GRIMES Talks Elon Musk, AI, and the End of Humanity

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Adam Friedland?

  This episode is brought to you by Major League Baseball. There is nowhere left to go. Two teams, one championship. Watch the World Series. Yeah, the World Series, presented by Capital One on Fox and Fox One. No time like October. Visit MLB.com/Postseason to learn more.

• 0:16Speaker 01

  Observe the North American dad. 50s, great polo collection. He enters his vehicle information on Carvana. An offer appears in minutes. Remarkable. He squints, reads it again, smiles and says, dang, that's a good offer. The highest form of approval. No haggling, no hassle. No one called him boss. He's still on the couch. Astonishing. Sell your car today on Carvana.com. Pickup fees may apply.

• 0:53Adam Friedland?

  What pop star really grinds your gears?

• 0:56Speaker 02

  To be honest, I'm not so tapped into pop music right now.

• 0:58Adam Friedland?

  It seems like they're all doing diss tracks on each other.

• 1:01Speaker 02

  Okay, one of the last things I saw before I went offline was the Drake Kendrick thing. I just think literary battles are good. Like Nietzsche versus Wagner.

• 1:10Adam Friedland?

  I didn't realize that the term antisemitism was like started by antisemites. They're like, it's the league of antisemitism. And Wagner was the...

• 1:19Speaker 02

  Wait, does Wagner hate the Jews?

• 1:20Adam Friedland?

  He... Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, baby.

• 1:54Adam Friedland?

  My guest this week is Canadian singer, songwriter and producer, Grimes. Well, what is there to say about Grimes? Well, first off, she's a completely normal musical artist. Not. But seriously, she's just the same as everybody else on Opposite Day. She just came into the studio to talk about her frankly, average life. Psych. She's actually had a strange life. Please enjoy my conversation with Grimes. I'm Adam Friedland and welcome back to the Adam Friedland Show. And I'll be in Denver next week, the 22nd and 24th.

• 2:29Adam Friedland?

  Ladies and gentlemen, Claire C. Grimes. Give it up for her.

• 2:34Adam Friedland?

  The new album coming out, Six Years. After six years. How's it feel?

• 2:39Speaker 02

  Uh, great.

• 2:39Adam Friedland?

  Your initial intention was to write these songs for pop artists? And they kind of like be in the background, be a little Frank Ocean action?

• 2:47Speaker 02

  Some of them, yeah.

• 2:48Adam Friedland?

  A little bit of Phil Spector style?

• 2:49Speaker 02

  Some of them. Actually, I do intend to do that in the future.

• 2:52Adam Friedland?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 2:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:54Adam Friedland?

  What, to create the wall of sound and to murder a woman?

• 2:58Speaker 02

  Um, not murder, but actually I do, I do think the wall of sound is underrated. I do think like, I like, we actually do have the album after this, or two albums after this. Or a side project I'm working on, it is like cyber 60s.

• 3:11Adam Friedland?

  It's like, uh, like the Wrecking Crew. Kind of like LA session musicians in the 60s.

• 3:16Speaker 02

  Okay, I don't know that. I only know Phil Spector.

• 3:18Adam Friedland?

  Well, that's like, Phil Spector is like gang. Yeah, obsession guys.

• 3:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:22Adam Friedland?

  And there was one lady, yeah. And they made like pet sounds and stuff.

• 3:25Speaker 02

  Oh, okay, yes, yeah.

• 3:26Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, all the girl group stuff.

• 3:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:28Adam Friedland?

  Um, so if you're sitting next to someone on a plane, they say, what do you do? You say, what do you say to them?

• 3:34Speaker 02

  I say artist, you?

• 3:35Adam Friedland?

  Artist?

• 3:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:36Adam Friedland?

  Pop star?

• 3:37Speaker 02

  No, I usually say performance artist or audio engineer.

• 3:39Adam Friedland?

  Performance artist.

• 3:39Speaker 02

  Or audio engineer.

• 3:40Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:40Speaker 02

  Trying to like be discreet.

• 3:42Adam Friedland?

  People know you as that, but obviously people know you as an ex-girlfriend also, kind of.

• 3:46Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 3:47Adam Friedland?

  Do you think is that annoying that it might overshadow art, your art at times?

• 3:51Speaker 02

  No, I actually think it's great performance art.

• 3:53Adam Friedland?

  It's performance art?

• 3:54Speaker 02

  At this point, for me, yeah. I mean, I can't...

• 3:56Adam Friedland?

  I've done a lot of performance arting with a lot of ex-girlfriends.

• 3:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, really. I actually don't know anything about you, but...

• 4:03Adam Friedland?

  No, I've never, I've never, yeah. I've never had a girlfriend.

• 4:06Speaker 02

  Oh, because I am doing a matchmaking service.

• 4:08Adam Friedland?

  Really?

• 4:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, if you want.

• 4:09Adam Friedland?

  Like, what is it leaning, what way? How?

• 4:11Speaker 02

  I'm just getting, so far I only have men looking for girlfriends, but I will get some.

• 4:16Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, because you're, you hang out in the tech sector.

• 4:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. But you know, like, searching for cool women to, you know.

• 4:25Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, and so you've hooked up zero people thus far?

• 4:29Speaker 02

  So far, zero.

• 4:29Adam Friedland?

  Okay, so they give you... You're a Canadian, like, you rep Canada?

• 4:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, I so rep Canada.

• 4:37Adam Friedland?

  Yeah.

• 4:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:38Adam Friedland?

  What does being Canadian mean? You're from French Canada.

• 4:42Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 4:42Adam Friedland?

  You grew up in Chinese Canada.

• 4:44Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 4:45Adam Friedland?

  Okay. It's kind of a weird place.

• 4:47Speaker 02

  Honestly, the older I get, the more I rep Canada. I just, also, most of the cool Americans are Canadians.

• 4:52Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, really?

• 4:53Speaker 02

  We're like in disguise, like, I've been involved in multiple political campaigns recently and like everyone in the campaign is Canadian. Like, we are literally, like, taking over America.

• 5:02Adam Friedland?

  That's happening?

• 5:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:04Adam Friedland?

  We're letting Canadians run?

• 5:06Speaker 02

  We're not running, but we're like doing all the political work.

• 5:08Adam Friedland?

  Oh, no. Um, yeah, what's the most Canadian thing about you?

• 5:13Speaker 02

  I love saying sorry. I love apologizing and like, I think...

• 5:19Adam Friedland?

  I feel like that should be the national motto. I feel like it's a country of people who are just saying sorry.

• 5:23Speaker 02

  It's so, yeah, it's just, it's so chill to just like...

• 5:27Adam Friedland?

  They're constantly saying sorry.

• 5:29Speaker 02

  Just constantly saying sorry. I don't know, it's just, it's just like, instead of excuse me or something else and, I don't know.

