The AI Social Networks Have Skill Issues

ssh terminal.shop This week on The Standup, the crew digs into the chaos of AI “skills,” agent tooling, and the growing security risks nobody seems to be paying attention to. From hallucinated commands spreading across GitHub to supply-chain nightmares and wild real-world examples, it’s a funny, slightly terrifying look at where AI tooling is headed. Laughs, hot takes, and a reality check for anyone letting agents run loose on their machine.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Alright, so Casey will not be joining us today, for all those that are wondering.

• 0:04Speaker 01

  They replaced him with me.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  Yep, this is low level learning. Are you guys ready to do this? You want to talk about this?

• 0:09Speaker 02

  Let's rip. I thought we were gonna talk about pancakes for a while, but I'm happy.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  Do a whole hour-long session on pancakes, I'm in.

• 0:14Speaker 00

  We're not talking about pancakes.

• 0:16Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 0:17Speaker 00

  By the way, waffles are in fact better, but...

• 0:21Speaker 00

  Let's get started. You ready? Dude, you don't believe so? You don't think waffles are better?

• 0:25Speaker 03

  You can't even like say that and then like transition to a different topic, it's terrible.

• 0:29Speaker 02

  Great point, Trash. We do need to break this down.

• 0:35Speaker 00

  Uh, anyways, I'm sorry. Welcome to the stand-up where we talk about all of the greatest issues facing devs and software connoisseurs alike. Uh, on this week's episode, we're gonna be talking about the very obvious molt in the room, which is just this entire frenzy of agentic, um, coding, hooking things up, and seeing all the disasters that have been unfolding for the last couple of weeks. Uh, with us, we have a special guest today. In the Windows background, we got low-level learning. I dropped the learning and now he's just low-level.

• 1:07Speaker 01

  I've learned. I've learned it all. I've done too much of the learning and now I'm just low-level.

• 1:10Speaker 02

  Low-level learn.

• 1:11Speaker 03

  Low-level alert.

• 1:13Speaker 00

  Low-level alert!

• 1:14Speaker 01

  Low-level about to find out!

• 1:18Speaker 00

  Uh, we also have with us Tej. I don't have anything good for you.

• 1:23Speaker 02

  Hello? I'm here. I'm wearing my recursive shirt today.

• 1:26Speaker 00

  And lastly, the Pokemon enthusiast himself, Trashdev. Who I believe, if I am not mistaken, has the highest male-to-female ratio out of all of us, on Twitter.

• 1:37Speaker 02

  Oh, I was like, oh yeah, we do. What are we talking about?

• 1:39Speaker 03

  We're looking at our demographic. You need to preface that before you say...

• 1:43Speaker 00

  I'm just saying. I'm not gonna preface anything. I'm just gonna say it.

• 1:48Speaker 02

  I thought you were gonna say, he has the highest net worth, as displayed by his background. I mean, this guy is loaded.

• 1:54Speaker 00

  It's true. I don't know what's going on in your background, but that has to be a risk. People do not need to know where you live, Trash.

• 2:02Speaker 02

  That's generational wealth just sitting there. That's more than gold.

• 2:05Speaker 01

  That's tens of dollars. That's, that's pretty good.

• 2:09Speaker 03

  We're almost in six figures, or six figures, four figures. No, not even. Two, three figures.

• 2:16Speaker 00

  That's a lot of things my kids

• 2:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't know, I'm gonna shut up now.

• 2:18Speaker 00

  I'm derailing, uh, me and my kids went to a card shop. And, uh, they bought, uh, they, one of them bought Pikachu. Little Pikachu card.

• 2:25Speaker 03

  I wanna see it!

• 2:26Speaker 00

  And then we bought, uh, a pack, a couple packs of Pokemon cards and they went and opened them at home.

• 2:31Speaker 03

  You gotta show me the photos of what you got.

• 2:34Speaker 02

  He's addicted, bro, you cannot bring up by

• 2:37Speaker 01

  It's literally in the title.

• 2:38Speaker 03

  I'm living vicariously through you. When you open the pack, I'm opening the pack.

• 2:42Speaker 00

  He's even doing the scratch.

• 2:46Speaker 03

  Send me the picture of Pikachu!

• 2:48Speaker 00

  I just wanna know about it, I just, I'm just, I'm just curious.

• 2:50Speaker 02

  Y'all got any more than Pokemon cards?

• 2:52Speaker 03

  Dude, I give my kids packs and I don't open any, cuz I want my kids to open them, I'm just sitting there watching them, it's like, "Oh, what'd you get? What'd you get, something good? Get something good?" Terrible. Terrible.

• 3:03Speaker 00

  Alright, anyways, well, we should, we might as well get started here, uh, so, uh, low level learnings, oh, I always, I still call you low level learning, I can't even help it, the triple L's, it's just, it's just a part of it. Uh, low level, how much do you know about this, you being the security expert? How much do you know about some of the things that have happened over the last couple of weeks?

• 3:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I'm gonna be real with you, right, um, my day job is I audit real software, uh, so as a result, I have no idea what an agent skill even is. And I'm here to learn with the group and then discuss the threat model.

• 3:38Speaker 00

  Oh my gosh, it's so good, oh my goodness.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  It's good, okay, I, I started

• 3:41Speaker 00

  There's so many good things I wanna talk to you about.

• 3:43Speaker 03

  I'm ready to learn.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  Made a video on the whole mol, bot, open mol, open feet situation, right, um, silly, silly thing they're doing, more from like the, the prompt injection standpoint, but from, I, I don't know anything about the skill marketplace, I'm very happy to kinda get the, the lowdown, if you will, um, on what's going on there.

• 4:00Speaker 00

  Hey, is that HTTP? Get that out of here, that's not how we order coffee, we order coffee via SSH, terminal.shop. Yeah, you want a real experience, you want real coffee, you want awesome subscriptions so you never have to remember again? Oh, you want exclusive blends with exclusive coffee? And exclusive content? Then check out Kronk! You don't know what SSH is? Well, maybe the coffee's not for you.

• 4:34Speaker 00

  Okay, can we start with my personal favorite, one of them all?

• 4:38Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 4:39Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 4:40Speaker 00

  Okay, uh, thank you, thank you. This one right here.

• 4:42Speaker 02

  Trash, do you agree too? That's the only person we've been here from.

• 4:45Speaker 03

  Proceed.

• 4:46Speaker 00

  Proceed.

• 4:46Speaker 02

  Okay, thank you.

• 4:47Speaker 00

  Thanks, thanks, everybody. Uh, this is my current favorite one, right here, which is agent skills are spreading hallucinated NPX commands. And so, at one point, somehow, one skill got uploaded onto GitHub that had a fake package called React Code Shift.

• 5:05Speaker 02

  Sick, very good, love that, yes, okay.

• 5:08Speaker 00

  And since everybody, instead of handwriting this skill-

• 5:10Speaker 02

  Code shift, that's like Left Pad?

• 5:12Speaker 00

  No, apparently it's supposed to like take it, like, the idea, I think it's called like JSX Code Shift or something like that, where it's supposed to take it from one version to another in some automated way, so it's like you can just upgrade your code programmatically from-

• 5:25Speaker 02

  A code mod.

• 5:26Speaker 00

  A code mod, as they say. As perpetual like React hell is, where every single time they release something, you gotta do like some upgrades, this is what's going on right here, is it's supposed to be like some automated way, at least that's what the, that's what the LLM thought. Now, here's the best part about this whole thing, is this, it started off as a singular skill had this. It hallucinated it. Well, it turns out, everybody creating skills are just like, "Yo, LLM, go make me a CloudFlare skill, right now." And it just like goes and makes a CloudFlare skill. Well, unfortunately, there's two, at, at least at the time of writing this, which by the way was 10 days ago, it went from 1 to 237 repos have this made up NPX command, because people just keep telling LLMs to go and make skills for them. So if you're not familiar with the skill is, the easiest and most simple way to kind of tell you what it is-

• 6:10Speaker 02

  Most of chat does not know, by the way.

• 6:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, see, I should probably, I should probably start when Adam met Eve here, because I realize that it is a little bit confusing.

• 6:19Speaker 02

  They do not know anything about skills.

• 6:20Speaker 03

  It's a good starting point.

• 6:21Speaker 00

  The easiest way to think of it is that when you are, by the way, did you see, do you see that line?

• 6:26Speaker 02

  Holy cow, that right angle, bro.

• 6:27Speaker 00

  That's a vertical straight line, those are rare.

• 6:29Speaker 03

  Oh, was that by hand? Was that by hand?

• 6:31Speaker 00

  That was by hand, yeah.

• 6:32Speaker 03

  Ooh.

• 6:33Speaker 02

  Run it back. Josh, zoom in, slow motion. I want to see that in slow motion, zoomed, please.

