‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey get lost in Vienna for the day after rewatching Richard Linklater’s 1995 romance classic, ‘Before Sunrise,’ starring Ethan Hawke and Julie Delpy. Watch this episode on our Ringer Movies YouTube channel! Producer: Craig Horlbeck Video Producer: Jack Sanders and Chia Hao Tat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  If you're a fan of the inner workings of Hollywood, then check out my podcast, The Town, on the Ringer Podcast Network. My name's Matt Bellini. I'm a founding partner at Puck and the writer of the What I'm Hearing newsletter. With my show, The Town, I bring you the inside conversation about money and power in Hollywood. Every week, we've got three short episodes featuring real Hollywood insiders to tell you what people in town are actually talking about. We'll cover everything from why your favorite show was canceled overnight, which streamer is on the brink of collapse, and which executive is on the hot seat. Disney, Netflix, who's up, down, and who will never eat lunch in this town again. Follow The Town on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:41Speaker 01

  I'm pro-football Hall of Famer Brian Dawkins, and I lived for a long time with something I did not know the name of: major depressive disorder. I carried sadness and anger because I thought I could handle it alone, but I couldn't. Now I want to make sure others know that that support is out there. If you're experiencing similar symptoms, talk to a healthcare professional. Visit mddallies.com to watch my story.

• 1:06Speaker 02

  Paid partnership with Johnson & Johnson. Brian Dawkins has not prescribed Caplyta lumateperone.

• 1:18Speaker 03

  I needed more from my antidepressant, so my doctor added Caplyta lumateperone, proven to provide greater relief from depression symptoms than an antidepressant alone. Building on my progress without starting over. Caplyta is for adults with major depressive disorder when used with an antidepressant and is available by prescription only. Individual results may vary. In clinical trials, weight gain was not common.

• 1:38Speaker 02

  Elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. Caplyta is not approved for dementia-related psychosis. Call your doctor about new or sudden mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts right away. Antidepressants may increase these risks. Report fever, confusion, stiff muscles, which may be life-threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent. High cholesterol and weight gain may occur, as can high blood sugar, which may be fatal. Monitoring is recommended. Common side effects are sleepiness, dizziness, nausea, dry mouth, feeling tired, and diarrhea. These aren't all the side effects.

• 2:05Speaker 03

  Ask your doctor about Caplyta. Learn more at caplyta.com or call 888-252-4824.

• 2:11Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by Viori. All right, let's talk about a category we appreciate. Clothes that stay in the rotation. Viori earned that spot. Their core shorts are good for workouts, travel day, weekend, whatever. And the Strato Tech T ridiculously soft. It's the kind of gear you keep reaching for because it's comfortable while still looking put together. Get 20% off your first purchase at Viori.com/rewatchables and discover the versatility of Viori clothing. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions.

• 2:46Bill Simmons?

  The Rewatchables brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where you can find the big picture with Sean Finacy.

• 2:52Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 2:52Bill Simmons?

  Breaking down the most boring Oscar season in years.

• 2:55Sean Fennessey?

  What do you mean?

• 2:56Bill Simmons?

  Deadly boring.

• 2:57Sean Fennessey?

  It's wide open. We don't know who's gonna win. This is great.

• 2:59Chris Ryan?

  All the Oppo research is flying around. They have pieces.

• 3:02Bill Simmons?

  I won't be talking about one of these movies 10 years from now.

• 3:04Sean Fennessey?

  Well, that may be true. That may be true.

• 3:06Bill Simmons?

  I am excited for Chalamet.

• 3:08Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 3:09Bill Simmons?

  I'm excited for Demi Moore.

• 3:10Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm.

• 3:11Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I'm excited for the Oscars.

• 3:12Sean Fennessey?

  Come on, come on.

• 3:14Bill Simmons?

  Back.

• 3:14Sean Fennessey?

  If Timmy, if Timmy wins, that'll be fun. Will he come on the pod before or after?

• 3:20Bill Simmons?

  Can he win?

• 3:20Sean Fennessey?

  He can win. Yeah, he can win.

• 3:22Bill Simmons?

  Who's the favorite now?

• 3:22Sean Fennessey?

  Adrian Brody for The Brutalist.

• 3:25Chris Ryan?

  Did you do it yet? Did you fire it up?

• 3:27Bill Simmons?

  After, I need after football season.

• 3:29Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 3:30Bill Simmons?

  Let me get through football season. Especially even the football games last for four hours.

• 3:34Chris Ryan?

  This Celtic swoon. That's an alarm. It's an alarm, but it's not alarming. Right?

• 3:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 3:39Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 3:40Bill Simmons?

  Are you a playing team or no?

• 3:44Chris Ryan?

  We're here to bond over love, right? And the possibilities.

• 3:47Bill Simmons?

  CR, what are you up to?

• 3:48Chris Ryan?

  I do, I do the watch podcast. Yeah.

• 3:51Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:51Chris Ryan?

  It's a men's health pod.

• 3:53Bill Simmons?

  Interesting.

• 3:54Sean Fennessey?

  You're looking, you're looking fit today.

• 3:55Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 3:56Bill Simmons?

  You can find this podcast and all the movie stuff we do on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel. A great channel, which we're gonna be trying to spruce up during 2025. Subscribe to that coming up before sunrise. Three guys getting romantic about a romantic movie. Let's go. I have no idea what your situation is, but I feel like we have some kind of a connection. Yeah, me too. So listen, here's the deal. This is what we should do. You should get off the train with me here in Vienna.

• 4:24Sean Fennessey?

  Come check out the town. Since we're never gonna see each other again, I don't think we should sleep together. Let's see each other again. Castle Rock Entertainment presents Ethan Hawke and Julie Delphi in a new romantic comedy from Richard Linklater.

• 4:40Sean Fennessey?

  Before Sunrise, rated R, at select theaters Friday.

• 4:51Bill Simmons?

  All right, this is an I remember where I saw this and what theater I was in movie. It's a movie that describes your view of life, both when you saw it and then all the years later. It's a true classic. It's Before Sunrise. It's a all-time Gen X movie. It's a great 90s movie. It's aged perfectly. And I almost don't even think we need to do the pod. I have no notes.

• 5:14Chris Ryan?

  See you later.

• 5:14Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. What's aged the worst? I was like, nothing? Zero?

• 5:20Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, yeah. I, it's a very, have you ever started an episode like that? Thinking, you didn't start the Godfather episode like that.

• 5:28Bill Simmons?

  This movie, we had a, we had a mail, when we did the rewatchables mailbag, there was that person who had that, they wanted to add the category about did this movie achieve perfection? It's, it didn't have to be a perfect movie, but for what the movie was trying to do.

• 5:42Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, there's some good cigarettes.

• 5:44Bill Simmons?

  But for what the movie was trying to do, did it achieve it? Did it throw basically a no hitter? And I think this movie achieved every single thing it wanted to do. With the added bonus that endured 30 years later. That it's still, even though, you know, they don't have phones, they don't have, they're not texting, but for the most part, this is a watchable movie now, even for people like my daughter.

• 6:08Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Uh, you know, this was in theaters while Pulp Fiction was still in theaters.

• 6:14Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 6:15Chris Ryan?

  So probably incredibly informative moment for all of our lives. This movie's pretty unique in that not only do you watch it and you're like, I remember seeing it, or I remember the impact it had on me. It's overwhelming because you watch it and you're also like, I remember who I was.

• 6:31Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 6:31Chris Ryan?

  Do you know what I mean? Like, literally, there is a degree to which you kind of see a lot of the things that you were feeling at that time, or would go on to feel very shortly afterwards, like reflected on screen. It's different than Dazed and Confused that way. You know, it's not a period piece in my mind, even though Zoe might watch it and be like, oh, so tell me about what the 90s were like and stuff like that. We're watching it, we're like, this is a photograph.

• 6:54Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 6:55Chris Ryan?

  Of the way people used to talk and the way people used to kind of act. It's so mind blowing to see these days.

• 7:01Sean Fennessey?

  It reminded me of a few movies that you guys have done over the years that felt like they were their own subgenre. So Singles was one of these movies. Kicking and Screaming was one of these movies. Reality Bites was one of these movies. They're not all the same. They have like different tones. Some of them are more comedic, some of them are more sincere. But the like emotional philosophical hangout movie was very present because independent cinema was getting to be a huge part of American movies. And these were kind of easy movies to make, you know, they didn't cost a lot of money. You just needed a couple of attractive people who knew, who seemed, who could seem smart.

• 7:39Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 7:39Sean Fennessey?

  And I'm wondering if this is the best possible version of that kind of a movie.

• 7:46Bill Simmons?

  I think it is. Well, when I think about those movies, and you mentioned some of them, and also this Gen X era, and obviously I was the age, I was probably a year older than Jesse when I saw this movie, but it's all pre-internet to me. It's this time capsule of what life was like before email and texts and everything else showed up. And people were really lost, just trying to find like connections. You would just go to a bar and hope you ran into somebody. You would meet some girl, or if you're a girl, some boy, and you'd be like, maybe this is the one, but you'd have no idea. You wouldn't even know if they tried to call you again. It's like, was my, oh, my answer machine didn't work. There was just this sense of, if I meet somebody, is this gonna last? Is this gonna get screwed up?

• 8:30Bill Simmons?

  If they, if I lose their number, will I ever see or hear from them again? All of these things that made like the value of a connection. I I really think we valued it more back then. I hate to be like the old man on the lawn, but it feels like it's so much easier to connect with whoever. You can go on the internet. You can find your people wherever. You really couldn't in the early 90s. So if you met somebody like this and one day it was like the most important thing that ever could have happened to you.

• 8:56Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, it's also these people are at an age that 18 to 25 or whatever age period where like everything that happens to you feel like feels like it's the first time it's ever happened to anyone. And there's a moment in the opening, just few scenes of this film where Jesse is talking about how it's been a bad trip to Europe, but he's liked sitting on the train and having ideas. And I was like, I don't remember the last time I did that. Like if I'm ever on a mode of transportation or have any downtime, I'm usually like looking at my phone, have my headphones in, texting with somebody. I know, like I'm in constant contact with this external world.

• 9:35Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 9:36Chris Ryan?

  And I was like, holy shit. I completely forgot being bored out of my mind.

• 9:40Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you have a book. Both of them, when they meet each other, they're both reading a book. That's kind of what you did. If you're on a train, what else are you gonna do?

• 9:47Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 9:47Bill Simmons?

  It's not like you'd be like, oh, I'm gonna go on Instagram. You know, you were kind of stuck with your thoughts, some book or a magazine you had and or some conversation with somebody like on a train like that. It's like, maybe I'll sit next to somebody. I remember flying places in the 90s and you'd sit next to somebody, talk to them for three hours and be like, oh, I'll see you later. And that was it. You never thought about them again. Cause it was like, oh, that killed three hours. Now you would just kill the three hours on your own. I don't know if it's better or worse.

• 10:14Chris Ryan?

  Guy next to you is reading Inside Sports.

• 10:16Bill Simmons?

  What is that?

• 10:18Chris Ryan?

  Well, I think.

• 10:18Bill Simmons?

  What did they think of the sun?

• 10:19Chris Ryan?

  Is that a Razor Reddit article?

• 10:21Sean Fennessey?

  I think it's, I think it's 95% what you're saying, that, you know, it was impossible to distract yourself in the ways that we can now, right? And that there is like an inherent bad for our ability to socialize or be connected to other people. But then it was, it's just, it's also 5% just being 21 or 23, where you don't.

• 10:44Bill Simmons?

  And idealistic.

• 10:45Sean Fennessey?

  Right. And you have not been destroyed by the world yet. You don't have a lot of money, so you don't really have a lot of options. So you have to make good with what you have. And you don't have a lot of responsibilities that are otherwise weighing down that idealism. You know, this, these are people with no jobs, no kids, no boyfriends or girlfriends. You know, their parents are alive, everyone's healthy, like they're at this point in your life where like, you can and probably should just fuck around a little bit.

• 11:14Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 11:14Sean Fennessey?

  And both literally and figuratively. And the movie really captures this time of like no responsibility. The fact that Celine can just get off the train in a foreign land.

• 11:24Bill Simmons?

  With some guy she met for twenty minutes.

• 11:25Sean Fennessey?

  Stranger and wander and she's getting off the train before a nine hour trip. And she's like, you know what? I'm just gonna, I'll, I'll go.

• 11:33Chris Ryan?

  I don't have anything going on until Tuesday.

• 11:35Sean Fennessey?

  I, I'm booked through February.

• 11:37Chris Ryan?

  Think about like when even Jesse just being like, I don't have enough money for a hotel. So I was just gonna walk around Vienna all night until it's time to go to the airport.

• 11:44Bill Simmons?

  And then sleep outside.

• 11:44Chris Ryan?

  That would be like a pretty, that, something would have gone really wrong if that was like the circumstance I found myself in now. And that was like fucking romantic back then.

• 11:53Bill Simmons?

  If, if, but this is why Ethan Hawke was the Gen X hero because he played this character and he played Troy. And Troy was bait. Would it try say, all I need is a cup of coffee, a pack of cigarettes and five bucks. Laney, Laney is all I need. And, and that was what all that character needed, right? This guy, he's like, yeah, I'm just gonna ride the train for an extra two weeks. I'm just gonna walk around Vienna tonight. Maybe I'll sleep on the thing. But that's kinda what a lot of people were like back then.

• 12:20Sean Fennessey?

  Were you like that?

• 12:21Bill Simmons?

  No, I was, sports was too important to me. I was always a mixture. But I, if I was him, I would have been like, I gotta get back.

• 12:28Chris Ryan?

  Sports are too important. Like you need to get back.

• 12:30Bill Simmons?

  That's like round one NBA's coming up.

• 12:32Chris Ryan?

  Oil can boy just throwing up Thursday.

• 12:34Bill Simmons?

  Anymore. Clements is pitching.

• 12:37Chris Ryan?

  Mike Greenwell and Ellis Burke are really gonna fucking put it together.

• 12:41Bill Simmons?

  Big picture though with this movie. And it's really, this, one other thing I love about this movie, and we, by the way, we're just gonna talk about this movie.

• 12:48Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 12:49Bill Simmons?

  Cause we want this movie to stand on its own. Obviously there were some sequels. But, uh, but one thing with this movie. As you age with it, but your feelings on love have aged too. And if you see this when you're in your teens, like you don't know what love is yet. If you see this in your twenties, that's when you're the most hardcore into. I kinda know who I am and I'm ready to be in love. So if you see this at the perfect time, this movie would be like your movie. And then as you get older, you're like, oh, those two, they're not gonna last. Like you said, you start becoming more cynical, right? So it's, and they, the only time I'll bring up the sequel, he mentions in the beginning about the difference between a romantic and a cynic.

• 13:28Bill Simmons?

  That's how you see this movie. Are you a romantic or a cynic? So when you saw this, were you a romantic or a cynic, Sierra?

• 13:33Chris Ryan?

  I think that when I saw it.

• 13:37Chris Ryan?

  I didn't see Jesse as cynical. Like, I thought Jesse was just being cool. You know, like in this movie. And then as you grow older, you kinda see him.

• 13:48Bill Simmons?

  He's working a little bit.

• 13:49Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, it's like, this is like, your cynicism isn't of itself. It's like the thing from Singles where it's like, I think your thing is not having a thing. It's like Jesse's thing is pretending like this is, love is bullshit or that like, because of his parents. It's like, he thinks that romantic love is basically a fallacy. But he's the most romantic person in the world.

• 14:10Bill Simmons?

  And he's got his five or six bits that he's clearly done with other people.

• 14:13Sean Fennessey?

  Yep.

• 14:14Bill Simmons?

  It's like, hey, souls, what's going on there?

• 14:19Bill Simmons?

  Please remember, Tippy Bartender.

• 14:20Sean Fennessey?

  Real Jerry Seinfeld.

• 14:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 14:22Sean Fennessey?

  I think that's exactly right. I mean, he, both of them show both sides of those two ideas. They both, you know, Celine in theory, oh, the ethereal French girl should be the most romantic person in the world.

• 14:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 14:33Sean Fennessey?

  But she's also protecting herself with a certain kind of pragmatism throughout the entire movie. And they both kinda bounce back and forth. I was having this conversation with my wife last night. And I feel like the movie is like 51% Celine's ultimately and 49% Jesse's. And in the future movies, you could say, which direction does it go in? But this movie ultimately has that drop of romance that outweighs the cynicism that is always being debated. That they're always, he's, you know, Jesse is always circling back to the palm reader bullshit. That even the poem, there's just the hint of like, are we sure about this guy? You know, like all the moments that.

• 15:12Sean Fennessey?

  In the wrong hands would make for like the worst movie ever. Oh my God. Like if this was not a Richard Linklater movie, it could have been a disaster because of the sincere borderline sentimental steps that the characters take. But ultimately, I think they both have the desire to love and be loved. And they both know that you have to protect yourself in the world because people will hurt you.

• 15:34Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, because Jesse's just gotten his heart broken. So he's going around being like, there's no palm reading. There is no poetry. He's had that poem. Like, none of this stuff is, this is all bullshit.

• 15:43Bill Simmons?

  You made a key point there, though, about sentimental working or not working in a movie. We've seen people, Cameron Crowe is a great example. Almost Famous, all the sentimentality works in that movie. And then he makes Elizabeth Town, and it's a lot of the same beats and none of it works. It's really hard to pull off like, somebody's falling in love with somebody else. You see it in a lot of movies and it takes place over the course of weeks, months, however they do it. I don't remember another movie where it's like, this is about the immediate experience of falling for somebody over the course of a night, basically. And I don't remember another movie that nailed it like this.

