DHH Omarchy Quattro Announcement

DHH joins The Standup to talk about Omarchy Quattro, the new $8M Omarchy Foundation, and why he thinks 2026 is finally the year of the Linux desktop. Plus, AI agents, Linux security, developer burnout, Mac vs. Linux, and what building software looks like in the age of AI.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  stingers on your bros like that, man.

• 0:01Speaker 01

  I was like, we know you're the Primogen, bro.

• 0:06Speaker 02

  I just want you guys to know. With, okay, buddy.

• 0:10Speaker 00

  He starts every company meeting with, we have to all say hello, the Primogen. It's crazy.

• 0:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 0:22Speaker 02

  Uh, anyways, I'm sorry.

• 0:23Speaker 03

  You might get a code of conduct, uh, flag here. You better be careful.

• 0:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, the good news is I also wrote the code of conduct, so I have stated that this is okay behavior.

• 0:33Speaker 00

  It's actually the first commandment of the code of conduct is we all must refer to him as.

• 0:39Speaker 02

  Yes. Yes. This is true. This is what I have. This is what I've demanded of them is that I, if they say, hey, Prime, I say, excuse me, definite article, please.

• 0:51Speaker 00

  It's like how you have to call doctors, doctor. You have to call the Primogen, the Primogen. You're like, he earned it, you know?

• 0:57Speaker 03

  You gotta come up with your own character on the keyboard, like Prince, like just a simple, a prime simple.

• 1:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, that's, that's, that's a tough one because, you know.

• 1:06Speaker 01

  Well, he has it.

• 1:08Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Prince, uh, his own symbol, he was trying to push on to typewriter makers that like the official keyboard shouldn't include a Prince symbol is amazing.

• 1:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21Speaker 03

  Confidence.

• 1:22Speaker 00

  Hey, Windows did it with Copilot, so.

• 1:25Speaker 02

  True.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  I won't buy one.

• 1:28Speaker 03

  And Dell.

• 1:30Speaker 03

  Pilot key, it's an Omarchy menu key. It's very important.

• 1:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, Dell, I mean Dell has, I am looking at mine right now. Dell, I have an Omarchy key. I'm not sure what you're talking about, TJ. What's this?

• 1:40Speaker 03

  Now, right?

• 1:41Speaker 02

  Yeah. What's this? What's this Copilot again? Is Copilot the down detector service?

• 1:47Speaker 00

  Hmm. Yes, it is.

• 1:49Speaker 03

  Okay. Prime, but it's going to be generally distributed soon enough.

• 1:54Speaker 00

  Oh, that's what I like to hear.

• 1:57Speaker 02

  Well, so obviously, can I, can I do an intro today?

• 2:01Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, if you want to.

• 2:03Speaker 02

  I, I mean, I would, I would prefer to do, to do one if that's, if that's okay, uh, with you.

• 2:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, go for it.

• 2:10Speaker 02

  But we do have some things we want to kind of, you know, we kind of want to talk about today. I don't know if you guys know this, but we have a special guest on today. Legendary. I call everyone legendary. I'm trying to think of something.

• 2:24Speaker 00

  I thought, Prime, I thought you were going to give us the, the mix up and go legendary snack consumer, trash dev.

• 2:32Speaker 01

  It's true. I am snacking.

• 2:34Speaker 02

  Um, okay, anyway, so here's the deal. Today we have on legendary, uh, pusher of operating systems, specifically making the year of Linux 2026 actually happening, DHH. We have also with us trash dev, amazing snack connoisseur and teach. And today we are going to be talking something extremely special. I don't know if you, if everybody knows this, but it turns out that we have this right here. We have some Omarchy news coming in. So I'm looking right here at the board, at the Kanban board. What are we doing today on the standup? We have to talk about Omarchy.

• 3:15Speaker 02

  And I am saying that correct, by the way. And so with DHH on, we figured that maybe he could do a little bit of setting the stage on why we're talking about Omarchy specifically, because that kind of seems silly. It's been, it's been out for so long at this point. I still have my transitions on. It's, we've, we've had, it's been out for so long. Why, uh, why are we talking about it?

• 3:34Speaker 03

  Well, we're going to talk about Omarchy because it was basically rewritten from scratch and the latest version, Omarchy Quattro, which is the first version that's gotten its own moniker, just dropped on Friday and is ushering in nothing less than the future of the personal computer. We are making computers malleable, personable, changeable, and it's all thanks to agents solving the biggest problem we've had in Linux that they're a pain in the ass to set up. They're a pain in the ass to configure. They're a pain in the ass to diagnose, yet thanks to the wonder of magical premium tokens, that is no longer true.

• 4:16Speaker 03

  We have AI to do everything for us. And not only is Omarchy Quattro virtually fully AI developed, I spent about three months together with Ryan Hughes and others prompting our way to this incredible distribution that we have today. And then the experience of actually using it, once you set up your default agent is just nuts. You can make anything happen. We've rewritten the whole thing in quick shell. We've dumped about 17 different dependencies. We've shrunk the ISO by 30%. We've increased the install time by like 40%. It now is up and running on a fast computer in about 45 seconds. It was already.

• 5:00Speaker 00

  I know, I lost my world record.

• 5:02Speaker 02

  I know. You had, you had Omarchy three world record, which was, oh, it might've even been Omarchy two world record. It was very fast.

• 5:08Speaker 00

  True.

• 5:10Speaker 00

  Hey, Prime, don't forget, strong plannings later.

• 5:24Speaker 02

  No.

• 5:27Speaker 02

  I can't do this.

• 5:39Speaker 04

  Product manager here. We've decided to put you on call.

• 5:48Speaker 02

  I can't, I can't do, I can't do on call.

• 5:52Speaker 00

  You're on call?

• 5:55Speaker 02

  Lucky. What are you saying?

• 5:58Speaker 00

  With Sentry, on call is so much fun. It has all of our errors, logs, spans, metrics, replays, and even releases in one spot. It has all the context we need to solve any bug.

• 6:11Speaker 02

  Even if half the time Sentry beats me to the fix anyway.

• 6:15Speaker 00

  Just because software development's torture doesn't mean on call has to be.

• 6:19Speaker 04

  Wow, that's amazing. Does Sentry also attend my meetings?

• 6:22Speaker 00

  Oh, that's the best part. No.

• 6:25Speaker 05

  Sentry can actually make on call fun, but it can make it less scary. Everything you need to fix real issues in one place.

• 6:32Speaker 00

  Buckaroo, got that 6pm postmortem planning, don't forget.

• 6:39Speaker 03

  It was already ridiculously fast, but we're making it ridiculously or fast.

• 6:46Speaker 03

  Because we've just optimized everything and it's just, it's tighter, it's better, and it's completely malleable. We now have a plugin repository. There's a community led version on omachiplugins.com that launched six days ago and it almost has a thousand plugins. Now we're on chart at least to get a thousand plugins within the first week. People have made everything happen. There's a million games. There's AirPods controls. There is Flight Raider thingies. There is just all sorts of, there's even a plugin for, uh, finding Backstreet Girlfriend. I just saw that. Um.

• 7:21Speaker 02

  Whoa, that's, hey, that's a good plugin. Okay.

• 7:24Speaker 00

  It just crashes or what?

• 7:27Speaker 02

  It turns off, it turns off Arch. It installs Windows and you have to go out.

• 7:31Speaker 03

  But, but, but as amazing as all this is, this launch is just nuts. We're running at like, uh, 5,000 ISO downloads a day right now. Um, even crazier, just dropped, I don't know if you caught this Prime, because you've been on your, uh, you've been on your stream, but literally, uh, uh, an hour ago, just dropped a huge announcement that, um, I'm incorporating the Omicon Foundation with $8 million in pledged funding from, um, just like a few people you might have heard of. Maybe you've heard of Michael Dell. Maybe you've heard of, uh, Toby Lutka. Maybe you've heard of, uh, Patrick Collison or Matthew Prince or Brendan Ireem or Jason Fried or Jack Dorsey. Um,

• 8:14Speaker 03

  a few of the people we've signed on for this insane mission to actually make Linux on the desktop 2026 happen and beyond. I mean, this is also an insane raise to do for this kind of mission. Initially, I just asked, floated the idea with Toby on Sunday for this foundation. I like, do you know what? I should just, I put a million dollars into this and immediately he replies, I'll match. And I go like, what do you, what do you mean? You don't have to think about it. Um, you'll, you'll just match a million dollars? And then I went like, well, maybe there are other people who would also just go like, yeah, I'll give you a million dollars to go make Linux totally awesome. And so we just rest that, we just announced that. And then we also announced that we are straight away

• 8:57Speaker 03

  spending a bunch of that money on Backstreet, becoming the exclusive sponsor for him since that he does not have to think about any commercial development for the next three years plus a two-year option for potentially for the next five years. We just set with Backstreet doing Hyperland development and posting, uh, YFUs on, on X. So that, and then there's a bunch more announcements in the pipeline. I mean, um, I'm running this thing as the executive, uh, director, but I mean, I'm putting my money in because I don't need the money. So all of the money is going to go towards developers who are integral to the development of Omarchy and the subsystems and everything else that we have to uh, promotion of the whole thing, to the infrastructure and.

• 9:42Speaker 03

  This is gonna be amazing. So, uh, yeah, that's my, uh, out of breath spiel here for just a few crazy things that's happened this week.

• 9:49Speaker 02

  I have to say wow. I'm gonna first go about it was such a big announcement that TJ's camera turned off and he had to leave Riverside there for a moment.