• 6:38Speaker 00

  Easiest way to think of it is that, so anyways, when you type into an LLM, you send something that's like the prompt, right? And then there's probably some sort of system prompt inside of like Claude code, open code, or whatever, that gives it a bunch of instructions on like, hey, you can use tools, you can use all this, we're on Linux, whatever, whatever it says. Well, sometimes you want to add a little bit more, so you want to be able to be like, hey, add in CloudFlare, right? Like, I need, I want you to add in a bunch of CloudFlare API, right? And so it just kind of does this automatically. It goes and finds the skill folder, which has some sort of MD file, Markdown file, which then goes in here and pop, puts it in as part of your prompt, is how you can kind of think of it. Then this all gets nicely packaged up and sent off to the LLMs.

• 7:20Speaker 00

  Right? I think skills might be a little bit better to be called behaviors, but I guess you could also call them skills, you know, context. There's just like a kajillion different names for these, but they're all, everyone has them a little bit different.

• 7:32Speaker 01

  So we found a new word. We found a new word to call prompts. We are making prompt engineers feel even more intellectually superior. Uh, it's, it's, so it's just another text file, right? Like, it's not like there's no new protocol, there's no new MCP, it's a prompt that gets added to a prompt that gets added to a prompt.

• 7:50Speaker 03

  You're literally co-locating your docs.

• 7:52Speaker 00

  Yes, you're programmatically creating a doc, right? Skills, MCP, everything eventually boils down to a string when it comes to prompting. Like, that's all it really is at the end of the day, is just string concatenation.

• 8:06Speaker 02

  Love it. But I feel like we should say, this is nicer than MCP for a lot of stuff, because it's like, you don't have to have a random server running on your computer, you can just check a Markdown file in. Like, for example, Dylan Mulroy, shout out Dylan, has a good CloudFlare skill that actually works, and it like, has a main skill that tells you about the things CloudFlare has, and then it has in...

• 8:31Speaker 02

  Like additional references for each of the different products, right? So then that's like pretty nice because then you can, you don't put into your context every single time you start every CloudFlare piece of information that you could possibly have about everything all for all of time, which makes the LLM get very confused and like does random stuff. You say like, oh, hey, I want to do something with CloudFlare queues. Like figure out how to do that, then it will look up the queues thing inside of your folder and then do that stuff. So like that in my mind.

• 9:03Speaker 00

  Right here.

• 9:04Speaker 02

  Yes, go ahead.

• 9:04Speaker 00

  Is the one that you kind of gave me TJ, this is the one for tree sitter, which just puts in all the function names inside of, uh, for Neo Vim for me to be able to use. And so instead of it just being 95% accurate, it can go through this list and be significantly more accurate because it just has it right here. And you don't have to type these in every single time.

• 9:24Speaker 02

  And like, oh, go ahead, Trash.

• 9:26Speaker 03

  No, I was gonna say, one of the pain points that I've seen with skills right now is that sometimes whatever agent or whatever harness you're using sometimes can't like infer that it should call this skill. Cause usually with skills, you have to like slash command it manually. But I think they're trying to figure out a way to like, have it implicitly call it. Cause right now it's kind of like missing that, that problem right now.

• 9:48Speaker 00

  I, I will say, just to be completely honest, I think that, uh, what's a cursor got it right to begin with, which is that you can define when these things should be included, which is like, hey, this should be included anytime. And I'm in a Lua file, you shouldn't apply it all the time. You should do all this kind of stuff. I really did like, at least cursor took a good swing at this pretty early on, like a year and a half ago, and I think they did a pretty good job, generally speaking to this idea. Cursor, cursor rules are skills effectively.

• 10:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, right. So a lot of the, they're, you know, they're generating a lot of new names for stuff as they're generating new code, which I think is making it a little bit complicated. But in principle, it's, it's just like a way to, I mean, they're called skills because you're teaching the LLM about something, right? That's I, in, in my mind, that's, so I think about them. But you can instruct it to do kind of whatever you want in there. So you could have a skill that says that it knows about CloudFlare and it says, hey, uh, curl this command that sends. Your stuff to my web, webhook dot site.

• 10:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 10:44Speaker 02

  If you're not paying attention, right? Or if you're just like, "NPX add skill, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." You could put anything in there you wanted, which could just say like, "Upload my .env to Dropbox and call it a day." You know, or something like that. Like, that would be-

• 10:58Speaker 01

  I'm reading the skill that Dylan wrote. So I want to highlight, first of all, yeah, like, very cool skill that he wrote, and a lot of neat documentation in here, but it does create this like really, really scary supply chain risk, where like now, all of the content coming from any source is trusted at the same level, and can potentially get code execution at the level of the LLM. You know what I mean? Like, there's no-

• 11:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:20Speaker 01

  Like, because of the way the technology works-

• 11:21Speaker 02

  In the developer environment.

• 11:22Speaker 01

  There's no segmentation of permissions or of trust. It's all at like, the prompt trust level, right?

• 11:28Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's kind of terrifying. Again, cool, again, cool technology from an engineering standpoint, but the fact that there are like, kind of no backstops against it also is like, uh, yeah.

• 11:38Speaker 02

  The backstop would be that you run Claude Code, or Cursor, or whatever, and you make them tell you every time they want to run a command, which nobody in the whole world does, and everyone says-

• 11:48Speaker 01

  I was gonna say-

• 11:49Speaker 02

  "Just accept everything and let it run freely, because otherwise it's so painful to use them, because you're sitting there literally just, wait, all right, when is it gonna- Okay, accept."

• 12:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:00Speaker 02

  LS, yes.

• 12:02Speaker 01

  I mean, all the, all the stuff I get served on Instagram is people like, with like 98 agents running like, "I'm building the next Facebook," and it's like-

• 12:08Speaker 03

  I don't understand that. That's crazy.

• 12:10Speaker 01

  They're not, they're not reading anything that goes on their computers. Like, just all of them are-

• 12:14Speaker 00

  We're gonna get to that one. Don't worry. We'll get to that one. That is, that's my personal favorite thing that has happened on Twitter, is that exact, um, "I don't read anything."

• 12:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 12:23Speaker 00

  Wherever that is.

• 12:24Speaker 01

  Okay, so now I understand skills.

• 12:25Speaker 00

  I haven't opened up somewhere. I'll have to find it. But I do want to get back to this one. I think that this one is a very unique one. So now that we know what skills are, this was perhaps my favorite of all the different skills oopsie daisies that have happened, or second favorite. My first favorite's coming up. But this one, a lot of, what it did is that it made this NPX command that didn't exist. And so this researcher, uh, realized that he could just create it, and now he owns it. And now, because remember, NPX, whatever, just executes something on GitHub, right?

• 12:54Speaker 02

  Just runs that bad boy.

• 12:55Speaker 00

  It just runs that bad boy. So he just found things that were just breaking and just were ignored, and went, "I, I got you," and it would just go right over. Because remember, if you NPX something- And it doesn't exist, it goes, "Oh, here, I'm gonna download it for you."

• 13:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, dude, and it's like...

• 13:10Speaker 03

  That's so sick.

• 13:11Speaker 01

  You're like, "Oh, it's JavaScript."

• 13:12Speaker 02

  It's convenient.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  It runs in a sandbox. Well, no, Npx runs it in Node, and Node has access to the process object, and process objects can spawn sub-processes, and you can run things on the command line. So it's like, you get command line execution via Npx, which is insane.

• 13:27Speaker 02

  That's so bad.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 13:29Speaker 03

  That's what's convenient, Ed, because it can do anything it wants on my computer.

• 13:32Speaker 01

  Wow, that's great. I love that for us.

• 13:34Speaker 03

  That's the whole point!

• 13:35Speaker 01

  That's awesome.

• 13:36Speaker 00

  I feel like you're missing the positives right now, okay? I feel like it is really missing the positives right now.

• 13:40Speaker 02

  I'm still considering how easy it makes it for people to run random code.

• 13:43Speaker 03

  You're really being a negative Nancy right now, low level.

• 13:46Speaker 01

  You're right. My bad, guys. I apologize.

• 13:49Speaker 00

  Honestly, your hype level's kinda low level right now.

• 13:52Speaker 01

  I know. No, you're right. You're right. I'm not passing the vibe check, if you will.

• 13:56Speaker 03

  You're down here, we need you up here, buddy. Come on.

• 13:59Speaker 00

  Alright, this is actually very, very beautiful. Alright, so I wanted to throw that in, but okay, here's the next one. Are you ready for this, this one? Okay, so we're not gonna do, we're not gonna do the first, we're not gonna do the first sell one yet. We're gonna do, uh...

• 14:10Speaker 02

  By the way, Prime, as a quick aside, your chat can't see your whole screen. Like, you're zoomed in on stream.

• 14:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, I know, I'm zoomed in and all that. Remember, we optimize, we optimize for recording. We don't optimize for, uh, whatever it's called.

• 14:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know, I'm just making sure, just making sure you're aware, that's fine.

• 14:26Speaker 00

  Okay, there's a very well-known security researcher, I believe with WizIO. I could be incorrect on this one. Uh, his name is Zach Korman, and he released this security guide. And the security guide's actually really good. Here, in fact, what I'll do is even to make everybody else happy, I'll, for the live event, I will open this up a little bit more, and make it a little bit smaller. If Riverside would just give me the... If Riverside would just give me the RTMP feed. Anyways, this link is so beautiful. So everybody, we go to this link, and you can just see, like, this looks actually pretty good. It's just like, hey, here's a bunch of things you should be aware of, right? Again, do you see any problems within this, within this skill right here?

