The ADHD Doctor: How to Focus, Stop Procrastinating, Manage Your Emotions, & Feel in Control

If you have ever been told that you are too emotional, sensitive, anxious, hormonal, disorganized, or simply not trying hard enough, this episode is for you. There’s a chance, according to Mel’s expert guest today, that like Mel, that the root cause of what you’re struggling with is actually ADHD. Today, Dr. Sasha Hamdani, MD, a board-certified psychiatrist and leading expert on ADHD, gives you the full and comprehensive explanation you deserve. She shares that ADHD is not just about attention. It can affect your emotions, motivation, energy, sleep, appetite, relationships, and ability to handle the demands of everyday life. And these symptoms often get completely missed in women and girls. Mel gets deeply personal about being diagnosed at 47, the anxiety she experienced for decades that was due to untreated ADHD, and the emotional overwhelm she never realized was connected to ADHD. Dr. Hamdani explains why ADHD is mistaken for anxiety, depression, OCD, burnout, or hormonal issues (this is why so many people spend years believing there is something wrong with them!). This is the ultimate guide to adult ADHD. In this episode, you’ll learn: -Why ADHD is not just attention and focus; it’s also about regulating your mood, sleep, motivation, and energy. -Why ADHD is so often missed in women and girls -Why anxiety, depression, OCD, burnout, and ADHD are often confused (even by medical professionals) -Why criticism feels so overwhelming for anyone with ADHD -Why perfectionism, overworking, and people pleasing can be signs of ADHD -What is happening inside the ADHD brain -Why ADHD is not always a “superpower” -The four critical steps to take if you think you or someone you love may have ADHD -The medication, therapy, coaching, tools, and systems that may help ease symptoms of ADHD -What you can start doing while you wait for professional support -The difference between the way ADHD can look externally and how it can feel internally -How hormonal changes during puberty, postpartum, and perimenopause can intensify ADHD symptoms This is an episode about understanding your brain, recognizing lifelong patterns, and learning what kind of support may be available to you. For more resources related to today’s episode, click here for the podcast episode page: https://www.melrobbins.com/episode/episode-426/ Follow The Mel Robbins Podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themelrobbinspodcast I’m just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is NOT intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I’ll see you in the next episode. In this episode: 00:00 Meet the Guest 02:32 What Are the Symptoms of ADHD? 07:15 Why ADHD Goes Undiagnosed in Women 10:09 Why Is ADHD So Hard to Diagnose? 13:50 What Does ADHD Do to the Brain? 22:10 The 3 Types of ADHD Explained 25:03 ADHD Symptoms in Girls and Women 28:38 Can ADHD Cause Anxiety and Depression? 31:52 What to Do If You Think You Have ADHD 36:36 ADHD Masking Explained 38:41 Is ADHD a Superpower? 41:31 What Is Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria (RSD) in ADHD? 50:56 The 3 Steps to Getting Proper ADHD Treatment 01:01:41 ADHD Tools You Can Start Using Now 01:04:09 Should You Get Tested for ADHD? — Follow Mel: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/melrobbins/ TikTok: http://tiktok.com/@melrobbins Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/melrobbins LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melrobbins Website: http://melrobbins.com​ — Sign up for Mel’s newsletter: https://melrob.co/sign-up-newsletter A note from Mel to you, twice a week, sharing simple, practical ways to build the life you want. — Subscribe to Mel’s channel here: https://www.youtube.com/melrobbins​?sub_confirmation=1 — Listen to The Mel Robbins Podcast 🎧 New episodes drop every Monday & Thursday! https://melrob.co/spotify https://melrob.co/applepodcasts https://melrob.co/amazonmusic — Looking for Mel’s books on Amazon? Find them here: The Let Them Theory: https://amzn.to/3IQ21Oe The Let Them Theory Audiobook: https://amzn.to/413SObp The High 5 Habit: https://amzn.to/3fMvfPQ The 5 Second Rule: https://amzn.to/4l54fah

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Mel Robbins?

  Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

• 0:09Mel Robbins?

  I just finished a conversation that every person deserves to hear. Have you ever been told that you're anxious, depressed, hormonal, too sensitive, disorganized, not trying hard enough? This conversation may just change how you understand yourself or someone you love. I mean, I'm still in just complete shock at how new this information was, even for someone like me, who has been digging deep into the topic of ADHD with medical experts for 10 years. For 47 years, I struggled with my focus, my emotions, don't even get me started on my emotions. I was diagnosed with anxiety, I struggled with depression, I never made a deadline,

• 0:50Mel Robbins?

  I had trouble starting projects I know I needed to do, and then I was diagnosed with ADHD. And suddenly, I could see all these patterns that I'd been blaming myself for, for my entire life. Today, we're talking about ADHD with one of the most renowned medical doctors and psychiatrists who has been studying ADHD and is here with new information, at least this was brand-new for me, about the way that ADHD impacts you. Because if you think ADHD is just about attention, let me tell you, Dr. Sasha Hamdani is going to tell you, that's only a third of the picture.

• 1:32Mel Robbins?

  She's going to explain why ADHD is usually missed, especially in women and girls, just like me, and how it overlaps with emotional struggles like anxiety, depression, OCD, hormones, emotional sensitivity, and burnout. And this is not about diagnosing you, this is not about being sensational. I'm so excited for this episode to get out and to be out there for you as a free resource and for it to spread around the world. Because when you hear her explain this huge cluster of symptoms that ADHD patients in her clinical practice all struggle with, you will see yourself and you will finally stop saying, what's wrong with me? And start getting the support you deserve.

• 2:29Mel Robbins?

  Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am thrilled that you are here. Thank you for taking the time to listen to this, because what you're about to experience is extremely important, and I'm proud that you're going to have this as a free resource. It's an honor to be together, it's an honor to spend this time with you. And if you're a new listener, or you're here because somebody shared this with you, I just want to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. Today's conversation is an extremely important one, because we have a world-renowned psychiatrist who is here to give you and the people that you love a comprehensive guide to ADHD. My guest is Dr. Sasha Hamdani, a board-certified psychiatrist who is an expert in ADHD.

• 3:14Mel Robbins?

  Dr. Hamdani is the bestselling author of two books on the topic of ADHD and the science of feeling deeply and emotional sensitivity. Millions of people follow her online, where she is known as the PsychDrMD. What I love about Dr. Hamdani is her empathetic and tactical advice on ADHD, anxiety, high-functioning depression, and emotional sensitivity, which is exactly why I wanted her here to talk with you and me today. She is one of the most trusted voices online for people trying to understand what ADHD looks like in real life. Because Dr. Hamdani, in addition to being in clinical practice, treating patients with ADHD, has ADHD herself.

• 3:57Mel Robbins?

  Today, you're getting the ADHD appointment you wish you could get. And most importantly, this really mattered to me. I wanted to make sure that by the time you were done listening, you had the exact steps, and there are four of them, that you should take if any of the information that she's about to share with you today resonates with you or feels like it pertains to somebody that you love. So please help me welcome Dr. Hamdani to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me.

• 4:28Mel Robbins?

  I am beyond excited that you're here. I have been wanting to do a comprehensive and eye-opening and helpful episode about the topic of ADHD with a medical doctor for over two years.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:48Mel Robbins?

  This is a topic that impacts me at a deeply personal level, it impacts my children, it impacts my husband, because he has to live with me.

• 4:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:58Mel Robbins?

  Where I want to start is, if we take everything to heart that you're about to teach to us about what ADHD is, what it isn't.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 5:08Mel Robbins?

  And more importantly, what to do if this is something that sounds like you or someone that you love, what's going to change about my life?

• 5:17Speaker 01

  If you're dealing with this chronic overwhelm, and it's been hard for you to place a name to what you've been experiencing, and you've been beating yourself up for years, I think this is going to give you the clarity to see that, number one, your brain isn't broken, this is just a different wiring. And number two, it's going to give you the language and the tools and the steps of where to go next, so that you can actually start navigating this condition.

• 5:44Mel Robbins?

  You said something that just struck me, because I think when you talk about the topic of ADHD, you immediately think about attention.

• 5:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:54Mel Robbins?

  And you think about focus, and maybe you think about, like, you know, the little kid who can't sit still.

