05 Alan Jones | Judge allows change to charges

Complainant J's friends and family have given evidence which has led the prosecution to alter dates on some charges - something Alan Jones's defence has objected to. Sydney reporter Isobel Roe takes Stocky through the conflicting evidence and Judge Glenn Walsh's response to the discrepancies. If you have any questions you’d like Isobel and Stocky to answer in future episodes, please email [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. Sexual assault support services: MARS Australia (for men affected by rape and sexual abuse) https://marsaustralia.com.au/ on (07) 3857 1222, National Survivors Foundation https://igff.org.au/ on 1300 124 43 The Case Of is the follow-up to the hit podcast Mushroom Case Daily, and all episodes of that show will remain available in the back catalogue of The Case Of.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hi, I'm Alisha Simmons.

• 0:01Stephen Stockwell?

  And I'm Lee Boucher.

• 0:03Speaker 00

  As historians, we've spent years digging into the lives of people who've changed history, for better or for worse.

• 0:09Stephen Stockwell?

  So naturally, we are extremely qualified to gossip about them.

• 0:12Speaker 00

  And because they're dead, they can't sue.

• 0:16Stephen Stockwell?

  In our podcast, we sift through Australia's most notable and notorious characters, giving you our unfiltered takes.

• 0:24Speaker 00

  Find it by searching for The Dead Can't Sue on ABC Listen or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:29Speaker 02

  ABC Listen, podcasts, radio, news, music and more.

• 0:44Stephen Stockwell?

  Alan Jones's alleged assaults on complainant Jay have now been tested with evidence from other witnesses, which has led us to some legal argument that we can actually tell you about this time. I'm Stephen Stockwell, this is episode five of The Case of Alan Jones.

• 0:59Speaker 03

  Veteran broadcaster Alan Jones has been a giant of the Australian media landscape.

• 1:05Speaker 04

  Some people said that he was more powerful than the Prime Minister.

• 1:09Speaker 05

  There was an 83-year-old male arrested this morning.

• 1:12Speaker 06

  Detectives from the Child Abuse Squad turned up at Alan Jones's luxury apartment down there at Circular Quay.

• 1:18Speaker 03

  Following allegations that he indecently assaulted multiple young men.

• 1:22Speaker 06

  I'm not going to dwell here on the allegations made about me, other than to say that I refute them entirely.

• 1:28Stephen Stockwell?

  It's been a dramatic few days in court in Sydney in the Downing Centre. There has been new evidence that has shed light on moments told to the court by Jay. Some very interesting legal discussion that's changed how we've thought about these allegations. And also something that I have never, ever seen happen in a courtroom. Riding this rollercoaster with us is ABC Court reporter Isobel Rowe. Welcome Isabel.

• 1:51Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 1:52Stephen Stockwell?

  It's been a big few days, as I mentioned, and I know this is a big ask, but do you reckon you could wrap this up for us in 60 seconds or so?

• 1:59Speaker 05

  Yes, I'll try. So complainant Jay, who we've been hearing from, finished giving his evidence. And we've started to hear from complainant Jay's family. So we've heard from his brother and we've heard from his ex-girlfriend. There have been some conflicting accounts of the timelines of these sorts of things. And because of that, it's led to this legal argument and eventually a change in the dates that some of these alleged offences occurred, potentially much later than we initially thought. And then there was a rather dramatic and unexpected end to a court day.

• 2:36Stephen Stockwell?

  Thank you Isabel. I am looking forward to talking about what happened on Tuesday afternoon, because that was very surprising. And I'll just leave that one hanging for a little bit now. Before we get to any of that, complainant Jay has finished giving his evidence. His reexamination finished quite quickly on Tuesday morning when we were back in court. And then we moved into conversations with his brother. Now, Jay was questioned about whether or not he told his brother anything. We talked about this in our last episode. There was really specific questioning from the defence about what he told his brother when he met and said, look, the police are going to contact you because I've made these allegations against Alan Jones. He insisted he hadn't told his brother anything. He said the words from police were ringing in his mind very clearly. But his brother's evidence runs against that. What did he say?

