#2568 - Ross Edgley

Ross Edgley is an ultra-marathon sea swimmer, athletic coach, television personality, and author. His new book, "How to Hero," will be available on November 10.www.youtube.com/@rossedgleywww.linktr.ee/HowtoHeroBookwww.rossedgley.com Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Don’t miss out on all the action this week at DraftKings! Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up using https://dkng.co/rogan or through my promo code ROGAN. Switch today at https://www. Visible.com for just 25/mo. Or Save $10 on your first month of Visible+ Pro with code ROGAN. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience. Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:13Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 0:14Speaker 02

  My man brought 18-year-old.

• 0:19Speaker 01

  That's good.

• 0:20Speaker 02

  Woo. That's the real deal. 18-year-old, single malt Scotch whisky.

• 0:26Speaker 01

  That's smoky.

• 0:27Speaker 02

  Delicious.

• 0:28Speaker 01

  That is smoky.

• 0:29Speaker 02

  I had a, this is a true story. I had a deal set up for a whisky deal. Like, they wanted to do, you know, they do these things, like, with celebrities. And I was like, well, I've got a lot of money. I guess I could do it. All right, let's do it. And so, they said that they could help me, like, design the whisky. I'm like, oh, that'd be really cool. So, first, I wanted to do it with Buffalo Trace. But Buffalo Trace was like, look, we love you, but the reality is, our whisky takes, like, eight years in a barrel, period. Like, that's the only way they do it. I go, oh, that makes sense. That's why it's so good. Okay, that makes sense. So, I tried this whisky, and I was like, oh, it's pretty good. It's pretty good. I gave it to my friends, like, it's pretty good. And then I fucked up. And I had some 18-year-old Scotch.

• 1:13Speaker 02

  And it was so good, I'm like, I can't lie. If, if I'll say this is my favourite whisky, but that will be a lie. Because this is so much better. This is, there's no substitute for time.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:27Speaker 02

  There's no substitute for time in those barrels.

• 1:29Speaker 01

  That tastes like Scotland as well, doesn't it?

• 1:31Speaker 02

  I remember one of the writers, when I was on news radio, he exposed me to this stuff. He said, uh, do you like whisky? I'm like, it's okay, it's kind of nasty. You just do it to get a buzz, right? He's like, no, no, no, you gotta, like, he, he was, like, very specific. You have, like, a large cube of ice, and he's like, come on, let me buy you a, it's like a $200 whisky. I'm like, what? $200 for a fucking glass? He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, trust me, trust me. And so, he bought me this glass, I was like, oh. Oh, okay.

• 1:56Speaker 01

  It was £200.

• 1:58Speaker 02

  It's a different thing. It's a different thing. If you drink a 20-year-old whisky, it's a very different thing. So, it cost me who knows how much money. Because I, I gotta get out of the deal. And they're like, what? And I was like, I can't. No, like, I can't lie. I can't lie and say this is my favourite.

• 2:15Speaker 01

  I respect that, I respect.

• 2:16Speaker 02

  I can't, I'm like, I could if I was poor. Look, if I was broke, I could lie. But, um, I have a lot of money, so I'm like, I'm not lying.

• 2:22Speaker 01

  To the sanctity of whisky, I respect that.

• 2:24Speaker 02

  Because this is, there's, they figured it out. Like, the Irish and the Scotch, the Scots, they figured it out. In Scotland, this is like, a religious thing.

• 2:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh, for sure.

• 2:36Speaker 02

  They don't fuck around.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 2:38Speaker 02

  You get some really old Scotch, man, really old Scotch whisky has a very distinct taste. And they're willing to wait fucking 18 years to get that taste. That's crazy.

• 2:51Speaker 01

  That just reminds me of Scotland.

• 2:52Speaker 02

  So, we had to stop the podcast before the podcast even started, because we were talking about so much cool shit, I'm like, I'm gonna leave the room. Because, uh, I don't want us to miss any of this. So, first of all, you were telling me you swam around, you had 60 hours in Loch Ness?

• 3:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:09Speaker 02

  Speaking of Scotland?

• 3:10Speaker 01

  Oh, because this is strange, because obviously, it was seven years ago now when we caught up, when I swam around Great Britain. And then, since then...

• 3:16Speaker 02

  God, that was seven years ago.

• 3:17Speaker 01

  Weird, right?

• 3:18Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 3:19Speaker 01

  Right? And then, and then now, I've just been on this kind of strange career trajectory, if you can call it a career, inverted commas. So, we did, yeah, a 60-hour, uh, non-stop swim in Loch Ness. Was going well, so it was all for ocean conservation. We raised so much money, it was amazing. It was going well up until the 60-hour point. Started hallucinating, started seeing things. Basically, the only way I can describe it is, um, uh, you're like, you're looking through the eye of a needle, it's just getting smaller and smaller and smaller, and then it just went completely black, it just went completely dark.

• 3:45Speaker 02

  Did you blackout?

• 3:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, blacked out. Basically, it was, uh, hypothermia mixed with cellulitis. So, cellulitis is, uh, skin infection.

• 3:52Speaker 02

  Staff infection.

• 3:53Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly. From the wet suit that was just getting to my bloodstream.

• 3:56Speaker 02

  Oh, God. You had a staff infection, and at the same time, you were hypothermic?

• 3:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:00Speaker 02

  And at the same time, you'd been up for three days?

• 4:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's exactly, it was a bad place to be, Joe. It was a bad place.

• 4:06Speaker 02

  That's so crazy. 60 hours of swimming is so insane. 60 hours of running is insane, but you could stop running and take a nap. You know what I'm saying?

• 4:15Speaker 01

  It was so bad, with the Loch Ness monster. It was bad, it was bad.

• 4:19Speaker 02

  Do you think that's real?

• 4:20Speaker 01

  Um, I mean, something touched my leg when I was in there.

• 4:22Speaker 02

  Ah, but you were hallucinating.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's true, I'm not the best person to ask. But exactly what you just said, that was strange, because my skin was on fire from the cellulitis.

• 4:32Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 4:33Speaker 01

  But then, I could feel in my bones, I was getting so cold. Um, anyway, long story short.

• 4:37Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  Blacked out, I woke up, and, um, just thought, oh, there we go, yeah.

• 4:41Speaker 02

  Clock.

• 4:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh, there you go, yeah, so you can see.

• 4:43Speaker 02

  Oh, that's all over your back and your neck?

• 4:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, you can see.

• 4:46Speaker 02

  Oh, so you're just ridden with staff infection?

• 4:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's how bad it was.

• 4:49Speaker 02

  Oh, that's horrible.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  And I think it was, it was that coupled with the hypothermia. So, this is gonna sound so strange, but, but it went completely black, I remember waking up, and then I was in the hospital.

• 4:58Speaker 02

  So, did they have to scoop you out of the water?

• 5:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 5:01Speaker 02

  How did they, did you have someone beside you, like, with a net?

• 5:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, we had, we had a team, and they were amazing, they scooped me up. I look, I basically opened my eyes, the next thing I know, I see my mum and my girlfriend at the, ahead of the, the hospital bed, and I just went, oh, it's not going well, has it? And they were like, Ross, no, it's not going well.

• 5:16Speaker 02

  You woke up in the hospital room?

• 5:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:18Speaker 02

  Wow. So, the entire transport to the hospital, you were out cold?

• 5:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 5:22Speaker 02

  How long were you out cold for?

• 5:23Speaker 01

  They think about 13 hours, yeah, I was sort of...

• 5:25Speaker 02

  You were out cold for 13 hours?

• 5:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, coming in and out, and I don't, I don't say it proudly, sort of coming in and out of consciousness, I still sort of remember little bits, but then, like I said, the main thing was just being there with my mum and my girlfriend, and they were just, they looked disappointed. I was like, I'm so sorry. So, so from there, what's interesting, a year later, uh, in Lake Tresamino in Italy, um, we did another swim for charity, it was amazing, everything was organised, but because of Italian bureaucracy, they said, you have to do it on this particular day. Um, getting into the water, it was 36 degrees, and I don't know what that is in Fahrenheit, but hot, it was a bath, basically. We got caught in a heat wave. So, going in there, um, I had hypothermia before, now I have hypothermia, so heat stroke. Um, we swam...

• 6:08Speaker 02

  So, you like swimming in a hot bath?

• 6:09Speaker 01

  Basically.

• 6:10Speaker 02

  What is 36 degrees in Fahrenheit? Is that like 90 degrees?

• 6:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, 96.8, yeah.

• 6:16Speaker 02

  96? Holy shit, that's crazy. What, is there a fucking volcano under there?

• 6:21Speaker 01

  This is it.

• 6:22Speaker 02

  That's nuts.

• 6:23Speaker 01

  So, they said it was the hottest month ever recorded in Italy. I got caught in this, um...

• 6:26Speaker 02

  It's gotta kill fish, no?

• 6:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was. I was swimming past fish that had been boiled alive.

• 6:30Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:33Speaker 02

  By the way, go back to that picture of him. Jacked? Jacked, son?

• 6:37Speaker 01

  That was after Iceland.

• 6:39Speaker 02

  You look like the real live Wolverine in that picture. It's like, if Marvel Comics, if Wolverine, that's what it looked like.

• 6:45Speaker 01

  You can see the chafing on my shoulder there, but no cellulitis, thankfully.

• 6:48Speaker 02

  Thank, thank God. So, this is, um...

• 6:51Speaker 01

  That was Iceland, yeah. Yeah, and I think what's interesting, so, so...

• 6:54Speaker 02

  Why did you, why do you think you got cellulitis from the water in Scotland?

• 6:58Speaker 01

  They think, because it was fresh water.

• 7:00Speaker 02

  Right.

• 7:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 7:02Speaker 02

  That makes sense.

• 7:03Speaker 01

  The swim around Iceland, for instance, just as bad, it was so bad, but equally, you've just got salt water.

• 7:09Speaker 02

  Right, but it's, it's not, doesn't have the bacteria content.

• 7:12Speaker 01

  Is exactly it, yeah.

• 7:13Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 7:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:15Speaker 02

  Of cour-, but, but, boy, fresh water's nasty.

• 7:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:18Speaker 02

  It's nasty. But especially it, well, it wasn't 96 degrees, but if it was, imagine that?

• 7:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:23Speaker 02

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• 10:42Speaker 01

  Well, I think what was interesting is from then, trust me, so I got rhabdomyolysis there. So that's just muscle breakdown, basically.

• 10:47Speaker 02

  You got rhabdo too?

• 10:49Speaker 01

  Bad. Yeah, really bad.

• 10:50Speaker 02

  Wait a minute, in Iceland or in Scotland?

• 10:52Speaker 01

  Well, certainly in Iceland, but in Italy. Yeah. So I had hypothermia and cellulitis in Loch Ness. Fast forward a year, then I got rhabdomyolysis and heat stroke in Italy. What's so strange, though, and I'm aware this sounds a little bit twisted, but as a sports scientist that obviously researched the theory and philosophy of all this, whereas actually subjecting my body to it, I was like, oh, cool. You know, this is what hypothermia feels like. And it was the same with rhabdomyolysis. So basically, sitting here right now, just chilling, you know, we've not been trained or anything like that. Ah, creatine kinase, so that's an enzyme that's responsible for muscle breakdown. And so when it's in your muscles, basically, in your blood, it says there's been some muscle breakdown. Sitting here right now, it might be about 80. If we had a hard workout, maybe 300. If you run a marathon, 1,000.

• 11:37Speaker 01

  If you run an ultra marathon, maybe getting up to 4,000, 5,000. At 10,000, you're creatine kinase. They are rushing you to a hospital. At that point, they're really worried about your kidneys that are just working overtime to try to filter it out. They said, Ross, yours is at 19,000, which is so weird for a sport where you are suspended in water. It's not even weight-bearing. You shouldn't have this amount of muscle breakdown. So I think thankfully, my kidneys did an amazing job. Shout out to my kidneys. It filled me out and got me out of the hospital in a few days. But I think what's so strange is that sort of a career then led me to swim around Iceland, where I just knew what rhabdomyolysis, hypothermia, cellulitis, I knew what all of those things were.

• 12:21Speaker 01

  So as a result, I kind of turned up in Iceland as this kind of bulletproof swimmer, who was like, oh, it doesn't matter what it's gonna throw at me, I'm gonna understand.

• 12:31Speaker 02

  Oh my god, dude, that is insane.

• 12:34Speaker 01

  And then we swam 1,000 miles around Iceland, which was amazing.

• 12:37Speaker 02

  When you were getting the hypothermia, they say that before people die, they get hot and they want to take their clothes off. Did you have that feeling?

• 12:44Speaker 01

  Exactly that. But I think part of that was the cellulitis as well, because my skin felt like it was on fire. But then equally, at the same time, like I could just, I was shivering with my internal organs. It's a strange position.

• 12:54Speaker 02

  Did you take into consideration the possibility of cellulitis before you got into that fresh water? Did you know about it?

• 12:59Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 13:00Speaker 02

  You didn't know about it?

• 13:01Speaker 01

  I became an expert afterwards.

• 13:04Speaker 02

  I would want to research, like, throw it in perplexity, like, what are the cons? What's the worst thing that can happen here in the water? What are the physical dangers I have to worry about with fresh water versus salt water?

• 13:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 13:15Speaker 02

  Is the Loch monster real?

• 13:18Speaker 01

  I should have researched that. I think what's weird, and I'm glad we started, you know, our catch-up like this, because I think so often people go, why do you do it? But I think now, looking at the anthropology of us humans, the history of us humans across different cultures, different countries, we've always been doing this idea of self-discipline for self-discovery.

• 13:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:36Speaker 01

  You know, you look at the marathon monks of Japan, for instance. Over seven years, over 1,000 days, will almost do a marathon a day.

• 13:43Speaker 02

  Those guys in Mexico from the Born to Run book?

• 13:46Speaker 01

  Exactly. Yeah, Tarama or whatever.

• 13:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, they just, they run either barefoot or with small homemade shoes. They make from rubber tires and shit.

• 13:54Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 13:55Speaker 02

  They make like sandals out of like retreaded tires.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  Exactly. I mean, it's weird as well, like even going back further as well. So I ended up doing a documentary ages ago, so about 20 years ago now. Did Ira Alaska for a week in the Amazon jungle with the Jamonahua tribe. At the end of this week, as part of the initiation into manhood, we basically then, this is such a random story, but they killed the snake, and you have to bite the tongue out of the snake.

• 14:22Speaker 02

  Pass. Hard pass. I'd rather be a boy forever. Fuck you. You can't tell me I have to eat a snake's tongue to be a man. Next thing you know, you gotta suck a pig's dick. If you don't suck that pig's dick, you're not a real man. Says who? Says some fucking guy in the jungle who doesn't even have star length. Fuck you. Fuck you, buddy. How about you get a pair of Nikes? You don't even have shoes, you fucking idiot.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  I was young and impressionable. I didn't question it, so I did it. I bit the tongue. John bit the tongue.

• 14:52Speaker 02

  I would have bit the tongue too. I'm just fucking around. I would have definitely bit that tongue, especially if they brought me in and put face paint on me and shit.

• 14:59Speaker 01

  That was it. I was caught up in the moment. I was caught up in the moment. We all do.

• 15:03Speaker 04

  Sorry for a sidetrack. I got a sidetrack when I was looking up people biting tongues of snakes.

• 15:07Speaker 02

  Men get high from cobra bite on tongue.

• 15:10Speaker 04

  It says they got high for at least a month.

• 15:13Speaker 02

  Oh my god. Why'd you hate your life so much? You sign up to get high for a month by getting bit on the tongue by a cobra? You're like, fucking take me away. This job sucks. I just want to be high.

• 15:25Speaker 01

  We've all done things we regret, you know?

• 15:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, but that's off the charts. Getting bit on the tongue by a cobra? I'd be like, is there a way? Can I just grab the cobra venom and put it on a fucking Q-tip?

• 15:38Speaker 04

  Maybe a little better. It's after an astrologer's nightmare advice they did it.

• 15:42Speaker 02

  Oh, after astrologer's nightmare advice.

• 15:45Speaker 04

  This might be a different story.

• 15:47Speaker 02

  Well, that's a different snake too, isn't that?

• 15:49Speaker 01

  Performing a ritual, that was probably what I was doing, yeah.

• 15:51Speaker 02

  Deadly snake bite bit a man's tongue after an astrologer told him that performing a ritual with the serpent would stop his nightmares.

• 15:59Speaker 01

  That is essentially what I did.

• 16:01Speaker 02

  Bro, where's that guy from? Say that, say that name. Ross, you got it. Go for it.

• 16:06Speaker 01

  Gobi Chachi do palan yum.

• 16:08Speaker 02

  That might be accurate. That's pretty goddamn good. That's a real-world traveler, ladies and gentlemen. That's how they pronounce things. They roll their Rs and shit. Can you put that back up, please?

• 16:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:18Speaker 01

  That was nuts.

• 16:19Speaker 02

  This is crazy.

• 16:20Speaker 01

  So this is the thing. So he wasn't lying.

• 16:22Speaker 02

  So this is a different snake. This is the Russell's viper. One of the most common snakes to inflict bites on people in India. During the ritual, the man mimicked the snake's tongue flickering movements, which is when the incredibly deadly snake bit him on the tongue. Yo. After the snake bit the man, the priest attempted to make a cut in his tongue using a knife, which only worsened the pain. Shocker. I thought that would have fixed everything. The venom from the Russell's viper usually causes cardiovascular complications, hemostatic abnormalities, renal failure, and is renal failure, what is that?

• 16:59Speaker 01

  Essentially, I think it's the kidneys, basically, no doubt, doing their job shutting down. The internal organs just go.

• 17:03Speaker 02

  So like rhabdo?

• 17:04Speaker 01

  Mm, yeah.

• 17:05Speaker 02

  Very similar.

• 17:05Speaker 01

  Very similar.

• 17:05Speaker 02

  Those who are bitten need treatment immediately. The man was rushed to a nearby medical center. Jesus Christ. Did that guy even get high?

• 17:12Speaker 04

  This was not, this was in the same.

• 17:14Speaker 02

  Surgery was performed, probably for the cut on his tongue. You're like, who the fuck did you let cut your tongue, dude?

• 17:19Speaker 04

  Also in India, they get high off of this. So it was a side-by-side story there.

• 17:24Speaker 02

  So this is the same snake or the cobra?

• 17:27Speaker 04

  Different, different, different.

• 17:28Speaker 02

  This is the cobra.

• 17:29Speaker 01

  Loads of people doing it. So this, see, this makes me feel better.

• 17:32Speaker 02

  But here's my question. It does make me feel better too. But here's my question. What is the venom? Like, can't you just rub it on your tongue? Can't you put it on like a spatula or some shit?

• 17:41Speaker 04

  There you go.

• 17:42Speaker 02

  Oh, boy, fella. Why?

• 17:45Speaker 01

  No, no, I didn't do that. No, no, no, no. But he's making out with the name.

• 17:50Speaker 02

  Then all of a sudden, you're in front of God. And God's explaining the nature of life and the universe. It's a continuous cycle. And you've done this a million times before, and you're getting better at it, but you're not done. And when you do get done, you will be God. Bye.

• 18:06Speaker 01

  That's amazing. I wish I'd have had that experience.

• 18:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, it'll last three days. For three days, you're talking to God and God's coming out of a serpent's tongue.

• 18:14Speaker 01

  That's amazing, but we did that. I think, what was it, I didn't, as was slightly different to that. So basically, after you had, basically just, you know, tongued a snake. They turn to you and they go, okay, now you have the wisdom of the jungle, but you cannot speak for 24 hours. So everyone's just like that, okay, we take a vow of silence. And then for the next 24 hours, one of the things that they had us do was climb a tree. So I disappear about four meters up this tree, holding on like that, completely naked. And they just start smacking the bottom of the tree.

• 18:44Speaker 02

  Naked?

• 18:45Speaker 01

  And I just get engulfed in fire ants, but can't make a sound. You can't make a sound. And they said, if you make a sound, the spirit of the snake will haunt you for the rest of your life. But if you don't make a sound, you'll be blessed with the wisdom of the jungle.

• 18:56Speaker 02

  How old were you?

• 18:57Speaker 01

  Twenty-one. Yeah, twenty-one.

• 19:00Speaker 02

  So was that the beginning of all this self-torture?

• 19:02Speaker 01

  I think it might have been. This has turned into therapy.

• 19:05Speaker 02

  How many times did you get bit by a fire ant?

• 19:07Speaker 01

  Oh, loads.

• 19:08Speaker 02

  Did they get the nuggets? They get the whole thing?

• 19:10Speaker 01

  They got all the nuggets.

• 19:12Speaker 02

  They got everything?

• 19:13Speaker 01

  They got all the nuggets.

• 19:13Speaker 02

  Damn, son.

• 19:15Speaker 01

  But, but I think it's interesting that when I talk about my swims.

• 19:19Speaker 04

  What, Jamie? This kills fucking 60,000 people a year in India.

• 19:23Speaker 02

  What? Oh, my God.

• 19:26Speaker 04

  I would say you're lucky to be alive, clearly, but.

• 19:30Speaker 02

  Wow. Well, I don't know if it's the same snake.

• 19:33Speaker 04

  This is from the, this is the Russell's viper.

• 19:35Speaker 02

  Right, but he didn't get a Russell's viper. He was in the Amazon.

• 19:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 19:39Speaker 02

  That's a different animal. The Indian thing seems insane, though.

• 19:43Speaker 01

  I don't know what's going on here.

• 19:43Speaker 02

  They let it bite their tongue. I guess India, like in certain parts of it, life is so hard, they're like, fuck it. I'll do anything. You know what I mean? Like, you see some of the scenes online of India and the pollution and the rivers is so, it's so preposterous. You're like, how did it get this bad? Where like entire rivers are filled with plastic? Like, you don't see any water at all, you just see plastic. And then you see people just dumping their stuff into that river. You're like, is there no adults in the room? Like, how the fuck did this happen? There's no other way? There's no other way to do this than to dump all the plastic in the river and everyone's in agreement? This is crazy. Like, what the fuck? Give me the snake. I'll take that snake.

• 20:25Speaker 01

  That's my way out.

• 20:27Speaker 02

  Let's go, I want to talk to God. How many times do I have to do this? Forever? This is, how many times have I done? Hundreds of thousands? Oh, no, I thought I was unique.

• 20:37Speaker 04

  Oh, my God, there's pictures.

• 20:38Speaker 02

  What do you got?

• 20:39Speaker 04

  Dude, I don't want to.

• 20:40Speaker 02

  Show me. Let's go. Oh, boy, necrosis of the tongue.

• 20:45Speaker 01

  Oh, nice.

• 20:46Speaker 02

  Oh, God, these assholes, they get their tongue rotted out because that's one of the things that venom does. That's why like when a rattlesnake bites you, it's so dangerous. It's not just the venom can kill you, but it also rots all the fucking tissue around where the bite is. I saw this poor guy, he got bitten and he had multiple reconstructions of his arm and he documented it all online. And this was quite a while ago. It was like the early days of the internet. But this guy did this documentation of what his arm looked like from the time he got bit by this rattlesnake to like eight surgeries later. Crazy. Think DraftKings isn't available in your state? Think again. The cage is set and DraftKings keeps the full card at your fingertips in one sports app live in all 50 states.

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• 22:35Speaker 02

  So this guy's doing it to his tongue. Oh.

