‘Single White Female’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Mallory Rubin

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Mallory Rubin bunk up in a classy New York City apartment to revisit the 1992 thriller ‘Single White Female’ starring Bridget Fonda and Jennifer Jason Leigh. Producers: Craig Horlbeck, Chia Hao Tat, Eduard Ocampo, and Matt Pevic The Ringer is committed to responsible trading. Please visit https://fanduel.com/predicts to learn more about the resources and helpline. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Bill Simmons?

  The Rewatchables is brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network, where you can find House of R.

• 0:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:11Bill Simmons?

  With Mallory Rubin, my longtime friend and coworker.

• 0:15Speaker 01

  More than a decade together, unbelievable.

• 0:17Bill Simmons?

  Long times. Van Lathan, you can hear him and watch him on Higher Learning.

• 0:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 0:23Bill Simmons?

  Midnight Boys?

• 0:23Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 0:24Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 0:25Bill Simmons?

  I appreciate that. And the single best podcast on The Ringer, Ringer Tailgate.

• 0:28Speaker 01

  It's very special.

• 0:30Speaker 02

  Or The Joel Anderson Show, as we like to call it.

• 0:33Bill Simmons?

  My name is Bill Simmons, and this is the most important month in Rewatchables history. It's From Hell Month, and it's next. It's The Rewatchables, presented by FanDuel Predicts. You can predict the summer soccer showcase with FanDuel Predicts. From the opening game to the final whistle, stay locked in. Sign up now for your $25 bonus on FanDuel Predicts. Go to fanduel.com/predicts to sign up. Offered by FanDuel Prediction Markets, LLC, a registered futures commission merchant. 18+, restrictions apply. See terms at fanduel.com/predicts/bonus-offer/terms.

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• 2:26Bill Simmons?

  All right, it is the official start of From Hell Month. We, we kinda test drove it last week, squeezed our guy Steven Spielberg in. 2001: A Space Odyssey. Technically, in the parameters of From Hell Month, computer from hell.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 2:42Bill Simmons?

  Not really considered front. Now we're in the sweet spot of From Hell.

• 2:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:46Bill Simmons?

  This is it. Starting with Single Wave Female, I'm just gonna read through some of the From Hells and then we can talk about it.

• 2:52Speaker 01

  Fantastic.

• 2:52Bill Simmons?

  All right, so what's from hell? We've already done a few. Mallory was on a couple of them. The Affair from Hell, Fatal Attraction.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:00Bill Simmons?

  The Fan from Hell, Misery. All of our worst nightmares for a podcasting fan, just losing their minds.

• 3:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:07Bill Simmons?

  Husband from Hell, Sleeping With The Enemy. Me and Van did that one. Laura!

• 3:12Speaker 01

  Great one, great one.

• 3:14Bill Simmons?

  Uh, Boss from Hell, Disclosure. Were you in that one?

• 3:16Speaker 01

  No, sadly not.

• 3:18Bill Simmons?

  Oh, I'm sorry.

• 3:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:19Speaker 02

  I was on Disclosure.

• 3:21Bill Simmons?

  Here's ones we haven't done. The Little Kid from Hell, The Good Son.

• 3:23Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:24Bill Simmons?

  The Tenant From Hell, Pacific Kites, amazing movie. Nanny From Hell, Hand That Rocks The Cradle, movie Craig Whorbeck has not seen.

• 3:32Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 3:32Bill Simmons?

  You're in for a treat, Craig, cuz it's coming this month. Second Husband From Hell, Domestic Disturbance, one of the funniest movies of the 2000s. Teenager From Hell, The Crush, Alicia Silverstone.

• 3:43Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:45Bill Simmons?

  Boyfriend From Hell, Fear, Mark Wahlberg.

• 3:48Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 3:48Bill Simmons?

  Dog From Hell, Cujo.

• 3:50Speaker 02

  I was about to say Pet From Hell.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:51Bill Simmons?

  Cop From Hell?

• 3:53Speaker 02

  Cop From Hell is Lakeview Terrace?

• 3:55Bill Simmons?

  No, that's Neighbor From Hell with Sam Jackson.

• 3:57Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 3:58Bill Simmons?

  Cop From Hell is Unlawful Entry with Ray Liotta.

• 4:00Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 4:03Bill Simmons?

  Temp From Hell, Laura Flynn Boyle.

• 4:04Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 4:06Bill Simmons?

  Ex From Hell, The Ex. Nobody's seen it. Yancey Butler, her one great moment.

• 4:11Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 4:11Bill Simmons?

  Uh, ex, ex-husband from hell. What's that one? I just have a blank slate next to that one. What's ex-husband from hell? I don't even know. Uh, trucker from hell, Duel And Breakdown, and then today. The roommate from hell.

• 4:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:25Bill Simmons?

  Single wave female.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:27Bill Simmons?

  A movie that provokes visceral reactions from female watchers, including my daughter last week.

• 4:33Speaker 01

  Oh, first viewing.

• 4:34Bill Simmons?

  Who didn't know anything that was happening. And the haircut scene happens and my daughter was like, what the fuck?

• 4:39Speaker 01

  It's an Alzheimer.

• 4:40Bill Simmons?

  Just absolutely furious.

• 4:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:42Bill Simmons?

  Um, what is it about this movie, Mel?

• 4:44Speaker 01

  Oh, my goodness. What isn't it about the movie? It has everything, right? It has sex and intrigue and terror. It has psychosis and deep rooted fear. It has distressingly violence against animals, which is gonna be painful to talk about today.

• 4:58Bill Simmons?

  Oh, my god. Hey, tough.

• 4:59Speaker 01

  Horrible.

• 4:59Bill Simmons?

  I have a whole section carved out for that.

• 5:00Speaker 01

  You did tell us that you might have a golden retriever puppy here with you today.

• 5:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he's gonna stroke it like Hetty.

• 5:07Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  I'm glad you don't. I think that would've been too.

• 5:09Speaker 02

  I was just gonna stroke it.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  But the haircut is kind of the answer. It's that the movie is all in. It does the fullest and most obvious, but in the right and great way, version of the thing. There's nothing subtle about the movie at all, and that is kind of necessary for what it's trying to do.

• 5:28Bill Simmons?

  When you say the thing, are you saying the thing? Or are you saying the actual sci fi Kurt Russell movie, 1982, The Thing? Cause you could've said either.

• 5:35Speaker 01

  Either, I guess, yeah. The thing, like, the idea of, do I wanna fuck you or kill you or be you? Let me give you a little bit of all of it before we make our final decision at the end.

• 5:48Bill Simmons?

  Dan, this is really, I think, everything you've ever looked for in a movie.

• 5:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's tough. It's tough to find a movie that was more in my will house now or then.

• 5:57Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 5:57Speaker 02

  Right? Cause I have no, I went back and did research. I have no recollection of this movie, like, actually in theaters. This was a home theater cable juggernaut.

• 6:07Bill Simmons?

  I saw it in the theater, embarrassingly.

• 6:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, but it was a big hit.

• 6:10Bill Simmons?

  Not a lot going on in August 1992.

• 6:12Speaker 01

  Incredible.

• 6:13Speaker 02

  But when you watch the movie, the movie not playing with you.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  No.

• 6:17Speaker 02

  This movie takes itself seriously, which is the difference between movies like that then and now. Now, they gotta kind of give you a wink and a nod, like, look how crazy this is. But this is like a drama with a lot of real world stakes and actually kind of justifies itself throughout the run of the movie. And then that's why by the time you get to the end of it, you're like, yo, how the fuck did we get here? And that makes it even more awesome.

• 6:40Bill Simmons?

  Well, and you also have Bridget Fonda just in various stages of dress.

• 6:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:46Bill Simmons?

  For two hours.

• 6:47Speaker 01

  Lot of nudity in this movie.

• 6:47Bill Simmons?

  Jennifer Jason-Leigh is just like, I just hopped out of the shower and completely naked.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  Naked.

• 6:52Bill Simmons?

  Can you hand me a towel over there?

• 6:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:54Speaker 02

  Or I can wait.

• 6:54Bill Simmons?

  She's naked the whole movie.

• 6:56Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 6:56Bill Simmons?

  And, uh, and there's some, there's a weird backstory with them where Jennifer Jason, I remember this from the, when this happened. She, Jennifer Jason-Leigh dated, uh, Eric Stoltz.

• 7:08Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 7:08Bill Simmons?

  Who broke up with her and then started dating Bridget Fonda, who he dated for eight years.

• 7:12Speaker 01

  Oh my.

• 7:13Bill Simmons?

  And then they made the movie together. And I was like, I didn't have the premiere magazine for this one, but, um, but it was part of the research, like, yeah, it was a little awkward, but we made it work. But, so there's a tension with them that you can really feel. That's part of the movie, but also, I don't know.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  Should have renamed Sam Eric. Maybe if it hadn't been based off a book.

• 7:32Bill Simmons?

  Or just had Eric Stoltz play Sam.

• 7:34Speaker 01

  Could have done that as well.

• 7:36Speaker 02

  That takes it to the next fucking level.

• 7:37Bill Simmons?

  Bridget Fonda.

• 7:40Bill Simmons?

  She Hall of Famer for you, Van?

• 7:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, way up there. By the way.

• 7:43Bill Simmons?

  First ballot white girl Hall of Famer, like?

• 7:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:45Bill Simmons?

  Like, had to wait a year?

• 7:47Speaker 02

  At least in the nineties, let me compare it to a player. It's kind of like a Clyde Drexler.

• 7:51Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah.

• 7:51Speaker 02

  I put her in a Clyde Drexler territory.

• 7:53Bill Simmons?

  Dream teamer.

• 7:54Speaker 02

  Dream teamer, all the tools, has every single accolade, but still not talked about as much because kind of just like, this, you don't see Clyde around, you don't see Clyde hanging out, whatever. And the same thing kind of happened to Bridget Fonda. It, during that time, it was such a hotly contested race for who was going to be the face.

• 8:14Bill Simmons?

  What a class of actresses.

• 8:16Speaker 02

  It was.

• 8:17Bill Simmons?

  Julia.

• 8:17Speaker 02

  Julia, Meg Ryan.

• 8:19Bill Simmons?

  Sandra Bullock coming up.

• 8:20Speaker 02

  Is coming up.

• 8:21Bill Simmons?

  Reese Witherspoon's lurking in the distance, waiting for a mid nineties room.

• 8:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:25Speaker 02

  The back half of the nineties after Clueless.

• 8:27Bill Simmons?

  Gina Davis is holding on.

• 8:28Speaker 02

  Gina Davis is holding on. Liv Tyler is storming the castle. All of this stuff is happening at the, at the same time. Bridget Fonda was as well positioned as any of those actresses between singles, between, what was the, uh, the?

• 8:41Bill Simmons?

  I have the, well, I have it. Peter Fonda's daughter, first of all.

• 8:44Speaker 01

  Hollywood royalty.

• 8:45Bill Simmons?

  Aunt Jane.

• 8:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:47Bill Simmons?

  Uh, grandfather Henry Fonda.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 8:50Bill Simmons?

  You a non-Golden Pond person?

• 8:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, yes.

• 8:52Bill Simmons?

  My wife loves that movie.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, of course. Woman of taste and character.

• 8:56Bill Simmons?

  Showed up Scandal nineteen eighty-eight with Val Kilmer's wife.

• 8:59Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 9:00Bill Simmons?

  Nineteen ninety, Godfather Three.

• 9:01Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 9:02Bill Simmons?

  Cut, apparently cut out of a lot, like Fillmore stuff, cut out, but had a little affair with Andy Garcia, but then

• 9:10Bill Simmons?

  Single Wife, female ninety-two, and Singles ninety-two.

• 9:13Speaker 01

  Right.

• 9:13Bill Simmons?

  Easily, we're into the spoiler, that's Apex Mal.

• 9:16Speaker 01

  Has to be.

• 9:16Bill Simmons?

  She felt like the it thing.

• 9:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:18Bill Simmons?

  Both of those movies, Singles, Singles actually didn't do as well as this movie, but had like a distinct look too, and it just kept going. Never really happened for her the way that, uh, I think we all thought, and the big one later was Jackie Brown in ninety-seven, which she's great in.

• 9:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:34Bill Simmons?

  And then has this great, great, um, fork in the road, Mal.

• 9:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:39Bill Simmons?

  Turns down Ally McBeal.

• 9:40Speaker 01

  Well, and then only acted for a few more years after Jackie Brown, right? Stops acting in the early two thousands.

• 9:46Bill Simmons?

  Late classic, nineteen ninety-nine, Simple Plan ninety-eight. Her last IMDB's in oh-two and had a serious car accident in Malibu in oh-three.

• 9:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:55Bill Simmons?

  And fractured her vertebrae and then just stopped acting. Her IMDB just ends.

• 9:59Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 10:00Bill Simmons?

  Like she died, but she didn't die, she's still around, she married Danny Elfman.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  The Ally McBeal nugget is fascinating because now, of course, I'm forced to think, what would that have meant for Calista Flockhart? And thus Harrison Ford.

• 10:11Bill Simmons?

  Maybe you're with Harrison Ford.

• 10:12Speaker 02

  Maybe you're you.

• 10:13Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, maybe you're Mrs. Harrison Ford right now.

• 10:15Speaker 01

  You know, we met recently at a whiskey event.

• 10:17Bill Simmons?

  I heard, I saw, I studied the pictures.

• 10:21Speaker 02

  Does Harrison have the earring?

• 10:22Speaker 01

  He was wearing a kilt.

• 10:23Speaker 02

  Does he have the earring now?

• 10:24Speaker 01

  No, I don't think he's currently wearing the earring.

• 10:26Speaker 02

  Okay, so the earring's gone.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  But that was, of course, a big part of the...

• 10:29Bill Simmons?

  First of all, Ally McBeal was a phenomenon.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 10:32Bill Simmons?

  It was like legitimately like one of the most talked about shows of the late nineties, and I think if Bridget Fonda's in there, it still is. There was a little bit of a discovery with Calista Flockhart because nobody knew who she was, but I think Bridget Fonda would have been huge. And that probably would have carried her for another six, seven years in the, in the spotlight. I thought, I had as a, a hot take I'll just do now.

• 10:53Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 10:54Bill Simmons?

  I think Sandra Bullock might have market corrected her.

• 10:58Speaker 01

  Oh, interesting.

• 10:58Bill Simmons?

  It's, it's, because you look at the movies Sandra Bullock makes in, um, they're basically, they're born in the same year, 1964. Sandra Bullock's in The Vanishing, Demolition Man, Speed, The Net, While You Were Sleeping, and A Time To Kill. I feel like Bridget Fonda could have been in all of those. They're just like better, bigger movies than everything that happened to Bridget Fonda.

• 11:20Speaker 02

  This is your best take in a while, and I'll tell you why.

• 11:21Bill Simmons?

  Thank you.

• 11:21Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, you got it. Uh, so, because even in 92, you see what Bridget Fonda is capable of, because in this movie, she plays the, uh, socialite about town, completely independent, achieving, beautiful lady.

• 11:38Bill Simmons?

  But a little weak.

• 11:39Speaker 02

  A little weak. But then in Singles, she's actually not that. In Singles, she is the, sort of, a little bit more every-girl type that's actually.

• 11:47Bill Simmons?

  It's a Sandra Bullock role.

• 11:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:49Speaker 02

  It's a Sandra Bullock role. And that actually became Sandra Bullock's thing, is that Sandra Bullock could play every woman, but then, when Sandra Bullock, when you have to go, wow, look how gorgeous, she could also do that, which was kind of Bridget Fonda's thing.

• 12:02Bill Simmons?

  The one that missed with her that I think was a good fork in the road, she's in that movie with Nick Cage. It's called, they changed the title. It's called It Could Happen To You. Originally, it was called something like.

• 12:12Speaker 02

  Oh, Cop Wins A Million Dollars or something like that?

• 12:14Bill Simmons?

  Cop Leaves A Million Dollar Tip Or Something.

• 12:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 12:16Bill Simmons?

  It's a real-life story about a lottery ticket, and the cop leaving it, part of it for the waitress, and then they fall in love. And it was a good idea for a movie, and it just didn't make it. And it's weird, because Nick Cage's career takes off right after. But it was, that was another one that was a Sandra Bullock role. So I don't know. What do you think?

• 12:31Speaker 01

  Nick Cage Renaissance, Spider Noir?

• 12:33Speaker 02

  Oh, huge.

• 12:34Speaker 01

  Great stuff. This is interesting, because I wouldn't, you're compelling me, both of you are compelling me, you with the take, you with the defense of the take. I was prepared to say, the, the first thing that pops into my mind with Sandra Bullock is like the sweetness.

• 12:48Speaker 02

  Huh.

• 12:48Speaker 01

  And I think that, at least when we're thinking about this movie and Bridget Fonda right now. There's something, I mean, that's like, you know, the kids say bracket complimentary, like alien about her, right? Completely inaccessible. That's why she's perfect for this role. It's interesting to know that she was presented with the opportunity to play either Ally or Hetty and chose Ally because that makes sense to me as the, I think, the choice and feels, right? It's like kind of a weird alternate history to consider her in the other role. But the idea that she would be the person someone else needed to be near, needed to be with, needed to become.

• 13:20Bill Simmons?

  Needed to be coveted.

• 13:21Speaker 01

  Tracks completely. Now, I think Sandra Bullock could do that, but that feels like the Bridget Fonda kind of like essence to me because this is such an iconic role in the Apex Mountain.

• 13:33Bill Simmons?

  Singles, she plays more of what you're talking about. She plays. She's just so fucking cool. I was so in love with her in Singles.

• 13:40Speaker 01

  She was.

• 13:41Speaker 02

  And like in Singles, you're watching her and you're going, Jesus, when is somebody gonna see the value in that?

• 13:46Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, she's right here.

• 13:47Speaker 02

  She's the one. And then he sneezes at the end and they fall in love. Great. But Cameron B. on his shit, like what a great character. But I feel like if Sandra Bullock is in this movie, that she's Hetty.

• 14:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 14:01Bill Simmons?

  It's probably the Sandra Bullock role I would have wanted. She never played it. So if Bridget Fonda's, because it's a great what if with this movie that I never know about. If Bridget Fonda is actually Hetty in this movie.

• 14:15Speaker 01

  What do you think about that? I don't think it works. It's difficult for me. She's a very talented performer. I think she's fantastic in this movie and I think rightly, most of the conversation is around Jennifer Jason Leigh as Hetty because that performance is like debauched in the best possible way. But Bridget Fonda as Ally, as the person who you look at and you're just like, I need to try to inhabit that space. You know, when Sam says to her in the early sequence and they're in bed, he's like, well, you know, she's like, I know Graham, I'll invite Graham to the wedding. He's like, everyone in New York is gonna love you as soon as they get to meet you because everybody loves you. You know, when Ally and Hetty are walking down the street, they're talking about the fashion. There are some performers.

• 14:57Speaker 01

  Some aspects of the plot where they would have to like work harder to convince us that this person could be this effortlessly stu- like fashionable, right? She's not from New York. She moved here and she just dresses like a supermodel. She dresses like a superstar and you believe that fully. So this casting and that choice for her to be Ally feels right. I have a harder time imagining her as Hedy.

• 15:19Bill Simmons?

  I agree with that. You're also in the Carolyn Bisser era. She's got that kind of same fashionista. Kind of feels very early 90s to me, but more importantly, Jennifer Jason-Leigh is incredible.

• 15:30Speaker 02

  Just going crazy.

• 15:31Speaker 01

  Unbelievable. Unbelievable.

• 15:33Bill Simmons?

  I actually like, this movie kind of ruined her for me.

• 15:36Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 15:37Bill Simmons?

  She's so creepy and weird and gross.

• 15:41Speaker 02

  But that's her, that's her thing though.

• 15:42Bill Simmons?

  I know, but this one I like couldn't come back from where I'm like, I think you're just like this. I don't think you're acting. I really think this is you.

• 15:49Speaker 01

  Very tough.

• 15:50Bill Simmons?

  You're revealing, because that's how, that's how convincing she was as Hedy. I was like, this is beyond acting.

• 15:55Speaker 02

  Like when Hedy starts like really sizzling, I mean, when the anger gets there. It's like scary.

• 16:01Speaker 01

  It's terrifying.

• 16:02Speaker 02

  It's scary and it's focused and it's intense. And I think that's the thing that I probably would have had trouble.

• 16:08Bill Simmons?

  With Bridget Fonda.

• 16:09Speaker 02

  With Bridget Fonda.

• 16:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it would have felt like she was acting it.

• 16:11Speaker 02

  Right.

• 16:11Bill Simmons?

  Like when she, when she's tied up in the end with the thing on her mouth.

• 16:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:15Bill Simmons?

  And Hedy's getting mad and all of a sudden you hear stuff breaking in the background. And it cut, and Bridget Fonda's like looking around and then Hedy just comes back in with the knife.

• 16:25Speaker 02

  By that point.

• 16:25Bill Simmons?

  Jesus Christ.

• 16:26Speaker 02

  I love this fucking movie. By that point.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  Cerated knife.

• 16:29Speaker 02

  Fully in crazy land.

• 16:30Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah.

• 16:31Speaker 02

  Like we are fully there, you know? And look.

• 16:34Bill Simmons?

  We weren't fully there when she blew, blew Ally's boyfriend and then jammed us.

• 16:40Speaker 02

  That is the thing about the movie. We really are always in crazy land.

• 16:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 16:45Speaker 02

  In the movie, we're all, we're already there. We're in crazy land when she is erasing messages. We're in crazy land when she's hiding letters. All of that stuff.

• 16:53Speaker 01

  And that's right away.

• 16:53Speaker 02

  Deeply, deeply crazy.

• 16:55Bill Simmons?

  I would say the puppy murder.

• 16:56Speaker 02

  The puppy murder, which I'm not quite sure if she actually, because I'm a.

• 17:00Speaker 01

  Come on.

• 17:01Speaker 02

  I'm gonna make a defensive Hedy later.

• 17:02Speaker 01

  Absolutely not.

• 17:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, see, I'm gonna make a, I'm gonna make a defensive Hedy later. But by the time we get to super crazy land is. Tied up, knife, screaming in the background. And you were just laughing and having a great fucking time with the movie, man.

