QLS Classic: Dr. Mathew Knowles

You may think you know the story of mega manager, label owner, and queen maker, Dr. Matthew Knowles, but there is so much more

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Questlove?

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• 3:05Questlove?

  Questlove Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio. What's up, y'all? This is Questlove, and in our recent finale episode of Team Supreme, I mentioned that one of my most underrated episodes of QLS is this particular one right here. This QLS classic conversation with Dr. Matthew Knowles, father to Beyonce and Solange. Oh, I love this 2021 episode for so many reasons. You know, Dr. Knowles got incredibly real, speaking openly about the trauma he's faced and how therapy helped him heal and grow.

• 3:46Questlove?

  He also shared very powerful moments about physical, mental, and emotional health. And this one kind of resonated with me. A little too much. Got emotional, which there's nothing wrong with that. And I believe it's going to help you, too. So here's an encore recap or redo of the Dr. Matthew Knowles episode of Questlove Supreme. Enjoy. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Questlove Supreme. I'm your host, Questlove.

• 4:31Questlove?

  We have Team Supreme with us right now. Fonte Gallo, how are you? I'm going to call you that forever. Fonte Gallo. Yeah, Fonte Gallo. I'm Ernest and Giulio Gallo's brother. Yes, exactly. Nah, I'm good, man. I'm good. I'm chilling. I'm still down, still down 31. I kind of hit like a plateau, so I think I'm kind of like, I weighed in the same thing like every week, but normally when I do that, the next week is like I have a big drop. So I'm seeing, but I'm still on it, man. Hey, I'm there with you, bro. I'm doing a quarter pound a week, so. Oh, really? That's what's up. I'm hitting a plateau right now.

• 5:16Questlove?

  I'm trying to hit that last 60, so. But you down like, shit, you low damn near 100, though, right? Yeah, 110. I'm going for, in total, 180. I'm trying to get down to 200 and 8 pounds. You trying to come out the house looking like Idris Chestnut, nigga? Yes. Is that why Morris Chestnut's trending today all of a sudden? Out the blue? Anyway, Steve, how are you?

• 5:45Speaker 06

  Hello, everybody. Nice to be here.

• 5:47Questlove?

  That's good.

• 5:48Speaker 06

  I'm doing fine, you know.

• 5:49Questlove?

  I gotta ask you, how you doing?

• 5:51Speaker 06

  Yeah, I'm doing good. I'm just waiting for people to applaud it after you say my name, but that didn't happen.

• 5:57Questlove?

  Right. That's your golf clap right there. Laya? Yeah. You're fine? I'm good, and I'm cold and negative. I'm good. As of yet last week. Yeah. You gotta say that. When you're vaccinated, you still, yeah, because I visited a couple of places last week, and I was like, I was in Nashville. He was a little nervous. Yeah, I was like. You know what? I'm one of those people that fell, I'm one of those people that fall asleep, and I'm too lazy to change the air conditioning situation. And, you know, if you're a couple that really doesn't agree on the proper temperature of a particular room, you know, I'll go to sleep, and you'll sneak and put it on air, and then I'll sneak and put it on heat and whatnot.

• 6:42Questlove?

  Yeah, so last week I woke up with the flu, and you know, I was out of my mind, right? Like, I caught it, but, you know. You're so old and black, you still blaming the flu on stuff like that? It ain't from that. Okay, or maybe I got it. I don't know. Yeah, somebody just touched it. It had the flu. I took like six, no, I took six tests. I definitely don't have it. Ladies and gentlemen, I will say that we've been on the air, what, this is our fifth anniversary? Almost? Yeah, almost. Knocking on it, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of weird that we've been doing this for five years. I still feel like we're on our second or third year. Anyway, we've been on the air for about five seasons, and I'll say that the seed, the

• 7:26Questlove?

  seed of this episode was probably planted, I know that Solange was definitely one of the first 20 episodes. I think she was like episode 15 or something like that. Yeah, she was super early, yeah. Yeah, and she planted the seeds in that episode, basically that her dad wasn't just some random backstage dad, but rather an accomplished gentleman with both his MBA and his PhD in business. Doctor. Yeah, doctor and master. But she also led us down the rabbit hole of his involvement in the civil rights movement,

• 8:06Questlove?

  and basically just told us of the struggle and the sacrifice that it took to ensure that the Knowles legacy lived on forever in the history books, not only with her sister, but, yeah, as in her father and the rest of the family. I'm beyond certain that they are in mission-accomplished land right now, a hundredfold, as far as being in the history books. He's the creator of Music World Entertainment. He's a movie producer, a college professor, successful kids, label imprint, exec, recording studio mogul, real estate tycoon, cannabis company owner. Yes. Oh, wow.

• 8:50Questlove?

  Did everything but run for president. Right, exactly. He even has his own podcast. Like, our first conversation was me being a guest on his podcast. Not to mention, you know, he is a cancer survivor, breast cancer survivor, and, you know, incidentally, father of two of the most dauntless and dominant artists recording music today. Whoever those two people are, I don't know. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome, finally, to Questlove Supreme, Dr. Matthew Knowles. Yes, sir.

• 9:28Speaker 07

  Hey, Questlove. Dada doo. Thank you for the introduction, brother. I have much respect for you, so thank you for allowing me having this opportunity. It was a little tough. We had a little ups and starts and stops, but that's life.

• 9:43Questlove?

  Yeah, we doing it. We doing it. We do the best you can in a pandemic, bro. Whatever. It was a commitment. We were committed. I will say that you made the introduction easy, because sometimes I have to add a lot more broth to the soup than, you know, than deserved. You, you know, you came well-stocked. You know, I didn't have to add any more flourishing words to your impressive resume. Where are you speaking to us right now from? You're?

• 10:17Speaker 07

  California.

• 10:18Questlove?

  Ooh, it's great.

• 10:19Speaker 07

  In my office, we have a corporate home here, as well as in Houston. But I'm just, I love here because I get to, you know, when I was, I would just share this story today. 15 years ago, I was in my office at Sony at 550 Madison. You guys know where that is. And the president told me they had just hired head of A&R, paid him $5 million a year. And I asked him, I said, why the hell did you hire this guy? And he said, to look out the window. And it took me five, about seven years to understand truly what he meant by looking

• 11:02Speaker 07

  out of the window, that creative space we all get into. And here it allows me to just look out the window.

• 11:11Questlove?

  And you're seeing that, that sort of environment of looking out the window, and that's where the ideas come into play, or just?

• 11:20Speaker 07

  Absolutely. That's where the ideas come. That's where, you know, I work now, my biggest thing that I work on, I'm very Very grateful, the success of my kids and, and the success I had in corporate America and the music industry. But I work, I work on happiness. That's the number one thing I work, I work on each and every day is happiness.

• 11:44Speaker 02

  How long it took you to figure that out?

• 11:46Speaker 07

  It took me damn near sixty some years to figure that out. Uh, you know, we worked so hard to get plaques and be number one. And then we find ourselves in a space that we lack happiness. And, and, and that's what I work on. How can I be happy? And, and part of that is gratitude and not doing a damn thing I don't want to do. Man, listen, oh, wow.

• 12:15Speaker 02

  That's a good mantra.

• 12:16Questlove?

  That's the episode right there. Thank you very much. That was quite close to.

• 12:21Speaker 02

  You got a manifesto and mantra.

• 12:23Speaker 07

  I remember, man, I remember watching your interview, you, uh, when you were on Breakfast Club. And, you know, you were talking with Charlamagne and you were saying the way, it was when you had just put out your book, uh, which I really enjoyed, The DNA of Achievers, the one that you did. And, uh, you were talking about how, you know, people compare Beyonce versus Solange or whatever. And you were saying how every artist has to develop success on their own terms for what they mean to be successful. And, um, I was curious, like, how did you learn that lesson in your career? Like, how did you, you know, uh, how did you make that realization? Well, I had really great parents and they were poor. But I never knew we were poor until I got older in life.

• 13:05Speaker 07

  And they instilled in me the same thing that I instilled in my kids. And that is you can dream and dream big because the same efforts and energy on a little small idea is the same energy and efforts on a big idea. So my parents, you know, I watched them work their day job, but yet be entrepreneurs on the weekends and at night. My daddy was a, a truck driver by day, working for white folks. And by night, he convinced the white folks to let him use the truck all the time. And he would tear down houses and sell the metals and sell the wood. Sell the scrap, yeah. And, yeah, scrap metal, yeah. And I see you know that, man.

• 13:50Speaker 07

  I'm from North Carolina, so I'm, I'm, this is home for me. But together.

• 13:56Speaker 07

  Well, we make wine. So, nah, I'm familiar.

• 14:01Speaker 02

  What is your mother, what was her gig? You said your mom, your dad?

• 14:03Speaker 07

  Well, my mother was a colored, a colored maid. My dad made thirty dollars a week as a truck driver. My mom made fifteen dollars a week as a colored maid. She convinced the, the white woman she worked for to give her all of her hand me, hand me down clothes. And on, and, and convinced her to ask her, her friends to give her the hand me down clothes. And on the weekend, my mom and a couple of her best friends would make these beautiful quilts and sell them.

• 14:39Speaker 07

  So I, I saw entrepreneurship. My grandfather was on both sides and grandmother on both sides were entrepreneurs. So entrepreneurship is part of our tradition in our family. Where did you grow up? What, uh, what, where was this in the south? Gaston, Alabama. It's Alabama, gotcha. It was a small town, you know, I grew up on a dirt road with an outside bathroom until I was about thirteen, fourteen years old.

• 15:08Questlove?

  An outhouse?

• 15:09Speaker 07

  An outhouse.

• 15:11Questlove?

  Wow, okay.

• 15:13Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 15:13Questlove?

  I have a question. You said something really crucial at the top. Well, you said two crucial things. One, to find happiness, which, you're right, that's, that's something that we learn later in life. I noticed, I think last week, I forgot what I, I was watching. But I will say that one of the biggest mistakes that I think the average black household instills, and, you know, this is not strictly just black households, I know this is a universal thought, is oftentimes, parents will tell their kids, you know, it's better to be safe than sorry. Or, you know, have, have a plan B, have a plan C. But, you know, oftentimes, when you said that, you know, following your dreams, especially,

• 15:59Questlove?

  um, when you're living kind of in, in, in a, a poverty level, or at least below what, what the, um, what the average, what the average income is for, for survival, for whatever time period you're speaking of. I know that, um, oftentimes, when people are in fight or flight modes for survival, they often think that daydreaming is kind of a waste of time. I sort of, I sort of grew up and my, my family structure was definitely more about survival than anything. My actual inner family, like my, my mother, my father, of course, they were like the dreamers of, my father was like one of nine kids.

• 16:43Questlove?

  So, you know, kind of like, I'll say that his family was more or less about survival and in terms of getting a good job, making good money, surviving. And he pursued his dream. So how much of a risk is it when you are living in a situation in which you might not know where your next meal is coming from or that sort of thing?

• 17:09Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 17:09Questlove?

  Like, can, most, most people can't, or it feels as though they, they can't afford to daydream when they have bills to pay and that sort of thing. So how do you, like, how, what was different about your situation than the average household?

• 17:25Speaker 07

  Well, I, I share what my parents did. I like to use the word rather than survival, survival, uh, determination. Uh, they, they were determined. They, they weren't passionate about doing their day job. That was more determination to provide, just like you just said. It was a means to an end. Right. But, but my parents, you know, I think in the day, daydreaming process, at, at least for me with my kids, it was always about finding that thing you were passionate about and, and how soon and how early, uh, you can find that passion.

• 18:07Speaker 07

  And if you think about, when we think about, uh, the Williams sisters or Michael Jordan or Michael Jackson or Tiger Woods, they found their passion very, very early. And so my parents gave me that, that space, gave me that, that ability to daydream, uh, and supported it. Just like I supported my kids with whatever their passion. And I always say, you know, had Beyonce or Solange both said, daddy, I wanna, I wanna be a doctor, I would have supported that. I would have sent them to a school of, of, that had science.

• 18:48Speaker 07

  I would have gone to the, you know, library, let them read about science and medicine and surround them with that. But I would have said though, once you get your, your, your license and graduate from med school, your dad would, will have bought a hospital. Think about that. It was never you gonna work for somebody. It was, you're gonna be in a position of, of entrepreneurship and wealth. Which, as black people, we don't, we, we always hesitate and, and shy about talking about building wealth.

• 19:26Speaker 02

  Not anymore.

• 19:28Questlove?

  Yeah, yeah. I, you know, I, I admit that in my personal situation, like, you know, and even now, I, I still wrestle with that. Cause, you know, I come from West Philadelphia. And I mean, like, you can attest to this, like, I'm, when I'm in Philadelphia, I still feel the need to drive my first raggedy car. I, I, I have sentimental value to it, but of course, you know, I also have a grown man's car. I have a Maybach, but.

• 19:56Speaker 07

  And you have an Oscar winning documentary we put this in the world. Quit trying to play broke, nigga.

• 20:06Speaker 02

  And guess what, Derek? Quit trying to play broke and also break us down how you diversify because all, some of us are trying to get there because it's dope the way that you do, the way you do with the products.

• 20:16Speaker 07

  With all your 51 jobs, yeah.

• 20:18Speaker 02

  I'm with Matthew on that.

• 20:19Questlove?

  No, but here's the thing though, here's, okay, so again, well, you, you two have been following me the last year. So, you know, I've kind of been running the same narrative on the show. I'm now learning that, okay, when I, when I was doing the nineteen job thing, where I said yes to everything, nineteen, yeah, I'll do that, I'll produce that.

• 20:41Questlove?

  Uh, according to so, someone nameless, uh, she said that that was me being the mayor. She's like, you enjoy being the mayor, like the mayor is the person that is sort of like the super of the apartment, you know? Like bookman, like fixing the pipes and I'll, I'll fix your electricity, da, da, da, da. And she's like, first of all, you know, because you're in fight or flight mode, you know, that's why you keep saying yes to everything. And she's like, it's the moment you let those things go and give yourself a chance to breathe and look out the window. Which is why, when he said looking out the window, I knew exactly what he meant. Because, you know, I finally discovered that look out the window moment during the pandemic, you know?

