‘After Hours’ with Bill Simmons and Sean Fennessey

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Sean Fennessey really want to see a Plaster of that Paris bagel and cream cheese paperweight before rewatching Martin Scorsese’s 1985 neo-noir black comedy film, ‘After Hours’ starring Griffin Dunne and Rosanna Arquette. Producers: Jack Sanders and Ronak Nair Book your next business trip at holidayinn.com This episode is sponsored by State Farm®. A State Farm agent can help you choose the coverage you need. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.® Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by Viori. All right, let's talk about a category we appreciate. Clothes that stay in the rotation. Viori earned that spot. Their core shorts are good for workouts, travel day, weekend, whatever. And the Strato Tech T ridiculously soft. It's the kind of gear you keep reaching for because it's comfortable while still looking put together. Get 20% off your first purchase at Viori.com/rewatchables and discover the versatility of Viori clothing. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. The Rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. Find the big picture with Sean Finacy.

• 0:37Sean Fennessey?

  That is right.

• 0:38Bill Simmons?

  If you had been left out of New York Month, I think, I think people would have felt like we were feuding.

• 0:43Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I gotta tell you.

• 0:44Bill Simmons?

  I'm already feuding with Kendrick Perkins, apparently. So I don't know if I could have added you to the list.

• 0:48Sean Fennessey?

  Um, I would be in great company if I could join Perk in the feud, but I'm very grateful to be invited here. It did cross my mind when you, I'm usually like pretty chill about like, Bill's gonna do whatever he wants to do with Rewatchables. I love being on the show whenever, but when you announced New York Month.

• 1:03Bill Simmons?

  But it was, we announced it two films in. It was like kind of belatedly became New York Month.

• 1:08Sean Fennessey?

  You know what it was? It wasn't even, am I gonna be on an episode? It was, is a New Yorker gonna be on an episode? That's, I was like, is John G. Strachey gonna be here?

• 1:17Bill Simmons?

  Did we not have a New Yorker or anything?

• 1:19Sean Fennessey?

  No, it's Van, CR.

• 1:22Bill Simmons?

  I guess Kyle Brand lives there.

• 1:23Sean Fennessey?

  Kyle, Kyle Brand lived there. Chris did live there for a time, but native New Yorker. We don't have as many at The Ringer as you would think.

• 1:30Bill Simmons?

  I know, but that's intentional because I have final say in a lot of this stuff.

• 1:34Sean Fennessey?

  I'm happy to be here regardless.

• 1:35Bill Simmons?

  Rewatchables, you can find on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel, and you can find it as a video podcast on Spotify. We're videotaping this right now. The last episode of New York City Month, NYC Month, New York Month? What did, what did we settle on for a title?

• 1:48Sean Fennessey?

  Big Apple Broadcasting. Let's go.

• 1:50Bill Simmons?

  There you go. We had to do this one. Martin Scorsese, after hours, right after this.

• 1:58Speaker 02

  That's him. There's never been a comedy quite like After Hours. Raves People Magazine. A racy raucous ride through the night. Bound to leave audiences reeling with laughter. Newsweek says, what a pleasure it is to watch Scorsese cook. He's masterful. His images sparkle. And the Village Voice calls it funny, original, and audacious. After Hours.

• 2:21Speaker 03

  I'm glad you came.

• 2:23Speaker 02

  Rated R.

• 2:24Speaker 04

  Now at select theaters. Coming soon to additional locations.

• 2:27Bill Simmons?

  This episode of the Rewatchable is presented by Holiday Inn by IHG. It's a new day for a new stay at Holiday Inn for business travelers. Do you count as a business traveler, Sean?

• 2:36Sean Fennessey?

  Sure, sometimes.

• 2:36Bill Simmons?

  Okay. With modern spaces for meeting and working, plus delicious dining for breakfast happy hour. Do you eat breakfast, Sean?

• 2:42Sean Fennessey?

  I do. I had an apple and a breakfast bar this morning.

• 2:45Bill Simmons?

  Oh, interesting. I don't need any breakfast. But I do love happy hour and dinner. They have that, too. Give everything you need to get your work done. Give your everyday business travel an upgrade. Book your next business trip at Holiday Inn by IHG. Visit holidayinn.com to book your stay.

• 3:14Bill Simmons?

  All right. After Hours, cult classic.

• 3:18Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:18Bill Simmons?

  When they talk about the cult classics in whatever the movies that get listed, and it could be five, 10, 15, 20, this one will always get thrown into the paragraph.

• 3:26Sean Fennessey?

  It's usually pretty high on the list.

• 3:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 3:28Sean Fennessey?

  There's a variety of reasons for that.

• 3:30Bill Simmons?

  Is it a New York movie or a Scorsese movie? If you had to pick one?

• 3:34Sean Fennessey?

  I'll just spoil right now that this is in my top five favorite Scorsese movies of all time. So for me, it's a Scorsese movie. But part of that is because the New York that's in this movie is not a New York I ever experienced. I'm too young to have been in the dirtbag central that was Howard Street in 1985. So I don't even, it doesn't even look as much. It looks like a place that still looks that way, but it doesn't feel that way anymore. So it's more of a time capsule. And for me, it's Scorsese style all over the place.

• 4:02Bill Simmons?

  It's so funny watching this. And just seeing all the seeds of Goodfellas and all these little edits and camera shots.

• 4:09Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 4:10Bill Simmons?

  You're like, oh, he saved that for later, for five years after. So I am barely old enough to remember this version of New York City.

• 4:17Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 4:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 4:18Sean Fennessey?

  Did you go to Manhattan when you were a kid?

• 4:20Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, so when I was in high school, and then right after, my buddy Jim Grady, his mom got a place in New York City.

• 4:26Sean Fennessey?

  Hmm.

• 4:27Bill Simmons?

  And we started, if she wasn't there, we started going, yeah, we're gonna stay in your place. And you can imagine what ensued. We would go out. So it was like, probably late eighties, early nineties.

• 4:37Sean Fennessey?

  Okay. You mixing it up at the Berlin Club? What were you doing?

• 4:39Bill Simmons?

  We were just kinda going out and trying to get into places with fake IDs. But there was a couple nights that we had, that the reason this movie is so great is everybody has these New York City nights. But in that, there was one night, we ended up in the Meat District, and I honestly thought I was gonna die. It was like three in the morning, we're at some party, we got lost leaving, we didn't know where we were going. And it was exactly like the New York in this movie, where it's just, it's empty, it's scary. You don't know how to get anywhere, there's no cabs, and you're just like, it becomes escape from New York.

• 5:11Sean Fennessey?

  It's so funny too, because me packing that area that you're talking about in particular is one of those parts of the city now that is defined by hamburgers costing $57 in restaurants? And not by, am I about to be knifed? Am I going to encounter an incredible sculptress who will show me, you know, the ways of downtown New York? Like, the energies are just so changed. It's so, the city is very corporate now, it's very kind of polished and shiny.

• 5:36Bill Simmons?

  Well, I mean, think of Soho.

• 5:38Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's where it is.

• 5:40Bill Simmons?

  Soho in this movie versus the Soho now, it's not, there's no relation.

• 5:44Sean Fennessey?

  It's like a corporate epicenter now, and in this movie, it's just, it's a freewheeling thing. And that's a great part of the idea of the movie, which is it's a movie about somebody from the square world that Soho now looks like, but is more uptown. And what happens when an uptown square guy, a yuppie guy, enters the world of the artist, the world of the drug user, the world of the rebel, the world of the untamed? And what happens when he gets inside of that space? And what does it do to him? What does it make, how does it make him feel? So, such a cool idea for a movie and a way to kind of platform this very particular time in the city's history.

• 6:19Bill Simmons?

  There's only two cities in America that when you landed them and you're trying to navigate them, just seemed completely overwhelming. The other one is Los Angeles.

• 6:28Sean Fennessey?

  For the opposite reason, though.

• 6:29Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 6:30Sean Fennessey?

  Where like you don't know, in LA you don't-

• 6:32Bill Simmons?

  You don't know where stuff begins and ends.

• 6:33Sean Fennessey?

  You can't walk anywhere.

• 6:34Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 6:34Sean Fennessey?

  You know, at least you get this grid-like experience in New York where it's like all the streets are numbered.

• 6:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 6:39Sean Fennessey?

  You're moving up and down or east to west and you can always kind of feel like-

• 6:43Bill Simmons?

  There's water both ways.

• 6:44Sean Fennessey?

  Yes. You know, when you've hit the end of any side?

• 6:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 6:47Sean Fennessey?

  It's a little different if you're in Brooklyn or the Bronx or Queens. It's way more confusing. In LA, I've got my sister in town and we're just driving around the city and it's like, there's no way to make any logical sense of it experientially. At least here, and this is part of my picking nits too, so I'll wait for that. But New York is like very conquerable.

• 7:03Bill Simmons?

  True.

• 7:04Sean Fennessey?

  You know, like-

• 7:04Bill Simmons?

  Once you, once you understand it, but there's so many different pockets.

• 7:08Sean Fennessey?

  True.

• 7:08Bill Simmons?

  I didn't really fully understand that until the late 90s. I just didn't, I didn't understand where anything was in relation to anything else. Like people were like, oh, they, they, uh, they're from Brooklyn. I'm like, I don't know where that is. I don't know where that is compared to this. And eventually in your head, the map kind of settles. We also had no nav systems until the 2000s.

• 7:27Sean Fennessey?

  So the thing that I did for years when I lived in the city was, anytime I'd be on the subway, I'd just look at the subway map. And I would just study the subway map like it was a test. And I would try to learn it as best I can. And then something really interesting happened to me in 2004, which is that the city experienced an MTA strike. So there were no subway trains running at all in New York City. So everyone walked to work.

• 7:47Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 7:48Sean Fennessey?

  So I walked down every day, I want to say it was 3rd Avenue, and I walked with-

• 7:53Bill Simmons?

  Was this when you were working at Vivid Video?

• 7:55Sean Fennessey?

  It was, it was pre-vivid.

• 7:56Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 7:56Sean Fennessey?

  Um, it was before I unsheathed the weapons. Uh, no, it was, I think I was working at Complex magazine and I walked, we lived on 96th and 3rd.

• 8:05Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 8:06Sean Fennessey?

  And I walked every day to 42nd and 6th.

• 8:08Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 8:09Sean Fennessey?

  For like, whatever, however long that strike ended, like six weeks, maybe?

• 8:12Bill Simmons?

  It took a 45 minute walk.

• 8:13Sean Fennessey?

  It was a long walk.

• 8:13Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 8:14Sean Fennessey?

  But when you're out walking and there's no other way to get around, then you're like, let's walk downtown and go to a restaurant. Let's walk over the bridge and see what we can get, what trouble we can get into in Brooklyn. And then that just becomes like a little bit more comfortable where you know, on foot where you're headed at all times. Whereas Paul Hackett in this movie- He doesn't even come downtown. He, as soon as he gets downtown, he's lost. Which is an interesting thing about the city is like, if you're afraid of it.

• 8:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 8:39Sean Fennessey?

  It can eat you up. And that's kind of what happens to him in the movie.

• 8:42Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I never got a handle on it. I started going back a lot for ESPN in the 2000s. And the, the ho, the corporate hotels would always be in different spots that we stayed at. So sometimes it would be like Trump Plaza and Central Park. Other times it was way down toward, you know, Soho or Battery Park.

• 8:57Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 8:57Bill Simmons?

  And then eventually the city like fell into place of my head, but it's.

• 9:01Sean Fennessey?

  When you were an adult, though, would you have nights where you guys would go out to dinner after work? And then have a couple of drinks and then find yourself wandering until four o'clock in the morning?

• 9:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, where you're just in a cab and it's like, we should go this place, this place where my buddy works here. And you're just, but the cabs, I always appreciated the cabs thing versus what it's like out here. Cause the, the difference in LA since even like before I moved here. Like if you watch swingers and everybody's in their cars and they have like multiple scenes where the five guys are driving in their cars. Now like Uber, Lyft LA is a little different, I think.

• 9:33Sean Fennessey?

  It is, that shift happened exactly when I moved here to work for you. It was almost exactly in 2012 when you could feel Uber really like arriving in the city. And so the designated driver is an idea kind of went out the window. Like last night we went out and I didn't have a drop of alcohol. Cause I was driving around the city, wherever we went, every spot that we dropped, stopped into. So it's a, it's a big change. In New York, you can get ripped shit at 8pm and be out for another eight hours. Like it's just a totally different experience.

• 10:01Bill Simmons?

  Well, so let's talk the New York piece first and then we'll talk about Scorsese. Cause so Griffin Dunn was talking about, um, who's the star of the movie? And he's talking about, this is, there's an oral history about the, about the movie that's good. But he says, "The events of after hours were not dissimilar from my life at that time. I would make immediate connections with total strangers and end up in places that it might not have been a good idea to be in. That's why young people came to New York to have experiences that were terrifying, exhilarating, sexy and dangerous." So that's like seventies, first half of the eighties, New York. That we love, it's been very romanticized. It's been in a lot of good TV shows and movies and.

• 10:42Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, in the time of Sidney Lumet, you know, the Serpico, New York, the hard bitten city. It's a little dangerous, but a little exciting.

• 10:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, so there's been like the dangerous genre movies. There's been like the super fun New York's alive kind of movies. But you also have Saturday lives there and you have this crazy disco scene and punk music and just everything's happening. And it just seems like a really exciting place. But then you could have nights like this where you meet, you meet a girl and you end up and you don't know where you are. And it just feels like you've entered this alternate universe, which is one of the best things about this movie. It's just fucking weird the entire time.

• 11:17Sean Fennessey?

  It's a, it's a, it's a dark side of the yellow brick road kind of a movie. And literally he's walking down brick roads in this neighborhood. And it is like very much a Wizard of Oz kind of homage. And it's like if Dorothy instead walked into the black and white darkness rather than the color that she walks into when she enters Oz. That's the idea you're supposed to have. Seems like he's gonna have one of the most fun nights of his life. He's picked up a hot girl in the diner.

• 11:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 11:39Sean Fennessey?

  And he's gonna have fun and he's gonna explore the downtown scene. He's gonna meet a hot sculptor and he's gonna experience a certain kind of culture that's a little far away from him. And then it goes bad.

• 11:49Bill Simmons?

  And then it goes worse.

• 11:50Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 11:51Bill Simmons?

  So the cocainey screwball paranoia era, can we call it?

• 11:54Sean Fennessey?

  Sure.

• 11:55Bill Simmons?

  After hours into the night, desperately seeking Susan, something wild, there's something.

• 12:00Sean Fennessey?

  Those first three are all 1985.

• 12:02Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 12:02Sean Fennessey?

  Which is so interesting that like you can feel all the creative people are all kind of feeling the same way about what it's like to go out at that stage of their lives, which is so interesting.

• 12:11Bill Simmons?

  Well, it's either people who are on cocaine or people who had just quit cocaine. Or people who had been around a lot of cocaine. There's like an energy to these movies that I think would just be weird now.

• 12:21Sean Fennessey?

  I totally agree. And these people were entrusted with millions of dollars to make these movies.

• 12:26Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 12:27Sean Fennessey?

  Like Scorsese, it seems like he's in the aftermath of his craziest era.

• 12:31Bill Simmons?

  Talk about that, yeah.

• 12:32Sean Fennessey?

  You know, like he's not at the peak of the mania of him using when he's making this movie. It feels like he's channeling.

• 12:38Bill Simmons?

  But he lived it for years.

• 12:41Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, yes.

• 12:42Bill Simmons?

  And then it seems like some of the people that are in this movie are in the middle of it. Like Griffin Dunn's pretty open about it.

• 12:47Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 12:47Bill Simmons?

  That John Heard, who plays the bartender, and they were like, it's perfect casting because in real life, this guy was just taking it down all over town.

• 12:55Sean Fennessey?

  Well, think about just the production of the movie is they just had to be up all night, every night.

• 12:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 13:00Sean Fennessey?

  The movie was only shot at night.

• 13:00Bill Simmons?

  Five to five.

• 13:01Sean Fennessey?

  So you gotta be up five to five. What's the best way to stay up in those off hours, you know?

• 13:04Bill Simmons?

  I can't even imagine.

• 13:07Bill Simmons?

  It was also a polarizing movie. Pauline Kael hated it.

• 13:10Sean Fennessey?

  Shocking.

• 13:12Bill Simmons?

  I think she just lost her way in the mid eighties.

• 13:14Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 13:15Bill Simmons?

  That's the recurring theme.

• 13:16Sean Fennessey?

  She got cynical, she got bitter.

• 13:17Bill Simmons?

  She really did.

• 13:18Sean Fennessey?

  The pieces are still really so well-written, but she doesn't really have her finger on the pulse anymore.

• 13:23Bill Simmons?

  The critics did not like it, which I thought was fascinating, but there's a Scorsese piece of this, though. We've just got to do the deep dive.

• 13:32Sean Fennessey?

  I reread a part of Martin Scorsese, A Journey, this week, which-

• 13:36Bill Simmons?

  I reread the Biskin book for all the Scorsese parts.

• 13:39Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 13:39Bill Simmons?

  I read a couple other things. Yeah, I mean, it's all documented, it's all out there.

• 13:43Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 13:45Bill Simmons?

  Basically breaks down from cocaine in 1978.

• 13:48Sean Fennessey?

  Yep.

• 13:49Bill Simmons?

  After he's done New York, New York, which bombs.

• 13:51Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 13:52Bill Simmons?

  And is gonna die. His body's just full of blood and poison. And they're basically like, we don't know how you're not dead yet, but you have to cut all this cold turkey.

• 14:01Sean Fennessey?

  Famously asthmatic, already not, you know?

• 14:03Bill Simmons?

  He's just dying.

• 14:04Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 14:04Bill Simmons?

  All his friends are like, you're gonna die, what are you doing? And then ends up making Raging Bull with De Niro. Which he feels like is a massive failure because it doesn't do well, and then it doesn't win the best film Oscar.

• 14:15Sean Fennessey?

  Correct.

• 14:16Bill Simmons?

  And yet it wasn't a massive failure because then, as the years pass, everyone thinks it's one of the best movies of the eighties. Plus, De Niro wins Best Actor.

• 14:23Sean Fennessey?

  It was acclaimed at the time, too, you know?

• 14:25Bill Simmons?

  But he, for some reason, felt like he failed and-

• 14:28Sean Fennessey?

  It was not a huge box office success. It kind of had like a real kind of middling reception, but it was, I mean, it was nominated for eight Oscars, Raging Bull.

• 14:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 14:38Sean Fennessey?

  And it remains a masterpiece, hard movie to watch, but a masterpiece.

• 14:41Bill Simmons?

  I don't really fully understand it, but his cohorts, which we've talked about before on this- Lucas is now a mega star. Spielberg is about to be a mega star again with ET and Raiders and everything Poltergeist, everything that's happened with him.

