#2359 - Mike Maxwell

Mike Maxwell is an artist whose work explores many themes, including humanity, consciousness, and the unknown. www.mikemaxwellart.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:12Joe Rogan?

  Hey, Mike Maxwell.

• 0:14Speaker 03

  What's happening, Joe Rogan?

• 0:14Joe Rogan?

  My man. Good to see you.

• 0:16Speaker 03

  It's good to be here.

• 0:17Joe Rogan?

  For anybody who doesn't know, Mike Maxwell is an amazing artist and did not just that painting with Quentin Tarantino in front of it, which is pretty fucking cool, but also the JRE logo.

• 0:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, a minute ago.

• 0:29Joe Rogan?

  The infamous logo.

• 0:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's so funny.

• 0:30Joe Rogan?

  That was like, how many years ago was that, like 15 fucking years ago?

• 0:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, it has to be. I think you were like on episode 10, maybe.

• 0:36Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 0:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 0:37Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 0:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, and super fucking random, too. Like, I get the question all the time, like, "How the fuck did you do that?", you know? And for me, like, my whole, like, art experience has just been like, make the work, and whatever the fuck happens afterwards is just all bonus, you know?

• 0:55Joe Rogan?

  Well, if the work is great, that works. You know, it's like...

• 0:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 0:59Joe Rogan?

  You kind of have to be discovered. Someone has to find you. But yeah, ultimately, it's about talent.

• 1:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, and, you know, hard work, too.

• 1:09Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10Joe Rogan?

  Yes, yeah.

• 1:11Speaker 03

  I mean, because that talent really doesn't, like, artists so often are like, people are like, "Ah, I, like, I wish I could draw. Like, you're so lucky, like, God-given talent." I'm like, "Bitch, I had to fucking, I work every day and have been grinding at this for 25, 26 years."

• 1:28Joe Rogan?

  There's no God-given talent with art. There's some, people have an openness or maybe an ability to see things differently than others, but when it comes to the actual technique...

• 1:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:40Joe Rogan?

  And developing that fine hand-eye coordination and the ability to draw exact or paint exactly what you're looking for, that's work. That's work.

• 1:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, and it, nothing came easy. Like, I feel like there's some artists and, like, some creative people who...

• 1:59Speaker 03

  They have some like inert talent that's in there somewhere. Or it's like we have the right brain chemistry to like get started. But like, I'm still improving. Twenty, twenty-five, twenty-six years in, I'm still recognizing improvements.

• 2:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I thought that, that particular one that we just posted a picture of, that was like one of your best ones. That, that is fucking amazing.

• 2:22Speaker 03

  Well, I told you, like, I probably put more time and effort into that piece than anything I'd made previously.

• 2:28Joe Rogan?

  Look at that thing, man, that is so sick. That is so sick. And it's like, that is this show.

• 2:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, right? And what's funny, like, that piece was really like, all the components were just separate drawings that I had been like compiling.

• 2:43Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:43Speaker 03

  And then it like eventually just kind of formed itself. Like, sometimes I just let the work do, do what it needs to do. Sometimes it's almost like I feel disconnected from it.

• 2:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:53Speaker 03

  And I had, like, there gets to a point after like all the like prep work, where it's like the painting starts to paint itself. Like, it tells me what it wants.

• 3:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:04Speaker 03

  It's very strange. Like, there'll be a moment where it's like I could feel something's not right. And then, like, I can't consciously think of, okay, well, I need to do A, B, and C. But it's kind of like, I sit and wait, and something tells me, right?

• 3:19Joe Rogan?

  It's so crazy that you say it that way because so many people, including authors in particular, they, they talk about the exact same kind of process. It's like something just comes to you.

• 3:29Speaker 03

  Yeah. And that's, I've, I've done a little bit of writing, and I've, I've recognized that in writing too, where like, I'm telling a story, and then all of a sudden, it's like the characters come to life.

• 3:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:41Speaker 03

  And they start to dictate what's actually gonna happen.

• 3:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:44Speaker 03

  Like, it writes itself eventually. But you have to do all that beginning work, like the prep work. Like, you have to get the idea going, and then once you're a certain, like, path in. Like it starts to, it starts to communicate with you.

• 3:59Joe Rogan?

  I always wondered why that's, maybe that's why Stephen King wrote his best work when he was coked up and drunk. Cause he was out of his head.

• 4:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:07Joe Rogan?

  He could get away from his own head.

• 4:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:10Joe Rogan?

  I know that sounds ridiculous, especially to sober people. That don't, you know what I mean? Like they don't want to admit that there's, there's, that's, there's a net positive effect of some people with drugs and writing. Hunter S. Thompson is a giant example.

• 4:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:26Joe Rogan?

  He's one of my favorite authors and it's a giant example. The guy was an inveterate drug user.

• 4:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:32Joe Rogan?

  He was a fucking complete maniac. He was always drunk. And he wrote some shit that just to this day cuts to the core of our society.

• 4:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:41Joe Rogan?

  Like he was.

• 4:42Speaker 03

  He's one of my all time heroes. Like I started reading him when I was in high school. I've read all, almost everything, I think. Uh, I even liked the Hey Rube stuff.

• 4:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 4:51Speaker 03

  Like a lot of people are like, uh, like he was in his decline. But I remember when that was coming at like, pretty early internet, right? Like no social media, but those little articles would pop up and I, I still enjoy it. Like I, I love everything that, that he made.

• 5:07Joe Rogan?

  Well, he at the end was gone. He was really gone and McCumber, uh, so David McCumber, who was his editor, who also co-wrote a book with my friend Tony Anagoni, that's one of the great pool books. It's called Playing Off The Rail. It's a really, for anybody who's a fan of pool, the game. It's an amazing book about a guy whose name is Tony Anagoni, who was a world-class player, who went on the road with a journalist and just gambled across the country.

• 5:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:37Joe Rogan?

  And did it, did it like a real pool hustler would in the, the most dangerous, dingiest places. Playing against high level guys for, you know, $10,000 sets and 24 hour joints in New York City. It's an amazing book. Well, McCumber was Hunter's editor too. At one point in time and McCumber got him towards the end. Like there's video of, see if you can find video of Hunter Thompson. And David McCumber having a conversation. Cause Hunter was just-

• 6:09Speaker 03

  He must have been a fucking nightmare.

• 6:10Joe Rogan?

  Nightmare. Never, never got his stuff in on time. He famously would destroy the fax machine. Because he was supposed to fax his pages to Rolling Stone magazine.

• 6:21Speaker 03

  I love that video when he's in the Rolling Stones office. Jan Wenner is like, like, looks like the whole building's gonna fucking burn down. Just panic.

• 6:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, just try to imagine controlling a guy like that. You can't, and he can't control himself, but out of that, sometimes, something that no one else is capable of writing comes through.

• 6:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:42Joe Rogan?

  And it was much less so at the end. It got away from him at the end, which it's going to do that. Cocaine and alcohol, you're not gonna, that's unsustainable.

• 6:50Speaker 03

  At that level for that long?

• 6:52Joe Rogan?

  It's unsustainable. Everybody I know that has done a lot of coke, they, at the end, they're a mess. It's neurological conditions, all sorts of weird shit happens.

• 7:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, you can't fry your brain for that long.

• 7:02Joe Rogan?

  And these guys were frying.

• 7:05Speaker 03

  Well, it's like, it's the deficiency afterwards, right? So you've used up all the available dopamine that you have in your brain. And it's just like, well, fuck it.

• 7:14Joe Rogan?

  I had a friend who was a crack addict, who was also friends with my friend who ran a pool hall, but also was involved in recovery, and was involved in helping people with recovery. He was, so he was-

• 7:29Speaker 03

  After the fact?

• 7:30Joe Rogan?

  Well, he was helping people that were getting sober, and he wasn't trying to help my friend Johnny. My friend Johnny didn't want to help. He was like, fuck your help.

• 7:38Speaker 03

  Right.

• 7:39Joe Rogan?

  I'm smoking crack. And he was explaining to me the whole dopamine thing. The dopamine and serotonin receptors. Just get cooked. And then you're so depressed that you need it just to feel normal.

• 7:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, you're, you're always at a, you're below baseline.

• 7:54Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 7:54Speaker 03

  You know, I kind of feel like I fall into that little category a little bit, to where it's like, I'm just below baseline, normal. And like, a couple, like, like, I don't get super excited for shit, but it'll be like, something, something that I'm looking forward to will kind of just get me to baseline. Like, right around normal. And I, I sometimes wondered, like, I used to- Do a lot of LSD when I was a teenager. And I wondered like. Define a lot. I mean, we had, we had one summer that me and my boys, it was like every two days. Geez. You know, twice a week. How old were you? Sixteen. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But also, you know, at the same time, maybe that has

• 8:37Speaker 03

  had some power in the sort of creative aspect, too. Right. Right? Even if it's just like looking at the world differently, which is just so common with psychedelics. Right. Right? Just kind of gives you some perspective that's so far removed from our normal day to day reality. Right. Right? So it's like, I think for me, it's like, what more am I not seeing? You know, like, like, what am I, what am I missing in my normal reality that maybe exists? But it could be total bullshit. Like, I don't know, it might not have done anything for my creativity, but.

• 9:16Joe Rogan?

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• 10:01Joe Rogan?

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• 10:57Speaker 01

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• 11:17Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by The Mosquito Bowl. Here's a story that's pretty incredible. After Pearl Harbor, four of the best college football players in America walk away from promising NFL careers to enlist in the Marines and fight in World War II. And the craziest part, it's a true story. These guys had their whole lives ahead of them, but traded the glory of the gridiron for the brutal reality of combat, where the stakes were life and death, directed by Peter Berg, the guy behind Friday Night Lights, and starring Nicholas Galitzine, Bill Skarsgård, Ray Nicholson, and Tom Francis. The Mosquito Bowl, now playing in theaters.

• 11:59Joe Rogan?

  You know, it seems to have a profound effect on a lot of people that have experiences and just they'll talk about like this one, like, didn't Steve Jobs talk about it? One LSD experience and just kind of shifted the way he thought about things? Oh, here it is.

• 12:14Speaker 03

  With those tiny shorts on, it's fucking great.

• 12:17Joe Rogan?

  This is the documentary, the crazy. Walk around with a gun.

• 12:23Joe Rogan?

  Can't even understand them.

• 12:34Speaker 04

  What can I do? I was behind the fence. No, I had a. I couldn't call, uh, I, I, I, uh, I mentioned to the cab. We've got, uh, we've got to get seriously busy here.

• 12:46Speaker 04

  You keep it calling me every conceivable, can I make you dirty sock? You dirty stupid bastard. I've had a hole in the fence.

• 12:53Speaker 00

  You flayed me, asshole.

• 12:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, well. Well, we're, uh, we're an hour away from, uh, tradition here.

• 13:03Speaker 04

  Well. Not to mention the first edition. I don't, uh, I guess, uh, what can I do? Well, I think we'll probably get better.

• 13:12Speaker 03

  They have a computer.

• 13:14Joe Rogan?

  They have a computer. I wonder what year this was?

• 13:18Speaker 05

  Uh, eighty, this came out in eighty-eight, so probably like eighty-seven.

• 13:21Joe Rogan?

  When did people first start having computers?

• 13:26Joe Rogan?

  When did you have your first computer, Jamie? You were, you're younger than me.

• 13:29Speaker 05

  Mine was later than that, though. I had like Windows, I think was our first one.

• 13:33Joe Rogan?

  What year? Like ninety-five?

• 13:35Speaker 05

  No, we had whatever Windows was before that.

• 13:37Joe Rogan?

  Three point eight or whatever it was?

• 13:39Speaker 05

  Three point one.

• 13:39Joe Rogan?

  What was, is that what it was?

• 13:40Speaker 05

  When Windows ninety-five came out, that's, it was a big day.

• 13:43Joe Rogan?

  It was a big day?

• 13:44Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 13:44Joe Rogan?

  I remember.

• 13:45Speaker 05

  You could do stuff.

• 13:46Joe Rogan?

  I, my.

• 13:46Speaker 05

  CD-ROMs.

• 13:47Joe Rogan?

  I've, I got an Apple computer from, uh, CompUSA in nineteen ninety-four.

• 13:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think I was right around like ninety-seven. Big ass fucking thing, too.

• 13:58Joe Rogan?

  But my friend Robbie knew what to buy. My friend Robbie, either he worked in computers or his brother worked in computers. So he took me to CompUSA. I had no idea. I'm like, what is this?

• 14:07Speaker 03

  My mom, um, she worked in a computer lab at the community college in San Diego, and she was like one of the first to start using Apple products. Like, everything was PC.

• 14:19Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 14:20Speaker 03

  And she knew, like, something was, like, getting ready to pop off, and she was like, like, she had the first iPhone, like, early, uh, like, those fucking Apples that, you know, it looked like a TV from the eighties.

• 14:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 14:35Speaker 03

  Just weighed six hundred pounds.

• 14:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 14:37Speaker 03

  And actually, like, got into graphic design early, and that's kind of how I started doing some, because I. I made art my whole life, but started doing some design, like learning how to actually use the fucking computer. And now, like, I learned-

• 14:50Joe Rogan?

  What kind of programs were available back then?

• 14:52Speaker 03

  Photoshop and Illustrator were out, but it was like one and two.

• 14:56Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 14:56Speaker 03

  Yeah. And she was in there and taught me how to do it. And then, like, I still, like, do graphic design, but it's like, it's from, like, I still use the techniques from, like, 1999.

• 15:07Joe Rogan?

  Well, it kind of shows you that there's a lot of, like, untapped comedic talent in the tech industry. Because memes were one of the first forms of new comedy-

• 15:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:21Joe Rogan?

  -that hit the internet. And it had to be by someone who knew how to work the old-school photo shops.

• 15:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:28Joe Rogan?

  So you had to have some technical understanding of the programs. You had a view. It was probably people that were using them already. You know, there were graphic artists, and they were like, "Fuck this guy, let's make a funny meme."

• 15:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, 'cause, I mean, before, before that, you had to do everything by hand. It was a lot of, like, cut and paste and, like-

• 15:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 15:46Speaker 03

  And, like, different techniques. It was, everything was by hand.

• 15:50Joe Rogan?

  When did memes, like, really funny memes, first start appearing?

• 15:53Speaker 03

  I had, I feel like it has to be, like, 2000. 99, 2000.

• 15:58Joe Rogan?

  The internet meme. Oh.

• 15:59Speaker 05

  Richard Dawkins, concept, 1972.

• 16:02Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 16:03Speaker 05

  By internet.

• 16:03Joe Rogan?

  That was that book that he had, right? The Selfish Gene? Wasn't it in that?

• 16:08Speaker 05

  That dancing baby was coming up.

• 16:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's, I feel like that's the earliest.

• 16:13Joe Rogan?

  The dancing baby was the first?

• 16:15Speaker 05

  Yeah, from, like, a TV show.

• 16:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. A terrible animated dancing baby. What year was that?

• 16:23Joe Rogan?

  Bro, that's just stuff of nightmares. If you're in the woods, you see a dancing baby that looks like that, the uncanny valley dancing baby. With those fuck, that would be so scary. Imagine if you saw that in the woods?

• 16:34Speaker 03

  You would have to punt it.

• 16:35Joe Rogan?

  Bro, you'd have to run. If you kick it, it grabs a hold of you and bites you like a wolf.

• 16:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, but what if it runs, like, fucking 100 miles an hour?

• 16:41Joe Rogan?

  Well, you're gonna find out. At least you'll find out. Actually, if you run, it's worse, 'cause then you're tired, and it's probably right there watching you. You're just trying to catch your breath.

• 16:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:51Joe Rogan?

  And you see its little face peeking behind the bush. No, no, no. It stays just far enough from you that you think you have to run. If it's really trying to scare you, it doesn't want to jump on you. And once it gets really close for a long time-

• 17:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:04Joe Rogan?

  -for a long time, so it wears everything out. You want to wear it out. Like, that's how you'd do it if you're chasing a person. You don't just run up on them. That just spoils all the fun.

• 17:16Speaker 03

  Right. Isn't that like the old school hunters too? Just like chasing a pack of deer for?

• 17:21Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah, that's why human beings can run so long. But that's a different thing. They're overheating them. It's that's called uh it's called persistence hunting.

• 17:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:29Joe Rogan?

  That's why there's so many amazing marathon runners come from that part of the world. Cause like these guys have a history of literally running animals to their death.

• 17:38Speaker 03

  Right. Fucking. Who had to figure that out too? Who's like, well, I got five miles in me.

• 17:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, let me just.

• 17:45Speaker 03

  Shit, I need ten.

• 17:46Joe Rogan?

  Let me just keep running until this deer stops running. Like, how would you ever think that you a deer, you would eventually catch it?

• 17:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, especially if they're so fucking fast.

• 17:55Joe Rogan?

  They're so fucking fast. Like, how would you think that one day that antelope was gonna get tired? Like, how would you even have that in your head?

• 18:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:03Joe Rogan?

  That it couldn't just take a break? It's gonna be three hundred yards ahead of you like that.

• 18:06Speaker 03

  I love those thoughts.

• 18:07Joe Rogan?

  Catch its breath. They didn't even know that it's the issue is the animals don't have sweat glands. So they overheat.

• 18:14Speaker 03

  Shit.

• 18:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. So we have sweat glands.

• 18:17Speaker 03

  And of course, they weren't biologists, so they also didn't know that either.

• 18:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's why we're so weird. We're such a weird animal. And that our bodies really can kind of adapt to different climates and they self cool and regulate. Like, some animals, if they're outside of their climate range, they're fucked.

• 18:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:33Joe Rogan?

  Like, they're in deep shit.

• 18:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:35Joe Rogan?

  You know, like, uh, Marshall over here. Where are you, buddy? Oh, oh, he's right here. He's right beside me. Um, we have to, you know, if we're gonna exercise in Texas, we have to do it in the morning.

• 18:46Speaker 03

  Right.

• 18:47Joe Rogan?

  Or we have to jump in the pool. Cause, you know, his body's adapted for cold. He's got this crazy wool coat that he wears everywhere he goes.

• 18:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:55Joe Rogan?

  It sucks. But for us, man, we can, we sweat. And they figured out, I guess, a long time ago, that these animals, if you just keep running after them, eventually they just can't do it anymore. And then they lay down. And then you fucking stab them.

• 19:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's so fucking wild.

• 19:12Joe Rogan?

  But it it made insane runners.

• 19:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:16Joe Rogan?

  You're running, the only way you're gonna feed your children is if you run after that deer, bro. You're gonna become a fucking runner.

• 19:22Speaker 03

  And now the evolutionary process is like you go to the Olympics.

• 19:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 19:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and they have you like this on the cover of Wheaties.

• 19:30Speaker 03

  It is, it really is interesting, cuz like that's before I started doing jujitsu. Like, that was what I was doing. I was running.

• 19:36Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 19:37Speaker 03

  Like, and, but it just got fucking boring.

• 19:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 19:40Speaker 03

  It got boring. And that, that's when I was like, okay, I gotta find something else, cuz...

• 19:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's what most people, the problem they have with the gym. And jujitsu is the opposite of boring. Jujitsu is, it's one of the most rewarding things in life. Because it's super hard to do. It's really good for your head. Like, jujitsu people in general, like, you get dickheads in all walks of life.

• 20:01Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 20:02Joe Rogan?

  And female dickheads do. Uh, but, for lack of a better word. But you, you get the nicest people. Like, for the most part. You get people of character.

• 20:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:12Joe Rogan?

  Because you have to have character to stick it out. To be doing juju- if you're, you've been doing jujitsu eight years, I can, 99% sure I can hang out with you.

• 20:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 20:22Joe Rogan?

  You're a dude who's got his shit together.

• 20:23Speaker 03

  It's almost like we're like distant family members or something.

• 20:26Joe Rogan?

  100%.

• 20:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:27Joe Rogan?

  100%. It's like you recognize you've been through this thing. You know, I started doing jujitsu in 96. So 96, I was at Carlson Gracie's place. How old were you? I was... 29? 29?

• 20:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, see, I start, I started at 30.

• 20:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 20:44Speaker 03

  Like, around the same time.

• 20:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, around the same time. And, and I started right after, it was kinda like a year or two after I first saw the UFC. You know, it was right around that time.

• 20:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:54Joe Rogan?

  And so I started at Carlson Gracie's place in, um, in LA, that was right down the street from the Comedy Store. It's real close to the Comedy Store. And, um, that was when Vitor Belfort was, he had just fought John Hess in Hawaii.

• 21:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:08Joe Rogan?

  And he was about to enter the UFC.

• 21:10Speaker 03

  And that, that was that first crew in California from Brazil, too.

• 21:14Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 21:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Marilla Bustamante, you know, there was a, a, a whole ton of these guys that came from Brazil.

• 21:22Speaker 03

  I think Maderos was there, too.

• 21:24Joe Rogan?

  Mario Sperry was there.

• 21:25Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 21:26Joe Rogan?

  I got to train with Mario Sperry, dude.

• 21:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:28Joe Rogan?

  When I was a white belt.

• 21:29Speaker 03

  That's wild.

• 21:29Joe Rogan?

  And he didn't have no idea who the fuck I was, cuz I wasn't anybody. I wasn't famous at all.

• 21:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:33Joe Rogan?

  And, uh, he was the fucking nicest guy in the world, man.

• 21:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:37Joe Rogan?

  You know, he, he, he explained, Mario Sperry explained to us how he got his triangle really good. He would make his girlfriend sit in his guard, and he would just triangle, and she would complain, like, stop, stop. Just let me do this.

• 21:48Speaker 03

  Poor Jigget's girlfriend.

• 21:50Joe Rogan?

  Let me use your body to practice triangles.

• 21:53Speaker 03

  I mean, cuz that's what it takes. It's kinda hard to do it by yourself.

