JRE MMA Show #187 with Robert Whittaker

Joe sits down with Robert Whittaker, a professional mixed martial artist currently competing in the UFC's light heavyweight division and host of the "MMArcade" podcast.www.ascendfitnessbyrob.com/www.musashi.com/pages/reaper-rangewww.patreon.com/cw/MMArcadePodcastwww.youtube.com/@MMArcadePodcastwww.robwhittaker.co Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Don’t miss out on all the action this week at DraftKings! Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up using https://dkng.co/rogan or through my promo code ROGAN. Sign up at https://Foxnation.com/RAF to stream RAF 14 LIVE on October 23 at 9p EST Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

• 0:12Speaker 00

  All right. What's up, Robert? Good to see you, brother. What's happening?

• 0:15Speaker 01

  Thank you so much for having me. And I want to thank you for last night, you know?

• 0:19Speaker 00

  Oh, my pleasure. Glad you had a good time.

• 0:21Speaker 01

  Seeing the show was just unbelievable. It was my first time at a comedy club.

• 0:24Speaker 00

  Ever?

• 0:25Speaker 01

  Ever.

• 0:25Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 0:26Speaker 01

  And, um, yeah, it blew my mind.

• 0:28Speaker 00

  There's some good comedy clubs in Australia. In Sydney, they have the Comics Lounge. That's a great spot.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I've, I've heard of them. I just never found the time to...

• 0:36Speaker 00

  Yeah. Oh, I get it.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  Try and juggle it.

• 0:37Speaker 00

  I don't know how the fuck you guys have time for anything, you know? And you have a bunch of kids, married, like, an actual life outside of fighting?

• 0:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 0:45Speaker 00

  Like, I don't know how you have any time, like...

• 0:48Speaker 01

  That's kind of the balancing act, isn't it? Yeah. That's why you see, that's why I have nothing but respect with the guys that, that hang in there and, and fight for any longer amount of years is because life goes on around it. And from when I started, like, 20, I had no kids, to when I'm now, I'm married with six kids and mortgages and their life. You know, you kind of juggle it around. Just balancing act. It's wild.

• 1:11Speaker 00

  What a big shift. 20, single, wild man, just out there fighting. And now here you are, six kids, mortgage, businesses, like, you got this supplement thing you're doing now with Musashi, you got your own supplement line. So it's a lot of work, man. It's a lot, a lot of activity, a lot of things going on, a lot of balls juggling.

• 1:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. You gotta, gotta stay busy, though, right? It's like idle hands, especially if someone... And, and you'd get this, like, when, I guess, like, with performing, performance sports and, like, the, the gear team's kind of always over your head, right? So you've kind of always got to stay busy, keep moving. It's like a shark, otherwise you just kind of drown.

• 1:52Speaker 00

  Oh, for sure. Especially in combat sports, especially when you consider the fact that even in the, the outlier end, you only have a certain amount of time. Like, the true outliers in the sport, I think one of the true outliers in the sport right now is Jared Cannonier. He's one of the outliers. Because that dude is, how old is he now? 41, 42, somewhere? How old is Jared Cannonier, young Jamie?

• 2:20Speaker 00

  42, still shredded.

• 2:23Speaker 01

  Like, like anybody's business.

• 2:24Speaker 00

  Still shredded, still works out like a fucking demon, still has insane cardio and drive, still wins fights in the trenches.

• 2:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:33Speaker 00

  Like that fight with Gregory Rodriguez, he was getting blasted in that first round. He looked bad.

• 2:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:39Speaker 00

  Comes on, wins it in the trenches and stops him.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  Even when he loses, it's not like...

• 2:43Speaker 00

  Not by much?

• 2:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's not by much at all. Like, when he lost to Robo, Robocop, um, it was like...

• 2:52Speaker 00

  When did he lose to him? Did he lose to him? Because he just beat him recently.

• 2:55Speaker 01

  Did he? It was like, who did he lose to then?

• 2:57Speaker 00

  Because Gregory Rodriguez is Robocop. So he just stopped him recently. He was getting beaten up in the first round. And Robocop is one of those guys that cuts.

• 3:06Speaker 01

  It was like a kind of, kind of controversial stoppage. I forget who it was.

• 3:10Speaker 00

  Hmm. Oh, I know who you're talking about. It wasn't him. It was... God, what was the, what was the one that, I think it was Imovov.

• 3:22Speaker 01

  Maybe, maybe.

• 3:24Speaker 00

  I think Imovov was the, go back to that, please.

• 3:26Speaker 01

  Look at the amount of fights he's had since then. And that's the one that's in my head fresh.

• 3:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't remember the one that was a controversial stoppage. I'm pretty sure it was Imovov. 90% sure.

• 3:39Speaker 01

  Michael Page was a bad fight for him.

• 3:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, that was a bad fight for him.

• 3:45Speaker 01

  Michael Page seems like the most annoying guy to fight ever.

• 3:49Speaker 00

  Oh, dude, well, first of all, when he was at 1, I think 170 is really his weight class. And he's also another guy that's like, he's 40 now or 39. You know, when he was at 170, fucking good luck. Good luck even touching that cat. Too fast, too much movement.

• 4:08Speaker 01

  He kept the speed at 185, too.

• 4:09Speaker 00

  He did. Well, I think the thing about 185, though, is the grapplers.

• 4:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:14Speaker 00

  If they get a hold of him, it's just a different world, you know? Because that's the only guy that ever beat him in the UFC was Ian Gary. And the way he did it was by grappling.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:23Speaker 00

  You know?

• 4:24Speaker 01

  And just counter-striking, setting up his shots a little bit.

• 4:27Speaker 00

  He's just, I've always said, I said it from early on, that I think that that's a missing link in MMA is point fighting. These guys who really know how to do that style and then learn the other things. Because that style is so, it, it's, you cover so much distance so quickly, and they're so good at avoiding shots, and then leaping in, and they're so good at timing and scoring. And if you could score with one shot like those guys do, they leap in and score with one, if you're a good combination fighter, once you connect once, then the other shots can flow from that. If you develop that style on top of that original point fighting style.

• 5:06Speaker 01

  100%. And, like, the, the huge factor in all this is, like, they're such small gloves.

• 5:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  A touch can stop you.

• 5:14Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  Like, that's all you need. And that's kind of been my approach with how I, my fight style is just to be, be fast. Be fast, just get, just land my hands.

• 5:22Speaker 00

  Well, you have a very similar style in a lot of ways. Like, you're very wide stance, you have a lot of, you blitz a lot, you leap in and leap out, very fast and agile.

• 5:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:32Speaker 00

  I feel like that's a great style also to, like, avoid the, like, some of these fights, some guys, like, you see these fights where they're just, like, fucking stand right in front of each other. And some guys thrive on it. You know, it's like, that's, that's their thing. They like to just stand in the pocket and blast it out.

• 5:48Speaker 01

  But for how long?

• 5:49Speaker 00

  I know.

• 5:50Speaker 01

  You know, and tell me if you think he's an outlier as well as that, King Green.

• 5:54Speaker 00

  Oh, God. Super outlier.

• 5:57Speaker 01

  Because, like, I wasn't on his wagon, but then, then he changed his name. It's like, he started going downhill and, like, everyone was just like, okay, he's gonna just fade into obscurity, you know? Let's leave it as that. He changes his name, starts piecing people up.

• 6:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  Starts winning by TKOs. And you're like, he's back. I'm so back.

• 6:12Speaker 00

  At 40.

• 6:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:14Speaker 00

  I know. He's, well, he just has a real love of the game. He really does love fighting. He loves it.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  Again, an invasion fighter.

• 6:20Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:21Speaker 01

  Right?

• 6:21Speaker 00

  And weird style, hands down. And you think he's there, and the punches are coming at weird angles.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:27Speaker 00

  He's popping you from all sorts of, and talking shit the entire time. Like, I can't believe this guy's talking shit to me.

• 6:33Speaker 01

  I've never understood guys that, that can do that. Like Holland?

• 6:37Speaker 00

  Yo, he's one of the best.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  I remember, I was watching, he was doing some research for the, for the next card, and he was setting up a basketball game with one of his guys, one of the guys he was fighting. Like, it was, it just blows my mind. I don't know how you can get in that headspace, because when I'm in there, I'm on the roller coaster of pain, like, I'm just angry.

• 6:59Speaker 00

  Well, he's having fun.

• 7:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:01Speaker 00

  And, you know, you said something interesting last night. You said, like, a happy Robert is fucking dangerous, Robert.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:07Speaker 00

  We were, we were talking about Carlos Pratess, and how Carlos Pratess looks like he's always having fun in there. He's so relaxed.

• 7:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:15Speaker 00

  And we were talking about his time in Thailand, when he moved there, and he essentially had, over the course of, like, something like six years, he had 100 Muay Thai fights.

• 7:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:23Speaker 00

  And kickboxing fights, which is crazy.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  That's wild, because Muay Thai is so damaging on the body.

• 7:29Speaker 00

  Oh, as hell, yeah. But, but because of that, he developed this very loose, like, relaxed style, like, very aggressive, but also just very comfortable inside of the octagon.

• 7:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. Like, he doesn't, he doesn't get that kind of fight or flight response anymore.

• 7:47Speaker 00

  Right.

• 7:47Speaker 01

  He just turns up and he's just accustomed to it.

• 7:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:51Speaker 01

  He lives in that, in that space. But, because everyone's waiting, I guess not everyone, it's like, everybody that, I don't know how to phrase it. It's like, everybody, everybody that doesn't drink and smoke before a fight is waiting for it to catch up with him, so they can justify why they don't drink and smoke, right? Because I guarantee if I started drinking and smoking before a fight, I'm gone. Like, within seconds, within seconds. I'm gassing on the walkout, and then, and then, like, I'll wake up in the ER. Like, that's just...

• 8:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, that guy parties. I mean, he's smoking cigarettes the day of the fight.

• 8:26Speaker 01

  The locker room.

• 8:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:27Speaker 01

  And people are like, you can't smoke back here. That's crazy. That's a crazy, like this UFC staff must be bewildered. Like just to see this and he's like, I think he said in one of his interviews, I trained really hard for this fight. I haven't drank for two weeks or something like that. I was like, yeah, good effort, man. Commitment.

• 8:48Speaker 00

  I wonder how much of an edge that takes off of you physically versus what it gives you psychologically to just be able to chill out every night.

• 8:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess that's the, what we were discussing last night, what's the balance, the tipping point for that.

• 9:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:03Speaker 01

  It's like whilst he's happy and he's loose and limber and you know, he feels invincible. Like there are detrimental effects to all this stuff he's, he's doing. I don't, but, but then fighting is a funny sport, isn't it though? Because it's like, it's not like sprinting where you build up this machine to, to run at your maximum. There is so many variables working against you and like, how many times have we seen just nobodies, out of shape dudes just come in, but know how to throw a punch and just win by starching people. It's like, yeah, it's just a funny sport.

• 9:40Speaker 00

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• 12:48Speaker 00

  It's a crazy sport and sometimes if you're not worried, even though you should be worried, that's a good thing.

• 12:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:55Speaker 00

  Like there's guys that are, it's like ignorance is bliss. They come in just fucking wild haymakers that shouldn't land and they do land. And all of a sudden the guy's out and they got their arms up in the air and everybody's like, what the fuck just happened? That's crazy.

• 13:09Speaker 01

  It happens, it happens too, too often.

• 13:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Too often.

• 13:14Speaker 00

  Especially with the little gloves.

• 13:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I'm like, then I'm sweating and grinding away, trying to get better. And you get these guys that can just turn up and just, just touch of death people.

• 13:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, there's that too. That's, that's interesting because you're a power puncher, you're a power kicker. But there's like, there's people that have a weird power, right? It's like, it doesn't even like Pereira.

• 13:34Speaker 01

  The Nganu power.

• 13:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, Nganu or um, you know, uh, there's uh, Damian Pinos. You know that dude?

• 13:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 13:42Speaker 00

  Jesus Christ.

• 13:43Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 13:44Speaker 00

  That guy, that's.

• 13:45Speaker 01

  Ulberg.

• 13:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, Ulberg's got crazy power. Crazy power. Yeah.

• 13:49Speaker 01

  That Yuri fight, that last Yuri fight?

• 13:52Speaker 00

  Blown out leg.

• 13:53Speaker 01

  Oh my goodness. And Yuri, like, oh my goodness.

• 13:57Speaker 00

  Yuri needs a psychologist. He needs someone to talk to him and say, we have to have strategies. Okay, you're a seek and kill fighter. When a guy's hurt, you can't be upset that he's hurt and then try to give him some concessions.

• 14:10Speaker 01

  It was like he was part of an anime. I don't like, he was, he was in his own show of like, and there was rain in the background in his head. There's like rain in the background and his mud and his sweat.

• 14:21Speaker 00

  Thunder.

• 14:23Speaker 01

  He wasn't, he wasn't there. And then, and then he like, ooh, like hitting with that touch of death that he's got from that left hook, man.

• 14:29Speaker 00

  That left hook is a whip. It's such a whip, man. And what's really crazy is that is the only punch that's available. If your other leg is blown out. It's the only punch. Cause you can pivot off that leg. I mean, it's kind of crazy if you really think about it.

• 14:44Speaker 01

  He's got one option. Yeah. Yeah. He's got, he's got one option and he just.

• 14:50Speaker 00

  So he's still moving around pretty decent, even with a fucked up leg. But then you see it like as he gets leg kicked, he stumbles back. He just can't move. When he want, like when he wants to move and he can control it, he's fine. But it's like chaotic defensive movements, back and forth where you're, you know, you're shifting oddly on your legs. That's where a blown out ACL really fucks you. Was it his right leg or his left leg that was fucked up in that fight?

• 15:17Speaker 01

  I want to think, say his left.

• 15:18Speaker 00

  I think it's his right because that would make sense why he could throw the left hook.

• 15:22Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 15:23Speaker 00

  Because he could still pivot off that leg.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  Yes. Uh, oh, you see, you see it. But then like even when Yuri backs into the fence, like Carlos has one punch there.

• 15:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's it. Just the left hook.

• 15:40Speaker 01

  One punch.

• 15:40Speaker 00

  Like right here, you could see like Yuri's.

• 15:44Speaker 01

  And Yuri's still in that space.

• 15:46Speaker 00

  Oh, there it is. Well, Yuri in that, like, maybe I'm thinking about it differently because in that moment, so that's post the injury when Yuri realized he had the injury. But in that moment, it did look like Yuri was moving in for the kill. But you just, you can't throw caution to the wind with a guy like Carlos, because Carlos Holberg could just start you. One, yeah, that's where he blew his leg out. It was his right one.

• 16:10Speaker 01

  You see it go like wobble.

• 16:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, you see it like vibration through it. That's horrible.

• 16:15Speaker 01

  That's especially, I think very like, it's super vital as a light heavyweight as well. Like the power of light heavyweights and that's, that was my headspace moving in from middleweight. It's like everyone's got touch of death.

• 16:30Speaker 00

  Right.

• 16:31Speaker 01

  It's why the fights, like a lot of light heavyweight fights are out because they're still fast, still fast enough to land, but they're just heavier guys.

• 16:37Speaker 00

  Right.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  Bigger punches and you just can't play games like that.

• 16:42Speaker 00

  There's only a few guys that are like smaller, like Merzakhanov is a good example of a guy who's been real successful as a light heavyweight, as a smaller guy.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  Azamat. Yeah.

• 16:52Speaker 00

  Azamat.

• 16:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, yes, yes, yes. The guy that lost to Costa. He's fighting actually this weekend.

• 16:56Speaker 00

  He is. Yeah, yeah.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  Against Reyes. Is he really 5'10"?

• 17:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, he's small for a light heavyweight and, and doesn't look ripped. Like he carries a lot, but so skillful.

• 17:07Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 17:08Speaker 00

  He's so slick, man.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  And aggressive with his shots.

• 17:11Speaker 00

  When, when you see Paulo Costa fight him at light heavyweight, you're like, Jesus, how come Paulo Costa wasn't a light heavyweight the whole time?

• 17:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 17:17Speaker 00

  That's a guy where it just completely made sense where he went up to light heavyweight and like, you look like a light heavyweight, man.

• 17:23Speaker 01

  Especially with his, like, the few times he lost, he missed weight and was struggling for weight cuts and, and stuff. I feel like for a long period there, he was kind of finding his feet and then, then he found his feet just in time to, to fight me. And he came out like with super cardio and like super quick.

• 17:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, that was a great fight.

• 17:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was a lot of fun. I got spinning heel kicked.

• 17:45Speaker 00

  That was great. But you, you were one of the few dudes that I've ever seen get spinning heel kicked and survive it. You know, like that's a crazy kick to get cracked with.

• 17:53Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, I'll take it. I'll take that. Cause uh, yeah, that's, that's a funny kick too. Cause like, it's so hard to prepare for, because it's not a kick you can, for, it's not, it's not a kick he throws very often.

• 18:07Speaker 00

  Right.

• 18:08Speaker 01

  You know, and, and it's not one you can really train in, in the workroom.

• 18:13Speaker 00

  Right. Cause you can't train it full clip because you can't pull it.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. And how you're gonna, you can't pad it up or anything like that with a moon boots, right? But um, yeah, it's, and even I remember, I remember being in there and seeing him start to do that, that turn. And there's that one split second, because I've never seen it before, where I'm like, what's going on?

• 18:34Speaker 01

  And then my legs are going, oh, doing funny, funny things. So.

• 18:38Speaker 00

  There's a moment where Michael Venom Page was talking about this crazy training partner that he has. This guy who was like elite in the gym, but never quite could put it together in the cage. And he's in, he's sparring with him and there's this weird moment where he's like, what is he doing? And he realized he's doing a front flip to an ax kick. And as he's realizing it, he just instinctively does that and blocks it. But it just completely on instinct. Like how, why would you be expecting a guy to do a front flip to an ax kick?

• 19:14Speaker 01

  It's like a rolling thunder, isn't it?

• 19:15Speaker 00

  But it's, it's cra, no, that's like a wheel kick, but it's similar. But would this guy does it? He does it to a heavy bag? Do you remember that guy's name, Jamie?

• 19:24Speaker 00

  There's a video of him doing it. Well, that's that's similar. That's Miguel Torres early in his UFC. That's who that is, right?

• 19:34Speaker 01

  I I guarantee you, if someone does this kick to me, I'm taking it straight between the eyes.

• 19:40Speaker 00

  But this guy did it and do it with a roll. He did it. That's it. Michael Venn and Page was talking about that guy. That this guy did, the way he could do it, he could do it on the bag and like hit the bag with a front flip ax kick. And I mean, who who the fuck can do that, man?

• 20:00Speaker 01

  Like, I'm I'm blowing out both ham both hamstrings trying to do this.

• 20:04Speaker 00

  Is this not available?

• 20:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, it does.

• 20:10Speaker 00

  There's a video that he should. There it is. There's the guy.

• 20:13Speaker 01

  He lands on his feet.

• 20:14Speaker 00

  Yes, dude. Watch that.

• 20:16Speaker 01

  It's like a street fighter move.

• 20:18Speaker 00

  It's doesn't seem like it's a real move. It doesn't seem like anybody could do it.

• 20:22Speaker 01

  And it's fast.

• 20:23Speaker 00

  Fast as fuck, dude. Fast as fuck. And the dude lands it. Look at that. It lands it as an ax kick.

• 20:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:31Speaker 00

  And he he practices it on the back.

• 20:33Speaker 01

  I'm taking that straight between the eyes. There is no way. Luckily for me, I don't think anyone in the light heavyweight division is gonna be doing that stuff.

• 20:42Speaker 00

  There there's the dude's name. Galore Bolfondo. Well, watch this guy. He's so fucking athletic, man. This is literally crazy.

• 20:50Speaker 01

  Wow. He actually, he he.

• 20:52Speaker 00

  Oh, God, these fucking pop-ups.

• 20:54Speaker 01

  He.

• 20:56Speaker 00

  Fuck off with your pop-ups. I mean, I I there's levels, right? Like, I've always said that if you can get someone who's a gymnast and teach them. There he is right there. You can see it again. Watch. Watch how he does this, man. This is fucking crazy.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:12Speaker 00

  That is so crazy.

• 21:14Speaker 01

  It what what's crazy is like he lands and still lands on his feet.

• 21:18Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, like a cat.

• 21:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:20Speaker 00

  Lands perfectly and then slides back into a perfect stance.

• 21:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:23Speaker 00

  It's nuts.

• 21:23Speaker 01

  Like, my knees are hurting watching him.

• 21:26Speaker 00

  I know. Dude, I hurt my back in the shower today. I worked out. I worked out. I hit the bag. I punched the bag, kicked the bag, had this great workout. Got in the sauna for 20 minutes, stretched out, feeling great. Got in the shower, taking a shower before the podcast. I went, ah!

• 21:45Speaker 00

  Doing something like in between my shoulder blades, doing nothing, just fucking washing myself.

• 21:53Speaker 01

  Age creeps. I picked up and I I'm still a professional athlete. Like, I'm still, I'm still, I'm going in for that title. Like, I'm going in for the title. So I picked up. I picked up one of my kids and I felt like a twinge in my lap and I'm like, ooh. And you just age age creeps up on you.

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• 23:26Speaker 00

  Well, it's also this. I think there's this little micro injuries that you're not totally aware of. And then you do something and they just give, which makes sense because I was throwing a lot of left hooks today and a lot of left switch kicks. So it was like, I I think I was just a lot on that side.

• 23:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:42Speaker 00

  It was a lot of that side. And so just washing. I went, eh! It's just like it's this draw, this draw. It's just so embarrassing to have a great hard workout, feel real good about yourself. Feel good about it today.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  Strong as hell.

• 23:55Speaker 00

  Or myself washing. Or myself washing myself.

• 23:58Speaker 01

  It's usually the way, though. Like, I I pick up so many silly injuries just trying to either play with the kids, for one. Because I think once you're over 35, you can't go into a dead sprint, like a from a start from a stopped position.

• 24:14Speaker 00

  Right.

• 24:15Speaker 01

  Without a 30-minute warm-up.

• 24:17Speaker 00

  Right.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  I need to warm up my hamstrings and everything before I'm doing this because I did what when I'm and if your kids rate challenges you to a race, especially if you've got boys, you got to you got to beat them.

• 24:27Speaker 00

  Right.

• 24:27Speaker 01

  You can't let your boys beat you to a race.

• 24:30Speaker 00

  Last time I blew out my hamstring was racing with my 15-year-old daughter in Italy. I blew my hamstring.

• 24:36Speaker 01

  15 is getting a bit old to like they're getting faster than.

• 24:39Speaker 00

  I know, especially girls. She's light.

• 24:42Speaker 01

  My boys are all under 11 still, so I can hobble along. I don't need the full warm-up, you know, but it's, yeah, I that that's, you know, I need a full hamstring warm-up, stretch out before.

• 24:54Speaker 00

  I remember reading that Muhammad Ali would, he would warm up for a full hour before his workouts. He had a whole system that he did. And one time, I did this thing with Daniel Tosh for his TV show where I like trained him to take a punch from Manny Pacquiao. Manny was being nice. He didn't really hit him. He kind of like, just came a little thump. But anyway, we're in in the boxing gym and I got to see Manny work out.

• 25:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:19Speaker 00

  And he spends a crazy amount of time warming up.

• 25:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:22Speaker 00

  There's all these like band workouts that he does. Everything is like very systematic. They're stretching him and moving him. He doesn't just get out there and ba-da-da-da, ba-da-da. He starts real slow, gets everything warmed up and.

• 25:35Speaker 01

  I think I've seen it. Like, you can get mesmerized watching his warm-up.

• 25:38Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:39Speaker 01

  And then I think also his his ab program.

• 25:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:42Speaker 01

  See, he's doing his ab program. It never stops.

• 25:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:45Speaker 01

  I'm like a 10 crunches and I'm all right because because if I'm getting body shot and I'm not wearing it, it doesn't matter how strong your abs are. You're going down.

• 25:53Speaker 00

  Bro, he's a very unusual guy.

• 25:55Speaker 01

  He's an outlier as well.

• 25:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, in a lot of ways. You know, he's a really good pool player.

• 25:59Speaker 01

  Is he?

• 26:00Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, like a professional level pool player.

• 26:03Speaker 01

  Quirky like super talents.

• 26:05Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, you know, pool is gigantic in the Philippines.

• 26:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 26:10Speaker 00

  And, you know, I mean, it is way bigger than it is in America. It's everywhere. And he has his own pool hall in his compound. So he has a compound in his home. I mean, a full pool hall with like 15 tables and all these people running around and everyone's playing and they're gambling all over the place. Everyone's gambling. They're all gambling. And while he's playing, this is so crazy. So he's playing pool. And while he's playing, while his opponent's shooting, he's signing autographs. He has people just bring him shit to sign so they can sell it. It's like boxing gloves, pool pool cues, posters. He's signing things. It's your shot, Manny. Oh, he goes over and plays. And then he's playing a game of chess. So he's got a game of chess going on. He's sitting down, playing chess.

• 26:52Speaker 00

  He makes his move. His opponent makes his move, runs over, runs a few balls, runs over in between that, signing things down. This is exactly his room. So look, he's got his chessboard that's right by the pool table. Then he's making shots and then he goes and sits down and then in the middle of that, he's signing things. It it it's fucking insane to watch, man.