• 14:56Sean Fennessey?

  Well, think about, we did Close Encounters and Star Wars recently, both in 77, and his movie in 77 is New York, New York, famous bomb. And then he's kind of spiraling there, so.

• 15:05Bill Simmons?

  It's those two, it's De Palma, it's a whole bunch of people, but two of the guys are ascending. And then him and Coppola, Coppola has One From The Heart in 82.

• 15:14Sean Fennessey?

  Similar disaster.

• 15:15Bill Simmons?

  And bankrupts his studio.

• 15:16Sean Fennessey?

  Yep.

• 15:17Bill Simmons?

  Scorsese feels like he can't buy a break. He's trying to get Last Temptation of Christ done, nobody will do it. And.

• 15:24Sean Fennessey?

  Well, it's a, it's a great story about what happens with it. Because it's, it's about to happen. I mean, he, it's this, this famous novel written about the sort of humanity of Christ, which is like, what if Christ was actually a person who was susceptible to lust, human desire, a, a, a decision to maybe go against the path of God that is, that we all understand. We just accept that Christ is this like perfectly moral figure. And this novel kind of reckons with this idea and Scorsese, almost all of his movies are about faith and redemption. He's obsessed, he's a Catholic. And he's like a dyed-in-the-wool Catholic, but he's like, I'm a flawed person, we're all flawed people. It's his dream to make a movie about Christ as a flawed person and explore what that means. And he's trying to get it made at Paramount. He's trying to shoot it in Israel, in the Holy Land.

• 16:09Bill Simmons?

  And Paramount's like, what about aliens?

• 16:11Sean Fennessey?

  Literally, they're like, why would we spend $10 million? And there starts to be a letter writing campaign from one of the Catholic leagues. And they get 500 letters a day. Do not let Martin Scorsese make a movie about Christ, and not this novel for sure.

• 16:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 16:23Sean Fennessey?

  And they buckle and they cancel the movie. He was gonna make the movie. He had a budget, he had a cast. I think at the time it was Aiden Quinn was going to play Jesus Christ.

• 16:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 16:35Sean Fennessey?

  Um, De Niro did not want to play Christ.

• 16:37Bill Simmons?

  Smart.

• 16:38Sean Fennessey?

  I'm doing this because we'll never do The Last Temptation of Christ on the Rewatchables, I assume.

• 16:42Bill Simmons?

  I really like the soundtrack.

• 16:43Sean Fennessey?

  It is a good soundtrack.

• 16:44Bill Simmons?

  It's, I was really cranking it in the late eighties. Peter Gabriel?

• 16:48Sean Fennessey?

  It is Peter Gabriel.

• 16:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 16:49Sean Fennessey?

  So Aiden Quinn is Christ, Harvey Keitel is Judas.

• 16:53Bill Simmons?

  Do you want to do Last Temptation of Christ?

• 16:55Sean Fennessey?

  I think Stan is Punches pilot.

• 16:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's fucking, I don't even think they showed on TV anymore.

• 17:00Sean Fennessey?

  But the version that eventually got made, which is like seven or eight years later, is Willem Dafoe plays Christ.

• 17:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 17:07Sean Fennessey?

  But the version that they were gonna do is, it's just, it's a massive, it is one of the massive sliding doors in movie history because him not making it leads to him making this movie and a couple of other movies that are really interesting. And I will posit, this is not even my hot take, but I will posit, I don't know if Goodfellas happens.

• 17:26Bill Simmons?

  I think.

• 17:26Sean Fennessey?

  If this movie doesn't happen.

• 17:28Bill Simmons?

  You're a hundred percent right.

• 17:29Sean Fennessey?

  So it's kind of good that it got, that movie got canceled, even though it was so heartbreaking for him and he needed to retreat so bad. He felt like he was as low as he'd ever been after they canceled.

• 17:36Bill Simmons?

  Well, and we didn't mention King of Comedy, which bombs.

• 17:39Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 17:39Bill Simmons?

  And he does that as a favorite in Zedaro.

• 17:41Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 17:42Bill Simmons?

  That movie bombs. He can't get Last Temptation of Christ done. And he just feels like, I've blown my shot. I'm going to be the promising director that people talk about 40 years from now, and I fucked it up. And.

• 17:55Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, which is interesting too, because he had already made Mean Streets, Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, Raging Bull. Like, he'd already done enough to be.

• 18:02Bill Simmons?

  I know, but his friends are making billion dollar movies.

• 18:04Sean Fennessey?

  You're right. You're right.

• 18:05Bill Simmons?

  So Biskin said he met with Fox about King of Comedy and why they didn't support it.

• 18:12Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 18:13Bill Simmons?

  This is Scorsese's quote. "They explained that it didn't pay for them to support King of Comedy any further at the box office, so after a month they're gonna pull it. The same thing happened that year at Fox with Robert Altman's health. They didn't even release the film. Altman didn't do another studio picture for like 10 years. I realized at that point, nobody cared. And that was when I really understood that the 70s were over for me, that the directors, the ones with the personal voices, had lost. The studios got the power back. Today you look at an ad, you don't even know who directed a picture." We were talking about this with the Star Wars pod. This is kind of the culmination for him realizing like, we're fucked. Coppola went the other way and he's like, we don't need the studios. I'll pay for everything myself. And it's like, yeah, you just went bankrupt.

• 18:57Bill Simmons?

  This is why we need the studios, because they're taking a bunch of different bets. Some work, some don't.

• 19:01Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 19:01Bill Simmons?

  If you're just like doing a studio where you're making all the bets yourself, good luck.

• 19:06Sean Fennessey?

  Coppola is still convinced, though, that this is the right way. This is how he did Megalopolis. And there are some guys who think to be independent is better. And then there are some people who do the devil's bargain of working with the big company so that they can get the thing that they want. But Scorsese was right. This was the era of Die Hard and Lethal Weapon.

• 19:22Bill Simmons?

  It was coming, yeah.

• 19:23Sean Fennessey?

  And Simpson and Bruckheimer. And that's where everything was flash dance. Like, that's where Hollywood was going. And the Hollywood that he had so much success in.

• 19:30Bill Simmons?

  I wonder what made him, because when he's making this, that's all just starting. It's like, that's 85 is First Blood.

• 19:36Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm.

• 19:37Bill Simmons?

  Two.

• 19:37Sean Fennessey?

  Yep.

• 19:38Bill Simmons?

  Rambo first, whatever it was called.

• 19:39Sean Fennessey?

  The Rambo advert, yeah.

• 19:40Bill Simmons?

  Beverly Hills Cop hits.

• 19:41Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm.

• 19:42Bill Simmons?

  Um, all the Schwarzenegger stuff starting.

• 19:44Sean Fennessey?

  Yep.

• 19:45Bill Simmons?

  Back to the Future, then they sign up two sequels for that. And something's shifting and he's seeing it and he's like, this is bad for me.

• 19:51Sean Fennessey?

  There's a flip side to that coin that we don't talk about as much on the show, which is that-

• 19:55Bill Simmons?

  That I love all those movies?

• 19:56Sean Fennessey?

  Well, those movies are good. It's not that. It's that there is still a kind of, um, autourist Hollywood, but it's very respectable and stuffy. Like, the movie that won Best Picture in 1985 is Out of Africa.

• 20:08Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 20:08Sean Fennessey?

  So there is still a version of movie making that is important and culturally meaningful, quote unquote, but it's not cool and it's not exciting and audacious the way that the new Hollywood guys were. Like, the movies that are nominated that year, Color Purple, Kiss of the Spider Woman, Pritzy's Honor by John Huston, and Witness. Peter Weir's a great filmmaker. John Huston's a great filmmaker. Those are not like the most audacious movies of their careers. So that crew of guys have either become blockbuster filmmakers, or they're starting to kind of get left behind a little bit.

• 20:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 20:39Sean Fennessey?

  And so that's, I'm sure, what he was feeling.

• 20:41Bill Simmons?

  It felt like, it felt like this in the time. And then even as we look back, when we do all these older ones, like that first half of the eighties especially, there was a certain, like, Oscars had a type.

• 20:52Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm.

• 20:53Bill Simmons?

  And it was like, oh, it's big, lavish, and there's a cool trailer.

• 20:56Sean Fennessey?

  True story, yeah.

• 20:56Bill Simmons?

  It's based on something, there's a really cool theme song, and that's just kind of what worked.

• 21:02Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 21:02Bill Simmons?

  And the stuff Scorsese was doing, I think, for, when he lost Raging Bull to Ordinary People, when he lost the best film, and he was like devastated.

• 21:12Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm.

• 21:14Bill Simmons?

  But like, we did Ordinary People, that movie was really good.

• 21:17Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 21:17Bill Simmons?

  I don't, I, I see it.

• 21:19Sean Fennessey?

  It's better than Out of Africa.

• 21:20Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, there's been some other Oscar ones where we're like, oh my god, wow, how did that happen? I don't know if that's one of those for me.

• 21:26Sean Fennessey?

  We just talked about this with Gandhi too. What did Gandhi beat famously? Something else that was just like so clearly the superior film in our opinion. It was ET.

• 21:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 21:35Sean Fennessey?

  Um, so, you know, there's, there's.

• 21:37Bill Simmons?

  But that's, the Oscars had a type. And then as, as we kind of moved into the nineties, that flipped. But, so anyway, he needs a job.

• 21:45Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:47Bill Simmons?

  He said, I thought it'd be interesting to see if I could go back and do something in a very fast way, all style and exercise completely in style. And I think this is why I love this movie. And it's so weird. And I have a complicated relationship with this movie because I don't really enjoy it that much as an experience because it's so stressful.

• 22:05Sean Fennessey?

  It's very stressful.

• 22:06Bill Simmons?

  But it's so artfully done and it's so weird that it's just kind of riveting. But it's a weird one. It's not like one of those where you'd be like, say to your wife, like, let's, Friday night, let's bang out after hours. This is just in this weird area over here.

• 22:22Sean Fennessey?

  It's funny that you say that because my wife does love this movie. This is one of her favorites because it's not that violent. So like, obviously I watch a lot of Scorsese movies at home and most of his movies are defined by the relationship to violence. This movie has some violence, but it's kind of jokey. It's really just about a guy who keeps getting stuck and screwed.

• 22:39Bill Simmons?

  It just keeps getting worse, yeah.

• 22:40Sean Fennessey?

  More stressed and more stressed as time goes by. So it, for me, it is an all-time personal favorite. I'm really just stoked that we're even talking about it right now because, you know, I have, I have, I have some anxiety, you know? I've, I've certainly felt like this is a good representation of a certain kind of a guy. Who wants to have fun, but maybe doesn't realize what it means to try to have fun. Like, it's a very representative movie. It's also like, it's loaded with ideas. Like, the whole movie is like a castration examination of every time a guy gets close to a woman.

• 23:14Bill Simmons?

  Something bad happened.

• 23:15Sean Fennessey?

  Wants to sleep with her, but it's like a little bit dangerous and you know, the sort of fear and desire that goes into being a man at this time in history and the movie is populated by all these beautiful women and the sense of like a guy who doesn't know how to really engage with any of them, even though he thinks he does. So for all those reasons, it's a lot of fun, but the style thing that you pointed out is the number one reason, because this is him making a big shift and he kind of has stayed in this style of movie ever since. He'll have the occasional, like he made Kundo and he made The Last Temptation of Christ. He makes some movies that are silenced. His religious movies are slower paced and more painterly, I would say. Age of Innocence is, but this movie cuts fast, the camera moves fast.

• 23:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 23:59Sean Fennessey?

  It's rock and roll energy. And you said, like, the way that Goodfellas looks and feels, it starts right here and it starts because of Michael Ballhaus.

• 24:08Bill Simmons?

  Close ups of a clock.

• 24:09Sean Fennessey?

  Yes. You know, there's that famous shot in this movie where the camera like whips in on Marcy right before she walks out the door and winks at Griffin Dunn and you're like, that's Goodfellas.

• 24:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 24:19Sean Fennessey?

  It's not, nobody has a gun in their hand, but it's that feeling of like-

• 24:22Bill Simmons?

  Or a key going in the door, close up of the key, boom.

• 24:25Sean Fennessey?

  And that film is-

• 24:25Bill Simmons?

  Jump cut him walking up the stairs.

• 24:27Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, exactly.

• 24:28Bill Simmons?

  There's so many tricks.

• 24:29Sean Fennessey?

  So that energy is so, it's just so fun to watch a movie that feels like that.

• 24:32Bill Simmons?

  I think it's, he's one of the only directors, you know, we always talked about with writers, if you could cover the byline of a piece you're writing and know who the writer is, then that writer, you know, the writer's doing something right. Be like, oh, I know who that is.

• 24:47Sean Fennessey?

  You were one of those guys.

• 24:48Bill Simmons?

  Oh, thank you. Tyler Parker's like that.

• 24:51Sean Fennessey?

  Hundred percent.

• 24:52Bill Simmons?

  Cover the bylines, like that's Tyler Parker.

• 24:53Sean Fennessey?

  Yep.

• 24:54Bill Simmons?

  Scorsese is definitely-

• 24:55Sean Fennessey?

  It is the highest compliment I think you can pay a writer.

• 24:57Bill Simmons?

  It's a good one. Scorsese definitely, there's some sort of style that he has that you can, you can, you can be like, I bet if somebody just blindfolded or he had amnesia and you came out of it and you're like, guess what director? He's one of the few that I feel like I would know who the director is.

• 25:12Sean Fennessey?

  You know what's cool with him too? He's also one who if you, if you blindfolded yourself and just listened to the music in a movie.

• 25:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 25:22Sean Fennessey?

  You'd be able to know right away, because this is the same thing as Goodfellas 2 where it's like- Heavy score, 50s needle drops, punk rock.

• 25:30Bill Simmons?

  No Rolling Stones somehow.

• 25:31Sean Fennessey?

  No Rolling Stones, that's true.

• 25:33Bill Simmons?

  Can't believe he didn't work in like Dead Flowers or just some sort of random.

• 25:37Sean Fennessey?

  What was, what was the Stones records like in the 80s? I'm not as up on the Stones in the 80s.

• 25:41Bill Simmons?

  It was that we could have, he could have dipped right into Tattoo You and done.

• 25:44Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 25:45Bill Simmons?

  Something from that.

• 25:46Sean Fennessey?

  Kind of like fake disco stuff that they were doing. Yeah, that, that could have worked.

• 25:50Bill Simmons?

  Well, Scorsese loved it. And he called this movie kind of a miracle, a rejuvenation. Every time I put my eye to the viewfinder, I was happy. I could sit down, look at the set with detachment. It was a great feeling. I regained the freedom I felt when I was starting out. It was a real gift. It made me think like, and we, we talked about Coogler, I remember with somebody on Ringer Movies, about how I just wish he made more movies, which is like, kind of like a shitty thing to say in some ways. Where it's like, I wish you did your job more, you know?

• 26:22Sean Fennessey?

  You just wish you had more of his movies to watch.

• 26:24Bill Simmons?

  I just wish sometimes great directors would just be like, fuck it. I'm just gonna do this movie for four months. Like Soderbergh's really good at this. So just be like, fuck it, I'm gonna make a movie. I'm just gonna bang one out. Be like, I like the script, it'll take three months, we'll see how it goes.

• 26:38Sean Fennessey?

  It's, some of it depends on how you work though. Like Soderbergh shoots and edits his movies. He holds the camera when he makes the movie. He is doing everything. And so for him, he cuts the movie together while he's making it, cause it's all in his head.

• 26:53Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 26:54Sean Fennessey?

  He's an alien. You know what I mean? Like, so he, of course, he's gonna end his career with like 95 movies. It's amazing. And he's constantly working. Coogler is trying to make hundred million dollar movies and they take years to put together. And you gotta make sure that all the stars are available at the right time. You gotta make sure all the, your crew is ready to do it.

• 27:12Bill Simmons?

  But I just wish I, I could see Ryan Coogler's After Hours, where he's just like, yeah, it's just everything takes place in one day and I did some weird shit.

• 27:19Sean Fennessey?

  Some, but you can only make movies like After Hours when you're low.

• 27:22Bill Simmons?

  True.

• 27:22Sean Fennessey?

  You know, or you could, you could decide to make a small movie, but you know, he's, he felt like he was at the bottom. You know, Coogler's at the top. He's been at the top for 10 years, so.

• 27:30Bill Simmons?

  Stan Kubrick is another one.

• 27:33Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, he took his time. Stan, huh?

• 27:35Bill Simmons?

  Stan, yeah, my guy Stan.

• 27:37Sean Fennessey?

  Stan, okay.

• 27:37Bill Simmons?

  Stan Kubrick.

• 27:38Sean Fennessey?

  Interesting.

• 27:38Bill Simmons?

  I call him Stan.

• 27:40Sean Fennessey?

  He was a New Yorker.

• 27:41Bill Simmons?

  Just throw a buddy cop, New York buddy cop movie, just randomly.

• 27:44Sean Fennessey?

  I'll tell you, he would direct the hell out of a buddy cop.

• 27:46Bill Simmons?

  Die Hard 3.

• 27:47Sean Fennessey?

  Would watch it, would watch it.

• 27:49Bill Simmons?

  It would have been great.

• 27:49Sean Fennessey?

  I wouldn't take McTiernan away from Die Hard 3, but I would watch Stan Kubrick's Die Hard 4. I'm not gonna forget Stan Kubrick.

• 27:56Bill Simmons?

  Our guy Stan.

• 27:59Sean Fennessey?

  You think you'd get along with Kubrick?

• 28:02Sean Fennessey?

  Think you'd be boys?

• 28:03Bill Simmons?

  I think it's, I think what he did to Cruz and Kidman, where he was just clearly trying to break them emotionally was really the most interesting thing he did.

• 28:13Sean Fennessey?

  You related to that?

• 28:14Bill Simmons?

  No, just that he was like, this marriage is so fascinating to me, I'm just gonna make them do scene after scene after scene and see what can happen here.

• 28:23Sean Fennessey?

  He had a filmmaking style.

• 28:24Bill Simmons?

  Should we do the re-eyes wide shut and do it live?

• 28:27Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 28:27Bill Simmons?

  In the weirdest, in London?

• 28:28Sean Fennessey?

  Just me and you? Just looking at each other the whole time?

• 28:34Bill Simmons?

  So, Griffin Dunn said,

• 28:39Bill Simmons?

  I think it's good, yeah. I love the way, he's talking about the movie, I love the way he goes through the night and finally comes out on the other side. It's like a sleepless night, a night of horrifying dreams. You're floating through another world with no idea of when or how it would resolve. I wonder if that's what attracted Scorsese to this too? That this is like, almost like a fever nightmare.

• 29:01Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 29:01Bill Simmons?

  And God only knows what kind of baggage he had from 76, 77, 78.

• 29:06Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I'm sure he's channeling that.

