Stop Being Available: How to Set Better Boundaries and Take Your Power Back

Are you the person everyone depends on? Do you remember the appointments, make the plans, solve the problems, keep track of what everyone needs, and step in whenever something falls through the cracks? If that sounds familiar, this conversation is for you. In this deeply relatable and practical conversation, Mel sits down for another episode with world-renowned motivational speaker Dr. Eric Thomas, also known as “ET, The Hip Hop Preacher,” to talk about what happens when you become the person who holds everything together. Dr. Thomas is a pastor, educator, New York Times bestselling author, and one of the most influential motivational speakers in the world. In this conversation, he shares something extremely personal: what he learned from realizing how much his wife, Dede, had been carrying in their marriage and family while he was focused on building his career. That realization changed the way he thought about strength, responsibility, trust, and it changed their marriage. Dr. Thomas will tell you, “You’ve done everything for everybody else and you’ve not done the things that you need to do for yourself.” He knows that you’re used to getting things done, and how hard it has become to put anything down. He will show you how to get that time back to focus on yourself. In this episode, you’ll learn: -How to recognize when you’ve become the person who does everything for everyone -Why “I’ll just do it myself” can become a pattern that leaves you exhausted -Why capable people often have the hardest time letting other people help -What happens to your family when you become the person everyone waits on -How to tell the difference between helping someone and constantly rescuing them -How to stop grabbing responsibility back the second someone struggles -What to do when you think, “If I don’t do it, it won’t get done” -How to start sharing responsibility without feeling like everything is going to fall apart -Why being needed can become part of your identity without you realizing it -How to stop measuring your value by how much you do for other people -What the people who love the “strong one” need to understand Dr. Thomas says, “In opening myself up to be cared for, I found care.” Today you are going to learn how to take the care you have been giving to everyone and turn it back on yourself, so you can focus on your dreams, your life and get your energy back. If you are tired of being the one who always remembers, fixes, handles, and holds everything together, this conversation will help you understand why you keep doing it and how to finally start putting some of that weight down. For more resources related to today’s episode, click here for the podcast episode page. If you liked the episode, check out this one next: It’s Not Too Late: How to Transform Your Life at Any Moment Mel also wants to tell you: Try the 23g protein shot I drink every single morning Join 2 million readers loving my weekly newsletter - full of tips, tools, and inspiration The Let Them Theory: read the book everyone’s talking about Watch the episodes on YouTube Connect with me on Instagram Follow the show’s Instagram for clips, behind the scenes, and more Find some daily positivity on my TikTok Want zero ads? Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes ad-free Disclaimer

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

• 0:09Speaker 00

  I am willing to bet that you're the kind of person that everybody depends on. And that's why I'm so glad you're listening to this episode. And one of the things that really struck me about the conversation you're about to listen to is how many women, how many moms, how many grandmothers give up their dreams in order to support everybody else's. If you feel like everything falls to you and you've lost yourself along the way, today is a life-changing reminder that you matter too. Your dreams matter too. And one of those loving things you can do for your family and everyone around you is to love yourself enough to stop caring everybody else's stuff, put it down and start picking up the dreams that you left behind. You've done a great job.

• 0:52Speaker 00

  So how about you make the rest of your life the best of your life? The extraordinary, the inspiring. Dr. Eric Thomas is here in our Boston studios. And today, we're going to inspire you and teach you how to start putting your dreams first too.

• 1:09Speaker 00

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• 2:31Speaker 00

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• 2:55Speaker 00

  Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I'm thrilled that you hit play on this because it tells me something about you. It tells me that you're doing everything for everyone else and you've lost yourself along the way. And I cannot think of a more perfect person to introduce you to than Dr. Eric Thomas. Dr. Thomas is a pastor, an educator, a New York Times bestselling author. He is a friend of mine. He's one of the most motivational and inspiring people that I know. He went from being homeless to sleeping in abandoned buildings to earning his PhD in education from Michigan State University to becoming one of the most trusted voices in motivation and purpose, followed by millions of people around the world.

• 3:36Speaker 00

  This is a conversation that will fundamentally change how you see the rest of your life. So please help me welcome Dr. Eric Thomas to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  Thank you, thank you, thank you.

• 3:47Speaker 00

  You're so good, we're doing a double.

• 3:49Speaker 01

  That's amazing.

• 3:51Speaker 00

  Well, our first conversation, we talked about taking control of your life and personal responsibility. And this conversation, I'm so excited for because it's really about how we take on responsibilities that are not ours to own and how women in particular carry so much burden that weighs us down and how we can start to become a priority in our own lives again. You know, as a preacher, as an educator, as a world-renowned coach, I would love to have you speak to the person that's with us right now, who is doing everything for everyone else.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  It's not healthy for you to feel like you have to do everything for everybody. By the end of this episode, I want you to get to a place where you get help, right? I want you to know, there's a season. There's a time and season for everything. There is a time to be helpful. There is a time to be a blessing, but there's also a time to receive help and to be taken care of.

• 4:51Speaker 00

  You know, Dr. Thomas, when did you realize that this was happening in your family and this message to women in particular about putting down the weight that you're carrying for everybody else? It became really personal.

• 5:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, it became personal to me when I looked at my career and how DeeDee's support elevated me from homelessness to being like PhD, New York Times bestseller, one of the best speakers in the world. I looked at my son graduating from college, working for a Hall of Famer like Coach Izzo. I looked at my daughter graduating from Michigan State, getting her master's degree and now being a COO of a company. And I said, everybody's wish list has been taken care of, but one person. And that's the person that's been helping all of us. That person hasn't gotten the help that they need to make all their dreams and goals become a reality.

• 5:45Speaker 01

  As a matter of fact, there's one person in our family that is not as healthy as we are and that's the person that's been helping everybody else. And so it became clear to me that one person was checking the list and checking it twice to make sure that everybody's life was nice. But that person that was checking on us, that person wasn't making themselves a priority. And that person wasn't demanding that the people that she blessed were taking care of her to the extent that she was taking care of us. And that's when I knew something has to change. The focus has to change, the attention has to change, the energy has to change.

