288. Koa Smith: You're Facing Your Fear the Wrong Way. A Top Big-Wave Surfer's Method

You think some people are just born without fear, but my guest Koa Smith has spent 15 years paddling into waves big enough to kill him, and he'll tell you the opposite: fear never leaves, the whole game is what you do when it shows up. After a reef injury knocked him unconscious underwater and left him eight months numb, depressed, and unable to get a straight answer from a doctor, he clawed his way back with forest time, breathwork, meditation, clean food, and real sleep instead of a prescription. This isn't really a surfing video, it's about the same fear that keeps you from a hard conversation, a new business, or a decision you've been avoiding, and how getting clear lets you finally see through it. CLICK HERE TO BECOME GARY’S VIP!: https://bit.ly/4ai0Xwg Connect with Koa Smith Website: https://bit.ly/4pwKtZ0 YouTube: https://bit.ly/4gJxZLf Instagram: https://bit.ly/3RoFYTt Facebook: https://bit.ly/3TJhk0C TikTok: https://bit.ly/45eUzUQ Thank you to our partners A-GAME: “ULTIMATE15” FOR 15% OFF: http://bit.ly/4kek1ij AION: “ULTIMATE10” FOR 10% OFF: https://bit.ly/4h6KHAD AIRES: "ULTIMATE20 " FOR 20% OFF: https://bit.ly/4a3Duze BAJA GOLD: "ULTIMATE10" FOR 10% OFF: https://bit.ly/3WSBqUa BODYHEALTH: “ULTIMATE20” FOR 20% OFF: http://bit.ly/4e5IjsV COLD LIFE: THE ULTIMATE HUMAN PLUNGE: https://bit.ly/4eULUKp CYMBIOTIKA: "ULTIMATE10" FOR 10% OFF: https://bit.ly/4tjyluP GENETIC METHYLATION TEST (UK ONLY): https://bit.ly/48QJJrk GENETIC TEST (USA ONLY): ⁠https://bit.ly/3Yg1Uk9 GOPUFF: GET YOUR FAVORITE SNACK!: https://bit.ly/4obIFDC H2TAB: “ULTIMATE10” FOR 10% OFF: https://bit.ly/4hMNdgg HEALF: 10% OFF YOUR ORDER: https://bit.ly/41HJg6S PEPTUAL: “TUH10” FOR 10% OFF: https://bit.ly/4mKxgcn SNOOZE: LET’S GET TO SLEEP!: https://bit.ly/4pt1T6V WHOOP: JOIN & GET 1 FREE MONTH!: https://bit.ly/3VQ0nzW Watch the “Ultimate Human Podcast” every Tuesday & Thursday at 9AM EST: YouTube: https://bit.ly/3RPQYX8 Podcasts: https://bit.ly/3RQftU0 Connect with Gary Brecka Instagram: https://bit.ly/3RPpnFs TikTok: https://bit.ly/4coJ8foX: https://bit.ly/3Opc8tf Facebook: https://bit.ly/464VA1H LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/4hH7Ri2 Website: https://bit.ly/4eLDbdU Merch: https://bit.ly/4aBpOM1 Newsletter: https://bit.ly/47ejrws Ask Gary: https://bit.ly/3PEAJuG Timestamps 00:00 - Intro of Show 01:16 - Meet Koa Smith: surfer and abundance advocate 03:44 - Learning to manage the fear of the ocean 06:23 - Feeling good as the key to seeing through fear 07:33 - Wim Hof breathing, ice baths, and the early days 08:51 - Transcendental and Joe Dispenza meditation 10:02 - What meditation actually is (and busy minds) 11:57 - Surfacing buried memories and energetic blockages 13:45 - Learning to hear your own voice 16:37 - The traumatic brain injury on the reef 17:15 - Waking up underwater to violin music 21:07 - Depression, double vision, and numbness set in 22:23 - Doctors refuse the brain scan 23:18 - Forest bathing as the number one tool 25:00 - Slippery thoughts and the darkest moment 26:16 - Antidepressants vs. his gut instinct 27:06 - Fantastic Fungi and the mushroom decision 33:00 - The forest experience and its instructions 37:17 - The reset that healed the injury 46:26 - Why meditation beats going deeper too often 48:01 - Pear-xanthine and getting off stimulants 52:16 - Building the cafe and drink brands 56:32 - Where to find Koa 58:03 - What it means to be an ultimate human Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational purposes only and does not provide medical advice. It is not intended for diagnosing or treating any health condition. Always consult a licensed healthcare professional before making health or wellness decisions. Gary Brecka is the owner of Ultimate Human, LLC which operates The Ultimate Human podcast and promotes certain third-party products used by Gary Brecka in his personal health and wellness protocols and daily life and for which Ultimate Human LLC and / or Gary Brecka directly or indirectly holds an economic interest or receives compensation. Accordingly, statements made by Gary Brecka and others (including on The Ultimate Human podcast) may be considered promotional in nature. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Facing your fear is the interesting thing. And it's funny because in surfing, it comes in waves. Even though I have surfing and I've tested my fear, you have to show up and face it every time it arises.

• 0:13Speaker 01

  For 15 years, you've been walking into waves that could kill you. And the one thing we know about fear is it narrows your ability to make decisions, which would put you at greater risk. But I've never met somebody who meditates regularly, who hasn't told me that it changed their life.

• 0:27Speaker 00

  Meditation is the practice of becoming aware and strengthening that muscle in your mind. All of a sudden, and you feel so connected, all of a sudden like fear doesn't really exist.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  I know so many people that I hold in such high regard, like meditation, that have had life-changing experiences with psychedelics.

• 0:43Speaker 00

  Psychedelics are there, and it's a very powerful tool if you need it. But also, you can get there through meditation, but it takes a lot more surrendering, letting go, dealing with your stuff. And then you can get there.

• 0:55Speaker 01

  Describe the transcendental meditation. What does that look like? When do you do it? How do you do it?

• 0:59Speaker 00

  One mechanism that I had that was really interesting, I called it.

• 1:16Speaker 01

  Hey, guys. Welcome back to the Ultimate Human Podcast. I'm your host, human biologist Gary Brecka, where we go down the road of everything, anti-aging, biohacking, longevity, and everything in between. And today's guest is kind of one of those in-betweens that I think you're going to get a lot out of. As I was doing the guest research on today's guest, I really found it fascinating. So listen to this introduction. He's considered a professional surfer, storyteller, an entrepreneur, and an abundance advocate. So that one caught my attention, abundance advocate, because abundance is missing from the mindset of most of us that have a scarcity mentality. So I'm really excited to run the podcast with you today. Welcome to the Ultimate Human, Colesmith.

• 1:56Speaker 00

  Thank you for having me. Thank you so much. Thank you.

• 1:59Speaker 01

  You know, I could go through like the accolades so that people would be like, well, why should I listen to this guy? Three-time NSA national champion. I mean, it's unbelievable. Best barrel 2014 surfer pole. An Argo winner of the GoPro of the world. Perfect 30-point ride. Win then a 25-point backup in the 2024 Vanspipe Masters not that long ago. Two-time Eddie, am I saying this right? A COW invitee?

• 2:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's like a big wave event. Really intense, like.

