This Is Your Brain On Cheesesteak (Reheat)

Why do our brains go crazy for the melted cheese on Philly's iconic cheesesteak? What is it about scrapple’s crispy fried goodness? How does surface-area-to-volume ratio make the roast pork sandwich more delicious?

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dan Pashman?

  As someone who has been lucky enough to go to Napa Valley, I can tell you, it's everything people say it is. Beautiful scenery, quaint, beautiful towns, and phenomenal food and drink everywhere you go. I don't even know that much about wine, but I know that every glass of wine I had in Napa Valley was excellent. I mean, there's no bad glass of wine and no bad meal. Choose between hundreds of wineries, tasting rooms, and chef-led restaurants from a low-key lunch on a vineyard terrace to a full tasting menu paired by the winemaker. Plan your trip at visitnapavalley.com. I grew up on Lando Lakes cheese. I still remember going to the supermarket deli counter with my mom and her ordering Lando Lakes American cheese. And now, Lando Lakes cheese and butter are a huge part of my home. There are so many easy weeknight recipes using Lando

• 0:44Dan Pashman?

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• 1:12Dan Pashman?

  Hey, it's Dan here, and let me tell you, this reheat has to be one of the nerdiest Sporkful episodes that we have ever done. And I think about this one all the time because it really delves into the relationship between the foods we eat and crave and our brain chemistry. And in order to understand all that, I spent a day running all around Philadelphia to sample the classics: cheese steaks, of course, Scrapple, and the underappreciated Philly pork sandwich. And then I sit down with a researcher at Philly's Monell Chemical Senses Center to talk about the science of appetite and why everything I just ate was so friggin' good. This one's gonna stick with you. Now, remember, if there's an episode of the Sporkful you want us to pull out of the deep freezer and reheat, send me an email

• 1:55Dan Pashman?

  or voice memo to [email protected]. Tell me your first name, location, what episode you want to hear, and why. Thanks so much, and enjoy.

• 2:08Dan Pashman?

  Ladies and gentlemen, as I'm coming up, we'll be Philadelphia, Philadelphia's 30th Street. Please make sure you have all your personal belongings. Watch your step. Once again, this is Philadelphia. Please watch your step.

• 2:20Dan Pashman?

  So John, one of the waitresses sent me over to you to talk to you because they said you come here every week to get Scrapple, is that right?

• 2:26Speaker 01

  That's right. There's nothing more Philly than Scrapple and then get it well done.

• 2:30Dan Pashman?

  Imagine how you're talking to someone who's never been to Philly, never had Scrapple. I want you to describe it to this person.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  Scrapple's a...

• 2:40Speaker 01

  It's hard to describe. You gotta taste it. It's better than bacon.

• 2:45Dan Pashman?

  This is the Sporkful. It's not for foodies, it's for eaters. I'm Dan Pashman. Each week on our show, we obsess about food to learn more about people. Today on the show, we run around Philadelphia eating the city's most iconic foods: Scrapple, pork sandwiches, and of course, cheese steaks. Then, we're gonna take samples of those foods back to Philly's Monell Chemical Senses Center to talk with a scientist about what makes them so delicious. Why do our brains go crazy for the melted cheese on Cheesesteak? What is it about the texture of Scrapple's crispy fried goodness? And how does surface area to volume ratio make the pork sandwich more flavorful? Wrap this episode up in a paper bag, and the grease will soak right through.

• 3:33Dan Pashman?

  My producer, Ann, and I hopped on the train and headed down to Philly. On the ride, we talked strategy, specifically the proper way to order a classic Philly cheesesteak with Cheez Whiz.

• 3:43Speaker 02

  Philly cheesesteak. Is that a classic Philly cheesesteak?

• 3:45Dan Pashman?

  It's probably. I mean, I think they, we gotta learn a little bit about the right way to order it, which is intimidating to me, but I think it's just whiz. You just say whiz, and then they know.

• 3:53Speaker 02

  I gotta get, I gotta get over that. That just sounds so wrong.