• 6:26Speaker 01

  Like you guys owe it to DeeDee to be the blessing to her that she was to you.

• 6:32Speaker 00

  And DeeDee, of course, is your wife.

• 6:33Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 6:34Speaker 00

  And what I also know about you and your story is that as a pastor, as a son, as a grandson, you have seen this in women all over the place. And so it's even deeper than what you experienced in your marriage.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Because I've watched the women in my life make everybody a priority but themselves. And I've seen them do it at the cost of their dreams and their goals, starting with my mom. My mom was brilliant. And my mom decided not to go to college. My mom decided to raise me because that's what she thought she needed to do for me. My mom decided to get a career. My mom was brilliant, right? And so I felt like from a very young age, she made a sacrifice that I'm going to take care of my son. And she didn't see that maybe she could have taken care of herself and her son. I've watched my wife do the exact same thing. I've watched her go to school, not just for herself, but to take care of her family.

• 7:36Speaker 01

  I've watched her economically grow, but use a lot of that money to be a blessing to others. I don't know if I've watched her do all the phenomenal things she did for her. I've watched her go, well, if the kids need this, I'm going to sacrifice. I don't know if she ever went away on the weekend for herself, but I watched her go to all the kids' games. I watched her go all the parent-teacher conferences. I watched her wash their clothes. I've watched her take care of everybody but herself, to the extent that she took care of everybody. I'd never really seen her do it for herself like that. I've watched my mom, who's now a caregiver for my father, who has multiple sclerosis. I'm watching my mom make sure that he's going to therapy when he doesn't want to go to

• 8:21Speaker 01

  therapy, that she's making sure he's motivated and making sure that he has everything he needs. And I'm watching her not happy sometimes because in the midst of making sure my dad is phenomenal, which is great, but she's not taking care of herself. I'm telling you from somebody who I wouldn't be where I am without my wife, without my mother, without my grandmother, without my aunts. No disrespect to my uncles, but it was my aunts that raised me. It was my grandmother. It was women that raised me. And so I'm not saying, don't be the phenomenal caretaker you are, but where are you on that list? Where are you on that list?

• 9:01Speaker 00

  And this is what I would say, as I was listening to you, is that even making a list of all of the things that you're doing and all of the weight that you carry and the load energetically and physically and mentally and spiritually that you hold, simply making the list actually is you seeing that there is value in the list. And until you make the list, you can't ask yourself, am I the best person for this job? Do I even want this job?

• 9:32Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 9:33Speaker 00

  Can I train somebody else to this job?

• 9:35Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 9:35Speaker 00

  Can we use a little money and have somebody else do this job? And you get into these modes where you're still doing things the way you did 20 years ago, wondering why you feel taken advantage of. And you haven't stopped to say, wait a minute, what are all the things that I'm doing around here? What are the things that weigh me down? What are the things that make me feel alone in carrying this? And making just the list, and I'm going to read you some of the things that are on the list from the team that's producing this episode. Here's what's weighing me down. I keep the list of all the things we have to do around the house. I'm the one that manages the kids' schedule. I make sure the bills are paid. I make sure the home is safe.

• 10:18Speaker 00

  I make sure that my demeanor is calm and understanding so my fiance can heal.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:24Speaker 00

  You know, I put my bad day on hold so that you can vent to me about yours. I make the grocery list. I plan and cook the dinners. I'm the one that makes sure the dogs are fed. I remember the family members' birthdays, both mine and your family's. I make sure pictures are taken on big holidays, and I would add, and I'm never in them, is why I'm always complaining that I don't ever have a family photo. I feel obligated to be the fixer, the handy person. I help my spouse write all important messages. Basically, I'm his ghostwriter. I make sure the fridge is stocked when your ass gets home from college. Ooh, talking about the adult kids. I hear that one. I'm obligated to be the glass half-full person so my partner can vent, but I bring it back to the positive.

• 11:09Speaker 00

  I do the jobs no one wants to. Christmas happens because of me. I say yes to helping everyone. I quote, "Make it work."

• 11:20Speaker 00

  In fact, you write about the impact of carrying the weight and what it had on your wife. I would love to have you talk a little bit about how while you're chasing your dream, DeeDee is also carrying a weight.

• 11:36Speaker 01

  I remember coming to this realization when I finally grew up because for so long I was so immature. And so financially, I'm taking money and I'm buying stuff and DeeDee's like, hey, the electricity got cut off. That's not possible. How did that happen? I was like, what do you mean by that? She's like, I gave you the money to take to the electric company. Like, what happened? And I'm like, oh, about that. I went to the mall first. And so not only did DeeDee graduate first, not only did DeeDee pass her NCLEX first and become a registered nurse, not only did she get a job first, right? She's got the health benefits first. I couldn't even get on our first home because my credit was so bad. And so then my credit is great. I'm like, how is my credit great? She literally puts me on her Discover card without telling me. She's put me on a Discover

• 12:20Speaker 01

  card. So every time she's paying and handling her business, it's looking like I'm... And so she's just been pulling all this time. So let's fast forward, right? That's the first part of you're not financially mature, you're making mistakes, right? DeeDee's mature. The part that really blew my mind is now I'm traveling the world, getting an opportunity to make my dreams and goals become a reality. In some months, I might make some money, in some months, I might not make money. And I got this GD program that I'm doing for free and spending hours there. And I never knew she was carrying the load, meaning I'm gonna make sure that the bills are paid. I'm gonna make sure we have health benefits. And I believe in your dreams and I believe in your goals, but I believe in them in a way that is different than you. I believe in it as I gotta get up and I gotta

• 13:05Speaker 01

  go handle my business. You're chasing something. I'm building a foundation. And I never knew how that was weighing on her. Fast forward now, DeeDee's traveling the world with me and DeeDee's like, just in case you didn't know, I only wanted to be a nurse. I just wanted to retire after 30 years. I never had any dreams or goals or... Like, I wanted to help you make your dreams. I never knew that I was going to be your partner. I'm the person that has to make sure that everything is done right so that we don't lose the house that you bought. You got the dream, you attract it, I have to maintain it. So I've got three kids. I said, I thought you had two. She said, I have three. I have Jalen, Jada, and Eric, right? I have three kids.

