JFK, UFOs, Atlantis and Mind Control: The Man Who Put World Famous Conspiracies to the Ultimate Test

Was there a second JFK assassin? Can the government plant thoughts in your brain? Is Atlantis real? Chad Robichaux explores these questions and more in the new TCN series, “Shadow Figures.” Paid partnerships with: Tecovas: Step into premium comfort with handcrafted boots from Tecovas - get 10% off your pair right now by signing up for emails and texts at https://tecovas.com/tuckerJoi + Blokes: Use code TUCKER for 65% off your labs and 20% off all peptides and supplements at https://joiandblokes.com/tuckerCozy Earth: Luxury shouldn't be out of reach. Get up to 20% off at https://cozyearth.com/TUCKER Wisewell: Turn your tap into a plentiful source of safe, great-tasting water. Always fresh, always plastic free. Special TCN listener deals and promos at https://wisewell.com/tuckerTCN: Watch ‘Shadow Figures’ on TCN on November 5: https://tuckercarlson.com/shadowfigures Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Tucker Carlson?

  Well, it's been 63 years since President John F. Kennedy was murdered, and we still don't know the full story, or even the outline of the full story. Why don't we know that? Why can't we know that? And that's not the only thing we don't know. All over the world, for example, there are huge stone structures built thousands of years ago. We're told that primitive people built them with primitive tools. Really? Have you looked at them? A modern stonemason couldn't do that with modern tools. Why is no one interested in finding out how these things were made? At some point, we stopped being curious. In fact, curiosity became a kind of crime. People just accepted the official explanation, which is no explanation at all, and then they moved on. Well, Chad Robashow is not willing to move on.

• 1:15Tucker Carlson?

  He's the host of our new series, Shadow Figures, which investigates some of history's greatest mysteries, from the JFK assassination to lost civilizations, to many other topics that we should pause and think about. What is that? It is fascinating. It's worth watching. You can watch it now at tuckercarlson.com. Chad joins us now.

• 1:37Tucker Carlson?

  Chad, thank you very much for doing this and for making this series, which is amazing.

• 1:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:42Tucker Carlson?

  So you've gone through and reassessed, and with some rigor, I would say, logical rigor and science, a bunch of different stories, theories that are, you know, kind of ever-present in a lot of people's minds. And I just want to go through some of them and ask what you've learned. And some of these, especially the first one, the JFK assassination, it's like kind of hard to think about what you could add to that. But I think you have added something to it. So what has surprised you or struck you about that story as you've looked at it?

• 2:14Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, I didn't realize there was that this alternative motive theory that Jeff Crookshank, who are our shadow figure, the way the show works is a shadow figure is someone that has a theory or a conspiracy, a theory of a conspiracy or mystery. That's who the shadow figure is. So in this one, it's Jeff Crookshank. And we didn't want to do a show where we had the theory and we investigated our own theory. We wanted to talk to people that had these theories. But my frustration has been, as a fan of these topics, like ancient aliens and things like that, has been watching these shows and seeing historians and experts and college professors getting on cameras and changing from face to face, and you're just talking about it. I'm like, will somebody go get a shovel and dig a hole?

• 2:53Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly. No, that's right. It's unsatisfying.

• 2:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I'm like, I could do that. I could get a group of special operations guys who have investigative spirit. They're highly intelligent, highly capable. We have all the modern technology and ability to do that. We could go investigate these things. And so let's talk to the, these people that have these theories and either prove them or debunk them or find out more information for them. And so Jeff Crookshank in the JFK episode is Australian intelligence officer, his whole career in Australian intelligence. And he also, as part of his job, was investigating the JFK assassination. And then he, he took that from his, from his occupational of actually doing it for this Australian intelligence agency that he was with, he's taken that and became a hobbyist in it.

• 3:39Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 3:40Speaker 02

  And so he had his own theories of why. I mean, there's, there's tons of reasons why someone would have wanted to kill JFK. You know, Robert Kennedy putting the mafia in jail, us attempting to assassinate Fidel Castro, JFK allowing a coup in South Vietnam, Russia, like all different kinds of reasons that could have happened. But one that Jeff Crookshank presented was his beef, JFK's personal beef with Allen Dulles, Director Dulles of the CIA. And as JFK takes office, he inherits the overthrowing of Cuba from Eisenhower plan called the Bay of Pigs. And there's this invasion of local nationals, the defectors that we had control of, about 1,100 of them,

• 4:25Speaker 02

  invaded Cuba, and it was a complete flop. And JFK blamed Director Dulles on it. They say that's one of the reasons that he forced him to resign. But what Crookshank presents is that there were some other reasons to do with UAP programs that Kennedy wanted access to. And Kennedy kept pushing for that, even as Dulles left the CIA, was still involved in these programs. They had to stop Kennedy from pushing to have access to these programs. And Kennedy was specifically concerned that some of these programs would start a war with Russia. This happened in the middle of the Cuban Missile Crisis, right? I mean, with all the nuclear, like the world's on the edge of a nuclear war, and Kennedy's worried about that

• 5:07Speaker 02

  because, because there's a program called Project Palladium that, by the way, this is going to come back later, Lee Harvey Oswald was part of in the 50s. And Project Palladium was the spoofing of Russian radio defense system, radar defense systems. So we were like, kind of probing their radar defense systems. At the same time, the US military is doing things like, like, these different operations. One of them was Operation Fishbowl, Operation Dominic, where we are actually testing nuclear over the, over the Pacific. We're testing nuclear explosions in the ionosphere. And so as this is all happening, Kennedy's like, hey, this is going to start a nuclear war.

• 5:50Speaker 02

  I need access to these programs because we need to let Russia know what we're actually doing. And Dulles was pushing back. And so the big belief that Crookshank has is that JFK was killed over this.

• 6:01Tucker Carlson?

  The fact that Lee Harvey Oswald, who was arrested for the murder, and then of course famously killed by nightclub owner, Jack Ruby, two days later. But the fact that he was involved in Project Palladium, is that one of those weird coincidences? Do we think it's relevant?

• 6:16Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, it goes to the fact that they think he, it could have been a weird coincidence, right? But it, but it also, he was, he was part of the, there's some CIA folks that said that they were following a look-alike in Mexico to, to pin the assassination of Fidel Castro on Oswald. And so if he was, if he was part of that, then, then they think that, that it eventually shifted from killing Castro to killing JFK. And so these guys came out and said they didn't want to be part of it. This is what Crookshank claims. And, and now, one of the things that ties to UFOs

• 6:59Speaker 02

  is Operation Blue Gill. If you watch the old videos of Operation Blue Gill, there's a video of, of a ICBM going in the air, exploding. Oh, this one, the first one didn't explode. It goes in the air, and as it's coming back down, there's a orb that follows it back down. And this is a documented video. Originally, this in our, in Shadow Figures in the show, originally, the Department of Energy actually blocked that out. They altered the video so you couldn't see the orb. We have, we actually have the real footage of the orb being seen. And then Blue Gill Triple Pine, the, is the next operation. The ICBM goes up and explodes. And when it explodes, that same orb actually falls. Now, the people, the military people involved in this, they were called, they actually had seen this orb so many times, they were calling it a tag along. So they actually had named it.

• 7:43Speaker 02

  And this orb falls down, and the naval ship records reflected that was actually a UFO recovery of that orb. And when they brought it onto the ship, the power in the ship went out. Certain, some sailors got radiation sickness. So this is actually documented by the Navy. These orbs, they recovered something, whether it was UFO, but this, Crookshank claims it was a UFO. So this kind of ties to the fact that there was a UFO or UFO UAP programs tied to these operations that Kennedy was wanting access to.

• 8:17Tucker Carlson?

  Why wouldn't the President of the United States be able to get access to information in the branch of government he controls?

• 8:23Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, that's been kind of UAP. I mean, I don't think President Trump has access

• 8:29Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 8:30Speaker 02

  to these programs right now. I think there's a secret segment, a part of the government that has worked outside of congressional control for quite some time. And if you look at something like the Majestic 12, which is, if you know what the Majestic 12 is, I'm sure you do. For those listening, President Truman started the Majestic 12 to investigate UAP activity. It was, it was briefed to Eisenhower, but no one since, including, including JFK, who he wanted access to this information about this Majestic 12 or MJ 12. And so I think, I think. JFK was probably the first president that this was kept from and and they did successfully keep it from him. Now, whether they killed him over it or not, right, this is speculation by our shadow figure, Jeff Crookshank, but but it was kept from JFK and and has been

• 9:14Speaker 02

  kept, I believe, from every president since.

• 9:16Tucker Carlson?

  Why would a president put up with that? I know we're going far afield here.

• 9:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 9:19Tucker Carlson?

  Just get, that's not self-government. If the guy who's been elected by the population to run the country can't see information in the government he controls, then how is it a democracy?

