Inside a Ransom Exchange With Somali Pirates | David Leaning

Dave Leaning recounts his path from the Royal Marines and Afghanistan to the little-seen world of private maritime security and counter-piracy operations off East Africa. He takes us inside ransom deliveries, hostage recoveries, armed encounters with Somali pirates, and the missions that ultimately gave him a sense of closure after war. https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-leaning-04014439 Today's Sponsors: Quince⬇️ go to: https://www.quince.com/house for free shipping and 365 day returns GhostBed ⬇️ https://www.ghostbed.com/house FOR 10% off! Blue Chew ⬇️ https://bluechew.com/ Get 1 month free when you buy 2 of BlueChew Gold with code "HOUSECALL" For ad free video and audio and access to live streams and Eyes On Geopolitics... JOIN OUR PATREON! https://www.patreon.com/c/TheTeamHouse To help support the show and for all bonus content including: -live shows and asking guest questions -ad free audio and video -early access to shows -Access to ALL bonus segments with our guests Subscribe to our Patreon! ⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse Support the show here:⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse ___________________________________________________ ORDER JACK'S NEW BOOK "THE MOST DANGEROUS MAN" ⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️ https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/803651/the-most-dangerous-man-by-jack-murphy/paperback/ Subscribe to the new EYES ON podcast here:⬇️ https://www.youtube.com/@EyesOnGeopoliticsPod/featured __________________________________ Jack Murphy's book "We Defy: The Lost Chapters of Special Forces History" ⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/We-Defy-Chapters-Special-History-ebook/dp/B0DCGC1N1N/ —————————————————————— Or make a one time donation at: ⬇️ https://ko-fi.com/theteamhouse Social Media: ⬇️ The Team House Instagram: https://instagram.com/the.team.house?utm_medium=copy_link The Team House Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheTeamHousePod Jack’s Instagram: https://instagram.com/jackmcmurph?utm_medium=copy_link Jack’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/jackmurphyrgr?s=21 Team House Discord: ⬇️ https://discord.gg/wHFHYM6 "Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio" 00:00 – Start 01:12 – Joining the Royal Marines 04:01 – Fighting in Afghanistan 12:52 – Leaving the Marines & Searching for What’s Next 16:20 – The Call That Changed Everything 21:14 – A Mysterious Private Security Job 27:48 – The Mission: Deliver a Ransom to Somali Pirates 33:20 – How Pirate Ransom Negotiations Actually Work 40:01 – Heading Into Pirate Waters Seriously Undergunned 52:20 – Arriving in Somalia & Meeting the Pirates 59:50 – Handing Over the Ransom 1:04:13 – 40 Armed Pirates & a Hostage Exchange Going Wrong 1:07:29 – A Second Pirate Gang Arrives 1:21:03 – Pirates Attack the Tugboats 1:28:18 – Life as an Anti-Piracy Contractor 1:33:39 – Leading His Own Armed Security Team 1:38:22 – Another Pirate Skiff Is Coming Straight for Them 1:43:43 – Taking Control Before the Firefight 1:50:28 – Opening Fire on the Pirates 1:54:47 – Trying to Leave the Security World Behind 2:00:15 – His Final Ransom Mission 2:10:11 – The Unexpected Happy Ending Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 01

  911, what's your emergency? Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets. 911 Nashville returns.

• 0:41Speaker 02

  What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground.

• 0:44Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 0:47Speaker 02

  Hell, since swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 0:54Speaker 01

  Brian Philippi joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:00Speaker 03

  I've got a theory, and I don't know if, I've not, I've never heard this from anyone else, but it's, I like, I'm not sure if I believe it, but the theory goes for Somalis, gunfire isn't necessarily an attempt on your life, it's a form of dialogue.

• 1:18Jack Murphy?

  East African proverb.

• 1:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, um, so you could take it as that, or you could take it, you know, us in the Western world, you know, when someone shoots at you, you're like, okay, it's on. You mean to kill me and I am, you know, emboldened to use the same measures against you. But for them, maybe it's not quite the same as that. Maybe it's just an escalation in the dialogue or a way of saying, hey, I see you. Apple.

• 1:45Jack Murphy?

  Hey, everyone, I'm Jack Murphy. This is the Team House, and tonight's guest is Dave Leaning. Dave served as a Royal Marine, and then he worked for a number of different private military companies doing counter piracy work in Africa. So this is sort of a unique episode, and I think Dave has some pretty unique insights working the piracy issue, doing things like ransom deliveries, hostage recoveries, and all sorts of interesting anecdotes as we go on. But Dave, welcome to the show. I'm happy to have you here.

• 2:16Speaker 03

  Thank you very much, Jack, for the introduction, and thank you for having me. It's a huge honor, and I definitely feel a bit of imposter syndrome being here, given that you've had some very eminent guests and speakers on before me, but I'll try and do my best and sort of recount some of the experiences I had and hopefully have something to share with your audience and shed light on a subject which I don't think many people have covered before. So, yeah, let's, let's get into it.

• 2:47Jack Murphy?

  So, start at the beginning. Tell us a little bit about what your pathway was into the Royal Marines.

• 2:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I'd been to university, college you call it here, and I hadn't actually thought of joining until I found myself at a sort of a loss as to what to do. And my old man had been in the military, he'd been an army commando. And, yeah, I figured, why not give it a go? Why not do four years, see if I was as tough as my old man was, get the Green Beret, and see if I can, you know, get a war under my belt? Because as a young man, all that kind of stuff seemed exciting, and was definitely very appealing. So, you know, I showed up at an recruiting center, got fed all the lies about what great

• 3:38Speaker 03

  stuff I would get to do, and, you know, showed up at Limpston Commando one day at that, that train station, that platform that you go through, and began the, the process to becoming a Royal Marine commander. I, you know, got through the commander course, I broke both my feet, had to spend 12, no, 16 weeks in rehabilitation, then rejoined a troop, and then, yeah, went on, did my, my service, did the minimum contract, the four years, one month and one day, not that anyone was counting by that stage. And, yeah, I got a tour of Afghanistan. It was an adventure, you know, we can, we can circle back to commando training and

• 4:19Speaker 03

  that, that experience and my time in Afghanistan, which, interestingly enough, actually sort of intersects with one of your recent guests, Jay, Jay Morton.

• 4:30Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 4:31Speaker 03

  22nd SAS. He was talking about the exact same places that I was. We relieved his company. I think he was three para, and I was Lima Company 42 Commando, and we, it was Opsera, the relief in place of three para. And so I know the exact position he was talking about. And he mentioned an orchard at that position in Sangin. Let me just cover up the, my upper there. That is that orchard.

• 5:01Jack Murphy?

  Wow.

• 5:02Speaker 03

  And the river that he mentioned, that is that river.

• 5:06Jack Murphy?

  You would swim in it? You guys are crazy.

• 5:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, you could bathe, and you could wash your clothes, have a swim. The Afghan National Army would sit out there watching you. So we christened them cock watchers after a while, because they seemed to drive enormous pleasure watching Marines.

• 5:22Jack Murphy?

  Sitting there, stroking their, stroking their beard.

• 5:25Speaker 03

  I don't know, whatever does it for them.

• 5:28Speaker 03

  But, yeah. Really random to watch that on your show a couple of weeks ago, and see that and be like, I was there, I did that.

• 5:36Jack Murphy?

  So, tell us about Afghanistan with the Royal Marines.

• 5:39Speaker 03

  Uh, well, I, I figured I would sort of skip past that and go to the, the unique selling point of my experience, because you've had tons of guys with way more operational experience than me. And really, I, I mean, I got to see some cool stuff, but I can't really add anything to that. But what I can do is talk about the piracy thing, which is a bit more unique.

• 5:59Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 6:00Speaker 03

  Probably what your, your viewers clicked on this because they wanted to know about piracy.

• 6:03Jack Murphy?

  We don't have to spend so much time dwelling on it, but if you want to share a couple like formative experiences in Afghanistan, and we can move on.

• 6:12Speaker 03

  Okay, well, all right. First, I'm gonna have to give myself a little bit of cerebral lubrication. And, oh, wouldn't you know, it's an opportunity to show you a little relic from that time. Do you recognize one of these?

• 6:25Jack Murphy?

  Is that a mortar round?

• 6:29Jack Murphy?

  Or no, that's an RPG. That's an RPG rocket, yeah.

• 6:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, and that was, I collected that from, it was the morning after a contact, a pretty decent one. And, yeah, I found that near our position when a several they fired at us. And it's got a neat trick as well.

• 6:51Speaker 03

  So, yeah, that was the shittest business trip I ever went on, but I got a free, free bottle opener from it.

• 6:58Jack Murphy?

  A good deal. You survived.

• 7:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, um, so, yeah, I, I didn't do an awful lot, you know, I got out in the ground, I saw Sangin, I was there for a couple of months.

• 7:14Speaker 03

  I got like, and like, the, the battle when we sort of relieved three para, you know, some of my friends were on the ground convoy coming in, the ground convoy never quite made it in, we flew in on Chinooks. Just flying in was pretty, was pretty raw, like, they tore all the seats out of the Chinooks so they could pack in as many guys as possible. We were sitting like three, three side by side, as many deep as we could, with each Marine had his legs wrapped around a Marine in front to squeeze us in as tight as they could, so it was all very, very intimate. And I remember at a certain point, the, the door gunners tested their guns as we were

• 7:58Speaker 03

  flying along, and the Marine to the left of me turned and smiled, and we were punching each other and saying, it's just like, it's just like that movie, what's it called? Full Metal Jacket, where the door gunner's shooting it. Yeah, it was, it was kind of like a movie. I mean, I'm probably gonna say this a lot of times, but when, when you grow up watching movies and TV, and something happens, and that's your only point of reference, you're like, wow, this is just like a movie. And so, yeah, at a certain point, the loadmaster told us to get up, stand up, and once again, it was like that Band of Brothers, where each man is lifting up the man behind them, and you have that moment where your eyes meet, and you're like, okay, for most of us, this is our first time going in.

• 8:38Speaker 03

  We know Sangin has been the hottest, the hottest patrol base in the whole of Helmand, and it's likely it's gonna get popped on the way in, and, you know, for, for most of my time there. And then, you know, maybe my mind is playing false with me, but I do distinctly remember one of the loadmasters calling out, or maybe he was just being dramatic, but it's hot LZ, hot LZ, and then starting to hear the sort of clack, clack of, of, you know, rounds going off, and rounds being fired, incoming and outgoing, and feeling that helicopter start to sway and lurch, and everyone's sort of, you know, trying to grab onto the man next to them, and then it coming in for that landing, the door gunner being, I think the door was

• 9:23Speaker 03

  already down, door was already down, of course it was, and then just seeing that orange haze, and just being told go, and running into it, and, yeah, I didn't, I didn't expect to be leading off with this, I thought I'd start with the piracy. And just thinking about it is giving me a little bit of a, little bit of a flutter. But, yeah, I, I had like a, almost like a, I was on top of the fire support tower for a lot of the battle, and I saw, I saw some pretty cool stuff. I remember seeing there was this one wood line called Wombat Wood, the paras had christened it, or the unit before had christened it, because they used to use these recoilless rifles known as wombats from that particular place.

• 10:06Speaker 03

  And I swear I saw a, one of those French Mirage jets, the thing that has like a Delta dagger type wing shape, dropping, like, I'm not even sure they were in Afghanistan at the time, but that's what I remember. And it flew over that tree line and dropped cluster bombs, and seeing them crack and burst like firecrackers, like fireworks, that was pretty cool. And then one guy taking potshots at us from around a wall, and just seeing a, you know, mortar, an 81 mortar dropped right on him, and just seeing that disappear where he was, disappear in a cloud of smoke. And, you know, you know, hearing RPGs coming overhead, Chinese 107s being fired, running

• 10:48Speaker 03

  for cover, falling down a staircase, and landing at the bottom in a pile of, you know, in a disgusting pile of snot with a, with a reporter, I think, who was actually from The Sun at the time, and...

• 11:00Speaker 03

  And then there was even like some guy who was doing a a to camera piece on the rooftop to a news channel with a cameraman behind, almost like um Full Metal Jacket again. And I just happened to be in the background. And I thought, I'm gonna turn and look at the camera, I'm gonna turn and look at the camera and give it a thousand yards there. So I did, and uh that must have been broadcast, because although I'd been lying to my dad saying, no, I'm all right, I'm safe, I'm on Camp Bastion. My aunt saw it and said, oh, I've seen him there. He's not on Camp Bastion anymore, he's been sent to the frontline, oh my god. But yeah, there was that and

• 11:38Speaker 03

  yeah, the um, seeing the paras, man, they'd been there for almost their whole tour. And their uniforms were worn and faded, they all had beards, they were tanned. And we were just, you know, all our gear was fresh out of the SU of the um, the stores. Not a speck of dirt or dust on it, every man was shaven and then I know, I guess, you know, two months later, we must have looked kind of like they did, because, well, you can see in the in the picture, I had a had a good old operational beard going there.

• 12:09Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah, your starter set.

• 12:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, uh, but uh, yeah, it was, it was some pretty wild experiences and uh

• 12:22Speaker 03

  but yeah, it it was, I'm not being funny, but within the first seventy two hours of getting on the ground and talking to the interpreters, I I almost called them Terps again, I know it's kind of pseudo derogatory term for them, but yeah, talking to them and, you know, having a shura with the locals, of which, of course, I wasn't invited, because I was, you know, a learning marine. Like, who's the uh, you know, the officers who would who would do that, but you could see the different types of people coming to the shura. You could see Afghans who were clearly Taliban, marking your positions, calculating your fire uh, numbers. And the hate was just rising off them, almost like a, like a, like a shimmer, like a heap haze you see on a, on a road on a hot day.

• 13:06Speaker 03

  And then you could see locals or elders and, you know, local leaders who were just in the middle trying to

• 13:14Speaker 03

  trying to figure out the way for everything to to get done with as least hassle as possible. And so it was like the three types that I came across, those who were just telling you what you, what they thought you wanted to hear. Those who hated you with a passion or wanted to see you dead, and those who would just get go along to get along and yeah, I'd been on the ground seventy two hours and I thought, I don't think this is gonna work. And twenty twenty one was rough, man. Uh, I I believe you did a, you did a tour of Gannas as well.

• 13:44Jack Murphy?

  Much earl- much earlier, like oh four, oh five.

• 13:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, and uh, it was, it was a foregone conclusion, I believe. I mean, I'm not just being smart about it, I I do remember thinking that at the time and uh like watching a train wreck in slow motion, final conclusion being, it was twenty twenty one, right, that fell? That was uh

• 14:06Jack Murphy?

  Twenty one or twenty two? Yeah, twenty one.

• 14:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was rough to see it happen and uh

• 14:13Speaker 03

  yeah, I'm, I'm, I tried to make a rule for myself, if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all, so, you know, we all know we all know the score that we're there, so let's just draw a line under it and move on.

• 14:27Jack Murphy?

  And when you got back from Afghanistan, uh, were you pretty much uh dead set on getting out of the Royal Marines at that point?

• 14:35Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, the Royal Marines um, uh, made a, made a huge mistake in losing me uh, when they sent me on a scuba course in Egypt. And I'd been trying to figure out, what do I want to do when I get out of the Corps, you know, am I gonna stay for four years, five years, whatever? And then they sent me on this scuba course, and I had like one of the best times of my life uh, in this resort called Gogada. While we were doing a couple paddy courses, and I was like, well, that's it, I'm gonna be a scuba instructor when I get out. That's, that is, that is all I aspired to, living by the sea, in the sunshine, and teaching scuba diving to pretty girls in bikinis. Um, I figured there was no higher calling in life, and uh, yeah, I made plans, dispositions, had a

• 15:20Speaker 03

  an internship lined up in Gibraltar, so as soon as I got out, I could use my post operational tour leave to uh, to get on that and um, yeah, get going. So yeah, when I got out, I uh, spent the summer there. Uh, first training as an instructor and then working and uh taking people out diving and working as a bouncer at a couple of bars and clubs in Gibraltar itself. Uh, I was living on a dilapidated yacht, that legend had it was owned by a uh, a former London gangster. I don't know if he really was or not, but he would come out every now and again the rest of the time. It was myself and a bunch of young people, backpackers from Australia, Europe, living on this uh, this yacht, the Marina, they called it a party boat.

• 16:05Speaker 03

  We had a great time, uh, loved diving, loved the, yeah, loved everything about it, it was the best post operationals, a decompression you go through. And yeah, one of the best summers of my life, um, did that and uh at the end of it, I was like, you know, I really miss having a, that that three sixty challenge, that's a challenge to mind, body and soul that for a cer- to a certain extent, you get from uniformed service. And so I came up with this plan to try and ski the length of Norway. Uh, it's an accepted sort of um

• 16:39Speaker 03

  Norwegian challenge, they call it Norge Par Langs, where you start at the southern tip of Norway, and then you ski I thought it was eighteen hundred miles, but I I read, I was researching it before doing this, and I saw someone say it's actually sixteen hundred, so not as much as I thought, but it took me a hundred and twenty two days in the snow. And uh, yeah, I got there, didn't think I would, there was a few things along the way that, you know, almost prevented me from doing it. And uh, yeah, I had a huge sense of accomplishment from that and uh, thought, right, now it's time for another season of scuba diving. Uh, went to a place called Antiparos, which is in the Cephalides Islands in uh, in Greece, um, had a great summer.

