"No Murder, Yes Pork Chops," Says Comic Negin Farsad (Reheat)

Negin Farsad loves to negotiate. And when it comes to negotiating, nothing is off-limits — even religious law. "I feel like Allah would be like, 'Get the pork chop but don't kill anybody,'" the Iranian-American Muslim comedian and host of Fake the Nation says. This week, Negin uses her lamb kebab to school us on campaign finance reform.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dan Pashman?

  My whole extended family and I went to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina this past spring. And I gotta say, I came away feeling like, number one, this is a great family destination. Number two, this is a great place to come all year round. The mini golf alone is probably worth, it's like the mini golf capital of the country. They have the most incredible elaborate mini golf courses. They also have more than 80 championship, full-size golf courses, plus 60 miles of beautiful coastline, all-season sunshine. Of course, you can relax by the beach or the pool. There's also jet skiing, fishing charters, paddle boarding, and of course, food. Oh, man, did we eat well in Myrtle Beach. From fresh, local seafood, to Kraft burgers and Kraft beers, to kebabs on the boardwalk. With more than 2,000 restaurants to choose from, from legendary no-frills seafood

• 0:43Dan Pashman?

  shacks to chef-driven dining, Myrtle Beach has it all. Plus, live entertainment. At the beach, there's always something epic going on. So, summer may be winding down, but in Myrtle Beach, you're gonna find the coastal vacation of your dreams all year long. Start planning your ultimate beach vacation at visitmyrtlebeach.com. I grew up on Lando Lakes cheese. I still remember going to the supermarket deli counter with my mom and her ordering Lando Lakes American cheese. And now, Lando Lakes cheese and butter are a huge part of my home. There are so many easy weeknight recipes using Lando Lakes cheese and butter that bring delicious restaurant taste right to your table. From chicken parm to weeknight shrimp pad Thai, Lando Lakes has plenty of quick dishes that'll have the whole dinner table talking. Visit landolakes.com/reцепes/collection for easy

• 1:28Dan Pashman?

  weeknight dinners.

• 1:33Speaker 01

  Sirius XM Podcasts.

• 1:41Dan Pashman?

  For today's reheat, we're sharing my first-ever interview with Nagin Farasad. She's been on the show again since. Nagin is a great guest and also one of my favorite people. She's a comedian, writer, filmmaker, actor. But what I love about Nagin is that she's one of these very rare people who is so incredibly sharp on very serious issues, and also incredibly funny, and manages to mix those two things and go back and forth effortlessly. She does that on her podcast, Fake the Nation, where I've been lucky enough to be a guest a few times, and in so much of her other work. And you're gonna see Nagin's ability to weave serious issues, and comedy, and food in this episode, because we're gonna talk about everything from campaign finance reform, to her favorite foods growing up in Southern California. Now, if you wanna see Nagin perform live, she's got

• 2:24Dan Pashman?

  dates lined up in September and October, including a guest hosting stint in Chicago for NPR's beloved quiz show, Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me. For more info and tickets, head to naginfarsad.com/events. And of course, as always, if there's a Sporkful episode you want us to pull out of the deep freezer and reheat, drop me a line. We take requests. I'm at [email protected]. Thanks and enjoy. This episode of The Sporkful contains explicit language.

• 2:51Dan Pashman?

  Did they turn off the music, or were we just in between songs?

• 2:54Speaker 01

  It's between songs. Yeah, no, it's, the music is still on.

• 2:59Dan Pashman?

  I just wanna try to get them to-

• 3:01Speaker 01

  You want me to go-

• 3:02Dan Pashman?

  No, no, I spoke for-

• 3:04Speaker 01

  Oh, okay, okay.

• 3:04Dan Pashman?

  I think it's- I'm at Cafe Mogador. It's an institution in New York's East Village. It's still run by the same Israeli Moroccan family that opened it 35 years ago. But this is my first visit. I've come because my guest, Nagin Farasad, picked it. Nagin's a comedian, actor, writer, filmmaker. She's Iranian-American. She grew up in a Muslim family in Southern California. So, a secular Jew and a secular Muslim walk into a Middle Eastern restaurant, and we can't get the music turned off. You see, my producer, Ann, called ahead, as she usually does when we're taping in a restaurant, and said, can you please turn the music off so we can get good sound for our taping? And they had told her, sure, no problem. But then I got there and they said, we can't turn the music off. And I said, but you said you'd

• 3:46Dan Pashman?

  turn the music off. And they said, maybe, let me talk to the manager, maybe this room, maybe that room. It was a hold to do.

