OpenAI Cracks Navier-Stokes, Tech Trailers, AI Jobs Apocalypse on Hold | Diet TBPN

Diet TBPN delivers the best of today’s TBPN episode in 30 minutes. TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with each episode posted to podcast platforms right after. Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” the show has recently featured Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella. TBPN is made possible by: Ramp - https://ramp.com Public - https://public.com Cisco - https://www.cisco.com Console - https://www.console.com CrowdStrike - https://www.crowdstrike.com Figma - https://www.figma.com MongoDB - https://www.mongodb.com NYSE - https://www.nyse.com Railway - https://railway.com Shopify - https://www.shopify.com/ Follow TBPN: https://TBPN.com https://x.com/tbpn https://open.spotify.com/show/2L6WMqY3GUPCGBD0dX6p00?si=674252d53acf4231 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/technology-brothers/id1772360235 https://www.youtube.com/@TBPNLive

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01John Coogan?

  Does math matter? That's the big question. I was debating this with Tyler today. Lots of, lots of, lots of tension on the timeline over Navier-Stokes, the Millennium Prize math problem. There has been a Millennium Prize math problem that was solved before the Poindexter conjecture in the pre-AI era. These are very, very difficult math problems that all PhD mathematicians, all sorts of elite, the upper echelon of math has been grappling with for years. And AI is starting to knock these down. Remember, last year was the year of the IMO gold medals from both Google, DeepMind and OpenAI. We talked to Scott Wu about this, who's coming on the show later today. Huge race for cognition.

• 0:46John Coogan?

  And Scott made the prediction on TBPN early in 2025 that he believed that artificial intelligence would be able to achieve gold at the IMO, the International Math Olympiad in 2025. And he was right. He nailed it. Progress continued, but debate remained around cool calculator, bro. Basically is the, is the critique. I mean, people just, they don't feel empowered by a system that's really good at math. They just, people, already a TI83 can do more complex math than most people can do. And so when you say, oh, there's another level of math that you don't know about

• 1:29John Coogan?

  and you don't care about and computers are good at it, a lot of people, their eyes glaze over. And so the bigger question here for me is all about the, the public perception. What actually matters here? I think they're cool benchmarks. I think they're interesting stories. Obviously, there's a lot of drama over this race. It feels like it was neck and neck. Now there's a bunch of debates going back and forth with a mathematician who works at Google and a mathematician who's independent, who worked alongside an anthropic researcher, who were both working on it. And they were apparently texting back and forth and going back and forth on, did they steal the, the data? Did they copy each other's? Do they have different approaches? And so lots of different back and forth.

• 2:10John Coogan?

  And I think someone summed it up well by saying that these math models have discovered the, the hardest problem of advanced mathematics, which is authorship contribution. Who actually did the work? Who gets lead left on the paper? But yeah, there was, there was a drama last year, 2025, during the IMO. OpenAI and Google DeepMind, and I believe Harmonic, the math AI lab that we had on the show last week, were all working on solving the International Math Olympiad. Remember, there's six questions. Question six, no AI model could solve. It was more complex. But both teams got a 35 out of 42. There was a bunch of back and forth because OpenAI validated with former IMO gold medalists,

• 2:53John Coogan?

  while Google's result was graded by the official rubric that year, which is internal to the organization. We called it at the time. It's like they ran the fastest 100 meter sprint in the parking lot, while the, while the actual Olympics is going on in the stadium. And so a lot of these are just, you know, vibe wars, races, who does what? Does it even matter? The interesting thing about Navier-Stokes is, does it matter, Tyler? You think it does? I'll debate you on this a little bit. It seems like it doesn't because the equations themselves are known. They're just not fully proven. Engineers and physicists already solve them numerically all the time for a particular situation.

• 3:37John Coogan?

  So airflow around a wing, you might have to use some of these equations. Weather models, water through a pipe. These are critical things. They are boring, but you can imagine that there would be cause for optimism. You know, better weather models save lives during hurricane season. Increased airflow across an airplane wing, that could lead to more efficiency, longer ranges, cheaper flights, lower carbon emissions. There's a bunch of reasons why you could solve all that and be excited. But that's not actually what

• 4:07Jordi Hays?