• 16:21Chris Ryan?

  No, I mean, the best part about it is the fact that even though they obviously have like an instant connection, which is partially just due to like the circumstances of the train car in which they meet and the other couple fighting.

• 16:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 16:33Chris Ryan?

  They have a pretty awkward first 30 minutes of the movie when they're first working around Vienna and it's like, now what? You know, like, this movie is a series of now what's, which is what's so great about it. It's like every time they achieve some sort of point that in another movie would have been like, it's all building up to a kiss. Or it's all building up to sex, or it's all building up to this. They actually deal with like, what happens next for the most part. And I think it makes it that much more effective because they do.

• 16:59Bill Simmons?

  And so at the end, if you think they're seeing each other in six months when the movie ends, not knowing what happens in the sequels. If you, if you leave that movie and you go, they're gonna see each other in six months, I would say you're a romantic. And if you leave the movie going, nah, one of them's gonna fuck this up, I would say you're a cynic. And it's weird how that one decision at the end probably determine, probably says more about the viewer than it does about the movie.

• 17:24Chris Ryan?

  Do you remember having a take on it when you left the theater?

• 17:26Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I was like, I really hoped, I was like, probably the most idealistic when I saw this movie. I was like, I hope they're gonna make it.

• 17:33Sean Fennessey?

  But to this day, the movie drags you back to that feeling of romanticism. Like, I was kind of just laughing to myself, watching the movie again. You guys know me, I'm very grounded and, and very cynical about certain things.

• 17:44Bill Simmons?

  You would not have liked The Fortune Teller.

• 17:45Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, no, I would have, I would have been, I identify with Jesse a lot.

• 17:48Bill Simmons?

  The poet, you'd have been like, ah, he wrote that already.

• 17:50Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I'm, I really identify with him a lot in many ways, but

• 17:55Sean Fennessey?

  the, the same way that Jesse can't help but feel lifted up, you know, taken away by this person who's, he's encountered, who is just like filling him up with all of this hope and excitement. The movie does the same, like it, it, it softens a hard heart.

• 18:09Bill Simmons?

  So what was your, do you remember the first time you saw this? What was your takeaway? Would they see each other in six months or not?

• 18:15Sean Fennessey?

  Well, it's complicated for me because I can't remember the first time I saw it. And so, I don't, I didn't see it in a movie theater. I definitely saw it on VHS. And I don't know the circumstances under which I saw it. Did I see it with a girl? I, maybe? I don't remember. Like, did we watch it in my parents' basement? Maybe. Um, so I don't have the same, I just wasn't old enough. Just being a little bit younger, whereas the next film, I remember everything about that.

• 18:40Bill Simmons?

  So we did Kicking and Screaming a while ago. Little bit similar. Where you don't know whether Grover's gonna go to, uh,

• 18:47Sean Fennessey?

  Prague.

• 18:48Bill Simmons?

  To Prague, to, to chase, uh, to chase his old girlfriend down and they kind of leave it ambiguous. This was a very nineties thing.

• 18:57Bill Simmons?

  It's like, you're gonna, we're gonna bring these characters in your life, you're gonna fall for them. And then you will never know what happens.

• 19:04Sean Fennessey?

  We'll see, yeah.

• 19:05Bill Simmons?

  I don't, do they still do the we'll see? They don't do it the same way anymore. I don't feel, I don't feel like we'll see is a it's a huge move.

• 19:13Sean Fennessey?

  This is a huge spoiler alert for a movie that not everybody has seen yet. So if you don't want a Nora spoiled for you. But like, that ends in an intriguing way in that very specific respect. Where you don't know what happens to the characters next.

• 19:27Sean Fennessey?

  But it's, it's, to your point, it's really rare.

• 19:29Chris Ryan?

  Were you, did you, do you remember if you had a girlfriend, like a long-term girlfriend when you saw this?

• 19:35Bill Simmons?

  I had a girlfriend when I saw this.

• 19:36Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 19:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. It is, it was one of those movies that also makes you reevaluate whoever you're dating at the time.

• 19:43Chris Ryan?

  It maybe, I was, yeah, I, it was my first real girlfriend I had. It was my senior year of high school and I was like, I'm, I'm pretty into this. Like I was, I was, I, I thought like,

• 19:53Sean Fennessey?

  You weren't like, she's not the one for me.

• 19:54Chris Ryan?

  No, I mean, it wasn't that as much as it was just like,

• 19:59Chris Ryan?

  being in love seems so cool and it just kind of, like, it made me feel happy to have a girlfriend. I think if I had been alone, I would have been like, ah, fuck.

• 20:09Bill Simmons?

  That's how I felt for kicking and screaming. I remember leaving the theater. I was like, oh my God. I gotta get a job.

• 20:17Bill Simmons?

  One thing that, one quote from this movie, being with you has made me feel like I'm somebody else. Jesse says that. I always thought that was a great quote and a good example of like, when you meet somebody like this, you have no, they don't know any of your baggage. They don't know anything. They're just seeing you as this fresh thing and you, and you can have, learned from your past mistakes, especially if you're in that like 23 to 25 range. You've had some swings and some misses. You've, you've run some goal line offense plays that didn't work.

• 20:45Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 20:46Bill Simmons?

  You've, you've tried to make some stuff work out of the shotgun on third and 14. You kind of know what plays to run a little bit more.

• 20:52Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Kellin Moore has it dialed by that.

• 20:54Bill Simmons?

  Right. There's no, there's no basketball reference for, for your playoff record and you could just meet this person and just start fresh with some of the, and Jesse's at that perfect point. And not to bring up the second movie again, but it's one of the interesting things about the second movie is how they're not doing some of the stuff they're doing in the first movie where a lot of it is that they're not, I don't want to say bits, but it's a lot of like people kind of talking out of their ass in a really fun way.

• 21:23Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 21:23Bill Simmons?

  And then in the second movie, it's not like that as much.

• 21:25Chris Ryan?

  Definitely an extension of that like dorm room kind of like philosophy.

• 21:30Bill Simmons?

  Hanging out on the hallway at three in the morning.

• 21:31Chris Ryan?

  I have five, like you said, I have like five or six things that I think are pretty uniquely cool that I've got going on in my head, even if I'm wrong.

• 21:40Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 21:41Chris Ryan?

  And I'm just going to keep trying them out on people until it clicks.

• 21:44Sean Fennessey?

  Linklater's stock and trade through his first five movies.

• 21:46Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 21:47Sean Fennessey?

  Slacker, that's all slacker is, is just people popping into cabs and walking into bars and being like, here's my theory of the world.

• 21:53Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 21:53Sean Fennessey?

  You know, that's what waking life is, that's what Dazed is, you know, think about Rory Slater riffing on George Washington.

• 21:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 21:59Sean Fennessey?

  And, you know, growing weed, like all that's, it's all like, he came up with like a thousand theories.

• 22:04Bill Simmons?

  It was a crop, man.

• 22:06Sean Fennessey?

  Dazed is, we have to read Dazed at some point, by the way, it's still one of the best movies ever, but he, um, he's like an accumulator of people's cool anecdotes.

• 22:13Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 22:13Sean Fennessey?

  And he knows how to reprocess and share.

• 22:15Bill Simmons?

  Which Tertie was good at too.

• 22:16Sean Fennessey?

  Same, um, but then the other thing too, that I think makes it so special, I'm sure we'll talk about it.

• 22:22Sean Fennessey?

  Casting actors who could write with him to make these people real is like the whole, it's the whole thing. It's the whole movie, it's the reason why it works, it's a reason why that sentimentality stuff works. Like he's just, the whole movie just feels like it's happening in front of you for real. And there's so few movies that you can really say that about, so it just goes a long way.

• 22:43Bill Simmons?

  It has a real angle on love, and I think if I had to summarize the theme of this movie, it's obviously about connection, but she says that thing about how she worked for the old man. And once he told me that he spent his whole life thinking about his career and his work, and he was 52, and it suddenly struck him that he had never really given himself of, given anything of himself. His life was for no one and nothing, he was almost crying saying that, which I think is the point of the movie. It's like, if you don't connect with somebody, your fucking life's gonna suck.

• 23:11Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 23:12Bill Simmons?

  And it doesn't matter how successful you are, because Jesse, he gets that question later, would you rather be, would you rather be really good at something, or would you rather find a connection?

• 23:20Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 23:21Bill Simmons?

  And I think that's, I think that's what, whatever Linklater cared about, I think that was it. Cause he'd probably had a little bit of a success, but he also hadn't found anybody that, you know, he was with, and he was probably battling that somehow became the movie.

• 23:34Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I mean, the, the thing that Celine says to Jesse in the alley when they're talking about whether they would have families, or, or what their futures might be like, and she's like, if there's any kind of God, it wouldn't be in any of us, not you or me, but just in the space in between. So this idea that it's like, the, the effort to become. Connected to somebody is where like this almost like holy, holy magic exists.

• 23:59Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm.

• 24:00Bill Simmons?

  Well, that's why she's the rock of the movie in a lot of ways.

• 24:03Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, she's able to articulate these incredibly complicated ideas.

• 24:06Bill Simmons?

  She's just better at explaining her point in life, but he's more interesting at it.

• 24:10Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 24:11Bill Simmons?

  The combo is really good.

• 24:13Chris Ryan?

  Jesse's doing, Jesse's doing power rankings.

• 24:16Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, he's really good at the gimmicks and she's really good at the meat of the conversation.

• 24:20Bill Simmons?

  She's like, here's why Josh Allen should have thrown to Shakir.

• 24:26Chris Ryan?

  She's talking about.

• 24:26Sean Fennessey?

  She's like, it's not about the orbit. It's about the orbit of love. Forget the orbit route.

• 24:31Bill Simmons?

  You don't know what it's like to get blitzed by stacks.

• 24:40Bill Simmons?

  Movie characters I always wanted to meet in real life, but they didn't exist in real life. Celine's way up there.

• 24:46Sean Fennessey?

  God, she's so beautiful.

• 24:47Bill Simmons?

  She's so great.

• 24:48Chris Ryan?

  Conversely.

• 24:49Bill Simmons?

  I think I would have absolutely melted into a fucking puddle if I had met Celine at like age 24.

• 24:54Chris Ryan?

  I would have been lights out. I don't even know if I would have had the balls to do what Jesse did.

• 24:59Bill Simmons?

  He had even talked to her on the train.

• 25:01Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 25:02Bill Simmons?

  Once that accent came out and she was so interesting, I just would have been like, oh my God.

• 25:05Chris Ryan?

  She speaks like perfect English.

• 25:07Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. That's the thing is.

• 25:09Bill Simmons?

  I screwed that one up.

• 25:09Sean Fennessey?

  The, the, I think the reason that Jesse comes to life in the movie is because you can tell fairly early on, in part because she agrees to get off the train with him, but even before that, that great feeling when you're like, this person's into me.

• 25:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 25:22Sean Fennessey?

  You know, not just romantically, but just any connection you make with a person where you're like, this person's actually interested in what I'm saying. That's, it gives you like a jolt.

• 25:29Chris Ryan?

  And they communicated so well because I think she's like, they're both reading. And she doesn't like immediately go back to her book. She like turns towards him to like, be like, all right, let's keep talking.

• 25:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 25:39Chris Ryan?

  He's like, I can't believe this is happening.

• 25:41Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 25:41Chris Ryan?

  This is crazy.

• 25:43Bill Simmons?

  Ultimate Gen X movies. Slacker, Singles, Reality Bites, Kicking and Screaming, Clerks, Before Sunrise, Mallrats, Swingers?

• 25:53Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, you could throw a few.

• 25:54Bill Simmons?

  Throw in a couple, but I, I, I, this could be 20, it could be 12, it could be, but I feel like those eight have to be at least eight of the eight, eight of the, whatever the final number is.

• 26:03Sean Fennessey?

  All movies about people in their early twenties, talking about pop culture and love and existence, basically.

• 26:09Bill Simmons?

  Kind of wandering around life, hoping to connect with whoever.

• 26:11Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 26:12Bill Simmons?

  Right? That's the theme ultimately. Linklater, you mentioned Slacker, Days, Before Sunrise, that's the first three for him.

• 26:19Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:19Bill Simmons?

  Solid.

• 26:20Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 26:20Bill Simmons?

  He's.

• 26:21Sean Fennessey?

  Good job, Rick. He's 34 when this movie is being made.

• 26:25Bill Simmons?

  Hmm.

• 26:26Sean Fennessey?

  This has gotta be one of the most wise movies ever made by a person that young. Because it's not that the, what the characters are saying is wise, because it is very idealistic and very lovey dovey at times and very like, you know, just ripped, ripped a bong hit and started talking about souls, but knowing that that is how you are when you're 24 and being able to reflect on it 10 years later and like metastasize it is amazing to me. I mean, he's like.

• 26:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 26:52Sean Fennessey?

  In the 1% of, uh, capturing how young people really are in the world.

• 26:57Chris Ryan?

  It's also really cool to go and look at this movie and think about like 99 out of 100 other directors would have done so many things differently. There would have been more montages.

• 27:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 27:09Chris Ryan?

  There would have been more cuts, there would have been.

• 27:11Sean Fennessey?

  And needle drops.

• 27:12Chris Ryan?

  There would have been some sort of like, I don't know, like there would, there would be a crescendo to the film that was, th- this movie is, has like five crescendos. This movie peaks like five times, six times. Sometimes it's intellectually, sometimes it's sexually, sometimes it's, but like every other filmmaker would, and then when you're watching it though, you're not overtly aware of him doing anything.

• 27:32Bill Simmons?

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:32Chris Ryan?

  It's not like you're like, oh wow, the camera hasn't cut in a while. You're just like.

• 27:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 27:35Chris Ryan?

  Completely locked in with their conversation. It's almost invisible filmmaking.

• 27:39Bill Simmons?

  Well, it's weird to be an indie director, especially from this era and not, and also be a romantic and not have like weird shit in the movie. Cause that was another thing that the nineties, you know, couldn't resist throwing in some sort of weird monkey wrench. There are no monkey wrenches in this movie.

• 27:55Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Where was the gimp in this movie, you know?

• 27:57Chris Ryan?

  Right. I think the poet.

• 27:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Hawk, Dead Poets, which we've done.

• 28:04Bill Simmons?

  We talked about the position he was in when he did Alive. We did Reality Bites 2, Dead Poets, Mr. Date, Wei Fang. Then he has Alive, Reality Bites. Stuff's happening with them, but this cemented it. I think after this movie, even though it didn't make a shitload of money,

• 28:19Bill Simmons?

  but I think the combo of this and Reality Bites and Alive, it felt like he was a young star that led to Gattaca and then they kept going from there.

• 28:26Chris Ryan?

  But I don't think he ever really shakes this off until Turning Day. You know what I mean? Like, I don't think he...

• 28:32Bill Simmons?

  I agree.

• 28:32Chris Ryan?

  I think Turning Day was like, in some ways, like,

• 28:35Bill Simmons?

  He needed it.

• 28:35Chris Ryan?

  brought him into adulthood.

• 28:37Sean Fennessey?

  It did, but I still think this is like his most perfect creation as a character.

• 28:40Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 28:40Sean Fennessey?

  Like, it so beautifully capitalizes on the Ethan Hawke thing, which is that he looks like the coolest guy of all time, but once he starts talking, you're like, wow, this guy's like kind of insecure.

• 28:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 28:52Sean Fennessey?

  And a little bit all over the place emotionally and really well-read, but maybe insecure about that, too. Like, it's just like when you talk to Ethan Hawke in real life and you're like, wow, he's really cool, but he's more like me than he is a movie star.

• 29:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 29:04Sean Fennessey?

  Which is a unique quality that he brings to movies.

• 29:07Chris Ryan?

  The other thing that's just worth noting is that I think you could put Hawke and Linklater up there with any of the great director/actor duos.

• 29:15Sean Fennessey?

  Totally.

• 29:15Bill Simmons?

  What, they do 10 movies together?

• 29:17Sean Fennessey?

  Nine, yeah.

• 29:17Chris Ryan?

  But also, like, they're telling one big story. Like, Jesse's backstory is the story of boyhood. You know what I mean? Jesse's parents divorcing and that impacting how he looks at the world and everything his dad and his mom told him about love. That's just the movie Boyhood, like a couple, you know, a decade or so later. So, they're just basically working on like one American male project.

• 29:42Bill Simmons?

  Mm-hmm. Let's take a break and then a couple more things. We'll get to get the categories.

• 29:51Bill Simmons?

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• 30:28Bill Simmons?

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• 30:58Bill Simmons?

  All right. So we talked about Hawk and Linklater. So it took them nine months to settle on Hawk and Delpi. We'll get to some of the casting whittits with that. But, um, but he was, this movie was like impeccably rehearsed. He spent a ton of time with them. They had a script. They had a screenplay. Some stuff was added after. Julie Delpi was talking about would, is anyone actually going to like this? This isn't going to be boring to just watch us. And Hawk said, Linklater said, we're not making the movie for them. We don't have to tell any jokes. We don't have to be interesting. You guys don't even have to act. He wanted to make a power, make a film about the power of connection. And that was all he cared about. And I don't even, my guess is he never probably thought this was even going to be a big movie.

• 31:43Bill Simmons?