• 27:13Speaker 01

  I'm getting anxiety watching.

• 27:15Speaker 00

  He's just constantly moving and the pool room is just filled with people. They're all moving around, but he plays real good.

• 27:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:23Speaker 00

  Like, real good.

• 27:24Speaker 01

  You know, if he's turning up with a glove, don't bet on that table.

• 27:28Speaker 00

  But it's like he knows how to play. It's not just like pocketing balls. Like, he gets excellent position. But like I said, pool in the Philippines is gigantic. It's like it's a huge sport. And he's, you know, deeply involved in it. Like, he has his own pool hall that's in the Philippines, like a huge place. And, you know, they they do a big pool tournament with him every year and.

• 27:51Speaker 01

  Where does he get the time? And then and then he still works out full-time?

• 27:54Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, he still works out. Like, he's still trying to fight.

• 27:57Speaker 01

  I think he boxed this year, didn't he?

• 27:59Speaker 00

  He did, yeah. And he's trying to fight someone like world-class right now. He's trying to get like a real, like, world-class fight. Instead of like fighting, you know, you think when a guy gets into his late 40s, probably, you know, have some like, like Mayweather's doing.

• 28:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:13Speaker 00

  Yeah. He fights influencers, MMA fighters, shit like that.

• 28:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:17Speaker 00

  Not Manny. Manny's looking to get another world title fight.

• 28:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:21Speaker 00

  How? Like.

• 28:23Speaker 01

  Why not?

• 28:24Speaker 00

  I guess. Yeah, I mean, I guess he just never lost whatever it is.

• 28:28Speaker 01

  If you're playing pool and chess at the same time.

• 28:31Speaker 00

  Yes, study that guy's brain.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  It's not a stretch.

• 28:35Speaker 00

  And it's super accommodating, like signing all these autographs from people. Like, everybody's running over to him with boxes of shit for him to sign, so they could go sell it.

• 28:43Speaker 01

  I'm so, I was, I'm surprised at how many fighters in general like chess. I know it's a tactical, it's a strategy game, but it's just, it surprises me like the, the guys like, I'll, I'll go. Like, I'll go to the gym and I'll train with some of the boys and they are just, they, they are ogres with gloves on.

• 29:00Speaker 00

  Right.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  Like, they're just, you know what I mean?

• 29:02Speaker 00

  Right, right.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  But then, but then in, then in their downtime, they're just playing online chess and they're, they're ranked like high.

• 29:08Speaker 00

  Really?

• 29:08Speaker 01

  And I'm like, dude, you're, you're a knucklehead.

• 29:13Speaker 01

  I saw you open a can of Spam for lunch. What are you doing? And it just, it just surprises me, you can't always tell, like, judge a book by its cover, right?

• 29:23Speaker 00

  Absolutely, yeah.

• 29:24Speaker 01

  I've thought about getting, do you play chess?

• 29:26Speaker 00

  No, I don't.

• 29:27Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah. I thought about getting into it and then I went on like a deep rabbit hole of like the game of chess and the art of strategy and all of that. And then I realized like, there's just too much to learn.

• 29:37Speaker 00

  Right.

• 29:37Speaker 01

  It's like the first twenty moves or something like that are already, like, in motion, like, everyone knows, at a decent, decent clip. Everyone knows the first twenty moves, cause that's what you're supposed to do.

• 29:46Speaker 00

  Right.

• 29:47Speaker 01

  And then everyone starts going off on different things and I'm just like, oh, it's too much for me.

• 29:50Speaker 00

  It's a long road. And, uh, if you get addicted to it, that's gonna suck up all your time. Cause you could just hop online and play people at any, or your phone.

• 30:00Speaker 01

  What you doing?

• 30:01Speaker 00

  Any time of the day, you could play the computer, you could play real people. So, it's just too nuts.

• 30:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, but.

• 30:07Speaker 00

  It's, there's, but I get it, I really do get it, I understand it. And you could like really underestimate someone's intelligence just based on what they look like. They just look like a giant brute. Like, you ever talked to Josh Barnett?

• 30:21Speaker 01

  No, haven't.

• 30:22Speaker 00

  Former heavyweight champion, one of the smartest people I've ever met. Super smart, quotes Dostoevsky, like, he's like, off the top of his head, he's, he's, he's quoting these, uh, great works of literature.

• 30:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, no way.

• 30:35Speaker 00

  Studies warriors and, yeah, studies history, knows a lot about whiskey, makes his own whiskey, like, brilliant guy.

• 30:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:43Speaker 00

  And, you know, you look at him, so this is a fucking brute who's really into pro wrestling.

• 30:47Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 30:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:48Speaker 01

  Well, the, the athletic side of that sport is just.

• 30:53Speaker 00

  Oh, nuts.

• 30:53Speaker 01

  Unbelievable, like, these, these guys are elite athletes.

• 30:56Speaker 00

  Right.

• 30:57Speaker 01

  Like, cause you have to be, otherwise you'd kill yourself.

• 30:59Speaker 00

  And those guys are taking a pounding that people don't recognize because they're on the road, you know, hundreds of days a year doing these shows. In these local stadiums, so these people come out to see them and they're doing these big pro wrestling shows, but you don't, no one thinks about the fact, like, that's real damage. You're getting body slammed, you're getting a concussion probably, you're definitely getting some CTE, a hundred fucking percent.

• 31:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then they hop on the bus and they go to the next state and do it again.

• 31:28Speaker 00

  Right over.

• 31:29Speaker 01

  And do it again.

• 31:29Speaker 00

  Right over the fucking bridge, back at it. And it's crazy. It's so hard on the body, all the old school pro wrestlers that I've brought in here to talk to, they're all fucked up.

• 31:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:40Speaker 00

  Everyone's just. Yeah, well, before he died, Hulk Hogan, I met him once years ago, like, I didn't meet him, but I said hi to him out, outside of a cigar bar in Beverly Hills. He was fucking gigantic, he was huge. I met him again when he did my po, well, I met him another time when I interviewed him for Spike TV, he was only slightly smaller then. And then I met him again when he did my podcast and he was significantly smaller, cause he keeps getting these fusions on his back, right? So, he's had like eight or nine, it's not funny, it's sad, it's fucked up.

• 32:11Speaker 01

  I'm just picturing like every time you meet him, he's just like.

• 32:14Speaker 00

  Well, it's cause, cause you think about the space, that's why old men shrink, you know? The, one of the reasons why you shrink is you're losing disc space. That's why I've, I've gotten shorter over the years, yeah.

• 32:25Speaker 01

  Your spine's compressed.

• 32:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, you're, you get disc decompre, or compression, you know, it's called, uh, disc degeneration disease.

• 32:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:33Speaker 00

  But what it really is, is just pressure.

• 32:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:35Speaker 00

  It's just all that weight, especially for weightlifters, they all have disc compression. So, his thing was he would jump up in the air and drop down on his ass.

• 32:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:44Speaker 00

  He would land on his ass and elbow you.

• 32:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:47Speaker 00

  So, all that weight, three hundred plus pounds, boom, on his ass every night, boom! His whole spine is going.

• 32:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:56Speaker 00

  And so he had to get his whole back, his whole back was one rod.

• 33:00Speaker 01

  In, in recent years, have you fallen to your ass at any point, like, unprepared? I, like, I lay there for a while, my, I, I feel it all the way up to the top of my base of my skull.

• 33:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's not good.

• 33:12Speaker 01

  I, I can't imagine what sort of damage, well, I can imagine, you can see it.

• 33:16Speaker 00

  Those guys all get fused up.

• 33:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, they all do, it's just, there's, there's no getting around, Kurt Angle was here, his whole neck is just.

• 33:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 33:25Speaker 00

  Yo Romero, Yo Romero's neck is fused to his skull. Another outlier. Dude, you told me that when you fought him, that you said it was like kicking metal.

• 33:34Speaker 01

  It's, I've never felt that way, I've never thrown a calf kick and come off second best. Like, I, I calf kicked him and that was the last calf kick I did, he didn't check it, like, it just hurt. It just hurt, he's just, he's built different, he's just built different, his body is just built different. That's why he's, how old is he, four?

• 33:56Speaker 00

  Forty-nine?

• 33:56Speaker 01

  Forty-nine, he just had a bare knuckle fight with Darren Till.

• 33:59Speaker 00

  And he should have won.

• 33:59Speaker 01

  Props to Darren Till for Ben.

• 34:01Speaker 00

  Props to Darren Till for taking that fight.

• 34:03Speaker 01

  Bare knuckling Yo Romero.

• 34:06Speaker 00

  And he got dropped too.

• 34:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's just.

• 34:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:09Speaker 01

  Big fan of Till, big fan of Till.

• 34:11Speaker 00

  Oh, he's doing great in boxing.

• 34:12Speaker 01

  I think he's found his niche.

• 34:13Speaker 00

  I think he's had knee issues, like significant knee issues over the years, that'll really fuck with him when it comes to grappling.

• 34:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:20Speaker 00

  And, uh, I think, you know, what we got to see in his best in the UFC, like the Cowboy Saroni fight, is his striking. His striking is very elite. He moves really well and I think because of the knee issues, boxing is just a way better choice.

• 34:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:36Speaker 00

  You don't have to take into account the grappling, you're not getting kicked in the knees, you know, it's just, I, I just think his knees are pretty fucked up.

• 34:42Speaker 01

  I think that's why you see a lot of like the older guys that, that weren't really taken advantage of wrestling wise early in their career. But as they get older, they start, like, they start getting taken down, held down, beaten by decision or take, taken, uh, put on their back and kind of submitted there or kept there. And I think that's because, I, I, I know this firsthand, I, I can still do it, because I've just been lucky, really. But, and genetically, like, that, that's a thing, people don't realize, like.

• 35:11Speaker 00

  Hundred percent.

• 35:12Speaker 01

  Hard work, hard work is, will get you very, very far, but there is, like, talent and genetics are a factor.

• 35:19Speaker 00

  Hundred percent.

• 35:19Speaker 01

  A huge factor.

• 35:20Speaker 00

  John Jones is the ultimate merging of talent and genetics.

• 35:22Speaker 01

  Like, yeah, exactly, like, you can't, if you were gonna build someone in a lab, like, he'd come out with John Jones, man, cause.

• 35:29Speaker 00

  Talent, intelligence and genes, it's like all those together.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  He, he's, he's the perfect fighter.

• 35:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:36Speaker 01

  Like, the perfect fighter. But, uh, but yeah, I think as, like, as you get older, you, your knees, your joints start hurting, injuries are more prevalent. You can't wrestle on the mats anymore as much as you used to, you don't have that mat time.

• 35:48Speaker 00

  Right.

• 35:48Speaker 01

  So that when you get in there with these younger guys and they take you down or they start pushing on the wrestling, you just, you're, you're just not there for it.

• 35:55Speaker 00

  Right.

• 35:56Speaker 01

  And I think, I also think that a big part of wrestling is what you do in the first second of the engagement, of the takedown. It's like how that fighting, like, that, that, that fight, that's why you see a lot of young fighters that aren't, don't have a huge pedigree in wrestling. But they get out of positions, they keep fighting, they work their way back up, cause they're fighting and fighting and fighting, which is another thing that kind of dims a little bit as you get older.

• 36:20Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 36:21Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 36:22Speaker 00

  I think there's also the protecting of your joints, right? Whereas you're young, you just explode into things. When you're older, if you've had a few meniscus surgeries or an ACL reconstruction, you don't explode into things haphazardly anymore. You think, you think about it.

• 36:38Speaker 01

  You can't.

• 36:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, you think about it, you position yourself before you push off, even just instinctively, you don't trust your knee.

• 36:44Speaker 01

  Subconsciously.

• 36:44Speaker 00

  Whereas you're young, you're just fucking moving, you're just, you're not even thinking about your knees, you're scrambling, you're trying to get up, you're, you're fucking, you're not thinking of ever protecting yourself.

• 36:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:53Speaker 00

  Whereas you, you get a few surgeries, you get a few blown out joints, you start protecting yourself.

• 36:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:57Speaker 00

  And then there's these certain moments where you're like, look, I could explode, but I might not get the best out of it, let me take a break here. Let me go to my back and try to work myself back in a position to stand up again.

• 37:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that's where the problems come, like, that's, that's how you get held down for the rest of the round and lose that round or whatever.

• 37:13Speaker 00

  Well, Drakis, Drakis and Hamzat, like, that was one of the crazy examples of, the gap in wrestling, like, was gigantic. And Hamzat was the, the absolute, like, worst case scenario opponent for him.

• 37:27Speaker 01

  I, I, people don't give it that fight and what had, what, what, what Shamaev did to Drakis enough, like, thought or space. Because that was unbelievable in a championship level fight, to hold down someone like Drakis who, who couldn't do anything.

• 37:47Speaker 00

  Anything.

• 37:48Speaker 01

  He couldn't do anything and he's a big, strong guy, at the worst case, you just flop around and push someone, you know?

• 37:53Speaker 00

  Right.

• 37:53Speaker 01

  But he just got, kept getting put in that crucifix and held down, like, taken advantage of, it was wild.

• 37:59Speaker 00

  When was the last time you saw someone in a championship fight defending their world title, get put in the crucifix three fucking times?

• 38:06Speaker 01

  Never.

• 38:07Speaker 00

  Never. It's, it's such a hard move to get a guy in in the first place, to get a guy in three times. And a guy who's a fucking bulldog like Drakis, that guy's huge.

• 38:16Speaker 01

  And it's not even, it wasn't like it was just in the first round.

• 38:19Speaker 00

  I just kept doing it.

• 38:20Speaker 01

  Throughout the whole fight, the things are getting sweaty, people are getting tired and he still just kept getting put in, I can, I can barely hold people in a crucifix and a gi. Right.

• 38:33Speaker 01

  To do it at that, like, there then? That's.

• 38:35Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. If you're thinking about building a website, you should try Squarespace. I know because I use it. That's right. JoeRogan.com is powered by Squarespace. It has all the features that you need to create a standout website like an AI-enhanced website builder, SEO optimization tools, and seamless checkouts with mobile pay links. Head to Squarespace.com/Rogan for a free trial. And when you are ready to launch, use the offer code ROGEN to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. This episode is brought to you by Visible. As fall hits, we enter another season of change. Time to shift gears, drop the dead weight,

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  and save $10 on your first month with promo code ROGEN. Terms apply. See visible.com for plan features and network management details. I know, it's like, people want everything to be chaos and blood.

• 40:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:16Speaker 00

  Like, you know that dude who just got cut? Fareed Basharat?

• 40:19Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:20Speaker 00

  Undefeated.

• 40:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, yes.

• 40:21Speaker 00

  Undefeated, got cut. And last time I talked to him was inside the octagon. It was the last fight of his career. He's like, you know, I was like, I'm sure he's gonna get another contract. Like, I think I said that to him in the octagon. Cause he was saying it's his last fight. He's undefeated!

• 40:35Speaker 01

  Didn't age well.

• 40:36Speaker 00

  I, I don't like that. I don't like that thinking that you have to be uber exciting.

• 40:42Speaker 01

  He's got a brother as well, right?

• 40:44Speaker 00

  I believe, and I'm not sure.

• 40:47Speaker 01

  Is that the?

• 40:47Speaker 00

  Fareed Basharat, see if he has a brother?

• 40:49Speaker 01

  I think he's got a brother as well, if that's the...

• 40:52Speaker 00

  The guy's very skillful. Obviously, he's undefeated. And they just decided that they didn't like his style. That...

• 40:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 41:02Speaker 00

  Oh, he's a PFL fighter, okay, that's why. Um, they just decided, I don't, okay, I'm talking out of school. I didn't talk to Dana or Sean Shelby or Mick Maynard. I don't know what happened. I, I don't know. Um, but I didn't like it. I don't like when a guy gets cut that wants to keep fighting in the UFC, he's undefeated, just because you think he's boring. Well, put him in with someone who's fucking exciting. Put him in with someone who pushes him and makes it a crazy fight. Like, if a guy's fighting and winning, you keep fighting and you keep winning. Like, are we saying that Hamzah can't fight in the UFC anymore because of the Drickus fight? Where he won the title? Which a lot of people thought was boring. I didn't think it was boring, but a lot of people thought it was boring.

• 41:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:43Speaker 03

  His brother had the, wasn't undefeated, I don't think, but had the same issue in February. Won in contract.

• 41:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 41:49Speaker 00

  With the UFC?

• 41:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, with the UFC.

• 41:51Speaker 00

  So he had one fight?

• 41:52Speaker 03

  I don't know how many.

• 41:53Speaker 01

  I think he had a few.

• 41:54Speaker 00

  In the UFC?

• 41:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, he won through Dana White's Contender Series and had a few fights.

• 41:58Speaker 00

  Man, I don't like that.

• 42:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:01Speaker 00

  I don't like guys not getting offered contracts because they don't like their style. You're, everyone's trying to win. You're trying to win a fight. Fights are fucking complicated. And this idea that you're supposed to just be entertaining and put your brain on the line and ignore your skillset. Ignore your skillset, which is to avoid damage and to fight intelligently. Know when to engage, know when your gas tank is on E and you gotta play it off a little bit and move around a little bit. Let your body recover. Like, this is what the game is. It's winning.

• 42:36Speaker 01

  If you look at your contracts as well, it's like that to show and to win bonus, like, you, you get more money winning.

• 42:41Speaker 00

  Right, right.

• 42:42Speaker 01

  Like...

• 42:43Speaker 00

  Great example, good point, very good point.

• 42:44Speaker 01

  That's the whole thing. If I could toe-stomp my way to victory, I would. I would. Like, if I could, if I could do what Chamayev does, like, I'm, sometimes I'm jealous of these guys that just can just wrestle. And just, because they take no damage, no damage. And they just take people down and destroy them there. And then, and the longevity of that is much longer until, like, that, that curse hits them where they can't get a takedown and then they never get a takedown again.

• 43:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think that curse is probably what we're talking about too. Like, a buildup of injuries and all these things over time.

• 43:19Speaker 01

  Like, Usman.

• 43:20Speaker 00

  Right.

• 43:20Speaker 01

  He's a guy that, that stopped taking downs. Good example of injuries as well.

• 43:24Speaker 00

  Very exact, good example of injuries. However, he did beat Joaquin Buckley.

• 43:29Speaker 01

  He did.

• 43:30Speaker 00

  And Joaquin Buckley, fucking dangerous as hell, man. And especially then. And Joaquin was on the rise. Did you see the Mike Malat victory this last week? Holy shit, man.

• 43:40Speaker 01

  That was cold.

• 43:41Speaker 00

  Holy shit.

• 43:42Speaker 01

  That was cold.

• 43:42Speaker 00

  Malat looks good, dude.

• 43:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:45Speaker 00

  He looks, it's crazy that that dude started his career at featherweight.

• 43:48Speaker 01

  Really?

• 43:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:50Speaker 01

  Well...

• 43:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, he was a featherweight. I think, I think Akeem Dawadu stopped him.

• 43:56Speaker 01

  He looked bigger than Joaquin.

• 43:58Speaker 00

  He did.

• 43:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, he did. He's big. And, you know, he looks like a real welterweight. Well, until you look at guys like Michael Morales and you're like, okay. Like, what's that? What is this size?

• 44:09Speaker 01

  He's not, he's not the mean. He's like a special case. He's just like, he is the perfect example of weaponized physique.

• 44:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:18Speaker 01

  Like, he's just, he's young, he's hungry, he's, he's a genetic freak. You can see it. He makes the sacrifices to get to the weight division. He likes to fight. He can bang, he can wrestle, he can, you know what I mean? He just, he's just there to scrap. It's a, it's an ugly fight.

• 44:34Speaker 00

  And he's the biggest outlier in terms of weight. In terms of size. Well, another one was Ateba Gautier. He's another one that weighs 230. 231 was what he weighed before he started his weight cut. And he got down to 185. But he fought Roman Kopylov, and Kopylov stopped him in the first round.

• 44:53Speaker 01

  Kopylov's got good hands.

• 44:54Speaker 00

  Fucking good, dude. He's, he's slick. Jack Slack, who's a, a great MMA analyst on Instagram and YouTube and all that too. He did a great breakdown of the, the positioning and, you know, how Roman Kopylov was leading him into it and setting up shots and set up that left hook. There's a few guys who've done some great breakdowns, but it's so skillful, man.

• 45:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:16Speaker 00

  And that was like a good example of like a super powerhouse, enormous guy who's gigantic for the weight class, just gets pieced up by a guy who's just slicker.

• 45:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then, Kopylov's not like a physically intimidating dude.

• 45:29Speaker 00

  Right.

• 45:29Speaker 01

  Like, he kinda looks like a desk jockey.

• 45:32Speaker 00

  I know, except for his nose. His nose looks like he had a fight with a bear.

• 45:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, a desk jockey that visits the bar overnight.

• 45:39Speaker 00

  Bro, his nose is destroyed. But I mean, that's just, that's skills.

• 45:44Speaker 01

  It was that fight with, um, with Costa that, I saw Costa and I was like, Costa's found his feet.

• 45:51Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm, yes.

• 45:52Speaker 01

  Like, he was just working that body. He's pieced him up, such a good...

• 45:56Speaker 00

  When Costa is on, he's a motherfucker. I think he went through a dark time after the Izzy fight. I think the pressure of fighting for the title, I'm just speculating, overwhelmed him. Obviously, he had some injuries too because he had red suction marks all over his calf, which is a real bad thing to go into the octagon with. I mean, put some makeup on that shit. Cause Izzy sees that, he's gonna immediately kick that spot.

• 46:21Speaker 01

  Cause Izzy's a smart guy.

• 46:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, he's gonna go, oh, you got a problem with your calf. Like, nobody gets the suction marks on the calf. And he just got pieced up so bad in that fight and stopped. And then Izzy dry-humped him, which was hilarious. And after that, I think he was mind-fucked for a while.

• 46:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was hilarious, but it was also, oh dude, this is so dirty.

• 46:41Speaker 00

  So dirty.

• 46:42Speaker 01

  So dirty, it's like, this, this, it was cold, man.

• 46:47Speaker 00

  Cold-blooded.

• 46:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, but like, too cold. I can't, I can't be bad, I can't BM that, that much. Like, that's crazy. And, like, Izzy's had a couple of good ones. Like, the Pereira, when he knocked out Pereira that second time?

• 47:00Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, man.

• 47:01Speaker 01

  And then the Arreth, that's gotta be one of the coolest.

• 47:03Speaker 00

  One of the, I think the greatest fight celebration of all time.

• 47:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:08Speaker 00

  Especially when you consider what just happened. That that dude had knocked him out two fights in a row.

• 47:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:13Speaker 00

  Two fights in a row, and then he finally got him in a fight where he was getting fucked up. His leg was getting fucked up.

• 47:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, he was not winning.

• 47:21Speaker 00

  His calf was getting destroyed. He's like, this motherfucker already got me. He's like, I was thinking to myself, damn, this motherfucker already got my leg.

• 47:27Speaker 01

  He did, he did that thing where he was wearing that leash for the, for the, for the whole kit. Remember before the interviews? He had that leash on him.

• 47:35Speaker 00

  Did he really?

• 47:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, dude. And then, and then he took it off just before he fought, like...

• 47:41Speaker 00

  Oh, that's, oh, he's off the leash?

• 47:43Speaker 01

  He's such a weeb sometimes. I love the guy now. Like, we're good friends, but he's a weeb sometimes.

• 47:47Speaker 00

  What was it like losing to him by knockout? And then coming back and taking him to the limit? Cause we were talking about this last night. Your second fight, was it a split decision?

• 48:00Speaker 01

  I'm not sure. I'm not too sure.

• 48:01Speaker 00

  It was a very close fight.

• 48:03Speaker 01

  It was very close.

• 48:04Speaker 00

  It was a very close fight.

• 48:05Speaker 01

  I feel like if they scored takedowns like they used to back, back in the day, I might've got my hand raised, but...

• 48:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, takedowns don't mean as much anymore unless you do something with them.

• 48:16Speaker 01

  You can win off your back if you, if the guy on top doesn't do anything.

• 48:19Speaker 00

  That's how Boss Rootin' won the world title. When he beat Kevin Randleman. Kevin Randleman took him down, but Boss was fucking him up from his back. Just elbowing him, blasting him from his back. It was very controversial because everybody's like, no, the guy on top, he's winning.

• 48:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 48:33Speaker 00

  But Boss Rootin' was doing mad damage from the bottom.

• 48:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:38Speaker 01

  It's and you also see like some guys can generate like what about when Holland knocked out Jacare off the back?

• 48:43Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 48:44Speaker 01

  That was wild.

• 48:45Speaker 00

  Reached up and hit him with the fucking right hook.

• 48:47Speaker 01

  Like, how? How do you get generate enough power?

• 48:49Speaker 00

  I know.

• 48:52Speaker 01

  Every time I'm on my back and I'm trying to fight up, I get fed.

• 48:55Speaker 00

  I think.

• 48:57Speaker 01

  I get fed and then I gas and then then that's where I'm staying for the next four minutes or whatever.

• 49:02Speaker 00

  I've seen someone else knock someone out from their back too with a hook. God, I forget who it was, but he was in, he was on top of someone or or someone was on top of him. Uh, I don't remember if it's his guard or if he was mounted and he throws a right hook and the guy just like sinks and falls on top of him like it is possible.