• 21:26Speaker 07

  Now, the person who said this was this, did their names start with G and rhyme with race?

• 21:31Questlove?

  Yes, it was Grace, so.

• 21:33Speaker 07

  P S, P S, why didn't we pick up on this looking out the window thing when Good Times came on? Because we knew that what they were looking at was not motivating. Yeah, that was depressing. That's what they were telling us though. Just looking out of the window watching the asphalt roll.

• 21:46Questlove?

  No, but it's, it's, it's daydreaming. You know, there's a really interesting episode of Soul Train. In seventy-five, Don Cornelius asks, you know, at this point, Michael Jackson's like seventeen. And, um, you know, it's like his senior year of high school. So, you know, Don is joking with Michael Jackson about like him and Danny Bonaduce in the same high school and how Danny always gets in trouble and Mike doesn't get in trouble. And, you know, he asked Mike, like, what do you do in your spare time? Like, as a seventeen-year-old? And Mike had a very, very interesting answer that I used to always laugh at until now. Mike's first answer was, you know, I just like to sit and daydream.

• 22:28Questlove?

  Which, right, that sounded silly, but I didn't realize the importance of daydreaming. That, that, that puts your mind space in the, in the space of achievement. And if you, you know, if you follow Michael Jackson's career, especially in the Spike Lee documentaries, like, he was world famous for, like, documenting his daydreams. One day, I want to achieve, and then I want to be the, and what? So, I'm realizing that now, you know, in, in this late stage of my life. But, you know, I, I, I really wish I could, I could hone in and, and tell people, at least listen to this episode, how it's so important to encourage your kids to dream,

• 23:12Questlove?

  to, you know, real, really take the time out to sit in silence and to, to daydream. Because, you know, I, I kind of came from a school where it was like, you know, a bird in the hand, bees doing the bush, and, you know.

• 23:26Speaker 07

  Right.

• 23:27Questlove?

  You know, if you don't work, you can't eat. Like, all those idioms that my grandmom used to say, like, wake up, boy, and, you know, that, that ain't gonna feed itself, that sort of thing. Like, I grew up in that sort of household when my parents were on the road. And, you know, I, I always thought, like, you can't afford to daydream, like, you gotta work to survive. And now I'm realizing it's the, the opposite, so.

• 23:49Speaker 06

  And, and daydreaming allows us also to visualize, to visualize where we can be, be in a future. Because if we don't, if we don't visualize and see it, like, people ask me all the time, like, did you ever think that, you know, Destiny's Child, or Beyonce, or Solange would be as successful? Absolutely, I used to visualize it. I actually used to see it. Uh, and, and that's one of the things that, daydreaming and just taking time out sometimes, just like you just said, Questlove, uh, just to take time out. And the older I get, uh, and I think it also has to do, as you get older and experience

• 24:32Speaker 06

  life more, uh, you begin to see life differently. Uh, I'm, you know, I'll be seventy years old in five months.

• 24:42Speaker 07

  Hey. Good.

• 24:44Questlove?

  Congratulations.

• 24:45Speaker 06

  And, and so, I'm a reality, I'm in reality mode that, uh, you know, you know, time is, is, my window is getting short. And, and so I see life differently as well, so that's part of it.

• 24:59Questlove?

  Well, you just reminded me that it's gonna be two thousand twenty-two in five months. Like, in my mind, it's, it might be May. I was doing the math, I'm like, wait a minute, no, you was born in January, that's like next year. And now I'm realizing that.

• 25:14Speaker 07

  January is next year.

• 25:15Questlove?

  Exactly. Oh, no, that's bad.

• 25:19Speaker 07

  Can I, can I ask a question about your upbringing a little bit? Because I know that one of the, the things that brought, uh, folks to the attention of how kind of dope you are, for lack of a better term, was the Solange album. And when you do the piece, Big Dad's Got the Right to Be Mad, which she wrote, but it's your story. And it made me think about you talking about fantasy and how you basically were raised in, yeah, you can, you can fantasize, but you also have this reality in your face of being like a first. Can you just talk about, like, that piece and?

• 25:48Speaker 06

  Yeah, I, I tell you, people just don't know, uh, Solange, uh, Solange, you know, we made a big, big mistake on her first album. You know, Solange was fifteen?

• 26:02Speaker 07

  Was that the Hadley Street Dreams record?

• 26:04Speaker 06

  No, no, no, that was, that was a great record.

• 26:07Speaker 07

  That was a great record.

• 26:08Speaker 06

  Uh, solo star.

• 26:09Speaker 07

  Oh, the solo star, right.

• 26:10Speaker 06

  Solo star.

• 26:11Speaker 07

  Got you.

• 26:12Speaker 06

  You know, I, I made a big mistake, Columbia Records made a big mistake, uh, of trying to make her something she really wasn't. And, and trying to make her a pop artist, uh, and that's not really who she is. And it was with Hadley Street Dream, Dreams, that she really took a stand about her artistry. And she was right.

• 26:37Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 26:38Speaker 06

  And, and she wrote her way and performed her way out of the shadow of her sister. You know, we used to say, and Beyonce's little sister, Solange, people don't say that anymore. And, and people don't even know that Kelly Rowland's first album, which people don't know Kelly Rowland either, most people don't know Kelly Rowland's album, uh, first album sold four million records outside of America. Four million. And that album, half of it, Solange wrote.

• 27:13Questlove?

  Right.

• 27:15Speaker 06

  Or the songs she wrote for Beyonce, or Destiny's Child, or all the other many artists. So, so, you know, I, I really, uh, look back, you know, it's crazy because the next book I'm, I'm doing is called When I Look Back. Uh, but when I look back, that's the one thing I'm proud, is that Solange stood up for her artist, her artistic expression and to become part of the process. Because, you know, when you're small, you're young, rather, you don't become, you don't really get an opportunity to be part of the process. So I'm proud of Solange.

• 27:54Speaker 07

  I still wanted you to just talk about the interlude, though, with the, you got the right to be mad, and how you felt when she came to you and said she wanted you to be.

• 28:02Speaker 06

  Well, it was, it was really a, a, a interesting moment. What you don't know is Solange orchestrated, I had never, uh, seen my former wife from, since our divorce. And we actually didn't know it, but we walked into a room in New Orleans. And so that, that was a, a, a special moment in itself, you know? You know, Solange, uh, with her creativity, uh, she knew how to, to, I think she knew also how to, to bring something out of me, uh, and, and took me back to my childhood,

• 28:45Speaker 06

  which, uh, as a child, uh, I never went to a black school. Growing up in Gaston, Alabama, George Wallace, Al, uh, the, the governor, Al Lingo, uh, you, you, my, my age from Alabama, you know that name, because this guy was over the state troopers. You know, it was really tough for me, being the very first, uh, one of the first, and, and going to a Catholic elementary school in Gaston, Alabama. Who, who, who does that?

• 29:18Speaker 07

  That means they can hit you.

• 29:19Speaker 06

  Who, who does that? You know? And, and then going to a junior high school with a thousand white kids and first days, you know, George Wallace had this thing about freedom of choice. You can go to any school you want to, but you're on your damn own. Don't ask me to save you, support you.

• 29:42Speaker 07

  Protect you, anything.

• 29:43Speaker 06

  Protect you, you're on your own. So that, that, those were tough times, being one of the first. And my mother was so frightened in, in my junior high that she actually took a job in, uh, uh, at the school.

• 29:58Speaker 07

  I know that's right.

• 29:59Speaker 06

  In the lunchroom.

• 30:00Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 30:01Speaker 06

  So that she could be there as a cook, so she could be there with her, her child. Because we didn't, we never knew what was gonna happen. We got in fights, you know, the white kids would circle us, and here we are in the middle of a fight. We, we didn't know what was gonna happen that day.

• 30:17Speaker 07

  And Mr. Knows, were you an only child at this time? Do you have any brothers or sisters?

• 30:21Speaker 06

  Well, you know, I have, you know, my brother i- has passed on. He was nine years older, and my sister, who my parents adopted, uh, is nine years younger. So we all, in a way, were the only child.

• 30:37Speaker 07

  Cause I always experienced some stuff by y'all's self.

• 30:40Speaker 06

  Yeah, right.

• 30:41Speaker 02

  Ready to feel more energized and in control of your health? If you've tried diet and exercise but still aren't seeing the results you're looking for, it may be time to explore a different approach. At orderlymeds.com, you can connect with licensed medical providers through a simple virtual process, all from the comfort of home. And find out if a GLP-1 treatment may be right for you. Learn more at orderlymeds.com. That's orderlymeds.com. Compounded medications are not FDA-approved. Eligibility determined by a licensed provider. Individual results may vary. See website for details.

• 31:13Speaker 03

  Hey, it's Niall Rogers, host of Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series. I'm driving across the country, meeting some of today's most fascinating artists. We're exploring the stories before the moment that changed everything. This week, I'm joined by Miguel.

• 31:33Speaker 07

  My small experience with the discrepancy in the business of music made me angry in the best way, and I wanted to, I wanted to finish. So I started really, like, leaning into my therapy, trying to get down to, like, what matters now. Somewhere, Miguelito felt like he didn't have a place to say how he felt. And music was the place that I went to, to say how I felt.

• 31:55Speaker 03

  Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series.

• 31:59Speaker 07

  On the iHeart Radio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Hoda Kotb from Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb. Halloween has a funny way of making you buy things you'd never normally buy. A 10-foot skeleton? Sure. A full-size fog machine? Why not? Three bags of candy that somehow become six bags of candy? It happens. Which brings me to the Chase Freedom Flex Card. The savvy decision that will earn you more cash back on the everyday purchases, plus the extra ordinary Halloween tricks and treats. With Freedom Flex, you earn even more treats on your Halloween and everyday needs. You get 5% cash back on popular rotating quarterly categories, 3% on dining and drugstores, and 1% on all other purchases.

• 32:44Speaker 07

  More ways to earn, more ways to get rewarded. That's no tricks, all treats. More ways to earn, more ways to get rewarded. So sign up for the Chase Freedom Flex Card. Learn more at chase.com/getflex. This is a paid collaboration with Chase Freedom Flex. Cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank, N.A. Member FDIC. Subject to credit approval. Offer subject to change. Terms apply.

• 33:09Questlove?

  Behind every chart-topping hit, you know by heart there's an original. Writing it someplace where nobody was listening. Some basement, some bedroom, somebody with headphones on at 3:00 in the morning chasing a thing they couldn't even name yet. Behind the culture that marks a generation, there's an original. Already moving, already shaking things up, already looping that one bar, already off-tempo, on purpose, because on purpose was the point. Behind every night that changed the room, somebody had to walk in first. Not knowing it would land, but doing it anyway. Originals are out there, living stories worth telling. What's yours?

• 33:54Questlove?

  Behind every original, live in Levi's.

• 33:59Speaker 04

  Instagram teen accounts have automatic protections for what teens see and who can contact them, plus time management tools. And Instagram will continue adding built-in safety features to help create age-appropriate experiences. Learn more about teen accounts and Instagram's ongoing work to protect teens online at instagram.com/teenaccounts.

• 34:31Questlove?

  When do you consider, Solange made a lot about your involvement in the civil rights period. Of course, you know, if you're in Gadsden, Alabama, as a elementary school student, I'm certain that every day was a day for civil rights. But when do you consider your actual entry into participating in the civil rights period?

• 34:58Speaker 06

  It would be my first demonstration. You know, most people, Questlove, don't realize how young we were as kids participating in demonstrations. And when the state troopers were beating, they didn't care if you were a woman, a man, or a child. And so, in that period of leaving a church, going to a Penny's store and sitting at the counter there in the cafeteria, and state troopers coming, people running, screaming, those were the experiences.

• 35:39Speaker 06

  I've been beaten, I've been spit on, I've been electric-prided. And those of you that don't know what that is, it's like a tool.

• 35:48Questlove?

  It's a cattle prod, pretty much.

• 35:49Speaker 06

  Yeah, that's used for cattle. And they used that a lot, that electric prod on us. And it was really, I remember one time I was demonstrating, and they made the older men take off their shoes and walk barefoot. And it was like 100 degrees, so you can imagine that. Or when we would demonstrate, I remember many times at night, we would demonstrate at the courtroom, and we had no outside facilities. The ladies had to surround, the men had to dig holes in the dirt. We did what we had to do to survive.

• 36:33Speaker 06

  People don't realize what really went through that civil rights movement and how people risked their lives to get us to where we are today. That's why I still hold people accountable, because COVID and a lot of what's happened is because when Donald Trump ran for president, black folks, we didn't vote like we did eight years previous. And I must always hope and remind black folks the accountability of that.

• 37:07Questlove?

  I had to take a moment with Solange just to digest that. In terms of, well, when you were knee-deep in these protests or whatever, like, you're saying you did this at a young age, correct?

• 37:22Speaker 06

  Yes. I'm talking 12 years old, around that age.

• 37:26Questlove?

  So even then, you had the wherewithal to even comprehend what you were doing and why you were doing it? Did you, at 12, did you feel as though there was going to be an end game or a time period in which you wouldn't have to do this anymore?

• 37:45Speaker 06

  I just knew it was wrong. I was a child. My mother was an activist. My mother grew up in Marion, Alabama. My mother went to high school with Cora King and Andrew Young's wife. They all went to high school, the same grade, Lincoln Memorial High School in Marion, Alabama. By the way, we don't know the proper story. Now, if Martin Luther King and Andrew Young married these two women from Marion, which is about eight, nine miles from Selma.

• 38:24Questlove?

  Ah, okay.