• 9:28Speaker 02

  It is not. It's not. I mean, we, we, there certainly, from what I've, I know you've done extensive amount of research in this too, but from what I've researched as well, I mean, this, this has been a issue for many presidents, many presidents, where they personally get in the White House. And I mean, if I was president, what the first thing I want to see is I want to see, I want to see the grays. I want to see the aliens. I want to see the aircraft. I want to see these things. And and they've been stonewalled to see these things and and including, uh, members of Congress right now. I mean, right now you have members of Congress like Burleson and Burchett, who are trying to go see these sites and and they're not getting access to see these sites. And and, you know, there's somewhere within our government for obviously very, very long time, always since back French

• 10:10Speaker 02

  Truman, they begin to segment off a part of the government that's people don't have access to, including President of the United States. And I agree with you. I don't think it's a democracy.

• 10:19Tucker Carlson?

  That just means it's a separate government.

• 10:20Speaker 02

  It's a separate government. Exactly.

• 10:21Tucker Carlson?

  Right. There's a country.

• 10:22Speaker 02

  And and and by the way, we could, we could go way into this, but this money, money being siphoned off to fund these programs.

• 10:30Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 10:30Speaker 02

  A tremendous amount. When you have a imbalance of budgets like we have, right, it'd be pretty easy to cipher off money to run these programs.

• 10:36Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. Well, I know the rigorous annual audits they undergo must find those imbalances. Yeah, right. Okay. So, sorry. Back to the Kennedy assassination. So, his, is his, is Crookshank's belief that Oswald acted alone?

• 10:50Speaker 02

  No, he believes that he's part of a, part of a CIA assassination team. Now, whether that was official or rogue, he doesn't really make claim to that. But he, but he does believe this is the same assassination team that was being used and trained to assassinate Fidel Castro. Again, they were, they were, they were in Mexico, having a Leo Harvey Oswald lookalike filming him going to Soviet, different, different Soviet embassies, different locations to really plot to, for him to be the patsy for a Fidel Castro assassination. And they shifted the target to JFK. That's, that's his claim.

• 11:30Tucker Carlson?

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• 12:15Tucker Carlson?

  boots loves them. Check out for yourself their full lineup of Western boots, apparel, denim, online leather goods. Go to one of their 60 plus retail stores across the country. They've got great staff, free drinks, custom boot branding. It's worth it. Right now, get 10% off at tecovas.com, T E C O V A S dot com slash Tucker when you sign up for email and text. 10% off at tecovas.com slash Tucker. Who does he think the other shooters were?

• 12:42Speaker 02

  He believes there was a team and and he believes there was two points of trajectory for redundancy.

• 12:48Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 12:48Speaker 02

  Which, you know, if you had that kind of a target, you would want, if it's a real assassination attempt, not just some crazy person, you would want some redundancies.

• 12:56Tucker Carlson?

  Yep.

• 12:57Speaker 02

  And so that any type of military operation that you would have that. And so, um, so he believes that whether it was Oswald or someone else was in the Texas Book Depository Building, sixth floor, and had had that trajectory of shots. Now, you know, I personally believe that Oswald was one of the shooters. Was there two shooters in the Book Depository Building? I don't know. I, there was at least one there. But we also believe that a different trajectory, that there was one in the trajectory of the Grassy Knoll. Crookshank believed that that specifically there was someone hiding in the storm drain of the Grassy Knoll. So that's his claim. His claim is that there's two shooters, a minimum of two shooters, one in the sixth floor of the Texas Book Depository Building, where Oswald was alleged to be.

• 13:40Speaker 02

  And the second would be at the storm drain of the Grassy Knoll. And so for us, we, this is a theory and we want to test this theory. And to test that theory, I put together what I believe to be some of the best special operations snipers of our generation, led by Mark Green, who is a Navy SEAL sniper, but he's also the commander of sniper school for the Navy SEALs, very intelligent military officer and and sniper. And we had some others, Dennis Price, Colton Hill, Cody Alfred, Marsoc, Marine Force Recon, Marsoc Scout Sniper, incredibly experienced snipers. We brought some of the best guys we could to actually recreate those scenarios and test those shots.

• 14:21Tucker Carlson?

  We're going to play a clip of what you just described.

• 14:23Speaker 02

  It was time to see how hard it would be to replicate what the government says Oswald did. Shoot at Kennedy three times, allegedly hitting him twice with a bolt action rifle while traveling in a moving vehicle.

• 14:36Speaker 03

  All right, spotter, talk to me.

• 14:39Speaker 04

  Hey, we got a target in the vehicle, 12 o'clock, 100 yards.

• 14:45Speaker 03

  Roger that, 12 o'clock, 100 yards.

• 14:47Speaker 04

  Six miles per hour, quarter value, hold slight left when ready.

• 14:51Speaker 03

  Six miles per hour, quarter value, holding left.

• 14:58Speaker 03

  Shooter's ready.

• 14:59Speaker 05

  Shooter ready?

• 15:00Speaker 03

  Standby.

• 15:07Speaker 03

  Starting wedge.

• 15:28Speaker 04

  Nice headshot.

• 15:32Speaker 03

  Should we cheer or no?

• 15:33Speaker 04

  All right. I think you should say, oh, no.

• 15:35Speaker 03

  Kind of morbid to cheer. Looks like a.

• 15:36Speaker 04

  Is it, am I wrong?

• 15:37Speaker 03

  Looks like a.

• 15:38Speaker 04

  It was a good hit?

• 15:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, it blew it apart. It was the bottom right of the skull.

• 15:43Speaker 02

  So Mark nailed it. Three shots, eight seconds. The only thing to consider is Mark did have Dennis as a spotter. Supposedly Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone.

• 15:53Tucker Carlson?

  So what do we learn?

• 15:54Speaker 02

  So we learned that, that the, the Warren Commission, by the way, which was in 1964, Warren Commission was the investigation of the JFK assassination. By the way, in 2023, did it a Gallup poll and and 65% Americans don't buy that story. No surprise there. But uh, but there was.

• 16:13Tucker Carlson?

  I'd love to meet the 35 who do.

• 16:15Speaker 02

  Who do, yeah. They go along with everything, right? But, but, um, one of the things specifically that that our shooters disagree with, our snipers disagree with was, was some of the forensics and the autopsy, that this was a rear entry wound and a rear, a rear, lower,

• 16:33Speaker 02

  lower head entry wound and the exit wound was from the, from the front right skull.

• 16:38Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 16:38Speaker 02

  We believe, we believe that to be from assessment that that was actually reverse, that the entry room was in the front of the skull and exited out of the back. This has been debated beyond us, right? So we, so since we believe that, we, that aligned with what Crookshank's theory was, so we reshoot it. First thing we wanted to see was could Oswald successfully pull off eight shot, three shots in eight seconds? We believed he could. And and we were able to do that pretty easily. Six, six, sixth floor, 60 to 90 yards was the assessment of how far it was, a moving vehicle and to be able to at least get one headshot from there. We were able to reshoot that, no problem. Oswald was capable.

• 17:18Tucker Carlson?

  Using the Carcano rifle, the same.

• 17:19Speaker 02

  We used a Carcano rifle. And in the other was the magic bullet theory. We wanted to see, you could, could that bullet actually go through JFK and enter the governor? Now you're talking about going through soft tissue of the neck, coming out of JFK's front of his neck, going into the governor, going through his, through his body, going through his wrists and enlarging in his knee. Could that bullet actually do that? I could say right away definitively, yes, there's nothing magic about that bullet. You have a, you have a 7.5 millimeter bullet, full metal jacket, moving at 2,000 feet per second, in excess of 2,000 feet per second. At 60 to 90 yards, it still has the velocity to do that. So nothing's magic about that. The only person that, that heard it audibly, no

• 18:01Speaker 02

  one really heard it audibly. We see, we see him slump over and he's leaning and we see the, the bullet, which we believe entered here and exited here. And so the trajectory of that would have had to, would have had to line up as he passed the storm drain. You get about, at a vehicle moving anywhere from probably nine to 11 miles an hour, as it's passing there, you, if someone's in that storm drain, they're going to have like a one to two second window to get that shot off. And where's it going to hit? Because you can't control, if you're in that storm drain, you can't control the amount of, the window you're going to have to shoot from. So we put Cody Alfred in the storm drain with a pistol and we rolled it across. And when, when it came across, he had a split

• 18:43Speaker 02

  second to make the shot. And when the shot went off and we had that, that dummy position, it hit exactly in the spot of the skull that we believe was the entry wound for JFK in the third and final.

• 18:55Tucker Carlson?

  How far was the storm drain from the vehicle ish?

• 18:58Speaker 02

  Ish, 10 to 15 feet.

• 19:00Tucker Carlson?

  Close.

• 19:00Speaker 02

  If you imagine just a vehicle driving in, in the lane next to storm drain, that's it. And if you're sitting in that storm drain, which is, it's like a, a urban area storm drain.

• 19:10Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 19:10Speaker 02

  It's a very small window. And you had to be waiting.

