Steph in Purgatory, a LeBron Mini-Mailbag, Jaylen Trade What-Ifs, and the Revived Red Sox With Joe House and Bill’s Dad

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Joe House to discuss the biggest losers of LeBron going to the Sixers before diving into a mailbag. Then, Bill’s dad pops on to talk about the Red Sox turning the season around, the World Cup in Boston, the Jaylen Brown trade, and much more! (0:00) Intro (2:20) Losers of the LeBron signing (25:04) Mailbag (01:18:18) Catching up on Boston sports with Bill’s dad Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Joe House and Bill’s Dad Producers: Chia Hao Tat and Eduardo Ocampo The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit https://fanduel.com/playwithaplan to learn more about the resources and helplines Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by PayPal. The holiday rush is coming and you can get ahead of it with PayPal. Shop your favorite online stores with PayPal this season like eBay for collectibles, Fanatics for teen gear, Walmart for tech. Check out the flexibility to pay now or pay later and split your payments with Pay in four with no interest, no late fees. Shop now with PayPal. Paying for subject to approval. Learn more at paypal.com slash paying for PayPal, Inc., NMLS 910457. This episode is brought to you by 7up. Okay, this one's a case for conspiracy bill. Let's bring them in. Ever notice lemon is everywhere from lemon recipes to lemon scented cleaning supplies?

• 0:43Bill Simmons?

  And when it comes to lemon lime sodas, why is lemon always first? There's a reason. A shadowy organization called the A Lemonade has been padding the stats, keeping big lemon in the lead for decades. But let me tell you something, the sip is about to be flipped. 7up is fighting back, swapping lemon lime for their new lime lemon soda. Now lime comes first. 7up, flip the sip.

• 1:13Bill Simmons?

  The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by PayPal. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network where I had an Unexpected Friday podcast, if you missed it. LeBron picked the Sixers. I had Zach Lowe coming on anyway to take redraftables for this podcast, but we ended up running all of it on Friday. So if you wanted to hear our gut reactions to that, that's what went up on Friday. Zach did something on his podcast as well. Rewatchables Obsession Live on Netflix at 7 o'clock Eastern, 4 o'clock Pacific. It's going to be me and Chris Ryan and Joanna Robinson, who is fresh from Comic Con. Can't wait to talk about that movie. It is the first same year movie we've done for 2026.

• 1:57Bill Simmons?

  I'm sure we're going to end up doing the Odyssey at some point, but we try to do one movie from the year itself every year, and this seemed like a good one. There's been really fun movie to talk about. I loved it. So that is tomorrow. Stay tuned for that. Coming up on this podcast, House and I are going to talk about the losers of the LeBron saga, and then I have a big ass mailbag with a lot of good questions. So thanks to everybody who mailed in that stuff. And then after House, my dad finally agreeing to come on. Three weeks after the Jaylen Brown trade? Was so mad about the Jaylen Brown trade, refused to come on. And, uh, and now he's going to finally come on and we're going to talk about the state of Boston sports at the, for the last 35, 40 minutes of this podcast.

• 2:42Bill Simmons?

  So it's a little, little Sunday surprise for you. I know, uh, I know I said I wasn't going to have a podcast on Sunday, but, um, we're going to do it. I am not sure about the rest of the week yet, so stay tuned on that. You might not be seeing me until next Sunday, but we will see. Anyway, let's take a break. Pearl Jam and then, uh, my buddy Joe House.

• 3:27Bill Simmons?

  All right, tipping this Sunday afternoon, Joe House is here. Our baseball team's made a trade last night.

• 3:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:33Bill Simmons?

  Early for me. You liked me, I liked early. I'm happy for both of us.

• 3:37Speaker 01

  There we go. And I'm, I'm happy to have baseball back in my life. Washington hasn't been competitive since 2019 when they won the World Series. And they weren't supposed to be competitive this year, which is why they have a historically bad bullpen.

• 3:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, really bad. I saw, I saw it when they played the Red Sox. You didn't have a single guy.

• 3:55Speaker 01

  You enjoyed it.

• 3:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 3:56Speaker 01

  You saw it and you enjoyed it.

• 3:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, we made a trade.

• 3:58Speaker 01

  It's good baseball. Let's go.

• 4:00Bill Simmons?

  We're going to do a mailbag. But before we do that, I want to talk about, uh, the LeBron signing to Philly happened on Friday. And I wanted to do a quick thing about the biggest losers from the LeBron signing.

• 4:14Speaker 01

  Well, hold on a second. It's warm. Let me get a little warm up here too.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  It's a little warm.

• 4:24Bill Simmons?

  Oh my God. I didn't know they actually sold those. I thought that was a joke.

• 4:29Speaker 01

  Well, now they need to do the Caleb Wilson jizz room one. And then we'll really be cooking. What a July.

• 4:38Bill Simmons?

  That was a fun one, cause that got aggregated in a way that made me sound like a psycho, which I kind of enjoyed.

• 4:46Speaker 01

  Aggregated.

• 4:48Bill Simmons?

  I was trying to make a joke about how excited the Bulls fans were, then I was trying to make you laugh, but then all of a sudden I'm going to.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  It was ejaculated, ejacula graded.

• 4:59Bill Simmons?

  I love it. As you know, I don't care.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 5:02Bill Simmons?

  The LeBron saga. Biggest loser in your opinion? I have a list. I have one, two, three, four, five, six, seven losers. Who is the biggest loser of the LeBron saga?

• 5:14Speaker 01

  It's close. It's close, but I'm going to say the Golden State Warriors and specifically.

• 5:20Bill Simmons?

  I had number one.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  See, this is why we, we wavelength. I mean.

• 5:24Bill Simmons?

  Steph Curry I had as my number one loser.

• 5:26Speaker 01

  It's Steph and, and ownership didn't help by coming out, you know, over the, the last handful of days and making a non-commit, a non-commitment. Like, are we putting Steph in NBA hospice? Is that what we're doing?

• 5:43Bill Simmons?

  It's his last chance for relevance and it's gone. I wrote down, it is the saddest older NBA superstar situation since 2011 Nash on the Suns and 2007 Garnett before he got traded to Boston. Of just guys now in purgatory who clearly have more to offer and it's not going to happen.

• 6:06Bill Simmons?

  There's a couple of pieces to this. One is, why didn't they trade for Jaylen Brown? They weren't interested in him. They weren't interested. They, they were like, they didn't even counter. That was one of, when the Celtics were canvassing the league, doing the Jaylen fire sale, which I'm going to talk about with my dad later. Warriors by all accounts, both sides, just not interested for Jimmy Butler's expiring and some picks. And the irony is if they do that, I think LeBron goes there. Right?

• 6:35Speaker 01

  I agree. I mean, the stories of LeBron playing golf with Draymond every single day in Los Angeles, those are true. And, and not only are, you know, from, uh, sources on the ground, our own Nathan Hubbard observed it with his own two eyes.

• 6:52Bill Simmons?

  Right. Right. So I, there's so many things I don't understand about that. One is like, who did the Warriors think they were going to get with Jimmy Butler's expiring and first round picks if it wasn't Anthony Davis or, or Jaylen Brown? And why are you so desperate just to waste the end of the, of the Steph era? You already did this. You held out on Wiseman and Kaminga too long.

• 7:15Speaker 01

  Right.

• 7:16Bill Simmons?

  Um, do they just think maybe Steph can't be the best guy in a championship team anymore? 22 can never happen again. So even stacking the deck, they have no chance against San Antonio and OKC?

• 7:28Speaker 01

  Isn't it, um, isn't he entitled to find out?

• 7:33Bill Simmons?

  Well, he's never, the best thing about him is he's like Duncan. He's never going to bitch about this.

• 7:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 7:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. He's just not, he's not going to be like, oh.

• 7:40Speaker 01

  On his behalf, we'll, we'll bitch on his behalf.

• 7:42Bill Simmons?

  I think it's outrageous. We saw it in the Olympics. Like this is somebody who should have more relevant basketball moments and it shouldn't be in a playing game. And I don't know what they're doing. I don't understand. Butler's not helping them this year. Even if he comes back, it's not like he can play 40 minutes a game. It's almost like they know they're going to get their money from Steph for the season tickets and the suites. They make the most revenue in the league. They make more revenue, I think, I think they make more than the Knicks do from their situation with the stadium and the tickets and everything. So I, it's, it's like they don't want to live the afterlife of, oh, we gave all this stuff away to have Steph have one last run and it didn't work out. I would have traded for Davis.

• 8:24Speaker 01

  Well, the only feasible and reasonable explanation is that they think that keeping their, their powder dry now gives them an opportunity once the season gets going. And, and we can do a ranking at some point. We are in these summer months of who are the top three or four guys that will be discontent and malcontent over the first third of the season that, that the Warriors can drop in.

• 8:47Bill Simmons?

  It's going to be a long list.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, no doubt.

• 8:50Bill Simmons?

  Well, but if you look at the conference odds on FanDuel, they are, let's see, San Antonio, Oklahoma City, Denver, Minnesota, Houston, Lakers, Golden State is seventh best odds to win the conference at 27 to one. And I honestly, I would book that bet right now with, because I don't, I don't think there are moves left. Is there like a, a Durin sign and trade move? I don't know. Anyway, I, Steph will never say it. And maybe he doesn't care. He won the four titles. He got his 22 title. He wants to end in the Bay Area. And you see it when, uh, when San Antonio made that run and Duncan's there and Manu and, you know, that like, when you go start to finish with a team like that, you're

• 9:34Bill Simmons?

  just there for your whole life. And maybe that's all he wants and doesn't care.

• 9:38Speaker 01

  Very fair.

• 9:40Bill Simmons?

  You know, it's not fair. Not fucking trading anything.

• 9:43Speaker 01

  You and I feel the same way.

• 9:44Bill Simmons?

  What would you, what would you have traded Davis for as a Wiz fan? What would have commanded your attention from Golden State?

• 9:52Speaker 01

  Yaxel and picks. I would have taken Yaxel in picks.

• 9:57Bill Simmons?

  So you would have taken the Butler expiring?

• 9:59Speaker 01

  You have to take the Butler expiring. That's the

• 10:02Bill Simmons?

  But you would have taken like

• 10:03Speaker 01

  requirement for the money.

• 10:03Bill Simmons?

  29, 31 and a 30 swap, something like that. No Yaxel.

• 10:09Speaker 01

  Hmm. I don't know.

• 10:11Bill Simmons?

  I mean, Anthony Davis doesn't really play basketball.

• 10:14Speaker 01

  The problem is you need a commitment from Jimmy Butler to do some mentoring. This team is super, this Washington team has a very rosy picture of the mentoring role.

• 10:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  That Davis is gonna play.

• 10:28Bill Simmons?

  We'll see.

• 10:29Speaker 01

  So.

• 10:29Bill Simmons?

  He's a good guy. Everybody likes him.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:32Bill Simmons?

  I thought trading for, uh, not trading for Jaylen was irresponsible. Um, my next loser was Jaylen Brown, who could have been the guy in Brooklyn or Milwaukee, could have gone to Golden State, could have gone to Charlotte, could have just stayed in Boston, but clearly was feeling it. And now he's the fourth option on the Sixers, trying to figure out how to be like, basically their do it all, big minutes. Okay, I'll take over these three minutes in the third quarter, but you know, the fourth scoring option on this team, basically, right?

• 11:05Speaker 01

  I, I, I

• 11:06Bill Simmons?

  You think this is good for him?

• 11:07Speaker 01

  I dramatically disagree with you.

• 11:09Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:10Bill Simmons?

  Maybe I'm just being spiteful.

• 11:11Speaker 01

  In any way, shape or form. I think you are. Um, in the first place, I think he's gonna get the extension that he wants. So that, that makes him a winner. I do.

• 11:21Bill Simmons?

  Oh, well, if he gets that, he's off the loser list. I don't, I would find that hard to press to think they're gonna pay him maxi and edge comb max contracts.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  Um, I, I think that's part of the calculus for, for bringing him in. But more importantly, in terms of the basketball proposition, I don't know that I really agree with the, this idea that he wanted to be the lead guy on a team. His expression of enthusiasm for the way that this particular Celtic, Celtic circumstance played out, to me, doesn't extrapolate into this is what he wants, uh, in his basketball career. It was a unique circumstance. He was really good. He played a great role in dragging a team that, that was forecast to be much

• 12:07Speaker 01

  worse into a, a, a superior position. And how fun is this that he's, that he's about to embark upon this situation in Philadelphia? They are the traveling road show. Everybody in America can't wait to see them. Hopefully.

• 12:24Bill Simmons?

  Good points.

• 12:25Speaker 01

  You know, LeBron and, and, and, uh, Embiid can play some games on the road for some of these, uh, high wattage matchups, but Jaylen Brown's

• 12:35Bill Simmons?

  You think he's gonna enjoy his 18.2 usage rate this year?

• 12:39Speaker 01

  It's fine. It doesn't matter. Winning is what matters.

• 12:42Bill Simmons?

  All right, I'm being spiteful.

• 12:43Speaker 01

  Relevant is what matters.

• 12:44Bill Simmons?

  All right. So let's make these guys the second biggest losers then. Miami, they got dick tees nice and harsh by LeBron and his camp.

• 12:51Speaker 01

  They really, yeah.

• 12:53Bill Simmons?

  They have, they had that eight and a half million, uh, spot burning a hole in their pocket. And now they're looking at Bradley Beal and DeMar DeRozan.

• 13:01Speaker 01

  Well, that's, those guys deserve eight and a half million. LeBron deserves 80 and a half million. But yeah, those, they, they, I almost said Miami as my number one, uh, biggest loser because they, there's nothing they can do. They're so fucked. Like they're, they, there is, uh, nothing in terms of assets, roster moves going forward. They just needed

• 13:23Bill Simmons?

  They just did it. They made all their moves.

• 13:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was it.

• 13:27Bill Simmons?

  Right now, so they're still seventh, 13 to one, seventh best odds to win the East.

• 13:33Speaker 01

  Um, that feels right.

• 13:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's interesting.

• 13:40Bill Simmons?

  I'd have Indiana over them too. Right now it's Knicks plus 320, all the way through Philly, Boston, Toronto, Detroit, Cleveland's 12 to one, Miami's 13 to one, Indiana's 14 to one.

• 13:52Speaker 01

  Okay. I mean, that's fair.

• 13:54Bill Simmons?

  Like, if I gave you a choice, bet on the conference finals, you can have Miami or Indiana. Are you ever taking Miami over Indiana?

• 14:00Speaker 01

  Under no circumstances. 0.0%.

• 14:03Bill Simmons?

  Would you take Orlando over Miami?

• 14:06Speaker 01

  No, no. You gotta see Franz Wagner play.

• 14:09Bill Simmons?

  Would you take Atlanta at 20 to one over Miami?

• 14:14Speaker 01

  At that price, I might. Cause Atlanta, Atlanta's not done. Atlanta is trying. They have done a really interesting job in terms of, of, you know, building a team. Um, and it feels like the ceiling is pretty high. 20 to one is kind of a good price in my opinion.

• 14:29Bill Simmons?

  It's not bad because they have room to do other stuff.

• 14:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, they have room to do stuff.

• 14:34Bill Simmons?

  I have to say at gunpoint right now, I would have Knicks, San Antonio, the rare finals rematch.

• 14:40Speaker 01

  Oh, how great would that be? That would be incredible.

• 14:43Bill Simmons?

  Somebody asked me that this weekend. Who do you think would, like, if you had to guess right now, what would the finals be? And I was like, I think it's, I think it's a run it back. Almost like Miami, San Antonio and 13 and 14.

• 14:56Speaker 01

  I'm gonna go on to FanDuel. They, they offer the final matchup market. It's probably not there yet, but I'm definitely

• 15:05Bill Simmons?

  I'll tell you what it is right now. Who do you want?

• 15:08Speaker 01

  Oh, uh, Philly and OKC.

• 15:11Bill Simmons?

  Philly and OKC?

• 15:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:14Bill Simmons?

  That would be 11 to one.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  Oh, no way. Nope. No chance. 0% chance of betting.

• 15:22Bill Simmons?

  Bad odds.

• 15:22Speaker 01

  No, thank you.

• 15:23Bill Simmons?

  Um, okay. Well, I didn't, Miami, um, forgot the part that it ended badly with LeBron there and he won two titles there. And, um, it became clearer and clearer that, uh,

• 15:40Bill Simmons?

  you know, he wants to win the title. That's why he did this.

• 15:44Speaker 01

  I, I admire it. Great job by him.

• 15:47Bill Simmons?

  It was a title chase pick and Philly had more to offer than Miami. My next loser is Philadelphia as a place to live. And this comes from Jeff in San Francisco, this email. Isn't LeBron choosing Philly and then immediately declaring the need that he'll be living in New York City, the ultimate pulling a pond, the pond is good for you moment, Caddishack? Uh, Philly is some of the proudest, dedicated fans in sports. I can't imagine this will sit well with them. I just wanted to read that email because Philly is definitely starting around. He doesn't even want to live there. He wants, he's gonna live in like New Jersey and New York. Settle down. Um, Golden State in general as a loser. Um,

• 16:31Bill Simmons?

  they have Butler coming back in March. They have KP and Horford as their center combo. I don't trust either guy.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 16:39Bill Simmons?

