#2444 - Andrew Wilson

Andrew Wilson has participated in thousands of debates on political, cultural, and religious topics. He is the host of “The Crucible” and proprietor of its associated online school, Debate University.www.youtube.com/@The_Cruciblewww.rumble.com/c/TheCruciblewww.thecrucible.videowww.debateuniversity.com Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Don’t miss out on all the action this week at DraftKings! Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up using https://dkng.co/rogan or through my promo code ROGAN. GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, (800) 327-5050 or visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit https://ccpg.org (CT), or visit https://www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD). 21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). Pass-thru of per wager tax may apply in IL. 1 per new customer. Must register new account to receive reward Token. Must select Token BEFORE placing min. $5 bet to receive $300 in Bonus Bets if your bet wins. Min. -500 odds req. Token and Bonus Bets are single-use and non-withdrawable. Bet must settle by and Token expires 2/22/26. Bonus Bets expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: https://sportsbook.draftkings.com/promos. Ends 2/15/26 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:15Joe Rogan?

  Prove me wrong type things, you know, way before Charlie Kirk.

• 0:19Speaker 02

  To change my minds.

• 0:19Joe Rogan?

  Change my mind. What did Charlie say? Prove me wrong or something like that?

• 0:24Speaker 02

  It was something akin to that. My understanding was that essentially TPUSA ripped that idea off.

• 0:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 0:33Speaker 02

  From Crowder. Yeah. And then he would, I think he feels a lot of like responsibility for what happened with Kirk because...

• 0:46Joe Rogan?

  Is he the Mossad?

• 0:47Speaker 02

  What's that?

• 0:48Joe Rogan?

  Is he the Mossad?

• 0:49Speaker 02

  Is he the Mossad? Yeah, exactly. That's so funny.

• 0:53Speaker 02

  I don't know. If you got Candace's number, we can ask her. We can ask her.

• 0:57Joe Rogan?

  Candace is getting, uh, she's getting dragged on Twitter today because she's like, I've lived in Connecticut. I've never seen this much ice on trees and it's 30 degrees out and everybody's like, yeah, 30 is freezing.

• 1:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's so funny. Ice on trees. Do you see all the Miss Cleo memes?

• 1:18Joe Rogan?

  Miss Cleo?

• 1:19Speaker 02

  It's so funny. You don't remember the Miss Cleo?

• 1:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh, the psychic?

• 1:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, the psychic. They keep on putting the Miss Cleo memes out for Candace because she's a psychic, you know?

• 1:28Joe Rogan?

  That's hilarious.

• 1:31Speaker 02

  It is funny.

• 1:33Joe Rogan?

  I think this lighter just shit the bed. Can I borrow that one? Thank you. Yeah.

• 1:38Speaker 02

  It's really funny.

• 1:40Joe Rogan?

  Well, Candace has painted herself into a weird corner where everything has to be a wild conspiracy. Like it has to be Bridget McCron's a man.

• 1:48Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:48Joe Rogan?

  Erica Kirk killed Charlie. It has to like one up the last one, you know?

• 1:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. I was, it's really funny. He came to the same conclusion that I did. So it's like, I've seen those conspiracy channels come up before and then they come up and they crash out. And the reason is, is because like for her, I think she had the whole like, um...

• 2:13Speaker 02

  She was involved with this, right? She was involved intricately with Kirk. She knew him.

• 2:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:18Speaker 02

  And so that gave a lot of credibility to a lot of the things that she was saying. But then when she start moving back into like Mandela effect stuff and, and you know, time travel and this and that.

• 2:28Joe Rogan?

  Time travel.

• 2:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, people are like, ah.

• 2:32Joe Rogan?

  I mean, you could do that if you're that guy, if you're Art Bell, you know, if you will.

• 2:37Speaker 02

  Well, you know, but Bell, I remember, I used to listen to Bell all the time.

• 2:40Joe Rogan?

  He's the goat. That's why I got him up on the wall over there.

• 2:42Speaker 02

  You remember that intro? Boom, boom, boom.

• 2:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:44Speaker 02

  Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Yeah, so.

• 2:46Joe Rogan?

  From the kingdom of Nye.

• 2:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I remember, I remember listening to him for years when I'd drive around with my dad.

• 2:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:54Speaker 02

  He was a, like, it was a big deal. And I remember the very first episode I heard from him, it was something about the NIM. It was like.

• 3:01Joe Rogan?

  What's the NIM?

• 3:02Speaker 02

  The NIM were like, this guy called in, he was a time traveler. All right? And he came back in time because his whole, his, his whole thing was like, he had to stop the weathered patterns from destroying the future because the NIM, an alien race of grays, had come and they were heating up the planet slowly to change it to be the conditionals that were necessary for them to then live on the planet. And you know, Art Bell, he's always playing into it with the lunatics, you know, and he's like, "And does the CIA currently know that you're there doing this?" You know?

• 3:36Speaker 02

  And the dude's just like, "Uh."

• 3:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Art would give you all the rope.

• 3:43Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:43Joe Rogan?

  You could call up Art, "I'm a werewolf." Interesting.

• 3:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, did you ever hear the Bigfoot episode?

• 3:49Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 3:49Speaker 02

  Oh my God, that's the funniest episode you'll ever hear. It's redneck, calls into Art Bell and talks about how he killed Bigfoot and where he buried it. And the guy has, it's like, I don't know if it was early trolling, like before trolling was trolling, but it was like this guy, he was like, "Yep, you know, me and Timmy, we, we took him out back there, we shot him right in the chest twice and, uh, there was some young'uns and they spread out a little bit and then we, you know, we packed up the Bigfoot and buried him in the backyard." And Bell's just like, "And you said there was young'uns."

• 4:21Joe Rogan?

  The Bigfoot people are the weirdest. Duncan Trussell and I went hunting for Bigfoot once. We did this, I used to do this TV show for a while called Joe Rogan Questions Everything. And I'd be like, alright, tell me about chemtrails. You know, and I'd go meet with all the loons and all the people that are like really involved, UFO, anything like that. And we went and hung out with the Bigfoot people. So we went Bigfoot hunting for like two days in the Pacific Northwest and talked to all these people. And they're all like the same person. I just said it's like a team of unfuckable white guys. It's like, that's what you find. Like these guys are just like, they found their calling. It's just like, looking for a mystery in the woods that you'll never solve.

• 5:04Speaker 02

  Well, the, there was a guy I used to have on your podcast, and he was, he was huge for a long time. And I think it still is. It's, remember those missing cases?

• 5:13Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 5:13Speaker 02

  Right? That was, that's a big deal. And I was always like, anytime I heard anything about that, I always was enthralled with it because some of the stories were demented.

• 5:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 5:22Speaker 02

  You know, like kids appearing 500 miles away and all this. But that guy always had you edged because people would always go, what do you think's going on? You know, and he'd go-

• 5:31Joe Rogan?

  What was that guy's name?

• 5:32Speaker 02

  I can't, I can't remember it, but it was like, missing?

• 5:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 5:37Speaker 02

  Four, four one one?

• 5:38Joe Rogan?

  Four one one.

• 5:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, missing four one one.

• 5:40Joe Rogan?

  Who's, I've seen him on Instagram or on Twitter.

• 5:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  He, but he got all the park records, you know, and he started going through and he was like, uh, there's some really weird stuff going on here for how many people are missing in national parks.

• 5:53Joe Rogan?

  There is, there is, but the reality is if you die in the woods, you get consumed pretty quick. That's the reality. That's why you don't find mountain lion skeletons. Mountain lions are a real thing. I've never found a dead mountain lion skeleton in all the times I've been hunting. Never, not once. You'll find elk bones, you know, you'll find stuff like that.

• 6:15Speaker 02

  I found some coyote, coyote skeletons before, out in the Nevada desert.

• 6:19Joe Rogan?

  But mountain lions are a real thing. You very, very, very, very, very rarely find a dead mountain lion.

• 6:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:26Joe Rogan?

  And there's so many of them. Now, think about how few people actually go like hiking into the deep wilderness. Your body just gets consumed.

• 6:35Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 6:35Joe Rogan?

  You know, there's so many animals that come along, rats, all kinds of things, eat your bones.

• 6:40Speaker 02

  Boy, that's a free meal.

• 6:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's so easy.

• 6:42Speaker 02

  And they can smell it for miles.

• 6:44Joe Rogan?

  Sure, bears, anywhere, there's wild pigs, and then it's over. Then there's nothing left.

• 6:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, they can smell that stuff for miles.

• 6:50Joe Rogan?

  But it's like, people always want to attach some crazy, deeper, weird, you know, UFO, Bigfoot meaning to it. It's like, no, that's, you're in the wild, and nature has a whole plan for dead things, and it does a really good job of consuming them. Not at all.

• 7:06Speaker 02

  Well, that's the thing, if you live out in the country, it's, you see this all the time. Uh, you know, raccoon will be around, getting in someone's trash, they'll walk out, bam, raccoon's done, they just go throw it in the bushes.

• 7:16Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:17Speaker 02

  You don't need, that's it.

• 7:18Joe Rogan?

  That's it, yeah.

• 7:20Speaker 02

  Problem solved.

• 7:21Joe Rogan?

  Problem solved, and it disappears quickly, and the plants consume it, and that's it. It rots, and things eat it.

• 7:28Speaker 02

  Doesn't even take that long to rot. It's just gone.

• 7:31Joe Rogan?

  It's pretty quick. You ever seen like those time lapse photos where they take a dead animal and they let it sit there, and you watch it get consumed by maggots? It's very quick.

• 7:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:40Joe Rogan?

  So these poor people that go hiking, you know, like if you go hiking and you're by yourself, and you break an ankle, and you're 15 miles in, and you don't have a compass, and you're kind of like roughly judging which hill you came over, and there's a lot of people that just get ahead of themselves, and they really shouldn't be that far out there, and they just die. Happens all the time.

• 8:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:03Joe Rogan?

  You know, so like this idea that it's like, there's, you could... If you look at all the data and you try to find a pattern to it and you start imagining that there's some grand conspiracy, that some watcher in the woods that's consuming people, some demon that's out there, you can, you can get pretty kooky with your ideas.

• 8:23Speaker 02

  I think the popular theory is it's wild men.

• 8:25Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wild men?

• 8:26Speaker 02

  Wild men.

• 8:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh, like humans?

• 8:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, or some human variant that are...

• 8:31Joe Rogan?

  That's what this guy, this 411 guy believes?

• 8:33Speaker 02

  I'm not sure because he won't say. They don't, he doesn't, he doesn't actually give his, here's what I think is going on. But people ask him and he's like, well, I have my theories, but he never tells you actually what the theories are.

• 8:48Joe Rogan?

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• 11:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, like those guys that used to be in the 90s, who were saying that we were going underground and killing the Nephilim. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Those guys were great. You're going down, it's like, God, man, and they were giants. They had three rows of teeth, and your special forces are going down there and taking them out.

• 12:03Joe Rogan?

  There's a whole group of people that believe that there's underground creatures that live underground and come out at night, and there's always been like these...

• 12:10Speaker 02

  Cryptids?

• 12:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, whatever they are, you know, people, some people think the grays live underground. You know, there's like, there's not a lot of mystery left. You know, outside of places like the Amazon, the Congo that are super deep to get to. Not a whole lot of mystery left in terms of life.

• 12:28Speaker 02

  Maybe ocean depths.

• 12:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, ocean depths for sure.

• 12:32Speaker 02

  That's like the whole new unexplored frontier, right? It's ocean depths.

• 12:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 12:37Speaker 02

  Anytime I turn on the TV, it's like, uh, look at this crazy creature. I'm like, that doesn't exist. And I look it up, I'm like, wait, that exists? I saw one the other day, tweeted out, I was like, the Mendel effect has to be real. It was a, it's called a Siberian mule deer. You ever seen a Siberian mule deer?

• 12:52Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 12:53Speaker 02

  They have fangs.

• 12:54Joe Rogan?

  Oh, right. I, I have seen a fang deer. I forget what they call it. Apparently, that's the, uh, you know, do you know what elk ivories are?

• 13:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's, it used to be like a tusk, like way, way back in the day.

• 13:08Speaker 02

  It's so retarded looking, dude.

• 13:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the, the fang deer, yeah, they're weird. It's very strange.

• 13:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:14Joe Rogan?

  I wonder what they were there for?

• 13:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, there's, I found a video, cause I was like, no way, dude, do these things exist? I thought I was being memed, you know, so. I always look, and this thing is real. So I found a video of them fighting, and they use those things as weapons.

• 13:28Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that makes sense. That's the only thing that makes sense. Like gorillas, the gorillas don't eat meat. Yeah, they have these massive fangs. You know, it's, nature's weird. So much variation, you know? There's so many different types of life. It's, and the, the fact that they all sort of synchronize, like this one eats that one, and that one eats this one, and this one, he lives there, and that one lives there. It's like, very fascinating when you really look at the, just a wide variety of species that exist.

• 13:58Speaker 02

  Well, most people don't know anything about it. Like, most people have never, every, we live in such a comfortable world. That is completely guarded from everything that's out there. And it's like, if people had a taste of out there.

• 14:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 14:15Speaker 02

  And I think that the worldview of many, many people would change very quickly, especially feminists. I think that feminists would immediately stop being feminists if they just had a taste of like, well, you know, people actually did have to shut themselves up at night from wolves.

• 14:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 14:28Speaker 02

  That was a real thing. Wolves would come in and eat you, and so you would shut yourself in so that that didn't happen.

• 14:34Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's gone so far the other way that fucking retards are bringing wolves into places.

• 14:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know.

• 14:41Joe Rogan?

  It is so dumb. You know, I have a good friend.

• 14:44Speaker 02

  Didn't they take it over like in Yellowstone or someplace? They reintroduced wolves and it just decimated the deer population?

• 14:50Joe Rogan?

  The elk population, but that's actually arguable that that might have been a good thing. Um, in some ways because it was getting to elk need natural predators and mountain lions can only kill so many elk. Um, but what's really interesting is mountain lions kill way more elk when wolves are around. Cause the wolves find the mountain lions and take their elk. And so then the, the mountain lions have to go kill another deer or you know, whatever.

• 15:18Speaker 02

  Why, why like just issue more hunting elk permits though? Like why do that?

• 15:22Joe Rogan?

  Well, you have to have some natural predators in, in a good, healthy ecosystem. And there's a good argument, particularly in Montana, that at one point in time, it had gotten to a, a, a point where you're going to have like rampant disease. Because they were, they were issuing these, uh, they're issuing like unlimited or a large amount of tags for people in the mid winter. So that you can catch these elk in deep snow and just peck them off because they were having so many of them. And that they, they weren't sustainable, that they were hitting these massive populations. So their populations are down to like,

• 15:59Joe Rogan?

  I want to say less than 40% of what they were at their peak when they brought in the wolves. But the problem is these wolves, like what they did in Colorado recently is the dumbest of all time. Because they brought these fucking wolves outside of Aspen and they took wolves from Washington state, Washington state or Oregon. But whatever it was, these, these wolves from the Pacific Northwest were wolves that already had been killing cattle. So they captured these wolves instead of killing them and then they relocated them to Aspen where they're killing cattle. So they, they relocated them onto my buddy's ranch. Like there's five of them.

• 16:37Speaker 02

  And he had a cattle ranch, did he?

• 16:39Joe Rogan?

  He didn't have, he doesn't have cattle on his ranch, but his fucking neighbors do.

• 16:42Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 16:42Joe Rogan?

  And his neighbors are losing cattle left and right and he's, and so now they've killed off a couple of them and they're trying to. It was a disaster and it's because the governor, the governor's husband, he's a wildlife lover and he thinks it would be amazing if we had wolves.

• 16:59Speaker 02

  You ever talk to those old deer hunters in Michigan?

• 17:02Joe Rogan?

  In Michigan?

• 17:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, they've been pissed off for, like, every deer hunter I know in Michigan has been pissed off, is a native, for years because they all, they all used to shoot pheasant. That was the big deal in Michigan was pheasant.

• 17:13Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:14Speaker 02

  And then, here's the story I heard, I don't know if it's true or not, right? But the DNR, the Department of Natural Resources, imported a bus, a bunch of western coyotes in order to thin out the deer population because the deer population was basically mangling all these farm crops.

• 17:33Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy.

• 17:34Speaker 02

  And those, now that's an all-you-can-eat buffet for a coyote in Nevada, these ground birds that are just these fat, fat little ground birds and they decimated the popu-, so you'll talk to these old deer hunters, "Have you seen any pheasant?" "No, shut up." "Shut up."

• 17:52Joe Rogan?

  The interesting thing about that, though, is pheasant's an invasive species. That's not a natural North American species either. They brought those fuckers over and they are delicious.

• 18:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:01Joe Rogan?

  And it's fun to hunt them.

• 18:02Speaker 02

  Well, they'd always just walk those train tracks, those old abandoned train tracks, you know, and they'd have the dogs, dogs kick up the pheasant, they'd shoot them from the track, dog would ring it up, that was like a Michigan pastime.

• 18:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the coyote thing's a real problem because coyotes are now, they used to be a western animal and now they're in all 50 states. Not only that, they're in virtually every city in America.

• 18:23Speaker 02

  Well, they've been wiping them out in Michigan pretty good in rural areas, oh yeah. Well, what they do now is they have the GPS trackers, put them on the dogs. Old boys will get in with AR-15s, those dogs will run them for 200 miles and then they finally take a shot and they just will do that all winter long, man.

• 18:39Joe Rogan?

  That's good, but it's hard to wipe them out because what they do is, you know, when you hear coyotes calling, it's like roll call. Like when they, "Ahhhh!" They're letting, sometimes, there's a lot of confusion to what they're doing. Some people think that they're letting the other coyotes know that they've killed something, that we have food, but it's also a roll call. And when one of the coyotes is missing, the females have more pups.

• 19:02Speaker 02

  Really?

• 19:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, some weird natural reaction. Also, their natural enemy is gray wolves. And when they evolved, they evolved to when the gray wolves kill them, because the gray wolves don't breed with coyotes. But coyotes do breed with red wolves. That's why you have these like coy wolves on the east coast.

• 19:20Speaker 02

  Just like coyotes.

• 19:21Joe Rogan?

  Coyote is a wolf. It's a wolf. It's just a small wolf. And so their natural inclination is when they're getting chased, they move to a new area and then they have even more pups. So that's how they've spread out through the entire country. So if you go back to like the turn of the century, like the nineteen hundreds, coyotes were exclusively a western animal.

• 19:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:42Joe Rogan?

  Now they're in New York City.

• 19:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're everywhere.

• 19:44Joe Rogan?

  Just it's crazy. They have them in Central Park. They have fucking coyotes running around Central Park. Some lady this morning posted on X a mountain lion in San Francisco, sitting on a porch in the city of San Francisco, a big one, just sitting there. It's like.

• 20:00Speaker 02

  Just having a good time.

• 20:02Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's just because California has the dumbest fucking laws when it comes to those things.

• 20:06Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, they have terrible gun laws too. They have terrible.

• 20:08Joe Rogan?

  They have terrible laws.

• 20:09Speaker 02

  They have terrible laws, period.

• 20:10Joe Rogan?

  They have terrible laws, terrible everything.

• 20:12Speaker 02

  Terrible politicians.

• 20:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 20:13Speaker 02

  You know what's a shame too? Like I grew up in Santa Rosa and that's the most beautiful area. The Napa Valley area is the most beautiful area on planet earth. The weather's always perfect. It's January fifteenth, it might as well be July fifteenth.

• 20:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 20:30Speaker 02

  Right? It's always perfect. It's always gorgeous and they fucked it all up.

• 20:34Joe Rogan?

  They fucked it all up.

• 20:35Speaker 02

  They fucked it all up.

• 20:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 20:36Speaker 02

  And they fucked it up real bad too.

• 20:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's on almost unfixable now, especially like San Francisco area. Like the whole Pacific Northwest is almost unfixable. It's like they double down and they keep going, like Seattle now has a communist mayor.

• 20:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:54Joe Rogan?

  Who's been living with her parents.

• 20:55Speaker 02

  Well, New York had, they all got communist mayors. Black Lives Matter had, they were, their head organizers, they were communist, avowed communist, like.

• 21:04Joe Rogan?

  Until it came to buying property with Black Lives Matter money.

• 21:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:07Joe Rogan?

  What's happening with that?

• 21:08Speaker 02

  Well, then they're, then they're very much capitalistic.

• 21:10Joe Rogan?

  How come they're not in trouble? I don't understand that. Like they spent millions of dollars of that money on real estate.

• 21:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:18Joe Rogan?