• 19:14Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 19:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. So you had to be waiting for it to happen. And you probably was, were cued or you, he would have heard other shots, right? The shooter would have either been cued by radio or he would have heard other shots as signal shots. And and he, he knew that vehicle was coming. And, and when it hit, I think we all conclusively knew when it hit, because it hit so precise to what the forensics and autopsy show, like right in the, in the exact same spot. And we, we had positioned that dummy to have that same leaning angle as JFK was holding his neck. And so we believe to be, we believe that, that Crookshank's, maybe not motive of why it happened, but the theory of a shooter in the storm drain for that third and final fatal shot was 100% correct. And

• 19:57Speaker 02

  And this is nothing about opinion or his opinion about this is math. It's ballistics and trajectory and, and we just did a math project. And based on the ballistics and trajectory, we'd be that third final and fatal shot came from, even if the, the theory was correct, even if the theory was correct, that, that, that, that this was the entry wound and this was the exit wound, the trajectory doesn't match the, the sixth floor in the Book of Apostory building. So it couldn't have came from there. If, if, if, if the, if we're wrong about the entry and exit, then that shot, that third and final shot did not come from the textbook depository building. It came from somewhere else, but we believe that the entry was the front, uh, the front of his head.

• 20:35Tucker Carlson?

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• 21:17Tucker Carlson?

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• 22:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:03Tucker Carlson?

  12 or so years ago, um, what happened to it?

• 22:07Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, uh, I don't think we still know even after my episode. But, uh, but Ashton Forbes, uh, is a theorist and that's who we interview, um,

• 22:17Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 22:18Speaker 02

  On Malaysia flight 370. It is a really interesting theory, uh, and that theory is that, that, uh, that a government program intercepts Malaysia flight 370 using orb technology to transport it to, to, uh, to a different location, a CIA, a secret CIA military base. And, uh, and it sounds crazy. Uh, however, um, if the video, which the video is in debate, if the video that, that he shows is real, then, uh, then certainly, uh, it's plausible, right? You see, so first of all, on, on the flight, you have, you have 20 semiconductor, usually when a plane goes down, you're like, who's on the plane? Like you want to know, like that plane went down, who was on this plane?

• 23:00Speaker 02

  20 semiconductor engineers are part of a, a, of government program flying from Malaysia to Beijing. Uh, so there's a little bit of a motive there, like where are these guys going? Or are they defecting, going to give us technology to China? And, and so the US military would, or the CIA or US military want to gain control of the aircraft. And so how do they do that? Well, they, uh, what, what Ashton alleges is that the plane takes off and after the plane takes off, smoke, uh, starts coming from the back of the aircraft and the plane lowers itself, uh, it, it lowers itself and, and naval vessel contacts the pilot and says, your plane's on fire. Uh, we need you to go to this location and we're going to do emergency rescue.

• 23:42Speaker 02

  And so the plane on fire theory is something that we needed to test because we didn't believe that, uh, that it could be a plane on a fire that would last, uh, over an hour, uh, to be able to make it to a rendezvous point. Uh, it, it, first of all, you can't have a, oh, the, the, the, the plane fire was said to be because of these, these lithium batteries were put on this plane unmanifested. I think, um, I think I gotta go back and look number, but I think it's like 200 pounds of, of lithium battery put on this plane unmanifested right before. Now lithium, uh, fire can't be put out with water. In fact, the aircraft don't even have water suppression systems because you can't carry that much water to put it out. And so if a lithium battery fire took place in the aircraft, it would have went down

• 24:27Speaker 02

  immediately. And so we wanted to be able to prove that theory. So we, we got a scaled down one in 30th scale aircraft and we lit it on fire to see how long it would last. And it lasted minutes. So that, that, that, that was not a scenario that we believed was possible. And so we believe that it would have been a, uh, there would have been some kind of, uh, maybe diversion, uh, uh, incinerator device that created smoke just to be able to create a, that scenario to gain control of an aircraft. Forbes claims that, that then the pilot complied, went to, went out towards where the, the naval ship was, and then was intercepted by, uh, a predator drone. You could see the feed on that video. You can see part of the predator, the predator drone on the video.

• 25:10Speaker 02

  And, uh, and, and there's another satellite video of it from two different angles. So you have two different angles showing the same thing. You see a plane flying with smoke hanging out the back of it. And you, you see one arm come in and a second arm come in and a third arm come in. These orbs start circling the aircraft, uh, in a, in a weird pattern of a very, not a weird pattern, a very, uh, um, synchronized pattern. And then they flash, a flash goes and the plane disappears. One of the interesting things he brought, brought up with this was that, that, uh, the plane reappears there, the, the CIA military base. And, and when it, uh, when it does, people spot a burning plane. There's eyewitnesses of a burning plane going through the air and both the disappearance

• 25:52Speaker 02

  location and reappearance location, which are a thousand miles away. Uh, also the cell phones and the, the cell phones start pinging, uh, because it's low enough for the cell phones start pinging. So that, and in both locations, you have cell phones pinging from both locations.

• 26:05Tucker Carlson?

  Is that, is that a fact?

• 26:07Speaker 02

  Uh, that's his claim, his claim. I haven't seen a report. This is his claim that the cell phones are pinging in both locations that they, and that the family members, there's statements from the family members that the cell phones continue to ring for up to a week. Uh, so when you call a phone, if it's in the bottom of the ocean, it's not going to ring, it's going to go right to voicemail. But if you call a phone and it's still, um, you know, in service, it's going to ring and go to voicemail. And so family members claim those phones ring for up to a week. And, uh, and so his, his claim is that some sort of, some sort of teleporting technology and these orbs were able to capture that plane and, and move it to a different location.

• 26:45Tucker Carlson?

  What happened to the rest of the people on the plane?

• 26:47Speaker 02

  We never heard from them again. This has been searched like for years for debris and there's been small parts of debris. Some people say it was placed there, but not, certainly not in a, uh, finding the aircraft. And, uh, there's no evidence where the aircraft would have went.

• 27:02Tucker Carlson?

  So. I don't know what I think. I'm skeptical though of that theory.

• 27:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, that, that actually, that, that actually is one of the ones I'm, I'm slightly skeptical about as well. Uh, the video is, is very much in question. Uh, Ashton Forbes spends his life defending this video. We did have a Hollywood producer come on and look at the video and say that the video was, was not doctored because of the way the orbs go through the, the chemtrail and the, the, or the, the smoke in the back of the air, chemtrail, the smoke in the back of the aircraft. Uh, I said, it couldn't have been doctored because of that. Uh, however, we couldn't test that. I don't have a orb weapon system to test.

• 27:37Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 27:38Speaker 02

  But we could test was the, was the, was the fire theory. And we, we didn't believe that, that, that there was a real fire on an aircraft. We believe that it was a diversion to put on a, if there was really, and the official claim is there was a lithium battery, but this lithium battery fire, it wouldn't have made it.

• 27:53Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. And you'd think that if the plane was on fire, there'd be some kind of mayday from the pilot.

• 27:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:59Tucker Carlson?

  Of which there's no record.

• 28:00Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 28:02Tucker Carlson?

  Is Atlantis a real place?

• 28:04Speaker 02

  I believe the proverbial city of Atlantis is a real place. Uh, episode three is probably one of my favorite episodes. Uh, I love the ocean. I love diving and, uh, and I, and I love, uh, I love the idea of, of the pre, pre deluvinil or anti-deluvinil world before the flood. Um, I believe everything. By the way, in my search for all these mysteries and conspiracies, I'm a Christian like, like you. And, uh, so everything for me begins in a garden. It begins at creation and, and, uh, and as you look at, look at, uh, as I look at our world, the, you know, war and, and division and, and all these things going on in the world today, uh, I think it all begins there. Uh, Genesis, in Genesis 315, it talks about, uh, it talks about, you know, the, in the

• 28:48Speaker 02

  garden and, and Satan deceiving the woman and Adam and Eve, uh, taking a bite of the fruit and deceiving, uh, uh, rebelling against God. But then in, in, in Genesis 315, it says that the, that there's going to be imminity that between.

• 29:04Speaker 02

  The woman and the serpent between her offspring and his offspring. This is Christians call this the first gospel because in that short phrase, it tells, it tells, it talks about the deception. It talks about the rebellion. It talks about the curse. It talks about a spiritual war. It talks about the hardship with that, that, uh, that, uh, the seed of Satan is going to bruise the heel of, of those seed of the woman. Uh, but it says the, the seed of the woman is going to crush the head of the serpent, uh, uh, which is the, I believe the cross and, and the redemption of mankind. So you had this amazing thing laid out, Christians call this the first gospel, uh, laid out in Genesis 315. And I think it all, it all began, it all begins there.

• 29:45Speaker 02

  If you jump from that to, uh, Genesis six, and you talk about, uh, Genesis six is basically the introduction to many leap from there to the book of Enoch. But it talks about, uh, the sons of God, angels breeding with women and creating giants. And so this is the pre delusional world, the pre flood world that we, that we live in. And while, while it's really important to Atlantis and some of these topics is because if you, if you take the leap to the book of Enoch, and I know a lot of Christians will be like, don't read Enoch. Well, we read, millions of people have read Rick Warren, his books and, and John Eldredge, and all these are the books. Reading something outside the Bible is not sacrilege to read those things. I think you should take it in context. And anything I read, by the way, I contrast the gospel. If it contradicts the gospel, then I don't read it and throw it out. But, uh, I've read book, the book of Enoch.