• 22:37Speaker 01

  But I think it's weird as well. This is going to sound so strange, but I, I think sometimes, that granted is strange because it's voluntary. But again, this is a weird example, but I was living with the, in Olenyok, so in Siberia, with the Avengi herders out there. And I think so often we've become too civilized. We, we kind of have civilization over survival. You know, and there's certain things that they do, whether it's, they rely on the reindeer, they, they kill them, they have them for their, for their milk, butter, make all sorts out of them. But this one particular story, I'm going to apologize in advance now. But to manage the amount of reindeer that they have in these huge herds, they basically said to us, look, we need to basically castrate some of the male reindeer because they're fighting. So we still need them, but we need to castrate them. I was like, okay, that's a bit off key, but give me the knife and I'll do whatever you need to do.

• 23:22Speaker 01

  And they said, no, no, no, no, stop being there, Ross. We actually do a form of semi-castration. So we just want to make them slightly more docile so they're not fighting as much.

• 23:29Speaker 02

  They do it with the teeth?

• 23:30Speaker 01

  Exactly that.

• 23:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, they, they grab them from behind and they bite their nuts with their teeth.

• 23:35Speaker 01

  That's exactly it, yeah. So when I was out there, they said, would you like to perform it? I'm not proud of it.

• 23:42Speaker 01

  That's what I did.

• 23:44Speaker 02

  I understand that they have to do that, like the way they geld horses. You know, they do that with horses as well. I understand it, but I don't want to be a part of that. I won't even do that to my dogs. Like, I went to a veterinarian once and she literally cradled my dog, Johnny Cash. I had this mastiff named Johnny Cash, he was the best. And this lady cradled his balls. She goes, what are these? Why are these here? I go, well, those are his testicles and he was born with them. And that's how his body produces testosterone. And she's like, wouldn't it be responsible to have him neutered? And I was like, why would that be responsible? He's not having unnecessary babies. Why would, why do you want his body to not produce testosterone? Is it because there's a narrative? Is it because you profit off of it? Like, what?

• 24:29Speaker 02

  Fortunately for me, I had a doctor, when I first moved to Los Angeles, a veterinarian, who was an, I mean, this guy was an animal lover. I mean, he was like a dog whisperer. I brought my dog in and immediately he was like my dog's best friend. And I said, should I get him fixed? He goes, no, there is no reading. He goes, you have a fence? Your dog's not going to hop out and make puppies that aren't going to be taken care of? If you're a responsible dog owner, don't get your dog fixed. I go, really? I thought it was like for their health so they don't get cancer? He goes, complete horse shit. He goes, if dogs get cancer, it's most likely probably from really bad food. They're eating shitty food, just like people get cancer. You know, not a lot of animals get cancer. It's not, well, Tasmanian devils do. But they get cancer from biting each other.

• 25:15Speaker 02

  They're one of the weirdest cases of cancer. They have a transmissible cancer. Like Tasmanian devil, like the cartoon? You ever seen those fuckers in real life?

• 25:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 25:24Speaker 02

  They, they have the craziest sounds. Anyway, my point is, don't cut your nuts off your dog if you're a responsible dog owner. Because they get tired. Even Huberman, we were talking about Huberman before? He did it to his bulldog and he felt bad, so he started giving his bulldog testosterone.

• 25:38Speaker 01

  He said, yeah, when I caught up with him, yeah. Is it true as well? Sharks don't get cancer as well. They've got these crazy immune systems.

• 25:43Speaker 02

  True, yeah.

• 25:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, sharks.

• 25:44Speaker 02

  Also, they don't have bones. It's like, we're so distant from them. They're so old.

• 25:48Speaker 01

  My God. So, yeah, I went swimming with the great whites of Tasmania.

• 25:52Speaker 02

  What?

• 25:53Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 25:54Speaker 02

  What, where?

• 25:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, you'll be, you'll be aware of this as well.

• 25:57Speaker 02

  Tasmania?

• 25:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:58Speaker 02

  So outside Australia? The real ones?

• 26:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:00Speaker 02

  The real ones? Those are the OGs.

• 26:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, they get big. They stop growing, the females certainly, they stop growing in length at a certain point and they just get bigger. It's just a submarine with teeth.

• 26:09Speaker 02

  Like New Zealand rugby players.

• 26:11Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly like that. Exactly like that. It is nuts. They, they explained to me, they basically said, they have something called the ampullar lorenzini. So they're able to pick up electrical impulses. Is your heart beating quick? Are you, are you twitching? Do you look like prey?

• 26:25Speaker 02

  Oh, Jesus Christ.

• 26:26Speaker 01

  I was down there with some very experienced divers as well. We dived and we swam with them. On the dive, when we went down about 40 feet, what was nuts is they immediately knew that I was the weakest link. They immediately knew that I, I was kind of out of my depth when it came to diving. And they all just started swimming towards me like that. And they're just going, Ross, Ross, I'm not saying square up to it, but please stop breathing so heavy and acting like prey. So in that moment, it was just strange how, we had a conversation, but it was obviously non-verbal and across species. And it was looking at me, came straight up to me. I sort of tried, not, again, I'm not saying I squared up to it, but kind of was like, can I help you? And then it just went, all right, you're okay.

• 27:06Speaker 02

  Right, you didn't panic.

• 27:08Speaker 01

  No.

• 27:08Speaker 02

  And if you panicked, that might have been the end.

• 27:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, but just the, the way that they just, like I said, described that ampullar lorenzini, that they are just looking at me. There is this, it's a, it's apex predator with just like thousands of years and it's downloading data on me. And it just knew, 10 of us down there, and it knew that I was the weakest link.

• 27:26Speaker 02

  Jeez.

• 27:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:27Speaker 02

  Well, it's probably so obvious, right? Those other guys are so comfortable in the water, they've done it a million times, probably have a very low heart rate down there. It's a novel experience for you and there's sharks.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  Exactly that.

• 27:39Speaker 02

  My good friend, Adam Green Tree, one of his buddies back home in Australia, got his head bit off by a shark. He was, he was spearfishing and he came out of a thing, like, like a crevice or something in the reef. And a shark just took his head off.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  Didn't even see it coming, just.

• 27:56Speaker 02

  Didn't even see it coming. Just popped out and the shark saw something that looked like food that was coming out of the reef. Because they're, you know, they're, they're in the reefs looking for all sorts of whatever they eat. Whatever fish fuck up and, you know, or in the wrong place at the wrong time. They're so damn scary.

• 28:13Speaker 01

  Because they're ambush predators as well.

• 28:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  The tiger sharks off Bahamas, similarly.

• 28:17Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 28:18Speaker 01

  Swimming with them, and so often, it's just enough to look at them. As long as they can see your eyes, they go, okay, you've seen me. But the amount of times, sometimes when we were down there and they're like, Ross, have your head on a swivel. Because they were just coming up behind me and had I have not turned around, 100% I wouldn't be speaking to you now.

• 28:32Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 28:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:34Speaker 02

  Dude, in Hawaii, they're a real problem, man. They're a real problem for the surfers. You know, whenever you hear about someone getting got, it's a tiger shark. There's a crazy video we played on here once of this guy, he's, he's in a kayak and he's out in the middle of the ocean fishing. And a tiger shark just slams into his kayak and you see its mouth wide open, this big fucking head and it knocks the kayak sideways. It's terrifying. And he's screaming, tiger shark, tiger shark. Just the.

• 29:04Speaker 01

  Here it is, watch this, watch this, watch this.

• 29:06Speaker 02

  Speed of them. Watch this.

• 29:07Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 29:08Speaker 02

  Bro, fuck that. Fuck all that.

• 29:12Speaker 01

  That, that was a tiger, was it?

• 29:13Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 29:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:14Speaker 02

  Fuck all that. Look at this thing. Launch up, imagine if he was in an inflatable. If he was in an inflatable, that's a wrap. You just got your shit popped by a tiger and now you're floating a mile offshore, whatever the fuck is.

• 29:30Speaker 01

  It's the same like bull sharks as well, though. Bull sharks are just angry.

• 29:34Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  Experts, like friends of mine, have just said like they will just come over to you. With a white shark, they're curious, their taste buds are in their throats, so they'll come over, nip you, and they're just like, oh, sorry, I didn't realise you weren't a seal. The only problem is you're bleeding out. Whereas a bull shark, they'll just be like, I'm just in a bad mood. I'm just gonna come over and just... Yeah, exactly.

• 29:52Speaker 02

  I talked to this dude in Florida, he said he will not spearfish anymore. He said, they live in central, like, central Florida? He said, when you're off the reefs, he said, it's so fucking dangerous. He's like, the bull sharks are all over the place now.

• 30:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:05Speaker 02

  Because everybody's like, sharks are amazing. Stop the shark fin soup. Fucking serve it up, okay? Serve up monster dick soup. It should be everywhere. What the fuck are you talking about? You wanna eat beautiful things like cows that are sweet and kind? You wanna eat veal, but you won't eat monsters? You should be eating monsters. Monsters should be on every menu. If you could get fucking veal scallopini at an Italian restaurant, you should be able to get monster dick soup. They should sell that shit everywhere. They should become our food. Fuck them. Fuck sharks.

• 30:40Speaker 01

  But further to that point, I would say that then I was completely out of my doubt. I've never felt more vulnerable in that moment. The only other time I felt vulnerable was, I broke the record for the world's longest non-stop river swim. So it was five hundred and ten kilometres, sixty hours, all the way down the Yukon River. We hit these, the five finger rapids at one point. I basically kind of just got thrown against rocks, cut up pretty bad.

• 31:02Speaker 02

  So where does this start? In the Yukon?

• 31:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, yes, it was at Whitehorst to Dawson. I hope I've got that the right way around, yeah.

• 31:08Speaker 02

  So are you in B C? Like, where are you in?

• 31:11Speaker 01

  In Yukon.

• 31:12Speaker 02

  It's Alaska, right?

• 31:13Speaker 01

  No, no, no, Canada.

• 31:15Speaker 02

  Canada.

• 31:15Speaker 01

  But it goes to Alaska, yeah, yeah. If you continue with the Yukon River, it will eventually go to Alaska.

• 31:20Speaker 02

  So does it come down, what part of Canada does it come through?

• 31:23Speaker 01

  Oh, that's a good question.

• 31:24Speaker 02

  So it's cold as fuck, though, is my point.

• 31:25Speaker 01

  It's freezing, yeah.

• 31:26Speaker 02

  And what time are you going there?

• 31:28Speaker 01

  We went like ju-

• 31:28Speaker 02

  Oh, here it goes.

• 31:29Speaker 01

  Oh, amazing, yeah. We went July.

• 31:31Speaker 02

  So the Northwest Territories, that's what they call it, right?

• 31:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:34Speaker 02

  Is that what they call it?

• 31:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, and we just, it was, it's just the wild, wild west out there. And I, we took off, like I said, we started. Basically, what was so, so strange is for the first twenty-four hours, didn't see much in the way of wildlife. I got thrown against these whitewater rapids, got hit on the rocks, and that's why the back of my legs are still cut up now. And then from that, the rules are, no one can touch you, you can't touch the boat. So I'm like, guys, I can't stop. So I just pull my leg out of the water like this. And as I do, blood is just dripping out the end of my wetsuit. Literally like clockwork, as soon as that happened, bears, wolves, everything. I said, what's happening? And they said, Ross, they can smell the blood. You're like an ice cream van. You're just advertising yourself to all the wildlife now in the Yukon.

• 32:17Speaker 02

  Really?

• 32:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, again, now the black bears, fine, as you know, they're skittish. And it was so, for me, strange Englishman, first time dealing with bears, the black bears were looking just like, what are you? I don't know, a bit skittish. The brown bears, nah.

• 32:31Speaker 02

  They look at you very different. They look right through you.

• 32:35Speaker 01

  So different. They're just almost like sitting there, just kind of looking. And we had, like I said, a boat full of people, we had protection on there and stuff, but it just didn't care. It was, it was, I was so aware.

• 32:45Speaker 02

  How big was the brown bear?

• 32:47Speaker 01

  I would have no, as an Englishman who has no experience that, I've done it, just scarily big for me. Yeah, it was big, yeah. And I just carried on swimming. It was interesting how, it was almost like, it was looking going, you're not a salmon, but you're not a bear. I don't, I wonder if you're hungry. And I just, I carry on. So I turned to the guys, I said, guys, am I okay? Am I safe? Shall I keep swimming? Thankfully, one of the team turned around. It wasn't even a gun, it was like a cannon. And they said, Ross, don't worry, if it gets too close to you, it'll end up in my freezer. I was like, right, that's what I wanted to hear. We just carried on.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know.

• 33:19Speaker 02

  You know, statistically, you're more likely to get killed by a black bear.

• 33:24Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 33:25Speaker 02

  Well, no, that's not correct. Statistically, when a black bear attacks you, it's more likely in predation. Whereas when a brown bear attacks you, it's more likely surprised and it's defending itself. Or it's a mother with her cubs, which is the most interesting.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  That's interesting.

• 33:42Speaker 02

  Just like in real life. You fuck with a lady's kids, like, you fuck with, if you fuck with a grizzly bear and you come near its kids, they are terrifying. They run at you full clip. Most of the times the dudes get attacked and killed, that's where you fucked up. You run into a seven hundred pound mama with her babies and a jaw that could just crush your head like a candy bar. Like, fuck you. And you can't run away from her, and you can't climb up a tree, you can't do shit. And you just zigged when you should have zagged, and you got too close to her kids, and she doesn't want to take any chances, so you just became food.

• 34:21Speaker 01

  Hmm, yeah. What was, what was kind of strange, that's kind of, it was so weird going from the Yukon, and then a year later, we did the Iceland swim. And there were some of these old, sort of modern day Viking chiefs, who basically were explaining about the concept of a berserker as well. Berserker obviously just meaning bear shirt. Saying that these berserkers, these ancient Nordic warriors, would so often just try to embody the spirit of the animal. And there was even the Ulfhafna, which are-

• 34:46Speaker 02

  It's called bear shirts? That's what berserker means?

• 34:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, bear pelt, bear shirt, basically.

• 34:51Speaker 02

  That's what berserker means. Wow, you learn something new every day, Jamie.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  So they would embody, literally, the spirit of the animal. Like I said, there was almost, from berserkers as well, there were almost like subcategories as well. So there were the, I hope I'm pronouncing it right, Ulfhafna, which were the wolf warriors, and they were Odin's chosen warriors. There, there's stories of them just running into battle, no armour, basically naked, painted, biting down onto their shields as well and howling into the wind.

• 35:18Speaker 02

  You know, they were also doing mushrooms.

• 35:20Speaker 01

  I know, right? Yeah.

• 35:21Speaker 02

  That was, that was one of the things about those fellows. Berserker comes from the Old Norse berserker, most likely meaning bear shirt, a warrior wearing a bearskin. Exact etymology is disputed, and alternative interpretation is bear shirt, referring to fighting without armour. Huh. In plain English, it means a frenzied warrior. But I guess you have to be a pretty frenzied warrior to kill a fucking bear back then. You know, there was no rifle, son. You had to do it in an intimate fashion.

• 35:48Speaker 01

  Agree.

• 35:49Speaker 02

  If you're gonna kill a brown bear, you're gonna kill, especially a male, the ones in... If you get to anywhere where the salmon live, they get gigantic. Which brought me to this terrible idea that I had, that I really shouldn't put out there in the universe. But if you wanted to have like the ultimate, really fucking dangerous jackass stunt, you would put these guys in salmon suits.

• 36:11Speaker 01

  Oh, that's a terrible idea.

• 36:12Speaker 02

  And make them swim.

• 36:14Speaker 01

  Oh, my god.

• 36:15Speaker 02

  Through, when those bears are like catching those salmon that are going up the waterfall, in those rivers where there's like nine, ten of them.

• 36:22Speaker 01

  I would watch it.

• 36:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. Put the jackass guys, I shouldn't have said it, I shouldn't have said it. Because someone's gonna take, I could see Steveo calling his fucking costume designer right now.

• 36:31Speaker 01

  It's so true. But it was so interesting as well, because again, swimming around Iceland, you hear stories of berserkers. You know the famous one of Stamford Bridge?

• 36:38Speaker 02

  No.

• 36:38Speaker 01

  Oh, this was an amazing story. Ten sixty-six, I believe, when the Norwegians were invading England. Stamford Bridge, basically, the Norwegians were retreating. And as they were, there was just this one lone berserker who just stood on the bridge with a massive axe and was just taking down, just soldier after soldier. They just wave after wave and took them down. Eventually, it was somebody who actually went under the bridge and managed to stab him from underneath. But it was known as the Berserker of Stamford Bridge.

• 37:04Speaker 02

  Stab him from under the bridge? That's how they got him?

• 37:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, eventually, but he was just with his axe.

• 37:08Speaker 02

  Well, if you see like those guys in Iceland that win those strongman competitions, just imagine one of those guys with a battle axe. You know, imagine like the mountain from Game of Thrones with a giant wood and steel, wood and iron, fucking huge shield in front of him, and an enormous battle axe that you couldn't even pick up, and he's just hacking through people. And everyone's watching their friends die, so they're all in a panic, and he's covered in blood, and he's four hundred pounds.

• 37:34Speaker 01

  It's so true. And I think even as well, I mean, I'm a huge fan of Gunnar Nelson as well. You know, you look at the history of just Icelandic athletes, warriors, and it's nuts.

• 37:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. Dude, Gunnar beat Jeff Monson in an absolute contest in Abu Dhabi. When Gunnar, Gunnar fought in the UFC, I only think he's fought as a welterweight, correct? I think he's only fought at one seventy. Jeff Monson's like two fifty, do you know who Jeff Monson is?

• 38:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course.

• 38:03Speaker 02

  Okay. He's a muscle. He's like, he's just muscle. His whole fucking body, like, his shoulders start at the top of his head. He's fucking enormous. And Monson and the him, they went into an absolute, which is there's no weight classes in grappling, they still allow that. And he beat him, which is fucking insane.

• 38:24Speaker 01

  That is crazy. But it traces back to their culture as well. This is one thing that I loved when swimming around Iceland, that for instance, you know the story of Odin and Ragnarok?

• 38:32Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 38:33Speaker 01

  At the end, where, spoiler alert for those listening, Odin knew he was gonna die in Ragnarok, the Norse apocalypse, but ran in anyway. Spoiler alert, he got eaten by a giant wolf. But this is what I loved, that the Icelandic and Nordic folklore is like, look, you can't control fate. Everybody believed that you were destined, that's already written for you. But it's how you can control your attitude towards it. And I think that's the thing that I've certainly found from Icelandic culture, that it doesn't matter if you are Gunnar Nelson going up against two hundred and fifty pound monster, you will just run into battle anyway.

• 39:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:02Speaker 01

  You know, that is your fate, but it's choosing your attitude towards it.

• 39:44Speaker 03

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• 40:03Speaker 02

  This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. If you're thinking about building a website, you should try Squarespace. I know because I use it. That's right, joe rogan.com is powered by Squarespace. It has all the features that you need to create a standout website, like an AI-enhanced website builder, SEO optimization tools, and seamless checkouts with mobile pay links. Head to Squarespace.com/rogan for a free trial, and when you are ready to launch, use the offer code ROGAN to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Yeah, well, that's very attractive to most people, to most men. They wish they could be like that.

• 40:47Speaker 01

  It's true.

• 40:48Speaker 02

  That's why, I mean, how many goddamn Viking shows have there been? There's so many Viking shows and Viking movies. Have you seen The Northmen, that movie?

• 40:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, amazing. Yeah, and quite accurate, apparently, as well.

• 41:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, I bet it's accurate. Well, except for the supernatural shit. But again, mushrooms. These guys are high as fuck all the time on psilocybin. Who knows what they were saying? And they, you know, they, that's what's interesting is because like people assume that mushrooms make you peaceful. That's why the whole thing's so confusing. Because they really, for most people, they make you like more connected to everyone around you. Possibly, but it's unproven. The idea that Berserkers ate mushrooms before battles, a popular theory, not an established historical fact. There's no solid archaeological or textual evidence demonstrating drug use. Okay, so what is the, what is the, oh, it's Ammonita muscaria. But I've heard it also be psilocybin. I've heard that being proposed.

• 41:43Speaker 02

  You know, it's in that Viking show, I think. Can you put that back up, please? I think in the Viking show, they, they talk about us, or it looks like they're eating psilocybin. It doesn't look like Ammonita muscaria. Ammonita muscaria is like really obvious. It's a bright red with white dots on it. It looks like Santa Claus. The red one with the white spots, its effects don't nearly explain the battle fury, it can cause delirium, twitching, drowsiness, while violent aggression isn't typical. Yeah, even the delirium, twitching, and drowsiness, the problem with this explanation is it's not really known what Ammonita muscaria does. It's not like a, it's not a normal psychedelic, and it also doesn't seem to be as effective as it was at one point in time.

• 42:27Speaker 02

  So the theory is like, Terrence McKenna's theory was that it's, it's very variable, like a lot of things are, like peppers are. Very variable to, in genetics, region, and maybe even seasonally, that you had to like get these mushrooms from a very specific area. It's like, like you want Cuban cigars, there's like some mushrooms in a very specific area that contained a much more potent version of whatever they do to you. You know, but it's unclear. The Ammonita muscaria is unclear. Like psilocybin's very clear. Like, no one eats that and goes, "Oh, I don't see it." Like, you eat the psilocybin, but Ammonita muscaria, it varies a lot. I've heard people having insane experiences on it, and I myself tried it, and it was

• 43:12Speaker 02

  almost nothing. Very little. It made you feel weird.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  But you're so right as well, that mixed with, certainly being out in Iceland, when you hear stories of elves, trolls, you know, and then when you're out there, like I said, I started the swim, I had a blot ceremony. Basically just means that they blessed my journey as I swam around Iceland. And at the start, they were talking about, you know, the different realms of Iceland as well. Do you know the story about the, the different guardians of Iceland?

• 43:35Speaker 02

  What are the different guardians?

• 43:36Speaker 01

  So basically, the story goes that, back in the day, there was a foreign king who wanted to invade Iceland. So he sent this sorcerer disguised as a whale to see where they could attack from. Went over to the west coast, there was a huge bull that is a representative of strength and power, said, "You can't attack there." Went around to the north coast, over the north coast, huge eagle that represents vision, can see for miles, it was like, "Right, you can't attack there." East coast, dragon, realm of the dragon. Basically dragons love fast-flowing water, so there's loads of waterfalls, the East Icelandic current guns down there. And then on the south coast, there was a massive giant as well. Upon hearing this at the start during the blot ceremony, I was like, "Oh, okay, that's a cool story." You get around the top of Iceland, and all of a sudden, birds are just coming down, dive bombing me.

• 44:20Speaker 01

  Like, you get over to the east coast, and you see some of the caves and the waterfalls. And I'm like, "Oh, for sure, if you were on mushrooms, I can 100% believe this." Yeah, it's amazing. And even now as well, if you're in Iceland and you see a road that is just like inexplicably curved and goes around, I'm like, "What's happening there? That road makes no sense. It should just be going straight." And with a completely straight face, a lot of locals will say, "That's going through the elves' sacred land. We had to build around it." And I'll say, "What do you mean?" And they said, "We were trying to build a road, and then inexplicably, the machines broke down, the bulldozer broke down, we got some moor in." So there's a lot of people out there who still believe in that. And I'm like, "Yeah, on mushrooms, I couldn't believe it."

• 45:00Speaker 02

  Well, think about, do you know the popular theory? There's a popular theory that consciousness is rendered, or rather, reality is rendered by consciousness. And that consciousness renders reality much like a computer and a 3D game engine renders a game. So like, if you're playing a game, like say if you're playing Halo, it doesn't have to, it doesn't have to render all these maps that you're not in. It's only rendering the map that you're in.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 45:31Speaker 02

  Right? So as you go into the new maps, then it starts to render it. So there's legitimate physicists that are entertaining the possibility that reality is not concrete, and that reality is actually rendered by consciousness. And here's my thought. I don't know if this is accurate, I don't know if they're right, I don't know if they're wrong. It's weird and it makes sense, but reality doesn't make sense, neither does the fact that the universe is infinite. So let's put all that aside, and God made us all in His image. Great. Let's put that aside, and just stop and think about what is real, what is consciousness capable of rendering when it has access to science?