• 21:56Joe Rogan?

  I have a dummy, but I don't use it. I have one of them. I used to have a Gracie dummy back home in LA.

• 22:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, every gym has one that just sits in the corner and nobody fucks with it.

• 22:04Joe Rogan?

  You really wanna do it with people?

• 22:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:06Joe Rogan?

  It's just, you know, the difference between the rolling and the drilling. It's like the people that get really good, they they put the shitty work in.

• 22:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:15Joe Rogan?

  You know, the long drilling sessions. That boring ass shit.

• 22:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, you have to. I have, cuz I teach now and like.

• 22:23Joe Rogan?

  What belt do you know?

• 22:24Speaker 03

  I'm a black belt.

• 22:24Joe Rogan?

  Oh, snap, son. When I met you, what were you?

• 22:29Speaker 03

  Uh, I was probably a purple belt.

• 22:31Joe Rogan?

  How did we meet?

• 22:33Speaker 03

  Shit.

• 22:34Joe Rogan?

  I don't even remember how we met cuz it was so long ago.

• 22:36Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, like I get, I get the question all the time.

• 22:40Joe Rogan?

  I couldn't even answer that question.

• 22:41Speaker 03

  That's funny. Um, well, I, so my sister worked at the Comedy Store in La Jolla as a waitress. She's, she's a nurse now. Um, and you were doing a show at somewhere downtown at like the Balboa Theater?

• 22:57Joe Rogan?

  Probably.

• 22:57Speaker 03

  Maybe?

• 22:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 22:58Speaker 03

  And it was sold out and I just hit her up and was like, hey, do you think you can give me tickets? Uh, cuz she knew everybody from the store in La Jolla and Ari ended up getting a pair of tickets for me. And so I went to the show, whatever.

• 23:13Joe Rogan?

  Did you know Ari already?

• 23:14Speaker 03

  My sister was friends with Ari.

• 23:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay.

• 23:17Speaker 03

  Um, yeah, I didn't know anybody yet and uh, maybe two weeks later, she hits me up and is like, hey, can you do a poster? For our marquee for, it was Ari, um, Tony Hinchcliffe. And it was supposed to be Duncan Trussell, but maybe it was Duncan, but regardless. Um, and from what I remember, you must have seen that poster at some point.

• 23:47Joe Rogan?

  That makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense.

• 23:49Speaker 03

  And then we did the, we did the Atlanta 420 show.

• 23:53Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah.

• 23:55Speaker 03

  So that was probably, I feel like I met you before, because I popped in on one of those, those Ice House Chronicles from back in the day.

• 24:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh, those were fun. Look at that one, man. What a great one.

• 24:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was the 420 show. So that was 2012.

• 24:09Joe Rogan?

  Goddamn, time flies, son.

• 24:11Speaker 03

  And so that ended up becoming the graphic for the logo. We had the microphone.

• 24:16Joe Rogan?

  It's perfect.

• 24:17Speaker 03

  Duncan with the little hit of acid on his tongue.

• 24:20Joe Rogan?

  It's the perfect logo. I mean, you fucking nailed it. Now it's everywhere. That's gotta be weird.

• 24:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's fucking strange.

• 24:27Joe Rogan?

  It's on this mug.

• 24:29Speaker 03

  Almost like disconnected from it. Yeah, like, of course, it's grown, it's like it's its own thing, but every time I see it, like, I know, like, I drew that by hand. Like, I have the ink drawings still.

• 24:41Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 24:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's pretty fucking wild. I, you know, I put stuff out into the world all the time. I have thousands of paintings, thousands of different fucking places, but, I mean, more people see this image than guaranteed all the other ones.

• 24:58Joe Rogan?

  Well, more people see that image than anything else I've ever done.

• 25:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:01Joe Rogan?

  That image is everywhere.

• 25:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's pretty wild. What a fucking weird trip, right? I mean, you, I went to the show on Tuesday, and you were doing the, like, Q and A at the end, and somebody had asked you about, like, what your goals are?

• 25:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 25:15Speaker 03

  And you were like, "I, I don't have any." And I'm kind of in that same routine, where, like, what I was saying, like, "I do the work, zero expectations. Like, what happens will happen, and I'm just along for the ride."

• 25:29Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's, I think, as long as you put the actual energy into the work, I think, at least for me and you, that's the way to do it. I don't have, like, people, there's a lot of people out there with vision boards. I was talking to this dude the other day. He's got this vision board, he's got all these goals he wants for his company, and goals all he wants for his life, and this and that. I'm like, "I get it, that probably works too. That probably works too." But for me, I just only, I feel like I only want to think about the process. I want to put all my energy into thinking about the process.

• 26:01Speaker 03

  Because that's the rewarding part for a creator, right? Like, me in the studio by myself, painting, I, I get that clear mind.

• 26:08Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 26:09Speaker 03

  Where it's like, I, I feel like I fucking meditate. Six hours a day. You know.

• 26:15Joe Rogan?

  Just from work.

• 26:15Speaker 03

  Every day, just from work. Because at some point in the painting process, like, the paintbrush turns into a mantra almost to where, like, everything in my mind, just like in jujitsu, like, everything shuts off because we're in a hyper-focused, like, mode of accomplishing a task.

• 26:33Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 26:34Speaker 03

  And that's, for me, painting, all the reward is that.

• 26:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 26:38Speaker 03

  It's those moments, even when I fucking hate it, because there's plenty of times when I'm like, this motherfucking painting.

• 26:45Speaker 03

  Like, I can't get it, like, I know where I want it to go, but it's like, well, first you're gonna have to take thirty-five fucking steps before you can get there.

• 26:53Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 26:54Speaker 03

  And my, you know, like, I know that, like, the finishing of painting is a little bit like a drug. I don't know if you ever experienced this, maybe like after getting offstage or something, but it's like, there's a little, like, dopamine reward.

• 27:07Joe Rogan?

  When it's done.

• 27:07Speaker 03

  When it's complete and done.

• 27:09Joe Rogan?

  You're like, ah, look at that.

• 27:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like catching your breath.

• 27:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 27:12Speaker 03

  And it's even like you don't know it.

• 27:14Joe Rogan?

  Sketches. I used to feel like that with drawings.

• 27:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:16Joe Rogan?

  But on a smaller scale, obviously. I think it's the same thing with martial arts. Because, you know, people always talk about martial arts as being a moving meditation.

• 27:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:25Joe Rogan?

  You know, I think, I think, and if you thought about martial arts, like, if you, if you were a white belt and you thought about all the time that it's gonna take before you become a black belt, you're like, oh, my god.

• 27:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:36Joe Rogan?

  I can't do this. But if you just think about the process, the process will get you there.

• 27:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:42Joe Rogan?

  You just have to just only be thinking about this idea, this process of improvement, of dialing it in. There's, and people oftentimes refer to martial arts as a moving meditation. Because to do it right, you're kind of out of your own way.

• 27:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:57Joe Rogan?

  Did you ever do any, did you do much striking?

• 27:59Speaker 03

  Uh, I did a year of Muay Thai. I got punched in the face a lot. I actually, I found my brain not functioning quite the same way.

• 28:08Joe Rogan?

  Oh, from getting hit?

• 28:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I even found myself, like, getting frustrated, which was stupid, like.

• 28:16Speaker 03

  To be fair. Yeah. Well, like in, in the process of, of Muay Thai. Oh, okay. Like, I had a coach, and this was forever ago, who was kind of a prick. And just, he had eight morning students who knew fucking dick. And we were terrible, you know? Oh, and he wanted to be coaching pros, right? That's what it seemed like, like very, very distant and like, like phoning it in. Ugh. And I, I recognized myself kind of getting frustrated with it, but when I was in jujitsu class, if somebody caught me in something, I found myself laughing. Interesting. To where I was like, wow, that, like, I never got frustrated, I never got like, down on myself. Because I'm, I mean, my whole first year, I don't think I tapped a single person my first year.

• 29:02Speaker 03

  And I, I like, I was in a tough gym, you know, it was an Nogara gym. And so, like, the whole first year of them being open, it was just like the MMA guys were in there. It was like pros training for, you know, a year or six months. And then they opened it up to the public, which is when I got in. Um, and it was just, it was just ass whoopings every day. I, I remember my first class like it was yesterday. Like, I got, when we got to sparring, it was like, I got, like, I just looked at another white belt. It was like, okay, let's try. And neither of us knew what the fuck we were doing. And the coach was like, hey, and like grabbed this purple belt, who's now, he owns, um, Delmar Jujitsu, uh, in San Diego.

• 29:47Speaker 03

  He, uh, he came over, he has a purple belt, just this fucking like vanilla gorilla. And hip tossed me. Oh, no. And I was like, what the fuck was that? Like, I had no idea what had happened. I was on my back, you know, trying to catch my breath, like, holy shit, what was that? And at that moment, like, I knew I, like, I thought I was tough. Like, I thought I had a little bit of toughness in me, and I was like, just a complete humbling experience, but also, like, encouraging.

• 30:14Speaker 03

  Like, I feel like it was that singular hip toss, like, led me to be a black belt.

• 30:19Joe Rogan?

  Interesting. So, because it was so overwhelming, you were like, I need to learn that.

• 30:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 30:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 30:26Speaker 03

  And I was at kind of like a weird phase, so that was probably like around, around 2008? When shit seemed to be, it was like a little moment of like, everything's going to shit? And like, I had this weird feeling of like-

• 30:37Joe Rogan?

  Oh, this is like the financial crisis?

• 30:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:39Joe Rogan?

  This was when the banks collapsed.

• 30:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, and everybody's money was weird, and it just-

• 30:42Joe Rogan?

  The mortgage collapse thing, yeah.

• 30:44Speaker 03

  And I felt like, if shit hits the fan, like, maybe I should know how to do something. Which is such a weird, yeah, yeah.

• 30:52Joe Rogan?

  That's a crazy thought.

• 30:53Speaker 03

  It's, it's fairly abstract, like, to me, it wasn't like, I was like, super concerned, or like, really serious about it, but I had the thought of like, if I need to defend myself, or if I need, and that's why I was running too, is like, if I need to fucking chase down a deer, in, you know, until it overheats.

• 31:10Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 31:11Speaker 03

  And it, it ended up just being a little bit of a motivation, and then I just found the joy in it. I always said if I ever opened a jujitsu gym, I would call it fun jujitsu. Nobody steal that. Just because, I mean, I was talking to, um, Zach, your security guard, uh, at the comedy club, and, uh, like, for me, I don't get into street fights. I haven't been in a street fight since I was a teenager.

• 31:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, me too.

• 31:37Speaker 03

  You know? Like, I've broken up fights more often than I've got into them, and-

• 31:42Joe Rogan?

  You know, one thing I do find that's really disconcerting, when fights break out, I don't get nervous.

• 31:48Speaker 03

  That's, how beautiful is that? I've, I've had that, because I remember when fights would break out, your, your anxiety shoots up, your heart rate.

• 31:54Joe Rogan?

  I get weird if like, someone close to me is with me, and I'm worried about their danger.

• 31:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 32:00Joe Rogan?

  But the fact that two people are fighting, I'm so used to it, it's weird.

• 32:04Speaker 03

  I stopped a bar fight a couple of years ago, where a group of guys attacked this dude. One of them got a hold of him, and he, he sunk in a guillotine, the, the guy got taken down, right away, a deep guillotine. Like, all the way up over the shoulder, you know, like-

• 32:19Joe Rogan?

  And was not letting him tap?

• 32:20Speaker 03

  Was-

• 32:21Joe Rogan?

  Not letting him out?

• 32:21Speaker 03

  No, no, no, no. And I, I saw it all sort of, kind of unfolding, and I ran up there, and I just whispered in his ear, "If you do jujitsu, you should probably let go right now." That calm. He like looked at me, let go, dude was out cold. I actually grabbed the, the guy who was out cold and picked his feet.

• 32:39Joe Rogan?

  That's a great way to handle it, the way you talk to him.

• 32:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, and he immediately looked at me like, okay, yeah, I hear what you're saying.

• 32:46Joe Rogan?

  Also like, this could be the difference between nothing happens to you, you're just defending yourself and you're going to jail for a long time, because this guy's dead.

• 32:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, especially if the guy's out, you're still holding on to it.

• 32:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:58Joe Rogan?

  Ooh.

• 32:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, and it was quick, it was tight. He, he might not have known he was out, but I mean.

• 33:03Joe Rogan?

  He was probably so jumped up with adrenaline.

• 33:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, like he had his girlfriend with him and.

• 33:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, dude, dude, street fights are stupid.

• 33:09Speaker 03

  So dumb.

• 33:10Joe Rogan?

  And if I see them, I just get the fuck away. But what just weird that I'm, I, I've seen so many people beat people up.

• 33:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:17Joe Rogan?

  I have seen, like firsthand, there's probably a tiny percentage of people on earth that have seen more fistfights in person than me.

• 33:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, I can't ima- especially at that close range.

• 33:30Joe Rogan?

  At close range with world-class fighters.

• 33:32Speaker 03

  Cause it's, when you're in at a UFC event, like those fights feel so much more intense and so much more like visceral when you're there.

• 33:40Joe Rogan?

  Dude, you gotta come with me, you gotta come with me to the apex. The apex is the place to see fights.

• 33:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:47Joe Rogan?

  The Apex Center is the UFC's private little auditorium. It's tiny. It only seats like a hundred people.

• 33:54Speaker 03

  Is that where they were doing the fights during COVID?

• 33:56Joe Rogan?

  Yes. Dude, I saw Francis Nganu versus Stipe Miocic in a small cage with no audience.

• 34:04Speaker 03

  That's wild.

• 34:05Joe Rogan?

  It was wild.

• 34:06Speaker 03

  Those sounds are sounds you don't hear.

• 34:08Joe Rogan?

  Bro, it was wild.

• 34:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:11Joe Rogan?

  It was so different, because Francis's punches and kicks without all the cheering.

• 34:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, to hear that sound.

• 34:19Joe Rogan?

  It's a different thing, man, because you're, you're experiencing what that fighter is experiencing. Not, you're not getting the pain, but the thud, the force, that you feel it different.

• 34:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:31Joe Rogan?

  You feel, like through the arena, you feel, that small little room, you feel it. And I remember.

• 34:36Speaker 03

  Concussion in the air.

• 34:38Joe Rogan?

  When he collapsed, when he hit him with the left hook and dropped him and then punched him when he was down, I was like, oh my god. It was so different than seeing it in an arena. It was so intimate.

• 34:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:49Joe Rogan?

  It's like, I always say that it's like the difference between going to see an acoustic concert and going to see a concert in a gigantic arena.

• 34:55Speaker 03

  Right.

• 34:56Joe Rogan?

  You know, you go see someone in a club doing an acoustic set, like Gary Clark Jr. did an acoustic set. It's different. Like, wow, this is intimate. This is cool.

• 35:03Speaker 03

  That's why I always like the prelim fights for the few fights that I've gone to.

• 35:07Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 35:07Speaker 03

  And it's interesting. I noticed myself getting nervous for the fighter, especially that first fight. Like, first prelim.

• 35:14Joe Rogan?

  Cause there's only like 10 people in the room.

• 35:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:16Joe Rogan?

  It's weird.

• 35:18Speaker 03

  Yeah. That walkout moment is so peculiar.

• 35:22Joe Rogan?

  Yes. It's very peculiar.

• 35:24Speaker 03

  And I don't know if everybody else feels it, but it's like, I can almost feel their anxiety.

• 35:28Joe Rogan?

  Oh, 100%.

• 35:29Speaker 03

  Like, as they're walking out.

• 35:30Joe Rogan?

  And some guys, you don't feel that at all. You just feel this confidence, this crazy confidence. That's fascinating, too. The guys can get so good and work themselves into a headspace where they, they, like Ilya Toporia, he walks in there like he's already won. He celebrates the night before. He has a celebration dinner with all his friends and family the night before the fight. He walks out there like he has not a doubt in the world. No doubt.

• 35:55Speaker 03

  I wonder how much of that comes from everything that he's done so far? Like, just a supreme confidence?

• 36:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's definitely from that, but I also think, I think he's touched by the universe. I think there's, there's certain people that have a talent. Obviously, hard work. Obviously, discipline. Obviously, intelligence. Obviously, great trainers. All those things are, you can't get past the technique that he has, but there's an understanding of what to do and how to do it and when to do it. And an ability that's above and beyond.

• 36:29Speaker 03

  And I see this all the time where it's like two people who seem like they would be equal in skills or even just in knowledge, right? But one of them can completely outshine the other.

• 36:42Joe Rogan?

  Well, you learn early on in martial arts that it's, it's all hard work, but there's certain dudes that have physical attributes that are just freakish.

• 36:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:53Joe Rogan?

  They're freakish. Like, the first thing that I, my first introduction to real, like, high-level martial arts was this guy named John Lee. And John Lee was the national light heavyweight champion in Taekwondo at the time. And he was training for the World Cup. And I was leaving with my friend Jimmy, we were coming home from a baseball game. We were coming home from Fenway Park and we just passed by this Taekwondo school. And um, I was like, well, let's go up, it was, we're waiting for the tea, the tea takes forever, it's a train, it's always packed. Everybody's leaving the baseball game at the same time, it's gonna be a mob scene. Let it die down for a little bit, let's go check out this Taekwondo class. And as we're walking up the stairs, I hear ka-chunk, ka-chunk, like this crazy noise, like a thump and then a rattle of chains.

• 37:38Joe Rogan?

  That's what I was hearing. And it was this dude practicing a spinning back kick on the back in his prime. Big, long dude who had fucking ferocious power, he was just bending this bag in half.

• 37:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:53Joe Rogan?

  And I was fourteen and I was like, holy shit, I think I was fifteen. It was like, it was the summer of my fifteenth birthday. But I, I changed my life. I was like, I need to learn how to do that, like that's crazy.

• 38:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:07Joe Rogan?

  But then, after a while, I realized like, not everybody can do that. Like, there's guys that are like, high level guys, they can't do it, that guy could do. That guy had some weird gift, he had a weird power gift.

• 38:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, even sometimes just biology, like how your body is shaped.

• 38:21Joe Rogan?

  It's a hundred percent biology. When it comes to power. There's, like, if you have tiny hands and, and slope shoulders and girl hips, good luck. You're not gonna, you're, you're, there's no way you're gonna generate John Lee type power.

• 38:34Speaker 03

  Yeah. And that's kinda like, I can't punch to save my life, but I got these long skinny ass arms, like, I'll darts the fuck out of you.

• 38:41Joe Rogan?

  Oh, they're perfect for jiu-jitsu.

• 38:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:42Joe Rogan?

  Long arms and thin arms are perfect for jiu-jitsu, cuz it's all leverage, man. I think one of the best things, uh, the most inspirational things that can happen to you if you can handle it in jiu-jitsu is getting mauled by a smaller person.

• 38:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:56Joe Rogan?

  A s- a person like, quite a bit, thirty pounds lighter than you and just runs through you and you're like, wow.

• 39:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:03Joe Rogan?

  Like, okay, it's not about strength at all, it's about skill, knowledge, technique.

• 39:07Speaker 03

  Timing.

• 39:07Joe Rogan?

  Timing.

• 39:08Speaker 03

  Timing is fucking everything.

• 39:09Joe Rogan?

  Timing's a lot, but you have to know what to do with the timing.

• 39:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, and you gotta be on time.

• 39:14Joe Rogan?

  Technique, but you have to have technique, your technique has to be sure, cuz there's some guys like- Some guys, they'll wrap something up and it's like nine out of 10. Like you're gonna squeeze it, maybe get the tap. But there's other guys, they lock something and you're like, oh, there's no way out of this.

• 39:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, this is death.

• 39:28Joe Rogan?

  This is death.

• 39:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, this is 10 out of 10.

• 39:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like an Eddie Bravo triangle. You get locked to Eddie Bravo's triangle, like, I'm not getting out of this. This is tap time.

• 39:37Speaker 03

  That's, I've been wondering, so I, I play lockdown a lot and maybe getting too technical is probably fucking boring.

• 39:42Joe Rogan?

  That's okay.

• 39:43Speaker 03

  I have an extra muscle in my calf.

• 39:46Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 39:47Speaker 03

  It, well, it's this, I have the same muscle in my left calf, but my right one is twice the size. Just a little strand from making that little hook on the shin.

• 39:57Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you're just from jiu-jitsu?

• 39:59Speaker 03

  From playing lockdown.

• 39:59Joe Rogan?

  Wow, you know, you could exercise that. You know, there's a, a thing called a Tib bar. Do you know what that is?

• 40:06Speaker 03

  Uh-uh.

• 40:06Joe Rogan?

  This would be really good for jiu-jitsu, for, especially for people who really love butterfly guard. And it's just good for overall knee stability. I, I learned about it through the knees over toes guy on Instagram. Have you ever done any of his stuff?

• 40:18Speaker 03

  No, but I, I need to start looking into it.

• 40:21Joe Rogan?

  Look into it.

• 40:21Speaker 03

  Yesterday.

• 40:22Joe Rogan?

  Really good for knee health and strengthening the knees.

• 40:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:26Joe Rogan?

  A lot of amazing exercises. But one of the things that he, um, has that he recommends is a Tib bar. And so what it is, is it's like a thing that attaches to your shoe. And you lift weights by lifting your foot upward, by lifting your toes towards your knee.

• 40:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:42Joe Rogan?

  Which is an exercise you very rarely get. But it's really good.

• 40:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:46Joe Rogan?

  It's really good. And for butterfly guard, that would be it, man. Cause you could get that motherfucker strong as shit with not just doing butterfly guard, but lifting. Lifting for that, you would, for sure. I always thought like leg extensions too, that would help in a big way, right?

