Pod Insights The Rewatchables 'Sicario' With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey About this episode The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey form a special task force and head to El Paso to revisit Denis Villeneuve’s 2015 crime thriller, ‘Sicario,’ starring Emily Blunt, Benicio del Toro, and Josh Brolin.
Producers: Craig Horlbeck, Chia Hao Tat, Eduardo Ocampo, and Matt Pevic
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Transcript 25,299 words · 10 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Bill Simmons? This episode is brought to by Angry Orchard Hard Cider. Halloween's just better with a scary movie and something good to drink. Angry Orchard's limited edition glow-in-the-dark thriller variety pack is the perfect companion. It even includes a mystery flavor can featuring the iconic ghost face from Scream. Don't get angry, get orchard this Halloween. Find Angry Orchard in a store near you or visit angryorchard.com. Angry Orchard, cider company, LLC. Angryorchard.com. Please drink responsibly. Angry Orchard is a hard cider with other natural flavors.
0:44 Bill Simmons? All right, Rewatchables live. We're just talking basketball here, 3:00 PM Pacific time. I'm Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fantasy, and it is CR month. This is happening. CR, you got your own month. People thought like you're either leaving the ring or dying, and neither. You're healthy. No, you just love me. You're healthy, you're here. You've been pushing for these movies for a long time. Yeah. That's Chris Ryan, you can find him on The Watch. That is Sean Fantasy from The Big Picture. We've been doing the Rewatchables since 2017. This is our first live podcast, right? Yeah, I think so. On Netflix, yeah. All right, here's the part where I awkwardly throw to break, and then we'll be back in one second.
1:25 Bill Simmons? This episode of the Rewatchables is presented by TikTok. The online world moves fast. That's why TikTok approaches teen safety with families in mind. From the start on TikTok, teens get over 50 built-in protections right when they join. Their accounts are private by default, for those under 16, direct messages are turned off. Only friends can comment on their videos. When safety comes first, discovery can follow. Learn more at tiktok.com/guardiansguide.
2:14 Bill Simmons? Sicario is a 2015 American action crime thriller film directed by Denis Villeneuve.
2:21 Chris Ryan? Yes.
2:22 Bill Simmons? Written by Taylor Sheridan in his screenwriting debut and starring Emily Blunt, Benita Del Toro, and Josh Brolin. I got that off of Wikipedia. CR, you love this movie.
2:31 Chris Ryan? I adore this movie.
2:32 Bill Simmons? You blogged about it for The Dear Leader Part of Grantland in September of 2015. One of your best pieces of work.
2:38 Chris Ryan? Thanks.
2:39 Bill Simmons? You have been advocating for this, for the rewatchables, for some time. It finished 41st on my most rewatchable movies of the 21st century's ranking, which caused you to jostle angrily in your seat and wonder if it was a bit.
2:53 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
2:54 Bill Simmons? I've watched it three times since. I probably would move it up now.
2:57 Chris Ryan? Top 30?
2:58 Bill Simmons? Yeah, maybe.
2:59 Sean Fennessey? Higher or lower than 16?
3:01 Bill Simmons? Limitless is higher. I've watched it.
3:03 Chris Ryan? You think Limitless is better than Sicario?
3:04 Bill Simmons? I, Limitless, probably is top 12 at this point. What is it? What is it about this movie, CR?
3:09 Chris Ryan? This movie just engages every part of my movie-watching brain. The, every frame of every shot of every scene is interesting to look at. The story, the dialogue, the themes are deeply, like, fascinating to watch play out. And all of the performances are unique and wonderful, but, you know, even though they are expressing like an individual performance, they are all like in sync and in tune with each other. It's just like a perfect movie to me.
3:37 Bill Simmons? And you're a big fan of Dallas Villanova, the director.
3:41 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
3:41 Chris Ryan? Dallas Villanova.
3:42 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, Jimmy Vills, one of my favorite filmmakers.
3:47 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, he's got a name like an Islanders forward circa 1983.
3:52 Bill Simmons? He knew Guy Lefleur.
3:53 Chris Ryan? He likes to muck it up in the corners.
3:55 Sean Fennessey? But he's got, you know, he's like a little bit Ridley Scott, a little bit Stanley Kubrick. He's like a really nice little mixture of a filmmaker for me. So I really love his movies. This is by far my favorite of his movies.
4:05 Chris Ryan? This is his best movie.
4:07 Bill Simmons? It feels more timely than ever. Wrote that one down. Things have been happening in in Mexico. And anytime anything happens in Mexico, it's hard not to send your brain back. At from a rewatchability standpoint, which is the whole point of this podcast. This movie has a few different entry points. But you could just start from the beginning and you're just off for five minutes. You can wait a little later until we're doing the drop off or whatever we're trying to do. And we're going through border patrol. We could go to the the guys descending into darkness as we go into the night goggles in the tunnel. Or you could just watch the end as Del Toro takes out an entire crime lord and his family.
4:45 Chris Ryan? Yes.
4:46 Bill Simmons? Um, four entry points here.
4:48 Chris Ryan? Yeah, you know what? The structure of this movie is pretty fascinating. When I wrote that Grantland piece, I compared it. I compared Sicario to Apocalypse Now, and I still feel like.
4:56 Bill Simmons? I liked it.
4:57 Chris Ryan? It's my, it's our Apocalypse Now. Like it is a movie of our lifetime about a war that is seemingly never ending, that very few people truly understand. And maybe can't be understood. But one of the reasons why I think that that comp holds is the way that it kind of peaks viscerally in the, I think, 31st minute of the movie.
5:18 Bill Simmons? Mm hmm.
5:19 Chris Ryan? And that's not unlike the Flight of the Valkyries scene in Apocalypse Now. And then the rest of the film is much deeper and more contemplative than the that then the rest of the film is just way more contemplative than the beginning of the film. It's way more about this woman learning about the morality and the sense of justice that she's exploring. But like, do you think that that comparison holds?
5:45 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, I mean, it's not as epic as Apocalypse Now, but I think it's really smart. I mean, I think it's also, I was, I wrote down that I really like a movie with a debrief, where there's like, men go into a room and some men have important information and other men don't have that information and they're being brought into the scheme. And there's a very famous one in Apocalypse Now.
6:04 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
6:04 Sean Fennessey? Where Harrison Ford is sitting there quietly as like a menacing officer. And Martin Sheen's character is brought in and his mission is explained to him. And it's almost like duplicated perfectly in this movie with the setup where we see Kate, you know, sitting outside of the glass room where Graver and the FBI and the DOD and the CIA people.
6:25 Chris Ryan? Yes.
6:25 Sean Fennessey? And like. It's a movie for, for, for adults, like, and I don't mean that in a sexual way. Like, it's a movie for, like, you wouldn't be nine years old and interested in this movie, really. Yeah, exactly. It's morally complicated, it's about history, it's about like, actual contemporary conflict, to your point. They're very serious. I don't know if it has quite the same level of like,
6:46 Chris Ryan? Mysticism?
6:47 Sean Fennessey? Like opera?
6:47 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
6:48 Sean Fennessey? That isn't Apocalypse Now? You know?
6:50 Bill Simmons? Well, it was made by people who were doing drugs and having a heart attack as they were making the film.
6:55 Chris Ryan? Dennis Hopper is not in it.
6:55 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, it's more controlled, right? And it's tighter, it's two hours. But I, but thematically, the big idea is like, going to the scary place.
7:04 Chris Ryan? Just going, it's going up the river, it's going through the tunnel, it's arriving on some other side where your, your view of the world has been completely changed.
7:12 Bill Simmons? Well, you left out, also, you have the Kurtz character.
7:15 Chris Ryan? Sure.
7:15 Bill Simmons? You did this in your blog.
7:16 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
7:17 Bill Simmons? Called a blog or an essay?
7:18 Chris Ryan? I was just a blog post, yeah. Just jamming it out.
7:20 Bill Simmons? I would have given you essay.
7:21 Sean Fennessey? What about think piece?
7:22 Bill Simmons? Think piece. But the Kurtz, Del Toro is Kurtz, right? And then Emily Blunt's character just descending into, by the end of the movie, she's just a shivering puddle of, of just,
7:36 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
7:36 Bill Simmons? what the hell is gonna happen in the rest of her life? That's basically Martin Sheen.
7:39 Chris Ryan? Right.
7:40 Bill Simmons? In Apocalypse. What's gonna happen to him?
7:41 Chris Ryan? It's Wilford, yeah.
7:42 Bill Simmons? He's seen too much, too much has happened, he's lost his mind.
7:46 Chris Ryan? And Brolin is a pretty functional Kilgore character, which is the Robert Duvall character in Apocalypse Now, which is a person who seems to almost get like, a sensory high from being in this incredibly chaotic, incredibly violent world.
7:58 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, reveling in the mania.
8:00 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
8:00 Bill Simmons? One of the things I like about this movie is I probably had to see it multiple times before I fully understood what was happening. Cause it's really complicated. And even when you get to the FBI, CIA, CIA part of it all, what they're trying to do with her, the chess game of bringing her in, and the reasons behind that, you're just not gonna really get that on the first, uh, first airing of that.
8:21 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
8:21 Bill Simmons? You know what you're gonna get, though? Probably a lawnmower in the background on our live rewatchables. And if to send a text about that one. Good times.
8:29 Chris Ryan? You want us to vamp?
8:30 Bill Simmons? We knew anything could happen.
8:31 Speaker 03 This is live.
8:33 Bill Simmons? How about a lawnmower? I had lessons for, uh, from Sicario. Did this for a couple of movies. One lesson is to, uh, tell the lawnmower guy not to be outside the window. I have to do a live pod.
8:48 Chris Ryan? If you want to send a text, Sean and I could keep talking.
8:51 Bill Simmons? Shut the door.
8:51 Speaker 03 Is that Fransio del Toro on the lawnmower?
8:53 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
8:54 Bill Simmons? It might not be my house. Lessons from Sicario. There's no right, only degrees of wrong.
9:02 Chris Ryan? Right.
9:04 Bill Simmons? Sometimes the ends justify the means. Allegedly. Sometimes it's not personal, it's business, it's, I'm sorry. Sometimes it's not business, it's personal. Isn't working when it's really, really personal for the other side.
9:19 Bill Simmons? The personal's gonna trump the business.
9:21 Chris Ryan? Sure.
9:21 Bill Simmons? Don't expect your movie hero to end up the hero all the time in a movie. This movie sets up the Emily Blunt. Oh, it's gonna be her movie. And it's just not by the end of the movie. America is a little more responsible for the drug war than we want to admit. And then finally, you will doubt everything we do, but in the end you'll understand. Which is an actual quote from Alejandro. And he says it early in the movie, and that's the key quote from the movie. You will doubt everything we do, but in the end you will understand. Do you think she understood by the end?
9:52 Chris Ryan? I think she accepted. I don't know if she understood, but I think she accepted what,
9:58 Chris Ryan? what was going on around her and how she, how she, she was told to play a part in all of this.
10:04 Speaker 03 Should, can we talk about Kate?
10:05 Bill Simmons? Yeah, let's do it.
10:07 Speaker 03 Is Kate a good character? Kate Mercer, the FBI agent?
10:10 Chris Ryan? She's a little bit of a cipher, I think. You know, I think that, I was thinking about the comparison. I've seen some other folks make it. The relationship between Kate and Alejandro, like the same as Clarice and Hannibal Lecter.
10:23 Speaker 03 Mm-hmm.
10:23 Chris Ryan? And this idea of like a novice, innocent.
10:28 Chris Ryan? Idealistic person going in and meeting with someone whose experiences will shape her and can are the key to unlocking all of the truth of the world and what happens to that person when you get on the other side. Clarice obviously has like the backstory of her father. There's a little bit more stuff in there about the sexism of the FBI and Kate kind of moves through this movie more or less like a guy. You know what I mean? Like I think Taylor Sheridan has talked a lot about like, everybody's like, how did you write such a powerful female character? And, you know, it's a little bit of a back pat for him, but I, I, I think that she's a good character. She's not a deep character.
11:06 Bill Simmons? He backpatted himself on that?
11:08 Chris Ryan? No, but he was just like, I, I think that he was saying that when he first was pitching this script, a lot of producers or some producers were like, great, can you make Kate a man? And we'll cast this person as Kate.
11:19 Sean Fennessey? Yeah. If this can be Chris Pine, we're good to go.
11:21 Chris Ryan? If you call him Cade.
11:24 Bill Simmons? It just sounds a little Trump-esque where he's like, a lot of people are saying this is a really powerful character. Yeah, they flipped the Clarice Starling thing on us, which makes me think Silence of the Lambs actually weirdly helps this movie. Cause you're watching, you're like, oh, this is the Clarice. She's gonna come in here and, and it's actually not that. And she's just gonna get broken down and be questioning all of her professional decisions by the end of it. I have a bunch of stuff to go through here. The first one is that it was released on September 19th, 2015. Same weekend as The Martian.
11:59 Chris Ryan? Yep.
12:00 Bill Simmons? We really knew what we were doing 10 years ago, guys.
12:03 Sean Fennessey? I mean, you, you're in my what's age of the worst right now. That The Martian and Robert Zemeckis's The Walk were released on the same day, which means three original adult dramas opened wide against one another in 2015. That would never happen today.
12:18 Bill Simmons? Forgot about The Walk. I didn't even think I ended up seeing it.
12:20 Sean Fennessey? I mean, it turned out to be a dud, but that was like, it's a big movie, you know? It's a remake of a documentary about a famous event that happened, you know?
12:26 Chris Ryan? I forgot about that. Yeah. The, The Martian and, and Sicario, really good comparisons too of my favorite kind of movie, which is basically, it's like Heat, it's like Training Day, it's like Primal Fear or The Firm, where you go in expecting. A baseline like floor of an experience because it's the genre that you like.
12:47 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
12:47 Chris Ryan? And then if you get somebody like Ridley Scott or Denis Villeneuve or Christopher Nolan or Michael Mann directing one of those movies. Like that pop that you feel when you're like, oh shit. This is gonna be even better than just okay.
13:00 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
13:01 Chris Ryan? Like this could be great and you're watching it like. I think I saw Sicario like immediately twice in the theater, which I only do with movies like this.
13:08 Sean Fennessey? Oh, you doubled up?
13:09 Chris Ryan? Yeah, I think it was like a real like, I have to go back like in a day or two.
13:13 Bill Simmons? Craig, you were nineteen, two thousand fifteen?
13:16 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
13:16 Bill Simmons? So did you Sicario or Martian?
13:19 Chris Ryan? Martian.
13:20 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I think Martian kinda blew it out of the water a little bit.
13:22 Chris Ryan? I did, I saw them both, but Martian was the one to go out and see first. It was a more commercial movie.
13:27 Sean Fennessey? It was a much bigger hit.
13:28 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Also, like at the time, nobody really knew the director, we just knew him from Prisoners. If you're like for actual mainstream movies.
13:36 Chris Ryan? It was Matt Damon in space versus a gritty movie about the drug cartel.
13:41 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
13:41 Chris Ryan? In the moment, it was easy to choose Martian.
13:43 Bill Simmons? Also, it was a movie with stars, but they weren't stars. They were like that next level down, almost like putting together.
13:51 Chris Ryan? Yes.
13:52 Bill Simmons? A really good basketball team without a franchise guy. It was Emily Blunt, Josh Brolin, Del Toro.
13:57 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
13:58 Bill Simmons? Daniel Kaluuya, nobody knew who he was at that point. But it's all, Berthold, who was like the Walking Dead guy at that point.
14:04 Sean Fennessey? But this is how.
14:05 Bill Simmons? Very smartly cast.
14:06 Sean Fennessey? It's the kinda movie that makes stars in a way.
14:08 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
14:09 Sean Fennessey? You know, like, obviously Del Toro was extremely well known, had already won an Oscar, but was a perfect use of him. Brolin, you know, had been a part of big movies to that point. You never would be like A plus movie star, but.
14:21 Chris Ryan? This is like Brolin going to another level right here, which is this Everest and he does the cameo at the end of Avengers this year.
14:28 Sean Fennessey? Right.
14:29 Chris Ryan? And so he becomes Thanos and a giant movie star. Whereas I think from No Country On, it had been like, wow, Josh Brolin's like really good and like you should have it, like he should be in your movie and he's an American gangster and, and milk and stuff like that. But like this is when he starts just going to another level.
14:47 Bill Simmons? This movie did not get nominated for Best Picture.
14:51 Sean Fennessey? I don't think it was even ever really under consideration.
14:52 Bill Simmons? Spotlight won it. Big Short, Bridges of Spies, Brooklyn, Mad Max: Fury Road, The Martian, The Revenant, and Room.
14:58 Chris Ryan? Good movie year.
14:59 Sean Fennessey? Famously a pretty interesting slate and the Spotlight won that year, but like, maybe everybody feels like Mad Max: Fury Road was kind of the way to go this year or that year ultimately.
15:08 Chris Ryan? What a great movie year.
15:09 Sean Fennessey? It was a good year.
15:11 Bill Simmons? You know why Spotlight won? This is what I heard.
15:13 Chris Ryan? Cause they did!
15:17 Bill Simmons? Taylor Sheridan, first screenplay ever. He's a frustrated actor. Kicks off one of the most impactful and lucrative 11-plus year screenwriting runs anyone's ever had.
15:28 Chris Ryan? Amazing what if here because, you know, Sheridan famously like kind of frustrated character actor had been on like Sons of Anarchy and stuff and wanted to write his own material. This is an amazing first script. I read the script.
15:42 Chris Ryan? It's pretty different in not so much in tone, the story and the dialogue is all in the script. They cut so much and that is something that I imagine would not happen today if Taylor Sheridan was writing a feature film.
15:57 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
15:58 Chris Ryan? I would imagine that he would be like, the condition is you shoot this move, this script as is.
16:03 Bill Simmons? Well, we should talk about that because this is the key thing that happened.
16:06 Sean Fennessey? Or it turns into a 10-episode season.
16:08 Bill Simmons? Or there's more dialogue.
16:10 Chris Ryan? Yeah, it just turns into Lioness.
16:11 Bill Simmons? Yeah, they just, even for Del Toro's character, the director cut 90% of the dialogue he was supposed to say because they decided as they're making the movie, it's actually better if he's a little more mysterious and it's the best decision they made.
16:24 Chris Ryan? Incredible decision.
16:25 Bill Simmons? His character, all the little stuff, I think this is one of the reasons this movie's so rewatchable and so good. All the little things they do to set you up. There's a lot of like show don't tell stuff that you could teach in screenwriting classes. Like that, that nightmare that he has in the plane is so important. That could also have been a scene where he's like, yeah, 20 years ago, and he just tells the sob story.
16:46 Chris Ryan? In the screenplay, you see the dream. In the screenplay, his dream is shown.
16:50 Bill Simmons? Really?
16:51 Chris Ryan? Yeah. In the screenplay, the movie opens with like a VO of Alejandro talking about Mexico. Like, there's so much more stuff in the script. It's an interesting document to read. It's pretty widely available on Google, online, to look at.
17:04 Bill Simmons? Sounds like you like this movie, CR.
17:05 Chris Ryan? I do. Dude, this is a really good bit from Villanueva about the screenplay and working with Del Toro. And it's like, Villanueva said, "Dialogue for me is theater, an art for the stage. Cinema is not about dialogue. It's about images and moments and present tense. Benicio can convey way more, by the way he breathes in front of a camera, than any line, the way he portrays tension, the way you feel when you see him." So, so much of this movie that's successful, and parts that I remember, are all like a gesture Roland will make, like when he's just like to dramatically overreact, and he just kind of like puts his hands out a little bit.
17:45 Chris Ryan? And it's like, the hands make it, the like, the pairing it back is what makes it.
17:51 Sean Fennessey? I would also take it one step further and say that the movie is not really very interested in psychology, psychologizing any of its characters. Like, it is not really about explaining backstory, but it's also not even about saying like, what could have happened to this person that made them this way? We know specifically that Del Toro's character has that, and that's the motivating thing. But the first time you watch the movie, you're not like where I land on the movie, which is that this is Benicio Del Toro's movie, like that he is the titular character.
18:17 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
18:17 Sean Fennessey? It is about him. And even though Emily Blunt is our perspective character, it's not about her.
18:22 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
18:22 Sean Fennessey? She's just caught.
18:24 Chris Ryan? Yeah, it's pretty rare to have a POV character that's not the hero, I think, you know?
18:29 Bill Simmons? Yeah, there's, you could say there's a theory with this, that she's kind of the audience of the movie. And you're introduced to all this stuff through her, but ultimately, like, she can't do anything.
18:38 Sean Fennessey? I think that's right.
18:39 Bill Simmons? You're not kind of the audience.
18:40 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, I think that's right.
18:40 Bill Simmons? I don't mind that theory.
18:41 Sean Fennessey? It's a really good structure for the movie and really smart. And I feel like carving away a lot of Alejandro's dialogue makes that actually more coherent as an idea. Because if he's talking a lot and is doing VO and stuff, then you're like, okay, so we're watching a Benicio Del Toro movie, where this woman gets involved in his world.
