‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin have one day to find out if they should pod together forever after rewatching Richard Linklater’s 2004 romantic drama ‘Before Sunset.' Watch this episode on our Ringer Movies YouTube channel! Producer: Craig Horlbeck Video Producers: Jack Sanders and Chia Hao Tat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  If you're a fan of the inner workings of Hollywood, then check out my podcast, The Town on the Ringer Podcast Network. My name's Matt Bellini. I'm a founding partner at Puck and the writer of the What I'm Hearing newsletter. With my show, The Town, I bring you the inside conversation about money and power in Hollywood. Every week, we've got three short episodes featuring real Hollywood insiders to tell you what people in town are actually talking about. We'll cover everything from why your favorite show was canceled overnight, which streamer is on the brink of collapse, and which executive is on the hot seat. Disney, Netflix, who's up, down, and who will never eat lunch in this town again. Follow The Town on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:41Bill Simmons?

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• 2:15Bill Simmons?

  The Rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where we can find the big picture with Sean Finacy. That's right. House of R. Yeah. With Malley Rubin.

• 2:25Bill Simmons?

  What are you up to again?

• 2:26Speaker 04

  Any pod that'll have me, man.

• 2:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:29Sean Fennessey?

  The lady of the night of the Ringer Podcast Network.

• 2:32Bill Simmons?

  The new CR pod. You'll hear him on Off the Pike with Brian Barrett a little bit later.

• 2:41Bill Simmons?

  My name is Bill.

• 2:41Speaker 04

  Did you guys see what Amen Thompson did to the Seas the other night?

• 2:45Bill Simmons?

  My name is Bill Simmons. This is Before Sunset. We did Before Sunrise last week, and now the sequel, the classic, Before Sunset.

• 2:55Speaker 06

  Nine years ago, two strangers met by chance and spent a night in Vienna that ended before sunrise.

• 3:08Speaker 06

  They're about to meet for the first time since.

• 3:11Speaker 04

  Hi.

• 3:12Speaker 07

  Hello.

• 3:17Speaker 04

  I can't believe you're here.

• 3:18Speaker 07

  Well, I live here in Paris.

• 3:20Speaker 04

  I've wanted to talk to you for so long, you know, then now.

• 3:22Speaker 07

  Me too. How long do we have? 20 minutes and 30 seconds? Let's go.

• 3:26Speaker 04

  We've got more than that.

• 3:27Speaker 06

  Now they have one afternoon to find out if they belong together.

• 3:32Speaker 04

  I remember that night better than I do entire years.

• 3:35Speaker 07

  Do I look any different?

• 3:36Speaker 06

  What if you had a second chance with the one that got away? Before Sunset.

• 3:50Bill Simmons?

  All right, everybody. First four-person pod we've done in a while in studio. Really exciting. Mallor, you heard the Before Sunrise pod.

• 4:00Speaker 08

  Oh, yeah. I booted it up on my television.

• 4:02Bill Simmons?

  Do you want to do all your notes now?

• 4:03Speaker 08

  I thought it was a fantastic pod about a beautiful movie, and I have been meaning to reach out to Sean to discuss with him how much of his commentary about Jesse was clearly about himself.

• 4:14Sean Fennessey?

  What do you mean?

• 4:15Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 4:16Sean Fennessey?

  I just think that. You thought that?

• 4:18Speaker 08

  Lot of like, boy, this is just a really cool, smart, interesting person who's tall and thin with brown hair, and only when you get to know him do you realize how deeply insecure he is and desperate for your love.

• 4:33Sean Fennessey?

  Well, I don't know what you mean at all. I just think it's really great writing, really a great performance. I don't, I just, I admire the craft of acting that Ethan Hawke brings to that character.

• 4:43Bill Simmons?

  So Before Sunrise, 1995, but it was really set in 1994.

• 4:48Speaker 08

  Yep.

• 4:48Bill Simmons?

  Before Sunset, comes out in 2004, it's set nine years later. I'll start here. The six great questions of life.

• 4:56Speaker 08

  Well.

• 4:57Bill Simmons?

  How did we get here? What happens after you die? Who killed JFK?

• 5:05Bill Simmons?

  Why does Fantasy Log rewatchables movies on a letterbox and spoil a movie is coming just to impress a couple of dweebs? That's number four.

• 5:13Speaker 08

  Really tough start to the pod for you.

• 5:14Bill Simmons?

  I believe it was Chris Ryan who spoiled Before Sunrise, not me. Number five. He said we were doing it. I'm not done with my six questions. Number five, did Stern suspend MJ? And then the sixth great question of life. What if you had a second chance with the one who got away? Now, would you say that those are in order of importance? Can we start with JFK? We already did that part. But this movie taps into that theme. There's been other ones, this did it the best. And it's one of the many great reasons why this is an all time classic. Mal, go ahead.

• 5:46Speaker 08

  Oh, my God, just from the jump, what do I think of this movie?

• 5:49Bill Simmons?

  No, the second chance with the one who got away.

• 5:51Speaker 08

  Well, it's something that people think about forever. That's one of the reasons that Before Sunset and the entire Before trilogy is, I think, so indelible and so important to so many people. It's like simultaneously an experience that you probably feel you've never really gotten to have, right? Will I ever feel that way about somebody ever? What would it be like to feel that specific spark? And then that's just like the most deeply human and relatable thing. Second guessing your decisions. Did you do the right thing? Do you wish you could have done something differently?

• 6:23Bill Simmons?

  Should Lamar have laughed?

• 6:24Speaker 08

  Are you spending your life with the right person?

• 6:25Bill Simmons?

  Should Lamar have laughed at that pass to Andrews a little bit higher?

• 6:28Speaker 08

  It's always great to be with you and share our passions together.

• 6:33Bill Simmons?

  You do remember that, right? You're gonna wave. Liven stuff up.

• 6:36Speaker 08

  Unbelievable.

• 6:37Bill Simmons?

  Literally said you're going to wave.

• 6:41Speaker 08

  The wound is still so raw.

• 6:43Bill Simmons?

  See our second chances?

• 6:45Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I mean, it's a pretty, it's a pretty profound movie in that way where you are having this very unique experience with this film because of the time elapsed, the time lapse between the first two, right? And you're once attached to Jesse and Celine as characters, attached to Ethan Hawke and Julie Delpy as people, and then also attached to who you are, both in 94 and in 2004, 95 and 2004.

• 7:15Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 7:15Chris Ryan?

  And so there's like this triple layer of things happening that all culminates with, I think, maybe one of the greatest acts of wish fulfillment in the history of movies at the end of this film.

• 7:26Bill Simmons?

  Sean?

• 7:28Sean Fennessey?

  I think that when I watched this movie, it became clear to me that I'm nine years behind the characters and that they're making the movie every nine years. And so this movie felt a little bit more predictive about the future, which is also true for the film that comes after this, in ways that are like really impactful on your life. Because when you're a teenager, you don't really have to worry too much about what's coming in your early twenties. But when you're in your early twenties, your early thirties are kind of a scary time. And Celine literally has a nightmare about this feeling. And so just being able to capture that specific feeling would have been enough to make it a really indelible movie. But on top of that, it's so deeply romantic

• 8:10Sean Fennessey?

  and so intoxicating and so convincing. Like, I really feel like I'm watching something unfold, just like I was when I was watching Sunrise, where I'm like, these are not characters. This is not a movie. This is something that I am, I got lucky enough to observe. And it is, it is an all time movie for me, this one especially. And it works just as well on me right now as it did the first time I saw it.

• 8:38Chris Ryan?

  I saw it.

• 8:41Bill Simmons?

  In two thousand and four, summer, at the, what's the place, the Lamale, whatever.

• 8:46Chris Ryan?

  Lamley, yeah.

• 8:46Bill Simmons?

  Lamley, in Crescent Heights and Sunset. We had lived in LA for, I think, eighteen months. My wife didn't really like it in oh three, and then eventually was starting to like it. And by summer oh four, liked it. And I was at a completely different place in my life than the first time I saw it, where I was dating somebody, but I had no idea where my life was going. I was living in Boston. Nine years passed. Now we're out here, thinking about maybe lead a dog, think about maybe having a kid. And it was just a great experience. Was so excited that this movie was coming out. So I was like, man, it would be cool if they made a sequel to that. And I was like, hey, you hear they made, they're working. And then it was like, no, they're making it. And it's like, oh, I hope they don't fuck it up.

• 9:26Speaker 08

  Oh, yeah.

• 9:26Bill Simmons?

  And then a couple of people I knew saw it, and they were like, it's great. I'm like, really, it's great? It's like, and then you go, and it's like, oh, my God. Like, I remember leaving the theater, being like, I don't know what to do. Let's go get coffee.

• 9:39Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 9:39Bill Simmons?

  It was one of those, and it still is, twenty one years later. Like, I still, it still fires me up, especially the last fifty minutes. I think, I think it's one of the great movies of that decade.

• 9:49Chris Ryan?

  Oh, absolutely. It's also just like, the three of the movies, each in their unique way, you walk out and you're just like, I need, I need to talk about this movie for a really long time. I need to talk about how, you know, how my life is like that and how my life is different. And, you know, you're usually watching these with a, with a partner, you know, and you're like, it's a little, it can be a little bit tender at times, and it can be a little bit tough, but it's like.

• 10:13Bill Simmons?

  Third one.

• 10:14Speaker 08

  Yeah, should we, should we all bring our spouses to the before midnight pod? What do you think?

• 10:18Bill Simmons?

  I don't know if there's gonna be a third, third. I think people are gonna be expecting the trilogy pod, and I don't think it's happening.

• 10:24Speaker 08

  I'm there when you need me.

• 10:27Bill Simmons?

  That, that, we might be saving that for some sort of theme month, like.

• 10:30Chris Ryan?

  We're getting divorced.

• 10:31Bill Simmons?

  Pull my intestines out of my body through my rectum month.

• 10:34Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 10:35Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, I am at the age that those characters were at in that movie. And so I'm kind of eager to revisit it because I haven't seen it in a really long time. But it's it's the exact opposite feeling that this movie gives you. Also, this movie is like so much less ambitious structurally, even than the first one.

• 10:53Bill Simmons?

  Right. They have like really no side characters at all.

• 10:55Sean Fennessey?

  No set pieces, no palm reader, no palm.

• 10:58Speaker 08

  Conversation over a few sentences.

• 11:00Sean Fennessey?

  Talking. Yeah. And so you really feel like you're inside of their heads and they're giving you their inner monologues to each other.

• 11:06Speaker 08

  Right.

• 11:07Sean Fennessey?

  Which is, I mean, there are very, very few movies that are able to accomplish this. Like, no, people don't usually try it because it's not usually cinematic.

• 11:14Bill Simmons?

  Well, the other thing, so they they're also playing off the first movie.

• 11:18Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 11:19Bill Simmons?

  Which was so ambitious and works. And then they're like, well, how do we top that? And they basically just run it through. It's almost like the Goodfellas nightclub, the walk into the Copacabana scene, and they're just trying to do that as the movie.

• 11:30Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 11:31Bill Simmons?

  But watching how how nervous they are around each other.

• 11:34Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 11:35Bill Simmons?

  And how the barriers start coming down. And by the time they get into the limo. And now it's just like, fuck it. I'm just gonna.

• 11:42Speaker 08

  Incredible.

• 11:43Bill Simmons?

  I have no more secrets. I'm just gonna tell you what I think now. And by the time we get to the apartment, you just watch these. I've never had an experience like that with a movie.

• 11:51Speaker 08

  Well, it's like the sensation that you were describing of the anxiety you brought to the encounter.

• 11:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 11:56Speaker 08

  Of seeing the film. Like, there's a very meta quality to that. You know, you watch Before Sunrise and it is for us as viewers what they are for each other. It's this like magical moment in time. And then you think about it and you long for it and you wonder if anything else can ever really live up to it or match it. And then, of course, you would be nervous in the first moments of like that return. I mean, structurally, the way that the entire movie is just basically when you remove the the the opening and end credits. It's a it's a 75 minute conversation that takes place over a handful of locations. And it's, all three of the movies are very talky, but this one is particularly talky.

• 12:37Speaker 08

  And that feels so perfect because like, they're all really true to life, but that aspect just feels like if you spent nine years thinking about whether you would see this person again, and then you did. I love when they start debating the state of the world. And it's like, guys, you don't have time for this. You need to figure out if you're supposed to be together. But of course, that's what you would do. Both because you're, you're sort of trying to like, delay and evade the, where the fuck were you that Jesse finally builds up the courage to, to say out loud?

• 13:05Chris Ryan?

  Well, he says it like in a couple of different ways.

• 13:07Speaker 08

  Yeah, they're inching toward the thing they've been waiting to say to each other for nine years. And, and that just feels very true to the, what the experience would be.

• 13:15Chris Ryan?

  Can I just read something that Linklater said that's basically exactly what Mal was just talking about? He was talking to Filmmaker Magazine when this came out and he said, "To me, the tone is different. The visual style is even more minimal. And in the first one, there is a much greater time span and they were actively seeking out Vienna." They had all that possibility and a lot of time to kill. That was night too, very romantic and full of mystery and possibility. This one was just the opposite. This one's daytime. They've both got earthly obligations. We're in a town that she lives in. We're in a town that he's basically working in. He's got real life appointments. He's got to leave for the airport in 80 minutes. So the tone is very real world. And because it's sort of a document of real time,

• 13:54Chris Ryan?

  I wanted it to be a quote eloquent documentary. And I thought that was such a beautiful summary of what he accomplished in that.

• 14:01Sean Fennessey?

  That is how it plays, but with incredible oners moving through Paris, which is really hard to pull off, but also seems effortless when you're watching it.

• 14:11Bill Simmons?

  There's three different themes going on, I think. And one is that what happens if you have a second chance with somebody?

• 14:19Bill Simmons?

  The second one is how do people change over the course of a decade from their twenties to their thirties, which I think they nail with this. And then the third one, which I think she does a really good job talking about is like, She's talking about all these relationships she's had and how each one took something out of her. Right? So when you're idealistic, when you're 23, and then nine years later, and she'd been in some things and these people that she was with took little things from her that she can't get back. And what do they do with them? And even that whole road she went down, I was like, so I was like, I don't, this is never in a movie.

• 14:50Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 14:50Bill Simmons?

  What happens? Like you, you have these little pieces of yourself they give to people. I mean, everyone who's ever dated a bunch of people thinks about that.

• 14:57Speaker 08

  Sure.

• 14:58Bill Simmons?

  What it's like, it's like these, they're not gifts, whatever, these things that somebody else is just storing, you're never gonna get them back.

• 15:05Speaker 08

  She's talking about them in this point in her life, less as gifts than it's like robberies.

• 15:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, right.

• 15:10Speaker 08

  She feels bereft of something that she has given another person and then no longer has, obviously specifically with Jesse. Like, one of the really heart wrenching moments of the movie is when she says, basically, I had this like life altering night with you. And then you took everything with you and I didn't have it anymore, right? And the, the way that she speaks in general, I mean, obviously you guys, I thought, did a beautiful job in the first pod of talking about how they are, this idea of like, are you a romantic or are you a cynic? Really, they're both, both. And part of what makes the trilogy this great treatise on love and like evolution inside of a relationship is they move across the movies, but they move inside of the movies as well.

• 15:51Speaker 08

  And so when she's talking about how she would prefer to be alone, because like that's actually better than being lonely with somebody you've chosen to share your life with.

• 16:01Bill Simmons?

  Which is what's happening to Jesse.

• 16:02Speaker 08

  Yeah, and, and right. So of course he understands that keenly, but he's also like, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on. You just said, you can love and you want to be loved. She's like, right. And that's actually why I'm pissed, because you made me remember that I used to feel that way.

• 16:15Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 16:16Speaker 08

  Yeah. Like, the beauty and the devastation of that are inextricable from each other.

• 16:19Bill Simmons?

  But is it dead inside or is it dormant? And that's the other thing. And obviously it's just dormant because it comes back to life. Can we talk about Julie Delpy though? Because we were, we were three guys who all had a crush on her, talking about her in the first pod. But we didn't have the female perspective on that character in the first movie. Now the second one.

• 16:37Speaker 08

  Did you notice?

• 16:38Bill Simmons?

  So let's hear it.

• 16:40Sean Fennessey?

  I don't know what you mean. I felt like I adequately represented the female perspective in my discussion of her.

• 16:45Bill Simmons?

  No, let's hear the female perspective on Julie Delpy's character.

• 16:47Chris Ryan?

  Did Khalil Shakir get mentioned more than Julie Delpy on the Before Sunrise pod?

• 16:52Bill Simmons?

  Now, we talked about her a lot, but.

• 16:53Chris Ryan?

  We did.

• 16:54Bill Simmons?

  But, uh, your take on that?

• 16:56Speaker 08

  I mean, she's an all-timer. She is an absolute all-timer. Like, I just a queen and an icon. Everything that she does in all three of the films is perfect. I know I'm not really supposed to talk about the third movie, but I think I'll find that really challenging.

• 17:10Bill Simmons?

  We're trying to confine it to this. Don't we have to save it for pull my intestines through my rectum?

• 17:17Speaker 04

  Only talk about the two towers, not about Return of the King.

• 17:21Sean Fennessey?

  It'll be Human Centipede, Saw V, Before Midnight.