• 30:29Speaker 02

  And by the way, it was, it was found with the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1947. It's reference for maybe five, uh, Hebrew, Hebrews, uh, Genesis, Jude, Luke, and maybe Peter is a little bit of reference to the book of Enoch. It's referenced throughout the, throughout the Bible. I think Jesus slightly makes a reference to it. Uh, some could debate that. Uh, it was in that first, it was in the Ethiopian Orthodox.

• 30:51Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 30:52Speaker 02

  Uh, church. So it's, it's, it's a very, uh, many people take this book seriously. Uh, but it doesn't contradict the gospel. In fact, for me, reading it, it actually really helps me understand the spiritual war that, that we're all engaged in, uh, very well. And it helps me understand things like the flood and understanding the flood being act of mercy and not of act of harshness. Uh, so I, I really think the book of Enoch really helps me understand my perspective on this. But when you, when you think about that, the book of, the book of Enoch and, and Genesis six, it, it gives you a glimpse into the pre delusional world. And a lot of things we talk about mystery and conspiracy, such as you and I talked earlier, the megalithic structures.

• 31:31Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 31:32Speaker 02

  If you don't understand what the world was like before the flood, there's, you really have no way to make sense of some of these things. And if you go into the book of Enoch, when it talks about the watchers who are the 200 angels overwatching earth, they, they descend onto the earth at Mount Hernan, and they want to take human wives to, to copulate and, and make offspring, which we know to be the giants, Nephilim, uh, and ta, take those wives, they had to trade a dowry to the fathers of those, of those women and trade. And we, they're trading technology, ways of war, weapons of war, uh, the ability to make medicines, sorcery, they're trading all these things, including probably the ability to build these things. They're, they're getting forbidden knowledge and technology.

• 32:17Speaker 02

  I believe that the ancient world, uh, in this interbreeding between man and woman, I mean, between, uh, woman and, uh, and angel, I believe that was to go back to Genesis 315 to, to that seed war between this, the, the sons of the devil, the sons of Satan and, and the offspring of the woman. Because Jesus had a bloodline that began from the garden. And if Satan could, uh, his counter move to this was to infect that bloodline. And so about a thousand years, they, they had this, uh, this intermingling between, uh, the angelic beings and in humans. And for about a thousand years, that bloodline is getting infected. So when you talk about like the flood, something like the flood and think of the flood is really

• 33:00Speaker 02

  harsh, well, I think it was an act of mercy because, uh, redemption was in the bloodline through Jesus and we had to protect that. So God comes in and, and, and by the way, man's petitioning, uh, petitioning to God to, to rescue them from the giants. And so that flood, I believe was for that. When you talk about like something like Noah, uh, being pure, well, Noah was a human. So he was, he wasn't pure of sin, but maybe his bloodline in the eight on that boat's bloodline was pure. And so I believe it was act of mercy, the flood. And I believe all that sets place, uh, before the flood gives a picture of, of what that world was like. And so you have things like the megalith structures that we can't explain. I believe those things were created during that time.

• 33:39Tucker Carlson?

  Well, anyone who uses Cozy Earth will tell you the exact same thing. It's been a game changer. It's wild. The nights getting cooler, creating an extremely comfortable space on your bed and couch is a very good thing. Cozy Earth is here to make it happen. Their bubble cuddle blanket, precisely what it sounds like. How could you not sleep well in one of those? It's really hard not to sleep well. In fact, your kids might wind up physically fighting over gets to use it. You should know that. Cozy Earth sheets are also designed to keep you cool and comfortable all night, preventing you from overheating or kicking off the comfort at two in the morning, waking up hot and confused. Overheating at night means a miserable sleep, but Cozy Earth solves that problem. Head over to cozyearth.com, use code Tucker for up to 20% off home and sleepwear.

• 34:24Tucker Carlson?

  That's cozyearth.com code Tucker. When prompted to check out, be sure to tell them that you've heard about Cozy Earth right here on this show. So for people who don't follow this, I think what you're saying is that our view, the conventional view of history, which is linear, we start off in the caves, hunter, hunting and gathering, then agriculture is invented, and then millennia later, the steam engine, and now we're at AI. But it's all kind of like that.

• 34:50Speaker 02

  Right.

• 34:51Tucker Carlson?

  That's not really real.

• 34:52Speaker 02

  I don't think so. I think, I don't think we've.

• 34:54Tucker Carlson?

  And because there's archaeological evidence that no one has sufficiently explained using that model.

• 35:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, and one of my favorite people to follow in this is Tim Bobberino. He wrote a book called, uh, Birthright. It's incredible, by the way, everyone should read it if you're interested in this. And everyone should be interested in this because it's our, is, is our history. You can't deny, like you said, that the fact that, that the guys at pyramids have structures below that no one can explain. Uh, I mean, you can't, you can't explain even the megalith structures and throughout Amer- America. So we have to know where they come from. Uh, we have to, about to understand where they come from.

• 35:26Tucker Carlson?

  Because if the people who built them based on radiocarbon dating, we can, we think we know, well, they're certainly ancient, we know that.

• 35:34Speaker 02

  Right.

• 35:34Tucker Carlson?

  And so we don't believe that people who lived at the period when these were built, had the technology to build what they clearly built.

• 35:40Speaker 02

  No, I, I've stood in front of the megalith structures of, of the, of Machu Picchu. When you stand there looking at a 300 ton rock that's carved at such precision, it's like, they ain't gonna build this. Maybe they built stuff on top of it, but they, they ain't gonna didn't build this. Like some primitive little mountain tribal person didn't build this. There has to be a preexisting, they had help from someone and, and, and they probably did it with preexisting technology. I don't believe, by the way, we've, and you said this, uh, I don't believe we've evolved. I, I think we've devolved.

• 36:11Tucker Carlson?

  Well, a lot of those structures, Machu Picchu is a great example, but the megaliths in Jordan, the, the mounds in Illinois, like, but some of the stonework, we don't, there are no masons today who could build it.

• 36:23Speaker 02

  No.

• 36:23Tucker Carlson?

  So like, what does that tell you? In 2026, no, with modern tools, you couldn't build that.

• 36:28Speaker 02

  Right.

• 36:29Tucker Carlson?

  So, um, no one's explained any of this stuff. I'm just amazed by how incurious of official institutions are in this. Like, how can National Geographic or the Smithsonian? Like, if I'm the editor of National Geographic, I'm, I don't know, I'm assigning piece after piece, like, how were the pyramids built? How'd they get the stones 300 feet in the air? Like, how did that happen? No one even asks. And it's considered wrong to ask.

• 36:54Speaker 02

  Like you said, even curious. And, uh, even, and even in a church world, which, you know, I'm, I'm in, I'm very much in, very much in the Christian church world. It's, it seems to be like pushed back against to talk about some of this stuff.

• 37:05Tucker Carlson?

  Why?

• 37:06Speaker 02

  I don't, I don't know. It's, it's very peculiar. I, I, I think the answer why is because it's a spiritual, part of a spiritual war and an influence to, don't go there. We don't want to go there because, because there's answers there. Anytime, anytime someone tells you, but it's my, my experience, I think probably yours too. Anytime tells you, somebody tells you, don't go there, don't ask there, it's because there's an answer there.

• 37:23Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 37:24Speaker 02

  And, and, and I think there's, there's an answer there. There's an answer in our history and the pre delusional world to understand how many of these things are, are, are, you know, are on this earth and, and how they're, they're built. And I believe there was ancient technologies that, that existed before the flood that the flood wiped out. And we see the, the megalithic structures or the remnants of that. And I believe Atlantis, the, the proverbial city of Atlantis, uh, is one of those things. And we, and there's a lot that goes into it that suggests it's, it's in the Bermuda Triangle region and, uh, and.

• 37:56Speaker 02

  There would have been global access to that location and many uh.

• 38:01Tucker Carlson?

  So Atlantis in myth lore, history is a sunken island.

• 38:07Speaker 02

  It's a sunken island. Yeah. And, and you know, it's only about, but, but the Bimini Road, which is where we go to is only about 20 feet deep. So not very sunken. It's a 20 feet deep. You know, tides change and the world changes, especially if you go beyond a flood, right?

• 38:24Tucker Carlson?

  Right. So once the glaciers melted 14,000 years ago, of course, they were holding a lot of the earth's water. And so sea levels rose dramatically when they melted.

• 38:33Speaker 02

  Yeah. So yeah, so I think, and look, every, take Christianity, Christianity out of it. Every theological, theological group throughout history points to a global cataclysm of flood. And so it's not restricted to Christians. We all believe that that flood took place and.

• 38:52Tucker Carlson?

  Of course, Gilgamesh talks about it. Yeah, no, right.

• 38:55Speaker 02

  So, so that a flood, a flood did take place and, and, and this beyond that cataclysm, you know, our history was, some of this history was erased. And so even if you go into like Greek mythology, you know, Atlantis ties to Greek mythology, all of it kind of points the same thing. I think Greek mythology is probably a offshoot of the, of the stories of the watchers. And, and, and so I believe Atlantis was probably a real place. The proverbial city of Atlantis was a real place. I believe that it was occupied by angels, fallen angels. And I believe that there was advanced technologies that possessed, that were there. And, and we believe that, that also there have been routes to it because any kind of major, right? New York City has tons of routes going in New York City. So there have been routes to it. And one of those routes that people believe in is, is the Bimini Road,

• 39:38Speaker 02

  which comes from Bimini Island and, and.

