Master The Art of Communication

Get ready for a game-changing episode that tackles one of the most prevalent challenges of our time: engaging in CONVERSATIONS with those who hold different viewpoints. Whether it's POLITICS, RELATIONSHIPS, or MONEY, we've witnessed a decline in CIVILITY, leading to heightened stress, anger, and violence. That’s why this week, I've invited a true expert to the show—a master in the art of fostering RESPECT in our dialogues. Join me in welcoming the phenomenal CHUCK WISNER, author of the groundbreaking book, THE ART OF CONSCIOUS CONVERSATIONS: TRANSFORMING HOW WE TALK, LISTEN, AND INTERACT. Thursdays are typically SOLO episodes but this week’s topic about the art of communication is so important that I’ve enlisted the help of Chuck. It’s still a brief episode packed with transformative skills! Brace yourself for an enlightening conversation that will undoubtedly leave a lasting impact. The key to exceptional conversations lies in our willingness to embrace TRUTH based on our unique PERSPECTIVES. As we dive into the depths of this subject, we’ll cover: Falling in love with the power of ASKING QUESTIONS driven by genuine CURIOSITY Liberating ourselves from the need for answers and instead fostering a sense of exploration Exploring the four types of conversations: STORYTELLING, COLLABORATIVE, CREATIVE, and COMMITMENT Evaluating our TRIGGERS and PATTERNS and their profound influence on our communication Differentiating between FACTS and TRUTHS, and the impact it has on our judgments Unraveling the connection between our STANDARDS and the judgments we make Cultivating a genuine sense of CARE for others and making them feel heard Paying heed to the powerful language of BODY LANGUAGE Get ready to embark on a transformative journey as we unravel the secrets of conscious communication. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ed Mylett?

  I hear so many small business owners say the exact same thing. They just never have enough time in the day. Well, I measure time differently. I've compressed, condensed, heck, I've bent time. My first day is 6:00 a.m. to noon. My second day starts at noon and goes till 6:00 P.M. And my third day, 6:00 P.M. to midnight. I now get 21 days a week. Stack that up over a month, over a year, over five years, and my life's completely different than it would have been otherwise. And if you want to win as an entrepreneur, you have to compress your time, too. And you definitely can't afford to waste it. Waiting weeks on a big bank for capital? Your best bet's to work with my friends at Cardiff. They know how to compress time for entrepreneurs. They get your business approved in minutes and funded the very same day. They're America's favorite small business lender, and for good reason.

• 0:45Ed Mylett?

  Over 20 years in business, over $12 billion deployed to small business across America. Stop letting bank delays slow down your momentum. Head to cardiff.co/ed. That's cardiff.co/ed. Cardiff.co. Real growth, fast funding. Cardiff, borrow better.

• 1:06Speaker 01

  This is the Ed Mylett Show.

• 1:10Ed Mylett?

  All right, welcome back to the show, everybody. You know, today was a very important episode for me in terms of scheduling this today because I think it's such an important topic for a couple of reasons. Number one, one of my great concerns in our culture right now is the way we talk with one another, the way we have conversations. It just seems to me, over the last 20, 30 years in our culture, we've lost the ability to have a conversation with somebody that we might not agree with in a productive way. And I'm sure you all agree with me as well. It's become very difficult in our times to dialogue with somebody that you might have a disagreement with or have a difficult conversation with. The art and science of learning to have a conversation is one of the most important skills you can have in life.

• 1:53Ed Mylett?

  Even with my kids, one of the things I hope they leave our home with is the ability to communicate, the ability to have a conversation with somebody. And it is a skill, and there are insights in how to do it better. And I just feel like it could change our world if we talk to one another better. And I think you'd agree with me, too, whether it be your personal relationships, a political discussion, a religious discussion, as a leader in your company, having a conversation about creating ideas or a new direction, whatever it might be, learning to be a better conversationalist. And I have the perfect guest. His name is Chuck Wisner. Chuck's got a book out right now called The Art of Conscious Conversations, Transforming How We Talk, Listen, and Interact. And I'm really excited to get into this topic. So Chuck, welcome to the show.

• 2:37Chuck Wisner?

  Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

• 2:39Ed Mylett?