• 38:26Speaker 06

  We don't know about Brother Jackson, who got hung in Marion. Because we talk about Selma, it really started in Marion. But not to get on that, but my mother was really engraved in the civil rights movement. So I understood a lot. When you're a kid, you don't totally understand it, but you know wrong and you know you're being treated differently. And I had to go to therapy, years of therapy, years of therapy for racial trauma. And if today, women can talk about things that happened 30, 40, 50 years ago

• 39:10Speaker 06

  as sexual trauma, then we have to acknowledge that also racial trauma impacts us.

• 39:18Questlove?

  When did you start that journey of going to therapy and addressing that? How old were you?

• 39:23Speaker 06

  This is my adult, I'm talking in 2004, 2005.

• 39:29Questlove?

  Yeah, that's fairly recent.

• 39:30Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 39:31Speaker 02

  Definitely a new trend for black men to talk about going to therapy.

• 39:34Speaker 06

  Yeah, I was in therapy for, I mean, back-to-back weekly therapy for almost 10 years. And at the beginning, didn't quite understand, because I had this personality, and still have to work on it, still have to work on it. This compulsive, compulsive personality, you know. I love, I don't know if that impacted cranes in the sky, but when Solange say, I drank too much, I danced too much, I partied too much, that was me. You know, I did everything too damn much.

• 40:16Questlove?

  Tried to drink it away, tried to.

• 40:18Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, that was me, and during that period, just compulsive. Got to do more, got to do more, got to do more, got to do more, not enough. And so, I had to come to grips with that. It actually cost me my marriage, that behavior. And I take responsibility and accountability for that. I don't run or hide from that. But, you know, it was, when I finally met and got a black male therapist, things changed for me.

• 40:54Questlove?

  How did you find one of them? Oh, my God. I've been looking for them forever.

• 40:58Speaker 02

  A couple websites don't find them.

• 41:02Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's one in Dallas, Texas, a brother there that really, really impacted. Because I had been going to a Jewish white woman from New York, who was traditional, you know, all the acronyms. And this brother said, no, no, let's go back to your childhood from a different perspective. What was the trauma? And the trauma was, you were a kid fearful of your life. The trauma was, you know, you were taught to feel not as equal, less than, that you had to do all of this stuff to get acknowledgement.

• 41:47Speaker 06

  And it's when I began to understand that better. And I still have to work on it.

• 41:53Questlove?

  Yeah.

• 41:54Speaker 06

  I can see I'm touching some things.

• 41:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, because.

• 41:57Questlove?

  Nah, bro, hey, this one is super. Wait, I'm gonna tell y'all, this is almost, I want you two to take over this interview, because like, you don't know, in my head, in my head right now, I'm like really trying to hold back the, like, this is shit I wish.

• 42:14Questlove?

  Like my, my main regret was like, right now, I'm just really overwhelmed.

• 42:19Speaker 02

  We just gotta start talking.

• 42:21Questlove?

  To hear a, a, an older black man.

• 42:24Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 42:24Questlove?

  Talk this way because like, I'm, in my head, I'm like, damn, man, like, this is shit. This is the evolution I wish my dad had went through before he passed away. Like, he kinda, he kinda landed the plane nicely, maybe in like the last, sort of like the last year of his life when he knew he was gonna leave, you know, and then we finally like, you know, cause like, black men just didn't talk about feelings.

• 42:49Speaker 02

  Well, especially boomers, like especially boomers, like I think Matt, Matt, Dr. Knowles is the exception to the rule, but.

• 42:55Questlove?

  Yeah, like this is really, I, I, I really have no questions left, like, I'm just, I, I wanna hear.

• 43:02Speaker 02

  But can I just ask, okay, so this is my question, because you, you said you did some racial therapy, and it's interesting, cause I thought about something when Amir said, said something about, uh, the way his parents raised him about not being daydreamers and stuff, and it seems like the reason to go toward the racial part is because, and the reason sometimes for a black therapist is because it's so, the trauma is so deep and generational that you need to understand why that generation before didn't allow for daydreaming, because they didn't feel like it was allowed.

• 43:29Speaker 07

  That was how they protect themselves, hell yeah.

• 43:31Speaker 02

  Everything that we do has such a cause, and a lot of us just don't even, we think that it's just something fresh and new and something wrong with us, but it's so generational and generational trauma, it's just, and my, uh, and.

• 43:42Speaker 07

  And every generation is, oh, I'm sorry, go ahead, go ahead.

• 43:45Speaker 06

  No, no, no, no, you're, you're all on the right path here, I, and, and again, I, I, I learned and, and, and learned so much, I mean, there was a part of me, a chaotic part of me, and I think we all have a chaotic part of ourselves that we have.

• 44:02Speaker 07

  Yes, indeed.

• 44:03Speaker 06

  Comes to, come to grips with, and, and in that process, there's just a lot I learned, uh, like eroticized rage, probably a word you've never heard before.

• 44:13Speaker 02

  Tell me, tell me, tell me.

• 44:13Speaker 07

  Eroticized rage?

• 44:15Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 44:16Speaker 07

  Eroticized, like, okay, got it, okay, just wanna make sure I heard you.

• 44:18Speaker 06

  It's a therapeutic term, um, I, because I was the skinny black kid, the coach in junior high school asked me to play basketball, and I, I was always the last kid to get picked on the sandlot with the black kids, but he thought I could play, but I couldn't, uh.

• 44:37Questlove?

  Same, same.

• 44:41Speaker 07

  You looked the part.

• 44:42Speaker 06

  But I looked the part.

• 44:43Questlove?

  You thought I could play football, but.

• 44:45Speaker 07

  Yeah, looked like Tarzan, played like Jane.

• 44:49Speaker 06

  Black tall kid must play basketball, but you know, I picked up kinda quickly and, and, and then something happened. I understood quickly that by being a basketball star, it gave me privileges. And so I started dating white girls and started dating white girls only.

• 45:11Speaker 02

  In Alabama?

• 45:13Questlove?

  Primitive exoticism, yes.

• 45:15Speaker 06

  But it was, you know, it wasn't over, you couldn't just be out there with it.

• 45:21Speaker 02

  Right.

• 45:22Speaker 06

  You know, uh, but it made me, and my mother, uh, was a, a good mom, but some things, as all of us, she used to tell me, and it was embedded, don't you ever bring no black nappy head girl to my house.

• 45:38Speaker 02

  Trauma, trauma, trauma, white supremacy.

• 45:41Speaker 07

  So, so from, so hearing it from your, and you were hearing that from your.

• 45:44Speaker 06

  Mother.

• 45:45Speaker 07

  Your mother told you not to bring no, not to bring no black girls home.

• 45:48Speaker 06

  Right, no nappy head.

• 45:50Speaker 07

  Nappy head black girl, wow.

• 45:52Speaker 06

  But she would've been okay if she was light complexion.

• 45:56Questlove?

  If she passed the paper bag test, then.

• 45:59Speaker 06

  Right.

• 46:00Speaker 02

  Mr. Knowles, you're making me so happy with this conversation right now.

• 46:03Questlove?

  Yeah, this is the first, I, I, I didn't even think conversations like this could happen with any black person, at least not born before nineteen seventy-five.

• 46:17Speaker 02

  All right. Cause are you basically admitting that she had an effect on your choices in that way too, like subconsciously, because?

• 46:23Speaker 06

  Yeah, she, she, and she, she understood that, you know, she.

• 46:28Speaker 02

  Damn, that's.

• 46:29Speaker 06

  But, it, it, a lot happened, a lot happened to black folks that we don't understand those impacts, and I'll just let you guys ask the question, because this is, uh, it's going to a place, this conversation that I think the uni- universe wanted it to go.

• 46:47Speaker 02

  I think so.

• 46:47Speaker 07

  Hundred percent.

• 46:48Questlove?

  Yeah, I'm, I'm floored, um, no, seriously. Forgot my question.

• 46:56Speaker 06

  It's all, it's okay, Questlove.

• 46:58Speaker 07

  So, how did you, okay, so in, in this, and throughout this journey, one, one thing that came to mind was, um, once you got to the point where you were successful and, you know, you had got your girls' careers kinda off the ground, and Destiny's Child was pulling everything, how did you fight against that, I guess that survivor's guilt? Or that survivor's remorse, kind of like, seeing how far you've come and realizing like, oh my God, like, I actually made it, so to speak, you know, um, how did you fight against, uh, when you talk about this, those old traumas, old, uh, you know, bad behaviors, how did you stop from, I guess, self sabotaging yourself in that way? Or, or were you able to, you know?

• 47:37Speaker 06

  I, I, I, I had to go through this process of understanding why, and like I said, it, it caused me dearly. But, but to your question of feeling guilty about success, um, you know, my, my dad, again, my parents, I, I, my dad was a volunteer fireman, he wanted to be, that was his dream was to be a fireman, but you couldn't be a fireman in Alabama, Gaston, Alabama, we're talking the sixties, uh, if you were black. Uh, so my dad used to, my dad was six, four, four hundred pounds, call him Big Mac.

• 48:19Questlove?

  No.

• 48:20Speaker 06

  And, and there's one word to describe my dad, gentle.

• 48:25Speaker 02

  Oh, that was fantastic.

• 48:26Speaker 06

  Gentle, all he did was help people. So this whole thing about giving back, I don't feel guilty about success, because I learned as a kid, watching my parents give back to their communities, uh, and giving back to help people. Uh, so I, I can, I can say I never felt guilt, guilt, uh, from success, because I worked very hard for it and was, was fortunate, um, to find my, my passion early in life, uh, which was the ability to communicate effectively.

• 49:04Speaker 07

  Um, in the early days, when y'all were, when you were, when you were Miss Knowles, and y'all were working with the girls and doing Destiny's Child, how did you learn, I guess, to kind of differentiate between being the dad and being the manager, being the coach, you know what I'm saying, like, how did, you know, how did you kind of, I guess, compartmentalize all those roles?

• 49:24Speaker 06

  Well, that was, that's a good question, you know, I, I have to say, I'm guilty of last night watching Jermaine DePree's show called Something Rap.

• 49:34Speaker 07

  The Rap Kids, the one with the kids of rap or whatever?

• 49:37Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Man, I mean, I watched six to seven episodes, and every episode had about five or six, I mean, I was up about four hours, I couldn't. And they had the parents and the, the kids, they were all, uh, between twelve and sixteen. You know, fortunate for me, again, I, I did twenty years of corporate America, so I brought a, a different skill set to the music industry, uh, than most. And, and, you know, most people in, in media would have what I call the Jedi mind trick, have you to believe that I left corporate America to be Beyonce's manager, and that's not true.

• 50:22Speaker 06

  I, I left, and, and they always say Xerox, well, I left Xerox in nineteen eighty-eight, and then I was one of the first blacks, uh, and, and in my life have followed this pattern of one, one of the first blacks, so, so listen to me through. I was fortunate and grateful to work at Xerox Corporation in the eighties, which was a number one corporation for blacks to work in.

• 50:46Speaker 07

  They was up, yeah.

• 50:47Speaker 06

  And, and I was the president of Minorities United in the Southern Region, which was about four hundred black employees, I was the president of that organization for three years. Um, I was fortunate to be the number one sales rep worldwide at Xerox Medical Systems three out of four years, to be the first, or one of the first blacks, I'm not sure, to sell MRI and CT scanners in America.

• 51:18Questlove?

  What?

• 51:19Speaker 06

  And to be a neurosurgical specialist with Johnson and Johnson, that's how I ended my career. See, people don't know my, my career.

• 51:29Speaker 02

  I don't even know what that is, a neuro.

• 51:32Speaker 06

  Neurosurgical specialist, you, I would work with neurosurgeons and, and implants and certain surgical procedures, uh, dealing with the head and neck.

• 51:45Speaker 01

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• 52:30Speaker 01

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• 52:45Speaker 03

  Hey, it's Nile Rodgers, host of Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series. I'm driving across the country, meeting some of today's most fascinating artists. We're exploring the stories before the moment that changed everything. This week, I'm joined by breakout singer-songwriter Alex Warren. To this day, Ordinary would not have done anything, and I would have not been able to put it out if, uh, if Book Talk didn't back it up, and if my wife and her friend didn't back it up, so. Amazing. Pretty crazy how like, just one thing. Right. I mean, you, you, I bet, we could point to nine different things in our careers where it's just one. Thing all of a sudden, if that one thing didn't happen, then I wouldn't be here. What you're talking about right now is what I've been talking about since the beginning of my career.

• 53:30Speaker 03

  There's these things outside of you that make everything happen. These other forces somehow came into contact with each other and helped propel you to this place. It's just insane. Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 53:52Speaker 07

  This is Hoda Kotb from Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb. Halloween has a funny way of making you buy things you'd never normally buy. A 10-foot skeleton? Sure. A full-size fog machine? Why not? Three bags of candy that somehow become six bags of candy? It happens. Which brings me to the Chase Freedom Flex Card, the savvy decision that will earn you more cash back on the everyday purchases, plus the extraordinary Halloween tricks and treats. With Freedom Flex, you earn even more treats on your Halloween and everyday needs. You get 5% cash back on popular rotating quarterly categories, 3% on dining and drugstores, and 1% on all other purchases. More ways to earn, more ways to get rewarded.

• 54:35Speaker 07

  That's no tricks, all treats. More ways to earn, more ways to get rewarded. So sign up for the Chase Freedom Flex Card. Learn more at chase.com/getflex. This is a paid collaboration with Chase Freedom Flex. Cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank, N A Member, FDIC. Subject to credit approval. Offer subject to change. Terms apply.

• 54:58Questlove?

  Behind every chart-topping hit, you know by heart there's an original. Writing it someplace where nobody was listening. Some basement, some bedroom. Somebody with headphones on at 3:00 in the morning chasing a thing they couldn't even name yet. Behind the culture that marks a generation, there's an original. Already moving, already shaking things up. Already looping that one bar. Already off-tempo. On purpose, because on purpose was the point. Behind every night that changed the room, somebody had to walk in first. Not knowing it would land, but doing it anyway. Originals are out there. Living stories worth telling. What's yours?

• 55:42Questlove?