• 6:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:02Mel Robbins?

  But you said overwhelm.

• 6:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:06Mel Robbins?

  And beating yourself up.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:08Mel Robbins?

  Could you speak a little bit to the emotional side of what we're going to talk about and what might change, based on what you're about to teach us?

• 6:18Speaker 01

  How much time you got? Because I feel like that is a huge overlooked part of ADHD. I think ADHD at its base, first of all, I hate the name ADHD, I think it's stupid.

• 6:29Mel Robbins?

  So, Dr. Hamdani, what is ADHD?

• 6:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. So ADHD is a neurodevelopmental condition, which stands for Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. I think ADHD at its base is a regulation issue. Yes, attention is part of it, difficulty regulating attention, but also difficulty regulating motivation, difficulty regulating energy, difficulty regulating emotion, that's a huge one, difficulty regulating sleep, difficulty regulating appetite, and anybody with ADHD has felt this. And if I'm speaking to you, these are things that you've probably experienced too, because it's not as simple as, well, I don't, you know, it's hard to stay on task today.

• 7:14Speaker 01

  It's, okay, I am so overwhelmed, and I have beaten myself up about this, and now I feel paralyzed with this guilt and shame and this overlay of this emotional component. And I think unless we really, really get on top of this and start looking at the emotional regulation part of ADHD, we're never going to fully encapsulate the full picture.

• 7:40Mel Robbins?

  I'm looking at our executive producer, Tracy, who I've worked with for 10 years, and I'm smiling at you, Tracy, because I canceled two days of taping last week, because I found myself in this state where the word I was using is, I am so overwhelmed right now.

• 8:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:04Mel Robbins?

  And I feel so flooded with emotion, I don't even feel like myself, I can't function right now. But I didn't think that was related to ADHD. It feels very affirming to hear that, well, actually, the wild swing of emotion, Mel, is a core part of how ADHD can present, because it's not just an issue of your ability to direct your attention, it's also your inability to process emotion in a way that is somewhat modulated, it goes in wild swings.

• 8:47Mel Robbins?

  And because if you truly are somebody that has this condition, you have always lived with wild swings.

• 8:57Speaker 01

  Always.

• 8:58Mel Robbins?

  I don't even know what it's like to regulate your emotions. Like, what does that even mean? In your world, Dr. Hamdani, what does "regulate" mean? Because if you do have ADHD, or you love somebody who does.

• 9:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:12Mel Robbins?

  We're having a completely different experience of life than somebody who goes through life without an ADHD brain and body.

• 9:18Speaker 01

  For sure, for sure. And I think when you, when you drill down and actually look at what regulation is, right? Like, for mood, right? If this is kind of normal baseline, and this is down in the depths of depression, and this is like, so happy and elevated, right? People generally, they have a normal ebb and flow that can happen situationally. With ADHD, it can feel like ups and downs.

• 9:50Mel Robbins?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 9:51Speaker 01

  And ups and downs, and it's usually coupled with anxiety and productivity issues, and all of this mashed together.

• 9:59Mel Robbins?

  Stopping and starting.

• 10:00Speaker 01

  And overwhelming.

• 10:01Mel Robbins?

  Yes, it's like, you feel like a hurricane.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  You feel like a hurricane.

• 10:05Mel Robbins?

  Like, I can start cleaning the closet, but then all of a sudden, I crash, and I've got clothes off hangers everywhere, and now I'm like, what did I do again?

• 10:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think a lot of people can argue, you know, well, sometimes people have emotional dysregulation or emotional swings because they're not getting enough done. I'll tell you, even in my own case, I can feel these kind of emotional swings, and I can feel extremely overwhelmed, and I might get to a spot where I'm getting all of the stuff done, like, all of the stuff I've delegated or I've gotten rid of, and it's off of my to-do list, and I still feel that overwhelm and that pit in my stomach and that, just like, I want to hide, I can't do anything right now, I just want to hide. That is emotional dysregulation, where it's like, I have the logical part of my brain that's like, you don't have anything to worry about, you're fine, things are going well,

• 10:59Speaker 01

  you're okay. But still, you're having these big ups and downs that you're dealing with at the same time. And I think that's so vital to talk about, because that's what gets misdiagnosed.

• 11:09Mel Robbins?

  Well, my greatest wish for this episode, other than the person listening,

• 11:16Mel Robbins?

  Really feeling empowered and seen and having your expertise to really help you take the next step, to get the support that you deserve and to better understand yourself. And my second bigger mission is that this sparks a change in the way that ADHD is defined. Because you can see that if society thinks ADHD is jitteriness and, you know, kind of the typical little boy like our son was bouncing around in a classroom that can't sit still and can't focus. And if that's all that we think it is, then doctors and

• 11:59Mel Robbins?

  pediatricians don't have the right definition for it. So of course, they're going to continue to go, well, only if you're jittery does it look like this. But anything in the realm of dealing with emotions must be something related to anxiety or depression. We're going to keep seeing this problem.

• 12:18Speaker 01

  Originally, the ADHD criteria was developed looking at hyper young boys. Our criteria is not even built to look at everyone else. It's not built to look at girls. It's not built to look at adults. I think part of the biggest flaw in this is that when you just moving on from like the hyper young boys, part of the issue is they're looking at these highly observable behaviors. Like, these are the kids that are disrupting classes, and these are the kids that can't stay in their seat.

• 12:48Mel Robbins?

  Right.

• 12:49Speaker 01

  But what about all those other presentations where the only people they're disrupting are themselves? And they're just getting passed from class to class to class to class. And then later, Mel, those are the people that are getting diagnosed with anxiety and depression. Because by the way, you're too old to have it now.

• 13:06Mel Robbins?

  That was me.

• 13:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:08Mel Robbins?

  I've also never heard anyone say that the way that you can present, there's the external disruption. But I hadn't ever heard anybody say, or you could be somebody that's internally disrupting yourself.

• 13:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:30Mel Robbins?

  With your thoughts, with your inability to stay on task, with your emotions. That's exactly how I felt all the time.

• 13:39Speaker 01

  And that's what I hear day in and day out. When I'm hearing from women over and over and over again, that my whole life, I have felt like something was off. There was something missing. And they have never put together those pieces. And then their child gets evaluated, and that's when the pieces kind of come together.

• 14:01Mel Robbins?

  I'd be curious to hear your thoughts about something. ADHD in kind of culture and society.

• 14:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:11Mel Robbins?

  Kind of feels like an eye roll. Because people have thrown the word around so much and live in a world where everybody has fragmented their attention by being online.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:25Mel Robbins?

  And at the same time, we have a neurological condition, which here in the United States is classified as a protected disability.

• 14:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 14:36Mel Robbins?

  We have all of this research around it. And so the term is kind of in popular culture and thrown around. You know what I mean? They'll about the eye roll. Oh, yeah, you got ADHD.

• 14:48Speaker 01

  It's not even that. They get those eye rolls from their doctors. I have heard from another physician. I've been doing some advocacy work online, talking about ADHD. And he made the comment, oh, so you can give Adderall to all the housewives who need it? And I was like, you're gross. I gotta get out of here. That is kind of what this feels like. It feels like that's just kind of the, like, medication is the easy way out. And like, everybody has it, and it's easy to qualify. You talk to anybody who is trying to get a good ADHD diagnosis, there are so many hoops in place. It is hard to

• 15:29Speaker 01

  get a diagnosis because people are turned away from, or discouraged, just openly discouraged.

• 15:35Mel Robbins?

  Or hostile. The thing that I experienced as a parent is, well, oh, you're just trying to get your kid extra time on a test so you can get him into a good school?

• 15:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:44Mel Robbins?

  I'm like, no, I'm trying to have him not struggle with depression and hate himself because he feels like a freak in school.

• 15:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:52Mel Robbins?

  Like, he's not a behavioral problem, you idiots. Like, this is a kid who's struggling.

• 15:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:56Mel Robbins?

  And why do I have to cry in front of a bunch of administrators to get him properly assessed? And so I also feel because of parents pushing their kids and trying to game the system, there's also a little bit of like, oh, do you really have ADHD? Or, you know, did your parents just push for this so that you could get the extra time and accommodations that way? And it's really hurt people and hurt our ability, I think, to get heard and to be diagnosed. And I think that's part of it.