  It really is for me. You know, a lot of times of all these people on my show that have these huge followings or guests, you know, that, you know, have major notoriety. And I've always found that oftentimes it's the topics on my show that really move people. And more and more, people are concerned about the way we talk with one another. And so I want to get right into it. How do you talk to somebody if it's a difficult conversation? One of the things I saw that you said is you ask in your writing, do your patterns of judging others reflect behaviors you don't like or want to recognize or won't recognize about yourself? So when we're in a difficult conversation with somebody, you know, maybe we disagree with them. I want to go to the hard stuff first. Like I'm a Republican and someone's a Democrat, or I'm a Democrat and someone's a Republican, something

• 3:23Ed Mylett?

  like that, you know, these hard conversations. What are some of the keys in being better at doing it? So it's actually a productive experience?

• 3:30Chuck Wisner?

  There are definitely keys that we're going to talk about. And it's also important to know that when you're in a difficult conversation, both parties have to be willing to start with truth. And if we can't have a foundation of truth, then you're going to have a very, the conversation will remain difficult. There's opinions and there's facts and there's emotions. And we get all of those mixed up, right? And they all get just cobble and jumbled up in our brain. But if we realize that my opinion is just my opinion and it's not the truth, then we can slowly, we can say, okay, what's driving my opinion? And we sort of can open our hand and

• 4:11Chuck Wisner?

  go, this is why I'm thinking how I'm thinking. This is what my standards are. There's four archetypal questions in the book. This is what I'm worried about. This is my concern. Here's what I'd like. We can start to just open our hands and say, okay, I have an opinion. Let's dance with that. Let's see what we can learn from each other. That's a very different conversation with fist than fist coming at each other.

• 4:35Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, you also say in the book that I've learned to do this myself. Is to fall in love with asking questions.

• 4:42Chuck Wisner?

  Right.

• 4:42Ed Mylett?

  You're talking with somebody, whether you're a business leader and trying to create change in your company. Or whether you're in an argument with a spouse or disagreement. Or you got to talk about something different. Like I've used, I've used politics as an example, because it's the big one, right? Right? Like they're good, we're bad. I'm right, you're wrong. And the idea of making statements all the time and telling stories as opposed to asking questions.

• 5:04Chuck Wisner?

  Right, right. And, and the, the idea of whether I'm doing it to myself and asking myself what's driving my opinion, what's driving my judgment? And why am I so hooked on the thing, right? We can also, the questions help us. Like each question can help us open someone else's hand. Because we can ask, well, what, what do you, what do you really want? What do you, what do you desire here? What do you want out of this? What are your standards for measuring this, this opinion that you have? So our questions can literally help other people unlock and unfist, right?

• 5:39Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 5:39Chuck Wisner?

  And, and, but we aren't trained to ask questions. We're trained to have answers. That's one of the major dilemmas. And then we get into school and we're rewarded for raising our hand. And then we get into business and we're rewarded for being the smartest person in the room. Right?

• 5:53Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 5:53Chuck Wisner?

  And that's a counter to the, the opposite effect is asking questions.

• 5:58Ed Mylett?

  Well, this notion of raising your hand was my next thing. So you're reading my mind. And I think one of the art forms of being a great conversationalist is actually the art of listening. And that's why questions matter so much. And you're precisely right. In school, the teacher's still talking and asking the question. We're taught, we're rewarded, raise your hand while they're still talking. And what that does to me, I want you to speak to this, to me. What that does to me is it means I'm really not listening to what you're saying. I'm already thinking about what I'm going to say back to you and my answer or my judgment or my assessment about you. Most people are already raising their hand. You know, metaphorically, when most other people are still talking and they wonder, why am I not connecting with this person? Why can't we find common ground?

• 6:41Ed Mylett?

  Because while they're talking, you've got your hand raised already. I got the answer. I know the truth. I want to say something and rather finishing and letting them finish their statement.

• 6:50Chuck Wisner?

  Yeah, so our, our brain is spinning our answer. Uh, and so there's no space actually to absorb what's coming at us from the other person. Right? And, and part of that, that actually the main reason that is we are, we get addicted to our position. Our ego and our identity gets addicted to, I believe this. And if I believe this is true, then that is, that defines who I am. And that, that is often why we enter with fists or why we enter, uh, you know, in defensively. You know, and, and can't just say, okay, I do have an opinion. I'm going to set that aside and I'm going to see if I can explore really what, what's driving this other person's thinking.