• 3:58Dan Pashman?

  Yeah. If you want onions, you say wit.

• 4:01Speaker 02

  You say what?

• 4:02Dan Pashman?

  Like with, but as if you like have a thick Philly accent.

• 4:06Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 4:07Dan Pashman?

  So it's just like, if you want a cheesesteak with onions, with Cheez Whiz, you say whiz wit. And that's all you have to say, and they'll know.

• 4:14Speaker 02

  Wow. This is like a whole different language, like code.

• 4:17Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, aren't you taking Hindi?

• 4:19Speaker 02

  I am, yeah.

• 4:20Dan Pashman?

  That's not gonna help you here.

• 4:21Speaker 02

  No, not one bit.

• 4:23Dan Pashman?

  We stepped off the train, two intrepid eaters trying to find our way in a foreign land.

• 4:38Dan Pashman?

  The cheesesteak was stop number three. First stop, Redding Terminal Market. It's a sprawling indoor wonderland where you can get just about every type of food in Philly all in one spot. We made our way to the Down Home Diner, which is basically an old-school diner plopped into a corner of this huge market. It's got a jukebox, shiny metallic finishes everywhere, cozy booths, and a row of stools at a counter. And we went there to get one food: Scrapple. I talked to a middle-aged woman named Susan, who was in from Abington, PA. Do you make Scrapple at home?

• 5:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, I do.

• 5:11Dan Pashman?

  Tell me how you make it.

• 5:12Speaker 03

  Comes in a bar.

• 5:13Dan Pashman?

  Oh, so you buy it like pre-turn into a bar?

• 5:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:16Dan Pashman?

  And then you like fry it up, basically?

• 5:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, pretty much.

• 5:19Dan Pashman?

  And do you know what's in the bar? Or is it better to not know?

• 5:22Speaker 03

  I, I kind of know a little bit of what's in there because I did a, when I was like in fourth grade, they did it, they took us to a meatpacking plant. Couldn't eat hot dogs for a long time after that, but you know, they kind of just said that everything that they don't put in the hot dogs goes in the Scrapple. So it's kind of like...

• 5:41Dan Pashman?

  I'm gonna try some Scrapple. Do you want to try a taste of my Scrapple? You can tell me how it measures up?

• 5:45Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 5:45Dan Pashman?

  All right, all right, cool. Okay, I'm gonna cut in here. Enough suspense. I'm gonna tell you what Scrapple is. It's made of pork scraps and trimmings, fat, salt, buckwheat flour, and cornmeal, all pureed together, so it's one consistency. A single piece is shaped like a thick slice of bread. Sort of looks like if you took a block of stuffing and fried it. It's crispy on the outside, soft and creamy on the inside, almost like pan-fried polenta, if you've ever had polenta. Okay, back to the diner.

• 6:14Speaker 03

  It's crispy, but it's soft inside, which is the way I like it.

• 6:18Dan Pashman?

  It's sort of just like a block of fried salty fat.

• 6:21Speaker 03

  My, my arteries might be hardening, but my stomach goes, thank you.

• 6:31Dan Pashman?

  Next up, the Philly roast pork sandwich at Denix. Now, the roast pork sandwich is not as well-known nationally as the cheesesteak, but it may be just as beloved in the city. It's thin sliced roast pork, provolone cheese, and broccoli rabe, which is a crunchy, stringy, somewhat bitter member of the broccoli family. And the real key is, they pour the juices from the pork on top of the sandwich, and that soaks into the bread. All right, Philly roast pork sandwich from Denix. I'm going in.

• 7:03Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 7:04Dan Pashman?

  It's really good. I need to eat more.

• 7:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, I really like that bitter edge, the broccoli.

• 7:10Dan Pashman?

  I will say, this sandwich does prove my, the validity of my objection to all sandwiches on hinged buns.

• 7:17Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 7:17Dan Pashman?

