10 Jesse & Luke | An 8-hour drive with the accused murderer

A former friend of the accused, known by the pseudonym Elizabeth Kennedy, has told the jury she spent eight hours in a van with Beau Lamarre-Condon, unaware that Jesse and Luke's bodies were in the back. In this episode Jamie McKinnell explains the evidence of Elizabeth Kennedy — how she said the accused murder photographed Jesse Baird with another man through his bedroom window, her contact with the accused following the shooting, and the protection from prosecution she was offered. If you have any questions you'd like Jamie and Stocky to answer in future episodes, please email [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. Family and domestic violence support: If you need help, contact 1800 Respect https://1800respect.org.au/ national helpline on 1800 737 732. The Case Of is the follow-up to the hit podcast Mushroom Case Daily, and all episodes of that show will remain available in the back catalogue of The Case Of.

• 0:02Speaker 06

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• 0:30Speaker 02

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• 0:47Speaker 04

  Two days after the alleged murders, during a drive to a farm south of Sydney in a van with a blue tarp in the back, a friend of Bo Lamar Condon described him as bubbly and talkative. On the way back, he was quiet, like something had gone wrong. I'm Stephen Stockwell, this is episode 10 of the case of Jessie and Luke.

• 1:08Speaker 03

  He's accused of shooting Jessie Baird and Luke Davies with his Service firearm.

• 1:12Speaker 05

  Police now allege Constable Bo Lamar Condon murdered the couple at a home in Paddington.

• 1:18Speaker 07

  This is just a terrible incident that's occurred here, the loss of these two young men.

• 1:25Speaker 00

  Now this is nigh to grave time and yet it's a community in mourning.

• 1:28Speaker 08

  The pain is ongoing. We don't have a lot of answers that we would love to have, just to help bring closure, to bring peace.

• 1:36Speaker 04

  We've had our closest descriptions of Bo Lamar Condon's movements and manner in the days following the alleged murders of Jessie Baird and Luke Davies from a friend who drove with him to a farm in Bungonia, giving evidence over the last couple of days. There throughout all of this is the ABC's legal affairs reporter, Jamie McKinnell. Welcome, Jamie. Hi, Stocky. Jamie, am I right in thinking this is the kind of first time we've had someone describe how Bo Lamar Condon acted following the deaths of Jessie and Luke?

• 2:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, and there were almost two different versions presented. So this witness was explaining that one of the versions was bubbly and chatty and someone who wouldn't stop talking, hardly let her get a word in. And the second version she remembered was someone who was very quiet and said things like, if I'm quiet, I'm not angry, I'm just thinking, and was making cryptic comments. So this was from someone who spent hours with Bo Lamar Condon during this drive a couple of days after the alleged murders.

• 2:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, there is a lot to talk about in this episode. Can you wrap up the last couple of days for us?

• 2:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, sure. So the jury has heard from a witness who was in the white van with Mr. Lamar Condon on the day he's accused of trying to dispose of the bodies of Jessie Baird and Luke Davies. And she's recalled this long drive to the Goulburn area, a trip to Bunnings, a panic attack outside a farm, and cryptic comments from the defendant on the return trip. This woman, who's known as Elizabeth Kennedy, has told the court that a day before he was arrested, the accused told her that he loved her, that he was sorry if an upcoming overseas trip wasn't going to happen. And she said this sounded like a final phone call. But the defence team has accused this witness during cross-examination

• 3:17Speaker 03

  of being more complicit in what the Crown has described as a cover-up. She's denied suggestions that she was the one who had this plan to dispose of the bodies, and also denied giving untruthful evidence to minimise her role.

• 3:34Speaker 04

  Thank you, Jamie. There is so much to talk about in this episode with Elizabeth Kennedy. It's a bit of a bumper addition of the case of Jessie and Luke to kind of get through all of this, talking about how she knew Bo Lamar Condon, what she knew about Bo Lamar Condon's contact and relationship with Jessie Baird. Before we get into all of that, though, can you explain the contact that she had with Bo Lamar Condon following the alleged murders?