• 3:21Speaker 05

  Yeah, his brother says that in fact, they did have somewhat of a discussion about some of the allegations right after Jay made a police complaint. So his brother has been giving evidence and says that after Jay saw Alan Jones arrested in 2024, he made his police complaint. He was told he could contact some family and give them the basic instruction that a police officer would be in contact with them. He says he called his brother and his brother says, yep, I got that call. And I went to the local Macca's, which is sort of near where their house was. They met at this restaurant. And he said, his

• 4:01Speaker 05

  brother sat him down and said, this is the hardest thing I've ever had to tell you. You've probably seen the news about the defendant. He says, his brother said that I'm one of the people who has come forward, or words to that effect. Now, under cross-examination, he was asked, well, what did you say? You know, did you ask your brother what happened? And Jay's brother said there was some discussion, a bit about what happened. He said he did ask. He said the question to his brother was, how bad was it? And I'll give you a language warning for these next quotes. Jay's brother said that Jay said to him,

• 4:46Speaker 05

  he said, nothing too bad. He didn't try to fuck me or anything like that. He'd grab me on the cock. He'd kiss me, those sorts of things. And then he sort of rephrased it a bit. He said, his brother would say, he'd try to kiss me, the hugs would go for longer. He'd grab me on the cock. So that was Jay's brother's evidence of what was being said to him at this restaurant, the detail, I guess, of this alleged offending. And yeah, it goes against what Jay said, which is that they explicitly didn't have that discussion.

• 5:19Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah. And you know, further through that cross-examination, Isabel, it wasn't actually something that Gabrielle Bashir, Alan Jones's barrister, really dug that deep into. Instead, she seemed much more focused on what he remembered in his interactions with Alan Jones and also who went on a family trip to Fitzroy Falls.

• 5:38Speaker 05

  Yeah. So she asked about Fitzroy Falls. We know that where the allegations happened was one trip to Fitzroy Falls, but that Jay had told the court previously, there was a second trip and he was more comfortable going because his family went. So Jay's brother was asked about that. He said, yes, he went to Fitzroy Falls with the family. He thought it might have been after Christmas or around Christmas time, potentially 2004, 2005. He says he remembers driving down there and that his mother and his other brother were there. And he says he doesn't remember who he drove back. He wasn't sure if his brother

• 6:20Speaker 05

  was in the car. We had previously heard that Jay had stayed the night, an extra night, after this family trip to Fitzroy Falls, because he'd expected to be picking up this car, a second car that Alan Jones allegedly gave him when the first one broke down. And so we weren't quite sure what the evidence was, but we think that, well, Jay certainly said that he stayed the night and the brother wasn't quite sure whether or not he drove him back.

• 6:51Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah, a lot of conversation about what he remembered in that moment. You know, the brother seemed to remember the drive to the property quite clearly, or who was in the car with him at that point. And then when he was asked about who was in the car when he left, he actually said he just couldn't remember at all. He didn't have a clear memory of who was in that vehicle at the time. He talked about a few other occasions that he also met Alan Jones, a couple of instances at the 2GB studios in Piemont in Sydney. And I was really surprised at how good his memory was of the dates of these interactions. A couple of visits to 2GB, a visit to Alan Jones's house near the Opera House in Sydney. He gave really specific dates of these visits to Alan Jones.