• 41:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:01Joe Rogan?

  You know, for the same kind of muscles, the forcing, like extending the leg.

• 41:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, cause that's, it feels awkward at first to try to elevate from that position.

• 41:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 41:09Speaker 03

  Right, like especially if your knees are fucked. I'm, I'm kind of, I'm 16 years in now. And I'm like, I'm avoiding the, the heavyweight rolls.

• 41:19Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 41:20Speaker 03

  The super tough, like I just have to like

• 41:22Joe Rogan?

  Protect yourself.

• 41:23Speaker 03

  Protect myself. And still like, I never want to stop either. So like, I want to be able to get in there and, and fuck around as much as possible, but.

• 41:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you gotta pick who you roll with, for sure. That's important, especially as you get older. Are you doing TRT or anything like that?

• 41:36Speaker 03

  No, I wish.

• 41:37Joe Rogan?

  Why don't you do it? Oh, you son of a bitch. What does that mean? What does that mean? What does that mean, Mike Backspel? What does that mean?

• 41:47Speaker 03

  I, I, I just haven't had a chance, I suppose.

• 41:50Joe Rogan?

  While, while you're in town, I'm gonna hook you up with Wayswell. How many more days are you here?

• 41:55Speaker 03

  I leave tonight.

• 41:56Joe Rogan?

  Oh, shit.

• 41:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:58Joe Rogan?

  What time tonight?

• 41:59Speaker 03

  Nine.

• 41:59Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, we could do that. We can make it happen. We'll make it happen. I'll make a call as soon as we get out of here and I'll have you go over there. Uh, right, right before you take off.

• 42:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, cuz shit is gone, gone pretty south.

• 42:09Joe Rogan?

  You should get, at the very least, if you don't do anything, you should get blood work. Get blood work, find out where your hormone levels are at.

• 42:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:16Joe Rogan?

  How was your diet?

• 42:18Speaker 03

  Um, it's not bad. Like, I, I eat pretty good. I actually, uh, cut out sugar this year.

• 42:24Joe Rogan?

  Like, big impact?

• 42:25Speaker 03

  Humongous.

• 42:26Joe Rogan?

  Isn't it crazy?

• 42:27Speaker 03

  Humongous.

• 42:27Joe Rogan?

  You're poisoning yourself.

• 42:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's just like, like what I was saying, like, being that, like, slightly lower than baseline, like, sugar gives you that little dopamine, like, fix. That is like, ah, okay, I feel good now. And so, like, I had a little soda habit, which, I mean, there could be fucking worse things, but...

• 42:46Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot worse things.

• 42:46Speaker 03

  But maybe not, though, you know? Like, sugar is pretty fucking bad for you.

• 42:50Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's also so addictive.

• 42:52Speaker 03

  I lost fifteen pounds, like...

• 42:53Joe Rogan?

  Like that?

• 42:54Speaker 03

  Like that, yeah.

• 42:54Joe Rogan?

  Isn't it crazy?

• 42:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's so stupid.

• 42:56Joe Rogan?

  It's so crazy how many people are just down in that stuff all day long.

• 43:00Speaker 03

  All day long.

• 43:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 43:02Speaker 03

  And ju- just eating you from the inside.

• 43:04Joe Rogan?

  Well, you can see it in their body. You can see it in their body. People, oh, I'm sorry, buddy.

• 43:10Joe Rogan?

  I put my foot on Marshall. I forgot he was there.

• 43:12Speaker 03

  I mean, you see it with kids, I mean...

• 43:14Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's terrible for kids. It's so bad. It's so bad for everything. You know, but in moderation, it's okay, but the problem is, people, human beings are really bad with moderation of things that are literally designed to be addictive.

• 43:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 43:29Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's so hard.

• 43:30Speaker 03

  And I'm a creature of habit to where it's like, I build a routine, and then I stick to that fucking routine.

• 43:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 43:34Speaker 03

  And if that includes, you know...

• 43:36Joe Rogan?

  Sugary drinks.

• 43:37Speaker 03

  Sugary drinks and a fucking ice cream at night, whatever, like, it's gonna be there.

• 43:41Joe Rogan?

  I know, and especially if you're putting in the work. If you're working hard and, and you're working out, you're like, I deserve it. I deserve to poison myself.

• 43:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, be like, it's a balance.

• 43:51Joe Rogan?

  There's times, like, I'll come home from the comedy club and it's late and everyone's asleep, and I'm like, fuck it, I'm eating cereal. You know, I just...

• 44:00Speaker 03

  I mean, you're an adult, you get to choose.

• 44:01Joe Rogan?

  Every now and then, and I always feel terrible after I do it. I'm like, why did you do that?

• 44:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, all those ideas that sound so great and you just build up a beautiful idea and then you get done and you're like, what the fuck?

• 44:12Joe Rogan?

  The only time I feel good is if I come home and I'll cook a steak. I do, I do like that. Like, I'm gonna actual take a whole hour to make myself a meal, even though it's 11:30 at night and I'm tired. I'm gonna take a whole hour and make myself a meal and have the discipline to not eat any garbage before that. Because when you're tired, you make the worst dietary decisions.

• 44:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:34Joe Rogan?

  There's a part of you when you're tired, I forget what it's called, I forget what the, there's actually like a thing that happens where you are impulsively going to go towards things that are bad for you.

• 44:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:47Joe Rogan?

  You're impulsively gonna go towards potato chips and ice cream and candy and bullshit because you're fatigued.

• 44:53Speaker 03

  And there's convenience, right? Like-

• 44:55Joe Rogan?

  It's not just that. If there was a fucking home-cooked meal, like mashed potatoes, green beans, a beautiful like half chicken that was cooked on a grill, or ice cream. You might take the ice cream if no one was around.

• 45:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 45:13Joe Rogan?

  You know, you might, you might grab a Kit Kat bar. You know, for sure, if there was a bowl of chips, just an inviting bowl of like Ruffles.

• 45:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:23Joe Rogan?

  Sitting there, like, I'm gonna grab a couple of Ruffles.

• 45:26Speaker 03

  And that's that weird dopamine thing. Our brain rewards us somehow, and then it fucks with us later.

• 45:30Joe Rogan?

  You know what the thing is? The reward is not worth it. It's not a good reward.

• 45:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:34Joe Rogan?

  Like, it's not like an orgasm. It's not like the completion of a project. It's not like the accomplishment of some great goal. The, the, the amount of whatever rush in your brain that you get from eating a shitty potato chip, it's not that much.

• 45:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:49Joe Rogan?

  For what it does to you- But if I eat a bag of Ruffles, I feel like shit for five hours.

• 45:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure. I started, uh, it came from a, a time place where I was really poor and I tried to figure out like, what's the least amount of food I could eat in a day and still survive, right?

• 46:06Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy.

• 46:08Speaker 03

  And I, what I started to do was like, do little fastings during the day. So like, I'd wake up, get a coffee and not eat until like five. But then I started realizing that I felt good doing that, you know, like, like my body started feeling better and my, now I, I pretty much do it regularly now, even though like, I have money to get food, I would just, just wait, just wait. And I found myself actually getting, uh, pleasure from the pain of starvation. Like I started to, I started to like the feeling of being hungry.

• 46:42Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 46:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, at a, at a certain point, um.

• 46:46Joe Rogan?

  But how long are we talking about? This is like a 24 hours in or how many hours in?

• 46:50Speaker 03

  No, I, it's like, so I would, I would basically eat one meal at like 5:30.

• 46:55Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 46:56Speaker 03

  So no food all day, except the, you know, I'd have some coffee with a little bit of half and half in it, so some fat and, and drinking water, of course, or maybe like, eat like a fucking banana or something. And I, like, my body just felt great. To where like, before I, you know, I was probably eating something shitty in the morning, feeling shitty.

• 47:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 47:16Speaker 03

  Until noon, eat some other fucking shitty thing, you know, as a young person, you just do whatever the fuck you want.

• 47:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, your body will get adapted. I mean, that's why that whole intermittent fasting thing is interesting, right? Cause you're, you're making your body digest food all day long. Like if you're eating all day long, your body, your digestion system never gets break.

• 47:37Speaker 03

  Well, I started thinking like, even like, you know, back to chasing the fucking deer, like, our bodies used to have to go hunt.

• 47:44Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 47:44Speaker 03

  To, to get something to eat. So this idea of like, waiting, you know, eight hours, six hours before eating anything from waking up? Like, it all, it started to feel natural for me.

• 47:57Joe Rogan?

  Well, it is natural as long as you're eating natural food.

• 48:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:00Joe Rogan?

  That's the thing.

• 48:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:01Joe Rogan?

  So if you're eating processed foods and a lot of bread and a lot of pasta and a lot of stuff that human beings have made, especially like our American bread. Your your body's accustomed to a lot of sugar. Your body's accustomed to those complex carbohydrates just pouring into your system all day long. And you're using those as a fuel source. If you're subsisting off of fat and protein and meat and like avocados and you're eating healthy food. Your body is working off a lot of ketones. Your body is it's making its own glucose through gluconeogenesis from the meat. And it's also running off of ketones from the fat. It's a way more efficient way of doing it. And when you do that, you don't get nearly as hungry.

• 48:46Joe Rogan?

  It's you don't have that feeling, that awful feeling. When I was eating a lot of carbs and if I would go like four or five hours without eating, I would start getting fucking famished.

• 48:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:57Joe Rogan?

  You don't get famished when you eat only meat. It it stops. You get hungry, but it's totally manageable.

• 49:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:06Joe Rogan?

  Just that alone, I love. That the the the the not requiring food like I can go. Sometimes I'll I won't eat breakfast. Sometimes I'll work out. I won't eat breakfast. I'll come here, I'll be here all day and the first meal I have is dinner.

• 49:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:23Joe Rogan?

  And I'm fine.

• 49:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:24Joe Rogan?

  I'm literally fine, like it's not bothering me. And it's only because my body's adapted to not eat processed shit.

• 49:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, cuz it's different if you feel like you're gonna throw up or pass out because you haven't fucking eaten in.

• 49:36Joe Rogan?

  That's people that eat a lot of fucking glucose.

• 49:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:38Joe Rogan?

  People that are eating a lot of carbohydrates, a lot of bullshit.

• 49:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:42Joe Rogan?

  Your your body needs fuel. You get low blood sugar and you start feeling like shit.

• 49:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:47Joe Rogan?

  And like you gotta get something in you.

• 49:49Speaker 03

  Well, I noticed as soon as I started doing that, like the stored fat like in my like little love handles or whatever like. Immediately just it was like the body's like, okay, I gotta use this shit now.

• 49:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 49:59Speaker 03

  And and burn it up. Just complete body change. And like and mentally I felt so much better.

• 50:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, people that fast and I've never fasted for more than 24 hours. But people that fast for like three days, they all talk about how great they feel at the end. You feel euphoric and. Incredible and we give us so much energy. I'm like, that sounds nuts. It sounds like you should be fucking dying. Yeah, cuz I mean, I do get miserable sometimes of like, Yeah. Like, I could just eat a fucking steak. I hold it off. I hold off the idea of fasting cuz like, I make all these excuses for myself like, oh, I've gotta do my show. I gotta, it's important. I can't be out of it. Yeah, and that's for me. I don't have any like stringent routine of like, I'm not allowed to fucking eat something. It's just the routine that I've got into now to where it's like, I just sit down and work. But that kind of probably helps a little bit too cuz of that mind state of like,

• 50:50Joe Rogan?

  I don't really, if, when I'm in the mode of painting, like, I don't have to go to the bathroom. I, I, I'm not hungry. Do you drink coffee or anything while you're doing that? Yeah, yeah, I, I drink espresso during the day, or like, I'll get a quad espresso and then it just kind of lasts most of the day, you know, till like noon or whatever. And that, I mean, that keeps me kind of on the level, I suppose, cuz there is some fat in there and like, the caffeine obviously helps. Yeah, it's a little, it's a little something. Yeah. Yeah, caffeine helps with hunger, but I think that what you're saying, the focus is probably the big thing. That you're just so locked into what you're doing that you're not even. Yeah, it's like I'm not even in my body anymore. Like, the body is separated from the mind in some way.

• 51:32Joe Rogan?

  That thing that you were talking about earlier, that is such a weird thing. The, where it feels like the, whatever you're working on just sort of takes over. This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist, and trust me, I know. I buy one, The Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it. They eat it up quick. It smells good to them. It smells good to me. It's human-grade food. The Farmer's Dog makes fresh food for dogs, and my dogs love it.

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• 53:43Joe Rogan?

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• 54:00Speaker 03

  To me, it's something subconscious, because like the way I look at jujitsu, or painting, or any real art form, as creative problem solving. So for me, all of those things, like it tickles the same part of my brain. To where. Like, I'll ask myself questions. Like, it tends to be like, you have to ask yourself the right questions. Like, I've had, like, I don't know how to use, how to fix a car to save my life. But I've had to fix some shit to where I'm like, hmm, what should I do here? Or, like, uh, you know, you'll just try something. But it's almost like a subconscious, uh, voice.

• 54:41Speaker 03

  Like I was saying, how the painting will kind of tell me how to, how, like, where to go next. To where I'm, I don't know an answer, but somehow I come up with it. Right? Just by kind of asking my brain, you know, what, what should we do here? And it's, it's, it's always, like, fascinated me that I'll, it's like, my brain comes up with solutions to these problems by, you know, running some computation of like, well, if we did this, this will happen. If we did that, this will happen. And I'll come up with ideas that are, like, I don't have, that aren't conscious ideas or thoughts.

• 55:17Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 55:17Speaker 03

  That seep in from some depth in my brain, that it's like, I've been, it's not my control. It's, it's not like a, like a brag.

• 55:28Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 55:28Speaker 03

  It's like some, some way of thinking that I can get solutions to problems that I don't know the solution to.

• 55:35Joe Rogan?

  Right, and you don't feel like those solutions are yours?

• 55:37Speaker 03

  No.

• 55:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's, that's, yeah.

• 55:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, it comes from somewhere else. It may, and I like to think of it as, like, some part of my subconscious, or some part of the brain that I'm not accessing in conscious reality, that is coming up with answers. But I'm, I'm amazed by it all the time. Like, if you've ever had, like, like, a light that wasn't working in your house, right? But if you, like, flipped the switch three times and then, like, turned the fucking heater on, somehow the light comes on? You know what I mean? Like, you figure out these ways to, to accomplish a... A task or figuring out a solution to a problem. And for me, I feel like with painting and jujitsu or now anything like I remember I I pinched a nerve in my neck. Like bad to where it's like I couldn't even sit up.

• 56:25Speaker 03

  And I was like, how the fuck am I gonna get out of bed? And just ended up like picking my leg up, hooking my arm behind my leg and doing like a jujitsu thing. To like sit myself up because I couldn't like actually set myself up. And I was like, I've never done that before. That's so fucking strange, but like, like my brain just told me to do that.

• 56:44Joe Rogan?

  Well, that makes sense, though. You know how to use your body from jujitsu and this would be a way to get up without using your abs.

• 56:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, but there's all kind of like, like fixing the fucking car like I. I don't know what I'm doing, but this seems to be like my brain telling me, maybe try this. You know, and with with all of these processes of, you know, martial arts and painting. Just some creative problem solving aspect of the brain that's almost separated from.

• 57:14Joe Rogan?

  And and gets nurtured with use.

• 57:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, it builds.

• 57:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 57:18Speaker 03

  Like it gets strong.

• 57:20Joe Rogan?

  Well, this is what Pressfield talks about when he talks about summoning the muse. You know, when he did you ever read the book, The War of Art?

• 57:26Speaker 03

  I haven't.

• 57:27Joe Rogan?

  I've got a copy. I'll give you a copy of it. He gave me a box of them because I I used to have a box of them on the desk in the old studio that I'd hand out to people, but it's a short read. But it's an amazing read on this concept of the muse. And that like treating this thing like you're a professional, you're gonna show up at this time and you're gonna summon the muse. And you're gonna do it with sincerity. And if you do that and you show up every day, it'll work. And it really does.

• 57:49Speaker 03

  That's what I do. That's exactly. I mean, I I live that like I get up, get coffee, I go to the studio. And I'm there until it's time to leave. Then I go teach at night and then I repeat the whole process.

• 58:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 58:01Speaker 03

  And it's joy. Like, there isn't a lot of, like, I, I probably have a bit of a short attention span to where like, things can get fucking boring.

• 58:10Joe Rogan?

  But obviously not painting.

• 58:12Speaker 03

  No, I, I leave after a long day and I feel myself feeling guilty that I'm not still there.

• 58:18Joe Rogan?

  Wow. You see, that's why I have a problem when people use that term ADHD. Cause I think about myself as a boy and I'm like, I know they would have fucking diagnosed me. If I had the wrong parents.

• 58:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:31Joe Rogan?

  I know they would have diagnosed me and they would have brought me to a doctor who would have put me on some fucking medication and it would have ruined whatever weird quality that I have that lets me focus on things intensely.

• 58:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:43Joe Rogan?

  You know, they wanna pretend that everybody has to be the same thing. Like, everybody can't be the same thing. We, we're all wired different. I'm not wired normal. I'm wired, like, if, what you're saying is boring, I'm like, oh, god.

• 58:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, how the fuck do I get out of here now?

• 58:58Joe Rogan?

  I know some people that are gonna, well, so what are you gonna do about that, Fred? They can have the boringest fucking conversations all day. I literally feel physical pain.

• 59:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:07Joe Rogan?

  When I'm being bored. But if I find something that's really interesting, like, really interesting, I can lock on.

• 59:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:14Joe Rogan?

  And when I lock on to that, I have no problem paying attention.

• 59:17Speaker 03

  And that's a fucking superpower.

• 59:18Joe Rogan?

  I think so, and I think they're fucking kids up, man. And I think there, there's a lot of lazy parents that don't wanna deal with this extraordinary child that has this weird thing that you haven't harnessed.

• 59:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:28Joe Rogan?

  And you're putting that kid on fucking speed. They're putting him on Ritalin and shit.

• 59:33Speaker 03

  That's, they were gonna try to give me Ritalin when I was a kid. You know, I wasn't a spazzy kid. I wasn't, it just, I was bored as fuck by what, like, whatever they were trying to do in school.

• 59:42Joe Rogan?

  You're an artist.

• 59:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:44Joe Rogan?

  But no one can recognize that. It's, it's almost like they wanna pretend that that is not a real option for a human. But why are there so many artists?

• 59:53Speaker 03

  No, I know.

• 59:54Joe Rogan?

  Like, what are you saying? How, how is that possible that you want everybody to fit into this fucking square peg? How is it possible that you're teaching and, and a kid comes along and he's bouncing off the wall, but that motherfucker could play video games like an assassin? I go, okay. Clearly, there's something going on with the video games that you're not providing him in the real world. And his ability to excel at video games shows he's extraordinary.

• 1:00:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:21Joe Rogan?

  It's just about focusing that.

• 1:00:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:23Joe Rogan?

  If you take some little girl who just wants to talk to her friends and joke around in class and you fucking medicate her, she could have probably been an amazing artist. She maybe she would have found a subject that she just like some kind of a science subject. She locks on to and now all of a sudden that thing doesn't exist anymore. It's not like she scattered all, no, she's just bored.

• 1:00:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:45Joe Rogan?

  What you're doing is boring. Your class is fucking boring. You have uninspired teachers who are underpaid. No one gives a fuck about them. They're basically babysitters.

• 1:00:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:57Joe Rogan?

  And you're bored. And because the teacher doesn't want to deal with you being bored, they tell the principal, the principal tells the doctor, the doctor recommends another doctor. And then little Billy is sitting there in this fucking doctor's office and then they pop him full of Ritalin. I had Henry Rollins on the podcast once and he's telling me they put him on Ritalin when he was a little kid.

• 1:01:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:18Joe Rogan?

  He said he was just fucking like, like all day long. My god damn, man. It's so nuts.

• 1:01:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, I remember seeing those kids too.

• 1:01:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:27Speaker 03

  Just like fucking spun out.

• 1:01:29Joe Rogan?

  Spun out. And now they're all on Adderall, man.

• 1:01:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, and that's fucking maybe.

• 1:01:34Joe Rogan?

  Bro, there's a ton of young kids out there in the world that do not have a problem. And they're on Adderall because it helps them concentrate. It helps their scores for college.

• 1:01:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:46Joe Rogan?

  100%. I guarantee it. There are kids out there in high school right now that are popping Adderall all the time so that they could do better on tests. So they could do better in college.

• 1:01:59Speaker 03

  And then they're taking Xanax to come down off the fucking Adderall. Like, so terrible. So fucking terrible.

• 1:02:06Joe Rogan?

  It's fucking terrible. And, you know, these pharmaceutical drug companies are just vampires.

• 1:02:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:13Joe Rogan?

  This is what you need. This is what you need, Mike.

• 1:02:17Speaker 03

  Seeing the fucking commercials, like during your show.

• 1:02:19Joe Rogan?

  Don't you wanna be happy? Don't you wanna dance in a wheat field with your child? Don't you wanna go to the barbecue?

• 1:02:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, actually I do.

• 1:02:26Joe Rogan?

  Look, everyone's at the barbecue, they're happy.

• 1:02:28Speaker 03

  Everybody's happy.

• 1:02:29Joe Rogan?

  You're not happy.

• 1:02:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:31Joe Rogan?

  Don't you wanna go to the barbecue?

• 1:02:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, first things. Finding the thing that is actually gonna bring you joy.

• 1:02:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, my friend Hassan Ahmad has a great bit about it. I don't wanna give it up, but it's a great bit, if you ever see him at the mothership. Did you see him?

• 1:02:43Speaker 03

  I caught the very tail end of his set when I got there.

• 1:02:46Joe Rogan?

  He's got a great bit about.

