Kelly Cates: From Sky Sports News To Match Of The Day

What is it really like presenting Match of the Day? In this episode, Romesh is joined by sports broadcaster Kelly Cates to talk about her remarkable career in football journalism, from becoming one of the original faces of Sky Sports News to stepping into the Match of the Day studio. Kelly opens up about growing up surrounded by football, how sports broadcasting has changed over the last three decades and why she deliberately avoids reading comments (good and bad) about her work. They discuss the modern pressures that face footballers today and what it's really like presenting one of the UK's most iconic sports programmes. Plus, there's a maths geek-out, a question from Shanthi, Misquoted and even a message from Jamie Redknapp. A Ranga Bee Production in partnership with Platform Media. Chapters 00:00 Intro 01:31 A gift for Kelly 02:57 On Ready Steady Cook 05:35 Growing up in football 09:24 A question from Shanthi 10:25 Sport injuries 12:05 On Jamie Redknapp 14:08 A question from Jamie 16:00 Maths geek out 19:30 Sky Sports News 22:22 Broadcast journalism 26:50 Expectations of footballers 27:40 Media & journalism changing 31:13 “Unicorn” footballers 32:43 Match of the Day 37:57 Career progression 41:04 A sidenote on trains 41:48 The World Cup 45:22 Misquoted 55:53 An exclusive 56:18 Outro Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Okay, we're gonna do an intro for you now.

• 0:01Speaker 01

  Okay, alright.

• 0:02Speaker 00

  It's quite difficult, you know, I've not, I don't think I've had an intro. We did quite long intros, don't we? I think, well, you know, you're trying to give the person their, you know, we're trying to give you your flowers.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  Explain who the fuck they are.

• 0:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, no. We're trying to give you your flowers, but it's quite difficult, you know, it's difficult to know. I, I, I don't envy you having to figure out what face to do while this is happening.

• 0:23Speaker 01

  Oh, uh, yeah.

• 0:24Speaker 00

  So can we just?

• 0:24Speaker 01

  It is one of those, like, you don't know, like, really?

• 0:28Speaker 00

  No, but can we just close up? Can we just, a real tight shot on Kelly as I read this out?

• 0:32Speaker 01

  Just started to sweat.

• 0:35Speaker 00

  I would like you to do just sort of a knowing nod, like.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, actually, yes, she is, yeah. Hi, I'm Kelly Cates and I'm on the Romesh Ranga Nathan Show.

• 0:54Speaker 02

  Oh, shut up, Romesh.

• 0:57Speaker 00

  Uh, okay, my guest today is a seasoned sports broadcaster with more than three decades of experience bringing live football, major tournaments and Olympic and Paralympic coverage to audiences across Sky Sports, BBC Sports, ITV, ESPN and Radio Five Live. She now co-hosts the iconic Match of the Day, is the brilliant, the legendary, the iconic Kelly Cates, everybody! How did it feel?

• 1:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's really uncomfortable.

• 1:25Speaker 00

  Uh, now, welcome to the show, we're big, we're all big fans here and very excited to meet you, very excited to have you on the podcast. Full disclosure, we do this with every guest, but we have got your present.

• 1:35Speaker 01

  Yes, I, well, I know, I've seen it, but, well, I've not seen the present, but I know you give people presents and I forgot that there's a present.

• 1:43Speaker 00

  They get mixed receptions.

• 1:45Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 1:46Speaker 00

  But I'd, I'd love to know what you think of this, so that's not really a great, it's not really a great build up.

• 1:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, is this how you give birthday presents and things?

• 1:54Speaker 00

  Sometimes I've really bigged it up.

• 1:56Speaker 01

  When you give presents in real life, do you do this? Do you give like a full, because I do that, I give full explanations, I'm like, I thought you would use this for blah, blah, blah, and then you could.

• 2:05Speaker 00

  I've only ever given presents on podcasts.

• 2:07Speaker 01

  It's biscuit, oh, it's Liverpool biscuit!

• 2:12Speaker 00

  So we got you some Liverpool shortbread.

• 2:13Speaker 01

  Do not hate them, this is amazing, no, this is amazing.

• 2:16Speaker 00

  Uh, the, the thing that I have to say to you is, please do not eat them now.

• 2:21Speaker 01

  What, during the podcast?

• 2:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:23Speaker 01

  Just like sprayed crumbs everywhere all the way through.

• 2:25Speaker 00

  It's just that I could.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  And it would also need a very dry mouth, which would be.

• 2:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, the problem is, is, uh, we can be as offensive as we like on this podcast.

• 2:33Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:33Speaker 00

  But if we, if anybody eats.

• 2:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh, people hate it.

• 2:37Speaker 00

  It's worse than declaring yourself a nonce.

• 2:39Speaker 01

  I think, yeah.

• 2:40Speaker 00

  Uh, on, on this podcast, in terms of the number of complaints that we get.

• 2:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's horrible.

• 2:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:44Speaker 01

  I can't stand people eating, I don't wanna, I don't wanna see that.

• 2:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:48Speaker 01

  And I don't, and you know, when you see, there are certain TV chefs who will eat their food and they smack their lips.

• 2:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:55Speaker 01

  It's disgusting, it is like.

• 2:57Speaker 00

  Have you ever, have you been on a show you've had to try the food?

• 3:00Speaker 01

  I did Ready, Steady Cook years and years and years ago.

• 3:03Speaker 00

  You did Ready, Steady Cook?

• 3:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, years ago.

• 3:06Speaker 00

  What, what was?

• 3:07Speaker 01

  No, I was on.

• 3:08Speaker 00

  Sorry, I'm actually buzzing about this.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  I was on with, it was me against Lee Dixon.

• 3:11Speaker 00

  Wow, holy shit!

• 3:13Speaker 01

  Exactly, um, and I, and I won.

• 3:16Speaker 00

  So what did you bring in? Do you remember? Because, hold on, that's the premise of the show, you bring.

• 3:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it was like smoked haddock. Yeah, I know, well, you're vegan, so that's not gonna be a.

• 3:28Speaker 00

  No, but that sounds like quite a difficult ingredient in any way.

• 3:31Speaker 01

  And then you made like Parmesan crisps.

• 3:33Speaker 00

  Oh, nice.

• 3:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, they were quite good, and a beetroot dip thing.

• 3:36Speaker 00

  Smoked haddock, Parmesan crisp and a beetroot dip, it's quite a lot of conflicting flavours there, isn't it?

• 3:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, it was.

• 3:41Speaker 00

  I would describe it as a subtle dish.

• 3:43Speaker 01

  It was not a cohesive plate of food, a cohesive plate of food.

• 3:45Speaker 00

  It's a lot of, uh, it's the sort of thing where a judge would go, there's a lot of things fighting for my attention.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  But the, but the thing was, I think the other team made a souffle that collapsed.

• 3:55Speaker 00

  Right.

• 3:56Speaker 01

  So.

• 3:56Speaker 00

  It was a mad decision to make a souffle. How long did you get on Ready, Steady Cook? Is it twenty?

• 4:00Speaker 01

  Twenty minutes, I think, it was a long time ago.

• 4:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, sorry, I've really bigged up.

• 4:04Speaker 01

  I still have, I still have the plate, I still have the Ready, Steady Cook plate, that's very, yeah, thanks.

• 4:09Speaker 00

  But when you, when you, the reason I was asking the question is, when you, when you try the food, because whenever you watch something where they're eating.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:16Speaker 00

  They react like it's the most delicious thing they've ever eaten in their lives.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  It was really lovely.

• 4:21Speaker 00

  And, and then you think to yourself.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  Beetroot dip was.

• 4:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, beetroot dip with the smoked haddock and the Parmesan crisp.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  I didn't have it, but they weren't together, they did like a starter, like a little dip.

• 4:29Speaker 00

  Okay, right.

• 4:30Speaker 01

  Crisps and.

• 4:31Speaker 00

  Or did you dip in, did you dip the Parmesan crisp into it?

• 4:33Speaker 01

  I think that was right, yeah, I think that was right.

• 4:34Speaker 00

  Sorry, I'm so, I'm going forensic on this, but I, I, I went on this morning.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 4:38Speaker 00

  And I'd always thought to myself, I'm not gonna react like that.

• 4:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:41Speaker 00

  And Lisa Snowden was making pancakes, that's the most ITV thing I've ever said. And, um, and then I did it and I, I couldn't help it.

• 4:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:49Speaker 00

  I went, oh!

• 4:52Speaker 00

  Oh, wow!

• 4:53Speaker 01

  Did you mean it, were you faking it?

• 4:54Speaker 00

  No, I, I mean, I thought they were nice, but then you, but then you, but like if you, because normally when you eat, you just go, even if like, you're, you're, you know, your partner or a family member, or your mum's made something, you go, oh, that's nice.

• 5:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:05Speaker 00

  You don't go.

• 5:06Speaker 01

  Genuinely?

• 5:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:08Speaker 01

  But what's the, what's the Instagram thing, I have to put my, the Instagram is where they go.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  And they take a minute.

• 5:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 5:15Speaker 01

  And they're just like, oh my god, it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 5:19Speaker 00

  Oh, my goodness.

• 5:20Speaker 01

  That is like, no, but stop.

• 5:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I've watched so many videos of people taking food into a car and eating it and then just going, oh my god.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:29Speaker 00

  I'm like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm just gonna try it now, I'm just gonna try it now.

