Why “No Regrets” Is Bad Advice

We’ve all had moments we wish we could do over: the relationship we stayed in too long, the opportunity we didn’t take, the thing we said that we can’t unsay. Regret can feel awful. So it’s no surprise that “no regrets” has become a popular life motto. But what if regret isn't actually the enemy? In this episode from The Happiness Lab archives, Dr. Laurie explores the surprising science of regret with authors Daniel Pink https://www.danpink.com/ and Liz Fosslien https://www.fosslien.com/. Together, they explain why our biggest regrets can reveal what we value most, help us make better decisions, and even point us toward a happier future. If you've ever found yourself stuck replaying an old mistake, this episode offers a more productive way to look back. Experts Mentioned: Daniel Pink https://www.danpink.com/, non-fiction author Liz Fosslien https://www.fosslien.com/, author, illustrator, and expert in workplace culture and emotions Mollie West Duffy https://molliewestduffy.com/, author, illustrator, and expert in organizational development Augusten Burroughs https://www.augusten.com/, author and memoirist Bronnie Ware https://bronnieware.com/, author and palliative carer Resources Mentioned: “Liz + Mollie https://www.lizandmollie.com/” Big Feelings: How to Be Okay When Things Are Not Okay https://www.amazon.com/Big-Feelings-Okay-When-Things/dp/0593418239, by Liz Fosslien and Mollie West Duffy (2022) Power of Regret: How Looking Backward Moves Us Forward https://www.amazon.com/Power-Regret-Looking-Backward-Forward/dp/0735210659, by Daniel Pink (2022) The Top Five Regrets of the Dying: A Life Transformed by the Dearly Departing https://www.amazon.com/Top-Five-Regrets-Dying-Transformed/dp/140194065X, by Bronnie Ware (2011) “Making Up for Lost Opportunities: The Protective Role of Downward Social Comparisons for Coping With Regrets Across Adulthood https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0146167210393256?casa_token=wr3_gS7VSLIAAAAA:xVdemmc-HfadLq9Q7yuYv6pSVBsjJSd2VYOZcLoqn_FtS34AyKPqCM9b-RcnTaWqr4qZdkBM-gk,” by Isabelle Bauer and Carsten Wrosch (2011) Related Episodes “How to Identify Your Negative Emotions https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/how-to-identify-your-negative-emotions” “How to Be Angry Better https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/how-to-be-angry-better” “Why Nostalgia Ain't So Rosy https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/why-nostalgia-aint-so-rosy” See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 0:04Laurie Santos?

  This episode is brought to you by Choiceology, an original podcast from Charles Schwab, hosted by the amazing Katie Milkman, behavioral scientist and author of the bestselling book How to Change. Choiceology is a show about the psychology and economics behind our decisions. Each episode shares the latest research in behavioral science and dives into themes like the power of self-control, shaping your mindset for success, navigating new beginnings, and why starting over can feel so hard. Katie talks to authors, athletes, Nobel laureates, and everyday people about why we make irrational choices and how to make better choices to help avoid costly mistakes. You'll learn about tools and strategies to help improve your decision making and a ton of other fantastic things

• 0:49Laurie Santos?

  about the mind. Listen and subscribe at schwab.com/podcast or find it wherever you listen to your shows.

• 0:57Speaker 02

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• 1:25Laurie Santos?

  Flu season is here, and it's a great time to take a simple step to help protect yourself and your family. That's why I'm headed to CVS Pharmacy to get my flu shot. And honestly, scheduling my appointment was a breeze. With CVS, you can schedule appointments for up to four family members at once through CVS.com/flu or the CVS Health app, so you can get it done in one go. Did you know that flu shots are free with most insurance plans? Visit your local CVS Pharmacy for your flu shot and get a $5 off $20 coupon with any vaccine. Schedule today at CVS.com/flu. Flu shots are no cost with most insurance. Eligibility varies by patient and insurance plan. Coupon offer not available in select states and is subject to availability.

• 2:10Laurie Santos?

  Restrictions apply. Visit CVS.com/flu for details.

• 2:21Laurie Santos?

  Pushkin.

• 2:31Laurie Santos?

  Hey Happiness Lab listeners. Welcome back to our Happiness Hot Take series, a whole season in which I call out the bad happiness advice that I hear so often on the internet. In today's Happiness Hot Take, we're going back to the Happiness Lab archives to tackle a happiness misconception that's so common, it's even got its own hashtag, hashtag #NoRegrets. The idea that we should stand by the bad decisions we make with confidence, that we should ignore all those pangs of remorse that don't feel so hot. Well, today's throwback Happiness Hot Take is that #NoRegrets is no way to live. And you'll see why in this "In Case You Missed It" episode. I hope you enjoy it.

• 3:16Speaker 03

  I'm going through a breakup right now. And so that's... There's regret in choosing to be together and there's regret in also choosing to be apart.

• 3:26Laurie Santos?

  We all replay dumb things we did in the past.

• 3:29Speaker 04

  I think a lot of my regret stems from like schoolwork. Every school year comes around and I'm like, "This year, I'm gonna do better." And then like, I don't.

• 3:36Laurie Santos?