• 3:54Speaker 01

  Oh, there it is. Hey, okay.

• 3:57Dan Pashman?

  Perfect, there we go. It's something so funny to me when I come to any kind of Middle Eastern, vaguely Semitic environment. Like, it feels a little bit like, like, these are your people, but then also, like, you love your family the way no one else does, but then also, they annoy you in a way that no one else does?

• 4:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:18Dan Pashman?

  I just had a brief, like-

• 4:20Speaker 01

  Moment of that?

• 4:21Dan Pashman?

  Well, just like, the, like, the discussion of, like, trying to get the music turned off. And then it's like, oh, but we said that we wouldn't turn it off, but oh, but we will turn it off. We can turn it down in this room, but not in that room. And then he'd get asked a second time. They're like, oh, yes, yes, I forgot. Sorry, I'll take that now.

• 4:33Speaker 01

  Right, right, right, right.

• 4:33Dan Pashman?

  And, you know-

• 4:35Speaker 01

  It reminds me of, like, when I was in India. I was in India to film a movie, and I, you know, and we would get all sorts of documents, like, to, you know, are we allowed to film here? Yes, here's your official government documents. You're allowed to film here, you're allowed to film here. And then we would get to the places, and then we would, and they would be like, no, you can't film here. And then, and they'd be like, you know, what about, like, a couple of rupees? You know what I mean? Will I do the job? And they'd be like, 500 rupees. And we'd be like, 10 rupees. You know what I mean? And then we'd go through this ridiculous haggling process. And I remember, like, even if it was or wasn't my job, like, I would be thrust to the, to the front, um, to deal with all of these things, because I was with a bunch of white people who, like, couldn't handle haggling. There's a lot of bribing. There's a lot of, like, constant, constant negotiation.

• 5:19Dan Pashman?

  And the amazing thing about it is that they don't take it personally.

• 5:22Speaker 01

  No.

• 5:23Dan Pashman?

  Like, my wife and I, like, my wife has family in Israel. We took a cab, of course, three-quarters of the cabs in Israel, the meter's broken.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  Right, right, right.

• 5:29Dan Pashman?

  It's always, the meter's always broken, so you can negotiate the fare.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 5:32Dan Pashman?

  And he's like, oh, my meter's broken. I think this should be like 30 shekels. And it's like, we had paid 15 to get there.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  Right, right, right.

• 5:38Dan Pashman?

  And my wife, she gets really pissed, because she feels like we're getting swindled.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:42Dan Pashman?

  And then, we finally settle on 24 shekels, or whatever it is.

• 5:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:46Dan Pashman?

  And there's a quick beat of silence, and he goes, so where are you guys from? And my wife is like, you know-

• 5:54Speaker 01

  We're mad at you.

• 5:55Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, right.

• 5:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This isn't, like, all fun for us now. We're not buds.

• 5:59Dan Pashman?

  Right.

• 6:00Speaker 01

  No, but it's funny, like, the way I dealt with, I feel like I turn into some sort of weird Hollywood mogul types, like, the agents who are like, hey, buddy, how's it going? Yeah, so this is what we're gonna do, okay? Creating deals, you know what I mean? Like, somehow, I just sold a piece of real estate in the middle. Like, I don't even know what happens to me. But something definitely happens to me in those situations.

• 6:21Dan Pashman?

  Right, right.

• 6:27Dan Pashman?

  This is The Sporkful. It's not for foodies, it's for eaters. I'm Dan Pashman. Each week on our show, we obsess about food to learn more about people.

• 6:36Dan Pashman?

  Negin Farsad grew up in Palm Springs. It's a resort town in Southern California. And for Negin, being Muslim and Iranian, there was a lot of prejudice. Maybe that's why, in her work, she uses comedy to try to disarm people. In a way, she uses jokes the way we sometimes use food here on The Sporkful. It's a comfortable way to get into uncomfortable conversations. One example, she wrote a musical called The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: A Romantic Comedy. On her 2012 stand-up tour, The Muslims Are Coming, she talked about making out with a Jewish guy in a bar.

• 7:09Speaker 02

  And then, at a certain point, the lights turn on, signaling the closure of the bar, right? Now, this is always an awkward moment, because you have to decide whether or not you're gonna make out with this dude, despite knowing exactly what he looks like. So, I asked myself, WWARC-OAD, what would Arafat and Rebein do circa the 1993 Oslo Accords?

