Wallo267 Part 1

Wallo267 visited The Questlove Show to discuss his latest book, Yes To You, No To Them. Instead, he ended up disrupting Ahmir’s day—in the best possible way—with an experiential pep talk that captures why so many people need this book. The acclaimed Million Dollaz Worth of Game co-host, motivator, and music lover looks back on his journey—one that began just across town from Questlove’s—and how misinformation led him into life-changing circumstances. The two men compare notes on life and discuss how, after a quarter century behind bars, Wallo has spent the past decade embracing freedom to the fullest while cultivating possibility and hard-earned wisdom. Along the way, Wallo explains his profound appreciation for Anthony Bourdain, challenges Hollywood’s misconceptions about prison, and much more. The result is a vulnerable and deeply powerful episode of QLS—and only the first half of their full conversation. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  This is the story of the one. As a shipping manager, he's running the dock, stocking supplies and making sure every order goes out on time. And Granger helps him stay prepared. From shipping supplies to PPE to hand tools, he counts on Granger to keep products moving and trucks rolling. So his operation runs smoothly, no matter the shift. Call 1-800-GRANGER, click Granger.com or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done.

• 0:35Speaker 00

  Hey, I'm Niall Rogers. This fall, I'll be driving across the country, meeting some of today's coolest and most fascinating artists. We'll explore the stories before the moments that changed everything. Because every musician remembers the moment where it all began. Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original Series on the iHeart Radio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:07Speaker 00

  The Questlove Show is a production of iHeart Radio.

• 1:25Speaker 00

  All right. Not for nothing, but our guest today is one of the most thoroughest young fools in the game. All right, I'm sorry. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome. You see what happens when I show enthusiasm? Now, welcome to The Questlove Show. Longtime devotees of the show know that normally I've reserved, you know, this platform, this space for musicians, actors, whatnot. Of course, you know, our guest today is just a leading voice in the podcast and influence space. He walks it like he talks it.

• 2:07Speaker 00

  He's, you know, really about the action in terms of like reform and rewiring our brains and just the seed planting of, for those that think, I mean, that's the commonality in all of us, like, do we ever think that we're deserving of that light and that chance? And that's, that's a commonality that, you know, even though we, it might seem like we come from two different backgrounds, like, having read your books, like, it's literally the same path as the Small Choices.

• 2:35Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:36Speaker 00

  Led us to a place where, you know, both of us have this rebirth. But of course, you know him as co-host of one of the craziest podcasts ever, Million Dollaz Worth of Game, that he hosts with his cousin, Gilly the Kid. But you also know him for his impactful videos and, man, does this, does everyone always introduce you in some sort of Hall of Fame level?

• 2:58Speaker 02

  No, not really. I think it'd be just hype. You know, everything'd be hype.

• 3:02Speaker 00

  I mean, no, I just, I think, especially with men, like, I'm a guy that, this podcast knows my relationship with compliments. Like, I will start ducking and dodging and-

• 3:14Speaker 02

  I think anybody do that.

• 3:15Speaker 00

  Yeah. So just allow myself to either feel it or speak it is sometimes hard to do, because I'm trying to reprogram myself and better myself in my journey. But the title of your latest book, which is Yes to You and No to Them.

• 3:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:33Speaker 00

  Literally could not come at a more timely period in my life, because I'm literally, I mean, it's one thing to acclimate yourself with the word no, but it's a lot to stand on business about it. And I'm one of those people that want to be like, super likable. I don't want to shine my light and, you know, often find myself like, damning myself just so I can fit in, so I'm not too much of a threat. And a big part of that is learning to advocate for yourself and say no. And I'd rather be self-sacrificing. So this book came at, I was like, damn, I actually need this now.

• 4:13Speaker 00

  Having read your books and followed your podcast, my first question is, okay, only you truly know, and I think you might know the answer, you know the, you know the genesis of your rebirth.

• 4:28Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 4:29Speaker 00

  Like, I think everyone comes to a point in their life where, unfortunately, for some people, they have to hit like, real rock bottom. Even the way that you put it, the universe still showed mercy on you, because he could have really showed you some real never coming back, rock bottom. And you got, like, that's how I look at the pandemic.

• 4:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:52Speaker 00

  Like, it's not normal to live through a plague that, we lived in a time when 1.7 million people died, but somehow, like, for me, that period was my period of waking up and realizing I had a mission. But do you specifically have a date in which you knew you had a calling? A real calling?

• 5:13Speaker 02

  I don't really know the date. I was in a cell. I was in prison, you know what I mean? It was hot as shit that day, and the walls were sweating, and I ain't go to the yard. And I'm just laying on the top bunk, and I'm looking at the ceiling. I'm hot as shit. The only reason I was laying there, because I would take, go back and forth for the same cold water and get late, and I had this towel that I would lay on my chest, because it was hot as shit in there. Like, it wasn't, you know, and I was also-

• 5:38Speaker 00

  There's no, no air conditioning, no?

• 5:40Speaker 02

  No, no, no. Wait.

• 5:42Speaker 00

  All right, I'm gonna tell you something-

• 5:43Speaker 02

  That'd be crazy, like, they ain't got no AC.

• 5:44Speaker 00

  Listen-

• 5:45Speaker 02

  Some prisons, they do. Let me, let me say, you know, a lot of prisons, they do got central air.

• 5:50Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 5:51Speaker 02

  So a lot of them, they do. But I was in the old one before central air.

• 5:53Speaker 00

  I'm just gonna-

• 5:54Speaker 02

  It was the old style one.

• 5:55Speaker 00

  I'm gonna just say it right now.

• 5:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, go ahead.

• 5:58Speaker 00

  So this can also be a teaching moment, you know? I had a fear of having this conversation, because I was afraid I was gonna ask you a question-

• 6:07Speaker 02

  You're never gonna ask the wrong question.

• 6:08Speaker 00

  That I should have known, and I have a lot of questions.

• 6:12Speaker 02

  No, ask all. Listen, you, it's not your job to know about San Francisco if you've never lived here. Simple. It's simple. You don't, you, you're not gonna know, damn, where's the coffee, where's this at? You're just not gonna know, so it's cool.

• 6:25Speaker 00

  See, now you know how much needed this book was, because in my whole thing was like, oh, man, I might ask the wrong shit.

• 6:33Speaker 02

  No, you never gonna ask the wrong shit.

• 6:35Speaker 00

  And then it's gonna be viral and then like-

• 6:37Speaker 02

  No, no, fuck all that. I'm gonna tell you like this. I'm sitting in a cell, coming from where I come from, you know Philly, you know me, the only thing that's different between me and you, like you said, small decisions that we made, choices we made.

• 6:49Speaker 00

  Right.

• 6:50Speaker 02

  It might be that day that you decided to go to school and I didn't. It might be that day that you decided to stay out when you were supposed to go home.

• 6:57Speaker 00

  I never questioned even when people are in my way, and there's like 12 seconds of like, oh, excuse me.