• 7:32Ed Mylett?

  But if I just want to go back for a second, everybody, first thing to ask yourself is, what's your ability to ask questions and to ask questions without judgment as someone's answering you? In other words, can you learn this, the art of not raising your hand metaphorically when someone's talking? And be fully present with their answer, absent as much as you can of judgment. We'll talk about triggers in a little bit because you have some brilliant stuff in there on triggers, which I teach in, in other areas of life. I never thought about in terms of a conversation, but the one thing that opened my eyes and why I wanted you on, among many things, is this idea of there's four conversations.

• 8:07Chuck Wisner?

  Right.

• 8:08Ed Mylett?

  And one of them is storytelling, but take the time on this and elaborate, what are the four different conversations? And what do they mean?

• 8:15Chuck Wisner?

  So these are four types of conversations. They organized the book and the reason they, that they work well to do that is they, each conversation has its own lessons to learn, tools to try, practices to try on. Be, because each conversation demands different skillsets. And they're all interconnected. We're generally without knowing about the conversation, we're just in conversation like fish and water. And as soon as we get, wait a minute, there's storytelling, there's collaboration, there's creativity and there's commitment conversations. Already we have a different lens to think about conversations.

• 8:51Ed Mylett?

  Right, right.

• 8:52Chuck Wisner?

  If I took you to spend six months with the Inuits in Alaska, and they taught you there's 27 names for snow. In those six months, when we came back to New England, you would never see snow the same way. Because all of a sudden you have distinctions about snow that allow you to see and perceive and have a different story about snow. Right? Conversation is the same way. If we can begin to think about different conversations and different ways to listen and different ways to ask questions and why it matters. We can't be in conversation as innocently. Right?

• 9:33Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 9:33Chuck Wisner?

  We go, oh, I get, I need to wake up here a little bit because I'm locked down and I'm creating a fight because I'm locked down. Right? So that's why the four conversations are just the beginning to say, we can start looking at conversations with a better lens.

• 9:49Ed Mylett?

  Yo, so good. The, the four he said, by the way, I just want to make sure you get it are storytelling, collaborative conversations, creative conversations, and commitment conversations. I want to give you a compliment on how your work helped me a little bit on the storytelling part or listening for someone's story.

• 10:07Ed Mylett?

  I have a friend who, I was watching two friends argue. One's very right wing and one's very left wing. Both these dudes I love. I love both these guys. And I actually understand the perspectives of both of them. And so the conversation was actually about welfare. And taxes. And my left-leaning friend was, you know, they were kind of arguing at first. And, you know, you know, you should be paying your fair share. You don't want to help the underprivileged. You don't know what this is like. And the other guy's like, wait a minute, you shouldn't be lazy. You should get a job and it should be temporary. The normal position, they're both really getting ingrained in it. It's like, because of your work, I'm like, wait a minute. And the one guy that was for welfare, I said, I said, John, I said, brother, really?

• 10:48Ed Mylett?

  What's the story? Like, why are you so passionate about that welfare should exist? Right? God wanted to build a bridge between these dudes. And anyway, John, who, by the way, you resemble John visually. John says, he's a really strong masculine guy. And he goes, well, man, you guys don't know this, but I was on welfare. I was a little boy. And it saved my family. And there was a time where, as a little boy, I was actually with my mother on the street begging for money so we could eat. And it was a horrible existence. And I was a scared little boy and it was traumatic for me. And thank God, my mother got on welfare. And you know what? My mother stayed on welfare for quite a while and my mom didn't really turn her life around.

• 11:32Ed Mylett?

  But I did. And now I'm a major league tax player. And I know you, buddy, over there on the right side, like all the taxes I'm playing. But you don't know what it's like not to have food. You don't. And I watched him tell the story and I had to force it. And I watched my right leaning friend listen. And the the judgment level, which is what you talk about. The judgment level was so far reduced where this is the case ironically where the story served us.

• 11:58Chuck Wisner?

  Yep.

• 11:59Ed Mylett?