  Or fret about the things we didn't do.

• 3:38Speaker 04

  I was afraid to come out for a long time to my parents. It was that fear of rejection, regardless of whether they would have really rejected me. I was like hiding myself for two other people and that is something that I regret a lot.

• 3:52Laurie Santos?

  From time to time, regret sets up shop in all our heads and makes us wonder about what we coulda, shoulda, or woulda done differently.

• 3:59Speaker 05

  I've done a lot of mistakes. Like, I spent a lot of money. I paid for a lot of people. I got used by a lot of people. And I did not know my worth.

• 4:08Laurie Santos?

  Our feelings of regret mostly kinda suck. We can experience it as a mild pang, a sort of throbbing emotional toothache. But sometimes the anguish of regret reduces us to tears or saddles us with grief that lasts a lifetime.

• 4:22Speaker 06

  I was in a relationship and it was very toxic. I should've put my foot down way earlier because now it kinda affects me to this day. And it's just like, dang, I could've prevented all of this, these feelings from happening if I just would've left it in the beginning.

• 4:37Laurie Santos?

  And so it's natural to fantasize about a life without this painful emotion, to strive to be without the burn that comes from looking back. I mean, who needs regrets? #NoRegrets.

• 4:48Speaker 07

  I do not believe in regrets or have any regrets in my life. My mistakes are me.

• 4:55Laurie Santos?

  But is the whole no regrets thing really right? I mean, could it be possible that embracing regret is the key to living a better, more authentic, and even a happier life? Our minds are constantly telling us what to do to be happy. But what if our minds are wrong? What if our minds are lying to us, leading us away from what will really make us happy? The good news is that understanding the science of the mind can point us all back in the right direction. You're listening to the Happiness Lab with me, Dr. Laurie Sanchez.

• 5:30Laurie Santos?

  Hey, I'm Malcolm Gladwell. Here's my regret. When I graduated from college, I had this idea that I would spend a year in Jamaica, getting a graduate degree at the University of West Indies. My instinct was that my early twenties were the perfect moment to broaden my horizons, experience a new culture, and take a risk. Instead, I moved to Indiana. Oh, man, I blew it. Life is full of choices, forks in the road where we have to pick one path or the other. Sometimes we make those decisions under pressure, or with incomplete information, or at times when we're not our calmest, most rational selves. And sometimes, once we begin to regret the path we've taken, it's too late to turn around. That's how it was for author and illustrator Liz Fosline.

• 6:14Laurie Santos?

  As the child of European immigrants, Liz spent a lot of her youth traveling back and forth to visit relatives.

• 6:19Speaker 04

  I just have a lot of happy childhood memories there, and it felt like a link to this bigger family that I don't feel that I have in the US.

• 6:26Laurie Santos?

  But with families, it's not always vacations and holiday get togethers. There are sometimes emergencies and bereavements.

• 6:33Speaker 04

  So my grandmother died when I was in my early twenties, and my mom, who rarely shows emotion or asks for much, asked me to go with her to pack up the house.

• 6:44Laurie Santos?

  Liz dropped everything, right? I mean, she wasn't going to let down her mom at the very moment she needed her presence and support the most.

• 6:51Speaker 04

  And I said no.

• 6:54Laurie Santos?

  Liz had just landed a great new consulting job, a position she'd badly wanted and had worked hard to win.

• 7:00Speaker 04

  I was like, I have so much going on at work. I just can't take two weeks off for an international trip. It's just too much for me to take on right now.

• 7:08Laurie Santos?

  And so Liz's mom flew across the Atlantic to deal with the death of her mother all alone. Decades later, that decision still causes Liz tremendous anguish.

• 7:18Speaker 04

  Like even now, I'm like starting to get tears in my eyes because I think of my mom alone on this eight-hour plane ride to go pack up like her childhood and my childhood and our link to our family.

• 7:31Laurie Santos?

  Though painful, regrets like these are a creative spur for Liz. Along with author Mollie West Duffy, she's part of a duo known online as Liz and Molly. They're responsible for a popular Instagram feed of illustrations that show how we can deal with all kinds of painful feelings, the types of things that we too often keep to ourselves.

• 7:49Speaker 04

  There's just so much, especially when we talk about big feelings, that all of us are experiencing on a daily basis that we don't share with people.

• 7:56Laurie Santos?

  I'm a huge fan of Liz and Molly's work. I share their simple yet powerful cartoons with my students all the time. They're not just poignant, clever, and funny. They also include lots of science-backed tips for dealing with those big feelings. So you can imagine my excitement when I heard that the duo were also putting out a new book. It's called Big Feelings: How to Be OK When Things Are Not OK. The book gives advice for navigating seven of our most painful negative emotions, the usual emotional culprits, things like sadness, anger, and even burnout. But there's also one that doesn't get as much attention. You guessed it, regret.

• 8:32Speaker 04

  Research shows that it's one of the most common emotions that people feel. I think it's after love or something like that.

• 8:39Laurie Santos?

  Some studies estimate that over 90% of people report having severe regret about some decision they've made in their lives. Over 90% of people. That's basically everyone. And yet, one of the misconceptions about regret is that it's actually even possible for us to live that hashtag no regrets life.