  Because they take the hinged bread, they fill it from bottom to top. They go provolone, then pork, then broccoli rabe. It's really hard. They fill it in that V formation, then you kind of, if you can eat it in the V, you're not getting an ideal experience. If you turn it sideways, now the sandwich is left to right, and you have broccoli rabe on one side and provolone on the other. It's very hard to get a bite with the broccoli rabe and the cheese all in the same bite without rearranging it. Are you, Ann, are you eating the broccoli rabe out of the sandwich?

• 7:47Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 7:49Dan Pashman?

  After we finished, we talked to some other eaters at Denix. What's your name?

• 7:53Speaker 04

  My name is Carolyn.

• 7:54Dan Pashman?

  And what's your name? Shamika. Shamika. How often do you guys come here?

• 7:58Speaker 04

  I come only two times a year because I, because I work actually in King of Pressure. So I'm down here shopping. I said, I wasn't going home without this pork sandwich with the broccoli rabe and the sharp provolone cheese.

• 8:11Dan Pashman?

  What do you think makes the one here especially good?

• 8:14Speaker 04

  It's the best I ever had.

• 8:15Dan Pashman?

  Why?

• 8:17Speaker 04

  Because I love it.

• 8:19Dan Pashman?

  Do you ever, you know, one thing I was noticing, because I just ate one, is I love, like, over time, it sits and the juice gets into the bread.

• 8:26Speaker 04

  I love mine's wet.

• 8:27Dan Pashman?

  Do you order it extra wet?

• 8:28Speaker 04

  Yes. I just did. I can't wait to bite it.

• 8:32Dan Pashman?

  Do you think it would make sense to order it with like extra juice on the side, and you could dip it in?

• 8:35Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 8:37Dan Pashman?

  No, Shamika says no, why not? It's not the same. I like it nice, silky and wet. Can a Philly pork sandwich ever be too wet? No.

• 8:46Speaker 04

  No.

• 8:47Dan Pashman?

  I gotta tell you, before I had one, I would have maybe disagreed with you. I would have said, but what if it starts to fall apart? What if the bread turns soggy? Now that I've had one, I think you're right, it can't get too wet.

• 8:58Speaker 04

  You're right about that.

• 9:05Dan Pashman?

  Before we left, we talked to one of the chefs at Denix. He said if he's bringing home a pork sandwich for dinner, he'll make it at four in the afternoon, so it's got time to get nice and saturated before he eats it around seven. Oh, man, that sounds good. Anyway, we left there and headed over to Sonny's in Old City for cheese steaks. I talked with the manager, Christina.

• 9:27Dan Pashman?

  What do you think makes Sonny's cheesesteaks better than other cheesesteaks?

• 9:30Speaker 05

  Hmm, it's definitely our ribeye meat, I would say. Our meat, you don't have to add anything, is also the bread. If you have fresh Italian bakery bread, you're good to go.

• 9:40Dan Pashman?

  And one of the things I noticed is that you guys warm the bread before you put the meat on it, is that right?

• 9:45Speaker 05

  Uh, yes.

• 9:46Dan Pashman?

  It's like, it's getting toasted a little bit over there?

• 9:48Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 9:49Dan Pashman?

  To me, that's so important, because I don't like having a hot, when you have-

• 9:52Speaker 05

  Sandwich on a cold bun. Exactly. I might as well just go get a cold, cold-cut sandwich then.

• 9:56Dan Pashman?

  Right.

• 9:57Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 9:57Dan Pashman?

  That's right.

• 9:58Speaker 05

  So it's just, everything just all blends in together with the cheese, the hot bread, the juicy meat. It's just a great sandwich.

• 10:06Dan Pashman?

  Then I talked to a guy there named Drew. He wasn't eating anything. He said he's going through a vegetarian phase. He was keeping a friend company. But he had plenty of opinions about cheesesteak. Which cheese do you go with? As an African-American male living in Philadelphia, I have to say American cheese is the way to go. Well, it's funny, because the cheese is a, is a big point of contention. I actually think this is a, is a great topic to bring up. Yeah, please tell me. With, with race relations, you know, sparking all worldwide. Yeah, I'm gonna sit down. Let's talk.