• 46:12Speaker 02

  It has access to all these different university courses you could take on biology and evolution and the nature of the world, and what causes the tide, and what makes thunderstorms happen, and all these different things that we know now. Now imagine if those things didn't exist, and all you have is just super, hyper-focused on nature primitive people who have gods as an explanation for everything, and they're on mushrooms! Like, if, if consciousness really does render reality, then, well, then the elves are real. Right? Because then, because if you've done enough mushrooms, you have encountered an entity.

• 46:57Speaker 02

  You've encountered something that doesn't seem like you're making it up. It seems like it's there all the time, but you don't have access to it. And then all of a sudden, you're in front of it. And if you're in a world where there's no explanations for anything, because no one knows how to read, okay? You met, you have a bunch of fucking weird grunts for your language, you have extra consonants and shit in all your words, like, this is, and they're warrior people, and you're on mushrooms, and you're respecting the elf land, so much so, you move your road around?

• 47:28Speaker 01

  100%.

• 47:29Speaker 02

  That sounds better than today!

• 47:32Speaker 01

  I agree, I agree. I love what you said there as well, because I remember at the start of my swim, I did a training swim, I'm toweling down afterwards, getting out of my wetsuit, and this like old, old guy, this old fisherman just comes out of nowhere. First thing he says to me, under the northern lights, I'm looking up, they're amazing, they've just illuminated the entire sky, I'm like, "Wow, looking up." And he just comes over and just whispers in my ear, and he just said, "They're probably deciding if you live or die." And I went, "Oh."

• 47:58Speaker 02

  "Excuse me." "Oh, boy." "This asshole keeps swimming for 60 hours at a time. He wants to die. They probably saw right through you." "This guy's crazy."

• 48:11Speaker 01

  I said, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry. What did you say? He goes, "They're probably deciding if you live or die." I said, "Please, you're gonna have to explain." He said that we believe that in an ancient Nordic folklore, that basically the northern lights are the Valkyries, Odin's female warriors, and that is their shimmering shields and their swords as they're riding through the sky, looking down at the fallen to see who makes it back to Valhalla to dine with Odin. And I was, again, Joe, at the time, I was like, "Oh, that's a bit off-key."

• 48:35Speaker 02

  That's a bit off-key! What a funny way he was describing it.

• 48:43Speaker 01

  112 days later, we swim, obviously through the, through the summer, so there's less chance to see the northern lights because you get 24 hours of daylight. And then right at the very end, on the very, very, very last swim, northern lights come up again. It was weird, and I'm on my back, swimming, just like, "Look, as the Valkyries, if Odin is listening, thank you so much."

• 49:05Speaker 02

  Well, if, again, if you lived back then, you would think that your journey is complete. And so at the end of the video game, you get to see some cool montage of scenes and beautiful sights, and, I mean, that's what happens in a movie.

• 49:17Speaker 01

  100%.

• 49:18Speaker 02

  Like, this is the end of the movie.

• 49:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, you would.

• 49:20Speaker 02

  You did it. That's what's weird about reality. Like, this idea that consciousness is rendering reality. Again, I really don't understand it. I don't know if it's, I don't even know if it makes sense. Oh, yeah. In Iceland, respect the elves or else. Yeah, I'm respecting the fuck out of them elves. Okay?

• 49:37Speaker 04

  This rock, they won't move.

• 49:38Speaker 02

  I'm not touching that rock.

• 49:40Speaker 04

  The elves don't wanna move.

• 49:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think they're real, dude.

• 49:43Speaker 01

  A hundred percent.

• 49:44Speaker 02

  I think they're real. I think you just can't see them normally.

• 49:47Speaker 04

  Uh, it said news crews tried to film the rock and every time they tried to film it, like, it wouldn't record.

• 49:54Speaker 02

  Good.

• 49:54Speaker 04

  Something like that.

• 49:54Speaker 02

  Good. Fuck you. Fuck you. Fake news. Fake news. Don't film the rock. Yeah, the real news is there's fucking elves are real. They moved this, they moved the road.

• 50:05Speaker 01

  No, true.

• 50:06Speaker 02

  Even TV crews say their cameras failed to record anything when pointed at the rock. I bet I go over there, record the shit out of it with my iPhone. Fuck you.

• 50:13Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 50:14Speaker 02

  How is there a picture of it? Fuck off. You got a guy working for you that's an asshole, doesn't know how to use the, he's probably got his tongue bit by a cobra two days ago. The guy's tripping balls. Fuck off.

• 50:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, they're not, that, that might have been a different rock.

• 50:26Speaker 02

  It's just fun. It's look fun. Like whoever the guy was saying, they're deciding whether you live or die. He's having fun.

• 50:32Speaker 01

  Aw.

• 50:32Speaker 02

  It's a good time. Who is that guy?

• 50:34Speaker 01

  He was just an old fisherman.

• 50:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, that old fisherman was fucking with this cocky, jacked, British guy. He's looking at you like, fuck you and your six pack. The elves are gonna kill you.

• 50:43Speaker 01

  He could have been Odin. You know Odin.

• 50:44Speaker 02

  He's fucking with you. That guy was fucking with you. One hundred percent.

• 50:48Speaker 01

  Odin describes, he disguises himself as an old man.

• 50:50Speaker 02

  Or he's an asshole. He's an old fisherman. He's fucking drunk every night. He's tired of life. He sees this beautiful, young, Englishman with a fucking manly beard, a six pack, just looking jacked, ready to swim for days. He's like, fuck you. The elves are gonna kill you. He wants you to be nervous. He's like, this fucking dork. Fuck him.

• 51:11Speaker 01

  Eighty percent.

• 51:11Speaker 04

  In a survey, eighty, over eighty percent of the respondents refused to deny the existence of elves.

• 51:16Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 51:16Speaker 04

  And eight percent were certain they existed.

• 51:18Speaker 02

  Well, those guys are dangerous. The eight percent are certain, those are dangerous people. Those are religious fanatics. Put them back up, please. Those guys, they can't be trusted. How the fuck do you know? It's all about respect for nature, which is something Icelanders know is very much alive. I agree with that. Said Gunnul. What a, what an Iceland name. Guy's name is Gunnul. But when your house can be destroyed by an earthquake, when you could be blown over by the wind, when boiling water from your taps tells you there's lava not far beneath your feet, then you don't mess with nature. Holy shit. They get boiling water from their taps sometimes?

• 51:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:54Speaker 02

  What the fuck, man?

• 51:55Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 51:56Speaker 02

  Can you imagine going to sleep, you know that there's so much lava underneath your house that water is boiling coming out of your tap? You're like, good night.

• 52:07Speaker 01

  No deal.

• 52:08Speaker 02

  I wonder what's on Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. You fucking sit there staring at Kim Kardashian and...

• 52:16Speaker 01

  No way.

• 52:17Speaker 02

  Caitlyn Jenner is on TV. Oh, they're all together again. You want this fucking lava under your feet?

• 52:23Speaker 01

  But that's Icelandic people. They're just hard as nails. I said this, it's like, it's just a country that's trying to kill you. When, when we were there, actually, at the very end, so I, I, basically, I made it back by three days for the birth of my first child.

• 52:36Speaker 02

  Congratulations.

• 52:37Speaker 01

  Thank you so much.

• 52:38Speaker 02

  That's awesome.

• 52:38Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 52:39Speaker 02

  That's a life changer, huh?

• 52:40Speaker 01

  It was amazing. Yeah, it was, but, but at the end, for instance, so, so my girlfriend, she's amazing. We've been together thirteen years. And the, the, basically, the University of Iceland said, look, if you can collect DNA samples, environmental DNA samples around the coast of Iceland, we can track biodiversity in a level of detail we've never seen before. So we had them on board, we had sponsors on board, we had a boat on board. And then we found out we were pregnant. So I was like, oh. So, you know, I sort of say...

• 53:02Speaker 02

  In America, we frown upon that we are pregnant.

• 53:06Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 53:06Speaker 02

  We frown upon that.

• 53:07Speaker 01

  She's pregnant?

• 53:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, she's pregnant.

• 53:08Speaker 01

  I'm pregnant.

• 53:08Speaker 02

  You're definitely not pregnant. You're definitely not pregnant. She's pregnant. And when I say in America, I mean me. I frown upon that kind of talk.

• 53:18Speaker 01

  She's pregnant.

• 53:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:19Speaker 01

  She, uh, she's amazing. She just said, look, you know, go, but you need to make it back. So we had that hard deadline.

• 53:25Speaker 02

  That's a good thing to say. You need to live. You need to survive.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  The Valkyries.

• 53:30Speaker 02

  You're about to have a baby. Don't swim for sixty days, you fucking asshole.

• 53:33Speaker 01

  Oh, my god.

• 53:34Speaker 02

  You have responsibilities.

• 53:34Speaker 01

  Oh, I know. But I think, and I've heard you talk about, you know, fatherhood and stuff, it, it invoked something in me, a level of motivation that I've never experienced before. It was just at the end, so we got caught in, uh, Hurricane Erin was coming through the Atlantic. So that was over the east coast. We had a hundred miles to finish. And in Grindavik, there was a volcano going off that had poisonous gas. We couldn't get too close to that as well. Inhale it, you're dead. And then here, there was one of Europe's largest glaciers that just sent shards of ice as big as this table. And at night, you just couldn't see it. You're just hitting them.

• 54:04Speaker 02

  Oh, my god.

• 54:05Speaker 01

  The team was like, look, Ross, I'm so sorry. We, we, we're gonna be here for two weeks. And I was like, no, no, no, I'm, I'm so sorry. I need, I need to get back, you know? And it was that, that form of motivation at the end, just knowing you had that hard deadline.

• 54:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:17Speaker 01

  That I just, I, jellyfish coming off my face, tongue falling off from saltwater exposure. It didn't matter. I was like, I'm not not being back for the birth of my son. And I made it back, like I said, by three days.

• 54:28Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 54:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, it got, but it got nuts.

• 54:30Speaker 02

  Well, it's very, it's a very primal feeling. It, it ignites something in you that does not exist in people that don't have children. I don't think. I don't think. I mean, I, I am very careful about this. I do not think you have to have children. I don't like to shame people that don't wanna have kids. I don't like shaming people, people who never had kids. I don't think it's, I think you can be a wonderful person and contribute to the world without children. But I could just say for me, it changed who I am. It changed, it changed me in a, in a very profound way. And I always bring up this Dave Chappelle quote, so I apologize to people who've heard it before. But he said something very profound once in the parking lot of the Comedy Store. He said, not only did having children change the amount of love that I have, he goes, it changed my capacity for love.

• 55:14Speaker 01

  I love that.

• 55:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it did that for me. And it also did for me this other very profound thing, where it, it made me stop looking at people as a static thing. Uh, when I met, if I met a guy and he's forty and he's an asshole, I'm like, fuck that guy's a fucking asshole. I don't think that way anymore. Now, I mean, sometimes I do, if I'm short tempered, if I'm in a bad mood, if I'm top, you know, I'm in a rush, under stress. I can have slips. I'm not perfect at this. But when I'm at peace, I look at that guy as a baby. That's a baby. That's someone's little boy, and shit didn't go well for him. There was a series of either bad decisions or bad experiences or bad parenting or bad judgment or bad luck.

• 55:58Speaker 02

  And now here he is, just a fucking mess. And that's why I have a hard time seeing homeless people. It, it, it genuinely bothers me. I never see homeless people and I'm, I go, fuck that guy. I'll go fuck that guy if they're like getting close to my kids and they're being aggressive and they're schizophrenic. But most of the time, I think, that's, that was somebody's baby. That's somebody's baby.

• 56:18Speaker 01

  I'm exactly the same. It completely...

• 56:19Speaker 02

  It changes you.

• 56:20Speaker 01

  It changes your, like, biochemistry. I was talking to Huberman about this, and I really, hormonally, I felt, I was, I was always a bit selfish, a bit single minded in my swims and stuff. As soon as he arrived, I was like, that, that's it. Everything changes. It was crazy. I, I, I think as well, it was, it was strange for me because I, I lost my dad as well four years ago and then I was becoming a dad myself. So the Iceland swim sort of existed in this strange world between the two. Um, and that was like really sort of big for me. I, I even said, you know, in my new book, I talk about how it's, it's kind of this idea that, um, the swim was almost a tribute to everything that my dad had taught me, but equally a letter to my future son. You know, and I hope that they look at that and go, okay, yeah, all the values and everything that I was taught.

• 57:01Speaker 02

  Well, just living the way you live, just by example, would be an insane role model for your kid. I mean, you're a very unusual person. Your, your will is very odd. You know, the, your, the ability to do those kind of things, I respect greatly. I don't wanna do it. I think it's retarded, but I respect it.

• 57:19Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 57:20Speaker 02

  But I respect it greatly. You know, I'm good friends with Cameron Haynes, and, you know, he runs a lot of these, like, really insane two hundred, three hundred mile races. And, uh, I respect it. I don't think it's good for you, but I get what he's doing. He's trying to find out where his breaking point is, you know? He's trying to push himself to his breaking point.

• 57:38Speaker 01

  That is exactly it.

• 57:39Speaker 02

  And I admire that greatly, because that is a noble quest. Whether or not you think it's smart, I don't, I don't think it's smart, but, but I don't wanna do it, but it is a noble quest. It is a, uh, an absolutely noble quest, and he is different than me. We are all different. And everyone has this thing in their head that they need to sort out. And sometimes the way you sort it out is by doing something that's fucking insanely hard to find out who you really are.

• 58:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's...

• 58:06Speaker 02

  And I think, I like to do it a little bit every day. That's my method. My method is do a little bit every day. When I say a little bit, like a couple hours. That's what I like. Couple hours of torture every day, find out who I am. And when I take a few days off, I get nervous, I get confused. Who am I? I don't know. I don't know if I could do this anymore. You know what I mean? You know those feelings?

• 58:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:25Speaker 02

  I'm sure you even get those. There's many times if you, if you take a few weeks off working out

• 58:29Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 58:30Speaker 02

  and you start working out again, you're like, oh my god, am I really gonna put myself through this again?

• 58:33Speaker 01

  It's so true.

• 58:34Speaker 02

  Right? Am I really gonna go swim for six days again? What the fuck is wrong with me? You know?

• 58:39Speaker 01

  It's so true. But I was chatting to Huberman about this, because I, I was just, I'm so aware that my dopamine system probably works a little bit differently. You know, in that if someone says, oh, let's go do a, you know, twenty-four hour swim, I go, meh. And then they go, oh, three days, past bears. I'm like, okay, hold my beer. I'm in. And I think that's what's so weird, but, but I know you and Huberman spoke about with your anterior mid-singulate cortex. And that's the only way that I can actually, for me, it was so interesting chatting to, to him, because in my head, when your tongue is falling off or, or, you know, you're just chafing cellulitis, I, I think of it like weighing scales. And you kind of got grit or quit, pain and purpose. And at any point, the anterior mid-singulate cortex, that part of your brain is just weighing them up.

• 59:21Speaker 01

  And for me, you just need, as much pain as it is, you just need to outweigh it with enough, enough purpose.

• 59:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:28Speaker 01

  If you do that, you'll continue. If not... And I think it's so interesting, I mean, I love the UFC. There are certain fighters who, if you did a scan, 100% their anterior mid-singular cortex would just be like this.

• 59:39Speaker 02

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• 1:00:22Speaker 02

  The Visible plan starts at just $25 a month. Or get the premium Visible Plus Pro Plan and save $10 on your first month with promo code ROGEN. Terms apply. See visible.com for plan, features, and network management details. I was gonna bring this up earlier. One of the fighters got pulled from a car a few years back. I can't remember when, but it was because of exactly what you were talking about, like creatine levels in his blood. And I was like, what? I was confused at the time. I didn't know like what that meant. I was like, why creatine? What does that mean? Took too much creatine? Like, no, his body's so broken down from training, it's not safe for him to fight. Like, how's that possible? Like, how does somebody show up at the actual fight day, blown out?

• 1:01:06Speaker 02

  Junior Dos Santos, fighting is worth the health risk because it's everything to me. Was it Junior? He got pulled from a fight?

• 1:01:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I think, there you go, rhabdomyolysis breaking down. Yeah.

• 1:01:23Speaker 02

  Oh, but I don't think that he got pulled from the fight. I think this is just what happened to him in that fight. So that fight...

• 1:01:31Speaker 01

  So his was over 1,000 pounds.

• 1:01:32Speaker 02

  So he had two fights, well, he had three fights with Cain Velasquez. Cain Velasquez has the greatest cardio of any heavyweight that ever lived. They used to call him Cardio Cain. It was a freaky gift that he had. And it was also his understanding of management of cardio was incredible. He never threw anything full blast. Everything was like 60, 70%, but with perfect technique. And he would just never get tired. Like, never get tired. And the first fight, Junior Dos Santos caught him with a big right hand and knocked him out. It was on Fox, it was a big deal. Then they have this rematch. And the rematch, Cain's healthy. The first fight he went into with a blown out knee, he had his knee wrapped up. He fucked up his meniscus like in training. And then in the second fight, he's fully healthy and he mauls Junior Dos Santos. And it's a war.

• 1:02:17Speaker 02

  It's a five-round crazy war where it looks like they're both gonna... Well, it looks like Junior's gonna die. It looks like he's gonna die. And then he does it again in the second fight. They have a third fight, rather, second rematch. Second rematch, the same, same sort of result. Cain just mauls him. Like Cain was just... Cain was on a completely different level to everybody else when it came to cardio. Guys would get this thousand-yard stare in the second round, like, I can't do this for five rounds. I can't, I can't keep this guy off me. It's impossible. And so if he got rhabdomyolysis from that fight, I would not be surprised. Though, I bet a lot of fighters get rhabdomyolysis after the fights. Because some of those fights, they're on death's fucking door. They're on death's door.

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

  I think one of the worst, gotta be Lola McDonald, right?

• 1:03:02Speaker 02

  Oh, my god. Oh, my god. One of the craziest life-or-death fights in the history of the sport.

• 1:03:10Speaker 01

  And they stared each other down in the final round.

• 1:03:12Speaker 02

  How about they're staring each other down and blood is pouring out of both of their faces? Robbie's lip is split halfway open. The whole thing was not... The end of it, when I was interviewing him, half of his lip is like open like a slice of pie. It's fucking insane. And he's saying how he's never gonna quit. I'm gonna keep going and keep going, and I'm never gonna stop. And I was like, holy shit. This guy just got through five rounds of the most violent shit ever. Look at the two of them, just staring each other down.

• 1:03:41Speaker 01

  It was unbelievable.

• 1:03:43Speaker 02

  Like, life or death. Like, they got, they got to death's door. And Rory, when he collapsed, it was like his nose had been shattered and the pain was just overwhelmed his brain. His body shut off and he just collapsed. He couldn't take it anymore. It was crazy, dude. Yeah. When they're staring each other before the final round, like, motherfucker.

• 1:04:05Speaker 01

  Is that the worst?

• 1:04:06Speaker 02

  Look at Robbie, screaming in the crowd with his arms up.

• 1:04:09Speaker 01

  So what I think's going on there, there's a few things. I think there's like stress-induced analgesia, the way that like an injured animal will bite off its arm to get out of a trap. That must be going on. So just pain suppression, nor ephedrine, everything.

• 1:04:22Speaker 02

  There's also some fucking genetics. Robbie Law's got some caveman genes, son.

• 1:04:27Speaker 01

  Like, part in the end of all.

• 1:04:28Speaker 02

  He's got some warrior genes. That dude, that's in his DNA. I've been watching that kid fight since he was 20 years old. He's a fucking savage. Like a savage to the core. One of the greatest knockouts in the history of the sport happened when Robbie was fighting up a division. So he was fighting this guy, Melvin Manhoof. And Melvin Manhoof is a kickboxer, a very high-level kickboxer, who came out of Mike's Gym in Amsterdam. Mike's Gym in Amsterdam is legendary. Produced Bader Hary, uh, there's like a series of like wicked kickboxers came out of Mike's Gym. And Melvin Manhoof sort of epitomized that style. They were hyper-aggressive. And Melvin is built like you. Like, look at him.

• 1:05:13Speaker 02

  So Melvin, in this fight, Melvin is chewing up Robbie's legs. He keeps leg-kicking him. I mean, he's punishing his legs. Melvin was so fast and so powerful. And they get in the exchange and boom, Robbie hits him with one punch and knocks him out. If you... And he's just out cold. Like, look at they zoom in on his face. He's just, he's in the shadow realm right now. But if you go to earlier in the fight, like what Melvin was doing to him, it was a crazy comeback. Like, go earlier in the fight. Melvin is all over him. I mean, he's so dangerous and so fast. Like, Melvin was putting him in really bad spots. He kept rocking him. And when you talk about like high-level kickboxers, Melvin was elite.

• 1:05:56Speaker 02

  Like, perfect technique, ridiculous power and athleticism, and just a warrior spirit, just attack you. From the... He would come out for his fights with a dog collar on. But he would have like a spiked dog collar and be dancing, getting ready for his fights. Terrifying human being.

• 1:06:13Speaker 01

  He's scary, but I think going back to the Berserker, there's such a parallel between him and Alex Pereira. You know that idea, like with the Jaguar style?

• 1:06:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:21Speaker 01

  You know, embodying the spirit of an animal. I mean, I don't know about Melvin, I would be terrified if I was in the cage and I saw Pereira walking out.

• 1:06:28Speaker 02

  Well, do you know the, the team, the Fighting Nerds?

• 1:06:31Speaker 01

  Oh, of course.

• 1:06:32Speaker 02

  Okay. So the head dude, uh, I can't, I'm blanking on his name. But I was just watching this video about, uh, Carlos Bratess, who is one of my all-time favorites right now in, in the UFC, in the welterweight division. And one of the things they were talking about is how he has his fighters mimic animals. And he studies animals and animals fighting to the death online, and that it's all about controlling the space. Like, they gave an example of the mongoose and the cobra. And it's not that the mongoose is faster than the cobra or more deadly than the cobra, it's that mongoose is a master of controlling space. The mongoose is like fainting, like as he's coming into the cobra, he's like moving in a little bit. Yeah, Pablo. Pablo's a brilliant guy.

• 1:07:17Speaker 02

  And he's the one, I mean, they really are nerds. Like, they really do like data analytics and they study all moves that work and moves that don't work and what happens at what percentage of time. Like, he's got a very data-driven approach to MMA training, but also like super open-minded because he's like considering animal movements.

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  That's amazing.

• 1:07:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. And the things that he was talking about was mongooses and cobras. And they have this example, and it shows like these mongooses, they're essentially like juking with the cobra. They're fainting, they're trying to get the cobra to react, and they move back when the cobra reacts. And they slip, but they're, they're trying to draw this cobra in and get a sense of what the cobra's distance is.

• 1:07:56Speaker 01

  That's crazy.

• 1:07:57Speaker 02

  And all of his fighters, particularly Carlos, is a master at controlling distance. He's always pressing forward, and then when you come at him, he slides away, and he's pressing forward, and it's always, you're always in danger. You're constantly in danger. So you're always like on the defensive, and you're trying to get some offense, and it doesn't work, and then you're back on the defense. Masterful.

• 1:08:17Speaker 01

  That's fascinating.

• 1:08:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:18Speaker 01

  I think it's almost lost. It was the 17th century writer, English writer, wasn't it? Samuel Johnson, who said, "Become a beast to get rid of the pain of being a man."