• 7:34Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, he was able to piece it back together in his memory. Clearly, when he had, knew he was going to make a statement to police, he had to give dates. And he did it by matching it to horses that won races on that day. Because he says that he spoke to Alan Jones about horse racing. This was obviously something that was a passion of his. He said he remembers talking to Alan Jones when he was there with Jay and when they were younger about horse racing. And so he said he wasn't sure what the date was where he initially met Alan Jones at the 2GB studio. But he said, I went back and

• 8:12Speaker 05

  I remember that a particular horse had won a race. And so he went back and checked the form guide, I guess, to see what date it was that that horse won that race. And was it the 16th of July 2003? Yes, it was. And so that was the evidence of the first time that Jay's brother says he went with Jay and he met Alan Jones. He said it was a cordial meeting, that Alan Jones supposedly gave them a hug when they left. And there was a second time that he went, he met Alan Jones, and that was at his Macquarie Street property. He says he remembers that one because the Australian Open was on. And he remembers

• 8:55Speaker 05

  that Roger Federer won that year. And that was a topic of discussion at the Macquarie Street property, sport, of course, being a common theme in both of their discussions, in what Alan Jones is interested in, in what Jay's brother was interested in. He says he remembers he was unwell. He sort of remembers offending Alan Jones at one point where he coughed and that they excused themselves. They left. It was perfectly cordial. He gave them a hug goodbye. But yeah, that they just talked about sport, basically, and had a kind of cordial visit.

• 9:28Stephen Stockwell?

  Hmm. Yeah, the, I mean, I think the dates that are remembered by Jay's brother, we'll talk a bit more about later in this episode, because they become quite significant in the timeline of some of these allegations as well. Jay's brother was also asked, Isabel, a lot about what he saw and what support was offered to not just Jay, but also to the family as well. And, you know, Jay's brother said he never saw any behaviour that worried him, that it seemed like Alan Jones was supportive of Jay's career. And those payments and gifts to Jay weren't a secret.

• 9:59Speaker 05

  No, they weren't a secret to his family. He said that Alan Jones was happy for his family to know that he was being generous to him and that he presumed that his mother and potentially his other brothers knew. He certainly said he knew that Alan Jones had given him, was giving his brother money. He says he knew that his brother had gotten a phone, that Jay had gotten a phone from Alan Jones. He said he knew that Alan Jones had supposedly given him the car. But he did say that he remembers Jay talking about the fact that he, Alan Jones didn't like the public to know about what was going on in terms of the payments. He said he didn't want any public praise.

• 10:42Speaker 05

  But and the defence said, oh, but you know, but you knew about it, didn't you? It wasn't private to public, you know, it wasn't private to you. And and he said, oh, no, we did as a family, no. She even put to him at one point, I think, that um that, did you know that Alan Jones had bought your family a dishwasher? And he said, oh, I didn't know that, or I'm not aware of that, I'd moved out of home. Um, but he got some gifts as well, of course, that we heard about.

• 11:04Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah, was this a, was it an engagement ring and then a dinner set for his wedding, is that right?

• 11:09Speaker 05

  Yeah, um, basically, it seems like Alan Jones was, had befriended not just Jay, but Jay's brother in that Jay's brother had obviously said he was planning to propose to his now wife. And Alan Jones said, you know, can I help you with with money for a wedding ring? Um, and so he paid for or at least helped with the cost of an engagement ring for Jay's brother. And then when Jay's brother got married, he said he received a Villaroy embossed dinner set from Alan Jones as a wedding present. Um, and so from Jay's brother's point of view, you know, this was a man who was being generous to his brother, who was generous to him. Um, and we know he was asked, of course, you know, did you see anything inappropriate towards your brother at any time? And um Jay's brother said, no, I didn't.

• 11:54Stephen Stockwell?

  I um I learnt something yesterday during this part of the evidence, because as I wrote down in my notes, the gifts that Jay's brother received, I wrote Villaroy embossed dinner set. And I was like, wow, an embossed dinner set, I didn't know you could do that. And then obviously I uh did a bit of a Google to find out what this was and discovered that, no, I've just written that down. And it is Villaroy embossed.

• 12:12Speaker 05

  Villaroy embossed.

• 12:13Stephen Stockwell?

  Is a brand of uh crockery.