• 17:26Speaker 08

  I mean, she's the best. And like, part of the reason that they are so well matched is because they are like both utterly distinct, but also share this unique blend of like humor and charm and doubt and yearning. Like the yearning that they're both, it's just emanating off of them in waves and ripples. It's like almost unbearable. My fa- I was so glad that you two both picked The Listening Booth as the most rewatchable scene. Cause that is like genuinely maybe my favorite movie scene ever. Like, period. And the way that they're looking at each other and looking away from each other and how you can feel this like crackling desire. When you port ahead nine years to this movie and they're in the car together and you have the evolution of that.

• 18:12Speaker 08

  He, she's looking away and he turns to touch, to try to touch her hair, but then can't. And then he's looking out the window talking and she reaches for the, to cup the back of his head, but then can't. It's like, they are both able to convey something that is like so specific to their characters, but feels like just a part of their harmony together. It's perfect. Um, the reason that we have to do Before Midnight though, is not only because, hot take, that's the best movie in the trilogy, but.

• 18:39Bill Simmons?

  Oh my god.

• 18:40Speaker 04

  We're gonna lose Wilson? Hell yeah.

• 18:42Speaker 08

  Because, I mean, they're all.

• 18:43Sean Fennessey?

  Spoil that category.

• 18:44Speaker 08

  They're all perfect. They're all perfect. My favorite one genuinely is the one I happen to be watching at that moment. But I, I think I admire that one the most. Um, and we need to do the pause so that we can talk about the moment when they go into the little Byzantine church. And she is like, sorry, am I not supposed to talk about, uh, blowjobs in a church? And he's like, yeah, you, you probably shouldn't. And then she does this.

• 19:04Speaker 08

  Gotta do the movie just for that.

• 19:07Sean Fennessey?

  I think it seemed more clear to me as I watched the movies again is that the it's very purposely like a seesaw experience for how they see the world that in the first film Celine is much more openly romantic and idealistic and that he is relying on his cynicism as a shield but also you can tell that he believes some things you mentioned how he talks about his parents in the first film and that that is a defining mode for him and then in this film to your point about what's been taken from me by these men who are no longer with me or that line that she has about you know I'm the girl that guys date before they get married and there's like a wounded quality to her in

• 19:50Sean Fennessey?

  this movie and then in the third film she's extremely severe and blunt and hurt and in the third film you can feel him trying to hold on to the hope of the future and in this movie they feel like the seesaw is even they're both know that they need change that they there's still the possibility for something that they probably need each other in a very specific way and I don't know if that equilibrium is part of what makes it so exciting for me but it's it's a perfect middle point for this story and kind of relates to maybe why they didn't do a fourth one.

• 20:23Bill Simmons?

  Well, the big picture is the first one is about the idealism of everything.

• 20:27Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 20:28Bill Simmons?

  And this one is is kind of like when you've had you've had some experiences, good and bad, is it actually better because you appreciate a little bit more, kind of like how Maud didn't win the Super Bowl for 10 years and now she she'll appreciate it more.

• 20:41Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 20:41Bill Simmons?

  The next time it happens.

• 20:43Sean Fennessey?

  Joe Flacco's name.

• 20:44Bill Simmons?

  There's been some losses, some pieces taken from you, but it is it is interesting like what's what's better. Terrible. I would argue that it's still being in that first before sunrise phase of like the world is wide open. I don't really know. I haven't really been hurt yet. I still believe in all these things is a better place to be, but this is also a really interesting place too.

• 21:05Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, you know, I was thinking about the line in the be the first one in Sunrise where Jesse is talking about how he still feels like he's the 13 year old boy.

• 21:16Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 21:16Chris Ryan?

  And she feels like I feel like I have the soul of an old woman.

• 21:19Speaker 08

  Yep.

• 21:20Chris Ryan?

  And how much they change.

• 21:22Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 21:23Chris Ryan?

  In between the first and the second one, the way you guys are talking about where she becomes obviously so much more cynical and then something about what happened to him in Vienna makes him so much more of a dreamer and idealistic. But the thing that's so amazing about these movies is the way that they're they experience like this transference from those nights together and those days together. And so that they obviously change one another so much.

• 21:48Bill Simmons?

  This is my second favorite movie sequel ever. I actually went through everything to make sure that was true.

• 21:53Sean Fennessey?

  Porky's two?

• 21:56Bill Simmons?

  Godfather two.

• 21:56Chris Ryan?

  Death of the Pantera. Yeah, okay. I can't put anything over Godfather two.

• 22:00Speaker 08

  Fair.

• 22:01Chris Ryan?

  But it's on that shortlist. I had Terminator two, Aliens, Maverick.

• 22:06Bill Simmons?

  Dark Knight, which I think counts as a sequel. I'm talking about official sequels, not like the fourth movie in a thing, like just we were following up this movie with this one. Which I think goes wrong most of the time. And it's either we didn't get, you know, one person that we thought from the previous movie, we couldn't get them, or it's just like, ah, we're just, this is a money grab. This is like a true sequel in every respect, which it's weird. It just, I, why is it so hard to pull off?

• 22:36Sean Fennessey?

  It's, well, I think part of what we talked about with Sunrise that is so powerful is that the the stars are the co collaborators, the co conspirators of the story. And this movie more than any, which I'm sure we'll get into, it just feels like they have suffused so much of the story with their personal lives. So it's, this doesn't feel like.

• 22:55Sean Fennessey?

  A Lord of the Rings movie where you're like, oh, there's all this mythology to acknowledge in this world building and how are we going to do it? Or, hey, we've got this precious IP that we need to make another movie for. It's just artists trying to find a new way to communicate about how they feel about the world. For whatever reason, Richard Linklater is the only filmmaker who thinks this way. Because this isn't even the first time that they are reunited since Sunrise. Because they had that vignette in Waking Life. So he sees all of his characters and his stories on this continuum in a way that very few filmmakers do.

• 23:26Bill Simmons?

  Tarantino has a whiff of it, but he's never really fully committed to it.

• 23:30Sean Fennessey?

  He does, and people pointed out to me what I was trying to think of, which is who's the character who ports over in a film? You know, and it's Raina Colette, who's in Out of Sight, and he's also in Jackie Brown. But that's just a very uncommon thing, and it's very hard to pull that off. And, you know, it would be interesting to watch more filmmakers and actors try to pull this off of like more small-scale movies continuing.

• 23:53Chris Ryan?

  This is closer to like Michael Apted's and up series than it is The Godfather.

• 23:58Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, the Trip movies with Coogan and Bryden are kind of like this, but they were TV series in Europe.

• 24:03Bill Simmons?

  Usually it goes the way of another 48 Hours.

• 24:06Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. We've all packed some pounds on.

• 24:08Bill Simmons?

  And he put on some weight.

• 24:10Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 24:11Bill Simmons?

  And Nick Nolte's not a smoking racist anymore. Where are we? Why did this happen? Can we talk about the Oscar piece of this?

• 24:20Sean Fennessey?

  Sure.

• 24:21Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 24:22Bill Simmons?

  We have to take a break? Let's take a break and then we'll do the Oscar piece of this.

• 24:30Speaker 10

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• 24:56Speaker 10

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• 25:00Speaker 03

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• 26:01Bill Simmons?

  All right, so I try not to do this with every movie we do, but I found the 2005 Oscars for the 2004 season confusing when it happened because this movie was critically adored. And I think, I just don't really understand it. Not that we can make sense of the Oscars ever, but for Best Picture, it ended up being Million Dollar Baby won.

• 26:25Bill Simmons?

  The Aviator, Finding Neverland, Ray, and Sideways were the other ones. Best Director, he didn't, uh, didn't get that.

• 26:34Speaker 08

  Criminal.

• 26:35Bill Simmons?

  Best Actor and Best Actress, not nominated.

• 26:39Speaker 08

  That actually doesn't make sense.

• 26:41Bill Simmons?

  So Best Actor, Jamie Foxx wins for Ray. Don Cheadle, Hotel Rwanda. Johnny Depp, Finding Neverland. Leo in The Aviator. And Clint Eastwood in Million Dollar Baby. I'm Positive Ethan Hawke was one of the best five performances. Best Actress, Hilary Swank. Annette Bening being Julia. Catalina Sandino Moreno, Maria Full Grace. Amel Da Stunt and Vera Drake and Kate Winslet in Eternal Sunshine.

• 27:06Bill Simmons?

  Feel like Julie could have snuck in there.

• 27:08Sean Fennessey?

  If there were ten nominees like there are now, this obviously would have gotten in. It's also more along the lines of the kind of movie that we get in nowadays. This is in the halcyon days of big stu- these are all studio movies that are nominated for Best Picture. Million Dollar Baby, The Aviator, Finding Neverland, Ray, Sideways, all from major studios. They all have very powerful campaigns behind them, and this was a much, much smaller movie by comparison.

• 27:32Bill Simmons?

  I just don't know how many actors could have been in those parts. And especially what Julie Delpi has to do in this movie.

• 27:38Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 27:39Bill Simmons?

  Which I think is, I think she has the harder part in this movie. Cause she's all over the place and you have to pull it off without

• 27:45Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 27:46Bill Simmons?

  Seem like you're not, see our, which Julie Delpi, which Celine were you more attracted to? Before Sunrise Celine or before Sunset?

• 27:54Sean Fennessey?

  I think, I think it's

• 27:54Bill Simmons?

  Celine, cause I think it says a lot about

• 27:56Sean Fennessey?

  It's Sunset.

• 27:57Bill Simmons?

  Says a lot about us, cause I was more attracted to Sunset Celine.

• 28:00Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 28:01Bill Simmons?

  I think that says a lot about me.

• 28:03Sean Fennessey?

  What does it say?

• 28:05Bill Simmons?

  That it was just more interesting. She was crazier.

• 28:07Speaker 08

  No. No. Smoking stinks.

• 28:11Bill Simmons?

  It's like she lit that cigarette.

• 28:16Bill Simmons?

  This movie did get nominated for an Oscar for Best Adapted Screenplay.

• 28:21Sean Fennessey?

  And it's adapted because it's a sequel and all sequels need to go into the adapted category.

• 28:25Bill Simmons?

  I forgot about that rule.

• 28:26Sean Fennessey?

  I read about it when we were researching this. I guess I had known it, but

• 28:29Speaker 08

  Very silly.

• 28:29Sean Fennessey?

  I think it would have been very tough to win in either of these categories. Cause it's the year of Eternal Sunshine, which is like a masterpiece screenplay.

• 28:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 28:36Sean Fennessey?

  And Sideways, which was a phenomenon and that people really love that. We talked about it in the show.

• 28:42Bill Simmons?

  By the way, this was a kick ass movie year.

• 28:44Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 28:45Bill Simmons?

  There's a lot of good stuff from this year, like even from the comedy side, like Anchorman was this year. There's a bunch of, a good bunch of horror movies. Like I was surprised going through it. Cause in the moment where you're like, movies suck now. What's wrong with movies now? Like I would take half of 2004.

• 29:00Sean Fennessey?

  I, I would be hard pressed to think of a movie that came out this year that I like more than the one we're talking about today. This is probably, this probably, if I was doing that list back then.

• 29:07Bill Simmons?

  In 25 or 24, like?

• 29:09Sean Fennessey?

  In 2004.

• 29:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. 2.7 million dollar budget made 15 million. Our guy Raj, uh, he let us down in the previous.

• 29:16Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 29:17Bill Simmons?

  Three star, three star Raj.

• 29:18Speaker 08

  Tough.

• 29:19Bill Simmons?

  He's not understanding these boring Gen X people.

• 29:21Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 29:21Bill Simmons?

  3.5 stars for this one. Said it was a remarkable celebration of the fascination of good dialogue, but before sunset is better. That's what he said, before sunrise. Before sunset is better because the characters are older and wiser, they're more to lose or win. And perhaps because Hawk and Delphi wrote the dialogue themselves. The film has the materials for a lifetime project. Like the 7up series.

• 29:46Speaker 08

  Exactly.

• 29:46Bill Simmons?

  This is a conversation that could be returned to every 10 years or so as Celine and Jesse grow older. And yet.

• 29:53Speaker 08

  Raj was ready for before midnight. He gets it. Well, so far, they don't have to stick to the nine year thing forever, right? That was nice, but.

• 29:59Bill Simmons?

  If you're putting before midnight, one is sunset two?

• 30:02Speaker 08

  So my answer honestly is like a little complicated, which is genuinely whichever one I'm watching in real time is my favorite because they're all perfect. So like whichever one you're with, you're like, of course this is the best one.

• 30:12Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 30:13Speaker 08

  Right?

• 30:13Chris Ryan?

  I think people probably fire sunset up the most, right?

• 30:18Bill Simmons?

  I think sunset's the best.

• 30:19Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 30:20Bill Simmons?

  I do too.

• 30:21Speaker 08

  The case for sunrise, in addition to everything you guys talked about, it's just it's the only one that exists in a vacuum. So that's like a special thing.

• 30:28Chris Ryan?

  Where they didn't know, like, anything about what would happen.

• 30:30Bill Simmons?

  Good point.

• 30:31Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 30:31Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, sunrise gets a degree of difficulty because they're starting from scratch.

• 30:34Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 30:35Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 30:35Bill Simmons?

  It's a premise that probably shouldn't have worked.

• 30:37Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 30:38Bill Simmons?

  We're not going to get producer Craig's feelings on the trilogy yet.

• 30:42Speaker 08

  Did you watch the whole trilogy?

• 30:43Speaker 11

  No.

• 30:44Bill Simmons?

  I just want your feelings on this.

• 30:45Speaker 11

  I won't be watching before midnight.

• 30:47Bill Simmons?

  80 minutes. 80 minutes for the second one. Did you like, did you pass out? Were you delirious?

• 30:53Speaker 11

  Yeah, it was shorter than like most TV finales.

• 30:56Speaker 08

  Yeah. Yeah. Oh, definitely.

• 30:57Bill Simmons?

  Could you like believe it that it was 80 minutes?

• 30:59Speaker 11

  You rarely see sub 90 these days. If you see an eight in front of the runtime, it's shocking.

• 31:03Speaker 08

  It's astonishing.

• 31:04Bill Simmons?

  It's so short. I almost had that for what's age the worst. Like I kind of wanted like six more minutes. Could we have gotten like 86? As soon as they get in the back of the car, I'm like, oh my God, is this almost over?

• 31:13Speaker 08

  Not ready to be done. Yeah.

• 31:15Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but it's almost like the, uh, movies never do this anymore, but they want you leaving. Wanting more. Wanting a little bit more. Yeah, absolutely.

• 31:23Speaker 08

  You're racing against the clock, just like they are.

• 31:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, as soon as they get in the limo, it is kind of, they get off the Paris boat and it's like, oh my God, this movie's got like 18 minutes left.

• 31:31Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 31:32Bill Simmons?

  It's amazing. What is the exact perfect age to see this movie CR?

• 31:37Chris Ryan?

  I have after you're married.

• 31:41Bill Simmons?

  So whatever age that is?

• 31:42Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 31:43Bill Simmons?

  What do you think, Mal?

• 31:44Speaker 08

  I, I think I agree. Like, part of the beauty of the trilogy to me is just that you can age with them and you bring a different perspective to them when you revisit them.

• 31:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 31:52Speaker 08

  The case for this, for me, the case for this one is the best, is like building off the line from Sunrise, like the answer must be in the attempt. Like, this is about the attempt. Every movie, all three of them hinge on some sort of choice for them, but this is the one where they make the most active choice. Jesse wrote this book hoping Celine would find him. Celine went to the bookstore hoping that she would get to see him. Like, they, they really chose to try to rediscover each other.

• 32:17Bill Simmons?

  See, I went on Off the Pike hoping the girl could be very common.

• 32:20Speaker 08

  Exactly, exactly.

• 32:21Chris Ryan?

  I was like, I'd love to talk Celine, but I gotta do press box.

• 32:25Bill Simmons?

  Can I hear you on the 25th anniversary of Noma?

• 32:28Speaker 08

  Like, you can only, I think, really understand that perspective if you're a little bit older and have regrets.

• 32:37Bill Simmons?

  I think you have to be at least early 30s and either married or at least settled with who you're supposed to be with.

• 32:42Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 32:43Bill Simmons?

  You need some.

• 32:44Chris Ryan?

  Fantasy, what do you think, though?

• 32:45Bill Simmons?

  You need a basketball reference page with some seasons in it.

• 32:47Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, gotta have a couple of nicknames.

• 32:49Sean Fennessey?

  It's so, I mean, you know, my personal history, obviously, I'm married to the girl that I was dating in high school. I saw this movie with her in a movie theater. I vividly remembered it was right after we graduated from college. We'd both moved to New York together. We saw it at the Angelica. I had misremembered it when I was talking to her about it, but she remembered it cold. She remembered the entire experience. You know, there's that train that runs right next to the Angelica. So if you sit in there and shakes the seats.

• 33:11Bill Simmons?

  Oh, I like that.

• 33:12Sean Fennessey?

  And it was such a memorable movie going experience. We both loved it. We went out, we did the thing you talked about. We went out, had coffee, we talked about it for hours. We'd already loved Sunrise together. But if you look at it in one way, it's a real cautionary tale movie if you see it in your 20s. And I think I internalized that probably, that that sort of, because what Jesse says in this movie, which is something that a lot of people think that are married. Is chilling. I mean, there is a horror movie quality.