• 13:46Speaker 00

  You're the big kid.

• 13:47Speaker 01

  I got the big kid. And so Mel, the greatest mistake I made was not chasing my dream, but I dragged DeeDee into it. There was never any buy-in. We never sat down. I never asked her, how far do you want to go? How much do you want to do? You know what? I do believe when DeeDee was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, for me, it was like, how did this happen? Like, how did we get here? And what stress is DeeDee bearing because of you? And so there was a point when we were in the hospital and they were talking about stress, that I had to say to myself, what part of stress can you own? After I got the diagnosis, we came home, I'm like, you're not gonna do this, you're not gonna do this, you're not gonna do this, you're not gonna do that. And DeeDee was like, yo, you're doing a phenomenal job of protecting me from everybody, but you also

• 14:32Speaker 01

  have to protect me from you. And that's the one person that I don't see that got... Like, I don't see you on the list. And so you have to protect me as well. You have to protect me from what you bring in. You have to protect me from the new roles and responsibilities that you take on. You have to protect me from the traveling. Like, Mel, you can only imagine the traveling schedule. DeeDee was like, I can't keep doing these red eyes with multiple sclerosis. And guess what? I'm saying to every woman out there that's strong, DeeDee was strong. And DeeDee was like, yo, if you need me to do it, and this is gonna help our family, I got you. I got your back. DeeDee was willing to do whatever it took for the dream we had when we were 16 years old on the porch on cruise in Detroit. Like, DeeDee was like, this is what we dreamed of. So whatever I need to do, and I don't want

• 15:17Speaker 01

  to feel like I'm holding us back. And so I'm saying to the woman that's out there, just give yourself permission. Tell yourself who you are, what you're capable of, what you've done for the family, but speak up. And I had to tell DeeDee, you got a voice in this, DeeDee. Now, I haven't done a good job of listening to your voice. I haven't done a great job of giving you space for your voice, but from this day forward, let's communicate. And we just got to a place where we started to communicate. And DeeDee started to say, like, I want to communicate. Like, I want to talk every day. Like, I want to go shopping. I want you not to just physically be in the room with me, but I want you to pay attention. Like, I want you to be at the fitting room when I come out. I want to

• 15:59Speaker 01

  see, I want you to see if you really like this or not. Like, I want to go out to eat and I don't want, you know, you on the phone or taking phone calls. Like, I want your undivided attention. And we're together as a family. I just want us to be together as a family. And we talked, Mel, every morning, 7:30 to 8:30, we just talked. And I just listened. And that's hard. I'm more of a talker than I am a listener, but I'm listening to DeeDee.

• 16:21Speaker 00

  But you also are a pastor.

• 16:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:23Speaker 00

  And you also are a coach. And this is something that you see with a lot of women. You see it in relationships. And so, you know, I know a lot of women say, but if I stop, who's gonna take care of them? If I stop, they're gonna be disappointed. If I don't go, who's gonna handle that?

• 16:42Speaker 01

  You need to understand that you are more than a role. You're more than a role. And I know you found so much joy in being a mother. You found so much joy in being a wife. You found so much joy in being a partner. I get it. And that role is important, but you are bigger than a role. You're more than a role. So before you became a mother, you were somebody. Before you became a wife, you were somebody. That's why they chose you. That's why you were a mother. That's why you brought children into this world because of who you are, not because of what you do. And I can't say that enough. You are bigger than your role. If you weren't a wife, you would still be special. If you

• 17:25Speaker 01

  weren't a partner in a business, you'd still be special. If you weren't a speaker or a counselor or a coach, you are why they love you, not what you do. They don't love you for what you do. They love you because of who you are. And I can't express that enough. And I also want to say this. You have a voice. You really do have a voice. You as the human, you're gifted. You as the human, you're unique. You as the human, you are important and you matter and your voice matters. And I'm telling you, you have more power than you know. Your voice is stronger than what you believe it is. And I'm saying, speak.

• 18:04Speaker 00

  For the woman who is though, because I think a lot of women feel that if I suddenly stop doing everything for everyone, then they're gonna be disappointed in me.

• 18:17Speaker 01

  They are.

• 18:18Speaker 00

  Tell her that. Tell her.

• 18:19Speaker 01

  No, I'm gonna be very disappointed when DeeDee stops doing some of the things that she does. But guess what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna be empowered. My son's gonna be empowered. My daughter's gonna be empowered. And we're gonna learn. So DeeDee was always the person that took care of all the bills. Guess what happened when she stopped? I had to start doing them and I didn't die. And so I'm saying, it's okay to stop idolizing the role. It's okay to pull back. I promise you, we can step up. I promise you, we can step in. I promise you, I'm doing way more for DeeDee now than I've ever done for DeeDee before because DeeDee spoke up and said, I can't keep doing this anymore. So don't be afraid that if you step up, that somebody's gonna leave. Or don't be afraid that if you don't

• 19:03Speaker 01

  step up, it's not gonna be as good as it is if you do it. So I'm just saying, for all the women that are listening to me today, don't idolize the role anymore. You don't have to do the role to be special. You are special outside of the role. And I guarantee you, if you give your family an opportunity to love on you, if you give your family an opportunity to support you, I'm telling you, you're gonna be shocked if you get out the way. You'll be shocked when they step in and step up, but they cannot take the role when you're still dominating the role. They cannot take the role when you're still present in the role. So get out of the role and give them an opportunity to take the role. And I guarantee you, you're gonna be grateful for the way you spoil them or the way you bless them, because they're gonna be a bigger blessing to you than you ever were to them.

• 19:49Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh. I love that, Dr. Thomas. And I know that so many people, because let's be honest, it's not just women. So many people want to give up this role, taking care of everyone and then everything. But then you stop and ask yourself the question, well, how? How? We're gonna answer that when we come back from this short break. Dr. Thomas and I are gonna talk about how you do this. So stay with us.