18:58 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
18:58 Sean Fennessey? As opposed to like- A third or two thirds of the way through the movie, you're like, oh, so we're like on Alejandro's mission. He is like the change agent inside the movie. The first, I remember watching it the first time being very confused.
19:11 Chris Ryan? Sure.
19:12 Sean Fennessey? Um, maybe like a halfway point. And now when you rewatched it again, you see like all the intention, but it's one of those things where you're right. Sheridan didn't have the power back then to say, do my movie the way that you want. You know, I'm not as big a fan of Sheridan's TV shows in part because I feel like he kind of can't get out of his own way sometimes with explaining what he thinks about something.
19:30 Chris Ryan? Well, he's gotten to the point that very few writers ever have where it's just like, he runs the show. I mean, movie making is not a screenwriter's business. TV is, but even TV writers don't have the kind of carte blanche that he seems to when it comes to dictating, like, yeah, we're gonna do 10 hours, we're gonna have, like, if you watch Lioness, Lioness has set pieces that are as expensive as the ones that are in, that are in Sicario.
19:57 Bill Simmons? Once Sheridan figured out how to microdose the limitless drug, it was fucking off for that dude. He's running out of pills.
20:04 Chris Ryan? Do you think he has one that was higher than 16?
20:07 Bill Simmons? There's no question. I think, so you think it's, you think it's Kate's movie? Because Kate's the, in the first scene, and we're with her the whole time, we're following her and the structure of that. Goldman used, Goldman had a thing about this when he did The Saving Private Ryan. The movie starts with Matt Damon's character going to the cemetery, and then the flashback and it flashes back to things he couldn't have known because he wasn't there.
20:33 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
20:33 Bill Simmons? And it's like, the diehard screenwriters, some of them are like, you can't bend the rules like that, because if you're telling the movie through the, through the eyes of somebody, you can't then just shift it the other way. That's basically what they do with this.
20:44 Chris Ryan? This is also like a rule within mystery storytelling where you have to make a decision whether or not you want the audience to know as much as a character or more than a character. And so Sicario kind of plays with that a little bit because midway through the movie, pretty much when Kate goes to the bar with Reg and that's when the burn fall scene, we sort of start watching Kate the way that Kate was watching Alejandro earlier in the movie. And there's even camera moves that kind of suggest that, where it kind of shifts POV to Alejandro and it becomes his mission. And the second half of the movie is really about getting Alejandro to Fausto and all the things that they're gonna do to get him through that tunnel and into that car and into that house.
21:27 Bill Simmons? What's your Del Toro relationship?
21:30 Speaker 04 It's a good question. Usual suspects, I guess.
21:33 Bill Simmons? He really slides under the radar. He's.
21:36 Speaker 04 I know.
21:37 Bill Simmons? Like two levels below a famous star.
21:39 Speaker 04 Definitely. You're never upset to see him in a movie. He elevates every movie he's in.
21:42 Chris Ryan? He won for Traffic. I mean, right? Like, he's, he's a, he's, he's a face and an acting style that is not,
21:51 Chris Ryan? not really in vogue. You know, it's like a weathered, older face, a very,
21:58 Chris Ryan? kind of minimal acting style that's a lot about being quiet and a lot about looks and a lot about gestures.
22:03 Bill Simmons? A lot of staring. He's a very, very good stirrer.
22:05 Chris Ryan? And, you know, like a lot of our big actors now are like kind of glib, one liner machines and, and he's not like that.
22:12 Bill Simmons? He doesn't want to do that. I actually have a little Del Toro game for you.
22:15 Chris Ryan? Okay. Did you name the game?
22:17 Bill Simmons? We've never done this on Rewatchables. Yeah, every decade, if you have at least four straight decades with a banger. So he's got Usual Suspects of the 90s, Traffic 2000s, Sicario 2010s, and then One Battle this decade.
22:30 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
22:30 Bill Simmons? Four in a row. And it's like, oh, a lot of people have that. You'd be surprised.
22:34 Chris Ryan? No.
22:34 Bill Simmons? Like even if you go to Denzel, where it's like Crimson Tide 90s, we'll give him that, Man on Fire or Training Day in the 2000s. 2010s, Flight, Equalizer. Now we get to the 20s and it's like, all right, Equalizer 3? Kind of out.
22:52 Sean Fennessey? He's just not really a movie star. He's like a, a grade A movie actor. Like he-
22:59 Bill Simmons? Crucial to all of those movies, even though he wasn't the quarterback of the movie.
23:03 Sean Fennessey? Yeah. I mean, I worship him. I think he is like one of the most interesting and daring actors. And he is a rare case where you hear a lot of stories about movie stars who get on set and are like, I'm not doing that. And they seem like assholes. And Benicio is very famous for reading scripts, calling filmmakers and saying like, here's what I think this is. This is what my gut tells me. And, and- Paul Thomas Anderson and Leonardo DiCaprio have been very open in promoting one battle after another about how much Benicio changed what they intended to do with that movie.
23:34 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
23:34 Sean Fennessey? That the whole Underground Railroad period in that movie.
23:38 Chris Ryan? Back and cross stuff, yeah.
23:38 Sean Fennessey? That all that stuff is the stuff that he came up with and worked out with PTA. Basically, when he arrived on set, because he had no time to prepare because he came right from the Phoenician scheme. And they just like, kind of improvised it in a period of days, and it's the absolute heartbeat of the movie. And if that stuff isn't in the movie, the movie isn't nearly what we feel like it is. And that is like, literally him kind of acting as a writer and coming up with all those ideas for his character. The Sicario stuff is clearly very similar.
24:03 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
24:03 Sean Fennessey? Where he and Denis were like, this guy shouldn't talk. And by him not talking, but then he gets like, seven lines of dialogue that are the most memorable lines of dialogue in the movie, and he gets to do the coolest shit.
24:13 Chris Ryan? Yeah. Every line he says is memorable. And even every line he says that's memorable is like, the what he says, the last line he has to Kate, the last line he says to Fausto, you're like, I'm gonna remember that for the rest of, rest of my life. Like, when he's-
24:27 Bill Simmons? Craig, you remind me of my son. He drops that twice on her.
24:32 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
24:32 Bill Simmons? It's like his only way to really have a human interaction with anybody.
24:35 Sean Fennessey? But like, you're asking me how a watch works. You know, like, that stuff is just so, because he doesn't talk that much in the movie.
24:40 Chris Ryan? To find him would be to find a vaccine, yeah.
24:42 Bill Simmons? Five Decaders? This is the finals. De Niro, Godfather 2, Midnight Run, Heat, Meet the Parents, and Limitless.
24:53 Chris Ryan? Sure. Limitless counts.
24:55 Bill Simmons? Counts for me.
24:56 Sean Fennessey? Not the Irishman?
24:58 Bill Simmons? I'll give you the Irishman if you want to do the Irishman.
24:59 Sean Fennessey? Killers of the Fire Moon?
25:00 Bill Simmons? Fine. Cruise. Top Gun, Jerry Maguire, Collateral, Edge of Tomorrow, Maverick. Pretty tough to beat.
25:08 Sean Fennessey? That's good.
25:08 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
25:09 Bill Simmons? It's a five banger, five decades of bangers for Cruise.
25:12 Sean Fennessey? Yes.
25:12 Bill Simmons? We'll see if he can get to six.
25:13 Chris Ryan? Anybody else? Meryl?
25:15 Bill Simmons? You know, Pacino, the 2000s are rough for Pacino. You really have to squeeze two for the money in there.
25:22 Sean Fennessey? What's his 80s pick?
25:23 Bill Simmons? Scarface.
25:24 Sean Fennessey? Oh, right, that's 80, okay.
25:26 Bill Simmons? Yeah. And then, Stallone has Rocky, First Blood, Cliffhanger, 2000s are dicey, and then Creed. But 2000s falls apart a little bit.
25:34 Sean Fennessey? 2000s, what is it, like, Daylight?
25:36 Bill Simmons? It's sad how much time I spent researching this.
25:38 Chris Ryan? Stallone makes it before Meryl, though.
25:40 Bill Simmons? Well, Meryl would have Kramer versus Kramer.
25:43 Chris Ryan? 70s, right?
25:46 Bill Simmons? Pick a movie in the 80s, you could, there's like, seven of them.
25:48 Chris Ryan? Sure.
25:50 Chris Ryan? So his choice, yeah.
25:51 Bill Simmons? 90s?
25:54 Bill Simmons? Rivers Wild.
25:55 Chris Ryan? River Wild, yeah, that's pretty good.
25:57 Sean Fennessey? Bridges Madison County?
25:59 Chris Ryan? Yeah, good.
26:00 Bill Simmons? Prada in 2000s.
26:02 Chris Ryan? Uh huh.
26:02 Bill Simmons? I don't know what's 2010s.
26:04 Sean Fennessey? Iron Lady.
26:05 Bill Simmons? Post. Iron Lady.
26:06 Chris Ryan? August O'Shea County, right?
26:08 Sean Fennessey? No.
26:08 Chris Ryan? When's that?
26:09 Sean Fennessey? No, but it's 2017, but I wouldn't put it up there.
26:11 Chris Ryan? Okay.
26:12 Bill Simmons? We didn't talk about our director, third line center on the 1978 Habs. Denis Villeneuve.
26:18 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
26:19 Bill Simmons? Those power plays, he was killed with Pierre Bouchard in Martyr of Troy.
26:22 Sean Fennessey? He's number 13 all time points scored for the Edmunds Oilers.
26:25 Bill Simmons? Great job by him.
26:26 Chris Ryan? All time hockey.
26:28 Bill Simmons? Are you an Incendies guy?
26:30 Sean Fennessey? On Sunday?
26:30 Bill Simmons? On Sunday's?
26:31 Sean Fennessey? Uh.
26:32 Bill Simmons? Never saw it?
26:33 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, I mean, it's extremely gnarly. It is a really raw.
26:38 Chris Ryan? His first few movies are fucking disturbing.
26:40 Bill Simmons? Prisoners and Enemy is not a.
26:43 Sean Fennessey? No, Enemy is amazing, please don't.
26:44 Bill Simmons? Liz loves Jake Gyllenhaal, did you sit through Enemy with her?
26:47 Chris Ryan? No.
26:48 Bill Simmons? Okay.
26:48 Sean Fennessey? Enemy is about.
26:49 Bill Simmons? Jake's really feeling it.
26:50 Sean Fennessey? About the two halves of us.
26:52 Chris Ryan? And a giant tarantula.
26:53 Sean Fennessey? What lives inside of us. Each man have two wolves? Yes.
26:57 Bill Simmons? That was a one timer club for me, I saw that once, not going back.
27:01 Chris Ryan? Okay.
27:02 Sean Fennessey? That was the one.
27:02 Bill Simmons? I do like Prisoners though, and that will be on the rewatch.
27:04 Chris Ryan? I have some bad news for you about CR month, we're ending with that.
27:07 Sean Fennessey? Oh no.
27:09 Bill Simmons? Well, you told me. So then he has Sicario, then he does Arrival, played Runner 2049, two Dune movies. And now he's going to do, what's his next thing?
27:18 Chris Ryan? Bond.
27:18 Bill Simmons? Good one, Bond.
27:20 Chris Ryan? Dune 3 and then Bond.
27:21 Sean Fennessey? I mean, he's on the mountaintop right now, he's in the top five dudes.
27:25 Bill Simmons? I wrote down, style, feel, mood, substance.
27:29 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, pretty much.
27:31 Chris Ryan? Roger Deakins. Worth mentioning.
27:33 Bill Simmons? Big shot Raj.
27:34 Chris Ryan? Which is our, this will be, this one and then next week, we are doing another Roger Deakins movie. He's out of his fucking mind in this movie.
27:41 Sean Fennessey? Amazing.
27:42 Chris Ryan? Some of the best cinematography I've ever seen in my life.
27:44 Bill Simmons? I don't know how he gets the soldiers to disappear like that. It doesn't seem like it's CGI. When they just kind of walk into the darkness together and then they just kind of fade out.
27:52 Chris Ryan? The absolute last second of sunlight.
27:54 Sean Fennessey? It's dusk.
27:55 Chris Ryan? Out in the desert and they were like, let's go. He also just has that sense of composition that if you watch scenes than any other director of photography or any other director for Villeneuve, not, you know, I think they're both equally responsible for the visual look of this film. Like, even if it's just Kate looking at Graver.
28:15 Chris Ryan? Or actually, there's a good example. The scene that I love, which is like when Graver is talking to all the FBI guys about recruiting Kate. They shoot from behind Matt's head and they hold it there the whole time. Where they're like, hey, then this other guy, Daniel Kaluuya character, he went to Maryland and he's a lawyer from UNC. He goes, no lawyers on this train. And they never cut to his face or anything. And the way they shoot it is like, that's the fucking wizard.
28:40 Sean Fennessey? It's like God. Yeah, exactly.
28:42 Chris Ryan? They're like, what is about to happen? You don't want a lawyer to come. Like, that tells you everything about this character and about what's gonna happen. And it's their choice to frame it. And you can see all the guys in the frame and they're all like, oh shit. They're just like, we're about to send this girl to her death, probably.
28:58 Bill Simmons? Do you think Deacon should have done one movie like That's My Boy with Adam Sandler? It's like, just, just like to test himself?
29:05 Sean Fennessey? I mean, this is a running gag on the big picture, but you know, he comes in as a, as a cinematography consultant on animated movies. And so he has worked on my beloved Rango. And he was like, worked as a kind of ad hoc cinematographer on, on movies that have that tone. So he has done that, actually.
29:22 Chris Ryan? There is like, if you go back to like the eighties and early nineties, some of the great cinematographers, because they were just working way more. It'll be like a run of movies where it's like a camera operator on The Exorcist and like this, this and this. And it'll be like sorority boob fever. It's just like, alright, I guess it was time to pay tuition.
29:44 Bill Simmons? Hey, man. Three kids, I gotta be working. The Emily Blunt run was Devil Wears Prada in 06. That puts her on the map. And then she has a bunch of misses and near misses and it's just not really going. But then from 12 to 15, five-year engagement, loop or Edge of Tomorrow on Sicario.
30:03 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
30:03 Bill Simmons? She's kind of submitted. And that was the run.
30:08 Bill Simmons? I have some casting thoughts on her for a later category.
30:11 Sean Fennessey? Okay, okay.
30:12 Bill Simmons? I think I've landed on, I think she was the right person for this. Cause in my head, I think it was more probably Kate Winslet in the early 2000s would have been like the all-timer for me for this. But I think she was good.
30:26 Sean Fennessey? I think she's very credible as an FBI agent and a person who's like, I'm trained to hold a gun. I can go into these spaces. I think there is some flaw in the writing of her morality, especially in the final third of the movie.
30:38 Chris Ryan? I can't wait to talk about that. Okay, save that.
30:41 Bill Simmons? And then our guy Josh Brolin.
30:44 Bill Simmons? Comes on the map nineteen eighty-five Goonies, which had been floated around for the fourth spot in CR month.
30:49 Chris Ryan? I know, I'm, I'm, I'm available.
30:51 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Bounced around for twenty solid years. It's just, his IMDb is all over the place. Never quite made it. He was a kid actor. Two thousand five Into the Blue.
31:02 Chris Ryan? Hmm.
31:02 Bill Simmons? I don't know if you guys know this movie. Paul Walker and Jessica Alba.
31:06 Chris Ryan? Yes.
31:06 Bill Simmons? It's basically a rip off of The Deep.
31:07 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
31:08 Bill Simmons? Brolin's the bad guy and he's fucking great in it. And I actually liked this movie, but Brolin's like great. And it's like all the seeds of the Sicario guy ten years later is in Into the Blue. But then No Country Oh Six, Gangster W, In the Valley of Vila, Milk, all of a sudden he's Josh Brolin.
31:27 Bill Simmons? And I think this is my favorite Brolin.
31:30 Chris Ryan? Graver, Graver might be.
31:31 Bill Simmons? Attitude and just charisma. And you don't know what he's doing. You know he's dangerous. He seems like he's having unusually great time for the circumstances.
31:41 Chris Ryan? Yes.
31:42 Bill Simmons? And I just really enjoy every minute that he's in this.
31:44 Chris Ryan? His character's ability to sleep anywhere is very troubling. And it's, it's very indicative of how comfortable he is with everything that's going on, that he's like always like, I'm just gonna steal fifteen minutes of a nap. And it's a great little tick. A lot of the hand gestures are awesome. The flip flops or the, you know, the crocs that he's basically wearing. But he's still a guy who can just go into the tunnel with the Delta dudes and is, is basically like, fine, fine.
32:11 Bill Simmons? I texted you guys, he's, his demeanor has been my professional goal since two thousand seventeen.
32:16 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
32:17 Bill Simmons? Just wanna be like him at all times.
32:19 Sean Fennessey? It's like I used to be a roughneck. If I have to get it on, I will. But I'm wearing flip flops today.
32:24 Bill Simmons? I almost wore slippers on the Lab Rewatchables, just to, just to lay it down like Josh Brolin does in this movie.
32:30 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, he's an actor who just like always should have been forty, you know, and when he was twenty-five, you're like, now you're like kind of obnoxious a little bit. And he plays that really well in Goonies, you know, where he's like the overcompensating older brother who's like, not, doesn't really get on board with the guys.
32:44 Bill Simmons? Also had a famous dad.
32:45 Sean Fennessey? He did.
32:45 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
32:45 Bill Simmons? And his dad's not famous to the Craig generation, but James Brolin was like a real dude for a long time.
32:50 Sean Fennessey? Big star.
32:51 Bill Simmons? So when his son was coming up, it was like, oh, that's, that was a little nepo, I think, thing that was something against him.
32:55 Chris Ryan? Yeah, and I think that it took him a while, and it took Hollywood a while to realize like how to use him. I mean, like, in some ways, I think No Country will probably be the movie I associate him with the most, but like, this is my favorite performance by him, I think.
33:12 Sean Fennessey? I think also you can't really imagine, Matt Greaver's pretty fucking funny. You know, and he's like, maybe Satan.
33:18 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
33:18 Sean Fennessey? Or at least one of Satan's overlords. But he's so charismatic. And whenever he's talking, you're like, that's the truth. There's something really powerful about that, that they like imbue that character with the idea that like, he's really, he's the only one who really knows how it works.
33:33 Chris Ryan? Yeah, I mean, he's gotta be charming enough to like, entice Kate to join them. But also is the guy who will be like, I'm gonna put your ex-wife's name on the internet to John Bernfall.
33:43 Bill Simmons? I almost did this for hottest take, but it's not quite a hot take. Josh Barlow's second best career of any eighties child actor.
33:52 Sean Fennessey? Beyond, beyond Leo.
33:54 Bill Simmons? Leo's doesn't count because he's really a nineties child actor.
33:57 Sean Fennessey? Okay.
33:58 Bill Simmons? I had runners up.
33:59 Sean Fennessey? Fred Savage?
34:00 Bill Simmons? Kiefer Sutherland, River Phoenix, C. Thomas Howell, Bateman, Jason Patrick, The Corries, Charlie Sheen, Christian Slater. I think the only one that beats him is Christian Bale, who counts.
34:13 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
34:14 Bill Simmons? Cause he starts in eighty seven.
34:15 Chris Ryan? Oh, because of Empire.
34:16 Sean Fennessey? Empire of the Sun, yeah.
34:17 Bill Simmons? The point is, it's very hard to go from.
34:19 Sean Fennessey? River Phoenix would have been there.
34:20 Bill Simmons? I'm a working child actor to, I've avoided all the pitfalls that come with being young and famous.
34:25 Chris Ryan? There's like a fifteen minute, fifteen year wilderness run for him.
34:28 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
34:28 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
34:29 Bill Simmons? And then he landed in the arms of my queen, Diane Lane. Everything was fine.
34:33 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
34:34 Bill Simmons? But yeah, I think Christine, Christian Bale is the only one who's, I think, done better, IMDb standpoint.
34:41 Sean Fennessey? We were just talking about he too the other day, though. It's been a little bit of a rocky road for Bale in the last six, seven years.
34:46 Chris Ryan? He hasn't worked that much recently.
34:47 Bill Simmons? I mean, how much money does he have, though?
34:49 Chris Ryan? I think he likes driving like a Toyota pickup and being chill, you know?
34:52 Sean Fennessey? Bale?
34:53 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
34:53 Sean Fennessey? Just like you. It really is the R month.
34:56 Bill Simmons? So we had a soccer game once in like, fourth grade at Brentwood, and he was on the opposite side and the parents, and we won like, six nothing. I was like, fuck you, Batman. Suck on that, motherfucker.
35:10 Bill Simmons? Oscar nominations.
35:11 Sean Fennessey? You said that to his daughter, you said?
35:12 Bill Simmons? No, I was, yeah, I was telling the whole team. Oscar nominations for cinematography score, sound editing.
35:18 Chris Ryan? How did they not get Del Toro in this?
35:19 Bill Simmons? Well, let's talk about it.