  Behind every original, live in Levi's.

• 55:47Speaker 02

  Instagram teen accounts have automatic protections for what teens see and who can contact them, plus time management tools. And Instagram will continue adding built-in safety features to help create age-appropriate experiences.

• 56:04Speaker 02

  Learn more about teen accounts and Instagram's ongoing work to protect teens online at instagram.com/teenaccounts.

• 56:20Questlove?

  Okay, we kind of went way deep into the future of the 80s, but there's one question I have. One, when did you leave Gadsden, Alabama? And how did you wind up in Houston?

• 56:34Speaker 06

  I left Gadsden, Alabama in 1970. I was fortunate to have a number of scholarships. And my mother wanted me to stay close to home, so I accepted University of Tennessee. That's where I played basketball for two years. And then transferred, because I had never been to a black school. And we had scrimmage, you know how major white schools scrimmage little small black schools? We had scrimmage, Fisk University in Nashville. And Coach Ronald Lawson, when he was leaving the floor, whispered in my ear, "Nose, if you ever want to come to a black school,

• 57:19Speaker 06

  you have a full scholarship." And so I ended up transferring to Fisk University

• 57:26Speaker 06

  and graduated there in 74. Worked at AT&T for a year and a half. And then me and my frat brothers, Omega Psi Phi Fraternity.

• 57:40Questlove?

  Throw it up. What was amazing before we go, what did you study at Fisk?

• 57:45Speaker 06

  I had a degree in economics and one in business.

• 57:48Questlove?

  Okay, gotcha.

• 57:49Speaker 06

  Business administration. And we actually, me and three frat brothers, got in my 98 Oldsmobile that the University of Tennessee gave me. You know, used to get cars and stuff. It was legal back then.

• 58:03Questlove?

  Word?

• 58:03Speaker 06

  Yeah, back in the 70s, you know, you could do that. And we, Tennessee State, played Texas Southern. And we got to Houston, and we were like, man, wait a minute. Something's wrong. These frat brothers got these good jobs, man, and they weren't even as smart as us.

• 58:25Speaker 06

  So I just got in the car, December 6, 1976, and made one stop, which was a crazy stop, but got to Houston and had a job. I mean, I literally worked at Lanier Business Products and Pitney Bowls at the same time for a month.

• 58:49Speaker 06

  At the same time for a month. Because what they used to do was give you a big book, and you would go and study at your apartment, and then they would send you to training. So I would say, wait a minute, I could do that at my apartment and get paid by both of them? So I got paid by both of them, and then I ended up taking the Pitney Bowls job.

• 59:13Speaker 02

  All these.

• 59:13Questlove?

  50 bowls?

• 59:14Speaker 02

  Pitney Bowls.

• 59:15Questlove?

  Pitney Bowls.

• 59:17Speaker 06

  They used to be the leader, and you used to have to, if you were in a business, you had this machine that did the mailing and postage. It would seal envelopes and stamp envelopes. It was like the number one leader in that area. But I was in sales and marketing.

• 59:38Speaker 02

  You're telling us you're like the ultimate salesperson. And I think oftentimes, people don't realize the talent that it takes to be a salesperson like that. Like, especially on equipment and things of that nature. Like, that's a whole nother talent that now I see that transitions well into management now.

• 59:54Questlove?

  You're selling yourself. You ain't selling the product.

• 59:56Speaker 06

  You hit it on the head. People buy you, then your product.

• 1:00:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:03Speaker 06

  And in the music industry, we always tell my artists, I call it the three-second rule. When you see a new person for the first time, in three seconds, your brain comes up with what you think about them. You say, they're attractive, they're not so smart, or whatever it is. Your brain in three seconds, and it's hard to change that opinion once someone has opinion of you.

• 1:00:32Speaker 06

  Three-second rule.

• 1:00:34Questlove?

  So, okay, if you apply that, I'm certain that you, well, you're at least in a field in which you know you have to make an impression. It's, okay, now that you say that, now I really regret a lot of life decisions. Because in my profession, now I'll be honest with you. In my profession, I thought our advantage was if you underestimated me. And that's a lesson that Richard taught me. Because here's the thing, my late manager, Richard, who passed away of leukemia. He, Rich was a guy who's, I mean, to say Mensa, to say Mensa-level genius would be an understatement when it comes to Rich.

• 1:01:19Questlove?

  But because of, Rich also taught me the value of what he would call primitive exotica, which was, he knew that there was a sort of curious fetishy factor about him that interested certain prominent white people. Here's a great example. Norman Lear, creator of Good Times.

• 1:01:46Speaker 06

  I mean, I met him, and yeah.

• 1:01:48Questlove?

  Yeah, Norman is actually 99 now, like, he's still alive. We happen to be at an event in LA, and Rich is the kind of guy that, you know, like, when white people discover, like, that smart black guy that really impresses them, almost like it's like their new toy, that sort of thing. Like, that's the person that Rich was. Rich was the guy that read science books and all these things. And so, you know, he would sort of just work his shtick, knowing that people were underestimating him as he spoke, but realizing, like, wow, how amazingly smart he is. And next thing you know, like, Norman Lear literally said, can you go on tour with me? And Rich is trying to explain, like, no, I'm actually a manager of, like, a band, and I have a real job.

• 1:02:32Questlove?

  Norman's like, no, I just, I want you to, and Rich actually spent two weeks with Norman Lear in Beverly Hills, and Norman just took him to every, all of his friends, like, look at my new, I know this sounds really weird, like it's the update of the toy.

• 1:02:46Speaker 02

  Also, because I know what Rich looks like, and Rich is a nice chocolate brother with l'ac, and is very.

• 1:02:53Questlove?

  But Rich also knew that the scary factor, like, the fact that if you see Rich in the first three seconds, you're thinking of the scariest thing. Like, and then, you know, he starts with this Harvard, you know, intelligentsia thing, and that just totally throws you off. And I don't know, like, I think in our, I'm now trying to unlearn everything that Rich taught me. And because the way that we entered through the gates was to always be underestimated. Like, people would see the roots and like, oh my God, what are y'all, like Arrested Development, PM Dawn? Like, y'all are whack, y'all wearing Birkenstocks and all those things. But then we start playing and be like, you know, it's like when Dame Dash shit on Kanye West.

• 1:03:38Questlove?

  They're like, oh, shit, it's not whack. Like, oh, you guys are good. We, I sort of used that factor for the longest. Instead of trying to make a good impression, I would always try to go through the door to. Lower the expectation. Yeah, like, I lived life trying to lower expectations. And then I'm now noticing now, 30 years later, that maybe that didn't serve me too well.

• 1:04:04Speaker 06

  Well, you know, we all learn, and I'm sure he was a really, really good manager. But we have different perspectives. I think for me, it's the reveal, just similar to when you see an artist for the first time come out on stage. You know, at Music World, we work on that reveal, those first three seconds. Think about it for a second, when you see Solange and Beyoncé, what happens in the first three seconds of their show?

• 1:04:34Questlove?

  Dude, you don't even have to tell me. Matter of fact, the first time I ever met you, the first time I met you. You know Beyonce was starting her uh her first solo tour, the one that she did with Missy and Alicia.

• 1:04:50Speaker 06

  Ladies first.

• 1:04:52Questlove?

  Yeah, the ladies first tour.

• 1:04:54Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:04:54Questlove?

  And by that point, I had seen maybe three of her shows in which, you know, I always told her like I was real, I'm really impressed with your interests. Like you, you do these amazing, the way that you entered the stage is really, you know, crazy. I like, I, so, so when they came to town to Phila-, I'm, I'm from Philadelphia. Right before she goes on, I was like, okay, so what's the entrance like? She's like, you're gonna see, go run in the audience. Stay, stay by the soundboard. So I didn't realize, okay, so she did the thing where she entered from the back of the stadium uh with the gentleman carrying her on the, I don't know, like the Queen of Sheba thing, right?

• 1:05:35Questlove?

  And the thing was is that I came just to see how she was going to enter the stage because by that point, next to Michael Jackson, I'd never met anyone that really, really concentrated hard on making a first one, like a, a good impression on the first minute. And I also know, I learned another thing that show, at least five minutes later. Okay, so the way that the stage is set up, at one point, if you, if those who are listening to the podcast, if you remember like those old like uh sort of like Vegas review shows where the person's name would be spelled out in, in lights,

• 1:06:18Questlove?

  like a bunch of light bulbs. There was one light bulb out on the letter O of Beyonce. And I saw you lose your mind in the soundboard. And then suddenly, I stopped watching her show for like 20 minutes and suddenly, I, I'd never seen, like this is my Malcolm X moment where the guy goes up to him in the cafeteria.

• 1:06:43Speaker 07

  Never seen nobody talk to no police like that, yeah, right?

• 1:06:45Questlove?

  Exactly.

• 1:06:48Questlove?

  Like, I'd never seen one person bark in order and sent 12 people absolutely running to the hills for their lives to fix one light bulb on stage. I've never seen that in my life. And

• 1:07:05Speaker 06

  And, and you know why? Because that light bulb was blinking, which could affect it Beyonce's concentration.

• 1:07:12Speaker 02

  Ooh, yes.

• 1:07:15Speaker 07

  Yeah. The show, yeah.

• 1:07:17Questlove?

  Yeah, I, I watched you for the next 20 minutes because, you know, normally in that setting, I'm on stage and I'd, I'd never get to see, you know, the, the runnings of the show. Because if I'm at a concert, I'm watching the show or I'm on stage. So this is one of the rare moments where I'm watching someone run the show in a way that I'd never, ever, ever.

• 1:07:41Speaker 06

  And, and most people don't realize, Destiny's Child entire uh performance career, Beyonce's first three or four world tours, Solange's first tours, I did the front of the house sound.

• 1:08:00Speaker 07

  Oh, wow.

• 1:08:01Speaker 06

  And, and I did that because Destiny's Child did, their, their first tour was with Boys to Men. And when you have four ladies singing and everyone played a role, one, one person in between songs, that's who talked to the audience. Uh, and so I would punch in and out, punch in and out vocals. And we had the background tracks on the, the, the tape. Uh, a- and so the engineer back then, you pay the junior engineer $50 a show, but he didn't know who was singing and when.

• 1:08:39Speaker 07

  He didn't know the show, yeah.

• 1:08:40Speaker 06

  And so it sounded awful. And I said, hey, teach me, teach me. And so from that point, when we're doing TV tracks, and then when we got to when Beyonce was doing band, I didn't do the band, but I always did Beyonce's and vocals.

• 1:09:00Speaker 02

  How long did it take for you to master that?

• 1:09:03Speaker 06

  I, I mastered it quick. I mastered like two or three shows. Uh, because I, I just knew when to put the delays, when to punch in, punch out. I mean, these are things people don't know about me, Questlove.

• 1:09:17Speaker 02

  That's why, that's why you're here.

• 1:09:19Speaker 07

  Hey, talk your shit, bruh. Come on, want them to know.

• 1:09:23Speaker 06

  You know, they, they don't know this at all.

• 1:09:25Speaker 02

  They do now.

• 1:09:26Questlove?

  Okay, so the thing is, is that um, okay, so when you, when you get to Houston, I don't know the exact year that you moved, but

• 1:09:34Speaker 06

  December 6th, 1976.

• 1:09:37Questlove?

  Oh, okay, you, all right. 1976. When you are developing, first of all, how do you know that the talent that your kids have, how do you know that it's, it's beyond just like performing at family functions and Thanksgiving? Like I, I used to be called to the table all the time to do the robot. I'm here, do the Michael Jackson real quick. That's where, like, where, where it comes from, every parent has that story where they, you know, they wake up the kid from sleep and, you know, they're having a party downstairs. All right, all right, go sing Aretha Franklin or something like that.

• 1:10:13Speaker 02

  My was Teddy Pendergrass, I'm with you on that, yeah, yeah.

• 1:10:15Questlove?

  Right. Wait, what? You sang Teddy Pendergrass?

• 1:10:18Speaker 02

  Go ahead, go sing that Teddy Pendergrass song.

• 1:10:19Speaker 07

  What Teddy Pendergrass song did you sing?

• 1:10:21Questlove?

  You?

• 1:10:23Speaker 02

  My parents was good parents.

• 1:10:25Speaker 07

  I know, but I'm saying, what, I'm just trying to, what song did you sing? I'm trying to hear what key, like what did you even sing?

• 1:10:32Speaker 07

  Oh, you would sing Close the Door?

• 1:10:33Speaker 02

  But I don't know what I'm saying.

• 1:10:37Speaker 07

  Close the door. You would get that low? You could get that deep?

• 1:10:40Speaker 02

  14, it would be

• 1:10:41Speaker 07

  Waited all day long.

• 1:10:43Speaker 06

  Yeah, that was your point. You wanted to know what key did she sing that in?

• 1:10:46Questlove?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:49Speaker 02

  I knew the words. It was cute that I knew the words.

• 1:10:54Questlove?

  Laia, I think you just might have won the animated spot.

• 1:10:58Speaker 07

  For real. Laia singing Close the Door, are you shitting me? Dude, that's amazing.

• 1:11:03Speaker 06

  That was, that was, hey, that was Teddy Mae Pendergrass.

• 1:11:08Speaker 02

  Oh, you got jokes, Mr. Know, Dr. Know.

• 1:11:11Speaker 06

  Oh, you, you have no idea. I have jokes. I'm quick with my jokes, man.

• 1:11:17Speaker 02

  What's your sign? I'm sorry, I'm just

• 1:11:19Speaker 06

  Capricorn.

• 1:11:20Speaker 07

  He's a cat. Yes, indeed. Yes, indeed. When's your birthday? When's your birthday?

• 1:11:25Speaker 06

  January 8th.

• 1:11:26Speaker 07

  Okay, you're January 8th. I'm December 28th.

• 1:11:28Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:11:29Speaker 02

  You're between all of us.

• 1:11:30Questlove?

  We're all Capricorns, sorry, Steve.

• 1:11:31Speaker 02

  We are, yeah, we are.