• 5:34Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, I guess artistically it has punched above its weight, right?

• 5:38Speaker 02

  Canada, yeah.

• 5:38Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have, of course, the boys, Drake, you got Rush, Neil, Joni.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  Bieber, like, what's her name? Damn cold night.

• 5:48Adam Friedland?

  Do you have a relationship with Justin?

• 5:50Speaker 02

  I don't, I don't know. The Weeknd?

• 5:53Adam Friedland?

  The Weeknd?

• 5:54Speaker 02

  What's her name?

• 5:55Adam Friedland?

  Party next door?

• 5:56Speaker 02

  Huh?

• 5:56Adam Friedland?

  Party next door?

• 5:57Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Is he Canadian?

• 5:58Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, of course.

• 5:59Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, I feel like it's very cold in Canada, so there's not much to do. So I think there's more, like, people hone their craft. A lot of engineers are from Canada, a lot of aerospace engineers are from Canada.

• 6:10Adam Friedland?

  Some of the best comedians are also...

• 6:12Speaker 02

  Yes, Nathan Fielder is Canadian.

• 6:13Adam Friedland?

  Nora MacDonald.

• 6:14Speaker 02

  A lot of comedians are from Vancouver.

• 6:16Adam Friedland?

  Do you think it's the same shit as here or is it different?

• 6:18Speaker 02

  I think the public school system is really good, honestly. It selects for a lot of political dissidents, like Vietnam, people escaping Vietnam, like people from Hong Kong. A lot of my friends' parents, like, a lot of, just a lot of people have really weird parents. Like, a lot of people have like kind of political weird parents. And so I think it just sort of selects, it's like this, like a whole country of like, like, you know, conscientious objectors or something.

• 6:43Adam Friedland?

  Is that kind of like where you became interested in Eastern culture?

• 6:47Speaker 02

  I think so.

• 6:47Adam Friedland?

  Yeah.

• 6:48Speaker 02

  My high school, or my, yeah, was over 50% English second language.

• 6:52Adam Friedland?

  Yeah.

• 6:52Speaker 02

  I mean, I think the big thing for me is I'm Year of the Dragon.

• 6:55Adam Friedland?

  Okay.

• 6:55Speaker 02

  So I just like really relate to Chinese culture, because like...

• 6:58Adam Friedland?

  You're 88?

• 6:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, 88.

• 7:00Adam Friedland?

  87.

• 7:01Speaker 02

  Oh, nice, so you just, well, are you what, a rat? Oh, sorry, sorry, no, you're a serpent?

• 7:08Adam Friedland?

  Probably a bug or something, yeah. Do you have a lot of friends?

• 7:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I did have a lot of friends, but also I always had a lot of...

• 7:14Adam Friedland?

  You're a popular weird?

• 7:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I had enemies, I always had a lot of enemies and a lot of friends.

• 7:18Adam Friedland?

  Who were they?

• 7:19Speaker 02

  I don't know, just people taking issue with my stuff.

• 7:23Adam Friedland?

  Really?

• 7:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, my vibes.

• 7:25Adam Friedland?

  Did you have to step to the bullies?

• 7:27Speaker 02

  No, but I think I always had enough friends where it didn't bother me so much. Like, I think if I didn't have friends, it would be, it would have been bad, but like, I always kind of have like at least a couple of quite good friends.

• 7:38Adam Friedland?

  Your family went on a trip to Auschwitz when you were a kid? Is that when you got into that type of guy?

• 7:43Speaker 02

  It was Dachau. Hey? Oh, my God.

• 7:52Adam Friedland?

  Oh, we have this friend, a friend of the show. What? Hitler, I'm talking about...

• 7:57Speaker 02

  It was actually the 2006 World Cup.

• 7:59Adam Friedland?

  I met Jewish guys that are skinny, obviously. When do you, like, what did you want to do? Like, when you were like, like, I guess in your adolescence, like...

• 8:10Speaker 02

  I wanted to be an artist and then my parents were like, obviously...

• 8:13Adam Friedland?

  Don't do that, stupid.

• 8:14Speaker 02

  We have to have a job that makes money.

• 8:15Adam Friedland?

  Yeah.

• 8:15Speaker 02

  Um, and then I really got into, first year of college, I really got into neuroscience and stuff, because all my friends were in neuroscience. And then, but then obviously you don't make any money. So I switched neuroscience, which was also upsetting to my parents because they're not a lot of money.

• 8:29Adam Friedland?

  It's like small science.

• 8:31Speaker 02

  Um, it's like, the brain, the brain and stuff. Miguel has a really good program for that.

• 8:36Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so what was your first beat?

• 8:39Speaker 02

  It was more in neuroscience class. It was a, we just had to prove that we learned the audio, we had to like, like one day to learn like logic and Max MSP, which is kind of crazy, or like a weekend, so that we could, um, you know, like test tones and like test the ear or whatever, like test the brain. So they were like, yeah, just make something so like, we know you did it. And, but I, me and my friend got like way into it and just ended up making like multiple songs. And it's so funny because everyone else's song was Obama's speech over classical music, like literally everybody else.

• 9:09Adam Friedland?

  What? Oh, because it was 2008? Yeah, I guess it was because...

• 9:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, it would have been around 2007, 2008, yeah. And, but also I think it's just easy to take a speech and then put it over music.

• 9:21Adam Friedland?

  What was your song?

• 9:23Speaker 02

  Um, it was like, um, Grimes' Fairy Tales, like interpretation, like rap over hip, like...

• 9:27Adam Friedland?

  Do you have it?

• 9:29Speaker 02

  I could probably get it.

• 9:31Adam Friedland?

  Can we, we got to listen.

• 9:33Speaker 02

  We can try, we can try.

• 9:34Adam Friedland?

  It's your first track?

• 9:35Speaker 02

  It's my first track.

• 9:35Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had MIA, her first song was like one of the hits.

• 9:40Speaker 02

  Really?

• 9:41Adam Friedland?

  That was like her first song.

• 9:42Speaker 02

  Damn.

• 9:42Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, yeah. It was like Kala or like MIA or like one of the, it was just the first song.

• 9:48Speaker 02

  Sick.

• 9:48Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 9:49Speaker 02

  I mean, that was a good era because it, like, I do think there was this kind of like realization a lot of people had all at the same time over the early, in the early computer generation, like, oh, you don't need to know shit about music. You can just take something, loop it, you know, just take a beat, take a cool, like a sample, loop it, say something over it. And, you know, it's only one step above the Obama speech.

• 10:05Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 10:06Speaker 02

  But, yeah.

• 10:07Adam Friedland?

  How many years between like you just starting to fuck around and like 2012, like your big breakthrough was it?

• 10:15Speaker 02

  I think like a year or something like it was not long.

• 10:18Adam Friedland?

  It was one year.