• 16:26Speaker 01

  For sure. People ask me a lot, is this under diagnosed or over diagnosed, ADHD? And my answer to that is it's both, right? It's over diagnosed in some populations, and it's wildly under diagnosed in some. Like, there's some racial and socioeconomic populations where ADHD is so far down the list of what it could be, and it's just immediately, this is oppositional defiant disorder. This is a behavioral issue. This is some other kind of weird attachment thing. So these kids aren't getting help. And then there are other people where it's almost like they're entering like a pill mill situation where like, I know this one doctor, and he's really loose with Adderall. There's a wide range. And I

• 17:07Speaker 01

  think that truly, I think that if we had better criteria that properly nail down what we're looking at more comprehensively, then people wouldn't give these eye rolls. They wouldn't get like, because we would be treating what we're looking at.

• 17:28Mel Robbins?

  I agree with you.

• 17:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:30Mel Robbins?

  What exactly is happening in the ADHD brain?

• 17:33Speaker 01

  So, this is going to be extremely oversimplified, but I think it's important. The way that I describe it is there's a couple of areas of the brain that you really need to know about. And the first one is the frontal lobe. So directly under your forehead. Think of that as like, the very smartest part of your brain. Decision making, judgment, processing. That's your frontal lobe. Then you have this amygdala, which is this little almond shaped central area of the brain. And that's in charge of all of that emotional data. So with ADHD, you're dealing with a couple of things happening. Number one, you're dealing with a prefrontal cortex, smartest part of the brain. It's a little bit thinner and a little bit less responsive.

• 18:18Mel Robbins?

  Oh, really?

• 18:19Speaker 01

  Yes. And then you're dealing with an amygdala that's a little bit more hyperreactive. And then you're dealing with the connection between the two, which isn't as strong. So what you're gonna get is you feel things strongly, because that amygdala is like, huh, alarm chemicals, like, something is happening. And that prefrontal cortex is sometimes slow to filter and figure out exactly what to do with it.

• 18:46Mel Robbins?

  Hmm.

• 18:47Speaker 01

  The other thing that's happening in the brain alongside all of that is you have to talk about dopamine. And again, when you think about ADHD in general, that's very oversimplified. But dopamine is that neurochemical that's in charge of alertness and attention and emotional regulation and mood. So it's present and doing many different things at once. And a lot of people think that it's a lack of dopamine. You have low dopamine, and that's what's causing all this. It's really that the dopamine you have present isn't in the right place at the right time.

• 19:23Mel Robbins?

  Hmm.

• 19:24Speaker 01

  And so that can change with hormones. That can change with age. That can change with stress. That can just be an underlying deficit or dysregulation. So when you have those kind of factors all at once, you're dealing with just a tremendous amount of input that you're getting and a kind of weak filtering system. And so you're just, you're doing the best you can.

• 19:48Mel Robbins?

  When you talked about the prefrontal cortex and being kind of the thinking and like, the secretary of the brain, the processor, and then you talked about the amygdala, the little almond, it made a lot of sense to me where you're like, the input is overloaded, and the connection between those two things is weak.

• 20:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:06Mel Robbins?

  Which is why it is hard for somebody that has this neurological condition called ADHD to actually regulate the signals coming into here and all the sensory crap coming into here.

• 20:18Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 20:19Mel Robbins?

  So that makes perfect sense why it would be hard, if the connection's weak, for us to take all the input into the thinking part of the brain and process it.

• 20:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:29Mel Robbins?

  And at the same time, take all the input into the sensory part, the amygdala, and also appropriately regulate and process that too, and send signals to your body and your mind. Now, when you use the word regulation,

• 20:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:43Mel Robbins?

  let's just say the person that's listening has never really heard that term, or doesn't quite know what you mean.

• 20:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:50Mel Robbins?

  How do you want us to think about what the word regulation looks like? Because I'll tell you, as I'm hearing you talk.

• 20:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:57Mel Robbins?

  I immediately had a flashback to going to Baker Library at Dartmouth College. Got my books, fully intending on studying, Dr. Hamdani.

• 21:08Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 21:08Mel Robbins?

  I go to sit down. Now, all I can do is hear my stomach. Now, all I can do is hear the people in the corner over there. Now, I'm looking at the person and an hour or two goes by.

• 21:18Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 21:19Mel Robbins?

  And then I start to think, why can't I just do what everybody else is doing? What is wrong with me?

• 21:26Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 21:27Mel Robbins?

  And I have example after example after example. And the emotional side of this and the wreckage that it caused internally for me and the self hatred that it causes.

• 21:41Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 21:42Mel Robbins?

  When you finally get a diagnosis, there's almost like relief and grief at the same time.

• 21:46Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 21:47Mel Robbins?

  Because you start to understand how much unnecessary suffering you inflicted upon yourself because you didn't know what you were dealing with.

• 21:57Speaker 01

  Oh, and it's the same story you hear over and over again. I have had people who have come to me and they knew something was off. They have felt this guilt, this shame, and so they go to their doctor. The doctor is like, this is anxiety. You're anxious about something or you're, you know, depressed about how things are. They're started on medication. Medication doesn't work. Okay, go back to the doctor. This isn't working. Try another medication. Go back to the doctor. I've had people that have been on 10 different medications. They have never found relief or they found very partial relief. And then you actually evaluate them for ADHD. And you get to the bottom of like, oh, okay, you're having this emotional dysregulation

• 22:42Speaker 01

  that's happening. All right, let's treat the ADHD. And all of this gets significantly better, better than any other medication. The way that I describe it is for people who have diabetes and they start to lose their vision. Now, all of a sudden, they go to their doctor and they're like, huh, I'm losing my vision. And then this would be like if the doctor was like, all right, cool. Let's get you some glasses. No, the correct answer is let's work on the diabetes. Let's fix this underlying problem. And that underlying problem is that ADHD that's causing all of these things.

• 23:18Mel Robbins?

  You just described my life story. So, undiagnosed ADHD.

• 23:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:25Mel Robbins?

  Super hard on myself, studious, hardworking, and had no idea what was going on, but had lots of anxiety.

• 23:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:36Mel Robbins?

  And the anxiety started growing from middle school through high school, got worse and worse and worse. And I got put on Zoloft at the age of 22.

• 23:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:48Mel Robbins?

  I took Zoloft until my mid 40s because I was diagnosed with anxiety.

• 23:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:57Mel Robbins?

  And while the Zoloft, for me at least, kind of turned down the volume of the chronic like state of alarm that I lived in.

• 24:06Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 24:07Mel Robbins?

  It never really.

• 24:09Speaker 01

  Solved.

• 24:10Mel Robbins?

  Solved anything.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 24:12Mel Robbins?

  And it wasn't until our son Oakley was diagnosed with ADHD that I'm like, wait a minute. I went, I got a neuropsych evaluation. I got a clinical diagnosis. I stopped taking anxiety medication. I haven't had a panic attack since. I haven't had anxiety problems since because the entire time, we were treating the wrong thing.

• 24:33Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 24:34Mel Robbins?

  You know, this is one of those conversations where I keep forgetting that I'm supposed to ask you a question because I'm so dumbfounded by what you're sharing. Like, I feel on one hand, completely validated. And on the other hand, I am somewhat devastated by the fact that I'm just kind of learning about this whole world of the emotional dysregulation and the ways in which ADHD is really impacting our lives that most of us don't even know about. I am absolutely sending this to both of my daughters while we're on break. But don't go anywhere. There's so much more that we are going to dig into. And I really want you to stick around for the end

• 25:16Mel Robbins?

  because Dr. Hamdani is going to walk you through the specific four things that you need to do if you feel like this is resonating with you and how to start thinking about getting the support that you deserve. So you're going to want to hear that. Stay with me.

• 25:33Mel Robbins?

  You know, after hosting this podcast for almost four years, there's one topic that every single health expert agrees on. The importance of protein for your health, longevity, feeling your best. But here's the problem. Who the hell has time to cook all this chicken breast and beef and eggs? That's exactly why I became a co-founder of Pure Genius Protein. 23 grams of high quality protein in one shot. Done. Protein handled. Plus, it's sugar free, fat free, and has no artificial sweeteners or flavors. Use code MEL10 at puregeniusprotein.com for 10% off. 23 grams of protein in three seconds for under $3 a shot. Now, that's easy.