• 12:15Speaker 05

  Um, I don't know what it says about me that I did know what that was.

• 12:19Stephen Stockwell?

  I don't know what it says about me that I didn't know uh what it was, and also that I thought you could emboss dinner sets, so.

• 12:24Speaker 05

  Oh, you probably can, anyway.

• 12:26Stephen Stockwell?

  Look, if anyone can, Alan Jones uh can. Uh Isabel, you know, thinking about the evidence of Jay's brother, I found um his kind of confidence and clarity when giving evidence really su- almost surprising. He really was very clear and very confident in giving his evidence.

• 12:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, he he did seem quite confident. He he knew the dates that he knew, and I think he seemed confident that when he knew that he didn't know something and he was happy to admit that. On the other hand, um, I think we both probably noticed that, and she in fact said as much, that his ex-girlfriend, uh, who was next up on the witness stand, was a lot more nervous and she seemed a lot more unsure in her evidence.

• 13:08Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah, she did seem um nervous, and I do want to talk about the the evidence of Jay's ex-girlfriend here. This is the person who uh Jay says he told about the these allegations at the time, so this is in the two thousands, uh, not long after he says these these things occurred. And I mean, her story, when she got into it, once she felt comfortable, did differ slightly from uh the story that Jay had told the court as well. She had a different recollection of how she was told that, where she was told that. Um, what did she tell the court?

• 13:37Speaker 05

  So she said that when Jay confided in her, and we know that she's the only person supposedly that Jay did confide in at the time. She said that he had come to her place straight from the Fitzroy Falls trip, the one where he was there by himself, the one where these allegations supposedly happened. She says he came to her place, it was her parents' place, because they were, you know, young at the time where she was living. And she said, he walked through the door and I could immediately see something was up. She said he looked like he'd seen a ghost, he just wasn't himself. She said my words to him were, are you okay? She asked him to sit down.

• 14:17Speaker 05

  And that's when uh she says that Jay told her that Alan Jones had been touching him. And Jay has previously given evidence about this interaction as well. He said that he said sort of words to the effect of Alan Jones has been touching me or touching me inappropriately. And she used those words as well. Uh, the difference was the timing. She thinks that this conversation happened after Fitzroy Falls, but also that that was in two thousand and five, potentially as early as two thousand and six, uh, because her evidence is that they broke up in about March or April two thousand and six.

• 14:58Speaker 05

  Uh, what we've since heard is Jay's evidence was that this happened in two thousand and four. And that's the charge that's written uh on the charge sheet, is that these incidents of Fitzroy Falls happened in two thousand and four. So that's where we've run into the problem with conflicting timelines essentially in this case.

• 15:16Stephen Stockwell?

  Hmm, yeah. Um, now Isabel, the evidence has changed our understanding a little bit, not of what is alleged to have happened, but the timelines of um of what have happened. And, you know, it's not just us that this has kind of, you know, realigned some of these timeframes for this evidence. The way this evidence has unfolded in court has actually led the Crown, the prosecutors, to update some of the dates on the charges that Alan Jones is facing here. What happened?

• 15:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, so this was a bit of a surprise. Uh, I guess on um Wednesday morning, we were all ready in court to hear from the ex-girlfriend witness continuing, and the Crown popped up and said, uh, we need to change the dates of some of these alleged offences. Um, because we've had this situation where Jay has said something has happened in two thousand and four, that's what's on the charge sheet. Well, we now have evidence from the ex-girlfriend that something might have happened as late as two thousand and six. And everyone had to go away and think about that for a while, uh, as is, as lawyers want to do. They like to think about things, as they should. Uh, and then it was a big adjournment for the day.