• 1:11:33Questlove?

  Wait a minute, Steve, your birthday's soon, right?

• 1:11:36Speaker 07

  Yeah, September 6th, Virgos. Uh, we're amazing people. We just can't figure out what to order in a restaurant, but other than that,

• 1:11:45Speaker 07

  pretty great.

• 1:11:46Speaker 06

  Yeah, you are amazing people. Beyonce is September 4th.

• 1:11:49Speaker 02

  Bam, that just, that just solidified it.

• 1:11:55Speaker 04

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• 1:12:37Speaker 04

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• 1:12:56Speaker 03

  Hey, it's Niall Rogers, host of Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series. I'm driving across the country, meeting some of today's most fascinating artists. We're exploring the stories before the moment that changed everything. This week, I'm joined by Miguel. That last year, finishing that record was the hardest experience of my life. To find your creativity and to believe in yourself because somewhere in the midst of it, I stopped believing that my voice mattered and that I could find it again.

• 1:13:32Speaker 03

  That's a challenge. I was not feeling very confident creatively, only um, again, defiant in my belief that

• 1:13:44Speaker 03

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• 1:15:05Questlove?

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• 1:15:49Questlove?

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• 1:16:27Questlove?

  All right, so when, how do you know that this is much more than

• 1:16:32Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:16:33Questlove?

  just, you know, good for, good for the church choir? How do you know that, okay, my, my daughter might have something?

• 1:16:41Speaker 06

  So parenting, you know, my, I think the role of a parent with their kids is to surround them with as much as they can. I would take the girls and me and my, my former wife would take the girls to, like I said, to the library. We would take them and support their science fairs. We would get them in dance lessons. And so that they could figure out and we could see what they gravitated towards. And, and both Solange and Beyonce gravitated towards music. And so then we surrounded them even more with support.

• 1:17:24Speaker 06

  So for Beyonce, she was in the, she was eight years old. She was in a talent show against little 12, 13-year-old kids. And we were sitting there, it was her first time performing. And she said, Mom, Dad, I'm, I'm ready to, to go so we can go eat. Cause I need to win a hundred dollars and take my, get my trophy. And we said, well, how do you know you're gonna win this talent show? And we weren't paying attention to her practicing or anything. And she said, I just know, I just know. And sure enough, she got a standing ovation.

• 1:18:03Speaker 06

  Well, after she won 31 consecutive talent shows, we then start thinking, huh, maybe, maybe this is what she really likes. And maybe this is what she might be one day, entertainer. And the same with Solange, same kind of story.

• 1:18:24Questlove?

  Do you?

• 1:18:26Speaker 06

  I gotta say this, Solange did something really different. Solange, when she was about nine, one day we came home and she was with the maid. She dismantled about 12 of Beyonce's trophies. Totally completely dismantled them. I understand it now as a parent, she was saying, what about me? What about me? So.

• 1:18:51Speaker 02

  Well, these trophies don't mean nothing.

• 1:18:57Questlove?

  Okay, so I, I know that, um, in, in, in sort of that, uh, what's his name? Blink and the tipping point. Oh, Malcolm Gladwell. Malcolm Gladwell.

• 1:19:11Speaker 06

  Outliers.

• 1:19:12Questlove?

  Yeah, and outliers that, you know, he says that 10,000 hours of preparation equals genius. I've, I've seen, you know, some clips about, you know, Camp Knowles or whatever, how you would, would train them. How, okay, first of all, can you explain about the decision to leave your cushy comfort, uh, job as, as a salesman? And how did, how did you and your wife work that out? Yeah. Yeah, and, yeah, what's the, what was the decision to really make the leap into, okay, I'm gonna now steer this, steer this empire to where it should go

• 1:19:57Questlove?

  so that we can have a legacy?

• 1:19:59Speaker 06

  So, so, you know, when I was at Xerox Medical Systems, I told you I was highly successful there, highly successful at Philips. Not so much successful at Johnson and Johnson and that neurosurgical position. Uh, I, I didn't like it because, you know, I, I came from selling a $5 million piece of equipment to selling a whole bunch of $1,000 instruments. And I didn't like that. I didn't like on the weekends going to the operating room and having a pager every other weekend. I just didn't like getting up at 4:00 in the morning going to surgery.

• 1:20:40Speaker 06

  And, and so, uh, one of the hospitals in the medical system, uh, center, after a procedure, I got paged. So I thought, did the patient die? Did I say something wrong? Did I do something wrong? So I run up to the, the neurosurgeon's office and he tells me, Mr. Knowles, I can't use your instruments anymore. And I asked him why? He said, showed me the letter that if he didn't reduce his cost per procedure, if he didn't reduce that, he was not, he was gonna lose his privileges at that hospital.

• 1:21:18Questlove?

  Wow.

• 1:21:18Speaker 06

  And no surgeon wants that, cause that's their livelihood. At that point, I called Tina, my former wife, and said, I can't do this shit anymore. Quote, that's exactly what I said. Because I was like, I'm not selling quality, I'm selling costs. And I just can't do that. I'm not really ready selling a whole bunch of little stuff. Uh, and I just didn't like what I was doing. So I realized at that moment, that was a defining moment. And we all have defining moments in our lives, that I had to do something else. I was gonna get fired anyway. So I, I, I, I knew I had to do something else. And I decided I wanted to change my career.

• 1:22:03Speaker 06

  What people don't know is when I was a kid, my dad at 400 pounds could dance his butt off. And we, they would go, my mom and dad on Sundays into the living room that had that plastic on it. Y'all too young to understand that.

• 1:22:19Questlove?

  Oh, no, who you talking about? No, no.

• 1:22:21Speaker 02

  I sweated on that.

• 1:22:22Questlove?

  We ain't that young.

• 1:22:23Speaker 02

  I sweated, I sweated on that.

• 1:22:24Questlove?

  My grandma still got plastic on the couch now.

• 1:22:26Speaker 06

  So they, they would go in there, man, and they started dancing. And my job was to put, I had a nickel, a dime, and a quarter. And we had vinyl. And my job was to put and look at that vinyl. And finally, I, you know, more I heard it, I knew. So it wouldn't scratch, cause my dad would get really mad when he was dancing if the record scratched. And so I then start reading the liner notes and I didn't realize, but I became a DJ. Every Sunday, they did this. Every Sunday, you know, they, they, I knew, I could tell by my, my dad's emotions what songs to play. And that's really what a DJ does anyway.

• 1:23:11Speaker 06

  I knew Peaches and Earth, Close My Eyes.

• 1:23:13Questlove?

  Read the room.

• 1:23:14Speaker 06

  You know, I do, I better put Close My Eyes on right now. Uh, Fats Domino, you know, that was one of his, his jams. I knew if he wanted to do some up tempo, I better do Fats Domino. But, and most people, and not most, hardly anybody knows that in high school, I was actually, we had a, a, a, a boy group. You know, back in the day, talent shows was a big thing in the black community. But at our high school, we had a, you know, we, we won actually. We did the psychedelic shack by The Temptations.

• 1:23:51Questlove?

  By Temptations, wow. Psychedelic shack, that's where it's at.

• 1:23:54Speaker 06

  Yeah, and I just love music. I always love, loved music. And so I decided, and at the same time, Beyonce was in this girl group called Girls Time. All I did, cause my former wife was, we owned a hair salon. And so on the weekends was her big days. And that's when the, the girls would practice Fridays and Saturdays. So I would drop her off at practice, go play basketball, come back and pick her up. Uh, and then they got to Star Search, which is like American Idol, and they lost. And I'm there, they asked me to come to bring all the wardrobe,

• 1:24:36Speaker 06

  cause the, their managers thought they were gonna win for a month. And had a whole room just for the wardrobe. And then when they lost, I came up, I went up to Ed McMahon. And I said, well, these kids are crying their hearts out. What, what do I do? And he said, I don't know why, Mr. Knowles. Actually, he said, I don't know why. He had a Don Cunial's voice. He said, but everyone that consistently win on this show professionally go on to do nothing. It's the people that lose. Aaliyah, Justin Timberlake, Usher, Alanis Morissette. I can go on and on. They lost, they went on to be successful because they recommitted,

• 1:25:21Speaker 06

  rededicated, changed their organization. And I never forgot those words. And that.

• 1:25:28Questlove?

  That makes sense. Because the people that win think they won. They think, oh, I made it. And it's like, nah, you didn't.

• 1:25:34Speaker 06

  Right. And so, and so, it's interesting, it's like 18 A-list artists. Google it sometime, you'd be surprised, all the people. But, but, but I actually ended up, because I have always believed in knowledge is power. So I went back to junior college, Houston Community College, here in Houston. And on the weekends, I took artist management, music production, and I took publishing on the weekends, on Saturdays. And over a year period, went to every seminar I could.

• 1:26:18Speaker 06

  And I would be the guy you want to shut up, because I keep asking every question, everybody's shy and quiet. I'd be like, oh, well, how about this, and why do you do this, and why did I, and I understood relationships. Now, this is what's going to surprise you. The first artist, and Google this, the first artist that I ever signed to a major record deal, and the first artist that I signed as a manager, was not Destiny's Child.

• 1:26:51Speaker 07

  Who was it?

• 1:26:52Speaker 06

  Lil O. His single is Can't Stop. He was signed to MCA Records in the peak, when they had Mary J. Blige, Jodeci, P. Diddy, I can go on and on.

• 1:27:07Speaker 07

  And what was his name again? What was his name again?

• 1:27:09Speaker 06

  Lil O. Lil O. And his single is called Can't Stop, and it features Destiny. How the hell did I convince MCA Records to put a Columbia Records artist that didn't even have a record on his first single? But I did. But Lil O was my first artist, a rap artist. The sample is Loose Ends.

• 1:27:35Speaker 07

  Wow. Yeah, you can't stop the rain.

• 1:27:38Questlove?

  Oh, okay. Wait, question, okay, because I didn't ask this about your Xerox thing, but who is, is your communications expertise, is that self-taught, or did you, is this something you learned in college? Because, yes, I do know that the key to a successful business person is one that remembers names, and, you know, is personable, is a people person, all things I kind of don't like about this industry, but I realize that I have to jump in the pool somewhat begrudgingly. But, like, who taught you the art of communication?

• 1:28:20Speaker 06

  Yeah, my foundation is, and was from Xerox Corporation. And if you research, there's been so many presidents of corporations, black men and women, that in the eighties, talking back in the day, seventies and eighties, that worked at Xerox. In Leedsburg, Virginia, there was actually a college that we would go to. I credit Xerox Corporation for all of my success in communications, and understanding people, and understanding how to sell myself, build relationships.

• 1:29:02Speaker 06

  I always would credit them, because they taught me and many others a foundation that is unparalleled.

• 1:29:11Questlove?

  But it doesn't get exhausting, like, remembering names and...

• 1:29:15Speaker 06

  Terrible with that.

• 1:29:16Questlove?

  Have, have to, okay.

• 1:29:18Speaker 02

  Do you have any tricks?

• 1:29:19Speaker 07

  I can remember faces, faces, I would never forget a face.

• 1:29:22Speaker 06

  I remember I used to do sales calls, and I would have everybody coming to the, to the, to the meeting, in a conference room, and I have on a piece of paper, a chart, where I had everybody's names, so I could remember their name. A CD chart. I'm terrible with names, I'm still bad at names, it's one of the things I'm never good

• 1:29:42Questlove?

  at. Some people get the joy out of, you don't remember me, do you? And I just, now I'm just blatant, like, absolutely not, I don't remember.

• 1:29:48Speaker 06

  Yeah, I'm absolutely terrible with names. But, you know, that's where I learned it. I learned from Xerox Corporation.

• 1:29:57Questlove?

  Could you talk about pounding the pavement, actually landing a record deal?

• 1:30:02Speaker 06

  Yeah, I can, because we were, I got a number of letters that said, we formally passed on your group called Destiny's Child. Then, you know, the group went from Girl's Time, then they signed with Darryl Simmons, LA and Babyface partners still to the day in writing, and solid partner production. They got dropped by Electoral Records. Sylvia was the president then, she hates when I say this.

• 1:30:33Questlove?

  Yeah, I was about to say.

• 1:30:34Speaker 06

  She hates when I say that. But, but, but, it was, she, she, literally, Darryl had a new production deal, and he had three artists, the girls were called the Dolls, a name I really dislike, then, and he, she ended up ending the production deal, but she had the right to continue with the girls, but I understood that. She had this girl group called In Vogue.

• 1:31:03Speaker 02

  Y'all were about to say, that's what I thought, yeah.

• 1:31:05Speaker 06

  Why the hell would you want another girls group and some bunch of parents? I get it. So I, I understand that now, but yes, the, we, the girls, you know, I, I came up with this idea when they came back from Atlanta, I changed the name to Something Fresh, and then we did a photo shoot, and I sent out packages. I used to spend a lot of time, way, I didn't have a clue then, I would have a package with maybe 20 pages, photos and all kind of stuff, not understanding less was more. And then I would get these past letters, and then I came up with another name of the

• 1:31:46Speaker 06

  girls, and then we came up with the name Destiny, and then Destiny became Destiny's Child. So this, this started, this journey started when Beyonce was eight years old, and she got signed when she was 15 also.

• 1:32:02Questlove?

  So you're telling me that you would get a round of no's, and then your idea was, okay, we're going to come back as another name? Like, how do you convince them, like, okay, let's re, let's regroup, and this time we're going to call ourselves this, and do it all over again?

• 1:32:20Speaker 06

  Yeah, it was a bad idea.

• 1:32:24Questlove?

  And I would assume that you would also try to do the usual pavement pounding at the Jack the Rappers of the world, and all those commissions.

• 1:32:33Speaker 07

  And Atlanta, and Gavin.

• 1:32:35Speaker 06

  All of them, I was there, I was there with a whole stack of business cards, you know, but a whole stack of CDs.

• 1:32:45Questlove?

  So who, who's the...