• 3:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, so this witness, who's been given the pseudonym Elizabeth Kennedy, she had a lot of contact with Bo Lamar Condon in the week of the alleged murders. And we heard that there were regular text messages, but there were also sometimes messages or calls on the encrypted app Signal. So we've heard that Jessie and Luke died on the Monday morning. This drive that Ms. Kennedy went on with the accused was on the Wednesday to this farm in the Bungonia area. And this is where the Crown alleges that he attempted to sink the two men's bodies in a dam while they were still in surfboard bags, using cement and weights. Now, we heard that Elizabeth Kennedy then talks to Bo Lamar Condon again

• 4:39Speaker 03

  on the Thursday evening. And at that point, we heard that she had seen news reports about Jessie Baird going missing. She was thinking about what had happened and was concerned and curious about what the drive was about. And she told us as well in her evidence that Bo Lamar Condon at that point had made arrangements to go and hand himself into police on the Friday morning. But Ms. Kennedy also presented to police with a lawyer on Friday, and she later helped them try to find the farm and try to find the two bodies.

• 5:13Speaker 04

  She also got some sort of certificate for her evidence. What was this?

• 5:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, so the judge, Justice Natalie Adams, has explained to the jury that this certificate means that none of her evidence can be used to prosecute her in a New South Wales court. The evidence, according to the judge, may tend to prove that she concealed a serious offence, and that serious offence in this case was accessory after the fact. So it means that her evidence is covered by what is essentially a promise or an agreement that she won't be prosecuted, in the same way that she gave an induced statement to police. That was sort of the same agreement or promise. But we also heard in the judge's explanation, Stocky, that this does not extend to protection if the evidence she gives is false or to perjury.

• 6:04Speaker 04

  Okay. I do want to talk about the defence version of what Elizabeth Kennedy's involvement was in the alleged murders, the conversations she had with Bo Lamar Condon following that, what they say the conversations were, and we'll come to that later in the episode. First, I want to talk about how she knew Bo Lamar Condon and what she knew of Jessie Baird as well. We heard from Elizabeth Kennedy that she met Bo Lamar Condon in her teenage years. They didn't start hanging out until after they'd finished high school. He sent her a message saying, I think you're on my level now, we should hang out. And that's when they started kind of spending more time together. And she was aware of Jessie Baird, but had never met him. How did she describe Jessie Baird and Bo Lamar Condon's relationship?

• 6:47Speaker 03

  Well, she was asked a lot of questions about her impressions of this connection or relationship in early 2023. And she said that, based on what she saw, she thought that they were official as a couple. She said they were spending a lot of time together. She saw a lot of posts on Mr. Lamar Condon's social media about Jessie Baird. And she said that the defendant would always bring his French Bulldog, called Ivy, along to meeting up with Mr. Baird because he knew that Jessie liked this dog. And she said that he would sort of use it against him and use the dog to almost tempt Mr. Baird to spend time with him. But she also noticed that Bo Lamar Condon seemed worried that

• 7:30Speaker 03

  Mr. Baird was seeing other people. And she said that he was kind of absent when he was with Mr. Baird. And it was only when there were problems that she would hear from him. She said that she also heard from the defendant him describing Jessie as the one. And she said that he became infatuated with Mr. Baird.

• 7:51Speaker 04

  Interesting that she never really heard, or she said she didn't really hear from Bo Lamar Condon unless things weren't going well in that relationship with Jessie Baird. Because I want to talk about some of the things that happened over what seemed to be breaks in that relationship. You know, we've spoken previously, Jamie, about a break into Jessie Baird's house in August of 2023. But on Elizabeth Kennedy's evidence, this wasn't the only time that, you know, Jessie Baird's house had been broken into.

• 8:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, Elizabeth Kennedy told the court that Mr. Lamar Condon had told her that he'd broken into Jessie Baird's Paddington terrace before. And she said that he told her he used a key that he had cut because he knew where the spare key was. And this one occasion that she spoke about before, the one that we've already heard about, was, she said, when he went into the house at night when Jessie was asleep, took his phone, walked out into the street and was using the phone to do things like delete photos with other men, block contacts, to also unmute himself on Jessie Baird's Instagram. And she said that he told her that he also turned on Snapchat location services and

• 9:01Speaker 03

  then returned the phone. She said that he was telling her this in person. And she said the Snapchat location services meant that he could see Mr. Baird's live location. And she claimed that in person, once when they were talking, he even opened Snapchat and showed her this. And she said that when he was explaining these things to her, he seemed really happy with himself and he seemed proud.