• 7:34Speaker 02

  Common self-inquiry. And so, we ended up making out like a couple of peace-loving diplomats.

• 7:44Dan Pashman?

  I wanna, I wanna talk more, but let's, we should, I don't-

• 7:46Speaker 01

  Let's order, yeah.

• 7:48Dan Pashman?

  Hi, how are you? Yeah, we're, yeah, we're ready to order. Let's do one cucumber yogurt. We can get a lot of stuff. We'll take some home. Negin and I agreed to share some mezze. That's like Middle Eastern tapas, small plates. We got cucumber yogurt, eggplant with tahini, and beets. For entrees, she went with lamb kebabs. For me, could I please have a lamb shank tajine?

• 8:08Speaker 03

  Yes. And I would suggest to pair it with a Casablanca sauce, chickpeas, braised onions.

• 8:14Dan Pashman?

  Oh, I pick, I pick one of this, one of these?

• 8:17Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 8:17Dan Pashman?

  Oh, interesting.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  Ooh, that's a tough one. I, yeah, the Casablanca feels the most traditional, no?

• 8:26Dan Pashman?

  Okay, all right, all right, Casablanca. You got it. So, the food at Cafe Mogador is pretty straight-up Middle Eastern and North African, which means it's not really actually what Negin grew up with in an Iranian-American home. These days, most of us probably think of Iran as being in the Middle East. But throughout history, it's really been a crossroads. It does border Iraq and the Persian Gulf on one side, but on the other side, it borders South Asia, Afghanistan and Pakistan. To the north is Central Asia, former Soviet republics like Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan. And Iran also borders Turkey, which I think of as more Mediterranean. So, Persian cuisine brings together all these different influences. They have amazing pastries and incredibly

• 9:08Dan Pashman?

  complex rice and meat dishes with tons of different fresh herbs. At least, that's Negin's family's food heritage. But when she was growing up in Southern California, there was also just a lot of great Mexican food around. And every once in a while, her mom would try to make American dishes.

• 9:25Speaker 01

  There have been some Christmases where my mom will, like, do a turkey, but then she'll sort of mess it up with, like, by throwing, like, like, saffron rice inside the turkey as the stuffing. And I'll be like, what are you doing? Like, let's at least do this right.

• 9:37Dan Pashman?

  But that's probably delicious, isn't it?

• 9:39Speaker 01

  I mean, it's, it's just, it's just very Persian. She takes this, like, all-American thing and turns it to something very Persian, you know what I mean? And, and sometimes you're like, no, lady, I want the stuffing. I want the cranberry in a can, you know what I mean?

• 9:53Dan Pashman?

  Right.

• 9:53Speaker 01

  Um, and so she was trying to kind of make it cuisine, like, make it Persian cuisine somehow. This time around, uh, we had it, we actually had braised lamb over this type of rice, rice dish that comes with lima beans, a bunch of dill, and a bunch of herbs. So, there's like 500 types of herbs, like, in this one rice dish. Uh, and we had that with, like, braised lamb for Christmas.

• 10:15Dan Pashman?

  Sounds really good.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  It was. It was like a good, it was a good Muslim Christmas dish.

• 10:20Dan Pashman?

  You use food a lot in your work to, to, as a, "Look, we're not so scary after all" type of thing.

• 10:28Speaker 01

  Right, right, right, right. My aunt was visiting from Iran and she had never been to California and so we should take her out to eat a taco. And my mom is like, "Oh, that is a good idea, but how is taste taco?" And I was like, "What do you mean, how is taste taco? Like, you've been living here for over 40 fucking years. You don't know how is taste taco?" And, and she's like, "No." And I was so mad. I was so mad. I was like, "You fucking immigrants come to this country and you don't eat Mexican food?" And so I think what's really interesting about food in the American context is that it's everybody's food. Coming to America means you're, you're now eating hamburgers and fries and that's the

• 11:10Speaker 01

  thing that you see in movies or whatever, but you're also ordering Thai takeout. You're also getting a healthy dose of like Italian fare and Chinese food and definitely, definitely if you're in, you know, the southwestern United States, Mexican food.

• 11:26Dan Pashman?

  Right.

• 11:26Speaker 01

  And so that was like a big part of growing up. So I feel like food somehow symbolizes this ridiculous melting pot we're in, in a way that other things don't.

• 11:37Dan Pashman?

  And did you go, did you take your aunt for tacos?

• 11:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, we did.