• 7:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 7:02Speaker 00

  That 12 seconds just saved my life.

• 7:03Speaker 02

  It can change your life.

• 7:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:05Speaker 02

  So you know. And if it goes back to breaking down the understanding of why I did some of the things that I did in order to get to prison, young, growing up, Philadelphia, wanting to be down, first got locked up at 11, June 30th, 1990, for robbery. You know what I mean? I got locked up again-

• 7:22Speaker 00

  June 30th, 1990?

• 7:23Speaker 02

  June 30th, 1990, the first time I got arrested. 11 years old for a couple of days.

• 7:28Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 7:29Speaker 02

  Birthday, June 21st. So wound up getting arrested before, but before even there, establishing my outlook. I was establishing my outlook based off of me sitting on the steps, 13th and Allegheny around there, seeing the drug dealer come, pull up, nice car, Mercedes Benz, gold, gold rims, coming to get the most beautiful girl in the neighborhood. At that moment, I was educated that America respects successful criminals, so I needed to be one. Whether it's Godfather, whether it's Scarface, whether it's Sopranos, they get claps to get, you know, but even before that, understanding that when the guy come to pick up the most beautiful girl in the neighborhood, and he got the jury on, the older ladies on the steps,

• 8:14Speaker 02

  Ms. Brown, Ms. Jackson, Ms. Johnson, they say, hey, baby. They spoke to him, but they never spoke to the janitor coming home from work, a hard day at work. So I said, damn, he the only person that get respect, so I needed to try to be that. So that's when the criminal element took place, and I said, I had to be a successful criminal in America.

• 8:30Speaker 00

  So that was your come to Jesus moment, like, this is an obtainable goal? Like, this is what I-

• 8:36Speaker 02

  It gotta be that, because it's like, they the only people that get respected. And then when you go in the house, the only movies is getting watched, the Godfather's historical movie. If you go to a federal prosecutor, or if you go to a federal judge, you go to a lawmaker, ask him which his favorite movie is.

• 8:52Speaker 02

  Crime is a real important business in America. You know what I'm saying? Think about it, but it's oxymoronic how tough on crime, but at the same time, we idolize the people that never get arrested. All the ideas of them through movies. So it was like, whoa, I gotta be that. I'm like, oh, that's, that's the, I gotta be, you know what I mean? So you thinking. So I get into crime and I started believing that this is okay, based off of what I'm seeing in the society, what I'm seeing in the community and who get respected and who don't. So it's a deeper thing to be able to, for me to establish the mindset that I gotta try to still the American dream. Why would I work for it? They don't respect the workers.

• 9:29Speaker 00

  And that came into your mind at 11?

• 9:31Speaker 02

  No, it didn't come into my mind. I didn't understand that that's what I was seeing.

• 9:34Speaker 00

  So subconsciously.

• 9:36Speaker 02

  And so I'm sitting in prison because I gotta think back like, yo, when was I? Then I start like, oh damn, that's cool. Cause them to do is that was a superhero. The drug dealer, the criminal that was making money that came around. How you got a pocket full of money and the dude that work aid, they don't? He's standing on the corner. He get to do what he want. He don't have to work. So it's, so you think about the later on like, damn, that's what I was seeing. I didn't understand that then.

• 9:55Speaker 00

  All right. You just said something that's now full circle with me. At the very top, you said it could have been a time period in which like you were out and I was in, or a time when I was out and you were in. And I'm realizing that like, oh, okay, that the commonality there is that. Now I know that as young people, we come chipped and equipped with a, an impressionable gene. You know, we might get 10 of them as a kid and at least four of them are squandered on like watching Super Friends or like, you know, who you want to be? And when you said that, so my version of that story

• 10:38Speaker 00

  was I was five years old watching Stephen Ferrone, a British drummer from Brighton, England. Ironically, in the, the lone black guy in a band called The Average White Band. And the novelty of funky white boys playing on Soul Train live was like a big deal in my house. So already the average white man is coming on Soul Train. And all of them are like watching like, to see if it's true that like white boys do have rhythm. And so I remember the moment, I'm four and I was just transfixed on the drummer. And then that was my moment of like, yeah, that's what I want to do with my life.

• 11:21Speaker 00

  But I also acknowledge that that was a sick day. I was sick and in bed. I could have been with any of my cousins or my next door neighbors or it's this time and circumstance of that. So you're saying you're, you're laying in your cell and you're reflecting on when's the first moment that you had?

• 11:42Speaker 02

  No, I wasn't really reflecting on the first moment. I was reflecting on this shit is old. Cause I spent, you gotta understand, I spent majority of my time on this planet inside of a cell. Majority of my time. I did five years in the juvenile system and I wound up doing 20 years and certified as adult in prison. That's 25 and 47. So I, I'm just so used to being incarcerated to the point to where it's like, it's normalized. Like I'm not, I'm tired with the fact of that I normalize it so much that I don't even feel incarceration. It's just normal. Right? So because early in my prison bit, I seen some things, seen some dude get stabbed in the yard. And I never forget that when I came in, I was shaking.

• 12:26Speaker 02

  And my cellmate at the time, brother Umar, he was an older dude doing life. He was like, and it was so, no, he sat on the bed. He was like, I heard what happened in the yard. I'm like, I'm just sitting here like, cause usually you come in the cell and you sit on the toilet. When I see it like be a cardboard, you put a cardboard, that's like a chair. So you sitting there and I'm just like, damn, I'm like, wow. Cause I hit the penitentiary and when I hit the penitentiary, this was like 90. What was this? I was, I just turned 18 and they put me on population. So probably 97, 98, something like that. You got prison and you got penitentiary. Penitentiary usually is when they talking about that, they're talking about an old facility that been there for a long time, old building, old structure, wall, gate.

• 13:11Speaker 02

  It just old, it's not new. And then a state correctional institution, that's like the new jails with the AC and all that. So I'm in the penitentiary, which is the old jail. So I'm sitting there and I'm like, I'm just like, I can't believe this dude was stabbing me until his arm got tired. And his blood was jumping everywhere. So I was like, I never forget, I stood near the gate waiting for the yard to be over. Cause I'm like, I'm trying to run in it. I'm trying to get up in here. I got it, you know, because you realizing like, damn.

• 13:37Speaker 00

  You're trying to get in the yard?

• 13:38Speaker 02

  No, I'm trying to get in, I'm trying to go back to the cell block.

• 13:40Speaker 00

  Okay, okay.

• 13:40Speaker 02

  No, I'm just standing, I'm, I'm standing there like, I'm standing there like, yo, I can't wait till this yard is over.

• 13:44Speaker 00

  No, I'm with you, but then when you said that, I was like, wait a minute, I would be running to my cell. Okay, I get it. We're still on the same level. Sorry about that.