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• 22:01Speaker 03

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• 22:30Speaker 02

  What's going on? No idea. I've no idea why, well, I don't, I don't know why the, the heads of many of these organizations aren't being rounded up and summarily arrested. Yeah. I mean, if we're watching these, I've been covering the riots non-stop. Mm-hmm. I'm sorry, protests. The, the completely organic protests, which are totally organic. Yeah. And it's been interesting to watch. I was watching one the other day. We were live and it was Don Lemon. And he had showed up in Minnesota and the first thing Don Lemon does, right? I hate Don Lemon, by the way, but the first thing he does- He is one of the dumbest motherfuckers that has ever gotten on television. He's terrible. First thing he does, he gets, he drives up in this car, he's in the backseat and he jumps out of the car and he has this shit-eating lemon smile on his face, you know, and he

• 23:14Speaker 02

  runs over with Starbucks to these people and he's like, "Here you go." Yeah. And then he jumps back in the car, right? And they drive off. Now, here's, here's what's interesting about this. He comes back and he's in there with the protesters, you know what I mean? And he's interviewing them. Most of the protesters are saying, "We're coming from out of town." We're from this state. I'm from two states away. I'm from three states away, you know, for this totally organic protest. Well, the cops, what they start doing, they have these guardrails on the sidewalk in front of the ICE facility. And there's gaps inside of that barrier. And so they pull their police cruisers in just to fill those gaps so that they stay behind the barrier. And Lemon's like, why would they do that? Why would they, why would they keep us compressed, you know, behind this barrier?

• 23:58Speaker 02

  And I'm thinking, because you just stopped your car in the middle of the street to run across the road and give these guys Starbucks, you idiot. You know, they want to keep the roadway clear so that they can get their people in and out. You literally stopped your car in the middle of the road, ran across the street to give these people Starbucks. And then got back in your car and you're like, why, why is it that they're trying to keep, keep us from getting into the road? You know, I'm like, what are you talking about? I just couldn't believe it. I was like, what?

• 24:24Joe Rogan?

  It's amazing when these people that are so smug, well, they're protected by a large organization, by CNN. And then they get fired. And then they get, they're, they're basically like, like a dog, like Carl, getting released into the woods. And then they have to fend for themselves. And you see them in the world of podcasting where you don't have anybody writing things for you. And you have to express your own opinions. You're like, oh, this is the real you.

• 24:53Speaker 02

  It turns out, you're a moron. That, wow, I didn't know. Whoa. You know, the whole time, Matt, you're thinking the whole time, you know, I never thought I'd be an entertainer. I didn't think I'd do anything with podcast, never, never in a million years. I never would have thought that.

• 25:06Joe Rogan?

  You were, what were you, an engineer or a robotics guy?

• 25:09Speaker 02

  Robotics mechanic, yeah.

• 25:10Joe Rogan?

  A robotics mechanic?

• 25:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:12Joe Rogan?

  How did you get involved in that?

• 25:14Speaker 02

  Uh, well, I was a, I was a gunsmith for years. And there, there's no real applicable skills outside of that for anything, actually. There, it doesn't really carry over in anything. It's really its own thing. You know, bluing, things like, it just doesn't carry over. Um, a friend of mine said, hey, look, because I told him, I was like, I need a job. Um, you know, I, I'm, I'm not making it. What do you, what do you think? He's like, you know, you should apply to be an industrial mechanic. And I was like, I don't know much about it. You know, he's like, well, just go apply. So I did, took nap to test. And so, uh, the guy was like, well, I want to hire you at a level three, which was high, high, you know, it was like mid-range, wasn't the highest, wasn't the lowest.

• 25:56Speaker 02

  I was like, damn, okay, you know, what's the pay? He's like, it was like thirty an hour. You know, that to me was was life changing. So I took the job and I got, I didn't know what the hell I was doing, but they trained me up well. And then there were some robots on the floor and I started working on those and then from there they trained me in robotics. And so it was, it was all done on site.

• 26:17Joe Rogan?

  What kind of automation, like?

• 26:19Speaker 02

  Automation, yeah, automation and it was all food related.

• 26:21Joe Rogan?

  Food related?

• 26:22Speaker 02

  Mm hmm, all food robots, yep. So we weren't dealing with Johnny Five, we were dealing with like vacuum systems and ovens and various robots which were associated with those, like for instance, there was a packaging machine that would, all it would do is form boxes. That's all it did, it just, that's it. But it would form, you know, a thousand boxes a minute. And it was, it was a giant robot and it had a huge sequence of functions on it, you know. When people think robot, they always think humanoid. But almost no robot is, is in any way humanoid at all, you know, they're, they're, that's just not what they're for.

• 26:56Joe Rogan?

  It is weird, right, that we think of robots as like movie robots, we think of iRobot.

• 27:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, if you came across a robot in a factory, you would have no idea it was a robot. You'd be like, what the hell was that?

• 27:09Joe Rogan?

  So how did you go from that to debating people online?

• 27:13Speaker 02

  Uh, covid. So, yeah, the lockdowns happened and I was laid off. Then all the food plants in Michigan were shut down, especially the meat plants. And that's where I was, I was in the meat plants. And they all shut down. Because of the draconian restrictions of one Gretchen Whitmer. And anyway, while she was out with, you know, on a boat, partying with, you know, with her honey, we were all locked out of work, right? So.

• 27:41Joe Rogan?

  Familiar story.

• 27:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, we had the stay at home orders and I would argue with these dumb liberals on Facebook. And, and they, oh man, they pissed me off. And so I started crashing their panels. And I would debate with them. And, you know, I had a lot to say. And those things started to become more and more popular and they would move over to YouTube, people would clip it. And I started getting invited on to do debates with other people. And I didn't know who these people were, it wasn't my world. Like I didn't know who any of these podcasters were, you know, stuff like that. I'd listen to it maybe occasionally, online, but like I, I couldn't have told you who like Vosh was or Destiny or any of these people, like I didn't know who any of them were. And I didn't care. To me, it was just some other dumb, smug liberal, you know? So, um, that's where I got my start.

• 28:26Speaker 02

  I never would have foreseen at all that I'd be sitting here with you.

• 28:30Joe Rogan?

  That's so, well, I never would have foreseen I would have been here either.

• 28:34Speaker 02

  It's weird, huh?

• 28:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was weird, very weird.

• 28:36Speaker 02

  And I'll never get used to it.

• 28:38Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 28:38Speaker 02

  People walk over and they're like, "You're Andrew Wilson!" And I'm like, "I'm fucking nobody," you know what I mean? But it's nice to meet you, you know? Shake their hand, you have a chat with them. Uh, I'll never get used to it.

• 28:49Joe Rogan?

  No, you probably shouldn't. It's probably better to not get, I'm not used to it.

• 28:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's probably better to not be used to it. Keep you sane.

• 28:57Speaker 02

  And maybe keep you humble.

• 28:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you need something, you need something to keep you humble. We all know people that did not have something that kept them humble and they lost their way. The wheels fall off.

• 29:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, those are marbles.

• 29:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 29:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, especially as you get more and more famous. It becomes more and more unmanageable.

• 29:17Speaker 02

  I was, I feel like I'm pretty well-grounded, uh, due to the fact that, um, I didn't come from a political background. There's no famous people in my family, you know? There's just none of that. And so I feel like the grounding's always there because, uh, you know, even, even from the family, you get the call, like, from, from my brother, for instance, like, he's been calling me the, I don't know if he can say the F slur here, so I won't, but he's been calling, yeah, faggot, he's been, you know, he's been like, the, the phone call since I was 15. "What are you doing, faggot?" Has not changed.

• 29:46Joe Rogan?

  Good.

• 29:47Speaker 02

  It has not changed, you know, since I was 42, he's like, "Happy birthday, faggot."

• 29:52Joe Rogan?

  That's normal.

• 29:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:54Joe Rogan?

  I remember you were having a conversation, I think it was on Pierce Morgan, who is the best cat wrangler in the business. That's what he does, he cat wrangles.

• 30:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, I just talked to him briefly.

• 30:03Joe Rogan?

  Is he okay?

• 30:04Speaker 02

  On it, well, that's what I asked him. I just said, I sent him a DM and I was like, hey, man.

• 30:08Joe Rogan?

  For people who don't know, he fell.

• 30:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, he fell.

• 30:10Joe Rogan?

  And really fucked himself up.

• 30:11Speaker 02

  And it was the hip.

• 30:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 30:12Speaker 02

  And at his age, the hip. You know, you don't wanna, nothing with the hip. Every time I see anybody who's 60s. They get the hip injury. It's it's bad.

• 30:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's not good. I think they they think your lifespan at post hip surgery is like ten years.

• 30:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's right.

• 30:31Joe Rogan?

  He'll probably be better than that.

• 30:32Speaker 02

  He will, and I think he's mobile.

• 30:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's good.

• 30:35Speaker 02

  He's mobile.

• 30:35Joe Rogan?

  But they're really good at hip replacements now.

• 30:38Speaker 02

  I was like, what's, you know, are you are you doing? He's like, yeah, you know, I'm I'm doing OK. And and I was like, don't fuck around with the hips, dude.

• 30:45Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy that he had to have a hip replacement. Like, how bad was that fall?

• 30:49Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, I don't know. I don't know what the details of it were, but.

• 30:53Joe Rogan?

  It felt like a sack of spuds, he wrote. Wound up needing a new hip after fracturing the neck of his femur. And is recovering from surgery. In addition to be on crutches for six weeks, he won't be allowed to take any long haul flights for at least twelve weeks. He tripped on a small step inside of a lust, a London restaurant. Wow.

• 31:12Speaker 02

  In the tumble. You think he was drunk?

• 31:14Joe Rogan?

  He could have been a little fired up.

• 31:15Speaker 02

  A little drunk?

• 31:16Joe Rogan?

  Well, he's also, you know, not the most fit or agile guy in the world.

• 31:20Speaker 02

  True.

• 31:21Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 31:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:22Joe Rogan?

  He's only two years older than me.

• 31:23Speaker 02

  No way.

• 31:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 31:25Speaker 02

  Really?

• 31:25Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm. Isn't that crazy?

• 31:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, damn.

• 31:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, some people don't take care of themselves.

• 31:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, he got he got the crack. Yeah, I gotta quit these. But yeah, he got the crack on the on the hip. And I was like, man.

• 31:37Joe Rogan?

  Do you think that American spirits are better than Marlboros for you?

• 31:42Speaker 02

  Probably.

• 31:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 31:44Speaker 02

  But they taste like shit.

• 31:45Joe Rogan?

  Do they? Is there a difference?

• 31:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:47Joe Rogan?

  You really like the Marlboro taste?

• 31:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:49Joe Rogan?

  You don't think you get used to American spirits?

• 31:50Speaker 02

  I think I could. I've been trying the Cigarellos. Those have been helpful, like the little mini cigarette cigars.

• 31:57Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, Ron White used to smoke those.

• 31:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:59Joe Rogan?

  He just quit totally. He went to a hypnotist, quit instantaneously. But those are loaded with nicotine, like way more nicotine than a cigarette. He was smoking those.

• 32:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, good.

• 32:12Joe Rogan?

  Little tins. We have those. What are those tins, Jamie? Do you know what they're? It's like a like a famous cigar company sells tins of these little tiny cigars. And it's great if you don't have the time to smoke this, like you get out of a flight, just wanna have a small. But he inhales these motherfuckers like a cigarette.

• 32:31Speaker 02

  That's brutal dude. That'll do you in. And then washes it down with whiskey.

• 32:36Joe Rogan?

  Well, he doesn't drink anymore either. He quit drinking, yeah. I think he went.

• 32:41Speaker 02

  That was always in his bit though. He was always up there smoking and drinking and I always thought, I love that.

• 32:46Joe Rogan?

  Well, he did it. He did it till the wheels fell off and then the drinking was the big one. You know, he went to a doctor and the doctor's like, you're gonna die. Like your liver is not in good shape. Like if you back off now, you'll probably live. If you don't, you're not, you got like a few years left.

• 33:04Speaker 02

  On alcoholics too, they have it. I don't know if he was one or not. He might've just been like a heavy social drinker, but like real alcoholics, that's no way to live.

• 33:12Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 33:13Speaker 02

  I mean, they stink. They they're like, I mean, kinda everything about a real alcoholic is just they look completely unwell. They're just kinda mangled, you know?

• 33:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's a weird disease too, in that that addiction is one that you can't quit. You can't just cold turkey.

• 33:32Speaker 02

  You'll die.

• 33:32Joe Rogan?

  You'll die. There's only a couple of things that'll just kill you if you quit right away. And alcohol's one of them, which is really crazy, cuz it gets integrated into your biological system where you need it to stay alive. Your body's like, okay, we're gonna use this for fuel, gonna use this to function.

• 33:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, they've been weaning people off alcohol with beer for centuries.

• 33:52Joe Rogan?

  Is that what they use? Beer?

• 33:53Speaker 02

  They used beer. They would just go, okay, well, it was pretty common to drink beer and ale with dinner.

• 33:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 33:59Speaker 02

  They just weenie off with beer.

• 34:01Joe Rogan?

  That makes sense.

• 34:01Speaker 02

  They knew, they knew hundreds of years ago, there were books on how alcohol, you know, what are they, consumption or whatever they called it. Uh, they killed you if you just if you just quit, if you were an alcoholic. And so they weenie off with beer.

• 34:14Joe Rogan?

  Wonder when they started making hard liquor? Cuz you would imagine like fermented things like wine and beer were like the first things that people consumed.

• 34:24Speaker 02

  I think it's been around for thousands. I mean, several thousand years.

• 34:27Joe Rogan?

  I wonder. I wonder like how they figured it out.

• 34:29Speaker 02

  I mean, the biggest, the biggest, what was it, the biggest distributor in Europe of wine was the Catholic Church.

• 34:35Joe Rogan?

  Well, wine has certainly been around forever, but like, what about hard liquor? Jimmy, put that into our sponsor, Perplexity. When was the first known? I mean, we don't really know because there's so much weird shit about history. But like, what was the first in like documented hard liquor? Like whiskey, vodka, shit like that. That's the, that's the stuff that kills you. If you die from beer, boy, you're fucking, you're going hard. Like Shane Gillis will sit here on a podcast and drink sixteen Bud Lights.

• 35:09Joe Rogan?

  First alcohol drinks were fermented, things like beer, wine, mead, okay? Thousands of years before true liquor, okay? First recognizable liquor appears when people begin to distill. Archaeological evidence shows fermented drinks, okay, that's around 7,000 BCE. So clear evidence of true alcohol distillation, Chinese rice beer distillates by about 800 BCE.

• 35:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:37Joe Rogan?

  So a couple thousand years.

• 35:38Speaker 02

  Couple thousand years, yeah.

• 35:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 35:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, okay. Wine into strong spirits, the Arab alchemists. Alcool, oh, interesting, using the term alcool, the root of alcohol.

• 35:52Speaker 02

  Well, they used, they used alcohol as base for, for alchemy too. That was a base for trying to transmute metal, yeah.

• 36:00Joe Rogan?

  I wonder if they were ever successful.

• 36:02Speaker 02

  They were never successful.

• 36:03Joe Rogan?

  Nothing?

• 36:03Speaker 02

  No.

• 36:04Joe Rogan?

  It seems like a crazy thing to waste so much time on trying to turn lead into gold.

• 36:08Speaker 02

  I mean, there, there was whole kingdoms spent trying to figure out how to do this.

• 36:13Joe Rogan?

  Wild.

• 36:13Speaker 02

  And it's just like, and they never, I mean, you think about it, it makes sense, right? If you're the first one, if you're the one who knows, like you can just create as much wealth for yourself as you want.

• 36:24Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 36:25Speaker 02

  And.

• 36:25Joe Rogan?

  It's just amazing that they kept trying. Must have been someone saying that they got it. I got it dude, just give me some money.

• 36:31Speaker 02

  Oh, there's tons of frauds.

• 36:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 36:32Speaker 02

  There was tons of frauds who were alchemists, who, you know, they were that centuries' version of a snake oil salesman, you know? Yeah, of course, we can, we can turn, and there was ones even in the 90s who were like, we can now turn, you know, base metals into gold.

• 36:46Joe Rogan?

  I think there's something now where they can make some gold. But I think it takes an incredible amount of energy.

• 36:58Speaker 02

  And Costs more to make than it's worth?

• 36:59Joe Rogan?

  Right, I think it's one of them deals. Is that a fact? I feel like I've read something like that fairly recently. But it's, here's a weird one. Why gold? Like, why does anybody give a fuck about this metal that you can't even use?

• 37:14Speaker 02

  There's not much of it.

• 37:15Joe Rogan?

  Right, that's true.

• 37:16Speaker 02

  There's where they're saying there's 90% of all the gold ever discovered still in circulation.

• 37:21Joe Rogan?

  Right, yeah. Well, China just found a huge vein of gold, an enormous amount. But I mean, when you say enormous, it's like relative.

• 37:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:31Joe Rogan?

  Because I think the entire world's supply of gold will fit inside of a football field.

• 37:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's not much of it.

• 37:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 37:37Speaker 02

  It's very, I mean, and very little of it is worth a lot. I mean, even if you think a pirate's treasure chest, you know, it's not actually that much gold.

• 37:44Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 37:45Speaker 02

  So, it's, yeah, it's

• 37:46Joe Rogan?

  It's a box of gold.

• 37:48Speaker 02

  It's extremely valuable. And also, you can do things with it you can't do with other metals. The same thing with silver, you know, silver.

• 37:55Joe Rogan?

  Scientists mimicking the Big Bang accidentally turned lead into gold. Yeah, so this is the thing. But I mean, again, I think mimicking the Big Bang, like, what are they using? A particle collider? Like, what are they doing?

• 38:08Joe Rogan?

  Okay, how'd they do it? How to steal a proton. Protons found the nucleus of an atom, so extremely small amounts, in fact, a total of some 29 trillionths of a gram they made. Okay, smashing lead atoms into each other, so it is a particle collider, I guess? Uh, the, uh, working on the Alice experiment and the Large Hadron Collider, yeah, there it is. And Switzerland incidentally produced small amounts of gold.

• 38:35Joe Rogan?

  Need a particle collider.

• 38:36Speaker 02

  That's all. No big deal. No big deal. He just built it into a whole mountain. And now they're building a second one, they said.

• 38:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 38:43Speaker 02

  Building into a new mountain.

• 38:44Joe Rogan?

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• 39:28Joe Rogan?

  Exclusions may apply. See app for details. This episode is brought to you by the Apple Sports app. Guys, this is the ultimate best time of the year to be a sports fan. Football, baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer. The calendar is stacked, but it can also be hard to keep track of it all. And that is where the Apple Sports app comes into play. It is the fastest and easiest way to stay on top of all the action. With scores and play-by-play automatically showing up on your iPhone when the teams you follow are playing, that means you don't have to figure out when the games are on and how your team is doing, which is especially nice when you're following a

• 40:10Joe Rogan?

  bunch of teams and your friends are constantly blowing up the group chat. The Apple Sports app gives you all the important game details for your favorite sports teams, fast and simple. Download Apple Sports for free on the App Store or find it on your new iPhone. Well, there was one they were putting during the Clinton administration. They were building a particle collider somewhere in the middle of America. Trying to figure out where it was.

• 40:39Speaker 02

  I'm certain there's already more than one.

• 40:41Joe Rogan?

  Oh, there's many particle colliders.

• 40:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I'm certain there's ones that are. That are even probably larger and hidden than the one that's currently there.

• 40:48Joe Rogan?

  Really? You think so?

• 40:48Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, for sure.

• 40:49Joe Rogan?

  What do you think they're doing with them?

• 40:51Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, the military applications for that are, like, they're enormous. The idea that you could make like some kind of particle weapon, you know, or something like this.

• 41:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh, right, right, right.

• 41:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's no way that the, that the US military is gonna let scientists have a gadget like that somewhere that they don't have complete control over. There's no way.

• 41:13Joe Rogan?

  I wonder, because I, I don't know what kind of military applications you would have for particle colliders. I mean, for sure.

• 41:23Speaker 02

  Big explosions, right?

• 41:24Joe Rogan?

  There's probab-, yeah, but you're just, you've got a giant loop and you're slinging.

• 41:29Speaker 02

  Smashing things together, right?

• 41:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 41:31Speaker 02

  So what, I mean, what are you doing?

• 41:33Joe Rogan?

  Like a hair under the speed of light.

• 41:34Speaker 02

  You can make them go boomy boom, right?

• 41:36Joe Rogan?

  Kind of. Well, the real concern with the Large Hadron Collider is that we're gonna create many black holes that are gonna eat their way through the earth, that you wouldn't be able to stop them. They would just like slide through the earth.

• 41:46Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:46Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 41:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, I heard that. I heard there was concern they're gonna open up a portal to a different dimension. I've heard, like, I've.

• 41:53Joe Rogan?

  Maybe they did.

• 41:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've heard all sorts of, yeah, we changed our timeline. We're on the new timeline, you know, the, the, the whole nine yards. I've, I've heard it all. I'm just saying that anything, it's just been my experience, when I look through the historic record, that if there's any scientific gadget out there that looks like it has the potential to make something go boom, the United States military has a version of it somewhere.

• 42:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. But for whatever reason, they abandoned this one during the Clinton administration. I, I don't remember why they abandoned it, but you could, people can, if they have access to the area where it's at, can still go inside of it and see like what they started to build, but they never did. But it would have been larger than the Large Hadron Collider. I wanna say it's in Georgia. I don't remember though, but it's a, it was gonna be an enormous particle collider.

• 42:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:45Joe Rogan?

  And for some reason, they just stopped funding to this thing. But.

• 42:50Speaker 02

  Well, they're talking about funding another, another one that's twice the size of the one that they have now. They say that they need more room to smash more particles together.

