Meta Introducing Class C Stock, iPhone Duo’s Botched Launch | Diet TBPN

Diet TBPN delivers the best of today’s TBPN episode in 30 minutes. TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with each episode posted to podcast platforms right after. Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” the show has recently featured Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella. TBPN is made possible by: Ramp - https://ramp.com Public - https://public.com Cisco - https://www.cisco.com Console - https://www.console.com CrowdStrike - https://www.crowdstrike.com Figma - https://www.figma.com MongoDB - https://www.mongodb.com NYSE - https://www.nyse.com Railway - https://railway.com Shopify - https://www.shopify.com/ Follow TBPN: https://TBPN.com https://x.com/tbpn https://open.spotify.com/show/2L6WMqY3GUPCGBD0dX6p00?si=674252d53acf4231 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/technology-brothers/id1772360235 https://www.youtube.com/@TBPNLive

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01John Coogan?

  Yeah, the show yesterday was good. Tyler did a good job, but I think he had the deck stacked in his favor. He had a stacked lineup. You got Nakesh Aurora on, Aiden Smith from Flapping Airplanes, Akil Air, Max from La Gora.

• 0:14Jordi Hays?

  He was dialed.

• 0:15John Coogan?

  It was easy mode for Tyler. I want to see Tyler do a show with just Jordy, tier list of a mansion where Jordy doesn't want to say his true opinion because he knows the guy that owns the house. That's what makes a great co-host. If you want to elevate from sub-host to co-host, I think that's what you gotta do. You gotta put the screws to Jordy when he doesn't want to give his true take and get him to crash out. That's what I want to see. But no, fantastic job.

• 0:41Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, you didn't get me to crash out.

• 0:42John Coogan?

  No, no, no.

• 0:43Jordi Hays?

  But you know who did crash out?

• 0:45John Coogan?

  You gotta bait him.

• 0:45Jordi Hays?

  You know who did crash out?

• 0:46John Coogan?

  Who, who?

• 0:47Jordi Hays?

  Trevor Milton.

• 0:47John Coogan?

  Trevor Milton?

• 0:48Jordi Hays?

  Crashed out in the...

• 0:50John Coogan?

  Well, you crashed out.

• 0:51Jordi Hays?

  I crashed out and then he responded.

• 0:53John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 0:54Jordi Hays?

  So, we had a... We talked about Trevor Milton's new jet company.

• 1:00John Coogan?

  He had a, I mean, an announcement, a launch, an event.

• 1:03Jordi Hays?

  An unveiling.

• 1:04John Coogan?

  Where he put the plane on its wheels or potentially some sticks.

• 1:09Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, so the plane... The plane was a, like a full-scale mock-up.

• 1:15John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 1:16Jordi Hays?

  It was not meant to be a real plane.

• 1:18John Coogan?

  They have a real plane separately. This is a build of the new plane.

• 1:23Jordi Hays?

  Yes, yes.

• 1:24John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 1:25Jordi Hays?

  And anyway, so we posted the video and what did Trevor, what did Trevor actually say?

• 1:30John Coogan?

  He was firing off in the comments.

• 1:32Jordi Hays?

  He responded to our video saying, "Haters are going to hate. We already have more than 50 on order/LOIs by real buyers."

• 1:40John Coogan?

  Not bad.

• 1:41Jordi Hays?

  "It might be the most successful jet launch to date. Keep on talking smack. It makes us work harder and we love the trolling hate." "Living rent-free in your head." He was also going back and forth with some other people.

• 1:55John Coogan?

  Yeah, he was.

• 1:56Jordi Hays?

  In the comments. A lot of people were saying, "Definitely not buying a plane from Trevor Milton." And he responded, "We wouldn't sell you one."

• 2:05John Coogan?

  And I go the other way. I think, I think finally a plane exists for the thrill seeker. You know, flying private's such a luxury, but we know that once you get to a certain level of wealth, you gotta put it all on the line. You gotta climb Mount Everest. You gotta be risking it all on the track, skydiving. You gotta be into extreme sports. So, a plane that's a little, little rough around the edges is gonna bring you back down to earth. It's gonna give you some thrill, some excitement, get your heart racing. And for a certain buyer, that's gonna be very attractive. So, I think that's actually probably a risk to the upside.

• 2:39Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 2:39John Coogan?

  In this case.

• 2:40Jordi Hays?

  So, another...

• 2:41Speaker 02

  You gotta be greedy when others are fearful.

• 2:42John Coogan?

  You gotta be greedy when others are fearful on these planes? Okay.