• 5:31Speaker 01

  And you're like, oh my god, eat the fucking food.

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• 6:35Speaker 00

  So, look, you're a Liverpool fan by birth, aren't you?

• 6:37Speaker 01

  By birth, yes, well, not quite by birth, because my dad didn't move to Liverpool until I was like nearly two. So almost by birth, but not quite.

• 6:46Speaker 00

  And how hardcore would you describe yourself now?

• 6:49Speaker 01

  Uh, well, not hardcore in that I don't get to go to games or anything.

• 6:52Speaker 00

  Right.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  So not very, and also with work, you just kind of, you're across everything, so you can't, you can't be as laser focused as.

• 7:00Speaker 00

  Uh, now, look, I know you're asked about your dad.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:02Speaker 00

  The great Sir Kenny Douglas, all the time. You've embraced football.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 7:06Speaker 00

  But you could have easily gone completely the other way.

• 7:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I did do that.

• 7:09Speaker 00

  Did you flirt with that for a while?

• 7:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, when I was younger, um, probably that sort of, uh, sort of early teens maybe, just kind of, well, maybe a bit younger than that, I was just like, I don't, I'm not interested in this at all. And had a few years of just not, not caring at all, not watching anything, not going to games, nothing. And then I went back in one year and just went, I said, I'll, I'll come, I think what I'll do is I'll come to the first game of the season, like, I was kind of bestowing my presents on the occasion. And, um, turned up and I was like, oh no, I, I want to come back, I want to come back every week now or every other week.

• 7:38Speaker 00

  So you got, you got the bug?

• 7:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:40Speaker 00

  Did he, how forceful was he about trying to?

• 7:42Speaker 01

  Not at all, not, I mean, not even slightly bothered.

• 7:47Speaker 01

  It was like, yeah, come if you want, yeah, it's fine.

• 7:49Speaker 00

  But it must have been like, are, are there bits of your childhood that to you were normal, but now when you look back on it, it seems.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  Well, the ones, everybody's always like, oh, who was around at your house? And I'm like, oh, just footballers.

• 7:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:00Speaker 01

  Like, that's not, because I don't, and I still now to this day don't really think of football as as famous people.

• 8:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:07Speaker 01

  I can't, it doesn't, that doesn't compute to me.

• 8:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, because it's so normalized for you.

• 8:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like.

• 8:11Speaker 00

  Because, because for me, because I'm so shit at football, that even like when you meet, what are you nodding for? Sorry, yeah, no, no. But, but you know, like, so then when, and, and so much of my kind of childhood memories are charged up with, with watching football and loving it. Then when I meet a footballer, I still can't get, like, even on League of their own, I still, I'm still a bit thirsty, I would say.

• 8:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you're, but if you were to meet a comedian.

• 8:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:36Speaker 01

  You'd, you're like, mm.

• 8:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say I was cool, I mean, I met, like, Jack Dee is, is one of my comedy heroes. When I first met him, I would say, and I think he would say this, I made a note of myself. But, you know, then you get used to it, but I feel like football is, it's so far removed, you can't kind of help it.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that's the thing, I don't feel far removed from it.

• 8:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, of course.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  And then it's not, and even now with the, and then the younger ones are so young that you're just like, they, they walk in front of you and you're like, they're boys, do you know what I mean? They're in their early twenties.

• 9:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:08Speaker 01

  And so they're, and, yeah, so I just don't really, and because, because like, growing up around, being like around a football club, not just around football.

• 9:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, of course, yeah.

• 9:18Speaker 01

  Like being in the club, being, you know, in, in the, in the mix and then, and then even now, you're standing pitch side, so you see them up close as real people. Rather than as kind of, you know, really distant people on a screen.

• 9:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, and, and also I feel like, well, I mean, I, I, I, we were lucky enough to go into the players lounge after one of the Arsenal games. And you see these, these players that you love so much and they're just chatting with their friends and family.

• 9:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:44Speaker 00

  And then actually think, oh, this is like.

• 9:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:46Speaker 00

  It's their job, do you know what I mean? Because, because football fans want, they want, they want the players of their team to be just thinking about it all the time, do you know what I mean?

• 9:55Speaker 01

  Obsessed.

• 9:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, and I remember like, um, I interviewed, uh, years ago Hector Bellerin. And he was saying that Arsenal had lost and then his family came over to visit him and they went out to a restaurant. And he said he was conscious of the fact that he didn't want to be seen to be laughing.

• 10:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 10:11Speaker 00

  Or smiling with his family, because if, if somebody like grabbed a photo, then that would be it for him, do you know what I mean?

• 10:16Speaker 01

  Because that's it, Hector Bellerin laughs off Arsenal defeats.

• 10:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  There's the picture and it's like, that's not, that's not what was happening at all.

• 10:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, um, we've got a question from my mum.

• 10:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:27Speaker 00

  Um, it's, I don't know what this question is, so I, I'm about to, it could be great.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 10:33Speaker 00

  But it could be offensive and racist, let's hear it.

• 10:37Speaker 05

  Hi Kelly, I think you are a very talented lady. Romesh loves football. I'm not a big fan, big football fan. But I like Jamie Redknapp and the Lionesses. Did you ever consider becoming a player? Just let me know, I would love to know. And this is Romesh's mum, Shanti. Thank you darling.

• 11:04Speaker 00

  So the way mums ask the questions, does she want Kelly to just text her personally? Could you let my mum know?

• 11:10Speaker 01

  We've got a rapport here, this is like, yeah. Me and Shanti, we're, we're. And I like that as well, Jamie Redknapp and the Lionesses, that's what his band would be called. I love that.

• 11:20Speaker 00

  Jamie Redknapp and the Lionesses.

• 11:21Speaker 01

  It's me, Jamie Redknapp and the Lionesses. Headlining.

• 11:24Speaker 00

  Did you ever, were we ever gonna be a player?

• 11:26Speaker 01

  No, never. I was, I knocked myself out playing football once. That one time I, I went on holiday and I was like, I've seen this, I'm kind of, you know. And there were kids playing on, you know those, um, you know those tennis courts that you get that are sort of red? Not, not, not a clay court, not like a proper clay court, but like almost like red gravelly.

• 11:42Speaker 00

  Oh, the gravel?

• 11:43Speaker 01

  Red gravelly kind of thing and, um, like a really shit tennis court. And I was like, oh, I've seen this done, I'm sure I'll be fine, this doesn't look very hard at all. And was, I would be, I mean, like, old enough to know, but prob- probably like 11? And sort of, somebody hit the ball out onto the wing and I was like, oh. I just like, I could see myself kind of running along and I was, in my head I was gonna cross it and it was all. And I tripped over my own feet and knocked myself out, running down the way, yeah.

• 12:09Speaker 00

  So it wasn't even under pressure of a tackle or anything?

• 12:11Speaker 01

  No, I ended up in Spanish A and E with a big like lump on my head and kind of, yeah, yeah.

• 12:14Speaker 00

  God, that is really sad.

• 12:15Speaker 01

  So, yeah, so no, I didn't play.

• 12:17Speaker 00

  No, no. Um, I, I, I did high jump about that age.

• 12:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I used to do high jump.

• 12:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, I missed the mat and knocked myself unconscious.

• 12:24Speaker 01

  Oh, oh my god, I didn't do that.

• 12:27Speaker 00

  It was such a massive mat as well. It, it's actually. It was actually quite impressive to be able to do it.

• 12:31Speaker 01

  But was it quite far away from the bar? Did you fall between like the bar and the mat?

• 12:35Speaker 00

  No, I, I sort of, I, I took such a tight angle.

• 12:39Speaker 01

  I can't work out, hang on, what's the physics of this? Wait, go on.

• 12:42Speaker 00

  So here's the posts.

• 12:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:44Speaker 00

  Is that what they're called? There's the bar.

• 12:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:46Speaker 00

  And I sort of went in like this.

• 12:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:49Speaker 00

  And you're supposed to sort of curve in, aren't you? I just went across. It was like I was doing a cameo.

• 12:54Speaker 01

  So you didn't even go over the bar?

• 12:55Speaker 00

  I did sort of go over the, I think I knocked the bar off and then missed them. So it's, it's.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:00Speaker 00

  It was a real fuck up.

• 13:01Speaker 01

  I think they put the mat too far away from the bar. I think that's what that was, yeah.

• 13:05Speaker 00

  Thanks a lot. Um, now, you mentioned Jamie Redknapp.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:08Speaker 00

  Jamie Redknapp stayed at your house.

• 13:10Speaker 01

  He did, yeah.

• 13:10Speaker 00

  He told me that your dad, when he wanted to sign him for Liverpool, said, come and stay with us. He said, you can stay in Kelly's bed.

• 13:18Speaker 01

  Nope, that's wrong. He tells this story all the time.

• 13:20Speaker 00

  He says, this is what he told me, this is, I'm quoting Jamie, I'm quoting Jamie.

• 13:25Speaker 01

  No, I know, he tells this story and I've put him right in it so many times and he still tells it.

• 13:28Speaker 00

  He said that he was staying in your bed and that you had a rubber sheet on your bed.

• 13:31Speaker 01

  Yes, at 14, yeah.

• 13:34Speaker 00

  He said you were 16. He was 17, you were 16, you were in the year below.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  Oh my god, he's such a liar, right? Also, he's made me older than I am. He is much older than I am. He is, he tells this story and it is not correct at all. There are, there are correct elements.