• 17:22Speaker 03

  You know, another one of the best of my life, uh, beautiful island, and if anyone is considering going on a diving holiday, Antiparos in Greece is a great destination, it's a really small island, it's only got like a, a summer popul- a winter population of five hundred. So it's much smaller and intimate than some of your bigger places like Naxos or um, uh, what's the one where you never mind, um and uh, yeah, great diving, great little town, nice tavernas, nice bars, nice square, had a great time, relaxed. And then got back home to my dad's house and said to myself, right, I'm in the mood for another challenge.

• 18:01Speaker 03

  And so I had this sort of embryonic idea to try and do something with the skills that the the Corps had given me. To do something positive that was beyond politics, because of course Afghan left a a little bit of a bitter taste in the mouth, you could say. Um, and I'd seen a few years before about how there was a uh, sort of poaching wars going on in in in East Africa. Uh, with, you know, some former military guys trying to fight the the poachers who were trying to kill the rhinos and the elephants for their, the ivory and the horn. And I thought that would be a cool thing to do. And uh, and then I heard through the grapevine um, that

• 18:45Speaker 03

  a a figure from my service um, who was gonna crop up a few times in this story, uh, was involved in that, and this figure was the guy who was the colonel in charge of the Commander Training Center when I passed through. A very charismatic and inspiring man, a huge man as well. Um, and he gives you your speech, he he gave to to my intake, the speech on your first day after you signed the form and you know, pledge your whatever to whatever, uh, and um, and then he was there at the end of the thirty miler and gave me the green beret when I completed that, and again, when I passed out.

• 19:24Speaker 03

  And uh, you know, he was a kind of a legendary figure in the, in the British Commandos, and he, he'd also been in the the SBS. And I believe he went on to command the SBS and the SES, but I'm not sure, at least one of them, maybe both. But who's counting at that stage? Uh, he was a very accomplished soldier and kind of a legend in the um, you know, British Commandos and British Special Forces. And anyone from my sort of um, generation who's been through will instantly know who I'm talking about. Uh, but I'm not gonna mention uh, him by name here, please edit it out if I do, um. So yeah, I'd heard he was involved in anti-poaching work. Um, I'd heard he'd been involved in in East Africa and in the Congo, uh.

• 20:11Speaker 03

  And I was able to dig up his number from somewhere and gave him a call out of the blue, as you do to, you know, a former commandant of Limston, who you probably haven't seen in however many years and have no reason to remember you. But he said, no, I do remember you, which I thought was a lie at the time. But if we get the time later, I'll circle back to why that probably was.

• 20:35Jack Murphy?

  Because you got in trouble and you had to go to his office?

• 20:38Speaker 03

  Oh, I was in trouble enough, but not for that, not that time. And I said, hey, I'm, I'm, you know, Marine sir, so you gave me a green beret one time and, you know, done this and that. And I heard you were involved in anti-poaching and I'd really like to get involved. What are the, what are the options? What are the opportunities, please? And he was like, yeah, I'd probably hook you up with that. You know, the sort of thing you'd be doing is managing a team of 50 Rangers privately employed and, you know, half dozen land cruises, covering a conservancy the size of however many thousand miles up in this district or this country. And yeah, yeah, send me a CV and I'll see what I can do. I'll be in touch.

• 21:23Speaker 03

  And I was like, wow, I can't believe it. I was just talking to, you know, Papa Green Beret here. And he actually was, you know, didn't just put down the phone on me or laugh in my face. So I sent off the CV and, you know,

• 21:38Speaker 03

  took a moment and my heart was fluttering a bit and he called me back 15 minutes later. And he said, I know you've never done anything like this, but would you be open to doing a job on the private security side? Now, when I'd left the military, I'd, I'd known about guys going to PSD details, Iraq, Afghanistan, the money to be made. I had heard the stories and they even sent, they even sent one of them back to lecture us on why not to do it. Obviously so that they could keep up their attention. But yeah, not that I put much faith in that. And I'd said to myself, I'm never going to do that. I'm never going to go private security. And it sounds dramatic, but I said, I'm never working with a gun

• 22:21Speaker 03

  in my hand again. So, yeah, I know I've sort of become a hypocrite and who, who doesn't? But wanting to work in anti-poaching would obviously be breaking that rule. But yeah,

• 22:35Speaker 03

  I'll have to, I'll have to sort of

• 22:39Speaker 03

  stretch my head and conscience around that somehow. So yeah, I, I didn't think I would ever get involved in private security, promised myself I wouldn't. And here was the opportunity. So Colonel said to me, can you, can you be on a plane tonight?

• 22:56Speaker 03

  And, you know, if you, if you go to Heathrow right now and present yourself at the, you know, the check-in desk for this airline, say your name, there will be a ticket for you. And, you know, obviously I've said, what's the job? And he said, well, I can't tell you until you get here.

• 23:10Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. Should I pack a coat or a Hawaiian shirt? What are we doing here?

• 23:13Speaker 03

  Yeah. He said, it, it is, it is going to be taking a package from one location to another, exchanging that package for another package and bringing it back out to another location. And if we, if you get here and you don't want the job, I'll give you 5,000 and a plane ticket back. That'll be the end of it. As in, you know, once I tell you the details of what you'd be really be doing and you're like, no, no timeout, I don't want this, you'll get 5,000 and a plane ticket back. Fine. If for whatever reason, we get to the launch point and it's canceled, that'll be 10,000. If we get to the exchange and

• 23:51Speaker 03

  it's unsuccessful, that'll be 15. And if the exchange is successful, you'll get 20. And it's going to be approximately, you know, three weeks work.

• 24:05Speaker 03

  And I was just blown away by this. He's got me on the phone on the spot, decision, go, no go.

• 24:14Speaker 03

  And I said, yeah, okay. And put the phone down and went and packed a bag.

• 24:21Jack Murphy?

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• 25:02Jack Murphy?

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• 25:41Jack Murphy?

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• 25:55Jack Murphy?

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• 26:38Jack Murphy?

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• 27:10Jack Murphy?

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• 27:52Jack Murphy?

  work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen, so you're paying for exceptional quality, not brand markup. And it's not just clothing. Quince has become a trusted favorite for everything from home to travel to everyday essentials. Make your summer wardrobe easier. Go to quince.com/ house for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns, now available in Canada, too. That's Q U I N C E dot com slash house for free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com/ house.

• 28:32Speaker 05

  Hey y'all, it's Lauren LaRosa and y'all know I always have the latest. So on my new audio series, Love Lately, I'm getting into the conversations we're really having about love, relationships, and our sexual health. Every week, it's me and Dr. Contessa Metcalf, my big sister with a medical degree, breaking down what the culture says versus what the doctor says and helping make sense of it all, get into it. Another thing me and my friends don't really talk about is like how you're having conversations with people about getting tested. I'll be honest, so many women don't feel comfortable talking about it and they don't feel comfortable advocating for themselves. But let's go ahead and just put you in a position to where you can kind of empower yourself and it, it

• 29:14Speaker 05

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• 29:39Speaker 01

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• 30:14Speaker 02

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• 30:37Speaker 03

  And like my inner 12 year old was sort of saying to me like, I knew this was gonna happen one day. I knew it. But at the same time, I was like, this is real. This isn't a movie, you know? Why, what do they want with you? What skills do you have? That no one else could fulfill because this guy has got to have a dozen former regiment, former pool or former um, Hereford guys he could call on. Why do they want you? What like, what do you bring to the table? Sure, you got one tour at a green rate, but that is not what, anyway. I had a lot of misgivings. I was concerned.

• 31:17Speaker 03

  I thought maybe I was gonna be roped in to be a patsy or a fool guy for something. Uh, I told my dad and you know, shared my misgivings with him and he was like, yeah, I know I've got the same misgivings, but if I was a young man like you, I'd probably go as well. So, but the main thing that decided it for me was I thought the Colonel would not betray one of his Marines. Cause one of the, one of the main things that, one of the main takeaways you would get if you met the man was his integrity. And that kind of shone through in everything he said and did. And I thought, there's no way he would knowingly or willingly betray one of his Marines. He's not setting me up to be the fool guy.

• 32:00Speaker 03

  This is genuine and I don't understand why or what for yet. So yeah, I got on the plane, I got on the train, got to Heathrow and a part of me had been saying, no, this is a bite. Someone's having on, someone's putting a leg here. Like a few minutes after you sent your CV, he called up, you know, Paul and asked, do you remember this guy? Do you remember this guy? Yeah, I know. It's Dave. Pull his leg, get him on a bike. So I was genuinely surprised when I got to the check-in desk and said my name and there was actually a ticket there. And yeah, I got on the plane. Obviously I didn't sleep on the flight. Um, I remember looking down. It was a night flight as it flew over Africa and seeing some of those little lights below.

• 32:44Speaker 03

  And thinking, you know, this is like deepest, darkest Africa, like, like, um, what's that book where the guy's going down the river to, to meet with, um?

• 32:54Jack Murphy?

  You mean Apocalypse Now?

• 32:57Speaker 03

  Sorry?

• 32:57Jack Murphy?

  Apocalypse Now?

• 32:59Speaker 03

  Apocalypse Now, but it was based on a book called Heart of Darkness.

• 33:02Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 33:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'd read Heart of Darkness and you know, darkest Africa and all this sort of mystery and, and fear that's associated with that. Now with the Marines, I had been on jungle training in West Africa. Um, when I was recce troop and so I'd spent, you know, six weeks there. But when you're sort of in folded in the bosom of the, the military, you're protected. You are, you know that if you're a casualty, they'll get you out. They'll get you back one way or another. You have all the logistical support, the command support, the communications, the QRF, you know, everything is there. Well, there's a huge apparatus there to protect you and help you achieve your mission.

• 33:45Speaker 03

  And now I was going private, something I'd never contemplated doing before. And I'd just done it at the drop of a hat. And you know, sold my principles as well for, for a considerable sum of money in 2008. That was quite a lot. That was enough to pay off my student loan and buy a motorcycle. And yeah, so.

• 34:04Speaker 03

  Well, anyway, this is what was going through my head and, and the Colonel said to me, when you get to the airport, there'll be a guy at the, at the, you know, when you come out the terminal, there'll be a guy with, um, two numbers on a piece of paper, four and two. Just go with him, right? I was like, oh, this is like some sort of spy stuff. It's like I've been dropped in the middle of Jason Bourne here and I'm just the comedy sidekick. Um, but that's kind of how I felt at the time. Um, so yeah, it was, it was kind of terrifying and the guy was there at the airport. I got in his car. I said, where are we going? He said, we're going to the Colonel's house. So that's where we went. Um, and being in, you know, a, a West African, sorry, an East African capital.

• 34:49Speaker 03

  It was, you know, the sights and smells. Have you, have you ever been to, to Africa?

• 34:54Jack Murphy?

  West Africa, not East.

• 34:57Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, you know, burning trash has the same smell wherever you go.

• 35:02Speaker 03

  And the, uh, the call to prayer, that's a, you know, a, uh, a distinctive part of it. It's, it's very different when you're in Asia, in the Middle East, to when you're in Africa. They have a different cadence, if you could call it that. Um, and yeah, it was, it was kind of overwhelming seeing giraffe right outside the airport as well on the drive. And got to the, the Colonel's, you know, compound, I should say, house and met him and yeah, he was just as imposing as I remembered, except he now had a, a beard. Um, and he put me up in his, his guest house on his, on his property. And he took, you know, took me to his office and he explained what the job was. It was

• 35:44Speaker 03

  taking ransom to Somalia and coming back out with not one, but two ships that had been held hostage by the pirates for the last couple of months. And, um, you know, he confirmed the terms. I think I had a, an NDA to sign. I think I had an insurance policy, policy to sign. A, which had a kidnapper ransom clause to it, which said that there would be 250,000, uh, in ransom if I was taken, you know, hostage. That would be, you know, a paid in order to get me out. Um, and yeah, it was shown to this guest house. It was a pretty nice place. Beautiful setting, um, which I became very familiar with in the later years.

• 36:29Speaker 03

  Uh, the, the, the area rather than the, the house itself. And, uh, yeah, at a certain point, he, he came out from the house with a couple of beers and we sat in his garden having beers, me and the former head of UKSF, which was, well, you know, meeting your heroes. It's, uh, it was, it was pretty heady stuff, you know? Just meeting him or speaking to him, but now being taken into his circle of trust and, you know, him telling me about the job and, and he, he did confess, you know, we are, we are a bit undergunned. Um, there are some risks involved, but you know, we've done this once before.

• 37:12Speaker 03

  And it went okay. And we're, we're hoping to do it again with the same formula and, uh, you know, and, and later that night, I, I actually was invited to dinner with his family. His, his kids were there. His wife was there. And, uh, you know, after that, the kids went to bed and the three of us, you know, the Colonel, his, his wife, we sat out on the, on the grass. Saw sunset. They, uh, they were drinking wine. I think I had a beer.

• 37:40Speaker 03

  And yeah, he really, um, you could say took me into his family and, uh, made me feel, uh, made me feel very privileged to sort of experience that hospitality and, uh, and yeah, we talked about a lot of stuff. Uh, tell you, at one point, and this is an insight into the, the man himself. At one point he went back to the house to get another bottle of wine. And his wife, who was a very, very beautiful, graceful, uh, lady. Um, it was just the two of us for five minutes and she said to me, I don't suppose you can tell us where, where you're going, can you? Cause I guess she knew something was coming, you know, she, she, she must've known that, uh, the Colonel was gonna be away for a few days.

• 38:22Speaker 03

  And, and then she said, I probably don't want to know, do I? And that one thing kind of illustrated to me how the Colonel, he, with him, his larger than life personality, his, his sort of insane level of confidence and self-assurance, which you might've come across some characters in the military who have this. It wasn't just an act with him. The man genuinely had ice in his veins because he hadn't even confided in his wife where he was going, what he was doing. Now for me, my wife, that's my best friend. That's my confident. I could not keep something like that from her. I would have to share that kind of thing.

• 39:06Speaker 03

  I mean, I don't have that level of crazy self-confidence that I could just keep it to myself. I would have to share it. He hadn't. I guess, I mean, you know, a guy who's done as many things as he has has probably found that formula by trial and error and that it's probably safest to, to protect them by not telling your loved ones what you're doing or what you're going into so they don't worry about it. But I just, I'm not made of the same stuff. I would have to share that fear, my fears and doubts with my best friend. I, I couldn't not do that. So yeah, to me, that's like, that was the most.

• 39:45Speaker 03

  The most amazing thing about it is he, he, it wasn't just an act that he, he dropped when he was with family. He was like that all the time. And yeah, it was kind of a, kind of a chilling thing for me a little bit, but uh, yeah, you know, he came back. Then the next day there was briefing, I met the rest of the team. It was very diverse, a mix of expats, Europeans and Africans. And the briefing was extensive and, you know, and in it, actions on. What do we do if we are approached? What do we do if we're contacted? We were sailing in two tugboats from a port in East Africa up the coast.

• 40:27Speaker 03

  Um, we had two ransoms, uh, we, we did, which we didn't have on us at the time. It would meet us somewhere in transit. Um. So yeah, then the team split, half of us went by ground, well, the bulk of us went by ground to that port. Embarked on tugboats, had all the stores on board, you know, we had to load quite a few stores. For, both for ourselves, for the voyage and for the crew. When we got there, we had to have food to supply them. Because they had been, you know, starvation rations for months.

• 41:01Jack Murphy?

  I was gonna, I was gonna ask Dave, I mean, when you say you go there, you're going there to collect these two ships. I mean, the crews are being held hostage as well, aren't they?

• 41:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, well. If, if we have time to go back and get into the sort of the economics of maritime ransom and K and R, we will, but it is a complex and labyrinth, labyrinthine, labyrinthine. It's, it's messed up. The people who write the cheque are not really writing it for the people, sorry, for the crews. They're writing it for the asset, the hardware, or its cargo. And yeah, that's, that's just the business of private security, I'm afraid. It's, it's.

• 41:49Jack Murphy?

  And, and the way.

• 41:49Speaker 03

  I don't wanna use the word, it's kind of mercenary.

• 41:51Jack Murphy?

  The, the, is the way it worked that the shipping company hired the Colonel's security company? To make this transaction?

• 42:01Speaker 03

  It was subcontracted.

• 42:02Jack Murphy?

  Okay.

• 42:04Speaker 03

  So.