• 17:19Speaker 01

  I think there's a case that the scarier aspects of the performance are actually the early, like subtle indicators that something is lurking beneath the surface really early. You mentioned like the letter, you know, we, we learned that's in like the first couple of weeks of them living together, that that stuff is happening. But, you know, something like even just the quiet menace of like the, the looming harbinger of the way she says, well, this is like their first conversation. She learns about Sam, the photo. You're not gonna like, get back together. I don't want to catch you on the rebound. There's a threat in the first conversation when Ally doesn't call. She spends the night out after recasting with Sam.

• 17:57Bill Simmons?

  She's lying in the bed with a puppy.

• 17:59Speaker 01

  How dare, like, it's New York, things happen.

• 18:02Speaker 02

  Where the hell have you been? That's so hilarious to me.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  Terrifying.

• 18:04Bill Simmons?

  Buddy was really upset.

• 18:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. Buddy was upset.

• 18:07Speaker 01

  Poor Buddy.

• 18:07Speaker 02

  You, you're gonna get me started early. I just want to say something real quick. Hetty asked her.

• 18:13Speaker 01

  She did.

• 18:13Speaker 02

  She asked, she goes, hey.

• 18:15Speaker 01

  This connects to one of my oddities.

• 18:17Speaker 02

  You're not just gonna leave me.

• 18:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:19Speaker 02

  Right? And go back to him. She asked.

• 18:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:22Speaker 02

  And what, what's her name? Fucking lie. She deep down knew it was a chance that that would happen. I'm, I'm not gonna get into it now, I'm gonna do this later, but Hetty, she was looking out for it. She was trying to protect herself and Ally wouldn't let her.

• 18:34Speaker 01

  I'm with you.

• 18:35Bill Simmons?

  Bridget Fonda? She flips roles? What do you, is this a different movie for you?

• 18:39Speaker 04

  Definitely.

• 18:39Bill Simmons?

  You didn't know anything about this movie.

• 18:41Speaker 04

  No, other than knowing the phrase single white female.

• 18:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:43Speaker 04

  Not, not a whole lot. No, Fonda can't be, Fonda has like this old school Hollywood look to her. She's like so clean and refined. Jennifer Jason Lee, the whole movie's in like giant T-shirts. Like, she's always like contorting her body, she's always on the ground. She's like a, she's like a little spider.

• 18:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, they did a good job of filming it too where it's always looking up at Bridget Fonda and it's always looking down.

• 19:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 19:05Bill Simmons?

  Um, she's daughter Vic Morrow. Fast Times in 82. And then has a really nice run. Flesh and Blood, Hitcher, Last Exit to Brooklyn. Miami Blues is a really good outball movie.

• 19:16Speaker 02

  Love.

• 19:16Bill Simmons?

  She's in Back Trap, she's in Rush with, uh, Jason Patrick.

• 19:19Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 19:20Speaker 02

  Um, that one I don't love.

• 19:22Bill Simmons?

  You don't love Rush?

• 19:22Speaker 02

  I've never been able to quite connect with the movie.

• 19:24Bill Simmons?

  I never loved it either.

• 19:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. Like, everybody always talks about.

• 19:27Bill Simmons?

  It was like very well reviewed. She was a very respected actress.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 19:30Bill Simmons?

  Um, and then ends up with this one. And, uh. I know, she's had a good run.

• 19:36Speaker 01

  I mean, she got nominated for an Oscar for Hateful Eight. She was incredible in Fargo just a few years ago.

• 19:41Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 19:42Speaker 01

  She's never bad. It's really a question of whether the role is so perfect for her that she can be iconic in it. And she's done that multiple times.

• 19:50Bill Simmons?

  And I've never recovered from her from this movie. Every time I see her in a movie, I'm always like, watch out for her. Watch out. Don't give her your keys.

• 20:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm trying to think of other roles like that where I can never quite get over the role that the person played.

• 20:05Bill Simmons?

  Usually it's like supporting characters. It's weird when it's like a star.

• 20:08Speaker 02

  My mom never trusted Danny Glover again after Color Purple. Couldn't do it. Couldn't do it. Couldn't do it. Danny is somewhere right now getting his ass whooped psychically by my mom. We would watch. We would watch like Lethal Weapon and my mother would be like, I wonder if he beats his wife. And we'd be like, come on, man.

• 20:27Bill Simmons?

  Come on.

• 20:28Speaker 02

  That's Color Purple. Come on, man. That's fucking.

• 20:30Speaker 04

  There are some people like, it's just like Michael Shannon. Every time I see Michael Shannon in something, I'm like, I'm not trusting this guy.

• 20:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure.

• 20:37Bill Simmons?

  We talked about this with Sleeping with the Enemy.

• 20:39Speaker 02

  Oh, that ruined that fucking guy's career.

• 20:41Bill Simmons?

  That guy can never work again after that.

• 20:42Speaker 04

  You just saw him. You're like, Laura!

• 20:44Speaker 02

  He tried to come out right after that and go do Robin Hood.

• 20:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 20:49Speaker 02

  I remember I looked and I was like, no fucking way. I'm not watching you do this to May Mary.

• 20:52Bill Simmons?

  You're a domestic abuser.

• 20:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:53Bill Simmons?

  It's like, I was just playing a part. Single wife female taps into a few things, including real life things that work for really everybody who watches it. No matter what age you are, even for my daughter last week. You never really know with your roommate.

• 21:07Speaker 01

  You never know with anyone, man.

• 21:08Bill Simmons?

  Never really know.

• 21:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's tough.

• 21:10Bill Simmons?

  Female friend A, kind of getting on the corner of female friend B a little bit. Like, yo, you, did you borrow my stuff?

• 21:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure.

• 21:20Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 21:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:22Bill Simmons?

  Oh, you, wait, you wore my jacket? Okay.

• 21:25Speaker 01

  Are you wearing my perfume?

• 21:25Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 21:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. Did you fuck my boyfriend?

• 21:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. You blew my boyfriend and killed him with a high heel?

• 21:31Speaker 01

  Did he suck his dick? Did he come in 25 seconds?

• 21:33Speaker 02

  Did he know?

• 21:36Speaker 01

  I got a lot of notes for Sam on that one.

• 21:37Speaker 02

  Did he, wait, hold it, hold it.

• 21:38Speaker 01

  Save it?

• 21:39Speaker 02

  Okay, okay. Well, I'm telling you, there's a lot of hairy shit.

• 21:42Bill Simmons?

  That's the money shot of this podcast, literally.

• 21:44Speaker 02

  There's a lot of hairy shit in here. Okay, cool.

• 21:46Bill Simmons?

  Bring deep dive it.

• 21:47Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 21:49Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 21:49Bill Simmons?

  And then ripping off the hairdo, which was the iconic moment of this movie.

• 21:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:53Bill Simmons?

  Um, I don't remember seeing this in the theater, but I would imagine if it was a crowded theater, a gasp.

• 21:58Speaker 01

  No question.

• 21:59Bill Simmons?

  Would have been in the audience for that.

• 22:00Speaker 01

  No question.

• 22:00Bill Simmons?

  It's like, oh my god, what are you doing?

• 22:03Speaker 01

  It's crazy.

• 22:03Bill Simmons?

  And Bridget Fonda's face is great. Um, and then when you get like two, something happens with a roommate, you get too close. And there's kind of no way out because you have a lease.

• 22:16Speaker 02

  Right.

• 22:16Bill Simmons?

  Where it's like, oh, this might not be working out. And that's it? You're stuck together? It's like a contract, it's like the Lamar Jackson Ravens contract? Sorry, Mal.

• 22:24Speaker 01

  Rude. Uh, not in this case.

• 22:26Speaker 02

  Direct shot.

• 22:26Speaker 01

  Part of the plot is you can't be on the lease. You can't be on the lease and no one can know you live here. And so there's a built in opportunity at any point for Ally to say, you're freaking me out. I just need you to leave. That'll be a through line of my commentary during this podcast.

• 22:42Speaker 02

  Which I went and looked.

• 22:43Bill Simmons?

  But she's a weak person.

• 22:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:45Bill Simmons?

  As has been established.

• 22:46Speaker 01

  It's, you're familiar with the term idiot plot, right? There's a little bit of an idiot plot thing going on here with Ally in particular, where it is just the, the, the list of things that Hetty has done grows so long and so severe so quickly that it defies belief.

• 23:03Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but this is a staple of the From Hell movie. You need the character.

• 23:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:10Bill Simmons?

  Who's just overlooking all the signs of like, man, since Van showed up, weird shit's been happening.

• 23:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 23:17Bill Simmons?

  It can't be Van's fault, right?

• 23:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 23:19Speaker 02

  In the book, this rent controlled New York situation is a much, much bigger deal. I went and looked at that a little bit because it's actually Sam.

• 23:27Bill Simmons?

  You read the SWF book?

• 23:28Speaker 02

  I read the book. I went like a.

• 23:30Speaker 01

  A description of the book?

• 23:31Speaker 02

  A description of the book. It's actually Sam, who she's actually hiding, who they're on a lease with, which makes it necessary that all of this stuff kind of gets kept on a hush, hush, low, low. They kind of halfway do that in, uh, the, the, the movie a little bit, but to Mal's point, she's actually more empowered to say, get the fuck out of here.

• 23:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:49Speaker 02

  Because nobody, she's not supposed to be living there because it's rent control in this great building.

• 23:53Speaker 01

  It's effective because it creates this like, it enhances the idea that she's a specter, right? That like. The person, the woman who's getting on the elevator could see her and be like, who are you? As she's looking, you know, in the lobby window across to watch Sam and Ally. Or the idea that Graham could say, I like was chasing after you and I thought it was you because it was your bag and your jacket. And then it wasn't you, but I've never met Hetty. And Ally's like, well, she's shy and also I'm hiding her. Most of all, of course.

• 24:17Bill Simmons?

  You mean trusty gay friend Graham?

• 24:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:19Speaker 01

  I have some notes coming for Graham as well.

• 24:21Speaker 02

  Right. You know something else about the Ally character, though? Is that the Ally character throughout the entire movie is always portrayed as a character that's not quite confident about anything.

• 24:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's, she's afraid. And that sets up with the fake, the forged suicide note, like, I was never this afraid. No one will believe I was this afraid.

• 24:41Bill Simmons?

  I was like, I think I would have.

• 24:42Speaker 01

  This afraid or afraid in a different way. The setup for the idea, though, that Hetty can say at the end, they're gonna, I'm gonna be able to pin this on you because I was never here. That's very effective and very compelling. That's good.

• 24:55Speaker 02

  But I mean, people, she was there for a while at that point. There's only thing I understand about that. She's like, she actually looks at her by that point. Ally is convinced that Ally's go, she goes, people know that you were here. You fucking nuts? What the fuck is wrong with you, right?

• 25:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, we had ice cream cones together.

• 25:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, we were like hanging out, taking pictures, pictures of me, you and the fucking dog. What are you talking about? Like, people are gonna know that you were here.

• 25:13Speaker 01

  You threw a dog off the balcony?

• 25:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, everybody saw it. But, but so like Ally.

• 25:17Speaker 01

  Terrible.

• 25:18Speaker 02

  She's, she's a little bit, she's the power play between her and the boss character, which is one of my favorite characters.

• 25:23Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 25:24Speaker 02

  Entire, but.

• 25:25Bill Simmons?

  It's just the early 90s personified.

• 25:27Speaker 01

  Unbelievable.

• 25:28Bill Simmons?

  Right. Over the top sexual harasser.

• 25:30Speaker 02

  But these, all of these early 90s movies are trying to tell you that that's wrong. Because that's like the first time that society has contended with the fact that maybe it's wrong.

• 25:40Bill Simmons?

  It's for real.

• 25:40Speaker 02

  It's for real.

• 25:41Bill Simmons?

  This was like 92, 93 range.

• 25:43Speaker 02

  People didn't even know whether or not to say harassment or harassment. It was, I remember, so.

• 25:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 25:49Speaker 02

  There, so there's a character like that that shows up in all of these movies because they're trying to make this guy the new high school jerk of the 90s. Because they're trying to make this a larger conversation.

• 25:59Bill Simmons?

  What about when he's in the office and there's somebody else who's on a chair and he's just like leaning over rocking the chair? It's like, maybe you could have scaled back this guy like 10%.

• 26:09Speaker 02

  He's going for it.

• 26:09Bill Simmons?

  We get it. He's a scumbag. Um, this movie was directed by Barbe Schroder?

• 26:17Speaker 01

  Barbe.

• 26:18Bill Simmons?

  Barbet? Barbe?

• 26:20Speaker 02

  I thought it was Barbet.

• 26:21Bill Simmons?

  Barbet?

• 26:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:22Bill Simmons?

  Directed by Barbet Schroder? From a screenplay by Don Roos. Based on the 1990 novel SWF Seeks Same. By John Lutz. I do not have that one on my first edition movie collection. So he made Reversal of Fortune, Single White Female, and then the movie that we've been dying to do in rewatchables forever, Kiss of Death. With Caruso in Cage. That is not streaming and basically doesn't exist. Sixteen million dollar budget made eighty-four million dollars.

• 26:54Speaker 02

  Legitimate hit.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  Impressive.

• 26:55Speaker 02

  Legitimate hit.

• 26:57Bill Simmons?

  Roger Ebert. Do you know the answer to this, Craig?

• 26:58Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 26:59Speaker 04

  I do. I read the Wikipedia.

• 27:01Bill Simmons?

  Three stars. Pretty good. No genre is beyond redemption or beneath contempt. And here the slasher genre is giving its due with strong performances and direction. Raj loves a good story.

• 27:12Speaker 01

  Incredible stuff from Raj's.

• 27:14Speaker 02

  It seems like this movie was fairly well reviewed. Some ups and downs, but they were, it's Schroder.

• 27:22Speaker 02

  The seriousness that he put into the direction of this movie, especially with all the, the coming off Reversal of Fortune, which was like sort of a mini phenomenon. Like the depiction of.

• 27:31Bill Simmons?

  The big iron moment.

• 27:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, he wins the Oscar and then.

• 27:35Bill Simmons?

  Brought us to Die Hard Three.

• 27:36Speaker 02

  Exactly. So like, he kind of brought a lot of credibility into the movie and it seems as if a lot of the critics that viewed it said, hey, in less capable hands, this movie would have been a complete zany ride into bullshit land. But he takes it so seriously and he crafts it so well that it actually turns into a somewhat serious kind of actual movie.

• 28:00Bill Simmons?

  He does a really good job with the apartment.

• 28:02Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 28:04Bill Simmons?

  I never, you have no map in your head for where the rooms are, where the main room is, the kitchen. It's just kind of.

• 28:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:12Bill Simmons?

  It's almost like they're using three different apartments, but I don't think they did. And you just kind of never know where you are in a good way.

• 28:18Speaker 01

  There's something really brilliant about the kind of like apartment and the round geography of it, the way they have that foyer and all of the rooms. So go back, another version of what you were saying about a spider, right? There's like every room is a leg off of this middle hub. And so this idea that everybody has their own. There's this discussion early about privacy. That's about the other neighbors. But then it kind of you you shrink it down to inside of their own home. Privacy, of course, is not a thing that exists for any of the characters ultimately. But the idea that you could always hear and see. Because every room has like a point of visibility into another from across this foyer. And then it makes those moments where like Hetty has left her door open to loudly masturbate in the middle of the night or something like that. Can't wait to talk about that scene.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  All the more notable because you know she's like, you can see me, you can hear me, you can walk over.

• 29:09Speaker 02

  Also, the apartment complex is unsafe. The elevator is old and rickety. There's a balcony that your dog can fall through. You don't have any safety from your neighbor listening to you fuck your boyfriend. Like the place itself.

• 29:24Speaker 01

  There's an incinerator that anyone can use.

• 29:27Speaker 02

  Boiler rooms, like boiler rooms, which you don't have in movies, we talked about that too. So the apartment building itself is a character. And it's kind of.

• 29:35Bill Simmons?

  In a good way.

• 29:35Speaker 02

  In a good way, it's as destabilizing in a way as Hetty is.

• 29:39Bill Simmons?

  Listen, there's a lot to get into with this movie. We have to take a break. I cannot wait to do the rewatchable scenes. That's next.

• 29:47Bill Simmons?

  The rewatchables is brought to you by FanDuel predicts. You can predict the summer soccer showcase, wink wink, action. All the way to the final match with FanDuel predicts. All you have to do is sign up to get your $25 bonus from the opening game to the final whistle. Stay locked in with every pass, every goal, every moment that moves us closer to crowning our first champion in four years. Sign up now for your $25 bonus on FanDuel predicts. Go to FanDuel.com slash predicts to sign up. That's FanDuel.com slash predicts to get your $25 bonus. Offered by FanDuel Prediction Markets, LLC, a registered futures commission merchant.

• 30:28Bill Simmons?

  18 plus restrictions apply. See terms at FanDuel.com slash predicts slash bonus dash offer dash terms.

• 30:37Bill Simmons?

  All right.

• 30:40Bill Simmons?

  Most rewatchable scene. We already know the answer, but let's do a couple of alternate candidates. How his possible roommates check the place out?

• 30:48Speaker 01

  This is incredible.

• 30:50Bill Simmons?

  Roommates montage.

• 30:52Speaker 01

  Incredible. This is... There's a way to look at the movie and justice scene and say, this is a reductive, like, offensive string of stereotypes. But then there's the way you should watch it, which is to embrace the, like, very intentional comedy and parody of it. You have, like, the contractor, the biker who's coming in, I'm banging on the walls, I'm gonna fix it up. You've got the gorgeous, stunning, hot chick who's eyeing Ally and Ally's eyeing her. You have the third candidate, who says, and I quote, "I'm an incest survivor, you know?"

• 31:24Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 31:25Speaker 01

  "I haven't remembered the incident yet, but I know it's there somewhere." Therapy girl, right?

• 31:29Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 31:30Speaker 01

  And then, of course, you have, like, the seemingly normal woman, who also seems like she could maybe be a secret murderer. There's something very, kind of, like, creepy about her perfection. So you're hitting all the beats, and then in walks Hetty.

• 31:43Bill Simmons?

  And Ally's slump crying, holding a same picture.

• 31:46Speaker 02

  And the interesting thing is, the woman that, the seemingly, the way-too-sacker and nice lady, the movie sets her up as the roommate that she should have actually chosen, right?

• 31:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, and was about to.

• 31:58Speaker 02

  And was about to choose. And then Hetty earns her way.

• 32:02Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 32:02Speaker 02

  Into the apartment, right?

• 32:04Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 32:04Speaker 02

  She actually earns her place in the movie, which gives the audience the opportunity to say, "Hey, Ally's not an idiot for picking her. She caught her at a low moment, then the water sprays them, she fixes the water."

• 32:19Bill Simmons?

  And they're eating ice cream cones.

• 32:19Speaker 02

  Then they're eating ice cream again.

• 32:21Speaker 01

  Makes her a tea. There's, like, the nurturing aspect, which is a through line, and there's always something, this is one of the things I actually love about the movie. When Hetty is trying to be, like, a caregiver... It is comforting and like incredibly discomforting at the same time. Like the breakfast scene later with Sam is a good example. She's like, I made you breakfast scrambled or fried. She's like, I'll just take this orange. Can you stop trying to fuck my boyfriend?

• 32:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:44Speaker 01

  You know, uh, what do you guys think about me? Maybe like, would you trust me to make dinner tonight? It's our anniversary.

• 32:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:50Speaker 01

  We're good.

• 32:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:51Speaker 01

  You know, but you do understand how Ally, who like didn't want to be on her own and is mourning the loss of this relationship is like seeking that nurturing presence in her life, even though Hetty is not that. She is able to like provide that in bursts so that Ally craves it.

• 33:08Bill Simmons?

  This is another trope though.

• 33:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 33:10Bill Simmons?

  No family.

• 33:11Speaker 02

  Right.

• 33:12Bill Simmons?

  No friends. Her only friend is Graham, the trusting gay guy. Upstairs or downstairs?

• 33:18Speaker 01

  Upstairs.

• 33:18Speaker 02

  Upstairs.

• 33:19Bill Simmons?

  Available all the time for her.

• 33:20Speaker 01

  Cat lover.

• 33:21Bill Simmons?

  Just has a cat, doesn't have a job.

• 33:22Speaker 01

  Carmen.

• 33:23Bill Simmons?

  Anytime I'm here, let's do a podcast.

• 33:25Speaker 02

  Also listening, listening to her have sex. Like Graham, he could have taped his shit up, right? Graham is a freak.

• 33:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's like, how, how long did Graham, why did he Graham wait? How many years to tell her that?

• 33:35Speaker 01

  Well.

• 33:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that.

• 33:37Speaker 04

  By the way, I've been listening to you have sex for three years.

• 33:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 33:40Speaker 02

  Wow, loud one last night.

• 33:43Bill Simmons?

  You like being on top, it sounds like.

• 33:44Speaker 01

  Graham is like quietly a Rose from Titanic Award character who's sneaky sucks candidate. Because he's supposed to be like, I'm your friend. You can come talk to me. You can tell me what's on your mind about Hetty. You can tell me what's on your mind about Sam. But not only is he listening and not telling her for months on end. Here's my bigger note for Graham. I'm just gonna set up some of the pet stuff to come. You're waiting till a couple of days before you're going to Boston for a wedding to set up? Cat care?

• 34:10Speaker 02

  Cat care, tough.

• 34:11Speaker 01

  What the hell?

• 34:12Speaker 02

  What's going on?

• 34:12Speaker 01

  That is just not sufficient.

• 34:13Speaker 02

  By the way.

• 34:14Speaker 01

  Hey, here's some keys. Would you swing by? Yeah, good.

• 34:17Speaker 02

  A fucking loyal cat.

• 34:18Bill Simmons?

  Hey, isn't that why they have kitty litter?

• 34:20Speaker 01

  That, his commentary on the litter box was galling.

• 34:23Speaker 02

  He's an asshole. By the way, I'll tell you something. And the cat loves him.

• 34:27Speaker 01

  He's not an asshole. The cat stuck next to him when he was seemingly dead.

• 34:31Speaker 02

  By the way.

• 34:31Speaker 01

  That's terrible.

• 34:32Speaker 02

  Listen to something.