35:21 Sean Fennessey? So goofy.
35:22 Bill Simmons? The Bridge of Spies guys wins. I don't think he's winning if we're doing that.
35:25 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
35:26 Bill Simmons? Bale for Big Short, Hardy for The Revenant, Mark Ruffalo for Spotlight, Sly Stallone for Creed. It was just a really good category. He still should have got nominated. Who are you bumping?
35:35 Sean Fennessey? Well, I have a real hot take about this.
35:38 Bill Simmons? Sly.
35:39 Sean Fennessey? I want Sly out and I want Harrison Ford in for The Force Awakens. And I also want Benicio in and I want Tom Hardy out for The Revenant. Which I think is like such a weird, that's an odd nomination.
35:50 Chris Ryan? I know that this is kind of weird, but I would almost, I'm more of a fan of the Tom Hardy in Fury Road than I am in Revenant.
35:59 Sean Fennessey? I feel like he's partially nominated for Fury Road in that spot.
36:03 Bill Simmons? Do you like Tom Hardy in The Revenant?
36:05 Chris Ryan? Versus Benicio in this?
36:07 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
36:07 Chris Ryan? I'd much rather have Benicio.
36:08 Sean Fennessey? What's your favorite line reading from The Revenant by Tom Hardy?
36:11 Chris Ryan? There's like four lines in The Revenant. I can't think of a single line in the movie, probably, if I had to. It's like, oh, no, a bear.
36:17 Bill Simmons? I've been scouting it for the rewatchables.
36:19 Chris Ryan? Revenant?
36:19 Bill Simmons? It's a rough watch.
36:21 Sean Fennessey? Not a fan.
36:21 Bill Simmons? Long, long stretches of not a lot going on. Wait, I have a couple more things here. Thirty million dollar budget made eighty four point nine million dollars. Spawned a sequel, which we'll talk about. Sadly, no Roger Ebert review because he died two years earlier.
36:38 Chris Ryan? Did you ask AI to recreate it?
36:39 Bill Simmons? I did.
36:40 Chris Ryan? Yeah, god damn it, Bill.
36:44 Bill Simmons? I did, sorry, Sean. I know you hate this. Chat GPT said he would probably have given it three and a half to four stars.
36:53 Chris Ryan? Well, you should start asking Chat GPT, what would Matt Graver do? In like professional management, like Chris's contract is coming up. What would Matt Graver do?
37:04 Bill Simmons? He would take it for a while to Horace.
37:07 Chris Ryan? We could take him to Tijuana.
37:08 Bill Simmons? Chat GPT said.
37:09 Sean Fennessey? Just keep running down that tunnel.
37:10 Bill Simmons? Ebert valued films that wrestled with ethical complexity and he loved intelligent thrillers with political weight.
37:17 Sean Fennessey? He did.
37:19 Bill Simmons? Somebody who is alive right now, Wesley Morris, who you just saw.
37:23 Sean Fennessey? I did.
37:23 Bill Simmons? You just podcasted with him.
37:24 Sean Fennessey? We did. We had a wonderful pod together. He was in my home last night.
37:28 Bill Simmons? He did a kind of a thumbs up, thumbs down.
37:30 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
37:31 Bill Simmons? He called it as much a gym selfie as a movie.
37:36 Sean Fennessey? Wesley is so good. That's very funny.
37:38 Bill Simmons? His style demands that Michael Mans and Catherine Bigelow's of the world take notice, and they should.
37:44 Bill Simmons? And he said, every shootout raid and detonated bomb is a dumbbell thrown to the floor and amped up fatigue.
37:50 Speaker 04 What does that mean a gym selfie? Like a look what I can do?
37:53 Sean Fennessey? The movie is like a real flex.
37:54 Speaker 04 Yeah.
37:54 Chris Ryan? It's very muscular.
37:55 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
37:57 Bill Simmons? Ciara's gone to the gym and watched people lift time to time. He loves it.
38:02 Sean Fennessey? Like as a peeping Tom or?
38:04 Bill Simmons? Yeah. We didn't have to break, right? Can I keep going? Great. We're live on Netflix. Most rewatchable scene.
38:12 Bill Simmons? The opening scene.
38:15 Bill Simmons? Big music, big car crash. We have a near Emily Blunt murder. We have multiple bodies in the wall.
38:22 Chris Ryan? God.
38:23 Bill Simmons? We have people throwing up. And then we have another explosion. We have a crawling guy walking toward two arms.
38:32 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
38:33 Bill Simmons? And then we have her taking the SoCal shower at the end of it, and we're off. The movie has begun.
38:39 Chris Ryan? It's one of my favorite shots in the movie is her getting all the blood out of her hair. I think is the functionality of this scene is just to make it feel like this is a level of depravity and violence that even these FBI agents and cops are not, not versed in. They're just, this is beyond it. And like all the shots of the bodies in that plastic are just supposed to be like, this is, this is a nightmare come to life.
39:01 Sean Fennessey? Yeah. Yeah. It's like you're in The Mummy or something. It's a horror movie. And also that it's a war movie. I think it's really important to frame the movie as a war movie. Like Chris's apocalypse now comparison makes the most sense because it is very much about an enemy that you can't see. And the only way you can go get them is to go where they are, which is a very dangerous place.
39:17 Chris Ryan? And it's, they're, they're already, they're already conducting a war. I mean, like they knocked down that wall. Like they, I remember that sound the first time I saw this movie and like the sound of the truck hitting the wall and that guy's whole living room coming down and just like, whoa, what the fuck is this? Like it's, it is a gym selfie.
39:34 Bill Simmons? It's reminiscent of the heat truck in the beginning of Heat, hitting the, uh, hitting the bank armor thing.
39:43 Bill Simmons? I'll do this now. It's just some questions about the odor of the 42 bodies in the wall and just people hanging out in the house. Probably like 90 degrees in Arizona.
39:51 Sean Fennessey? Mm hmm.
39:53 Bill Simmons? I don't know if there's enough room freshener.
39:56 Chris Ryan? I'm not sure.
39:57 Sean Fennessey? Were they vacuum sealed?
39:59 Chris Ryan? Yeah, like I think.
40:00 Sean Fennessey? What was that? What kind of bag are you talking about?
40:02 Chris Ryan? They're drywalled in. Like, I don't know like what drywall can can prevent scent wise.
40:06 Bill Simmons? You have thoughts on this, Craig?
40:07 Chris Ryan? It's kind of.
40:08 Bill Simmons? I should have you research this.
40:09 Speaker 04 Yeah, I think that they're bagged pretty tightly. And so I have to imagine that that was a part of their calculus when they when they were thinking of where to stuff these bodies.
40:17 Bill Simmons? I don't know. Ben left some chicken in the fridge last week in a Ziploc bag and it still smelled after like eight days. These are 170 pound bodies behind a wall. Just, I don't know. I think it would have smelled.
40:30 Chris Ryan? We have these conversations all the time, like with the guys, like the different people in Seven. It's like, how are we not calling?
40:37 Bill Simmons? Getting used to the odor. Maybe your nasal.
40:39 Sean Fennessey? Do you think we should end the episode right now? It's such a flaw that maybe you just throw the baby with the bathwater?
40:45 Bill Simmons? Next scene I have is the ride through Juarez, which includes um
40:51 Bill Simmons? Del Toro saying, "Welcome to Juarez." It's like, thank you. I think Sheridan's borrowed from that in other places.
40:57 Sean Fennessey? So you would not have the meeting Graver scene?
41:01 Chris Ryan? Matt recruiting her.
41:02 Bill Simmons? So I had that on what stage the best, but I'm happy to have it here too.
41:05 Chris Ryan? It's among, it is not the best, it is not the most rewatchable scene, but it is up there for me.
41:10 Sean Fennessey? I love that scene.
41:10 Bill Simmons? There's so much information. Fine, put it in.
41:13 Chris Ryan? Okay.
41:15 Speaker 04 You got your way.
41:17 Bill Simmons? Our guy Jeffrey Donovan preparing for his shot caller role two years later.
41:21 Chris Ryan? Bottles.
41:22 Bill Simmons? It's brilliant what they do.
41:25 Sean Fennessey? Yellow with red dots?
41:27 Bill Simmons? Next scene is when they're in traffic. Red and Paula, two lanes over. Donovan said, I'm getting a boner.
41:37 Bill Simmons? We have two foursome car shootings plus the ninth guy.
41:40 Chris Ryan? That's right.
41:41 Bill Simmons? Tries to kill Kate.
41:42 Chris Ryan? The federal police.
41:42 Bill Simmons? This scene's awesome. Del Toro, the way he snaps into action. Also, just get your guns out. And then he's just like, this is great stuff.
41:51 Chris Ryan? Let's talk about it, man. I mean, the thing about this scene. I don't even know if I really realized this until I was watching it for this pod is how you know exactly where they are in relation to where the toll is. Where the other two cars are, they're really clear about it, but also like, there's just very few directors who put you in a space and you are feeling the tension because you're like, I can see how slowly the traffic is moving. The dog is barking. It's hot. People are staring out their car windows and now these guys are over here and this guy's got a full face tattoo and is like looking itchy. And all these guys are like, what's the rules of engagement? Like, what's the,
42:33 Chris Ryan? am I allowed to get out inside a perimeter? You can feel every single part of the elements of that scene. It's remarkable.
42:41 Sean Fennessey? It's really, really well edited. I don't remember. I can't remember a single time when I felt more tense in a movie theater. It's kind of on par with watching Jaws in my house.
42:51 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
42:51 Sean Fennessey? Where you're like, what the hell is going to happen here? Even though you kind of know what's going to happen, like there's, there's going to be a shootout.
42:58 Chris Ryan? I think it's because Kate doesn't know. I think it's Kate's like, I, we're not supposed to be in Juarez, we're supposed to be in El Paso. Like, I don't really know what I'm doing here. And then this guy's telling me to take my gun out. And it's like she says at the end where she's just like, I'm not authorized to follow. Like, he's a spook, you're a spook. I'm like, I'm not a soldier.
43:18 Sean Fennessey? Yep.
43:19 Chris Ryan? And they're asking her to participate and then she's complicit. Like, she does something in that shootout that essentially seals her fate with these guys for most of the movie. And it's just, I think because she doesn't know what's going to happen, we don't know what's going to happen.
43:32 Bill Simmons? I almost feel like this could be a new rewatchables category, but the guy you mentioned, face tattoo guy.
43:37 Chris Ryan? Mm-hmm.
43:38 Bill Simmons? I mean, a profile, but I don't know if you could put a scarier guy in the passenger seat. He's just covered, shaved head, itchy, as you said, and he's also holding a gun. It's like, I'm positive this guy's up to no good. This guy's like not headed to a soccer game.
43:53 Chris Ryan? Yeah, I think if you were gonna pick a nit, the cartel could have sent a guy like named Neil, who was like working for a sales.
43:58 Bill Simmons? Told him to wear a hat.
44:00 Sean Fennessey? So in that sequence specifically, that those guys are attempting to just get Guillermo back. That they're like, we know that you've taken Guillermo and we have arrived at this place at the same time.
44:10 Bill Simmons? But this is the whole point of why they took Guillermo, because they're trying to lure these guys to cause the ruckus.
44:16 Chris Ryan? I think that they are also, I wonder whether or not it's in play where it's like if Guillermo doesn't make it back alive, better that than he goes to.
44:23 Sean Fennessey? Right, provides information.
44:25 Chris Ryan? And provides information, yeah.
44:27 Bill Simmons? I'm always rooting for Guillermo's because that was my name in Spanish class.
44:31 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
44:31 Bill Simmons? That was Guillermo, eighth grade, ninth grade.
44:33 Sean Fennessey? How come you didn't stick with it?
44:35 Bill Simmons? ¿Cómo se llama Guillermo? I didn't stick with it. I did seven years of Spanish, never took.
44:39 Sean Fennessey? It's not too late to change it.
44:40 Bill Simmons? Couldn't, just couldn't get over the hump. They always said you had to go abroad and speak it for like two months. And I was just like, I'm, well, I'm gonna miss sports for two months, so.
44:48 Chris Ryan? You're still like that.
44:50 Bill Simmons? Speak?
44:50 Sean Fennessey? You could say at the top of every episode, bienvenidos Guillermo Simmons Podcast.
44:56 Bill Simmons? Guillermo.
44:58 Bill Simmons? A couple of my college roommates still call me Guillermo, actually. Yeah, there you go.
45:02 Sean Fennessey? That's great.
45:03 Bill Simmons? Inside info for you.
45:03 Sean Fennessey? Incredible Juarez cred.
45:05 Bill Simmons? Next rewatchable scene.
45:06 Chris Ryan? You would do great there.
45:08 Bill Simmons? That's it, that's all I got. I'd be very comfortable. Kate and Reggie at the bar into the fight scene. It's hard not to think about CR when you see big bars like this.
45:19 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
45:20 Bill Simmons? People drinking bottles and smoking and playing pool.
45:22 Sean Fennessey? And dancing to country music. That's what I think of when I think of CR.
45:25 Bill Simmons? Kind of wish CR was in the background.
45:27 Chris Ryan? It's a great bar.
45:29 Chris Ryan? It's a great bar, I would tell you.
45:31 Bill Simmons? Reggie busting on Kate.
45:33 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
45:33 Bill Simmons? Bet how she's letting herself go is just really good, really good scene.
45:37 Sean Fennessey? Their chemistry is really good.
45:38 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
45:39 Chris Ryan? Two Brits.
45:40 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
45:40 Sean Fennessey? It's true.
45:40 Bill Simmons? He's not Get Out guy yet. We don't really have a history with him.
45:43 Sean Fennessey? No. You can see though in the movie now, when you watch, you're like, oh yeah, he's fucking cool. He's charismatic.
45:48 Chris Ryan? Yeah, he's got a lot to him. Yeah, it's a nothing part and he's got a lot to him.
45:51 Bill Simmons? Then Berthold comes in.
45:53 Chris Ryan? Goddamn Reggie! Berthold puts a lot of Texas barbecue on that accent, considering it's taking place in Arizona. He's like, goddamn, you saw me at the softball game?
46:08 Bill Simmons? His chest out, he's peacocking big time.
46:11 Chris Ryan? Yeah, yeah.
46:12 Bill Simmons? Yeah, we get pool and country music, we get dancing, and then we get a pretty, pretty heated hook up scene.
46:19 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
46:20 Bill Simmons? Followed by her noticing that, wait, this guy has the money clip in his pants, that's probably not a good sign.
46:26 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, rubber bands.
46:27 Bill Simmons? And then she almost gets strangled to death, and it turns out that, uh, Del Toro's been peeping, he's been doing the, how's the peeping, Tom?
46:34 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
46:35 Bill Simmons? Tommy, Alejandro, how's the peeping?
46:40 Chris Ryan? He, uh...
46:40 Sean Fennessey? You think this was like a binocular situation, or was he just right outside the door?
46:44 Chris Ryan? I think he's been following her.
46:46 Bill Simmons? Did they also hope this was gonna happen?
46:49 Chris Ryan? I think once she goes in the bank, like Graver says, like, she's like, you used me as bait, and Graver's like, you, you made yourself bait. You went, I told you not to go in the bank, they're gonna be watching you.
46:59 Bill Simmons? I put torturing Berthold in the car, just because I could have watched it for 20 more minutes. At one point, Del Toro just sticks his entire finger in Berthold's ear, I don't know how they did it.
47:08 Chris Ryan? I have Apex Mountain for wet willies, I don't know that it's ever been more powerful.
47:12 Bill Simmons? He's like, ah, goddamn!
47:14 Sean Fennessey? I think Berthold sells it very well, like, he's really working hard.
47:18 Bill Simmons? Do you think he did like, he bent the finger this way, so when he put it in, it seemed, really seemed like it was in there?
47:24 Chris Ryan? Also, Graver's lying about like, I get to decide whether you go to a work camp in Missouri or a kill house like Corcoran, I was like, holy shit!
47:33 Bill Simmons? It's great, I can watch that for five more minutes.
47:35 Sean Fennessey? This movie has a very soft tinge of evil, like, every 20 minutes, it's like, here's a fucked up thing.
47:41 Bill Simmons? Uh, the infrared tunnel sneak attack, we talked about it.
47:45 Bill Simmons? Alejandro goes rogue, grabs a guy, shoots our, shoots our girl Kate twice.
47:50 Chris Ryan? My god, dude.
47:51 Bill Simmons? One of the great, he shot her, but I forgot you're wearing a bulletproof vest and you're not dead, but whatever.
47:59 Bill Simmons? Brolin telling Kate who Alejandro is.
48:04 Bill Simmons? Really good, and then she's like, I'm just gonna go, and he's like, that would be a major mistake. And then I got the dinner scene.
48:12 Chris Ryan? It's the dinner scene, is that what you're calling it?
48:14 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
48:17 Sean Fennessey? They're just swung by Houston's.
48:19 Bill Simmons? I'm awarding this the big Kahuna burger award.
48:21 Chris Ryan? That's like calling Mo Green's death like the massage scene.
48:24 Bill Simmons? The big Kahuna burger award for best use of food and drink. Keep eating.
48:29 Bill Simmons? Go ahead and finish your meal.
48:30 Sean Fennessey? What were they eating like lamb shank or something on the meal?
48:32 Chris Ryan? It looked like it was a pork roast or something.
48:34 Sean Fennessey? Pork roast, yeah.
48:35 Bill Simmons? Yeah, it looked like the chef had really put some time in.
48:37 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, I agree.
48:38 Bill Simmons? Worst dinner guest of all time, CR?
48:40 Chris Ryan? Well. Uh. You know, they're not gonna live to give him a yelp for it, so I don't know what to say.
48:47 Sean Fennessey? Good conversationalist, you know?
48:49 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
48:49 Sean Fennessey? Had a lot of questions.
48:50 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
48:50 Bill Simmons? Just, they're just hanging out, talking about the Mexico national team.
48:55 Chris Ryan? vengeful avenging angels, you know?
48:56 Sean Fennessey? In any other movie, this is the best scene in the movie. And this is somehow the second best scene, maybe the third best scene in the movie.
49:01 Chris Ryan? Yes.
49:02 Sean Fennessey? That's kind of amazing.
49:03 Bill Simmons? The boom, boom, boom, shooting. I don't know how you do that.
49:07 Sean Fennessey? They're like, we're killing the kid. We're killing both kids. That's also something that 99% of movies just do not do.
49:14 Chris Ryan? And this is the biggest difference between the movie and the script. Script is pretty wonky. He's like, tells the wife to take the kids and like, hope that they become doctors. And like, they, they go run off and then he kills Fausto. And it's like, you have to, you have to have Alejandro completely lose himself in that scene to become like what it is that he's avenging. You know, he has to take from this guy what he took from him.
49:42 Speaker 04 Do you think he could have gone a little harder?
49:44 Chris Ryan? How so?
49:45 Speaker 04 On Fausto? So Fausto dumped Alejandro's daughter in a vat of acid, correct?
49:50 Bill Simmons? And beheaded his wife.
49:51 Speaker 04 And beheaded his wife and he just gets a bullet to the head.
49:53 Chris Ryan? I think that for Alejandro, he's like, you watching your family die is the punishment.
49:57 Speaker 04 But even then, he gave him like five seconds to grapple with that. Maybe let it sit for a minute.
50:02 Chris Ryan? Fausto also not, doesn't really make a compelling argument. You know what I mean? He's just sort of like, wow.
50:07 Sean Fennessey? I think he knows what's coming, so he's just trying to get a shot up right before the end there. It's just one last shot on, on the Sicario's life. I think it's just because.
50:15 Speaker 04 He's in a hurry.
50:16 Sean Fennessey? Alejandro's worried that somebody's gonna come, so he's gotta make quick work.
50:19 Speaker 04 Could have been a little bit more sadistic.
50:20 Chris Ryan? The shot, the cut to the wife. When Alejandro's like, don't forget about my daughter. And it cuts the wife and she's like, you fucking killed his daughter. I can't believe this, like, you're gonna get me killed here.
50:31 Bill Simmons? I thought Craig didn't think it was sadistic enough.
50:35 Bill Simmons? Two kids and a wife.
50:37 Sean Fennessey? I brought a vat of acid with me. Can you guys step in here?
50:41 Bill Simmons? Last one is Alejandro comes to get Kate's confession. You were not a wolf. And this is the land of wolves now.
50:48 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
50:49 Bill Simmons? Great stare down. So what do you have for most of our watchable?
50:52 Chris Ryan? I have the 21, 22 minute sequence of the border crossing.
50:58 Sean Fennessey? Same. The war is and especially the, on the way back.
51:01 Bill Simmons? Me as well.
51:02 Chris Ryan? Yeah, okay.
51:04 Sean Fennessey? It's, it is one of the great movie scenes of this century. It is, it is so captivating.
51:08 Chris Ryan? It's my hardest take.
51:10 Bill Simmons? That's it? We just did your hardest take?
51:12 Chris Ryan? No, my hardest take is that this is as good of an action set piece as the bank robbery from Heat. With maybe the, the truck chase from Dark Knight of the last, of pretty much my lifetime, but like the last 30, 40 years.