• 42:07Speaker 03

  In the, as soon as a ship gets hijacked, everyone tries to put the blame or, or the responsibility on everyone else. You have the trifecta of the ship owner, who owns the hull, the ship management company. Uh-oh.

• 42:24Jack Murphy?

  I got you.

• 42:24Speaker 03

  I froze it. Okay. Uh, the ship owner owns the hull, there's a ship management company that runs the day to day and employs the crew legally, and the charterer. Charterer sends the ship to whichever port to pick up whichever cargo based on the relative value of that particular cargo, that particular time on the stock market or the international exchange. So they're kind of gambling with, is this gonna go up or down? Let's move this to there. And when the ship gets hijacked, all three of them are like, no, not my problem, it's yours. And the only person you can really guarantee to step forward is the ship owner, they wanna get their ship back. So the legal wrangling between all three of them lawyers

• 43:05Speaker 03

  is what takes up a lot of the time and effort before an agreement can be made. I'm still frozen, are you still seeing me?

• 43:12Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah, I got you just fine.

• 43:13Speaker 03

  Okay. And money actually ponied up, and then you gotta figure out the, the, the amount.

• 43:21Speaker 03

  But, you know, in that whole time, the, whoever the lawyers have agreed is actually gonna lead this, has got to appoint a K and R negotiator, and they might have an attached K and R policy already or they might not, probably not. And then that negotiator's got to make contact and start the process. And once again, going back to the, the film analogy, the, the movie with Russell Crowe and Meg Ryan, uh, Proof of Life.

• 43:47Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 43:48Speaker 03

  That's actually a cool movie. Uh, but actually, from, although I was on the, the delivery side, I wasn't one of the brains, I was just one of the folk, sorry, uh, one of the private security contractors who was part of the final security around the delivery. Um, but I gleaned little bits here and there over my course and, and my career in the industry that let me piece together a picture which actually, um, you know, says that the negotiation process that you saw in that movie is pretty much spot on. And I believe that movie was made with consultants from another company that I'm not gonna name, who are the main worldwide renowned experts in the field. And you probably already know who I'm talking about.

• 44:33Speaker 03

  I like to say, no names. And I believe they were also the appointee in this case, or the first one I did. And they then subcontracted the firm that the Colonel was, uh, one of the heads of, there were two heads, um, he was one. Uh, and that's where I got brought in.

• 44:56Speaker 03

  Now, to sort of clear up the mystery of why I was involved, it was because someone dropped out at the last minute.

• 45:04Speaker 03

  Yeah. Uh, are you still receiving?

• 45:06Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah, I got you.

• 45:07Speaker 03

  Just seeing my frozen, okay. Someone dropped out at the last minute, and then I happened to call the Colonel in the same, you know, few moments that they had had it in their spurs or whatever. Uh, and, and then actually, they, they quit because they were concerned about the lack of firepower, which I alluded to before in my discussion with the Colonel about it, and I will come back to later on. That's what I found out, but I wasn't told it at the time. Um. So anyway, um, back to the timeline, we diverted a bit. Uh, we were loading the, the tugboats in this port.

• 45:48Speaker 03

  And, uh, yeah, it was pretty atmospheric with the smells of rotting mangrove and the, you know, the, the dockyard smells, the rubbish. The, the sounds of the, the port city and, and, you know, all the, all the, all the, all that's wonderful about being in East Africa. And eventually set sail in the dark and, um, you know, the Colonel had joined us just before we set sail with a couple suitcases, one of which we stowed. And, uh, yeah, we were, we sailed in the sort of loose convoy, I suppose, these two tugboats, pretty dilapidated with a uh, a mixed crew of East Africa, which represented most of the countries in East Africa.

• 46:29Speaker 03

  From the, the crew's side and then the security team ourselves, we're about, oh, I know, eight, eight strong, I guess. Divided between the two boats, uh, about fifty fifty. And yeah, uh, it was rough. As soon as we got out to sea, I was seasick. One of the other European guys gave me a seasickness tablet that pretty much knocked me out. And fell asleep while this thing was bucketing around on the waves and woke up the next morning. And the, the seasickness had passed, but, you know, and it was a beautiful sort of sunrise out, out at sea off off the coast of East Africa and came up to the bridge to find the Colonel vomiting over the side.

• 47:11Speaker 03

  So I was a bit sort of, I was kind of reassured that, you know, I wasn't the, the green one showing myself up for being seasick, at least he was as well. But, uh, yeah, and, uh, and then the next sort of, this is, these are the events that happened almost twenty years ago. So it's kind of like a string with knots in it at various intervals and, and, uh, I might get the, the order wrong and I might get details wrong because a memory that old is more like a photocopy of a photocopy after so long, but there's certain things where you, you sort of mark them with a, a knot because it, it, it, you, you remember it because it it evidences an emotional response.

• 47:52Speaker 03

  And the next one I remember is when we unwrapped the, the weapons and got those out. And I'd been told in the briefing, uh, the Colonel said, are you a good shot, Dave? Yeah, yeah, I'm a pretty good shot. Okay, good. Uh, you'll be getting a Sig rifle. And I was like, oh, cool, Sig rifle, maybe like a Sig five fifty, that's awesome.

• 48:09Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 48:10Speaker 03

  All right, yeah. So, um, it was wrapped in a, a blanket, like a woolen military blanket tied at both ends of a string. I still remember that detail. Untied it, flung back the blanket, and there was this bolt action, single shot target rifle.

• 48:29Speaker 03

  And I hadn't been lied to so much. He had come straight out and said, yeah, I'm a bit concerned that we're undergunned. But, you know, I was I was fangirling so hard over the Colonel, over being, you know, taken into his trust and, you know, treated like family and asked to come on this cool, international, mysterious conspiracy piracy type. I I was I was fangirling so hard, I wasn't really listening to what I was being told. And besides that, I don't know what I'd have done if I had realized what it meant. Yeah, single shot bolt action seven six two target rifle, uh, a,

• 49:10Speaker 03

  it was called an SIG STR two hundred. And I think the STR stood for Scandinavian target rifle. No magazine, so you have to drop each round in the breach, push it forward and down. And the sights would die up to sights. And if you don't know what those are, it's a very narrow peep at the back. And at the front is a, a hooded post. And in in the middle is like a, a, a, London Underground symbol of a, a, a circle with two arms either side. And if you're doing biathlon, um, which funny enough, I I did do, uh, then that will be very familiar to you. And

• 49:51Speaker 03

  they're great for shooting at, um, round black targets twenty five to fifty yards away. They are not very good for your peripheral awareness because you're looking down this very narrow. Like, the the the single shot target part is bad enough, but the darker sights were the worst feature you could ask for on a combat rifle. So yeah, and the other blanket was a shotgun, a sporting twelve gauge, uh, auto loader. And, uh, the last weapon that we got out was a SIG, uh, sorry, no, a Glock pistol. It was one of those subcomp packs that fired, uh, three five seven. Uh, sorry, three fifty seven SIG, I think, is the caliber. I I've not come across it before since. I know it's a thing, but not a user or a here in Tali.

• 50:36Speaker 03

  Uh, are you still seeing this? Because I I'm just seeing a frozen screen.

• 50:39Jack Murphy?

  Yep.

• 50:40Speaker 03

  Okay, cool. So, yeah, seeing that, my heart absolutely sank like a stone. And we're already out to sea. I can't exactly go, whoa, whoa, timeout. Take me back to shore. I had to suck it up. And yeah, it's like, welcome to the wonderful world of startup PMCs. Because it was, you know, it's at that stage, still a startup PMC. It would go on to be one of the more respected, more established companies in the industry, um, later on, but at this stage, it was a startup. And it wasn't about, uh, you know, there was a few factors at play here as to why it was a rush job.

• 51:21Speaker 03

  And why they were going with what hardware they had available, legally available at short notice in East Africa, without drawing too much attention to yourself. And you cannot rely on the law enforcement there. If they got wind of a, an event like that taking place,

• 51:40Speaker 03

  you know, they might arrest you on a pretext. And then the ransom that was taken in as evidence would suddenly disappear. And they'd say, what ransom? And you, you know, it wouldn't matter to you because you'd be in jail for several months while lawyers wrangled over it. And yeah, it it had to be done with what was legally available, a short notice, without drawing too much attention.

• 51:59Jack Murphy?

  But in in this case, you guys got the money while you were out at sea?

• 52:04Speaker 03

  Um, it arrived, uh, before we left port.

• 52:09Jack Murphy?

  Okay.

• 52:11Speaker 03

  Um, and I have my suspicions as to exactly where it came from, but yeah, I'll I'll keep those to myself for now. And yeah, after that initial shock and the sort of realization and adjustment to it, you know, I started, started figuring this work problem, let's try and come up with, you know, a plan and a, you know, ru- run through through drills and what have you with the team. Uh, the Colonel took a step, a step back and let me just, you know, talk to the the rest of the team and and work with them. There was, there was guys who had operational experience. There's guys who had had special forces training,

• 52:49Speaker 03

  uh, from, you know, different units i- in East Africa. And there was guys with no operational experience who had just been working in anti-poaching or or stuff like that. And so I sort of said, right, this is how we're going to run the sentry. This is how we're going to wa- run the watch routine. This will be the SOPs. And the Colonel just sort of stood back, stepped back and let me run with kind of figuring out these procedures and and at one point we test fired the weapons. We had a, an empty oil can, plastic oil can over the side on a rope and we tried to hit it. And I was pleased to see that I was the only fellow who could hit the, uh, the the oil can with the rifle. We all tried with the pistol and the shotgun. Shotgun, we couldn't get working properly, would not auto load. You could single load it, but

• 53:35Speaker 03

  we took it apart, we cleaned everything, we tried to oil the action with whatever oil we scrounged off the engine room and the tugboat. Um, in the event when a contact happened, it did work. I think it was because of the type of ammo ammo we were using. We had several, several different random types. I knew nothing about shotguns at that stage from having never been issued one or used one. Anyway, we we kind of, like I say, uh, after the initial shock, I worked the problem. I started coming up with plans and trying to figure things out and come up with the best solution we could to the problem we had. And that's, that's my, that's my sort of, that's how I deal with anxiety is by planning and attention to detail and

• 54:17Speaker 03

  figuring stuff out and and being as prepared as I can. So that was how I approached that as the voyage went on day by day. The weather got better, it got worse. I got used to the seasickness. I got used to the food. It was pretty awful food, like, one of the, one of the European guys, I'll call him Steve, he jokes that it was goat cooked with dynamite and rice. Uh, and, um, what was that? There's a, there's a sort of maize meal that is a staple diet in East Africa. I forget the name of it. Um, but you can mash it up with gravy and meat and turn it into a semi palatable, uh, meal. Uh, I want to say cassava or, I, I, anyway, it's kind of white, like corn maize meal mush.

• 55:01Speaker 03

  Um, yeah, the the diet was an eye opener. The dis- the, the, the diarrhea was a bit unpleasant. The toilet was disgusting. Uh, riding, that's what Steve said, trying to use the toilet when in a storm was like trying to ride one of those mechanical bulls and stay on while you're being thrown around inside this little head on the, uh, on the boat. Doing laundry was a challenge, staying clean was a challenge. Uh, just sleeping was a challenge until you got used to it. And, you know, we'd started going on watches what we, once we get into Somali water, you know, keeping up a, a presence on the bridge all night.

• 55:42Speaker 03

  Uh, being armed, we had a, we had night vision device, like one of those, uh, monocles. But it was like a gen one thing. So it was like almost worse than useless. But in certain light conditions, it gave you a slight advantage. So we still used it. Um, there was a s- a radar wo- working on this, this old dilapidated tugboat. I found the, the boil, the sort of, um, the boilerplate, whatever you call it, the maker's plate that gave its particulars. And it was manufactured in nineteen eighty four in, I think, Glasgow or Clydesdale or someplace in Scotland. And it's manuf- it it's design speed was fourteen knots. It was so old and shot that it can only do a maximum of nine point eight.

• 56:27Speaker 03

  Um, and the other tugboat was a bit faster, so they're always pushing to get ahead. And we're always having to tell them to slow down. We had radio comms with them. The radar worked, but it was a bit iffy. It wasn't that great. You know, you try and track off the other tugboat to to make sure you could tune it to make sure you you were, had the right settings for the, um, the conditions. Sometimes, one time I remember we had a radar contact coming the other way. In the night, we all stood to, we all got ready. And it passed right between the two tugboats and went back, you know, back the way we came. And it didn't even see us. We saw no lights on board. We got to understand how our radar works, a system called AIS, which, uh, allows a blip to sort of

• 57:13Speaker 03

  come up on your radar screen with information about the the target. And on more advanced radars that I find later, it'll give you course speed, TCPA, uh, CPA, all that information about where it came from, where it was heading in its cargo. On this radar, it was just really basic. It might just give you a, a name of the vessel. Um, and a lot of vessels running in those waters, running with their AIS turned off, they're running dark, no lights. So, yeah, we had a few, you know, stand twos when we were concerned about vessels that we saw in the day or in the night. Obviously, it's a lot worse at night. I remember some of those long watches at night. You know, out to sea there, there's no light, it's completely dark. It's the darkest,

• 57:58Speaker 03

  blackest night you'll ever see, miles from shore. And the blanket of stars overhead was just amazing, the Milky Way in all its glory. And you could see the the tug's mast just by where it was obscuring the stars as it swung between them. And seeing the odd shooting star while you sat out there smoking a cigarette on a watch, coming inside, checking the radar, going for a walk around the back deck again. On the back deck of the tug, the the low deck, we'd strung ropes across it to try and be a trip hazard to anyone that came and boarded. And tried to, you know, make their way towards the superstructure in the dark. That was our biggest fear, being boarded in the dark by someone we didn't see or or or or hear them coming.

• 58:41Speaker 03

  But yeah, and as each day went on, you know, the tensions arose a little bit like a ratchet as we were getting closer and closer to the target area. And occasionally we we encountered a coalition warship. And I'd been sort of designated by the Colonel as the sort of communicator. I know, maybe I had a clear, precise RP voice or whatever you want to call it. Uh, but, um, sometimes when a coalition warship would hail us, they would, they didn't know what we were doing there. And they'd be like, hey, you know, you should get out of this area. It's really dangerous. You should make your way to, you know, safe waters as soon as possible. There's a threat in the area. And I'd be like, okay. Um, yeah, sorry. Thanks for the heads up. We we are, we are, we're low on fuel. We've got engine problems.

• 59:24Speaker 03

  That's why we're heading for the closest safe port. Thanks for the advice. We'll definitely heed that. But we are making best speed. Um, for for wherever I said, lied. And then sometimes another coalition warship would go straight past us and not say a thing. And it's like they were going like,

• 59:42Speaker 03

  so that was, that was kind of funny. And and then, yeah, and are you still with me?

• 59:48Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. So how many days did it take you to get to the destination?

• 59:53Speaker 03

  Well, the whole thing there and back was twenty one, so divide that by two, yeah.

• 59:59Jack Murphy?

  Ten days.

• 59:59Speaker 03

  I guess it was nine to ten days and then for the fucking around that we had to do once we were there. I'd say at least forty eight, maybe, yeah, forty eight, forty eight hours.

• 1:00:11Jack Murphy?

  So what, what, what happened once you arrived?

• 1:00:15Speaker 03

  Well, uh, when we got to the first one, the first ship was a. Like a pretty small one. It was like a ten or twenty thousand ton. Uh, product tanker. I believe it had a, a Western captain, but a, uh, an Asian crew. And the other tugboat stayed back over the horizon and we went in, made contact over the radio. I can't remember if it was the first or the second one, but I remember the, the voice of the negotiator coming over. And making the, the hairs on the back of my neck rise up, cause you could tell he'd been Western educated.

• 1:00:57Speaker 03

  He might be a Somali, but he had spent at least some time being educated or working in the West because of how. Good his, his English was and just made you think, you know, this guy has been, seen our society, been a part of it. And chosen.

• 1:01:15Speaker 03

  The path he's chosen, it shouldn't be surprising at all, but you know. There's a certain fear of the unknown and the cultures and the things you don't understand about Africa. And, you know, I'd never lived there at this point, so just hearing that kind of gave me, gave me the shudders, I suppose you could say. And, um, like I say, I can't remember if this is the first one or the second one, I'm probably confusing them, but. We got close enough, we got in visual range and then, you know, I. Like the day before, the Colonel had told myself and Steve to go and count the money and if you've never been in the room with.

• 1:01:56Speaker 03

  Two million dollars, it's, it's like being in the room with a beautiful living thing. You know that movie, um, Pulp Fiction where he opens the suitcase and there's that like yellow glow coming out of it? Um, and so I'd been told to count this and box it up, cause he didn't even wanna give him a suitcase, he wanted to give him a cardboard box. Um, so Steve and I took a brick each and counted the brick and it came to fifty thou. And then we couldn't be bothered to count each individual note, so we just counted the bricks after that and it came to the figure we'd been given. So it was, you know, it was complete, it was legit, no one had screwed us over along the way. I wasn't an expert in money at the time, uh, I sort of am now, uh, but yeah, it looked legit, um.