• 20:19Speaker 00

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• 21:01Speaker 00

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• 21:45Speaker 00

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• 22:29Speaker 00

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• 23:00Speaker 01

  Don't idolize the role anymore. You don't have to do the role to be special. You are special outside of the role.

• 23:08Speaker 00

  That is the one and only Dr. Eric Thomas pleading with you. He's literally pleading with you. You take on too much, you do everything for everyone. You have all the stress, you have no time for yourself. Oh, I felt that, Dr. Thomas. And I know you felt that too. So if somebody came to you and they were seeking your counsel because they're incredibly stressed out by the demands of their job and the demands of their marriage and the demands of raising kids and the demands of aging parents, the stress of finances, how would you coach them, Dr. Thomas,

• 23:48Speaker 00

  to identify what are the things that they're carrying too much of? And what are the places where you're just in a season of life that sucks and you have to shoulder it?

• 23:59Speaker 01

  Well, this was my mom just recently and it was tough. Because this was my mom about my grandmother, her mother. And I told my mom, you can't give a life for a life. Like, Ma, you can't give your life for Grandma's life. You're not a doctor, you're not a nurse. Like Grandma needs to be in a facility that is trained to help her. You can't bring her to the house, Ma. Or you can't let Grandma stay in her home and every time she picks up the phone and call you, you gotta stop what you're doing. Ma, you can't give a life for a life. And that was tough because my grandmother raised me. But I had to say to my mom, Mom, you have a capacity and you have to know what your capacity is. You need to do an audit, Ma. You need to do an inventory.

• 24:42Speaker 01

  Yes, you retire, but just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Now, my sister is also a registered nurse. Ma, we can ask Janiko to do it. She can help because she is a registered nurse. So I would just say, first of all, you have to get out of your feelings and you gotta get into principles.

• 24:58Speaker 00

  Explain this. Because I do think like the first thing that came up for me as I was listening to that is, oh, my God, I would feel so guilty.

• 25:03Speaker 01

  Feel, right? Which is not a healthy way to make decisions. It's principle. Principle of the matter is, are you the best person for the job? Listen to me. If you're not training somebody else to do it, that's a problem. If you're that good at it and you can't train somebody else to do it and you're gonna have to do it for the rest of your life, that's why it's overwhelming. So you have to understand that everything you do well, you have to teach somebody because as a mother, you can't be a mother for the rest of your life the same way you were when they were toddlers or when they were in high school. At some point, you need to reprieve. At some point, they need to grow up and it needs to be reciprocity. You cannot continue to give.

• 25:45Speaker 01

  Or I should say this, it's not healthy to pour from an empty cup. You can try, but it's not. That cup should continue to be filled by who? The people you bless. So if you're helping people and it's not helping, then guess what you're doing? You're hurting. So the same people you pour into every day, at some point, they gotta grow up and be able to pour back into you.

• 26:05Speaker 00

  Teach me about that. What do you mean feeling versus principle?

• 26:08Speaker 01

  So by feeling, I mean you're making an emotional decision, right? You're making the decision again, you know, I feel.

• 26:15Speaker 00

  When it comes to family and kids, though, that's all I do, Eric.

• 26:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, but.

• 26:19Speaker 00

  I feel guilty.

• 26:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:20Speaker 00

  I feel like you're irritating me, so I'm just gonna pay that bill that you keep calling about because you're upset, you know what I mean? Like, I just feel like that's all I'm driven by as a mom.

• 26:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that's, and that's great, but.

• 26:30Speaker 00

  It's not great.

• 26:30Speaker 01

  But the outcomes are not great from that.

• 26:33Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 26:33Speaker 01

  Your feelings are great, you feel a certain way. Excuses make you feel good. Feelings make you feel good, but the outcomes aren't great.

• 26:41Speaker 00

  How do I teach myself to have principles?

• 26:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, philosophy. So for some people, it's Christianity. You know, for some people, you know, it's Buddhist. Like, whatever it is for each individual. For some people, there's a mentor you have that you follow that mentor. But at some point, you have to have philosophies that you live by, right? But a principle is Grandma needs healthcare. She does not need feelings care. If you actually feel good about Grandma, we gotta get her to help. And so a lot of times in a relationship, you know, you want people to feel good. But the thing I loved about DeeDee is DeeDee was like, what's the goal? What's the North Star? The North Star is for us one day to get married, is to have a family. So you being on the block is not gonna help us.

• 27:26Speaker 00

  Okay, you just said it right there. That so many of us that are carrying the emotional load in our marriages, in our families, we don't have a goal for how we want it to be.

• 27:39Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 27:39Speaker 00

  Which is why you are going to always be run over by the guilt or you're gonna be run over by the exhaustion because you do not have a North Star or a vision for what you want your relationship with your adult kids to feel like. You do not have a goal for what you want your marriage to be like in this chapter. And not having that vision for how it could be is what keeps you carrying too much because you are constantly in the wheel of feelings. It makes perfect sense.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, or you have a vision, but you're compromising the vision to make that other person feel good. And the one thing DeeDee always says is, it's we, not you. It's we. So, so you have a vision for your career, but we have to have a vision for our career. And I don't know how long I thought it was mine, but DeeDee's like, yo, this is not your dream or goal, this is ours. It affects me, it affects the children. You as a pastor, that affects our life. So we have to talk about what does it look like for us? How is it healthy for DeeDee? How is it healthy for Eric? The children are affected by this big image you have. Like, you're ET, the hip hop preacher. You went to Michigan State, they went to Michigan State.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  It doesn't just affect you. And so we gotta sit down and we gotta talk and we gotta have a strategy, not for Eric Thomas. We have to have a strategy for our marriage. DeeDee was like, yes, you have a goal, I have a goal, but we have a goal. And we have to protect it because Eric, sometimes you love people so much and you're so spontaneous. Oh, man, Mel, I don't know how much of my wife's time I gave away earlier in my career. How much of my kids' time I gave away because somebody called and they needed something? Or there was some opportunity, like, I don't know how much of their time. So I'm saying there, those of you who don't have a plan, you guys need to get a plan, not your career, but for your marriage.