• 39:41Tucker Carlson?

  In the Bahamas.

• 39:41Speaker 02

  In the Bahamas. Now, now people say that it's, the dispute to it is that it's naturally occurring features through erosion that makes it look like it's megalithic structures under the, so as we spoke to our, in fact, Tim Aburino, who just mentioned our shadow figure on this, this was Tim Aburino, and he tells a just beautiful story leading up to the proverbial city of Atlantis and why he believes that it could, it could be in, in the Bermuda Triangle and near the Bimini Islands, Bahamas. And so we go there to investigate. And we're looking at an area that has just been uncovered. So it hadn't been explored yet. And, and, and we're looking for what would be things that naturally occur in nature, right angles,

• 40:23Speaker 02

  shimming of stone to level them off, pillowing from poured stone. And so these are some specific things that we're looking for. And we find some pretty.

• 40:32Tucker Carlson?

  Right angles do not exist in nature.

• 40:34Speaker 02

  They don't, especially when they're consistently right angles. You have multiple right angles making squares, rectangles. You know, any geometrical patterns don't exist in nature, particularly pillowing, which would be the pouring of stone. When you pour stone, as it settles, it pillows at the bottom. And then if you're taking multiple different stones and you want it to be level, where you're going to put some structure underneath it to shim it to make it the same level. And so those kinds of things aren't naturally occurring in nature. So these are the things we're looking for. We found several stones, both on land and below the surface of the water by diving that revealed shimming, pillowing and right angles. And additionally, kind of letting some of the parts of the episode out,

• 41:20Speaker 02

  we found some drill holes that were geometrically consistent, patterned drill holes and, and a stone that certainly doesn't happen in nature. And, and, and, and also the captain and, and who's lives in the area was shocked by this. We had a local diver with us who's been diving that area their whole life and was, had seen many of the Bimini Road, much of the Bimini Road before, but this new area, he was, he was blown away by it as well. So we feel like we really found something there. Now, where it goes, where Bimini Road goes, does it go to Lost, Lost City? We don't know, but Tim, Timothy Aburino said it's perfect. You know, you don't build roads to nowhere. If there's a road, it's going somewhere.

• 42:02Tucker Carlson?

  So based on your investigation into this, there's no question in your mind that this road was constructed. This is not naturally occurring.

• 42:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, I can't speak for all of Bimini because there's like lots of stones there, but the, the stones that we looked at were certainly, were certainly not naturally occurring in nature. The right angles, the shimming, the pillowing, the, the drill holes. This is not something that naturally occurs in nature. And so I'm, I'm certain from what I've seen and the, and the stones that we looked at, those, those were manmade.

• 42:32Tucker Carlson?

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• 43:14Tucker Carlson?

  process and can handle sparkling water as well. The WiseWell Sparkle comes with three CO2 canisters, good for 750 glasses of sparkling water. You can even pick the size of your bubbles if you want. We like them small. Plans are highly affordable, starting at 39 bucks a month for unlimited water and filters. Visit wisewell.com/tucker for special deals and promos for the people who listen to this show. So once you discover something like this, are there teams of archaeologists from America's preeminent universities who descend on, on the site to find out more?

• 43:47Speaker 02

  I hope so. That's why we came to TSC, TCN, to learn about it.

• 43:51Tucker Carlson?

  But of course the answer is no, right?

• 43:54Speaker 02

  No one, no one seems to care. And this is profound. Like, I, I don't know why, like, look, we're, we're a group of former, we're not geologists, we're not archaeologists, I'm not a historian. We're a group of special operations guys that's super curious about this and went out and looked.

• 44:12Tucker Carlson?

  And you'd think everyone would be curious about it. I'm totally ignorant. I have no special knowledge of any kind really about anything, but I'm just curious and I just don't understand why people who are in the business of digging up ancient ruins, archaeologists, or in the business of writing about those ruins, historians, why they're not leaping on this stuff and why they're so reflexively opposed to all of it.

• 44:41Speaker 02

  One of the things we were joking about is what they actually care about is when they see a bunch of Neanderthals flipping over, flipping over rocks that they would normally have brushes at. We're out, we're out in the bottom ocean flipping these, these rocks over.

• 44:54Tucker Carlson?

  So if your theory that Genesis 3 and the Book of Enoch are not just folklore, but are describing physical reality, if, if it's, if that's true, if you're right, then there would be, there would be actual physical giants. I mean, that's what those accounts describe, giants.

• 45:13Speaker 02

  Right.

• 45:13Tucker Carlson?

  Men of renown, I think Genesis 3 refers to them as.

• 45:17Speaker 02

  Men of old, men of renown.

• 45:18Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. These are successful, the most successful people of the time were actually not fully human. They were half breeds. That's what the Bible says. That's what Christianity and Judaism believe as a matter of doctrine. So there would be like archaeological evidence of giants, right?

• 45:34Speaker 02

  Well.

• 45:35Tucker Carlson?

  Is there?

• 45:35Speaker 02

  Every time, from my research, and this is something I've been very interested in, and, and, and those who I've spoken to who have spent their life researching this, every time there is evidence of giants, it goes to the Smithsonian and never be seen again.

• 45:51Speaker 02

  Which is quite strange.

• 45:53Tucker Carlson?

  No, they've denied it. Not that that means much, but do you think that's true? The Smithsonian has suppressed archaeological evidence for whatever reason?

• 46:03Speaker 02

  I've spoke to several, several people, even beyond the physical evidence that we have today. If we believe the Bible and believe every part of the Bible, the Bible talks about giants and talks about Goliath.

• 46:11Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 46:11Speaker 02

  And talks about other giants in the Bible. So you can't believe part of the Bible and not believe all of it.

• 46:17Speaker 02

  So, so I believe it, I believe it cover to cover. So I believe giants did exist. I believe that, I believe the, you know, modern day stories are true as well. I believe the giants of, the giant of Kandahar is a true story. In fact, Tim Aburino interviewed the pilot in, in private that flew, flew them out. So it's a firsthand testimony there. So I, I believe.

• 46:38Tucker Carlson?

  For those of us who are not familiar with the, the giant of Kandahar, Kandahar, Afghanistan.

• 46:42Speaker 02

  Kandahar, Afghanistan. There was a story.

• 46:44Tucker Carlson?

  Have you been to Afghanistan?

• 46:45Speaker 02

  I've been to Afghanistan a few times.

• 46:47Tucker Carlson?

  Eight tours in Afghanistan?

• 46:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've been to Afghanistan eight times and I went back for the evacuations and, yeah, so have, have some, some time in Afghanistan. However, I didn't see any giants there. But.

• 46:59Speaker 02

  The story of the is is some Marines getting getting this gunfight with this giant and

• 47:06Tucker Carlson?

  This is in the 2000s during GWAT.

• 47:09Speaker 02

  During GWAT and a team goes back and and actually a team goes back because these Marines didn't come back out, team goes back and and and actually kill this giant and and and it's brought into a facility and and and a US aircraft flies the body back.

• 47:26Tucker Carlson?

  Wait, the the idea is the US Marines fought a giant around 2001 in Afghanistan.

• 47:35Speaker 02

  Around 2001 Afghanistan, that's that's that's the story. I haven't talked to any personally talked to any service members that were involved in that. However, there was a team went back to go in and see what happened with these Marines and they end up getting in a gunfight and kill this, kill this giant. And then this giant was flown back to the United States by a by US Air Force aircraft. I think I think it was a C-17 aircraft, if I remember correctly, and Tim Alberino interviewed the pilot. So so I've had a personal conversation with Tim Alberino, who interviewed the pilot.

• 48:09Tucker Carlson?

  And the pilot confirmed there was a dead giant onboard.

• 48:13Speaker 02

  Has not publicly confirmed it, but but but to Tim Alberino has has confirmed it. And so for him to tell me that that he had this interview, personal interview with the pilot that flew this giant out, I believe him. And so, so I believe I believe the modern day, there is modern day giants that exist. There's some parts of the world. In fact, I won't say where, but Tim Alberino and I are actually going to go investigate some a place that has some current firsthand sightings. And it's a very, very, very remote part of the world. And so we're going to be going to look more. But I but I do believe this exists. And if you if you look at the Nephilim, which is the the offspring of human women

• 48:57Speaker 02

  and and the fallen angels, a lot of people would bring that to the modern day Sasquatch and Bigfoot. When you start talking about this, it sounds crazy. However, no one's found Bigfoot yet, including us. And we did two episodes, two episodes and shadow figures on it. And I believe that the reason no one's found Bigfoot is because it's not some primitive ape. It's actually intelligent, ancient intelligent being and not one, but but but a species of them, that whether they're elusive, elusive for whatever motivation they're elusive for, but but but that's why we've not been able to spot him or see him. You know, get fuzzy videos and with that way game cameras all over, right? You're a hunter, there's

• 49:42Speaker 02

  game cameras all over the world. Why don't we have a picture of Bigfoot? And I believe because it's not some just primitive ape, some wild animal.

