#2528 - Cassie Coppersmith

Cassie Coppersmith is an independent researcher studying ancient civilizations and archaeological mysteries, and host of the “Secrets in Stone” podcast.www.youtube.com/@CassieCoppersmith Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Get 30% off + 2 free gifts at https://ARMRA.com/rogan Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:12Speaker 02

  How are you?

• 0:13Speaker 03

  Great, how are you doing?

• 0:14Speaker 02

  Very nice to meet you.

• 0:14Speaker 03

  Nice to meet you.

• 0:15Speaker 02

  I've enjoyed your content online.

• 0:17Speaker 03

  Thank you.

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  I got first introduced to you by a video you did with his channel's Megalithic Marvels.

• 0:25Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 0:26Speaker 02

  And it was about ancient Chinese artifacts that don't make any sense.

• 0:31Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 0:32Speaker 02

  And it was so fascinating, the moment I saw it, I reached out to my guy, I was like, I gotta talk to her, because this is crazy. So, please explain to people what these artifacts are and what's so bizarre about them.

• 0:44Speaker 03

  I first saw these artifacts in the British Museum, so they have an entire whole wall full of them, and they're made of nephrite jade, which is an extremely hard stone. And they just look, they look machined, they look way too precise for the tools that they say built them. So I started doing some research, I haven't been to the site in China, it was built by the Liangzhou culture, so archaeologists say. But it's a, two different kinds of artifacts that are really famous. One is called a sung tube, which is a tall tube that's circular in the middle and square

• 1:27Speaker 03

  on the outside, and extremely precise geometry. The other one are these big round B discs that almost look like a giant flat donut, that are perfectly flat on top. You know, there's the precision versions of these, just like you see all over the world, and there are versions that are much cruder, so it almost seems like the civilization had this. My theory is that these were not unlike the hard stone vases in Egypt. So it was something that this culture either was gifted or found, and it turned into a very cherished object, like a grave good for them.

• 2:07Speaker 03

  So you find these tombs in Liangzhou, China, that have literally thousands of these jade artifacts in them. And it's not unlike the hard stone vases that you see in Egypt, where you find those in the graves as well.

• 2:21Speaker 02

  So what's the timeline where these pieces are attributed to?

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  So these are really old, I mean, the earthworks and the, the community around the Liangzhou culture is securely dated by archaeologists to like 3,400 B.C. And then, you know, just, so it's about the same, actually, as the graves that were in Egypt with the hard stone vases. So it's very, very old.

• 2:51Speaker 02

  And the, at the time of this culture, what were their tools? Like, do we know?

• 2:57Speaker 03

  Well, the archaeologists say that it was made with strings, so they would take strings with sand or some sort of an abrasive, and they would cut the jade that way. And then they would, they would use copper tools, stone hammers, those kinds of things to shape it.

• 3:15Speaker 02

  You say with a giant smile on your face.

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  The explanation doesn't make a lot of sense, and even, you know, the hole down the middle of the B disc is a perfect, I mean, you can see the drill marks on the inside of the B disc.

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  Do we have some images of these things?

• 3:30Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 3:30Speaker 02

  Let's take a look at them.

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  Jamie, I have a China folder.

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  Because the images on, and by the way, that channel, Megalithic Marvels, Derek's channel, excellent, really fun.

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  So great.

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  Great stuff.

• 3:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. Derek is the one that got me into all this.

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  Shout out to Derek.

• 3:44Speaker 03

  Shout out to Derek.

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  So, this is, how do you say it? How do you pronounce that?

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  B disc.

• 3:49Speaker 02

  B disc?

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  B I disc?

• 3:51Speaker 02

  And how big is this?

• 3:53Speaker 03

  So that thing's about nine inches across. Perfectly circular, perfectly flat surface on the top.

• 4:00Speaker 02

  Like, measured to what tolerance?

• 4:04Speaker 03

  You know, I don't know the answer to that, and I don't know that there have been a lot of deep scientific studies on the precision of these, right? The archaeologists assume that this culture made them with bamboo, you know, bamboo and strings.

• 4:17Speaker 02

  Hmm, okay.

• 4:19Speaker 03

  So yeah, that picture, Jamie, you can see the inside of the actual artifact in the bottom right, that's drilled.

• 4:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:28Speaker 03

  Right? And the one on the left is an experiment these archaeologists ran with a bamboo core down the middle of the jade, and you can just, you can see the difference between the two.

• 4:39Speaker 02

  How far did they get down with the bamboo experiment?

• 4:42Speaker 03

  Oh, all the way through.

• 4:43Speaker 02

  They got all the way through. How long did that take?

• 4:45Speaker 03

  I don't know the answer to that. There was an archaeologist that did an experiment in the 1930s, and they used these strings with the abrasives to cut off a piece of jade that was the size of a basketball, and it took them a week to cut the string all the way through that piece of jade.

• 5:03Speaker 02

  Hmm.

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  So it was a long process.

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  So, the difference in the people that are listening, so there's the bamboo experiment where they drilled into something with a bamboo and cord and some, but what else was, did they use? Like, sand or something?

• 5:16Speaker 03

  Yes, abrasives of some sort, yeah.

• 5:18Speaker 02

  And so the difference is, if you look at the lines, as it's drilling down, they're thick and they don't look the same. If you look at the ones in the actual artifact, they're extremely tight. They're way smaller, and they're tighter to each other, and it doesn't make sense. Like, you look at that, you're like, that looks like a machine.

• 5:40Speaker 03

  It does, and in this specific instance, it looks to me like the drill came from both directions. Like, they flipped it over and drilled from the top, and then flipped it over again and drilled from the bottom, and that's where it met in the middle.

• 5:53Speaker 02

  Wow. So, when, what is like, what's, out of all these different artifacts, what's the most puzzling one to you?

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  The sung tube.

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  Which is the one on the left hand side there?

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  Correct, yep. So that, you know, that is, it's larger on top, smaller on the bottom, perfectly 90-degree corners. It's got a round tube in the middle, but the artifact in general is square. So it's just a very complex shape to create with that level of precision. And nephrite jade is a very, a very hard stone. So it would have taken, you know, this is a, people in my space talk about the Mohs scale of hardness, just as a way of saying diamonds are a 10, you know, different stone levels, the hard stone discs, like diorite, that would be a 6 or 7. This is the same. It's that hard.

• 6:49Speaker 02

  Wow. And, so, is the idea, well, I'm just assuming the idea, is that there was a more sophisticated culture that probably existed predating that, and these are leftover artifacts?

• 7:04Speaker 03

  It is only my opinion that that's the case. I haven't seen a lot of people talk about these artifacts at all. Jamie, if you go back to the picture you had just flashed on the screen, the reason I've developed this theory, so, this is an image on the side of the largest sung tube, it's called the King of Jade Sung, it's a 15-pound artifact that was found, and you can see the raised stone, so it's the high relief carvings that were later etched over. That etching is, has become very famous, if you look at photos of the museum in Liangzhou, this image is everywhere.

• 7:45Speaker 03

  And I think that this was an image that was used by the Liangzhou tribe as like the image of the king, basically. And so, but I do believe that it was scratched over the top of an original, very interesting, high relief carving that you see in a lot of other artifacts. So I think that he basically found this, it looks, it's something that they maybe could not recreate, and then they kind of stamped their kingly symbol over the top of it.

• 8:18Speaker 02

  So this is, it's common in Egypt as well, particularly this theory among alternative historians, because you look at the complexity of some of the sarcophaguses and some of the different things, and then you see the writing on the outside, which looks like cruder, the writing is not as precise, the cutting is not as precise, there's a lot of chips to it, it doesn't look like they used the same materials or the same utensils or tools.

• 8:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, and you know, the question is, if you had the ability, there's the King of Jade Sung, so if you had the ability to make an artifact in that kind of a shape, why would you not have also created the scratching over the top in that high, that high-quality version? So why would you create the artifact like that and then just scratch over the top of it? Right? It doesn't make sense.

• 9:08Speaker 02

  It's, there's always, that's always been the case, that... History shows that people who are controlling a region will take credit for everything. They'll take credit for all the ancient stuff, too. They'll put their name on it. They own everything.

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  Yeah.

• 9:21Speaker 02

  You know, and that's famous with pharaohs. They did it with everything. And this is documented. We know that they wrote their name on things that they didn't create. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. If you're thinking about building a website, you should try Squarespace. I know because I use it. That's right. JoeRogan.com is powered by Squarespace. It has all the features that you need to create a standout website like an AI-enhanced website builder, SEO optimization tools, and seamless checkouts with mobile pay links. Head to Squarespace.com/Rogan for a free trial. And when you are ready to launch, use the offer code ROGEN to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

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• 11:59Speaker 03

  Yeah. Ramses II was king selfie. You know, he put his cartouche on everything.

• 12:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, which is, I mean, it sounds like what a dictator does. It sounds like what a pharaoh would do.

• 12:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:10Speaker 02

  You know, it doesn't mean that they made it. And for us to just assume that they did, knowing that people in great power behave that way is kind of crazy. That's our map of history. So how did you get down this road where you started looking at these objects and looking at the conventional historical timeline and saying, something's wrong here?

• 12:32Speaker 03

  Specific to the Chinese artifacts?

• 12:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. Or were you already on that path when you found the Chinese artifacts?

• 12:38Speaker 03

  I've been on this path for a while. And, you know, the name of my channel is Secrets in Stone. And the reason I named it that is because I believe that the stones speak to you. They will show you exactly what the story is, right? So with these artifacts, just like the hard stone vases, it just is out of place. You know, it doesn't make any sense. And especially in the British Museum, when you look at these with your own eyes. And then you read the story of how they believed that they were made. You know, it just doesn't, it doesn't add up. And so all you have to do, you know, in any of these places, is dig one or two levels down, and you start to see a lot of inconsistencies.

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  One or two levels, so meaning that the older stuff is the more complex?

• 13:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, or with the way that the archaeologists have interpreted a lot of these sites, there's a whole lot of assumptions that are made. You know, there's carbon dating that only goes partway down. You know, they'll dig partway down, they'll date it, it matches their story, and they write the report. They'll take inscriptions, you know, especially in Cambodia, places like that, where a king has written an inscription, and they'll say, yep, well, that king wrote on this, so this must have been made at this time. And there's really no further investigation. So it's become a theme with my work, where I'll go somewhere, specifically with the

• 14:07Speaker 03

  megalithic architecture, you can see exactly where the old architecture was built. Oftentimes, it's the lowest level. And then you can see where other cultures have come later and built on top of it. And it just looks, it looks like a, just a copy of what's underneath. It's like they were really trying to make what they saw, but they just couldn't. And so once you've kind of trained your eye for that, you go anywhere in the world and you see it.

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  How did you start looking at this stuff?

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  I went to, well, I went to Egypt four years ago and watched Ben van Kirkwijk's videos. You know Ben?

• 14:47Speaker 02

  Sure. He's awesome.

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  So I watched a couple of his videos on the way to Egypt. That was my first kind of introduction to this. And then it just became a bit of an obsession for me. I like to go to the sites around the world that other people don't really go to. So, you know, I think Egypt and Peru and Turkey, that's, it's all in good hands, right? Ben's watching over Egypt. We've got Brian Forrester down in Peru doing amazing work. The sites I go to are the sites that nobody else really visits. So I just got back from India a couple weeks ago. I spent a lot of time in Cambodia. I went to Thailand. And these are the sites

• 15:29Speaker 03

  that I think, if you're trying to make a case, or at least a strong enough case that people will consider, right, that there may be a different history than what we're being told, I think you have to have more than three examples. So if you can start to do a lot of research on these sites all around the world, you can have thousands of examples of nubs, for example, or megalithic architecture that looks very similar, these walls that look very similar all over the world. And it just, in my mind, it makes a much stronger case for it than just continuing to look at the same sites over and over again.

• 16:07Speaker 02

  It seems to me so much more likely that the timeline is incorrect than the historians are right and everyone else is just a conspiracy theorist weirdo. The more you look at it, the more, the more questions I have, like that Kailasa temple in India?

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  Yeah.

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  We've gone over that a few times, but Jamie pointed out something that they brought in, was it like an army to try to destroy it? And they barely put a dent in the damn thing.

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  Yeah.

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  And they stayed for a long time. They tried to smash it up, and they couldn't do shit to it.

• 16:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:42Speaker 02

  And then you go, okay, well, how did they make this? What did they, and I saw a really wild YouTube video the other day where this guy was proposing that they used lasers, and that it was all laser carved, and that they had some sort of like super sophisticated laser setup back then. That's why you're not finding all the stone.

• 17:00Speaker 03

  Well, you know,

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  What? Wait a minute.

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  Look, I think that's absolutely possible.

• 17:07Speaker 02

  It sounds possible, but also so insane that we're so wrong about the linear timeline of human history, that they had fucking lasers in India, like, how many thousands of years ago? That they were using to carve an entire massive, perfect temple out of rock?

• 17:25Speaker 03

  You know, I was just down at the Hoysala temples, which are in southern India, and they have these lathe-turned pillars. The pillars are feet across. They're huge. And you walk up to them and you look at them closely, and you can see the lathe marks on them. And archaeologists concede that they're lathe-turned, but they don't concede that it's machined. So they basically say, well, maybe they were turned on a lathe. We'll give you that. But that was probably human-powered or animal-powered. Yeah.

• 17:55Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 17:57Speaker 03

  These are the statue, or the lathe-turned pillars in southern India. I was just looking at these with my own eyes a couple of weeks ago. It's completely unexplainable. And to think of the size of the machine that would be required, say you turn that pillar sideways, you connect it to a machine on each side, and you start lathing. Jamie, I have a folder in my India

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  Pictures that

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  God, that's so pretty.

• 18:25Speaker 03

  That has lots of evidence. So what you can see at sites like Hampi in India is you can see the evidence of lathing. So it almost looks like the setup that they would have used to carve these kinds of pillars. And it's just sitting in kind of far-flung corners of these sites. Nobody addresses what they are. And so the evidence is everywhere of this. It's just not, you know, it's written, it's written off. It's like, well, that must have been an animal-powered lathe. You know, so I do think we have strong evidence for machining in ancient history. And in my mind, it doesn't have to be machines. You know, there could have been other ways that they were doing this that we don't even recognize.

• 19:08Speaker 02

  So what is this that we're looking at?

• 19:10Speaker 03

  So this is in, this is at the museum in Hampi in southern India. And that, to me, looks like the left, so it looks like where a pillar might have been placed, and the machine was spinning, you know, some sort of a lathing machine. So I think it's like the, you know, the other side of these pillars, basically.

• 19:32Speaker 02

  Like the end plates?

• 19:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 19:34Speaker 02

  Right, okay. And so, these pillars, how large are they? Can you, Jamie, can you go to that image in the lower right-hand corner, please? That one right there. God, I can't get over how pretty that is.

• 19:46Speaker 03

  They're so incredible in real life, too.

• 19:47Speaker 02

  How tall are they?

• 19:49Speaker 03

  Way tall. I mean, I, my head would probably go halfway up that pillar. They're twice as tall as me.

• 19:54Speaker 02

  So immensely heavy. And what kind of stone is it carved out of?

• 19:58Speaker 03

  This is a chloritic schist. So it's a, it's called soapstone.

• 20:03Speaker 02

  God, it's so pretty.

• 20:04Speaker 03

  But there are lathe-turned pillars that are also granite. In southern India, it's a soapstone, so when it's quarried, it's a little bit softer, and then it hardens once it's out of the quarry.

• 20:15Speaker 02

  Has anyone done an analysis of the geometry in these things? Like, how precise it is? And how, like, I'm looking at it, if you go to that, the one next to it, please, that one, yeah, that one. When I'm looking at the precision of that, and how many different pieces there are, I would love to know how uniform those are. Because it looks insane. That looks so beautiful. We're looking at, how do you say that word? Kopishwar? Kopishwar Mahadev? Is that how you say it? Mahadev? God, that's pretty.

• 20:53Speaker 03

  It's incredible. And, you know, these sites have crazy energy, too. You walk into them, and you can tell that they were, they were made with a lot of love. These, these pillars, you know, you can't help but touch them.

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  You're allowed to touch them?

• 21:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 21:09Speaker 02

  Look at that. Like, I would love to know what the precision of that is.

• 21:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:14Speaker 02

  Because really, imagine if it's insanely precise. And then you have to explain that, too. Not just stone chisels and tools and stuff, but

• 21:23Speaker 03

  Well, you can see in the pillars, you can see where the lathe started at the bottom, and you can see where it stopped at the top. It's just, it's just running. And, you know, a lot of people are like, well, turn it sideways. Is that some sort of a, a sound wave, right? Is it mimicking, is it telling us something?

• 21:41Speaker 02

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• 22:24Speaker 03

  I think so.

• 22:25Speaker 02

  Can I see that again, Jamie?

• 22:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, I was just trying to find out your question.

• 22:30Speaker 02

  Of how precise they are?

• 22:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 22:31Speaker 02

  Oh, here it goes. The pillars in, how do you say it? Swarga Mandap of Kopishwar temple are lathe-turned with extremely uniform circular and polygonal profiles, showing high geometric precision and tight alignment despite being carved from stone without mortar joints.

• 22:50Speaker 03

  It says it resembles machine-turned work.

• 22:53Speaker 02

  Ha, resembles?

• 22:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:55Speaker 02

  That's cute. Isn't it more likely that it's machine-turned? If it's exactly? Pillars are laid out with consistent spacing in the circular hall so that the open oculus in the ceiling remains perfectly centered, suggesting careful radial planning and load distribution. The temple uses interlocking stone and gravity rather than mortar. So the precise fit of the pillars into bases and beams is critical to stability and is cited as an example of advanced medieval Indian stone engineering.

• 23:24Speaker 03

  One thing that's interesting when you go to these temples is, you can see where they have moved these pillars into the temples. So the core of most of these temples, in my opinion, is the original megalithic part of these temples, the oldest stuff. But you can see where these pillars have been moved into new temples. And so you'll see these crazy, precise, dark stones.

• 23:47Speaker 05

  Says this is a rotating pillar.

• 23:49Speaker 02

  What?

• 23:51Speaker 03

  I think it used to rotate. It does not anymore. I actually saw that pillar.

• 23:55Speaker 02

  When did it stop?

• 23:56Speaker 03

  I don't know. And maybe that's just a myth. I have no idea. But you can see where they, they moved these pillars from original temples, or maybe, who knows, maybe they found a workshop somewhere with these. And they put them in the, in the center of the newer temples. So it's, it's not precise at all, very crude stonework above and below them. And then they have this perfect lathe pillar right in the middle.

• 24:20Speaker 02

  So what is the timeline that they attribute to the construction of these?

• 24:24Speaker 03

  Oh, you know, 1200 to 1500 AD.

• 24:27Speaker 02

  And why do they say that?

• 24:29Speaker 03

  Because the kings that ruled during that time period wrote inscriptions on the pillars in a lot of instances, on the sides of the temples, things like that.

• 24:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:40Speaker 03

  It's all inscriptional evidence.

• 24:42Speaker 02

  I would need more evidence, you know?

• 24:44Speaker 03

  Right. What's really interesting, I've done a lot of

• 24:47Speaker 02

  That sounds great. It's graffiti.

• 24:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, I've done a lot of research in Cambodia. And they, they date all of their, all of their temples based on inscriptions. And when you actually run these inscriptions through AI and you translate them, they've all been translated from Sanskrit to French. I then translated it from French to English. And when you read what the kings actually wrote, very seldom do they say, I, King so-and-so, built this. What they say is, I installed a lingam, I brought a, you know, I brought a statue to this temple. And so the archaeologists make a fairly big jump between what the kings actually wrote and saying, well, this king must have built this. So in a lot of instances, they're actually putting words into, into their mouths.

• 25:34Speaker 02

  Wow. So what is your belief in terms of the timeline of the construction of these things?