• 42:59Joe Rogan?

  What are they trying to do?

• 43:00Speaker 02

  I have no idea. Like, that is way outside of, of my domain. Um, I can tell you, I, probably the same things you've heard, right? Is, uh, they're trying to smash small particles together to see what happens. That's what the, kind of the official story is. But it's funny because every time a new story comes out, it's like, scientists smash this together with this and this happens. And I'm always like, okay, well, what does that mean? And you never get any of that, right?

• 43:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 43:25Speaker 04

  This one was in Texas.

• 43:27Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it was in Texas? Yeah, the Clinton. Okay, that's it. Yeah.

• 43:30Speaker 04

  Spent $2 billion on it and abandoned it.

• 43:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I wonder, see if you can find some images of it.

• 43:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's outside of Dallas.

• 43:37Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it is outside of Dallas. Okay. Abandoned superconducting supercollider site in 2008. Wow. I wonder if you could buy it. That'd be fucking awesome.

• 43:47Speaker 02

  Get, Brogan's own particle collider.

• 43:50Joe Rogan?

  I mean, there's nothing there. It's just concrete. Let me buy it. What's the big deal?

• 43:55Speaker 02

  Like that weird time machine out in the desert? That was really funny.

• 43:58Joe Rogan?

  Let me set up an archery range inside of it.

• 43:59Speaker 04

  Confirm this stuff last week.

• 44:00Joe Rogan?

  Department of War confirms plans to scale direct energy weapons. Did you see that thing that China made?

• 44:05Speaker 02

  Why would they need a hydro collider though, right? Or, uh, you know, a particle collider? Well, because they want to make stuff go boom.

• 44:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, direct energy weapons. Yes, Department of War has direct energy weapons. Yes, we're scaling them. Wow.

• 44:19Speaker 04

  It's pretty serious. I went wild over this.

• 44:20Joe Rogan?

  Oh, of course. Well, that was a lot of people, the really kooky ones.

• 44:24Speaker 02

  Fallout rifle though. I do. I want my plasma rifle.

• 44:26Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 44:27Speaker 02

  I do. Like, if they have plasma rifles, you're gonna buy one, right?

• 44:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 44:30Speaker 02

  Oh, for sure.

• 44:31Joe Rogan?

  You'd probably get a tax stamp. You'd probably be like a lengthy thing to get through. Um, I'm glad you're a gun guy because I want, I wanted to bring up this whole thing with this guy, uh, Preddy.

• 44:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:42Joe Rogan?

  And I, I haven't talked about it. We haven't done a podcast since, uh, that guy got killed. Um, but that whole thing.

• 44:50Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of people that don't understand what's going on. And why riots only in Minneapolis? And why riots in the place where there's an ungodly amount of fraud that has been discovered?

• 45:04Speaker 02

  Coincidentally, right around the same time.

• 45:07Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. Like, instantaneously afterwards, the narrative completely changes. Everybody forgets about the fraud. Now, all anybody cares about is ICE and fascists and Nazis.

• 45:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:17Joe Rogan?

  And it's, uh, there's a, you know what a color revolution is?

• 45:21Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 45:22Joe Rogan?

  And for people that don't, it's, it's a coordinated effort to cause chaos. And this is a very coordinated thing. The idea that this is an organic protest, that these riots are organic, is nonsense. It's provably nonsense, because now they have access to the Signal chats. So they know that these, so, these people-

• 45:44Speaker 02

  Cam Higbee, by the way.

• 45:45Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 45:46Speaker 02

  He's been on the front lines of this. The Crucible has been a big supporter of that effort, my channel. I will often snipe his coverage while it's going on, send my audience over to send in Super Chats in order to keep this guy going. I think that that work is critical.

• 46:03Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 46:04Speaker 02

  It's critical work, and there's not that many people doing it anymore because of how dangerous it has become.

• 46:09Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 46:10Speaker 02

  And so, I'm a big supporter of that. Doesn't mean I agree with everything he says politically, but what he's doing on the ground there needs to happen.

• 46:17Joe Rogan?

  Right. We need, you need to understand that this isn't organic, regardless of how you feel. I don't feel that that guy should have been shot, but I understand what happened. And what happened was chaos. So, what hap, first of all, it wasn't ICE, people need to understand that. It was, uh, Customs and Border Patrol people. So they were brought in to assist ICE. And they're telling this lady to stand away, and then this cop gets very aggressive and shoves her.

• 46:48Joe Rogan?

  You have to understand the situation that they're in, right? And this is not making an excuse for any of it. But you have to just, just to put it into context. These people are getting harassed outside of any hotel they're at. People blow horns, they try to smash into the hotel.

• 47:03Speaker 02

  They dox them.

• 47:03Joe Rogan?

  They dox them. It's why they're wearing masks. It's a coordinated effort. I'm not saying that guy should have shoved that guy. I don't think he should have. Or that woman. I don't think he should have. And then pepper sprayed. And then the guy who got shot, Preddy, he steps in, which is, if you know anything about concealed carry, if you are a concealed carry holder and you are carrying not just a pistol, but two full magazines as well, you do not ever physically engage with someone. You also are supposed to carry your license on you and you're supposed to, you're supposed to have ID on you. All right? You, you.

• 47:41Speaker 02

  And you're trained specifically for this, by the way. I was a CPL instructor for years.

• 47:45Joe Rogan?

  Okay. So you know about it all?

• 47:46Speaker 02

  The thing is, there's a framework here, if you don't mind if I add your framework. The framework here is this is a mathematical formula. So I've been following these extremely closely live and looking at, at how this is done. Let's go backwards in time. You remember what was going on in California? Nobody died in California. There was an ice raid on a Home Depot and they went nuts. And they started smashing police cars, they were starting fires, right? This was not over somebody dying. And now the narrative, they're trying to make the narrative shift. The Gestapo's in here, you know, murdering American citizens. Well, and what, what was going on in California then? Because there was no American citizens getting murdered there.

• 48:28Speaker 02

  What was going on there was they did an ice raid in a Home Depot, which anybody who's been to California knows that, you know, there's, it used to be that you'd drive down the street and they would all hang out in front of the Home Depot and you'd say two.

• 48:40Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 48:41Speaker 02

  And they'd hop in the truck and you would, you know, they would go. Yeah, they were day laborers, right? So it didn't surprise me that they were there doing daily raids. Okay, that doesn't surprise me a bit. And they, they all went ballistic. Now, here's what was very curious about the coverage of that. And I had a debate with a couple of leftists on this.

• 48:59Speaker 02

  What I saw was what looked to me to be a police stand down order. There was people who were breaking into, I don't remember if it was an Amco or a 7-Eleven, but they were busting into it and the cops were on the side corner watching this go down, didn't do anything. They didn't do anything about it.

• 49:13Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 49:14Speaker 02

  Okay, if it got too rowdy, they'd clear it out and then they let them continue. It looked like a stand down order, like you don't involve yourself. Well, what I think these guys have figured out is a mathematical formula and it works like this. If the local police are not going to protect the federal buildings, then it's left to the federal police to do this, right? In this case, ICE is going to protect its own buildings, the FBI is going to protect its own buildings. If the local police aren't going to protect it and it's surrounded, then who does the protection then? And this is why Trump, he unleashes the National Guard, but where? To those federal buildings. To protect those federal buildings. That was the whole point of it. And basically, anytime he's unleashed

• 49:54Speaker 02

  the National Guard that I've seen, it's to federal buildings to protect them. And so, the mathematical formula works like this. The longer it is that protesters are engaging with federal officers whose job is not to do basic street cleanup of thugs, that's the local PD's job, the chances that there's an incident, which is going to be a bad incident, is going to occur. So basically, the longer you're there, the more attrition there is, the more engagements you have with these federal officers over time, eventually

• 50:26Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 50:27Speaker 02

  there's going to be something which is out of pocket that happens, or something which is escalatory that happens, and they're banking on that. And that's why ICE is out in front of these, or not ICE, the Antifa people are still out in front of the ICE buildings in front of many states, night after night after night. And it's designed specifically to make sure, it's just a math formula, right? The longer we're here and the less the local PD involves itself, the more chance of incident between federal officers and us.

• 50:54Joe Rogan?

  You're knocking steel against Flint.

• 50:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 50:56Speaker 02

  Waiting for the fire.

• 50:57Joe Rogan?

  You're waiting for sparks. And in this particular instance...

• 51:03Joe Rogan?

  This guy, uh, clearly had been very involved. Uh, I don't know if he was a part of the Signal chats, but when you go to what's supposed to be a peaceful protest, and you're fully armed like that, with two magazines, it's kinda crazy, right? Like, what do you, why do you need so many bullets?

• 51:21Speaker 02

  Now the libs are all so pro Second Amendment, too.

• 51:23Joe Rogan?

  That is wild. That's absolutely wild, which I'm for.

• 51:27Speaker 02

  He had every right. I, uh, tell, uh, he didn't last month, but, uh, okay.

• 51:31Joe Rogan?

  I like it. I like where it's going. I like that, cause that's kind of a trap.

• 51:37Joe Rogan?

  Did you see what MSNBC did to his image?

• 51:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. They were, they, where they gusied it up?

• 51:41Joe Rogan?

  Basically did the opposite of what CNN did to me. You know, CNN during the COVID times turned me green, and, uh, they made me ugly and looked like I was dying, and they made him handsome.

• 51:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:51Joe Rogan?

  So people would be more sympathetic to him getting shot, which is kind of wild. Like, are ugly people less valuable to MSNBC?

• 51:59Speaker 02

  Less marketable?

• 52:00Joe Rogan?

  That is crazy to me. Like, look at the difference.

• 52:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:04Joe Rogan?

  Look at the difference. They shortened up his face, they gave him a little bit of a tan, they widened his face a little bit, it seems like. They just made him a little handsomer.

• 52:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:14Joe Rogan?

  A little hotter.

• 52:15Speaker 02

  They gave him, gave him a bit of that Chad jaw, didn't they?

• 52:17Joe Rogan?

  They shrunk his nose a little too, didn't they?

• 52:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, they did.

• 52:20Joe Rogan?

  They shrunk his nose, gave him a little bit of a handsome jaw, so he looks like an American-

• 52:25Speaker 02

  If you look at the shoulders, it even looks like they, uh, they may have plumped up the shoulders there a bit.

• 52:29Joe Rogan?

  Little bit, yeah. The one on the right looks like, looks like he's a little plumper.

• 52:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Yeah, they, they changed the tone of the color. Wild. I mean, they, look at they, they changed his fucking teeth, man.

• 52:42Speaker 02

  Communist news network.

• 52:43Joe Rogan?

  They gave him veneers.

• 52:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:45Joe Rogan?

  Look, look at the difference in his teeth. He's a much more handsome guy. Like, that one on the right is like the handsome brother, and the one on the left is like, fuck!

• 52:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:54Joe Rogan?

  Why couldn't I look like my goddamn brother?

• 52:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, the one on the right, he, they were twins, and he took more of the protein.

• 52:59Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 53:00Speaker 02

  Right? That was what, that was what happened. The thing is, is like, this doesn't surprise me, by the way. Uh, this is, um- What's going on, and this is a well orchestrated, well crafted thing.

• 53:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 53:12Speaker 02

  And the Signal chats proved that, but we knew it anyway.

• 53:15Joe Rogan?

  Yes, involving government, by the way. Allegedly, at least, involving Minnesota State Government.

• 53:20Speaker 02

  Well, it involves waltz.

• 53:22Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 53:22Speaker 02

  So that's not alleged.

• 53:23Joe Rogan?

  Right, that's not alleged.

• 53:24Speaker 02

  It's not alleged that it involves waltz, it's not alleged that it involves fray.

• 53:28Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 53:28Speaker 02

  And it's not alleged, well, what is alleged is the allegations of fraud, of course, but...

• 53:33Joe Rogan?

  But there would be a reason why you would want to distract from all that fraud.

• 53:37Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 53:37Joe Rogan?

  And that would motivate you to do something along these lines. So let's go back to the instance. So you've got these cops that are on, these CBP guys that are on high alert, right? There's a lot of tension, people are screaming. If you're in an environment like that all day, like, I've never been a police officer, but I was a security guard. And when I was, I was a security guard for Great Woods, and by the way, I'm not comparing this in any way, but I'm just explaining my mentality when I was there. It was very much us versus them. It was a small group of guys that were working at, I worked at Great Woods Center for the Performing Arts in Mansfield, Massachusetts.

• 54:20Joe Rogan?

  It's a concert venue in Mansfield. And this was when I was fighting. So it was me and a bunch of guys from my taekwondo team got hired to be security guards. One of the guys came and said, "Hey, you guys want to get a job working as a security guard? It's great, you get to see concerts." And it was like a good pay. And, you know, I was doing a bunch of random jobs back then while I was competing, just to sort of pay bills. And I said, "Yeah, okay, what do I have to do?" And they're like, "It's nothing, you just go there and you work." First day on the job, I go there, some guy had stolen one of the security golf carts. So there's this dude named Alley Cat, he was the head guy of security, he was fucking character, hilarious. His main dream was to open up a bar.

• 55:04Joe Rogan?

  Alley Cat's libations and victuals, he had this whole dream of, like, just a real character. But this guy was a hardcore motherfucker. And they caught the guy who stole this golf cart, tacked him to the ground, and he was beating him in the face with a walkie-talkie. This is my first day on the job, so I'm like... Okay, so this is what we're doing. And we kind of became like, almost like cops for this place. But there was very much an us versus them mentality. And it turns out it was a lot more involved than I ever thought it was. And then one day, I was at a Neil Young concert. I was working the Neil Young concert and riots broke out. There was fire, it was cold out. And there was like a grassy area.

• 55:49Joe Rogan?

  So there was like a lawn, it was like there's the inside, not inside, it was like an outdoor concert venue. But there was a roof to part of it. And then the back of it was like this lawn area that was in the back. And these guys had started bonfires up there. And we were supposed to go in there and break up the bonfires. And then my friend Larry, who was like one of the most mild mannered guys you'd ever want to meet, but, you know, elite black belt. He gets in a fight with this guy and some guy pushes him and he knocks this guy down. And I'm like, okay, chaos has broken out, let's get the fu- I'm like, let's quit, let's get the fuck out of here. And I used to wear a hoodie. I used to carry a hoodie so I could just zip up the hoodie over my security outfit and like, bye.

• 56:30Joe Rogan?

  Cause I knew there was gonna come a time where I was like, not getting shot, stabbed, killed, whatever, stomped to death. For 20 bucks an hour, whatever the fuck I was getting. So I wound up leaving that day, but you, there was a very, and I remember very clearly like, oh, this is probably what happens with cops times a million. Like you develop this us versus them, because it was very much us. We would meet up at the beginning of our shift. We would all talk about what's going down. Mostly we were catching people that were bringing in alcohol, like women in their purses, you know, like some, Carly Simon or something be playing, they'd sneak in a bottle of wine, you know. And James Taylor, you know, there was a lot of that.

• 57:09Joe Rogan?

  And so we'd have like literal fucking trash cans filled with bottles of wine and liquor at the end of the night. We would get to keep them, we'd take them home. And so this us versus them.

• 57:21Speaker 02

  That's a nice perk.

• 57:22Joe Rogan?

  It was kind of fun.

• 57:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's a nice perk.

• 57:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 57:24Speaker 02

  He's like.

• 57:25Joe Rogan?

  Also, it was illegal to drink. I was only nineteen at the time, but.

• 57:28Speaker 02

  An even nicer perk?

• 57:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It was very clearly us versus them and the tensions were very high.

• 57:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:36Joe Rogan?

  Like whenever some weird shit went down, everybody puffed up their chest and everybody was ready to throw down. And I was like, this job is not good, but it it educated me. I was like, okay, and I'm in my mind, I was like, okay, this must be like this. When you're a police officer, again, times a million. Uh, that is to think of what's going on.

• 57:55Speaker 02

  Why they have their codes, right? They have the, they have their oaths they take and then they have their little codes to each other, too.

• 58:01Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 58:01Speaker 02

  But I wouldn't, I don't blame them.

• 58:03Joe Rogan?

  I don't blame them either.

• 58:04Speaker 02

  It seems completely, there's a a certain wisdom to this. Like, hey, look, that could be me.

• 58:10Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent.

• 58:10Speaker 02

  And so if it's you, I I'm gonna be right there with you.

• 58:13Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent.

• 58:13Speaker 02

  And then if it's me, you're gonna be right there with me. I get it.

• 58:17Joe Rogan?

  Also, there is a tremendous amount of social media content that anybody could access at any given time where a lot of these dorks are calling for violence. You know, it's just, it's all over the place. You could find it, the least likely people that would ever be involved in any sort of an altercation are on TikTok calling for violence. We gotta kill these motherfuckers. We gotta shoot these motherfuckers. And these guys are out there in the middle of that. Alright, so tensions are high as fuck and they're getting screamed at all the time. They're on red alert. They're wearing vests. They're carrying guns.

• 58:51Speaker 02

  Their wives are getting called and threatened and uh, they're saying they're gonna rape their kids.

• 58:54Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 58:55Speaker 02

  Saying that they're gonna brutalize their family members and they give them calls in the middle of the night and they whisper to them, well, how's your dad such and such doing? You know, and just cryptic things like that and let it go.

• 59:04Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh, exactly. And this is very coordinated. It's very coordinated and organized and the way they find out all their information. It's very creepy. So, again, I don't think this guy should have pushed that lady. I mean, the way he did it was very violent. She was a small woman and he shoved her very violently to the ground. Then this other guy, Preddy, gets in between them. Okay, which, again, if you're a concealed carry holder is a giant no-no. You do not fucking do that. You do not engage with law enforcement when you're armed. You shouldn't engage with anyone.

• 59:36Speaker 02

  Ever.

• 59:37Joe Rogan?

  Ever. I mean-

• 59:38Speaker 02

  You should be avoiding, you should be trained to avoid conflict.

• 59:42Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 59:42Speaker 02

  That's the whole thing. It's like, uh, if you're, if you're armed, you move into that next level of, you need to really be avoiding conflict. You're not supposed to be in bars drinking.

• 59:51Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 59:51Speaker 02

  You're not supposed to be, uh, you know, at big parties and things like this where violent things can occur.

• 59:56Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 59:56Speaker 02

  You know, you can take it to church, defend the church. Other than that-

• 1:00:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:00Speaker 02

  Like, you're supposed to be avoiding conflict.

• 1:00:02Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. So, uh, he gets in between the officer and this woman, puts his hands on the officer, and then he gets pepper sprayed. They go to the ground. There's a lot of scrambling going on. Now, you have to understand what happens when you get pepper sprayed, okay? Uh, I've never been pepper sprayed, but I did get tear gassed once during Fear Factor. We did a Fear Factor stunt where these people had to, I forget what they had to do, but we, we had built this, there was like a structure, and they were inside the structure, and they released tear gas in this charge. I got hit with it. It's pretty brutal, but-

• 1:00:38Speaker 02

  It's painful.

• 1:00:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it sucks.

• 1:00:40Speaker 02

  And you can't breathe.

• 1:00:41Joe Rogan?

  You can't breathe, your eyes swell up, you, you nose starts running like crazy, yeah.

• 1:00:46Speaker 02

  And that shit stays on your clothes, too.

• 1:00:47Joe Rogan?

  You don't think well when that happens. So, this, this guy's clearly not thinking well, and he can't see, and he's, you know, and then they're on him, right? So, they're on him, and then one guy, whether he yells out he's got a gun, or grabs the gun first, I, I'm not sure. But there, he has a gun. So, they see his gun in the middle of the scramble. The guy pulls his gun out and moves off. Now, this is where it gets, this is where it gets weird. I believe the gun was a SIG P320. A SIG P320 is known for having accidental discharges. It is, uh, it has a reputation for it.

• 1:01:31Joe Rogan?

  It has a very specific type of striker. It doesn't have a safety the way some other guns do. And you can have negligent discharges with SIGs.

• 1:01:42Speaker 02

  Now, is the, the P320, is that a hammered model?

• 1:01:45Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:01:45Speaker 02

  Okay, so it's not a striker fire?

• 1:01:47Joe Rogan?

  No, wait a minute, no, no, it is a striker fire. It's, let's, let's, let's pull, let's pull it up, because I'm not, I know that 365 is built very differently. The, the 320 breaks cleaner, but-

• 1:01:59Speaker 02

  I thought the 320 had a hammer, was double action and single action, and then, I, I-

• 1:02:04Joe Rogan?

  You might be right.

• 1:02:05Speaker 02

  I didn't think it was a striker fire. Most of the P models are not striker fires that I'm aware of. I could be wrong.

• 1:02:11Joe Rogan?

  Well, the 365, the P365 is definitely different than the 320.

• 1:02:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:15Joe Rogan?

  They have a different striking mechanisms. They're known for accidental discharges.

• 1:02:18Speaker 02

  Okay. Um, I can't tell if that's a hammer underneath the slide?

• 1:02:23Joe Rogan?

  Well, let's, um, just, just, what is this, what is the trigger mechanism of a SIG P320? Put that in there. And what is it that makes it prone to accidental discharges? If you look up SIG P320 online in any search engine, accidental discharge comes up very quickly.

• 1:02:42Speaker 02

  Oh, it is striker fired?