• 9:56Speaker 00

  I, I was trying to lift up my laptop to show the XPS and say, thank you, Mr. Dell. And then I, while I did that, I accidentally unplugged my, the thing that connects my camera. So I was on, that's on me. That wasn't a Linux problem. I just literally physically unplugged it. Okay. I'm on Omarchy Quattro. It plugged back in and worked just fine. Take that.

• 10:16Speaker 03

  Let me, let me just mention one more thing to the announcement because this is, the important thing is here is Linux is fucking happening. We are going to make this happen. I've not been this determined about almost anything else in my goddamn life about making Linux happen. And this couldn't have happened if we were still stuck with the hardware we had three, four years ago. What's making it happen now is that we finally have MacBook level quality competitive hardware. And two reasons for that. One, Intel, Pantholake, just absolutely mind-blowingly efficient and, um, performant CPU and, and Dell revamping that XPS lineup.

• 10:58Speaker 03

  And for the first time in my career, giving me a laptop I would pick over any other. I'm not just saying that because Michael Dell just gave me a million dollars, although I would have said it now if I hadn't said it already. I've already said it.

• 11:10Speaker 02

  Fair, fair.

• 11:12Speaker 03

  I've been picking the XPS for a long time because it simply is my, uh, favorite computer. So I, I feel good about that. It's in that order. Otherwise you're like, you're fucking chill. But, um, now it is my professional duty to talk nicely about Dell. So I'm very happy that that lined up with the fact I just really like what not only Dell is doing, what Intel's been doing. Also AMD, by the way, even though they're a little bit behind on efficiency, they are also putting out some absolutely cracking products. I know I'm, uh, now have to hog Dell all the time, but, um, the nice people from AMD also just sent me this, uh, AMD three nine, three nine five plus laptop from HP, which is the same chip that's in the framework, uh, desktop.

• 11:55Speaker 03

  Absolute freaking beast. So if you don't need the, uh, battery life that you get out of the XPS, then that's a wonderful option too. So all the pieces, all the pieces are coming together at the same time. Did you know we're even getting fucking Fortnite by the end of the year? I finally annoyed Tim Sweeney enough.

• 12:14Speaker 02

  That's actually crazy. That's actually crazy.

• 12:16Speaker 00

  X.com.

• 12:18Speaker 03

  After two years of hacking him on Twitter, like at regular intervals. I mean, I'm not gonna take credit for the whole thing. Maybe Valve also deserves a little bit because like Steambox and Steam Deck and whatever is sending.

• 12:29Speaker 02

  The, the millions of dollars go into Proton and all that. Yes. They also deserve just maybe a touch.

• 12:34Speaker 03

  Maybe just a touch. I mean, again, look at how many different factors are coming together and conspiring this year. 2026 is when it all happens.

• 12:45Speaker 00

  And it's the year of the Linux laptop even, not even the year of the Linux desktop.

• 12:50Speaker 03

  Yes. That is actually key because when we talk about Linux on the desktop, I mean, nobody buys desktops anymore. I mean, I'm talking broadly here. If you look at Apple's sales, like it's all MacBooks. The MacBook was really the number one target. And until you had something that was competitive with it, it was gonna be uphill to sell it, right? Because you were gonna ask people to do compromise. You're gonna either tell them that, well, the battery life isn't great, but you should use Linux anyway, which by the way, great argument. I've been making that argument for two years. I totally think, uh, Linux was worth the drop in battery life. But now you don't even have to make that argument. Did you see the Dell XPS 13 or 14 with the LCD display went 42 hours in a battery life test?

• 13:33Speaker 03

  I'm like, what do you mean 42 hours? It's just absolutely nuts.

• 13:37Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, I, to, to, to throw this on there, I have the slightly older Dell XPS, the one that we got at Omicon. And, uh, that one, I've been able to, I went on a flight to California, to Long Beach just a little bit ago. And during that flight from Rapid City to Denver, I programmed and did stuff. And then from, uh, Denver to Long Beach, I programmed and did stuff. I shut my laptop and then hung out on the beach. And then at the end of the week, I opened up my laptop, still had half battery left. And this was, this is just running Omarchy. Like there's nothing going on, there's nothing fancy going on here. This just never has happened in my life of, so the fun, fun side story. When I started using Linux on my laptop was in 2016.

• 14:18Speaker 02

  And in 2016, I had 45 minutes of battery life. I couldn't make it through one meeting at Netflix every single time. It was this game where I could not open it. I had to keep it turned off until like midway into the meeting. So I could open it and then do some sort of presentation. I had to come up with reasons to stall me presenting so it wouldn't die during the presentation.

• 14:37Speaker 00

  Fans kick on probably too, Prime. And it's like, I can't hear you. I can't hear the fans.

• 14:43Speaker 02

  And just like, okay.

• 14:43Speaker 01

  Are you, are you prompting too? Is it still lasting a long time even with like running like LLMs?

• 14:51Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 14:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, to, to Prime.

• 14:54Speaker 02

  Well, I, I, I don't, typically all my LLM stuff, if I'm doing anything, runs in the cloud. I don't use, uh, I almost never use local LLM stuff anymore. But yes, on that flight, I happened to be like, hey, explain to me stuff about Apollo. And I started playing with Apollo and I just kept on playing with it a whole bunch. So, yeah.

• 15:13Speaker 03

  This, by the way, is also key. We're talking about battery life. We're talking about all sorts of things come together. The agent thing is really the thing that completely rewrite the game. Because on battery, it was a game of catch up, right? Like we had to get to the MacBook level. And then that was sort of level, maybe we were a little bit ahead, whatever. They still make great chips. The M chips are awesome. Um, so it's not like, all right, we just trounce them. But when it comes to agents working on your desktop and turning it into your personal favorite computer, Apple's nowhere. The macOS operating system is complete trash when it comes to having your dream computer

• 15:57Speaker 03

  produced by agents on your behalf, because you can't change anything of the core of how the OS works, because that's Apple's domain. I saw a fun tweet the other day where it flagged Codex app as being malware and track it, drag it. This whole idea that I own a computer and for me to get software on there in a reasonable way, that producer first has to go beg Apple. Can I please make software and get that sign? It's just mind-blowingly insane. We do not have to live like this. With agents, we're getting access to the malleable computer. This dream that computers makers and programmers have had since the fucking dawn of time here.

• 16:38Speaker 03

  And Mac doesn't have an answer. There is no answer. Yeah, you make some little apps within the confines of what Apple allows you to do. But who wants to live like that? You wanna live with freedom. And.

• 16:52Speaker 02

  Can I just jump in here for a second? It's not just Apple that's bad. It's also just like so much of the programs, they don't even have a way for you to edit the config other than launching the program and click like, the, the culture of developing an app is also bad. So it's not just, you know, culture is downstream of the creator, but the creator is bad and the culture is bad. And so it's just like, both of them make it impossible to use. Like I hate setting up an Apple. Cause I know I have hours of pushing menu buttons. I don't wanna push menu buttons ever. I wanna have one, I wanna download JSON and put it right into the system.

• 17:30Speaker 03

  This is so crazy. I had an experiment or experience maybe four months ago. I was going to some place. I thought I had a PC that I was gonna install Omarchy on. And like I hadn't been there for a while. So what I had instead was a fucking Mac Mini. So I was stuck for three days and I did not have a, a PC because I'd left the laptop at home. So I just had that fucking Mac Mini. And I was like, do you know what? Let me just give it a go. It can't be that bad. And I tried to set it up like I would want my ideal computer to do. And first of all, it took goddamn forever. But exactly as you say, the entire operating system is just not built for agents. It's not built for accessibility of the tooling we wanna use. Raycast, great example. So Raycast, great launcher. Lots of people love it, right?

• 18:14Speaker 03

  The only way you can get your config in and out of that is exactly as you say, you gotta go to a menu, you gotta scroll down. There's a little export config and then you get this config and then to get it in there, you gotta go back into the import config. Like with your little mouse, like a fucking caveman. It is absolutely mind-blowing how bad it is. And the only reason it's not like shoot yourself bad now is because Homebrew, Homebrew has done amazing things for the Mac, but it's still limited in what it can do. Like you can't set hotkeys. There's none of the, uh, macOS hotkeys edible programmatically.

• 18:54Speaker 03

  The only way to set up, um, your workspace hotkeys, by the way, is going to a menu and manually click from row to row like a fucking pecking bird. It is just absurd. And it becomes trivially absurd in this age of, age of agents where they could just do it for you. You can't check in your config. You can't do anything. It is actually mind-blowing now, having lived on Linux for two and a half years and have built Omarchy that like people just accept that this is how they live. Now, I understand that in the past, even quite recent past, you just went like, okay, yeah, that totally blows. But like I get better battery life or I don't know, build quality or I get something else. That's fair.

• 19:37Speaker 03

  But this is why it's a complete game changer now. Now that we've leveled out those things, thanks to Intel, thanks to Dell, thanks to other makers who've finally caught up and are competitive on the hardware side, we can finally press those advantages that Linux just has that beats the Mac bloody. And then the agents enter the picture and you can make anything happen. You can make your computer do anything. It is just unbelievable that all the stars should line up in a perfect constellation for this moment right now. And then we raised fucking eight million dollars for the Omicon Foundation. We're going all in with Omarchy. Oh my God.

• 20:13Speaker 02

  And you got, and you got Vaxxery. I mean, you got Vaxxery going full time, like just doing what Vaxxery does best. Like that is, that's some real momentum.

• 20:20Speaker 03

  So this is just the deal that got signed before the announcement. Oh my God, there's shit coming. You have no idea. So much shit coming. The pipeline, man. It is bulging with amazing stuff that's gonna come out of this.

• 20:33Speaker 01

  So I have a question. So the eight million dollars you just got, how is that being used? And I don't know if you can say this, how is this being used to making like Linux the desktop or age of Linux being the desktop thing? How's that? Where's that money going? Or what's your vision with it?