• 26:17Mel Robbins?

  Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins. And today, you and I are getting a comprehensive guide to ADHD with Dr. Sasha Hamdani. And so, Dr. Hamdani, I read in your work that there are three different types of ADHD?

• 26:30Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 26:30Mel Robbins?

  I didn't know that. What are the different types of ADHD?

• 26:33Speaker 01

  Okay, let me show you.

• 26:35Mel Robbins?

  Okay.

• 26:36Speaker 01

  First one, inattentive ADHD. And we touched on this briefly. Inattentive ADHD typically are the daydreamers. They tend to be forgetful, difficulty with organizing things, difficulty with remembering where you place something, difficulty with initiating tasks, difficulty with, you know, if there's a big task coming up in front of you, you tend to avoid that. Typically, this is how females assigned at birth present.

• 27:07Mel Robbins?

  Okay. Inattentive ADHD.

• 27:10Speaker 01

  Inattentive.

• 27:11Mel Robbins?

  Check.

• 27:13Speaker 01

  Hyperactive or impulsive ADHD. This is the second form of ADHD. And this is, well, one of the ways that males can present. And this is both physically and verbally impulsive. These are the kids that are having difficulty, kids and adults, difficulty staying in their seat, they're fidgeters, they are impulsive in speech in that they're interrupting. They are blurting out answers in conversation. They have difficulty participating in conversation. So this is, this is that hyperactive type. And then the third type is the combined type picture.

• 27:57Mel Robbins?

  Oh.

• 27:57Speaker 01

  And combined type picture is just a combination of both of those features. So you can have inattentive features and you can also have the hyperactivity component. Fun fact, this is what I am.

• 28:08Mel Robbins?

  How do you know? You know what I'm saying? Because it feels like it's a little general, like all of it. So you can kind of find situations for yourself. But how do you know what you are? And why is it important to understand which of the three you might be?

• 28:22Speaker 01

  So, I mean, you really are going to know once you get a good, solid evaluation.

• 28:28Mel Robbins?

  Okay.

• 28:28Speaker 01

  Because I think that part of getting a great evaluation, a very sound evaluation, is equal parts, yes, ruling in ADHD, but also ruling out everything else. I want to make sure that this isn't anxiety, that this isn't depression, that this isn't bipolar, that this isn't some thyroid issue or some medical issue underlying it. So there's, within the evaluation where you're talking about ADHD, you go from childhood and you kind of look at longitudinal patterns. Because again, with women specifically, it's hard because every month, we look different hormonally. So catching you at one spot in your cycle versus another spot, you might look different and you might present a little bit differently. So you're looking for longitudinal patterns.

• 29:13Mel Robbins?

  Can you break apart, how does the emotional side impact girls?

• 29:20Speaker 01

  So when you're looking at females, they typically fall into this pattern of more the inattentive presentation. So these are the daydreamers. They're forgetful. They have difficulty organizing things. They have difficulty with routines and motivation to get tasks done. And so these are the people that in general, can be a pleasure to have in class. They're getting passed along and they're doing well. But internally, they're working so hard, so hard. You know what? That doesn't get better. You get through your elementary school years. You get to puberty. Then all of a sudden, you get smoked by hormones. Now hormones immediately change things.

• 30:04Speaker 01

  Now, instead of physicians, and again, not the fault of physicians, right? This is a fault of criteria. But now, instead of physicians looking at this child and saying, whoa, we missed something. You're having like all these mood swings and is school is hard for you and friendships are hard for you and all of that. They're saying, you're a teenager. These are hormones. Get used to it. Like, this is what you hear as like a 13 year old girl. And then they have to get through it. So you just kind of bear it. And then you get into college and your demands get harder. You start getting into more serious relationships. And then maybe you get into a situation where you're trying to start your own family.

• 30:48Speaker 01

  Okay, now you're getting hit with another wave of hormones. And actually, during pregnancy, estrogen levels are a little bit higher. Dopamine levels are a little bit higher, so you might do okay. But then postpartum comes and rocks your world. And so you get this drop in estrogen, drop in dopamine. So you can't regulate the way you used to. And so now, you go to a doctor again, you're like, things are bad. And they're like, it's hormones. Like, let's put you on an antidepressant because you're depressed. This is postpartum depression. And so it gets missed again. Then you get through all of that. And you get through your reproductive years. And now you're in perimenopause and things are chaotic because your estrogen drops again. And you're like, something is wrong.

• 31:33Speaker 01

  Something is wrong. And now it's, well, you're hormonal. Like, give it 10 years, we'll see you later.

• 31:40Mel Robbins?

  Brain fog.

• 31:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:40Mel Robbins?

  There you go. This happens during perimenopause. You've described my whole life.

• 31:45Speaker 01

  I know.

• 31:46Mel Robbins?

  I had postpartum depression, crashed. I started having severe brain fog and other symptoms during perimenopause. So you get hormones, which help, but didn't help the brain fog.

• 31:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:57Mel Robbins?

  And again, like, it was just diagnosed with anxiety, living with anxiety, struggling, struggling, struggling, pushing through.

• 32:07Mel Robbins?

  Postpartum depression, oh my God, the sobbing as you're breastfeeding. Like, just, I don't feel like myself. Oh my, just, and then perimenopause, then the creams, then the, and then all of a sudden, ADHD diagnosis, and it's like, wait, what? And it felt, as soon as I was not only diagnosed, but found the medication that worked for me, it's like, all of a sudden, after 47 years, I felt like I was in my body.

• 32:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. And that gets missed, and they get missed over and over and over again, because our criteria doesn't catch that.

• 32:41Mel Robbins?

  Is it common in women that if you have undiagnosed ADHD, that it can cause anxiety and depression?

• 32:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 32:49Mel Robbins?

  Why?

• 32:50Speaker 01

  A lot of times, like, when you look at ADHD, there can be anxiety and depression. That is a separate thing that travels along with it. That, that can happen. But for a lot of people, because, again, circling back to that emotional regulation part of ADHD that everyone seems to miss, and that is so critically important to getting a comprehensive picture of ADHD. Number one, if you've gone through your whole life, and you've thought that there's something wrong with you, and you're less than, and you're broken, that's gonna make you anxious. If you can't do the things that you know perfectly well that you are capable of, that's gonna make you anxious. And you know what? It's probably gonna make you pretty depressed, too.

• 33:34Speaker 01

  If you're going through these huge moments of this energy dysregulation, where you are getting tons done, and then it's like you've hit your max, and then you-

• 33:44Mel Robbins?

  And then you crash.

• 33:45Speaker 01

  You have this huge crash, and then you feel like, okay, I have literally nothing left in my tank. That looks like depression. But these are all emotional dysregulation issues that are happening. And so that's why you see that with ADHD.

• 34:00Mel Robbins?

  Is there a connection between undiagnosed ADHD and eating disorders?

• 34:04Speaker 01

  Yes. There is. But I think that, again, that stems from dysregulation, and it stems from a lot of ADHD, you're not able to be mindful about certain things. So sometimes, it's not actually, you know, when people think about eating disorders, they think about, you know, on one extreme, that you're not eating enough, and on the other extreme, you're eating too much. Like, for the extreme where you're not eating enough, a lot of times with ADHD, sometimes it can be like, you don't really have hunger cues. And, and this is outside of the medication, it's just your body isn't communicating, telling you, you're hungry. And I know personally, if I get invested in a task that I'm truly interested in, I can go eight hours, and I'm not eating, I'm not drinking, I'm not getting up.

• 34:49Mel Robbins?

  Yep.

• 34:50Speaker 01

  On the flip side, with like binge eating disorder and things like that, there can be a time where you're trying to stimulate your own dopamine, you're trying to like, get things going, without even knowing that's what you're doing. And you're grabbing for things, and you're eating, and you, you don't even know, and you can look down, and you're like, okay, that was a whole sleeve of Girl Scout cookies. Like, so there's like, you can be on either end. So yes, there are linkages with disordered eating on both ends.

• 35:17Mel Robbins?

  And what's interesting is, again, this kind of distinction that you're seeing, Dr. Hamdani, of the external presentation versus the internal turmoil.