• 1:02:42Speaker 03

  So I packed it in this box, taped the hell out of it with gaffa tape, sorry, uh, duct tape and. Put a rope on it and lashed it so that it wasn't gonna come free and had that ready and waiting under guard. And, um, yeah, once we got close enough, the. A skiff came out from the, the, the hijack ship, the, what I'm gonna call the pirate ship. And, uh, the Colonel got in it and went back and man, I remember looking down and thinking he looked incredibly small as he went. Oh damn, I'm, I'm a bad narrator, I skip past some of the coolest stuff. You still with me?

• 1:03:21Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:03:22Speaker 03

  Okay, so I, I can't believe I skipped past that bit, uh, like.

• 1:03:35Speaker 03

  When we were coming in, after we'd made contact on radio and we were moving into the final RV. Um, the Colonel asked me to strap his ankle holster on with a sink pistol in it, with subcompact I'd mentioned earlier. I know, bad back or whatever, so he was sitting on a couch on the bridge. And I was, you know, kneeling down in front of him, uh, to strap the length ankle holster on and seat it in there and, you know. Make sure it was tight enough, you okay, is that good boss, is that right? Okay, good, fine. And. Uh, I started whistling a tune and, uh, it was, um, it was Bob Marley.

• 1:04:17Speaker 03

  I wanna know you and treat you right, uh, I wanna love you every day and every night. I was just whistling the, the tune and the Colonel heard it and he started singing the lyrics.

• 1:04:31Speaker 03

  And, and like we'd been, other people had been doing stuff in another corner of the bridge, you know, making ready this or checking that and then. Everyone just stopped and, and we just sort of vibing to this tune together and we started singing along together. We'll be together, uh, come on, help me out, how does it go here? Um, we'll share the same room of my single bed and. Yeah, we sang it through to the end and just like shared that weird little moment of sort of camaraderie or togetherness. Bonding over this, this cool Bob Marley tune and it just broke the tension and.

• 1:05:11Speaker 03

  I, I don't know what that says about us or, or guys who are going into a tense situation, but we just kind of like. Had that little moment of shared togetherness and it was, it was kind of cool. And yeah, I didn't wanna tell the story without relating that, that one, that one moment that, that was kind of good. But yeah, he was going across with a pistol in an ankle holster. And I remember, you know, talking to him about what he was doing and, and, and he happened to mention casually. You know, if, if things go wrong, you know, I'll, I'll have an AK pretty soon, so, you know. And he just mentioned it so casually, I couldn't believe that he was doing this, going into this situation.

• 1:05:55Speaker 03

  With these heavily armed guys and he was gonna be the only one going across. And now you sort of understand why, when I looked down and saw him on the boat going across, he, he looked awfully small to me, at least that's the feeling I remember. But yeah, he got across, he had a walkie talkie, talked back to me. He verified the hostages were there, the crew were safe, they were unharmed. You know, and, uh, and then he asked for Steve to come across, which I thought was a bit strange, but Steve came across. I guess, you know, it was one of his lieutenants, he wanted Steve to sort of get some experience. In and around them, cause he might have to be doing it the next time, um.

• 1:06:36Speaker 03

  And then he asked for the doctor to come across, we had a, we had a, a medic from a, from an, um. From an East African country who'd been in the military, um, and, uh. He went across next, so this, this little skiff was going back and forth, taking people across, he wanted the medic. To check out the crew to make sure they're okay, you know, to, to make sure they're all right. And so I, I started feeling uneasy at this point, cause there was only myself and one other. Guy who'd been in the East African, uh, special forces, there was only two shooters left on the tugboat. Uh, we only had two guns, so it was actually probably for the best, but.

• 1:07:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was, um, I was starting to feel that we were putting ourselves in a, you know, tactically vulnerable position, having so many of our guys. Over there, you know, under their control and potentially in harm's way, rather than back on the tugboat and. I had other tasks that I was busy with, I was communicating with the shipowners and. The, you know, people who were holding their hands through the final negotiation and then the signal came across right. Passed the ransom over and the tugboat came in, I told the captain, you bring us alongside and I went up with the box. And came underneath the, the vessel, underneath its railings and I was in the, the sort of, um.

• 1:07:59Speaker 03

  This, the, the, the area around the tug bridge, it's a bit higher than the deck. And I looked up and saw these two pirates looking down at me. Obviously all of our weapons were out of sight, weren't arrowing any kind of military clothing fatigues or whatever. Just a T-shirt, a pair of slacks and, uh, I had the rope, the box, threw the rope up, they caught the rope. And then they started putting on it and I lifted it up and that was the ransom on its way and then we pulled back. And then just hung out while they counted it all and it took them several hours to count it all. And part of the things that we'd sent across with each skiff, with each guy that went over was cigarettes and liquor, um.

• 1:08:40Speaker 03

  I'm not sure about the, the wisdom of sending liquor across, but while the pirates were all gathered. In the conference room on the ship, they were counting the money, they were sharing the liquor, so, so smoking the cigarettes. And divvying it up between all of them and I'll go into the economics of the trade and who got what and. How the, the ransom was split up, but they waited until dusk before they got off that ship. And at the time I was waiting and waiting and waiting and I had other jobs to do, the communication bit and what have you and, um. It was really fraying on the nerves, not knowing what they were waiting for. And then realizing that after dusk, they were waiting for dusk so that that would cover their, them going back to shore.

• 1:09:23Speaker 03

  Cause other gangs would be watching this from the shore and they would love to, um, you know. Meet them at the shore and ask if they'd like to share their spoils, I guess, so that was, that was the reason for waiting for dusk and that's what they always did, I learned that from the pattern. Wait for dusk, pirates get up after dusk and then the ship could get underway after they've been cleared. And so we got underway, you know, they went, they left.

• 1:09:49Speaker 03

  They had to restart the engines and I went through this process subsequently a couple times and so it's not easy restarting a a ship's engines after so many months dormant. Uh, and it takes time. The whole time you're worried, is there gonna be another gang coming out from the shore? Is there gonna be more skiffs? You're staring at radar screen like your life depends on it. You're looking out into the darkness, you're covering it with a nod. Eventually, they got ship's engines started, they got out to see the other tug boat came and joined us to escort us right out as we're heading out. And um, and at this point, my memory gets a little bit

• 1:10:28Speaker 03

  hazy, uh, the sequence of events. Am I mixing it up with the first and the second one?

• 1:10:33Jack Murphy?

  It's okay.

• 1:10:34Speaker 03

  At a certain point, you know, we said, all right, uh, we've got them so far out, that's what was in the contract. Wave goodbye and they're on their way. Everyone came back across to the tug and then we set about the next task the next day. And I think the the other tug had split off and got over to meet the the new gang while we were still escorting them further out. Because the next morning, when we came to rejoin them, by the time we did rejoin them, they, the ransom had already been exchanged, they'd already been through that whole rigmarole and that whole tense situation. When we caught up, one of the guys, incredibly brave younger guy, like my same same sort of age as me,

• 1:11:19Speaker 03

  but a, uh, uh, an expat living in in East Africa who'd grown up there, you know, well, actually, a and an East African, someone who was born in East Africa but was of European origin, put it that way, not an expat, um, incredibly bravely went across on on his on his own, without the Colonel, just did the did the did and, you know, sent the ransom across. And when we arrived, it was already on board. But when we got there, I'm gonna finish this note in a new one.

• 1:11:56Speaker 03

  When we got there,

• 1:11:59Speaker 03

  you could tell there was a different atmosphere. The previous group of pirates we'd dealt with while well being, you know, pretty well being pirates and horrible and mean and, uh, you know, having all the AKs and the PKMs and the RPGs and whatnot and looking like you'd expect. They hadn't been overly aggressive, but the atmosphere coming off this new gang was different. I think the first ship, the Irene, they'd had maybe a dozen pirates there. Part of them was a security detail that beefed up for the exchange and part of them was the guards that had been there to watch the ship and the crew while it was, you know, uh, being while the ransom was negotiated.

• 1:12:43Speaker 03

  The other ship, it was called the Stella Marie, and you can look look this up, I mean, uh, from my recollection, the date of the release was a bit off from what you can find online. But Stella Marie was sixty five thousand ton bulk ore carrier, big ship, beautiful, pretty, pretty new, had an all Filipino crew.

• 1:13:04Speaker 03

  And there were forty pirates on board. They had brought on reinforcements because they were especially afraid of us. Because a few months before, there'd been a French yacht and special for, you know, they'd gone in with nominally the ransom to exchange it and, you know, do what we were doing. But French commandos had actually been there and raided it and killed the pirates and got them out without paying the ransom. So that had raised the stakes and this particular gang didn't want that to happen to them. There were forty heavily armed pirates on board and they were really aggressive and they wanted to fight. Like you could just feel in the communication the different, a

• 1:13:47Speaker 03

  different vibe coming off them and see it, watching them that they were, you know, that they were, they were fingers on triggers, they were, they wanted an excuse to kill us almost. So after we caught up with the the second tugboat and the Colonel went across, I could hear his voice was different at time. And the doc went across as well and Steve went across again and I was, you know, having my misgivings once again about putting us at this tactical disadvantage with so many of our guys there. And Steve told me at one point, one of the negotiators said to the Colonel, you know, I have the ransom, I have the ship and I have you. What's your leverage here? Yeah, he, he was basically threatening.

• 1:14:32Speaker 03

  And when things got tense, the doc told me, and at one point, a pirate was detailed to mark the Colonel and stand behind him. And he was basically about to plug in. And what what you're about to hear, what happened, that he raised the raised the stakes even further. And the whole time I was doing the other parts of my job. And the communication bit back to, I think it was somewhere in Japan, where the hand holder had gone to go to the company offices and the ship owner to be there for the final stage of the negotiation. And I think that's when the the ship owners realized why this part of the operation was so expensive, when they they were getting the updates, I was sending them and hearing how things were unfolding and how tense it was. And at one

• 1:15:17Speaker 03

  stage, right in the middle of this, another gang of pirates came out from the shore in their skiffs. And they came out and I was on this tugboat with the guy that the the ex East African Special Forces guy were the only two left apart from the tugboat crew. And I knew if the the gang that was coming out on the skiffs, if they came alongside or if they tried to board us and we fired in self-defense, not at the pirates on the on the ship, but at the pirates from the other gang that were coming out to try and, you know, interdict ransom or, you know, try and snatch it if they thought it was still in play, they would instantly execute our guys on the ship. So I told the

• 1:16:02Speaker 03

  captain and the chief engineer, get the engine going, get this thing moving as fast as you can. Use the ship to shield us from the pirates coming out from the shore. So it was kind of like Tom and Jerry when they're trying to chase each other around the table and get get the ship as and get the tug moving as fast as possible to get it around the other side of the ship so that we wouldn't be in the in harm's way when these guys reached us.

• 1:16:27Speaker 03

  And that's when things were definitely at their tensest. And once those skiffs came out from shore, they actually started a gun battle between the pirates on the ship and the the other gang that had come out to try and see what was going on. They were shooting at each other with PKMs. Um, I don't know if they were hitting anything. And I I've got a theory and I don't know if, I've not, I've never heard this from anyone else, but

• 1:16:54Speaker 03

  it's, I like, I I'm not sure if I believe it, but the theory goes this, for Somalis, gunfire isn't necessarily an attempt on your life, it's a form of dialogue.

• 1:17:09Jack Murphy?

  East African proverb.

• 1:17:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, um, so you could take it as that, or you could take it, you know, uh, us in the Western world, you know, when someone shoots at you, you're like, okay, it's on, you mean to kill me and I'm, you know, emboldened to use the same measures against you. But for them, maybe it's not quite the same as that. Maybe it's just an escalation in the dialogue or a way of saying, hey, I see you, F off.

• 1:17:36Speaker 03

  I don't know. That's just a, that's just a thought that occurred to me. I've never sort of really expressed it out loud, maybe some anthropologist, cultural specialist, so whatever can can, um, comment in the comments about the, uh, the the validity of that that theory. Anyway, they were, they were having a go at each other with belt feds and I was very glad to be around the other side of the the bulk of the the the ship so that that shielded us from that little gun battle going on. And then after they pissed off back to shore, there was a gunshot came out from the ship and when I eventually got on the radio and raised one of my buddies there,

• 1:18:17Speaker 03

  it was the doc and he was like, yeah, one of the pirates just shot another one.

• 1:18:21Speaker 03

  So

• 1:18:22Jack Murphy?

  They're fighting over the money, yeah.

• 1:18:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, whether it was deliberate or not. And see, I'm just just telling the story almost twenty years later, I'm starting to feel that that that that tension and, you know, oh, God, I need to need to swig this beer now.

• 1:18:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, um, it's been a long time since I relived this, uh, and telling it's like going through it again almost. But yeah, one of the pirates shot another one while they were getting ready to disembark. Eventually, they did. They pissed off back to shore. And then we had to, we had to pump fuel onto the Stella Marie because they'd run out of fuel. Uh, I think they call it bunker fuel and and and we had to pump other, I think we had to pump fresh water on, they'd run out of that. We had to use the crane to load stores on. We tried to do it while we, after they got the engines moving, we tried to pump fuel while we were like attached to them and being towed by them. And it was

• 1:19:21Speaker 03

  too dangerous because the tug was kind of like meandering. Yeah, that was, that was a lot of crazy, stupid seafaring stuff that we did that you probably shouldn't. And I can't remember if that was the day after the night, but yeah, as soon as we got it going, we headed out to see, you know, ship tugboat either side, trying to provide some sort of, uh, you know, protection to it in case someone else came out. And then the next morning, Colonel was like, yeah, Harry, I want you to come on the ship. Oh, Harry, um, my, the Colonel said to each of us in this, in in the briefing, you've all got to have a nom, you've all got to have a pseudonym or a nom de guerre. And I chose

• 1:20:03Speaker 03

  the name Harry Maskers because that had been the, I don't know, have you ever heard of Harry Maskers?

• 1:20:08Jack Murphy?

  No.

• 1:20:09Speaker 03

  Harry Black. Uh, it is the British military term for black duct tape.

• 1:20:15Jack Murphy?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:20:15Speaker 03

  Masking tape. You know, the the there's a universal panacea without which military units would grind to a halt in twenty four hours because it's used to fix and make just about everything. Um, in the British military, Harry Baskers is the, yeah, the nickname for black duct tape. I think you call it like thousand mile an hour tape or something?

• 1:20:33Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah, a hundred mile an hour tape.

• 1:20:35Speaker 03

  Okay, yeah, a hundred mile an hour. So, yeah, e- everyone knew me as Harry. And so on on the radio, especially when we're talking to each other, we were using pseudonyms. And I was Harry and he was like, Harry, I want you to come aboard, I want you to see the the what what the ship's like and meet the crew and, you know.

• 1:20:55Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, I was still fangirling hard at this point, you have to understand. Uh, in spite of everything and yeah, because of everything that had happened. Uh, uh, so yeah, jumping across from the tugboat to the ship, that was really dicey. I had to talk to the captain of the tugboat and saying, you know, how do you do this? What, what, what's the procedure? And he was like, okay, we'll come alongside and then at a certain point, because we're still moving, we're heading out to sea, we're trying to get out away from the, you know, the coast as fast as possible. And the ship can only make a fraction of its design speed because of all the, the marine growth that's been encrusting it for months has caused an imbalance on the propeller. So it's shaking too hard if it tries to make maximum speed.

• 1:21:39Speaker 03

  So yeah, it's, it's reduced speed and, but we're still heading out as fast as we can in, in this formation. And the tugboat captain explained, as soon as we get close enough, the draft of the ship will suck us in. And when it does, we'll hit and you have to time your jump just right. Because if you jump after the, the hit, then the momentum will be lost and you'll just like hit the side and be smeared along the side. And if you jump too soon, then the opposite will happen and you'll be screwed. And if you go in the water, I will steer the tugboat nose in so the, the stern will go out. So you won't be chopped up by my propellers.

• 1:22:20Speaker 03

  Then all you have to worry about is to get away from the propellers of the ship as they come alongside and not get sucked under by the draft. So swim, you know, that way as fast as you can and hope for the best. So I was making this jump with the, the rifle on my back and a backpack with some ammunition and some other stuff and the camera. Oh yeah, I've been asked to bring a camera across to photograph the crew and the state of the ship and whatnot.

• 1:22:50Speaker 03

  And yeah, the sort of standing on top of that railing and waiting for that collision and timing my jump just right, there was a couple of crewmen, the Filipino crewmen had come down and was, you know, standing in the railing just opposite me. And as I jumped and sort of, I wish I had it in slow motion or something, but uh, yeah, as I jumped, they grabbed me and I banged my shins on the, on the railing and kind of made it over and they dragged me over the top of it, but that was terrifying as hell. I mean, with everything that happened before, I still remember that was one of the most tense moments, that, that, that jump. Um, yeah, but then I got to meet the crewmen. And that was another thing in itself. These guys have been held for months.