• 16:26Speaker 05

  Alan Jones was sent home, the witnesses were essentially said, you know, don't worry about coming back, this is going to take the whole day. Uh, and then yesterday afternoon, at Wednesday afternoon at two o'clock, um, the lawyers came back and it it turned into this, you know, quite significant argument about the state of the Crown's case. The Crown basically said, look, we need to change these dates. We, Jay's evidence is something happened in, all the Fitzroy Falls allegations happened in two thousand and four. We're now getting evidence that it could have happened later. We want to change the end possible date of these charges to later. So the the charges as it stands are not something happening on a specific date, it's a date range.

• 17:10Speaker 05

  Uh, so all the Fitzroy Falls charges are alleged to have happened any time in two thousand and four. What the Crown wants is now to say any time between two thousand and four and two thousand and six. And uh their their argument was that, well, time is not of the essence here. Because these are, we're saying that this happened. Uh, it doesn't matter to us necessarily when, it was a long time ago. The defence did not like this particular uh line of argument. They were happy with one sequence or one charge being changed, but Gabrielle Bashear got up and said essentially that,

• 17:51Speaker 05

  you know, we've prepared and argued a case, we've cross-examined witnesses based on information that these things happened in two thousand and four. We were not asked to prepare a case, she said, in relation to these events of Fitzroy Falls happening in two thousand and five or two thousand and six. You know, she said, would we have to recall witnesses? We're not going to, but if we did, maybe we'd have to ask them some different questions. And she said, what is the Crown's case? You know, is it that there was a complaint to Jay's ex-girlfriend in the context of a breakup conversation later, or is it that it happened in two thousand and four? What is the case? Uh, and basically, the judge said he agreed with the prosecution. He allowed them to change the dates.

• 18:35Speaker 05

  He said, uh, the simple position of the Crown in the opening was that these things occurred. And he said, the defence's case is that it doesn't matter when it is said these things occurred, they never occurred. So he didn't see any real issue with changing the dates, because as he saw it, he agreed with the prosecution, time was not of the essence. Uh, something could have happened and two people could have remembered it happening at a different time. So we've changed the dates um from a whole lot of um uh charges, the Fitzroy Falls charges. They now could have happened any time between the first of uh January two thousand and four and the thirtieth of April two thousand and six.

• 19:17Stephen Stockwell?

  The um, the way this unfolded, um, kind of went up to eleven much faster than I was expecting this. You know, when it unfolded on Wednesday morning, I was thinking, oh yeah, this will be sort of a bit of a box ticking exercise, this won't take too long, we'll be out of here and uh and back into the evidence, uh, you know, probably within an hour or two. And then, yeah, when they came back for the arguments and there was this suggestion that, you know, this has been unfair and it's prejudiced the defendant, prejudiced Alan Jones. And I was like, oh my God, we're going to have a mistrial here, like, is the whole going to get called off? But no, that's not what's unfolded in the end. We're in a position where the the dates have been updated and we're we're underway.

• 19:50Speaker 05

  Yeah, and I was interested in his honour's commentary. He actually said, I propose to allow this and I'll give my reasons later. Actually, I'm going to give some reasons now. And then he went on this big, long sort of spiel about, and he, you know, he he speaks very clearly and clearly with a lot of background knowledge on these issues, as he keeps saying, he's been doing this for seventeen years in this jurisdiction. And he said that this actually happens quite a lot. He said, people remember something happening at a particular time, other people remember something happening at a different time. He said, often these things do change, you'll get to an end of a proceeding and realise that the charge could have happened, you know, at X time or Y time. And he said, it's okay that they change.

• 20:33Speaker 05

  The crux of this issue is whether or not these things happened, not whether they happened on a specific date. So, yeah, I I thought his explanation was quite interesting.

• 20:43Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah, I I did also love the, I'm not going to give my reasons, actually, I'm going to give some now. And then he did, he did talk for about fifteen or twenty minutes, so.

• 20:49Speaker 05

  He did, his full reasons will be published, goodness knows how long his full reasons will be.

• 20:54Stephen Stockwell?