• 33:40Speaker 08

  Oh, yeah, sure.

• 33:40Sean Fennessey?

  To a lot of that confession that happens in the final 15 minutes.

• 33:43Speaker 08

  Running a nursery.

• 33:44Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, running a nursery with someone I used to date.

• 33:47Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 33:48Bill Simmons?

  Tough land.

• 33:49Sean Fennessey?

  And, I mean, the writing is brilliant in this movie, but they both get to say things that people think and do not ever verbalize. And it, so it's kind of like, it's almost like.

• 33:58Speaker 08

  If somebody hugged me, I'd dissolve into molecules.

• 34:02Sean Fennessey?

  But like, the movie is almost like a challenge if you're in a relationship too, where it's like, make sure this is what you want. Because you could turn out like these people who are 32 and are at the edge of their own sanity because of the choices that they made.

• 34:14Speaker 08

  This is so interesting. I feel like this is our version of the conversation in the bookshop about like, it's a test for you, whether you thought they showed up six months later. Like, are you the romantic, the cynic, or undecided? Because like, I definitely think that's true, but I also think you could view it the other way. It's like, it can be affirming that you don't run out of runway. Like, you can make your way back to happiness.

• 34:38Chris Ryan?

  There's just that pregnant moment where it's like, I'm your Jesse, right?

• 34:43Chris Ryan?

  Like, there's not a Jesse out there, right? You're like, still thinking about.

• 34:48Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 34:49Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 34:49Bill Simmons?

  I actually disagree with my friend Sean. I think this is an optimistic movie.

• 34:53Chris Ryan?

  Well, it's.

• 34:54Bill Simmons?

  I think, I think it ultimately is like, a lot of weird shit can happen and you could give up and think that the moment passed, but sometimes it doesn't. And you still have a chance.

• 35:04Sean Fennessey?

  I, I think you're right ultimately in the movie is ultimately on that side.

• 35:07Bill Simmons?

  But I see what you're saying about like, this really lays out the baggage that can happen.

• 35:13Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 35:13Bill Simmons?

  With some bad choices.

• 35:14Sean Fennessey?

  You know, it's, it's child of divorce, you know?

• 35:16Chris Ryan?

  Probably like.

• 35:17Sean Fennessey?

  How can I not be thinking about Henry when I'm watching this movie?

• 35:20Chris Ryan?

  If Linklater was here, he would probably say, you're both right.

• 35:24Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 35:24Chris Ryan?

  Because there are multiple realities where Jesse, where Celine just gets the day wrong and doesn't go to the bookstore. And Jesse's, his life goes on, you know? And that's the whole point of these movies.

• 35:34Bill Simmons?

  But the flip side of that is if the grandmother doesn't dash, he's in Vienna.

• 35:37Chris Ryan?

  The flip side of that is that if the German couple aren't arguing on the train, they never meet in the first place. I mean, it's just like the whole thing.

• 35:42Bill Simmons?

  That's what's great about this movie, that there's 40 different points that just could have gone bad.

• 35:47Sean Fennessey?

  It's true.

• 35:49Bill Simmons?

  Most rewatchable scene, Jesse in the bookstore. Just gonna start there. I weirdly really like

• 35:55Speaker 08

  Oh, yeah.

• 35:56Bill Simmons?

  The press conference of this random book because it's so absurd. It would never happen in real life.

• 36:00Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, please, please tell me what the book of basketball version of this was for you. Please.

• 36:04Bill Simmons?

  It didn't exist. Like, be in Paris, like, just doing like that get the hands going. Here's the thing about Kareem that a lot of people didn't realize. Like, this would just never happen, but I like

• 36:14Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 36:14Bill Simmons?

  Watching Ethan Hawke just be full Ethan Hawke.

• 36:16Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 36:17Bill Simmons?

  Just doing Ethan Hawke stuff, doing the, hey, it's like my grandfather said, to answer that, take the piss out of everything. Slightly overacting, but I'm still.

• 36:26Sean Fennessey?

  Someone's like MJ or LeBron, Bill. It's like, grand.

• 36:29Bill Simmons?

  I like how into it that one reporter is too, where she's a little like, so like, little sweet on Jesse.

• 36:35Speaker 08

  Sure. Oh, yeah. I mean, how could you not be?

• 36:37Bill Simmons?

  But then, watching her, the way they're using the flashbacks, I just think that scene is so well directed.

• 36:43Speaker 08

  So good.

• 36:44Bill Simmons?

  Cutting back and forth with the new one, and then it's that part when they're memorizing each other's face from the first movie. They're flashing back to that, and then it cuts right to her now, and it's like, oh, my God.

• 36:54Sean Fennessey?

  So good.

• 36:55Chris Ryan?

  It's also like the same cinematic language of the end of the first one, which is the

• 37:00Speaker 08

  Yes.

• 37:00Chris Ryan?

  montage of the places they were.

• 37:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 37:03Chris Ryan?

  And now it's like a montage of who they were, and it's just like, ah, shit.

• 37:06Bill Simmons?

  It's really great, and his reaction to seeing her, everything about it, it's just great.

• 37:11Speaker 08

  Well, also, like, the whole time he's talking to the reporters, he's waving his hand, like, you see a wedding ring.

• 37:16Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:17Speaker 08

  You don't know.

• 37:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 37:19Speaker 08

  Is he married to her? Like, we do not yet know.

• 37:21Bill Simmons?

  That's a good point.

• 37:22Speaker 08

  And so there's that second when you see her, and she could just be like the proud wife who's there watching her husband.

• 37:27Sean Fennessey?

  He reacts, though.

• 37:28Speaker 08

  But the second you see his face, and he's just like melting.

• 37:34Sean Fennessey?

  There's a 1.5 second pause where you're like, he's

• 37:38Speaker 08

  And you realize.

• 37:39Sean Fennessey?

  Excited and destroyed at the same time.

• 37:40Speaker 08

  And it's like this melding of heartache and euphoria because you realize that they have not been together, but also that they're there together again.

• 37:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 37:51Speaker 08

  Amazing.

• 37:52Bill Simmons?

  Good bookstore, too.

• 37:54Speaker 08

  Shakespeare and Company, incredible.

• 37:55Bill Simmons?

  I basically just have, I basically just have the whole movie as we're watching scenes, where we have the awkward walk.

• 38:01Speaker 07

  No. No, you were there, weren't you? Oh, no. Oh, that's terrible.

• 38:08Speaker 07

  Oh no, I'm laughing, but I don't mean it. Did you hate me? You must have hated me. Have you been hating me all this time? You have.

• 38:13Speaker 04

  No.

• 38:14Speaker 07

  Yes, you have.

• 38:15Speaker 04

  No.

• 38:15Speaker 07

  Oh, but you can't hate me now, right?

• 38:17Speaker 04

  I know. I mean, my grandma- I don't hate you, alright? Come on, it's no big deal, alright? I flew all the way over there, you blew the thing off, and my life's been a big nosedive since then, but I mean, it's not a problem.

• 38:27Speaker 07

  No, you can't say that. Oh, I can't believe it. I... You must have been so angry with me. I'm so sorry. I really wanted to be there, more than anything in the world, I swear.

• 38:35Speaker 04

  Honestly, I swear.

• 38:36Speaker 07

  I mean, you can't be angry now. My grandmother, I mean-

• 38:38Speaker 04

  No, I know, I know. I honestly thought that something like that might have happened.

• 38:44Bill Simmons?

  Just that whole little mini roller coaster.

• 38:45Chris Ryan?

  I also love, love him being like, "The, the book is actually a composite of you and this other girl."

• 38:51Speaker 07

  Gretchen! Gretchen!

• 38:53Bill Simmons?

  Great stuff. I also like when she says, "Do you, you think I'm neurotic? Oh my god, you must think I'm so..." And it's like, yeah, you're being neurotic right now. "At the cafe is really good. Do I look any different? Skinnier?" Oh my god, I love that part.

• 39:08Speaker 07

  Okay, come on, tell me.

• 39:13Speaker 04

  Skinnier, I think. A little thinner.

• 39:17Speaker 07

  Did you think I was fat before?

• 39:19Speaker 04

  No.

• 39:20Speaker 07

  Yeah, you thought I was a fatty. No, you thought I was a fatty. Yeah, you, you wrote a book about a fat French girl.

• 39:26Speaker 04

  No, listen. Seriously, alright? You look beautiful. Do I look any different?

• 39:33Speaker 07

  No. No, no, no. Oh, actually, you have this slime.

• 39:37Speaker 04

  I know.

• 39:38Speaker 07

  It's like a scar.

• 39:39Speaker 04

  A scar?

• 39:40Chris Ryan?

  You thought I was a little fat French girl? Wait.

• 39:44Bill Simmons?

  But most importantly, the cigarettes come out CR. I mean-

• 39:47Chris Ryan?

  We'll talk about it in a minute.

• 39:47Bill Simmons?

  Big moment for you. Yeah, we got, uh, we get quotes like, "Desires to fuel life." They're really cooking in the cafe. So good. Then we get to, Celine pretends she doesn't remember having sex with them. Yeah.

• 40:01Bill Simmons?

  In lines like, I remember that night better than I remember entire years. What'd you think of Jesse's six months later lottery winners are the same no matter what their plight is, whether they're paraplegics or rich, they revert back to where they were.

• 40:15Chris Ryan?

  Felt like, felt like when he dialed up.

• 40:16Bill Simmons?

  Felt like a bit?

• 40:17Chris Ryan?

  Sometime, sometime like, you know.

• 40:19Bill Simmons?

  Coming up later?

• 40:20Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, it's in the zone of, you know, why, how are there so many souls?

• 40:24Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 40:24Speaker 08

  Well, no, it just feels like another version of when he's like, you know, well, life's supposed to be hard. We have to suffer, however we learn. It's like, you just know that this is what he's been telling himself.

• 40:31Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 40:31Speaker 08

  Since she didn't show up at the platform, you know?

• 40:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's amazing. We've become such perverts in the last nine years.

• 40:37Speaker 08

  Oh, my God. Incredible.

• 40:38Bill Simmons?

  The boat ride, I don't know how the boat ride doesn't win most rewatchable scenes, but it's not going to.

• 40:45Bill Simmons?

  Is it possible to have a bad on a boat going slowly down Paris scene? I'm trying to think of any movie that could fuck this up.

• 40:55Chris Ryan?

  Right when they were worried about the river being full of feces before the Olympics. You'd probably be like, this is, this is harshing our mellow, but any other moment, the set is just pretty much.

• 41:05Speaker 08

  Pretty good.

• 41:06Bill Simmons?

  I just don't know a single movie that could fuck that up. It's like unfuckable, up fuck upable.

• 41:10Chris Ryan?

  It's also, for as much as this movie is so realistic and feels so like actually a second by second document, in my mind, when I close my eyes, if somebody's like, what's the perfect day in Paris? It's like the day they're, they're having.

• 41:24Speaker 08

  Yeah, of course.

• 41:24Chris Ryan?

  And even though I know it was like super hot while they were filming, it just looks like the platonic ideal of, of being in it.

• 41:31Speaker 08

  You just gotta throw in like a corner crepe or two.

• 41:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, again, not, and not quite enough eating in this one.

• 41:36Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, it's just a great way to.

• 41:37Speaker 08

  In many respects, I agree.

• 41:38Sean Fennessey?

  To experience the city, which is just to wander, to not be a tourist, but to just be somebody wandering into cafes, wandering in gardens, wandering onto a boat. It's an amazing way to experience Paris.

• 41:47Bill Simmons?

  How'd you feel about Jesse's Notre Dame story?

• 41:49Chris Ryan?

  Uh, prescient, you know?

• 41:51Bill Simmons?

  Do you think that was a real story or was that another, he dipping into the routine?

• 41:55Chris Ryan?

  I think it might've been something he heard at a bar closing time. He's like, that's a great one.

• 41:58Sean Fennessey?

  He would be an unreal podcaster, though, Jesse. He's got so many takes, so many like apocryphal anecdotes.

• 42:06Chris Ryan?

  Can I pod with him?

• 42:06Sean Fennessey?

  He should be there.

• 42:10Sean Fennessey?

  You guys would have a good book.

• 42:11Speaker 08

  For Jesse already.

• 42:12Sean Fennessey?

  Jarring with Jesse.

• 42:13Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 42:14Sean Fennessey?

  Featuring.

• 42:16Bill Simmons?

  Great. Put him on the prestige TV pod.

• 42:18Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, he would be good.

• 42:19Bill Simmons?

  Breaking down severance.

• 42:20Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 42:24Bill Simmons?

  Then we get near the end of the boat. You want to know why I wrote that book?

• 42:28Speaker 08

  So good.

• 42:29Speaker 04

  All right, now I know for sure. You want to know why I wrote that stupid book?

• 42:33Speaker 07

  Why?

• 42:34Speaker 04

  So that you might come to a reading in Paris and I could walk up to you and ask where the fuck were you?

• 42:41Speaker 07

  No, you think I'd be here today?

• 42:43Speaker 04

  I'm serious. I think I I wrote it in a way to try to find you.

• 42:48Speaker 07

  Okay, that's I know that's not true, but that's sweet of you to say.

• 42:52Speaker 04

  I think it is true. What do you think the chances were of us ever meeting again?

• 42:56Speaker 07

  After that December, I'd say almost zero.

• 43:00Speaker 07

  But you're not real anyway, right? You're just, uh, characters in that old lady's dreams.

• 43:06Bill Simmons?

  We also get the line, I guess when you're young, you just believe there'll be many people with whom you'll connect with. Later in life, you realize it only happens a few times.

• 43:14Speaker 08

  Very painful to hear.

• 43:15Sean Fennessey?

  I thought about this a lot, even set aside the romantic aspect of it, because there's a whole other way to think about the movie of just finding people that you make that connection with.

• 43:23Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 43:23Sean Fennessey?

  And when you get older, you really, or at least I do, really protect myself against that, you know, like, I don't really like over invest in long term relationships now, because I think I also don't want to get hurt in the same way in addition to being lazy. And so you're like way less open.

• 43:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 43:37Speaker 08

  No, for for sure.

• 43:38Sean Fennessey?

  When you're young, you're like, it'd be great to get laid tonight. It'd be great to make a friend forever. It'd be great just to have fun. But as your life comes smaller.

• 43:48Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 43:48Sean Fennessey?

  These opportu- like, they're kind of at a pretty significant pivot point here.

• 43:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 43:52Sean Fennessey?

  Your early 30s is when that starts to go away, you know, when you're like, I've got my people.

• 43:56Bill Simmons?

  That's when your capacity in your nightclub starts getting cut down. You go from like a 350 person capacity to like 70.

• 44:02Sean Fennessey?

  You wrote, you've wrote about this, I feel like.

• 44:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, when you hit your 40s, it turns, it's like a 25 person.

• 44:07Sean Fennessey?

  It's a social, it's like a.

• 44:08Bill Simmons?

  Like a.

• 44:08Sean Fennessey?

  Invite only social.

• 44:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 44:09Sean Fennessey?

  Speak easy.

• 44:12Bill Simmons?

  We also get, I feel like I'm running a small nursery with someone I used to date.

• 44:15Speaker 08

  Man.

• 44:16Bill Simmons?

  And if someone were to touch me, I would dissolve into molecules. There's a lot of stuff going on. Plus, the 11th and Broadway thing.

• 44:21Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 44:21Bill Simmons?

  Revelation.

• 44:22Chris Ryan?

  Oh. I.

• 44:23Bill Simmons?

  Tough one.

• 44:24Chris Ryan?

  That one fucks me, like, that fucks me up.

• 44:27Bill Simmons?

  Even on my way to my wedding?

• 44:28Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, and she's like.

• 44:29Bill Simmons?

  I thought I saw you.

• 44:30Chris Ryan?

  It basically is, you might have seen me. I forgot, like, when she said she lived there from 90.

• 44:34Sean Fennessey?

  Is this like when you saw Dana Wheeler Nicholson going to a deli in New York?

• 44:41Chris Ryan?

  I thought it was you! Edie Falco asked me for a light outside of Boat in Brooklyn in 2003.

• 44:50Bill Simmons?

  Then we get to the limo freak out, freak out, when we find out what actually happened. That she was fine until she read his fucking book.

• 44:56Speaker 08

  Magical scene.

• 44:57Speaker 07

  You know, it's not even that. I was, I was fine until I read your fucking book. It stirred shit up, you know? It reminded me how genuinely romantic I was, how I had so much hope in things. And now it's like, I don't believe in anything that relates to love. I don't feel things for people anymore. In a way, I put all my romanticism into that one night, and I was never able to feel all this again. Like, somehow this night took things away from me, and I expressed them to you, and you took them with you. It made me feel cold, like if love wasn't for me.

• 45:32Speaker 04

  I don't, I don't believe that. I don't believe that.

• 45:36Bill Simmons?

  I put all my romanticism into that one night, and then you took it with you.

• 45:40Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 45:41Bill Simmons?

  It's really, really playing all the hits for Mal.

• 45:44Speaker 08

  That seems incredible.

• 45:47Bill Simmons?

  Then he has the good joke, "I'm happy to see you even as you, even if you become an angry manic depressive activist." Little comedy in there.