51:25 Bill Simmons? Not gonna fight it.
51:26 Sean Fennessey? Did we see, we didn't see this together, did we?
51:29 Chris Ryan? It would've been in LA. I don't know.
51:31 Sean Fennessey? It was Grantland times.
51:32 Bill Simmons? We saw The Revenant together.
51:33 Sean Fennessey? We did see The Revenant together.
51:34 Chris Ryan? We saw a lot of movies together.
51:35 Bill Simmons? That was your last month at Grantland, though.
51:37 Chris Ryan? Yeah, that's right.
51:39 Sean Fennessey? But did we see Sicario together? I can't even remember.
51:41 Bill Simmons? I didn't see Scar in the theater.
51:43 Sean Fennessey? Oh, interesting.
51:44 Bill Simmons? Oh, we had fucking All Hell Was Breaking Loose.
51:47 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, yeah, that was a crazy time.
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53:53 Bill Simmons? What's the most 2015 thing about this movie? It's a tough one.
53:57 Chris Ryan? It's funny to think about all hell breaking loose in comparison to the action of Sakkara. You're like calling Graver like, "Yeah, man, I've had a pretty crazy month. I have a new media company."
54:07 Chris Ryan? It's like, "Wor- I started a war."
54:10 Bill Simmons? Trying to figure out health insurance.
54:13 Chris Ryan? You go, "No, you go, "Signa, it's really hard."
54:17 Sean Fennessey? You think you and Graver would get along?
54:18 Chris Ryan? Oh, yeah.
54:19 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I would hire him.
54:22 Chris Ryan? Did you what?
54:23 Bill Simmons? I don't know. Just get shit done.
54:24 Chris Ryan? Be the third chair on Game Over?
54:26 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
54:31 Bill Simmons? I have younger Burnthall is the most 2015 thing about this movie.
54:34 Sean Fennessey? That's a good one.
54:34 Chris Ryan? I got pre-
54:35 Bill Simmons? It's a specific Walking Dead-era Burnthall.
54:37 Chris Ryan? Pre Yellowstone Sheridan.
54:39 Sean Fennessey? Hmm.
54:40 Chris Ryan? Where the screenplays are tighter.
54:44 Bill Simmons? What do you have, Sean?
54:44 Sean Fennessey? I have rooting for border-crossing, non-jurisdictional pirate soldier squads attempting to end narco-terrorism with excessive force.
54:51 Bill Simmons? Very 2015.
54:52 Sean Fennessey? Doesn't really feel like something I would root for this year.
54:54 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
54:54 Chris Ryan? I also, I mean, of 2015, I had the capacity to be scandalized by the behavior of shadowy elements of the United States government.
55:03 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
55:03 Chris Ryan? Oh, God, knowing that from Craig.
55:05 Speaker 04 Pretty much.
55:06 Sean Fennessey? This.
55:06 Speaker 04 Even like being surprised that the CIA is involved.
55:09 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, right. Yeah. This movie is almost as close to nine eleven as we are to the release of this movie. Isn't that crazy?
55:15 Chris Ryan? Really?
55:16 Sean Fennessey? Like that, like it's, it's fourteen years and eleven years. Like, it's really close now.
55:20 Chris Ryan? God. What stage is the best? I have a couple. What do you have? Uh, movie starts in brilliant sunlight with the bombing at the drug house. Moves to unrelenting darkness throughout the tunnel, culminating with the tunnel. And then that last shot is just, or the last scene with Kayden. Alejandro is all gray. She's wearing gray. The wall is gray. What's happening is gray. It's, it's just a great arc of like cinematography matching story. Um, I think the character introductions in this movie are amazing. Kate in the truck following orders and being a soldier, even though she claims she's not one. Matt kind of directing everything intellectually.
56:02 Chris Ryan? And then Alejandro, I think we see him first as she's pulling up in the Jeep. And he's like, that's my bird dog Alejandro. And he's like, kind of standing behind the plane a little bit obscured. Just awesome. I, I love a great character introduction.
56:15 Sean Fennessey? Hmm.
56:16 Chris Ryan? What do you have?
56:17 Sean Fennessey? I mean, drug cartels running entire countries and subverting power structures has aged well. Um, it's still obviously something that is happening right now.
56:26 Chris Ryan? Mister Happy.
56:26 Sean Fennessey? You know?
56:27 Chris Ryan? I know.
56:28 Sean Fennessey? The movie is weirdly way out of fashion, but also very accurate, like very accurate at the present times. There's certain things about it. We can talk about what, in what, in what stage the worst that don't make, don't work as well. But then there are a lot of things that are, I think Sheridan's a really interesting cat. Cause he is very, very smart about the way that things are. But he often tries to explain why they are the way that things are in a way that I find a little bit frustrating. But he's really good at being like, nobody else is talking to you about this right now. And I think it's important that we do talk about it.
56:58 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
56:59 Sean Fennessey? So, you know, it's like, it's in Landman, it's in Lioness, it's in Yellowstone, it's in this, it's in Wind River, it's in, um, Hell or High Water, like especially in his movies, though, he's really good at being like, there's a problem in the country. Whether it be on a Native American reservation, or in the way that banks take advantage of small town people, or the way that the drug war has kind of like subsumed the American military, they're really, really incisive, and he's really, really smart about that stuff. Sometimes he like gilds the lily like five times, but all those movies hold up really well because whatever he was after at the time is on point.
57:35 Chris Ryan? I think that the easy thing to think is that Taylor Sheridan thinks what these guys are doing is cool. And I think that part of that is because of the, like, the weird, ugly beauty that Villeneuve and Deacon's ascribe to the characters. I mean, like, it, it definitely romanticizes to some extent, but like, guys wearing bulletproof vests, and these dudes who know everything and take private jets, you know? But I don't think it's that simple. And I think that this was definitely a time period where he was a little bit more in tune with what was really happening in the world. And maybe like now it's kind of drifted a little bit more to where he's like, yeah, it's like pronouns and oil rigs, that's what's really important. But it's like, this was a little bit more like he had his finger on something.
58:20 Sean Fennessey? I agree.
58:21 Bill Simmons? Yeah. And then he just wrote scripts for nine years in a row without leaving an office.
58:26 Chris Ryan? That's right.
58:26 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
58:27 Bill Simmons? I have the title for Age the Best. Sicario is a great title.
58:31 Sean Fennessey? Yeah. And he like put it in the lexicon now, right?
58:34 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Combined with that, movies that begin with info cards, you're usually in good hands. In Mexico, sicario means hitman. But if the multiple cards, you always know you're in good shape. If I ever make an action movie, I'm gonna have info cards. They called him CR. We talked about the little touches in this movie, like Brolin wearing sandals, the crooked cop when he pours the liquor in his morning coffee.
58:59 Sean Fennessey? He gets caught by his wife.
59:00 Bill Simmons? Yeah, a lot of stuff like that.
59:02 Chris Ryan? There's a moment where, when they're driving into Juarez, she's looking at Alejandro's hands and notices he has a wedding band on. And like, it doesn't get remarked upon, but she's, she just has this great little look at him, like, I wonder who this guy is.
59:17 Bill Simmons? The long payoff with the Mexican cop, I like.
59:20 Chris Ryan? Yes.
59:21 Bill Simmons? My wife picked that up yesterday. I've been, never seen the movie.
59:23 Chris Ryan? Kind of the, uh, the Haysbert.
59:26 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
59:26 Chris Ryan? Heat character.
59:27 Bill Simmons? Yes.
59:27 Chris Ryan? Why, why are we here? What are we doing with this guy? And then it hits at the end.
59:31 Sean Fennessey? Yes.
59:31 Bill Simmons? And then Berthold, it's just in general, he's done this in multiple movies. Where he's a good guy and a bad guy in the same movie and he can swing. And he also did it in Walking Dead. He's kind of like, this is his move.
59:44 Chris Ryan? Sure.
59:45 Bill Simmons? It's like, I like this guy. Oh no, I don't like this guy.
59:47 Chris Ryan? Exactly who he is in Wind River, right?
59:48 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
59:48 Chris Ryan? Where you're like, oh, he's gonna be the, the, the bad guy, right?
59:51 Sean Fennessey? He's like it in a lot of things. I think it's because he has like a very like good old boy. Hey, man, I'm here with my buddy kind of energy, but he, there's something very malevolent about him. That like, it pops out really fast.
1:00:02 Chris Ryan? The way that fight plays out is really good because. It's unclear whether he's supposed to, you know, like Alejandro does not think that that, that Ted is an assassin. He thinks he's just there to like, kind of see what Kate knows and see if he can get anything out of her. But it's definitely in play that he's gonna kill her. And when he's choking her out, he seems to be like, I didn't want this to happen. You know, I wanted just to like, find out what you were working on. And now we've gotten to this. It feels like a character out of control. It's just a great performance.
1:00:33 Bill Simmons? I had this later for picking nits with that, uh, strangle scene. What's, what's the move after, all right, I had to kill her. Like, how's he getting out of that one?
1:00:44 Chris Ryan? He's Phoenix PD. I mean, presumably he can figure some stuff out.
1:00:47 Bill Simmons? She's an FBI agent, though.
1:00:49 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:00:49 Sean Fennessey? I think part of the reason why he was a flawed hire on the cartel's part is that he's not really in control.
1:00:55 Bill Simmons? I was, this leads to my larger point.
1:00:57 Chris Ryan? Cartel HR.
1:00:59 Bill Simmons? Horrible judgment.
1:01:00 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:01:00 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:01:01 Bill Simmons? Cause that's the other picking net of this is why are you fucking walking around with the cartel? Money band as your, as like your wallet. Maybe like get another wallet.
1:01:10 Chris Ryan? Ted.
1:01:10 Bill Simmons? Come on, Ted.
1:01:11 Chris Ryan? Striking out at slow pitch softball, maybe not like a brain genius.
1:01:14 Sean Fennessey? Good sign. Yeah.
1:01:14 Bill Simmons? Jesus, Ted.
1:01:15 Chris Ryan? Maybe not Brad Stevens.
1:01:17 Sean Fennessey? Great.
1:01:19 Bill Simmons? Why'd you trade Jared McCain, Ted? You just got a non-modern pick? What are you doing? Great shot order award, most cinematic shot, we covered it.
1:01:28 Chris Ryan? I got a couple here. It's soldiers disappearing into the setting sun.
1:01:31 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:01:31 Chris Ryan? Or Kate walking across the rooftop to see the fireworks.
1:01:34 Bill Simmons? I like that one, too. Yeah, that's good. Chess Rock World Broccoli Landers Award for best character name, Fausto Alarcorn. No, no. Alarcorn?
1:01:42 Chris Ryan? Uh, Alarcon.
1:01:43 Bill Simmons? Alarcon?
1:01:44 Chris Ryan? I gotta say, though.
1:01:45 Bill Simmons? Did I call him corn?
1:01:46 Chris Ryan? You did.
1:01:47 Bill Simmons? Fausto Alarcorn. I think I ordered that last night. Fausto corn corn.
1:01:51 Chris Ryan? I would say that if your nickname is Medine, you win the Chess Rock World Award.
1:01:56 Bill Simmons? True. Yeah. Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happiness Award for best needle drop. So every time the evil Jaws score kicks in, which we didn't talk about, but but our guy Denny was basically like, hey, can you make a really scary score like in Jaws? And the guy who did the score is like, I'll try. And then it's just fucking awesome. It fills them.
1:02:23 Bill Simmons? It's your guy.
1:02:23 Chris Ryan? Yeah. I mean, this is an amazing piece of music just because you cannot imagine this movie without this.
1:02:29 Bill Simmons? No, it almost wins the movie.
1:02:31 Chris Ryan? Like if they're listening to Slow Ride, you're just like, well, this isn't working. You know, like there's no pop music really in this, except for diegetic stuff. It's great.
1:02:39 Bill Simmons? Well, this is a big moment because we have a new rewatchables category that I didn't even clear with you guys.
1:02:43 Chris Ryan? Oh, okay.
1:02:45 Bill Simmons? And I think it's a keeper. It comes from a listener named Abby Soul, who writes, sometimes movies we love carry subtle details or moments that speak to the individual viewer especially. My category idea allows for the rewatchables creator to share one moment or aspect of a movie that speaks to them more than 99% of the viewers. For example, Bill loves Sonny Corleone biting his knuckle when he's mad. C R can't get enough of the Eric Stoltz drug dealer lifestyle in Pulp.
1:03:12 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:03:12 Bill Simmons? So here's my succession, uh, suggestion. The Floyd Gondoli butter in my ass and lollipops in my mouth award for something I just enjoy. Wow.
1:03:23 Bill Simmons? What a great award. How did we not have this?
1:03:25 Chris Ryan? From this film?
1:03:27 Bill Simmons? So for this, my answer for this, for the Floyd Gondoli award is Gondoli?
1:03:33 Sean Fennessey? Gondoli.
1:03:34 Bill Simmons? Gondoli. Anytime a movie with drug stuff and somebody says in the movie, there's rumors of a tunnel, I'm in.
1:03:43 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:03:44 Bill Simmons? I just fucking love knowing that there might be a tunnel because that means we might be going in the tunnel. And that's my Floyd Gondoli.
1:03:54 Chris Ryan? Do you have one, Sean?
1:03:55 Bill Simmons? You don't need to have one. I didn't prep you for this.
1:03:58 Sean Fennessey? Is this all one game that you've been?
1:04:00 Chris Ryan? Is there really an Abby?
1:04:04 Bill Simmons? I think you guys would like the Floyd Gondoli.
1:04:06 Sean Fennessey? I do. I'm trying to think of a really good answer to this.
1:04:08 Bill Simmons? Well, no, for the next one, when we do the next movie we do.
1:04:10 Chris Ryan? So it's just something you like, you really personally liked from the movie?
1:04:13 Bill Simmons? It just resonates with you only.
1:04:15 Chris Ryan? I honestly, a dude wearing a bulletproof vest who has big horn rimmed glasses.
1:04:19 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, I kind of did mine. I said a movie with a debrief. When there's a debrief in a movie and it's like, all these important people are in a room and they're like, this is how it is and this is how we're gonna get the guy.
1:04:29 Chris Ryan? But when you see a geek and he's got like an AR-15 and a bulletproof vest on and he's like, I'm, I'm just hanging out at this air force base. That's like, we're about to get in some shit.
1:04:38 Sean Fennessey? I love, maybe you have this in half ass internet research, but who the Jeffrey Donovan character is like based on visually?
1:04:44 Chris Ryan? Oh, yeah.
1:04:44 Sean Fennessey? Is a former Ranger who is in Norman Schwarzkopf's security detail, who is like a bespectacled dude, who is like yoked and very scary, but also a big dork. And that, that fusing those two ideas together to make a character is really interesting.
1:04:59 Bill Simmons? You're up with the Sean Fantasy Award for stealth homage that gives every movie nerd a criteria orgasm.
1:05:04 Sean Fennessey? Okay, I don't want to overdo it, but there's three. There's one that's very obvious, which is, um, Del Toro says, keep an eye out for the state police. They are not always the good guys. Of course, Del Toro was state police in Traffic, for which he won his Academy Award. In Thief, there is a moment where, um,
1:05:23 Sean Fennessey? Uh, well, in the movie, Alejandro ignores the maid as he continues clearing the house, which is an homage to the thief, which is something that Frank does in that movie. But the one that I like the most, and I think this is on purpose and I don't know, is the scene that you just talked about with the Mexican cop pouring booze into his coffee in the morning, and his son has his face down on the table, and the father winks at him, and then the kid winks back, which I think is a direct match to Jaws, where Shider's at the table with his son, you know? And they have that moment where they're connecting, he says, "Give us a kiss." And I feel like that's a nod to that.
1:05:58 Chris Ryan? I have one more, which is just when Blunt and Coolia show up at the motel before the tunnel raid. Roland says, "Can I interest you in this tasty beverage?"
1:06:07 Sean Fennessey? Oh.
1:06:08 Chris Ryan? And I was like, "Here we go." Oh. Yeah. You have a flex category, Sierra. Okay. I have a special okay, motherfucker for the exact moment this movie jumps up a level, and it's seven levels of okay, motherfucker around. We're plus seven? Around the Juarez border crossing. Level one is when Alejandro tells Kate he goes where he's sent, and she says, "Where were you sent from?" And he said, "Cartagena." Like, okay. What, okay, motherfucker. Level two is Alejandro neatly folding his linen jacket before the op. Okay, motherfucker. Are you folding your jacket? Okay.
1:06:49 Chris Ryan? Level three, the federal, the Mexican federal police pickup trucks going over speed bumps, and we're in the pickup truck? Yeah. Okay, motherfucker, we're doing this. Yeah. Level four, Steve saying, "Spotter vehicle left lane, I'm getting a boner." Yeah. Okay, motherfucker. Level five, take your service weapon out. Okay, motherfucker. Level six, Steve going, "Gun, gun." And level seven is just the shootout after Alejandro goes, "Do you want to die?" And they do.
1:07:26 Sean Fennessey? You didn't hit us with the loudest.
1:07:28 Chris Ryan? Okay, motherfucker.
1:07:32 Bill Simmons? That was great.
1:07:34 Bill Simmons? Now, we're up to the Butch's Girlfriend Award for Week Link of the Film. This is a pretty strong film.
1:07:41 Sean Fennessey? It is a strong film.
1:07:41 Bill Simmons? I would volunteer this. I think you really need to understand the CIA, FBI mechanics of what's really going on here to fully understand this movie. And I'm not possible, sitting in the theater in September 19th, 2015, for the first time watching this. You can comprehend everything that's happening.
1:08:02 Sean Fennessey? Mm-hmm.
1:08:02 Bill Simmons? I do think it's a multiple watch before you really get it movie.
1:08:07 Sean Fennessey? They do give you the one scene where Victor Garber explains what is going on, which is very helpful.
1:08:14 Chris Ryan? It's like, I can't, I didn't dream this up.
1:08:16 Sean Fennessey? Yes.
1:08:17 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:08:17 Sean Fennessey? They're like, this is above my pay grade aspect of that speech where-
1:08:21 Chris Ryan? People who are elected, not appointed.
1:08:23 Sean Fennessey? Yes. I think is very well written. I think Victor Garber is the perfect actor for it.
1:08:28 Bill Simmons? So goodness.
1:08:29 Sean Fennessey? I, I do think that it's like, it comes a little late in the movie and maybe that's on purpose.
1:08:34 Chris Ryan? Yes.
1:08:34 Sean Fennessey? But it takes a long time for us to kind of figure out those relationships.
1:08:37 Bill Simmons? So basically CIA can't do assassinations.
1:08:41 Chris Ryan? They can't operate within the domestic United States.
1:08:43 Bill Simmons? FBI gives Brolin's team cover, because now it's a cross department.
1:08:49 Chris Ryan? It's a task-
1:08:49 Bill Simmons? Semi-legal task force. And everything went great until Kate went the wrong way in the tunnel.
1:08:55 Chris Ryan? I wouldn't say it went great, but yeah.
1:08:57 Bill Simmons? Well, but you know what I mean? Like, they were about to pull off what they wanted to without Kate being like, wait, what's happening?
1:09:02 Chris Ryan? She goes into the tunnel that she has been used, because in the motel-
1:09:06 Bill Simmons? But if she takes a left, we're probably, she's not as distraught-
1:09:11 Chris Ryan? She'd just be like, where's Alejandro?
1:09:12 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Like, oh, yeah, he had to run. He had a fantasy draft.
1:09:15 Chris Ryan? Before they go-
1:09:18 Bill Simmons? Premiere link starts Thursday.
1:09:20 Chris Ryan? Is it Drake May or what? In that first, that motel scene, she's like- He's like, we're going on this op, you guys stay behind. And she's like, yeah, well, we can't fucking go because we didn't bring our stuff because you didn't tell us that this is what was happening. So, but all he basically needs is her sign off. And that's when he reveals that the CIA can't operate domestically without FBI attached.
1:09:41 Bill Simmons? But I think that would be the weak link, just that this is a pretty dense movie that of with a lot of themes that are hard to just embrace the way you would embrace some other. When you're watching Heat, you know what's happening in Heat the first time you watch it, heat right there.
1:09:56 Sean Fennessey? I think to me, the weak link of the movie is always, and I think this is a five star movie, so it's kind of not a big deal, but her still being insistent on doing things the right way, even after she's been in the tunnel. And she's like, I'm gonna tell on you.
1:10:10 Bill Simmons? I had that in my biggest nitpick.
1:10:11 Sean Fennessey? I'm a little like, okay.
1:10:13 Chris Ryan? He just doesn't let her go, like walk away from that. You know what I mean? Like it's, it's, it is, it is a nitpick of mine as well.
1:10:21 Bill Simmons? What's age the worst? I'll do one quick. And it's weird because she smokes in real life. I didn't like Kate smoking in this movie.
1:10:30 Chris Ryan? I thought she was pretty good, but maybe British.