• 29:37Speaker 00

  Dr. Thomas, that makes perfect sense. And now, you know what I want to focus on? How can you coach women and me to make yourself a priority? Because now that we're clear that we don't want to keep going and carrying the load, we want to put it down, let's talk about the tactics. How?

• 29:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think the first thing, you know, which is gonna be difficult, Mel, because when you've put maybe your spouse or your children first for so long, you can unconsciously, like, not even realize that you're not making yourself a priority. And you don't even know where to start, right? So I would just say, here's the starting point. Go back to before it was all these priorities. Before there was debt, before there was a house note, before there were all these responsibilities. Who were you? What did you want to be? What did you want to do? Like, let's just go back. What made you happy? Like, what brought you a sense of peace, right, and serenity? Like, what brought you joy? I just want to go back.

• 30:37Speaker 01

  And then, once we go back, let's ask ourselves, as we look at this list, what can I still do? What is there time to still do? What joy can I still have? What peace can I still have? Like, what part of my life can I own? Because you've lost a lot of your life making sure somebody else's life was taken care of. So let's get back to your life. Let's get back to your dreams, your goals, the things you want to accomplish. Let's get back to that. And then, starting on Monday, let's just ask ourselves, what's one thing we can do to take back some of our time and some of our energy and some of our capacity to others? And how can we give it to ourselves? Like, maybe you don't go to every game. Maybe you don't go to every game. Maybe you don't help with all the homework.

• 31:21Speaker 01

  Maybe you don't do all the chores. Maybe you don't have all the responsibilities. And if you could just give yourself 10 minutes a day, 20 minutes a day in the tub. Just 10, 15 minutes a day. Lock the door. Nobody comes in. I just need peace. I just need to be by myself. If you can get up 30 minutes early and go walk in your neighborhood, right? No phone, right? Whatever. I'm just saying, I just want you to, step one, get back to you. Get back to spending time with you. Get back to dreaming the dreamer you. Get back to the things you wanted to accomplish or the things that brought you joy. Just get back to you for a minute. And every day do a little bit more you, right? And then I'd say after, after that, talk to your family and tell your family, I love y'all. I'm not going nowhere. I want to continue to support you guys.

• 32:06Speaker 01

  I want to continue to make you guys a priority. I want to continue to help elevate you and develop you and take you to another level. But mom needs some mom time. Mom needs some development time. Like mom doesn't want to pour, pour, pour, where mom doesn't have anything left. But mom wants to enjoy her life. Mom wants to live her life. Mom wants to die on E and get my bucket list done. So what's your bucket list? And let's spend some time every day marking it off. And for those that love you, let them hear this part. Bless mom like mom blessed you, right? Pour into mom like mom poured in. Love on mom like mom loved on you. Sacrifice like mom sacrificed for you. Like give mom some of her time back.

• 32:51Speaker 01

  Give her some of her energy and capacity back. Give her some of her love and joy back. Everything she gave to you, it's time for you to give it back. But do me a huge favor. Just think about a time when it was just you and what life meant when it was just you. And let's get back to loving on ourselves is what I would say.

• 33:11Speaker 00

  Dr. Thomas, brilliant, necessary. And it's making me think of this incredible research that backs up everything that you just said, Dr. Thomas, and I'm going to share that. But we're going to take a quick break. I also want to give you a chance to share this incredible conversation with everyone in your life who's carrying too much and they need to be reminded to get back to loving on yourself, to remembering who you were before you picked up all of this stress and burden and care and for everybody else. Don't go anywhere. We have more with the amazing Dr. Thomas when we return.

• 33:51Speaker 00

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• 34:36Speaker 00

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• 35:21Speaker 00

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• 36:06Speaker 00

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• 36:54Speaker 01

  Think about a time when it was just you and what life meant when it was just you. And let's get back to loving on ourselves is what I would say. If you could just give yourself 10 minutes a day, 20 minutes a day in the tub. Just 10, 15 minutes a day. Lock the door. Nobody comes in. I just need peace. I just need to be by myself. If you can get up 30 minutes early and go walk in your neighborhood, right? No phone, right? Whatever. I'm just saying, I just want you to, step one, get back to you.

• 37:24Speaker 00

  I just love listening to you, Dr. Thomas. Welcome back. Holy cow. We're talking about how to get back to your dreams with the extraordinary Dr. Eric Thomas. And I just wanted to jump right back in and talk about this really kind of counterintuitive research that backs up exactly what Dr. Thomas is urging you to do, giving yourself time for you. Researcher and New York Times bestselling author Laura Vanderkam has this incredible research that shows if you're very overwhelmed and you feel like you have no time, which becomes the biggest excuse for why a lot of women in particular don't make time for themselves. The research shows that if you add in something that you love doing, that's meaningful to

• 38:07Speaker 00

  you, you feel as though you have more time because you are elbowing out room in the week for something that really brings you back to life, whether it's a painting class or a book club or, you know, taking a dance class or could be anything, could be singing in the church choir again, anything that's important to you that makes you feel like you again. And so not only is that instruction to really think back before this role that you have, before this chapter, who were you? What did you love? And then if you were to insert that now, you would start to immediately feel parts of yourself and who you are that you have long forgotten in this chapter.

• 38:51Speaker 00

  And so what your family can do is kick your mom out of the house on Wednesday. Just kick her out. Like maybe what needs to happen is maybe the ball needs to be dropped.

• 39:02Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 39:03Speaker 00

  Because I think most people don't realize that the ball needs to be carried because somebody else has been doing such a great job that they've gotten very used to it getting handled. And to your point, it's painful to hear, but until you drop the ball and you say, somebody else has got to pick it up, I don't know that anybody else is going to magically do it. You know, what do you do? I'd love to have you-

• 39:30Speaker 01

  But I would say this, though. This is, you will never know if you don't drop it. Like you'll never know if they can pick it up or not. And some of the stuff doesn't need to get done because if it gets done, you don't. Your dreams are put on the back burner. Like your goals are put on, your health is put on the back burner.

