Pod Insights The Moth Banned Books Week: The Moth Podcast About this episode This week is Banned Books week, and to honor that, we’ll be sharing stories about censorship, courage, and the importance of the written word. This episode was hosted by Cleyvis Natera.
Storytellers:
Mohammed Bin Khulayf tells us about meeting a man in a parking lot to buy banned books.
Toby Price faces unexpected consequences when he introduces his students to a book he and his family love.
Podcast # 941
Transcript 0:02 Speaker 00 Welcome to The Moth. I'm Klevez Natera. I'm a moth storyteller, I'm a teacher, and most importantly for this episode, I'm a writer. This week is banned books week, and to honor that, we'll be sharing stories about censorship, courage, and the importance of the written word. I'll talk a bit more about why this week is so critical later in the episode, but let's start with a story. Mohammed bin Khulayf told us at a Houston Stories Slam where the theme of the night was, appropriately enough, books. Here's Mohammed, live at The Moth.
0:38 Speaker 01 I wonder how many of you had to meet strangers in parking lot to buy books. Otherwise, you probably never lived in a third world country where censorship impact your buying purchases. In Saudi Arabia, where I grew up, the government censor books, where there are certain books you're allowed to buy and there's books that they're just not allowed. Any books that explicitly argues with evolution, or against the governments, or against religion, they will be straight up banned. So, I don't know if you all remember message boards and internet forum, that's when I
1:18 Speaker 01 would go and know about what books are banned, and what like hot, so I could go and chase down for those books, because I'm not buying available books. I'm buying all the banned ones that the government told me I should not read. But the problem is, there's a lot of books that are not available, that we assume they're banned. So when we want to buy banned books, we would hear of a friend, of a friend, or a cousin, or someone off the online, or going to a neighboring country, so we would send them a list. We would be like, this is the books that we're looking for, Michael Jackson cassettes, the Titanic.
2:01 Speaker 01 And we would meet in a parking lot, and we either give them money, or we exchange with other banned books and other cassettes.
2:13 Speaker 01 If you travel to an neighboring country in Saudi Arabia, bookstores would have literally a section of banned books in Saudi Arabia. Because they know we would spend any money to get a banned book. There is a trick or a loophole in the system where we could buy, where we could get our hands on banned books. That's Riyadh International Book Fair, and I recommend you check out their Wikipedia page, because there is a lot of scandals there. Because there's a lot of books that come to Saudi at one time, and a lot of them are new, that Saudi government did not have a chance to review, they would be a chance of getting banned books.
2:55 Speaker 01 The agency that enforces banned books are religious police, and they will walk into the book fair, chasing down people buying books, and they will take them off of their hand. And they will be at the gates, looking at what you bought, and they will check out the books. And they will read it, and they'll be like, "Oh, there are animals talking in this book." And the other person will be like, "Yeah, that sounds quite socialist." And I'll be like, "It's the animal farms. They're for kids. Why would you take that away from me?" I've always wanted to read Dosty Viski, and I could not find any of his works, so I assumed they were banned.
3:37 Speaker 01 On the internet, there's always mention of a very specific translation. His name is Sami Al-Drubi, and he is a very popular Syrian translator. He is the authority of Russian literature. And if you wanted to read Dosty Viski, you want to read his books. And they were the ones that were the most wanted on my list. And every year at the book fair, I would ask for them. One year, I went on a Wednesday morning, the men's only day. And I walked in early in the morning, before the religious police could come in, and I went to the publisher, and I shattered him up. He was getting set up, drinking his cardamom tea. And I started to get to know him, and I started complaining about censorship,
4:22 Speaker 01 and all the politics and whatnot. And I told him how I've always wanted Dosty Viski's books. And he's like, "Okay, I got you."
4:32 Speaker 01 I have them. I was like, "You have the Ostrowski's? I've always wanted them." "How much?" And he's like, "I have all of his work. Eighteen volume, the complete work, the Ostrowski's, translated."
4:46 Speaker 01 "You have to meet me tomorrow morning in the parking lot."
4:52 Speaker 01 "I will be..." "Come at my white van, knock on the door at 9:30."
4:59 Speaker 01 "Bring five hundred dollar cash."
5:04 Speaker 01 I was like, "Oh my God." I would text all my friends. "Should we get in? Like, everyone put in some money? We would buy the whole compilation." No one ever, I know, has the books. I would be able to trade for any band books. I would be trade for any music I wanted. I would have monopoly over all the band books. That's gonna be my entry. I was like, "Sure, whatever. I will meet you tomorrow." I brought money. And he opened the van, and, oh my God! There were all those duckle edges all over his van.