  And because he, I kind of forced it because of your work to listen. And that kind of comes from questions and it goes to my next point with you. You talk about triggers often. This welfare conversation for my friend was a trigger. Why he was getting angry with the right leaning friend like you're not sensitive. You don't care. He's triggered by that thing. So talk a little bit about. And ourselves evaluating our triggers when we're listening to somebody.

• 12:24Chuck Wisner?

  The storytelling conversation is the first one for a very good reason. Because un- unless we begin to understand the stories we tell ourselves, right? Some help us, some harm us, right? But until we understand our storytelling patterns. And I use patterns in a very particular way because it it's less, it takes sting out of judgment. The patterns we have around stories and patterns we have around. Uh, how we uh, get triggered, the patterns we have around reacting to people. We didn't even choose them. They're unconscious patterns. By our family, by our culture, by our teachers, by our friends, or just our social stuff. So we have patterns, right?

• 13:08Chuck Wisner?

  So we can start looking at the story I'm telling as a pattern. I can then look at myself with less judgment. And I can go, wow, that's an amazing story I have. Is it true? What's factual? You know, and and in a way, what your friend did was he was able. To reveal his story.

• 13:30Ed Mylett?

  Mm hmm.

• 13:31Chuck Wisner?

  About his childhood, right? And and that there's a couple of things happening that he's revealing, he's opening his hand. I'm concerned because I know what it's like to be on the other side. I have my standards say that, you know, we can afford to help take care of some of these people because they do need it. And, you know, so so he revealing his hand and also it begins to show some vulnerability. And so if I show some vulnerability, the other person, or in your case with that conversation, as your friend shared his story, that vulnerability changes the other person.

• 14:10Ed Mylett?

  Very good, very good.

• 14:11Chuck Wisner?

  And that and that that reduces that tension.

• 14:14Ed Mylett?

  All conversations where there's tension, there's somehow involved in that is a judgment of the other person. Right?

• 14:22Chuck Wisner?

  Yeah.

• 14:22Ed Mylett?

  What does one do? Because it's hard. You're like, this guy's crazy. He's out of his mind. What a bozo. You know, like, it's very difficult to do. He really believes this crap? You catch yourself mid-sentence, already raising your hand going, this dude is, I gotta, let me fix this guy. Right? Let me fix this. So

• 14:40Chuck Wisner?

  Yeah.

• 14:41Ed Mylett?

  What do you do when you're starting to feel this judgment or a, because, you know, maybe the guy is crazy, right? Like, I it but what I found out in my life is like, you're not going to change that person by attacking them. You're not going to change that person by somehow being more authoritative than them, which we'll talk about in a minute in business about the power dynamic.

• 15:00Chuck Wisner?

  Yeah.

• 15:01Ed Mylett?

  But what what is a practice that I can do when I'm in mid-judgment almost of somebody going, what in the world are you talking about? Is there something you do? What's what's a technique or a thought?

• 15:12Chuck Wisner?

  So one, one technique I like, and it's a sort of a metaphor of if if something's coming at you and you really dislike what's going on, right? Your automatic reaction, your automatic pattern, right, is to react.

• 15:26Ed Mylett?

  Yes.

• 15:27Chuck Wisner?

  Right? Because because it goes into your system, goes through your your brain and and the pattern pops out. Very little effort on your part.

• 15:37Ed Mylett?

  That's right. That's right. It's triggered.

• 15:39Chuck Wisner?

  So the idea is to begin to name your pattern.

• 15:44Chuck Wisner?

  So if you have a pattern of where a certain person, kind of person, or a certain kind of conversation, whether it's politics, or sex, or abortion, that is a trigger for you, just be totally aware of that pattern and name it. In fact, there's, there's a thing called voice dialogue where you can actually name that voice in your head, like there's, um, there's snobby Chuck, or there's intellectual Chuck, or there's hurt little boy Chuck. You know, you can sort of name it, and if you can name the patterns and become familiar with it, then you might be able to catch it before it enters your body.

• 16:22Ed Mylett?

  It loses its power over you when you become aware of it and name it. Yeah.

• 16:26Chuck Wisner?

  Yeah. And then you can catch it. And then if you catch it, then literally in the book, the four questions that I, that peppers through the book. Just ask yourself, is there a power issue here? If I have a strong judgment, what standard is based, am I basing that on?

• 16:46Chuck Wisner?

  I mean, standards are in every judgment we have.