• 25:42Speaker 03

  I mean, in the oldest instances, it, I personally believe that it's pre-flood. So, you know, more than 12,000 years ago. I think there are some that are probably older, very, you know, Peru is, I just got back from Peru a couple of months ago. That's fully unexplainable. You've talked about Peru on your show many times. Egypt is incredibly ancient. I actually believe that India is one of the most ancient places on earth. And were they, were they different civilizations building there? What they built suggests that it probably was. Were they in contact with each other? I believe they were. You know, there's enough similarities around the world that it feels like there was a communication

• 26:27Speaker 03

  network between them. But when you look at the actual building styles between, take those three examples, India, Egypt, and Peru, they're completely different, right? Egypt is very, just, just blocks, very few decorations, especially in places like the Osirion. It doesn't, it's just, it almost looks, it's like clinical, you know? But then you're in Peru, and it's playful. There are these big pillowy blocks. And then you go to India, and there's carvings all over everything, right? And so I do believe that there are certain places in this world that are substantially older. And I believe that for thousands of

• 27:07Speaker 03

  years, civilizations have been, they're attracted to these places, and they build on top of them, and they settle there. And so you just see generation after generation after generation of building on top of them.

• 27:18Speaker 02

  Well, it makes sense when you think about Kailasa, because look how perfect it is now. And this is thousands of years after they attributed to being built, or at least 1,000 years.

• 27:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:30Speaker 02

  And it looks like there's been zero erosion.

• 27:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:34Speaker 02

  Now, add a few thousand years to that, it's gonna look exactly the same.

• 27:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:38Speaker 02

  And if you're just generation after generation, like, not knowing who built it, and you get a version of, you know, this king said he did it, or this guy said he did, like, how, add a few thousand years, and it's fucking guesswork.

• 27:52Speaker 03

  100%.

• 27:53Speaker 02

  And to have archaeologists shift through dirt and find an inscription somewhere and go, oh, we nailed it, like, God, that's such a disservice to what the complexity of the mystery of what we're looking at is.

• 28:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:06Speaker 02

  Like, just the Kailasa one is, I am obsessed with that place. I've, I've watched like four or five documentaries on it and see, and we went over it on the podcast the other day with the CEO of Perplexity.

• 28:17Speaker 03

  I saw that.

• 28:18Speaker 02

  It's like, it's fucking bananas.

• 28:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:21Speaker 02

  It's so crazy how precise, in one mistake, and you're fucked. But yet, it's all geometrically aligned, there's, they have no idea what they did with all the stone?

• 28:31Speaker 03

  Yeah. That's the big question, right?

• 28:34Speaker 02

  That seems so crazy.

• 28:34Speaker 03

  They removed an entire cliffside mountain, and, you know, it was, it was, they carved it from the top down.

• 28:41Speaker 02

  And put it where? Yeah, and put it where? Where'd you do it at all?

• 28:43Speaker 03

  Good question.

• 28:43Speaker 02

  That's so much rock. That's not a little bit of rock. You would think there'd be some laying around.

• 28:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:48Speaker 02

  Even after thousands of years, you'd have like a pile somewhere, like, fuck it. Anybody want some free stone? It's over there. No one's gonna take all the stone. You have fucking millions and millions of tons of stone. Like, that's crazy.

• 28:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:00Speaker 02

  What'd you do with it?

• 29:01Speaker 03

  You know what I wonder? I wonder, I do feel for archaeologists, right? I mean, they, they go to a site and they're like, gosh, maybe this feels a little older, but the only evidence I have are potshirts that I can date. I can dig down and I can find cultural layers of cultures that, in my opinion, lived there afterwards. They're dating that, and they see inscriptions. And that's the evidence that they have to make their case. But I do wonder how many of them are looking at these sites and saying, yeah, this actually doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

• 29:32Speaker 02

  A lot of the young ones.

• 29:33Speaker 03

  I would think so.

• 29:34Speaker 02

  I've talked to them. I've talked to them. I think this is the hierarchical, the hierarchical, what's the word? Hierarchy. The structure of academics and in terms of these guys that are teaching university courses and giving out PhDs and writing books. And they have a vast body of work that's all about the timeline.

• 29:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:54Speaker 02

  And all about, you know, what they know, and they are the gatekeepers of information. And there's a lot of ego involved with academics. I'm sure you know that. And they get really shitty with each other. And they're vicious. They're vicious when they attack each other, even if they're wrong. Like, the, the whole Clovis first thing was the best example of that.

• 30:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:14Speaker 02

  The gentleman who proposed this theory that there were people here older than the Clovis people was destroyed by, by his own peers. And it took years before it was proven that he was correct. And not only was he correct, but he was correct by like over 10,000 years.

• 30:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:30Speaker 02

  Like, now they're pushing it past 22,000 years ago because of the footprints they found in White Sands, New Mexico.

• 30:35Speaker 03

  Right. The peopling of the Americas.

• 30:37Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 30:37Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 30:38Speaker 02

  So, humans have been here a long, long, long time. And this is just indicative of this pattern that happens whenever anybody comes up with any sort of an alternative theory that doesn't come from the gated halls of academia. They're just dismissed. But, but academics have only been around for a few hundred years. Like, we have to stop and think about how crazy it is that we've put the power in these people that we know are not always accurate, nor are they compromised, and they have ego problems.

• 31:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:07Speaker 02

  And they have this structure of the, the people at the top that are giving out grants and giving out funding and giving PhDs and reading people's dissertations. It's like, it's very social, and it's very complex. And to deviate from the narrative is devastating for your career. Like, if, if they can destroy the guy who proposed that Clovis first was incorrect, that guy was an academic. He was established.

• 31:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:37Speaker 02

  Imagine if you're a fucking PhD student and you're like, I think you guys are wrong. Well, you're fucked forever.

• 31:42Speaker 03

  You know, I used to work in corporate America, and there were a lot of things that I thought that I absolutely never said. Right? So, if you think about these young archaeologists, even if they see something and they think, gosh, I wish that I could dive into that and really explore how old this is, they're gonna get shut down immediately, and their self-preservation mechanisms are gonna kick in because they've got a paycheck. You know, you have to sympathize with the situation that they're in.

• 32:07Speaker 02

  Oh, I do. I completely do. Look, we've all worked for shitty bosses. It's a terrible position to be in.

• 32:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:13Speaker 02

  And especially if your shitty boss is in charge of the distribution of information about the history of the human race. That is crazy. That is crazy to get ego involved in that.

• 32:24Speaker 03

  I know.

• 32:24Speaker 02

  Because when you see like the attacks on guys like Graham Hancock and all these people that propose that this data that we should look at, that's just that, like, there's, there's a bunch of data that confounds the timeline. Like, it, it fucks it completely up.

• 32:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:39Speaker 02

  When Go Beckley-Teppe came along, and then everybody was like, okay, we're in a, we have a problem. We have an 11,000-plus-year-old structure, for sure.

• 32:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:48Speaker 02

  It was purposely buried 11,000-plus years ago. So, how old is it? It's at least 11,000 years old. That doesn't make any sense because timeline of civilization is supposed to be 6,000 years ago. So, now we have immense stone structures with 3D carvings that are in concentric circles that's 5,000 years older than that. Okay, these are hunter and gatherers. They were just assholes that, in their spare time from killing antelopes, they decided they were gonna build immense structures on the top of a hill.

• 33:17Speaker 03

  Well, and don't you find it interesting that the dating of Go Beckley-Teppe has not opened the door to redating other sites around the world? So, when you talk about the stuff in Egypt, nobody's really open to saying, maybe this is 10,000 years old, should we look again?

• 33:31Speaker 02

  Right.

• 33:32Speaker 03

  You know? That, that story has been written, there's been a period on it, and it's been put to bed.

• 33:36Speaker 02

  Not only that, there's actual geological evidence. And this is where Robert Shaw came into play. You know, I have had him on the podcast before, and I remember watching that documentary on the mysteries of the Sphinx. And he proposed that there's water erosion on the outside of the Temple of the Sphinx. And he, he's taken photos of that erosion and brought it to other geologists.

• 33:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:59Speaker 02

  And said, what do you think this is? And they said, well, that's water erosion. And then he shows them where it came from. They're like, I don't wanna have nothing to do with this.

• 34:05Speaker 03

  Yeah. Just kidding, it's wind.

• 34:07Speaker 02

  Which is crazy.

• 34:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:09Speaker 02

  Imagine the timeline of human history is so controversial that you're worried that it would ruin your career if you spoke accurately about your field of expertise, which is erosion and geology due to rainfall. Thousands of years of rainfall. Well, thousands of years of rainfall means, at the very least, the Sphinx is 9,000 years old.

• 34:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:30Speaker 02

  The very least. But that's probably way older than that because you have to have thousands of years of rainfall from the time that it was constructed, constructed to make these kind of deep fissures into the stone.

• 34:42Speaker 03

  And it was buried for much of its recent history, which means there was not erosion taking place the entire time it was buried.

• 34:48Speaker 02

  Yeah. The whole thing's nuts. And the, the wind and sand erosion, that's an argument against that, right? Because it was covered in sand.

• 34:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:55Speaker 02

  And, you know, if there was rain erosion, like they're proposing, it had to have been when there was rainfall, significant rainfall, in the Nile Valley. And that's way back 9,000 years ago.

• 35:06Speaker 03

  Long time ago. Yep. And, you know, I guess it just, it breaks my heart a little bit that this conversation gets shut down. Because if you think about, think about 23andMe, right? The, the number of people that have subscriptions to websites like that because they are extremely interested in where they came from. And it opens up their world when they can see four generations back. It gives them, you know, people that, that belong to these subscription services will say, I finally have a sense of belonging. I kind of feel like I know where I came from. We, as a humanity, imagine if we actually knew where we came from. I think we would feel a lot less lost.

• 35:46Speaker 02

  I don't think it's sad. I think it's funny. I think it's just another example of just how funny people are. How we're so weird. We're so full of shit. And we're, we're just so filled with this desire to be correct and to enforce our narrative that we do it even with facts that are really significantly important for the entire world. And I think it's funny. Because it doesn't work. Because it's only opened the door to people like you and people like Derek and people like Graham Hancock and Ben Van Kirkwick and Jimmy Corsetti and all these people that Luke caverns, they just spend enormous amounts of time making this incredible content.

• 36:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:25Speaker 02

  Like, all the stuff that Luke has done in the Americas, in South America, and like, good lord, there's so many mysteries. Like, explain away Saxe Huamán. Explain away those stones. Help me out. Help me out how people with no steel and no heavy machinery move these things into position. Move these 20-foot-tall, immense stones that are cut like jigsaw puzzles that looks like they were melted into place.

• 36:53Speaker 03

  Yeah. It looks like a melted marshmallow stacked on top of a melted marshmallow.

• 36:57Speaker 02

  It's literally bananas.

• 36:59Speaker 03

  It's crazy.

• 36:59Speaker 02

  It makes no sense. And then you have the weirdness of these elongated heads that they find down there, these skulls that are absolutely real skulls. These are not hoaxes. They have a 30, 20 to 30% larger brain capacity?

• 37:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:16Speaker 02

  In the skull?

• 37:17Speaker 03

  I have personally seen elongated skulls in four different countries.

• 37:20Speaker 02

  And it's not the same as skulls that were manipulated to be flattened. That's what's different. So, when people think about this, there's a very well-known practice where they would take boards and put them on children's heads to elongate their heads. The question is, why were they doing that? And were they trying to emulate something?

• 37:40Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 37:40Speaker 02

  That existed? Another type of person that was here? Well, it seems like it. And it seems like these skulls that they find, particularly in Peru, the bones are larger, it's a larger face, and they have a larger brain capacity, and they don't have that sagittal ridge.

• 37:59Speaker 03

  Yep. The sagittal suture.

• 38:00Speaker 02

  Sagittal suture that's down the middle. So, they're literally a different kind of skull. It's clearly human or some form of human.

• 38:08Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 38:08Speaker 02

  But it has more brain volume, and it's built different than us. And everybody's like, whoo. I don't see anything.

• 38:16Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 38:17Speaker 02

  They're not like, hey, maybe there was a completely different species of human that existed along with just like Denisovans, just like Neanderthals, just like all these new ones that they keep finding fairly recently, like the one they found in China, the big headed man, what was it? What was that one called again? Julians, Homo Julians? This is like really recent, like a few years ago they found this, like. Okay, we, we don't have the picture, guys. We just don't, we don't have the full, we don't have all the data. And when you have these fucking big skulls and you're not even bringing that up, it makes me think like, are you afraid to look at this? Because then you have to admit that you really didn't know this and you were walking around saying you're an expert in the human timeline?

• 39:01Speaker 02

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• 40:26Speaker 02

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• 40:33Speaker 03

  Imagine some of the capabilities of, of these people with that much more brain volume. Could they speak telepathically? Could they move stones with their minds with sound? Right, we don't know what they were able to do. If you just unlock an additional 10% of your brain capacity, Joe Rogan's brain capacity, think of what, think of all of the connections you would make. Think about all of the things you could do that you can't do now. And now expand your brain volume by 30%, exactly like the movie Limitless.

• 41:04Speaker 02

  The Bradley Cooper movie, remember?

• 41:05Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 41:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, and he kept the same sized head.

• 41:08Speaker 03

  Or the movie Lucy with Scarlett Johansson, right?

• 41:10Speaker 02

  That's the best one.

• 41:11Speaker 03

  Just unlocking her full brain and suddenly she was moving things with her mind, right? So were these people able to do things that regular humans couldn't? And that's why they were emulated throughout history with cradle head boarding. They were the elite, they were maybe building some of these structures, who knows? And if you are, if you are just an average Joe in that community, you want to look like them, right? You, all of us do it, right?

• 41:37Speaker 02

  Especially the elites of the time.

• 41:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:40Speaker 02

  Especially the humans that, you know, were the kings and the pharaohs and all these different people. They wanted to have those heads.

• 41:46Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm. Yep, there were some really interesting.

• 41:49Speaker 02

  It sounds like we're crazy people, right? If I just tuned into this, it'd be like, oh, great, another one of those retarded Joe Rogan shows where he's talking to crazy people. But then you see, Jamie, pull up some of the images of those skulls. I know we've shown them a million times.

• 42:01Speaker 03

  Jamie, I have a folder with skulls. I can show you some really interesting ones from England.

• 42:05Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 42:05Speaker 03

  That are on small bodies. So it, they almost look like fairies. And they have these giant skulls on these very small bodies. And it does make you think that probably had something to do with the mythology of fairies in, in England. This was at Avebury, which is one of the big stone circles. When you walk into the museum, there, there are these amazing anomalous elongated skulls on these very tiny little bodies.

• 42:30Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 42:31Speaker 03

  The other interesting thing about elongated skulls.

• 42:33Speaker 02

  Are they children?

• 42:34Speaker 03

  Um, I don't think so, no. There's a woman named Maria Whitley who writes all about these skulls that she found, that have been found all over England.

• 42:45Speaker 03

  That's Egypt. Yeah, there it is. Yeah, so this is England. This is one of the skulls, but this skull is very small. But if you look at the shape of it, you know, their, their ears are in a different spot. They have huge eye sockets. Um, I have another photo where it's, there's one still attached to a small body.

• 43:06Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 43:08Speaker 02

  Look at the size of that head.

• 43:09Speaker 03

  Isn't that interesting?

• 43:10Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 43:11Speaker 03

  Now, this one may have been a child. I don't remember specifically which of these skulls.

• 43:15Speaker 02

  Even if it was a kid, that kid's gonna be a football player.

• 43:18Speaker 03

  He already has a helmet.

• 43:19Speaker 02

  Fuck it, it has a giant head. But it doesn't look right. It doesn't look right.

• 43:23Speaker 03

  It doesn't look right.

• 43:24Speaker 02

  I have babies, they don't, they don't have heads that big. That's crazy, even when a baby's got a big head when they're little and they're like, they can barely hold their head up.

• 43:30Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 43:31Speaker 02

  It doesn't look like that.

• 43:31Speaker 03

  Little bobble heads.

• 43:32Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 43:33Speaker 03

  Another really interesting.

• 43:34Speaker 02

  How far, I'm sorry, but look how far it goes behind the spine.

• 43:37Speaker 03

  And look how flat it is at the bottom in the back.

• 43:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:41Speaker 03

  I mean, imagine holding that head up.

• 43:43Speaker 02

  Well, that's the other weird thing about these, um, elongated skulls. The, the part of the skull where it connects to the spine is in a different place.

• 43:53Speaker 03

  Yes, which makes sense, otherwise, you know, you'd.

• 43:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:57Speaker 03

  Or I guess you'd probably, your head would fall backwards.

• 43:59Speaker 02

  Like, look at these, look at these that don't have that sagittal suture, that one that's closest to us. That is crazy.

• 44:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, so that one's in Peru. I saw that one a couple of months ago. It looks completely different than the skull right behind it.

• 44:12Speaker 02

  Right, it's like a different kind of person.

• 44:14Speaker 03

  Yes. Interestingly, in a lot of these elongated.

• 44:18Speaker 02

  They have like one on the side and they don't have the one down the middle.

• 44:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's another one that's labeled Malta. And you can see the view of it from the top and you can see how it looks completely different than any of the other. So here's an interesting thing that I'm not sure you've talked much about, Joe.

• 44:34Speaker 02

  Brain surgery?

• 44:35Speaker 03

  The holes in the back of these skulls, it's trepanation. So it was a surgery that they, that they see evidence of in lots and lots of ancient skulls. And the question becomes, so if you don't have a sagittal suture and your brain, you know, we have the, our brain will fuse, right? As we grow.

• 44:55Speaker 02

  Sorry, but look at that, what it looks like. It looks like they used drills.

• 44:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:00Speaker 02

  Doesn't it? Like they just drill a circle around that dude's head?

• 45:04Speaker 03

  In a lot of instances, these people survived these surgeries. The question becomes, why were they doing it?

• 45:11Speaker 02

  Whoa, look at that top one. Scoop out some brain, bro. That's crazy. Maybe they were trying to relieve pressure.

• 45:18Speaker 03

  Well, if your brain doesn't have all of the sutures that ours does and, and your brain is fusing, there are some theories that suggest that these people were losing their, uh, connection with consciousness. So they, because their brains were so big, um, they, you know, a lot of telepathy and things like that. So if you, if you cut a hole in a fused skull, you still have access, right? It, it allows your, allows you, I guess, more space in your skull to access what you used to access.

• 45:50Speaker 02

  So it's like relieving pressure in some way? This is the idea, why they're doing this trepanation?

• 45:55Speaker 03

  May, you know, I think it's.

• 45:56Speaker 02

  We had a woman on who did trepanation to herself.

• 45:58Speaker 03

  Oh my gosh, I've read about her.

• 46:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. Is she still alive?

• 46:02Speaker 03

  But she did it for.

• 46:03Speaker 05

  They were doing lobotomies until pretty recently.

• 46:05Speaker 02

  I know, right?

• 46:05Speaker 05

  Like what this is.

• 46:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, right?

• 46:08Speaker 05

  I thought we knew better.

• 46:09Speaker 02

  Is she still alive, Jamie? I think she might have passed recently.

• 46:12Speaker 03

  And, and her motivation for that, was it not for consciousness?

• 46:17Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 46:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:19Speaker 02

  She was out there.

• 46:20Speaker 03

  But isn't it interesting?

• 46:21Speaker 02

  Lovely lady, lovely lady, but woo, she was out there.

• 46:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, I haven't seen that episode.

• 46:26Speaker 02

  That lady had been on some trips. She's, she had been to other dimensions many, many, many, many times.

• 46:32Speaker 05

  She passed away about a year ago.

• 46:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, so.

• 46:34Speaker 02

  She's a sweet lady too, she was so kind.

• 46:36Speaker 03

  It begs the question, what was the motivation for doing that in these ancient examples?

• 46:41Speaker 02

  She described it in very glowing terms, the experience of trepanation. When she did, she did it to herself. So this is a photo of her, isn't that like, is there a video of her doing it? I know there's photos of the actual procedure of her drilling a hole in her head, like, yo.