• 11:40Dan Pashman?

  Tell me that story.

• 11:41Speaker 01

  I was like, "We'll get you an order." She's like, "Just, just one," you know? And I was like, "All right." And she ate it like respectfully and she was like, "It's okay." You know what I mean? She didn't love it. I was like, "Oh, that's weird," you know? I was really trying to get her like love Mexican food as much as I do. I mean, it's just something I grew up with and she just didn't get it. Yeah.

• 12:00Dan Pashman?

  But I think sometimes that's also just a generational thing.

• 12:02Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Because at a certain point, I mean, I think you stop being adventurous with food, which I hope never happens to me.

• 12:09Dan Pashman?

  Yeah. So far, I feel like all the things that I said 20 years ago, I hope never happens to me, they're all happening.

• 12:15Speaker 01

  It's also interesting when you realize that you're not sad about it at all.

• 12:19Dan Pashman?

  Right, right. Like, "Oh, it's okay. This is okay."

• 12:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. I've been to a lot of smelly bars. You know what I mean? I've done a lot of shots, you know? I've talked to a lot of strangers over loud music. Like, I know how to do that. My next frontier is this Netflix special. You know what I mean? On this couch.

• 12:40Dan Pashman?

  Right.

• 12:41Speaker 01

  Oh, that's for this guy.

• 12:44Dan Pashman?

  I got to take a photo of this. This was the lamb shank tagine. A tagine is a clay or ceramic pot with a cone-shaped top. Tagine is also the name of the dish cooked in the pot. It's originally from North Africa, but it's traveled. This lamb shank is so good.

• 13:01Speaker 01

  Very good.

• 13:02Dan Pashman?

  You want to try some? You want to cut you a piece?

• 13:03Speaker 01

  Just like a tiny piece, yeah.

• 13:05Dan Pashman?

  The meat was so soft and tender, sweet and savory with chickpeas, raisins, stewed onions. The only other time in my life I've had lamb tagine was actually in Israel at this fancy restaurant in a gas station. Apparently, that's the thing there. Google best gas station restaurants in Israel. You'll see. Anyway.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  I did an episode of Chelsea Handler's show on Netflix and it was one of these like dinner with Chelsea things. So she had, it was me, Reese Witherspoon and Common and this like stylist person. And they all know each other, so it was like a very weird situation for me to be in because I was clearly like the non-famous person in the group that like had questionable value at the table for them, you know? They were very nice. They were very nice. But like, it was, you know, the whole thing was being filmed and so nobody was actually eating. They were just like pushing pieces of ham from one side of a plate to the other side just because they didn't want to ruin their makeup and stuff like that.

• 14:04Speaker 01

  So there was, it was like one of these really like, you know, ridiculous TV eating situations where you're supposed to be, "Yeah, food and friends, friends and food. Me and my friend Reese Witherspoon."

• 14:17Speaker 01

  Having a meal, you know? And it was just us pushing ham and then, and then making sure our lipstick stayed cute, you know?

• 14:26Dan Pashman?

  This is delicious. I love the flavor and the beets.

• 14:30Speaker 01

  Like, what is it? Do you know?

• 14:32Dan Pashman?

  No, I'm not good at that. I just know I like it.

• 14:35Speaker 01

  They use a lot of, in general, right? Like cumin and shit, turmeric.

• 14:42Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 14:44Dan Pashman?

  Because I am a consummate journalist, I Googled Middle Eastern beets and I did read the first five results because I also don't have all day. And all five recipes were totally different. The only common thread, cumin. So I do feel comfortable saying they have cumin. We finished eating. I ordered an extra lamb shank tagine to go, you know, for my wife and kids and maybe also for me. You want some coffee?

• 15:10Speaker 01

  You know what? That sounds good.

• 15:12Dan Pashman?

  We get two Turkish coffees, please? I just took the liberty of order of declaring your coffee would be Turkish. Is that okay?

• 15:19Speaker 01

  No, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 15:20Dan Pashman?

  Okay.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 15:21Dan Pashman?

  I didn't mean to, uh...

• 15:23Speaker 01

  If I was a really good Iranian girl, I would be able to read our fortunes.

• 15:27Dan Pashman?

  Really?

• 15:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. I grew up on like, "Read my thing," you know? And my aunt being like, "Ugh."

• 15:32Dan Pashman?

  We should explain for people who aren't familiar with the custom. This is idea like you drink a cup of tea or a cup of coffee and then whatever, how are the, the sort of sediment that's left in the cup that you can look at that and, and read someone's future?