  I think he wanted it to be a great movie, but I don't think he was thinking, oh my God, we're going to crush. We're opening weekend. We can take it.

• 31:50Sean Fennessey?

  I don't, I mean, he's not a careerist filmmaker, even though he does make mainstream movies.

• 31:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Every once in a while there's a Bad News Bears remake in there. We were like, why'd he do that?

• 31:59Sean Fennessey?

  He dips in there to be in the mainstream sometimes, but I don't ever think of him as like trying to get butts in seats or whatever. But this one is particularly unusual because Dazed wasn't a big hit, but it was an instant cult classic. And it was made for a big studio. And this is something smaller. I really liked that quote. I don't know if you saw this, that Martin Shaffer, who was the co-founder of Castle Rock.

• 32:20Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 32:21Sean Fennessey?

  Again, there's like, how many Castle Rock movies have we done on this podcast? It's like the best production company. Uh, but he was like, this movie was almost the. Rejection of or opposite of what romantic comedies were at the time. Like it didn't fall into any of those traps. And so when I read the script, I was just like, I want to do this because it isn't like, you know, the Julia Roberts era, Meg Ryan, While You Were Sleeping, like all those movies that were so popular at that time. It was not doing those jokes.

• 32:47Chris Ryan?

  All those movies like so high concept.

• 32:48Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, all the tropey stuff that was in them and the like, I'm just a man standing before a woman and all that. Like it didn't, it's not about that. It's about something much more down to earth and also.

• 32:57Chris Ryan?

  Well, it's also just even wild to watch this compared to like Say Anything, where like Say Anything has like the whole nursing home plot.

• 33:04Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm.

• 33:05Chris Ryan?

  And all these other things going on in it. And it has like a big.

• 33:07Bill Simmons?

  Joe, Joe kept lying.

• 33:08Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, Joe, Joe, why did you?

• 33:12Chris Ryan?

  And like, there's like, there's a huge gesture with the boombox. Like this is devoid of all of that stuff. It's just the talking. It's just this, these two people growing closer.

• 33:22Bill Simmons?

  I remember being super excited to see it in the theater. Cause it had some Sundance momentum and I knew about that because that was there when you're reading all the movie stuff. But I also really liked Ethan Hawke. I liked him in Dead Poets. I liked him in Reality Bites and I liked him in Alive. And I'm like, I'm ready, I'm ready for the next journey with him. And that was kind of all I knew. And the movie, you know, surpassed all.

• 33:43Chris Ryan?

  Had you seen Killing Zoe or Killing Zo? The, because Julie Delphi is in it.

• 33:48Bill Simmons?

  I think I had, but I don't remember having a huge opinion on her.

• 33:51Sean Fennessey?

  She'd been in a lot of really big art house films in Europe. And she's in White. She's in a number of movies. But the, I love that story that Ethan Hawke tells about this movie. Which is that when he was in Dead Poets, that Peter Weir encouraged him to write for his character. He was like, write backstory, write lines for your character. I want to hear what you think this character would say.

• 34:11Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 34:11Sean Fennessey?

  And he was blown away by that experience. And he was like, wow, I guess this is how every movie is. And then he went on and did like White Fang and they were like, sir, please keep your lines to yourself. We don't need this. And so the reason he did this movie, even though he could have been doing much bigger movies is this. After meeting Linklater, they became fast friends. And he was like, I want you to write this with me. And he was like, that's all I want. I want to be in the creative process of the movie.

• 34:32Bill Simmons?

  Well, Linklater, he wrote it with Kim Crazan. They wrote it 11 days, but they didn't know the ending until the final day of filming. And then they kept tweaking.

• 34:39Sean Fennessey?

  Do you know who she is by the way, Kim Crazan?

• 34:41Bill Simmons?

  Who is it?

• 34:41Sean Fennessey?

  She's the teacher in Dazed and Confused, who at the end of the day, yeah.

• 34:46Chris Ryan?

  She's awesome.

• 34:46Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, she's great. She's in the CR zone of Throw My Life Away.

• 34:49Bill Simmons?

  Really?

• 34:52Bill Simmons?

  The Falco Copland.

• 34:55Bill Simmons?

  This movie premiered at Sundance 1995. I'm gonna read the list of movies that premiered that year and see if Sean passes out. Before Sunrise, The Usual Suspects, The Brothers McMullen, Kids from Larry Clark, Safe from Todd Haynes, The Doom Generation, The Addiction, Party Girl, Little Odessa, Mira's Wedding and Crumb.

• 35:19Chris Ryan?

  Wow.

• 35:19Sean Fennessey?

  These were at Sundance?

• 35:20Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 35:21Chris Ryan?

  Same year.

• 35:22Sean Fennessey?

  That's insane. I mean, if you're.

• 35:23Bill Simmons?

  Do you come back from that festival? It's like, what happened to Sean? He died at Sundance.

• 35:28Chris Ryan?

  You would've come back and been like, the culture is changing, you know, like, or something.

• 35:32Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, this is specifically, I'm sure I've said versions of this on the show before, but like, this is specifically why I became obsessed with movies, is that this thing was happening in 93, 94, 95, and I was reading all the magazines and being like, how do I get closer to that?

• 35:45Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 35:45Sean Fennessey?

  How do I, because if you see like, Little Odessa or The Addiction, you're like, I don't know, there are movies like this? You know, you never, you could have never imagined. And then this movie is one of those movies too.

• 35:55Bill Simmons?

  Party Girl, or Girl.

• 35:57Chris Ryan?

  I saw this and I was like, I just have to, I obviously have to get a Euro pass.

• 36:01Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. You've got to become an Austrian man.

• 36:06Bill Simmons?

  2.5 million dollar budget made 22.5 million.

• 36:10Bill Simmons?

  Everyone in this film jokes that it was the lowest grossing film ever to get a sequel. I don't know if that's factually true.

• 36:16Sean Fennessey?

  Sure, there was some like junky trauma movies that got sequels.

• 36:21Chris Ryan?

  It meant 10x its money. I think that's the.

• 36:22Bill Simmons?

  I mean, Penitentiary 2 with Lee and Isaac Kennedy happened. So I'm just saying, I'm sure there were some sequels. Roger Ebert.

• 36:30Bill Simmons?

  Disappointing start to the year for Raj. Three stars. Thought for sure it'd be the three and a half.

• 36:38Sean Fennessey?

  A little more muted in his praise.

• 36:40Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. He wrote, uh, "This sort of scenario has happened, I imagine, millions of times. It has rarely happened in a nicer, sweeter, more gentle way than in Richard Linklater's Before Sunrise, which I would call a love affair for Generation X." You're fucking A right, Raj. Except that Jesse and Celine stand outside their generation, especially outside its boring insistence on being bored. Yo, Raj!

• 37:05Chris Ryan?

  Are you thinking about maybe asking?

• 37:06Bill Simmons?

  Shots fired at Gen X.

• 37:08Chris Ryan?

  Ask Deep Seek if Raj has changed his mind in heaven?

• 37:12Bill Simmons?

  Well, he did write that Delphi is ravishingly beautiful and more important, warm and matter of fact.

• 37:20Bill Simmons?

  And he says, this is Linklater's third film. He's on to something. He likes the way ordinary time unfolds for people as they cross paths, start talking, share their thoughts and uncertain philosophies. Raj.

• 37:33Sean Fennessey?

  Roger Ebert was 53 when this movie came out. I think that's notable.

• 37:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 37:38Sean Fennessey?

  You know, we've always talked about like, why are 50 something movie critics reviewing Billy Madison? You know, like, that's just not, that doesn't make sense. That doesn't like, that movie's not for them. Um, and you could make the case that this is a movie not for

• 37:53Bill Simmons?

  Not for Raj.

• 37:54Sean Fennessey?

  55 year old men, you know?

• 37:55Bill Simmons?

  Raj couldn't get a grasp on Gen X.

• 37:57Chris Ryan?

  Nicely enough, it is now, though.

• 37:59Sean Fennessey?

  It is now. It has aged nicely.

• 38:02Bill Simmons?

  Categories, um, new category. We have some new ones because we had that mailbag. Thanks to everybody who sent, uh, sent ideas. What's the exact perfect age to see this movie?

• 38:13Chris Ryan?

  I think it

• 38:13Bill Simmons?

  Would you have?

• 38:14Chris Ryan?

  Freshman, I would actually say summer after freshman year of college. You want to be aware that people do study abroad semesters slash go over to Europe to go backpacking or traveling around. But I don't think you want to have done it yet because then you may have like too many takes on like what Jesse did or didn't do right.

• 38:34Bill Simmons?

  Mm hmm.

• 38:35Chris Ryan?

  But like, if you just are like going into college or in college, I think that's the perfect time.

• 38:42Sean Fennessey?

  I, I wrote down 24 because the two characters are 24.

• 38:47Sean Fennessey?

  I will say, I saw it probably when I was 14 or 15. The thing that it does if you're 14 or 15 is it's almost like a playbook. You know, it's like, if you encounter a lady on a train, like, these are some moves you can make. And when you're 14 or 15, you don't have any moves. You don't know what to do. And so it almost, you like internalize some of this stuff and it could, I don't, so I don't think it's the best time. But I would say it was very helpful to watch in general Ethan Hawke as Troy as this guy and be like, okay. Is this an archetype that can work? Like full of shit, tall, brown haired guy? Like, I'm like, can I do this? Um, so that was nice. But I think, I think being, I think being roughly where you were seemed right.

• 39:30Bill Simmons?

  I wrote down 23.

• 39:32Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 39:33Bill Simmons?

  I was 25 when I saw it. I think I would have probably enjoyed it slightly more at 23 because you're like even a little bit more idealistic at 23.

• 39:40Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 39:40Bill Simmons?

  But you are also, you have some of your bullshit moves down at that point, too. But it's somewhere in that, I would say, early twenties. But I gotta say, it was super enjoyable to watch at my age now. I was like, wow. Still, this movie's still got it. Most rewatchable scene. So, this movie starts with a mid 40s couple fighting in a foreign language and it somehow works.

• 40:02Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, it's about, I think they're fighting about money.

• 40:04Sean Fennessey?

  No.

• 40:05Bill Simmons?

  No, there's actually an answer to this.

• 40:06Chris Ryan?

  What is it?

• 40:07Sean Fennessey?

  It's about drinking.

• 40:07Chris Ryan?

  Oh.

• 40:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 40:09Chris Ryan?

  Who's, who's got the drinking problem, the death, the husband or the wife?

• 40:11Sean Fennessey?

  Do you want to do the translation?

• 40:13Bill Simmons?

  I had this on What's Aged The Best. The man is reading in his newspaper how 70,000 women are addicted to alcohol. And he says, "You're one of them," to his wife. And she volleys back and says, "He's the alcoholic." And he says, "I have a reason to do it. I'm married to you."

• 40:29Chris Ryan?

  Wow.

• 40:29Bill Simmons?

  That's what they said in the other language.

• 40:31Sean Fennessey?

  It's perfect.

• 40:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 40:32Sean Fennessey?

  It's perfect in so many ways for this film series.

• 40:34Bill Simmons?

  But then it leads to, yeah, for the series, it's a really interesting way to start it.

• 40:41Bill Simmons?

  But it leads to, do you ever hear that when couples get older, they lose the ability to hear each other? Which is one of those like, might be true, might not be true.

• 40:49Speaker 07

  Have you ever heard that as couples get older, they lose their ability to hear each other?

• 40:54Chris Ryan?

  No.

• 40:55Speaker 07

  Well, supposedly, men lose their ability to hear higher pitched sounds. And women eventually lose hearing on the low end. I guess they sort of nullify each other or something.

• 41:05Chris Ryan?

  I guess. Nature's way of allowing couples to grow old together without killing each other.

• 41:11Bill Simmons?

  But a good conversation starter.

• 41:14Chris Ryan?

  I think hearing gets really, really bad.

• 41:15Bill Simmons?

  I just think your hearing gets worse when you get older. I don't know if it has anything to do with who you're with.

• 41:19Chris Ryan?

  I now can't hear anything like when the water, like water is on.

• 41:22Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, me too. I have the same problem.

• 41:24Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 41:24Chris Ryan?

  It just so happens that my wife talks while that happens.

• 41:28Bill Simmons?

  Next scene. Jesse gets Celine to leave the train.

• 41:32Chris Ryan?

  All right, all right. Think of it like this.

• 41:36Chris Ryan?

  Uh, jump ahead. 10, 20 years, okay? And you're married. And only your marriage doesn't have that same energy that it used to have, you know? You start to blame your husband. You start to think about.

• 41:48Bill Simmons?

  All those guys you've met in your life and what might have happened if you picked up with one of them. Right? Well, I'm one of those guys. That's me. You know, so think of this as time travel from then to now. Uh, to find out what you're missing out on. See, what this really could be is a gigantic favor to both you and your future husband. To find out that you're not missing out on anything. I'm just as big as loser as he is, totally unmotivated, totally boring. And you made the right choice and you're really happy.

• 42:21Bill Simmons?

  Let me get my bag.

• 42:25Bill Simmons?

  Jump ahead 10, 20 years, okay? You're married. Well, your marriage doesn't have that same energy that it used to have. Sounded like Klosterman.

• 42:35Bill Simmons?

  Great, great, great way to get her to come off the train. And then in the, uh, in some of the pieces about.

• 42:44Bill Simmons?

  Some of the pieces about it, he said they really improv spitballs all kinds of scenarios for this and couldn't get Delpy in the right spot with. No, I'd actually get off the train for that. And then they came up with this time machine thing. She said, he would have to show me that he was really smart. He has to be smart and funny. That's the only way I would get off the train. The time traveler thing. And she's like, okay, that I would get off the train for. And then they were off.

• 43:10Chris Ryan?

  Can you imagine if Julie Delpy was like, I don't believe it.

• 43:14Chris Ryan?

  Sorry, not buying it.

• 43:17Bill Simmons?

  You should have thrown to Shakir.

• 43:23Sean Fennessey?

  I'm sensing a new category coming up.

• 43:26Sean Fennessey?

  The Shakir what if.

• 43:31Bill Simmons?

  Next category, the long one-shot bus ride as Jesse does advanced metrics on souls.

• 43:37Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. I gotta admit, Jesse kind of blew my mind in that one.

• 43:41Bill Simmons?

  It was great.

• 43:41Sean Fennessey?

  We paused the movie last night to discuss this for five minutes.

• 43:44Bill Simmons?

  I've ever heard in a movie. It's like, yeah, he's right. Let me souls that we start out with.

• 43:49Sean Fennessey?

  Can we break it down very briefly?

• 43:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 43:50Sean Fennessey?

  The pivot is all living things have a soul. Every leaf has a soul and that's how you explain it. Is that fair?

• 43:56Chris Ryan?

  Oh, so I used to be, I used to be a tree in Florida.

• 44:00Sean Fennessey?

  So I kicked that to my wife last night and she was like, yeah, but when the earth started, we, it was all just bacteria. And I was like, I don't have a response. Like she just shut me down. Like she just nailed it scientifically.

• 44:10Chris Ryan?

  Check out the big brain on Eileen.

• 44:14Bill Simmons?

  They should just turn First Take, instead of talking about sports, it should just be like, like Stephen A. And Matt Doc talking about soulmates.

• 44:20Sean Fennessey?

  I would listen to that.

• 44:21Chris Ryan?

  Richard Linklater's First Take would be amazing.

• 44:25Bill Simmons?

  The long one-shot bus ride and just long one-shots like that in general, from a rewatchable standpoint, had so much fun in the movie. I was, because I watched it twice, leading up to the pod. And it's just so much fun to just watch the background and be like, did they cheat this? No, they didn't cheat it. It's all one-shot and they basically did it like a play.

• 44:45Chris Ryan?

  I love that the movie starts where the graduate ends. It was like them at the back of the bus.

• 44:50Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah, yeah. The listing booth scene.

• 44:55Sean Fennessey?

  That's my next one as well.

• 44:57Bill Simmons?

  Which is my winner for most rewatchable.

• 44:59Sean Fennessey?

  Is it?

• 45:00Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 45:00Sean Fennessey?

  Interesting. This is, I would not have guessed that if I had to pick.

• 45:03Bill Simmons?

  That scene's great.

• 45:05Sean Fennessey?

  No dialogue.

• 45:06Bill Simmons?

  No dialogue and really smart and really well played. Linklater said it was the only time he withheld anything from the two of them.

• 45:14Chris Ryan?

  About what the song was gonna sound like?

• 45:16Bill Simmons?

  They had never heard the song. And he says, you can really see them listening because they'd never heard that yearning creaky thing. The singer's Kath Blum.

• 45:25Bill Simmons?

  Hawk said, it's probably my single favorite take of anything I've ever been involved with. And then Dopey said, that was really special. It was like magic. Every time I felt Ethan looking away, I would look at him and vice versa. I almost fell in love with him right there. But then Rick said, cut. Does that's a whole separate podcast of the Hawk-Dopey real life relationship.

• 45:43Sean Fennessey?

  Also talked about this a long time with my wife last night.

• 45:46Bill Simmons?

  Like, there had to have been one night where they got drunk and things happened.

• 45:49Sean Fennessey?

  I believe my question was, over/under, how many times have they hooked up? Five?

• 45:52Bill Simmons?

  And, oh, yeah.

• 45:53Chris Ryan?

  I'd say at least, at least three.

• 45:56Bill Simmons?

  Did they date? Did they date for like a week?

• 45:58Sean Fennessey?

  They're very, they're very circumspect about this.