• 35:28Speaker 01

  How I describe it is, it's like, the outside of your house is on fire versus the inside of your house is on fire. Like, it just feels like, both are on fire. Both are literally in flames. The way we look at it now is, we only care if we can see the flames. Flames are going on inside the house.

• 35:49Mel Robbins?

  What, what would you say to somebody who has received this episode from someone that cares about them?

• 35:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:57Mel Robbins?

  Because the person who cares about them sees these patterns, and has sent this episode, you know, in a text saying, hey, you know, I'd love for you to listen to this, because this sounds a little bit like what you might be dealing with. What do you want the person who's hit play, and is starting to really process what you're saying for the first time?

• 36:21Speaker 01

  I think, if you are listening to this episode, I don't want this episode to push you one way or the other. This is not meant to convince you that you have ADHD. This is not meant to push you in one direction. It's meant to ask you questions about your own internal environment, so that you can start digging deeper and figuring out, is there something here, or is there something that needs to be addressed? And what I want to reiterate about all of this is that I think good compassionate care and diagnosis stems from a very nonjudgmental and shame-free place.

• 37:00Speaker 01

  And so, just being able to look at this episode, and, and whatever other research you do, in a very compassionate and self-compassionate way, I think you'll be able to receive information and actually start to put together patterns about your own behavior a little bit better. And that might be ADHD, it might not be.

• 37:18Mel Robbins?

  What do you think the biggest misconception is about ADHD that keeps people, especially women, from getting help?

• 37:26Speaker 01

  That you have to treat it with medication. I don't think you have to. There are some people that are on medication, and it is life-changing for them. And so I'm never going to, and even when I was talking about antidepressants before, same thing, that can be life-changing for some people. So I'm never going to go back on that, because medication is a tool and can be wonderful. But also, being able to actually commit time and figure out therapeutic tools that might work, it is also so critically important, and some people don't need medication. They, they get through with doing cognitive restructuring and work through therapy that can be extremely beneficial.

• 38:07Mel Robbins?

  I so appreciate your answer. What I find reassuring about what you're saying is, there are other ways you can support yourself, and we're gonna get into that very specifically about what to do, and how to get a diagnosis, and what are the things that you can do, and what are the medications?

• 38:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:25Mel Robbins?

  You know, I remember when I got my diagnosis, it was both an extraordinary relief-

• 38:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:33Mel Robbins?

  And I had a lot of grief and anger.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:35Mel Robbins?

  Is that common to feel a sense of grief, like, when you finally understand what's been there the whole time?

• 38:45Speaker 01

  Yes. When I evaluate people, I actually tell them about that. Like, I don't know what this evaluation is gonna show, or if it's ADHD, if it's not ADHD, but depending on what we go through, this is just a deeper exploration of what's going on in your body. You might feel like, this is an answer, this is what I've been looking for, and I might feel like I wasted so much time, and I'm grieving that loss of time and potential and all of that stuff. And to them, I say, that is normal. Like, you are allowed to feel those things. That's perfectly normal, and there should be space for that, because that is a very valid expression of what's happening.

• 39:28Speaker 01

  But I also tell them that, in that time, it wasn't wasted, because what you were doing, the hard work, you were building routines, you were building structures, you were building workarounds, that eventually, as you have the right tools and scaffolding, those are gonna come in handy for you. Those are gonna make this process a little bit easier, because I've also seen, on the flip side of things, when people are started on medication, and they don't have that scaffolding in place, and then when they're off medication, it's like they're floundering again. So I think this multifactorial approach of doing lifestyle and behavioral modification with medication, if that's appropriate, can be extremely helpful.

• 40:10Mel Robbins?

  It was life-changing for me.

• 40:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:12Mel Robbins?

  I'd love to talk about the connection between being high achieving-

• 40:16Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 40:17Mel Robbins?

  And how that, especially in women, can hide ADHD, especially from ourselves.

• 40:25Speaker 01

  Yes. So I'm gonna introduce you to the concept of masking. Have you heard of that?

• 40:32Mel Robbins?

  Uh, not in the context of ADHD.

• 40:35Speaker 01

  So masking is when you have, it, it can be conscious or unconscious, camouflaging of your symptoms. And this is something that women do exceptionally well, because I think from a young age, we're sensitized to do this, because we don't wanna be in trouble, we don't want to stick out of a crowd, we don't wanna bring a lot of attention to us. I'll give you an example with me. Like, I was a combined type presentation, so I was very hyperactive, like, I couldn't stay in my seat, a big fidgeter. But I learned, I can't get up all the time in class, I'm getting in trouble constantly. So I would squish my thighs down on the seat, or I'd grab the bottom of my chair, and like,

• 41:18Speaker 01

  try to suction cut myself to the chair, because I'm like, I, I need to physically restrain myself from getting out. Now, from a productivity and a masking perspective, you also see things like perfectionism, I don't wanna get in trouble. You see things like overcompensating, like, I'm gonna stay at work extra long, and I'm gonna over-prepare, and I'm gonna get things ready, because I don't wanna get in trouble. I know I'm gonna miss something, so I'm gonna prevent that from happening. You see things like, within relationships, and knowing that there's like, that emotional regulation, you see a lot of women just kind of accepting stuff that they might not think is appropriate for any of their peers, but they're like, I was probably in the wrong,

• 42:03Speaker 01

  I was a little bit too emotional, I chased them away. And so, in order to protect that emotional sensitivity, they don't wanna get into conflict, they don't wanna fight, they don't wanna do things like that. So, I mean, there's lots of different ways that are directly impacting and, and harmful to someone who is continuing this mask for a long time. Eventually, that mask gets too heavy to hold.

• 42:30Mel Robbins?

  Dr. Hamdani, thank you for sharing this with us. In a little bit, we're gonna get to the steps of what you should do next, but we still have a little bit more to unpack. And so I gotta take a quick break, so we can hear a word from our sponsors. And I wanna give you a chance to just digest this for a second. Don't go anywhere, because I promised, a little later in the show, we are gonna be getting to the step-by-step, there are four of them, that you need to do. This is what Dr. Hamdani's recommendation is. If this is resonating about you, or with the person you love, four steps to getting the exact support you need when we return. Stay with us.

• 43:17Mel Robbins?

  Welcome back to your friend Mel Robbins. Today, we are here with psychiatrist Dr. Sasha Hamdani, and she is giving you a comprehensive guide for free to ADHD that you can use as a resource for yourself and the people that you love. You can send it to your doctor, you can send it to your friends. So, Dr. Hamdani, let's keep going. Is ADHD a superpower?

• 43:38Speaker 01

  No. Everyone asks me that. I am so jealous of the people who say that it is. I'm jealous of the people who say that it is, and the reason for that is I feel like there are some things that ADHD has brought me that I wouldn't have otherwise, like being on social media, going to the White House, getting book deals. Like, that is because of my ADHD. That's because of that hyper-focus. That's because I was interested in something and it bled into this area. But there's also things on a day-to-day scale that I feel so limited by, and I feel like the analogy that I give is it's like a superpower that I have very little agency over, because

• 44:23Speaker 01

  it's like you can fly now, and that's your superpower, but you can't choose when or where. So, you're just gonna blast off into space at any given time. So, it's, I feel like I love, I love the concept of a positive reframe, and I think there is some beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful things about ADHD. I really do. But I think there's also some things that are really difficult to deal with, and I think when people continuously focus on that superpower trope, for me, it diminishes the struggle. And so, I feel like the best way to approach ADHD is just realistically. They're good, just like anything else. There's good stuff, there's bad stuff, and it's how you deal with it.

• 45:08Mel Robbins?

  I appreciate you saying that, because I always thought that it sounded like toxic positivity.

• 45:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:13Mel Robbins?

  By somebody who doesn't have ADHD. And when you also consider, Dr. Hamdani, what you're teaching us, which is for decades, medical professionals, society, the DSM, has not included the full scope of ADHD, especially the emotional dysregulation. There is no superpower to feeling constantly overwhelmed in your life. And yes, there are some small benefits, and I love the analogy that you said, it's like having a superpower you can't be in control of.

• 45:54Mel Robbins?

  Like, I would love to be able to throw fire from my palms, but I don't want it going off at the wrong time.