• 49:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've seen.

• 49:23Speaker 00

  Weird things are possible.

• 49:25Speaker 01

  That's why everyone loves this sport is because crazy stuff happens.

• 49:30Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 49:31Speaker 01

  Like it is just, it is just a melting pot of athletes.

• 49:34Speaker 00

  Like when Sean Sharoff just knocked out Gable Stevenson. Like in the first round with the first punch, like a twenty four hundred to one underdog.

• 49:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:43Speaker 00

  Minus twenty four hundred underdog.

• 49:45Speaker 01

  That's crazy.

• 49:46Speaker 00

  Crazy.

• 49:47Speaker 01

  Like, and you know there were punters that put ten bucks on, like just threw ten bucks on.

• 49:52Speaker 00

  A hundred percent.

• 49:53Speaker 01

  And they're just laughing, absolutely. He made a lot of people's days, but.

• 49:57Speaker 00

  Minus twenty four hundred is crazy and then he loses in eleven seconds.

• 50:00Speaker 01

  I was, I was thinking after I saw him fight the fight before, like he was a bit reckless with his ability to go in, like in, and especially in such like the big boys division.

• 50:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:12Speaker 01

  Like, everyone's got touch of death there.

• 50:14Speaker 00

  Well, he's also a guy who I know he is a heavyweight. He, I know he weighs like two forty or whatever he weighs, but you look at him and you're like, that guy can make two oh five, like one hundred percent. Two oh five is not outside of his wheelhouse.

• 50:27Speaker 01

  You don't think? Cause his, his, his legs.

• 50:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, this is Kevin.

• 50:31Speaker 03

  This was also a hook. It's the only one I can find. He's talking to him while it's happening.

• 50:34Speaker 00

  Always. He's always talking to people.

• 50:36Speaker 03

  He's the one saying, I had this dream when I was seventeen and then throws a hook and knocks him out.

• 50:40Speaker 00

  Is that what he said? I had a dream when I was seventeen?

• 50:42Speaker 03

  I'll still can hear it.

• 50:43Speaker 00

  Is it on right now?

• 50:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, you can hear it.

• 50:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, let me hear it. Put the headphones on. He said, that was nice.

• 50:51Speaker 03

  He's telling him it's nice.

• 50:52Speaker 00

  I had a dream about this. I was probably like seventeen. Jacare is, he was already badly hurt then.

• 51:13Speaker 03

  That's the only one I could find when I was looking at him from the back.

• 51:19Speaker 00

  Crazy. It was the first punch had him fucked up.

• 51:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, he and he didn't recover because he was, he was there for, for a minute.

• 51:25Speaker 00

  Just kinda hanging up, hurt him bad.

• 51:27Speaker 01

  But then, then the, the rest of it was terrible to watch.

• 51:30Speaker 00

  Well, he said to Joaquin Buckley, he goes, you got a booger on your nose and then he knocked him out. He's like, hey, man, you got a booger on your nose and then, he hits him with a straight right, knocks him out.

• 51:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I don't know what I'd do if someone was talking that much to me in a fight.

• 51:45Speaker 00

  Well, Frank Shamrock had a fight with Nick Diaz in Strikeforce. And he said after the fight, he goes, it's so fucked up because this guy is talking shit to you and you're like, I can't believe he's doing this. I can't believe he's talking shit to me because he's, he's Frank Shamrock. He's a legend. He was former UFC champion, like a real pioneer in terms of like a complete martial artist. He was like one of the very first, like.

• 52:06Speaker 01

  Started with boots on.

• 52:08Speaker 00

  Yeah. Man, I mean, he did the pancray style when you're open slaps. I mean, he was a real pioneer. So for him and Nick Diaz is like, what bitch, what bitch, what you gonna do bitch? He's just popping him and talking to him there. You don't get to breathe because he's not hitting you full blast. He like, here, put some, put some.

• 52:26Speaker 01

  I love how he used to put, put his hands down by his, by his hips.

• 52:29Speaker 00

  He's just talking to him constantly.

• 52:33Speaker 01

  I, I've always been the biggest fan of his style.

• 52:38Speaker 00

  Oh, Nick has a crazy style.

• 52:40Speaker 01

  It just looks so much fun.

• 52:44Speaker 00

  It looks fun. He's relaxed, like even while he's doing this, he's never straining. Like all of his punches are like fifty percent. Everything's fifty percent, but because of that, he can throw them for days, for days.

• 52:56Speaker 01

  And then, and then he gets to that point where he's not even breathing and he just, he's just beating on a gassed guy.

• 53:03Speaker 00

  Yes. You know what my favorite, my favorite fight of him ever is? Paul Semtex Daley.

• 53:08Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah?

• 53:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, in Strikeforce. For Semtex had maybe the craziest power in the history of the division. Semtex would just put people into orbit. He had like crazy knockouts and these dudes just went to war and he dropped Nick a couple of times, but Nick brought him into a pace where he was gonna have to sprint for the entire five minutes. And by the end of like three minutes in, you see he's like, he's like, I can't do this anymore. And then Nick just overwhelms him and stops him.

• 53:36Speaker 01

  Lactic overload.

• 53:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, see if you can find that.

• 53:38Speaker 01

  He, he's fought, he had some, he had some wars in Strikeforce.

• 53:42Speaker 00

  So bring us up, bring us up earlier in the fight.

• 53:44Speaker 03

  They were wrestling a little bit of his.

• 53:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, but in the beginning, it's like you see the power of Semtex, like crazy left hook, left hook and a left uppercut would just put people into orbit, just terrifying power and.

• 53:57Speaker 01

  He is one of those guys with power. As we were saying, but like you're, like you're born with it. I swear you're born with it.

• 54:02Speaker 00

  Hundred percent.

• 54:03Speaker 01

  It's not like he's doing a gym workout, like explosive, this routine to get power like that.

• 54:08Speaker 00

  You can certainly enhance your power, but I think the type of power that like Paul Daley has or, you know, like a Thomas Hitman's Hearn type power or Deontay Wilder, he's the best example. You're just born with that. That's, you, you got a gift from God. God gave you a gift to put people into orbit and this fight just is just this crazy example of his cardio. You know, Nick Diaz's swam back from Alcatraz, I think seven times, it might be more now.

• 54:37Speaker 01

  I remember seeing that, like he's really big, even during camps, like really big in a triathlon.

• 54:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:43Speaker 01

  Like that's why, how he stays fit, like, cause you, you can't, you can't get this or sustain this level of cardio unless cardio is your lifestyle.

• 54:50Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 54:51Speaker 01

  Like this is, this, this, at this point, cardio is your hobby.

• 54:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's a different thing, right?

• 54:55Speaker 01

  Just like Marab.

• 54:56Speaker 00

  So he's not trying to blitz people ever. He's not trying to hit you with one big bomb and trying to, he's just cooking you.

• 55:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:04Speaker 00

  And he's, he's bringing you up to a pace that he knows that you can't sustain, but he does every day.

• 55:08Speaker 01

  Do you reckon that's what burnt him out? Cause I swear, it's gotta be like, if, if every fight you turn up and you're like, all right, four rounds to go before, before I got you, like you know, you got twenty minutes of cooking a guy, you know what I mean?

• 55:21Speaker 00

  Well, it could be that, but it's also, you gotta take into consideration all the years that he's been fighting. So I've called Nick's first fight in the UFC in nineteen nine, no, two thousand and one, I think? Two thousand and one, I'm pretty sure it was two thousand and one. I'm pretty sure that was the first time I worked for the UFC in the new era. You know, it was ninety seven, I worked for the old era before Zuffa.

• 55:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:48Speaker 00

  And then it was him versus Robbie Lawler and he was like twenty years old.

• 55:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was so good, such a, he had, he had some wars, he just got dropped there so bad.

• 55:58Speaker 00

  It was two thousand and three. Okay, that's twenty three years ago.

• 56:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:04Speaker 00

  That's crazy. That is a long time to be getting punched in the head.

• 56:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:09Speaker 00

  And I think that is a giant factor.

• 56:10Speaker 01

  Especially with his style. His style was very much in your face. He's gonna eat a couple, but he's gonna give you four for every, every one you land.

• 56:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, and he did a lot of sparring with, what's that?

• 56:20Speaker 03

  I take that back. That was just the UFC. He did, uh, his first fight was August thirty first, two thousand and one, uh, for IFC Warriors.

• 56:29Speaker 00

  And was two thousand and three, what event was that?

• 56:33Speaker 03

  Uh, Jeremy Jackson.

• 56:35Speaker 00

  No, what was the number? UFC?

• 56:37Speaker 03

  Weird, that's.

• 56:38Speaker 00

  Does it say it? I would have swore it was.

• 56:42Speaker 03

  UFC forty four.

• 56:43Speaker 00

  UFC forty four and what?

• 56:45Speaker 03

  July nineteenth, two thousand, or sorry, September twenty sixth, two thousand and three.

• 56:49Speaker 00

  Okay, so that's his, and that's Robbie Lawler?

• 56:51Speaker 03

  No, Jeremy Jackson.

• 56:53Speaker 00

  That was his first one?

• 56:54Speaker 03

  Robbie Lawler was his next one, two thousand and four.

• 56:55Speaker 00

  Oh, interesting. So Jeremy Jackson was a guy who stopped him earlier in his career. Who was a really good boxer. Yeah, there, this is the end of it. Paul just, he just couldn't take it anymore and the pace is just fucking insane.

• 57:09Speaker 01

  Cause it doesn't stop. It doesn't slow down.

• 57:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I think, you know, at a certain point in time, everybody's time is up and if you've been sparring with pro boxers for years and sparring hard for years and training hard and fighting and getting in these crazy wars.

• 57:24Speaker 01

  The type of fights, yeah, the type of fights that you're in.

• 57:27Speaker 00

  Remember when he fought Anderson Silva and he was getting bored, so he just laid down and put his hands on his head like this?

• 57:33Speaker 01

  Only, only he could do that.

• 57:35Speaker 00

  It was awesome. It was amazing. I mean, it was like, even though he lost the fight, I was, I was like, that was fucking great. It was so entertaining.

• 57:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. It's like, cause he, he knew Anderson just wanted to counter-strike and just walk back on the fence. So he just didn't engage.

• 57:51Speaker 00

  Right.

• 57:51Speaker 01

  And then, then nothing was happening.

• 57:53Speaker 00

  I know. There was a few guys who figured that out with Anderson.

• 57:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:57Speaker 00

  That if you don't do anything, he doesn't do anything.

• 57:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 57:59Speaker 00

  Which is crazy.

• 58:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, cause, cause he, during his prime, he was running through people. Before people worked it out, before there was like a ton of tape on him, before they, they found that. And before also Anderson's age and the amount of fights he had caught up with him, he was untouchable.

• 58:14Speaker 00

  Untouchable. Anderson in his prime was in the matrix. He was doing things to people where you're like, this is, how is he doing it? And it was like, he'd pull these spectacular techniques out of nowhere, like V-tor, that front kick to the face. It was just like, my lord. He was in the matrix. He just saw things that other people couldn't see. There was a time, and I always say that you have to look at elite fighters in their absolute prime. You can't look at them like BJ Penn later, and he's my best example of that. You can't look at the BJ Penn Frankie Edgar fight and say that's BJ Penn. No, you gotta look at, I mean, later in his career, you know? You gotta look at BJ Penn when he fought Sean Church, Joe Daddy Stevenson. BJ Penn when he was in his prime, you gotta look at that.

• 58:59Speaker 00

  And I feel like that's the same thing with Anderson. Don't look at him past the broken leg. Look at him before that, when he was just starching everybody.

• 59:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:06Speaker 00

  Look at him before that, when no one could even touch him.

• 59:08Speaker 01

  And making it look easy.

• 59:10Speaker 00

  Easy.

• 59:10Speaker 01

  Like championship fights, like finishing people easily.

• 59:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, and having fun.

• 59:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:16Speaker 00

  Like having, the Forrest Griffin fight, like he was having a good time.

• 59:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like, that was almost dirty too.

• 59:21Speaker 00

  That was dirty.

• 59:23Speaker 01

  That was another dirty moment. Some, some guys are just cold-blooded, man.

• 59:28Speaker 00

  Just stepped back and popped him with the right hand.

• 59:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, and just like, like kinda, kinda mockingly.

• 59:34Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 59:34Speaker 01

  Like dancing around. Didn't he get told off once? Cause he was, he was mucking around that much?

• 59:39Speaker 00

  That was the Damian Maia fight.

• 59:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 59:41Speaker 00

  Damian Maia fight, well, I think there's another factor in that fight. So that fight was outside in Abu Dhabi, and it was hot. And there was fucking bugs that were flying around the size of a horse.

• 59:54Speaker 01

  Was it? I didn't know that, cause I can't imagine how annoying that would be.

• 59:58Speaker 00

  It was weird. You guys, you had these weird Middle Eastern bugs, like that you never saw before, flying around like, whoa, look at the size of that thing. I was like, this is crazy. And it was outside. So Anderson comes out hot in the first round, like putting it to Maia, trying to put Maia away. But he doesn't wind up putting him away.

• 1:00:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:18Speaker 00

  And so I think he got really fucking tired. And I think he just decided to coast. And then Maia was like kinda chasing after him, and he was just getting out of the way and just doing enough to win a decision.

• 1:00:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:27Speaker 00

  And Dana White was pissed.

• 1:00:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:29Speaker 00

  They, they, they got real, because this is like a big showcase fight. They're fighting, first of all, even though the White House card was awesome, it was a lot of fun, it was a great night. Don't have fights outside. A world championship fight should be fought in a controlled environment. It should be an air-conditioned building, it should be all, it should be a controlled environment that everyone fights in a world championship fight in the same way.

• 1:00:55Speaker 01

  It's a control.

• 1:00:56Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:00:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:00:57Speaker 01

  What were, what were some variables, I wasn't there, you were, you were, what are some variables we didn't see?

• 1:01:03Speaker 00

  Well, one of them was humidity, and Gagey talked about that. So there was thunderstorms all around us.

• 1:01:08Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:01:08Speaker 00

  The fight got delayed, yes. The, the fights got delayed, and they thought they were gonna get delayed way later, till like 10:30 PM. But it wound up passing over us, like literally like miraculously, like literally circled around, like, they might've done something. Start the engine, get the thing in the sky. He, he might've done something, but it's a good time to do something.

• 1:01:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, if you are.

• 1:01:32Speaker 00

  If you really can manipulate the weather, that would be a good time. So there was that, and Justin said that in the first round, he felt it. He's like, you could feel the air was heavy.

• 1:01:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:42Speaker 00

  That's a factor. It wasn't that hot, like when they're fighting is in the seventies, I believe. But seventies with humidity, when you're going at it?

• 1:01:50Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:01:51Speaker 00

  That's not how it's supposed to be. Air-conditioned environment should be the same way for every fight. And that Abu Dhabi fight, it was not, it was hot. I remember sweating in my shirt and we were outside. And I was like, these boys must be fucking tired. This episode is brought to you by RAF, Real American Freestyle Wrestling, exclusively on Fox Nation. Every month, you get every feud, every match, every belt. If you love UFC, wrestling is where it all began. And now RAF heads to Sin City for another massive night of action. RAF 14, and this one is all attitude.

• 1:02:31Speaker 00

  RAF's bad boys, Armon Sarukyan and Dylan Danis, step onto the mat to find out who's the baddest. Plus, a loaded card featuring the world's best wrestlers and some of the biggest names in combat sports. No cages, no gloves, no excuses, just wrestling at its best. RAF 14, live from Las Vegas, Friday, October 23rd, streaming exclusively on Fox Nation. Go to FoxNation.com and sign up today.

• 1:03:01Speaker 01

  I'm like, I'm like a, I'm like a heavy sweater, like a heavy, heavy sweater, like. So whenever I do like a hard session, like if, if I have a big sparring day, and do some rounds, and it's hot, cause in Australia, humidity's, we live in it, right?

• 1:03:15Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:03:16Speaker 01

  Um, if it's like a hot day and it's humid, by the second round, I'll be dehydrated.

• 1:03:22Speaker 00

  That's crazy.

• 1:03:24Speaker 01

  I'll be cooked, like cooked.

• 1:03:26Speaker 00

  You know, Gagey doesn't drink water when he trains.

• 1:03:28Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:03:29Speaker 00

  Yeah. He won't drink any water until after his training session's over.

• 1:03:33Speaker 01

  Why?

• 1:03:35Speaker 00

  He thinks it toughens him up. That's just how he's always done it.

• 1:03:39Speaker 01

  He is super tough.

• 1:03:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's an adorable motherfucker.

• 1:03:44Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't know if that'll work for me. Like, if I stop drinking water, will it make me tougher?

• 1:03:51Speaker 01

  Or will I just die?

• 1:03:53Speaker 00

  I don't know if, but it's like what we were talking about earlier, that this is balance.

• 1:03:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:58Speaker 00

  Between like drinking and smoking and having fun and being like fucking a marine.

• 1:04:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:04:03Speaker 00

  I don't know, man.

• 1:04:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. Fighters, what does a special beast say? Like special animals, like?

• 1:04:09Speaker 00

  It's almost like I wish there was a Marvin Hagler in MMA at the same time there's a Carlos Pratess. So let's see which way works best.

• 1:04:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:04:18Speaker 00

  You know, you got two guys that are special athletes, but one of them gets up at five o'clock in the morning and screaming war and running up sand dunes with combat boots on in the middle of the winter, in Cape Cod. That's Marvin Hagler. And he has Carlos Pratess, he's fucking dancing, he's drinking, he's got a Marlboro. And he's just going in there and fucking tuning people up. I don't know.

• 1:04:39Speaker 01

  Like, and easily. That last fight was rough to watch.

• 1:04:43Speaker 00

  The Jack Del Amadaleena fight?

• 1:04:44Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. As a, as a patriotic Australian, sitting there and watching that fight was rough.

• 1:04:50Speaker 00

  Well, as a fan of Jack's, it's hard to watch.

• 1:04:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:53Speaker 00

  He's a great guy and he's an elite fighter, but my goodness, what Pratess did to him.

• 1:04:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:59Speaker 00

  Like you said it best, it was dirty.

• 1:05:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:01Speaker 00

  It was just dirty.

• 1:05:02Speaker 01

  It was cold. He was just, he was like an executioner at that point.

• 1:05:06Speaker 00

  He's got that step in knee to the left side, or from his left side into the liver. God, that's so nasty. He does that so well. He's giving you all these different reads.

• 1:05:17Speaker 01

  And he gets so much range on it.

• 1:05:18Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:05:19Speaker 01

  Like, it's, he, he, he's like, he fights almost in your face, but he's not there.

• 1:05:24Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:05:25Speaker 01

  He's not there.

• 1:05:25Speaker 00

  And you go to come to him and he just leans back and he's gone.

• 1:05:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, and pops you from across the cage. And then calf kicks you on the way out.

• 1:05:33Speaker 00

  DC said it best, we were talking about this last night, DC said he's built like a mosquito.

• 1:05:39Speaker 01

  Just all legs.

• 1:05:40Speaker 00

  Like an elite killer mosquito. Just all limbs, long limbs, but the power.

• 1:05:46Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:05:47Speaker 00

  The Leon Edwards left hand, my goodness.

• 1:05:49Speaker 01

  That left him cold.

• 1:05:50Speaker 00

  Woo. And the way he covered distance with that shot too. He's so good, man.

• 1:05:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, he is. And he's so, so exciting to watch. Just like, just like Hoofy.

• 1:06:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:01Speaker 01

  Hoofy, he's like, I know he lost to Armin, but did you see the one shot he threw from across the cage? Like he covered like two meters.

• 1:06:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:08Speaker 01

  Hit him in the eye, his eye blew up straight away. It was so like.

• 1:06:12Speaker 00

  No, Hoofy's dangerous. He's dangerous and long. It's just like, Armin had the perfect strategy. The perfect strategy, just get him up against the cage, land elbows.

• 1:06:21Speaker 01

  Make it.

• 1:06:22Speaker 00

  And the way he like went for the single, you know, and then, you know, he's like defending his head straight up in the air, boom. Catch him with, caught him with one, and he was like out cold, and he held him up to hit him with the second one.

• 1:06:34Speaker 01

  Armin's, Armin's a beast.

• 1:06:36Speaker 00

  And rich.

• 1:06:36Speaker 01

  I, I hate that.

• 1:06:38Speaker 00

  No sense. Grew up really rich.

• 1:06:42Speaker 01

  I don't know why, like he's just, he's, he's, my, my life, my life sport, my lifeblood on this earth for my family, is his hobby. And then, and then it annoys me. He's like, he just turns up at the highest level to play and.

• 1:07:01Speaker 00

  And he doesn't have to.

• 1:07:02Speaker 01

  It kills me.

• 1:07:03Speaker 00

  And you, there's just always this, this narrative that we were told, that like, rich people can't fight. The rich guy's son is never gonna be the toughest guy. It's always the poor guys.

• 1:07:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, we, yeah.

• 1:07:13Speaker 00

  He fights like he's poor. That's what's crazy. He fights like he grew up in the ghetto.

• 1:07:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, or he, he fights like he grew up a super soldier.

• 1:07:22Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:07:23Speaker 01

  You know, maybe, maybe he's on the other side of the spectrum, maybe.

• 1:07:25Speaker 00

  Well, maybe, yeah, he got really good training very early on.

• 1:07:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:30Speaker 00

  And, but also, the thing is, it's like in him. He loves it.

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:07:34Speaker 00

  There's no way you could have the kinda money that that guy has and fight that way unless you really love it.

• 1:07:41Speaker 01

  And get through a camp.

• 1:07:43Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:07:43Speaker 01

  Like, there are too many moments during camp, I'm like, F this, I need this app to go well. I'm like halfway there. It's just.

• 1:07:57Speaker 00

  Well, it's also, it's like, he does those Sam Calavita workouts. Do you know those? Do you know what I'm talking about? Okay. So there's this guy who TJ Dillashaw credits with a lot of his strength and conditioning and the reason why he had such a crazy gas tank. And Aaron Pico, he trains with him. Hamzat trains with him. He started, Hamzat started training with him fairly recently. But Sam Calavita, he comes from a cycling background and, you know, like real scientific approach to cardio. And these guys do these fucking insane cardio, strength and conditioning workouts in a garage in California. So you've got all these elite fighters in this, you know, middle-class residential neighborhood. Guy fucking lifts up his garage door and you've got these assassins on your fucking driveway

• 1:08:41Speaker 00

  doing, doing like whipping chains and shit and doing all these crazy medicine ball workouts. See if you can find some of that. They call it the garage. It's just what it's called, the garage. And this garage is just filled with strength and cardio equipment. So they're all talking about it here.

• 1:08:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:00Speaker 00

  Let me see if you can show some of the workouts. Is he gonna show it?

• 1:09:04Speaker 01

  These guys are all cardio machines.

• 1:09:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, and it's all in his, okay, they're not, that's not good. But I know from Armin's YouTube channel, he had a bunch of it where he was training with Hamzat at, at Calavita's place.

• 1:09:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:09:18Speaker 00

  Along with a bunch of, Juan Archuleta was there, a bunch of like elite MMA fighters are there training. And it looks like hell. It looks like just complete holy hell. Cub Swanson had an interesting take on it though. Cause Cub worked out there too. And he said he feels like he had some of his worst performances when he did his cardio sessions there. And he thinks because he just takes too much out of you. He goes, the guy just breaks you down too much. He goes, there's like a fine line and I think he passes that line.

• 1:09:52Speaker 01

  So these things, just in the street.

• 1:09:54Speaker 00

  I think the thing is though, if you're just doing a cardio-based sport like cycling, you know, obviously it's power and there's some technique to it, but it's not the same sort of give and take, completely open-ended, you know, improv, improvising thing that MMA is. So you can't just have cardio. You also have, you have to have the ability to have all of those movements, just razor-sharp honed. All your skills razor-sharp. And sometimes when you're broken down from strength and conditioning, when you go to do your skills, your skills feel sloppier. They don't feel the same way.

• 1:10:36Speaker 00

  You know, like I, I know, like when I used to work out at Carlson Gracie's place, one of the things that I didn't like, no disrespect, but one of the things that I didn't like is they put you through this grueling strength and conditioning thing before you would do your skills. And I was like, hmm, why would you want to be exhausted when you're learning something? I think it's a good thing if you're just trying to get in shape and have a real hard workout and yeah, you should know what it feels like to wrestle tired. But also, shouldn't you learn all this stuff when you're fresh?

• 1:11:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. Cause the idea is not to gas, right? And that comes from efficiency.

• 1:11:10Speaker 00

  Yes. I think if you're gonna do strength and conditioning like that, it should be after your skill work. This is my personal opinion. I think skill work should be done when you're not tired.

• 1:11:21Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 1:11:22Speaker 00

  You should learn all those sharp movements, all the counters, all the things. It should be sharp. If you're exhausted and your abs are fucking killing you and your neck is stiff and you're like, it's like you're a little more labored with stuff. You, you, you don't, you don't have the confidence and you don't have the like the, the neural pathways of the sharpness. You know how sometimes you learn a move and then you get it and you finally get it? And then you're hitting pads or something, you're just, you just get it. It's like it's there. And now it's in your head like, oh, I know that path. I know that path. If all of a sudden that path gets sloppy, then you start thinking, do I know it? Do I know it the way I think I know it? Can I land this at will?