• 13:49Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 13:49Speaker 01

  And I keep telling him.

• 13:50Speaker 00

  So here's Jamie Redknapp.

• 13:51Speaker 01

  In conversation, I will say to him, no, that's not right, that's not how it happened, and tell him. And then he will repeat the story, the version that he told you.

• 13:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, he was adamant to me.

• 14:00Speaker 01

  And when I'm sitting there, having put, he came, he would, like, quite often come and stay at the house. Cause he was only 17 when he moved to Liverpool.

• 14:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:08Speaker 01

  And my dad knew his dad, so he, he was like, oh, I'll look after him and he can come and stay.

• 14:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, in Kelly's bed.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  He stayed in my, in my, in my toddler sister's bed.

• 14:16Speaker 00

  Right.

• 14:16Speaker 01

  Who was very small. I was about 14, 15 at the time. So she'd be about two.

• 14:21Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  And she had a plastic sheet on her bed.

• 14:24Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 14:25Speaker 01

  Not me, at four, at 14, 15, I was going through the night.

• 14:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:29Speaker 01

  I was.

• 14:30Speaker 00

  Don't say like it's a flex.

• 14:33Speaker 01

  I don't know what, I don't know when most people stop their plastic sheets. But I was long out of them.

• 14:39Speaker 00

  Well, listen, it's your word against Jamie's. Uh, he's also, he also sent me in a question for you.

• 14:45Speaker 01

  Did he? Great.

• 14:46Speaker 00

  I'd, I'd love to play it for you.

• 14:48Speaker 01

  I'm delighted to hear that.

• 14:51Speaker 00

  He's very excited.

• 14:51Speaker 01

  So I've known Jamie for, so that is what.

• 14:53Speaker 00

  Oh, look, look, what I was.

• 14:55Speaker 01

  Coming up for 40 years, I know Jamie.

• 14:56Speaker 00

  What I will say to you before I play this question in is that he loves you. He was so excited that you were coming.

• 15:00Speaker 01

  Right, okay.

• 15:01Speaker 00

  Um, he's like, she's great, she's so, honestly, mom, it's gonna be such a great episode, she's so great. Okay.

• 15:08Speaker 06

  Hi Romesh, how you doing mate? It's Jamie Redknapp here. Hope all well, loving the podcast, absolutely brilliant every week. And it's so good to have Kelly on. I love working with Kelly, she's brilliant, so good at her job, so funny, just an amazing human. But I do have one question for her, if that's okay.

• 15:25Speaker 00

  Of course.

• 15:26Speaker 06

  I wanna know what my nickname was from Kelly when I had my bad eye infection. Thank you guys, see you all soon.

• 15:35Speaker 00

  So that's, that's the question.

• 15:37Speaker 01

  I hate him.

• 15:40Speaker 00

  So Kelly, the, the question from Jamie that I'd love to put to you and I, I'm wondering, I'm wondering what the nickname could have been. So Jamie had a bad eye.

• 15:52Speaker 01

  And his nickname was Romesh. Oh my god, I hate him. I really hate him. I, I genuinely, I, I'd say I've known him for, coming up to 40 years now.

• 16:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:09Speaker 01

  But he does tell people that I had a rubber sheet on my bed.

• 16:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:12Speaker 01

  And I was, yeah. So he just spends his life.

• 16:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I feel like.

• 16:16Speaker 01

  Oh, she's great, she's a really nice human, she's great, I love working with her.

• 16:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:20Speaker 01

  And then stitches me up, not once, but twice.

• 16:22Speaker 00

  But I feel like if, um, Jamie has done you wrong like that, you know, say something against him, don't call him Romesh.

• 16:29Speaker 01

  I know, I should, I know.

• 16:30Speaker 00

  That's on me, that's like, I'm telling people you've got a rubber sheet. I've done nothing. I'm an, I'm an innocent victim in all of this.

• 16:35Speaker 01

  Jamie's very good, Jamie's very clever at playing his cards close to his.

• 16:38Speaker 00

  No, he's not, let me stop you there. Les, I don't mind you coming on and offering opinion. What I won't have is you saying fundamental untruths.

• 16:48Speaker 01

  We need to fact check it. I'm really warm.

• 16:56Speaker 00

  No, he's very good at playing his cards close.

• 16:58Speaker 01

  He does keep his cards very close to his chest.

• 17:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, he does, yeah.

• 17:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:01Speaker 00

  Uh, now, I believe that, uh, you and I have something in common. Is it true that you, you could have had a career in maths?

• 17:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I did, well, I started a math degree and then left to go to Sky, yeah.

• 17:12Speaker 00

  So you're really good at maths?

• 17:13Speaker 01

  No, not now.

• 17:14Speaker 00

  Right.

• 17:14Speaker 01

  I was quite good at maths, yeah.

• 17:16Speaker 00

  You have to be pretty good to, to be about to do a degree.

• 17:19Speaker 01

  Oh, sorry, I thought you were gonna say in order to like work out tables, that's what people always say. They're always like, oh, you must be really good with like the stats and stuff. I'm like, that's not that advanced. That's just adding up, yeah.

• 17:29Speaker 00

  What would you have done? Like, were you thinking about doing a career in it?

• 17:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, may, may, but maybe like, I, I mean, really vaguely something in the city. I hadn't even gone into that.

• 17:38Speaker 00

  Cause like maths degree is the hardest degree.

• 17:40Speaker 01

  It is, yeah, it's the best degree.

• 17:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:42Speaker 01

  With, with the coolest people on it.

• 17:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:45Speaker 01

  Which, where you kind of sit down, you sit in your lectures and you look around, you go, oh.

• 17:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 17:49Speaker 01

  These are my friends for the next few years.

• 17:51Speaker 00

  I remember I had a group, we had a gang of us and we were called the Rubber Sheet Virgins.

• 17:57Speaker 01

  Which, as Jamie will testify, is a cool thing.

• 18:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, really cool, really cool. I love, um, yeah, I love, I love maths.

• 18:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. There's not, it's not something you can have a lot of chat about.

• 18:10Speaker 00

  No.

• 18:10Speaker 01

  It's, it's a really difficult subject to kind of bring into everyday conversation.

• 18:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, but people do, like, when I started doing comedy and I started to do interviews, they would like, and, and I'm, I'm aware that I've just asked you about maths in our chat. But they would try and go, I used to be a maths teacher, we did comedy.

• 18:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:25Speaker 00

  And I remember doing Sunday brunch. Have you done Sunday brunch? On Sunday brunch, they were so, um, they were so keen to talk about my maths career. They got me to solve a quadratic equation on the show.

• 18:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:37Speaker 00

  On live TV.

• 18:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:39Speaker 00

  And then I did say.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  But like, it's hard.

• 18:41Speaker 00

  It is hard, but it's not entertaining, is it?

• 18:44Speaker 01

  How hard was it?

• 18:45Speaker 00

  Oh, the quadratic, no, the quadratic equation wasn't hard.

• 18:47Speaker 01

  You didn't need to use the formula or anything, it was like, yeah. And this is, this is the thing, I know, because I then started on TikTok, looking up stuff for like my kids for their GCSEs and A levels and different things and like sending them stuff. I now get, I now get maths problems on my TikTok. So other people have like really interesting TikTok and I get these like maths geeks going along going, the best way to solve this equation is to do. With like an AI voice.

• 19:13Speaker 00

  It's so horribly responsive, that algorithm.

• 19:16Speaker 01

  But I do it, I, I do it.

• 19:17Speaker 00

  So you're still a maths, you're still a maths bud?

• 19:19Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, they're easy, but I sit and do like easy maths, little maths tests on the thing, yeah. And then, and then feel really, really pleased with myself for getting it right.

• 19:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think that's cool. I think that's really cool.

• 19:31Speaker 01

  Thanks, yeah. It's like year nine kind of maths and I'm sitting there going, yeah.

• 19:35Speaker 00

  I know, but it is lovely to solve maths that's slightly under your.

• 19:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:39Speaker 00

  I, when I, I taught A level maths, uh, for a while and I was only, I would say, half a page ahead of the kids in terms of. Cause it's so fucking hard.

• 19:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:47Speaker 00

  And then every now and again, they'd ask like, a, a, a question that was beyond what we were doing.

• 19:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:51Speaker 00

  And then I'd go, um, oh, I'm just gonna step out and, and I'd go and look it up. I don't have a clue.

• 19:58Speaker 01

  No, because you don't need to.

• 19:59Speaker 00

  No.

• 19:59Speaker 01

  You don't need to know anymore. We, we had, um, when, when I was doing A level maths, we had a teacher who'd literally just qualified. And it was her first job and they gave her tops at A level maths to come out to like a class full of girls. And honestly, I now look back and I, my heart breaks for her cause that cannot have been easy. We were bitches.

• 20:18Speaker 00

  Really?

• 20:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, we were. Not deliberately, but just in the way that 17 year, just naturally, just subconsciously, it's just very innate.

• 20:26Speaker 00

  You just got that vibe, yeah.

• 20:27Speaker 01

  But just in the way that 17, 18 year old girls are.

• 20:29Speaker 00

  Now, you, you were the first ever, is this true, the first ever presenter of Sky Sports News?

• 20:36Speaker 01

  Yes, well, me and Mike Wadabun, yeah.

• 20:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:38Speaker 01

  First ever, first ever, with very, very tiny shoulders and very, very big hair.