• 46:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:01Mel Robbins?

  And there's a lot of anxiety that comes with going through life, thinking you can't trust yourself.

• 46:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:09Mel Robbins?

  You can't trust yourself to follow through, you can't trust yourself to be on time, you can't trust yourself to remember, you can't trust yourself to not screw this up yet again. And so, I really appreciate you saying that. Is there something surprising that you've discovered in your practice that most people with ADHD struggle with and may not even realize it?

• 46:35Speaker 01

  Yes. So, we've, we've talked a lot about the emotional regulation side of things.

• 46:40Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 46:41Speaker 01

  There is a neurological phenomenon that you see in almost 100% of people with ADHD. They experience some component of rejection-sensitive dysphoria.

• 46:49Mel Robbins?

  Rejection-sensitive dysphoria. What does that even mean? That's a big thing.

• 46:54Speaker 01

  It's a big thing. It's mouthful. Rejection-sensitive dysphoria is this incredibly robust emotional response, sometimes physical, but mostly emotional response, to real or perceived rejection, or criticism, or this fear of disappointing someone. It is this internal emotional response flooding of neurochemicals that happens.

• 47:20Mel Robbins?

  How do you define this, what this is?

• 47:23Speaker 01

  It is a neurological phenomenon. When you look at emotional sensitivity.

• 47:27Mel Robbins?

  Okay.

• 47:28Speaker 01

  Right? And you have...

• 47:30Mel Robbins?

  What you have if you are somebody struggling with ADHD.

• 47:33Speaker 01

  I'm saying just part of the human condition, right? Emotional sensitivity in general. You have, if you're saying, this is kind of normal emotional sensitivity, you have emotions down, emotions up, situationally appropriate, you're right in the middle. You have lack of emotional sensitivity, where people really aren't responding in the way that they should be. They don't feel big highs, they don't feel big lows, maybe not situationally appropriate. Then you have people that are highly emotionally sensitive, and they are the people who feel things quickly, and deeply, and for a long time. And I would put rejection-sensitive dysphoria as like the, the ending point of that, as most emotionally sensitive, because when they feel something, even if it's not actually

• 48:17Speaker 01

  happening, if they perceive that there is a risk that I'm disappointing you, or that there's some rejection, or the person doesn't like me, their world caves in. They start turning inwards, and it becomes this flooding of neurochemicals and alarm chemicals that are happening, that literally paralyze other areas of the brain.

• 48:37Mel Robbins?

  Wow. Holy cow. You have a brand-new bestselling book, Too Sensitive. I love the title.

• 48:46Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 48:48Mel Robbins?

  Why is this rejection-sensitive dysphoria important to dedicate an entire book to this?

• 48:57Speaker 01

  Because no one talks about it. So, we don't have the tools and the language to treat it appropriately.

• 49:04Mel Robbins?

  Can you show us what this may look like in day-to-day life?

• 49:06Speaker 01

  Yes, I can. I can show you with text messages from you.

• 49:13Mel Robbins?

  Oh, God.

• 49:14Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 49:15Mel Robbins?

  Oh, my, these are, okay, so the team has screenshot my phone. Okay, go ahead. Or actually screenshot their phone and something that I've said.

• 49:22Speaker 01

  Okay. So, if we're looking at just this screenshot with you responding to something that I'm saying, and all it says is, "No worries." Okay? For me, what is happening in my brain is, is she mad at me? Is she unhappy with me? Does she want me on the podcast still? I am spinning, because in my brain, I've attached a level of uncertainty, because I'm afraid that there is rejection and criticism underlying this. And that, to me, is a direct reflection of my own self-worth. So, I am gonna spin on this, I'm gonna ask other people about it, I'm gonna show my phone to other people and be like, "What do you think about this message?"

• 50:04Speaker 01

  And I am going to waste a tremendous amount of emotional energy on this. Now, the things that I could do with this is that I could chew on it for hours and hours, which is what I love doing, and that's what I usually do. Alternatively, I could do things like, I could overcompensate. I could send you a text message back and be like, "Okay, I'm just making sure that we're cool." Or, "Okay, I, I wanna reiterate our plans." And you're like, "I am busy." Like, you know, so there's, there's a lot of emotional hand-holding I would need in that moment. I might do things like, I get that text message, "I've already decided that you're mad at me, I'm done now."

• 50:49Speaker 01

  And that, that has been my trajectory in my twenties with relationships. I would read into neutral interactions, I would read them as threatening in some capacity, and I would be like, "I don't need this. I'm studying, I don't need this." And I would end the relationship, because you're not gonna push me away, I'm gonna leave first. You see different patterns, and it is truly, when you take a neurologically emotionally sensitive person, which is something you see a lot of in ADHD, and you put them in these everyday kind of situations, because of that emotional dysregulation, they have a hard time filtering that information, because that emotional part of their brain is popping

• 51:33Speaker 01

  off before that logical part. So, they are just running with this flooding of emotional chemicals. And if you think about that, like, this is the stuff that keeps me up. This is the stuff I worry about, this is the stuff I, I reality-test with people, and they get so annoyed, because I'm constantly going and asking them, like, "Is this normal? Is this not?" There, there's so much, I, I don't wanna say life loss, but that's what it feels like. I'm just spending so much time doing that.

• 51:59Mel Robbins?

  I have spent a lifetime doing this, so if, and yet, at the same time, I'm just doing the best I can to manage all the inbound anyway. If you relate, and you read messages like this...

• 52:13Mel Robbins?

  What do you do?

• 52:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. And for the record, it's not just messages. Like, it can be things like, for me, I'm so sensitive to tone, to shifts in tone. I'm sensitive to body language. I can pick up an energy in a room before I go in.

• 52:30Mel Robbins?

  Same.

• 52:30Speaker 01

  You know, it's like, so this is one of those things about being emotionally sensitive. And then simultaneously being emotionally dysregulated is that those things hit hard.

• 52:40Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 52:41Speaker 01

  So recognizing it is huge. That's a big thing that I think is really important. The other thing that we see is important are things that work in the moment to reduce activation. Some easy ones are things like movement. And it doesn't have to be like, do heavy cardio or lift weights. Do some sort of movement that's going to increase that oxygenated glucose to get to that frontal lobe.

• 53:07Mel Robbins?

  Okay, so I see the text message. Now I'm like, huh.

• 53:09Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 53:10Mel Robbins?

  I do squats?

• 53:11Speaker 01

  You can. You can. Because think about what you're doing. Like, once you understand neurologically what's happening, you're dealing with this overactive amygdala and this underperforming frontal lobe.

• 53:22Mel Robbins?

  Oh, I see. Oh, my God, I just got it. So in that moment, the input from just a simple text message is like,

• 53:30Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 53:31Mel Robbins?

  And that floods your brain.

• 53:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 53:33Mel Robbins?

  And your thinker, your prefrontal cortex

• 53:37Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 53:38Mel Robbins?

  is like, I don't know what to do. I can't come online. Something's going on, like, ha, ha, ha. And so neurologically, even though a text message seems stupid and inconsequential.

• 53:50Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 53:50Mel Robbins?

  Neurologically, your brain is screwed.

• 53:53Speaker 01

  You are responding to a threat like you have seen a murderer. When you are actually assessing threat, like whether it's a social threat, whether it's a physical threat, your brain doesn't know the difference in that moment. Your body is responding in the same way. So you're having this flooding of neurochemicals. And so what you need to do now is understanding, okay, my emotional center is overwhelmed, my frontal lobe is not working as well as it should. And then you look at that situation and whether it's like, okay, I can utilize movement and that's going to get some oxygenated glucose to my frontal lobe where it's supposed to be. And hopefully we can get that thinking back on board. The other thing you could do, delay the reaction. And this is something that it took me so long. I understand neurologically, I am flooded right now.

• 54:39Speaker 01

  I know that I want to respond to this K. I know that in 10 to 15 minutes, I'm going to feel different. And so in 10 to 15 minutes, I will reassess this. And I will even do things like I'll set an alarm.

• 54:51Mel Robbins?

  Hmm.

• 54:52Speaker 01

  I'll set an alarm, 10 to 15 minutes, I'll come back and gosh darn it, I do feel different. But I think what's important is that, like with this book, Too Sensitive, I don't want to make you less sensitive. I want to help you be more in control.