• 45:55Speaker 08

  Oh, yeah, always, yeah.

• 45:56Bill Simmons?

  Really some great takes on an unhappy marriage.

• 45:59Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 46:00Bill Simmons?

  Where you really, for the full depths, like, oh, man, this guy. And when he says, uh, when he says the thing about. He, it's all worth it because he doesn't wanna give up one minute with the kid or whatever that line is. And it's like, yeah, there's a million people like that who are like, you know what? I'll suffer the rest of this because I don't wanna miss anything with this child that I created.

• 46:20Speaker 08

  It's so sad because then he goes right into like, but there's no joy or laughter in my home.

• 46:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 46:25Speaker 08

  It's like, I don't wanna get to 52 and finally have to like, admit that this was all a pretense and I don't love my spouse.

• 46:33Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 46:33Speaker 08

  Very tough to hear.

• 46:35Bill Simmons?

  Then she, then she's like, wait, I'll get sadder than this after she almost touches his head.

• 46:40Speaker 08

  But then he says that he's had sex 10 times in four years. So it's like, he's doing great.

• 46:46Bill Simmons?

  Put that thing away.

• 46:47Speaker 08

  He's driving. Why?

• 46:52Speaker 08

  That's exhausting.

• 46:56Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. How do you not have 10 kids?

• 46:59Sean Fennessey?

  The, the thing about this scene to me, which is my favorite scene in the movie by far, and I think is one of the most incredibly well-written scenes.

• 47:06Bill Simmons?

  And like a movie history. For?

• 47:09Sean Fennessey?

  It feels like eight or nine minutes.

• 47:10Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's like, um, at least nine.

• 47:12Sean Fennessey?

  The thing I really, that really hit for me this time when I was watching it is we actually do see a lot of scenes like this now in popular culture because everything is so therapized and people are all about finding ways to talk about your feelings. But it's done using the language of therapy. This is a scene where people are really honestly talking about how they feel their most vulnerable feelings in the world. Like you can, what they share together is very, very intimate. But it has none of the like casing of that language.

• 47:43Speaker 08

  This was traumatic.

• 47:44Sean Fennessey?

  Exactly. All of those like.

• 47:46Bill Simmons?

  I was triggered when you weren't there.

• 47:48Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. All those buzzwords, all that like, I'm signaling to you my pain. It's none of that. It's like super fucking real.

• 47:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 47:55Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. And if you think about where these two actors were at in their real lives.

• 47:59Speaker 08

  Totally.

• 47:59Sean Fennessey?

  You can feel them putting their lives into what they're saying.

• 48:02Bill Simmons?

  Well, we should mention that. He's getting divorced from Uma Thurman. What was going on with her?

• 48:07Sean Fennessey?

  Um, I think, I think that they were just raising young kids and that they were both working people and that they were falling out of love in a way.

• 48:14Speaker 04

  But what was going on with Delphi?

• 48:15Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, well, she's been married a couple of times now. She has had many boyfriends over the years. And I think because she was, she was such an ingenue in Europe and such a kind of like desired woman because she was had such um fame in the movie culture that I think she always had a complicated relationship to the way that she was viewed versus how she viewed herself. And so like, if you look at her career now, like she's directed eight movies, she's written a lot of those movies, like she's, she's more than what she was presented as basically when she was a teenager.

• 48:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 48:46Sean Fennessey?

  And was like kind of a lust object.

• 48:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 48:48Sean Fennessey?

  And so I think she is bringing all of those feelings into what she wrote in that sequence too. So it's just, it's very painful and very impactful, but just feels very true.

• 48:57Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 48:57Bill Simmons?

  The good news is she's not a lust object anymore and nobody was online last night looking for photos of her smoking to send a CR. I didn't do that at all.

• 49:06Speaker 04

  And I did not respond with.

• 49:08Bill Simmons?

  And he did not respond. That never happened. She's not a lust.

• 49:12Speaker 04

  Calls from the Google image search Julie Delphi smoking.

• 49:16Bill Simmons?

  There's no evidence that any of those moments happened.

• 49:21Sean Fennessey?

  Was that on your AirGAP iPad that you use for all Delphi materials?

• 49:26Speaker 04

  That's the one where all of all my off the pike research happens there.

• 49:31Bill Simmons?

  She also says, I think I might have given up on the whole idea of romantic love. I might have put it to bed that day when you weren't there. Because she's like, how do I trump this guy bearing his soul to me? I'm gonna just say I'm dead inside. And that's where we land as we head to the last 15 minutes of the movie. We get a walk. We get the song. Nina Simone and we get, baby, you're gonna miss this plane.

• 49:53Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah.

• 49:59Speaker 07

  Baby, you are gonna miss that plane.

• 50:05Speaker 06

  I know.

• 50:15Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 50:16Speaker 08

  Man.

• 50:16Bill Simmons?

  So it's either between the limo or the end of the movie for me. I would go with the ending just because I think it's one of the best last 15 minutes of movie ever. And the song is just, especially the first time you see this movie, the song is like just one of the breathtaking.

• 50:32Sean Fennessey?

  When she sings to him.

• 50:33Bill Simmons?

  When she sings the Walt song. It's one of the great moments of this century in a movie.

• 50:39Speaker 07

  You meant for me much more than anyone I've met before. One single night with you, little Jesse is worth a thousand with anybody. I have no bitterness, my sweet. I'll never forget this one night.

• 51:11Bill Simmons?

  Like, and she's so good at performing it.

• 51:13Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 51:14Speaker 08

  It's incredible.

• 51:14Bill Simmons?

  Just the lyrics and everything, the whole movie leads up to that moment and then it like crushes it. It's like a sports scene.

• 51:20Speaker 08

  Yeah. And again, it's just something about it that feels so true. If you have never written a love song for somebody you then thought about and yearn for for nine years, you can't relate to that part of it. But the like, she's so embarrassed, right? She's so embarrassed.

• 51:34Bill Simmons?

  But she's also so good at it.

• 51:35Speaker 08

  But she's so, yeah, like it's a very natural continuation of the, the car scene because there's just like unburdening.

• 51:41Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 51:42Speaker 08

  I'm not just singing this, I'm finally singing this to the person it was about. I would pick the car ride as, as the most rewatchable scene and the best scene, but the single best moment in the movie, other than I guess on the bench when she's like, what do you think of the word pussy? It's like, I love it. Other than that, is his face when she says his name.

• 52:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 52:05Speaker 08

  It is unbelievable.

• 52:08Sean Fennessey?

  He like widens his eyes. Yeah, she makes a lot of great facial gestures while she's singing where she's like rolling her eyes at herself.

• 52:16Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 52:16Sean Fennessey?

  She's trying to remember, but then she remembers perfectly her like anxiety about saying the word Jesse that is communicated only on her face. I mean, it's like a

• 52:24Speaker 08

  Beautiful.

• 52:24Sean Fennessey?

  It's mesmerizing. The last 20 minutes of the movie are just

• 52:27Chris Ryan?

  It's

• 52:28Sean Fennessey?

  They hold you.

• 52:29Chris Ryan?

  The limo scene, like it, the, her reaching out to him and not touching him. I was like, this is like when Christian Laettner hit the shot to beat Kentucky. And the crowd is going wild, but Thomas Hill is sobbing. That's me. In the crowd freaking out, but also like walking around crying.

• 52:49Sean Fennessey?

  It's real.

• 52:51Chris Ryan?

  Like to me, the way that they, cause you think about that, that's almost like, do they do coverage? I think it's mostly an uninterrupted shot.

• 52:58Bill Simmons?

  No, it's uninterrupted.

• 52:59Sean Fennessey?

  There's no cut. I don't think there's a cut.

• 53:00Chris Ryan?

  So just even for her to time it so that she goes for his head. I don't even know if that was like improv or what.

• 53:06Bill Simmons?

  Cause she like about 10 seconds before she starts to do it, but he turns.

• 53:10Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 53:10Bill Simmons?

  So she's like.

• 53:11Chris Ryan?

  I was like, that to me is harder than like the fucking liquid Terminator in T2.

• 53:16Bill Simmons?

  To act in a limo is just like bizarre.

• 53:18Sean Fennessey?

  It's tight.

• 53:19Bill Simmons?

  They're moving around.

• 53:20Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, you got Philippe up there. Who knows?

• 53:22Bill Simmons?

  There's a disco driver.

• 53:25Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, I think, I can't get out of my head for the, since the moment I saw it, you go by and you go by and you go by and you go by. And the way that he delivers that story about the dream is so.

• 53:35Chris Ryan?

  That's the last second he sees her is her going by on the train.

• 53:37Bill Simmons?

  It's a cop out, but the answer is everything from the Bodan. But then if you go everything from the limo, but if this movie's on, it's like, oh, they're in the limo. I'm gonna watch this.

• 53:46Sean Fennessey?

  And it's so achievable. It's 78 minutes of movie that you can just get through.

• 53:49Bill Simmons?

  I would pick the waltz as the single, the single most for me. Uh, what's the most 2004 thing about this movie? What do you have?

• 53:58Chris Ryan?

  Uh, Celine's freedom fries joke.

• 54:00Speaker 08

  Mmm.

• 54:01Sean Fennessey?

  Great pick.

• 54:01Speaker 08

  Really good one.

• 54:02Chris Ryan?

  Globalism takes.

• 54:03Bill Simmons?

  That's a good one.

• 54:03Speaker 08

  That's a very topical, good one.

• 54:05Chris Ryan?

  Globalism takes.

• 54:05Bill Simmons?

  I was gonna say no Facebook and how easy, if it's two years later, they're hunting each other down.

• 54:11Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 54:11Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 54:12Bill Simmons?

  The fact, and I have some questions about why they couldn't have hunted themselves down in 2004. We had enough technology at that point. It's, we'd email, we'd Google, there's.

• 54:22Chris Ryan?

  Does he even know her last name?

• 54:23Speaker 08

  No, but she knows his now because of the book.

• 54:25Sean Fennessey?

  Because of the book.

• 54:26Speaker 08

  That's the thing.

• 54:26Chris Ryan?

  Well, he also, didn't he say?

• 54:28Sean Fennessey?

  He must have known her last name. They must have exchanged full names. Cause how would she have stumbled upon the book?

• 54:33Bill Simmons?

  You know what her last name was? Smoke show.

• 54:38Bill Simmons?

  No, I don't know.

• 54:38Chris Ryan?

  Selene.

• 54:40Bill Simmons?

  Can someone translate that for us into French? What's age the best? What do you got, Mallory?

• 54:46Speaker 08

  For what's age the best? I mean, everything, literally everything. Obviously, the two leads and their just their chemistry and their involvement and imbuing their own experiences into the story. I think for me, it's time, like both the way that the movie is shot as a real time. We've got this 80 minute block until you're supposed to catch your flight, but also just in general, like Linklater's interest in time, his fascination with time. This trilogy, Boyhood is one of my favorite movies. I absolutely love that movie. He's now attempting to do this with Merrily We Roll Along. Like, he's just obsessed with time and the way that they talk about time. And I love, like, Jesse at the book event at the opening when he's quoting Thomas Wolfe and saying, you know, we're all the sum of the moments of our lives.

• 55:28Speaker 08

  Like, each movie being a day, a part of a day, set nine years apart. It could have been 10, but it's not. Like, why is it nine instead of 10? It's just these little touches.

• 55:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 55:39Speaker 08

  Ah, yeah, I mean, it's just, I love that part of it. And then the way that the time travel is in every movie in some way. You know, like when Jesse's pitching his next book, talking about the pop song and porting across time with this link in your life. And obviously, the time traveler is a character who he invokes in the first film and, you know, won't spoil the return of the time traveler in the third movie, but plays a very crucial role, the idea of time travel in the third movie. So I just love the way they talk about time and the way that the movie engages with time and how it's made. I think my other big age the best is just the restraint. Like, they don't kiss in this movie. Forget fucking. The only time we see them kiss is in the flashback footage from Sunrise.

• 56:22Speaker 08

  And the hug because of that, when she says, I want to try something and hugs him goodbye, like. I just want to sob.

• 56:32Sean Fennessey?

  But when she's doing her little Nina Simone dance, it's like one of the sexiest scenes in movie history.

• 56:37Speaker 08

  Oh, my God, yeah.

• 56:37Sean Fennessey?

  Despite the fact that they're not, they're 10 feet away.

• 56:39Speaker 08

  Exactly. It's all about the longing.

• 56:41Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 56:43Bill Simmons?

  Do you have any?

• 56:43Chris Ryan?

  Uh, a lot of the callbacks to Sunrise, like, um, walking through the cemetery. She says, do I think when she's like, what do I look like the way you remember me? He's like, I have a, I had a pretty clear picture of you because he took the mental picture of her. Before they leave, uh, Celine talking about having a 13 year old's perspective. That was Jesse's bit in the first movie. Um, and then another, what's aged the best was Celine almost calling Notre Dame burning down. Because she's like that all this Notre Dame, Notre, Notre Dame will be gone one day and almost, almost was.

• 57:15Speaker 08

  Very sad.

• 57:16Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 57:16Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 57:17Bill Simmons?

  That's a really good one. It's a sad one, but it's a good one. I had a, how they, they're talking about serious early 30s stuff as small talk. Whereas when they were in their twenties, they wouldn't have done that. They would have just been like, ah, Vienna, and you do like that idealistic shit.

• 57:34Sean Fennessey?

  But it's a little bit of a crutch because they're afraid to talk about what they really want to talk about. So it's like, it's work.

• 57:38Bill Simmons?

  It's like, whoa, whoa.

• 57:39Sean Fennessey?

  The state of the world. These platitudes.

• 57:41Speaker 08

  Like you got such a great job.

• 57:42Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Yeah. It seems like a little bit fake, a little bit forced.

• 57:47Bill Simmons?

  That's early, your early 30s.

• 57:48Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 57:49Bill Simmons?

  Um, this is a really good one. I'm surprised, uh, when you didn't mention it. The living in New York at the same time with somebody else and not realizing they were there.

• 57:57Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Yasi Solak.

• 57:59Bill Simmons?

  Big city thing.

• 58:00Sean Fennessey?

  This the other day.

• 58:01Bill Simmons?

  The tea.

• 58:02Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, Yasi, who he worked with.

• 58:03Chris Ryan?

  We live in New York.

• 58:04Bill Simmons?

  We know Mal.

• 58:05Sean Fennessey?

  We were going to the same bars and the same shows.

• 58:07Speaker 08

  Across the street, literally across a building, a apartment building across the street from Ben Lindbergh before I knew him.

• 58:11Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 58:11Speaker 08

  True.

• 58:13Bill Simmons?

  Even being alone, it's better than sitting next to your lover and feeling lonely. Callback to Neil McCauley. I'm not lonely, I'm alone.

• 58:22Chris Ryan?

  Definitely. What was going through everybody's mind at that time?

• 58:25Sean Fennessey?

  We were channeling Neil.

• 58:26Chris Ryan?

  Can I just shout out one thing that's aged the best, that's probably the hottest anyone's ever looked is when Delpi's on the boat on this end, the wind blows her blouse up for a second.

• 58:36Bill Simmons?

  A little side, side waist.

• 58:38Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 58:39Speaker 08

  And then that comes back when she's dancing.

• 58:40Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, thank you.

• 58:41Speaker 08

  The split in the back of her shirt.

• 58:42Chris Ryan?

  Makes me want to do Bill Simmons Celtics drafted James Young fist.

• 58:46Speaker 08

  It's, and it's, it's perfect because they're always talking about little body parts. Like when he mentions the dream, he's like, I touched your ankle.

• 58:52Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 58:52Speaker 08

  And your skin was so soft, you know? She's like, you're, you've got this, like this line right here. It's like a scar, the, the, the red in your beard. It's these little pieces of each other.

• 59:03Bill Simmons?

  I would suffer all the torture to be there for all the minutes of his life was the divorce quote. That's just a good quote.

• 59:08Speaker 08

  Well.

• 59:09Bill Simmons?

  Um, middle finger tricks.

• 59:10Speaker 08

  I wonder if that will have a bearing on the third film in the trilogy.

• 59:13Bill Simmons?

  Middle finger tricks?

• 59:14Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 59:15Bill Simmons?

  Always been a sucker for those.

• 59:16Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 59:16Speaker 08

  It's good.

• 59:17Bill Simmons?

  And, uh, I don't really like cats, but good performance by the cat.

• 59:21Speaker 08

  I've got some.

• 59:23Chris Ryan?

  No, you're not a cat guy. Or I thought it was just more of like, you didn't mind them, but there was just, you have dogs.

• 59:28Bill Simmons?

  I'm a dog guy. I feel like you have to choose. I don't think you can be both.

• 59:30Speaker 08

  You don't have to choose. There's enough room in your heart to love all animals.

• 59:32Sean Fennessey?

  I think also the primacy of bookstores.

• 59:35Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 59:35Sean Fennessey?

  And of the international book tour.

• 59:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 59:39Sean Fennessey?

  These are not as common, these things.

• 59:41Bill Simmons?

  I'm going to say they weren't common in 2004.

• 59:44Speaker 08

  Got some questions.

• 59:44Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, okay. Interesting. Yeah. So this book not a, not enough of a success to justify?

• 59:49Bill Simmons?

  It had to have been a monster book. We can talk about that.

• 59:51Speaker 08

  That's like literally my.