• 8:56Speaker 04

  It's just a completely inaccurate view of the world.

• 8:59Laurie Santos?

  There is no life in which you will have no regrets. A second misconception goes something like this. Okay, so maybe I can't have a perfectly hashtag no regrets existence, but I'd definitely be able to have a hashtag mostly no regrets life. If only I could get everything I want. We assume that if we had the perfect job and a swanky house and an amazing partner, we'd never experience that painful twinge of what if. But this too is a spot where our minds are lying to us. And part of that is because you can only choose one life. Even if your current life path is mostly awesome, there's probably something great out there in the universe that you're not going to get a chance to experience. Another fork in the road you could have chosen, but didn't. And sometimes we can't help but regret not taking it.

• 9:44Laurie Santos?

  And we also have a tendency to put on rose colored glasses when we consider that alternate path, especially in moments when our current reality is a little harder. I feel like we have a lot to learn about regret. So I decided to call in an expert.

• 9:59Speaker 02

  My name is Daniel Pink. I'm the author of The Power of Regret: How Looking Backward Moves Us Forward.

• 10:04Laurie Santos?

  Daniel developed what he calls the World Regret Survey, which collected the experiences of tens of thousands of people from more than 100 countries. It's one of the largest databases of regrets ever. With all that data to draw on, I was hoping that Daniel could give us a bit of a crash course on regret, starting with a definition.

• 10:22Speaker 02

  I think one way to start is that a regret is an emotion, and it's an emotion that makes us feel bad. And it's emotion that arises from, I think, some really fascinating and interesting powers of our brain.

• 10:34Laurie Santos?

  Regret requires a few complicated and possibly unique cognitive abilities. The first of these is the ability to accept blame. Unlike other negative emotions, like, say, disappointment, regret requires agency. We can only regret stuff that we caused.

• 10:50Speaker 02

  You experience regret because it's your fault.

• 10:54Laurie Santos?

  Regret also requires the capacity to time travel. Regret forces us to hop in a mental time machine and travel back to some remembered event of the past. And once we get there, our brains engage in a third impressive cognitive feat, what Daniel calls fabulism.

• 11:09Speaker 02

  We imagine making a different decision than we actually made. And then what's even more crazy is that we negate that experience. We get back in our time machine. We arrive back in the present and we now see a present that is reconfigured because of this decision that we've undone in the past.

• 11:27Laurie Santos?

  And that's the final cognitive superpower we engage in when feeling regret. What's known as counterfactual thinking. We create a new, completely imaginary timeline that runs counter to the facts.

• 11:39Speaker 02

  And there are two kinds of counterfactual thinking. One of them is known as a downward counterfactual. So that is, we imagine how things could have been worse.

• 11:48Laurie Santos?

  Downward counterfactuals often involve the phrase, "Well, at least." So let's say you miss your morning flight because you spent too long getting ready. You might engage in a downward counterfactual and say things like, "Well, at least there was a later flight." Or, "Well, at least I didn't miss my connection." Downward counterfactuals help us remember that it could have been worse. They usually make us feel better. But less hopefully, we also engage in upward counterfactuals.

• 12:15Speaker 02

  Which is, "God, you imagine things could have been better."

• 12:18Laurie Santos?

  Upward counterfactuals make us say, "If only." "If only I had spent a year in Jamaica." "If only I had helped my mom when she needed me." "If only I had done this thing or that thing differently, then everything now would be so much better." I kind of regret going to college. I might have like ended up, I don't know, working on a flower farm. Upward counterfactuals convince us that we've totally screwed things up. They kind of make us feel like crap. And sadly, they also dominate our thoughts.

• 12:47Speaker 04

  Because I'm a lawyer. But it would have been nice to find something that I'm passionate about. An actress, a science teacher, or I'm going to be a doctor because I love health, nutrition, that kind of stuff.

• 13:00Laurie Santos?

  Researchers have looked at how often we use each of these two kinds of counterfactuals. Those painful if only counterfactuals, they beat out the nicer feeling of at least counterfactuals more than 80% of the time.

• 13:11Speaker 02

  We are biased, in this case, toward the negative. We're biased toward the upward counterfactual, toward the if only's. I think the interesting thing here, as we try to sort out the puzzle, is, you know, why would we do that? Why would we be prone to do something that makes us feel worse? And so...

• 13:29Laurie Santos?

  There must be something about this that confers a benefit. There must be something about this that is adaptive. So becoming happier must involve banishing those negative if onlys, right? Well, Daniel argues that wouldn't be such a smart thing to do. I'm all for positivity, or I'm all for positive emotions. But here's the thing, I don't want to have only positive emotions because negative emotions serve a function. I think that no regrets, the philosophy of no regrets, that you should never look backward, you should always look forward, never be negative, always be positive, is a profoundly bad idea. I think it is an unhealthy recipe for living.

• 14:09Laurie Santos?

  I think what we have to do is actually use our regrets as information, as signal, as data, not ignore them, not wallow in them, but use them to help clarify what we value and instruct us on how to live better. When we get back from the break, we'll explore just how we can use these if onlys to live a better life. We'll see that regret can be a critical signpost for the version of ourselves that we most want to be. And we'll see that if we better understand that ideal self, we can start to use this painful emotion to live a healthier, happier, and more authentic life. The Happiness Lab will be right back.