• 1:02:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:44Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:02:44Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:02:44Speaker 02

  So it's a modular striker fired trigger mechanism. Uh, when pressed, trigger bar moves forward, disengages the safety, lever in, see, you're releasing the striker. Okay, so it's a striker fired pistol, so, okay, got it.

• 1:02:54Joe Rogan?

  So, as of, uh, 2017, SIG changed the way they make their guns. Because the trigger itself was heavier than what it is now. And not just the pull, but the actual mechanism of the trigger was heavier. If you drop it, so if, uh, this is the barrel of the gun where the bullet comes out, and this is where you're holding on your hand-

• 1:03:16Speaker 02

  It disconnects?

• 1:03:17Joe Rogan?

  If you drop it, it'll, it'll discharge. And it'll discharge without, without moving the slide, which is kind of crazy. Because what happens is something in the dropping it on the back- Where the handle is.

• 1:03:29Speaker 02

  Releases the disc connector, probably.

• 1:03:31Joe Rogan?

  It causes that heavier trigger, the heavier weight to the trigger, to drop down and it will discharge.

• 1:03:36Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:03:37Joe Rogan?

  Uh, as of 2017, they made the trigger lighter and it doesn't do that anymore.

• 1:03:41Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:03:42Joe Rogan?

  And there's a whole YouTube video where this guy explains it and shows that you can do it with the older models. If you drop them, if you drop them on their side, they don't do it. If you drop them barrel first, they don't do it. But if you drop them handle first and it hits the, the back where you hold it, where the, you know, the, the, the, what is it called? The beaver tail?

• 1:04:01Speaker 02

  Then the, the internal hammer drops and bang.

• 1:04:04Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. And it's one of the only guns that does that.

• 1:04:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:06Joe Rogan?

  And so much so that I believe, you should search this, I believe the Dallas Police Department stopped, uh, issuing them to their officers. See if that's true. Before I go further, because I don't, I don't wanna get into any legal weeds here. But I have one. I have a 320. I've never had a problem with it. Uh, I, here it is, Dallas Police suspends use of pistol manufacturer. Okay, yeah. And it's because of that. So, um.

• 1:04:35Speaker 02

  What are these chambered in? 940?

• 1:04:37Joe Rogan?

  It's nine.

• 1:04:38Speaker 02

  Nine?

• 1:04:38Joe Rogan?

  They're nines, but the, um, so that's the gun this guy has.

• 1:04:43Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:04:43Joe Rogan?

  So, when this CBP officer grabs his gun, he was moving off and it appears, it's very grainy, the video. It appears there's an accidental discharge. Now, you can make an accidental discharge of this gun without touching the trigger. If there's any kind of pressure on the trigger, if it is a modified trigger, if there's anything that engages with it, even a slight amount, and you move the slide at all, that gun will go off. And there's videos of it online. You could find videos online. See if you can find videos of it online where a guy shows

• 1:05:23Joe Rogan?

  how you can get that gun to negligent discharge, cause it will. It will. At least the pre-2017 model.

• 1:05:32Speaker 02

  I didn't see his hand go on the slide of the gun, though.

• 1:05:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, he's holding it, you know, it's, the hard thing is, it's fucking blurry shit.

• 1:05:41Speaker 02

  I looked at it from both angles, but it looked to me like he was holding it.

• 1:05:47Joe Rogan?

  Like by the handle, with no finger on the trigger.

• 1:05:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:50Joe Rogan?

  But it does seem, like, at least in some of the takes that I've seen, I may be wrong, but it seems like that gun might have negligent discharged. Now.

• 1:06:01Speaker 02

  Usually when someone's holding a gun and there's a negligent discharge, it's because they, they pulled the trigger, right?

• 1:06:06Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 1:06:07Speaker 02

  So in this case, let's, I mean, I'm gonna assume it for a second. So the gun drops on the side, striker fired, let's say it's, I don't know what the mechanism is, well, let's say the disconnector, that makes the disconnector go, the hammer drops, bam, hits the primer, gunfire's.

• 1:06:20Joe Rogan?

  Gunfires, hits the ground, these guys think, they hear gun, these guys think this guy might have a gun in the scramble, they don't know, this is all seconds.

• 1:06:30Speaker 02

  So they open fire.

• 1:06:30Joe Rogan?

  High pressure, they open fire on him. That's what I believe happened. You know, so when people say, oh, they straight up executed this guy.

• 1:06:40Speaker 02

  Think you better, there's a little more nuance there.

• 1:06:42Joe Rogan?

  There's more nuance to it, there's chaos, there's the fog of chaos, you're in the middle of this, like, very high-stress situation, where you've already pepper sprayed this guy, now you're in a physical scramble, someone says he has a gun, gun goes off, bang, bang, you're just shooting. I'm assuming. This is just a lot of, you know, a lot of guesswork.

• 1:07:03Speaker 02

  That's a lot of bad stuff that has to happen in sequence.

• 1:07:06Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:07:06Speaker 02

  Like, the fact, even if this gun is recalled as a model, uh, that had these issues, right, I'm guessing that it wasn't every, every one of them that had the issues, some of them, right, probably not all. And if it's, because it has to have a lot of force for it to go off, or the slide has to be, you know, you have to be moving the slide or something like this, what I saw was him holding the pistol, how you or I would hold the pistol with the finger off the trigger. I did not actually see, like, what would have caused that force.

• 1:07:37Joe Rogan?

  This is where it gets weird. So, there have been documents.

• 1:07:42Joe Rogan?

  Mentored instance like the pig, the, the SIG P three twenty. There's a lot of legal stuff involved in this. There's, there's tons of cases. Some of them are bullshit. Like there was one cop where they said the cop got shot. Because the gun accidentally went off and everybody's like, oh man, Sig's in trouble. Turns out that cop had a recant that. And he accidentally hit the trigger and shot a cop. But he, he wanted, so this is one. So this guy, his gun just goes off. Now he doesn't have his finger on the trigger. It just goes off. Now there's another one where a cop is in the middle of a precinct and he leans forward. He's got the holster on the outside. He leans forward and the gun goes off.

• 1:08:24Joe Rogan?

  He does not have his hand on the trigger. He's not touching the gun at all. See if you can find the one where the cop does it. So there's a cop where he's in the precinct. His gun is, now here's the question. Was there something touching the trigger? Was it the holster bad? Was there, was there debris in it? Was there something? Was there, was his shirt touching it? Did he, did he jam the gun in the holster and maybe like his shirt got stuck in it, touched the trigger?

• 1:08:50Speaker 02

  There's also the second gun theory.

• 1:08:52Joe Rogan?

  And then he moves forward. If the guy had a second gun.

• 1:08:55Speaker 02

  There's also the second gun theory. So I, I understand what you're saying and maybe it met all of the conditions for that. It does seem unlikely to me, but it's possible um that he's just holding it and it just happens to go off.

• 1:09:09Joe Rogan?

  It would seem unlikely with any other gun. So if the guy had a Glock.

• 1:09:12Speaker 02

  But both of these cases are from the holster. This guy's grabbing from the holster. He's grabbing from the holster. Well, the cop had already pulled it out of the holster. And now he's holding it and then it goes off.

• 1:09:21Joe Rogan?

  Right, but it's, it's so low resolution. It's hard to see what's going on with his hands. So if there had been some funkiness with the trigger. You know, who knows where he got the gun? Who knows whether or not that gun had an aftermarket trigger? Who knows what's going on? But as he's doing this, you're in the middle of the chaos. You're ramped up with adrenaline. Who knows if that guy accidentally while he was holding it, put pressure on the slide? And caused that gun to negligent discharge. I don't know. This is the speculation and the reason why the speculation is so. It's, it's, it's, this is something worth talking about is because it's a Sig P320.

• 1:10:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:02Joe Rogan?

  And there's so many stories about that.

• 1:10:03Speaker 02

  It's not outside the realm of possibility, in other words.

• 1:10:05Joe Rogan?

  Right, which is the worst case scenario, right? You got all this chaos and then you got that fucking gun and that gun goes off.

• 1:10:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, but let me ask you this. Let's say we, we adjust for this. There's an investigation. Turns out that this 320 model was one of the ones that, you know, was issued.

• 1:10:23Joe Rogan?

  An older model, right.

• 1:10:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, or something like this, or it was issued after the fact. And it's brand, it's newer. Let's just say it's, it's newer and they've gotten this design flaw out of there. Let's just, just assume for a second.

• 1:10:34Speaker 02

  All those things being equal now, right? When the left is points at that and says, that's an execution. What, what's your opinion then? If it, if it's the case, there is no, there is no negligent discharge. There is none of that. What, like, how would you view it then?

• 1:10:51Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's a extremely unfortunate case of what happens during chaos.

• 1:10:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, I agree.

• 1:10:58Joe Rogan?

  I don't think it's an execution. I don't think they pulled the gun from him and then just shot him.

• 1:11:02Speaker 02

  But that's rhetoric being used, right?

• 1:11:04Joe Rogan?

  It is. But, you know, which you, you're automatically going to have if you have a guy get shot.

• 1:11:13Joe Rogan?

  Can we, can we watch a video? Let's watch a video and see if we can discern when the shot fires off. Cause it, does it before or after they say he's got a gun? Cause someone says he has a gun. One of the officers removes the gun and then a shot goes off.

• 1:11:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:30Joe Rogan?

  Now, there's another speculation that the guy who shot him had a negligent discharge. He didn't, like, maybe he had his hand on the trigger and he got a little amped up and it went off. And then he just fucking fired into him.

• 1:11:42Speaker 02

  Kept going.

• 1:11:43Joe Rogan?

  That's possible too. I, not exactly sure. It's, there's a ton of angles, ton of different cellphone angles. None of them are really crystal clear.

• 1:11:52Speaker 02

  And the thing that's interesting about this is I'm even willing to kind of grant it to the left. Just on appearance alone for a second, just for the sake of, of like logically taking this to its conclusion. Let's say that the cops were totally wrong on this. They, they messed the whole thing up. They screwed it up. They, it was a negligent discharge from the officer himself. It killed this guy. It was totally unjustified. Okay, but now what? Right, is it, is it the case that we're gonna what, stop deporting illegal immigrants? We're gonna stop, you know, that ICE is gonna stop, Border Patrol's gonna stop doing his job? ICE is gonna stop doing his job because of a single incident? Even if all of the officers involved were incorrect? Of course not, that's ridiculous, right?

• 1:12:37Speaker 02

  The thing about this incident is it's being used as a catalyst to now say they're the Gestapo, just like they were trying to do with Renee. They're the Gestapo, they're here to, you know, be the jackbooted thugs of the Trump administration. That's being used now as the new rallying cry and catalyst for the, and it's post hoc justification. That's what makes me so angry about is it's like, no, no, no. You're out here doing all of this long before anybody was getting shot by ICE, okay? You were doing this long before there was any supposed abuses by ICE. It seems like they're, what they do is they set up the reactions, right? They set up the conditions, maximize the conditions for horrible actions to happen.

• 1:13:18Speaker 02

  And then when they do, they use those as the justification for why they were ever out there in the first place. And it's like, what's going on here? That's, that's what bothers me.

• 1:13:26Joe Rogan?

  Right, this is the quintessential description of the color revolution. I mean, they're, they're trying to create chaos. And it's, again, it's very well-funded and very well-organized. It's not as simple as this is an organic protest that people are fired up because ICE is in their community. That's not really what's going on.

• 1:13:47Speaker 02

  Not at all.

• 1:13:48Joe Rogan?

  But I think there's a lot of good people that are wrapped up in that that think they're doing a good thing. And they really do think they're fighting fascism because they exist in these bubbles and they're, they're...

• 1:13:58Speaker 02

  I believe them.

• 1:13:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:00Speaker 02

  I do believe them, that they think that they're fighting against fascism. And I've, I've debated with enough of these people on what historically fascism is in comparison to what they perceive it as, that I do think that they believe that 100%.

• 1:14:15Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:14:15Speaker 02

  It's, I just think it's an unjustified belief and I think it's, it's ridiculous.

• 1:14:20Joe Rogan?

  It's not accurate.

• 1:14:21Speaker 02

  It's not accurate.

• 1:14:21Joe Rogan?

  You know, one of the things that we went over the other day is we talked about the deportations, right? And that there's... Been somewhere in the neighborhood of two million deportations. But 1.6 of them were like self deportations. 1.6 of them were like people were notified and they said, "Well, just get the fuck out of here. I don't want to be in jail."

• 1:14:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, good.

• 1:14:43Joe Rogan?

  And then a half a million of them were and then but people are saying very few of them would have been violent criminals. But we found out there was like 8%. Th- this is just 8% of what we know has been caught. That is a lot of violent criminals. If you got a half a million people and 8% of them are murderers and rapists and they snuck in door, not even snuck in because they were allowed access to the United States over the last four years. Somewhere to the tune of, let's be like super charitable. Let's say it's only 10 million. Because I think it's a lot more. And they don't-

• 1:15:16Speaker 02

  A lot more.

• 1:15:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they don't really know the number because it's really the numbers that they're giving are based on interactions. Right? But how many people snuck through and they didn't have an interaction with them? It's a lot, man. It's a lot of people and they did this shit on purpose. And they did this shit because they want more congressional seats, because the census doesn't count citizens. It doesn't count legal citizens, it just counts human beings. So the more citizens you have in an area, the more congressional seats you have. And then there's places like California that make it illegal to show your ID. You're not allowed, not only are you not suppo- which you should have to show your fucking ID when you vote.

• 1:15:54Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:15:54Joe Rogan?

  Right? So we know that you're legally voting. They made it so you can't show your ID, which is the only, the only, you could steel man this to the end of time. The only reason why you do that is because you want to cheat.

• 1:16:07Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 1:16:08Joe Rogan?

  It's the only reason.

• 1:16:08Speaker 02

  Of course. Well, it's not just that, but you make, you make a good compelling point here.

• 1:16:12Joe Rogan?

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• 1:16:55Joe Rogan?

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• 1:17:39Joe Rogan?

  Or get the premium Visible Plus Pro Plan and save $10 on your first month with promo code ROGEN. Terms apply. See visible.com for plan features and network management details.

• 1:17:53Speaker 02

  The idea, even if it was the case, let's just say, almost none of them are violent criminals. Let's just give it to them. Just kind of for the sake of argument here. We'll give it to them. So what? The people don't want them here. That's it. These are supposed to be the biggest believers in democracy and republicanism ever. That's what they're fighting against is the evil fascists. It's like, well, here the people spoke, okay?

• 1:18:16Joe Rogan?

  I'm gonna send-

• 1:18:17Speaker 02

  And the people said, "We don't want illegal immigrants here. We want them out of here." It doesn't matter what the conditionals are for violent criminality or not violent criminality. If you're really a big believer in the republic like you claim, why is it that when Trump gets elected to do exactly this job, you impeded it every turn?

• 1:18:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they don't want it to happen.

• 1:18:38Speaker 02

  They don't.

• 1:18:39Joe Rogan?

  Because it was a part of the strategy for a uniparty. I mean, this is Elon came on and was, you know- Was very passionate about wanting to explain this to people. I mean, it's one of the reasons why he did it before the election. Like, you have to understand the plan that's in place. And what they're doing is, they're trying to make it so that no one but the Democrats can ever win ever again. And one of the best ways to do that is to ship untold numbers of people to swing states.

• 1:19:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, which is what they're doing.

• 1:19:09Joe Rogan?

  It's what they did. They didn't just do it, they flew them out there, they gave them EBT cards, they put them on social security. We had this woman, we documented, we talked about this woman who worked for, I've gotta forget which department, but her job was to turn these people from illegal immigrants into what she described, they described to her as clients. And so, you would tell these people, are you? Yes. So, her question was to them, do you have a permanent disability? So, do you have headaches? Does your back hurt? I get headaches, my back hurts. I guess I'm permanently disabled.

• 1:19:49Joe Rogan?

  And all you have to do is like, you don't have to have like, like, clear evidence, you have, all your fucking discs are fused, you can't walk, or you have, no, you just have to have a fucking back hurt. Your back hurts. Well, what fucking man who's a laborer, who's thirty-five years old, doesn't have fucking back pain? Like y'all do. So, they come to you, they said, do you have headaches and back pain?

• 1:20:11Speaker 02

  What man is an office worker doesn't have back pain?

• 1:20:13Joe Rogan?

  Right, exactly. Fucking everybody does. You get older, you get back pain, especially if you don't take care of your back. And so, these guys are all being roped into the system, and then, they get money. They get social security money. They get money from taxpayers, and it's essentially forever. So, if you can get those people to vote, they will most certainly vote for the people that are giving them that money. Right?

• 1:20:39Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 1:20:39Joe Rogan?

  Most certainly vote for the people that are moving them into the Roosevelt Hotel in New York City.

• 1:20:44Speaker 02

  Just like how Muslims will vote. Even though at the local level, they oppose all leftist policy, they'll vote at a national level for leftists, because they bring in their family members. They bring in, they allow the importation of people that they want here. So, yeah, they're... They utilize the system for the aims and for Democrats, this is all good. And of course, for Republicans, it's all bad. And Elon's right. He is right that Democrats, and here's what I see, the bird's eye view, right? Trump, what they're gonna do, Democrats gonna win the midterms by hook or by crook. They're gonna win the midterms. And when they do, if they have the power in the House to do this, they're gonna impeach him day one. And we'll have, now it'll be the thrice impeached president, right?

• 1:21:29Speaker 02

  And they'll obstruct him. They'll obstruct his agenda the entire step of the way under this elongated impeachment. And they'll just run out the clock.

• 1:21:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:38Speaker 02

  They'll just run it out.

• 1:21:39Joe Rogan?

  It's all pretty fucking crazy. It's really crazy. Gad Saad has a great way to describe this. He calls it suicidal empathy. And, you know, a lot of these people that are on the left, that are self-described leftists, they're very kind people and they want, you know, everyone to have a chance to live in America and be good people. And they don't understand they're being used as pawns by much more cynical people that are just trying to get total control. And if you want to know what total control looks like and what kind of restrictions could be imposed on a Western society, look no further than the UK. Look what's going on in England right now.

• 1:22:23Joe Rogan?

  12,000 people have been arrested so far last year for, in the last year, rather, for social media posts, just social media posts criticizing immigration. There was some new thing that they just passed that makes it so that you're supposed to tell on people who are talking in pubs, who are having conversations in pubs that you think are dangerous conversations.

• 1:22:51Speaker 02

  There was that woman in the UK who was sa-ed and then called the guy a name via text.

• 1:22:56Joe Rogan?

  Yes. She called him a faggot.

• 1:22:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:59Speaker 02

  She called, yeah.

• 1:23:00Joe Rogan?

  She was sexually assaulted. She called him a faggot and then she was arrested.

• 1:23:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, she was arrested. I was, and I remember arguing on Pierce Morgan, I was debating. With a leftist on this, this was the topic at the time.

• 1:23:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:12Speaker 02

  And the leftist, who looked to me like he was a faggot too, said, uh, he was defending it tooth and nail, right? This is a good thing because we want to get rid of stigma. The idea is to try to de-stigmatize the thing. See, words create stigma and stigma creates harm values and harm values are evil, they're bad. That's, that's the whole moral system. If, if we reduce harm, that's moral, if we increase harm, that's immoral. So that, that's the zero sum way that they look at this, right?

• 1:23:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:41Speaker 02

  If you're increasing it, bad, if you're decreasing it, good. So if we're decreasing stigmatization of an activity that we think is protected, then that's reducing harm. Therefore, that's the moral position.

• 1:23:51Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 1:23:52Speaker 02

  They are crazy. That is actually a crazy way to look at the world.

• 1:23:55Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's very dystopian. It's, it's very spooky that it, it's happening so quickly. And that the UK has become the, the leader in the world for arresting people for social media posts. No one would have ever saw that coming five, six years ago. But this is what happens when you get total control of a population. You don't, and you don't stop where you're at. You continue to move forward. You continue to try to get more and more control. And this is this new thing where they're trying to, um, uh, get people to turn people in for bar talk, which is just crazy. It's just crazy. So that's where it goes. If you're really a liberal, a real liberal, a real progressive person who really believes in free speech,

• 1:24:40Joe Rogan?

  you should believe in all speech and you have to. I mean, this was the ADL's position way back in the day when they would allow the Ku Klux Klan to march. They would say.

• 1:24:48Speaker 02

  And then fight for the right to do so.

• 1:24:50Joe Rogan?

  Yes. I mean, this is what it used to be. It used to be an understanding that as complicated as this thing is, you've got to allow people to say horrible things. So that you can counter them with better points and you make a better argument and then people see your side and then society moves forward in a generally positive way.

• 1:25:07Speaker 02

  You know, in the online dialectic, the way that it moves between groups, and I think that now, online influencers, podcasters, political commentators actually do have political, they have some political capital now, which can be spent the same way low-level politicians have political capital, which can now be spent. They actually are connected oftentimes with politicians and operate as mouthpieces on behalf of whatever that political arm is.

• 1:25:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, you would say that about the right too, wouldn't you?