• 1:23:35Speaker 03

  I mean, I remember exactly the, the last ship I did, they were five months. This ship, I can't remember how many months they've been held. They told me, I'm sure. I, in my head, I want to say it was three months, but it, you know, memory plays you false after so many years, but meeting them, telling them my name, they're like, oh, Harry, Harry, Harry, like, like the Prince Harry, right? I was like, yeah, like Prince Harry, sure. Um, and they were so friendly and so enthusiastic and so delighted to meet us. And we, all, all of us on the security team, we, we went to the, the conference room and we had like a, a debrief while we were still heading out to sea about what worked, what didn't work.

• 1:24:18Speaker 03

  And what happened, so we all understood the, how things unfolded and, and, and the, the lessons that we could learn from this. And

• 1:24:30Speaker 03

  while that was happening, these Filipino crewmen, they cooked us dinner. They cooked us, no, it was lunch, midday.

• 1:24:39Speaker 03

  And they had hidden in the freezer while they were captives to try and, you know, feel that they had a secret and they weren't giving up everything. They had hidden some steaks inside this freezer. And they, the first meal they cooked, it wasn't for themselves, it was for us. And this steak, it wasn't anything special, you know, it'd been frozen for

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  Months, but it was steak and it was better than anything I'd eaten in a couple of weeks. And it felt so meaningful that the first meal that they cooked after they cleaned up themselves and the galley and got everything running again was for us. That was like such a powerful gesture and made me feel completely, what's the word I've been searching for? Um, inadequate. You know, I just, they thought we, we were something special and I'd just shown up for money.

• 1:27:39Speaker 03

  And yeah, I was being treated like this. Yeah, it meant something to them and, and to have someone say thank you and really mean it. That is something I've seldom experienced a couple of times like this, but it leaves its mark on you. And it was, it was, it was something special and something really powerful. And I felt it at the time and I still feel it now recounting it. That steak dinner with a couple of leaves of salad, I don't know where the salad came from or how they got it. But yeah, the steak I do remember and the, the warmth that they showed us and the thanks. And I remember at one point the Colonel got them all together on the, one of the, the decks at the side of the bridge.

• 1:28:25Speaker 03

  And for a group photo and was like, give us a, we are alive. And they just weren't feeling it. They were, they had, they were happy in their own way. They weren't going to be inspired by someone giving them a speech. But I remember taking that picture. I don't have it, I had to, you know, that was Colonel's camera, I gave that up. Uh, but yeah, it was, that was a picture. And that was, uh, it was something special to see them, even though they didn't quite respond to the attempts to sort of enliven them. They were going through, they were going through something in their own headspace that only they'd been through. And you could see that they were unwrapping, unwinding and processing it in their own way.

• 1:29:09Speaker 03

  And anyway, long and the short of it was, the Colonel said, I, I don't think the captain is able to command his ship. And I need one of us to go with him to the port that they're going to head for and dock at after we peel off and head back. And Dave, would you do it?

• 1:29:28Speaker 03

  And I was like, no, I want to stay with the team. I want to see this through to the end, you know? We've, we've been working together and for me to just be split off now is, kind of feels like, I mean, this is an unexpected honor and what have you, but

• 1:29:44Speaker 03

  I want to stick with the, the team that has been through all this together and see the job through as originally, uh, you know, as originally sold to me. And he said, all right, fine, I'll go. And he said, actually, it's a good thing you don't go because, uh, because I got two passports and you don't. Which, uh, is a very good thing because then it might've, uh, involved, it, it, it worked out well. It's a good thing that I didn't go, put it that way. Are you still with me? I still can't see anything. Okay. So yeah.

• 1:30:17Jack Murphy?

  So what was, what was sort of the next job? The next counter piracy job after that one?

• 1:30:23Speaker 03

  It's not over. This job isn't over yet.

• 1:30:27Speaker 03

  Um, so yeah, we split off, you know? The, the release ship went on, went on its way. I think it headed north, two tugboats and the rest of the team. We split off and headed back down south. And, you know, aside from the seasickness and the crap food and the, you know, rewatching the same stuff on the DVD over and over again and rereading the same crap books that I'd read the week before over and over again, it was pretty uneventful. Until that is, we were almost across the border or almost out of Somali waters. And then we got bumped by another gang. Um, and I remember being up on the bridge because I was still there, you know,

• 1:31:10Speaker 03

  Boy Scout, still being on watch when everyone else was starting to relax. I'm talking to the captain.

• 1:31:21Speaker 03

  And he was like, nah, we're almost safe now. I don't think there'll be any any more danger. I was like, okay.

• 1:31:29Speaker 03

  And they went back to the wheel and then turned around a moment later and his eyes were as wide as saucers. I'll never forget it. And he just says one word, ski.

• 1:31:40Speaker 03

  And yeah, grabbed the binoculars, look at the radar, lo and behold, on the horizon, there is a mothership. And it's just in the process of detaching a couple of skiffs. And they start coming in towards us. And so we stand to get on the radio, alert the other vessel. It's behind us, you know, a couple hundred yards behind. Everyone goes to their positions. Everyone gets ready. Steve's in command. He says, you go there. Shaw, you go there. And the drill had been, we let them come in and we show them we have weapons. We don't want to start a fight because we will not have to do business with these guys a couple of months down the line.

• 1:32:23Speaker 03

  And Somalis are are definitely remember a a vendetta and never pass up an opportunity to return the favor if they lose one of their own. Uh, so, um, yeah, we were very cognizant of that and to use force only after, you know, polite dissuasion had failed. But I was thinking, man, if they get on board or if they get. Our advantage is keeping them at arm's length. Our advantage is my rifle and my accuracy, which I can keep at arm's length. Their advantage is volume of fire. Once they're getting close, my advantage is nullified and their advantage is maximized.

• 1:33:05Speaker 03

  I told you, I go through things in my head. That's my way of, you know, working through anxiety or whatever. So, yeah, I was most concerned about them getting inside my envelope, getting inside my ability to keep away and

• 1:33:23Speaker 03

  and they came in and we never got time to go through the, you know, the the escalation levels of warnings and whatnot. Because the other tugboat opened fire. Uh, I guess a little bit less disciplined than us. And after they opened fire, the pirates opened fire. And, uh, you know, you've you've heard incoming incoming fire and when you start hearing the the

• 1:33:49Speaker 03

  you know, they're getting close and, uh, you know, that was that was something and Steve says to me, right, give me one warning shot, Dave. Give me a warning shot like thirty degrees off axis. So they know we're not going to take this line down. So I gave him one warning shot and, you know, the chain of command had been established. I had to respect it.

• 1:34:11Speaker 03

  I did. And then, uh, I was the the the dynamic in my head was I've got this K and R policy, quarter of a million to get me back.

• 1:34:22Speaker 03

  No, no, no, this this before we opened fire, that was what went through my head. Before they opened fire, that was what went through my head. And I was thinking, you know what? If if they take us prisoner, if we get taken hostage, you know, barring accidents, I will get to go home. I will live because I got this kid kidnapper ransom policy. So, but if we fight and are captured, we'll probably be dark, we'll probably be executed or if we're not killed in the in the in the capture itself. So I was thinking, what are we gonna do? You know, if I don't fight, if I put my hands up, I will almost certainly live. But I'll have a very unpleasant few months and a story to tell my grandchildren about. But if I do fight,

• 1:35:07Speaker 03

  there's a decent chance I'll die. A more than decent chance, considering the, you know, uh, the disparity in firepower. Uh, so that was the dynamic going through my head. And that's when the other boat opened fire. And it's like, okay, the the, um, the mechanics and the whys and the whats and the ifs and the wherefore's are taken out of it. Now the firefight started and that's when Steve said, right, give me a warning shot, thirty degrees, did it? And then I was like, oh, fuck this. Fuck these warning shots. I'm gonna shoot to kill. So chambered one, put it home, took aim, took the shot. And and within

• 1:35:48Speaker 03

  within a few moments, I don't remember how many, because time sort of dilates and stretches out and compresses in a firefight in those high stress situations. But it was almost like, I I remember pretty soon after that shot, they turned around and they stopped shooting. Or they were just firing hot shots over the over the stern as they were retreating.

• 1:36:08Speaker 03

  But I don't think I hit anyone that day. I'm, in fact, I'm almost certain I didn't. I just, I just didn't feel the vibe. And as, you know, if I get on to that part of the story, I know what that vibe feels like. So uh, I don't think that's what happened, but maybe I just got close enough to make them change their mind. Uh, and I think that's what probably happened. But, yeah, they turned around, they went back. I I went and looked at the superstructure of the tugboat afterwards. I couldn't see any hits. But when someone's been firing, you know, fully automatic in your direction, you've been hearing the the

• 1:36:46Speaker 03

  you've been seeing the splashes, you know, it was it was coming close enough to to make you sit up and pay attention and and when it's over, then, uh, you you feel a certain, uh, certain satisfaction at having sort of got through that and a certain uh, you know, certain, uh,

• 1:37:08Speaker 03

  I think Winston Churchill said it best when he said to be to be shot at without uh, incident is one of the most exhilarating experiences. And I can certainly second that. And I, uh, straight afterwards, we took a picture. Uh, myself and Shaw, and I'm gonna try and share that if I can. Oh, my screen's back. All right. Start share. Uh, only the host can share in this meeting. Oh, sorry. Can we can we fix that?

• 1:37:38Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:42Speaker 03

  Or I can send it to you after this and you can just splice it in.

• 1:37:45Jack Murphy?

  Okay, yeah, yeah, e- email it to us afterwards.

• 1:37:48Speaker 03

  I sent that picture at one point, I think, to try and hook your interest. But, yeah, I'm in flip flops, um, posing alongside Shaw with my bolt action rifle and his uh, sporting shotgun. And that was taken right after the, uh, the pirate attack and right off we, uh, we saw it off. And, you know, I I don't think anyone was hurt on either side, so best possible outcome, really. Just gonna.

• 1:38:13Jack Murphy?

  Um, so, yeah, let's, uh, let's move it along to the the next piracy job you had.

• 1:38:20Speaker 03

  Okay, well, there's there's a sort of a postscript. When we got back into port, um, you know, a few days later, because we were quite close at that stage. Uh, Steve had been scheduled to go to a wedding. And he said, do you want to come along? You know, I can't get you in the wedding, but, you know, the the the part, the the pre-party and what have you. We booked a hotel. My my family's coming down. We're gonna stay in it. And so I said, sure.

• 1:38:47Speaker 03

  Um, you know, cra- not exactly wedding crash, but crashed one of the parties and we, within hours of getting off the boat and leaving the port, I was at a beach party. This beach nightclub, you know, with this music pumping out. And when I tried to socialize and I tried to have a beer or two, but I was just exhausted, emotionally exhausted after this whole thing. And I just remember sitting down in the sand with Steve, with a couple, with a couple beers between us, a little bit away from

• 1:39:26Speaker 03

  from the action, just saying like,

• 1:39:29Speaker 03

  dude, did that just fucking happen? I still, yeah, and I still can't believe it, like, almost twenty years later. Did that really happen? The whole thing was like

• 1:39:43Speaker 03

  like a movie from start to finish. And sometimes I sometimes I ask myself, am I, did I hallucinate it? Am I like, like Walter Missy, like, you know, just imagining things that happened to me? But I've got the pictures. You know, I hope the audience is gonna see the pictures to to to, you know, get some some something concrete to say, yeah, it actually happened. But it's it's still wild looking back on it. And that that beach party, that that that time sitting down in the sand and just talking about it, reliving it and talking about it with Steve was, that was wild. So that was the the interesting postscript and the sort of

• 1:40:21Speaker 03

  the the the final epilogue to that that particular adventure. Uh, how are we doing for time, I feel?

• 1:40:28Jack Murphy?

  Oh, I mean, we're, uh, we probably can do like another half hour or so.

• 1:40:33Speaker 03

  Oh, boy. I used up, yeah, uh.

• 1:40:39Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, half hour, forty five minutes or something like that. Um, so.

• 1:40:43Speaker 03

  After that, I, um, I made some good contacts, you know, I there was a, there was a brief sort of after-party. I got given a bonus above and beyond what would what had been, you know, agreed. I was sent back with a, you know, pile of cash, paid off my student loan. I can't remember if I did another job straight after that. Yeah, I did. I did the cruise ship. And that was when when they were starting convoys through the through the Red Sea, through the Bab al-Mandeb. Uh, you know, escorted by, um, coalition warships. And on on that particular cruise ship job with another team, some of whom I had worked with before and some of whom I hadn't. Um, I witnessed another ship just ahead of us being hijacked.

• 1:41:28Speaker 03

  And listening to that was pretty wild over the radio. They were calling for help. They were screaming, they were pirates attacking, they're coming in for us. They're shooting, they're shooting. And then after a a moment's pause, you know, after they'd been calling out the the what had been happening, another voice came on the radio and said, there are no pirates here. And then the ship changed course towards the Somali coast. And it was like, oh, boy. And through a friend I made later on another transit, he knew that the guy who had been on that ship and he actually jumped overboard. It had been another, it had been a marine. A guy who's actually, you know, sold a couple of books off of the experience of failing to stop a pirate attack and jumping overboard.

• 1:42:12Speaker 03

  Uh like, I said I wouldn't say anything mean, but yeah, uh I I. Failed to secure any publishing rights or any agent for my story when I tried to write it. And I thought that was a little bit of a uh disparity in the. Brett uh sort of depth of your experience versus the ability to sell it.

• 1:42:35Speaker 03

  Anyway, um. So I I went on to do several transits. I think I got nineteen transits to the high-risk area on various. Cargo ships, bulk haul carriers, car carriers, container ships. Going up and down, left, right, across the uh across the Indian Ocean to uh Sri Lanka or up into Oman. Or up into Fujairah or up of into the um Gulf of uh or through the Straits of Muz to the uh UAE side. Uh a little bit topical now and uh. Once docked in Aden, but I never got off the boat. I wish I had. That was before the sort of whole boothy thing happened.

• 1:43:17Speaker 03

  Um and yeah, I interspersed a season of diving. With an expedition and then some more anti-piracy work, top up the bank accounts. I was just living the life up until. Up until I turned thirty. But anyway, um there was one other voyage which deserves a bit of um. A bit of exposure, cause it was the second time I was attacked and I was team leader this time. I went uh switched horses, went to work for another company. Um. Mm-hmm.

• 1:43:50Speaker 03

  A company which would later on go on to implode. And go bankrupt, but uh at the time I didn't know that um.

• 1:44:00Speaker 03

  And uh I went across as a team leader straight away without even an interview, purely on the basis of my association with the Colonel's company. Because of the reputation they had gained. Uh and uh yeah, my first job was the Vogue dignity uh and. I met a guy who was my two I C for many jobs together. Um. Really good friend and uh. A guy whose instincts I came to trust. Uh.

• 1:44:33Speaker 03

  Initially, when we went, when I went on board this ship. You know, the the three of us who went on, who had met the airport, uh you know, shared a few stories and. Talked about our experiences in this deployment, that deployment, what have you. And when we got there, there was this guy who was like, oh, my name's Eddie, I'm former SAS, I'm the team leader here. And I was like, well. Bosses said I'm the team leader, so you know, we'd better get them on the phone to try and figure this out. And I was like, what's your experience? Have you done anti-piracy stuff before? He's like, well, no. Yeah, well, I was SAS, so you know, you were just a just a Marine, so you know, you're gonna have to learn off me for a bit. Um I'll take my under my wing, school you a bit. And I was like. I know you've done this and that, and that's cool, but if you've never been on board ship, you don't have to work the radar systems.

• 1:45:18Speaker 03

  You don't know the lingo or how to communicate with the the officers or the helmsman. Or or or or work or fight the ship or talk the captain's language.

• 1:45:30Speaker 03

  You're not gonna be that much use as a team leader. So we we had a little bit of a, you know, a clash of personalities there. Until I eventually sort of got the uh one of the bosses on the phone, on the sat phone, and was like, come on, who's gonna be the boss here? And they said, okay, you are, Eddie's gonna be the two I C and uh. Eddie didn't like this, so he packed his bags and left the next day. And later later found out that he might not have been everything that he claimed to be. Uh and. That happens a lot in the private security industry. I'm afraid to say I've experienced it a lot since leaving.

• 1:46:09Speaker 03

  And yeah, that's it's it's a thing that you have to keep your eyes out for and I never expected that to be a thing, but it is. Anyway. That left me and Andy the two I C and one other guy that showed up.