• 14:50Laurie Santos?

  You know those pieces in your closet that you find yourself reaching for over and over again? The sweater that somehow works with everything? The jeans you know will always fit just right? Those are the pieces that earn a permanent place in your wardrobe. And that's exactly what Quince does so well. I recently pulled my fall clothes out of storage, and I was so excited to see my black Mongolian cashmere full zip hoodie that I got from Quince. It's soft and warm and perfect for cozy nights. I love it so much that I now have a gray one in my quince.com cart right now. And when I buy that new gray hoodie, I know I'll feel good about my choice because everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. And as the weather gets colder, Quince has everything you need to round out your wardrobe,

• 15:33Laurie Santos?

  from warm, reasonably sourced down jackets and cozy cashmere scarves and gloves to beautiful 14 karat gold Jewelry. Find the fall pieces you'll reach for most at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns, now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was the Happiness Lab. It's the best way to support the show. I just moved into my new sabbatical house, and I've been trying to make it feel more me. The living room is already furnished with a boho vibe, but it lacked the perfect rug to bring the room together. That's why I turned to Wayfair. I bought Wayfair's washable, distressed, vintage floral oriental rug in blue.

• 16:18Laurie Santos?

  That rug is so soft and cozy, and I was able to find it in a vintage-looking blue color that perfectly matched the rest of the items in the space. And with Wayfair, you can get rooms that look great at every price point. I'm only staying in my sabbatical place for a short time, so I didn't want to spend a lot on a new rug. But with Wayfair, you can shop thousands of products across every style and budget, whether you're simply replacing an appliance or transforming your home from top to bottom for the holiday season. And now that the weather's getting colder, I gotta say that I'm especially loving the coziness of my new rug. Find pieces made for real life and get even more value with Wayfair Rewards. Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home.

• 17:03Laurie Santos?

  That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R dot com.

• 17:08Laurie Santos?

  This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. There are plenty of reasons we put off getting support, and for a lot of people, cost is one of them. With BetterHelp, insurance options may now be available nationwide, with an average copay for eligible members of just $23 per session. And while we're reconsidering old assumptions, maybe there are a few others worth questioning, too. Women these days inherit a lot of unwritten rules. Be ambitious, but not too ambitious. Be there for everyone, but still make time for yourself. Have it all together, but don't look like you're trying too hard. I've been trying to unwrit the unwritten rule that I'm never allowed to say no, that it makes me a bad person. I've been trying to give myself the grace that I would give other people and to remember that no one

• 17:53Laurie Santos?

  has the bandwidth to do everything all the time. If you're trying to work through your own unwritten rules, therapy may be of help. If you've been waiting to start therapy, BetterHelp works with more than 125 health plan networks, and eligible members have an average copay of just $23 per session with insurance. Don't have insurance or live outside the US? You can still get 10% off your first month. Visit betterhelp.com/Laurie to explore your payment options. That's better, H E L P, dot com slash Laurie.

• 18:28Speaker 04

  I'm Maya Shankar, host of A Slight Change of Plans. When I was around 11 years old at summer music camp, I had the biggest crush on another violinist, Shunsuke Sato. He was cute, a total violin prodigy, and was really funny, too. I thought maybe he liked me as well, but I could never tell for sure. One day, a mutual friend of ours just asked me point blank, "Hey, do you like Shunsuke? I think he might like you." Shunsuke was in earshot, and I remember seeing him lightly smile in response to her question. But even with that affirmation, I was too embarrassed and said, "No." He could have been my summer boyfriend, but I was too much of a wimp. And it took me until I was 19 to actually have my first boyfriend.

• 19:12Speaker 04

  How different things could have been for me.

• 19:15Laurie Santos?

  Regrets can feel so troubling that we'd move mountains to change things.

• 19:19Speaker 04

  Like, I would give a lot, a lot, a lot of money to go back and make a different decision.

• 19:24Laurie Santos?

  Liz Foseline still hurts when she reflects on her grandmother's death and not being there for her grieving mother. But Liz argues that experiencing the painful big feelings that come with regret have helped her to learn what really matters in life.

• 19:36Speaker 04

  Remembering how painful it was. It wasn't just regret. It was pain, it was shame, it was guilt. It was all these sort of really, really thorny, difficult feelings that were welling inside me that really, really clarified the decisions I wanted to make going forward.

• 19:52Laurie Santos?