  One of the reasons I'm excited, I believe we agreed last week that if anyone solved Navier-Stokes, Tyler would shave his head.

• 4:13John Coogan?

  Oh, that's right. Didn't we do that? We said something.

• 4:17Jordi Hays?

  No, no, that was about the

• 4:19John Coogan?

  Oh, that was the

• 4:19Jordi Hays?

  The details are kind of fun.

• 4:20John Coogan?

  The details don't matter.

• 4:21Jordi Hays?

  Get ready to shave your head, buddy. But yeah, this is a big moment.

• 4:24John Coogan?

  Yeah, I think it was actually more, it was if any, if any AI progress happens at all, Tyler shaved his head.

• 4:30Jordi Hays?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 4:31John Coogan?

  But do you have a steel man for why this matters?

• 4:33Speaker 02

  So I, I think I agree that like, I don't think that the breakthrough, you know, this new stuff that's going on is like practically super useful. I don't think you're going to feel it when you're, when you're on an airplane. You're not going to feel like less turbulence now because of this. But I think these are like the most important open math problems. I think like these are more close to like, you know, a beautiful painting or something than like some like practical engineering breakthrough.

• 4:56John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 4:57Speaker 02

  Like this is like pure math. This is like the, you know, this is the peak of the mountain of like

• 5:01John Coogan?

  Same month, same month that AI solved this incredibly difficult math problem. I saw someone use ChatGPT to book a haircut. So the No, I mean, in terms of the actual economy, the actual impact of these things, like practically using these tools for something that people enjoy, that's not just spinning their wheels, it's not just optimizing endless things, that's actually generative and moving things forward, not just defending against cyber attacks, doing something

• 5:31Jordi Hays?

  Winston says, if he gets a Millennium Prize, you all have to get bowl cuts.

• 5:35John Coogan?

  Oh, bowl cuts.

• 5:37Jordi Hays?

  Bowl cuts are interesting.

• 5:38John Coogan?

  That's really, really ridiculous. You do get a million bucks. So, you know, there's that. That's not nothing, but in the AGI race where trillions are being deployed, it is, it is very minimal. It sounds like cause for optimism that Navier-Stokes would improve airflow over a wing, something like that. But that's not really how it will work. Proving this, this, these equations is unlikely to actually have any measurable, measurable impact. And that's sort of agreed upon. And physicists have sort of chimed in with this take that this doesn't, this won't actually move the discipline of engineering forward at all. But it is a cool demo. So clearly it matters for hype and vibes.

• 6:20John Coogan?

  Solving how math problems is good heuristic to show how quickly models are progressing.

• 6:24Jordi Hays?

  But yeah, and to me, it just comes down to humans are able to use machines that humans built to further humanity's general knowledge.

• 6:34John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, it's good. But I feel like benchmarks and if you're just trying to measure AI progress, benchmarks and raw inputs and raw metrics of the model sort of do the same thing. Like the number of people who will be convinced that AI is progressing exponentially because they see this result. And then you look at the number of people that are, that would be equally convinced of AI progress just by hearing, oh, there's, you know, 10 gigawatts coming online or the new model has 10 trillion parameters or it was trained with a billion dollars of compute or something like that.

• 7:06Jordi Hays?

  What you're saying is the average person is probably more impressed by Sora than by this.

• 7:11John Coogan?

  Totally, totally. It's way more visceral to actually see something. And that's why the weekend was very much Blender and people showing 3D renders and remodeling their houses and building small games and web games. And that feels much more like a, okay, breakthrough. People are having fun. They're vibe coding stuff, but they're also doing 3D modeling, which is like a new skill. We've had image generation, video generation, but there's something much more, I don't know, like grounded in watching a, from just a few images, watching a Blender model come to life. You can walk around inside of it and it can be something that you know the model doesn't exist. I saw a few demos that were like a train and it was like, oh, wow.

• 7:55John Coogan?

  I modeled this amazing train, but there are perfectly modeled trains out there that you can just go grab from the internet. That's not that impressive when you actually see your, your specific house or your car or something that doesn't already exist out there perfectly modeled. You're like, wow.