1:10:32 Bill Simmons? I put a Tom Cruise, which end do I light award for terrible on screen smoking. I just didn't think.
1:10:39 Chris Ryan? Have you ever smoked an Indian Creek?
1:10:41 Bill Simmons? No, what are those?
1:10:42 Chris Ryan? I think they're bigger in the southwest. I'm not, I haven't.
1:10:45 Bill Simmons? Are they longer, fatter, shorter?
1:10:47 Chris Ryan? No, they're just, they're just like a gas station cigarette. You know, it's like, go get them.
1:10:51 Sean Fennessey? What's your policy on smoking mid pod?
1:10:55 Chris Ryan? Well, they can't fucking stop us. We're live, brother.
1:10:57 Bill Simmons? That's what I'm saying.
1:10:58 Sean Fennessey? Like if I just pulled out some Indian Creeks?
1:11:00 Bill Simmons? I don't know. There's just something, but it's weird because I researched it and she does smoke in real life, but I didn't like three puffs. I didn't like the way she threw it. Probably not still. She's got kids now, but I think back in the day, plus she's English. All.
1:11:12 Chris Ryan? I think she, the only time I'm ever like reminded that Emily Blunt is probably much more delicate than Kate is when she lights a cigarette for some reason.
1:11:22 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:11:23 Chris Ryan? It's like a very cool like way of lighting a cigarette.
1:11:26 Bill Simmons? I had the handball game that they show as they're driving in.
1:11:30 Sean Fennessey? That aged the worst.
1:11:31 Bill Simmons? No, I could have used like 10 more seconds.
1:11:33 Chris Ryan? Shouldn't that have been Ed Norton?
1:11:34 Bill Simmons? I was really enjoying it. I was like, this is great. These guys are going at it.
1:11:38 Chris Ryan? That'd be funny if that was what Benicio was like, welcome to ours.
1:11:41 Bill Simmons? Welcome to ours. Hold on. I just want to see who wins this point.
1:11:44 Chris Ryan? Yeah, not the hanging guys, just the handball game.
1:11:46 Bill Simmons? We mentioned Crooked Cop Ted wandering around with a suspicious cartel money band in his wallet. And then Sicario 2 Soldado, it's fine. Don't have the same director or screenwriter.
1:11:58 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, got it. It does have the same screenwriter, doesn't it? Isn't it Sheridan?
1:12:02 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:12:04 Chris Ryan? Stefano Salima directed it, yeah.
1:12:05 Bill Simmons? It's fine. It's a cable movie.
1:12:07 Chris Ryan? It's a pretty good movie.
1:12:09 Sean Fennessey? Chris is a big fan.
1:12:10 Chris Ryan? It just deepens the Graver side a lot, which is fascinating to me.
1:12:14 Bill Simmons? It's fine.
1:12:15 Sean Fennessey? It's one of the most evil movies ever made.
1:12:16 Chris Ryan? It's fucking diabolical.
1:12:17 Sean Fennessey? It is crazy.
1:12:18 Bill Simmons? I had one more, but what did you have for what's yours?
1:12:21 Chris Ryan? Well, when you're watching it, and I know it's supposed to be a joke between the two coworkers, but like the idea that 2015 Emily Blunt is supposed to be this like ratty piece of shit that no one wants to date is pretty wild. He's like, yeah, your fucking eyebrows are all out of control.
1:12:36 Bill Simmons? It's tough.
1:12:36 Chris Ryan? You're like, alright, man, that's fucking Emily Blunt.
1:12:38 Bill Simmons? It's tough.
1:12:39 Chris Ryan? They kind of skirt past the like Alejandro's Cartagena cartel connections. Like they, I know that he says like he works for anybody who will put him in the like, point him in the direction of the people who made him. But I think it would have been a little bit helpful to like learn a little bit more about like, so the United States government is working in concert with the remnants of the Colombian cartels to reestablish their control of the, that is what we're doing. Okay.
1:13:09 Sean Fennessey? I do think that that is ultimately what the movie is saying. I think that that's Graver's point of view, that that is the approach that the CIA is taking to keep order, which is, which sounds horrible, but there is a significant amount of evidence to suggest that these kinds of things have been done in American history. So it's not that crazy. I don't know. I don't know if it's aged, I don't know if it's aged the worst so much as it's like, you gotta get on board with that idea for the movie to seem credible.
1:13:33 Chris Ryan? The only other thing I would say is aged the worst is that in the screenplay Reggie, the Daniel Kaluuya character, his last name is Wayne, which just feels like Taylor Sheridan was watching a Colts game. It was like, good name, Reggie Wayne.
1:13:44 Bill Simmons? Or didn't like the Colts.
1:13:45 Chris Ryan? Yeah, exactly.
1:13:46 Sean Fennessey? Could be.
1:13:46 Bill Simmons? Do you have any?
1:13:48 Sean Fennessey? Well. Juarez, which is portrayed as the scariest city on earth.
1:13:53 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:13:53 Sean Fennessey? Was not really happy with the movie.
1:13:55 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:13:56 Sean Fennessey? And, you know, Sheridan has said that it was like 2010, 2011 when he was writing the screenplay, which is when the city was really in very, very dire straits with the drug war. And in 2015, it was like starting to improve. Um, and its crime rates were changing. And then now I just read that it is now fallen out of the top 15 most dangerous cities in the world.
1:14:16 Chris Ryan? Wow.
1:14:16 Sean Fennessey? It has fewer than 1,000 murders per year.
1:14:18 Chris Ryan? Pretty significant if it was number three for a while.
1:14:20 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, it's, I mean, it was, it was one of the five most dangerous places to live for like 30 years. And it, it, the city has changed a lot. And so because of that, and you can like read all about this in all the El Paso newspapers and stuff. The movie has like, it does feel like more of an artifact of a time for that city. It doesn't mean that the drug wars is still happening.
1:14:37 Bill Simmons? 2015 thing.
1:14:39 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:14:40 Chris Ryan? Although broadly speaking, El Mencho recently making some headlines, like I think that the, the violence is still.
1:14:46 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, the Mexican drug will trade is still very much happening. Um, I think just in general, I, you know, the drug war itself is like, as the eternal quagmire of American life is still going on. And then we, we mentioned the Martian and the walk thing, which is so fascinating.
1:15:02 Bill Simmons? My last thing, and it, it might be a possible new word, but I was thinking about Emily Blunt, the hookup scene with Berthold. They're really going at it. And anytime I watch something like this, I always think about what it's like for the husband or the wife.
1:15:16 Chris Ryan? Krasinski.
1:15:17 Bill Simmons? Of the person in the scene.
1:15:18 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:15:18 Bill Simmons? And in this case, I was thinking about Krasinski, just like Sicario premiere. So just to warn you, there is a kissing scene with Berthold and then you're watching that on a 55 foot screen. What are your next like three minutes?
1:15:30 Chris Ryan? I think it's why he became Jack Ryan and got fully yoked is because he couldn't handle seeing that.
1:15:35 Sean Fennessey? It's probably something to that.
1:15:38 Bill Simmons? What are your thoughts, Craig? I mean, this is why you're here for important questions like this.
1:15:41 Speaker 04 How you can get over this as the husband of him.
1:15:43 Bill Simmons? I don't understand it either.
1:15:44 Speaker 04 No, you can't come.
1:15:45 Bill Simmons? I'm not like a crazy jealous person. I just think to watch somebody.
1:15:49 Speaker 04 Well, it's why actors.
1:15:49 Bill Simmons? Really go at it with your wife.
1:15:50 Chris Ryan? This was also supposed to be a nude scene, which they got out of the movie.
1:15:53 Bill Simmons? That's even worse.
1:15:54 Speaker 04 It's why actors date actors, you know? It's like, I can understand because I've been in these scenarios. If you get to hook up with Berthold, I get to hook up with somebody else.
1:16:02 Chris Ryan? It's not even hooking up too. It's also then he chokes her out. Can you imagine being at the post premiere party and just being like, hey, man?
1:16:09 Speaker 04 It's like doctors date doctors because they're the only ones who really knows what it's like. You, I, actors have to date actors.
1:16:14 Bill Simmons? Well, I was, I don't know what the award would be, but maybe it's a, the movie theater cuck award goes to John Krasinski, just watching this going, why? Why you didn't tell me this was in here? Why?
1:16:28 Sean Fennessey? The only good use of AI would be putting Krasinski in the George C. Scott in hardcore scene. That actually, that I would enjoy.
1:16:36 Bill Simmons? Then I was trying to think what would be the worst one to be the husband in the theater for, and there's just a lot of candidates, so let's move on.
1:16:44 Sean Fennessey? Okay.
1:16:45 Bill Simmons? The Ruffalo Hannah Rubenek Partridge over acting award.
1:16:48 Chris Ryan? Pretty, pretty understated.
1:16:50 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I was gonna say, this is a pretty mellow movie.
1:16:52 Sean Fennessey? I mean, guys, it's burnt though. Like, let's, what are you kidding? Burnt though, the finger in his ear?
1:16:56 Bill Simmons? Oh, in the car?
1:16:57 Chris Ryan? I'm him over my head. Yeah.
1:17:00 Bill Simmons? You have a flex category, Sean.
1:17:03 Sean Fennessey? Um, I chose when would I have died? And I wrote down the first scene, the second scene, the third scene, the fourth scene.
1:17:10 Chris Ryan? You'd die when Matt Graeber was just asking guys stuff?
1:17:13 Bill Simmons? That day, you just died.
1:17:14 Sean Fennessey? It would have been tough. I don't think I would have been able to hang in in this movie.
1:17:17 Bill Simmons? I think I would have bought it in the tunnel.
1:17:18 Speaker 04 How bad do you think two shots to the chest, wearing a vest, hurts?
1:17:24 Bill Simmons? That would have been a good door flares to work.
1:17:25 Speaker 04 Yeah, that was what I was thinking about.
1:17:27 Sean Fennessey? You want, you want to try it?
1:17:28 Speaker 04 Well, is that like something that anybody can do and like an hour later, you're fine? Or is it like you're out for a week?
1:17:33 Chris Ryan? She's still wheezing when she's talking to, to Graeber.
1:17:37 Speaker 04 Are we talking like broken ribs?
1:17:38 Chris Ryan? Yeah, I definitely think so.
1:17:39 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:17:40 Chris Ryan? She has, when we see her in her apartment after he's come back, I don't think she's like been on the jobs.
1:17:46 Bill Simmons? It could be a new Ringer, maybe a new Ringer video series.
1:17:49 Speaker 04 The new intern each summer?
1:17:51 Bill Simmons? We just shoot people.
1:17:52 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, does a capella. Two in the chest with Craig Horlbeck.
1:17:55 Speaker 04 Truth or DeHarrison? Truth or two in the chest?
1:18:01 Bill Simmons? The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford, how does take a word? I ever really, you did rears.
1:18:06 Chris Ryan? I kinda did mine. The other one I had was just that this movie is like an excellent allegory for American foreign policy since the Cold War. That it's like you take advantage of a.
1:18:16 Bill Simmons? Strong use of the word allegory.
1:18:17 Chris Ryan? Thanks, brother. It's CR month. I gotta bring, bring it.
1:18:20 Bill Simmons? CR month.
1:18:21 Chris Ryan? You take advantage of a crisis or a tragedy and you prey on the personal or collective desire for justice among the population, or in this case, in Kate, and use overwhelming military force to bring an end to the chaos and violence, only to be exposed for having ulterior motives. Not that I'm saying the United States does that.
1:18:42 Sean Fennessey? No, you would never. Not on Netflix, you wouldn't say that.
1:18:44 Chris Ryan? No.
1:18:45 Bill Simmons? Do you have a hottest take?
1:18:46 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, the success of Yellowstone is the biggest loss for movies of the last decade.
1:18:50 Bill Simmons? There you go. That's a great hottest take.
1:18:52 Chris Ryan? You've been circling this.
1:18:53 Sean Fennessey? It's, it's the most emblematic thing. This is like, this guy was like, I, maybe I'll be William Goldman. He was like, mm, just kidding, I want to be David E. Kelly. It's like, that's fucking boring.
1:19:01 Speaker 04 Are there any other examples of that, starting at prestige and premium and kind of like going the other direction? Not that Yellowstone is not prestige, but you know.
1:19:10 Chris Ryan? A movie screenwriter who then just becomes like a TV writer? I mean, Pizzalotto, I think writes, is he very future star?
1:19:19 Sean Fennessey? I'll tell you who's an interesting example is Mike White.
1:19:21 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:19:23 Bill Simmons? Mike White.
1:19:23 Sean Fennessey? Now, the White Lotus is still very prestigious.
1:19:25 Bill Simmons? Survivor 50 is Mike White.
1:19:27 Sean Fennessey? But jacked.
1:19:29 Bill Simmons? Jacked.
1:19:29 Chris Ryan? Unreal.
1:19:30 Bill Simmons? So proud of himself.
1:19:31 Sean Fennessey? Crazy. I would be ripping my shirt off, too.
1:19:33 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:19:34 Chris Ryan? Do you think that that was related to going on Survivor, or was he just like, I'm gonna get yoked up?
1:19:38 Bill Simmons? I think he's, I think he got yoked up because he's a wealthy guy who was gonna be in Survivor and was like, I didn't like.
1:19:45 Chris Ryan? Would you do that if you were going on Survivor?
1:19:46 Bill Simmons? Last night. I wouldn't go because I have contact lenses.
1:19:50 Sean Fennessey? What do you, I noticed in Survivor 50, there was a, was it Stephanie who has glasses on sometimes, but not all the time, which leads me to believe that she does have contact lenses there?
1:19:59 Chris Ryan? Yeah, I was, I think, are you reacting to the not being allowed to have contact lenses? Or?
1:20:03 Bill Simmons? I just don't feel like that. I feel like I'd have an eye infection the first week.
1:20:06 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:20:06 Bill Simmons? Also the allergies.
1:20:08 Chris Ryan? I would just flip out because of the nicotine thing.
1:20:11 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I'd be chucked in.
1:20:12 Sean Fennessey? If you could bring Zen, you would go on Survivor?
1:20:14 Speaker 03 I would just give a vote out first, because by like hour nine, I would be like motherfucking people like throwing games.
1:20:18 Bill Simmons? You can't find out what's going on in sports on the island either, right?
1:20:22 Speaker 03 Yeah, but I think I would, if being on Survivor would, it has to take a little bit of pressure.
1:20:26 Bill Simmons? Tatum's coming back on Friday night!
1:20:28 Speaker 03 So wait, you-
1:20:29 Sean Fennessey? You can't take thirty-five days off from this.
1:20:31 Speaker 03 They're like, you can have a steak dinner or find out who won Celtics Sixers.
1:20:35 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I would be trying to win the challenges.
1:20:37 Speaker 03 What if that was your letters from home?
1:20:39 Bill Simmons? You'll find three sports tidbits.
1:20:40 Speaker 03 Your letter from home was just, Thursday, February ninth, Celtics won oh four, Nets eighty-nine.
1:20:49 Bill Simmons? I thought I would have told my, I definitely told my wife.
1:20:51 Speaker 03 Five percent.
1:20:52 Speaker 04 You would have told Carrie, fit as many scores as you can onto one page.
1:20:56 Speaker 03 Dear Dad.
1:20:57 Bill Simmons? The Patriots signed Alec Pierce.
1:20:59 Speaker 03 Oh my god, that would be so funny.
1:21:00 Bill Simmons? You finally have a big play receiver.
1:21:02 Speaker 03 And you're just sobbing, I knew Tatum was coming back! Everybody else is like, dude, it's from my box.
1:21:11 Sean Fennessey? You should, if you, if you go on Survivor and-
1:21:14 Bill Simmons? Just sports.
1:21:14 Sean Fennessey? Know the episode where like, family could visit, you should have Chris come in.
1:21:18 Speaker 03 SG, what the fuck?
1:21:20 Sean Fennessey? You can update Joe on everything.
1:21:21 Speaker 04 You guys traded a first for AJ Brown, he's like, no!
1:21:24 Speaker 03 You're not gonna believe what Yasmine did on the season finale of Industry.
1:21:29 Sean Fennessey? I've been circling the five feet, remember that scene?
1:21:31 Bill Simmons? Yasmine is now Jelaine Maxwell.
1:21:35 Speaker 03 You just spoiled Industry for him.
1:21:37 Bill Simmons? Sorry, guys.
1:21:40 Bill Simmons? My hottest take.
1:21:43 Bill Simmons? Benicio del Toro, uh, doesn't get enough credit for being a legendary stick man.
1:21:48 Speaker 03 Oh.
1:21:49 Bill Simmons? Yeah, never mentioned when they talk about-
1:21:51 Sean Fennessey? Is that a thing known about him?
1:21:52 Bill Simmons? The big celebrity ladies man, uh, seriously dated Valerie Galena in the late eighties, the lady from Rain Man.
1:21:59 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:21:59 Speaker 03 Oh yeah.
1:22:00 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, the lady from Hot Shots.
1:22:01 Bill Simmons? Claire Forlani in the mid nineties. Chiara Mastriani, late nineties, daughter of Catherine Deneuve. Sophie Doll in the early two thousands, dated Catherine Keener, Sarah Foster, and Kimberly Stewart. Also dated Heather Graham in the late nineties. Had flings with Alicia Silverstone in the mid nineties, Lindsay Lohan in the mid two thousands, and Scarlett Johansson in the, in two thousand and four. Benicio, just keeps it quiet like it's Sicario, just takes care of business, nobody knows what he's up to.
1:22:30 Speaker 03 I hope they save this for his lifetime achievement award.
1:22:32 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:22:33 Speaker 04 Lindsay Lohan?
1:22:34 Bill Simmons? Yeah, just, it's all, you can find all of it on Google.
1:22:37 Sean Fennessey? Did they do a film together?
1:22:39 Bill Simmons? I just think he was in the circles.
1:22:41 Sean Fennessey? He was hanging out.
1:22:41 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:22:42 Sean Fennessey? He starred with Alicia Silverstone in Excess Baggage, you may recall.
1:22:46 Bill Simmons? Once you get vetted by a couple, it's just you're off.
1:22:48 Chris Ryan? And she's in Alligator, right? With him?
1:22:53 Chris Ryan? Isn't she the wife in Alligator?
1:22:54 Sean Fennessey? Reptile.
1:22:54 Chris Ryan? Reptile, sorry.
1:22:55 Sean Fennessey? Yes, Reptile. Have you seen Reptile on Netflix?
1:22:58 Chris Ryan? Really good.
1:22:59 Sean Fennessey? Very, very like, I think you would like it if you haven't seen it. Benicio is a murder cop.
1:23:04 Bill Simmons? I haven't seen it. It's on my list.
1:23:06 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:23:06 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, it was like kind of critically reviled, but Chris and I had a text message one night. It was like, you see Reptile? Yeah, bro. We were like, yeah, it's pretty fucking good.
1:23:12 Chris Ryan? And it's like sneaky, it's like two and a half hours long.
1:23:15 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, it's very long.
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1:24:49 Bill Simmons? Casting what ifs.
1:24:52 Bill Simmons? Josh Brolin turned that in the film because he had just done Everest. And then Big shot Raj, Roger Deakin, sent him an email imploring him to join and Brolin changed his mind.
1:25:00 Chris Ryan? Said, "Stop being an asshole."
1:25:02 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Said, "Come on, mate." That's all I have for casting what ifs.
1:25:06 Chris Ryan? Yeah, there wasn't that, it seems like this was kind of like-
1:25:08 Bill Simmons? Nah, we need 10 more years, then it'll be like Leo DiCaprio almost did it.
1:25:11 Chris Ryan? Do you have, or do you want to wait, but I was curious whether you had some alternatives for Blunt?
1:25:17 Bill Simmons? I really didn't, and I, and I looked hard, and I looked at all the best actress, best supporting actress nominations. Tried to figure out the ages and all that, and could have come up with a better one, because you go like Anne Hathaway, I don't see it.
1:25:32 Bill Simmons? The Amy Adams, no. Like, you go on through and then-
1:25:35 Sean Fennessey? Well, there's a big sliding door here, which is that she doesn't do Black Widow for Marvel, and Scarlett Johansson does it.
1:25:42 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:25:43 Sean Fennessey? And is there a world where that's reversed and it's Scarlett, could Scarlett Johansson be?
1:25:49 Bill Simmons? I just think Scarlett Johansson by 2015 has built up so much leading actress sexy cred that I don't think you could just buy her in this movie out of nowhere.
1:26:00 Chris Ryan? Also, Emily Blunt benefits from Edge of Tomorrow coming out a year and a half before.
1:26:04 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:26:05 Sean Fennessey? Totally agree.
1:26:05 Chris Ryan? You buy her physicality this movie.
1:26:07 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I do think though, if you Time Machine Kate Winslet in like 2005 and put her forward 10 years, that's the perfect one. I think this would have been, and it's a little like the Mayor of Easttown character, a tiny bit, like the beaten down, I think she would have been great. But I think she's a little older at this point, because this character needs to be what, like?
1:26:25 Chris Ryan? I think she's like 30.