• 15:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. So with Iranians, Turkish coffee is really popular for this because it leaves, you know, a huge amount of sediment on the bottom of the cup. So you really, you're forced to stop drinking at a certain point because it's all just...

• 15:58Dan Pashman?

  It's like sludge at the bottom.

• 15:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, sludge. And so, yeah, so my aunt would read my fortune. She would see different images in the, in the grounds and it's all metaphor, you know? So she would be like, "I see an elephant carrying a large package. That means you're going to be very rich," or whatever, you know? And it was a lot of stuff like that.

• 16:18Dan Pashman?

  Did, did they believe it?

• 16:20Speaker 01

  I mean, the, the, it's funny because the one aunt who was the most sought after Turkish coffee grounds reader, she also thought it was ridiculous that she was doing it, but she was so good at it, you know? She would just see things in the thing and then she would show you and you'd be like, "Oh, yeah, I see that." But if you had just given me the cup, I would not have ever seen that on my own.

• 16:40Dan Pashman?

  Right.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  But she still thinks it's ridiculous.

• 16:57Dan Pashman?

  So what does the future hold? Well, more of this podcast for one thing. After the break, Negin and I read each other's coffee grounds and we'll try to figure out what the lamb kebab she ordered has in common with campaign finance reform. Yeah, that old chestnut. Stick around.

• 17:31Dan Pashman?

  It's time to open up a can of advertisements.

• 17:39Dan Pashman?

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• 18:24Dan Pashman?

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• 19:11Dan Pashman?

  Last year, right around this time, I got a new jacket from Quince, a lightweight fall jacket, and it has turned into my favorite jacket. And this is why you need a lightweight jacket and probably a new one because it's time to freshen up your look. You need a lightweight jacket from Quince because the beauty of a lightweight jacket is you can wear it in the early fall, you can wear it in the early spring, but also it goes over a sweater, over a sweatshirt. And then suddenly, your lightweight jacket is a great accessory for pretty much the whole winter. Bottom line, when the temperatures start to drop, Quince makes it easy to build on those everyday staples with versatile layers designed to keep you warm and comfortable all season long. They make elevated everyday essentials using premium materials and designs that are timeless, thoughtfully crafted, and made to be worn again and again. So find your next fall favorites at Quince.

• 19:56Dan Pashman?

  Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was this Porkful. It's the best way to support the show.

• 20:19Dan Pashman?

  Welcome back to another Sporkful Reheat. I'm Dan Pashman. Hey, check out my Instagram when you get a chance. I share what I'm up to, what I'm eating, all of my hot takes that don't always make the cut here on the Sporkful, although I don't know why anybody would want to cut out my rants about the best way to make peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. But the point is that that stuff is on my Instagram, and we have a lot of fun there. Also, sometimes I'm like debating, what should we do for this episode? And I'll put up a poll. It gives you a chance to actually have input into the show. So you can do it right now while you're listening. Follow me on Instagram, @thesporful. Again, that's @thesporful. Thanks.

• 20:55Dan Pashman?

  Now, back to my conversation with Negin Farsad. She hosts a podcast called Fake the Nation. It features what Negin calls "social justice comedy." And if you listen to it, you'll hear that she's not just a comedian who covers current events. She's a total policy nerd. There aren't many people out there who can get as funny and as wonky as Negin. She discussed that combination in a TED Talk.

• 21:17Speaker 01

  Here are some ground rules for social justice comedy. First off, it's not partisan. Okay, this isn't political comedy. This is about justice, and no one is against justice. Why does social justice comedy work? Well, because, first off, it makes you laugh, right? And when you're laughing, you enter into a state of openness. And in that moment of openness, a good social justice comedian can stick in a whole bunch of information, and if they're really skilled, a rectal exam.

• 21:48Speaker 01

  I went and got a dual master's degree in African-American studies and in public policy. And the-

• 21:53Dan Pashman?

  Classic stand-up comedy path. Like, you were on a comedy track clearly from a young age.

• 21:57Speaker 01

  Every comedian has it. Ask them. But, you know, and I think the entire time I was doing those degrees, I was doing stand-up at night. I was doing comedic theater stuff. And so I had one foot out the door, but I was really trying. I really wanted to get it out of my system, you know, because I thought my real path is in public policy. And then I'm going to do this job here, and then I'm going to go probably to DC, and then I'm going to probably go to my district. I'm probably going to run for Congress, and then eventually I'll run for President of the United States, and then that'll be the end. And that's not what happened.