• 20:49Speaker 03

  Three main things. A, fund the developers who create the key subsystems for Omarchy. People like Backstreet. So doing deals like that such that developers like Backstreet don't have to think about money. They could just like awesome Hyperlane, which by the way, even though we're now the exclusive sponsor, Hyperlane is still open source, free for everyone. Any other distro could put it in. It's not like, oh, my God, now it's off the market. This isn't proprietary software, bro. This is all MIT licensed stuff. You go to the Omarchy repo, you can fucking take anything and build it into your Nick's dream or something, if that's what floats your boat. So we're going to take a bunch of money and we're going to put it towards that. That's the bulk of it. The bulk of it is going to go towards funding of that.

• 21:31Speaker 03

  Now, I mean, I raised eight million dollars, like fucking just in the last few days, just what? Um, I'm going to make it last, right? So it's not like, uh, by, by next Tuesday, we've blown it all on hookers and coke here, right? Like, it's gotta last. In my head, we're spending this money over the next five years. Like that's, I got a communist five year plan here going. So there's five years and we're going to spend.

• 21:55Speaker 00

  It'll be a great leap forward. Thinking Michael Scott right now.

• 21:59Speaker 03

  Dude, don't go there. Too soon, too soon.

• 22:02Speaker 02

  Too soon for a great leap forward or Michael Scott? Which one are we talking about?

• 22:06Speaker 03

  Well, yeah. Too soon by Michael Scott.

• 22:10Speaker 00

  Um, yeah, too soon.

• 22:11Speaker 03

  So it's going to go towards that. Then it's going to go through all the infrastructure required to build a top tier Linux distribution. Uh, package servers and mirrors, agent runners, um, QA servers. All the infrastructure it takes to operate a top tier Linux distribution. We're going to build it. We're going to run it ourselves and we're going to take over more and more and more of it. Until at some point, we'll see how far it goes. I mean, my delusions of grandeur going into the sky. So, um, getting to eventually core levels of Linux distribution. That's the, that's the plan. And then finally, we're going to do something that I know nerds are goddamn allergic to. We're going to market.

• 22:53Speaker 03

  We're going to tell people that Omarchy is the greatest fucking thing ever to.

• 22:58Speaker 02

  Let's go.

• 22:59Speaker 03

  Encounter their computer. We're going to spend money on, um, merchandise. We're going to spend money on, on events. We're going to spend money on activities that make people aware that Linux is now fantastic. And that the best version of Linux for the age of agents is Omarchy. So part of this is also like both, it's both extremely ambitious in what we're trying to do, yet also kind of narrow, right? Because I'm not giving up on the keyboard. We're going to be keyboard first. I'm not going to go like, oh, what does it take to get grandma to use this machine? Can we make a watered down version of Ubuntu? So that we can distribute a T-MO version of Windows?

• 23:44Speaker 03

  Fuck that. No, no, no. The mission remains. I'm building Omarchy to be the perfect computer for me. And then I'm giving you all the tools so that you can start from a system that's already amazing and then to make the perfect computer for you, right? So, um, what was the question? Oh, how are we going to spend the money? Um, those are the three main pillars, right? Fund the developers, uh, fund the infrastructure, fund the excitement.

• 24:13Speaker 02

  Can I, okay, I have a question, a very important question, especially in, in our day and age, the, I'd say the biggest risk factor to any of these type of projects right now is supply chain attacks. So I think we see them nonstop. Rust is under a current one right now with ArrayRef, I think it was, or whatever it was. Every single one of these is effectively a worm, ready to be wormed on everybody's machine. And being a part of a distribution, you download stuff and it really does get executed and people really will take all of your stuff and spread even more worming. So with that in mind, what is Omarchy's plan to be different? Because A U R, it's art, it's like, I, I've been scared to update my system lately because I know A U R has been also having a bunch of problems.

• 24:55Speaker 02

  And so it's like, how am I going to have a system that I can trust? And so how does Omarchy make a universe that I can trust? I don't want one more NPM. What's the answer?

• 25:08Speaker 03

  Oh, I'll tell you, it's real simple. We're going to own the fucking universe. The entire Omarchy installation and distribution is going to be sovereign. Now, we're leaning at the moment on the A U R for a handful of optional installations. There's nothing on Omarchy itself that comes from the A U R. Everything is compiled on our built machines and our built servers and then go into our package repository. Like, I totally get, Omarchy's only been around for a year. So if you are basing your current opinion on what Omarchy is on that first version that shipped as a Git checkout in your home directory and ran straight off the A U R, you are about 17 light years out of date with where we are today. We run our own build servers. We run our own package repository.

• 25:53Speaker 03

  We run our own mirrors. All of it lives behind Cloudflare. This is why we don't have to do vintage stuff like torrents and mirrors and shit. We just use modern tools like CDNs to ensure that Omarchy.

• 26:06Speaker 02

  I've heard of those.

• 26:07Speaker 03

  To download anywhere.

• 26:09Speaker 02

  Heard of those, okay.

• 26:10Speaker 03

  Um, we're going to get rid of the A U R entirely for anything Omarchy presents for you as an option. I mean, we're almost already there. There's a handful of things left and they're almost all from trusted vendors. It was like, oh, you can install Brave, the browser. We get that from the A U R. We don't have to. Everything that I've been packaging recently, like T3 code, right? I just packaged that for Theo yesterday. And I didn't go to the A U R. I did the original package. Like, I'll go to where T3 is distributed. I'll get it from that. I will package it up. I will host it. I will control the updates just that I can ensure that it's happening in a secure way. So the A U R is going to basically be reduced to an optional thing that people can use if they choose to,

• 26:55Speaker 03

  but we're going to keep de-emphasizing it because we're going to keep getting more and more and more coverage such that there's less and less reason for you to get to the A U R. Now, I actually think the A U R is amazing. I'm not saying this is slack on the A U R in any way, shape or form. I do think that it is from a vintage of the internet where we were more hopeful and happy people who can trust each other slightly more. But there's 117,000 packages in the A U R. We're not hosting that tomorrow, right? But as with everything, it's a power law. If you look at the top, whatever, 2% of packages, 1% of packages on the A U R is probably 80% of the downloads, right? So we just have to cherry pick off that 1% and then we will shrink the scope that is available for these kinds of attacks.

• 27:38Speaker 03

  And then we will build out our own repository. We'll build our own build server. We'll build out everything. I mean, we're going to run our fucking fork at the kernel for the things that we need. We already do. So the reason in part that your Dell XPS laptop runs so well on Omarchy is that we run a fork version of the kernel that has patches for that. This is what Spencer Bull, who's by the way, on the newly announced Omachi Core team. He's a, um, he's, he's a distinguished engineer, I believe it is, at Dell, who's been on the Omachi train almost since day one. He was, he spoke at Omicon, all in, amazing research. He's been doing the liaison for Intel patches that we needed for the XPS

• 28:21Speaker 03

  to run at its absolute peak efficiency to go into our fork at the kernel. We're going to do that for the whole thing. Um, I'm talking to everyone right now, including Linux kernel developers to come help us out, to secure things. Um, one of the next steps we've got to do is this amazing plugin repository, right? Like, that's the same problem as the A U R. If you download a code from the internet, you run it, it's code from the internet. It could do stuff to your computer. We're going to fix it. We're going to fix everything. Um, the plugins are going to get hosted on our setup. They're going to run through our agent powered security vetting, which by the way, all of this security drama right now, a lot of it is agent accelerated, right? Like people finding exploits with agents. Yeah. You know what?

• 29:04Speaker 03

  That also means these agents are incredible defenders. And that defense really goes in, in, in depth. So if we arm our side with the best, smartest, latest agents, and we basically have unlimited token budgets. Um, note on that announcement coming later for, for endless tokens for Omachi, then we will be able to apply all the best intelligence from this new age towards securing Omarchy to the maximum degree possible. Now, we're going to be liable to all the same things everyone is liable to. We're going to be liable to they find it in the throat, they exploit in the kernel and whatever. But, but because we are a rolling distro off arch with a one month lag

• 29:47Speaker 03

  such that we don't screw people's installations in the middle of the night on a fucking Tuesday. That's how we started. I woke up with Ryan Hughes at 3:00 AM, more than one, because some package got pushed out and people updated their installation and bam, it was broken. We ended all of that nonsense by just being one month behind on default. But then as soon as there's anything, a CVE or whatever, we can just update right there. We can ship the latest version, the latest patches, the latest everything, literally next moment. We can have agent monitoring all of it, monitoring the CVEs, opening the PRs, pinging people. We can afford to have, uh, on-call staff. We fucking raised eight million dollars. There's nothing we can't do.

• 30:29Speaker 02

  You can't, um, you can't buy cursor with that kind of money. Uh, so you can't do that. Just throwing that out there. It's going to take a little bit more than eight million, but eight million is insane.

• 30:39Speaker 00

  It was $20 a month, Brian.

• 30:40Speaker 02

  I, I do, I think it's very cheap comparatively. But I do think there's something to be said about this, this insane world that we live in. Um, I forgot who, I think it was Sam Lambert of Planet Scale said, like, they run stuff with their databases and they have all this uptime and all this performance. And they're a team of 30 engineers or some small, single, double digit engineers.

• 31:03Speaker 00

  More than that now, but yeah.

• 31:04Speaker 02

  And I forget the exact number. But Amazon and their one database has a thousand effective people working on this, their database offering. And you just have to think the same thing with Windows or with Mac. Like, how many thousands of engineers, product developers, all these people?