1:26:27 Sean Fennessey? 29, 30. 30, yeah, it feels like 30.
1:26:28 Bill Simmons? So, I couldn't come up with a better answer.
1:26:30 Chris Ryan? She's been married and divorced in this movie, but yeah.
1:26:31 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Best that guy word, Jeffrey Donovan is not eligible and neither is Victor Garber.
1:26:38 Sean Fennessey? Maximiliano Hernandez.
1:26:40 Bill Simmons? So what else is he in?
1:26:41 Sean Fennessey? The Mexican cop, he's in the Marvel films, he's in Hydra.
1:26:44 Bill Simmons? Oh, see, I didn't, I didn't-
1:26:45 Chris Ryan? Oh, is that the guy who talks to Alejandro and is like, "I'm sorry about your kid," no, wait.
1:26:48 Sean Fennessey? No, no, the cop.
1:26:49 Chris Ryan? Oh, Silvio.
1:26:49 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, Silvio, yeah, the bald cop.
1:26:51 Speaker 04 You guys do realize that 99.9% of society could not name Victor Garber, right?
1:26:55 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I think, I think the real answer is Victor Garber.
1:26:57 Chris Ryan? We're, we're at a kind of a-
1:26:59 Sean Fennessey? A famous stage actor who was on Alias for like 10 years.
1:27:02 Chris Ryan? But could they say that's Victor Garber?
1:27:04 Speaker 04 I think it's Victor Garber. Or they say that's the guy from Alias.
1:27:06 Chris Ryan? Right.
1:27:07 Bill Simmons? I think it sadly is Victor Garber.
1:27:08 Sean Fennessey? That's Sidney Bristow's dad.
1:27:11 Bill Simmons? Dion Waiters award is, uh, burnt off, I think.
1:27:15 Chris Ryan? Uh, I got Donovan.
1:27:17 Sean Fennessey? I have Donovan too.
1:27:18 Bill Simmons? Over burnt off?
1:27:19 Chris Ryan? Donovan's like, I have gonorrhea and I'm like the world's greatest killer, like, and he's in three scenes.
1:27:25 Sean Fennessey? I'm a, I'm a CR.
1:27:26 Bill Simmons? I voted for burnt off, but I got voted.
1:27:28 Chris Ryan? When they, when they're about to waterboard Guillermo and he's like, I'm gonna step out of the room. Turns the camera off. It's like the most chilling shit.
1:27:37 Speaker 04 What's going on in that scene?
1:27:39 Chris Ryan? Uh.
1:27:40 Speaker 04 There's, there's, there's like questioning about what he's actually doing, what Alejandro is doing when he gets up close to him.
1:27:45 Chris Ryan? I think it's supposed to emasculate him.
1:27:47 Speaker 04 Is it intimidation or does something actually happen?
1:27:49 Chris Ryan? Oh, no, he's not gonna do anything.
1:27:51 Sean Fennessey? He's just taunting him.
1:27:52 Chris Ryan? Sexual to him. Is that what you're talking about?
1:27:53 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:27:54 Chris Ryan? No, yeah. I think he's gonna waterboard.
1:27:55 Sean Fennessey? You mean just like drop his balls on his head? What do you mean?
1:27:58 Speaker 04 Like, if you read the Sicario Reddit thread, a lot of people think he like sexually assaults him.
1:28:04 Bill Simmons? Oh.
1:28:04 Chris Ryan? I didn't know that.
1:28:05 Speaker 04 No?
1:28:06 Chris Ryan? I thought it was supposed to be.
1:28:06 Speaker 04 Putting his crotch in his mouth.
1:28:08 Chris Ryan? Sexually emasculating him.
1:28:10 Sean Fennessey? You think that would be crossing the line for Alejandro? Not the waterboarding or mass murder?
1:28:15 Speaker 04 Well, and that the idea was that.
1:28:17 Chris Ryan? Not the child executions?
1:28:18 Speaker 04 Reddit was speculating.
1:28:19 Bill Simmons? People really think that?
1:28:20 Speaker 04 Well, that he brought in the water jug to pretend as though he's gonna go waterboard him and that's what the cameras see. And then when they turn the cameras off, he does something else.
1:28:27 Chris Ryan? Uh, I think the water's going into the drain.
1:28:29 Speaker 04 There's no water going down the drain.
1:28:30 Chris Ryan? Oh, okay.
1:28:31 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:28:31 Speaker 04 I showed the drain deliberately.
1:28:33 Chris Ryan? I don't, I don't know.
1:28:34 Sean Fennessey? I guess that's fair.
1:28:34 Chris Ryan? I didn't think that. I didn't think that's why they were.
1:28:37 Sean Fennessey? It's all in play with Alejandro, you know?
1:28:39 Chris Ryan? Sure. That was, that's interesting though, Craig. Thanks for bringing that to our discussion.
1:28:43 Speaker 04 It might be sexual assault.
1:28:44 Bill Simmons? I think he would have brought the sisters in though.
1:28:47 Chris Ryan? From Shawshank?
1:28:49 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I think he would have come in and said, I could be a real friend to you.
1:28:52 Sean Fennessey? Do you think he should be able to jump from movie to movie?
1:28:54 Speaker 04 No water. I don't know.
1:28:56 Bill Simmons? Uh.
1:28:57 Chris Ryan? This is, does it, I, in my mind, I thought, I guess I thought I, I heard water.
1:29:01 Bill Simmons? CR's done for the podcast. This is blue as per.
1:29:03 Sean Fennessey? No, no.
1:29:04 Bill Simmons? It's like, I don't know if I like Alejandro as much.
1:29:06 Chris Ryan? Yeah, now I'm, now he's really like disappointed.
1:29:08 Bill Simmons? Now I'm disappointed in a recasting couch director city. Uh, instead of Juarez, can I float Philadelphia?
1:29:15 Chris Ryan? Real nice.
1:29:17 Bill Simmons? They're trying to get Embiid out of Philly?
1:29:18 Chris Ryan? Really classy. It's CR month and you're already taking shots at me? Philadelphia.
1:29:23 Bill Simmons? Trying to get A.J. Brown to, to an AFC East team?
1:29:26 Chris Ryan? Uh huh.
1:29:27 Bill Simmons? Uh, Craig, you have a flex category. Do we have Craig's special camera or no?
1:29:30 Chris Ryan? Jerk off.
1:29:34 Bill Simmons? CR, if they could just yell at me.
1:29:37 Speaker 04 I want to implement a new, a new tool for the show. And you know, this, you guys are the preeminent counsel for Hollywood.
1:29:44 Chris Ryan? From the producers of AI Roger Ebert?
1:29:46 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:29:46 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:29:47 Speaker 04 As the Hollywood czars, I think, you know, tomorrow, March 3rd is the, is the NFL franchise tag deadline.
1:29:54 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:29:54 Speaker 04 Franchise tag, you can prevent a player from getting a second contract somewhere else and they have to stay on your team. I think there should be a movie franchise tag.
1:30:02 Bill Simmons? Hmm.
1:30:02 Speaker 04 And for Sicario, the movie comes out, you guys get to vote. Oh, they want to make Sicario 2? I'm sorry, there is literally a franchise tag on this movie.
1:30:13 Bill Simmons? Oh, so it's like a committee, almost like in college football. There's 10 people on it.
1:30:17 Speaker 04 When this, when I heard about the sequel, I was so disappointed. I'm like, ah. And it's like, oh, you want to make Devil Wears Prada 2? Sorry, it's been franchise tagged. Five movies a year that you actually get to put the stamp on, no sequels.
1:30:27 Sean Fennessey? Wow, well.
1:30:27 Speaker 04 A literal movie franchise tag.
1:30:29 Sean Fennessey? You are the rare.
1:30:30 Bill Simmons? I really like this idea.
1:30:31 Sean Fennessey? Full throated Sicario 2.
1:30:32 Chris Ryan? I would say I'm closer to the guy on the Jags who was like, I'm getting, I'm moving up to get Travis Hunter. And that we didn't go far enough. Like, we should already be on Sicario colon capos, which is what the third one's supposed to be called. We should be, there's no reason that we have not gotten a third Sicario movie yet. If you're gonna break the seal, like, we should be on Sicario 4 by now.
1:30:55 Bill Simmons? But why, why aren't we just on the best version of a prestige TV series with Sicario? Like, why aren't we in, like, season 8?
1:31:02 Chris Ryan? Benicio Del Toro's not gonna do that.
1:31:05 Bill Simmons? Is he? He's not?
1:31:06 Chris Ryan? I don't think so.
1:31:08 Sean Fennessey? He's in one battle after another.
1:31:09 Bill Simmons? Did you think Billy Bob Thornton would be in three TV shows at this point?
1:31:12 Chris Ryan? Yeah. I think he likes hanging out and playing music and making some money and.
1:31:17 Bill Simmons? I think we could have gotten Del Toro.
1:31:18 Chris Ryan? Del Toro's not doing TV.
1:31:19 Sean Fennessey? I'll do it. I'll play Alejandro. I can do it.
1:31:22 Chris Ryan? Now that you found out that he's a sexual deviant, as well as a child murderer.
1:31:27 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, it seems more approachable, yeah.
1:31:29 Bill Simmons? So what else would you franchise tag from this year? It's also, it's like a franchise cross off.
1:31:35 Sean Fennessey? I mean, Sinners 2 is coming.
1:31:37 Speaker 04 Yes, you franchise tag that. Come on.
1:31:39 Sean Fennessey? That's gonna happen.
1:31:40 Bill Simmons? That's a tag.
1:31:41 Sean Fennessey? I mean, there's, not next, it's gonna be Twilight Zone and Black Panther 3, but I mean, there's just way too much money there.
1:31:48 Chris Ryan? So you think they'll set it in the 90s where they're hanging out?
1:31:50 Sean Fennessey? I think, I think they should.
1:31:51 Speaker 04 Ugh, like Barbie, you franchise tag. I don't want to see another Barbie.
1:31:54 Sean Fennessey? They only made Barbie to make more Barbies.
1:31:56 Speaker 04 Sinners, you have to franchise tag Sinners.
1:31:58 Chris Ryan? Franchise tag Oppenheimer?
1:32:02 Speaker 03 No. I want Oppenheimer 2.
1:32:04 Bill Simmons? What's Oppie 2 about?
1:32:06 Speaker 03 Uh, he's just like teaching after that, right?
1:32:08 Bill Simmons? That'd be a great movie. It's like Dead Poet Society with Oppie.
1:32:12 Speaker 03 But with Oppenheimer.
1:32:14 Bill Simmons? I wouldn't franchise Tag Limitless. I could do like three more. Yeah. Did you watch the show? No, the show, it wasn't. Who was the star of the show? I don't know.
1:32:23 Speaker 03 But Coops is like in it briefly, right?
1:32:25 Bill Simmons? Yeah, he does a stop by. Half-Assed Internet Research, the border crossing scene, they had to build a full-scale replica of the Juarez border because they couldn't figure out how to pull it off with all the days they would have to stop traffic. They asked for permission, right? And they were like, nope.
1:32:44 Bill Simmons? Like, thanks anyway.
1:32:45 Speaker 03 Can we close the US-Mexico border for multiple days?
1:32:48 Bill Simmons? They're like, actually, you can't. The thermal vision shots were filmed with an FLIRSC 8300 thermal vision camera.
1:32:56 Speaker 03 What Gao is using for us today.
1:32:58 Bill Simmons? Not added in post-production. That would have been sick if this was infrared.
1:33:02 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:33:03 Bill Simmons? They only had it for one day.
1:33:04 Speaker 03 That's a good Gondolia word, night vision. There's night vision, I'm in.
1:33:07 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Yeah. A props man heated the soles of his shoes to see the footprints. I love that. Yeah, great stuff. The word sicario derives from the Latin word sicarius, meaning daggery man. And then Emily Blunt got so sick from food poisoning in Mexico, she required IV fluids between takes to make it through scenes. And then, uh, there's a part in the tunnel scene, after the tunnel scene, Brolin's telling Kate about Alejandro, and he pauses for a second or two and talking about her going up the wrong tunnel. And he said in an interview, he paused because he forgot his lines. And he literally froze for like two seconds, but then in the cut, it actually worked. So great.
1:33:50 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:33:52 Bill Simmons? For their fight scene, Bernthal assured Blunt that he was an experienced boxer and she could hit him at full strength, which she did. She does really take a shot at him, yeah. The Wild Pony Bar was in Los Lunas, New Mexico, 29 miles south of Albuquerque, 425 miles from Tucson, where it was supposed to be. Closed down in 2015 after a fatal gang shooting occurred between the Bandidos and the Poor Boys. Can't have nice things. Now, it's called The Horseshoe. It's a public meeting place. I don't know what a public meeting place is. I don't know either. I saw that and I was just like, do we have to go investigate this? What's happening?
1:34:24 Sean Fennessey? Live rewatchables there.
1:34:25 Bill Simmons? Public meeting, like? Like smoke Indian creaks and drink beers, or is like, let's have a? You just kind of meet? Folk dancing festival. Like a fantasy baseball draft there?
1:34:38 Sean Fennessey? Should we do fantasy baseball this year?
1:34:40 Bill Simmons? Please no. Oh, for the Ringer?
1:34:43 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, I'm thinking about it.
1:34:45 Bill Simmons? You know I'm in that crazy Alcibi.
1:34:47 Sean Fennessey? I got dead last. Why am I not invited? Hyphens is not invited.
1:34:51 Bill Simmons? Oh, you just want to leave those guys out because you got screwed? Can't have hyphens. Wait, no, like for the sake of the narrative. Apex Mountain, would you say blunt here or would you go quiet place? I? Or would you go day after tomorrow? Or edge?
1:35:08 Sean Fennessey? I would say quiet place.
1:35:10 Bill Simmons? It's probably quiet place. I think quiet place. This is a more interesting, I know that she's an incredible actress.
1:35:16 Sean Fennessey? I love her. It's kind of sad. I think we're what's been going on the last five years. I don't really like the choices she's been making.
1:35:22 Bill Simmons? You don't like Oppenheimer in Smashing Machine?
1:35:24 Sean Fennessey? I think she's the worst thing in Smashing Machine, straight up.
1:35:28 Bill Simmons? I want to see her have fun in movies. I really like Five Year Engagement. I think she's good in it. But I don't want her to be in? I want to make three more of those. In Jungle Cruise.
1:35:34 Sean Fennessey? That's, I don't, that's, yeah, I have not enjoyed that stuff.
1:35:37 Bill Simmons? She's good in Fall Guy. I like that movie.
1:35:39 Sean Fennessey? She is, okay. They tried. They like, that's a swing and a miss and I like that they tried.
1:35:46 Bill Simmons? Did you see Project Kill Mary yet?
1:35:48 Sean Fennessey? I did. I liked it quite a bit.
1:35:50 Bill Simmons? Heard it was good.
1:35:50 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:35:51 Bill Simmons? The gas is back, man. Fucking gas.
1:35:54 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, it's really good.
1:35:57 Bill Simmons? Juarez, Apex Mountain, probably not.
1:36:01 Chris Ryan? I mean, represented on film, I think it, you know, put it on the quote unquote map.
1:36:05 Bill Simmons? As a movie location.
1:36:06 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:36:06 Bill Simmons? Brolin, I think it's that run after No Country when he was W and he was in like nine movies at once.
1:36:13 Chris Ryan? That this is Apex.
1:36:14 Bill Simmons? I would if it made 200 million, but it made 89.
1:36:17 Chris Ryan? At the end of this year or whenever that, whenever Ultron comes out and he does the cameo at the end.
1:36:20 Sean Fennessey? I think it's Infinity War.
1:36:22 Chris Ryan? You do?
1:36:23 Sean Fennessey? Yeah. I think the, the.
1:36:25 Bill Simmons? What year is Infinity War?
1:36:26 Sean Fennessey? 2018. The level of success of that Avengers movie and him being the big bad that the whole thing is centered around and every character says his name. Now granted, he's CGI in the movie, but he, it is unmistakably Brolin, even though he's like a giant purple alien. I don't know.
1:36:42 Chris Ryan? Can I tell you a story really quickly?
1:36:43 Bill Simmons? Is that a Marvel movie?
1:36:44 Sean Fennessey? It is, yeah.
1:36:44 Chris Ryan? It's, you know, Thanos and he puts the glove on. Do you know the glove with the gems in it?
1:36:48 Bill Simmons? Sure.
1:36:49 Chris Ryan? The Infinity Stones, the Infinity Gauntlet.
1:36:50 Bill Simmons? Totally.
1:36:51 Chris Ryan? I was driving down Santa Monica yesterday and I was at a red light and a gentleman who'd probably seen better times in his life was riding a bicycle past me and he stopped on the sidewalk and reached down for something and I was like, I wonder what this guy's up to. And he picked up the, the glove from the.
1:37:08 Sean Fennessey? Infinity Gauntlet.
1:37:09 Chris Ryan? Yeah, the Infinity Gauntlet. And he was like looking at it and I was like, what if it's the real gauntlet? Like what if this guy just found the stones? No, but there was something in it. Like I think he was doing a drug deal, but like it was pretty amazing.
1:37:25 Sean Fennessey? Was he hiding heroin in it?
1:37:27 Chris Ryan? Whatever he found in there, he was excited. Yeah.
1:37:30 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:37:30 Sean Fennessey? And it was, it was Brolin?
1:37:31 Chris Ryan? Yeah, it was, it was Brolin.
1:37:32 Sean Fennessey? It was Brolin.
1:37:35 Bill Simmons? Cartel movies?
1:37:37 Chris Ryan? Yes.
1:37:39 Bill Simmons? Trying to think, what's the competition?
1:37:40 Sean Fennessey? I mean Scarface, of course.
1:37:43 Chris Ryan? It had been largely Narcos, you know what I mean? Like on, I can't remember when Narcos debuted. I think after this, uh.
1:37:49 Bill Simmons? I would have Scarface over Sicario. Just because it has a longer tail, it's forty-three years of people watching Scarface versus ten for Sicario.
1:37:58 Chris Ryan? Okay.
1:37:58 Bill Simmons? But ten years from now, I'm willing to look at it.
1:38:02 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, I mean, do you consider like Carlito's Way a cartel movie?
1:38:05 Chris Ryan? Not really, more of a, more of a New York crime movie.
1:38:08 Sean Fennessey? There's not a lot of great movies set in this. I mean, obviously, Vincent Chase's masterpiece, Mete E.
1:38:15 Chris Ryan? Yeah, that's true.
1:38:17 Bill Simmons? Forgot about that.
1:38:19 Sean Fennessey? Who could forget?
1:38:20 Bill Simmons? Uh, Vats of Acid as a plot device?
1:38:23 Chris Ryan? Oh, God.
1:38:24 Bill Simmons? I don't know if we've topped it.
1:38:25 Sean Fennessey? I'll say Tim Burton's Batman.
1:38:27 Chris Ryan? Oh, yeah.
1:38:28 Sean Fennessey? Joker goes in.
1:38:28 Bill Simmons? Oh, good point.
1:38:29 Chris Ryan? That's right.
1:38:29 Bill Simmons? Del Toro?
1:38:31 Chris Ryan? I guess Traffic is his apex mountain because he was in the Oscar for that.
1:38:36 Sean Fennessey? Hmm.
1:38:36 Chris Ryan? Traffic made more money than this, probably, I would imagine.
1:38:39 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, probably Traffic. He's been pretty much dope for twenty years now, though. Like, every time he shows on the screen, they're like, oh, hey, Veniseo movie.
1:38:47 Bill Simmons? Kaluya?
1:38:48 Sean Fennessey? No.
1:38:50 Bill Simmons? Dead people buried in walls?
1:38:52 Chris Ryan? Probably.
1:38:53 Bill Simmons? Can't think of it more effective. I really like when the bullet and he's looking through, he's like, what the fuck? Uh, Burnthall, no. Tunnels?
1:39:03 Chris Ryan? Great Escape?
1:39:05 Bill Simmons? It's either this or Fast Five.
1:39:06 Chris Ryan? You don't think The Great Escape is more significant than Fast Five?
1:39:13 Chris Ryan? Or the tunnel in Shawshank?
1:39:15 Bill Simmons? Mount Tunnelmore. Oh, Shawshank?
1:39:17 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:39:18 Bill Simmons? Fast Five, Great Escape?
1:39:19 Chris Ryan? Uh huh.
1:39:20 Bill Simmons? Sicario, where the gun?
1:39:22 Sean Fennessey? One battle.
1:39:22 Bill Simmons? Mount Tunnelmore.
1:39:23 Sean Fennessey? Leo crawls through the tunnel under his house.
1:39:25 Chris Ryan? That's right.
1:39:28 Sean Fennessey? Oh, some good tunnels.
1:39:30 Bill Simmons? Dinner scene executions?
1:39:32 Chris Ryan? Uh.
1:39:35 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:39:36 Sean Fennessey? I mean, the menu. Right, there's a lot of executions there.
1:39:41 Bill Simmons? And then Jeff Donovan, I still have Shotcaller.