  Draymond opted out. Now they're gonna have to, you might just leave or they'll have to opt back in. And, uh, they have no actual point guard on their roster right now that I can find.

• 16:49Speaker 01

  You know who needs a backup center? The Sixers.

• 16:54Bill Simmons?

  Draymond?

• 16:54Speaker 01

  Who likes playing golf together? Draymond and LeBron.

• 16:57Bill Simmons?

  Draymond, he's not, he's still in the money accumulation mode.

• 17:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. Understandable. I'm just, just saying.

• 17:04Bill Simmons?

  I do wonder if there's a, if, if there's some sort of, uh, Jaylen Durin, Draymond, something.

• 17:15Bill Simmons?

  Cause he, you know, he went to college at Michigan.

• 17:19Bill Simmons?

  Would be fun on the Pistons, put them in the East. But, um, but yeah, the Golden State in general, I, here's my question. I know he doesn't want to get traded. I know he wants to retire there. Are there Curry trades you would entertain?

• 17:36Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Yes. I mean, I, I had this conversation last year. It was on the table last year, really as soon as Jimmy Butler got hurt. Why wouldn't Golden State? I understand all of the economic impact that goes well beyond, you know, just playing basketball games.

• 17:52Bill Simmons?

  Well, the tickets are paid for this year.

• 17:53Speaker 01

  Community. But yeah, I mean, that would, that's the most rational move, the most rational, the, the, the rational economic actor, the rational basketball franchise move is to trade Steph Curry. It's undeniable.

• 18:08Bill Simmons?

  If he's getting traded, is he going for a ring or is it just he goes home to Charlotte? I don't think he's ever getting traded, just for the record.

• 18:14Speaker 01

  I understand.

• 18:15Bill Simmons?

  But what would be the better? Who knows?

• 18:19Speaker 01

  I think he would want to play with a competitive team. It's not, I wouldn't call it ring chasing. I wouldn't, you know, impugn Steph Curry's motivations in that manner. He wants to play with a competitive team. The same way that LeBron's cho, choice was the most competitive team according, you know, and not Minnesota. That's all.

• 18:38Bill Simmons?

  Can I throw a, a scenario at you?

• 18:41Speaker 01

  I'm listening.

• 18:44Bill Simmons?

  It's not a ring chase.

• 18:48Bill Simmons?

  But what if San Antonio with Fox? And all of the picks they have? Just said, fuck it.

• 18:58Bill Simmons?

  And went to Golden State and were like, we'll do Fox. You put, you put the picks together or any way you want. For, for a couple of years of Steph here. And we're now, we're trying to acquire 2024 Olympic Steph. And he goes to San Antonio and tries to grab a couple more. It's pretty interesting.

• 19:19Speaker 01

  I mean, speaking of the traveling circus, it's already, San Antonio is already one of, you know, must see when they come to your town, you have to go see them. Hoping that Wemby's gonna play.

• 19:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, cuz people always say like, oh, they traded him back to Charlotte. He's not doing that. He's not winning anything in Charlotte. But with San Antonio, who has Atlanta's first round pick, they have a swap with Boston. They have swaps with Dallas or Minnesota in 2030. They have a 2030 swap with Sacramento and they have all their firsts and they have other stuff too. You know, I don't think they'd put Castle and Dylan Harper, those guys would not be on the table, but maybe Carter Bryant would be, I don't know.

• 19:59Speaker 01

  You think Sam Presti's working on a package right now?

• 20:03Bill Simmons?

  For?

• 20:03Speaker 01

  Think he has a Steph package? Like, just so you guys know, I have a package.

• 20:08Bill Simmons?

  Presti's on a heater. He's, he loaded Atlanta. He, um.

• 20:17Speaker 01

  He squeezed the shit out of Denver.

• 20:19Bill Simmons?

  Pick and then he squeezed Denver with that Spencer Jones thing. I love it.

• 20:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, he did.

• 20:22Bill Simmons?

  We've talked about that. I tweeted about this today. We talked about this forever. Why don't teams try to screw each other over? Right? Just go for Jaylen Durin, day one of free agency, just offer him four years, $230 million, whatever the max is, knowing that they're gonna match it anyway. Why not? You're competing against all these teams. You're trying to win a title. Couple more losers. Quick, Cleveland?

• 20:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:46Bill Simmons?

  Left at the altar by LeBron for the third time?

• 20:51Bill Simmons?

  I will always, for the rest of my life, think that his plan was to go there and

• 20:57Bill Simmons?

  and they, he was under the assumption, things would be able to change on the team before he got there. And nothing can change cuz they can't trade James Harden cuz they did a wink, wink deal with him. And nobody wanted the other guys. And he just wasn't playing for Dan Gilbert on the minimum.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 21:13Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. From a basketball standpoint, much better chance to win a title in Philly than I think Cleveland. Right? We agree on that.

• 21:20Speaker 01

  No doubt about that.

• 21:21Bill Simmons?

  I never liked the Cleveland fit. And then they'll.

• 21:23Speaker 01

  Brad, Brad Stevens hadn't given Jaylen Brown away at the very first moment. He could come up with it.

• 21:33Bill Simmons?

  Brad Stevens is a loser. I have him and I have the Celtics who basically traded Philly, Jaylen Brown and LeBron James for Paul George and two firsts.

• 21:42Speaker 01

  That's what he did.

• 21:43Bill Simmons?

  Tough trade.

• 21:45Speaker 01

  LeBron to Cleveland makes more sense because Cleveland was in Eastern Conference Final last year. And then the, the narrative plays out a little bit better. Jaylen Brown F'd the whole thing up.

• 22:00Bill Simmons?

  I have a couple of Celtics fans in my life who saw the Odyssey and think the Jaylen Brown Philly trade has Trojan horse potential.

• 22:08Bill Simmons?

  Here's our gift. It's Jaylen Brown.

• 22:11Speaker 01

  Good.

• 22:11Bill Simmons?

  And then you'll get LeBron too. Listen, we're grasping for straws here.

• 22:15Speaker 01

  Keep enjoying those edibles.

• 22:16Bill Simmons?

  Last loser I have is the Lakers. This is an email from Peter in Orange County, California. Hi, Bill. You've spent a material amount of your professional capital fairly and unfairly dunking on the Lakers. Not untrue. The Lakers tossed you a Carmelina's meatball and you didn't even swing. LeBron signing for $4 million a year with the Sixers is an enormous fail for the Lakers. When are we supposed to see the Mark Walters effect? This feels like a continuation of the bus kids and their delusional ineptitude. From Peter in Orange County. It is interesting. It does make you think like,

• 22:52Bill Simmons?

  could they have played this LeBron thing better? Or, which would be my theory, they clearly wanted it to end. Right? It feels like from January, February, they were like, you know what? We're good with this whole LeBron thing. We've kinda had it.

• 23:09Bill Simmons?

  But they could have had Walker Kessler and Reeves and LeBron.

• 23:13Speaker 01

  And to be fair, like LeBron did deliver a playoff series win for the franchise as his parting gift. Like, it's not a small thing that they beat Houston.

• 23:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 23:26Speaker 01

  With, with just F'ing LeBron. I mean, it's stunning. It's a real indictment of Houston.

• 23:31Bill Simmons?

  It was a real indictment of Houston.

• 23:32Speaker 01

  No KD, but.

• 23:33Bill Simmons?

  I, it's funny. I didn't see any of those games being replayed on NBA TV. It's like, oh, it's game three, Houston Lakers. Oh, sit down.

• 23:43Speaker 01

  It's just rock fight. Did you watch the WNBA All-Star game last night?

• 23:48Bill Simmons?

  That, I saw the video. That was a rock fight. The, uh, I do wonder if there's a what if with that though, if, if the Rockets just win that series, does LeBron

• 24:00Bill Simmons?

  even say that's it? Maybe I don't have anything left to offer. I do think that gave him the idea that he could, uh, maybe be a bigger part of a championship team.

• 24:10Speaker 01

  It felt like to me, no matter what, he was going east. As he, taking in all the circumstances of the way that these playoffs played out.

• 24:18Bill Simmons?

  I forgot to give you your victory lap.

• 24:21Speaker 01

  On what?

• 24:21Bill Simmons?

  You said on the podcast last week, you said he was going to Philadelphia and I mocked you and made fun of you and I, and we bet dinner.

• 24:28Speaker 01

  Well, the victory lap is dinner. And this is the funniest thing. I didn't get a chance to, to text our good buddies, Chang and Nathan. But you know where we're going.

• 24:38Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 24:41Speaker 01

  We're going back to capo.

• 24:44Speaker 01

  That's the dinner, motherfucker.

• 24:48Bill Simmons?

  Oh, my God. I'm gonna have to increase my credit card limit.

• 24:54Bill Simmons?

  That's hilarious.

• 24:55Speaker 01

  A lot of rigor NBA people, by the way. J. Kyle Man had it in early July. Even Raheem the Dream. Raheem the Dream had a dream. Raheem the Dream was driving his car and had a vision.

• 25:06Speaker 01

  Both of those preceded me coming on your show and saying that I thought I was gonna go to Philly. But I'm the only one that, that bet with you. So we're gonna have a great dinner.

• 25:14Bill Simmons?

  I, uh, I wish I had thought of the whole, he could live not in Philly and play in Philly piece. That would have at least, cuz I was just, no way. Philly, get the fuck out of here. But he's clearly gonna live in New York and then have some, I don't know, some nice condo in the Philly Ritz or wherever and he'll can stay there some nights or live in New York, but.

• 25:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. The other element of that, super short flight down to West Palm. So there is magnificent golf in, in Philly, New Jersey and New York. Of course, it gets to be cold and then there isn't golf. But jumping in the PJ and going down to West Palm and then knocking out all the bangers that are down there.

• 25:55Bill Simmons?

  Or you go to Charlotte.

• 25:56Speaker 01

  G Grove. He could go to Charlotte. Right. Anyway, he go to Georgia. Yeah. Tremendous golf, short PJ ride away, straight down the East Coast.

• 26:04Bill Simmons?

  I have a mailbag. There's a lot of LeBron questions. So I wanna take a break.

• 26:08Speaker 01

  Let's go.

• 26:08Bill Simmons?

  And then we're gonna do a really fun mail.

• 26:11Speaker 02

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration blog, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies. 18 plus.

• 26:39Speaker 03

  Stay cozy and look cool with up to 60% off cold weather gear at Nordstrom Rack. Save on cashmere, outerwear, boots and more from brands like Ugg, Vince, Kohan and Hunter. Join the Nordy Club for free to unlock exclusive discounts, shop clearance and new arrivals first and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite Rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you Rack.

• 27:05Bill Simmons?

  All right, mailbag time. Thanks to everybody who sends in questions. I truly appreciate it. It is bs podcast 33 at gmail.com. First one comes from Martin. He asked, like you, I wanna see LeBron in Golden State, but it seems like he realized he couldn't win a ring there without staying tied with Steph.

• 27:24Bill Simmons?

  Any chance that was a disincentive to go there? This is something I heard for the last month about LeBron not wanting to go to Steph's team, Steph's city.

• 27:35Bill Simmons?

  And now anytime I mention the expendables, people always poo-pooed it cuz of that. I think he was gonna go and he, the more we learned about this, he was going to the team that gave him his best chance to win the NBA title and there was no other reason.

• 27:48Speaker 01

  I agree with that. I don't think that this notion of going to Steph's team was a disincentive. I think the idea of, of him coming, those two guys joining forces, what a magnificent story. I don't think that he thinks about, you know, that, that it would be a coattails kinda situation.

• 28:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. So the three best teams in the league didn't want him. Oklahoma City, San Antonio, New York, right? So those three are out. He's never going to Boston. He hates Boston. He's not going to Detroit. So there's five teams. He decided he couldn't win in Miami. They're out. That leaves Cleveland, Minnesota, Philly, Golden State. Minnesota's too cold. He's not going there. They're out. Cleveland can't trade Harden. He's not playing on minimum for Dan Gilbert. They're out. Golden State won't trade for AD and didn't trade for Jaylen Brown. So from a pure, I wanna win the title, Philly was the move.

• 28:40Speaker 01

  Agreed.

• 28:41Bill Simmons?

  Of course, I realize that now. I could have realized that five days ago.

• 28:46Bill Simmons?

  The fifth title? This, does this? He took some ring chase abuse. I don't think it was fair because I think he loves playing basketball. I think a ring chase would have been going to San Antonio.

• 28:58Speaker 01

  Sure, agreed.

• 28:59Bill Simmons?

  That's a ring chase.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  Or Oklahoma City.

• 29:01Bill Simmons?

  Those are the two ring chase teams.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  Or the Knicks. He could have gone to the Knicks at the price he agreed to go to Philly.

• 29:07Bill Simmons?

  He's not doing that. The Knicks fans would be like, dude, we won't without you and we could have come here 10 times.

• 29:12Speaker 01

  No, it is a different Knicks team and we'll have the opportunity to talk this through. The impact of Mitchell Robinson not being on that team is it's not immaterial. It is material and they don't have an answer yet. They, I, you know, sort of trust, I implicitly.

• 29:30Bill Simmons?

  Did they get Drummond? They got Drummond, right?

• 29:33Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 29:35Bill Simmons?

  I mean, and they have a lot of bodies, my point.

• 29:37Speaker 01

  He doesn't lead, lead the NBA in offensive rebounding rate.

• 29:40Bill Simmons?

  This happened with the Celtics when we lost Posey. And even though it was probably the right move, he signed like a five-year deal with New Orleans and, and I think was good for maybe another year and a half. And then his career kind of died. But we, we had a much better chance in 09 if we had Posey, right? You have to make these decisions money-wise and.

• 30:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:02Bill Simmons?

  It's second apron or not. Next question's from Rob. It's a Steph-related one. He asked for a conspiracy bill. Conspiracy Bill has had a great summer. A lot of people checking in with him. What if LeBron was secretly being a double agent to the Warriors to keep Steph stuck at four rings while he chases his fifth?

• 30:23Bill Simmons?

  Conspiracy Bill looked at this one. I, I don't think, I don't think LeBron's measuring himself against Steph with rings or any of that stuff. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna, uh,

• 30:34Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna, I'm gonna pass on that one. Um, I got another email. Oh, I accidentally deleted. I'm sorry I deleted. The person who sent this was asking if LeBron could win the assist title on Philly. So my bad for not giving you credit.

• 30:53Speaker 01

  It's a great question.

• 30:54Bill Simmons?

  Um,

• 30:56Bill Simmons?

  I forgot this because I forgot everything that happened in 2020 because I don't remember one thing that happened that year. He won the assist title in 2020. Do you remember this?

• 31:04Speaker 01

  I did not remember that.

• 31:05Bill Simmons?

  He had 10.2 assists a game on the Lakers team that won the title.

• 31:09Speaker 01

  Phenomenal.

• 31:09Bill Simmons?

  Won the assist title and it wasn't by like, you know, an inch. He won by like, the next guy was like 9.3. So our leaders that year, this sent me down a rabbit hole. The 2020 leaders, James Harden, 34.3 points a game was the points leader.

• 31:28Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 31:29Bill Simmons?

  Andre Drummond, 15.2 rebounds a game rebounds.

• 31:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, believable.

• 31:35Bill Simmons?

  LeBron in assists. Hassan Whiteside in blocks, 2.9. George Hill, 46 points, uh, 46 percentage for threes, 46.0.

• 31:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:49Bill Simmons?

  Can you guess who led the league in steals in 2020?

• 31:54Bill Simmons?

  You're not going to be able to, so I'll give you the answer.

• 31:56Speaker 01

  No. Jimmy Butler.

• 31:58Bill Simmons?

  Ben Simmons.

• 31:59Speaker 01

  Oh, amazing.

• 32:03Bill Simmons?

  So I tried to figure out that was the weirdest combination of people that ever led the league in the major categories. Don't ask why, but I went through basketball reference. I went through everybody and I landed on 1978.

• 32:16Speaker 01

  Does that count?

• 32:17Bill Simmons?

  I knew you would like this.

• 32:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's some bullets involved.

• 32:20Bill Simmons?

  The only normal one was George Gervin, 27.2 points a game, won the scoring title. Made sense. He won like five or six scoring titles. Our rebounding leader was Truck Robinson at 15.2. Leonard Truck Robinson.

• 32:32Speaker 01

  Good job, Truck.

• 32:33Bill Simmons?

  Assists, Kevin Porter, former Bullet, 10.2.

• 32:38Bill Simmons?

  Ron Lee led the league in steals, 2.7, and George Johnson was our block leader at 3.4. So if you're going to make a starting five of points, steals, rebounds, assists and blocks, and you make the weirdest starting five possible, it's 1978. George Gervin, Truck Robinson, Kevin Porter, Ron Lee and George Johnson. Is that even like a 35-win team?

• 33:00Speaker 01

  What was that? Yeah, what was that 82-0 game or whatever?

• 33:03Bill Simmons?

  The 82-0 game, yeah, that had a fun run.

• 33:04Speaker 01

  Put those guys in that thing. Let's see how many games they win.