• 46:01Chris Ryan?

  The whole Uma thing too, yeah.

• 46:03Sean Fennessey?

  She doesn't come into the picture, I think, until 96.

• 46:05Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, well, I don't want to.

• 46:06Bill Simmons?

  There is no way that they didn't get drunk and had a, at least a one-nighter. There's no way.

• 46:12Sean Fennessey?

  That is the power of this movie is, is that you absolutely believe, in my heart of hearts, I'm like, they're actually soulmates. Like, no matter what happens, and those actors are.

• 46:21Bill Simmons?

  There's one other movie, Jackie Brown, Bridget Fonda, De Niro.

• 46:27Bill Simmons?

  When he was fucking her, standing up from behind. I was like, those two are soulmates.

• 46:33Chris Ryan?

  What's her character's name?

• 46:36Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, oh my god, I forget.

• 46:38Bill Simmons?

  That's the nearest funniest moment ever in a movie.

• 46:40Chris Ryan?

  She's fucking incredible in that. She's great. I can't wait to do that movie. It's on the list.

• 46:45Sean Fennessey?

  I can't wait.

• 46:46Bill Simmons?

  Listing booth is great. And the fact that it was one take and that was all the first one, I just, I love that.

• 46:53Sean Fennessey?

  Magical.

• 46:54Bill Simmons?

  Uh, amusement parks.

• 46:57Bill Simmons?

  This is more good Jesse theories. Rich parents give their kids too much. Poor parents don't give their kids enough. There's nothing in the middle. He's just whipping it all out at this point.

• 47:05Sean Fennessey?

  All his material.

• 47:06Bill Simmons?

  Do you know any happy couples? I like being at amusement parks just in general, a movie or a TV show, always a win. You get to see good scenery. A lot of people walk around. The homeless poet.

• 47:16Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 47:16Chris Ryan?

  My guy.

• 47:18Sean Fennessey?

  So you.

• 47:19Bill Simmons?

  This poem is great.

• 47:21Sean Fennessey?

  Written by a real poet.

• 47:22Bill Simmons?

  I went and I actually read it and it's just sweet cakes and milkshakes. I'm a delusion angel. I'm a fantasy parade.

• 47:29Chris Ryan?

  Real beat stuff.

• 47:30Bill Simmons?

  It is. Good, like little short sentences.

• 47:33Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. I love poetry, Bill.

• 47:34Bill Simmons?

  Delusion.

• 47:34Sean Fennessey?

  Coffee shop Bill?

• 47:35Chris Ryan?

  This is my favorite Bill. English major Bill?

• 47:38Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 47:39Bill Simmons?

  Drop a tear in my wine glass. Look at those big eyes. See what you mean to me? It's great stuff.

• 47:45Sean Fennessey?

  Shades of Woman Whoa Man.

• 47:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I love it.

• 47:49Chris Ryan?

  Man.

• 47:49Bill Simmons?

  That's a homeless poet. Thumbs up.

• 47:52Chris Ryan?

  His margins are low. Like he's like, if I, this poet doesn't hit, I don't know if I'm able to afford smoke.

• 47:57Sean Fennessey?

  Give me whatever you think is appropriate too.

• 47:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 48:00Sean Fennessey?

  You know, not putting a price tag on it.

• 48:01Bill Simmons?

  Love that era. Uh, next one.

• 48:04Sean Fennessey?

  Wait, you, so you skipped over the palm reading?

• 48:06Chris Ryan?

  No, he skipped over the kiss.

• 48:09Sean Fennessey?

  Well, you said amusement park, which could include the Ferris wheel.

• 48:13Bill Simmons?

  Yes.

• 48:13Sean Fennessey?

  But you're, are you including the Ferris wheel on that?

• 48:15Bill Simmons?

  It's all amusement park.

• 48:16Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 48:16Bill Simmons?

  So you'd put fortune teller in there?

• 48:18Sean Fennessey?

  I love that scene.

• 48:19Bill Simmons?

  Stardust. I like the actress.

• 48:21Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 48:22Bill Simmons?

  The fortune teller.

• 48:22Sean Fennessey?

  I've got her on a list here.

• 48:24Bill Simmons?

  I should have put that in here.

• 48:27Bill Simmons?

  Great question. That is asked, would you rather find love or excel at one thing? That whole scene.

• 48:33Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm. You know, I believe if there's any kind of God, it wouldn't be in any of us. Not you or me. But just this little space in between.

• 48:47Speaker 07

  If there's any kind of magic in this world, it must be in the attempt of understanding someone, sharing something.

• 48:56Speaker 07

  I know, it's almost impossible to succeed, but who cares, really? The answer must be in the attempt.

• 49:07Sean Fennessey?

  Right, and your answer to that question was, it's one great thing and it's crushing tape. That's what you do. You chose that over love.

• 49:14Chris Ryan?

  He's breaking down Spags' defense.

• 49:17Bill Simmons?

  Three blitzers overloaded on one side. He's gotta see that.

• 49:27Bill Simmons?

  The fake phone calls.

• 49:30Sean Fennessey?

  Oh yeah, I like that scene a lot too.

• 49:31Chris Ryan?

  Can you imagine telling Celine?

• 49:36Chris Ryan?

  I want a best day with you, I want to do this. But in about 20 years, they're gonna invent something called all 22. And it's gonna take over my life, so I'm actually sparing you for later.

• 49:48Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, the reverse time traveler. I've seen the future and it's all 22.

• 49:52Bill Simmons?

  They went empty backfield, five wide.

• 49:54Sean Fennessey?

  I'm sorry, Celine, but I'm a ball knower, yeah.

• 49:56Bill Simmons?

  Spags' blitz, he's five wide out. Something's gotta break.

• 50:02Sean Fennessey?

  This is incoherent to like 30% of the audience.

• 50:05Bill Simmons?

  The fake phone calls should not have worked, but I really enjoyed the scene.

• 50:08Sean Fennessey?

  It's really cute.

• 50:09Chris Ryan?

  It's awesome.

• 50:09Bill Simmons?

  It's really funny. It's a really good gimmick. It's one of those things, like if you're an aspiring screenwriter or director.

• 50:15Chris Ryan?

  It's a delty thing, though.

• 50:16Sean Fennessey?

  And she sells it. She is so charming and smart in this.

• 50:19Chris Ryan?

  She brought it. She was like, I used to do this with my friends.

• 50:21Bill Simmons?

  I like her American accent too, where she's like, dude, you're on a Kohler.

• 50:25Sean Fennessey?

  She's so good.

• 50:26Bill Simmons?

  Jesse gets the bartender to give him a bottle of wine is great.

• 50:29Chris Ryan?

  Got a lot of questions about that.

• 50:31Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. More wisdom from Celine in another scene. When she talks about love.

• 50:40Speaker 03

  Earlier about after a few years, how a couple would begin to hate each other by anticipating their reactions or getting tired of their mannerisms. I think it would be the opposite for me. I think I can really fall in love when I know everything about someone. The way he's gonna part his hair, which shirt he's gonna wear that day, knowing the exact story he'd tell in a given situation. I'm sure that's when I know I'm really in love.

• 51:15Bill Simmons?

  Idealistic, great. I mailed that to my wife and I said, "This is how I feel when I know you're about to lose your keys." And she didn't think it was funny.

• 51:25Chris Ryan?

  Does your wife like this movie?

• 51:27Bill Simmons?

  Loves it.

• 51:27Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 51:28Bill Simmons?

  Like an all-timer. It might have been one of the first ones that we owned on DVD, but she bought anyway on streaming. It was one of those. It was like a double, one of the first double purchases.

• 51:39Sean Fennessey?

  We gotta get her that Criterion Collection box set.

• 51:41Bill Simmons?

  We have it.

• 51:42Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 51:42Bill Simmons?

  We have that now, too. Great, great Criterion. Like, really one of the best ones.

• 51:49Sean Fennessey?

  This is where I was going. This is, I mean, this is one of the best ones.

• 51:52Chris Ryan?

  What will you happen when he, when he's, he's like, "Now I must destroy Sean and get..."

• 51:56Sean Fennessey?

  I welcome it.

• 51:56Chris Ryan?

  Three times.

• 51:57Bill Simmons?

  No, cuz I'm only buying stuff, like, I go on Amazon and when they have the, I have a certain price limit cuz I'm trying to not go crazy like Sean. But like, it's like Total Recall's 57% off today. I'm like, "Fine." $11.

• 52:12Sean Fennessey?

  This is how it starts. I told you, this is how it starts.

• 52:15Bill Simmons?

  Fine.

• 52:15Sean Fennessey?

  It's a, you start looking at deals and then all of a sudden you're like, "Ah, $39.99? Ah, $49.99?"

• 52:21Bill Simmons?

  I was looking at the Daniel Craig box set. "Oh, all five for 40 bucks?"

• 52:25Sean Fennessey?

  For the, for the Bond movies.

• 52:26Bill Simmons?

  For the Bonds. All five?

• 52:28Sean Fennessey?

  It's how it starts, man. I love it. I support you 100%.

• 52:31Bill Simmons?

  Thank you. I knew I'd have your support. Uh, last scene is the ending, which I think is just brilliant and would be my other pick for most.

• 52:38Chris Ryan?

  What do you consider part of the ending? Do you go sex scene, statue, train?

• 52:41Bill Simmons?

  No, I'm saying.

• 52:42Chris Ryan?

  Or just the train?

• 52:43Bill Simmons?

  Though, the goodbye, first when he's, she's lying on his lap.

• 52:46Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 52:47Bill Simmons?

  They drop the stuff off.

• 52:48Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:49Bill Simmons?

  But I think the, the most genius part of this movie is when he shows all the places they were.

• 52:54Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 52:55Sean Fennessey?

  Love that.

• 52:56Bill Simmons?

  Which is obviously stolen from John Carpenter in Halloween, and I know that was a big influence on the movie.

• 53:01Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 53:02Bill Simmons?

  But I thought it worked really well. You know, Myers, Myers was there and then you're standing next to that hedge. Linklater is like, this could work for romance.

• 53:11Chris Ryan?

  You just saw Celine get on the train and Michael Myers.

• 53:15Bill Simmons?

  He's just right next to her.

• 53:19Bill Simmons?

  Bringing it all back.

• 53:19Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 53:20Bill Simmons?

  But I love that, cause I guess the point is like, you know, they, they gave all these places life. They're not there anymore, but it's still fucking cool. And hey, there's this memory that was in this spot, in this spot.

• 53:31Sean Fennessey?

  For the record, I think it's, uh, Michelangelo Antonioni's Lake Cleese, where they do that trick before Halloween.

• 53:37Bill Simmons?

  Before Carver?

• 53:38Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, just for, just for the record.

• 53:41Bill Simmons?

  Damn it. Uh, what do you got for most?

• 53:43Chris Ryan?

  There's movies before Halloween.

• 53:44Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I thought that was the first movie.

• 53:46Chris Ryan?

  My first, uh, is the reverse of that. It's the, it's the first train sequence. It's them on the train getting to know each other, cause I just find it mesmerizing and so naturalistic.

• 53:54Bill Simmons?

  CR was a big cafe car guy too.

• 53:57Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 53:58Sean Fennessey?

  What was your order?

• 54:00Chris Ryan?

  Oh, like I, I just movie brought back to me that I just function off of like coffee and cigarettes for, from 20 or 30.

• 54:06Bill Simmons?

  Smoking car hoping for Julie Delpy.

• 54:09Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, who wasn't?

• 54:11Chris Ryan?

  You were Edie Falco.

• 54:12Bill Simmons?

  What's your must rewatch?

• 54:13Sean Fennessey?

  Well, there was one small one that you skipped over that is sort of the end, but I really love the cut away to not showing whether they have sex or not. And then they wander and they see a guy playing a harpsichord.

• 54:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 54:25Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 54:26Sean Fennessey?

  And they see him in the window and then they do the, let me take a picture of you, which I think is like a mesmerizing moment.

• 54:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that, you're right.

• 54:33Sean Fennessey?

  I love that scene a lot. My pick would probably be the listening booth too. I love that one a lot.

• 54:39Bill Simmons?

  What's age the best? Movies set on trains. I love a good train scene in a movie. Obviously I was riding a train back and forth as a parent, as a child of divorce.

• 54:51Bill Simmons?

  I have a bunch of them. CR, give me a couple.

• 54:53Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, just, uh, Jesse as a takesman, just Jesse having like lots of like, I have like a bunch of bits.

• 54:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 55:00Chris Ryan?

  Here's, here's like, I have five of them. This is, this is how I'm.

• 55:02Sean Fennessey?

  Jesse going club shay shay.

• 55:04Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. And, uh,

• 55:05Bill Simmons?

  That was like me on my pod last night doing my Emmett Smith. I was like, I'm gonna do my Emmett Smith bit.

• 55:10Chris Ryan?

  I, I stepped on this, but it was Jesse's story being the story that boyhood becomes.

• 55:16Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 55:16Chris Ryan?

  And the way that like his character kind of gets woven throughout Linklater's filmography are two, two of my favorite things I've aged best.

• 55:22Sean Fennessey?

  Hmm, I mean, the Eurail, have you been on the Eurail?

• 55:25Bill Simmons?

  I had it.

• 55:25Sean Fennessey?

  It's incredible. It's just an amazing experience. I recommend everyone try to do it, even if you don't do it when you're 22 and idealistic. It's just such a fun way to travel. Um, I think specifically that letting your actors, casting actors who can write and letting them write with you is such a cool idea.

• 55:42Bill Simmons?

  Yes.

• 55:42Sean Fennessey?

  You know, Mike Lee does this in his movies too. This is like a hack for sophisticated filmmakers. Apatow does it.

• 55:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 55:50Sean Fennessey?

  A lot of really good directors do this and it's all about making the movie as good as it can be because the actors need to be fully on board with what you're, the story you're trying to tell.

• 56:00Bill Simmons?

  I think it's a little bit different when you're doing a good drama versus doing an Apatow movie because Apatow, it seems like they're, they're really working like bits and they have like, let's riff on this or riff on that. And this is like, they have like character arcs that they really have to track in this.

• 56:14Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, totally. Yeah. It seems like they worked really hard on it and like the overlapping dialogue, it was kind of rehearsed to a T, like you said. Also, just the obvious stuff.

• 56:21Bill Simmons?

  Um, like Vienna in the summer. I had that. What's aged the best? Vienna.

• 56:26Sean Fennessey?

  Just amazing.

• 56:26Bill Simmons?

  Seems great.

• 56:27Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 56:27Bill Simmons?

  Vienna just gets wins left and right in culture. Never been.

• 56:31Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. I went there on an Easter weekend once. It was shut down. So it was a lot like this, but it was very cold. Hmm. Interesting. Also, French girls, I think that's aged well. You know, just a beautiful blonde French girl on the train. That's like, that's like an archetype.

• 56:43Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that, that would happen in real life.

• 56:47Bill Simmons?

  I had movies that eventually have sequels where the characters age with the sequels. It just, I don't feel like that's recipe is lost yet. It's really hard to pull off.

• 56:56Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. We got Dr. Loomis. That's one. Who else? Who else is on that list?

• 56:59Bill Simmons?

  The town too, whenever that happens. Doug McCray.

• 57:01Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Yeah. Jim. Yeah.

• 57:03Bill Simmons?

  Shine.

• 57:04Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, Shine and Jim.

• 57:05Bill Simmons?

  See what happened to Shine now? Um, I, for what's aged the best, the anonymous cemetery, I thought was cool because I just didn't know that story. I always thought that was a neat idea for a cemetery. So the film starts June 16th, 1994 and ends June 17th, 1994, which was also, we did it 30 for 30 about that day. That was the OJ car chase, the first day of the first US World Cup, Knicks Rockets game five, Rangers Stanley Cup parade. Arnold Palmer's last US Open round and Jesse said goodbye to Celine. All happened on June 7th, 2094.

• 57:38Chris Ryan?

  Jesse, instead of going to the bar with Celine, Jesse's like, I really think maybe if I get to the airport, they're showing Nick's rockets.

• 57:45Bill Simmons?

  Or, or it's like, the car chases on the train station.

• 57:50Chris Ryan?

  During the course of this day, someone had come up to them and been like, you guys are not going to believe what's happening with OJ right now. Do you think that they would have liked?

• 57:58Sean Fennessey?

  Is Jesse from Texas?

• 58:00Chris Ryan?

  I, well.

• 58:01Bill Simmons?

  Oh, that's, I had that for probably an answer, but where's Jesse from?

• 58:04Sean Fennessey?

  I can't remember if they answered it.

• 58:06Chris Ryan?

  I was guessing like Ohio, but.

• 58:07Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, no, he said, does he say Ohio?

• 58:10Chris Ryan?

  I think he, or maybe he goes to college in Ohio.

• 58:12Bill Simmons?

  He feels like he's like a Sacramento.

• 58:14Chris Ryan?

  Really?

• 58:14Bill Simmons?

  Like a Northern California somewhere.

• 58:16Sean Fennessey?

  I can't remember. I don't know. Maybe I thought he said.

• 58:17Bill Simmons?

  I don't think he ever says it.

• 58:18Sean Fennessey?

  He's from like Shaker Heights or something. Um, okay. Well, the other thing is that it's June 16th, I believe, because that's the day that.

• 58:26Bill Simmons?

  James Joyce.

• 58:26Sean Fennessey?

  James Joyce's Ulysses is set.

• 58:28Bill Simmons?