• 8:11Jordi Hays?

  Sorry to interrupt. John Anderson says, why are we only seeing the calendar days for Road to Christmas? Can we please get a weekdays and workdays breakdown for Die Hard? Yeah, we need it. We need a full, full screen graphics. So let's, let's work on that. Thank you. Thank you, John.

• 8:25John Coogan?

  Good comment. Yeah. So in terms of field, the AGI, computer use, definitely one of these. Astra particularly faster at computer use for like really, really mundane things. Also just interesting to just have a very different interface to your computer, like configurations, all the things we're used to have to dig through, dig through a bunch of settings, maybe set something on the command line, maybe find a control panel. You can just ask Codex or any AI agent to go and do it and it'll just do it and come back to you.

• 8:55Jordi Hays?

  One of the use cases that I'm excited about is getting, you know, when you get a parking ticket and then you're like, I got this parking ticket. I want to deal with it. And it's like, well, the ticket is not in the portal yet.

• 9:07John Coogan?

  Sure.

• 9:07Jordi Hays?

  Being able to go into chat and say, hey, this, once this ticket is live in the system, please pay it.

• 9:15John Coogan?

  Parking

• 9:15Jordi Hays?

  And so you can just forget about it.

• 9:16John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 9:17Jordi Hays?

  Parking ticket, super intelligence.

• 9:19John Coogan?

  It is.

• 9:20Jordi Hays?

  It feels like we're close.

• 9:21John Coogan?

  So yeah, I think that the Millennium Prizes will get solved or proved or delivered probably this year, if not like this week. It feels like all of the different labs are like, put a million dollars of inference on this. Put a million dollars of inference on this. There is going to be a back and forth and, and the labs are going to very quickly solve basically all of these problems. And then there'll be a search for new problems. But the conversation will move back to curing cancer, almost certainly. Because that's the one that's so grounded. That's the one that's, you know, supposed to be tractable. It's been messaged from various labs for so long that people will, will, will want that.

• 10:02John Coogan?

  But there will be a longer flywheel from actually designing a cure for a specific cancer, running tests, seeing that it was effective. You, you can't do it with a million dollars of inference over a weekend, I think. But that's, I, my prediction is like the conversation will go back to biotech after we basically solve math, which is a crazy thing to say, but it feels like we're there. What do you think?

• 10:24Jordi Hays?

  Yeah. All the conversation.

• 10:27John Coogan?

  Yeah, people say

• 10:29Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, yeah. It's so one, the pharmaceutical industry has been curing

• 10:35John Coogan?

  Big pharma.

• 10:37Jordi Hays?

  Forms of cancer or or making progress against various forms of cancer for a very long time.

• 10:42John Coogan?

  Get zero credit.

• 10:43Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, zero credit. Worst reputation of any category of businesses on the planet.

• 10:49John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 10:50Jordi Hays?

  And so I don't think that that's like this, like, you know, that I don't think that's the solution to sentiment around the technology industry.

• 10:59John Coogan?

  Yeah, I know. I just this weekend I saw someone.

• 11:02Jordi Hays?

  And setting up this idea, like, imagine how underwhelming it will be if any AI lab comes out and makes like 20% progress towards one specific type of cancer.

• 11:14John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 11:15Jordi Hays?

  Right? That's not going to come across as like, oh, wow.

• 11:17John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 11:17Jordi Hays?

  They cured cancer.

• 11:18John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 11:18Jordi Hays?

  It's like, OK, they sort of advanced understanding and maybe the

• 11:22John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 11:23Jordi Hays?

  treatment process. And and this type of thing is happening all the time. Anybody who's had a family member that's that's suffered from cancer has heard about, hey, there's this thing in trials that's showing promising results, trying to get you into it or whatever. So that's happening all the time.

• 11:38John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 11:39Jordi Hays?

  Right? And it's not going to suddenly change how people feel about

• 11:42John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 11:42Jordi Hays?

  the technology industry broadly.

• 11:43John Coogan?

