Neal Brennan On: Talking Back to Your Inner Critic, Why Chasing Validation Doesn't Work, and His Harrowing Psychedelic Journeys

The legendary comedian says you don't have to be tortured to be an artist, he doesn't need an index card of achievements in his pocket anymore, and even the bad trips have led to good destinations. Neal Brennan https://www.nealbrennan.com/ is a three-time Emmy-nominated writer, director, producer, and standup comedian known for his critically acclaimed Netflix specials 3 Mics, Blocks, and Crazy Good and for co-creating Comedy Central's iconic Chappelle's Show. He also hosts the hit Blocks https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/blocks-w-neal-brennan/id1658660161 podcast, where he talks with guests about their own personal blocks. In this episode we talk about: Talking back to your inner critic Why the worst psychedelic trips might do more good than the beautiful ones The myth that comedians have to be miserable to be funny The "decoy" that keeps smart people chasing validation forever Why achievement became Neal's most embarrassing addiction What Neal wants now that success wasn't enough Get the 10% with Dan Harris app here https://app.danharris.com/membership Sign up for Dan's free newsletter here http://www.danharris.com/ Follow Dan on social: Instagram https://bit.ly/3tGigG5, TikTok https://bit.ly/3FOA84J Subscribe to our YouTube Channel https://bit.ly/3FybRzD To advertise on the show, contact [email protected] or visit https://advertising.libsyn.com/10HappierwithDanHarris

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Dan Harris?

  Hey, everybody. Welcome to the 10% happier podcast. Buckle up. We've got a great episode. My guest today is Neil Brennan, co-creator of a legendary Chappelle Show. He's got three Netflix specials, Blocks, Three Mikes and Crazy Good. And he's the host of his own podcast, also called Blocks. We talk about how to overcome malaise, how to talk back to your inner critic, and his extremely harrowing psychedelic experiences. This is a really good one. Neil Brennan, welcome to the show.

• 0:34Speaker 01

  Hello. Thanks for having me. First time, long time.

• 0:36Dan Harris?

  Thank you. I appreciate that. Right back at you. Actually, I once stood next to you at a urinal at a wedding and was so excited, but I had to hold myself back from saying something to you because it would have been incredibly. I feel like it would be massively douchey of me to say who's wedding, so I'm not gonna say it, but it was somebody we both know. And I really had to hold myself back.

• 1:01Speaker 01

  I've only been to like four weddings.

• 1:03Dan Harris?

  In your life?

• 1:03Speaker 01

  I mean, as an adult, really? Because I would have recognized you. I'm gonna be honest with you. I was mad I haven't been on this podcast sooner. I'm dead serious. I'll show you emails. I will show you emails.

• 1:18Dan Harris?

  That shocks me.

• 1:19Speaker 01

  So that, no, of course, this is my, my particular perception problem. And all, and I think it's a common human problem, which is kind of conspiracy depression. It's a depression that lends itself to conspiracy and rumination. It's like a negative, it's, I have conspiracy theories, but only about personal relationships.

• 1:43Dan Harris?

  Okay, so I think I have the same thing, but let me just make sure I understand what you're saying. I kind of think everybody doesn't value me as much as they should.

• 1:52Speaker 01

  I thought you weren't having me on the podcast because you didn't respect. I was told my publicist to ask you if I could do it. I, so the fact that this is, and when I say it was like eight years ago, it was when you started, you needed guests.

• 2:08Dan Harris?

  Yeah.

• 2:08Speaker 01

  I'm gonna be honest, you could only have Jack Kornfield on here so many times. Okay, so I know whereof I speak. Sharon Salzberg is back.

• 2:17Dan Harris?

  Whereas, the truth is, I almost, while we had our members out, said something fangirly to you at a urinal, so.

• 2:28Speaker 01

  I thought someone hated me for 29 years and just found out they didn't. Three weeks ago, I almost started crying. Someone I did. I'm not even like, why wasn't on the podcast, but I don't understand what happens. Because I'll DM people. The DMs are open, guys, if you want me on your podcast. So I've DM'd people and I'm just like, I wanted to, hey, can you do my podcast? And they've done it.

• 2:50Dan Harris?

  What's interesting to me is that you have this conspiratorial cast of mine.

• 2:57Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:58Dan Harris?

  And you're Neil fucking Brennan.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  I know, but the problem is, a lot of times the fucking goes away. And the Neil, the N and the B are not capitalized. And it's not an acute E Cummings way. It's a low self-esteem way. And also, that Neil fucking Brennan, it does not, that a lot of people don't share whatever you think that is. Sometimes I, sometimes I'm on your side, and I'm fucking Neil Brennan. And other times I'm like, oh, I'm, I kind of agree with them. I kind of agree with the, the negative, what did Nixon call them? The negative nabobs?

• 3:38Dan Harris?

  Nattering nabobs of negativity.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  Yes, there you go.

• 3:42Dan Harris?

  This kind of gets to one of the famous stories about you, which is after the implosion of the Chappelle Show, you carried around a little card

• 3:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:50Dan Harris?

  that listed your achievements.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:52Dan Harris?

  So you're, you kind of still need to do that.

• 3:56Speaker 01

  That tide has risen. I no longer need an index card of positive attributes. Like a, like a, like, like memento, where I, I need to remind myself of my credits.

• 4:10Dan Harris?

  We should just, just for younger people or the culturally illiterate, we should just fill in some things here. So you were the co-creator and co-writer and often director of some of the most famous segments on what I believe to be the funniest television show in the history of television, Chappelle Show. And then the show fell apart for a bunch of complicated reasons that we don't need to get into. And you had a bit of a crisis and were then carrying around a little card in your pocket to remind you that you weren't a piece of shit.

• 4:42Speaker 01

  That's a well, well said. Yeah, yeah, that's about right. Yeah, yes, yes. That's, I can't even put a caveat on it. That's basically what was happening.

• 4:52Dan Harris?

  Would you say that is, I'm gonna use psycho, psychological speak here, hopefully not psycho babble, but is that like core wound stuff?

• 5:03Speaker 01

  I don't know, truthfully. I, because I don't, because I don't feel that way anymore. It's a little hard to access the, kind of the origin of it. I think one of the nice things about aging is you just kind of like, it's kind of character traits, like expire. And I mean, some good, some bad. We just talked about not being able to remember stories, what stories we've told. And a part of me thinks it's because we podcast too much. And then a part of me thinks it's because I don't really give a shit anymore. I'm not, I don't think it's important to be like very sharp in every possible, you know, attribute of life and category and, and fastidious in every way.

• 5:48Speaker 01

  And just like, ah, ah, and it's great. The core wound, like, I don't think I'm good enough. I think part of my problem was like, I always thought I was pretty good. But then the world would be like, no. No, you're not. And I'd be like, really? No. So, so, and that was a big, which spells out when it was a big like, no, absolutely not.