  Impressive to knock out in just a, you know, a couple of hours as well after he had the submissions, so. Um, yeah, it was an interesting day on Wednesday as that unfolded. But also, Isabel, an incredibly dramatic end to Tuesday uh in court. We had the cross-examination of Jay's ex-girlfriend, this was really starting to heat up. And uh, you know, things were getting kind of tense, there were questions about, you know, the questions being asked, his honour was interrupting. And uh and as we were building to a crescendo, the fire alarm went off.

• 21:21Speaker 05

  Yeah, the fire alarm went off.

• 21:24Speaker 05

  I don't know if someone ran through a door or something, but it was a weird moment.

• 21:30Stephen Stockwell?

  It was so strange and it went exactly how a fire alarm going off anywhere unfolded. It is a whole bunch of people standing around, looking at each other, wondering, do we need to do anything here? Do we need to move? And you have the entire court just kind of looking at each other, waiting almost for his honour to tell everyone what to do because he's in charge of that room.

• 21:53Speaker 05

  That's right. I mean, his honour, you can't just get up and run if the buildings is on fire without bowing to his honour. So his honour, yeah, he sort of looked and he said to the witness, there's a fire alarm. And we're all like, yes, there is. And he said, well, we'll have to adjourn. It was only 15 minutes before the end of the day anyway. And then everyone sort of like got up and bowed and then ran, walked, sorry. They walked to the exit and it was a bit of a crazy moment because at the end of every day, the cameras are waiting for Alan Jones to leave. And all of a sudden, the cameras, everyone sort of put the camera on the shoulder.

• 22:35Speaker 05

  But there wasn't just one exit, there were all these fire exits where people were coming out. And we had to have journalists sort of at each door, waiting to see which door Alan Jones was going to come out of. Because at the end of the day, we ask him questions, of course. So we had every door manned and in the end, the fire alarm went off. It wasn't on for very long. I don't actually know what happened. Alan Jones made it down in the lift, I do believe, and came out the regular way. And he was asked, you know, that was a bit of excitement to the end of the day. And he said, oh, yes, and sort of chortled and then popped off into his car as he usually does.

• 23:13Stephen Stockwell?

  And away he goes. Thank you for talking us through all of that, Isabel. So much to unpack, such a dramatic end to Tuesday and such an interesting day on Wednesday as well. So plenty to talk through. We are getting a heap of questions through the case of at abc.net.au. I feel bad not being able to put all of them to you, but there are so many that are coming through. We can only hit a few key ones. And what I want to get to here is from Sylvia. We've had a lot of people who've had thoughts on the cross-examination of Jay. Sylvia thanked us for explaining that one, even though it is quite uncomfortable. She is wondering though, in a cross-examination that can get particularly difficult, can get kind of tense, is there a support person there for those moments?

• 23:57Speaker 05

  Hmm, not really. So when, well, when the complainant was giving evidence, we know that he was in a separate room. So he's not in the same room as the courtroom and he's beamed into the room via AVL. There is a court officer in that room who's sort of there just to, I guess, monitor, check the AVL's working, to check the witness stays there, doesn't need anything, hand them parcels of documents when the defence says, can you please look at document X? But they're not an emotional support person, they're not someone the complainant knows.

• 24:33Speaker 05

  As a complainant giving evidence, you could have someone come to court with you and wait outside, but you wouldn't be allowed in because it's a closed court. So the only people allowed in the closed court are the court officers, the lawyers and the media who've been pre-approved. So the short answer is no, there is no support. But we don't know if Jay had someone come to court with him and perhaps, you know, you know, have a chat with him at the end of the day, something like that.

• 25:01Stephen Stockwell?

  Thank you for explaining that, Isabel. And also thank you Sylvia for sending that one into the case of at abc.net.au. We'll be discussing the cross-examination much more in our post-trial episodes. There has been a lot of feedback on the way that that was undertaken and I'm keen to dive into all of that. As well as all the thoughts on the cross-examination though, Isabel, we've had a lot of people asking about the defence's angle. Shout out to Freya, Philip, Tess, I think there's several other names that I've also forgotten. So apologies to you if you've asked this question. People are wondering, is the defence angle that these acts never happen or that Jay consented?