• 46:58Speaker 03

  It must be quite a sense of relief, though.

• 47:01Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 47:01Speaker 03

  Your brain's no longer locked in your skull.

• 47:03Speaker 02

  I mean, is that really what it is? I don't want to find out, but I mean, I know people that have had to have brain surgery because they had brain bleeding. Yeah, there it is.

• 47:11Speaker 03

  Oh my gosh.

• 47:12Speaker 02

  They just drilled the hole, it looks like they used a stick.

• 47:14Speaker 05

  What the hell? I think she did it.

• 47:16Speaker 02

  What is she using?

• 47:18Speaker 03

  Is she doing it to herself?

• 47:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 47:20Speaker 03

  No.

• 47:21Speaker 02

  It's the only way. You really want to achieve one with chakras or some shit.

• 47:27Speaker 03

  You're probably not going to get a doctor to sign up for that.

• 47:29Speaker 02

  Jamie, can you find, uh, there's some images of those elongated skulls. There's a few really spectacular ones that we pulled up the other day. And one of them is like, the, the sagittal suture is completely missing. And it's, it's so big. And you're looking at it like, okay, this is a real skull in a museum, like, help me out. Help me out, anatomy experts. Why does it, why does it not have the features of a normal human skull? And why is it so big? Like, this seems completely insane.

• 47:58Speaker 05

  The AI told me why, but I don't know if that's.

• 48:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. Shut it, AI. That's a, that's a bunch of bullshit archaeologists got in AI and wrote some bad articles.

• 48:08Speaker 05

  When I saw that one with the, the little kid or the small thing with the big back of the dome, aren't there, or could that be explained by just like a random?

• 48:17Speaker 02

  Anomaly, yeah, for sure.

• 48:18Speaker 05

  Like.

• 48:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, it depends on how many there are. But go, go to the images of those, uh, those skulls so we could see that crazy one.

• 48:24Speaker 05

  I don't know why, Google just changed and there's no longer.

• 48:27Speaker 02

  They don't like you anymore.

• 48:27Speaker 05

  No, like the whole website has changed.

• 48:29Speaker 02

  They hate you.

• 48:30Speaker 05

  I noticed it yesterday.

• 48:31Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, that is weird.

• 48:32Speaker 03

  You're being sabotaged.

• 48:33Speaker 02

  Oh, because they're trying to get you to use AI.

• 48:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's all gone.

• 48:35Speaker 02

  Oh, that's so gross. Just write images.

• 48:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, see now, now they'll show you. Okay, so it's the one on the far left. Upper corner, it's right below it, sorry. There you go. That's it. That's the one.

• 48:49Speaker 03

  Look at the eyes.

• 48:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, the whole thing is nuts. The fact that that is a real skull should freak everyone out. That no one is, that this isn't in the front page of the New York Times, that this isn't something that everyone's investigating. Like, this is not a physical anomaly. This is a completely different skull. That's not a regular human skull, at all. The capacity is so much larger. You cannot explain that by headboarding. You cannot explain the size of the fucking eye sockets. It's crazy. Imagine looking into some, who's that one lady that has crazy big eyes? She's an actress. Do you know who I'm talking about, Jamie? She's really pretty.

• 49:27Speaker 05

  No, but I've seen those people that make their eyes pop out of their head.

• 49:30Speaker 02

  I've seen that, too. But they're not that big. The point is, like, those eyes would be fucking enormous. Like, if that person was in front of you, and they had skin on, with those eye sockets and that head, you'd be like, "Yo." You know, "I want you to meet my friend Mike." They'd be like, "What the fuck?" That is not what it looks like, that drawing. That drawing is way too normal. That head's way bigger than that, too, by the way.

• 49:55Speaker 03

  And the eyes are nothing...

• 49:56Speaker 02

  Nothing like it. They're not even in the same place. Like, those eyes are in a different place. Those eyes are in a nutty place.

• 50:03Speaker 03

  I mean, that image on the right, the woman, that could be what they looked like if they were cradleheadboarded.

• 50:08Speaker 02

  Yes. And her face looks flattened, too. Like, the whole thing looks, which is such a gross thing that they did, to try to emulate these people.

• 50:15Speaker 03

  Imagine tying a baby up on a board and telling it to stay while its skull was reshaped.

• 50:20Speaker 02

  Look at that one to the left, Jamie. Left, right below that. Yeah, that one. Look at that one. What the hell is that?

• 50:26Speaker 03

  With the trepanation.

• 50:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. But help me out. Tell me that's a person. Help me out. That is not just an elongated skull. That's crazy. That's not...

• 50:37Speaker 03

  I wonder if that's a real photo.

• 50:38Speaker 05

  Well, almost the potential plaster even.

• 50:41Speaker 03

  I don't think I've seen that one before.

• 50:42Speaker 05

  People can make this stuff.

• 50:43Speaker 02

  That is true. That is true. People can make it.

• 50:45Speaker 03

  Rocky Mountain Sasquatch Organization.

• 50:47Speaker 02

  Well, that's a reputable source. They're the best Sasquatch organization out there.

• 50:51Speaker 05

  I try not to judge all of those. I'm just clicking the photo, but that does take you to a weird spot.

• 50:55Speaker 02

  There's a lot of misinformation in the Sasquatch community.

• 50:57Speaker 03

  Oh, yes.

• 50:58Speaker 05

  But that is the only place that shows up.

• 51:03Speaker 02

  There's gotta be other ones. Well, that one in the middle, on the top, on the left, yeah, right there. Click on that. Look at those three. Like, come on.

• 51:10Speaker 03

  That almost, yeah.

• 51:11Speaker 05

  It's still the same one. Those are all the same one. Or these two are the same one.

• 51:13Speaker 02

  From different angles? Well, the one in the middle looks different than the one on the left. Definitely.

• 51:18Speaker 03

  Look at the recreation below, though. At least his eyes are big. He looked...

• 51:22Speaker 02

  Well, okay, that's a good one. That's a good, that's a good representation of what those people want. Those people, tell me that dude can't read your mind.

• 51:29Speaker 03

  Hundred percent.

• 51:30Speaker 02

  The dude in the left, he comes up to you with those beads on, it's like, "Ooh."

• 51:33Speaker 03

  "I'll do whatever you say."

• 51:34Speaker 02

  And you're like, "Okay, I guess we're communicating with the mothership."

• 51:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:38Speaker 02

  Like, look at the size of his head. Please go back to that image again?

• 51:41Speaker 05

  That hair.

• 51:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, is that real?

• 51:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, and most of the hair on these elongated skulls is red.

• 51:48Speaker 02

  Oh, that's so wild. That's so crazy. Go back to that last image, please, where you see the dude. Like, that guy, imagine running into that guy at a Mayan temple. You'd be like, "Oh, Christ. They're real."

• 52:02Speaker 03

  A one hundred percent.

• 52:03Speaker 02

  Like, that's a different kind of person. Like, that seems, the eyes are fucking massive. That seems like a totally different kind of person.

• 52:12Speaker 03

  Yes. It has very different abilities than the average human.

• 52:16Speaker 02

  Yes. I mean, if the brain is what differentiates us from all the other intelligent animals on this planet, and a human, it looks just like a human but different, has a brain that much bigger than ours, what is that? That's a real thing, folks. This is, we're not making this up. These fucking skulls are real. That's crazy.

• 52:38Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 52:38Speaker 02

  That is crazy. There was a person like that.

• 52:41Speaker 03

  The only museum I've been to in the world that has any sign that indicates it may have been alien is Malta. When you walk into the museum in Malta, it actually has a poster that talks about the lack of the Sagittal Sutra. It has a picture of an alien on it.

• 52:56Speaker 02

  Really?

• 52:57Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:58Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 52:59Speaker 03

  And they leave their skulls out. A lot of these museums, especially the ones in southern Peru, they've sort of tucked them away. They've put them in dark cases, so it's harder to take pictures of them. You can't, they're not out there in the open where it's easy to pop around each side of it.

• 53:13Speaker 02

  They're probably worried about them getting stolen, too. There's an issue that I've been informed about with ancient artifacts, that there's a whole underground market where really wealthy people, like, wanna buy, like, Egyptian artifacts. And there's a lot of scandals involved with a lot of these people that are in charge of these artifacts, where artifacts go missing. And people get, "Rich!" And, you know, they sell books that nobody buys, and all of a sudden they have a mansion.

• 53:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yep. Yeah, and if you're on a government salary and you can slip one of these vases away and sell it, you're gonna make a lot more money than you're gonna make in working for the government.

• 53:52Speaker 02

  Not just vases, but even skeletons. There's evidence of skeletons going missing.

• 53:57Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 53:57Speaker 02

  The skeletons they found in a sarcophagus, and then all of a sudden they said, "Nope, there's no skeleton." And then there's clearly documentation that they found a skeleton that leads back decades ago. And then today they're saying, "No, no skeletons." Like, where's the skeleton?

• 54:12Speaker 03

  Nothing to see here.

• 54:13Speaker 02

  Yeah. And some of, that's the weird thing, is like, some of these skulls that they find, if you could find the entire skeleton, you'd imagine that is a very big person. These are not normal-sized people. Like, whatever the structure that's, unless they have an enormous head and a little tiny body. If they have a proportionate head to their body, you're looking at a seven, eight-foot-tall person. This is a huge head.

• 54:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, and there's giant lore all over the world in every ancient civilization.

• 54:44Speaker 02

  And in the fucking Bible.

• 54:45Speaker 03

  I don't believe that that's imaginary, and I don't believe it's myths. I think that it's remembering.

• 54:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it is, too. I think there's probably a different version of people that existed. And I think the real problem is we're dealing with the fossil record. And the reality of biological life is neither you nor I is very likely to leave behind a fossil. So a thousand years from now, no one's gonna know who you were, and no one's gonna know who I was, and they're not gonna be able to tell from our bones. You're not gonna find them. They're gonna be absorbed by the ground, and that's a wrap. And in order to get a fossil, a very specific set of circumstances has to take place. And so, you know, we're lucky that we have some skulls. We're lucky in those, you know, a thousand years old, two thousand years old, however old they are.

• 55:33Speaker 02

  But you get back to ten, eleven, twelve thousand years ago, fifteen thousand years ago, fifty thousand years ago, good luck.

• 55:39Speaker 03

  There's nothing left.

• 55:40Speaker 02

  Good luck. Unless you're finding it in the permafrost, like, in Alaska, like, my friend John Reeves, he has that place, the Boneyard in Alaska. He's the best.

• 55:49Speaker 03

  That's so cool.

• 55:50Speaker 02

  That place is crazy.

• 55:52Speaker 03

  Have you been?

• 55:53Speaker 02

  No. He keeps trying to get me to go out there, and I will eventually, I promise. But the spot is absolutely bananas. He's finding all kinds of insane things out there, including animals that aren't even supposed to have existed in that area. So they're rewriting the idea of, like, what was alive, you know, like, what animals were alive, different cats and different bears.

• 56:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:14Speaker 02

  Like, we don't know that much. We're basing, like, think about all we know about the dinosaurs. It's amazing how much work they've done. It's amazing how many dinosaurs they've documented. But if you look at the amount of dinosaurs that actually lived over the hundreds of millions of years, hundreds of millions of years that dinosaurs roamed the Earth, there's a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction, a tiny fraction, of these dinosaurs that we find that are fossilized. Most of them are gone forever, including who knows how many species that we're completely unaware of. We have no evidence of whatsoever. Now think about an intelligent species that probably buried their dead like we do, or maybe even burned them. You know, we don't know what they did.

• 56:55Speaker 02

  Or, you know, maybe they were even more enlightened. They did the Tibetan sky funeral, or they let themselves get eaten by vultures. You're not gonna find anything.

• 57:03Speaker 03

  Right. No, you're absolutely right. It feels like people should be just maybe a little bit more open to our past.

• 57:12Speaker 02

  I think people are. I think the problem is some of these, and I say "some," it's only some of these academics.

• 57:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:18Speaker 02

  There's a lot of people that are deviating from that now. And again, it's a lot of young people. You know, like, guys like Michael Button, do you know who he is? He's great. He went to school, got a degree, and was like, "I think there's more to this, and I think I could do a better job doing a YouTube channel where I just research these things thoroughly and provide you with a very balanced perspective on how crazy all of this stuff is, and how none of this really makes sense if you use the conventional timeline."

• 57:44Speaker 03

  Yep. And people are hungry for that information.

• 57:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, I am. I'm obsessed.

• 57:49Speaker 03

  Thank goodness that the internet has democratized it, so people, people like me can get on there and put a video on and just see what people think.

• 57:56Speaker 02

  And you really learn a lot when you see people like you get attacked, you know, and people like Jimmy Corsetti and all these people. Like, they go after people so hard. And they always take the same, they always take...

• 58:07Speaker 03

  It's always racism.

• 58:08Speaker 02

  Racism, exactly. That's what I was gonna say. Which is so crazy, because no one's attributing the Indian temples to anything other than Indians.

• 58:14Speaker 03

  Right.

• 58:14Speaker 02

  Like, it's not racist. It's just saying, I'm saying Indians from, like, a long-ass time ago. It's the same people. They live there.

• 58:20Speaker 03

  It's something to be even more proud of.

• 58:21Speaker 02

  Yes. Yeah, it's crazy. Like, no one is saying that the people in Peru, humans in Peru, didn't make that stuff. No one, no one's saying that.

• 58:30Speaker 03

  Right.

• 58:30Speaker 02

  That's exactly what we're saying. What we're saying is probably the people in Peru were incredibly sophisticated before the flood.

• 58:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:38Speaker 02

  That's probably what it was.

• 58:39Speaker 03

  Egypt, it doesn't make any sense that they're shutting that down. To extend your timeline, if you're able to, to twenty thousand years ago, that's twice as much to be proud of.

• 58:48Speaker 02

  Right. Right, but it's just the academics who have, like, firmly stamped, "Two thousand five hundred B.C. Bam, this is what we know, and we're gonna stick with it."

• 58:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:58Speaker 02

  Despite all the hard evidence, like, the geological evidence, disputing that is really weird. Because, like, look, guys, rain does a very specific thing to stone over thousands of years.

• 59:10Speaker 03

  This is hard evidence.

• 59:11Speaker 02

  Right there. That's right there. And you don't really know when it was built. You're just guessing. But this isn't really much of a guess. This is actual evidence.

• 59:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:19Speaker 02

  And for them to not even consider that and to just dismiss them, and it's just lucky that guys like Robert Chalk had tenure, and lucky also that he wasn't an archaeologist, he's a geologist. And what are they gonna fault him for, his methods, the way he did it, what he said? No, you can't, really, because it's pretty rock-solid.

• 59:36Speaker 03

  We should be leaning on these geologists and saying, "What do you see?", and then informing our theories based on what they're saying.

• 59:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:43Speaker 03

  Not the other way around.

• 59:44Speaker 02

  Ben van Kerckhuis has done amazing work on some of the erosion that's around some of the... The pyramids and some of the bases of some of the structures around the pyramid.

• 59:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:55Speaker 02

  And it seems like there's many levels of construction. And that the oldest, oldest stuff has a preposterous amount of erosion. Like insane amount of erosion.

• 1:00:03Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 1:00:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:04Speaker 03

  Yep. I mean, even in, so I've spent a lot of time researching Cambodia. If you look at, so there are eight different pyramids in the immediate Angkor Wat area. And these pyramids are massive. And when you, when you walk up to them, you can see how incredibly ancient they are. And the, the dating on these pyramids are, you know, 900 AD to 1300 AD. So not very old, the official dating. But when you stare at the stones, you can see the same thing you see in Egypt. You see just ancient weathering patterns down the sides of them. You can see how the whole site has been rebuilt. And they don't talk about it, right?

• 1:00:45Speaker 03

  So the entire history of Cambodia, nobody, nobody is open at all to exploring that it might be older than 800 AD.

• 1:00:53Speaker 02

  Let's look at some photos of Angkor Wat, because it's another incredibly bizarre place. And when people use the conventional timeline to date it, it's not, it's amazing and it's beautiful, but it's not as crazy. When you really, if, if, if you take into consideration that no one really knows when it was built. And the possibility that it's actually 11,000 years old, 12,000 years old, maybe even older.

• 1:01:21Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:01:22Speaker 02

  It almost kind of makes sense.

• 1:01:25Speaker 03

  Have you done?

• 1:01:26Speaker 02

  Because it would look just like that.

• 1:01:28Speaker 03

  Yeah. And the temples or the towers inside the core of Angkor Wat, in my personal opinion, the core of Angkor Wat, it's got three different layers. The core, I think, is extremely old. It's got these five central towers. They look almost melted. So you can see the five in the middle. As you move out by each layer, all of the iconography in Angkor Wat changes. So in the center, it's all deities, it's religious symbolism. As you move out, it becomes war scenes and elephants and battles, right? So you can see where each successive culture has built on to the outside of Angkor Wat. But the core of it, it, it looks enormously old.

• 1:02:11Speaker 02

  And let's get some photos of the core of it.

• 1:02:15Speaker 03

  Have you ever, have you ever discussed the LiDAR findings around Angkor Wat?

• 1:02:20Speaker 02

  I have not.

• 1:02:21Speaker 03

  Hmm. Jamie, I have some photos in my Cambodia folder.

• 1:02:25Speaker 05

  Trying to dance the line of looking at these before I switch over to your stuff.

• 1:02:29Speaker 02

  God, look how beautiful that is. Look how the, the trees roots grow to all around it.

• 1:02:34Speaker 03

  Cambodia is one of the most special places on this earth.

• 1:02:38Speaker 02

  Phew. Imagine what that was like during its prime.

• 1:02:42Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:02:45Speaker 03

  That's the Bayon Temple, the temple with 218 faces.

• 1:02:49Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:02:51Speaker 03

  Enormous faces.

• 1:02:52Speaker 02

  So.

• 1:02:53Speaker 05

  Are those, is that like, those are clearly different stones brought in?

• 1:02:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're individual stones.

• 1:02:58Speaker 05

  To compare to the other stuff we've seen where it's not that.

• 1:03:01Speaker 02

  Correct. Yeah, very different.

• 1:03:02Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:03:03Speaker 02

  Very different kind of construction.

• 1:03:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:05Speaker 02

  Spectacular, but maybe makes more sense than like Kailasa.

• 1:03:09Speaker 03

  In 2012, that's a great photo, Jamie. In 2012, they did a LiDAR survey in Cambodia. And what they discovered in Cambodia completely shocked the world. So you can see, Angkor Wat in this photo is right in the middle of that giant moat. There were huge mound fields all around Angkor Wat, inside this moat and outside of Angkor Wat. And then if you go south of it, you can see these giant spiral embankments. If you just zoom out a tiny bit, Jamie, do you see those spirals in the bottom left side of the screen?

• 1:03:45Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:03:46Speaker 03

  Those are, from one side to the other, they're a mile long.

• 1:03:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, so these are the geometric features at Angkor Wat.

• 1:03:55Speaker 02

  And these are hidden from the naked eye?

• 1:03:57Speaker 03

  Yes, they're under the jungle canopy. Nobody knew that these were there until 2012, when the LiDAR results came out.

• 1:04:06Speaker 02

  Holy shit.

• 1:04:06Speaker 03

  There are mound fields that are a mile, this particular mound field is a mile long. It's got, it's a 10 by 10 mound field, and these mounds are enormous. They're like 30 feet across. And there's no explanation at all for what these are.

• 1:04:24Speaker 02

  And they didn't even know they existed?

• 1:04:26Speaker 03

  They didn't even know they existed. So this is Angkor Wat from the air, very, very interesting. That western beret where you see, that's a man-made, it's the largest hand-cut reservoir on earth. It's eight kilometers long and two kilometers wide. So you can see the old Siem Reap International Airport just south of it. That's the size of this thing. It is enormous. The official archaeological story of these berets is that they were hand-dug and that they were used to water rice.