• 13:50Speaker 02

  I can't go there because the gate closed. You gotta wait. So I'm sitting there and as I'm looking at it, watching, I'm like, whoa, I'm just like, damn. And the guards is taking their time because they don't want to get close up on the dude. So they like, stop, they just trying, trying to tell him to stop. But he like, get out of here. And as, once they finally walk up, once he stopped, he just got, basically got tired. They said back out, they kicked the knife, shank, and then, you know, cuffed him. And then as they cuffed him, I'll never forget, so I'm learning stuff. It was some of his homies over there like, you ain't supposed to cuff him in the yard. I seen them hollering at the guards, some of his dude homeboys who were stabbed. Cause they not supposed to cuff you walking in the yard. Cause somebody can attack you when they got you cuffed. So they really supposed to walk you out. So just in case something happen, you get to like holding your arms or something, whatever.

• 14:32Speaker 02

  So I don't, I don't know why he's saying, I'm just like, cause this is like my first week in the penitentiary. So I'm like.

• 14:37Speaker 00

  Wait, this is your first week?

• 14:38Speaker 02

  This is my first week in that prison.

• 14:40Speaker 00

  Shit, goddamn.

• 14:41Speaker 02

  I got transferred, so I'm like, shit, right? So I'm like, and this even before I seen some of my homeboys there. So I'm just like, damn, this shit real, right? Cause I'm like this, me going to prison, I never was the one that took on the tough guy mentality. And to try to deny my feelings or fight my feelings or my emotions that I'm a human and this shit is scary. I never was a dude to come out of prison and say that. Like, oh, I wasn't scared. No, that's, that's bullshit. So when I go back to the cell and I'm sitting on the toilet, Umar looking at me, he like, I never forget, he was like eating an orange pill and he like, he was like, yeah, you looking at it wrong. I'm just like, I'm like, what the fuck? I just seen somebody get stabbed. I'm not looking at that wrong, right? So he tell me, you can't be looking at it with your regular mind. This is a journey you ready going, you gotta go insane in order to stay sane.

• 15:25Speaker 02

  So you gotta look at this with an insane mind. So I'm like, I'm, I'm just listening to him. He just talking to me, basically like, you gotta normalize the things you gonna see in here. And as he bringing it down to me, he said, he said, when I see somebody get stabbed, I'm not looking about why they, looking at somebody stabbing somebody. I'm saying to myself, what did he do to that guy to make him do that? So I'm like, damn, you really gotta remove yourself from the human instinct of feeling for somebody or being emotional about anything that you gonna see. Or if you looking at it from a regular, layman person mindset, you're gonna go to fuck crazy. So you gotta fortify your mind. So he telling me this shit and I'm sitting there like, I'm listening. And that whole night he was, Dave, he was talking to me about it and I was like, he was like, yeah,

• 16:09Speaker 02

  you know, nothing don't happen for no reason, this, that and the third, boom, boom, boom. So now he put my mind in that format of seeing what I'm seeing, but seeing it in a different way through this journey. Because if I don't, I'm gonna go crazy. And you know what I mean? So that right there, it helped me normalize prison more. And it helped me didn't feel it as much as the average person would feel it during the journey. Because one thing that I knew, Chris, was that I knew that every time I was in jail was because of me. It wasn't because of the white man. It wasn't because of the system. It was because I decided to commit crime when I could have did anything else. So I'm already taking accountability of that aspect. So now I'm just taking accountability like, oh, this is just normal.

• 16:52Speaker 02

  Getting up every day, making my bed, sleeping on the plastic of the bed, wiping it down, wiping my floor down, you know, using the toilet as a refrigerator, all that type. So it's just, it's a lot that I had to process. So by the time I hit there, when I'm looking at that, I'm telling you about that hot day, I'm just like, I'm tired of this shit.

• 17:17Speaker 03

  Hey, it's Niall Rogers, host of Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series. I'm driving across the country, meeting some of today's most fascinating artists. We're exploring the stories before the moment that changed everything. This week, I'm joined by Miguel.

• 17:35Speaker 04

  Man, I'm a black and Mexican kid from San Pedro and I grew up in Inglewood as well. I never liked to be like boxed in. Both of my parents colored outside of the line. I mean, even them being together at the time in LA was just not typical. And so I think that has always been a part of my DNA. There's a defiant something in me that feels like what we get to do with, with what we're given that's greater than us is to maybe connect people to ideas that they wouldn't naturally, you know, connect to. That's really me. I'm just kind of like defiant with love though.

• 18:11Speaker 03

  Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 18:20Speaker 05

  Hey, it's Lunchbox from the Bobby Bones Show. Buy smart, drive for less and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability and it starts with a great deal on an all wheel drive Camry, Corolla Cross or a Corolla sedan with the latest features in tech. Or test drive a spacious Grand Highlander or an adventure ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid models available, you can enjoy longer trips without all the stops. While Toyota's legendary resale value means you could get more at trade in. Get a deal today and great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for deals and details. Toyota, let's go places.

• 18:58Speaker 00

  Behind every chart topping hit, you know by heart, there's an original. Writing it someplace where nobody was listening. Some basement, some bedroom, somebody with headphones on at three in the morning, chasing a thing they couldn't even name yet. Behind the culture that marks a generation, there's an original. Already moving, already shaking things up, already looping that one bar, already off tempo. On purpose, because on purpose was the point. Behind every night that changed the room, somebody had to walk in first. Not knowing it would land, but doing it anyway. Originals are out there, living stories worth telling. What's yours?

• 19:42Speaker 00

  Behind every original, live in Levi's.

• 19:52Speaker 00

  All right, second fear of having, the second fear of having your own platform is my knowing and being hyper aware of not to make my guests about me when they share like vulnerable shit.

• 20:08Speaker 02

  It's okay.

• 20:11Speaker 00

  But there's a selfish reason I wanted you on this podcast.

• 20:17Speaker 00

  Because intrinsically, I feel,

• 20:22Speaker 00

  all right, so I know from my life, the payoff is, yo, y'all killed that Jay-Z show. Yo, this album changed my life. Yo, oh, God, that movie you did and da, da, da, da, da, all this creativity. Like, yeah, there is a part of me that is that person who is the brand I sell of like, hey, I'm curious about knowledge and all these things and learn and education, music education.

• 20:49Speaker 00

  You know, but like, duh, you know, it's literally impossible for the generational epigenetical pain from slave masters to the first generation of slaves to whoever survived that, to whoever survived that, to our great, great, great, great, great, great, great father, us, on and on. Like, so you're also inheriting like their burden and their pain and shit.

• 21:15Speaker 00

  You know, I think what I managed to do with this career is I managed to make the painful part look sexy, which is like, people are like, yo, how do you manage to do everything? I got The Tonight Show, The Roots, DJ gigs, you write books, da, da, da, da. Cause I was raised by one of those James Brown, like, hard work.

• 21:35Speaker 00

  Respectability politics that Cosby pull your pants up shit. You know, but it was a traumatic road to get there. Cause the nicest way that I could put this with the most giantest wink without being like totally vulnerable about it is like, you know, my dad was a drill sergeant. When I say he was a Joe Jackson like dad.