• 1:32:46Speaker 06

  I had cassettes back then.

• 1:32:49Speaker 03

  Looking for a new way to take control of your health? If diet, exercise, and willpower alone haven't gotten you where you want to be, visit orderlymeds.com to learn about GLP-1 treatment options. With a convenient virtual process, you can connect with licensed medical providers from home, and see if treatment may be appropriate for you. Visit orderlymeds.com today. That's orderlymeds.com. Compounded medications are not FDA approved. Eligibility determined by a licensed provider. Individual results may vary. See website for details. Hey, it's Nile Rodgers, host of Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series. I'm driving across the country, meeting some of today's most fascinating artists.

• 1:33:31Speaker 03

  We're exploring the stories before the moment that changed everything. This week, I'm joined by my friend, John Legend. How does music actually enter your mind?

• 1:33:42Questlove?

  I'm not sure why or how the music comes to me, but I think people who love music and write music, our brains are just filled with music. Like, we have listened to so much music, we've been a part of so much music, I think of the story that I want to tell, and the mood that I want to create with the music, start playing chords, see where they lead me.

• 1:34:04Speaker 03

  Sometimes, I'm just not even thinking about music, right? And I hear this little thing, and I go, oh, that could be this.

• 1:34:14Questlove?

  You know, you just have to be ready for when the inspiration hits.

• 1:34:17Speaker 03

  And it comes. Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series, on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Hoda Kotb from Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb. Halloween has a funny way of making you buy things you'd never normally buy. A 10-foot skeleton? Sure. A full-size fog machine? Why not? Three bags of candy that somehow become six bags of candy? It happens. Which brings me to the Chase Freedom Flex card, the savvy decision that will earn you more cash back on the everyday purchases, plus the extraordinary Halloween tricks and treats. With Freedom Flex, you earn even more treats on your Halloween and everyday needs. You get 5% cash back on popular rotating quarterly categories.

• 1:35:02Questlove?

  3% on dining and drugstores and 1% on all other purchases. More ways to earn, more ways to get rewarded. That's no tricks, all treats. More ways to earn, more ways to get rewarded. So sign up for the Chase Freedom Flex Card. Learn more at chase.com/getflex. This is a paid collaboration with Chase Freedom Flex. Cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank, NA member FDIC. Subject to credit approval. Offer subject to change. Terms apply.

• 1:35:33Speaker 07

  Behind every chart topping hit, you know by heart there's an original. Writing it someplace where nobody was listening. Some basement, some bedroom, somebody with headphones on at 3:00 in the morning chasing a thing they couldn't even name yet. Behind the culture that marks a generation, there's an original. Already moving, already shaking things up, already looping that one bar, already off tempo. On purpose, because on purpose was the point. Behind every night that changed the room, somebody had to walk in first. Not knowing it would land, but doing it anyway. Originals are out there. Living stories worth telling. What's yours?

• 1:36:17Speaker 07

  Behind every original, live in Levi's.

• 1:36:22Questlove?

  Instagram teen accounts have automatic protections for what teens see and who can contact them. Plus, time management tools. And Instagram will continue adding built-in safety features to help create age-appropriate experiences. Learn more about teen accounts and Instagram's ongoing work to protect teens online at instagram.com/teenaccounts. I'm amazed that you never gave up because from the story that I'm hearing is that

• 1:37:02Questlove?

  you had to make a few rounds to the same labels over and over again with new names or, you know, like a new A&R.

• 1:37:11Speaker 07

  New outfits, new whatever.

• 1:37:13Questlove?

  And, I mean, you never once worried about like the proverbial eye roll of whoever's at, you know, this pretend, oh God, Matthew Knowles, Matt Knowles again, okay, I'll take the call.

• 1:37:27Speaker 06

  Yeah, but you gotta remember about my background. I was the number one sales rep in the world. In sales, you're gonna hear no. No is just, I didn't present it correctly. That's how, when I get a no, it's like, okay, I didn't present that right.

• 1:37:41Questlove?

  And there was, and the girls weren't taking this personal or any of those things? Like, you just, like, how do you break it to them that it didn't work out or it's not our time? Like, how do you break bad news to them that doesn't break their spirit?

• 1:37:57Speaker 06

  Well, I was being honest, first of all. And they weren't, I mean, in, in reality, they weren't ready. They really weren't ready. And they accepted the fact that they weren't ready, that they had to improve, they had to grow, they had to practice, they had to get more focused. This was their passion and they accepted that. And they did the things because they also were best friends and they got to spend time and had a lot of fun as little girls do together.

• 1:38:33Questlove?

  Can I ask, because I'm now realizing I have a rare chance to ask a question of this manner that I probably wouldn't have, you know, comes into 20 years ago to ask you. And I'm kind of jumping ahead a little bit. But that, that, that, that period between like 1999 and 2001 where you're making personnel changes and whatnot. And I know, you know, just from the line of work that I come in, how discipline, rigorous discipline and, you know, you, you kind of have to be on your Ps and Qs in this business. And oftentimes you might have weak links.

• 1:39:18Questlove?

  I mean, not to just dismiss people as weak links or whatnot, but, you know, I know that especially pre or the beginning stages of the internet, a lot has been said of your sort of backstage dad control of the group. But what, what is the biggest misperception of, of your role during that period in which you're, you're changing personnel, like right before Michelle Williams came into the group? What, what do you feel the, of course now, you know, post 2001, 2002, 2003, like post Survivor, then, you know, now it's like, you know, you're, you're dad of the century.

• 1:40:02Questlove?

  But there was that, that, that period where we didn't know what was happening. Like, was, was this going to be a Dreamgirls Supreme situation or was it going to be a Destiny fulfilled situation? But what did you feel during that period was a major sort of misconception of just like how that situation went down?

• 1:40:27Speaker 06

  Yeah, I, I just never, I just never really cared what people said about me. I understood, again from Xerox leadership and what true leadership really means. People aren't gonna, and when you're a visionary, people aren't gonna get that, most people. Matter of fact, I'm glad most people don't get it. Because for those of us that are visionaries, if everybody got it, it'd make it really tough to be, be successful. So I, I had a vision, I had leadership, I had amazing team.

• 1:41:09Speaker 06

  And I just said earlier, the team has been together for a long time. From road manager to accountants to, you know, music director, publicist, Yvette Noel Shore, 20 plus years. These guys have been together. And so I built a really good team. It wasn't just me, but we had our own vision. You know, Tina, my former wife, did an exceptional job on the imaging. You know, back then, those girl groups were in, you know, boots and baggy jeans and we

• 1:41:51Speaker 06

  wanted to do glamour and bring back the Supremes. We always had a vision that we had and we didn't stray from that. And if you know anyone in Questlove that actually really worked in a record label and really was there, I think you would get a totally different perspective of the role I played and what really happened. I mean, fans, you know, we are in the industry, fans are gonna, you know, fans are gonna have their perspective, but they don't really know, fans don't really know what's happening.

• 1:42:30Speaker 07

  Yeah, from an outsider's perspective, I, my, I think my kind of Matthew Knowles moment, I had heard like all the Destiny Child stuff and, you know, I was going through the group changes and everything. For me, I understood the type of businessman you were when I saw you sign De La Soul. When, when you signed them, I was like, word the fuck up, yes. Like, you get it. You know what I'm saying? I was so happy to see that, man.

• 1:42:55Speaker 06

  I liked that first single, Shopping Bags. See, people don't know this about me, you know that?

• 1:43:01Speaker 07

  They bout to. We know, we know. Yeah, we're nerds, we know. Everybody else bout to know.

• 1:43:06Speaker 06

  Yeah, they don't know. In 2002, I sold Music World, this is, you can Google it, for $10 million and $30 million in stock. And we, Sanctuary was at that time in 2002, the largest independent record label. Rock was their thing, they had all the major rocks. And we formed the Urban Division and I was the president of it. And we had an urban record label, the largest urban management company in the world, you know. We had Nelly, young men. I made all these, these kids were all in their twenties. They're, they're men, I shouldn't say kids. These young men were all in their twenties and became millionaires.

• 1:43:50Speaker 06

  And when I look back and I, I see that, you know, Kandu Isaacs, you know, we brought him on board. He was at that time producing for Mary J. We brought in from Philadelphia, Dr., Dr., gosh, basketball player, I just had a mental fart.

• 1:44:11Questlove?

  Julius Irving.

• 1:44:12Speaker 06

  Julius Irving III.

• 1:44:14Questlove?

  Yeah, yeah, Jerry.

• 1:44:15Speaker 06

  Yeah, they, they, they had Floretree and uh

• 1:44:19Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, I forgot the connection.

• 1:44:20Speaker 06

  They, they had Eve, uh, I brought those guys on.

• 1:44:24Speaker 02

  That's early Troy Carter.

• 1:44:25Speaker 06

  And Troy Carter, who was my number one draft pick. When I tell you this young man. Absolutely, and just the other day, I heard on uh, one of the, the social media platforms, he talked about it, uh, where Troy was my number one, the first person I brought on board. I didn't know uh, J. Irvin at that time, uh, but I had really followed this kid with Eve and, and he had a rapper, they had a rapper also, I can't remember his name, but.

• 1:44:59Speaker 02

  Journalist.

• 1:45:00Speaker 06

  Yes, that's who it was.

• 1:45:02Questlove?

  Journalist, oh my god.

• 1:45:03Speaker 02

  Love me so much.

• 1:45:04Questlove?

  Waiting for the win.

• 1:45:05Speaker 02

  He was good, he was good people, man.

• 1:45:07Speaker 06

  And, and then I, I brought in the management for D-12. And so, this is who I, what our management roster was. Now you understand when they had the MTV tour and Destiny's Child, Nelly and Eve was on it, now you understand why, now you understand.

• 1:45:27Speaker 02

  And Kelly, and Kelly and Nelly.

• 1:45:28Speaker 06

  Well, I was just about, I was just about to say, now you understand. That just wasn't happenstance, that was because they were part of Music World, I mean Sanctuary, Music World Sanctuary, uh, Urban Management. Uh, and then on the record labels side, you know, we, uh, I signed Earth, Wind & Fire.

• 1:45:49Questlove?

  I was gonna say, you did the Illumination record, right?

• 1:45:51Speaker 06

  Illumination, uh, Ray J.'s biggest hit, One Wish. Uh, you know, I, I, I did a deal with, with Ray J. and his, his mother. Uh, we did the OJs, Coolin' Again. I convinced Shaka Khan to go to London and do a standards records, uh, with the London Symphony.

• 1:46:13Questlove?

  Yep, you did.

• 1:46:14Speaker 06

  Uh, you know, we did a whole lot there. Now, as the media on the record label side, they gave me the black eye, uh, because Sanctuary ended up going downhill. Obviously, they always look for who's gonna be the scapegoat, but on the record label, on the management side, we made plenty of money. On the record label side, you know, it takes time to recoup those, you know, I spent money with these artists, I believe in spending money with my artists. And it takes a minute to recoup those investments, but it was a great, great time, wonderful time that I had.

• 1:46:55Speaker 06

  Got a little too, a little too, like we talked earlier, Questlove had too much going on, uh, at the time, uh, and, and during this period is where I began to unravel, uh, when the stress came with all the travel, because I had an office on Sunset Boulevard, I had an office in New York, I had two offices in New York. I had, I had an office at Sony, at 550 Madison, I had an office downtown in New York. Our corporate office was in London, I was in London, damn near every other week, we

• 1:47:34Speaker 06

  had a office, my 1505 Hadley, which is where Hadley Street Dreams, because that's where we owned the whole block with records, uh, labels, studios, rehearsal, you were there, you've been there, you've been there.

• 1:47:49Questlove?

  How'd you know I was there? I was about to say, I know I went to a, I went to a music compound, I went there for some reason, I forget why I went down there, and it wasn't even to work with your daughters, but.

• 1:48:00Speaker 06

  Yeah, it was something we did with one of, you know, we used to rent it out to different events.

• 1:48:05Questlove?

  Damn, your memory's good, that's right, cuz when you were saying that, I was like, wait a minute, didn't I visit Music World for like a week or so?

• 1:48:11Speaker 06

  It was one of those power drinks, it was one of those power drinks.

• 1:48:13Speaker 02

  I'll probably buy them, buy them.

• 1:48:15Speaker 06

  It was one of those power drinks.

• 1:48:16Questlove?

  Yes, you're right. No, that was meteoric, like, to see, that was, that was important for me to also see the development, like, when I went inside Music World, I was really impressed because the only other, oh god, okay, I'm, I'm like, I'm a, all right, the Prince bass is about to come down on me for this statement. I mean, the last time I went to something as close to that was Paisley Park, and during that time period, you know, it wasn't that well-kept and, you know, it was basically just, by that point, just his vanity studio, like, it was far from the utopian.

• 1:48:55Speaker 07

  Glory days, yeah.

• 1:48:56Questlove?

  Yeah, it was far from the utopian vision that I think that he envisioned, where it was like a full-scale video and a, and, and a, not a video, like a rehearsal spot and a club and all those things, but, like, to see it in real time, like, in, in full operation, I, I, I was very, I was really impressed with how that, that operation was, was running down there.

• 1:49:19Speaker 06

  Yeah, and then we had, uh, you know, we had, not only, we had the, we built the largest gospel label, only Sony, Sony beat us out one year by like, a 10% uh, in market share, you know, we did a partnership with BET Sunday Best, Leandrea Johnson, uh, Grammy Award winner, number one female gospel, uh, Trinity 57.

• 1:49:47Speaker 07

  Trinity 57, yep.

• 1:49:48Speaker 06

  Six, six records on them, um.

• 1:49:51Questlove?

  Vanessa Bell Armstrong.

• 1:49:53Speaker 06

  Vanessa Bell Armstrong, Armstrong, um, I can go on and on, we had a real burgeoning uh, gospel label, um, I mean, most people don't know this stuff, you know, they just

• 1:50:05Speaker 02

  know I'm. It's time for you to collect your trophies.