5:42 Speaker 01 It was amazing. And he opened the box, and I see all the work. Oh, great. Eighteen volume, black and gold. They were so old, yellow pages. They were so dusty and smelly. It smells so good. It smells like spiders been having sex all over them. It's so amazing. I don't know if you know that smell? That is so good. Such a good smell. And I was like, "Yes, I got the box. I go home. I didn't even open it." And he told me to promise him not to post it on the internet because he does not wanna get in trouble. And I was like, "Sure, I will wait until the end." Because there is a thread on the internet where we post about our hauls. And usually, it's a picture of band books.
6:27 Speaker 01 So, I waited. A few days later, I go in, and I wanted to see what everyone has been posting, what they have been reading. And everyone has been posting the same books I just bought five hundred dollar for.
6:43 Speaker 01 Apparently that year, it became available, but he took advantage of how much I wanted to get banned books. And I honestly did not want to read them anymore. They're not hot anymore. They were available at the normal bookstores, where you buy The Habit Trap and all those normal books. I wanted to get banned books. That's what I always wanted. Thank you so much for listening.
7:13 Speaker 00 That was Mohammed bin Khulayf. Originally from Riyadh, Mohammed lives in Montrose, where he helps first-time buyers navigate Houston's wild real estate ride. A former bartender and newspaper writer, he loves stories, loud dinners, and the quiet magic of helping people feel like they finally belong. At the Moth, we think that storytelling is important, that it connects people, that stories should be heard. It's kind of our whole deal. And this Banned Books Week, we hope you'll reflect on how easy it is for stories to be unheard. As a writer myself, I first learned about the power of language as a young child. I immigrated to the United States at 10 years old,
7:58 Speaker 00 and my father stayed behind in the Dominican Republic. This was back in the late 80s, when no one in my immigrant family had long-distance calling in our Washington Heights neighborhood of New York City. Once a month, my family and I would walk a few blocks to the closest calling center and call my father. Each of us kids only had a couple of minutes to speak, and I felt this incredible obligation to make those few words count, to help my father, who had never traveled to the United States, understand this new place, see it alongside with me to help me make sense of it. Over the years, I think about those conversations as the first seeds of my passion for storytelling. Those brief and silly stories I told my dad
8:42 Speaker 00 had the power to collapse the thousands of miles between us, make me feel closer to him, find my way during uncertain times. When I think about the books that have Have done the same things for me, made me feel closer to fictional characters and their circumstances, helped me to see the world in uncertain terms. Many top the list of most banned books. Here, I'm speaking about Maya Angelou's I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings, Harper Lee's To Kill a Mockingbird, Alice Walker's The Color Purple, Toni Morrison's The Song of Solomon, and Margaret Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale. These books, among so many others, have moved me from a space of awe and contemplation toward inspiration,
9:27 Speaker 00 knowing that the writer's job is to inspire in our readers questions that may lead to a desire for lasting change. What could be more dangerous to those who seek to silence us than the certainty that together we are a chorus, that together we could change the world? We'll be back in a moment with another story.
9:51 Speaker 00 Welcome back. Toby Price told our next story at a Jackson, Mississippi main stage, where the theme of the night was holding on and letting go. Here's Toby, live at the mic.
10:09 Speaker 02 I was spinning the rack, looking through the comic books that I wanted to buy before my dad paid for the gas. And he walked up to me and he said, what you got there? And I said, well, I got a few books. I can't decide on which ones to get. And he said, get them all. Because see, when I was little, I used to think that reading was boring. But it turns out it wasn't boring. I just needed to practice. And my dad figured out to get me to practice, he needed to give me the books that I wanted to read. Captain America, The Avengers, Spider-Man. Y'all, I love Spider-Man. Spider-Man was a nerd just
10:51 Speaker 02 like me. He was smart. I was smart. He married way out of his league. So did I.
11:00 Speaker 02 He could climb walls. I tried too many times and it didn't work. But all of that reading and all that practicing helped me become a better reader. It helped me decide what I wanted to do when I got, you know, grow, when I grow up. I wanted to be a superhero. But sadly, I don't think I would look as good in the tights as they do. So I did the next best thing. If I wanted to be a hero, I decided to go to school and become a school teacher.