• 2:46Jordi Hays?

  Another media company, The VIP Seat, said, "We were there for the unveil, posted about how poor the presentation was." And he started attacking everyone on X.

• 2:55John Coogan?

  And then he came over to Instagram.

• 2:57Jordi Hays?

  And Trevor says, "You're the only clown who would be dumb enough to allege that." Literally, the entire NBAA has been raving about us by the thousand and landed almost a billion in orders. What else did he say? "A billion in orders. Keep posting your Tesla troll wannabe comments." "And we'll keep building an incredible plane that you only wish you could fly. Your hate fuels us. Living rent-free in your head." So, he's living rent-free in a lot of heads. The plane was supported by a post, and again, this was a, this was a mock-up.

• 3:32Jordi Hays?

  But when Trevor Milton responded to the picture of the post and said, "You're literally misleading the world. See the real picture. At least report honestly, LMAO." And he posted a picture of a different picture of the plane.

• 3:45John Coogan?

  Different picture of the plane, but most importantly, understand the aesthetics of what he just did. This is a lead posting because he should have photos of this plane saved to his camera roll. He didn't. He went to what appears to be Google Images or something, found a horizontal, a landscape picture of the plane, took a screenshot of it in portrait mode to make the image of the plane extremely small, didn't crop it out so you can see his battery level and the time at which he took the screenshot. That is just a level of unk posting that you very rarely see on the internet these days. Most people, even if they go for the screenshot, they'll do the courtesy crop before they share the screenshot. And maybe they won't crop out the...

• 4:29Jordi Hays?

  Maybe not a perfect crop.

• 4:30John Coogan?

  Yeah, occasionally some of the chrome, some of the extra buttons might get in there, a little watermark might sneak in. But you're still doing the person the courtesy of cropping it down so they can see the image basically full screen if they want. He didn't do that. He drops the portrait screenshot of a landscape photo. That's elite unk posting. I don't know how else to describe it.

• 4:49Jordi Hays?

  I was somewhat confused because the picture was posted by Preston Holland. And he said, "You're literally misleading the world. See the real picture. At least report honestly, LMAO." And I was very confused by this because it seemed like he was implying that that wasn't how they presented the plane. But I went and checked and saw actual video of the plane in the post. And so, he seems to be alleging that this post or the VIP Seat slash Preston is misleading the world, when in fact, that is just a real picture of the presentation.

• 5:21John Coogan?

  Maybe, maybe.

• 5:22Jordi Hays?

  The wing had a post.

• 5:23John Coogan?

  It could be a conspiracy where someone went to the presentation, took a video of the plane without the post, took that video, loaded it into After Effects, Cinema 4D, Houdini, an advanced 3D modeling software, modeled a post, composited that into the video, and then uploaded the final product after blending it in perfectly.

• 5:40Jordi Hays?

  We got eyewitness reports. Zach Debo says, "Trevor is like the kid in school who always tries, studies all the time, and just never passes the test." And Trevor says, "Except I did and built the first..." He did pass the test? "Except I did and built the first ever production hydrogen and better electric semi-truck from the ground up." That went from idea to priloduction five years before Tesla.

• 6:04John Coogan?

  Oh, yeah, the priloduction. That is another elite misspelling.

• 6:08Jordi Hays?

  "Priloduction five years before Tesla. Built six companies, three successful and three not. Broke the world's speed record for light jets as a pilot. That's sick."

• 6:16John Coogan?

  That, that's...

• 6:17Jordi Hays?

  Can we fact-check that?

• 6:18John Coogan?

  We gotta fact-check that, but if that's true.

• 6:20Jordi Hays?

  "And launched the most advanced light jet in the world. Incredible history and achievements. What have you done?" And Zach just replies, "Your chop, dunk." Which I thought was a little funny and a little rude. Trevor can come on the show, but I really think that he should spend time with Nathan Fielder.

• 6:37John Coogan?

  Oh, yes, yes.

• 6:38Jordi Hays?

  It needs to be coming to you.

• 6:39John Coogan?

  You can fly anything because Nathan's a pilot. Nathan can fly it.

• 6:42Jordi Hays?

  That's literally the perfect...

• 6:43John Coogan?

  It's the perfect, you can see everything too. Oh, hopefully.

• 6:47Jordi Hays?

  Though Trevor, you're welcome on the show, but...

• 6:49John Coogan?

  But we do have to live with you for two weeks before you come on the show.

• 6:51Speaker 02

  So, for the record-setting flight, I think he was, he was on board.