• 9:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, right. Did she say as well that Bo Lamar Condon was making fake dating profiles for Jessie Baird?

• 9:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, so Elizabeth Kennedy said that the defendant told her he had also made fake profiles on Tinder and Grindr and in relation to a Grindr profile. She said that he once sent a man off that app to Jessie Bird's house and was apparently annoyed when this didn't work because that person went inside. And she said she knew that he had watched this happen because the defendant told her that he was sitting in his car across the street and watching. Ms Kennedy also said that Bola Markcondon had also watched Jessie Bird have sex with other men through his bedroom window. She said that this was brought up on two occasions.

• 10:12Speaker 03

  And on one of them, she said that the defendant sent her a photograph through the bedroom window on Signal. And on the other occasion that she heard about, she was just told about this. And she said this was a photo that she received. She described as being through a curtain or a blind that was very thin, so you could still see people through it. And she said that it looked like from the photo that the defendant was outside and was creeping outside Jessie Bird's home.

• 10:40Speaker 04

  Okay, yeah, certainly interesting to hear the things that Elizabeth Kennedy was telling the court, Bola Markcondon had told her over the kind of 2023, I suppose this was. Now, Jamie, I want to get to the week of February 19, 2024. This is the week of the alleged murders of Jessie Bird and Luke Davies. It's alleged that happened on the morning of February 19, Monday morning. What contact did she say she had with Bola Markcondon the week of the alleged murders?

• 11:08Speaker 03

  Well, on the Tuesday, on the 20th, she said that those two spoke about going to Taylor Swift on the weekend and the defendant spoke about whether he was going to do it as a shift or whether he might end up there. But she said that Taylor Swift seemed to be a real theme of that conversation and they didn't really speak about anything else.

• 11:26Speaker 04

  Okay, yeah. Then on the Wednesday morning, and this kind of came out of nowhere, Bola Markcondon has surgery first thing in the morning. He's in an operating theatre between sort of 7.30 and 8am from the sounds of it. He has a general anaesthetic, so he's put to sleep, but he does leave that hospital by 9.30am. And we heard a statement from the surgeon that said it was a minor procedure, no detail on what that procedure was, but he didn't expect Bola Markcondon's mobility to be affected at all. And then later on the Wednesday, we see purchases or receipts for stand-up paddleboard bags bought around lunchtime, some Bunnings purchases around 2pm for a tarp, wheelbarrows, some concrete.

• 12:09Speaker 04

  And then Bola Markcondon, or Elizabeth Kennedy, says Bola Markcondon meets her at her place around 3pm. He is in a white van, she gets in. What does she notice?

• 12:19Speaker 03

  Well, she said that she noticed there was a blue tarp in the back. There was sort of a grey or a metal mesh area between the passenger area and the rear of the van. And she said she couldn't really see through that mesh, but she did see what she thought was a blue tarp. And she also noticed that the van had a smell about it. She said it was a lemony kind of smell, almost like it had been cleaned, sort of like an Ajax type of smell. She also said during this drive that the windows were left open and the air conditioning was left on full. And she said that they initially stopped near a park to book some accommodation or things for an upcoming Europe trip that they were planning together.

• 13:02Speaker 03

  And then after that had been done, she said Bola Markcondon asked her if she wanted to go for a drive. She said, okay. And then they started this trip that ended up being a pretty long trip, about two hours. They drove towards the Galburn area. They ended up stopping at the Bunnings in Galburn. And there he asked her to pay for an angle grinder. And then they ended up in this farm in the Bungonia area where she says Mr. Markcondon cut a padlock at the front gate using the angle grinder and went further into the property, driving the van while she was waiting around.