• 20:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:43Speaker 01

  And very kind of, it, it was late 90s but very 80s makeup.

• 20:47Speaker 00

  Cause Sky Sports News now is something you have on like, you can have on like the fire. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's just running constantly.

• 20:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:54Speaker 00

  But Sky Sports News.

• 20:56Speaker 01

  In the early days.

• 20:57Speaker 00

  Well, as a concept, it sounds insane, doesn't it?

• 21:00Speaker 01

  It's basically teletext. When we started, that was, it was like, and we said it like it was a selling point, it's teletext with pictures. And people would be like.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  And people would be like, oh, and you'd kind of have to go out and do these like press runs and you'd see these like hard-nosed journalists sitting in front of you, like proper sports journalists. And I was there at twenty-two, kind of going, yeah, no, this is gonna be great. We're gonna fill twenty-four hours of sports news. And they're like, love, we put in one bit of copy a week.

• 21:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 21:33Speaker 01

  But this is not, this is not gonna sustain itself. And so we got around that by just repeating it constantly.

• 21:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 21:38Speaker 01

  And it was just the same shit every fifteen minutes. Not the same shit, same informative.

• 21:42Speaker 00

  The same great like goals, the same like amazing, like cool shit. But, but Sky Sports News now.

• 21:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, now, now they've got a whole, like,

• 21:51Speaker 00

  It's crazy.

• 21:52Speaker 01

  big, modern studio and they move around, they stand up and they, we were just like two people in suit jackets behind a desk.

• 21:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, but it was great.

• 22:00Speaker 01

  It was great. We had so much fun. I was a pioneer.

• 22:02Speaker 00

  But when you, when you started doing that, and like, I remember people thinking, the idea of Sky Sports News seems so crazy.

• 22:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:11Speaker 00

  But you start doing that, did you, do you have a target of what you wanted to do?

• 22:14Speaker 01

  No, I was just glad to have a job.

• 22:16Speaker 00

  Were you just taking each thing as it, really?

• 22:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. I was just like, this is a job and it's a really nice job and I really, really enjoy it. And I didn't, I'm not really a planner. That's not in my, and also it's not the kind of job where you can plan. You can't say, okay, well, by this age, I'm gonna be doing this, or by this age, I'm gonna be doing that. Because it's not, it's, there isn't a career path. It's just, you just kind of hang around and wait for an opportunity and then go, oh, that job's free. Well, I might wanna do that one. And to be honest, I didn't even do that. I just thought, because I was young and stupid, and it took a long time to get out of the stupid part of it.

• 22:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:50Speaker 01

  I wasn't young forever, but I was stupid for a lot longer. And then I just thought people would recognise this talent and potential, and they'd come along and say, you should be doing something.

• 23:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:03Speaker 01

  And I would go, oh, okay, and go along and do it. And that's how, and that, I thought that's how television worked.

• 23:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:08Speaker 01

  And obviously it's not. You have to kind of go and knock on doors and say, this is what I wanna do.

• 23:12Speaker 00

  Unfortunately, it's annoying, isn't it?

• 23:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's really annoying. You have to work.

• 23:15Speaker 00

  I mean, listen, it's gone easy, it's gone easy for me. I've absolutely smashed it. I know for some people, it's like, it's really tricky.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  Apparently.

• 23:21Speaker 00

  But, but, but you, you know, Sky Sports News at the beginning, pinnacle of sports broadcasting now, and, you know, everything in between, Match of the Day and all of that. Do, do, do new, younger broadcasters come and, and tell you that you're an influence on them? Or do they, do they?

• 23:37Speaker 01

  No, what, what new, younger broadcasters do is they come up to me and say, have you got any advice? I want your job.

• 23:42Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 23:42Speaker 01

  And I'm like, well, I'm still in it, so back off.

• 23:45Speaker 00

  Well, it's quite, to me, it seems quite competitive. Because you sort of think of like, the number of people coming through football that wanna move into what you do.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's much more competitive than when I was young, definitely. Like, that, that kind of, the younger women that are coming through now, it's, well, there's more of them for a start.

• 24:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:04Speaker 01

  But, but they are also, they, they're, there are groups of friends, whereas we all, like, my generation, we all kind of knew each other, because there weren't that many of us. So it didn't feel like there weren't many of us, because we were all mates. But now there are lots of, like, different groups of women.

• 24:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:21Speaker 01

  And, and there are some fallings out and kind of.

• 24:23Speaker 00

  Really?

• 24:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. And they're not my stories to tell.

• 24:26Speaker 00

  No, no, absolutely. But if you could leave a list of names, we'll get them on.

• 24:32Speaker 00

  But then, do you, are you watching, like, I mean, look, now you're the Don. But, yeah. But, but when you're coming up and coming through and it's competitive and all of that, you know, you talk to Jamie, who's somebody that's like had to sideways step into Skechers. But, but, you know, like, he, he's.

• 24:48Speaker 01

  Do you know, he sits, he sits when we're watching games and players go, and he's like, Skechers, Skechers. And then, and then, and then somebody else will come back with one of his jackets on, he's like, Sandbanks.

• 24:58Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, there was a time when everybody in football's wearing Sandbanks.

• 25:01Speaker 01

  Cal, he's a Sandbanks. Yeah. Is he?

• 25:04Speaker 00

  I, I, actually, Jamie gave me some Sandbanks stuff. And he gave it to, like, a few people that were on league and, and, and the website featured everybody that had worn that stuff, except for me. I, I, I sent him so many photos.

• 25:17Speaker 01

  I don't think I've got one either. Do you know who, do you know who they saw the biggest up, you were, the biggest uptick in sales from when they wore it?

• 25:24Speaker 00

  Who?

• 25:25Speaker 01

  Jamie Carragher.

• 25:26Speaker 00

  You're joking?

• 25:27Speaker 01

  No. He's the, he is like the one. When, when they, when he wears one, they see a boost in sales in Liverpool.

• 25:32Speaker 00

  Jamie Carragher?

• 25:33Speaker 01

  Jamie Carragher, style icon.

• 25:35Speaker 00

  So do, do you like, when you're, when you're coming through and you're looking for certain opportunities and like a job comes up and there's a few people that are in the mix for it, are you analysing what other people do and thinking, how do I be better than that? Or how do I?

• 25:49Speaker 01

  More when I was younger, I think. Whereas now, I think, I'm, I'm, I'm like, well, I'm not gonna change that much. So if they're interested, then they must be interested in the, because of the way I do things. But, so I, I can't, not so much now. But definitely when I was younger, I would watch everybody and be like, oh, I like, and then I tried to do everything that other people did. And then it all felt very false. And then I'd try, and then I would pick bits of what other people did and be like, well, maybe I could do that, but do it a bit differently, or do something that suits me. And then kind of, I am making this sound so much more crafted than it actually is.

• 26:20Speaker 00

  No, but, but.

• 26:21Speaker 01

  But it's literally just turning up in front of the tally and going, uh, there's a game coming up, and then turn into a pundit and go, what do you think?

• 26:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, but, but, I, I.

• 26:28Speaker 01

  I mean, let's not overcomplicate this.

• 26:29Speaker 00

  We can all boil it down to, but like, you know, you're so good at what you're doing, you're so well-respected. But like, it's.

• 26:34Speaker 01

  That's just being around for a long time.

• 26:36Speaker 00

  Do you think so? Yeah, but there are lots of people around for a long time. They're in fuck all. Am I right?

• 26:43Speaker 00

  But no, I think it's like, I think that when somebody's really good at something, they make it look easy. And, and I think you're really good at that. Do you know what I mean? It's, it's, you make it look like an absolute piece of piss. You make it look like, you make it look like anybody could do it.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  I mean, I mean, really, that's like a difference. It's not, like, this is the thing, this is the thing that people, and, and there is, like, you do work at your job. But at the end, like, at the end of the day, you come home and you're like, I literally, I'm at the mercy of the pundits. If the pundits are no good, I am screwed.

• 27:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:14Speaker 01

  I'm sitting there going, so what about the, oh, what about the left back then, hey? And they look at you with this, this blank expression, and you're like, oh, Christ, this is gonna be a long hour.

• 27:23Speaker 00

  But, but, I mean, the thing, because I always think it's really unfair, when people sort of, you know, that, people don't say it so much now, but it was this thing of like footballers being stupid.

• 27:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 27:33Speaker 00

  And, and, and they would always like.

• 27:35Speaker 01

  Well, you said it about Jamie, earlier.

• 27:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. But that's, that's a very specific individual thing. That's not because he's a footballer.

• 27:40Speaker 01

  That's personal.

• 27:41Speaker 00

  He genetically, he's thick. But that's not because, that's not a football thing. That's a Jamie Redknapp thing, do you know what I mean? But, but I, I always, I always resented that, because I feel like it's a bit elitist. You know, they've got a, you know, the example is, is you don't expect Stephen Fry to ping in a free kick, do you know what I mean? So why do you expect a footballer to be super eloquent or whatever?

• 28:03Speaker 01

  And they are much more so now.

• 28:05Speaker 00

  Well, they sort of have to be, right?

• 28:07Speaker 01

  They sort of have to be, but also in the way that American sports stars were like this, years before British sports stars, where they're just used to the media. And they're just much more media literate. So they're just better at it. And they're more exposed to seeing other people talk and, and, and building their brand has become more of a thing now. Whereas it used to be a kind of badge of shame. Like, if you looked enthusiastic about the media, it was kind of, people would take the piss.