• 29:08Bill Simmons?

  In a sinkhole

• 29:09Sean Fennessey?

  Uh huh.

• 29:10Bill Simmons?

  of a day.

• 29:11Sean Fennessey?

  Yep. I think he's also probably interested in surreal art. And most of his art up until this point is pretty realistic, you know, pretty dramatically realistic. You know, Taxi Driver does kind of feel like a nightmare at times, but Raging Bull, shot in black and white, almost feels like documentary. It's somebody put a camera in Jake LaMotta's family's house and you're like, oh my God, I'm not supposed to be seeing this. So this is tremendously different with the way the camera's moving like we're talking about, the way that things keep escalating and getting worse and worse. And this feeling of just like, it's almost like, you know, the feeling when like a bug is crawling on you?

• 29:44Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 29:44Sean Fennessey?

  And you're itching and you're like, God, get that off of me. Like, the movie kind of feels like that sometimes. And he's just well suited to it and maybe he is just channeling those coki nights, you know? Those, so many nights of being completely consumed by baby coke daddy.

• 29:59Bill Simmons?

  Plus like they, nobody had any idea that how bad coke was for you.

• 30:03Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 30:04Bill Simmons?

  Like, hey, is this bad for us? I don't know. Jenny's in the bathroom with her nose bleeding, but I think she'll be okay. After this movie. Goodfellas is five years later.

• 30:15Sean Fennessey?

  Yep.

• 30:15Bill Simmons?

  He also does Last Temptation of Christ. Kind of writes the ship, but then Goodfellas is when.

• 30:21Sean Fennessey?

  Well, you're forgetting two things that I think are pretty critical. One is the color of money. And the color of money filmmaking style.

• 30:27Bill Simmons?

  Right after.

• 30:27Sean Fennessey?

  And that same thing, that camera is flying across the pool table. And I think it's because he's working with Michael Ballhaus. So Michael Ballhaus is German cinematographer.

• 30:35Bill Simmons?

  CR's guy.

• 30:36Sean Fennessey?

  CR's guy, they start working together.

• 30:38Bill Simmons?

  Ballhaus hive.

• 30:38Sean Fennessey?

  They, they make seven movies together. All bangers. And he's the one who with film and schoolmakers editing style, they build this kind of new version of the Scorsese movie. So you got color of money. And then the second thing that you got that I really liked that is a little underrated is his segment of New York stories. Which is called Life Lessons. It's Nick Nolte and Roseanne Arquette. Nick Nolte plays a painter and Roseanne Arquette plays like his assistant and former lover. If people haven't seen it, it's a weird movie. It's a trilogy. It's like a omnibus movie. Woody Allen, Francis Ford Coppola and Scorsese make a part of those movies. Scorsese's is by far the best to me. But those movies.

• 31:17Bill Simmons?

  Coppola's is pretty rough.

• 31:19Sean Fennessey?

  It stars his daughter, Sophia.

• 31:20Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 31:21Sean Fennessey?

  And she's very young.

• 31:22Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 31:23Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I wouldn't say Woody's is very good either, to be honest, but I love Life, Life Lessons. And so this little pocket of time is what takes us to Goodfellas, Cape Fear Casino. Like those movies wouldn't happen without these movies.

• 31:36Bill Simmons?

  Let's take a break and then we'll talk about the ladies in this movie. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Life is full of decisions, big and small, and sometimes you make one. You can really stand behind. I did this a few times in my life, especially in the mid 2010s after I left Grantland and ESPN. And I was like, you know what? I still think there's an idea for a company that could really work. And then The Ringer, and now we're 10 years later, we're still here. State Farm gets it. Making confident choices can make all the difference. That's why with the State Farm Personal Price Plan, you can choose the right amount of coverage to help create an affordable price. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the Personal Price Plan.

• 32:20Bill Simmons?

  Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. All right. Just quick on the cast, because it's all over the place. And I have a different spot for Griffin Dunn.

• 32:39Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 32:39Bill Simmons?

  But Rosanne Arquette and Linda Fiorentino in the same movie. I don't even know really how to describe this as a kid who was alive in 1985, two of the greats. Fiorentino.

• 32:50Sean Fennessey?

  This is being recorded.

• 32:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I got it. I was 16.

• 32:56Sean Fennessey?

  Rosanne Arquette is

• 33:01Sean Fennessey?

  I, otherworldly in this movie.

• 33:03Bill Simmons?

  She in 1985 is in Silverado After Hours and desperately seeking Susan.

• 33:08Sean Fennessey?

  I wrote this down too, yeah. Cooking.

• 33:10Bill Simmons?

  And if somebody at age 16 had come up to me and said, you could make out with her, but you have to kill three people. I would have been like, which three?

• 33:21Sean Fennessey?

  A close friend or like an acquaintance?

• 33:22Bill Simmons?

  Pick the three.

• 33:24Sean Fennessey?

  The president?

• 33:25Bill Simmons?

  You can spend 24 hours with her, you have to kill 10 people.

• 33:28Sean Fennessey?

  Would you have killed Ronald Reagan for Rosanne Arquette? Answer the question.

• 33:33Bill Simmons?

  And she was also in Executioner's Song with Tommy Lee Jones, which is where I first saw her, which is a TV movie.

• 33:38Sean Fennessey?

  So she was so beautiful and so idiosyncratically.

• 33:42Bill Simmons?

  There's really nobody like her.

• 33:43Sean Fennessey?

  And her, her personality, her speaking voice, everything about her is just intoxicating in this movie.

• 33:49Bill Simmons?

  I do this sometimes on the rewatchables where I always get mad that somebody didn't, wasn't in more good stuff. She's like a first ballot for me. For, I just don't understand it and the parts must have been so bad. And I think there was this mentality in the eighties and nineties where, oh, somebody had their moment for a year. Let's move on to the next actress. And you just kind of got left behind. It's so funny that Tarantino.

• 34:11Sean Fennessey?

  That's what I was gonna say, but he did, that's why he did this.

• 34:13Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 34:14Sean Fennessey?

  Because he was like, why is no one using her?

• 34:15Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, she was like, she's right there.

• 34:17Sean Fennessey?

  I know, I know.

• 34:18Bill Simmons?

  Is that the one with all the shit on her face? That's my wife.

• 34:21Sean Fennessey?

  Trudy, yeah.

• 34:23Bill Simmons?

  But yes, it just, I don't understand it.

• 34:26Sean Fennessey?

  I don't know. Stop bothering me. That's my favorite Eric Stoltz too.

• 34:29Bill Simmons?

  Every moment she's in the movie, you're like, can she be in the movie more?

• 34:32Sean Fennessey?

  I know. I, it's a, I don't know if it's a what if, and she did cool stuff, like she's in Cronenberg's Crash. She was in, um, like Buffalo 66. She was in some cool movies later on, but she, she, she could have been, should have been just a big mainstream movie star. Obviously her whole family is in the movies.

• 34:49Bill Simmons?

  I was gonna do this later. I'll do it now. Like, I don't know, Meg Ryan, some of the parts Meg Ryan had from basically the late eighties on.

• 34:57Sean Fennessey?

  People might scoff.

• 34:58Bill Simmons?

  She could have had half of those.

• 34:59Sean Fennessey?

  People might scoff at that, but if you watch her in Desperately Seeking Susan, that's a Meg Ryan part. You know what I mean? Like she, it's the same kind of a character where you're like with her, she's the empathetic, like regular girl.

• 35:09Bill Simmons?

  She could have been in When Harry Met Sally, easily.

• 35:11Sean Fennessey?

  I totally agree. It's a weird one.

• 35:13Bill Simmons?

  I feel like she could have been Kelly McGillis in Top Gun.

• 35:16Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, definitely.

• 35:17Bill Simmons?

  You pick a movie from 86 to like 93, and I feel like she could have been the lead.

• 35:22Sean Fennessey?

  Dude, I'm so into you.

• 35:23Bill Simmons?

  I just loved her.

• 35:23Sean Fennessey?

  And I also, this is a big reason why I have such a big relationship to this movie is because I'm like, this is the Rosanna Arquette movie. This is the movie that like got her the most right out of any movie. You know, she's good in like Eight Million Ways to Die and stuff like that, but this is the one where she, you can feel Scorsese idealizing that feeling when you meet somebody and you're like, whoa, who is she?

• 35:45Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 35:46Sean Fennessey?

  I want to be closer to her.

• 35:47Bill Simmons?

  Here's who she was. Toto was like, let's write Rosanna about Rosanna Arquette. Because she walked into the room and we fucking had to write a song about it. It was that spectacular.

• 35:57Sean Fennessey?

  As captured in the Yacht Rock documentary, yes.

• 35:58Bill Simmons?

  I don't understand, if some people are just obviously movie stars, I don't understand how some of them don't end up in better movies.

• 36:05Sean Fennessey?

  I don't know.

• 36:06Bill Simmons?

  Fiorentino is a little more easy to understand because, uh, this is CR who couldn't be here because he's away.

• 36:12Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 36:12Bill Simmons?

  We didn't, we didn't intentionally not have CR in this. He's just not here.

• 36:16Sean Fennessey?

  No, I said, stay home, Chris. I got this.

• 36:19Bill Simmons?

  We were maybe a little worried about the Fiorentino part because, uh, I don't, we might have had to hose him down. Uh, I asked him if he had one, one thing for CR to say in the pod.

• 36:29Sean Fennessey?

  Can I guess what he said?

• 36:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 36:31Sean Fennessey?

  I want her to step on my neck.

• 36:33Bill Simmons?

  No. Now, he said, uh, can you please say that Linda Fiorentino is a CR, throw your life away Hall of Famer?

• 36:41Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, especially in this movie.

• 36:43Bill Simmons?

  I probably would have said that anyway, but fine.

• 36:45Sean Fennessey?

  Rip in heaters, making plaster of Paris, Edvard Munch.

• 36:49Bill Simmons?

  First time you say she's in a bra for no reason.

• 36:51Sean Fennessey?

  And she's just taking her top off in front of strangers. Interesting movie.

• 36:55Bill Simmons?

  She's in this and Vision Quest in the same year. Vision Quest, which is, we already did that on the rewatchables.

• 37:02Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 37:03Bill Simmons?

  But the premise of a high school kid and this hot lady is staying in the upstairs room and there's no way she'd have sex with him. He's only 17 and the entire, the whole movie hinges on it. And then guess what?

• 37:14Sean Fennessey?

  She, that's the wrestling movie?

• 37:16Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 37:17Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 37:17Bill Simmons?

  Matt Modine.

• 37:18Sean Fennessey?

  What's the cycling movie that Matt Modine was in? Or am I thinking of Kevin Bacon? What's his cycling?

• 37:23Bill Simmons?

  Quicksilver.

• 37:24Sean Fennessey?

  Quicksilver. Okay. All right.

• 37:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. He was in a sailing movie, Wind with Jennifer Grey, Matthew Modine.

• 37:29Sean Fennessey?

  Haven't, haven't seen it.

• 37:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Tubey.

• 37:31Sean Fennessey?

  Got it.

• 37:32Bill Simmons?

  So Linda Fiorentino.

• 37:36Bill Simmons?

  Red hot.

• 37:36Sean Fennessey?

  Yep.

• 37:37Bill Simmons?

  And then just stops acting for like two years, doesn't like it. And then just kind of bounces back and forth.

• 37:42Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. That's what I'm gonna do with potting. I'm taking two years off.

• 37:45Bill Simmons?

  Where's Sean? He's just gone for two years.

• 37:46Sean Fennessey?

  I'm coming back with my last seduction.

• 37:48Bill Simmons?

  But she, she has the ability to come in just red hot for like two scenes. And a couple of directors realized that some other ones didn't. She got kind of typecast as the femme fatale.

• 38:00Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 38:00Bill Simmons?

  There was, I think, a bunch of other stuff she could have done that they never really unlocked.

• 38:04Sean Fennessey?

  Real mixed reports on how fun she was to work with over the years.

• 38:07Bill Simmons?

  It seems like, yeah, that's, she's definitely, when they talk about the difficult actress group, she gets thrown in there. Who knows? But, uh, when she's on the screen, not looking away.

• 38:18Sean Fennessey?

  She's a presence.

• 38:19Bill Simmons?

  What's she up to?

• 38:20Sean Fennessey?

  She is a presence. Uh, this is an apartment that features Linda Fiorentino and Rosanna Arquette living together at this time.

• 38:27Bill Simmons?

  Unbelievable.

• 38:28Sean Fennessey?

  It's a lot.

• 38:28Bill Simmons?

  CR never would have been seen again.

• 38:29Sean Fennessey?

  No.

• 38:30Bill Simmons?

  He just would have been in plaster.

• 38:31Sean Fennessey?

  No. He would have been horsed. He would have been in all leather.

• 38:34Bill Simmons?

  And then Teri Garr. Yeah, CR is worse. Can we Photoshop that?

• 38:39Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, that should be the image that we share this episode with.

• 38:42Bill Simmons?

  Terry Gar also in a heater in the mid eighties because this is when she's one of Letterman's best guests. She's an established, uh, famous actress from Tootsie and Close Encounters.

• 38:51Sean Fennessey?

  She's hilarious in this movie.

• 38:52Bill Simmons?

  Stuff.

• 38:53Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 38:53Bill Simmons?

  And this is like just Terry Gar being Terry Gar.

• 38:56Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm.

• 38:58Bill Simmons?

  An amazing, amazing Letterman guest for the first four years.

• 39:01Sean Fennessey?

  Why was she so good?

• 39:02Bill Simmons?

  She just had like such a good chemistry with him. He did a whole-

• 39:05Sean Fennessey?

  They were flirty together.

• 39:06Bill Simmons?

  Super flirty.

• 39:07Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 39:08Bill Simmons?

  He did, the famous episode she did was, he did a whole show in his office.

• 39:14Bill Simmons?

  They just filmed it in the office and it was like this experimental show in the office. And at the end of it, he convinced her to take a shower in her ba- in his bathroom. And she came out with all these towels on and she's like, I can't believe you're making me do this. And then she went in, they cut, they made it so they covered everything. You couldn't see anything. And, uh, he just basically dared her to take a shower and she did it. And it's just like fucking crazy.

• 39:36Sean Fennessey?

  Think that would happen today?

• 39:37Bill Simmons?

  It would not.

• 39:38Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 39:38Bill Simmons?

  It would not. But she was like ready, she would go on and she'd be ready for anything with Letterman. And she would go back and forth and you're always like, why don't these two end up together?

• 39:46Sean Fennessey?

  It's funny because she is so good as the woman who like grabs on a little too quick.

• 39:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 39:53Sean Fennessey?

  She's like a little too interested.

• 39:54Bill Simmons?

  Little clingy.

• 39:55Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, and you're like, and he's got this other girl in the back of his head and he's kind of been thrown off the scent. But she's very good at that clingy thing.

• 40:01Bill Simmons?

  And then Catherine O'Hara.

• 40:02Sean Fennessey?

  Who I think, I'm just gonna say it. I think looks smoking hot in this movie.

• 40:06Bill Simmons?

  She looks great.

• 40:06Sean Fennessey?

  Um, and we don't think of her that way.

• 40:08Bill Simmons?

  She looks like Jennifer Aniston.

• 40:09Sean Fennessey?

  She, you know, it's like, that's the mom from Home Alone, Schitt's Creek. She's gone on to be this like beloved character actress, even Beetlejuice, like lots and lots of parts. In this movie as the Mr. Softy lady, chef's kiss. I love it.

• 40:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it taps into something that I don't really think she did in any other movie.

• 40:27Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, and you know, she had been-

• 40:28Bill Simmons?

  I guess maybe Best in Show is the other one.

• 40:31Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 40:32Bill Simmons?

  When, uh, when, I forget what her character name is, but she, she had a history.

• 40:36Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 40:37Bill Simmons?

  Everybody she met. There, there's some sort of like, energy with her that, SCTV hit, and then in movies, and then eventually she became Home Alone lady for a while.

• 40:47Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, but she is like, she has a sexiness to her that she doesn't, is not usually asked to tap into, because she's usually just playing mom.

• 40:52Bill Simmons?

  She's good in this.

• 40:53Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 40:54Bill Simmons?

  4.5 million dollar budget made 10.6 million. Not great.

• 40:59Sean Fennessey?

  Not great.

• 41:00Bill Simmons?

  Raj. Four stars. Put it on his great movies list.

• 41:06Bill Simmons?

  Scorsese's attempt continues to combine comedy and satire with unrelenting pressure and a sense of all pervading paranoia. All pervading paranoia.

• 41:17Sean Fennessey?

  Pretty much right.

• 41:18Bill Simmons?

  Be a good book. Pauline Kael.

• 41:23Bill Simmons?

  Scorsese's using his skills and even his personality like a hired hand, making a vacuous polished piece of consumer goods all surface.

• 41:33Sean Fennessey?

  That's surprising.

• 41:34Bill Simmons?

  That's gonna give a fuck you Pauline for me. First ever we've had.

• 41:37Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 41:38Bill Simmons?

  We've had a few fuck you Rajes. I have to do fuck you Pauline on that.

• 41:41Sean Fennessey?

  Do you think we should do a social media breakout of you cursing out prominent critics of the time? String it all together.

• 41:46Bill Simmons?

  Vacuous polished piece of consumer goods? Talk about missing the movie. Jesus.

• 41:51Sean Fennessey?

  That is a gross misunderstanding.

• 41:52Bill Simmons?

  How are you doing?

• 41:53Sean Fennessey?

  You know, I think about this sometimes, doing the big picture. Like, I, we know a little bit too much about how movies are made, right? We know a little bit too much about the production, the backstory.

• 42:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 42:02Sean Fennessey?

  Like, F1 is out this weekend, and that's a movie that like, was made during the strikes, and we did the rewrites, and the reshoots, and you bring some of that stuff to the conversation. So her saying that this is just like, an assignment job, you know, that she's using that as a lens to analyze the movie, as opposed to just looking objectively at the movie.

• 42:22Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 42:23Sean Fennessey?

  You can't. There's no way to separate the two things, so I understand, but we don't think about the movie in that way. When I saw it, I didn't think like, oh, this is just Scorsese taking a job so he can get back on the track, so that he can eventually make last temptation of Christ.

• 42:34Bill Simmons?

  Why can't he do that?

• 42:36Sean Fennessey?

  I agree.

• 42:36Bill Simmons?

  Like, he can't fucking get a job? Maybe he couldn't find a better movie. I don't know.

• 42:41Sean Fennessey?

  I agree.

• 42:41Bill Simmons?

  It's very strange.

• 42:43Sean Fennessey?

  Bad take. Bad take by Pauline.

• 42:45Bill Simmons?

  Categories. Most rewatchable scene.

• 42:48Bill Simmons?

  Rosé and Arquette's first scene in the diner. Some good camera work going on in that one, too.