• 34:33Speaker 01

  That's very upsetting.

• 34:33Speaker 02

  Listen to something that happens at the end of the movie. When she's giving her voiceover, she says, I cried all. The whole week of Sam's funeral, Graham told me, that's not going to bring him back. The week of the funeral.

• 34:50Speaker 01

  Graham.

• 34:50Speaker 02

  Graham says, that's not gonna bring him back. Stop crying bitch, this motherfucker's dead. Graham, are you nuts? The, i- if, if she was crying, six years after the funeral, maybe you say that. The week of the funeral. He says that to her, Graham, what the fuck is up with you, dog?

• 35:08Speaker 01

  Stop crying, I can't hear your conversations and your sex through the vent if you're crying, stop crying.

• 35:13Bill Simmons?

  I cried all week after the funeral for my boyfriend, who died because my roommate rammed a high heel in his face after blowing him.

• 35:21Speaker 01

  Stiletto to the eyes.

• 35:22Bill Simmons?

  Graham's like, move on, move on.

• 35:24Speaker 02

  Find another roommate.

• 35:28Bill Simmons?

  I have for alternate rewatchable scenes, Hetty walking in on Ally, trying her earrings and perfume.

• 35:34Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 35:35Speaker 01

  Great one.

• 35:35Bill Simmons?

  I mean, I know you, we probably have the same thing coming later, but there's some violations on Ally's side.

• 35:41Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 35:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 35:43Bill Simmons?

  We'll talk about it later.

• 35:43Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 35:44Bill Simmons?

  Uh, random topless scene, I like when there's nudity early to be like, all bets are off this movie.

• 35:48Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 35:49Bill Simmons?

  There's no reason for this girl to be naked.

• 35:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:51Bill Simmons?

  Get ready, buckle up.

• 35:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 35:52Bill Simmons?

  Um, and then Hetty does the, take the pearl earrings, try them on, and she try, and we're just like, okay. We're getting, we're getting off here in Weirdville.

• 36:01Speaker 01

  Sniffs her neck.

• 36:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's just getting weird.

• 36:05Bill Simmons?

  Hetty buys a golden retriever puppy without telling her. And, uh, some of the worst puppy raising possible, no crate. Here puppy, just go in this room, we'll close the door, what could go wrong?

• 36:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, tough.

• 36:17Bill Simmons?

  Um, and then, uh, all of a sudden it bonds them together and they do the family portrait, family portrait is really creepy.

• 36:24Speaker 02

  You know that that's, after, after they do this, anytime in a movie.

• 36:27Bill Simmons?

  Family portrait's tough.

• 36:28Speaker 02

  Anytime in a movie where three characters get together and they take a picture, somebody's fucking dead in that movie.

• 36:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 36:35Speaker 02

  And they're gonna look back at the picture.

• 36:37Bill Simmons?

  Me buddy.

• 36:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:39Bill Simmons?

  Ally disappears with Sam, comes home after two days.

• 36:42Speaker 01

  Incredible.

• 36:44Bill Simmons?

  Hedy gets super pissy about it. This seems amazing.

• 36:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:46Speaker 01

  Unbelievable.

• 36:47Bill Simmons?

  This is where it's like, alright, I gotta, maybe I'll go upstairs, see if Graham's home. I gotta figure out an exit plan right now.

• 36:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:53Bill Simmons?

  She's not in the lease.

• 36:54Speaker 01

  And we see stuff that, of course, Ally doesn't, including Hedy kicking Buddy. Terrible moment.

• 36:58Bill Simmons?

  By the way.

• 36:59Speaker 01

  Horrible moment.

• 37:00Bill Simmons?

  I, I had that in What's Aids The Worst.

• 37:02Speaker 01

  Awful.

• 37:02Bill Simmons?

  Didn't feel like CGI'd or anything.

• 37:05Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 37:06Bill Simmons?

  That felt like a straight puppy kick.

• 37:08Speaker 01

  Very upsetting.

• 37:09Speaker 02

  Do you feel like the actual Buddy took one from the team?

• 37:11Bill Simmons?

  Where was Peta?

• 37:12Speaker 01

  That's a live, great question.

• 37:13Bill Simmons?

  That dog was flying five feet.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  Very upsetting.

• 37:16Speaker 02

  We used to, we used to raise these dogs. These dogs are soft. No, I'm just joking now. Bullshit.

• 37:21Speaker 01

  Chair sex in that scene too, so.

• 37:23Speaker 02

  Chair sex is a great scene.

• 37:24Speaker 01

  Chair sex is great.

• 37:25Speaker 02

  Hey, can I be honest with you?

• 37:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:27Speaker 02

  Two beautiful bodies in this fucking scene, right?

• 37:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 37:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:30Speaker 02

  I don't remember seeing as much of Sam as you end up seeing in this movie in one particular part.

• 37:36Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You see some dick later, yeah.

• 37:38Speaker 02

  You see his balls hanging from between, like, his shit.

• 37:41Bill Simmons?

  He does the Douglas.

• 37:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh yeah, yep, some straight balls, that's right.

• 37:44Bill Simmons?

  Right around when Basic Instinct, I think Basic Instinct came out first. Maybe he was like, keep the balls in Douglas.

• 37:49Speaker 02

  What did I tell you?

• 37:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 37:50Speaker 02

  There was a white male butt competition that was going on.

• 37:54Bill Simmons?

  Needed to be balls of butt.

• 37:55Speaker 02

  It was a thing.

• 37:55Bill Simmons?

  Um, the next thing I wrote down was, the masturbation scene right into everyone having eggs.

• 38:02Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 38:03Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 38:03Bill Simmons?

  This movie's amazing.

• 38:04Speaker 01

  Great stuff, yep.

• 38:05Bill Simmons?

  What a fake-out on the masturbation scene. You think she's riding some dude she met, does the rollover. I did, the first time I saw it, I thought she was having sex with somebody, and then she does the rollover, and it's like, oh, she's by herself.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  I thought clearly, I think the fact that the positioning is like she...

• 38:23Bill Simmons?

  She looks like she's riding somebody.

• 38:24Speaker 01

  Well, she is trying to approximate the idea of being with somebody, right?

• 38:29Bill Simmons?

  Or maybe approximating what she saw when she...

• 38:32Speaker 01

  Well, that's the thing. The fact that she has just gone and like brought Sam a post-coital soda, and he's like naked in bed. Ally has gotten up to get a drink.

• 38:42Bill Simmons?

  The room at least has a smell of sex I'm missing.

• 38:44Speaker 01

  No question. No question. She gives Ally a kiss on the cheek very deliberate. She's trying to like soak up any aspect of that that she can. And then she

• 38:54Bill Simmons?

  Then has to go.

• 38:54Speaker 01

  Goes to masturbate. So I think it was like very clear that she was masturbating because she wants to fuck Sam and she wants to fuck Ally. She wants to be in that relationship with them. The fact that she is in that position when Ally first sees her before turning over. Do either of you watch Shorzy? You don't, right? I've tried to get you to watch Shorzy. Incredible show. Please watch it. The most recent season of Shorzy has an iconic opening scene where one of the characters, Ted Hitchcock, who they call Ten Inch Cock, uh, is masturbating in that exact position and there's like legitimately a 15 minute conversation about how most people masturbate. I can't recommend it to you highly enough. It is so funny and so good. So that was on my mind watching this. But of course, the best part of this is that Buddy yelps.

• 39:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Well, he's horrified. Buddy yelps. Well Buddy, Buddy's like, what did I get into?

• 39:42Speaker 01

  The body's just unbelievable.

• 39:45Speaker 02

  I always thought that Buddy was yelping because he saw his second mom masturbating. That's not why Buddy yelped. Buddy yelped because he was yelping at Ally. What the fuck are you doing?

• 39:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, get out of here.

• 39:54Speaker 02

  Get the fuck out of here.

• 39:55Speaker 01

  Well, he's like, give her some privacy?

• 39:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's like, he's like, you don't see mom? Mom is working it right now. Get the fuck out of here. Why would you hear that and then walk over to the goddamn door? I'm telling you.

• 40:05Speaker 01

  It's a good question.

• 40:05Speaker 02

  Ally is the villain of this movie. Why would you walk towards your roommate? If they're fucking or if they're masturbating?

• 40:12Bill Simmons?

  She's just having a private moment.

• 40:13Speaker 01

  Hetty knew that she would. That's why she left the door open, right?

• 40:16Bill Simmons?

  Listen, I can't let this moment go by without getting Ben's take on the top five face down masturbation scenes in movies.

• 40:22Speaker 02

  Aw shit.

• 40:23Speaker 01

  She is.

• 40:24Speaker 02

  Face down masturbation?

• 40:25Speaker 01

  I feel if anyone is prepared to go off the dome with this one, it's you.

• 40:28Bill Simmons?

  That might have been the only one.

• 40:30Speaker 02

  I can't think of another one.

• 40:31Speaker 01

  Again, I'll direct you to Shorzy.

• 40:33Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 40:34Bill Simmons?

  I don't ever remember seeing that in a movie before.

• 40:36Speaker 02

  Face down, because the face down.

• 40:37Bill Simmons?

  Obviously her thing.

• 40:39Speaker 02

  What?

• 40:40Bill Simmons?

  It's just like. The face downer.

• 40:41Speaker 02

  Hetty's thing?

• 40:42Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, like being, being.

• 40:43Speaker 02

  She's dominating herself.

• 40:45Bill Simmons?

  You don't, yeah.

• 40:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. You like that?

• 40:47Bill Simmons?

  I'm just saying. I hadn't seen the movie. I feel like it invented it. Uh, leading to the eggs. And Hetty just being a little suffocating. Come on buddy, three's a crowd.

• 40:58Speaker 01

  Three's a crowd, buddy.

• 40:59Bill Simmons?

  And Bridget Fonda, who's a really good bitch. It's like, he's fine, Hetty. Like just like coming through. So anyway, you know, it's time for Buddy to die, which leads us to a non-rewatchable scene. The murder of Buddy.

• 41:15Speaker 01

  Horrible.

• 41:16Bill Simmons?

  The second worst thing to ever happen to a dog in a movie. You know what the first one is, right?

• 41:20Speaker 02

  No, what happened?

• 41:21Bill Simmons?

  When Michael Douglas's Fatal Attraction character fed spaghetti and meatballs to his dog that had been alone for two days. The most single violated I've ever seen Mallory.

• 41:29Speaker 01

  Terrible.

• 41:30Bill Simmons?

  On a rewatch.

• 41:30Speaker 02

  Oh, no, I was thinking about the rabbit.

• 41:32Speaker 01

  The rap.

• 41:33Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 41:33Speaker 01

  Boiling the bunny.

• 41:35Bill Simmons?

  Boiling the bunny, whatever, the bunny just died. Feeding your dog spaghetti and meatballs, the diarrhea.

• 41:41Speaker 01

  Terrible.

• 41:41Bill Simmons?

  Recipe the dog hadn't eaten or gone out in two days is the worst thing that's ever happened.

• 41:45Speaker 01

  TV, not movie, but what about when Tom has to pull pantyhose out of Mondale's ass in Succession? Remember that?

• 41:53Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah. Well, we.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  That was very upsetting to you.

• 41:55Bill Simmons?

  We talked a lot about Mondale, the most neglected dog in TV or movie history.

• 42:00Speaker 02

  By the way, right now for pets, we in the dirt. We in the dirt right now for pets. Pets are being killed for.

• 42:08Speaker 01

  I can't handle it.

• 42:09Speaker 02

  And like fucking like.

• 42:10Speaker 01

  I'm very worried about Supergirl. I'm very worried about crypto and Supergirl.

• 42:14Speaker 02

  Crypto has been victimized twice. He was victimized in Superman, victimized in Supergirl.

• 42:18Speaker 01

  Well, the plot of Supergirl seems to be, oh, the Punisher thing was awful.

• 42:21Speaker 02

  The Punisher thing at the beginning of the movie, I'm watching it, Punisher last killed Bill. You won't see it. You haven't seen it. It's a special presentation on Disney Plus.

• 42:29Speaker 01

  John Wick, I mean.

• 42:31Speaker 02

  John Wick, John Wick, I feel like ushered into this kill the dog for the plot of the thing. Kind of.

• 42:39Bill Simmons?

  You know what?

• 42:39Speaker 01

  This is the new fridging?

• 42:41Speaker 02

  The new fridging is the killing of the pet.

• 42:43Bill Simmons?

  You know why? Because a lot of people out there care more about pets than humans.

• 42:45Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, I mean, I do.

• 42:46Bill Simmons?

  So if you kill, if you kill somebody's dog in the beginning of the movie, you want revenge more than if you killed like their wife or something.

• 42:52Speaker 02

  Right.

• 42:53Bill Simmons?

  People are weird.

• 42:54Speaker 02

  Especially the cut of the pit.

• 42:55Bill Simmons?

  I also had the puppy murder as the okay motherfucker award for when this movie just goes up a notch.

• 43:01Speaker 02

  Right.

• 43:01Speaker 01

  It's so.

• 43:02Bill Simmons?

  They're coming home, there's a fucking dead gold retriever in pool of blood.

• 43:06Speaker 01

  Horrible.

• 43:06Bill Simmons?

  And it's like, oh, okay.

• 43:08Speaker 01

  Horrible.

• 43:09Bill Simmons?

  We're ratcheting up. Small scene devastated Hedy, devastated Hedy hits on Sam.

• 43:16Speaker 01

  Hmm, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, weird scene.

• 43:18Bill Simmons?

  Gives the hug and then a little more. Sam's thinking about it for about a second and a half.

• 43:23Speaker 01

  Sam's a dog.

• 43:24Speaker 02

  Hey, in the book, in the book, Sam and Hedy actually have sex and Ally catches them.

• 43:31Bill Simmons?

  Is that true?

• 43:31Speaker 02

  That's true, in the book.

• 43:33Bill Simmons?

  Well, we know Sam went to visit his ex-wife and couldn't make it an hour.

• 43:36Speaker 02

  Right, because Sam, and by the way, I gotta say something to Sam, man. I gotta say something about Sam.

• 43:41Bill Simmons?

  But he's dead, so he's not listening.

• 43:42Speaker 02

  I apologize, Sam, it shouldn't have happened to you, it was accident, it was accident, seriously. Sam, just his explanation for having, for fucking his ex-wife, Sam didn't even fucking try.

• 43:53Speaker 01

  No.

• 43:53Speaker 02

  Sam, no, he the man, Sam, like, she, she calls him out.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  It's the anniversary of our divorce, she was upset.

• 43:58Speaker 02

  She was upset, what the fuck do you want me to do?

• 44:00Speaker 01

  So I fucked her.

• 44:01Speaker 02

  Hey, what, what do you want me to do? I go over there, we got divorced, I feel like it was, what do you want me to do? I thought, so what, people make mistakes.

• 44:08Speaker 01

  Am I supposed to not fuck her?

• 44:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:11Speaker 01

  The craziest part about that to me is that the bulk of the, like, attempt at reconciliation from there for Sam is, or, and honestly, Ally's reception of it too, is really oriented around the idea of like, well, it's scary to me that you, that I wouldn't have known, that you wouldn't have told me. It's much more about him not telling her than the fact that he fucks his ex-wife the day that he's in bed with her, saying, oh, can we go kick out the engagement ring?

• 44:37Speaker 02

  And, and by the way, Sam didn't even try that bitch line.

• 44:41Speaker 01

  No.

• 44:41Speaker 02

  So like, Sam didn't, hey, hey, baby, I don't know, that bitch lying, that never happened, prove it, prove it, it's my word against hers, I divorced her, she crazy. Sam didn't even try.

• 44:50Bill Simmons?

  Why would I have done that, I'm here with you right now.

• 44:52Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 44:53Speaker 02

  You say that I'm gonna have sex with her, then come back and plan a life with you?

• 44:57Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 44:57Speaker 02

  She's fucking crazy.

• 44:58Speaker 01

  You just answered the phone, she knows you're here, she's saying it on purpose.

• 45:02Speaker 02

  She's trying to put this on the message, she's trying to break us up, this is what they do.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  Sam, very lazy.

• 45:08Speaker 02

  Didn't even try.

• 45:09Bill Simmons?

  Honestly, I liked it, he knew Ally was kind of a pushover.

• 45:13Speaker 02

  Right.

• 45:13Bill Simmons?

  And he was getting away with it, huge power play by him.

• 45:15Speaker 02

  He was kind of on his own solo shit a little bit.

• 45:17Speaker 01

  A little bit?

• 45:18Speaker 02

  A little bit.

• 45:18Speaker 04

  And then he was gonna go tell Ally, hey, Hedy gave me a blowjob, just letting you know.

• 45:22Speaker 01

  He was.

• 45:22Speaker 02

  This, this is so crazy.

• 45:24Bill Simmons?

  Can you believe what Hedy did?

• 45:26Speaker 02

  He knew, he says, I'm gonna tell her, my, my dog, how could you tell her?

• 45:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 45:31Speaker 02

  I like, you nutted, dog.

• 45:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, 25 seconds, timed it.

• 45:35Speaker 02

  She comes, we can get to it.

• 45:37Bill Simmons?

  Wait, we gotta wait on that one.

• 45:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:39Bill Simmons?

  I have the, uh, That would, how would Van Lathan get out of this one? Should be changed to how would Sam get out of this one?

• 45:45Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 45:46Bill Simmons?

  Hey, come on, it was our anniversary. Right.

• 45:48Speaker 01

  What was I gonna do, not fucker? Yes, incredible.

• 45:50Bill Simmons?

  Which we talked about right into the snooping scene.

• 45:53Speaker 01

  Into the shoebox, yeah. Uh huh.

• 45:55Bill Simmons?

  I just wanna say, and this is another great, this movie has 15 great movie tropes.

• 46:01Speaker 01

  Oh, right.

• 46:01Bill Simmons?

  I love when our deranged future at the end of the movie is gonna be a killer. Keeps a collection of all of their stuff from their life. Fatal Texting did this too. It's like, I'm not really crazy, but it's super easy to find a roadmap to how crazy I am. Always newspaper clippings.

• 46:20Speaker 01

  All the incriminating evidence is in one place and it's not even locked. And I left it on my bed and then I threw a wet towel on it so you know I didn't want you to see it. So you definitely go back and look later.

• 46:31Bill Simmons?

  Not even hiding the shoebox, there's no sweater over it.

• 46:33Speaker 01

  Crazy, crazy.

• 46:34Bill Simmons?

  It's like, shoebox, evidence, like a big name tag on it. I love it.

• 46:41Bill Simmons?

  My favorite scene that's also the most frustrating scene in the movie is the sex club.

• 46:46Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 46:46Bill Simmons?

  Which features Ally just walking 12 feet behind, um, Hetty for blocks on end, not worried that Hetty's gonna turn around and see her.

• 46:56Speaker 01

  It's not even just 12 feet behind. The best part of it is that then Hetty goes down the stairs.

• 47:01Bill Simmons?

  And is looking at her.

• 47:02Speaker 01

  Which means she can literally see.

• 47:04Bill Simmons?

  She's the worst spy ever. All of a sudden we're playing Enigma, which is big horny music. Enigma and Enya were the two horny music things.

• 47:15Bill Simmons?

  And we have this sex club.

• 47:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:17Bill Simmons?

  There's like, I guess a live sex show happening or something? There's people in cages.

• 47:23Speaker 01

  Yes. Yeah, it's like a BDSM club.

• 47:25Bill Simmons?

  We're there for 38 seconds.

• 47:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:27Bill Simmons?

  And it's like, this is, what else is gonna happen in this club? Hetty's having a drink pretending she's Ally.

• 47:33Speaker 01

  Right, using her name.

• 47:34Bill Simmons?

  And then we're just gone, we're back in the apartment. It's like, can I have like six more minutes here?

• 47:37Speaker 02

  Well, you get one thing that's very important is Ally gets appro, Ally gets approached.

• 47:42Speaker 01

  Right.

• 47:42Speaker 02

  Bye lady.

• 47:43Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 47:44Speaker 02

  Continuing the very present.

• 47:48Speaker 02

  LGBT subtext that exists in this movie, which is the same-sex attraction thing that they keep playing with. Is this obsession not sexual? Is this obsession sexual? Ally in rebuffing the lady, basically reiterates to the audience that she not down for that type of shit. She not lickety-split, right?

• 48:07Speaker 01

  Right.

• 48:07Speaker 02

  So she's because.

• 48:08Bill Simmons?

  That lady was also kinda scary.

• 48:10Speaker 02

  That lady was kinda scary.

• 48:11Speaker 01

  Quite. You wanna play? No, I don't.

• 48:13Bill Simmons?

  She was like.

• 48:13Speaker 01

  At least not with you.

• 48:15Speaker 02

  By the way, filmed at a club. This will be for Mallory and I. Filmed at a club, not, come on, guys. Filmed at like, filmed at a, filmed at a club. Name of the club? The Hellfire Club.

• 48:24Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 48:25Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 48:25Speaker 01

  Shout out Stranger Things.

• 48:26Bill Simmons?

  That's where this was.

• 48:27Speaker 01

  Dungeons and Dragons.

• 48:28Bill Simmons?

  I was looking for the name of the club. I just had more questions. I wanted to be there longer. What happens there? Is there like private rooms?

• 48:36Speaker 01

  I bet.

• 48:36Bill Simmons?

  Are there mattresses?

• 48:37Speaker 01

  No question.

• 48:38Bill Simmons?

  What else is going on?

• 48:39Speaker 02

  Right.

• 48:39Bill Simmons?

  And then why would Hedy know about? Hedy, this is the one scene I don't feel like adds up with Hedy. She's like this socially awkward librarian who, all of a sudden is at this sex club where everybody knows her.

• 48:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, because notoriously, no one has ever lives a life in the day.

• 48:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 48:58Speaker 02

  And then that life is incongruent with what they do when they.

• 49:01Bill Simmons?

  I'm not saying that.

• 49:02Speaker 04

  It just feels like they cut out a scene.

• 49:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, maybe, yeah, I can see.

• 49:05Bill Simmons?

  I just felt like the way they presented her was incongruous with her just waltzing into this club.

• 49:10Speaker 04

  There was no follow-up to it. Like, is she, is she in that world? Does she participate in the BDSM stuff? Why is she there?