• 1:02:47Speaker 03

  Great guy.

• 1:02:47Joe Rogan?

  Pharm- he's great. He's got a, he's a funny dude, too. He's been my friend since he was a door guy at the Comedy Store. So it's so interesting to see him, like, from a very raw beginner.

• 1:02:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:57Joe Rogan?

  You know, to where he is now.

• 1:02:58Speaker 03

  I mean, you've gotten to see a lot of that, right?

• 1:03:01Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, I got to see with Ari and Joey and, yeah, Duncan. All those guys, yeah.

• 1:03:07Speaker 03

  Pretty wild.

• 1:03:08Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's been amazing.

• 1:03:09Speaker 03

  Even seeing how the comedy scene has kinda started to flourish here and kinda like build it, like, that little Sixth Street, uh, uh, way there is pretty wild.

• 1:03:19Joe Rogan?

  Oh dude, there's five full-time comedy clubs.

• 1:03:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:22Joe Rogan?

  Right there.

• 1:03:22Speaker 03

  I, I hung out with my buddy Roy, um, yesterday and I feel like I met like four or five comics just like standing around figuring out what we were gonna do.

• 1:03:31Joe Rogan?

  It's the hub and it's also, this is the most important thing, it's the hub for development of young people. It gives young people a real pathway, a real possibility. And we set it up that way on purpose, like, this is the idea, it's like, you cannot have a sustainable comedy community without new members.

• 1:03:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I, I, I find a little envy, uh, in that, like, that's a little tougher in the, like, visual arts world. It's because we're so fucking isolated. We're not like hanging out at the same spots all the time. And it's like, that's how things used to be, like, back in the day, like, the artists would all go to the same bar after they're done working for the day.

• 1:04:10Joe Rogan?

  Right, like, have an artist neighborhood.

• 1:04:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:13Joe Rogan?

  Like, LA had a bunch of neighborhoods where a lot of artists lived together.

• 1:04:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, LA is a little bit different from. Besides New York than the rest of the art world. It's like if you're not in one of those two or three hubs, like you're you're kinda isolated. You're like outside of that realm and we don't have that opportunity. I I really like enjoy that aspect of the comedy community. Where it's like you see everybody meeting up, like they see each other every day, they hug, they talk over shit, they can like kinda workshop stuff with each other. Like having that ability is is or like that community and that aspect is so powerful.

• 1:04:50Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's so nice. It's so nice. And so when you were there, it's like perfect setup, like Shane Gillis was there, Ron White was there.

• 1:04:59Speaker 03

  I got to talk with Ron for a while.

• 1:05:01Joe Rogan?

  He's the best. He's the best. He's such a fucking character.

• 1:05:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, so funny.

• 1:05:04Joe Rogan?

  Tony was there. It's so, we have this beautiful community, but it's also like the young people, the young people coming up. They're good, man. They're good and they're hungry and they're focused and they realize that there's a real pathway. So, cause we set it up so we have two nights of open mic nights, which is really important.

• 1:05:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:21Joe Rogan?

  Like you have to have chances for people to get on stage for the first time and and just chances to just develop.

• 1:05:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:27Joe Rogan?

  You just got a few minutes, you go up there, you tell a couple of jokes, try it again next week, try it down the street, try it over here, try it over there. And if you wanna do it, if you really wanna do it, there's a bunch of people that are also doing it here. So there's like a great community and it's pretty fucking positive, man. Everybody's pretty, instead of being cutthroat and backstabby, everybody's real supportive.

• 1:05:47Speaker 03

  Big difference from LA, right?

• 1:05:48Joe Rogan?

  Big difference.

• 1:05:49Speaker 03

  I I noticed just the sort of like every interaction I had while I was here for just three days just felt so genuine. Like, not like somebody's trying to get something from you.

• 1:05:59Joe Rogan?

  They're regular folks out here.

• 1:06:00Speaker 03

  Everybody just seemed like so laid back and chill and like still focused.

• 1:06:05Joe Rogan?

  Regular humans. What we were dealing with in Los Angeles was. Some amazing people. I miss, there's a lot of amazing people in LA. But the overall vibe of the city was a vibe of you were trying to stand out from everybody else and get famous.

• 1:06:24Speaker 03

  Yeah. You could feel it. You could feel it.

• 1:06:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:27Speaker 03

  Cause I mean, growing up in San Diego, like I spent a lot of time in LA. Like I could sense the feeling of like everybody, like it felt like everybody was trying to do something.

• 1:06:37Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:06:38Speaker 03

  Like every single person you saw on the street was up to something.

• 1:06:41Joe Rogan?

  And then it got real weird when reality TV came along, cause you didn't have to have any talent. So it used to be, you wanted to be an actor. And people that didn't have any talent in acting, you couldn't convince them otherwise. They thought they could do it. Everybody thought they could act, cause acting is essentially just talking. It's just pretending to talk when, you know, like we know the words.

• 1:07:00Speaker 03

  People do it so badly.

• 1:07:01Joe Rogan?

  So bad, but they don't think they do. Right? So it's a, but it's a thing that you can't discern. In a way, it's a little bit like comedy. Like you see a guy like Ron White tell a story on stage and it's so effortless and hilarious. That you think, oh, he's not even trying. I can do that. I tell stories. My stories are good too. And you think you could go do it because you don't understand what's actually happening.

• 1:07:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:07:22Joe Rogan?

  It's just confusing you. It's tricking you.

• 1:07:24Speaker 03

  Well, that whole routine, like the idea of like, like writing a monologue seems so obscure to me. Like I feel like I can be funny in a scenario where it's like people are talking and you have something to bounce off of. But to get up there and do a monologue by yourself, like that, it feels so alien to me.

• 1:07:43Joe Rogan?

  To you, because you're smart. But to a dumb dude who sees that, he's like, I could do comedy. And so there was all these people that were just looking at comedy and also looking at acting as a pathway to getting attention.

• 1:07:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:07:56Joe Rogan?

  And then it really got fucked with social media. So when I was leaving, but, but like a year or two before I left, I was already thinking about leaving. I was like, I gotta get out of here. And then I remember I was at a steakhouse and these people were there and people were taking pictures of them. I'm like, what is this? And someone said, I don't even think it was a TikTok influencer. I think it was a Vine influencer. Like, this is a Vine influencer. I was like, what does that mean? Like, what do they do? And it's like, oh, they dance. They dance around and like, people are here to say, I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, this is nuts. So it became another way that you could get famous. You could just fame, get famous by doing pranks or being obnoxious or, you know, taking your clothes off and yelling in traffic.

• 1:08:40Joe Rogan?

  Like, and so everybody was just trying to get famous. When you get out of there, you come to a place like Austin, there's this relaxation. Because they're just people.

• 1:08:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:51Joe Rogan?

  All that's gone. No one here is trying to get famous. It's very rare that someone's trying to get famous. And then, if you can insert a comedy community there that really values the process and the results of the art. That's what we're really all about. We're really all about killing. All that other stuff comes. The reason why Shane Gillis is the number one comic in the world is because he works hard and he's really fucking funny. And the process yields an amazing result.

• 1:09:21Speaker 03

  And he seems so sincere.

• 1:09:23Joe Rogan?

  Super sincere. But the point is, like, he doesn't give a fuck about fame. Like, he's not trying to get famous.

• 1:09:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:28Joe Rogan?

  I know him.

• 1:09:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:30Joe Rogan?

  Like, it's just not something that happened. We were joking around, you go, bro, fame sucks. We were in the green room the other night talking about how, how much fame sucks in some ways. I'm like, ah, you can handle it. You'll be fine. You're gonna handle it.

• 1:09:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's such a different experience. Like, as a, as a painter, like, nobody really fucking knows what you look like.

• 1:09:47Joe Rogan?

  They do now, bitch.

• 1:09:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:49Joe Rogan?

  They do now. Oops. Oops, I spilled coffee. Shit. Not much, luckily. It was almost out.

• 1:09:53Speaker 03

  But there's some, like, sense of stress to that.

• 1:10:00Speaker 03

  I mean, I've even experienced it a little bit with, like, hanging out with you a couple times of, like, people coming up and I'm like, fuck, this is so weird. Like, why, like, why do people act like this?

• 1:10:09Joe Rogan?

  They don't know how to act. They get weird. Well, that's the thing also that people like about being famous. They want people to be uncomfortable around them. They wanna be extraordinary without even trying. You know? It's a, it's a weird thing, man. It's a weird thing that has existed with royalty. You know, it's kind of the same thing. It's like this desire that people have to be exceptional and stand above everyone else for almost no reason. And the the fame thing in Hollywood was the thing that was holding the art form of comedy back too, because there was this velvet prison that existed, that if you were a good boy or a good girl, and you drew between the lines and you didn't say anything too crazy, you could get a sitcom. Or you could get a TV show.

• 1:10:52Speaker 03

  I mean, I've seen that. Where people just like, people who wanna be actors, take that comedy route.

• 1:10:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. They do, but also really good comics tone their shit down. They don't say what they actually think is funny anymore.

• 1:11:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:06Joe Rogan?

  They say what they think they can get away with and still get a TV show.

• 1:11:09Speaker 03

  Well, that's something that I noticed at the the show of like, having everybody's phones in the Faraday bags, or whatever those are, like, allows people to be a little bit more honest and

• 1:11:23Joe Rogan?

  It does.

• 1:11:23Speaker 03

  and direct, or like, really say what they wanna say.

• 1:11:26Joe Rogan?

  And more importantly, it allows the audience to totally lock in.

• 1:11:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:29Joe Rogan?

  Cause for a lot of these people, it's the only two hours of their whole life, where they're not gonna be on their phone.

• 1:11:35Speaker 03

  No, I know.

• 1:11:35Joe Rogan?

  Other than sleeping. You know, when you're when you're locked in and you're at a live show, it's so fun. It's so good. It's the it's the correct move for everybody. It's a correct move because, of course, everyone is working on new material, and you don't wanna get released before it's done, cause new material takes forever.

• 1:11:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:11:53Joe Rogan?

  It's like, it'll take months for a bit to, and sometimes it sucks at first, or it's offensive, like, something's wrong with that. You gotta, I gotta figure out a way that people are not mad, cause that's not what I'm trying to say. And you could figure it out, but it just takes a bunch of different iterations. And if someone fucking videotapes it and puts it up, it's like they did with Louis C.K. when he first came back. It screws up the whole process. It's like you're ruining that for literally millions of people, because it's eventually gonna get on Netflix and and people are gonna see it. But it's gonna take time. It's not, it's not a simple process. And we have to do it in front of people.

• 1:12:29Speaker 03

  That's the interesting thing about that art form too, like, you gotta work shit out.

• 1:12:33Joe Rogan?

  In front of humans.

• 1:12:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's not, it's.

• 1:12:37Speaker 03

  I'm sure what, like, the writing process in your head feels so much different.

• 1:12:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's a lot of processes. There's the onstage writing process, there's the writing process in your head, and there's the idea process, which is the trickiest one. Because the most difficult thing with comedy, really, is coming up with a subject that's actually interesting to you.

• 1:12:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:12:58Joe Rogan?

  Where you really find humor in it. And if those are the ones, when I can really find humor in something, that's the ones that I dig into the most, because I'm enjoying the shit out of the whole process of uncovering all the ridiculousness. But it has to be something where I'm like, "What?"

• 1:13:13Speaker 03

  That's how it is with painting, too. Like, I'm entertaining myself first.

• 1:13:17Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 1:13:17Speaker 03

  And then, hopefully, that connects with people somewhere.

• 1:13:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think it's all together. I think tattooists are like that. I think musicians are like that. I think it's the Miyamoto Mosashi quote, "Once you understand the way broadly, you see it in all things."

• 1:13:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:13:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's beautiful.

• 1:13:35Joe Rogan?

  It is beautiful, because I think you probably see it in the other things that you do. You see it in your art, you see it in jujitsu, and there's people out there that they're seeing it in writing, they're seeing it in sculpture, whatever. There's a thing, whatever it is, that allows you to get really good at the thing that you love. That thing takes over while you're doing it, and you're almost not there anymore. You're almost like a passenger.

• 1:13:57Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. And that's when you know you hit the good spot. Like, if, uh, I'm a big Bukowski fan, and on his, on his gravestone, it says, "Don't try." Like, that's the insignia, and then it's like a pair of boxing gloves.

• 1:14:11Joe Rogan?

  Another guy, famous drunk.

• 1:14:13Speaker 03

  That's, all of my favorite writers are self-destructive. I don't know, I don't know why, but they are.

• 1:14:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh. This episode is brought to you by Chime. And I know people don't usually get excited about banking, but Chime is doing something different, and it's worth paying attention to. In a recent survey, they ranked the number one choice for new checking accounts in America. That means real people, millions of them, are choosing this over traditional banks. That's because banking at Chime is fee-free. No monthly fees, no overdraft fees, and thousands of fee-free ATMs. But here's the real kicker. If you get their Chime card, it gives you 5% cash back on a category you actually pick yourself. Your savings rate, crazy high. It's nine times the national average. They're calling it the most rewarding way to bank. Go to

• 1:15:01Joe Rogan?

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• 1:15:42Joe Rogan?

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• 1:16:25Joe Rogan?

  Pro, backed by a 90-day money-back guarantee. That's drinkag1.com/joe. I found this the other day about Hemingway. Hemingway always thought that the FBI was trying to get him. Apparently, they actually were. Really? Yeah, they actually were. He thought that he was... Here, I'll send this to you, Jamie. You saw it?

• 1:16:47Speaker 03

  I saw it, it was like a meme going around the other day.

• 1:16:49Joe Rogan?

  Oh, here it goes. "The FBI investigated Ernest Hemingway for decades, with surveillance beginning in the 1940s due to concerns about his activities in Cuba and his associations with individuals suspected of communist ties. While initially dismissed as paranoid, it was later revealed that Hemingway's fears were grounded in reality, and the FBI did monitor him, even tapping his phones and intercepting his mail. The surveillance continued throughout his later years, including his time in the hospital, and may have contributed to his mental anguish and suicide."

• 1:17:18Speaker 03

  Damn.

• 1:17:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you can't fucking... What about booze?

• 1:17:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:17:24Joe Rogan?

  You get drank every day. Severe depression. Forty-two to seventy-four, they studied him. What'd you learn?

• 1:17:32Speaker 03

  That's wild. But that's that thing, there's that like, there's a meme or like a, somebody saying that like, you have to beware of the artists because they associate with everybody? You know, like, they're not just locked into like, an upper-class society, like, they're, like, even, like, where I was staying, like, I made friends with like, three or four homeless guys, just out on the street, that I just kept seeing around town from being around, you know, like, like, we associate with everybody, there's no, like, hierarchy of, of, of class.

• 1:18:05Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think if you really wanna be open, like, really open, you have to encounter a lot of different kinds of humans.

• 1:18:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:12Joe Rogan?

  You know, if you really, like, if you, especially if you're a comic, because you wanna, or a writer, if you wanna understand people, you have to interact with them.

• 1:18:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, because if, especially as a writer, like, you only have your own experience.

• 1:18:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:23Speaker 03

  If you just write your own experience, it's just gonna come off as like, every character is you.

• 1:18:28Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 1:18:28Speaker 03

  Like, to put yourself in the head of somebody else, it's...

• 1:18:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:31Speaker 03

  Like, you have to be open.

• 1:18:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you have to be.

• 1:18:34Speaker 03

  And have like, a, a certain form of, of empathy.

• 1:18:37Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:18:37Speaker 03

  To even understand how somebody else feels.

• 1:18:40Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's why there's the contradiction of the star comedian. Like, that's where things get weird. Like, the star comedian, because if you're a star and everybody's treating you like, "Oh, Jerry Seinfeld's here." Ksh, ksh, ksh.

• 1:18:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:18:51Joe Rogan?

  Take the pictures, like, you're walking the red carpet, and you're, like, you gotta be down with the people. You gotta be in the nitty-gritty.

• 1:18:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, you gotta find some trenches somewhere.

• 1:18:59Joe Rogan?

  You better figure out the trenches, because if you don't, and I think...

• 1:19:05Joe Rogan?

  If you think about like my favorite comedians, they were all self-destructive too.

• 1:19:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:19:09Joe Rogan?

  All of them. Uh, Richard Pryor, Hoover, lit himself on fire. Like, that's about as self-destructive as it gets. Kinnison, cocaine and alcohol, Hicks. Lots of drugs and then cigarettes till he got pancreatic cancer.

• 1:19:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:19:24Joe Rogan?

  Um, they were all, at least some way, fighting some fucking thing inside their head.

• 1:19:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, it makes me wonder like how much of it is like, maybe that empathy is too much? Maybe that, maybe you feel too much, you know, and you gotta, you gotta kind of numb it.

• 1:19:42Joe Rogan?

  Also, there's the, there's just the stress of the job itself.

• 1:19:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:19:48Joe Rogan?

  Like.

• 1:19:48Speaker 03

  Especially when you find success.

• 1:19:50Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:19:50Speaker 03

  Cause you gotta keep that.

• 1:19:51Joe Rogan?

  You gotta also still be putting out new stuff.

• 1:19:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:19:56Joe Rogan?

  So you got a chance to see me, I'm, this is all new stuff. Alright, this is the stuff that didn't, it wasn't on my Netflix special, so it's all in development. It's all like, and that process is, it's fun, I love it, don't get me wrong. But like before I go on stage, I'm amped up, I'm pacing, I'm moving around, I'm listening to Nas, I got some music playing, I'm getting my dance on. I'm having an espresso, I'm fucking breathing, I'm like, huh, I wanna get ready.

• 1:20:22Speaker 03

  That's how, why I always feel a little awkward in the green rooms, like, I don't wanna be too like, I'll be like, hi, okay.

• 1:20:26Joe Rogan?

  Listen, you're cool in the green room, you know how to handle green rooms. There's some dudes that are a real problem.

• 1:20:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:20:31Joe Rogan?

  Some dudes that start telling really terrible stories in the green room, and you're like, oh my god, this is so boring, we gotta get him out of here. But the green room is supposed to be just for comics, you know, and sometimes people will bring in people that are not supposed to be in the green room, and like.

• 1:20:44Speaker 03

  I was actually telling a story about that yesterday, when we were all at, uh, the American Comedy Co. in San Diego. When Doug was doing that, um, Doug Benson was doing the Chronic Con documentary.

• 1:20:57Joe Rogan?

  Mmm.

• 1:20:57Speaker 03

  Do you remember that?

• 1:20:58Joe Rogan?

  Not really.

• 1:20:59Speaker 03

  Fucking long ass time ago. But some guy came in who, I don't know, like a fucking investor, like somebody.

• 1:21:05Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he was coked up, right?

• 1:21:07Speaker 03

  I don't know, but, he grabbed a Bud Light bottle as though it was a bong. He was like, where's the weed? And like, like he was gonna like smoke a bong load out of this Bud Light beer bottle, dropped the bottle, broke it everywhere. Like, made a fucking scene, everyone's like, who the fuck is this guy? What is going on? Like, just the, like, way that people act so fucking strange, when they feel, like, almost like they have to perform. But their performance is horrible.

• 1:21:33Joe Rogan?

  Well, I don't think it's that. I think there is, that guy was on drugs, I think. And then also, I think they get anxious. They get anxious, right?

• 1:21:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:21:42Joe Rogan?

  People just get weird. They don't know what to do.

• 1:21:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, we're fucking strange.

• 1:21:46Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of fucking people that are barely keeping it together out there, dude.

• 1:21:52Speaker 03

  Sometimes I think that's me, but just, just barely hanging on, you know?

• 1:21:57Joe Rogan?

  No, you're fine.

• 1:21:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:21:58Joe Rogan?

  You're fine. But I think every artist feels like that.

• 1:22:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:22:02Joe Rogan?

  Every artist feels like is one thing that they could do one day that's gonna ruin their fucking life. They're always like that close to just, it's all just like this keeping it together thing that you have in your mind. You know, and you have to have, you have to have some process that you do that keeps you on the work and not on the self-destructive path.

• 1:22:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:22:23Joe Rogan?

  Cause if you're a person that like maybe has a drug issue and you're fighting that off and as long as you work all the time, like you're cool, like you're good, but then if you wake up late that one day and you're like, I just fucking one hit. I'd be good for just one little fucking, woo! Just a little tipsy. I could stop in the beginning. I was only doing it every now and then.

• 1:22:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:22:43Joe Rogan?

  You know, I can just go back to just like moderation. I think it's good. You know, it really gives me a little pep up when I need it. Maybe your doctor gives you a little Adderall and like the Adderall's good, but two pills is better. Three pills is really, I get so productive. I think I'd get my company off the ground. If I could just really concentrate with these three pills.

• 1:23:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, and then you, then you're fucked.

• 1:23:05Joe Rogan?

  Then you're fucked. So it's like, it's this balance that we all have and it's not just artists. It's just people in life. It's this.

• 1:23:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like dealing with insecurities. Whatever the insecurity is, you could fucking mask it with, you know, some drug or alcohol or whatever. Or you could lean into it and be like, okay, I feel this way. I, I accept that. What can I do?

• 1:23:26Joe Rogan?

  I think the problem is the term insecurity. Cause like, good lord, everything is insecure. Like the secure things, a lot of secure things are really boring. I mean, they're secure things that are awesome, you know?

• 1:23:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:23:39Joe Rogan?

  But there's a lot of that, that's, it's, that's not what it is. It's uncertainty. Uncertainty is what freaks you out. The, the options that are possible. The things that, the possible results, the variables, all the different things.

• 1:23:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, and that's gonna handcuff. Plenty of people.

• 1:23:57Joe Rogan?