  No, it'll diffuse slowly and people will be back in like the, what have you done for me lately? I don't know. It's going to be, it's going to be back and forth forever. But anyway, in the meantime, somebody gave Astra a paintbrush, a robot, and a camera and asked it to paint the Golden Gate Bridge in real life. It figured out how to control the robot and progressively got better throughout its attempts. The time lapse is sick. Here's a one minute time lapse of I don't know how to pronounce this, but his account painting the Golden Gate Bridge. How would you rate this, Jordy?

• 12:21Jordi Hays?

  It appears better than I could do.

• 12:24John Coogan?

  Better than you could do? How long are you giving yourself?

• 12:26Jordi Hays?

  I'm saying at least by the by the the later attempts.

• 12:30John Coogan?

  OK, the later attempts, because it gets better.

• 12:31Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 12:32John Coogan?

  The first one was not quite, not quite there, in my opinion. Still, pretty impressive. Yeah, somebody was talking about potential for a 3D printer boom with all the 3D modeling, the idea that you could, you can design. I saw someone else designed a system where you can, from a prompt, go from prompt to Lego kit, basically, in one go. So it it takes your prompt, whatever you gave it.

• 12:57Jordi Hays?

  Like, look at this, John.

• 12:59John Coogan?

  That looks pretty good.

• 13:00Jordi Hays?

  That's solid.

• 13:00John Coogan?

  That's pretty solid. I think you could do better with enough time. I don't know how long that took, but it is impressive. It's a fun, fun demo. And again, it like lives in the real world. It's not abstract at all, so you can just watch it work, watch it do the thing.

• 13:14Jordi Hays?

  One of the best reactions to Astra's release last week was Josh, who's over at Sentry. His company was acquired by Sentry. He said, after Astra's release yesterday, scoring 99% on ARC AGI 3, I think it's become clear that AGI is no longer some distant hypothetical. About 15 minutes after the benchmarks came out, I booked the first flight I could find to Jackson Hole. And he goes on to say, he's also looking into purchasing a horse. At this point, horses remain one of the only major transportation platforms with no API, no OTA updates, and no realistic path to MCP support. So glad to see more people

• 13:54John Coogan?

  Getting into horses.

• 13:55Jordi Hays?

  Getting into the horse game. Another good demo from Somewhere Z. Astra, he says, Astra and I are working on making my contact form as difficult as possible. You actually have to fight a boss battle

• 14:06John Coogan?

  This is hilarious.

• 14:10Jordi Hays?

  in order to contact them.

• 14:11John Coogan?

  That's amazing. This looks like a, I might try and contact Somewhere Z after this. This is pretty fun. Yeah, the the the defeat of all of the captchas is somewhat linked to the the Instinct news. Did you see that this weekend, Jordy?

• 14:27Jordi Hays?

  Oh, yeah, the Resy bans.

• 14:29John Coogan?

  Yeah, so Instinct is a personal assistant AI focused on consumer. You link it with your email, your text messages. And we've seen a lot of investors sharing posts about how they're using.

• 14:43Jordi Hays?

  For what it's worth, I'd be surprised if anyone in the audience hasn't already heard of Instinct.

• 14:47John Coogan?

  Yeah, and we talked about it before.

• 14:48Jordi Hays?

  But thank you for, thank you for reintroducing.

• 14:51John Coogan?

  But but I but I think it's worth like explaining like how it works, because it does seem like it triggered some bans. There was one report of an individual who got banned from Resy because they were absolutely spamming to get reservations to restaurants.

• 15:06Jordi Hays?

  And there was another example of somebody who was at the US Open, was on the fan cam and then wanted the footage.

• 15:12John Coogan?

  Oh, that was really cool.

• 15:13Jordi Hays?

  And as the user experience would have been absolutely incredible, right?

• 15:17John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 15:18Jordi Hays?

  You're sitting there and you're like, hey, I appeared on the screen

• 15:21John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 15:21Jordi Hays?

  for a moment. Can you, can you go and find this?

• 15:23John Coogan?

  I've had that idea so many times, like, oh, go find someone on the, on the

• 15:27Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 15:27John Coogan?

  on the fan cam.

• 15:27Jordi Hays?

  But I think what Instinct was doing in the background was being absolutely relentless. And it seems like it was

• 15:34John Coogan?