• 10:38Dan Pashman?

  Go on. Essentially, I, I believe that the white man has a, a predisposition towards Cheez

• 10:47Dan Pashman?

  The African American male, some reason, we can only eat American cheese, man. So you think that Philly cheesesteak preferences break down along racial lines? It gets that serious. It gets that serious. I don't get the whole cheese whiz thing. I don't understand why it was even started. What other thing do you put cheese whiz on? Like really bad nachos at a ballpark, maybe? And that's asking for a, you know, a two-hour bathroom shirt.

• 11:23Dan Pashman?

  Hi, how are you?

• 11:24Speaker 05

  Hi.

• 11:25Dan Pashman?

  I think I'm ready to order.

• 11:26Speaker 05

  Are you real?

• 11:27Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, could I please have one whiz with, one American with?

• 11:31Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 11:32Dan Pashman?

  And one provolone with?

• 11:33Speaker 05

  You got it.

• 11:35Dan Pashman?

  Pretty soon, the cheesesteaks arrived, and it was time to eat. See, and look here. So if people can picture this, these cheesesteaks have been served to us in those sort of paper boats. And with the American and provolone, the cheese is starting to cool and congeal a bit. With the cheese whiz, it's actually flowing downward and pooling. There's a little puddle of cheese whiz sauce. It's sort of like meat fat mixed with cheese whiz pooling at the bottom of the boat. There's a big difference in consistency.

• 12:04Speaker 02

  This is gonna sound bad. I think I like the whiz better.

• 12:06Dan Pashman?

  Why?

• 12:08Speaker 02

  Texture. It gets in the crannies and the nooks. It's like everywhere.

• 12:12Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, it's funny you're saying that because I came in here, I used to be totally against the whiz. And the provolone, you would think is sort of like, it has the most flavor. But the problem, here's the thing with the provolone, tell me what you think of this, Ann. I feel like the provolone tastes more like a steak sandwich with cheese on it.

• 12:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, I agree. Because it's like two separate entities.

• 12:29Dan Pashman?

  Right. It doesn't taste like a cheese steak. And a cheese steak, you're gonna think of it less as meat with cheese on top, more like a cheese sauce.

• 12:39Speaker 02

  The question is, why is cheese whiz so appealing to human taste buds and stomachs?

• 12:45Dan Pashman?

  I don't know, but I know someone who does.

• 12:51Dan Pashman?

  Oh, man, what a segue. We've got some real audio professionals running this show. When I figure out who they are, I'll tell you. Coming up, I will take samples of Scrapple from the Down Home Diner, pork sandwich from the Nyx, and cheesesteak from Sunny's, and bring them all to Philly's Monell Chemical Senses Center. I'll ask a scientist why cheese whiz tastes so good on Cheesesteak despite all rational arguments to the contrary. Stick around.

• 13:29Dan Pashman?

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• 14:14Dan Pashman?

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• 15:01Dan Pashman?

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• 15:46Dan Pashman?

  Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns, now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was this Porkful. It's the best way to support the show.

• 16:05Speaker 03

  And now, a delicious word from our sponsors.

• 16:09Dan Pashman?

  It's very good.

• 16:17Dan Pashman?

  Welcome back to another Sporkful Reheat. I'm Dan Pashman. A lot of times, people want to ask me, like, oh, what are you cooking? What restaurants are you going to? They ask Emma and Andres and the whole Sporkful team the same questions. Well, it turns out, we provide a listener service to you that includes that information. It's our newsletter. We don't send it out all the time, we're not gonna spam you, we're just gonna send you useful information, recipes, restaurant information, links to articles that we're reading, shows that we're watching. And guess what else? You'll be automatically entered into giveaways for cookbooks featured on the show, as long as you live in the US or Canada. That's also where I'll email you to tell you about, like, special sales happening on this Folini website by discounts on pasta and stuff. So there are a lot of benefits, and you can sign up right now while you're listening. Head on over to sporkful.com/newsletter to sign up today.