• 33:07Bill Simmons?

  Who wins the series with them or Drummond, Ben Simmons, LeBron, Whiteside and James Harden? They win in four.

• 33:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure, that's a sweep.

• 33:16Bill Simmons?

  Nobody's beating 1970.

• 33:18Speaker 01

  2020 sweeps it, yeah.

• 33:20Bill Simmons?

  All right, this is one of the best questions I've got all year from Leo in Seattle. I hope you get a basketball team soon, Leo. Who do you think will play more games for the 76ers franchise from this point today going forward? LeBron James or Joel Embiid? So from right now going forward, he says, let's say LeBron plays 100 regular season games and 16 playoff games over the next two years. Will Embiid surpass 116? Not just for the next two years, but for the rest of his Sixers career.

• 33:52Speaker 01

  This is amazing.

• 33:53Bill Simmons?

  So Embiid's last three years, 39 regular season, six playoffs and 24, 19 total and 25, 38 and 7 last year. Put 109 total last three. So let's be generous and say 45 regular season. They play the same amount of playoff games. LeBron's going to be 57 of 60?

• 34:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's why he can't win the assist title, by the way. He's not going to play enough games.

• 34:24Bill Simmons?

  Isn't it 55 for the assist title?

• 34:26Speaker 01

  Oh, is it that low? Well, even if it's 55, I don't think LeBron's playing 55.

• 34:32Bill Simmons?

  So who do you have?

• 34:34Speaker 01

  That's amazing.

• 34:35Bill Simmons?

  Rest of their career on the Sixers. Also includes one of the guys could get traded. Joel could get traded to your team tomorrow.

• 34:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, yes.

• 34:43Bill Simmons?

  I think I would take LeBron.

• 34:44Speaker 01

  I'm going to take LeBron. I am going to take LeBron. It makes a lot of sense for Philly to have eyes and ears open to Embiid trade deals. It, I, it really hurts me to say, but I listened to you with Zach and then I listened to Zach with Washington and CR, huh?

• 35:01Bill Simmons?

  With the Washington?

• 35:03Speaker 01

  There, there is a, a type of logic to it. Uh, again, it will not be before Christmas of this upcoming season. Cause Washington wants Anthony Davis to, to play.

• 35:15Bill Simmons?

  See, I disagree. I think if it, if it happens, it has to happen now because if Embiid's playing and playing well, they're not going to trade him. And if Embiid gets hurt again, they won't be able to trade him. But right now we're in this kind of no man's land with it where it's like, well, you'd look pretty good in the playoffs for a week.

• 35:31Speaker 01

  Well, then it's not going to be Washington, that's all.

• 35:33Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 35:33Speaker 01

  It'll have to be for somebody else.

• 35:34Bill Simmons?

  So you wouldn't take Embiid? And all the rest of their picks and phylon, whatever they have left for picks and phylon and some swaps and for Davis, it's not enough?

• 35:48Speaker 01

  It's not up to me, first of all, because I might countenance that. But really, I really, I have my head around the idea of AD as mentor.

• 35:57Bill Simmons?

  I love it.

• 35:57Speaker 01

  Him flying out to Vegas, I, I believe.

• 35:59Bill Simmons?

  I love that you have talked yourself into AD, somebody you've made fun of over and over again for not being able to stay healthy. You.

• 36:09Speaker 01

  Or Joel Embiid.

• 36:09Bill Simmons?

  I just forgot.

• 36:10Speaker 01

  Or Joel Embiid, which one?

• 36:13Bill Simmons?

  You sent me a picture once and I probably still have it of when they announced the NBA 75 and Anthony Davis made it. And you were so upset, you ate like five Reese's Pieces bars. And you sent me a picture of all the wrappers. And you said, I'm so upset, I just ate off his chocolate bars. And now he's on your team.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, that, those are two different deals. He could be a great mentor to Alexander Sarr not being the top 75.

• 36:39Bill Simmons?

  He's going to be a mentor for Ice Packs.

• 36:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:43Bill Simmons?

  Oscar from Kansas City had an Embiid, uh, LeBron question. He said, uh, LeBron joining the Sixers feels a lot like Tom Brady going to Tampa. An all-time legend signing with a completely new team. Uh, 2020 Bucks were loaded, ready to contend. Brady brought them the leadership experience, made them champs. Do you think this is a valid comp? I've seen this online, a bunch of people mentioned it. I completely disagree and I think it's insulting to Brady.

• 37:07Speaker 01

  Wow, okay.

• 37:09Bill Simmons?

  Brady. So I went back and I looked at my 2020 NFL prep for that year. Brady had the third best MVP odds for that year. He had just been the best guy on a Super Bowl team two years before. They're over under, people weren't a believer in the supporting cast. They're over under for wins. It was a 16-game season, was eight and a half. They're plus 160 for their division, 10-1 conference, 12-1 Super Bowl, minus 210 to make the playoffs. They went 11-5. They were underdogs in the last three playoff games. He won Super Bowl MVP. He won the MVP of the entire fucking league the following season. LeBron's not doing any of that.

• 37:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So that's why it's not a perfect comp.

• 37:50Bill Simmons?

  I have a better one.

• 37:51Speaker 01

  Okay, I'm listening.

• 37:55Bill Simmons?

  Well, another one I thought of was Brett Favre on the 2009 Vikes.

• 38:01Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 38:02Bill Simmons?

  But they went 12 and 4 with him.

• 38:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 38:05Bill Simmons?

  And they, he throws the interception in the Saints, the bounty gate. He's probably got nine concussions in the same game. He was fourth MVP last year. That's not happened with LeBron either. So that's not a good one. Let me give you Montana and the Chiefs.

• 38:20Speaker 01

  Oh, wow. Way back machine.

• 38:23Bill Simmons?

  Goes there 93. They have Marcus Allen, who ends up sixth MVP that year. They have Neil Smith and Derrick Thomas, who were two of the best defensive players in the league. They had a really good team. And he was like the last piece. 10 to 1 Super Bowl odds that year. They go 8 and 3 with them and he gets hurt.

• 38:41Bill Simmons?

  They make the AFC title game anyway with Dave Craig and they lose to Buffalo. And then the next year, they go 9 and 7, lose to Miami in a wild card game. But to me, it feels like Montana Chiefs.

• 38:52Speaker 01

  That's pretty good. I like that one.

• 38:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. He's like, he's like the last piece. He's not the piece. You know what I mean?

• 38:58Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 39:01Bill Simmons?

  Rob from Perth, Australia.

• 39:03Speaker 01

  Oh, love Perth, Australia.

• 39:04Bill Simmons?

  I like the Australian emails. Are the Sixers now an overbooked WrestleMania match? Down by 10 in the third, hit LeBron's music. He comes running down, sharing hand to whack Brunson in the back. Oh, the Knicks are back in it. He gouges JB's eyes. Hit him, Bead's music. It is funny. Like, they do have a, an embarrassment of guys who can take over a game and make something fun happen.

• 39:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:26Bill Simmons?

  I like that.

• 39:28Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 39:28Bill Simmons?

  I like the concept of that.

• 39:31Bill Simmons?

  All right, this is a multi-part question. This first one's from Nate from Richmond.

• 39:37Bill Simmons?

  Listen to the Fight Club Rewatchables featuring me and CR. And realize that the Tyler Durden split personality is reminiscent of how you talk about Conspiracy Bill. When someone invokes Conspiracy Bill in a mailbag, you act like he's a completely different person with his own agency and beliefs. He acts on his own accord and proposes ideas regular Bill would not. I wanted to find that you and Conspiracy Bill are the same person before he enacts his own version of Project Mayhem. That is true. When I become Conspiracy Bill, I move, it's like Mr. Miyagi. And Mr. Miyagi would talk about himself in third person.

• 40:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:11Bill Simmons?

  He becomes a different person.

• 40:12Speaker 01

  Different person.

• 40:14Bill Simmons?

  Well, Tim asks for Conspiracy Bill's take. Winning the vote in Ohio, Florida, California, and Pennsylvania with Net LeBron, 120 of the 270 electoral votes. Is LeBron gearing up for a presidential run in '28? I mean, Pennsylvania would get him there. 120, still feels like he needs some work.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  Well, now Governor Shapiro is taking some credit, by the way. Governor Shapiro said he was lobbying to get LeBron there. Governor Shapiro wants a victory lap.

• 40:43Bill Simmons?

  Should we pour him a little settled down juice? You think he was the one, the one swinging this one?

• 40:49Speaker 01

  He tipped it. He called.

• 40:50Bill Simmons?

  They were like, hey, Governor Shapiro had an amazing idea that we should go after LeBron James with our free, with our free agent buddy. All right, now we really need Conspiracy Bill for this next one. From Mike from New Orleans. Can I get Conspiracy Bill's take on this new Blazers owner? The league wants to get back to Seattle. The expansion buy-in can be that much greater if the new owner knows they don't have to share the Pacific Northwest market with the Portland Trail Blazers. This new Blazers owner seems to be following the playbook. Owners take. When they want to make their teams, take their teams out of town and then blame the fans for making them do it. Cutting costs, going to war with the community, saying he needs taxpayers to give him a new arena.

• 41:37Bill Simmons?

  Where have we seen this before? Oklahoma City? We did the Sonic Boom podcast about that. Maybe he takes the team to Vegas. Maybe we get one expansion team instead of two and Seattle rejoins the NBA.

• 41:50Bill Simmons?

  This did get Conspiracy Bill's attention. I've been on this Portland thing. I had a guest scheduled in mid-June. I was gonna, I was immediately fascinated by what was going on. And then had to bump because there was so much basketball going on. So maybe I'll have that person on, on the next pod, but it, there's been a lot of like, huh, hmm. Where it just feels very familiar to the OKC situation. And antagonistic unnecessarily.

• 42:19Speaker 01

  That's the word. That's literally the word. Like, he, he arrives, the paperwork is, the ink is barely dry. And it is one fuck you after another.

• 42:30Bill Simmons?

  From the moment he got there.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  To the good people of Portland. Like disrespect after disrespect after disrespect.

• 42:38Bill Simmons?

  Do you blame Adam and the, and the league for, you bring, because this is very similar. I'm gonna criticize Stern 20 years ago, which I did over and over again. I have to criticize Adam for this. They bring in the OKC group to buy the team from Howard Schultz. And they were like, no, we want to keep the team here. And the moment they got it, they're trying to get it out of there. And Stern was complicit. It's hard not to think

• 43:04Bill Simmons?

  Silver had no idea this was a possibility when the team didn't have a lease.

• 43:09Bill Simmons?

  You know, they didn't, they didn't have a lease in three years.

• 43:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I, I think that the league was fully aware of the circumstances of, of Portland and the relationship with that state and the city and the community. And it sure does feel expendable because we haven't seen one thing come down from the league.

• 43:29Bill Simmons?

  This feels like it's beyond posturing and gamesmanship and feels very fuck you-ish now.

• 43:36Speaker 01

  I really agree with this.

• 43:37Bill Simmons?

  And also, I've said this, I said this on the last pod, I'll continue to say this. I don't think the city should have to pay for jack shit.

• 43:44Speaker 01

  You, you know, I agree with that as well.

• 43:45Bill Simmons?

  It's bullshit. These guys are all fucking rich. Build your own stadium.

• 43:52Bill Simmons?

  What are you doing? Why are you making Portland's? By the way, that, I can't say the city of Portland's been doing that great the last 10 years. Like, the last thing they need to do is send money toward a basketball arena.

• 44:04Speaker 01

  The people of Portland agree with you.

• 44:06Bill Simmons?

  This is where if I was sports, our, one of my rules would be if you win a title, you can never leave the city. So you'd be protected forever with Washington. You win, you're there for life. Unless the people vote you out, but.

• 44:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:20Bill Simmons?

  So Conspiracy Bill.

• 44:24Bill Simmons?

  This would be, this would raise the price of the Seattle team if Portland was moving out. And we only had one team in this whole corner of the world. Because I think they've had an easier time getting the Vegas money than the Seattle money.

• 44:40Speaker 01

  Well, it's, what do you mean raise the price? He's not paying expansion.

• 44:44Bill Simmons?

  I'm not talking about for him. I'm talking about for the Seattle expansion. But I'm buying the Seattle team. And I know I'm the only game in town now.

• 44:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:53Bill Simmons?

  In Pacific Northwest, because this guy's blowtorching his Portland relationship.

• 44:56Speaker 01

  Right.

• 44:58Bill Simmons?

  I like the Blazers fans. This is brutal what's happening.

• 45:00Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 45:01Bill Simmons?

  And I don't know why Adam's not saying anything about it either.

• 45:04Speaker 01

  It is such a breach of that social contract between the franchise. When you're the only franchise in town and, and the civic pride that comes from that.

• 45:12Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 45:12Speaker 01

  And when you let somebody walk in and just take a shit on decades of that, that commitment by that community to that team, that's a bad look, bro. And I, I mean, look, the, the track record here of, of what the league has done in admitting new owners. These fucking people down in Dallas, what they did, uh, and, and we're right on the heels of that. And this guy's gonna come in and, and light Portland on fire? Fuck off.

• 45:38Bill Simmons?

  I really appreciate you not bringing the Celtics owner up there. Because I like him. But he could have, in the wrong hands, he could have been thrown into that, uh, that conversation.

• 45:51Bill Simmons?

  Just traded Jaylen Brown for.

• 45:52Speaker 01

  Let's give it some time. They won 56 games last year at least. They didn't.

• 45:56Bill Simmons?

  No, I, this guy, so it's funny because some of the stuff he's doing. I said this to Zach on, uh, on Friday. Some of the stuff he's doing, I actually, you know, like, do we need 20 assistant coaches? Do we need to? Do we need the overboard stuff? Like, he's cutting costs and where it's like, all right, I can see his point there. But this is, he's, like, he just gutted all the broadcast teams. He, he gutted the head coach. He has a, a coach on a one-year deal. Nobody's ever done that before.

• 46:27Speaker 01

  I think that's shameful. I think what he did to Mike Anori was shameful. Now, I, I mean, a million times out of a million times, Micah should say, yes, I do want to be the, the head coach. It's one, it's, there's 30 jobs. And now his, is.

• 46:40Bill Simmons?

  Just do a two-year deal. Why, like, why is it a one-year deal? There's some, there's some line between whatever happened with Mike Budenholzer in Phoenix. Right? Where he's one year and out and he's just gone, but gets paid for four. And this Mike Anori only being, I don't know. Uh, I am going to, uh, my pledge to the people of Portland. I was, I tried to be an asset for Seattle and it didn't work and the team moved in '07 and '08. Um, I, I promise to

• 47:10Bill Simmons?

  use this podcast to shine a bigger spotlight on this situation. Over the course of the summer. Yeah, this is bullshit.

• 47:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:18Bill Simmons?

  They won the 77 title and the 50th anniversary is coming up. And that's all that city should be talking about. They shouldn't be worried about this fucking guy.

• 47:26Bill Simmons?

  Okay. Mitchell Sherwood from Indianapolis. Oh, this is a good question. Actually, let's take a break. This is such a good question.

• 47:35Speaker 02

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web. Like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration blog, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up require compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 48:02Speaker 03

  Stay cozy and look cool with up to 60% off cold weather gear at Nordstrom Rack. Save on cashmere, outerwear, boots, and more from brands like Ugg, Vince, Kohan, and Hunter. Join the Nordy Club for free to unlock exclusive discounts, shop clearance and new arrivals first, and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite Rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you Rack.

• 48:29Bill Simmons?

  God damn, this is a good question from Mitchell Sherwood in Indianapolis, Indiana. What would be the best LeBron Sixers comp?

• 48:38Bill Simmons?

  In 1999? If Michael Jordan's Bulls imploded like they did?

• 48:45Bill Simmons?

  But he decided he didn't want to stop playing and he wanted to find basketball happiness somewhere else. Would it have been the 1999 Spurs with Duncan as Maxey and Robinson as Embiid? The answer is no.

• 48:59Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 48:59Bill Simmons?

  I did do the research.

• 49:02Bill Simmons?

  There's a really obvious pick.

• 49:06Bill Simmons?

  Any guesses?

• 49:07Speaker 01

  No, I'm not gonna. The Knicks, that would be, that would be my guess.

• 49:10Bill Simmons?

  Knicks would have been a good guess. Uh, the 1999 Lakers.

• 49:14Speaker 01

  Okay, remind me.

• 49:16Bill Simmons?

  Shaq in year six. Kobe in year three. They had on the roster to start the year, Robert Horry, Eddie Jones, Rick Fox, and young Derek Fisher.

• 49:26Speaker 01

  It's a pretty good team.

• 49:27Bill Simmons?

  It was the strike season. They rolled the dice with Dennis Rodman, complete disaster.

• 49:32Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 49:32Bill Simmons?

  Midseason, they traded Eddie Jones, Eldon Campbell for Glenn Rice and J R Reid.

• 49:38Bill Simmons?

  They also fired Del Harris after 12 games.

• 49:41Speaker 01

  That's right, they did do that.

• 49:43Bill Simmons?

  Really not a great coach. Uh, they end up with Kurt Rambis, an even worse coach.