• 21:59Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 22:01Speaker 00

  Like, Joe Jackson is not alone in this. Somehow the anger and that shit and the trauma of it was the benefit for all of us to spectate because, you know, it's like, okay, these nine kids are gonna bring joy to the world and all that stuff and give us something to look forward to. But that's a lot to take in and that's the commonality I have. You know, the trauma of rushing home from school to beat the Oprah theme so I don't get on punishment. And I'm being very kind when I say that word, but you know, the hell I had to catch to become this savanna music. It was always justified in my mind because

• 22:45Speaker 00

  the fear that was put in me was that I'm saving you from what's out there.

• 22:53Speaker 00

  So, yes, I made it to safety, but there's such a trauma burden that one has to endure. That we, you know, we both came to this redemption place where we now, I think, are common in our beliefs of like, we have to put out good in the world and all that stuff. The lesson that I never learned is the grass is always green on the other side, right? Now, you specifically named, you know, two very distinctive years of this part of your life. And to show you how small I feel, like, you know, I thought the summer of 1990 was hell because I wasn't impressed with Public Enemy's Fear of a Black Planet.

• 23:37Speaker 00

  Like, the reason why I had to ask you almost twice, like, wait, June of 1990? Oh, man, I remember like being depressed because four songs on Fear of a Black. Like, I viewed that as like depression and your version of that day is something different. And we still came to this place, but I always wanted to know, you know, because I do know people that have not survived this journey. Most have given up. I have cousins. I have schoolmates. I've had band members that just gave up.

• 24:22Speaker 00

  And, you know, the whole time I'm like studying you from afar, I'm just like, what was the moment that woke him up? Cause even my privileged side of thing,

• 24:37Speaker 00

  like, I ignore that call daily. And I feel guilty about it because it's being handed to me in such an easy way. And it's, but it's also the same like paralyzing thing that I think that has also hampered a lot of my constituents. You know, other fellow artists that seem stuck in a loop and can't get themselves out. And then there's a RIP post on, you know what I mean? Cause we can't get over the hump of the calling part. And so, you know, I had a whole bunch of other questions to ask, but it's, you know. But what made you want to stick with it?

• 25:17Speaker 00

  Like, once you had that calling, what made you want to execute it? Cause we will all say, okay, I'm here for the leadership, but you know, I hate leadership. What makes you want to show up?

• 25:32Speaker 02

  Because like, first of all, I always think of it like this. I look at it like this. It was two things I used to do in prison religiously. Another thing, I just want to let you know, cause you don't know. You could buy a TV off Comedy Store. You got a TV in your cell with cable.

• 25:48Speaker 00

  I wanted to know how you got music in.

• 25:50Speaker 02

  I'm telling you, I gotta, I gotta break this down too, so I'm telling you, right?

• 25:53Speaker 00

  So, so, so. I just wanted to thank you for answering that. Thank you.

• 25:56Speaker 02

  You get a TV off Comedy Store. We got a TV, little 19 inches. I mean, before it was 19, like 14 inches, whatever. So we got a TV in our cell. What makes me keep going is realizing I grew up and I lacked exposure. A lot of time in the hood, we lacked exposure to different things. So as I'm in the cell watching TV, I became addicted to commercials. To my cellmate, he's like, yo, man, why you always watching commercials, right? I'm like, yo, man, I just, I don't know. So I keep changing the channel every time a show re coming, I just watch commercials religiously, right? Cause I'm trying to figure out, yo, that, that, that Big Mac never looked like that when I was on the streets, man. Did you ever had one like that, man? He like, you see, I was nice, like, it always be sloppy. You just don't never. He like, yo, man, like, no, but then he'd be like, yo, you always ask me shit that don't matter.

• 26:40Speaker 02

  He like, you be, come on, man, that shit don't matter. I'm watching this show, right? I'm like, all right. So then I started learning, cause it's two things I'm watching. I'm studying these commercials. And then I, once I realized that all these commercials is done by advertising agency, I start deep diving into marketing, advertising agency. I'm reading George Lois, damn good advice, top marketing man in the world. So I'm just thinking about all this type of stuff, right? I'm reading this stuff. And then on the other side, I become obsessed with Anthony Bourdain. Cause I'm like, yo, this dude was in, he was, he was on drugs before. He got his life together, he's a chef. And he's introducing me to the, like,

• 27:17Speaker 02

  Anthony Bourdain was like my, uh, my travel agent. He was taking me everywhere. He was like, this was the greatest motherfucker on earth to me, right? Cause I'm sitting in the cell and I'm like, I'm watching every show, Parts I Know, No Reservation, The Layover. I'm talking about, I know every show. So I'm just like, damn, I want to eat that. But what I, I got to if I'm with him, cause I'm putting myself like, I know Ant. I'm telling Ant, like, this is my uncle, my cousin. I'm like, I call him Ant. So I'm like, damn, this boy Ant's just, in my cell, like, this is all you watch. Cause you know, and what I liked about it on the media aspect is I built my company. And I'm just looking at, he was on multiple channels, CNN, Parts I Know. He was on multiple, his, uh, travel channel, I'm just looking at. But he, he never, it was never enough shows. So I'm just watching them. I'm just like,

• 27:58Speaker 02

  this is what life is about. Living, you gotta explore, you gotta meet new people, you gotta talk to everybody. Just he, Anthony Bourdain talked to everybody, same energy. He was a great listener. And I was like, yo, that's life, right? So as I'm studying this, I'm studying marketing and I'm just like, at the same time, I'm comfortable in prison and I'm gonna tell you why. Somebody asked me one time, damn, with jail, I said, and it was strange. And they asked me about prison and they said, if you had to describe prison, how would you describe it? I said, the most peaceful place on earth.

• 28:35Speaker 02

  Right? And they said, wow, Wallow. I said, relaxing too. And he said, why?

• 28:40Speaker 00

  What?

• 28:41Speaker 02

  Let me break it down.

• 28:41Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 28:42Speaker 02

  When you're in prison, if you're tired, you could go to sleep. You don't have to work in prison. You don't, listen, you ever notice how when somebody come from prison, they be still look younger? They look.

• 28:52Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 28:53Speaker 02

  The stress of life is not there. When I go to prison seventeen and come out thirty seven, people like, wow, you got so much energy. Why you do this, that, third? What, what, what prison did for me from seventeen to thirty seven, instead of dealing with heartbreak, lawsuit, job, credit debt, college, all this, all this type of stuff. What it was able to do from seventeen to thirty seven was fortify my imagination. So when I come out of thirty seven, I still think, I, I still think like I'm seventeen on the aspect of what I could do, what I can't do. I don't have fears.

• 29:21Speaker 00

  You came out seventeen.