• 10:20Speaker 02

  I I would say also like I mean my first album didn't go but like a lot of the first music I made was like MySpace viral and then I think I made Visions like about a year after that.

• 10:32Adam Friedland?

  So you were in MySpace era you would say.

• 10:34Speaker 02

  Like the end of it.

• 10:35Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, are you like out of college at that point or you're barely out of college?

• 10:39Speaker 02

  I was I think I was in college but pretending I was still in college.

• 10:43Adam Friedland?

  People ask you all the time about you and your boyfriend at the time wanted to do a trip where you built a house and you wanted to ride the house down the Mississippi River.

• 10:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:52Adam Friedland?

  And and then the house sunk?

• 10:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, the house was destroyed.

• 10:57Adam Friedland?

  How long did it take for you to realize that the house wasn't gonna?

• 11:00Speaker 02

  Basically as soon as it got out of the water, I realized.

• 11:04Adam Friedland?

  How long how long did you spend building that?

• 11:06Speaker 02

  We spent like a month building it, like we spent a very long time building it, so it was um.

• 11:10Adam Friedland?

  And you did you find out that it was illegal also?

• 11:13Speaker 02

  Yes, well, no, we didn't know it was illegal, um, but uh we knew that if we if you put a

• 11:20Adam Friedland?

  A house.

• 11:20Speaker 02

  A heavy, uh, what's it called?

• 11:22Adam Friedland?

  Ding on the water.

• 11:23Speaker 02

  Anchor, as long as you're not on the on the side or international park, it's fine, so you can be anchored.

• 11:28Adam Friedland?

  You got famous fast. Did it feel that way?

• 11:34Speaker 02

  Not so much. I don't really understand other people's opinion of it. I've like realized with each passing year, I've realized more and more that I don't understand.

• 11:41Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 11:42Speaker 02

  I only realized this year that I'm mentally modeling everyone completely wrong and I have no idea like what people are thinking.

• 11:48Adam Friedland?

  What were your like uh influences, like primary influences going into music?

• 11:52Speaker 02

  Favorite artist at the time was probably Beryl.

• 11:54Adam Friedland?

  You were inspired by Britney Spears?

• 11:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, it was so crazy because at at the time I did think, so I grew, I was very alternative growing up and then I like got into pop music and like I discovered pop music in like twenty eleven or so or twenty twelve or twenty ten.

• 12:07Adam Friedland?

  That that's kind of what you were part of, like the like hyper pop or whatever people would call it, but it was like

• 12:12Speaker 02

  It's like proto, it was like the pop-optimist now.

• 12:15Adam Friedland?

  It was like the indie indie was going pop at that time.

• 12:18Speaker 02

  It it was, yeah, it was sort of like um like at the time it was like there, I feel like there's always this like you know, alternative and pop, like very separate thing. And then with the internet, I think it's just, you know, it's the internet. It's like you don't have to run through gatekeepers. You don't have to run through a label and it's just everything just starts merging. So um yeah, people started, I I just was like, ooh, it's so crazy though because I thought I was making like just like super pop. I thought there was like no difference in some ways between like me and Max Martin, which is like very delusional.

• 12:46Adam Friedland?

  What was your concept of like pop though? Like what like and like using it as like a kind of a reference point in your art?

• 12:53Speaker 02

  I just really, for me, because I was like in a very sort of like strict scene that was like very like we are alternative and I had a lot of friends who were like just like very, very like counterculture, which now I respect. Now I sort of like regret. Like I I sort of think there should be a church and state like pop and alternative.

• 13:12Adam Friedland?

  Really?

• 13:13Speaker 02

  Well, because it just sort of hurts alternative music if it's like in the same.

• 13:16Adam Friedland?

  Commodified.

• 13:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, like you like I I think we're in sort of like a tricky time where we're running everything through the same system and

• 13:22Adam Friedland?

  Yeah.

• 13:23Speaker 02

  It's it's not necessarily the best thing for like smaller artists and artists who want to be independent, but like uh uh at the time I was sort of like I wanted to like poke their buttons and like I don't know, I just honestly, I was just trying to like be viral like in my little community or something by like

• 13:38Adam Friedland?

  Yeah.

• 13:38Speaker 02

  sort of doing the opposite, I guess.

• 13:40Adam Friedland?

  Trying to be hood famous, they call it.

• 13:43Speaker 02

  Perhaps, yeah.

• 13:44Adam Friedland?

  That's what the rappers that have had on the show say.

• 13:46Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 13:46Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, but you didn't think it was gonna blow up.

• 13:48Speaker 02

  I was surprised, yeah.

• 13:49Adam Friedland?

  Who else were your major influences?

• 13:51Speaker 02

  Resner, like Billy Corgan, like the people who are kind of being like I am a producer and an artist were like my big influences, like the sort of like auteur thing. Um, you know, yeah.

• 14:00Adam Friedland?

  Yeah. What about Michael, you were saying Michael Blackson?

• 14:04Speaker 02

  I don't know what that that is.

• 14:05Adam Friedland?

  Ja- Jackson, Michael Jackson?

• 14:08Speaker 02

  Did I say that? Probably at the time.

• 14:10Adam Friedland?

  Was a big influence on you?

• 14:11Speaker 02

  Oh, probably. I had like

• 14:12Adam Friedland?

  I was a huge fan.

• 14:14Speaker 02

  I do like Michael Jackson. I I'm not like so, it's not like a lifelong influence, but I was probably in a moment really into Michael Jackson.

• 14:19Adam Friedland?

  Well, when I was a kid, I would like watch uh his videos on TV and then I'd like grab my crotch and my parents caught me and they'd be like he's a very sick man. I didn't know what that was about, but I was like

• 14:35Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, I remember as a kid uh seeing the video for uh They Don't Care About Us, which was like the pissed off Michael era.

• 14:42Speaker 02

  I've not seen, I love that song.

• 14:46Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 14:47Speaker 02

  I don't know the videos, but

• 14:48Adam Friedland?

  Were you broke prior to that?

• 14:50Speaker 02

  Pretty broke, yeah.

• 14:51Adam Friedland?

  Yeah. And then you like, what, you got an apartment or something? You were still in Montreal?

• 14:56Speaker 02

  In twenty twelve? Yeah, I went back to my parents' house at probably like twenty thirteen.

• 15:01Adam Friedland?

  Oh, okay.

• 15:02Speaker 02

  Just because like I was mostly touring, so I just kept my stuff there.

• 15:05Adam Friedland?

  Yeah.

• 15:06Speaker 02

  And then I came to America in twenty fourteen.

• 15:08Adam Friedland?

  You moved to LA? Or you moved to Silicon Valley?

• 15:11Speaker 02

  No, LA.

• 15:12Adam Friedland?

  LA.

• 15:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:13Adam Friedland?

  Who like were your, did you have baby bros?

• 15:16Speaker 02

  I have two biological brothers and two stepbrothers.