  But you gotta learn how to handle that. You know, I used to, when I was teaching, when I was teaching martial arts, I taught a lot of kids. And I had a lot of kids compete in tournaments. I really loved doing that. I really loved it when they really got into it and they got better and I could see them improving. And then winning tournaments. It was amazing. But I remember I would, some kids would really struggle with competition. And I would tell them, that's because you're smart. And I go, you see these people that are not worried about this? They don't know what can happen to them.

• 1:24:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:24:31Joe Rogan?

  They're delusional. They think they're gonna be okay no matter what. But you're smart. You know that this is dangerous.

• 1:24:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:24:37Joe Rogan?

  That's good. You just have, you gotta use that. You gotta just hang on to it, use it. And then get in there and you'll be fine. Once it, once the fight starts, you're not gonna be scared anymore, which is weird.

• 1:24:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:24:50Joe Rogan?

  When the fight starts, then it's-

• 1:24:52Speaker 03

  Pain is just to exist.

• 1:24:53Joe Rogan?

  It's just happening. It's just happening and it's all automatic and it's all your, you know, you have instincts and you have an understanding of the game, but you also have just just dialed in technique. That's all it is. It's all about the execution of all the things you've practiced. And it all just happens. But the lead up is so bad. The anxiety before when you're sitting in a locker room waiting for your time, you're like, fuck! And I would just tell them, I would go, just, you gotta understand, this sucks, but this is just something. If you just can accept that this is here, accept that it's here and recognize that this is a gift. And this is here because you're smart. And the reason why you're worried about all these possibilities is because you're intelligent enough to recognize that that's the thing.

• 1:25:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, you're looking for the outcomes and then figuring out ways. That's kind of what I was talking about before, like predicting outcomes and figuring out solutions to problems that have yet to occur.

• 1:25:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:48Speaker 03

  Like when you're thinking that far ahead, like that's, it's a different chess game.

• 1:25:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and you, and the dull-minded nitwits out there that don't have any fear. There's a reason they don't have any fear because they don't have the capacity to comprehend all the possibilities.

• 1:26:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:26:04Joe Rogan?

  So if some guy is like, doesn't know how to fight at all, you've seen this a hundred times on videos online. And he gets in someone's face and that guy's like, just cracks them like, that dull minded shithead. He is not the fearful one. He's not the, he's not the intelligent one. The intelligent people are fearful. You should be fearful. It's good. It helps you, especially if you're about to do something difficult. And you should do difficult shit because it teaches you about yourself. And if you don't learn about yourself, you're always gonna wonder. And that's the problem with like a lot of men in the world, a lot of chest puffy, a lot of like fucking really arrogant, aggressive people. It's because they don't know themselves.

• 1:26:47Joe Rogan?

  So they're trying to impose a version of themselves on other people to be respected.

• 1:26:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:26:52Joe Rogan?

  You know, you find this in these fucking like business CEOs and execs who are like really aggressive and they weigh 80 pounds. Like, this is what this is. It's like they're, they're finding a way to try to figure out who the fuck they are. They don't even know themselves.

• 1:27:10Speaker 03

  And that's one of the things I like, I fucking know myself. Like spent so much time with myself in like a clear sort of frame of thought, knowing my limitations, knowing what I've accomplished when I was even more limited. Like, if anything, that's, I think this whole process is.

• 1:27:26Joe Rogan?

  That's the difference of process between an artist and like, say, someone who wants to be famous or somebody who wants to be worshipped. Someone who wants to be the head of a company or the president of the United States or somebody who wants to be beyond reproach.

• 1:27:38Speaker 03

  Nobody who wants to be president should ever be president.

• 1:27:40Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. It should be, but then again. Huh.

• 1:27:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:27:48Joe Rogan?

  You know, if you got like some benevolent, some truly benevolent dictator that we're all waiting for. We're all waiting for like the benevolent leader who's just gonna take control of it, but do it for the people. You know, Marcus Aurelius, some, someone who just really, really does have the people's best wishes in mind.

• 1:28:06Speaker 03

  Human greed is too fucking strong.

• 1:28:08Joe Rogan?

  It's too strong. And anybody that's willing to go through that process, that brutal process. You know, like, all the stuff that's in the news today, I mean, there's still, there's possible legal ramifications of things that happened in the 2016 election that we're hearing about today.

• 1:28:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:26Joe Rogan?

  It's like, these people are gross.

• 1:28:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, the whole thing.

• 1:28:29Joe Rogan?

  It's gr- it's the opposite of the Austin comedy community.

• 1:28:36Joe Rogan?

  So like, if we had to choose a president of the Austin comedy community, it wouldn't be that hard. Like, whoever wins is great, you know? If Shane wins, great. If Duncan wins, great. Who are you gonna elect? Who cares?

• 1:28:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:50Joe Rogan?

  Everyone's cool. But the, the presidential world is like, no, no, no, no, no, no. You have the backings of enormous, enormous military industrial complex

• 1:29:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:02Joe Rogan?

  corporations. Enormous amounts of money. Pentagon budgets beyond comprehension.

• 1:29:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:09Joe Rogan?

  It's gonna be a trillion dollars this year.

• 1:29:12Speaker 03

  And what does that even fucking mean?

• 1:29:13Joe Rogan?

  What does this mean? So like, the, the, the, the ability to be at the helm of that, like, there's gonna be no cooperation with the left and the right and, and you're seeing what happens when one group gets into power. What's the first thing they do? Like, what'd they do when they got into power? They immediately went after Trump. They hit him with a ton of different fucking legal charges. Most of them didn't make any sense. The fuck, the, all the crazy shit about overestimating his property in Mar-a-Lago, like, that is, the, the way they were using the law is like, oh my god, you people are gross.

• 1:29:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:47Joe Rogan?

  On both sides, on both fucking sides.

• 1:29:51Speaker 03

  That's, the whole system is so fucking corrupted. And it's so obvious, like, we're at a stage where, like, we have enough information to see.

• 1:29:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:59Speaker 03

  Like, that, how much greed and money just corrupts the system.

• 1:30:04Joe Rogan?

  But we, I don't think we really got to see it until Trump ran. I think you got to see it unveiled in a way when Trump ran that you never got to see before. Because also you got the rise of independent journalism that happens at the same time.

• 1:30:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:18Joe Rogan?

  So you have people that record, report just on the facts, not like this CNN fucking lean or the Fox News lean, but just like, just reports on exactly what's happening and how it happened. That just didn't exist before. So you get an understa- if you're paying attention and you follow those people, and a lot more people are than ever before, you get a way different understanding of how gross this game is.

• 1:30:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:41Joe Rogan?

  And because the guy was so polarizing, and because he was such an easy guy to turn into a Nazi. Like, you like, you pointed to him, you're like, this is the, this is our, fuck him, look at the way he talks.

• 1:30:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:52Joe Rogan?

  He's, he's gonna ruin the world, it's a threat to democracy, we could do anything we can to stop him. So what do they do? They stop all the primaries. They, they don't have real primaries anymore. They haven't had a real primary since 2012.

• 1:31:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:31:04Joe Rogan?

  They rig them. They rig it with Bernie Sanders, they rig it with RFK Junior. You know, they're just, the whole business is gross. It's gross.

• 1:31:17Speaker 03

  I wish us as humans were all, like, together enough to just self-govern.

• 1:31:22Joe Rogan?

  You would need, you would need people to enter into politics at the highest level that didn't need the money, and really were good people, that really wanted to just change the tone of how everything is governed. And that's gonna be so hard to do, because the money is so nuts.

• 1:31:40Speaker 03

  And that's I think-

• 1:31:41Joe Rogan?

  Do you see the Nancy Pelosi thing? The new one?

• 1:31:45Speaker 03

  I, she was being interviewed and then was like, I didn't want to talk about that.

• 1:31:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Anderson Cooper, put that on. Anderson Cooper, he sneaks it in, she's like, I came here to talk about the anniversary of Medicaid. Like, she cares about Medicaid. She's worth an estimated $400 million now.

• 1:32:01Speaker 03

  How? What's the salary? Seventy thousand a year?

• 1:32:04Joe Rogan?

  Hundred and seventy grand a year, something like that, two hundred grand a year, maybe? You know, but watching the panic in her face, realizing that Trump is now president and they're, they're talking about literally going after her for insider trading and the undeniable evidence that they have had better results on the stock market than literally anyone ever.

• 1:32:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:24Joe Rogan?

  And they have access to information about laws are gonna be passed.

• 1:32:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:27Joe Rogan?

  If that's not insider trading, what the fuck is?

• 1:32:30Speaker 03

  And that's what I mean, the, the, the greed, the level of greed is so strong that you shit.

• 1:32:37Joe Rogan?

  You got that video?

• 1:32:38Speaker 03

  She might even had good intentions getting into office.

• 1:32:42Joe Rogan?

  Shut the fuck up bitch, shut the fuck up.

• 1:32:44Speaker 03

  Or anybody, any.

• 1:32:45Joe Rogan?

  Shut your mouth.

• 1:32:46Speaker 03

  I feel like it's a system that.

• 1:32:47Joe Rogan?

  They're all demons.

• 1:32:48Speaker 03

  That corrupts.

• 1:32:50Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:32:50Speaker 03

  The minute you get in.

• 1:32:51Joe Rogan?

  I think so. I think if you want to succeed, like what happens, maybe you have these idealistic, you know, perspectives on how politics works or what you can do in your contribution and then you get in and you're like, oh Jesus.

• 1:33:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, it doesn't work that way.

• 1:33:04Joe Rogan?

  I have to survive, you know? Like I've had candid conversations with Tulsi Gabbard about what it was like and she's a person, she was like, tries to be friends with everybody, tries to reach across the aisles, she's got that whole aloha spirit.

• 1:33:17Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 1:33:18Joe Rogan?

  And she was like, it's crazy, like, it's like, the, the, just the, the amount of backstabbing that's going on. Like when she got into office, like first of all, you realize like you're not really in control of everything because there's another person who's in control of each individual department and they'll stop whatever you're trying to do every step of the way. They get in the way of everything and what are you gonna do, you gonna replace everybody? And how are you gonna find qualified people to take those jobs? This guy's been at that fucking, he's been the czar of this commission for 25 years.

• 1:33:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:33:49Joe Rogan?

  So he knows like all the ties and all the financial agreements. Here, let's watch this because it's so funny.

• 1:33:55Speaker 06

  Let me just read what he said. I'm sorry that we had some sort of technical issue. Nancy Pelosi became rich.

• 1:34:00Speaker 07

  Why do you have to read that? We're here to talk about the 60th anniversary of Medicaid. That's what I agreed to come to talk about.

• 1:34:06Speaker 06

  Yeah, but I wanted to.

• 1:34:07Speaker 07

  And what that means in the election.

• 1:34:09Speaker 06

  I wanted to give you a chance just to respond. He accused you of insider trading. What's your response to that?

• 1:34:14Speaker 07

  That's ridiculous. In fact, I very much support the stop the the trading of members of Congress. Not that I think anybody's doing anything wrong. If they are, they are prosecuted and they go to jail. But because of the confidence in it stills in the American people, don't worry about this. But I have no concern about the obvious investments that had been made over time. I'm not into it. My husband is. But it isn't anything to do with anything insider. But the president has his own exposure. So he's always projecting. He's always projecting. And let's not give him any more time on that, please. We're going forward here. And I'm

• 1:34:57Speaker 07

  very proud of my family. And while he might make fun of us, while somebody inspired by him breaks into our home and hits my husband in a deadly fashion, hits my husband over the head, and he thinks that's a riot, I'd rather not go into some of my other complaints about him right now. Rather to talk about the 60th anniversary of Medicare.

• 1:35:17Joe Rogan?

  Okay, okay, okay. First of all, what crazy projection. She immediately turned herself into a victim. She immediately like went from Jake Tapper's like, what's your response? This ridiculous. Nothing was insider. Nothing. We have $400 million, whatever, whatever. What's really important is Trump inspired a man who broke. First of all, how do you know? That guy was a literal crazy person that broke into that house. Yeah, that was a weird fucking thing, too. He was schizophrenic. He had a hammer. He smashed the back window. He broke into the house. Paul thought that he could talk the guy down. It looked like Paul had a drink in his hand. So he's probably a little lit. Yeah. Probably a little more calm than he should have been. And then the cops are at the door, and the dude hits him in the head with a hammer. That guy was a crazy person.

• 1:36:02Joe Rogan?

  You're blaming Donald Trump for that? No. That's so nuts that you have gone from you made an insane amount of money. A lot of people say you're insider trading. What's your response to that? My husband got hit in the head with a hammer. They're all black belt said deflection.

• 1:36:19Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's because they've, it's all because the president has a lot of exposure.

• 1:36:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, cuz it's funny, Trump does the same shit with her. If he's on the hot seat, Nancy Pelosi.

• 1:36:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:29Speaker 03

  You know, it's a, they all have that like natural deflection.

• 1:36:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, man, it's like.

• 1:36:33Speaker 03

  And it's like, we all fucking accept it somehow. Like, we might make fun of it or like, be like, cuz my bullshit meter goes off all the fucking time. Like, you're fucking lying to me right now. Like, you can see it.

• 1:36:43Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by Armra. Every week, there's some new wellness hack that people swear by. And after a while, you start thinking, why do we think we can just outsmart our bodies? That's why Armra colostrum caught my attention. It's something the body already recognizes and it has hundreds of these specialized nutrients for gut stuff, immunity, metabolism, et cetera. I first noticed it working around training, especially workout recovery. Most stuff falls off, but I am still taking this. If you want to try, Armra is offering my listeners 30% off. Go to Armra.com/Rogan. This episode is brought to you by Noco. You're miles from home, you turn the key, nothing, dead battery.

• 1:37:26Joe Rogan?

  Normally, that means finding another car, someone willing to give you a jump, and dealing with old jumper cables. But what if you didn't need any of that? Keep a Noco portable jump starter in your glove box and jump start your car yourself. No cables, no second vehicle, no waiting for help. It also works as a power bank and has a built-in LED flashlight. Noco, the end of jumper cables. Use code ROGEN10 for 10% off. Select jump starters at N O dot C O. There's a reason why that whole ability to trade stocks is still in position. And it's because they want it there. They make a shit ton of money.

• 1:38:11Speaker 03

  And they have all the insider information.

• 1:38:12Joe Rogan?

  They have to figure out at what point in time is this too dangerous? And who's willing to like, make this a law? Who's willing to change this? And are the, what politicians are gonna sign up board for that? Because they're actually voting against their own self-interests.

• 1:38:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:38:27Joe Rogan?

  Right? If they all decide. Like it's like they're playing chicken like as long as they don't do it.

• 1:38:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:38:33Joe Rogan?

  As long as they don't do it, then they could still make a ton of money. But if you look at the numbers, like if you look at like who's making money on the stock market, it is not all Nancy Pelosi. It is red, blue, red, blue, red, blue. It's pretty much down the middle.

• 1:38:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, as long as you could skirt the the legalities, why would you not take information that you have gained and try to utilize it to your improvement?

• 1:39:01Joe Rogan?

  And you're hanging out with Harry, the senator from fucking South Dakota or whatever. And Harry's got a yacht like, how did you get a yacht, Harry? Like, you know, Bobby's got his own private jet. How'd you get your own jet, Bob? You're a congressman like, what are you doing? And those people that are able to generate that kind of wealth. And I think she's like the the poster girl for it, unfortunately, but it's not her. Like, who's made the most? Yeah, let's find that out.

• 1:39:26Speaker 05

  There's an article here. I don't know if this is officially the most, but there's people that have made more than her.

• 1:39:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'm sure they have. Um, where's it say, though?

• 1:39:34Speaker 05

  More than 20, I remember here.

• 1:39:36Joe Rogan?

  Okay, more than 20 members made almost double the S and P 500 average gain, which is crazy.

• 1:39:42Speaker 03

  Yeah. You tell me it's like 0.5% more, but percentage more, okay.

• 1:39:46Joe Rogan?

  David Rousher, Republican, North Carolina. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Democrat, Florida. Ron Wyden, Democrat, Oregon. Roger Williams, Republican, Texas. See, that's the point. It's like, it's not blue, it's not red. It's just corruption across the board. They're all doing it. If you're making more than 50%, that's bananas. That's bananas.

• 1:40:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:40:12Joe Rogan?

  Like, what is their? Hold on, scroll it back down, scroll down. Okay, look at this. The Pelosi one, an almost cult-like following for her financial disclosures saw the value of her household's portfolio rise by 71% in recent years.

• 1:40:29Joe Rogan?

  Like that kind of trading is super unusual.

• 1:40:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:40:33Joe Rogan?

  To make more than double the average gain of 24.9. So make more than 50%. That's crazy. Nobody does that.

• 1:40:42Speaker 03

  No, and how would you, how do you, how do you explain that?

• 1:40:45Joe Rogan?

  And how do you explain those decisions?

• 1:40:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:40:48Joe Rogan?

  When you look at the decisions, like she dumped stock and then three months later, some big bill comes down the line that fucks that company.

• 1:40:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:40:54Joe Rogan?

  She buys stock and then three months later, some big bill that comes down that, you know, they're, they're funding for this new project. It's crazy. More than a dozen US officials sold stocks before Trump's tariffs sent the market plunging. Of course they did. Well, how about when Trump tweets out to buy? Remember that? That was part of this, yeah. Oh, that's crazy.

• 1:41:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's fucking nuts.

• 1:41:17Joe Rogan?

  Hey, don't do that. And it's crazy that he's in his own money too. How about that?

• 1:41:22Speaker 03

  And yet still, like, poor people are sitting here arguing about who's the better person. Like, it's fucking wild. Like, they're all corrupt and they're all fucking us.

• 1:41:32Joe Rogan?

  Some less than others. Some are, some are allowing us to talk. You know?

• 1:41:36Speaker 03

  And that's, I think, that's, when you see like the South Park episode with Trump, like, I know we're not, we're not in a fascist state yet. You know what I mean?

• 1:41:45Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:41:45Speaker 03

  We're still okay.

• 1:41:46Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 1:41:47Speaker 03

  We're still okay.

• 1:41:47Joe Rogan?

  As long as South Park exists, we're okay.

• 1:41:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:41:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I mean, look, it's all weird, man, because this system is completely fucked. It's completely fucked. And we don't want it to be, and they want it to stay the way it is. And so there's this weird thing where they have to get elected. So to get elected, they have to say the things that we want them to say. And so then we believe it every year, like, fucking Charlie Brown going to kick that football, Lucy pulls it away.

• 1:42:13Speaker 03

  Cunt.

• 1:42:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:15Joe Rogan?

  But what's the weirdest thing to me is that we're in this complete shifting of the polls. Where the Republicans now are in favor of free speech. The Republicans want to end the wars. They want to stop contributing to foreign countries. They, you know, they're, they want comedy to be comedy again. They don't want restrictions on people's behavior and thinking.

• 1:42:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:38Joe Rogan?

  And the Democrats have developed this sort of like cult-like idea of what everyone should accept. And what's normal and what's not normal and what needs to be, what needs to be. Elevated in our population and what needs to be ignored and it's just like, god damn, you guys are, you're ruining it for everybody that thinks in a left way. Like, anybody who's reasonable, like, a reasonable left-thinking person, which is most artists, by the way.

• 1:43:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:43:09Joe Rogan?

  And then you get to this point where you're like, no, I can't go along with you on all these things.

• 1:43:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:43:14Joe Rogan?

  You guys are, you're, you're just a bunch of fucking assholes who are using these subjects as a way where you can behave incredibly shitty, incredibly uncharitable, like vicious, mean, ostracizing people from society. I don't want any part of you. I don't want any part of the way you guys think and behave. And you pretend that you're doing it for good, you're doing it for, you're gluing yourself to the wall for climate change, the fuck you are.

• 1:43:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:43:40Joe Rogan?

  You're just a nut. You're just a crazy, entitled nut, and you're fucking up society.

• 1:43:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:43:45Joe Rogan?

  This is not the way that people should be behaving. And I can't believe it makes people go to the, the Republicans are smarter about it now, in this day and age, because they're like, hey, we'll take in, hey, it's fine, come over to us, you could say whatever you want, comedy's back.

• 1:44:02Speaker 03

  It's a big ebb and flow. To me, it's like, it's like some weird natural balance of like, things shift a little bit to the left, things shift a little bit to the right.

• 1:44:11Joe Rogan?

  But we gotta hold the center.

• 1:44:12Speaker 03

  If we motherfuckers could just figure out, like, we're so, we have so much in common, people just generally who would be considered more left or more right, and it's just a few things.

• 1:44:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:23Speaker 03

  That really are the, the basis of our, our contention.

• 1:44:27Joe Rogan?

  Well, the real problem is the team aspect of it.

• 1:44:30Speaker 03

  That's the, it's fucking retarded.

• 1:44:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's real retarded. Yeah, you can say it.

• 1:44:35Speaker 03

  I heard.

• 1:44:36Joe Rogan?

  Why can't you say it?

• 1:44:38Speaker 03

  I'm, I'm joking, yeah.

• 1:44:39Joe Rogan?

  Thank god you're joking. Some people panic. Please edit that out.

• 1:44:42Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:44:43Joe Rogan?

  No, retard's back. It's just, you know, I think it's gonna take time, but I think we're gonna eventually get to a place where we work it out, and my best hopes of AI, is my best hopes, because it could just ruin the whole world and take over everything and we could become slaves.

• 1:45:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:45:01Joe Rogan?

  My, my best hopes are, it gets to a point of efficiency and intelligence where corruption like that is impossible, and... It figures out a way to organize government spending in a way that actually helps us.

• 1:45:17Speaker 03

  Cause that's what we want. The left and the right both want like our tax dollars to be used to benefit the like everyone.

• 1:45:25Joe Rogan?

  Yes, unless you're running a business and you can get an advantage and that's where it gets gross. Cause those people can pay so much and I think AI is probably going to recognize that. It's going to say, listen, you want to really fix this? You have to stop this competitive advantage.