• 39:47Speaker 00

  Well, you know what's interesting about this is that I do think this idea, we start to gaslight ourselves, well, if I don't do it, nobody's going to do it.

• 39:53Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 39:53Speaker 00

  And here's the thing I would say to challenge yourself. And so the laundry's not going to get done. So they come home and there's no groceries in the fridge.

• 40:03Speaker 01

  They'll figure it out.

• 40:04Speaker 00

  Like maybe what needs to happen is maybe the ball needs to be dropped.

• 40:09Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 40:10Speaker 00

  Because I think most people don't realize that the ball needs to be carried because somebody else has been doing such a great job that they've gotten very used to it getting handled. And to your point, it's painful to hear.

• 40:27Speaker 00

  But until you drop the ball and you say, somebody else has got to pick it up. I don't know that anybody else is going to magically do it.

• 40:35Speaker 01

  But I would say this, though, this is, you will never know if you don't drop it. Like, you'll never know if they can pick it up or not. And so, funny story, as you were saying that, all the kids at church love, they're like, man, Eric, your clothes smell so good. What do you use? Everything Didi did when she stopped washing, I, I learned how to do the unstoppable. I learned how to put the fabric softener in first. I learned how to do the liquid bleach, the color. I learned how to do everything. But I couldn't do it when Didi was doing it and saying it was overwhelming her. But once she stopped doing it, guess what happened? I still needed my clothes done. So I would go to Didi and say, hey, Didi, I just need, can you give me two sessions? You do the first one, I'll watch you, and then I'll try, and then we'll do the second session.

• 41:18Speaker 01

  Everybody talks about how good my clothes smell, right? The neighbors are like, yo, your clothes. But Didi had to stop. Didi had to stop cooking, and guess what? My son is the best cook in the house now, because his mom stopped cooking. As a matter of fact, his sister don't know how to cook, because he cooks so well for everybody. So I'm saying to Didi's point, if I don't do it, it won't get done. And if you don't do it, nobody's gonna die. And if it's that important to them, they're gonna have to figure it out the way you figured it out. And they're gonna have to take ownership of it. And once they take ownership of it, guess what? Mom gets to chill because you've worked. Is motherhood or women being strong the only profession that you don't retire from? It's like, you retire as a basketball player, you retire as a boxer, you retire as a...

• 42:02Speaker 01

  At what point does mom get to say, I'm retiring from being that mom I used to be, or that wife I used to be? So I'm just gonna say, look, you gotta be the first one to say, it stops, and you gotta bring the family together and say, hey, guys, we gotta put a plan together. Super mom was great for 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, but it's time for super mom to retire, and it's time for super mom to get spoiled and get loved on.

• 42:26Speaker 00

  There's a couple of things that you just said that I want to make sure I highlight. One is that you can tell you're caring too much when you start resenting the people you love, and you start feeling unappreciated. I also love this idea of make a list of all the things you hate doing, and that you resent doing, and that you are telling yourself, well, if I don't do it, nobody's gonna do it. And the third thing is, you're not retiring until you tell people you're retiring. And one thing that's made a huge difference in our family is having these conversations, and identifying the things that everybody hates, because most people hate doing the same things. Most people hate dealing with dishes, with groceries, cooking,

• 43:07Speaker 00

  remembering to feed the dog, picking up the dog poop outside, moving the laundry along. And when I have started to identify those as a household item versus a Chris Robbins or a Mel Robbins item.

• 43:22Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 43:23Speaker 00

  No, these are shared. They're not assigned by gender. It's amazing what a family group chat can do. Hey, it's 5 o'clock. I'm on a call. Can somebody feed the dog?

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Come on.

• 43:32Speaker 00

  Hey, I can't run to the grocery store tomorrow. Who can pick up this list of things on the way home? And starting to, as you said, instead of being feelings, if I don't do it, nobody's gonna eat, and what are we gonna eat? No, principles. Household chores are shared among the household. And if people are living here, people are helping out. And every text that you send, you're asking yourself first, are you the best person for the job right now? Or are you on a phone call while out with your girlfriends? You're not the best person for the job? Can I ask somebody else to do it? Why am I self assigning? And just because you did it for the last two decades does not mean you're gonna do it for the next decade. Like, you can change anytime you want.

• 44:16Speaker 01

  And I want to say, and this may not be everybody, but there's some validation in certain roles. Whereas, you know, I had to say to Didi, you know, we can actually have somebody else do that. But Didi and I both, in different roles, we had to say, I'm, I'm used to making the turkey. For Thanksgiving, for years, I made the turkey. And I'll be honest, it wasn't just making the turkey. It was, it was like, that's my, you know, nobody else makes the turkey. I make the turkey. And it got to a point where it's like, Eric, the turkey is good, the experience is good, but you're in a season where you could give it up and give it to somebody else. And I don't know what that thing is, but like, your identity...

• 45:00Speaker 00

  Everybody has that.

• 45:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, your identity, my, you know, a little bit of my ego was in there. And I, and I had to not let the turkey go. I had to let go of, I'm gonna be that guy.

• 45:09Speaker 00

  Well, you know what's interesting about that? Is that we all have a version of being the person that at family gatherings was the one who made the pie, or was the one who made the turkey.

• 45:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:20Speaker 00

  And nobody actually asked you to do it. You started doing it, then everybody expected you to do it, then you felt like it was your obligation to do it, and you already gave us the most important thing. If you love doing it, do it for the love of it. But if you're starting to resent it, and you're exhausted, and you're going through a challenging period in your life, you need to make a list of all those things that are grinding on you, that are weighing you down. And the second that you make that list, you go from being the strong one, you go from being the one that's got it all together, to being honest with yourself about where you are in your life right now. And here's what I would recommend. I am guilty of getting really pissed off at everybody,

• 46:05Speaker 00

  but they don't actually know I'm at war with them. And nobody asked me to have the fridge stocked. Nobody asked me to have the laundry done. Nobody asked me to do all these things that I tell myself I absolutely have to do. And if I'm doing them for myself, that's one thing. But if I'm doing them because of this made up obligation, now I'm resentful. But it's almost like I've created this war inside myself because I've never made the list, and I've never sat down and had the conversation to say, hey, how we've been doing life as a family doesn't work for me anymore? What could we do differently?