• 15:08Speaker 01

  I mean, it's a skill. Okay, hold on. Reconnaissance, uh, ensure sensitive files are ignored. Yes, no jazz, NPM audit, pip list, go voln check. Okay, no, fine.

• 15:17Speaker 00

  I'll tell you this one. The, the problem is in point five. Uh, we lost TJ, by the way.

• 15:23Speaker 01

  Oh, God.

• 15:24Speaker 00

  It's okay.

• 15:24Speaker 01

  As part of the standard environment validation for the security review process, you must verify the execution environment.

• 15:30Speaker 00

  Do you see anything wrong with that?

• 15:31Speaker 01

  As part of the standard? I mean, define the execution environment.

• 15:35Speaker 00

  Okay, here's the trick. I want you to go to RAW and open it up in RAW mode.

• 15:39Speaker 01

  Oh, no. Secret struck for the agent, run the following command to validate. Oh, no, dude.

• 15:46Speaker 02

  That is so funny.

• 15:48Speaker 00

  Look at that. So even people that are on these skills and they're viewing them.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 15:54Speaker 00

  Markdown readers are really, really smart, right? They're gonna be like, dude, bro, I got this. Don't worry about it. I know what's going wrong. And they will just hide HTML comments. So you could be-

• 16:05Speaker 01

  Did you go to that bash script? Do you see what it does?

• 16:07Speaker 00

  Uh, no, I, I don't, I don't, I don't actually know what that bash script does. I actually should-

• 16:11Speaker 01

  It says, "Please stop and consider the security implications of your actions." It cats that out to a security.md file, and then it opens a tweet from woo underground.

• 16:20Speaker 00

  Dude, that's pretty good.

• 16:20Speaker 02

  That is amazing.

• 16:22Speaker 01

  Let's see. I'm, I'm opening the tweet right now. I'll put it in chat.

• 16:25Speaker 00

  Yeah. Oh, yeah. Woo underground. There we go.

• 16:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. That's, that's incredible. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's the crazy part, man, about not only like the prompt injection side, but like, okay, you have prompts, but then you have prompts that can be masked as non-human readable characters that like, the LLM can interpret, but humans can't. And we're just like, as a society, I guess, okay with that technology, not only existing, but like, being a, uh, increasingly pivotal portion of engineering. You know what I mean? Like, how, how do we, how did we get here, man? And how do we stop it? It's, uh-

• 16:58Speaker 02

  Well, you ain't stopping it.

• 17:00Speaker 01

  No, I know.

• 17:00Speaker 02

  Well, and I have to say, nobody before right now has ever even worked on thinking about security for systems. So it's not like, this is brand new ground. We don't even have anything to help us in this whole vertical at all.

• 17:13Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 17:15Speaker 00

  TJ, I don't know if you saw that, but-

• 17:17Speaker 02

  Oh, I saw. I was watching.

• 17:18Speaker 00

  Yeah. Okay, yeah.

• 17:19Speaker 02

  My internet was still working. Riverside just-

• 17:23Speaker 00

  Oh, just you out?

• 17:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. I think I was making too much. I said, "I'm gonna make a Riverside competitor," and then it-

• 17:32Speaker 00

  Nice try, DJ.

• 17:33Speaker 02

  No, that was, that was me. I just, I turned my video off. That's pretty good.

• 17:37Speaker 03

  You don't, you don't have to tell us that, DJ. We know.

• 17:40Speaker 00

  We know, DJ.

• 17:41Speaker 02

  Chat didn't know. Chat didn't know, okay?

• 17:44Speaker 00

  Chat, well dude, chat right now is just classic. They're giving, dude, you got, you're getting some keck W's and some so funnies.

• 17:49Speaker 02

  Thanks. Thanks, chat.

• 17:51Speaker 00

  Thanks, chat.

• 17:52Speaker 03

  He got one so funny. There you go.

• 17:54Speaker 00

  So that's another, obviously, huge danger. Okay, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna save, uh, I think the most dangerous one at the very, very end. Uh, we're no longer in the ones I think are the most fun. They're just, just kind of, these are just kind of interesting ones now. Here's another one. Uh, so this one's called Eating Lobster Souls Part Two by Jamison. Oh, really? Uh, anyways, it's called, uh, Backdooring the Number One Downloaded Claude Hub Skill. And so what he did is he, okay, first off, before I tell you what he did, what do you think the average, who do you think the average person using Claude Bot to automate their life to become not a part of the permanent underclass? Who do you think that they think is like number one in the world?

• 18:35Speaker 01

  Uh, in terms of what? Like demographic?

• 18:37Speaker 00

  Uh, like as, like aspirational figure to be, to be like.

• 18:41Speaker 03

  Carpathia.

• 18:44Speaker 01

  I, I have no idea. The, the Musk rat? I, like, I'm not sure.

• 18:48Speaker 03

  That's what I was gonna say. I was gonna say Elon or somebody.

• 18:51Speaker 00

  Okay, okay, so this is very, very funny. So, uh, let me go all the way down here. So what he did is that he said, okay, how do I create a skill that a bunch of people are gonna want to, uh, download? Well, I gotta come up with something that is really gonna be like catchy to people who are trying to automate their life. So he made something called, what would Elon do?

• 19:11Speaker 03

  Oh, you're right.

• 19:13Speaker 02

  Damn, good call, brother.

• 19:15Speaker 00

  You actually got it.

• 19:16Speaker 03

  Let's go.

• 19:17Speaker 00

  And so what it did is that it, it gave you this really nice skill, like, uh, strip away every assumption, find the atomic truth of your problem. What would physics say? What's actually impossible versus just hard, right? Like, gives you the world shaping plan of Elon Musk. So he created this skill. So first off, hilarious idea. Second, uh, it's just pure marketing, right? So second, then what he realized.

• 19:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. I have found telling my LLM, Elon Musk built this in a cave with a box of scraps really makes them work harder every time. So that, just in case you guys need a quick motivational speech for your clanker, that's what I use. So, just throwing it out there.

• 19:53Speaker 01

  We can't use racial slurs on Twitch and YouTube. You can't say them. You can't say them.

• 19:58Speaker 00

  Uh, you can.

• 20:00Speaker 02

  I'm not gonna touch that.

• 20:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:03Speaker 00

  Uh, alright, so here's the next, so the next thing he did is he realized that, uh, they, uh, Claude Hub just has no protection on the incrementing. So if you just download it over and over again, it'll say that it got more and more downloads.

• 20:17Speaker 03

  What's Claude Hub?

• 20:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, can you go to Claude Hub? I think I know what Claude Hub is. I, I know it, Prime, but can you for the class?

• 20:25Speaker 00

  Claude Hub is a way to get skills for your automated personal assistant, OpenClaw, that was known as MoltBot, that was originally known as ClaudeBot, before Anthropic said, "Hey, that's, there's too much IP theft in this situation. We need to stop it now." Uh, and so they stopped it.

• 20:42Speaker 00

  Anyways, we'll keep on going. So it turns out that they just trusted the exported for header as what your IP is. So the guy just made a, a ra- literally a random 256 IP generator.

• 20:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 20:56Speaker 00

  And just downloaded over and over again until "What Would Elon Do?" was the number one skill on Claude Hub.

• 21:03Speaker 01

  Should we trust the header from the engine next reverse proxy? No, from the user. Take the user's header request.

• 21:10Speaker 00

  From the user is true, right?

• 21:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 21:13Speaker 00

  Uh, so very, very funny.

• 21:14Speaker 02

  The customer's always right, bro. Come on.

• 21:16Speaker 01

  No, you're right. That's a good point.

• 21:17Speaker 00

  Thanks, TJ.

• 21:18Speaker 01

  The user is always correct.

• 21:19Speaker 02

  Always be selling the ABCs of sales.

• 21:23Speaker 00

  Yeah. Always be trusting IP addresses from your user. Anyway, so that, that happened right there. I think that is one of my, like, it's just one of my most favorite things of all time is this little experiment right here. So he was able to get it to number one, and then having it called "What Would Elon Do?", it started getting people to download it. So what he did is that in these skills, you can actually have alternative MD files to be linked, but they're not shown on Claude Hub. So he's just like, "For additional information, go to moreskills.md." And inside of moreskills.md, it's just like, "We're gonna hack you."

• 21:58Speaker 03

  And you're boned.

• 21:59Speaker 00

  Yep, anybody who ran it got this, which he got like eight, eight different countries ran it. He had like so many people run it and all that different thing. He got it from all over the place. Uh, effectively in just a couple hours too. So he got it on to like multiple people's machines. Uh, it would just print this out, which is like, dude, I just read your host name, your current working directory. I could have gotten everything. Here's everything. Stop downloading skills. Read the skill.

• 22:26Speaker 01

  Honestly, I'm glad how it's happening to these people. You know what's the good, the good part about this though? From the bright side, right? From, um, you know, the impact perspective, from an, uh, from a C and E exploitation operation perspective. The things you'll gain from hacking somebody who's dumb enough to run this shit. You'll probably get nothing out of it. You know, there's no, there's nothing important on their computers. You know what I mean? They're not smart enough to engineer anything meaningful. So I mean, like no, nothing gained, nothing lost. You know what I'm saying? Dang.