  Just a couple of quotes for what's aged the best. If none of your friends or family know you're dead, it's not like really being dead. People can invent the best or worst for you. That made me think that was deep. You know what the worst thing about somebody breaking up with you, it's when you remember how little you thought about the people you broke up with. And you realize that's how little they're thinking of you. One of the best quotes of any movie like this.

• 58:52Sean Fennessey?

  That's what I'm talking about with the wisdom of Linklater. Like that line is insane. It, every person who hears that line can understand exactly where it's coming from.

• 59:00Bill Simmons?

  If there's any magic in this world, it must be in the attempt of understanding someone.

• 59:07Bill Simmons?

  So.

• 59:07Sean Fennessey?

  Do I keep pottin' with you guys?

• 59:09Bill Simmons?

  Great shot, Gordon Award for most cinematic shot. What do you got, C R?

• 59:14Chris Ryan?

  I have, uh, Celine with her head in Jesse's lap in front of the Archduke Albrecht statue.

• 59:20Bill Simmons?

  I had the wide shot of Jesse sitting on the railing, talking to her with that like beautiful building behind them. I thought it was really cool. I think the ending's really good, too.

• 59:28Sean Fennessey?

  I had the going down the cobblestone streets when there's the big dip and they've all been wedded, Michael Mann style.

• 59:35Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 59:35Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 59:38Bill Simmons?

  Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happyness Award for Best Needle Drop, clearly the Kath Blum song.

• 59:42Chris Ryan?

  Box Sonata number one, coming in at the end.

• 59:44Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, there's a couple of classical pieces.

• 59:46Chris Ryan?

  Like I said, that like I just know all the sonatas.

• 59:49Sean Fennessey?

  I believe it.

• 59:50Chris Ryan?

  I'm a ball knower when it comes to sonatas.

• 59:53Bill Simmons?

  We have a new award. You guys don't know about this one.

• 59:57Bill Simmons?

  The Sean Fantasy Award.

• 59:58Sean Fennessey?

  Oh.

• 59:59Bill Simmons?

  You finally got an award named after you.

• 1:00:01Sean Fennessey?

  I'm touched.

• 1:00:01Bill Simmons?

  The Sean Fantasy Award for stealth homage that gives every movie nerd a criteria orgasm.

• 1:00:10Bill Simmons?

  I came up with that word.

• 1:00:13Sean Fennessey?

  There are several in this movie.

• 1:00:14Bill Simmons?

  Well, I, I thought for you would be the Ferris wheel that they ride in Vienna is the same one used in The Third Man.

• 1:00:20Sean Fennessey?

  My favorite movie of all time. There are several homages to The Third Man.

• 1:00:24Bill Simmons?

  The listing booth you mentioned earlier has.

• 1:00:26Sean Fennessey?

  My Darling Clementine.

• 1:00:27Chris Ryan?

  Isn't that also, it kind of echoes into the future with Mission Impossible when Tom Cruise goes into the listing.

• 1:00:33Sean Fennessey?

  Same, same thing. Yeah. Except he's not looking at anyone.

• 1:00:37Chris Ryan?

  No, it's Fallout, right?

• 1:00:38Sean Fennessey?

  It's the one before that, I think. Yeah. Or maybe even, maybe even the one before that.

• 1:00:42Chris Ryan?

  It's the first one with Sean Harris.

• 1:00:44Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, that's not, it's the one before, before Fallout, whatever that's called.

• 1:00:47Chris Ryan?

  Anyway, sorry.

• 1:00:48Bill Simmons?

  The Fantasy Award.

• 1:00:49Sean Fennessey?

  I, I, I'm.

• 1:00:51Bill Simmons?

  Do you like criteria orgasm or criteria angasm?

• 1:00:55Chris Ryan?

  I, I think I like criteria orgasm.

• 1:00:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:57Sean Fennessey?

  Criteria orgasm.

• 1:00:58Bill Simmons?

  Criteria orgasm. Stealth homage.

• 1:01:01Sean Fennessey?

  I'm touched.

• 1:01:02Bill Simmons?

  For the movie nerds.

• 1:01:04Sean Fennessey?

  What I want people to think when I'm talking about movies is that this is sexual climax. So I really feel honored.

• 1:01:12Bill Simmons?

  New category from the mailbag. The Chess Rockwell and Brock Lenders Award for Best Character Name.

• 1:01:16Chris Ryan?

  It's gotta be Celine, right?

• 1:01:17Sean Fennessey?

  It's gotta be Celine.

• 1:01:19Bill Simmons?

  Easy. Uh, all right. We're gonna take a break and come back with yet another new category.

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• 1:02:14Bill Simmons?

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• 1:02:48Bill Simmons?

  All right, coming back. So we added this category after the mailbag, because we took out some categories, but we also didn't want to remove them completely. So what we're adding is a flex category for the, for the other hosts that aren't me. CR, you can flex any category that didn't make the blueprint cut and roll with them.

• 1:03:09Chris Ryan?

  Uh, is this the place where I could talk about smoking?

• 1:03:12Bill Simmons?

  It's, it sure is. Which one do you want to give out?

• 1:03:14Chris Ryan?

  I think we need to give out the Jesse and Before Sunrise Award for the character that absolutely should have smoked but didn't.

• 1:03:20Bill Simmons?

  This also could be the Chris Ryan Award for would this movie be better if the main character smoked?

• 1:03:24Sean Fennessey?

  I, in my memory, I thought he was a smoker.

• 1:03:26Chris Ryan?

  Well, because in reality, he chain smokes. Why? Okay, so.

• 1:03:31Bill Simmons?

  I'm so glad you're talking about this.

• 1:03:33Chris Ryan?

  A college kid in 1995 in Europe where people smoke everywhere, all of the time, with a French girl who was probably still smoking as of like December of last year. And there's not a cigarette between the two of them. And they're watching this poet who's just like, all I do is smoke. Everybody like, but these two people in 1995 don't smoke cigarettes.

• 1:03:55Bill Simmons?

  This is not only a nitpick, not only a probably an answerable question, but it's also the Chris Ryan Award. I don't understand the choice. Other than maybe Ethan Hawke felt like he smoked so much in Reality Bites. He's like, I don't want to be typecast as the guy who's just sucking.

• 1:04:10Chris Ryan?

  But he probably smoked back then.

• 1:04:12Sean Fennessey?

  That's a good take.

• 1:04:13Chris Ryan?

  It's not like he's like, I don't want to have to like, take like all these fake cigarettes.

• 1:04:17Bill Simmons?

  I, it's, it's the only thing that bothers me about this movie is I have no idea why they're not having cigs.

• 1:04:22Sean Fennessey?

  It's, it's.

• 1:04:23Bill Simmons?

  It's the most like, why aren't you guys smoking? Especially in this era, 94, 95. Like they're definitely one of the two is smoking, but probably both.

• 1:04:30Sean Fennessey?

  Could you make the case though, that it's a reverse what's aged the best? The fact that they chose not to smoke and there is no smoking in movies.

• 1:04:37Bill Simmons?

  Great call.

• 1:04:37Sean Fennessey?

  And now it feels more like a modern movie because no one is smoking.

• 1:04:40Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:04:41Bill Simmons?

  Also Ethan Hawke, great smoker. You're just like wasting a talent.

• 1:04:45Chris Ryan?

  I'm just guessing Delpi wasn't a bad smoker either.

• 1:04:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, French girl.

• 1:04:49Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:50Bill Simmons?

  Good one. Uh, the butcher's girlfriend award for weak link of the film. What do you have? Do you have a weak link of the film? It's okay not to have one.

• 1:04:58Sean Fennessey?

  Um, not like, there's no actor in the movie. I, I have, I mean, I have for, for the flex choice two, you could make the case is the weak link, but it's a, it's a bigger discussion.

• 1:05:10Bill Simmons?

  Do you have one?

• 1:05:11Chris Ryan?

  I don't have a weak link for this movie.

• 1:05:13Bill Simmons?

  I have one and you guys aren't going to be happy and I might not, not even berate, but I didn't want to just toss away the category. I was thinking about the closing credits song. And I went back and I looked through all the 1995 songs that I have on every playlist, trying to figure out if there was a better song that would have made it feel more 1995 ish.

• 1:05:30Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:05:31Chris Ryan?

  Jerry.

• 1:05:35Bill Simmons?

  Dun dun dun. I have two runner up choices and then the choice that I actually think would have could have worked.

• 1:05:40Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:05:41Bill Simmons?

  But just would have been more 1995 ish. Blue by the Jayhawks. I don't think it totally works.

• 1:05:46Sean Fennessey?

  Incredible song.

• 1:05:47Bill Simmons?

  Really good song.

• 1:05:47Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:48Bill Simmons?

  And it's 1995. Good Riddance by Green Day, probably too corny.

• 1:05:52Sean Fennessey?

  Probably. Is that a 95 song?

• 1:05:54Bill Simmons?

  Oh, it sure is.

• 1:05:54Sean Fennessey?

  Wow, that I wouldn't have guessed that early.

• 1:05:56Bill Simmons?

  But Bright as Yellow by the Innocent Miss Innocence Mission. That's the one I landed on.

• 1:06:00Chris Ryan?

  I like where your head is at, but I think that the choice of music in this movie is to make it timeless, you know?

• 1:06:06Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:06:06Chris Ryan?

  It's Casper's song.

• 1:06:07Bill Simmons?

  It's fine. That's why I forced it. I'm not sure I'm right. What's Age the Worst? I don't have anything other than, uh, there was some screenwriting credit stuff that emerged in the mid 2010s with Delpi where she basically said, we got hosed on our screenwriting credit and like later and Chris Anne were on the defense and it became a story that a lot of people wrote about. Then there was some pay stuff.

• 1:06:29Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, there was a pay gap thing too.

• 1:06:31Bill Simmons?

  As much, but Ethan Hawke was a famous actor at that point and she wasn't. And that's just, I don't know. None of that stuff bothered me that much, but I just wanted to flag it. Other than that, I don't have any What's Age the Worst?

• 1:06:42Sean Fennessey?

  Well, it's an interesting movie to put in front of younger people. I was talking to Jack Sanders before, earlier today about this movie and he said it's one of his favorites of all time and it's like a big like movie personally for him and that's interesting.

• 1:06:57Bill Simmons?

  Do you think he's a romantic because he's a Mets fan?

• 1:07:00Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, I don't know. That that has hardened my soul. So I can't imagine, although he is a way more optimistic Mets fan than I am. But I think it's interesting because it is a movie that forget about like whether or not you would have ever met Celine, even just the way that they go about their day would be radically different today. You'd have, you'd have Google Maps up and Yelp up and you'd have food guides and tourism guides and even if you were, even if you still had the spirit of wandering, the absence of technology in the movie. And even just asking strangers for help is something that I feel like people don't really do anymore, like when they run into the two theater guys.

• 1:07:36Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 1:07:37Sean Fennessey?

  I don't know if it, it's not that it aged the worst per se, that there are no cell phones or anything, but it has aged the movie in a unique way. Cause it's right on the precipice of cell phones.

• 1:07:46Chris Ryan?

  You almost watch it now and it's more fantastical than it was in 1995 to see it. Cause now you're watching it and almost like a fairy tale.

• 1:07:54Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 1:07:55Chris Ryan?

  And there's so many things that they do where you're just like, where he's just like, let's just get off this train. And I would be like so neurotic about like, where are we? Like, is this the right place to get, are we gonna be in the wrong place?

• 1:08:05Sean Fennessey?

  Right. It's closer to 1500 than 2000.

• 1:08:07Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:08Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:08:09Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:10Bill Simmons?

  Um, I watched it with my, uh, daughter and her boyfriend Tommy last week. Cause I was in Boston and, uh,

• 1:08:19Bill Simmons?

  Tommy's a romantic, so of course he liked it.

• 1:08:21Chris Ryan?

  Tommy.

• 1:08:21Bill Simmons?

  My daughter was on Tik Tok half the time and thought there was too much talking. Tough beat.

• 1:08:27Chris Ryan?

  Wow. Tough beat for Tommy.

• 1:08:30Bill Simmons?

  Tough beat for me. I was like, she was like, I told you I wasn't really in the mood for a movie. She said, it was one of those, I'll watch it again when I'm more in the mood. I'm like, you're.

• 1:08:41Sean Fennessey?

  I got, Tommy is on an unbroken streak right now.

• 1:08:43Bill Simmons?

  Tommy's doing great.

• 1:08:45Sean Fennessey?

  Amazing stuff.

• 1:08:46Bill Simmons?

  And that same night, we made a, of, of five leg parlay and the Nuggets Knicks games.

• 1:08:52Chris Ryan?

  You and Tommy?

• 1:08:52Bill Simmons?

  That we hit. Yeah. Cause he's 21 now. We can both bet on Fandel. Shout out to Fandel and we hit it. Plus 125.

• 1:08:59Chris Ryan?

  Dr. Diddy Young. Yeah.

• 1:09:01Bill Simmons?

  Let's go.

• 1:09:01Sean Fennessey?

  All I can see is you. You are Jimmy Conway and he's coming up the stairs. It's like, you popped Jerry.

• 1:09:13Bill Simmons?

  The ruffle of Hannah Rubenek Partridge over acting word. Again, nothing. I don't have anything for that.

• 1:09:19Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. I mean, you, you could maybe say that the street poet's putting a little extra Austrian mustard on it.

• 1:09:23Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Ernie Mangold, the palm readers putting a little extra on as well.

• 1:09:27Bill Simmons?

  You kind of need those, they're like these distinct characters. All right. Time for Sean's flex category. What do you have?

• 1:09:33Sean Fennessey?

  Okay. So we already sort of mentioned with the criteria orgasm that the recent rod at the Proter amusement park.

• 1:09:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:40Sean Fennessey?

  Is the Den of Thieves Benihana Award, I think it's gotta be seen stealing a location. But the George Ellerby two weeks with pay award, which I absolutely love. This is the character who definitely should have been fired. The fucking bartender who gives away a bottle of wine at a bar because one guy tells basically a lie. And says, give me the address and then never even gives him the address.

• 1:10:02Chris Ryan?

  We have to go straight to the bartender in this table.

• 1:10:05Sean Fennessey?

  This, this is a shocking act.

• 1:10:09Bill Simmons?

  I had that in picking nits. He never gets the address.

• 1:10:12Sean Fennessey?

  Never gets the address.

• 1:10:13Bill Simmons?

  Never gets the bartender's info, nothing. The guy's just like, yeah. And then he's like happily watching them leave.

• 1:10:17Sean Fennessey?

  A million questions. What kind of red was this that he gave him?

• 1:10:20Chris Ryan?

  Probably like.

• 1:10:21Bill Simmons?

  He probably gave him the cheapest.

• 1:10:23Sean Fennessey?

  How do you get that bottle open?

• 1:10:24Chris Ryan?

  That's a good question.

• 1:10:26Bill Simmons?

  Had to have been a twist off, otherwise it didn't work.

• 1:10:29Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, gotta be less than $10 bottle, right?

• 1:10:30Chris Ryan?

  She's stealing stemware. Yeah.

• 1:10:31Sean Fennessey?

  That's true. She's putting glasses in her back. I love this scene. It's a really.

• 1:10:35Bill Simmons?

  Also, honestly, like still we're in the AIDS era. Like I'm not psyched about grabbing glasses from the table.

• 1:10:40Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, wow. It's a real hot take.

• 1:10:42Bill Simmons?

  We didn't know any better in 1994. No, you weren't like, oh, cool. Let me drink this random person's glass.

• 1:10:47Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, Europe, you know, it's all different.

• 1:10:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:50Chris Ryan?

  That's true.

• 1:10:51Bill Simmons?

  The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford hottest take award. I actually have one.

• 1:10:56Chris Ryan?

  Did Jesse invent live streaming on the back of that train or the back of that bus in Vienna? When he's just like, I think we should have a public access show that's just 24/7 people all over the world. Like, isn't this basically YouTube?

• 1:11:10Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I had this in probably an answerable questions. Did Jesse's 365 24 hour day create Instagram reels and TikTok? So we're aligned. It did feel like he was on something there.

• 1:11:22Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. I mean, it's, there's elements of this in Slacker where I think.

• 1:11:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:27Chris Ryan?

  Linklater's ideas, like you're just going around Austin and these different people are having these different experiences or whatever, but. You know, he's like, if you, you know, why, why is this thing beautiful, but this thing isn't?

• 1:11:38Sean Fennessey?

  It's a great take.

• 1:11:39Bill Simmons?

  I don't even, this isn't even really a hot take.

• 1:11:43Bill Simmons?

  Maybe it is, but I don't feel like we have enough random movie crossovers.

• 1:11:49Bill Simmons?

  I guess this is a hot take. And I was thinking if they're walking around Vienna and they just run into Grover from kicking and screaming for five seconds. Cause it didn't work out for him in Prague. And then he went to Vienna. And, uh, and it was just never acknowledged or explained, but he was dressed like Grover. That would have been like one of the great movie moments of my life. Why don't we have more movie crossovers with, with just?

• 1:12:12Sean Fennessey?

  I love an extended universe.

• 1:12:13Bill Simmons?

  I just like when things get weird.

• 1:12:15Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:16Bill Simmons?

  We need to share a studio. In these dumb comic book movies, but not in like just indie movies. The indie movie multiverse would have been really fun.

• 1:12:23Chris Ryan?

  I like that. The Gen, the Gen X.

• 1:12:26Bill Simmons?

  The Gen X multiverse.

• 1:12:27Chris Ryan?