• 49:48Tucker Carlson?

  I was just thinking that exact same thing.

• 49:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:50Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, there are game cameras everywhere.

• 49:51Speaker 02

  Everywhere, right? Why would you? So that's that's what I believe now. Maybe it's just so segmented, so small and there in remote parts of the world. But I do believe, again, you sound crazy for saying this, but I do believe I would have I would have said it was crazy a few years ago, but after interviewing these, just talking to people I've talked to, I believe there's something to it. And the Bible talks about, and it doesn't talk about it once, like, so if the giants were drowned off in the flood, how'd they reappear? After the flood? That's a big question. Did somebody, I mean, did somehow God make a mistake, which God does make mistakes, by the way, and someone on that boat on the on the ark was was infected, and the bloodline was infected? I don't I don't believe God makes mistakes. So I don't believe that's the case. Did a giant hang on to the boat

• 50:34Speaker 02

  for for 40 days? I don't believe that. Was it a regional flood? Some people say it's a regional flood, not a global flood. I believe the Bible speaks to a global flood, but people debate that as well. But I believe that if there was rebellion from the watchers coming down to Mount Hearnin, 200 of them, and we know that rebellions happen other times in the Bible, from Satan and other angels, then why couldn't happen after the flood? This is a seed war. And and so I believe that rebellion and the descending of angels on the earth could have happened after the flood. It probably has happened after the flood and probably continues to happen because we're a spiritual, we're in a physical and spiritual world, that we're a spiritual war. And part of that spiritual war is is the descending of angels to interact with humans.

• 51:15Tucker Carlson?

  Should we be on guard against this? Should we be worried about it on the look at? Yeah.

• 51:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course. I mean, the Bible says for us to be on guard, right? Because our enemy, the devil roars around like a like a roaring lion looking to devour us. Like, we should be on guard every day. I mean, I think I think one of the biggest strategies of the enemy of Satan is to is for us to be off guard, for us not to be concerned about these things, for us to believe he doesn't he doesn't exist and and evil doesn't exist. And and so, you know, what what better way to take advantage of your foe and not even know you're you're you're does a threat?

• 51:54Tucker Carlson?

  I think close, close watchers of the world are pretty convinced that evil exists.

• 51:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. But people are naive. People are naive to the threat. And look, you you cannot believe you're in a spiritual war. I mean, certainly cannot believe it. Most people don't. But we are, you cannot believe there's oxygen in this room, we're breathing it. We're in a spiritual war. And and there is a real enemy, Satan, and it began in the garden, and it's here today. And it may sound like fairy tale lore to people, but it's real. And like you said, you could turn on whatever news station you want to turn on and and just scroll your scroll your feed on your social media, and you're going to see the world is and and, you know, it's it's a broken place. It's a broken place, not because of people, because of the influence of the spiritual war and the spirit that we're all engaged in. And so, yeah, certainly, we have to be be on alert.

• 52:43Tucker Carlson?

  Was JFK killed by a lone gunman? Is CIA remote viewing real? Is it really possible? We're putting conspiracy theories to the test to see if they're really theories at all. Shadow Figures takes some of the world's most famous mysteries and recreates them to see if the official narrative is true. A team of elite operations veterans put the magic bullet theory to the test. And how did the Malaysian airliner vanish in 2014? Experts analyzed whistleblower footage, and they recreate the explosion some say brought it down. And is it possible that Atlantis was a real place?

• 53:28Tucker Carlson?

  Psychics actually see what's going on in real time from the other side of the world. Meet Project Stargate's first recruit to learn about efforts to train potential psychic spies. So it's time we find out for certain. Our new series, Shadow Figures, at Tucker Carlson dot com. Does it scare you personally?

• 53:44Speaker 02

  It scares me for for the world. As a as a believer who's really reconciled a lot of this, it doesn't, because I know the end of the story, right? I know the end of Genesis, I know the end of Genesis 15 is that we're going to crush the head of the serpent, and the end of the book, right? We win. But that's but that's a happy ending. But there's a lot of pain that happens in the process of that in a war, right? There's a lot of casualties of war. Any war you look at, there's a lot of that's a lot of casualties of war. And right now, we're seeing a world in casualty of war. So it burns my heart for for everyone who's not aware that we're in this war, who doesn't take part in the victory and then by

• 54:23Tucker Carlson?

  One of the manifestations of spiritual war appears to be war.

• 54:26Speaker 02

  For sure, for certain. Yeah, turning turning brethren against brethren, nation against nation, and we killing each other. We were talking about Ukraine today, and I spent tremendous amount of time, both Afghanistan and Ukraine. And, you know, one of the most horrible things I've seen in my lifetime has been the civilian deaths in Ukraine by a war out of greed from politicians around the world, and certainly influenced by evil, by spiritual evil. And I would I would guess 2 million people in Ukraine.

• 54:58Tucker Carlson?

  2 million?

• 54:59Speaker 02

  I would guess 2 million people between Russia and Ukraine that have died in this war, over the greed of people, because of influence, because of the spiritual influences on them.

• 55:09Tucker Carlson?

  Do you think that's a wow, you think it's a real number, 2 million?

• 55:14Speaker 02

  I think so. Yeah. No, we were never going to know for sure. They're not going to tell us. But but I do believe that's probably the most accurate accurate estimate. And look at the period of time. This is four years.

• 55:25Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, almost five.

• 55:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, that 2 million people would be killed. And no one seems to know or care.

• 55:32Tucker Carlson?

  No one cares. And if you ask even partisans on any side of it, like, how many people have died? They're they're not even, they can't be bothered to find out.

• 55:40Speaker 02

  No.

• 55:41Tucker Carlson?

  Just don't care.

• 55:42Speaker 02

  Because if you admit that number, you have to, then you have to address it, right? Particularly if you're a politician.

• 55:47Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. And if you've been pushing this stuff, and if you don't care at all about the slaughter of people, then, you know, you sort of reveal who you are. How much time have you spent in war zones?

• 55:55Speaker 02

  Well, I've been to Afghanistan eight times. And now, you know, I was a force recovery, and I was I was a DOD contractor, and went to a what's called a JSOC task force. And so I went to Afghanistan eight times in that capacity. And I've been to, outside of that, I've probably been to 20 trips to different conflicted zones around the world, doing humanitarian rescue operations.

• 56:18Tucker Carlson?

  How much did that damage you?

• 56:20Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, when I came home from Afghanistan, like many of our service members today, I dealt with debilitating panic attacks, anxiety, depression, you know, I had a point in 2010 to where I was dealing with such debilitating panic attacks that I had attempted to take my life. You know, I was extremely, extremely depressed, felt like I had no purpose moving forward and came to this point of hopelessness that, you know, maybe my family would be sad without me, but they'd be better off. And unfortunately, that same hopeless thought finds a home in the hearts of over 20. The number 20, by the way, is totally bogus. We don't know the number is. The VA says 17, but they don't count jumps, car crashes, or overdoses, which is VA grades on report card on that. But independent reports will

• 57:04Speaker 02

  say 50 veterans take their lives today. I don't know what the number is, but one is too many. And, you know, it's the same thought that I had that made my family, made my loved ones, maybe the world would be sad without me, but they would be better off and make a very permanent decision to temporary problems and take their lives. And even outside the veteran community, it's a, it's the world, I think you've been one of the only people I've ever heard say before that we're in a suicide epidemic of proportions that the world's never seen before, and no one talks about it. And, and so-

• 57:33Tucker Carlson?

  There's nothing sadder than suicide.

• 57:35Speaker 02

  There's nothing. I mean, it leaves a wake of destruction. They say one in three children from parent that commit suicide or do it as well. So it's a generational-

• 57:41Tucker Carlson?

  And you see that. I've seen that.

• 57:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so, you know, for me, you know, there's a lot of things I did in my own recovery after my suicide attempt. But nothing has been more profound for me than the restoration of my faith through a relationship with Jesus. And you met Steve Toth, you've had him on the show. Steve Toth sat across from me, just like we're sitting across now, and had written a plan of how to fix my life. I slid it over to him. He didn't even read it because he's a really impatient man. And he just told me, he said, if this plan doesn't have anything to do with relationship with Christ, I'm not going to help. Waste your time, I'm not going to let you waste mine. And in that moment, I tried everything. I've been on medications, I've been through counseling, I've been through all these different things, and even had rebounded professionally, successfully. I started, went back to my, you know, kind of, I've been a martial artist since I was five years old. I went back to just fighting full time and

• 58:26Speaker 02

  teaching jiu-jitsu, and I was very successful in that three years I came home. But all those things that I did, nothing had helped me get well. And so I knew I tried everything and nothing had worked. So we have a saying at my foundation now of what you're doing isn't working, why not try something different? And so in that moment, I made a decision to just surrender my life to Jesus. Didn't even really know what it meant. But beyond the decision, for about a year, Steve Toth discipled me and led me to a place of realization of, well, of finding restoration, finding hope, and finding purpose moving forward. And that purpose really manifested for me. And God just put a deep burden on my heart to help others. And I think we talked about it earlier, but I, that burdened me to help others and pay that forward. And that manifested in the founding of Mighty Oaks Foundation

• 59:08Speaker 02

  in 2011. And since then, you know, God's just really blessed the organization. We've been able to serve about 800,000 active duty service members, between 700, 800,000 active duty service members in our residency program. And we have a recovery program for, for active duty service members, veterans, first responders, and their families. And we do about, I think this year, we'll do about $10 million a year in programming for free to all of those groups, including travel. And it's just been amazing to just, you know, the story of Mighty Oaks is I fell down, someone helped me, I turned around and helped the next person, the next person helped the next person. And for 16 years, it's been going on, and thousands and thousands of lives have been impacted. And it's been an amazing thing to be part of.