• 59:53Sean Fennessey?

  This book is not about the NBA though, mind you. This isn't, this is a story that can be translated across time.

• 59:57Bill Simmons?

  It's a bestseller. A minor bestseller.

• 59:59Speaker 08

  Minor, minor.

• 1:00:00Bill Simmons?

  So that means like New York Times extended list. It's like number 22. Just don't think he's getting a European book tour.

• 1:00:07Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:00:07Sean Fennessey?

  But what if?

• 1:00:08Speaker 08

  It's like the only picking it on the entire movie.

• 1:00:09Sean Fennessey?

  What if he's big in France? Like we do have American artists who don't translate.

• 1:00:13Chris Ryan?

  There's more journalists there than there are fans.

• 1:00:15Speaker 08

  And he says, he says it's 10 cities in 12 days.

• 1:00:18Bill Simmons?

  What's the big newspaper in Paris? Le Monde? The Lamond editor is like, hey, who do we have going down to the bookstore for Jesse Wallace? No, no, that's not enough. He's number 24 on the extended bestseller list. I need one person who believes in cynicism. Well, there's a fire downtown. Don't we want someone to cover that? No, no, we need to be at the bookstore. Great shot, Gordon Award, most cinematic shot. What do you got, Sierra?

• 1:00:40Chris Ryan?

  There is a moment on the, on the boat ride on the send where he's got his face, he's facing the camera, but he's looking at her. She's looking out, uh, off the boat and the sun is like illuminating her hair. It's like a halo and you're just, I, I don't know how they did that, how they caught it, how that happened.

• 1:00:57Sean Fennessey?

  He said that they only shot at the same time of day every day.

• 1:01:00Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:01Speaker 08

  They have continuity. Which is crazy then when you consider it was only a 15 day shoot.

• 1:01:04Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:05Speaker 08

  Like they had to fucking nail every day.

• 1:01:06Sean Fennessey?

  You get the impression this was a very difficult movie to make despite how modest it is.

• 1:01:11Bill Simmons?

  I'm, I actually like the very, very ending for most cinematic shot, that she's dancing and turning and it just, the way it fades out is really, really well done.

• 1:01:20Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:01:20Bill Simmons?

  Cause you don't know if the movie's done yet. And then it's like, no, no, not only we're done, we're gonna fade out.

• 1:01:26Sean Fennessey?

  One thing I, one scene that I love is when they're showing up to her apartment for the first time and they're walking in and the woman comes out of the doorway and which is her real life mother. And the camera turns and for one of the only times in the whole movie, the camera is not on one of them.

• 1:01:40Speaker 08

  Hmm.

• 1:01:41Sean Fennessey?

  And it's on the courtyard and you see that there's this meal, this sort of barbecue that's happening and her real life father is there cooking. And it is a five second snapshot of what it would be like to live here. And you just understand everything immediately. And it's like incredible storytelling.

• 1:01:59Sean Fennessey?

  But that's like, he never, he never takes us away from them, except for that one moment.

• 1:02:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's interesting. You're right.

• 1:02:05Sean Fennessey?

  It's a weird, but a cool choice that they make.

• 1:02:08Bill Simmons?

  Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happiness, so where best needle drops gotta be the Nina Simone song, cause it's the only needle drop.

• 1:02:13Chris Ryan?

  But it, inspired by your speculation in the last pod about 94 songs or 95 songs that they could have picked. It is really funny to imagine Jesse putting Drop It Like It's Hot by Snoop Dogg.

• 1:02:26Chris Ryan?

  You heard this? Neptune's produced this. These guys are great.

• 1:02:33Chris Ryan?

  They're doing amazing stuff with hip hop production now. To the land.

• 1:02:38Speaker 08

  Oh my god.

• 1:02:39Sean Fennessey?

  Then I really would have related to Jesse.

• 1:02:41Chris Ryan?

  But don't you think that Celine's like, cool, get in your fucking limo.

• 1:02:44Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:02:46Bill Simmons?

  Denethys Benny Hana Award scene still in location. We don't always give this one out, but I really liked her apartment complex. And just that whole building, everything was really neat.

• 1:02:54Speaker 08

  It's great.

• 1:02:54Sean Fennessey?

  Well, he's like, when they're driving in, he's like, you live here? He's like so blown away by how beautiful it is.

• 1:03:00Bill Simmons?

  You don't get to give this one out either that much. The Molly Rubin Award. Did this movie need a better sex scene?

• 1:03:05Speaker 08

  No, it's the rare, possibly only, maybe I've said once before, no, I think no. It's perfect. The fact that you are experiencing the same like desperate desire.

• 1:03:18Speaker 08

  I don't know if that category made it into the Sandlot pod.

• 1:03:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I don't think I snuck it in.

• 1:03:22Speaker 08

  Um, yeah, you have to be in the same place as viewers that they are. You're just like consumed by your need. And then you leave and you wonder.

• 1:03:32Bill Simmons?

  We'll take a break and then CR is going to do his flex category.

• 1:03:35Speaker 08

  Oh my god.

• 1:03:41Speaker 12

  Reports due to then meeting prep, then.

• 1:03:44Speaker 02

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• 1:04:25Speaker 02

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• 1:04:41Speaker 10

  The best part of waking up, a full cup of Folgers coffee and music on full blast.

• 1:05:13Bill Simmons?

  All right, CR, flex category. What do you got for us?

• 1:05:15Chris Ryan?

  The Sean Penn, "I brought my own pack" award for excellence and on scene smoking goes to Julie Delpi.

• 1:05:21Speaker 08

  Hell, yeah.

• 1:05:22Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 1:05:22Chris Ryan?

  At the La Pure Cafe.

• 1:05:24Bill Simmons?

  I feel like she didn't smoke enough.

• 1:05:25Chris Ryan?

  Well, nobody smokes enough in these movies, but knowing that Julie Delpi, there's a not so long ago Guardian profile of her that opens with Julie Delpi is smoking. She is constantly smoking.

• 1:05:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I have it here. Julie Delpi smokes and smokes. She smoked so much she should consider wearing ashtrays as trinkets. It's the first two.

• 1:05:45Speaker 08

  Your dream woman.

• 1:05:47Chris Ryan?

  Honestly pornography, yeah. Um, no, she, uh, I, I love also that he gets so excited that she's smoking, has a drag, gets his own, lights it off of hers. True smoker behavior. Respect.

• 1:06:02Speaker 08

  Wonderful.

• 1:06:03Bill Simmons?

  We were, I'm still upset that they didn't smoke in the first movie. That's fine. The butcher's girlfriend award, weak leak in the film. I mentioned this earlier. I just felt like they could have done a slightly better job of trying to find each other. If this was the true love of your life and you've never been the same since it didn't work out that day, I just feel like by 2004, you could maybe hunt the person down.

• 1:06:24Sean Fennessey?

  You get the impression that she didn't go the extra mile.

• 1:06:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:06:29Chris Ryan?

  She's pretty busy. She was in New Delhi. You know, it's like all consuming.

• 1:06:32Bill Simmons?

  Pretty busy.

• 1:06:33Sean Fennessey?

  She was in New York for four years. She was in the United States of America for four years.

• 1:06:38Speaker 08

  Yeah, but didn't know his last name at that point.

• 1:06:41Sean Fennessey?

  We had, we had AOL at that time.

• 1:06:44Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:44Sean Fennessey?

  You know.

• 1:06:45Speaker 08

  How many Jesses are in Texas from her?

• 1:06:47Bill Simmons?

  I just feel like she would have known his last name by the end of spending 20 hours together in Vienna.

• 1:06:51Chris Ryan?

  What is his last name?

• 1:06:52Sean Fennessey?

  Wallace.

• 1:06:55Bill Simmons?

  What's age the worst? I really have nothing other than I wanted Delpy to take a couple more puffs from the cigarette. She might say she takes one and then really doesn't smoke it anymore.

• 1:07:04Chris Ryan?

  I'm not sure to be a dick, but can we just talk this out? Can we have the meeting? Jesse's second novel idea is not good.

• 1:07:11Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:07:11Speaker 08

  The pop song one?

• 1:07:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that that idea was.

• 1:07:14Speaker 08

  Hmm.

• 1:07:14Bill Simmons?

  That was like a bad podcast pitch.

• 1:07:16Speaker 08

  I liked it.

• 1:07:17Sean Fennessey?

  And yet, what he says.

• 1:07:19Chris Ryan?

  Zag for me.

• 1:07:20Sean Fennessey?

  Fits very well into my flex category.

• 1:07:23Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:07:23Bill Simmons?

  Oh, we can do that right now.

• 1:07:25Sean Fennessey?

  So my flex category is a three-way tie. It's the Dracula the Musical Award for Best Imitation of Real Art.

• 1:07:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:33Sean Fennessey?

  The three things that are tied are Celine's song, A Waltz for a Night. The cover of Jesse's book, which is called This Time, which looks like a real novel that you would have seen at Barnes and Noble in 2004.

• 1:07:45Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:07:45Sean Fennessey?

  And the third is the answers that he gives during his impromptu press conference after his and including his quote unquote reluctance to share what he's gonna say for his next novel.

• 1:07:57Chris Ryan?

  Five-minute monologue.

• 1:07:58Sean Fennessey?

  And then immediately reveals it in full to French journalists at the end of his book tour. And the idea is super flawed and kind of stupid. And yet, the way that Ethan Hawke has an amazing ability to do in being interviewed imbues it with so much quote unquote, meaning.

• 1:08:14Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:08:14Sean Fennessey?

  That you're like, I might read that book.

• 1:08:16Speaker 08

  It's a preorder for me.

• 1:08:17Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:18Speaker 08

  No doubt.

• 1:08:19Chris Ryan?

  Isn't it also?

• 1:08:20Speaker 08

  Absolutely no doubt.

• 1:08:20Chris Ryan?

  That his, like in the, in, like, if I remember correctly, he's like, his daughter who is talking to him reminds him of the girl he loses his virginity to.

• 1:08:30Speaker 08

  Yes, that part is a little weird. In the proud tradition of I'm an old woman and you're a 13-year-old boy, there is a little bit of oddness to it. But this is again, like a through line for Jesse. You guys talked about like, did Jesse invent YouTube and live streaming, like the 24-hour program idea? Then he has this pitch for the, the whole book takes place in the span of a pop song across time. You know, without getting into any of the particulars about where we find them and before midnight, when he, he's, there's like a seven-minute scene where he's ripping off, here's what my next book is gonna be about. And everybody has their own, and the other guy's just like. This idea doesn't make sense. And even the way you were describing it is clearly not accurate. And Jesse's like, here's why it's great. And I'm like, I side with Jesse. This is just his thing.

• 1:09:14Chris Ryan?

  I'm just, it's sophomore slump. That's what I'm saying.

• 1:09:16Sean Fennessey?

  Is Jesse a great artist? Or is he the future inventor of meta? Like, he, a lot of his ideas are like, kind of where we are with technology. A lot of the time, they're much less having to do with creativity.

• 1:09:30Bill Simmons?

  Bitcoin? What if I could just pay somebody? I didn't like the second novel idea. I had it in picking knits that he would just volunteer to these strangers.

• 1:09:40Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:41Speaker 08

  Like, workshopping it.

• 1:09:42Bill Simmons?

  It was probably my biggest nitpick in the movie. Because if you have an idea, the last thing you want to do is be like, what do you guys think? Because then somebody else could just write it and take it.

• 1:09:52Chris Ryan?

  You just, you know, that one French journalist who was being kind of a hardo. Who was like, there's no way they got back together. He's just like, I would write the pop song novel. Well, this is lazy American.

• 1:10:04Sean Fennessey?

  He was kind of the Woj on LeBron circa 2012.

• 1:10:07Speaker 08

  Anyone could just like tweet about it. So that's helpful.

• 1:10:09Bill Simmons?

  Does anyone have a CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford hottest take award?

• 1:10:13Chris Ryan?

  I do.

• 1:10:14Speaker 08

  I have a hot take.

• 1:10:15Bill Simmons?

  Okay, let's, let's hear it, CR.

• 1:10:17Chris Ryan?

  Uh, Jesse kind of fucks over his wife and Celine fucks over her war photo journalist boyfriend, who's probably in a war zone when she decides to get back together with this guy.

• 1:10:26Speaker 08

  Yeah, I don't know. Last night was rewatching this and I asked Adam, what do you think the lesson of the movie is? And my husband said to me, we had a very like sensible measure conversation. He's like, it's probably like, try to find your first love again. And I was like, yeah, is it like, it's like, okay to cheat on your spouse?

• 1:10:41Chris Ryan?

  I, I mean, just to say, if you shot, if you could make.

• 1:10:45Sean Fennessey?

  I'm married to my first love.

• 1:10:46Chris Ryan?

  Before sunset, from the perspective of Jesse's wife, who's home with a five year old boy, waiting for him to get back from this lark of a book tour for his like, kind of bestseller novel. When she knows this second novel is not going to take off because it's a stupid idea. And she's like, okay, when you get back, you have to take the kid for like a week. And then it's like, yeah, hey, like, when, when does he make the phone call to be like, crazy thing happened, missed the flight, but like, I'll jump on one in a couple of days.

• 1:11:15Bill Simmons?

  I think when your sex PR is under three, all bets are off.

• 1:11:23Sean Fennessey?

  That should be part of the Prime Video's Amazon X-ray feature is that you can see the sex P E R for every character on screen at any given time.

• 1:11:32Speaker 08

  That would be great.

• 1:11:33Sean Fennessey?

  That would give a lot of depth.

• 1:11:33Chris Ryan?

  I was also thinking like she in Midnight, he wants to move to Chicago to be closer to the sun. So I don't know if they're living in Chicago at the time.

• 1:11:41Speaker 08

  She thinks he wants that.

• 1:11:43Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:11:43Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:11:44Chris Ryan?

  But they're in.

• 1:11:45Bill Simmons?

  Let's talk about the third movie.

• 1:11:46Chris Ryan?

  I'm just saying, there is a possibility that while Jesse's on his European tour, his wife's banging Kirk Heinrich.

• 1:11:53Speaker 08

  Yeah, they're not in a good place. They're not in a good place, but they're in New York at that time. They're not in Chicago yet.

• 1:11:58Bill Simmons?

  Is there a deleted scene where Jesse's wife is just angrily stalking around in the airport because he's not, he has his plane, he wasn't on the plane?

• 1:12:05Chris Ryan?

  Or hysterical, like where is he?

• 1:12:07Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah. I, I mean, I think this is a completely valid point. That is one of the things about the movie that like, it makes you complicit and kind of rooting for them to commit adultery, but like you were very swept up in.

• 1:12:18Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, both things are true, right? And you want to see them together and also he's clearly destroying Henry's life and his psyche for the rest of his life.

• 1:12:25Speaker 08

  This is why, like, all of that will be dealt with in the third film, right? In a way that is.

• 1:12:29Bill Simmons?

  Mallory, what's your hottest take?

• 1:12:31Speaker 08

  All right, here's my hottest take. We haven't talked enough, obviously, about Che the Cat, but it's time. And my take, I honestly don't know this is very hot. This is a tepid take. Celine, who I love and is a very important character to me, terrible cat mom.

• 1:12:45Bill Simmons?

  Hmm.

• 1:12:46Speaker 08

  Terrible cat mom. She is so boastful about the fact that she just deposits every morning, this beautiful creature in the mean streets of Paris to fend for himself in the hundred degree weather. No. Terrible.

• 1:13:05Bill Simmons?

  No, that's a hot take. But I mean, cats are animals.

• 1:13:10Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:13:10Bill Simmons?

  Who would just kill rodents and different things. Bring a dead rat back into your living room and be like, look, mom.

• 1:13:18Speaker 08

  My, my cat sleeps in my arms in bed.

• 1:13:20Bill Simmons?

  Your cat's like 15.

• 1:13:22Speaker 08

  He's doing great. He's thriving.

• 1:13:25Speaker 08

  Watch it. Careful.

• 1:13:26Chris Ryan?

  That cat's gonna live forever.

• 1:13:27Speaker 08

  Careful. There is a line.

• 1:13:33Chris Ryan?

  You can make fun of Mark Andrews.

• 1:13:34Speaker 08

  We've never heard it yet.

• 1:13:35Chris Ryan?

  Don't talk about my cat.

• 1:13:36Sean Fennessey?

  It's a lie.

• 1:13:39Chris Ryan?

  Oh, Bill gets an HR.

• 1:13:40Sean Fennessey?

  I don't know if I can follow that one up. I texted this and I think I, I think I believe it. I think the car ride scene is, I don't know if it's the best scene of the 2000s, but it's the scene that makes me feel the most kind of electrified when I'm watching it. And it's on a list with two other scenes that I can think of right off the top of my head, which is one, the truck flipping over in The Dark Knight, where I was like, oh my God. Like, this is so exciting and crazy when that happened for the first time. Then the other one is, yo, homie, is that my briefcase from Collateral? When Tom Cruise shoots those two guys in the street and I was like, what the fuck? Like, holy cat. And I was so like, just pumped up and excited. And this movie is, that scene does the same thing in a different way, obviously, but

• 1:14:20Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:21Sean Fennessey?

  where you just can feel everything inside your body when it's happening. You're thinking really hard and you're feeling really deeply at the same time.

• 1:14:27Bill Simmons?