  Essentially annoying.

• 15:34Jordi Hays?

  reaching out to hundreds of people aggressively, you know, following up.

• 15:39John Coogan?

  Like emailing the media contacts. But they did wind up getting the video.

• 15:42Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, it worked.

• 15:43John Coogan?

  And it was mutually beneficial. And you could imagine if the other side has agent intermediation and filtering and can process things that are spam like, but there's actually a reasonable action to take, that could make it through a filter and not actually annoy anyone on the other side. So that was a very, that was probably a glimpse into the future and like a cause for optimism. I could see, I could see that being popular. But people are doing all sorts of stuff. The classic example is like, go save money, get refunds, do that sort of stuff. But people are having fun, fun with that. So many demos. This 3D website that pulls apart the male anatomy into 200, 2,234 modeled pieces.

• 16:23John Coogan?

  I share this with a friend who was trying to like explain in one video what to get like their wheels turning. I think this is a good example. I wonder how much of this was like individually modeled versus pulled from an existing model and then just animated, but certainly works well.

• 16:39Jordi Hays?

  It's trailer time.

• 16:40John Coogan?

  OK, it's trailer time.

• 16:41Jordi Hays?

  We got two trailers that hit the timeline. Let's start with Nathan Fielder and his new film featuring none other than Elizabeth Holmes.

• 16:51John Coogan?

  Elizabeth Holmes. Filmed before she went to prison.

• 16:54Speaker 03

  I can promise you that.

• 16:55John Coogan?

  A24 is gonna tear.

• 16:59Speaker 03

  I don't have anything to deceive you on. Of course I'm not deceiving you. I'm engaging like it was a human being. Why would I deceive you? There's no, there's no reason for me to do that.

• 17:14John Coogan?

  OK. The acting is so good. OK, good shot. How long is this?

• 17:36Jordi Hays?

  It's being real right now.

• 17:38Speaker 03

  I'm always being real.

• 17:52John Coogan?

  The team is stoked. Looks beautiful.

• 17:56Jordi Hays?

  Saw a post, somebody saying, it feels like I'm living in a simulation

• 17:59John Coogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 17:59Jordi Hays?

  because this media product is like perfectly

• 18:02John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 18:02Jordi Hays?

  It's like, you would think that, you would, you would think that a movie like this wouldn't get made by, I don't know, A24, specifically because it feels like the TAM is just like 20,000 people. But but in

• 18:16John Coogan?

  The Theranos story was really big.

• 18:18Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 18:18John Coogan?

  She was on the cover of Time Magazine, I believe, and cover of major magazines. It was all over the news when it happened.

• 18:24Jordi Hays?

  No, it's a lot bigger than you would.

• 18:26John Coogan?

  The John Kerry book is just a fascinating read. It's a real page turner. And so I think a lot of people read the book. The adaptation of the actual play by play story, not the documentary, but the, what do they call it, biopic, I guess. That, I think, did not break through in the same way. But it certainly like continued to elevate her persona. And then the the posting has been like kept her relevant, like, there's

• 18:50Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, there was some speculation that maybe it was Nathan that got access to the account.

• 18:56John Coogan?

  Completely disagree with that.

• 18:58Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 18:58John Coogan?

  I do not think that's at all. I think that would violate some tenet of what it means to do a documentary. I mean, Nathan blurs lines all the time in terms of how he interacts with his subjects. So it's certainly possible, but I just don't, I just don't think that's reasonable at all. I think they're her

• 19:16Jordi Hays?

  How much do we know outside of the trailer, though? Like, we don't know.

• 19:19John Coogan?

  Well, this was leaked something like a year ago from a journalist who got the story and it was widely denied that it was happening. And he was very upset that he wasn't getting enough credit for being correct here. He ultimately was. But yeah, all we know is that they filmed the documentary in the lead up to her actually going to prison after sentencing. There was a pretty large gap before when she had to report to the prison. She gets out in 2030, so coming up, three years, four years away. And so I believe even in a week, you can get a lot of footage if you're spending the full, you know, every day with someone.

• 19:59John Coogan?

  And then there were a number of visits to the facility by Nathan that were recorded, probably talking through glass or talking at a table, something like that. So we don't know much.