• 55:11Mel Robbins?

  I love that. I don't want to make you less sensitive. I want to help you be more in control.

• 55:18Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 55:19Mel Robbins?

  That is the perfect statement for us to then talk about how you feel more in control.

• 55:26Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 55:27Mel Robbins?

  Um, because I'm sure as you've been listening or watching and you're really taking in everything that Dr. Hamdani is teaching you and me today, you are thinking of like 13 people in your life.

• 55:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:41Mel Robbins?

  Or you are thinking, wow, this sounds like me.

• 55:48Mel Robbins?

  So what are the steps you should take? If you think you or someone that you love may be dealing with ADHD that's not diagnosed?

• 55:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. Let's go through this because I think a visual will help. So I'm going to pull up a visual.

• 56:05Mel Robbins?

  Great.

• 56:07Speaker 01

  So if you think you have ADHD, let's start with the first step. So first step, track your symptoms. It's so important to, number one, know your baseline. Number two, it's also needed to understand how your treatment is progressing. If that's kind of what it, whether that's therapy or whether that's medication, are those holes being fixed?

• 56:28Mel Robbins?

  Yes. So what symptoms am I tracking?

• 56:30Speaker 01

  Okay. So if you do these things, you get a gold star from me. I want you to track initiation of tasks, distractibility during the task, like are you getting pulled out of the task? Completion of tasks. So I would lump that all into one, but I think it's important to make those distinctions. Like where is a problem? Is it starting? Is it staying in the task? Is it actually getting it done? That's important. Number two, I think that is vitally important is sleep, sleep. Track what you're doing with sleep. I want to know how long you slept. I want to know if your sleep was fragmented. Are you waking up in the middle of the night? Is it hard to fall asleep? So give me as much data as you can. This can be notes on your phone. Like this doesn't need to be something super formal.

• 57:14Mel Robbins?

  Okay.

• 57:15Speaker 01

  And the third thing that I want you to track that I think is really important is mood. I actually don't give a lot of guidance on this because it's almost an interesting diagnostic fact to see how you track mood. However, you want to track your mood, just give me some sort of mood data point.

• 57:30Mel Robbins?

  Okay.

• 57:30Speaker 01

  Because I want to see, number one, how that pattern progresses over time. And then especially for women, if you cross correlate that with your hormonal cycle, I want to see that too.

• 57:40Mel Robbins?

  Got it.

• 57:41Speaker 01

  If there's a strong hormonal component, we need to look at that as well.

• 57:43Mel Robbins?

  Got it. So if I were to do this for a couple of weeks, you'd get some good data because then you could go, and has it been like this in the past?

• 57:50Speaker 01

  Ideally, ideally, I don't want a couple of weeks. I want like enough for two hormonal cycles.

• 57:56Mel Robbins?

  Oh, so you want two months?

• 57:57Speaker 01

  I want two months.

• 57:58Mel Robbins?

  Okay, great. You can have two months. It's going to take me that long to get an appointment with you anyway, so. Okay, track your symptoms for two months and we're doing kind of productivity, initiation, distractibility, completion, sleep patterns.

• 58:10Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 58:11Mel Robbins?

  And mood.

• 58:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 58:12Mel Robbins?

  Boom.

• 58:13Speaker 01

  Boom. Okay, step two, talk with a qualified professional about an ADHD assessment.

• 58:20Mel Robbins?

  What is a qualified professional? Who do I go to?

• 58:23Speaker 01

  I know. So here's the deal. There are, especially now, there are lots of different roads to get to where you need to get to, right? Um, let's start from my favorite. I'm biased because I'm a psychiatrist. I feel like going to a psychiatrist sometimes gives you the best evaluation. And the only reason I'm saying that is because you have the benefit of going to a medical physician. So they understand medical background. You have the benefit of going to a psychiatrist. So they've done the psychiatry residency where they've done the therapy side of things and they've done the medication side of things. So it can be if that person is appropriate for an ADHD medication after this evaluation and has ADHD.

• 59:07Speaker 01

  This could be a one stop shop kind of thing.

• 59:10Mel Robbins?

  But there is a desert and deficit

• 59:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:15Mel Robbins?

  of access

• 59:15Speaker 01

  access is a problem.

• 59:16Mel Robbins?

  in many communities, many countries for many people. And, you know, sometimes we're like, do I go to my primary care? Do I go to a pediatrician? Do I go to a nurse practitioner?

• 59:27Speaker 01

  Absolutely. We're only as good as what our system allows because access to care is a huge issue. And then there's so many barriers to care, whether that's, there's literally not enough psychiatrists, whether that's a cost issue, whether that's a, you know, they aren't taking your insurance or, you know, there's so many different things or that they're saturated, they're, they can't see patients. You could go to your primary care doctor or your pediatrician or, and that's a beautiful place to start. That's a beautiful place to start. Generally, there's a lower barrier to access with that. A lot of times they'll do an assessment that involves getting information from collateral resources. So talking to, you know, like for kids, they'll talk to parents, they'll talk to teachers.

• 1:00:12Speaker 01

  They'll get scales to look at ADHD behaviors. So depending on what is available to you, that's another road. Then you can do the therapist road. There's many different layers. You could do a neuropsychologist who could do neuropsych testing where you do a comprehensive evaluation of everything that's going on. Is this ADHD? Is this depression? Is this anxiety? Is this bipolar? So they will do a full, it's super long.

• 1:00:40Mel Robbins?

  And expensive.

• 1:00:41Speaker 01

  And expensive.

• 1:00:42Mel Robbins?

  That's what I did. That's what we did with two of our kids, like.

• 1:00:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:45Mel Robbins?

  And it was expensive. Like I would not have been able to do it had all of this started happening and I was aware of what was happening, like even just a couple of years before that.

• 1:00:55Speaker 01

  So here's the deal. There are other resources. So besides the therapist route, besides the neuropsychologist route, there are other layers of therapists that could potentially do the evaluation.

• 1:01:09Speaker 01

  Some of them, like with nurse practitioners, not a therapist, a nurse practitioner is something different. Some of them can prescribe, some of them cannot. With therapists, generally, they cannot prescribe.

• 1:01:20Mel Robbins?

  Right.

• 1:01:20Speaker 01

  But again, we're not talking about

• 1:01:22Mel Robbins?

  Well, we just gotta get the

• 1:01:23Speaker 01

  Evaluation.

• 1:01:24Mel Robbins?

  assessment done first, so you know what you're dealing with.

• 1:01:27Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 1:01:28Mel Robbins?

  I do find that this is a big roadblock.

• 1:01:32Speaker 01

  Here's what I will tell you about any provider that you see. To save you time, to save you heartache, one of the most important things that I tell anybody who's starting this process is look up the provider ahead of time. Look at their reviews, look at what they treat, look at all these things, because it's unbelievable how strongly some people feel about ADHD. Some people are completely unwilling to even address it. And so it gets to be really difficult when you're going into an evaluation and it's hard to even get that evaluation from them. And so I think that the people who really enjoy treating

• 1:02:14Speaker 01

  ADHD, looking at ADHD, evaluating ADHD, they put it pretty prominently on their information. So I think that's important. You can look at reviews, you can get word of mouth.

• 1:02:24Mel Robbins?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:02:24Speaker 01

  And you honestly, you deserve that. You deserve a good assessment that is personalized for you.

• 1:02:31Mel Robbins?

  Right. You're worth that.

• 1:02:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:33Mel Robbins?

  Step three.

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  Step three, discuss options.

• 1:02:37Mel Robbins?

  And there's lots of options on that board. Medication, therapy, coaching, tools, systems. Let's talk about the options.

• 1:02:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. A lot of people, they immediately think, if I have ADHD, I'm going to be put on Adderall.

• 1:02:50Mel Robbins?

  Hmm.