• 1:08:27Speaker 02

  Ooh.

• 1:08:27Speaker 01

  And I think so often, we've lost that. Certainly for me, when swimming, in many ways, I was very much inspired by the shark. You know, when I was swimming, very much like the Berserker, the bear. And I think some of the best athletes, like I said, I love Pereira and his Jaguar style. You know, both feet on the floor, so constantly generating power. But yeah, Samuel Johnson, "Become a beast to get rid of the pain of being a man." Love that quote.

• 1:08:48Speaker 02

  That's a great quote and very applicable. Definitely, but for most people, like the, the journey, the path is just too daunting. There's the idea of it, it's just, oh, what am I gonna do? I'm gonna start out a beginner and just get humiliated all the time? Fuck that. It's just like, doesn't seem fun at all, you know? And they don't want to do it. And so then they'll dismiss it and talk about... And then it becomes toxic masculinity, which is adorable.

• 1:09:15Speaker 04

  That was adorable.

• 1:09:17Speaker 01

  I think also what I found so interesting is, again, I was chatting to Huben about this, but the different parts of the brain. So your ventral striatum, the part of the brain that's almost involved in expectation, reward, and reality. So, to use a fighting example, when things are going well for a fighter, what's happening? The ventral striatum is going, okay, I've done this and that, and I'm winning. It's prime Conor McGregor, it's prime Anderson Silva, it's modern day Ilya Topurev. You know, that everything's going well. But as soon as that goes wrong, something goes wrong, all of a sudden dopamine plummets, ventral striatum goes, okay, that behavior is now not working. And I think it's been so interesting seeing fighters, the same with it when I'm swimming, I can get caught in a counter current. There's been times where I swim

• 1:10:01Speaker 01

  and they go, Ross, you've got to swim for four hours to swim out of this massive whirlpool. I swim for four hours, head down, head down like that. My alarm goes off, I look at my watch, I go, guys, how far have we swum? And they go, Ross, you've been swimming on the same spot, you've not moved. You've just been swimming on the same spot for four hours. And I think it's interesting that it's not just losing, it's actually like the brain, the biochemistry just implodes. And I think you kind of saw that, like I said, I think-

• 1:10:27Speaker 02

  What happened in your mind when you found out you were in the same spot for four hours?

• 1:10:31Speaker 01

  I mean, it's, like I said, it's not just a loss. Understanding the neuroscience of it, basically the ventral striatum going, this isn't working, dopamine is no longer released. All of a sudden, it is just like a dark biochemical cloud. And when you understand that, you can start to try to process out of it.

• 1:10:48Speaker 02

  How'd you get out of that?

• 1:10:50Speaker 01

  I'm glad you asked. There's another part of the brain as well called the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex, and that's involved in strategy. So essentially, when you are completely losing, ventral striatum goes, this isn't working. So when I'm swimming, tongue's falling off, neck's chafing, cellulitis, ventral striatum, this is not working. And then you've got two options. Again, this is an oversimplification, but in my head, this is how I basically map it out. Anterior mid-singulate cortex, grit or quit, pain and purpose, discipline, you just do it because you said you were gonna do it. You just grit your teeth and get through it. Or dorsolateral prefrontal cortex over here, which is more strategy. And sometimes you can just completely reframe what you're doing. You can change technique and everything as well when you're swimming, but sometimes just reframing that suffering. You know, a

• 1:11:33Speaker 01

  great man said, be the hero of your own movie. And I think, looking at the hero's journey as well, I think that's so interesting where Joseph Campbell talks about the idea of just kind of the hero slaying your dragon in a most cave battling. So I think sometimes that strategy is just reframing your suffering when you're constantly losing.

• 1:11:52Speaker 02

  And how long did it take you to get out of that whirlpool?

• 1:11:56Speaker 01

  I think we were there for most of that day. Most of that day. And then with the tide, because basically over the top of Iceland, it's like a giant bay, so you get counter currents, whirlpools, and eventually with everything that's happening, you'll eventually be able to swim out of it.

• 1:12:10Speaker 02

  Eventually?

• 1:12:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, but you can.

• 1:12:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:13Speaker 02

  Jamie's dead.

• 1:12:19Speaker 02

  I'm dead too, bitch. I'm dead too, bitch. How much can you swim? Can you swim good?

• 1:12:24Speaker 04

  Yeah. I don't know, I mean, what's, what do you mean?

• 1:12:28Speaker 02

  I mean, like in a fucking whirlpool in the middle of the ocean, dog, it's 20 degrees out.

• 1:12:32Speaker 04

  I could probably handle, I don't know how strong of an under two, I've never been-

• 1:12:35Speaker 02

  I'd be dead in 15 minutes. 15 minutes, I'm underwater.

• 1:12:39Speaker 04

  In the ocean. I could probably save someone.

• 1:12:41Speaker 02

  You could save someone?

• 1:12:42Speaker 04

  Depending on the waves.

• 1:12:44Speaker 02

  You know who saved somebody? Greg Fitzsimmons. Did you ever hear that story? Didn't he tell it on the podcast?

• 1:12:49Speaker 04

  Yeah. I wouldn't go out, though. I wouldn't test myself.

• 1:12:51Speaker 02

  Some lady, he was on vacation, some lady was drowning. He jumped in the water and rescued her.

• 1:12:55Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:12:56Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, she was offshore, and I guess the riptide caught her. And Greg risked his fucking life, went out there and grabbed her and helped her.

• 1:13:06Speaker 01

  What a legend.

• 1:13:07Speaker 02

  Legend. I was like, damn, dude. I'm like, did you think at one point, because his family was there too, he was on vacation. I was like, do you think that maybe you wouldn't be able to make it back? Did you worry about that? And he's like, yeah.

• 1:13:17Speaker 01

  Because it's crazy. People don't understand, like, certainly on-

• 1:13:20Speaker 02

  Drowning people are dangerous.

• 1:13:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:22Speaker 02

  Because they'll hold on to you and you won't be able to, like, get them to relax.

• 1:13:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:26Speaker 02

  And then they won't let go of you, and then you're both drowning.

• 1:13:29Speaker 01

  Exactly. It's in Iceland, on the south coast, it's called Reynersfjord, it's considered like literally one of the most dangerous beaches in the world. And they have these sneakaways that just come from nowhere. And we were there, and I think it was a family, I think it was a little girl who lost her life, but witnessing it as well, there were so many tourists who thought it was fun to run up as close as they could, and as the waves crash over, they get a selfie, and they run. And I was like, I don't want to be like, oh, here we go.

• 1:13:53Speaker 02

  What the fuck, dude? That's like some shit right out of Lord of the Rings. Look at that. That doesn't even look real. That looks like Mordor.

• 1:14:00Speaker 01

  The sneakaways from there, they will come from nowhere. And they were just absolutely-

• 1:14:04Speaker 02

  Fuck.

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:05Speaker 02

  Fuck you.

• 1:14:05Speaker 01

  There you see the tourists there in that one.

• 1:14:07Speaker 02

  I don't go anywhere near that shit. Fuck you.

• 1:14:08Speaker 01

  Oh, there you go. Yeah, so you'd have tourists. When we were there, and I felt, I was so conflicted, because I was like, look, I don't want to be a killjoy or anything. There's people taking pictures while sitting on those rocks, and then you just saw massive waves. We left, and then an hour later, we saw helicopters overhead, we heard ambulances, and we knew the worst that happened.

• 1:14:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, you can die. You can die doing that. That is, a guy who was a WWE wrestler died a few years ago. He got caught in a rip tide, right? Is that what happened to him?

• 1:14:38Speaker 04

  That's what I was thinking it was. I was saying, like, I think that was like on Venice Beach or Santa Monica.

• 1:14:41Speaker 02

  I think you're right. I think it was in Venice. Yeah, man, it's fucking terrifying. If you don't know how to swim, the ocean is a monster, man.

• 1:14:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. Even on certain parts as well, when you get wind over tide, that's the worst. The tide's going one way, wind's going the other, and we get what's called the overfalls. And swimming over there, it was nuts. There's, the waves, they're not rolling anymore, they're detonating. That's the only way I can describe it. It's just going off around you. And when you're swimming in there as well, what's happening underneath is all the jellyfish are just getting smashed on the rocks. So as you're swimming, jellyfish tentacles are literally going up your nose, in your ear, you're inhaling them as well.

• 1:15:15Speaker 02

  Oh, great. That's gotta be good for you.

• 1:15:19Speaker 02

  Jellyfish can fuck you up, too.

• 1:15:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:15:22Speaker 02

  They'll sting the shit out of you, especially the wrong ones.

• 1:15:24Speaker 01

  The ones in Iceland are all right, but I think after you take maybe like five or six, they start attacking your lymph nodes, you start scratching under your armpits, over your groin.

• 1:15:33Speaker 02

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• 1:17:45Speaker 02

  And oh my God, it was horrible. She was in agony. It was terrible. And they keep like stuff on the beach that you pour on them because it happens so often, and people get zapped by jelly. It's not, they're not dangerous, they don't kill you, but they fucking hurt like hell.

• 1:17:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:17:58Speaker 02

  Dude, the ocean itself is just like, like, what's interesting about all those people in that photograph, that's in that video, they're watching and standing, isn't it fascinating how people are drawn to that abyss? They're drawn to the majesty of that water, just the vastness of it. There's something about that that I think is really good for people. I think it's one of the reasons why people like going to the ocean and sitting on the beach. I think there's something about that that just calms people the fuck down, because it puts you into perspective. It's like, hey bitch, look out at all that fucking water. Okay, you can't live in any of that. All right? You are so nothing. And that's why I think beach towns are so chill.

• 1:18:40Speaker 02

  Like beach towns are not like, like, why is uh downtown Manhattan so beep beep fuck you? Everybody's like hyped up. It's because they're surrounded by people created shit. If you're, you're just standing there staring at the vastness of the ocean. You're like, alright, relax. And then at nighttime, you see the stars too. You see the fucking Milky Way. And then there's the ocean like, alright, this is clearly, I'm not that important.

• 1:19:03Speaker 01

  A hundred percent.

• 1:19:04Speaker 02

  I'm barely anything.

• 1:19:05Speaker 01

  A hundred percent. And like we said with Iceland, with some mushrooms under the northern lights.

• 1:19:08Speaker 02

  Oh, especially on the last day of your swim. It's like the universe letting you know, you did it. You completed your journey. Fucking bananas, man.

• 1:19:18Speaker 01

  This is exactly it. But I love what you said there as well. I mean, certainly on the swim, it was so interesting. Sometime, I tried to swim with gratitude as much as I can. You know, swim with a smile and you're just grateful to be there because I, I, I love David Goggins and I've tried his form of motivation where he's, you know, man up, grit your teeth, get through this. But for, for me personally, after, you know, a hundred days, I can't keep calling myself a bitch. I'm just like, oh, have a day off.

• 1:19:47Speaker 02

  David is a very unique character. I don't know anybody like him and I don't recommend it. I don't recommend you becoming him. Good fucking luck. You have to have that demon inside of you like that guy does. He's a sweetheart of a guy though. I love him to death. But that dude, that fire ain't going out. He's fifty years old. That fire is not going out. He does things where people aren't watching. That's what's crazy about David. It's not all these like things where people get to see, it's not, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. He calls it being in the lab. Like every day he's doing it. Like dude, every day he's out there running twenty miles. He runs with a weight vest on. He, he gets in from there. He does weights. He does chin ups and pushups. Like it's not, it doesn't stop. It doesn't end.

• 1:20:32Speaker 02

  And then the next day it's another thing. It's another fucking insane thing and it never ends. And no one's watching. No one's watching. It's not being documented. He's, he's just doing it. And then every now and then he'll go out and run some fucking two hundred mile race and everybody's like, what the fuck, man? Like what are, and he's also got no knees. His knees are completely blown apart. He's got bone on bone on both of his fucking knees. He's had multiple operations. Where they had to actually, his bone had grown so fucked up that they had to chop his fucking leg in half and pull it down. So they could make it level. Because the, the bone, it's, it's like called, what is it called? Wolf syndrome or some shit? Where you're, they grind against each other. So your body tries to protect itself by building extra bone. And when it builds it, it fucks up the geometry of the knees.

• 1:21:17Speaker 02

  They don't work correctly. So then you're running like bone on bone with fucked up geometry and you get back pain and all kinds of. So he had his fucking knee sawed off and had shifted downward and then screwed into place. And you know what he did? He just got on a fucking bicycle and he started using a bicycle then. And so he's fucking indoor cycling all day for five, six hours.

• 1:21:40Speaker 01

  I had something similar actually. Yes, subacromial decompression with my shoulder. Which so often weightlifters will get it, but they said, we've never really seen it in a swimmer. But it was exactly the same. I needed to have the, the bone shaved down to make room again.

• 1:21:52Speaker 02

  Holy shit.

• 1:21:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, that was that left shoulder. The right's always been fine.

• 1:21:56Speaker 02

  So when they shaved down the bone, did they have to, is your cartilage okay or?

• 1:21:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, cartilage was fine. And it was, you know.

• 1:22:01Speaker 02

  It was just the bone?

• 1:22:02Speaker 01

  Keyhole, yeah, just there. Yeah, just went in, shaved down the bone and.

• 1:22:05Speaker 02

  How much bone did they shave down?

• 1:22:07Speaker 01

  A good amount, yeah.

• 1:22:08Speaker 02

  Did you get like a little cup of it to save?

• 1:22:10Speaker 01

  I should have asked, shouldn't I?

• 1:22:11Speaker 02

  Should have saved that.

• 1:22:12Speaker 01

  But I, I love what you said there as well. Cause I just think Goggins taps into something that, that so few people want to almost address. Carl Jung talked about it with your shadow self. You know, that part of your psyche that you don't want to reveal to the world. Are you aggressive, jealous, hyper competitive? Um, again, it was, it was Nietzsche, wasn't it? Whoever fights monsters should see to it that they too don't become a monster. Cause if you stare into the abyss too long, the abyss will stare back into you.

• 1:22:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:36Speaker 01

  And I think that's what Goggins does brilliantly. Or Jordan Peterson as well. You know, the, the problem isn't having a monster. It's making sure you can't put it back in the cage.

• 1:22:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:45Speaker 01

  And I think that's what Goggins does so well. And I did take the inspiration from that on certain swims as well where uh, you know, reading a few comments online, people go, he's never gonna do this swim. He's too big to be a swimmer. This is gonna fail badly.

• 1:22:57Speaker 02

  That is the weird thing about you though. Like most endurance athletes aren't that heavily muscled.

• 1:23:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:03Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? That is very odd. And I've showed pictures of you to my friends and I would like, I want to talk about people who've done crazy shit and I've detailed some of the insane things you've done, some of the insane swims. And they're like, how is he doing that when it's that jacked? I'm like, that is weird, right?

• 1:23:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think there's a few different things to unpack. So, so the first is you just need bulk. So going back to biomimicry. And we're talking about that a lot now, but I think what's so interesting is I want to become more whale-like. You know, I, I think absolutely. You look at a pool swimmer, they are poetic in the water. They're amazing. They look like dolphins and mako shark. That would be useless for me when caught in an arctic storm.

• 1:23:39Speaker 02

  You need strength.

• 1:23:40Speaker 01

  Strength and bulk. Yeah, muscle mass being thermic so I can generate heat with every single movement. Um, but equally on top of that, I think it's also really interesting that through my strength training, it's called mechanotransduction. Just basically means people think of strength training as improving the, the strength of the muscles. But it's connective tissue, ligaments and tendons that respond to that mechanical stimuli. So for me, when swimming, I need the connective tissue. My, my, the tendons in my rotator cuff need to be bulletproof. Because that's what's gonna give up. This, this swim isn't gonna stop because of my VO2 or lactic threshold. It's gonna stop because something tears.

• 1:24:15Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:24:15Speaker 01

  So that's why being like this, I'm, I'm not as fast, but I sacrifice that for being more physically robust.

• 1:24:21Speaker 02

  That makes sense.

• 1:24:22Speaker 01

  And I think finally, this is something as well, which is really interesting at the moment. So I'm a huge fan of Cam McAvoy. He's the fifty meter uh, world record holder for freestyle. And he's just rewritten the rulebook on swimming. Basically, there's a direct correlation between your one rep max on pull-ups and your swim sprint speed.

• 1:24:37Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:24:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, really, real strong correlation. So he's now basically doing one rep max with pull-ups with eighty, ninety kilos. And just speed reps as well, Joe, just ripping. And you see what he's done. He's, he's barely swimming in terms of.

• 1:24:54Speaker 02

  Ninety kilos?

• 1:24:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's an absolute savage.

• 1:24:56Speaker 02

  Isn't that like a hundred and eighty-five pounds or some shit? What is that?

• 1:25:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, it's on his Instagram recently, did it with eighty. He's, he's an absolute specimen.

• 1:25:04Speaker 02

  And how many, how many chin ups is he doing that way?

• 1:25:06Speaker 01

  I think he was doing about three. He's an absolute specimen, yeah. And what, so that's, that's swimming, that's, that's sprinting. So obviously that's, that's not endurance. But taking inspiration from that, you have what's called your strength reserve. So strength reserve just basically means if you are capable of doing a pull-up with a hundred kilos, that means your own body weight is a basically a smaller percentage of what you're capable of. Here we go.

• 1:25:30Speaker 02

  Is that him? There he goes.

• 1:25:31Speaker 01

  Uh, eighty kilos.

• 1:25:33Speaker 02

  That's insane. And what is it, Jamie? Did we figure out what that is? I'll ask my phone.

• 1:25:37Speaker 04

  It's two point two, so it's like a one seventy-six, I think.

• 1:25:39Speaker 02

  What is eighty kilograms in pounds?

• 1:25:43Speaker 01

  But look how strict and how casual.

• 1:25:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, one seventy-six. That's crazy.

• 1:25:49Speaker 01

  He's amazing. And he's completely rewritten the rulebooks when it comes. So it was like I said, fifty um, world record holder at the moment. Oh.

• 1:25:57Speaker 02

  That's crazy. He's doing that three sets of five with fifty kilograms. And so this is just to generate strength for the sprinting aspect of swimming.

• 1:26:06Speaker 01

  Exactly. That, you think about it. If your one rep max on pull-ups is so good, every single stroke is almost like a unilateral, a single lit limb pull down. So he's just ripping through the water like that. But what's been really interesting is traditionally, you used to just swim for miles and miles. It was almost we call it like uh, garbage yardage, that you're just swimming, swimming, swimming. He was swimming sometimes in his sets like eight hundred meters, which is my warm-up. But it was just all flat out. So he's revolutionized swimming. So that's sprinting. But what I'd taken from it, like I said, your strength reserve, basically if you're capable of a huge one rep max on pull-ups. It means that every single stroke that you take is a smaller percentage of what you're capable of.

• 1:26:46Speaker 01

  I think the best example I can think of like this is a good friend of mine, Eddie Hall, uh, worst arms man, first guy to deadlift five hundred kilos. Uh, he entered a CrossFit competition and there was a, a particular wad. It was sixty kilos. There's a brilliant video if you've seen it, Jamie, but there's, it's sixty kilos. And you see these CrossFitters, they're up to overhead and it's a clean and it's a beautiful push press. But because Eddie is so strong and he's got such a big strength reserve, he basically, as you're about to see now, just I mean, that's a front delt raise mixed with a row. Did you see what?

• 1:27:23Speaker 02

  That's crazy. If you don't know, that is so much harder to do it that way.

• 1:27:27Speaker 01

  Sixty kilos, I believe, sixty kilos. And so like I said, the CrossFitters, perfect technique. They clean it to the chest. And then they are bending their knees and they are pressing.

• 1:27:35Speaker 02

  That shit ain't even touching his chest. That's crazy.

• 1:27:38Speaker 01

  It's a front delt raise, kind of with a row.

• 1:27:41Speaker 02

  That's literally insane. If you don't know, that's literally insane.

• 1:27:45Speaker 01

  But my point here is, I mean, Eddie's an absolute specimen. But my point here is, is he doesn't train for this. This is completely, he doesn't, this isn't his thing.

• 1:27:53Speaker 02

  Clearly, cause he doesn't do that movement. If he did that movement, he wouldn't be doing it that way.

• 1:27:58Speaker 01

  But he's got an immense strength reserve. And so that's my point.

• 1:28:01Speaker 02

  Crazy dude.

• 1:28:03Speaker 01

  At the time, he broke the record.

• 1:28:06Speaker 02

  That is so insane. That's so insane that he did that that way. Now watch a regular CrossFitter do it. Can you show a regular CrossFitter do it?

• 1:28:15Speaker 02

  Regular, well you can find it, regular CrossFitters, they catch it on their chest.

• 1:28:19Speaker 01

  Is exactly it.

• 1:28:20Speaker 02

  And then they step back.

• 1:28:21Speaker 01

  As a poetic technique. And so that, that's my point. So coming back to the, the swimming, that as strong as I get when I'm strength training, it just means that every single stroke over the Arctic Circle is a smaller fraction of what I'm capable of.

• 1:28:34Speaker 02

  That makes sense. That makes sense. And then you have to be able to have that fine line between endurance and bulk.

• 1:28:40Speaker 01

  Is exactly it.

• 1:28:41Speaker 02

  So muscular endurance and, you know, but also having strength.

• 1:28:45Speaker 01

  Is exactly it. I think also what was really interesting, an MRI scan revealed, so you have slow twitch fibers that are very resistant to fatigue, they're your ultramarathon runners, then you have your fast twitch fibers that are sprint speed power. And, and what was so strange is on my MRI, they said, Ross, you have an unusual proportion of fast oxidative glycolytic fibers. So they're basically in between the two. They're able to produce a lot of force, but they're very resistant to fatigue as well.

• 1:29:08Speaker 02

  Is that cultivated?

• 1:29:10Speaker 01

  Interesting. They said, I think I had a genetic predisposition for that, but with the amount of training I've done, I've also nurtured it.

• 1:29:17Speaker 02

  Interesting. Now, how do they know that you have a genetic predisposition for it if they didn't examine you before you started all this training?

• 1:29:22Speaker 01

  It was all theory. Yeah, they said big thing.

• 1:29:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, but my question is, I wonder how much of it is adaptable. I wonder how much of what we say, oh, he has a genetic advantage. Like, are we sure? Or, or did this guy's body change because of necessity?

• 1:29:36Speaker 01

  It made intuitive sense when they said that.

• 1:29:38Speaker 02

  What would you call that? A clean press?

• 1:29:40Speaker 01

  The, oh.

• 1:29:40Speaker 02

  What Eddie Hall did?

• 1:29:41Speaker 01

  Uh, no, it's, there's a re-

• 1:29:44Speaker 04

  It's part of a workout called the Isabelle, so I just.

• 1:29:46Speaker 01

  There you go. Thank you, Jamie.

• 1:29:47Speaker 02

  It's called the Isabella?

• 1:29:49Speaker 01

  Oh, here we go.

• 1:29:49Speaker 04

  The workout itself is called the Isabelle.

• 1:29:51Speaker 01

  So this is Noah Olson, who's an absolute specimen, by the way.

• 1:29:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, so this dude is-

• 1:29:54Speaker 01

  I think he's competed in more CrossFit games.

• 1:29:56Speaker 02

  Catching it and then using his legs to, to complete it. So he's doing it awesome. This is perfect technique. Look at that. Catching it. Also, they're not catching it on their chest and pressing it off.

• 1:30:06Speaker 01

  No, so that's a snatch.

• 1:30:07Speaker 04

  It's like a snatch press, kind of something.

• 1:30:08Speaker 02

  Okay, so he's, so it's called the Isabella?

• 1:30:11Speaker 01

  But you see the rest, I suppose, between sets compared to the, the delres- and, and like I said, Noah's a good friend. He's an absolute specimen.