• 42:53Sean Fennessey?

  I love that book.

• 42:55Bill Simmons?

  Fiorentino back rub scene.

• 42:57Sean Fennessey?

  I have that.

• 42:59Bill Simmons?

  I wrote down, uh, this is one of my favorite movie devices when somebody's telling a long story that somehow gets rudely interrupted, or we never find out the punchline or the money shot of the story.

• 43:11Sean Fennessey?

  This one's particularly good because he realizes she's asleep just as he's about to complete the story.

• 43:15Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, and we'll never know what happens. I love when they do that.

• 43:20Bill Simmons?

  At least I think it was night.

• 43:24Bill Simmons?

  I reached up,

• 43:27Bill Simmons?

  untied a blindfold.

• 43:31Bill Simmons?

  And

• 43:34Bill Simmons?

  I saw.

• 43:45Bill Simmons?

  One of my favorites is Halloween, the original one. Loomis is looking for Myers's grave and the undertaker is telling this long story. And then he showed up and he's like, where are we? It just interrupts him and we never find out what happened.

• 43:59Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, that's the carpenter's sense of humor.

• 44:02Bill Simmons?

  The diner scene with Marcy the second time.

• 44:05Sean Fennessey?

  My husband was a movie freak.

• 44:06Bill Simmons?

  Yes, yes. And the guy who runs the diner says the title in the movie.

• 44:10Sean Fennessey?

  Dick Miller, yeah, legendary that guy.

• 44:13Bill Simmons?

  The subway token scene I have? When the guy won't let him go for an extra dollar.

• 44:18Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, the fare went up at midnight.

• 44:21Bill Simmons?

  And Griffin Dunn looks around and he's like, who's gonna know? And he's like, I could go to a party, get drunk, tell somebody, who knows?

• 44:30Bill Simmons?

  I love that guy.

• 44:32Sean Fennessey?

  That's so funny.

• 44:35Bill Simmons?

  Marcy dying, even though I have some other thoughts on it, but it fucking kills me when he puts the side up. When he puts the dead body with the arrow.

• 44:47Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, that is very funny.

• 44:49Bill Simmons?

  It's just like so, it's, we're at another level of black comedy with that. She just killed herself in the bedroom. He's like, dead body.

• 44:56Sean Fennessey?

  The moment before that, though, is so funny to me when he's removing the blanket to reveal that she doesn't have any burns.

• 45:04Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 45:04Sean Fennessey?

  And he's like, damn it, I shouldn't have left. I could have slept with her and she could have not killed herself.

• 45:12Sean Fennessey?

  This is the darkest dark comedy. It's so good.

• 45:14Bill Simmons?

  It's blacker than black. It's like a purple comedy.

• 45:19Bill Simmons?

  The Terry Gar scene is just really funny. She's dialing it up.

• 45:24Sean Fennessey?

  I think the terminal bar in general, going to the bar where her is the bartender and she's like slipping him the notes and her can't get the cash register open, all that stuff is so great.

• 45:32Bill Simmons?

  And that's like your classic, what the hell is going on here in New York City bar? It's like 1:30 in the morning and there's four people there.

• 45:38Sean Fennessey?

  There's the leather guy.

• 45:38Bill Simmons?

  Guy can't work, the cash register won't open.

• 45:42Sean Fennessey?

  And that is a very, I mean, that's, that New York is still alive. Like, that's a thing you can find today.

• 45:47Bill Simmons?

  The punk rock club, punk, punk rock club?

• 45:50Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 45:50Bill Simmons?

  When they're like, Mohawk this guy.

• 45:53Sean Fennessey?

  Club Berlin.

• 45:53Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. The Catherine Harris scene in the apartment when he's trying to remember the phone number and she's just saying other numbers, which is something I did for 30 years. Now, you don't, everyone has the numbers. I say it to my wife all the time.

• 46:07Sean Fennessey?

  It's a great bit.

• 46:08Bill Simmons?

  She would go crazy.

• 46:08Sean Fennessey?

  It is a great bit.

• 46:09Bill Simmons?

  She'd be like, okay, so it's two, five. And I'd be like, five, nine, eight, seven.

• 46:15Bill Simmons?

  I think, but that came from this movie. I've never seen anyone do that.

• 46:18Sean Fennessey?

  You just kind of distilled your sense of humor right there.

• 46:20Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's it. There's nothing funnier than that.

• 46:23Speaker 05

  Five, eight, six, two.

• 46:25Speaker 06

  Don't.

• 46:26Speaker 05

  Nine, three, eight, zero.

• 46:37Speaker 06

  Now I have forgotten the number.

• 46:41Speaker 06

  What is wrong with you? Are you alright?

• 46:44Bill Simmons?

  The Verna Bloom is that or other is.

• 46:46Sean Fennessey?

  You got all my ones.

• 46:47Bill Simmons?

  And then, uh, I like the ending. I know the ending is super polarizing. They couldn't come up with one. We could talk about it in the research.

• 46:55Sean Fennessey?

  The drop off in the van or the end credits sequence around the office?

• 46:59Bill Simmons?

  No, the, the drop, I like that he's kidnapped in this van. Does, I mean, they don't know they're kidnapping him. And then they turn and he just fall. I actually think it works.

• 47:08Sean Fennessey?

  It's a great story about what happened.

• 47:10Bill Simmons?

  They were so upset about that, ah, we couldn't come up with the ending. We had to throw this together. I'm like, that ending's great, guys.

• 47:15Sean Fennessey?

  It's really, really clever.

• 47:16Bill Simmons?

  It's perfect.

• 47:17Sean Fennessey?

  It's almost like he woke up from a dream because he ends up where he started.

• 48:00Bill Simmons?

  Like, how do they, how do they feel bad about that ending?

• 48:03Sean Fennessey?

  I don't know. I think it's great, too. And I, I even just that final thing where the camera's kind of whipping around that office space over the end credits. I just think it's such a, it's almost like his mind is spinning inside.

• 48:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 48:12Sean Fennessey?

  Trying to remember, like, did that really just happen to me? It's such a good idea.

• 48:15Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. So what do you have for most rewatchable?

• 48:20Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, the one that is the most iconic to me is the diner conversation between Rosanna Arquette and Griffin Dunn.

• 48:26Bill Simmons?

  The second one or the first one?

• 48:27Sean Fennessey?

  The second, the second one. The one where she's like, my husband was a movie freak. He loved to watch The Wizard of Oz over and over again. Surrender Dorothy. All that stuff is just so, like, baked into the mythos of this movie for me. So that's my favorite.

• 48:39Bill Simmons?

  I have that as well.

• 48:40Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 48:41Bill Simmons?

  Surrender Dorothy is high comedy.

• 48:42Sean Fennessey?

  It's hilarious.

• 48:43Bill Simmons?

  I don't even understand it. I don't know how any writer would come up with that idea.

• 48:47Sean Fennessey?

  We didn't talk about the background with Joseph Minion, the guy who wrote the movie. But he wrote it when he was 21. It was his senior thesis when he was in film school. And it got bought and then hung around for a few years, five years. But a lot of the stuff in the first half is all his, is like stuff that he was writing. And I think he got an A plus on his thesis.

• 49:07Bill Simmons?

  I would hope so.

• 49:07Sean Fennessey?

  And then it went on to get sold as this like

• 49:09Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 49:10Sean Fennessey?

  study of the male mind in New York City at night. And then I think a lot of the back half is very Scorseseized.

• 49:19Bill Simmons?

  I would have gone with Joe Minion as my screen name.

• 49:22Sean Fennessey?

  Joey Minion?

• 49:23Bill Simmons?

  Or Joey, Joseph Minion.

• 49:25Sean Fennessey?

  Joey Bats Minion?

• 49:27Bill Simmons?

  Joseph Minion sounds like you were a philosopher in the 1500s.

• 49:32Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, I mean, he's a philosopher.

• 49:34Bill Simmons?

  I read a Joseph Minion book.

• 49:35Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 49:35Bill Simmons?

  What's the most 1985 thing about this movie? I had four. Did you have a pick?

• 49:41Sean Fennessey?

  I have a, one obvious one, which is just Soho in the 80s. That just Soho doesn't look like this anymore. You still have those kind of cobblestone-ish brick streets and you still have those kind of tenement style buildings. But there's just like, you know, J Crew and Lambon down there now, you know, and like eight dollar coffee shops. And then

• 50:03Bill Simmons?

  Some douchey people too, let's be honest.

• 50:05Sean Fennessey?

  A lot of douchey people, yeah.

• 50:06Bill Simmons?

  Sorry, Soho.

• 50:07Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, you hate New York. You can say it out loud.

• 50:09Bill Simmons?

  I don't hate New York.

• 50:10Sean Fennessey?

  New York.

• 50:11Bill Simmons?

  No, I like New York. I just don't like getting there.

• 50:14Sean Fennessey?

  Um.

• 50:15Bill Simmons?

  I don't realize why it's like going to London now. It's like

• 50:18Sean Fennessey?

  Because of the airport?

• 50:19Bill Simmons?

  The, everything. Just you land and then it's another two plus hours to get in the city.

• 50:23Sean Fennessey?

  It's no walk in the park coming to LAX. I mean, that's not, you know.

• 50:27Bill Simmons?

  I also don't like the power walking situation in New York City these days with all the bikes.

• 50:32Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, yeah, that's fair.

• 50:33Bill Simmons?

  And, and guess what? Maybe legalizing everybody being able to smoke pot and blow pot smoke. I'm no stranger to pot.

• 50:41Sean Fennessey?

  Unlike in Los Angeles?

• 50:42Bill Simmons?

  Three blocks with the, I hate the pot smoke thing in general. That sounds like an old guy.

• 50:46Sean Fennessey?

  Wow.

• 50:47Bill Simmons?

  Let's have some respect for people with kids pushing strollers.

• 50:50Sean Fennessey?

  We went to a party last night across the street from the party, 7-Eleven. We're walking through the 7-Eleven parking lot. There's A guy smoking a joint in the parking lot right next to a police cruiser. And I was like, picture this 20 years ago. That guy would have been thrown in the clink.

• 51:06Bill Simmons?

  Why do I have to smell the secondhand pot smoke if I didn't sign up for it?

• 51:09Sean Fennessey?

  Just let people live, you know? Just let them do what they want. So you don't want to be power walking in New York, but you do want to power walk in Los Angeles, where people drive like maniacs and there are no sidewalks?

• 51:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 51:19Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, got it.

• 51:20Bill Simmons?

  I just, I haven't power walked in New York enough because the whole thing where the bikes can just take the left and right turns and you just basically have to make, and I'm listening to a podcast on my headphones and not.

• 51:31Sean Fennessey?

  What are you listening to, Terminator and Eddie? That's who you got fired up.

• 51:35Bill Simmons?

  I have three, I have four 1985 things about this movie.

• 51:40Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 51:41Bill Simmons?

  Opening credits, The Geffen Company presents.

• 51:43Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, good one.

• 51:44Bill Simmons?

  How many years were The Geffen Company even making movies?

• 51:46Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I'm not that long, mostly in the eighties, but that was him like leveraging his success as a music manager and trying to get into Hollywood.

• 51:54Bill Simmons?

  Giving somebody a phone number. I guess that's not necessarily 1985, but it's definitely eighties, nineties of like, let me write down your phone number or else there's no way to get ahold. Now we would just be like.

• 52:04Sean Fennessey?

  Put it in your phone.

• 52:05Bill Simmons?

  Now you just be like, I'll call you on your phone and now you have my number.

• 52:08Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 52:10Bill Simmons?

  A Bronson Pinchot cameo. Young Bronson. That felt very 1985 to me, fresh off his playing Serge in Beverly Hills Cop and his risky business.

• 52:20Sean Fennessey?

  This was high time for him.

• 52:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 52:21Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, he's about to be Balki in Perfect Strangers. You watched Perfect Strangers?

• 52:25Bill Simmons?

  I didn't.

• 52:26Sean Fennessey?

  You didn't watch it?

• 52:27Bill Simmons?

  Wasn't a fan.

• 52:28Sean Fennessey?

  What?

• 52:28Bill Simmons?

  Didn't really like Balki.

• 52:31Sean Fennessey?

  This is shocking.

• 52:32Bill Simmons?

  I was in high school at that point. I was too old.

• 52:34Sean Fennessey?

  You think you're better than me?

• 52:35Bill Simmons?

  I just was too old.

• 52:39Bill Simmons?

  Here's my choice, though. Going all the way across Manhattan in a cab for $6.50.

• 52:44Sean Fennessey?

  Ooh.

• 52:45Bill Simmons?

  I mean, he went like 90 blocks.

• 52:47Sean Fennessey?

  Also, he's holding a 20. What is that, like 100 now? Yeah, it's like fifty.

• 52:51Bill Simmons?

  It's like at least a fifty.

• 52:52Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 52:52Bill Simmons?

  But yeah, six dollars for what is that cap right now?

• 52:55Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, God.

• 52:56Bill Simmons?

  Fifty-eight dollars?

• 52:57Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, uh, I don't know about that much.

• 52:58Bill Simmons?

  Forty-five?

• 52:59Sean Fennessey?

  It's really expensive, yeah, really expensive. I don't know, I'm not in caps as much in New York as I used to be.

• 53:04Bill Simmons?

  Was there a better title for this movie? Throwing that in here.

• 53:07Sean Fennessey?

  There were other titles.

• 53:08Bill Simmons?

  So it was originally called One Night in Soho?

• 53:11Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, which eventually became an Edgar Wright movie.

• 53:13Bill Simmons?

  I'm not against One Night in Soho.

• 53:15Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, I think that the original script that Minion wrote was called Lo- no, was it called Lies? Or was Lies based on a story that? There was like a theater director who had told a story similar to meeting a girl in a diner and kind of going on a journey in New York. And I think Minion based it on that, and I think that was called Lies.

• 53:34Bill Simmons?

  Do we like After Hours as a title?

• 53:35Sean Fennessey?

  I do, I think it's perfect. You don't like it?

• 53:38Bill Simmons?

  It's fine. One Night in Soho is pretty good.

• 53:42Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, and then used in a, in a movie about the other Soho, the original Soho in London in twenty twenty-two by a correct.

• 53:51Bill Simmons?

  What is the best?

• 53:53Sean Fennessey?

  Um, I love this specific data point.

• 53:58Sean Fennessey?

  Martin Scorsese told Griffin Dunn to refrain from sex and sleep during filming in order to get a more realistic feeling of paranoia, and this is what I do before every podcast.

• 54:10Bill Simmons?

  I had, I had this in the Steven Seagal shitting on himself story that he didn't know it was true or not.

• 54:18Sean Fennessey?

  Okay. Uh, that's just a great idea, a weird note to give someone?

• 54:23Bill Simmons?

  Well, let's give all the backstory.

• 54:24Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 54:25Bill Simmons?

  This is what Griffin Dunn said. Also, I love when people talk like this about themselves. Actual quote from Griffin Dunn. Marty knew I was a single man in New York who liked to party. He knew I liked the ladies.

• 54:41Bill Simmons?

  And he said, it's very important for Paul Hackett to have a look of desire in his eyes throughout the whole movie. That's what gets him in this mess in the, in the first place. So I need you not to have sex for the first eight weeks of the shoot.

• 54:51Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 54:52Bill Simmons?

  I said, no problem, I can do that. They start the massage scene on a Friday. They go for the weekend. And Griffin Dunn has what he calls a fucking accident.

• 55:04Bill Simmons?

  Hooks up with somebody Monday, they're refilming the scene. He's panting, touching her back. And in the first take, he's massaging her and Marty goes, cut, Griffin, come here. Did you get laid? You ruined this whole scene. Like he sniffed out that he got laid. You fucked up this whole scene, the whole movie. I trusted you. And he was like really angry.

• 55:26Sean Fennessey?

  It's great stuff.

• 55:27Bill Simmons?

  How does he know?

• 55:29Sean Fennessey?

  He's the master.

• 55:30Bill Simmons?

  The ultimate Catholic.

• 55:31Sean Fennessey?

  He's the maestro.

• 55:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Anyway, that story's amazing.

• 55:33Sean Fennessey?

  That's a good one.

• 55:34Bill Simmons?

  Not as good as Steven Zagal shitting on himself as he's being choked out on the set of Out for Justice, but really good.

• 55:39Sean Fennessey?

  Pretty close. Yeah, that's, this is an amazing career you've made for yourself.

• 55:43Bill Simmons?

  Thank you.

• 55:43Sean Fennessey?

  Rosanna Arquette, 1985, it's gotta be one of what's aged the best. You've already mentioned it, Desperately Seeking Susan.

• 55:48Bill Simmons?

  Not just for this movie, but for life.

• 55:50Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, in the world. She was good. When, when was Roseanne at 84? The Toto song?

• 55:55Bill Simmons?

  I think it was like a year, maybe a year before.

• 55:58Sean Fennessey?

  We'll come back to her, Apex Mountain, I bet. And then the big one for me with Age of the Best is the Home Alone Parents preview.

• 56:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I had that as well.

• 56:03Sean Fennessey?

  We get one moment where we see Catherine O'Hara and John Heard talking together. We don't even hear them talk. We just see them through a window. And then soon they will be two of the most famous parents in movie history, honestly.

• 56:14Bill Simmons?

  By the way, and looking for somebody again.

• 56:16Sean Fennessey?

  That's right. Someone who's lost.

• 56:18Bill Simmons?

  I have, uh, the weird New York characters, cause you could even add a couple, but, uh, specifically the incense cab driver, subway worker guy that we mentioned, and then diner guy? Or just like three so New Yorky, New York characters?

• 56:32Sean Fennessey?

  Both diner guys, Dick Miller and Victor Argo, also a legendary New York actor.

• 56:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 56:37Sean Fennessey?

  They're both, those are the two guys pouring coffee in that spot.

• 56:41Bill Simmons?

  I love vigilante mobs, just in general in movies, when people just holding candles at 4:30 in the morning. I have movies that use real phone numbers. I always enjoy it.

• 56:52Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, good one.

• 56:53Bill Simmons?

  Like I'm at 243, I'm like, oh, they used a real one.

• 56:56Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, when you don't hear a 555. Yeah, okay. I like that. Would you ever call one of the numbers you heard in a movie?

• 57:01Bill Simmons?

  No, but I know people do that.

• 57:02Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 57:03Bill Simmons?

  I like crazy.

• 57:05Sean Fennessey?

  Wait, do you want to give out your phone number right now?

• 57:06Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 57:06Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 57:07Bill Simmons?

  I like crazy New York City cab ride scenes. Because we've all been in those cabs when they're just like weaving through traffic and you're just like, oh my God, am I gonna die?

• 57:17Sean Fennessey?