• 22:31Speaker 01

  I took the route where you end up writing jokes about Skittles sometimes. And along the way, I had this job at the Campaign Finance Board in New York City, and the whole point was just to make campaign finance better, to make it equitable for people who can't afford to run for office, to make it possible for them to run for office. And I still really believe in it. I still think we really need campaign finance reform in this country. I still think it's kind of, you know, our whole system is absolutely bananas, but I just didn't want to do the work.

• 23:06Dan Pashman?

  I was trying to think of a good food metaphor, because, like, for instance, we talk in this show a lot about the casting of a certain dish. Like, you're eating kebabs. Now, you got a lamb kebab. Now, you got a little salad on the side with cucumbers and tomatoes. You've got some roast vegetables. You've got rice. You've got the yogurt. But really, the star of this dish is the meat.

• 23:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:26Dan Pashman?

  That's the star.

• 23:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:28Dan Pashman?

  And so the lamb has perhaps an undue amount of influence-

• 23:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:32Dan Pashman?

  -over this dish. It's like the Koch Brothers-

• 23:35Speaker 01

  Right, right, right.

• 23:36Dan Pashman?

  -of your entree.

• 23:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:38Dan Pashman?

  All right. But the counterargument would be like, look, you ordered the lamb kebabs, and everyone knows that lamb is the star on lamb kebabs, and that's just, you know, you can't compete with lamb. This plate is a free-market plate, Negin. Anyone could-

• 23:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:51Dan Pashman?

  Like, if the cucumber were better than the lamb, it would outshine, and that's just freedom. That's freedom, Negin.

• 23:58Speaker 01

  I mean, your metaphor is flawed in so many ways.

• 24:05Speaker 01

  Because in the real world, a cucumber could become a lamb if the cucumber and the lamb had the same opportunities in life. And that's what's wrong with your metaphor.

• 24:18Dan Pashman?

  I want you to run for office, and I want your campaign slogan to be, Negin Farsad, too much lamb.

• 24:26Speaker 01

  Everyone will get it. Everyone will immediately understand.

• 24:29Dan Pashman?

  That's right. That's Communications 101 right there. Yeah.

• 24:33Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. I'd be like taken to the political looney bin.

• 24:38Dan Pashman?

  How's your coffee doing? Are you going to read my coffee for me yet? Take a look at my cup. Can you read my fortune?

• 24:46Speaker 01

  Oh, I see a man holding two microphones.

• 24:55Speaker 01

  You're trying to, I don't know, make every man, woman, and child listen to the Sporkful. I think that's what's going on here.

• 25:03Dan Pashman?

  That sounds more like the present than the future.

• 25:07Speaker 01

  Oh, no, but you also, okay, no, but this, I really do feel like I see some sort of a, it looks like a big bird in that moment where it's gonna take flight. I don't know what that means. But it seems good. You know what I mean? Like, you're about to do something big. You're about to take flight.

• 25:25Dan Pashman?

  All right, great. Can I try to read yours?

• 25:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, mine didn't have as many, let's see.

• 25:30Dan Pashman?

  It looks like mountain peaks going into the ocean, like mountain peaks on the water. I feel like you're going to be on top of one of these mountains overlooking a vast sea.

• 25:40Speaker 01

  Looking like my empire.

• 25:42Dan Pashman?

  Yes.

• 25:42Speaker 01

  Oh, I like that. I like that.

• 25:45Dan Pashman?

  All right.

• 25:46Speaker 01

  This sounds like the kind of fortune I would get from my aunt.

• 25:51Speaker 01

  Like, you're gonna be great. You're gonna be top of the world. Look at you standing on top of the world. It was like stuff like that.

• 25:56Dan Pashman?

  Wow, well, here's to the future.

• 25:58Speaker 01

  Here's to the future. Cheers.

• 26:02Dan Pashman?

  As Negin and I talked, the conversation kept peering back and forth between food and politics. That combination was probably the most authentically Middle Eastern part of the meal. I haven't had a lot of Persian cuisine, but I do love the way they do rice. They cook it so the rice in the bottom of the pot turns golden brown, and it kind of fuses into a thin disk of crispy, chewy goodness. It's called tadik, which literally means "bottom of the pot." When you serve it, you put the steamed rice in a bowl and lay that golden brown disk on top. Then you use a knife to break the disk into shards. Then you use that same knife to fight off family members going for your crispy bits. Traditionally, no leftovers survive. Negin loves tadik, but her own personal favorite is something else.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  There's a dish that I feel like is very Persian. It's called fesenjan, and it's- Have you had it?