  So you're saying that should get the, okay, motherfucker. The word for when the movie goes up.

• 1:14:31Sean Fennessey?

  I think so, yeah, yeah, I think so.

• 1:14:34Bill Simmons?

  Casting but ifs, there are none. Best that guy word, there are none.

• 1:14:38Chris Ryan?

  Viktor Dobchev, Dobchev, is that his name? The guy who's, uh, Jesse's, like, French handler?

• 1:14:45Speaker 08

  Mm. I had him in The Dion Waiters.

• 1:14:46Bill Simmons?

  Stealth, stealth, stealth, that guy.

• 1:14:49Chris Ryan?

  I'm just steffing it up.

• 1:14:50Sean Fennessey?

  I had him in Waiters as well.

• 1:14:51Speaker 08

  Yeah, here's my Waiters. 7:30 at the very latest.

• 1:14:54Bill Simmons?

  Dion Waiters award, the press tour questionnaire, the limo driver who looks like Larry Zabisco. What do you got?

• 1:15:03Speaker 08

  My Dion Waiters is the guy Chris just talked about, the bookstore manager.

• 1:15:06Sean Fennessey?

  I think it's the bookstore manager. Philippe doesn't really do anything.

• 1:15:09Speaker 08

  No.

• 1:15:09Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 1:15:10Sean Fennessey?

  He just kind of nods.

• 1:15:11Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:15:13Bill Simmons?

  Probably could have been drawn out a little more.

• 1:15:15Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:16Bill Simmons?

  Post-script editing.

• 1:15:17Sean Fennessey?

  It's unclear what, if he understands anything Jesse says.

• 1:15:20Chris Ryan?

  Well, it's also, it's like, does Philippe?

• 1:15:22Speaker 08

  That's an unanswerable question.

• 1:15:23Chris Ryan?

  Get paid either way or is it his job to get Jesse to that airport?

• 1:15:26Sean Fennessey?

  Otherwise, he's assassinated at the end of the day.

• 1:15:28Chris Ryan?

  Do you think that they, right after the fade out, they're about to do the deed and Philippe's like, Mr. Jesse, come on. You're going to be late.

• 1:15:37Bill Simmons?

  Recasting couch director city. I mean, we can run this back in Boston. Jessie's book tour in Boston.

• 1:15:44Chris Ryan?

  I'll just say that the, the idea of Jessie and Celine being in New York at the same time.

• 1:15:52Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:15:53Chris Ryan?

  Is, is very intoxicating and like that idea of like, what if like, he's on, I mean, even if you want to get crazy on his way to his wedding and he sees her and they have like an hour long.

• 1:16:02Bill Simmons?

  Oh, that's like a prequel, postquel.

• 1:16:06Speaker 08

  I think even though it's like very appropriate that this takes place in her home city, it makes sense that that would be where they discovered each other again. I really do like the idea of it being in New York because it lends then even more heft to the which continent should we build our lives in question? That we'll do in large later. If we had actually seen them at, however briefly in the States together, we would have had that measuring stick.

• 1:16:34Sean Fennessey?

  And we still have not seen them in the States together.

• 1:16:36Speaker 08

  Right.

• 1:16:38Bill Simmons?

  You didn't give Celine the Edie Falco and Copland Award as well for the character that became three times hotter as soon as they had a cigarette.

• 1:16:44Chris Ryan?

  It's not even three times hotter. She's already like, non-smoking heavyweight champion of the world, you know?

• 1:16:50Bill Simmons?

  Half-Assed Internet Research, originally Linklater considered a, a larger budget with four locations, could not get the funding, so they scaled it back.

• 1:17:00Speaker 08

  What would that have been like? I don't really even understand that.

• 1:17:03Bill Simmons?

  It just feels like it completely betrays the whole point of the, the first two movies to be like a bigger budget. I just didn't get it either. They filmed it in Paris, obviously. Shakespeare and Company is the bookstore. It's on the left back.

• 1:17:19Speaker 08

  Great bookstore.

• 1:17:19Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I've been.

• 1:17:20Bill Simmons?

  Le Puree Café, the Promenade Plantee part.

• 1:17:24Chris Ryan?

  Can I just tell you one thing about Le Puree Café? It is 45 minutes walk from Shakespeare.

• 1:17:30Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:17:31Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:31Chris Ryan?

  So it's a little bit of a movie magic going on.

• 1:17:33Bill Simmons?

  There's some other French stuff that I'm not going to try to say the names, including Her Apartment, which was filmed in. Courteux, désoiré, flambé, sain et tiède.

• 1:17:42Speaker 08

  You guys have your social clip.

• 1:17:45Sean Fennessey?

  He said you weren't going to say it.

• 1:17:48Bill Simmons?

  It was one of the hottest summers on record, 100 degree weather during the filming.

• 1:17:53Bill Simmons?

  And then the man and woman that Celine speaks to in the courtyard were her actual parents.

• 1:17:56Speaker 08

  Yep.

• 1:17:58Bill Simmons?

  You can see a review of Jesse's book.

• 1:18:01Speaker 08

  Yes.

• 1:18:02Bill Simmons?

  Next to the picture where she looks like a cross eyed baby.

• 1:18:05Speaker 08

  That would have been my like this time capsule, you know, best like 2003 thing about it. Still clipping out like things from a newspaper or a magazine and taping them to your wall.

• 1:18:15Bill Simmons?

  The CD is Tomato Collection by Nina Simone, which weirdly was recorded on June 16th, 1968.

• 1:18:22Chris Ryan?

  Oh.

• 1:18:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Apex Mountain Hawk?

• 1:18:25Chris Ryan?

  Just can I just say one more internet research thing?

• 1:18:28Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:28Chris Ryan?

  I'm sorry. Uh, the guy who jogs past them when they're sitting in the park. There's a guy who runs past them. He's wearing a Horace Pinker T-shirt, which is a early 90s pop punk band from Arizona. Just, just very link later to do that, I think.

• 1:18:41Speaker 08

  And very CR.

• 1:18:42Chris Ryan?

  Also, and they, they apparently were writing, uh, the final scene, the Celine's apartment scene at 3am the night before. They're still working on it.

• 1:18:50Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 1:18:51Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:52Bill Simmons?

  Apex Mountain, we already did Hawk and Delpi. I think this is it for Delpi.

• 1:18:57Sean Fennessey?

  Probably.

• 1:18:57Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:18:58Sean Fennessey?

  Gets Academy Award nominated. This movie is a.

• 1:19:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:02Sean Fennessey?

  Beloved classic.

• 1:19:04Bill Simmons?

  Paris?

• 1:19:05Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, nope.

• 1:19:06Chris Ryan?

  Nope.

• 1:19:06Speaker 08

  No.

• 1:19:07Bill Simmons?

  Paris in movies?

• 1:19:09Speaker 08

  No.

• 1:19:10Chris Ryan?

  What's, what is it?

• 1:19:12Speaker 08

  Ratatouille.

• 1:19:14Speaker 08

  Amelie?

• 1:19:15Sean Fennessey?

  Not for me. Not an Amelie guy.

• 1:19:17Speaker 08

  Midnight in Paris?

• 1:19:18Chris Ryan?

  Breathless, like.

• 1:19:19Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:20Speaker 08

  American in Paris?

• 1:19:20Sean Fennessey?

  Any number of.

• 1:19:21Speaker 08

  A lot of movies set in Paris. It's a lot, pretty lot less.

• 1:19:24Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:25Bill Simmons?

  Sequels now, romantic sequels. Might be.

• 1:19:28Speaker 08

  Maybe.

• 1:19:29Sean Fennessey?

  Romantic sequels.

• 1:19:31Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:31Sean Fennessey?

  It's a short list.

• 1:19:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:32Sean Fennessey?

  Mamma Mia 2. What else is on that list?

• 1:19:35Bill Simmons?

  Penitentiary 2.

• 1:19:39Speaker 08

  I'll get back to you when they make a sequel to Past Lives.

• 1:19:41Chris Ryan?

  Do you guys think, uh, it's Apex Mountain for film endings?

• 1:19:45Speaker 08

  Oh, holy shit.

• 1:19:46Sean Fennessey?

  It's a huge question.

• 1:19:47Chris Ryan?

  I have Casablanca.

• 1:19:49Bill Simmons?

  Not ready to answer that.

• 1:19:50Sean Fennessey?

  It's an inverted Casablanca.

• 1:19:52Chris Ryan?

  There Will Be Blood, Godfather.

• 1:19:54Bill Simmons?

  Rocky II.

• 1:19:55Chris Ryan?

  Shawshank. Did you say Rocky II?

• 1:19:57Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:19:59Bill Simmons?

  Shawshank. I think for me, it's probably Shawshank though. Or The Shining.

• 1:20:04Speaker 08

  Movies, movies set in one day?

• 1:20:08Speaker 08

  There are a lot.

• 1:20:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, there are a lot. Yeah, Draft Day.

• 1:20:12Chris Ryan?

  Bueller.

• 1:20:13Bill Simmons?

  This is a good movie set in one day, yeah. It's definitely on the list.

• 1:20:17Sean Fennessey?

  Sonny, it's like, is it, is this supposed to be real time? I forget. Is it supposed to be 78 minutes? Is that the?

• 1:20:22Speaker 08

  About.

• 1:20:22Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, he's saying it's like an 80 minutes between.

• 1:20:24Speaker 08

  When do I have to be there?

• 1:20:24Sean Fennessey?

  Because there is some cutting where we don't actually watch them do every single move out of the cafe into the cafe.

• 1:20:29Bill Simmons?

  I don't know if this is Nina Simone's Apex Mountain.

• 1:20:32Chris Ryan?

  It's not.

• 1:20:34Bill Simmons?

  But you could make a case because this movie will live on for like 100 years.

• 1:20:37Chris Ryan?

  So weird way.

• 1:20:38Sean Fennessey?

  She was a world famous star at the time.

• 1:20:40Bill Simmons?

  No, I get it. Just saying. What is her Apex Mountain?

• 1:20:44Sean Fennessey?

  Hmm.

• 1:20:46Bill Simmons?

  Maybe it's her.

• 1:20:47Sean Fennessey?

  Feeling good, probably.

• 1:20:48Bill Simmons?

  Herpostamous Apex Mountain?

• 1:20:50Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:51Sean Fennessey?

  Could be her posthumous Apex Mountain.

• 1:20:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's a good answer.

• 1:20:53Sean Fennessey?

  She, there's a great documentary about her. There's a very bad biopic about her starring Zoe Saldana.

• 1:20:59Bill Simmons?

  Paris Bookstores.

• 1:21:02Bill Simmons?

  Paris Boat Rides. And Love. Those are my last three.

• 1:21:06Chris Ryan?

  I was gonna say, is this the best, is this the best movie couple? Is this Apex Mountain?

• 1:21:09Sean Fennessey?

  Apex Mountain for Love.

• 1:21:11Speaker 08

  Well, for, for couples.

• 1:21:13Bill Simmons?

  Apex Mountain for movie couples.

• 1:21:15Speaker 08

  I think so, yes.

• 1:21:17Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 1:21:18Speaker 08

  You, you live their lives with them.

• 1:21:20Chris Ryan?

  Alvy and Annie.

• 1:21:22Bill Simmons?

  Yo, come on.

• 1:21:24Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, what other woodman characters you got on the list?

• 1:21:28Speaker 08

  I think if you apply it to the whole trilogy.

• 1:21:30Chris Ryan?

  The two of you are full of shit.

• 1:21:35Sean Fennessey?

  Where would you put Manhattan?

• 1:21:35Chris Ryan?

  Oh, CR, you're really off a reservation there.

• 1:21:40Bill Simmons?

  I guess this is the last rewatchable.

• 1:21:45Bill Simmons?

  I was trying to think, like Billy Crystal, Meg Ryan?

• 1:21:49Chris Ryan?

  These two are way better to me.

• 1:21:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's what I'm just trying to think of famous couples in a movie.

• 1:21:54Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I think there's obviously a lot of.

• 1:21:56Bill Simmons?

  Oh, I know it. It's De Niro and Fonda.

• 1:22:00Bill Simmons?

  Jackie Brown.

• 1:22:04Speaker 04

  So number two.

• 1:22:06Sean Fennessey?

  There's a lot of movies from the 40s that are obviously in the conversation.

• 1:22:10Speaker 04

  Cary Grant, Edgar Bergman.

• 1:22:11Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:11Speaker 04

  I get, I know. I'm just, I'm just.

• 1:22:13Sean Fennessey?

  Love Story was referenced in their first film, you know.

• 1:22:17Speaker 04

  And Annie Hall.

• 1:22:18Bill Simmons?

  Ali Larter and James Garner.

• 1:22:19Sean Fennessey?

  And A Fear to Remember, that's one that jumps to mind, you know. Casablanca is a huge one.

• 1:22:24Bill Simmons?

  Cruiser Hanks, can you weigh in on Cruiser Hanks?

• 1:22:27Speaker 08

  So I, I don't think there's a, I enjoyed your discussion. I don't think there's a place for, for either of them in this film unless we got that.

• 1:22:34Bill Simmons?

  That's not the point of Cruiser Hanks.

• 1:22:35Speaker 08

  Alternate four city version. You need other charac- there aren't other characters in the movie though.

• 1:22:38Bill Simmons?

  What if they just recast Jesse with Cruz but didn't acknowledge? Cruiser Hanks in the Jesse part.

• 1:22:43Speaker 08

  It's not something that we can consider.

• 1:22:44Bill Simmons?

  Doesn't matter. Cruiser Hanks in the Jesse part. Pick.

• 1:22:47Sean Fennessey?

  Yo, homie, is that my Celine?

• 1:22:50Speaker 08

  I would go with Cruz.

• 1:22:52Bill Simmons?

  Alright, so Cruz, Cruz wins.

• 1:22:53Speaker 04

  Cruz describing the second novel idea.

• 1:22:55Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:22:56Speaker 04

  It all takes place over.

• 1:22:57Speaker 08

  And a rock song.

• 1:22:59Sean Fennessey?

  You go buy, you go buy, you go buy. I would dissolve into molecules.

• 1:23:05Speaker 04

  I've had sex 10 times.

• 1:23:08Bill Simmons?

  Scorsese or Spielberg? What do you have now?

• 1:23:10Speaker 08

  It's gotta be Spielberg. I don't think you can consider Scorsese for the trilogy until Before Midnight.

• 1:23:15Speaker 04

  I, I considered it.

• 1:23:16Bill Simmons?

  Scorsese.

• 1:23:17Speaker 04

  Carrie!

• 1:23:18Speaker 08

  Scorsese for Before Midnight is very.

• 1:23:20Speaker 04

  Celine!

• 1:23:23Speaker 04

  That was the only second novel idea I had!

• 1:23:31Bill Simmons?

  What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played? I really, this category is really growing to me.

• 1:23:36Speaker 08

  Gotta be Philippe.

• 1:23:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Philippe the limo driver, yeah.

• 1:23:38Speaker 08

  How's the cheating, Jesse? How's the cheating?

• 1:23:42Bill Simmons?

  So I have a little special mailbag interlude from Courtney C.

• 1:23:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:23:48Bill Simmons?

  Who writes, "The rewatchables mailbag episode was fantastic." Thank you, Courtney. "I was thinking about that email that suggested a female counterpart category to the Cruz versus Hanks category."

• 1:23:58Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:23:59Bill Simmons?

  "How about this? Pick a Jennifer. Would the lead female role be better with Jennifer Aniston, Lawrence, Lopez, Connolly, Garner, or Coolidge?"

• 1:24:09Speaker 08

  Connolly, Jennifer.

• 1:24:09Bill Simmons?

  Jennifer Roulette.

• 1:24:11Speaker 08

  Oh my god.

• 1:24:12Bill Simmons?

  I didn't hear Love Hewitt in there. Then she writes, "P.S. I love the podcast. Whenever you get together with C.R., it always feels like I'm hanging out with the guys I grew up with. Keep up the great work."

• 1:24:22Speaker 04

  Wow, thanks, Courtney.

• 1:24:23Bill Simmons?

  Courtney, just thanks for, thanks for making us feel great. Must have had some cool friends.

• 1:24:29Bill Simmons?

  So Jennifer Love Hewitt could be in there too. Could Jenna Ortega be squeezed in? Oh wow.

• 1:24:33Chris Ryan?

  Jenna Ortega?

• 1:24:35Bill Simmons?

  Jenna Ortega? No, Jenna's not coming. She hasn't earned it. Not yet. She's not there. But Jennifer Love Hewitt, I think, could be in there.

• 1:24:40Sean Fennessey?

  What about Jennifer Jason Leigh?

• 1:24:42Bill Simmons?

  Jennifer Jason Leigh could be in there.

• 1:24:44Sean Fennessey?

  What about screen icon Jennifer Jones? Think of all the great Jennifers. What about Jennifer Flowers? CR's favorite, you know?

• 1:24:49Bill Simmons?

  So will all Jennifers are open? Do you like this category?

• 1:24:53Chris Ryan?

  All Jennifers?

• 1:24:54Bill Simmons?

  Any Jennifer.

• 1:24:56Chris Ryan?

  All Jennifers are open, sounds like the porn title.

• 1:25:01Bill Simmons?

  I like this one. So who would be the Jennifer for this movie?

• 1:25:04Chris Ryan?