  So there's a special feature on the Blu-ray of this movie that's a conversation between Scorsese and Fran Lebowitz. They're old friends and Fran Lebowitz also been living in New York for a hundred years. And she says about that moment when Griffin Dunn's character gets in the car and the cab just takes off. She said, you nailed it because at that time, there was a change in New York. In the seventies, all the cab drivers were like Jewish and Italian American guys. And they all were just like family men who were like trying to make a living. And then something changed where the only people who drove cabs were maniacs.

• 57:48Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 57:49Sean Fennessey?

  And she's like, these maniacs had lead foot and they just fucking drove so fast.

• 57:53Bill Simmons?

  They just wanted to get to the next stop.

• 57:53Sean Fennessey?

  Yes. So he had his finger on the pulse of something.

• 57:57Bill Simmons?

  I'll probably get blamed for that. It's really funny when he sees a woman shoot the guy in the apartment.

• 58:04Sean Fennessey?

  I love that part.

• 58:05Bill Simmons?

  It's so weird and he's not like horrified. He's just like, I'll probably get blamed for that.

• 58:10Sean Fennessey?

  Well, we, I haven't.

• 58:10Bill Simmons?

  That's when the movie's just gone nuts.

• 58:12Sean Fennessey?

  But I haven't said like, there's Hitchcock and Fritz Lang noir movies are a huge influence on this movie. And that's like such a perfect rear window moment where you see something you weren't supposed to see. And then we never think about it again.

• 58:23Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 58:23Sean Fennessey?

  Like it never comes up again. Someone got shot in this neighborhood.

• 58:26Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 58:27Sean Fennessey?

  No sirens, no cop cars, nothing.

• 58:29Bill Simmons?

  It's like the Russian in The Sopranos, the Russian in the woods.

• 58:31Sean Fennessey?

  Right.

• 58:32Bill Simmons?

  Surrendered Dorothea Solerius. Just Cheech and Chong being in this movie is a What's Aged The Best.

• 58:37Sean Fennessey?

  Smart move.

• 58:38Bill Simmons?

  Chong said, it was like we were in our own Cheech and Chong movie within a Scorsese movie, which is kind of true.

• 58:43Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm.

• 58:44Bill Simmons?

  And that's all I have for What's Aged The Best.

• 58:48Sean Fennessey?

  I did forget to mention.

• 58:52Sean Fennessey?

  Well, I'll get to it in another category.

• 58:55Bill Simmons?

  Well, the next award is the Sean Fantasy Award for stealth homage that gives every movie nerd a criatur-y orgasm.

• 59:01Sean Fennessey?

  I just ruined it. I think Rear Window is my favorite one. I mean, there's a lot of them, and a lot of them are about like, modern art. There's plenty of Louis Bunuel in the movie with the surrealism that you're finding, and the Edward Munch painting and the plaster of Paris sculpture. But I like seeing that that gal get shot, or that guy shoot that, that girl shoot that guy.

• 59:20Bill Simmons?

  Big Kahuna Burger Award for best use of food and drink. The uneaten diner cheeseburger, I always like when the

• 59:27Sean Fennessey?

  That's what I have too.

• 59:28Bill Simmons?

  brings it over. It just feels, it almost feels like a character for two minutes.

• 59:31Sean Fennessey?

  Can I, can we just talk very quickly about the Mr. Softy truck?

• 59:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 59:34Sean Fennessey?

  Did you grow up with Mr. Softy?

• 59:36Bill Simmons?

  Didn't really have him.

• 59:37Sean Fennessey?

  This is, Mr. Softy is a fucking religion on Long Island, or at least it was when I was a kid. And there were two ice cream trucks. There was your workaday ice cream truck.

• 59:45Bill Simmons?

  We had that one.

• 59:45Sean Fennessey?

  All the regular stuff.

• 59:46Bill Simmons?

  That had all the blow pops and all the different things.

• 59:48Sean Fennessey?

  Everything in the wrapping, you know. And then the Mr. Softy truck was just dispensed by the machine.

• 59:53Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 59:54Sean Fennessey?

  Soft serve ice cream, and

• 59:56Bill Simmons?

  Sounds great.

• 59:57Sean Fennessey?

  You get it with sprinkles, you get it with the candy shell, you know, the cherry shell. And when it came, it was like Christmas morning. It's, Mr. Softy was elite.

• 1:00:07Bill Simmons?

  So Apex Mountain for Mr. Softy?

• 1:00:09Sean Fennessey?

  It would probably be me at like nine years old after a baseball game.

• 1:00:13Bill Simmons?

  Big Kahuna Burger Award could technically be Mr. Softy, but we don't actually see a Mr. Softy in this. So I don't think it's eligible. Uh, great shot order award. I don't even know where to go on this. I'll just let you pick.

• 1:00:24Sean Fennessey?

  So there's the keys, which is an incredibly difficult shot to pull off. Linda Fiorentino goes up to the roof after he gets the address of where Marcy is, and she throws the keys down off the roof, and the keys are coming right at the camera.

• 1:00:37Bill Simmons?

  For no reason. You think it's leading to something, and it really doesn't.

• 1:00:39Sean Fennessey?

  It's just a move.

• 1:00:40Bill Simmons?

  It's just like a move, yeah.

• 1:00:41Sean Fennessey?

  I think, well, I mean, if you wanted to speak metaphorically, you could be like, sharp objects are racing towards this guy. You know what I mean?

• 1:00:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:48Sean Fennessey?

  This is danger at the very beginning of the movie, setting us up for like, almost don't go in there. But that shot apparently was really hard to do, really dangerous for Griffin Dunn to keep trying to do. But it's very, very memorable. I do think that shot of him flying in the cab, where he's sitting in the back and it's bouncing and you're hearing the flamenco music and you're like, what is going on? This movie has this weird pace and energy that I've never seen before. And then I mentioned my favorite by far is the zoom in on Marcy when she winks to the camera. That's my favorite shot.

• 1:01:14Bill Simmons?

  I like when he's, it's like in the last 20 minutes, he's outdoors and he's kind of looking up, and it's like a big crane shot that comes down on him. It's just good.

• 1:01:22Sean Fennessey?

  That's a great one.

• 1:01:24Bill Simmons?

  Kid Cudi Pursued Happiness Award for Best Needle Drop. We do have the Monkees in this movie and we do have Joni Mitchell. But I think the winner is Is That All There Is by Peggy Lee. A favorite song of my mom's.

• 1:01:36Sean Fennessey?

  A great song. I think.

• 1:01:37Bill Simmons?

  She said it's one of the great, it's one of the great divorce songs.

• 1:01:41Sean Fennessey?

  I believe that it was featured in a very memorable episode of Mad Men at the end credits in a similar like post Don and, uh, no, Mad Men.

• 1:01:50Bill Simmons?

  But wasn't it Sopranos?

• 1:01:51Sean Fennessey?

  Maybe it was Sopranos.

• 1:01:51Bill Simmons?

  It was Sopranos too.

• 1:01:53Sean Fennessey?

  Maybe it was Sopran- I don't, I thought I could've sworn there was a Betty and Don sequence.

• 1:01:57Bill Simmons?

  Probably was.

• 1:01:57Sean Fennessey?

  Where, anyway, there's a couple of others I like. One, I think, I liked the last train in Clarksville Monkees drop because Terry Gar was in head, the Monkees movie.

• 1:02:05Bill Simmons?

  Also, pretty good song.

• 1:02:07Sean Fennessey?

  Great song.

• 1:02:08Bill Simmons?

  I was kind of listening to it going, huh, might throw this on a summer mix.

• 1:02:11Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, the Monkees are good, man. Um, Pay to Cum by Bad Brains in the club. And then I think Mozart's Symphony Number 45 at the beginning of the movie is pretty good.

• 1:02:22Bill Simmons?

  Wolfy?

• 1:02:22Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, Wolfy.

• 1:02:24Bill Simmons?

  Pay to Cum, but it's spelled C U M, just for the record.

• 1:02:27Sean Fennessey?

  Thanks for clarifying that.

• 1:02:28Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I noticed that in the soundtrack.

• 1:02:30Sean Fennessey?

  When, I'm not gonna talk to you about that anymore.

• 1:02:32Bill Simmons?

  You know, you're really serious when you're flipping the, flipping the C U M spell.

• 1:02:35Sean Fennessey?

  Punk rock icons. Uh, when are we doing Amadeus?

• 1:02:40Sean Fennessey?

  Speaking of Wolfy.

• 1:02:41Bill Simmons?

  That, that would be Oscar winners month.

• 1:02:43Sean Fennessey?

  Is that something you're gonna do?

• 1:02:44Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I think so.

• 1:02:45Sean Fennessey?

  Interesting.

• 1:02:46Bill Simmons?

  We're gonna run out of movies soon.

• 1:02:46Sean Fennessey?

  Oliver.

• 1:02:47Bill Simmons?

  There's like five movies left.

• 1:02:48Sean Fennessey?

  What other Oscar winners you wanna do? There's five movies left? What are you talking about?

• 1:02:51Bill Simmons?

  Annie Hall.

• 1:02:53Sean Fennessey?

  Interesting. Who's gonna be on that one?

• 1:02:56Bill Simmons?

  Probably be a lottery. You just get chosen to be in it.

• 1:03:00Sean Fennessey?

  Cool. I love Annie Hall.

• 1:03:02Bill Simmons?

  There's some good, uh, some good Oscar winners left. The Chest Rockwell and Brock Landers Award for Best Character Name, it's clearly Horst.

• 1:03:11Sean Fennessey?

  I will give.

• 1:03:12Bill Simmons?

  Was Horst his first name or his last name?

• 1:03:15Sean Fennessey?

  I think it was kinda like Prince.

• 1:03:16Bill Simmons?

  Like Bob Horst? Frankie Horst? Horst Lewis? Which, which way would you go? Horst Johnson?

• 1:03:26Sean Fennessey?

  I think it's just Horst. It's like-

• 1:03:28Bill Simmons?

  Also, the best stealth dog game-

• 1:03:30Sean Fennessey?

  It's like Fabio.

• 1:03:31Bill Simmons?

  Well, if you'd like, if you love this movie and you name your dog Horst-

• 1:03:35Sean Fennessey?

  It's a good inside joke.

• 1:03:36Bill Simmons?

  And then somebody else gets it, they're like, "After hours!" It'd be a good one.

• 1:03:40Sean Fennessey?

  I do think second place is Kiki Bridges. Kiki Bridges-

• 1:03:43Bill Simmons?

  Kiki Bridges.

• 1:03:44Sean Fennessey?

  Downtown Sculptor, that's a good one.

• 1:03:45Bill Simmons?

  Marcy is also just a good-

• 1:03:47Sean Fennessey?

  It is a good name. It's a game, a name we've lost from the culture. Nobody names their kid Marcy anymore.

• 1:03:53Bill Simmons?

  Uh, you have a Sean Fantasy Flex category.

• 1:03:56Sean Fennessey?

  Um, okay, let me see which is the right one to do.

• 1:04:00Bill Simmons?

  You can do two if you want.

• 1:04:03Sean Fennessey?

  So, to me, scene stealing location, the Den of Thieves Benihana Award is Terminal Bar. The bar that they go to, which was still open, I think it's finally gone now.

• 1:04:13Bill Simmons?

  The bar John Heard works in?

• 1:04:14Sean Fennessey?

  That John Heard is the bartender in, which was a bar you could go to downtown-

• 1:04:17Bill Simmons?

  It's a great bar.

• 1:04:18Sean Fennessey?

  It is gone, right? I don't, I was reading about it last night.

• 1:04:20Bill Simmons?

  I like how it's set up, it's like very, that hole, it's on the one side-

• 1:04:24Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, you walk in, the bar's on the right, but it's got the curve on the bar-

• 1:04:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, good for a movie scene.

• 1:04:28Sean Fennessey?

  And then you've got tables, yeah. I really love a bar like that, where it feels like you can get a cup of coffee and get a beer at the same time. That's kind of like my perfect bar experience. I don't want to be in a loud bar that is just like running vertically and everybody's standing and trying to budge in to get a drink. I want open space, want some tables, and I want to feel like it's never full.

• 1:04:46Bill Simmons?

  It looks like the Rocky I bar that they're-

• 1:04:49Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 1:04:49Bill Simmons?

  That they're all watching the fight in.

• 1:04:51Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 1:04:51Bill Simmons?

  It's the same kind of setup, though, the TV at the top and-

• 1:04:54Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, so that would be my scene stealing location.

• 1:04:56Bill Simmons?

  That's a good one. The Butch's Girlfriend Award for weak link of the film. Just walk home. It's 90 blocks.

• 1:05:05Sean Fennessey?

  This was my picking nit.

• 1:05:05Bill Simmons?

  They do it in an hour.

• 1:05:06Sean Fennessey?

  My picking nit is like, just leave. Just go.

• 1:05:09Bill Simmons?

  How about this, there's more than one subway stop. It's beyond a picking nit. It's like, oh, I couldn't get in that subway stop. Just walk two blocks and go to the next subway stop, and maybe that guy will let you leave for 50 cents.

• 1:05:20Sean Fennessey?

  Great point, I hadn't thought of that.

• 1:05:21Bill Simmons?

  There's subway stops every two blocks.

• 1:05:23Sean Fennessey?

  I also think, um, walking, even if it was considered dangerous-

• 1:05:30Sean Fennessey?

  You're being chased by an angry mob. Like, there's nothing more dangerous than people who want to put you in prison.

• 1:05:35Bill Simmons?

  It rains at some point, so maybe that's why you're not doing it, but.

• 1:05:38Sean Fennessey?

  Walking in the rain in New York City is a way of life.

• 1:05:40Bill Simmons?

  Hour fifteen?

• 1:05:42Sean Fennessey?

  Sure, yeah.

• 1:05:43Bill Simmons?

  And you can't get mugged because he doesn't have any money. Doesn't have anything. Nothing to take.

• 1:05:47Sean Fennessey?

  Just his, well, I mean, he doesn't have any dignity either because Marcy killed herself.

• 1:05:51Bill Simmons?

  Just go, go two blocks to the next subway. Just keep trying subway stops until somebody lets you in. Or you just hop over.

• 1:05:57Sean Fennessey?

  I'm with you.

• 1:05:59Bill Simmons?

  What's aged the worst? Griffin Dunn's unibrow is just bizarre in this movie. I don't really understand it.

• 1:06:04Sean Fennessey?

  I thought about putting that in the most nineteen eighty-five thing about it.

• 1:06:07Bill Simmons?

  I just don't get it.

• 1:06:07Sean Fennessey?

  Does he even have that in, um, uh, an American Werewolf in London? I don't know. It's a weird thing. Because he doesn't have it in future movies. Somebody is obviously like, Griffin, you got to take care of this. That has aged pretty bad. I have some other, I have a couple of other What's Aged The Worst.

• 1:06:22Bill Simmons?

  I had Soho as well, like that. It's What's Aged The Worst. It's aged the worst than that. I think Soho is more fun when it was like this.

• 1:06:28Sean Fennessey?

  Well.

• 1:06:29Bill Simmons?

  I miss weird.

• 1:06:29Sean Fennessey?

  You've clearly been knifed, never been knifed in Nally.

• 1:06:33Sean Fennessey?

  That's in play, I think, at that time.

• 1:06:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, okay.

• 1:06:37Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, the dumbasses who cancel Last Temptation of Christ, like, that's not ideal. You don't want to tell Martin Scorsese he can't make a cool movie. And actually, a lot of his career in this century is him, like, convincing people to give him a ton of money for movies. But here's the most important What's Aged The Worst for me. The name of this character is Paul Hackett. When I was a kid, Paul Hackett was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets. And he was one of the worst offensive coordinators in the NFL. And he was kind of my introduction to the Jets will never have a good offense. Which has been a characteristic of my life. Cut to twenty twenty-three. Aaron Rodgers. He's traded to the New York Jets. And who does he bring with him? Paul Hackett's son.

• 1:07:19Bill Simmons?

  Nate Hackett.

• 1:07:19Sean Fennessey?

  Nathaniel Hackett.

• 1:07:20Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:21Sean Fennessey?

  And I get that feeling all over again. And Nate Hackett, man, he just sucked at calling plays. And I can't get, so Paul Hackett, the character.

• 1:07:29Bill Simmons?

  You just hear the name.

• 1:07:30Sean Fennessey?

  It just kind of ruined. It's like, it's fucked up for me. I can't, I don't want to hear that name out loud.

• 1:07:36Bill Simmons?

  It's a really good one.

• 1:07:39Bill Simmons?

  The uh

• 1:07:42Bill Simmons?

  Ruffalo Hannah Rubenek Partridge over acting word. I'm gonna go Griffin Dunn here cuz he dials it up a couple of times.

• 1:07:49Sean Fennessey?

  He does.

• 1:07:49Bill Simmons?

  So he'd be my choice.

• 1:07:50Sean Fennessey?

  It's a manic movie.

• 1:07:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, there's a couple of times when he just gets mad at Marcy and I'm like, where'd that, why'd that come from?

• 1:07:57Sean Fennessey?

  We're sure it's not Will Patton?

• 1:07:59Bill Simmons?

  As Horst?

• 1:08:00Sean Fennessey?

  He's like the eyeliner and the tenor of his, the timbre of his voice and he's like, like what was Horst really gonna do?

• 1:08:08Bill Simmons?

  That's almost the underacting.

• 1:08:10Sean Fennessey?

  What are you gonna do, Horst? You're gonna, you're gonna kill this guy?

• 1:08:12Bill Simmons?

  What are you gonna do, Joey Horst?

• 1:08:14Sean Fennessey?

  Horst Lewis?

• 1:08:15Bill Simmons?

  Frederick Horst. Uh, the Sierra thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford hottest take a word. I have one.

• 1:08:24Sean Fennessey?

  I have three.

• 1:08:25Bill Simmons?

  You have three?

• 1:08:25Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:26Bill Simmons?

  Well, do two and I'll do one.

• 1:08:27Sean Fennessey?

  This is, this is a top three Scorsese movie of all time.

• 1:08:31Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:08:32Sean Fennessey?

  This, it's Goodfellas, King of Comedy in this movie and that leads directly to my second hot take, which is that his eighties are better than his nineties and maybe even better than his seventies.

• 1:08:42Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 1:08:44Sean Fennessey?

  This is, this is

• 1:08:45Bill Simmons?

  That's scorching hot.

• 1:08:46Sean Fennessey?

  This is a hot take category.

• 1:08:47Bill Simmons?

  You think that the eight, his eighties are better than his nineties?

• 1:08:50Sean Fennessey?

  Would you like me to read his eighties?

• 1:08:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:52Sean Fennessey?

  Raging Bull, The King of Comedy, After Hours, The Color of Money, The Last Temptation of Christ, plus Life Lessons. Five features, one short. His nineties, Goodfellas, Cape Fear, Age of Innocence, Casino, Kundun, Bringing Out the Dead. Now, Goodfellas is my favorite movie.

• 1:09:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but that's, that's pretty soft after the top two.