• 25:37Speaker 05

  It is that they never happened. So we talked about the issue of consent last episode. The charge exists because the complainant alleges that there was no consent for this act to happen. But what the defence is saying is that none of it happened at all, that there was no kisses, there was no touching. There are some agreed facts in these cases. So Alan Jones is not alleging that they never went to Fitzroy Falls together or that, you know, he never met the complainant or that the complainant never came to his apartment. Those things are not in dispute. What is in dispute is the specific charges happening.

• 26:16Speaker 05

  And there has been total denial of any of those charges ever happening.

• 26:23Stephen Stockwell?

  Yep. Thank you, Isabel. Thank you as well to the Bevy people who asked that question. And I'm glad we could clarify it there. Isabel, we've had further feedback on the use of paper during trials. I had an email from Elle, who runs hearings and instructs barristers. But they've said that digital court books are coming increasingly common. Now, these books have all the documents numbered consistently, so the parties can find them. And also on the movement between specific documents during questioning, they say they prepare tables in a way that has an outline of the objectives for the cross-examination, how they plan to do that, links to all the documents that they plan to use as well. So we're getting an insight into the mind of the court in these moments. Isabel, thank you so much for taking us through all of these.

• 27:06Stephen Stockwell?

  If you have a question or if anyone else has a question you'd like us to ask, please get in touch, [email protected]. We love answering your questions. If there's something that isn't clear about this, we'd love to help you understand it. Isabel, where are we off to next?

• 27:19Speaker 05

  We are going to hear, hopefully now that the legal argument is done, from the rest of the ex-girlfriend evidence. We're going to hear from Jay's mother and we're going to hear from Jay's coach at school, which will be interesting, I think. I'm interested to hear from them. Then, once that is done, we believe we'll start to hear from complainant C. So a whole new complainant, whole new story.

• 27:41Stephen Stockwell?

  Yep, an entirely new chapter in the case of Alan Jones will open when we move on to a separate complainant. Isabel, thank you so much for taking us through all of this.

• 27:48Speaker 05

  Thank you, Stocky.

• 27:49Stephen Stockwell?

  We'll be back in your feed on Tuesday next week. It is a bit of a bump a week for the case of, actually. We have Aaron Patterson's appeals set down for Wednesday and Thursday. So Christian Silver will be joining us on the pod for that one. We're thinking we'll roll back to daily episodes on them. But let us know how much you would like to know about the appeal of Aaron Patterson and also the case of Alan Jones as well. You can send us an email, [email protected]. Best way to keep up with all of this, because there's going to be a lot coming in your feeds, is to wrap your head around ABC Listen. Best place to listen to the case of and also a lot of other wonderful ABC content as well now with video added.

• 28:29Stephen Stockwell?

  So you can look at not just mine and Isabel's beautiful faces, but so many other beautiful other ABC faces as well. If you're using a different podcast app, leave us a rating and a review there because it makes it much easier for people to track us down and find us and follow along on these various proceedings that we are covering at the moment. Also, tell your friends and family, if you want to make sure you've got something to talk about in the group chat or at the family luncheon on the weekend. You can share this and then you're on the same page to keep up to date with these things. Looking forward to being back in your feed very soon.

• 29:09Stephen Stockwell?

  The case of Alan Jones is produced by ABC Audio Studios and ABC News. This episode was reported by Isabel Rowe and presented by me, Stephen Stockwell. Our supervising producer is Greg Muller and our executive producer is Claire Rollinson. Thank you to senior lawyer Jasmine Sims and also to Anne Flavon for their legal advice this week. Also to the New South Wales newsroom and to Audio Studios manager, Eric George. This episode was produced on the land of the Gadigal and we're on tree people.