• 1:05:02Speaker 03

  There's one on the left side, that's the western beret. There's an equally large one on the east side. So there are two of them that are eight kilometers long on each side, two kilometers wide. Just an enormous volume of dirt would have had to have been removed to create these. And there's no discussion at all about what they were for, how they were made. They're just attributed to different kings based on inscriptions found in the corners of these sites. So if you want to talk about mysteries, in my humble opinion, Cambodia is one of the most mysterious places on earth.

• 1:05:39Speaker 02

  What did they, how old do they think this reservoir is?

• 1:05:43Speaker 03

  Like 900 AD, so not old at all.

• 1:05:48Speaker 03

  And there's no explanation for how it was done. Just to excavate the western beret is the equivalent of 53 Giza-sized pyramids. Of dirt moved out of it, so this is it today. You can see, there's a temple in the middle of it.

• 1:06:03Speaker 02

  That's so big. That's so crazy that they, they supposedly dug that out by hand.

• 1:06:09Speaker 03

  You can see this from space. NASA's taking photos of it before. There's no explanation for, for what they were doing there.

• 1:06:16Speaker 02

  What is the images of the pyramids up in the corner?

• 1:06:19Speaker 03

  That's the 53.

• 1:06:20Speaker 02

  Oh, the amount?

• 1:06:20Speaker 03

  Yeah. That's the equivalent. So 138 million cubic meters of dirt to dig that out.

• 1:06:25Speaker 02

  How deep is it?

• 1:06:26Speaker 03

  It's, you know, five or 10 meters deep. And I, I believe that they, you know, they dug out the inside and then they built these large walls, retaining walls on the outside. So I don't think that there's huge piles of dirt somewhere. I think that's, you know, it was just deepened and then they built the walls around them to retain them. But there's a lot of really interesting, complex things going on with these berets.

• 1:06:53Speaker 05

  This reminds me of, I'd had perplexity, dig up something on the Kailasa Temple.

• 1:06:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:59Speaker 05

  Let me find it here. I was, it was just going into like, is the ability of what, do you know how many people they thought made it? I guess I'll ask you that first. Do you know how they, the conventional method? They said 250 people made it over five and a half years.

• 1:07:19Speaker 03

  Sure, sounds good.

• 1:07:20Speaker 05

  The problem with that is it started to tell me.

• 1:07:22Speaker 02

  I'd like to hire those dudes.

• 1:07:23Speaker 05

  It started to tell me like, that's kind of like, okay. But then it started to get, it was like, actually, the hardest part with this is going to be removing all of that rock.

• 1:07:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:07:32Speaker 05

  Like where, not, they couldn't, it didn't say like, where is it? But it just was going into the math. This is all the perplexity did, it's all this math on.

• 1:07:42Speaker 02

  This is Kailasa.

• 1:07:43Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:07:43Speaker 03

  The amount of stone that can be removed every day.

• 1:07:46Speaker 05

  And it just, it would have taken, it is even, just 250 people is a fourth of the potential, the number they tried to destroy it with for three years.

• 1:07:59Speaker 05

  And it has the same tools, I guess. They just said they had some sort of metal, this is five and a half years.

• 1:08:03Speaker 02

  They tried to destroy it for three years and then they just quit.

• 1:08:07Speaker 03

  Really frustrating three years.

• 1:08:09Speaker 02

  A thousand guys tried to destroy it for three years. You imagine that? That is crazy.

• 1:08:15Speaker 05

  Even if it was 100 and it's just exaggerated, you know?

• 1:08:18Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:08:18Speaker 05

  They couldn't do anything.

• 1:08:19Speaker 02

  That's really crazy.

• 1:08:21Speaker 05

  Off some noses.

• 1:08:21Speaker 03

  You know how mad that king was? He's like, just destroy it.

• 1:08:25Speaker 02

  Imagine what a dick he must have been.

• 1:08:27Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:08:27Speaker 02

  To want to destroy that. That's the problem with kings.

• 1:08:30Speaker 03

  It's the problem with kings.

• 1:08:32Speaker 02

  Good lord, that's wild.

• 1:08:34Speaker 03

  So yeah, Cambodia is incredibly mysterious and nobody talks about Cambodia.

• 1:08:40Speaker 02

  Would you like some coffee?

• 1:08:42Speaker 03

  Um, sure. Thank you.

• 1:08:45Speaker 02

  So how'd you get involved in Cambodia? Had you, uh, what was the first thing that you looked at?

• 1:08:49Speaker 03

  I went there for the first time three years ago. It was a quick stopover. We were getting ready to hike the San Dong Cave in Vietnam, you know, the largest cave in the world.

• 1:09:01Speaker 02

  I saw that on 60 Minutes.

• 1:09:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, so we, we had that trip planned and I said, well, Cambodia's right next door. Maybe we should just pop over there for a week. So we did and, you know, walking on these sites, it's the same thing I was talking about earlier. You, I like to hire local guides just to hear what's the story that, that they're telling you, what is the official history? And the story that they told me just, it doesn't match what you see with your own eyes, right? So they say that the earliest civilizations there are built in brick and then they built with stone. Over time, they developed the ability to build with stone, but all of the brick is on top of the stone. It's on top of these massive pyramids, right? So it doesn't, it doesn't make sense that the oldest stuff is at the top.

• 1:09:45Speaker 03

  So I started sort of questioning the history of Cambodia. I got into these LiDAR results, which are really fascinating. I mean, they discovered entire unknown cities in Cambodia with LiDAR. So on top of the Kulun Mountains, which is the plateau where they quarry all of the stone for Angkor Wat, all the sandstone, there was an entire massive city on top of that plateau that they had no idea was there. There were pyramids, there were 2,000 acre reservoirs, there were mound fields, there were, you know, massive causeways, and it was all just hidden under the, the trees, the jungle.

• 1:10:26Speaker 03

  So it's, you know, in 2012, sort of the cat was out of the bag in Cambodia. And what's interesting is it should have made international headlines. You know, these spiral embankments that are a mile long on the south side of Angkor Wat, nobody knows what they are. Nobody has a good explanation for what they are. Archaeologists say, you know, maybe it was a garden feature. Maybe it was fishing. And in my mind, you don't build mile-long earthen embankments in a shape of a perfect spiral unless you have a very specific reason for doing that.

• 1:11:00Speaker 02

  What do you think that reason was?

• 1:11:02Speaker 03

  I don't know. I, you know, I'm starting to put together a theory about, I, I think it all had to do with water. They were channeling water down from the Kulun Mountains, which is about 50 miles away from Angkor Wat. They were channeling water down, building 16-kilometer diversion channels, taking the water way out of the way, running them through mound fields into these giant reservoirs. All of these reservoirs have pyramids connected to them. And it's one system after another of reservoirs with temples in the middle, pyramids connected to the outside. It feels like a massive industrial undertaking.

• 1:11:44Speaker 03

  And I've gone back and forth, does it have to do with energy? Possibly. I personally think it had something to do with how they were treating the water, like if they could, um, if they could get it structured, maybe, right? So that it was better for plants, better for people, better for animals, better for consciousness. There was a massive undertaking happening there that, um, that just isn't addressed at all by archaeologists. Nobody's tying together these different systems and saying, gosh, that was a monumental undertaking. I wonder what they were doing that for? It's all just rice farming, is the official story.

• 1:12:23Speaker 02

  Can you show me that LiDAR image again?

• 1:12:25Speaker 05

  I'm looking for, there's, I'm looking for more. I keep running into just the scientific papers about it.

• 1:12:30Speaker 03

  They have the LiDAR images locked away.

• 1:12:33Speaker 05

  Yeah, they've done a bunch of studies on this and there's some cool photos, but I'm trying to find like, you know.

• 1:12:38Speaker 02

  Can you go back to the ones that we were just looking at though? That she provided? Cause I want to see the, um, the, the patterns.

• 1:12:45Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:12:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, that. Okay, that, perfect. Like, so those features are weird. That's really weird.

• 1:12:53Speaker 03

  They're huge. They're a mile long and half a mile wide, like that yellow square.

• 1:12:57Speaker 02

  And they're symmetrical.

• 1:12:58Speaker 03

  And they're perfectly symmetrical. And this isn't the only place in Cambodia that has these.

• 1:13:04Speaker 02

  And so we're probably looking at an intensely sophisticated civilization.

• 1:13:10Speaker 03

  Yes, absolutely. I mean, the, the moat you see dug in the middle of that structure, that was built, built during the Khmer period, which is the civilization that all of this is being attributed to. They're the ones that dug that through the middle. So I don't even think they knew that this was here.

• 1:13:28Speaker 02

  It was just completely covered?

• 1:13:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, they, they just dug right through the middle of it.

• 1:13:33Speaker 02

  And so this is probably really, really old and people have lived in that same place. Look how crazy that looks. That's crazy.

• 1:13:43Speaker 03

  Almost every inch of ancient Cambodia is engineered. There's a, there's a site called Koh Khare. It's about 200 miles northeast of Angkor Wat. They discovered a seven-kilometer-long man-made dam that created a 2,000-acre reservoir.

• 1:14:00Speaker 02

  Look at that image.

• 1:14:01Speaker 05

  That's hers.

• 1:14:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, they, they didn't know that this was there.

• 1:14:05Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 1:14:07Speaker 03

  I was on a tour with Derek Olson, um, last, last November, and we actually took the tour group out to the corner of Angkor Wat and walked those mounds. And what's interesting is when you're out there, you actually can't tell that the mounds are there until you're kind of on top of them. And then you look around and you're like, wow, I'm feet above the rest of the landscape. And then you kind of keep walking, cause these things are 30 feet across. So you keep walking and then suddenly you're at the bottom of the landscape. So I don't think that they knew it was there.

• 1:14:35Speaker 01

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• 1:15:05Speaker 02

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• 1:16:29Speaker 03

  So that, that picture, um, yeah, so there's a good example of the jungle canopy being kind of stripped away. This is what it looks like from the air without LiDAR.

• 1:16:38Speaker 02

  So there's no way you would know?

• 1:16:39Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:16:40Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:16:41Speaker 03

  Entire cities, seven-kilometer-long dams, huge reservoirs. They didn't know about any of this until LiDAR came out.

• 1:16:50Speaker 02

  That's incredible.

• 1:16:53Speaker 05

  Also, look how the trees are just growing back in.

• 1:16:55Speaker 02

  That's so dope. Look how awesome those roots look.

• 1:16:58Speaker 03

  That's the Lara Croft temple. It's called To Pram.

• 1:17:01Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 1:17:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, she filmed, Lara Croft was filmed at this temple.

• 1:17:04Speaker 02

  For real?

• 1:17:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, for real.

• 1:17:06Speaker 02

  They actually let her film there? That movie?

• 1:17:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:17:09Speaker 02

  Wow, pretty dope.

• 1:17:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, tourists love it.

• 1:17:12Speaker 02

  That tree just overcoming the buildings, amazing.

• 1:17:16Speaker 03

  They have their hands full in Cambodia with preserving these temples because the jungle's actively tearing it down.

• 1:17:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, it looks like the jungle's trying to consume it with that tree.

• 1:17:24Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 1:17:25Speaker 02

  Like eventually it will.

• 1:17:26Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:17:27Speaker 02

  Eventually if more trees grow like that, it'll break down all the stone underneath it.

• 1:17:31Speaker 03

  The, the structures I believe are older, like the pyramids, they're a little bit more impermeable to these kinds of things. The newer temples, like the one you see on the screen, they just get ripped down. You know, it's, it's a little bit inferior construction, so it's newer, obviously. I think the Khmer actually built those. And so those just get ripped down immediately by trees. But the really old stuff, the, the pyramids, if you see photos when they excavated it in like the 1920s, they were fully intact.

• 1:17:59Speaker 02

  You, you were talking about the center of it, that it's different, that it looks older. Is there any clear images of like what that looks like?

• 1:18:07Speaker 03

  Um, if you, of the pyramids or of Angkor Wat?

• 1:18:10Speaker 02

  Angkor Wat. The center.

• 1:18:13Speaker 03

  I don't think I have photos in that folder, but you can, um, if you.

• 1:18:18Speaker 02

  Cause you were talking about the difference between the iconography.

• 1:18:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, if you search the, just the central towers of Angkor Wat, you're probably going to find images of that. The, the central, it's, so it's three layers that get higher and higher as you get toward the middle of Angkor Wat. And in the middle of it, it's very, it's just, it's carvings that just blow your mind. And they're all, um, they're all spiritual in nature, which is something you see all over the world. So in India where I just was, it was the same thing. The older structures, it's spiritual imagery. And then as you move out to the newer structures, it's all war scenes. You know, you can see the de-evolution of human consciousness. Yeah, so these are from the center of Angkor Wat.

• 1:19:04Speaker 03

  It's deities, you know, it's, it's beautiful 3D carvings. You can stick gum wrappers through these, so they're, they're fully enclosed. You can stick a gum wrapper behind these stones.

• 1:19:16Speaker 02

  Whoa. God, it's so pretty.

• 1:19:20Speaker 03

  It's so beautiful.

• 1:19:21Speaker 02

  And this is all, this is so, it's, that's so interesting that the people that probably built it first had.

• 1:19:32Speaker 03

  No interest in war.

• 1:19:33Speaker 02

  No interest in war, or at least had a very enlightened perspective.

• 1:19:37Speaker 03

  It does support, you know, the idea of, I know you've talked about the yoga cycles on this show, but the idea of the, of human consciousness having reached its peak 12,000 years ago and has just been slowly devolving ever since. You can see that in the imagery in some of these temples, plain as day. So, yeah, there's a lot of images of, you know, war scenes on the outer, like all of the outer layers of Angkor Wat, but in the middle, it's totally different, same in India.

• 1:20:11Speaker 02

  Now, does anybody have an idea, like, does anybody have a compelling theory as to when these were made?

• 1:20:19Speaker 02

  That like is backed by any kind of evidence, or?

• 1:20:21Speaker 03

  No, no. I mean, you can look at carbon dating.

• 1:20:28Speaker 03

  And you can poke holes in the carbon dating all day long. So they'll carbon date wood samples. You know, these are made of stone. You can't date stone. There's, there's reconstructions that have happened on all these sites that are brick. And then there's going to be, there's wood doorways that are put in. And they've carbon dated the wood. And the wood, in a lot of instances, is coming back older than the accepted date of the temple construction in general, which is a little bit problematic. So like, there's a pyramid called Bakhang, which is the oldest accepted pyramid in Cambodia. That one's dated to like 800 AD. The wood samples in the repaired sections of Bakhang are from the 600s.

• 1:21:11Speaker 03

  And they say, well, that's generally the same, you know? And, and so you have to ask yourself, if they were reconstructing and rebuilding these sites, say they were doing that during the Khmer times, they were using bricks and they were using wood to repair these sites. They were doing that in 600 AD. So how old is the pyramid itself? That they, you know, they came there and they repaired the pyramid. How old is that core structure?

• 1:21:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. And to assume that it's the same age is crazy.

• 1:21:37Speaker 03

  It's crazy.

• 1:21:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:39Speaker 03

  And, and it's a bit of a circular argument because they, they date a temple based on an inscription. And then they look at other temples that don't have inscriptions and they say, well, this one looks a lot like this one. So they, they place it in the same time period. So it just becomes this big circular logic of all of it fits the story neatly, you know, based on one inscription.

• 1:21:57Speaker 02

  That seems so silly.

• 1:21:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:22:00Speaker 02

  It really, it just doesn't make sense. It seems much more likely that there's a giant mystery.

• 1:22:04Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:22:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. And especially when you look at the difference in the artwork and the way it looks. Will you show me, Jamie?

• 1:22:10Speaker 05

  This, they say that this one took 300,000 workers, approximately 30 years, and they never finished.

• 1:22:17Speaker 03

  Angkor Wat?

• 1:22:17Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:22:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:22:18Speaker 05

  And this says they also started it all around 1116 CE.

• 1:22:23Speaker 03

  Yeah. It doesn't make any sense.

• 1:22:29Speaker 03

  So I was, I was recently in India, a couple of weeks ago, and I saw something there that was the most impressive thing I've seen with my own two eyes. It's called the Bahubali statue. I have photos in the India folder. It's 1,000 tons. So it's as big as the biggest destroyed structures, or the biggest destroyed statues in Egypt, but it's still standing. It's in India. It's on top of a mountain. It's made of granite. That's a person. At the bottom of it.

• 1:23:06Speaker 02

  Holy shit.

• 1:23:11Speaker 03

  It's made of white granite. There's, you know, the jury's out on whether it was moved there, built somewhere else and moved there, or whether this was built at the top of the hill from living stone. But in my mind, this thing is clearly machined.

• 1:23:30Speaker 03

  It's absolutely perfect. Those ears are five and a half feet long.

• 1:23:36Speaker 02

  Whoa. Look at the lips and the fingernails and everything. Look how crazy the precision is.

• 1:23:44Speaker 03

  It's perfect. Look at the head. So these are all photos I took while I was there. It stands, you know, it's 60 feet tall. It's 1,000 tons. So it's the largest standing statue on earth.

• 1:24:01Speaker 03

  From ancient times.

• 1:24:03Speaker 02

  And where's the stone supposedly coming from?

• 1:24:05Speaker 03

  Well, you know, the, the story is, and I actually think, I believe it, it, the whole mountain is granite. And so in order for this thing, so that's just it poking out above the temple that's built around it.

• 1:24:18Speaker 02

  That's mad.

• 1:24:19Speaker 03

  It's insane. That, you know, the story is that basically it was-

• 1:24:23Speaker 02

  Look at the leaves on his arm.

• 1:24:25Speaker 03

  That they built it out of living stone, that it's still connected to the mountain. And it kind of looks like that when you walk around it. You can see this rough stone at the bottom, but it, it looks very different than the stone from the mountain itself. So this is a white granite. Yeah, so you can see how it almost looks like living stone. And I can't imagine how you could have erected that and moved it to the top of this mountain. So I personally believe that it was, it was found, you know, it was built there and it's still connected-

• 1:24:56Speaker 02

  So there was a large stone that was there and they just went in and chiseled the statue out of it?

• 1:25:02Speaker 03

  Yep. It represents Bahubali, which was the, it's a jade statue. And Bahubali was a man who achieved enlightenment by standing still for a full year. So the ant and cobra hills at the bottom, and then the vines grew up around him.

• 1:25:20Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:25:21Speaker 03

  So he is the picture of enlightenment.

• 1:25:24Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 1:25:25Speaker 03

  So just, just look at that image. It, how was that built? I sat in front of this thing for two hours, just entranced by it. And the beautiful thing about the, the temples in India is they are all living temples. So they're actively being taken care of by the community. They're active places of worship. They're not off in the jungle, breaking down. They're being taken care of. And, you know, this looks like it was carved yesterday.

• 1:25:55Speaker 02

  And what timeline is this attributed to?

• 1:25:58Speaker 03

  About 980 AD.

• 1:26:00Speaker 02

  And why do they think that?

• 1:26:01Speaker 03

  Because of those very unsophisticated inscriptions at the base of it.

• 1:26:06Speaker 02

  Can I see those inscriptions?

• 1:26:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, right there.

• 1:26:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:26:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, not so sophisticated. They look really shitty.

• 1:26:14Speaker 03

  So they carved those around the base and they said, I built this.

• 1:26:17Speaker 02

  Look how clunky those inscriptions are.

• 1:26:19Speaker 05

  This paragraph here on this thing I showed you about Angkor Wat. Shines a little light onto that.

• 1:26:26Speaker 02

  Yeah?

• 1:26:27Speaker 05

  Yeah, it says like, I'll let you read it.

• 1:26:30Speaker 02

  Buildings and temples by the Khmer kings was a means of legitimizing their claim to political office and also to lay claim to the protection and powers of the gods. Hindu temples are not a place of religious congregation. Instead, they are homes of the god. In order for a king to lay claim to his political office, he had to prove that the gods did not support his predecessors or his enemies. To this end, the king had to build the grandest temple palace for the gods, one that proved to be more lavish than any previous temples. In doing so, the king could make his, make visible his ability to harness the energy and resources to construct the temple and assert that his temple was the only place that a god would consider residing in on earth.

