Hacker Kim Dotcom Issues Dark Warning on Surveillance, Electronic Voting Machines, and Nuclear War

Kim Dotcom knows what it’s like to be spied on. He’s a hacker, and therefore an expert on digital surveillance. He watched our new docuseries on internet privacy, so we invited him to talk to us. What followed was very dark. Paid partnerships with: Vulnerable People Project: Stand with Christians in the land where Christianity began, go to SaveWestBankChristians.com Dose: Daily supplements for the systems that support you. Use code TUCKER for 35% at https://dosedaily.co/tucker TCNetwork: Watch ‘The World Is Watching You’ only on https://watchtcn.co/4fTWqnf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  Kim.com, thank you very much. Thank you very much for doing this. How much privacy do we have as citizens of New Zealand or the United States?

• 0:45Speaker 02

  Not much, because the government is surveilling everybody.

• 0:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  How are they doing that?

• 0:56Speaker 02

  They have massive surveillance programs that are designed to catch every phone call, video call, everything you do.

• 1:12Speaker 01

  What is the purpose of that? Why are they surveilling their own populations?

• 1:18Speaker 02

  Because they can create a profile of their citizens and then use the data to basically put the people in categories and influence them as well. So it's not just surveillance. It's also a mind-erasing in terms of elections or something.

• 1:50Speaker 01

  Okay, so you believe the government is tailoring its propaganda to the population based on profiles that they've assembled, like Facebook does for advertising?

• 2:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. So if they want, for example, support for a war, they can use this system to convince people.

• 2:19Speaker 01

  Interesting. How do you? How do you get out of it? How do you find privacy in a panopticon like this?

• 2:27Speaker 02

  Don't be connected to the internet. It's the only way. Yeah.

• 2:34Speaker 01

  Don't be. But if you're not connected to the internet, then you can't communicate with people except in your living room.

• 2:41Speaker 02

  It's true, but it's a high price to pay. If you're online,

• 2:49Speaker 02

  you have to know that everything you do is being watched and listened to.

• 2:57Speaker 01

  Why is there no way out? Why is there no phone or laptop or tablet that allows me to communicate with you without being spied on?

• 3:11Speaker 02

  Because the US government has a lot of fingers in the technology. So every website that you visit, every tool that you use, every hardware that you use is controlled by the US government bots. Yeah.

• 3:36Speaker 01

  So this is not a new phenomenon. You were indicted, I think, in 2011, 2012, a long time ago. Is that, what year was it?

• 3:47Speaker 02

  In 2012.

• 3:49Speaker 01

  2012. So 14 years ago, what you were doing, you're basically allowing people to upload large files privately on the internet. I think that's what you were doing. And that was so threatening that the US government tried to put you in prison.

• 4:07Speaker 02

  No, what was really threatening was I gave money to WikiLeaks and Julian Assange. So the US government saw me as a person of interest because of that. And everything that followed is because of my support for the truth.

• 4:33Speaker 01

  For Julian Assange?

• 4:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:36Speaker 01

  And what?

• 4:37Speaker 02

  When Julian came out with the video collateral murder, maybe you remember that, I was touched by it and gave a lot of money to WikiLeaks.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  And then what happened after you did that?

• 4:56Speaker 02

  I was charged with copyright infringement. So what my users uploaded to my website, they said I'm responsible for that.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  But wouldn't Facebook be responsible for every criminal who uses a meta-product? Wouldn't Google be responsible for any criminal who uses their search engine? Why? I mean, this is a new, I've never heard of this principle before.

• 5:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. The big difference is they did not give money to WikiLeaks or Julian Assange.

• 5:33Speaker 01

  So what? What? What did they charge you with? And what was the penalty?

• 5:40Speaker 02

  They charged me with a REKOX. So they not only say I'm a criminal because I allowed people to use my websites for infringement, they said I planted with other people. Stupid.

• 6:04Speaker 01

  And what were the penalties for this?

• 6:08Speaker 02

  Oh, they want to put me in jail for 186 years.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  I'm sorry to laugh. 186 years for copyright infringement?

• 6:19Speaker 02

  Oh, that's what you get if you support Julian Assange.

• 6:26Speaker 01

  Well, I do support Julian Assange, so I hope that's not coming for me. So whatever happened to the charges?

• 6:34Speaker 02

  Oh, they want to extradite me from New Zealand to the United States.

• 6:42Speaker 01

  Are they still trying to do that?

• 6:44Speaker 02

  No.

• 6:46Speaker 02

  Even after my stroke, they are still trying to do that.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  Are you worried that they'll be able to?

• 6:56Speaker 02

  Oh, they would want to. I'm, I have no doubt.

• 7:02Speaker 02

  But I don't know if they can because I'm not the same person anymore after my stroke. So if they really want to go ahead, they are up for a big challenge.