• 6:16Dan Harris?

  But you were shouted out on the show. As a viewer, you, you were, to me, I thought you were like the Alpha and Omega.

• 6:24Speaker 01

  I can't explain it. I, the, between me and Dave, there was like an understanding. But between me and Comedy Central, between me and another exec producer, there was always just like a, like thwarting. It was always just like, eh, beat it. It's what I call doing the dishes. Like, you can come, but you gotta do the dishes.

• 6:43Dan Harris?

  You won an Emmy for directing the Rick James.

• 6:47Speaker 01

  I did, I got nominated. The guy who directed the Oscars in 2003 beat me for directing. You saw the Emmys, the Oscars that year, you'd know it was worth it.

• 6:58Dan Harris?

  It's like Dances with Wolves, Be the Goodfellas. I really relate to that.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  You do?

• 7:02Dan Harris?

  Yes, because, I mean, I was in the news business for 30 years and I, and I, you know, on paper, if I had made my own little index card, I had done a lot of things. But I always felt like I didn't get as much respect as the other guys. I didn't get as far as many of my peers made it in the industry. I remember what, what, probably the worst day for me, just in terms of my morale as a part of ABC News. We did, they brought everybody together to take a big group photo in like 2010. And they, they had all of us in this photo. And then they said, okay, everybody else leave except for these core eight.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  Did they name the core eight?

• 7:41Dan Harris?

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, I had, we all had to sit there and watch them get their picture taken. And that was the picture they ended up using everywhere and all the press. Everything else was.

• 7:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I can, I mean, there, there was literally like a Netflix, one of those three weeks ago. They didn't make anybody leave. But there's plenty, I mean, there's a joke in, in the Blocks Netflix special I did where Ted Sarandos at a party said, it's so exciting to be all, around all my comedy heroes. And Chris Rock yelled out, and Neil Brennan. Which is fucking hilarious.

• 8:14Dan Harris?

  Yeah.

• 8:14Speaker 01

  Even as Neil Brennan.

• 8:15Dan Harris?

  Really?

• 8:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. That to me is like getting a Picasso from Picasso. Do you know what I mean? Like, why be friends with Chris Rock?

• 8:23Dan Harris?

  Even if the Picasso drawing is you as a piece of shit.

• 8:25Speaker 01

  Awful, an awful, like, I, but I also know, like, I'm the least famous person there in terms of comedy heroes. It's like, if it's me, Jerry, Eddie Murphy, Chris Rock, Dave, Ellen, it's like, I'm not, I'm not on their, in their category. Like, even I know that. I'm in a category. It's not a blowout, and I know it's not a blowout because I've written for them. So it's, this is a charisma issue.

• 8:50Dan Harris?

  It's a charisma issue?

• 8:51Speaker 01

  If I can write, again, I don't know what this podcast has become, but if I can write for Chris, Dave, Ellen, Seth, and they're all some of the biggest comedians in the world, or whatever, well, then I can, clearly, it's not a writing issue. It's not a funny issue. It's like, I'm, anyone would say I'm funny. Anyone would say I'm a great writer. So it's a charisma issue, or it's a, it's, it's a performing issue, right?

• 9:19Dan Harris?

  You've had four Netflix specials?

• 9:22Speaker 01

  Three and a half.

• 9:22Dan Harris?

  Okay. Those are really well-regarded specials, so it can't be a performance issue.

• 9:28Speaker 01

  No, all right, well, here's a good, and I, this is not anything I feel bad about anymore. Like, I really don't. I, this is a truly, I'm just explaining what it was like from my point of view, that I, I can look at it seriously objectively. Like, when I say that Chris joke was a clean, like, it was a clean hit, it's a clean hit. Like, it's a fucking great joke. So I posted a joke yesterday, literally a joke on Instagram yesterday, June 2026. And someone wrote, this guy's one of my favorite writers. I'm on stage doing stand-up. What did I write that you like? Like, okay, Chappelle Show, what did I write?

• 10:13Speaker 01

  You don't know what I wrote. You know I wrote this, and I'm performing it. But it's, it, I think it's one of these branding things or something where people go like, oh, you're a writer. They just go like, oh, that guy writes for Dave Chappelle. So, so it's, it's kind of a hard thing for them. It's like when someone says their name's Billy and then they go, no, call me William. And you're like, all right, come on. Or a better one is Hasan Minhaj started saying, no, I'm Hasan. Hey, man, you told me to call you Hasan for eight years. The grooves are pretty deep. Or another one, my sisters, I don't call them by their married names. Just wait for them to get forced.

• 10:56Speaker 01

  They'll be back. They'll be back to Brennan soon enough.

• 10:59Dan Harris?

  A quick note before we hear from our sponsors, who for the record, I actually like, we are very diligent, to the point of being quite annoying to some of our business partners, very, very diligent and picky when it comes to picking our sponsors. That said, I get it. Not everybody loves listening to ads and that's why I want to tell you about a way to get this show ad free. It's called 10% happier plus it's a subscription right inside Apple podcasts. Doesn't matter what app you're on right now, you can find it right there. Every episode ad free plus a bonus guided meditation every Sunday from teachers like Joseph Goldstein, Sebene Selassie and Vinnie Ferraro. It's $4.99 a month or $49.99 a year. Quick note, if you already have my app, 10% with Dan Harris, you're covered. You don't need this as well.

• 11:44Dan Harris?

  It's really for people who just want this podcast ad free. And the money does not just fund the show. It also helps us give free app memberships to people who can't afford it. Look for 10% happier plus in Apple podcasts and hit subscribe. We'll be right back after this. Most of us can remember being about 15 and feeling completely invisible or worse, extremely visible, but for the wrong reasons. I remember one year when I was a teenager, I had a pimple in the crevice of my nose for the entire year. I didn't like that. Either way, even if we have painful memories of that age, most of us tend to soften it in memory and it was actually harder than we remember it now.

• 12:27Dan Harris?

  That is the territory of Carrie, now streaming on Prime Video, the first ever television adaptation of Stephen King's Carrie. Eight episodes from Mike Flanagan with Stephen King as an executive producer. Flanagan had described this show as a tragedy. It's about a girl who doesn't feel seen by anyone and about how small everyday acts of unkindness compound into something nobody meant to cause, which happens now at a speed and scale that would have been unimaginable not long ago. What I really appreciate about the show is that the show takes Carrie seriously as a person rather than as some sort of symbol. And the season keeps circling around one major question. Are you watching the making of a hero, a villain?

• 13:10Dan Harris?

  Or something more complicated than either of those options. Carrie is now streaming on Prime Video.

• 13:24Dan Harris?

  You said before that you, this, this sturm and drang, this kind of pain is not as operative for you anymore. Like, how did that change?

• 13:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've talked about it at some length, but I did ayahuasca probably 15 times. Maybe it's up to 20 at this point, 15, 20. Then I did, uh, Bufo, 5M of DMT, the nuclear bomb of psychedelics. And it, it was like, it changed my brain chemistry.