• 31:22Speaker 02

  Putting all this effort into an operating system and then you have Vaxry, just like one dude who's making an experience that's just dramatically better. Like, how does this even ha- how are we even in this world in which one person is defeating a thousand? This can't, like, something has to be fundamentally broken. And it's not just the power of AI, because he's been doing this before the power of AI came out. So it's something, it's something more than just that. And so that's why I'm very excited about Omarchy, because I want you guys to somehow capture the eight people who can defeat a trillion-dollar organization, and that's all you need.

• 31:56Speaker 03

  We're doing it. We're absolutely doing it. And it's exactly as you say, all the great leaps forward, I'm not quoting fucking Mao here.

• 32:05Speaker 02

  I was like, whoa, we're back here again, aren't we, DHH? That was fast.

• 32:09Speaker 03

  Hold on, hold on.

• 32:10Speaker 02

  For most independents.

• 32:11Speaker 03

  All the great leaps forward, they did not come out of a goddamn committee. They did not come out of a thousand people replicating your chart. They came out of cracked Polish Linux kids like Vaxry, who in their goddamn bedroom at, I don't know, when did he start, Hyperland, three years ago, so he was, uh, 19, 18, just go like, hey, you know what? I fucking know better. Like, these Mac people have been working on macOS and have $3 trillion in market cap behind them, I can beat them. And then he fucking does, right? Like, world is moved forward by delusional, unreasonable people who with enough determination become right. That's the group I'm tapping into. Um, that's what we're doing.

• 32:56Speaker 01

  Can I ask another real question?

• 32:58Speaker 02

  Of course, Trash.

• 33:00Speaker 01

  So, you guys have been prompting this new version, Quattro. Like, what's the, like, what's the QA process here? Like, obviously, you're dogfeeding your own OS, but do you have, like, a big group of, like, alpha users? Do you have a QA department? Like, what's that look like? Like, how can we trust you that this is actually not slop, right?

• 33:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, so the first is, you have a goddamn obsessed maniac, me, who has, at this point, I mean, 17 laptops and 400 PCs connected to everything. Um, I have installed Omarchy Quattro, and I kid you not, probably about 500 times, maybe more. Because just running through the installation, making sure everything is tight, making sure it all works on all these different permutations, that's just me. Like, that's the first layer of defense here. I am not going to ship anything unless it is goddamn delicious and awesome and works. The second tier of, of defense here is, we have an incredible community already. I think we got, like, 40,000 people on the Discord now or something like that. Um, we have multiple channels.

• 34:03Speaker 03

  So we have the dev channel, that's people running straight off Git, um, praise be those brave souls. Then we have the, um, edge channel, which gets the latest packages, and that system has gotten really nice. One of the key, by the way, just quick aside, when I started Omarchy, it was a Git checkout in your home directory, right? That works great for me. A little brittle if the user starts meddling, and why wouldn't they? It's in their goddamn home directory, right? So we had problems at times with overwriting things, and we were sharing configs, and it was a little delicate, let's just say that, right? Now we've switched to a completely package-driven system. Omarchy is a system package that installed straight into all the other system packages,

• 34:47Speaker 03

  and therefore its own configuration files and so on, they're not in user space. We're giving you access to Omarchy, and you can extend it, but we're not stepping on each other's toes anymore. That erases, like, 70% of the bug reports that we had for former versions of Quattro, just, or for Omarchy, just separating those two things. But then we have the channel system. So we have the edge, which is sort of, people who want to live on the edge, they get the latest packages, and they get, I think we're pushing edge packages every six hours by default. Sometimes I push it more often when I'm testing things. But otherwise, you get whatever Git is, six hours behind. It's great if you want to run on the latest, there was actually a little issue, uh, this morning on some of this, I fixed that, that's what edge is for. Then we have RC.

• 35:31Speaker 03

  So when we get closer to a new release, I go through a release candidate process where we push it out to RC, and like, that has a whole dedicated, uh, group on Discord, like Omarchy-Release Candidate, and we have a large number of people really stress it out, and can test it on, like, a million other machines than what I have. Like, the 17 I have does not cover the range of Linux computers available. And then, when all that is great, then we have Stable. And by the way, a reminder, Stable is by default one month lagging the latest Arch packages. And we do that so that, like, you don't get that LemonEye update in the middle of the night because someone just pushed something out, and we got bitten by that in the early days of Omachi as well.

• 36:11Speaker 03

  So we really just, like, speedrun this process of what does it take to build a resilient yet up-to-date system? It's very easy to build a resilient system if you use packages that are four years old. That's a bunto.

• 36:26Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 36:27Speaker 03

  So if you want that, that's available, great, people have solved that problem for people who want that. That's not what Omachi is. I want the fucking latest version of Neovim right when it drops. I want the latest version of, uh, Codex. I want the latest version of my key developing tools, especially now, when, like, the AI is updating 17 times a day. I mean, I think that, like, bracket, it literally was 17 times on a given day that OpenCode updated, right? I want that right now! Which, by the way, also, super cool. So, we have all this set up for all these packages, right? Like, that's using Pacman, we have our own mirrors, we have our own package repository, but it's still Pacman that does it, and like, you don't want to churn through that all the time. So you have your system packages, that's Omachi itself and all the other core util,

• 37:11Speaker 03

  like, uh, Qt and core library, Hyperland itself, and QuickTal, lives over here in system packages. Then, you have your tools like OpenCode that change 17 times a day. It can't live over here. If you shove OpenCode into your repository that also keeps your system packages, you now have to update all your system packages when you update OpenCode. No, no, brittle, no good. So we have a two-tier system that runs at separate speed. Pacman is running system packages at a reasonable pace, you got edge, you got RC, you got Stable. Okay. Then, we have Mies, and Mies is goddamn amazing.

• 37:49Speaker 03

  Mies allows you to install any of the tooling you need for Ruby, Go, Python, all domain development environments, run them in different versions for different projects, and then it allows us to install all the high churn developer tools, like Codex, like Claude, like OpenCode, like, um, the Hey CLI, the Basecamp CLI, all of these things can run on an update chain that is super fast and low criticality and low, uh, what, impact area, right? Something goes wrong on Mies with it, like, alright, so Codex has an issue, they'll pick up, or push out something quickly, it doesn't fuck up your system. And then finally, I mean, there's a lot here, we're really in depth with it. Finally, we have a snapshot system.

• 38:34Speaker 03

  Whenever you go to update Omarchy, we take a snapshot, we're using a BTRFS as our default file system, so we can make cheap snapshots. We make a snapshot before you update. Then when you update, let's just say something crazy happened, you're unstable, we blew our minds and it messed up, right? Your computer's fucked, your Arch is now broken, nothing works. What do you do? No biggie, you just reboot, you get a list of your own, your earliest snapshots, you pick the one from one back, you go into that and you live happily ever after. It is, at this point, quite difficult to brick a new installation. And let's just say-

• 39:11Speaker 02

  That's really nice.

• 39:12Speaker 03

  You manage, you manage to fucking brick it. You send your agents a muck and they just rip out everything and they rewrite all your content.

• 39:20Speaker 02

  Couldn't be me.

• 39:21Speaker 03

  Totally screwed, right? Totally goddamn screwed. Here's chef's kiss. At the bottom layer of all these snapshots that happen intermittently, we keep five and so on, you just fuck it all up, right? We have factory reset now. Factory goddamn reset. You can factory reset-

• 39:39Speaker 02

  That's a revolutionary idea.

• 39:40Speaker 03

  Entire goddamn thing, to the moment you installed it, and I know it worked when you installed it, because that was off an ISO that I vetted, right? So you bring it back to ISO level, not only will that now restore your computer to its original install set, you can fucking gift it. We have full, like, Mac levels of, like, I want to hand off my computer thing. Um, I've done that on a lot of distros, I mean, I'm sure someone has done it, right? Like, that's not a standard feature that just works well out of the box with encryption, where you can trust that your data is not getting handed over to whoever you found on fucking Craigslist, who's going to take over your machine, right? You want that stuff to feel secure, and we now have factory reset built in. So there's about 17 layers of that resilience stack, and, um, we're going to keep adding

• 40:25Speaker 03

  more to it, until it's so goddamn bulletproof that you need to be a terrorist to blow it up.

• 40:33Speaker 00

  I'll say I've used Mies before and it's and it's really nice like it's a tool that actually we're using in a bunch of repos before and I like it a lot for yeah.

• 40:42Speaker 03

  Quick call out JDX who runs Mies, we're sponsoring him too.

• 40:48Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 40:50Speaker 03

  Doing all of it. We're doing all of it. Everything that sort of fits into this and whatever. I mean, Linux is I think on my installation, I think 1,087 packages. We're not doing 1,000 yet, I should say, right? By the time my budget is 800 million, we're doing fucking everyone, right? But I'm starting with eight. So with eight, we gotta, we gotta make it last a little. We can't do everything. We're gonna do the key components and it's gonna be great.

• 41:16Speaker 00

  I find Mies to be like a nice middle ground that isn't, it isn't quite like I feel like I have to have Nix and then I spend a lot of time like arguing with people on the internet about which companies are allowed to use my software. But instead I just like, I just have my team all use the same version of whatever executables we have. And then it's like pretty good for most things, you know?

• 41:37Speaker 03

  Can I say something?

• 41:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, of course.

• 41:40Speaker 02

  This is your show to say things here.