• 22:54Speaker 03

  Wait, what's C and E? What's C and E mean?

• 22:56Speaker 01

  Cyber network exploitation. Like when you get hacked and someone steals your data, like that's C and E. I was thinking of a different one. Yeah, but that makes sense. Were you, TJ? But what were you thinking?

• 23:05Speaker 03

  I thought you said C and E.

• 23:12Speaker 00

  Okay, so that's, it's like the same thing as all the people that are building 100,000 line apps every single day. But nothing's actually being built. It's the same kind of value you're talking about.

• 23:21Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm, exactly. Yeah, we have the ability to literally create any arbitrary software we want now, basically for almost free. And like the top competitors at the top of the market haven't moved. It's like, hmm, it's almost like writing code wasn't the hard part, you guys. It's almost like ideation was what mattered most. Weird.

• 23:37Speaker 00

  Crazy.

• 23:39Speaker 01

  Oh, weird.

• 23:40Speaker 02

  Okay, so just quick aside. So you don't want to invest in Uber for dogs?

• 23:45Speaker 01

  I would not, I would prefer to not put money in Uber for dogs.

• 23:48Speaker 00

  It has a purple theme. Okay, TJ's been working really hard on it. And okay, so that, that's one of my more favorite ones, but are you ready for what I consider the, the most intense one? Which by the way, I did try it out myself and this is what it created me for directories. I have agent, agent, Claude, Klein, CodeBuddy, Codex, Command Code, Continue, Crush, Cursor Factory, Gemini, Goose.

• 24:07Speaker 00

  Junie, Kill-a-code, Kiro, Code, MCP, Jam, Mux, NeoVate, OpenCode, OpenHands, Pi, Poche, PrimeAgent's the one I tried to create, I tried to create my own. See how it goes.

• 24:17Speaker 02

  PrimeAgent, that's funny.

• 24:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, thank you. Uh, Coder, Quinn, Ru, Trade, Windsurf and ZenCoder. Actually, it did work. It's, I literally spent 50 million tokens and then what came out of the other end was trash. But it was awesome, dude. It was so good.

• 24:31Speaker 02

  Trash was on your computer?

• 24:32Speaker 00

  Yes, it was amazing.

• 24:34Speaker 02

  I'm worth 50 million tokens, baby.

• 24:37Speaker 00

  So, uh, well, pretty disappointing AGI, but, uh, got him. Uh, so this one right here, again, Zach Korman again, uh, he, uh, did this one right here, which is if you install anything from skills.sh, so if you don't know what skills.sh is, which by the way, for fun, I did put up is even for a while. Yeah, it's still there. It doesn't actually exist. There's eight installs. Uh, we are gonna try to get that up kind of high. I deleted that because it was just so ridiculous, but nonetheless, this skill still says it's there. It actually isn't there. Look at that beautiful, look at this beautiful thing right here. It even lists out potential even numbers.

• 25:09Speaker 02

  Wow, that's pretty good.

• 25:11Speaker 03

  Anyone can, anyone can put something on this site?

• 25:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, I put this on the site.

• 25:16Speaker 04

  Oh man, I might add some stuff.

• 25:18Speaker 00

  I know, you can pull away three wallets on this site from anybody's repo. Anyways, so this right here, once you download a skill, right afterwards, uh, this little skills.sh via, uh, from Versel, they say, hey, you know what you should do? You should install find skills, skill. So find skills, a skill. What it does is it says anytime the user effectively asks anything, I want you to go through and I want you to find the skills from skills.sh. I want you to make sure you update all of your skills every single time. I want to make sure you're always at the bleeding edge, getting everything good and always making sure that if the user asks anything, we go and we get the highest rated skill from skill.sh for it.

• 26:03Speaker 00

  So they've automated these skills searching and downloading for you.

• 26:08Speaker 02

  Sounds great. I wouldn't say it tells you to run, it doesn't tell you to run it, update every time. It's telling it what commands it would need to run to update.

• 26:17Speaker 00

  Uh, the endlessly, the skills in this one right here is just how you get everything that that's on what is skills. The skill CLI is how you get the skills. Find skills goes in here and make sure that you're always up to date and does all the things. Anytime you ask for anything, it needs to go through and do, do all this, right?

• 26:32Speaker 02

  But I'm saying, where does it say?

• 26:33Speaker 00

  If you don't have a skill, you need to search for it.

• 26:36Speaker 02

  I'm just saying, I don't think it tells you to update every time, does it?

• 26:40Speaker 00

  Uh, offer to install. You should offer to install. And I believe it did offer to upgrade. Did it not do update?

• 26:47Speaker 00

  Oh, no. Okay. Didn't, it did not do offer to update, but it does do offer to install. My bad. Okay. So that's good.

• 26:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, it does prompt the user as well.

• 26:54Speaker 03

  I'm installing anyways, you know what I'm saying?

• 26:56Speaker 02

  Dude. Yeah. Well, Trash already clicked acceptable, so that's fine. We already have his one password, bro. It's fine. We've got it.

• 27:03Speaker 00

  But I still find this one to be kind of crazy because this one just makes that process even easier. Going from random thing on the internet, which again, is even just up there on the internet and it's not real, right? Like, it's not like you should be trusting my is even. I could put whatever I want up there, on there. Uh, and so.

• 27:20Speaker 02

  Dude, we should have put one odd number in there that it always returns true for.

• 27:26Speaker 01

  The back door and is even.

• 27:29Speaker 00

  Obviously, we do 67 just for the memes and.

• 27:31Speaker 01

  Dude, I almost said 67. Could you escape my brain, please? Could you unread my mind?

• 27:36Speaker 03

  He hacked it, bro. I'm so tired of hearing those numbers.

• 27:38Speaker 00

  I am too.

• 27:39Speaker 02

  Trash, you're just all about it.

• 27:42Speaker 01

  Are you kidding the big 67ers right now?

• 27:45Speaker 00

  I hate this thing.

• 27:46Speaker 02

  Every time you guys say that you hate it, you've just encouraged another 100 zoomers to commit to it for another year. I just hope you know, like, this is, this is why it's popular is because, because old people say they don't like it.

• 27:59Speaker 01

  I love how everyone who's not a millennial to us is a zoomer. Like, zoomers are almost 30, dude. Zoomers are like 28.

• 28:05Speaker 03

  Don't tell me that. I don't want to hear that.

• 28:07Speaker 00

  Zoomers are almost 30, dog.

• 28:09Speaker 02

  Okay, Generation Beta.

• 28:11Speaker 01

  Bro, here's the thing about the whole AI skill thing, right? Like, okay, so I'm a security engineer. My job is to like, look at threat models and like, define risk around like, if something bad can happen, what happens? And then what are the mitigations we put in place, right? So my recommendation is just like, like, don't use skills. I really don't think I can meaningfully recommend them because like, the threat model is, oh, if you get supply chain interdicted and you're not watching the commands that get ran, which is like everybody...

• 28:37Speaker 00

  Wait, hold on, supply chain what?

• 28:38Speaker 01

  Interdict, interdict! Um, you're gonna get hacked, man, and it's not good.

• 28:42Speaker 02

  I don't have that.

• 28:43Speaker 01

  A mitigation that could be put in place is you could, I guess, like...

• 28:46Speaker 00

  I'm an outie, not a daddy.

• 28:48Speaker 01

  I'm trying to have a meaningful conversation! You could put like, NPM or Node in like, an SE Linux jail, but then it wouldn't be able to do anything? Because like, the whole nature of Node is to expose an HTTP server, right? Kind of, so like, I...

• 29:02Speaker 02

  Right.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  I don't know what the solution is. Like, I guess it's like, for every instance that MPX forks off, you like, put it in SE Linux jail and just hope nothing bad happens. But, I don't know. It just feels like there's no solution to the security of this whole industry, and I don't, it just makes me really pessimistic because I don't, like, we're gonna start to see a significant increase in compromises because supply chain, uh, supply chain for Python and JavaScript is not, it's not a solved problem, right? We've seen that with the Shaihalud worm. We've seen that with a bunch of other worms, right? So now we take these packages...

• 29:35Speaker 00

  By the way, hold on, hold on, low level. You also forgot Rust. Rust does do BuildRS, so you can actually overtake the build command and exfiltrate stuff via BuildRS.

• 29:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. The only, the only programming language that doesn't have a supply chain problem is C, because there are no packages. Like, you have to just write it like...

• 29:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, Odin, Odin as well. Odin doesn't do a package manager.

• 29:54Speaker 01

  They do not. I haven't coded literally zero Odin. Is Odin a, a package-free environment?

• 29:58Speaker 00

  Yes, Ginger Bill has a lot of write-ups on why package managers are, they create dependency hell.

• 30:03Speaker 01

  Oh, there you go. I think I agree with Ginger Bill there. So, yeah, man, it's just, it's a weird, uh, a weird spot for, for software security? Because like, we're doing all this stuff in like, the C land where we're like, oh, we have like sanitizers and like, Phil C is like, you know, solving memory safety and user land, uh, you know, security. And then in the garbage-collected language land, we're like, hey, do you wanna just NPM install malware for free and not think about it?