• 16:49Ed Mylett?

  Let's go through those four questions because you're going into them right now. Let's list the four and talk about the standard piece, too.

• 16:54Chuck Wisner?

  In a tough conversation, facts are important. So if you and I disagree on something, we can first say, can we find some firm ground to stand on where we have some facts we can agree on? Okay. Right? If we can do that, then that's good, firm territory. We can't do that, we might not want to go into the conversation. The second one is, we often have opinions based on concerns because we don't want tomorrow to look like today.

• 17:23Chuck Wisner?

  So our worries at two o'clock in the morning are, you know, we're worrying, oh, the kids aren't home yet, um, I have this thing tomorrow I have to take care of, and I'm not prepared. That's all concerns that wrap us up in their, their stress, right? And show up in our opinions, but we often don't talk about.

• 17:42Ed Mylett?

  Very good.

• 17:43Chuck Wisner?

  The third question is, are there power issues? In business, there's power issues. In every relationship, we have power issues. One friend can tell you, you look like, and you don't care. Another friend can say, you look, you look horrible today. You go, wow, I really want to know why you think that. Because we give their voices different power, right? Or different authority, right? And then the last question, uh, is, is standards. And it sounds like a throwaway, but every judgment we have, I don't like the lighting. I don't like that teacher. I don't like D. That's based on these under underbelly standards that we hold that we didn't even consciously choose.

• 18:24Chuck Wisner?

  Because we adopted them from our family or our DNA or our our education. That makes sense?

• 18:31Ed Mylett?

  Totally makes sense. Yeah, I it to me, it might be the most important of all of them. Even though it feels like a throwaway. You talk about up, down and across conversations in the book. Which is really powerful stuff. It's it's something that is descriptive of something we all know exists, but we never define it. So if I'm a leader and I know I walk in, let's just be real, I'm paying everybody here. Let's just say.

• 18:52Chuck Wisner?

  Yeah.

• 18:52Ed Mylett?

  Right? We all know who's calling a shot. We all know who's in charge. But I want to diffuse that. Like, I want collaboration. I want brainstorming. I don't want it to be a down conversation where I'm I'm up and talking down. What is something I can do? By the way, even as a father.

• 19:10Chuck Wisner?

  Yeah.

• 19:10Ed Mylett?

  Or a mother with my child and we're trying to figure some things out. Most parents go to the the the the easy card. I'm in charge. This is my house. It's my rules. And that's they do the power thing. It's really easy, right? So what is something as a leader, a leader to me as a parent or a business person? We can do to foster the more collaborative conversation and not that authoritative one?

• 19:33Chuck Wisner?

  Let's hit both because they're really different. So in the business setting, you're the boss, you you're paying everybody, right?

• 19:39Ed Mylett?

  Yep.

• 19:39Chuck Wisner?

  Understanding that there's that cultural pattern of people bowing to the boss.

• 19:45Ed Mylett?

  Yep.

• 19:46Chuck Wisner?

  People getting quiet if the boss says we should do X, right?

• 19:49Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 19:51Chuck Wisner?

  So you have to be super aware of that and be aware that even if you say let's do this, but you're not, you're just saying an idea. Let's well, let's think about maybe we should do this. What an un an untrained team is going to think is, well, that's it. We're done, right? So the boss in that situation really has to take his awareness and go, you know what? I'm going to come in, I'm going to present something and say, you could hear, we have a problem with quality. Let's talk about quality. I want to hear from everybody. We all have a different perspective. Let's get smart together. I don't have all the answers. And you know what? I do have a responsibility to make the decision.

• 20:33Chuck Wisner?

  But I'll make a better decision with your help and your expertise.

• 20:36Ed Mylett?

  Really good. Let's get smart together. I'm stealing that. The higher and higher we climb and the more power we accumulate accolades, we get the more people that are bowing to us. The more we think we know when actually ironically simultaneously, we're in a position to know less and less and less because we're removed from the actual work. So it's really important as a leader. I mean, humility is an important thing, obviously in life, but it's also that story. If we begin to believe the story, there's these powers to these stories. The stories, man, I call all the shots. I get everything right. I know everything. There's a reason why I'm where I am. You start to believe your own press clippings and your own story. It's the beginning and the end for a great leader of watching with political leaders. People in politics all the time. It's like nobody.