  Talk, like talkative, like multiverse.

• 1:12:30Bill Simmons?

  Cause they could have run into the redhead from Singles, who was just on a trip. Whatever her name was, Sheila Kelly.

• 1:12:35Chris Ryan?

  Sheila, yeah.

• 1:12:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:36Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:37Bill Simmons?

  She's gonna be on a trip with some old dentist and just like, and she's just in the movie for 90 seconds.

• 1:12:41Chris Ryan?

  Campbell Scott's there studying European infrastructure.

• 1:12:45Sean Fennessey?

  There's a, there isn't.

• 1:12:45Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he's working on the Euro rail.

• 1:12:47Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:48Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I was also thinking of the guys from Barcelona, um, the Whit Stillman movie, maybe finding their way into this movie. Cause he's going to Madrid, you know?

• 1:12:57Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:12:57Sean Fennessey?

  You could have seen those two guys, you could have seen Chris Augman coming over. I didn't, there is a, there is a really prominent example of this that I can't think of where a character pops up from another movie in a completely different movie. God damn it. So I'm sure somebody listening to this knows what I'm talking about.

• 1:13:09Bill Simmons?

  The best one ever was, I think I've talked about it, when, uh, Coolidge from The White Shadow ended up on St. Elsewhere as the Januar.

• 1:13:15Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, yes.

• 1:13:16Bill Simmons?

  And then Salami from The White Shadow was playing a character on the show and he saw him and he's like, Salami! And the guy's like, I don't know who you're talking about, man.

• 1:13:24Sean Fennessey?

  Were they on the same network, the two shows?

• 1:13:26Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:26Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:13:27Bill Simmons?

  I think, no, actually different networks, but same production company.

• 1:13:30Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, okay.

• 1:13:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Uh, you don't have a hottest take, right?

• 1:13:34Sean Fennessey?

  I just, I think that this movie is more romantic than, um, Casablanca, Gone with the Wind, Titanic.

• 1:13:41Bill Simmons?

  Whoa.

• 1:13:41Sean Fennessey?

  Like this is, this is, to me, this is the most, because it doesn't need all of the accoutrement of the setting and the stakes. It doesn't need life and death to make this feel so emotionally impactful.

• 1:13:53Bill Simmons?

  Hmm. Casting what ifs. Apparently Aniston and Pautro both, both, uh, tried out for the Delft role.

• 1:14:02Chris Ryan?

  Against, was gonna be against Hawk the whole time.

• 1:14:04Bill Simmons?

  So, this is true.

• 1:14:08Bill Simmons?

  It came down to two women and two men in the end. The two that got the role, Michael Vartan was the other option for Ethan Hawke's part and Sadie Frost.

• 1:14:18Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:18Bill Simmons?

  Never really a hundred percent.

• 1:14:20Chris Ryan?

  She was in Bram Stoker's Dracula, right?

• 1:14:22Sean Fennessey?

  She was.

• 1:14:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, she's.

• 1:14:23Sean Fennessey?

  She was in a few things. Was she married to Jude Law? Dated Jude Law?

• 1:14:28Chris Ryan?

  Was she part of the Sienna Miller thing?

• 1:14:31Bill Simmons?

  Michael Vartan's a weird one, though.

• 1:14:33Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I mean, eventually on Alias and Never Be Kissed and a couple of other things, but he's just a little bit more like bland, for lack of a better word than Ethan Hawke. Ethan Hawke has so much personality.

• 1:14:45Bill Simmons?

  Best that guy word, nothing, because this is movie set in Vienna with weird people you've never seen. Dionne Waiters award, though. We had the two guys who invite them to their play, Bring Me The Holes Of Wilmington's Cow.

• 1:14:57Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:14:58Bill Simmons?

  We had the fortune tower, we had the poet, and we had the benevolent bartender.

• 1:15:01Chris Ryan?

  I'm going poet.

• 1:15:03Bill Simmons?

  I have the poet.

• 1:15:03Chris Ryan?

  Great, great poem, and also seems to really take it up a notch for the two of them.

• 1:15:07Sean Fennessey?

  I'm a hundred percent going Ernie Mangle, the palm reader, who is a beloved actress in Austria. She's ninety eight years old, still alive, and she has more than one hundred credits in her career. I don't think any of them are in American productions other than this movie.

• 1:15:24Bill Simmons?

  Recasting couch director city.

• 1:15:26Chris Ryan?

  I got something here. We gotta talk.

• 1:15:28Bill Simmons?

  What do you got?

• 1:15:29Sean Fennessey?

  The singer in the bar?

• 1:15:30Chris Ryan?

  Oh, no, I'm recasting the city and I want to talk about what would happen if this was set in Boston.

• 1:15:41Chris Ryan?

  What happens if Jesse goes up to a Boston bartender at one thirty in the morning and asks for a free bottle of wine?

• 1:15:48Bill Simmons?

  He gets hit over the head in it.

• 1:15:50Chris Ryan?

  You think you're better than me? Asking for a bottle of wine?

• 1:15:53Bill Simmons?

  Fucking crazy?

• 1:15:54Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:55Bill Simmons?

  So that, so.

• 1:15:56Chris Ryan?

  Fucking OJs on the TV, white Bronco.

• 1:16:01Bill Simmons?

  So it would be, they'd be waiting to get on a train going from Boston to New York, but the Amtrak was shut down.

• 1:16:07Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:08Bill Simmons?

  And it was out for six hours.

• 1:16:09Chris Ryan?

  So they walked from Back Bay down to.

• 1:16:11Sean Fennessey?

  But is it still a French girl and a guy from America?

• 1:16:15Chris Ryan?

  No, it's a really, it's like a really obnoxious girl from.

• 1:16:21Bill Simmons?

  Who says that about her accent?

• 1:16:22Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:24Bill Simmons?

  Um, yeah, so they they end up in North End for dinner.

• 1:16:27Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:28Sean Fennessey?

  Hmm.

• 1:16:29Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that that would that would be a pretty good movie.

• 1:16:30Chris Ryan?

  They could go to like the, you know, Newbury Comics, they could go to the Middle East, you know?

• 1:16:34Bill Simmons?

  But then she ends up getting in an argument with somebody at one of the bars they go to and he gets punched out.

• 1:16:39Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:41Bill Simmons?

  Some former college football player.

• 1:16:45Bill Simmons?

  Well, Murph's just wailing on him outside a bar. Uh, my choice for the flex category is one from the mailbag, a new award. The OK, motherfucker! Award to the exact moment.

• 1:16:57Chris Ryan?

  OK, motherfucker!

• 1:16:59Bill Simmons?

  When the exact moment when the movie goes up a notch, which is the listening booth.

• 1:17:02Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:17:03Sean Fennessey?

  Yep.

• 1:17:04Bill Simmons?

  Good test drive in the new category.

• 1:17:07Chris Ryan?

  You're good.

• 1:17:09Chris Ryan?

  You know what he's looking at? Us.

• 1:17:13Sean Fennessey?

  What's um, what's the for heat status? Like, where, how far away are we?

• 1:17:18Bill Simmons?

  It's we're circling.

• 1:17:18Sean Fennessey?

  What kind of scouting has been happening?

• 1:17:20Bill Simmons?

  I've just been, it's just on every streaming platform now and I watch it all the time.

• 1:17:23Chris Ryan?

  I watch it constantly.

• 1:17:24Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:25Chris Ryan?

  Cause I wa- I started when he introduced OK, motherfucker to the, I watched that scene. And then I watched like five other scenes and I was just like, I'm back, I'm in.

• 1:17:34Bill Simmons?

  Do you, I've hit the point with heat where now I'm analyzing the most meaningless scenes in the movie. Like when they go for the fake Van Zant drop off and I'm like, how do they not realize?

• 1:17:43Chris Ryan?

  You're watching heat on all 22.

• 1:17:44Bill Simmons?

  I am.

• 1:17:47Chris Ryan?

  How did he not see Max's design?

• 1:17:49Bill Simmons?

  Right there.

• 1:17:50Chris Ryan?

  Westfield!

• 1:17:51Bill Simmons?

  Coming right down there.

• 1:17:51Chris Ryan?

  Blitzing them with three shooters.

• 1:17:53Sean Fennessey?

  Um, I, how responsible do, I like to interview you guys about your obsession with Michael Mann. How responsible do you feel for the fleet of young men who are showing up at these repertory screenings of Michael Mann movies like?

• 1:18:08Bill Simmons?

  Is that happening?

• 1:18:08Sean Fennessey?

  Wearing heat t-shirts and like black hats. It's like, it's the new version of the seven thing that you were talking about, you know, where it's like this guy might murder you, but it's the opposite. It's like this guy might be your best friend who you rob a banquet.

• 1:18:19Bill Simmons?

  These people sound great.

• 1:18:20Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:20Bill Simmons?

  Where are they?

• 1:18:21Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, they're, Jack Sanders will tell you, they're, they're, they're all over Los Angeles in the movie theaters. They're showing out. Yeah, they're like, black hat is screening tonight, I'll be there, I'll pay $80 for a ticket.

• 1:18:31Bill Simmons?

  You know, if we could say we played a small part.

• 1:18:34Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:34Bill Simmons?

  Then that's, that's all you could do.

• 1:18:36Chris Ryan?

  If there's any god in this world, it's between a bunch of men sharing heat with each other.

• 1:18:44Bill Simmons?

  One thing I was thinking was, I think I could do an entire Heat nitpick pod and not do any of the other categories.

• 1:18:51Chris Ryan?

  I could do that.

• 1:18:52Bill Simmons?

  Cause I've seen it too many times now. I can nitpick literally every scene in the movie. Like the director's commentary, I could just nitpick. And by the way, this is like one of my five favorite movies, but there's, I've just seen it too many times.

• 1:19:02Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Can I pitch an idea?

• 1:19:03Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:04Sean Fennessey?

  Nitpick? You guys, for the Ringer Movies YouTube channel, remake Before Sunrise, but it's just you walking around L.A.

• 1:19:12Chris Ryan?

  Downtown L.A.

• 1:19:12Sean Fennessey?

  Doing a Heat pod?

• 1:19:14Bill Simmons?

  I thought, I thought you were gonna say, do our version of Michael Mann's Before Sunrise. Is it how awkward his meeting dialogue is?

• 1:19:22Sean Fennessey?

  A book about medals?

• 1:19:23Bill Simmons?

  Why are you so interested in me getting off this train, lady?

• 1:19:25Chris Ryan?

  With hockey masks and suits with open shirt collars?

• 1:19:32Bill Simmons?

  Michael Mann trying to write though, would you like to go to the cafe car with me part would have been amazing.

• 1:19:38Chris Ryan?

  I mean, his version of this is like collateral, basically.

• 1:19:40Sean Fennessey?

  And yet Jesse reading Klaus Kinski's memoir is some real Macaulay shit.

• 1:19:47Bill Simmons?

  Half ass center of research, some good stuff. So, oh yeah, you mentioned those books. She's reading, uh, I'm gonna mangle the names.

• 1:19:56Sean Fennessey?

  Is it George Batil?

• 1:19:58Bill Simmons?

  George Batil, Batia, Batil?

• 1:20:01Sean Fennessey?

  I don't know. I'm not, I'm not an expert.

• 1:20:02Bill Simmons?

  Ethan Hawke is reading All I Need Is Love by Klaus Kinski.

• 1:20:05Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. I feel like that's a book he picked up in a hostel somewhere.

• 1:20:10Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:20:11Chris Ryan?

  Cause he looks at, he's like, I don't know.

• 1:20:13Bill Simmons?

  So this is sad, and I never knew this until I did the research, even though this is a movie I've seen many times. The movie was inspired by a lady named Amy Lehrhaupt. Linklater met her in a toy shop in Philadelphia in 1989, and they walked around the city together, conversing deep into the night. And then she died of a motorcycle accident for the, before sunrise. But apparently, one of the reasons he made the movie was he was hoping she would see it and hunt him down, because this was the 90s. And if, once you lost connection with somebody, that was it. You couldn't find them. Um, but he didn't know she died for a while after that.

• 1:20:46Sean Fennessey?

  I think it was 2010 when he found out.

• 1:20:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:49Sean Fennessey?

  And a friend of a friend reached out and sent him a letter. Yeah. There's an episode of Fresh Air that features the three of them, Delpy and Hawk and Linklater, and he tells the story. And I remember the day that that episode aired, cause my wife listened to it and was just in a mess and was like, you have to listen to this immediately, cause it's so heartbreaking.

• 1:21:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. So the cemetery they visit, it's called the cemetery of the nameless and simmering. The people buried have found anonymity in death.

• 1:21:17Chris Ryan?

  Um, yeah.

• 1:21:18Bill Simmons?

  Apparently a famous place. First script for Before Sunrise, do you know where it was set? This kind of blew my mind because this is one of the most boring places I've been.

• 1:21:28Chris Ryan?

  I believe it was San Antonio.

• 1:21:29Bill Simmons?

  San Antonio.

• 1:21:30Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Riverwalk, baby.

• 1:21:32Bill Simmons?

  It took place in San Antonio and the guy was a rabid film fanatic who talked all the time about film. Uh, better or worse movie?

• 1:21:41Chris Ryan?

  Ninety-five Spurs when the Spurs were.

• 1:21:44Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's when Rodman kind of submarine.

• 1:21:46Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:21:47Bill Simmons?

  The Spurs in ninety-five and he took his shoes off during the game.

• 1:21:50Chris Ryan?

  That's right.

• 1:21:50Bill Simmons?

  Torturing David Robinson.

• 1:21:52Chris Ryan?

  Fun.

• 1:21:53Bill Simmons?

  That could have been a scene.

• 1:21:55Chris Ryan?

  Robin, what's up with him?

• 1:21:58Bill Simmons?

  The, uh, apparently the last shot of the movie, they had to time it with the train. And they like rehearsed it and it had to be perfect. And if they fucked it up, then they would have had to come back the next day and do it. And they rehearsed it and it worked. And then, uh, Kath Blum got like a little resurgence from the movie, ended up releasing more albums.

• 1:22:19Chris Ryan?

  Oh, that's cool.

• 1:22:20Bill Simmons?

  Got a little bump. Uh, you mentioned James Joyce's Ulysses. Where'd you stand on this book CR?

• 1:22:25Chris Ryan?

  Uh.

• 1:22:26Bill Simmons?

  Your English major face.

• 1:22:26Chris Ryan?

  We were just talking about this. I had, uh, when I went overseas myself for my semester abroad, I, I took Ulysses at an Irish university. So it was probably the ideal circumstances. It's, it's an incredible novel.

• 1:22:37Bill Simmons?

  It's a lot of parallels. Both stories are on June sixteenth. Both, both involve a journey taking place around a single city. Jesse says his real name is James Joyce's first name. Um, Jesse spends a lot of time wandering around the cities of Europe instead of going back home.

• 1:22:56Chris Ryan?

  Kath Blum, Molly Blum.

• 1:22:57Bill Simmons?

  They visit a graveyard. June sixteenth was the day James Joyce met his life partner, Nora Barnacle. Great name. Yeah. Link later.

• 1:23:08Chris Ryan?

  Joyce, he's a.

• 1:23:09Bill Simmons?

  Getting weird.

• 1:23:10Chris Ryan?

  He's an artist. Yeah.

• 1:23:11Bill Simmons?

  Apex Mountain, Ethan Hawke.

• 1:23:17Chris Ryan?

  Uh, I

• 1:23:21Chris Ryan?

  I think he

• 1:23:22Bill Simmons?

  You can talk me into it.

• 1:23:23Chris Ryan?

  Apex and a reapex and I think apex is Reality bites and then reapex is Training Day.

• 1:23:29Bill Simmons?

  I think it's Training Day, but I I could be talked into this movie. But the only thing is this movie didn't do that well and it kind of

• 1:23:36Chris Ryan?

  He's been in movies since he was like

• 1:23:37Bill Simmons?

  It was a slow burn. This had a big cable run and I think a lot of people loved it, but it took a couple of years to really

• 1:23:44Chris Ryan?

  What are you, what are you thinking?

• 1:23:46Sean Fennessey?

  I don't know. I mean, I think he had a third wave. In boyhood. Well, the that's, I mean, it's connected, right? Like the

• 1:23:54Bill Simmons?

  The boyhood and the purge.

• 1:23:55Sean Fennessey?

  Sinister boyhood period of his career. The other thing that happened is he got really good at doing press. Really good.

• 1:24:03Bill Simmons?

  One of the best podcast guests ever.

• 1:24:05Sean Fennessey?

  Unbelievable storyteller. He's just a great talker. And I think he like kind of Cemented his place in movie history in some ways with that third wave of success. Um, and so I don't know. It's like this movie wasn't a huge hit. Training Day is a huge hit, but it's a huge hit because of Denzel.

• 1:24:24Bill Simmons?

  Uh huh.

• 1:24:24Sean Fennessey?

  And he did a lot in that. You know, that the Blumhouse plus I keep doing Linklater movie stretch.

• 1:24:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:30Sean Fennessey?

  That I think confirmed him in a way. I don't know. Maybe that might have been his apex. I mean, Sinister and the Purge made a lot of money.

• 1:24:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's probably the answer. Julie Delpy, I would say Before Sunset.

• 1:24:43Bill Simmons?

  Your rail trains?

• 1:24:47Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 1:24:48Bill Simmons?

  Austrian palm readers?

• 1:24:49Chris Ryan?

  Absolutely.

• 1:24:50Sean Fennessey?