• 29:23Speaker 02

  No, yeah, I came out seventeen. So I still, so when you see me, you're like, damn, Wallow be doing, he be everywhere, he doing all this stuff. Because first of all, I got more rest than most people on the planet. I had less stress than most people on the planet. And let me explain something to you. Prison might be the most peaceful place in the world, the most respectful place in the world. People say, wow, Wallow, because the consequences of disrespect is at its highest level on this earth.

• 29:48Speaker 00

  You learned your lesson.

• 29:49Speaker 02

  It, it is not, no, so what it is, is respect, respect, respect. I didn't seen murderers have apology fest. You know how they have festivals out here? They didn't had apology, I didn't see murderers bump each other like in a chow hall. And they be, and they be just, just battling for, no, I'm sorry, no, I'm sorry, brother. No, I ain't mean to do that. And you be like, and then when I, when I first witnessed that, I asked Omar one time, I said, why was they? He said, because if it's become a problem with them two dudes from two different sections, a war could start in here. And when a war start, a lot of stuff could be lost, privileges, lockdown. You know what I mean? Cause a lot of these places, the prisoners run the jail, not the warden.

• 30:30Speaker 02

  So, so when I say respect is at its highest level, it's not social media. Social media, anybody get online and disrespect you, there's no consequences. So in there, the respect level is so peaceful, you, you'll go there, you're like, damn. The cell block smell, everything clean, it's peaceful. You hear Frankie Beverly and Maze coming out of one cell, Dale Fonix coming out of another cell, Run DMC coming out of this cell, Tupac playing out of that cell. Old here is walking down, you see an old here that been in jail for thirty seven years. He listen to Dale Fonix. And I mean, so the stylist, so it's like, it's real because it's like, the peacefulness is just different.

• 31:12Speaker 02

  Where out here, there's no consequences to disrespect. And I ain't saying nothing gotta be physical or deadly, but it's like, it's so freely to disrespect people. Whereas though you got people in there that still practicing stuff that you don't see no more on the planet.

• 31:26Speaker 00

  I have a question to ask you.

• 31:27Speaker 02

  Go ahead.

• 31:27Speaker 00

  Oh, God. When you gave me permission that no questions done.

• 31:31Speaker 02

  Any question.

• 31:32Speaker 00

  I was like, I ain't falling for that shit.

• 31:34Speaker 02

  No, I'm being serious. Any question?

• 31:36Speaker 00

  Do you scoff or eye roll at the Hollywoodization of what they depict? And subsequently show us what prison life is? Like, do you? Are we all out here falling for like? The, the way that sometimes like your pain can be fetishized in Hollywood in terms of what? Because that is a take on prison. I'd never, you know?

• 32:09Speaker 02

  No, you know what it is? I was, that's why I was so scared when I went to prison. I was scared to death.

• 32:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:16Speaker 02

  Because, because.

• 32:17Speaker 00

  What was told to you?

• 32:18Speaker 02

  But what I always seen on there, the advertisement of prison through Hollywood was always, it was super crazy, right?

• 32:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:26Speaker 02

  So when I go there, I'm like, it will only be like two to three major incidents a year out of the twenty years that I spent in prison of like, some real serious stuff.

• 32:36Speaker 00

  Catastrophic levels.

• 32:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, fighting is, that's, that's regular stuff.

• 32:40Speaker 00

  Oz will have you thinking that shit happens every five minutes.

• 32:43Speaker 02

  Annabici, that wasn't real. Annabici would've got destroyed. Somebody would've destroyed it. Somebody would've destroyed him. Two, three dudes would've destroyed him. Like, he would've got destroyed. Ain't nobody doing that.

• 32:54Speaker 00

  I, I was trying to explain to my interns, they're younger than me, they're in their early thirties, but they're like addicted to, uh, uh, Euphoria right now.

• 33:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:02Speaker 00

  And his character is a main character on the last season of Euphoria. And I'm trying to explain to him.

• 33:07Speaker 02

  He was a monster on HBO.

• 33:09Speaker 00

  Right.

• 33:10Speaker 02

  Oz, he was a monster. He ran around and they were just on this little pod, they would've destroyed him. He would've got shit.

• 33:16Speaker 00

  Right. And I'm trying to explain to them, like, this, this villain is not.

• 33:19Speaker 02

  Nobody would let, nobody would've let him do that. So it's like, so, so when you think about it, it's like, people be like, and the funny thing about it is like, I was in Yale, not jail. I was in Princeton, not prison. I was in Penn State, not the state pen. The level of knowledge in there, the level of information, the level of literature, you gotta think about it. A lot of the literature that you might hear, the classical books that people talk about, you might've been on point. Spooked to set by the door, Solider Brothers, that came from the joint. It was brothers in the joint, but like you'll run into old here, right here, give you a book and you be like, it be taped, I'm talking about it be yellow, you know the, it be yellow. You be like, he be like, listen, Nef, give me my book back. I want my book back. You got two days to read this.

• 34:04Speaker 02

  So you, you would take it, you'd be like, it be like yellow, cause it's so old. They got this, they got the original copies and stuff like that in there. Like dudes got original copies of Solider Brothers, Spooked to set by the door when it first came out. So you gotta think about it. The knowledge, the level of knowledge and, and teaching, that's why I say that people be like, damn, Wallow, how did you know so much coming out of prison? Read, like read, we read, like dudes read, like, you just be shocked. The levels of professors that got in there that there's no, I'm talking about the conversations, the chess players, the jazz musicians, the artists, the paint, like on every level. You got some mean trumpet players in there, saxophone players in there, drummers in there. They got bands in jail, they got all like stuff that you don't understand, that, that'll never be, it's athletes,

• 34:47Speaker 02

  but it's just that they might, they might can never leave. You know what I mean? So it's like, at the end of the day, it's like, the ideas that people have is amped up.

• 34:57Speaker 00

  Well, because.

• 34:59Speaker 02

  It's amped up.

• 34:59Speaker 00

  You know, part of the thing is that we're not supposed to humanize.

• 35:04Speaker 02

  Nothing.

• 35:05Speaker 00

  And I mean, the fact, I mean, I'm, now I'm sitting here kind of in shame because I'm so shocked that you're telling me that you can find humanity in prison. And I'm like, the, you know, look, God bless my dad, man. He got his wish, I made it safely.

• 35:27Speaker 02

  Yes, you did.

• 35:28Speaker 00

  But also, did I? Cause you know, I, it, it took twenty years to even let that relationship trauma go before he passed away. But like, you know, this is just one of the moments where, where I realized like, damn, like I, I held on to like a Hollywood lie of like what I thought, which then thus gives you an excuse. That's the excuse that humans need to not see you through a scope of respect or that sort of thing.