• 1:45:39Speaker 03

  Well, it's our ape genes, right? We're we're just fucking more advanced apes. That's it.

• 1:45:44Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 1:45:44Speaker 03

  And we still have, uh, you know, a tribal mentality that's encoded in our fucking DNA. And we have to, we have to elevate above that.

• 1:45:53Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 1:45:54Speaker 03

  And that just takes like avoiding greed.

• 1:45:57Joe Rogan?

  And it's also, it's like what you do when you paint is you focus on creating this thing. Like this is what you're focused on. What they're focused on is numbers in a bank account.

• 1:46:08Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 1:46:08Joe Rogan?

  And they're focused on getting those numbers in there.

• 1:46:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:46:10Joe Rogan?

  And they're fucking obsessed with getting those numbers in there.

• 1:46:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:46:13Joe Rogan?

  So all those other steps that they do, like you're trying to figure out your painting, you're trying to like brush techniques and different things. And you're trying different angles, maybe shadowing it differently. What they're doing is trying to figure out how to push this and push that and get this politician to make this legal. And that way they can make more money. And then Nancy Pelosi is like, we're gonna pass it, Paul. Put in, put in the wager, cause it's basically wagering, right? You know, buy the stocks, it's gonna roll.

• 1:46:41Speaker 03

  But if you have all the cards marked.

• 1:46:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it is. And it's, um, it's fucking, it's a real unfortunate thing. And how do you avoid that? Cause you really, you want corporations, you want them to make Apple fucking laptops and shit. You want a Samsung TV. You want these things, right? So how do you, how do you motivate? How do you get people that are motivated to make the best products in the world? And every year make them better? And not have them think only about making money to the point where they're willing to bribe politicians? So that they can pollute a river in India?

• 1:47:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, and that's what's so different about artists. It's like, we, I, I suppose, I would make paintings my whole life, nobody bought them, nobody gave a shit about them, I would still make them? And would give them away or put them in a fucking closet somewhere? Like, we, for me, I saw like, art as a way that maybe I could get out of like, the area that I was in. Like, I could grow a little bit. But at the, at the same time, like, doing the work was what was important? And what came with that was secondary. It was all just added bonus.

• 1:47:46Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:47:46Speaker 03

  Right? So like, if I worked, if I was selling fucking wheels or car tires? Like, I would only be thinking about the, how much money can I make?

• 1:47:56Joe Rogan?

  Right, that's the problem, especially if it's not, if you're not like a wheel and car tire enthusiast. It's one thing, you know what I mean?

• 1:48:03Speaker 03

  If you love it.

• 1:48:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like, I know dudes who work on cars? And they, they fucking love it, especially builders?

• 1:48:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:48:11Joe Rogan?

  Like, my friend Steve Strope, who's been on the podcast before, who made my Nova?

• 1:48:15Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 1:48:16Joe Rogan?

  That guy loves working on cars. He loves it. I mean, that is his art. But he makes custom-made cars and it's like, to him, is just like making a song. It's just like making a painting.

• 1:48:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:48:28Joe Rogan?

  But when you're only thinking about money, man, those are the people that are the hardest to hang out with. Like, you ever hang out with financial people? Like, you ever get stuck at a party in New York with a coked up financial guy?

• 1:48:39Speaker 03

  Have you seen this fucking Derek Moneybird fella?

• 1:48:43Joe Rogan?

  Oh, is he the jujitsu guy?

• 1:48:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, got his black belt in three and a half years.

• 1:48:47Joe Rogan?

  Right, but he, is, is he legit? Because he's with legit people.

• 1:48:51Speaker 03

  So I can't imagine. Jake Shields is a savage, like- All the respect.

• 1:48:56Joe Rogan?

  And Jake says he's legit?

• 1:48:57Speaker 03

  Ja- I think Jake gave him his black belt.

• 1:48:59Joe Rogan?

  Well, then he's legit. There's no way. I know Jake. There's no way. Jake is, his jujitsu is top of the food chain.

• 1:49:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:49:06Joe Rogan?

  And I know Gordon is trained with him. I know all these other people train with him.

• 1:49:09Speaker 03

  Uh, Danner was over there with him.

• 1:49:11Joe Rogan?

  I haven't heard anybody say anything negative. So here's the thing. Someone who is like super rich, which apparently this guy is, who trains with the best trainers in the world and actually puts the time in every day. It's super easy to dismiss someone because they're rich. Super easy.

• 1:49:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:49:28Joe Rogan?

  Zuckerberg is a primary example of that, right? I know for a fact Zuckerberg trains really fucking hard.

• 1:49:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:49:35Joe Rogan?

  And he goes with real guys. And he brings in people like Dave Camarillo trains with them. He's trained with a ton of people.

• 1:49:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:49:43Joe Rogan?

  So he takes it very seriously. He has access to incredible trainers and he's an obsessive. He's a very competitive obsessive person.

• 1:49:49Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:49:49Joe Rogan?

  So you could say, oh, he's got $200 billion. He can't kick my ass. That dude will fuck you up. That nerdy dude will fuck you up. And it's because he's actually put in the time. Now, he doesn't have the time that this Derek Moneyberg guy has.

• 1:50:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:50:05Joe Rogan?

  If this guy's got, if he's putting in like hours and hours every single day, which is what I heard, that he was like literally training multiple hours a day, every fucking day at jujitsu, you can get to black belt level. I don't know if he is, you know, but I know that if those guys say he is, I believe them.

• 1:50:23Speaker 03

  That's I, I told somebody, I was like, let me just see him do an arm bar from closed guard. Let me just see how, how sloppy that is and then I'll, I'll know for sure.

• 1:50:30Joe Rogan?

  Or not sloppy at all.

• 1:50:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, then exactly.

• 1:50:33Joe Rogan?

  Right. Why doesn't he just like show some drilling?

• 1:50:35Speaker 03

  That's all it would take.

• 1:50:36Joe Rogan?

  You don't even have to show me you're rolling. Let me see some tight drills.

• 1:50:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's all I would take.

• 1:50:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, let me see you go through. But you know, he doesn't have to. But then again, you kind of do have to if you project the fact that you're doing that.

• 1:50:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, if you take some sort of like braggadocious sort of angle like three, three years, seven months, got my black belt.

• 1:50:55Joe Rogan?

  Right. You should probably show something. Like, hey, let me show you guys.

• 1:50:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:50:59Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 1:51:00Speaker 03

  Cause otherwise. Cause when I started, I was doing fucking two a day. Two, morning class, night class. And, you know, none of that came fucking fast for me.

• 1:51:10Joe Rogan?

  But you might not have been the most naturally athletic guy.

• 1:51:14Speaker 03

  True.

• 1:51:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:15Speaker 03

  True.

• 1:51:16Joe Rogan?

  But night classes and day classes are great, but one on one is the ultimate. If you're a guy like him and you can get John Donahue to coach you, you can get Gordon Ryan to coach you, you can get all those Jake Shields, all, I mean, I've seen photos and videos of him from training sessions with the best guys in the world. So if you can get, and you're hiring them.

• 1:51:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, it could be a cheat code.

• 1:51:38Joe Rogan?

  It's a hundred percent a cheat code. It's one hundred percent, if you do it, if you actually do the work, it's one hundred percent a cheat code. But that's the, that's the thing, like you have to actually be training, like really hard. It's not as simple as you know those guys, you talk to those guys, they give you the fucking secret handshake and now you're good at jujitsu. The only way to get good at jujitsu is hard work, that's it.

• 1:51:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I, but I could never see somebody like Jake Shields, like fucking giving out a belt that wasn't deserved.

• 1:52:07Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no, it's like when you hear Guy Ritchie is a black belt, you go, really? And then you hear he's a Henzo Gracie black belt, you go, oh.

• 1:52:13Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:52:13Joe Rogan?

  Okay, he's legit, he's legit. Yeah. But there's not a lot of fake jujitsu black belts out there, man.

• 1:52:21Speaker 03

  Nah, I feel like we used to see more of them back in the day.

• 1:52:24Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:52:24Speaker 03

  There'd be like those funny videos of like somebody just.

• 1:52:27Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Eddie caught a couple of those.

• 1:52:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:52:29Joe Rogan?

  There's a bunch of those videos where a guy shows up at a, a, a school and he's got a black belt on and then he rolls with people and he gets tortured.

• 1:52:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was like before YouTube existed or any social media existed, you can kind of get away with it.

• 1:52:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, I think people, they, they're crazy, there's certain people that are just completely schizophrenic and they just.

• 1:52:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:52:46Joe Rogan?

  They get it in their head and they just.

• 1:52:48Speaker 03

  They're not even trying to like con people, it's just they really truly believe in what their, their mind is telling them.

• 1:52:54Joe Rogan?

  Well, that might be possible, but I think there's also a bunch of people that their whole life is a con, it's like a series of lies from the beginning to the end. It's just, they never live in the truth. And so for them to put on a black belt is just the latest of, yes, I was reading about this guy that like said he was a doctor and like did surgery on people for years. Yeah. There's people that are nuts, man. There's a, one out of three pilots in, I think it's Pakistan, doesn't have a license.

• 1:53:26Speaker 03

  That's fucking wild.

• 1:53:27Joe Rogan?

  They have fake licenses, see if that's true.

• 1:53:30Joe Rogan?

  I, I know I saved the article, but I don't feel like going into my phone and getting it. But it was like, Jesus Christ. Like, imagine you're on a plane and the guy doesn't really know how to fly?

• 1:53:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's fucking horrifying.

• 1:53:42Joe Rogan?

  Who's he, how does he figure out how to land that fucking thing?

• 1:53:45Speaker 03

  I mean, the amount of intelligence to pull that off? Like, you probably could have got your fucking pilot's license.

• 1:53:51Joe Rogan?

  Well, after a few successful flights, you would think that the guy would just go ahead and get the license.

• 1:53:59Speaker 03

  You're already doing the thing. That's like I see artists in art school. I'm like, you're already making art. You know how.

• 1:54:05Speaker 05

  There's a story from five years ago, so I don't know if it's changed.

• 1:54:08Joe Rogan?

  Almost one in three pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses.

• 1:54:13Speaker 05

  They didn't take the test or something.

• 1:54:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god. 262 pilots in the country did not take the exam themselves and had paid someone else to sit in on their behalf. They don't have flying experience, he said. Pakistan has 860 active pilots serving in its domestic airlines, including the country's Pakistan International Airlines flagship, as well as a number of foreign carriers. Oh my god.

• 1:54:37Speaker 03

  How many crashes are they having? I mean, if they're, if they're keeping them in the air?

• 1:54:41Joe Rogan?

  Right. Ambitious dudes.

• 1:54:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, fuck. Sometimes, sometimes you don't need a diploma.

• 1:54:46Speaker 05

  They found that out because of a crash.

• 1:54:48Joe Rogan?

  Oh, whoopsies.

• 1:54:48Speaker 03

  Oh shit. Alright.

• 1:54:49Joe Rogan?

  Whoopsies. Yeah, Jesus Christ. Oh my god, that's so crazy. People are so nuts, man. If you let them be nuts, they will be nuts.

• 1:54:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think.

• 1:55:00Joe Rogan?

  You gotta have, like, people don't want any regulations, they want anarchy. Like, shut your mouth. Shut up.

• 1:55:05Speaker 03

  I, I have this idea of like an altruistic anarchism. Where it's like, everybody just treats everybody kindly in the way that you would want to be treated.

• 1:55:15Joe Rogan?

  That would be great.

• 1:55:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it's so, it's, we're, the, our fucking ape mind is, there's too many of us that are fucking nuts.

• 1:55:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:23Speaker 03

  And greedy and like, just out for self. And I get it, like. It makes sense, like, there's a lot of self-preservation that comes with that. But if we could all just kind of pull collectively pull our shit together.

• 1:55:38Joe Rogan?

  Self-preservation makes sense when you're surrounded by a bunch of people that are also selfish. Right? That's part of the problem is like if you if you get lucky and you find a good crew like early on in your life of people who are down with you that are your friends and they love you no matter what. Life is way easier. It's way easier. And there's people out there that, man, they don't fucking have that. They don't. They have a bunch of people around them that suck.

• 1:56:02Speaker 03

  Just in a form of competition at all times.

• 1:56:04Joe Rogan?

  I mean, I'm a lucky person. I'm a very lucky person, but I think the biggest luck that I have is the people that I've met. It my friends.

• 1:56:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:56:13Joe Rogan?

  Because it makes your life so much better.

• 1:56:15Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, it shows like how much you you support. Your friends too, like, like, the idea that if we can all get lifted up. Together. Versus I'm gonna step on your shoulders and work my way to the fucking top.

• 1:56:29Joe Rogan?

  Right, but not only that, but it also shows that this my way works. Like, you don't. It doesn't hurt you to make other people successful or to help other people get more successful or to. Just to tell people they're awesome and give them their, as the kids call, their flowers. That's the kid I I struggle. I struggle with that one. The young hip hop kids like to say that. Give them their flowers. But, you know, it used to be given their props, but it's like. That. If you really love that person, that's good for everybody. That's good for you too. Like, the people that want to step on that person to elevate themselves, like, you're just ruining your own life. You're you're you're missing the big picture. And it's not necessary.

• 1:57:12Joe Rogan?

  It's not necessary, even in a competitive environment, even in something you're competing, like your friends. These people that you're competing with, they help you. They really do.

• 1:57:22Speaker 03

  It's almost a necessity.

• 1:57:24Joe Rogan?

  I think it's a necessity with comedy for sure.

• 1:57:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:57:26Joe Rogan?

  No, I always say this, that no great comedy exists in a vacuum. I mean, there's people that have talent that are in the middle of nowhere and some real small local scene, and they could become a great comic one day, but they're not going to on their own.

• 1:57:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:57:39Joe Rogan?

  They have to be around great comics. They can't just see them on YouTube. They gotta see like Dave Attell live. You know, you gotta see something like that where you're like, whoa. You know, you gotta see Colin Quinn live. You gotta see these people that are masters and see the thing that they do and get inspired by it.

• 1:57:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, and to start to learn it, like, understand the process. Like, that's the same thing for me, like, I, I thought I was gonna be like, uh, like do the Sunday comics in the newspaper, like, as a kid. Like, I didn't know, I didn't know what people did to make money making art.

• 1:58:12Joe Rogan?

  Were you into comic books at all?

• 1:58:14Speaker 03

  Not really, but I, like, I was more leaning towards that kind of aspect of like, this is how you can survive, like, actually pay your bills and make art.

• 1:58:27Joe Rogan?

  But you just wanted to make art.

• 1:58:28Speaker 03

  Just wanted to make art.

• 1:58:29Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:58:30Speaker 03

  And it took, I, I became an assistant for, um, a really well-known artist who, you know, ran a design firm, did fine art, did, like, ran, like, was just, like, like, at the top of his game. And I didn't go to art school, but I saw what he was doing. And a couple other artists, like, in the same, same area, was like, okay, you're, you're making paintings, you're, you're working with these companies to do some design. That design money is going back into your art, uh, practice. Like, it was just being able to see how something exists and then knowing, like, okay, I could do that.

• 1:59:11Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:59:11Speaker 03

  Right? We're, we're already doing the same process, but here is the sort of market of it. Here's how, here's how you survive, and here's how you continue to grow and thrive.

• 1:59:20Joe Rogan?

  And it's how you become a professional.

• 1:59:21Speaker 03

  It's how you become a professional, but, I mean, for, if you're, you know, in fucking Wyoming somewhere, you might not have these people that you see. You might, you're so disconnected from a community, you might not. Not know. And then you're like, well, I gotta give this this art thing up and, you know.

• 1:59:38Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:59:39Speaker 03

  Get a job because I gotta pay bills because you just don't actually have the awareness that there is a pathway.

• 1:59:45Joe Rogan?

  And this is the failure of the school system because it never teaches kids that are artists or people that have alternative ways of existing in society, that there's ways to make a career.

• 1:59:56Speaker 03

  I got kicked out of the only art class I ever took.

• 2:00:00Speaker 03

  This motherfucker, we had to draw a shoe or something. And I turned mine into like a robot because I didn't like how the shoe was turning out. And he said, you have to draw a shoe or I'm failing you. I'm gonna kick you out of the class. You have to draw a shoe. And I'm just like, kick me out then. And I knew like, you know, at fifteen, sixteen, that like art is what I decided is. That no, nobody else can say what the fucking rules are. Like, this is for me to do. And now, I forget his fucking, I wish I knew, I remembered his name. Tell him to fuck off.

• 2:00:32Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of those guys that turn people off. I had a high school art teacher turn me off to art too. He was just a dick. And then I found out that the most talented guy in the class is kid John DeVore, who I still contact every now and then we talk on email. He was the most talented guy. He gave that guy an F.

• 2:00:49Joe Rogan?

  And I go, no. So it's like, I hadn't communicated with John since I left art class. But we did a bunch of stuff together. We did a bunch of drawings together. And when.

• 2:00:58Speaker 03

  Do you ever draw anymore?

• 2:00:59Joe Rogan?

  No, not really. No. I do sometimes with my daughter. One of my daughters is really talented. Um, I draw sometimes with her, but for the most part, no. It's interesting. I did a little drawing on vacation. We were drawing stuff together. It was fun. But, you know, I just don't have the time to get obsessed with it right now. I'm obsessed with too many things. And I have to manage my.

• 2:01:19Speaker 03

  I'm still waiting for you to start golfing.

• 2:01:22Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 2:01:25Speaker 03

  Putting is pool on an undulated, uh, warped table.

• 2:01:29Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I understand. Listen, I know everybody that I know, that I love, who's into it, is obsessed. And that's part of the problem.

• 2:01:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:01:38Joe Rogan?

  It's like, I know what's coming. And I know it's like a fucking multiple hour thing. You gotta dress like an asshole, wear stupid shoes.

• 2:01:45Speaker 03

  You have to dress like an asshole.

• 2:01:47Joe Rogan?

  And then I see all these fucking fights where people are fighting on the golf courses. Do you see that drunken guy that got in a with a with a hockey enforcer?

• 2:01:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, threw threw the dude in the fucking lake.

• 2:01:57Joe Rogan?

  First of all, the size of that guy, the fact that you're squaring up and you're just bluffing and you're squaring up with this fucking.

• 2:02:04Speaker 03

  That's one of those spots where people think they're way fucking tougher because they got a bag full of clubs than they actually are. People get out of fucking control on a golf course.

• 2:02:13Joe Rogan?

  It's dudes.

• 2:02:14Speaker 03

  But it's so dumb.

• 2:02:14Joe Rogan?

  And it's drinking too. The guy was clearly hammered and I think he made a video afterwards apologizing.

• 2:02:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, good.

• 2:02:21Joe Rogan?

  Cause he was just drunk. He's just drunk and he got stupid, but he got stupid with. That's what I always tell people like, don't get in fights. One day you're gonna get in a fight with a guy who knows what he's doing and you're gonna get fucked up.

• 2:02:31Speaker 03

  Imagine that fucking fear. Like when he got grabbed by that fucking hockey player.

• 2:02:36Joe Rogan?

  He's got his jacket. He's just fucking hammering it with right hands.

• 2:02:39Speaker 03

  What a nightmare. But like, I hope he was like, wow, I really made a poor choice.

• 2:02:44Joe Rogan?

  No, at that time he was just drunk as fuck and probably thinking, I'm gonna get him back.

• 2:02:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:02:48Joe Rogan?

  I'm gonna get him back.

• 2:02:49Speaker 03

  Cause I know what that fear feels like when somebody really fucking like, you know, in a gym scenario. And somebody really grabs you and you're like, oh, fuck. Like, there's nothing I could do right now. Like, I tapped to Big Nog's side control. He squeezed me so fucking hard, it felt like my ribs were gonna come out of my mouth.

• 2:03:07Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God.

• 2:03:08Speaker 03

  And I, I, you know, I was like a blue belt and maybe he's still a white belt and I tapped to side control.

• 2:03:13Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 2:03:13Speaker 03

  And I started thinking, what if he was fucking punching me too?

• 2:03:16Joe Rogan?

  Well, also he's way bigger than you.

• 2:03:18Speaker 03

  He was fucking massive.

• 2:03:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he's way bigger than you. The, the, the, the amount of pressure, if you're a really big person, you put down on a small person, it's really kinda unbearable.

• 2:03:27Speaker 03

  But even somebody who's like my same, same weight or whatever, like that, when you really like, I'm fucking wrapped up and like, if this person wanted to, they could end me right now.

• 2:03:37Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, that was always the most, uh, eye opening to me when I would roll with guys who are thirty, forty pounds lighter than me and they just fucked me up.

• 2:03:43Speaker 03

  And immediately I was like, I never want to act tough in public again, ever. Like, that fear of like, if somebody, I, I got in, there was a guy who was, I was in a, like a time period where I was partying. A lot. This guy was just being a dick to a bunch of people, said something shitty to my friend. And I'm trying to walk away and it just like my, my brain was just like, say something. And I was just like, why are you being a fucking dick? Like, you know? And he puffed up and started coming at me and like, he like swiped something out of my hand. And immediately my instincts kicked into jujitsu. I grabbed, he had like a, like a, like a flannel on. I grabbed his collar like a lapel and I grabbed his wrist and just get like, immediately I was just gonna throw him.

• 2:04:29Speaker 03

  And then like the other voice in my head is like, the guy had a dog actually who wasn't on leash. And I was like, if I throw this guy on his head right now and his dog runs in the street, I'm gonna feel a little guilty. But I sensed in him that, you know, like when a grappler like grabs your wrist, like you feel it. It feels different than somebody else.

• 2:04:47Joe Rogan?

  It's someone who knows what they're doing.