• 1:12:04Speaker 00

  If I see the opening, can I go or will be I, will I be a fraction of a second slow? Will I be a little off?

• 1:12:10Speaker 01

  And you don't want, like if you go into these sessions tired, you don't want to get used to being tired. I know, I know, they say you gotta train for when you're tired, but you don't want to get used to being tired.

• 1:12:21Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:12:22Speaker 01

  So I feel like that starts you off at like a funny level. You know, and, and like another thing is.

• 1:12:27Speaker 00

  What did you just pull up there, Jamie?

• 1:12:29Speaker 03

  I just asked perplexed if there's any benefits to hard or athletic training, hard cardio before skill work and.

• 1:12:35Speaker 00

  And it says, yes. Let me see that. Let me see what it says. Scroll. Yes, there can be benefits, but it depends on whether you're trying to learn a skill or execute and establish one under fatigue. Yeah, that's true. But the thing is you're always learning. That's the thing about like technique in terms of MMA. It's like so comprehensive. Hard cardio is an automatically better preparation for skill work. Fatigue commonly reduces the quality of a sport-specific technique. That's exactly what we're talking about.

• 1:12:58Speaker 01

  And your mental focus though, that's, that's not limitless. Like it's, if I, if I, everyone's done a cardio session where it's so hard, you start to, like your, your own brain starts to try to escape on you. And you know, you, you find it hard to be in the moment where you are. Because you, you just, you're tired. You're tired. If you, you take, you take that into a skill session, you're not gonna, I, I personally, I can't, I can't work under like that because.

• 1:13:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, you, I think skill is for fresh people. And, and I think there's, there's a real benefit to like flow rolling. There's a real benefit to like, like shadow sparring where you're just touching and moving and it's just, you're just building pathways in your mind. But then there's also like a giant benefit to just breaking down the machine and pushing the fucking machine to its red line and forcing it to recover and build a stronger base. And it's a balance though.

• 1:13:55Speaker 01

  I don't think, like whilst it has a place, and I do it as well. I use the assault bikes and, and treadmills and everything else. I, I think though, if you want to break yourself doing something, it needs to be in the craft you're doing. Like if you want to get fitter wrestling, you have to wrestle. You have to be put in those positions. If you want to see where your skills take you under fatigue, you have to wrestle to fatigue. You have to grapple to fatigue. You know, like.

• 1:14:19Speaker 00

  Well, that's GSP's approach.

• 1:14:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:21Speaker 00

  Later in his career. Later in his career, he essentially abandoned all the strength and conditioning and just did sport-specific training. Just did hard rounds in the bag, hard round sparring, hard rounds drilling.

• 1:14:32Speaker 01

  Cause that, that's also what makes your body hard. Like you need to, you need to be used to contact and stuff. There's been heaps of camps where I've like torn a calf muscle. So I've done like the back end of it, just on like treadmills and assault, like treadmills, Concept 2s, that sort of stuff, not treadmills, sorry, Concept 2s, assault bikes. Too many ski ups, too many camps have ended this way. And it just takes a mental toll on you, having to push yourself to red line.

• 1:15:00Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:15:01Speaker 01

  In those sessions.

• 1:16:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. Scams have gotten smarter because criminals use AI to flood you with fake texts, emails, and phone calls that are designed to be more convincing than ever. One wrong click could put your personal information and your identity at risk. So protect yourself with LifeLock. LifeLock helps detect and alert you to threats. And if your identity is stolen, LifeLock will step in to fix it, guaranteed or your money back. Dedicated US-based identity restoration specialists will work with you until your identity is restored, backed by the million-dollar protection package with up to $3 million in coverage for eligible losses and expenses.

• 1:16:43Speaker 00

  Visit lifelock.com and save up to 30% your first year with the promo code JRE. That's promo code JRE or go to lifelock.com/jre for 30% off. Terms apply. It's just, well, you know, that brings me to BJ Penn's prime. Cause one of the things that I've talked about a bunch of times was he didn't really do much sport-specific training in his prime for, for camps. He would do the camps with Mar Barinovich. And Mar Barinovich, who was a, he's, his philosophy was you already know how to fight. What we're gonna do is give you the most insane gas tank. And then you're gonna go in there free as a bird because you're never gonna think about cardio. You're just gonna be able to perform.

• 1:17:27Speaker 00

  And so it was all plyometrics. Like crazy plyometrics and all these weird box jumps and all this different shit. And every day just getting broken down, broken down every day. But he would show up shredded and just, just looking like an absolute demon. And he had been doing very little in terms of like sparring, very little mitt training. And the, the philosophy was you already know how to fight. Like take that thought and just throw it into this six, eight-week camp of insane cardio and plyometrics.

• 1:18:01Speaker 01

  And I think that's where I've kind of pushed my own training in this, in, in, in light heavyweight and in the later end of my career. It's just, it's like being happy, enjoying the process. Cause I, I, by this stage, I know how to fight or I'm in trouble.

• 1:18:17Speaker 01

  Either I got it by now or I'm not gonna get it. So it's, it's like, we don't need to work skills as much as review, revise and just practice. So it looks like I do a lot of mitt work. I do a lot of like light sparring movement, shadow sparring sort of work. Do a lot of, do a lot of rounds on, in, in the gi and, and different positional work.

• 1:18:40Speaker 00

  Really? What is the benefit you think in the gi? For MMA training?

• 1:18:46Speaker 01

  Uh, it's, if you wanna learn jiu-jitsu, it's, I'm a big believer in, in, in gi. I'm a big believer in gi. It's uh, obviously it's different, but you can, a lot of gi guys can transition, can transition from gi to no gi.

• 1:18:59Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:18:59Speaker 01

  It's very hard the other way around.

• 1:19:01Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:19:02Speaker 01

  You know, so it's, and I think Damian Ma was a big believer in, in, in gi work.

• 1:19:07Speaker 00

  Wow, how the Brazilians are.

• 1:19:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:08Speaker 00

  It's a religion.

• 1:19:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:10Speaker 00

  They, they, the gi, jiu-jitsu is all about the gi, my friend. You need the gi.

• 1:19:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:15Speaker 00

  Don't abandon the gi. Like, people got real mad. I don't know, you weren't around back then, the, the early days of gi, no gi, right? The early days. Like, when, when did you start training?

• 1:19:24Speaker 01

  Um, well, it would've been two thousand, like for MMA?

• 1:19:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:19:30Speaker 01

  It would've been like two thousand fifteen?

• 1:19:32Speaker 00

  Right. So in like two thousand one, two thousand two, two thousand-ish, was when people started doing no gi. And a lot of the Brazilians did not like it.

• 1:19:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, no.

• 1:19:44Speaker 00

  They, they.

• 1:19:45Speaker 01

  There's a lot that still don't like it.

• 1:19:46Speaker 00

  A little loyalty to the gi that was crazy. So when Eddie Bravo branched off and started Tenth Planet, which was two thousand and three, it was very controversial.

• 1:19:56Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:19:56Speaker 00

  Like, what is this guy? This guy abandoning the gi? It was like, it was a real problem, man. That sounds crazy now because there's so many elite Brazilians that are in no gi. They're kind of, uh, just like they abandoned the idea that leg locks are bad.

• 1:20:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:20:10Speaker 00

  If you did a leg lock back then in a tournament, even though it was legal, everybody would boo.

• 1:20:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you'll get beat up afterward, probably.

• 1:20:16Speaker 00

  Right. Heel hooks, people would be furious at you.

• 1:20:18Speaker 01

  You know what's great about the gi in terms of, in terms of like a jiu-jitsu side of things? Espe- especially like in trend, like for MMA as well, is that you can't make as many mistakes in the gi.

• 1:20:29Speaker 00

  Yes, absolutely.

• 1:20:30Speaker 01

  It makes your positioning and your decision-making so much more vital. Because, let's be honest, if you're an athletic guy, you can, you can get pretty far in no gi.

• 1:20:42Speaker 00

  You can explode out of things.

• 1:20:43Speaker 01

  You can explode out of a lot of things. I've, I've, I've jumped into beginner classes and a really strong guy will still like shove me from, from mount or from the half guard, cause I'm just not ready for him to just bench press me.

• 1:20:55Speaker 00

  Right, right, right.

• 1:20:56Speaker 01

  It's just like these crazy beginner sort of.

• 1:21:00Speaker 00

  Right, but if you're grabbing a hold of his gi, he's not doing any of that.

• 1:21:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, and you can't make mistakes. Cause if you get, if you make a mistake, you, that gets capitalized on. And you get, get into a bad position, then you're working from that bad position. Like, you're actually punished for errors. I feel like a lot more so. Uh, obviously in no gi, there's, there's plenty of that as well, especially at the highest level.

• 1:21:20Speaker 00

  I think there's definitely something to it. Um, Jean-Jacques Machado's approach was very interesting. Because, you know, Jean-Jacques was born with, uh, only a thumb on his left hand. So he has a, a right hand that's a full hand, but he was born with just a thumb. So Jean-Jacques never relied on collar chokes and, and grabbing cuffs. His technique was overhooks and underhooks. So when he went to Abu Dhabi, his technique right into no gi immediately translated. Because he was using wrestling-based holds.

• 1:21:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:50Speaker 00

  He was, a lot of it was overhooks and underhooks.

• 1:21:52Speaker 01

  Same systems.

• 1:21:52Speaker 00

  Yes, same system. So when I learned from him, I did that. I, I did his style and that, I was like, cause I'm still gonna do no gi with Eddie. So, so I was doing no gi at Tenth Planet and I was doing gi at Jean-Jacques. So I just decided to do it Jean-Jacques style. And Jean-Jacques style was like, the gi is great defensively because you have to have excellent position and you have to have good defense. You have to make sure that you're doing the right thing. Cause you're not gonna just yank yourself out of an arm bar.

• 1:22:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:22:18Speaker 00

  It's not like when you're sweaty and you could just kind of explode out of things, squirm and move real quick. You can't do any of that shit. You're trapped. So defensively, I felt it was very, but I also felt like offensively, I should just do all the things that I do no gi and ignore the gi. And just, except a clock choke. I can't pass up on a clock choke. If I get that, if I get that grip inside and I get that hand on the underarm, I can spin under. Ooh, I love that. That's, that's a ninja move, man. I love me a clock choke. But other than that, I felt like offensively, in terms of like controlling people, I was gonna ignore the gi. I was just gonna only, only use grips that were wrestling-based grips. And so that's how I.

• 1:23:00Speaker 01

  I'm very much the same and then my coach gives, like, kinda teaches that way as well. Like, all my chokes in the gi even are still just head and arm, rear, rear naked chokes. Like, just like real, the real simple ones.

• 1:23:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, the basics.

• 1:23:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:13Speaker 00

  Well, look at Marcelo Garcia. He's like my favorite example. Like Marcelo, almost all of his victories by submission came from chokes. Almost all of them. He beat Rico Rodriguez in, uh, Absolute in Abu Dhabi with a heel hook, which was crazy.

• 1:23:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:28Speaker 00

  But in all the other fights that he had, every one of those submissions, I think, was a choke. I don't think I've ever seen him get anybody in an arm bar. I'm sure he has, but I, I've never seen it.

• 1:23:40Speaker 01

  Well, chokes can't be defended.

• 1:23:42Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:23:42Speaker 01

  Right? Like, in, in a lot of, a lot of high-level guys, you'll see let their knees go, let their arms go. Like, especially in fighting, especially in MMA. How many times have you seen like an arm like bust out?

• 1:23:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:23:55Speaker 01

  Or like heel hook and the knees go.

• 1:23:56Speaker 00

  Corey Sanhagen blew his knee apart in his last fight.

• 1:24:00Speaker 01

  And that doesn't stop the fight though. If, if you're good, like, you're good.

• 1:24:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, until it's over.

• 1:24:05Speaker 01

  But choking.

• 1:24:06Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:24:07Speaker 01

  Like, you're not.

• 1:24:07Speaker 00

  You go out.

• 1:24:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're gone. That's it. It's over.

• 1:24:10Speaker 00

  That was Marcelo's approach. No kimuras. He said kimura was a strong man move. You have to be strong to pull it off.

• 1:24:15Speaker 01

  Yes, you do.

• 1:24:16Speaker 00

  So his just whole thing was just get a hold of the necks. High, high elbow guillotine, rear naked choke, anything you can do, head and arm choke. You know, whatever he could do is just get a hold of the neck, you know? Um, he had a, a crazy north-south choke. His north-south choke is excellent. Just, he just figured out how to be like a master neck sweeper.

• 1:24:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And just find those right positioning. Some guys are just good at it though. Like, same, same, just, just like MMA, there are guys that are, that are born gifted and talented for, for the craft. Like, Craig Jones is a freak.

• 1:24:46Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. He's a freak. He's a freak. But he's also a guy who loves jiu-jitsu.

• 1:24:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:24:52Speaker 00

  He loves the game and being skillful and setting traps and catching people.

• 1:24:57Speaker 01

  He just, he loves seeing the different things, what works, what doesn't work. Like, he, he has, he has, his approach to it is so intellectual, but he's good enough to be able to implement it.

• 1:25:08Speaker 00

  And he's always having a good time.

• 1:25:10Speaker 01

  Mate.

• 1:25:12Speaker 00

  That's the thing, right?

• 1:25:13Speaker 01

  He always looks like he's having a good time.

• 1:25:15Speaker 00

  A blast.

• 1:25:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:16Speaker 00

  He's the funniest fucking guy in jiu-jitsu by a long shot.

• 1:25:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:19Speaker 00

  Like, there's no one, he like, he's like a professional comedian. Like, he easily, if he retired from competing, could become a professional comic. I really believe that.

• 1:25:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:27Speaker 00

  The dude's hilarious.

• 1:25:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:29Speaker 00

  When he had that intergender fight with Gabby Garcia and he kissed her and she got mad at him.

• 1:25:37Speaker 00

  He's so silly. He's so silly. But that silliness is like a mask that covers up this assassin.

• 1:25:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:46Speaker 00

  Like, when you start training with him and, and, and do, and like, you watch him train with like elite guys and he catches them and stuff, you're like, oh, fuck, man, that's slick.

• 1:25:54Speaker 01

  It's, it's, it's like, so I've rolled with him and it's like you're drowning. It's just, you're just wondering how this ends. Like, what, what is gonna finish you with?

• 1:26:04Speaker 00

  Now, what's crazy is imagine Gordon can do that to him.

• 1:26:07Speaker 01

  Ah, that's.

• 1:26:08Speaker 00

  That's what's crazy. Well, Gordon could do that to everybody. That's what's crazy.

• 1:26:12Speaker 01

  I've thought about this. I've thought like, like, how would I go about fighting those dudes? And I'd, I'd be like, I'm doing everything in my power to not get like grabbed at all. Cause it's over. Once, once, once you get sucked into it, you can't play safe with these guys.

• 1:26:27Speaker 00

  Well, especially with Gordon. He's so good at controlling people because he doesn't have an athletic-based style at all. Like, he talks about it. He says, I'm not an athletic guy. I don't move fast. So all of my jiu-jitsu is control-based. And it's also, when he gets a hold of you, that's it.

• 1:26:42Speaker 01

  It's over. Yeah.

• 1:26:43Speaker 00

  Hickson Gracie said this to me once. It was like, the, the dopest fucking conversation I've ever had with him. I've had a few with him that are pretty cool, but we're over his house. And we're watching some fight tapes. It was me and him and his son, Crone. And we're sitting there and we're watching these, uh, these fight tapes and he's explaining what these guys are doing wrong. He was watching this like Mario Sperry fight.

• 1:27:05Speaker 01

  That'd be so cool.

• 1:27:06Speaker 00

  It was the dopest shit ever.

• 1:27:07Speaker 01

  That'd be so cool.

• 1:27:08Speaker 00

  And he said, and he was talking about how these guys are losing position. And he goes, we all started in neutral position. We all started zero. And he goes, and once I go to one, I'm not going back to zero. I'm going to two, I'm going to three, I'm going to checkmate. And it was like so intense when he was saying it. It was like, it was like, this is a fact.

• 1:27:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:30Speaker 00

  If I get you in a position, you're not getting out of it and I'm advancing to the next spot. And I'm advancing to the next spot and then checkmate. And when he was saying it, I was like, oh shit.

• 1:27:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:43Speaker 00

  It was the dopest conversation.

• 1:27:45Speaker 01

  These guys are like samurais of today.

• 1:27:47Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, man.

• 1:27:47Speaker 01

  Like, that, that mentality they have, that is, that is the, the way of the warrior.

• 1:27:52Speaker 00

  Well, Hickson was a true pioneer too with physical training. So Hickson was like the first jiu-jitsu guy to adopt extreme flexibility, yoga, cold plunges. He was doing these cold plunges in the river, glacial rivers in Japan before he fought in Japan Valley Tudo. It's in the video. You can see it. It's fucking freezing cold water and he's in there just fucking, ah, ah. It's amazing. He was doing neck exercises with like bands. Where he was like going upstairs or pulling against a tree with a fucking, a thing to control his neck muscles and strengthen his neck muscles. He was doing shit that nobody was, nobody had figured out.

• 1:28:31Speaker 01

  S and C, years ahead of the game.

• 1:28:33Speaker 00

  Way ahead of the game.

• 1:28:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:34Speaker 00

  Balance work, the balance beam stuff, where he's doing a standing split on a balance beam.

• 1:28:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, you, you know, and that, that sort of stuff is so vital for MMA because you're just, there is no controlled position.

• 1:28:48Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:28:48Speaker 01

  Like, cause you're constantly moving with, like, obviously the external variable is the opponent is trying to do things to you. And you're kind of working with that whilst trying to do your own things. And you're never in a position where your body's controlled. Like, it's very imbalanced. So doing a lot of these imbalanced sort of exercises and balance exercises where you're strengthening one, one muscle or flexing one muscle or turning one on. It's just, they're so important. That's why I think, I think you mentioned it, or we started to just beforehand, gymnastics as a baseline for.

• 1:29:21Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:29:22Speaker 01

  Anything.

• 1:29:23Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:29:23Speaker 01

  Anything is just.

• 1:29:26Speaker 01

  The best.

• 1:29:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, gymnasts are so physically strong to be able to throw yourself in the air and land on your feet and move around like that, like that do to the front flip to the ass kick. We found out with breakdancing. So one of the things that happened with the with Tent Planet was they they started bringing in breakdancers and Eddie Bravo realized like, oh, my God, Gio Martinez and Richie Martinez. These two guys were excellent breakdancers. They do all this crazy shit like hop on one hand and do like a handstand and do a lotus with your legs without even touching your feet, crazy stuff.

• 1:30:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:03Speaker 00

  But that ability to control your body, we realized translates directly to jiu jitsu.

• 1:30:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, it does.

• 1:30:09Speaker 00

  So Eddie started like learning breakdancing to like help jiu jitsu. Eddie's super open minded. He'll try anything and he sees someone that's really good. He's like, what are you doing? How do you do that? Like if someone does something in a class, he'll stop the whole class. Is that, did you make that up? Did you invent that?

• 1:30:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:24Speaker 00

  Show us how you do it. And he'll have everybody go through, well, I do this, but I find that they countered that. So I'm holding it like this now. And everybody's like, oh, and then they'll study it and break it down.

• 1:30:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:34Speaker 00

  So he saw these guys breakdance. He's like, wait, wait, why the fuck are you so strong? Like, what's going on here?

• 1:30:39Speaker 01

  So can Eddie breakdance?

• 1:30:40Speaker 00

  I don't know if he really got good at it, but I know he was definitely learning some of the stuff.

• 1:30:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:30:44Speaker 00

  Just as a strength and conditioning routine.

• 1:30:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I was I was super lucky. So early on in my career, like most MMA was still very new. So the the information wasn't out there today. Like today, you can get a full information plan of AI.

• 1:30:59Speaker 00

  Right, right, right.

• 1:31:00Speaker 01

  And just and just find out anything you want. But I was super lucky to meet my wife as early as I did because her background is elite gymnastics.

• 1:31:07Speaker 00

  Ah.

• 1:31:08Speaker 01

  And elite gymnastics, like they're animals.

• 1:31:10Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:31:11Speaker 01

  They they their whole life is one long camp because they can't stop. Because they can't put on weight, they can't do it like it's just they're just in it forever until they're not. It is wild, like every day is performance based, like long hours. So her mentality really kind of led me in in into my my craft and me in my early days.

• 1:31:35Speaker 00

  Did she teach you gymnastics?

• 1:31:37Speaker 01

  She tried, she tried, she tried like, and there's a like, she was the one that made me realize how important a strong core is, like a strong core. The core is everything to like as a person, like just being able to move and walk around. And especially with the dynamic movements of MMA and fighting. It's like, so, but she was actually the one that like she was my nutritionist. She was like my strength and conditioning coach at one point.

• 1:32:01Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 1:32:02Speaker 01

  Because she had like the health science background and sports science background and.

• 1:32:07Speaker 00

  Oh, how convenient.

• 1:32:08Speaker 01

  And I was just a poor kid that could fight.

• 1:32:11Speaker 00

  That's awesome, though. What a great combination.

• 1:32:14Speaker 01

  Lucky, super lucky.

• 1:32:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, I I think a lot of people neglect core work, like real core, like rotational core work. I know I did for a long time and I just started doing it a few years ago, like really getting into rotational work, like a lot of like heavy cable rotational work and kettlebell rotational work. Man, it just, I was doing it out of necessity because I kept getting injured. I was getting certain certain lower back injuries that were like a repetitive use injury.

• 1:32:40Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:32:40Speaker 00

  And I said, I think there's an imbalance, you know, so a lot of it I was getting from archery. So I was getting this tendonitis on my lower right side. And what it is, is because I'm pulling back with one arm like a hundred times a day.

• 1:32:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:55Speaker 00

  And I'm not doing anything on the other side.

• 1:32:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:57Speaker 00

  So all my stability is on this side. I'm like pulling back on that side and I'm locking myself in place. And it started to fuck with me. And so I went to a physical therapist and he started recommending some, and one of them was rotational shit.

• 1:33:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:08Speaker 00

  And then as soon as I started doing it, I was like, why wasn't I doing this my whole life?

• 1:33:12Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:33:13Speaker 00

  This is so stupid. I'm such a moron.

• 1:33:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. It's such like, it's so vital. It's like, it's like all your other physical capabilities get capped at like eighty percent. And that that having that strong core just unlocks that.

• 1:33:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:33:26Speaker 01

  It just makes your whole body stronger and just like living, living is better. Pick up your kids without pulling a like popping a hernia.

• 1:33:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, it improves everything. It really does. They say that like if you do those, you know, those hanging foot to bar moves, just a hanging foot to bar.

• 1:33:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:45Speaker 00

  That improves your deadlift, that improves your clean and and press, that improves the strength of your chin ups, it improves everything, just that one move. That's Donahue's number one move. He said the one move that he says is a must, a mandatory for all athletes, you have to be able to do that.

• 1:34:02Speaker 01

  What what what move is this?

• 1:34:04Speaker 00

  So you're hanging chin up bar, you're hanging and then you lift your feet up and touch the bar with no momentum. So you have to be, you have to stabilize it at the bottom and then pull it all up and stabilize it at the bottom, pull it off, that one movement, because it's so core intensive, that movement right there.

• 1:34:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:22Speaker 00

  So that right there.

• 1:34:22Speaker 01

  That's like, it's it's like, what? That's why I have so much respect. You see those guys at like bar kings?

• 1:34:29Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, those guys.

• 1:34:30Speaker 01

  Where they're like holding out full extension of walking.

• 1:34:32Speaker 00

  Flagpoles, yeah. And just jacked.

• 1:34:36Speaker 01

  He jacked like they they must only eat salad.

• 1:34:44Speaker 01

  Like it doesn't look like you could burn a stupid amount of calories just on bars.

• 1:34:49Speaker 00

  But you are, right? Because you're building muscle and the muscle requires more calories. And you're you're essentially like lifting your own body weight all day. Those guys do it for hours and hours at a time.

• 1:35:00Speaker 01

  And I guess like, I guess like having any extra weight would affect this, the performance of all this stuff by a great degree.

• 1:35:09Speaker 00

  What is this guy doing?

• 1:35:10Speaker 03

  I just went to their most recent video they put up.

• 1:35:12Speaker 01

  He's just got.

• 1:35:13Speaker 00

  Oh, this is Bar Stars?

• 1:35:14Speaker 01

  He's just using his fingers about to keep balance.

• 1:35:16Speaker 00

  He must be some kind of a rock climber. That's freakish. Yeah, some of these, what is this dude doing? Hey, bro, are you trying to die? Are you trying to die? Do you understand electricity?

• 1:35:28Speaker 01

  This this video.

• 1:35:31Speaker 00

  Don't do that. Kids at home, don't do that.

• 1:35:35Speaker 01

  That is terrible.

• 1:35:36Speaker 00

  How can you do that and not die? Are those not power lines? Maybe the power's out, it took a chance. Now's my time.

• 1:35:42Speaker 01

  Maybe he did it properly and grounded himself and then went up there for the video.

• 1:35:46Speaker 00

  Fuck, do you ground yourself when you're holding on to those? Just you ever heard like what it sounds like for those guys that have to work on those power lines?

• 1:35:53Speaker 01

  You can just hear the. Yeah.