• 7:20Speaker 01

  What would happen if you were to use your money to build a phone that was truly private, that the US government could not listen to?

• 7:32Speaker 02

  I did something like that when I was still the creator of Meka. So I had an encrypted communication tool. But now, who's running Meka is no longer trustworthy.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  But why hasn't anyone done that? I mean, it seems like the one thing we could use to regain our freedom is a communications, a simple communications device that's actually private.

• 8:07Speaker 02

  In the US, you can't. So if you put out an encrypted device, then the government will just send you a letter saying you have to give us a big door, go to jail. You know? This is legally possible in the US. The government can just send you a letter to say, give me a big door.

• 8:33Speaker 01

  And what if you say no?

• 8:37Speaker 02

  They put you in jail.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  So it is illegal in the United States to communicate privately?

• 8:45Speaker 02

  It's illegal, yeah. No, they say you have freedom of speech, but you don't. And you know, it's a joke.

• 8:56Speaker 01

  Does any country have freedom of speech?

• 8:59Speaker 02

  Hmm. You have a certain degrees of freedom of speech, but it's not like it used to be, you know, where your privacy is protected. Under the UN Charter, we are all protected, you know? The US just doesn't care. And because the US, we know this from Alfred Snowden is fine on everybody. Everyone else is, you know?

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• 12:54Speaker 01

  Thanks. It's, I'm not sure most Americans understand any of this. Are any communications apps, Signal, WhatsApp, iMessage, or any of them actually secure?

• 13:11Speaker 02

  No.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Not even Signal?

• 13:15Speaker 02

  No, no, no, not at all. Signal is the worst.

• 13:20Speaker 01

  What, how is Signal the worst?

• 13:23Speaker 02

  Because everyone is using it, and the US government is laughing because they have a big door. Yeah.

• 13:32Speaker 01

  But I mean, people with, I happen to know, with real secrets use Signal, and they're convinced that no one can hear or read them on Signal, but they're, they're wrong, you're sure of that?

• 13:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. So Signal is not secure. There's nothing I would recommend other than not using any communication tools at all.

• 13:56Speaker 01

  Really? So if you wanted to, I don't know, organize resistance to tyranny, you couldn't?

• 14:05Speaker 02

  No, you can't.

• 14:08Speaker 01

  Have you given up?

• 14:12Speaker 02

  No, it's true. You can't, because all the tools are being watched. Yeah.

• 14:22Speaker 01

  How will AI change this picture?

• 14:26Speaker 02

  AI is very dangerous because it will get access to the US database for this kind of data mining. So the AI will know everything about everybody. Yeah.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  Huh, and there's no way to stop that?

• 14:51Speaker 02

  Don't have AI, don't have internet. It's the only way.

• 14:58Speaker 01

  What, why is the US planning on building so many data centers?

• 15:05Speaker 02

  It's already building huge data centers because it takes, collects about 10 petabyte of data a day. So it's a lot, yeah. All communications, everything.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  So that, why is the United States building so many more data centers than China is? Do you know?

• 15:34Speaker 02

  Hmm. You can't say that because you're being told that. You know, China is not far behind the US when it comes to AI. You're only being told that. It's propaganda. You know, Obama made it legal to propagandize US citizens. So you can't believe anything they say. Yeah.

• 16:07Speaker 01

  Are American media outlets part of that effort to propagandize the public?

• 16:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course. You know, whoever controls them controls the public. So any access to the media today is controlled. Yeah.

• 16:30Speaker 01

  So in the US, there's been a rise of independent media. Some of them have big platforms, reach a lot of people, and they're, well, having conversations like this, they're against the program. How long can that last, do you think?

• 16:46Speaker 02

  It's okay that there's independent media, and you are one of them. So it's very good to have you, you know? But there will be a crackdown sooner or later on everybody that is still not controlled. Yeah.

• 17:08Speaker 01

  And what can people do to fight back against that crackdown?

• 17:14Speaker 02

  Not much. You see, the power of the government is very strong. So there's not much you can do about it.

• 17:29Speaker 01

  You don't seem very hopeful, are you?

• 17:32Speaker 02

  It's a reality. What can I tell you? It's the truth, yeah.

• 17:39Speaker 01

  Are there any free countries, or what is the freest country, do you think, right now, where people can say what they think with the most latitude?

• 17:47Speaker 02

  I think Switzerland is very good. Yeah, Switzerland, because they have direct democracy, not a representative democracy. So the people decide. It's people power. I bring that in to New Zealand this election. So with the Freedom Party, we will have a direct democracy available here.

• 18:24Speaker 01

  Do you think that direct democracy will spread to other countries?