• 1:50:06Speaker 06

  They, they just know I'm Beyonce's, I was Beyonce's dad.

• 1:50:11Questlove?

  I mean, that's, that's not a bad thing, you know.

• 1:50:13Speaker 07

  Yeah, really.

• 1:50:13Speaker 06

  It's not a bad thing at all, but, but I, you know, at one point, we had 140 employees. At one point, my overhead was $300,000 a month.

• 1:50:23Speaker 02

  Woo, you better give us the business.

• 1:50:26Speaker 06

  And as you know, Questlove, uh, you know, I'm very proud, as a black man, we owned a city block, let me change that, cuz when I say, when I say we, people think Beyonce and Sludge, I fucking own a city block.

• 1:50:41Questlove?

  Talk that shit.

• 1:50:43Speaker 06

  And, and, and, in downtown Houston.

• 1:50:47Questlove?

  Yes.

• 1:50:49Speaker 02

  And the land that it sits on too, huh, Doc?

• 1:50:51Speaker 06

  Right, right.

• 1:50:53Speaker 02

  People don't understand about that land, listen here.

• 1:50:56Questlove?

  Talk heavy, I love it.

• 1:50:57Speaker 02

  That's a man from Alabama owning his land in the corner, what?

• 1:51:01Questlove?

  Can I, all right, uh, I'll, I'll ask, how hard or how easy was it for you to let Beyonce in the last stages of her caterpillar period blossom into a butterfly?

• 1:51:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:51:20Questlove?

  And basically go handle her business on her own, which.

• 1:51:24Speaker 06

  Well, I think it was the same for Beyonce, Slunge, and, and even some other artists, um, you know, I.

• 1:51:32Questlove?

  I'll ask, how hard was it to not walk away, but to, to let your artists fly?

• 1:51:37Speaker 06

  Yeah, I, I always say, we, we forget that most artists I've worked with, uh, not most, I would say, uh, half of them were teenagers. You know, how you manage a 15-year-old in the business is different than how you manage a 35-year-old or a 30-year-old in the business. Uh, a- as you know, I always say this, we don't, in the industry, let 14, 15-year-olds make million-dollar decisions, at all, on the business side.

• 1:52:13Speaker 07

  Cause they're not equipped for it.

• 1:52:14Speaker 06

  So, so I managed them differently, but my kids got to see their mother on the business, their dad on the business, uh, be in corporate America, they got to grow as they got older, and, and I hope, and I've seen them say it now, and I'm very proud, even Beyonce's on the cover of a magazine, she just, just recently said that it was me that instilled in her to, to be a writer, to be a producer, not just to be a, a singer artist, but to be an entertainer, um, but to, to watch them grow in, as they got older, it, they got more information.

• 1:52:56Speaker 06

  When they were younger, wanted them to focus on their artistry, not on the mu- music business, because the music business is most of this stuff, and if you're trying to do both at 18, 19, 22, it's gonna fail, it's just too much at the level of success that they had. That's why we had 150 employees, how is one person who understand marketing, understand the international marketplace, understand all the financial, no, no one artist at 17, 18 years old can do that. So it's ludicrous when people say that, well, he was controlling, that's what you do when

• 1:53:41Speaker 06

  you manage teenagers, you control their business.

• 1:53:47Speaker 06

  And as they get older, they get involved as they understand it. That's why I teach this in class. You know, I have a, in my classes, I've been doing this in a classroom for 15 years. There's 193 definitions, starting with A and R, going all the way through. Like, a lot of people, 90% of all the people in the industry don't know it. It's a lot to know on the business side.

• 1:54:16Speaker 07

  So when they, so when they kind of went and when Beyonce and Solange got to that point where they wanted to control their careers or have more of a say or however you look at it, you just saw that as like a natural progression? Like you kind of anticipated that coming?

• 1:54:29Speaker 06

  And it was a combination. It was a combination of that. And also, as I spoke candidly earlier, there was a period in those mid 2000s that I unraveled as a father, as a husband, and that impacted it. You know, when you, when you're a father and you have daughters, they look at you way more than just as their manager.

• 1:54:55Speaker 02

  That's why I felt so full circle. I feel like at a certain part of their careers, I think Beyonce with Lemonade and the songs, and Solange with Cranes, it felt like such a full circle moment for y'all family. Just as a person who don't know y'all, but just kind of been watching from a long way. But it just felt like a, like you said, that moment of you being in the studio with Miss Tina and just hearing your words and hearing your story and them now embracing those stories as a part of their art form. It just felt like such a full circle, like moment.

• 1:55:24Speaker 06

  Right. And, and, and, you know, I always say that when we make mistakes, we have failures. It's an opportunity to grow, not a reason to quit. And, and most of us, we first don't face up and acknowledge that we made a mistake.

• 1:55:42Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:55:42Speaker 06

  Uh, that's the only way we grow is first of all saying, hey, I fucked up. Uh, and, and then go get help and grow from it. Uh, unfortunately, I'm, you know, I'm in my eighth year, uh, married to an amazing woman that also has impacted my life. Gina, I would marry a Tina and a Gina. I sometimes get.

• 1:56:08Speaker 06

  I sometimes get confused.

• 1:56:09Speaker 07

  Oh, no. Oh, man, don't do that. Don't do that, bro.

• 1:56:13Speaker 02

  You know, it's how it is. It knows me like my former wife, so I don't have to even say the name.

• 1:56:17Speaker 07

  Right, right, right.

• 1:56:21Speaker 06

  But you know, Tina, Tina and I are really friends. Uh, she's an amazing woman and, uh, I will always honor her. I never use that word X because I think that diminishes and it's a negative. Uh, and out of respect, I don't use that word. I just say my former wife. And Gina, Gina was Vanessa Williams assistant and international road manager for 10 years. Uh, my former, um, real model, uh, so she has experience in entertainment. And our whole key is we don't talk business unless, unless I need a sounding board.

• 1:57:05Speaker 06

  Uh, we don't talk business and that can really devastate a family when you, you can be talking about dinner and that becomes, yeah, but what about this song? What if we did that?

• 1:57:19Speaker 07

  Yeah. And, oh, man. And that's what I was asking earlier. I'm like, yo, how do you draw that line? Because it's so, I know some people that can work with business.

• 1:57:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's why I was looking at you, man.

• 1:57:28Speaker 07

  Yo, I just, working with family, like, yo, that is so, oh, my God, that's such a fucking head. A head trip, man.

• 1:57:35Speaker 06

  Yeah, and, and that, that became a real challenge in, in our, our, our family dynamics is separating the two. When are you a dad and, and when are you a manager? And especially, it's easy with all my other artists because I was their manager. Or actually, I was, most people think I was the manager. I, I, I did more record label stuff than, than management. But with your, with Destiny's Child, it was difficult because I have a fiduciary, fiduciary duty to all four of the ladies or three of the ladies. And actually Beyonce actually probably got hurt more than anybody because I was tougher

• 1:58:20Speaker 06

  uh, on her than the others.

• 1:58:24Speaker 02

  I appreciate you with all this evolution. Mm, mm, mm.

• 1:58:27Speaker 06

  You can tell when somebody's lying, man.

• 1:58:30Speaker 02

  Listen.

• 1:58:31Speaker 06

  I'm just giving you truth.

• 1:58:32Speaker 02

  Listen. Yeah, it sounds so easy, but it's not easy for everybody.

• 1:58:36Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:58:43Questlove?

  Hey, Dr. Knowles, um, can you talk about your, um, your battle with cancer? And how you've handled it? And, you know, to be honest with you, it's, it's very rare that I hear men speak of breast cancer. I didn't even, I didn't know that was a thing.

• 1:59:00Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:59:00Questlove?

  Um, can you, and I, most of us didn't even know that you were going through this. Can you walk us through the process of, of your discovery of it and how?

• 1:59:10Speaker 06

  Yeah, I'd love to. I'd love to. You know, oddly enough, when I was the number one sales rep at Xerox Medical System, oddly enough, what I sold was zero radiography, which in the eighties was the leading modality for breast cancer detection. Go figure.

• 1:59:28Questlove?

  Wow, the irony.

• 1:59:29Speaker 07

  Wow, man, okay.

• 1:59:31Speaker 06

  Uh, and even back in the eighties, we realized and talked about, um, men and breast cancer. I'm really about messaging, so I chose not to message as male breast cancer, but male chest cancer. And I've gotten support from the medical communities and, and every man that I've talked to, uh, because a lot of the stigma and it brings the embarrassment for men to use that word breast and also in respect to women. Because it's three, four guys now and one woman, none of us would be, other guys would

• 2:00:15Speaker 06

  think hardly twice to take our shirt off. A woman's not going to do that. That's a special sanctuary place for a woman. So I, I choose to say male chest cancer. And, and a lot of that stigma and the way I make it really come home is for women, if you were going to have to open a door that said male prostate exam, I think you'd be quite embarrassed. And, and for men, when we have to open a door that says female breast center or women's breast center, that's quite embarrassing. That's not something you feel good about.

• 2:00:56Speaker 06

  So first of all, I like to just, really on the messaging of how we, we say it. The second thing for me, I knew because I, I, I sold the equipment and I had, uh, I, I used to wear, I still do, white T-shirts, uh, a lot under my shirts. And I noticed one day a dot. So imagine you had a white sheet of paper and you had a dot. I didn't think anything. I actually thought my wife had bought some new T-shirts and maybe it was just a manufacturing malfunction. The next day I noticed five or six dots.

• 2:01:36Speaker 06

  Then I, the next day I said to my wife, I was like, huh, did you buy some new T-shirts? I see these little red dots. And she was like, that's interesting because when I cleaned your sheets today, there was a bunch of red dots of blood on your side of the bed. Again, just imagine several dots like on a white sheet of paper. Well, through my training of selling zero radiography, that is a very common sign for men. And, and so I knew that and went immediately got a mammogram, then got a biopsy and then literally a week later, uh, had surgery.

• 2:02:20Speaker 06

  That's not the end of the story. That's just the beginning. Doing surgery, uh, and there was a delay. We should have done this before, but we didn't. I won't get into that. But when we did the pathology, it turned out that genetically, which is where medicine is going, that I had a genetic malfunction. And because of that genetic malfunction, uh, called BRCA2 mutation, it means that for men, that we have a higher risk of prostate cancer, male chest cancer, cancer, pancreatic

• 2:03:04Speaker 06

  cancer and melanoma from a genetic standpoint. And so a lot of men are walking around thinking prostate, when the real cost of it, real cause of it, rather, is because they have male chest cancer. And we're finding this out, uh, and, and I'm part of research at the University of Pennsylvania, actually.

• 2:03:31Speaker 07

  Whoa, whoa.

• 2:03:33Speaker 06

  I've come, been there, uh, that's where I'm part of the research there. This is my second year of recovery. Uh, I always say today I'm cancer free, uh, but it also meant a lifestyle change. And I get really excited, Questlove, when I hear you talk about weight loss. Uh, it's a sensitive subject in the black community. My dad was obese. I've been obese. Um, myself, I was up to 268. Uh, I'm now at 235. My goal is to get to 230, which is easy, you know, should be something that I can obtain.

• 2:04:12Speaker 06

  It meant also in that lifestyle change, stopping, uh, drinking alcohol. It also meant in that life because of the sugar and because also just the effect of being crazy on alcohol.

• 2:04:26Speaker 07

  Yeah. Were you a big drinker? Was that, was that a thing for you? You were a big drinker?

• 2:04:29Speaker 06

  Uh, I wouldn't say a big, but.

• 2:04:32Questlove?

  Or celebratory drinker.

• 2:04:34Speaker 06

  But when I did drink, I drank, you know?

• 2:04:36Speaker 07

  Okay, gotcha.

• 2:04:37Speaker 06

  Uh, it, it meant, it meant, uh, changing my diet. I don't, seldom I eat meat and when I do, it's only chicken or fish.

• 2:04:48Speaker 06

  This week, uh, most weeks is mainly vegetables. Uh, so I changed my eating habits. Uh, I exercised. I just got a knee replacement four and a half months ago, which is doing really good. Uh, just my basketball days, but, uh, I was up to jogging two miles a day. Uh, and I'm getting there. I'm on the bike, five miles on the bike.

• 2:05:12Speaker 07

  You on the Peloton?

• 2:05:15Speaker 06

  Uh, only if it's the Beyonce version.

• 2:05:21Speaker 06

  You know, you know, the one thing I brought to the music industry was branding and endorsement, which, uh, the industry was selling records. I was selling a brand, which is totally different, but to get back. Uh, so it meant the lifestyle changed for me and, and, uh, I've accepted that. Uh, I've seen the results. Uh, every six months I've been getting a mammogram, uh, MRI. I sold MRI.

• 2:05:49Speaker 02

  Is it more painful for you, Dr. Knowles? Because I was wondering for men and a mammogram, I'm, I'mma just have a truthful moment. I'm having my first one. I'm having my first one this year. And my biggest fear is just how painful I've heard that it is, but especially maybe if you don't have a lot of tissue up there. So I imagine that is.

• 2:06:06Speaker 06

  Well, I put things in perspective. Uh, if I can save my life.

• 2:06:12Speaker 02

  Okay, there you go.

• 2:06:12Speaker 06

  Because of two, two minutes of fucking pain.

• 2:06:16Speaker 02

  Okay, you are. The fucking helps, alright.

• 2:06:20Questlove?

  Take them tigs and get tested.

• 2:06:22Speaker 02

  I am. I'm doing it in two weeks. Alright. I just don't want it to buzz. I just don't want it to buzz.

• 2:06:27Speaker 07

  It ain't gonna bust. It's not gonna bust.

• 2:06:31Speaker 06

  Two minutes, like.

• 2:06:33Speaker 02

  Two minutes? That's it? Two minutes?

• 2:06:35Speaker 06

  Yeah, each one. I mean, you know, they might.

• 2:06:40Speaker 06

  I mean, at most, but it's based on the different angles.