• 59:47Tucker Carlson?

  How do you save someone from himself?

• 59:50Speaker 02

  I think, when we deal with people that are, because most of the, you know, the perfect, it's very self-destructive tendencies, because of shame, guilt, sense of abandonment, sense of failure, all these different things that people deal with, you have to save them from themselves. And I think the biggest thing is, on a peer level, coming on a peer level and being able to connect with someone at a peer level. Peer level support is, there's nothing like it. Anybody that's dealt with addictions knows that only, only someone that, only an addict can help an addict, right? And in the veteran community, therapists or counselor, while they're great, and they have their purpose, nothing replaces another

• 1:00:31Speaker 02

  veteran. So no, another veteran being, hey, I know, I know where you are right now, because I am you. I was there. And I know I haven't figured it out yet, but I know the direction I'm heading, and I can help you come along with me, and we can do it together. There's nothing that replaces that. And so, being able to sit across from someone at a peer level and help them, and let them, lead them to taking responsibility for themselves, because most of us, even those of us that don't think we're victims, because I would never label myself as a victim. But when you really look at these situations, most of the time, we put ourselves in a state of victimhood. We're like, I'm behaving this way because this happened to me. This person did this to me, this circumstance did this to me. And so, even, even though something else, or another person, or external circumstance,

• 1:01:14Speaker 02

  maybe 99% of the problem, if you own 1% of it, you can own 100% of that 1%, and take responsibility for your situation, and make a decision to move forward. And, again, that happens best on a peer level. There's, there's nothing that a therapist, or counselor, or spouse could tell one of these veterans struggling, in a way that one of our, one of our, one of our team leaders at Mighty Oaks, on a peer level, could tell them. And it's just, it's worked. I mean, and people like, have really been, you know, kind of blown away, especially military leaders, of what we do at Mighty Oaks, how it works so well. Like, what are you guys doing? Like, that's so special. And what are you doing the six days that we have in our initial intensive? And it's like, it's not really six days, or, you

• 1:01:57Speaker 02

  know, six months, or, it's one moment. The moment that a man or woman makes the decision to get out of their own way, and align their life to live their life the way they were created to live. And that, that moment happens, and this epiphany goes off. And then beyond that goes discipleship, and teaching them how to live that out. And that's where we bring, bring to the table for them. It's been, it's just amazing to watch happen. But yeah, it goes back to saving them from themselves, to lead them to take responsibility, and align their lives, which I believe the way, to align your lives biblically, the way you were created to live. And by the way, Mighty Oaks is a Christian program, but it's not really an evangelical program. But half the people that come to Mighty Oaks are not Christians. A lot of them are agnostic. We've been at Satanists come to our program. We have all

• 1:02:39Speaker 02

  kinds of people come to our program. But we, regardless of where they are, we teach them how to live the way we believe that the Bible intended us to live. And so, we teach them biblical principles of living. And the result of that has been evangelical, because many of them realize, oh, that's a much better way of living. And align their lives with that. We had, we had this amazing story of this, where this guy show up, someone sent him there, he didn't really know what he was getting into. He gets there, we're giving the brief, and they realizes this is a Christian program. And he comes to us at the end, he says, he goes, hey, like, I didn't realize this is a Christian program. It's probably not the place for me. He's got six, six, six tattoos across his neck, another satanic tattoo on his arm. He's like, he's like, hey, we were just like, hey, you don't have to believe what we believe. We, you're more welcome, we'd love you to stay here. You're gonna have a great time. Like, we're not gonna preach you all week. He's like, no, I do

• 1:03:23Speaker 02

  believe what you believe. I'm just an opposite team. I'm a deacon in this satanic church.

• 1:03:28Tucker Carlson?

  And how was that working for him? Pretty well?

• 1:03:29Speaker 02

  He stayed. Well, it wasn't, it obviously wasn't working well for him, because he was at our program, right? But, but he stayed, and at the end of the week-

• 1:03:36Tucker Carlson?

  Not a lot of success stories.

• 1:03:37Speaker 02

  Well, it's a success at the end, because he gives his life to Christ, and now he's a missionary, doing missionary work in Africa somewhere.

• 1:03:43Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 1:03:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. So it's like, he didn't come for the evangelical side of it. But when you realize, my life's a mess, but there is actually a handbook, I just haven't read it and applied it to my life. When I do, you know, it tends to work out better.

• 1:03:57Tucker Carlson?

  So these are all people who have worked for the US government at one point?

• 1:04:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, I mean, we do first responders as well, so local government as well, yeah.

• 1:04:05Tucker Carlson?

  And they've all been gravely damaged by it.

• 1:04:07Speaker 02

  And the governments, local and federal, have no real answer. And I've been, I've been on the Hill for quite some time, you know, and, and at the VA, and you know, still to this day, I've done, I've done so much with the VA, and even was the chairman of Office of Faith-based Programs for Veteran Affairs under President Trump. And they still have not conceded to, to making programs like Mighty Oaks available institutionally through the government. They use us, but they won't make it available.

• 1:04:36Tucker Carlson?

  Well, they definitely use you. It's been 20 years since people started saying out loud, hey, the VA, when you show up at the VA, and you're damaged physically or psychologically from serving your country in a war zone, they just hand you a bunch of pills. And a lot of those pills are killing people. That was 20 years ago, people started saying that. And they're still doing it.

• 1:04:58Speaker 02

  Still doing it. Look, when a, when a veteran comes and expresses symptoms of like anxiety, depression, like, they don't even, they don't do a simple blood work test to see if their, their cortisol levels were spiked, and their hormones level pushed down, the testosterone's pushed down, they just automatically give them SSRI. It could be a very temporary thing that could be solved if they just look at the blood work, but they just instant SSRI. And by the way, when you get put on an SSRI, unless you choose at some point to have intervention into that process, it's for life. Like, you don't just get off of an SSRI after you've been on it for a period of time. You have to, I mean, it takes quite some time to be able to wean yourself off of an SSRI. It's so mind altering, altering to your, your body, your system. So it's-

• 1:05:41Tucker Carlson?

  And we don't even have guidelines yet from HHS on weaning from SSRI. There's been basically, there are people now, one of whom is a good friend of mine, who are working on that, but we still don't have them. And it's been, I don't know, it's been 30 years at least that we've known that SSRI's have-

• 1:05:57Speaker 02

  When I got off, when I got off, and I weaned off for about a year, it took another year before my, I would feel like my brain was vibrating.

• 1:06:05Tucker Carlson?

  How long were you on them?

• 1:06:07Speaker 02

  Probably like 10 years.

• 1:06:08Tucker Carlson?

  What were the side effects?

• 1:06:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, this, I think the side effects were numbing. Like, I felt very emotionally numb. And I would really be in conflict with this, because I've always been a very like compassionate person, have empathy and compassion. I felt like just numb all the time.

• 1:06:25Tucker Carlson?

  You felt less empathy and compassion for other people?

• 1:06:27Speaker 02

  Very much so, yeah.

• 1:06:29Tucker Carlson?

  Really? And you noticed it?

• 1:06:30Speaker 02

  I noticed it, yeah. It's very much out of character for me. And when I say about 10 years, like, I was on and off. I'd get off, I'd get off, and I'd, and I'd feel like I had to go back on, because I'd have, you know, feeling anxiety ramping up. And I was terrified of panic attacks. So-

• 1:06:44Tucker Carlson?

  The scariest thing-

• 1:06:45Speaker 02

  The fear of panic attacks would push me back on. And so eventually, you know, I was able to finally get off. But even as, after I was completely off, for like a year, I still felt this like vibrating, like my, like my brain was vibrating, from, and which I attributed to a symptom of getting off of SSRI. And this is pretty common, that people talk about the same type of physiological feeling.

• 1:07:09Tucker Carlson?

  If SSRI's worked, the suicide rate would be going down.

• 1:07:13Speaker 02

  But they don't, they're hoping to go up.

• 1:07:15Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 1:07:15Speaker 02

  In fact, one of the warnings on the SSRI, SSRI's is it increases suicide radiations.

• 1:07:21Tucker Carlson?

  So if this is a drug that we give people who are suicidal, but it increases the chance they'll kill themselves, like, what is that?

• 1:07:27Speaker 02

  What's the point? Right? Right?