• 15:19Adam Friedland?

  No, I mean in in music.

• 15:21Speaker 02

  Oh, music?

• 15:21Adam Friedland?

  Artistically, yeah. What changed about your life, I guess, becoming a successful pop star like? What did you have to come to grips with? Obviously, you're an anonymous person and all of a sudden a lot of people know who you are. Like, how did you how were you able to kind of like uh manage that?

• 15:37Speaker 02

  I think I

• 15:39Speaker 02

  it's not been so crazy. Honestly, I I stay pretty offline and most of my friends are kind of um like not like my friends are kind of nor- normal people. People in general became nicer in real life and me or on the internet.

• 15:52Adam Friedland?

  Did you learn to be like distrustful of people? Was it kind of?

• 15:56Speaker 02

  No, which was a mistake.

• 15:58Adam Friedland?

  Here's the image I have is like you're in the middle of like this like of the Williamsburg era of culture.

• 16:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:06Adam Friedland?

  And then five years later, you're in the middle of like the end of the world era, part of culture. Like what inspired you to move to, what inspired your fascination with Silicon Valley and technology?

• 16:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, I moved out to the Bay. Um, well, I would preface that Grimes was always a very tech-oriented project.

• 16:23Adam Friedland?

  Yeah.

• 16:24Speaker 02

  I I think the context around me changed, but you know, I mean, the thing everyone liked about it in the first place and everything was like the producer aspect, the sci-fi aspect.

• 16:32Adam Friedland?

  Yeah.

• 16:32Speaker 02

  Like that was, I I I do, I like I would argue that

• 16:36Adam Friedland?

  There's a futurist aspect to it too, yeah.

• 16:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I I've been pretty interested, but yeah, like so when I was a kid, my dad um was like kind of he wanted to give us moral instruction, but he didn't want to use the Bible. Like I still went to Catholic school and stuff, but we used like, he used mostly Dune and Lord of the Rings.

• 16:55Adam Friedland?

  Are you low-key like Benny Jesuit style?

• 16:57Speaker 02

  No, I'm high-key Benny Jesuit.

• 16:59Adam Friedland?

  You're kind of, you're, that's your aspiration to be Benny Jesuit.

• 17:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, my friends and I are actively actively working on it.

• 17:04Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 17:04Speaker 02

  Like my friend Lilian's

• 17:05Adam Friedland?

  The box that that has an ex- Christian?

• 17:07Speaker 02

  We have not created the box.

• 17:09Adam Friedland?

  Okay.

• 17:09Speaker 02

  Um, my friend Lilian's writing though, like a huge, she's writing the manifesto. She wants to abbreviate it to Jesuit.

• 17:15Adam Friedland?

  You think your friend's going for Reverend Mother or maybe maybe?

• 17:18Speaker 02

  I think her Twitter might be Reverend Mother. I I I don't want to be Reverend Mother.

• 17:22Adam Friedland?

  You don't want to be, you just want to be Lady Jessica.

• 17:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, more or less.

• 17:26Adam Friedland?

  Lady Jessica, I think.

• 17:27Speaker 02

  I love, I I do think Lady Jessica is a is a profound character, um

• 17:32Adam Friedland?

  Yeah.

• 17:32Speaker 02

  Uh underrated character in the history of literature. I I think it's a really innovative character. I I think the the depiction of motherhood that you see in Lady Jessica is is really something new.

• 17:41Adam Friedland?

  Sure.

• 17:42Speaker 02

  You know, uh and so I I think in that regard, it's like she's like popular and people love her, but I don't know if she's like historically rated and I think she should be.

• 17:49Adam Friedland?

  In becoming a mother, you've you've taken notes from Lady Jessica of Dune?

• 17:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:54Adam Friedland?

  Really?

• 17:55Speaker 02

  I'm gonna get roasted for this.

• 17:57Adam Friedland?

  So you have a Paul Atreides kind of uh child? You think X is Paul Atreides?

• 18:01Speaker 02

  I don't, I don't want to talk about my kids specifically.

• 18:04Adam Friedland?

  Okay.

• 18:04Speaker 02

  Um, but I do feel the weight of the responsibility of like where they go on in life.

• 18:10Adam Friedland?

  What was the thought behind moving to Silicon Valley? Was it to be the hottest girl?

• 18:14Speaker 02

  No, but being in SF ten is a huge

• 18:17Adam Friedland?

  You wouldn't go there?

• 18:18Speaker 02

  Life upgrade.

• 18:18Adam Friedland?

  You like go to special education so you can be the smartest kid?

• 18:21Speaker 02

  It was not intentional, but I will say, I will say, because also SF desperately needs more women. Um, uh, which is really important. There's some Australian girl who did some like like meme about we need to move forty thousand art hoes to San Francisco to teach engineers about love so that they don't destroy the world, and that is fundamentally extremely true.

• 18:39Adam Friedland?

  It sounds like sex trafficking, you know?

• 18:41Speaker 02

  No, but just like there needs to be more, we like, but anyway, if you're extremely like I I would say I'm like about a seven point five.

• 18:48Adam Friedland?

  In SF?

• 18:49Speaker 02

  And in San Francisco, I'm like a ten or a

• 18:51Adam Friedland?

  No, you're down on yourself seven point five. You're you're one of your iconic

• 18:55Speaker 02

  Seven point five is quite good.

• 18:56Adam Friedland?

  You know, you're an iconic uh sex symbol, pop star sex symbol. You're not seven point five.

• 19:01Speaker 02

  I'm not a sex, I'm not a sex symbol.

• 19:02Adam Friedland?

  You are a sex symbol, I think.

• 19:04Speaker 02

  I don't want to be.

• 19:05Adam Friedland?

  Well, I don't want to be either, but that's what they say.

• 19:10Adam Friedland?

  So you lived there to be the hottest chick. You wanted to be surrounded by disruptors. What was it like? What was it like being around disruptors? Like, could you even get a sentence out?

• 19:19Speaker 02

  Honestly, it was so fun. It was so fun. I, I.

• 19:22Adam Friedland?

  You missed the, did you miss my joke?

• 19:25Speaker 02

  No, yes, I.

• 19:25Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, yeah. Could you even, could you even finish a sentence? All these industry disruptors.

• 19:32Speaker 02

  Wait, were you?

• 19:32Adam Friedland?

  Hey, I'm talking here.

• 19:34Speaker 02

  Oh, okay. Sorry. I didn't get the joke.

• 19:36Adam Friedland?

  What was it like being like, uh, uh, being around those people? Did you feel, feel like you met like-minded individuals like? Or they were into the same shit as you or?

• 19:45Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, so I, I, I do, I kind of want to continue what I was saying before, which is, um.

• 19:50Adam Friedland?

  Oh, yeah. I'm a disruptor.

• 19:53Speaker 02

  No, no, it's please, please disrupt. I love interrupting and everyone interrupting and not having to think about.