• 6:55John Coogan?

  Oh.

• 6:56Speaker 02

  He was not the pilot.

• 6:57John Coogan?

  Wait, what? He said he's the pilot.

• 6:59Jordi Hays?

  Dude, this guy is constantly...

• 7:01John Coogan?

  That's a little fib.

• 7:03Jordi Hays?

  I'm not gonna say he's lying, but he's, he's veering towards fibbing at least on a couple of occasions, just in this one Instagram thread.

• 7:10John Coogan?

  Stretching the truth a little bit. I want to see him behind the sticks.

• 7:14Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, stretching the, stretching the truth twice.

• 7:17John Coogan?

  How much can you actually, how much can you actually push a plane?

• 7:20Jordi Hays?

  A single comment section.

• 7:20John Coogan?

  When you're the pilot? Can you, can you just like floor it and go a little bit faster than you should? Is that an option? Can you go up high and then go down and put the engines on max and just like... It's dangerous, but you can actually break the speed of sound in a Gulfstream if you try, if you're risk on. Is that possible?

• 7:37Jordi Hays?

  No idea.

• 7:38John Coogan?

  We'll find out because we're gonna make Tyler do it. Meta is introducing new Class C stock. The plan is to distribute one Class C share for every existing A or B share at the start of the next year. So, it's basically a two-for-one stock split. It's not a fundraising opportunity, doesn't make Zuckerberg richer, and it doesn't dilute anyone's ownership percentage, but it does have a bunch of interesting knock-on effects. And basically, there's two wildly different narratives. I sent you both of these posts and I was like... It's the same story, but The New York Times and Semaphore have completely different rationales for what's going on. So, I wanted to get to the bottom of it. So, this is not the first time they proposed this Class C stock. It happened in 2016. Meta, which was then called Facebook, of course, proposed creating non-voting Class C shares.

• 8:23John Coogan?

  The reasoning back then was that Mark Zuckerberg said, "Hey, I'm doing the Chan Zuckerberg initiative. I'm giving away a lot of my money. I'm doing a lot of philanthropy. I want to do both. I want to be able to run Meta as the sole decision-maker with the super-voting stock and be able to not be fireable and be able to have control over the company that I founded, and I want the super-voting. But I also want to be able to sell down my economic position or donate it to Chan Zuckerberg. They can sell it to fund philanthropic initiatives, build hospitals, do a bunch of great stuff." And so...

• 8:57John Coogan?

  He tried to do this, actually got challenged by shareholders. There was a Delaware trial that was scheduled, but Facebook withdrew the proposal in September of 2017 before that trial. And after the trial, Zuck was like, I don't even need to sell because my stock's ripping. He actually said this, he said, the, the share price appreciation in Meta has allowed me to, to fund everything with a Chan Zuckerberg initiative, which is probably true because at a certain point, you're just like, oh, I have to deploy $50 billion in nonprofits. Like, there's only so many projects you can do before stuff gets unwieldy. And so he was probably in a pretty good place, but it was still an interesting motivation and, and, and didn't go through.

• 9:39John Coogan?

  Then, so the, the, the goal, the overarching goal hasn't really changed in the last decade. The goal is to allow Zuckerberg to sell or donate or pay taxes with the economic portion of his Meta stake without losing control over the company that he founded two decades ago. So in intervening years, things have come up, tax bills, philanthropic opportunities, AI build outs, and Zuck needs to manage his control against these issues as they arise. And so the NYT tells the story as basically entirely tax related, which is interesting because there's obviously a lot of different things going on. So the New York Times said, Mr. Zuckerberg has been negotiated with Meta, with Meta's board since July. Over dinner with board members on September 9th, he effectively gave them an ultimatum.

• 10:23John Coogan?

  If a deal wasn't struck, he would sell his home in Palo Alto and the listing would be public. And so I assume what he was doing here was like all the other Meta board members have huge homes in Palo Alto, and if he sells his, it's going to tank their real estate prices. So he's saying, I'm, I'm gonna, I'm

• 10:38Jordi Hays?

  I'll do it.

• 10:38John Coogan?

  I'll do it.

• 10:39Jordi Hays?

  I'll do it.

• 10:40John Coogan?

  I assume that, that, that, that was the, that was the veiled threat.

• 10:43Jordi Hays?

  Do you think he's trying to have his cake and eat it too?

• 10:45John Coogan?

  I think he is, actually. I think that's exactly what's happening.

• 10:49Jordi Hays?