  Liz tackled this idea in a recent Liz and Molly comic on Instagram. In it, a tiny, dejected-looking figure looks regretfully back into the past. But another similar figure turns to the future and asks, "What if I do things differently from now on?" Liz and Molly then quote the author, Augustine Burrows. "To live in regret and change nothing else in your life is to miss the entire point." And the science shows that this is one of the big benefits of being a creature that can feel regret. Our regrets can help us to better understand the kind of people we want to be, even if we're not currently living up to those standards. Just as our brains are good at simulating imaginary counterfactual situations, say, asking out that person we liked but never spoke to,

• 20:36Laurie Santos?

  or going to graduate school in the Caribbean rather than working in Indiana, so too can our brains simulate imaginary counterfactual versions of ourselves. When I'm having a tough day as a professor, I might simulate a version of Laurie who's an astronaut, or a veterinarian, or a beach bum. Perhaps more usefully, I could also simulate a better version of Laurie who doesn't skip her workouts, who never spends too much time on social media, and who always gets enough sleep. Research has found that paying attention to the different kinds of better selves we simulate can help us to make choices that could ultimately make us happier. Back in the 1980s, Columbia University psychologist Tori Higgins proposed an idea he called self-discrepancy theory. It started from the observation that people tend to compare their real, actual self

• 21:21Laurie Santos?

  to two very different kinds of model selves. The first is what he called the ideal self. Your ideal self is the truest, most authentic version of you. Ideal you ignores what society says and fearlessly shoots for all your hopes, dreams, and aspirations. Liz knew exactly what her ideal self wanted.

• 21:39Speaker 04

  So this is the career that makes you come alive versus the career that you feel pressured to pursue.

• 21:46Laurie Santos?

  But we also fantasize about a second counterfactual self: the ought self. The ought self is all about duty, obligation, and doing what's expected of you.

• 21:56Speaker 04

  So for me, that is being a doctor. My parents are both immigrants, academics. It was very much like, doctor, banker, lawyer, that is success.

• 22:06Laurie Santos?

  My own aught self is a me that never takes a break. That Laurie is a perfectionist who has a perfect body and great clothes and a flawlessly clean house. But ideal Laurie has a completely different set of aspirations. Ideal Laurie does want to do good work in the world, but she also wants to take care of herself and live her dreams.

• 22:25Speaker 04

  And the aught self and the ideal self sometimes require you to pick two very different paths.

• 22:32Laurie Santos?

  When Liz's grandmother died far away across the ocean, ideal Liz and aught Liz clashed about what to do next. Liz's ideal self would have hands down risked upsetting her new bosses to help her mom in that moment of grief.

• 22:44Speaker 04

  The ideal self is someone who shows up for the people that I care about in the moments that really matter.

• 22:49Laurie Santos?

  But her aught self won out. Rather than following her heart and going to the airport, she headed to the office.

• 22:56Speaker 04

  I really felt like I could not fail, especially early on in this job. Otherwise, it would ruin my career forever. And looking back now, I totally understand that that was ridiculous catastrophic thinking. And there are many examples of this in my early twenties. Like, I cannot believe some of the things I did.

• 23:13Laurie Santos?

  Like the time Liz passed out and spent the night in the hospital. The next morning, her aught self convinced her that she needed to go to work anyway.

• 23:21Speaker 04

  And I looked terrible. And my boss asked what had happened. And I briefly mentioned that I had been in the ER. And he just stared at me and was like, you need to go home. It's not okay that you are here. But again, it was a similar compulsion of like, I have to be present. I have to be showing up.

• 23:38Laurie Santos?

  So given that we have these two different imaginary versions of ourselves on our shoulders, each screaming different things, which one should we listen to? Well, Tori Higgins found that ignoring either of these voices doesn't feel great in the short term. If Liz had flown to Europe, she'd probably have worried about her job as soon as the airplane left the tarmac. But research shows that when it comes to long-term regrets, the severe kind that give us anguish years after the fact, they're much more likely to stem from ignoring the person we ideally want to be.

• 24:07Speaker 04

  Pursue the path that brings you closer to your ideal self, you tend to be happier. If confronted with, hey, this is the job that really sings to my soul versus this is the job that everyone has expected me to take, but the thought of taking it actually fills me with a deep existential dread. You should go with the ideal self job.

• 24:28Laurie Santos?

  It may sound grim, but people at the very end of life bear out this observation. Palliative nurse Bronnie Ware had years of experience living with patients in their final weeks, and she repeatedly witnessed the pain and anguish of their regrets. "I wouldn't wish it on anyone," she once said. Mood by their stories and hopeful to share the wisdom she'd gained from her patients, she wrote a bestselling book called The Top Five Regrets of the Dying. All of the top five regrets Ware shares in her book involve disappointing the ideal self rather than the ought self. The dying regret not being emotionally available to their friends and loved ones, being too devoted to proving themselves at work, and caring too much about what other people think. Social psychologists Tom Gilovich and Shai Davidi did a more empirically based survey of long-term regrets.

• 25:12Laurie Santos?

  They studied a very different cohort of people, not the terminally ill, but everyone, from college students to residents in an old age home. People's regrets about not living up to the person they ideally wanted to be far outnumbered their regrets about not living up to what they ought to do to please bosses, neighbors, or the wider society. Findings like these have shaped how Liz now listens to her two different counterfactual selves.

• 25:35Speaker 04

  One, I'm faced with something, and one, I have this little voice within me that says like, "Well, but work is really busy this week." I'm like, "No, remember the pain that you're trying to avoid in the future. Just put that sort of perfectionist ought self to the side and go show up, because that's what you're going to remember in 10 years." I truly do not know what I was doing at work that week. I can tell you nothing about the project I was working on, about how it turned out. It just wasn't as important in the long run.