• 49:50Bill Simmons?

  They make the playoffs, they beat an old Houston team that had Pippen and Barkley and Hakeem on it. They beat them in round one. Round two swept, sent home packing by the San Antonio Spurs. Duncan, 29-11. So that team could have been Shaq, MJ, Kobe, Rice, and Robert Horry as your starting five. And MJ ring chasing for a seven.

• 50:09Speaker 01

  That's pretty good. They would, who would they, they need a coach though, because MJ would not come.

• 50:13Bill Simmons?

  Phil Jackson comes back if MJ is back in, right?

• 50:16Speaker 01

  There we go, there we go.

• 50:17Bill Simmons?

  He's like, I'm thinking about signing with the Lakers and Phil Jackson's like, I'm in.

• 50:22Speaker 01

  Speaking of ring chasing.

• 50:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Would you have held that against Jordan? I mean, the Bulls were basically like, we don't want, we don't want you anymore.

• 50:28Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no. He, he, more than anybody in, in, you know, modern basketball, had the perfect out to go to a different team and try and, and compete. I mean, what the Bulls did was shameful.

• 50:40Bill Simmons?

  I did a piece about this, the first summer of the Ringer, which was 10 years ago, I wrote a whole piece about how Michael Jordan didn't necessarily want to retire when he retired.

• 50:49Speaker 01

  It's a great point. I agree.

• 50:50Bill Simmons?

  And part of it was the Bulls imploded, they didn't want him back and he didn't really know what to do. Pippen wanted money, so he left immediately. He didn't really have a team to go to. But then the other thing was he sliced his finger on the cigar cutter. So he would have been out till March, there was a lockout and it just, it just ended up not happening.

• 51:12Bill Simmons?

  That Lakers team would have beaten the Spurs.

• 51:14Speaker 01

  That would have been something.

• 51:16Bill Simmons?

  Can you imagine? All of a sudden, that would have been the best series of all time. Oh my God.

• 51:22Speaker 01

  He was still, I mean,

• 51:25Speaker 01

  the whole thing ended up with him in Washington.

• 51:27Bill Simmons?

  Two years later, he took two years off.

• 51:29Speaker 01

  I know, I know, exactly.

• 51:32Bill Simmons?

  So yeah, I think it's the 99 Lakers is your answer. Then, uh, another LeBron question from Alex in Cincinnati was looking back at the rewatchables. We did those rewatchables. I'm gonna put those on the Book of Basketball podcast feed. But we did one about the 95 Bulls-Magic series. And one of my big points was everyone misremembers that series. The Bulls was actually, they were pretty good that year. They were better than I think people remember now. His case for LeBron was that 2018, when he was at his absolute peak, 34-99 in the playoffs, then has 51-8-8, game one of the finals. And people remember the JR Smith. He called it the JR Smith lobotomy play, which I think is a good.

• 52:14Speaker 01

  It's good.

• 52:15Bill Simmons?

  Good one for it. But his question is, if they win that game, could they have won the series?

• 52:22Bill Simmons?

  Which is something we've talked about, oh, that's talk, that would have been a much better finals. Did, could that play have actually changed LeBron's legacy? Cause if he beats the 18 Warriors by himself, he probably takes the goat thing from MJ.

• 52:37Speaker 01

  That would, all that would have done is turned that series into a 4-1 outcome.

• 52:42Bill Simmons?

  Oh, so I was thinking it goes to six. I think they win one in Cleveland, but I think it's a 2-3-2. I still think they lose in six, but I do think it makes the Warriors go. And that Warriors wasn't, they weren't the happiest team near the, down the stretch that year.

• 52:57Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 52:57Bill Simmons?

  Could that have unraveled them a whiff?

• 53:01Speaker 01

  Maybe. They're still, that was an incredible team.

• 53:04Bill Simmons?

  Great playoff for him.

• 53:06Bill Simmons?

  Eman from New York wants to know, what exactly will it take for Sixers LeBron to avoid becoming meme-able like Celtics Shaq or Wizards Jordan? Where the jersey looks weird and we don't remember it that fondly? And then Joseph sent an email, how far away is LeBron from his, okay, maybe I played one season too long season? So I'd like to combine those two together.

• 53:33Bill Simmons?

  I don't think it's this season.

• 53:36Bill Simmons?

  We are moving a little closer to the finish line. I was looking at it as per 36. And the numbers, I give you, as both of us have done, we look at these basketball references. And once it starts really going down near the end, it just keeps going. There's no like bounce back.

• 53:54Bill Simmons?

  In 22, per 36, he was 29-8-6. Last year, he was 23. The three point was 32%. All the other numbers, the, like his, you know, the, some of the advanced stuff, not quite as good, but it wasn't bad. Like it was in the ballpark where it should be. But if it goes lower than it did last year, then we'll be, we'll be off. My point is, I don't think it's, I don't think we're in 2011 Shaq Celtics. We're not even, we're two years away from that, I think.

• 54:25Speaker 01

  I agree. The most important element to, to answer this question is tell me how many games he's gonna play. Because I thought last year was masterful.

• 54:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 54:35Speaker 01

  The sciatica for the first, however many games that was.

• 54:39Bill Simmons?

  Yep.

• 54:39Speaker 01

  Was, was literally brilliant. And so they need to come up with the functional equivalent of that. Because it just, he needs cover to not play.

• 54:47Bill Simmons?

  His version of the Paul George suspension?

• 54:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 54:50Bill Simmons?

  Like he just goes away for 25 games from February, March and comes back, ramping up?

• 54:56Speaker 01

  That actually is kind of fun. That would be a, like, what could we invent for LeBron? What would LeBron's trans-?

• 55:01Bill Simmons?

  Well, he's old, having a back problem.

• 55:04Speaker 01

  Well, he just, that was the sciatica last year.

• 55:06Bill Simmons?

  Nobody blinks. If anyone over 40 tells me they have sciatica, I'm just, I don't, I trust it.

• 55:11Speaker 01

  And then, but the problem with that is he can't play golf. Does he really want to take three months off from playing golf or have a long two months off?

• 55:17Bill Simmons?

  How do you figure out the golf thing?

• 55:19Speaker 01

  That's a tough one. That's a tough one. You know what? He could wait until it's freezing cold on the East Coast and then just quietly, like go to play simulators. He loves the simulators and that, that could be it, you know?

• 55:35Bill Simmons?

  You might be the world's preeminent expert on LeBron's golf career.

• 55:39Speaker 01

  Oh no, he, I mean, I'm telling you, he's, there's the simulator thing. It's, it's coming. Wait till you see, it's gonna be amazing. But yeah, that would be one way. He can't be seen down at Apogee, down in West Palm, out on the, or, or at Grove 23 with MJ.

• 55:55Bill Simmons?

  Right. You can't, you can't be faking the injury, but then you're also playing 27.

• 56:00Speaker 01

  Can't do it. Can't do it.

• 56:01Bill Simmons?

  So Joseph's question, he talked about the, maybe I played one season too long and he had examples of Shaq at the end, Duncan at the end, Dirk at the end, the last three KG, the last two Paul Pierce, last six Vince Carter seasons, et cetera, et cetera. I want to step further. I did my one season too long team.

• 56:19Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 56:21Bill Simmons?

  Thought you'd enjoy this. Didn't prep you at all. So it wasn't just about I hung on too long and I played too many. This was like a specific, it had to be like the actual season itself made them realize, oh shit, maybe I shouldn't have done this. Hakeem going to Toronto in 2001 has to be the center.

• 56:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:41Bill Simmons?

  He could have played his whole career with Houston.

• 56:44Speaker 01

  Oh, I would prefer that.

• 56:44Bill Simmons?

  And just had that one last year. Like Ewing did it too, but Ewing bounced around. He was in Seattle or they hit him multiple ones. So that's my center. Pippen ended up on the 03 Bulls? After the Portland run, which I forgot?

• 56:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:59Bill Simmons?

  I kind of wish that didn't happen. I wish he had just ended with Portland. This is a good one. Elvin Hayes for the 1984 Houston, your guy, the Big E.

• 57:08Speaker 01

  He came home.

• 57:10Bill Simmons?

  He came home and he's having his last season where he's washed up, but then they're trying to tank. And he has the famous game where he plays all 48 minutes because they're trying to tank and they run him into the ground. So that he has to be on the team.

• 57:22Speaker 01

  I want a video of that. I want to watch that. I forgot. The 48 minutes is legendary.

• 57:26Bill Simmons?

  The whole game, never comes out. They're like, Elvin, stay out there. He's like having a heart attack. Allen Iverson, Grizzlies.

• 57:34Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, for sure.

• 57:35Bill Simmons?

  An all-timer. It just, that made everyone just sad.

• 57:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:40Bill Simmons?

  So that's one of my guards. And then I'll give you a choice for the other guard. I could give you Magic Johnson on the 96 Lakers when he came back and it was fun for a second, but then when we got to the playoffs and it just, the team was unhappy and it just was like, ah, why did this have to happen? Or I could give you Chris Paul this year, playing for the Clippers and having the birthday party and only having two Clippers show up.

• 58:03Speaker 01

  It's Chris Paul.

• 58:04Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 58:05Speaker 01

  By a long shot. I, I still, it is, that's a worse misstep by the Clippers organization than circumventing the salary cap to pay Kawhi.

• 58:17Bill Simmons?

  Allegedly.

• 58:18Speaker 01

  Allegedly.

• 58:19Bill Simmons?

  Still going on. I like the stuff about, uh, they're mad now that this has taken too long. I have one more for the, uh,

• 58:27Speaker 01

  They have a right to be mad. Go ahead.

• 58:29Bill Simmons?

  The best one season too long guy ever. I only did guys people have heard of. But the number one was George Mikan on the 1956 Lakers. Mikan retires. He's like the best basketball player of all time. He wins four titles. He retires when the shot clock comes, takes a year off and then comes back with the shot clock. And now we're playing faster. And by all accounts was a complete disaster. So I'm gonna add him on there too. Okay, couple more. Paul Peters. Was listening to, uh, me and CR talking about World Cup and England's baggage. And teams in baggage, teams coming in and basically fixing the baggage. And Paul says, we should call these guys baggage handlers.

• 59:13Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 59:13Bill Simmons?

  The baggage handlers, whole thing is say, fuck this baggage. And kick it away as far as you can. And he said, who are some of the first class baggage handlers? So I had, for Boston, we had three. We had Big Poppy, obviously.

• 59:26Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 59:27Bill Simmons?

  We had Tim Thomas, the goaltender for the Bruins in 2011, who just went on absolute all time heater. And then Bill Belichick. Some people would say Brady, but it was Bill Belichick was our baggage handler.

• 59:38Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 59:39Bill Simmons?

  Um.

• 59:40Speaker 01

  This is awesome. I love this concept.

• 59:42Bill Simmons?

  So all time baggage handlers. Across sports, I have Big Poppy, LeBron 2016.

• 59:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:51Bill Simmons?

  Jaylen Brunson, a couple of months ago, Mark Messay with the Rangers.

• 59:56Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 59:57Bill Simmons?

  And Johnny Padres on the 55 Dodgers. Two wins, game seven shutout. Flips it. They're just getting their ass kicked by the Yankees forever. And then finally flip it and he wins. So I had five. Who is your number one Washington baggage handler? Ovechkin?

• 1:00:13Speaker 01

  Wow. Um, probably Joe Gibbs. It took Ovechkin a long time. Now, you know, the Washington Capitals came into existence in 1974 and they won the Stanley Cup in 2018. With Ovechkin, you know, sort of three quarters of the way through his career.

• 1:00:29Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:29Speaker 01

  You know, he keeps playing. I think that the arrival of Joe Gibbs with that Washington, because that Washington franchise as, as it was a, you know, it was a little brother to the bully Dallas Cowboys. And the, that rivalry between Washington and Dallas. Joe Gibbs arrived and really changed the, that, that whole arc. Washington was dominant.

• 1:00:51Bill Simmons?

  How about on the Nats? You didn't really have a lot of baggage with the Nats.

• 1:00:56Speaker 01

  No, I mean, that.

• 1:00:57Bill Simmons?

  I guess they don't count.

• 1:00:58Speaker 01

  2005.

• 1:01:00Bill Simmons?

  15 years old. Joe Gibbs is a good one. Um, I have franchise cities most in need of a baggage handler.

• 1:01:08Bill Simmons?

  Buffalo Bills, Josh Allen. They've been throwing him in central casting for that for 10 years. Please be our baggage handler.

• 1:01:15Speaker 01

  Could it be Joe Brady?

• 1:01:17Bill Simmons?

  Joe Brady taking over as the baggage handler and ushering Josh Allen through Vikings.

• 1:01:23Speaker 01

  Doing our research now. I'm quietly bullish on, on the Bills. We're doing, I know we're doing our football research now.

• 1:01:31Bill Simmons?

  You're bullish on the, on the Bills?

• 1:01:33Speaker 01

  I'm bullish on the Bills.

• 1:01:34Bill Simmons?

  Cause the schedule?

• 1:01:35Speaker 01

  That's one element of it.

• 1:01:36Bill Simmons?

  Okay. Vikings, Lions, and then the number one team is weirdly the Maple Leafs.

• 1:01:42Speaker 01

  Oh yeah. Oh, wow.

• 1:01:43Bill Simmons?

  They really need a baggage handler.

• 1:01:44Speaker 01

  They need a baggage handler.

• 1:01:46Bill Simmons?

  Getting close and the Canucks have been there forever because they've never won. But really, and I'll pick a Canadian NHL team. They all need a baggage handler.

• 1:01:54Speaker 01

  That's true. Canadian hockey needs a baggage handler.

• 1:01:58Bill Simmons?

  KWT sent in, um, is Bill calling Telemachus from the Odyssey? Temeculus for my entire MVP pile draft. First pick in the pop culture speech dyslexia redraft.

• 1:02:12Bill Simmons?

  I did, I did call him Temeculus, the entire thing. I knew I was doing it. I couldn't remember what his name was. I wasn't going to look it up. But it was Telemachus. Listen, it's the Odyssey. We're gonna have, we're gonna have some mess ups. Uh, okay. Jeremy said Butler over Clay in the 2011 redraft. I know it was Zach's pick at number three, but you signed off on it. You're the guy who wrote an entire book about the secret. You're taking the poor man's version of Terrell Owens over the poor man's version of Bill Russell? Question mark. Bill Russell's a little strong.

• 1:02:41Speaker 01

  Poor man's Bill Russell.

• 1:02:43Bill Simmons?

  I would go.

• 1:02:43Speaker 01

  Clay Thompson?

• 1:02:44Bill Simmons?

  I would go Sam Jones, maybe. There. Not Bill Russell.

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  That'll down.

• 1:02:48Bill Simmons?

  So I had, when I did my rankings, when we were about to do it, because we do, you've done the redrafts, you rank your guys and then you hope you get them in the order.

• 1:02:57Bill Simmons?

  I did have Clay ahead of Butler and I, I kind of let Zach bully me on it. And now I feel like, I kind of had my pants pulled down a little bit. I regret it. I, I'm going to stick with having Clay above Butler. I'd rather have Clay.

• 1:03:10Speaker 01

  I, I mean.

• 1:03:11Bill Simmons?

  Better teammate, can fit in with anything. And Jimmy Butler flamed out in four franchises.

• 1:03:17Speaker 01

  He didn't flame out. He quit on a couple.

• 1:03:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:19Speaker 01

  He came in with giant middle fingers, giant middle fingers.

• 1:03:22Bill Simmons?

  Very intimidating.

• 1:03:24Speaker 01

  Well, did you see him throw out the first pitch at the Mets game?

• 1:03:27Bill Simmons?

  Zach? When did that happen?

• 1:03:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, yesterday. Zach Lowe.

• 1:03:30Bill Simmons?

  How did, was it a strike?

• 1:03:32Speaker 01

  Saturday game. Looked like a strike, a little high, but it was down the middle. I was proud.

• 1:03:36Bill Simmons?

  Okay, great.

• 1:03:37Speaker 01

  It was a good one.

• 1:03:38Bill Simmons?

  So it goes straight how much I'm not have been. Um.

• 1:03:43Bill Simmons?

  Tim Lane wants to know, he sent me a long text, but basically like, why wouldn't they do a sign and trade with Detroit and be for Durin? And Philly throws in a pick.

• 1:03:54Bill Simmons?

  I will say this. He said there'd have to be some other stuff. They'd have to cut somebody, but I will say this. Celtic fan Bill got terrified by this.

• 1:04:03Speaker 01

  I understand.

• 1:04:04Bill Simmons?

  Celtic fan Bill did not like this trade.

• 1:04:08Bill Simmons?

  Celtic fan Bill is counting on Joel Embiid to, uh, to do the same kind of up and down injury plague season that he always has.

• 1:04:16Speaker 01

  Durin is a, is a beast. I mean, you know, part of the allure, I've been talking about, uh, Jaylen Brown's magic elixir, the secret sauce is how much playing time he can consume, high level playing time.

• 1:04:29Bill Simmons?

  Minutes.

• 1:04:30Speaker 01

  Ooh, Durin could do that. Now, obviously the ceiling and what he's capable of and I, what we saw the playoffs, but under the tutelage and supervision of LeBron James, maybe that could be rehabilitated a little bit.