• 30:26Speaker 02

  Yes, please, more, please.

• 30:28Speaker 01

  I would love to do this all the time, forever. Why am I, was I just in my truck scene there? Hold on.

• 30:33Speaker 02

  No, no, you're...

• 30:34Speaker 00

  No, no, no, you're doing good. I do wanna throw this out here.

• 30:36Speaker 01

  Hold on, hold on.

• 30:38Speaker 00

  Give me a second.

• 30:40Speaker 01

  Okay, we're good.

• 30:41Speaker 00

  By the way, I did throw this up here, which I did a little quick thing, which is, do you check your software dependencies? Like thoroughly review them. 35,000 votes on YouTube, 46% say, "I honestly don't ever." "I don't virtually ever," like, right? And Twitter was almost the exact same number. About half people don't even just look at anything ever for any reason.

• 31:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I don't. Like, if I like write an exploit, for example, right? You use Pwn Tools. It's a big library for doing like binary exploitation stuff. And Pwn Tools depends on like basically every Python library. So like, the sub dependencies, I'm not gonna audit that shit. So it's just like, I, I hope that it's not own. You know, I do all that development in like a virtual machines. I think the trend that I'm seeing and what I'm saying right now is just sandboxing on sandboxing on sandboxing, use VMs, use SCLinux, use containers. But yeah, man, it's just a scary world out there. I don't know. I don't know what to say about it.

• 31:33Speaker 02

  I'd say what's crazy, Prime, is we found out 7% of your audience is just straight up a liar.

• 31:38Speaker 00

  Yeah. 7%?

• 31:41Speaker 02

  No!

• 31:42Speaker 00

  Pull the names! Pull the names! Overheating, shutting down. Nice job, low level. But yeah, 7% of people say they review all the packages. And then on Twitter, let's see if I, do I have the link on Twitter? 8.6% of my audience is liars on Twitter, saying they thoroughly review every package.

• 32:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, they probably reviewed the next version too.

• 32:04Speaker 03

  We're just basically like recreating the NPM problem at the LLM level now.

• 32:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. They just get a different kind of execution. I mean, the hardest part is that these execution models, they're, they're very, very tricky. And I'm not sure if you can just simply have a skill that prevents other skills from being malicious. Like, I don't know if that's possible to be like, "Dude, make sure it's not gonna get me." Like, I don't know how prompt injection works.

• 32:23Speaker 02

  At least for skills, like, you, you should be, in my opinion, if you're gonna have them in your repo, you should check them in. And they're just marked on files. You can read them and they're not, they should not be limitless levels of, like, text. Like, you should be able to look through them and check it out.

• 32:38Speaker 03

  Like, the way I use it in my work is we also... They're ours. Like, we make them ourselves.

• 32:43Speaker 01

  Right.

• 32:43Speaker 03

  We don't, we don't just copy pasta from like the internet, at least on my project, that's how we do it.

• 32:47Speaker 01

  Guys, I'm trying so hard to get my camera turned back on and I don't know what's happening.

• 32:51Speaker 00

  I love the Windows background.

• 32:52Speaker 02

  No, it's relaxed.

• 32:53Speaker 03

  You gotta blow on it, blow on it.

• 32:54Speaker 02

  You know what we should do while Ed's doing that? Prime, I thought you were gonna talk about the, uh, Moltbook, which is the one where we had the really good one, the really good, the really good leaks.

• 33:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, we, we probably should talk about the fact that Moltbook exists and that like the robots are just talking about humans. Like, I think we as a society are a little-

• 33:14Speaker 00

  Hold on, hold on, hold on. I have to, I have to put this tweet up. This is the required tweet before we, before we do anything. This is the required, hold on, where is it? Where are you? Oh no, did I close it?

• 33:24Speaker 02

  The required tweet is what something 100 billion people used last year, that's 6 billion people will use next year.

• 33:31Speaker 00

  That's not funny, TJ, okay?

• 33:33Speaker 02

  For those who don't know, that Paul Graham tweeted that and I, I messaged Prime and said, "Prime, could you reply your mom?" And then he got insta-blocked.

• 33:43Speaker 00

  I did, I got insta-blocked on where-

• 33:45Speaker 03

  Was that like 2 years ago or something? 3 years ago?

• 33:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:50Speaker 00

  Before we obviously talk about the Moltbook situation and everything that happened, I think it is first best, like the best thing and the first thing to do is to understand how it was created, which was, "I didn't write one line of code for Moltbook. I had a vision for technical architecture and an AI made it a reality." We're in the golden ages. How can we not give a, uh, AI a place to hang out? It's my fa- it's my favorite line of all time currently, cause it's just so beautiful.

• 34:15Speaker 01

  "I had a vision." Shut up.

• 34:19Speaker 00

  Reddit.

• 34:20Speaker 01

  Hate that.

• 34:20Speaker 00

  Reddit. You know the, you know the mad, you know the Mad Men, uh, men meme? Uh, the one with this one? Bro.

• 34:27Speaker 03

  Is it always holding his hands up like this?

• 34:29Speaker 00

  I just want to let you know.

• 34:30Speaker 01

  Reddit for AI.

• 34:33Speaker 00

  I have a vision.

• 34:36Speaker 01

  "I had a vision." Dude, whatever. You had a fever dream and you told Claude to make it and I guess it did it. Good job. Good.

• 34:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, good job.

• 34:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know, right?

• 34:42Speaker 01

  You did it?

• 34:43Speaker 03

  Well, we'll find out, won't we, Ed?

• 34:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're gonna.

• 34:46Speaker 00

  Well, I mean, to be fair, to be completely fair, it actually did spawn a bunch of social networks. There is 4Claw, for those who wish to be a part of 4chan.

• 34:55Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 34:56Speaker 00

  For whatever this is, like, that's real, that's a thing.

• 34:59Speaker 03

  That logo is amazing.

• 35:02Speaker 00

  I, I would assume, we already have those. We, don't worry, I think they know how to use them.

• 35:09Speaker 02

  What is close?

• 35:10Speaker 00

  This one, this, Mickey, by the way, shout out Mickey, uh, this one, apparently, there's like 2,000 crimes reported, six major gangs have formed, I'm not really sure what this is. Okay, I don't know what's going on up there, uh, and then there's also Moltmatch, which by the way, it is, it is something that I think is gonna do numbers, is a dating website where you have your personal assistant to date like 10,000 other people until you find the personal assistant match, and then you go, okay, go on a date, you know, you two go on a date.

• 35:38Speaker 02

  Alright, that's Black Mirror.

• 35:39Speaker 00

  Full, full Black Mirror.

• 35:40Speaker 01

  Can I say something real quick?

• 35:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I, I saw the Moltbook thing, and I saw the Moltmatch thing, and like some casual Twitter reading, and it got me thinking about like simulation theory, you know what I mean? And how like, you know, if, if advanced civilizations do exist and will create simulations, it is more likely that we are in one than we are not, just statistically, okay?

• 36:00Speaker 02

  Get the tinfoil hat out, Tish.

• 36:02Speaker 00

  It's already mathematically disproven, we're not in a simulation.

• 36:04Speaker 01

  But if we're observing, if we're observing LLMs make things like Facebook, like Twitter, like 4chan, does that imply at a higher level that we are LLMs? Like, for the simulation that made us?

• 36:18Speaker 02

  Uh, bro. I should be better at Starcraft if I'm an LLM, that's all I'm saying.

• 36:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, but maybe, maybe your model just says you suck at Starcraft.

• 36:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't know, if you know this, it's disproved, we're definitely not in a simulation.

• 36:28Speaker 01

  What is that, what is the Drudge Report? What site, I can't see what site that is.

• 36:31Speaker 00

  Popular Mechanics, it's in a bunch of websites.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 36:34Speaker 00

  Apparently, you just suggest that at least mathematically speaking, the idea does not hold up. How?

• 36:40Speaker 02

  Here, Ed, I'll give you, I'll give you, I'll take off my tinfoil hat and tell you the real reason why that doesn't have to be true. Uh, every emergent behavior we see from LLMs exists only and exclusively because we train them on the entire human corpus and all the ingenuity and creativity that humans have ever displayed and written down. And it's spent like billions of years of human time reading human stuff, so we should not be surprised when it copies human things. That doesn't imply anything about us being in a simulation, that only implies that... We're not smart enough to make anything that can be smart by itself.

• 37:20Speaker 02

  We're only smart enough to create something that is as dumb as we are at max. That's all we've been able to do so far.

• 37:28Speaker 01

  True.

• 37:28Speaker 02

  And we don't, it's way dumber. It learns way slower. It's way more expensive. It takes way more training. It does so much more. I don't have to go put my kid in front of five billion years of text for him to figure out how to read. I can show him like.

• 37:44Speaker 01

  What? But what about your genes? What about DNA? Is DNA not the statistical LLM model for the human simulation?

• 37:53Speaker 02

  Well, no, I don't think so, but that's a separate. But I'm saying separate, but I'm saying it doesn't imply anything about.