11:31 Speaker 02 And like most folks, as soon as I graduated school, there I was, running a local restaurant here in town. I enjoyed it. I had regulars who would come see me every day. And I had one regular in particular who showed up one day with a friend. And she and the friend started speaking to me. And it turns out the friend was a principal at a nearby elementary school. She said, "I have a job for you. It's with the first grade class." I said, "Well, hmm, okay." I did all my training with fourth grade. She said, "That's not gonna be a problem. All you have to promise me is that you just won't quit." And I went and met the class.
12:12 Speaker 02 And after spending about 10 minutes with these friends, I learned what happened to the first two teachers. Yep. They were, now I would call it challenging. But every day when I walked into that room, I wasn't gonna quit. And I thought about what my second grade teacher used to tell us. That everybody has something to contribute. And I thought that about my class as well. They taught me so many things. They taught me to be patient. And they taught me to, most of all, see the value in every child. And I didn't know it at the time, but they were shaping the type of teacher I would become, but most importantly, the type of parent I would become later on.
12:58 Speaker 02 Fast forward about seven or eight years in time, and I have one, two, three kids now. My two oldest are autistic. They were diagnosed at an early age. My oldest is nonverbal. My son, my middle child, he's a little more verbal. We weren't planning on having a third, and I asked God, "You giving us a third child? Give me one that can talk," God, and he said, "All right, watch this." And we always tell folks, "She was four, going on 40." And I was gonna do with them the same thing that my dad did with me. And I was gonna share some of my favorite books with them. So with my son, we got out the Spider-Man comics, and he loved Wonder Woman. Hmm. With my youngest, she was a reader.
13:41 Speaker 02 I got out Harry Potter, and she loved reading about the Titanic and World War II and nonfiction. We did find some books that we really enjoyed together. I had heard about a book on Twitter where I talked to a bunch of my teacher friends, and it was called "I Need a New Butt" by Don McMillan. It was a picture book for kids, and I found a copy at the local Walmart. And I read it to my kids, and they loved it, every second of it. "I Need a New Butt," followed by "I Broke My Butt." "My Butt Is Noisy." Yes, my personal favorite. And most recently, we were at the Walmart, and we found a copy of "My Butt Is So Silly."
14:23 Speaker 02 And we all kinda clamored over who was gonna get to grab it off the shelf and read it first. And we got in the car, and we read it on the way home. And we laughed, and we giggled, because kids need those silly books, those funny books. That's what hooks them into being readers and becoming readers. Well, let's fast forward from that time to Read Across a Miracle Week, Dr. Seuss's birthday. "I was an assistant principal in a school, and my boss asked me to set up a Zoom meeting with 12 second-grade classes and a principal of a nearby building who would be their principal next year." "I got you, no problem." So all 12 classes logged into the Zoom, and I was the host.
15:06 Speaker 02 And I looked at my watch, and our guest reader was not there. I text her, no answer. I called, nothing. I told my boss what had happened and she said, "You go ahead and read." So I turned around and looked in my shelf and there it was. "I needed to hook these kids. I needed them to laugh. I was gonna grab 'I Need a New Butt' by Don McMillan." And I did. I went through and I showed them the pictures in the book and I read the story to them. And they howled when they saw the little boy slide down the banister and think that he broke his butt because there was a crack in it. They giggled.
15:47 Speaker 02 And y'all, they were rolling when he thought about, "What if I had a rocket butt that could blast me into outer space?" After I finished the story, I saw some of my friends in the hall and they come up and they said, "Mr. Price, we love that story. Thank you so much." It made me feel good. Made my heart, you know, grow nine sizes that day. And then I was called to the principal's office. Even when you're a grown-up, that's no fun getting called to the principal's office. And my principal, she told me, "Mr. Price, we have to talk about that book that you read today. I don't know if it was the most appropriate book. Some parents may complain." And I said, "Well, that's not a problem. I'm so sorry.
16:31 Speaker 02 If someone complains, I'm more than happy to talk to them and apologize." She said, "Okay, okay. We'll have to talk about it some more later." I said, "Yes, ma'am." I left her office and about 15 minutes later, I got called back to her office because the superintendent wanted to see me at the district office. And I drove to the district office on the other side of town and walked into the building in the conference room with the superintendent and assistant superintendent. And y'all, they let me have it because I chose this book. That day, they sent me home, suspended with pay, pending investigation because parents are gonna call. Two days later, they called me back out to the district office. Y'all, and I was a nervous wreck anyways because I, just talking about it, I've never
17:14 Speaker 02 been in trouble like that before with these folks, ever. They called me back to the district office. And they did, came to a decision and said, "Mr. Price, we just can't get past this. I just can't get past why you chose to read this book. It was poor professional judgment and because of which, we're terminating your contract effective immediately."