• 49:16Speaker 01

  I think that, that question is, kinda works, actually. Because it's like, to, to your point, you can believe that she's maybe always had this secret life and the like, I showed up in my frock with my frizzy hair and convinced you that I was just this like bumpkin is an act? Or you can believe that she was that person and has been that person.

• 49:38Bill Simmons?

  The entire time and was playing a part of Hedy?

• 49:41Speaker 01

  Well, that's what she puts on Ally's skin. It allows her to go do this thing that she has maybe wanted to do.

• 49:47Bill Simmons?

  How would she know about that club?

• 49:49Speaker 02

  Bill. And it's like New York.

• 49:50Bill Simmons?

  Knew her in there.

• 49:51Speaker 02

  New York's sex club.

• 49:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:53Bill Simmons?

  I know, but I'm just saying, I felt like I'm missing a scene.

• 49:56Speaker 02

  Do you think that the movie, I, I, I can see what you guys are saying with that. Do you feel like the movie, though, over the course of a couple of scenes, is hinting that there's something more to her? Meaning, she's clearly trying to seduce Sam. She's standing there in her, in her panties, right?

• 50:10Bill Simmons?

  That's where I'm getting that.

• 50:10Speaker 01

  I needed one more with this.

• 50:12Speaker 02

  Right, and then you also see that she tries to kiss him before, that there is some part of her that isn't as safe and mousy and non-sexual as what we think, that there's more to her and she's been able to hide it before.

• 50:23Bill Simmons?

  I think Sam steps in. I do, I think, I don't think he's able to resist.

• 50:28Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, and as she says, men are dogs, right, and Sam certainly is. I think that the fact that we know definitively, there are questions about Hetty, we'll get to them in some of the unanswerable questions, maybe, and including like the, the original trauma, what happened, she's Ellen, what happened to Judy, the other twin. But, you know, she has this like line about, well, my parents, like the, the last, you know, the girl in Tampa called them two. In the shoebox, the, the newspaper clippings that you mentioned, like some of it is about the twin who drowned, but there are newspaper clippings in there about automobile accidents. My read on this is that there is a long trail of dead bodies and lives.

• 51:06Bill Simmons?

  Well, the Western Union lady says that.

• 51:08Speaker 01

  Right.

• 51:08Bill Simmons?

  She's like, oh, you're always a different person.

• 51:10Speaker 01

  You're a different person, so I think that the sexual, I'm sorry, that's, that blowjob is delivered by a person who has given some blowjobs, for sure. Like Hetty is a sexual person, and so part of it is like, she is mentally ill.

• 51:24Bill Simmons?

  Face down masturbator.

• 51:26Speaker 02

  Right, face down masturbator.

• 51:27Speaker 01

  She's experimenting with not only different motions, but different modes of pressure, right? Good for her, get to know your own body, but.

• 51:34Speaker 01

  Why not? Try new things, find out what works for you, you know? She is mentally ill, right? There's like a lot of, you know, actual scholarship and then like half-assed internet scholarship about what actually, like what affliction. Does she have? Borderline personality disorder. What is going on? What sort of sociopathic tendencies are here?

• 51:57Bill Simmons?

  She had separation with her twin sister that she'd never like solved.

• 52:02Speaker 01

  Well, let me ask you guys a kind of fundamental question then.

• 52:04Bill Simmons?

  She's trying to replace her sister.

• 52:05Speaker 01

  Did she kill her sister? And then has lived with that regret?

• 52:09Bill Simmons?

  I think she accidentally killed her.

• 52:11Speaker 01

  You think it was on purpose?

• 52:12Speaker 02

  I think she killed her, she didn't try to.

• 52:14Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 52:14Speaker 02

  And so, but although, although.

• 52:16Speaker 01

  I thought we know.

• 52:18Speaker 04

  At the end, they say in the voiceover.

• 52:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, but although.

• 52:21Speaker 01

  Well, they say her parents tried to tell her it wasn't her fault, but that doesn't mean it wasn't.

• 52:24Speaker 02

  Right. At the same time, though, there is a part where she is talking to Ally. And she is talking about the fact that in a way she resented her sister.

• 52:32Speaker 01

  Yes, for leaving her.

• 52:33Speaker 02

  She's, but she says one twin is always sort of prettier.

• 52:36Speaker 01

  Exactly. The other one does the hard work.

• 52:38Speaker 02

  The other one does the hard work. So there did seem to be some animus between her and her sister that would like need to motivate and intend.

• 52:44Speaker 01

  I think it's definitely possible. There's a really valid read that it was an accident. And then she, or something happened in that moment that then set her down the course of doing this stuff on purpose from there, which is what the ending of the movie positions Ally to be, right? This thing happened that was not of her design. But then she's got like the cross, the split face photo and she's like, maybe Ally's the sociopath moving forward now. But I think because of that line that you quoted, the idea that the one twin is always prettier, there's this covetous aspect right away. My canon is that she killed her twin on purpose. It doesn't mean she didn't then miss her or regret her and spend her entire life trying to fill that void. But the jealousy and the longing are inextricable for her.

• 53:28Bill Simmons?

  It's like the JFK assassination.

• 53:30Speaker 01

  Unanswerable question.

• 53:32Bill Simmons?

  Our next scene.

• 53:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:37Speaker 01

  The blowjob.

• 53:41Speaker 01

  It's a great, like the hip is, the hip is elevated to like, yeah, amazing.

• 53:46Speaker 02

  So I have thoughts here.

• 53:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:48Speaker 02

  Number one, the first thing I have to say is. This leads me to believe that Ally isn't sucking enough dick. And I'll tell you.

• 53:56Bill Simmons?

  Well, because you wouldn't know.

• 53:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:58Bill Simmons?

  You wouldn't know it was Ally just from the top of her head.

• 54:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 54:02Bill Simmons?

  But she's doing something a little extra special.

• 54:04Speaker 01

  Different technique at a minimum.

• 54:06Speaker 02

  She does different technique. Whoa, whoa. You at least mention it, you'd be huh. What the fuck, baby? What's good? And then you go, you look down and go, oh shit, that's not you.

• 54:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:15Speaker 02

  But he doesn't really do that.

• 54:18Speaker 01

  Well, he kind of does. He's like, Ally?

• 54:22Speaker 02

  But at the same time, he, like, look.

• 54:25Bill Simmons?

  No, it's heady.

• 54:27Speaker 02

  It's heady. And then.

• 54:31Speaker 04

  Why do you think they call me heady, Sam?

• 54:33Speaker 01

  Incredible.

• 54:34Speaker 02

  He has the clear chance to opt out. A clear chance to opt out and he goes.

• 54:40Speaker 04

  Well, that's the question.

• 54:40Speaker 02

  We're on that ride.

• 54:42Bill Simmons?

  There's no question.

• 54:43Speaker 02

  There's no question at all.

• 54:44Bill Simmons?

  He rides this to the end.

• 54:47Speaker 02

  And then afterwards, he legitimately watched the scene. He turns over and does the shameful after sex pose.

• 54:53Speaker 01

  No question.

• 54:54Speaker 02

  Where you, where you.

• 54:55Speaker 01

  Fetal position of shame.

• 54:56Speaker 02

  Fetal position. You turn over and grab it like you're ashamed. He does that.

• 54:59Bill Simmons?

  This is one of the best scenes of the 90s. Craig, what was your react? Did you watch it with Liz?

• 55:03Speaker 04

  I did. Yes.

• 55:05Bill Simmons?

  What was your reaction?

• 55:06Speaker 04

  Um, I would love to know how many relationships ended right after the movie when the guy driving home went, well, I mean, he was pretty close to finishing. Like, it's kind of hard to stop. Like, you don't know what it feels like. Like, what's it's building? What are you gonna do?

• 55:20Bill Simmons?

  Oh, my God. I mean, it's. I honestly, one of the best scenes of the 90s for me.

• 55:25Speaker 01

  It's incredible.

• 55:26Bill Simmons?

  It is. It's iconic. It's so fucking funny to watch it with somebody who hadn't seen it. I mean, I'm watching, obviously not a, not a scene I'd want to really watch with my daughter.

• 55:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:36Bill Simmons?

  Right? Not, wouldn't be in my top 10.

• 55:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:39Speaker 02

  But you did.

• 55:40Bill Simmons?

  No, I kind of went like this because I didn't want to pretend I was watching, but then as it unfolded, it was so fucking funny, my daughter and my wife reacting. And then leading to the whole, they have a great argument.

• 55:52Speaker 01

  Oh, it's amazing.

• 55:53Bill Simmons?

  It starts like escalating and it just leads to all of a sudden he's getting a shoe in the eyes. Guy's fucking done. What a last 10 minutes of life.

• 56:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, for him.

• 56:01Speaker 01

  Blown by somebody you thought was your girlfriend but wasn't, but you kinda went with it anyway.

• 56:05Bill Simmons?

  In the beginning, for sure. In the beginning, it did.

• 56:07Speaker 02

  In the beginning, when she first walks in, but guys, I just don't believe. After a certain point that you don't know.

• 56:15Bill Simmons?

  A hundred percent.

• 56:16Speaker 01

  Again, it is only twenty-five seconds, which is tough for Sam.

• 56:19Bill Simmons?

  So you timed this.

• 56:21Speaker 01

  Twenty-five seconds, very tough.

• 56:23Bill Simmons?

  But don't you think he got scared and excited that it was Hetty and that kind of got it going?

• 56:28Speaker 01

  Twenty-five second Sam, no nine-minute van, you know?

• 56:31Bill Simmons?

  Well, but not like. It's like eight minutes and thirty-five seconds.

• 56:33Speaker 02

  But I tell you guys, I tell you guys though, I tell you guys though, like he, it's just so funny that nine minutes is a Herculean.

• 56:40Bill Simmons?

  You put it out there.

• 56:41Speaker 02

  So, so.

• 56:42Bill Simmons?

  I said nine-minute van.

• 56:44Speaker 02

  That, the fact that she is so dope. We're talking about one of them ones, like a fucking Lacy Duvall, Pinky type of situation going on. Shout out to them and everything that they've contributed. But like, the fact that she's one of them ones like that, tell me, I'm not gonna go on, but like it.

• 57:03Speaker 01

  But you could.

• 57:05Speaker 02

  That makes sense that she was going to the sex club.

• 57:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, yes, exactly.

• 57:08Speaker 02

  That makes sense that she was going to the sex club, she really undercover freak.

• 57:11Speaker 01

  You see that blowjob and you know that she has, in how many different guises and disguises and assumed personas? She sucked some dick before, that is clear. There we go, Sam, the blue light, unbelievable stuff.

• 57:23Speaker 02

  Yo, by the way, I believe sincerely that Hetty has a ironclad self-defense case in the killing of Sam. Sam rushed her, I mean, it's not Florida where you could like, you know, do that five or six times.

• 57:43Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah, she definitely gets off.

• 57:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, in Florida.

• 57:45Bill Simmons?

  Although the prosecutor would be like, why did you go into Sam's room at three forty-five in the morning dressed as your roommate?

• 57:52Speaker 01

  And he's dead, he's got a still out of the eye, so he can't say, I was violated.

• 57:55Bill Simmons?

  Cause I, Sam called, he wanted to talk to Ally, she was asleep.

• 58:00Speaker 01

  And he said, have her surprise me.

• 58:03Bill Simmons?

  No, Sam said, why don't you come over?

• 58:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:06Bill Simmons?

  Mm-hmm. And I said, okay.

• 58:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, the cover story would, would be pretty easy to spin, for sure. Sam, the fact that he's expecting, because he said to Hetty, like, have her surprise me, that he's expecting Ally to show up. That Hetty has the haircut, that she's wearing the like shiny silver trench coat.

• 58:24Bill Simmons?

  One of the worst coats of the nineties, really awful.

• 58:28Speaker 01

  Their bodies are so radically different. Like, they're like, it's like a half a foot in height difference. The second she's up against him in bed, come on. You know that's not your girlfriend. The second she starts sucking your dick, you definitely know that's not your girlfriend.

• 58:44Speaker 02

  You gotta know.

• 58:44Speaker 01

  The technique is so different.

• 58:46Bill Simmons?

  I have a hot take. Greatest orgasm of Sam's life.

• 58:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I mean, there are worse ways to go. Worse ways to go.

• 58:53Bill Simmons?

  He's woken up the old fashioned way.

• 58:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:55Bill Simmons?

  Realizes that it's Hetty. He's kinda already been thinking about, maybe I should whip it in there one time and

• 59:00Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 59:00Bill Simmons?

  Here we go.

• 59:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 59:02Bill Simmons?

  And, and just really went with it.

• 59:04Speaker 01

  You sure did.

• 59:04Bill Simmons?

  Had a great time.

• 59:05Speaker 02

  So on the backside, that's not outrage. He's missed, taking out his misplaced guilt on her.

• 59:10Bill Simmons?

  Hundred percent.

• 59:11Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 59:11Bill Simmons?

  Because, as we said many times, could have stopped her.

• 59:16Speaker 02

  Could have stopped her.

• 59:16Bill Simmons?

  The moment he, no, it's Hetty.

• 59:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:18Bill Simmons?

  You're just rolling over like, what the fuck are you doing?

• 59:21Speaker 01

  Right.

• 59:21Bill Simmons?

  Did not do that.

• 59:22Speaker 01

  No, he didn't.

• 59:22Bill Simmons?

  He's like, huh.

• 59:23Speaker 01

  No, he didn't.

• 59:24Bill Simmons?

  Great to see you. Um, what a scene.

• 59:27Speaker 01

  Incredible stuff.

• 59:28Bill Simmons?

  Rewatchable scene of all time?

• 59:30Speaker 04

  There, there, I, I feel like I remember for, over the last few years, you pantomiming the scene of the guy who doesn't want to get the blowjob that he's getting. Is that from this movie or is there another movie where this happens? It is this. I couldn't remember if it was a previous movie we had already covered or if it's Single White Female.

• 59:47Bill Simmons?

  Um, I don't know what to do with the last rewatchable scene. We've already, we already know what one, but it's, there's a couple of different scenes when Hetty loses her mind.

• 59:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:58Bill Simmons?

  And, uh, I don't know. I like when she's about to kill Ally with the knife, Ally gets scared.

• 1:00:04Speaker 02

  Can we count the entire?

• 1:00:05Bill Simmons?

  I mean, it's basically a whole, one long scene.

• 1:00:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like thirty, forty minutes.

• 1:00:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:10Bill Simmons?

  So we all have the, the shoe scene is most rewatchable.

• 1:00:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:13Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  Has to be.

• 1:00:15Bill Simmons?

  What's the most nineteen ninety-two thing about this movie?

• 1:00:18Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:00:19Bill Simmons?

  I had eight entries, so what was your best one?

• 1:00:23Speaker 01

  I think, especially given the role it plays in the plot, landlines and answering machines. Like someone leaving you a message that plays aloud in your home. This is not a thing that happens.

• 1:00:33Bill Simmons?

  And also the "you have no messages."

• 1:00:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:00:36Bill Simmons?

  It was a very 90's.

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  And being able to, like, someone else just goes into your house, they play the tape, they rewind the tape. You know, they don't need your phone password to, like, hear your messages.

• 1:00:44Bill Simmons?

  Ben, what was your favorite 1992 thing?

• 1:00:46Speaker 02

  Um, they literally explain the internet, then use it.

• 1:00:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:50Speaker 02

  They literally go.

• 1:00:51Bill Simmons?

  Right, early.

• 1:00:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:00:52Speaker 02

  Like, yeah, they literally go, "Hey, you can book a flight." Which, by the way, I did not know that you could book a flight using the internet in 92. I did not know that you could do that.

• 1:00:59Bill Simmons?

  I'm positive he could.

• 1:01:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, they literally explain the internet, then they use it.

• 1:01:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:04Speaker 02

  Also, at the end, boiler rooms in movies.

• 1:01:08Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, for sure.

• 1:01:09Speaker 02

  This was a thing that used to exist all the time, shit would happen in the boiler room. It would be a big boiler room situation. I just don't see as many fucking boiler rooms in movies. I guess horror movies, kinda.

• 1:01:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:17Speaker 02

  Boiler room, got boiler room in a movie.

• 1:01:18Speaker 01

  A dial-up modem sound, too, on the internet front. That's just, that takes you back, that's great.

• 1:01:23Speaker 02

  This depiction of also these New York apartments, like, this reminds me, like, remember the apartment in Rounders? We rerun Rounders and we go, "Look at that apartment, she gotta be way the fuck up."

• 1:01:32Bill Simmons?

  I have Enigma.

• 1:01:35Bill Simmons?

  Finding a roommate in a newspaper.

• 1:01:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, classified ads, for sure.

• 1:01:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:01:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:01:39Bill Simmons?

  Erasing an answering machine message as a plot device.

• 1:01:42Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:01:44Bill Simmons?

  Theory of the internet stuff, and I, just seeing old-school email, like, when they show the computer when she's making the, uh, airplane trip, just felt very 92. But that, for me, the most 1992 thing is Bridgette Fonda. Just like her with this and singles at the same time, just feels very rooted in that year to me.

• 1:02:02Speaker 01

  More so than snail mail, someone mailing you keys.

• 1:02:05Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that too.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  People don't really use the postal service anymore.

• 1:02:07Speaker 02

  Would Bridgette Fonda make the top five Gen X darlings of the 90s?

• 1:02:11Bill Simmons?

  She'd have to.

• 1:02:11Speaker 02

  Hundred, thousand percent. Who would they be? It would be Winona Ryder, it would be Bridget Fonda.

• 1:02:16Bill Simmons?

  Oh, Winona's.

• 1:02:17Speaker 02

  Winona's is the number one.

• 1:02:19Bill Simmons?

  Multiple lists.

• 1:02:19Speaker 01

  That's a great one.

• 1:02:20Speaker 02

  Winona is the number one Gen X darling queen, without a doubt.

• 1:02:24Bill Simmons?

  I think Ethan, Ethan, are we going male FEMA or just?

• 1:02:27Speaker 02

  You can go male if you want to.

• 1:02:28Bill Simmons?

  Cause I think Ethan Hawke is like, you think Gen X, you think Ethan Hawke.

• 1:02:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, Ethan Hawke is there. I mean, we're really just doing the cast of reality bites.

• 1:02:36Bill Simmons?

  No, I'm just saying, like, when you think Gen X, it's those two movies and.

• 1:02:40Speaker 02

  Right. But Bridget Fonda would have to be in there because Singles is one of those films as well. But she definitely would be.

• 1:02:46Bill Simmons?

  I would say, I would have Josh Hamilton in Kicking and Screaming, like, that feels like distinct to me. But then all the music from back then would be the other one.

• 1:02:53Speaker 04

  John Cusack?

• 1:02:55Speaker 02

  Without a doubt.

• 1:02:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he's more late eighties.

• 1:02:56Speaker 02

  You don't think so?

• 1:02:57Bill Simmons?

  I think he's late eighties.

• 1:02:59Speaker 02

  Oh, okay. I would, I would have, I would have put him up there, but I guess.

• 1:03:01Speaker 04

  I have a 1992 thing.

• 1:03:03Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:03Speaker 04

  Taking a Polaroid of your roommate candidates?

• 1:03:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:06Speaker 04

  So you know what they look like?

• 1:03:08Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:03:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:09Speaker 04

  Is just insane to me, making them pose like you're at TSA. It's crazy.

• 1:03:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, that is weird.

• 1:03:17Bill Simmons?

  Oh, we're gonna take a break and then do the Floyd Gondole Award. This episode is brought to by Ethos. As a parent, life insurance feels like a no brainer. It just gives me peace of mind knowing my family will be taken care of. And Ethos makes getting it fast and easy. Apply online in minutes. Get up to 3 million in coverage with no medical exam, just a few simple health questions. Take 10 minutes to get covered today with life insurance through Ethos. Get your free quote at ethos.com/rewatch. That is E T H O S dot com slash rewatch. Application times may vary, rates may vary. All right, the Floyd Gondole Butter on My Ass, Lollipops in My Mouth Award for something I just enjoy.

• 1:04:02Bill Simmons?

  What do you have, Mel?

• 1:04:03Speaker 01

  So we already did the do I want to fuck you, kill you, or be you story? Which doesn't have to be two women like this, like Talented Mr. Ripley, right? Any movie that kind of orients around that idea. But because we already talked about that, I will throw out to you guys. Something that in a movie we don't enjoy would feel disqualifying, but when it's done well, I just fucking love even when it is so telegraphed and absurd. A Chekhov's TK list that is as tall as this New York apartment building. The air ducts, the incinerator, the elevator screwdriver, the stilettos. Every single object or aspect that is going to prove crucial in the plot has like a blaring siren when it is presented to us. It is undeniable that it will play a role in the climax of the film. And then they all do.

• 1:04:49Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:04:49Speaker 01

  All of them. And it shouldn't work, but I love it. I just enjoy it. Chekhov sex. That's mine.

• 1:04:58Speaker 02

  I love crazy women in movies, man.

• 1:05:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:02Speaker 02

  I love crazy women in movies. The crazier the better. Fatal Attraction, single white female, a thin line between love and hate. There's never been a crazy woman in the movie that I have not enjoyed. And I especially like it.

• 1:05:19Bill Simmons?

  This is the Lifetime motto of crazy women and crazy ex-husbands or boyfriends.

• 1:05:26Speaker 02

  Ripley is kind of in there. He's in that because there's a scene in Ripley to me where he's dressed up like him.

• 1:05:33Bill Simmons?

  And he's. Oh, he's like dancing in the.

• 1:05:37Speaker 02

  Juvah comes in, he's like, what the fuck are you doing?

• 1:05:39Speaker 01

  Incredible movie.

• 1:05:40Speaker 02

  Funny, but I love it. And I especially love the scene where the characters no longer play like that woman isn't crazy anymore.

• 1:05:47Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:05:47Speaker 02

  Hey, get you out of your fucking mind. I love it. So like this movie to me is the, the energy is everybody finding out that she's crazy. And her no longer caring about trying to hide the fact that she is deeply, deeply disturbed.

• 1:06:04Bill Simmons?

  There's been 40 years of these movies, really starting with Fatal Attraction. And I think I've seen 99.8% of them.