• 13:57Dan Harris?

  Which one, ayahuasca, DMT?

• 13:59Speaker 01

  Both of them. Yeah, it was over two years and then since then MDMA has been completely inexact process. And I don't know if it could have worked any other sequence, but that's the sequence I've done them in. Not, and again, not by design, not by, and having said that, also not haphazardly, not just like, what is it? So, uh, so, but it's been, it changed, it changed my essence to the point where people that don't know will come up and go, be like, what's different about you? It transformed me. The 10% happier, I would say I'm, I was thinking on the way over here, I'm probably 35% happier from drugs.

• 14:43Speaker 01

  If you want to go, if you want that extra 25%, uh, get into, go to my DMs.

• 14:50Dan Harris?

  Do the math.

• 14:50Speaker 01

  Don't, and by the way, don't go to my DMs because people, somebody got, I mean, somebody, people will, because I talk about this shit publicly, people think I have it and can give it to them. So they, or like, hey, where can I go in California for, I'm like, I don't, you gotta kind of do some of your own. Finally, this is an area that I would, I would like you to do your own research. Please, when you're doing all your COVID stuff and your vaccine stuff, go the extra mile.

• 15:18Dan Harris?

  What is the mechanism by which, uh, ayahuasca, DMT and, and then ecstasy slash MDMA?

• 15:29Speaker 01

  Oh, that's old guy. Tell me you're old without telling me you're old.

• 15:32Dan Harris?

  Exactly. I think I'm older than you.

• 15:35Dan Harris?

  What is the mechanism by which this transformed you?

• 15:39Speaker 01

  It was harrowing. I, I had an ayahuasca experience that was really awful. First one was great and then the second and third were great. The fourth was a nightmare because it was with what I call a rickety shaman. Just didn't know what he was doing and drank too much. And, you know, ayahuasca is really, it's a very, it's entheogenic. So it's, I don't even know what the definition of that is, but it's, you're dealing with some real nonlinear, I believe spiritual stuff, right?

• 16:17Speaker 01

  So you're going, I was thrust into outer space by myself and the universe was gonna die. So I was just literally going, hmm, I was, I was breathing. It's one of your terms. It's an Indian, um, uh, breathing thing, like where you go, hmm.

• 16:39Dan Harris?

  Oh, Ujjay?

• 16:40Speaker 01

  No, but one of, somebody will know. Sound off in the comments. I thought I was in outer space and I thought this would be some kind of beacon. I was doing it for three hours, but I knew you were gonna be okay. From my point of view, I thought I was in outer space. The universe is gonna die, Saturn rivers, babies. So came, came to covered in vomit. I'll show you the photo. You can put it on your stupid podcast and I was scared for three days. Had to sleep with the lights on. My, I'm scared of what? I don't know. Just, I think like some kind of PTSD reaction. Now, two ceremonies earlier, I'm doing a flashback. Two ceremonies, I went from being an atheist to believing in God.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  As I'm in outer space and like the universe is gonna die, I was thinking like, I don't, we don't need to do this. I believe in the central creation force. We don't gotta do all this. So after the bad experience, we'll call it episode four, where I, outer space, whatever, the, the floorboards in my mind felt like, when, when you go off antidepressants, they got mushy. I had to go off antidepressants to do ayahuasca.

• 17:47Dan Harris?

  Yeah, that's why I haven't done it.

• 17:48Speaker 01

  Jumping around.

• 17:49Dan Harris?

  I haven't done it for that reason.

• 17:50Speaker 01

  Might be worth it. But, but might not.

• 17:54Dan Harris?

  Well, you're not selling it.

• 17:55Speaker 01

  Well, hold on. Hold on, you're, this guy's getting caught up in the, you're like the guy in the movie goes, who's that? It's, wait.

• 18:05Speaker 01

  So when I went off antidepressants, I would say the floorboards of my mood were a little mushy, right? After this awful ayahuasca experience, my floorboards were firmer and higher. That's the best way to describe it.

• 18:18Dan Harris?

  After you went through?

• 18:19Speaker 01

  After I went through a harrowing, outer space, vomiting on myself experience.

• 18:24Dan Harris?

  And after you slept with the lights on for three days?

• 18:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:28Dan Harris?

  So you had to get through the harrowing experience and the aftermath and then?

• 18:32Speaker 01

  I actually think it had happened before the lights thing. I think it happened, I think it had happened when I came to, I was like unnerved.

• 18:40Dan Harris?

  What is it about the harrowing experience that would have reinforced the floorboards?

• 18:45Speaker 01

  I believe that these psychedelics experiences are, or chemicals, whatever you would call them, it feels like a software upgrade, right? When you upgrade your computer, it goes to sleep.

• 19:01Speaker 01

  This wasn't, I, you have to, it's basically like kind of going through surgery and you're awake. It's a bit like, like, how would you change a human spirit and character? You know what I mean? Like, how do you, how do you change 50, however many years it was at this point? Experience, life, consciousness, how would you alter that? Not like you, like, like you say over, but like, how would that be altered? I think it's through these medicine, chemical, whatever you want to call them. I think, I think that's a way to do it.

• 19:34Dan Harris?

  Do you think you needed the rickety shaman and the outer space, um, harrowing experience in order to get the benefit? Or could you have gotten it with all of the positive experiences?

• 19:46Speaker 01

  I kind of think I had to have the bad experience. I think that's what changes the brain. Again, this is completely theoretical and I, and, and, uh, don't record this or release it. It's completely theoretical, but that's the sense I have of it is that the, the positive experiences are helpful. That felt like the most brain alteration I went through. Like that was, and okay, so that's the, that's the ayahuasca number four. Ceremonies five through nine are a nightmare. I might have had like PTSD or something from the fourth one. I mean, at one point in number five, I'm in ceremony.

• 20:28Speaker 01

  I believe I hear a tiger in the room, like, like acoustically correct in the room. And then a tiger comes around a table. And it's the only time in my life I went, huh? Like, I've never done that.

• 20:42Dan Harris?

  You don't fall for jump scares.

• 20:44Speaker 01

  I know, I'll, I'll wince, but I don't, huh? I don't, I don't do it. Um, I believe that's the domain of the woman. Um, I have a joke about my, my, I have a joke about my wife just constantly doing that. Like, and by the way, it's most women. They do it all day. My mom, sister, everybody. I also experienced things on ayahuasca that are really hard to explain. I feel like I, I, I regress isn't even the right word. Like you experience life from like a million years. It's like real, pretty wild stuff. That it's, it's, to say it's not for the faint of heart is, I, I don't know if everybody has this kind of experience.

• 21:22Speaker 01

  I should also note, like, this is just my experience with it, but it's, there's a, there were times where I'd be on ayahuasca. And I'd be so disoriented that I would have to remind myself I was a mammal.