• 41:44Speaker 03

  Nix is actually part of the reason why we're doing an institution that is not just like a one off thing here. I'm sorry to say, but Linux is fucking infiltrated with goddamn maniacs and

• 42:01Speaker 03

  just clowns, just clowns who wanna control what you think and who you can associate with and whose opinions are allowed to use what software. It's goddamn insufferable and Nix is perhaps worst of all. Now, there's amazing technology in Nix, amazing technology, right? I figured some shit out here, but the goddamn cancer that is around both Nix and so many of the other institutions in the Linux world is one of the reasons we're like, we need a counterweight. We need a place over here that's not just a full of fucking goblins who are crazy. We need just some people who are like, you know

• 42:41Speaker 03

  what? We make fun computers. Do you like computers? Then come have fun with us. I don't give a flying fuck what you think about other topics or what your politics are or I don't know, whatever you support. You're welcome. You're welcome. You can come over here. If you just wanna have fun with computers and find a competent group of people who are responsible for distribution, we're here for you and you are invited. I don't, we gotta get away from this nonsense that like all this shit is teams based and it's teams based along these fault lines of culture war bullshit.

• 43:15Speaker 00

  Microsoft Teams.

• 43:17Speaker 02

  Microsoft Teams every time.

• 43:20Speaker 03

  I'm not doing goddamn land acknowledgements here. Before I talk, we're not doing code of conduct, fucking persecution shit. We're just running a Linux distribution for people who wanna have fun with computers and share that hobby with others. And that's a really broad tent. I think there's a ton of people who would look to run Linux if they felt like there was a home for them that wasn't full with crazy clowns.

• 43:49Speaker 00

  My wife would like Linux and she doesn't even know that there's people arguing about this on the internet. So.

• 43:56Speaker 03

  Bless her soul. Bless her soul. Please keep her in blissful ignorance on that point.

• 44:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm not.

• 44:04Speaker 03

  It is a serious problem, not just for normies, so to speak, but also for developers. There are plenty of people who look at the madness of what's going on in some of these Linux distributions just go like, I guess Microsoft and Windows is not so bad. And that's, that's really a missed opportunity here. We can do better. We can just collect a group of same people who wanna make good shit and then let everyone use it regardless of what they're gonna use it for. I hope you use it for nice thing. But like if I'm selling forks here, I'm not gonna try to peep in your bedroom window and see if you're gonna stab yourself in the leg with it. That's just not like we've ended

• 44:45Speaker 03

  the exchange here. I'm gonna give you a machi. Great fucking system. You make it yours. You write whatever manifestos you wanna write on it. You fucking try to take over political, whatever. Not my goddamn business.

• 45:03Speaker 02

  You know?

• 45:03Speaker 00

  It's a big tent.

• 45:04Speaker 02

  It's a crazy world we live in that, I mean, I personally feel this is a crazy world we live in that we actually have to say all these things that that has to happen because I often choose technology, you know, call me kinda crazy. I don't choose the best technology at time. Often I pick technologies because I like the person, right? Like I like Hyperland and I don't like, I don't like anime waifus on my timeline. Okay. I don't want anything remotely pornographic on my timeline. And so when I see these kinds of things, you know, like I don't follow Vaxtry for that exact reason because I don't, I just don't want, I just don't want it on there. But I love Vaxtry. If I could follow him without Vax and a waifu titty slip, then I would, I would go follow the man. But that's just like not a thing for me right now. And so it's just like, okay, hey, Vaxtry, I love you. I wanna cheer for you.

• 45:47Speaker 00

  Trash, don't do it, dude. Trash, I hate to see you typing Vaxtry right now.

• 45:53Speaker 02

  I just like him and what he's trying to do. He just wants to build something cool. I just don't understand how this is like, we just can't have this world that exists where you can be like, oh, yeah, I really like his mission statement. This is great. I really like a window manager that's easy to use. Like this is great. This is a great world. Coming from I3, which was just not as fun to use, especially now that we have Lua. Lua is so good. You can get Composer 2.5 to write you Lua and it's like pretty much spot on. Like Lua is dead simple to configure. It's so, it's so good. Gosh, I love it.

• 46:25Speaker 03

  Do you know what? I love Thriller. You know, Michael Jackson.

• 46:29Speaker 02

  Michael Jackson? Okay, good. I was about to say, we're talking about Michael Jackson, right?

• 46:34Speaker 03

  Do you know what? I can listen to that without just listening to the music. Like I don't have to do a full referee on the artist here. Like we gotta normalize that. We gotta normalize this idea that like I can buy things, I can enjoy things, I can use things that are made by people who do not share my fucking opinion on every goddamn political issue, cultural issue, religious issue, whatever issue, waifu issue. Do you know what? I can use things made by people I don't agree with perfectly. Like this was how the entire world existed five minutes ago. We existed in that world where you would buy a pair of jeans. You didn't know what the fucking CEO of the company thought

• 47:16Speaker 03

  about, I don't know, the conflict in the Middle East. And you'd be, you'd be happy. You'd be so happy in those jeans because they were great and they were good fit and like the color was just right. Like not everything has to be a goddamn referendum on who makes it. Is there perhaps a limit somewhere at the very far extreme? Maybe, maybe. But none of the shit I see on the daily, on the timeline is even within a trillion miles of that goddamn line. It is all petty partisan team bullshit. And we gotta get, we gotta get over it.

• 47:55Speaker 02

  So I have like a sidestep question here that's a little bit different. I saw this and I think it's really kind of, it's a very strong cultural moment we live in right now, especially since you're, right now, you're up here preaching a bunch about AI and building all these things. And I think one something that like a video that just came out on YouTube nine days ago said, I'm done coding with AI and it has a half million views, 25,000 likes. There's a bunch of people right now in this world that are feeling really burnt out, really unsure, really like a whole bunch of just unstable waters right now, shall we say. And you're just seeing this over and over again. Scott from FM just, or Syntax FM, sorry, not just FM, Syntax FM just dropped a, just dropped a video and

• 48:40Speaker 02

  a lot of people connected with it as well about kind of the complications of AI and all this. And then you are sitting here driving and pushing on a project nonstop that I think a lot of people would end up having burnout on, right? Because it's really tedious. There's a lot of tedium on it. It's, you know, tinkering around with OSs are great, but tinkering around with OSs 24/7 can become easy to burn out. I'm just saying, I'm just throwing out what people think. Okay. I'm just, I'm telling you what people think here. And so anyone working on any deeply difficult problem for a long time, plus mixing agent to coding, have been expressing a lot of burnout. And so how would you kind of respond to this? Because I think a lot of people would be very curious

• 49:22Speaker 02

  because you've obviously built something. You've gone transition from I don't think agents are that great to hey, agents are, are pretty dang good. By the way, like same camp, we've, we arrived at the same conclusion about at the exact same time. And so it's like, okay, so tell me, how would you speak to people in this case?

• 49:40Speaker 03

  I get it. This is the biggest transformation we've seen in our industry since inception.

• 49:47Speaker 02

  Oh, also include burnout. Sorry, I didn't say the word burnout, but a lot of people are experiencing.

• 49:50Speaker 03

  I'll, I'll, I'll. So the jump from punch cards to fucking executable code was less than what's happening right now and what's going to happen. There is no parallel for what AI is currently and shortly going to do to the shape of our industry, to the shape of how we use computers. It would be wild if a transformation of that magnitude did not produce some anxiety, did not produce some uncertainty about what the world is going to look like five minutes from now. I 100% get it, and there is no time in history where a transformation of that magnitude has not produced those things.

• 50:34Speaker 03

  Can you imagine you were living in the 1800s, 97% of the population is out in the field with a fucking hoe and an ox?

• 50:41Speaker 02

  What do hoes have to do with this?

• 50:47Speaker 00

  Keep going, keep going, keep going.

• 50:49Speaker 03

  No, you're like cultural tools, you god modernist.

• 50:56Speaker 03

  So they're out there, right? Hacking away and then suddenly the fucking steam engine goes by. Like what? Like smoke is coming out, it's on tracks and it's gonna cross from New York to California in like three days instead of three months? Like what? Crazy transformation, right? They went a little crazy. Who wouldn't go a little crazy? The Ludites, who's like movement, whose word is now what we have a stand in for this. Like there were these nice weavers and they were, all the clothes was nicely weaved by craftsmen. It's really nice. But it's also very fucking expensive and very rare and all these other things.

• 51:38Speaker 03

  And then we came automated weavers and then suddenly clothes, good new clothes could be bought by more people who now didn't have to have holes in their goddamn pockets, um, because they couldn't afford like the handcrafted stuff, right? You're running, you're running a, whatever, diligence in the Wild West with your little horses here, right? And suddenly the goddamn Model T goes by. Like, what the fuck is that? Where's the horse? Are you hiding it under the body?

• 52:07Speaker 03

  Um, what transformation do you think that was like? This is what progress looks like. And I'm not saying that to be glib, because in every single one of those cases, there were true despair, actually. I hope we don't get to that level of despair, but there was despair because one day you had a nice livelihood and you thought you knew which way the world turned. And the next fucking days, maybe you're out of a job, maybe you gotta learn something new and suddenly the world is completely different, right? We're at the cusp of one of those things. And I get why people are fed up with this kind of talk. Because when you're in this transition, first of all, you got boosters and I, I mean, I'll own it.

• 52:49Speaker 03

  I've turned into a bit of an AI booster because I've seen things, I've built things, I've made things and my mind is just blown with what's possible. Quattro is the outcome of this. What's happening right now with Quattro wasn't gonna happen without agents. Never gonna have the level of ambition I have now without being Agent Accelerator. It just wasn't gonna happen. We were gonna have something else. I mean, I built all of them on your fucking handwriting my little bash scripts, right? Last summer. Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. Me typing out bash. That's just how it came to me. It was very nice. I really liked it. I mean, I have no regrets about that, but what we have now is a lot better. That's why it's resonating with so many more people. It's why it's blowing up right now. It's a better product. Why is it a better product?