• 26:52Dan Pashman?

  Describe it to me.

• 26:53Speaker 01

  So it's, this is crazy. This is one of those moments where like, whose idea was this? It's insane, because they took a bunch of walnuts. You throw them in a blender, and then you slow-braise chicken. Slow-braise? I don't know. Braise? Slow-cook? Whatever.

• 27:10Dan Pashman?

  Braise.

• 27:12Speaker 01

  Slow-braise-cook chicken in the walnut powder, mixed with pomegranate molasses, for a few hours or whatever. And it's really good. It's so specific. It's so interesting. It's also, you know, everyone has their own recipe. It could be sweeter. It could be tartar. It could be more savory. And there's never been an American who I have fed fesenjan to that they haven't liked. I mean, every American I've ever given it to has loved it. So I think it's one of these dishes that could, like, bridge the international diplomacy gap.

• 27:50Dan Pashman?

  That's all we need is more of that.

• 27:51Speaker 01

  All I'm saying is that Rex Tillerson needs to try this dish. You know what I'm saying?

• 27:57Dan Pashman?

  If only he had some power.

• 28:00Speaker 01

  Only he was remotely relevant.

• 28:04Dan Pashman?

  Coming up, I talk with Negin about something she's dubbed "the bacon test." That's after the break. Stick around.

• 28:13Speaker 04

  Time to cook up some advertisements.

• 28:20Speaker 04

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• 30:26Dan Pashman?

  Welcome back. Let's return now to my conversation with comedian Nagin Farsad. Nagin keeps returning to that idea of using food to bridge political divides. And she uses food for commentary, too. Last year, she made a web video called "The Bacon Test", where she hung out in a park with a platter of bacon.

• 30:43Speaker 02

  Hey, are you Muslim? No, you want to prove it? We got some bacon right here. You know, because Muslims don't eat pork, so they would test the test. Are you Muslim? No. Prove it. She's not Muslim, guys. We, this is, this is, we're safe right here. Any red-blooded American who rejects this bacon should really go on the Muslim registry. It's just like a bridal registry, except for you're not going to get a crock pot in the mail or anything, or just you might get surveillance for the rest of your life. We have found a couple of Muslims who are signing the registry. We are making America safer right now. This is so exciting, guys. I am terrified of you.

• 31:28Dan Pashman?

  The payoff of "The Bacon Test" video comes when Negin, a Muslim herself, starts digging into the bacon.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  So my parents definitely never ate pork. Pork was never in the house. It was completely forbidden, right? Even if you're not practicing, like, just growing up in a secular Muslim household, you just are not eating pork. That's just a thing. But I remember, like, my first encounter with bacon. And it was at my friend Jenny's house, growing up. And Jenny's whole family, they were like, super traditional, American, fun, like sloppy joes, bacon on Sundays, you know what I mean, that whole scene. And I loved going over there, in part because it was that scene, you know? And because I could get bacon. And, and ham, you know what I mean, like a nice ham sandwich.

• 32:17Speaker 01

  All that stuff that was completely forbidden, and I never, I mean, I was very secretive about it.

• 32:22Dan Pashman?

  Your parents didn't know.

• 32:22Speaker 01

  Obviously, I did not tell my parents, because I thought I would get in trouble. And now it's one of those things where, like, I still, if I eat bacon, it feels like I'm doing something wrong. I still have that relationship with bacon as an adult.

• 32:37Dan Pashman?

  But it seems to not stop you.

• 32:38Speaker 01

  Oh, no. It definitely doesn't stop me. Like, if I, if I ever turn into, like, super observant, practicing Maz, I don't know that I could ever give up the bacon. Also, I feel like, you know, if Allah knew that they, that it's all cleaned up, you know what I mean?

• 32:55Dan Pashman?

  Right.

• 32:56Speaker 01

  He'd be like, "Yeah, that's fine."

• 32:57Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, I feel the same way about the kosher rules. It's like, they made those calls a long time ago.

• 33:00Speaker 01

  A long time ago.

• 33:02Dan Pashman?

  Things have changed.

• 33:03Speaker 01

  I mean, I like to think of, like, Muslim God as being super reasonable. So, which is not, like, the popular perception of Muslim God, so.

• 33:10Dan Pashman?