• 21:38Dan Harris?

  Wow.

• 21:40Speaker 01

  We're getting, it gets pretty like, take it what they call in, in, in, uh, in construction, taking it down to the studs.

• 21:47Dan Harris?

  The knock on psychedelics is that they can be, the experiences can be incredibly powerful, but without, and this is the term of art, integration.

• 21:55Speaker 01

  I know, which again, that's one of those things. Integration is as vague a term as the toxins.

• 22:01Dan Harris?

  Right, but some sort of practice to kind of get it into your molecules in an abiding way. And do you have that therapy, meditation, something?

• 22:09Speaker 01

  Uh, there, I'm not, I've gone to therapy a lot and then less so in the last 10 years. But I, I don't drink, I don't, I'm vegetarian, vegan. I do meditate intermittently. So I have a, a, a journal. I do, I do this, I think I integrate, I don't, but they don't tell you what integration is. That's the thing is you need to integrate.

• 22:30Dan Harris?

  That's the problem. I mean, they think that's the legit critique of the psychedelic space.

• 22:37Speaker 01

  There's a lot of bullshit in psychedelics. I mean, there's just a lot of bullshit. There's just, it's a bit like, uh, a friend of mine who's in AI says like, you can't really be negative. It's a bit of like, let's just affirm this. And it's like, guys, there, this is what I experienced in psychedelics, where they go, oh, they're going to legalize ibogaine. Okay, this is not just like, go to the dispensary and get it type stuff. It's like, you're dealing with potent streams of something.

• 23:08Dan Harris?

  Yeah.

• 23:09Speaker 01

  So that I haven't even told you about the really bad one.

• 23:11Dan Harris?

  Whoa, please do.

• 23:12Speaker 01

  So ayahuasca, one is great. Uh, two and three are great. Four is a nightmare. Five through nine are also nightmare, the tiger, of course. Another one, maybe not the tiger one, where I thought it was the rapture. I was hearing helicopters. I don't know why there were going to be helicopters during the rapture. And then maybe 10 through 17 were really beautiful, uh, transcendent. There are times where it's too close to God. That it's, there's something, uh, so profound that it's like terrifying. Um, in my experience, I almost think, you know, there's a lot of vomiting in ayahuasca.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  And I think a part of it is like, I, I don't know if I, there, I feel like there's a movie where some sort of deity appears and people are like vomiting. Like there's something so big, it's like Apocalypto. You ever see Apocalypto?

• 24:09Dan Harris?

  No.

• 24:10Speaker 01

  I wonder why. Um, directed by Mel Gibson. Um, yeah, that Mel Gibson, after all the stuff. I, I see, I separate the art from the artist. We'll be right back. The, it's what's funny about Mel Gibson is like, he's such a good director. It's hilarious. Like the fact that he, he, he's like, I'm going to make a movie in Aramaic and, and a more obscure language. And they're still going to be great and big hits. There, it, there's a lot of God stuff in, in Apocalypto and it is, it really does feel that profound. So in the midst, maybe around, uh, between ayahuasca 13 and 14, I did, um, five MAO DMT, which is, uh, Bufo alvarius.

• 24:54Speaker 01

  It's a, the toad secretion that they turn to a powder and you smoke it. And that one, you go, I, you get like blasted into, I believe I was blasted, I, I was blasted to a thing that I was like, this is before the big bang. I didn't know what breathing, I didn't know any, I was like, I'm the first, I was like an amoeba. In my head, I heard the, the phrase, God's not here yet. This is your, this is why I'm saying like, so they're just going to legalize this. Okay. And they're not legalizing Bufo, but like ibogaine isn't that different from this. So, and then it kind of fades away after about 20 minutes, 25 minutes.

• 25:38Speaker 01

  And you come back into yourself. And, and I was like, okay. That was, I, it was like, I think that was good, right? About a week passes and I start to have what's called a reactivation, what they used to call acid flashbacks. It was a reactivation where I was talking to my friend, Ryan Hamilton, great comedian. And we're standing on the corner, Sixth Avenue in like Bleecker, and I can just kind of feel it creeping. The sort of DMT white void energy. And I'm like, I gotta get, I gotta get upstairs. Went upstairs, tried to watch the Linda Ronstadt documentary on HBO.

• 26:23Dan Harris?

  As one does in moments of where you need solace.

• 26:26Speaker 01

  Show some respect. 80 minute, right, this is a lot of records. And then went to, and then it kept coming. I was like, all right, I gotta go to sleep. Woke up, it was still, it was stronger. I was like, I went on like a coffee date with a woman. So I'm having coffee with a woman and it's like half person and like kind of half white noise, which I'm like, this is bad. This is really bad.

• 26:51Dan Harris?

  And you don't know when it's gonna end.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  I don't know why it's there.

• 26:54Dan Harris?

  Yeah.

• 26:54Speaker 01

  And I don't know why it's gonna end. It's really disoriented. I start thinking like, am I in God's imagination? Am I, am I, like, I mean, just like really stuff that you're not, like to the point where I have a thought like, I might have to kill myself to get away from this. But here's why I didn't, and it's actually more harrowing. I didn't because I knew I'd be going into more of it if I did. Somebody said you're like, my, your crown chakra was too open or it, who knows what? Truly no one knows what it is. Now that, having done some research, I love the word research is completely ruined now.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  Um, research, like 70% of people get reactivations on, on which they don't. If you, if you do it intravenously, which no one does, almost nobody gets, uh, reactivation. Smoking it, it's like something like 70% in one of the studies I saw. So, but I think they're minor. Mine was lasting two days, three days. And I was like, this is crazy. Where I'm like, I, I'm thinking things like, why are steps? Like stuff that's, and then I'm doing my block show in New York, in the, in the, in the West Village and it's, and it's going well. By the way, I should note, it's going a little better, but I'm so disoriented.

• 28:19Speaker 01

  I'm, I, I don't know, not like I don't know who I am or what I'm doing, but I'm just like, this is not relatable, what I'm experiencing right now. It's like, and it's not exactly depersonalization, which is you don't relate to. It's just, it was somewhere between derealization and depersonalization, which are two things that I've found out about later. Oh, my extensive research. Go to my GoFundMe and I'll research whatever I want. And you pay for it, America. Um, and, uh, so there was a, a Hemingway, Ken Burns documentary. It's excellent. And, um, it's actually better than Hemingway's writing. And I mean, I mean that because I was, tried to read some afterward.

• 29:04Speaker 01

  I was like, I like the, his story better than his writing. And he's, he talks about getting shot and he's like, it was like a ribbon flew out of me and then flew back in. And I was like, all right, we gotta stop. Like I just could not take, I was just in that. But the floorboards, Dan, I'm sorry to say, were firmer and higher.

• 29:26Dan Harris?

  Is the punchline here that one needs to go through hell repeatedly in order to?