• 1:09:12Sean Fennessey?

  Seventies, Boxcar Bertha, Mean Streets, Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, Taxi Driver, New York, New York.

• 1:09:20Bill Simmons?

  Two thousands?

• 1:09:21Sean Fennessey?

  Two thousand is Gangs of New York, The Aviator, The Departed. Twenty teens, there are some people who could make the case that the twenty teens are his best. You wouldn't, but I might. Shutter Island, Hugo, Wolf of Wall Street, Silence, The Irishman.

• 1:09:36Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 1:09:37Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:09:37Bill Simmons?

  I think you're right.

• 1:09:39Sean Fennessey?

  Thank you.

• 1:09:39Bill Simmons?

  I think it is the eighties.

• 1:09:40Sean Fennessey?

  Thank you. What's yours?

• 1:09:45Bill Simmons?

  I don't know if this is a war crime, but it's a crime against humanity and a crime against pop culture and entertainment and fun. I don't know how Linda Fiorentino was never on The Sopranos.

• 1:09:57Sean Fennessey?

  Wow.

• 1:09:58Bill Simmons?

  I just can't believe David Chase fucked that up. And I have a great deal of respect for him. How did she not have a three to four episode arc with Tony Soprano? I think it would have been, maybe it was, it was too electric and too powerful and David Chase was worried that it could lead to some sort of world war.

• 1:10:17Sean Fennessey?

  It just feels like there can only be one situation with Annabella Ciora. Like Annabella Ciora as Gloria.

• 1:10:25Sean Fennessey?

  That's, that's in the Fiorentino zone.

• 1:10:27Bill Simmons?

  Could she have been a Soprano cousin that comes back?

• 1:10:31Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:31Bill Simmons?

  And used to tease Tony as a kid?

• 1:10:34Sean Fennessey?

  I like her as like, maybe like a, like a MILFier, uh,

• 1:10:37Bill Simmons?

  Or gets involved with Christopher?

• 1:10:39Sean Fennessey?

  Comes in with Christopher and kind of maybe like messes with Christopher.

• 1:10:42Bill Simmons?

  How is she not in The Sopranos universe? I just don't understand it.

• 1:10:45Sean Fennessey?

  Is Linda Fiorentino alive? Like I,

• 1:10:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, she's alive.

• 1:10:47Sean Fennessey?

  When was the last time she was in a movie?

• 1:10:49Bill Simmons?

  She's alive. Well, she was in Men in Black and Dogma.

• 1:10:51Sean Fennessey?

  Yep.

• 1:10:51Bill Simmons?

  In the late nineties. And Sopranos starts in 99.

• 1:10:55Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:10:55Bill Simmons?

  And there's six years there where she could have been in any, she could have been the next door neighbor. She could have been Jean Cusamano, whatever her name was.

• 1:11:04Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:04Bill Simmons?

  There's, it just could have, she could have been married to Artie Bucow, like I,

• 1:11:08Sean Fennessey?

  Hey.

• 1:11:08Bill Simmons?

  Could have gone, I know.

• 1:11:09Sean Fennessey?

  I forgot that, that woman, I forgot that woman's name, but she's, she's so odd.

• 1:11:12Bill Simmons?

  Just saying, I don't know how there wasn't a place for her somewhere. She could have done a one episode arc where she's just fucking with Tony and then Tony kills her. I don't know.

• 1:11:21Sean Fennessey?

  I always think about this, but like, okay, let's just game this out. Linda Fiorentino, after Dogma in 99, her last major starring role. She's in the following movies, Ordinary Decent Criminal, What Planet Are You From and Where the Money Is? Those are all studio movies. 2002, She Makes Liberty Stand Still.

• 1:11:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:37Sean Fennessey?

  And then Nothing for seven years.

• 1:11:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:39Sean Fennessey?

  She's in a movie called Once More With Feeling in 2009. And then Never Works Again.

• 1:11:45Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. I think maybe there was some, maybe there was some off the set baggage, who knows?

• 1:11:51Sean Fennessey?

  I get it, but here's an important question. How does this person make money? How is this person alive? I always think about this when you're like, you've been an actor since you're 19.

• 1:11:59Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:12:00Sean Fennessey?

  You work, you stop working.

• 1:12:02Bill Simmons?

  She invested, maybe she bought some like Apple stock.

• 1:12:04Sean Fennessey?

  Doesn't seem like she's married.

• 1:12:05Bill Simmons?

  Does she have questions?

• 1:12:08Sean Fennessey?

  Some questions, yeah.

• 1:12:09Bill Simmons?

  Should we get her on a podcast? Cause she hosts a podcast.

• 1:12:12Sean Fennessey?

  I don't know about that.

• 1:12:15Bill Simmons?

  It just felt like she could have had one to three episodes on The Sopranos.

• 1:12:18Sean Fennessey?

  I think it's a great take. What are you, when, when are you doing Jade?

• 1:12:21Bill Simmons?

  Never, that movie's awful. I saw that in the theater with Nikita, my buddy.

• 1:12:26Sean Fennessey?

  Okay. You made it sound like that, like he was a famous person.

• 1:12:29Bill Simmons?

  Well, it's just, he's one of my friends that you have to say both of his names.

• 1:12:32Sean Fennessey?

  Got it, okay, okay.

• 1:12:32Bill Simmons?

  We saw Color of Night and Jade in the theater.

• 1:12:36Sean Fennessey?

  Um, did you guys hold hands?

• 1:12:37Bill Simmons?

  No, it's just we go see weird movies together. Speaking of weird, the Mallory Rubin Award for did this movie need a better sex scene?

• 1:12:47Sean Fennessey?

  I think that's kind of the point.

• 1:12:49Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna say no.

• 1:12:49Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:50Bill Simmons?

  But you, you also could have talked me into a yes.

• 1:12:54Sean Fennessey?

  Just because of how you feel about Marcy?

• 1:12:56Bill Simmons?

  No, not with Marcy. I think the, I think the punk club, punk club could have gotten weird. Not, maybe not with horse, but something could have been going on in the sculpture place.

• 1:13:04Sean Fennessey?

  The bouncer?

• 1:13:07Bill Simmons?

  Bouncer.

• 1:13:07Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:13:09Bill Simmons?

  One more break and then we'll do casting whittens. This episode is brought to you by Trivia. Sweeteners are like movies, the best ones don't leave an aftertaste. That's why Trivia Allos Plus Stevia Sweetener and Monk Fruit Sweetener is a smooth, balanced tri blend that delivers sugar like sweetness with zero calories per serving and no aftertaste. If you're looking for a better way to enjoy sweetness with zero calories per serving, you really need to try Trivia Allos Plus Stevia Sweetener and Monk Fruit Sweetener. Available online and nationwide at Kroger, Target, and your favorite local grocery retailer.

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• 1:14:32Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by Searchlight Pictures Wild Horse 9. John Malkovich and Sam Rockwell. I like those guys. Star in the sharp-witted comedy thriller from Academy Award winner Martin McDonagh. Writer-director of The Banshees of Inisherin and Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri. Set in the 1970s, filmed on location on Easter Island, Malkovich and Rockwell play CIA agents Chris and Lee, who are caught in a dangerous game of secrets and survival. Also starring Steve Buscemi, another one of my guys. Parker Posey and Tom Waits. Wild Horse 9 is being hailed by critics as a revitalizing shot of pure entertainment and easily one of the best films of the year. Don't miss Wild Horse 9, only in theaters Friday. Get tickets now.

• 1:15:18Bill Simmons?

  All right, casting what-ifs. This was originally supposed to be directed by Tim Burton, and then Scorsese wanted to be involved, and he just stepped aside because he, uh, he said, "I respectfully withdraw. I will never stand in the way of Martin Scorsese wants to make a movie." And that's it.

• 1:15:33Sean Fennessey?

  So, this is a double casting what-ifs to me because Tim Burton doesn't make this movie, and in this same year, he goes on to make Peewee's Big Adventure, which is a huge movie for me personally, and would be an amazing, I'll step on the feature category, double feature with this movie. About a man-child thrust into a world he doesn't understand, seeking something he can't get, and eventually finding salvation by going back home.

• 1:16:03Bill Simmons?

  I don't know if that one's gonna be on the rewatchables anytime soon.

• 1:16:05Sean Fennessey?

  Peewee's Big Adventure?

• 1:16:07Bill Simmons?

  You might be, you might be hosting that one without me.

• 1:16:09Sean Fennessey?

  Wow, you don't like Peewee? You were too old.

• 1:16:11Bill Simmons?

  I was never, no, I was never a Peewee Herman guy. Some people are. I'm not against it. I don't judge.

• 1:16:16Sean Fennessey?

  I thought he was great. I mean, I was a kid when those movies came out, so the, having the Saturday morning show, the Peewee show was pretty big. But Tim Burton, Tim Burton was an all-time genius to me and then just stopped being a genius completely in 2000. Like, everything he did between 1985 and 2000, I loved. And then, kinda never again?

• 1:16:35Bill Simmons?

  I think his hair just got really heavy and it started impinging on his brain.

• 1:16:38Sean Fennessey?

  That's probably what it was.

• 1:16:39Bill Simmons?

  That was my theory.

• 1:16:40Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:16:42Bill Simmons?

  Uh, there's no real more casting what-ifs, except for they really had trouble casting the Linda Fiorentino part.

• 1:16:50Bill Simmons?

  And Griffin Dunn said, "Linda intimidated the shit out of Marty and me. She came in like she didn't give a damn whether or not she got the part, and it made her seem like Veronica Lake. Marty and I looked at each other and said, 'That's Kiki.'"

• 1:17:03Bill Simmons?

  Cause Griffin Dunn was one of the producers of this movie.

• 1:17:06Sean Fennessey?

  Do you wanna talk about that really quickly?

• 1:17:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Him and Amy Robinson owned a company.

• 1:17:11Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, so, well, on Fiorentino, in that conversation with Friendly but which I mentioned, the only person he uses the adjective "the great" in front of is Linda Fiorentino. And Scorsese very clearly is like, "The great Linda Fiorentino." And then he's just like, "Yeah, Rosanna Arquette, Griffin Dunn, these other people."

• 1:17:27Bill Simmons?

  Couldn't find a place in Goodfellas for her.

• 1:17:28Sean Fennessey?

  It's a good point. It's a good point. She, now that, that.

• 1:17:31Bill Simmons?

  Couldn't have found a place in Gomar for her. Yeah, she could've been a Gomar.

• 1:17:34Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Um, so Griffin Dunn and Amy Robinson, Amy Robinson was the female lead of Mean Streets in the 70s. And had worked with Scorsese over the years. And Griffin Dunn and Amy Robinson formed this production company, which I think is called Triple Play. And they start producing movies. They produced actually a lot of really good movies over the years. They make a Joan McLean Silver movie in 1982 called Chili Scenes of Winter, a very good movie. Then in 1983, they make a movie with John Sales called Baby It's You.

• 1:18:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:02Sean Fennessey?

  Starring Rosanna Arquette.

• 1:18:03Bill Simmons?

  And Vincent Spano.

• 1:18:04Sean Fennessey?

  Vincent Spano and shot.

• 1:18:06Bill Simmons?

  Never happened for him.

• 1:18:07Sean Fennessey?

  And shot by Michael Ballhaus.

• 1:18:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:08Sean Fennessey?

  And without that movie, we don't have after hours either. Because they bring Michael Ballhaus to Scorsese, they, I think Rosanna Arquette and their relationship, they all go together. And so, and they, they also produced, one year later, Running on Empty, the Sidney Lumet movie, um, with Judd Hirsch, about the family of, uh, 1968 rebels on the run.

• 1:18:29Bill Simmons?

  I don't like that movie.

• 1:18:30Sean Fennessey?

  Good movie. Yeah, pretty good movie. So they, they, they are like, really good producers, in addition to Griffin being a, kind of a movie star for a minute there.

• 1:18:36Bill Simmons?

  Well, and he also had, uh, he was the son of Dominic Dunn.

• 1:18:40Sean Fennessey?

  He was. His, his sister famously tragically murdered.

• 1:18:43Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, and then his sister was murdered. And that led to Dominic Dunn throwing himself in a true crime and led to, uh, the peak of him in the nineties, which I think was my number one,

• 1:18:56Bill Simmons?

  a magazine is coming out, I'm most excited to read this person moment. Like 94, 95, him writing about OJ was like the apex mountain for me for, I can't wait until this.

• 1:19:06Sean Fennessey?

  In Vanity Fair at that time. Yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:08Bill Simmons?

  It was like all that mattered.

• 1:19:09Sean Fennessey?

  He wrote amazing stories. Um, he's, he was a fascinating character.

• 1:19:12Bill Simmons?

  He really was. He had good books, too. I liked all of his books.

• 1:19:16Sean Fennessey?

  He's a really, really great writer and his, his aunt and uncle were, um, John Gregory Dunn and Joan Didion.

• 1:19:22Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, Joan Dunn.

• 1:19:22Sean Fennessey?

  And he has, Griffin Dunn has kind of become like, I don't know if he's an estate manager, but he's somebody who like helps shepherd a lot of the legacy of Didion and Dunn.

• 1:19:31Bill Simmons?

  Pops in, and pops in in some movies from time to time.

• 1:19:34Sean Fennessey?

  He still acts for sure, but while we're talking about movies, I just want to recommend to people haven't read a book called The Studio, that John Gregory Dunn wrote, that is about how a movie studio operates. It's one of the greatest, it's not a novel, it's a nonfiction book. It's one of the greatest books about Hollywood ever written. It's like a little underrated. And since we're in the Dunn universe, give it a shout.

• 1:19:53Bill Simmons?

  Best that guy word, is Griffin Dunn a that guy?

• 1:19:57Sean Fennessey?

  I don't think so.

• 1:19:58Bill Simmons?

  He's Griffin, I think Werewolf plus this, he makes him Griffin Dunn.

• 1:20:01Sean Fennessey?

  I agree. You put his name on top of the poster, you're kinda, you're good to go.

• 1:20:05Bill Simmons?

  Is, uh, horsed that guy?

• 1:20:07Sean Fennessey?

  Will? I don't think so. I, for the purposes of this show.

• 1:20:10Bill Simmons?

  Remember the Titans or No Way Out?

• 1:20:11Sean Fennessey?

  Yes. Oh, No Way Out. Yeah, that was kinda.

• 1:20:15Bill Simmons?

  What was Hackman's name?

• 1:20:18Bill Simmons?

  And he was like, huh?

• 1:20:20Sean Fennessey?

  I don't remember.

• 1:20:21Bill Simmons?

  At the end, when he's about to kill himself?

• 1:20:23Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, yeah. Horse is kind of a warm up for the crazy assistant to the Secretary of Defense in No Way Out. Is he Secretary of Defense in that movie? He is, right?

• 1:20:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. He's also a classic, you didn't have any hair and now you have a full head of hair actor. Always enjoy those.

• 1:20:39Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, he's a very reliable.

• 1:20:41Bill Simmons?

  He was in Armageddon or one of those?

• 1:20:43Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, he's in Armageddon.

• 1:20:44Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:44Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, he's in, he's like in, constantly on TV. Is he in the Taylor Sheridan universe now? Will Patton?

• 1:20:49Bill Simmons?

  He's, I always liked seeing him.

• 1:20:51Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, he's a great actor, really good actor.

• 1:20:52Bill Simmons?

  I feel like he market corrected Terry Kinney a little bit.

• 1:20:54Sean Fennessey?

  Oh.

• 1:20:55Bill Simmons?

  They were head to head there for a while.

• 1:20:56Sean Fennessey?

  When's the Oz rewatch pod?

• 1:20:58Bill Simmons?

  Whenever you want.

• 1:20:59Sean Fennessey?

  Emerald City?

• 1:20:59Bill Simmons?

  Van is watching him right now, getting ready.

• 1:21:01Sean Fennessey?

  Emerald City. Uh, my that guys were Dick Miller, Victor Argo and Larry Block, who is the taxi driver.

• 1:21:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, those, I mean, those are literally that guys.

• 1:21:08Sean Fennessey?

  Old school that guys.

• 1:21:09Bill Simmons?

  Dionne Waiters award, what a category. Terry Gar, Catherine O'Hara, Linda Fiorentino, uh, Will Patton, Verna Bloom and Cheech and Chong. It's about as good of a Dionne Waiters as it's gonna get.

• 1:21:20Sean Fennessey?

  I also had John Heard.

• 1:21:21Bill Simmons?

  And John Heard.

• 1:21:22Sean Fennessey?

  Speaking of the Sopranos, legendary Sopranos player.

• 1:21:26Bill Simmons?

  I have, uh, Fiorentino winning.

• 1:21:28Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, I'll, I'll roll with that.

• 1:21:29Bill Simmons?

  But she's just out of control. I don't know what she's doing in this movie, but it's captivating.

• 1:21:35Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, another like, how do you make money person? I guess she's selling those plaster of Paris bagels.

• 1:21:40Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:41Sean Fennessey?

  You got one of those?

• 1:21:41Bill Simmons?

  I don't. Recasting couch director city. So let's have the Griffin Dunn conversation right here.

• 1:21:49Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:21:49Bill Simmons?

  This is the best we could do in 1985 as a lead actor.

• 1:21:52Sean Fennessey?

  He produced the movie.

• 1:21:53Bill Simmons?

  I get it. Can I offer you Tom Hanks?

• 1:21:57Sean Fennessey?

  You can.

• 1:21:58Bill Simmons?

  Can I offer you as Tom Hanks as the answer of Cruz or Hanks?

• 1:22:02Sean Fennessey?

  You can.

• 1:22:02Bill Simmons?

  Hanks wins.

• 1:22:03Sean Fennessey?

  I accept.

• 1:22:03Bill Simmons?

  Can I offer you 1985, right out of splash, about to make a bunch of weird movies before his 1990 and does League of Their Own in his career and becomes Tom Hanks? I think this would have been a really good Tom Hanks movie. It's perfect. Cause Tom Hanks isn't like really a horny guy necessarily. So watching him try to awkwardly get laid, I think he could have been. I think there's comic timing with him that would have been better. I just think it's a better movie.

• 1:22:30Sean Fennessey?

  I don't think Tom Hanks is very kooky.

• 1:22:34Bill Simmons?

  Did you see Punchline?

• 1:22:36Sean Fennessey?

  That's a good point. That's one of the very few times where it feels like inside of Tom Hanks is chaos.

• 1:22:43Bill Simmons?

  Can I offer you Michael Keaton?

• 1:22:45Sean Fennessey?

  Now, that is amazing. That would be amazing.

• 1:22:48Bill Simmons?

  Is he too horny or like too?

• 1:22:50Sean Fennessey?

  No, that would have been great.

• 1:22:51Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:22:52Sean Fennessey?

  That, I think that's better.

• 1:22:53Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:22:54Sean Fennessey?

  Um.