• 2:29Speaker 01

  And then ABC's The Ultimate Surfer, which there may be some copyright infringement with The Ultimate Human. We'll find out later.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  But The Ultimate Surfer. But what I'm most fascinated about is, you know, this theme that runs through a lot of my podcast guests, and it's definitely present in you. And I feel like the most impactful people, the most passionate, purposeful people, have solved some kind of problem in their life. And I want to get into your traumatic brain injury and how you healed from that. But for 15 years, you've been walking into waves that could kill you. And so fear has got to be something that was very present in your career. I think about UFC fighters, boxers, professional athletes,

• 3:24Speaker 01

  surfers, just everyday, everyday human beings that are just gripped by fear. And the one thing we know about fear is it narrows your ability to make decisions, which would put you at greater risk. So I'd love to start there on your journey. Like, how did you learn to manage the fear of the ocean?

• 3:45Speaker 00

  I mean, fear is such an interesting one that we all walk around carrying, right? Like, even, even though I have surfing and I've tested my fear, you have to show up and face it every time it arises, right? Just because I did it, you know, yesterday, doesn't mean I have a free pass on it today. And I think that's something that's really prevalent with surfing. The beautiful thing about surfing is you start slow. You start small, right? I started surfing when I was three years old. To me, dropping in on a wave knee-high, that was scary. But you do that, and then you kind of, you learn that it's okay. You start learning the ocean. You start being able to identify what's dangerous and not dangerous.

• 4:31Speaker 00

  And essentially, you just keep exploring that until you are surfing waves that are absolutely ginormous. And, you know, facing your fear is the interesting thing. It's like you literally, when you feel that, and it's funny because in surfing, it comes in, it comes in waves.

• 4:50Speaker 01

  No pun intended.

• 4:51Speaker 00

  Comes in waves.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:53Speaker 00

  And when that wave comes, are you gonna shrink? Or are you gonna expand and trust and go? And it, what's the feeling after? Like, if you shrunk and you didn't go and you were safe, how do you feel after that? Not super good.

• 5:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:17Speaker 00

  You don't know what could have happened back there. You could have got the wave of your life.

• 5:22Speaker 00

  You could have experienced something amazing. Yes, you could have gotten injured too. But in my experiences, life takes you down that road. And if you do get injured, that's, that's your path that becomes your teacher, you know?

• 5:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. So what are some of the practices that you deploy to kind of channel that fear? I know you're a big fan of breath work, visualization, presence training, cold exposure. Like, how have you woven those into your professional and maybe even your non-professional career over the years to help you stay focused and manage that fear? Because I think it's applicable not just to people that are facing the fear of death, but like fear of starting a business, the fear of maybe not raising their kids right, the fear of starting a new relationship. I mean, it's, it's something that all human beings grapple with. And the less we face it and embrace it or, or learn to cope with it,

• 6:20Speaker 01

  you know, the more it, it rules our life.

• 6:23Speaker 00

  I'll say that the better I feel, the clearer I am, the easier it is to face and see through that fear. If I'm not feeling good, if I didn't sleep very good, or I'm anxious, or over-caffeinated, or I ate shitty, then sometimes that fear just engulfs me and I, and I can't see through it. So the better I'm taking care of myself, my flow nowadays is like, it involves a lot of meditation. It involves a lot of sleep. Like, my diet is like, it's very clean. That's the baseline.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 7:01Speaker 00

  Every day, there's these moments that I feel fear, even if it's just like telling someone they're, they're whatever. Thank you for whatever.

• 7:13Speaker 01

  Right.

• 7:13Speaker 00

  Talking to a stranger, approaching someone, telling them like, if I am constantly practicing overcoming those little moments of fear, then when that bigger moment of fear comes, I'm more comfortable with it.

• 7:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. So has, so breath work and meditation are those like daily practices of yours?

• 7:33Speaker 00

  Yeah. I was super into Wim Hof breathing for like 15 years ago, maybe?

• 7:39Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 7:40Speaker 00

  Like ice baths, Wim Hof, like.

• 7:42Speaker 01

  Damn, you're like, you're like the OG of it. I've been into it for six years and it's changed my life.

• 7:46Speaker 00

  Me, me and my brothers were like, always kind of, I don't want to say like on the, yeah, maybe on the forefront of like saunas, ice baths. I mean, I grew up on Koa, Laird Hamilton is a nearby neighbor. So you kind of hear through the grapevine that Laird's doing this thing.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. He's getting cold water, dude.

• 8:08Speaker 00

  He's strapping weights to himself and swimming in the river. Like, or like, he's, he's putting butter in his coffee? No way. So I don't know. I feel like it kind of trickled down from the Laird god and you kind of hear these things and you start applying them. And then you start feeling it. And so, yeah, breath work. I mean, for me now, it's more on the meditation side.

• 8:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:33Speaker 00

  I learned transcendental meditation when I was 17. Went down that path for a little bit. And then the last like three years of my, three or four years, I've been deep into Joe Dispenza's meditation work.

• 8:47Speaker 01

  Huge fan.

• 8:48Speaker 00

  Yeah. And you just, I don't know, like. You just feel so powerful and so good. When you feel all that energy in your body and your heart's like exploding all of a sudden and you feel so connected, all of a sudden like, I don't know, like fear doesn't really exist.

• 9:08Speaker 01

  You know, you know, I've, I've, um, I have dabbled in the, I'm definitely an avid breathwork person every, every day of my life. I don't think I've missed breathwork in probably four years, every, every day. It's a consistent part of my morning routine. It's a consistent part of my nighttime routine. Um, but I haven't been deep down the rabbit hole of meditation, but I've never met somebody who meditates regularly, who hasn't told me that it changed their life. Everyone, I mean, um, you know, that, that, I mean, some people that I hold in very, very high regard have said meditation was the switch that changed everything. So for someone that's not familiar with meditating, I think they think it's like, close your

• 9:49Speaker 01

  eyes and imagine a beach, or put yourself in a happy place. But, um, describe like the transcendental meditation or, or the Wim Hof meditation. What does that look like? When do you do it? How do you do it?

• 10:02Speaker 00

  Yeah. So I feel like breathwork is obviously, I mean, is also a meditation. I feel like I recommend breathwork for people that have a really busy mind. That's what people say, I can't meditate, my mind's so crazy. And, and literally meditation is the practice of becoming aware and strengthening that muscle in your mind, right? So when you're meditating, say transcendental meditation that gives you a mantra, or Joe Dispenza's meditation, he's walking you through different focal points, whether that's focusing on your heart, focusing on the space around your body. And you, you need to catch yourself

• 10:43Speaker 00

  when you're not focusing on the mantra or the focus point. So you can be meditating for 20 minutes, but if you're down the rabbit hole of your to-do list, and oh, I can't believe that person said that. And the next thing you know, you're like, oh my God, the meditation's over. Great. Great meditation. But if you can catch yourself and notice when you're not focusing on what your task is, and bring yourself back to that task, every time you bring yourself back to that task, it gets more intense. So you're, you're learning how to concentrate your energy and your ability to focus in the present moment.

• 11:26Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 11:26Speaker 00

  And with that comes like, just a lot of really good feelings. But also, what I've noticed in some of my deeper meditation is all of a sudden, that thought that comes to you is something that has been holding you back. So at first it's like, oh yeah, I forgot, I gotta do that tomorrow. And you bring yourself back and then, oh, and then all of a sudden your body is like, oh, this isn't working. We gotta, we gotta call in the big guns, you know? And it's like,

• 11:57Speaker 01

  We gotta tell the truth.