• 1:27:09Speaker 03

  Interestingly, in Cambodia, all of the pyramids were the first structures claimed by the kings.

• 1:27:18Speaker 03

  So the first king built the first pyramid, the second king built the second pyramid. So what I think they were doing is they were going into this landscape and they were finding these incredibly sophisticated pyramids. And just like that paragraph suggests, they said, well, this is the coolest thing I can find around, and they wrote their name on it. You know, and then once all the pyramids were taken, then they started claiming the berets, they started claiming the really nice temples. Like, there's a temple called Bantier Sray, which is a red sandstone temple. It's beautiful. It's one of the coolest places I've ever been. You know, they, they claimed all of these places first. So all of the coolest stuff in Cambodia is the oldest. And then once everything was claimed, then they started building new ones, like that Bayon temple that you saw with the faces and the smaller stones.

• 1:28:04Speaker 03

  So that's what I think happened in Cambodia.

• 1:28:06Speaker 02

  Jamie, can you go back once again to that giant statue and the inscriptions on it?

• 1:28:12Speaker 02

  Those inscriptions are weird because it's so shitty.

• 1:28:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:15Speaker 02

  Like, look how bad the lines are, how squiggly they are and broken up.

• 1:28:20Speaker 03

  And there's another photo in there of the rest of the inscriptions. They're even worse. I mean, these are actually very nice compared to the ones that are-

• 1:28:27Speaker 02

  But not when you consider the grandness of the actual statue itself. The statue is so spectacular.

• 1:28:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, look how they wrote it, just up any space that they could find.

• 1:28:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:37Speaker 03

  They wrote their name there. But it looks entirely different than the rest of the statue.

• 1:28:41Speaker 02

  Right. It looks super clunky.

• 1:28:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:45Speaker 02

  Like, it really does. It's, it's stark contrast.

• 1:28:48Speaker 03

  The toe on this statue is three feet long.

• 1:28:52Speaker 03

  The ear is larger than most humans.

• 1:28:54Speaker 02

  That's so crazy. Like, looking at it, it's so-

• 1:28:57Speaker 03

  Isn't it incredible?

• 1:28:59Speaker 02

  Imagine the time that it would take to make something like this with chisels.

• 1:29:03Speaker 03

  Yes. And there was nothing else made like it.

• 1:29:07Speaker 02

  Not only that, like, what are we talking about in terms of metallurgy back then?

• 1:29:11Speaker 03

  Oh, hammers and chisels.

• 1:29:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, did they even have iron?

• 1:29:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, they did.

• 1:29:14Speaker 02

  They had iron. So they had iron chisels. And this is, again, was it 900?

• 1:29:19Speaker 03

  900 AD.

• 1:29:22Speaker 02

  God.

• 1:29:22Speaker 03

  And it's almost perfectly symmetrical.

• 1:29:25Speaker 02

  And you think it looks machined?

• 1:29:27Speaker 03

  I do. It looks very similar to the Egyptian statues. I have some side-by-side photos in the folder of-

• 1:29:32Speaker 02

  Can you focus on the neck, Jamie? Go back to the neck? Because one of the things that was crazy about when you saw the image of the neck, like, look at the lines.

• 1:29:39Speaker 03

  I know.

• 1:29:39Speaker 02

  Like, what is that?

• 1:29:41Speaker 03

  There's lines, similar lines like that on the large statues in Cambodia, and there's similar lines like that on the large statues in Egypt.

• 1:29:48Speaker 05

  This one reminds me of Mount Rushmore. Didn't we make that by hand, or no? I don't know.

• 1:29:51Speaker 02

  I think they used dynamite.

• 1:29:53Speaker 05

  I'm just kidding. It's like, it's the only thing in my head I can think of.

• 1:29:56Speaker 02

  No, that's true. Mount Rushmore's immense.

• 1:29:59Speaker 03

  And this is white granite, so this is an extremely hard stone.

• 1:30:01Speaker 02

  What was Mount Rushmore made with?

• 1:30:02Speaker 05

  I don't have to look. I just was thinking of it. It's like, we made that, maybe a thousand years later.

• 1:30:07Speaker 02

  That is true. That is true. But we did that with machines. They had machines back then.

• 1:30:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:12Speaker 02

  I mean, they had jackhammers. They had all kinds of stuff back then.

• 1:30:15Speaker 03

  And these were civilizations that were at war, but somehow they found the time to carve this.

• 1:30:20Speaker 02

  I just, I'm wondering what those lines of the neck are supposed to represent. The statue's so beautiful.

• 1:30:26Speaker 03

  Isn't it amazing?

• 1:30:27Speaker 02

  God, it's so incredible.

• 1:30:28Speaker 05

  Maybe they were gonna make something and stopped.

• 1:30:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, how dope that would be if that was in your backyard. I'd never get anything done.

• 1:30:33Speaker 03

  You can see this thing from 50 miles away. It's up on top of a mountain, and it's at the peak of the mountain. So from 50 miles in each direction, you can see this massive statue just staring serenely. So if you, it's a Gomukshwara Bali Bali statue of, no, so there's a couple of different ones. This one's the best one. So that's the third picture to the right.

• 1:30:56Speaker 02

  The one in the middle, yeah.

• 1:30:57Speaker 03

  So, yeah, that's a drone photo of it, one I was unable to get.

• 1:31:01Speaker 02

  That is crazy.

• 1:31:03Speaker 03

  It's crazy. And it's the largest ancient standing statue in the world, and very few people talk about this thing.

• 1:31:09Speaker 02

  I've never even heard of it, till today.

• 1:31:11Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:31:12Speaker 02

  Wow. So that was probably just a big-ass rock that was there, and they chipped away everything to make that?

• 1:31:19Speaker 03

  I mean, there's two, there's two options. One, maybe it was a big rock, but look how much would have had to have been reduced. And look at the stones to the right. You can see how different they look than the statue itself.

• 1:31:31Speaker 02

  Do you think it's possible that stone was moved there?

• 1:31:33Speaker 03

  I think it's possible it was moved there. Not with any technology we recognize today, but I think it's absolutely possible. It would have had to have been taken to the top of this mountain, which is like 650 feet high, and stood up.

• 1:31:46Speaker 03

  But even if it wasn't, even if it wasn't, even if it was a standalone boulder, like the ones you see below it,

• 1:31:54Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:31:55Speaker 03

  that's still an extraordinary feat to carve that thing in almost perfect symmetry, in a way that looks very, very machined.

• 1:32:04Speaker 02

  That is bananas.

• 1:32:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, so you climb the mountain. It's like 650 steps. You have to do it barefoot, because it's an active temple. On the way down, it got real hot.

• 1:32:17Speaker 02

  Oh, you can't even wear socks?

• 1:32:18Speaker 03

  You can wear socks, but it's slippery.

• 1:32:20Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:32:21Speaker 03

  So-

• 1:32:21Speaker 02

  Gotta wear them grippy socks.

• 1:32:22Speaker 03

  If you want to- I didn't think of that.

• 1:32:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, like, for Pilates.

• 1:32:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:31Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:32:32Speaker 03

  It's an amazing place. And it's still, the beautiful thing about it is it's still just revered as a holy site. So people, the Jains take pilgrimages there. Every 12 years, they have these major ceremonies where they, they pour milk and honey and things like that over the top of it. They build a big scaffolding. So they'll climb up to its head and pour, pour these libations over the top of it, and it's, it's just being continuously worshipped. And when you sit up there to get a little bit spiritual for you, you feel different. You feel like you're being healed. Like, we had a plane to catch, and I didn't want to leave. We sat in front of that, it was my brother and I, and we sat in front of it for as many hours as we could, before we had to go catch our plane.

• 1:33:17Speaker 02

  Wow. Wow. What was going on back then? That's, this is the real big question. Like, what was the height of sophisticated civilization 10,000, 12,000 years ago? What was it really like? And how much information did we lose because of the flood?

• 1:33:39Speaker 03

  Yeah. What's interesting is if you look at Jain mythology, so they talk about these great half-cycles that are an incalculable number of years. And they're, they're called Turthankaras, so they're like the kings, the, they're not kings, they're like the enlightened ones of the period. The first Turthankara was, Bali Bali was the son of that enlightened being. He was described as being over a mile tall, fully enlightened, right? He was described as millions of years old. And these are their myths that go back to an incalculable amount of time, and that's just in this half-cycle. So that they just describe these major cycles of time. And this, the images that they're building at the top of these mountains are of these enlightened beings that are part of these, like, ancient myths.

• 1:34:32Speaker 02

  Jeez.

• 1:34:36Speaker 02

  You know, when you go into their ancient scriptures, and you read about things like vaymanas, like the flying crafts, and, you know, and we were talking the other day about they had some sort of a description that seems to sound like a nuclear bomb, and you had to use it for very specific reasons, and you had to get authority to use it, and-

• 1:34:59Speaker 02

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• 1:36:58Speaker 03

  Yeah. Even, do you know what a Shiva Lingam is?

• 1:37:01Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:37:03Speaker 03

  In my Cambodia folder, there's some photos of it. So in most of the Indian temples, there's a Shiva Lingam that's usually described as a, you know, it's a, it's a male component inside a female component, so it's meant to represent both sides of the polarities. And they're, they're at the entrance of most of these temples, and they're small. They're maybe like two or three feet long. But in Cambodia, there are giant Shiva Lingams. There are ones that are, you know, probably almost 20 feet long. And you can, you can see those at sites like Kokere. You can see them at the top of Panambak Mountain, which is right by one of the big berets. In India, the Shiva Lingams are even bigger.

• 1:37:48Speaker 03

  If you go to the ancient texts and they talk about these things, they describe them as infinite pillars of light and fire. So are these Shiva Lingam, these giant Shiva Lingams, actually, they're not, I don't believe that they're what we say they are today. I think that they were extremely powerful. Maybe, maybe a weapon? I don't think so. Maybe an energy device? But if you look at modern-day stonework, and then you tie it into the old myths, you know, that's when it becomes really, really interesting to me. Yeah, so that Shiva Lingam that the man is standing on in the top-right photo, that's at Hampi in India. These are always surrounded by water. They're always in ruthless shrines.

• 1:38:34Speaker 03

  This, you know, very megalithic temples, the one in the bottom-right, that's not AI. That's a real photo of these Shiva Lingams. That one's 40 feet high, originally in a ruthless temple, by large bodies of water. Were these actually, I mean, I think that these were all something very different than what we're being told today, which is just, you know, a spiritual carving.

• 1:39:00Speaker 02

  So you think this has something to do with energy, and that's why they're surrounded by water?

• 1:39:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, in the ancient texts, they're described as an infinite pillar of light and fire. That's what a normal Shiva Lingam looks like, that you see all over the temples.

• 1:39:14Speaker 02

  Right, which is just like a beautiful fountain.

• 1:39:16Speaker 03

  A very small version of, of these monumental ones that you can find in Cambodia and India.

• 1:39:24Speaker 05

  That's very phallic-looking.

• 1:39:25Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:39:26Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:39:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. So go back to the big ones.

• 1:39:33Speaker 02

  An infinite source of light pillar.

• 1:39:35Speaker 03

  Infinite pillar of fire and light.

• 1:39:38Speaker 02

  That's what they're described as.

• 1:39:39Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:39:40Speaker 02

  What the hell is that? Like, what?

• 1:39:43Speaker 03

  What were they doing with these things? They always face north. They're always in a roofless temple. They always have major water features next to them.

• 1:39:49Speaker 05

  Is that how they made power, maybe? If it power, I mean, you need electricity?

• 1:39:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that's what she's implying. Or something, some kind of power.

• 1:39:57Speaker 03

  The myths suggest that there was something going on there.

• 1:40:00Speaker 02

  Well, this is the question that I always have. When, you know, when we think about technology, we always think about it in the context of what we understand currently.

• 1:40:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:40:10Speaker 02

  And if you think of human beings, the way we've progressed to get to where we are now is through internal combustion engines and transistors and all these different technologies that were available that we have right now. We... There could have been a completely different direction that they went in and achieved similar or more spectacular sophistication in this different direction.

• 1:40:36Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:40:37Speaker 02

  And the idea that this is the only way to go is kind of crazy.

• 1:40:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, it doesn't have to be mechanical.

• 1:40:41Speaker 02

  Especially when this is a fairly sick society in terms of our value system and, you know, what we, you know, we're a mess.

• 1:40:48Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:40:48Speaker 02

  Like, objectively.

• 1:40:49Speaker 03

  Yes. Mentally, physically, we're as sick as we've ever been. It's the only reason our lifespan is increasing is because we've overcome it with technology.

• 1:40:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:40:57Speaker 03

  Right?

• 1:40:58Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:40:58Speaker 03

  We're as sick as we've ever been, as unhappy as we've ever been. I think that's part of the reason that the powers that be don't want us talking about golden ages. Right? So if you can convince civilization that if you can convince today's society that we are the best we've ever been, life is as good as it's ever been,

• 1:41:21Speaker 03

  that's much more palatable than we are as sick as we've ever been. We're as unhappy as we've ever been.

• 1:41:26Speaker 02

  Do you think that people are actively trying to enforce that narrative because of that? Or do you think they're just reinforcing their own current beliefs?

• 1:41:36Speaker 03

  I think a little of both.

• 1:41:37Speaker 02

  I don't think they know. I think there's a lot of these people that are these,

• 1:41:45Speaker 02

  that are conventional archaeologists, conventional timeline proponents. I don't think they really study it all. I don't think they do. I think they try to discredit some things and they do it very disingenuously. Like, some of the people that have gone after Graham Hancock.

• 1:41:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:41:59Speaker 02

  The things they say are really kind of crazy. But I don't... I think they're doing it because they're trying to reinforce their own closely held beliefs and this gatekeeping of information, being the person that's the expert.

• 1:42:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:13Speaker 02

  You know, this appeal to expertise in an area where you have very little data.

• 1:42:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:18Speaker 02

  It's like you really can't be an expert in something that you, you know, especially like timelines of stone. Like, how? How do you know? You don't really know, right? You don't know? Okay.

• 1:42:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:28Speaker 02

  So let's go from there.

• 1:42:28Speaker 03

  We don't know.

• 1:42:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:42:30Speaker 03

  That's an okay thing to say.

• 1:42:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:42:31Speaker 03

  Or I'm open to the possibilities.

• 1:42:33Speaker 02

  I don't think they're trying to promote it because they think that we want to establish that, you know, human beings today are sick and let's not pay attention to an enlightened golden age when people were different and they were concentrating much more on the spiritual aspects of human life. And they had deities that were spectacular and they had technology that was above and beyond. I think, I think they're just not willing to entertain it. You know, I think, and again, I think that's like what they say about science, that science moves on and progresses one funeral at a time.

• 1:43:08Speaker 03

  Hmm, yeah.

• 1:43:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. I think that's the case with archaeology as well. I think there's a lot of these people that just, they have to go away.

• 1:43:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:43:15Speaker 02

  And then the new people coming up, a lot of them are watching YouTube. You know, a lot of them are reading these papers. A lot of them are looking at the work of Filippo Biondi that's underneath the pyramids. And they're going, hey, explain that.

• 1:43:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:43:29Speaker 02

  Because you really can't. You know, and they're trying to dismiss it so hard. But that technology is, like, if you are, trust the science.

• 1:43:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:43:39Speaker 02

  Like, you gotta trust the science. And that technology is proven. Not only that, they use that technology to accurately get the dimensions of things like that particle collider that's 1.2 kilometers into a mountain.

• 1:43:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:43:53Speaker 02

  So if they have that and they can use that on a known, specific structure, they know the dimensions of it, and then they get a reading that's the exact dimensions of that specific structure. It's because technology works.

• 1:44:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:44:03Speaker 02

  Right?

• 1:44:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:44:04Speaker 02

  But they don't want to even entertain it because it's too crazy. Like, if what he's saying about what's underneath the pyramids is correct, the whole timeline's gone.

• 1:44:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:44:13Speaker 02

  Like, everything's gone. Like, it's like, okay.

• 1:44:15Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:44:15Speaker 02

  We don't know shit.

• 1:44:16Speaker 03

  You know, he just basically announced that he discovered a second Sphinx. And if you, if you look at the layout of the Giza Plateau, it actually makes sense that a second Sphinx would be there. The structures under the pyramid are very difficult to prove out because you have to dig or excavate under the pyramid to do that. The second Sphinx is, if it's there, is simply buried by a pile of sand. So that would be a very easy thing to dig out and to prove, yes, Filippo Biondi is, his technology is showing something that's actually there.

• 1:44:50Speaker 02

  What does the second Sphinx look like in the images?

• 1:44:54Speaker 03

  He just had a conference in Italy and his translated version of his talk at this conference just came out, I think, yesterday or the day before. And he shows all of these, all of these scans that he's done from space. And he kind of puts them together and shows the shape of the structure that I'm seeing under the ground looks a whole lot, a whole lot like the existing Sphinx. And he actually used AI and ran probabilities against his scans. And so he went to Grok and Google Gemini and all of the different AIs and effectively said, if you look at my data, what do you think the odds are of a Sphinx being under the sand? And AI came back, in almost every instance,

• 1:45:39Speaker 03

  higher than 80% probability that it is a Sphinx, based on the data that he's showing.

• 1:45:45Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:45:46Speaker 03

  That would be incredible.

• 1:45:47Speaker 02

  That seems easy.

• 1:45:48Speaker 03

  And like I said, all you have to do is, so when they, when they excavated the tombs that are right next to where Biondi believes the Sphinx is, they took all of the sand from those and piled it directly on top of the Sphinx, not knowing it was there. And so you just need to move the sand out of the way and dig down and you can prove what he's, whether it's there or not.

• 1:46:11Speaker 02

  Haven't people disputed that, though? Like, aren't there some photos where that mound didn't exist from like the 1930s or something?

• 1:46:19Speaker 03

  Right, yeah. So that's when they excavated those tombs. They took that, that sand and they piled it there. So initially, when Biondi talked about this, like on Matt Bell's podcast, when he announced this, people came out immediately and said, what he thinks he's seeing is actually a modern pile of soil. But what he's showing is, is below that in his scans. So I, I think it's a big opportunity for the people in Egypt to go out, do a little mission, dig down, see what's there. And you can prove, you know, yes, so the Dream Stella, it, all of these, a lot of these different traditions talk about two Sphinxes. And the geometry from the air, you can see where he believes he found the Sphinx.

• 1:47:04Speaker 03

  You know, geometrically, it looks very similar to where the first Sphinx was found in relation to the different pyramids.

• 1:47:11Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 1:47:12Speaker 03

  So, yeah, so, you know, I think it's a...

• 1:47:14Speaker 02

  Go back to that.

• 1:47:15Speaker 05

  All right, just, just talking about it.

• 1:47:16Speaker 02

  I know, but they say it's false.

• 1:47:18Speaker 05

  Well...

• 1:47:18Speaker 02

  I love how they say that. Viral claims of second-buried Sphinx at Giza are false, archaeologists say. Well, how do you know if you didn't dig?

• 1:47:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:47:27Speaker 02

  How do you know?

• 1:47:28Speaker 03

  And again...

• 1:47:28Speaker 02

  Also, the Sphinx was buried. This is like what's really important. Like, when Napoleon found it, it was burned, buried.

• 1:47:35Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:47:35Speaker 02

  So that was what? What year was that?

• 1:47:38Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 1:47:39Speaker 02

  What year is Napoleon? Seventeens?

• 1:47:41Speaker 03

  Seventeen hundreds?

• 1:47:43Speaker 05

  I could see the head, though, right?

• 1:47:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's it. Just the head.

• 1:47:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, so if the entire Sphinx, yeah, if the entire Sphinx is buried, I guess my point is, it's, it's very hard to prove his claims of what's under the pyramids because that's a...

• 1:47:58Speaker 02

  Look, there's a picture of Napoleon.

• 1:47:59Speaker 03

  That's a real excavation.