  I, I think this might serve multiple purposes.

• 10:52John Coogan?

  Yes, but the market will probably say, yeah, go ahead, have some cake, eat it too. I, I, I don't think they'll, I don't think they'll care because for a long time, you bought Meta Class A shares. So he has Class B, which have 10 voting, 10 votes per share. You bought Class A shares, which have one vote per share. Now you're going to get Class C that has zero votes per share. Never mattered because you were never going to get more than 50%. The, the, the votes never really, like, they never really sold meaningful voting stock. And so when Meta goes to the market, investors just say, what is the economic opportunity? What is the economic return? And so in theory, you, you can go to the market with something that's preferred, plus

• 11:37John Coogan?

  a board seat. We do this all the time in Silicon Valley. We say, yeah, we're selling 20% of the company. You get a board seat, you get information rights, you get pro rata, you get a million things. It's, it's so much value and we're only going to charge you $100 million for that or whatever a startup's selling for. Meta will do the same thing. Sure, the shares might be slightly less valuable because they have zero votes instead of one vote. Realistically, buyers of this are only interested in the financials. They don't care about the votes. So it doesn't really matter.

• 12:04Jordi Hays?

  So what's your takeaway? You think he wants to scratch two itches at once?

• 12:09John Coogan?

  Yeah, I mean, he, I, I, I do think he cares about the billionaire tax and I do think that it's completely rational to get out of California before it hits. And I'm surprised that this is even a discussion. I thought that the reason he bought that Florida home was that he was going to claim residency outside of California as of 2026. It seems like this was mostly going over throughout the year, but if the tax passed, it would be retroactive. He would still be on the hook for it, but at least he could challenge it in court. But it's funny because it's

• 12:35Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, it would be the

• 12:36John Coogan?

  Bad when

• 12:37Jordi Hays?

  It would be litigated and then during that time he would leave and so that you would have this like worst case scenario, that one time 5%.

• 12:45John Coogan?

  But the interesting thing is that like the Google co-founders have done the exact same thing. They've done a stock split and they've maintained control, voting control while relocating to Florida, avoiding the billionaire tax potentially. But no one really cares because Sundar's the face of the company. The interesting thing is like the board, the, the way the New York Times frames is like the board wanted Zuck not to sell his Palo Alto home because it would be a negative signal to the employees. Not the fake reason I was joking about.

• 13:15Jordi Hays?

  No, no, no, no. I'm just laughing at Trey. He wants both birds in the bush to be in his

• 13:23John Coogan?

  Yes. But, but as, let's say you're a board member. Do you care if Mark Zuckerberg can't spend more than 180 days a year in the headquarters where all the researchers are, where, where they're building MSL, where they're, you know, building Muse? Does he need to be onsite?

• 13:42Jordi Hays?

  I think, I think he has to just want to be. Like he is, he's the only, not the only, one of a very, very small group of people running a company at that scale that is like truly in founder mode.

• 13:54John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 13:54Jordi Hays?

  No founder, no elite founder that I've ever met says, yeah, I love working remotely. I love being away from my team for half the year.

• 14:02John Coogan?

  And he probably travels a ton.

• 14:03Jordi Hays?

  So it's much more like the board is probably like, yeah, kind of do whatever you want.

• 14:09John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 14:09Jordi Hays?

  Like live wherever you want, but you can imagine he's the one being like, I want to be in the office as many days as possible with the team.

• 14:17John Coogan?

  That was not the NYT report. The NYT report was that he wants to avoid getting diluted past 50%, losing control of the company because he has to spend 186 days a year in Florida and can't be onsite in Menlo that often and would have to be more remote. And he's like, look, if it's between being in the arena, in the, in the Menlo office a ton and losing control because of this tax, I'm choosing, I'm choosing Florida.

• 14:46Jordi Hays?

  305.

• 14:46John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 14:47Jordi Hays?

  Mr. Worldwide.

• 14:48John Coogan?

  He's being Mr. Worldwide potentially. That was at least the, that was at least the debate, the way it was put to the board. And now it's a non-issue because they are going to issue the Class C stock. So if, if, if he does get hit with a 5% tax, he'll sell the economic stake, not the controlling stake, and he'll be able to stay in TBD labs in, in the, in the building. I don't know why you're laughing, but it's interesting because both of these, both of these rationales are completely justifiable from like the PT lens of framing, which is like, of course, leave California if they're going to tax you and you can just go to Florida. And then also like, of course, issue a bunch of equity if you have a really, if there's a new technology that you can actually invest against.