  Definitely, yeah.

• 1:24:51Bill Simmons?

  Littering? Great littering in this movie. They just leave the wine glasses in the bottle, just in the park.

• 1:24:55Sean Fennessey?

  That's true. That's a good point.

• 1:24:57Bill Simmons?

  Vienna, probably the Billy Joel song.

• 1:24:59Chris Ryan?

  Uh, yeah, there's also, there's a couple of other cultural touchstones there, but nothing like the Billy Joel song.

• 1:25:05Sean Fennessey?

  I think the third man, which is also set in Vienna would be a good one.

• 1:25:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, Billy Joel, that song's multi generational.

• 1:25:10Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. It's kind of, kind of the cath blooms come here of the late stage Billy Joel.

• 1:25:15Bill Simmons?

  Billy Joel, like people love that.

• 1:25:16Chris Ryan?

  What about, uh, is this apex mountain, mountain for first dates?

• 1:25:22Chris Ryan?

  Just the greatest first date in America.

• 1:25:24Bill Simmons?

  So it's this or Neil and Edie in the finals.

• 1:25:27Chris Ryan?

  That's right.

• 1:25:29Chris Ryan?

  Neil and Edie.

• 1:25:30Bill Simmons?

  Starting out at a diner, talking about a book about medals, and then they end up in some awesome place of the view.

• 1:25:36Chris Ryan?

  And then he takes off in the morning.

• 1:25:37Bill Simmons?

  And he takes off in the morning.

• 1:25:39Sean Fennessey?

  I don't think I'm well suited to be the adjudicator of best first dates.

• 1:25:43Bill Simmons?

  This would have been, I wish we had thought about this more. We should have researched this more.

• 1:25:46Chris Ryan?

  Best first date is actually Colin Farrell and Gong Li in Miami Vice. Go to his movie.

• 1:25:53Bill Simmons?

  That is the fucking answer.

• 1:25:56Chris Ryan?

  Top that.

• 1:25:57Bill Simmons?

  You like the libido?

• 1:25:58Sean Fennessey?

  I can't.

• 1:25:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's good.

• 1:26:03Chris Ryan?

  On another hand here, is this Apex Mountain for date movies?

• 1:26:11Sean Fennessey?

  If your, if your relationship is going well, it's a great movie. If it's not going well, it's a confrontation.

• 1:26:18Bill Simmons?

  It's a great point. If you see this, if you saw this movie in 95 and you weren't really getting along with whoever you're dating, you would leave the movie side eyeing them and be like, I don't feel this way.

• 1:26:28Sean Fennessey?

  You would say, why am I wasting my time when there could be a Jesse or a Celine out there for me?

• 1:26:34Bill Simmons?

  That's like my gotta see about a girl story.

• 1:26:35Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, from Goodwill.

• 1:26:40Bill Simmons?

  Apex Mountain for Gen X. I, I think it's a year earlier. I think 94 was the peak. 95 were in the last run that's.

• 1:26:49Chris Ryan?

  Well, this is nine, this is 95 is kicking and screaming in this, right?

• 1:26:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but I think 94 is fresher cooler.

• 1:26:59Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:26:59Bill Simmons?

  We got, we got, uh, reality bites a year. It's, I think it's 93 or 94. The music was better in 93, 94.

• 1:27:07Sean Fennessey?

  Are we sure it's not the election of Barack Obama?

• 1:27:09Bill Simmons?

  For Gen X.

• 1:27:10Chris Ryan?

  Wow.

• 1:27:13Bill Simmons?

  Oh, that's interesting.

• 1:27:14Sean Fennessey?

  Still the only Gen X president we've had.

• 1:27:18Sean Fennessey?

  Probably will be the only one.

• 1:27:21Bill Simmons?

  Listing booths? Apex Mountain?

• 1:27:26Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, no, it's clearly Philip Seymour Hoffman in The Talented Mr. Ripley, vibing out to the jazz.

• 1:27:34Bill Simmons?

  I would go for this. Kath Blum, definitely. Anonymous cemetery is no question. Okay, Cruise or Hanks? Let's go.

• 1:27:41Chris Ryan?

  I got Hanks.

• 1:27:43Bill Simmons?

  Oh, really?

• 1:27:44Sean Fennessey?

  No.

• 1:27:45Bill Simmons?

  Oh, I think Cruise is clearly the answer.

• 1:27:47Sean Fennessey?

  Gotta be Cruise.

• 1:27:48Chris Ryan?

  You don't think Hanks?

• 1:27:49Sean Fennessey?

  Cruise doing his motor mouth routine.

• 1:27:50Bill Simmons?

  Cruise would be amazing. Cruise trying to do this movie would be mesmerizing.

• 1:27:54Chris Ryan?

  He's wearing a skin suit. If he's like, they're going to like a time machine. Okay. You know, like, like.

• 1:27:59Bill Simmons?

  Sign me up.

• 1:28:00Sean Fennessey?

  A lot of his parts are like this. A lot of his movies are like this.

• 1:28:03Bill Simmons?

  Honestly, he's doing, there's multiple scenes in Cocktail like this.

• 1:28:07Sean Fennessey?

  Yes. A lot of his eighties movies.

• 1:28:09Chris Ryan?

  I'm very surprised that I'm on an island.

• 1:28:10Bill Simmons?

  I'm going this far. This is the movie Cruise should have made. He's missing this from his IMDb, Young Man IMDb, ten year stretch. I wish he made a movie like this.

• 1:28:19Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. I mean, I guess the closest he gets is Jerry Maguire, right?

• 1:28:22Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Another fast talking, emotional, romantic.

• 1:28:25Bill Simmons?

  Huge movie. It's like, let's spend 24 hours with Cruise trying to win a girl over. He never did it. De Niro tried to do it once with that Meryl Streep movie and it was a disaster. Some people just don't have it in them.

• 1:28:36Sean Fennessey?

  Is that the one?

• 1:28:36Bill Simmons?

  No, that was Pacino.

• 1:28:38Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:28:38Bill Simmons?

  What was the one? It was called Falling in Love, I think.

• 1:28:40Sean Fennessey?

  Stanley and Iris? Is that what you're thinking of?

• 1:28:43Bill Simmons?

  No, De Niro did a movie called Falling in Love.

• 1:28:45Chris Ryan?

  Like about two people getting sick or something? Or no?

• 1:28:47Bill Simmons?

  That was a different one. No, this was in the eighties.

• 1:28:49Sean Fennessey?

  I haven't seen that.

• 1:28:50Bill Simmons?

  It was De Niro and Meryl Streep and it was positioned as these two huge actors are finally together and it just was like, they had no chemistry and that's why you didn't remember it.

• 1:29:01Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, Stanley and Iris was De Niro and Jane Fonda.

• 1:29:03Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. I so we trumped CR Cruz wins two to one.

• 1:29:10Chris Ryan?

  You guys dunked on me. Yeah.

• 1:29:11Sean Fennessey?

  That's I got you on the cruise side for once. That's great.

• 1:29:14Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, you guys are usually on the opposite, aren't you?

• 1:29:16Bill Simmons?

  Young Hanks.

• 1:29:17Sean Fennessey?

  Well, we're in a, we're in a death war till we die about who is superior.

• 1:29:20Bill Simmons?

  What do you mean? I love Cruz the most.

• 1:29:22Sean Fennessey?

  What?

• 1:29:23Bill Simmons?

  About I fucking have defended Cocktail multiple times in my life.

• 1:29:27Chris Ryan?

  Someone just had a criteria orgasm.

• 1:29:28Bill Simmons?

  Talking about I love Cruz.

• 1:29:31Sean Fennessey?

  Um, okay, okay.

• 1:29:32Bill Simmons?

  But I think if, if you're gonna say nineteen eighty-four range Tom Hanks in this movie.

• 1:29:39Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:29:40Bill Simmons?

  I think he would have been really good. I just personally, I think Cruz would have been hilarious in Vienna. Just like they would have had to move work in some scene where he did something athletic, like he played hacky sack with somebody.

• 1:29:51Sean Fennessey?

  I think, I think that Jesse's neuroses are a critical part of this. And I don't think of Tom Hanks as a particularly neurotic actor.

• 1:30:00Bill Simmons?

  It's a good point.

• 1:30:01Sean Fennessey?

  Um, whereas Tom Cruise, despite matinee idol good looks and the fame and success. There's something kind of nervy and weird about him.

• 1:30:09Bill Simmons?

  Cocktail.

• 1:30:10Chris Ryan?

  I just, I just think he'd be trying to like do the magnetic smile thing the whole time. Like, can you imagine Cruz being like, like he'd be like.

• 1:30:19Sean Fennessey?

  I don't know why you're digging a ditch for Cruz.

• 1:30:22Bill Simmons?

  No, he would have needed a bad hairdo to try to make it seem less realistic.

• 1:30:26Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:27Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:27Bill Simmons?

  I think he could pull someone off.

• 1:30:28Sean Fennessey?

  I think one of the reasons why it shouldn't be Hanks is because this movie is kind of a rejection of Tom Hanks movies like this.

• 1:30:34Bill Simmons?

  Like Sleepless in Seattle.

• 1:30:35Sean Fennessey?

  Seattle, like, you know, um, Soon to Be When You've Got Mail.

• 1:30:39Bill Simmons?

  New category, Scorsese or Spielberg?

• 1:30:42Chris Ryan?

  I'm gonna go Scorsese.

• 1:30:43Bill Simmons?

  Test drive.

• 1:30:44Sean Fennessey?

  Scorsese.

• 1:30:45Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, cuz he could, he showed that he can do one long night with after hours.

• 1:30:49Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, he, is he a romantic? Is Scorsese a romantic? Isn't it an interesting question?

• 1:30:53Bill Simmons?

  I think he's spiritual. He has some spiritualism in this movie.

• 1:30:56Sean Fennessey?

  That's true. And there is. The history of the soul. I would say Spielberg. There's the sentimentality, the.

• 1:31:02Bill Simmons?

  So is the question, who made more sense or which version? Maybe this category is which movie would you rather have wanted to see Scorsese or Spielberg? Cuz I think I'd rather see Scorsese's Before Sunrise. Over Spielberg's. I know what I'm gonna get with.

• 1:31:17Chris Ryan?

  I know that they'd be smoking in that version.

• 1:31:19Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, but then the poet would have gotten shot and fallen into the river.

• 1:31:22Bill Simmons?

  That sounds amazing. There would have been a robbery.

• 1:31:27Sean Fennessey?

  I, this is a tough category for genuinely great films made by serious artists. Cause you're like, well, this is one of the quintessential Linklater movies, maybe the quintessential Linklater movies. It's a little hard to be like, it's a lot easier when it's like.

• 1:31:40Bill Simmons?

  Maybe this category doesn't work.

• 1:31:41Sean Fennessey?

  You know?

• 1:31:42Chris Ryan?

  Dead to the extreme, directed by Steven Spielberg.

• 1:31:46Bill Simmons?

  This category works. Another new one. What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played?

• 1:31:51Chris Ryan?

  The poet.

• 1:31:52Bill Simmons?

  Oh, I had the poet.

• 1:31:53Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:54Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, I like that.

• 1:31:55Bill Simmons?

  But I, I will say, I did test drive in my head him as Jesse in the mid nineties.

• 1:32:00Chris Ryan?

  The thing is that I think everybody in their mid nineties was like, I'm Jesse, but we probably all looked like Philip Seymour Hoffman.

• 1:32:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:07Chris Ryan?

  You know what I mean? Like.

• 1:32:09Bill Simmons?

  But the poet, he would have been, I think that's the answer.

• 1:32:11Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:12Sean Fennessey?

  That's good.

• 1:32:12Chris Ryan?

  Or the, or the actor, the, the Cal actor.

• 1:32:15Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, that would have been good too.

• 1:32:17Bill Simmons?

  The Ed Norton reverse dunk award for did this movie need a random sports scene?

• 1:32:21Sean Fennessey?

  And we've already come up with like five. I think racing to the TV to see Houston Knicks would have been a great one.

• 1:32:27Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:27Sean Fennessey?

  And then stumbling upon the Bronco.

• 1:32:29Bill Simmons?

  Can I, can I, can we talk about a possible hacky sack scene where they're in a park?

• 1:32:34Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:32:35Bill Simmons?

  Height of hacky sack.

• 1:32:36Chris Ryan?

  Where Jesse gets distracted by the sack.

• 1:32:38Bill Simmons?

  Jesse's like, I used to be really good at this. And then he does some hacky sack.

• 1:32:41Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:41Sean Fennessey?

  You play hacky sack?

• 1:32:43Bill Simmons?

  I never liked it. I never liked anyone who did it.

• 1:32:45Chris Ryan?

  I wonder if there's an extended cut or a deleted scene where like Jesse sees a bunch of Austrian guys playing soccer in, in the park. And he's just like, this is why football will never catch on in America. Yeah. Here's my thing.

• 1:32:57Sean Fennessey?

  That would work.

• 1:33:01Bill Simmons?

  This, uh, next category is blind call to Rosillo. He might not answer.

• 1:33:05Sean Fennessey?

  He's not gonna pick up, right?

• 1:33:06Bill Simmons?

  We'll see. It depends if he's doing stuff. So this new category, if he's gonna call Rosillo and see if he's seen the movie and put him on speaker.

• 1:33:17Bill Simmons?

  Can you hear that? Welcome to Verizon. No. Oh, for one. Man.

• 1:33:24Sean Fennessey?

  Are you sure he doesn't have you straight to voicemail in his phone?

• 1:33:26Bill Simmons?

  No, I talked to him yesterday.

• 1:33:27Chris Ryan?

  He's probably like on hour two with Bruce Feldman.

• 1:33:30Bill Simmons?

  He's in Vienna.

• 1:33:31Chris Ryan?

  He's right in now, he's in Vienna.

• 1:33:32Sean Fennessey?

  He's in Vienna, he's on a train reading Kloskinski's memoir.

• 1:33:35Bill Simmons?

  Pick a Nits. Jesse wearing a leather jacket in Vienna in mid-June.

• 1:33:39Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:40Bill Simmons?

  I was, it's gotta be like ninety-eight.

• 1:33:41Chris Ryan?

  Say an unanswerable question is, what are we doing with body odor? There's no shower, right?

• 1:33:47Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah. It's Ethan Hawke.

• 1:33:49Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, they've been drinking coffee, not smoking, I guess, but walking around.

• 1:33:53Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, this raises an interesting question. In the nineties, you were significantly there, you were less there, but still there. Were we just a little bit more comfortable with the human musk? Were we less moisturized?

• 1:34:08Bill Simmons?

  I don't know, I felt like that was a big deodorant frenzy in the nineties.

• 1:34:11Chris Ryan?

  That was like, you get all sorts of different flavors.

• 1:34:14Bill Simmons?

  Old Spice, right?

• 1:34:15Sean Fennessey?

  Cause like, think about what a man in like nineteen fifty-seven smelled like at the end of the day.

• 1:34:18Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, but everybody smelled that way.

• 1:34:20Sean Fennessey?

  That's, that's my point. That's my point is that would have been okay if he was just, you know, riding the Urail.

• 1:34:25Bill Simmons?

  I mean, she was French.

• 1:34:26Sean Fennessey?

  Hostile sleeping.

• 1:34:27Bill Simmons?

  And she's, the French are used to that.

• 1:34:29Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, that's what I'm saying. There's a, there's an odor thing that might have been a non-issue.

• 1:34:34Bill Simmons?

  He never gets the bartender's address, which we covered. I have one more big nitpick, but do you guys have any?

• 1:34:39Chris Ryan?

  Uh, just that these guys suck at pinball.

• 1:34:42Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, my God, Ethan Hawke is so bad.

• 1:34:43Chris Ryan?

  I know, they're just like.

• 1:34:44Bill Simmons?

  He's never played.

• 1:34:45Chris Ryan?

  It would be really funny if he was just like, can you shut the fuck up? I'm trying to play.

• 1:34:50Sean Fennessey?

  He's, when he's explaining what love is, he is atrocious.

• 1:34:53Bill Simmons?

  You know, we had a, didn't we have like a Tom Cruise sports award?

• 1:35:00Chris Ryan?

  I get the point.

• 1:35:00Bill Simmons?

  Ethan Hawke not being able to play pinball.

• 1:35:02Chris Ryan?

  They're distracted by each other and they're just kinda like, what can we do here?

• 1:35:06Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, well, Hollywood stole Ethan's youth, so he never really got to play with the childish things.

• 1:35:10Bill Simmons?

  Fair. So the Playboy Playmate of the Month in July seventy-eight was in Crystal.

• 1:35:14Sean Fennessey?

  Yep.

• 1:35:15Bill Simmons?

  It was Karen Morton, who has the distinction of being the Playmate with the smallest breasts ever out of the Playmate. She was the thirty-two B. I did a deep dive on her.

• 1:35:24Sean Fennessey?

  I'll bet you did.

• 1:35:25Bill Simmons?

  She played the vestal virgin in the comedy feature, History of the World Part One.

• 1:35:31Bill Simmons?

  She played Jenny in the music video for 8675309 Jenny by Tommy Two Tone.

• 1:35:37Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:35:38Sean Fennessey?

  Wow.

• 1:35:39Bill Simmons?

  That's who the actual-

• 1:35:40Sean Fennessey?

  Her legacy is profound.

• 1:35:41Bill Simmons?

  This is, this is-

• 1:35:43Chris Ryan?

  Holy shit, that's a triple crown right there.

• 1:35:45Bill Simmons?