• 35:59Speaker 02

  The, uh, see, see, I, I spoke about, uh, when I was on Shannon Sharpe, and I spoke about, I said, you got God, whatever God do anybody choose to believe in, that's their business. And then I said, after God, you got marketing. Them the most two powerful things on this planet. The marketing, marketing is, is real powerful. And people be like, well, that's why when I leaned into it and understanding what marketing was and was studying in, in a prison, it was like, everything that you know, everything that you like was marketed to you. So why would I market that dudes is in prison? You got unbelievable gardeners in prison. You got yards in prison where they got gardens and greenhouses around the country.

• 36:41Speaker 02

  You got like gardens and greenhouses, where you got unbelievable, I can't market that to you. And, and, and yes, it's gonna be fights, yes, it's gonna be disagreement, yes, people will get stabbed, yes, people will get hurt, people will get raped. I'm not saying it. The same thing that happened in society is gonna happen there. The way they marketed it, it's like every day, this is what's happening. The police is running down the hallways, the sirens going on every, that's BS. Why you think when you see a lot of COs? Don't, don't, don't hurt me for the COs. A lot of COs just get fat after years, cause they be like this, sitting down all day, eating jail food that inmates made, eating chi chi's. They said, they, why you think so many COs get? They not, what they, what they doing? They not, cause if it was so dangerous, you'd be in shape to be on response. Majority is correctional officers in America is overweight.

• 37:27Speaker 02

  Pay attention to that. You gotta be in shape. You, you see the cops in shape, don't you? They be on, and they be ready, task force and all that stuff. Like, think about it. I'm just being real.

• 37:38Speaker 00

  You doing the Lord's work, man. Cause like, that's, I'm genuinely elated, like when I learned something.

• 37:46Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:47Speaker 00

  That I never knew before. And once I can get over myself and get over like feeling stupid because I didn't know. And a lot of times I think like, that's the frustration, like, half of it is we tend to try to penalize people we don't understand, which, you know.

• 38:03Speaker 02

  Marketing, kind of what's happening right now, you know?

• 38:06Speaker 00

  And then the other half is sort of the, I mean, you know, the, the fear of like not being in on it or, or the know, so you just never ask a question. And I was fine with never asking a question out of fear of being judged or ridiculed because I didn't know. But, um, I've had many hard, uh, an episode to do on this platform, man. And this is one of the hardest ones, cause you know, I feel like this is the closest that I could have a conversation with an alt-universe version of another version of me. Like, yes, I believe in all that cosmic versions of, of ourselves. So thank you for sharing that.

• 38:55Speaker 03

  Hey, it's Nile Rodgers, host of Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series. I'm driving across the country, meeting some of today's most fascinating artists. We're exploring the stories before the moment that changed everything. This week, I'm joined by breakout singer-songwriter Alex Warren.

• 39:16Speaker 06

  I had this dream of being a musician, and everyone I had known was kind of like, "You're not good at music, you know, you should probably have other things to back up, plan whatever." Felt like I didn't have anyone close to me, and my wife had flown out to visit, and she found out I was sleeping in a car, she didn't know. And she was like, "Let's do it." And she slept in a car with me. And for the first time in my life, I realized that in a life full of what I thought was things happening to me, something was finally happening for me.

• 39:43Speaker 00

  Dude, that's like the most romantic shit I've ever heard.

• 39:46Speaker 06

  It's the coolest thing ever.

• 39:47Speaker 03

  Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 39:56Speaker 07

  This is Colin Cowherd from the Colin Cowherd Podcast. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota Ford ability. All starts with a great deal on an off-road ready Tacoma or a half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's most capable and longest-lasting trucks. Built on a reputation for quality and reliability, Toyota trucks are known for holding their value, which could mean big savings when it's time for your next Toyota. For a great deal today to a great value tomorrow, shop toyota.com. Toyota, let's go places.

• 40:27Speaker 00

  Behind every chart-topping hit, you know by heart there's an original. Writing it someplace where nobody was listening. Some basement, some bedroom, somebody with headphones on at 3:00 in the morning chasing a thing they couldn't even name yet. Behind the culture that marks a generation, there's an original. Already moving, already shaking things up, already looping that one bar, already off-tempo. On purpose, because on purpose was the point. Behind every night that changed the room, somebody had to walk in first. Not knowing it would land, but doing it anyway. Originals are out there, living stories worth telling. What's yours?

• 41:12Speaker 00

  Behind every original, live in Levi's.

• 41:22Speaker 00

  What is the first thing that you do in your day every morning? Do you have a morning routine?

• 41:27Speaker 02

  All right, so-

• 41:28Speaker 00

  Or are you happy to never, ever, ever, ever, ever again have a morning routine?

• 41:32Speaker 02

  No, I love getting up early.

• 41:34Speaker 00

  What time do you normally get up?

• 41:36Speaker 02

  It depends. Sometimes it's 4:30, sometimes it's 5:30, sometimes it's 6 o'clock. Right? That was my joint forever. But now, like this year, this is like the first time that I've really been like saying yes to me more, I get up and go back to sleep.

• 41:52Speaker 00

  Guilt-free?

• 41:53Speaker 02

  Guilt-free.

• 41:54Speaker 00

  Without feeling that you just let somebody down for sleeping?

• 41:57Speaker 02

  No, I'm gonna break, I'm gonna break something down to you that I learned. I learned that the idea of this, um, go hard, don't sleep, don't chill mentality, that's all marketing and some bullshit.

• 42:10Speaker 00

  To keep us working.

• 42:11Speaker 02

  Think about this. Not even that, just the people that would tell you that on social media, and it's the idea, the power of marketing. I sit here and I say, "Damn, okay." When I think about everything that I do, I realize that I had a process of three to nine, because people be like, "Wow, I see you on..." For years, people be like, "Wow, I see you on Instagram all the time, you on there every day, all the time." I'm like, "No." And I say to myself, I used to always say to myself, "You see me on Instagram maybe three minutes a day." And they'd be like, "Was you..." "Oh, them three videos was only a minute, a piece." I've been, I filmed them the day before, or whenever, I posted them, whatever. Like, everybody don't understand that.

• 42:52Speaker 02

  A lot of stuff that you do is already organized way before. I believe in the three and a nine mentality. I believe in three and nine. And this is why it's three and nine. Three months, you work, nine months, you chill. This is, this is me. This is me. Break it down.

• 43:07Speaker 00

  Wait, what?

• 43:08Speaker 02

  Three months, you work, nine months, you chill. In the process of it, right? Because, say for instance, you said something one time, I was reading in a magazine when I was in prison, you was like, "The album is just a flyer to tour." You said that years ago, like 2016.

• 43:23Speaker 00

  It is.

• 43:23Speaker 02

  2026. I mean, 2016, yeah, whatever. Because it's already done. But think about how that thing that y'all took, we have a time to create. Everything is opened up for y'all. The work is already, that's the work.