• 11:58Speaker 00

  You remember that one time your dad said this to you when you were six?

• 12:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:03Speaker 00

  And you're like, holy shit, I haven't thought about that in a really long time. And then you're like, oh my God, that really affected me. And all of a sudden you're like thinking about it and you're in this, you're, and for me, it's visual, like I'm there and I'm feeling it. I'm like, I'm getting chicken skin right now. But in that moment, all of a sudden you're able to see it from your perspective now. You're revisiting that moment. And maybe you can see his side of the story and you can see your side of the story. And then if you can like, forgive it and, and dissolve it,

• 12:40Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 12:41Speaker 00

  Then all of a sudden that just healed this huge energetic blockage that has been holding you back your whole life. And you haven't known about it because you're so caught up. And then every time you like free those blockages, all of a sudden you have access to more presence. And when you're living your life throughout the day, essentially the meditation never ends. Because when you're walking, you're noticing, oh, am I thinking about something or am I actually walking? Am I here in the present moment?

• 13:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:13Speaker 00

  You start feeling like, oh, I actually don't like doing what I do, or something like that. And you're like, wow, maybe I should think about that, or I should go for a run, or I should stop eating processed foods, or whatever, right? So, I mean, that was kind of a long-winded answer of, I feel like meditation is strengthening that muscle of like, realizing that you are free and you can do whatever you want. But you have to like, be aware of what you want.

• 13:45Speaker 01

  So many people, like I said, that I hold in such high regard that describe the very exact same, um, experience. And Will Ahmed, who's the CEO of Whoop, was one of the guys that told me, you know, here he is, he's built a multi-billion dollar company, you know, from zero to 10 billion in valuation and had this massive impact on allowing people to have, you know, control of their health data. And, and a lot of what he conceptualizes, he does through, through meditation. And then after talking to Will, I've talked to dozens of other people about, you know, the, just the, the impact that it's had on changing the trajectory of their life, similar to what you're saying. Like, we drown out the

• 14:28Speaker 01

  voices that we need to hear, um, and we don't listen to the voices that we should. And that was their best way of describing meditation to me because you actually eventually learned to hear the voices that you should hear, because it's your own voice. Listen, there's what I share on this podcast, and then there's what I share with my inner circle. If you've been following me for a while, you know how I hold nothing back here. But my VIP community, that's where the real magic happens. Picture this, you're struggling with energy crashes, brain fog, or just feeling like you're not operating at your peak, and you don't know where to get real answers. But here's what really sets this apart. You're not just getting my insights. When I have incredible guests on the podcast, VIP members

• 15:09Speaker 01

  get to submit questions for our private podcast segment. So that world-renowned expert we just interviewed, you get exclusive access to their knowledge tailored to your specific situation. This section is under the private podcast section in the Ultimate Human Community. And speaking of exclusive, you're getting my personal protocols, the exact tools I use for water fasting, gut optimization, and morning routines that have taken me decades to perfect. This isn't theory. This is what works in the real world. The community launches challenges throughout the year where you get direct access to me and my network of experts. It's like having a personal health advisory board for less than a hundred dollars a month. Your health is your wealth, and this investment pays dividends for life. Join the VIP community at theultimatehuman.com/vip and step into your ultimate potential.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  Now let's get back to the Ultimate Human Podcast.

• 15:57Speaker 00

  Yeah. And then once that, once you become best friends with your own voice,

• 16:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:02Speaker 00

  then like, what?

• 16:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:04Speaker 00

  Cause then you're like, oh, I'm not, like, I really want to do this. I know I should do this. I'm sure you've felt that with,

• 16:11Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 16:12Speaker 00

  growing these businesses, talking to these people, reaching out, these things you know you should do. But then all of a sudden you're like, I'm not ready. I'm, and you're like, what? I noticed that that's holding me back. So actually, I'm gonna do it. And then when you do it, that voice gets louder. And all of a sudden you, you like have this guide. All you have to do is follow it.

• 16:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:36Speaker 00

  It's interesting.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  Let's, let's go back to that moment where you had, um, the traumatic brain injury, which was, um, from a reef, as I understand it, uh, hazards of the job. Um, and I don't profess to know a lot about professional surfing, but I have, uh, you know, watched documentaries and I've admired it from afar. And I know that sometimes when those waves draw back, they seem to be crashing into relatively shallow water. Um, and so, you know, if you, if you were taken over by a wave, I mean, you're just literally being pile driven into solid rock, basically.

• 17:14Speaker 00

  Potentially.

• 17:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, it's like falling off a balcony.

• 17:17Speaker 00

  Well, yeah, what creates a good wave is like, you know, open ocean deep water going to shallower water. And there's these different shaped reefs around the world that create like these legendary waves, right? So that is a risk. And, um, my, um, my brain injury was my, my greatest teacher, absolutely. And actually, before that, I had a head injury where I got ran over by a jet ski. It wasn't going super fast, but I still got ran over by a jet ski. And that was like, my first concussion experience. Like 30 minutes later,

• 17:55Speaker 00

  all of a sudden like, um, I couldn't see out of my right eye. Um, um, my, my, something started happening in my pocket and I realized my phone was ringing. And my brother, who was sitting next to me, accidentally pocket dialed me. And I like looked at the phone and I saw his name and I was like, Alex Smith? Like, Who is that? Who could that be? No, like, just no idea what was going on and similar to like a really wild psychedelic experience too, which I could relate to.

• 18:34Speaker 00

  Um, so that was my first concussion experience and I, I realized then and there that like, when you're in that state freaking out, doesn't help.

• 18:45Speaker 01

  Right.

• 18:46Speaker 00

  You know, like, there's kind of only-

• 18:48Speaker 01

  Even though that's the go-to for most of us.

• 18:50Speaker 00

  The only thing you can do is tell yourself you're gonna be okay, stay present and just let it, hopefully it passes, right? Cause it's, it's completely scary, everything you've ever known or just have experienced, all of a sudden is different. And you're just like, huh, mom, help.

• 19:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 19:08Speaker 00

  You know, so, so, um, two years after that, or maybe three years, rough timeline, um, I ended up hitting my head on the reef and I got another concussion, so-

• 19:19Speaker 01

  But you got knocked fully unconscious, right?

• 19:21Speaker 00

  I did, yeah.

• 19:22Speaker 01

  In the water, that's super dangerous.

• 19:23Speaker 00

  For sure. Um, yeah, I came to underwater, which was interesting. Um, I had like, I mean, could have been a near-death experience, you know? One of those moments where, um, I, I hit something. Like I pulled into this barrel, I was too deep, I got launched and I hit something and all it felt like was just like a, a ragdoll shake, like a

• 19:51Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 19:52Speaker 00

  And all of a sudden, everything was blue and I could hear the most peaceful violin music ever. I still remember the song, it was just like-

• 20:02Speaker 01

  No way.

• 20:03Speaker 00

  The most calming, beautiful violin music. And then all of a sudden, I, I felt the ragdoll again. And I was like, oh, like, where am I? Oh, I'm underwater, oh shit, don't blackout, don't blackout, don't blackout. And then got to the surface and luckily there wasn't another wave, so I was able to grab my board and paddle over. Um, and I like, there was a water photographer, I was like, I think I hit my board and I like looked over and there was just like coral reef scratch on my whole arm, whole back, whole back of my head. But I did have a huge dent on my board, so I maybe hit my head on my board, knocked out.