• 1:06:10Speaker 01

  I would have guessed 100%.

• 1:06:12Bill Simmons?

  Even like when Hilary Swank made hers.

• 1:06:15Speaker 02

  Which one was hers?

• 1:06:16Bill Simmons?

  She was the one when she, she was the one night affair.

• 1:06:20Speaker 02

  I don't think I've seen this.

• 1:06:21Bill Simmons?

  It's a black couple. I can't remember who the actors are.

• 1:06:24Speaker 02

  You're talking about, it just came out.

• 1:06:25Bill Simmons?

  It came out like two years ago.

• 1:06:27Speaker 02

  Two, three years ago. No, I didn't, I didn't get a chance to watch it. Kalika went saw it, I didn't see it though. Yeah.

• 1:06:31Bill Simmons?

  They make it every year. They just put different actors in it and it works every time.

• 1:06:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:36Bill Simmons?

  Um, my Floyd Gondoli.

• 1:06:40Bill Simmons?

  When a movie or TV character has an inexplicably incredible apartment that becomes a character in the thing. So this apartment wins the Den of Thieves Benihana scene stealing location.

• 1:06:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:06:51Bill Simmons?

  It also wins the Amanda Dobbins Award for Best Piece of Real Estate. And it's used in a great way. And I was thinking like the best apartments in movies. We just did this with Ghostbusters.

• 1:07:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:01Bill Simmons?

  That was a good one.

• 1:07:01Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:07:02Bill Simmons?

  Debby Ware's Prada.

• 1:07:03Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. Yeah.

• 1:07:04Bill Simmons?

  Um, her apartment's great in Hathaways. And then Ghost has a really good one.

• 1:07:08Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. Sure.

• 1:07:10Bill Simmons?

  All New York City. But there, there's been some good ones over the years, but this is a good one because I really feel, like I said before about the

• 1:07:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:07:17Bill Simmons?

  Where you never know where you are in the apartment, I think really helps the movie.

• 1:07:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:07:21Bill Simmons?

  So there's never lights on.

• 1:07:22Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:07:23Bill Simmons?

  Always like dimly lit and creepy.

• 1:07:24Speaker 02

  Always natural light. There's another good one too, that I always loved as a kid. When he finally starts to get money in big.

• 1:07:32Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, that's the best.

• 1:07:33Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  That's a, that's a great one.

• 1:07:35Speaker 02

  When he finally starts to get money in big, and then he puts all of that kidlike stuff in that apartment, that's like a fantastic.

• 1:07:41Speaker 01

  The bunk beds and the pop shot, I love that one.

• 1:07:43Speaker 02

  I looked up this apartment complex. So right now, um, you can, the, the cheapest apartment there is, uh, about $700,000. They go all the way up to $3.5 million. But if you want to rent, you can actually get an apartment at the Estonia, um, on the Upper West Side for $5,000 a month. Yep.

• 1:08:02Bill Simmons?

  Does it still have the incinerator? Cause that'd be a big thing for me.

• 1:08:04Speaker 01

  Is the screwdriver still on a string in the elevator?

• 1:08:07Speaker 02

  That $5,000 a month apartment?

• 1:08:09Speaker 01

  That's gonna be a pass.

• 1:08:10Speaker 02

  Is 574 square feet.

• 1:08:14Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, that's the thing about this set. You have like the basement, you have the whole apartment, you have the air vents, but their actual apartment, to your point, Bill, about like the, you know, I just enjoy it.

• 1:08:23Bill Simmons?

  She's like a struggling computer designer.

• 1:08:25Speaker 01

  It doesn't make any sense. And the cover of like the rent control and the history with the former business partner, and she inherited this place in their separation, which makes absolutely no sense. None of that, that's all just lamp shading to explain how she has this place and can't let it go.

• 1:08:41Speaker 02

  Why she can't leave, yeah.

• 1:08:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is. Absurd how large that apartment is.

• 1:08:46Bill Simmons?

  Well, the most famous TV example of this was the Friends apartment.

• 1:08:49Speaker 01

  Of course, yeah.

• 1:08:49Bill Simmons?

  Cause you have Monica and Rachel living there. Rachel's, both of them are scraping by. She's like a wannabe chef, Rachel's a waitress, and they have this like spectacular two-bedroom, tunnel light.

• 1:09:02Bill Simmons?

  Was there a better title for this movie, is a category we never do? I just wanted to flag this one because I think this is one of the best titles of the 90s.

• 1:09:11Speaker 01

  It's great.

• 1:09:11Bill Simmons?

  Single White Female is just an incredible title. You know exactly what the movie is. I think it got used in the years later, like Single White Female became like kind of a running joke. Like if you had a roommate, that turned out to be a little.

• 1:09:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's become a verb. It's like worked its way into the vernacular.

• 1:09:28Speaker 02

  It became an actual like psychotic.

• 1:09:31Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:31Speaker 02

  Thing. It became an actual thing.

• 1:09:32Bill Simmons?

  It's a shorthand for.

• 1:09:34Speaker 02

  Single White Female Syndrome.

• 1:09:35Bill Simmons?

  You know, somebody's roommate's nuts. What's aged the best, other than early 90s Bridget Fonda, just wearing cute outfits and various stages of dress for two hours?

• 1:09:45Speaker 02

  Uh, so I, A, I put killing, putting animals in danger for the sake of story.

• 1:09:49Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:09:49Speaker 02

  I mean, I.

• 1:09:50Bill Simmons?

  Wow, that's a direct attack.

• 1:09:52Speaker 02

  I have to say it aged the best. It didn't age well, but it aged the best because everybody is doing it now.

• 1:09:58Bill Simmons?

  Wait, can I, can I interrupt you on that one? Cause that was one of my What's Aged The Best? My wife's reaction every time there's some sort of pet murder or injury in a movie.

• 1:10:09Speaker 01

  Horrible.

• 1:10:10Bill Simmons?

  She's seen this movie 20 times and as soon as Buddy comes in, she's like, oh no.

• 1:10:14Speaker 02

  It's tough.

• 1:10:15Bill Simmons?

  Oh, like, it's like, you already know what's gonna happen. Why are you getting upset?

• 1:10:20Speaker 02

  Anyway, go ahead.

• 1:10:21Speaker 01

  Crushing.

• 1:10:22Speaker 02

  I gotta say this. Jim for Jason Lee is fine. Okay?

• 1:10:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, it looks great. She's great.

• 1:10:27Speaker 02

  Hedy's naked body.

• 1:10:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:30Speaker 02

  Has aged the best.

• 1:10:32Speaker 01

  Perky.

• 1:10:33Speaker 02

  Perky, bruh. Every time, like, I'm like, I'm watching the movie, I'm like, hmm, fuck. Aging the best is me realizing that Hedy's kind of my type.

• 1:10:45Speaker 02

  And I'm actually kind of fuck on Hedy. You know what I mean? There was, if like.

• 1:10:49Speaker 01

  That's all tracks.

• 1:10:50Speaker 02

  Does there need to be more black people in the movie? Yes, they needed a brother.

• 1:10:53Bill Simmons?

  What's not your type is a better question.

• 1:10:55Speaker 02

  That like on the, on the top floor, the next floor, that like, I don't know, he worked for UPS or something like that. This movie wouldn't have even existed.

• 1:11:02Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 1:11:02Speaker 02

  Cause he would have taken Hedy off of their hands. He'd have been hanging out with fucking Darius.

• 1:11:10Speaker 02

  Where's, where's Hedy at? Hedy up here, he would have said it to the, Hedy up here. You about to order some pizza, okay? Don't worry about where Hedy at. Like I, the war I watched this, I was like, yeah, man. Every time she was like taken off guard by Hedy. Like being naked, I was like, I want to be taken off guard a little bit more. She was doing her thing, man.

• 1:11:28Speaker 01

  She sure was.

• 1:11:29Bill Simmons?

  What do you have, Beth?

• 1:11:30Speaker 01

  I think we've hit most of them, just the, the roommate horror premise kind of paired with the erotic thriller framework. The two lead performances, the specificity of the haircut, we already talked about the haircut, but it's not just that Hedy gets Ally's haircut. And Ally has like a bob or something. This is the most specific cut and color. So that there's no way to get that cut and not tell Ally and us everything we need to know about this character. It's just such a perfect choice.

• 1:11:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, red hair and a distinct cut, the combo.

• 1:12:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh, I just, I didn't think you'd mind.

• 1:12:02Bill Simmons?

  By the way, not a, not a haircut that really took off either.

• 1:12:04Speaker 02

  Well, I have.

• 1:12:06Bill Simmons?

  This was not like Rachel and Friends.

• 1:12:08Speaker 02

  I have a rebuke of that and it's gonna be in recasting.

• 1:12:10Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:12:11Speaker 01

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:12:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:12Speaker 01

  I think Ally's fashion has aged quite well. It's like, it's kind of iconic. It's just fantastic, except for that one shiny coat. And yeah, not just like the apartment as a character, but this kind of vibe of New York as a setting. You have this like classic Upper West Side apartment building and this kind of like aspirational slice of life. But then you have the sex club, you have this idea of like a city where you can go to reinvent yourself. The fact that neither of them are from there is really perfect. Like they've both sorted it out for different reasons, it's all great.

• 1:12:43Bill Simmons?

  I have a, any scary movie within an incinerator?

• 1:12:46Speaker 01

  Terrible.

• 1:12:46Bill Simmons?

  The moment you see that thing, you just know shit's going down.

• 1:12:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:12:49Bill Simmons?

  My biggest thing though, uh. Peter Friedman is Graham, the cat-loving gay neighbor. Frank from Succession.

• 1:12:57Speaker 01

  I shouted at my TV.

• 1:12:58Bill Simmons?

  I was watching him going, where the fuck do I know this guy? And I'm just staring it down. And I realized when he said, you have my dick in your hand, Hetty, but I have yours in mine. Oh, no, that's, he didn't say that.

• 1:13:13Bill Simmons?

  I just can't believe this is Frank.

• 1:13:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, just picture Graham bald. It's Frank. There he is.

• 1:13:17Bill Simmons?

  Frank knew not to do bore on the floor.

• 1:13:19Speaker 01

  Sure did.

• 1:13:20Bill Simmons?

  So Carl, you fucking do bore on the floor. I'm gonna be over here.

• 1:13:22Speaker 01

  It's as good as TV ever got, man.

• 1:13:24Bill Simmons?

  But yeah, did you, so did you know that was Frank?

• 1:13:26Speaker 02

  Well, no, not at first. I looked up the character and then I saw.

• 1:13:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, not at first.

• 1:13:31Bill Simmons?

  Fucking Frank. I could have enjoyed Succession completely differently if I knew he was Graham.

• 1:13:35Speaker 01

  On your next sauna rewatch.

• 1:13:37Bill Simmons?

  That's the thing.

• 1:13:38Speaker 01

  You can think of Graham all the time.

• 1:13:41Bill Simmons?

  Great shot, Gordo Award, I think is the shot of her with the tape over her mouth when she's doing this as Hetty's like wreaking havoc behind, just the way they use. It's really legitimately scary for like five seconds.

• 1:13:53Speaker 02

  It is scary. I took the stiletto to the eye, though.

• 1:13:57Bill Simmons?

  Pretty good. I wish, I feel like CGI would have done a better job.

• 1:14:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's just, I have so many questions about the physics of that.

• 1:14:03Speaker 04

  I thought of, of when Ally is in the foreground and she's silhouetted and just, she's all black, but she's like taking off her clothes and then,

• 1:14:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:10Speaker 04

  and then Hetty comes up behind her and you can fully see Hetty, but Ally's in the front and all black and you can't see her.

• 1:14:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:15Speaker 04

  Fully silhouetted by the light. It's really good, actually.

• 1:14:18Bill Simmons?

  Look at you.

• 1:14:18Speaker 02

  You got an answer now? Oh, shit.

• 1:14:21Speaker 01

  Great one. It's great, great stuff. I, I like the way the end credits play over the taped-together photos of half of each of their faces. That's like a kind of tantalizing image to close on in terms of thinking about Ally's future from there.

• 1:14:38Bill Simmons?

  Craig, I'll let you take the Ches Rockwell and Brock Landers award for best character name since you made the joke last night.

• 1:14:43Speaker 04

  Hetty?

• 1:14:44Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, they knew what they were doing.

• 1:14:46Speaker 01

  Great stuff.

• 1:14:47Bill Simmons?

  Eddie.

• 1:14:47Speaker 01

  Eddie. Eddie.

• 1:14:48Bill Simmons?

  Eddie.

• 1:14:49Speaker 01

  That Rog review has a great quote about her name. Her name is Hedra Carlson. He didn't make a blowjob joke like Craig, but you know, that's why we need all of these different creative thinkers and then figures.

• 1:15:00Bill Simmons?

  That's why voices matter.

• 1:15:01Speaker 01

  She is played by Jennifer Jason Leigh as a sweet-faced, friendly little innocent. Those are the ones you have to look out for. I cannot find Hedra in my unabridged dictionary, and yet somehow the name teases me. Surely it is the name of a mythological beast that is in the actual Roger Ebert review, which I assume means he thought Hydra.

• 1:15:21Bill Simmons?

  Hydra?

• 1:15:21Speaker 01

  Incredible.

• 1:15:22Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:15:23Speaker 01

  Great stuff.

• 1:15:24Bill Simmons?

  Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happiness were best needle drop, obviously, Enigma.

• 1:15:28Speaker 01

  No question.

• 1:15:31Speaker 01

  No question. The subtitling on that is so good. Men singing Gregorian chant with disco drumbeat.

• 1:15:39Bill Simmons?

  Mallory of a Flex. You can skip it because I think you might have already done it.

• 1:15:44Speaker 01

  I did. I did the Rose from Titanic characters, Niki Sucks for Graham. Let's see, um.

• 1:15:50Bill Simmons?

  He really did suck.

• 1:15:51Speaker 01

  He did suck. Got some notes for Graham.

• 1:15:53Bill Simmons?

  And then he was just lying in the bathtub with his cat for two days.

• 1:15:56Speaker 01

  Poor Carmen.

• 1:15:57Bill Simmons?

  My wife and I were talking about that last week.

• 1:15:58Speaker 01

  That's a nitpice. Well, I think he's unconscious until then.

• 1:16:01Bill Simmons?

  Because we were like, would Murph lie in the bathtub with us if we were unconscious? Because Crazy Hetty knocked us out with a golf club.

• 1:16:07Speaker 01

  It's like a relief that Hetty didn't kill Carmen, the cat, but it's a different form of torment to like leave him there to feed off of Graham, who she thought she had killed. Very upsetting. I guess for like the, did this movie need a better sex scene? You know, we get a lot. We have Ally-Sam makeup chair sex at the hotel, which we already talked about. Sam and Ally fucking at the apartment, Ally seeing Hetty masturbating, the severe vibe shift into Mitch unbuttoning his pants because he thinks that he's about to get a blowjob as he is trying to rape Ally, the sex club, and then of course, the blowjob sequence, which we've already talked about, and then Ally kind of kissing Hetty at the end so that her throat isn't slit. So did we need anything beyond that? On the apartment front, this caught my eye on a rewatch.

• 1:16:51Speaker 01

  You guys notice the mirror above the bathtub?

• 1:16:55Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:16:55Speaker 01

  I think we could have availed ourselves of that in some way. Ally's taking a bath, Hetty comes in, it's uncomfortable, she's encroaching, she's going too far. She just wants to like offer to wash Ally's hair or something like that, but really she's looking in the mirror to try to see all the things she wants to see. Maybe she offers to just like wash her back. Where does the hand go? That scene fits perfectly in this movie. It does, and I think it sets up, to your point about like

• 1:17:19Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 1:17:20Speaker 01

  Single white female seeking single white female in a different way. The subtext is there already, so to make it more active text, I think. And also, I think we just could have gotten, there's plenty of Hetty voyeurism already, but a more like clear, how's the peepin', Tom? Hetty is just like watching through the crack in the door.

• 1:17:38Speaker 02

  Tommy.

• 1:17:39Bill Simmons?

  Tommy, Tommy, Tommy, Tommy.

• 1:17:41Speaker 02

  Tommy, Tommy.

• 1:17:42Speaker 01

  Sam and Ally's fuck.

• 1:17:43Speaker 02

  How's the peepin'?

• 1:17:43Speaker 01

  How's the peepin'?

• 1:17:44Bill Simmons?

  I have a note on the Mallory Rubin category, even though it's your category.

• 1:17:48Speaker 01

  Tell me.

• 1:17:49Bill Simmons?

  I don't, the chair sex scene, I don't know. Not enough light.

• 1:17:51Speaker 02

  We're fucking with it.

• 1:17:52Bill Simmons?

  It felt very like

• 1:17:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:54Bill Simmons?

  the intimacy coordinator was staging it. I just felt like very acted.

• 1:17:58Speaker 02

  That was before all that bullshit. We didn't have that then.

• 1:18:00Bill Simmons?

  I know, it just felt like

• 1:18:01Speaker 02

  Go for it.

• 1:18:02Bill Simmons?

  Bridgette Fonda, she's naked a few times in this movie, but not really.

• 1:18:05Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:18:06Bill Simmons?

  It's always like discreet, or she's covered, or whatever. It's like, you know what you signed up for.

• 1:18:13Speaker 01

  Incredible.

• 1:18:14Bill Simmons?

  What's Age the Worst?

• 1:18:16Speaker 01

  Oh, God.

• 1:18:16Bill Simmons?

  Listening to someone in a different apartment through an air vent.

• 1:18:19Speaker 02

  Tough.

• 1:18:20Speaker 01

  Crazy.

• 1:18:20Bill Simmons?

  Tough. Does anyone know, anyone that was ever able to do this in real life? Cause I don't.

• 1:18:25Speaker 01

  You know what, this was just used as a technique, I thought wonderfully, and sentimental value. Did you guys see this movie last year?

• 1:18:32Speaker 02

  I did.

• 1:18:33Speaker 01

  The Star Trek. Gorgeous film. So they had the like from upstairs, you could hear into the downstairs study. This comes up, this is a thing.

• 1:18:39Bill Simmons?

  This was a real action movie thriller device, though, for a decade.

• 1:18:43Speaker 01

  I think there's a giant nitpick here that we can hit later, but

• 1:18:46Speaker 02

  Wasn't there like a reality show about people in prison? Where they were talked to each other through their toilets or something like that?

• 1:18:53Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:18:54Speaker 02

  Was it, there's like love after lockup or something like that?

• 1:18:56Speaker 01

  Cause the sound is like traveling through the pipes.

• 1:18:59Speaker 02

  Through the toilets or something, whatever.

• 1:19:02Bill Simmons?

  I just don't know what your cable habits are.

• 1:19:04Speaker 02

  I apologize.

• 1:19:05Speaker 01

  Don't you?

• 1:19:07Bill Simmons?

  Ally's crazy silver purple raincoat.

• 1:19:09Speaker 01

  Horrible.

• 1:19:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:19:10Bill Simmons?

  There was no era where this coat made sense.

• 1:19:12Speaker 01

  Awful.

• 1:19:13Bill Simmons?

  Headed kicking the puppy.

• 1:19:15Speaker 01

  Terrible.

• 1:19:16Bill Simmons?

  The, we mentioned the early nineties sexual harassers in movies were just the most over the top version of them.

• 1:19:22Speaker 01

  I have a related What's Age the Worst for this.

• 1:19:24Bill Simmons?

  The guy from Groundhog Day, I don't know what.

• 1:19:25Speaker 04

  They ruined Ned Ryerson from Groundhog.

• 1:19:26Speaker 01

  I know, come on. Tough.

• 1:19:28Bill Simmons?

  Ned Ryerson is just like a maniac.

• 1:19:30Speaker 02

  And the movie flirts with the fact that he might save the day.

• 1:19:33Speaker 01

  This is my What's Age the Worst. This is genuinely like, you watch it now.

• 1:19:38Bill Simmons?

  The horrible sexual harassment.

• 1:19:39Speaker 01

  The brief attempt at redemption for the would be rapist bitch.

• 1:19:42Speaker 04

  Really?

• 1:19:43Speaker 01

  I think we, we edit that out now.

• 1:19:45Speaker 02

  Then?

• 1:19:46Speaker 01

  There's a note on that now.

• 1:19:47Bill Simmons?

  But then she's all tied up and he goes to basically untie her but gets on top of her.

• 1:19:52Speaker 02

  Straddle her.

• 1:19:53Speaker 01

  He's still Mitch Myerson.

• 1:19:55Speaker 02

  You kinda think he's gonna undo her and go, yeah, yeah, save you. What you got for me?

• 1:20:00Bill Simmons?

  Finally. What, what do you have, anything?

• 1:20:02Speaker 02

  Okay, two things. Number one, uh, this movie never happens today because you Google your new roommate.

• 1:20:08Speaker 01

  I mean, yeah.

• 1:20:08Speaker 02

  So you Google.

• 1:20:09Speaker 01

  The technology just.

• 1:20:09Speaker 02

  You Google the roommate and then you see all the fucking shit, you don't do it. And then number two, this is really Age the Worst to me. The eighties and nineties kink shaming that used to go on is crazy. Think about it.

• 1:20:22Bill Simmons?

  Like you have to be a freak if you went to this club.

• 1:20:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:24Speaker 01

  Right, yeah.

• 1:20:25Speaker 02

  Seven, uh, Police Academy, remember the running joke in Police Academy about the blue plate lounge or whatever was going on? There was an assault on the BDSM community in the eighties and nineties that I don't appreciate, right? And we're over that.

• 1:20:39Speaker 01

  I'm with you.

• 1:20:40Speaker 02

  We're over that.

• 1:20:41Speaker 01

  Billions opens with Chuck Rhodes getting burned with a cigarette butt and pissed on, and that's how it should be, folks.

• 1:20:46Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, we're back.

• 1:20:48Speaker 02

  You know, you know when it ended?

• 1:20:49Bill Simmons?

  Come all the way around.

• 1:20:50Speaker 02

  You know when this assault ended? It ended when the BDSM, the BDSM club was kinda the club that outed Vito Spatafor in The Supremes. Cause he was there. It's a fucking joke. You better not tell anyone. After that, we kinda came to it cause we love Vito.

• 1:21:08Bill Simmons?