• 20:10Jordi Hays?

  You thinking what I'm thinking?

• 20:11John Coogan?

  What?

• 20:12Jordi Hays?

  SBF Nathan Fielder.

• 20:14John Coogan?

  Ooh.

• 20:14Jordi Hays?

  A sequel to this one.

• 20:16John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 20:16Jordi Hays?

  This just becomes like a

• 20:18John Coogan?

  The problem is that he's already in jail, so the question is just what else does Nathan for Nathan Fielder have in the can? Who knows? There, there's a rumor that he's secretly running a boy band right now. There's this rumor that that there's a boy band that's popular on Tik. This is real, that's popular on TikTok, that's entirely invented by him.

• 20:40Jordi Hays?

  Boythrob.

• 20:40John Coogan?

  Boythrob, yeah. Are you familiar with this?

• 20:42Jordi Hays?

  Really? I thought you were going to say he's Nathan Fielder is SD kid. Stay with us in the trailer zone.

• 20:50John Coogan?

  Artificial.

• 20:51Jordi Hays?

  Trailer dropped just this morning.

• 21:01Speaker 04

  What is the image of the future that you see?

• 21:05Jordi Hays?

  Wait, pause. Was that a Valkyrie?

• 21:08John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 21:09Jordi Hays?

  Okay. Continue.

• 21:14Jordi Hays?

  So the visuals are already incredible.

• 21:18John Coogan?

  They really are.

• 21:21John Coogan?

  I'm pretty sure it's a Valkyrie. It might be a Valhalla.

• 21:24Speaker 05

  We've created a machine that will solve the world's problems.

• 21:29Jordi Hays?

  We don't teach you. Gate check, gate check. It teaches itself.

• 21:34John Coogan?

  Gate check? Oh, the gate.

• 21:37John Coogan?

  For sure.

• 21:38Speaker 04

  We open Pandora's box together. The future's inevitable. Countries will fall.

• 21:46Speaker 04

  Industries are gonna collapse.

• 21:49John Coogan?

  The voice is still Eduardo Sabrin. But the styling and the crazy thing is I have that exact backpack.

• 21:56Speaker 04

  Get to be the one.

• 21:58John Coogan?

  I think I got it recommended by MKBHD.

• 22:00Speaker 04

  To shepherd people in to this new world.

• 22:08John Coogan?

  Lots of cameos, not cameos, but.

• 22:12Speaker 04

  I'm so excited to see it.

• 22:23John Coogan?

  Dramatic.

• 22:24Jordi Hays?

  Dramatic.

• 22:24John Coogan?

  Be interesting. It'll be interesting to see the takeaway. People in the chat are back and forth. Is it too soon? Is it unnecessary? Is it gonna be something that like the social network is divisive? But also like it's oddly inspiring to a certain cohort of entrepreneurs. We'll see. We'll see what the reactions are.

• 22:46Jordi Hays?

  Yeah. Do you think that was, uh, do you think Hollywood took away?

• 22:51Jordi Hays?

  Any lesson from the social network? In that they were trying to frame Mark Zuckerberg as this like generally, you know, troubled person. And then a lot of people came away feeling like, wow, I want to be like Mark Zuckerberg.

• 23:03John Coogan?

  Yeah, sort of a, yeah, but yeah, unintended consequence of it. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, they're going back for a second, a second scoop of the ice cream with the social network, the social reckoning. Is there a trailer out or just images? I think, I think we saw that too. So it'll be interesting to see what, uh, what happens there.

• 23:22Jordi Hays?

  But get your tuxes ready. Going back to back. Artificial social reckoning and then capping it off with.

• 23:28John Coogan?

  See everything.

• 23:30Jordi Hays?

  Yes.

• 23:30John Coogan?

  And then also, uh, the, uh, the To Catch Predator movie. That's gonna be a good one.

• 23:38Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, outside of tech, tech world.

• 23:40John Coogan?

  Yeah, I guess you're right.

• 23:41Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 23:41John Coogan?

  But still.

• 23:42Jordi Hays?

  Triple feature.

• 23:43John Coogan?