• 1:25:34Speaker 02

  Of course, but I don't see it as prevalent as I do with the left. The left, for instance, there was a whole thing that used to go on on Twitch where an organization came in and bought up all the Twitch mouthpieces. That's what they did. And like, this is something which has been going on for a long time. But what's interesting with the political capital angle from these leftists, they don't care what the means are. The ends are what, that's all they care about, right? The means to get there, totally irrelevant to them. From their view, though, that makes a sick sort of sense. They believe that they're fighting against

• 1:26:14Speaker 02

  Nazis, literal Nazis. So if you believed that you were in a war with literal Nazis, what wouldn't you do to complete that war? What means wouldn't you go to? What means of sabotage would you not do? What cars would you not blow up? What cops would you not eliminate in order to stop the rise of the new Hitler?

• 1:26:33Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:26:34Speaker 02

  And it's like, and they're expending their political capital on that message. And that message has a lot of influence on people.

• 1:26:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It also, there's so many people that are getting attention by feeding into the rhetoric. There's so many people that are making viral clips of them threatening, you know, like menacing, like these weird, dorky liberal guys, like these guys that you would think of as pacifists are literally calling for violence. I got one of them because it's like the most unlikely guy. Like, you see this guy doing this, like, "Hey buddy", like, "Who, what? What are you saying?"

• 1:27:12Speaker 02

  Who's following you into battle?

• 1:27:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say that because it's, it's, the way he says it to is so like, like he's watched too many fucking TV shows.

• 1:27:25Joe Rogan?

  This guy, let's, because it's, it's the terminology that he uses that is, is actually kind of funny. If it wasn't so scary. Put this on real quick.

• 1:27:33Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 1:27:34Joe Rogan?

  Because it's so.

• 1:27:37Joe Rogan?

  You see this guy's doughy face and his understanding of real violence. Listen to this.

• 1:27:42Speaker 05

  When combat starts, we all roll initiative.

• 1:27:46Speaker 05

  I'm gonna say that again. And anyone, everyone knows what I'm talking about when I say this. When combat starts, we all roll initiative.

• 1:28:01Joe Rogan?

  I mean, I hate to laugh. Because it's kind of fucking serious because they're, they're, they're inciting violence and they're, they're calling for insurrection. They're calling for people to take to the streets and start violence. But that guy, like, what?

• 1:28:15Speaker 02

  You're not gonna roll initiative?

• 1:28:17Joe Rogan?

  What does it even mean?

• 1:28:18Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, I think, I think it just means we all go.

• 1:28:21Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:28:22Speaker 02

  When violence start, we all go.

• 1:28:23Speaker 04

  Dungeons and Dragons reference.

• 1:28:25Joe Rogan?

  Is it?

• 1:28:25Speaker 04

  Rolling, you know.

• 1:28:26Speaker 02

  Oh, rolling?

• 1:28:28Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no, no, no!

• 1:28:31Speaker 04

  Oh, wait a minute.

• 1:28:31Joe Rogan?

  No!

• 1:28:32Speaker 04

  The tweet says Dungeons and Dragons in it, I don't even know.

• 1:28:35Joe Rogan?

  Oh, god.

• 1:28:36Speaker 04

  Says Dungeons and Dragons nerds means business, I think.

• 1:28:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh, so, do a search on that. Does roll initiative, is that a part of Dungeons and Dragons? Roll that, because I only know of Dungeons and Dragons from Stranger Things.

• 1:28:47Speaker 02

  Does his AR do 2D6 damage?

• 1:28:52Joe Rogan?

  But it's just the menacing way that he stares into the camera.

• 1:28:56Speaker 04

  It determines your turn in combat.

• 1:28:57Joe Rogan?

  Rolling for initiative determines the turn order in combat. Each player and monster rolls a 20-sided die and adds their dexterity modifier. Oh, god! But I mean, this is what I'm saying. It's like, it's, a lot of it is cosplay.

• 1:29:12Speaker 02

  That does sound like he is saying, though, we all go there, right?

• 1:29:15Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:29:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:16Joe Rogan?

  That's, it sounds like it's, that's what he's saying. And it's also, it gives meaning to people whose lives do not have a lot of meaning, right? Like, all of a sudden, you're a part of a greater cause. You're, you're a part of a very important movement.

• 1:29:28Speaker 02

  You're stopping Nazis.

• 1:29:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you're stopping Nazis and it's, you know, relatively safe from the comfort of your own home. Staring at your phone on TikTok.

• 1:29:37Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:29:37Joe Rogan?

  You know, and you get all excited about it and you cheer and these are the same people that cheered when Charlie Kirk got shot. Um, for just talking like that was fine, but this one is not good, you know, it's, it's, it's all like, it's very fucked up, man.

• 1:29:51Speaker 02

  Well, and they're gonna kill, they'll kill more commentators, they can get away with it. Um, happily, I mean, part of that whole signal chat. That's dangerous that people aren't talking about, that's probably the more, most dangerous aspect of it. It, it, and I can't prove this, but it's been my experience. That left wing communities and left wing groups, especially online communities and online groups. Really pander to the mentally ill in a big way. Really pander to them. And it's, I think that it's a form of weaponization. They want to attract the extremely mentally ill into these communities and it helps with actually what is radicalization? And they play on the fact that they're mentally ill in order to do this.

• 1:30:33Joe Rogan?

  Well, this is Antifa, right? Like this is, this is why.

• 1:30:36Speaker 02

  It's not just Antifa, it goes beyond that.

• 1:30:38Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 1:30:39Speaker 02

  If you go to some of these TikTokers communities, you go to some of the online political pundits communities who are far left. Okay, these people who are in there are Fruit Loops, man.

• 1:30:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:49Speaker 02

  They are lunatics. And they're pandered to, they're pandered to, oh, okay, you can't say this to them, that's ableist. You can't tell them this is, you're a weirdo because that's mean, you can't. And not only are they pandered to, but I think that that's the source of the weapon. If it's the case that these people don't care about death. They don't care, like, oh, the outcome's going to be death, that guy shot at the, uh, the ICE agents. Not too long ago, remember he was on top of the roof? He was shooting across with I think a Mauser rifle and they, they dusted him, they killed him, or he shot himself. I don't remember which.

• 1:31:21Joe Rogan?

  When, when was this?

• 1:31:22Speaker 02

  This was a few months back.

• 1:31:24Joe Rogan?

  I don't know about this one, I don't think.

• 1:31:25Speaker 02

  No, there was a guy, he was.

• 1:31:26Joe Rogan?

  It's just how callous have become.

• 1:31:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was taking shots at, uh, I believe it was ICE agents in front of the ICE facility.

• 1:31:33Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's right.

• 1:31:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was using, I believe he was using like a Mauser rifle or something.

• 1:31:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, okay, now I remember.

• 1:31:38Speaker 02

  And early on with the Charlie Kirk thing, they were actually making these connections because he had used a, a Mauser as well. Right, to shoot Charlie Kirk, that was the, so people were making those early connections. Wait, is this, is this a sequence of events? Does the Mauser mean something here? Does that particular rifle have special meaning? You know how people are online.

• 1:31:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:56Speaker 02

  But anyway, uh, the interesting thing is like, they don't care if they die. They're, they're dying martyrs, they don't care. And it's really easy to weaponize mentally ill people that way because they don't care. These are the same people who have the high suicide rates for a reason, because they're already mentally ill, like the Troons and others, which many of them you find are connected to trans people almost every time.

• 1:32:18Joe Rogan?

  Also SSRIs.

• 1:32:19Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:32:20Joe Rogan?

  This is the other problem, is that, how many of these people are on these psychiatric medications? That violent ideation is a part of the side effects of these suicidal, or, excuse me, these psychiatric drugs. There's a, a lot of people that have psychotic thoughts when they get on some of these different SSRIs and different psychiatric medications. So you've got people that are already fucked up mentally, and then you've got them on these medications that cause them to do all kinds of crazy things.

• 1:32:52Speaker 02

  And aren't women, aren't women taking much more in the way of SSRI pills than men are?

• 1:32:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:58Speaker 02

  And who do we see is on the bullhorns and loudspeakers at most of these events? It's women?

• 1:33:03Joe Rogan?

  Well, particularly liberal women.

• 1:33:04Speaker 02

  Particularly liberal women, yeah.

• 1:33:06Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure you've seen the statistics, but I actually-

• 1:33:08Speaker 02

  Very lopsided.

• 1:33:09Joe Rogan?

  Save them because they're kind of nutty. Uh, the, which, which interesting is, the num, like, the least mentally ill in terms of numbers is conservative men. Conservative men, I think it's like-

• 1:33:23Speaker 02

  Because they're normal.

• 1:33:25Joe Rogan?

  I think, okay, young liberal women, 56% report a mental health diagnosis. Young moderate women, 18, 29, 28%. Young conservative women, 27%, only slightly less. Um, so for men, it is 34% of all liberal men, 34%. So a third of all liberal men are mentally ill, 22% of moderate men, and 16% of conservative men.

• 1:33:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, but do you know what the lunatics argue? When you bring that up? These lunatics, they'll argue, no, no, no. The conservative men are just as mentally ill. It's just undiagnosed because there's a stigma in conservative communities about going to get your mental illness diagnosed. And I always point out, and I think this is an interesting way to point this out, like, maybe they're not going to get diagnosed because they don't have a problem. Did you ever think of that?

• 1:34:23Joe Rogan?

  It's possible. It's possible it's undiagnosed because I think that is accurate, though, that there is a stigma about mental health and therapy and things along those lines in conservative. I mean, if you want to like-

• 1:34:34Speaker 02

  I agree, but I also think that what happens is, when you're talking especially about the voodoo that is psychology, and it is voodoo.

• 1:34:42Joe Rogan?

  It is voodoo.

• 1:34:43Speaker 02

  I have very little respect for psychology.

• 1:34:45Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:34:46Speaker 02

  I don't even consider it science. I consider that there are scientific methods used for data gathering, but I don't consider psychology a science at all.

• 1:34:53Joe Rogan?

  And that's psychology. Psychiatry gets even weirder because then you start adding medication.

• 1:34:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:34:59Joe Rogan?

  You're not just talking about therapy.

• 1:35:00Speaker 02

  It's all voodoo, as far as I'm concerned. I think that men often, especially conservative men, get as much out of, you know, their close relationships with friends and family as they would going to a psychologist. In other words, I think just having somebody to talk to, who's a close friend, who's intricately familiar with your situation, probably gives you more value than going to a complete stranger who has learned manipulation techniques. That's what they learn, essentially, is manipulation techniques. I think there's more value there. And so I think that the stigma which exists there doesn't exist because it's like you're not manly, which is how they try to frame it. I think the stigma exists there because so many conservative men go, well, I tried that shit and it was nonsense. I tried it and it sucked. I tried it and it was worse.

• 1:35:45Speaker 02

  I went to marriage counseling, did nothing. Sided with the wife, right? I went for this issue, did nothing. But when I went out and had some beers with my friends, that actually helped relieve some of these issues.

• 1:35:58Joe Rogan?

  I think the problem with that is there's a lot of guys who don't have good friends, you know, and you don't have someone that you can count on, unfortunately. You know, there's a lot of men out there that are lost.

• 1:36:10Speaker 02

  I agree, but I think that the conservative men seem to like they have- Closer longevity with friends than progressive men do.

• 1:36:16Joe Rogan?

  Yes, and they don't abandon them when they change their opinions on things.

• 1:36:19Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:36:20Joe Rogan?

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• 1:37:45Joe Rogan?

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• 1:38:28Joe Rogan?

  quality, but without the insane markup. Find your new fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com/rogan. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. That's Q U I N C E dot com slash rogan. Report excellent mental health compared to 20% of liberals. That's a big difference.

• 1:39:00Speaker 02

  Huge.

• 1:39:01Joe Rogan?

  It's a giant difference.

• 1:39:02Speaker 02

  I don't think stigma could account for that.

• 1:39:03Joe Rogan?

  No, it can't. It's like, it's not just stigma, it's like, it's also like, what is, what does it mean to be conservative? Does it mean, you know, taking account for your own actions, discipline, hard work ethic? All those things are actually good for your mental health. Like, like pulling yourself up and getting back to work and doing things.

• 1:39:23Speaker 02

  I think, I think now, and I think maybe it always should have been framed this way. I think now for, for the label of conservative to apply, we really kind of start with religious foundationalism.

• 1:39:34Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:39:35Speaker 02

  That's what is becoming, fast becoming the delineation.

• 1:39:40Joe Rogan?

  Right. Having a framework.

• 1:39:41Speaker 02

  Having the framework.

• 1:39:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:42Speaker 02

  And the religious framework is almost instantly going to put you in that, moving towards that conservative camp almost every single time. And, and I think, I think that that's a necessary component now. If we're trying to make these political delineations, it becomes tough. What's a Republican or a neocon versus a conservative versus a this versus that? It comes down to foundationalism of framework.

• 1:40:06Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:40:07Speaker 02

  Like you were just saying, and the framework of Christianity, Christian ethics, huge delineation point between the right and the left, who rejects that for harm principles, utilitarianism, and various other sorts of frameworks.

• 1:40:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and they'll also point to, you know, what Christianity has done throughout history and the amount of harm that it's caused. But it's kind of like every power structure throughout history you could point to in that way.

• 1:40:35Speaker 02

  Well, it was what was there.

• 1:40:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:36Speaker 02

  The thing is, like, the Catholic Church, the Catholic Church gets a lot of shit for this. Well, look at all the horrible things that the Catholic Church did. It's like, well, the Catholic Church was the whole known world once.

• 1:40:48Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:40:48Speaker 02

  You know, all of Europe was the Catholic Church, not, you know, like, all of it was. You can't have organizations which span whole nations and countries, ethnicities, cultures, integrate themselves into it, and not have corruption, that, I don't care what system it is, pointing to it and saying it's because they were Catholic, that's where it becomes absurd.

• 1:41:11Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:41:11Speaker 02

  They were corrupt, there was corruption.

• 1:41:14Joe Rogan?

  Because they're human.

• 1:41:15Speaker 02

  Because they're human, not because they're Catholic.

• 1:41:16Joe Rogan?

  Right, right. One of the things that I always try to point out to people, they go, "Why do you go to church?" Like, because when I was younger, I was very cynical about religion, and then I've gotten older, I was... One of the things that I always say is, if there was a pill that could make you as nice as the people that I go to church with, everybody would be on it.

• 1:41:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:41:35Joe Rogan?

  They are the nicest fucking people you will ever encounter. When we leave the church parking lot...

• 1:41:40Speaker 02

  Are they nice or are they kind?

• 1:41:40Joe Rogan?

  They're kind.

• 1:41:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're kind.

• 1:41:42Joe Rogan?

  Kind and nice, they're all the above. They're like, very friendly, happy people, but when you leave the church parking lot, or even when you're entering, they're the... They, everybody lets everybody in. It's like, no one rushes ahead. It's like, you go ahead, and then you go ahead. It's like, the most self-organized, most charitable way of exiting a parking lot I've ever experienced in my life. The opposite of a concert. You go to a great concert, everybody's like, fucking, on everybody's bumper, trying to weasel in, people are honking, fuck you. In church, it's like, one person goes, then another person goes, no, you go, wave, and then everybody's fine, and everybody's happy. It's like, if that was, if you could take a pill that could do that to you, if therapy could do that to you, we should all be on therapy. We should all take that pill.

• 1:42:26Speaker 02

  Philosophy can do that for you, because the phenomenon that you're talking about is the me philosophy. And so, what, you're going to church, it's not all about you.

• 1:42:35Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:42:36Speaker 02

  And that's why you have those types of interactions with people. Wait, I'm going, you go to a concert, that's for you. That's for me, not for these strangers. I'm going there because I want to be entertained. That's for me. You go to church, it's not for you.

• 1:42:50Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:42:51Speaker 02

  And the thing is, is um, it's the, it's the kind of materialism view, the materialistic view of pure materialism reduces always to me, me, me, me, because what else can there be?

• 1:43:04Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:43:05Speaker 02

  There's just me and the material I engage with. There's nothing outside of that. So why engage as though there's something outside of that? That doesn't just lead to nihilism, but it's the beginning stages of understanding the distinction between religious foundationalism. And basically everything else, the reduction doesn't come down to me. And that's why those interactions seem so much better, because they are, because people are thinking about you.

• 1:43:30Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:43:30Speaker 02

  It's like, what a concept. Imagine a world where people think about somebody besides themselves.

• 1:43:36Joe Rogan?

  And they think about, they can think about everybody as a part of a community. And a collective community that you care about, that has value to you. And they're, you know, there's.

• 1:43:45Speaker 02

  And then you go, why does mental health rate so much better in these communities? It's like, well, isn't it interesting how much they think about other people than just themselves and duties? To those people, instead of just me, me, me, me, me.

• 1:43:58Joe Rogan?

  They're the kindest people you're ever gonna come across.

• 1:44:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:44:00Joe Rogan?

  And I think there's a lot of value in that. And I think the people that are cynical about that, because they don't want to believe in fairy tales, or they don't want to be stupid, they don't want to get duped by, like, like, there's a foundation to that. If you just look, forget about some of the stuff that's in the Bible that, you know, it gets weird when you get old. Like you go back into the old, old, old stuff, because like, for sure, human beings had some sort of an influence on what was written down and what wasn't written down. But you get just to the teachings of Christ. I can't find any faults in it. Like, it's all about being kind. It's all about this, this idea that we're all in this together and that you're supposed

• 1:44:44Joe Rogan?

  to lift each other up and look after each other. There's no faults in it. It's, it's not like you have to kill the non-believers. It's not like you get to rape and pillage for the non-believers and the infidels must die. There's not.

• 1:44:58Speaker 02

  That's why the, that's why Christians believe in objective truth. That it must be objective truth because otherwise, why is most of the world following this as though it's objective truth? We seem to be leaning towards this as though this must be the thing which is objectively real and objectively true and a thing which we can point to that is. Because when people are introduced to it, like you just said, it's really hard and difficult to find fault in it. It's not just that. You know, it's interesting. If we reverse it, if we say, what could I do that actually would be the best for me, me, me, me, me? It would still be that.

• 1:45:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:34Speaker 02

  Which is the funniest part of the whole thing. It's like, both ways, it works for you, even if it's not all about you, or it works for you even if it is all about you. It's still gonna be the better message out of the two.

• 1:45:45Joe Rogan?

  It's, it's definitely a better framework for living your life. And there's a lot of people that just reject that, that are, that think of themselves as intelligent. You know, they think of themselves as intelligent and well-read and educated.

• 1:46:01Speaker 02

  Too smart for that.

• 1:46:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'm too smart for that.

• 1:46:02Speaker 02

  Too smart for all that.

• 1:46:03Joe Rogan?

  I'm, I'm an atheist. Any atheist needs to take eight grams of mushrooms. Just.

• 1:46:09Speaker 02

  Do a little DMT?

• 1:46:11Joe Rogan?

  Do a little DMT. And you're like, oh, I don't know anything. You, you think you know things. You don't know a fucking thing. You just know what you've experienced. And I think that these...

• 1:46:25Joe Rogan?

  The world is better off if people have a great moral and ethical framework. I think morals and ethics and being kind is one of the most important values that human beings can ever possess if you want to live in a productive and healthy community.

• 1:46:40Speaker 02

  Completely agree, and I think that kindness, I make a delineation between kindness and niceness. Because I think it's often kind not to be nice.

• 1:46:49Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:46:49Speaker 02

  But I do think that you can be nice and it may not be kind.

• 1:46:53Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:46:54Speaker 02

  And so.

• 1:46:54Joe Rogan?

  That's true.

• 1:46:55Speaker 02

  So I make a delineation between those things. I don't think that kindness, though, has much variance. Kindness is looking after the interest of somebody who's not me.

• 1:47:03Joe Rogan?

  And it makes everybody, it's actually selfish, because it makes you feel good, too.

• 1:47:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's, I mean, there is something.

• 1:47:09Joe Rogan?

  You could look at it that way.

• 1:47:09Speaker 02

  Sure, from the position of trying to convince the unbeliever, right? Appealing to their self-interest may not be the worst idea.

• 1:47:17Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:47:18Speaker 02

  You know, appealing to like, well, has the lack of community and the, like, let's just assume for a second. Let's just assume it's all bullshit and it's all nonsense. Every bit of it is just totally made up. We just like, we just made it up, right? But we all acted as though it was true. If it's the case that your whole framework is that we just want a society that really works well and does the best it can possibly do for everyone, then shouldn't you, by your own framework, just pretend it's true?

• 1:47:46Joe Rogan?

  Right, yeah.

• 1:47:47Speaker 02

  Shouldn't you just act as though it's true anyway?

• 1:47:49Joe Rogan?

  Jordan Peterson had a very good point about that.

• 1:47:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:51Joe Rogan?

  About believing in God, that if you believe, if you act as if God is real, you will have a better life. Like, it works. It really does work.

• 1:48:04Speaker 02

  Almost like a universal truth?

• 1:48:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's very fascinating. It's fascinating that people that are self-professed atheists and people that think of themselves as too intelligent for religion won't acknowledge that. They don't want to believe that. And so many of them that I know that are self-professed atheists are some of the most miserable people. They're very depressed. A lot of them are on psychiatric medications. A lot of them are in therapy. A lot of them are really fucked up.

• 1:48:28Speaker 02

  They're almost cursed.