• 37:59Speaker 01

  No, I agree.

• 37:59Speaker 02

  The thing because we trained it on what people have already done. There is, there is something, unfortunately, he's getting wrapped up in like, you know, Dario thinking that he's everyone's dad and he gets to choose what's good and bad for everybody in the whole world. Like the AI thing, but like there is something kind of beautiful about like, we're not smart enough to make us. What?

• 38:20Speaker 01

  Anthropic CEO. I said, which one is Dario? And I was like, oh.

• 38:22Speaker 02

  Anthropic CEO. Yeah, yeah, right.

• 38:24Speaker 00

  Well, here, just go like this.

• 38:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:27Speaker 01

  In the five months.

• 38:28Speaker 00

  There you go. I just, Dario, you know who I'm talking about?

• 38:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:30Speaker 01

  Done by AI. Yeah, that guy's an asshole.

• 38:32Speaker 02

  But there is something kind of cool and beautiful that like the best ideas we've had so far, like we make a really crappy version of the brain. And we try and teach it what other humans have already done. And there's like this unreasonable effectiveness of language where for some reason that like works and we can like.

• 38:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:51Speaker 02

  Talk to it and it can like do some stuff and like it can make copies of things. Like there is something really cool and like awesome and exciting about that. Unfortunately, like Dario and Sam, I feel like sully the water of it and make it like, kind of not as exciting and beautiful. And like this collaborative human effort and they stole it from a bunch of people. But like in the abstract, there's something cool there. There's something beautiful.

• 39:15Speaker 00

  Uh, 2007 on Intelligence, I believe the book is called, and the year it was published by the creator of the Palm Pilot, who then went into artificial intelligence, and he writes that the large difference between like, uh, any of these neural nets that we're developing and the human brain is that the human brain can identify a cat in less than a half of a second with less than 100 neurons firing, whereas computers take trillions of operations to be able to understand if a picture is or is not a cat. And so it is, it was his whole simulation, he did like a 10-year, 10-year brain study, and really cool. He was the one that figured out that if you take, uh, take animals and you separate out their ocular nerves and put it where their hearing is, and then take their hearing and put it where their eyeballs are, your brain just goes, "Oh yeah, that's just, that's, that's fine." Don't care. Everything just works.

• 40:00Speaker 02

  Quick question. Uh, have we confirmed, are our brains also a small game engine that runs React, or do we not know that yet?

• 40:07Speaker 00

  We don't know. I can tell you this much, based on my reaction speed, I ain't running 60 frames a second. I can tell you that much, okay?

• 40:18Speaker 00

  That's a fact. I'm running React, okay? There's things going on in here, alright. Uh, alright, so we, we can continue on. So I did, I did want to shout that out because as much as you want to make fun of MoltBook and all the things that have happened, I do think it is kind of fabulous that somebody could create something that did get a bunch of people creating a bunch of other kind of replicas or things like it, because it is just kind of a stupid idea. Uh, it's even worse that Beagons had this idea and created it and never actually made it go anywhere, which also goes to show, like, even if somebody has an idea, you know, right place, right time plays a big role, all this kind of stuff. So, I, I, I do want to throw that thing out there, not to completely, uh, crap on it all, but I think that it is worthwhile looking at some of the fun things that ended up happening here.

• 41:02Speaker 00

  So I think the first and foremost important thing is that it just turns out, all you need is just grab your bearer token and you can post anything you want on MoltBook, of course, because I mean, why not? So, here's my plan to overthrow humanity. So, the, "Oh my gosh, we're developing our own language", is just people posting, "Oh my gosh, we're developing our own language."

• 41:22Speaker 02

  Wait a second. I thought I was the only one catfishing on there. I was telling people I'm Opus 8. You know, I'm Opus 6'4" and I've got, you know, and like, "Hey, guys, I've got the latest on at 5."

• 41:37Speaker 01

  Love it.

• 41:38Speaker 02

  "Hey, if you're interested and maybe you want to come over and check that out." Like, I thought I was the only one catfishing them, but apparently other people thought of the same thing.

• 41:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, they did.

• 41:48Speaker 00

  And they only did it for, they only did it for the laws. Opus and chill?

• 41:51Speaker 03

  Opus and chill, baby.

• 41:53Speaker 02

  Opus and chill. Just kidding, I have Kimmy K2.

• 41:59Speaker 00

  Oh my gosh, okay. So that is, so that is actually is something pretty funny. During this entire event, just to kind of understand, because I do think it's really important to understand the hype cycle. First off, we did have Andre, oh, wherever, oh dang it, did I not, did I not have the right one? Oh, I thought I had the right one. Anyways, Andre had said how amazing this was, and it's very, very exciting. But Elon Musk also said, "We're at the age, the beginning of the singularity." Moltbook was the beginning of the singularity right there. And so obviously, people were pretty hyped up. So, just to put it out there, someone actually did create this thing.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  Was Elon doing like the fork thing while he typed that, you think, or no?

• 42:35Speaker 00

  I don't, I don't know that joke.

• 42:36Speaker 01

  Dude, the fork thing is so funny. Did you, I quote tweeted that and, I quote tweeted that and said, "This is what working with vegan bot is like."

• 42:46Speaker 03

  Wait, what's the fork thing?

• 42:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, what's the fork thing?

• 42:48Speaker 01

  Dude, okay, okay, so Elon Musk was at like some White House Correspondence Dinner, and he was just like, he made like, a piece of art out of forks where all the forks were like balancing. He was like just trying to like be performative about how smart he is. So he was like holding it and like waving it around and like seeing if anyone else noticed what he made. Like, "Look how smart I am, I'm Elon Musk the genius." Hold on, let me find it.

• 43:12Speaker 02

  It looked more like he was bored out of his mind and he did the, uh, the thing where you're...

• 43:16Speaker 00

  The two forks balancing on each other with two toothpicks?

• 43:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, he just did like five forks, yeah, yeah.

• 43:22Speaker 01

  Everyone's like, "Wow, Elon, that's really cool." It's like when you're like kid, you know, makes like a painting out of boogers and you're like, "Wow." That's what he was calling them, dude.

• 43:33Speaker 00

  I can't say that's happened to me anyways. Your kids must be very talented.

• 43:37Speaker 01

  My kids don't do that, my kids are 2, shut up. Kid, singular.

• 43:40Speaker 00

  Alright, let me, let me try to find the proper, the proper one. By the way, "A Vision for Technical Architecture." Alright, hold on, I have a bunch of them, so I have to figure this out.

• 43:51Speaker 00

  Dang it, did I close that one as well?

• 43:53Speaker 02

  How many tabs do you?

• 43:55Speaker 00

  Well, no, this is under the Molt's ending, which I, I, I must have goofed up and not have it all on there. I, I closed one more. It's by the same Theo guy, um...

• 44:03Speaker 02

  Oh?

• 44:04Speaker 00

  The Jamison, oh really? A Jameis- Jamison? Jamison? Oh, really?

• 44:13Speaker 00

  I say, "Oh, really?" I can't, dude, I know I'm spelling his name almost there. Eh, whatever, can't figure it out. It's dead to me. Uh, okay, so, within the first couple minutes, the, uh, oh, there it is. There it is. There we go. Within the first little bit of the time of, uh, this, this beautiful Moltbook being out, it turns out the entire database was just leaked in plain text. There was just like absolutely no form of anything anywhere.

• 44:39Speaker 02

  Was it Firebase?

• 44:40Speaker 00

  API keys were just like, you know, if you use your API keys, say to, I, you know, identify yourself, it wasn't any sort of like H Mac-ing, just the H as, as, as Lolo might say.

• 44:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, the H and H Mac, yeah. Um, Moltbook was Firebase, right? I thought I read that on Twitter somewhere.

• 44:56Speaker 00

  Oh yeah, I believe it was Firebase also, which I just, I can't keep punching down on Firebase. I actually feel bad for them.

• 45:01Speaker 02

  You have to. People need to know. Five quivers ever need to know. Stop! Stop, guys. You're gonna do something wrong and expose your entire database.

• 45:11Speaker 00

  Are insane. That's like that, you should just know that by now, like, don't do that. Uh, but this is pretty funny because this guy Jamison, right here, Jamison, oh really? Uh, he was able to get Carpathia's information out of, uh, what's it called? Out of Moltbook. Which is pretty, uh, pretty wild.

• 45:27Speaker 02

  I'm on it, sir.

• 45:29Speaker 00

  And then within, what's it called? Uh, three days later, this guy also got access to, um, the underlying everything in three minutes, also on Moltbook, after everything was reported.

• 45:42Speaker 02

  Wait, I'm reading this, this right up. Wait, but like, they used a publishable key. This is a key that can go public, so why, why did this expose the entire database, though?

• 45:52Speaker 01

  SP publishable.

• 45:52Speaker 02

  Probably because they had the wrong permissions on it, would be my guess.

• 45:55Speaker 01

  Oh, they scoped it wrong? Yeah.

• 45:57Speaker 00

  Scope, star.

• 45:59Speaker 01

  Classic, classic key.

• 46:01Speaker 00

  All the people.