• 26:04Laurie Santos?

  Liz is now convinced that past regrets are great learning points. That recent Liz and Molly cartoon I mentioned also included an important quote. "Regrets can be burned as fuel." But regrets burn hot, and we can only become better people if we're committed to directly embracing our regrets and the pain they cause.

• 26:23Speaker 02

  Because I think when we do that, there's a lot of evidence that it is a powerfully transformative emotion.

• 26:29Laurie Santos?

  The Happiness Lab. We'll be right back.

• 26:37Laurie Santos?

  You know those pieces in your closet that you find yourself reaching for over and over again? The sweater that somehow works with everything? The jeans you know will always fit just right? Those are the pieces that earn a permanent place in your wardrobe. And that's exactly what Quince does so well. I recently pulled my fall clothes out of storage, and I was so excited to see my black Mongolian cashmere full zip hoodie that I got from Quince. It's soft and warm and perfect for cozy nights. I love it so much that I now have a gray one in my quince.com cart right now. And when I buy that new gray hoodie, I know I'll feel good about my choice, because everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. And as the weather gets colder, Quince has everything you need to round out your wardrobe,

• 27:20Laurie Santos?

  from warm, reasonably sourced down jackets and cozy cashmere scarves and gloves, to beautiful 14 karat gold jewelry. Find the fall pieces you'll reach for most at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns, now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was the Happiness Lab. It's the best way to support the show. If you're a fan of the show, you may remember that I have a slightly strange living situation this year. I'm on sabbatical, living in Boston, and thus staying in my own guest room whenever I return to my home in New Haven, Connecticut. Well, three months in, I'm happy to report that upgrading my old guest room mattress

• 28:05Laurie Santos?

  has turned out to be a really, really good investment in my sleep. I got the Helix Midnight Luxe with the Glacio cooling cover, and I absolutely adore it. I love that it gives my back the support I need while helping me stay cool at night. As someone who studies happiness, I know that sleep isn't just about feeling rested. It affects how we feel and function all day long. Helix has been tested and reviewed by experts like Forbes and Wired. And what I really like about Helix is that they don't take a one-size-fits-all approach. They have over 20 mattress models, and you can take their two-minute sleep quiz to find the one that fits your needs. So if your old mattress isn't doing you any Favors, consider this your sign to upgrade. Helix offers free shipping in the U.S.

• 28:49Laurie Santos?

  Plus, they're happy with Helix Guarantee, so you can rest easy about your decision, too. Go to helixsleep.com/happiness for 20% off sitewide. That's helixsleep.com/happiness for 20% off sitewide. Helixsleep.com/happiness. A business gift is never just a gift. It's a thank you, a milestone, a moment of appreciation. It's a message about how much someone matters and what your brand stands for. At 4imprint, you'll find thousands of customizable options, like premium apparel, branded drinkware, tech totes, and more, each chosen not just for function, but for meaning. You can tailor every detail, your logo, your message, your presentation,

• 29:34Laurie Santos?

  so your gift feels personal and on-brand. And with expert support, dependable service, and thousands without a setup fee, creating something thoughtful doesn't mean making it complicated. Every order is backed by 4imprint's 360-degree guarantee, so you can be 4imprint certain it'll arrive exactly as expected, on time, and with the care your brand deserves. Because when the moment matters, the right gift speaks volumes, and the right partner makes it easy. Explore gifting with purpose and certainty at 4imprint.com. 4imprint, for certain. Flu season is here, and with everything we have going on, it's easy to put getting a flu shot on the back burner.

• 30:17Laurie Santos?

  But taking a few minutes now can help protect you and your family. That's why I'm headed to CVS Pharmacy to get my flu shot. And honestly, I was really impressed by how easy it was to schedule. With CVS, you can schedule appointments for up to four family members at once, so you can take care of everyone in one go. Just visit CVS.com/flu or use the CVS Health app to find an appointment that works for you. So make protecting yourself this flu season one less thing to worry about. Did you know that flu shots are free with most insurance plans? Visit your local CVS Pharmacy for your flu shot and get a $5 off 20%. $20 coupon with any vaccine. Schedule today at CVS.com/flu. Flu shots are no cost with most insurance.

• 31:02Laurie Santos?

  Eligibility varies by patient and insurance plan. Coupon offer not available in select states and is subject to availability. Restrictions apply. Visit CVS.com/flu for details.

• 31:16Speaker 02

  I'm Jacob Goldstein. I host a podcast called What's Your Problem? And when I was in my twenties, I regretted pretty much everything all the time. It got to the point where anytime I had to make a big decision, I would be paralyzed by the fear that I would regret whatever choice I made. It was like pre-regret, pre-gret. Eventually, I mostly got past it. I came to trust myself more, feel better about my decisions. Regret, thankfully, is no longer a big part of my life. But I guess I do still regret a little that I spent so many years of my life living in fear of regret.

• 31:53Speaker 04

  One of the interesting things about regret is that people want the instruction that comes from regret. They just don't want the bad feeling. And that's not the offer that's on the table here.

• 32:05Laurie Santos?

  If we can tough out the discomfort, author Daniel Pink thinks we can learn valuable lessons from our regrets.