• 1:04:45Bill Simmons?

  I hope that doesn't.

• 1:04:45Speaker 01

  That's an interesting one.

• 1:04:47Bill Simmons?

  Rob said, I'm a fan of LeBron's decision to go to Philly. I was listening to your podcast with Zach about it. You mentioned Kawhi was the best player in the world in 2019. I think that's disingenuous. One summer before you said 2018 LeBron played the best game you've ever seen in person. So how could Kawhi have passed LeBron? Uh, the answer is he did.

• 1:05:05Bill Simmons?

  I don't know how to tell you. LeBron went to the Lakers and basically took the year off. Kawhi went to the Raptors and kicked everybody's ass and won the title. And it's the best part of the league at the end of the year. So that was, LeBron was in year 16 at that point. I mean, LeBron had been the best player in the league from basically the 08, 09 season, all the way through to the 17, 18 season. He'd been the best player for 10 years in a row. And even when Curry won the MVP, everybody kind of is like, LeBron's still the best player. Curry's the MVP.

• 1:05:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:38Bill Simmons?

  Um, 2011 redraft, Colin from Connecticut wants to point out, we, we missed this. Corey Joseph went 29 to the Spurs, one pick ahead of Jimmy Butler. The Spurs had just won 61 games. They could add Kawhi Leonard and Jimmy Butler.

• 1:05:53Speaker 01

  Wow. That's a wow.

• 1:05:58Bill Simmons?

  Spurs culture and Jimmy Butler are not positive about this one, but.

• 1:06:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:03Bill Simmons?

  But maybe they could have gotten him in early and gotten some good habits into him.

• 1:06:07Speaker 01

  They could have. I bet they could have.

• 1:06:09Bill Simmons?

  That's, that completely changes the next three playoffs. I mean, maybe he doesn't play in 2012 playoffs, but 13 and 14, he's playing.

• 1:06:16Speaker 01

  That team was a absolute no fuck around team. He would have been, I think he would have been fine. He would have walked in and like, oh, I'm surrounded by all these winners.

• 1:06:26Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:06:27Speaker 01

  This is how winning, this is what it looks like to be a winner. The discipline, the commitment.

• 1:06:32Bill Simmons?

  Mattia sent in the question, I've been a fan of your content since the Anthony Bennett pick. I don't get that a lot.

• 1:06:41Speaker 01

  He saw you on television.

• 1:06:42Bill Simmons?

  My question, is this officially Chris Ryan's year? Is he the big winner of 2026? Can anyone beat him in the next five months or is this over?

• 1:06:52Speaker 01

  This is great. What a great question. CR.

• 1:06:55Bill Simmons?

  I'm going to give you four choices for the next thing that could happen for CR.

• 1:07:01Bill Simmons?

  Eagles start out 12 and 0.

• 1:07:05Bill Simmons?

  Michael Mann casts him in Heat 2, like just calls him up and says, you're going to be in Heat 2. I have good news. Netflix just hires him to run TV. Or we do an Aliens rewatchables episode of, for September 7th for that episode. Most likely out of those four.

• 1:07:23Speaker 01

  I mean,

• 1:07:26Speaker 01

  the most likely is that Aliens, you control that. That's the easiest one of them all.

• 1:07:31Bill Simmons?

  Aliens is happening on September 7th. Eagles 12 and 0. The other three aren't happening. But yeah, that'll be the next, for the year of CR, the next year of CR moment will be, uh, the Aliens rewatchables.

• 1:07:44Bill Simmons?

  Jeff M said,

• 1:07:47Bill Simmons?

  he's been leading, listening and reading and watching me since the early 2000s. And he thinks my apex for homerism content occurred during my Damon versus Leo conversation with CR. The categories for that comparison favoring Damon so dramatically reminded me of a ranking of best US presidents. Using criteria like most use of the word huge, best nicknames for political opponents and most orange.

• 1:08:14Bill Simmons?

  I have no counter.

• 1:08:16Speaker 01

  The fix was in.

• 1:08:17Bill Simmons?

  Question for House from Greg in DC. Are you following this weird story about Brandon Iuk basically stalking the commanders, trying to get them to sign him? He just bought a house in Virginia near the practice facility. Should they make a movie called Single Black Receiver about Iuk trying to befriend Terry McLaurin and then take his job? There could be a Tony Hardin, Nancy Kerrigan angle.

• 1:08:38Speaker 01

  That's effing hilarious and wonderful. I am almost to the point where I don't want to make fun of this guy. I think he's seriously mentally.

• 1:08:47Bill Simmons?

  Not all there?

• 1:08:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's got mental health issues. Yeah.

• 1:08:51Bill Simmons?

  Did he really move to Virginia?

• 1:08:53Speaker 01

  Who the fuck knows? He's like an insane person going on to social media. And basically every time he does it, takes his wallet and sets it on, he has to buy a new wallet every time he goes on. Because it diminishes the interest of the rest of the league.

• 1:09:11Bill Simmons?

  I would hope so.

• 1:09:12Speaker 01

  Any football whatsoever with anybody, like the best he's going to get from any team, and I don't think it's going to be Washington, is a tryout. And his ass, they'll cut him at the first sign of any nonsense. I, I don't understand it. And I honestly think it, it, there's something going on that's, that's not funny.

• 1:09:31Bill Simmons?

  What did you think of the Kyle Shanahan car accident, which seemed terrible and not getting reported for 14 days? I thought that was weird.

• 1:09:40Bill Simmons?

  That seems like that's, how is that not gonna affect their season? I thought that was a terrible story. That was the end of weird NFL story.

• 1:09:47Speaker 01

  I hope that the other driver-

• 1:09:49Bill Simmons?

  That was like a legitimate car accident.

• 1:09:50Speaker 01

  Was not hurt, right? That's the thing. What I don't like about the story-

• 1:09:55Bill Simmons?

  Kyle Shanahan got fucked up, though.

• 1:09:55Speaker 01

  The concussion.

• 1:09:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:57Speaker 01

  Like, you, it said severe concussion. And that he, he can't, that takes a long time.

• 1:10:03Bill Simmons?

  I thought that was, I felt bad for him.

• 1:10:05Speaker 01

  I don't like it. I feel bad for him, too.

• 1:10:07Bill Simmons?

  Matt from North Hollywood is upset that I applauded Matt Damon's beard.

• 1:10:14Bill Simmons?

  He said, "This is so shaded, Damon. Let's stop giving credit to men who grow shit beards. Clooney and Sirianni, great beard. James Harden, bizarre, but a strong example. Christian Bale and DiCaprio, great actors with shit beards. Our society needs to stop giving every man with three hairs on his chin a fucking participation trophy."

• 1:10:35Speaker 01

  A+. Agreed.

• 1:10:36Bill Simmons?

  I don't have a lot of notes. I thought Damon's beard was good. Brian W. wants to know, uh, the one-name athlete Hall of Fame, Nomar Messi, LeBron, Madonna, name any, anybody. What about the two-name Hall of Fame?

• 1:10:50Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:10:50Bill Simmons?

  He said the charter member is Harry Kane. I don't think I've ever heard him referred to as anything other than Harry Kane in a, any broadcast. This reminds me of our friend Nick Aida.

• 1:11:00Speaker 01

  Hey, that's a great, you're right.

• 1:11:02Bill Simmons?

  We always had a joke about Nick Aida was, just became one name and he was just Nick Aida. And I was trying to think of other athletes who are one-name guys. And I came up with Bo Nix. Has anyone ever called him Bo or Nix?

• 1:11:15Speaker 01

  I, I, I can't think of it. He is Bo Nix. It works, too.

• 1:11:19Bill Simmons?

  Grant Hill, did you ever call Grant, Grant or Hill?

• 1:11:22Speaker 01

  No, never.

• 1:11:23Bill Simmons?

  Kevin Love?

• 1:11:25Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:11:25Bill Simmons?

  There's some K-Love with him, I guess, but-

• 1:11:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:28Bill Simmons?

  Nobody ever called him Kevin. Chris Paul was either CP3 or Chris Paul, but never Chris or Paul.

• 1:11:34Speaker 01

  Pretty strong, pretty strong.

• 1:11:35Bill Simmons?

  And then, uh, my favorite one, Isaiah Joe.

• 1:11:39Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:11:41Bill Simmons?

  He's just Isaiah Joe. The, he's, nobody's ever called him anything other than Isaiah Joe. But it's like Nick Aida.

• 1:11:47Speaker 01

  But it sounds like a nickname.

• 1:11:49Bill Simmons?

  Is there any-

• 1:11:50Speaker 01

  It's an amazing name. It sounds like a nickname.

• 1:11:51Bill Simmons?

  Any I missed, though?

• 1:11:53Speaker 01

  Well, uh, it's, it's two words, but it's not a name. Big Poppy.

• 1:12:00Bill Simmons?

  Oh, that's a nickname.

• 1:12:02Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:12:04Bill Simmons?

  This is an incredible, I, I've been saving this email from you. It's from A from Paris.

• 1:12:09Speaker 01

  Oh, I like Paris.

• 1:12:13Bill Simmons?

  He said, "Everybody thinks the Spurs and Thunders are playing in the 27 West Finals, correct? We would certainly bet on this."

• 1:12:20Speaker 01

  Left hand up, yep.

• 1:12:26Bill Simmons?

  He said there's been a bunch of East Finals rematches over the years. 22, 23, Boston, Miami. 17, 18, Cleveland, Boston. There was Miami, Indiana, Miami, Detroit, Indy and the Knicks in the 90s. Detroit, Chicago. Boston, Detroit, 7, 87, 88. Philly and Boston, 80, 81, 82. We've had, in the last 45 years, seven Finals rematches. Golden State, Cleveland, Spurs, Miami, Chicago, Utah. Detroit Lakers, Boston Lakers, Philly Lakers.

• 1:12:58Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:12:59Bill Simmons?

  Can you guess the last time we've had a Western Conference Finals rematch?

• 1:13:04Speaker 01

  Oh, this is outstanding. Western Conference Finals. Because for a lot of that, um, Golden State era, it was ro, they were rotating. It wasn't just Golden State.

• 1:13:18Bill Simmons?

  Give me the, give me this. What decade do you think this happened in?

• 1:13:22Speaker 01

  Well, and when you put it that way, it makes me think we're going all the way back. We're like going back to the 70s. It's like Portland against somebody.

• 1:13:28Bill Simmons?

  We are. We're going back to the 80s. Because the last time this happened was 1982 and 83, the Lakers and the Spurs.

• 1:13:34Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:13:35Bill Simmons?

  Somehow this has never happened since.

• 1:13:37Speaker 01

  Hasn't the Spurs, over their run, not encounter anybody a second time?

• 1:13:42Bill Simmons?

  Because it was always, there was a couple of times with Spurs Suns or Spurs Lakers where they would meet in like round two instead of-

• 1:13:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:49Bill Simmons?

  Round three. Portland was in there. There was Minnesota, Sacramento. Somehow the, when the Lakers and Spurs, I think they played five times, but it was always in different rounds.

• 1:13:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:58Bill Simmons?

  Or staggered in some way. Yeah. Forty-four years.

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  That's insane.

• 1:14:05Bill Simmons?

  So if it's not one of those two teams, who is it?

• 1:14:08Speaker 01

  In the West?

• 1:14:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:11Bill Simmons?

  The odds right now are, it's funny, San Antonio has plus 145, OKC's plus 140 to win the West. The next three are Denver 12 to 1, Minnesota 13 to 1, Houston and the Lakers 20 to 1 and 22 to 1. I'll book either of those bets. Golden State 27 to 1, Portland 30 to 1. Yeah, the West is like, the East is so much better than the West. It's like staggering.

• 1:14:34Speaker 01

  The answer is Denver.

• 1:14:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I think so, too.

• 1:14:37Speaker 01

  I feel sadness in my heart for them. I don't.

• 1:14:42Speaker 01

  They have to move Jamal Murray.

• 1:14:44Bill Simmons?

  Sadness in your heart?

• 1:14:45Speaker 01

  Because, speaking of, you know, losing years of Steph, we're, we're gonna, we're on a run here of losing years with, with the Joker.

• 1:14:53Bill Simmons?

  How many teams conceivably could you see in the Western Finals? Cause for me, it's four. Cause I would throw Minnesota in there. I, you know, I don't think it's, they've done it twice.

• 1:15:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:03Bill Simmons?

  But is there any other team you would even give a conceivably to in the West?

• 1:15:07Speaker 01

  Not me.

• 1:15:08Bill Simmons?

  OKC, San Antonio, Denver, Minnesota, no one, you wouldn't say Lakers?

• 1:15:13Speaker 01

  Definitely not.

• 1:15:13Bill Simmons?

  Luca on a heater, Kessler, no, no way?

• 1:15:16Speaker 01

  No, nope, nope. Have you seen how many white guys are on that team?

• 1:15:21Bill Simmons?

  Clippers?

• 1:15:24Speaker 01

  Their over-under is like 29 or something, 28.

• 1:15:27Bill Simmons?

  Fourth worst odds in the West right now.

• 1:15:30Speaker 01

  With good, what do you mean? Like at, at the bottom of the entire thing? Yeah, well, that's deserved. If you looked at their roster, they stink.

• 1:15:38Bill Simmons?

  On Fanduel, the worst is Sacramento.

• 1:15:43Bill Simmons?

  And then,

• 1:15:46Bill Simmons?

  Clippers, Memphis, New Orleans, basically.

• 1:15:50Bill Simmons?

  I thought that was weird. Um, okay. Wait, uh, I think I have two more questions for you. I just lost my track. Again, are you hungry? My, dinner time?

• 1:15:59Speaker 01

  It's dinner time here on the East Coast.

• 1:16:02Bill Simmons?

  I want to shout out Justin from Dallas. I guess we have one question left. "As a Mavs fan, the Luca trade felt like in Game of Thrones when Ramsay Bolton cut off three on Greyjoy's dick and balls and then mailed them to his family."

• 1:16:20Bill Simmons?

  "I'm guessing for you that the Jaylen trade wasn't quite castration bad because you still have Tatum, but what is it? Is it Lieutenant Dan getting his legs blown off? Luke Skywalker getting his hand cut off by his dad? Or the British guy in Mad Men getting his foot run over by a lawnmower and in the office?"

• 1:16:38Bill Simmons?

  It was none of those things. We won the title two years ago. I'm fine.

• 1:16:43Bill Simmons?

  But he compared the Luca trade to Theon having

• 1:16:48Bill Simmons?

  his franks and beans get cut off and mailed to his family. The Dallas fans are never gonna get over this.

• 1:16:54Speaker 01

  Why, why would they? Why should they?

• 1:16:57Bill Simmons?

  They have Cooper flag. Move on. You have Cooper flag now. Start moving on. Move forward. Start healing.

• 1:17:03Speaker 01

  How can you? The team went to the finals and then the, the leadership was like, fuck that team. We're gonna be god awful for, for a handful of times.

• 1:17:12Bill Simmons?

  I'm just trying to put them in the right headspace.

• 1:17:13Speaker 01

  I, I mean, I, I appreciate your, um, encouragement, your, your gentle psychological ploy here, but they, they, that ownership and leadership, that they, that is, that, they did a bad thing.

• 1:17:28Bill Simmons?

  Good bag of mailbag questions.

• 1:17:30Speaker 01

  Phenomenal.

• 1:17:31Bill Simmons?

  Um, how's the summer going?

• 1:17:33Speaker 01

  It's great. I'm, I'm so happy to get LeBron settled because now I can, what should I watch? I'd like today, tonight, this Sunday night, July the whatever, my, my, July the 26th, I can start watching TV again. What am I gonna watch?

• 1:17:48Bill Simmons?

  You, LeBron was putting you on hold or it was because the majors ended?

• 1:17:52Speaker 01

  There's golf, yeah, yeah. Golf, golf, the, the golf majors finally end, ended, but yeah.

• 1:17:58Bill Simmons?

  First of all, thanks for thinking of me with this question. I obviously watch a ton of TV. Kate Fear is the worst well-done show I've ever seen.

• 1:18:07Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:18:07Bill Simmons?

  I think it's almost worth watching, but it's really, really reprehensibly, like you can't believe how bad it is, but it's incredibly well-done.

• 1:18:16Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:18:16Bill Simmons?

  I've never seen a show like it where it's like really well-done and awful, like awful.

• 1:18:22Speaker 01

  I don't think I can do it.

• 1:18:23Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:18:24Speaker 01

  That's not gonna be at the top.

• 1:18:25Bill Simmons?

  Some people like that Widows Bay show, which I gave two episodes.

• 1:18:30Speaker 01

  My wife and son watched the whole thing all the way through, so I'm not gonna watch that.

• 1:18:33Bill Simmons?

  Uh, my wife and I, we're in Hawaii. We watched Five Star Weekend on Peacock. And, um, it's really awful, but you get to go to Nantucket for eight episodes.

• 1:18:43Speaker 01

  That's pretty good.

• 1:18:44Bill Simmons?

  And, uh, watch all these women who hate each other, just get mad at each other and do different events. Here's what I'd recommend to you, though, because I've been watching this. Uh, I've been watching Homeland, season one on Netflix.