• 1:30:20Speaker 02

  What is, uh, what is the term WOD? What does that stand for again?

• 1:30:23Speaker 04

  Workout of the day.

• 1:30:24Speaker 02

  What is it? Workout of the day?

• 1:30:25Speaker 04

  Workout of the day.

• 1:30:27Speaker 02

  And EMOMs is, uh, reps per minute, right? Isn't that what it is?

• 1:30:32Speaker 01

  Where are we?

• 1:30:34Speaker 02

  Okay, so this workout of the day is a whole bunch of these?

• 1:30:37Speaker 01

  Oh, thirty snatches. I think this one's different, actually. It might be different.

• 1:30:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, cause it's thirty. Well, the, why did the, Eddie said that he, he did that particular Isabelle benchmark workout in fifty seconds. So I think that's, I mean, that's just what I'm going off of. I was trying to find.

• 1:30:51Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 1:30:51Speaker 04

  If it's something different, my bad, bud.

• 1:30:53Speaker 01

  No, but yeah, but it, it does illustrate.

• 1:30:56Speaker 02

  Interesting, uh, beating the previous male record previously associated with figures like Rich Froning, but Rich Froning's like way smaller than him.

• 1:31:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:04Speaker 02

  Which is crazy, that he could do that. Cause it's the same weight, right?

• 1:31:08Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:31:09Speaker 02

  Is it the same weight they're all using?

• 1:31:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, it will be sixty, yeah.

• 1:31:12Speaker 02

  That's even nuts, that Rich Froning could do that with, cause I don't think his body weight is anywhere even close to that. Eddie Hall's three hundred plus pounds, right?

• 1:31:23Speaker 01

  He's got a bit leaner now as well.

• 1:31:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, he, he's getting smaller. Well, he's done some MMA fights and shit.

• 1:31:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, with Tommy as well. He, did you see, he went the distance as well with Tommy Fury?

• 1:31:31Speaker 02

  Yes, crazy.

• 1:31:33Speaker 01

  So I think they both won that fight. It was amazing in that.

• 1:31:35Speaker 02

  Crazy.

• 1:31:36Speaker 01

  You know, yeah, no one expected him to go that far.

• 1:31:38Speaker 02

  You know what I was really impressed with? When he had a boxing match with The Mountain. And what I was really impressed with was The Mountain, I never say his name correctly. How do you say his name?

• 1:31:48Speaker 01

  Thor Bjornson, I believe.

• 1:31:49Speaker 02

  Bjornson, Bjornson?

• 1:31:50Speaker 01

  Thor Bjornson, yeah.

• 1:31:50Speaker 02

  He didn't use his strength. Like, he was throwing punches like with perfect technique. He was throwing punches like a boxer. Like, he learned how to, whoever trained him, they did an amazing job. Because the guy's obviously got ridiculous power, but he, he, he's like throwing punches correctly. And he dropped Eddie Hall a few times, whereas Eddie Hall's just winging at him with these wild power shots. Thor is moving around him and look, see how he's throwing his technique? It's very clean, man. Even his jab, look at that. It's, he's not overextending. I mean, he clearly is like a new boxer, but a very good athlete, and is figuring out how to use his, his technique and, and recognize that the

• 1:32:33Speaker 02

  power's always gonna be there, cause he's so fucking huge. He dropped him a few times in that, at least once in that fight.

• 1:32:39Speaker 01

  I find that amazing, when sometimes like the laws of martial arts sometimes need to be slightly bent for people that size. You know, again, having rolled with certain people, like, you get an arm bar and they just stand up with you.

• 1:32:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, that's a problem. Like, there's certain techniques. Marcelo Garcia, who's the Giant Killer, he famously would just go for necks. Like, because he felt like Kimura, like he, obviously he knew how to use a Kimura. He's a very high level black belt, one of the greatest grapplers of all time, if not the greatest. And Marcelo never hit Kimuras, he would just get necks. So he became a neck specialist. So his whole thing was, uh, high elbow guillotine and rear naked choke. If he got your back, you're fucked. And that was how he was able to defeat much larger opponents. Because you can't really defend. If he can get that rear naked choke around your neck and stop the blood to your brain, that's it. You go to sleep. Like, you, you cannot tap. If someone gets you an arm bar, you could allow your arm to get broken. And I've seen it happen a lot

• 1:33:34Speaker 02

  of times. But what you can't do is stop a guy from choking you unconscious. And so Marcelo, being as smart as he is and being a small guy, he's like a hundred and sixty pounds, he just figured, okay, I'll just get everybody's neck. And he just became a neck specialist.

• 1:33:46Speaker 01

  See, I love what you said there as well, because I, I often think, you know, the best athletes are the best at doing what they do best. And what I mean by that, whether it's ultramarathon running, whether it is CrossFit, World's Strongest Man, it doesn't matter, you lean into what you're really good at. You're sort of Khabib wrestling, uh, you know, Pereira striking.

• 1:34:03Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:34:03Speaker 01

  It's just, you just drill what you're really good. And I think for me, swimming, certainly that's what I've sort of honed in on. I'm like, look, I'm not gonna be built like Michael Phelps. I don't have this poetic, nice stroke. But what I can do is just get crazy strong for an endurance athlete, so my strength reserve is so much bigger.

• 1:34:19Speaker 02

  And do something really insane, like swimming for three fucking days.

• 1:34:23Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:34:24Speaker 02

  That's the thing, is like, most of these guys are just not gonna be willing to do that. They're willing to do a race, because in a race, you just go all out. And, you know, it only lasts for a few seconds, and when it's over, it's over. But, you know,

• 1:34:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:34:35Speaker 02

  You do that, and you can turn around, the shore's right there. Like, you, you have to keep going. You have many days in front of you. And that's just a completely different thing, you know?

• 1:34:45Speaker 01

  I think that's it, because I've always, I was brought up with my, my dad and my grandad telling me stories, one of athletes, but two, you know, the heroic age of Antarctic exploration, when Admondson, Robert Falcon Scott, Shackleton were trying to get to the South Pole. And you know about the Robert Falcon Scott and Admondson, the, the contrast in what they did? You know, with Admondson, just Norwegian efficiency to get to the South Pole. So turns up, he's learnt so much from those indigenous in the Arctic, learnt about dogs. All of the crew were gifted in cross-country skiing. In comparison, the, the British guy, Robert Falcon Scott, brought ponies that fell through the ice, mechanical sleds that broke down, tinned food, terrible. What was so interesting, as they got there, Admondson even knew, as he got to the South Pole, he had a certain amount of dogs. And then on

• 1:35:30Speaker 01

  the way back, he knew he could start systematically eating the dogs on the way back. Whereas the British, Robert Falcon Scott, refused to do that. They were just handling, manhandling all of their sleds. And when they got there to the South Pole, they saw the Norwegian flag there already. Then were forced to trek back. And, I mean, one of the most harrowing, it was Lawrence Oates, um, whose foot was, you know, badly injured. And he just knew that he was holding up the team. And then famously, as they were caught in a, in a blizzard, he just turned to the team and just said, gentlemen, I'm going for a short walk. I might be a while. And he just walked to his death to try to make sure that his team made it.

• 1:36:04Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 1:36:05Speaker 01

  And they didn't, they didn't, unfortunately, yeah. And I think it's that idea of kind of like, you know, civilization and survival, you know, you have to go to a, a strange place sometimes to actually make it. And I think that's, that was almost the appeal for my career in inverted commas, if you could call it.

• 1:36:22Speaker 02

  Well, that's the appeal to people that are watching, for sure. That you're clearly going to some strange place, or you could die, you know? And that's why people like watching your, uh, what, what would you call, I almost said stunts, but that's disrespectful.

• 1:36:34Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 1:36:35Speaker 02

  I would say, but they're not stunts, they're, you know, journeys.

• 1:36:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, they, they are, yeah. They, in, in some ways, when we're raising-

• 1:36:42Speaker 02

  Quest is a noble way of saying it.

• 1:36:43Speaker 01

  I appreciate that. No, no, you're quite right. It, it is, I always say they're almost these sporting spectacles that we use as a Trojan horse to deliver ocean conservation. So I don't mind stunt at all.

• 1:36:54Speaker 02

  Well, that's good that you're doing that. I mean, obviously, that's good. You know, I mean, I, I think that, there's, there's one area of the world that we really are disrespecting, and that's our oceans. And when I say that, I mean, we can't keep pulling fish out at the rate we're doing. It's nuts. If you talk to fishermen, and if you talk, like, the people that have done surveys, and the, obviously, the ocean is enormous, it's very hard to understand. But the, the middle of it is not where everything is. Most of the life on the ocean is near the shores, and, or at least reasonably close to the shores. Ninety fucking percent of all big fish aren't in the ocean anymore. Like, all these tuna men that used to fish tuna way back in the day and catch thousands,

• 1:37:38Speaker 02

  it's a lot less now. It's, and no one is even thinking about it. And, you know, there's regulations that some countries have on the way they're allowed to fish, but some countries don't follow any of those fucking regulations, you know?

• 1:37:53Speaker 01

  You're sorry.

• 1:37:54Speaker 02

  I mean, it's, and what we've done to the, you know, fun fact, this is how Somalians became pirates. So Somalians became pirates because they were fishermen. And they were all just fishermen. They were just peaceful fishermen, living in Somalia, and these, uh, different countries were dumping toxic waste off their shore. And it was killing all the fish. And so they first started kidnapping these people who were dumping these boats filled with toxic sludge, or whatever the fuck they were dumping, nuclear waste, whatever they're dumping into the ocean. And demanding a ransom, because these people have caused them so much loss, because their, their fish are all dead. And then they thought about and said, well, fuck this, why don't we just kidnap people? And so that became their new

• 1:38:37Speaker 02

  sport. So the fish are all dead, and they were on that, what is that stuff called? Cat? Is that what it's called? So there's a, there's a narcotic that they take called cat, and it's a, a leaf that you chew. Is it a nut? Is it a nut? It's a leaf? Um, whatever it is, it's uh, something that you chew that gives you like an amphetamine like state like, "Look at me, I'm the captain now." Like, that's, that's cat.

• 1:39:09Speaker 02

  You're messed up, you weigh eighty pounds, you've been up for seven days, and now you're kidnapping people. And so that's, that's literally Somalia's history. So when you look at like the Somali scams that are happening in America, and you look at like this stuff that's going on in Minnesota, like, well, how do all these Somalis get involved in all these scams? It all goes back to Europeans poisoning their water.

• 1:39:32Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:39:33Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:39:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:34Speaker 02

  Russian, I think, I think Russia poisoned, I don't know, I don't want to blame any countries, but someone was dumping toxic waste in their water, and that's what started it all off. That's true, right? I think they called themselves the People's Coast Guard of Somalia. That's how they started off.

• 1:39:48Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:39:48Speaker 02

  They don't have a long history of pirates, they don't like Blackbeard or any shit like that. This is a fairly recent in human history uh, turn for their culture. And it probably led to a lot of other criminal activity, if you think about it. Like, if the, the core nature of your civilization gets shut off, the core nature is you're a fisherman, right? You live in a village, you all catch fish, that's what you live off of? All that gets shut down, people go into desperation mode, people start taking cat, they're probably taking cat already, but they, they, they're doing amphetamines, and then they're kidnapping folks. Next thing you know, you're getting machine guns, you get all that money, now you got a fucking, you got carbines,

• 1:40:28Speaker 02

  you got a fifty cal.

• 1:40:29Speaker 01

  Is that cat legal? Can I take that when I'm water tested or?

• 1:40:32Speaker 02

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• 1:42:40Speaker 01

  Oh, it's legal?

• 1:42:41Speaker 02

  I think it's, I think it's uh,

• 1:42:43Speaker 01

  Is it legal?

• 1:42:43Speaker 02

  I don't know what it is in America, we probably have it Schedule I. How Somali fishermen became pirates.

• 1:42:49Speaker 04

  It's a little old, it's two thousand nine, it mostly just says that once they lost their government, uh, it became a free-for-all, right here.

• 1:42:56Speaker 02

  I do think that was part of it as well.

• 1:42:58Speaker 04

  The fishermen just kinda got pissed.

• 1:43:00Speaker 02

  I think that was part of it as well, but I think there was an aspect of it about poisoning the water.

• 1:43:04Speaker 04

  I'm sure it probably came up later, because it's just still two thousand nine, this is right, right when it was kicking off, really. At this time, when this article was written, it said they had eighteen cargo ships being held.

• 1:43:15Speaker 02

  Okay, this is, but, see, I think this is, everything had already started to fall apart, and I think it started to fall apart when the fish went away. If I remember correctly, this was quite a long time ago, I read this. But see if you can put it into perplexity. Say, uh, is there a connection between Somali pirates and offshore dumping of toxic waste that led to depleting of their fishing grounds?

• 1:43:38Speaker 04

  I didn't ask that exact question, I just asked, what was the reason they started taking ransoms?

• 1:43:42Speaker 02

  Um, but see if that factors in, see if it says that, if you say, was there uh, an aspect of it where they were kidnapping people who had poisoned their water? Kidnapping people who poisoned their water.

• 1:43:59Speaker 02

  Sweet doo doo, isn't AI wonderful? I know it's gonna kill us all. Not necessarily, people they kidnapped were not all people poisoning the water, right, but initially.

• 1:44:10Speaker 02

  There were serious reports and allegations of foreign companies dumping hazardous waste off of Somalia. However, a UN Environmental OCHA account said two years earlier, UN fact-checking missions found no evidence, probably because the UN was dumping.

• 1:44:25Speaker 02

  And it's post-tsunami inquiries did not identify specific dumping sites. So they were kidnapping people, poisoning their water is much more definitive than the evidence supports. Yeah, I don't know if we know, um, the problem with AI is it's pulling from all these different sources online, and this, yeah, maybe the story I read was biased as well, but the story that I, well, I read was a sort of a sympathetic take on why there's so many pirates, I don't, not sympathetic, but an understanding take, like, they're saying, like, you need to understand that this is a chain of consequences, a chain of events that took place, and one of those things was people dump,

• 1:45:07Speaker 02

  like, for sure, someone's dumped toxic shit into the ocean, we know they do that. And so it doesn't seem that far of a stretch to imagine that that initially started off uh, a crash in their economy if their fishing lands were, or fishing waters were poisoned.

• 1:45:22Speaker 01

  Go and try and sort it out, I'll do a swim there.

• 1:45:24Speaker 02

  Don't do that. Yeah, swim and dress up like a dollar bill.

• 1:45:30Speaker 01

  I think I could, I'm there or what, straight up on booze, go sort that out.

• 1:45:33Speaker 02

  Get yourself in a gold boat, and put a sign that says, "We have no guns," and go have fun.

• 1:45:39Speaker 01

  That would be amazing.

• 1:45:39Speaker 04

  I re-asked, and it gave a different answer.

• 1:45:42Speaker 02

  Yes, some Somali pirates explicitly described their attacks as retaliation for toxic waste dumping, not just illegal fishing. Uh, previous answer understated the reporting behind that claim, but it does not establish that the crews they kidnapped themselves dumping waste, right? They probably just found people offshore and said, "You were dumping, I'm the captain now." And two, okay, uh, two thousand eight pirate spokesman, oh, they have a spokesman? I wonder if he was elected? I wonder how he became spokesman? You think he had a campaign, you think people had like signs on their lawn? Elect Joanna Ali Jama for spokesman of the pirates. Described a ransom demand as a way uh, of reacting to the toxic waste

• 1:46:25Speaker 02

  that's been continually dumped on the shores of our country for nearly twenty years. Oh, shit, twenty years is a long fucking time. But I believe that. The report connected that claim to the captured MV Finna, a Ukrainian ship carrying tanks and military equipment, not a vessel identified in the report as a dumping waste. But what a great ship to bust. Imagine, you get a fucking boat that's got tanks and military equipment? Now you got yourself a motherfucking army dog. Environmental accusations were solely a private invention. In that reporting, UN envoy, boy, say that guy's name. Help me out.

• 1:47:02Speaker 01

  No, I'm not even gonna attempt that one.

• 1:47:04Speaker 02

  Almadu Alud Abdallah said the UN had reliable information that European and Asian companies were dumping toxic waste off Somalia. UNEP spokesman Nick Natal described Somalia as a hazardous waste dumping ground, but said insecurity prevented a proper scientific assessment of the problem's extent. Well, listen, man, people love to dump shit in the ocean, these fucking assholes, like, you know, you remember when that kid got killed in Egypt? He was at a resort in Egypt, and he got killed by a shark?

• 1:47:36Speaker 01

  I think I saw the video.

• 1:47:38Speaker 02

  It's a horrible video, because he's screaming for his father.

• 1:47:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:47:41Speaker 02

  He's screaming for his father. So what we had heard, and we looked into it, it's not conclusive, but it seems like they were dumping sheep carcasses in the ocean. Like, when they had sheep carcasses, they didn't want them just laying around rotting, so they would put them in a boat, take them out to sea, and dump them in the water. So what did that attract? What do you think that attracted?

• 1:48:05Speaker 02

  And so then these sharks were in that area. And people, there was a really beautiful resort. People go, take their families, go on vacation. In a fucking monster soup.

• 1:48:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:18Speaker 02

  Monster soup right out there. I tell you, make fucking soup out of their dicks. Take, pull them out of the water, serve it up. We need to go back to sharks fin soup. These fucking people think sharks are their friends.

• 1:48:29Speaker 01

  Do I, so do I need to swim Somalia and sort that out then?

• 1:48:32Speaker 02

  I don't think you do. I think you should probably stay out of that. Maybe that'll be the one that kills you. Whatever the fuck is in that water, whatever, the 20 years of toxic dumping, that's not good. You don't want that in your skin.

• 1:48:43Speaker 01

  No deal, no deal.

• 1:48:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:48:45Speaker 01

  Going back to the cardio, I wanted to ask your opinion on this. Uh, best cardio in the UFC, or MMA actually in history?

• 1:48:51Speaker 02

  Oh boy.

• 1:48:52Speaker 01

  I'm gonna go, I'm gonna put some up there. Murab?

• 1:48:54Speaker 02

  Murab is probably, yeah. Bisping had phenomenal cardio. Bisping would melt people. I remember his fight with Jay, Jason Mayhem Miller, who was very talented.

• 1:49:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:03Speaker 02

  Bisping just melted him. Just, his pace was insane.

• 1:49:06Speaker 01

  Nick Diaz?

• 1:49:07Speaker 02

  Nick Diaz, insane pace.

• 1:49:09Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:49:09Speaker 02

  Nate Diaz also.

• 1:49:10Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:49:11Speaker 02

  Also incredible cardio.

• 1:49:12Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:49:12Speaker 02

  There's a lot of these guys now. It's like, it's, we're, we're in a realm now of, of athletes, Joshua Van, insane cardio. Insane cardio. Joshua Van, who's the flyweight champion, the fifth round, fights like he's in the first round. Insane. The level now is, is, is at an all time high.

• 1:49:27Speaker 01

  That's why Kane Velazquez was so weird, because it just didn't make sense.

• 1:49:31Speaker 02

  Didn't make sense.

• 1:49:32Speaker 01

  Demetrius Johnson and small guys, you're just kinda like, yeah, you're not inhibited by gravity the same way. But with Kane Velazquez, you're like, that just, you shouldn't, you should be able to do that.

• 1:49:40Speaker 02

  DC told me Kane would take a couple of months off of training, like he had an injury, had to take time off of training, come back three months later, fuck everybody up at the gym. He said, in cardio drills. He said it was nuts.

• 1:49:49Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:49:50Speaker 02

  He said it was nuts. He said, his, his base was just, just insanity. Meanwhile, he lost the title to Fabricio Verdun in Mexico City at altitude.

• 1:50:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:50:00Speaker 02

  Because he was only there for two weeks.

• 1:50:02Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:50:03Speaker 02

  And Fabricio Verdun, he got a place to train in the mountains above Mexico City. So Fabricio was living at like, I think it was like 9,000 plus feet above sea level and training up there.

• 1:50:14Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:50:15Speaker 02

  And so he had phenomenal cardio and Kane actually gassed out in that fight. And Fabricio caught him in a guillotine to win the title.

• 1:50:22Speaker 01

  I remember, yeah.

• 1:50:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, man, that was a big moment because nobody had ever, not just beaten Kane that way, but beaten Kane with, like, where Kane was tired. Like, you never saw Kane tired.

• 1:50:33Speaker 01

  Hmm, yeah.

• 1:50:34Speaker 02

  It just shows you that altitude training is fucking critical, man. If you wanna compete at altitude. I was showing you the hypoxia chamber that we have here, the Exalt, uh, I think it's called the Exalt XP Hypoxia Trainer. It is so hard to work out at altitude. But if you can do it, I did it in preparation for this, uh, hunt that I did in Utah, and so I did it for two months. And I was very rigorous, but I was very regular. I was doing two really hard cardio workouts inside that thing a week. And that's all they recommend. They said, don't do more than that, because you'll get to a point where you can't recover. Like, you want two, maybe three, once you've built up, but I never got to three. Made a giant difference.

• 1:51:18Speaker 02

  Giant difference. Like, I could really, because I go to the same place every year, and at the highest point, it's probably 9,000 feet. Sometimes you're at 5,000, 7,000, but, you know, you're walking up like very steep, loose dirt at 5,000, 7,000 feet. It's hard. It's really hard.

• 1:51:36Speaker 01

  So, so you could feel it physiologically?

• 1:51:38Speaker 02

  100%.

• 1:51:39Speaker 01

  Hemoglobin?

• 1:51:39Speaker 02

  I could feel that I had more gas. 100%. Yeah, a big difference, big difference. And I only got to do it for two months, and now I'm thinking, I'm getting ready for next September. I'm like, if I can do it for a whole year, if I could do that twice a week for a year, that'll make a giant difference by the time September rolls around.

• 1:51:57Speaker 01

  100%.

• 1:51:57Speaker 02

  I think that's gonna change a lot of the way, I think that particular type of training, when you're training at, like, that machine can crank you up to above 20,000 feet above sea level. I've only done 14, I've done 14.5, that's the highest I've done. It's, it's insanity. There's no air in there, man. There's no fucking air in there. And you're doing sprints on the air dye machine, you're doing sprints on the treadmill, and you're doing kettlebell swings, and it's like, when you get out of there, man, it's like your body gets this rush of oxygen. You're like, huh, ah, as soon as you open the door, you're like, oh my god. But then, once you recover from it, the next time, it's a little bit easier. And the next time, it's a little bit easier. It's like you feel your body adapting, because it's like, oh shit, we gotta do this.

• 1:52:40Speaker 02

  So in a real world scenario, like what we are here, like, what is the sea level here? What's the altitude here?

• 1:52:47Speaker 04

  500, 600 feet?

• 1:52:48Speaker 02

  It's nothing, it's nothing. You feel like there's so much fucking air, you can run through a building. That's what it feels like, and I think that's a game changer, and so many of these, like, really high level camps have chosen to train at altitude. You know, you have a, a bunch of them, obviously the Dagestani's, they train, I don't know what, what is Dagestan? What is, uh, Dagestan above sea level? I gotta, it's in the mountains.

• 1:53:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53:13Speaker 02

  I gotta say they're probably 4,500, 5,000 feet. You know, obviously, they have the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs. I think that's above 5,000 feet, you know, and...

• 1:53:24Speaker 04

  They have actually both, they go, they have, they have areas below sea level. That are down by the Caspian Coast, and they have mountain peaks that...

• 1:53:35Speaker 04

  Average elevation is 500 meters though.

• 1:53:37Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 1:53:38Speaker 04

  So it's like 1,500, 600 feet.

• 1:53:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53:40Speaker 04

  Max is 14,000.