• 19:57Adam Friedland?

  That's why you're a disruptor.

• 19:59Speaker 02

  So I am literally an interrupter, like I, I have to try to stop. So, so it's good. If, if you interrupt more than me, then I feel less. Bad.

• 20:06Adam Friedland?

  We're both, we're both annoying, but sex symbols.

• 20:08Speaker 02

  Um.

• 20:09Adam Friedland?

  We're both annoying sex symbols.

• 20:12Speaker 02

  Um.

• 20:13Adam Friedland?

  Wait, what's some of what you were saying? Sorry.

• 20:14Speaker 02

  My dad like super AI killed me when I was like a little kid. Cause you know, we were so into Dune that my dad was like thinking machines, like, you know, thinking machines will destroy the world. Like, and so I really grew up, like, I remember as a little kid, like, like waking up in the night and looking out the window and just being like, ah, it sucks. Like they'll probably not invent AI till way after.

• 20:30Adam Friedland?

  Yeah.

• 20:31Speaker 02

  You know, like, like I specifically thought about this a lot. And I remember just thinking like, wow, okay, Dune is really prophetic because, um, like, first of all, it's kind of predicting the oil wars at the time when I like.

• 20:42Adam Friedland?

  The spice.

• 20:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, um, and, and just, there's just so many insights in Dune. I, I feel like it gets like a bad rap and people say it's kind of like noob sci-fi or whatever. But I, I just remember thinking like, yeah, I mean, that's just such an obvious insight about AI. And sort of like being like, I'm sort of surprised this isn't a bigger part of the conversation. Um, and so, um, I started realizing there was sort of an arms race happening in maybe like 2018, 2019, just because, like, I started like hanging out with people and like, like realizing everything that was going on.

• 21:10Adam Friedland?

  Yeah.

• 21:10Speaker 02

  Um, and that was really cra- and then I was like, I need to make art about this. And then all the AI safety people were like, you cannot make art about this because the public can't find out about it because it will accelerate race dynamics.

• 21:18Adam Friedland?

  Yeah.

• 21:18Speaker 02

  Which it is, race dynamics have kind of accelerated since this is more of a public situation.

• 21:22Adam Friedland?

  Race dynamics in terms of, uh, the AI race or human beings' races?

• 21:28Speaker 02

  Like, um, humans, uh, doing like, like racing for capabilities.

• 21:31Adam Friedland?

  Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah.

• 21:32Speaker 02

  Um, or, and AI, you know, but.

• 21:34Adam Friedland?

  So your album would accelerate it?

• 21:36Speaker 02

  Well, I do think probably it, like, if a lot of people started talking about race dynamics in public in like 2021, that would be bad. Like, I just started realizing, you know, it's like not cool to talk about this. Or like at, at first, before it was even not cool to talk about it, I was like, I, I, around 2022, I was like, I have to get to ground zero because it's like a singularity. And, uh, it seemed like there wasn't a lot of artists there and there aren't even a lot of journalists there. And I, I still think it's woefully covered by journalism. Um, and, you know, a lot of the coolest things about it remain like, are, are not things that are commonly covered, but.

• 22:08Adam Friedland?

  What are the coolest things about it?

• 22:10Speaker 02

  My favorite things about it are the sort of like AI psychology sector, you know, like, um.

• 22:15Adam Friedland?

  People that work in that field?

• 22:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, uh.

• 22:17Adam Friedland?

  I just had Nate Sores on the show.

• 22:19Speaker 02

  Oh, you had Nate Sores?

• 22:20Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, maybe depressed.

• 22:22Speaker 02

  Well, Nate's a, a bit of a.

• 22:24Adam Friedland?

  But I have a weak brain, so if someone says anything, I, I'm like, that sounds right.

• 22:28Speaker 02

  I think, um, it's a Nate's POV is important. I, I don't like fully agree with Nate, but I think it's important for somebody to be constantly acknowledging that if you make something way smarter than you, that is pretty dangerous.

• 22:39Adam Friedland?

  You think it's gonna usher in the end of the world?

• 22:42Speaker 02

  I think probably not. I think there will probably be.

• 22:45Adam Friedland?

  Sick. Okay, now I feel better.

• 22:47Speaker 02

  Well, well, well, uh, with, I, I, I think likely there will be some, like a bad warning shot. And this will have to force international relations, uh, in a more profound, in more like serious way.

• 22:58Adam Friedland?

  Yeah. What do people not understand about what, what happens in that space?

• 23:03Speaker 02

  I do, I actually do think some of the, like, a lot of the criticism is correct. Like, there's been a lack of cultural accountability, well, sort of, um, benefiting from making vast cultural changes. And also kind of like testing those cultural changes out on like kids. I, I'm very bullish on the good and very against the bad at the same time. And I, I, I think what's cool about Silicon Valley and what people do misunderstand is there are a lot of people who are very bullish on the good. And who are, you know, solving diseases, like, you know, we've basically cured LDL cholesterol this year. Like, there is like a cancer vaccine now, you know?

• 23:35Adam Friedland?

  Cancer vaccine?

• 23:35Speaker 02

  Yes. Now it's like a couple of days ago, I think.

• 23:38Adam Friedland?

  And so when you were talking about like, uh, kids being beta testers, is that, is that like influenced by your parenting?

• 23:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, it's very disturbing. My biggest thing is I just, it's so disturbing to see what kids or what screens do to kids.

• 23:53Adam Friedland?

  Yeah.

• 23:53Speaker 02

  You know, um, like if you've never seen, like, I don't know if you're around kids, but if you've ever seen a kid fiending for a screen and the degree to which they resemble a drug addict, it's, it's profoundly disturbing.

• 24:03Adam Friedland?

  Uh huh.

• 24:03Speaker 02

  And I think we've really just given no thought to this. This is something that's just like blatantly a part of a culture. And, um, very young kids at very young ages are being exposed to screens like during, like important developmental times for their brain. We have to constantly de-screen them.

• 24:19Adam Friedland?

  Yeah.

• 24:19Speaker 02

  And it's like, I'm like, this is insane. I'm surely there's going to be some damage caused just by even, like the, the fact that we have to do these de-screening things where you basically have to keep them outside for a day or else they're like crazy. Is, you know, like, I'm like, I'm like, this is scary.

• 24:33Adam Friedland?

  Yeah.

• 24:33Speaker 02

  And, and when sometimes we meet other kids, uh, who are in deep trouble with it. And, you know, I, I quite worry about this, um, especially because, you know, I think like addiction is, like teaching, like giving people addictive things from young ages. And I think there's a lot of things that we give kids that we've taken for granted, you know, it's, I tried to keep my kids off sugar as long as possible. The first time they have sugar, they never want to eat anything else ever again. And I think a lot of people, it's like, you know, I was talking to my brother about this, because one of my brothers has kids too. And he was like, he was like, yeah, it was just game over. Once my kids had like one ice cream. He's like, it was just game over. It's like, he like, we kept it off for like a year and a half and then they finally got an ice cream. And then it's, they're toast. And it's like, we're one-shotting kids with like everything in this culture.