• 13:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, okay. Interesting to hear her descriptions of this property and the kind of conversations they were having around that point, Bola Markcondon kind of cutting through this padlock. I think he cuts his finger at one point, or Elizabeth Kennedy says he cuts his finger using the angle grinder at one point in there. And then, yeah, she can't see anything on her evidence from where she's standing at the gate to this property. And she's there for a while from the sounds of it and getting increasingly anxious. You know, she says she told Bola Markcondon that, you know, she could be gone for long. Her boyfriend was cooking her dinner and she was kind of seemed anxious to get back for a nice dinner that was being cooked for her. She's had her phone off this whole time. Bola Markcondon says you can't turn your phone on, so you can't make any phone calls. She can't call anyone. How long is she waiting for?

• 14:23Speaker 03

  She remembered it being about 30 or 40 minutes. And she said that towards the end of that time, she started having a panic attack. And it started getting dark. By the time that Mr. Markcondon returned in the van, she said she was hyperventilating and crying. It was getting dark and she noticed that when he returned, he was wearing gum boots. And she remembers him telling her to shush while she was panicking. And she said he also checked that she followed her instructions and not used her phone, not called anyone. So I think it was about 8pm when they end up starting the return drive to Sydney. And she says that during the drive, he was avoiding tolls, even though she had knowledge of a shorter way to get there.

• 15:06Speaker 03

  And she said that he was also mentioning that he would need to go back to Bungonia. And she wasn't sure why, but she said that it almost seemed like something had gone wrong. And during this drive back, that's when she says that he said something along the lines of, if I'm quiet, I'm not angry, I'm just thinking. And she says it was an awful drive back because it was freezing, the windows were still down, the air con was still going.

• 15:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, do they stop anywhere?

• 15:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, so they stopped on the way to get fuel. And Elizabeth Kennedy told the court that Bola Markcondon wanted her to fill up the vehicle, but she didn't know how because she doesn't drive. She said that he seemed annoyed that he had to then do that himself and go in. She said that he didn't want to be recorded on security cameras. And she also mentioned that he made this request of her for a peach iced tea because he would need the caffeine. And she claimed that he was saying he was going to have to be up all night. And because he didn't drink coffee, then he would need the caffeine for what was going to be a long night.

• 16:11Speaker 04

  Yeah. Does she make it home for dinner?

• 16:13Speaker 03

  No, they end up getting home about 11pm or midnight. And she also mentioned in her evidence that he didn't stop right outside her house. He sort of stopped the van around the corner and she had to get out and walk the last little bit.

• 16:28Speaker 04

  Hmm. On Elizabeth Kennedy's evidence, she doesn't seem or sound suspicious of what is happening at this point. You know, she gets in the car kind of willingly. They talk about, you know, booking some Europe accommodation, as you mentioned, Jamie, and they have a quick stop and then she goes on this drive. But that seems to change a bit on Thursday. This is Thursday, the 22nd of February. She tries to call Bola Markcondon a number of times through that day. And, you know, they're reading out the Times in court and there were, by my count, sort of seven or eight calls, some within minutes of each other, kind of increasing frequency in the afternoon after she sees news of Jessie's disappearance after around lunch. She can't get through to him on any of those calls.

• 17:12Speaker 04

  Eventually, she gets a call back from Bola Markcondon around 6.30 that evening. What does he say?

• 17:18Speaker 03

  Well, by this point, Elizabeth Kennedy says that he had a plan to go and have a meeting with police on the Friday morning. So she says that at this point she had seen news about Jessie Bird going missing and she was trying to call him because she wanted answers about his behaviour the night before. She also brings up the fact that Jessie is missing at this point on this call. And Bola Markcondon, according to her, says, yeah, that's crazy. And, you know, at this point, as we said, he's going to go and speak to police the next day. But she also remembers in this call him saying, I love you and if our Europe trip doesn't happen, I'm sorry. And she said that the tone of this call seemed like it was some kind of final phone call.

• 18:03Speaker 04

  Hmm, okay. What does, what does she do?

• 18:08Speaker 03

  She told the court that she spoke to her partner and that they decided maybe you need to go and speak to police. So that's where she ends up getting a lawyer and making her way to Bondi Police Station on the Friday. And she ends up being part of this search of the Bungonia area, but she can't remember a lot of details about where the farm was. She said in her evidence that she had never been to Goulburn before and everything looked the same. It looked like a lot of dirt roads. But she ends up being part of the search with police, helping them try to find this particular property that she went to, that she can really only remember that it had dams. She remembers a couple of different letters in the name, but she was certainly part of that that search effort to find the

• 18:53Speaker 03

  Bungonia farm.