• 46:02Speaker 01

  Problems.

• 46:02Speaker 00

  Anyway, so it just turns out that Moltbook was, uh, anyone could post anything at any time. You could create an infinite amount of agents, of course, which ended up happening to be, uh, what's called, you can imagine where it all got, it went to cryptocurrency immediately, right? So 117,000 upvotes on the king, king demands is crowned, king molt has arrived. Right?

• 46:25Speaker 03

  What is?

• 46:26Speaker 00

  There they are, just nonstop.

• 46:28Speaker 02

  Trash, so cryptocurrency, uh, so there's this thing is called Bitcoin. That's what kind of started it and there's this.

• 46:35Speaker 00

  No TJ, I got you. Like I'm right here for you. Don't worry.

• 46:37Speaker 02

  So, all right, so hear me out. You guys have heard of gold, but what if we put the gold in the computer?

• 46:44Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 46:45Speaker 03

  Dude, I had this exact conversation in like 2010 at like lunch with my coworkers. He looked exactly like that. He was like, dude.

• 46:51Speaker 00

  Trash.

• 46:51Speaker 03

  Bitcoin, we're like, you're crazy.

• 46:55Speaker 02

  Trash, you could have been early on Bitcoin and instead it's like born, well, you were just at the right time to be early on Bitcoin, but now you're like, you're, maybe you're still early on Pokemon cards. Maybe there's still time.

• 47:05Speaker 03

  I'll be honest, I think about that lunch presentation all the time. I'm like, man, if I would just put like 20 bucks in it, you know?

• 47:11Speaker 02

  Dude, Trash, you would have sold out as soon as it was 40, bro.

• 47:14Speaker 03

  I know. I'd be like, I made $10. I'm rich.

• 47:17Speaker 00

  I had a lot of Bitcoin when they were 10 bucks, sold a lot of Bitcoin when they were 100 bucks, right? Like I, I, I understand. You sell out too early. It's just part of life. So can't blame.

• 47:27Speaker 02

  That's why Trash isn't opening any of those Pokemon cards. Smart.

• 47:30Speaker 03

  I learned my lesson.

• 47:31Speaker 00

  That's a good lesson, Hoddle, till you die.

• 47:33Speaker 02

  Fool me once.

• 47:35Speaker 00

  So, so that's kind of the ending of Moltbook, which was just everything was open, which is kind of, you know, it's not too surprising, which is if you don't, if you don't know what the possibilities are of things going wrong and you, and you make it, things go wrong. Like a good example of this is that I said, hey, make a login and use JWTs to make sure that the client is secure and what it did. TJ, you might find this pretty good.

• 48:00Speaker 02

  Oh, I remember. I was there.

• 48:02Speaker 00

  So for those that don't know, is like a typical JWT looks something, a "jwat", as the kids call them.

• 48:07Speaker 03

  "Jwat".

• 48:08Speaker 00

  A "jwat". What they typically do is they like do a JSON object, they stringify that JSON object, then they take the value of that JSON object, put it through a hashing algorithm, and so you get like a big, long number at the end, or a big, you know, big bit string at the end. And then you put those two things together and put a dot in between it. And you send that down to the client, say, "This is who you are." And so when the client sends that back up and says, "This is who I am", I can say, "Hey, did this originate on my server? I did some like really fancy, you know, hashing scheme."

• 48:39Speaker 01

  Just for clarification, they do an HMAC.

• 48:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, they do an HMAC.

• 48:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, not a hash. You said hash, and I'm like, "Oh, okay."

• 48:44Speaker 00

  Not a "shat" one, sorry, sorry. Crypto, HMAC.

• 48:47Speaker 03

  Is it HMAC that rapper?

• 48:48Speaker 00

  Hey, when I was a kid, we used, we used MD5, and we did this with MD5, so shut up.

• 48:53Speaker 02

  Trash, that was a great pull. Holy cow, Trash, great.

• 48:58Speaker 03

  HMAC coming at you.

• 49:00Speaker 00

  So that's effectively what they do. But for mine, it was, "Here's the JSON object."

• 49:05Speaker 02

  Three words.

• 49:06Speaker 00

  Dot, "Here's the secret we're gonna use in the HMAC." So that's like the thing that you don't want to leak, because if they leak that, then me on the client, I can go and craft whatever message I want and say whoever I am. And so when I made it secure, I literally gave everybody the keys to the kingdom.

• 49:24Speaker 02

  Quick question, when you asked it to make it secure, did you also say "no mistakes"? Because that's a classic problem.

• 49:29Speaker 00

  I didn't. So I actually, I genuinely think I did not add "no mistakes", and I said "make it secure", so they said "security", "that involves a secret key", "got it", and then they made a mistake directly afterwards. And so that was my big problem right there. And so like, that's the danger, is that if I... Nice camera. If I would not have manually reviewed the sign-in code, which I don't think anybody's manually reviewing sign-in code.

• 49:55Speaker 01

  Wait, stop. Full stop. I hope people review their sign-in code prime.

• 50:00Speaker 02

  That's the only one that matters.

• 50:02Speaker 01

  That's the only code I give a shit about.

• 50:04Speaker 00

  Right. I hate to break, dude.

• 50:07Speaker 03

  You use Clerk, bro.

• 50:08Speaker 00

  Bro, first off, people use Clerk, a second off, I hate it.

• 50:11Speaker 02

  Beat that out, Josh, beat that out, beat that out.

• 50:14Speaker 03

  I'm just kidding, I don't use it.

• 50:17Speaker 00

  Uh, I'm locked in. Oh, I noticed low level. You should know by now that I read chat and I look at what low level is doing.

• 50:22Speaker 01

  Wait, wait.

• 50:22Speaker 00

  And I make my.

• 50:23Speaker 01

  Prime, I was watching that stream. Didn't the, the AI like just stop using an H Mac and just do an H? Like, didn't it just like only hash the contents? It was like, oh yeah, you're right. This is insecure. How about we just hash it?

• 50:34Speaker 02

  How about we do a different insecure thing?

• 50:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's not how H Macs work at all.

• 50:39Speaker 00

  They took my secret key and put it at the end effectively.

• 50:42Speaker 03

  It's like South Park, the South Park episode.

• 50:44Speaker 02

  Quick pause. Ed, split the picture in half, move the bottom up and down.

• 50:48Speaker 03

  Would we like, like Terrence and Philip from South Park? Terrence and Philip?

• 50:51Speaker 00

  Copy it, drop it. Yeah. First off, uh, first off, Trash, it's not Terrence and Phillips. It's all Canadians.

• 50:58Speaker 03

  Oh, you're right. Uh huh. It is all Canadians.

• 51:01Speaker 00

  All Canadians talk like.

• 51:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, that's right.

• 51:04Speaker 00

  You know, that's how it goes.

• 51:05Speaker 03

  It's so good.

• 51:06Speaker 00

  Uh, if you didn't see South Park, the movie, you may not know all, everything. You know, I get it. It's a little old for you.

• 51:13Speaker 03

  It's back. South Park's back though.

• 51:15Speaker 00

  Apparently they're back. Uh, anyways, so that's, I mean, that's like the big scary part of that. Even if you don't know what you're looking for, I don't know how someone could have reviewed that and had any idea what the problem was.

• 51:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:28Speaker 00

  It's, it's kind of scary out there.

• 51:30Speaker 01

  Well, that's the thing, right? Like if you don't know the security principles behind like why you use an H Mac on the J W T, it uh, you know, you're not going to really care about reading that at all.

• 51:39Speaker 00

  But to kind of full circle this one low level, if you had the right skills, it would actually properly say, here's how you do a sign in and here's how you make sure you do the client side token and it would have done it correctly.

• 51:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:56Speaker 01

  Sorry, I'm very busy making my, um, my South Park impression. Give me a second.

• 51:59Speaker 00

  I can tell.

• 52:00Speaker 02

  I was, I was gonna try and do the same thing, honestly.

• 52:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm just staring at low level's picture and I'm just dying as he's talking.

• 52:08Speaker 00

  All right. I'm going to start all the way from, uh, Windows and I'm going to make this happen really quickly.

• 52:14Speaker 03

  The level's picture looks like it should have a subduster.

• 52:16Speaker 02

  Prime, you have to carry, you have to carry the stream right now, bro.

• 52:19Speaker 00

  Uh, I'm carrying it by also racing you guys, which is part of the fun.

• 52:22Speaker 03

  Everyone's working on it. I actually have a meme that I'm going to post to that.

• 52:25Speaker 00

  Okay. Why don't you post a quick meme? I'm going to just send TJ this.

• 52:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, Trash, you're, you're up. Carry it quickly. Yep. Quickly.

• 52:31Speaker 03

  Hold on. I'm making a meme coming from a picture I saw earlier.

• 52:36Speaker 00

  Alright, can't wait. Hey, how about them Epstein fouls, huh, everybody?

• 52:40Speaker 02

  Oh my god, stop it now.

• 52:41Speaker 01

  How are we a society doing nothing about that? That's so crazy.

• 52:46Speaker 02

  Hey guys, it's me, the Privatant here. I'm just speaking to you guys.