  Any other What's Age the Worst? Cause I have two more.

• 1:21:10Speaker 01

  I think just like, what, Ally colon tech genius?

• 1:21:16Speaker 02

  Oh, you don't like it?

• 1:21:17Speaker 01

  What is her business exactly?

• 1:21:19Bill Simmons?

  But this is, we've talked about this in other pods. Ninety-two to ninety-five, you could basically do anything with the internet and nobody knew anything about the internet. So you could just pull it off.

• 1:21:27Speaker 01

  Crazy.

• 1:21:28Bill Simmons?

  Like, yeah, she's just, and then the account shuts down in twenty-four hours.

• 1:21:31Speaker 01

  Right, she's like.

• 1:21:32Bill Simmons?

  None of this stuff exists.

• 1:21:33Speaker 01

  Enough of a coding genius to put in a payment bomb. But the business seems to be basically like changed from solid olive to leopard print with one click. And when Mitch, the rapist, asks to see it, it's like, here's the invoice.

• 1:21:47Speaker 02

  It's proprietary, yeah.

• 1:21:48Speaker 01

  And I can't get any clients, even though I'm a coding genius.

• 1:21:52Bill Simmons?

  Never sit here working, coding, anything. She just seems like she goes to get ice cream and go shopping.

• 1:21:59Bill Simmons?

  All right, I have a couple important, one's age the worst.

• 1:22:02Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:22:03Bill Simmons?

  When Hetty dies.

• 1:22:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:06Bill Simmons?

  When Ally kills her, I really think it needs a line like, you're off the lease. Like some sort of Schwarzenegger line. I think we need some sort of levity there.

• 1:22:15Speaker 02

  You're evicted.

• 1:22:16Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:17Speaker 01

  You're a.

• 1:22:17Bill Simmons?

  This is your eviction notice.

• 1:22:18Speaker 02

  This is your eviction notice, yeah.

• 1:22:20Bill Simmons?

  Cause the movie's so campy at that point, like just have fun with it.

• 1:22:22Speaker 01

  Now you don't need to find another apartment, yeah?

• 1:22:24Bill Simmons?

  This, this quote, did you know that identical twins are never really identical? There's always one who's prettier and the one who's not does all the work.

• 1:22:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:33Bill Simmons?

  She used me and then she left me, just like you. I'm giving this the earn this award for the line that should have been shown to William Goldman first. It's just that they're just pouring it on a little too much. It's like, let's do better with our screenwriting, guys.

• 1:22:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:48Bill Simmons?

  And then, uh, this is just for me personally, but the Jennifer Jason-Lea, I have to give her the Ted Levine Award for her performance so good and distinct. It may have ruined the actress's career. Did not ruin her career. It ruined her for me. I just see Hetty after, every movie she made after this, I'm like, watch out for her. Hans Gruber scale villain ranking?

• 1:23:09Speaker 01

  I'm in.

• 1:23:09Speaker 02

  It's way up there.

• 1:23:11Bill Simmons?

  Oh, you have her way up? I have her lower because I actually feel bad for her and kind of liked her.

• 1:23:14Speaker 01

  No, I, I'm sorry.

• 1:23:15Bill Simmons?

  The puppy killed her.

• 1:23:16Speaker 01

  She threw Buddy off the balcony. Previously had kicked Buddy, leaves Graham's cat to feed off of his. Supposed corpse, she thought it was a corpse. Also, like murders a lot of people. But it's the animal stuff for me that takes it up to.

• 1:23:30Speaker 02

  She was activated, but at the same time, she's cold.

• 1:23:33Bill Simmons?

  Okay. Raffael Hannah Rubinek Partridge over acting word, obviously Stephen Tobolowsky. Just Stephen Tobolowsky.

• 1:23:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:41Bill Simmons?

  Um, just dialing it up as Mitch Myersen.

• 1:23:43Speaker 01

  Boy, is he.

• 1:23:44Bill Simmons?

  He's, he's basically like, he had to go back the other way with Groundhog Day to just make us like him again after the Mitch Myersen thing. What do you have for your flex fan?

• 1:23:53Speaker 02

  Uh, list, I'll be quick. Top five, this motherfucker is crazy moments in movies. Like the moment in the movie, you realize that this character is out of their fucking mind. Number five is Ty, Bishop in Juice and O-Dog in Men's Society. The killing of the convenience store people in these movies where you go, yo, why did you do that? You're crazy. Uh, number four, Katie comes down the stairs.

• 1:24:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, with the new haircut.

• 1:24:20Speaker 02

  With the new haircut.

• 1:24:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:21Speaker 02

  Just an all time, no, she's really out of her goddamn mind moment.

• 1:24:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:26Speaker 02

  Number three, still a scene that creeps me out, the Annie, I hate profanity moment from Misery. You remember this?

• 1:24:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:24:35Speaker 02

  He's, he's telling her, he's like, ah, am I just going crazy over where he realizes, yo, I'm in trouble. Uh, number two, the Fight Club self beat up.

• 1:24:44Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm, yeah, sure.

• 1:24:45Speaker 02

  By Ed Norton. You could also go with later on, when you realize that it's all in his head and there's no Tyler Durden.

• 1:24:51Speaker 01

  Spoiler.

• 1:24:52Speaker 02

  Number one is clear, the craziest moment of anybody that's ever been crazier in the movie is Buffalo Bill.

• 1:24:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course, yeah.

• 1:25:00Speaker 02

  Uh, in the goodbye horses scene. Would you fuck me?

• 1:25:04Bill Simmons?

  I was gonna say.

• 1:25:04Speaker 01

  Bill's favorite.

• 1:25:05Bill Simmons?

  Bill movie.

• 1:25:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're right. He's, he's now got the skin on and the whole nine.

• 1:25:10Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:11Speaker 02

  Looking at, this is the craziest character we've had in the movie ever.

• 1:25:14Speaker 01

  We've done a number of those on Rewatchables.

• 1:25:16Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:25:17Speaker 01

  Strong list.

• 1:25:18Speaker 02

  Anything?

• 1:25:18Bill Simmons?

  She's gonna get the hose again, isn't she, precious?

• 1:25:23Bill Simmons?

  I would have thrown Wangro in there.

• 1:25:24Speaker 02

  Oh, Wangro.

• 1:25:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:26Bill Simmons?

  Wangro just shoots the, shoots the guard in the van. There's no reason.

• 1:25:30Speaker 02

  He, I had to. Get it on. But but you could go for that. You also could go for the time that Rengaro, Rengaro like randomly kills a prostitute for no

• 1:25:40Bill Simmons?

  Well, that but we already know he's crazy.

• 1:25:41Speaker 02

  We already know he's crazy, but we know that he's got an impulse control problem at first. The second one is this guy's actually like a homicidal maniac. Just killing random hookers.

• 1:25:50Bill Simmons?

  Gans in forty eight hours. That's a good one, too. Yeah. Um, Ca- uh, oh, the Sierra thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford hottest take award.

• 1:25:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:59Bill Simmons?

  I kinda did mine with, uh, Fondin, Sandra Bullock. I have another one, but I feel like Van's gonna do it, or one of you's gonna do it.

• 1:26:05Speaker 01

  I have two. One of them is what Van kind of already has alluded to a couple of times, which is like Hetty, better roommate than Ally? Is this where you want to talk about it a little more?

• 1:26:13Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, let's do it.

• 1:26:14Speaker 02

  This is Ally's fault.

• 1:26:14Bill Simmons?

  I think we all have this hottest take.

• 1:26:16Speaker 02

  Like, a lot of this, I could make a

• 1:26:18Bill Simmons?

  Was Ally asking for it?

• 1:26:19Speaker 02

  Was Ally, I could make an easy pro Hetty argument here.

• 1:26:22Bill Simmons?

  Easy.

• 1:26:23Speaker 01

  Hetty fixes the plumbing, makes breakfast, offers to make dinner, makes tea, dries your wet clothing, compliments your fashion, encourages you to stand up for yourself at work, defends you to your shitty boss. Ally snoops through your stuff.

• 1:26:37Bill Simmons?

  Yep.

• 1:26:38Speaker 01

  Uh, allows Hetty to think that she was abducted and killed in the scary city of New York.

• 1:26:42Bill Simmons?

  Lies to her about the least. Yeah, my boyfriend and I aren't coming back.

• 1:26:43Speaker 01

  Promises her she won't kick her out and then does.

• 1:26:46Speaker 02

  The original sin of the movie is Hetty asking her, you're not just gonna go back to him. Ally completely lies and then puts Hetty in a bad situation.

• 1:26:56Bill Simmons?

  Also, be a good roommate. She wants to hang out with you.

• 1:27:00Speaker 01

  Well.

• 1:27:00Bill Simmons?

  Just like have breakfast with her for forty minutes. It's done hard.

• 1:27:03Speaker 02

  Walks into her room while she

• 1:27:05Speaker 01

  Watches her masturbate.

• 1:27:06Speaker 02

  Watches her masturbate.

• 1:27:07Bill Simmons?

  With the dog.

• 1:27:08Speaker 02

  With the, with the goddamn puppy.

• 1:27:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, buddy.

• 1:27:10Bill Simmons?

  Follows her to a sex club. She can't go to a BDSM club?

• 1:27:14Speaker 02

  By the way, goes through her stuff, not the second time, but the first time.

• 1:27:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's like looking at her prescription pills.

• 1:27:20Speaker 02

  Looking, looking at all of her shit, going through her shit.

• 1:27:23Bill Simmons?

  Walks up to Graham's house, Graham's apartment, just to shit talk her for an hour.

• 1:27:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:29Bill Simmons?

  With the vents.

• 1:27:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:31Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I'm with you.

• 1:27:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. I do have a related, uh, sort of like the inverse of that hottest take. Uh, it's still an anti-Allie take, but it, it kind of is also thus an anti-Hetty take. This gets back to the idiot plot thing. Okay. Ally.

• 1:27:46Speaker 01

  Too dumb to live? That's the take. Is Ally too dumb to live? I'm sorry. The list-

• 1:27:53Bill Simmons?

  She does get, she does get very resourceful with about 15 minutes left in the movie.

• 1:27:58Speaker 01

  It's way too late.

• 1:27:59Bill Simmons?

  For reasons that make no sense.

• 1:28:00Speaker 04

  Turning up the volume on the TV, smart.

• 1:28:02Speaker 02

  That was smart.

• 1:28:02Speaker 01

  Way too late.

• 1:28:03Speaker 04

  Savvy move.

• 1:28:04Speaker 01

  Way too late. Missing mail, missing messages, the steady, the growing volume of the matching outfits. This person is stealing your wardrobe, got your exact same, very distinct haircut, has a secret identity in a shoebox waiting for you to look through, uses your name at a sex club, responds to you going out for a night with your boyfriend by screaming at you, "Where the hell have you been?" Finds you and your boyfriend in bed, goes and brings your boyfriend a soda, talks to him while he's naked and then immediately go masturbate with the door open, says threes a crowd to your dog as she is feeding your boyfriend breakfast,

• 1:28:49Speaker 01

  scares Mitch, appropriate, but does it by threatening his family? Worrying, right? Ally calls Ellen's parents and is like, "I'm sure you have the phone number." Based on what? Why do you think they have the phone number and know where your daughter, who has assumed a false identity, is? Unfazed by a sink full of bloody clothes. All Hetty has to do is pretend she got her period and Ally's like, "Yeah."

• 1:29:19Speaker 02

  It's a lot of blood.

• 1:29:19Speaker 01

  That makes sense, that there's a sink full of blood, including-

• 1:29:23Bill Simmons?

  It's like the fucking OJ Nicole Cronin.

• 1:29:26Speaker 01

  Your clothes are coated in blood and you're like, "Oh, this always hits when I'm wearing something nice." Ally, too dumb to live. I'm sorry.

• 1:29:32Bill Simmons?

  Wow. The only person I think dumber in all the From Hell series is the mom in Hand that Rocks the Cradle.

• 1:29:38Speaker 02

  She's like legitimately, that's actually a poorly written character.

• 1:29:41Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, she's the stupidest person. And we might have to deal with her in a later episode. I have a hottest take as- As we're thinking about this, that I didn't know I was gonna have, but I have now because you mentioned Mr. Ripley. Is this movie a better ending if Ally just gets killed by Hetty and Hetty takes her life? In the last 10 minutes, she's just now Hetty? I mean, now just Ally?

• 1:30:04Speaker 01

  I kinda think so.

• 1:30:05Bill Simmons?

  She has all her clothes, she has her haircut. She's not on the lease, she just starts.

• 1:30:09Speaker 02

  Hadn't thought about it.

• 1:30:10Bill Simmons?

  She goes to the, the sex club and she's like, hey Ally, what's, and it's just like I've now taken her life.

• 1:30:16Speaker 02

  Well, I tell you what.

• 1:30:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:17Bill Simmons?

  It's a better ending than the ending we had.

• 1:30:19Speaker 02

  The movie is for some reason like more memorable because her becoming Ally, Ally doesn't know anyone. Ally doesn't seem to have any family. You could pretty much take over Ally's life in New York.

• 1:30:29Bill Simmons?

  Honestly, works Mr. Ripley really well. I really enjoy it when, when he becomes, uh, what's his face? What's the, what's Jude Love's character?

• 1:30:37Speaker 01

  Dickie Greenleaf.

• 1:30:38Bill Simmons?

  Dickie Greenleaf, yeah. I like when he becomes Dickie Greenleaf for half hour.

• 1:30:40Speaker 02

  You know what's funny about the end of Mr. Ripley? Is with everything that Tom did, you almost still feel sad for him at the end of the movie.

• 1:30:48Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, of course.

• 1:30:48Speaker 02

  That the walls are closing in on him.

• 1:30:50Bill Simmons?

  He had it all figured out.

• 1:30:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:52Bill Simmons?

  Kate Blanchett shows up on the, on the cruise.

• 1:30:55Speaker 01

  Did you guys watch the Netflix Andrew Scott black and white remake of it?

• 1:30:59Speaker 02

  I tried.

• 1:30:59Speaker 01

  A couple of years ago? I thought that was really good.

• 1:31:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, I tried.

• 1:31:01Speaker 01

  Okay. There's a great cat in that one too.

• 1:31:03Bill Simmons?

  There are no casting what ifs for this movie other than the one we mentioned.

• 1:31:06Speaker 02

  So there's, there's not a, there's, oh no, we have to do recast because I'm confused.

• 1:31:10Bill Simmons?

  Uh, best that guy award is clearly Steven Tobolowsky, Ned Ryerson.

• 1:31:13Speaker 01

  Always. Anytime he's in a movie, it's him.

• 1:31:15Speaker 04

  No, although I'm starting to learn it. He's been in enough of these movies. I will shout out brief moment.

• 1:31:20Speaker 01

  I mean, he was just to that guy for Basic Instinct.

• 1:31:21Speaker 04

  Brief moment in this movie is the Happy Gilmore grandma.

• 1:31:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, Francis Bay.

• 1:31:25Speaker 01

  Yes. That's a great, that's a great one.

• 1:31:28Bill Simmons?

  I honestly, the winner might be Graham for this.

• 1:31:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, Peter Friedman.

• 1:31:32Bill Simmons?

  It's Frank from Succession, but I'm not positive I knew his name was Peter Friedman. Did you know that was his name, Ben?

• 1:31:36Speaker 02

  Nope.

• 1:31:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I think that might be the answer. Dan Waiters award weirdly is Steven Weber. He's only in like three scenes.

• 1:31:43Speaker 01

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:31:44Speaker 02

  I went with.

• 1:31:44Bill Simmons?

  Including.

• 1:31:48Speaker 02

  You could go with him. I don't know why I thought he was in the movie too much. I went with asshole boss.

• 1:31:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, me too.

• 1:31:54Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:31:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:54Speaker 02

  I went with him.

• 1:31:55Speaker 01

  Mitch, yeah.

• 1:31:56Speaker 02

  Mitch, yeah.

• 1:31:58Bill Simmons?

  See, support sexual harassment. Recasting Couch Director or City? There's only five characters in this movie.

• 1:32:04Speaker 01

  I know, it's a small cast.

• 1:32:05Bill Simmons?

  It's a weird one. Like, I actually feel like there should have been another neighbor next door, or...

• 1:32:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:11Bill Simmons?

  Something extra. I don't know.

• 1:32:13Speaker 02

  Let's say for Recasting Couch.

• 1:32:15Bill Simmons?

  I like your idea of...

• 1:32:17Speaker 01

  Darius.

• 1:32:18Bill Simmons?

  You guys adopting Hetty.

• 1:32:19Speaker 02

  Darius.

• 1:32:20Speaker 01

  Incredible.

• 1:32:21Speaker 02

  Hey, it was not, not, hey.

• 1:32:22Speaker 01

  Unbelievable.

• 1:32:25Speaker 02

  Hey, come on, girl. Hey, come on, don't worry about them. Hey, bring the dog, man, we want some of that. Martin, Hetty. Hetty here. We cool, we cool, don't worry about it.

• 1:32:34Bill Simmons?

  It's a great movie.

• 1:32:35Speaker 01

  Incredible.

• 1:32:35Speaker 02

  Recasting Couch. Halle Berry as your lead.

• 1:32:40Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 1:32:41Speaker 02

  Same haircut.

• 1:32:42Bill Simmons?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:32:43Speaker 02

  That, so what I thought about the iconic...

• 1:32:44Bill Simmons?

  The boomerang haircut.

• 1:32:45Speaker 01

  This is great.

• 1:32:46Speaker 02

  The boomerang haircut, Halle Berry as your lead.

• 1:32:48Speaker 01

  This is why you're you.

• 1:32:49Speaker 02

  Now, you got all kinds of fucked up shit. Now, you'll probably have to make the movie in like 96, right? Because, you know, we're coming off the rides, we don't need to incite people more. But like, it, it's, it's, it's like, we don't need to, we, we need to get back together. You know, we need to get back on the same page.

• 1:33:05Bill Simmons?

  Reincited the riots.

• 1:33:06Speaker 02

  Like, we, like, we don't need to give it, but like, if you had Halle Berry and now you got something really fucked up.

• 1:33:11Speaker 01

  Great one.

• 1:33:12Speaker 02

  That makes the Sam scene a little tougher. Because Hetty is white, but it also makes it a little bit better. You know what I mean?

• 1:33:19Speaker 01

  Well, you have to recast Hetty, too.

• 1:33:21Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:33:22Speaker 01

  You don't think so?

• 1:33:23Speaker 02

  Nah, it's still single white female. You leave it, you leave it the exact same. Actually, they...

• 1:33:28Bill Simmons?

  You lose the red hair, red hair thing, but you gain...

• 1:33:32Speaker 02

  You gain all of the stuff we can't talk about.

• 1:33:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you gain some really good stuff.

• 1:33:36Speaker 04

  Is the phrase "single white female" referencing Ally or Hetty?

• 1:33:40Speaker 01

  Well, it's initially, it's Ally. It's single white female, seek Sam is the classified ad that she puts in to look for a roommate.

• 1:33:46Speaker 04

  She's not looking for a single white female. She is a single white female.

• 1:33:49Speaker 01

  Oh, seek Sam. So she's saying, yes, right, exactly.

• 1:33:52Bill Simmons?

  Well, ironically, I was, the next category I had thrown in here was the Van Lathan Award for did this movie need more black people? I think we've answered it. We needed Darius.

• 1:33:59Speaker 02

  Darius from the fourth floor.

• 1:33:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Craig, what's your flex category?

• 1:34:02Speaker 04

  Oh, God, I have kind of a lot I can throw. I don't even know what category this is. I guess it's a hot take. I, I, I just think this movie features the weirdest sleeping arrangements and preferences that I've, and I've ever seen in a movie.

• 1:34:13Speaker 01

  This drives me crazy when people turn around where their feet and heads are in the bed. Disgusting.

• 1:34:17Speaker 04

  That makes no sense.

• 1:34:18Speaker 01

  Hate it.

• 1:34:18Speaker 04

  Everyone is sleeping with the door open, with roommates you just met. Everyone, why is everybody sleeping in like, like flimsy night gowns? I don't understand that at all.

• 1:34:27Speaker 01

  Well, that's, I think, more like it's New York.

• 1:34:30Bill Simmons?

  We're setting the mood.

• 1:34:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's warm, it's sticky, your windows are open.

• 1:34:34Speaker 04

  You have a brand new roommate and you're just roaming around in some little gown? You're leaving your door, like, they're not even locked, let alone closed?

• 1:34:40Speaker 01

  This is the, the female version of dudes whip their dicks out next to each other at the urinal. Like, if you have a roommate, you wear a nightgown without a bra. It's fine.

• 1:34:47Speaker 04

  Like, now, would you ever keep your room open when, your door open when you're sleeping with roommates in your twenties? Like, were you doing that?

• 1:34:53Bill Simmons?

  I don't do it in my house now with my children.

• 1:34:55Speaker 04

  I think it's crazy that all these doors are wide open.

• 1:34:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I prefer a closed door.

• 1:34:59Speaker 04

  Closed doors, always, always a winner. They're so comfortable in this film.

• 1:35:02Bill Simmons?

  I don't know what category that you just created, but it's definitely something.

• 1:35:06Speaker 04

  I don't know what it is. Also.

• 1:35:07Bill Simmons?

  The single white female sleeping arrangements award for weirdest sleeping habits?

• 1:35:11Speaker 04

  Also, you, I had the same thing to OK, motherfucker for the exact moment when this movie goes up a notch with Buddy the dog. But I think we need to add a category for, I don't think we have this. The second you see a character, you know they're gonna die.

• 1:35:22Speaker 02

  Oh, love it.

• 1:35:23Speaker 04

  The, the second I saw Buddy, I was like, that dog's dead.

• 1:35:26Speaker 02

  Buddy's dead?

• 1:35:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:27Speaker 02

  Like, you, you know. That almost was, I promise you, swear on my dad, that almost was the list. The, the list was almost, I couldn't think of enough characters. The list was almost, and then I misremembered the movie because Graham survives the movie. But like Graham is a character and Sam, you know they're out of here. They're fucking dead.

• 1:35:43Bill Simmons?

  Well, the Lathan movies will have like, somebody's friend who starts getting a little nosy. You're like, oh no.