• 2:06:43Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:06:44Speaker 06

  Overall, it'll be about 20 minutes, but that's about it. But we put it in perspective. It's just the rewards and early detection.

• 2:06:53Speaker 02

  Is best, yes.

• 2:06:55Speaker 06

  And, and this is for men and women as medicine is changing. Um, we're understand, I say we, I'm not a medical doctor. Uh, I just say we as I'm a cancer survivor, uh, are understanding. Family history, you know, black people, we don't pay attention to our family history. It's right there in front of you. If you just take a moment to ask what the mama and them and uncle and them and grandma and them died of, you might see, you might see a common thread.

• 2:07:29Questlove?

  Sugar Steve, how, how you doing in your, uh, your journey? There's a reason we call him Sugar Steve.

• 2:07:36Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah, um.

• 2:07:38Speaker 02

  How are your levels?

• 2:07:40Speaker 07

  Yeah, everything, as long as you manage stuff, you know, you can, it's something you can live with. I got the diabetes doctor.

• 2:07:48Speaker 06

  Well, uh, you understand weight loss and diet. You, you understand that and exercise.

• 2:07:55Speaker 07

  Yeah, trying, trying to be good.

• 2:07:58Speaker 06

  No, we don't try shit, Sugar Steve.

• 2:08:00Speaker 02

  This is what I'm telling you.

• 2:08:02Speaker 06

  We don't use try in our vocabulary. We fucking do.

• 2:08:05Speaker 07

  Do or do not. There is no try. Yes.

• 2:08:10Questlove?

  I was gonna ask your daughters, can, can I get adopted in this family?

• 2:08:15Speaker 02

  I can imagine.

• 2:08:18Speaker 07

  Do it or don't. There is no try.

• 2:08:19Speaker 06

  Well, I always thank you. I, I, I can't begin to tell you how grateful I was to see that time when you, out of all the people in the world, you say to 10 people you would like to have dinner with and you said me. I was like, what? Why?

• 2:08:37Speaker 02

  You just proved it today.

• 2:08:38Questlove?

  The, the backstory is basically, I did this thing and, um, oh, when I did, uh, when I, when I did my, uh, my, my food book, uh, uh, Pileup Next Tape. And, um, New York Times asked me to name, uh, I'm, I'm known up here for my, my dinner parties. And, uh, so they asked me, you know, who, who did I think would make, uh, an interesting, uh, dinner guest? And, you know, at the time when salons really, really sold us on you, it was during that period. Um, and then I just really went down a rabbit hole of like all of your interviews. And I was just like, yo, like he really, he has a story to tell that I really wasn't

• 2:09:20Questlove?

  e- expecting because I think men in your position, like we, we've been sold all of our lives. We've been sold the hustler. You know what I mean? The hustler that, you know, even, even the hustler like wins the game and that sort of thing. But we, we haven't been sold like the strategist.

• 2:09:39Speaker 07

  Visionary.

• 2:09:40Questlove?

  Or, yeah, that sort of thing. And, and that's why like this.

• 2:09:43Speaker 02

  Cause black people can't vision, they can't do that, right? They just a hustler.

• 2:09:47Speaker 06

  That's the media, you know, that's the Jedi mind trick. That's, you know, behind the decision-making of TV and, and, you know, it's typically a white person. Uh, you know, I just, uh, this summer, this is my second summer, uh, going to Harvard and taking professional development. And so I, I took this summer cultural intelligence, um, which really increased my awareness of how culturally different that we are.

• 2:10:19Speaker 07

  And these are classes that you're taking, that you're enrolled in.

• 2:10:21Speaker 06

  Yeah, that I, that I, I, I took ethical leadership last summer. Um, you know, you get to know me. I'm not the guy that they picture at all.

• 2:10:30Speaker 02

  Man, we know.

• 2:10:32Speaker 06

  I, I, I, see, I play the media like they play us.

• 2:10:39Speaker 07

  Okay, okay, talk about it.

• 2:10:42Speaker 06

  I won't get into that one.

• 2:10:48Speaker 07

  Country dumb. I get country dumb.

• 2:10:50Speaker 06

  But, but you know, they wanna always paint a picture of who we are and, and success that it can't be because as you said, uh, that we're strategists or that we're smart. It has to be, or we had a vision. Uh, it has to be with Swengali, you know? We've gotta always be that, you know? And that was always black radio, my, my challenge to black radio. And when they used to have like an entertainer segment and, and it would always be negativity on black artists. That, look guys, we, we need you to do the reverse.

• 2:11:32Speaker 06

  Uh, but unfortunately how social media has impacted our young people. Uh, negativity and the Jedi mind trick is how they're played every day. You know, I've said in meetings, our young people have no idea how, and when we learned through the last election, Russia, uh, we found, who did they go to? Black people on social media.

• 2:11:56Questlove?

  Right.

• 2:11:56Speaker 06

  You know, we get played on this social media stuff. It's not news anymore. It's, it's social conversation.

• 2:12:06Questlove?

  I, I gotta know. I mean, really like, you know, I, I haven't, I haven't had goosebumps moments like this from someone talking since like my mom used to religiously like watch Les Brown talk.

• 2:12:20Speaker 07

  Les Brown. This is Baby Brown's baby boy, Les Brown.

• 2:12:24Speaker 06

  Yeah, I like Les. I like Les a lot.

• 2:12:26Questlove?

  Yeah, uh, I, and I know it might, well, yeah, I, I do know that you've done TED Talks and you teach at universities and whatnot. But, I mean, have you really considered like motivational speaking?

• 2:12:41Speaker 06

  I do a lot of that.

• 2:12:42Speaker 02

  I'm about to say, yeah.

• 2:12:43Questlove?

  Where can we see you? Cause.

• 2:12:46Speaker 06

  Yeah, even my TED Talk, my TED Talk is a motivational. It's on the DNA of achievers.

• 2:12:51Speaker 02

  Oh, that's it right there. The TED Talk.

• 2:12:53Speaker 06

  And, and what, what is that? I mean, I talk, I do a lot of motivational stuff. Uh, on even in entrepreneurship, you know, and, and motivating our people and understanding the who, the what, the why. Who is the customer? What is the product? And why does somebody should buy it? And motivating them to understanding that process. Uh, you know, we've been, gosh, we go back to the culture of black people and slavery and how it still impacts us in a negative way, you know? Policing came about through slavery. If you go back, you'll see in 1800s, just post-slavery,

• 2:13:34Speaker 06

  bam, police, policing started, you know, we, we, this whole thing of colorism started in slavery. Uh, when it got off the ship, there was babies that came out looking white. It's just such a cultural conditioning that we have to overcome as black people. Cultural conditioning.

• 2:13:55Speaker 02

  I appreciate you for speaking on that colorism too, cause I know that you and the media even try to. Speak on that, but it's things that we need to talk about.

• 2:14:06Speaker 06

  We don't grow without being uncomfortable. My job in life is to make people uncomfortable. And I had fun with Charlamagne. I kicked his ass.

• 2:14:22Speaker 06

  Just spanked his ass all over the room.

• 2:14:29Speaker 07

  It was the moment, the moment where it went left.

• 2:14:36Speaker 07

  Yo, the recap, so like Charlamagne is doing show and it was a piece of Charlamagne.

• 2:14:42Speaker 07

  All of that, you know what I'm saying? So it's all whatever. But listen though, nah. So they're going for whatever and Charlamagne is kind of trying to get at him. So Mr. Knowles just stops and he's like, you're really sad. Why are you so sad? And yo, you, the look on Charlamagne's face, he was like, oh shit, I wasn't expecting. Like it was so. Oh god, it was so fucking brilliant. I was like.

• 2:15:15Speaker 06

  Yeah, and I asked him, I said, you know, Charlamagne, this moment, what feelings are coming up for you?

• 2:15:20Speaker 02

  Well, that's a black man in therapy, so he already know.

• 2:15:23Speaker 06

  And that's a black man in therapy. And we continue to talk and I said, Charlamagne, you on that short bus, brother. And by the way, you got too much fucking makeup on.

• 2:15:51Speaker 07

  Also, okay, so while we talking about it, so being that you, you know, you manage your daughters, you were over their careers. You know, you're good, they're gonna write songs that are personal and, you know, may talk about family stuff and, and all of that. How, what was your response to Lemonade and hearing that record? What was your thought on it?

• 2:16:08Speaker 06

  Well, I think everybody should occasionally have a glass of lemonade and have a seat and have a seat at the table.

• 2:16:17Speaker 02

  Always marketing, it's about the brand, it's about the brand.

• 2:16:25Speaker 07

  I ain't got no lemonade, I got me some ginger ale. I drank some ginger ale today.

• 2:16:28Speaker 06

  Well, you should have a seat at the table then.

• 2:16:34Speaker 06

  This has been fun. I, I, you just got me.

• 2:16:39Speaker 06

  Unapologetically, you know.

• 2:16:42Speaker 02

  Take all this appreciation and it represents at least a million black folks that been appreciating you, like for real, like this.

• 2:16:49Speaker 06

  And I thank you for acknowledging that.

• 2:16:54Questlove?

  Your rigorous honesty, your, your, your messaging, you know, we should, we should. You know, happiness and, and, and joy should be.

• 2:17:08Questlove?

  I'm really, this was not the, the phone call, uh, the, the, the conversation that I, I.

• 2:17:19Questlove?

  I'm, I'm, I'm just, yo, thank you. This was me watching this episode. I don't even feel like I participated.

• 2:17:30Speaker 06

  You know, when you interviewed with me, I, I got to listen to your journey and it was similar because you shared your journey. And I think the more we share our journeys with people and let them know the challenges that we have to overcome. That we're no different than anybody else, no better, none of that. Uh, we wake up in the morning and we go to bed at night hoping for another day. And the beauty about that is I like to always leave, uh. You know, I travel, as you know, a lot and I was in LA back in the two thousands and I was going down an escalator at LAX.

• 2:18:10Speaker 06

  And there was a nun from Mexico who gave, had a jar that said, please give to the missionary. And I learned not to be judgmental. I, I, I give when people ask. And she gave me a card and, and literally because I used to have, you know, you can imagine. In the heyday, how many business cards and CDs people were giving me. And I finally looked at that card, it might've been a month later. And, and that's what I, I like to leave you with. It said, pray not for a life free from trouble. Pray for triumph over trouble.

• 2:18:53Speaker 06

  For what you and I call adversity, the universe. God, Allah, whatever name, calls opportunity. For what you and I call adversity. The universe, God, Allah, calls opportunity. We pray too much that bad shit ain't gonna happen. It is. Look when it happened, what is the opportunity? When I came with male chest cancer, it gave me the opportunity to share that with other. People, hopefully save some lives, just by being honest about it and open.

• 2:19:34Speaker 06

  And for everybody, when bad stuff happen, look at it as an opportunity rather than, oh man, some bad shit happened.

• 2:19:42Speaker 07

  Mr. Knowles, how do you, in the artists that you work with, when you working with younger guys? Cause I'm just sitting here listening to this conversation now and I mean, I'm forty-two now, so now a lot of this shit is resonating with me. But had I heard it at twenty-two, it, you know, maybe not so much. So with all just the experience and, and knowledge and game that you have, when you're working with younger artists, how do you make that knowledge palatable to them?

• 2:20:04Speaker 06

  Well, you know, I don't, you know, I'm done with that.

• 2:20:10Speaker 06

  I'm quickly eager, excited to say I'm done on the music side. I do have three or four film and TV projects that we're working on. You know, when I was in the business, it used to really surprise the artists who come to music world and ready to sing, rap. Have a band and I wouldn't do that. I would want them to sit down on the sofa in my office and I wanted to talk to them. I wanted to get to know and understand, is this really truly your passion or a hobby? And for most people. It's hobbies and, and that's what I always look for if they were passionate.

• 2:20:53Speaker 06

  If they were passionate, then it, I could work with that. But most people really aren't passionate because they don't know what their passion. They don't understand when you live this thing called passion, that you never work a day in your life. They don't know what coexists with passion is work ethics. You find somebody that passionate, they work their butts off because they love it. And, and when even Questlove, when you were saying it earlier. About all the things you were doing, I was asking, but was he passionate about that? Because if you were, it wouldn't work to you. It was fun.

• 2:21:32Speaker 06

  And, and, and I see my girls and Beyonce and Solange and they work hard, but they actually. Love to the core what they do, to the core.

• 2:21:46Speaker 02

  What a blessing through your journey that that's what your babies can do. That's what a blessing.

• 2:21:50Questlove?

  Yo, just thank you, Dr. Knowles. I appreciate it. Um, I gotta wrap this episode up, man.

• 2:22:00Questlove?

  I say this a lot. I'm definitely sticking to it. This is in my top five episodes of this five year. Maybe since the day, I don't know, the moon, whatever.

• 2:22:12Speaker 06

  Thank you, thank you.

• 2:22:13Questlove?

  I needed to hear this today.

• 2:22:14Speaker 07

  Nah, for real, this is necessary.

• 2:22:16Questlove?

  I'm gonna call my mama and my girlfriend right now.

• 2:22:22Speaker 06

  See, he's not gonna cry on, on, on the air.

• 2:22:38Speaker 06

  And when you come this way, we gotta get together and if I come your way, let's promise, we go, let's promise we're gonna have a meal.

• 2:22:45Questlove?

  I, yes, I, I will contact you through Liah. I promise. I, I really needed this conversation. Thank you very much, Dr. Knowles. This is Questlove. We will see, I don't even think we need to do no more episodes.

• 2:23:05Questlove?

  Yes, exactly. All right. Thank you, guys. Uh, we'll see you on the next go around. Thank you.

• 2:23:14Speaker 07

  Yo, what's up? This is Fonte. Make sure you keep up with us on Instagram at QLS and let us know what you think and who should be next to sit down with us. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast. All right? Peace.

• 2:23:34Speaker 07

  Questlove Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

• 2:23:39Speaker 07

  For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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• 2:25:52Questlove?

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