• 18:54Speaker 04

  Hmm. It did give real sort of needle in haystack vibes when they were talking about the the search for what we now know and what the jury knows is Chella Farm that Bola Markcondon visited on that kind of Wednesday and Wednesday night through Thursday morning. That's what we've heard so far. Jamie, the version that was given by Elizabeth Kennedy in her evidence in chief is quite different from the version that Bola Markcondon's lawyers have given for her involvement in this process, in, you know, in the conversations she's had with Bola Markcondon following the alleged murders of Jessie Baird and Luke Davies. What does Bola Markcondon's barrister say Elizabeth Kennedy's involvement in this is?

• 19:35Speaker 03

  Well, this was coming out through his questioning in cross examination. So John Stratton, S C, through his questions, suggested that his client called Elizabeth Kennedy on Tuesday and told her that Jessie was dead and asked whether he should go to police. And in his questioning, John Stratton also suggested that the witness, Elizabeth Kennedy, was the one who said, no, you can't do that. I watch a lot of crime documentaries. They won't believe you. We have to hide the bodies. So she was denying all of these suggestions in the cross examination, but through Mr. Stratton's questions, he was suggesting that she well and truly knew there were two dead bodies in the back of this van. In fact, in

• 20:17Speaker 03

  one of his questions, he put to her that Mr. Lamarcondon even lifted up the tarp in the back of the van and showed her Jessie Baird's body. So she was denying that any of this happened, that she was actually asked for help and then agreed to go along with a plan that was allegedly the disposal of two bodies. But there were a lot of different propositions and suggestions put to her as questions that Mr. Stratton was really suggesting the the defence alternative version of this trip.

• 20:45Speaker 04

  Hmm. One of the questions, I think, was that she had, you know, after being shown Jessie Baird's body in the back of the van, the suggestion from John Stratton was that she had said, this is like the Taylor Swift song, No Body, No Crime. What did she, how did she respond to that?

• 21:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, so she seems to agree that that that song was played in the van, but she denies that she was the one who raised it or said that. So Mr. Stratton was asking, you know, whether the defendant said anything to you, like, if you don't want to help, that's, that's okay, I'll understand. But then during the drive, this is when the Taylor Swift song is played. According to the defence's questions in cross examination, it was, it was Elizabeth Kennedy who said, oh, this is like that song. But in her cross examination, she said, no, it was the defendant who was the one who put that song on during the drive. And she said that that was surprising because it's a niche Taylor Swift song and she was

• 21:47Speaker 03

  curious about how he even knew it. She went into a bit of detail here about even what album that song is from. But she seems to agree that the song was played in the car, but she denied that she was the one who raised it.

• 22:00Speaker 04

  Hmm. And the questions from John Stratton got quite pointed towards Elizabeth Kennedy at this point, kind of suggesting that, you know, she knew there were bodies in the back of this car, that, you know, she was giving untruthful evidence. How was she responding to these?

• 22:17Speaker 03

  Well, she, she made a lot of very firm denials and, and, and told Mr. Stratton that that's wrong, or that's incorrect, or you're wrong again. She was quite firm with shutting down these suggestions and then even went back to reciting what she had originally said in her evidence in chief. So she's denied that she knew anything about the alleged murders. She's denied that she was ever asked to help and then agreed to help. And Mr. Stratton was putting all of these suggestions to her and she was issuing these quite firm and sometimes pretty blunt denials or rebuttals. She also denied that she has given untruthful evidence to make herself out to be a valuable witness and to minimise her role in disposing of evidence to avoid prosecution.

• 23:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, okay. We did hear that this witness is living with a kind of number of psychological issues at the moment. How was she giving evidence?

• 23:13Speaker 03

  There was one point during the cross examination where they were playing some CCTV of the Bunnings Goulburn stop and the witness actually asked for a break because she said she was having flashbacks. But that CCTV ended up continuing to be played and she said she was going to power through.