• 17:00Dan Pashman?

  Again, that's sporkful.com/newsletter. Thanks.

• 17:06Dan Pashman?

  Now, back to Philly. I took all the foods we ate around the city, cheesesteak, Scrapple, and that amazing pork sandwich, to Dr. Marcy Pelshaw. She's a researcher at the Monell Chemical Senses Center. She studies where our food preferences and cravings come from. Her work covers everything from picky eating and food addiction to asparagus pee. Or, as she put it in a 2010 academic paper, "Excretion and Perception of a Characteristic Odor in Urine After Asparagus Ingestion: A Psychophysical and Genetic Study." I'll go ahead and translate the title, "Asparagus Pee: What's the Deal?"

• 17:44Speaker 03

  Okay, the deal is, some people notice a smell that's sometimes described as rotten cabbage, sometimes vegetable soup, but a change in the odor of their urine after they eat asparagus. So we did a study where people peed before the asparagus and after the asparagus. And then, not only did everyone donate pee, but then they came and smelled everybody else's pee. And we were able to show that some people are, actually have a enhanced ability to detect this odor.

• 18:24Speaker 03

  And other people don't get it that much unless you point it out to them, and then they kind of get it.

• 18:30Dan Pashman?

  But does everyone get asparagus pee when they eat asparagus?

• 18:34Speaker 03

  We think so.

• 18:36Dan Pashman?

  Dr. Pelshaw is Philly-born and bred, so she grew up with all the foods I brought her.

• 18:41Speaker 03

  My father grew up in South Philly on Fourth Street, right, you know, near Jim's Bakes, which is one of the, I don't know if it was there when he was a kid. But anyway, he grew up in South Philly, and he never did cheese whiz. But that is the Philadelphia standard these days.

• 19:04Dan Pashman?

  What kind of cheese do you put on your cheesesteak?

• 19:06Speaker 03

  I like a mild provolone.

• 19:09Dan Pashman?

  Marcy, I want you to try a bite with a cheese whiz.

• 19:11Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 19:15Speaker 03

  The cheese whiz is sort of like gravy.

• 19:19Dan Pashman?

  I gotta tell you, so Ann and I went to get the cheesesteaks after having eaten Scrapple and the Philly pork sandwich.

• 19:28Dan Pashman?

  And neither one of us was especially hungry. And neither of us was expecting to especially like the cheese whiz one.

• 19:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:35Dan Pashman?

  Cheese whiz is kind of gross. But we both came away from it liking the cheese whiz the best. And I think what helped us is that we thought of it in a different way. When you do it with provolone, it's like a steak sandwich with cheese melted on it.

• 19:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:48Dan Pashman?

  When you do it with cheese whiz, it's a cheesesteak. The cheese and the steak become one. It's really more like a sauce.

• 19:56Speaker 03

  I can see your point, yes.

• 19:59Dan Pashman?

  Why is cheese so much more delicious when it's melted?

• 20:02Speaker 03

  Well, anything warm releases more aroma than when it's cold. And you get much more flavor from the cheese. I also think that melted cheese sort of, I don't know, somehow the fat becomes more.

• 20:21Dan Pashman?

  The oil comes to the surface. The oils of the cheese come to the surface. And what about something like cheese whiz, something that's just like totally or almost completely artificial? That's wouldn't appear to be evolutionary, and we didn't evolve to love, you know, there was no cheese whiz in caveman days.

• 20:36Speaker 03

  No, no.

• 20:37Dan Pashman?

  So why do we love cheese whiz?

• 20:39Speaker 03

  Salt and fat, you know, why do we love Nutella? Sugar and fat.

• 20:44Dan Pashman?

  Sugar, right.

• 20:45Speaker 03

  You know, and chocolate.

• 20:48Dan Pashman?

  Do you eat a little Scrapple?

• 20:49Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 20:50Dan Pashman?

  With Scrapple, it seems to me that texture is such a huge part of it. It's crispy on the outside and it's soft, like polenta.