1:39:44 Chris Ryan? Since you mentioned Jeff, you mentioned the dinner scene execution?
1:39:48 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:39:48 Chris Ryan? And it is your month. Can I just throw one more flex category in there?
1:39:51 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:39:52 Chris Ryan? Because I did want to talk about this a little bit, which is the, I used to fuck guys like you in prison award for craziest quote. Telling a guy a time to meet God before you kill his family is like as hard as it gets.
1:40:03 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:40:03 Chris Ryan? You wanna say apex mountain for hardness at the dinner table like about like, if, if, can you imagine?
1:40:09 Sean Fennessey? I'll tell a quick true story that just happened two hours ago. I pulled up to your house and I was shoveling a salad in my face so that I could get some food in me before this recording. And parked right outside the place and a car rolls up next to me, drops its window. It's Chris. He turns to me. He says, time to meet God. Then he drives away.
1:40:30 Chris Ryan? There's also a really good, I used to fuck guys like you in prison, quote, when the Delta guy holds Reg down when Graver and Kate are going at it. And he just goes, just lay back and let it happen, baby. It's like, what?
1:40:49 Bill Simmons? Cruise or Hanks?
1:40:50 Chris Ryan? I, I don't know.
1:40:52 Sean Fennessey? Hanks as Graver, Cruise as Alejandro.
1:40:56 Chris Ryan? Cruise as Alejandro.
1:40:57 Bill Simmons? Oh, doing like the collateral cruise?
1:40:59 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, doing Vincent.
1:41:02 Chris Ryan? I'm trying to imagine him saying you were in the land of wolves now.
1:41:05 Sean Fennessey? I think he could do it.
1:41:06 Chris Ryan? Kate, you're in the land of wolves now, Kate.
1:41:09 Sean Fennessey? He couldn't sell the South American aspect of it, obviously.
1:41:12 Bill Simmons? Cruise is the Berthold part?
1:41:14 Sean Fennessey? Wow.
1:41:15 Bill Simmons? Cocktail Cruise?
1:41:16 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, but as Frank T J Mackey. Yeah, yeah.
1:41:18 Chris Ryan? That'd be pretty good.
1:41:19 Bill Simmons? I don't think there's place in this movie for Hanks.
1:41:20 Chris Ryan? You don't think Cruise could be Brolin?
1:41:23 Sean Fennessey? He could.
1:41:24 Chris Ryan? He could.
1:41:25 Bill Simmons? This is more Cruise than Hanks. Scorsese or Spielberg Scorsese?
1:41:31 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:41:32 Bill Simmons? Best hang, worst hang. Brolin, best hang.
1:41:34 Sean Fennessey? Hey, Graver seems kinda fun.
1:41:36 Chris Ryan? Yeah, Graver, I would definitely get beers with Graver.
1:41:38 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:41:39 Bill Simmons? I almost had Kate for worst hang, but she's pretty fun at the bar.
1:41:42 Chris Ryan? Kate would be like, let's get some Indian creeks, man. Let's go.
1:41:45 Bill Simmons? She just needs to be in her element.
1:41:47 Sean Fennessey? You just don't wanna get into like an argument with her about like jurisprudence, you know, like she definitely has got some hangups about who gets to do what.
1:41:52 Chris Ryan? Just talk Broncos, smoke cigs, you know?
1:41:55 Sean Fennessey? She thinks she's a Broncos fan?
1:41:56 Chris Ryan? That area in, you know, you know.
1:41:59 Bill Simmons? One of those like definitely seemed uptight, but the bar, you just saw a different side.
1:42:03 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:42:03 Bill Simmons? Those are, those are some of my favorites back in the day. It's like, oh.
1:42:07 Sean Fennessey? Favorite what?
1:42:08 Bill Simmons? Really home, just, just to hang out with.
1:42:12 Bill Simmons? Like those pool tables, picking nits. How did the Mexican guy miss Emily Blunt in the beginning in Arizona?
1:42:20 Chris Ryan? Oh.
1:42:21 Bill Simmons? She opens the door and he's where Craig is and just completely misses her. So you have one job, you're in a fucking cartel with a gun.
1:42:29 Chris Ryan? The federal guy?
1:42:30 Bill Simmons? The guy when she opens the door and he shoots at her and she kills him.
1:42:36 Sean Fennessey? You'll find out soon with two shots with Craig Horlbeck coming up next.
1:42:39 Chris Ryan? I thought that he might be aiming for the Delta guys. Oh, I guess he was shooting because he shoots out the window. Yeah, he's a bad shot.
1:42:47 Bill Simmons? At the Wild Pony, Kate orders two beers. It's a pet peeve of mine for all movies and TV when people don't say the beer.
1:42:55 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:42:55 Bill Simmons? McLaughlin would have been great because we love McLaughlin.
1:42:57 Chris Ryan? Sure.
1:42:58 Bill Simmons? I'm always like when they're protecting the integrity of we can't have spot. Like you're doing all this other stuff in a movie. And it's like you have to draw the line in integrity of just have her say two beers. Nobody's ever ordered two beers.
1:43:10 Sean Fennessey? What was the primal fear fight that we had though? Where it was like, was it the usual? What was the order that he does at the bar? And you guys were like, this is not correct. I was on the opposite side of you guys.
1:43:19 Chris Ryan? Yeah, you were like, I would love to be able to say the usual and I get like a nice cold martini or something. But we were like, this is horseshit.
1:43:24 Bill Simmons? Names, all these things in movies, just make up a name of beer. So like, give me the Amarillo and Amarillo Light. Great, okay. Just give her the Amarillo Lights and we're ready to go.
1:43:35 Sean Fennessey? So this is really more like you have an issue with the prop master. Like he should have been working a little harder.
1:43:38 Bill Simmons? It takes man of the movie.
1:43:39 Chris Ryan? I share with him where it's like. Everything about the movie is so authentic, except for somebody being like, two beers.
1:43:44 Sean Fennessey? What do you think she likes to drink in real life?
1:43:48 Bill Simmons? Oh, she's definitely pounding light beers.
1:43:50 Chris Ryan? Oh, yeah.
1:43:51 Bill Simmons? Yeah, with shots.
1:43:52 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:43:52 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:43:53 Chris Ryan? Tequila.
1:43:53 Bill Simmons? Couple shots.
1:43:54 Sean Fennessey? Michelob Ultra Boilermaker.
1:43:55 Bill Simmons? Yeah, 90 calorie light beers, but with shots.
1:44:00 Bill Simmons? And she definitely didn't eat all day.
1:44:02 Sean Fennessey? That's very attractive.
1:44:03 Chris Ryan? Yes.
1:44:03 Bill Simmons? Didn't, probably didn't eat the entire day.
1:44:05 Chris Ryan? After she is had a near death experience with Bernthal, she's so fucking haggard.
1:44:13 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:44:14 Chris Ryan? Dark circles under her eyes, her hair is all oily and she's smoking a cig in the bathroom. I'm still like, let's go.
1:44:20 Sean Fennessey? Dana, Dana Wheeler Nicholson Award.
1:44:22 Chris Ryan? I'm just like, like all the draft picks for that.
1:44:25 Bill Simmons? Yeah. At the end of the day, she looks like Emily Blunt.
1:44:28 Chris Ryan? That's what I'm saying, yeah.
1:44:30 Bill Simmons? Yeah, they can't, they can't change it. Well, that leads to another nitpick I had. Would you really have a cigarette right after you've almost been strangled? I feel like I'd wait six hours.
1:44:38 Chris Ryan? Yeah, but when you really smoke, the cigarette comes after everything. Like, when you're really about it.
1:44:43 Bill Simmons? I almost had the life choked out of me. Do you guys have another, what were the cigarettes called?
1:44:47 Chris Ryan? I would have a cigarette after the Heimlich maneuver if I could, you know, like, yeah.
1:44:51 Bill Simmons? I don't know, I think she would have waited. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna make the inappropriate comment. I had Kate trying to arrest Alejandro in the tunnel was ridiculous. It's the worst part of the movie. And then Alejandro forcing Kate to sign the document saying it was all legal. Just sign it and then tell them after he put a gun to my head and forced me to sign it. And I didn't really mean to sign it and here's what happened.
1:45:11 Chris Ryan? Also, just strange that after the Victor Garber character has said they have the authority to do whatever they want, basically, that they're, they're like, this entire thing rests on Kate signing a piece of paper. Now, that whole piece of paper might incriminate Kate, which also may be why she's like, I don't want to sign this because I didn't do anything wrong.
1:45:30 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:45:31 Chris Ryan? But, yeah, there's, there's like a weird end of this movie where Matt allows her to leave the tunnel area despite saying, I'm gonna expose this entire operation.
1:45:41 Bill Simmons? Mm-hmm.
1:45:41 Chris Ryan? And also Alejandro is like, I can't, I have to kill you if you don't sign a piece of paper that we could easily just, like, doctor.
1:45:51 Bill Simmons? She's calling him Al by that point. What do you have for nitpicks?
1:45:54 Sean Fennessey? Well, what's Ted's plan?
1:45:57 Sean Fennessey? Ted has been following.
1:45:58 Chris Ryan? Absolutely.
1:46:00 Sean Fennessey? Kate so that he can seduce her, so that he can get the information that the cartel wants about what she knows because they spotted her going into the bank, right? That's the setup there. But she, did he know that she was gonna go with Reggie, who was a pal of Kate's and who could serve as an, an intro? Is that just good luck?
1:46:22 Bill Simmons? It's the kind of mistake you make when you write a movie not realizing people are gonna watch it 35 times.
1:46:27 Sean Fennessey? Yeah. It's just a little strange credulity.
1:46:30 Bill Simmons? He's trying to get in with her and get closer to her. I don't think he's trying to solve everything in one night, but maybe become like a steady hookup and then he can get information.
1:46:38 Sean Fennessey? Okay.
1:46:38 Chris Ryan? The same thing happens with what's Alejandro's plan.
1:46:43 Chris Ryan? So it's like Sylvia or did they know Sylvia was gonna be at the end of the tunnel? Like, what happens if Sylvia's not there and there are no cars there? Like, how does he catch up with Manuel?
1:46:55 Bill Simmons? Once they kidnapped Guillermo, they know they have like two days, right? Before they destroy the tunnel?
1:46:59 Chris Ryan? Yes.
1:46:59 Bill Simmons? So they're like, immediately it's go time.
1:47:02 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, but then once you get there, how do you find Manuel?
1:47:04 Chris Ryan? Yeah, like if-
1:47:05 Sean Fennessey? I guess you just there, you have to assume you can get a car.
1:47:08 Chris Ryan? Sure.
1:47:08 Sean Fennessey? Right? And you're going somewhere because they're tracking Manuel.
1:47:11 Chris Ryan? Right. Once he crosses into Mexico, yeah.
1:47:12 Sean Fennessey? But having a, a police cruiser is like the ultimate hack for nailing Manuel.
1:47:18 Chris Ryan? Right.
1:47:20 Bill Simmons? How did he know it was dinner time?
1:47:23 Bill Simmons? Could've come like right after when they were playing video games.
1:47:25 Sean Fennessey? Great note.
1:47:27 Bill Simmons? She's really, really fortunate.
1:47:29 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:47:29 Bill Simmons? Shows up.
1:47:30 Chris Ryan? Walks up, the kids are playing Madden.
1:47:33 Bill Simmons? I'll let them finish. It's the fourth quarter.
1:47:35 Chris Ryan? Are you running the spread?
1:47:39 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:47:41 Sean Fennessey? Time to be Bill Parcells.
1:47:44 Bill Simmons? Any other nitpicks?
1:47:45 Chris Ryan? Uh...
1:47:46 Bill Simmons? We covered a lot.
1:47:48 Chris Ryan? I think we've hit all of them. Sometimes it feels like Graver will be candid with Kate when it's convenient for the movie, but why would he be like that otherwise?
1:47:56 Sean Fennessey? Agree with that. He explains a lot of stuff he doesn't have to explain.
1:47:59 Bill Simmons? Did we cover everything?
1:48:01 Chris Ryan? Yeah, I think so.
1:48:01 Bill Simmons? Alright. Sequel, prequel, Prestige TV, all Black Cast or Untouchable? Um, Prestige TV would work for this.
1:48:07 Chris Ryan? Yeah, I would take-
1:48:08 Bill Simmons? I actually think it could evolve with the news and, um, kind of what, what should've happened with Homeland and they just kind of fucked it up. But Homeland, I, I, they got so, Brody was so popular that it kind of fucked up the show and then they brought him back.
1:48:23 Sean Fennessey? Could've been a different kind of conflict. Yeah.
1:48:25 Bill Simmons? It just should've been new, new season, new everything.
1:48:28 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, that's-
1:48:28 Bill Simmons? Like 24. 24 would do that.
1:48:30 Chris Ryan? Very realistic. Um, the, uh-
1:48:36 Chris Ryan? The sequel, there is a sequel. I take a third, but I would also watch, albeit I think I would go to hell for watching it. Alejandro, Mexican prosecutor and Colombian cartel assassin, like the prequel to how he gets hooked up with them. And also-
1:48:51 Bill Simmons? I think that's that Patrick Dempsey show. I think that's the premise.
1:48:54 Chris Ryan? Was that what it's called?
1:48:55 Bill Simmons? Memories of a murderer.
1:48:56 Chris Ryan? Oh, and he's like a hitman?
1:48:57 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:48:58 Chris Ryan? Uh, I would also watch Kate, small town sheriff after she like moves out of Arizona and he's like, go to a small town where the rule of law still exists.
1:49:06 Sean Fennessey? I want the Jeffrey Donovan show.
1:49:08 Chris Ryan? Yeah, well, that's essentially two.
1:49:10 Bill Simmons? Him just getting boners?
1:49:11 Sean Fennessey? Yeah. Kraken wise.
1:49:14 Bill Simmons? Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Fergie the florist, Zane Lowe, or somebody else CR? It is CR month.
1:49:19 Chris Ryan? I'm getting too seduced by Zane, but I gotta do it. Uh, Zane talking to Ted before he goes into the bar. Ted, man. Here we are. You've been low, man. You struck out in slow pitched softball in front of the entire Phoenix law enforcement community. But you're ready to rise again like a phoenix, brother. And here you are. You got Kate in there. Just make sure you don't use the rubber bands of the snoring cartel, brother. That, now that I hear it out loud in my head, sounds a little like Danny Archer in Blood Diamond.
1:49:54 Chris Ryan? Like I'm saying, TIA.
1:49:57 Sean Fennessey? Diplomatic community.
1:49:59 Bill Simmons? Add Danny Archer to the possibility.
1:50:02 Chris Ryan? I'm sorry, Zane, you're not, you're not, it's not that for you. But yeah, that was what I had. Tell me about your Jenny Ted.
1:50:08 Sean Fennessey? Oh my god.
1:50:10 Bill Simmons? I thought for sure we're getting Wayne. Wayne must be officially retired.
1:50:13 Sean Fennessey? Sounds like it.
1:50:13 Chris Ryan? I think Wayne's gotta take a minute. Wayne's gotta, we gotta put Wayne in the bullpen. I, I mean, I would use Fergie, but there's a lot of chemical way in this movie, so.
1:50:21 Sean Fennessey? Does he, when they, when they, when Benicio's finger goes in his ear, does he say, goddamn?
1:50:29 Bill Simmons? He kinda does. He does go Wayne for a second. Just want to ask her who gets it. I would go Del Toro personally.
1:50:37 Chris Ryan? Del Toro or Deacons, yeah.
1:50:39 Sean Fennessey? Johan Johansson for the score?
1:50:43 Chris Ryan? I don't know if there is enough music, but it's such a distinctive.
1:50:48 Sean Fennessey? It's very effective.
1:50:51 Bill Simmons? Probably an answerable questions.
1:50:54 Bill Simmons? Is this a better movie if Kate shoots Alejandro in the head? At the end.
1:50:59 Chris Ryan? No.
1:51:00 Sean Fennessey? No.
1:51:00 Chris Ryan? But is it a better movie if the last shot is Alejandro walking away from the apartment building and not going to Mexico one more time? Like, did you think that the soccer game was like a little too?
1:51:10 Bill Simmons? I almost did nitpick for this. I didn't like the soccer game. I thought the quality of the play was low.
1:51:16 Sean Fennessey? Interesting.
1:51:16 Bill Simmons? These kids are in Mexico.
1:51:17 Chris Ryan? Right.
1:51:17 Bill Simmons? They, they start out, they start from the middle, does the kick.
1:51:20 Chris Ryan? Not the best pitch.
1:51:21 Bill Simmons? Fucking defender misses it.
1:51:22 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:51:22 Bill Simmons? Completely. It's like, you guys, it's just the, your national sport. You couldn't have even controlled one pass. You guys are 11 year olds.
1:51:29 Speaker 04 They're playing on dirt.
1:51:31 Chris Ryan? Yeah, so it was probably a little bit.
1:51:32 Bill Simmons? I didn't like the quality of the game. I thought I would have done a second take.
1:51:35 Sean Fennessey? You going to the World Cup?
1:51:37 Bill Simmons? It's very possible I will. Why?
1:51:40 Sean Fennessey? Just curious.
1:51:40 Bill Simmons? Okay.
1:51:41 Sean Fennessey? Are you going?
1:51:42 Chris Ryan? Maybe. We have it.
1:51:45 Sean Fennessey? You think we won't have it?
1:51:46 Bill Simmons? Should I ask the Swedes?
1:51:47 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:51:50 Bill Simmons? Probably, and it's, so you think not a better movie if she shoots Alejandro?
1:51:54 Chris Ryan? No.
1:51:55 Sean Fennessey? I, for the record, I like the ending of, of Mexico, because I do think that the movie is ultimately like, nothing has changed, nothing has been fixed.
1:52:01 Bill Simmons? I like the ending.
1:52:02 Sean Fennessey? I think it's a very strong point, and I, I love that.
1:52:04 Chris Ryan? And these are the real people this is impacting.
1:52:06 Sean Fennessey? And the Haysbert note you point, point you made about heat, where it's like, you have to have these threads in the movie that show other worlds. It can't just be like two trains on a track ready to hit each other, that there's other stuff that is affected by this. I think it's actually a very graceful thing that isn't in the other Sheridan movies that Villeneuve brings to it.
1:52:21 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:52:22 Speaker 04 I mean, weirdly, the only character you really care about in the movie is Silvio and his son. Like, that's the one you actually have the most connection to emotionally.
1:52:28 Chris Ryan? I care about Graver.
1:52:30 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, we know that.
1:52:32 Bill Simmons? Unanswerable questions. Is there a worse Halloween costume than dressing up like the body bags in the wall from Sicario, just showing up at a party?
1:52:39 Chris Ryan? I've never thought about it.
1:52:40 Bill Simmons? Who are you guys? I'm one of the body bags from Sicario. Cool. Want a beer? It's gotta be number one, right? I guess being the little girls from The Shining would be bad?
1:52:52 Chris Ryan? Yeah, that would be pretty tough.
1:52:53 Sean Fennessey? That's a pretty common one. You'll see that on and about, yeah.
1:52:56 Chris Ryan? Burnt to a crisp Gabriel Byrne from, from Red and Terry.
1:53:01 Bill Simmons? Did Kate remarry? Did Kate ever date again? Does the Watanabe Award, what happened the next day? What happened with Kate?
1:53:07 Sean Fennessey? I think maybe she-
1:53:08 Bill Simmons? Let's really talk about the next five years.
1:53:09 Sean Fennessey? I think maybe she and Ted got back together. I think they worked it out. Yeah, they figured it out.
1:53:12 Bill Simmons? Bailed them out?
1:53:12 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:53:12 Chris Ryan? But he's in the kill house at Corcoran. She's visiting him.
1:53:15 Bill Simmons? Did Kate move to a desk job? What do her next two years look like, CR? Lot of, other than a lot of nicotine?
1:53:22 Chris Ryan? That's a, I, I just, I would like to believe that she still believes in the power of law enforcement. So like, you know, maybe she's a cop somewhere.
1:53:30 Sean Fennessey? No, she works in a post office. Come on.
1:53:32 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:53:33 Bill Simmons? Or she's like at a desk job?
1:53:34 Chris Ryan? Selling knitting on Etsy or something?
1:53:36 Sean Fennessey? Yeah. Knitting. Yeah, she knits bras.
1:53:42 Bill Simmons? Unanswerable question. It's the land of wolves. Are you a wolf, CR?
1:53:46 Chris Ryan? I don't think you can answer that about yourself. It's like giving yourself a nickname.
1:53:49 Bill Simmons? Somebody else has to do it.
1:53:50 Chris Ryan? Yeah, you have to, you guys would have to tell me.
1:53:52 Bill Simmons? Do you have any unanswerables?
1:53:54 Sean Fennessey? You got them all.
1:53:55 Bill Simmons? Okay. Anything? What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie?
1:54:03 Chris Ryan? I would want the rubber band from the bankroll and just like leave it on tables and see if you notice.
1:54:09 Bill Simmons? I think it's the burnt all rubber band.
1:54:11 Sean Fennessey? That's what I had too.