• 43:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:37Speaker 02

  That is really the work. So say if you say, "Okay, let me sit here, January, February, and March, we're shooting 20 episodes a month, it's gonna walk us through the whole year." Just say, y'all say that. I'm just saying. I'm not giving J. G. them no ideas. I don't want to beat you up. Don't give me-

• 43:56Speaker 00

  Look, I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna tell you something. Great. You, you guys are watching me in real time, like nine people in this room, and however many hundred, whatever, million, whatever the number is, like, you're watching me have a real-life breakthrough. There's a particular artist, music artist, that made a decision, you know what? Same thing. I work my ass off, I'm gonna see if I can get through 2026 the way I want to get through 2026. And this artist could easily just cashing it in, chasing it, and I get it.

• 44:36Speaker 00

  I, we've all been trained, I mean, hip-hop in itself is hustle culture. And they tell me, you know what? I learned the power of no and scarcity marketing, and I decided, you know what? I'm gonna, and my first question was, why would you even, at the, at the rate where you, your market rate per show? Like, if I had a chance to at least gross like nine figures, two and a half hours every night, singing songs I wrote, like, I, because I've been trained to do that.

• 45:15Speaker 02

  Don't stop. Go.

• 45:16Speaker 00

  And, and they said, "I want to prioritize my sanity, my happiness." And I looked at them like they were crazy. This was three days ago. Three days ago, after I'm trying to preach to the world about the power of metaphysics and all that stuff, and here's my Earth, Wind & Fire film to, to, to get you, you know, this is my contribution to it, but like secretly behind a curtain, I'm still that person. And it gobsmacked me that they chose themselves over, like, you're at the one-yard line.

• 45:54Speaker 00

  I know five people in my life that told me the night before final exams, they decided, forget graduation, college graduation, like, these are straight-A students. And I'm like, "Why would you not just, just grab the brass ring and..." And they were just like, "This wasn't me. I was living my parents' dream and all that stuff." And man, I, I, so, yes, the one artist spoke to me about, "I'm only gonna do nine shows a year. If you want me, you know what price I want. I'm gonna do nine shows a year that would be the equivalent of what would happen if I just dragged myself to death doing 75 shows around the world and losing myself."

• 46:39Speaker 00

  And I understood, but even on the ride home, I still wasn't sure that I would choose my sanity over, it's, it's like De Niro in Heat.

• 46:54Speaker 02

  Never get attached to anything. You can't walk away from 60 seconds flat if you feel the heat coming around the corner.

• 46:58Speaker 00

  But he had to go back to that hotel just for one, like, if he just-

• 47:03Speaker 02

  He had to.

• 47:03Speaker 00

  And, and like, that's what I'm, that's what I'm wrestling with.

• 47:07Speaker 02

  No, listen, I just want to say this to you. That's all I'm gonna say. This was the first year since I've been home that I enjoyed me. Because I was everything for everybody else. When I tell you, to this day, like, do you know this morning? I knew I had to be here from Philly, because I usually stay in Miami. Love it there. So I had to be here. So I woke up 6:00 something, I said, "Let me put the clock back on for 8:30." I went back to sleep, chill, jumped in the shower, jumped in the car, and rode up here. But listen, in the process, and listen, just think about this. I'm saying to myself, "I'm gonna get there." And the time is like right there, I ain't, you know? But this year, the year-

• 47:55Speaker 02

  It smells different. The air smells extremely different. The food tastes way better. Because I'm not rushing to get to nowhere no more. I'm not rushing. I talked to my grandma. My grandma will be ninety-two September thirtieth. She's still wearing New Balance walk around. Real live Philly. She's a real live Philly Jonah this day. Talk to you, what?

• 48:15Speaker 00

  There it is.

• 48:16Speaker 02

  Like, I said, nanny. How long did it take? How was it? How long? She said, boy, it was fast. She faster than I think. Ninety-two, right? She said, it seemed like everything like it was too quick. So I'm sitting here to say to myself, like, the way I look at this game of life, nobody is really paying no attention to it. And I'm gonna just break it down to you. Life is a game, it's four quarters. You got birth to twenty, that's quarter one. Twenty-one to forty, that's quarter two. Once you get to forty, that's when the halftime show. That's when you get to go back to the locker room and look at the scoreboard and say, is life kicking my ass or I'm kicking life ass? You gotta look at the scoreboard of life, right? And then, once you go back on that field, right?

• 49:00Speaker 02

  Because you ain't got that much time at the halftime show. When you go back on that field, you gotta say, damn, how I'm gonna put myself in position in this third quarter? And that third quarter is from forty-one to sixty. Some people might get ejected from the game of life before they get to sixty. They might not go to the fourth quarter of life. And then you got from sixty-one to eighty. And in that process, hopefully you can make it to eighty, but most people don't never finish that fourth quarter of life. And then the people that do get to eighty and move on, that's overtime. My grandmom's in overtime right now. Let's just be realistic. It's eight point three people on the planet.

• 49:42Speaker 02

  In the next fifty years, half of the planet is gonna be dead. The baby that was born today is a baby that was born today that's gonna be fifty years old. I'm forty-seven. The chances of me still being here, it's not that, you know, I'm gonna be somewhere else.

• 49:57Speaker 00

  Don't manifest yourself, man.

• 49:58Speaker 02

  I'm just being real.

• 49:59Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 50:00Speaker 02

  I'm being real. Like, you gotta think about this. When you look at life, right? I'm gonna show you something. When you look at life, everybody be playing, so we never enjoy ourself because we trying to enjoy everybody else. So what happened is, we find ourself in a, we find ourself in situations where as though we working for the world, but we ain't working for us. When you gonna start working for you? Right here, real time. Grab that. Real time. You see that? You see that? You see how many people died today?

• 50:28Speaker 00

  This is a live.

• 50:30Speaker 02

  That's world meters. You see how many people died today? You see how many people was born today? How many people died today?

• 50:37Speaker 00

  Thirty-four million, seven hundred and eighty.

• 50:39Speaker 02

  No, no, that's probably the year.

• 50:41Speaker 00

  Oh, deaths this year. Oh, today, um, they keep, oh, eighty, eight, it won't stop. Eighty-seven thousand. It's just every three seconds.

• 50:55Speaker 02

  How many people died this year?

• 50:57Speaker 00

  Thirty-four million, seven hundred and eighty thousand, two hundred and sixty-nine, seventy-seven, one, two hundred and eighty.

• 51:03Speaker 02

  Now, what I'm saying to say to you, Quest, is this. Only thing that's guaranteed to us is our death date. And we don't know when that shit is. We don't know.

• 51:10Speaker 00

  It's overwhelming, just to.