  I can't conceive of this character not being French, so until you give me an alternative French actress.

• 1:25:08Bill Simmons?

  How about Jennifer Connelly with a French accent?

• 1:25:10Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:25:12Speaker 08

  I mean, who says no, honestly? Yeah.

• 1:25:15Bill Simmons?

  The Dan Campbell scale for holy shit, are they really going for this right now? The waltz.

• 1:25:20Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:20Bill Simmons?

  Oh, she's gonna play it? Oh!

• 1:25:22Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:25:23Bill Simmons?

  All right, Mallory, it's time. Your flex category.

• 1:25:26Speaker 08

  Okay, I'm gonna do, did this movie have a porn parody?

• 1:25:29Chris Ryan?

  Oh.

• 1:25:30Speaker 08

  And, are you surprised?

• 1:25:33Bill Simmons?

  No, I didn't know where you were going.

• 1:25:35Chris Ryan?

  We were shopping these a little earlier. Go ahead.

• 1:25:37Speaker 08

  So I don't actually know the answer to the question. I assume it's no. I didn't want to Google that on my work computer. But I think we should discuss, like, if it could have been. You just started doing this a few moments ago, very organically, Chris. I would like to nominate as the title, before come set.

• 1:25:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:57Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, CR, yeah.

• 1:25:59Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:25:59Bill Simmons?

  We talked about that.

• 1:26:00Chris Ryan?

  I was like, we forgot to say before come rise.

• 1:26:02Speaker 08

  Yeah, and this is before come set. The days and days and days of fucking.

• 1:26:06Sean Fennessey?

  It's before come shot.

• 1:26:08Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, but you're being a little bit direct, aren't you?

• 1:26:10Bill Simmons?

  Before come rise and before come set is pretty good.

• 1:26:12Sean Fennessey?

  What is come set?

• 1:26:14Speaker 08

  It's like the crusty, befouled surfaces of the apartment after, after they close the blinds and they fuck for 10 days. And sweet little Che has to like, just, why do you wait for secretions to get to his food bowl?

• 1:26:29Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. I'm just gonna look it up.

• 1:26:33Bill Simmons?

  Thanks, Craig. Craig's gonna take the safari cachet hit. I like when Mall, when we do movies with pets, Mall always remembers the pet's name.

• 1:26:41Speaker 08

  Che, yeah, sure. I mean.

• 1:26:43Sean Fennessey?

  What does it mean?

• 1:26:44Speaker 08

  Well, in Argentinean, it means hope, I believe. Is that what she said? Yeah, because Jesse's like, you're a commie.

• 1:26:53Sean Fennessey?

  Bit of a, bit of a hard line.

• 1:26:56Speaker 08

  Mm hmm.

• 1:26:57Sean Fennessey?

  It's kind of right wing, Jesse. Or is he just, he's very undermining of a lot of her left leaning ideas.

• 1:27:04Bill Simmons?

  9/11 had a big impact on him.

• 1:27:05Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, you know.

• 1:27:06Sean Fennessey?

  It radicalized him.

• 1:27:07Chris Ryan?

  I don't know. Jesse dedicated this time to Donald Rumsfeld.

• 1:27:15Bill Simmons?

  Was, did Jesse start in the Capitol on J 36?

• 1:27:17Sean Fennessey?

  Huge Wolfowitz guy, Jesse. Yeah.

• 1:27:19Chris Ryan?

  Picking nits.

• 1:27:20Sean Fennessey?

  Department of Defense.

• 1:27:21Chris Ryan?

  Have to protect the green zone.

• 1:27:23Bill Simmons?

  We did, we did all my picking nits. Actually, and then the 47 minute walk. There's one where the extra in the red shirt is about to walk by them and then doesn't walk by them when they flip camera angles for like 10 seconds. That's just like a fuck up.

• 1:27:37Chris Ryan?

  Do better.

• 1:27:38Bill Simmons?

  We hit everything else. You don't have any other nitpicks, right?

• 1:27:41Chris Ryan?

  Mine was the 45 minute walk is actually, the, like, it's like eight minutes in the movie. It's actually 45 minutes.

• 1:27:47Bill Simmons?

  Sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all black cast or untouchable. This became a trilogy.

• 1:27:55Bill Simmons?

  Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trell, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson, Nell, Byron Mayo, Barney Cousins, Tony Romo, Harling Mays, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Long Legs, or Wilford Brimley in the firm? CR?

• 1:28:08Chris Ryan?

  I was thinking about how funny it would be is Jesse sees Celine. The culmination of this nine year wait. And then Wayne Jenkins walks up to him and he goes, goddamn Jesse. Hey, man, that's some great fucking autofiction, dog. I didn't know I was here with supernovas and a motherfucking bestseller spot. You better get back to your wife and kid or your royalties are gonna come alimony for a long fucking time, big dog.

• 1:28:37Bill Simmons?

  I was hoping you'd do.

• 1:28:38Speaker 08

  Incredible. You think Wayne spends a lot of time in Paris? Yeah. Yeah, really cultured guy, loves to travel. You're not doing Romo? Jim, he's gonna miss that plane.

• 1:28:49Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:50Speaker 08

  He's gonna miss that plane, Jim.

• 1:28:51Chris Ryan?

  It's a 10, 10 point, Jim.

• 1:28:53Speaker 08

  Police gonna lose that commission, Jim.

• 1:28:55Chris Ryan?

  After 9/11, it takes a ton of time to get through security, Jim.

• 1:28:59Bill Simmons?

  I actually was thinking Collinsworth would be pretty good for this.

• 1:29:02Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:29:03Bill Simmons?

  Like, oh, Mike. She just nailed the waltz, Mike. I mean, you can't. She didn't even remember the lyrics and she was nailing it, Mike.

• 1:29:14Bill Simmons?

  Just want to ask her, just want to ask her who gets it.

• 1:29:17Chris Ryan?

  Delphi.

• 1:29:18Speaker 08

  I think so.

• 1:29:21Sean Fennessey?

  I like that.

• 1:29:22Speaker 08

  Here's the, here's the, here's the argument. It's Linklater for sunrise, Delphi for sunset, Hawk for midnight. And they each get one.

• 1:29:31Sean Fennessey?

  If the world were just.

• 1:29:33Speaker 08

  Hawk's performance in midnight is unrivaled.

• 1:29:37Bill Simmons?

  Probably an answerable questions. When did he actually get on the plane? How many days passed?

• 1:29:43Chris Ryan?

  So, do you think he calls her and is like, I'm not coming back because I'm going to have 10 days of sex with Celine?

• 1:29:51Speaker 08

  No, I think he waits to share the lie.

• 1:29:52Bill Simmons?

  I think we're in the lying stage.

• 1:29:54Chris Ryan?

  He goes back a day to later.

• 1:29:56Speaker 08

  No, he's there for days and days and days fucking.

• 1:29:59Bill Simmons?

  I'm meeting with the book company here about the second book.

• 1:30:02Speaker 08

  They send her the tour. It's, it's some live and he goes home and he's like, I have had an incredible amount of sex with the love of my life. Uh, we're done.

• 1:30:09Bill Simmons?

  Hey, they're running a fucking nursery.

• 1:30:10Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:30:11Sean Fennessey?

  We're done.

• 1:30:11Speaker 08

  We're done.

• 1:30:12Sean Fennessey?

  He doesn't say that to her.

• 1:30:13Chris Ryan?

  What do you think?

• 1:30:15Sean Fennessey?

  Um, I think they probably have a sort of illicit affair over time and he doesn't go back right away and break it off immediately. And they try to figure, he tries.

• 1:30:25Bill Simmons?

  Oh, I disagree. I think, I think he stays three extra days and then tells his wife when he gets home. He's like, I'm, I'm packing.

• 1:30:32Chris Ryan?

  Guess what? Hank's going to camp in France.

• 1:30:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:34Speaker 08

  Yeah. They, they get into all that.

• 1:30:36Sean Fennessey?

  I think maybe just my, my, my affection for Hank, you know, I want to believe.

• 1:30:41Bill Simmons?

  Hank's collateral damage in the love affair of a lifetime.

• 1:30:45Chris Ryan?

  Hank will be fine. Hank's got a cool new stepmom.

• 1:30:48Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:30:49Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:50Bill Simmons?

  Hank got, Hank got pardoned.

• 1:30:51Sean Fennessey?

  Before midnight is telling us.

• 1:30:53Bill Simmons?

  Hank got pardoned from January 6th. He's fine. Doing good.

• 1:30:57Speaker 08

  Oh, man.

• 1:30:58Sean Fennessey?

  Internalize all of his father's ideas.

• 1:31:00Bill Simmons?

  Any other inanswerable questions for you all?

• 1:31:02Chris Ryan?

  I have a couple.

• 1:31:03Speaker 08

  Couple as well.

• 1:31:03Bill Simmons?

  All right, let's hear it.

• 1:31:04Chris Ryan?

  You think Hawk wrote in all the stuff about Jesse being a stick man? Like in terms of like his lasting sexual impact on Celine's life?

• 1:31:12Bill Simmons?

  Oh, that he added that?

• 1:31:13Chris Ryan?

  Why don't you say this?

• 1:31:14Speaker 08

  Yeah, those were his contributions to the.

• 1:31:17Chris Ryan?

  Uh, and, um, I mean, what do you think Philippe's thinking this whole time?

• 1:31:22Speaker 08

  This is one of my huge ones.

• 1:31:23Bill Simmons?

  I think he's just stoned.

• 1:31:25Speaker 08

  Do you think he understands English at all?

• 1:31:27Sean Fennessey?

  I've wondered that many times.

• 1:31:28Speaker 08

  Cause there is actually, it's sort of like a little disturbing when like this woman is in the back of his car begging.

• 1:31:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, to get out.

• 1:31:34Speaker 08

  Her out. She's speaking French, obviously, but like, uh, yeah, how long does he wait? Like you said, before he goes and pursues Jesse and, and tries to figure out if he's going to be able to fulfill his mission? Lot of Philippe questions here.

• 1:31:45Chris Ryan?

  I, I will say in the grand scheme of things, like the fuck you let me out of the car is like one of the hardest things to navigate when you're driving. Whether you're being driven or driving, if somebody's just like, I'm getting out and you're like, we're on fucking La Brea. Where are you going?

• 1:31:59Speaker 08

  But he didn't say that. He was like, the man said, no, I'm gonna keep going.

• 1:32:02Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:02Bill Simmons?

  They're only stopping if you're like, I'm gonna throw up, then they'll fucking stop.

• 1:32:05Chris Ryan?

  Then Philippe stops.

• 1:32:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, Philippe stops for that one.

• 1:32:07Speaker 08

  Um, how do you guys think the song about Che the Cat went? We know that that's one of the three English songs. One is about an ex, uh, an XX, many X's go.

• 1:32:15Bill Simmons?

  I had a question that I didn't answerable for that, whether she was singing the waltz regardless of which one he picked.

• 1:32:21Chris Ryan?

  Hmm.

• 1:32:21Bill Simmons?

  Cause the choices she gave were like pretty lame choices.

• 1:32:25Sean Fennessey?

  I think that that's on purpose. I think that she gave him those choices so that he would pick the waltz.

• 1:32:29Bill Simmons?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 1:32:30Sean Fennessey?

  And she offers it up last.

• 1:32:31Bill Simmons?

  Cause who would have been like, oh, let me hear the song about your cat. That sounds fucking awesome.

• 1:32:35Sean Fennessey?

  And we certainly wouldn't want to hear the song about the ex.

• 1:32:37Speaker 08

  No, of course not.

• 1:32:38Sean Fennessey?

  So.

• 1:32:38Speaker 08

  But the song about the cat would have been great. I, I.

• 1:32:40Bill Simmons?

  The only thing for the ex, she's like, the XX would be like, is that about me? Maybe I'll pick that one.

• 1:32:44Sean Fennessey?

  Possibly, possibly, but we know she's had many men.

• 1:32:47Speaker 08

  Many men, many, um.

• 1:32:48Bill Simmons?

  Pieces of herself were handed out all over Paris and New York.

• 1:32:53Speaker 08

  Nope, she, she takes her health very seriously. Remember? That was part of her lie about, I mean, that part was probably true, but when she's lying about remembering having sex.

• 1:33:01Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:33:01Speaker 08

  She's like, I take my, my health very seriously. Uh, unanswerable question. Jesse, you think he's a, a book talk star today? You think he'd just be crushing it on book talk, writing romance novels?

• 1:33:12Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, he's a 60 year old man, so.

• 1:33:14Speaker 08

  And?

• 1:33:14Bill Simmons?

  He's super creepy.

• 1:33:15Sean Fennessey?

  Probably not.

• 1:33:16Speaker 08

  I think he'd be, I think Jesse would be huge on book talk today, and I, I wish he had gotten to live in this time.

• 1:33:21Bill Simmons?

  I have a probably an answerable question. What's book talk?

• 1:33:24Speaker 08

  Book talk? Oh, boy.

• 1:33:26Sean Fennessey?

  It's answerable, I'm sure you.

• 1:33:28Speaker 08

  Book talk is a, um, a, a subset of TikTok that is, uh, about books.

• 1:33:34Bill Simmons?

  Well, I figured, I could tell.

• 1:33:35Speaker 08

  Yeah, like, it's big. Big for romanticy in particular, and as you know, Jesse writes, uh, romance novels and likes to incorporate some fantasy elements into his stories, so.

• 1:33:44Bill Simmons?

  You know why I'm not on TikTok? Cause I'm gonna be like Will Smith and I am legend. I'll be the only one left after the Chinese take everything from TikTok.

• 1:33:51Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:51Bill Simmons?

  It'll just be me. They'll not have my info.

• 1:33:53Chris Ryan?

  But it was out of bounds for me to like Andy Hall, though.

• 1:33:58Speaker 08

  Oh, man.

• 1:33:59Sean Fennessey?

  The floor is yours, little wood man.

• 1:34:02Speaker 08

  Do you guys think that Jesse insisted on Paris being the last stop on the book tour? We all agree that it's a picking date that he would have a European tour to begin with. But was he like, Paris has to be last, just a case?

• 1:34:14Chris Ryan?

  Do you think Jesse's in any position to make such demands?

• 1:34:16Bill Simmons?

  I need some press with the press.

• 1:34:18Speaker 08

  He somehow got a 10 city European tour, so maybe.

• 1:34:21Sean Fennessey?

  Wouldn't you argue that the opposite would be the way to go, though? That he should start in Paris so that she could join him if they hit it off?

• 1:34:27Speaker 08

  She's definitely wounded when he's like, yeah, I was here last night.

• 1:34:29Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:30Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:30Chris Ryan?

  He's like, oh, I just crashed a lot of the books.

• 1:34:31Sean Fennessey?

  So maybe he wasn't fully strategizing for this, cause he'd already had his heart broken so badly. And the book was published and was reviewed and she never tracked him down.

• 1:34:40Speaker 08

  So, okay, let's build on this and it gets to the questions you were asking earlier, another unanswerable. If he had not had a stop in Paris, cause she says, I saw the event. This is my favorite bookstore. I come here, I saw your face, I saw the event. Easy enough to go, but she also says, I read about your book.

• 1:34:53Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:34:54Speaker 08

  Seemed vague. This is strangely familiar. She read the book, she read it twice.

• 1:34:57Chris Ryan?

  The French covering this time breathlessly.

• 1:35:01Speaker 08

  Enraptured. If he had not come to Paris, would she then have gone to find him? Because she knows for sure who he is, where he is. She's been reading about him, reading about the book.

• 1:35:10Sean Fennessey?

  I think no, too. I think she's too scooped out at this point. She's pretty beaten down in this movie.

• 1:35:15Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, she's Neil McCauley range. Why so interested in what I do, lady?

• 1:35:21Sean Fennessey?

  You've really got Neil on the brain, I feel like.

• 1:35:23Bill Simmons?

  I've been studying lately.

• 1:35:26Chris Ryan?

  The scouts are out.

• 1:35:28Bill Simmons?

  Scout department.

• 1:35:29Chris Ryan?

  It's senior bull time.

• 1:35:30Bill Simmons?

  But I've been at 40 coming up.

• 1:35:35Chris Ryan?

  Boy, you see Sizmore running the 40?

• 1:35:38Chris Ryan?

  Like what I'm seeing from him.

• 1:35:39Bill Simmons?

  I, uh, I have some real questions about whether she would ever know the book came out. In 2004.

• 1:35:46Speaker 08

  She's got a little clipping.

• 1:35:49Bill Simmons?

  That means she's reading the newspaper from cover to cover. Does she seem like in I read the newspaper?

• 1:35:53Chris Ryan?

  People did do that in 2004.

• 1:35:54Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, let me, let me ask you a question.

• 1:35:55Bill Simmons?

  I'm just, I, I, there's a world where she just never knows the book came out.

• 1:35:59Sean Fennessey?

  I'll ask you, you'll answer. You had a crush on a girl in high school.

• 1:36:02Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:36:03Sean Fennessey?

  You hadn't thought about her in 10 years. We had Facebook in 2008. Did you ever just pop that name into the search bar?

• 1:36:08Speaker 08

  Sure, of course.

• 1:36:09Bill Simmons?

  But then that Facebook.

• 1:36:09Sean Fennessey?

  This is the equivalent of that. But this is the equivalent of that.