• 1:35:56Speaker 00

  And you just imagine the kind of power that's going through those fucking things.

• 1:36:00Speaker 01

  Electricity's scary, isn't it?

• 1:36:01Speaker 00

  Terrifying.

• 1:36:02Speaker 01

  Like, I was an electrician for a little bit.

• 1:36:04Speaker 00

  Were you really?

• 1:36:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, that's why that's why I started. I was an electrician.

• 1:36:07Speaker 00

  No shit.

• 1:36:08Speaker 01

  I was electrician as I was like kind of fighting on the local scenes, professional still, but on the local scenes. And then I got the call up for Ultimate Fighter and I said, I'm going to take some annual leave when I'm on the Ultimate Fighter.

• 1:36:18Speaker 00

  So did you go through an apprenticeship?

• 1:36:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I was a fourth year apprentice. So I was I was supposed to, I was doing my capstone, which is the end test. And I was going to do that. And then the Ultimate Fighter said, all right, come in, let's go try you out. I went on the show, I applied for annual leave, never.

• 1:36:34Speaker 00

  Never went back.

• 1:36:35Speaker 01

  Never went back. Maybe, I wonder if my job's still there.

• 1:36:39Speaker 00

  I have a buddy of mine, my friend, shout out to Jimmy DiTilio, back home in Boston. He he worked with this guy who lost his face. He just had just some crazy power thing and just scorched his skin all over his whole face. Just got zapped, just got electrocuted.

• 1:36:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:55Speaker 00

  Something went wrong.

• 1:36:56Speaker 01

  That's crazy, like, yeah, electricity is just, and because it's not like the damage you get, like there are heaps of people that can get electrocuted and be fine. And then there's heaps that just die straight away.

• 1:37:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, my buddy Remy got hit by lightning.

• 1:37:09Speaker 01

  No, really?

• 1:37:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, when he was young, I think he was in high school. And he lived, but he got fucked up and he woke up on the ground and realized eventually what happened.

• 1:37:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, wow.

• 1:37:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:37:22Speaker 01

  That's good.

• 1:37:23Speaker 00

  That's fucking terrifying.

• 1:37:24Speaker 01

  Do you reckon that's a good omen or a bad omen?

• 1:37:27Speaker 00

  Neither.

• 1:37:29Speaker 01

  If you had to look at it.

• 1:37:30Speaker 00

  It's not good because you got hit by lightning. It's not good luck.

• 1:37:33Speaker 01

  But you lived.

• 1:37:33Speaker 00

  Good luck would be the lightning lands five feet away from you and you're like, fuck, let's get off this mountain. Bad luck is you get hit by lightning, but worse luck is you die.

• 1:37:43Speaker 01

  I think bad luck would be turning into some charcoal.

• 1:37:48Speaker 00

  I wonder like, is it just like sometimes you live because like sometimes you go get a full blast? Like one of them blasts that like cuts a tree in half?

• 1:37:54Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:37:55Speaker 00

  You've seen those?

• 1:37:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:37:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, I guess that kills you. That seems like that would kill you.

• 1:38:01Speaker 01

  I think, I think, I think the lightning has a lot of voltage, not a lot of current. Or it can.

• 1:38:11Speaker 00

  As an electrician, you can illuminate us on this.

• 1:38:14Speaker 01

  It's the current that kills you.

• 1:38:15Speaker 00

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• 1:40:48Speaker 01

  I can't, I can't tell you right now.

• 1:40:50Speaker 00

  Well, you're looking pretty smart five minutes ago.

• 1:40:53Speaker 01

  I've been out of the game for a little bit.

• 1:40:57Speaker 01

  For a hot minute.

• 1:40:58Speaker 00

  I think it's probably you have a heart attack. That's probably what it does to a lot of people.

• 1:41:02Speaker 01

  And it burns you, obviously.

• 1:41:03Speaker 00

  Obviously. Yeah, I think it probably just short circuits your entire system.

• 1:41:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, that's what a D fib is, right? It's like literally trying to short circuit your heart back.

• 1:41:12Speaker 00

  Have you ever seen the video? This is one guy, he's, I think he's in his driveway. He's walking down the driveway. He gets hit by lightning, falls to the ground, goes out, wakes up, starts walking again, gets hit again.

• 1:41:26Speaker 00

  Two kids hit twice. Like, what are the fucking odds? I hope it's real.

• 1:41:32Speaker 03

  Once you say one of the odds, the odds are very low, so I think it's not real, but.

• 1:41:36Speaker 00

  Well, it's an old video. The only reason why I don't think it's AI, it could be fake.

• 1:41:40Speaker 01

  You pissed someone off to get hit by lightning twice.

• 1:41:43Speaker 00

  He did something bad. You cheated on your taxes. You did some fraud.

• 1:41:48Speaker 01

  If you're not going straight to confession afterwards.

• 1:41:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, you stole something. You did something bad.

• 1:41:53Speaker 01

  You kicked a cat when no one was watching, like.

• 1:41:57Speaker 03

  The two strikes and catching it on video are like impossible.

• 1:42:00Speaker 00

  But I thought it was a security camera. I thought it was in his driveway.

• 1:42:03Speaker 03

  People fake that all the time.

• 1:42:04Speaker 00

  No, no, no, those are all real.

• 1:42:05Speaker 03

  No, no.

• 1:42:05Speaker 00

  No, those are all real, Jamie.

• 1:42:06Speaker 03

  No, no.

• 1:42:07Speaker 00

  Shut the fuck up, Jamie.

• 1:42:08Speaker 03

  See, look, he got back up and he's about to get hit again.

• 1:42:09Speaker 00

  I don't think that's the guy.

• 1:42:10Speaker 03

  No, this, people fake this all the time.

• 1:42:12Speaker 00

  Bro, you can kill that guy with a balloon. That guy is not getting hit by lightning and living.

• 1:42:17Speaker 01

  I think he's got scorch marks. Look at the homemade, look at the homemade scorch marks. Look at the homemade scorch marks.

• 1:42:24Speaker 00

  I was gonna say, he falls down too, bitch ass fake fall.

• 1:42:26Speaker 03

  This one actually is not getting hit twice, this is a more recent one, but.

• 1:42:29Speaker 00

  That probably is real, I'm just kidding.

• 1:42:31Speaker 01

  I get sucked into these videos all the time.

• 1:42:33Speaker 00

  I'm sorry, sir, if you got hit by lightning and I'm mocking you, we're just having fun, it's all love.

• 1:42:37Speaker 01

  I'm sorry as well.

• 1:42:38Speaker 00

  We're just joking around, sir. If that really was, I hope he really didn't get hit by lightning, I hope he faked it. Cause it's not funny, getting hit by lightning is not funny.

• 1:42:46Speaker 01

  If you live, it's alright.

• 1:42:47Speaker 00

  I guess.

• 1:42:50Speaker 01

  If he died, it would have been bad.

• 1:42:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, this is the guy.

• 1:42:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:54Speaker 00

  Shut up, Jamie. This is real, you don't know shit, Jamie. This is real. So the guy gets up and he starts walking. Now watch this, he gets hit again. I'm pretty sure this is real, Jamie.

• 1:43:07Speaker 03

  Is having the unluckiest day of his life.

• 1:43:11Speaker 00

  Brother, that's real. That's as real as the baby Jesus.

• 1:43:14Speaker 03

  He's been struck twice.

• 1:43:16Speaker 01

  It's real. Jamie.

• 1:43:19Speaker 03

  Watch him get struck a third time.

• 1:43:20Speaker 01

  Come on, Jamie.

• 1:43:21Speaker 03

  Tune in next week.

• 1:43:22Speaker 00

  Shut up. Why are you ruining everything?

• 1:43:28Speaker 00

  I think that one's real.

• 1:43:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, that one's real.

• 1:43:37Speaker 01

  Oh my goodness.

• 1:43:38Speaker 00

  It's a fucked up way to go. It's a fucked up way to go.

• 1:43:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. Pair of smoking shoes.

• 1:43:44Speaker 00

  That's why tasers are wild. Like, you ever seen like a dude who's like messed up but gets tased and he just starts screaming and pulls the things out of his body?

• 1:43:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:51Speaker 00

  You're like, how come?

• 1:43:51Speaker 01

  There's like six, six cops and they're just like, choo.

• 1:43:58Speaker 00

  Like, ah, fuck.

• 1:43:59Speaker 01

  He's in that Hulk rage moment, like.

• 1:44:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, but some people, they just. They just shut off and go straight down to the ground.

• 1:44:06Speaker 01

  I want it in, in my head canon, I'm that, like, I just rip it off, I take it, I'm probably just like, eh.

• 1:44:12Speaker 00

  I'm pretty sure I fall down. I'm sure if I fall down, Steph is aboard, I fall down immediately.

• 1:44:19Speaker 01

  You know, it's not even getting that far, I'm putting my hands, I'm just trying to know, like, what am I doing?

• 1:44:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, don't tase me, I'm happy to comply. Fuck. Yeah, it's just like, some people, like Dana White on his show, Dana White's looking for a fight, they all got tased once.

• 1:44:34Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 1:44:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was him.

• 1:44:35Speaker 01

  I was gonna ask if you have done it, cause.

• 1:44:36Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:44:37Speaker 01

  Seems like a crazy thing.

• 1:44:38Speaker 00

  No, I'm not interested. Not interested in getting fucking tased, that seems ridiculous. That doesn't seem fun at all. It's just like, I don't want to have a heart attack either, like, what if you get a heart attack?

• 1:44:47Speaker 01

  Cause it can happen.

• 1:44:48Speaker 00

  I think it can.

• 1:44:49Speaker 03

  This is a tough situation, this guy is not complying.

• 1:44:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:52Speaker 00

  He's pretty jacked too.

• 1:44:53Speaker 01

  Dude, look at the size, oh no, he's, he's ex-army, I think I've seen this. He's like ex-Navy SEALs or something.

• 1:44:58Speaker 03

  Tried tasing them too.

• 1:44:59Speaker 01

  And he's got like PTSD.

• 1:45:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, he's having a problem and he's barefoot.

• 1:45:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. He's earthing.

• 1:45:07Speaker 03

  If it doesn't work, you better run.

• 1:45:09Speaker 01

  And, and you know what's crazy? Like, he's a big unit too.

• 1:45:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, he's a big fucker.

• 1:45:13Speaker 01

  And why, why did they send four women cops to deal with him?

• 1:45:16Speaker 00

  I like how he's still holding his phone too.

• 1:45:18Speaker 03

  Did you see what he just said?

• 1:45:20Speaker 00

  What'd he say?

• 1:45:20Speaker 03

  Tase me all day, I love pain.

• 1:45:22Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 1:45:23Speaker 03

  Fun.

• 1:45:23Speaker 01

  Some people have just built.

• 1:45:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't understand that. So is it some people's bot, cause I thought it didn't, until I saw a few of these guys online. My original ignorant thought was, once they tase you, you get zapped, no matter how tough you are.

• 1:45:38Speaker 01

  Contracting, you're gone.

• 1:45:39Speaker 00

  Everything, you just fall down.

• 1:45:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:40Speaker 00

  That's it. No, apparently not.

• 1:45:42Speaker 01

  No, not of that guy.

• 1:45:43Speaker 00

  Some people are like, fuck this, eh.

• 1:45:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:45Speaker 00

  That guy didn't even seem bothered by it.

• 1:45:47Speaker 01

  No, didn't, didn't flinch.

• 1:45:49Speaker 00

  That's great, let me see that again, let me see him get tased.

• 1:45:53Speaker 00

  You sure that's real? I think the lightning is real and that one's fake, Jamie.

• 1:45:57Speaker 03

  I think you're right.

• 1:45:58Speaker 00

  How about that?

• 1:45:59Speaker 01

  Honestly, this guy gets struck by lightning. I don't.

• 1:46:03Speaker 03

  It's called pain tolerance, he said.

• 1:46:06Speaker 01

  I don't reckon he takes a knee if he gets struck by lightning.

• 1:46:08Speaker 00

  Haven't tased him yet.

• 1:46:09Speaker 03

  At that point, they did.

• 1:46:10Speaker 00

  Where'd they tase him? Let me see. Oh yeah, oh, you could see him spaz out and react.

• 1:46:16Speaker 01

  You know what is funny? When, when.

• 1:46:18Speaker 03

  They might not have gone in until then, that was also the thing, if you pull it out that easy.

• 1:46:22Speaker 01

  When the guys like try to make a leg for it, they try to, try to make a bolt for it and they get hit mid stride, they, duh.

• 1:46:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's fun, those are fun. It says, uh, he said, get down on the ground, he goes, negative. That's not good. That's not good, he's being salty.

• 1:46:38Speaker 01

  I'm calling this in, I'm like, I'm gonna need backup.

• 1:46:41Speaker 00

  Well, he's just depending upon them not shooting him. That's the problem. It's like.

• 1:46:45Speaker 01

  I don't think he cares either.

• 1:46:47Speaker 00

  Well, he should definitely care about that, cause I don't care how tough you are.

• 1:46:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:51Speaker 00

  Guy unloads his magazine into you, you're gonna be dead.

• 1:46:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:46:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I don't, he's depending on them, well, who knows what the fucking scenario was? I don't know, maybe he's right, who fucking knows? Sometimes people get pulled over for bullshit reasons and they're, they're right to get pissed off. I don't know what happened there. But from my own observation, looks like the man's a tad unhinged.

• 1:47:15Speaker 01

  And he's, he's too big to be unhinged.

• 1:47:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:47:19Speaker 01

  He's a monster of a man.

• 1:47:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:47:22Speaker 01

  I was getting real Struve vibes, Stephen Struve.

• 1:47:24Speaker 00

  Right, right, right.

• 1:47:25Speaker 01

  Struve vibes from that guy.

• 1:47:27Speaker 00

  Stephen Struve, forgot about him. Yeah, there's a few of those guys that fought in the UFC that are just so fucking tall. Remember Semi Schilt?

• 1:47:35Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:47:35Speaker 00

  Semi Schilt, elite kickboxer, K1 champion from Holland. Nasty front kick, seven feet tall. He was so big, he was just ridiculously tall. And he just would step forward and throw these front kicks and fuck you up with them.

• 1:47:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, I feel like I would have been such a good tall fighter. You know what I mean? If I just had like an extra foot or, just give me an extra inch, I reckon, I could have, I could have did some really cool things.

• 1:48:01Speaker 00

  How hard was it for you to stay at 170? Like, what was your 170 cut like?

• 1:48:07Speaker 01

  Oh, it was nightmarish.

• 1:48:08Speaker 00

  What did you start off at?

• 1:48:10Speaker 01

  It's the sort of thing, obviously, when I started, when I was at 170, I was, I started when I was a teenager, so I started at 18. And then I went, I was thinking I was 170 until about 23. And it was just getting harder and harder, you know, as, as you age, you just get bigger and bigger. And I've, I've always been like a naturally heavy guy, heavyset guy. I used to, my moldy jeans.

• 1:48:34Speaker 01

  And the last weight cut I did was 7.4 kilos on the day.

• 1:48:40Speaker 00

  Ooh.

• 1:48:41Speaker 01

  So that's, how many pounds is that?

• 1:48:44Speaker 00

  17 pounds, what is that?

• 1:48:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:46Speaker 00

  That's a lot, in one day.

• 1:48:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, like morning of.

• 1:48:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, so that was, what year was this?

• 1:48:52Speaker 01

  Sure, I would have been 24, 24, so 2000.

• 1:48:58Speaker 00

  So you had like, great performances at welterweight, like really promising performances, but for sure, when you went up to 85, that's when you became Robert Whittaker. That's when you really became.

• 1:49:10Speaker 01

  For certain.

• 1:49:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's like, you had found the sweet spot.

• 1:49:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:14Speaker 00

  And some people, there's that, the, the gaps are so enormous between weight classes, which I think is a real problem.

• 1:49:21Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:49:21Speaker 00

  15 pounds is a lot of weight.

• 1:49:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:23Speaker 00

  In boxing, that would be three or four weight classes.

• 1:49:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:26Speaker 00

  Whereas in MMA, it's one. And the 70 to 85 gap is big, but the 85 to 205 gap is bananas.

• 1:49:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it is, it is. But I was, I was always kind of cutting down from a 205er to 85. And it just get, it just got harder and harder. You know what I mean? And especially with, cause I've been, I've been fortunate and blessed enough to fight for a long career. And I've had, I've been able to have a ton of fights. So to, you just kind of get sick of cutting weight constantly.

• 1:49:55Speaker 00

  Of course.

• 1:49:55Speaker 01

  Sick of, and then, and the camps themselves are tricky because like you're, you're trying to fuel yourself for the sessions, but you can't eat too much.

• 1:50:04Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:50:04Speaker 01

  And food is a direct link to like.

• 1:50:07Speaker 00

  Performance.

• 1:50:07Speaker 01

  Recovery and performance.

• 1:50:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:50:09Speaker 01

  So that, that was one of the biggest things I noticed, moving up to, to like heavyweight, was that the camps were just so much better. So I can just eat, I can eat carbs, I can eat carbs, I can just fuel my body, you know? And my body was stronger during the camp, I had more energy during the camps. Like, I didn't really, I, the weight cuts were kind of the same, cause I still wanted to have some size and have some weight behind me. So I still, I still made the weight cut, it's not like I just walked in there.

• 1:50:35Speaker 00

  But your body's more or less filling into its natural state.

• 1:50:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:50:39Speaker 00

  Rather than staying in its constantly depleted state.

• 1:50:41Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:50:42Speaker 00

  Like especially at 170, like at 170, what did you walk around at?

• 1:50:45Speaker 01

  I want to say, it would have been like 94-ish kilos, 92-ish kilos.

• 1:50:53Speaker 00

  What is that, Jamie?

• 1:50:55Speaker 01

  90, oh what, 90, 90, about 198, something like that.

• 1:50:59Speaker 00

  So close, close to 200 pounds, so close to 30 pounds of cutting.

• 1:51:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:04Speaker 00

  That's a lot.

• 1:51:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, and then as well as, because I've been in the game for so long and you understand better than most, like there's life going on around you. I don't know what it was, because the, the last, the last few middleweight camps I had did not enjoy them. The, the cut, the diet, the, the, the training fatigue, I've got a bunch of kids at home. Trying to hang out with six kids when I'm this fatigued. Starving, it was just, you kind of get sick of it, you get burnt out a little bit from, from, from that style thing. And one, one, one of the big things that, I don't know why, it seems like a small thing, but one of the big things that made me like sad was that I went, I went to my cupboard and nothing fits.

• 1:51:48Speaker 01

  Because like I get, I get fitted for suits when I'm like trim, when I'm lean, when I, my shorts are in. So like if I'm walking around my normal weight, I don't have clothes.

• 1:51:59Speaker 01

  And I know how stupid that sounds, how little that is, but it made me sad. It's like, at the end of this career that I've had, like I've been in the UFC for 15 years, end of my career, I'm gonna have no clothes.

• 1:52:14Speaker 01

  It made me, I was like, I was upset. I was like,

• 1:52:17Speaker 00

  That's hilarious.

• 1:52:18Speaker 01

  Man, it's just, it doesn't really make sense, but it, it made sense to me. It made me upset. That's why, that was another thing where I was like, I'm gonna, I wanna go, I wanna walk around and have clothes. I wanna, I wanna, I wanted something to show for this.

• 1:52:32Speaker 00

  Don't you think that MMA would be better in general if there was a way to stop weight cutting? Just avoid it. And then you fight at what you actually weigh when you're at your healthiest.

• 1:52:42Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:52:43Speaker 00

  You'd have to have way more options for weight classes, for sure. And there would have to be some way to monitor to make sure the people aren't dehydrating themselves. Almost like, you know how we were talking about how drug-free sport or USADA could just randomly drug test you?

• 1:52:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:56Speaker 00

  They show up and drug test. They should be able to randomly weigh you. Just show up. Just here, get down in your underwear, get on a scale. Oh, you're fighting at 170, but you weigh 208. That's not right.

• 1:53:07Speaker 01

  But then-

• 1:53:08Speaker 00

  You should be fighting at 205.

• 1:53:10Speaker 01

  But then that takes away a lot of free agency from the athlete. Like,

• 1:53:14Speaker 00

  Does it though? Because you could change your body weight if you so choose, right? Like you see a lot of these, like, um, you know, Dave, like Dave Bautista, the wrestler, who was enormous at one point in time, now he's slimming down and getting shredded. So he could take on more roles, more complex acting roles.

• 1:53:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53:32Speaker 00

  That could be done. Like you could do that as a professional fighter as well. You could do a lot more cardio and get your body down to a healthy level of whatever it is. Whatever, whatever weight class you're at your best.

• 1:53:43Speaker 01

  But when, then when you jump on that family holiday, that family cruise, and you're at the salad bar the entire time. That doesn't sound super fun.

• 1:53:50Speaker 00

  That doesn't sound super fun, but I mean, I don't think, I don't advocate that. I'm saying be healthy and eat food.

• 1:53:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53:58Speaker 00

  But be at a weight that's a real, like, if everybody just fought at the weight they are when they're in shape and eating the adequate amount of food to, to fuel you, like a real full meal. Like full meals every session, eating fruit, getting in your carbs, drinking tons of water, never being dehydrated. But this is what you weigh with, you know, 10% body fat, natural, healthy fit. What is that? That should be how everybody fights.

• 1:54:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess in a perfect world, I, like, I have zero idea on how you would implement something like that.

• 1:54:28Speaker 00

  I don't either.

• 1:54:28Speaker 01

  Like, no answers. And I've thought of, thought about, obviously, this has been a question in the MMA world for the longest time. And in all sports with weight divisions, really.

• 1:54:36Speaker 00

  Of course.

• 1:54:37Speaker 01

  But it's just, it's just, you also then look at human nature and it's just our tendency to push the envelope.

• 1:54:44Speaker 00

  Well, especially in a sport that has been predicated on that.

• 1:54:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:48Speaker 00

  I mean, people have been doing that forever. They've been cutting massive amounts of weight forever.

• 1:54:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I guess maybe because the, the sport, um, sprouted here, right? It's just, it's taken a lot of the wrestling mentality.

• 1:55:00Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:55:00Speaker 01

  And weight cuts and weight divisions and, and, and all that into, into the sport itself. But I definitely feel like you see more of that, like that dichotomy of, of that, that kinda scenario of more natural weight classes, the higher up you go in the weight divisions. So you see more in like heavyweights where guys are, they're more normal weight class. Or especially in, in heavyweight, they're all, they're all just big boys.

• 1:55:25Speaker 00

  Right, right.

• 1:55:26Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 1:55:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:55:27Speaker 01

  And some look like Uberim.

• 1:55:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:55:30Speaker 01

  And some look like, I don't know, Pat Boyer.

• 1:55:33Speaker 00

  He's the best, yeah. Uberim, the Uberim days is the, the best argument for keeping steroids in sports. It's like, come on. Don't you wanna see that again? Like, what are we doing? Like, the pride, we were talking about this last night at the club, the pride days.

• 1:55:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:49Speaker 00

  The pride heavyweight days was the greatest heavyweight lineup in the history of the fucking sport.

• 1:55:54Speaker 01

  It doesn't seem like everyone was a heavyweight.

• 1:55:56Speaker 00

  There were so many heavyweights, man. Well, first of all, they would encourage you to gain weight.

• 1:56:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:01Speaker 00

  Like, uh, one of the guys from Eddie's Gym, Jason Chambers, fought over there. And when he fought over there, they're like, you should be 185. And he's like, I don't, I'm not 185. And they're like, you should get on steroids. Like,

• 1:56:14Speaker 00

  telling them, get on steroids.

• 1:56:16Speaker 01

  We can make you, we can make you 185.

• 1:56:19Speaker 00

  Ensign Inua, when he did the podcast, he told me very specifically that in the contract, it said in capital letters, "We do not test for steroids." It was like in capital letters later. We're all good.

• 1:56:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you saw those fights. They were mental.

• 1:56:38Speaker 00

  Amazing, amazing.

• 1:56:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:39Speaker 00

  Mental and the greatest heavyweight division that has ever been assembled.

• 1:56:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:44Speaker 00

  Mirko Krokop in his prime, Fedor in his prime, Nogera in his prime.

• 1:56:49Speaker 01

  Vanderlei.

• 1:56:50Speaker 00

  Van, well Vanderlei was, really shouldn't have been fighting at heavyweight, but he did. He fought Mark Hunt. Remember that fight? Oh, Jesus. When he fought Mark Hunt, I was like, oh my God, getting hit by Mark Hunt.

• 1:56:59Speaker 01

  Mark Hunt?

• 1:57:00Speaker 00

  When you're a 185 pounder, that is crazy.

• 1:57:03Speaker 01

  Fedor.

• 1:57:04Speaker 00

  Bro, Fedor, Jesus.

• 1:57:05Speaker 01

  My goodness.

• 1:57:06Speaker 00

  When he got knocked out by Krokop, when he got head kicked, when Vanderlei got head kicked, it's like, good Lord.

• 1:57:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, it got folded. It's, uh, Krokop's head kicks was just brutal. But what a, what a twist of fate, the way that he got head kicked.

• 1:57:19Speaker 00

  By Gonzaga.

• 1:57:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:57:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:57:21Speaker 01

  Like, it was such a, it was such a thing because that's his thing.

• 1:57:25Speaker 00

  He got Krokop.