• 1:46:26Speaker 03

  And that was our team. We we went from this port to that port. We got to know the crew, the great crew. Indian officers, Filipino um sailors, one of the best combinations you can hope for. Really friendly guys. They they all bring something to the table. All the cultures worked well together. It was a great experience. We got to know each other. We drilled, we trained, we ran through simulations. And at one point, there was a sort of whole side quest, I know at times at pre, but we had to get some extra ammunition, so we. Bought it under what might have been questionable legality uh circumstances. That was. Kind of like the uh, you you ever seen that movie Ronin where they go and do the deal under the bridge for the. Yeah, yeah.

• 1:47:08Speaker 03

  The money for the, oh god, it was it was tense and then. Then it turned out that one of the guys that met me at the meet was one of the guys I'd worked with before, but it wasn't until halfway through the exchange that I was like. Don't I know you? I know you from somewhere. It was like, I know who you are. You are so and so from there. It was like, oh yeah, brother, I remember you. We did this. But for a moment, it was like so tense, where I was thinking, oh my god, these are under complete, when I'm gonna get killed and I know me. But yeah.

• 1:47:39Speaker 03

  Came out okay and it turned out to be the same ammunition we had offloaded from those two tugboats. On the first job.

• 1:47:49Speaker 03

  Because I remember wrapping it with with Shaw, the other Ken, the other East African Special Forces guy. And we'd wrapped it with extra tape. We joked about how whoever unwrapped it after us was gonna have a hard time getting it open. It was the same boxes. It was the same guy who was cropped up elsewhere in the industry. And that ammunition get ended up getting used a second time. Anyway, so we carried on with the voyage with some more ammunition, some seven, six two and some twelve gauge. And then we got bumped. Uh so I used to have the coordinates in my head and I used to have the date in my head.

• 1:48:30Speaker 03

  I wanna say eleven degrees north, fifty-eight degrees east or one variation of that, you know. And it was Andy who's, well, first we picked it up on the radar and on a good radar, a good ship's radar, you have the X band and the S band. And they are either side of the bridge and they they're good for slightly different conditions, different things, I've forgotten now. But if that's a good setup, you can get a thing called a CPA. Which is the closest point of approach from any particular contact. It gives it a vector and it calculates stuff in there. Then you get a T CPA, time to closest point of approach. So we saw this contact. You know, the the latest of many contacts that we had tracked. And then Andy saw them on binoculars. He had great eyes.

• 1:49:14Speaker 03

  He'd been recce, he'd been a color sergeant in the cavalry. He he, I trusted him implicitly. And you know how sometimes professionally you can have two guys who just fit together and work together great? He was like, he was like my Spock. He was, he was a great guy and he, his eyes were better than anyone else's on the bridge and he seems like, yeah, that's a Dow. It's lowering a skiff. I couldn't see this detail. He could. It's peeling off and it's coming for us.

• 1:49:45Speaker 03

  And I was like, okay, this is, this is the strongest indication on any voyage since the last attack that I've had that we're gonna get attacked. And I must admit, I was. I was kind of like.

• 1:49:59Speaker 03

  Think what this'll do for my career. It's an uncharitable uh thing to feel. Going into what you know is gonna be a firefight, but I knew this was gonna boost my career with the the next company as well. And I knew that I could probably handle this. Um and one, looking at the radar and the T CPA, it was like twenty-five minutes. At the current speed, it was gonna be on us. So I said to the captain, all right, change course to this.

• 1:50:30Speaker 03

  I'm going to my cabin. And my cabin was just behind the bridge. I had the pilot's cabin. And you might think this a little tactically naive or maybe reckless, but. I I thought I'm I'm about to get in a firefight and I I really need a poo. Uh so I don't wanna shit myself in the firefight. So so um yeah, some, I don't know what it is, but my my bladder and my bow sometimes are like the best indicator that a firefight's about to happen, cause. Whenever it's kind of like gonna kick off or maybe there's no indicators yet that it's gonna kick off, I need to go. So that that happened. I went to the my cabin.

• 1:51:12Speaker 03

  Quickly, well, if you've been in the military, been in the Marines, you know how to use the bathroom real quick. So I did quick wipe, wipe, done.

• 1:51:20Speaker 03

  Then I was like, do you know what? If I'm gonna be a firefighter, I'm gonna die. I'm gonna die with a clean asshole, so I'm gonna have a shower.

• 1:51:29Speaker 03

  So on the shower, off clothes, in, water, rinse, rinse off, dry off, back clothes on, put on the lucky trousers and the lucky t-shirt. And back out. And.

• 1:51:42Speaker 03

  Okay, I probably did that in like two minutes, three minutes tops. Cause if you've been in the military, you know how to get ready and wash yourself and admin yourself fast, you you can do it a lot quicker than you realize.

• 1:51:56Speaker 03

  Came back out onto the bridge. Oh, the last thing I did before I left my cabin was put on sunglasses. Cause I didn't want anyone to see the fear in my eyes. Cause I was scared that if if my eyes were like big and scared and like sources like that, like the tug captains had been, then people wouldn't be listening to me. So, so, you know, I wanted to be like cool, calm and collected. This is my first time as a team leader or as, you know, leading the the bridge team fighting the ship. And I was, I was very aware, you know, I didn't wanna poop myself, didn't wanna show my fear, wanted to be calm and collected. So I gave myself a quick grin in the mirror,

• 1:52:36Speaker 03

  came back out onto the bridge. And when I stepped foot on that bridge, I could feel the panic rising. People were calling across each other. The captain was, you know, saying, what are we gonna do? What's the next course of action? Uh, members of my team were like, we need to do this or we need to do that. You know, you could hear the panic rising and different people shouting across each other and the the sort of conflagration and no clear plan, no one taking the lead. I was like, okay, maybe maybe the shit chow routine wasn't such a great idea. But I thought I've got to get, I've got a moment to get control of this situation. I've got a moment to start, uh, you know, reestablishing calm and reestablishing my authority and,

• 1:53:20Speaker 03

  you know, starting to lead this team and fight the ship. So what I did is I went over to the uh, the telephone that you can dial up any particular department of the ship. And I dialed down to the galley, to the mess man.

• 1:53:37Speaker 03

  And everyone saw me doing this and picking up the telephone. And I was like, hello, mess man, how you doing? Yeah, it's Dave up on the bridge. Yeah, I'm kinda thirsty. Would you mind sending me up a coke? Yeah, feel like a coke. Captain, would you like a coke as well? And by this stage, everyone had stopped what they're doing and saying, and they're paying attention to me.

• 1:54:02Speaker 03

  I'm wondering what the fuck I was doing. And I was like, okay, yeah, the captain wants a coke as well. Helmsman, first officer, do you want cokes? Yeah. Steve, you want a coke as well? All right, bring, why don't just bring up a whole slab of cokes for us, chilled if possible.

• 1:54:19Speaker 03

  And he was like, yeah, we don't have coke, we only have Fanta. I was like, okay, no, Fanta's good, bring up a slab of Fanta. Okay, all right, thanks a lot. Soon as you can. Cheers, bye. Put the phone down. Bridge had gone completely quiet. And everyone was just looking at me. And I felt that crackle, that thrill of, oh my god, I'm in the moment and I'm the man. And what I say and do is gonna, next is gonna determine the, how this unfolds. And I felt that, like, that thrill of, I'm Captain fucking Kirk. I can fucking do this. All right. So I started off by saying, I, I, I, once again, memory plays you false.

• 1:55:01Speaker 03

  And the the details of what I said next, I don't remember, but the the gist of it was, all right, what's our course and speed? All right, very good. Let's cool down to the engine room, make sure they've got max revolutions. I remember from that, that movie Hunt for the Red October, when when Ramius, you know, uh, played by uh, Sean Connery says, increase to flank. I don't know what that means. I have no idea, but I think I just said increased speed to flank. Cause he's trying to avoid the torpedoes and stuff. Yeah, anyway. Uh, whatever it was I said, they increased speed to max. Um, I'll, I'll, I, I'll, I'll send you the pictures because we, we had planned out the the response. We, we started off, I was like,

• 1:55:45Speaker 03

  right, start the fire hydrants, start all the hoses, start the pumps. I want all the fire hoses pumping over the side. I want to flood the deck. So that anyone gets on there, they'll be slipping around. We'd already put, um, razor wire around it. We'd already put dummies at key places on the stern of the ship. Dummies wearing, you know, helmets and with like dummy rifles, so it looked like there's people there. I was like, yeah, right, you, inform UKMTO that we have got a pos- possible probable pirate uh, inbound. You know, TCPA is this, so we're gonna get hit around this time. You, start unwrapping bandages, start prepping the aid station, uh, get everything ready there.

• 1:56:26Speaker 03

  You, I want, um, I want you, this was to the bosun, and I said, I want you to go down and pull the circuit breakers from every floor, make sure all the outside hatches are secured, all the windows secured, all the curtains are drawn. Cause if you pull the circuit breakers to every non-essential floor, if anyone gets in, it's gonna be dark, they can't turn on the lights, they're gonna be disorientated. We'd already hardened the ship, we'd already welded bars on windows and doors and locks that you could pull down so that every door would be secured, so I, I was like, right, activate the muster uh, alarm, all the non-essential crew muster in the muster point and then head over to the citadel. The citadel is a part of the ship that you'd hardened and put, you know, placing around so that as a last resort, you'd get in there, lock yourselves in,

• 1:57:11Speaker 03

  and then call UKMTO and basically ask for a helicopter with ninjas to come and, you know, rescue you. That wasn't necessary as it happened. So, yeah, all the non-essential crew mustered, including the captain's wife and his three and a half year old daughter, who were along for the voyage. Um, and then they went over to the uh, the citadel. So all the non-essentials were out of the way. We just had the bridge team, we just had the security team. And I'd gone through firing off those, I wish I could remember the sequence of it, but I was killing it, man. I was just saying, you do this, you do this, you do this. Has that been done? Has that been done? And I, I, I had that, that, that moment of feeling like, damn, I am killing it, man.

• 1:57:52Speaker 03

  I don't know how this is gonna turn out, but the, um, it, it sounds good. Um.

• 1:58:00Speaker 03

  And then they were coming in, they were inside three hundred yards. And, you know, I went out onto one of the s- the bridge rings. I gave my camera to the captain and said, take some pictures. I wish I'd said, take video. Some of those pictures you've seen, some I guess we can splice in. I don't have time to try and pull them up like we agreed, but. Um, yeah, and then it was, it was comical what happened next. So I detailed one guy, a really good South African soldier, I said, you go prone on that corner. And, you know, I'll be on the wing. Last man was a little bit unsure of himself with weapons. He'd been a police officer in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, an African country.

• 1:58:43Speaker 03

  I actually took his weapon off him because I was concerned, more concerned that he would be a danger to the team than the pirates. So I had the shotgun on my back while I was having the the seven six two self-loading rifle on, in my hands, and you'll see that in the picture. It was a bit better than the the bolt action from the first one. And I was like, right, first thing we'll do is fire flares, fire the flare high up. Uh, second flare I aimed a bit closer, and the skiff actually had to veer out the way to avoid the flare. Um, we were going as fast as we could, everything, all the hoses were activated, all the, all the procedures and the drills we put in place had been activated. Everyone was as ready as we could, so this was, you know, coming down to the final moments. And I was like, right, let's fire.

• 1:59:27Speaker 03

  You and me, Andy, let's fire like three shots in the air so that they know we've got multiple uh, self-loading weapons. To give them an, an idea of the firepower they're about to face. So we fired three shots each.

• 1:59:42Speaker 03

  But when I said, get ready to fire three shots, he didn't say, here to get ready for it, he just fired them. And I wasn't ready for it, so I was like, oh, damn, my ears. And it was like the, you're only supposed to blow the bloody doors off moment. You know, it was, it was kind of a comical moment of levity in the middle of the the tense situation that was, that was unfolding. I was like, right, you and me, Andy, let's fire three rounds in the water, off axis, so they know we're not aiming at them. So they know that this is not meant for them, this is a demonstration. So, yeah, six rounds went in the water, nice big plumes of spray come up. And that's when they opened fire. And I was like, okay, you, you know, you're firing directly on us now.

• 2:00:28Speaker 03

  Our warnings have gone unheeded, that's when we can, you know, flip the switch and go over to use of lethal force to defend ourselves as we're legally allowed to do. So, yeah, I, I just remember for the next, um, for the next few moments, just pumping rounds into that skiff as it was coming. And I remember as clear as day, the first one, setting up plume of water off to the, off to the side. And the second one, sending splinters off the, the gunnel of the skiff. And then after that, there's like a gray blob over the occupants of that, that skiff. And I have no recollection or memory of anything that was there or anything that was hit.

• 2:01:10Speaker 03

  And I've had that gray blob before, once when I was in a fight, when I was in college, when someone was strangling me. And when you're close to blacking out, you get these gray fingers coming in from the edges, obscuring your vision until it comes down to a, a sort of like a tunnel. And it was the exact same kind of gray that I remember, like, over the top of those guys in the skiff that we were shooting at. So truthfully, I really don't know if I hit anything that day. But the only explanation I can come up with is that my, my mind was somehow trying to erase or edit those memories to shield from me, shield me from whatever I saw or did. And the, one of the, one of the, I think it was the, the helmsman,

• 2:01:56Speaker 03

  who'd actually been through a previous Iranian missile crisis and been misfired in another ship. He was watching through the binoculars and he said he saw two of those guys go down. So the South African guy never heard the word of command. When I, when I, when I gave the word of command to fire, I said, I shouted, let them have it. I should have mentioned that before. But, yeah. And he never heard it, so he never opened fire. It was just me and Andy that loosed off, uh, you know, mag each into them. So it could have been him, could have been me, but I, you know, I wouldn't have, my mind wouldn't have edited that unless there was something that it was trying to protect me from. So that's a strange little idiosyncrasy. I don't know if any of the other veterans who've described contacts they've been in

• 2:02:41Speaker 03

  have ever expressed anything similar about that, that gray blob.

• 2:02:45Jack Murphy?

  Not, not quite like that, but I, I think what you're describing isn't necessarily uncommon, that there's like a certain level of stress and your mind kind of blanks some things out.

• 2:02:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was very, it was very weird how I just could not access those memories afterwards. And yeah, the skiff turned around, so there was evidently someone still alive at the helm. They went back to the mothership, we sailed on, we updated UK MTO, nearest warship with us, Citrep. And yeah, checked everyone, no casualties, no damage.

• 2:03:22Speaker 03

  Stayed on watch, stayed at, you know, everyone on stations for a good while and yeah, eventually.

• 2:03:30Speaker 03

  So calmed down and I remember afterwards. I went up to the, the top of the ship, to the what's known as the Monkey Island and held on to the. The rigging and stood on top of the railings and just like. Uh, it was. It was weird. It was like a release of emotion. I just started laughing into the wind. Um. Yeah, uh, never, never really had anything like that sin before or since. And I guess I was just like, super glad to, to have gotten through it. When you think about it, it's really not that hard of a contact to, to be in, cause you're up high, they're down low, they're on a skiff.

• 2:04:10Speaker 03

  You're on a stable firing platform, but, but for me, I was really satisfied with the fact that I had actually, you know, led a team in. In a contact and I knew I, I'd done my job and done it well and, uh, you know. Held everyone together through my, I guess you call it leadership, but it wasn't that challenging of a situation, but it was a. It was definitely a first for me and, uh.

• 2:04:33Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was, it was, it was something, it was something to be there.

• 2:04:37Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah, they needed somebody to man up.

• 2:04:41Jack Murphy?

  Uh, and after that, you went and, uh, were you doing some freelance work in West Africa?

• 2:04:47Speaker 03

  Well, it was all technically freelance. Um.

• 2:04:51Speaker 03

  So final, final chapter, I guess we're getting on to that now. Um.

• 2:04:58Speaker 03

  I, I went back to the UK. I tried to, as I put it, go straight for a few years. After I turned thirty, I started panicking, like, you know, I've had all this, this head and this sort of existence for the last few years. I've had a great time, some cool experiences, a lot of laughs, but I have no savings. I've got no career. I've got no plan. I've got no mortgage and I started panicking and thinking, you know. What woman is going to be interested in, in, in a long-term relationship with me unless I get like a, a real job, a stable job? So I, I tried to go straight. I tried to get away from the security industry. I tried a few different things. I, I tried adventure travel, um.

• 2:05:40Speaker 03

  Tourism, I tried starting my own app for six months. Uh. Didn't work out. It made some money, but it wasn't enough to get it over the, the line to make it, you know, super profitable. I tried being a recruitment consultant for six months, uh. And I spectacularly failed to hire a single person in that time, uh.

• 2:06:04Speaker 03

  And one of the things they said to me is, you lack the killer instinct, I'm afraid. You, you, you don't have what it takes in this industry.

• 2:06:13Speaker 03

  Oh, by the way, recruitment consultants, I said I wouldn't say anything mean about anyone, but watch out for them. They will get you in for interviews. And then they will ask you who you've been interviewing with.