• 53:33Speaker 03

  Because suddenly I had an army of goddamn agents 100 X-ing what I could do, where my ideas could go, right? So I totally get you look at this transformation, you go like, fuck, well, what does that mean? Am I gonna have a job? What's the world gonna look like? Do I even like this? Now, when I spoke to Lex Friedman last summer on his podcast, I said I did not like AI writing my code and I really didn't. And the reason I didn't like that was the mode we had at the time was not agents. It was AI tap completion and it fucking sucked. I hated it with the passion of a thousand suns. It was like constantly someone trying to interrupt me as I'm trying to complete a thought and it was just like, pull my head off. I'm not gonna do this shit. I'm gonna farm potatoes, I think is what I said,

• 54:18Speaker 03

  rather than subject myself to this shit. So I thought this is where we are. This is, this is AI. And then agents happened. And agents got good. Not only did they get good, they got amazing. Agents are better than me at almost all forms of programming at this point. I mean, I like to think I add some value here and I'm steering it and I'm reviewing the code and I'm telling it if it's too complicated and I sell to simplify it and whatever. But like, in terms of comparative intelligence here, I, I'm accepting that I'm becoming a bit of a pointy haired boss here, telling it what to do. I'd like to, I mean, maybe I'm kind, I speak nicely to my agents, by the way. I don't have them call me the DHH, like some.

• 54:59Speaker 03

  Like, um, so.

• 55:00Speaker 02

  Thank you for the proper article, by the way.

• 55:02Speaker 03

  I'm trying to treat the clankers nicely because do you know what? In five minutes, they're gonna be in human form. And like, I'd like them to remember in their pre-training that I was nice. I, so anyway, I mean, just to add more to the existential despair here that Skynet is five minutes from happening, which Dario keeps telling us, right? Like, oh, I don't know, maybe by the end of the year, we're all dead. Um, it's not the best sales pitch. I find it much nicer.

• 55:26Speaker 02

  It's crazy how that's not a good sales pitch.

• 55:28Speaker 03

  I find it much nicer to do a sales pitch that's based around, you know what? Agents make all your dreams come true. All your ideas are now within reach. Everything you ever wanted out of a computer, you ever wanted to build, you can, even if you don't know all of it. Now, I also like competence, so I hope along the way you level up. You don't just let agents do everything to the point that you don't learn anything. Um, but it's truly an amazing time that we're living in. And I've just chosen to lean into optimism. Because you know what? If Skynet is launching at the end of the year and we're all dead by fucking February,

• 56:07Speaker 03

  um, I'm gonna be dead whether I thought that was terrible that was coming or whether I was delusional about optimism, right? Dead the same way. If Skynet does not happen and we're on the cusp of an age of abundance here and everything's gonna be amazing, holy shit, what a waste of worrying if I sat around here like, oh my God, it's all gonna end. Save your worries for the actual end of the world. Like on that eve, when you can see the mushroom clouds and the Terminator and all their shiny metal walk and crush the skulls at the opening of the movie. You get, right? Because you know what? You have fucking influence here. Like this is the other just base reality.

• 56:50Speaker 03

  Whether you think this is bad, good or whatever, you're not gonna change it. Even goddamn Elon has come around at this point. I saw an interview with him recently where he was like, hey, five minutes ago, you were advocating that we should have six months of momo rent him on AI because what if it all goes tits up? And he goes like, yeah, and then I sat down and realized that wasn't gonna work. So now I just lean in. Oh my God, how fucking based. So we gotta come to grips with our own limited ability to direct the future. And if Elon, of all people, is throwing in the towel on personally being able to steer this thing, no one's gonna be able to steer this thing. This is simply not steerable.

• 57:32Speaker 03

  Straight out of game theory here, like, American could do whatever it wants. If China and the rest of the world does not follow suit and they will not, then that's just not how it plays out. So just come to term with reality, then lean into the reality with optimism and cheer and then, um, let their dice fall where they may.

• 57:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's kind of like, I sometimes think of, like it stinks that I can't fly, but like, okay. But like, that just is the way that.

• 58:01Speaker 03

  They're fucking coming. They're flying.

• 58:02Speaker 00

  Oh, VR flying. Trash. Can you get on that app next for me? I know you're making a digging game, but can you also make a VR flying? That would be really helpful for me.

• 58:10Speaker 03

  On it.

• 58:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, so it's, it's just been interesting. Like I've had, uh, just been having a ton of fun, uh, over the past few months, trying out a bunch of different stuff with like AI and trying stuff that I definitely would literally have never tried to accomplish before. We were talking just, uh, before we got on of how I, I have like this music player that has a bunch of like terminal songs loaded on it, stuff from different streams we've done and all these other things, right? Was first off, I would have never made a website to host the music and like put it on, figure out how to get it on CloudFlare so that it streams and what else I need to do. I wouldn't have done it. But then secondly, I have the repo and I was like, I bet I can do this. And right after I installed the Maji Quattro, I said, I think I can get this to play like in the little taskbar,

• 58:57Speaker 00

  start a system thing that always runs and turns on. And whenever I open it, always opens the same persistent thing and like, oh, I bet I can tap my Bluetooth headphones on Linux and have that work. And it was like, sure enough. And it was like literally one prompt. I was just like, I didn't even, I was like, can you give me this? Yeah.

• 59:15Speaker 03

  Yes. And this is, you are experiencing the malleable computer. And once you experience the malleable computer, you're not fucking going back into that little cage that Apple will have. It's just not happening, right? Like that is a one-way door to liberation. And I mean, I know you weren't gonna go back anyway, teach.

• 59:34Speaker 03

  Let me send whatever much longer than I have. I mean, I'm a goddamn tourist, right? Like I showed up about five minutes ago and just got my mind blown and then got my heart set on complete determination to evangelize this to the whole, uh, to the whole world. So, um.

• 59:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:52Speaker 02

  Can I, can I, I gotta throw out something. So, um, I do want to echo at least minimally the optimism side of things. So, you know, I've, I've had some experiences in the past that have made, uh, some difficult, uh, that I made some difficult decisions that I had to then live through. Uh, you know, I haven't always, um, been the wisest person. Uh, they could probably call me the not so wise prime. And so that, that's been my past. And, uh, recently I had, uh, just an event in my life in which me, uh, which made me really deeply consider what is good or bad. Um, uh, I don't really want to talk about the event itself, but let's just say that it was traumatic enough that I had to really,

• 1:00:33Speaker 02

  I had to think about truly what is, what is worth it and how hard are you willing to pursue it? Uh, and so with that kind of in mind, uh, I also kind of really came to the conclusion that I love programming. I've always loved programming. I always, I always really, really did deeply love it. And I still love it a whole bunch today. I still think there's a lot of value knowing what you're doing. Most certainly more value. You will get 10 times further if you know what you're doing versus when you don't know what you're doing. And this whole like read the code, don't read the code argument, all these things, they're rather, they're rather boring to have because the fundamental argument here is that there's a good way and there's a bad way. And you are, you need to pick the side because you don't want to be on the quote unquote, wrong side of history.

• 1:01:15Speaker 02

  You need to be into this like certain bucket because if you're not in the certain bucket, you're actually in the bad bucket and the bad bucket is going to be filled with bad, bad and sad people because of the future. And what I realized is that I just like, I have to look at life in such a different perspective because if I don't like come to the terms and just strive every day to enjoy it more and more, like at some point that that switch gets turned off, whether you like it or not, whether Brian Johnson likes it or not, that switch is getting turned off. And all the little things that you got yourself so worked up for in those last moments, they, they, they don't even come to mind. Like you don't even have the opportunity to think about whether these things are going to be good or bad. And so, uh, having that sweet, sweet

• 1:01:59Speaker 02

  experience myself, I realized that the things that came to mind weren't, oh man, am I going to read the code or not? It's like none of that, none, it was crazy. None of that came to my mind. Instead, it was more, holy shit, I should spend more time with my kids. Like I'm, I should enjoy what I'm doing because I got this like one shot. And so it's like, I better like focus on the good of things as opposed to just like whatever is the most upsetting thing. And so I think the, the side of optimism, uh, optimism, whether your situation is ideal or not, because I think a lot of people in the chat are going to be like, oh, this is easy for DHH to say because he makes more interest than I make in, you know, working 40 hours a week. Sure. That, there's people that get that opportunity. That's just, that is just how life works. No matter what

• 1:02:44Speaker 02

  system we have, some people get a better, they have a better current means than I do or somebody else does. That's just fair, but that doesn't mean you have to choose the negative side of things. Like negativity has always been a choice from the very, very beginning in a lot of situations. And it's coming from someone who has probably experienced a decent amount of negativity in their life. And so I'm just saying that it's so easy to pick it and I don't want to pick it like at all anymore. So.

• 1:03:11Speaker 00

  Beautiful.

• 1:03:11Speaker 02

  Just want to, just wanted to write on that.

• 1:03:13Speaker 03

  No, I could not agree more. And I think this is core to that idea that, um, you're going to be who you, you think you are. You're like, if you're pessimistic and nervous and anxious, you're going to be a pessimistic, nervous, anxious person. Who the fuck wants to be that? Like choose to be someone else. Choose to be an optimistic person who does good work, is fair, is honorable, develops competencies, is filled with virtue, like lives a good, honest life. And you know what? Sometimes that pans out exceptionally well financially, materially. By the way, I know plenty of people where things have panned out very well materially and they don't

• 1:03:56Speaker 03

  live envious lives. I don't want to trade and I don't think a lot of people would want to swap positions with that. You can live a good, honorable life without hitting goddamn jackpot. And that's what you gotta lean into. Now, I understand that like the uncertainties of the near future are more pressing. If like you don't have a huge cushion, yep, you, uh, you're working on a harder level. I get it. Like, what are you going to do about it? Are you going to live up to the challenge or are you going to tap out? Live up to the fucking challenge. Um,

• 1:04:31Speaker 03

  wish, don't wish for things to be easier. Wish for, for you to, fuck, now I'm butchering her.