  This is the best podcast out there, cuz I just gave you a July 1978 Playmate deep dive.

• 1:35:49Chris Ryan?

  But you didn't find out like why?

• 1:35:51Bill Simmons?

  Why they screwed it up?

• 1:35:52Chris Ryan?

  They changed the name. Yeah, okay.

• 1:35:53Bill Simmons?

  I think they screwed it up cuz they didn't know the internet was coming or podcasts.

• 1:35:56Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 1:35:56Bill Simmons?

  And that we would be like deciphering who actually was the Playmate.

• 1:35:59Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm. Right now, you've got many men at home furiously Googling this person's name.

• 1:36:04Bill Simmons?

  Karen Morton. Sequel, prequel, prestige to be all black cast or untouchable. Two sequels, so we know how that turned out. All right, tweet category. Buckle up. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson, Nell, Byron Mayo, Barney Cousins, Tony Romo, Harley Mays, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Long Legs, or Wilford Brimley and the Firm?

• 1:36:32Chris Ryan?

  Because we've tweaked the category, I, uh, I do have a request that you do Long Legs reading the, reading the fortunes, reading the palm reader.

• 1:36:43Chris Ryan?

  Jesse!

• 1:36:49Chris Ryan?

  You seem to be moving around a lot! But if, uh-

• 1:36:53Bill Simmons?

  Third adventurer?

• 1:36:55Chris Ryan?

  If Wilford Brimley from the Firm was talking about Jesse's trip to Spain, well, here's our Jesse, who has saved up all his money from working as a barista in a college town, and he goes all the way to Spain to reunite with his long-distance girlfriend. And what does he find instead? Finds heartache in the form of a fabulous matador named Gonzalo.

• 1:37:21Bill Simmons?

  I asked, there's a Tony Romo case too.

• 1:37:23Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:23Bill Simmons?

  For the Ferris wheel.

• 1:37:25Chris Ryan?

  She's begging to be played in one, Jim. She just wants one kiss, Jim. He's just gotta do it right now, Jim. Jesse's gotta do it, Jim.

• 1:37:33Sean Fennessey?

  I, I, I don't know if I could actually do this, but Daniel Plainview as the poet reading the poem?

• 1:37:40Bill Simmons?

  Oh, no.

• 1:37:43Sean Fennessey?

  I'm scared. It's really hard.

• 1:37:44Chris Ryan?

  Give him the poem. He's gotta see the poem. Look up the poem.

• 1:37:47Sean Fennessey?

  I'm looking at it. I mean, you know, it's-

• 1:37:56Bill Simmons?

  Skip it, we're all friends here.

• 1:37:58Sean Fennessey?

  Daydream delusion, limousine eyelash, oh baby with your pretty face. Drop a tear in my wine glass, look at those big eyes. See what you mean to me, sweet cakes and milkshakes.

• 1:38:12Bill Simmons?

  Milkshakes!

• 1:38:13Sean Fennessey?

  I am a diligent.

• 1:38:15Bill Simmons?

  Yes, sweet cakes and milkshakes!

• 1:38:18Sean Fennessey?

  I drink your milkshake!

• 1:38:23Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, that's all I got. Thanks.

• 1:38:24Bill Simmons?

  Should we add Tom Brady to this?

• 1:38:28Chris Ryan?

  What is Tom Brady's signature aside from saying KB?

• 1:38:31Bill Simmons?

  Tom Brady would be like, "That day went great."

• 1:38:34Chris Ryan?

  Jesse was so poised back there.

• 1:38:36Sean Fennessey?

  Seems to be a real connection here, KB.

• 1:38:38Bill Simmons?

  I feel like they're gonna, they're gonna maybe connect down the road, KB.

• 1:38:43Sean Fennessey?

  That's why it's really important to have a strong offensive line, KB.

• 1:38:47Bill Simmons?

  Right there, he was able to get her off the train, KB, and that was huge. That was huge for what's gonna happen on the rest of the stage.

• 1:38:54Chris Ryan?

  I was just looking for love in this world, KB, and he there found it.

• 1:38:58Bill Simmons?

  Just wanna ask her who gets it. Probably Linklater, right?

• 1:39:03Chris Ryan?

  For script or for direction?

• 1:39:07Sean Fennessey?

  Well, if it's script, then they share it.

• 1:39:09Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:10Sean Fennessey?

  And along with Kim Cazan.

• 1:39:12Chris Ryan?

  Which I think would be pretty cool.

• 1:39:14Sean Fennessey?

  These, the, the next two movies were both nominated for best screenplay.

• 1:39:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Probably an answerable question. See, I already covered the, uh, Jesse's 24 hour idea. And then, for this movie only, the question was, did they have sex? We find out the answer in a later movie.

• 1:39:30Chris Ryan?

  I got another unanswerable, though.

• 1:39:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:33Chris Ryan?

  How many people threw emotional hail marys on first dates because of this movie? Like, how many guys out there do you think, like, did insane bits, or were like, we're in a time machine, or we're stardust, or tried to come up with something like really overly romantic and some girl was like, "It's okay." Like.

• 1:39:54Bill Simmons?

  It's this fucking guy that last night.

• 1:39:55Chris Ryan?

  We're not in Vienna, we're in Syracuse.

• 1:40:00Chris Ryan?

  We're fucking Benigans.

• 1:40:02Bill Simmons?

  Did you ever try to Were soft words at Dennison? Yeah.

• 1:40:05Sean Fennessey?

  You never tried to pull any of this material out for your own purposes?

• 1:40:08Chris Ryan?

  Oh, I did.

• 1:40:08Bill Simmons?

  I don't know.

• 1:40:08Sean Fennessey?

  You did?

• 1:40:09Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah. I feel like I made like grand gestures when I was younger like this.

• 1:40:14Sean Fennessey?

  Like?

• 1:40:15Chris Ryan?

  Like, like.

• 1:40:16Sean Fennessey?

  I'll meet you back here in six months?

• 1:40:18Chris Ryan?

  No, but like, that kind of like, uh, just kind of going for broke-ness of it was just like a little bit more common, I think.

• 1:40:28Bill Simmons?

  This isn't a nitpick, and it might be an unanswerable, but it's something. It's the one thing I felt like wasn't authentic about his character, but it's all, it's based on what happens in the next movie.

• 1:40:38Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:40:39Bill Simmons?

  Where he writes a book.

• 1:40:40Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:40:41Bill Simmons?

  Which tells me that if he wrote a whole book nine years later, then he would have been writing at this age, right? You're writing short stories, you're writing all this stuff. And it feels like with, cause he's just throwing, he's running all the plays he can run.

• 1:40:56Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. He does have a writer's mind in the movie, though.

• 1:40:58Bill Simmons?

  He does.

• 1:40:58Sean Fennessey?

  You can tell that he-

• 1:40:59Bill Simmons?

  But I'm saying at some point, I think he shows her something he wrote. I think he, you play that move at some point during the night. Can I show you? Do you want to read this one thing I wrote? So he's trying to-

• 1:41:08Chris Ryan?

  That's why he's mad at the poet. He's like, there's no way you could have come up with that on the spot.

• 1:41:12Sean Fennessey?

  Well, he's always protecting himself, like even when he reads the Auden poem, which he obviously loves, he needs to do it. Is it in the Dylan Thomas voice that he does it in? You know, cause he like can't totally turn himself over and become vulnerable to her.

• 1:41:26Bill Simmons?

  I just think he has writing and I, and I think, I don't know, I just think he would have, would have tried it.

• 1:41:31Sean Fennessey?

  Can I ask you, can I ask you a question?

• 1:41:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:33Sean Fennessey?

  I was, I thought about this a lot, watching this movie. So you, um, really don't like the, the English class guy? You know, the guy who's like, I'm looking for the metaphorical meaning and all these things.

• 1:41:47Bill Simmons?

  I did like them, but I didn't like them.

• 1:41:48Sean Fennessey?

  So-

• 1:41:49Bill Simmons?

  I thought they were fun to argue with in college.

• 1:41:50Sean Fennessey?

  This is what I want to talk about because, you know, you employ some at The Ringer and you're very drawn to movies that feature these characters.

• 1:41:58Bill Simmons?

  So maybe I just didn't want to admit what was lurking deep inside me?

• 1:42:01Sean Fennessey?

  Well, that, I, I'm just, I'm just asking.

• 1:42:04Chris Ryan?

  It's fair. It's never too late to crack open Ulysses, Bill.

• 1:42:08Sean Fennessey?

  It is for me, because my brain is leaking out of my ears.

• 1:42:10Bill Simmons?

  An iPad in big print?

• 1:42:11Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, seriously. Do they have a version of it that is read by Robert De Niro as Neil McCallie?

• 1:42:18Bill Simmons?

  The Coach Finstock Award for Best Life Lesson.

• 1:42:23Bill Simmons?

  Connecting with someone for 24 hours is better than never connecting with anyone.

• 1:42:27Chris Ryan?

  I think human connection being the, the real religion of the world, something like that.

• 1:42:31Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:32Bill Simmons?

  What piece of memorabilia would you want? Or not want from this movie?

• 1:42:37Chris Ryan?

  I would want the poem.

• 1:42:39Sean Fennessey?

  Oh.

• 1:42:39Bill Simmons?

  Oh, the poem that the guy wrote. That's a good one. That's, that's a, I had the actual Kath Blum album that he had.

• 1:42:45Chris Ryan?

  That's good.

• 1:42:45Sean Fennessey?

  That's good too. I, I would not want that turtleneck. That's, I could not pull that off. That red, that maroon turtleneck he's wearing at the beginning of the movie.

• 1:42:53Chris Ryan?

  He gets rid of it.

• 1:42:54Sean Fennessey?

  He takes it off at some point. He was wearing like a T-shirt and, and when they're at the amusement park. But, uh, boy, that would be a tough look for me.

• 1:43:02Bill Simmons?

  But the wine bottle is an interesting one.

• 1:43:04Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:43:05Bill Simmons?

  The poem, I think is the right answer. Best double feature choice before Sunset.

• 1:43:11Bill Simmons?

  And then, uh,

• 1:43:14Bill Simmons?

  probably the toughest of all these, who won the movie?

• 1:43:22Sean Fennessey?

  I think it's Linklater.

• 1:43:22Chris Ryan?

  I, I, I thought it was Hawk.

• 1:43:26Bill Simmons?

  I had Hawk, but I don't know if I'm right because I think he needs this for his kind of big picture thing and Linklater was doing great anyway, but I also think it might be, it probably is Linklater.

• 1:43:37Chris Ryan?

  It's probably Linklater because if Hawk doesn't make this movie, he still has reality bites.

• 1:43:41Bill Simmons?

  Linklater really needs this. Cause then it leads to the trilogy and.

• 1:43:46Sean Fennessey?

  I also think,

• 1:43:49Sean Fennessey?

  you know, you mentioned their collaboration and whether that's great. Like there's a couple of other interesting examples of this. De Niro and Scorsese, George Roy Hill and Paul Newman. Like there's some people who you're like, when these two guys get together, something special is going to happen. But Linklater needed to find Hawk for this movie. And when they're together, even if the movie isn't a success, there's something alchemical that is really working and I don't know, just, and also it just seems like it. I don't know. What is his signature movie now? Linklater? What is the one, is it Still Dazed and Confused? Is it, is it?

• 1:44:24Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:24Sean Fennessey?

  Is it Boyhood? Is it School of Rock? Is it? Sunrise Sunset?

• 1:44:29Bill Simmons?

  I would argue it's Sunset.

• 1:44:31Chris Ryan?

  I think it's the trilogy.

• 1:44:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, or the trilogy as a whole.

• 1:44:34Chris Ryan?

  Cause it's both.

• 1:44:35Sean Fennessey?

  Man.

• 1:44:36Chris Ryan?

  So crowd pleasing, but also so formally inventive and so breathtaking in its scope.

• 1:44:41Sean Fennessey?

  You know, he has two movies coming out this year.

• 1:44:45Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 1:44:46Sean Fennessey?

  One of which stars Ethan Hawke.

• 1:44:48Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:48Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, Blue Moon, which I think he plays Rogers from Rogers and Hammerstein.

• 1:44:55Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:56Bill Simmons?

  We didn't get to the big Kahuna Burger Award. We cut that one out, but it would have been the wine.

• 1:45:00Chris Ryan?

  I also just have drinking coffee at night.

• 1:45:02Bill Simmons?

  The Dan Campbell scale for holy shit, are they really going for this right now? I don't know if they had, I don't know if this movie had this one. We also, I was, I can't wait to do the Lena Dunham running the spawn ranch award for most jarring casting decision. It's gonna be great. We didn't have the Rossello blind uh thing. Um, the devil wears Prada award for is this movie actually perfect for what it tried to do? I think we could have given that one out.

• 1:45:26Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:27Sean Fennessey?

  Hmm.

• 1:45:27Bill Simmons?

  Um, when would I have died? Didn't get to do that one this time around.

• 1:45:31Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. When we probably the 40 year old version of myself is when we would, we didn't have lunch. Like they just don't eat in this movie.

• 1:45:38Sean Fennessey?

  It's a great point.

• 1:45:39Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:40Sean Fennessey?

  They eat anything?

• 1:45:41Chris Ryan?

  I think that it's implied that they eat at the cafe where everybody's like smoking and playing chess and.

• 1:45:47Bill Simmons?

  Or go to the ba- nobody goes to the bathroom in this movie.

• 1:45:49Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Yeah. There's some.

• 1:45:51Chris Ryan?

  I'm glad.

• 1:45:52Sean Fennessey?

  Semi semi subtle cutting.

• 1:45:53Bill Simmons?

  Drop the kids off at the pool.

• 1:45:55Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:56Bill Simmons?

  I'll be right back.

• 1:45:57Sean Fennessey?

  That's interesting. Eating in front of someone is also a little bit of a challenge when you're trying to seduce them.

• 1:46:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:02Sean Fennessey?

  A little, little hard to be elegant in that way.

• 1:46:04Chris Ryan?

  One other thing just to note is that he runs out of money with the poet, I think. So she's basically paying for the rest of the night.

• 1:46:10Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. What a dream girl.

• 1:46:12Sean Fennessey?

  He's, he's reaching out for coins there at the end with the poet.

• 1:46:15Bill Simmons?

  We don't get producer Craig's take this episode because he went to SNL this weekend and was somehow on camera in the monologue. So if you want to watch Timothy Chalamet's monologue, when he goes into the stands, there's producer Craig. He's like the new Zealick. Just Zealick.

• 1:46:30Sean Fennessey?

  Zealick. Yeah. He's kind of, kind of, kind of. Chalamet kind of giving some Ethan Hawke vibes in the Bob Dylan performance, you know?

• 1:46:38Bill Simmons?

  It's an interesting one because this would have been the perfect Chalamet movie if you're.

• 1:46:41Chris Ryan?

  Now it's too big.

• 1:46:42Bill Simmons?

  We're recasting this now. Chalamet is clearly.

• 1:46:44Sean Fennessey?

  Chalamet and Saoirse Ronan in Europe. That's the movie. I mean, they would be amazing.

• 1:46:49Chris Ryan?

  But it's, they're too big.

• 1:46:50Bill Simmons?

  But in Buck.

• 1:46:51Chris Ryan?

  He's too big now.

• 1:46:51Bill Simmons?

  Chalamet and Saoirse Ronan in Boston.

• 1:46:53Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, but in 2017 he broke down.

• 1:46:56Bill Simmons?

  It's been eight hours in Boston.

• 1:46:58Sean Fennessey?

  She's a nice Irish girl in Boston. Yeah.

• 1:47:00Bill Simmons?

  Before sunrise.

• 1:47:04Bill Simmons?

  After last call. That's it for the pod. We are back on the regular schedule. Please keep sending us emails on the [email protected]. Thanks to Jack and Kyle for producing. You can watch this on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel where you can see all stuff from the big pictures as well. And we'll be doing some bonus stuff, too.

• 1:47:22Sean Fennessey?

  Great.

• 1:47:23Bill Simmons?

  Tell me when you want me to do my, my own personal Oscar awards for you.

• 1:47:27Sean Fennessey?

  You know Wesley's gonna come on and do the big picks, which is all of the alternative Oscars. Do you want to come on and?

• 1:47:33Bill Simmons?

  No, I haven't seen all the movies. I don't belong on this.

• 1:47:36Sean Fennessey?

  No, but you would come on and say what you want to pick. Like, forget about what's nominated. You know, like, what, what, what Oscars should Long Legs get, in your opinion?

• 1:47:45Bill Simmons?

  Oh, those movies?

• 1:47:46Sean Fennessey?

  Just any movie that came out last year.

• 1:47:47Bill Simmons?

  Anything. Other than it was a really good movie.

• 1:47:52Bill Simmons?

  Thanks, guys.

• 1:48:10Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by Searchlight Pictures Wild Horse 9. John Malkovich and Sam Rockwell, I like those guys, star in the sharp-witted comedy thriller from Academy Award winner Martin McDonagh, writer-director of The Banshees of Inisherin and Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri, set in the 1970s, filmed on location on Easter Island. Malkovich and Rockwell play CIA agents Chris and Lee, who are caught in a dangerous game of secrets and survival. Also starring Steve Buscemi, another one of my guys, Parker Posey and Tom Waits. Wild Horse 9 is being hailed by critics as a revitalizing shot of pure entertainment and easily one of the best films of the year. Don't miss Wild Horse 9. Only in theaters Friday. Get tickets now.