• 20:45Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 20:46Speaker 00

  Hit my head on the reef and then came back. That's kind of maybe the theory.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 20:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, so that experience was, um, really interesting. Cause it, right after that, it, it came, came back to what I experienced of kind of like forgetting what you're doing, where you are, and I was like, just trying to get in.

• 21:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, you said like double faces, even depression set in.

• 21:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  Like something you hadn't grappled with before, cause you don't seem like you would ever be a depressed person.

• 21:16Speaker 00

  After, I mean, that, that was a big lesson for me because I'm a professional surfer, surf big waves, like I don't have to talk, I can just do it, I can go out, I don't have to prove anything to anyone, I can just go out and I can surf. And all my hard work, all, everything shines through, this is my expression. Take that expression away from you, then who are you?

• 21:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:38Speaker 00

  How do you find that connection, how do you find that feeling if you don't have that outlet anymore?

• 21:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:45Speaker 00

  And also, um, not having the right support medically, um, not being able to, there was no path for me, it was, I, I had a hard time getting a brain scan, cause they were like, we, we don't want you to see that, that nothing's there and then you'll start surfing again and you could really hurt yourself, so no brain scan for you, just cruise and, and heal, basically.

• 22:13Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 22:14Speaker 00

  And after like eight months of that, I was like, do I have a brain tumor? Because something's happening and I don't know what it is.

• 22:23Speaker 01

  What were the symptoms of that, like, I know you're talking about double faces and like depressive-like symptoms, but?

• 22:29Speaker 00

  Um, noise was a huge one for me.

• 22:33Speaker 01

  Super sensitive?

• 22:34Speaker 00

  Super sensitive noise, crazy headaches, um,

• 22:40Speaker 00

  stress was not, like, I would, I would get so stressed out that I could feel my head was so hot, that it felt like it was just like an engine gonna explode. So if something was stressing me out, it was just like, the level, maybe I couldn't, I couldn't handle this stress or something, there was no like, um, regulating it.

• 23:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:02Speaker 00

  But the things that helped me was, the number one thing that helped me was the forest.

• 23:07Speaker 01

  Really?

• 23:08Speaker 00

  I would bring a hammock and a journal and a book and I'd just fuck off and go in the forest for like eight hours some days.

• 23:14Speaker 01

  No kidding.

• 23:15Speaker 00

  And I felt so good.

• 23:18Speaker 01

  Really?

• 23:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was really interesting.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  You know what's interesting is like, eastern medicine has been prescribing forest bathing for centuries. You know, that's a, that's a huge thing in, in eastern medicine, um, is forest bathing.

• 23:32Speaker 00

  I mean, I still do it to this day, it's like one of my favorite tools.

• 23:36Speaker 01

  How'd you figure out the beach to the ocean? Or was it just, you just wanted to get away from everything, you sort of accidentally realized that me just trying to get away from all of this cacophony of modern society, I just went hug a hammock between two trees and grab the book and then all of a sudden I started to feel better?

• 23:53Speaker 00

  Um, I, I mean, maybe a little bit for sure, like trying to get away and just find peace. Um, like, especially with your phone, like there's so much distraction, like distraction-

• 24:03Speaker 01

  This is Hawaii, right?

• 24:04Speaker 00

  Would break my brain, yeah.

• 24:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, so you got like the best of the coast and the best of the forest, I mean, it's just such a cool ecosystem for that.

• 24:11Speaker 00

  Um, I grew up bow hunting. And on Hawaii, when I was really young, I started bow hunting when I was 12 years old, it was crazy.

• 24:17Speaker 01

  That's cool.

• 24:18Speaker 00

  Um, but I think the things that I felt when I was out hunting, like that deep, deep connection where you're like, you hear everything and all of a sudden you just see the, the light beams through the trees and the fog and the animals and stuff like that. I think I, I knew that, I knew how powerful that was and how it made me feel. So maybe that's where I was like, I need to go back there, that kind of thing.

• 24:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, so the forest bathing, which is what it's called, um, that's when you felt the best?

• 24:52Speaker 00

  That's when I felt the best, yeah, but it was, it was helping, but it wasn't solving. And I think I kind of got to a point where, um, I started feeling like a deep numbness, which was really interesting, like, my family, you'll meet them one day, they're so beautiful, so positive, happy, supportive.

• 25:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:13Speaker 00

  Um, at the time, I was in a, a healthy relationship, like I had love around me, but I couldn't feel, I couldn't feel it, I couldn't feel happiness, I couldn't, I almost couldn't even feel sadness. Like I just had this like numbness over me and, um, one mechanism that I had that was really interesting, maybe you could help explain this, but I called it like slippery thoughts. So like I'd have a thought and it would just play and play and play and play and play and go

• 25:48Speaker 00

  and then it would get like so gnarly that my head would get hot and like I, I couldn't get out of it.

• 25:54Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 25:55Speaker 00

  And some of those thoughts were about like stressful things in my life. But at this time, some of those thoughts would be like, end your life. You could just do it, you can just end your life right now, that would solve it, it would solve some things, you know, and the

• 26:11Speaker 00

  and I was just like, oh my gosh, like, I need help.

• 26:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 26:16Speaker 00

  Like, okay, um, and that's, I went to a, um, I went to a therapist, she said, oh, I, I got you. Here's some, here's some antidepressants.

• 26:27Speaker 01

  Ah, classic.

• 26:28Speaker 00

  Take these.

• 26:29Speaker 01

  Love it.

• 26:29Speaker 00

  Take them.

• 26:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:30Speaker 00

  Come on, take them.

• 26:33Speaker 00

  Take them right now.

• 26:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:34Speaker 00

  Um, but I always had such a deep connection to, to nature and to, I don't know, I just knew that that was not the thing and I had some light experiences with psychedelics before in my life and I always knew that, like the insights they gave me, that if I ever really needed it, I feel like I could use them as a source of, of, of healing or understanding.

• 27:00Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:01Speaker 00

  At the same time, it was when, uh, have you seen that movie Fantastic Fungi by Paul Stanis?

• 27:06Speaker 01

  Yes, dude, wild.

• 27:08Speaker 00

  That movie is so sick.

• 27:10Speaker 01

  Where it's spreading across the forest floor and it talks about the communication-

• 27:12Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 27:13Speaker 01

  Between them and the intelligence of this thing is, as, as really just being a very intelligent life force. It completely reframed my, my viewpoint on psychedelics and just, and just fungi and mushrooms in general.

• 27:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, that mycelium network is able to like communicate, like let the trees communicate through it and also-

• 27:35Speaker 01

  For miles.

• 27:36Speaker 00

  Share nutrients through it.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:38Speaker 00

  The big trees sharing nutrients to the little trees, just trippy, so as I was going through this-

• 27:44Speaker 01

  By the way, I'm gonna put a link to that in the show notes, cause it was-

• 27:47Speaker 00

  That's a life changer.

• 27:47Speaker 01

  Super off-topic, but it was a great, yeah, that was an incredible-

• 27:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, you'll see how it connects in, in there, he talks about, he had a stuttering issue and he did a large dose of, uh, psilocybin.