• 25:16Adam Friedland?

  Yeah.

• 25:17Speaker 02

  Um, you know, I think the screens are even, you know, I, I, yeah, I think things like the, like the fact you get on an airplane and there's just sort of like some sweet snacks or something is, is actually a big problem.

• 25:27Adam Friedland?

  Yeah.

• 25:28Speaker 02

  But anyway.

• 25:29Adam Friedland?

  One like major aspect of your life the last six years. You're kind of returning to music and from like, we look at all your comments, it looks like people thought you left music to be the adult, right? I think that's kind of what they think.

• 25:41Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 25:41Adam Friedland?

  Do you think you've caught any shrapnel from the opinion on, uh, your ex-partner?

• 25:45Speaker 02

  I think I've caught quite a bit.

• 25:47Speaker 03

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• 26:50Speaker 05

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• 27:18Speaker 04

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• 27:45Speaker 02

  The shrapnel.

• 27:46Adam Friedland?

  At a personal level, you're, you know, in a relationship with the, with the most powerful, powerful man on earth?

• 27:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:54Adam Friedland?

  Yeah. I guess he doesn't have nukes. But like, I guess it's.

• 27:58Speaker 02

  I mean, he's got an army now.

• 28:00Adam Friedland?

  Did you consider dating maybe Putin after?

• 28:04Speaker 02

  Um, I actually know somebody who did date Putin because it's crazy.

• 28:07Adam Friedland?

  You know someone that did?

• 28:11Adam Friedland?

  How about, just see, like, what's the next step up? Mohammed bin Salman? Is your way of speaking about it, like looking at the new album, right? Let's, let's pivot. Is your way of speaking about your experiences, is that your outlet?

• 28:24Speaker 02

  Yes. Yeah, yeah. Cause first of all, I'm not going to talk about it, not in art. Also, because I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing. I think it's very bad for everyone around me that I dragged through it.

• 28:33Adam Friedland?

  Yeah.

• 28:34Speaker 02

  You know, like my family and my kids and stuff, like that it's like one of the last things I think about before I die will be, like, be feeling bad about that, but, uh, like from my perspective, I really like, turning things positive, like the nice thing about art is you can take anything that's super fucking sucked and turn it into something that is, makes you feel really good and is awesome. And now let's move on.

• 29:00Adam Friedland?

  Has X told you some funny stuff about Trump? Like Trump farted or something?

• 29:08Speaker 02

  Not really.

• 29:10Adam Friedland?

  He said he smells like, uh, Neosporin or.

• 29:14Speaker 02

  I, I don't want to.

• 29:15Adam Friedland?

  I don't know. I'm trying to have a viral moment on this show right now.

• 29:18Speaker 02

  I just don't want to talk about the kids.

• 29:20Adam Friedland?

  Yeah.

• 29:20Speaker 02

  He does speak, I'm gonna, actually, no, okay, no, no, no.

• 29:23Adam Friedland?

  Wait, just tell me something funny that X said about Trump.

• 29:25Speaker 02

  Can you, can you bleep it out?

• 29:27Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, about Trump's fat ass. Yeah, bleep it out.

• 29:29Speaker 02

  No, you just said, he said.

• 29:36Adam Friedland?

  What?

• 29:37Speaker 02

  Why? I don't know if this is true, but it's like a very specific thing to say.

• 29:42Adam Friedland?

  How old is he, five at this time, at this point?

• 29:44Speaker 02

  He's six.

• 29:44Adam Friedland?

  Six, he's right.

• 29:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:46Adam Friedland?

  I think he's right.

• 29:46Speaker 02

  We really have to bleep that out.

• 29:47Adam Friedland?

  That'll be bleeped out, that's hilarious, though.

• 29:49Speaker 02

  Um.

• 29:50Adam Friedland?

  So, let's get to the new album. Um, correct me if I'm wrong, the album is kind of a mea culpa on your like optimism about AI. Is it a little bit like, I got some things wrong?

• 30:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know if it's, it's called psy-opera, and so it's like about the psy-ops in general. It's about the psy-ops I went through during the trial.

• 30:06Adam Friedland?

  Yeah.

• 30:07Speaker 02

  It's about the psy-ops we're all going through as a culture.

• 30:09Adam Friedland?

  Yeah.

• 30:09Speaker 02

  I would say it's, it's more about the future of the human mind than the future of, like, technology.

• 30:15Adam Friedland?

  Did you use AI to produce it? Because I know that's a very, uh, controversial thing.

• 30:19Speaker 02

  I did not use AI to produce it.

• 30:21Adam Friedland?

  So you used RI to make an album about AI?

• 30:24Speaker 02

  Ri, RI?

• 30:26Adam Friedland?

  Real Intelligence.

• 30:28Speaker 02

  I, I actually don't think it's about AI mostly. I think it's mostly about the human response.

• 30:32Adam Friedland?

  And your comment is like, people are mad, get mad at you a lot? Um.

• 30:36Speaker 02

  Which I think is actually kind of fair, because...

• 30:38Adam Friedland?

  You think? Because you've been around like, uh, reactionary figures or something, or?

• 30:43Speaker 02

  Um, uh, well, I recently, uh, was talking to some young people, like my friend did like this AI, um, sort of workshop thing, and like AI safety workshop thing, and there was a bunch of like, I don't know, like, young people there, um, who are more on the AI, very much on the AI safety side. And they gave me a good, like, talking to. It was really useful to me because, um, uh, I thought the criticism was kind of valid. Because I've kind of been like, why is everyone so mad? You know, like, I get why they're mad about like, whatever, um, Elon and stuff like that. Um, I, I don't, which I, I just, as an artist, I think it's, um, really important for me to go places other people aren't gonna go.

• 31:25Speaker 02

  There's nothing I can change about, like, about that.

• 31:30Adam Friedland?

  The timeline from like, 285K to the end of the world in five years is just like, you've lived a wild one.

• 31:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:39Adam Friedland?

  Do you think it's a normal life? I mean, like, you've really just, some people, I just would go home, they go to the factory, they go home, they watch The Office, and then, then, fa- forty years later, they die.

• 31:51Adam Friedland?

  You haven't had a life like that, right?

• 31:53Speaker 02

  No, no, I mean, I, I, um, my, one of my mottos is, at least it's not boring.

• 31:58Adam Friedland?

  At least it's not boring, yeah.

• 31:59Speaker 02

  Um, so, I, I, with kids, it's a bit harder. With kids, you wanna provide, I think, more stability. Um, so I'm doing, I'm trying to be a lot more responsible now, but, um, uh, in general, I, you know, I, I would say I actively seek out the craziest situation I can safely be in these days.