• 1:53:41Speaker 02

  Max is what?

• 1:53:42Speaker 04

  That's a peak, that's a mountain peak, it's 14,000.

• 1:53:44Speaker 02

  Max is 14,000, but these, some of these mountain towns, like where Khabib is, where's he at?

• 1:53:51Speaker 02

  I know they do runs, they do runs at altitude.

• 1:53:54Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:53:54Speaker 02

  You know, as does like the guys in Denver.

• 1:53:56Speaker 04

  High spot.

• 1:53:57Speaker 02

  What's that?

• 1:53:58Speaker 04

  2,000 meters above, so 6,500 or so.

• 1:54:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:54:01Speaker 04

  Where he has Sildi.

• 1:54:02Speaker 02

  Okay, so he's pretty high. 6,000, 6,000 feet is high. So if you're, if you're training at that altitude, that's, that's akin to Colorado Springs or a lot of these places. You know, um, Justin Gagey's coach, Trevor Whitman, he has a lot of his guys, they do runs in the mountains. They do these runs uphill of the mountains.

• 1:54:20Speaker 01

  Unlimited water as well. There's some good stuff now around dehydration training.

• 1:54:24Speaker 02

  That's Justin's big thing, he will not drink water while he's training.

• 1:54:27Speaker 01

  Controlled dehydration, yeah.

• 1:54:29Speaker 02

  Oh, Jesus. There could be up there. That's, that view is insane.

• 1:54:35Speaker 01

  So there, there is, uh, this is a weird story. I've got, um, there is a method that could make you a faster runner. Um, and I'm gonna apologize now, this is a little bit left field, but I was in Namibia, I was, um, learning from the San Bushmen out there, so we were...

• 1:54:47Speaker 02

  How do you organize that?

• 1:54:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, always a documentary.

• 1:54:50Speaker 02

  Through WhatsApp?

• 1:54:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:54:54Speaker 01

  So we are out there doing like a marathon a day, we, for the entire week, barely any water, it was horrible. One particular guy out there, and they're amazing, they're just gliding across the sand basically as well. I'm just like heavy running, trying to keep up with them. And there was one particular guy in the tribe as well, who was, um, could trace his ancestry back to the Kurlajin tribe. Did you know about the Kurlajin tribe?

• 1:55:12Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:55:13Speaker 01

  So it's basically an ethnic group specific to Kenya. You, oh, you've already smashed yours, I'm still working on mine. I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

• 1:55:20Speaker 02

  Talking shit, let's go, sorry.

• 1:55:23Speaker 01

  So basically, um, Kurlajin tribe, ethnic group specific to Kenya, produce, uh, more amazing marathon runners than anywhere else. It's disproportionate just how good they are with this particular group of people. Um, and as we're sitting around the campfire, they turned to me and they said, uh, this guy goes, Ross, do you know why we're so good? Do you know why the Kurlajin tribe are so good at running? And I said, altitude, and he went, nope. And I was like, mm, barefoot running, so beautiful biomechanics, nope.

• 1:55:46Speaker 02

  Circumcision.

• 1:55:48Speaker 01

  Oh, you know it?

• 1:55:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, and crawling, crawling through needles.

• 1:55:51Speaker 01

  Oh, you know it.

• 1:55:52Speaker 02

  Crawling through thorns.

• 1:55:53Speaker 01

  You're right, and they, but, but with the mud as well?

• 1:55:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:56Speaker 01

  And they don't pass on, yeah, so it's...

• 1:55:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, circumcision as a grown boy with, uh, no, no, nothing. No water, no cleanliness, no, no anesthesia, just they cut it. I think these, these are knife, right, or a sharp rock?

• 1:56:11Speaker 01

  Well, the, the, the theory goes that he was saying that basically with the circumcision, you're basically as a young man in front of the entire tribe, they all come out and they put clay, like mud, on your face. And so you have to, like, just sit there, and then basically the guy takes, the chief of the tribe takes your tackle, and then with essentially...

• 1:56:26Speaker 02

  Tackle, I like that.

• 1:56:29Speaker 01

  Takes your tackle, circumcises you, you cannot flinch. If you flinch and the mud cracks, all of a sudden in the tribe, everyone will be like, oh, he's not very desirable. So you don't basically find a girl, you don't have kids, and only those where the mud doesn't crack, they're considered desirable, and they pass on their genetics. So generation after generation, you're passing on this pain tolerance, and then in the end you end up Kurlajin tribe, just unbelievable runners, yeah. I mean, he looked across and said, Ross, do you wanna be faster? Pulled out a knife, and I was like, I'm good.

• 1:57:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. What if you're already circumcised? What's he gonna do, take it back an inch? Fuck, dude. Yeah, what does he do then? Like, I want in, but the problem is, they did me when I was a kid. Didn't even help. I didn't have to crawl through thorns, nothing. Yeah, you have to crawl through thorns with your bloody dick.

• 1:57:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:57:18Speaker 02

  And you can't wince, can't make any noise.

• 1:57:20Speaker 01

  That's the whole point, yeah, and then those...

• 1:57:22Speaker 02

  Can't react to the pain.

• 1:57:23Speaker 01

  Those who don't react, considered desirable, they pass on their genetics, so generation after generation, you just get this incredible...

• 1:57:29Speaker 02

  Are you gonna show me a video, Jamie? How dare you?

• 1:57:31Speaker 04

  It's paused. I just, that's what they look like with the mud on their faces, I think.

• 1:57:36Speaker 02

  Oh, boy.

• 1:57:39Speaker 04

  Getting ready. Some lady talking about it. Yeah.

• 1:57:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, fun times.

• 1:57:42Speaker 01

  And then you've just got to remain there.

• 1:57:43Speaker 02

  All that just to run.

• 1:57:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:57:45Speaker 02

  I hope somebody beats him that doesn't do that.

• 1:57:48Speaker 01

  Well, it's funny you said that, actually. So do you know about Emile Zatipak?

• 1:57:51Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:57:52Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, this guy, he, the greatest endurance runner, in my opinion, to ever exist. He's amazing. So, so basically, to this day, no one's ever done what he did at the Olympics. Helsinki Olympics, won the 5,000, won the 10,000, and then turned to his coach and he just went, "Um, I think I will run marathon tomorrow." And his coach was like, "No, no, no, this is a terrible idea. You should not run the marathon. It's completely different events, you know, over twice as far. Emile, this is a terrible, uh, an idea." And he turns and Emile just goes, "Hmm, who, who is the favorite?" And it was a British guy. So it was the British guy, he's, he's, everybody thinks he's gonna win. And Emile goes, "Okay, no problem. What I do, I will run on his shoulder, and then just at the end, before we get into stadium, I go boop, and I run around and I will finish."

• 1:58:34Speaker 01

  And the coach was like, "Please, Emile, this is just, you've got two gold medals, please, let's just leave it there." And he goes, "No, no, no, no." This documentary is amazing. It then cuts to the British guy who's older and he's recounting this, this entire race. And he says, "I am, uh, I'm running and, uh, things are going well, and then I, I feel on my shoulder, I feel this, this Emile just pops up on my shoulder." And Emile turns to him and he goes, "I, um, I'm so sorry, I've never run marathon before, um, so I don't know if it's too fast or too slow." And I thought to myself, "You shit, I'm gonna mess with you, I'm gonna mess with your head." So I turned and I said, "No, no, no, this is far too slow, we're in trouble." Thinking that would break in. And Emile just turned and went, "No problem, I will see you at finish line," and ran and won. Three gold medals, Helsinki Olympics.

• 1:59:18Speaker 01

  The reason I tell that story as well is not many people know, so his training, next time you're down an athletics track, he used to do 100, 400 meter sprints.

• 1:59:27Speaker 02

  What?

• 1:59:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, a sprint marathon.

• 1:59:29Speaker 02

  In a day?

• 1:59:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, not a day, but, but he pioneered interval training. People didn't think you could train that hard. There he is.

• 1:59:36Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:59:37Speaker 01

  Look, and what I love as well is how he ran. He ran like he'd been shot in the leg. That's not Emile.

• 1:59:41Speaker 02

  What do you mean?

• 1:59:42Speaker 01

  He was just, there he is, there he is. So he runs like he's been shot, like it's ugly technique.

• 1:59:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, his head's bobbling.

• 1:59:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. This, and again, I think this is the marathon, so this is after he's already won the 5,000 and the 10,000. And here he is, he was...

• 1:59:54Speaker 02

  He looks like he's in agony.

• 1:59:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So, and the story goes with that as well, and this is what I love. So, with somebody like him, 100, 400 meter sprints, but his, his wife was an amazing javelin thrower as well. So date night for them is they'd go out and his wife would just like launch the javelin and he would go and get it like a dog.

• 2:00:15Speaker 01

  And be like, "Here you go, babe," she'd be like, "Thanks, babe."

• 2:00:18Speaker 02

  That's hilarious.

• 2:00:19Speaker 01

  He used to, uh, run with his wife on his back through the woods, and then sometimes when he wasn't able to run because it was snowing too much or conditions would allow, famously, he would get in the bath and just basically just tread on, on dirty laundry as well, just to try to just...

• 2:00:32Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 2:00:33Speaker 01

  So Emile Zatipak, to your point, I always find it fascinating that sometimes when you talk about people who are, you know, "I've been training so hard, I've sacrificed so much." I'm like, "Yeah, that's great, but I don't want to go against an Emile Zatipak, someone who just loves it, someone who just date night is running out their intervals, bringing back."

• 2:00:50Speaker 02

  Well, have you heard of that race they do where it's a race until everyone else drops out?

• 2:00:57Speaker 01

  Of course, backyard ultras.

• 2:00:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:00:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:59Speaker 02

  But it's, there, there can only be one. One person can win.

• 2:01:02Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah, that's amazing. You must, I, I think Chris Williamson was talking about it, you know, a mutual friend of ours talking about Mark Dowdell, who was just basically like hunting and like just stalking the competition.

• 2:01:13Speaker 02

  Uh-huh.

• 2:01:14Speaker 01

  And it was called the Last Soul Ultra.

• 2:01:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:01:16Speaker 01

  And so Mark Dowdell, when this guy stopped like tying his shoelace, Mark was behind him and just hunting him like prey. And they had them on the, the night vision, and they're like, "What is going on? It's just mind games."

• 2:01:27Speaker 02

  And so one person eventually doesn't quit.

• 2:01:30Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 2:01:30Speaker 02

  Everybody else quits.

• 2:01:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:01:32Speaker 02

  How long did they go?

• 2:01:33Speaker 01

  These go, I think, there's, the current record, I swear somebody did something like 91 hours. Yeah, it's just, it's just nuts. It's just nuts. I swear, yeah.

• 2:01:44Speaker 02

  Oh, my God!

• 2:01:45Speaker 01

  I think it was Phil, Jamie, if you find it, but he, he recently, yeah. Oh, there you go, Mark Dowdell, that's when he won the Last Soul Ultra.

• 2:01:52Speaker 02

  95 laps, 636.5 kilometers.

• 2:01:57Speaker 01

  The man's savage.

• 2:01:58Speaker 02

  Last Soul Ultra. Oh, my God.

• 2:02:00Speaker 01

  But he talks about it as well. What I love is he talks about actually collecting their souls. So, so at the end, you're basically given a trinket which has got everybody's soul on it, and he's there like some ancient warrior holding it up.

• 2:02:15Speaker 02

  In a way, he's kind of right.

• 2:02:16Speaker 01

  Oh, there you go, yeah.

• 2:02:17Speaker 02

  He ran for 94 straight hours without sleep to win the Last Soul Ultra. 94 hours is crazy. Like, what was he seeing? What was he seeing at hour 92? How many elves did he come into contact with? For sure, he saw elves, right?

• 2:02:36Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 2:02:37Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 2:02:38Speaker 04

  He was on loop 72.

• 2:02:40Speaker 02

  Oh, my God. And the thing about him too is he's kind of a bigger guy.

• 2:02:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, I believe his background was lacrosse as well. So he weight trains, which goes back to what I was talking about before, about mechanotransduction, strength reserve, that you're, that, you'd say that doesn't make sense for an ultra endurance athlete, but again, I would argue that his biomechanics are just perfect and they won't break down compared to somebody who doesn't have that strength background.

• 2:03:03Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 2:03:04Speaker 01

  Um, so there actually, yes, the, there's a backyard ultra, he's actually doing it at the moment, I think.

• 2:03:08Speaker 02

  94 hours is bananas.

• 2:03:11Speaker 04

  Oh, that was an update from now.

• 2:03:12Speaker 02

  What's that?

• 2:03:13Speaker 04

  That video I just played was right now.

• 2:03:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're doing it now, so I think it's Team America.

• 2:03:16Speaker 02

  Oh, it's happening right now?

• 2:03:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03:18Speaker 04

  On loop 54 right now, or this one, two hours ago.

• 2:03:21Speaker 01

  And he's just on social media, just talking through everything as well.

• 2:03:25Speaker 02

  Loop 54. How many days ago is that? This is 20, 20 hours ago.

• 2:03:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, this is right now, yeah.

• 2:03:30Speaker 01

  He talks about, like, on the first 24 hours, he's just like, "That's just your ticket," you know? "That just gets you in the race. It's now it begins," and that's after 24 hours.

• 2:03:40Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 2:03:43Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 2:03:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think, and also as well...

• 2:03:46Speaker 02

  94 hours is crazy.

• 2:03:47Speaker 01

  It's nuts. It's not, I mean, for me, on some of my swims as well, just those hallucinations, like when they start, like, probably one of my worst was Loch Ness, and that was before everything went really bad. Loch Ness is basically really narrow, um, and when you look up at night, it looked like there was loads of trees, but the trees almost formed the silhouette of, uh, like a cruise ship. I remember being like, "That's really weird." I'm eating a banana and I'm looking up, and all of a sudden the branches start waving, and to me at the time, I was like, "It looks like people have come to the side of the cruise ship to support me." So my girlfriend's watching and all the crew, and I'm just there eating a banana, and I'm going, "Guys, thank you so much, your support means especially 2 o'clock in the morning, God bless you guys, thank you," like that. And my girlfriend's like, "Oh, he's, he's talking to the trees."

• 2:04:32Speaker 01

  Like, he's thanking them for their support. So sometimes, oh, here you go, yeah, that's when he's, that's when he's stalking him.

• 2:04:39Speaker 04

  He's just waiting behind him.

• 2:04:40Speaker 01

  And he's like, "What are you doing?" For what I love, it's all mind games at this point.

• 2:04:46Speaker 04

  I'm not going anywhere.

• 2:04:47Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 2:04:48Speaker 01

  I think the reason I love Mark as well is because he's bringing a level of gamesmanship and mind games that, that wasn't really seen in ultra endurance.

• 2:04:55Speaker 02

  Right, they're all supposed to be super supportive of each other.

• 2:04:58Speaker 01

  Exactly. And I think you see it in other sports as well.

• 2:05:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, but you can't be super supportive if there's only gonna be one person standing.

• 2:05:04Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly. I mean, one of my favorite examples in, in MMA was, uh, Yuri and Pereira, where they were talking about no shamanic ritual.

• 2:05:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:05:15Speaker 01

  And I'm like, "Look, whatever..."

• 2:05:17Speaker 02

  Yuri was saying, "Don't use any voodoo, please. Don't use any magic."

• 2:05:22Speaker 01

  I was like, "This is the greatest time in the UFC when someone's going, you're not allowed to use magic."

• 2:05:26Speaker 02

  "I want a clean fight, no magic."

• 2:05:27Speaker 01

  No, it's amazing. I mean, on, on that note, who do you think is the best at mind games, uh, in UFC history?

• 2:05:33Speaker 04

  Charles Sonnen.

• 2:05:34Speaker 02

  Charles Sonnen's really good, but Conor McGregor's pretty damn good, too. Conor McGregor, when he fought Jose Aldo, he had Jose Aldo in a funk. Like, cause Aldo was a legend and he was respected by everyone, and Conor was just continually disrespecting him.

• 2:05:49Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 2:05:49Speaker 02

  And just mocking him. He stole his belt famously at the press conference. He was in his fucking head, you know? But obviously that backfired against Khabib, because that shit didn't work on Khabib. And Khabib was on top of him, punched him in the face saying, "Let's talk now. Let's talk now." He just punched him in the face, "Let's talk now." And Conor was trying to say it's only business. He's like, "Come on, we're talking."

• 2:06:10Speaker 01

  This is what I find so strange, that if aliens came down to this world and you had to explain to them, like, who is the best mixed martial artist? You'd go, "Okay, so here's Khabib, uh, devout Muslim, uh, doesn't drink, uh, you know, lives in the mountains," and you'd go, "Oh, cool, so that's the blueprint," and you'd go, "Oh, well, no, sorry, so there's a guy, John Jones, over here."

• 2:06:29Speaker 02

  Does coke and fucks everybody up.

• 2:06:34Speaker 02

  There's outliers, there's outliers, there's outliers.

• 2:06:37Speaker 01

  It's exactly it, yeah.

• 2:06:38Speaker 02

  There's always like these Bo Jackson characters that could do anything. There's, there's, there's people out there in the world that are outliers. And it's very unusual when you stumble across them. It's one of the things, we love watching an outlier. We love watching someone that's just like so unique and different than everyone else. Like, wow. We love that. Like Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, or someone that's just like above and beyond. You're like, wow. We love that.

• 2:07:02Speaker 01

  That was it. Definitely looking at like the hero's journey with Joseph Campbell, good versus evil. And with the whole Daniel Cormier and Jon Jones rivalry, I was like, oh, this is it. This is amazing. This is the, you know, the good and evil and this is. And then you have something like Jon Jones who just goes, oh, no, that's, that's not. For me in boxing as well, it was Mayweather and I loved Ricky Hatton as well. So when you saw Mayweather there, like if it doesn't make money, it doesn't make sense on the bags. And then you got Ricky Hatton having a cup of tea with his grandma and you're like, oh, this is it. That's so wholesome.

• 2:07:30Speaker 02

  That's a little bit of bullshit though. Ricky was a fucking animal. He was, he was an animal. Ricky Hatton separated a lot of people from their consciousness. He was an animal. That was a, that was just a skill thing.

• 2:07:42Speaker 01

  Right, okay, but Daniel Cormier is a good one. They're teaching kids wrestling and you're like, oh, this is amazing. And then.

• 2:07:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:07:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:07:48Speaker 02

  Well, you know, Jon's not a bad guy. He's just an animal. I mean, he's, he's cut from a different cloth. You know, there's, there's people in this world that are just wilder, you know? And it's one of the reasons why he's so good. There's a certain element, if you want to be a professional cage fighter, you have to, there's a certain amount of. You have to have all these things, to be the GOAT like Jon, you have to have all these things. Like, perfect technique, incredible work ethic when he does work, amazing talent and an IQ for it. It's, that's a really underrated factor. Cause Jon knows what to do with each, famously will not take a fight on short notice. Even with a guy like Chael Sonnen, who on paper, you could wake Jon up at three o'clock in the morning, he's gonna fuck Chael Sonnen up. On paper.

• 2:08:33Speaker 02

  No disrespect to Chael, he's a great fighter, but there's levels and I think Jon is just on a complete, and he's a larger man. Right? Chael did his, some of his best work, almost won the title against Anderson Silva at 185. Jon is never making 185. He's a much bigger man. And Jon would not take a fight with Chael Sonnen on short notice. And then when, when he did take a fight with Chael Sonnen, he fucked him up in the first round. He just annihilated him.

• 2:08:56Speaker 01

  Even with a bad toe.

• 2:08:57Speaker 02

  And, well, he smashed his toe in the process. He was pushing off the ground so hard that he twisted his own fucking toe around. I think we isolated it in a replay where we could see the moment where his toe snapped. And it was because he was delivering ground and pound with such force that as he was pushing off, he snapped his own toe and turned it around. And to this day, when he fights, he has to tape those toes together. To this day.

• 2:09:23Speaker 01

  One of my favorite Jon Jones is the, the arm bar with Vitor Belfort.

• 2:09:26Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:09:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:27Speaker 02

  Completely hyperextended. But it's another example of like, guys won't tap if you break their arm. You know, they, they will hang on. And then he wound up winning that fight by Kimura in the next round.

• 2:09:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, he got through that where most people would have tapped. His arm was fucked and he couldn't fight for a long time after that because he had to rehabilitate that arm. His arm was fucked. Yeah.

• 2:09:48Speaker 01

  Going back to the.

• 2:09:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, look at that. I mean, that is, and also that's Vitor, who was a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu black belt under Carlson Gracie, elite arm bar. And then he wound up tapping Vitor in the next round.

• 2:10:00Speaker 01

  Even with his fight with Gustafson as well, it just, I like, going back to that anterior metingular cortex, it just must be massive in him.

• 2:10:08Speaker 02

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• 2:12:10Speaker 01

  As well, do you think, who, who do you think, I mean, there's obviously Gagey. Who do you think is one of the most durable, one of the most?

• 2:12:16Speaker 02

  Gagey's probably the most durable guy ever, which is like incredible that Max Holloway knocked him out like that. But other guys that stopped him before too, but that's just a part of being a human being. If you're a human being and you get hit by the greatest fighters in the world, you get stopped. It's just how it is. It's just like, there's, if you get hit clean, no matter who you are, some guys are more durable than other guys, but no matter who you are. Somebody head kicks you, if somebody hits you with a wheel kick or something like that, you're most likely gonna go unconscious or close to it.

• 2:12:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:12:45Speaker 02

  That's just a part of the game, a flying knee. Very few people can survive that. It's just, it's like one of those things where you get hit and you just seep. Did you see the fight this weekend or, or two weekends ago rather? With Johnny Walker?

• 2:12:58Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 2:12:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. Johnny Walker hit this dude with a knee from the tie clinch.

• 2:13:06Speaker 01

  A heavyweight?

• 2:13:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:13:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:13:07Speaker 02

  And just separated him from his consciousness. Like, and this guy's a massive 265 pound man that he did it to. And it just proves my point. It's like, no matter who you are, there's certain things, if you get hit with them, you just can't take it.

• 2:13:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:13:22Speaker 02

  You just can't take it. And with, you know, the Max Holloway fight with Justin, that was in a five round war. He'd been beaten up because he got hit with a jump spinning back kick to the face at the end of the first round, shattered his nose. So his nose bone was broken. So he's compromised from the end of the first round on. And then Max is hitting him with all these shots. And then finally in the fifth round, in a fight that Max is winning, Max points to the ground and says, let's just stand and throw. And they just wail at each other and Max famously knocks him out, like one of the greatest. But that's not indicative of how durable he is. It's like, most people would have never made it to that fifth round. He's insanely durable. And that's why you saw that fight with Ilya Toporia. He weathered that second round and came back strong in the third.

• 2:14:07Speaker 02

  He's insanely durable, like maybe the most durable guy in the sport and the most calm under fire. Like he never, it never changes his expression. He never looks lost, even when he's getting hurt, he never looks out of it. He just looks hurt, but he's always like, like he went back to his corner after the second round with Toporia. Toporia dropped him with a liver shot. He goes, nice liver shot. He said, nice liver shot. He got me with a nice body shot. He was like complimenting his opponent for hitting him in a good spot. He was like that calm, like that was nice, nice liver shot.

• 2:14:40Speaker 01

  I feel it's, it's almost that Emile Zatapek, it's genuine. You've seen in the corner, he's having the best time.

• 2:14:44Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 2:14:45Speaker 01

  I'm just like, oh, you're wired different.