  Is it not? I had not heard about that. Well, isn't it funny that, and I think this is true in Jewish and Muslim culture?

• 33:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:18Dan Pashman?

  That, that they're both, like, it's such a culture of negotiation. Everything is negotiable. There's a workaround for everything.

• 33:25Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 33:26Dan Pashman?

  Like, every rule has an exception.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 33:29Dan Pashman?

  And, and so it's, it's funny that both cultures have these certain rules that are so ironclad. I mean, I guess that's the nature of religion. But it does make sense, based on the way that our cultures are.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:42Dan Pashman?

  That our gods would be like, "Well, how much is it worth to you?"

• 33:46Speaker 01

  Right, right, right, right, right. Exactly, exactly.

• 33:49Dan Pashman?

  "We gotta work something out here. How many shekels? Come on."

• 33:51Speaker 01

  And I, yeah, because I think, and I think, like, you know, here's the funny thing about, like, whether you're into a god or not, you're always bargaining with yourself for stuff like that, right? You're like, "I'll have the extra piece of bacon, but then tomorrow, I'll have, like, a salad for lunch." You know what I mean? Like, those are bargains that we're always making in our head. And I think, like, as, you know, as long as you're just, like, a good person, you know what I mean? Get the pork chop, but be a good, but don't kill anybody. You know what I mean? Like, I think that's the main thing.

• 34:20Dan Pashman?

  Wait a second. Slap, hang on, let me, I gotta need a pen. I need a pen, let me.

• 34:24Speaker 01

  No, no murder, yes pork chop.

• 34:26Dan Pashman?

  Okay, all right.

• 34:27Speaker 01

  Basically.

• 34:28Dan Pashman?

  I'll join that church.

• 34:29Speaker 01

  That's all of religion. You know what I mean? That's all of religion. No murder, yes pork chop.

• 34:56Dan Pashman?

  That's Negin Farsad. She hosts the podcast Fake the Nation. It features a rotating cast of comedians and news people with episode titles ranging from things like "America is Immigrants" to "Swimming in a Sea of Diet Cokes." It's a great show. Again, it's called Fake the Nation. Negin is also the author of "How to Make White People Laugh," available wherever books are sold. And her film "Third Street Blackout" is on Amazon. It's a romantic comedy starring Janine Garofalo, Ed Weeks, John Hodgman, and more. This show is produced by Ann, Sandy, and me. Peter Clowney is our editor. Music help from Black Label Music. Special thanks to Cafe Mogador in the East Village. The food was so, so good. As was the lamb shank I brought home to my family.

• 35:38Dan Pashman?

  The Sporkful is a production of Stitcher. Our executive producers are Chris Bannon and Jenny Radelit. Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman.

• 35:44Speaker 06

  And I'm Andrew from Downey, California, reminding you to eat more, eat better, and eat more better.

• 36:02Dan Pashman?

  This reheat was produced by Gianna Palmer. The team that produces The Sporkful today includes me, along with managing producer Emma Morgenstern. And senior producer

• 36:11Speaker 06

  Andres O'Hara.

• 36:12Dan Pashman?

  Our engineer is

• 36:13Speaker 07

  Jared O'Connell.

• 36:14Dan Pashman?

  Music help from Black Label Music. The Sporkful is a production of SiriusXM Podcasts. Our executive producer is Camille Stanley. If you want to hear new episodes of The Sporkful ad-free, subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts Plus on Apple Podcasts, or visit siriusxm.com/podcastsplus to listen on Spotify or another app of your choice. Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman.

• 36:43Speaker 04

  This podcast is supported by Nurtac ODT, Remedy Pant. We know you didn't ask for an interruption, but migraine doesn't wait for the right moment to interrupt either. It just barges in, takes your time, and throws everything off. So, when migraine takes your time, take Nurtac. It's for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura in adults. Nurtac can provide pain relief in two hours, which can last up to two days. Ask your healthcare provider if Nurtac is right for you, because your time is for you, not migraine. Don't take if allergic to Nurtac ODT. Allergic reactions can occur even days after use. Get help right away for trouble breathing, rash, swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or throat. High blood pressure and Raynaud's syndrome can occur.

• 37:25Speaker 04

  Get help for high blood pressure, numbness, coolness, pain, or color changes in fingers and toes. Common side effect is nausea. For full prescribing information, call 1-833-4-NURTC or visit Nurtac.com. All right, back to your podcast, playlist, or whatever's keeping you going today.

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