• 1:18:57Speaker 01

  Oh, wow. You went back?

• 1:18:59Bill Simmons?

  I went back. It was 14 years ago. Barely remembered anything that happened. And my wife and I, we were just at a loss to, for anything but one of the TV show. And we're like, we need something alike. And so we just ended up stumbling into the pilot.

• 1:19:14Bill Simmons?

  How, the pilot is so good. I was, I was actually, I was, saw Fantasy and CR and Greenwald, a bunch of people last night. I was talking about this last night.

• 1:19:25Bill Simmons?

  It's so good. And it actually made me nostalgic to when TV was more normal, where they were just like, they have three ideas. It's Brody comes back. And did they turn him when he was over in Afghanistan? Claire Danes is nuts. And Brody's wife is banging his best friend. And those are like the three things. And they're just like, we're not going to be 50 characters. We're not going to be 40 plots. We're not going backwards and forwards. We're just going to have a TV show that you can follow. That's really good. And I gotta say, I've really enjoyed it. We watched five episodes over the last couple of days and I would highly recommend diving back in. I didn't remember anything.

• 1:20:04Speaker 01

  I have the fondest, uh, remembrances of the quality of Homeland for several series, for several, I mean, several seasons. So wow, maybe that's what I'll do.

• 1:20:14Bill Simmons?

  Really, really great Claire Danes?

• 1:20:16Speaker 01

  Behind though, like the cultural, you know, zeitgeist to not be caught up on the shows.

• 1:20:22Bill Simmons?

  You're not behind anything. You're not missing much. Um, trying to think.

• 1:20:27Speaker 01

  So I watched a movie. You told me I should watch Obsession.

• 1:20:30Bill Simmons?

  We're doing that for rewatchables tomorrow, live on Netflix.

• 1:20:33Speaker 01

  Oh, how about that? There you go.

• 1:20:35Bill Simmons?

  You should definitely watch Obsession. It's on Peacock.

• 1:20:37Speaker 01

  Okay, okay.

• 1:20:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's a good one. Um, trying to think of other movies. And you gotta see The Odyssey at some point, right?

• 1:20:44Speaker 01

  But I'm going to do that with the 70mm and the IMAX and the whole thing.

• 1:20:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's, I would, I would give Homeland a, the pilot a whirl. I think you'll be shocked. And I would encourage the rest of America to follow suit.

• 1:20:58Speaker 01

  There we go.

• 1:20:59Bill Simmons?

  Really, really good. I was, I was just like, wow, we really knew how to do it back then. Anyway, all right, House, good to see you. Maybe I'll see you on the West Coast at some point.

• 1:21:09Speaker 01

  Looking forward to that.

• 1:21:10Bill Simmons?

  All right, thanks for coming on. We're going to take a break, come back with, uh, my dad in one second.

• 1:21:14Speaker 02

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• 1:22:08Bill Simmons?

  All right, my dad is here. It is Sunday afternoon after yet another Red Sox winning series. They have won six straight series. They have turned their entire season around. They have won the attention of Boston. I've been watching a ton. It's certainly a very likable team. And it all happens, starting really the day after the Jaylen Brown trade. The Celtics acquire Paul George and the Red Sox season flips immediately. And you have refused to come on the podcast since the Jaylen Brown trade. You're upset, you're not upset anymore. You're ready to rationally discuss it.

• 1:22:43Speaker 05

  No, I'm, I'm still upset, but, um, I guess I'm ready to discuss it.

• 1:22:52Bill Simmons?

  That's a dramatic pause.

• 1:22:54Speaker 05

  But, you know, I've been really excited about the Red Sox, uh, last month, as you mentioned, and I went to the game where they won number 15 in a row with nephew Brian. That was a lot of fun. I'm really down on the trade they made last night.

• 1:23:11Bill Simmons?

  Oh, the Curtis May trade?

• 1:23:13Speaker 05

  Yeah. You have a starting pitcher who you pitched in the playoffs last year.

• 1:23:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:20Speaker 05

  24 years old, a lefty. Our favorite kind of pitcher.

• 1:23:24Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:25Speaker 05

  And they have about 12 guys who play second or third. They all hit about 250. They're all the same guy.

• 1:23:32Bill Simmons?

  250?

• 1:23:32Speaker 05

  I don't think we needed another guy. I don't get it. I never get it.

• 1:23:36Bill Simmons?

  They needed righty pop and they had a glut of starting pitching, I think. And I, you know, early, he's on my AL keeper team too. His, his, uh, his elbow was hurt. There was a minute where it looked like he was going to be out and have to have like-

• 1:23:51Speaker 05

  Oh, good, his elbow was hurt.

• 1:23:53Bill Simmons?

  Well, I mean, his elbow was hurt and for a second it seemed like he might be out for like 12 months. And then like, no, no, no, no, we need, we need rest. I'm talking about, about early.

• 1:24:02Speaker 05

  Oh, you're talking about early.

• 1:24:03Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:03Speaker 05

  Oh, early, yeah.

• 1:24:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he was hurt. So he's coming back and that, I don't know, I wonder if that was a piece of it too. But I thought they needed another bat though, from watching them really for the last four weeks, every game, like.

• 1:24:14Speaker 05

  But you texted me that he's a terrible defensive player. So, so where are we playing this guy? Another DH?

• 1:24:21Bill Simmons?

  He's 225 pounds, which is not ideal for an infielder, but, uh-

• 1:24:25Speaker 05

  I didn't know he was that heavy.

• 1:24:26Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he bounces, well, he's strong. He's, uh, I think he's Australian too, but I think he's going to bounce around and, um, and be DH and they need another righty with pop.

• 1:24:37Speaker 05

  I don't know if you saw the Globe today, but Durbin said he'd be willing to move to second base.

• 1:24:41Bill Simmons?

  I saw that.

• 1:24:42Speaker 05

  Yeah, but if this guy is not a good defensive third baseman, that's no good. Well, Durbin's played a good third.

• 1:24:49Bill Simmons?

  I've been waiting to have you on. I didn't want to jinx the Red Sox winning streak. And they won 15 straight, but they had the game that night. That would have been, you coming back from that game would have been good to have on, but I didn't want to jinx anything that was happening, but they lost a couple now. So it's good to talk about Durbin. There's a few Red Sox things to talk about. We'll talk about the Celtics straight after this, but Durbin.

• 1:25:09Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:25:09Bill Simmons?

  So I'm in that, I'm in that Boston sports thread with a couple LA friends out here. And Durbin was so bad the first month of the season that we na, you know, you can name the text threads? We named the text thread Caleb Durbin 600 OBP wa, uh, 600 OPS watch, right? He was so bad, we changed the title to 500 OPS watch, which is like, if you have a 500 OPS, you shouldn't even be in baseball. The first two months, he was the worst batter I've ever watched on the Red Sox since like Jack Clark. And then all of a sudden he flipped it and now we keep changing the thread and now it's like 700 OPS watch. He might get to 750 by the end of the year. He's had all these clutch hits. He's a great teammate.

• 1:25:53Bill Simmons?

  Seems like his teammates love him and it's been this unbelievable turn of events.

• 1:25:58Speaker 05

  Well, I think I read that he has the best defensive third baseman rating right now. And, uh, you know, last time I was on the pod, we talked about him, not very positively.

• 1:26:09Bill Simmons?

  He was terrible. He was an automatic out.

• 1:26:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, he was. You know, they said that he, he brought his feet closer together and, and I don't know what makes a difference for the hitter, but suddenly he has a lot of confidence.

• 1:26:23Bill Simmons?

  Well, he tried, he dropped the driveline stuff and then got his own hitting coach, which was a big story. I thought that was fun.

• 1:26:29Speaker 05

  Oh, I didn't know that.

• 1:26:30Bill Simmons?

  He got like, different hitting help than whatever the instruction was and just started popping it.

• 1:26:35Speaker 05

  The key driveline guy they had on the roster left the Red Sox. Maybe that made a difference too.

• 1:26:41Bill Simmons?

  So it turns around because of him. All of a sudden, every starting pitcher they have, seems like they're throwing six or seven innings. Chapman, this Guerrero comes out of nowhere. He's 35 years old, throws over 100 and has been this lights out setup guy. And then the heart of the lineup, although Abreu got cold lately, but, uh, but Abreu and Contreras, but I was saying quickly on the Wednesday pod about Contreras has been, in my opinion, the key to everything. He's just a maniac. He's our kind of guy. He's a lunatic. He's been a lunatic from day one. He just really gives a shit every game.

• 1:27:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, he does. He, I think you heard, I watched the game yesterday and he hurt his finger sliding at second. So he probably shouldn't have been playing. He should be resting, but it's kind of affected his swing a little bit.

• 1:27:28Bill Simmons?

  But he's one of, he's one of those guys though.

• 1:27:30Speaker 05

  Yeah. The camaraderie on the team is terrific. But who would have, nobody could have guessed this turnaround.

• 1:27:39Bill Simmons?

  I gotta say, I was not watching, you were watching way more than me and I was making fun of you because it, it just felt like it had hit rock bottom. Everyone was going to get fired. They already fired Cora. Breslow was going to be next. The Roman Anthony, I mean, they don't have Roman Anthony, who is going to be the next Ted Williams. They don't have Crochet who got hurt and Trevor Story, who I think is the most expensive guy in the team. And he goes out and somehow that made everything better. I don't understand it.

• 1:28:07Speaker 05

  I don't understand it.

• 1:28:08Bill Simmons?

  And Meyer, who was supposed to be good too, and is just stiff, I guess.

• 1:28:11Speaker 05

  A month ago, the crowd was chanting, sell the team, sell the team. And, uh, and I think Breslow's job was on the line, you know, just my personal opinion, but too many mistakes have been made and all of a sudden they're winning, playing, you know, this manager, he's very even keeled.

• 1:28:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:32Speaker 05

  He's making a lot of decisions that Cora never made. I like Cora, but, uh, Cora never liked to bunt. We had three sacrifice bunts today and, and they all meant something in this game.

• 1:28:44Bill Simmons?

  He might have run his course. I think he's a good manager. He might've just worn out his welcome. Well, there-

• 1:28:49Speaker 05

  Well, we've, we've talked about coaches and managers that eventually the voice, the players get tired of hearing the same voice.

• 1:28:57Bill Simmons?

  It happened with Francona and honestly, it happened with Brad Stevens. I thought they wore out with him that last year, remember?

• 1:29:03Speaker 05

  You mean as a general manager?

• 1:29:05Bill Simmons?

  No, as a manager, as a coach.

• 1:29:06Speaker 05

  Oh, as a coach, okay, sorry.

• 1:29:07Bill Simmons?

  As a coach, yeah.

• 1:29:09Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:29:12Bill Simmons?

  But yeah, Frank O'Neal felt like he was welcome. Well, they're 54 and 50. For the wild card, they're right behind the Yankees now. And I don't know.

• 1:29:23Speaker 05

  I don't know either.

• 1:29:24Bill Simmons?

  Seven back from Tampa. They're going on a road trip right now. They're still getting pitching. I don't know if Jake Bennett can continue to throw like this, but Ranger pitched today and was great.

• 1:29:34Speaker 05

  Well, that's, I think that's the other thing that concerned me about the early trade. It's like they feel they have too much pitching, but the game they lost after they won number 15, they threw that guy out there. It didn't even last an inning.

• 1:29:48Bill Simmons?

  The doubleheader guy, yeah. Well, they're trying because they have this Baio who can't pitch in the first inning for some this unique situation where if he's, as long as he doesn't start, he's great.

• 1:29:59Speaker 05

  I would have liked to have seen Bale in that trade last night.

• 1:30:02Bill Simmons?

  Instead of early?

• 1:30:04Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 1:30:05Bill Simmons?

  I don't know. I don't think he has a lot of, I don't think he has a lot of a

• 1:30:08Speaker 05

  Trade value right now?

• 1:30:09Bill Simmons?

  No, I don't. I don't think so.

• 1:30:11Speaker 05

  Well, I didn't like the trade, so I decided I'm wearing my Patriot hat today.

• 1:30:17Speaker 05

  Which I don't, I don't usually wear. It's a protest. It's a protest. I was gonna wear the Red Sox hat when you asked yesterday about coming on the pod, but didn't like the trade. And I obviously can't wear my Celtic hat.

• 1:30:29Bill Simmons?

  You should have brought, you should have brought your younger dog and held the dog during the podcast like Mike Frabel.

• 1:30:38Bill Simmons?

  That was a classic.

• 1:30:39Speaker 05

  That was a classic. It looked like he was holding for protection.

• 1:30:43Bill Simmons?

  So do you think this Red Sox thing's sustainable? Cause I know you've watched the entire season because you don't have a job.

• 1:30:50Speaker 05

  Well, it's not that I don't have a job. I'm retired.

• 1:30:53Bill Simmons?

  Well, you're retired.

• 1:30:54Speaker 05

  Yeah, okay.

• 1:30:55Bill Simmons?

  Don't have a job.

• 1:30:56Speaker 05

  Different. Not having a job kind of denotes that maybe you never had a job.

• 1:31:01Bill Simmons?

  It is true. You did work for a long time.

• 1:31:03Speaker 05

  Yeah, okay.

• 1:31:04Bill Simmons?

  All right. So you're retired. You watched a lot of Red Sox, even when they were bad.

• 1:31:07Speaker 05

  I think it's, I think it's sustainable because two things. I do think the pitching is deep. And they had that Ison, the guy they drafted last year, and he's lights out down in the minors.

• 1:31:20Bill Simmons?

  You don't think we're gonna see him this year, do you?

• 1:31:22Speaker 05

  I think we're gonna see him.

• 1:31:23Bill Simmons?

  Oh, wow. Cause sometimes the Mariners are in the same boat with Cade Anderson, who's the best prospect in baseball now. And they've been really careful about whether they want to bring him up or not. These guys have all these innings limits. I didn't know if Ison would potentially come up.

• 1:31:39Speaker 05

  You know what they're doing with Ison? They pitched him three innings last night. They're, they're not letting him go the full nine innings yet.

• 1:31:46Bill Simmons?

  See, this is one of the many things I respect about you is your devotion to minor league baseball stats with the Red Sox. Whatever's going on in Worcester or wherever else you're in Greenville, Portland.

• 1:31:59Speaker 05

  This is in

• 1:32:01Bill Simmons?

  Whatever. He's a double A.

• 1:32:02Speaker 05

  Greenville, maybe. I don't know.

• 1:32:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I, so I think they have one more trade in them. And it's interesting because the A's catcher, who I thought made a ton of sense for them.

• 1:32:14Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:32:15Bill Simmons?

  Got hurt. I think he's out for the year. He tours in the Niskus.

• 1:32:18Speaker 05

  He might be up for the, yeah. I thought, I thought that was a possible trade.

• 1:32:21Bill Simmons?

  I wanted them to get him or the Colorado catcher, like just really take a swing and go after somebody. I don't know. The question is whether they would put Arias in a trade, who's their best prospect, this 20 year old shortstop.

• 1:32:33Speaker 05

  He's our shortstop of the future.

• 1:32:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he could be the next Marcelo Meyer.

• 1:32:38Speaker 05

  Yeah. Catching, catching is their, their weak point in terms of batting average for sure.

• 1:32:45Bill Simmons?

  So did, are there, are there people that roam the streets every day looking for Roman Anthony or what happens with it? Is this like a Netflix true crime series? What happened to him?

• 1:32:56Speaker 05

  If they're roaming the streets in Florida, they're gonna look for him, but

• 1:33:00Bill Simmons?

  Finger injuries could be out for 12 months?

• 1:33:04Speaker 05

  It's really strange. And it's like the reporters, the journalists are staying away from it. There's not any reporting about him or criticism or what, what's taking this finger injury so long?

• 1:33:20Bill Simmons?

  Guy was in the World Baseball Classic in March.

• 1:33:23Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:33:24Bill Simmons?

  With big at bats.

• 1:33:26Speaker 05

  Except Meyer and both of them have been injury prone. Every single year.

• 1:33:31Bill Simmons?

  Meyer, Meyer gets hurt every year. We, in our AL Keeper League, we had him. We traded him before the season this year. We didn't, we didn't want to go through it anymore.

• 1:33:40Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:33:41Bill Simmons?

  With the, with our real team and our fake team at the same time, but

• 1:33:44Speaker 05

  Even his, his injury is weird.

• 1:33:47Bill Simmons?

  The finger injury, nobody's ever had in the history of some tendon or something that nobody's sort of

• 1:33:51Speaker 05

  Yes. Yeah. And the Roman Anthony injury, it's not 100% clearly explained to me exactly what that injury is.

• 1:33:59Bill Simmons?

  I was talking about that one. Yeah. It was some sort of finger thing. But that, I mean, for what the hype was with him and how important he was, and plus they gave him 100 million bucks already.

• 1:34:11Bill Simmons?

  It's the equivalent of like if Tatum played his rookie year and then just didn't play in 2018 or 2019, or if, I don't know, Drake May didn't play in year two. Like that was, this was supposed to be the guy. This was supposed to be the meal ticket of the team. And, and now Contreras is the guy. I just, the odds were like 100 to one. The Contreras thing was, oh man, they didn't get Pete Alonso. This is so disappointing.