• 1:07:29Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. So, speaking of government misdeeds, I want to end on this because I think it's really, really interesting. So there have been, I mean, for my whole life in journalism, 35 years, I've gotten letters from people I assumed were schizophrenics, saying something, they're all saying the same thing. The government is sending me messages in my brain and telling me what to think. And I've never one time taken that seriously.

• 1:07:51Speaker 02

  It's my favorite episode on Shadow.

• 1:07:52Tucker Carlson?

  Should I take it seriously?

• 1:07:54Speaker 02

  You absolutely should. So in episode seven of Shadow Figures, as you make the, we're making this show, I thought, I looked at what we were doing and I'm like, this is the one that I'm like, we're gonna waste money and waste time in doing this. And it was the most compelling, like, thing to me personally of the show. So we looked at a Project Blue Beam scenario, which Project Blue Beam would be deceiving mankind into maybe like a fake alien invasion or something, to bring everyone together to gain control of a population of people. And so there's many things, many scenarios. So what's one thing that we could test to see if we could do and see, let's test to see if we could put voices into people's minds. And so we got this sound expert to come on this show as our shadow figure. Well, he came on as a subject matter expert. And, and, and he

• 1:08:39Speaker 02

  had Radio Shack level equipment, not a government budget. And we built an ultrasonic sound laser and to put voices into your mind, just like, if you ever used the shock, like bone connecting devices?

• 1:08:53Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:08:53Speaker 02

  Without the physical touch there, it would be done through a, a, a sound wave. And so you could do one person, because you could point to one person, two people, three, a group of people, you could do whatever you could, but, so for the experiment, we wanted to bring in people that we thought would be hard to deceive. So we brought in two police officers, and we told them that we were doing a telepathy experiment. So we lied to them. They thought, they believed we were doing a telepathy experiment. We wanted to see if we could convince them that we were actually doing telepathy, but we're using mechanical, a mechanical weapon, sound weapon. And so we were able to convince them of that, both, of that. And, and I had this done.

• 1:09:32Tucker Carlson?

  What did you do?

• 1:09:33Speaker 02

  So we, we, we put them in a separate room.

• 1:09:36Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:09:36Speaker 02

  And we, we made, we had them writing down between them, a thought. And then we would, we would tell them what that thought was, because we had someone witnessing it, that we were communicating through the sound, the sound to. And then we, and then once we convinced them of that, then we put them, we put them in the, in this chair with their partner next to them, so that the partner could see that nothing was, strange was happening. And we shot the laser at them. So we had this one female police officer, we shot the laser at her, talking to her, but our partner couldn't hear it. So he's like, I don't hear anything. She's like, I hear something. You hear that? And he's like, I don't hear anything. And she's like, am I crazy? She was, I mean, it made me feel bad, because we actually freaked her out pretty bad. And so we were able to talk, to communicate with her. And

• 1:10:19Speaker 02

  it's just, it feels like it's in your mind. I had it done to me, when we did it, it feels like it's in your mind. And now you could also do your own voice. I could record your voice, I got your voice everywhere, your voice, you know, Tucker Carlson's voice is everywhere on the internet. I could take your voice, put it in a system, and, and program the words, and, and in your own voice, put in your head. Or I can make a voice of God. And, and, and now you're hearing this maybe one time, maybe over every day, we give little whispers, and convince you, somebody like you, if we could really convince you, you know, you have a big audience, you're affluent, like, we could really sway a population by controlling voices, putting voices in your head.

• 1:10:53Tucker Carlson?

  What are the mechanics of it?

• 1:10:54Speaker 02

  So it's, it's, it's a high frequency, can get the specifics, but it's a high frequency ultrasonic, laser that shoots out this ultrasonic sound, and it's vibration. So it comes out so much, if you imagine that shock, bone conductor?

• 1:11:14Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:11:14Speaker 02

  And that vibrates, but it's actually doing it through the, the sound. So vibration that sound. So it works the same way, but you're not hearing it through your ears, you're hearing it inside your head.

• 1:11:23Tucker Carlson?

  Okay, so you don't perceive it as a voice, you perceive it as something that's taking place inside your head?

• 1:11:27Speaker 02

  Inside your head. Yep.

• 1:11:29Tucker Carlson?

  So it's not like you turn to find out where it came from?

• 1:11:31Speaker 02

  No, no, no, it's not like that. It kind of like, it almost feels audible, because you hear it audibly, but you hear it audibly in your head, not in, not through your ear canal, because it's not coming through your canal, it's coming through.

• 1:11:43Tucker Carlson?

  At what distance can you do this?

• 1:11:45Speaker 02

  He, you could do it at least, he said with the equipment we had, we could do at least 200 yards. We were doing it at a

• 1:11:50Tucker Carlson?

  200 yards?

• 1:11:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, we were doing it, we were doing it at about 25 yards in the tests. But he said, with his equipment, you could do it like, now, now, again, this is Radio Shack level equipment. Imagine what a government could do.

• 1:12:01Tucker Carlson?

  Does the government use this?

• 1:12:03Speaker 02

  Of course they do. If we, if we were able to do it, of course they, they have the ability to do that. I have no evidence of that. But why wouldn't we? At first, I was, at first I was like, this, this is incredible. And then I thought for a second, I'm like, this is terrifying. The level of influence that you could have over an individual, or a group of people, or mass group of people, to be able to do that is terrifying.

• 1:12:27Tucker Carlson?

  Well, yeah, it's one thing to convince someone, it's another thing to control someone to the point where he thinks he thought of it himself.

• 1:12:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:33Tucker Carlson?

  Like, that's true conviction.

• 1:12:35Speaker 02

  It makes someone go crazy. You could drive someone nuts doing this.

• 1:12:38Tucker Carlson?

  And then they'd write me letters. My text is public, so it's like, they probably text me all the time.

• 1:12:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, yeah, it was, of all the episodes we've done, that one, that's our episode seven, which, you know, probably we call it Project Blue Beam episode. It was, it was.

• 1:12:54Tucker Carlson?

  So you're doing all these episodes, and you're learning about every single story that you investigate, but we don't have conclusive answers to any of this. Do you think that at some point we will? Do you think that in the end this will all be revealed? Like, what's your personal view of that?

• 1:13:11Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, I think in, into the age, you know, beyond this life, everything will be revealed to us. But in our lifetime, on this earth, I don't think so. I think there's gonna be, you know, there's so much obstruction to truth. I think there's, there's many things that we, we're gonna continue to be hidden to us, from us, to the end of this age. I certainly want to keep digging. We did, we did Shadow Figures, it's our first, first season. There's so much more I want to do. I want to go, you know, to Turkey and look at the megalithic sites there. I want to go to Egypt and, and Antarctica. And I want to find out, is there a wall in Antarctica? I want to, what's the Black Pyramid? There's so many things I want, I want to do.

• 1:13:51Tucker Carlson?

  There's a Black Pyramid in Antarctica?

• 1:13:53Speaker 02

  Yes, it's, it's, it's, it looks like the tip of this pyramid. It's, and, and it's in.

• 1:13:59Tucker Carlson?

  Well, this is on Google Maps.

• 1:14:01Speaker 02

  What's that?

• 1:14:01Tucker Carlson?

  This is on Google Maps, I think. You can look it up.

• 1:14:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, you can look it up. And it's, boy, it's, no one's allowed to go there. So we want to go there.

• 1:14:08Tucker Carlson?

  Says who?

• 1:14:09Speaker 02

  Says all the, I mean, multiple governments of the world control Antarctica and prohibit permission to go there. Why? No one knows. But why, you know, why can't we go? Who cares if you go across a piece of ice?

• 1:14:21Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, what are you gonna do about it?

• 1:14:23Speaker 02

  What's in Antarctica that, that, what's in Antarctica? Again, back to what we said earlier, if somebody's trying to stop you from accessing something, it's probably because there's some answers there. And

• 1:14:33Tucker Carlson?

  Well, certainly the truth is the only thing that ever gets suppressed.

• 1:14:36Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 1:14:37Tucker Carlson?

  They don't care about misinformation, they care about information.

• 1:14:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I, I, I mean, the Black Pyramid, there's other things in Antarctica I'd love to see. I mean, the guys at Pyramids have so many mysteries to them. There's a lot that, that, that doing this season. I mean, each, each of these episodes, we don't have any, we don't come just to spoiler, like, we don't get a conclusive evidence of anything in these episodes. We test a theory in each one. And so there's lots of unanswered questions. And, and I certainly want to, you know, want those answers.

• 1:15:04Tucker Carlson?

  Man. Chad, thank you for doing this. Thanks for the episodes, and thank you for this conversation. I appreciate it.

• 1:15:10Speaker 02

  Thanks for, thanks for partnering with us in this. It's amazing, amazing to get this out to the people.

• 1:15:15Tucker Carlson?

  I am curious, and I, and I just want to keep reminding myself and say out loud, I don't know the answer to any question, really, or many questions. But I think it's worth pursuing the truth, regardless.

• 1:15:25Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 1:15:27Tucker Carlson?

  Thank you.

• 1:15:27Speaker 02

  Thank you.