• 1:35:50Speaker 01

  Right. It kind of fits on the, the Chekhov's list. It's like Chekhov's pet who the crazy roommate's gonna kill. And like even a subset within that is you know the moment. Because when she calls Buddy over and he won't come to her. You're like, well, this is it. She's gonna kill Buddy now.

• 1:36:06Bill Simmons?

  I mean.

• 1:36:07Speaker 01

  Because he prefers alley, just like everybody else.

• 1:36:09Bill Simmons?

  The woman's a psycho. You gotta suck up to her.

• 1:36:11Speaker 01

  Crazy.

• 1:36:11Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, the bunny from Fatal Attraction is like that, too.

• 1:36:13Speaker 01

  Or the whale bunny.

• 1:36:14Bill Simmons?

  We'll take one more break and then we'll rip through the rest.

• 1:36:17Speaker 05

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• 1:37:02Bill Simmons?

  All right, half-assed internet research. So there's this poor test screening with a ending that got reshot. I really, really did a lot of recon on this, trying to find out why it was different. I found an article about, um, Schroeder said, the studio said I could go ahead and reshoot. There was a technical problem. I decided with the extra money, I could do better. I ended up adding another beat to the climax. Spent $60,000 a day for two days. I don't know what the reshoot is, but when you watch it, it's one of those movies that feels like it's gonna end and then it doesn't.

• 1:37:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:37Bill Simmons?

  And then it ends again.

• 1:37:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:38Bill Simmons?

  And I wonder, like, was this a better movie if she just killed? The elevator fight scene is just the last scene. We never go back in. We're not climbing in vents. There's not a rat. Do we just get rid of that and they die in the elevator? Might have been the better way to do it.

• 1:37:53Speaker 02

  And the elevator was foreshadowed a little bit, too.

• 1:37:55Speaker 01

  It is. The screwdriver.

• 1:37:56Bill Simmons?

  Or like we do the whole, the elevator stops halfway through the floors and somebody gets dismembered or, you know?

• 1:38:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, that seems likely as well throughout the film.

• 1:38:05Bill Simmons?

  It just feels like something's missing with this.

• 1:38:07Speaker 02

  It seemed like the movie didn't really wanna commit to Hettie's death. Hettie could have had a grander death.

• 1:38:12Speaker 01

  I mean, yeah, even like, there's something about the voiceover at the end where you're like... That sounds like Hetty talking. You know, like, I think they're trying to heighten the theorizing and the mystery and the intrigue.

• 1:38:27Bill Simmons?

  What's the point of the photo with the split thing? Like, who would have that?

• 1:38:30Speaker 01

  I think to put Ally in the Hetty position, like, this trauma, and that goes back to the unanswerable of like, did Hetty always mean to kill her twin? Or was it just a terrible accident or some impulse that then led her down this path? The idea that Ally has now done this thing that will lead her down this path and that she is now in the Hetty position. She's keeping Hetty's possessions. She's talking about trying to forgive herself. The ending of the book, which, like Van, I have not read, but did a little, like, okay, what happens in this book? It is really different. So that makes it even harder to try to figure out what they changed because it's so distinct from what the actual story is.

• 1:39:05Bill Simmons?

  You mentioned the Hellfire Club.

• 1:39:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:07Bill Simmons?

  They wanted it to look like a club called The Vault, which was another fetish club, which is why they had the red signature V from The Vault, which I know you know. Probably not. But it was all an interior set. And then, um, so in the blowjob scene, Bridget Fonda is actually in there for a second because there was some, Jennifer Jason Leigh wasn't ready and they needed somebody for a shot. So she actually is in there at one point, which is why.

• 1:39:31Speaker 02

  So that fucks with the audience a little bit, too. Yeah, okay.

• 1:39:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:34Bill Simmons?

  Apex Mountain, Bridget Fonda, a hundred percent, definitely.

• 1:39:37Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 1:39:38Bill Simmons?

  Nineteen ninety-two was it. Jennifer Jason Leigh's a tougher one. I don't even.

• 1:39:42Speaker 02

  Well, you gotta go with the.

• 1:39:43Bill Simmons?

  Really know what it is. She had a long, really storied career.

• 1:39:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:47Speaker 02

  The Fast Times, that's not it. You get here. It literally was her breakthrough role in a lot of ways. But then.

• 1:39:54Bill Simmons?

  But some would say Rush was, so it's probably early nineties somewhere.

• 1:39:57Speaker 02

  But then she gets, but then Hateful Eight is like an Academy Award nomination and now she's, she's back and more relevant than almost ever.

• 1:40:03Speaker 01

  I mean, Fast Times is eighty-two, Hateful Eight is two thousand fifteen. That's just a long run of.

• 1:40:08Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:40:08Bill Simmons?

  What do you have for New York City movie apartments?

• 1:40:11Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 1:40:12Bill Simmons?

  Got a lot of good ones, including the Raunters one you mentioned. But it's probably Ghost, right? Ghost, that apartment was unbelievable.

• 1:40:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, Ghost is awesome.

• 1:40:18Speaker 01

  That's a great one.

• 1:40:19Speaker 02

  Cause there's also an iconic scene-

• 1:40:20Speaker 01

  The shard of glass in the window.

• 1:40:21Speaker 02

  That is set inside of the apartment, which gives it a leg up on some of the other apartments. That was inside the apartment, right? When they were making the fucking clay?

• 1:40:29Speaker 01

  The pottery mill.

• 1:40:29Speaker 02

  Poor Sam.

• 1:40:30Bill Simmons?

  Ghost tells us what happens to people when they go to hell.

• 1:40:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's true.

• 1:40:34Bill Simmons?

  Told you that before. Steven Weber, who's in this and Wings at the same time, I feel like this is it for him.

• 1:40:40Speaker 01

  It's crazy to me that he's the Wings guy. I loved Wings.

• 1:40:43Speaker 02

  There's a whole class of Steven Weber-type guys that I thought were going to be a little bit more around.

• 1:40:53Bill Simmons?

  Tony Goldman was like-

• 1:40:54Speaker 02

  Tony Goldman was that until Scandal comes.

• 1:40:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:56Speaker 02

  Like, a whole bunch of guys and they just, they couldn't pierce past the, they couldn't even get to like the Kevin Bacon level, it seems like. They're just kinda gone.

• 1:41:05Bill Simmons?

  Puppy Murders? Apex Mountain?

• 1:41:07Speaker 01

  I, I think it's John Wick.

• 1:41:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's John Wick. John Wick is-

• 1:41:10Bill Simmons?

  Is that a puppy in John Wick? I can't remember.

• 1:41:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:41:11Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you're right.

• 1:41:12Speaker 02

  Like, like thousands died because that puppy died.

• 1:41:15Bill Simmons?

  Evil Movie Roommates? I think this is it.

• 1:41:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think so.

• 1:41:21Bill Simmons?

  And then Enigma, definitely.

• 1:41:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:25Speaker 01

  You do a good chance. A good choral chance. Everyday Objects as murder weapons? Is it this, the stiletto? Or is it the ice pick from Basic Instinct? Tough one.

• 1:41:35Speaker 02

  Oh, I got, I got one.

• 1:41:36Bill Simmons?

  Ice pick's great. Cause she uses it in a non-murder scene.

• 1:41:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, but the stilettos are also used in a non-murder scene cause they have, they both try them on and it's like, who's gonna buy them?

• 1:41:45Speaker 02

  An obscure one from a really popular movie?

• 1:41:47Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 1:41:47Speaker 02

  The Joker's pencil trick.

• 1:41:49Speaker 01

  Also that, on the John Wick front.

• 1:41:51Speaker 02

  Right, right, right.

• 1:41:52Speaker 01

  Gonna make this pencil disappear?

• 1:41:53Speaker 02

  You remember that scene?

• 1:41:55Bill Simmons?

  I haven't seen Joker in a while.

• 1:41:57Speaker 02

  From The Dark Knight?

• 1:41:58Speaker 01

  From Dark Knight.

• 1:41:58Bill Simmons?

  Oh, Dark Knight.

• 1:41:59Speaker 02

  Like, I'm gonna make this pencil disappear. Ta-da, it's gone.

• 1:42:03Speaker 01

  And then he pushes the guy's head down and goes through his eye.

• 1:42:05Speaker 02

  That is like for an interest to he that already, we had already seen him for an interest to a character. We were the arc light, like, fuck.

• 1:42:12Speaker 01

  Great one.

• 1:42:16Bill Simmons?

  I wrote down how would Van Lathan get out of this one with question marks, but I feel like you already kinda did it unless you wanna do it.

• 1:42:21Speaker 02

  Which one?

• 1:42:22Bill Simmons?

  Well, that's the thing. You could pick, you could pick the blowjob scene. You could pick the ex-wife anniversary scene, but I feel like you already did it.

• 1:42:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, let's, let's get out of here, cuz really, the only way to get out of it-

• 1:42:33Bill Simmons?

  Actually, can we do this?

• 1:42:34Speaker 02

  What?

• 1:42:35Bill Simmons?

  Hetty doesn't kill Sam. She leaves, storms out, and tells, tells Ally what happened. "I went in, Sam called me over, and I ended up, I gave him a blowjob."

• 1:42:46Speaker 01

  Come on, say the quote. Say the quote. Say the exact quote. "Ally, he came in my mouth and then he tried to beat the shit out of me because I wanted to tell you."

• 1:42:56Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:42:56Speaker 01

  That's a line in this movie.

• 1:42:57Speaker 02

  Well, let me tell you something. First of all, honestly-

• 1:43:00Speaker 01

  Incredible.

• 1:43:01Speaker 02

  Honestly, I feel, I feel attacked having even had this conversation with you. That's the first thing. I wanna let you know that the first, because you see her fucking haircut. You see the haircut.

• 1:43:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:43:11Speaker 02

  And forget about the fact that-

• 1:43:12Bill Simmons?

  This woman's cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.

• 1:43:14Speaker 02

  She's, she's fucking crazy, by the way. I didn't know it was you, but you even, like, indicting me over this after you've seen it? Let's go to her room right now. I bet you if we go to her room right now, we gonna find some crazy shit. Because that motherfucker is crazy. Now, did I enjoy it? That's not a question for you to ask me. I'm a man, there's biology to this situation.

• 1:43:36Bill Simmons?

  Hetty said you knew it was her, then you kept going.

• 1:43:38Speaker 02

  And that's not what happened at all, first of all. Like, I didn't know it was her.

• 1:43:41Bill Simmons?

  I was asleep.

• 1:43:41Speaker 01

  No, you can't say I didn't know it was her.

• 1:43:43Speaker 02

  What?

• 1:43:44Speaker 01

  That's the, you can't do it. That's the one thing you can't do.

• 1:43:47Bill Simmons?

  No, you say you were asleep. I wasn't even awake. It was 3:30 in the morning.

• 1:43:50Speaker 01

  You fess up to the blowjob, maybe you can get out of it. You cannot say, "I thought that was you."

• 1:43:55Speaker 02

  Oh, but let me tell you something. You gotta go full toxic here, though, man. You gotta go full toxic. You gotta say, "You know what? As a matter of fact, I only lasted about 30 seconds, and that's cuz I'm not getting what I need from you." This is a separate conversation we gotta have.

• 1:44:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:08Speaker 02

  Because-

• 1:44:09Bill Simmons?

  Oh, the Bill Clinton strategy.

• 1:44:10Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:44:11Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:12Speaker 02

  Worth a bill?

• 1:44:14Bill Simmons?

  We were missing something in the relationship.

• 1:44:16Speaker 02

  There wasn't the spark that was there. Not now, I have to say, after we get rid of her, cuz we gotta get rid of her, cuz I feel like she gonna go crazy, me and you gotta get away.

• 1:44:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:25Speaker 02

  We gotta go away.

• 1:44:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, we have some things to work through.

• 1:44:27Speaker 02

  Santorini.

• 1:44:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:27Speaker 02

  Eric.

• 1:44:28Speaker 01

  Beautiful there.

• 1:44:28Bill Simmons?

  Santorini, nice.

• 1:44:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, we gotta get away.

• 1:44:30Speaker 01

  Beautiful there.

• 1:44:32Bill Simmons?

  Cruz or Hanks? So this would be for the Sam role. I think it has to be Cruz.

• 1:44:38Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:44:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:39Speaker 01

  Cruz as Sam, but-

• 1:44:41Bill Simmons?

  Fighting off the blowjob would be one of the great 10 seconds in Rewatchable History.

• 1:44:45Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, you're right. Why am I tripping?

• 1:44:47Speaker 01

  Hanks could be Graham, though.

• 1:44:48Speaker 02

  Hanks could be Graham. I don't know why I thought of like a-

• 1:44:51Bill Simmons?

  Probably a step down for him.

• 1:44:52Speaker 02

  A David and Common era, Bosom Buddy era Hanks.

• 1:44:57Bill Simmons?

  Oh, as Sam? Interesting. Uh, Scorsese or Spielberg? Guess what, guys? We're retiring this category.

• 1:45:03Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:45:04Bill Simmons?

  Because last week, we did it with Spielberg for 2001. We can't top it. Category is done.

• 1:45:08Speaker 02

  Mm.

• 1:45:09Bill Simmons?

  Put a fork in it. We can't top that, Craig.

• 1:45:11Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:45:12Bill Simmons?

  We had Spielberg himself weighing in on Scorsese or Spielberg and seemed to be really enjoying it.

• 1:45:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, we do need to get Scorsese's take.

• 1:45:19Speaker 02

  I'm gonna ask you a question.

• 1:45:21Bill Simmons?

  We'll bring it back if Scorsese ever comes on.

• 1:45:23Speaker 02

  I'm gonna ask you a question, and I don't know if you're gonna be able to answer the question because of all the people you've ever interviewed and had on it, to have to notice. Have you ever interviewed anyone who is as good or as cemented at the thing that they do, which is one of the biggest things? I'm not talking about like the best cornhole player in the world. I'm talking about, if you're talking about just movie making, one of the five guys. Have you ever interviewed or anyone who is as good and successful at the thing that they do as Steven Spielberg?

• 1:45:57Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:45:58Speaker 02

  It's hard. You'd have to have like Muhammad Ali.

• 1:46:01Speaker 04

  You interviewed Bill Russell, right?

• 1:46:04Speaker 01

  That's a good one.

• 1:46:04Speaker 04

  Obama?

• 1:46:06Bill Simmons?

  The one moment I could think of that could match Spielberg was I interviewed Larry Bird in, beginning in 2012, and we were talking about modern players.

• 1:46:14Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:46:15Bill Simmons?

  And he did this whole thing about Kobe that literally changed my mind on how I felt about Kobe as a basketball player. He's like, Kobe Bryant's my favorite basketball player, and here's why. And for like two minutes, I was just-

• 1:46:26Speaker 02

  It took Larry Bird to say it, huh?

• 1:46:27Bill Simmons?

  It really did. Is this every time I think we're gonna get there?

• 1:46:29Speaker 02

  Every time I think we're gonna get there, people ask me all the time, like, Bill's actually a real friend of mine. You always say something to piss me off.

• 1:46:37Bill Simmons?

  Larry Bird basically revealed, I am a Kobe guy, not a LeBron guy.

• 1:46:41Speaker 02

  Oh, shit.

• 1:46:41Bill Simmons?

  Like ninety seconds and it was a bit, but Spielberg like, no.

• 1:46:45Speaker 02

  It's nuts. Like you can make an argument that the. He's the best director ever, probably. That he invented the blockbuster. Like he's the reason why you go to the multiplex. Like he, he, there is the reason why this podcast maybe exists in a way.

• 1:46:56Bill Simmons?

  After we finished the pod, Sean did his thing that Sam does.

• 1:47:00Speaker 02

  After he changed his pants?

• 1:47:01Bill Simmons?

  After the blowjob. He went in the fetal position. Uh, picket nets.

• 1:47:06Speaker 01

  Oh, boy.

• 1:47:07Bill Simmons?

  All right, go. Ally, just the most gorgeous, uh, computer coder designer ever.

• 1:47:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:14Speaker 01

  He can be hot and smart. I'm okay with that one.

• 1:47:16Bill Simmons?

  I'm just, just pointing it out. The lights in the apartment were never on.

• 1:47:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:47:24Bill Simmons?

  Why kill Buddy? He's your only friend. Nobody likes you.

• 1:47:27Speaker 01

  Cause she's not mentally well.

• 1:47:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's just a sign that she was truly crazy.

• 1:47:31Bill Simmons?

  Golden, this is your guy. Take him for some walks. Have some buddy time.

• 1:47:34Speaker 01

  She wants to be chosen and he did not choose her.

• 1:47:37Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:47:38Speaker 01

  Very sad.

• 1:47:39Bill Simmons?

  Why would Sam think Ally wanted to come over at two thirty in the morning in New York City? Just hop in a cab. It'll be totally safe.

• 1:47:46Speaker 01

  Ever surprised me.

• 1:47:48Speaker 02

  Especially in the nineties in New York City.

• 1:47:52Bill Simmons?

  I have a couple more really good ones, but you guys go if you have any extras.

• 1:47:55Speaker 02

  I'll be quick. Number one, Hetty is like four and O against grown ass men.

• 1:48:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:00Speaker 02

  She fucking Ronda Rousey. She like, she legitimately.

• 1:48:03Bill Simmons?

  Really good.

• 1:48:03Speaker 01

  I have this one too.

• 1:48:04Speaker 02

  Like she legitimately is undefeated against grown men. Graham gone, Sam gone, like asshole boss gone.

• 1:48:12Bill Simmons?

  Mitch Byerson.

• 1:48:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:48:13Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, three and O.

• 1:48:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, she's basically overpowering grown ass.

• 1:48:17Bill Simmons?

  Maybe she was doing Muay Thai.

• 1:48:18Speaker 02

  Maybe she was.

• 1:48:19Speaker 01

  It specifically is the Sam one though, because like she shoots Mitch in the head, you know?

• 1:48:24Speaker 02

  But she shoots him after a struggle.

• 1:48:26Speaker 01

  She does. She, it has like a metal crowbar from the door to hit Graham with and he lives. The, the, the force, the torque, the velocity that you would need to brain somebody with a stiletto is like astonishing. I believe that you could puncture the eye, but we're going through into the brain so that he is in, he's not like twitching on the floor. Instant death.

• 1:48:51Speaker 01

  From one swing?

• 1:48:54Speaker 02

  It's tough.

• 1:48:54Speaker 01

  No, I know it's made of metal, but no.

• 1:48:57Speaker 02

  And then, other than that, I just think, I mean, you don't check the vitals on Graham? Graham is in there.

• 1:49:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's sloppy, that's sloppy work.

• 1:49:04Speaker 02

  Sloppy, sloppy killing.

• 1:49:05Speaker 01

  But Heady is sloppy. There's some other related, like, on the stiletto front and the sloppy front. She leaves, sloppy.

• 1:49:13Speaker 01

  She leaves the bloody stiletto out on the bathroom floor. That's like worse than having all of your secrets in a shoebox. Come on. I mean, we see her like do the full deep clean on the apartment. That's just, that's a big picking nit. I, I think on the air duct front and the sound traveling, there's a really big picking nit here. So Heady, obviously we know that Sam has been listening to Ally, but in a crucial moment in the movie, Heady hears.

• 1:49:39Bill Simmons?

  Because she dropped something next to the vent.

• 1:49:41Speaker 01

  She hears the conversation between Sam and Ally, which means that there's just no believable way that at no point would Ally have heard Graham through the vent and realize the sound traveled through the vent. It just doesn't make any sense. It's just, it's like borderline disqualifying, but I'm okay with it.

• 1:49:58Bill Simmons?

  I have a, would you actually die from taking a high heel through the eye?

• 1:50:02Speaker 01

  It would have to go into your brain.

• 1:50:04Bill Simmons?

  Or would you roll around and go, ah, ah, fuck!

• 1:50:07Speaker 01

  It should be a longer and more anguished death scene, I think.

• 1:50:09Bill Simmons?

  Did you die from that, Craig?

• 1:50:10Speaker 04

  Not me.

• 1:50:11Speaker 01

  Not you?

• 1:50:11Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:50:12Speaker 01

  Not you!

• 1:50:13Bill Simmons?

  I think it would really have to get in there.

• 1:50:16Speaker 01

  I think he just died from shame, probably.

• 1:50:18Speaker 04

  Also, in that scene, wouldn't Heady's like fingerprints, saliva be all over Sam?

• 1:50:24Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, she's getting caught, like, that's why she's cleaning up.

• 1:50:27Speaker 04

  She has no chance.

• 1:50:27Speaker 02

  Oh, and pre-DNA, though?

• 1:50:29Speaker 04

  No, no, we're not.

• 1:50:31Speaker 01

  We've talked about this in some of these other movies in this time period, like, it's, yeah, she cleans their apartment, but she doesn't clean the hotel.

• 1:50:37Bill Simmons?

  This is another picking nit for me. There is a witness who thinks it's Ally.

• 1:50:41Speaker 01

  Yes, the hotel, the front desk.

• 1:50:42Bill Simmons?

  It's the Hotel Atherton concierge at 3:30 in the morning, just, just hanging out.

• 1:50:47Speaker 01

  Nice to see you, Ms. Jones!

• 1:50:48Bill Simmons?

  What's this guy doing? Nobody's ever been in a New York City hotel and had anyone behind the counter after like 1.

• 1:50:54Speaker 01

  Crazy.

• 1:50:56Bill Simmons?

  That Heady's heel still has blood on it after she leaves the hotel and walks all the way home?

• 1:51:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:01Bill Simmons?

  It's still a blood mess?

• 1:51:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:03Speaker 04

  Her leaving the heels out is ridiculous.

• 1:51:05Speaker 01

  It's nuts.

• 1:51:06Bill Simmons?

  And then, uh... So this was part of the reshoot thing for me. Graham's dead, but then he's alive. But then when you see Graham just kind of.

• 1:51:16Speaker 01

  He's fine.

• 1:51:16Bill Simmons?

  Resurfaces for the fight scene. But if you really look at it, you don't see his face. I almost feel like that was part of the reshoot, but they couldn't get Graham.

• 1:51:25Speaker 01

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:51:26Bill Simmons?