• 29:30Speaker 01

  Punchline is I went through hell. I don't know if one does, I don't know if everyone does. It's like antidepressants where you don't know what's going to work, why it works, what it is. They don't even know what these, a lot of these drugs are. And I'm not saying it as a negative. I'm just saying it's like, I think they work, but I, they don't exactly know why. I believe I got like a half a percent better every day. Speaking of percentage and better, I got, I, I got a half percent more what I would call myself. Uh, or I just came back to like not open chakra, what, what are steps? Uh, just, I knew what steps were, um, or why are steps? That, if you're doing the math on that, that's.

• 30:13Dan Harris?

  Takes a long time.

• 30:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, I didn't do any psychedelics for a year. So I was like, I didn't meditate. I knew you can't meditate. You cannot meditate because I didn't need to get removed from my human experience. I was like pretty, pretty squarely removed from it. But I got a little better every day. I was the, and the other punchline is I was 10% funnier. I swear to you, 10 to 15% bigger laughs, bigger, it was crazy. It was fucking crazy. Another thing, side effect, so when I'd go to sleep during this sort of period, this post Bufo experience, I'd free fall. Just stuff like that where he's like, what is that? What's that?

• 30:59Dan Harris?

  I gotta say, I don't want to do any of this. I'm happy at 10%.

• 31:04Speaker 01

  You want to meet God or not? That's the thing I would say to people. It's like, you're my man. You trying to meet God or what? Like, that's what it, I mean, that, yo fam.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  That's what, I mean, that's really what it is like.

• 31:20Dan Harris?

  I don't know if I, I don't know if I have the courage.

• 31:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's kamikaze shit more than anything. It's like, it's, it's, it's courage isn't even the right word. It is, yeah, I guess it is a form of courage, but it's a bit of kamikaze, nothing, nothing left to lose kind of thing like, like. I didn't like my experience. I didn't, before I did it, I was like, I just was, things were like, kind of gray. Things were just a little drab.

• 31:48Dan Harris?

  I mean, it showed up in your comedy. I mean, there were so, it was just a repeated refrain of unhappiness. And my inner monologue is out of control.

• 31:57Speaker 01

  And then that was Free Mike's Blocks, Crazy Good is just fucking, that's the result, is I'm funnier. I can hit the throttle. I can throw, I never, it was like having Tommy John's. It was like Tommy John's, it's a, it's a sports thing. It's like a surgery that pitchers would get after they, and they were better at pitching.

• 32:23Speaker 01

  It felt like that.

• 32:24Dan Harris?

  Wait, so you had done all of this medicine before you did?

• 32:27Speaker 01

  No, no, no, I did Three Mike's Blocks, then I did the medicine stuff. A Blocks was written before ayahuasca. It's sort of about what I was like before ayahuasca. I don't say that, because when I was doing Blocks, I didn't feel that way anymore. And then Crazy Good, the most recent one from two years ago, it's like, that was the one where it's like, that's the result of all this stuff. And Crazy Good, the, the theme is like, it's kind of good to be a little crazy. That's the theme.

• 32:54Speaker 02

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• 33:25Dan Harris?

  A lot of comedians, I think, and it's not that I know a ton of comedians, but I know some of them. One of the ideas I think that is prevalent among comedians is you need to be fucked up and unhappy in order to be funny, but you are, I think you're sitting here telling me you got 35% happier and you're funnier.

• 33:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 33:46Dan Harris?

  Does that challenge the assumption?

• 33:49Speaker 01

  There's a longer story here, which is, it, it queers the whole narrative, but, and I don't want to queer narratives.

• 33:59Speaker 01

  I am an ally, but I don't want to queer narratives. The issue is I can still write jokes. So can you write jokes? And if you can write jokes, then it comes down to life force.

• 34:14Speaker 01

  My life force was different as a result of DMT and ayahuasca and MDMA. My life force was different. The writing was of the same style, right? But the, but the life force was different. I don't know what I was like to audiences, but it just, I just read funnier to them. It was more, it was, I was lighter. I was lighter, you know? And, and it was partially in the material, but I was just like lighter and more kind of like, there was a fun recklessness to me that didn't exist before.

• 34:45Dan Harris?

  But I think this is really important because it's not just comedians. People think, you know, Van Gogh chopped off his ear or part of his ear. Beethoven was a mess. That, that, that is the prerequisite for making great art. And I think what you're saying is, no, no, you can, if your life force is, you, you can be happy and on point and still make really powerful stuff.

• 35:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't, I know of some really funny people that aren't a mess. It's, there's a phrase I heard one time, being loyal to the wound.

• 35:16Dan Harris?

  Yeah.

• 35:17Speaker 01

  And, and it's, I think people, if you say like, I have to be fucked up, it, you're indemnified, you're, you're, you're, you're exonerated. You don't have to, you have no responsibilities to being a decent person.

• 35:30Dan Harris?

  Or to working on yourself.

• 35:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's, ah, man, I don't want to lose it.

• 35:34Dan Harris?

  So you took your show, the Netflix special available for streaming now, Blocks, and turned it into a podcast where you interview people about their blocks.

• 35:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 35:46Dan Harris?

  Two, two things to say about this. One, I heard you comment on a podcast that nobody actually talks about their real blocks. They talk about the blocks that they're comfortable performing in public. The second is an actual question, which is.

• 35:59Speaker 01

  I'm a real piece of shit. Go ahead.

• 36:01Dan Harris?

  No, no, I thought that was an interesting.

• 36:03Speaker 01

  I think, I think it's probably true. I think there's, I think podcasts have, podcasts is a genre that people can perform now. It's a, or, or revelation is a genre.

• 36:15Dan Harris?

  Yes, vulnerability.

• 36:16Speaker 01

  Vulnerability is a genre. It's a, it's a genre. I think it existed somewhat before, and I think from the advent of like, Maron's podcast, it became like, people go, I know how to do this. I know, I know my version of this.

• 36:29Dan Harris?

  Well, so leaves me at my question, which is, do you, after all of this work you did, what are your remaining blocks?

• 36:38Speaker 01

  I used to yell at therapists about my issues, right? The, you know, the litany, but it's what I call like the, when you go to the, when you go to therapy and you go like, you just do the, use your monologue, right? And you, it changes week to week a little bit, but it's the same, it's the same. And, and I used to, one time I was like, it's in my body. This is in my body, whatever this is, is in my body. It's not, it's not in my brain. I guess it's in my brain, but it's mostly in my body, right? And the DMT and the ayahuasca got it out of my body.

• 37:14Dan Harris?

  Like an exorcism.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's something. It, it, something, some deliverance of some kind.

• 37:20Dan Harris?

  So does that mean there are no blocks then? Or it means there are blocks?

• 37:23Speaker 01

  What do you think? I'm kidding.