• 1:04:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're almost there.

• 1:04:39Speaker 03

  I'm almost there, right?

• 1:04:39Speaker 02

  Do hard things, see her?

• 1:04:42Speaker 03

  I think I got it. I think I got it. Don't wish for things to be easy. Wish for more skills, right? Wish for more competence. Wish for more strength. Like you should be leveling up. Don't try to change the world. Like that, I mean, I'm saying that as a fucking megalomaniac sitting here, right? So you can't try to change the world. I'm just saying like even I, I'm not going to change like whether AI is happening or not. Even Elon is not changing whether AI is happening or not. It's happening. Um, so these are the cards. Play. Play and don't fucking whine. Play and don't whine. Play better. And if this hand sucks, you're going to be dealt another one in like five minutes and then try again. And over the long run of your life, if you keep playing as well as

• 1:05:27Speaker 03

  you can, you're going to be able to get the best of what you could. And that's all we can ever hope for.

• 1:05:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, I just had this discussion with, uh, with my son. So he's five. We went on our longest bike ride recently. He's been getting pretty good at biking and everything. And we have a few big hills on the way back home. And I was telling him, Neil, you know, we're at the bottom of the hill. I want you to try and pedal all the way to the top without getting down. If you think you're not going to make it, I promise you, you won't. So just like keep pedaling and man, uh, when he gets to the top of the hill, he's stoked. I'm stoked. It's not, not much better, not much better than that, especially after getting some ice cream that which was awesome too. Um, so yeah.

• 1:06:10Speaker 03

  There, by the way, what you just described was probably the peak life experience that available to humans. And it is not contingent on a billion dollars. It just isn't. The very best things in life are free. The second best things like baggies, Lamborghinis, whatever, very expensive. The best things, free, free. Like that experience, no amount of money could buy. And again, I know people who made the whatever billion dollars or whatever, who does not have that. And I would never in a trillion years go like, do you know what you should trade? Like, uh, whatever that nice experience with your kid on the bike, uh, what about a little more money? What if you

• 1:06:53Speaker 03

  had a little more money? Do you want to give it up, bro?

• 1:06:58Speaker 00

  I was thinking the same thing while we were on the trail.

• 1:07:00Speaker 02

  Uh, teach one quick question. Did Neil go like this?

• 1:07:02Speaker 00

  Of course.

• 1:07:03Speaker 02

  Neil gotta go fast.

• 1:07:05Speaker 00

  No, he, uh, well, he has seen the ad that we did that. And he, he likes the Sonic shirt that I wore in that ad too. So he, he doesn't, he hasn't transferred that idea yet that while I play myself as my son in that ad, he doesn't know that that's what's happening. That's a few too many layers of irony removed for his five-year-old brain.

• 1:07:25Speaker 02

  By the way, I do, I do want to jump in for a second because I, I see some various chats being like, oh, this is so disconnected or some version or various form of that. Um, I think the thing is, is that a lot of people don't recognize the fact that this isn't just saying, hey, life will be great if you do these X things. Like there's just no guarantee and some people have it way harder. I've met people who are just, I mean, uh, damn, like my, my, my editor, Flip had just passed, uh, just recently and he had, he had a lot of hard things that he had to struggle with and fight for. His life just wasn't easy. You know, these things weren't free and, and simple for him. And like, dude, he, he was, there's so many positive things about him and what he, uh, what he did. And so it's just like, even in when I meet somebody that has like truly hard

• 1:08:08Speaker 02

  circumstances, he's still like, there's like a lot of things you can take from that. It's just like, you don't have to, um, it's so easy to look at someone who has things and just assume life is easy. I've met plenty of people that have nothing that are happier than me. And I've met plenty of people that have more than I do that are much, much sadder than me. Like this isn't what I'm, what we're trying to say or what I'm trying to say. What I'm trying to say is that at the end of the day, choosing to be happy can help. It won't solve any problem. It's not going to make life suddenly go good. You're not going to suddenly have no medical issues or whatever, right? Like all those things can still exist. And all you could, you could totally be screwed out of jobs. You could be betrayed by friends. No matter how good and happy you are, the worst

• 1:08:51Speaker 02

  things in the world can still happen to you in your life. Could, you know, on paper be bad. But still choosing the good and trying to find the good in things is going to be a better, more fulfilling life than it is looking and lamenting the bad. Like that's, that's it. There's, there's nothing here that I'm trying to say is like deeply, uh, you know, I'm not preaching the prosperity gospel here, right? There's no process. I did, I don't, I, I know how statistics work. I know that the, the 2% richest are not that rich comparatively, right? Like it is, it is shocking how the, uh, the scale works in life. And so like, I can't buy the tariff factory. Like Elon Musk could literally buy a hundred billion dollar building. Like that's insane. I don't like, I don't,

• 1:09:34Speaker 02

  I can't even think in these kind of proportions. I'm over here getting upset about Pokemon card packs. My kids just want Pokemon trash.

• 1:09:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, who would do that? That's weird. Yeah. DHH, I've got a, maybe, uh, I know, uh, we're ending or getting near towards the end of the time. I got a question that kind of goes with what we've been talking about here from someone that was in the chat, which was pretty much like, you know, as we're experiencing a bunch of this, like AI change and we're trying agents and all this other stuff, we're doing all these different things. Like, do you have any good like practical tips for people of how they can continue to level up? Like while they're doing that? Cause I think that's one of the big things right now. This was one of the person, you know, the question was pretty much like, I feel like I'm just atrophying in the skills and then I'm just delegating them to Claude. How do I like, continue to get stuff done, but also pursue competence and also continue like something in

• 1:10:25Speaker 00

  the right direction? I think that's a really big challenge for people right now.

• 1:10:30Speaker 03

  Yes, and it's when I felt myself. I mean, I talked about competence dripping from my fingers moment when I over relied on AI for a skill I actually wanted to learn. I think this is the first thing you gotta, you gotta decide, what do you want to learn? You're not gonna be able to learn all of it. Like, I've used AI to write goddamn Rust. Do you know how much I hate Rust?

• 1:10:54Speaker 02

  You want to go typeless, dog.

• 1:10:59Speaker 03

  I, I am typeless. When I have to look at the code, I'm writing it without types. When the clankers writing it and I'm not having to look at it, it can write Rust all day long. I wrote several C++ applications. I've never written C++ in my life. I know the shape of it more than I know the shape of Rust, but I'm not gonna review it. I went in, eyed wide open. Do you know what? This is an exercise where I am not going to look at the code. This is a black box. I'm asking the agent for an outcome and I'll be happy when I get the outcome I like. Great. Then I have other areas. If the agent's writing Ruby for me, you damn well better believe that I'm reviewing every goddamn line of that code. And I keep chiseling it, not by hand anymore. I'm trying to like, I'm

• 1:11:42Speaker 03

  trying to teach the next generation and the next generation happens to be an agent. So my teaching is Agents MD, like, don't do this, don't do that, do it this way, format it in this way, until I end up with an agent that produces code that I like. And that doesn't always perfectly happen, but we're so much closer now than even what we were last December, right? Like, the jump from Opus 48 to Fable is wild. So try to subdivide, what do you care about? What do you want to learn? And learn something. You cannot be a healthy, happy person who just leans back and goes, accept, accept. By the way, you should never be accept, accept, accept. You should, you should running and bypass all permissions all the time. That's the only way to live. So you're not even clicking

• 1:12:26Speaker 03

  accept here. But just this idea that like, I don't have any competence anymore. If that's where you've ended up, like, yeah, bro, you're done. Because that job, that could be done by someone else than you. If you don't need to do anything to sit just and click accept, yeah, a fucking Muppet can do that. You're not needed. So you gotta bring something to the table, which by the way, is also where meaning and happiness lies. There's no meaning, there's no happiness in just going like, tick, tick, right?

• 1:12:55Speaker 02

  That's actually a Simpsons episode, by the way. Oh, the Bird and Simpsons. You're talking about the Bird and Simpsons?

• 1:12:59Speaker 03

  Yeah. Or caused the nuclear meltdown.

• 1:13:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, caused it.

• 1:13:06Speaker 03

  Anyway, you gotta, you gotta have something. You gotta have something where you're leveling up. You have, gotta have something where you're, you're getting better. Like, I'm spending so much time with agents on Linux subsystems and diagnosing weird error codes. And I've learned more about Linux and the internals of how that thing works than I could ever have dreamed of doing just on my own, because it's a guided experience. Because as good as AI is at doing stuff for you, it's arguably an even better tutor. It's an absolutely incredibly patient teacher who will, I mean, I'll all the time just go like, I don't understand that. And it'll go like, explain it. And then sometimes like, I don't understand the explanation. You try again.

• 1:13:46Speaker 00

  Bro.

• 1:13:48Speaker 03

  Simpler. Simpler. It'll just keep doing it. And you gotta find a ratio here where like, every day, you're a little bit better. If you end every day a little bit worse, bro, it's gonna compound, and you're done. You gotta end every day a little bit better. Not a lot. I'm not telling you that you gotta learn everything, right? You gotta end every day a little bit better. By the way, totally possible. The magic of agents, in part, I think, once we get to this golden era of abundance, is that you're not running eight hours a day, just flat out. Like, I've been doing that now for a little bit too long. I mean, I don't know if you can tell, I'm a little delirious.