• 21:00Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 21:00Dan Pashman?

  In the middle.

• 21:01Speaker 03

  Right.

• 21:03Dan Pashman?

  What is it about crisp? What is it about that texture that makes us love it so?

• 21:10Speaker 03

  Well, there's been speculation by scientists. One guy was interested in why people like ice cream so much. He came up with this idea of dynamic contrast. The idea is that people like textures that change while they're in your mouth, ice cream. Cream would be something that you'd put in as a solid, it would melt. Or you can have a mixture of textures in each bite. And Scrapple is a perfect example of that. You get the crunchy and the squishy together.

• 21:50Speaker 03

  That's why people like their cereal more when they first put it in the bowl and put the milk on.

• 21:57Dan Pashman?

  Wait, but you know what I like to do sometimes with cereal is to put some in, pour a little milk in, let it sit for a couple of minutes, and then put more cereal in, and then mix them together and eat it right away.

• 22:07Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 22:07Dan Pashman?

  And then you have dynamic contrast.

• 22:09Speaker 03

  Exactly, more dynamic contrast. Why didn't everybody else think of this?

• 22:16Dan Pashman?

  Can I be an associate member of Monell now because of that idea?

• 22:18Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 22:21Dan Pashman?

  What else? Talk to me more about Scrapple and the sensation of it. You know, it's like, it just seems like a salt and fat delivery system.

• 22:30Speaker 03

  Yes, it is. What happens after you eat something like Scrapple is that it's a little, it's sort of rewarding, you're not necessarily aware of it.

• 22:40Dan Pashman?

  Like it activates the pleasure centers?

• 22:42Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 22:43Dan Pashman?

  So after a meal, your brain sort of registers, okay, I liked this, I didn't like that. Let's remember to go back to that thing again. But like after you eat a lot, like after you, I don't know, let's say, run around Philadelphia, eating cheese steaks, pork sandwiches and Scrapple, like some people here just recently did. And you feel like you ate too much and you feel kind of tired and gross. Why doesn't your brain remember that and stop you from doing that the next time?

• 23:09Speaker 03

  Well, adults have kind of learned to, to limit themselves.

• 23:16Dan Pashman?

  But it's an intellectual limit.

• 23:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 23:20Dan Pashman?

  Right, you're using your conscious brain to tell your subconscious brain to shut up. Yeah, but that's hard.

• 23:26Speaker 03

  Yes, it is, it is. Now, if you become nauseous, really nauseous, you may learn an aversion to one or more of the components of the meal.

• 23:41Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, that happened to me with tequila at my senior prom.

• 23:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, but did you stop drinking completely?

• 23:47Dan Pashman?

  No, but I couldn't drink tequila for years.

• 23:50Speaker 03

  Right.

• 23:50Dan Pashman?

  Like even the smell of it made me nauseous.

• 23:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I did my dissertation on these flavor aversions and they're very long lasting because people can't get near enough to the food to try it again. If they can make themselves try it again, the aversion reverses very quickly.

• 24:12Dan Pashman?

  Coming up, Dr. Pelshaw and I sample some Philly Italian pork sandwich. Again, in the name of science. That's after the break, stick around. Ooh, advertisements, yummy.

• 24:26Speaker 03

  Fidelity Active ETFs have the flexibility to shift and transform as markets do the same. So instead of just riding an index, they can seek to outperform it by adapting to market conditions and pursuing new opportunities as they emerge. And while you get the potential outperformance of an actively managed fund, you can still buy and sell it on your terms, just like any other ETF. Markets can change in real time. Make sure your ETF can too. Learn more at fidelity.com/activeetfs. Before investing in any exchange traded fund, you should consider its investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. Contact Fidelity for a prospectus, an offering circular, or if available, a summary prospectus containing this information. Read it carefully.

• 25:10Speaker 03

  While active ETFs offer the potential to outperform an index, these products may more significantly trail an index as compared with passive ETFs. ETFs are subject to market fluctuation and the risks of their underlying investments. ETFs are subject to management fees and other expenses. Fidelity Broker Services LLC, member NYSE, SIPC.