  Yeah, it just feels like it's a, it's a year of like niche movies that I expect to be breakouts. I guess, like, you know, along with like back rooms and obsession and, and these two movies and then the documentaries. There's a lot of things that are like oddly specific, but I would expect they do well, but I don't know. We'll see.

• 24:03Jordi Hays?

  And while we're at it, let's stay in the trailer zone and let's pull up the social reckoning.

• 24:08John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 24:08Jordi Hays?

  The official teaser.

• 24:09Speaker 06

  But I am. I am here to help Facebook, not hurt it. Okay?

• 24:14Speaker 07

  You send me a message. What would you like to talk about?

• 24:22Speaker 08

  The chairman gavels a session to order.

• 24:26Speaker 08

  You'll read your opening statement, which we'll skip past for now. That's a separate session.

• 24:30John Coogan?

  And which, which one is this about? I don't, I don't think this is based on the, the politics. It's not Cambridge Analytica. It's the Francis Haugen teenage girl whistleblower thing, which honestly looks a lot different in the backdrop of the addiction trials. I wonder if they were trying to get this out before the trials went through.

• 24:52Speaker 06

  Aren't you a tech reporter?

• 24:55Speaker 07

  Ish.

• 24:55Speaker 06

  Ish?

• 24:56Speaker 09

  These guys are counting on the next round of congressional testimony to make you likable, Mark. I'm happy to lend a hand, but I think you're doomed.

• 25:07Speaker 07

  This company and that guy are playing an unprecedented role in our lives.

• 25:13Speaker 10

  The fire hose of bad information you are injecting into the air supply is becoming jet pilot.

• 25:17Speaker 11

  I'm a free speech absolutist. I'm not the one who's lying and I'm not stopping them from seeing someone who is. Anxiety, depression of teenage girls got worse as a result of time spent on the platform.

• 25:29Speaker 06

  Senior leadership knows and is doing nothing.

• 25:32Speaker 12

  I know there are easier enemies to make. The mafia would be an easier enemy to make.

• 25:37Speaker 12

  So what would you need? To stand up the story, the internal documents.

• 25:40Speaker 06

  This is a material violation of my NDA.

• 25:42Speaker 12

  We're twice as big as the biggest country on earth. We're not frightened of Congress. We're post-government around here. Please. Who is that supposed to be? Please let me quote that.

• 25:50Speaker 06

  We have a hundred and two hours to get everything.

• 25:53Speaker 12

  She's gonna get sued into small pieces.

• 25:55Speaker 06

  I don't want to be made an example of by a guy with unlimited resources. Heart, I promise you is.

• 26:00Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, so chat is calling it out, but I don't think that, I think this one, I think this one's gonna flop for sure.

• 26:08John Coogan?

  Because of the lack of supercars?

• 26:10Jordi Hays?

  Well, lack of supercars and this is just not top, this story is no longer top of mind.

• 26:17John Coogan?

  Sure.

• 26:17Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, people want to hear about like the talent wars. They don't want to hear about like this kind of stuff.

• 26:21John Coogan?

  They do. The talent wars. If there's no Alex Wang character, I'm not, I'm not paying good money.

• 26:29Jordi Hays?

  SaaS chain says, ooh, technology is so scary.

• 26:36John Coogan?

  Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, they, I mean, they should do more tech movies, maybe, uh, maybe SaaS apocalypse comeback.

• 26:42Jordi Hays?

  SC says it will flop because no Brazilian jujitsu. Yeah, this was in the pre jujitsu era.

• 26:46John Coogan?

  That's true. A lot of it is in the script. Yeah, UFC.

• 26:51Jordi Hays?

  If there's the, the social network three and all the scenes where Zuck is talking, he's in the middle of grappling.

• 26:57John Coogan?

  How, how is it 2026 and we don't have a Salesforce movie?

• 27:00Jordi Hays?

  Seriously.

• 27:01John Coogan?

  Like the, the comeback, the SaaS apocalypse.

• 27:04Jordi Hays?

  Or at least a documentary on the relationship that he has with the dolphins.

• 27:07John Coogan?

  That would be great. That would be great.

• 27:09Jordi Hays?