• 1:22:54Bill Simmons?

  Michael Keaton, so coming up Night Shift, he's done, uh, Gung Ho and Mr. Mom. He's about to do Johnny Dangerously, maybe?

• 1:23:02Sean Fennessey?

  No, Johnny Dangerously is right before, cause Griffin Dunn is in Johnny Dangerously. They play brothers in that, in Johnny Dangerously.

• 1:23:09Bill Simmons?

  It's better with Michael Keaton. It's better with either of them, but yeah, Keaton's better.

• 1:23:12Sean Fennessey?

  I love Griffin Dunn in this movie. There's not a lot about this movie I would change. Like I said, it's a huge favorite of mine, but Michael Keaton does have that like, I just blew a line energy.

• 1:23:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:21Sean Fennessey?

  And he would be really good. You know what it could have been? I'm not saying I would have liked this, but would have made, would have made a little bit of sense is Steve Guttenberg.

• 1:23:29Bill Simmons?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:23:30Sean Fennessey?

  You know, like he was like the right kind of actor.

• 1:23:33Bill Simmons?

  How about Andrew McCarthy?

• 1:23:35Sean Fennessey?

  A little young.

• 1:23:37Bill Simmons?

  Um, maybe four years later. I actually had some, if they made this movie in different years, who the perfect person would have been.

• 1:23:44Sean Fennessey?

  What about Judge Reinhold?

• 1:23:47Bill Simmons?

  Judge Reinhold? Well, so 1990 John Cusack.

• 1:23:52Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:52Bill Simmons?

  He's clearly in it.

• 1:23:53Sean Fennessey?

  A few years later, yeah.

• 1:23:54Bill Simmons?

  1996, 97 range, Josh Hamilton.

• 1:23:58Sean Fennessey?

  Sure. A hundred percent. Yeah. Any of the Noah Baumbach players would have been good.

• 1:24:02Bill Simmons?

  Oh, four, oh, five range. I think we get Phil Hoffman.

• 1:24:06Sean Fennessey?

  Okay. I, I mean, I have Phil Hoffman as an answer to a category here. I would have had him as Tom Shore, the bartender in this movie.

• 1:24:14Bill Simmons?

  2010, 11 range, Jesse Eisenberg.

• 1:24:17Sean Fennessey?

  You did, you made all these notes?

• 1:24:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:19Sean Fennessey?

  Wow. Should we remake After Hours with Eisenberg?

• 1:24:23Bill Simmons?

  Hater is somewhere in here. I think this is a great Bill Hader movie. I don't know exactly what point of his career. He's gotta be a little younger.

• 1:24:30Sean Fennessey?

  Bill must love this movie.

• 1:24:31Bill Simmons?

  I'm sure. But couldn't you say Hater in this movie?

• 1:24:34Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, but he got started a little bit later, I feel like, as a star.

• 1:24:37Bill Simmons?

  2013, 14 range?

• 1:24:40Sean Fennessey?

  Sure.

• 1:24:42Bill Simmons?

  And then I couldn't come up with now. I was thinking Shalhoub, but he's probably too handsome.

• 1:24:47Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm. Too much of a hard time.

• 1:24:48Bill Simmons?

  But it's the kind of movie that would be interesting if he made it.

• 1:24:50Sean Fennessey?

  You know who it should be?

• 1:24:50Bill Simmons?

  Who?

• 1:24:51Sean Fennessey?

  Cooper Hoffman.

• 1:24:53Bill Simmons?

  Cooper Hoffman.

• 1:24:57Bill Simmons?

  Love that guy. That's a good one.

• 1:24:58Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:59Bill Simmons?

  He might still be too young. I think he's like 22. That's a good one, though.

• 1:25:02Sean Fennessey?

  How old was Griffin Dunn when he made this? Probably in his like 30s.

• 1:25:06Bill Simmons?

  20s, early 30s.

• 1:25:07Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, okay.

• 1:25:08Bill Simmons?

  Half-Assed Internet Research. One of Scorsese's contributions involved the dialogue between Paul and the doorman at Club Berlin, which was inspired by Franz Kafka's Before the Law. And Scorsese said the short story reflected his frustration toward the production of The Last Temptation of Christ. Marty.

• 1:25:28Sean Fennessey?

  Put yourself in the movie.

• 1:25:29Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:29Sean Fennessey?

  That's why when you see Pauline Kael saying like, this is like impersonal or whatever, it's like, it's all him.

• 1:25:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:37Bill Simmons?

  Rosanna Arquette said, "A lot of the people involved in After Hours were regulars at the New York bar and restaurant Cafe Central."

• 1:25:45Bill Simmons?

  They would gather there, drink, be merry. A lot of artists, Griffin Dunn and Amy were there all the time. De Niro and Christopher Walken were always in. Bruce Willis was the bartender.

• 1:25:58Sean Fennessey?

  Whoa.

• 1:26:01Sean Fennessey?

  He has bartender energy.

• 1:26:03Bill Simmons?

  Griffin Dunn said, "We partied hard at Cafe Central. Incredible place. The biggest movie stars in the world hung out there. Not one paparazzi knew about it."

• 1:26:12Sean Fennessey?

  Okay. Cafe Central.

• 1:26:15Bill Simmons?

  This is the John Heard. This is all from the oral history that I think Airmail did, so he can read it.

• 1:26:22Bill Simmons?

  Griffin Dunn and Amy wanted-

• 1:26:23Sean Fennessey?

  Are you an Airmail subscriber?

• 1:26:24Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 1:26:24Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:26:26Bill Simmons?

  They wanted to cast John Heard. Marty said, "I think he's incredibly talented, but I'm a little worried. He's got a reckless reputation," which he did. "John was quite a carouser." Then they convinced him to do it.

• 1:26:38Sean Fennessey?

  He's-

• 1:26:39Bill Simmons?

  John Heard, getting it done in the 80s.

• 1:26:41Sean Fennessey?

  He's one of those guys who like, isn't really like that handsome?

• 1:26:45Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I think of him in Big, trying to play handball with Josh Baskin.

• 1:26:50Sean Fennessey?

  He's in Chili Scenes of Winter, the other Griffin Dunn, Amy Robinson movie. Obviously, he's in Home Alone and I'm always happy to see him.

• 1:27:00Bill Simmons?

  Me too.

• 1:27:01Sean Fennessey?

  But he just like, looks like one of my dad's friends.

• 1:27:03Bill Simmons?

  He did get Sopranos run, and then I think he died.

• 1:27:06Sean Fennessey?

  He did. He did. He was a really, really good actor.

• 1:27:09Bill Simmons?

  They had to, um, they had to cheat with Soho because it was already getting gentrified when they were making the film, so they had to do some Chinatown, Little Italy, and Tribeca to patch it together.

• 1:27:19Sean Fennessey?

  I was wondering about that, if it was already too late to make it seem like it was this dangerous place.

• 1:27:25Bill Simmons?

  My last two things are just from research because I was fascinated on all the people that are in this movie.

• 1:27:29Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:27:31Bill Simmons?

  Griffin Dunn, best friends since childhood with Carrie Fisher?

• 1:27:35Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:27:35Bill Simmons?

  And then in the documentary Bright Lights, the two of them reminisced about when he took her virginity because she considered it a burden. And as an act of friendship in London in the early 70s, they decided to have sex so she wouldn't be a virgin anymore. That's on the internet.

• 1:27:54Sean Fennessey?

  That's must have been very exciting.

• 1:27:56Bill Simmons?

  I didn't expect to have a reaction.

• 1:27:57Sean Fennessey?

  That must have been very exciting for him.

• 1:27:59Bill Simmons?

  Linda Fiorentino had a relationship with Anthony Pelicano

• 1:28:06Bill Simmons?

  in the period leading to his 2008 trial and conviction.

• 1:28:09Sean Fennessey?

  Wait, what happened? You didn't know about the McTiernan thing? Did this come up in DH4V?

• 1:28:13Bill Simmons?

  I just forgot, yeah.

• 1:28:13Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, yeah, that was like, what the hell, man?

• 1:28:16Bill Simmons?

  Pelicano is being investigated. Linda Fiorentino started dating a former FBI agent, Mark Rassini.

• 1:28:25Bill Simmons?

  Law enforcement agents said this was her attempt to assist Pelicano with information.

• 1:28:31Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:28:32Bill Simmons?

  Fiorentino said, told Rassini, as they were getting involved, she was researching a screenplay based on Pelicano's case. He then gave her searches of government computers for information to Fiorentino, who then gave the files to Pelicano's lawyer in a failed effort to help him avoid going to jail for 15 years. And then Rassini had to plead guilty as well. So she was in two relationships with two guys who went to jail. That might be part of the reason she's not acting a lot.

• 1:29:03Sean Fennessey?

  I did not know this.

• 1:29:05Bill Simmons?

  I don't, just guessing.

• 1:29:07Sean Fennessey?

  That is shocking.

• 1:29:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Apex Mountain.

• 1:29:13Sean Fennessey?

  Wait, she dated an FBI agent to get things from him to help her boyfriend who was under investigation by the FBI?

• 1:29:19Bill Simmons?

  He was able then to get.

• 1:29:20Sean Fennessey?

  That's a movie.

• 1:29:22Bill Simmons?

  That's.

• 1:29:23Sean Fennessey?

  Your girl, Linda.

• 1:29:26Bill Simmons?

  I feel like she could have gone three episodes with Tony Soprano.

• 1:29:29Sean Fennessey?

  I'll bet.

• 1:29:29Bill Simmons?

  They could have figured it out.

• 1:29:30Sean Fennessey?

  I think so, too.

• 1:29:32Bill Simmons?

  Apex Mountain, Griffin Dunn, I'm gonna say yes.

• 1:29:35Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, without question.

• 1:29:37Bill Simmons?

  Rosanna Arquette, 100% 1985, yes.

• 1:29:39Sean Fennessey?

  Without question.

• 1:29:40Bill Simmons?

  Hard cap, all caps, yes.

• 1:29:42Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 1:29:42Bill Simmons?

  Linda Fiorentino, Last Seduction, 1994, which she should have got nominated for an Oscar, but they had released it on HBO first.

• 1:29:49Sean Fennessey?

  She's incredible in The Last Seduction, but probably Men in Black. I mean, Men in Black was a massive success, bigger than any other movie she'd ever been a part of, and she was the star.

• 1:29:58Bill Simmons?

  Can I make the case for Last Seduction?

• 1:30:00Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 1:30:01Bill Simmons?

  Do you know this whole thing about how she should have won the Oscar that year?

• 1:30:05Sean Fennessey?

  I feel like we've talked about it before.

• 1:30:06Bill Simmons?

  Do it. They couldn't sell, they couldn't get the movie funded to be in theaters, so they sold it to HBO.

• 1:30:14Sean Fennessey?

  Right.

• 1:30:14Bill Simmons?

  It ran on HBO for a couple of weeks, and then the movie gained steam, and they did this whole, they started, and they basically did the movie red carpet thing with it, and she started winning all of these awards.

• 1:30:25Sean Fennessey?

  But it was ruled ineligible.

• 1:30:26Bill Simmons?

  Critics' Choice, whatever, but they were like, it can't, it was on TV first, you're not eligible, and that was the year Jessica Lange won for Blue Sky, which had been made four years earlier.

• 1:30:34Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:30:35Bill Simmons?

  And then, like, that was Jodie Foster, now.

• 1:30:38Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:30:43Bill Simmons?

  But it's just like, it's like a particularly awful best actress category.

• 1:30:47Sean Fennessey?

  Miranda Richardson in Tom and Viv, Winona Ryder in Little Women, and show some respect to Susan Sarandon in The Client, my beloved Reggie Love. That's weird, that's interesting, she could have won.

• 1:30:58Bill Simmons?

  I think she wins. So if she wins in 1994.

• 1:31:01Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:31:03Bill Simmons?

  She's a massive star.

• 1:31:05Sean Fennessey?

  This is just an extraordinary amount of time spent on Linda Fiorentino in this pod.

• 1:31:08Bill Simmons?

  Thank you, I did a lot of, I did a lot of research. Henry Miller, Apex Mountain, probably not.

• 1:31:13Sean Fennessey?

  I would say no, maybe The Publication of Tropic of Cancer.

• 1:31:16Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. John Heard?

• 1:31:19Sean Fennessey?

  I think Home Alone.

• 1:31:22Bill Simmons?

  I think he was Cutter's Way was he was leading with somebody.

• 1:31:24Sean Fennessey?

  Yo, thank you for bringing that up. That movie is amazing.

• 1:31:27Bill Simmons?

  It's good.

• 1:31:27Sean Fennessey?

  He plays a Vietnam vet with an eye patch.

• 1:31:29Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:30Sean Fennessey?

  In a wheelchair and he is crazy in that movie. Thank you for bringing that up.

• 1:31:35Bill Simmons?

  Cheech and Chong? Probably not. It's probably somewhere late seventies.

• 1:31:38Sean Fennessey?

  Up in Smoke for sure.

• 1:31:41Bill Simmons?

  Cheech and Chong, hard to explain all these years later.

• 1:31:43Sean Fennessey?

  You know.

• 1:31:44Bill Simmons?

  Cause I think they just on YouTube though.

• 1:31:47Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. You mean like how they hit?

• 1:31:49Bill Simmons?

  No, just like it's just very specific to an era that now they would just be guys. They'd be huge influencers. They'd probably have a billion dollar empire. It'd be like Cheech and Chong just did a one million, one billion dollar deal with Amazon.

• 1:32:01Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, they're kind of the Mr. Beast of their time.

• 1:32:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:04Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:05Bill Simmons?

  Late night New York City movies.

• 1:32:07Sean Fennessey?

  I have a whole list.

• 1:32:09Bill Simmons?

  This is the best one.

• 1:32:11Sean Fennessey?

  So.

• 1:32:14Sean Fennessey?

  I think The Warriors is superior because it covers more ground.

• 1:32:18Bill Simmons?

  Hmm.

• 1:32:19Sean Fennessey?

  It captures more of the city.

• 1:32:20Bill Simmons?

  More of the city.

• 1:32:21Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:21Bill Simmons?

  So the.

• 1:32:22Sean Fennessey?

  The Warriors would be number one.

• 1:32:23Bill Simmons?

  Coney Island, you're, you're all over the place.

• 1:32:26Sean Fennessey?

  This is very close behind, but in addition to that, I think Taxi Driver is certainly in the conversation. Twenty fifth hour. Saturday Night Fever.

• 1:32:34Bill Simmons?

  Is Twenty Fifth Hour a late night New York City movie?

• 1:32:36Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, the club. When they're in the club for like 40 minutes.

• 1:32:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you're right.

• 1:32:40Sean Fennessey?

  Cruising. And they're in the diner when, when, when Barry Pepper and.

• 1:32:43Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:43Sean Fennessey?

  Hop and go out to the diner. Ghostbusters?

• 1:32:46Bill Simmons?

  Hmm.

• 1:32:47Sean Fennessey?

  Right? I mean, the whole third act is at night. American Psycho?

• 1:32:50Bill Simmons?

  Cruising?

• 1:32:51Sean Fennessey?

  Cruising for sure.

• 1:32:52Bill Simmons?

  For sure. American Psycho is a good one.

• 1:32:55Sean Fennessey?

  Um, I mean, Good Time and Uncut Gems.

• 1:32:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:58Sean Fennessey?

  Uncut Gems, I mean, could a movie owe more of a debt to After Hours than Uncut Gems? They're, they're.

• 1:33:03Bill Simmons?

  I was trying to think of the movies that probably were the most influenced by it and it's a long list. One of the ones I think is Go.

• 1:33:09Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, definitely.

• 1:33:10Bill Simmons?

  Where they were just like, let's make mid, late nineties Go and just put a bunch of weird actors with weird cameos and um, it's basically they should have paid royalties to Source Izzy.

• 1:33:19Sean Fennessey?

  Bright Lights, Big City is a big one from this era too.

• 1:33:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:22Sean Fennessey?

  Um, which I feel like people don't talk about that anymore. And then just like every Lumet film.

• 1:33:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:26Sean Fennessey?

  Except for Dog Day Afternoon because it only takes place during the day.

• 1:33:28Bill Simmons?

  Good list.

• 1:33:29Sean Fennessey?

  Thank you.

• 1:33:31Bill Simmons?

  Apex Mountain for plaster?

• 1:33:35Sean Fennessey?

  Sure. The answer is yes.

• 1:33:37Bill Simmons?

  Terry Gard, it's no, because I think it's probably Tootsie era, but we're still.

• 1:33:43Sean Fennessey?

  She was Oscar nominated for Tootsie, right?

• 1:33:45Bill Simmons?

  Still on the mountain.

• 1:33:45Sean Fennessey?

  Yep.

• 1:33:46Bill Simmons?

  And then.

• 1:33:47Sean Fennessey?

  What about Mom and Dad Save the World with John Lovitz and Terry Gard?

• 1:33:51Bill Simmons?

  I think that she was off the mountain at that point.

• 1:33:52Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:33:53Bill Simmons?

  Soho. No.

• 1:33:57Sean Fennessey?

  What is Apex Mountain for Soho?

• 1:33:59Bill Simmons?

  It's somewhere in the last 15 years.

• 1:34:02Sean Fennessey?

  Basquiat painting masterpieces five years earlier?

• 1:34:05Bill Simmons?

  That's pretty good.

• 1:34:06Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:34:08Bill Simmons?

  Scorsese or Spielberg? Yes. I love when we, when we have that organically.

• 1:34:14Sean Fennessey?

  Here's the thing. Steve doesn't have the juice to get into this energy. He could never get to this place.

• 1:34:18Bill Simmons?

  He wouldn't know what, he wouldn't know how to direct Linda Fiorentino.

• 1:34:22Sean Fennessey?

  He definitely did not. He had no idea.

• 1:34:24Bill Simmons?

  This is our eighth Scorsese rewatchable.

• 1:34:26Sean Fennessey?

  I was gonna ask you that. How many has Steve had?

• 1:34:28Bill Simmons?

  One back.

• 1:34:29Sean Fennessey?

  Spielberg has had how many?

• 1:34:33Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna say seven. Hold on, I can find that.

• 1:34:35Sean Fennessey?

  Jaws, Close Encounters.

• 1:34:37Bill Simmons?

  E.T.

• 1:34:38Sean Fennessey?

  E.T. Minority Report.

• 1:34:42Bill Simmons?

  Oh, Spielberg's had nine.

• 1:34:43Sean Fennessey?

  Nine.

• 1:34:44Bill Simmons?

  So Michael Mann, Tony Scott, Spielberg, all at nine. Scorsese at eight. Fincher at seven. That's our top, that's our top five.

• 1:34:53Sean Fennessey?

  Are you done with Fincher?

• 1:34:54Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 1:34:56Bill Simmons?

  God, no.

• 1:34:57Sean Fennessey?