• 27:58Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:59Speaker 00

  He got stuck in a storm, it's a crazy story, um, he was never able to, uh, talk to girls before, he'd get really nervous and stutter. Um, he, he went home, or while he was in the storm, he was saying like, I need to stop stuttering, I need to stop stuttering, I need to stop stuttering, need to stop stuttering, just return, like repeating it, repeating it. Went home, went to sleep. Next day, he's walking down the street. Beautiful girl walks by and he goes, "Hey, how you doing today? I'm Paul." And from then on, he never stuttered again in his life.

• 28:31Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 28:32Speaker 00

  So I heard that and that came out like literally the day after I was prescribed antidepressants. And a light bulb just went bing. It's like, oh, that's what I need to do, you know?

• 28:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's so serendipitous.

• 28:46Speaker 00

  Yeah. So I ended up going into the, deep in the forest. There's a place where I'm from where you can hike in and camp like totally off the grid. No service. You gotta bring everything on your back. And it's like really that primal life of, of going back to our ancients where we're like, you're going to get your food, you know? You're swimming in the water. You're, I mean, we weren't like eating from the land. We were eating tuna fish sandwiches.

• 29:13Speaker 01

  Right, right. From a can. Bumblebee tuna. I don't, I don't hold that against you, brother. I mean, none of us is bear girls, you know? Where you're like, all you need is a buck, buck knife and some toothpaste. I mean, some floss and you can like kill a bear and, you know?

• 29:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, for sure.

• 29:29Speaker 01

  But, even though that would be so cool to actually really be able to live off the land, like truly be able to take like five items and go into some terrain and live for a month.

• 29:41Speaker 00

  I mean, you figured out all this. You can figure out that.

• 29:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 29:44Speaker 00

  I think you'll be okay. Sleep will just be landing and you'll laugh, you know?

• 29:48Speaker 01

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• 30:30Speaker 01

  Visit theultimate snooze.com and use code ULTIMATE for 10% off. Now let's get to sleep. Now let's get back to the Ultimate Human Podcast. So, so you go into this place and you know, thank God for, you know, like Joe Rogan and, and, and some of these guys like DJ Shipley and some of these Navy SEALs and these foundations that have really started to, to, to bring psychedelics, you know, into the mainstream. Cause I think everybody thinks about psychedelics as just going and tripping your balls off or Burning Man or partying. But the truth is that, I mean, they have real physiologic impact on our brain's ability to heal and our, and their ability to take us out of the present

• 31:10Speaker 01

  and put us into a dimension where we can independently and truthfully evaluate ourselves. I, I've never done it, but I've studied it and it seems like what it does is it removes your ego. Like all those protective mechanisms that you have around yourself that say why you shouldn't do something or why you should do something or, or why you're not good at something or why you're gonna fail at something. It, but it also puts a bright light on who you really are. And it like helps you take ownership of the things that are beautiful in your life and also the things that are not so beautiful in your life.

• 31:51Speaker 01

  And, you know, I had a major shift in my life when I realized how damaging my, my ego was and stopped caring about being wealthy and I started caring about people's wellbeing. And then as a consequence, became wealthy, which was kind of odd. But, um, uh, I want to hear about this because I, I think psychedelics are becoming more, it's such a timely podcast because they're coming more into the mainstream. Trump just signed the executive order to accelerate the testing on it. And, and like I was telling you on the balcony, man, I know so many people that I hold in such high regard, like meditation, that have had life-changing experiences with psychedelics. So you're in this depressive state.

• 32:33Speaker 01

  You don't feel a connection to the people that are around you. You know, you have a good relationship with your girlfriend. You've got a great family around you.

• 32:42Speaker 00

  I really forgot who I was.

• 32:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:44Speaker 00

  I was in the, I was in this state for so long of, of just like survival mode that I forgot who I was. And I think that was a big, a thing, big thing. But, so the intention was to go up the valley. We were sitting in this most beautiful pond, me and my brother, we were naked in the sun. And we took about maybe like three grams of mushrooms, which is not like a heroic dose, like five grams, but it's, it's

• 33:14Speaker 01

  Rogue dose?

• 33:15Speaker 00

  It's, it's enough, you know? It's enough.

• 33:18Speaker 01

  Like hero's dose.

• 33:19Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, that's what they call it. A hero's dose. Cause you gotta be a hero to really let go all of that and go in.

• 33:27Speaker 01

  You were a little soft that day, but that's okay.

• 33:31Speaker 00

  But, so I was, I was doing Wim Hof breathing. I was just calling it on and it can be, it's, it's intimidating, you know? Cause you're taking something.

• 33:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:40Speaker 00

  And it's taking you and making you feel, it's the unknown. It's an unknown tsunami. You don't know what's gonna happen and you're not driving the ship, you know? So you have to be very okay and, and very like, just surrender, surrender, surrender, surrender. And I was just like Wim Hoffing, bringing it in, welcoming it, you know?

• 34:08Speaker 00

  And all of a sudden, I mean, I don't know how deep you want to go into it.

• 34:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, let's go.

• 34:15Speaker 00

  Okay, yeah.

• 34:16Speaker 01

  My audience wants to hear it.

• 34:17Speaker 00

  I remember like, um, I, um, I don't know if you've gone like to an indigenous place before, but like Fiji, for an example. When you go to a place, a village or whatever, they, they hold a ceremony for you, you know? They, they sing, they dance, they share their food, they share their, um, in that situation, their kava or their ava. And they like, they have this ceremonial celebration, sharing with you their culture, right? And as these, um, as the psilocybin started to hit, it was just like this beautiful ceremony of like,

• 34:58Speaker 00

  beautiful colors, and my eyes are closed here, beautiful colors, beautiful like, almost like beautiful women, like kind of coming in, like slowly entering my system. Okay? And then as it got more and more intense, all of a sudden I was in this landscape of, it was almost like, this is just gonna, this is gonna sound, we're talking about psychedelic treatment.

• 35:24Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah, yeah.

• 35:26Speaker 00

  Let me just be very clear.

• 35:28Speaker 01

  It's a judgment free zone, brother. So, the judgment curtain's lifted.

• 35:32Speaker 00

  So, um, all of a sudden I'm on this, this, my eyes are closed and I'm, I'm on this, um, there's this landscape of like the Egyptian pyramids, okay? In the distance. And I'm kind of like up here on the top of one of these pyramids and I look beside me and there's a bench right there. And two of these large light beings, like they just looked like the sun. They're just boom, here, appeared next to me. And in a voice that was very vibrational, said, "Sit down. Sit down." Like demanding. It's like, oh, fuck, okay. And sit down.

• 36:12Speaker 00

  And it, it ended up taking me back to my childhood, who I was when I was five years old. That, that like joyous, just so excited about life, surfing, hanging with my friends, just so in love with life. And it reminded me in a voice that was pretty intense, like Koa, like this is who you were. You're a good person. You're here to do good things. Like, um, you are loved. You are just and it started getting so intense. You know what to do. You have all the tools. You just gotta apply them.

• 36:55Speaker 00

  And all of a sudden there was like this explosion in my heart.

• 36:59Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 36:59Speaker 00

  My heart just went boom. And that sensation went throughout my whole body and I could feel again. So that numbness of not being able to feel any of those emotions just bathed my, and went through my, exploded through my whole body.