  And it's like, there's one moment where my wife and I are arguing about this because I had to watch it again last night. She said, no, no, you can see his face right there. And I was like, I don't know, can you?

• 1:51:35Speaker 01

  Thought so.

• 1:51:36Bill Simmons?

  It's weird. He comes in to save the day, but he's kind of like doing the thing.

• 1:51:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:40Bill Simmons?

  It's like the Al Pacino stuntman in Heat, man.

• 1:51:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:43Bill Simmons?

  Remember the Asian guy who's Al Pacino stuntman in Heat when they didn't realize we're gonna have 4K UHD Blu-rays?

• 1:51:49Speaker 01

  Doesn't hold up.

• 1:51:50Speaker 02

  But the eighties would do that. Sometimes they would just like not even give a fuck.

• 1:51:53Bill Simmons?

  No idea.

• 1:51:54Speaker 01

  Another picking that is like in the end, the fight, a couple of things on the alley front here again. You're about to be burned alive and you let a rat reveal your location. You have to mission impossible Krieger, that rat. You just have to. You can't, you gotta squeeze the rat. You can't knock the rat on top of him. And like let the hunk.

• 1:52:13Bill Simmons?

  It's like there's more rats too.

• 1:52:15Speaker 01

  Related.

• 1:52:15Speaker 02

  Great character.

• 1:52:16Speaker 01

  Yes. Oh, Krieger. Just fantastic.

• 1:52:18Speaker 02

  Great character.

• 1:52:19Speaker 01

  Oh, fantastic. Uh, Ali is a mashup of Spider-Man and Rambo at the end.

• 1:52:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, how is she like climbing up in the vents?

• 1:52:27Speaker 01

  And hanging, swing hangs from the back.

• 1:52:31Speaker 02

  We keep, we never say it back to this. This is, this is the Erica Lineak. You, uh, like, what's the name of the movie?

• 1:52:38Bill Simmons?

  Under Siege.

• 1:52:39Speaker 02

  How did you get this good this quick?

• 1:52:41Speaker 01

  Crazy.

• 1:52:42Speaker 02

  Starts off jumping out of the cake, by the end Navy SEAL. That happened in the nineties all the time.

• 1:52:47Bill Simmons?

  Not a single gym scene with her in this entire movie.

• 1:52:50Speaker 01

  Doesn't make sense.

• 1:52:51Bill Simmons?

  Go to Equinox all the time. Two hours, nothing.

• 1:52:55Bill Simmons?

  Sequel, prequel, prestige, TV, all black cast are untouchable. I'd like to present to you Single Black Female, starring Amber Riley and Kay Michelle.

• 1:53:03Speaker 02

  Shout out to, shout out to Amber Riley.

• 1:53:05Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. There's a second one. There's a whole franchise now. I've not seen this.

• 1:53:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:11Bill Simmons?

  Is this movie better than Wayne Jenkins, Fergie the Flora, St. Lo, Robert Evans, Dr. Charles Nichols, or someone else?

• 1:53:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, Wayne Jenkins fits right in. Called up from Baltimore to New York, takes the Amtrak, the Acela Express. There is apparently a detective character in the book, Detective Sergeant Kennedy.

• 1:53:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:27Speaker 01

  So there's a role, and frankly, to your point earlier about it's a really small character set in a small cast, kind of like need the police to be involved at some point in this movie?

• 1:53:36Bill Simmons?

  Yep.

• 1:53:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, so...

• 1:53:38Bill Simmons?

  So this one could be a better scripted series, almost.

• 1:53:40Speaker 01

  Oh, that would be great. Wayne Jenkins, like, I didn't know we were dealing with super software engineer. You know, get Wayne up there.

• 1:53:48Speaker 02

  Goddamn, Ally.

• 1:53:49Speaker 04

  The other pick is nit based on that. You're so right. Like, so the second Ally puts the TV up too loud, like, the whole building comes and checks on her, yet there's gunshots with Steven Tobolowsky, no one's there.

• 1:53:58Bill Simmons?

  Right. Five shots.

• 1:54:01Speaker 01

  Crazy.

• 1:54:02Bill Simmons?

  I had for this, uh, Mike Breen.

• 1:54:06Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:54:07Bill Simmons?

  Oh. Who's now in the finals.

• 1:54:08Speaker 02

  Bang!

• 1:54:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, with Ally whirling around, "The high here, fam!"

• 1:54:12Speaker 01

  Great one, great one.

• 1:54:14Bill Simmons?

  Uh, just want to ask her who gets it.

• 1:54:16Speaker 02

  Hetty, easy.

• 1:54:17Speaker 01

  Jennifer Jason-Leigh, no question.

• 1:54:18Speaker 02

  Hetty, easy. Jennifer Jason-Leigh, easy. No?

• 1:54:20Speaker 01

  You think it's Fonda?

• 1:54:22Bill Simmons?

  Steven Weber?

• 1:54:26Bill Simmons?

  No, I think it's Hetty. Hetty, if it could have been Best Supporting Actress, she had a chance. Probably in answerables, we did, did Hetty kill her twin sister or not?

• 1:54:34Speaker 02

  I got another one.

• 1:54:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:37Speaker 02

  Would Hetty have died of hantavirus anyway?

• 1:54:41Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 1:54:43Speaker 02

  Had she not been killed?

• 1:54:44Speaker 01

  Did she sniff any rat shit?

• 1:54:45Speaker 02

  She got a rat thrown on her.

• 1:54:47Speaker 01

  She did. Did she, did she inhale?

• 1:54:48Speaker 02

  She had open wounds.

• 1:54:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:49Speaker 02

  Like...

• 1:54:50Bill Simmons?

  Hanta Hetty.

• 1:54:51Speaker 02

  She got a rat thrown on her, she had open wounds on her. Would she not have died of hantavirus anyway?

• 1:54:56Bill Simmons?

  Did Hetty create hantavirus?

• 1:54:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:54:58Speaker 01

  Great one.

• 1:54:59Bill Simmons?

  I mentioned, I'm not sure Grimm's in the final scene. I have one more big one. Did you, did you have one, Mal?

• 1:55:04Speaker 01

  We've hit a bunch. Like, how many people has Hetty killed? Uh, does Ally have a psychotic break like Hetty at the end? Uh, what, what is your explanation for how Ally got the rent control department in a professional dispute and settlement with a former business partner? You walked off with the hardware and a rent control department. Is that a thing that happens?

• 1:55:22Speaker 02

  No, I would have no clue. I'm not even sure I really know all the rules around rent control stuff. I have no clue. I have no frame of New York reference for that type of thing.

• 1:55:30Speaker 01

  Bizarre.

• 1:55:31Bill Simmons?

  My big one is, uh... How did Sam's funeral go? Like, let's walk through that for an hour.

• 1:55:36Speaker 01

  Does the ex-wife Lisa give a eulogy?

• 1:55:38Bill Simmons?

  Ex-wife's there, probably hates Ally's guts.

• 1:55:41Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:55:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:42Bill Simmons?

  The parents are there. They're gonna want a story for how their beloved son Sam died, and the story is...

• 1:55:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:49Bill Simmons?

  Oh, Sam's fiance had this crazy roommate that dressed up like Ally and went to his apartment. They had sex, and then she killed him with a high heel.

• 1:56:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:01Bill Simmons?

  Ally, it's great to see you, though.

• 1:56:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, what's up? How are you doing?

• 1:56:04Bill Simmons?

  Like, that is one of the most awkward thirty minutes.

• 1:56:06Speaker 01

  Swing by at the holidays.

• 1:56:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:07Speaker 01

  We'd love to stay in touch.

• 1:56:08Bill Simmons?

  Hey, Ally, if it's cool, can you not come to the lunch after the funeral?

• 1:56:13Speaker 02

  It could be a little weird. It could be even deeper. The family could have always liked the ex-wife in the first place, didn't want them to get divorced. So now, you young New York whippersnapper got our son killed, and then, at the same time, your friend Graham is behind you saying, "Hey, stop all that fucking crying. Don't cry no more." It's a feud, don't, he wouldn't, you can't bring him back. Stop fucking crying, it was weird.

• 1:56:34Bill Simmons?

  The ex-wife is definitely like, "She did this."

• 1:56:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:56:37Bill Simmons?

  It's her.

• 1:56:38Speaker 02

  He would have been with me.

• 1:56:39Bill Simmons?

  She's the one that murdered him. The memorabilia you'd most want from this movie is clearly the high heel.

• 1:56:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:56:46Speaker 01

  I think it has to be the slow.

• 1:56:47Bill Simmons?

  I'd put that right behind Ben right now. It'd be dangling over him.

• 1:56:49Speaker 01

  Oh, you should get it.

• 1:56:50Speaker 02

  You should.

• 1:56:51Speaker 01

  You could probably find that prop somewhere.

• 1:56:53Bill Simmons?

  I would, all the props are out of control now.

• 1:56:56Speaker 01

  Well, make it happen. I think you deserve it, treat yourself. The wig would also be great.

• 1:57:00Speaker 02

  Are all the props out of control?

• 1:57:01Bill Simmons?

  The prop market is out of control.

• 1:57:03Speaker 02

  I am so fucked up in the head. Literally, when you said that, I was thinking like Terry Rozier.

• 1:57:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Coach Finstock, Mr. Miyagi, where best worst life lesson?

• 1:57:15Bill Simmons?

  I don't know, check your roommates more carefully.

• 1:57:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, pet-proof your apartment. Also, it's okay to live alone. How about that one? It's okay to live alone.

• 1:57:22Bill Simmons?

  Make Sam pay for it for a couple of months. Best double feature choice, Ben.

• 1:57:27Speaker 02

  I went with the net. I don't know why.

• 1:57:30Bill Simmons?

  Go internet, yeah, little nineties internet.

• 1:57:32Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:57:33Speaker 02

  Sandra Bullock.

• 1:57:34Bill Simmons?

  Female apparel.

• 1:57:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, whole deal. I went with the net.

• 1:57:38Speaker 01

  I like it.

• 1:57:38Bill Simmons?

  I did Hand That Rocks The Cradle because it's the finals of the two dumbest characters from a nineties movie.

• 1:57:43Speaker 01

  That's a great one.

• 1:57:44Bill Simmons?

  Just ignoring mounting evidence that something sinister is happening.

• 1:57:48Speaker 02

  I fucking forgot something. I gotta ask you about it right now. I know we're getting to the end. This fucking cha- character is crazy. You could put the hand that rocks the cradle breastfeeding situation in there as well. What is crazier? Coming down the stairs with the hair or the breastfeeding of a fucking kid? Okay, go ahead.

• 1:58:08Bill Simmons?

  It's more, what gets a more visceral reaction from your girlfriend? Or wife as they're watching this, the breastfeeding scene? Or the I'm walking down the stairs, I just took your hairdo?

• 1:58:21Speaker 01

  I think it's the hair.

• 1:58:23Speaker 02

  You think it's the hair more than the titty?

• 1:58:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. The hair is crazy.

• 1:58:27Speaker 02

  Boy, that scene used to drive him crazy.

• 1:58:29Bill Simmons?

  That got an actual gasp in the theater, which I remember when I saw Hand That Rocks The Cradle.

• 1:58:35Speaker 01

  They're both bad.

• 1:58:36Bill Simmons?

  Brings the, she brings the boob out. It's like, oh no, oh.

• 1:58:41Speaker 02

  By the way, I submit something. Both the hand that rocks the cradle, but more specifically, single white female underrated date movie.

• 1:58:50Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:58:51Speaker 02

  Underrated.

• 1:58:52Bill Simmons?

  Something for everybody.

• 1:58:52Speaker 02

  Oh, you have that? Underrated date movie.

• 1:58:54Bill Simmons?

  Something for everybody.

• 1:58:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:58:55Speaker 01

  All erotic thrillers are good date movies?

• 1:58:57Bill Simmons?

  What did you have for double feature?

• 1:58:58Speaker 01

  I was gonna go with Fatal Attraction because of the Bunny Boyle and Balcony Buddy.

• 1:59:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:59:01Speaker 01

  Which is painful, but they are of a piece. Yeah.

• 1:59:04Speaker 02

  Tough.

• 1:59:04Bill Simmons?

  I just, even though we've already done our rewatchables, just watched it two weeks ago to get ready for From Hell Man.

• 1:59:10Speaker 01

  Always appropriate.

• 1:59:10Bill Simmons?

  Extraordinary movie.

• 1:59:11Speaker 01

  Just incredible.

• 1:59:12Speaker 02

  Fatal Attraction?

• 1:59:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's great.

• 1:59:14Bill Simmons?

  Extraordinary.

• 1:59:15Speaker 01

  Great one.

• 1:59:17Bill Simmons?

  The courting scene is, is when there's like, oh, it's pouring rain. Let's get a drink.

• 1:59:21Speaker 01

  The best.

• 1:59:21Speaker 02

  It's, it's the voicemail, the answer machine message for me. She is so.

• 1:59:27Bill Simmons?

  I will not be ignored, man.

• 1:59:29Speaker 02

  Not be ignored. She is so fucking pissed.

• 1:59:31Speaker 01

  Alex, what a character.

• 1:59:32Bill Simmons?

  She's amazing in that movie.

• 1:59:33Speaker 02

  She's phenomenal.

• 1:59:34Bill Simmons?

  Who won the movie?

• 1:59:36Speaker 01

  Jennifer Jason-Leigh.

• 1:59:37Speaker 02

  Pretty, yeah. She's the most like enduring character from the movie.

• 1:59:42Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 1:59:44Bill Simmons?

  I don't know because part of who won the movie is who won it over the next few years, right? And this combined with Singles is the Bridget Fonda moment.

• 1:59:55Bill Simmons?

  But I think Jennifer Jason Lee is the best person in the movie. I don't know. I don't. It's kind of both.

• 1:59:59Speaker 01

  They're both great. They're both great.

• 2:00:02Bill Simmons?

  Craig, who won the movie?

• 2:00:04Speaker 04

  Probably Jennifer Jason Lee.

• 2:00:06Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 2:00:06Speaker 04

  Fonda's kind of a visionary, though. She's, I'm gonna remember her forever.

• 2:00:10Bill Simmons?

  Craig, you never saw this movie?

• 2:00:12Speaker 04

  No.

• 2:00:13Bill Simmons?

  What were your thoughts?

• 2:00:14Speaker 04

  Watched with Liz. Um, I found this movie to be refreshingly watchable. I thought it was gonna be, like, from a violence and horror standpoint, relatively tame. I feel like nowadays, like, the weed is just stronger now. Like, movies like Obsession, which is like another kind of like sexual psycho thriller that's out right now, that movie's super gory. It's just, you can take a date to a single white female and probably not have to, like, get her consent first because this movie might be fucking terrifying. A movie like Obsession, you kind of just can't go to that movie. I'm saying, like, you have to point somebody on, like, Obsession, be like, yo, we're going to a date to see this movie. It might be fucking terrifying. This movie's like, kind of right in that sweet spot where it's scary and creepy and weird, but like,

• 2:00:57Speaker 04

  it's still poppy and it's more of just a fun conversation on the way home and you're not scared to go back to your apartment, which I liked.

• 2:01:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:03Speaker 01

  I will not be seeing Obsession scared.

• 2:01:07Speaker 04

  Liz, Liz's main takeaway was that every woman in her life has, has come across a heady. And it's whether or not you kind of get, can escape it or not.

• 2:01:17Bill Simmons?

  Extricate yourself from the heady.

• 2:01:19Speaker 02

  So, there was a situation in our crew one time where two guys wanted the same jacket.

• 2:01:26Speaker 02

  One of my friends had a jacket.

• 2:01:28Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:28Speaker 02

  And the other one of my friends wanted that same jacket. The only problem was that this jacket that my one friend had bought was at Wilson's, the leather store in the mall Louisiana in Baton Rouge. And the reason why he was able to afford the jacket is because his girlfriend, future wife, worked at the store. So the only way my other friend could afford the jacket is that she gave him the discount.

• 2:01:55Speaker 02

  Well, my first homeboy, who was the owner of the jacket, didn't want him to have it.

• 2:01:58Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 2:01:59Speaker 02

  Didn't want him to have the same jacket. So he told his girl, don't give him the discount. He then went behind his back to the girl directly. And asked her for the discount and then tried to play with her brain a little bit. Hmm. To make her give up the discount. I remember when we were having this conversation as a crew, I remember my homeboy being like, yo, man, this some single white female type shit that you on right now. And that's the only time I could ever think of anything like that happening amongst men. Because when you talk to ladies, always this bitch trying to dress like me. She trying to fuck my man. She trying to be me. She trying to, all of this shit, I gotta get the fuck away from this bitch. I've heard that so much.

• 2:02:40Speaker 04

  Also, we didn't talk about the single funniest scene in the movie, which was when Hedy goes down into the basement and quickly gets in the suitcase to see if a body fit.

• 2:02:49Speaker 04

  I was like, what is she, is she hiding in the suitcase?

• 2:02:51Speaker 01

  More sloppy work from the person who left the bloody heels out. She's taller than you.

• 2:02:55Speaker 04

  That's so good.

• 2:02:56Speaker 01

  Terrible.

• 2:02:56Speaker 04

  Also, Apex Mountain for bobs, probably, early 90s, right? You have Demi Moore Ghost.

• 2:03:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:03:01Speaker 04

  You have this, you have Halle Berry Boomerang.

• 2:03:03Speaker 02

  That was a very popular haircut.

• 2:03:05Speaker 04

  I don't know if it was, is it a bob, is it a pixie?

• 2:03:06Speaker 01

  I think this is more pixie.

• 2:03:08Bill Simmons?

  It was coming out of the 80s, because we had, remember, we did Legend of Billie Jean?

• 2:03:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:03:12Bill Simmons?

  That was a different version.

• 2:03:13Speaker 01

  Everyone remembers that.

• 2:03:13Bill Simmons?

  It was a little longer on the, on the bottom. This was just more like, kind of boy hair.

• 2:03:17Speaker 02

  Gotta have a great neck for that.

• 2:03:18Speaker 04

  There's just such great stickiness to these like early 90s movies because of the era you're in. Like the computers, everything, the way it feels, it's so memorable and specific.

• 2:03:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03:26Speaker 04

  It's great.

• 2:03:27Speaker 01

  You watch the movie, you know exactly where you are.

• 2:03:28Speaker 04

  It's like, my double feature would be Disclosure for the same reason. Like, the feeling of the tech in that movie in the office.

• 2:03:33Speaker 01

  That's a, that's a good pick.

• 2:03:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:34Speaker 04

  It's so good.

• 2:03:36Bill Simmons?

  I, I really wish I could tell stories from the last three decades with my wife, of different tiny, single way female situations that popped up. It would easily be a divorce.

• 2:03:45Speaker 04

  It'd be a good podcast.

• 2:03:46Bill Simmons?

  She'd be so mad at me.

• 2:03:47Speaker 01

  That would be epic.

• 2:03:48Bill Simmons?

  There's been so many good ones. I have so many things to say and I'm just not going to.

• 2:03:51Speaker 02

  But to me, the thing that always gets me about it is, at first, I'm almost always dismissive of these stories. First, you come up to me, okay, somebody else is trying to be, because sometimes it's your girl telling it, sometimes it's your girl's friend telling it. All right, she want to be like, and then you sit down and you listen to the shit and you be like, nah, she fucking crazy for real.

• 2:04:11Speaker 04

  I feel like times have changed. I feel like in the 90s, you gave people the benefit of the doubt, now you don't.

• 2:04:15Speaker 01

  Didn't they like basically remake this with Leighton Meester, the roommate? That was what, 2011?

• 2:04:21Bill Simmons?

  It wasn't a basically.

• 2:04:22Speaker 01

  They remade this.

• 2:04:23Bill Simmons?

  It was her and Minka Kelly.

• 2:04:25Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:04:25Bill Simmons?

  And it was just a complete ripoff of it.

• 2:04:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:04:27Bill Simmons?

  Um, but was missing the part where neither of them were gross and became like they were both hot roommates that moved together.

• 2:04:35Speaker 04

  And they're redoing it now with Jenna Ortega, right?

• 2:04:37Speaker 01

  Well, that's an actual remake of this. Yeah. That's an interesting.

• 2:04:41Speaker 02

  Single female.

• 2:04:42Speaker 04

  Single female.

• 2:04:43Speaker 01

  Single female.

• 2:04:44Speaker 02

  Took out the white.

• 2:04:44Speaker 04

  Of course.

• 2:04:45Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:04:45Speaker 04

  Woke mob.

• 2:04:46Speaker 02

  Woke mob taking over. I can't believe it. Come on, man.

• 2:04:49Bill Simmons?

  We were past this.

• 2:04:49Speaker 02

  Anti-white racism. What the hell's going on?

• 2:04:54Bill Simmons?

  Single white female.

• 2:04:59Bill Simmons?

  What an amazing movie.

• 2:05:00Speaker 04

  Wait, what's next week? Are you gonna announce?

• 2:05:03Bill Simmons?

  Uh, I don't know what next week is, but if you go on Netflix, we got them to license a bunch of From Hell movies.

• 2:05:10Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 2:05:11Bill Simmons?

  Including, I think The Good Son is on there, uh, Single White Female, Hand That Rocks The Cradle, Domestic Disturbance, the funniest movie of the 2000s, the unintentionally funniest. I can't, can't wait for Craig to watch that one. It's really gonna be special. I think Breakdown might be on there. I don't think they can get Pacificites, but uh, there's a bunch of them. So, we're trying this thing. We did it with the comedians too. We're just trying to get them to license a bunch of them and.

• 2:05:35Speaker 02

  Breakdown is the most elevated one.

• 2:05:39Bill Simmons?

  Breakdown's good.

• 2:05:40Speaker 02

  Breakdown's a good movie.

• 2:05:41Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:42Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:05:42Bill Simmons?

  Um, but I think all of these. I'm just so happy they're in our lives. I'm happy you guys are in my life.

• 2:05:47Speaker 01

  What a treat.

• 2:05:48Bill Simmons?

  Van.

• 2:05:49Speaker 02

  Lot of fun.

• 2:05:49Bill Simmons?

  Thanks, Craig. Thanks, Gahow. Uh, we'll see you next week on From Hell Week. From Hell Month. From Hell Summer. We know what it's gonna be.