• 25:28Speaker 03

  This podcast is supported by Nurtac ODT. Remedy Pant. We know you didn't ask for an interruption, but migraine doesn't wait for the right moment to interrupt either. It just barges in, takes your time and throws everything off. So when migraine takes your time, take Nurtac. It's for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura in adults. Nurtac can provide pain relief in two hours, which can last up to two days. Ask your healthcare provider if Nurtac is right for you because your time is for you, not migraine. Don't take if allergic to Nurtac ODT. Allergic reactions can occur even days after use. Get help right away for trouble breathing, rash, swelling of face, mouth, tongue or throat. High blood pressure and Raynaud's syndrome can occur. Get help for high blood pressure, numbness, coolness, pain

• 26:12Speaker 03

  or color changes in fingers and toes. Common side effect is nausea. For full prescribing information, call 1-833-4-NUR-TAC or visit Nurtac.com. All right, back to your podcast, playlist or whatever's keeping you going today. With the Discover Cash Back Card, it's payback time when you earn cash back on everyday purchases. Activate and earn 5% cash back at different categories each quarter on up to $1,500 in purchases.

• 26:40Dan Pashman?

  That's 5% cash back at different places each quarter, like grocery stores, on gas and at restaurants. It pays to discover. Terms apply. See discover.com/5 for details.

• 27:00Dan Pashman?

  Welcome back. Let's return now to my conversation with Dr. Marcy Pelshaw of the Monell Chemical Census Center. Let's move on, let's eat some, we have a bite of Italian pork sandwich for me?

• 27:12Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 27:13Dan Pashman?

  Now, one of the things that the guy at Denix told me, he said the sandwich is better when it sits for a little while, when it gets all soggy like this.

• 27:20Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm. Well, I can see, this is a texture thing. You know, the crust is still a little bit crusty.

• 27:27Dan Pashman?

  Still a tiny bit crusty on the outside.

• 27:29Speaker 03

  The bread has soaked up some of the flavor from the pork. Cutting the pork thinly is very important. And in a cheesesteak also.

• 27:38Dan Pashman?

  Why is that important on a texture level in terms of perception?

• 27:41Speaker 03

  It's, it's almost like caviar, you know, all these little bits in every bite.

• 27:48Dan Pashman?

  Well, doesn't it also give you more flavor? Because there's more surface area of pork to land on your tongue.

• 27:53Speaker 03

  Excellent, maybe you can be a member here at Monell.

• 27:59Dan Pashman?

  Yes, I'm working, I'm gonna get the jacket and everything.

• 28:05Dan Pashman?

  Hmm, oh my God.

• 28:07Speaker 03

  And you know, so you have the texture of the broccoli, Rob, even though it's cooked. Now, a little, little touch of bitter, the, the salt, the fat, those little flakes of pork, not too much work chewing. Isn't that wonderful?

• 28:28Dan Pashman?

  And this gets to one of the bedrock issues that we talk about in The Sporkful, which is the debate between bite consistency and bite variety.

• 28:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:36Dan Pashman?

  So now, there's not always a right and a wrong. Some foods you want bite consistency, some foods you want bite variety.

• 28:43Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 28:44Dan Pashman?

  One of the things that I think people who like bite variety argue for is that they say they kind of like a surprise. Or they like that differentiation. They like, oh, that was a bite with a lot of cheese. What can you tell me about the kind of person who is more likely to prefer that eating experience?

• 29:03Speaker 03

  I actually have some ideas about that.

• 29:06Dan Pashman?

  Yes, please.

• 29:07Speaker 03

  Um, again, you know, people differ in, in how much they like new foods. And people who don't like new foods worry a lot about getting surprised. There are other people for whom, you know, oh, let's go to dim sum. That's the best thing ever.

• 29:31Dan Pashman?

  And they like to bite into a dumpling not knowing what they're about to get. And where do those differences come from? Is that because of the way that we were raised or is it partly in our DNA?