• 37:17Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 37:18Speaker 00

  And after that experience, it was very, it gave me very clear instructions in which I followed that healed my head injury. So the instructions were like, your diet. There's no, no room for cheating.

• 37:43Speaker 00

  Caffeine, like no caffeine, no, no stimulants. So, nothing that's gonna affect your natural energy levels. Cause you are on a healing path. You need to know where your baseline is and you need to slowly, slowly grow that baseline. What I found with my head injury is it wasn't like a knee injury where you can kind of feel your knee and be like, I could do a squat, you know? That doesn't hurt that bad. But the head injury, um, you don't really know, like some days you feel good. You'll go for a run and then at the end of the run, you're like, oh shit, I went way too far. And you're in your bed for the next week.

• 38:22Speaker 00

  So, yeah, it was like breath work, meditation, journaling, ocean time, forest time, um, very clean diet, sleep, like, don't do anything that you don't want to do. Like, don't go to the barbecue because you're invited. Like, take care of yourself and really like own your situation. So.

• 38:43Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 38:44Speaker 00

  I applied that.

• 38:45Speaker 01

  Such a metaphor for life, man. So many people think that self-care is selfish.

• 38:52Speaker 01

  You know, they develop something called caregiver syndrome, just constantly putting the needs of everybody else before the needs themselves. And one of them is, you know, socially, like, I know my friends will have a better time if I go out with them. So even though I don't want to go, I'm gonna go so they have a better time. It's like, you just sort of keep giving yourself away. It's like those, those, those, those withdrawals from the account without any deposits. So it's, I mean, that's really good advice and came from somewhere, um, but at the time that you needed it the most.

• 39:26Speaker 00

  For sure.

• 39:27Speaker 01

  So you just heeded it because this is such a surreal experience.

• 39:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, and, um, that like numbness and depression, um, disappeared. I never felt that again.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  That's so wild.

• 39:39Speaker 00

  And after that, I was, I was so happy, like, it was pretty crazy.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  Literally coming out of those woods that, with your brother.

• 39:46Speaker 00

  Hundred percent, hundred percent.

• 39:48Speaker 01

  Did your brother notice it right away too?

• 39:49Speaker 00

  Hundred percent.

• 39:50Speaker 01

  Dude, you're different.

• 39:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:52Speaker 00

  And I was just happy, I was inspired, I was reconnecting, reconnected with myself. Could have been a glitch, but when I went back to civilization, my face ID didn't recognize me. Could have been a glitch, I don't know, but we'll add that to the story.

• 40:07Speaker 01

  Wild.

• 40:08Speaker 00

  Um, and then I was surfing in the next, um, month and then I ended up, two months later, getting a crazy wave at Pipeline and I just had been healing ever since, following that journey.

• 40:20Speaker 01

  Was that the one where you put the GoPro camera in your mouth?

• 40:22Speaker 00

  Um, I mean, I do that, I do that a lot.

• 40:24Speaker 01

  But there was one like famous 29 second wave.

• 40:27Speaker 00

  No, that was in Namibia in South Africa.

• 40:30Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah.

• 40:31Speaker 00

  So, yeah.

• 40:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, I read about that.

• 40:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  That was wild.

• 40:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, and I think another one that's interesting is like, I was always asking people's opinion on how I can heal. What can I do, what can I not do? And then in the end, it was just like, just trust yourself, trust that voice and do it, you know? Cause people don't know what you're going through. I mean, obviously, if we're talking to you, and that helps for sure.

• 40:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:59Speaker 00

  There are so many people, like, if you ever hit your head again, you're gonna be a vegetable. Don't surf anymore.

• 41:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:04Speaker 00

  I'm just like, oh, what? Like, don't tell me that.

• 41:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. And that's probably framed a lot, in fact, that probably drove a lot of the depressive state that you have, cause basically what they said is, don't be who you are for the rest of your life.

• 41:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:19Speaker 01

  And I mean, when you sort of reframe that conversation, I mean, you take away what's actually given you so much life. And I don't mean from an egotistical standpoint where people are looking at you like, oh my God, look how great surfer you are, but just, you, you don't reach that level without having a love for what you're doing. And so, it's not what you do, it's who you are.

• 41:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:41Speaker 01

  So someone told you, you're not that person anymore.

• 41:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, then who am I? I don't, I thought I knew, but.

• 41:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:48Speaker 01

  Um, so you really credit that journey with a total pivot and change in direction in your life?

• 41:56Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 41:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:57Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 41:58Speaker 01

  That is, it, that is so analogous to so many stories that I hear. You know, I, I don't know that I've ever actually heard someone in a deep state of, of, of struggling with drug addiction and alcohol addiction, post-traumatic stress disorder, depression, anxiety, uh, ruminating thoughts that hasn't gone on a similar journey and had a just a profound experience is what you're saying.

• 42:24Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's such an amazing tool and, and to me, like, I've, I've, I've, um, since kind of went down that path of psychedelics, experiencing ayahuasca and like different, different psychedelics, because I was like, if that healed me, maybe this is my path of, you know, just experiment, experiencing these different experiences. And when you do these experiences, you just feel like you're like taking a vacation and just talking to the creator. And it feels so natural when you're doing it. It's just like.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  You weren't freaked out, you weren't scared, you weren't like, make this stop?

• 43:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, yes, potentially, you know, it's, it's not easy. Like, it shows you stuff that's disgusting and shows you stuff that's godly and beautiful, but in the end, it makes you feel like you're a part of this all.

• 43:20Speaker 01

  Hmm. That connection, like that we're all connected.

• 43:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, you realize that you're a part of it all.

• 43:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:27Speaker 00

  And I feel like that's one of the, the biggest things with humanity right now is they're not feeling the connection.

• 43:33Speaker 01

  Hmm, I totally agree with you.

• 43:35Speaker 00

  And they're so caught up in this right here and that the way they look, the, their job, how much money matter, you know, all, all of this, and they're not connected to the, what's beyond.

• 43:49Speaker 01

  Source.

• 43:49Speaker 00

  What's beyond, they're not connecting to source. And that can come to you in any religion, it can come to you in whatever you want to call it, but it's, it's there and if you just spend time connecting with it, your life gets a lot easier, because then all of a sudden you realize that it's all fucking good.

• 44:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:09Speaker 00

  And you can't really, like, it's, it's gonna be, it's gonna be alright.

• 44:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:13Speaker 00

  You know what I mean?

• 44:14Speaker 01

  And, yeah, you know, years ago, I, I had a vacation, I took my kids on an extreme vacation in Costa Rica and we did like.

• 44:20Speaker 00

  An extreme vacation?

• 44:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:21Speaker 00

  Oh, I like that.

• 44:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it was like 10 days. My, my sons loved it, my daughter hated it. Um, but, uh, we did like rappelling, whitewater rafting, canyoneering, uh, spelunking, you know, we, we did everything that was dangerous in Costa Rica for, for days. And, um, and I had a speaking engagement in Miami and, and, and I had to leave the jungle and, and fly back to Miami without, before the family left. And I landed and it was actually this hundred million dollar mastermind event at Live Nightclub during the day. I never forget, I woke up in the jungle on Costa Rica and at like five, six o'clock at night, I was walking into Live Nightclub and it felt so surreal, like, this is all just fake.