• 37:26Speaker 01

  No, of course, of course, there's still, there's still blocks, but they're, again, man, I don't know if it's age or, or, I don't even want to call it wisdom, because it just doesn't seem like, I've considered it and now I'm, it's like, I just don't react to stuff as, I'm just not furious anymore. I was just furious and I'm not furious anymore. I was told that this, this episode was going to be about negative thinking. And, and what I was going to say is, the disappointing thing about negative thinking, or again, disappointing is not the right word. Success makes you feel good.

• 38:03Speaker 01

  Success and status

• 38:06Speaker 01

  can make you feel a little bit better forever. It's, it's gross, you know?

• 38:14Dan Harris?

  But you had all the success and status and you had to write down an index card.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  Again, it was all with an asterisk. You ask people in a blind taste test, who wrote most of Chappelle's Show?

• 38:29Speaker 01

  Please, I know that. The only person who knows who wrote what is Dave. He's not dying to fucking, you know what I mean? Like, so he's not dying to be like, hey, like, it's just not, it's just not what's going to happen. That's, and that truly is not like a judgment on his character. It's just like, that's not a human thing.

• 38:52Dan Harris?

  The incentives don't run in that direction.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, and, and not like they, it's not like, oh, you'd be, he'd be embarrassed or whatever. It's just, he's better off with everyone thinking it was him. You know what I mean? We used to make jokes about, I mean, when we did Half Baked, thank you, when we did Half Baked, when we wrote Half Baked.

• 39:10Dan Harris?

  The movie, just to be clear.

• 39:11Speaker 01

  Again, for the youngsters. It was, it opened against Titanic. Anyhow, they made a movie about, remember when that submarine exploded? The thing that we're looking for, they made.

• 39:24Dan Harris?

  It's very interesting to be interviewing somebody who's constantly relating to the camera.

• 39:30Speaker 01

  Again, this is where I do my podcast, this is my move. So, um, if you're listening to this, you are throwing away a pretty incredible experience. Cause you, you're getting, I'm doing some wild looks to camera.

• 39:43Dan Harris?

  Oh, yeah.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  Some Krasinski level looks to camera. But, um, the, we had a thing where, where we wouldn't say who wrote what, because anytime someone asks who wrote a joke, they don't have your best interest in mind. Anyone in comedy who asks who wrote this, they're trying to see, it's a bit like, what do you do for work? How should I treat you?

• 40:08Dan Harris?

  Right, right, right, right.

• 40:08Speaker 01

  So we made a decision in 1997, because we're old, to not say.

• 40:14Dan Harris?

  It's kind of Lennon McCartney.

• 40:16Speaker 01

  How many people you think believe that?

• 40:19Dan Harris?

  Well, actually, as I say it, you know, they did credit themselves.

• 40:22Speaker 01

  Well, I know, and there was a whole thing of order, and that was an ongoing issue in, well after his debt, like.

• 40:29Dan Harris?

  And Lennon was really pissed about Yesterday, which everybody knew was Paul's song. And, and then Lennon uses it in a, in a diss track on the same record he, in which he includes Imagine as the lead off single.

• 40:43Speaker 01

  Do you think you're the only one who read You Never Give Me Your Money?

• 40:47Dan Harris?

  I didn't read that.

• 40:47Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 40:48Dan Harris?

  I read John and Paul Love Story.

• 40:50Speaker 01

  Okay. You Never Give Me Your Money is a book about the Beatles after they broke up their business. And the, the whole book is just like, you're reading it going, don't do that. Oh, don't do that. Don't, and it's just, it's the imbeciles in terms of business.

• 41:06Dan Harris?

  Yeah, yes. Anyway, so I, I derailed your story with a bad analogy.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  But great artists. So all this stuff I did.

• 41:15Speaker 01

  It was always like with

• 41:18Speaker 01

  Michael Jordan. So it's like, you know, it's with this Titan, all this, you've done this, you've done, no one thinks I did it. And the other thing was, there was also a thing where like, I'm taking credit from this beloved guy. I'm not taking credit. It's our credit. Do you know what I mean? And I say this with, with less self pity than I've ever had about it. I, there are times where I've had lots of self pity. In life in general, that's a great thing that's been, that's been lifted.

• 41:53Dan Harris?

  Reduced.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  Reduced, yeah. It's just an odd, interesting experience to be made. It's interesting to be, everybody, I'll tell an anecdote. Okay, fine. Twist my arm. It's not even a great story, but the other night, the Knicks won. And got advanced to the finals, right?

• 42:12Speaker 01

  And by the time the series they will have been, they will have lost the finals in five games. So it's a lot of merriment on the street. And I'm standing there talking to a buddy of mine and the guy comes up and he's got a Knicks jersey. And he's like, yeah, we did it. And he goes, tell Dave Chappelle that.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  Tell that to Dave Chappelle. And keeps walking. I'm like, why are you mad at, there was like, and I said, that was hostile, wasn't it? And he's like, yeah. And it's like, what, what, I wanted like stopping going, what are you doing? Why are you mad at me? Or there was a whole thing where I would bring it up too much. And it's like, guys, it's just an odd thing. It's just very odd.

• 42:57Dan Harris?

  I love your story and we didn't even get into your childhood, but raised with, you know, 10 siblings and a violent alcoholic father and who, as you've described him, like

• 43:08Speaker 01

  That doesn't even bother me.

• 43:09Dan Harris?

  Didn't, yeah, okay.

• 43:10Speaker 01

  It just doesn't even, it's, I don't, there are so many things in my life now that I just don't identify with. Like I'm just, I barely identify with Chappelle John. Like I barely identify with my family story. I like, that's a, it's nice.

• 43:26Dan Harris?

  It seems incredibly nice. And it's kind of building to a question there, which is like, if all of this is down to psychedelics, is that the lesson the listener should take away from this? Or is there something else?

• 43:41Speaker 01

  I don't think it's one thing. Do you know what I mean? Like, I think I've always been, had a bent for living with some level of philosophy or, you know? So like, three mics is all predates psychedelics and it's pretty like something. There's something kind of ethereal about it. I think I'm inclined in that regard into some sort of, and growth. And I've always gone to 12 step programs and tried to not necessarily like my grindset, a growth grindset. Like I haven't, I don't, I've always been just kind of like, ah, let me try that.

• 44:22Speaker 01

  I'll just, I'll just try stuff. So I think a combination of age, psychedelics, and age, meaning that thing I said about just like, character traits kind of expiring or, or like flaking off, you know? Achieving stuff. It's embarrassing to say, like, I've been thinking about the, when people go, what's your guilty pleasure? And I want to go like, achievement. I wish I were like, spirit and pure art and pure. But it's like, I don't know, it feels good to get to the top of the Kilimanjaro or whatever. Like, it feels good. Just feels good to accomplish it. It feels good to make hours of comedy. It feels good to having done sketch, even though I don't relate to it anymore. Like the negative talk does, it loses credibility, you know?