• 2:06:27Speaker 03

  And you know, cause you don't want to seem like you're a nobody and you haven't been doing nothing. You don't seem like you're sitting on your hands. So I said, oh, I. I had this interview with this company and this interview with this company. And they'll be like, oh. So did you interview with, uh, so and so that I know from them? And you'll be like, no, no, the hiring manager was this guy. Five minutes after you're out the door, they'll be on the phone to them, looking him up on LinkedIn, saying, I hear you're hiring. I've got a few candidates you might want. Yeah, they will screw you and I just couldn't. I'm not saying I'm, I'm an especially moral or upright for, uh, or whatever person, but I, I, I wasn't cut out for that industry, didn't make it. Uh, didn't last six months and then, you know, I, I was applying for this, I was applying for that and.

• 2:07:10Speaker 03

  And I put the Colonel down as a reference and I said, can I use you as a reference? And I was like, yeah, sure. And I didn't get that job and I was like, damn, did he, did he screw me on that? Cause I really thought I was gonna get this thing. And I called him up and I said, did you, you know, did you give me the reference? Did you screw me? And he was like, no, I, I gave you one. I'm sorry you didn't get it. So you're looking for work, are you?

• 2:07:34Speaker 03

  Do you wanna move out to Africa and live here full-time and be on my, you know, management team, you know? You know that, that Rodin movie, they talk about labor or management, the Joel Renault character says, are you labor or management? I'd been labor up until that point and then I sort of moved on to the, the management side of the thing for. For, for a good while, you know, I was with that management team for six months and putting in bids and planning contracts and doing. Doing all the operational sort of fixing for executive protection tasks for VIPs visiting East Africa, going on safari. Oil contracts, security for drilling sites, security for crew changes for, um, seismic survey ships.

• 2:08:17Speaker 03

  All kinds of stuff and it was fascinating and it was high stakes and it was, well, I wouldn't say especially high. It was, it was high stress. That's what I wanted to say. And it was during that time, living in East Africa, that I met my, my, my wife, my, my only wife so far, uh, and, um. Uh, yeah, she was working for the United Nations, like from a girl from Philly. Uh, which I was, I was to find out is, uh, means that they have, you know, like all the bad language and all the attitude. Know how to talk to people that, uh, cross them in ways they don't like. And yeah, shout out to all the Philly girls and the Philly people. You, you're something else. Uh, and, uh, yeah, so, um.

• 2:09:01Speaker 03

  Uh, after the oil price fell through the floor a few months later, I had to go freelance again. I ended up working for, uh. I worked for a guy who started a legitimate mercenary firm, Kini Meaney Services. Have you ever heard of them?

• 2:09:18Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yep.

• 2:09:19Speaker 03

  He went on to found another company who were semi, you know, and no, they were legitimate by that stage, but. His origins was definitely, um, definitely on the other side of the, the fence. And I actually had lunch with him at a, at a nice sort of, um. Suburban cafe in, uh, in East Africa. Before a job that we went on in Somalia to do almost the opposite of what I'd done before, but. On the side of the good guys. Uh, it was, it was a weird situation. Uh, I ended up getting dysentery and mortgage issue for about a week and, but still paid reasonably well. Without the job actually happening. And then I, I did, uh, you know.

• 2:10:02Speaker 03

  Surveys in, uh, in France. I did real, one really nice job in Marseille that was just, you know, paperwork and presentations. Um. Oh, and I forgot to tell you, one of the, one of the last piracy jobs I did while I was still working for the Colonel. Uh, was the Faircam Bogey.

• 2:10:23Speaker 03

  And yeah, that was, that was my last ransom run. I never found out what the ransom was. Cause after the tense situation that happened with the Stella Marie and they almost went wrong handover. They switched to no more face-to-face handovers. It was dropped by parachute. So the ransom would be dropped by parachute with like a, a GPS thing that would basically steer it onto the coordinates and it would be picked up. So no more face-to-face and then the security team would come alongside and then we'd get on when the pirates got off. And they did a lot of these without me and then I joined for my last job. On the Faircam Bogey. And the, the wages gone down by that stage, so you didn't get the same bonuses that you got.

• 2:11:09Speaker 03

  Because as every security industry sort of happens, explodes, matures and then tails off.

• 2:11:15Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, and they, they started hiring a lot of third country nationals and, you know, when you were making a thousand dollars a day, suddenly you're making two fifty.

• 2:11:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, it was like that. But the, the company was still paying good money, still, you know, at the, at the.

• 2:11:33Speaker 03

  At the good end of the industry. And yeah, I did that last job. The ransom was dropped. I'll, I'll send you some of the photos. You can see. The condition of the ship after the pirates got off was diabolical. Oh man, meeting that crew that had been held for five months was. It was incredible.

• 2:11:55Speaker 03

  The captain, like they were hijacked almost inside a safe port after their security team had got off. To go ashore via tender. The pirates had been waiting. I don't know if they'd specifically clocked them and worked out the security team got off or if it was just luck. They were almost inside a port in Oman. I wanna say Salana, but I might be mixing that up. And they were hijacked and then sailed back to Somalia. The crew had gone into lockdown, that, but one of the ensigns had been in the. In the bow of the ship. And so they kid, they had him and they forced the, the rest of the crew.

• 2:12:37Speaker 03

  To open up the citadel because they had that one ensign to use as leverage. All the defenses they'd put up, the pirates had managed to overwhelm and get past. They'd endured torture.

• 2:12:51Speaker 03

  And privation, starvation, beating up, bullying. Pirates had tried to convince some of them to go on to other ships, to use them as motherships, to to go out on pirate missions to try and take other, to hijack other ships. It would, and anyway, this was all to come, uh, when I, when I met the crew. But yeah, the, the ransom handover went, okay, you know, we, we waited until the dusk. We came on alongside, we got on board, the, the sea state was incredible. It was so rough that going across by some nets or, or ladders would have been impossible.

• 2:13:32Speaker 03

  They actually had to use the ship's crane to, to send over a basket that we then got on and hung on to whilst we were swung across. So I can legitimately say that I swung on the end of a rope and landed on a pirate ship, just like an Aeroflot movie. But yeah, that's, that's stretching a point slightly, but I did it. Um, and then as soon as we got there, we just saw the state, the dilapidation, the trash everywhere, the cat leaves, because the, the pirates, they chew this leaf called cat. That is like a stimulant. I, I never tried it. I didn't know what to compare it to. I, I wouldn't know.

• 2:14:12Speaker 03

  Um, so yeah, those leaves were everywhere and the crew, they, all they had left was their overalls or a few rags clothes that they'd managed to maintain. They'd all been kept on the bridge. They'd all been sleeping on mattresses up there while the pirates slept in their cabin. And they'd had a terrible, terrible time. But yeah, we, we pumped across fuel, stores, supplies, food, whatever we loaded across, got the ship started. Oh, myself and, myself and my buddy from the East African Special Forces had to go through every compartment and clear the whole space. And that was like a, I, I'd never done BBSS.

• 2:14:51Jack Murphy?

  That takes like all day on one of those ships for two guys.

• 2:14:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'd never done the official BBSS training course. I was just figuring it out and yeah, taping, taping flashlights to the end of your rifle to have some, some means of checking the corners and everything. That was, that was pretty nightmarish. And by the time we were finished clearing everything and verifying no pirates were left on board, you know, they, they'd managed to clean it up a bit, get the engine started, start getting it out to sea. I hope I'm not missing anything and I'm not going to come back and say, oh, sorry, I forgot. But yeah.

• 2:15:28Speaker 03

  And we sailed north to Salala and then I shared watches with the, I think he was the third officer.

• 2:15:37Speaker 03

  And he just poured out everything.

• 2:15:40Speaker 05

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• 2:16:24Speaker 05

  It brings that peace of mind that y'all can just do what y'all do and have a good time. Yeah. I say get tested together and that's beautiful. Brings you closer together. Listen to Love Lately with Lauren LaRosa from iHeart's Ruby Studio on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Gilead Sciences.

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• 2:17:25Speaker 01

  911 Nashville returns.

• 2:17:28Speaker 02

  There's a homicide detective down here. Three bodies on the ground.

• 2:17:31Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 2:17:34Speaker 02

  I will send swarms upon you and upon your people.

• 2:17:37Speaker 03

  That's one of the plagues of the Bible.

• 2:17:38Speaker 02

  And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 2:17:41Speaker 01

  Brian Philippi joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 2:17:48Speaker 03

  There was, there was a time when, when myself and the Ken, the East African Special Forces guy had been clearing one of the corridors down in the, in Yen Yen Jing room, when we'd come across these blood stains on the wall.

• 2:18:05Speaker 03

  And the, the torchlight illuminated it and it was someone had written in blood, we are only 21.

• 2:18:14Speaker 03

  And I found out, one of the crewmen told me this was the captain. When the pirates had broken into the superstructure and got all the crew out of the citadel, they were hitting the captain around the head with rifle butts and he was bleeding from it and trying to explain to them, we're only 21, we're only 21, this is everyone, there's no one left. So he took the blood coming from his scalp and just wrote on the wall, we are only 21. And that's what I saw. I mean, a few hours later, the crew had cleaned it off, but I saw it.

• 2:18:44Jack Murphy?

  Wow.

• 2:18:45Speaker 03

  And that was like some sort of intro to a horror movie or something. You know, going down through the, the decks of the ship with flashlights and one other guy and finding this and not knowing what the backstory was. And it was, you know, obviously filled in later, but damn, that was, that was pretty real. Uh, so the captain still had the scars from when they tortured him by putting ropes, you know, like bale twine around his, his wrists and pulling them apart. The common tactic they would use would be to, to get the ship owners, the negotiators on the satellite phone and torture one of the crew in the background while they're trying

• 2:19:28Speaker 03

  to negotiate, to try and use that as, you know, listen to the screams of your man. This is what your delays are causing.

• 2:19:37Speaker 03

  And yeah, that was, that was pretty wild. And you know, you'll see the picture. I, I thought about, you know, covering the faces, but if you put it up, if you use it at your discretion, I, I know if you want to, you'll see the looks on those faces and the, the story they tell. And just in the corner, peeking out behind the bridge ring, bridge door, you can see me, you know, me in my, you know, twenties, I guess. Bit of mileage since then, bit of middle aged spread, but you know, it's, uh, I was there. And, uh, man, the, the story that that third officer told me of the, the five months, he'd been due to get married, he'd been engaged. And in India, you know, postponing a wedding is a big deal.

• 2:20:22Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:20:23Speaker 03

  Cause it's between the families, it's a match. It's, it's not like a, you know. So he was worried, he was thinking that, that their family might have called it off. And he told me about torture, he told me about the starvation, the captivity, the beatings and how the, the captors had, had said to some of them, look, are you Christian or are you Muslim? And they'd be like, no, no, we're, we're Hindi, we're Hindus. And then, so are you Christian or Muslim? There was no in between, you're either one or the other. And, and yeah, the, the privation and suffering they'd endured and the doubt and wondering if his family was going to be disowned, if he was going to get to marry this woman that

• 2:21:08Speaker 03

  he'd met, only met a couple of times, you know, had been eating up on him. And he said to me, you know, the day you came, 21 men were born again.

• 2:21:18Speaker 03

  Up until then, for five months, we were in a space of in between alive and death, not knowing what, what we would come out as.

• 2:21:28Speaker 03

  So yeah, that was, it was really, really intense listening to him unburdening his soul over that, that voyage north to Salala. And when we got into the port, dolphins came out to meet us.

• 2:21:38Jack Murphy?

  Pretty cool.

• 2:21:39Speaker 03

  And all sailors believe, you know, dolphins are a lucky sign and, and it was just beautiful to see those. And docking, that was like a, that was an emotional moment. There were minibuses there, take the crew off, you know? We made our way, the security team back to whatever, agents came along, took the weapons, bonded them and whatever, sent them back to whatever armory. But that was my last time as, you know, on a ship. That was my last trip.

• 2:22:06Jack Murphy?

  So.

• 2:22:06Speaker 03

  And I went back to London.

• 2:22:08Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, tell us about, you know, kind of where you are today, what you're doing now.

• 2:22:12Speaker 03

  Well, there's a, there's a, an epilogue to this that, and the story wouldn't be complete without. You know, I went back to London, I went through that whole period of trying to go straight because I thought that was my last job before I eventually went back to East Africa to work for the Colonel. And a few months into the, the thing, whatever endeavor I was trying to make work in adventure travel or luxury travel, I, I hear from, I hear from the third officer, I'm getting married, the married, the wedding is, is on.

• 2:22:41Jack Murphy?

  That's awesome.

• 2:22:41Speaker 03

  And I want you to come.

• 2:22:44Speaker 03

  And, and I was like, oh man, can I do this? Yeah, I can do this. And there'd been a, there'd been a girl, an American as it happens, that I'd met like 10 years ago on a dockside in Tangier that I'd had a, like a fling with in, in southern Spain and whatever. And I'd stayed in touch with her long distance and she'd gotten married and gotten divorced. And I was like, man, I wonder if she'd come to this wedding with me.

• 2:23:13Speaker 03

  So I asked her and she's like, yeah, I'll come.

• 2:23:17Speaker 03

  Crazy girl. So we went as guests of honor to this wedding in Delhi. And their family treated me like a god. I was, I was put up with them. I didn't stay in any hotels. I didn't eat in any restaurants. They put me up for like

• 2:23:35Speaker 03

  ten days. An Indian wedding has like so many levels and layers to it. There's like three different ceremonies spaced out by a week. And yeah, we were there for all of it. They bought me like, um, I forget what it's called, like a, like a, a tunic with these golden buttons. You'll see it in the picture. I, I, I don't wanna try and fuck around with the pictures right now, but if you splice it in, there, there, there's a wedding photo with a third officer in the middle. Myself on one side, the, the American girl who came along with me on the other. And, uh, yeah, man, that wedding, I danced until dawn and it was like a like an emotional sort of epilogue to the whole.

• 2:24:16Jack Murphy?

  It's a happy ending.

• 2:24:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24:19Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, big time.

• 2:24:20Speaker 03

  Yeah. And, and I, I have to say, if I hadn't had that positive experience through that journey I went on through private security, if I just finished Afghanistan and that was it.

• 2:24:35Speaker 03

  And I hadn't, uh, you know, Afghanistan was a, a kind of a unresolved, unfinished. No one really got the ending they wanted to out of it. But I, I kind of, I kind of got something back through this whole piracy experience and the the thank you that the, the crew said to me on that first ship, the Sela Marie, and the experience of meeting that third officer's family and the, the thanks I got from them and the seeing that marriage and being there for that and if it was like a, it was, it was a very much a heaving experience from the, the unpleasantness that, that Afghanistan was.

• 2:25:18Speaker 03

  And I feel like a lot of the, you know, my, my brother soldiers and comrades who went through that, they never got that, that ending.

• 2:25:29Jack Murphy?

  It's like a, it's like a sense of closure. Yeah.

• 2:25:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:25:32Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:33Speaker 03

  And I was saying to my, you know, I've, I've been thinking for the last couple of months, what am I gonna say in this, this interview, this thing we're doing? And I was having a walk with my wife and I said, I, I don't know what kind of person I'd be today if I didn't get that, that happy ending. It sounds so corny. I have difficulty saying it out loud, but.

• 2:25:52Jack Murphy?

  Well, as you point out, you don't always get one in this, uh, profession. So.

• 2:25:57Speaker 03

  She said to me, I don't know if you'd even be alive today.

• 2:26:00Jack Murphy?

  Right. Yeah.

• 2:26:02Speaker 03

  Well, I thought you had a little bit more faith in me than that, but fine, I'll take that, I guess.

• 2:26:08Speaker 03

  So, so, yeah, it was the epilogue, the wedding. It was a big deal. And yeah, uh, sorry, I, I, I didn't.

• 2:26:18Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah. Just to, just to start wrapping up, um, tell us, you know, about what you're up to nowadays.

• 2:26:24Speaker 03

  Oh, man. So, yeah, freelance Africa. Worked for an embassy. I kind of got to go straight after all. Um, did the embassy work for a year and then I was

• 2:26:38Speaker 03

  wife and I, we, we pulled stumps and we, we quit our jobs and moved back to the States and, um, I've been living here now for almost ten years. I'm a US citizen. Uh, I've had two sons born here. They now have triple nationality. Um, and, uh, yeah, uh, moving to the States has been a trip. You know, it's, it's been an adventure in itself. It deserves a whole chapter in itself.

• 2:27:11Speaker 03

  Uh, I love being here. I love the country. I love the people. And, uh, I've been working in corporate security ever since. It's not high octane, you know, it's not, it's not

• 2:27:24Speaker 03

  seat of the pants stuff, but it's been steady. It's been flexible. I get to do fun stuff every now and again. Every weekend and again, I do a bit of executive protection as part of the job. And, um, yeah, it's been cool. I, I, I, I've been luckier than I have any right to deserve or expect. And I'm truly grateful for the people who've given me the opportunities that I've had. I'm truly grateful for, you know, the people in this country, the friends, the neighbors that I've made and, uh, you know, being

• 2:27:59Speaker 03

  being felt, being, feeling like I'm a, I'm a part of it. And, uh, it's awesome.