• 18:28Speaker 02

  I think it's the only way because politicians are not honest people. They only look for how to make a lot of money, you know. So a direct democracy is the answer.

• 18:48Speaker 01

  Do you think that the war in Iran will change America's place in the world? What does the world look like in 10 years?

• 18:58Speaker 02

  So the US is struggling to remain number one. You know, the unipolar system that the US had for many decades. They are fighting for it, but the US is too much depth. They're going down and there's nothing that can prevent that. So I think in the next few years, we will see a lot of negative things in the world because of that.

• 19:42Speaker 01

  What kind of negative things?

• 19:46Speaker 02

  So the West is highly dependent on the US not going under. You know, the war in Ukraine will be lost. The war in Iran will be lost. USA will go into a big depression because of the debt. I think financially the world is heading into turmoil.

• 20:18Speaker 01

  How is the war in Ukraine resolved? What does that look like?

• 20:23Speaker 02

  It looks like now on the battlefield, you know. So Russia will win against Ukraine and I don't think there will be a settlement.

• 20:38Speaker 01

  Do you believe that NATO will continue to attack Russia?

• 20:45Speaker 02

  I think the attacks on Russia will continue for many years. I don't see the US and Europe giving up. So I think what Russia has to prepare for is a bigger war.

• 21:09Speaker 01

  A bigger war with directly with the United States and Europe?

• 21:14Speaker 02

  With Europe, yeah.

• 21:16Speaker 01

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• 22:44Speaker 01

  but most of the time the truth is even worse than that. All of the apparently free services you've enjoyed, you've actually paid for, but not with money. You've paid for these with your privacy.

• 22:54Speaker 05

  Five billion consumers are in our identity graph, five billion. How many people are on Earth? Seven billion, two billion to go.

• 23:03Speaker 01

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• 23:19Speaker 01

  By the end of this series, you will be upset because you will understand how the surveillance economy works and what you can do to protect your privacy. The world is watching you exclusively on TuckerCarlson.com.

• 23:31Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

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• 24:24Speaker 01

  You think that this will evolve or devolve into a direct conflict between NATO and Russia, where Russia is hitting Europe, Europe is hitting Russia?

• 24:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think so.

• 24:40Speaker 01

  And who wins?

• 24:43Speaker 02

  Russia, of course, because Europe has no armies. You know NATO is too less tiger. Yeah.

• 24:56Speaker 01

  Why would the Western powers, why would NATO want a war with Russia? I've never understood that.

• 25:04Speaker 02

  The alternative is the US loses and if the US loses, it will go down. You know, the West has invested a lot in the US. So all the debt is owned by debtors. Europe is a big debtor to the United States. So if the US stock markets, for example, go down, all the European companies that are listed in the US are also going down.

• 25:44Speaker 02

  So we are talking about a loss of maybe trillions, you know. It's not something that the West can do. They want to prevent the US from going under.

• 26:06Speaker 01

  I think, I understand that and I'd like to see the US not go under also, but I think they're accelerating the destruction of the United States. This is having the opposite effect. If you wanted to wreck the US and bring the empire to its knees in the most humiliating, painful, expensive way, this is what you would do.

• 26:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, but the debt has now reached levels that are unsustainable. So it's just a matter of time, you know. To run the US government costs 20 billion a day is impossible.

• 26:47Speaker 01

  It's impossible. That's right. What, what is the end of the Iran war? What does that look like?

• 26:57Speaker 02

  Iran will win because the US has no weapons and no army to invade. You know, you wonder where all the military money went because the US has the biggest budget for the military, yet they can't invade.

• 27:23Speaker 02

  So I think Iran will win.

• 27:29Speaker 01

  And then what happens to the United States? Does the US get out of the Middle East?

• 27:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 27:41Speaker 01

  What happens to American politics? Like what direction does it go, do you think, from your perspective?

• 27:50Speaker 02

  I think the only way to save America is for the people to vote directly. They're not through politicians. The only way I think to save America is a direct democracy.

• 28:11Speaker 01

  Do you think electronic voting machines are honest and reflect the will of the people? The votes that go into them?

• 28:20Speaker 02

  I don't trust them, yeah. I don't trust them because they are able to be manipulated. Yeah.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  You say that as fact. You know for certain that electronic voting machines can be manipulated?

• 28:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, they can.

• 28:42Speaker 01

  So why does the US still have them?

• 28:51Speaker 02

  Waiting for the right time to use them, I think.

• 28:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 28:58Speaker 01

  So, huh, that's, that's kind of grim. Do you see a risk of a nuclear exchange in, in Ukraine?

• 29:07Speaker 02

  Very likely, because if the US goes down, you know what is left? Thirty-nine trillion of debt can never be paid back. So it may take the rest of the world down with it.