• 45:06Speaker 01

  When you're like, what the fuck are you talking about? Like, I don't know, man.

• 45:10Dan Harris?

  Do you have this thing a whole, where sometimes your negative, the voice in your head will serve up some sort of vicious self criticism and you'll say, maybe?

• 45:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I heard that on the way over here about that old interview where it was, I said, like, you go, I don't, I mean, it just gets to the point where you just go, I don't know, man. Like you just, they, and even it doesn't believe it anymore.

• 45:31Dan Harris?

  Right.

• 45:31Speaker 01

  You know, it's like an old legacy act where you're like, are you still doing the, you're still touring with Neil's stupid? I don't, it doesn't even, it's not even a good song anymore. Doing state fairs. You're doing the two, the America 250 concert, we're playing Neil's stupid.

• 45:53Speaker 01

  Dropout. So accomplishment, drugs, and I think some level of pattern recognition. It's pattern recognition for good, meaning, you know, it's not just like that dude's face looks like whatever, so and so looks like so and so, or whatever. Your shirt looks like a couch or just like comedy ones. The things I thought were gonna happen, didn't happen. Stop doing it. You know, like the things that I thought were, if I do

• 46:27Speaker 01

  X, I'll be Y kind of person. It'll make me think I'm this kind of person forever. And it's like, it doesn't, it, it does, it's not indicative of maybe anything, which contradicts a little bit what I said about achievement, but it's, it's more like 35,000 feet. Where you're like, what are you, what are you chasing this? What are you chasing? Would truly, what are you chasing? It's a bit like, you know, the, the, if like one of those greyhounds was like, this is not even a real, it's not even a real piece of meat. This is a fucking decoy, you know? And just a glimpse of that now, where I'm like, okay.

• 47:07Speaker 01

  I'm, I'm busting my ass for a thing that I was, thought I would get. You know, that thing that you said, you've done, you've done all this stuff, right? I qualify for respect.

• 47:21Dan Harris?

  Comedy Rushmore, in my mind.

• 47:22Speaker 01

  Great. Thank you. I am one of the four best comedians who's ever done anything. But I know you, just some, some, not Rushmore, but like

• 47:31Dan Harris?

  He's now talking to the camera.

• 47:33Speaker 01

  If you're just listening to us, you're just joining us. Anytime I say something wry, a lot of people I didn't qualify.

• 47:42Speaker 01

  Is the truth. And, and I thought, well, this next one will get them. They don't even watch the stuff. Is the, is what I realized, I'm like, I'm chasing this thing. Thinking that if I do enough stuff, I will get some level of like, automatic respect, right?

• 48:05Speaker 01

  They'll have me on their podcast or they'll automatically do my podcast. Or the, and it's like, no, there's a, there's, I, I've found that the goalposts keep moving. I don't know if it's for everybody. It feels like it's particularly for me. In your case, I was wrong. Do you know what I mean? So maybe I'm misjudging stuff, but I, I just, the, like, living for external validation. And I just, I, it's, I'm not getting it.

• 48:34Dan Harris?

  You mentioned achievement earlier as a salve for, you know,

• 48:42Dan Harris?

  lifelong feelings of discontent and depression, et cetera, et cetera.

• 48:46Speaker 01

  But it's, I, I think it was more like, I thought I was good and everyone was like, no, you're not. Oh, okay. So I have to qualify? It's like, I have to qualify for, for, I have to get my driver's license every year.

• 48:57Dan Harris?

  But what I, I guess what I'm hearing there though, is yes, there's achievement mixed with contentment that you've arrived at now, which is you're, you're making stuff. A lot of people like it. Maybe not all the people you were hoping that liked it, like it. But you're not chasing that decoy anymore. You're happy making what you're making and reaching who you're reaching. So what would that life look like?

• 49:20Speaker 01

  No, I, I'm with you. I'm, I, I, look, if you think I didn't do a 10 day silent retreat at Spirit Rock, you don't know the first thing about me. I did it. It was one of the best days of my life and that's why I haven't done it since. But no, I don't, I don't, I'm real close to that. And, and it's like, that's what I'm saying. It's a longer story where I'm closer to, I'm sick of being stressed out with worry all the time. And another thing that I mentioned is like money. I must have made some money, right?

• 49:55Speaker 01

  Doing all this stuff, you gotta think I made some money. So at a certain point you go, what? What, what, what am I?

• 50:05Speaker 01

  I'm like stressing myself out for, it's that thing of like getting, you know, things for people, trying to impress people that don't like you, whatever. I'm just, I'm like, I know I'm, it's like, I know I'm funny. And I kept going like, well, I'll prove it and prove it and prove it and prove it. And there's still people that are like on the fence. And I'm like, I don't think this is a me issue at this point. I think you just don't want to think I'm funny. So,

• 50:32Speaker 01

  so the, so I'm just getting closer to like,

• 50:36Speaker 01

  I'd like to live a less stressful life.

• 50:39Dan Harris?

  Or just make for the joy of making and not worry about what, what the people you're worrying about think.

• 50:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. Or just be, it's, you can just, I can just be fun. I'm still funny. If I have a funny thought, it doesn't matter if I record it.

• 50:55Speaker 01

  I remember I used to write movies, screenplays and a couple of them got made, but it was like, people go, it didn't get many. And I'm like, no, I made it.

• 51:02Speaker 01

  I made it. It's like, it is, it is a little esoteric and like a little something, but it's like, no, I

• 51:10Speaker 01

  It's better up here anyway. Trust me, they're better up here. They're flawless. Every joke works up here. So like, so that's the, it's the, the tension between purpose. I would say it's tension between purpose and a heart attack. Like, I don't, I like some purpose, but what if my purpose didn't involve cortisol? Like, is that possible? So that's more where I am. And because it's like, what's the point of having money? If you're, if you're just gonna keep, I got friends with so much money, who will intentionally make themselves agitated to keep doing this thing. For money they don't need.

• 51:55Speaker 01

  I, it, it, it gets into this weird, like, what is a life? What's a life? What, what is the point? And, uh,

• 52:04Dan Harris?

  My son asked me that question the other day.

• 52:06Speaker 01

  Hopefully you'll play him this podcast. What did you answer? How old?

• 52:11Dan Harris?

  He's 11. He asked me, what's the point of life? I play video games and they try to make you think it's important, but I know it's not. And is life like that? Like, we're just gonna die?

• 52:20Speaker 01

  They try to make you think video games are important?

• 52:22Dan Harris?

  Yeah, you, you accumulate all of these points and everything like that, but then you, eventually you lose. And so like, what's, that, that's obviously futile. And so what, what is the meaning of?

• 52:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's hard to know because I'm involved, my, my girl, I'm basically a stepdad and, and, it's hard to know what to espouse.

• 52:42Dan Harris?