• 1:34:37Speaker 05

  I mean, Anthony was gonna be the guy. He was gonna be our outfielder that everybody talked about. Now Rafael is having a good season.

• 1:34:46Bill Simmons?

  Really good season.

• 1:34:47Speaker 05

  Duran, he had a good game today, three hits. Maybe he'll get hot again. I think he would have been probably traded. Well, I think he probably would have been traded earlier if Anthony was around. They have too many outfielders.

• 1:35:01Bill Simmons?

  I think he would have been traded if he could hit or play defense. Or throw a ball. Those are the three things.

• 1:35:09Speaker 05

  I'm not giving up on him.

• 1:35:11Bill Simmons?

  Well, he did it two years ago.

• 1:35:13Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:35:13Bill Simmons?

  And then not any of the other years, but

• 1:35:16Speaker 05

  Yeah. Ray was, what is he, 0 for 20? It's very weird because he carried them for a little bit. Won some games and now he can't hit.

• 1:35:26Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:27Speaker 05

  It's a strange game anyway.

• 1:35:28Bill Simmons?

  Well, regardless, they, they say the World Cup comes and you watch, I loved how much World Cup you watched for somebody who doesn't follow soccer at all, but you somehow really threw yourself, you throw yourself in it every four years.

• 1:35:42Speaker 05

  I think I watched as many games as, as I could possibly watch.

• 1:35:46Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. So that starts in second week of June, right as the Red Sox season has never looked bleaker. And then all the Scots came to, came to Boston and they had games in Foxborough. And it felt like the World Cup just kind of moved attention away from the Red Sox for like three weeks. And then they got their shit together. And then the Jaylen Brown trade. And nobody really even put serious thought into them until July 4th range. And then they started winning, you know?

• 1:36:15Speaker 05

  Maybe that was part of it. They didn't feel the pressure of, this is a city with a lot of pressure on sports themes, obviously. And they didn't feel it. I mean, I told you the World Cup story. I walked the two dogs. I was on Beacon Street near the Cheers around noon time and about 40 guys came out of the Cheers with kilts on. And, and took over Beacon Street singing and dancing. And

• 1:36:42Speaker 05

  it, it energized the city for the whole time. It was great. Great to be here then.

• 1:36:47Bill Simmons?

  It was, my daughter said it was her favorite night she's ever had in Boston was the, one of the NBA finals games at the same time with Scotland's World Cup game. And they were out at a bar with 200 Scotland people there. I mean, to, to drink Boston, where Boston has no beer left at some of the bars is pretty, pretty unprecedented.

• 1:37:06Speaker 05

  Yeah. And I never, and I never heard of or read of any altercations.

• 1:37:12Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 1:37:13Speaker 05

  No, Boston can be pretty cruel when there's 40 to 60 men walking around with kilts. And I never heard any problems.

• 1:37:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. The stereotype, and we should mention, we're part Scottish. We have, we have some Scottish in us. But the stereotype was always like the Irish were like the sadder drunks and the Scots were like the angrier drunks. And that wasn't, didn't seem like that was the case at all.

• 1:37:35Speaker 05

  No.

• 1:37:35Bill Simmons?

  In Boston. And if anything, like they're arranging these Scotland, Boston, like these joint things they're gonna do. The mayors were talking to each other. It's an unexpected love fest.

• 1:37:46Speaker 05

  Well, and right after that, the Norwegian showed up and they have video of them on the trolley car. Like 30 of them on the floor of the trolley car doing their rowing thing.

• 1:38:01Speaker 05

  You can't make this stuff up in this city.

• 1:38:04Bill Simmons?

  But it seemed like it was, it seemed like it was a huge success, though.

• 1:38:07Speaker 05

  Oh, it was huge, huge success. Even the travel out to Foxborough went well, I guess.

• 1:38:13Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:13Speaker 05

  Uh, they sold well the tickets. Yeah.

• 1:38:17Bill Simmons?

  How you, speaking of Foxborough, how you feeling about the Pats?

• 1:38:20Speaker 05

  Why am I Patriot hat on? I'm feeling pretty good.

• 1:38:24Bill Simmons?

  You were excited for A.J. Brown. You always like having a stud receiver.

• 1:38:28Speaker 05

  Well, I feel like we have a stud one and two. And I can't remember the last time I felt we had good receivers, but we didn't have a one, you know.

• 1:38:38Bill Simmons?

  Moss and Welker, right?

• 1:38:41Speaker 05

  Well, Diggs, Diggs had a good year, except he played half the game every game. And he was a step slower than I think in his heyday.

• 1:38:51Bill Simmons?

  Didn't seem like Seattle had to defend him in the Super Bowl, the way these two guys are going to be treated, especially AJ.

• 1:38:57Speaker 05

  If they have to double A.J. Brown, um, we're gonna have guys open for Drake May. Of course, you and I keep talking about, I don't think the key is that part. I think the key is the offensive line, because that's what let them down in the Super Bowl.

• 1:39:13Bill Simmons?

  To say the least. Well, it seems like it's a little better. And the Vrabel thing has calmed down, I guess. Hopefully, there's not another story, but that was super weird.

• 1:39:22Speaker 05

  Super, yeah, negative. Not, no recent, no recent stories in the paper.

• 1:39:31Bill Simmons?

  No, it seems like it's, we'll see if there's one more coming, but, um. Yeah, it's just, there were such good vibes from the Vrabel era. And family, leadership, and then it's like, whoops.

• 1:39:43Speaker 05

  It's not, yeah. I wouldn't say it's a hundred percent the same anymore.

• 1:39:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's tough to, uh, we'll see, though. They'll just.

• 1:39:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, we'll see.

• 1:39:52Bill Simmons?

  They'll be, they'll be, I've been doing all my, um, my prep stuff. And the schedule wasn't as horrible as I thought it was gonna be. Like, obviously, they start in Seattle, week one, first game, not ideal. And then they go home Steelers, at Jags, at Bills.

• 1:40:12Bill Simmons?

  So it could be a one and three.

• 1:40:14Speaker 05

  Or two and two.

• 1:40:15Bill Simmons?

  Two and two would be ideal, but then after that, it gets a little easier. They got the Jets twice, they got the Dolphins twice. They played the Lions, but it's, it's away, it's in Munich. They have a Chargers game that's gonna have a million Boston fans at it, so I don't know.

• 1:40:30Speaker 05

  You know, they do these stats on strength of schedule based on how the teams did last year.

• 1:40:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:37Speaker 05

  Uh, every team is different this year. Teams lost players, they're not gonna be as strong as they were last year.

• 1:40:45Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, and they have like, they have the Chiefs at Kansas City on Monday night, week 15. Who knows? The Chiefs might not even be good. They have the Broncos, week 17, but that's home.

• 1:40:55Speaker 05

  Would you be satisfied with 11 and 6?

• 1:40:58Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:40:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:40:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I think some of it, they play the AFC West and the NFC North. But they're lucky, they play the Raiders early, they play the Raiders week five. So that they'll still have Cousins at that point. They won't have Mendoza in there yet.

• 1:41:11Speaker 05

  But that hurt us last year by playing the Raiders early.

• 1:41:14Bill Simmons?

  I know, but I'm saying that they're, they're Cousins-ing it. They, I really don't think Mendoza will be ready by then. And then, um, you know, the Dolphins and Jets both project to be pretty awful. And I also, the Bills are like one of the AFC favorites, and I, I don't totally see it. I don't know why they're ahead of us. I don't, I don't see that as a Homer fan. Like, I honestly don't see it. I don't see it with the Bills at all.

• 1:41:38Speaker 05

  All, all around the quarterback.

• 1:41:40Bill Simmons?

  Right, but that's the case last year.

• 1:41:42Speaker 05

  Yeah, and he doesn't have the receiving core that we have.

• 1:41:45Bill Simmons?

  Well, he doesn't have the defense.

• 1:41:47Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:41:48Bill Simmons?

  You know, so, I don't know. There were, there were a lot of signs before the schedule came out and everything, that it would be a big regression team, Super Bowl hangover, but.

• 1:41:57Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:41:57Bill Simmons?

  I don't know, they got A.J. Brown, I think they had a really good draft. I think that should be all right.

• 1:42:02Speaker 05

  This is a really fun, fun time of sports in Boston, because the training camp is this week for the Patriots. Red Sox are on a roll, but they go on the road now. Hockey is just gearing up in terms of training camp.

• 1:42:17Bill Simmons?

  Combo yet. No, come on. Now you're pushing it.

• 1:42:20Speaker 05

  Come on.

• 1:42:21Bill Simmons?

  July 26th, what are the hockey conversations?

• 1:42:23Speaker 05

  Except hockey starts in September now.

• 1:42:26Bill Simmons?

  The Bruins did something you like, though.

• 1:42:30Speaker 05

  Well, they made a couple of moves I liked. I liked the goalie they're gonna go with.

• 1:42:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you like the goalie. Yeah.

• 1:42:39Speaker 05

  I liked their draft the last three years. Hopefully, those guys could contribute, but it's a crapshoot.

• 1:42:45Bill Simmons?

  All right, that was enough foreplay. Celtics trade Jaylen Brown.

• 1:42:50Speaker 05

  Is that it?

• 1:42:50Bill Simmons?

  Celtics trade Jaylen Brown for.

• 1:42:53Speaker 05

  Oh, no.

• 1:42:54Bill Simmons?

  Paul George and two firsts, and he goes to Philly, which then intrigues LeBron James enough to go actually sign with Philly for $4 million a year. And this is the team, um, my entire life, we've hated the most. The biggest win we ever had together was the 1981 Eastern Finals, the comeback.

• 1:43:15Bill Simmons?

  I remember we went to the 1977 playoff games when Philly beat Towns and Havlicek. That team, the Doc, Dr. J's first year, beat us in the playoffs.

• 1:43:25Speaker 05

  Havlicek, you remember why we lost the 77 one, right?

• 1:43:29Bill Simmons?

  Well, because we didn't sign Paul Silas.

• 1:43:31Speaker 05

  Exactly. The, maybe one of the only mistakes Red Bull made.

• 1:43:38Bill Simmons?

  So then.

• 1:43:38Speaker 05

  Actually, two, one of two mistakes he made.

• 1:43:40Bill Simmons?

  We beat them and they beat us in 80 and 82. We beat them in 81 and I think 84, 85. I don't think they play in the 90s. We beat Iverson with the Paul Pierce Antoine team. We beat them, um, in round two after Derrick Rose got hurt in 2012. Game seven, which was Rondo's greatest game. Then we have a bunch of stuff against the Embiid Sixers, which we win every time.

• 1:44:08Speaker 05

  That huge comeback game in the playoffs against them.

• 1:44:11Bill Simmons?

  Against them, and then we, it felt like we had their number, and then they come back and beat us last year in seven. And then get trounced by the Knicks, which kind of made it worse.

• 1:44:21Speaker 05

  I'm still, I'm still shaking my head. We're up 3-1 in how we lost that series.

• 1:44:27Bill Simmons?

  And you went to all the games, the game two and game five were the ones that lost the series.

• 1:44:32Speaker 05

  Yes, yeah, game seven, we didn't show up.

• 1:44:37Speaker 05

  And Embiid, let's face it, Embiid played really well.

• 1:44:41Bill Simmons?

  He did. He had three good games in him.

• 1:44:44Speaker 05

  And then the, the Knicks did something to Embiid that seemed to knock him out for a loop. One of the, I think it was, uh, Adam, uh, somebody elbowed him in the, in the stomach.

• 1:44:57Bill Simmons?

  Oh, Ananobe, yeah.

• 1:44:58Speaker 05

  Yeah, where he had the appendicitis surgery. And, uh, I'm not saying that we should have done that, but it certainly made a difference.

• 1:45:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:07Speaker 05

  Yeah, they're more physical than we should have been.

• 1:45:10Bill Simmons?

  So the season couldn't have ended worse.

• 1:45:12Speaker 05

  No.

• 1:45:13Bill Simmons?

  And then, uh, and they lose game seven on my daughter's 21st birthday.

• 1:45:17Speaker 05

  Well, every other podcast I've done with you, I had my self the cut on.

• 1:45:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Well, you weren't happy with the coaching strategy, too many minutes for Tatum, all the same stuff I said on the pod.

• 1:45:28Speaker 05

  Yeah, you, we've talked about that before.

• 1:45:30Bill Simmons?

  Doesn't play game seven, the whole thing. Go to, we go into the draft free agency, they're trying to figure out this Jaylen Brown thing. Did you want the Giannis trade or you didn't?

• 1:45:40Speaker 05

  I would, I would have, I would have, uh, been looking forward to watching Giannis. Yep.

• 1:45:46Bill Simmons?

  So you would have put, because they only made one offer. I mean, there's been so much written and talked about this. They made one offer, they never made a second offer. They never tried to up it. Miami upped their offer like five times.

• 1:45:58Speaker 05

  But I would have, I would have kept upping our offer.

• 1:46:01Bill Simmons?

  So you would have put Hugos in the trade?

• 1:46:03Speaker 05

  Well, I don't know what the trade would have been, but some of it is looking back now. By not doing everything they could to make that trade, we made one of the two worst trades that I've seen in my lifetime.

• 1:46:18Speaker 05

  So.

• 1:46:18Bill Simmons?

  What was the other one?

• 1:46:20Speaker 05

  The Doncic trade.

• 1:46:21Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 1:46:23Speaker 05

  I put Jaylen Brown's trade in the same category. So would I have rather seen them put more assets into a Giannis trade, sure. For what happened when we didn't get Giannis?

• 1:46:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:35Speaker 05

  Or don't trade Brown right now, hold on to him for a while. There's, there's no urgency.

• 1:46:41Bill Simmons?

  Well, they could have waited to see where LeBron landed before. I feel like Philly is doing that trade regardless.

• 1:46:47Speaker 05

  I don't think so. I don't think Philly, if Brown wasn't on Philly, I, I really don't think LeBron goes there.

• 1:46:54Bill Simmons?

  But I'm saying, wait till he goes somewhere else and then do the Philly trade. But I don't even think it was on their radar.

• 1:47:00Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 1:47:00Bill Simmons?

  Certainly wasn't on my radar. I never expected him to go there, but, um, I just, I, we've always talked about when you make trades that the other team not only eagerly says yes to, but will, will also do four months from now? Then why are you doing the trade? And that's the part I'll never get a good answer on.

• 1:47:18Speaker 05

  No, me neither. You know, and the, the whole philosophy in Boston has been, in Brad, we trust. And I think he's been a terrific general manager. I'll never understand this trade. And the other unfortunate part, I really like Chisholm coming in as the new owner.

• 1:47:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:37Speaker 05

  I, I, as a fan, because he talks about himself as a fan. I don't know why he would have ever approved this trade as a fan. Forget being in the owner.

• 1:47:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:48Speaker 05

  But it made no sense. It's, you know, I read an article, they're going to save money. They're not saving money. Maybe they'll save money down the line.

• 1:47:58Bill Simmons?

  Right. Year three, though, save money.

• 1:48:00Speaker 05

  Okay, year three. So it's two more years of Tatum in his prime. Playing with an injury prone Paul George next to him. Makes no sense.

• 1:48:13Bill Simmons?

  And you like Simons, too. And then he ended up on Philly, too.

• 1:48:16Speaker 05

  I, I, I was shocked when he ended up in, because we had room to bring him back.

• 1:48:20Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:20Speaker 05

  And we, you and I talked about the playoffs. We missed the third guard in that playoffs. I, I know Pritchard played, but we missed Simon's minutes. And we got nothing out of the guy we got at center in that trade.

• 1:48:35Bill Simmons?

  My fear.

• 1:48:36Speaker 05

  That was another flub by Stevens, too.

• 1:48:39Bill Simmons?

  My fear is that they treated this Tatum, uh, his Achilles injury as almost like a two year window to reboot everything and then go all in a year from now. Is my, is my fear.

• 1:48:52Speaker 05

  We said that a year ago when they let go of, uh, four of our starters.

• 1:48:56Bill Simmons?

  Well, but that was year one of year two. This year two now is, all right, we do Paul George and then he's an expiring next year. We've reset all the tax stuff and now we'll go back in and try to compete.

• 1:49:07Speaker 05

  But he's not an expiring. He has two years in the country. He has a player option.

• 1:49:11Bill Simmons?

  I know he's, he's.

• 1:49:12Speaker 05

  He's gonna, he's gonna do the player option. Nobody's gonna sign him.

• 1:49:16Bill Simmons?

  I know, but next year he'll opt in and then he'll be an expiring contract. They'll have all their tax stuff reset and then they can do, that's the only thing I can think of. And I, I don't agree with it, but.

• 1:49:26Speaker 05

  I don't, well, again, I don't agree with it for the reason I just said. So you're talking three years from now. Tatum's three years older.

• 1:49:34Bill Simmons?

  Two years from now. If, if Paul George isn't expiring and you have these picks. I, listen, you, you took a long time to come around on Jaylen Brown. He was probably the most frustrating Celtic of the last 10 years for you.