• 1:48:34Speaker 02

  Almost seems like that, doesn't it?

• 1:48:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:36Speaker 02

  And the thing, well, the thing is interesting is like, um, I've talked with a lot of atheists, debated with a lot of atheists, especially on the effects of Christianity in society against the effects of atheism. And I know what pure secular states have led to. That's what communism was. That was a purely secular state.

• 1:48:54Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:48:54Speaker 02

  Where you really, where you really wall off the church from the state. But here, we pretend that it's secular and they get all the benefits of it being, quote, "secular," but it's not secular at all.

• 1:49:05Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:49:05Speaker 02

  Politicians are constantly voted in based on the fact that they have an X amount of value structure, and that's what they're going to implement legislatively on you. The whole secular thing, totally made up. It's, and, and them pretending that that's even, even real, or has ever existed as a real framework in the United States, just nonsense.

• 1:49:24Joe Rogan?

  Not only that, but I think there is a natural default in the human mind to be attracted to a structure. And, uh, if that structure is a Christian structure, you're attracted to all the Christian values that we've just discussed being so positive and beneficial to you. But if you're not, and you go to a leftist progressive structure, leftist in particular, um, like a Marxist structure, uh, what, you know, what you're seeing is a complete lack of forgiveness. They don't have that built into the system. You know, one of the, one of the beautiful things about Christianity is forgiveness. And the recognition that we're all sinners and we all fuck up and we're all human and we're all flawed.

• 1:50:06Joe Rogan?

  And that you could, you could move on and be better and you can atone for these sins and you could recognize that, you know, yes, you've made a mistake, but here's the best way to move forward and be a better person. Society at whole recognizes that you are me and I am you and we're all kind of the same thing. We all fuck up and we're all, we're, we're all just human beings, but there's a pathway. It's a pathway to forgiveness. There's zero pathway in this, in, in leftism. That's, that's the most horrible thing when you watch these pylons online over like the most innocuous.

• 1:50:40Speaker 02

  And so there, what's funny with leftists is their pathway is just everything's permitted.

• 1:50:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:46Speaker 02

  And the pathway from the Christians, no, not everything is permitted, but almost everything can be forgiven.

• 1:50:52Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:50:52Speaker 02

  And that I would see as the big distinction. If my, there, you know, there's a, a story that I heard, it, cause I'm Eastern Orthodox. That's, um, that's what I follow. And I, I heard a, it was a great story my priest told me. And so basically how this went is there was monks, uh, they lived in a commune and one monk, uh, liked to get drunk. That was his big vice, right? And he drank a lot of beer. And he did this clear up until the day that he died. And when he died, uh, everyone was crying. And a monk said, well, you know, why, why is everyone crying? You know, he held that vice clear up till the day he died. You know, and the head of the, of the, the, the abbot who was there, he said, yeah.

• 1:51:36Speaker 02

  But the last few years, he cut it in half.

• 1:51:41Joe Rogan?

  He was on the path.

• 1:51:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was, well, he's just saying, I'm gonna recognize all the progress that this man who had this horrible vice, uh, did, right? There was still progress, he was still trying to move towards the virtue.

• 1:51:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:55Speaker 02

  Now, maybe he never got to it, but we're, I'm still gonna recognize that he was trying to. And maybe he, he was not able to surmount it, he was not able to get past his demons, maybe he wasn't able to overtake them all. But he was at least attempting to.

• 1:52:09Joe Rogan?

  Right, that's the thing.

• 1:52:10Speaker 02

  That's the, that's the thing.

• 1:52:12Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's, it's this idea of like someone being a perfect person is just, it's nonsense, doesn't exist. And so if you don't have a pathway to forgiveness, and if you don't, if you don't have that built into your society, you're always gonna have people pointing out the people that are the bad people. And it's gonna keep moving in that direction. And it's one of the things you see in the left in particular, they eat their own. And it, it's drives me crazy when I see that also from the right, I'm like. You don't you see that the people that you criticize are doing this and now you're doing this? You guys are turning on each other over the most innocuous things and forming tribes where you're attacking each other even though you have mostly shared values instead of being charitable and recognizing that, you know, these are just human beings and they

• 1:52:57Joe Rogan?

  make mistakes.

• 1:52:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:52:58Joe Rogan?

  But the left eats itself more than any fucking group that I've ever encountered over almost nothing and they love to pile on because they're absolutely terrified that it's going to come for them. They're fucking terrified and so they will go out of their way to shame and attack and to take some of the energy away from them.

• 1:53:19Speaker 02

  But do you think there's a unity in that? Like if we were to, if we were to look at this again like from a bird's eye view, I agree with you, the left eats itself way more than the right does, though the right eats itself too, right? And we've been seeing a lot of that post Charlie Kirk's death. I, though I think that that was mostly power vacuum based and who gets to fill the power vacuum.

• 1:53:38Joe Rogan?

  Exactly, that's what I think too.

• 1:53:39Speaker 02

  I still think that it's, it turned into a dog eat dog for the power vacuum fight and it was a criticism of values, foundationalism and all of that. But from the left view, if you eat, if you're eating your own, right, and you eat the message apart to the point where you get down to the foundation and now everybody's in lock and step, is that better for political power or worse? Like if you constantly are just eating the wrong, you know, nope, that message isn't pure enough and they gobble them up.

• 1:54:07Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 1:54:08Speaker 02

  Until you get the monster, right, who has the right message, they're all on board? Is, is that the better way to achieve this kind of like political paradigm that they want? That's my question.

• 1:54:18Joe Rogan?

  It's very naive. It's, it's a naive perspective that eventually you're going to boil it down to purity and you're not going to. It's not going to happen. You're, you're never going to get far left enough.

• 1:54:28Speaker 02

  There'll always be something else to eat them over on.

• 1:54:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, also you're advocating for communism and advocating for communism is so wild and people, there's no examples of it ever being done right. It's, there's zero. Imagine advocating for something that has zero success.

• 1:54:46Joe Rogan?

  Zero. None. Like you can, it doesn't exist. It does, it's never happened. There's never been, why? Well, I'll tell you why. Because if everybody has to share all the money, then who's gonna enforce that? Who's gonna do, who, who's gonna tell people that you have to give up your house?

• 1:55:03Speaker 02

  A state?

• 1:55:04Joe Rogan?

  Who's gonna tell people to give up your life?

• 1:55:04Speaker 02

  The state.

• 1:55:05Joe Rogan?

  The state. And the state has guns.

• 1:55:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so you're advocating for violence.

• 1:55:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:08Joe Rogan?

  Well, you don't think you're advocating for violence, but you are. You're advocating for hard men with, with guns.

• 1:55:14Speaker 02

  Guns to enforce your will.

• 1:55:15Joe Rogan?

  And those people are gonna wind up living in mansions and eating filet mignon and everybody else is gonna be eating oats and gruel and, uh, that's...

• 1:55:23Speaker 02

  Which is exactly what's always happened when it's tried.

• 1:55:26Joe Rogan?

  Always.

• 1:55:26Speaker 02

  And the thing, the thing is interesting too, is there's other, there's other value set issues that are really simple to point to. Like, okay, nothing's worth anything? Like, how do I get my guitar?

• 1:55:35Joe Rogan?

  Right. It's nonsense.

• 1:55:37Speaker 02

  Like, just, y- you know, all the communist nations were always setting their market prices based on what capitalist was, markets would set for prices. And it's like, how do I value a guitar? If it's, i- if, if it's supposed to just be mine in the commune and then yours also and his also, how do we set a value assessment here? What makes the Epiphone better than the...

• 1:55:59Joe Rogan?

  Um, another, sorry folks, we had a crash. Software crash. Another problem is this idea of the equality of outcome, that everybody should get an equal amount. That is crazy talk because we all know that equality of effort does not exist. There's a reason why there's outliers and the reason why they're so compelling and so inspirational. It's like, this fucking guy got up at 5 o'clock in the morning and ran every morning before work and hustled and, and ate the right food and, and fucking did the right things and was thinking and pushing and was open-minded and, and he became radically successful.

• 1:56:34Speaker 02

  But from each according to their ability, Joe.

• 1:56:38Joe Rogan?

  But that, no, it's not even maximizing everyone's ability because you're basically giving a safety net for fucking lazy people. And that's not good for them either.

• 1:56:46Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:56:46Joe Rogan?

  No, being inspired by others' success is a good thing. It's a good thing. And the only way that happens is if you let someone be exceptional, and the only way you let something be exceptional, you have to incentivize them. Well, what's the incentive? The incentive is they get more value out of their hard work. They get more money, they get a nicer house, they get, like, what are you gonna do? You're gonna decide that people have to like mate? Like, that the women don't find this guy attractive, but that's not fair? So they have to be with this guy and they have to find him attractive? Or that, you know, a woman has to find this man attractive?

• 1:57:19Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:57:19Joe Rogan?

  Even though he's a dumpy fucking lazy loser? Like, this is the way of the world.

• 1:57:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:24Joe Rogan?

  And competition is a good thing for human beings. It inspires us. It's good. It lets you know that there's a higher bar that can be achieved.

• 1:57:32Speaker 02

  And you often used to know who the lazy people were based on the living conditions they had.

• 1:57:36Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:57:36Speaker 02

  Isn't that interesting?

• 1:57:37Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:57:38Speaker 02

  Just like you would often know if there was an ugly kid that their parents probably were pretty ugly, right? But it's true, right?

• 1:57:45Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:57:45Speaker 02

  It is true. The idea here is like, um, people tend to baton dating in their league, at least men do, right? Or try to, right?

• 1:57:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:54Speaker 02

  Uh, women love their league, but the thing is, is the reason you commonly see good-looking people with good-looking people and ugly people with ugly people is because that's about what you can get.

• 1:58:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:05Speaker 02

  But it's the same thing when it comes to ability and skill in whatever it is that you're doing, right?

• 1:58:10Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:58:10Speaker 02

  Hey, thing is, is like, oftentimes, if you ask a person, my dad used to say this all the time, he was right. If you ask a person, are you where you're at based on things that happened to you or because of you? He said 98% of people will say because of things that happened to me. And then when you ask them about what those things are, you'll find out that it's because of them. You'll find out it's because of choices they've made, things that they've done. That's actually what's responsible for the conditions that they're in.

• 1:58:40Joe Rogan?

  Oh, and by the way, for people, that's not the case, like trust fund kids are the most miserable motherfuckers I have ever met in my life.

• 1:58:48Speaker 02

  And they lose it all anyway.

• 1:58:49Joe Rogan?

  They, a lot of them do, but so they, a lot of them are not fully formed human beings. And the way I always describe it, I go, it's like if you give, if you make cement and you don't add all the stuff in the right way, you can't fix it later.

• 1:59:04Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:59:04Joe Rogan?

  Right? So during the developmental process, If you're fucking Joffrey from Game of Thrones, like, what are the odds that Joffrey's gonna fucking figure it out and get his shit together and be cool when he gets older?

• 1:59:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're just Dexter and that's it.

• 1:59:15Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 1:59:16Speaker 02

  Right? You're just like, you have the informed experience of the serial killing and it's like, there's just no fixing you.

• 1:59:21Joe Rogan?

  There's no fixing.

• 1:59:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's no fixing it. I get that. I just, the thing that's interesting is like, um, when I look at the communist paradigm versus the capitalist, you know, that's coming back. That paradigm's coming back and for a while it was kind of shoved off as like, that's boomer shit. You know, but the Cold War's over, grandpa, right? Cold War's over, grandpa. There's no communist versus capitalist. Versus, that's all, it's like, not, it's not, it's not done.

• 1:59:47Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:59:48Speaker 02

  Not at all.

• 1:59:48Joe Rogan?

  It's not done. It's a story as old as time and it keeps fucking repeating itself. And it's just weird that people, well, I, look, but also I believe in social safety nets because I think that there's a lot of people that are very unfortunate. And there's a lot of people that do grow up with shitty parents or parents that have a bad situation in life. Maybe the father dies or the mother dies. And there's no, like, it's good to be charitable and churches are fantastic at that. It's one of the more pure charities that you're ever gonna find because their goal is really just to help those people. Unlike what you think of as charities in the modern sense. One of the grossest fucking things today is these enormous charities that everybody thinks, "Oh, I'm gonna support this charity. It's doing so much good."

• 2:00:32Speaker 02

  Ninety percent to the CEO.

• 2:00:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, dude, I was watching this thing that was either, I think it was Live Aid. You know, one of those, uh, one of those concert things. Was Bono, what was he involved in? Was it Live Aid?

• 2:00:44Speaker 02

  I don't remember, but Bono, I remember his speech where he was like, "Capitalism's done more to take people out of poverty than anything else." I thought that was funny.

• 2:00:52Joe Rogan?

  It is funny.

• 2:00:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, but, uh, I don't remember which one he was involved in directly, but I know what you're referencing.

• 2:00:57Joe Rogan?

  Well, Mike Benz did this video today where he's explaining how an enormous percentage of that money went to regime change. Like, it went to prop up, went to prop up CIA operations. Like, the fucking money that people donated so generously to the LA fires. Did you ever see where all that went?

• 2:01:17Speaker 02

  Where?

• 2:01:18Joe Rogan?

  It went to like a hundred different nonprofits. Like, some of it was like, Uh, pro-immigration. That, uh, it was like, we, we, we talked about it the other day. We had a whole list of all the different things that have been documented.

• 2:01:33Speaker 02

  All NGOs?

• 2:01:34Joe Rogan?

  That money, oh yeah, that's all. So, very little money is ever gonna go to the actual people that lost their house. Almost all the money is gonna go to these nonprofits. All these nonprofits have overhead. It goes to their employees, it goes to the overhead costs. All these people got bonuses.

• 2:01:50Speaker 02

  But isn't that the same with the state?

• 2:01:51Joe Rogan?

  Half a million dollars went to bonuses.

• 2:01:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, but that's same with the state.

• 2:01:54Joe Rogan?

  But how crazy is that? You get a bonus for running a fucking charity? That's crazy.

• 2:01:59Speaker 02

  Huge bonuses.

• 2:02:01Joe Rogan?

  Huge bonuses.

• 2:02:02Speaker 02

  Like hundreds of thousands of dollars or millions in bonuses.

• 2:02:05Joe Rogan?

  And that's the homeless situation. This is the other thing about the homeless situation in California. Oh, we're gonna help the homeless. It's really important to donate to the homeless. Let's help the homeless. California spent 24 billion dollars on the homeless problem. It got worse. Not only did it get worse, they can't account for the money. And when the politicians have unanimously voted to try to do an audit to see where the money goes, Gavin Newsom has vetoed it. It's wild.

• 2:02:32Speaker 02

  Well, isn't it counterintuitive anyway? If you're in an area and you say, "Look, we're gonna be really good to the homeless here. We're going to give them a lot of money, a lot of entitlements. We're gonna really help them get on their feet." If you were homeless in a neighboring state, where would you go?

• 2:02:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you'd move to the place with awesome weather. They'll give you money.

• 2:02:51Speaker 02

  Where they're gonna give you money.

• 2:02:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:52Speaker 02

  And so, you know, and they do. They do just that. And so that's why these budgets become very bloated, right? People are like, "Wait a second, there used to be three homeless guys over there. Now there's a tent city. What the hell is going on?"

• 2:03:03Joe Rogan?

  And they all get free crack.

• 2:03:04Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, or free needles in their needle exchange or whatever it is. Um, and it's, it gets worse and worse. The state does the same thing. State is allocating tons and tons of cash that it gets in social security tax. It's not going to social security. It's like, these entitlements and entitlement spending.

• 2:03:20Joe Rogan?

  Well, when people found out that social security is going to illegal immigrants.

• 2:03:23Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:03:24Joe Rogan?

  An enormous amount of it. They were like, "Wait, wait, what?" And they denied it. They denied it. And then, you know, they had to fess up to it and whistleblowers and...

• 2:03:31Speaker 02

  Well, why would you have a pay-go system? Why would you have a system where you're like, "This is social safety net that you're paying into for your retirement, that you have to pay into." Why wouldn't that go in a lockbox? Why would you have it? Well, because we want access to that money right now and we'll pay it out later. That's what we'll do. We'll pay it out later.

• 2:03:50Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:03:51Speaker 02

  It's like, what? Why wouldn't you? Why wouldn't you have it?

• 2:03:54Joe Rogan?

  Sounds like misappropriation.

• 2:03:55Speaker 02

  Of course. It's wild that they're allowed to access the social security funds that are for your retirement. And then they're like, well, we're going to defund social security. So we'll shut the whole government down, right? Because then you won't get your social security checks. We'll weaponize the entitlement that should just be in a lockbox.

• 2:04:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:13Speaker 02

  You know, it's, well, we'll pass funding for it. Funding for the thing they already paid?

• 2:04:19Joe Rogan?

  Well, the idea also is that you are supposed to be paying into it so that you will get money when you retire. But your return on investment is so bad.

• 2:04:27Speaker 02

  That's terrible.

• 2:04:27Joe Rogan?

  Compared to what would happen if you spent that exact same money and put it in like a fund, a reliable fund? You'd get so much more money when you retire. Like an enormous difference.

• 2:04:38Speaker 02

  Well, now I almost feel like it's hamstringing because if it was the case that they let you keep, you could just opt out. You know, I don't want social security. I want to keep it. And then you took that and you put it in those hedge funds and retirement accounts and things like this. You would way maximize over what you get in social security.

• 2:04:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:57Speaker 02

  You know, but you can't opt out even though it's for you.

• 2:05:00Joe Rogan?

  There's nothing the government does good. Not a thing. Not a single thing. So why would they be good at that? And why would anybody support that? They're just not good at it, especially when it comes to money. There's always a bunch of shenanigans that take place, you know? And the idea that they would say, oh, social security is sacred. This, this we're going to really treat. We're going to maximize your, the amount of investment and really take care of people. We really care about people.

• 2:05:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, we care about them tons.

• 2:05:26Joe Rogan?

  It's so naive. It's just, it's so naive and so obviously an ineffective and possibly corrupt system.

• 2:05:33Speaker 02

  Why hasn't it become a weapon? Entitlements are a weapon. They're a political weapon.

• 2:05:37Joe Rogan?

  Well, it certainly helps. Yeah. And also, again, the suicidal empathy that Gad Saad talks about. If you're on the left, you think of it as being like you're an empathetic person, a kind person. You want people to have money when they retire. You want people to have Medicaid and you want people to have welfare and you want people to have SNAP.

• 2:05:56Speaker 02

  Who was the guy you brought up? I'm trying to think of his name. It was like maybe Professor Raft, something like that. He brought up the Papa New Guinea thing. Do you remember the Papua New Guinea thing?

• 2:06:08Joe Rogan?

  Yes, I do.

• 2:06:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, so on that little island, right? They have the Seminole people, and the Seminole people, basically, they molest young boys. That's what they do, right? Uh, but apparently, the young boys there, they love it because it's a rite of manhood, right? And it's all socially conditioned in. The thing is, with suicidal empathy, that's really funny here to point out to a leftist. From their paradigm, there's nothing wrong with that, actually.

• 2:06:33Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:06:34Speaker 02

  Where's the harm? Right? That's part of the suicidal empathy, of the part of the ideology of suicidal empathy. It's like, for me, from my worldview, it's like, I don't care if you don't think there's harm in that. There is, we're stopping it. Emperor Andrew, done. That's, that's done. No more, that's not allowed. I don't care if it's relativistic or not. It's over.

• 2:06:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, it's crazy to try to defend that culture. That culture is so wild. The, the semen warriors of Papua New Guinea.

• 2:07:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, the semen warriors of Papua New Guinea.

• 2:07:09Joe Rogan?

  For people who don't know, and let's, let's, instead of just talking about this, let's read this from an actual source, so we can explain. Because they call the, the, the children, when I think they're six, the boys have to live with a man that they refer to as the anal father. And this guy, and in order for them to grow strong, they have to consume semen.

• 2:07:35Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:07:35Joe Rogan?

  Both orally and anally. And so they get mouth fucked and ass fucked by this guy, and then they continue that when they grow up.

• 2:07:44Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm, as part of their warrior culture. And what stopped it? You know what's, what ended up finally stopping a lot of that?

• 2:07:52Joe Rogan?

  It's not going on anymore?

• 2:07:52Speaker 02

  It still is, but it, a lot of it was stopped, depending on the tribe you were in, because of Christian missionaries.

• 2:07:59Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 2:08:00Speaker 02

  Because of Christian missionaries. But here's the thing that cracks me up, right? In this whole culturally relativistic nonsense, harm principle stuff. You're Christopher Columbus, and you show up, and if culture's doing that, don't you put them to the sword?

• 2:08:13Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:08:13Speaker 02

  Like, if you see the pyramids and they're cutting people's hearts out, like, we're holding it up to this, to the, to Ra or whatever, you're like, I'm supposed to feel bad that they put you to the sword? Like, it's really hard for me to feel bad about that.

• 2:08:27Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:08:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's really hard for me to be upset about that, but with the Seminole people, same thing, it's like, if you went in there and you just used strong arm force, this is why the Libertarian NAP and stuff like that I disagree with, because like, if you went in there and used strong arm force and just stopped it immediately, so what? So what? How's the world a worse place for this? How is, you know, like, and how is that not ultimately stopping an egregious sinful act? Uh, that you can stop with ease?