• 21:21Ed Mylett?

  They go, well, he surrounds himself with yes men, or she surrounds herself with yes people. Oftentimes in life. Well, that's the dynamic. You have to work as a leader for that not to be the case. If you just leave it to its own devices. You're saying that's sort of what the the conversation dynamic on default is going to go that direction.

• 21:41Chuck Wisner?

  That that is default mode. Right. Exactly. Yeah, right. And you know, the distinction I like to make is we are trained to be knowers. And if you're trained to be a knower, you can't say, I don't know. And leaders fall into that trap. But if you can't say, I don't know, you're all, you know, you're already not going to be a good leader because you you aren't going to be able to appreciate all the talent, all the expertise that's coming at you to make a better decision. So leaders have to say, I don't want to be a knower. I need to be a learner. And families, let me just hit on that for a quick.

• 22:13Ed Mylett?

  I want to go. That's where I'm going. Family was different.

• 22:15Chuck Wisner?

  It's it's different because we're we're talking about. I mean, age, age stuff happens in business too, but with families, and I'll use an example for myself. When the kids were young and I asked them to do a chore. I think in the book I use one or raking the leaves or something.

• 22:34Ed Mylett?

  You do.

• 22:35Chuck Wisner?

  Right? And, and, and then I go off and say, I'll pay you five bucks to do the leaves and I come back and I'm like, they're all happy and they give me my five bucks and I'm pissed like, you call this raking?

• 22:46Ed Mylett?

  Right?

• 22:47Chuck Wisner?

  Right? Well, number one, I had a standard that I didn't share with them. Number two, I, I was 40 years old. I had 40 years to understand what all that meant and what raking meant and what responsibility meant. They're seven and nine. They can't think like me. And that's often a parental gap. Where we forget that we, how could you do something so god stupid? But we forget that they don't have our 40 years or 50 years of mistakes and learning and, you know, and, and maturing through all those mistakes. They, they don't, they can't think like us.

• 23:29Ed Mylett?

  You know, one of them.

• 23:30Chuck Wisner?

  That's not, that's no excuse for bad behavior, but it changes how we approach.

• 23:34Ed Mylett?

  Of course. Well, it changes whether it'll repeat itself based on how you handle it. So, or whether they have a willingness to do anything again. If I'm constantly in business or in family, punished and punished and punished, and that becomes the standard. You've shrunk the ability to have that open dialogue of communication as opposed to learning. That difference, what you said with learning is so huge. The other thing I've learned is that, especially in these power dynamics, and you don't talk about in the book, but I want you to talk about it here, is that people feel like you genuinely want to listen to them. I'm more open with somebody if I think they're sincerely interested in my opinion. And I think there are things we do in conversations that make people think we're just trying to raise the hand thing again.

• 24:20Ed Mylett?

  And I've learned this subtly. I used to do this often. Someone's talking, I'll finish their sentence for them. Right? You think you're helping them. You're not helping them. You're telling them, I know how to say it better than you. Hurry up. Or when they're talking, you'll say things like, uh huh, uh huh, right, got it. Yes. And what those are is they're nudges. You're nudging them to say, listen, hurry up and finish what you're saying. So I can say the really important thing, which is what I'm about to say. And so there's little subtle things in conversations that wonderful conversationalists resist the temptation to do. I still do it, but I do it far less than I used to. Because I realize I'm not helping them. I'm really sending them an energy that says, listen, I got it. Okay, hurry it up. Let's pull this together. So I can say my really important thing here.

• 25:05Ed Mylett?

  You agree with that?

• 25:07Chuck Wisner?

  Yeah. And what's going on is that, you know, we're talking about conversations, but our bodies don't lie. So if I'm in a conversation and I think you're foolish, um, excuse my language. If I think you're full of it, what that's my, my internal dialogue is, what is this guy talking about? He doesn't know what he's talking about. Da, da, da, da, da, da, da. I'm so busy doing that. And I might think that's not visible. But my body language and my eyes and my manners are all broadcasting. This guy, I don't really want to listen to this guy.

• 25:42Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 25:43Chuck Wisner?