• 2:14:47Speaker 02

  He's wired different. Justin's wired very different. He's wired very different. He's very smart. Like, he's a smart meathead. Like people think of him as being a dumbass because he's like silly and he does backflips and uh uh. He's thought it out, like he's, he knows what he's doing. Like he's, he's doing things that are very intelligent in there. And he has a bunch of things that he does that he does better than anybody else. And one of them is the uppercut from the collar tie. He does this collar tie uppercut and he hits everybody with it because he's a really good wrestler. Even though he doesn't use his wrestling in MMA, he started out as a wrestler and he's a very good athlete. And he's got this collar tie uppercut that he catches everybody with. And he pulls you into that uppercut, man. He fucks a lot of guys up with that.

• 2:15:31Speaker 02

  That's one of his signature moves.

• 2:15:33Speaker 01

  But you, you've spoke about as well with his wrestling in the past. I think this is so interesting. Going back to what we said about the, the ventral striatum, the part of the brain that when things aren't going well, it almost implodes. Like losing feels so, so bad. But I think wrestlers are just used to just getting beaten up, beaten up. Yeah. One of the best examples on the swim, I have a friend who's in the special forces. I was just every single tide, every single swim, I was just behind, I was behind. It was just, again, like I said, just biochemically, neuro sites, I was just imploding. And he turned to me and this, this really helped to sort of change my perspective on things. He said, Ross, in the special forces, we're not seeing how well you can win, we're seeing how well you can lose. Time and time again. I said, well, what do you mean? He goes, there was one particular exercise that we did.

• 2:16:15Speaker 01

  Basically you're on the assault bike, heart rate over 180 and they're checking heart rate monitor. So you are redlining, coughing up a lung, breathing. They get you off the assault bike, they take you into a room. There's a guy there who's like six foot six, just huge. And then there's a door behind him and they say, okay, you need to get past him, behind that door. Your friends, your platoon regiment are over the other side of the door. So they just run in, this guy's six foot six is there just holding you. And then there's a guy with a clipboard in the corner. Guy with clipboard, gives a nod. Bang, knocks them clean out. He's out cold. The next thing he knows, he's been brought back round with smelling salts and he gets up like that and there's in his face going, "Do you wanna quit? Do you wanna quit?" And my friend at the time was just like, "No, no, I'm good." And they said they let him up. He goes again, starts wrestling.

• 2:17:00Speaker 01

  This massive six foot six, waits for the signal, guy with a clipboard nods. Bang, knocked down again. Did it three times, brought them back round. And then, and then they go, "Okay, you passed, you passed." What was interesting is my friend said one guy actually made it past and got to the door, only to find it was bolted shut. You were, you were never going to win, like ever, but that's not what they were testing. They were testing your ability to lose time and time again.

• 2:17:25Speaker 02

  Oh, that's terrible for you.

• 2:17:27Speaker 01

  It's not, it's bad, but, but that idea of just sheer adversity training.

• 2:17:32Speaker 02

  The idea is interesting. However, concussions, repeated concussions can change a person's life.

• 2:17:36Speaker 01

  For sure, yeah.

• 2:17:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, you knock a guy out, a big giant guy knocks you out three times, that's a terrible idea.

• 2:17:41Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 2:17:42Speaker 02

  You sure they was punching them? Who's punching them in the face?

• 2:17:44Speaker 01

  I, the, the way that the story was told to me, yeah. I know. That, I mean, there's some brutal selections, some of my friends in the special forces, some of the stories they tell me about selection, I'm like, that is brutal. But then you, you realize that's why they're mentally bulletproof.

• 2:17:56Speaker 02

  Do you know who Mr. Ballin is on YouTube?

• 2:17:59Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:18:00Speaker 02

  A really interesting guy. Uh, he's got a, a great YouTube channel where he tells all these crazy, spooky mystery stories, but he's a Navy SEAL. And a former Navy SEAL. And one of the things that he said about, um, what the people that make it through BUDS, two people that do really well, two groups of people, one of them is wrestlers. Because they're just mentally tough. They're like, they're, they're training and constantly being dehydrated and tired and just pushing and, and taking satisfaction being the most miserable. That's one of the things that wrestlers do. They take satisfaction suffering the most. They do really well and then water polo players.

• 2:18:35Speaker 01

  Hmm, yeah, yeah.

• 2:18:37Speaker 02

  And then I was like, wow, why water polo? And then I didn't know that water polo players never touch the ground. They're constantly treading water while they're playing that fucking game. Well, you have to be in insane shape to be in water polo. I never would have thought of water polo.

• 2:18:52Speaker 01

  That was my background, by the way.

• 2:18:53Speaker 02

  I didn't?

• 2:18:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I played England schoolboys all the way through to international.

• 2:18:56Speaker 02

  Well, that makes sense.

• 2:18:58Speaker 01

  No, no, no, but I love that you brought that up because it's, it's absolutely true. Again, there's, um, there's a famous, very famous match. It was basically called Blood in the Water and it was the Hungarians versus the Soviets and they, there was, they were at war. Yeah, so they were, they were actually at war. The Hungarians were training under gunfire, bombs going off and everything. They then drew each other. I can't remember the name. It might have been the Melbourne Olympics, I believe, in the semifinals. They drew each other. There's famous pictures where basically the water just went red. Blood in the water, that's what it was called, the match. And they just go at it.

• 2:19:31Speaker 02

  So they were at war with each other in real life?

• 2:19:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then they drew each other.

• 2:19:35Speaker 02

  So the Hungarians were at war with the Russians and then they went to war in volleyball, in water polo?

• 2:19:40Speaker 01

  In water polo. They got, yeah, they got put against each other and they just go at it. It's nuts. I mean, even like, you can't see, but under my tongue, it's all a little bit of a mess under there. Cause I remember I was playing water polo. Um, we were in the south of France. I come over the top like that and as I do, I catch an elbow and I just like bite down. My tongue must have been out and so it cut my tongue in half. And then I remember, you then have to defend, it's kind of like basketball, constantly back and forth like that. It's that quick.

• 2:20:05Speaker 02

  Why you got a mouthful of blood?

• 2:20:07Speaker 01

  Oh, there we go. Yeah.

• 2:20:09Speaker 02

  Blood in the water.

• 2:20:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:20:11Speaker 02

  Wow. So they're just fighting each other?

• 2:20:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think Hungary won, I believe four nil.

• 2:20:16Speaker 02

  You have to be in insane shape.

• 2:20:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:20:19Speaker 02

  To do that, that game.

• 2:20:20Speaker 01

  They're trained, I always found this interesting, cause I made the England schoolboy squad, um, at thirteen and I was playing against under eighteen. So I was, I was the wrong side of puberty. And I was just like playing against these just like men who were trained in like water jiu-jitsu. So I would throw a punch and then I'd just be under the water while I'm going.

• 2:20:38Speaker 02

  You fight all the time in that?

• 2:20:40Speaker 01

  All the time.

• 2:20:40Speaker 02

  So it's like hockey?

• 2:20:41Speaker 01

  It's exactly, yeah.

• 2:20:42Speaker 02

  Hockey in the water?

• 2:20:43Speaker 01

  It's exactly that. Yeah, yeah. So one guy's holding me down.

• 2:20:46Speaker 02

  That might be my new favorite sport. Are they still allowed to fight?

• 2:20:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. If you put on YouTube, just put underwater fights, water polo, just put it on and they'll have cameras at the Olympics. And it's absolutely, I mean, also.

• 2:20:55Speaker 02

  In the Olympics currently, you're still allowed to fight?

• 2:20:57Speaker 01

  For sure. Yeah, yeah. I mean, look, some of the women's.

• 2:20:59Speaker 02

  Are they allowed to fight in the Olympics in hockey?

• 2:21:01Speaker 01

  Oh, I don't know.

• 2:21:03Speaker 02

  That's weak. Weak sauce. That's part of the game.

• 2:21:07Speaker 01

  It's, but I mean, I come.

• 2:21:09Speaker 02

  They have boxing. They have boxing in the Olympics and you won't let people fight in hockey? That's wa, that's whack.

• 2:21:14Speaker 01

  Agreed. But I, yeah, so back to my tongue. I come over the top.

• 2:21:17Speaker 02

  What'd you say, Jimmy?

• 2:21:18Speaker 04

  Strictly prohibited in the Olympics.

• 2:21:21Speaker 02

  Strictly?

• 2:21:21Speaker 01

  Certainly not in water polo. You still see it. And the women's.

• 2:21:24Speaker 02

  So in water polo, they're still, they still get after it?

• 2:21:26Speaker 01

  The women's game's worse as well, cause obviously they've got more of a suit to grab hold of as well.

• 2:21:29Speaker 02

  Oh, pulling boobs out.

• 2:21:31Speaker 01

  There are boobs that come out. There are indeed. But I, yeah, come over the top, bang, take base in it and it splits my tongue in half. And I remember I then sprinted back to defend, cause they were, Ross, defend, defend. So I sprint all the way back and you can imagine now, blood is just pumping around my body. My heart is going nuts. And I stop and there's just blood everywhere, like the whole water has just turned red around me. But I don't notice. I think it's somebody else. So I go, guys, guys, stop, stop. Someone's been hit. And then I look and everyone in the stands is looking at me. And as they did, I remember, it's almost like, you know, when you've got like toffee or something in your mouth, stuck in your teeth? Well, that was my tongue. So I was like, I was going like, trying to spit whatever it was out. And then I looked and it was just flapping.

• 2:22:14Speaker 01

  And they were like, no, no, no, you're done. And I got out. They sewed it up. That's why it's a mess underneath.

• 2:22:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. How long does that take to heal?

• 2:22:21Speaker 01

  Well, weirdly, the tongue heals really quickly. Yeah. So it wasn't, wasn't too long. I was, I was good in about a week. Yeah.

• 2:22:26Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 2:22:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was pretty bad. But it's the same in Malta as well. So it's, it's huge in Malta. Um, but out there, they will just put golds in the middle of the sea and just start playing. So we would go out and, and if you're in gold and jellyfish come over, that is, that is just part of the game.

• 2:22:42Speaker 02

  Warrior people. Let me see, uh, water polo fights.

• 2:22:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, I couldn't, I'm on, it's not that.

• 2:22:47Speaker 02

  Not that exciting?

• 2:22:48Speaker 04

  Nah, it's tough to see.

• 2:22:49Speaker 02

  We'd have to curate, find a good one.

• 2:22:51Speaker 04

  It's a lot of dudes in really small bathing suits. It's moving very slowly, cause it's underwater.

• 2:22:58Speaker 02

  Right. Let me see.

• 2:22:59Speaker 04

  And it's also in slow motion.

• 2:23:00Speaker 02

  Oh, it's slow mo. Also they're showing these guys hitting each other in slow mo.

• 2:23:04Speaker 04

  It's really hard to catch it, I think, as fast movement's happening, cause.

• 2:23:08Speaker 02

  It's just the amount of endurance that you have to have to play a game like this. How long are your periods? Like, how long are you playing for?

• 2:23:16Speaker 01

  Depends on the age, but yeah, four, four, four, four minute quarters, four, five minute quarters.

• 2:23:20Speaker 02

  So for four minutes, you're treading water and sprinting?

• 2:23:24Speaker 01

  Hmm. It's weird. You're, you're exactly right. It's swimming mixed with BJJ.

• 2:23:29Speaker 02

  Whoa, people are fighting.

• 2:23:31Speaker 01

  It's swimming mixed with like, yeah, B, I mean, Hungary are amazing.

• 2:23:34Speaker 02

  Oh, they're smacking each other in the face and shit? Oh, the guy's choking that guy. Oh, they literally hold on to each other.

• 2:23:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:23:40Speaker 02

  And then they swing it. Oh, this is crazy.

• 2:23:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, there we go.

• 2:23:43Speaker 02

  Oh my God, this is cra, oh my God, this is crazy.

• 2:23:46Speaker 01

  It's pretty standard. This is just, yeah.

• 2:23:48Speaker 02

  This is normal.

• 2:23:48Speaker 01

  At a local competition, that's pretty standard.

• 2:23:50Speaker 02

  No wonder why these guys make good seals.

• 2:23:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. It's, it's, you're literally drown-proofing yourself. Like, there's sometimes, when I'm caught in an Arctic storm, I'm like, it's not as bad, as bad as playing Hungary. Like, the amount, the amount of times I was, I was so close to drowning. It was nuts.

• 2:24:07Speaker 02

  Crazy.

• 2:24:08Speaker 01

  And I think especially as well, I, I was always so young, like I said, I made the under eighteen England schoolboys team when I was thirteen. So I was the wrong side of puberty and, and we were playing against Malta at the time and they were just like big, like beers, playing against Hungary. And I just learned very quickly to be comfortable being uncomfortable. You know, that, that Justin Gagey's stress inoculation training. Ever since, when I swim now and they're like, Ross is an Arctic storm, I go, yeah, still got my tongue.

• 2:24:35Speaker 02

  Fuck, dude.

• 2:24:36Speaker 01

  Not too bad.

• 2:24:38Speaker 02

  You know, we were talking about, uh, Carlos Prates in that video that I was watching about the fighting nerds, about how the guy like emulates, uh, animals and stuff. One of the things that they were talking about us, how Carlos had a losing record early in his career. He's like, or close to, it's like five wins, four losses or something like that. He wasn't doing well, the first nine fights of his career. And then he decides to go to Thailand and he flies to Thailand. And the only way to make any money in Thailand is you have to fight. So he winds up fighting like every week. So he fights like six times in a month and he's like fighting constantly. But because of that constant fighting, then he gets like really accustomed and calm fighting. He has over a hundred Muay Thai fights. So he's fighting all the time and it just becomes relaxed to him.

• 2:25:20Speaker 02

  And so when you see him fight, he's always smiling and having fun in there. It's cause he's fought so many times that he's sort of, that fear of whatever that experience is like, for most people, it's like this daunting thing. They lock the cage door, holy shit. This guy is smoking cigarettes the week of the fight. Smoking cigarettes the day of the fight, drinking, partying. Just dead relaxed when he gets in there and fucking everybody up. Like literally, world-class fighters like Jack Delamadellena, who was the former world champion, beat the fuck out of him at, in, at his, in his home country of Australia. Just beats his ass in, in a like, a ferocious way. Where you're watching like, wow, like the level, the gap between them is so vast.

• 2:26:05Speaker 02

  And he's just essentially a product of that, of just like being in the fire for so long. You just get forged, like constantly fighting.

• 2:26:15Speaker 01

  See, I love that. That goes back to like the ancient Stoics. Epictetus famously, I love this term, he said getting wintered. He said that wars were fought in the summer, but what you do in the winter has a profound impact on how well-prepared you'd be. So they would just be doing a cold, hard winter's training. The Spartans as well famously would be given essentially a loincloth and just been told to endure the winter to fight, you know, for your food. You know, so you just create these crazy warriors. And I think now we're getting modern versions. I think the, the closest, you know, our mutual friend Liam Harrison, but he's just, he's wired different, you know?

• 2:26:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, I said, I told him he fights like he has rabies.

• 2:26:51Speaker 01

  Absolutely, that's the best way to put it.

• 2:26:55Speaker 02

  He's like a little demon.

• 2:26:57Speaker 01

  But what I love about Liam as well, if anyone's ever spent any time around him, and he won't mind me saying this, but he's like vibrating. He's definitely got ADHD, but now there's so many studies with fighters saying those with ADHD actually process things so much quicker.

• 2:27:11Speaker 02

  I don't even believe in ADHD.

• 2:27:14Speaker 01

  Oh, you don't?

• 2:27:14Speaker 02

  No, I don't think it's a disease.

• 2:27:16Speaker 01

  Or that your dopamine works differently.

• 2:27:17Speaker 02

  I don't think it's a disorder. I think it's a superpower. I think we are conditioning children to sit in a classroom and do something that's insanely boring. And some people can endure it and God bless them. And some people are not designed for it and I'm one of them. And I don't think ADHD is a problem at all.

• 2:27:31Speaker 01

  Oh, I agree. Not a problem, yeah.

• 2:27:32Speaker 02

  I think it's a superpower. I think it gives you the ability to concentrate on things that you love to an extent that most people cannot fathom.

• 2:27:40Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 2:27:40Speaker 02

  You get obsessed at things. I could play pool for 10 hours in a row and I don't eat. I just drink coffee and play pool and I don't have any problem with that. And everybody else wants to quit. I want to keep going forever. That's ADHD.

• 2:27:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:27:52Speaker 02

  And I see it in other people that are great at things. Gordon Ryan, for sure, he's got it. He fucking trains 365 days a year. It's both things. It's discipline, but it's also this obsession that comes from. If you were in school, they would say you have a disorder. There's something wrong with you. Why can't you sit down, do this boring shit all day? Well, because I don't like that. But if you sit those kids down in front of a computer and let them play video games, look at all the concentration they have. Look at all the focus they have. Look at how locked in they are in what they're doing. I don't believe in it. I believe it's a thing. I don't believe it's a disorder. And by the way, I'm not unsympathetic to the varying degrees that people suffer from all sorts of disorders. I think for some people, it probably is some sort of a real genuine issue, right?

• 2:28:35Speaker 02

  Where they can't focus it and it's not something they can concentrate on other things that they love. They're just constantly scattered. I'm not talking about that. I think it's entirely over diagnosed. And I think there's a lot of people that are just people that are just not wired to follow the standard norm of what I think is a very boring structure of most schoolwork and most, most school. Like, most of what you have to endure when you're a young kid is sitting down when you have the most energy. You just woke up, okay? You're fully rested. You ate breakfast. It's probably filled with sugar and you're just fucking piping. You're sitting in that chair going, Jesus Christ, I don't give a fuck about Hitler. Why am I in this class worrying about World War II?

• 2:29:18Speaker 02

  I'm 10. I want to go outside. I want to play ball. I want to run around with my friends. I want to do fun things. This sucks. And they'll tell you, you need to get on Ritalin. You know, they'll say Billy can't concentrate. Billy doesn't know how to count.

• 2:29:31Speaker 01

  I completely, because I think to that point, exactly. Friends of mine have said, like Ross, you have, you know, definitely traits of ADHD. And again, I'm the same as you. I don't like that term because I always just say my dopamine works a little bit differently. And what I mean by that sometimes as well is even understanding the sort of biochemistry on 400 milligrams of caffeine and then maybe like Cognizin for acetylcholine as well. So I'm playing.

• 2:29:52Speaker 02

  What is Cognizin?

• 2:29:53Speaker 01

  It basically is a supplement, a nootropic that will positively interact with acetylcholine, which is a neurotransmitter that is less jacked up. You're just kind of dialed in and focused. That and Alpha GPC. If I take that combination, I am just dialed in and just swimming every single stroke. I'm just there like going, good, high elbow, good.

• 2:30:16Speaker 02

  Are you constantly filling up in that stuff? Are you like replenishing your stock as you're swimming?

• 2:30:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, Alpha GPC, you, I know Huberman talks about, you have to cycle that. So that I will. But certainly with caffeine, Cognizin, I'll be having that pretty much on most swims.

• 2:30:30Speaker 02

  Alpha GPC you have to cycle in terms of like, how often can you take it?

• 2:30:33Speaker 01

  Huberman talks about every two days and then three days off, I think, that sort of cycle. Yeah, you can build up a very quick tolerance to it.

• 2:30:39Speaker 02

  Interesting. Two days and then three days off. But this other stuff, Cognizin, you said, so what is in that?

• 2:30:45Speaker 01

  So that's the ingredient, that's the nootropic. I hope I'm getting this right.

• 2:30:48Speaker 02

  So it is an actual, it's not a combination of things?

• 2:30:51Speaker 01

  And that affects acetylcholine, which is amazing just for their just focus.

• 2:30:55Speaker 02

  Do you ever take acetylcholine by itself?

• 2:30:57Speaker 01

  No, so that's the neurotransmitter.

• 2:30:58Speaker 02

  Or Alpha GPC, do you ever take that?

• 2:31:00Speaker 01

  Alpha, yeah, Alpha GPC, yeah, there you go.

• 2:31:02Speaker 02

  So it's a patented branded form of citicoline. A natural brain nutrient and nootropic ingredient used in dietary supplements, energy drinks and functional beverages. I like that term. Functional beverages. Isn't everything beverage functional? You know, you're getting hydrated, you're getting drunk, you're getting caffeinated. These are functional.

• 2:31:23Speaker 01

  But will you do that as well? Whether you're training or dialed in on something, you'll know how your brain runs. You'll say, okay, I've got to, yeah.

• 2:31:29Speaker 02

  You know what really helps me is creatine. Creatine's a big one. And I only become aware of that over the last, I don't know, few years or so, that how much of an effect it has on mental focus. And one of the things that they've shown is people with sleep deprivation, that when you have, were sleep deprived, when you take, I think it's 10 or 20 milligrams. It's a lot, right?

• 2:31:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:31:52Speaker 02

  20? Is it 20 grams? Is it? So whatever it is, I believe it's 20 grams or above, whatever it is. Whatever the, let's find out what the number is just so we can help people.

• 2:32:02Speaker 01

  I think it's 20, yeah.

• 2:32:04Speaker 02

  It severely mitigates the negative aspects of sleep deprivation in terms of cognitive function, memory, all those different things. And I find that. You know, I've done a bunch of podcasts where, you know, like I said, I play pool. I have a real problem. And sometimes I'll come home from the comedy club and it'll be, you know, midnight and I'm wired from, you know, hanging out and

• 2:32:24Speaker 01

  Oh, 25 30?

• 2:32:24Speaker 02

  25 30 grams for many adults.

• 2:32:27Speaker 01

  That's a small study.

• 2:32:28Speaker 02

  Strongest acute study is large, okay. Not a normal daily maintenance dose. Okay, so, so if you're tired, take 25 to 30 grams. And then that's the response. And normally I take 10 or 20. That's my normal.

• 2:32:43Speaker 01

  And that's cognitively, then you'll be back to baseline?

• 2:32:47Speaker 02

  Allegedly. It's hard to know. You know, I mean, we all vary daily. I have days where I come in, I'm like, ooh, I'm firing today. And then other days where I'm like, I can't even remember words. Like, how the fuck am I doing this for a living?

• 2:32:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:32:59Speaker 02

  You know, your brain is very, it's like the fucking earth's temperature. It fucking fluctuates a lot.

• 2:33:05Speaker 01

  That is exactly it. And certainly on my longer swims now, creatine, I actually didn't do that during the Yukon Swim. So weirdly, there's just a part of me that does want to go back just to actually trial that because towards the end of the Yukon Swim, I was in pieces. So I would love to see if I could actually, you know, supplement to go that much further. And I think creatine was one that I would love to add to the arsenal.

• 2:33:25Speaker 02

  So here's what Jamie just pulled up. It says, as part of the study, 15 test subjects were kept awake overnight and had to solve cognitive tasks during this time. Sleep deprivation tends to change, leads rather to changes in brain metabolism that promote the cellular uptake of creatine. Beforehand, the test subjects have received a high single dose of creatine, an important metabolic product that is found in food and can also be produced by the body itself. Three hours after taking the creatine, a positive effect on the brain metabolism and cognitive performance of the test subjects could already be observed. The effect reached its peak after four hours and lasted up to nine hours. In particular, the improvements in processing capacity and short-term memory were seen. The results suggested that a single but high dose of creatine enhances thinking capacity

• 2:34:10Speaker 02

  and causes changing, changes rather, in the brain's energy reserves during sleep deprivation. I wonder what it does if you're not sleep deprived. Like, what if you're a kid and you have to take your ACTs or something like that? Like, what would that do for you?

• 2:34:24Speaker 01

  That is interesting. Because I think that's the next frontier almost as well. Like, I think we've known.

• 2:34:29Speaker 02

  Small test subject, right? But it's still, if you get a significant result from 15 people and you can measure the changes. I'd like to see it on a large study, but it's interesting.

• 2:34:39Speaker 01

  What are a lot of the athletes using now in the OC supplement wise? Creatine's one of them.