• 45:07Speaker 01

  This is just, this is a distraction.

• 45:10Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 45:11Speaker 01

  This is all meant to distract us. Like, I had one of those very weird, like, I wanted to get back to the jungle. Like, I wanted to go back so bad, just get back on the plane. And I remember that experience and I think, I guess that's as close as I've had to a psychedelic experience, but, um, I know what you mean when you look at the natural world and you've, and somehow you've reframed it from this experience. So you look at life completely differently after that. You know, I'm all about optimizing performance and lately I've been using the Ion weighted vest during my workouts and it's been a game changer. It isn't your average weighted vest, it's designed to fit like a second skin, activating your core, improving blood flow and even helping you with recovery while you train.

• 45:54Speaker 01

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• 46:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I think that's where like, I, I really enjoy meditation nowadays. People are like, oh, like you are a big mushroom guy, like, you probably just eat mushrooms all the time, like.

• 46:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:37Speaker 00

  We're like, let's go.

• 46:38Speaker 01

  Trip your way through life.

• 46:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, let's go eat some mushrooms. Like, I'm like, I'm like, no, you know? Like, if I'm doing it, I'm going all in and it's probably like, once every three years now.

• 46:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:51Speaker 00

  You know, but for me, meditation and going really deep takes me to that realm. But, like I said before, about like the insights you get, the insights become very clean and clear, where when you do psychedelics, it's a tool that like.

• 47:10Speaker 00

  If it, if you need it, it'll, it'll show you it. But if you can also get there and it's a lot more mellow with meditation. And like, you're driving the ship when you're meditating.

• 47:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 47:23Speaker 00

  Should I get, if stuff gets to me, oh, I'm back, you know?

• 47:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 47:27Speaker 00

  So I think that's an important engagement that I like to tell is like psychedelics are there. And it's a very powerful tool. If you need it, use it. But also there's, there's, you can get there through meditation, but it takes a lot more self-realization. A lot of facing yourself, a lot of surrendering, letting go, dealing with, with your stuff.

• 47:47Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 47:48Speaker 00

  And then you can get there.

• 47:50Speaker 01

  Break there.

• 47:50Speaker 00

  So.

• 47:51Speaker 01

  So, you know, getting rid of the stimulants, getting rid of the crappy food. Um, now you're on this journey, uh, with paraxanthine.

• 48:01Speaker 00

  Paraxanthine journey.

• 48:03Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, it's part of your journey, right?

• 48:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, for sure, for sure.

• 48:07Speaker 01

  And which is a caffeine metabolite. And I've, I've had some experience with it, um, before, but it's, it's, it actually gives the same kind of feeling as caffeine without chitters, without crashes. Was that because of this experience that you had where you're like, I'm going to get all of these stimulants out of my life?

• 48:30Speaker 01

  You know, fix my diet.

• 48:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think slightly like that's what started the path. But I think what you said about your experience coming back to reality from the jungle and realizing like all the distractions. I think nowadays we've been fed that we're just misled is, is what we've been. We can't trust like, oh, well, I thought this was good for you. Oh, that gives you cancer. Oh, I thought this was good for you. Nope, that doesn't help you at all.

• 48:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:57Speaker 00

  And I mean, being a professional surfer, like, I mean, it's kind of funny being a professional surfer. Like you gotta do what it takes to make money. And a lot of people are sponsored by Red Bull and Monster and like all these energy drinks. And I was sponsored by Celsius at the time. And then all of a sudden I realized I was like, I can't, I don't want to be a part of this anymore.

• 49:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:20Speaker 00

  Like, I don't want to, all the hard work I do, all the self-work I do and the training and the diet and all these sacrifices. I'm not going to be like, oh, and I drink Celsius and that's why I feel so good. So that was part of it. Why I, um, got introduced to Tiani. He saw one of my, um, my mud water documentaries where I talked about this whole experience. And he was, he wanted to start, um, like an electrolyte energy drink. So just to like.

• 49:52Speaker 01

  But a natural one.

• 49:53Speaker 00

  But a natural, exactly, with powered by paraxanthine to help people get the right energy. The energy that is going to make you feel connected and focused and clear, not just like.

• 50:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:10Speaker 00

  Which is fun sometimes, right?

• 50:11Speaker 01

  I've always hated like the pre-workouts, like C4 and the high, like, uh, Maowong and caffeine. And like the, the NO2 boosters. I mean, I took them years, years ago and like, um, coming out of college and like, I always felt terrible on them.

• 50:28Speaker 00

  Well, yeah, you're kind of like, is this, this is what successful people are taking?

• 50:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 50:33Speaker 00

  This is working for them?

• 50:34Speaker 01

  Succeed, yeah.

• 50:35Speaker 00

  But I think there's an age of, of truth and like being able to provide, I feel like paraxanthine is going to be like the future, right? It's like, when I take it, I feel so clear. I feel so motivated. And it helps me tap into that, like creative flow state more where other caffeine's will out jitter me. And then almost like I'm just anxious and afraid to do anything.

• 50:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 51:00Speaker 00

  So, yeah, it's, it's been a really fun journey and hearing the feedback of it, of getting people off of those crazy energy drinks. And realizing like, oh, I can actually tap into my own energy. And this makes me feel like so clear and so good.

• 51:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:15Speaker 00

  I mean, we're all here. We, we're playing the game. We have to make money somehow to fund this life. And if I can do it in a way that's like bringing good to humanity, that's the way I want to do it.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  I love it. So tell, tell me about your brand journeys now, um, that you're on. Cause I know, I know you've got a, you know, a lot of things going right now, but it's, it's nice to know the story that leads to the brands. Cause I think most people, you know, everybody's a capitalist at the end of the day, right? I mean, we have to fund our lifestyle, like you said.

• 51:48Speaker 00

  We need our hyperbaric chamber, you know, in our house.

• 51:55Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 51:55Speaker 00

  If we can get it from leading people to feeling better and more connected, then that's, that's.

• 51:59Speaker 01

  I think I've ever done a podcast like this.

• 52:01Speaker 00

  There we go.

• 52:02Speaker 01

  My team's like, you don't have shoes on, like you just killed the brand right there.

• 52:07Speaker 00

  Censor the toes, that's for the VIPs.

• 52:10Speaker 01

  My wife's going to be like, you did not just put your toes on the podcast. Like she's going to kill me.

• 52:15Speaker 00

  Oh my gosh. But yeah, I mean, it, like I said, with, with my brothers, we were kind of on the forefront of the, or we were healthy. We, we were watching our diet at a very young age and.

• 52:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, sunlight, you're exercising, you're, you're, you're breathing whether you want it or not. I mean, like, you know, when you're surfing, you're almost doing like a Wim Hof style of breathing anyway.

• 52:38Speaker 00

  We're all, we also live in Hawaii, which is like the most natural environment. We're surfing. We're so healthy. I think it really started hitting us when we started living in places, other places in California and this where our natural routine wasn't giving us all of this and we weren't feeling super strong and healthy and powerful. So then we had to start learning how, how to do it on the road, you know what I mean? But, um, one of the first endeavors, my brothers and I and, um, our good friend, Co Rothman started a little cafe on the North Shore of Oahu. Um, it was just like healthy smoothie bowls, um, uh, bullet coffees, you know, from Laird Hamilton, basically.