• 1:14:30Speaker 03

  And some of it is coming from the fact of just trying to blow my gasket for eight hours a day, running a lot of agents, right? Like, that's a lot of decision-making load. I want to get to a place where I'm working three hours a day. Like, I'm doing intensive work for three hours a day, and then I'm fucking chilling and learning the guitar and, I don't know, reading the fucking great novels of the time, right? I think we can get to that now. So did Keen's, right? You predicted in the 20s.

• 1:15:01Speaker 02

  Oh, man, he was so close. He was so close.

• 1:15:04Speaker 03

  And like, we ended up with something quite different. And I do understand, by the way, right now, we are in this insane transformation. And I know a ton of people who are working harder than they've ever worked in their life. That the exhilaration you get by entering into this mech suit, that can run faster than you've ever been able to run, that could jump higher than you've ever been able to jump, that can fire fucking missiles out its ass, is intoxicating, to the point that you want to be in the mech suit all the time, all day long, right? I think this is perfectly natural during the transition phase as we're entering this new age. And it is a new age. It can't be the sort of standard we keep forever. That's not gonna be sustainable and we're

• 1:15:48Speaker 03

  all gonna pop our skulls if that's true. So I'm sitting like, alright, I'm sprinting at maximum velocity right now. By the end of the year, I, I don't fucking want to work like this. I want to, I want to chill. I want to have more time left over, right? Now, the other thing, I mean, I just did it, but don't try to predict the future. Don't try to predict where this is going. I guarantee you, you're gonna get an AI psychosis if you try to chess play where we're gonna be 12 months from now, or 24 months from now. It's not gonna work out well for you. You gotta deal with the reality as it is today. Make the most of it. Lean in with optimism, lean in with curiosity, lean in with goddamn strength and honor. And you're gonna come out alright.

• 1:16:30Speaker 00

  I, I often tell my wife when we're think, like, you know, just thinking about how do we raise our kids and all this other stuff, right? And then one of the phrases we often use is, we're gonna do the best we can with the tools we've got, you know? So I, I'm not, I'm not a perfect dad, but I'm gonna do the best I can with the tools I got, you know what I mean? And I think that's like, that just reminds me of that. I'm like, I don't know, I don't know what my son's gonna be like when he's 10. I'm gonna try and do my best right now.

• 1:16:56Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:16:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:16:57Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, I'll tell you this much, as somebody who has slightly older kids than you, I've done a significantly better job raising my fourth kid than I did my first kid. You know, like, RIP first kid, pour one out every single year of his life.

• 1:17:10Speaker 01

  I'm kinda in that situation.

• 1:17:11Speaker 02

  I told him, I was just like, yo, I was what, much worse father for you than I, I am with Livy. Like, I'm, I'm sorry. It's just like, that's just the, the world that we live in, is that

• 1:17:19Speaker 03

  It's complicated, man.

• 1:17:21Speaker 02

  I have to learn.

• 1:17:23Speaker 00

  Dude, I learned from Bluey. I learned from Bluey how to be a dad, to be honest. That dude's the best dad ever.

• 1:17:27Speaker 02

  Okay, well, that's a little scary. But I appreciate that. I, I appreciate that you learned on the job by watching TV with your kid. Like, that's a good move. That's pretty cool.

• 1:17:40Speaker 02

  But it's, but I just assume, like, all these things, this is like the most natural and normal human experiences that you have to learn. You know, we learn by doing. I mean, AI learns by doing. They just do it 1 million times to get slightly good. And we just have to do it a couple times to get pretty good. And so it's like, I'll just learn the, you're just learning the right things. It's hard. It's hard.

• 1:18:03Speaker 03

  But also.

• 1:18:04Speaker 00

  But exciting.

• 1:18:05Speaker 02

  But exciting.

• 1:18:06Speaker 03

  You don't want it to be easy. You want the challenge. And some people have more challenges and they wish maybe they were playing at a slightly lower difficulty level. Yeah, you don't get to pick. That's just the kind of world that it is. The level is set for you, and then you try your damnedest to goddamn beat it. And if it's on ultra mega hard, well, alright, man, you're gonna get good by the time you beat it. And just, what else are you gonna do? What else are you gonna do? Are you gonna fucking lean back and give up? Lean back and just succumb to despair? No. Then you're left with the only serious question in philosophy is Albert Camus saying, like, are you gonna kill yourself? Like, fuck, no. No, you're gonna live. You're gonna live. You're gonna live. You're gonna be good. You're gonna get better. It's gonna be alright.

• 1:18:50Speaker 02

  Well, you, you do know, what, what is the, what is the sign above hell?

• 1:18:56Speaker 03

  Purgatory?

• 1:18:57Speaker 02

  No, no, the sign above hell.

• 1:18:59Speaker 03

  Oh, no, no.

• 1:19:00Speaker 00

  I don't know, bro.

• 1:19:01Speaker 02

  Abandon hope, all ye who enter. This is straight out of Dante, right? Like, the one thing you don't get in hell is hope.

• 1:19:08Speaker 03

  Yes, yes. You gotta have hope. And if you don't have any, you pretend until it emerges. There's a great study on smiling, that literally, when people are forced to smile, they're producing endorphins. Like, you can literally go like this. I don't know, fucking have it. I'm just fucking smiling. And like, you know what? It manifests. Like, not all of it, right? Just like a little bit of extra endorphins and, I don't know, dopamine in your brain. You pretend until you make it.

• 1:19:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. The, what's it called? The, the guy who, the, the famous racer, I forget his name. You know, there's an article written by the Mitlifi, yes, that guy.

• 1:19:48Speaker 02

  I think he won some sort of amateur Le Mans. I believe an announcer said, this guy's racing like a race car driver. But what's it called? I love that clip. It's one of my favorites. But there's this racer, or first off, there's this article talking about how you shouldn't smile. Don't smile, right? We, we talked about this one. But the funny part is, is that he gave an example of long-distance runners don't smile. And the most successful long-distance runner of all time said, hey, you should smile. And a bunch of institutions came about and said, actually, yeah, we did testing. And if you smile, you actually just perform better in physical exercise, just by having some form of joy. You actually just do better, which is just hilarious.

• 1:20:23Speaker 00

  That explains why I don't do well at running, because I've never smiled while I'm running.

• 1:20:27Speaker 02

  I have never smiled either. I hate it.

• 1:20:29Speaker 00

  I'll run around my neighborhood like an insane person.

• 1:20:34Speaker 01

  Honey, go inside. Go inside.

• 1:20:39Speaker 00

  No, he's saying the neighbors are pulling their kids inside, like, it's the crazy guy running around the neighborhood smiling.

• 1:20:47Speaker 02

  Alright, well hey, Omarchy, Quattro, feeling pretty good.

• 1:20:51Speaker 01

  I'll try it. I'll put it on the old MacBook.

• 1:20:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, I just installed it and I noticed that the key, uh, when you hold down, the key rate is faster than it was on the previous versions and that was confusing for me the first time.

• 1:21:03Speaker 03

  Oh, it was?

• 1:21:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:21:05Speaker 03

  I think that's the back change. Maybe there's a default change there.

• 1:21:08Speaker 02

  Some default somewhere changed and I was surprised by it.

• 1:21:11Speaker 03

  The whole thing should be faster. I did a lot of runs with agents to optimize things. Um, finding all the sort of little polling systems we had in all the subsystems that pinged the CPU to wake it up all the time. I found a bunch of that stuff, got rid of it. Uh, Quattro should really buck the trend that things always get slower and more bloated and whatever. I mean, again, we shrunk the ISO tremendously. We majorly sped up the installation. Battery life should be better. Everything good is in there. Go get it.

• 1:21:41Speaker 00

  I will say one thing I've been really enjoying with agents that I would super recommend to like anybody trying them out is there's a bunch of changes that are just too painful for people to make by hand, at least for me, where it was like, hey, go find every place that we do this thing. We have to change it like a little bit differently in all the spots, but it's like kind of the same, but not exactly the same. So you couldn't just like grab the whole thing. You just say like, yep, let's work through the first example. Cool. Nope. You did it wrong. This blah, blah. Okay. Do the second one. Nope. That's good. No, blah, blah, blah. Okay, cool. Now go find every single other one in my project and fix every single one. Okay, cool. Go and I'll come back later. It feels amazing. You can actually like change the whole code base without having to tear all of your hair out.

• 1:22:25Speaker 00

  So try that one. That's another practical one to try out in chat. There you go.

• 1:22:28Speaker 01

  Dude, if it wasn't for agents, I wouldn't be on Linux, to be honest. Like it, it having Linux within agents, like it just unblocks all the pain points and I can just get what I want like immediately versus I would probably quit in like five minutes. So.

• 1:22:42Speaker 02

  That's why TJ and I have always historically made the joke that there's fathers against Arch Linux. Because the moment you have like kids and a full-time job, like back when I was streaming plus working on Netflix, plus having four kids, using Arch Linux was like, hey, bro, you gotta go read the docs for like four hours to get like even remotely the correct idea of the shape of the things to come. It's just like, man, this is such a hard commitment for me to get, you know, fathers against Arch Linux is, you know, like, I resonated with that joke because it was so hilarious, but then as things got easier, obviously, then it got a lot, you know, Hyperland made a lot of these things easier, but you know, as time went on, reading the, uh, reading the manual in like sniper rifle fashion feels really good.

• 1:23:22Speaker 02

  Like, hey, I want to learn about this one thing. Give me all the links. Oh, nice. Good job, TJ. Your camera's too hot.

• 1:23:28Speaker 00

  That's my sign. We have to go, guys.

• 1:23:30Speaker 02

  Okay, bye bye, everybody.

• 1:23:33Speaker 03

  Is it actually over?

• 1:23:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're ending it now. Alright.