  Yeah. Well, I, I told them, you have to figure it out for yourself. But for me, the answer is corny. But love, like we're all in this bus together. We don't know how we got on the bus. It appears to be heading off a cliff. So what's the move? Be nice to the other passengers.

• 52:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. And, and so, I mean, I had the thought the other day, what if a person were as ambitious about like decency as they were about their career?

• 53:08Dan Harris?

  Yes. Yes.

• 53:10Speaker 01

  And, and it's just really hard. Again, these are all sort of like, where am I? Thoughts where you go, okay, what if I took the same engineer, whatever, good positive qualities? And, and made them and aimed them at decency and kindness and happiness and it, and how much should it just be about my happiness? How much should it be communal? How much of it, how much of that's futile? How much of that is like, oh, what am I, as somebody who's been vegan for 15, eight, whatever my years, almost 20, I kept waiting for everybody to join me. Still, still pretty, pretty sparse.

• 53:52Dan Harris?

  I was talking to a Buddhist nun yesterday who's, we're talking, yeah, I know, I know, I know.

• 53:58Dan Harris?

  And she basically said, you know, just on point to what you said around like wanting everybody to join you and whatever your cause is. She said, do, the only sane way to try to affect change is do what you can and then let it go.

• 54:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't, that, that's a, that, I mean, that's another thing where I'm, it's that pattern recognition thing of like, I was mad that people weren't, no, I wasn't mad. I was, I was mad anyway, but, but it was about racial justice or, or the climate change or whatever, all these things. And there hasn't been a lot of movement. And, and which I don't go into like, well, if I tried harder, I just, I think people are what they're like. So then it becomes making your, your life smaller and like be great to your wife and kid and your friends and your coworkers.

• 54:51Speaker 01

  And, but I don't have the best affect, meaning I don't seem nice. I am nice. But that's the funny thing is I don't seem nice. That's the mistake I always made was I thought you were supposed to be nice. And it's seeming that,

• 55:10Speaker 01

  um, I, I don't, I was like, I don't, that seems like bullshit to seem nice. That's phony, right?

• 55:16Dan Harris?

  Yes, that's performative and often people pleasing.

• 55:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. But so I thought not, and again, maybe I'm, I don't, I'm not even nice, but I think I'm nice. I certainly don't, my face doesn't reveal that. That's part of what's going to the cameras. It's like, over here, I can be myself.

• 55:38Speaker 01

  Over here, I can do it as a charisma bit.

• 55:42Dan Harris?

  Right.

• 55:42Speaker 01

  Uh huh. And it's like, well, that maybe this is, this is whatever. So, yeah, I'm into the phase of like, what is a life worth living? Which is, seems to be what most of these podcasts are about, but, it still seems like people are stuck in optimization. Even, even a thing I'm sure you've recognized, which is like a lot of, it's like Buddhism,

• 56:11Speaker 01

  Stoicism, self-optimization, and then you can make more money.

• 56:15Dan Harris?

  Yeah.

• 56:16Speaker 01

  You know, and it's like people doing ayahuas, people doing mushrooms to make more money, ultimately, to be a better money-making machine. None of it's about, or maybe it's about, I mean, I genuinely pursued it all for, because I felt like I was being, either I wasn't approaching life correctly, or it just felt like I, it was like, I don't think this is what my experience is supposed to be. I think this is kind of a waste. This like general malaise. It's what to do and why to do it is where I am. So, but it, but all the stuff about like, I felt like I was doing all this stuff thinking, oh, okay, this will be the one. And then a couple of people text you and you're like, fuck. You know?

• 57:00Speaker 01

  Or it doesn't change your esteem amongst people. And you're like, it's like, I'm not gonna keep fighting this. This fight, like if, if I didn't do it by now, there's nothing I can do. There's literally nothing I can do to, to make you respect me. And I'm also over to the idea that they do, and I'm just misinterpreting it.

• 57:21Dan Harris?

  On behalf of the 10% happier podcast, I want to apologize to you for not having had you on the show earlier.

• 57:27Speaker 01

  No problem.

• 57:27Dan Harris?

  And I'm glad we've rectified it. This is fucking awesome.

• 57:30Speaker 01

  This is actually most podcasts I do where I yell at the person for not uh, having me on their podcast sooner.

• 57:38Dan Harris?

  It's a winning strategy.

• 57:39Speaker 01

  It's a win. People love it.

• 57:41Dan Harris?

  I liked it.

• 57:42Speaker 01

  No, it's fun. It is, the spirit of it's funny, but, but people think it's hostile. Because I don't seem nice.

• 57:50Speaker 01

  I don't say, I mean, now I do, but like, I seem like, I got, you know, resting dick face. So it's like, it comes across as hostile.

• 57:57Dan Harris?

  Before I let you go, just remind everybody of the name of your podcast.

• 58:00Speaker 01

  The podcast is called Blocks, guys. Some of the, my favorite, Jerry Seinfeld was great. Uh, Trevor Noah was great. Bill Burr was great. Um, they're all, they're all, but they're all kind of great.

• 58:13Dan Harris?

  My friend Sam Harris was on.

• 58:14Speaker 01

  Sam Harris, yeah, Sam was very good.

• 58:16Dan Harris?

  Yep.

• 58:17Speaker 01

  So, so, yeah.

• 58:18Dan Harris?

  Everybody listen to Blocks. Everybody watch Neil's, uh, three and a half specials on Netflix. Blocks, Three Mics, Crazy Good, and what's the half one?

• 58:28Speaker 01

  Comedians of the world.

• 58:29Dan Harris?

  Comedians of the world.

• 58:30Speaker 01

  It's a lot of stuff about 2019, me too.

• 58:33Dan Harris?

  I think you're awesome. Thank you for coming on.

• 58:34Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me.

• 58:35Dan Harris?

  Appreciate it. One last thing before I let you go. If you want to listen to this show without ads, check out 10% happier plus, which is a subscription that is available right inside Apple Podcasts. If you become a subscriber, you'll get every episode ad-free. That's new episodes and all the episodes from our vast 10-year-plus archive. Look for 10% happier plus in Apple Podcasts and just hit subscribe. And a quick heads up, if you're already a subscriber to my app, 10% with Dan Harris, you've already got access to ad-free podcasts. Ad-free listening is baked right into your app subscription along with everything else. So please don't pay twice. You can check out the app at danharris.com and you can check out 10% happier plus

• 59:19Dan Harris?

  inside Apple Podcasts. Thank you very much for listening to the show. I deeply appreciate it. See you soon. Deuces. Thank you so much to everybody who worked so hard to make this show. 10% happier is produced by Tara Anderson, Marissa Schneiderman, DJ Cashmere, David Hart, and Hayden Broome. Our recording and engineering is handled by the great folks over at Pod People. And Nick Thorburn of the indie rock band Islands wrote our theme. Thanks for listening. Peace.

• 59:52Speaker 03

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