• 1:48:00Speaker 05

  In color.

• 1:48:02Speaker 02

  So, I mean, you could easily see, given a different geographic layout, you know, different topographical layout, that if the whole body could be covered, well, if you're in a different place and the sand comes in a different way and it piles up even higher.

• 1:48:18Speaker 03

  It's on the west side of the Giza Plateau. The current Sphinx is on the east side. And then you have the two pyramids in the middle.

• 1:48:25Speaker 02

  So, it is possible that sand could have just covered that over thousands and thousands of years.

• 1:48:31Speaker 03

  Absolutely. And it would be easy to prove that it's there.

• 1:48:34Speaker 02

  Or that it's not.

• 1:48:35Speaker 03

  Or that it's not.

• 1:48:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:48:37Speaker 03

  Or that Beyonde's full of shit.

• 1:48:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:48:39Speaker 03

  Or maybe he's not.

• 1:48:40Speaker 02

  Right. He might not be. Well, they have also found chambers inside the Sphinx that they know are real.

• 1:48:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:48:46Speaker 02

  So, chambers that are proven, that they know exist, this technology also shows them.

• 1:48:51Speaker 03

  And in Beyonde's new scans, he also shows cavities inside that Sphinx.

• 1:48:57Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:48:58Speaker 03

  What he believes are.

• 1:49:00Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:49:01Speaker 03

  So, it's, it's really exciting and I think, you know, if you think about where this field is going in the next five or 10 years, and think about the opportunities with AI and all of this technology, look what was uncovered in Cambodia with LiDAR, look what's happening in Egypt with scans from space. If you take AI and you start to compile, you know, I used to work for a mining company and mining companies use LiDAR, or forestry companies, or environmental companies, they all scan the earth, right, with LiDAR. If you could use AI to compile all of the scans all over the world, imagine what you could start to identify that nobody's identified before as ancient structures.

• 1:49:44Speaker 03

  Like, I think you could fundamentally change this discussion in the next five years just using AI and different kinds of technology that we've never been able to do in human history. We can, we can translate untranslatable texts.

• 1:49:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've seen that. I've seen what's really fascinating, when they do these scans of scrolls from Pompeii, have you seen that?

• 1:50:05Speaker 03

  The Vesuvius.

• 1:50:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, project, yeah.

• 1:50:08Speaker 02

  It's amazing. Like, they're completely wrapped.

• 1:50:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:50:11Speaker 02

  And they're covered with ash, like, and they're super delicate, but they've been able to use scans to actually read the text on those scrolls.

• 1:50:19Speaker 03

  It's amazing.

• 1:50:20Speaker 02

  Incredible.

• 1:50:21Speaker 03

  And there's an incredible amount of ancient texts that have been untranslated. What is hidden in there?

• 1:50:27Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:50:28Speaker 03

  You know, not just the languages that we don't know how to translate, like Rongo Rongo script in Easter Island, but translatable script that nobody's paid attention to. The thousands of Sanskrit writings, what's hidden in there?

• 1:50:39Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:50:40Speaker 03

  You know, so I, I think it's a really exciting time to, to do this work and I personally believe, in the next 10 years, there are going to be extraordinary discoveries that I think it's going to be very hard to argue that we need to at least reexamine our history.

• 1:50:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, without a doubt. I, I, I think that's already the case. I think there's, thanks to people like you, and thanks to people that are making these videos where you could see this, just, it's just so puzzling. I mean, it, it doesn't make, the timeline doesn't make any sense. It also doesn't make any sense in terms of like a linear timeline of technology. It's like, what were they using? Like, how did they move this stuff? Like...

• 1:51:18Speaker 03

  And why?

• 1:51:19Speaker 02

  Why? Yeah, why?

• 1:51:21Speaker 03

  Why were they building these things? Why were they building them where they were building them?

• 1:51:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:25Speaker 03

  You know, if you think of the earth like a, a human body, were these sites built on the acupuncture points of earth? They were built in highly energetic places. When you go to these sites, you feel different. People describe spontaneous healings. I have different dreams when I visit these ancient sites. You know, I, I do a lot of meditations and when you meditate on top of a pyramid in Cambodia, you drop in immediately. You know, so you are, as a human, you're resonating with these sites in a way that you don't when you're not at them. And so, I believe personally, that they were building these sites in these places for a reason.

• 1:52:04Speaker 02

  Well, it makes sense. And the idea that different places don't have different energy is just one of those things that people like to say, that we've got a, a clear understanding of what energy is and what, you know, what, what it's different about these different places, it's just different geology, it's just, there's nothing special.

• 1:52:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:52:27Speaker 02

  There's nothing, but we don't really know that. There's so many things that we can't measure and we definitely don't understand why certain places have a different effect on human beings. I mean, just wilderness has a different effect on human beings. It's, it's, you know, like forest bathing, it's a real thing. Like, hugging trees actually is good for you.

• 1:52:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:52:44Speaker 02

  Like, grounding, walking barefoot on ground is actually good for you. And we don't truly understand why. And there's something that, in some way, that we're connected to the earth that we don't quite understand.

• 1:52:57Speaker 03

  Yep. Right after I left my corporate life, I did a, basically like a wilderness quest, so picture like a Native American vision quest, where I spent four days on the side of a mountain with no food, no tent, nothing, just a journal and myself, for four days with no food.

• 1:53:17Speaker 02

  Why'd you do that?

• 1:53:19Speaker 03

  It was, it was because I needed to heal from the corporate life that I had lived. I needed to recover and...

• 1:53:26Speaker 02

  How bad are jobs? How bad are jobs that it's better to have no food and be sitting on a mountain for four days to get your head straight?

• 1:53:34Speaker 03

  What I'll say about that experience is, I think that humans don't let themselves get completely silent any longer. So, what you're saying about nature healing you, you know, over the course of three days, your body gets very weak and the voices get a lot quieter and suddenly, really, the only thing you hear is your soul or God or whatever word you have for it. And you watch the stars pass at night and you're sitting there all day and it's, it was one of the most special experiences I've ever had.

• 1:54:07Speaker 02

  Did you bring water? What did you do?

• 1:54:09Speaker 03

  You have, basically, like, you have three liters of water per day that you hike into this area and you just sit with the water and that's it. The last night of it was really cool because what you're supposed to do, it's, it's, it's meant to be a, a healing and kind of rebirth, right? So, the last night, you, you set up rocks in a circle and you, at sunset, you enter the middle of the circle and you're, you're keeping an all-night vigil. So, you're watching, you literally watch the constellations move all night. And you're supposed to try, I, I succeeded but barely, to stay awake until the sun comes up. And so, the idea is that you're entering as one person and you're leaving the next morning as another person.

• 1:54:54Speaker 03

  And so, the, the Native Americans with their vision quests, they're doing it right. I think that we have completely lost our connection and ability to tune into ourselves and to tune into the earth. And, you know, quests like that are really amazing.

• 1:55:08Speaker 02

  Wow. And it's being blunted every day by phones and TVs and screens and...

• 1:55:15Speaker 03

  5G and, yeah.

• 1:55:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, Wi-Fi.

• 1:55:17Speaker 03

  You're just flipping through TikTok.

• 1:55:18Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:55:19Speaker 03

  You know, it's, it's different than sitting with yourself in complete silence for days.

• 1:55:23Speaker 02

  What a complete polar opposite to corporate life.

• 1:55:25Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:55:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:27Speaker 03

  Thank God. Corporate life has its place, but yeah, it's...

• 1:55:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, has its place. I want an iPhone.

• 1:55:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:55:35Speaker 02

  Somebody's got to make a laptop.

• 1:55:36Speaker 03

  Totally. And people need to make a living, right?

• 1:55:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's just, there's other ways. Not for everybody. I mean, we need people to not get it so that they keep working, so we have stuff.

• 1:55:48Speaker 03

  Yep, exactly. Or, you know, at least to spend a portion of their life doing that and then...

• 1:55:53Speaker 02

  Right, but when you think about ancient civilizations and how much time they spent in ritual and how, how important these things were to them and how they had this very strange connection, like, a lot of these ancient structures, particularly Aztec structures and Egyptian structures, they mirror the constellations. And so, they, they had a, an understanding of their place in this universe. They, they knew how to make these temples so that the pillars, the summer solstice, the sun would part through the middle of the pillars and light these corridors, like that, that's incredible sophistication. That's incredible planning, this understanding of when the sun's coming up exactly.

• 1:56:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:56:33Speaker 02

  The, the specific time of the year, what's the longest day of the year, the, the knowledge that the sun's moving in the sky, but it'll be back on this day and this is where it's got to be, so this is where we have to build.

• 1:56:42Speaker 03

  And they encoded that in stone.

• 1:56:44Speaker 02

  And they didn't miss. They didn't get it off by a half a foot or six inches. Nope. It's like right there, sun in the center, right up the middle. Like, how did you do that?

• 1:56:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:56:55Speaker 02

  How did you do that? You did that while you were hunter gathering? Like, what are you talking about? This is bananas.

• 1:56:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, and in the spring equinox, the sun rises exactly over the center tower of Angkor Wat.

• 1:57:04Speaker 02

  True.

• 1:57:05Speaker 03

  Like, perfect. They knew. They knew exactly what was happening and they built their structures around it.

• 1:57:12Speaker 02

  God.

• 1:57:13Speaker 03

  Which gets back to the why, right? Like, yes, how did they build this? It's mind-blowing, but why did they build it? Why did they build it the way that they did? Why did they build it where they did?

• 1:57:23Speaker 02

  Look at that.

• 1:57:24Speaker 03

  Isn't that incredible?

• 1:57:25Speaker 02

  That is bananas.

• 1:57:26Speaker 03

  Look at all the people. Just straight...

• 1:57:29Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:57:30Speaker 03

  Straight up the east side.

• 1:57:32Speaker 02

  What are the odds? I mean, the odds are pretty, pretty small that you would nail it like that.

• 1:57:43Speaker 03

  You'd definitely get fired if you were off a little bit.

• 1:57:46Speaker 02

  That is crazy. It's so crazy. It's so crazy.

• 1:57:49Speaker 03

  The ancients were really in tune.

• 1:57:52Speaker 02

  What was it like? I mean, how much time do you spend thinking about what society must have been like then?

• 1:57:58Speaker 03

  A lot. Almost every day.

• 1:58:01Speaker 02

  I wonder what humans are like if we're not on this path that we're on. You know, with propaganda and gaslighting and technology and being inundated with just nonsense all the time. And wrapped up in materialism and brands and bullshit and popularity.

• 1:58:21Speaker 03

  I think we're in touch with each other. I think we're in touch with the earth. I think we have a deep relationship with God. It's all of the things that people are still searching for today. We just feel fully disconnected from it. And I think that's why these ancient sites are so appealing to people. You know, why people travel all over the world to see them. It creates a sense of wonder and awe in us that very few other things do.

• 1:58:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:58:46Speaker 03

  You know?

• 1:58:49Speaker 02

  I'm really fascinated by the Mayan civilization and the timeline of them. Because that's another one that's really weird.

• 1:58:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:58:57Speaker 02

  Like, the Mayan structures are so strange. That's the only place that I've been, the only ancient place I've been is Chichen Itza. And when you're walking around, you just go, what were these people like? Like, what was it like living here?

• 1:59:12Speaker 03

  Were you there when you could still climb it?

• 1:59:13Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:59:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, me too.

• 1:59:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, we went in the 90s.

• 1:59:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:59:17Speaker 02

  No, maybe early 2000s. Yeah, early 2000s. And it was stunning. It's weird. It feels weird.

• 1:59:25Speaker 03

  There's a lot of ancient stuff in Mexico.

• 1:59:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:59:27Speaker 03

  The Olmec things are really mysterious, the Mayan structures, their myths, their, you know, it's it's old in southern Mexico.

• 1:59:36Speaker 02

  Well, how about the Aztec stuff where they didn't even make those temples? That's what I didn't know. I didn't know that until fairly recently.

• 1:59:42Speaker 03

  I mean, it's no different than the Khmer in Cambodia.

• 1:59:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. But at least they said it.

• 1:59:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:59:46Speaker 02

  They said, these are the place where the gods were born. That's how they described it.

• 1:59:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:59:50Speaker 02

  We attribute those temples to the Aztecs.

• 1:59:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:59:53Speaker 02

  But they, they were like, nope, they were already here.

• 1:59:55Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:59:56Speaker 02

  Okay, well, then who?

• 1:59:57Speaker 03

  The Incas say the same thing in Peru. We didn't build these. These were already here. But we don't listen to them.

• 2:00:07Speaker 03

  We're like, you guys don't know what you're talking about. People wrote myths. Those are just stories.

• 2:00:11Speaker 02

  Silly people.

• 2:00:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:00:13Speaker 02

  One of the things we talked about the other day was that there's a bunch of different cultures that have a timeline of the kings where they ruled for thousands and thousands of years.

• 2:00:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:00:27Speaker 02

  Like, one king ruled for thousands of years. And then you have the flood, and then you have the ages of these people drops off pretty radically and then becomes a normal age, like human beings.

• 2:00:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:00:38Speaker 02

  And we look at that and we go, oh, well, that's just myth back then.

• 2:00:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:00:43Speaker 02

  Until it's history. And it's the same texts, like, in the same depictions of these kings. They have accepted dates, you know, the 5,000 year ago, 4,000 year ago kings. Well, yeah, that guy was real.

• 2:00:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:00:57Speaker 02

  But these other ones that lived for 3,600 years, no, that's not real.

• 2:01:02Speaker 03

  Same with the Janes, like I was talking about earlier. There are 24 Terthenkaras. All 24 have lived, according to the Janes, but archaeology has only recognized the last two of them. Because those were the only, you know, the timelines and their lifespans, that kind of fits. But when you talk about the way back days, that's just myth.

• 2:01:20Speaker 02

  What do they say their timelines were?

• 2:01:22Speaker 03

  Oh, I mean, millions of years.

• 2:01:27Speaker 03

  And, you know, the first Terthenkara was over a mile tall.

• 2:01:30Speaker 02

  Oh, my god.

• 2:01:31Speaker 03

  You know, so it's just, but it's consistent across the world. The Janes talk about it, the Hindus, the Egyptians, the Sumerians, all, the Bible. All of them talk about very long lifespans, giant statures. You know, is it, is it coincidence that all of our ancient myths talk about the same things?

• 2:01:50Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:01:50Speaker 03

  Or might it have been true?

• 2:01:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, then there's the Book of Enoch.

• 2:01:56Speaker 02

  Which is Anna Paulina Luna turned me on to that. She's like, you gotta read that. And I've read it twice now. And I'm like, this is the most bizarre depiction of a human story.

• 2:02:08Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:02:09Speaker 02

  The watchers came down and mated with the daughters of men and created the Nephilim.

• 2:02:14Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:02:14Speaker 02

  Who were giants who destroyed and consumed everything and were wiped out by the flood? What?

• 2:02:21Speaker 03

  And the accepted biblical texts barely hinted that. They still talk about it.

• 2:02:27Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:02:27Speaker 03

  But the extra biblical canon talks, the stories are much more like the Book of Enoch.

• 2:02:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:02:33Speaker 03

  You know, there's a reason, I think, that those were excluded from the Bible.

• 2:02:37Speaker 02

  Well, they were excluded by rabbis.

• 2:02:39Speaker 03

  I know.

• 2:02:39Speaker 02

  Because they didn't jive with the Torah. Which is hilarious. Like, you get to discuss, and they all were in the same caves in Kumra. Like, the version of the Book of Enoch was in the same as the Book of Isaiah. They were all in the same scrolls.

• 2:02:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:02:57Speaker 02

  It's just like, what?

• 2:02:59Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:02:59Speaker 02

  How do you guys leave this out? Like, imagine if they taught that at church on Sunday? It'd be like, what are you saying?

• 2:03:06Speaker 03

  Yeah. You know, David and Goliath.

• 2:03:09Speaker 02

  The watchers?

• 2:03:10Speaker 03

  I think it's interesting that you can totally accept that David and Goliath is a real story. And Goliath was a giant in the Bible.

• 2:03:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:03:18Speaker 03

  Right?

• 2:03:18Speaker 02

  How tall was he supposed to be, though? Couldn't he be like a really big guy from Iceland?

• 2:03:22Speaker 03

  I think he was described, they described, the way that the Hebrews described it is that they made them feel like grasshoppers.

• 2:03:30Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 2:03:30Speaker 03

  The giants, the Nephilim, made them feel, you know, they were like, we are as if we are grasshoppers. So I think that they were meant to be very, very large.

• 2:03:41Speaker 02

  It would be really nice if they found a Bigfoot somewhere.

• 2:03:43Speaker 03

  Oh, my god. I love Bigfoot.

• 2:03:46Speaker 02

  Not a Bigfoot, not the animal. I mean, like a giant foot, like a sto.

• 2:03:50Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, exactly. Yeah.

• 2:03:53Speaker 02

  David and Goliath. So he was supposed to be 10 feet tall, often calculated as roughly nine to 10 feet tall. The thing about that is like, you know, people are full of shit and they can make up a story. The guy was so big, he was 10 feet tall.

• 2:04:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:04:06Speaker 02

  But meanwhile, he could have been like the mountain from Game of Thrones.

• 2:04:09Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 2:04:09Speaker 02

  Like a real person.

• 2:04:10Speaker 03

  Yep. Any of our basketball players today.

• 2:04:13Speaker 02

  Who says he was six and a half feet tall? Scholars?

• 2:04:16Speaker 05

  Dead Sea Scrolls?

• 2:04:17Speaker 02

  The Dead Sea Scrolls? So six cubits in a span, often calculated as roughly nine to 10 feet tall in the ancient Hebrew texts. Greek and Dead Sea Scrolls texts say four cubits in a span. So that's only six and a half to seven and a half feet tall, depending on how the cubit was defined. So that makes sense. So who knows?

• 2:04:37Speaker 03

  Nine to 10 is pretty big.

• 2:04:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, nine 10 is big. But if the Dead Sea Scrolls are correct, then it's only six and a half feet. So he's a basketball player.

• 2:04:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:04:44Speaker 02

  You know, that's not even a really tall one.

• 2:04:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:04:47Speaker 02

  You know, there's, who's the biggest basketball player now? How tall are they?

• 2:04:52Speaker 05

  There's a kid that's like 14, that's almost eight feet tall.

• 2:04:55Speaker 03

  What?

• 2:04:56Speaker 05

  I don't know if he's gonna make it to the NBA or anything, but.

• 2:05:00Speaker 03

  Just plop it into the air.

• 2:05:01Speaker 02

  Oh, my god, that's so crazy. That's so big. So you gotta imagine. But you gotta imagine with technology. So they're working right now on life extension technology. And they've already figured out a way to reverse the age of skin cells. And they're on their path to being able to stop human aging.

• 2:05:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:05:20Speaker 02

  And maybe potentially even reverse it. If that technology becomes implemented.

• 2:05:24Speaker 05

  This kid's 7'9" now.

• 2:05:26Speaker 02

  Jeez.

• 2:05:26Speaker 05

  He's 20 years old, but he's actually playing basketball, but.

• 2:05:29Speaker 02

  Jeez. So he's bigger than Goliath by a lot. Goliath would talk shit about him. Write a story about it. He got his ass kicked by a basketball player. But if you can imagine this technology being implemented in the future and then being refined and then getting to a point where they really have it mastered, you know, like, like we have with so many medical interventions that we have today. You could get to a point where someone could live to 1,000 years or several thousand years. And if you're the king, of course, you're gonna want that technology. And you're also gonna be very protected, so you're, you don't have to worry about dying in other ways unless somebody usurps you.

• 2:06:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:06:07Speaker 02

  So you can, like, the Sumerian kings list and some of these, like, the Zeptapi list. You look at that and you go, what are they saying? Like, why was this guy 6,000 years old?

• 2:06:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:06:17Speaker 02

  How did he, how did he rule the country for 30,000 years? That sounds insane.