1:54:12 Bill Simmons? The fake cocaine bricks in the car when Alejandro kidnaps the cop and there's all those bricks? You could talk me into that.
1:54:20 Chris Ryan? It would be pretty cool if that was my backdrop for this month.
1:54:23 Bill Simmons? Fake cocaine bricks?
1:54:24 Chris Ryan? Keys of cocaine behind me.
1:54:28 Bill Simmons? Coach Finstock, Mr. Miyagi were best words, life lesson. You will doubt everything we do, but in the end you'll understand. I think that's gotta be the answer, right?
1:54:36 Chris Ryan? It's been, it's been how I feel working for you.
1:54:37 Bill Simmons? Thanks. Best double feature choice?
1:54:42 Chris Ryan? Sicario two Soldado, if you want to just keep the Graver and Alejandro train rolling?
1:54:47 Sean Fennessey? I chose Abel Ferrar's King of New York.
1:54:50 Sean Fennessey? Another like vicious movie about the way things are.
1:54:54 Bill Simmons? I have Fast Five.
1:54:56 Chris Ryan? Okay.
1:54:57 Bill Simmons? Brazil.
1:55:00 Bill Simmons? Tunnel. It's, it's the happier entertaining version of Sicario.
1:55:04 Chris Ryan? Oh shit.
1:55:05 Bill Simmons? And I would start with Fast Five and then I would go to Sicario.
1:55:08 Chris Ryan? Where would you be?
1:55:09 Bill Simmons? I would go happy.
1:55:09 Chris Ryan? Triple feature.
1:55:10 Bill Simmons? No, just two.
1:55:11 Chris Ryan? Oh no, double feature. You want to start.
1:55:12 Bill Simmons? Fast Five.
1:55:14 Chris Ryan? Great idea. Yeah. That's good.
1:55:17 Sean Fennessey? And then Furious Six after that? Like?
1:55:18 Bill Simmons? No, just those two. What do you have for double feature?
1:55:22 Chris Ryan? Probably Happy Gilmore.
1:55:24 Sean Fennessey? It's a really funny movie.
1:55:25 Bill Simmons? Who won the movie? I actually think there's an obvious choice for this.
1:55:31 Chris Ryan? I'm gonna make a case for Taylor Sheridan.
1:55:35 Chris Ryan? I don't think I have that written down here. I had Benicio written down, but the more that we talked about it, first of all, sends him on this incredible trajectory where he's arguably one of the most powerful people in entertainment right now.
1:55:48 Bill Simmons? That was who I had and I think it's the obvious winner because he literally won the movie. It jumpstarts an 11 year and counting career that Sean now detests.
1:55:57 Sean Fennessey? Well, I don't, I wouldn't say detest.
1:55:59 Bill Simmons? Nah, you've kind of said.
1:55:59 Chris Ryan? He just thinks it's a, it's a.
1:56:00 Sean Fennessey? I think it's a, it's a waste of skill.
1:56:03 Chris Ryan? Screenwriting talent.
1:56:04 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:56:04 Bill Simmons? Should you do the Chaz Palminteri speech to him? Wasted talent. There's nothing worse than this. It's a wasted talent.
1:56:10 Chris Ryan? Some of his filmmaking experiences like making without remorse and having that get chopped up and stuff. I mean, I think he's probably like, I want control over my scripts.
1:56:19 Sean Fennessey? I totally understand.
1:56:21 Bill Simmons? Is that my camera? Taylor Sheridan, don't stop what you're doing, man. I love your work.
1:56:25 Sean Fennessey? Do you think he listens?
1:56:26 Bill Simmons? No.
1:56:28 Chris Ryan? Do you think he listens to pods?
1:56:30 Bill Simmons? No. He's, you know why? Cause he's writing like 10 pages a day for seven shows.
1:56:34 Sean Fennessey? I had him on the big picture in 2017 for Wind River, but he's the only guest who's ever called in by cellphone.
1:56:40 Chris Ryan? Was he cool?
1:56:40 Bill Simmons? Wow.
1:56:41 Sean Fennessey? Um, he was pretty cool, actually. He did.
1:56:43 Chris Ryan? All the video, when you watch him on the videos for Sicario for the featurettes, he's, he seems a little bit chiller than he does now.
1:56:50 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:56:51 Bill Simmons? That was your only cellphone? I had Alton from The Real World call in once on a cellphone in year one of the BS Report in 07. And at one point he bought cigarettes.
1:57:01 Sean Fennessey? I remember that.
1:57:01 Bill Simmons? He's like, hold on one second. And then he's like, can I get a pack of Camels?
1:57:05 Sean Fennessey? Alton, who is of course, the greatest athlete of the 21st century.
1:57:08 Chris Ryan? Didn't Bueker and Steiny Mo used to call in on cell phones while they were walking around Dallas and stuff?
1:57:12 Bill Simmons? Yeah, that's, that's why we had to eventually stop that combo. Yeah, it wasn't great from a cellphone standpoint.
1:57:17 Chris Ryan? Three man weave, dude.
1:57:19 Sean Fennessey? How do you do a three man weave with a cellphone?
1:57:21 Bill Simmons? That's the thing. That was, we didn't know any better back then.
1:57:24 Chris Ryan? He was Amadeus, dude. He was just conducting it.
1:57:26 Sean Fennessey? I know. He was just figuring it out in real time. Masterful. Those were, those were also, me and CR would text about those pods. Be like, did you hear the three man weave today? Pretty fucking awesome.
1:57:35 Chris Ryan? It would be the three man weaves, Chad Ford.
1:57:39 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:57:39 Chris Ryan? Um, oh god. Obviously Sal. Who were some of the others that I was just like, this is?
1:57:44 Sean Fennessey? Jacko.
1:57:45 Chris Ryan? Jacko.
1:57:46 Sean Fennessey? Jacko elite guest.
1:57:47 Bill Simmons? Jacko had a great run. The Yankees.
1:57:49 Chris Ryan? I remember the first time I heard Lombardi talk about blue chips. I was like, this is blowing my mind. Like, I'd never considered this.
1:57:57 Bill Simmons? Who'd you have for who in the movie?
1:57:59 Sean Fennessey? I wrote an ECO down, but I thought that was a very compelling Taylor Sheridan case.
1:58:01 Bill Simmons? Oh, it's clearly Sheridan. Craig, your thoughts on Sicario?
1:58:05 Speaker 04 I'm surprised no one said Denis, or not even with the just one Oscar that nobody said Denis.
1:58:08 Chris Ryan? I guess, I even feel like we talked about it.
1:58:10 Sean Fennessey? This is the lowest grossing of his Hollywood movies. This is not like a movie that, like, put him on the map. Like, Prisoners put him on the map, and then I think Arrival is where he elevates.
1:58:20 Speaker 04 But what you guys talked about with how much longer the script was, how much they cut out of it, how they kind of changed the perspective.
1:58:26 Chris Ryan? It's not actually that much longer. Like, pretty much all the plot beats and a lot of the dialogue is in this screenplay. They cut lines. So like, a lot of Alejandro's lines were given to Graver, or they get cut from the movie.
1:58:38 Speaker 04 And the opening scene you said is initially of Alejandro killing somebody, right?
1:58:41 Chris Ryan? And it doesn't, doing a voiceover about like-
1:58:42 Speaker 04 And they cut the dream that, I don't know, I feel like-
1:58:45 Chris Ryan? There's even a part-
1:58:46 Speaker 04 Denis tightened the screws on this in a way that makes this borderline a perfect movie, and it takes it from a pretty good movie to a perfect movie.
1:58:52 Chris Ryan? Yeah. Like, a good example is like, at the end of the screenplay, Alejandro actually says the last title card about like, Sicario's where, go back to like, ancient Jerusalem, like, expelling the Romans. He says all that. And it's like, this is really awkward.
1:59:07 Sean Fennessey? Soldato has more of that energy.
1:59:08 Chris Ryan? Yes.
1:59:09 Sean Fennessey? It's a little, you can kind of feel Sheridan's words more in the screenplay. It's a, it's a very good point. I think he was already on the train to becoming who he was gonna become. This movie become, you know, like I said, it's still my favorite, but- I think a lot of people would say Arrival is his best movie. I think the Dune movies are beloved now. He's had a really cool career.
1:59:30 Chris Ryan? I go back and forth between this and Arrival.
1:59:33 Bill Simmons? I don't think this movie is nearly as big as the Dune movies have been for him.
1:59:36 Sean Fennessey? Definitely not, yeah.
1:59:38 Bill Simmons? And especially with 25 and unders, like my son had never seen Sicario and I don't think any of his friends. I, I think it's in that perfect sweet spot of beloved, but not, it's also like you can discover it, which is the best thing about it.
1:59:51 Chris Ryan? Have you, are you a Prisoners fan?
1:59:53 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:59:53 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:59:53 Speaker 04 Also, I was wrong. Thinking back, I did not see this in the theater. Cause I saw, I remember seeing The Martian, did not see this. Watched it on my laptop and I think I was 19 or 20. And I, I remember leaving it kind of underwhelmed because I think I went in thinking it was a, a bigger action movie, fast paced. And it's a little bit slower than that.
2:00:11 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
2:00:12 Speaker 04 Re, upon rewatch last night on the TV blasting the speakers, lights off, this is like the best movie ever made.
2:00:19 Speaker 04 It's so fucking good. Um, I mean, he can make, no one's better at aerial shots right now than.
2:00:24 Chris Ryan? Those shots of Juarez as they're going in.
2:00:25 Bill Simmons? That Affleck is giving up. He's like, I thought I had the helicopter corner for a while.
2:00:29 Speaker 04 You can watch a car on the freeway from above for like a minute.
2:00:32 Chris Ryan? All those shots have, all those shots have ideas too, man.
2:00:36 Speaker 04 Yes.
2:00:36 Chris Ryan? Like so many of those drone shots that people will do now are just transition shots and they'll be like, all right, here's the cityscape and it's like.
2:00:41 Sean Fennessey? It's usually one lonely car on a lonely road going over a forest space, but just giving you, it's not really Chandler, Arizona, but the very beginning of the movie when you see the kind of like pueblo town almost, this like suburban kinda, it's kind of like the, the inlet in, um, in the rip. You know, where it's like, almost like an abandoned suburb that is just exists only to house drug money.
2:01:01 Chris Ryan? Sicario vibes.
2:01:03 Sean Fennessey? It does.
2:01:03 Speaker 04 Yeah.
2:01:04 Chris Ryan? The, uh, the shot, there's a shot on that when they're in the private jet that they've requisitioned to go to the air force base. The shot of like the shadow of the jet, like kind of rippling over the landscape is just fucking crazy, dude.
2:01:17 Speaker 04 Yeah, you hold your breath this entire movie. Also, we didn't do the category of what's the perfect age to see it?
2:01:21 Bill Simmons? I know, I was gonna, I forgot to set you up for it.
2:01:24 Speaker 04 Um, the perfect age to see this movie is not 19. Like.
2:01:29 Speaker 04 Like you just, I, I, you couldn't, you can't grasp the, what they're trying to say. And even now, I'm, it's like, I'm now just being like, oh, this movie means so much more. And you understand the subtext so much more because nothing is very deliberate in this film. It's all kind of something you have to read into. So that also probably played a factor in why I was, as a 20 year old, I was like, pretty good.
2:01:48 Bill Simmons? I forgot to set you up at the top about, it's 200 and.
2:01:51 Speaker 04 It's two hours flat.
2:01:52 Bill Simmons? Two hours flat.
2:01:53 Speaker 04 I was shocked. I would have bet my life this movie was two hours and 25 minutes. It's remarkable, this type of movie is always two hours and 25 minutes now. Remarkable that it's too flat.
2:02:02 Bill Simmons? So was it on the Horlback scale where you think every movie has to be 100 minutes?
2:02:06 Speaker 04 There's almost.
2:02:07 Bill Simmons? Plus 20.
2:02:09 Bill Simmons? There's not a lot to cut out of this movie.
2:02:11 Speaker 04 Well, the only thing you could cut out is the burnt thal stuff, which is probably saves you 10.
2:02:14 Bill Simmons? No, it's essential.
2:02:14 Speaker 04 I like it.
2:02:16 Chris Ryan? It's also like that binds her to Alejandro. It's like almost why she follows him down the tunnels. Cause she's like, I need to know what this guy is about.
2:02:22 Bill Simmons? I don't think there's anything to cut.
2:02:23 Speaker 04 There's kind of two different categories of movie. There's like the 100 minute types of movie. And then there's the two hour kind of movie where I think most two and a half hour dramas now could be two hours. And then there's a lot of comedies and rom coms that are two hours that should be an hour 40.
2:02:37 Bill Simmons? I will say this, if you were forced to cut, the studio is like, we're not releasing unless you cut five minutes. I would cut all the stuff with the, with the cop and the beginning and the end and the soccer.
2:02:46 Chris Ryan? Sylvia.
2:02:47 Bill Simmons? I would just, I just think that would, you need everything else for the plot.
2:02:50 Chris Ryan? Yeah, I don't.
2:02:51 Bill Simmons? That's like a luxury that you could still have mostly the same movie, but I, I really like having it. I just think it's so grounding for the story.
2:02:58 Chris Ryan? Also, it makes the scene, which I don't even, we talked about it when Benicio is sitting in the backseat of Sylvia's car. And take, and making him go to Manuel.
2:03:06 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
2:03:07 Chris Ryan? And he's like, you know, run your lights and tell him to get out of the car.
2:03:11 Bill Simmons? You're a very good police officer.
2:03:12 Chris Ryan? It makes that way more tense because you're like, we've spent this whole movie with this guy.
2:03:14 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Well, that's it for the first round of CR month. We have five movies this month. Next week, we're doing Fargo.
2:03:21 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
2:03:22 Bill Simmons? Week after, just announced we're doing To Live and Die in L.A. Sean's gonna be in, even though he's in like full Oscars thing. We're trying to kill Sean this month. I can do it. I just rewatched it. I'm very excited.
2:03:32 Chris Ryan? We were saying outside, we could probably start To Live and Die in L.A. rewatchables like right now.
2:03:37 Bill Simmons? Like just do it blind? Yeah.
2:03:39 Speaker 04 Do you want to announce the other project?
2:03:42 Bill Simmons? No, cuz I'm not positive that's this month.
2:03:44 Chris Ryan? Okay.
2:03:44 Bill Simmons? We, we're gonna do a sixth thing, but it's either gonna be a mailbag or the mystery project. Then we have two more, which we haven't decided on yet.
2:03:51 Chris Ryan? We're, we're constant negotiations.
2:03:53 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
2:03:53 Chris Ryan? It's, we have the last one.
2:03:55 Bill Simmons? L.A. Confidential is the fifth one.
2:03:57 Chris Ryan? Yes.
2:03:58 Bill Simmons? I guess we didn't announce that one.
2:04:00 Chris Ryan? We just did.
2:04:00 Sean Fennessey? How does it work? Is, is Chris pitching you on the movies? Does he have you?
2:04:03 Bill Simmons? No, well, he, he has, he can ultimately decide.
2:04:06 Chris Ryan? Oh, wow. Thank you. I don't think I've ever gotten you to say that.
2:04:09 Bill Simmons? So the fourth one, well, I still have to prove it.
2:04:14 Chris Ryan? I did not.
2:04:16 Bill Simmons? The fourth one, so the third one, deliver it, does that count as a?
2:04:20 Sean Fennessey? The boundaries haven't, haven't moved.
2:04:20 Bill Simmons? Does that count as a one for us, or do people want that one?
2:04:23 Chris Ryan? People wanted it. People were very pumped out.
2:04:25 Bill Simmons? So we still have a one for us card for the fourth one, potentially?
2:04:28 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
2:04:28 Bill Simmons? Or we could just go nuts.
2:04:30 Chris Ryan? Well, I mean, the streets really want a couple of big titles, but I think we, we, we, we have to hold Hunt for October for October. There's nothing like doing Hunt for October in the fall.
2:04:39 Sean Fennessey? For the Phillies playoff.
2:04:40 Chris Ryan? Yeah, exactly. So we're, we're, we're scouting a couple.
2:04:44 Sean Fennessey? I'm really honored to be a part of this.
2:04:46 Bill Simmons? C R month?
2:04:47 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
2:04:47 Bill Simmons? Well, every, every month of your life has been C R month since like 2006.
2:04:52 Sean Fennessey? And what a joy, and the gift that keeps on giving.
2:04:54 Bill Simmons? Greenwald said it's been C R month for him since 1996.
2:04:56 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
2:04:57 Bill Simmons? Yeah. So we're getting Greenwald for the last one.
2:04:59 Sean Fennessey? You know, the universal approval rating, like that's, that's, it should be his other nickname.
2:05:03 Chris Ryan? It's right before the fall.
2:05:04 Bill Simmons? Well, we're gonna do.
2:05:05 Chris Ryan? I peek here and then everything goes downhill.
2:05:07 Sean Fennessey? But I'm getting you redacted, unredacted out of Epstein. So now it's all gonna come, come to light.
2:05:12 Chris Ryan? And it's just Epstein being like, this guy C R loves Heat.
2:05:14 Sean Fennessey? Chris, Chris wrote that scene in Sicario where Alejandro sexually assaults him, you know?
2:05:20 Bill Simmons? Well, we have Heat in the background.
2:05:24 Bill Simmons? What language is that?
2:05:25 Chris Ryan? It's Spanish, dude. Didn't you, didn't you take Spanish?
2:05:31 Sean Fennessey? Un epico de crimen y obsesión.
2:05:34 Bill Simmons? That could be a bunch of languages. I don't know.
2:05:36 Chris Ryan? We're, we're.
2:05:36 Bill Simmons? You can tell me that's Italian.
2:05:38 Sean Fennessey? It's like Spanish to me.
2:05:38 Chris Ryan? I think it's Spanish.
2:05:39 Bill Simmons? I think it's probably Spanish.
2:05:40 Sean Fennessey? The highest, I think, to give away.
2:05:42 Bill Simmons? We're not doing Heat.
2:05:43 Chris Ryan? Way to go, Guillermo.
2:05:44 Bill Simmons? We're not doing Hunt of Red October.
2:05:46 Chris Ryan? No.
2:05:47 Bill Simmons? And we're, we're. And we're not doing Aliens.
2:05:48 Chris Ryan? We're not doing Aliens.
2:05:49 Sean Fennessey? Is Heat's?
2:05:50 Bill Simmons? Because we're gonna do Aliens this summer.
2:05:51 Chris Ryan? Yes.
2:05:52 Bill Simmons? Because it's the anniversary.
2:05:53 Chris Ryan? Yes.
2:05:54 Sean Fennessey? Okay, okay. So no Hunt for October, no Aliens, no Five.
2:05:57 Bill Simmons? We're crossing those off. And the fourth one is gonna be one for us-ish.
2:06:01 Chris Ryan? But we don't, but, but people have asked for the revise, but I think we're gonna hold on to that.
2:06:07 Bill Simmons? No, because I think we, yeah, we're gonna hold on to that one.
2:06:11 Chris Ryan? In case Jamie Foxx wants to do it.
2:06:13 Sean Fennessey? Is Ted Sarandos watching right now, do you think?
2:06:15 Bill Simmons? Probably not.
2:06:17 Bill Simmons? He probably can't believe he just got $2.8 billion to back out of a deal.
2:06:23 Chris Ryan? He's like, you're telling me I get $2.8 billion and these three guys? Yes!
2:06:29 Sean Fennessey? Is Heat's tagline, "Epic of Crime and Obsession"? Does it say that on the American poster?
2:06:34 Chris Ryan? It's an L.A. crime saga, is the tagline.
2:06:36 Sean Fennessey? Interesting.
2:06:37 Bill Simmons? There you go. All right, thanks to Craig Royalback, thanks to Gahow and Eduardo as well. Thanks to Jack Wilson, everybody behind the scenes. It was very fun doing a Netflix Live.
2:06:45 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
2:06:46 Bill Simmons? We had no real-
2:06:47 Chris Ryan? Thanks to your gardener.
2:06:48 Bill Simmons? Yeah, thanks. You almost ruined the beginning of the pod. And we'll see you next week with Fargo on C.R.M. Thanks for watching.
2:07:07 Speaker 03 This is U.S. Bank's Cozy Cash Formations with your chief financial playmaker, Fernando Mendoza.
2:07:14 Speaker 09 You are worthy of financial security. Budgeting is not restriction, it's freedom. You are smart, you are capable, you are giving your money a purpose. You are learning the language of saving, of growing, now streaming. Member FDIC, copyright 2026 U.S. Bank.
2:07:38 Bill Simmons? This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. Fall is here and Whole Foods Market has everything you need for cozy meals, seasonal treats, and easy entertaining. Elevate your hearty dishes with tasty bone-in beef short ribs or New York strip steaks with no added growth hormones or antibiotics. And as the fall evenings draw in, why not get ahead of cold season with immunity shots, herbal teas, lasages, and supplements? Make sure you look for sales throughout the month. Shop fall flavors with higher standards at Whole Foods Market.
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