• 32:11Speaker 04

  If we get past this kind of fog machine that we should never have regrets, that we should always be positive, we can look at this emotion and say, it's telling us something. It's teaching us something. And if we actually think about our regrets differently, we can enlist them to lead a better, more fulfilling, more satisfying life.

• 32:31Laurie Santos?

  Daniel's extensive survey of regrets around the world taught him that the only way to learn from this painful emotion is to let ourselves feel it. As much as we'd like to, we can't fast forward through the painful parts of our regrets.

• 32:42Speaker 04

  The reason they make us do better is because they make us feel worse.

• 32:46Laurie Santos?

  And once you experience the pain, you can commit to doing better. But how? Daniel says the first step is determining the specific category of regret you're dealing with.

• 32:57Speaker 04

  So there's an interesting distinction in the architecture of regret, which is the distinction between action regrets and inaction regrets.

• 33:03Speaker 02

  Regrets about what we did and regrets about what we didn't do. So let's take action regrets, regrets about what I did. Those are things that you can undo.

• 33:10Laurie Santos?

  When I think of such situations, I'm reminded of the advice of life coach Valerie Burton, who I spoke to for a previous episode about dealing with guilt. Valerie said that the first steps to dealing with our action regrets are to admit what we've done, assess the damage done, apologize for our actions, and then atone as best we can. So if you regret saying something mean to a friend, you should apologize. If you carelessly broke your work buddy's favorite mug, you should buy them a new one. Undoing doesn't mean erasing what you did, but you could acknowledge your actions and make amends for the damage, at least a bit. But if the regret you're experiencing stems from an inaction, something you didn't do yet, then the solution is also clear. If possible, you should do the thing you haven't gotten around to doing yet.

• 33:54Laurie Santos?

  As the old saying goes, "The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, but the second best time is now." Daniel's survey results demonstrated the importance of fixing inactions as soon as possible. One of the biggest domains in which Daniel observed the painful consequences of inaction regrets was in our social relationships.

• 34:13Speaker 02

  Which are, if only I'd reached out. And the typical pattern was a relationship comes apart, usually in very, very undramatic ways. It's like there's not yelling and screaming and it was just like things drift apart. Your relationship drifts apart. And then what happens is that one person wants to reach out and they say, "Oh, it's going to be really awkward if I reach out and the other side's not going to care." So they don't. Then they wait a few more years and they say, "Oh, now it's going to be even more awkward and they're going to care even less." So they don't. And so people are making, I think, a pretty profound misjudgment. They say, "It's going to be awkward." And it turns out to be way less awkward than they think. And they say, "The other side's not going to care." And the other side almost always cares.

• 34:56Speaker 02

  If you are at a juncture where you're wondering,

• 35:01Laurie Santos?

  Should I reach out or should I not reach out? To my mind, being at that juncture has answered the question. Always reach out. I think it's very clear when we look prospectively that if you don't reach out, you're going to regret it. And I have too many stories of people who didn't reach out, and then it was too late because somebody passed away. But you might be left asking, how can we deal with regrets that we can't fix? Those hurts that we caused to people who are no longer with us? Or some stranger we hurt? Or mistakes that we can't undo? Or cases where enough time has passed that we simply can't complete the actions we failed to do before? Daniel argues that situations like these require changes in how we think. We first need to normalize the fact that we messed up

• 35:45Laurie Santos?

  and commit to not beating ourselves up over it. One of the most important things you can do when you screw up is treat yourself with self-compassion. Treat yourself with kindness rather than contempt. Recognize that your mistakes are part of the human condition. And when engaging in this more compassionate self-talk, we can also use the power of specific words to better see the lessons that come from our mistakes. Like, for example, harnessing that less painful counterfactual phrase that allows us to feel better. At least. As we talked about earlier, you can at least them. You can find the silver lining. You can do that downward counterfactual. Liz Fosslien agrees that using new words in our self-talk can be a valuable way to learn about possible silver linings.

• 36:27Speaker 04

  One thing that I've found really valuable is replacing the phrase "should have" with "what if." So in my case, like, I should have gone with my mom and gotten on that plane. Changing it and saying like, well, what if the next time I do get on the plane? It's sort of a quick phrasing shift that allows us to both give ourselves grace, but then shift more into this mindset of what could the future look like if I learned from this past experience?

• 36:56Laurie Santos?

  Another effective, although somewhat counterintuitive, strategy involves sharing your regrets more broadly. We assume that talking about our mistakes will feel shameful or embarrassing. But the science shows that admitting your regrets, either to a close confidant or to the pages of a written journal, can make you feel better. In one study, researchers had subjects talk about their regrets on a tape recorder for 15 minutes a day. After four weeks, participants reported higher levels of life satisfaction and better overall mental well-being. Daniel argues that this works because talking about our regrets can make them more concrete. And that makes them less fearsome, and it also begins the sense-making process. And that sense-making process is the final step of harnessing our regrets.

• 37:38Laurie Santos?