  Would you ever do Girl with a Dragon Tattoo?

• 1:35:00Bill Simmons?

  I don't like that movie.

• 1:35:00Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:35:01Bill Simmons?

  Do you like it?

• 1:35:02Sean Fennessey?

  It's been one of the biggest growers in my life in the last 10 years.

• 1:35:05Bill Simmons?

  Do I need to watch it?

• 1:35:05Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I think it's like incredible and I didn't realize it at the time.

• 1:35:09Bill Simmons?

  I don't, I think I might not like it for the wrong reasons because I don't like, I really liked Rooney Mara and I think that the movie just made, sent her career in a weird direction and I want to redo it.

• 1:35:19Sean Fennessey?

  I think she's an unusual person.

• 1:35:21Bill Simmons?

  Maybe. It was good to see Kate in Friendship, though. Great to see her working in a good movie.

• 1:35:28Sean Fennessey?

  As you know, she matters to me.

• 1:35:29Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:31Sean Fennessey?

  Do you like Friendship? What'd you make of that? I don't think we've ever talked Tim Robinson.

• 1:35:36Bill Simmons?

  I really liked it. My daughter, my daughter absolutely loved it.

• 1:35:40Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, great.

• 1:35:41Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. And my wife was uncomfortable and complaining about it most of the time, but still liked it.

• 1:35:45Sean Fennessey?

  Not surprising.

• 1:35:47Bill Simmons?

  It's, it's good.

• 1:35:48Sean Fennessey?

  It is really funny.

• 1:35:49Bill Simmons?

  It's really good. I, I thought people got a little carried away with how good it was, but I thought it was really good.

• 1:35:54Sean Fennessey?

  I didn't think it was the funniest movie of the last 15 years, but I was happy to have a comedy with Tim Robinson in movie theaters. Yeah.

• 1:36:00Bill Simmons?

  What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played? So you said the bartender.

• 1:36:04Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, Tom.

• 1:36:05Bill Simmons?

  Could talk me into the lead at certain points in his career.

• 1:36:07Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:36:09Bill Simmons?

  Pick a Nits.

• 1:36:11Bill Simmons?

  Not sure why he flips on Marcy and makes her cry. Never understood that. He just gets mad and I just don't get it. It's a weird plot device.

• 1:36:20Sean Fennessey?

  I think it's because he realizes that he doesn't. He's afraid of sleeping with a burn victim and is trying to get out of there.

• 1:36:28Bill Simmons?

  Oh, so it's a, yeah.

• 1:36:31Bill Simmons?

  Couldn't he walk to another subway station? And then why did, why did Marcy actually kill herself was a weird one.

• 1:36:37Sean Fennessey?

  The thing I.

• 1:36:38Bill Simmons?

  It's the weirdest part of this movie.

• 1:36:40Sean Fennessey?

  I wrote down what was wrong with Marcy.

• 1:36:44Sean Fennessey?

  The thing I do think is clever is that she overdoses on Secanol, which is what Judy Garland overdosed on.

• 1:36:50Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 1:36:50Sean Fennessey?

  And she, of course, was the star of The Wizard of Oz. And so there's meant to be some symmetry there.

• 1:36:57Bill Simmons?

  You have any other pick a Nits? We covered a lot.

• 1:36:59Sean Fennessey?

  The biggest one was just, why don't you just walk home?

• 1:37:01Bill Simmons?

  Sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all black cast are untouchable.

• 1:37:06Bill Simmons?

  There's a prestige TV possibility where each episode is almost like 24. It's after hours, but it's 24 and it's 10 hours and one episode for each hour. It's not against it.

• 1:37:17Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:18Bill Simmons?

  It's ambitious.

• 1:37:19Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, but would it be Kiefer Sutherland?

• 1:37:23Bill Simmons?

  Be his son. Is this movie better than Wayne Jenkins, Danny Treddor, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson, now Byron Mayo, Barney Cousins, Tony Roma, Harley Mays, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Long Legs, or Wilford Brimley in The Firm?

• 1:37:36Bill Simmons?

  Honestly, Sam Jackson being in this movie would have been great.

• 1:37:39Sean Fennessey?

  Interesting.

• 1:37:40Bill Simmons?

  I think this movie is a Sam Jackson short.

• 1:37:43Sean Fennessey?

  Well, who would he be? Well, not horse, probably.

• 1:37:45Bill Simmons?

  He's in the bar and he's just flipping out on somebody.

• 1:37:48Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:37:49Bill Simmons?

  But just, just two minutes of Sam, 80s crazy Sam Jackson.

• 1:37:53Sean Fennessey?

  This make English in what?

• 1:37:55Bill Simmons?

  Right. Just him going, him just being Sam Jackson, just bringing crazy energy. Maybe he's in the vigilante mob.

• 1:38:02Sean Fennessey?

  I'd love to have Jules just in this movie. Jules Winfield, that would be great.

• 1:38:07Bill Simmons?

  Just want to ask her who gets it. I'm going with the editing.

• 1:38:11Sean Fennessey?

  Oh.

• 1:38:11Bill Simmons?

  And our girl Thelma Schoonmaker.

• 1:38:13Sean Fennessey?

  Good.

• 1:38:14Bill Simmons?

  Makker maker?

• 1:38:14Sean Fennessey?

  Maker, yeah.

• 1:38:15Bill Simmons?

  Thelma Schoonmaker.

• 1:38:17Sean Fennessey?

  You know, we haven't mentioned that Michael.

• 1:38:18Bill Simmons?

  Interesting name.

• 1:38:18Sean Fennessey?

  Michael Powell is a pretty important person in this movie. Legendary British filmmaker who had been kind of cast out of filmmaking in the 70s and 80s, but became a huge mentor to Scorsese at this time and married Thelma Schoonmaker right before this movie, I think, or maybe right after. And he was one of the people who helped him figure out the ending. Helped him determine the tone. And if you haven't seen any Michael Powell movies, Black Narcissus, Life and Death of Colonel Blimp, Matter of Life and Death, like some of the greatest British films ever made. But he similarly experienced this kind of like limbo, this exile that Scorsese felt. So they like had a real kinship together. And also clearly Thelma and Powell, like, they helped Scorsese a lot.

• 1:39:03Bill Simmons?

  Hmm.

• 1:39:06Bill Simmons?

  Probably an answerable questions. You have any? Cause I have, I have two.

• 1:39:11Sean Fennessey?

  Um, I think I was just trying to understand what this guy's job is. Like, I know he's a word processor, but what does that mean?

• 1:39:20Bill Simmons?

  I don't think we're supposed to know.

• 1:39:22Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:39:22Bill Simmons?

  I think it's like ambiguous, weird office job.

• 1:39:25Sean Fennessey?

  So an unanswerable question.

• 1:39:26Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. I have two. The timeline of this movie. What time does he land back in front of his office? What time is it?

• 1:39:36Bill Simmons?

  Here's what we know. He leaves his house at 11:30. He arrives at Marcy's around 12:15. At 1:35 in the morning, Marcy says she needs to take a shower. Then we see a clock when he's leaving Terry Gar's place at 4:10.

• 1:39:53Bill Simmons?

  When he goes to the diner, you can see the clock.

• 1:39:55Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:39:56Bill Simmons?

  It's 4:10.

• 1:39:57Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:39:58Bill Simmons?

  How many hours after that happened? Like three? And it's as they're driving the van, the sun's coming up. But we don't know what time of year it is. This is probably 6:30 range. So has he landed his office at seven?

• 1:40:11Sean Fennessey?

  The number one giveaway is that someone is vacuuming in the office when he gets there.

• 1:40:16Bill Simmons?

  So it's 6:30 in the morning?

• 1:40:17Sean Fennessey?

  So what, what is that shift to clean? First of all, who cleans the office in the morning? Shouldn't it be at night when you clean the office?

• 1:40:25Bill Simmons?

  They're finishing it. Cause you can see when, when Cheech and Chong are driving, you can see the sun's coming up.

• 1:40:30Sean Fennessey?

  Right, right, right before those gates.

• 1:40:32Bill Simmons?

  6:30 range?

• 1:40:33Sean Fennessey?

  I didn't mention him exiting those gates is one of my great shock gourds too.

• 1:40:37Bill Simmons?

  So I'm going to say he gets there, this is seven hours round trip.

• 1:40:41Sean Fennessey?

  Okay. Seven hours of it. He's there at 6:30.

• 1:40:44Bill Simmons?

  Shows up at Marcy's at 12:15. Maybe he's in, back in the office at 7:15, not, not having slept.

• 1:40:52Sean Fennessey?

  I think you answered the unanswerable question. I got another one.

• 1:40:54Bill Simmons?

  It's not unanswerable though.

• 1:40:57Sean Fennessey?

  Did he finish reading Tropic for Cancer?

• 1:41:00Bill Simmons?

  In jail. Cause that was my other unanswerable question. Does he just get arrested four hours later?

• 1:41:05Sean Fennessey?

  They could find him.

• 1:41:05Bill Simmons?

  This guy came, his name was Paul Hackett. And he left and he ran away from the thing and now Marcy's dead and it was his fault.

• 1:41:12Sean Fennessey?

  They definitely could find him.

• 1:41:13Bill Simmons?

  And he might've shot somebody too.

• 1:41:16Sean Fennessey?

  He didn't do anything wrong.

• 1:41:17Bill Simmons?

  I think, I think he's at least on trial. And Dominic Dunn's covering it.

• 1:41:23Bill Simmons?

  What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie? The Mr. Softy truck would be pretty cool. I don't know where you put it.

• 1:41:30Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I don't really have that kind of space.

• 1:41:32Bill Simmons?

  Plaster bill?

• 1:41:33Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I think the, I think the plaster Paris bagel is probably my go to.

• 1:41:38Bill Simmons?

  That's a good one. Coach Finstock Award, best life lesson. Nothing good happens after 2 AM?

• 1:41:45Sean Fennessey?

  Perfect, perfect.

• 1:41:47Bill Simmons?

  Don't chase the night. Best double feature choice. So you have, what did you have?

• 1:41:54Sean Fennessey?

  Well.

• 1:41:55Bill Simmons?

  You had Peewee.

• 1:41:56Sean Fennessey?

  I have a bunch.

• 1:41:58Bill Simmons?

  Goodfellas is in the mix.

• 1:41:59Sean Fennessey?

  Peewee, Into the Night, the John Lennon movie.

• 1:42:02Bill Simmons?

  So that was my choice.

• 1:42:03Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, I'll let you talk about that.

• 1:42:04Bill Simmons?

  Which is weirdly like, they, they think it's a ripoff of, but they're making them at the same time.

• 1:42:09Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I don't think it's a ripoff.

• 1:42:10Bill Simmons?

  I don't even know which one came out first.

• 1:42:12Sean Fennessey?

  In LA.

• 1:42:12Bill Simmons?

  It's basically LA.

• 1:42:14Sean Fennessey?

  LA, yeah, for hours.

• 1:42:15Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Ends up in Malibu.

• 1:42:16Sean Fennessey?

  Uncut Gems.

• 1:42:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:18Sean Fennessey?

  Another nighttime Scorsese movie, Bringing Out the Dead. It's a little underrated, Nick Cage as an ambulance driver. Game Night and The Purge.

• 1:42:28Bill Simmons?

  The Purge? That's a good one. I would go for Into the Night.

• 1:42:32Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:42:33Bill Simmons?

  I think it'd be funny to see New York, LA, same kind of version, energy.

• 1:42:36Sean Fennessey?

  I like that.

• 1:42:36Bill Simmons?

  And then who won the movie? Scorsese?

• 1:42:39Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, man. I mean, he was, he was cooked. He was done for. And then I think this movie just getting made and acknowledged.

• 1:42:46Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:46Sean Fennessey?

  Was enough to kind of start to get him back on track.

• 1:42:48Bill Simmons?

  It got his juices going again, which is all that really matters.

• 1:42:51Sean Fennessey?

  You like this movie more or less than Color Money? Which comes right after this.

• 1:42:58Bill Simmons?

  I like Color Money a little more.

• 1:42:59Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:00Bill Simmons?

  I think that movie's amazing.

• 1:43:01Sean Fennessey?

  They're both five stars.

• 1:43:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, we already did that one. This one, I think, as I said, it's.

• 1:43:06Sean Fennessey?

  You don't want to recolor?

• 1:43:07Bill Simmons?

  It's a, it's less of a fun hang, but I almost admire it more than Color Money. Cause I can't believe it worked.

• 1:43:15Sean Fennessey?

  It's just a hinge movie for him, you know? He just, he needs it to go forward, to go through the next door.

• 1:43:21Bill Simmons?

  That's it for New York City Month. What was your biggest disappointment that we didn't do in New York City?

• 1:43:25Sean Fennessey?

  I'm waiting on Dog Day Afternoon.

• 1:43:28Sean Fennessey?

  I want to do it. I think we could do it. I think we could do a great episode. I think we could do a mega episode about Dog Day.

• 1:43:35Sean Fennessey?

  We should do it.

• 1:43:36Bill Simmons?

  It's a good one. Which one were you the most jealous of that you weren't on out of the other four? Probably not Out for Justice?

• 1:43:43Sean Fennessey?

  Nope, didn't even, I don't know if I've even seen that film. DH with a V is a big one for me. I love that movie.

• 1:43:50Bill Simmons?

  I know, we don't, we don't have four seats anymore.

• 1:43:52Sean Fennessey?

  I know.

• 1:43:52Bill Simmons?

  We would have to do a different studio.

• 1:43:55Sean Fennessey?

  If only we worked at a massive corporation, they could fund incredible studios.

• 1:43:58Bill Simmons?

  We're changing it right now. We're trying to fix it.

• 1:44:01Sean Fennessey?

  Probably Die Hard or The Vengeance, just because I was like a teenager when that movie came out and I just thought it was crack. I think there's like a really good case for it as better than the original Die Hard.

• 1:44:10Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 1:44:10Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, which I know is, I know you guys talked about it a little bit, but that's a great one. And then, I don't know, what was the other one? You did another big one, too.

• 1:44:17Bill Simmons?

  Working Girl.

• 1:44:18Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, well, I should not have been on that. I'm glad you, I'm, I think you, you did a great service.

• 1:44:23Bill Simmons?

  So Out for Justice 1.

• 1:44:25Sean Fennessey?

  Yep, Out for Justice 1.

• 1:44:26Bill Simmons?

  Which, which New York movie did we not do other than Dog Day Afternoon that you think we should have done? Because King of Comedy was in the finals.

• 1:44:35Sean Fennessey?

  We never done that?

• 1:44:35Bill Simmons?

  Because I was thinking about doing one for you.

• 1:44:36Sean Fennessey?

  We never did that?

• 1:44:37Bill Simmons?

  No. That movie makes me uneasy and uncomfortable, and I don't know if it's rewatchable.

• 1:44:42Sean Fennessey?

  Um.

• 1:44:43Bill Simmons?

  Because Sandra Bernhard is so frightening in that movie that it's almost like not, not fun, but I know it is.

• 1:44:49Sean Fennessey?

  It's just, it's so crazy. It's so smart about where we are now and how people think about celebrity. It is so-

• 1:44:56Bill Simmons?

  Which is why we're gonna have to do it at some point.

• 1:44:58Sean Fennessey?

  So smart. I guess I don't really, it is, that is a New York movie and it is very much a movie about like a New York talk show host star, but for whatever reason, I don't associate that as much with New York as like, you know, your taxi drivers and your other Scorsese classics. I'm trying to think of best New York movies of all time.

• 1:45:13Bill Simmons?

  We've done a bunch of them. Like we did when Harry Met Sally and Cruising and The Warriors, and we've done like a shitload of them.

• 1:45:19Sean Fennessey?

  You know what would be a really good one?

• 1:45:20Bill Simmons?

  Death Wish.

• 1:45:21Sean Fennessey?

  I don't know if you have a big relationship to this movie, but Frances Ha.

• 1:45:24Bill Simmons?

  It's on the list.

• 1:45:25Sean Fennessey?

  Frances Ha is a movie that was about-

• 1:45:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I looked at it.

• 1:45:27Sean Fennessey?

  -when I was living in New York.

• 1:45:28Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:29Sean Fennessey?

  It is, that is the closest, like I didn't live through After Hours, but what she is doing in that movie, plus Bonback being such a special filmmaker for us, it just, it felt like my life in a very specific way. So that would be a really good one.

• 1:45:43Bill Simmons?

  Did Jack Sanders like After Hours?

• 1:45:44Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, I think he loved it, right, Jack?

• 1:45:47Bill Simmons?

  I think this movie is the reason this show exists. Not the specific movie, but the idea. For me, Bill, this is a fun hang. My girlfriend and I were dying laughing the entire time. For me, it's a five star masterpiece. Wow. And this is a very specific thought, but I would say Scorsese, better than any

• 1:46:08Speaker 02

  Other director has the best image making instincts. His intentionality comes through so clearly when he's whipping the camera, when he's panning, when he's telling you something's supposed to be scary, something's supposed to be serious. I think it's better than any other director. I absolutely loved it.

• 1:46:24Bill Simmons?

  Wow, you've really just trained him.

• 1:46:26Sean Fennessey?

  What do you mean?

• 1:46:27Bill Simmons?

  You've groomed him.

• 1:46:28Sean Fennessey?

  He came to the right place. That's what happened.

• 1:46:30Bill Simmons?

  No, he really did.

• 1:46:30Sean Fennessey?

  He was born for it.

• 1:46:32Bill Simmons?

  I think his movies have the best pace. He's figured out pace better than any other director that I can think of.

• 1:46:40Sean Fennessey?

  He doesn't have a ton of movies that are 94 minutes, too. That's the other thing is this movie is tight.

• 1:46:44Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:45Sean Fennessey?

  It flies.

• 1:46:46Bill Simmons?

  Craig's away. I think Craig's on his honeymoon, somewhere.

• 1:46:49Sean Fennessey?

  Didn't he get married like two years ago?

• 1:46:51Bill Simmons?

  Maybe he's just on a vacation.

• 1:46:54Sean Fennessey?

  Would it be okay if I went on my honeymoon tomorrow?

• 1:46:57Bill Simmons?

  He's on a vacation, but when Craig comes back, we need his take on a couple of these.

• 1:47:01Sean Fennessey?

  I think he would like this a lot if he hasn't seen it.

• 1:47:03Bill Simmons?

  94 minutes, he just immediately would have been in on that. All right. Well, we're coming back next week. We'll have some sort of something. When is July 4th?

• 1:47:11Sean Fennessey?

  July 4th is on a Friday this year, right?

• 1:47:14Bill Simmons?

  Next Friday. Gotta tape it next week. All right, that's it. That's it for New York City Month. I don't know what's coming next week. It's July 4th. We'll see. See, hopefully Jaylen Brown does get traded. Thanks to Jack Sanders. Thanks to Ronic as well, and we'll see you next week.

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