• 2:04:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, like immediately grabbed both and like, put the squeeze on him that I could read in his eyes like, oh, that wasn't normal. And, and then I was like, no, no, no, like let go. And then he like walked away talking shit and I.

• 2:05:03Joe Rogan?

  That's good.

• 2:05:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:05:04Joe Rogan?

  Perfect.

• 2:05:05Speaker 03

  And you know, that, that's really rare for me, but it was like, he had said something shitty to somebody, but to have somebody grab you like that and the fear that can come with that.

• 2:05:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:16Speaker 03

  I would never want to experience that in real life.

• 2:05:18Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:05:19Speaker 03

  Like, fucking horrified.

• 2:05:22Joe Rogan?

  Well, all, street fights are stupid. They're terrible. And the people that know how to fight don't do them. They, they don't want anything to do with it. You should just go to a gym.

• 2:05:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:05:32Joe Rogan?

  Go to a gym. If you have this desire.

• 2:05:34Speaker 05

  Did you see this video recently?

• 2:05:35Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:05:35Speaker 05

  I saw it yesterday. You guys make me think of it.

• 2:05:37Joe Rogan?

  What happened?

• 2:05:38Speaker 05

  Uh, this guy on top, they're saying the guy on the bottom's a white belt. He gets choked out without the use of arms. It's all legs here. Gets put in the arm.

• 2:05:47Joe Rogan?

  Oh, this is so rude. Why is he doing this to a white belt?

• 2:05:50Speaker 05

  Well, I mean, they're training, I guess.

• 2:05:51Joe Rogan?

  I know, but it's so rude.

• 2:05:53Speaker 05

  That's where the. Would go to you guys being experts.

• 2:05:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, oh Eddie can do that.

• 2:05:57Speaker 03

  Very rude.

• 2:05:58Joe Rogan?

  No, well, it's kinda rude.

• 2:06:00Speaker 03

  See him shaking his head there?

• 2:06:01Joe Rogan?

  It's also that guy is just training. He's just using that guy as a practice dummy.

• 2:06:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, I do that sort of stuff.

• 2:06:09Joe Rogan?

  Triangles. It's kinda rude, but I mean, what do you want to happen if you roll with a white belt? Do you want him to win? Or you want to let him win? No, like what do you do?

• 2:06:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:06:17Joe Rogan?

  You tap him, you tell him what to do. Along the way, like you gotta protect this arm. This arm's in a bad spot. Don't reach back like that, cause then you open yourself up for the arm triangle. You gotta tell him, T-Rex, keep your arms in tight.

• 2:06:28Speaker 03

  That's how I coach.

• 2:06:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you have to.

• 2:06:29Speaker 03

  When I'm training with somebody, like I'm talking them through it. And I'll even, I'll do the thing where I tell them what I'm gonna do before I do it.

• 2:06:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:36Speaker 03

  So that they can start to work out their defenses.

• 2:06:39Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:06:39Speaker 03

  And like get an idea.

• 2:06:40Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's good.

• 2:06:41Speaker 03

  Cause as a black belt, like you could beat everybody up. Like, that kinda loses some of its shine after a while.

• 2:06:47Joe Rogan?

  I think that guy was using that dude as just a training dummy. He was like, I could just work my triangles.

• 2:06:51Speaker 03

  He's just working on his legs.

• 2:06:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:06:53Joe Rogan?

  Cause if you can cinch up a triangle, even on a white belt with no legs, at least you're getting reps in.

• 2:06:57Speaker 03

  No, yeah. And it probably makes it like somewhat more difficult.

• 2:07:00Joe Rogan?

  It's better than that dummy I have collecting dust in my gym.

• 2:07:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:07:05Joe Rogan?

  Dummy that I'll probably never use.

• 2:07:06Speaker 03

  Doesn't fight back at all, just like slight resistance.

• 2:07:08Joe Rogan?

  You know what I do use though? I use that bubba dummy. You know that thing?

• 2:07:11Speaker 03

  Uh-uh.

• 2:07:11Joe Rogan?

  The punching dummy? It's like the rubber, the face.

• 2:07:14Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, with the big water.

• 2:07:16Joe Rogan?

  There's something good for that, just target practice. It's good, you can't kick it too hard, cause it falls over. But if you, uh, you can kick the face, you could slap the face.

• 2:07:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, and there's something about those that just, you wanna kinda give them a little bit of the business.

• 2:07:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Fuck you, Bob.

• 2:07:32Speaker 03

  We have one sitting right next to our boxing ring in the gym, and I always post up and...

• 2:07:37Joe Rogan?

  It's really good for practicing certain kicks. It's really good for question mark kicks. Cause there's a shoulder element. And you're, with a question mark kick, you're really trying to go over the shoulder.

• 2:07:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, that little...

• 2:07:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like the glabefotosa, the fitosa one. Glabefotosa, fitosa had the absolute best question mark kick of all time. And his question mark kick would come down on you. It would go over the shoulders and just chop down.

• 2:08:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:08:01Joe Rogan?

  And like, that bob dummy is great for practicing that. It's like the best thing for practicing, cause the bag is so straight. You know, the bag kicking down like that, it's like, it's... You don't have a real target.

• 2:08:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:08:13Joe Rogan?

  Like you do with that bob dummy, because you're really trying to get the neck. You're really trying to go over the top and get that neck just.

• 2:08:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, such a strange looking kick too.

• 2:08:21Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah, it works though, man.

• 2:08:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:08:22Joe Rogan?

  That fucker works. That works a lot, because like you're worried about that front kick to the guts. So you'll do this, you know, or you think a low kick is coming and then it comes over the top and by the time it's you don't react it is you can't react in time.

• 2:08:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, like you're already planning to get kicked in the leg and by the time you figure it out, it's in your fucking ear.

• 2:08:40Joe Rogan?

  Exactly, and the guys that are good with like Luke Rockhold has a nasty one.

• 2:08:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:08:44Joe Rogan?

  Guys that are good with it like oof, oof. It's just so sneaky, over the top.

• 2:08:51Speaker 03

  Yeah. That's another, imagine just running into some Thai guy who you think you could throw around. He's just fucking blast you with a fucking knee.

• 2:09:00Joe Rogan?

  Not only that, the trips, they're so good at tying up in the clinching and dumping people. Have you ever trained with like a guy who's like really good at tripping you?

• 2:09:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:09:08Joe Rogan?

  As soon as you tie up, whoops, your leg is up and you're like, motherfucker.

• 2:09:12Speaker 03

  That's what I always want to throw like flying like ankle box.

• 2:09:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, that's the difference between like Muay Thai and Jiu Jitsu, because in Jiu Jitsu, okay, you threw me to the ground, now it's just started.

• 2:09:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:09:23Joe Rogan?

  And now I have a hold of your leg, then the referee's not gonna stand us up, I'm gonna break your knee.

• 2:09:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:09:26Joe Rogan?

  Like you dumbass, you threw me down with an inside control. I have an inside hook.

• 2:09:32Speaker 03

  It's like a fucking superpower too, man.

• 2:09:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:35Speaker 03

  I'm so glad I found it, like I owe a lot to you, I think. Uh, like the way you you spoke of it like back then. To like even just to get into the gym, because that's the fucking hardest part, like like crossing that door path and getting on the mat, like there's so many days where you're gonna be like, I don't want to do that, like I don't feel like it, but as soon as you get there, it's like so worthwhile and so valuable.

• 2:09:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you just gotta force yourself to do it, and that's something I really owe to Eddie. Eddie is crazy, you know, like creative and abstract as he is. He's super disciplined when it comes to his training. He was always like super, super disciplined.

• 2:10:11Speaker 03

  Well, you can see it, like my game is is very similar to like uh, to Eddie's and like Lucas Lech. Like that just wherever you can get a hold of the leg, like I pull, I like to pull to quarter guard. You know what I mean? It's like I like to play from there and like. I'm curious, I want to know how many people have the lockdown muscle in their fucking calf.

• 2:10:36Joe Rogan?

  I've got a lot too.

• 2:10:37Speaker 03

  No, there has to be there.

• 2:10:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:38Speaker 03

  But I've never seen one. And it's so fucking-

• 2:10:41Joe Rogan?

  Get that Tib bar, dog. Get that thing. Get that thing. It's not expensive. You put like a little plate on it and you lift, you lift with your foot. It's legit, man. And you could do Tib bar raises where you just stand on your heels and lean against the wall and just lift your foot up over and over and over again. That does it too.

• 2:10:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:10:58Joe Rogan?

  But the Tib bar thing, you could do it with weight. That's it, right there. Look at that sucker.

• 2:11:03Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:11:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I have that. I use that fucker every day. I have both of them.

• 2:11:06Speaker 03

  I've been wanting my butterfly guard to get better too.

• 2:11:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, man. This will have a big impact on it. And you could also use it to do a leg extension. So you could do a leg extension and then you could lift the foot at the top if you wanted to. So you could actually emulate.

• 2:11:20Speaker 03

  That's so funny.

• 2:11:21Joe Rogan?

  You actually do it from your back now that I'm thinking about it. You could put one of those in on each leg. And you could lie down on your back and you could specif- yeah, and specifically work butterfly guard.

• 2:11:34Joe Rogan?

  There's so many cool ways to work out now.

• 2:11:36Speaker 03

  I know.

• 2:11:37Joe Rogan?

  There's so many amazing people that have like figured out ways to protect your knees and protect your back and, you know, and help your shoulder stability and just they give it away. They give it away online. Like it's, we have such an amazing resource available now for training. Like think about like if you're a young guy, like there's these guys that are coming up that have only been doing jiu-jitsu for, like Joseph Chen. Like only been doing jiu-jitsu for a short amount of time, you know, like less than seven years, I think. And dominating. Also, why? Cause he's obsessed and because he has all this information online.

• 2:12:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:12:11Joe Rogan?

  You, you can watch so many instructional. There's so many videos of guys pulling things off. You can rewind it, watch it again, rewind it, watch again. Get together with your friend. Okay, put your, no, put your hand on the left knee. Okay, and then when I push, you pull and then watch that. Like, oh shit, that works.

• 2:12:29Speaker 03

  And that takes so long if you're just doing it like in an organic, like, training way. But the beauty, like, I, like, I came up with what, a technique that I haven't seen or haven't done before. That like, it can, everything continues to evolve, even as much as we've all trained the same shit for so long, like, there's still new avenues to explore, there's still room to be creative.

• 2:12:54Joe Rogan?

  Always. Like, that's one of the cool things that Eddie will do. Someone, someone pulls something off, and they have a thing, Eddie will go, "Show me that, show me that." Everybody, "Check this out." And they'll have the whole class gather around, and then like, "Tell me what you're doing. Talk me through the thing." "What I like to do is I like to get Mission Control, and then I shovel this arm through, and then I grip it like this." And they're like, "Okay, try that." And everybody tries it. And then Eddie will go, "Do it on me." And they're like, "Huh."

• 2:13:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:13:17Joe Rogan?

  "Let me try to do it on you." "Huh." Like, do not, somebody try to get out of this. And then they'll try to like, workshop it. Like, "Would it be better with this? Would it be better with that?" Like, "How did you get to this spot?" Like, "Why did, did you, do you have a pathway that you take to get to this? Do you get to this spot all the time?" "Huh."

• 2:13:32Speaker 03

  And that's so similar to your comedian sort of community, too. Like, you have that option.

• 2:13:39Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think that's why I brought that to the comedy community. Because that was always the way it was in gyms. Like, in jujitsu, and in, and kickboxing, and taekwondo, and Muay Thai, like, people teach you how to do stuff.

• 2:13:51Speaker 03

  And it's so good for us as a, like, a culture, too. Like, the way to interact with people who you may never interact with in your day-to-day life, ever.

• 2:13:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:59Speaker 03

  Like, to have that sort of community aspect, like, I feel like that draws a lot of people in. Outside of all the other benefits.

• 2:14:07Joe Rogan?

  Yes, there's a lot of community to it.

• 2:14:09Speaker 03

  And it's, and it's such a, like, vast array of different types of people, from every culture, from every sort of class level. And we all find a common equality, of course, with a hierarchy of, of experience. But we're all in the same boat together.

• 2:14:28Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's the same with yoga. It's the same with a lot of things.

• 2:14:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:14:31Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's just like, you find a group of people that have also found this very productive, very beneficial thing. "Where you going, Marshy?" Hi, puppy. Marshall just woke up.

• 2:14:41Speaker 03

  I saw your new puppy.

• 2:14:42Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he's adorable.

• 2:14:43Speaker 03

  Jesus Christ.

• 2:14:44Joe Rogan?

  He's Marshall's new buddy. They're really fun together.

• 2:14:46Speaker 03

  Is it a cocker spaniel?

• 2:14:47Joe Rogan?

  No, it's a King Charles spaniel.

• 2:14:49Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:14:50Joe Rogan?

  "Marshy, come here, buddy."

• 2:14:53Joe Rogan?

  Show everybody, come say hi to everybody. Come here, come on, come on.

• 2:14:58Speaker 03

  Such a cutie.

• 2:14:59Joe Rogan?

  He's tired.

• 2:15:01Speaker 03

  Long day, you guys go running?

• 2:15:02Joe Rogan?

  Come on up, not today, today he just, just came here to hang out.

• 2:15:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:06Joe Rogan?

  He's the best. Golden Retrievers are the absolute best dogs. They're just all love. They're just, they would just wanna cuddle with you, hang out with you, and they wanna play, but the whole thing is just like be with you.

• 2:15:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:21Joe Rogan?

  And he's sweet to everybody.

• 2:15:22Speaker 03

  I wish they lived like a hundred and fifty years.

• 2:15:25Joe Rogan?

  I know, they live, if you're lucky. Well, he's on a really good diet. We're putting him on a Farmer's Dog now. I'm changing his food, he was on the Maeve stuff, which is great, but he's on a raw food.

• 2:15:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's what I was gonna ask you, do the raw?

• 2:15:38Joe Rogan?

  Made a giant difference. Giant difference in the way he looks, the way his coat is, made a giant difference in his energy levels.

• 2:15:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:46Joe Rogan?

  You know.

• 2:15:47Speaker 03

  They're fucking wolves!

• 2:15:48Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's also, it's like, they're just like people, man. If you have a person and you feed them nothing but processed food, they're gonna be sick.

• 2:15:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, if you're eating cereal every day.

• 2:15:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, that stuff just sits on a counter forever. It sits on a shelf, you go to the pet food store, those bags are just sitting there, like, any real food shouldn't be just sitting there like that. It's gonna rot.

• 2:16:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:16:09Joe Rogan?

  So that means that food has nothing alive in it, you know?

• 2:16:12Speaker 03

  You gotta, you gotta give them the fucking raw.

• 2:16:14Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:16:15Speaker 03

  The raw.

• 2:16:16Joe Rogan?

  Well, like I said.

• 2:16:17Speaker 03

  You can cut it with the, with the dry food a little bit.

• 2:16:20Joe Rogan?

  You don't need to, you don't need to. This, the, the way they have these, like, with Farmer's Dog and with the, the stuff that he's been eating, Maeve, it comes with, it's like frozen, like, green beans and blueberries and potatoes and meat.

• 2:16:34Speaker 03

  It's fucking food.

• 2:16:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's food. And it just changes everything, man. They don't fart as much, like, it's, it's so much better for them, they have way more energy. It's like their, her whole, his whole body composition changed.

• 2:16:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, I love it when people like actually fucking care, like, their pet isn't just a, like, a fucking decoration.

• 2:16:52Joe Rogan?

  No, dogs are the best.

• 2:16:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:16:54Joe Rogan?

  Your, your life will be more loving if you have dogs. They're just always around. They're always cool. They're so consistent and they they have simple needs.

• 2:17:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:17:03Joe Rogan?

  They just wanna be.

• 2:17:04Speaker 03

  And just unconditional, they're unconditionally loving.

• 2:17:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:07Speaker 03

  All the time.

• 2:17:08Joe Rogan?

  Unless you get a working dog. And there's a lot of dummies out there that go and get a Belgian Malinois.

• 2:17:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:17:14Joe Rogan?

  And not understand like, okay.

• 2:17:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:17:16Joe Rogan?

  They're great dogs, but you have you have a responsibility now.

• 2:17:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:17:20Joe Rogan?

  Cause you don't have a regular dog. You have a super athlete.

• 2:17:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:17:23Joe Rogan?

  You're living with like a canine race car.

• 2:17:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:17:27Joe Rogan?

  That's really what that is. Like you, you can't just leave that in the yard.

• 2:17:30Speaker 03

  You see those people that train those dogs?

• 2:17:32Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:17:32Speaker 03

  Doing the little walk in between their legs as they're walking down like.

• 2:17:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, my friend Anthony just got one.

• 2:17:39Speaker 03

  Have a couple friends.

• 2:17:39Joe Rogan?

  He just got one. He's sending me videos of the puppy. I'm like, oh my God, this thing is like, bro.

• 2:17:43Speaker 03

  Wouldn't they jump like 25 feet in the air off the wall?

• 2:17:46Joe Rogan?

  They fly. They run.

• 2:17:47Speaker 03

  Backflips and shit.

• 2:17:48Joe Rogan?

  They run right up walls.

• 2:17:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:17:50Joe Rogan?

  There's a video.

• 2:17:50Speaker 03

  Imagine one of those fuckers chasing you.

• 2:17:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's hell. They're meat missiles. There's, this is, uh, I'll send this to you. I sent it to, I sent it, I'll send it to Jamie. Cause I sent it to Brian Callen. Cause me and Brian Callen are both retarded and we talk about dogs all day long. We talk about like, what's the coolest animal? But this video shows the difference between how a shepherd, a German shepherd, which is also a great dog, approaches, uh, something to the difference to a Belgian Malinois does.

• 2:18:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:18:19Joe Rogan?

  Have you seen it?

• 2:18:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's something across the chairs and shit.

• 2:18:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I sent it to you. It's great. It's nuts. Like the, the shepherd runs around. He's like, I'm gonna find a way to get to that guy. I'm gonna go around this way. The Malinois runs over the chair. Watch this. Here's the shepherd. So the shepherd, he's going around. He's gotta find the guy and he gets to him. He bites him. Watch the Malinois. Now let's do, look at the fucking Malinois over the top, over every chair. It's like just so driven. They're so driven and so athletic, man. And it's not that a German shepherd's not athletic.

• 2:18:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, right.

• 2:18:53Joe Rogan?

  But like in comparison, look at what this fucker does, man.

• 2:18:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:18:57Joe Rogan?

  He just runs over these chairs. He gets there in one second. Insane. They're so athletic. So like a dog like that is not like Marshall. Like Marshall is cool, just hanging. Here, chill, you got a Belgian Malinois, that motherfucker needs tasks. He's just like, it's basically like me. Like you gotta work him out, he's gonna do things. You can't just have him sitting in the house, he'll go fucking crazy.

• 2:19:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, otherwise he's gonna be smoking crack back in the alleyway.

• 2:19:22Joe Rogan?

  He is ADHD in dog form, that's what a Belgian Malinois is. Like, you can't put him on Ritalin, you gotta exercise that little guy.

• 2:19:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, you gotta work that shit out.

• 2:19:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, man, he needs, and it's like, if you have the time to do that, they're incredible dogs. But it's like, you gotta know what you're getting, you know, if you want a dog that just chills, get yourself a Golden Retriever. You want a family dog? Get yourself a go, or a Lab, they're the best, they just chill.

• 2:19:50Speaker 03

  I had a Boston Terrier for a long time.

• 2:19:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh, they're sweet dogs.

• 2:19:54Speaker 03

  I haven't been able to get another dog since, since he died. Like, it was like, too draining, too emotionally draining, like.

• 2:20:01Joe Rogan?

  It's hard, man.

• 2:20:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was like a family member, you know?

• 2:20:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's hard, man. It's hard, I still get sad thinking about my dogs.

• 2:20:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:20:09Joe Rogan?

  That have died. But, you know, there's loss and there's life, you just gotta appreciate them while they're here.

• 2:20:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:20:15Joe Rogan?

  I always love new ones too. I love everybody's dogs. I love Carl. Carl's here today. He seems like a little calmer with Marshall today.

• 2:20:24Speaker 05

  Growing boy.

• 2:20:24Joe Rogan?

  He's growing.

• 2:20:25Speaker 05

  He's getting his shit together.

• 2:20:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's just a puppy, right?

• 2:20:27Joe Rogan?

  He's also listening when you tell him stop now.

• 2:20:29Speaker 05

  He's listening.

• 2:20:29Joe Rogan?

  He's listening.

• 2:20:31Speaker 03

  Bulldogs are a special breed.

• 2:20:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:33Speaker 03

  Especially the English ones. Like, they're just stubborn little pricks.

• 2:20:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:37Speaker 03

  Like, they're gonna do what they want. I was watching a lady try to walk her two, like, young English Bulldogs this morning. They were walking her, like, and they'll, they'll put that little, you'll actually get it with the French Bulldog when they put the brakes on, and they're like, "We normally walk this way, but right now?"

• 2:20:55Joe Rogan?

  I'm going that way, bitch.

• 2:20:56Speaker 03

  I'm going that way, bitch, exactly.

• 2:20:57Joe Rogan?

  I'm the boss. Yeah, especially male dogs with their balls. They'll, they'll test you. He's never tested me, once. Not once.

• 2:21:05Speaker 03

  Not once.

• 2:21:06Joe Rogan?

  Never growled, never growled.

• 2:21:08Speaker 03

  Pretty fuck of mellow.

• 2:21:09Joe Rogan?

  He's the best. He, he, you know what he barks at? Um, snowmen.

• 2:21:16Joe Rogan?

  In my neighborhood, in my neighborhood, this guy had a, one of them inflatable snowman and I'm taking him for a walk and he sees like He's like, what the fuck is that? Is that a guy? Like he was the form of it, whatever it was, and it was one of the inflatable ones, so it's kinda like moving around.