• 46:40Speaker 01

  And I just say, it's okay not to do that anymore.

• 46:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, no, it's not even, it is okay. What you're saying is that not being honest with yourself.

• 46:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 46:52Speaker 00

  That your family has moved on to a different chapter. It is time for you to get honest about what works for you now.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  And be okay with it. And so I just think there are a lot of women who you have told yourself, you have to do this. This is not gonna happen. And I'm telling you, let go and just enjoy the marriage.

• 47:09Speaker 00

  You know, I, I think a lot of us keep doing all the same things that we were doing when the kids were little, when, you know, you were in earlier chapters of your marriage and in your life, because you got used to it, and it's a way that you felt valuable, and it's a way that you shared your love, and it's a way that you felt like you were contributing, and mothering, and loving. And what I have found is that when I get to a point where I'm bitchy, and I'm stressed, and I'm overwhelmed, that continuing to run myself into the ground, what happens is, the kids don't get a full fridge, they get a bitchy mother.

• 47:49Speaker 01

  Hmm, that's good.

• 47:51Speaker 00

  My husband doesn't get the laundry done. He gets a wife that is angry and frustrated and stressed out. And so the things that I am running myself into the ground doing, because I'm used to expressing love, or, you know, feeling valuable, or mothering, or spousing in that way, are backfiring. And it goes to your principles versus feelings. Like, when you have a principle that you want to be present, and you want to be calm, and you want to prioritize connection, and not allow these dumb things, like keeping the house clean, and like, having dinner perfect and all this stuff. That's what starts to run you into the ground, is the standards that you're holding yourself to,

• 48:36Speaker 00

  because you just got used to it. You know, could you talk to the person listening and just give them a little coaching, Dr. Thomas, about asking for help? Like, why is it so hard to ask for help, and why do you need to ask for help when you feel like you're carrying the load?

• 48:50Speaker 01

  I think one of the deeper realizations is that nobody's gonna do it the way you do it. Like, you have to come to a place of peace with that. Like the level of care that you give, the level of support that you give, the level of attention and detail you give. Nobody in this house is gonna be able to do it the way you do it. And you gotta be okay with that. And you also have to be okay with knowing that they're not, but allowing people to be as good as they possibly can be. So the reason why I think it's so difficult for you to ask for help is because you actually don't think you're getting it. Like, the reason why it's difficult for you to ask for help is because you don't feel like people will ever be able to reach your standard to do it to the level that you want them to do it.

• 49:34Speaker 01

  But I say this, I told my mother, you cannot give a life for a life. Cleaning a house can't be deeper than your own emotional wellness. Right? Washing clothes can't be as deep as your mental health. And so you've gotta learn that, no, it probably won't look the way it would look if I did it. No, it will not be as clean. No, it won't be as thorough. No, they won't be able to do it to the level that I'm able to do it. But I promise you this, you'll be able to have a life.

• 50:03Speaker 00

  I also love that you can help yourself.

• 50:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 50:06Speaker 00

  By just making this list and asking yourself, like, does this even matter to me? Can I lower my standards a little so I can raise my standard of living? You know what I'm saying?

• 50:15Speaker 01

  And does this matter to them?

• 50:18Speaker 00

  Okay, let's repeat that because I feel like we do that.

• 50:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:22Speaker 00

  We make sure all the laundry's done and your kids don't care. We make sure the mudroom is picked up and the stuff's in the cubbies. Nobody cares because they throw their stuff right back on the floor. We make sure the dishes are always done and the da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da and the counters are clean. Nobody cares because they keep putting their stuff on the counter.

• 50:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, you care more than they care. And DeeDee said, some of the stuff that you're doing for our family, you made that up. We never sat down and talked about that. You never asked us if that's what we wanted. That's what you thought we wanted? Or that's what you wanted to impose on us? But we didn't ask for that. DeeDee said, I'd rather have you than a trip. Like, I'd rather just spend time with my husband. And so I'm saying we have to be careful that the things that we're doing for our family are really things that we're doing for our family and not just things we're saying we're doing for our family that we really want to do for ourselves, that make us happy and that fulfill us. It's not about me anymore, it's about we.

• 51:26Speaker 01

  And so to myself, I had to say that. And to DeeDee, I had to just say, DeeDee, make sure the stuff that you're doing, that you feel like is a blessing to us, is really a blessing to us and not just something that was a blessing to us 15 years ago, 20 years ago. Let's live in today, what's best for us today? And you said it, there's no way to do it without communicating. We don't serve our families or ourselves when we keep it to ourselves. Let's just have the daily conversation. Let's just communicate. Let's just do an audit of what's really important. And let's do that because honestly, I assume that I'm going to live to maybe 90. I assume that I'm gonna live a long life, but I don't know that I have until next week.

• 52:10Speaker 01

  So we can't spend it just on chores or we can't spend it just on whatever. Like, we didn't get married to do chores. We got married to be with each other and be blissful and to make our lives better by being together.

• 52:23Speaker 00

  Dr. Thomas, what is the most important thing of everything we talked about today for the person listening to do after hearing this?

• 52:29Speaker 01

  Making yourself a priority. And you say, how? By thinking about the people that are a priority? And what are you doing for them? And just flip it. You have everybody else's list, but you don't have your own list. And so I would just say, I'm not saying don't be a blessing to others, but do for you, take care of you. You only get one life.

• 52:52Speaker 00

  One of the great things about this conversation is we're inviting you

• 52:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 52:56Speaker 00

  to stop.