• 1:57:25Speaker 01

  You can't, you can't Krokop Krokop.

• 1:57:27Speaker 00

  I know. And by a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt, with, nobody expected him to win that way.

• 1:57:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, it was wild.

• 1:57:34Speaker 00

  A lot of people forget about Gonzaga. Gonzaga was a fucking beast, man. He was a beast.

• 1:57:39Speaker 01

  That's, that's the answer to weight divisions. Absolute.

• 1:57:42Speaker 00

  Right. But some guys can't do it, you know?

• 1:57:46Speaker 01

  Definitely not.

• 1:57:46Speaker 00

  TJ Dillashaw can't fight absolute, but he can be one of the elite of all time at bantamweight, you know? Yeah, here's Mark Hunt and Vanderlei, bro. Mark Hunt was so big.

• 1:57:55Speaker 01

  Oh, dude.

• 1:57:56Speaker 00

  He was 265 and Vanderlei was fighting 185 at the, or 205.

• 1:58:00Speaker 01

  And it's Mark Hunt. Like he just, he's not a fun fight ever.

• 1:58:05Speaker 00

  Well, first of all, almost impossible to hurt. Cause that guy got head kicked by Krokop and just went, well, good shot, got back up.

• 1:58:11Speaker 01

  Good one, good one.

• 1:58:12Speaker 00

  Got back up and was fine.

• 1:58:14Speaker 01

  Good one.

• 1:58:15Speaker 00

  And I think he got head kicked with shoes on. It's back when they, they were wearing wrestling shoes, you know? And still was fine. Bro, he was a tank. He could eat them. He could eat those shots.

• 1:58:25Speaker 01

  And he had touch of death.

• 1:58:27Speaker 00

  Touch of death. And the, one of the greatest walk-offs in the history of sport. He would KO you and just go, oh, you're gone. And just turn around and just walk away.

• 1:58:35Speaker 01

  Even if you weren't gone, he'd still just walk away.

• 1:58:37Speaker 00

  And the referee would stop it. Cause he'd be on your back going, where's he going? And the referee would be like, that's it.

• 1:58:42Speaker 01

  No, you're, you're dead.

• 1:58:43Speaker 00

  He called the, he called the fight?

• 1:58:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:58:47Speaker 00

  There's some of those walk-offs, you're like, I don't know if that's a real KO.

• 1:58:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:50Speaker 00

  Like, maybe that guy could have, if he got on top and kept going and just covering up, it might have, he might have lasted to the end of the round.

• 1:58:57Speaker 01

  There were plenty of times I see a walk-off KO and you're exactly that. Like they can't, you know how sometimes guys come back?

• 1:59:04Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:59:05Speaker 01

  After getting hit a couple more times?

• 1:59:06Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:59:07Speaker 01

  So they come back and then, then you've gassed yourself and then you're in for another four rounds.

• 1:59:10Speaker 00

  You know the best example of that is? Anderson Silva, Michael Bisping.

• 1:59:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:59:15Speaker 00

  He hits him with a flying knee.

• 1:59:17Speaker 01

  At the bell buzzer.

• 1:59:17Speaker 00

  It looks like he's KO'd. It looks like the fight is over, but Herb Dean did not stop the fight. I think it was Herb Dean. And then Anderson hops up on top of the cage and is celebrating.

• 1:59:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's like, yeah, he's ready to hit the showers.

• 1:59:30Speaker 00

  Bisping comes back in the next round and wins it and wins the decision.

• 1:59:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:34Speaker 00

  With one fucking eyeball. Animal.

• 1:59:38Speaker 01

  How, how does that mess you up mentally if, cause I know the, the feeling of winning.

• 1:59:44Speaker 00

  Here it is. See, lost his mouthpiece, boom, he gets KO'd and Anderson walks off. Like, that's it. And Herb Dean said, no, it's not over. So Anderson takes his mouthpiece out.

• 1:59:55Speaker 01

  Oh, he's doing his thing?

• 1:59:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, he's doing his thing. He thinks it's over.

• 2:00:01Speaker 01

  How does that, how does,

• 2:00:04Speaker 01

  how does that affect you if like you're, if you're, if you're there? Because the feeling you get.

• 2:00:10Speaker 00

  So look at this. He hops up on the cage. He thinks it's over. He thinks it's over.

• 2:00:15Speaker 01

  The feeling you get, the high you get when you win a fight is ridiculous. So if he's, if he's feeling that now, well, he obviously is. He's sitting on the cage.

• 2:00:25Speaker 00

  Right, they're telling him and he's saying, it's not over. Look, he goes, fuck, he realizes it right now. It's not over. Which is crazy.

• 2:00:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:31Speaker 00

  Cause if he just followed up with one or two shots, 100% it would have been over.

• 2:00:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. But didn't, didn't the bell buzzer go when he landed that knee?

• 2:00:39Speaker 00

  Maybe, yeah, I think you're right. I think it was like right there.

• 2:00:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:42Speaker 00

  I think he landed the knee and then the, the buzzer went off like right afterwards.

• 2:00:46Speaker 01

  Mark Hunt's walk-offs were like, I've had enough of this.

• 2:00:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, uppercuts.

• 2:00:50Speaker 01

  It's like, it's like he's called it over. It's like, it's like, this is over.

• 2:00:54Speaker 00

  Crazy, man. Crazy. Bisping, what a fucking animal. Maybe the like most mentally tough guy that's ever fought in sport. To, just to be able to do that with one eye. He fought 11 fights with one eye.

• 2:01:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:07Speaker 00

  And didn't tell anybody. Memorized the eye chart.

• 2:01:10Speaker 01

  Really?

• 2:01:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:01:12Speaker 01

  I guess you have to.

• 2:01:13Speaker 00

  Memorized the eye chart so he could do it with his eye closed.

• 2:01:15Speaker 01

  I guess you have to. But no.

• 2:01:17Speaker 00

  Crazy.

• 2:01:17Speaker 01

  Don't they, don't they randomize what kind of?

• 2:01:19Speaker 00

  I don't know.

• 2:01:21Speaker 01

  Or maybe just like, eh.

• 2:01:22Speaker 00

  Maybe they don't.

• 2:01:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:24Speaker 00

  I mean, I don't know. Do they randomize eye charts? Who, what kind of an asshole is gonna memorize the eye chart? I bet they don't. I bet they don't think anyone's gonna try to cheat it. I bet they just have an eye chart and he fucking memorized it.

• 2:01:37Speaker 03

  Wherever the doctor is, it's probably like, ah, they didn't change it from last time.

• 2:01:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:01:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:40Speaker 00

  I guess. Maybe, I mean, but I think he memorized. But just the will to do that, where you've already lost sight in one of your eyes.

• 2:01:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:48Speaker 00

  And to continue to fight and know potentially you could lose sight in the other eye. You know, that's what-

• 2:01:53Speaker 01

  So did he lose his vision from?

• 2:01:54Speaker 00

  It's gone.

• 2:01:55Speaker 01

  No, like from, from, from a shot?

• 2:01:57Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:01:57Speaker 01

  Was it an eye poke or a punch?

• 2:01:58Speaker 00

  Vitor. He got head kicked.

• 2:02:00Speaker 01

  Yes, that'll do it.

• 2:02:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, he got head kicked and it was the first of many eye surgeries. So, uh, I remember he was, uh, I, I, I met him backstage after one of those fights. When he had had like one of his first surgeries and he had like oil in his eye. They had injected something in his eye to protect his eyeball. It was crazy. Like his eye looked really strange.

• 2:02:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:02:24Speaker 00

  I was like, what's going on with your eye? And he was explaining to me he had this surgery and to protect his eye.

• 2:02:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:02:29Speaker 00

  I think by that time he had already gotten, uh, lost a lot of his vision.

• 2:02:35Speaker 03

  According to a comment on a Reddit.

• 2:02:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:02:37Speaker 00

  He said the doctor was out of the office, Bisping went right up to it and memorized the eye chart. Yeah, I think that's what he did.

• 2:02:43Speaker 01

  If it's on, if it's on Reddit, you can take that to the bank.

• 2:02:46Speaker 00

  Well, how about Shara Bullet? Shara Bullet, who's fighting Izzy, he's only got one eye too.

• 2:02:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, when, when's that, is that Doha?

• 2:02:53Speaker 00

  I think so. Well, he has to fight over there.

• 2:02:56Speaker 01

  Cause all-

• 2:02:56Speaker 00

  I don't think he's allowed to fight over here. I think if you fight over here, you're blind in one eye. They won't let you fight.

• 2:03:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:03:03Speaker 00

  He's beaten like top level guys.

• 2:03:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, yes.

• 2:03:06Speaker 00

  With one fucking eyeball.

• 2:03:07Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:03:08Speaker 00

  Here's another guy who got tuned up by Michael Venom Page.

• 2:03:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. Michael, Michael Venom Page, he just looks so annoying to fight. Cause it's like, obviously, I, I, I'd say it's a point in pride that I'll fight everyone and anyone. But then people are like, like, what about Michael Venom Page? I'm like, yeah, there's, there's other guys. I'm like, this, I only wanna fight guys.

• 2:03:29Speaker 00

  MVP's another guy that they didn't offer a contract to. Same thing. He won his last fight.

• 2:03:34Speaker 01

  Oh, no, really?

• 2:03:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, he, he, I mean, he only lost once in the UFC and that was to Ian Gary.

• 2:03:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03:41Speaker 00

  And they didn't offer him a contract. He's gone.

• 2:03:44Speaker 01

  Is he?

• 2:03:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, he's gone.

• 2:03:46Speaker 01

  I didn't know that.

• 2:03:46Speaker 00

  Same kind of deal.

• 2:03:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, just point sparring.

• 2:03:49Speaker 00

  They just decided that they don't want to see that.

• 2:03:51Speaker 01

  Point fighting.

• 2:03:52Speaker 00

  You know, but ah, my take is.

• 2:03:53Speaker 01

  What do you do?

• 2:03:54Speaker 00

  My take is that like, we have to be purists about this. Fighting is fighting.

• 2:03:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03:59Speaker 00

  And if someone has a style like that, it's up to someone else to figure out how to beat it.

• 2:04:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:04:02Speaker 00

  Douglas Lima figured out how to beat it in Bellator.

• 2:04:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:04:05Speaker 00

  He leg kicked him and KO'd him.

• 2:04:07Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:04:07Speaker 00

  And then he beat him in a rematch as well.

• 2:04:09Speaker 01

  That's, that's always been my take, like, if, if I had to look to dissect him. Cause when I was a middleweight, obviously I'm doing that with most of them. It's, it's, it's leg kicks. Agile guys, agile guys, good footwork, you gotta chop the tree down.

• 2:04:21Speaker 00

  Have to.

• 2:04:22Speaker 01

  You, you, you've got to. It's the only way. You gotta slow those feet.

• 2:04:25Speaker 00

  And most people don't realize, when you're watching it, because the guys are moving around, they look normal. They're so compromised. Like one or two hard calf kicks and you're so compromised.

• 2:04:35Speaker 01

  Calf kicks are the worst, aren't they?

• 2:04:37Speaker 00

  Crazy.

• 2:04:38Speaker 01

  Like, one good calf kick, not, not only do you run the risk of like breaking that, what is it, fibia? I don't know what it is.

• 2:04:44Speaker 00

  Fibia and fibula.

• 2:04:45Speaker 01

  One of them.

• 2:04:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:04:47Speaker 01

  You are, like, cause that's, like, breaking that's real.

• 2:04:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:04:51Speaker 01

  Like, breaking that's real, but it hurts and it just, it just stuffs you up.

• 2:04:56Speaker 00

  And your, your leg doesn't work right. You see that all the time where guys just, their leg doesn't work right right now.

• 2:05:01Speaker 01

  And.

• 2:05:01Speaker 00

  They're trying to move around and it's just not responding correctly. So the, most of their weight is on their other leg and they're faking it.

• 2:05:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:07Speaker 00

  They're like faking their movement.

• 2:05:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. And once, once that leg's compromised, it opens you up to more leg kicks.

• 2:05:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:05:13Speaker 01

  Like, it's, it's harder to defend the next calf kick.

• 2:05:16Speaker 00

  What Protest did to Jack. My god. When, when Jack went back to the corner and he yelled at the end of the round, like, hey, don't fucking yell. Like, no ah, don't say ah when he kicks you. Don't do that.

• 2:05:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:28Speaker 00

  But it was so much pain and he couldn't help it.

• 2:05:30Speaker 01

  I was watching it and saying ah, like, it, he was just punishing that leg.

• 2:05:36Speaker 00

  Punishing him.

• 2:05:37Speaker 01

  And that was always, like, a hole Jack had to fill.

• 2:05:41Speaker 00

  Hmm. Well, it's very boxing style.

• 2:05:43Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:05:43Speaker 00

  Boxing, heavy, heavy on the front leg.

• 2:05:45Speaker 01

  And he just, yeah.

• 2:05:46Speaker 00

  The thing too is like, those guys who are really good at switching stances have a giant advantage. If you're one of those guys that must stand orthodox or must stand southpaw and you get that front leg compromised and now all of a sudden you're in a bad position.

• 2:05:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:59Speaker 00

  You're 50% of what you really are.

• 2:06:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:06:02Speaker 00

  And guys like TJ Dillashaw, they're constantly switching. Guys like Corey Sanhagen, constantly switching. So they're comfortable from any stance. That is such an advantage.

• 2:06:11Speaker 01

  It, it's, it's such a huge part of the game. You know, in that first, second fight with Izzy, that's, he, he got me with a, a switched, switched left, left straight down the, uh, left straight down the pipe. And the switching put me off. I think Drakis did it a few times as well. He switches pretty well. Um, just, it, it, you're exactly right. It is such a powerful maneuver, an ability to do, because for that split second, when you see them switch, you have to, you have to like take your strategy and then move over to your southpaw strategy.

• 2:06:41Speaker 00

  Right. Instantaneously. And then take it into consideration that all these punches are coming at totally different angles now.

• 2:06:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

• 2:06:48Speaker 00

  And all your attacks come at totally different angles now too, because you're dealing with a completely different defensive position.

• 2:06:53Speaker 01

  Exactly. And then, then how fast you make that adjustment is obviously where fight IQ and everything else comes into it. It's just, it's make or break. And it's like, and it, it seems to be really popular right now. I feel like guys coming into MMA are like really big switch hitters, like, they're starting it, because it takes a while. It takes years of practice to get comfortable in both sides. So I can, I can, I can fight in southpaw, but my defensive game isn't anywhere near as good as my orthodox side. You know, and, and that's kind of where, what you need when, when you're, when you're standing in a different stance.

• 2:07:27Speaker 00

  Well, that's one of the reasons why Terrence Crawford is so great, is that, you, you know, his coaches told him, hey man, stop fucking around with southpaw. Just stick to one side. He's like, what? Fuck you.

• 2:07:38Speaker 00

  Figure it out. And so he got to a point where it's like, he's the best switch hitter since Marvin Hagler.

• 2:07:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:07:44Speaker 00

  Like, he could switch up with, and so you don't know what's coming. Like, he'll start off a fight, southpaw, and you're like, oh, he's, he's fighting southpaw.

• 2:07:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:07:50Speaker 00

  And then all of a sudden he's orthodox and he stuns you. Now it's southpaw again. Now he's orthodox again. He's just switching back and forth and combinations are coming freely from both sides. Like, it's such an advantage.

• 2:08:00Speaker 01

  Like, cause it's like, fighting southpaws and fighting orthodox fighters, they're, they're like two different strategy sets. Like, a southpaw game and an orthodox game, they're, they're very different. Very different shots, very different openings, like very different opportunities. And especially in MMA where wrestling is obviously prevalent. So having that lead leg not there. Like, if, if, if you're a, if you're an orthodox guy and you're used to shooting on that orthodox side, that lead leg, that lead left leg, and they switch, it, your takedown games are off. And if you're a wrestler, that's,

• 2:08:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:08:35Speaker 01

  That's a, that's tough.

• 2:08:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, I would feel like if, if you're a young fighter and you're just learning right now, my god, start switching.

• 2:08:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:08:44Speaker 00

  There's no reason to not do it.

• 2:08:45Speaker 01

  I think that's what they're all doing.

• 2:08:47Speaker 00

  I think they have to.

• 2:08:47Speaker 01

  There's, there's a lot of like orthodox, like right-handed kids that are just learning, starting in southpaw now.

• 2:08:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, but then part of me says, but what if he just developed such an elite style with one stance? Like that, there's something to that too.

• 2:09:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:09:02Speaker 00

  Just getting so good at checking kicks and so rock solid in one stance.

• 2:09:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, like Pereira. He doesn't, he doesn't switch.

• 2:09:09Speaker 00

  Very rarely.

• 2:09:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:10Speaker 00

  Very rarely. If he does, it's just like while he's throwing combinations, he'll switch a little bit, but it's generally that left hook.

• 2:09:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:17Speaker 00

  It's coming out of nowhere and that right hand and that, that calf kick, that's so weird. He's hitting you with like,

• 2:09:23Speaker 01

  His big toe.

• 2:09:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:09:24Speaker 01

  Cause his big toe's like this big.

• 2:09:28Speaker 01

  He's seen the size of his feet, man.

• 2:09:30Speaker 00

  He's like digging the side of his foot into your calf.

• 2:09:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that, that protrusion of like where his toe connects, oh man.

• 2:09:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:09:38Speaker 01

  He's got a.

• 2:09:39Speaker 00

  Hard as a rock.

• 2:09:40Speaker 01

  He's got like a foot built for that kick.

• 2:09:42Speaker 00

  He's got like a little hammer.

• 2:09:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:43Speaker 00

  He's like tagging your, your calf muscle with it.

• 2:09:45Speaker 01

  And his posture doesn't break at all, because he's got long, long legs. He's tall, obviously, and he can, he can just chip away to like a jab. He doesn't need to, doesn't need to close distance, doesn't need to back away. Body posture, body positioning doesn't change.

• 2:09:57Speaker 00

  For striking, the tall, long stance is such an advantage.

• 2:10:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:10:01Speaker 00

  It's a giant advantage. And you could speak to that because like you've been in situations where you've had a spar and, and when you're, or fight people that are much taller than you, it's such a weird thing.

• 2:10:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:10:11Speaker 00

  They're so far away from you and they can hit you and you can't hit them.

• 2:10:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:10:15Speaker 00

  So you have to do all these things to try to get in and, and get reads out of them.

• 2:10:19Speaker 01

  I've never lost to someone shorter than me.

• 2:10:23Speaker 01

  Here, look that up.

• 2:10:26Speaker 00

  But it's such an advantage, man.

• 2:10:29Speaker 01

  That's one of the things why I moved up to like heavyweight, because in middleweight, I was fighting, everyone was taller than me anyway. Like Dorita, Izzy, Drakis, Jemaiav, they're all taller than me.

• 2:10:40Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:10:40Speaker 01

  They're all 6'2", 6'4", so there wasn't much change. There wasn't much difference. These guys are just bigger, obviously heavier and slower.

• 2:10:48Speaker 00

  Well, the freak of the division is Bulgare. You ever see Bulgares? You know, that really tall dude, is a kickboxer?

• 2:10:56Speaker 01

  Oh, yes. Yes, yes, yes. Come over.

• 2:10:58Speaker 00

  How do I, am I pronouncing his name incorrectly?

• 2:11:03Speaker 00

  There's so many names in the UFC that I fuck all of them up. I combine them all together, even ones that I know. I just so my, my brain doesn't recognize it.

• 2:11:11Speaker 01

  It's cause there's also like a ton of the same names in there.

• 2:11:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:11:14Speaker 01

  But there's that many Silvers and Oliveras.

• 2:11:18Speaker 00

  There's a lot of Silvers, a lot of Oliveras. There's a lot of Nermaga Medoffs now, which is a mouthful.

• 2:11:25Speaker 01

  Oh my goodness.

• 2:11:26Speaker 00

  You'll see Bulg, you'll see Bulgari. That's how you say his name. I'm pretty sure. He is the, the really tall, uh, kickboxer that's Alex Pereira's training partner.

• 2:11:36Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 2:11:37Speaker 00

  So he's like 6'6" and he's fighting at 185.

• 2:11:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. Just like Pereira was.

• 2:11:44Speaker 00

  Exactly. Just fucking gigantic. He's so fucking tall for that weight class.

• 2:11:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:50Speaker 00

  And he's elite, elite kickboxer. Just so smooth.

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• 2:13:24Speaker 01

  Do you think he'll be able to? Because Pereira is an anomaly for this. Like, what? How do you think his transition will be?

• 2:13:36Speaker 00

  Well, fortunately, he's training with Pereira, right? And they both were training with Glover, which I think was a big thing. Big part of it because Glover Teixeira for like six years, people don't realize this, before he even got to the UFC, for six years, Glover Teixeira was the boogeyman. He was the guy that everyone was terrified of, but he couldn't get out of Brazil. So he couldn't get a visa to come to America for whatever reason. So he couldn't fight in America. So he was just training and fighting in Brazil and everybody would talk about, when you would talk to the high-level guys, like who's the scariest guy that's not in the UFC? Glover. Glover's a fucking monster. By the time he got to the UFC, he was already in his mid to late 30s. So he had already, and he won the title in his 40s. So he had already passed his prime, probably, you know?

• 2:14:21Speaker 00

  And he is so knowledgeable. He, obviously, elite Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, black belt, phenomenal wrestling, and then great striking as well, and knows how to combine the two of them together. And so with him working with Alex, I think it really sharpened his striking skills. And that's when he won the title. And then on top of that, like when he beat Jan Bolhovic. And then on top of that, him working with Alex really tightened up Alex's takedown defense, really tightened up his grappling game.

• 2:14:49Speaker 01

  Built each other's holes.

• 2:14:50Speaker 00

  Yes. And they're both like super elite at what they do and both very smart.

• 2:14:55Speaker 01

  Jiu-Jitsu top game was crazy. He'd take you down and he's, and he's not like a lay-in prey sort of guy. He'd get you down and he's gonna beat you up.

• 2:15:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, he was mauling people.

• 2:15:06Speaker 01

  Like that Anthony Smith fight?

• 2:15:08Speaker 00

  Oh, God. Yeah. And again, he was a guy that was Chuck Liddell's training partner way back in the day. That's why I first heard about him. Old head from the Pitt days with John Hackelman way back in the day. So I'd heard about Glover way back then and they were like, dude, this guy's a motherfucker, man. And it took forever for him to get to the UFC.

• 2:15:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:15:29Speaker 00

  And so him training, so Bulgari's training with Pereira and Glover, I think is a giant. I'm saying his name right?

• 2:15:38Speaker 03

  I think so.

• 2:15:39Speaker 00

  But pull up, pull up his last fight because he, um,

• 2:15:45Speaker 00

  I'm trying, I can't remember the dude's name. He, uh, here, yeah, that's it, Mansour Abdul Malik. And Abdul, Yorcy Bulgari. And Abdul Malik is super talented and massive potential. And Bulgari just tuned him up, man. Just tuned him up. It's just the difference in striking was so different. I mean, he has a victory over Pereira in kickboxing. Pereira stopped him in one of the fights, knocked him out cold, but they fought three times. But he's that good. So he's that elite on his feet and he's super tall. And because of all the training that he's had with Glover, like look at this. Takedown defense, phenomenal. Get back up to his feet quickly, separates.

• 2:16:29Speaker 01

  He's fighting it well.

• 2:16:30Speaker 00

  And Malik is an excellent wrestler. He's really good and really strong and super athletic and had up until this point been undefeated. Was mauling people inside the UFC. But Yorcy just put it to him, man. It was a bad one too. Because Abdul Malik is so tough that he endured maybe more punishment than he should have and really got badly beaten up in this fight.

• 2:16:55Speaker 01

  When you're that tall as well, you can get such power.

• 2:16:58Speaker 00

  Look at these fucking knees, man.

• 2:17:00Speaker 01

  You've got such big levers.

• 2:17:01Speaker 00

  Yes. Like Tommy Hearns, you know, that, like, you're getting all that leverage behind those shots. The wide shoulders and the length of the arms and it's all like accelerating to the target and all your weights. Look at that left hook. Oh, my goodness. So it's just a matter of time. He just keeps getting touched over and over and over again. And Bulgari's just doing it so slick. And it was, it was just a brutal, brutal beat down. And then he came back, Abdul Malik came back, I think a little too soon in his next fight and lost again. Just didn't seem like the same guy. He was just get, and survived too many of these, man. Too many of these moments where he was getting just destroyed.

• 2:17:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:17:45Speaker 00

  And now he's screaming at him while he's down. Oh, Jesus.

• 2:17:47Speaker 03

  He was saying he was out.

• 2:17:49Speaker 00

  I think that might've been the end of the round.

• 2:17:51Speaker 03

  No, it was, but I think he was also saying he was out.

• 2:17:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:17:54Speaker 03

  The round wasn't calling it.

• 2:17:55Speaker 00

  I think he was. He certainly was close to it and then he got beat up again in the next round.

• 2:17:59Speaker 01

  Tight kickboxing hook.

• 2:18:00Speaker 00

  Exactly. It's just when, you know, and you could speak to this, when you're fighting a guy who's not, that's on his base, you can get so good. If you're a wrestler and you start striking when you're 28, you get pretty good. But there's stuff that happens in a long, prolonged fight where there's a series of exchanges, where there's openings that you're gonna leave that you're not aware of. And then a striker, a seasoned striker is gonna be able to capitalize on those.