  And so the body doesn't lie, uh, our minds do. And a, a part of the book, I talk about a really important exercise of becoming familiar with our private conversations. And I've done this with hundreds of people. And, and it's the exercise where you write down a tough conversation. I said, she said, I said, she said. And then you go back and you write down what you were thinking and feeling. And that's your private conversation. And it's surprising how many people, when they write it down and they have to read it to their partner or read it out loud. They're like, oh my God, that's really ugly. But becoming familiar with it. Is how we transform it.

• 26:28Ed Mylett?

  Our own stories oftentimes can be very limiting. The stories we tell ourselves about ourselves. I think we project on to others. I think a lot of times when

• 26:40Chuck Wisner?

  Sure.

• 26:41Ed Mylett?

  Someone's in a conversation and I'm judging what they're doing. I'm telling a story that somehow, I think sometimes we're afraid they might change our mind. So I'm just gonna judge this because that way my mind is blocked from any, I have, I am so addicted to this belief. I'm so addicted to this pattern. I'm not letting you get anywhere near this space of mine where I might actually reflect on making a change here. Right? And that's a story I'm telling myself. So how do we evaluate? The stories we tell ourselves, do they limit us? And is there a way to change the story we tell ourselves?

• 27:15Chuck Wisner?

  We live on stories, we thrive on stories. The world exists because of stories. Money is a story. Law is a story. You know, I mean, if you really get into it.

• 27:26Chuck Wisner?

  But personally, we have stories that we have to investigate because they aren't the truth. And we didn't mostly adopt them consciously. You know, the story in the book that I wasn't a big enough man that I adopted from my grandfather. Well, that was a hell of a limiting story. That affected how I saw myself in a room, how I interacted with other men. Right? Our stories serve us. And we can, we can appreciate them and we should applaud them and we should, you know, live by them. But then there are stories that we tell ourselves. I'm not smart enough. I'm too fat. I don't do this well enough. I don't do that well enough. Each of those deserves some awareness and some attention.

• 28:12Ed Mylett?

  It's so good, Chuck. I'm a big believer that these stories become self fulfilling prophecies. And they're the narrative of our life. And the more to your work, the more we become aware of what we're telling ourselves about a story or a situation or a circumstance. That awareness makes that story lose power over us. And now we actually have opened up the possibility and probability of creating a different existence, a different conversation, a different relationship, a different abundance, a different emotion, a different life. And it is these stories, and I think that's why your work is so important because these stories are dictating all the dialogue. The dialogue you're having with another person is incredibly powerful. But the dialogue you're having with yourself

• 28:56Chuck Wisner?

  Yep.

• 28:57Ed Mylett?

  is the one that I got from your work that I went that dialogue I'm having with me is what's impacting the dialogue and conversation I'm having with other people.

• 29:06Chuck Wisner?

  Absolutely, and absolutely. And, and, and whether it's conscious yourself of your, whether you're conscious of them or not, your body's projecting all of that.

• 29:15Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 29:15Chuck Wisner?

  And that's going to create the reaction. You know, if I had the story, not a big enough man, the way I'm acting and behaving, other people will start thinking of me as not a big enough man.

• 29:27Chuck Wisner?

  And you, and you change it and all of a sudden it's like, well, I can stand up to anybody that I want to. And then I get a different reaction. So life does change that way.

• 29:38Ed Mylett?

  Your life literally changes. I think your book can change lives. I can change culture, the way we talk with one another.

• 29:45Chuck Wisner?

  Yeah, we need it in politics.

• 29:47Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, that's the, I went with the hardest one first because if you could actually have that conversation, you can have any conversation in my mind.

• 29:54Chuck Wisner?

  All the politicians should read my book.

• 29:56Ed Mylett?

  They should, they should. I'm telling you, we'd have a better world. And I went to the hard thing first because that's the one that's so dominant in our culture right now. We join a team, we tell a story and then we just judge and defend until the end. And it's just, it's where, why we're getting nowhere in our country and in our world too. By the way, your book is wonderful. So guys, Chuck, thank you for being here today. You guys, it's the art of, yeah, Matt, it's my pleasure. The art of conscious conversations, transforming how we talk, listen and interact. And I will submit that could transform how you live. And so go grab it, guys, if you're inclined. Remember to max out your life and hey, go grab the power of one more of my book where you're getting that book. Number one nonfiction book in the world right now. God bless you all. Max out your life.