• 29:41Speaker 03

  Yes. Yeah, it comes from both.

• 29:45Dan Pashman?

  All right, well, Marcy Pelshaw, associate member and researcher at the Monell Chemical Census Center. Thank you so much.

• 29:52Speaker 03

  It's been a pleasure.

• 29:53Dan Pashman?

  You can keep that cheesesteak.

• 29:54Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 30:04Dan Pashman?

  I gotta tell you, by the time we were finished recording this episode, I felt pretty full and gross. But after listening back to it all just now, I am starving. I hope you are too. One quick note here, we taped this episode a few years back and since then, Dr. Pelshaw has retired from the Monell Center. But she's still living in Philly, which means she's still got easy access to pork sandwiches.

• 30:29Dan Pashman?

  This show is produced by me along with senior producer.

• 30:32Speaker 02

  Anne Sannie.

• 30:33Dan Pashman?

  And associate producer. Gofen Putubwale. We get music help from Black Label Music. The Sporkful is a production of Stitcher. Our executive producers are Chris Bannon and Daisy Rosario. Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman.

• 30:45Speaker 03

  Now I'm kind of enjoying some Philadelphia, reminding you to eat more, eat better and eat more better.

• 31:06Dan Pashman?

  This reheat was produced by.

• 31:08Speaker 02

  Gianna Palmer.

• 31:09Dan Pashman?

  The team that produces The Sporkful today includes me along with managing producer.

• 31:13Speaker 02

  Emma Morgenstern.

• 31:14Dan Pashman?

  And senior producer. Andres O'Hara. Our technical director is. Jared O'Connell. Music help from Black Label Music. The Sporkful is a production of Sirius XM Podcasts. Our executive producer is Camille Stanley. And hey, did you know you can listen to The Sporkful on the Sirius XM app? Yes, the Sirius XM app, it has all your favorite podcasts, plus over 200 ad-free music channels curated by genre and era, plus live sports coverage. Does your podcasting app have that? And there's interviews with A-list stars and so much more. It's everything you want in a podcast app and music app all rolled into one. And right now, Sporkful listeners can get three months free of the Sirius XM app by going to siriusxm.com/sporkful. Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman.

• 32:01Speaker 03

  This podcast is supported by Nurtac ODT. Remedy Pant. We know you didn't ask for an interruption, but migraine doesn't wait for the right moment to interrupt either. It just barges in, takes your time and throws everything off. So when migraine takes your time, take Nurtac. It's for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura in adults. Nurtac can provide pain relief in two hours, which can last up to two days. Ask your healthcare provider if Nurtac is right for you because your time is for you, not migraine. Don't take if allergic to Nurtac ODT. Allergic reactions can occur even days after use. Get help right away for trouble breathing, rash, swelling of face, mouth, tongue or throat. High blood pressure and Raynaud's syndrome can occur. Get help for high blood pressure, numbness, coolness, pain

• 32:45Speaker 03

  or color changes in fingers and toes. Common side effect is nausea. For full prescribing information, call 1-833-4-NUR-TAC or visit Nurtac.com. All right, back to your podcast, playlist or whatever's keeping you going today. Fidelity Active ETFs have the flexibility to shift and transform as markets do the same. So instead of just riding an index, they can seek to outperform it by adapting to market conditions and pursuing new opportunities as they emerge. And while you get the potential outperformance of an actively managed fund, you can still buy and sell it on your terms, just like any other ETF. Markets can change in real time. Make sure your ETF can too.

• 33:28Speaker 03

  Learn more at fidelity.com/activeetfs. Before investing in any exchange traded fund, you should consider its investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. Contact Fidelity for a prospectus, an offering circular, or if available, a summary prospectus containing this information. Read it carefully. While active ETFs offer the potential to outperform an index, these products may more significantly trail an index as compared with passive ETFs. ETFs are subject to market fluctuation and the risks of their underlying investments. ETFs are subject to management fees and other expenses. Fidelity Broker Services LLC, member NYSE, SIPC.