• 2:18:25Speaker 01

  And you throw, you throw in fatigue as well. When, when you start relying on instincts and things, like you start like sleepwalking almost. You get that tired. Yeah. If you, if you, you're gonna, you're gonna go back to the roots to what got you to where you are.

• 2:18:40Speaker 00

  Right, right, right. Especially when you're tired. And when a guy's tired, but he's very efficient at striking, you could still throw tight combinations. You still, you don't get wild and loose. Which is one of the craziest things about Strickland. Like when he's tired, he gets wild and loose. Just like literally like windmill punches at an elite level.

• 2:19:02Speaker 01

  And it looks like from all the, like from the clips and his Instagram, he spars like that too. Like he's just, he's just like gassed and throwing bombs. And he's always sparring.

• 2:19:14Speaker 00

  I know, always.

• 2:19:15Speaker 01

  Always sparring.

• 2:19:16Speaker 00

  That's a main part of his training is sparring.

• 2:19:19Speaker 01

  Like if you have his style, you can spar more than others, right? You're not taking the head trauma that his partners are.

• 2:19:24Speaker 00

  That's true. That's one of the things that he spoke to. He said he spars more than anybody and he gets hit less than anybody.

• 2:19:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And I, yeah, that's.

• 2:19:32Speaker 00

  There's something beneficial.

• 2:19:34Speaker 01

  I think his sparring partners probably shouldn't be sparring as much.

• 2:19:39Speaker 00

  But I mean, look, if you could train with that guy, you're gonna learn some stuff.

• 2:19:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:19:44Speaker 00

  That guy, that's like battle tested. He's been in so many fucking wars. He's going through something with the UFC right now where like he says his heart isn't in MMA anymore. He wants to get out and he wants to be able to box Jake Paul.

• 2:19:56Speaker 01

  Oh, I don't know. I don't know. He's like, he's the one guy that, he says some wild crap, but some, a lot of it happens. He gets away with it. Like, like when he said, I'm just gonna sit out until I get my title shot. And I was like, ah, you're an idiot. What are you doing? What are you doing? Lo and behold, two years later, he's fighting for the belt. Like straight, straight up. I don't know.

• 2:20:19Speaker 00

  At the end of the day, he's a fan favorite and that's a big factor. If you're trying to sell a fight and the UFC needs to sell fights. And if you've got a world champion, you know, like Hamzat, and you need someone to fight him, who better to sell the damn fight than Sean Strickland? He's gonna talk mad amounts of shit.

• 2:20:36Speaker 01

  And it's gonna be racist.

• 2:20:40Speaker 01

  It's gonna be racist. And you know, that gets people watching. Just because of the controversy of it all.

• 2:20:47Speaker 00

  Well, he knows how to stir up the pot.

• 2:20:50Speaker 01

  Oh, my goodness, doesn't he?

• 2:20:51Speaker 00

  That's for sure. Were you surprised by the Hamzat fight?

• 2:20:55Speaker 01

  As everyone else was.

• 2:20:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:20:57Speaker 01

  Like I, I don't know what to take from it, like.

• 2:21:01Speaker 00

  I think Hamzat lost too much weight. That's what I had heard. I had heard he had given up on 185 and he wanted to go up to 205 and challenge for the belt and was training and preparing for that. And then they offered him a big money fight with Strickland and he decided to take the fight with Strickland, but I don't think they gave him a lot of time. I don't, I don't think they gave, I think for that guy, he gets so fucking big that I think he needs a lot of time to get down to 185.

• 2:21:24Speaker 01

  That makes more sense to me than Strickland having the perfect anti-Chomayev game.

• 2:21:32Speaker 00

  Well, do you remember when Chomayev missed weight with Nate Diaz by like eight pounds?

• 2:21:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:21:38Speaker 00

  Yeah. It's that kind of thing. It's like, what he, what he was doing was kind of bananas.

• 2:21:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. Which is crazy because he started at welterweight. Same thing. He went, he did that, that fight island, welterweight, middleweight, back to back. Which kind of put him on the map and then he disappeared for a little bit.

• 2:21:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, you know, I mean, he's a controversial character, to put it lightly.

• 2:21:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, very.

• 2:21:59Speaker 00

  But goddamn, when he's on, like when he picked up the leech and he carried him over to Dana White and he's just talking shit while he's mauling him.

• 2:22:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. When you have that level of control, and I'm gonna jump back to that Drakis fight. It's just.

• 2:22:13Speaker 00

  Nuts.

• 2:22:13Speaker 01

  To do that to, to Drakis, to the champion.

• 2:22:17Speaker 00

  I know.

• 2:22:18Speaker 01

  Like it wasn't, it was crazy.

• 2:22:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:22:21Speaker 01

  And even the closest round, which was round five, a lot of those positions were given to him, taken away from him by the ref anyway.

• 2:22:31Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:22:31Speaker 01

  Like, the, the ref was like, all right, here you go. Here's a shot for you, old Drakis.

• 2:22:37Speaker 00

  Well, it was almost like it was enough, like enough control. Like, come on, we wanna see something happen. Get up.

• 2:22:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I got, I wanna get your opinion on, what do you, what do you think about that pressure hold game? Like, because I, like, I...

• 2:22:52Speaker 01

  If someone walks into your house and holds you down for fifteen minutes, you're in trouble.

• 2:22:56Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:22:56Speaker 01

  Regardless.

• 2:22:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:22:58Speaker 01

  But, but like where does it stop of like where it's not fighting anymore?

• 2:23:03Speaker 00

  Right, it's just control.

• 2:23:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, where's that?

• 2:23:05Speaker 00

  It's a good question.

• 2:23:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:23:07Speaker 00

  I am a purist and I believe if someone could hold you down like Ben Askren used to do in Bellator and just give you no

• 2:23:13Speaker 01

  By the rules.

• 2:23:13Speaker 00

  For five rounds, that's it. Like, and if you wanna get up, figure out a way to get up. But if you can't get up, well, you're definitely losing.

• 2:23:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:23:21Speaker 00

  You might not be losing the way Gonzaga will beat Pro Cop.

• 2:23:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:23:25Speaker 00

  But you're losing. You're losing the fight. And I think you have to be a purist. You can't do it entire, and they're like, whoa, no, people stop tuning in. No, they won't. Cause most people aren't gonna fight like that.

• 2:23:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:23:36Speaker 00

  People might boo. Okay, let them boo.

• 2:23:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:23:39Speaker 00

  This is what fighting is.

• 2:23:40Speaker 01

  People are gonna boo anyway.

• 2:23:42Speaker 00

  They're animals.

• 2:23:42Speaker 01

  Always find something to boo about.

• 2:23:45Speaker 00

  Well, it's like, if you had a fight like that after, like, did you see the Salt Lake City card?

• 2:23:49Speaker 01

  Uh, when was that?

• 2:23:50Speaker 00

  That was recently, like a couple of weeks ago. And it was like

• 2:23:53Speaker 01

  Alan?

• 2:23:53Speaker 00

  It was, uh, no, the, uh, main event was, uh, Joshua Van.

• 2:23:58Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 2:23:59Speaker 00

  And, uh, Pantoja, was that LA? No, that was LA. Am I wrong? Yeah, I'm wrong. What was the, no, the main event was, um, uh, it was the women's flyweight title. Yeah. Natalia Silva and, uh, Wong Tong.

• 2:24:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:24:16Speaker 00

  That was the main event. But all the fights up to that were fucking chaos. It was all first round chaos.

• 2:24:22Speaker 01

  I think the most knockouts in the card, wasn't it?

• 2:24:23Speaker 00

  Yes. So Davidson Piguero got knocked out by Peyton Talbot, uh, Rivevix knocked out King Green. Soldich and Chaos Williams was a crazy fight, went to United States, and that was when Roman Kopylov knocked out Ateba Gautier.

• 2:24:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:24:39Speaker 00

  So, so it was all these crazy chaotic fights. And the main event was fucking fantastic. It was a great main event, even though a lot of people were talking shit about it. It was a great fight.

• 2:24:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:24:47Speaker 00

  A lot of fun. But if you had a fight like that on that card, so every, I think it was like ten first round stoppages. If you had a fight where it was just a boring, hold them down and give them noogies, the crowd's gonna go nuts.

• 2:25:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:25:00Speaker 00

  They're gonna, fuck you.

• 2:25:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:25:05Speaker 01

  The fans of this sport are funny, aren't they?

• 2:25:07Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:25:08Speaker 01

  They are funny. They are like the best and worst of them.

• 2:25:11Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:25:12Speaker 01

  They jump ship so quickly. It's like you have one hard fight, like, and you've been fighting for any amount of time and you're washed.

• 2:25:19Speaker 00

  It's eleven knockouts.

• 2:25:21Speaker 01

  I hate

• 2:25:21Speaker 00

  Broke the record, the UFC record for the most knockouts in a single UFC event, surpassing, uh, Imavov versus Bohalio.

• 2:25:29Speaker 01

  That was, that was when, that was Johnny Walker's, um, the heavyweight debut, wasn't it?

• 2:25:34Speaker 00

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 2:25:36Speaker 01

  You know what's funny is, cause I tuned in and I was watching it and I was like, man, I don't like this light heavyweight stuff. Like, cause I remember, I just remember Johnny Walker from being a light heavyweight. When I first saw him, I was like, man, maybe I should go back to middleweight, cause I still thought he was there. And then I saw the heavyweight thing and I was like, ah.

• 2:25:53Speaker 00

  Well, I think he was the point of diminishing returns, where he lost so much weight to make light heavyweight. He couldn't take a shot.

• 2:26:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, at all.

• 2:26:01Speaker 00

  No.

• 2:26:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:26:03Speaker 00

  When Jamal Hill knocked him out and he hit him with a, a straight right to the forehead and he just

• 2:26:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:26:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, I just don't think he could take a shot with that. He was so dehydrated. His brain was dehydrated.

• 2:26:12Speaker 01

  And he did it for so long, though. Like, it, it took so long for him, cause he got hit in that fight too, by heavyweights.

• 2:26:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:26:19Speaker 01

  But also his power carried over.

• 2:26:21Speaker 00

  A hundred percent. Well, he was always powerful.

• 2:26:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:26:25Speaker 00

  Like real, and when you're two oh five, the difference between a guy who can knock you out at two oh five and a guy who can knock you out above that, it's not much.

• 2:26:32Speaker 01

  No, not much at all.

• 2:26:33Speaker 00

  But those big guys like that.

• 2:26:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:26:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:26:36Speaker 01

  There are the one, once you're above two oh five, everyone's got that touch of death almost. Like, that's how I treat training right now. It's just like, just

• 2:26:45Speaker 00

  So do you, you approach like fighting differently now? Like, are you thinking differently as you're fighting because you can't make any mistakes?

• 2:26:53Speaker 01

  Definitely, definitely, definitely. And can I, can I quickly run to the bathroom before answering that?

• 2:26:59Speaker 00

  I'll be right back, folks. We gotta pee. And we're back. Where we're, okay, so we're talking about you training differently and fighting differently with bigger guys. And that you have a very distinctly different mindset.

• 2:27:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, definitely. Uh, it's, well, it all started like when I was at my last fight at middleweight with Dorito. I did not enjoy that camp. I did not enjoy that fight. Like, something was missing. I was like, I, the, the, the flame, the flare, the fire kinda fizzled out a little bit. And, uh, at that point, I was like, man, what am I doing? Gotta, something has to change. I'm not enjoying it as I should be. And obviously, obviously, the twelve week camp or whatever you do before the, before the fight

• 2:27:44Speaker 01

  leads itself a lot to that. Like, it, it lends itself. Yeah, it, it makes the whole thing a drag, you know? But then the changes, I was like, well, let's go to light heavyweight. People have been saying for years, like, you should go to light heavyweight. Cause I've always been a heavier set guy. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna do this. And then, but more than that needed to change. I wanted to enjoy fighting. I wanted to bring the love back for it. So I just started up being a bit freer. You know how we were talking about a happy Rob is

• 2:28:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:28:11Speaker 01

  Dennis, but I started being a bit freer. I stopped, like, whilst fighting is, like, I'm hyper focused on fighting. And that is like something, that is the objective, that is the goal. It, I took a little bit off, stepped away a little bit from it so that I could go to my kids' soccer games. You know, instead of running sand hills, like things like that. I started enjoying kind of the moments between fighting, which is, there's a lot, right? So just, just enjoying that made such a big mental difference. And then I took that into the workroom. And in the workroom, a big thing was just like,

• 2:28:52Speaker 01

  let's not get hit. Let's try not to get hit at all. These guys are big guys. They have, every one of them has the touch of death. Let's, let's not, let's not play around with that. Let's not roll the dice.

• 2:29:03Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:29:03Speaker 01

  Try to be as evasive and as technical as I can. Cause that's where I see me having than, like, everyone else in the division. I think my skill set is higher holistically across the board. And, yeah, that, that, that took me into that fight. And I, like, I, I felt really comfortable. Obviously, I was fighting a lot of nervous demons. And, and nerves, like coming off two losses, making the move up, everyone's seen that story.

• 2:29:28Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:29:28Speaker 01

  But, but yeah, no, it was for the, it was for the better.

• 2:29:33Speaker 00

  For the better mentally, like the way you felt?

• 2:29:35Speaker 01

  Definitely, definitely. I felt, I felt way better. The camp was much more enjoyable. The tricky part is now, the after camp, kinda, the after the fight, period, block. Cause I'm a bigger guy and I can eat more. I'm gonna like, eating is a slippery slope.

• 2:29:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, tell me about it.

• 2:29:55Speaker 00

  I'm a glutton. I know what you're talking about, man.

• 2:29:57Speaker 01

  Everyone can relate.

• 2:29:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:29:59Speaker 01

  It's just, it's, it, so I'm trying to work on that still, because whereas like, when middleweight, I could, you know, you, I'd get bigger, but you can't go too crazy, cause you know you gotta get back down eighty-five at one point.

• 2:30:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:30:14Speaker 01

  Whereas in light heavyweight, I can eat everything.

• 2:30:16Speaker 00

  What are you walking around at before you start your cut?

• 2:30:18Speaker 01

  Uh, I'm a hundred and six kilos now. So is that two thirty-two?

• 2:30:23Speaker 00

  Not too bad.

• 2:30:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:30:25Speaker 00

  But still, twenty-five pounds.

• 2:30:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, I can, like, I can train now. I don't, but not great. I wanna, I like, I don't wanna start a camp at this weight. Put it that way.

• 2:30:35Speaker 00

  Right, right.

• 2:30:36Speaker 01

  I, I think it's too heavy to start a camp.

• 2:30:37Speaker 00

  And when do you, what do you get down to when you start your camp?

• 2:30:40Speaker 01

  Probably one oh three. So that's, I don't know, two twenty, no.

• 2:30:46Speaker 00

  Two twenty-five?

• 2:30:47Speaker 03

  Ten pounds less. It's two point two zero five per pound or per kilo per to, transferred to pounds.

• 2:30:54Speaker 00

  So what is the total?

• 2:30:55Speaker 03

  Three would be like seven. It's like six point six pounds.

• 2:30:58Speaker 00

  So what's the total?

• 2:31:00Speaker 03

  What?

• 2:31:00Speaker 01

  It'd be like two twenty-five-ish?

• 2:31:03Speaker 03

  From, yeah, from two thirty-two, yeah, just dropping down six.

• 2:31:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, some odd.

• 2:31:08Speaker 00

  So just enough?

• 2:31:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:31:10Speaker 00

  Do you get close?

• 2:31:11Speaker 01

  Well, you just, just lose a little bit of that beer gut.

• 2:31:14Speaker 00

  What do you get down to like the week of the fight?

• 2:31:17Speaker 01

  I, I do my cut in the bath at two twenty.

• 2:31:21Speaker 00

  Ooh, okay. So you're still cutting fifteen?

• 2:31:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, oh, yeah, yeah.

• 2:31:26Speaker 00

  Interesting.

• 2:31:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, cause it's, like I, I mentioned, I'm a good sweater. So I can, I can do that in about an hour and a half.

• 2:31:33Speaker 00

  Fifteen pounds?

• 2:31:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:31:34Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 2:31:35Speaker 01

  Just hop in the bath, hour and a half.

• 2:31:37Speaker 00

  The bath is the move?

• 2:31:39Speaker 01

  I've done, cause I've been fighting so long and when I started, like, you couldn't just Google how to cut weight. You just get these wrestling sort of camps.

• 2:31:46Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:31:47Speaker 01

  Very different. Like, they'd be like, go for a fifteen mile run, wrapped up in sweats, which I did. I, that's how I started. It's how everyone cut weight in the beginning, right? You put on your sweats, you go for a run.

• 2:31:57Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:31:58Speaker 01

  But, but I did, I did sauna. The, the problem with the sauna is if I stay too long in there, my esophagus dries out sometimes. And like, it like burns if, if, if it's hot enough.

• 2:32:09Speaker 00

  How hot are you getting in there?

• 2:32:11Speaker 01

  I'm not sure. Like, I wanna sweat, cause, cause like when you start sweating, may, maybe it was too hot for too long, but, um,

• 2:32:17Speaker 00

  I talked to Ethan Ewing about that.

• 2:32:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:32:19Speaker 00

  And one of the things that he was saying is he, he doesn't do it at like a really high temperature. He does it at like one sixty-five, I think he was saying.

• 2:32:26Speaker 01

  Well, I know the science is supports that. You just need it to be hot enough.

• 2:32:31Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:32:31Speaker 01

  To sweat. So, but that's kind of our approach.

• 2:32:35Speaker 00

  Not really weaken yourself. That was his take.

• 2:32:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:32:38Speaker 00

  Really high temperatures, you're actually breaking your body down too much. And you could sweat as much at a lower temperature, but you're not, you're not gonna be like tortured.

• 2:32:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. That, that's kind of why I do bath, because you, you just put it, you put it warm, you hop in, lay down, you're resting, you know, it's like, training or like running or moving or hitting mitts while I'm dehydrating, like, when I have to fight the day after.

• 2:33:01Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:33:02Speaker 01

  You know, you're

• 2:33:03Speaker 00

  Wearing yourself out.

• 2:33:03Speaker 01

  I feel like I'm wearing myself out. I don't have the water to like sustain the muscles, you know, it's just, it's just, and it's like, you can just chill out, put some music on.

• 2:33:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, that makes sense.

• 2:33:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I find it like comfortable almost.

• 2:33:16Speaker 00

  Well, people are finding all sorts of different ways to figure. Do you waterload?

• 2:33:21Speaker 01

  Hit and miss with that one.

• 2:33:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:33:23Speaker 01

  Because I don't know if it actually works.

• 2:33:26Speaker 00

  Really?

• 2:33:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, because like I'll, I'll do it and it'll come off, but I don't know if the water's just, if the weight's coming off just because the diet change or if because it's actually because of the water. And also like depending on who you speak to, people waterload differently. Some guys like re- restrict it, some guys go backwards, some guys go up to only a certain amount, some guys go as high as they can. It's just, it's all kind of different. I think I do it now more as like superstition.

• 2:33:57Speaker 00

  That's funny. Just because you think you're supposed to.

• 2:34:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, and because like it'd be worse if it does, if, if it did work. And I get in the bath and I have to cut like twenty pounds.

• 2:34:10Speaker 00

  Right. Yeah. Have you ever done it with like one of those elite weight cutting coaches? Like there's a few of those guys that people bring in that are like real experts in monitoring the exact amount of sodium you take and the exact amount of water you drink at this day and the amount that you drink at that day and they get you perfectly to that threshold?

• 2:34:30Speaker 01

  No, no, I haven't. But I've got to ask you, like how much, especially in like, if we look at the grassroots of fighting, like we are just two men with sticks and rocks, right? We're just like cavemen, like how, how much sometimes does science dilute? What it is we're doing, we're just unga boongering. You know, we are like.

• 2:34:56Speaker 00

  Sort of, but also super skillful.

• 2:34:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:35:00Speaker 00

  There's like, there's both things that are happening simultaneously. It's like

• 2:35:03Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:35:03Speaker 00

  skill and technique, but it's also fucking rah.

• 2:35:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:35:07Speaker 00

  That's in there too.

• 2:35:08Speaker 01

  And that'll get you so far.

• 2:35:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:35:11Speaker 01

  Having that dog.

• 2:35:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:35:13Speaker 01

  Like that guy that'll go further than you will.

• 2:35:16Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:35:16Speaker 01

  And a lot, most, most fighters have it, but I wonder sometimes if the science, if, if sometimes we get too caught up in science. Cause you see that a lot with like today's like younger guys coming in, like their parents are getting them into it because they've been watching UFC their whole life. So the kids starting mixed martial arts with like an elite program. And, and they're like doing the best things, eating the best foods, like, and they get too technical when, when, when a lot of the guys that are champions and stuff like that, they're just punching on in garages.

• 2:35:49Speaker 00

  Right. Or Strickland.

• 2:35:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:35:51Speaker 00

  Look at Strickland, like that's not the most scientific approach, just to constantly spar and, and talk shit to people while you're sparring them.

• 2:35:58Speaker 01

  To, to, to be fair, like he's, he's able to constantly spar because he's beating people up.

• 2:36:07Speaker 00

  But he's beating good people up.

• 2:36:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure it'd be different. It was like getting brain damage every time he stepped in there.

• 2:36:13Speaker 00

  Yes. Yeah. Well, he's got a very elusive style. It's, it's a weird style.

• 2:36:18Speaker 01

  Tricky, isn't it?

• 2:36:18Speaker 00

  Stands straight up, hard to take down, teep kicks to the body. And a lot of it is predicated on that left, that right leg being all fucked up. You know, he blew his leg apart in a motorcycle accident.

• 2:36:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:36:29Speaker 00

  He's missing a big piece of his quad.

• 2:36:31Speaker 01

  His story is actually like really cool, like his comeback story.

• 2:36:35Speaker 00

  It's kind of crazy.

• 2:36:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:36:36Speaker 00

  He's a very unusual guy and very underestimated in terms of his intelligence because he says so many wild things.

• 2:36:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:36:43Speaker 00

  But he fights intelligently and it's, it's a difficult style. Like you see him when he fought Fluffy Hernandez. Like Hernandez was on a tear up into that fight.

• 2:36:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:36:52Speaker 00

  And Strickland just beat the brakes off of him.

• 2:36:54Speaker 01

  Easily.

• 2:36:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:36:55Speaker 01

  Like it wasn't.

• 2:36:56Speaker 00

  The brakes.

• 2:36:57Speaker 01

  It wasn't close. It wasn't close. And the, the fans, the fans are brutal because like they just, as soon as that happened, everyone was like, fraud check, fraud check.

• 2:37:06Speaker 00

  That's the worst.

• 2:37:07Speaker 01

  Oh, they're the worst.

• 2:37:08Speaker 00

  Fraud check thing, fuck you.

• 2:37:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:37:10Speaker 00

  There's so many casuals and not just casuals, but cruel people, like they say cruel things for engagement.

• 2:37:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:37:17Speaker 00

  And they think they're being intelligent when they're saying it like, fuck off, man, you're a cunt.

• 2:37:20Speaker 01

  And, and fighting is like, it is the most primal, vulnerable position two men can be in.

• 2:37:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:37:29Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Like these are two guys out there putting their souls on the line with the consequence of getting knocked out in front of their friends and friends and family and the world.

• 2:37:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:37:37Speaker 01

  It's like, no one takes that risk, except these guys for your entertainment.

• 2:37:42Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:37:43Speaker 01

  And, and then these guys just backstab us.

• 2:37:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:37:47Speaker 01

  It's brutal. It's brutal.

• 2:37:48Speaker 00

  Usually the loudest voices are the biggest pussies. The biggest pussies.

• 2:37:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:37:54Speaker 00

  And you know, it's like, I heard a lot of that from Peyton Talbot after, after he lost to Howie Barcellos.

• 2:37:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:38:00Speaker 00

  They were saying fraud check, fraud check. No, no, no, no, no. He found an area of his game that he needs to improve. And then look what happened when he came back.

• 2:38:07Speaker 01

  Then he did.

• 2:38:08Speaker 00

  And he figured it out. He figured it out, bitch. And he came back and fucked up Henry Cejudo. Killing people.

• 2:38:14Speaker 01

  He's killing people. He's so good.

• 2:38:16Speaker 00

  He's so good. I, I really hope that fight with him and Sugar Sean O'Malley takes place. I really hope that fight takes place because I think.

• 2:38:24Speaker 01

  Such a good fight.

• 2:38:25Speaker 00

  That is a gigantic fight and such a good fight on paper, you know?

• 2:38:30Speaker 01

  Do you reckon Peyton wrestles? Cause he can wrestle.

• 2:38:33Speaker 00

  He can wrestle. I mean, he, he certainly did with Henry Cejudo. It's possible. I mean, that's a, an area of, of his game that he just jumped way up after the Howie Barcellos fight.

• 2:38:44Speaker 01

  Oh my God. He just, yeah, like he, he took the wrestling to Cejudo.

• 2:38:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's crazy. When he took Cejudo down, I was like, this is madness. Like this kid is special.

• 2:38:53Speaker 01

  Oh, it's cheeky.

• 2:38:54Speaker 00

  He's very special. He's very, very unique in his, his approach to this.