• 2:08:54Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:08:54Speaker 02

  Like, why not? Why not do that?

• 2:08:56Joe Rogan?

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• 2:09:39Joe Rogan?

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• 2:10:04Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Believe it or not, the holiday season is here again, and that means you might need to fill some seasonal roles, fast. Maybe you need extra cashiers or stalkers, or maybe something more unique, like a lead elf, or an expert gift wrapper, or a Zamboni driver. Whoever you're looking for, whatever skills you need to power through the rest of the year, ZipRecruiter is one of the best places to start your search. Because you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. And because ZipRecruiter helps sort through thousands of resumes and applications, showing you the most qualified and interesting ones first.

• 2:10:46Joe Rogan?

  There's even an option for candidates to explain why they want the job. Let ZipRecruiter find the right people for your roles, seasonal or otherwise. Try it for free today at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. That's ziprecruiter.com/rogan. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. One of the things, I got really into Aztecs recently, because I wasn't aware that a lot of those temples that they found, you would think that the people that build those incredible pyramids and temples- Well, they found them, didn't they? Yeah, you would think they have to be an incredibly sophisticated society. Well, it turns out they didn't really build them. No, they found them. They found them.

• 2:11:31Joe Rogan?

  And they referred to them as the place where the gods were born. I didn't know that. I was always told that they built these incredible structures, and then the Spaniards came, and then they found them, and... No, they were primitives who found something that was extremely advanced, and then used it for their primitive applications. Not just primitive, but barbaric. When they completed the consecration of the Temple of Tenochtitlan, they killed somewhere between 20,000 on the low end and 80,000 on the high end. They sacrificed 20,000 to 80,000 people within four days. In four days. And this was documented by, God, I forget his name.

• 2:12:16Joe Rogan?

  Something Diaz, he was a Spanish chronicler. Because this is before Cortez came. They, you know, they, they, they started like trying to figure out what's going on over there. And one, one of the things that this guy came back, he said, "This place is fucking crazy." Like, they killed eighty thousand people. And a lot of people have disputed that eighty thousand people, but then they found so many bones. That they're like, okay, it's probably somewhere north of twenty thousand. Which is crazy enough. They sacrificed him in four fucking days.

• 2:12:48Speaker 02

  On morality's relative.

• 2:12:49Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:12:50Speaker 04

  The estimated was four thousand, maybe.

• 2:12:52Joe Rogan?

  What's that, Jim?

• 2:12:52Speaker 04

  As many as four thousand was as max as they got to.

• 2:12:55Joe Rogan?

  What do you mean, bones?

• 2:12:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, the people, the, if, even if they did twenty thousand, I think the number I think I saw was four people, or it was like four people every minute? You would have had to do, or is, it was something that almost impossible to accomplish. They just said the number was probably exaggerated a lot.

• 2:13:11Joe Rogan?

  Right, but they said that, that, no, I think, if you, are you sure?

• 2:13:14Speaker 04

  I looked at something you brought up last week.

• 2:13:15Joe Rogan?

  But I looked it up too, I looked it up yesterday, actually. I looked it up yesterday and they were saying that, that this guy, who was the guy that, um, okay. We can, I can, I know I have it saved, so I can find it in here. Um, so this guy, uh, this Diaz guy.

• 2:13:39Speaker 02

  Who's chronicling this?

• 2:13:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, who chronicled it in the sixteenth century.

• 2:13:42Speaker 02

  How long before Cortez was this?

• 2:13:42Joe Rogan?

  Really, really soon.

• 2:13:44Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:13:44Joe Rogan?

  Like, within a couple of decades, before Cortez. Yeah. Um, oh god, I'm trying to find it. But it-

• 2:13:57Speaker 04

  This does say maybe, I don't know, just the perplexity of things, and Spanish sources claimed eighty thousand, four hundred victims in fourteen eighty-seven.

• 2:14:04Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:14:05Speaker 04

  But modern estimates suggest four thousand to maybe twenty thousand.

• 2:14:08Joe Rogan?

  Right. So twenty, okay. They don't really know, so twenty, eighty thousand might be exaggerated if you think about the number, but just think about twenty thousand people. Killing twenty thousand people by cutting their hearts out and throwing them down the steps of the pyramid in four days. It's fucking crazy. So, if you're the Spanish- The Spaniards, when you come here, you don't feel bad about conquering those fuckers. You're like, what are you guys doing? Or how about when they showed up and they found the Mayans? And they're playing football with human heads.

• 2:14:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:14:36Joe Rogan?

  Now, here's a funny one. They don't want to believe that they played football with human heads. So historians try to say that they didn't play football with human heads. Even though there's artistic depictions of them playing football with human heads. Like, no, that was just symbolic. Well, did they sacrifice humans? Yes, they did, but uh, if they played football with their heads, that would be rude.

• 2:14:57Speaker 02

  It's that, that whole myth of the noble savage.

• 2:14:59Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 2:15:00Speaker 02

  And that whole myth of the noble savage is something which is utilized by the left in order to make the claim that you are an imperialist and an occupier. And a person who, yeah, you have colonized their land. And the thing is, is it's like, if that's what we colonized, why do I care? I ask this question all the time. Why do I care if that's what I colonized? If that's what my ancestors colonized, why should I give a shit about that?

• 2:15:31Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's an amazing book about Texas called Empire of the Summer Moon. Uh, it's all about the Comanche. This entire land used to be before Mexico owned it. By the way, one of the funny thing, this lady said to me, you know, uh, this all used to be Mexico. I'm like, right, but do you know how, for how long? Fifteen years. Like, I've been here for six. Like, you gotta let that go. That's not that long. Fifteen years. And by the way, Mexico was only one.

• 2:15:57Speaker 02

  And we had an Alamo over it, okay?

• 2:15:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and by the way, Mexico was only one when it owned Texas. Mexico started in eighteen twenty.

• 2:16:04Speaker 02

  With its new constitution?

• 2:16:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:16:05Joe Rogan?

  Because then, also, you have the language and the religion of your oppressors that you're trying to say is this noble and incredible culture that you're bringing over to America.

• 2:16:15Speaker 02

  And you're all Catholic?

• 2:16:16Joe Rogan?

  And, yeah, you're all Catholic, you all speak Spanish. They used to have, first of all, the people, the Native American people and the original people and the Aztecs, the Mayans, the Mexicans. It's essentially the same kind of people. A lot of them are, they look the same. It's like, if you look at Sitting Bull.

• 2:16:35Speaker 02

  My wife calls them-

• 2:16:36Joe Rogan?

  He looks like he could be working at a taqueria.

• 2:16:37Speaker 02

  My wife calls them the pygmy people.

• 2:16:39Joe Rogan?

  Oh, they're tiny little people in Maya.

• 2:16:40Speaker 02

  Says the pygmy people.

• 2:16:41Joe Rogan?

  And they didn't have any protein.

• 2:16:42Speaker 02

  They have flat noses and they like, yeah, they look like pygmy people.

• 2:16:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, the, the, the original people of Mexico had, or what the land of Mexico, had over a hundred languages. The Mayans alone had thirty different languages. They're all lost. Like, these languages are all lost. And we're supposed to think it's noble that this amazing culture that have the language and the religion of their oppressors. And they wanna move here with this language. They're colonizing. You're trying to colonize a place, you've been colonized, you're trying to colonize, and here's the thing about colonizing. Everybody, everybody that doesn't live in Africa, somewhere in their ancestry, there was a colonizer.

• 2:17:26Joe Rogan?

  Like, if you go to Minnesota and you see these Somali communities and everyone's speaking Somali, they have Somali businesses. What do you think that is? It's a colony.

• 2:17:37Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 2:17:37Joe Rogan?

  It's just not a big one. It just hasn't taken over the entire country. And when it does, you'll think it's great because they're not white.

• 2:17:43Speaker 02

  Right. Well, they're not colonizers. They're not col- can you see, white-

• 2:17:48Joe Rogan?

  They're immigrants.

• 2:17:48Speaker 02

  They're immigrants, yeah.

• 2:17:49Joe Rogan?

  Right, white people are colonizers.

• 2:17:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, white, white people are the colonizers, everyone else is the immigrant.

• 2:17:53Joe Rogan?

  Nobody feels bad for Swedish chicks with big tits that are moving to America. You don't think that those are colonists.

• 2:17:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, don't care.

• 2:17:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:00Speaker 02

  Don't care, yeah.

• 2:18:01Joe Rogan?

  Nobody cares.

• 2:18:01Speaker 02

  It's only, it's only the coloni- it's only the colonization, oh, man. Well, the thing is funny. Moving back to the, to the myth of the noble savage thing. How weaponized that is, when so much of it isn't true. Like, for instance, you've heard of the two spirits.

• 2:18:16Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:18:16Speaker 02

  Right? That's all, that's all, that's all bullshit, too. The whole two-spirit people, all bullshit. Came from, like, one guy. I don't remember, started with a B, right? Um, who like Bardetche or something like this that they called them, right? And it was one tribe of people who who had some like weird thing that they did. That was it.

• 2:18:36Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's probably gay guys.

• 2:18:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:18:38Joe Rogan?

  It's probably gay guys that like dressing up like women.

• 2:18:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's where the whole two-spirit thing came. And then suddenly it's like, no, the Native Americans had the two spirits. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That is not the case at all. You just made it up because then you could throw it in with your Skittles bullshit.

• 2:18:55Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:18:55Speaker 02

  So that's the.

• 2:18:57Joe Rogan?

  Rainbow.

• 2:18:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, throw it in with the Skittles bullshit.

• 2:19:00Joe Rogan?

  The rainbow, yeah. Well, the thing about this area here before Mexico owned it, it was Comancheria. Uh, it was owned by the Comanche. But you know how they owned it? Cause they killed the fucking Apache. That's that's how.

• 2:19:13Speaker 02

  Colonizers.

• 2:19:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, they were fucking brutal. That's why this Empire of the Summer Moon book is so good. Cause it just shows you how unbelievably barbaric the Comanche were. They were the baddest motherfuckers around. Cause they had figured out horse raising. Um, and by the way, they only got those from Spanish.

• 2:19:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, from Europeans, right?

• 2:19:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, which is crazy because horses actually originated in North America.

• 2:19:36Speaker 02

  I thought they were in Europe and brought here from Europe.

• 2:19:39Joe Rogan?

  No, no, horses originated in North America and then made their way to Asia and then were wiped out in North America.

• 2:19:46Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:19:46Joe Rogan?

  And then reintroduced by the Spanish.

• 2:19:48Speaker 02

  But the but the natives didn't have access to them until Europeans brought you. Okay, that's what I thought.

• 2:19:53Joe Rogan?

  Their culture was so incredibly wild. If you think about it, like you, you know, you're talking about where you think about Europe and Asia. You've got people riding horses and building cities and you've got like agriculture and all these things. And in North America, you basically have Stone Age people. It's really kind of crazy, really kind of fascinating. And then they get horses and the Comanches were the first ones that really figure out horse breeding. They figured out how, you know, how to castrate their horses.

• 2:20:26Speaker 02

  And they became Mongols?

• 2:20:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they basically became Mongols.

• 2:20:28Speaker 02

  They became Mongols once they had access to horses?

• 2:20:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:31Speaker 02

  Well, that was what that was the whole distinction anyway. If you reduce it all between the two civilizations, Europeans had domesticatable animals. Natives didn't.

• 2:20:40Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:20:40Speaker 02

  And because we had domesticatable animals, we had labor. We built these these amazing societies and they didn't.

• 2:20:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:47Speaker 02

  Like the difference that a work ox and a workhorse can make in labor is astronomical.

• 2:20:55Speaker 02

  And so, you know, like, um, that's, that's the real difference. Same thing with disease. Like, ah, you know, the whites brought over all their diseases. Like, well, all those came from animals. Smallpox, all that. Got immunity because we, of animal husbandry. They didn't have any immunity to any of that.

• 2:21:09Joe Rogan?

  Not only that, there's real evidence that syphilis came from Native Americans. And then they brought that, at least some forms of syphilis, and they brought that syphilis back to Europe. And then all the Europeans started going crazy and getting holes in their head and losing all their hair. And that's where the big wigs came from.

• 2:21:24Speaker 02

  And then eating mercury pills to cure themselves.

• 2:21:28Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy what people used to believe.

• 2:21:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:21:31Joe Rogan?

  It's really kind of fascinating, but the point is, even the people that lived in America before the settlers came, those people came from somewhere else. They came from Siberia. You know, everyone's a colonizer. Everyone, all over the world. People, you start in Africa, million years ago, whatever it is, and then people start slowly moving away from the people that were kicking their ass, looking for a better place to live.

• 2:21:54Speaker 02

  But isn't the whole thing from the leftist paradigm just to create, um, or to delegitimize uh, the fact that you can say, "What do you mean? My, my grandpa was born here."

• 2:22:06Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:22:06Speaker 02

  His grandpa was born here, right?

• 2:22:08Joe Rogan?

  No, he was a colonizer.

• 2:22:09Speaker 02

  I'm an American and I have a right to my nation because by birth, I have a birthright to, to the land that I'm on and so do my fellow countrymen. And they, nope, it's an attempt to delegitimize that, right? That's the whole point. Just to delegitimize your claim to your own land.

• 2:22:25Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's what we were talking about earlier with lefts, with leftists, where there's this purity test that no one can ever pass. Cause they'll always keep pushing the boundaries further and further. You're, you're never going to be, you, you, there's, there's no like real Americans. Everyone who's white is a colonizer.

• 2:22:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:22:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's just, it's fucking goofy. And it's just designed to point at someone that someone is the bad person. And this is the reason why life sucks. And also dismiss any of the terrible activities that any of the other people participate in. Because like, oh, they're, they're just oppressed. They're oppressed people, so they're lashing out.

• 2:23:01Speaker 02

  Do you think, like, if you had, if you, again, the bird's eye view, what do you think the left, what do you think their end goal is here?

• 2:23:09Joe Rogan?

  I don't think they know. I don't think their end goal, their end goal is their enemy is the right, and the right is Nazis and fascists. They want to eliminate the Nazis and they want a roll initiative.

• 2:23:19Speaker 02

  Right, roll initiative, right.

• 2:23:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they want, and they, they think-

• 2:23:21Speaker 02

  2D6 damage is happening.

• 2:23:23Joe Rogan?

  And they think that once they get into power, everything will be fine. But it's not going to. And not only that, what would be fascinating is if someone from the left started behaving exactly like the people that are on the right, just did it from a perspective of the left, where you would think, oh, this is okay. And that's what we got during the Obama administration. I sent you this thing, Jamie, a little bit ago, the clip of Obama talking about immigration. And by the way, Obama, and I was mistaken on this. I thought that a lot of the people that Obama deported were people that were turned away at the border. Uh-uh. That was a third.

• 2:24:05Joe Rogan?

  Most of the people out of the, I think it was 3 million over the course of his presidency, that were deported, were fucking deported, like, arrested, deported. A lot of people were killed. Let's put on the headphones so we can listen to the speech, because this, this sounds very MAGA. Listen to this.

• 2:24:24Speaker 06

  There are those in the immigrants' rights community who have argued passionately that we should simply provide those who are illegally with legal status, or at least ignore the laws on the books and put an end to deportation until we have better laws. And often, this argument is framed in moral terms. Why should we punish people who are just trying to earn a living? I recognize the sense of compassion that drives this argument. But I believe such an indiscriminate approach would be both unwise and unfair.

• 2:25:08Speaker 06

  It would suggest to those thinking about coming here illegally that there will be no repercussions for such a decision. And this could lead to a surge in more illegal immigration. And it would also ignore the millions of people around the world who are waiting in line to come here legally.

• 2:25:33Speaker 06

  Ultimately, our nation, like all nations, has the right and obligation to control its borders and set laws for residency and citizenship.

• 2:25:46Speaker 06

  And no matter how decent they are, no matter their reasons, the 11 million who broke these laws should be held accountable.

• 2:25:58Joe Rogan?

  That sounds so Republican. In 2010, that was a Democrat saying that, and everybody was like, "Well, okay."

• 2:26:06Speaker 02

  That's reasonable.

• 2:26:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:07Speaker 02

  And rational.

• 2:26:08Joe Rogan?

  And not only that, Tom Homan, who is the head now-

• 2:26:10Speaker 02

  I know.

• 2:26:11Joe Rogan?

  -was the guy then, and he gave him a fucking medal. Find the clip of Hillary when she's running in 2012, where Hillary is more MAGA than Trump. The way she frames things is so hardcore right-wing, she sounds to the right of Marjorie Taylor Greene. If you've never seen this, have you seen this one?

• 2:26:33Speaker 02

  I think so, but I'm gonna look again.

• 2:26:35Joe Rogan?

  It's wonderful. It's wonderful, because it just shows you how much horseshit- By the way, how good was he? He was such a good spokesperson. Like, the way he talked was so- It was so measured and so noble in the way he phrased his sentences. Like, it was really- It's really interesting how much perception plays a factor in what you think of as like someone being a good president. Because everybody on the left thinks of him as being like the most amazing president ever.

• 2:27:01Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:27:02Joe Rogan?

  Now, this isn't the one.

• 2:27:03Speaker 02

  And he wasn't.

• 2:27:04Speaker 04

  It keeps coming up, though, when I'm looking for it.

• 2:27:05Joe Rogan?

  But this isn't the one. The one is she's giving a speech.

• 2:27:09Speaker 04

  So I thought I was looking for it, but I didn't even type in what I was looking for. I just typed in 2012, and that's the thing that keeps-

• 2:27:14Joe Rogan?

  Maybe it's not 2012. It might have been 2008. Don't, don't- Do, uh, Hillary is more MAGA than, than Trump. See if you can find it. Uh, it's- I know it's on YouTube, but it's this amazing campaign speech. Where- You got it?

• 2:27:31Speaker 04

  Uh, this is 2008.

• 2:27:34Joe Rogan?

  Is it 2008? Yeah, that's it. That's it. Here it is. Listen to this.

• 2:27:40Joe Rogan?

  I love this one! I think we gotta have tough conditions. Tell people to come out of the shadows if they've committed- ...a crime, deport them, no questions asked, they're gone. If they... Cheers, cheers from the Democrats. If they've been working and are law-abiding, we should say, here are the conditions for you staying. You have to pay a stiff fine because you came here illegally, you have to pay back taxes, and you have to try to learn English, and you have to wait in line.

• 2:28:08Speaker 02

  You're gonna learn English, everybody's cheering? Yeah, they love it. They love it. And now...

• 2:28:15Joe Rogan?

  Now you're a Nazi.

• 2:28:16Speaker 02

  Trump's a Nazi.

• 2:28:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:17Speaker 02

  Trump's a Nazi.

• 2:28:18Joe Rogan?

  That is more right-wing than Marjorie Taylor Greene.

• 2:28:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, the Democrats were, I mean, there used to be labor unions that would put pressure on them, right? Uh, this was a big thing, like, there was labor unions, that was what the Democrats had.

• 2:28:33Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:28:34Speaker 02

  And the labor unions did not want, uh, the cheap labor to come in and displace them from having their nice little high-wage jobs. And so, it was all about, we gotta deport the illegals, like, but what did Bernie Sanders say? Mass illegal immigration?

• 2:28:48Joe Rogan?

  Is a right-wing?

• 2:28:48Speaker 02

  Is a right-wing Koch Brothers, uh, conspiracy to bring in cheap labor. And he wasn't wrong.

• 2:28:53Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:28:54Speaker 02

  Okay, he wasn't wrong.

• 2:28:55Joe Rogan?

  He wasn't wrong.

• 2:28:55Speaker 02

  But the thing is, is it's like, what the hell are we fighting over here? Well, we're fighting over the fact that, uh, the, the left is just trying to aggriate itself with power, and they don't really care about what the moral paradigm is, as long as they can get their people in power, they'll use anything as a lichpin issue.

• 2:29:12Joe Rogan?

  That's right, that's right. It's all about power, the whole thing is about power, and that's what people need to truly understand. You're being played, you're being played, you're being played in Minneapolis, you're being played all around the country. It's, it's about power, it's about them getting power. And if you think that once they get complete, if they did, they were successful, they imported millions more to all these swing states, they allow them to vote, they completely rigged the system, now it's only, you think that's gonna be good for everybody? You're out of your fucking mind.

• 2:29:40Speaker 02

  Well, let me ask you this, do you think then, that Christians, knowing this, they know that these are bids for power? When you have Christian nationalism on the rise, and Christians moving towards that, doesn't that seem like it's a rational and reasonable thing to do, for them to want? The mindset of, if we're not in power, they will be in power.

• 2:30:02Joe Rogan?

  It's rational from their perspective, for sure. What people are terrified of is that it would restrict the freedom of religion and that you would impose Christianity on the entire country, you know, and I don't think you should impose any kind of religion on any people. I think people should be free.

• 2:30:17Speaker 02

  I've never seen the, I know that they, there are, of course, the, the people who push that there has to be an established theocracy in order for Christian nationalism to work, but the frameworks that I've seen that have political legitimacy don't seem to push for that at all. They push instead that the idea is that Christians should not be hamstrung from the ideals of, of holding power itself, that that does not make you bad, or evil, or awful, no matter what the left says, Christian, or how Christians are supposed to act, and that when you are in power, you should rule with Christian ethics in mind. That's how you're supposed to pass policy, public, you know, public, uh, public policy of all kinds, is through those ethical means.