• 1:36:12Bill Simmons?

  But it hinges on that she had to see that this book was coming out, this guy Jesse Wallace.

• 1:36:18Sean Fennessey?

  But was she?

• 1:36:18Bill Simmons?

  She had to know that's the Jesse Wallace, so why didn't she look him up?

• 1:36:21Sean Fennessey?

  Is it possible that she hasn't fully revealed how closely she's been tracking him? Because she's.

• 1:36:29Bill Simmons?

  She's stealth, like been monitoring it.

• 1:36:30Sean Fennessey?

  But and maybe some time had passed and she hadn't thought about him as much, but she got lonely or she got, she hit, turned 30 and was like, oh my God, am I not actually where I want to be?

• 1:36:39Bill Simmons?

  She Googled him, found out he was married and decided to, maybe she knew he was married the whole time.

• 1:36:44Speaker 08

  But what did she Google? Jesse, Texas?

• 1:36:46Chris Ryan?

  She could have just written his publisher and been like.

• 1:36:49Speaker 08

  She didn't know anything about him.

• 1:36:50Chris Ryan?

  Jesse, incidentally, I'm the woman in this book.

• 1:36:52Speaker 08

  This is the thing, like they didn't, they didn't exchange phone numbers. They don't actually know that much about each other.

• 1:36:57Sean Fennessey?

  The last name is important. We don't know if they exchanged last names. That would be crucial.

• 1:37:02Speaker 08

  I don't think they did.

• 1:37:04Sean Fennessey?

  You say no. Okay.

• 1:37:06Bill Simmons?

  I think that's crazy to that that they wouldn't have exchanged last names. When they're twenty hours together. I have another question because we couldn't answer this in the first one because we didn't know if they had sex or not, but they did.

• 1:37:17Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:37:17Sean Fennessey?

  Twice.

• 1:37:19Chris Ryan?

  Way to go, Jesse.

• 1:37:19Bill Simmons?

  Jesse put all his stuff in a locker.

• 1:37:21Speaker 08

  Mm hmm.

• 1:37:23Bill Simmons?

  Did they have condoms?

• 1:37:25Speaker 08

  Yes.

• 1:37:25Bill Simmons?

  Nineteen ninety four.

• 1:37:26Speaker 08

  They talk about it in the, yeah, he says he remembers the brand of the condom. Yeah.

• 1:37:28Bill Simmons?

  Oh, you're right.

• 1:37:29Speaker 08

  Has them in his wallet, has them in his pocket, stopped to pick them up. As soon as they leave the bar, he's like, you already gave me a free bottle of wine. Give me some condoms. He got them.

• 1:37:37Chris Ryan?

  Condoms in the wallet.

• 1:37:39Sean Fennessey?

  Is that era over? What do you mean?

• 1:37:40Bill Simmons?

  It's a dark era.

• 1:37:41Sean Fennessey?

  You don't know about this?

• 1:37:44Sean Fennessey?

  Well, it's age the best. Um.

• 1:37:46Chris Ryan?

  Lamb skin.

• 1:37:47Sean Fennessey?

  Just in case. You had an exciting night with a big opportunity. You always kept one in the wallet, but that was not a good idea.

• 1:37:53Bill Simmons?

  I'm saying the condoms in the era for when you're single and that's part of your, that was a great era.

• 1:37:57Speaker 08

  The question is really like, what condom was Jesse carrying?

• 1:38:01Sean Fennessey?

  But they told us not to do that.

• 1:38:02Chris Ryan?

  Why?

• 1:38:02Sean Fennessey?

  Because it would erode the usability.

• 1:38:04Chris Ryan?

  Also, if the guy who had the condom that was like in there so long that it would make a ring on the wallet, it's like.

• 1:38:10Speaker 08

  Very deeply sad, deeply sad.

• 1:38:12Sean Fennessey?

  You had the bad motherfucker, but for unused condoms wallet.

• 1:38:16Speaker 08

  What kind of like was Jesse carrying like a Magnum so that people were impressed? Was he carrying like a ribbed for her pleasure?

• 1:38:23Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:23Speaker 08

  What kind of condom do you think Jesse was carrying?

• 1:38:25Sean Fennessey?

  Good question.

• 1:38:25Bill Simmons?

  A cheap one.

• 1:38:28Chris Ryan?

  He runs out money at like seven P M. That night.

• 1:38:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he probably got a condom from like the, one of those things that drops them out of the bar in the bathroom.

• 1:38:35Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:35Bill Simmons?

  The thing he put in like ten cents and turn it.

• 1:38:37Chris Ryan?

  So for, uh, what piece of memorabilia would you want? Would you want Jesse's? He's got him from the first film.

• 1:38:42Bill Simmons?

  I'd want Jesse's signed book of this time.

• 1:38:45Speaker 08

  Me too.

• 1:38:45Bill Simmons?

  I think is the, the easy obvious answer. Which raises the question, was this time? A good title?

• 1:38:52Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:38:53Chris Ryan?

  Can I ask a secondary question? What would you have done if the book had been called Before Sunrise?

• 1:39:00Speaker 08

  I don't think I would have liked it, actually. That's one degree too, like through the looking glass.

• 1:39:05Sean Fennessey?

  It shows restraint to not do that.

• 1:39:07Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:09Bill Simmons?

  I think this time is a terrible title.

• 1:39:11Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Before Sunrise.

• 1:39:13Speaker 08

  But Before Sunrise is a beautiful title, and so it feels appropriate that Jesse picks.

• 1:39:15Bill Simmons?

  I actually think it should have been called Before Sunrise, even though it's corny. It makes more sense to me than this time. What does this time even mean?

• 1:39:22Sean Fennessey?

  It sounds like the name of a Kenny Loggins song.

• 1:39:24Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. He should have.

• 1:39:25Sean Fennessey?

  Just this time.

• 1:39:27Bill Simmons?

  Heart to heart.

• 1:39:28Speaker 08

  But then he writes that time.

• 1:39:29Sean Fennessey?

  That's right. That's right.

• 1:39:32Bill Simmons?

  He could actually, what a fool believes if we're going yacht rock.

• 1:39:35Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, that would be good. That would have been good.

• 1:39:36Bill Simmons?

  Better title. Coach Finstock or best life lesson? Memories are a wonderful thing if you don't have to deal with the past.

• 1:39:44Sean Fennessey?

  That was a great quote from her.

• 1:39:46Speaker 08

  Really good.

• 1:39:47Chris Ryan?

  I have, sometimes you gotta miss that plane.

• 1:39:49Speaker 08

  Yeah, that's mine as well.

• 1:39:50Bill Simmons?

  Best double feature choice has to be Before Sunrise, unless you would say Before Midnight.

• 1:39:54Speaker 08

  No, I would pick Before Sunrise to pair with this. Yeah.

• 1:39:58Bill Simmons?

  Who won the movie?

• 1:39:59Speaker 08

  The only thing I pair before midnight with is my sadness.

• 1:40:01Chris Ryan?

  The first one is kind of Hawks and this one's kind of hers. Maybe that's too simple way of looking at it. There's something about.

• 1:40:08Sean Fennessey?

  I feel the opposite.

• 1:40:09Chris Ryan?

  I feel like I'm watching him through her eyes in this film somewhat, but you feel the opposite.

• 1:40:13Sean Fennessey?

  I feel the opposite, yeah, but not by much. Like I said on the last one we did, I felt like it's really close, but the last one is more up. And this one, even though it has this amazing romantic ending, there's way more pain in this movie.

• 1:40:25Bill Simmons?

  I think Delpy wins.

• 1:40:27Chris Ryan?

  That's why you're my guy.

• 1:40:29Speaker 08

  If I had to pick, I would pick her.

• 1:40:30Bill Simmons?

  The movie hinges on the, if the waltz isn't really good, the movie kind of.

• 1:40:35Sean Fennessey?

  That's true.

• 1:40:35Bill Simmons?

  Gets a little scraggly at the end.

• 1:40:37Speaker 08

  Just as much on like his face as he's listening to it. It's tough. You almost can't pick. It has to be both of them.

• 1:40:43Sean Fennessey?

  It's almost like it's a made up category on a podcast.

• 1:40:45Bill Simmons?

  Well, buckle up. Producer Craig, who had not seen any of these movies, and then watched both of them.

• 1:40:54Speaker 11

  On a plane. Is that, does that bother you that I saw he's on a plane?

• 1:40:56Bill Simmons?

  No, I think that's actually perfect.

• 1:40:58Speaker 11

  Yeah, you were traveling.

• 1:40:59Bill Simmons?

  Give us, give us your thoughts on one and then two.

• 1:41:01Speaker 11

  Okay.

• 1:41:05Speaker 11

  Truly mesmerized by the first one. Beautiful movie. Sean mentioned in the first part about the dialogue kind of being that early twenties dorm room philosophizing. I completely identified with that.

• 1:41:18Speaker 11

  I fell in love with Celine, who didn't. She's very funny.

• 1:41:23Speaker 11

  I think the only thing, so watching, so I, I love that entire movie. I love that they, I, I, my favorite quality about the movie is that, about both movies really, is that they, they don't fully get along always. They don't, they're not, they are a perfect fit, but that's not a literal term. And I think a lot of times when, when they try to build relationships in movies, the perfect fit are like, you all like the same things and you have the same views about everything. And they don't have that and it's messy sometimes, but you still know that they are, they should be together. But that doesn't always mean you agree. And so I, I thought that was really smart writing.

• 1:41:57Speaker 11

  I really enjoyed the ending. I was like you, Bill, like a hopeful. I thought they were gonna get back together, or at least I wanted to believe that, and you don't want to think about it too much, the possibility that they wouldn't get back together.

• 1:42:08Speaker 11

  I also was a little bit annoyed that she liked Ethan Hawke so much in the, at the beginning of the movie, because I think he's, he's not the best hang. He's a little bit smarmy and smug, and I was almost jealous of, of Jesse. I was just like, this fucking guy?

• 1:42:24Speaker 11

  I'm like, he's really getting Celine right now? Um, but then I think that's, I think it's part of it. They kind of soften each other and their differences come together. The movie doesn't work if she's not French also. She has to have an accent, honestly. She has to be French. I firmly believe that if she was Jennifer Connelly, it wouldn't work.

• 1:42:42Speaker 11

  And then, Before Sunset, I was terrified, didn't want to watch it, was upset that it even got made. Maybe I'm just burned out from sequels nowadays where I'm just like, especially the delayed sequel, where it's not immediately planned. Well, you know, it's like when they put them together and they come out two years apart, and it was like a part of a whole thing, it's fine. But I don't know, it's like, Dumb and Dumber 2, 20 years later, you're like, God, this is gonna suck. I knew obviously these movies were beloved, so whatever. But, um, once again, I was, I was beautifully surprised. It was, I liked that their perspectives switched in many ways, and again, it was clunky and they took time to warm up to one another once again, because at first you're like, I don't know, they're not really meshing once again.

• 1:43:26Speaker 11

  The only thing I think what's aged the worst in this movie? No, no. I think both these movies are honestly perfect. But the only thing that aged the worst is I think that young people are aging, uh, slower now, because how old are they in Before Sunset? Thirty-two? Twenty-three. Sunset, they're thirty-three.

• 1:43:42Bill Simmons?

  Thirty-two, thirty-three.

• 1:43:44Speaker 11

  Thirty-two, thirty-three. I think that's too young now.

• 1:43:48Chris Ryan?

  To have like a kid and stuff?

• 1:43:50Speaker 11

  Yeah, I I think the idea of like you're thirty two and your life is over is no longer identifiable for people my age.

• 1:43:56Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:56Speaker 11

  As a thirty year old myself now. I'm just like, he they they're they seem like a weathered thirty two to me. He's got two kids and a wife. She's had a a whole life. It it just feels like nowadays people are getting started so much later. That they in my head, they should be like thirty seven having this issue, not thirty two. Um.

• 1:44:13Bill Simmons?

  It's a really good point.

• 1:44:14Sean Fennessey?

  I think that's accurate.

• 1:44:15Chris Ryan?

  If it's later in their life and they haven't seen each other, it's almost like it breaks through some wall of like, yeah, but that was like fifteen years ago. Do you know what I mean? There's something about.

• 1:44:24Bill Simmons?

  That's why this movie works so well with the years it was made.

• 1:44:27Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:28Bill Simmons?

  Because you'd also, if it was made now, there'd be phones, she would have hunted him down in five seconds. There's all these reasons why this movie could never happen in the way it happens.

• 1:44:37Speaker 11

  Yeah. Um. Yeah, I it it really feels like it. I can't believe it worked that the sequel came out and I ended before Midnight worked, but it really does feel like you're getting like a it's kind of suspenseful. It's like you can't believe that you get these eighty extra minutes with this couple that you have no idea what happened to. And it's the most captivating I've ever been watching two people talk. It's like you genuinely are like, I can't miss a word they're gonna say.

• 1:45:00Speaker 08

  But you did not watch the third one.

• 1:45:01Bill Simmons?

  A good review from Craig.

• 1:45:03Speaker 11

  I don't I I know where it's headed and I I don't want to go there.

• 1:45:05Speaker 08

  You don't know where it's.

• 1:45:06Speaker 11

  I'm happy now.

• 1:45:07Speaker 08

  You don't know where it's.

• 1:45:07Speaker 11

  I'm happy where I am now with this with this franchise.

• 1:45:10Speaker 08

  You have to watch it.

• 1:45:11Speaker 11

  No.

• 1:45:11Speaker 08

  What?

• 1:45:12Bill Simmons?

  Craig.

• 1:45:13Speaker 11

  At least I'm like, can I live with this for nine years like everybody else got to?

• 1:45:16Bill Simmons?

  Craig.

• 1:45:17Speaker 08

  No.

• 1:45:17Bill Simmons?

  Don't watch it.

• 1:45:18Sean Fennessey?

  I think that's not a bad idea.

• 1:45:19Speaker 11

  Yeah.

• 1:45:20Sean Fennessey?

  But you run a very serious risk, which is you will be very close to the age of the characters in the movie when you watch the next movie.

• 1:45:28Bill Simmons?

  Which I was.

• 1:45:28Sean Fennessey?

  Which is a little risky.

• 1:45:30Speaker 11

  But isn't it worse if I watch it at thirty now and going, that's where I'm headed?

• 1:45:33Sean Fennessey?

  No, I don't think so. I don't think so. I think if you find yourself associating with the feelings in the third film, you will have a a full blown midlife crisis.

• 1:45:42Speaker 08

  Well.

• 1:45:43Sean Fennessey?

  Do you agree?

• 1:45:44Speaker 08

  Um, I actually. Can I answer that or is it getting into too too many spoilery territory?

• 1:45:50Sean Fennessey?

  You gotta ask you gotta SBS.

• 1:45:51Speaker 08

  I think there is a take.

• 1:45:53Bill Simmons?

  Are you gonna ruin pull my intestines through my rectum month?

• 1:45:58Speaker 11

  You've nailed that every time, by the way, like the praising of that, which is very impressive.

• 1:46:02Speaker 08

  I kind of think you, you, I think there's something comforting about it, actually.

• 1:46:07Sean Fennessey?

  That is so, so defining about you.

• 1:46:09Speaker 08

  I know.

• 1:46:10Bill Simmons?

  But it's like, you see, other people also have problems, even the dream couple.

• 1:46:14Speaker 08

  It is actually totally normal to go through these things.

• 1:46:17Sean Fennessey?

  But to be confronted by it is a lot. It is a lot.

• 1:46:21Speaker 08

  It's a very painful movie to watch, but very important.

• 1:46:23Speaker 11

  I am still closer to the sunrise phase in my life than I am to sunset. And so I don't even want to think about midnight.

• 1:46:29Sean Fennessey?

  Right. You're thinking about wife number two, or what do you mean?

• 1:46:34Speaker 08

  How dare you?

• 1:46:36Speaker 11

  These movies are so good. Unbelievably good.

• 1:46:38Speaker 08

  You have to watch the third one. It's a masterpiece.

• 1:46:40Speaker 11

  The listening booth is, the fact, when I heard you guys say it was the first take, that.

• 1:46:44Speaker 08

  You can tell?

• 1:46:44Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. You can't, you.

• 1:46:46Speaker 08

  It's my favorite.

• 1:46:47Sean Fennessey?

  I didn't know that this movie was 80 minutes when I saw it. And I just remember freaking out when it ended.

• 1:46:52Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:46:52Sean Fennessey?

  Like, I don't know if I've ever had that experience of like, what do you mean it's over? Right. Like desperately wanting it to continue.

• 1:46:58Speaker 11

  It's good that if this movie were two and a half hours, it would feel like overindulgent and sequelized. I actually love it.

• 1:47:04Bill Simmons?

  There would also be more opportunities to be like, uh, maybe they shouldn't.

• 1:47:07Speaker 11

  Hundred percent.

• 1:47:08Speaker 08

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:47:09Bill Simmons?

  Weirdly, 80 minutes is also kind of the perfect podcast interview length. When anyone I've done, I've always felt like around 70 minutes, it starts to get a little gamey.

• 1:47:19Sean Fennessey?

  So once again, Jesse, a pioneer.

• 1:47:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. We'll see you next week. Not with Before Midnight, by the way.

• 1:47:25Speaker 08

  Damn it!

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