• 29:28Speaker 01

  And so how do you get to nuclear weapons from there? Who uses nuclear weapons, do you think?

• 29:35Speaker 02

  I think the US, first against Iran and then against the world. Yeah, primarily Russia and China. But, you know, I saw this coming. This is the reason why I am in New Zealand, because it's in the middle of nowhere.

• 30:02Speaker 01

  It is the middle of nowhere. When did you see this coming?

• 30:08Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't know. Could be many years, could be tomorrow. I don't know.

• 30:17Speaker 01

  But you saw this years ago. You believed this was going to happen?

• 30:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. Okay, yeah, I did. I brought my family to safety.

• 30:31Speaker 02

  Whatever is safe.

• 30:34Speaker 01

  Are you safe?

• 30:35Speaker 02

  I don't know. Maybe, maybe if I'm extradited to the US, I will die in a nuclear holocaust, I think.

• 30:48Speaker 01

  Oh, so you're, you're certain that's coming?

• 30:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:57Speaker 01

  Do you think it's likely that Israel uses nuclear weapons?

• 31:02Speaker 02

  Possibly. Why does Israel have nuclear weapons in the first place? Because they spied on the US for the technology. And then they started their own nuclear program. Everybody in the world knows that they have nuclear weapons. Yet they go to war against Iraq, against Iran, trying to prevent them from having nuclear weapons. You know, the first country that should give up nuclear weapons is Israel. Yeah.

• 31:46Speaker 01

  I don't think they're going to.

• 31:50Speaker 02

  No, of course not.

• 31:53Speaker 01

  Can, can you explain, you said at the outset that you were indicted and now they're trying to extradite you because you supported Julian Assange?

• 32:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:03Speaker 01

  Julian Assange famously printed American secret documents and videos on WikiLeaks on the internet.

• 32:13Speaker 01

  But the US government seemed very focused on killing him. Why was he such a threat?

• 32:21Speaker 02

  Because he was selling the truth and got in the way of the plans of the US deep state. You know, so anything that he has in terms of support was attacked. Yeah.

• 32:44Speaker 01

  Why, why do you think Donald Trump, after spending 10 years saying he wouldn't start a regime change war with Iran, did in February start a regime change war with Iran?

• 32:56Speaker 02

  Donald Trump is a big liar. So anything he says, he just said to become president. I wouldn't believe a word he says. He's the biggest liar in the, in the world.

• 33:12Speaker 01

  What do you think his goal is? What's his agenda? Why is he doing this?

• 33:18Speaker 02

  Oh, I think he wants to become more than the president of the United States. He wants to make Italy, you know. I think a nuclear war with him is very likely because of his narcissism and his character flaws. Yeah.

• 33:47Speaker 01

  But starting a nuclear war would eliminate everybody. I mean, there would be no history after that.

• 33:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, but he is 80 years old. So he is looking for the exit.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  And you think nuclear war is the exit?

• 34:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:15Speaker 01

  Is there anything that can be done to stop that?

• 34:19Speaker 02

  Not much.

• 34:23Speaker 02

  Revolt, maybe a revolution in the United States. You know, not have a fool like Trump be president.

• 34:42Speaker 01

  Do you think the deep state agrees with Trump on the question of using nuclear weapons?

• 34:49Speaker 02

  So you need to understand one thing. The deep state has a big budget for keeping Russia and China surveilled. So if they have no longer the enemy of Russia and China, the US deep state loses 40% of the budget. So they need to keep Russia and China the eternal enemy to make money.

• 35:24Speaker 01

  Yes. So, so really a nuclear war is not in anybody's interest?

• 35:32Speaker 02

  No, of course not.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  No, of course not. Do you think that Europe, where you're from, you're obviously German, does Europe have a future as European?

• 35:46Speaker 02

  Hmm. If they make peace with Russia, yes. If they cut ties with the US, yes. If the US keeps them as a versus states, they have no chance to survive. Yeah.

• 36:10Speaker 01

  Do you believe Putin is secure in his job?

• 36:15Speaker 02

  Putin has over 80% approval rating in Russia. So I think he's pretty safe. Yeah.

• 36:25Speaker 01

  He's pretty safe.

• 36:28Speaker 01

  And last question, how have you been able to keep from being extradited? When New Zealand is a small country without a meaningful military, the United States wants to extradite you. How have you been able to convince the authorities in Auckland not to send you to the United States?

• 36:47Speaker 02

  Not convince the authorities. It's a process, you know. I'm fighting extradition wherever I can. So my lawyers are fighting it and using the process to fight it because that's all I can do.

• 37:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, rooting for you and for the world. Kim.com, thank you. I know you don't do a lot of interviews and so I'm grateful you did this one. And thanks.

• 37:20Speaker 02

  No problem.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  Great to see you. Thank you.