• 28:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 28:30Speaker 01

  Whereas now, it's like, that's a thing that you wanted, if you're good at that, it's like, oh my God, they're gonna get brand deals. And they're gonna, they're gonna have other opportunities off the back of it. So it's a good thing to have.

• 28:40Speaker 00

  Because I think, like, because I think the nature of, of, of football, uh, sort of on TV has changed, you know, punditry and presenting and all of that. Because I think in, in years gone by, you sort of think, if somebody wasn't into football, they'd walk into the room and watch somebody, watching some people talking about it. And it'd just sound very drab.

• 28:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:59Speaker 00

  And kind of, I don't wanna, but now it feels like it, it has to be more of a product, doesn't it? And have you, is that, during your career, have you noticed the push towards that?

• 29:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, because I think it used to be much more kind of, like physically, like buttoned up, shirt and tie, kind of, just, and, and sit very still and kind, and then I think probably because people started to have their own YouTube channels and then their own different so, social media platforms. And then that whole style of talking to people has just changed. The, the way everybody communicates now is, is different and more relaxed.

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• 30:56Speaker 00

  So what's your take on like, on sort of the YouTubers and all of the, you know, the TikTok football pundits?

• 31:03Speaker 01

  The TikToks.

• 31:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, the TikTokers.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  What, in what way?

• 31:06Speaker 00

  Well, you know, I sort of think like a lot of the time, my, my kids will, they will go straight. Basically, I, in my opinion, and you know, you don't have to, you don't have to agree or disagree with me at all. This is just a view.

• 31:18Speaker 01

  It's just your podcast.

• 31:19Speaker 00

  This is the view, views of Romesh Ranganathan. But I think you, you've seen, you've seen an explosion of, of online kind of, you know, guys that they just come on, you know, podcasters and stuff like that, who are not part of mainstream media, but, and have started to become. But they're sort of on TikTok or whatever, putting their views across. And they've become really big, but I think that because the likes and stuff are such currency for them. In my opinion, they'll just put like, they'll put out an explosive view just to get, just to get attention. Like something like, I don't know, I think Thierry Henry was actually shit.

• 31:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 31:58Speaker 00

  And then that feels like it's, that's kind of the market that's moved towards.

• 32:03Speaker 01

  Always been the way.

• 32:03Speaker 00

  You think so?

• 32:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, because if you think of like phone and shows, you would always, even if the, well, the host would say, or you'd put on like a really controversial caller at the top of the show to generate calls.

• 32:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:16Speaker 01

  Like that, that's always been, that's always been the case. And it's, and I think sort of more mainstream coverage is doing that a lot more in its social media sort of clips that it does, that it wants to be more controversial, but that's not, it's a bit like when, you know, written journalists say, oh my God, you just put that headline on for clicks. And like, yeah, I do want people to read my work. That is, that is quite a fundamental point of what I do is that there are eyes on it. So there is, there is a bit of like selling, a bit of marketing on top of that, but, and I, I don't, I don't hate all the YouTube and TikTok stuff. I don't think it's, I don't think it takes away from, because the traditional coverage is still there, if you want it.

• 32:59Speaker 01

  And then there's other ways of watching it that is still there as well. I just don't, I don't see it as a massive problem. I'm not really anti it. I'm just like, a lot of it is not for me. It's not for a middle aged woman sort of who's going to sit down and watch, I'd rather watch a proper, traditional kind of build up with the interviews and the kind of, you know, shots from all around the ground. Yeah, I like all of that.

• 33:20Speaker 00

  I mean, I mean, the other thing is, the other reason you don't have an opinion, you know, don't have a negative opinion.

• 33:24Speaker 01

  I don't have an opinion.

• 33:25Speaker 00

  Well, you don't have a negative opinion about this TikTok because it's because you're not seeing them. Oh, you've got all math stuff coming.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've got math, yeah, exactly.

• 33:30Speaker 00

  Like your algorithms, fuck.

• 33:31Speaker 01

  They're not on my algorithm.

• 33:33Speaker 00

  Unless they do simultaneous equations, Kelly's not going to see you.

• 33:36Speaker 01

  And let's face it, as much, with the best will in the world.

• 33:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  I tell you about who could do a simultaneous equation, Frank Lampard.

• 33:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:45Speaker 01

  Frank, he's, yeah, he's got, do you know what? It is really funny. Like Frank has got, I think like nine GCSEs.

• 33:52Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 33:52Speaker 01

  And this was, this was a big thing. You've got nine or 10 GCSEs.

• 33:55Speaker 00

  It was like, he was a unicorn.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  I did a show years ago called Talk of the Terrace, which is a very strange show, where nominally it was about the kind of highlights of things, but we would have different guests on. Like one week, we had Dynamo, Dynamo on and he pulled a fish out of Michael Vaughn's sleeve. And it was like, it was just a very odd show.

• 34:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's what your guess would happen, mate.

• 34:14Speaker 01

  That was, that was what you'd imagine on a, on a football highlight show. Like the puss, one of the pussycat dolls came on with all these people in wolf heads and it was just very odd. Anyway.

• 34:23Speaker 00

  And this is on the show Talk of the Terrace?

• 34:24Speaker 01

  This is on Talk of the Terrace, yeah.

• 34:28Speaker 01

  It was very odd.

• 34:28Speaker 00

  It would be Talk of the Terrace.

• 34:29Speaker 01

  It would have been, yeah. And we had a footballer on and the whole premise of like a good five minutes of chat was that he liked to read.

• 34:41Speaker 01

  And we treated him like this unicorn, really into books. What are you reading? Fiction, non-fiction, sports biographies? This guy was like, yeah, and he was quite amused by the whole thing. And we were like, really like leaning forward, like, you read?

• 35:01Speaker 00

  Yeah. But I mean, the way Frank Lampard was talked about for, for having nine GCSEs.

• 35:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:06Speaker 00

  It was so funny.

• 35:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, like he was the genius footballer, like the outlier.

• 35:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was so mad.

• 35:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:11Speaker 00

  So let's talk about match of the day if we, if you don't mind.

• 35:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:14Speaker 00

  Um, how did that all come about that you ended up being the Don Don?

• 35:18Speaker 01

  They just asked me. So it was, Gary was leaving.

• 35:21Speaker 00

  Makes sense.

• 35:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, but it was, I didn't, there was no kind of big maneuvering. Gary was leaving and then that accelerated slightly. And then the, the process became a little bit quicker and a little bit sooner. Um, and they said, do you want to come and do it? And we're looking at a team of three. And I was like, who are the other two?

• 35:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:39Speaker 01

  And then they said it was Mark and Gabby. And I was like, oh, that's amazing.

• 35:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:42Speaker 01

  Like that, that genuinely, as much as, you know, it's match of the day, so it's, it sells itself. But also the fact that it's those two, I'm just like, oh my God, like being on a team. I, I know, like normally I sort of take the piss out of the people I work with and it's okay. But it's Mark and Gabby and they're amazing. And it's like, being on a team with them is genuinely like, just really exciting.

• 36:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 36:06Speaker 01

  I just feel like I'm in, I feel like I'm in a really great little group.

• 36:11Speaker 00

  Cause I, I guess being part of, of a three, cause you know, Gary's obviously.

• 36:18Speaker 01

  Takes the pressure off.

• 36:18Speaker 00

  Yeah. Cause it's, that's a difficult, it's a difficult one to follow, right? And so.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  It means that when I make my more extreme views more well known.

• 36:27Speaker 01

  They'll get, they'll get a lot of the blowback on it as well.

• 36:31Speaker 01

  They're going to get caught in the crossfire. I'll drag them into it.

• 36:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  What were we chatting about?

• 36:35Speaker 00

  I would love it if you unleashed some of that on me. It would really help us out on the old algo. You won't see it, obviously.

• 36:41Speaker 01

  Eyes wide open, just go and crash, he's got some thoughts.

• 36:46Speaker 00

  But were you, even as, as part of a three, were you, whenever you take over something like that, there'll be a bit of kickback, won't there? Were you worried about that? Or did you bulletproof yourself or are you sort of mentally?

• 36:57Speaker 01

  Didn't read it. I just didn't read it. Yeah. And it's, that's not hard to do on my algorithm, as discussed previously. But it's not hard to avoid the coverage. It's, it's quite hard to avoid people sending you the coverage.

• 37:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:08Speaker 01

  But then I just said, I don't, I don't want you to send it to me.

• 37:11Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 37:12Speaker 01

  So if people would send me things, even nice stuff, I was like, don't send me it because when you don't send me the nice stuff, like one, if you send me nice stuff, I'll believe it. And that's really unhealthy.

• 37:21Speaker 00

  Really bad.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. And two, if you send, if you then stop sending me stuff, I'll be like, oh my God, does everybody hate me?

• 37:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:27Speaker 01

  Which is not a great place to be in. So I just said, don't send me stuff. I don't want to know. And so I really, I really still don't have any real idea what people thought about it or think about it.

• 37:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  I just do my job.

• 37:39Speaker 00

  You're doing great.

• 37:40Speaker 01

  Thanks. Well, yeah. I mean, it's so great that you've invited me on.

• 37:43Speaker 00

  I've got some story, I've got some negative stuff that I did want to share, just to get your response on.

• 37:47Speaker 01

  A printer, just to go, like one of those things where you read mean tweets.