• 2:28:04Jack Murphy?

  Is, um, is there a place where people can go to find you, Dave? Like, are you on LinkedIn or if people wanted to reach out and procure your services, so to speak?

• 2:28:14Speaker 03

  No, I'm, I'm, I, I, I'm corporate now and I have to get someone's permission to do anything outside of that. Um,

• 2:28:22Speaker 03

  but, uh, gosh, uh, I used to have a no, I mean, you can just find me on LinkedIn, I guess.

• 2:28:28Jack Murphy?

  Okay.

• 2:28:28Speaker 03

  If you, if you really want to. Um, yeah, these days, you know, I'm definitely in, in middle age, uh, late forties and, uh, I guess, you know, I still find time to try and blow my hair back occasionally, although having responsibility, you can't be quite as reckless as I used to be. So I found, I found a way to, you know, blow my hair back every now and again by doing shooting competitions. And, um, a couple of marathons. I've got one coming up in November. Um, and, uh, yeah, looking forward to that. Um, I, I tried, uh, I dabbled in night vision shooting competitions. And, uh, had a little bit of success. Um, I came,

• 2:29:13Speaker 03

  uh, last year I came second in the, the largest one in the US. Um, the year before that, I think I came second as well. Um, so, you know, I've, I've, I've found a little niche there and, um, enjoy doing the odd, uh, the daytime competitions or, or whatever comes my way. And, uh, yeah, just, just really glad to be here and sort of

• 2:29:37Speaker 03

  really grateful for the opportunity to come and share this story. Cause it's been, it's been a while, man.

• 2:29:42Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, no, thank you for, uh, thinking of us. And, uh, these are some like really unique experiences. It's an insight into, um, you know, for a couple of different reasons, partly because it's private security and another that it's out in the middle of the ocean. So people don't really have visibility on it. Um, so we really appreciate these sorts of like unique experiences and you sharing them with us.

• 2:30:04Speaker 03

  Well, I know I haven't been the best guest and I've chopped and changed and I've

• 2:30:08Jack Murphy?

  No, no, it's great.

• 2:30:08Speaker 03

  probably muddled the, the order, but hopefully you can edit into something, uh, something halfway legible and, uh, something that will, you know, be of interest and hopefully entertainment to your audience. And, uh, it's been fun, man. It's been a lot of fun. Just recounting it. How, how many minutes did we actually clock up in the end?

• 2:30:27Jack Murphy?

  Um, I don't know. Two twenty. Yeah.

• 2:30:31Speaker 03

  Oh, okay.

• 2:30:33Jack Murphy?

  Um, so, yeah, I'll do a quick, I'll do a quick outro here and, um, and we can get going. Um,

• 2:30:41Jack Murphy?

  so thank you, Dave, for joining us on the show today. We'll have some links down in the description if you want to find him on LinkedIn. And I hope all you guys enjoyed this, uh, sort of unique insight into private security on the high seas. And we will see you next week. So until then, take care.

• 2:30:58Speaker 03

  Thanks, man. And thanks to the audience for sticking it out this long. It's been emotional.

• 2:31:02Jack Murphy?

  Thank you, Dave.

• 2:31:05Speaker 02

  Hello, everyone. If you're hearing this, uh, you are not a member of the Patreon. You can get your hands on ad-free episodes that come out early. And you can ask us questions. Maybe we'll answer them. You can also watch the Team House podcast completely ad-free and early. And you can also watch it live as we interview our guests. Um, and it's the best way to support the channel. So if you can, if you're open to it, you can go to patreon.com slash the Team House. That link is in the description. Uh, we appreciate the supporters and we hope you would consider being one. So it's patreon.com slash the Team House. Thanks, guys.

• 2:31:50Speaker 05

  Hey y'all, it's Lauren LaRosa and y'all know I always have the latest. So on my new audio series, Love Lately, I'm getting into the conversations we're really having about love, relationships and our sexual health. Every week it's me and Dr. Contessa Metcalf, my big sister with a medical degree, breaking down what the culture says versus what the doctor says and helping make sense of it all. Get into it. You know, the thing me and my friends don't really talk about is like how you're having conversations with people about getting tested.

• 2:32:20Speaker 06

  I'll be honest, so many women don't feel comfortable talking about it and they don't feel comfortable advocating for themselves. But let's go ahead and just put you in a position to where you can kind of empower yourself and it, it isn't some, it's not a judgment thing. It brings that peace of mind that y'all can just do what y'all do and have a good time. Yeah. I say get tested together and that's beautiful. Brings you closer together.

• 2:32:44Speaker 05

  Listen to Love Lately with Lauren LaRosa from iHeart's Ruby Studio on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Gilead Sciences.

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  Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder warrants. 911 Nashville returns. It's a homicide detective doing here.

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  Brian Philippi joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 2:34:05Speaker 05

  Hey, y'all, it's Lauren LaRosa, and y'all know I always have the latest. So on my new audio series, Love Lately, I'm getting into the conversations we're really having about love, relationships, and our sexual health. Every week, it's me and Dr. Contessa Metcalf, my big sister with a medical degree, breaking down what the culture says versus what the doctor says and helping make sense of it all, get into it. Another thing me and my friends don't really talk about is like how you're having conversations with people about getting tested.

• 2:34:34Speaker 06

  I'll be honest, so many women don't feel comfortable talking about it, and they don't feel comfortable advocating for themselves. But let's go ahead and just put you in a position to where you can kind of empower yourself, and it isn't, it's not a judgment thing. It brings that peace of mind that y'all can just do what y'all do and have a good time. Yeah. I say get tested together, and that's beautiful. Brings you closer together.

• 2:34:59Speaker 05

  Listen to Love Lately with Lauren LaRosa from iHeart's Ruby Studio on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Gilead Sciences.

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• 2:35:44Speaker 00

  911, what's your emergency? Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets.

• 2:35:52Speaker 01

  911 Nashville returns.

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  It's a homicide detective down here. Three bodies on the ground.

• 2:35:57Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 2:36:00Speaker 02

  Oh, since swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 2:36:07Speaker 01

  Brian Philippi joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 2:36:20Speaker 05

  Hey, y'all, it's Lauren LaRosa, and y'all know I always have the latest. So on my new audio series, Love Lately, I'm getting into the conversations we're really having about love, relationships, and our sexual health. Every week, it's me and Dr. Contessa Metcalf, my big sister with a medical degree, breaking down what the culture says versus what the doctor says and helping make sense of it all, get into it. Another thing me and my friends don't really talk about is like how you're having conversations with people about getting tested.

• 2:36:49Speaker 06

  I'll be honest, so many women don't feel comfortable talking about it, and they don't feel comfortable advocating for themselves. But let's go ahead and just put you in a position to where you can kind of empower yourself, and it isn't, it's not a judgment thing. It brings that peace of mind that y'all can just do what y'all do and have a good time. Yeah. I say get tested together, and that's beautiful. Brings you closer together.

• 2:37:14Speaker 05

  Listen to Love Lately with Lauren LaRosa from iHeart's Ruby Studio on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Gilead Sciences.

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  911, what's your emergency?

• 2:38:02Speaker 00

  Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets.

• 2:38:06Speaker 01

  911 Nashville returns.

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  It's a homicide detective down here. Three bodies on the ground.

• 2:38:12Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 2:38:15Speaker 02

  Oh, since swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 2:38:22Speaker 01

  Brian Philippi joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 2:38:34Speaker 05

  Hey, y'all, it's Lauren LaRosa, and y'all know I always have the latest. So on my new audio series, Love Lately, I'm getting into the conversations we're really having about love, relationships, and our sexual health. Every week, it's me and Dr. Contessa Metcalf, my big sister with a medical degree, breaking down what the culture says versus what the doctor says and helping make sense of it all, get into it. Another thing me and my friends don't really talk about is like how you're having conversations with people about getting tested.

• 2:39:03Speaker 06

  I'll be honest, so many women don't feel comfortable talking about it, and they don't feel comfortable advocating for themselves. But let's go ahead and just put you in a position to where you can kind of empower yourself, and it isn't, it's not a judgment thing. It brings that peace of mind that y'all can just do what y'all do and have a good time. Yeah. I say get tested together, and that's beautiful. Brings you closer together.

• 2:39:28Speaker 05

  Listen to Love Lately with Lauren LaRosa from iHeart's Ruby Studio on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Gilead Sciences.

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• 2:40:12Speaker 00

  911, what's your emergency?

• 2:40:16Speaker 00

  Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets.

• 2:40:20Speaker 01

  911 Nashville returns.

• 2:40:23Speaker 02

  It's a homicide detective down here. Three bodies on the ground.

• 2:40:26Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 2:40:28Speaker 02

  Oh, since swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 2:40:35Speaker 01

  Brian Philippi joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 2:40:49Speaker 05

  Hey, y'all, it's Lauren LaRosa, and y'all know I always have the latest. So on my new audio series, Love Lately, I'm getting into the conversations we're really having about love, relationships, and our sexual health. Every week, it's me and Dr. Contessa Metcalf, my big sister with a medical degree, breaking down what the culture says versus what the doctor says and helping make sense of it all, get into it. Another thing me and my friends don't really talk about is like how you're having conversations with people about getting tested.

• 2:41:18Speaker 06

  I'll be honest, so many women don't feel comfortable talking about it, and they don't feel comfortable advocating for themselves. But let's go ahead and just put you in a position to where you can kind of empower yourself, and it isn't, it's not a judgment thing. It brings that peace of mind that y'all can just do what y'all do and have a good time. Yeah. I say get tested together, and that's beautiful. Brings you closer together.

• 2:41:43Speaker 05

  Listen to Love Lately with Lauren LaRosa from iHeart's Ruby Studio on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Gilead Sciences.

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• 2:42:27Speaker 00

  911, what's your emergency? Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets.

• 2:42:35Speaker 01

  911 Nashville returns.

• 2:42:38Speaker 02

  It's a homicide detective down here. Three bodies on the ground.

• 2:42:41Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 2:42:43Speaker 02

  Oh, since swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 2:42:50Speaker 01

  Brian Philippi joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 2:43:05Speaker 05

  Hey y'all, it's Lauren LaRosa and y'all know I always have the latest. So on my new audio series, Love Lately, I'm getting into the conversations we're really having about love, relationships, and our sexual health. Every week, it's me and Dr. Contessa Metcalf, my big sister with a medical degree, breaking down what the culture says versus what the doctor says and helping make sense of it all, get into it. You know, the thing me and my friends don't really talk about is like how you're having conversations with people about getting tested.

• 2:43:34Speaker 06

  I'll be honest, so many women don't feel comfortable talking about it and they don't feel comfortable advocating for themselves. But let's go ahead and just put you in a position to where you can kind of empower yourself and it isn't, it's not a judgment thing. It brings that peace of mind that y'all can just do what y'all do and have a good time. Yeah. I say get tested together and that's beautiful. Brings you closer together.

• 2:43:59Speaker 05

  Listen to Love Lately with Lauren LaRosa from iHeart's Ruby Studio on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Gilead Sciences.

• 2:44:12Speaker 00

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. 911, what's your emergency? Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder wantons.

• 2:44:51Speaker 02

  911 Nashville returns. What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Bryant Philippi joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 2:45:20Speaker 05

  Hey y'all, it's Lauren LaRosa and y'all know I always have the latest. So on my new audio series, Love Lately, I'm getting into the conversations we're really having about love, relationships, and our sexual health. Every week, it's me and Dr. Contessa Metcalf, my big sister with a medical degree, breaking down what the culture says versus what the doctor says and helping make sense of it all, get into it. You know, the thing me and my friends don't really talk about is like how you're having conversations with people about getting tested.

• 2:45:50Speaker 06

  I'll be honest, so many women don't feel comfortable talking about it and they don't feel comfortable advocating for themselves. But let's go ahead and just put you in a position to where you can kind of empower yourself and it isn't, it's not a judgment thing. It brings that peace of mind that y'all can just do what y'all do and have a good time. Yeah. I say get tested together and that's beautiful. Brings you closer together.

• 2:46:14Speaker 05

  Listen to Love Lately with Lauren LaRosa from iHeart's Ruby Studio on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Gilead Sciences.

• 2:46:28Speaker 01

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• 2:46:57Speaker 00

  911, what's your emergency? Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder wantons.

• 2:47:04Speaker 02

  911 Nashville returns. What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Bryant Philippi joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 2:47:33Speaker 05

  Hey y'all, it's Lauren LaRosa and y'all know I always have the latest. So on my new audio series, Love Lately, I'm getting into the conversations we're really having about love, relationships, and our sexual health. Every week, it's me and Dr. Contessa Metcalf, my big sister with a medical degree, breaking down what the culture says versus what the doctor says and helping make sense of it all, get into it. You know, the thing me and my friends don't really talk about is like how you're having conversations with people about getting tested.

• 2:48:02Speaker 06

  I'll be honest, so many women don't feel comfortable talking about it and they don't feel comfortable advocating for themselves. But let's go ahead and just put you in a position to where you can kind of empower yourself and it isn't, it's not a judgment thing. It brings that peace of mind that y'all can just do what y'all do and have a good time. Yeah. I say get tested together and that's beautiful. Brings you closer together.

• 2:48:27Speaker 05

  Listen to Love Lately with Lauren LaRosa from iHeart's Ruby Studio on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Gilead Sciences.

• 2:48:41Speaker 01

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 2:49:09Speaker 00

  911, what's your emergency? Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder wantons.

• 2:49:17Speaker 02

  911 Nashville returns. What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Bryant Philippi joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 2:49:45Speaker 05

  Hey y'all, it's Lauren LaRosa and y'all know I always have the latest. So on my new audio series, Love Lately, I'm getting into the conversations we're really having about love, relationships, and our sexual health. Every week, it's me and Dr. Contessa Metcalf, my big sister with a medical degree, breaking down what the culture says versus what the doctor says and helping make sense of it all, get into it. You know, the thing me and my friends don't really talk about is like how you're having conversations with people about getting tested.

• 2:50:14Speaker 06

  I'll be honest, so many women don't feel comfortable talking about it and they don't feel comfortable advocating for themselves. But let's go ahead and just put you in a position to where you can kind of empower yourself and it isn't, it's not a judgment thing. It brings that peace of mind that y'all can just do what y'all do and have a good time. Yeah. I say get tested together and that's beautiful. Brings you closer together.

• 2:50:38Speaker 05

  Listen to Love Lately with Lauren LaRosa from iHeart's Ruby Studio on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Gilead Sciences.

• 2:50:52Speaker 00

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. 911, what's your emergency? Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder wantons.

• 2:51:30Speaker 02

  911 Nashville returns. What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Bryant Philippi joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 2:51:53Speaker 05

  Hey y'all, it's Lauren LaRosa and y'all know I always have the latest. So on my new audio series, Love Lately, I'm getting into the conversations we're really having about love, relationships, and our sexual health. Every week, it's me and Dr. Contessa Metcalf, my big sister with a medical degree, breaking down what the culture says versus what the doctor says and helping make sense of it all, get into it. You know, the thing me and my friends don't really talk about is like how you're having conversations with people about getting tested.

• 2:52:22Speaker 06

  I'll be honest, so many women don't feel comfortable talking about it and they don't feel comfortable advocating for themselves. But let's go ahead and just put you in a position to where you can kind of empower yourself and it isn't, it's not a judgment thing. It brings that peace of mind that y'all can just do what y'all do and have a good time. Yeah. I say get tested together and that's beautiful. Brings you closer together.

• 2:52:47Speaker 05

  Listen to Love Lately with Lauren LaRosa from iHeart's Ruby Studio on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Gilead Sciences.

• 2:53:00Speaker 00

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 2:53:31Speaker 00

  911, what's your emergency? Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder wantons.

• 2:53:38Speaker 02

  911 Nashville returns. What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Bryant Philippi joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 2:54:00Speaker 01

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• 2:55:00Jack Murphy?

  This is Matt Rogers from Lost Culture East. That's with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

• 2:55:04Speaker 01

  This is Bowen Yang from Lost Culture East. That's with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

• 2:55:06Jack Murphy?

  Every friend group has that one person who puts their card down for brunch and sends the Venmo request.

• 2:55:12Speaker 01

  If that's you and your Venmo balance is popping.

• 2:55:15Jack Murphy?

  You need a Venmo debit MasterCard so that you can spend your balance instantly. No transferring anything, no waiting around. So as soon as you get paid back for brunch, you can pay for those concert tickets you've been eyeing or put it toward your next night out. Plus, there's no monthly fee or minimum balance. Learn more about the Venmo debit card at venmo.com/card. Venmo balance account required to get the card and use a balance effective November 1, 2026. The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank, N.A.

• 2:55:42Speaker 00

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.