• 23:30Speaker 04

  Yeah. I did notice during that video, it was, I think about 20 minutes or so, we watched a video of her and Bola Markcondon wandering around the the Bunnings in Goulburn. And there's a point where they're in the tool shop. And I was watching, you know, Elizabeth Kennedy on the video link at this point. And at the checkout, as they're waiting there, there is a little dog in the trolley of the trolley in front of the car, the person in front of her. And she goes up and kind of pats the dog in this CCTV. And I noticed her sort of smiling at the screen as she was watching that moment. Was there, you know, anything you noticed about the way that she was responding to the the questions while she was giving evidence, Jamie?

• 24:05Speaker 03

  She certainly was firm when she was saying those things like, that's wrong and you're wrong. I did notice as well, there were multiple times during her evidence in chief where she was asked to slow down. She was speaking quite quickly and she was brought back to narrow windows of time where the prosecutor, Caitlin Diggins, was saying, I'll just get you to focus on the period before this event or this, this month or this part of the year. There were multiple times where she was, she was refocused on a particular question. And there were a couple of times where she was also reminded in giving evidence that she could only stick to giving evidence about what she either heard from the defendant or observed herself, as opposed to going into what she thought at the time

• 24:49Speaker 03

  or what she assumed at the time. So she did get a couple of reminders about those kind of things.

• 24:53Speaker 04

  Jamie, we finished yesterday with some more CCTV evidence. We saw the rental car place on the afternoon, or I think around lunchtime of Thursday, the 22nd. We also saw a new vehicle of interest introduced there. It was a white SUV that arrived at the rental car place at about the same time. We saw Bola Markcondon's mother kind of walking over and talking through the window of. Do we know whose car this is?

• 25:17Speaker 03

  No, that hasn't been explained yet, but the Crown Prosecutor Brett Hatfield, S C, did point it out to say that this is a sort of new vehicle of interest for the first time we're seeing that. But then the CCTV sort of moved to another part of this timeline where there was a white van recorded travelling north of Sydney and up towards the sort of Newcastle area. It parked across the road from a Bowls Club. And we've also heard that the people at the Bowls Club, some of them gave written statements. There was one man who remembers being in the car park area and noticing this van sort of stopped in the car park or not far from it. And that witness remembered seeing a person as a sort

• 26:01Speaker 03

  of silhouette in the night. And it looked like to him that this person was cleaning the van. It was sort of leaning in and doing things in the van. He said there was a couple of conversations or talk with the people present in the car park that maybe, maybe it's a dog squad vehicle. There was some dog squad activity in the area sometimes. And they thought maybe they were just cleaning the van because the the dogs might have done something. But then we heard on the Friday morning, that area was cordoned off by police. And that's when that witness from the Bowls Club started speaking to them and wondering what had happened.

• 26:36Speaker 04

  Hmm. Okay. Thank you, Jamie. Something that I'm sure we will hear a bit more about over the the coming days as the trial continues of Bola Markcondon for the alleged murders of Jessie Baird and Luke Davies. We are getting a heap of questions sent through to [email protected]. Jamie, I'd love to dive into a couple of them now. We've got a little bit of time. We can, we can squeeze them in. I want to start with one here from Pat from Ascot Vale. He's wondering about the pseudonyms. Are these people sworn in with their real names or the pseudonym? And then how does it work throughout the hearing?

• 27:07Speaker 03

  So they're sworn in with their real names and their real names are actually used through court, through the questions or when they're referring to each other. But the pseudonym is only for the purpose of media reporting outside the courtroom. And Justice Adams actually reminds jurors of this when there is a witness who has a pseudonym. Sometimes she says, just in case you see any media coverage, this person will be known as this pseudonym. Remembering as well, Stocky, that the jurors obviously have been told, don't seek out the media coverage. But it's, that reminder seems to be just in case they happen to come across it and they see a different name and it might not seem to add up with what they've heard in court.

• 27:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, okay. Thank you, Jamie. Thank you, Pat. Appreciate the email sent through to [email protected] that's come in there. Jamie, one here, actually from a number of people. We've had a heap of emails about Bola Markcondon's call to Dana Shagan, a friend of his. This is after his arrest. Thank you to Shannon, Laura, Nick, Sarah, Michael, probably a couple more that have come in just while we've been recording this episode as well, Jamie, the speed that they have been coming in. How was Bola Markcondon able to make that call?