• 37:52Speaker 00

  It is, but is a massive deal. Were you able to disengage from how much, do you, do you have to try and disengage from?

• 37:58Speaker 01

  All the way through the first one, pretty much.

• 38:00Speaker 00

  Really?

• 38:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I, and I worked with people that I've worked quite a lot with before. And one of them was sort of saying to somebody off camera, they were like, she's really nervous. Cause I'm not, I'm, I don't get nervous really before work or anything. And they were like, she's like, she's re, like as though this might be a problem. She's really nervous.

• 38:16Speaker 00

  Right.

• 38:16Speaker 01

  And I thought I was holding it together, but I really wasn't. I was just like quite quiet and I sat. And then, and then when you go in to watch the games beforehand, like you all sit in this little green room and watch all the games. And I went in the first one, they're like, there's, there's the chair. And like Gary had his own chair. So you get to sit in Gary's chair to watch the games.

• 38:34Speaker 00

  Does it have an ass break in it?

• 38:35Speaker 01

  And there's like two sofas. There's two, it's, it's got a groove.

• 38:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:39Speaker 01

  It's got like, but it's like two, two sofas and an armchair. And you get the armchair, which actually I don't love because it's right under the air conditioning vent and I get really cold.

• 38:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:50Speaker 01

  So I sit there and moan and they put the air conditioning on. I'm like, oh, is there any way anybody could, would, would anybody mind if we kind of turn the air? It's just, I'm right in the.

• 38:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. And, and have you got, do you, have you got used to it now then, I guess?

• 39:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, a little bit.

• 39:03Speaker 00

  You feel chilled?

• 39:04Speaker 01

  It's still really exciting.

• 39:05Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, live, live is annoying, isn't it?

• 39:07Speaker 01

  No, live's great. Recorded is annoying when you have to go and do pickups and re-records and, oh, that wasn't quite right. And this didn't, when it's live and you get it wrong, it's just like move on. You don't have to go do it again. I hate doing stuff again. I hate it so much.

• 39:20Speaker 00

  I, I, the problem is, is like, cause I, I've, I've done almost no live TV whatsoever, like comic relief occasions.

• 39:27Speaker 01

  All I'm imagining, your stand-up is live.

• 39:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, it is. Yeah. But yeah, that is. But then if you say something, it's kind of, it's just in the room, isn't it?

• 39:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the point.

• 39:34Speaker 00

  But, but, but the, the.

• 39:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. But if somebody, and if you were doing like a live stand-up show.

• 39:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  And somebody kept stopping you and going, we just, we need to just go and pick that up. We just need to go and do this again. And we need to kind of, it's really annoying.

• 39:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, I guess so. But it's just, it's just that I'm so scared of, like, I'm just so, if I.

• 39:53Speaker 01

  I'm not giving my opinion though. So it was easy for me because I just asked the question.

• 39:56Speaker 00

  Isn't there part of you that's going to drop the C-bomb? Do you, do you, like, do you know what I mean? Just, there's part of you that wants to self-destruct, right?

• 40:04Speaker 01

  I genuinely, like on my last ever shift.

• 40:08Speaker 01

  Would love, would love to just, there is, there is a part of me that would really just like, just like, or like, win the lottery.

• 40:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:16Speaker 01

  And just go in and not tell anybody and just go in one day and just, just like, just behave really badly.

• 40:24Speaker 00

  I have that fantasy.

• 40:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:25Speaker 00

  Uh, now, you, you're, you, you've sort of talked about the fact that it, for a lot of people, as you head into your fifties.

• 40:31Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:32Speaker 00

  I'm forty eight years old.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:34Speaker 00

  I sort of think I'm gonna just wind this all up.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 40:38Speaker 00

  But you're.

• 40:39Speaker 01

  But I didn't.

• 40:39Speaker 00

  No.

• 40:40Speaker 01

  So, but I was thinking, I wasn't thinking about winding it all up, but you do start to think that, like, you do start to think, end game, like, what's it gonna look like?

• 40:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:50Speaker 01

  How, how is it gonna wind up? Cause it's not gonna go on forever. And then they came in with a new job offer and I was like, oh, okay, so not so much the winding up thing.

• 40:59Speaker 00

  Like the biggest.

• 40:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, oh.

• 41:03Speaker 00

  The biggest version of your job. You've got now.

• 41:07Speaker 01

  Do you wanna come and do that?

• 41:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:08Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 41:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:09Speaker 01

  But, um, but yeah, but, but then you just have to go in like a hundred percent and go, right, I'm gonna do everything. I'm just gonna, and all the stuff that comes with it and all the kind of extra bits and all that and just really enjoy it.

• 41:22Speaker 00

  But, but how, how, cause you sort, you're not a planner.

• 41:26Speaker 01

  No.

• 41:27Speaker 00

  You, match, I'm assuming match of the day wasn't on some vision board at your house?

• 41:31Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 41:32Speaker 00

  So it just came to you?

• 41:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:33Speaker 00

  And now you're doing this massive thing.

• 41:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:37Speaker 00

  Do you have other things that you wanna do? Like, is there, is there, like, if you were to retire, or if, if you said something on this that got you cancelled?

• 41:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:44Speaker 00

  And then this is your last day.

• 41:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:46Speaker 00

  Is there stuff that you wished you'd have done that you hadn't?

• 41:48Speaker 01

  No, no, I don't think so. I don't think so because there's nothing really in my sort of future that I think.

• 41:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:55Speaker 01

  Oh, I really, really wanna do that.

• 41:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:57Speaker 01

  I just, I'm just enjoying it. I just kind of don't, it's just not how I think. I'm not that, I'm not that kind of person. Like, do you, do you have, like, things that you wanna, you wanna do?

• 42:08Speaker 00

  No. If anything, I resent the things I am doing.

• 42:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 42:12Speaker 00

  You know?

• 42:12Speaker 01

  You just, you go, you've got a really great job, you've got a really nice life, and every morning you get out of bed and go, oh, fuck.

• 42:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. It, well, it, it, it's, it's, I, I, I'm, I, I think we're very similar in that regard, is that I've got no ambition at all.

• 42:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:26Speaker 00

  And so you just do, you'd sort of do these things and you go, that'd be fun to do, that'd be fun to do.

• 42:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:30Speaker 00

  But the problem with it being fun.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:32Speaker 00

  Is that you agree to do it. Do you know what I mean?

• 42:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you agree to do it in a fit of energy.

• 42:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  And then that energy dips and then you find yourself having to do it and you go, oh, oh, did I say I did, okay, I did say I'd do that. Or you suddenly get a text saying, oh yeah, and what about the, you said you were free on like Thursday, the whatever, and you go, oh yeah, no, I did say that, but I kind of earmarked that for just like sitting in.

• 42:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, I know. Uh, people often say who makes you angry, and I tell you who makes me the most angry, me six months ago.

• 43:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:01Speaker 00

  Right, like, that prick.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 43:04Speaker 00

  That said I could do this.

• 43:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 43:05Speaker 00

  Like, that is.

• 43:06Speaker 01

  Busy as fuck.

• 43:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, cause like, obviously with match of the day, you're, like, that takes up a lot of your time, right?

• 43:12Speaker 01

  No, it doesn't.

• 43:13Speaker 00

  It takes up, so let me just redo that. So obviously with match of the day, it doesn't take up much of your time at all, does it?

• 43:18Speaker 01

  Like, oh my god, you're so busy. And I'm like, I work weekends.

• 43:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:22Speaker 01

  I do Tuesday nights on the radio and I work weekends.

• 43:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:26Speaker 01

  And I do a couple of bits during the week. I'm really not, people, and then, and then other, other stuff does end up taking up more time. But my, the bare bones of my sort of working week, really not that busy.

• 43:36Speaker 00

  Right.

• 43:37Speaker 01

  I spend more time on a train than anywhere else.

• 43:39Speaker 00

  Oh my god.

• 43:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, trains.

• 43:41Speaker 00

  Good luck. What's the take on trains?

• 43:43Speaker 01

  No, I hate the trains.

• 43:43Speaker 00

  You hate the trains?

• 43:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, I hate the trains.

• 43:45Speaker 00

  Really? Why?

• 43:46Speaker 01

  Because, because.

• 43:48Speaker 00

  This is good. Now, this is the kind of hot take we want. Yeah, here we go.

• 43:51Speaker 01

  I like on the trains and all the people who work on the trains are really lovely. And this is not directed at them, because they are genuinely really nice.

• 43:57Speaker 00

  Sure, sure, sure.

• 43:58Speaker 01

  Really nice people.

• 43:58Speaker 00

  You have to look like you're.

• 43:59Speaker 01

  Especially if you get an evening train when they're quite busy with the, you know, sort of, it's all quite lively. But they're not predictable and they're not reliable and I find it really stressful. I hate being late for stuff when it's not my fault.

• 44:12Speaker 00

  Hmm. Yeah, I agree. Um, World Cup, it's quite tricky, isn't it? Cause like, it, it, when you're doing Premier League.

• 44:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:20Speaker 00

  You sort of get used to, you've seen these, you know, these, you're locked in on the facts and what their background is and all of this. Then all of a sudden, I mean, it's just a bit of a different.

• 44:30Speaker 01

  And also you start the World Cup and they, they give you, and you, cause I've done them before with the BBC, but for, for radio.

• 44:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:36Speaker 01

  And you get this pack of stats, this whole book, and you, you kind of go through it at the beginning and it'll have a little bit on this and it'll have all these different stories in. And within one game for each team, the whole story's changed. And you're suddenly just like, this is, this is not where we thought this was gonna go.