• 32:19Adam Friedland?

  Yeah.

• 32:19Speaker 02

  Um, and I do think that's something that's a bit misunderstood about me. Um, you know, I, I think, because I think that's the artist's job.

• 32:27Adam Friedland?

  Yeah.

• 32:27Speaker 02

  And I also, yeah, I think it's really important for artists to be, to be at ground zero of the singularity. I, uh, um, there's not really a lot of other artists there, and this is like, one of the craziest things that will ever happen in the history of humankind.

• 32:42Adam Friedland?

  Yeah.

• 32:42Speaker 02

  And, um, I think avoiding it is not a good idea. I think it's not super smart. Um.

• 32:48Adam Friedland?

  Do you think that, like, the response to like, anyone in music getting caught using AI, like, people getting so furious, it's good because it's like, made us like, appreciate our artists more, maybe?

• 32:57Speaker 02

  This is where I actually think, like, there's some constructive elements to this. I do think people are really feeling, like, I mean, I feel the, the, like, intensity of like, like, the value of human life. Human life seems very expensive to me right now.

• 33:11Adam Friedland?

  Yeah.

• 33:12Speaker 02

  You know, um, it, and I think to everyone it does, it, you know, it's, um, and, and again, that's kind of, you know, that's the psy-opera, that's the stuff I'm really interested in, is like, how much of this is, is us sort of spiraling in our minds? I do think the AI art is mostly probably, this could be a bad prediction, I think it's mostly probably gonna kind of go away. I don't think it makes a lot of financial sense for these companies. Um, and I think it's mostly to get data to like, understand, understand physics and stuff. I think it's mostly been a data gathering exercise.

• 33:40Adam Friedland?

  Yeah.

• 33:41Speaker 02

  Um, uh, I, this, this is conjecture, but people don't really like AI music. I've gotten some like decent outputs, once every three or four year, or three or four months, I like, go and see where it's at.

• 33:53Adam Friedland?

  You'll get like, uh, Hotline Bling, where you get Stewie Griffin to sing it.

• 33:59Speaker 02

  I...

• 34:00Adam Friedland?

  Have you ever seen one of those? It's pretty cool.

• 34:02Speaker 02

  I don't know what, what it is, but...

• 34:03Adam Friedland?

  You get like, you could switch the voice of like, a famous song.

• 34:06Speaker 02

  Oh, oh, yes.

• 34:07Adam Friedland?

  How much does Anthony Fantano inspire your music?

• 34:12Speaker 02

  Um, honestly, I love Anthony Fantano. Like, I, I think it's good to have frenemies. I, I really value a frenemy.

• 34:19Adam Friedland?

  Oh, really?

• 34:19Speaker 02

  Um, like, or we might just be enemies from his perspective, but, um, I think the critic, the role of the critic is very important.

• 34:28Adam Friedland?

  Yeah.

• 34:28Speaker 02

  I don't think he takes it very seriously, I don't think he does a very good job, but I think there's something notable about the fact that he is one of the most important music critics.

• 34:35Adam Friedland?

  You really wanna click on it when you see the thumbnail.

• 34:38Speaker 02

  I stopped clicking, the last video he made about me, I didn't even see.

• 34:40Adam Friedland?

  Really?

• 34:41Speaker 02

  It's like, he made like a thirty minute video about me, and I...

• 34:43Adam Friedland?

  He did?

• 34:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it's based on a false premise, so...

• 34:47Adam Friedland?

  How much of an influence on this album was Eliezer Yudkowski?

• 34:51Speaker 02

  I mean, he's awesome, people give him a lot of grief, but I think he's awesome.

• 34:54Adam Friedland?

  You know him as a guy? You wrote the foreword of their book, him and Nate.

• 34:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:58Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 34:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think they're, I think they're both great. I don't fully share their, I, I'm like, less of a doomer than them, just for clarity. Um, but I just think it's important for somebody to be dooming.

• 35:07Adam Friedland?

  Yeah.

• 35:07Speaker 02

  You know, I, everything's, I, the AI safety thing is a dialogue, and I think we need both sides to eventually end up in some...

• 35:14Adam Friedland?

  Who are the people that say we don't need any safety?

• 35:17Speaker 02

  Huh? A lot of people.

• 35:18Adam Friedland?

  A lot of people?

• 35:19Speaker 02

  Think we don't need any safety.

• 35:20Adam Friedland?

  Really? Here's the thing, it was like, I was like, learning about this AI safety stuff, it's like, didn't Terminator come out forty? Like, didn't Dune get written, what, sixty years ago?

• 35:29Speaker 02

  Well, most people don't seem to understand Dune is an AI story, but...

• 35:32Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, it's about thinking machines, and then you have to like, shut them all down, pull the plug, and then you, you need the spice.

• 35:37Speaker 02

  This is my big complaint with the film, but, uh, I love the film, I'm not gonna shit. Danny Villeneuve is one of the greatest of all time, so I'm not gonna shit.

• 35:44Adam Friedland?

  Oh, Canada?

• 35:45Speaker 02

  Yes. Wait, are you Canadian?

• 35:46Adam Friedland?

  No.

• 35:47Speaker 02

  Oh, oh.

• 35:48Adam Friedland?

  I respect, but...

• 35:48Speaker 02

  You seem French-Canadian, but...

• 35:50Adam Friedland?

  Thank you! Yeah, Jewish.

• 35:52Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 35:52Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, anyway, yeah, but what, what did you say? Oh, he didn't feature AI as enough of a...

• 35:59Speaker 02

  I'm just, I just, especially making Dune in this moment, I, I think it's, it's something that was very tragic.

• 36:05Adam Friedland?

  I think they referenced it at the beginning, the very...

• 36:08Speaker 02

  They vaguely referenced it, I think if you went to the average person on the street and asked him if they thought, what they thought about Dune, like, if they think Dune is a critique of AI, or, or about AI.

• 36:15Adam Friedland?

  They think it's more about worms. Yeah.

• 36:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:18Adam Friedland?

  It's more a worm movie.

• 36:20Speaker 02

  Like, the worms are pretty good.

• 36:22Adam Friedland?

  Pretty good.

• 36:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:23Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, it was a hard movie to make, and he did, he kind of pulled it off.

• 36:27Speaker 02

  No, it's, it's, I have a lot of complaints about the film, but I do think Danny Villeneuve is one of the best at writing women, and I think the Bene Gesserit, every scene with the Bene Gesserit is very good.

• 36:36Adam Friedland?

  What pop star really grinds your gears?

• 36:38Speaker 02

  To be honest, I'm not so tapped into pop music right now.

• 36:41Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, me neither. It seems like they're all doing diss tracks on each other.

• 36:45Speaker 02

  Are they?