• 2:06:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:06:22Speaker 02

  But it doesn't sound insane if they master biological aging, which is not impossible. It's not impossible. Not only is it not impossible, they're actively working on technology that's gonna allow that to happen in our lifetime.

• 2:06:35Speaker 03

  You think it's gonna happen in our lifetime?

• 2:06:36Speaker 02

  100%. Yeah, 100%. Yeah.

• 2:06:39Speaker 03

  The human quest for immortality.

• 2:06:41Speaker 02

  Well, I don't think that's gonna happen, but I think you're gonna extend life. You're gonna extend biological life in a significant manner and maybe. For the sake of looking at things through rose colored glasses. Maybe that's a good thing.

• 2:06:54Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:06:54Speaker 02

  Because one of the things about humans is we barely have enough time to figure out how much of life is bullshit.

• 2:07:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:03Speaker 02

  While you're wrapped up in it and then if you have responsibilities, you get married, you have a family, you have a mortgage, you have a bunch of, there's no time to recognize how fruitless a lot of your thinking and behavior and how stupid a lot of the things that people concentrate on. But as you get older and older, you get better at it. I'm way better at it now than I was 20 years ago.

• 2:07:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:23Speaker 02

  Way better, way better at life. I would imagine I'm going to be better still 20 years from now unless I'm decrepit. So 20 years from now, I could be all worn out and like, you know, my back hurts, get off my lawn, you know, you get stupid.

• 2:07:37Speaker 03

  Not in my backyard.

• 2:07:38Speaker 02

  Right. You get goofy. You get goofy because you get old and sad and, you know, you're not healthy anymore. But if you were 80 years old and healthy like a healthy 30 year old.

• 2:07:48Speaker 03

  You're wise at that point.

• 2:07:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, then you have immense amount of life experience.

• 2:07:52Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 2:07:53Speaker 02

  And then if you live under 100 years on top of that, you're, oh, my God, I was so stupid when I was 80. Back when I was 80, I thought I had it nailed. But now that I'm 180, now I see.

• 2:08:03Speaker 03

  The question is, if your lifespan is expected to be 200 years, then do you work until you're 160? So does it just expand the stages that we're all going through now and you just work longer?

• 2:08:14Speaker 02

  Well, it depends on what work is. So if work is your love, why not, right?

• 2:08:18Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 2:08:19Speaker 02

  If, yeah, it really depends on what work is. So if it's hard labor, that doesn't sound fun. I don't want to be an 800 year old roofer. It seems like, geez, my hands would be so tired.

• 2:08:27Speaker 03

  But if you're going to live to 1,200 years, you've still got a long retirement.

• 2:08:31Speaker 02

  Well, I think retirement's out the window if you can stay healthy. Because the whole idea of retirement is like, why are we retiring? We're retiring because we hate our jobs.

• 2:08:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:08:39Speaker 02

  Okay, well, maybe if you loved your job, you wouldn't want to retire.

• 2:08:42Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 2:08:43Speaker 02

  You know, George Carlin died on the road. Died in a hotel room, I think in Las Vegas.

• 2:08:47Speaker 03

  You know, and you hear lots of stories of people working their entire careers, retiring, and then promptly dying.

• 2:08:53Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:08:53Speaker 03

  Within six months, they have a heart attack and they die. And they had all these big plans and they just never see them through.

• 2:08:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, and they just feel like the end is near and that the creeping doom, the existential angst in the back of your head is probably contributing to a lot of your decay.

• 2:09:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:09:09Speaker 02

  Because you've kind of like checked out, you know? That happens a lot with spouses. You know, the husband dies and the wife dies shortly thereafter. My grandparents, my grandmother died and my grandfather died within a year.

• 2:09:20Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yep. That's what happens when the woman dies first.

• 2:09:24Speaker 02

  Yeah?

• 2:09:24Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's so much harder for the man to live without her.

• 2:09:27Speaker 02

  Is it? Is it?

• 2:09:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think so.

• 2:09:30Speaker 02

  Why is that?

• 2:09:30Speaker 03

  I mean, if you think of the, all the old widows, you know, the women live, my grandpa died 15 years ago and my grandma's 93. She's still living, she's still going.

• 2:09:41Speaker 02

  That's interesting.

• 2:09:41Speaker 03

  You know, she knew how to cook for herself and clean and things like that, but had it been reversed, I'm not sure that he would have lived that long.

• 2:09:48Speaker 02

  Hmm, maybe.

• 2:09:50Speaker 03

  So.

• 2:09:51Speaker 02

  Depends on the relationship. So I see a lot of relationships with older couples where the woman becomes like the caretaker.

• 2:09:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:09:59Speaker 02

  I think dudes get dumber quicker when they get older.

• 2:10:04Speaker 03

  No comment.

• 2:10:05Speaker 02

  They're just worn out by the time they hit 80, you know? A lot of times the wife tells them, think like, okay, you got, you're right, you're right. And then they just like fall into that role where the wife is in charge of everything.

• 2:10:15Speaker 03

  Have you seen the stats of the, the expected lifespan of a man that's married versus not married?

• 2:10:22Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:10:22Speaker 03

  I, Jamie, I don't know these off the top of my head, but they've done studies that talk about basically the lifespan extension that happens with men when they have a woman in their life.

• 2:10:32Speaker 02

  Is it longer?

• 2:10:33Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:10:33Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 2:10:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:10:34Speaker 02

  Well, then when there's no woman, then it's filled with cocaine and hookers. So that also takes years off your life.

• 2:10:39Speaker 03

  And lots of burgers and beer, you know? You're not eating a salad.

• 2:10:43Speaker 02

  Right. It's loneliness is worse than cigarette smoking. They've found that.

• 2:10:48Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 2:10:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, loneliness is like one of the worst things that can happen to people.

• 2:10:51Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:10:51Speaker 02

  And it, you know, really, the term spirituality is, is, it's kind of tainted in a lot of ways because there's a lot of goofy people that use that. Like, I'm not religious, but I'm spiritual. Like, it's, the term unfortunately has like a stink to it.

• 2:11:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:11:06Speaker 02

  But there is a connection that we have to each other that's not as simple as we would like to think. Like, we need each other. We need each other in very profound ways and it's, it's actually important for our survival.

• 2:11:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:11:24Speaker 02

  And that's why the worst thing they could do to you in prison is put you in solitary confinement.

• 2:11:28Speaker 03

  We are a pack animal.

• 2:11:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, we're, we're supposed to be connected to each other and it's not a preference thing. That's why when someone says like, I'm a loner, I'm like, okay, well, either you're the only one that's like that or you're full of shit or you like, you want to pretend you're mysterious, you like to be alone. Like, we like, we attribute strength to that, like, oh, he doesn't need anybody.

• 2:11:47Speaker 03

  And it's so hard now to, to build your tribe. You no longer live where your grandparents and your parents lived. You are out there on your own, you're spending hours on your phone. You have a community that you feel like is a community, but it's not. You don't have, you don't have a tribe anymore.

• 2:12:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then people find their own tribes and usually they're political.

• 2:12:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:12:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, they get ideological or religious, you know?

• 2:12:11Speaker 03

  You want to fit in.

• 2:12:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:12:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:12:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that's what we do. I mean, that's why when you see so many people that are religious devotees, like, why are they, why are they willing to do that? Why are they willing to wear those clothes? Why are they willing to act that way? Well, it's because everyone's doing it and you want to be a part of it. And there's like some, some good feeling of community to where everyone's kneeling at the same time and saying the same things. There's something to that that likes very profound.

• 2:12:34Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 2:12:34Speaker 02

  With human beings. And if it's directed in the wrong way, it could be incredibly destructive, but if it's directed in the right way, if it, if it's real ceremony and real worship and real openness to the cosmos and to, to God and to spirituality, like real true.

• 2:12:55Speaker 03

  Real connection.

• 2:12:55Speaker 02

  Understanding, real connection with the universe, then it's probably a lot better than the way we're doing it.

• 2:13:02Speaker 03

  1,000%. I think that's why the psychedelics are coming back in such a huge way. It's people, it's people accessing that part of themselves that have been shut down their whole lives.

• 2:13:13Speaker 02

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• 2:14:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because I think that's the missing element and I think that's what probably was very prevalent in the ancient times. And this is the work of Brian Murrow rescue, I'm sure you, do you know about his stuff? The Immortality Key?

• 2:14:53Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:14:54Speaker 02

  Did you read that book?

• 2:14:54Speaker 03

  Yes, I did.

• 2:14:55Speaker 02

  So he, I actually got super fortunate that my family and I were in Greece when he was going to be in Greece. And so I got a tour of Elysus with him. He took me there.

• 2:15:06Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 2:15:06Speaker 02

  And he showed me all the different places and it feels so strange. It feels so strange. Like, you're, you're standing in the place where these people had these Illician mystery ceremonies and it just feels weird. Like, my family got a little weirded out because I was like holding on to, I was like standing there.

• 2:15:24Speaker 03

  Did it feel good?

• 2:15:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely good.

• 2:15:27Speaker 03

  Like, like a connection?

• 2:15:28Speaker 02

  It felt fucking strange.

• 2:15:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:30Speaker 02

  Like, I was holding on, I was, I had my hand on this wall and my daughter was like, are you okay? I'm like, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. I'm just, I don't want to talk right now, I just want to like.

• 2:15:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:38Speaker 02

  Sit here and try to soak this in. Like, is daddy upset? Like, no, no, no, no, not upset. No, like, because your dad's just like holding a rock.

• 2:15:46Speaker 03

  It's a little destabilizing for a child.

• 2:15:48Speaker 02

  I know. Like, is daddy okay? They thought it was cool too, but you know, it's hard when you're 13 or 12. It's hard to like go, oh, my God, what a special place. They're like, yep, old, old stuff, what are we eating?

• 2:16:03Speaker 03

  Rocks, cool.

• 2:16:05Speaker 02

  Like, we took them to the museum in Athens and one of my daughters loves museums, the other ones, they're like, couldn't be bothered. She's like bored by it all. But I was like, this is crazy. Like, these people lived 2,000 years ago and they made this stuff. Like, do you know how nuts this is? Like, how did they do this? Like, what were they doing? Like, what was this society like? Like, this is, to be able to just see the, the work of people that they've left behind and just imagine the amount of time that's taken place and then just put yourself back into that timeline, like, we just assume that this way that we are, this is how people are, because this is how people are today.

• 2:16:44Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:16:44Speaker 02

  It's so hard to put your mind into like what it's like and what it must have been like to live back then.

• 2:16:51Speaker 03

  If you go to places, earlier this year, I went to Easter Island and Peru. And both of them are described as the navels of the world. You know, so they have these, these origin myths in both of these places. And when you're in these places, you have different dreams, you sleep really well, you feel just good. You feel like you're on peptides. You know, you just feel, you're like, oh, my gosh, I feel so healthy, I feel healed. And you, it, so the, the land itself where they built a lot of these ancient places is powerful. You know, I don't, I don't think it's a coincidence that we see the Moai in Easter Island built around this absolutely incredible place or Cusco, which is such a beautiful place that

• 2:17:36Speaker 03

  you see these stone walls. I think that they built there because of the energy that was there already.

• 2:17:41Speaker 02

  What do you think was before that? And like, what is this timeline? How far does it go back? Like, what is the origin of sophisticated civilization? Like, what is the year? When does it all start happening?

• 2:17:55Speaker 03

  I wonder sometimes if the purpose of building structures like that is so people like you ask those questions.

• 2:18:04Speaker 03

  That's the whole point.

• 2:18:05Speaker 02

  Well, maybe.

• 2:18:06Speaker 03

  Is to, is to blow our minds and get us to think about consciousness and the history of our species. The fact that we're sitting there having this conversation is because of the stones that were built who knows how long ago.

• 2:18:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:18:22Speaker 03

  And maybe that was the point.

• 2:18:25Speaker 02

  It certainly could have been a part of the point because what we're doing today, when we talk about our society being sick and superficial and silly, all of our structures are temporary.

• 2:18:36Speaker 03

  And they're ugly.

• 2:18:37Speaker 02

  Well, some of them are cool looking. I think some of them are cool.

• 2:18:41Speaker 03

  Some of them, yeah.

• 2:18:42Speaker 02

  They're cool. They're certainly not Ankor Wat cool.

• 2:18:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:18:46Speaker 02

  You know, they're cool, but the, the point is like they're all essentially temporary. A thousand years from now, none of them will exist. They will all be absorbed by the earth. And that's hard for people to understand. If you're walking through Manhattan, like this will always be here. Nope, nope, nope. It won't, it won't. If everybody just left and you came back 5,000 years from now, there wouldn't be shit here.

• 2:19:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:19:08Speaker 02

  So then it leads me to this question. The timeline that we're looking at, if you're looking at pre-flood timeline, you know, 11, 12,000 years ago, things were sophisticated.

• 2:19:18Speaker 02

  Maybe it's way longer than that. Cause if you have 100,000 years of super sophisticated civilization, what, what does that look like?

• 2:19:26Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:19:26Speaker 02

  What do people look like then? And this is one of the things that people are proposing when they look at anatomically modern human beings. So anatomically modern human beings, and then not these Peru skulls, but whatever, just you and I are, they've pushed that back now to 1 million years.

• 2:19:43Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:19:44Speaker 02

  So, okay, why did it take so long before people just like you and I figured out agriculture, figured out civilization, figured out cities?

• 2:19:55Speaker 03

  What were we doing that whole time?

• 2:19:57Speaker 02

  What, what was going on? And is it possible that it's just, when you go back that far, you don't find anything?

• 2:20:05Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:20:05Speaker 02

  You don't find anything. That seems more likely to me. And when you look at the immense erosion that Ben van Kirkwood has pointed out to the really, the older stones in Egypt where you can clearly see they've built on top of them on the outside. And you see this intense erosion, like this is tens of thousands of years of erosion. Well, what if it's 100,000? What the fuck is left? What if it's 200,000?

• 2:20:30Speaker 03

  What's left from 100,000 years ago? Maybe some stones, myths and spiritual traditions. Or 10,000 years ago. That's the only thing that makes it through cataclysms. The hu- human stories, spiritual traditions, and these megalithic stones.

• 2:20:48Speaker 02

  And a real cataclysm, if you're talking about the destruction of civilization itself, how many of those people even know the stories? How many live? How many scholars survive the apocalypse? How many? I mean, we know that 70,000 years ago, the Toba volcano, the supervolcano, wiped people out down to the point with less than 100,000 people on earth. It's just 70,000 years ago.

• 2:21:14Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:21:14Speaker 02

  100,000 people.

• 2:21:16Speaker 03

  We have been on the brink so many times.

• 2:21:18Speaker 02

  Can you imagine like one Eagles football game? Right? Take that crowd. That's the entire population of earth now.

• 2:21:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:21:25Speaker 02

  Right? One packed UT game. That's everybody on earth. And now we have to branch out and go to China and go to Africa and go everywhere. That's all the people on earth.

• 2:21:38Speaker 03

  That just shows how amazing and resilient we are.

• 2:21:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, and also fragile.

• 2:21:42Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:21:42Speaker 02

  You know, and, and also it really, it, it really shines a light on the preposterous nature of the conventional timeline. It really does. Cause it's like, look, guys, there's so much evidence that there's holes in the story.

• 2:21:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:21:58Speaker 02

  At what point in time do you stop and say, look, a lot of these people did great work and they made these conclusions based on the understanding that they had at the time, but as time has gone on, there's come a point where we have to reevaluate this. And if you don't reevaluate it, you're gonna lose all the respect of the people that are paying attention.

• 2:22:18Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 2:22:18Speaker 02

  Because there's too many people that are looking at this and saying, hey, no one's discounting or discrediting your work. No one's saying you're a bad person, you know? No one's saying you're an idiot. It's like, this is what we knew back then, but to say that this is all we know and any new information, as profound as it might be, like 1.2 kilometer structures underneath the great pyramids, like that doesn't mean that you're an idiot. It just means that this is an ongoing thing. It's not done.

• 2:22:46Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:22:47Speaker 02

  We haven't figured it out yet. And we're not going to for a long ass time. This is a long trek. And as LiDAR improves and as the radiotomography and all these different things that they come up with, and then imagine the advances 10, 20, 30 years from now in their ability to look, like, look at Sub-Saharan Africa.

• 2:23:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:23:06Speaker 02

  Very little expedition's been done there. And they're like, what?

• 2:23:09Speaker 03

  Let's lie to our Sub-Saharan Africa.

• 2:23:10Speaker 02

  There's whales there.

• 2:23:12Speaker 03

  I've seen the whales.

• 2:23:13Speaker 02

  Whales.

• 2:23:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:23:14Speaker 02

  Okay, so.

• 2:23:15Speaker 03

  They're incredible.

• 2:23:16Speaker 02

  What the fuck? You find whales in the desert. Okay, what else is out there?

• 2:23:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:23:19Speaker 02

  Is there a city under all that shit? Like, what is that? Like, what, what is in there?

• 2:23:25Speaker 03

  You know, it's funny though. You can reveal cities under the jungle and nobody talks about it.

• 2:23:30Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:23:31Speaker 03

  You know, they, they just did that in Cambodia. And it's not headline news around the world that there are entire cities being found in the Amazon jungle or in Cambodia. It just is one quick headline and then everybody ignores it.

• 2:23:44Speaker 02

  Well, it's good for us because it gives us great podcast content.

• 2:23:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:23:48Speaker 02

  You know, because like this is the only way people could find out about it. And again, it's science. The LiDAR scans of the Amazon are spectacular.

• 2:23:56Speaker 03

  Incredible.

• 2:23:57Speaker 02

  And you, you look at it and you go, oh my God, there was probably millions of people living here. This is not like a bunch of tribal people that are shooting bows and arrows all the time.

• 2:24:06Speaker 03

  They were engineering the rainforest.

• 2:24:08Speaker 02

  Ah, yeah. And it just, the fact that more people aren't talking about this is a little stunning to me. But I just think they don't get informed. And then they also assume, you know, you see some YouTube headline that's got big fancy font and, you know, people are older than we think. Like, oh, go on. I went to Cambridge. Fuck off.

• 2:24:30Speaker 03

  And you have a lot of AI stuff out there that's just complete bogus.

• 2:24:33Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm, yeah.

• 2:24:34Speaker 03

  You know, so, you know, it's hard to know what, what the truth is.

• 2:24:39Speaker 02

  Sure. And then there's a lot of weird stuff, like the Sage Wall in Montana.

• 2:24:43Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:24:44Speaker 02

  I've watched some videos on that. I'm not convinced. I, I think that might be a weird geological formation.

• 2:24:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24:51Speaker 02

  But it doesn't look like it. Parts of it really look like it's stacked stones.

• 2:24:56Speaker 03

  I think that, you know, during the Ice Age in North America, it was an extremely harsh time with walls of ice, right? So if, if the Younger Dryas happened the way that I believe it happened, North America would have been just almost wiped clean. You know, if, so if there were ancient structures here, they probably didn't survive the way that they did in Egypt and other places like that.

• 2:25:19Speaker 02

  Certainly not under the glaciers, right?

• 2:25:21Speaker 05

  What I just found?

• 2:25:22Speaker 02

  What'd you find?

• 2:25:23Speaker 05

  I see the middle of the desert here.

• 2:25:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:25:25Speaker 05

  I'm gonna zoom in. Desert, desert, desert, desert, desert, right?

• 2:25:31Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:25:33Speaker 05

  Until.

• 2:25:33Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 2:25:36Speaker 05

  An ancient fortress.

• 2:25:38Speaker 03

  How old is it?

• 2:25:38Speaker 05

  Up draw.

• 2:25:39Speaker 03

  How old do they say it is?

• 2:25:41Speaker 05

  No one knows what it is.

• 2:25:43Speaker 02

  What?

• 2:25:44Speaker 05

  Yeah, they, they're assuming that maybe it was a hiding place for Jews when they were being persecuted and, and taken out of there, but according to this, no explanation. It's just in the middle of the desert.

• 2:25:57Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 2:25:58Speaker 03

  Sand, straw and clay.