• 2:21:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, kinda waving around.

• 2:21:32Joe Rogan?

  And he's like, yo, what the fuck is that? Is that a bear?

• 2:21:35Speaker 03

  Like, yeah, I would love to jump in a dog's brain when they have those moments.

• 2:21:38Joe Rogan?

  Right, like a snowman freak out.

• 2:21:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, probably looks like a fucking monster.

• 2:21:43Joe Rogan?

  Bro, it's so funny, cause you know, cause I'm relaxed and he's barking, I'm like, bro, can't trust me. I would, I'd be thanking you if that was a bear.

• 2:21:51Speaker 03

  He's looking back at you like, are we gonna fight this fucking thing?

• 2:21:55Joe Rogan?

  Are you fucking serious? That's a fucking guy. Like, no, it's just, it's just an inflatable thing.

• 2:22:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, he can be alright.

• 2:22:02Joe Rogan?

  But other than that, he never barks. He'll bark if he wants to be let in, that's it. He goes to the door and he just let out a little bark.

• 2:22:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:22:08Joe Rogan?

  Just let you know, hey.

• 2:22:09Speaker 03

  That's, Jamie and I were talking before, like, it's very interesting how you start to communicate with your dogs and you start to understand what they need and like, over enough time, you'd like, you have a silent communication, which is very, very peculiar.

• 2:22:23Joe Rogan?

  And he knows the difference between going for a hike and then coming to the studio. He knows the difference.

• 2:22:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:22:29Joe Rogan?

  He like, he like, you know, when he, if we go somewhere and he's gonna go run, he's all amped up and he gets out of the car. He gets here and he's like, hey, everybody's cool, what's up? How's everybody doing?

• 2:22:39Speaker 03

  Air conditioning's on.

• 2:22:40Joe Rogan?

  He's ready to lie on his back and get pet, you know?

• 2:22:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:22:44Joe Rogan?

  It's like, he's, he's the best.

• 2:22:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, dogs are fucking amazing. We almost don't deserve them.

• 2:22:49Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's just such a weird thing that we've done, because

• 2:22:53Speaker 03

  So bizarre.

• 2:22:54Joe Rogan?

  They used to be wolves and you can't train wolves. There's a reason why wolves aren't in the circus. Think about that. Think about that. You've got monkeys, bears and tigers that you can train to do circus shows in front of everybody. You can't train a wolf. They won't listen, but yet.

• 2:23:14Speaker 03

  Somehow we pulled it off.

• 2:23:15Joe Rogan?

  We turned a wolf into a dog that like li- literally listens to everything I say.

• 2:23:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:23:20Joe Rogan?

  Like I'll say, sit down buddy, relax and he'll just sit.

• 2:23:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:23:23Joe Rogan?

  You know, I'll go, all right, you ready to go? He's like, I'm ready. And he just gets up and goes like, it's like, how did that happen?

• 2:23:29Speaker 03

  And the fact that they have that like fucking super gene that they, they could transform into so many different variations.

• 2:23:36Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:23:36Speaker 03

  Of the same thing.

• 2:23:37Joe Rogan?

  Through selection. Yeah, that's what's weird, like selective breeding, where you could turn a dog into Carl. Like, you have enough time, you can turn a mastiff into this tiny little thing.

• 2:23:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:23:49Joe Rogan?

  You just need enough time and enough different select genes. And finally, this female's a little smaller, let's breed her with a smaller male, and this one has a shorter snout. Like, how even? How? What'd you do? How'd you get a chihuahua?

• 2:24:04Speaker 03

  From a wolf.

• 2:24:05Joe Rogan?

  A wolf. You know, they didn't even, they weren't even sure of that until like, I don't know, fucking 20 years ago.

• 2:24:11Speaker 03

  Really?

• 2:24:12Joe Rogan?

  They didn't know, they thought they came from wild dogs and shit. It's when they started sequencing the genome, they're like, what?

• 2:24:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's exactly the same.

• 2:24:19Joe Rogan?

  These are all wolves. Like, they kind of thought probably a lot of them came from wolves, like huskies and shit like that.

• 2:24:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24:25Joe Rogan?

  Like, no, all of them.

• 2:24:27Speaker 03

  That sort of symbiosis is really interesting too. Like how plants, like we have that symbiosis with plants and like, uh, like certain plants who have followed our evolutionary line down the way or, you know, like we get connected to these. I think sometimes we forget that we're still a natural part of the environment.

• 2:24:47Joe Rogan?

  Well, how weird is it that plants literally put their seeds in the middle of delicious fruit? So that we will eat it and shit it out.

• 2:24:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24:54Joe Rogan?

  And that shiv will act as a fertilizer and help it grow.

• 2:24:57Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's fucking wild.

• 2:24:59Joe Rogan?

  What a cra- not only that, but if you eat the seeds, they're bad for you. But if you swallow them.

• 2:25:04Speaker 03

  Cyanide in it or?

• 2:25:05Joe Rogan?

  So it's like evolutionary design, evolutionarily designed for you to just pass it through your digestive tract whole.

• 2:25:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:25:12Joe Rogan?

  Just swallow them.

• 2:25:13Speaker 03

  Or even the fact that it's the certain color that reminds us of a flavor.

• 2:25:17Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:25:18Speaker 03

  That like, a certain color looks delicious.

• 2:25:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:21Speaker 03

  And all it's doing is tricking us into eating it to shit it somewhere and allow itself to reproduce.

• 2:25:27Joe Rogan?

  Certain color that looks poisonous.

• 2:25:29Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:25:29Joe Rogan?

  So you're scared of it.

• 2:25:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:25:31Joe Rogan?

  You know, I was watching this, uh, video the other day of a spider that makes a decoy spider and puts it in its web.

• 2:25:41Joe Rogan?

  How?

• 2:25:42Speaker 03

  It's building a sculpture.

• 2:25:43Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:25:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:25:44Joe Rogan?

  And it looks like a fucking spider.

• 2:25:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:25:46Joe Rogan?

  Which is really crazy. So how does a spider even know what a spider looks like? And how did it develop?

• 2:25:52Speaker 03

  It doesn't have a mirror.

• 2:25:53Joe Rogan?

  Right. How did it develop this ability? To make a sculpture out of its own webbing? Like, look at this. That's crazy, man.

• 2:26:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:26:02Joe Rogan?

  I mean, that's really crazy.

• 2:26:06Joe Rogan?

  It's making a decoy.

• 2:26:07Speaker 03

  Yeah. Or like those caterpillars that look like they have a snake? As their tail or whatever?

• 2:26:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Or mantises? You ever seen mantis that make it look like their, their arms are giant teeth? They put their, their arms together like this?

• 2:26:22Speaker 03

  The little ridges?

• 2:26:22Joe Rogan?

  And they, they make it look like they have a giant mouth?

• 2:26:24Speaker 03

  Yeah. Such a fucking bizarre world.

• 2:26:27Joe Rogan?

  Like, how? That's, that's the wild thing about evolution. It's like, how? What is the entire process that allows something to develop where when the, the moth opens its wings, it looks like eyeballs?

• 2:26:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:26:40Joe Rogan?

  Like, what is that?

• 2:26:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:26:43Speaker 03

  Fucking, just life is really good at reproducing itself.

• 2:26:46Joe Rogan?

  How do you get a Venus flytrap where a plant tricks you into coming onto the center of this trap and then and then eats flies? Nuts!

• 2:26:56Speaker 03

  The whole thing. I mean, that's why you gotta like find some joy in it. Find, find like, find a little, you know, entertainment in how fucking bizarre everything is. We get so wrapped up in our day to day, in our just getting by, like, just having the moment to be like, wow.

• 2:27:14Joe Rogan?

  Wasn't that a part of a problem with working really hard too? Like, you, you, you know, you don't see the forest for the trees.

• 2:27:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:27:20Joe Rogan?

  And you can get caught up in whatever the fuck you're doing and like, forget, like, God, the world is pretty amazing.

• 2:27:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, the, the whole thing is so fucking bizarre.

• 2:27:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:29Speaker 03

  And I, you know, we're, we try so hard to act like we fucking know it all too. To just leave some room for some, some mystery.

• 2:27:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:38Speaker 03

  So important.

• 2:27:39Joe Rogan?

  Well, people are weird, man, and there's no real good working manual of how to live life.

• 2:27:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's, there's no right way. There's no right way. Like, and any advice anybody tries to give you. They're only working on their own experience.

• 2:27:55Joe Rogan?

  Especially when you're trying to pick a weird career.

• 2:27:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:27:58Joe Rogan?

  Like an artist.

• 2:27:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:28:00Joe Rogan?

  Like, good luck. Or a comedian, or an MMA fighter, or anything. Like, you wanna do that? Like, who are you gonna even ask?

• 2:28:07Speaker 03

  You gotta find what you love. And literally just fucking go for it. Like, and I, I, I know there's a sort of, uh... Like, okay, you got kids. You got a fucking mortgage. I get it, you know? Like, I'm, I've hustled all kinds of different ways to, to make sure I continue on the process, you know? On the path, but, like...

• 2:28:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's very different if you have people that you're taking care of, and those responsibilities are paramount.

• 2:28:37Speaker 03

  But then sometimes maybe that, that reward system that you would get from something else maybe comes from that.

• 2:28:43Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent. One hundred percent. But what, what we're saying is that, like, as you are listening to this, if you're going on your journey into life, and you think you might be going in a safe direction that's gonna make money versus the direction that you really wanna go to, ask yourself how bad you really want it. Like, what do you wanna do with your life? Do you want your life to be really fun? Do you want your life to be really rewarding? Where you wake up and you're excited about what you do? Or do you want every day to be a grind? Do you want every day to be like, you can't wait to get off so you can get a cocktail? So you can fucking calm down? Cause you hated, you hate everybody in the office, and everybody treats everybody like shit, and the boss is a dick.

• 2:29:26Joe Rogan?

  And you just get home, you just wanna drink and watch Netflix. Like, you gotta decide. You gotta decide. And you're gonna, you're gonna have to take some drastic steps. And you're probably gonna have a lot of doubt. Especially if you're doing something weird. Like, if you wanna be an artist, or you wanna be a comedian, like, huh.

• 2:29:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:29:44Joe Rogan?

  It's a long road, man.

• 2:29:46Speaker 03

  That doubt fuels. It can, it can handcuff you and make you stop, but it can also push you. To go further.

• 2:29:53Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's where doing something else that's difficult, so you know that you can do difficult things really comes in handy. And that's what I always preach about jujitsu.

• 2:30:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:30:02Joe Rogan?

  I think jujitsu above all of them is the one that you can do the most and you get the most out of it. And you can get hurt for sure, and I've been hurt a bunch of times, don't get me wrong, but it's a different kind of hurt than sparring. The hurt that you get from kickboxing and you know, that you were talking about from Muay Thai, it's different. You can't do that every day. You can't, you can't spar every day. You get hurt.

• 2:30:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:30:25Joe Rogan?

  You get, your brain gets beaten up, your fucking, your nose gets fucked up where you can't breathe out of it anymore. It's just, you don't want that kind of hurt. It's too debilitating and it could fuck with you for the rest of your life in terms of like the, just literally the way you think. Which was always the scariest thing for me. I remember when I was thinking about stopping fighting, it was like, cause I was lying in bed at night with headaches.

• 2:30:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:30:49Joe Rogan?

  From sparring days.

• 2:30:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:30:50Joe Rogan?

  And I was like, what am I doing to my brain? Like this is the only thing that I have that's gonna help me decide how to get through life. It's the only thing that I have.

• 2:30:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:31:00Joe Rogan?

  And once you start meeting people that you know are compromised, meeting people that you know have brain damage, like.

• 2:31:07Speaker 03

  Yeah. You're starting to see it, man. Like, I think people who have been fighters their whole life, you know, starting to see a lot of that, like go to the CTE or whatever the football players were dealing with and like how big of an effect, I mean, head trauma is so, so fucking damaging.

• 2:31:23Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 2:31:24Speaker 03

  Like, and the way that it could show itself in so many different ways.

• 2:31:28Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:31:29Speaker 03

  And like.

• 2:31:30Joe Rogan?

  Gambling addictions.

• 2:31:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:31:31Joe Rogan?

  Drug addictions, depression.

• 2:31:33Speaker 03

  Even like manias, like, like, like hallucinations.

• 2:31:37Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 2:31:38Speaker 03

  You know, I, I feel like it almost transforms people into like, uh, like waking nightmares.

• 2:31:45Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:31:45Speaker 03

  Sometimes for some people.

• 2:31:47Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 2:31:47Speaker 03

  To where it's like that feeling of like, you know, like you see somebody who.

• 2:31:53Speaker 03

  But there's somebody else.

• 2:31:54Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 2:31:55Speaker 03

  Right, like, there's, there's so many, like, aspects that,

• 2:31:59Speaker 03

  like, just end up destroying your, your normal day-to-day life, it's.

• 2:32:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, fucks up their hormones, it fucks up everything. And, you know, yet, it makes for this insanely attractive sport to watch.

• 2:32:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, and they love it.

• 2:32:14Joe Rogan?

  You just gotta know when to get out.

• 2:32:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:32:16Joe Rogan?

  You gotta know when to get out, and that's what's hard.

• 2:32:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:32:19Joe Rogan?

  And the really, the hardest thing is that they don't have anything else. Because in order to be really good at something like fighting, you have to dedicate your entire life to it. It has to be everything about your waking moment.

• 2:32:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:32:30Joe Rogan?

  And when it's not, and it's just a job, that's when it gets fucking dangerous, because those guys get really fucked up a lot of the time.

• 2:32:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, when you have to get the next fight to, to keep the fucking train rolling.

• 2:32:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And then you have a family, and you, and like, you realize, like, you don't have any savings.

• 2:32:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:32:45Joe Rogan?

  And so then to quit, like, what are you gonna do? How are you gonna generate, you know, if you're fighting and you're making two-hundred-fifty, three-hundred-thousand dollars a year, fighting three or four times a year? Like, how are you gonna replace that? With like, a regular job? Yeah, you're not, you don't have any skills. Like, all of your skills are in how to fuck people up.

• 2:33:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:33:02Joe Rogan?

  So what are you gonna do? You gonna teach? You could teach, maybe, especially if you're real technical.

• 2:33:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, but that's not gonna give you the same quality of life, or like, the, you know?

• 2:33:11Joe Rogan?

  It could eventually. I mean, there's some guys that make a lot of money off of teaching.

• 2:33:14Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 2:33:15Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 2:33:15Speaker 03

  But it's kinda rare, though, I mean.

• 2:33:16Joe Rogan?

  We have to be really good.

• 2:33:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:33:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you have to be really good.

• 2:33:19Speaker 03

  Because it's like, be franchising.

• 2:33:21Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of demand, you know, like, you could, if you're an Eddie Bravo, you can teach seminars, and you have a bunch of affiliates and a bunch of schools.

• 2:33:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, but he's in the top, you know, five percent.

• 2:33:31Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. Exactly, for most people, it's a grind.

• 2:33:33Speaker 03

  Yeah. And so, I teach, I, I was telling Zach, like, to me, jujitsu is like a parasite, and it got in me. And now it's trying to find other hosts. Like, I, I literally am just trying to share. But it's like, it's like jujitsu is forcing me to share it, regurgitating it into some other host so that it can regurgitate itself into somebody else.

• 2:33:54Joe Rogan?

  But it's a beneficial parasite. Don't you think that teaching helps your jujitsu though?

• 2:33:58Speaker 03

  A million percent. Like, I show all of my students, all of my tricks, so that when I try to use my tricks on them, it stops working.

• 2:34:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:07Speaker 03

  And then I have to evolve the tricks, or like, create other little smokescreens and diversions to get to the spot that I need to get, because they know.

• 2:34:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:15Speaker 03

  And I, I like to, I'll show stuff that I don't normally do, but a majority of my curriculum is stuff that I do. That I know works, that I know all the ins and outs of, I know every little detail of how you get to the spot. Like, what you do, what you do if they do A, B, or C, and that's what I share. And as I do that, like, I, I, I notice little techniques not working anymore.

• 2:34:42Joe Rogan?

  Well, don't you think it's also, as you explain the techniques to people, it tightens up your own understanding of the techniques?

• 2:34:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, a thousand percent. Because you have to think of it, and it, like, a lot of times our movements are muscle memory.

• 2:34:54Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:34:55Speaker 03

  Right? We don't really consciously think too much about it, because we've done it a thousand times, where it's like, I do this, then I do this, then I do that.

• 2:35:03Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:35:03Speaker 03

  And you don't think about it. But when you have to show somebody, you have to think about all those things that you never think about. Help explain it to somebody who doesn't know what the fuck you're talking about.

• 2:35:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:35:15Speaker 03

  And get them to grasp it.

• 2:35:17Joe Rogan?

  I've seen that time and time again in jujitsu, where a guy's pretty good, and then he starts teaching, like, coaching, like, beginners, one-on-one, private lessons and stuff to make some extra money. And next thing you know, he's a killer.

• 2:35:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:35:27Joe Rogan?

  It's like, wow, that's, it's, I think that's a missing part of the key to development, is teaching.

• 2:35:34Speaker 03

  I think, I, I'm honestly surprised when others don't want to do the same. Like, I never, like, I never gatekeep techniques. Like, I, if I see something that I think will work, like, I, I honestly think I'm a much better coach than I am a jujitsu practitioner. Like, I'm horrible at competing, like, just, sometimes I just be like, okay, I'm just gonna stay here until, like, kind of have a room to get out, and I don't have to try too fucking hard. But- I can see the game much better in my students and like we're my gym Steel MMA is a little bit of like a ragtag sort of like Bad News Bears kind of gym because there's so many high level competitive gyms in San Diego.

• 2:36:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:36:19Speaker 03

  But we go to all the local tournaments and we get on the fucking on the podium.

• 2:36:23Joe Rogan?

  That's cool. That's very cool.

• 2:36:25Speaker 03

  And we're not.

• 2:36:26Joe Rogan?

  San Diego is a tough place for Jiu Jitsu, dog.

• 2:36:29Speaker 03

  Shit, yeah.

• 2:36:29Joe Rogan?

  You got fucking Jaco's place down there, Barrett Yoshida's down there. How many people isn't was Hoyler had a school down there?

• 2:36:37Speaker 03

  Hoyler's still in San Diego.

• 2:36:38Joe Rogan?

  He's still in San Diego?

• 2:36:39Speaker 03

  Uh, he actually gave the guy who was the purple belt who threw me on my head that I was talking about earlier. He got his black belt from Hoyler. Um, Atos is there.

• 2:36:48Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, that's right. That's right. Oh, what a hotbed of Jiu Jitsu.

• 2:36:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like little fucking Brazil.

• 2:36:54Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that funny? Like California, especially like during the UFC's growing period, became one of the biggest hotbeds of Jiu Jitsu in the world.

• 2:37:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, they all went there.

• 2:37:03Joe Rogan?

  They all went there because they could surf.

• 2:37:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, you could surf. It like probably like climate wise fairly similar.

• 2:37:10Joe Rogan?

  Fairly similar and then a ton of population to draw from to get students.

• 2:37:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:37:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, especially in that LA area where it's like people were already kind of like into Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris and shit, right? And then, you know, you see Hoist just fucking freak everybody out.

• 2:37:26Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:37:27Speaker 03

  We, I mean, I watched all those early fights as a kid. I had a friend's dad who like would always fucking get the pay per view.

• 2:37:34Joe Rogan?

  That's another thing about Austin. We have so many Jiu Jitsu gyms here now. You know, Gordon has his place now. B Team has their place. You've got Gracie Baja's here. You've got, uh, Shangji Ribeiro's here. Everybody's here. There's like so many different gyms here. There's multiple 10th planets here. You know, there's, there's, uh, Gabe just opened up a 10th planet in Bastrop. There's a 10th planet right down in, in this area. There's a 10th planet. There's like three or four 10th planets.

• 2:38:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:38:06Joe Rogan?

  I think there's at least three.

• 2:38:08Speaker 03

  And they're all packed, right?

• 2:38:09Joe Rogan?

  Packed.

• 2:38:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:38:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:38:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's beautiful.

• 2:38:11Joe Rogan?

  It's like there's so many people that are interested in it because. You know, it really does work. It really helps you. And not just works like as a martial art to learn how to defend yourself. It's a like vehicle for understanding yourself better. It helps you in everything you do. As long as you just do it smart and don't get hurt.

• 2:38:28Speaker 03

  Exactly. That's like me trying to get up when I fucking, my neck was pinched. Like that was jujitsu.

• 2:38:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:38:33Speaker 03

  Like I use it in so many aspects of my life. Like it's such a, such a beautiful weird little sport.

• 2:38:39Joe Rogan?

  Yes, sir.

• 2:38:40Speaker 03

  Lifestyle.

• 2:38:41Joe Rogan?

  Mike Maxwell, I'm glad you came in.

• 2:38:43Speaker 03

  Joe Rogan, thank you for having me.

• 2:38:44Joe Rogan?

  My brother, uh, tell everybody where they could find you online.

• 2:38:47Speaker 03

  Uh, Mike Maxwell art.com and all the social medias are at Mike Maxwell art. Um, my gallery in Santa Monica is BG Gallery and I got a gallery out in, um, New Orleans, Mortal Machine. You could find my stuff out there.

• 2:39:01Joe Rogan?

  And is it all on Mike Maxwell art?

• 2:39:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, you can find all that stuff.

• 2:39:04Joe Rogan?

  Beautiful. All right, brother. Thank you.

• 2:39:06Speaker 03

  Thank you. Appreciate you.

• 2:39:06Joe Rogan?

  My man. All right. Bye, everybody.

• 2:39:23Speaker 08

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