• 1:49:50Speaker 05

  I, I, I need to be clear on something. I, I thought Jaylen Brown carried us last year in many ways. The eye test, I know they keep talking about the stats versus the eye test. And I went to all the games, at most of the games at home. He carried us. His numbers weren't always that great. His efficiency wasn't that great, but we, we won 56 games.

• 1:50:18Speaker 05

  I probably had had enough for watching Jaylen Brown. So I'm not, I'm not opposed. Yeah, I'm not opposed to the fact they thought it was time to trade him.

• 1:50:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:28Speaker 05

  I thought the trade was horrendous. And I'll never understand why they accepted that trade.

• 1:50:35Bill Simmons?

  Well, you said on the streets of Boston in your, as you, as you roam around, people, people are really.

• 1:50:42Speaker 05

  Cause I don't have a job.

• 1:50:43Bill Simmons?

  And you, and you walk the dogs, but people, and people, you know, they talked to the Celtics about you, but, but across the board, people are pissed. There's no, there's no other side on this trade. It doesn't seem like.

• 1:50:54Speaker 05

  Yeah, people, people obviously talk to me. They recognize from the documentary and podcasts and whatever. And, uh,

• 1:51:04Speaker 05

  I, I haven't met one person who was in favor of that trade. As a matter of fact, it's not just in favor or not in favor. People are really upset about it.

• 1:51:14Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Well, also he did, he did a lot of stuff in this city, too, which we always talked about. I don't know. I felt like that has to count for something as you're factoring in all this stuff. That somebody actually cared, somebody actually cared about your city and trying to get back to it and put real time into it and, you know, I don't know.

• 1:51:37Speaker 05

  And I talked about once, it seemed like once his name was out there in the honest trade, it was inevitable, probably that they'd have to move him. But they didn't have to move him so quickly. They didn't have to move him for that package.

• 1:51:52Bill Simmons?

  Well, I wonder, it, it seemed a little dicier behind the scenes than maybe we're led to let on because there's stuff that pops out after where it's like, you know, there, there was a couple, I don't want to name people who talked about this stuff, but there were a couple of people who mentioned like, it bothered him. Who knows if this is true. It bothered him when Tatum came back and then Tatum was announced last. And Jaylen had been announced last, but then he was announced first.

• 1:52:17Speaker 05

  You know, I, I did notice that at the.

• 1:52:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it bothered him that they hired a couple of Tatum's friends to work for the team, which is true. But none of Jaylen's friends and once it gets, once we start going into that, maybe they saw a lot more like little stuff than that, that you and I don't get to see.

• 1:52:35Speaker 05

  Well, uh, uh, fine. That's no excuse for horrendous trading. It's no excuse. It'll never convince me ever that, that was the best they could have gotten if they waited.

• 1:52:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, even when the Red Sox traded Nomar in oh, four, both of us were pretty, even though Nomar on paper was Nomar and he was one of the most famous, biggest Red Sox stars, I think of the past 35 years. He really got to like a really high level.

• 1:53:06Speaker 05

  He did.

• 1:53:07Bill Simmons?

  But he was unhappy that whole year. I remember writing a column about it in the middle of the year. Like he just looked miserable because they tried to trade him already. His defense was going sideways and they kind of sold high on him. And I, I do wonder if the Celtics, part of this was they're, they feel like they're selling high on Jaylen coming off, like him being sixth MVP, second team all NBA, carrying a team to 56.

• 1:53:31Speaker 05

  Selling high, I mean, how does that, how do you sell high?

• 1:53:35Bill Simmons?

  Well, that was the irony. They didn't sell high.

• 1:53:37Speaker 05

  They didn't sell high.

• 1:53:38Bill Simmons?

  I, it's almost like they want to get out of this before they had to attach. I, I, it's, I don't understand it. I still don't understand it. People have been asking me all summer, why'd they do this? You must know, there must be an inside story and there's really not. It just feels like they felt like he was gonna, if he didn't get an extension in July, it was gonna, it, it just was gonna start to feel like the 2019 Celtics, which was the unhappiest Celtic team of the last 10 years. I think they wanted to avoid it.

• 1:54:09Speaker 05

  I know you weren't a fan of just keep loading and loading a deal to get Yanis.

• 1:54:17Speaker 05

  You, you like Gonzalez a, a lot. If he was ever in the, in the trade.

• 1:54:21Bill Simmons?

  It would, to me it was more, I don't, I just don't think Yanis was a good bet. If you were, if you're telling me this was 2021 Yanis, of course, I would have done four picks. I would have put in Hugo, all that stuff, but I just don't think Yanis is a good bet. I've done 10, 10 podcast segments about this, like the history. You're betting on this history being the complete opposite of what we've seen from big guys as they get older and start playing less games and having more injuries. I just wouldn't have done it. And I thought their offer was pretty fair. Like I look at this stuff Milwaukee got back. I don't know. They, they, they just got back a, a poo poo platter. I would rather have Jaylen.

• 1:55:01Speaker 05

  I, I agree, yeah.

• 1:55:03Bill Simmons?

  So like, to me, it's like Jaylen and two firsts for a guy who hasn't really been healthy for, you know, reliably healthy for a long time. And I, I really, I don't know if he would have been a great fit with Tatum either. That was the other thing. So I didn't think it was a slam dunk, but.

• 1:55:20Speaker 05

  I did, but I just would have waited. Even if they went into the season with Jaylen, I mean, the crowd liked him. Boston liked him. As you mentioned, he did an awful lot of charitable work in the community.

• 1:55:32Bill Simmons?

  And we won with him. We won a title with him.

• 1:55:34Speaker 05

  With him, yep.

• 1:55:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:36Speaker 05

  I would have waited, uh, until a fair offer. You know, what people I talked to, 40 cents on the dollar we got back. That's the opinion. And it, it makes no sense with all the good moves that Brad Stevens has made. It, it was, it just made no sense.

• 1:55:54Bill Simmons?

  Well, the zag, the zag take would be Paul George was the best of the three forwards in that playoff series.

• 1:56:02Speaker 05

  In our series.

• 1:56:03Bill Simmons?

  In our series, he was the best of those three guys. He was.

• 1:56:06Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:56:06Bill Simmons?

  He did play the best.

• 1:56:08Speaker 05

  Okay. And then the next series against the Knicks.

• 1:56:10Bill Simmons?

  Not as good, yeah. Wasn't bad, though. He was, he was okay in the Knicks series, but not in.

• 1:56:15Speaker 05

  So we'll get four good games out of him this year, I guess. You know, it's not sustainable. He's always hurt. You, you had him in with the Clippers. I don't think he was your favorite player.

• 1:56:28Bill Simmons?

  He, you just never knew when he was going to show up.

• 1:56:31Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:56:32Bill Simmons?

  Now he's going to have way less pressure on the Celtics team, but.

• 1:56:36Speaker 05

  Yeah, again, I don't, not to beat the dead horse, but.

• 1:56:40Speaker 05

  The, the then LeBron James decision on top of did the Jaylen Brown going to Philly? I'm sure he never considered Philly until Jaylen Brown was there. Philly's gonna be, if they stay healthy, they're a monster. And they're, and we hate Philly. We've hated Philly for 40 years.

• 1:57:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I do. The, the funny thing about even if they get 50 games from LeBron and 48 games from Embiid, those other three guys can carry them during the regular season.

• 1:57:16Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:57:16Bill Simmons?

  We just watched it with Jaylen. Jaylen and Maxey and Edgecombe are all gonna play big minutes for them. So, you know, and then that they have a bench, they already got Caldwell Pope, who, you know, he's an 11th man at this point, but you're already seeing these veterans trying to jump on the team.

• 1:57:30Speaker 05

  And Simons.

• 1:57:30Bill Simmons?

  And they already had Simons.

• 1:57:32Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:57:32Bill Simmons?

  And they have Fylon to trade. If they want to flip him for somebody.

• 1:57:37Speaker 05

  I thought that was a great draft pick by them. He dropped.

• 1:57:41Bill Simmons?

  Well, can you, can you set the record straight for America? Cause you actually went to the games. Hugos not, I think he's 20 now. And it was the wrong narrative because it was like, oh my God, Hugh, Hugo became the deal breaker and the Celtic, that wasn't actually what was true. They just, they made one offer, they never made a second one. And then somehow he became the linchpin for why they didn't get Giannis. Putting that on the side, you loved, you loved Hugo. Like you, you thought he had a chance to be a really special player, right?

• 1:58:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, I thought Missoula underutilized him all season.

• 1:58:18Bill Simmons?

  Especially in the playoffs.

• 1:58:19Speaker 05

  Well, I thought, you know, we, we won 56 games because we went 11 or 12 deep all season long.

• 1:58:26Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:26Speaker 05

  And then we get to the playoffs against Philly and Missoula shortens the bench to like eight players.

• 1:58:32Bill Simmons?

  And played your guy Vucevic.

• 1:58:34Speaker 05

  Oh, terrible. He didn't even play game seven, he was so awful.

• 1:58:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:38Speaker 05

  Yeah. Yeah, the coaching, you know, that's another issue, but is the coach, he got so out coached in that playoff series against Philly. I mean, Nurse took him to the shed.

• 1:58:53Bill Simmons?

  He really did. The game two and game five, those two games specifically, where the Celtics had big leads at home, I think in both games.

• 1:59:02Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:59:02Bill Simmons?

  And game two, the Sixers increased the pace on them. It's a tough one. I don't know. I, I, it feels like our window closed, but we kind of knew it after 24, when they loaded up and they got Porzingis and Holiday and we'd made the finals in 22. And it felt like that 22 to 25 probably was going to be the, the real window for us. And then Tatum gets hurt and the Knicks, the two big comebacks, Tatum gets hurt.

• 1:59:32Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:59:33Bill Simmons?

  23, they lose game seven, Tatum gets hurt at the beginning of game seven.

• 1:59:37Speaker 05

  You know, when, when I look back, we never should have lost the Golden State series. We were the better team. Curry just beat us. That was our, that was a championship we let go.

• 1:59:50Bill Simmons?

  And we, I thought they ran out of gas in that, the four straight rounds, they weren't ready for it the way.

• 1:59:56Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:59:56Bill Simmons?

  You know, there is something to that. Like you could see with Wemby this year, when you haven't been through that before, playing 11 straight weeks and just having these high level playoff games over and over and over again, and teams like honing in on what your weaknesses are. And remember how good Tatum was at the beginning of those playoffs?

• 2:00:14Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:00:14Bill Simmons?

  He killed Durant. Remember he like really took Durant to the woodshed. And by the end of the finals, he was, he was a corpse. Like he just ran out of gas.

• 2:00:24Speaker 05

  He did run out of gas. Yeah, you know, that's the other question nobody wants to talk about. Do we have a hundred percent healthy Tatum?

• 2:00:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. And what happened in game seven?

• 2:00:34Speaker 05

  I don't know.

• 2:00:35Bill Simmons?

  We, we still don't know what, did he get injured? Why didn't he play? That one was slipped under the rug too. It's with the Roman Anthony finger situation.

• 2:00:44Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:00:46Bill Simmons?

  You seem, all right. So rank, rank your optimism for the four franchises right now.

• 2:00:53Speaker 05

  That's a good one.

• 2:00:54Bill Simmons?

  Patriots one?

• 2:00:55Speaker 05

  Patriots one. Red Sox two.

• 2:01:00Bill Simmons?

  Red Sox two?

• 2:01:02Speaker 05

  Bruins three.

• 2:01:03Bill Simmons?

  Oh, man. Celtics four?

• 2:01:05Speaker 05

  My favorite Celtics four. I think the Knicks and Philly are much better than we are.

• 2:01:14Bill Simmons?

  Vegas does not agree.

• 2:01:16Speaker 05

  I know. I, I saw the odds, but.

• 2:01:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, they, and there's a, there's a flip side of this coin case where you could say Tatum has all the Brown minutes from last year. Hugo and everybody's a year older, they have more depth. Mitchell Robinson, Paul George being able to do a facsimile of something.

• 2:01:37Speaker 05

  I'll tell you though, what worries me is this, these Achilles, Achilles injuries, players come back, they're 85%, maybe 90. It's tough to be a hundred percent. And it's gonna be interesting to see if Tatum goes to the basket or what his lateral movement looks like. Will he always be thinking of the, you know, he didn't, why didn't he play game seven? I mean, we've both read the same things, but to sit out of game seven, I'm sure Jaylen Brown is thinking, he sat out game seven. I was in there playing, I carried the team all year.

• 2:02:16Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:17Speaker 05

  And I got no respect. I can, I can understand that part of it.

• 2:02:22Bill Simmons?

  You know, if they win that game seven and Jaylen has like, like a heroic game seven to beat Philly, the trade doesn't happen.

• 2:02:33Speaker 05

  True, probably.

• 2:02:35Bill Simmons?

  What we never could have expected is him getting traded to Philly. Like just the, heading into Celtics are up 3-1 in round one against Philly. And if I said to you, they're gonna lose the last three and then Jaylen's gonna get traded to Philly and play with LeBron, the odds would have been like a million to one.

• 2:02:53Speaker 05

  Well, that's putting aside that we got Paul George back. If you're gonna trade Jaylen Brown and you think it's time, trade him out west.

• 2:03:01Bill Simmons?

  Nobody wanted him.

• 2:03:02Speaker 05

  Where we see him once at, at home every year.

• 2:03:05Bill Simmons?

  There wasn't a market for him. That's the other thing.

• 2:03:07Speaker 05

  Then, then wait for the market to develop.

• 2:03:09Bill Simmons?

  His teams needed to hire you as a consultant.

• 2:03:11Speaker 05

  Teams are gonna have injuries. Wait for the market to develop. Can you imagine him coming into Boston two or three times in the regular season?

• 2:03:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Well, he's in, I don't know if this is the best situation for him in Philly, but, but I guess we'll find out. But he went from, it's time for me to have my own team to him being the fourth most important person on this team.

• 2:03:34Speaker 05

  It, it's a valid point about how they're all gonna mesh with, they all want the ball.

• 2:03:39Bill Simmons?

  He's basically gonna have to be their Derrick White.

• 2:03:42Speaker 05

  Yeah. And I hadn't thought of that part. How are they all gonna mesh? But I'm thinking about our team and our starting lineup and Paul George getting injured 19 games into the season and, you know.

• 2:04:01Bill Simmons?

  Wow. Did you send your check in for the season tickets yet?

• 2:04:05Speaker 05

  I did. And maybe the Celtics are gonna be unhappy with our conversation today, but believe me, I've talked to a lot of others. I've talked to a lot of other season ticket holders who are irate, not that they traded Brown necessarily, but the package that came back.

• 2:04:26Bill Simmons?

  Well, I guess the best thing we can say is Brad Stevens has done right by us over and over again. And if he believes this was the right trade, he knows more about basketball than we do.

• 2:04:36Speaker 05

  I, I didn't realize you work for the Celtics now.

• 2:04:39Bill Simmons?

  No, I'm saying that's the only, the only thing, if you're saying, all right, how is this gonna work out? Be like, Brad Stevens been really good at this. Maybe he knows more than we do. It's the only thing I can grab onto. Cause I wouldn't have made this trade in a million years. I just would have waited. I would have waited till September. I feel like the trade's still there. And then like, who knows? Like, like maybe Detroit's in a contract feud with, with Durin. And they need to do something and they say, fuck it. We don't want to be bad this year. All right, here are five first rounders and, you know, who knows?

• 2:05:15Speaker 05

  I agree. Yeah. That's what I mean. There's still free agents that haven't signed, restricted free agents. There's still injuries that haven't occurred yet on other teams. Brown could have been very attractive to another team in October.

• 2:05:30Bill Simmons?

  All right, Dad. I'm glad the Red Sox have revived your summer. I'm glad you enjoyed the World Cup. I'm glad we were able to talk rationally about the Celtics trade. I'm glad to, we can text about.

• 2:05:40Speaker 05

  Did we talk rationally?

• 2:05:41Bill Simmons?

  Pat's training camp? I thought it was rational. Go see The Odyssey, it's only three hours.

• 2:05:45Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 2:05:46Bill Simmons?

  All right. Good to see you.

• 2:05:47Speaker 05

  Good to see you.

• 2:05:48Bill Simmons?

  Thanks. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to House, thanks to my dad, thanks to Gahow and Eduardo as well. New rewatchables, remember we're doing it live on Netflix. If you want to hear us talk about obsession, me and Chris Ryan and Joanna Robinson, it's gonna be 7:00 PM Eastern Time, 4:00 PM Pacific. We are doing a bunch of bangers in a row for rewatchables. I'm just, I'm just warning you now. Buckle up, put your seatbelt on because we're, we're gonna tear through some. Cause we're in the dog days, the dead times of, of the summer. We're basically looking at SummerSlam. The, what's the FedEx, the golf, whatever the, the playoff is for that.

• 2:06:33Bill Simmons?

  Preseason football, WNBA. I like the Lynx. I've been, I'm really into the Lynx. I already have a wager on the Lynx to win the title. I've been into them, but yeah, not a lot going on. So it's gonna be an erratic schedule for us on this podcast, but maybe one more this week. You might not see me again until Sunday. Enjoy the first part of the week.

• 2:07:14Bill Simmons?

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