• 2:34:42Speaker 02

  Creatine's for sure one of them. But the issue with creatine is also it helps you put a mass on and a lot of these guys are trying to lose weight. So I don't know what, what they're doing in terms of like, there's some guys that are extreme weight cutters. There's guys that are cutting, you know, 20 pounds, 30 pounds, the week of the fight. It's really, and rehydrating to a ridiculous extent, like before the fight. Like Alex Pereira is the greatest example. Alex would gain 40 pounds when he was fighting at 185 pounds. So he's fighting at 185 and he would weigh in on fight day at 225, 226, which is nuts.

• 2:35:19Speaker 01

  I always love Rob Whitaker. He's like, who let this guy in?

• 2:35:21Speaker 04

  Very strange. So it's also saying, don't take that much.

• 2:35:24Speaker 02

  Right. Don't take that much.

• 2:35:26Speaker 04

  Even once, it says.

• 2:35:27Speaker 02

  Oh, even once it's bad?

• 2:35:28Speaker 04

  Because it could put a heavy strain on the kidneys.

• 2:35:29Speaker 02

  It says for the time being, however, it's not advisable for people to take such a high dose of creatine at home, at home as high doses of the substance, put a heavy strain on the kidneys and can cause health risks. I wonder if you could mitigate that strain by hyper.

• 2:35:44Speaker 04

  It said it was temporary too.

• 2:35:46Speaker 02

  It's temporary. Yeah, for sure. It says four hours. But what's temporary?

• 2:35:50Speaker 04

  The, the gain of cognitive effects?

• 2:35:54Speaker 02

  Well, for the large dose, right? For sleep deprived people.

• 2:35:57Speaker 04

  That's just, that seems risky.

• 2:35:58Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah. I mean, I don't think, but I think one dose is probably akin to one night of drinking. Like, I don't think it's that bad. I think, I think the real problem is you can't take that amount every day. Like, what is, I know people that take 20 grams a day though.

• 2:36:15Speaker 02

  There's so many people though that are just redlining. And the thing is, it's like, their, their biology might be different than your biology. You know, some people like, they don't have a problem drinking every day. Like Shane Gillis can just drink every day and he's, he got his liver tested. He's fine. And we were all like, what?

• 2:36:32Speaker 01

  I'm fascinated by this. Like I said, for future swims, I think, you know, certainly at forty one years old, I'm kind of as fit as I'm gonna be, you know, is that's this is the new frontier for me.

• 2:36:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:36:42Speaker 01

  You know, looking at new tropics. Um, I know where.

• 2:36:45Speaker 02

  I bet hypoxia training too.

• 2:36:47Speaker 01

  You think? Yeah, that could add, yeah.

• 2:36:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I really do. I think it just it raises your capacity. I think it changes the red blood cell count in your body.

• 2:36:56Speaker 01

  That's it, yeah.

• 2:36:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, like just like EPO does, right?

• 2:36:59Speaker 01

  Aggregation of marginal gains. Now I'm just at a point where I'm like, right, where can I just get like one percent here, there?

• 2:37:04Speaker 02

  Are you using sauna regularly?

• 2:37:06Speaker 01

  Not as often as should be, yeah.

• 2:37:07Speaker 02

  That should be a daily for you.

• 2:37:09Speaker 01

  You think? And even doing my cardio in there as well.

• 2:37:11Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, you can. I mean, that's one of the aspects of the exhaust chamber. So they do two different types of training in it. One type of training is high altitude, the other type is high heat. So I'll do sessions in there at a hundred degrees. And so, yeah, and so, but it's not high altitude. It's like, it's regular altitude. It's counterproductive to do the two of them together.

• 2:37:33Speaker 01

  Yep, yep, yep, yep. Yeah, because it's blood plasma.

• 2:37:35Speaker 02

  According to the guys who are smart.

• 2:37:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:37:38Speaker 02

  The, the, the thing you're doing is when you are at high altitude, your heartbeat is naturally lower. It's difficult to get your heartbeat that high. Because there's not no oxygen in the air. When you're at high heat, your heart rate is high immediately. Like, one of the things that I do, I'll do bag work, I do heavy bag rounds, and then after the rounds, I jump right into the sauna. So I go from being exhausted, I give myself, just so I'm not dying, so I could breathe normal, like at the end of the rounds, I'm usually like really breathing heavy. I drink some electrolytes. I always bring a big sixty four ounce jug of water with ice and electrolytes in it.

• 2:38:17Speaker 02

  And then I go on a hundred and ninety six degrees and I sit in there for twenty, twenty five minutes and I wear one of those straps. One of those um, heart rate monitors and my shit will be at like one forty seven, one forty eight, the entire time I'm sitting there. Because I never, it never got to go down. So it's jacked up from the workout, right? And then I go right in and I might be at a hundred when I step in there and it goes right back up, right back up. So like ten, fifteen minutes in there, I'm just sitting there and I'm at one, especially when I start doing heavy stretches, which is why I do a lot of. I find that you can do stretches when you're in that one hundred and ninety five degree, one hundred and ninety six degree heat, that you're just not gonna be able to pull off.

• 2:38:58Speaker 02

  And so I force my tissue, it is, force it into position and hold it and that really jacks your heart rate up. Then I'll get into the one fifties.

• 2:39:08Speaker 01

  Because I, I, I love, to go on a bit of a tangent as well, like now, there's so many good meta studies on, so studies of lots of studies of ultra endurance athletes. But some of the best now, these aren't guys just like hanging in there, these guys are winning between thirty five up to fifty. You know, those like grisly old guys and old women who are just amazing.

• 2:39:26Speaker 02

  Don't you think that's mental though? Like your, your mind gets harder as you get older.

• 2:39:30Speaker 01

  This is exactly what I was about to jump on. So I think there's a few things. One is capillary density, mitochondrial efficiency, that you only get after like years and years and years. So it's like when you're younger, VO two lactic threshold, elasticity of tendons, all of those things absolutely are better when you're younger. And that's why you see so many hundred meter, you know, champions and sprinters, they're always younger. But now, I think all of those things that you're talking about now, heat adaptation, hyperbaric chambers, everything like that, hypoxic chambers, sorry. Everything like that is just trying to create, I think now, a new generation of older athletes. And we're even seeing it, thirty nine years old Alex Pereira?

• 2:40:07Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:40:07Speaker 01

  Yoel Merro, forty nine?

• 2:40:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, but he is, he's off the charts.

• 2:40:12Speaker 01

  He makes no sense.

• 2:40:14Speaker 02

  That's an outlier. He's, he's an outlier. He's another guy.

• 2:40:17Speaker 01

  He is, yeah.

• 2:40:18Speaker 02

  He's so unusual. When you look at him, he doesn't seem like he's aging. It's, it's insane. You know, and he's still moves like a cat at forty nine years old. Did you see his bare knuckle fight that he had with Darren Till? Crazy.

• 2:40:30Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:40:31Speaker 02

  Knocked Darren Till down. Arguably could have won that fight.

• 2:40:33Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:40:34Speaker 02

  You know, it was a very close fight, but arguably you could have given the, a lot of people online thought Yoel won that fight. Forty nine.

• 2:40:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I think we're seeing it across the board now as well, like Kipchoge won the very recent marathon, was it Melbourne? I can't remember. You got Messi, you got Ronaldo, Messi's only just retired, Ronaldo, LeBron. I think LeBron makes no sense. Because everything that I just described there, your proportion of fast twitch fibers reduces as you get older, elasticity of tendons.

• 2:40:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:41:00Speaker 01

  How? So I understand if you're Messi, who's just amazing, his vision of the game and everything, he can sit there in midfield just spraying the ball. But LeBron makes no sense.

• 2:41:09Speaker 02

  LeBron is meticulous in his rehabilitation, meticulous. He spends an incredible amount of time, like famously spends millions of dollars just on rehabilitating his body every year, on massage and all different therapies and, I mean, he's doing everything. And I'm sure, I don't know what the rules are in the NBA with peptides and all that other jazz, but I'm sure he's on all that stuff too.

• 2:41:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:41:30Speaker 02

  I mean, if he's not, I'd be stunned. Like, why wouldn't you be? That's crazy. You know, why wouldn't you be on BPC one five seven and TB five hundred? And if you're allowed to be, you should definitely be on testosterone and definitely be on some sort of human growth hormone. Either something that pumps it up like some morelin, which like naturally makes your body produce more testosterone or more human growth hormone. Something that allows his body to regenerate tissue and heal quicker. He has to be on something. I mean, I would imagine, otherwise it's crazy that he could perform. Because one of the things that we talk about a lot, or I talk about a lot with Cyril Gahn, who's the EOC heavyweight champion, is that Cyril has a bad run at basketball.

• 2:42:12Speaker 02

  And I think that's a factor because I think his movement, his ability to move, his, it's like basketball, you're doing plyometrics all the time.

• 2:42:21Speaker 04

  Peptides are banned in the NBA.

• 2:42:22Speaker 02

  What's the rules? Synthetic and growth hormone releasing peptides are banned in the NBA. Are they testing them? What is banned? Growth hormone releasing peptides, growth hormone, uh, secretagogues, how do you say that word? Secretagogues? Secretagogues and other synthetic compounds designed to stimulate growth hormone or enhance recovery are strictly prohibited. But what about uh, BPC one five seven?

• 2:42:48Speaker 04

  Specifically that one.

• 2:42:49Speaker 01

  BPC one five seven was weird because it was allowed by water and then it was banned.

• 2:42:53Speaker 02

  It should be allowed. All it does is regenerate tissue, or rather, help heal tissue. It's banned. Banned in the NBA, is classified as an unapproved substance on the world anti doping agency's prohibited list. And follows broader anti doping policies against unapproved peptides and experimental drugs. Listen, man, there's zero studies that show there's any negative effects of BPC one five seven. And there's a lot of at least anecdotal evidence, first and foremost, that it's very beneficial for people recovering from injuries. But then there's others, also studies that indicate that it really is helpful for people. So someone was suspended.

• 2:43:30Speaker 04

  No, I was looking this up because uh, last year, this player is on the Lakers, Luka Doncic, very famously got hurt right before the playoffs started. And he went to Spain to get treated and did not get better. And what that treatment was, was not really publicly talked about. People were saying, you know, get him on stem cells, get him on BPC one five seven, get him back, get him back so he can play. That, I don't know if, if they are doing it, they have to take time off so they can hide, you know, from tests or whatever it is.

• 2:43:55Speaker 02

  Sort of like Connor did when he broke his leg, right? He got out of the doping pool.

• 2:43:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:43:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then he got jacked. And they go fucking jacked.

• 2:44:03Speaker 01

  They came Wolverine.

• 2:44:04Speaker 02

  Super jacked, looked like you. All of a sudden he weighed two hundred and twenty pounds, fucking jacked. I don't know if he got that big, but. Point is, like, I think uh, at least peptides that help injuries. Listen, you're dealing with a sport where your primary goal is to create an injury on your opponent. And you're practicing injuring each other all day long, like you're gonna get injuries. And anything that would help these athletes get to the finish line, like get to the cage in reasonable health, because they're always banged up. Like whenever you see, even at a world championship level, you see a guy, he looks awesome, guarantee that guy's dealing with some shit. Guarantee that guy's got a sore hand, a fucked up shoulders, knee hurts, something's wrong.

• 2:44:44Speaker 02

  There's no way you get through a twelve week camp with a bunch of fucking trained assassins and you don't get banged up. You're getting banged up. And BPC one five seven would help those people. But they're also doing, there's a lot of stuff these guys are doing now. A lot of guys are invested in hyperbaric chambers. They're doing a lot of hyperbaric therapy, which really does accelerate uh, healing uh, from injuries. And just general, just general overall recovery from just life itself. I mean, it's incredible.

• 2:45:14Speaker 01

  They were amazing for me. Like we were talking about earlier, when I tore most of the tendons in my rotator cuff, that was after the Yukon. And the doctor was like, how, how did you not know? And I was like, well, I had hypothermia and I was trying to dodge bears.

• 2:45:28Speaker 01

  I had other stuff on my mind at the time.

• 2:45:31Speaker 02

  If I was a doctor, I'd be so pumped to talk to you, I'd be like, whoa, like, look, this is an interesting study.

• 2:45:37Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 2:45:38Speaker 02

  Like, what? What did you say?

• 2:45:41Speaker 01

  But, but it was mu, stem cells were, were amazing. And then hyperbaric, red light therapy, I did everything. And that got me back to the start line, uh, ready for Iceland. Um, I think without it, I might have needed them reattached with surgery. So that's how good they were for me.

• 2:45:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's extraordinary what they can do now and it keeps getting better. And, you know, in this country, there's this battle between pharmaceutical drug companies that want to, they want to patent these peptides and they want to profit off of them. And then there's also a lot of people who don't want people taking these therapies because it will cost them money in terms of the amount of orthopedic surgeries they get. That's a real thing and they have influence. And this, it's a real problem. And, and unfortunately, people are willing to sacrifice the greater health and recovery of the entire population for their own personal gain. And that's dark but accurate.

• 2:46:31Speaker 01

  Agreed, yeah.

• 2:46:31Speaker 02

  And if we were really smart, we would be investing incredible amount of money into studying these things. And there's not just that, they're helping people with neurological conditions, they're helping people recover from like Parkinson syndrome or Parkinson symptoms. You know, they're, they're, they're doing them intranasally for people that have lung disorders. Like, there's a lot of like really good work that's being done with stem cells. Does it mean they all are the same and they all work great? No, that's like, they're shady places. This is also part of the problem. Like, if you're traveling to some godforsaken part of the world to go do this therapy because it's not legal in America. Okay, well, you gotta be real careful where you're going, you know? There's some places like the CPI, which is in Tijuana, it's very ethical.

• 2:47:16Speaker 02

  And they, they do everything really great, but there's other places where I've heard people get infected, they have like horrible disease, you know, they they get staph infections and wind up almost paralyzed. A lot of fucked up things can happen when you're doing this stuff if you don't go to a good place.

• 2:47:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:47:31Speaker 02

  But it, the bottom line is though, that's a problem with all medical interventions. That's a problem with surgery. That's a problem with like, it's a big, one of the main killers in this country, I think, is, we, we talked about this recently. It's like the number three killer in this country is medical mishaps. Like, it is either misdiagnosis or bad treatment or some sort of a mistake that someone makes.

• 2:47:58Speaker 02

  It's a problem, you know, so it's a pro- it's like, human beings are very vulnerable. And, you know, so it's not a cure-all, but it is a very promising therapy. And for people that have had incredible results, and I'm one of them, from stem cells, like, I'm screaming from the rooftops, like, hey, let's not just throw the baby out with the bathwater with this stuff. This should be, you should, we could help a lot of folks who have a lot of, like, real serious problems with this shit.

• 2:48:24Speaker 01

  That's what they said to me. They were like, Ross, you know, this would have been a death sentence for your career. You know, you just swam around Great Britain, you've just done the Yukon, you're good, you're done, you know, whereas it's amazing now, I've seen it, that it's just managed to extend my career, you know, just a little bit more. I think that's-

• 2:48:38Speaker 02

  And just also, for people that aren't professional athletes, just extend your health.

• 2:48:42Speaker 01

  A hundred percent.

• 2:48:42Speaker 02

  Like, so many people that have had, like, these injuries, like, a good friend of mine had a knee problem, and, you know, he's not an athlete, he's just a guy who runs, and his knee was in pain all the time. I brought him into waistwell, he got a shot in his knee, this is two years ago, and he's like, I run all the time, it never bothers me now. I'm like, that's nuts, man. That didn't exist before.

• 2:49:00Speaker 01

  Agreed, yeah.

• 2:49:01Speaker 02

  That didn't exist.

• 2:49:02Speaker 01

  Agreed.

• 2:49:02Speaker 02

  And I think this is just the beginning, I think, the beginning of this stuff. They keep coming out with new innovations and, and new therapies that are even more effective, new stem cells being one of the greatest ones that's more recent.

• 2:49:16Speaker 01

  I agree, I agree.

• 2:49:16Speaker 02

  They need more studies, more stuff, more work. This is gonna help a lot of fucking people, man, and, you know, we have to be really careful as to what influence we're receiving, as to why this is a bad thing. You know, I think this is a real problem in this country in particular, because this country is, like, so ate up with money. You know, money influences so many narratives in this country, it distorts reality, and you're looking at everything through a funhouse mirror lens, you know, it's, it's hard to tell what's what.

• 2:49:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:49:44Speaker 02

  What's good for you, what's bad for, what should be recommended, what should be never taken, you know?

• 2:49:49Speaker 01

  My hospital visit, on that note, was, was so bad at the end. The rotator cuffs was also, like, the-

• 2:49:54Speaker 02

  How bad was the food?

• 2:49:55Speaker 01

  It was pretty good, actually.

• 2:49:56Speaker 02

  Really?

• 2:49:56Speaker 01

  It was in Canada, in the Yukon, it was pretty good.

• 2:49:58Speaker 02

  Oh, there you go.

• 2:49:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, pancakes, amazing.

• 2:49:59Speaker 02

  They give you moose meat, moose meat and pancakes?

• 2:50:01Speaker 01

  Genuinely did, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:50:02Speaker 02

  Did they give you moose?

• 2:50:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, and jerky as well.

• 2:50:04Speaker 02

  Really?

• 2:50:04Speaker 01

  Oh, it was so good.

• 2:50:05Speaker 02

  That's incredible.

• 2:50:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was amazing.

• 2:50:06Speaker 02

  Fuck yeah, Canada.

• 2:50:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:50:08Speaker 02

  That's awesome.

• 2:50:09Speaker 01

  Indeed.

• 2:50:10Speaker 02

  In America, you'd give fucking Fruit Loops.

• 2:50:13Speaker 01

  No, no, no.

• 2:50:14Speaker 02

  A bowl of Fruit Loops to recover.

• 2:50:16Speaker 01

  It was amazing, but we, oh, I'm gonna apologize now for this story, but, but basically, during the Yukon swim, I had a specially-made wetsuit, so, because I can't touch the boat, no one can touch me, I can't touch land, going to the toilet was obviously problematic.

• 2:50:29Speaker 02

  Oh, boy.

• 2:50:30Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 2:50:31Speaker 02

  So you'd have, like, one of them hatches out the back?

• 2:50:32Speaker 01

  Is exactly it, yeah, we had, we had a poo flat made, like, just this zip.

• 2:50:36Speaker 02

  A poo flat?

• 2:50:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, a poo flat made, so we had a poo flat made on the suit. It worked in training, we then, we took it on the swim, to, to this day, I think we were, honestly, about six hours into what was a sixty-hour swim, six hours in.

• 2:50:49Speaker 02

  I didn't even think about pooping.

• 2:50:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, you, you don't know, do you? That's what will, the whole expedition will come unstuck because of that. We're six hours in, to this day, I still don't know if the poo flat was in the wrong place, or my bumhole is in the wrong place, but, I end up going to the toilet, and it doesn't work, like, what was meant to clear the wetsuit doesn't clear the wetsuit.

• 2:51:06Speaker 02

  So it's filling your suit up with poop?

• 2:51:08Speaker 01

  Exactly that, yeah, yeah. I, I'm then faced with a decision, and this goes back to what we were talking about, your anterior mid-singulot cortex, in that moment, pain versus purpose, grit or quit? I'm like, Ross, if you quit, you are gonna be known as the guy who soiled himself and gave up in the Yukon, or, do you zip it up and just, and keep going? So I zipped it up, I kept going.

• 2:51:28Speaker 02

  Oh, you're swimming in your own poop.

• 2:51:29Speaker 01

  But it was even worse. It was a, it was a black wetsuit as well, so it was essentially just baking, you know, like a slow cooker.

• 2:51:35Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 2:51:36Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:51:37Speaker 02

  So none of it got out? All of it was in there?

• 2:51:40Speaker 01

  Um, I would say ninety percent remained.

• 2:51:42Speaker 02

  Ninety percent? Could you reach in and grab it as you're swimming?

• 2:51:45Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 2:51:46Speaker 02

  And clean out the-

• 2:51:47Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, no, there was no reaching in. I'm so sorry, Jay, I'm so sorry. So anyway, yeah, at the end of the swim, when they're taking me to hospital, I, I turn to everybody, and I'll just go, you know, guys, and, and again, the people in Canada, the team that we had are amazing, they're from the Yukon, you know, they kill bears, they gut wolves, they've seen everything, and they're like, Ross, don't you worry, and I said, no, guys, I'm gonna apologize now, I sawed myself in my wetsuit, and it's been baking for what, it's been fifty-five hours. They cut me out of my wetsuit, they cut me out, and they go, Ross, don't worry, we're here, we're a brotherhood, we've been-

• 2:52:16Speaker 02

  Blah!

• 2:52:17Speaker 01

  They did, they did, they did, and they went, we're here, oh god! And they bolt, so I'm left there with a flannel, just covering myself.

• 2:52:26Speaker 02

  Oh, and you just baked poo all over you?

• 2:52:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, so like I said, when they said, how did you not realize you'd torn your tendons in rotator cuff? I was like, because I soiled myself, because bears and wolves were after me.

• 2:52:38Speaker 02

  Very reasonable explanation for why you didn't notice that you were in pain. That doesn't fall as staff in any way, shape, or form? A hundred percent.

• 2:52:46Speaker 01

  Weirdly, they-

• 2:52:46Speaker 02

  All kinds of stuff, probably septic, sepsis. Who knows what that does to you? That's gotta be terrible, you're scratching yourself, and then there's poo all over your butt, oh, the inside of your legs, oh-

• 2:52:57Speaker 01

  Would you, would you have carried on?

• 2:52:58Speaker 02

  Lord, I don't know, I hope so.

• 2:53:00Speaker 01

  Good.

• 2:53:00Speaker 02

  I hope I'd be as strong as you.

• 2:53:03Speaker 02

  No one knows until you do it, right? Well, I think that's one of the things that, the kind of events that you participate in really genuinely does, like, it changes people's expectations of what's physically and humanly possible, and they all, they all have to look at themselves and, and say, okay, maybe I can do more than I think I can, and I think, even though these are extremes, and I think most people are not gonna swim for sixty hours, what they're gonna get out of that is this understanding that you're capable of so much more than you think you are, and just raising of expectations, or at least raising of the limits of the possible, what is possible. And I think that alone is like a great benefit to people.

• 2:53:44Speaker 01

  I'm so glad you said that, that's exactly what I say, when, I, I say I don't recommend my lifestyle to anyone, you know, it's a terrible lifestyle choice.

• 2:53:51Speaker 02

  I don't either.

• 2:53:51Speaker 01

  It's terrible, it's terrible, but, but I say that, that's not my purpose, I don't think, I think my purpose is people to, get them to shift their barometer, their own personal barometer, just one degree of what they think they're capable of.

• 2:54:02Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:54:03Speaker 01

  You know, and if, if, if that's what I manage to do, then, you know, I will continue to saw myself in my wetsuit.

• 2:54:07Speaker 02

  I think you have done that, I think you have done that, so congratulations, and continue on, sir. Thank you very much, brother, it's very good to see you again, man.

• 2:54:14Speaker 01

  Thank you so much, thank you.

• 2:54:16Speaker 02

  Always good to see you, you're a freak. You're one of a kind, man, I appreciate you very much, thank you.

• 2:54:21Speaker 01

  That was awesome, by the way.

• 2:54:22Speaker 02

  Oh, you like, it was good, well, thank you, man, you brought it.

• 2:54:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you crushed far more than me, I was trying.

• 2:54:27Speaker 02

  We're having fun. Thank you, it was fun.

• 2:54:30Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 2:54:30Speaker 02

  Great fun, bye, everybody.

• 2:54:46Speaker 05

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