• 51:12Speaker 02

  It's overwhelming, but the reality is, reality is, I don't know why the food tastes way better this year for me. But I guess I do. Because I started being, I started saying, no. I'm tired, let me go to sleep. I get to that later. I stop rushing to go nowhere. Like, I'm gonna get there. So at the end of the day, you will sit here and you will choose everybody. This is what yes to you and no to them is about. It's about, when is you gonna stop being a yes man to everybody? And when is you gonna start being a no? Like, because the only people that get a pass, all right, no. And this is why, this is why it's so corny. Like, adults be so corny, right? This is why adults be so corny. The only people that adults, the only human beings on this planet

• 51:54Speaker 02

  that adults were swift and so bad and tough to say no to is the kids. But a friend come up, a friend that you know that just wanna use you. Hey, I need you. All right, man. And then you feel bad about it because you wanted to say no, but you was a coward enough. You were so much of a coward, so you said yes. This is what yes to you, no to them is about. Because we living in a new world where as though manipulation is at its highest form. Nobody wanna speak about that. But now, everybody slick. When I grew up, the only people that was slick was the people in the streets. Now, everybody is slick. Everybody's gonna find a way to maneuver to try to make you, especially when they know you're a good person. I know how to make Quest feel bad. He's not gonna say no to me. And then my whole thing is, how many yeses do I owe you if you my friend?

• 52:39Speaker 02

  How many do I owe you? How many do I owe you, Quest? Is it a limit on yeses? Like, damn, I can't. And then when I say no, I'm the best. All right, well, listen. If you're gonna market me as a bad person in your mind, stop calling me, stop checking up all because I say no. Tell our other friends, yeah, man, I don't mess with Quest. I fell out with Quest. You're like, what? I ain't even know. You ain't even know you, just because you said no. Yeah, because he knew I needed him to do this. But what about the fifteen other things I did? No is the most disrespectful word in today's society. It's equivalent to spitting in somebody's face. Especially when you straightforward. Quest be like, yo, no, I can't do it, Quest, no. How dare you tell me that? How dare you tell me no? Who you think you is to tell me no? People think they entitled to yes.

• 53:23Speaker 02

  So now, as we talking about it, when are you gonna start using no more, Quest?

• 53:28Speaker 00

  I'm gonna tell you something. I was, damn, this is the most vulnerable I've ever been on this podcast. Five fifty-four AM, I was gonna cancel this interview.

• 53:39Speaker 02

  Uh-uh.

• 53:40Speaker 00

  I pride myself for my professionalism. Yes, the ten roots are rolling their eyes in the air because in root circles, I am often late. And that's psychological self-sabotage shit that I can easily fix with, you know, really set my mind to it. But I've never been so, I'm such a people pleaser. My reputation as being professional and overworking means more to me than me.

• 54:09Speaker 02

  Uh-huh.

• 54:10Speaker 00

  And I issued out a no that I've been ducking for seven months. Seven months of, and yes, I know the life perception is, like, for you, a no could be literally uttered in three seconds. For me, I gotta go home and ponder it. I gotta read a whole bunch of books. I gotta meditate on it. I gotta do affirmations. I gotta do, you know, whatever, protection. Like, not being liked or not letting people down is just one. You know, when we find a safety chip, we just stick to it.

• 54:54Speaker 00

  Even if it's to like the detriment of our lives, man. And last night was the moment where I came to grips with like, I gotta choose me and not feel bad about it. And I gotta tell somebody no. And I did it. But man, people that, see, the reason I want people to get close to me because I know, like, there's a part of me that is vulnerable and will easily show you how the machinery is made. And, yeah, okay, I'll DJ your party.

• 55:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'll write these liner notes for you. Yeah, I'll do your platform. Oh, man, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta fucking do all the music clearance for this entire movie? All right, let me shape, push around my big cake. All right, well, I could do that next year. And, and I said it. And then I apologized for ninety minutes for saying it. As human beings, we're so, like, pre-programmed to people please that even when you do the right thing for yourself, it's such a foreign thing. Like, why we hate going to the gym?

• 56:20Speaker 00

  Or why you hate eating the right foods or all those things? It's like, because we're programmed to just go against our own interest, man. And like, advocate for myself and saying the word no. Like, it's almost like I had to take a day off just to see what it felt like to be this new version of me.

• 56:39Speaker 02

  Can I play something for you?

• 56:41Speaker 00

  Hit me.

• 56:42Speaker 02

  I didn't know this was yours, but this was meant for you. I didn't even know. That's what's so crazy about it.

• 56:48Speaker 05

  Your no? What you explaining your no for? Did you ever explain all them yeses you gave? All them yeses you gave somebody? Did you explain the reason you gave all them yeses? No. You never explained, you just say yes and they keep going. Yes, you could borrow money. Yes, I could be at your event. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And they never, I'm talking about never, never did you break down the yes. Did you? Did you explain a yes to them?

• 57:09Speaker 02

  No.

• 57:10Speaker 05

  What you look like explaining the no? Huh? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You better not. You be- you, you, you better not. You better not explain no, no. What you explaining no for? You don't have to explain no, no. No is because you don't want to do it. That's it. You don't want to do it, so you said no. Don't be sitting there giving nobody no explanation or trying to break down why the no, no, no. You got a right to say no. Just like you had a right to say yes, and you said yes, and they ain't asking no understanding of the yes. No. Stand on that no. No. You better not explain your no.

• 57:41Speaker 00

  I was afraid that you were going to teach me this lesson today. I had to. And once again, Questlove uses this platform

• 57:51Speaker 00

  to fix his life. Ah, man. I

• 57:59Speaker 00

  Did I just ruin the show? No. No.

• 58:04Speaker 00

  I needed this, man. I'm glad you came.

• 58:12Speaker 00

  Questlove Show is hosted by me, Amir Questlove Thompson. The executive producers are Sean G., Brian Calhoun, and me.

• 58:22Speaker 00

  Produced by Brittany Benjamin and Jake Payne. Produced for iHeart by Noel Brown.

• 58:30Speaker 00

  Edited by Alex Conroy. iHeart video support by Mark Canton. Logos, graphics, and animation by Nick Alois. Additional support by Lance Coleman.

• 58:44Speaker 00

  Special thanks to Kathy Braun.

• 58:47Speaker 00

  Special thanks to Sugar Steve Mandel.

• 58:50Speaker 00

  Please subscribe, rate, review, and share The Questlove Show wherever you stream your podcasts. Make sure you follow us on socials. That's at Q L S. Check out hundreds and hundreds of Q L S episodes, including The Questlove Supreme Shows and our podcast archives.

• 59:10Speaker 00

  Questlove Show is a production of iHeart Radio.

• 59:26Speaker 05

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  Behind every chart-topping hit, you know by heart there's an original. Writing it someplace where nobody was listening. Behind the culture that marks a generation, there's an original. Already moving, already shaking things up. Behind every night that changed the room, somebody had to walk in first. Not knowing it would land, but doing it anyway. Originals are out there. Living stories worth telling. What's yours? Behind every original, live in Levi's.

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  Honestly?

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  What's that? My fresh detector. Uh, your what? There it is. What is it detecting? Fresh produce, fresh meat. Okay, what happens if it detects something really fresh?

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  Apparently, we celebrate. At Food Lion, you can count on fresh food at fresher prices. When your fresh detector is going off, head to your local Food Lion or shop at foodlion.com. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.