• 44:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:52Speaker 01

  But you, but then you're, then you're in the sort of narrative of the, of the whole competition. But it just, it just changes. It's just completely different.

• 44:59Speaker 00

  As a, as a fan, I've got to say, my relationship with the England football team is sort of, is, like, my love for Arsenal.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:07Speaker 00

  Has remained un, un, completely unfettered. But I do feel like, um, look, you, you're talking to an idiot about football, right? So I'm fully aware that I'm talking to, it's an idiot talking to an expert. But like, I think what Gareth South, I know people criticised Gareth Southgate towards the end of his tenure. But what he has done for the perception of England football team.

• 45:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:25Speaker 00

  I think is remarkable.

• 45:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I agree.

• 45:27Speaker 00

  I'm, I know that we're both from Crawley, so I'm just. But I do, I do think, I do think, when I was growing up, when I was in my twenties.

• 45:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:36Speaker 00

  And I used to go to pubs and stuff and watch England, I didn't really feel, I didn't really feel like I could support that team. Do you know what I mean? Because I was sort of seeing the sort of stuff that people that were supporting the same team were saying.

• 45:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:46Speaker 00

  The songs that were being sung.

• 45:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:48Speaker 00

  And I've got to be honest, I stepped out of supporting England for a while because I was like, I don't know if I can be. And, but now.

• 45:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:55Speaker 00

  You sort of, I sort of feel like, I feel great for my kids because they can be proper England fans now. And that wasn't always the case, was it?

• 46:01Speaker 01

  And he's, he's amazing. And what he, he genuinely is like a really incredible person. We did a big, in, um, twenty eighteen, in, in the, um, Russia World Cup, we had a, an hour long sort of programme on him and we, where we had a psychologist sitting with us who knows him really well.

• 46:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:17Speaker 01

  And sort of broke down him as a person and how he deals with the players in the, in the squad and that kind of thing. And he's, his books, I'm not here to pluck his book, but his book is really good on all this stuff. Um, and he's, he's just a really interesting, thoughtful, intelligent human being. Who's got really good morals.

• 46:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:36Speaker 01

  And he just thinks it was, he, the England team at that stage, suddenly having had a barrier between them and the, and the press and them in the media, suddenly decided to talk about things that were important to them. And kind, and he gave them that space and said, not, not, don't talk about this. He said, go and talk about it, but make sure that you're educated on it and make sure that you're, you know what you're saying and you, if you want to talk about things, go and do it. And it made it so much more open. And they, they set up even stupid things like, you know, the Bukayo Saka on the inflatable unicorn thing in the pool. Opening all that up, they'd have darts tournaments with the media and all that kind of thing. And it just, it made them really human.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  It made them really relatable. It made them really accessible. And it made them seem like the really, um, sort of rounded group of.

• 47:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:23Speaker 01

  That they, that they are. And he, he did all of that. And now he's working with young men more broadly, which I think can only be, is really needed right now and can only be like a brilliant thing.

• 47:34Speaker 00

  Yeah. But also, uh, uh, this is not, uh, on behalf of you, Kelly, but on behalf of the rest of us at the podcast, we haven't talked about the World Cup before. We do wanna take this opportunity to congratulate Donald Trump on his FIFA World Peace Prize. And I know you felt strongly about that, didn't you? Okay, no worries. Now, we've got a little game.

• 47:51Speaker 00

  We've got a little game for you. It's called Misquoted.

• 47:54Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 47:59Speaker 00

  It's misquoted. I'm gonna give you five things.

• 48:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:02Speaker 00

  That you may or may not have said. You just have to, yeah.

• 48:05Speaker 01

  Me? Oh, god, okay.

• 48:07Speaker 00

  And you have to tell me this is what, now, sometimes we've slightly adapted what you said.

• 48:12Speaker 01

  Okay, right.

• 48:13Speaker 00

  That's a bit tricky. Not tricky. It's a fun game. It's a fun game, isn't it?

• 48:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, but the thing is, I, I get really weird about quizzes and I really hate doing badly on quizzes.

• 48:21Speaker 00

  Oh, okay.

• 48:22Speaker 01

  I feel deep shame if I do badly on quizzes.

• 48:24Speaker 00

  Okay. Well, if it makes you feel better, this is stuff that you've actually said.

• 48:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, now that makes it worse.

• 48:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, absolutely. So here's your first one.

• 48:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, go on.

• 48:32Speaker 00

  Kelly Cates, did you or did you not say this? Wearing a footy shirt is in my DNA.

• 48:39Speaker 01

  No, I would never have said that. I would never have said that. Like, that is just not, and I, I've never called football footy ever in my life.

• 48:48Speaker 01

  No, that is a hundred percent not me.

• 48:50Speaker 00

  Well done.

• 48:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 48:51Speaker 00

  Well done. The real quote is, I've never owned a football shirt.

• 48:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:55Speaker 00

  I think that's a good thing.

• 48:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do. I did have to wear one once for a shoot. Um, but I was, yeah.

• 49:01Speaker 00

  I went to an old firm game.

• 49:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh my god, that's brave.

• 49:05Speaker 00

  With Kevin Bridges.

• 49:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:06Speaker 00

  And just for fun, I tweeted.

• 49:09Speaker 01

  Jesus.

• 49:11Speaker 00

  Does any, I'm on my way to the old firm game. Does anyone know where I can get a half and half scarf?

• 49:18Speaker 00

  My phone nearly-

• 49:19Speaker 01

  Great, because, because, because, because fans of your firm teams famously have a really, really strong sense of humour about that.

• 49:26Speaker 00

  My phone nearly melted. Like, I got death threats that day.

• 49:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:32Speaker 00

  Bridges was cracking up. Anyway, here's your next one. You did really well. And also, not only did you get it right, I love the definitive way that you dismissed that. Beautiful, really good. So what I'm saying to you is, whatever happens for the rest of this-

• 49:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, we've built, we've started well.

• 49:46Speaker 00

  You've smashed it.

• 49:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:47Speaker 00

  Here's your next one. Did you or did you not say this? When you're solid in yourself-

• 49:51Speaker 01

  Oh, this sounds like me. Oh my god, already.

• 49:56Speaker 00

  I've not even finished the quote.

• 49:57Speaker 01

  It sounds like the kind of shit that I pause the television to say to my kids.

• 50:02Speaker 00

  When you're solid in yourself, you're harder to unbalance, like a weebull.

• 50:06Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, I did say that. Oh my god.

• 50:09Speaker 00

  Uh, you, this was a-

• 50:10Speaker 01

  What a dick. I just-

• 50:11Speaker 00

  It's not, it's not, it's not a dickish thing to say.

• 50:14Speaker 01

  It is the kind of thing that my, yeah, my daughters will stop me and be like, yeah, alright, fine.

• 50:18Speaker 00

  This is from your essay in Vogue.

• 50:20Speaker 01

  Yes, which makes it sound much better.

• 50:22Speaker 00

  It's time to kick on. Uh, here's the rest of the quote.

• 50:25Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 50:26Speaker 00

  In most rooms where the big decisions get made, there are many more men than women.

• 50:30Speaker 01

  That is true.

• 50:30Speaker 00

  There has to be, yeah, there has to be a deep confidence of your own, because mining is industry where everyone has an opinion, and you need to know whose matters to you.

• 50:37Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm so embarrassed.

• 50:38Speaker 00

  I actually think that's actually quite profound.

• 50:41Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm, yeah. Or it sounds like something that you could type up over a picture of a beach and put it on Instagram.

• 50:47Speaker 00

  How easy is it to do that in practice?

• 50:50Speaker 01

  What, to, to kind of be your own sort of, or now, quite easy.

• 50:55Speaker 00

  Right.

• 50:55Speaker 01

  I think when you kind of, I know, like, you get to an age where you sort of know what you like. So that's, that's sort of it. And you become more selfish, I think, as you get older, in a, in a good way. Not selfish that you don't care about other people, but just selfish in that you, you know what your priorities are and you kind of live towards them a bit.

• 51:12Speaker 00

  But I get, but also the other thing-

• 51:13Speaker 01

  I feel like I'm only gonna say something that makes me sound like more of a twat.

• 51:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, well, that's what I was hoping for.

• 51:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:18Speaker 00

  But, but, but the truth is, is like, when you've, because you're sort of, your status now is undeniable, you know? And I know it's difficult for you to say that, so then-

• 51:27Speaker 01

  Mortifying as well.

• 51:28Speaker 00

  So, but then when you-

• 51:29Speaker 01

  Because it is literally just football on the telly.

• 51:31Speaker 00

  I know, but then i- i- in that, in the world that you're in, if you say something, the, your track record means that you're commanding respect, right? Like, it's, it must be easier now than it was.

• 51:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I don't say anything. That's the thing, I don't, I very rarely give a football opinion.

• 51:48Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 51:49Speaker 01

  Like, you, like, there's much, saying that about England earlier is as much as I ever really say about football. I'm only ever really asking the question.

• 51:55Speaker 00

  Well, the thing that I-

• 51:56Speaker 01

  So it's kind of, it's respect by proxy.

• 51:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, but you have to ask insightful questions, don't you?

• 52:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, like-

• 52:02Speaker 00

  You can't just go, what did you think?

• 52:03Speaker 01

  What did you make of the goal?