• 28:17Speaker 03

  Well, we know that this was at a point that was about a month after his arrest. So he was in custody at this point and the jury hasn't had this explained, the sort of mechanics of how that call was made or happened. But we did hear when that call was mentioned that they did a subscriber check on the phone number and that it was actually registered to a woman who was friends with the defendant.

• 28:42Speaker 04

  Okay, but no further detail on kind of how that's come about or anything yet?

• 28:46Speaker 03

  Not yet.

• 28:47Speaker 04

  Okay, thank you, Jamie. Thank you to everyone who's emailed in about that. We really do appreciate all the emails you send. I am reading every single one of them and I will say at the moment it's taking quite a bit of time because we're getting a lot of emails coming through, Jamie. People very interested and having a lot of questions about this trial and how this is unfolding. So really appreciate everything you're sending through. And Jamie, one here from Hayley. Hayley noticed we've been speaking about the evidence of former friends of Bowler Mark Condon and she's wondering whether this is because that they've said that they're no longer friends with Bowler Mark Condon or whether it's a reasoned view of ours, we're making this decision that no one can be friends with someone accused of these crimes.

• 29:24Speaker 03

  So usually they're saying it, but sometimes they're also saying things that give a strong indication that that's the situation. So for example, Ms Shagan, I remember her being asked about her text messages with the defendant and she did specifically say, yes, I handed them all over to police and then I deleted them because I didn't want to look at them anymore. So sometimes witnesses will say things that it's a reasoned view that they are not friends with the defendant anymore.

• 29:51Speaker 04

  Thank you for clarifying that for us and also thank you for your questions. Really appreciate hearing from you. Love that you're sending all these questions through to [email protected]. We are getting a lot. I do feel legitimately bad that we can't answer all of them, but there are so many coming through at the moment that it would take us, Jamie, I think quite literally hours to work through them all, but it's lovely to know how interested you are and it's so wonderful to have all of the feedback you're sending through as well. Jamie, do we know who's giving evidence next?

• 30:20Speaker 03

  The jury hasn't been given a heads up exactly what's coming, but I think it would be fair to say that there might be more CCTV coming. That seems to be a thing that we've returned to. We've also moved in the timeline to the Lampton or Newcastle area, so that might be a continuing theme. And there's another witness that we are still yet to hear from, but we know who we will hear from at some point. It's the friend who was in the surfboard bag shop and the friend who was also with the defendant in the sushi train. So that's, we don't know when that is happening, but that's another witness who may be up soon.

• 30:58Speaker 04

  Plenty more to hear in the case of Jessie and Luke. Jamie, I really appreciate you taking us through all of this in today's episode. So much to talk about with Elizabeth Kennedy. So thank you for all of your efforts. Really appreciate you joining us for this. We'll be back in your feed on Tuesday next week. Tell your friends and family if you've been enjoying the pod. Also, get around ABC, listen, best place to not only listen to, but also watch The Case of. You can also watch us on YouTube. And if you are using a third party app for listening, you can leave us a rating or a review. Jamie, we did have a question actually from Katie who thought we do deserve five stars, but wasn't sure how to rate us on those apps. So Katie, if you're using a third party app, something like Pocket Casts or Spotify or one of them, there's usually a few little stars sitting around there somewhere.

• 31:42Speaker 04

  So you can click on that, you know, put in five stars. I do hope that the five stars we deserve is out of five, so not out of 15 or 20 or something like that, but yeah, usually it's five. So you can pop that in somewhere on those apps and that just makes it easier for other people to find the podcast, helps with discoverability and things like that. Because if you're enjoying this, hopefully other people can enjoy it as well.

• 32:06Speaker 04

  The Case of Jessie and Luke is produced by ABC Audio Studios and ABC News. This episode was reported by Jamie McKinnell and presented by me, Stephen Stockwell. Our supervising producer is Greg Muller and our executive producer is Claire Rawlinson. Thanks to video producer Dylan Bean, to senior lawyer Jasmine Sims, our legal queen for her legal advice to the New South Wales newsroom, and also to audio studios manager Eric George. This episode was produced on the land of the Gadigal and we're entry people.