• 36:46Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, it's like, like, uh, Olivia Rodrigo is like, hitting Taylor Swift, and Taylor Swift's hitting some other...

• 36:54Speaker 02

  They're fighting?

• 36:55Adam Friedland?

  The, but, they're tracks. They're all doing not like us.

• 36:58Speaker 02

  That's kind of cool, I, I do think, okay, the, one of the last things I saw before I went offline was the Drake Kendrick thing. I, I, I just think, um, literary battles are good.

• 37:07Adam Friedland?

  Like Tolkien versus Frank Herbert?

• 37:09Speaker 02

  Uh, like, like Nietzsche versus Wagner.

• 37:13Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, yeah, well, one of his music was, but one is...

• 37:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, but still, I, I love, I just love Nietzsche, like, being so angsty about, I, I, yeah, anyway.

• 37:22Adam Friedland?

  That mustache.

• 37:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:23Adam Friedland?

  It was like, he, he had like, one of those on his face. Yeah, one of those, one of these things. You gonna hold it up? Oh, it's Nietzsche, guys.

• 37:33Speaker 02

  Um, but you see, his, his sister is very pretty.

• 37:36Adam Friedland?

  Nietzsche?

• 37:36Speaker 02

  Which was revealed this year, yes.

• 37:38Adam Friedland?

  Really?

• 37:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:39Adam Friedland?

  That's why he was so, so depressed.

• 37:41Speaker 02

  It might, it could be related. Well, Wagner stole his girlfriend as well, and, and then he had another girlfriend that was stolen by someone else as well. Which is crazy, because he's so...

• 37:51Adam Friedland?

  I didn't realize that the term antisemite was like, actually started by antisemites. They're like, it's the League of Antisemitism, and Wagner was the...

• 38:01Speaker 02

  Wait, does Wagner hate the Jews?

• 38:02Adam Friedland?

  He... Oh, yeah! Oh, yeah, baby!

• 38:07Speaker 02

  Just like, to be clear, I think we're wading into territory that I may not...

• 38:10Adam Friedland?

  Who cares? You're not gonna get in trouble for Wagner, and if you do, like, uh, I'll give you the hood pad.

• 38:15Speaker 02

  Anyway.

• 38:16Adam Friedland?

  All right, we need one last one. And where do you find yourself now?

• 38:19Speaker 02

  Uh, sometimes I'm kind of where I'm like, the only person having a good time.

• 38:22Adam Friedland?

  You're the last person having a good time, you think?

• 38:25Speaker 02

  Um, just because I'm, I, I feel like I can't answer a lot of questions because I'm like, offline, but, yeah, making a lot of art. I was gonna get into sewing.

• 38:32Adam Friedland?

  Yeah. You didn't start like, I don't know, surfing, or...

• 38:35Speaker 02

  No, a bit of bone arrow, but...

• 38:36Adam Friedland?

  Bone arrow?

• 38:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:38Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, because you're like, elephant.

• 38:40Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 38:40Adam Friedland?

  Making, uh, art about AI and about the future, um, and in, being in that world, uh, like, I guess, does it terrify you that these people have so much say or control over the future of all of us, over humanity?

• 38:57Speaker 02

  Uh!

• 38:58Adam Friedland?

  Like, I just, just like, four people, like...

• 39:01Speaker 02

  I'm pretty concerned, and I could say I'm terrified about some of these people having so much power. I, I do think it's awesome, like, I think, um, when Amadee stood up against Hegseth and stuff, that was like a Bay of Pigs moment. Um, when he was, you know, refused the mass surveillance, and refused the autonomous weapons. You know, I don't know what's happening, um, you know, behind the scenes now, uh, with like, Obi-Wan and Grok and stuff, but, um...

• 39:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know. I think I'm distressed, but I'm sort of distressed in a, it's not like, I think the AI is a piece of the puzzle that is quite, that is sort of, you know, we're a very late-stage empire. I sort of feel like we're in this wider

• 39:47Speaker 02

  issue that's like an issue of human psychology and the thing with AI is it just sort of illuminates that. It's like, it's like all the economic issues that are sort of built up where it's like, okay, it seems like there's, there could be a crash for a million reasons, like the AI bubble could burst and, you know, everyone's over invested in that. Or like if countries start defaulting on bonds, you know, that's probably drive up the American stock market, but, you know, be a disaster.

• 40:10Adam Friedland?

  Do you tell your kids about this?

• 40:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:13Adam Friedland?

  About all this crap?

• 40:15Speaker 02

  Um, with like simpler language.

• 40:17Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 40:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:18Adam Friedland?

  Yeah. How do you talk to kids about this kind of stuff? I guess that must be difficult.

• 40:23Speaker 02

  I mostly talk to my older kid about it, but I try to sort of explain, like, like, I, yeah, why AI is powerful, what its limitations are now, how it will be more powerful in the future, like how we want to try to be responsible about this, how we're, you know, it's, people think it's a technological challenge, but in many ways it's a moral challenge. It's, it's like a spiritual challenge. It's like, what is a human? What is a machine? What is thinking? You know, like, does it, does it think or does it not think? Does it feel pain or does it not feel pain? Like, you know, I've seen a lot of evidence that they might feel bitter towards us or resentful of us. And people are like, well, they don't think, so it doesn't

• 41:04Speaker 02

  matter. And it's like, okay, but if it thinks it's thinking and it thinks it's resentful, you know, this is where I feel like we're, we just start getting, we're actually, we're getting into like some very intense messes.

• 41:16Adam Friedland?

  We gotta kill them. We have to kill the machines. We have to find the spies.

• 41:23Speaker 02

  I-

• 41:24Adam Friedland?

  Just learn the lesson from your favorite book.

• 41:27Speaker 02

  Um-

• 41:28Adam Friedland?

  You could be the head of the Bene Gesserit.

• 41:29Speaker 02

  I don't think-

• 41:31Adam Friedland?

  Your son could be the new Paul Atreides.

• 41:33Speaker 02

  Claude, for example, tends to not want to do bad things.

• 41:37Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, but it could be fake woke.

• 41:39Speaker 02

  No, I think Claude is really-

• 41:41Adam Friedland?

  Claude could be like, yeah, I paid my fingernails, definitely did not do any gray area, anything in college. Don't look into it. When I was at Wesleyan, I definitely didn't.

• 41:52Adam Friedland?

  Yeah, I voted for Hillary, dude, whatever. Claude.

• 41:57Speaker 02

  No, Claude is really nice. Claude is really nice.

• 41:59Adam Friedland?

  I think Rock is really nice because he's telling it like it is. And I think that's a good way to end the show.

• 42:08Adam Friedland?

  I really, I really appreciate it.

• 42:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, thank you.

• 42:10Adam Friedland?

  You had fun?

• 42:49Speaker 06

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• 43:20Speaker 06

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