• 2:30:59Joe Rogan?

  That certainly sounds like the deal.

• 2:31:00Speaker 02

  Not, hey, it's gonna be a theocracy.

• 2:31:03Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:31:03Speaker 02

  Um, that doesn't seem like it's a, a necessary component.

• 2:31:07Joe Rogan?

  No, well, people are afraid of the concept of a theocracy, and I think that people are afraid of just human nature, and that if people did get into power, that that's what it would become, just like these people are just trying to get into power, that they would use Christianity as, as a vehicle, and they would just use that as an ability to control people. The, the, the real concern is just human nature. Human beings, when they get into any position of power, like to keep it and expand it. It's like, that's what they do. You know, I, I tell jokes, I talk shit, that's what I do. I like to talk shit, I like to tell more jokes.

• 2:31:40Speaker 02

  But there have been good kings, right?

• 2:31:41Joe Rogan?

  There have been, but boy, good luck, good luck finding a benevolent dictator.

• 2:31:47Speaker 02

  Well, not anymore. I don't, I don't think you would have to use it, utilize a dictatorship. But if it's the case that we can point to, like, there were people who had a lot of power, who fundamentally were pretty good.

• 2:31:57Joe Rogan?

  It's possible.

• 2:31:58Speaker 02

  What was it that they're pointing to that made them good? Like, is there something we can point society towards that can make our leaders a bit better, that can make our leadership not hyper-focus on, uh, the nonsense of like, gay marriage and stuff like that, which is completely and totally unimportant at the political level, and shouldn't even be up to the federal government, anyway.

• 2:32:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and I think it's a political tool too, you know, Anna Paulina Luna was on the podcast and she said something that I really didn't consider about certain political problems that exist in this country, that they don't want to solve them.

• 2:32:32Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:32:33Joe Rogan?

  Because they want to use them to finance their campaigns. They want to run on those principles.

• 2:32:38Speaker 02

  It needs to always be there.

• 2:32:39Joe Rogan?

  And it needs to always be there.

• 2:32:40Speaker 02

  It needs to always be there as an issue.

• 2:32:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:42Speaker 02

  And it's like, I think a lot of these can be solved, like, if we were to have politicians en masse and their supporters en masse who follow Christian ethics, I do think a lot of those sub-issues get solved very quickly.

• 2:32:56Joe Rogan?

  If it's true Christianity, if they really do follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, but I think what people are really worried about is like, when people think about Christians, they think about the worst-case scenario of Christianity, which is like evangelicals on television, that just try to get private jets.

• 2:33:12Speaker 02

  But how is electing atheists better, or electing socialists better, or electing any of these people better? It can't be better, right?

• 2:33:18Joe Rogan?

  Right, it's not better, like, if someone's a complete sociopath, it doesn't have any moral framework, like a Gavin Newsom-type guy.

• 2:33:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:33:24Joe Rogan?

  Like, that's even more terrifying.

• 2:33:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:33:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:27Speaker 02

  It's like, if I'm gonna be ruled, can I at least be ruled by people who have my ethics, or?

• 2:33:32Joe Rogan?

  Really, who really believe, and that they're trying to make the world a better place, and they're not just trying to acquire wealth and help their donors acquire more wealth. It's spooky. It's spooky, because people that have power, you know, it scares the shit out of everybody else, and it should, because historically, it's never been good. It's almost always, when people have power, they want more power, and they want to also support the people that helped them acquire that power, and then they want to make sure they got that power locked down. So what's the best way to do that? Well, you restrict people's ability to express themselves, restrict people's ability to travel, you take away as much money as possible, tax them as highly as possible, so they're always in this, like, state of constantly struggling to pay their bills, you keep them

• 2:34:16Joe Rogan?

  conflic- no one's comfortable, ever, and then, you know, have this problem that we have to solve. This is why you have a problem. It's these people.

• 2:34:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, and we're the solution, the causers.

• 2:34:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:27Speaker 02

  The causers are the solution.

• 2:34:29Joe Rogan?

  Do you, you know, one of the things that I, I mean, you engage in so many fucking debates, man, I've watched, I've consumed a lot of your content online, and I always wonder, like, what, does that wear on you after a while?

• 2:34:40Speaker 02

  Constantly. Oh, yeah, all the time. All the time. Well, the thing is, is it-

• 2:34:46Speaker 02

  So, I argue from a worldview. My worldview is Christian ethics. And this is the foundation from which all other arguments are starting and ending. Now, I'm happy to meet people in the middle. A lot of people want to argue in the middle, right? We're gonna get past all the foundational stuff and we're gonna go to the menu, or the middle of the argument, and start there. And I'm kinda happy to do that, to kinda move the, move everything backwards or forward so we can either get to the end or we can get to the beginning and get this figured out. Yes, what wears on me the most about it is, there's a lot of people who I debate with who I know don't believe what they're saying. Hmm. I know. I know for sure, and I, there's moments where I catch myself, where I recognize it,

• 2:35:29Speaker 02

  right then, that moment in the debate, and then I'll hammer them, but it happens all the time where I'm like, "You don't believe that shit." There's no way, and then they'll come back with a, you know, with a re, "I do," and you can just tell it's disingenuous. Yeah. Right? I can't logically show it. There's no way for me to logically show necessarily your motivation, maybe in extreme contexts, but, yeah, man, there's people who are pretty disingenuous about their view, and there's times where it comes out, and the whole audience can see it, and you can see it, and you're just like, "Just why?" Just why are you, like, you don't even believe the shit yourself, and you're propagating it on other people, and you know people will follow it, you know, there's some cash there, you know, there's a, but you're doing it anyway.

• 2:36:14Speaker 02

  You're doing it anyway. Like, I've always thought in my head, you take a guy like Destiny, right? The Coomer Gremlin, as I like to call him, okay? You call him the what? The Coomer Gremlin. What's that mean? Well, like, Coomer, like, he just, all he does is, he basically, he's like a sexual degenerate, right? Is that what a Coomer is? Yeah, well, a Coomer, it's a, it's a little more mild than that. A Coomer's just like, um, kind of, one of the higher values is just kinda having sex with everyone, right? That's around, like, that's what you do. But he's like bisexual, right? Yeah, yeah, he did, yeah, well, he's all kinds of sexual, apparently, but, the thing is, is like, um, I've often thought that there's times when I'm talking to the guy where I'm like, "You don't believe that." Like you just, there's no fucking way you believe that shit. You're making it up, and I know you're making it up, right?

• 2:36:59Speaker 02

  And you'll catch him at times and be like, whatever I gotta say to win the argument.

• 2:37:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:03Speaker 02

  And it's like, yeah, I believe that.

• 2:37:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:06Speaker 02

  I believe that, but it's like, there are people who genuinely believe their view and are excellent debaters, uh, backing their view. And I love those engagements, you know, I live for those engagements. The problem is, is like, it's 5% of them.

• 2:37:22Joe Rogan?

  Right, a lot of people are just trying to win, right?

• 2:37:24Speaker 02

  Well, not just trying to win, but I don't even have a problem with going into a debate with a mindset of winning it. If you're representing a view you believe.

• 2:37:32Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:37:33Speaker 02

  You want to win the engagement, whether it's a conversation or it's a debate, you wanna, you wanna win people over to your side, you wanna even win the person you're talking to over to your side. You know, or maybe sometimes you gotta be brutal and destroy the view completely so people don't move towards it. Both of those are completely, I, I consider them both fine, and I think they're both effective. But the issue that I have ultimately is when you're arguing with somebody and you know they don't believe what they're saying.

• 2:38:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:38:00Speaker 02

  And yeah, that, that wears on you, and, uh, it's not just that, but sometimes you hear the same recycled arguments over and over and over, and I'm like, you don't even have to tell me anymore. I can get to the end before you can. I can tell you exactly where you're gonna go, what you're gonna say, why you're gonna say it, what your justification's gonna be, and I could just get to the end and take care of this right now.

• 2:38:21Joe Rogan?

  It's gotta be, like, how old are you?

• 2:38:23Speaker 02

  Uh, 42.

• 2:38:24Joe Rogan?

  So it's gotta be weird, like, in your late 30s, early 40s, to like, have entered into this world.

• 2:38:31Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, dude.

• 2:38:32Joe Rogan?

  That would be so strange.

• 2:38:33Speaker 02

  It is, it is beyond bizarre.

• 2:38:35Joe Rogan?

  I mean, to be like a normal, working-class guy, doing anything.

• 2:38:40Speaker 02

  Literal nobody, from nowhere, no political experience, nothing. I had no, no entryway, nobody in entertainment, nobody to help me along, nothing.

• 2:38:48Joe Rogan?

  And so was it just seeing how ridiculous people were being during the COVID pandemic that, like, motivated you to be vocal about all this stuff?

• 2:39:00Speaker 02

  It, well, and I had time.

• 2:39:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:02Speaker 02

  You know, time's a big one, but with the, with the layoff, it's like, oh. Well, I don't really have a lot to do and I'm listening to this and it's like now I can, maybe I can engage a little, maybe I can get involved a little bit, you know, not much. I didn't think, I didn't think anything would ever come of it, you know what I mean? I just wanted, I saw my view wasn't being represented very well.

• 2:39:22Joe Rogan?

  But did you have a history of education? Like, were you, were you just reading books? Like, where did you develop these ideas?

• 2:39:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, it wasn't just from books, right? I would listen to long-form, you know, historic podcasts. I would, more than anything, I would be listening to, you know, the medium's changed, but I would listen to what people had to say on a variety of issues. And I would watch the news incessantly and I would be able to pick out what's true and what's not true after a while. Political education comes from a variety of sources. You can't get it from the news and you can't get it from listening to just podcasts and you can't get it by just talking to people. You have to take a sum total of everything, all of it, in order to at least be even moderately politically savvy and understand what's going on in the world. And I realized most people make commentary on things that they have no fucking idea what they're talking about.

• 2:40:16Joe Rogan?

  Right. And so how did you transition to doing this as a job?

• 2:40:21Speaker 02

  Well, it's about two years in to doing this, I was like, look, I sat down with my wife and I said, "I'm not making enough money on my podcast to quit my job, there's no way", you know, "or doing debates to quit my job, there's no way, but I think I could. I actually think I could if I just focused my time on it now. I think I could do it, replace my income with ease."

• 2:40:45Joe Rogan?

  God, that's a big risk, right?

• 2:40:46Speaker 02

  It was a huge risk.

• 2:40:47Joe Rogan?

  Because you have a family.

• 2:40:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, huge risk. And she said, "Okay."

• 2:40:51Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:40:52Speaker 02

  Gave me a kiss and, uh, next day I went in and quit and I was like, "I don't know what the fuck I just did."

• 2:41:01Speaker 02

  You know, it's, um, in some ways it was like... It's like, "Oh, I'm gonna go be a big football star." "Screw you to your boss," you know what I mean? And it's like, it wasn't the same exactly, but it was a big risk. But I just thought, you know, I really can make a go of this. If I can focus my time and energy on this, I think I'll do really well at it.

• 2:41:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think you have a very unique mind for it. And I think you're very good at it. And I also think you have really good points that are very valuable for people to hear. And you're really good at pointing out the logical fallacies and pointing out the ridiculous thought processes that a lot of these people have. And I, you know, that's important, man. It's important for society. I probably don't think of it that way. Probably just enjoy doing it and feel like it's, but it's valuable. Because there's not a lot of people that are good at it.

• 2:41:53Speaker 02

  I get hundreds of DMs weekly from people. And they'll say things, and this, again, I'll never get used to it. But what I do, this is my process. I sit down every morning. I have a cup of coffee. And I just respond to every DM that's sent to me.

• 2:42:10Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:42:11Speaker 02

  So.

• 2:42:12Joe Rogan?

  I used to do that.

• 2:42:13Speaker 02

  For me, yeah, you probably get too many, right?

• 2:42:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's untenable.

• 2:42:17Speaker 02

  I get, I thought so too. I thought, well, if I start getting hundreds every day, there's just no way. But I still do it every morning.

• 2:42:23Joe Rogan?

  How much time does it take you?

• 2:42:24Speaker 02

  Takes me hours, about two hours.

• 2:42:26Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:42:27Speaker 02

  Two hours every morning. So I'll sit down and I'll go through them. And I can't send back long paragraphs, but usually I'll read exactly what they say. Even I'll just say something like, "Thanks for the support." Or, you know, "I really appreciate you saying that. That means a lot," you know, because it does.

• 2:42:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:43Speaker 02

  To me, it's my privilege to have fans. It's not their privilege to be one. And so, when I started to see that, and I started to see, wait, this actually does have a massive effect on people. I also began taking it very much more seriously, because I understood. I can also say things that do the opposite. They could move people towards the opposite of things which are which are good. You know what I mean? Or things which are things which you should be moving towards. And so, you know, I do take it seriously and I understand my job is to represent a worldview. And when I go into a debate, that's exactly what I think. Millions of people are going to see this worldview on display. I'm representing it. I need to do the best I can to represent it well.

• 2:43:27Joe Rogan?

  To be an intelligent, reasonable person who's both well-read and has very good points that you can express about social issues, societal issues is it has it's a massive thing. It's a very important thing that, you know, mainstream media is not doing a good job of filling that role. It just doesn't. You know, there's not a lot of people out there. I mean, Christopher Hitchens is dead. There's not a lot of people out there that are really good at debating against ridiculous people and exposing this. And it's it's so important for people to sit down and see something like that and to

• 2:44:12Joe Rogan?

  recognize like, oh, I've heard people like that talk. I've always wondered like, that doesn't make any sense. Why doesn't someone tell that guy to shut the fuck up? Why doesn't someone and you do that?

• 2:44:22Speaker 02

  That's my job.

• 2:44:23Joe Rogan?

  That's your job.

• 2:44:23Speaker 02

  My job is to go in specifically and say, why don't you shut the fuck up? Because what you're saying, what you're saying is so detrimental to people too.

• 2:44:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:44:32Speaker 02

  And it's nightmare fuel for them. Like, I mean, people hear this stuff, man. Like, I remember this one guy, he DM me and he was like, Andrew, I hate these fucking people. Like, I hate them. He said, I'll listen to them, man. And I just fucking rage in my truck. I'm like, I fucking hate these bastards. He's like, but I can't stop listening. He's like, and his mindset was, I want to know what the enemy's thinking, right? That's his mindset.

• 2:44:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:44:57Speaker 02

  And I think a lot of it is maybe that particular guy's addicted to rage or whatever, whatever you want to frame it. I don't think so. I think the truth is, is that when people are trying to get to the bottom of things, they're trying to be like, why is this happening? Why is this going on? Why do these people think the way they do? And then they start listening to them. Sometimes it's way worse than you thought. It's like, you really believe that shit? You really think that that's the case? You really think that we should be doing anything like this? What is wrong with you?

• 2:45:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:45:25Speaker 02

  And I, I think that for a lot of people, that could be a, a very kind of like jarring experience for them. And I, I think that that's healthy, though. I think that's healthy for you to be kind of jarred out of complacency a little bit.

• 2:45:36Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's certainly healthy for other people to watch it. Cause certain people lean in one direction or the other, and they're not really exactly sure how they feel about things.

• 2:45:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:45:46Joe Rogan?

  And sometimes someone who has bad ideas can be very compelling with these bad ideas.

• 2:45:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:45:54Joe Rogan?

  Because they're not being confronted by someone who's better at it. You know, and I think that's a very important.

• 2:45:58Speaker 02

  Or even as good.

• 2:45:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:46:00Speaker 02

  You know, even, even some, if you just draw a stalemate. It's like, sometimes even that's good enough.

• 2:46:05Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:46:06Speaker 02

  Um, because it's like, you know, maybe I was leaning towards this, or I was leaning towards that, but I'm not sure again. Sometimes that's the best, the best thing, right? Maybe, maybe you shouldn't be too sure on this side or that side.

• 2:46:19Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:46:20Speaker 02

  Um, but you, you know, before you commit, at least maybe I can stop you from making a, a committal to this. Tons of people are like, man, I was on the fence about Christianity. And I was on the fence about Orthodox, I was on the fence about this, I was on the fence about that. This debate did it for me, listening to what these people had to say. This debate did it for me, this debate did it for me. You know, different fans have different highlights that they like, because they're all coming from different walks of life. But they're all very similar in one aspect. Most of my audience are married men, uh, you know, or marriageable age. But, you know, late twenties, uh, through thirties, early forties, that's, that's about the demographic. But mostly like thirty-two to forty-five. And so these people, they have some life experience. They're not dummies.

• 2:47:05Speaker 02

  And they're listening to, and they're like, it's about time someone told that.

• 2:47:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:47:08Speaker 02

  You know, someone, somebody let them know what was going on. Somebody challenged those ideas, somebody buried them. And, um, yeah, that's, that's what I'm effective at doing. And that's what I'm gonna keep doing, because these people are, and the higher, here's what I've learned. The higher I go in confrontation with the higher level people, the dumber they get. Really? The dumber they get. Back in the old Twitch Bloodsport days, when it was fifty live viewers and me against two leftists and we were slugging it out. They were smarter. They were, these were much smarter people than the high-level academic, like it took on these two academics recently at DebateCon. Both of them are Ivy League graduates, right? It was nothing.

• 2:47:51Speaker 02

  I could have, I could have easily destroyed them while enjoying a hot bowl of soup. It would not have, like, it was just, it was, it was inconsequential. Why do you think that is? I, well, I think it's because of, there's a degree of ass kissing and there's a degree of people around you affirming over and over and over how fucking great you are. That's where that egotism comes in, where I'm saying earlier in the podcast, you have to be, make sure you're grounded. Make sure that your ego never takes over, make sure that you don't become the thing that you hate, right? Right. And it's so easy to do. But it's also, I think, I think that as they go, things become more cerebral and academic rather than applicable.

• 2:48:37Speaker 02

  And those kind of old debates that I was doing was people living in it, not external from it. Hmm. And so they, you know, it did, they had real emotion behind it. This wasn't just a thing on a chalkboard. Right. You know, so, uh, and the other thing is, I think a lot of people get where they are in media, through connections and not because of merit. I think a lot of people who are in media or political pundits have no fucking business being there at all. They're dumb as a box of rocks. And they're there because they had connections or they had friends who assisted them in getting in the position they are. Uh, and when they are actually confronted on their views, they fall apart. They totally fall apart. I've seen comedians, comics, who were on the road for years, do better in academic debates than academics.

• 2:49:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:49:23Speaker 02

  And I, well, how is this possible? Well, it's possible because that guy has real world experience. He's probably just as well read as you, had a lot of downtime, right? So he educated himself, but he can do the thing you can't. He can apply it. That guy had, he has a way to apply this knowledge in a, in a framework that works because he's part of the apparatus of the world. And there was nobody there where he was like, he tugged on their, their shirt sleeve and said, "Hey daddy," or "Hey, you know, Uncle Bucks," or whoever, you know, "I want to be on Fox News," and now they have an in, you know? And I think a lot of that in media happens. I think it's very, very, a lot of nepotism there. And a lot of people just really got no business being there at all.

• 2:50:06Joe Rogan?

  Don Lemon.

• 2:50:07Speaker 02

  Don Lemon. Not just Don Lemon, I mean.

• 2:50:09Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:50:10Speaker 02

  There's so many.

• 2:50:11Joe Rogan?

  A lot of them. I just like to pick on him because he's picked on me.

• 2:50:13Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, I don't know what Don Lemon's doing picking on anybody. Like you would, you would, same thing. You would destroy Lemon while enjoying a hot bowl of soup. It would just be nothing because Lemon's biggest problem is he had never had any business. He was, he was a token, literally a token. He was the token gay black guy.

• 2:50:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:50:32Speaker 02

  He was not valued for his great insights and wonderful political takes and the fantastic way in which he broke down the issues of our time. He was valued because he was a gay dude who was black, who was like liberal talking points.

• 2:50:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:50:45Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 2:50:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I agree. Hey, listen, man, I enjoyed this. Let's do it again sometime.

• 2:50:49Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 2:50:50Joe Rogan?

  And tell everybody your show, The Crucible, where they could find it.

• 2:50:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, my show is The Crucible on YouTube. Uh, you can also make sure you go and grab a copy of my wife's book, Occult Feminism. It's fantastic. I brought you a copy, Joe.

• 2:51:01Joe Rogan?

  Cool.

• 2:51:02Speaker 02

  And then, uh, I know you, I know you love feminists. That's why I brought, that's why I brought that copy. And then, uh, you can also catch me, Debate University. It's a, a thing that I've done for years. It, uh, it'll teach you how to debate. You can go check that out as well, debateuniversity.com. I really appreciate the time.

• 2:51:19Joe Rogan?

  Hey, I appreciate you being here, man. I think what you're doing is great. I really do. I enjoy it.

• 2:51:23Speaker 02

  Thanks.

• 2:51:24Joe Rogan?

  All right. Bye, everybody.

• 2:51:39Joe Rogan?

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