• 1:02:50Speaker 01

  And that's what's going to happen. No. So let's go through some of the different options. Number one, if you're looking at ADHD management, there is medication and there's non-medication. So let's start with the medication side of things. Medication, broken up into two big classes. There are stimulants and there are non-stimulants. Stimulants, the stuff you've heard about, Adderall, Ritalin, Vivance, those are all in that stimulant class of medications. They work in two different ways. One is to help with alertness and to fight off those sleeping excuse. And two is to point towards reward. There was a beautiful Washington University study that was done on this, just like Christmas

• 1:03:33Speaker 01

  of 2025. So it's relatively recent. But stimulants, the issue with them, number one, they're controlled substances. So that's gets a little weird. But number two, you can't stimulate a person 24 hours a day. It's like, you gotta eat, you gotta sleep, you gotta do normal human functioning things. So even the long acting stimulants, really, you're getting about six to eight hours of coverage, if that. Usually it's four to six hours. Short acting, two to four hours. So you're getting these like tall peaks of coverage where it's, okay, I feel like I am completely regulated at this point, but it crashes down pretty quickly. You move next into the non-stimulant class of medications. So stimulants are one side.

• 1:04:15Speaker 01

  Non-stimulants. Non-stimulants, those are generally agents that work on a couple of different things. There are some that are antidepressants. So they help with anxiety and depression at the same time. There's some that are blood pressure medications. There are all these different types of medications that have multiple usages. And the thing that I generally like about non-stimulants is that a lot of times it's 24 hour acting, which people don't know about. Because a lot of times they're like, oh, if I have ADHD, I'm going to have to be started on this medication, which I'm going to hate. Non-stimulants, you're not going to have this two hours of coverage. You're going to get a 24 hour.

• 1:04:56Mel Robbins?

  What are the names of non-stimulants?

• 1:04:58Speaker 01

  So guampazine is one, Strattera is one. One you might have heard of is Wellbutrin. That's a non-stimulant for ADHD. So there's lots of different agents that you could potentially think about adding that give you full coverage, that possibly cover more than just the attention component, that don't crash you down in two hours and instead just kind of raise that baseline. So they're, they're beautiful agents. It really depends on what you need.

• 1:05:28Mel Robbins?

  If the person who's listening is thinking, I am really resistant to the medication because I'm concerned about the side effects.

• 1:05:37Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:05:38Mel Robbins?

  If they were a patient in your practice, like what do you say to a patient in your practice when somebody raises that concern?

• 1:05:44Speaker 01

  Then don't do medication. So if you, if I explain exactly how those medications work and what the intended effect and what the side effects are and how to get on them, also how to get off of them. If I'm giving you all that information, you're like, no, thank you. Like, I don't want that. That is a perfectly reasonable choice. We go based on what you feel ready for. It's not my job to push medication on you. It's not my job to get you there sooner. Like, do the tools. The tools are going to help you anyway.

• 1:06:15Mel Robbins?

  So what are the top tools if you're dealing with ADHD?

• 1:06:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:21Mel Robbins?

  And that diagnosis that are the most effective place to start?

• 1:06:26Speaker 01

  It can sometimes be really nebulous and hard to figure out exactly where to start, what lever to pull. That's when I think a therapist can come in very, very, very handy because they are able to take that data from your patterns, synthesize it, figure out where the holes are, and then figure out how to optimize and approach that. And I'll tell you from my own experience, I really started to drill down and work on the therapy side of things. And what are the skills? What are the tools? How can I explore my own behavior so I can figure out what to fix? And that, I think, was life changing.

• 1:07:02Mel Robbins?

  What is the fourth step if you think you have ADHD?

• 1:07:06Speaker 01

  Okay, step four, use trusted resources while you wait. This is important because I think a lot of getting assessed, it can take a while. It can take a long time. And if it happens, right? I mean, there's some people that don't have access to it. And so I feel like in that interim, learning and exploring your own internal environment, and also relying on resources that you know are reputable, that are going to help you, that aren't just some random person on the internet that's talking. Like, you want to get information from things like journal articles or news, like, and again, some news.

• 1:07:49Speaker 01

  So newspapers that cite journal articles.

• 1:07:52Mel Robbins?

  Well, I actually, this is one of the things I appreciate about you, that you put a lot of content online.

• 1:07:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:58Mel Robbins?

  And so if you're having trouble gaining access and you are in the waiting game, following somebody like you.

• 1:08:09Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:08:10Mel Robbins?

  A medical doctor who's talking about this, who lives with this, that's a way for you to learn more and to understand that this is not a deficiency in you. This is something you are just going to learn more about. And there are tools that you can use while you're waiting. And you can learn more and become smarter about this while you're figuring it out. And that's the whole point. And that's why I actually wanted you here, because you do put out a lot of content. For somebody that's listening and is thinking, well, this is definitely me, but I'm now 40, 56, it's just too late. What would you say?

• 1:08:52Speaker 01

  If I had 10 minutes left of my life, I would want to know if I had ADHD.

• 1:08:59Mel Robbins?

  Why?

• 1:09:00Speaker 01

  Because I want to understand my brain. I want, I don't think it's ever too late to understand your brain. I just want to know. For me, going through that ADHD experience, I know firsthand how it feels to have that guilt and that shame compounded at every single thing. And for me to analyze every turn I've made and to think about it and where did I go wrong and what was happening and how could I have done it better, to know that I did do my best. This was a neurological phenomenon that was underlying all of this that was making it difficult. Like, you still did a great job. You got through this. You built on this. I want other people to feel that.

• 1:09:46Mel Robbins?

  I do too.

• 1:09:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:47Mel Robbins?

  Dr. Hamdani, what are your parting words?

• 1:09:52Speaker 01

  It's never too late to understand your brain.

• 1:09:59Mel Robbins?

  I am so grateful that you're here.

• 1:10:02Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me.

• 1:10:04Mel Robbins?

  I cannot believe how much I learned today, that I did not know. I feel more confident. I feel like I understand myself so much better. This episode is an extraordinary gift that you just gave us because we got to sit down in a private session, one-on-one, with a psychiatrist as renowned and as passionate and committed as you are. And I appreciate the accessible and realistic way that you talked about what to do next and what to do while you wait and while you figure this out. And so just from the bottom of my heart,

• 1:10:49Mel Robbins?

  and from people all around the world that you will never meet, whose lives will be forever changed because of what you shared with us today, thank you.

• 1:10:58Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me.

• 1:11:00Mel Robbins?

  And thank you. Thank you for making the time to learn about ADHD. I hope you share this with people that you care about. This is a conversation that is for all of us. And these tools that we discussed today are things you can start to implement in your life or the lives of people that you love immediately. And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you, as your friend, that I love you and I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to create a better life. And I cannot wait to see your comments. I can't wait to see this shared around the world. So thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm going to welcome you in to the very next episode, the moment you hit play. I'll see you there.

• 1:11:44Speaker 01

  No, so my teeth aren't beige.

• 1:11:46Mel Robbins?

  Coffee. I wouldn't mind another one of those Little Wolf situations. We're definitely being real. Do you know I was born in Kansas City, Missouri?

• 1:11:53Speaker 01

  Get out of here.

• 1:11:54Mel Robbins?

  I should say Missouri. Yeah.

• 1:11:55Speaker 01

  Started med school when I was 18.

• 1:11:57Mel Robbins?

  So you must've been really dumb, is what you're telling me.

• 1:11:59Speaker 01

  So dumb.

• 1:12:00Mel Robbins?

  I'm catching up to my coffee. So we're going to get some coffee. This is going to be an ADHD episode because both you and I are like boom, boom, boom, boom. Okay, already this is so fascinating.

• 1:12:09Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm so happy.

• 1:12:10Mel Robbins?

  Oh, my God. Do you want to try this? You have to try this. This is insane.

• 1:12:14Speaker 01

  I do have to try it. Okay. What is that?

• 1:12:17Mel Robbins?

  Is that not the most delicious?

• 1:12:20Speaker 01

  What is it?

• 1:12:20Speaker 02

  It's called the Little, it's like the signature drink of this local coffee shop.

• 1:12:25Mel Robbins?

  Called the Little Wolf, shout out. It's a whole milk latte, but it's got this like orange saffron powder on the top and a little bit of brown sugar sweetener. It's like liquid, I don't know what.

• 1:12:38Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 1:12:40Mel Robbins?

  Is that not insane?

• 1:12:41Speaker 01

  It's, that might be the best thing I've ever drank in my life.

• 1:12:47Mel Robbins?

  It literally like will blast us right through this episode and then right into the bathroom.

• 1:12:54Mel Robbins?

  Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.