17:36 Speaker 02 And I froze. I'm a dad of kids with autism. We don't sleep at night. We just worry with our eyes closed on a normal day. You know, how am I gonna pay for therapy? Medicine? Bill? Luxuries like food, lights, and water. They told me, um, you could sign this resignation and we can part ways. Or you go home and think about it and decide if you want to appeal this. You'll have to find an attorney and we can start an appeal process. And they left me in the room. And I called my wife. I told my wife what had happened. And she said, "We've been married 21 years. If you were wrong, I would tell you you were wrong.
18:21 Speaker 02 But you weren't wrong. So you're not signing that resignation." Yeah. Thank you. She said, "Pick your head up high. Don't let them see you cry and walk right out of that building and come home." And I did just that. I picked my head up high, didn't let them see me cry, and drove right down the street to the Dollar General for a box of Little Debbie zebra cakes. It's true. If you're gonna eat your emotions, there's no better way than Little Debbie zebra cakes. Well, after that, my wife and I found an attorney and we began the appeal process. Y'all, I've never been in trouble before, so this was all new territory for me.
19:05 Speaker 02 But day one of the appeal went a little bit like this. We had an expert witness come to say that reading kids' silly books is good pedagogy or teaching. They objected. "We have evidence of other books." Objection. "We have affidavits from other educators." Objection. See a pattern? I learned some interesting things that day that I did not know, like the superintendent. Had no idea who Shel Silverstein was. Had never heard of No David. Had never heard of a cow to coddle Ward. Or worst off, and this one, my wife grabbed my leg and she'd never heard of Captain Underpants.
19:52 Speaker 02 And most importantly, that day, I learned that not one parent complaint was submitted into evidence. Not one.
20:05 Speaker 02 Well, the second day of the appeal was a lot more arduous than I had expected. They, it was my turn to testify, and they got to ask me questions. And they all but accused me of being a liar, a thief, and a pedophile. It was a terrible, terrible day. The whole process is still ongoing. And just stopping and thinking about it now makes me really sad. I had a friend who came to my house and told me, "Dude, after what happened, I took Walter the farting dog off my shelf and took it home." He's a second-grade teacher. I know. And it made me think that, wow, this is, this is a big deal because teachers like him and teachers like me, they're not gonna read those fun, silly books to kids
20:50 Speaker 02 like we want them to. And kids need those books, not just because they're hilarious. No. If you can hook a child with the funny and the silly books and make them think, "Wow, I wanna read that," they'll stick around and read more and find out all of the wonderful things that books can be besides just funny and silly. You know, some days as a teacher, you feel like Captain America. You're up there, smiling, high-fiving, and changing lives. And other days, you're like Peter Parker, sitting in that tiny, broken-down apartment, bandaging your wounds, literally and metaphorically and emotionally, wondering, "Is this all worth it? Am I even making a difference?
21:35 Speaker 02 Why do I do this?" And you do it because it is the hardest job in the world, and it's the best job in the world. And now, while we wait for a decision, I'm grateful that I get to sit at home with my three friends. We're reading some Wonder Woman, some Titanic. And my oldest has developed a love for Harry Potter, Lemony Snicket, and Spider-Man. And I get to share those books with those kids today. Thank you.
22:18 Speaker 00 That was Toby Price. Toby is a children's book writer and a former teacher and elementary principal. He is a father of three beautiful kids and has been married to his lovely wife, Leah, for 21 years. He lives with his family in Mississippi. His case is still ongoing and was heard by the Mississippi State Supreme Court on September 18th. That brings us to the end of our episode. Thanks so much for joining us. From all of us here at The Moth, we hope that wherever you are, you're able to read and tell whatever stories you want.
22:55 Speaker 03 Clavis Natera is a writer whose latest novel, The Grand Paloma Resort, is available wherever you get your books. Toby Price's story was directed by Meg Bowles. This episode of The Moth Podcast was produced by Sarah Austin Jenness, Sarah Jane Johnson, and me, Mark Sollinger. The rest of The Moth's leadership team include Sarah Haberman, Christina Norman, Marina Kluchay, Jennifer Hickson, Jordan Cardinalle, Kate Tellers, Suzanne Rust, and Patricia Uranya. The Moth Podcast is presented by Odyssey. Special thanks to their executive producer, Leah Reese Dennis. All Moth stories are true, as remembered by their storytellers. For more about our podcast, information on pitching your own story, and everything else, go to our website, themoth.org.
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