• 53:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:20Speaker 00

  And, um, that, that has been a 10-year process now. We have five locations on Oahu and then we just franchised, we sold, uh, 13 districts in California.

• 53:32Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 53:33Speaker 00

  So it's getting to the point that it's growing and it's turning into something and it's kind of scary. And it's really, really cool, but, um, the goal with that was just, you know, when we go to a store when, and it's getting easier nowadays, but 10 years ago, if you're not eating at home, you're not really getting a good meal, right?

• 53:53Speaker 01

  That's so true.

• 53:54Speaker 00

  It's a little easier nowadays.

• 53:56Speaker 01

  A little bit easier now, but still, yeah.

• 53:58Speaker 00

  But the goal is, you know, creating a cafe, it's seed oil free. It's, you know, it's got good fruit. Good coffees, good environment, just like happy, positive vibes. Like it's yellow, it's bright. It's like super positive affirmations everywhere.

• 54:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:16Speaker 00

  So that's been a cool process.

• 54:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and tell me about the paraxanthine drink.

• 54:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think, um, yeah, like I said, wanting to create something that's healthy and just available for people. And it's called Foreign Waters.

• 54:35Speaker 01

  Foreign Waters?

• 54:36Speaker 00

  Foreign Waters, yeah. And it's an electrolyte energy drink. We combine like, um, yeah, hydration, vitamins, um, paraxanthine minerals.

• 54:50Speaker 00

  Right now it's just in a packet. You put it in your water. We're coming out with four new flavors right now.

• 54:54Speaker 01

  Can't fire me up with some. I hope there's some in the bag for me.

• 54:57Speaker 00

  Brought you, yeah.

• 54:57Speaker 01

  Okay, good.

• 54:59Speaker 00

  I would love to hear what you think about.

• 55:01Speaker 01

  Judge of this.

• 55:02Speaker 00

  Exactly, yeah. I mean, I'd be stoked to hear what you think about the ingredients.

• 55:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:07Speaker 00

  We have an excellent team and we're trying to bring like really high quality ingredients.

• 55:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:12Speaker 00

  Which is hard because people don't want to pay a lot of money for things, it turns out.

• 55:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you know, I love these passion projects that turn, you know, passion turned entrepreneurialism, you know? You know, I'm a capitalist too, and I, and I, I really wish the biggest, most profitable impactful brands in the world were in service to humanity. You know, they really cared about what was going into the bodies that they're serving instead of the chemicals and synthetics and pharmaceuticals. I mean, you can make, you can make money doing that too. But there's no reason to not find a path to make a better, you know, better place for humanity and, and be a capitalist at the same time. It's, one is not evil. The love of money is the root of all evil, not, not money.

• 55:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 55:56Speaker 01

  And it sounds like your journey really shaped your entrepreneurial path.

• 56:00Speaker 00

  Hundred percent, yeah.

• 56:01Speaker 01

  And, uh, you know, you, you've had a lot of struggles and overcome a lot of things, especially going from being such a highly regarded and performing professional to then, you know, essentially being told that you're not who you are anymore. Coming back from that, it's, it's no surprise to me that you've reframed that journey. And I mean, I think you're going to be really successful in all these. I just feel it.

• 56:25Speaker 00

  Appreciate it, yeah.

• 56:26Speaker 01

  But, um, uh, so how does my audience, if they want to know more about you, how do they find you?

• 56:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, mostly active on social media, Koa Smith on Instagram, um, it's Koa Smith on YouTube and TikTok.

• 56:41Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 56:42Speaker 00

  And yeah, we're, we're, we're playing that game.

• 56:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:46Speaker 00

  You gotta play that game, right?

• 56:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:48Speaker 00

  But, um, I bring a lot of like my wisdom and insights that I learned from the ocean.

• 56:55Speaker 00

  To try to just pepper that through my, um, entire social media. I have my own school. It's called The Way of the Surfer.

• 57:02Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 57:02Speaker 00

  Where I'm starting to like, I'm starting to try to put all these things that I've learned that, um, that helped me just feel connected and good, like guided breath works. Simple guided diet, like I'm just.

• 57:18Speaker 01

  What's your diet look like?

• 57:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, um, just whole foods.

• 57:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:21Speaker 00

  Basically, I mean, I'm to the point where I feel so strong that if I, whoa, if I have chips, it's not going to like destroy me.

• 57:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 57:33Speaker 00

  If I eat bread, I'm going to be okay. There was a time though where I was like so sensitive to everything.

• 57:39Speaker 01

  Right.

• 57:40Speaker 00

  But a lot of grass-fed steak. I mean, I followed Paul Saladino's program for like six months. And I felt the strongest, best I've ever felt. I feel like it healed a lot for me. But now it's like a little bit more balanced with a lot of fruit, a lot of, um, not a lot of vegetables, but sweet potatoes, a little bit veggies, a lot of steak.

• 58:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. No, that's great. I mean, that sounds very much the way that, that I eat. So I, I wind down all my podcasts by asking my guests the same question. Um, and there's no right or wrong answer to this question, but what, what does it mean to you to be an ultimate human?

• 58:17Speaker 00

  To be an ultimate human? I feel like the pursuit, the pursuit of being an ultimate human makes you an ultimate human. Where you are constantly open to new potentials, you're constantly exploring your own potential, and you're not letting fear like restrain you in this life. I don't know if that's a word, but you know what I mean.

• 58:48Speaker 01

  It is, yeah. Yeah, I mean, we talked about how fear narrows our ability to make decisions.

• 58:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:54Speaker 01

  You know, I think it makes everything worse, and there's no way to go through life without it, so we've got to figure out ways to manage it.

• 59:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:01Speaker 01

  And harness it.

• 59:02Speaker 00

  Thanks to people like you, we're gonna, in the next five to 10 years, we're gonna, we're gonna learn what an unlimited human is.

• 59:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:11Speaker 00

  And like, what are we capable of? And I think that, that's the, the mission right now.

• 59:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:22Speaker 00

  It's like, what, if we were truly trusting, unlimited, doing all the right things and aligned, what are we capable of?

• 59:30Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 59:31Speaker 00

  And, I mean, I go back to like the ancient Hawaiians and the way that they lived. They were like perfectly in balance with life.

• 59:40Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 59:41Speaker 00

  And a lot of cultures had psychedelics in it.

• 59:46Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 59:47Speaker 00

  Ancient Hawaiians, I think they had one light psychedelic, but they also had kava, which would like relax them a little bit.

• 59:54Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 59:55Speaker 00

  But they were so connected.

• 59:57Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 59:58Speaker 00

  And they were, there's stories of like, people being able to communicate from island to island with telepathy.

• 1:00:05Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:00:06Speaker 00

  And like, there's these, this next level of connection and human ability that becomes accessible when you're, when you are living in that natural flow.

• 1:00:17Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:00:18Speaker 00

  So I'm interested to see in the next, like, 10 years, what we all discover of, like, what is an unlimited human?

• 1:00:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, that's great, man. That's maybe one of the best answers I've gotten on my podcast.

• 1:00:30Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:00:31Speaker 01

  Koa, thank you for coming on the Ultimate Human Podcast, man. You're a legend.

• 1:00:34Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:00:35Speaker 01

  Um, I think your story's gonna resonate a lot with my audience. Um, and until next time, guys, that's just science.