  We're trying to extract a lesson from what we did badly in the past, so we can do better in the future. I don't think it's good enough to simply say, "Oh, I'm going to treat myself with kindness, I'm going to write about it or disclose it." I think you have to go to the next step and say, "What did I learn from this? What is the lesson that I've derived from this, and how do I apply it going forward?" This sense-making process is one of the reasons Liz is also keen to share the power of regret. By courageously processing her own regrets about not showing up when her mother needed her, she's been able to better live up to the person she ideally wants to be.

• 38:11Speaker 04

  And so, I don't even want to say I'm grateful, because that's not quite true. But I do, I try every time I'm confronted with a similar situation, to make the choice that I know is going to lead to less long-run pain, and that actually aligns more with my values.

• 38:29Laurie Santos?

  Unfortunately, Liz had a chance to test that commitment to her new ideal self when her father was rushed to the hospital.

• 38:36Speaker 04

  And at the time, we didn't, you know, I, we really didn't know if he was going to make it, so it was very scary.

• 38:41Laurie Santos?

  Liz was living in San Francisco at the time. She knew that flying halfway across the country to her father's hospital in Chicago at short notice and in the middle of the COVID-19 pandemic would be a logistical nightmare. And this time, even her mother was telling her not to bother making the trek.

• 38:57Speaker 04

  And I was just like, "Absolutely not. I'm coming. Just, you know, like, pick me up at the airport, or I'll take a lift, or whatever it is."

• 39:05Laurie Santos?

  By fully processing her previous experience, Liz was sure that no matter how difficult that trip to Chicago was, the anguish of not going would be worse.

• 39:14Speaker 04

  I do not want to experience that pain again, and I have learned my lesson, and I will never, ever make that decision.

• 39:22Laurie Santos?

  And so Liz made the trek, and quickly enjoyed the benefits that come from being the person you ideally want to be.

• 39:28Speaker 04

  My dad, luckily, ended up being sort of overall okay. And my mom, a couple days later, was just like, "I'm so glad you're here." And I said, "I am too." And I absolutely have no regrets around that.

• 39:42Laurie Santos?

  We often think that in order to be happy, we need to shield ourself from painful emotions. And there's no doubt about it, feeling regret is painful. It's one of the suckiest emotions around. But as Daniel Pink put it in his book, "It's time you started thinking of your regrets not as emotional threats, but as opportunities." If there's some past action that makes you cringe, fix it. Didn't take on that big challenge your ideal self was pushing for? Do it now. And if you can't go back and change the past, find ways to see those pangs of remorse in a new light as a powerful way for your ideal self to nudge you in the right direction. And if your ideal self wants to avoid at least one future podcast regret, then I'd encourage you to come back soon for the next episode of The Happiness Lab

• 40:26Laurie Santos?

  with me, Dr. Laurie Santos.

• 40:36Laurie Santos?

  The Happiness Lab is co-written and produced by Ryan Dilly, Emily Anne Vaughn, and Courtney Guarino. Joseph Fridman checked our facts. Our original music was composed by Zachary Silver with additional scoring, mixing, and mastering by Evan Viola. Thanks to everyone who shared their regret stories for this episode. Special thanks to Mia Labelle, Heather Fain, John Schnars, Carly Migliore, Christina Sullivan, Maggie Taylor, Eric Sandler, Nicole Morano, Royston Preserve, Jacob Weisberg, and my agent, Ben Davis. The Happiness Lab is brought to you by Pushkin Industries and me, Dr. Laurie Santos. To find more Pushkin podcasts, listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

• 41:26Laurie Santos?

  The Happiness Lab is proudly sponsored by Amica Insurance. You know what they say. If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. So go with Amica and get coverage from a mutual insurer that's built for their customers. One that looks after what's important to you together. Auto, home, life, and more. Amica helps you protect what matters most. Visit amica.com and get a quote today.

• 41:53Laurie Santos?

  With ChatGPT, you can do more than get answers. You can get things done. Whether you're leading a big project, planning an elaborate trip, or trying to balance work and life, ChatGPT can help. Give it a goal, plus things like files, notes, or project plans. Develop a trip itinerary with daily updates or create a prioritized schedule. So you can spend less energy sorting out the details and more on bringing your biggest ideas to life. Get started at chatgpt.com. This is Stugatz from Stugatz and Company Live. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more.

• 42:25Speaker 05

  That's Toyota affordability. And it all starts with a great deal on an all-wheel-drive Camry, Corolla Cross, or a Corolla Sedan. With the latest features and tech, or test drive a spacious Grand Highlander or adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid models available, you can enjoy longer trips without all the stops. While Toyota's legendary resale value means you can get more at trade-in. Get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for deals and details. Toyota, let's go places. Breathe in and reset with Lincoln Rejuvenate. An available multi-sensory feature in the 2027 Lincoln Navigator SUV.

• 43:07Speaker 05

  Experience the luxurious massage, visuals, and sense to help you relax in the driver's seat. It's your time for a reset. Visit lincoln.com to learn more. Lincoln Rejuvenate does not operate unless the vehicle is in park, when the vehicle is off, or if any doors open. Do not use the feature in a closed garage or in other enclosed areas. See owner's manual for important operating instructions. Lincoln and Navigator are trademarks of Ford or its affiliates. All rights reserved.

• 43:29Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.