• 2:38:58Speaker 01

  And you can tell he's feeling himself right now.

• 2:39:00Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:39:00Speaker 01

  Like he's flowing. He's in that flow state right now.

• 2:39:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, man. And he loves it. He loves competing. He loves fighting. He really do. Really, really does. To me, there's a lot of great fights for him and I understand Sean's position. If I was Sean, I would not take that fight right now either. Because Piotr Jan and Rob Dabish will, they're gonna fight this weekend. And if Piotr Jan wins again.

• 2:39:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:39:21Speaker 00

  The big fight is him and Sean O'Malley because the last fight that he lost was to Sean O'Malley.

• 2:39:25Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:39:26Speaker 00

  So that is an amazing.

• 2:39:27Speaker 01

  And it was close.

• 2:39:28Speaker 00

  It was very close.

• 2:39:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:39:29Speaker 00

  Very, and also a three-rounder.

• 2:39:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:39:31Speaker 00

  Right? So imagine if that fight goes five, who knows what happens, right? It gets crazy. I think.

• 2:39:37Speaker 01

  And that's where the money is too.

• 2:39:39Speaker 00

  The money's there. Well, also it's like, that's the fight you want. Like, yeah, Peyton Talbot would be a good fight for the fans, but that's not the right fight to take right now.

• 2:39:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:39:47Speaker 00

  It's great for Peyton. Yeah, I mean, but there's a lot of great fights for Peyton. There's so many good names.

• 2:39:52Speaker 01

  Cause he's just, yeah, he's right up there. He's just dismantling people too.

• 2:39:55Speaker 00

  So many good fights in that division. There's so many good fights in that division. That division is just fucking chock full of talent.

• 2:40:03Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 2:40:04Speaker 00

  You know, one thirty-five right now is a, like, I think.

• 2:40:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a melting pot, isn't it?

• 2:40:08Speaker 00

  The biggest divisions right now are probably like fifty is, fifty-five is insane. Fifty-five is just fucking insane. There's so much talent at fifty-five.

• 2:40:17Speaker 01

  It's fun right now.

• 2:40:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's fun. Seventy's fucking insane.

• 2:40:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:40:21Speaker 00

  You know, it's like there's forty-five is insane and fifty-five is all laying on whether or not Justin decides to retire. Or whether, what do, what does he do? Who does he fight?

• 2:40:31Speaker 01

  Who, who do you think he fights?

• 2:40:33Speaker 00

  I think Armin's the fight.

• 2:40:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:40:35Speaker 00

  The big fight is Armin, especially after what Armin did to Hoofy. That's the big fight. And also it's like, that's the most compelling fight because Armin looks like indestructible.

• 2:40:44Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:40:45Speaker 00

  He, he looks like the guy.

• 2:40:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and he's like, that Hoofy really made a statement, really cemented the argument. And arguably he's already supposed to fight for the title.

• 2:40:56Speaker 00

  Right. If it wasn't for that one thing where he hurt his back the day before he's fighting Islam.

• 2:41:00Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:41:01Speaker 00

  It would have already happened.

• 2:41:02Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:41:02Speaker 00

  And look, he fought Islam in his first fight ever in the UFC on short notice. Right. And that close. I mean, razor close decision loss.

• 2:41:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:41:12Speaker 00

  To, to Islam.

• 2:41:14Speaker 01

  One of the best ever.

• 2:41:15Speaker 00

  Yeah. So he's really fucking good and that's the fight. However, if I was, if I was Justin and I'm looking at the landscape and I'm like, well, who do I fight? I mean, you could fight if Oliveira wins in his next fight and Oliveira retains the BMF title. And then Justin fights him for the, in a rematch for the BMF title and for the lightweight title together. I could see that fight too, but it seems like you're denying Armon what he's deserved.

• 2:41:46Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:41:46Speaker 00

  Armon deserves a title fight.

• 2:41:48Speaker 01

  And he's been fighting.

• 2:41:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:41:49Speaker 01

  Like, and fighting Hoofy, especially after the performances Hoofy's been putting on lately.

• 2:41:54Speaker 00

  The one in the White House against Chandler, that was an execution.

• 2:41:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:41:57Speaker 00

  That was, that one was crazy.

• 2:41:58Speaker 01

  I saw that coming, but.

• 2:42:00Speaker 00

  Saw it coming.

• 2:42:00Speaker 01

  I think everyone saw it coming.

• 2:42:03Speaker 00

  I was, you know, saying Chandler, I really hope you figure something out here.

• 2:42:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:42:07Speaker 00

  But you know, it's Chandler's style is so difficult to handle that long, tall, elite striker at this stage of his life. I mean Chandler's forty.

• 2:42:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:42:17Speaker 00

  At this stage of his life.

• 2:42:18Speaker 01

  That makes me wonder, it's like, look at, look at Gagey, look at Chandler, look at like most of the guys in my division. I think I'm one of the younger ones.

• 2:42:25Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:42:26Speaker 01

  You know, like, why do you, the age of, of, of these athletes are just going up.

• 2:42:31Speaker 00

  Well, I think with proper training and with all the different sports science modalities today, like particularly people that are using hyperbaric chambers, red light therapy, saunas, cold plunges, massage, all these different training methods that they're doing to strengthen all their tissues and make sure they don't get injured and increasing their cardio scientifically and all the nutrition. Everybody's got everything dialed in. You can extend your lifespan a, a lot further than you could a few years back.

• 2:43:00Speaker 01

  Well, I, I hold a great belief in longevity. Like that's why me and my wife actually just created an app that like really focuses on sports science, longevity.

• 2:43:11Speaker 00

  What's it called?

• 2:43:12Speaker 01

  Ascend Fitness by Rob.

• 2:43:13Speaker 00

  Ascend Fitness by Rob. All right.

• 2:43:15Speaker 01

  There's something.

• 2:43:16Speaker 00

  Like, so what's, there it is.

• 2:43:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:43:19Speaker 00

  Handsome bastard. So what is, uh, what's going on in this? What's in the app?

• 2:43:25Speaker 01

  It's, it's honestly, it's programs just like built around making like what got me to be able to perform for so long, cause you know how rare it is to be able to fight at this level for the length of time.

• 2:43:37Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:43:38Speaker 01

  Like that, that's always the hardest thing is longevity. The turnover rate in the UFC is like super fast. So like performance, doing these little things, performance training, conditioning to make life better. We just wanna make life better, but what we do differently, and this is kind of an avenue that I started playing with the idea when I wasn't going on a title run before I had my success in my last fight. It's like, I wanna move into like health, fitness with my wife. I always wanna do with my wife, cause she's the one that got me into everything. So I wanted to, to be able to give back, create an immunity, uh, community, get guys on board, start working up. Like we have monthly Q and A's where people can talk to me. Like I want to get to know people. I wanna be able to tell them, like, give me questions.

• 2:44:23Speaker 01

  We have a bunch of coaches on board that can give like form feedback straight away, but also just to talk to. I think that's so important, especially with training. Like you need that human element of what's going on, how you're feeling, where's your head at? Because that, as we've spoke earlier, it's like happy rovers are dangerous rovers. That mental, that mental ability, it's like when you're, you know, when you're feeling on top of the world and you can do anything? Like we try and make sure you have that every day, just by check-ins, by talking and things like that.

• 2:44:53Speaker 00

  I'm gonna sneeze. I'm gonna hope I don't blow my back out.

• 2:44:59Speaker 00

  Cause some of that fucking thing hurts and I'm like, alright, I'm, I'm okay.

• 2:45:03Speaker 01

  Flex that core.

• 2:45:04Speaker 00

  So have you ever worked with a, a sports psychologist?

• 2:45:08Speaker 01

  Uh, I've, yeah, through, throughout my career, I have, I, I spoke to, um, I spoke to one, but, uh.

• 2:45:13Speaker 00

  What do they do for you?

• 2:45:15Speaker 01

  It depends. I, I think, I think guys, and this is just my take, okay? Cause there's, everyone has their own take on, on, on everything. I think guys sometimes just need to talk, like just shit talk, you know? Like that, I think that's why pub culture was so important for, for men, you know? Going through the years, because they, they, they lower their guard a little bit and they just start shit talking. This is like, what we're doing now? This is great, we can just start, we're just talking and, and in that, I'm venting, I'm letting out stresses, I'm saying things that make me vulnerable. I'm saying things that like, I just want another opinion on, because like sometimes you, you just need to say something and then you need the other guy to be like, nah, you're a pussy.

• 2:46:00Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? And sometimes that gets you going. You're like, you know what? Yes. Or he goes, nah, it'd be alright. And you know, you're just, just talking. I think talking is so important.

• 2:46:09Speaker 00

  Right. So like it, it helps you come to grips with whatever the thing is bouncing around inside your head by yourself.

• 2:46:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, because as men, as, as fighters, some of our thoughts aren't like talk to your wife thoughts.

• 2:46:25Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Like, do all the women out there, this, this one's to the bed, like, that, we get it, you get it. Like our, our thoughts are sometimes stupid, but we, we just need a place to put them.

• 2:46:37Speaker 00

  Right. And, and put them with another man who's gonna understand, dude, I get it. Someone's gonna say, I get it.

• 2:46:43Speaker 01

  I think so. And then, and obviously that's why like support circles and friends and family are super important. Like having those guys you can turn to and just, and just, just talk to, man, you know?

• 2:46:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, that's what, when, when guys run afoul in their gym and have to leave the gym, that's always like a giant problem. Because that, the people that you train with on a daily basis, you spar with, you, you grind with, those are like brothers.

• 2:47:13Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:47:13Speaker 00

  And people who have gone to competition with people that they've trained with constantly, like you have so much invested in them. Like you, you, it hurt, it's sometimes, I've seen this with training partners where their friends fighting makes them more nervous than when they're fighting.

• 2:47:29Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:47:30Speaker 00

  Cause the love that they have for these guys.

• 2:47:31Speaker 01

  I can't go to any of my teammates' fights, like it kills me. Like it just, it just kills me. But you're, you're a hundred percent right, like guys you've bled and sweat within, in the gym for any amount of time. Like you, you build a connection there, like even if you don't like them, like there's heaps of guys in my gym that like I don't bond with. Like I wanna go, I'm not gonna go to them and be like, hey, let's go grab some food.

• 2:47:52Speaker 00

  But you still root for them.

• 2:47:53Speaker 01

  Uh, if he, if he calls me up and says, I need help, I'm getting, I'm there, I'm in the car already, like we're that close.

• 2:48:00Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:48:00Speaker 01

  Or, or if like, if he's like, like, yeah, it's just, you build that sort of bond, like it's a brotherhood.

• 2:48:06Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:48:06Speaker 01

  You know, and.

• 2:48:07Speaker 00

  So when you see a guy like leave a gym, it's like.

• 2:48:10Speaker 01

  I've never had, yeah, that's gotta be huge. I've never had that happen.

• 2:48:14Speaker 00

  I don't know what happened with Izzy, you know, I don't know what's going on, but I know he left City Kickboxing and that was a stunner for me. I was like, I can't believe, cause Eugene Bearman has been a, a staple part of his career.

• 2:48:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:48:25Speaker 00

  And he's an amazing coach, like he's so good and he's such a mastermind. He's one of the few real legitimate masterminds in the sport. So when I saw that, I was like, oh no, like that's a bad place to be, like psychologically, you leave the family.

• 2:48:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, and, and, and for all I know, I think he's still living in New Zealand too. And that was, that was huge for me because I, I had just trained with him there. Like I was just training with him there and then, you know, I found that out and obviously I'm still gonna go to CKB and stuff cause I have a good relationship with them and I did some really good work with it. And for me, everywhere, everywhere is so far for Australia. Australia's on the ass end of nowhere. I realized that coming flying here, it was like to, to get to Austin, it was like seventeen and a half hours of flight time.

• 2:49:14Speaker 00

  Oh my god.

• 2:49:15Speaker 01

  Like, why, why, we're so far?

• 2:49:19Speaker 00

  Well, that's why people wanna build bunkers over there.

• 2:49:22Speaker 01

  Exactly. The selling point.

• 2:49:25Speaker 00

  All those fucking billionaire dudes who are like worried about the end of the world, they all get a bunker in either New Zealand or Australia.

• 2:49:32Speaker 01

  Well, that, that's, that's why I like New Zealand, cause obviously like the Kiwis guys, they're big boys. And you've got some good prospects like Navajo, Sterling right now, Carlos Ulberg, obviously. Tyson Pedro, like these big boys that I can work with. But for me, it's only like three hours.

• 2:49:49Speaker 00

  That's not bad.

• 2:49:49Speaker 01

  Two, yeah, like three hour flight. That's great. That's great, like, yeah, can't ask for more.

• 2:49:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, you guys live in a crazy country. It's so big and there's so few people in it. So it's so, everything's so far away.

• 2:50:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, but, but a lot of like the non, I don't know, a lot of it's desert.

• 2:50:07Speaker 00

  I know, but you have the population of Los Angeles in a country the size of the United States.

• 2:50:13Speaker 01

  Don't say it like that. Don't say it like that. You guys are always like.

• 2:50:16Speaker 00

  It's not a bad thing.

• 2:50:17Speaker 01

  You guys always come over, you're like, oh, that's cute.

• 2:50:19Speaker 00

  No, listen, I love Australia. I love it there. I love the people, they're very friendly, it's a fun culture. I, I really do love Australia, but I mean, the, the, just the, the actual geography of Australia is crazy and it's filled with things that wanna kill you.

• 2:50:35Speaker 01

  Yes, like.

• 2:50:36Speaker 00

  Well, you guys gotta start killing those crocodiles.

• 2:50:38Speaker 01

  No, but you like.

• 2:50:39Speaker 00

  Bring back killing crocodiles, make that fun again.

• 2:50:42Speaker 01

  Make that, make that fun.

• 2:50:43Speaker 00

  Why are you guys letting the crocodiles live? That's insane, they're protected and they're eating people.

• 2:50:48Speaker 01

  They're not eating people.

• 2:50:49Speaker 00

  They're eating people.

• 2:50:50Speaker 01

  Oh mate, if you are stupid enough, see if you're stupid enough, if you're stupid enough to go for a swim in the river that you clearly can't see the bottom of.

• 2:51:00Speaker 00

  This is how I feel. If I live in a place and I'm a human, anything else that lives in the place that wants to kill me should be dead. Dead. Fuck you, this is my ground. I'm the person, I'm, I'm the one with the brain, the opposable thumbs, and I have the guns. Fuck off, if you wanna eat my kids, I kill all of you, there's none of you left. I put a few of you in a zoo and we could stare at you from behind the glass. Fuck you forever.

• 2:51:28Speaker 01

  It's funny, alligators seem cute by comparison to crocs.

• 2:51:31Speaker 00

  They do.

• 2:51:31Speaker 01

  Like alligators are kinda like dopey crocs.

• 2:51:34Speaker 00

  Have you ever seen what happens when they get the two of them together? And they feed them, so they, there's this, uh, place in Florida where they have alligators and crocodiles all intermingling and Nile crocodiles. And so when they, when they feed them, the crocodiles run over the top of the alligator's heads to get the food. They're like, fuck you, give me that food bitch.

• 2:51:54Speaker 01

  You're just a pretend croc anyway.

• 2:51:57Speaker 00

  It's like the difference between a fucking golden retriever and a pit bull.

• 2:52:02Speaker 01

  The, the thing that gets me, like brown snakes are annoying, they're, I, I hate those, cause I've got kids.

• 2:52:07Speaker 00

  Well, cause they kill you.

• 2:52:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're, they're very poisonous, very venomous.

• 2:52:09Speaker 00

  Only a person in Australia would say they're annoying.

• 2:52:12Speaker 01

  Well, because, but they don't, they don't hang out with you. It's not like they're trying to invade, they just.

• 2:52:17Speaker 00

  Oh, I understand.

• 2:52:18Speaker 01

  You just don't go into any hot bushes.

• 2:52:21Speaker 00

  But the spiders. You have to go into a hot bush.

• 2:52:23Speaker 01

  The funnel webs as well, they're very venomous, but just don't put your hands in any wet holes.

• 2:52:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:52:32Speaker 00

  Always good advice anyway.

• 2:52:33Speaker 01

  Good, good advice.

• 2:52:34Speaker 00

  Solid advice.

• 2:52:34Speaker 01

  Can keep you out of trouble, trust me guys, take them to the bank.

• 2:52:37Speaker 00

  It's just, you have so many different bugs and spiders, like my friend Adam Greentree, he lives over there. He just got bit two months ago by some fucking spider when he was camping.

• 2:52:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:52:47Speaker 00

  And it's like lethal, he almost died.

• 2:52:49Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:52:50Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:52:50Speaker 01

  Really?

• 2:52:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, I forget what it's called, some green something or another. He told me, and apparently he, it didn't even get him. What happened was as he slapped it, it was crawling on him and as he slapped it, its, its stinger went into him a little bit. But not enough to kill him, cause otherwise it would have been lethal.

• 2:53:07Speaker 01

  No, really?

• 2:53:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:53:08Speaker 01

  You know, and I thought of this just now, maybe the reason why we let them all live is to keep people out.

• 2:53:15Speaker 00

  It's not a bad idea.

• 2:53:16Speaker 01

  That's a great idea.

• 2:53:16Speaker 00

  Right. You keep your population low, it's like less problems.

• 2:53:20Speaker 01

  Cause like a lot of Americans are like, Australia's, everything's starting to kill you, I'm never gonna go to Australia. It's like.

• 2:53:26Speaker 00

  It's not that bad. Like I have, I have friends that go over there and hunt all the time, but it's, uh, it is a great country in terms of like the, the spirit of the people.

• 2:53:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:53:35Speaker 00

  They're a fun people. But generally speaking, Australians are fun. It's a great place to do comedy. It's like they, they, they have a good time.

• 2:53:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:53:42Speaker 00

  It's like, it's a great drinking culture, it's a great laughing culture, it's a lot of fun.

• 2:53:46Speaker 01

  The drinking culture is a slippery slope.

• 2:53:49Speaker 01

  Because we probably like it a bit too much.

• 2:53:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, as it is everywhere where it's fun.

• 2:53:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:53:55Speaker 00

  It's fucking Ireland or anywhere.

• 2:53:58Speaker 01

  The vibe at the the club last night was just amazing. The energy was so good. It was my first time and that has sparked my ambition to go to ones in in Sydney and and stuff.

• 2:54:11Speaker 00

  Well, there's a great comic that lived in Austin for a while and he moved to Australia, James McCann. He's one of my favorites. He's one of the best up and coming comics in the world right now and fucking hilarious Australian dude. And he went back. He his wife just had a new baby and she wanted to like get help with the family. And so they went back to Australia, but he's planning on coming back to America again. But if he's performing in Australia, I'll send you to him. Because he's fucking great. He's so funny.

• 2:54:39Speaker 01

  I've got.

• 2:54:39Speaker 00

  There he is. McCann.

• 2:54:41Speaker 03

  Performing in November.

• 2:54:43Speaker 00

  Oh, there he is. So Perth, Adelaide, Sydney and Brisbane.

• 2:54:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:54:47Speaker 00

  Uh, in November. Yeah, go see that dude.

• 2:54:50Speaker 01

  I've got the itch now.

• 2:54:51Speaker 00

  Fucking brilliant.

• 2:54:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've got the itch. That was that was a great time.

• 2:54:55Speaker 00

  It's fun, right?

• 2:54:56Speaker 01

  Oh, it was great. It was great. It was just like relaxed. Everyone's laughing. Like laughter is special.

• 2:55:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:55:03Speaker 01

  It's special. It gives you a special sort of energy. I'm very big on energy of people and stuff like that. So when you get you put them all in one place and it's just.

• 2:55:12Speaker 00

  With one goal, to have a good time.

• 2:55:14Speaker 01

  Exactly. And that's it's one of the few places in the world, really, where everyone comes with like no baggage.

• 2:55:22Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:55:22Speaker 01

  Like no one comes with any sort of expectation of everyone has the same goal, same objective.

• 2:55:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, good intentions. Go there to have a good time. And that's sort of burned into the spirit of the building by this point. You know, we've been open for a few years. It's like just I have a real really believe that like. The Comedy Store in L A is a great example of that. When you go there, it's like burned into the walls of the building, the laughter, all the years of fun, excitement.

• 2:55:47Speaker 01

  The cold like the energy seeped into the concrete. Yeah. And you can you can feel it. You can feel it's like I've got a culture. It's like a heaviness to it when you walk through it. It was cool. It was cool. Can't thank you enough.

• 2:55:58Speaker 00

  That's awesome, brother. I'm glad you had a good time and I'm glad we did this. You know, I've been a fan of yours for a long time and I've always loved hearing you talk in interviews. I'm like, that'd be a fun guy to have on the podcast. And you are, you're great, man.

• 2:56:09Speaker 01

  This has been so much fun.

• 2:56:11Speaker 00

  Oh, my pleasure. You should probably do your own podcast. You'd be great at it.

• 2:56:14Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, I I do have one on YouTube.

• 2:56:17Speaker 00

  Oh, you do?

• 2:56:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, M M Arcade. We just talk about like fights and and like video games.

• 2:56:23Speaker 00

  Oh, nice. Like Mighty Mouse?

• 2:56:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Well, yes, yes, to a degree.

• 2:56:28Speaker 00

  Nice. Have you done his podcast?

• 2:56:29Speaker 01

  I have plenty of times. He's a great guy to talk to.

• 2:56:31Speaker 00

  I fucking love that dude.

• 2:56:32Speaker 01

  Another energy, another piece of energy. Like he just he his vibes when you're talking to him. Because you know what it is? And it's not rocket science. You just have to be invested in the person you're talking to.

• 2:56:42Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:56:43Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 2:56:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, for real. You have to really be there.

• 2:56:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's it. And and he's great at that. You're obviously the maestro of it. Like talking with you is just so easy. Hours just fly by. It's so much fun.

• 2:56:53Speaker 00

  Thanks. I'm glad you had fun, man. It flies by for me too. You know, it's just that the key is only talk to people you actually want to talk to. That way you never have to fake it.

• 2:57:02Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 2:57:04Speaker 00

  But yeah, Mighty Mouse is awesome at that. And to me, he's like one of the greatest examples ever of mixed martial arts excellence. Like watching him perform when he was at his best, he was just a master.

• 2:57:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:57:14Speaker 00

  Just a master.

• 2:57:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:57:15Speaker 00

  One of the all times.

• 2:57:16Speaker 01

  Uncanny, that flying armbar?

• 2:57:18Speaker 00

  Oh, my God.

• 2:57:19Speaker 01

  Like to chain that?

• 2:57:20Speaker 00

  Suplex into an armbar in a fight.

• 2:57:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's just, yeah, he does things that that it's it's like you're playing the game.

• 2:57:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, dude.

• 2:57:29Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 2:57:30Speaker 00

  And his speed, there's something about the speed of flyweights too. One time I grabbed him at a UFC just to say hi, just fucking around. I grabbed him from behind and he turned around and he went. He hit me with two knees to the body. Like, didn't hurt me, just touched me. But they were so fast, my brain didn't process it. My brain was like, what? What did you just? How did you do? What the fuck just happened? Because it's one thing to watch it play out, but it's another thing when those knees just come at your body like that and you realize like that's the speed that they're competing at.

• 2:57:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:58:00Speaker 00

  Like when you watch Joshua Van versus Pantoja, the chaos.

• 2:58:03Speaker 01

  Fight, what a fight.

• 2:58:05Speaker 00

  How good is Joshua Van?

• 2:58:06Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. And they're like, and I'm so happy he like silenced everyone about that Pantoja fight.

• 2:58:14Speaker 00

  Well, he kind of did with the Tyra fight. Because the Tyra fight was so good.

• 2:58:19Speaker 01

  Poor Tyra.

• 2:58:19Speaker 00

  But dude, Joshua is another level, man.

• 2:58:22Speaker 01

  He is. And he's just evolving every fight. That's just like Talbot. It's like, I think that's this new generation.

• 2:58:28Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 2:58:29Speaker 01

  Their level, their ability to adapt and grow so fast between fights.

• 2:58:34Speaker 00

  Yep, yep.

• 2:58:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's just, it's.

• 2:58:36Speaker 00

  And as a champion, I think he's even more confident than ever. You know, it's just, oh, my God, it's such an exciting time for the sport, man.

• 2:58:43Speaker 01

  Those younger generation is why I'm developing an app. That's why I brought out a fitness app.

• 2:58:50Speaker 00

  Well, listen, man. Thank you for being here. Good luck with the app. Good luck with everything in your future. It's been a pleasure.

• 2:58:55Speaker 01

  Oh, thank you so much for having me. This is great.

• 2:58:57Speaker 00

  Uh, if anybody wants to get a hold of you on Instagram, what is your handle? What is?

• 2:59:01Speaker 01

  Rob Widdecombe MMA.

• 2:59:03Speaker 00

  Okay, and Twitter, do you use that?

• 2:59:05Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes. It's all the all the same, all the same handle.

• 2:59:08Speaker 00

  Website?

• 2:59:09Speaker 01

  The website is ascendfitness.com.

• 2:59:12Speaker 00

  By Rob dot com.

• 2:59:13Speaker 01

  Fifty percent off first month.

• 2:59:15Speaker 00

  All right. Thanks, brother. Bye, everybody.

• 2:59:31Speaker 00

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