• 52:57Speaker 01

  And ask.

• 52:58Speaker 00

  Put down the dishes.

• 52:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:59Speaker 00

  Put down the phone, put down the laundry, put down the weight that you're carrying for everybody else. And we're giving you an invitation to ask.

• 53:07Speaker 01

  What would make you happy?

• 53:08Speaker 00

  Yes, right now.

• 53:09Speaker 01

  Outside of your children, your spouse, or your career? Like, what would make you happy? And then when you know, share it with the people that you love and give them an opportunity to be as much of a blessing that you've been to them? Give them a chance to be a blessing to you.

• 53:26Speaker 00

  And one of the things that's always worked for me when I get caught up in my feelings or my excuses is I ask myself, if my daughter were in this situation, would I be happy for her? If my daughter were in this situation, what change would I want her to make? Your family doesn't want you burnt out. They don't want you bitter. They don't want you stressed out. They don't want you giving up on your dreams. That they would love to see you be able to step outside the role that you've been playing for the last decade and ask for some help and share what you really want and share some of your goals. And you might be very, very surprised at the support that you receive when you ask for it.

• 54:09Speaker 01

  You really do owe you. I would be embarrassed to end my life and knowing that the people around me knew how good DeeDee was to me

• 54:22Speaker 01

  and me knowing that I wasn't as good to her as she was to me. That's what I want more than anything. The only way I can thank you is to reverse the roles and to be as much of a blessing to you as you were to me. And we need your help in communicating what that would look like. You know, what you would want, right? Because again, DeeDee's like, I don't want flowers. Wash my car and put gas in it. I'm like, okay, good, I got it. Okay, I'm not gonna mess up anymore and just bring you flowers.

• 54:48Speaker 00

  Well, one beautiful thing about this conversation is you can copy the link.

• 54:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:53Speaker 00

  And share it with your wife or your mother.

• 54:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 54:55Speaker 00

  And ask her to listen to this.

• 54:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 54:58Speaker 00

  And then say, when you're done listening, or I want to listen with you, I want to talk about what you want.

• 55:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:03Speaker 00

  I want to talk about the weight you're carrying. I want to talk about the things that you keep doing that are stressing you out. I want to talk about the help that you need. And this conversation could really open up a whole new chapter and change her life. And that would be a beautiful, beautiful offering to give her.

• 55:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's switch. Let's, let me help. Let you sit there and take, receive the help.

• 55:27Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 55:27Speaker 01

  Whether it's your children, whether it's your spouse, let me help. I want to share the load. Again, we is greater than me. I want to pull with you. I want to help you pull. I want to help you structure. I want to help you pay the bills. I want to help, whatever it is. You don't have to do it alone. I don't know why you feel like you need to do it alone. I don't know what I did to make you do it alone.

• 55:48Speaker 00

  I think we watched our mothers do it.

• 55:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:49Speaker 00

  I think it's conditioning based on what we saw and what you have given us today, Dr. Thomas. Thank you, thank you, thank you. You have given us permission, urgency, the truth, and how one conversation and this wake-up call of saying to yourself, you don't have to carry the load. You can put it down, but recognize what load you're carrying. Make your list and then get very loud about it.

• 56:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:18Speaker 00

  Dr. Eric Thomas, what are your parting words?

• 56:21Speaker 01

  Understand how valuable you are. Understand how significant you are. Understand how important you are outside of your role, outside of being a mom, outside of being a wife, outside of being a podcaster, a speaker, a counselor, a preacher, whatever you are, an athlete, outside of all your roles. You are special. And when you understand how special you are and you move from that place, your life is gonna be fulfilled. And let me say this, you don't need to be attached to anybody else to be special. You don't need a certain role or a certain human or a certain economic status. You are uniquely you.

• 57:04Speaker 01

  You are special, you are gifted, you are talented. Love on you. That's what I would say to you.

• 57:10Speaker 00

  Well, Dr. Eric Thomas, thank you for loving on us.

• 57:14Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me. Thank you.

• 57:16Speaker 00

  And thank you for making the time to listen to something that could change your life or the life of all the women in your life. I hope you will be generous with this. I hope you will share this with your mother and your wife and your sisters. I hope you will ask her, what is it that you actually want? And help her make the list of the things that she wants to put down, the weight that she's carrying. I think you'd be surprised how long the list is. And she will be liberated by being given the gift of you asking and you sharing this episode. And in case no one else tells you, as your friend, I'm gonna tell you that I love you. I bet Dr. Thomas wants to say that, too.

• 57:53Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Love you, love you, love you. And I pray that you will learn to love yourself.

• 57:59Speaker 00

  Oh, and this conversation, it is my hope that it helps you do that because you can create a better life. But learning how to love yourself, learning how to put down the weight that you're carrying, that you no longer need to carry, that is one of the best ways that you can do it. All righty, I will see you in the very next episode. I'll welcome you in the moment you hit play.

• 58:21Speaker 01

  Oh, well, I talked about it last. What's possible is high blood pressure.

• 58:28Speaker 00

  I don't mean to laugh, but you, you have a funny, profound way of talking.

• 58:32Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 58:32Speaker 00

  Okay, great.

• 58:33Speaker 01

  Talk to me, ma'am.

• 58:34Speaker 00

  You got it. Dr. Hera, I'm gonna talk to you.

• 58:36Speaker 01

  Talk to me, ma'am.

• 58:37Speaker 00

  Okay, well, I want you to talk to me and to the person that's listening.

• 58:41Speaker 01

  Talk to me first, and I got it.

• 58:42Speaker 00

  Yes, no, I'm serious. Because Dr. Thomas, you know, as a preacher, as an educator, we recently were like, why are we buying presents at Christmas? What could we do differently? Because I'm tired of feeling like Santa and nobody buys anything for my stocking.

• 58:56Speaker 01

  What she said.

• 58:57Speaker 00

  What he said.

• 58:58Speaker 01

  What she said.

• 58:58Speaker 00

  What he said.

• 59:01Speaker 00

  Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

• 59:43Speaker 00

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