• 2:26:00Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 2:26:02Speaker 05

  Just in the, I look at the dunes. Imagine if it didn't just blown away.

• 2:26:05Speaker 02

  Imagine deciding to build there in the middle of nowhere.

• 2:26:09Speaker 03

  Why did they build there?

• 2:26:09Speaker 05

  What else is around it? You don't even know what's hiding underneath, next to it.

• 2:26:12Speaker 02

  God, what did it look like when it was first built? And what is it made out of? Sand? Stone? What is it made out of?

• 2:26:19Speaker 03

  It said sand and clay.

• 2:26:21Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 2:26:21Speaker 03

  Which means it's probably, it probably is newer.

• 2:26:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:26:25Speaker 05

  Sure, but at my point, this was like it's hiding under the desert and then just in the middle of nowhere and no one, I've never heard of it being brought up on here by anybody that's ever come through.

• 2:26:32Speaker 03

  One big sandstorm and that thing's gone.

• 2:26:33Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:26:34Speaker 03

  Buried.

• 2:26:35Speaker 02

  Look at all the sand too. Well, the crazy thing is to think that that sand was all jungle and before that it was ocean.

• 2:26:41Speaker 03

  I know.

• 2:26:42Speaker 02

  It's, it's so insane.

• 2:26:44Speaker 03

  Seeing the whales in the middle of the desert is a surreal experience.

• 2:26:47Speaker 02

  Surreal? Have you seen them in person?

• 2:26:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:26:49Speaker 02

  Oh!

• 2:26:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:26:50Speaker 02

  What is that? Like, how close they let you get?

• 2:26:52Speaker 03

  Oh, you just walk right up to them. There's just like little rocks on the ground outlining the skeletons. Yeah.

• 2:26:59Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 2:27:00Speaker 03

  But it's, you know, when we were driving out there, they were, they had securities concerns. So we had a security car in front of ours, then ours, and one behind us.

• 2:27:08Speaker 02

  Look how bonkers that is.

• 2:27:09Speaker 03

  Yeah. It, it looks like dragons.

• 2:27:13Speaker 03

  It's just otherworldly. It's so neat.

• 2:27:16Speaker 02

  That's so crazy.

• 2:27:17Speaker 03

  It's a long drive though. It's like a whole day.

• 2:27:19Speaker 02

  Well, the dragons thing is a weird one.

• 2:27:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:27:22Speaker 02

  Cause there's, uh, this is one of the things that the view made fun of me of. He said he believes in dragons.

• 2:27:28Speaker 02

  Joy Behar was saying that. So I put, I changed all of the headings of my social media account, Dragon Believer. Just, just that. Because I'm like, that's so funny.

• 2:27:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, you and millions of other people around the world in almost every ancient civilization believed in dragons.

• 2:27:43Speaker 02

  It's very odd. It's very odd that they all have this story of these ancient serpents. But, but also, they were really bad at their depictions of actual things. And one of the things that I pointed out to Jamie was when I visited Italy a few years ago, I went to this really old church, and they had this stone mosaic artwork that was of Noah. And was it Noah and the whale? No.

• 2:28:13Speaker 03

  Jonah.

• 2:28:13Speaker 02

  Jonah, Jonah and the whale. I think that's what it was. But this whale does not look like a whale. It looks really weird. It's this really weird looking thing that's supposed to represent a whale. Why? Because they never saw a whale. So like, they're, they're making their own version of what a whale.

• 2:28:29Speaker 03

  From the stories.

• 2:28:30Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:28:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:28:30Speaker 02

  See if you can find that. I know it's on my Instagram. Super old. I think it was probably 10 years ago. But whatever the fuck that is, like, okay, that's how they, that's it. Like, look at that thing. Isn't that dope?

• 2:28:44Speaker 03

  That doesn't look like a whale.

• 2:28:45Speaker 02

  Right, at all, right?

• 2:28:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:28:46Speaker 02

  But...

• 2:28:47Speaker 03

  Looks like a griffin.

• 2:28:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, it looks like some kind of a monster that lives in the ocean. So this is like their version of describing what a whale looks like, right?

• 2:28:57Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:28:57Speaker 02

  So when they're describing dragons, like, what are they really describing? Do they actually fly? Or are we talking about like crocodiles? Like, what are we talking about? Are we talking about like some sort of extinct dinosaurs that survived? And then, you know, they only made it for a few thousand years ago? Because there's things that we know existed during the human timeline, that they just don't exist anymore. They went extinct.

• 2:29:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:29:22Speaker 02

  You know, giant sloths, for instance. There's a bunch of North American animals. 65% in fact, of all North American megafauna, didn't make it after the Younger Dryas impact.

• 2:29:32Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:29:33Speaker 02

  So what is, what is the serpent? What is the dragon? Like, why, why did China have one? Why does Japan have one? Why does Eastern European have one? Why, why does so many ancient cultures talk about this one specific thing?

• 2:29:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:29:47Speaker 02

  And the Bible references it like 34 times.

• 2:29:50Speaker 03

  What's interesting, though, is in most of the ancient civilizations, the serpents or the dragons are meant to be guardian figures, right? So they were presented in a positive light. They weren't evil.

• 2:30:02Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:30:02Speaker 03

  But in the Bible, the serpent is actually the trickster. You know, so it's, it's one of the only traditions in the ancient world where the serpent is, it's suggested that the serpent is evil, evil.

• 2:30:15Speaker 02

  In Adam and Eve, in that depiction?

• 2:30:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, you know, he tricked Eve.

• 2:30:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:30:20Speaker 03

  But in front of all of the temples in Cambodia, there are giant naga, which is like the seven or nine-headed snakes. And they guard the liminal space between the outside world and the temples. So that, that's their purpose, right? They're, when you see a naga, it means you're entering, you're entering a temple, you're entering the zone of the gods. So it was always positive, except for in ancient Christianity.

• 2:30:46Speaker 05

  Yes, the King James Version is the version that says dragon, but it's probably a translation issue, maybe.

• 2:30:52Speaker 02

  Ah, interesting. So sea monster, serpent, translated in many modern versions as jackal, sea creature, or monster, depending on the context. But dragon often renders Hebrew terms like tanin, which is a sea monster or serpent. Interesting.

• 2:31:08Speaker 03

  Fire-breathing reptiles.

• 2:31:10Speaker 02

  But it's just, like, what were they? Like, why were there so many versions of this? Was that a real thing? And is it a real thing from 11,000 years ago? Is it a real thing from 20,000 years ago, 50,000 years ago? And again, when, when it comes to the fossil record, like, how much evidence would there be of that thing existing?

• 2:31:29Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:31:29Speaker 02

  They didn't even find dinosaurs until like, what, 1700s or something?

• 2:31:33Speaker 03

  Right. Yeah.

• 2:31:34Speaker 02

  Whenever it was. And then, there's a lot of people that think dinosaurs are fake, which is fun.

• 2:31:39Speaker 03

  There's all sorts of rabbit holes you can go down.

• 2:31:42Speaker 02

  It's a lot of fun. Well, they have a point in that a lot of what you go to see in the museum is not an actual dinosaur skeleton. It's a recreation.

• 2:31:51Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 2:31:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, because the actual skeletons are probably somewhere else. That is a fact. And then it's also the fact that they take like portions of it, and then they recreate what's missing, and then create a skeleton.

• 2:32:03Speaker 03

  Make a lot of assumptions.

• 2:32:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's a lot of assumptions.

• 2:32:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:32:06Speaker 02

  Well, this is why in the, the Science Museum in Bozeman, Montana, we talked about this before. I went there with my kids once, and they have a raptor. And on one side of the raptor, it's what we think of like from Jurassic Park, that it had like scaly skin, like a lizard. And the other side, it's covered in feathers.

• 2:32:25Speaker 03

  It's a bird.

• 2:32:25Speaker 02

  Which is, yeah, this is the alternative perspective.

• 2:32:28Speaker 05

  This is Gus, the most complete dinosaur, T-Rex skeleton, 61% complete, and it is for sale right now.

• 2:32:36Speaker 02

  Oh, how much does that cost?

• 2:32:37Speaker 05

  Do you want to guess?

• 2:32:38Speaker 03

  20 million.

• 2:32:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, no, more, more.

• 2:32:40Speaker 05

  You're taking, it's, the bids are going up.

• 2:32:42Speaker 02

  80 million.

• 2:32:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, that's the, I think the expected is somewhere in the 65 to 80 million range.

• 2:32:47Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 2:32:48Speaker 03

  Worth it.

• 2:32:48Speaker 02

  And 60% complete?

• 2:32:50Speaker 05

  61%, yeah.

• 2:32:51Speaker 02

  So that means you're getting 39% bullshit when you buy it?

• 2:32:53Speaker 05

  I don't, I think they've just left some of it out. I don't know that they'd filled it in all the way.

• 2:32:58Speaker 02

  Oh, okay, so that's what's left. That's actually what's, so there's some stuff missing?

• 2:33:02Speaker 03

  He doesn't have his little arms.

• 2:33:04Speaker 02

  He does. They're right there.

• 2:33:05Speaker 05

  See, there's some...

• 2:33:06Speaker 02

  Okay, some, some stuff?

• 2:33:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:33:09Speaker 02

  Some ribs and shit?

• 2:33:10Speaker 05

  That looks pretty...

• 2:33:10Speaker 02

  I don't know, it looks pretty complete. That looks pretty complete. That's sick. There was a house that I looked at that was for sale in Malibu once. And in the house, they, it came with a dinosaur. If you paid an extra million dollars, you get to keep the dinosaur.

• 2:33:26Speaker 03

  Really?

• 2:33:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, they had a raptor skeleton.

• 2:33:28Speaker 03

  That seems expensive.

• 2:33:29Speaker 02

  It was a little high, a little high. Well, the house is a little high. It was, it's probably worth 50 bucks now. Nobody wants to live there.

• 2:33:36Speaker 03

  I think a lot of times about what it would feel like to be hunted from the sky.

• 2:33:39Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 2:33:40Speaker 03

  Like the pterodactyls. Sometimes you'll be hiking in the desert, and you'll see a, you know, a hawk will fly over you, and you'll get that shadow.

• 2:33:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:33:47Speaker 03

  And just imagine if it's just this massive hunter, just coming for you. Nothing you can do.

• 2:33:52Speaker 02

  Right. When did those die off, too?

• 2:33:54Speaker 05

  Gus has some bite marks on his ribs.

• 2:33:57Speaker 02

  Whoa. That's crazy. I wonder if that's post-mortem.

• 2:34:02Speaker 05

  Fossilized bite marks.

• 2:34:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, that could have been somebody scavenging them.

• 2:34:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, could have been. So Trinidad, so the, so it's valued between 20 million and 30 million. The highest pre-sale estimate ever placed on dinosaur at auction.

• 2:34:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think there's already some higher bids than that, though, currently.

• 2:34:19Speaker 02

  I bet. There's a lot of dorks out there with a lot of money. Want that shit in that house.

• 2:34:24Speaker 05

  Sell next week.

• 2:34:25Speaker 03

  People love to touch history.

• 2:34:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. Elon's probably gonna have that shit at SpaceX.

• 2:34:29Speaker 03

  Oh, do you, do you want to touch some history?

• 2:34:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, sure. Yeah.

• 2:34:34Speaker 03

  Okay. I brought you a little show and tell.

• 2:34:37Speaker 02

  Okay. Ooh, exciting.

• 2:34:40Speaker 03

  So I grew up in Western Nebraska, on a giant corn farm. This is called a Jimmy Allen Point. This is 9,500 years old.

• 2:34:54Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 2:34:55Speaker 03

  It's a spear point. So it was being chipped basically when Gobekli Tepe was at the height of its building.

• 2:35:02Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 2:35:04Speaker 03

  8,500 to 9,500 years old. My grandpa had a load of rock delivered to his house, and that was in it. So they would dredge this, this river rock from the rivers, the Platte River, and deliver it to your house. And he found that in his yard.

• 2:35:21Speaker 02

  Holy shit.

• 2:35:22Speaker 03

  Isn't that an incredible experience?

• 2:35:25Speaker 02

  That's amazing.

• 2:35:26Speaker 03

  To touch it?

• 2:35:26Speaker 02

  That's amazing. I don't know how old this one is, but this is from here.

• 2:35:32Speaker 03

  Oh, yes. That's a pretty good one.

• 2:35:36Speaker 02

  This is actually better. This one's really good.

• 2:35:39Speaker 03

  That one's substantially older than this.

• 2:35:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:35:42Speaker 03

  I bet this is 2,000 years old. That one's almost 10.

• 2:35:45Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 2:35:46Speaker 03

  So I'm gonna show you something else. It's just a part of one, but this is part of a fulsome point.

• 2:35:52Speaker 02

  Ooh.

• 2:35:53Speaker 03

  Which is 12,700 years old. So that was definitely created to hunt something that's extinct now. You can see the flute up the middle, and the, look at the work on the sides of it.

• 2:36:07Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 2:36:10Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 2:36:11Speaker 03

  It's the most incredible stonework. And you see that over time. It went from Clovis to Folsom and then down the line to points like this. And it just, you know, became, yeah, so those are, this would have looked like that if it was full.

• 2:36:27Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 2:36:28Speaker 03

  You're seeing the central flute on this one. But both of these were found out on my farm.

• 2:36:34Speaker 02

  That's pretty amazing.

• 2:36:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, I saw you talking to Taylor Sheridan about arrowheads. And I thought to myself, I wonder if Joe would like to hold a 9,500 year old spearpoint.

• 2:36:44Speaker 02

  I did love it. Thank you. Thank you for letting me hold that. That's pretty dope. It's pretty incredible, too, when you think about the history of North America, that when Europe and China and all these other parts of the world had developed sophisticated civilizations and machines and all these different things, and these people were living a very nomadic hunter-gatherer life. Like essentially in the Stone Age, all the way up to the 16, 1700s until...

• 2:37:14Speaker 03

  Except for some of the mounds. So some of the mound structures, like in Louisiana, I think those are about 9,000 years old, I believe. And those are massive platforms, right? Like earthworks that are almost, at least unexplainable for why they would have built them.

• 2:37:30Speaker 02

  Do you think these are pre-flood?

• 2:37:32Speaker 03

  I don't, I don't think any of them have been dated to pre-flood.

• 2:37:35Speaker 02

  So this is post-flood, whoever was here. So if people lived here, so the White Sands, New Mexico footprints are all pre-flood. That's 22,000.

• 2:37:45Speaker 03

  23,000, yep.

• 2:37:47Speaker 02

  One thing that's interesting, those people were barefoot, right? So the question is, like, what was sophisticated civilization like in North America then? Because it seems like North America in particular, because of the fact that up until 11,000 years ago was covered in ice, most of North America was covered in like a mile high of ice.

• 2:38:09Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:38:09Speaker 02

  It's so hard for us to think. Chicago, gone.

• 2:38:12Speaker 03

  Can you imagine?

• 2:38:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, gone. Montana, gone. Yeah, everything's gone.

• 2:38:16Speaker 03

  A mile of ice.

• 2:38:17Speaker 02

  Colorado, gone.

• 2:38:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:38:18Speaker 02

  Everything's completely covered in a mile of ice. And then 11,000 years ago, it all goes away real quick. And then you have the Great Lakes. Yeah, which is so strange. And then if you look at, Randall Carlson's done an amazing job of like, sort of illuminating, like what kind of a mass of water it would have sent rushing through the entire country

• 2:38:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:38:44Speaker 02

  at the time that these things were almost instantaneously melted. Like how insane that must have been. If huge asteroidal impacts slammed into these ice caps.

• 2:38:54Speaker 05

  There's like two miles of ice looks like next to a city.

• 2:38:56Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 2:39:01Speaker 02

  That's so crazy that everything that we see when you drive through Kansas and Nebraska and Iowa, all that was under all that.

• 2:39:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, my husband's from North Idaho and you can see the, all of the ancient remains of these lakes, you know, these ice dams that burst.

• 2:39:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:39:19Speaker 03

  Just flowed over the landscape. And I think Randall Carlson is especially gifted in describing these events.

• 2:39:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:39:26Speaker 03

  Making it real for us.

• 2:39:27Speaker 02

  Well, he's obsessed.

• 2:39:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:39:29Speaker 02

  And he spent so much, when I met him, I met him in Georgia. Well, I did a show in Atlanta and I met him like 2005 or something like that. And he was explaining it to me back then. And I, and I had never heard that before. I was like, what? Like, that was my first introduction to the Younger Dryas impact theory. And that's when it started putting all the pieces together. Okay, well, that's what ended civilization. That's the, and that, and now that we know that that's a real event, because of core samples, because the, you know, they've been found, they find layers of iridium, which is very common in space, very rare on Earth, and these micro diamonds that appear when you have impacts.

• 2:40:06Speaker 03

  The black mat.

• 2:40:07Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:40:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:40:08Speaker 02

  They know that it happened. So some big events happened. I think they think 11,800 years ago, and then I think again, like 10,000 years ago, they think it happened more than once.

• 2:40:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:40:18Speaker 02

  Would kind of make sense that it took so long for civilization to reemerge.

• 2:40:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, and the question is, did that civilization that was alive at the time know that it was coming?

• 2:40:28Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:40:29Speaker 03

  And what did they do to prepare?

• 2:40:31Speaker 02

  Right. Or could they have been?

• 2:40:33Speaker 03

  And did they know that probably the only thing that was going to be left after that is stone?

• 2:40:38Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 2:40:39Speaker 03

  So what is encoded in that stone for us to read today?

• 2:40:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's the weirdness of things like Egypt. When you look at the pyramids and the dimensions and how the dimensions align with the, you know, the, the dimensions of Earth.

• 2:40:55Speaker 03

  Distances to the moon.

• 2:40:56Speaker 02

  And the distances to the moon. And yeah, it's all, the whole thing's very weird. It's very weird.

• 2:41:01Speaker 03

  It doesn't seem like coincidence.

• 2:41:02Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:41:03Speaker 03

  It seems like they knew exactly what they were doing. And what is the, you know, the one language that's going to survive? Geometry, math, right? Astrology.

• 2:41:13Speaker 02

  Right, it's universal.

• 2:41:14Speaker 03

  Stones are the things that are going to survive. Myths, right? So that, it's, it's messages being passed down to us today. And now people are looking and paying attention and just, it's, it's a complete obsession for me. I don't know how anybody thinks of anything else besides ancient history.

• 2:41:33Speaker 02

  Once I get into it, I feel the same way.

• 2:41:35Speaker 03

  It's just too amazing.

• 2:41:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:41:36Speaker 03

  It's too amazing.

• 2:41:38Speaker 02

  It's certainly a puzzle. And if it wasn't for people like you and other people that are doing similar things, most people would be very blissfully unaware of how nuts the, the actual physical history of the Earth is.

• 2:41:51Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yep. And, you know, until recently, a lot of this, first of all, people couldn't travel around the world. They couldn't, they couldn't read scripts that weren't in their language. Archaeologists were exploring sites and their papers were going to the universities. And so we didn't have the opportunity to see these global patterns the way that we do now. To, to link, okay, I see the same thing in Egypt that I see in India. Like this thousand ton statue is in India and it's also in Egypt. What about these walls? They're the same. I don't think it was as easy to do that back in the day. You know, even the people that were deep into the research in Egypt in the 1800s, they weren't traveling to Peru.

• 2:42:34Speaker 03

  So we are at a very unique time in history where we can look across all of it, especially in the next 10 years when we're leveraging AI and other technologies from space-based scanning or whatever. I, I think it's going to fundamentally change the way that we view the history of the world.

• 2:42:51Speaker 02

  I think so, too. And so, thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for your channel. And thank you for all, your interest in this, because it's absolutely fascinating.

• 2:43:00Speaker 03

  Thank you for having me on. This was so fun.

• 2:43:02Speaker 02

  My pleasure. Let's do it again.

• 2:43:03Speaker 03

  Okay, we'd love that.

• 2:43:04Speaker 02

  All right, thank you. Bye, everybody.

• 2:43:20Speaker 00

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