  And the, and the wildlife generally. Here's a concept, Dolphin Force. How one man tamed.

• 27:15John Coogan?

  It's a good story.

• 27:16Jordi Hays?

  Wild dolphins.

• 27:17John Coogan?

  It's maybe the best origin story of a tech company ever.

• 27:20Jordi Hays?

  Benioff famously conceived the vision for Salesforce in 1999 while swimming with a pod of roughly 100 dolphins off the coast of Hawaii during a sabbatical. Feeling one with the pod, he envisioned cloud-delivered enterprise software, leading him to quit Oracle and secure $2 million in seed funding from his mentor Larry Ellison.

• 27:40John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 27:41Jordi Hays?

  Incredible.

• 27:42John Coogan?

  Anyway, uh, in other news, uh, lots of craziness in the AI world, lots of new models. But the jobs apocalypse has been officially postponed by The Economist. An AI jobs boom is here and, uh, people have a wide range of takes on this. Is it just postponed? Is it permanently postponed? Kevin Bryan summed it up well. He said, I am shocked, shocked. So he's being sarcastic, of course. Shocked to find out that a productivity-enhancing, investment-supporting technology is good for workers. Knowing nothing else, this should be year prior because this is how productivity in competitive markets almost always works. A new technology comes out, it supports investment, it enhances productivity.

• 28:26John Coogan?

  Everyone hires to go after all the, all the different battles. But The Economist breaks it down in a lot more detail with a bunch of charts and a bunch of data. So they say, perhaps AI will eventually make many humans unemployable, but there's no sign of it yet. On September 4th, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported that the American economy added 162,000 jobs in August, far above expectations. The unemployment rate, just 4.1%, lower than almost 90% of months over the past 50 years. Young workers, often cast as AI's first victims, are holding up remarkably well. The gap between unemployment among 20 to 24-year-olds and the overall rate is close to a multi-decade low.

• 29:10John Coogan?

  Some companies and workers are being severely disrupted by AI. Hiring professional and business services is running 10% below the average from 2015 to 2019. Tech giants like Microsoft and Meta are trimming headcounts as they reorganize their businesses around the technology. Smaller firms such as Block, which is sort of a crazy mog, smaller firms, but it is smaller than Microsoft and Meta. Block, the owner of Square and Cash App, and Intuit, the maker of TurboTax and QuickBooks, are replacing people with bots. American companies have announced some 16,000 AI-related job cuts a month on average so far this year, according to Challenger, Graham, Christmas, unemployment consultancy.

• 29:50John Coogan?

  But AI-related layoffs get lost in the churning job markets where, so you remember that number? So 16,000 AI-related job cuts a month? In a typical month, the US workforce just churns 1.7 million jobs. And then they add 1.8 million jobs. So there's net gains, but you're looking at less than 1% of the layoffs that happen in the economy or job losses or firings. Less than 1% is AI, AI-related, which is what The Economist is pointing out here. And the evidence so far is that AI is already creating a lot of jobs to replace those as, uh, to replace those as it has destroyed.

• 30:34John Coogan?

  The vast sums pouring into data centers and power generation have set off a race for construction and infrastructure workers. AI startups are hiring like there's no tomorrow. Incumbents are racing to keep up with new AI roles and making some workers more productive. AI may be increasing the demand for their services. Add it all up and The Economist estimates that AI so far has created around 1 million new jobs in America that easily exceeds the roughly 200,000 layoffs attributed to AI since mid 2023. We're back. It's September. We're going in the fourth hour. Get ready.

• 31:07Jordi Hays?

  108 days until Christmas.

• 31:10John Coogan?

  Fifth hour.

• 31:11Jordi Hays?

  I got a text from a buddy.

• 31:13John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 31:13Jordi Hays?

  Who saw, or sorry, 107 days. He said he already got his tree out.

• 31:19Jordi Hays?

  I can't tell if he's messing with me.

• 31:20John Coogan?

  Anyway, thank you for tuning into TBP and we will be back tomorrow at 11 AM sharp.

• 31:27Jordi Hays?

  We love you guys.

• 31:27John Coogan?

  Those five stars on Apple Podcasts, Spotify.