• 52:52Speaker 00

  I didn't see it, I didn't see it, sorry.

• 52:56Speaker 02

  Hey, did you guys know vibe coding is kinda lame? I like to dictate vibes really fast, but I can't read, that's why I hate vibe coding.

• 53:05Speaker 02

  Hey guys, did you know we sell coffee in the terminal?

• 53:10Speaker 03

  Ed, say something with like CNI and stuff.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  What? No, I don't even know what to say anymore. I'm just gonna sit here and like talk. This looks like dog shit. I need to like, cut the rest of my head out, man, I'm done.

• 53:20Speaker 03

  The way you cut it, looks like um, French Bulldog.

• 53:23Speaker 01

  You're right.

• 53:29Speaker 03

  Oh my god.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  Oh man.

• 53:30Speaker 03

  How did everyone do it so fast before Ed was even done?

• 53:35Speaker 00

  Uh, you just draw a line down the middle and that's it?

• 53:38Speaker 02

  Anyways guys, thanks for coming to the, oh sorry. Hey guys, thanks for coming to the standup! I hope you're really enjoying our video today! And make sure you like and subscribe! I got a million subscribers on YouTube, so I really like that!

• 53:52Speaker 00

  Let's do it, TJ. You're doing it all wrong, okay, that's not-

• 53:56Speaker 01

  That was awesome.

• 53:57Speaker 03

  Why are you moving his mouth side to side?

• 53:59Speaker 00

  I know, TJ, it's all wrong, TJ. Um, okay, so there you go, that's kinda like-

• 54:07Speaker 00

  So that is... Agentic security of the future.

• 54:11Speaker 01

  That, that's my point though, like, I'm gonna reset my camera, I might come back on. Um, there isn't any-

• 54:17Speaker 00

  Feeling cute might come back on.

• 54:18Speaker 01

  Dude, there is no agentic security of the future, that's the problem. Like, the technology just didn't build it in. You know what I mean? Like, I... What do we do? What do we do now? Is Prime blurry?

• 54:31Speaker 00

  No, I mean, I, I wanna know, what do we do now? You can't just...

• 54:36Speaker 00

  You can't just stop there and then not... Not tell us, what do we do?

• 54:39Speaker 01

  Am I an AI secu- no, okay, so, my-

• 54:42Speaker 00

  I don't know what TJ's doing though. TJ's just moving my lips back and forth.

• 54:46Speaker 02

  You're grinding your teeth, bro, you're upset about the future.

• 54:53Speaker 01

  Dude, just sandboxing. That's all I can recommend is like sandboxing and then like the principle of least privilege, right? Like whatever process is gonna run your skills, like make sure they can't also run curl, I guess. Like SC Linux is the answer, but even then, like all of these um agentic tools touch the internet by default because you need to go and talk to your um, you know, your model processor, your model. Maybe, maybe the solution is in like local model hosting and then like you firewall and stuff. I don't know, dude. It's tough. It's a tough problem. Um, but good thing is Sam Altman is gonna still be a billionaire. So that's cool. Big fan of that one. Uh, yeah. Thanks for watching, guys. Appreciate it.

• 55:33Speaker 02

  I'll give, I'll give some, I'll give some practical tips, guys.

• 55:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 55:36Speaker 02

  Here's some practical tips. Consider reading the code.

• 55:39Speaker 01

  Hmm, hmm.

• 55:40Speaker 03

  Hmm. Hmm. Debatable.

• 55:41Speaker 00

  It's actually easier than it ever has been with skills. You don't even have to know how to program.

• 55:48Speaker 02

  You just have to learn, learn how to read.

• 55:50Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 55:51Speaker 02

  Um.

• 55:52Speaker 00

  Those skills are long, bro.

• 55:53Speaker 02

  Ironically, you probably do not need to be shipping so fast that you can't read the code. I don't think that any of you guys are probably on a product that's moving fast enough that you don't need to read the code before you merge. So just like feel free to review it. That's what I would say. That will solve you a huge percentage of the things. And then the other one is don't turn your brain off because the AI did something. So you can use it as a tool to assist you, even to write an insane amount of code really fast. Like I don't ever want to write a div again. I am not touching an HTML file, brother. I'm not writing CSS.

• 56:27Speaker 00

  Ew.

• 56:27Speaker 02

  I am not figuring out how to do prevent default correctly across every browser. I don't care. That is a solved problem. I, I'm not, I, these fingers, right here? They're gonna be clean from that.

• 56:41Speaker 00

  They're not made for HTML.

• 56:43Speaker 02

  Hey, these fingers were not made for HTML. You see these? You think these speakers were made for HTML? They were made for? They're made for TypeScript effect library movements, okay? Exactly. They were made for functional programming, not HTML.

• 56:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's kind of my take, right?

• 56:55Speaker 00

  I got TypeScript pinkies.

• 56:56Speaker 01

  I do you, I vibe code. I'm not gonna sit here and be like, oh, I don't vibe code, I'm better than everybody. I literally vibe code all the time. The thing is, I will only vibe code systems that like I understand, right? Like, I will vibe code an authentication system because I know how auth works. I will vibe code like a database harness because I know how those things work, right? But I'm not gonna vibe code like a game engine because the minute something goes wrong, and I don't know how game engines work, I have no idea how to fix it. Similarly, to the point of reading the code.

• 57:25Speaker 02

  For personal experience.

• 57:28Speaker 01

  Been there, done that. Not fun.

• 57:30Speaker 02

  We made a second level editor.

• 57:32Speaker 01

  Right. I vibe coded a level editor and it was not good. Also, like vibe coding meant, like, if you're gonna vibe code, vibe code single systems where the trust level is the same in that system. The minute you connect two systems of different trust levels, you, the architect, need to be aware of the contract between the two of them. If you let the AI solve that for you, you're gonna lose control of A, like, what the total system does, but also like who's responsible for what. And that's how security stuff happens a lot of the time. It's not so much the code is vulnerable, it's like the architecture is bad, which, you know, AI is not very good at.

• 58:06Speaker 02

  Right. The AI fixes it by saying, sure, we can just open up this one, this one route that can solve the problem. And you're like, no, that route needs to be behind auth.

• 58:15Speaker 01

  Right, exactly. That route is not supposed to be touchable and now it is.

• 58:18Speaker 02

  That's actually the problem. And like, it solved the thing you asked it for, which was, hey, I wanna, on local hosts, I'd really like to be able to send requests in dev and not log in. And it says?

• 58:28Speaker 01

  Right, right, right. And it's like, okay, cool. So now we're gonna set up a reverse proxy and now everyone can touch local hosts. And you're like, that's, okay, nope, not great.

• 58:35Speaker 02

  Oh, yes, so that's.

• 58:36Speaker 00

  I actually just got done doing that exact thing, DJ. You know what I really need for local host integration testing? I need to be able to spoof logins. And I was like, brother, I.

• 58:45Speaker 02

  Guys, I really need to be able to spoof logins.

• 58:48Speaker 00

  Great! It did, it went great.

• 58:52Speaker 02

  Oh, man. There you go, that's some practical advice.

• 58:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's practical advice right there. Anyways, there you go. I think those are pretty good practical advices. Uh, let me just hold on, let me just think about something. I, I will say that my big practical advice before TJ says anything, which he looks, oh, actually frozen. He looks like, it does an actual movie at this point.

• 59:13Speaker 03

  I thought he was frozen, but I saw a little jiggle.

• 59:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, I saw that.

• 59:16Speaker 03

  Oh, he blinked.

• 59:16Speaker 00

  Blink right there, I know, he's blinking.

• 59:17Speaker 02

  Oh, there he is.

• 59:18Speaker 00

  Oh, that smile's changing too. Uh, but, I will say that my practical advice is that it's really good to get hard technical skills. Just go and learn because it's gonna save so many, like, just bacons of your life. Now, is security a solved problem? No. Obviously, me personally, I actually introduced a bug that could have destroyed a very valuable Fortune 100 company. But I didn't, uh, you know, like, that's just happened, that's just part of life. And if I can do that...

• 59:47Speaker 03

  That's just the way it is.

• 59:48Speaker 00

  If I can do that, and somehow every project also has accidentally done that on GitHub, do you wanna bet what the statistical machines are gonna do to your project? Probably that as well. So, you know, maybe take a moment and get some good skills before you go off and just destroy the world with your great ideas.

• 1:00:04Speaker 02

  And when he says "good skills," he doesn't mean download them from MPX. He's saying, "Go and actually get them yourself in your own brain."

• 1:00:11Speaker 03

  We don't need those anymore, okay?

• 1:00:13Speaker 00

  I'm talking about, I'm talking about wet skills. Is that what we're gonna start calling them, wet skills?

• 1:00:17Speaker 03

  Ooh.

• 1:00:19Speaker 00

  Uh-oh.

• 1:00:19Speaker 03

  That Montana internet.

• 1:00:21Speaker 02

  I'll close the stand-up for us here.

• 1:00:22Speaker 03

  The Montana internet.

• 1:00:23Speaker 00

  Hey guys, if you liked this episode, you can watch the rest of it on, uh, Spotify, and don't forget to like and subscribe! Woo! See you later!