• 52:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:04Speaker 01

  I mean, you really can just say, what did you think?

• 52:05Speaker 00

  Can you?

• 52:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:06Speaker 00

  Well, maybe I could do this.

• 52:07Speaker 01

  Years ago, Ed Chamberlain and I, who now does the racing on ITV, we used to do Sundays on Sky Sports, you know, probably shouldn't say it, but on Sundays on Sky Sports, we used to go there. And we used to have a guest on who would be watching the four o'clock kickoff on a Sunday, which was then not four thirty. And, um, we used to compete to see who could ask the most generic question.

• 52:28Speaker 01

  So we'd go on there and we'd go, we'd be like, uh, so, Bromish, good for the lead?

• 52:35Speaker 01

  Who's impressed?

• 52:37Speaker 00

  That's wicked. Oh, okay, well, that sounds, actually, what you do is a piece of piss.

• 52:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:41Speaker 00

  Okay, here's your next one.

• 52:44Speaker 00

  Uh, did you or did you not, but you're two for two, by the way.

• 52:46Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah.

• 52:47Speaker 00

  Congratulations. So whatever happens from here, uh, when it's your dad's workmates, they're not really that interesting.

• 52:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:55Speaker 00

  That's kind of how I first saw footballers.

• 52:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's me.

• 52:57Speaker 00

  That is you.

• 52:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:58Speaker 00

  The Mirror, January twenty-sixth.

• 53:00Speaker 01

  The Mirror?

• 53:00Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 53:01Speaker 01

  Wow, I get around.

• 53:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, you do. Not just Vogue essays. Uh, so you're three for three, well done. Did you or did you not say this? I empathise with online trolls, poor buggers.

• 53:13Speaker 01

  No. No, I would never say that. I don't, I don't think I say buggers either.

• 53:19Speaker 00

  No?

• 53:19Speaker 01

  No, I don't think that's a, I don't think that's a me word.

• 53:21Speaker 00

  None of it is true. You said, the real quote is, I block merrily.

• 53:24Speaker 01

  Oh, I do.

• 53:25Speaker 00

  Do you?

• 53:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I pre-block, I do all kinds of-

• 53:28Speaker 00

  How much abuse are you getting?

• 53:29Speaker 01

  No, I don't. That's not, that's not it. I don't, well, first of all, I'm only on Instagram now, so you get that, so there's the messages that you have to click to open.

• 53:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:39Speaker 01

  So if I don't know people, I don't look at the message, which is a shame, because I feel like it, it's nice to talk to people.

• 53:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:44Speaker 01

  And most people are nice. So I don't, I don't look in that column. And then I don't, um, and then if I see people being horrible to other people in the comments under their posts, I just block them.

• 53:55Speaker 00

  Have you seen being horrible to someone else?

• 53:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Or if I see them just being a bit snarky, I block them.

• 54:00Speaker 00

  Really?

• 54:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, even just people who are a bit like, oh, I think you're fine, I'm like, nah, block. I just block people if they just annoy me.

• 54:07Speaker 00

  I mean, football is bad for that, isn't it?

• 54:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I just don't, I don't see why those people would be in my life.

• 54:12Speaker 00

  No, makes sense.

• 54:13Speaker 01

  So I just, so I, I'd sort of made a decision a few years ago that if, I'm like, well, I can't go around and say these people aren't important to me, and then let them be in my life.

• 54:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:21Speaker 01

  So I just thought, right, well, they're not gonna be in my life then, so I just block.

• 54:24Speaker 00

  Okay, here's your last one. Um, I think football management is stressful. I wouldn't wish it on anybody.

• 54:31Speaker 01

  That sounds like me.

• 54:33Speaker 00

  You said it to the four four two website in twenty twenty-four.

• 54:37Speaker 01

  Okay. That was quite recent.

• 54:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:39Speaker 01

  That's probably why I remember it.

• 54:40Speaker 00

  Um, it is stressful, isn't it?

• 54:42Speaker 01

  It's so stressful, it's horrible. Honestly, you, you can see it in the manager's face. I know they get well paid, right? So, okay, they get really well paid.

• 54:50Speaker 00

  They get well paid, yeah.

• 54:51Speaker 01

  It is twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week. You think you've got a hard life. They are, they're on call to like twenty-something, you want me, they on, oh, it, they, their job is in jeopardy the whole time. Everybody thinks they can do it better, and people are really vicious about it. Then you've got ex-players for the club coming on and sort of slagging you off. You feel everything really personally because you care about the job. So it's not like, it's not like they can just go, I'm just gonna park the, the abuse or the criticism or whatever it is. You can't do that because you care about what you're doing. And you care about the players that you'll represent. And then your player does something stupid and you have to go out and defend them. And you're like, I don't, I don't really want to, but I need to keep this person on board.

• 55:35Speaker 01

  Then, then they have their own opinions on how they should run things. Then you've got board members and billionaire owners who suddenly decide that they know what football is and how it all works and how you should do things better. And it's just, it's not a nice job. There's very little, there's financial reward, that is true, a lot of financial reward. But there is very little other reward in the job.

• 55:57Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 55:57Speaker 01

  Like, when you win a game, a lot of them, for, a lot of them, it's just relief. And when you win a trophy, it's just like, great, that's what the expectation was to come and do it. And you enjoy it in the moment, and then the minute they're back in the dressing room, they're all telling you they're thinking about the next season and planning and going, how do I tweak this? And do you know what? And even when they win a game, they look back and go, right, how could I do that better? They're constantly looking for the faults and things. It's a horrible job. I wouldn't wish it, I'm my worst enemy. Honestly, it's not, it's not what you think it is, I don't think. And I genuinely don't understand why anybody would want to do it. I really don't.

• 56:29Speaker 00

  The, the point-

• 56:29Speaker 01

  We've had, we've had players or ex-players and managers who are out of work coming in to, to do games with us. And I've gone, I, I, I wouldn't go back in if I were you. And they'll be chatting about these, and I'm like, I just wouldn't, I, I wouldn't. And it's like, and you can see them, their eyes are sort of, I'm like, yeah, nah, I wouldn't bother.

• 56:46Speaker 00

  The, the, the thing that, the, the point you made about people thinking they could do the job better, like fans-

• 56:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:52Speaker 00

  That, that, that think, the, the, the, the, the idea, like, oh, like, listen, I've complained about Arsenal sometimes, do you know what I mean?

• 56:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that's not to say people can't have opinions.

• 57:01Speaker 00

  But I don't think I know better than the people who, yeah. Like, I might, I might disagree, but I don't know better than you.

• 57:09Speaker 01

  And there's, and there's a difference between sitting, you know, with a mate and talking about that and going, oh, I tell you, I can't believe he doesn't do that. And having a bone, because that's normal.

• 57:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:18Speaker 01

  I don't mean that, but I mean, people genuinely, some people genuinely believe they know better.

• 57:24Speaker 00

  But, but the idea that you, that you who have thought about it in your spare time-

• 57:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:30Speaker 00

  Knows better than somebody who's full-time, who's, whose entire life is devoted to it, grow up.

• 57:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:38Speaker 00

  That's my message. Uh, look, Kelly, you've been an amazing guest.

• 57:43Speaker 01

  It's been lovely, I've really enjoyed it.

• 57:44Speaker 00

  You have been fantastic.

• 57:45Speaker 01

  Well, you've been an amazing interviewer. You said you weren't good at this.

• 57:47Speaker 00

  I'm not rea-, you know, it's just sort of-

• 57:49Speaker 01

  It's just a hobby for me, I just do this casually.

• 57:51Speaker 00

  You just prod it on-

• 57:52Speaker 01

  Do you know, that cuts me, that cuts right to the heart of me.

• 57:54Speaker 00

  It's a little side hustle that's regularly number one in the charts. Uh, that, this is-

• 58:01Speaker 01

  This is, what is it, in, in Good Will Hunting, when you go, this shit's easy for me.

• 58:07Speaker 00

  Um, no, look, we've got, we've, we have one final question. We'd like to try and get a viral moment or some sort of exclusive.

• 58:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:15Speaker 00

  Very tricky. Have you got, have you got anything that you have never said publicly before that you can give to us? As far as you know, what does Jamie Redknapp sleep on now?

• 58:23Speaker 01

  Plastic sheets.

• 58:24Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 58:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:25Speaker 00

  Okay, you heard it here.

• 58:25Speaker 01

  He developed a taste for it when he was seventeen.

• 58:27Speaker 00

  I bet he did. Uh, okay, please, can you give it up for Kelly Cates, everybody?

• 58:35Speaker 00

  Thank you so much for watching and listening to this episode. Before you go, if you've enjoyed this episode and you've not subscribed, that's a bold decision, crazy behaviour. Follow and subscribe to the Bromish Wang and Ethan Show wherever you listen. It helps me, really, like, really helps me, it helps the team, and it costs you absolutely nothing. We drop episodes every Monday and Thursday. Mondays, I'm joined by great guests. Thursdays, when Mum Shadi joins me to answer your questions and family dilemmas. I'll see you Thursday with Mum Who, let's face it, is who you're actually here for. If you've got a problem you want to solve or a story you wanna share, send it to [email protected], voice note or text us on oh seven seven three one six two three three five five. We can't promise good advice, but you might end up on the show.

• 59:20Speaker 00

  See you soon.

• 59:22Speaker 02

  Oh, shut up, Romesh.

• 59:25Speaker 02

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