• 15:28Jordi Hays?

  Make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.

• 15:29John Coogan?

  Yes, Jordy.

• 15:33John Coogan?

  Yes, without issuing some new equity. But this is the critique of Google. They have $100 billion in cash. They don't, they don't spend it. They're just returning to investors. The, they are stagnated, they're out of ideas. Now we're in the era of, there's tons of new ideas, there's tons of new, new, new ways to deploy capital at a high rate of return. Go and invest. There's a debate over Meta's ROI on AI capex. But like, at least the company is thinking like, let's go big. Let's not be the stagnation company and let's not just buy back our stock and pay out cash to shareholders. Let's go pursue the next great thing. Let's go try and do something bold. And so both of these stories are framed, at least a lot of people are, oh, it's bad.

• 16:15John Coogan?

  But I see them both as like, yeah, totally rational and very good for a leader to be doing that. You know who's got a, download Figma, set up an account? Anyone with an iPhone app who wants it to run on the iPhone Duo. You've seen these screenshots of all the apps that are not optimized for the Duo yet. The YouTube app is looking kind of rough. They, they did stretch out the screen, but it still has this bar, this black bar on the right side. It's a new design challenge.

• 16:43Jordi Hays?

  So

• 16:44John Coogan?

  Very doable to solve, but yeah.

• 16:47Jordi Hays?

  As Apple?

• 16:48John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 16:48Jordi Hays?

  How do you release a device without having?

• 16:51John Coogan?

  Especially in the era of, of AI agents.

• 16:53Jordi Hays?

  All, no, not even that.

• 16:55John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 16:55Jordi Hays?

  You're launching this device, it's the biggest update to the iPhone since the iPhone got lighter, faster, stronger, blah, blah, blah.

• 17:03John Coogan?

  Yeah, it actually is new.

• 17:04Jordi Hays?

  It actually is the biggest update to the iPhone in, since the original iPhone.

• 17:08John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 17:09Jordi Hays?

  Right?

• 17:09John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 17:10Jordi Hays?

  And you don't bother to make sure that YouTube and Instagram and Spotify have like amazing

• 17:17John Coogan?

  Do you think it's the opposite? Because what happened with the Apple Vision Pro was, uh, Apple said, we have this amazing new VR device. Developers are going to be able to build apps for it. There's a, there's a developer program where you can get the software a little bit early, optimize things. And basically every tech company was like, no, like we are not jumping on your new ecosystem. Go kick rocks because they were like, you're going to take 30%. We don't want to do you the favor. You're going to have to suffer.

• 17:45Jordi Hays?

  Completely different.

• 17:46John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 17:47Jordi Hays?

  Just an extension of the iPhone.

• 17:49John Coogan?

  Yeah, no, I agree.

• 17:50Jordi Hays?

  Update to the iPhone, the most popular consumer, the, the, the number one hit product in the history of consumer hit products.

• 17:57John Coogan?

  So why do you think it happened? Do you think that, do you think that the developers of the YouTube iOS team didn't get devices early enough or they didn't get software previews?

• 18:05Jordi Hays?

  Germinator said that people had had access to the device for about a month.

• 18:08John Coogan?

  The device and

• 18:09Jordi Hays?

  If you're a big developer, so, so

• 18:11John Coogan?

  And maybe an emulator too?

• 18:12Jordi Hays?

  It's like, on one hand, on one hand, it's the fault of, of the big companies. But on the other hand, I think Apple has to like take the responsibility for it because it's your product that you're selling to customers and they're having a bad experience.

• 18:24John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 18:25Jordi Hays?

  So I think it comes down, the buck stops with Apple, but overall it's just like such Embarrassing launch for Apple. People have even been poking at the, the like iOS, like issues with the actual.

• 18:40John Coogan?

  The actual software.

• 18:41Jordi Hays?

  Like native.

• 18:42John Coogan?

  Native software is not optimized yet.

• 18:44Jordi Hays?

  Is not great. Like, you know, you'll have a, if you're running a timer with a certain angle, you can only see one of the numbers.

• 18:50John Coogan?

  Weird.

• 18:50Jordi Hays?

  So the whole thing was just completely botched and it's super embarrassing because now a billion people have seen like, hey, if you buy the iPhone Duo, it's going to be this like clunky.

• 19:01John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 19:01Jordi Hays?

  Experience and all this stuff will get fixed in the next couple of weeks, but massive unforced error.

• 19:08John Coogan?

  We have a take here from, uh.

• 19:10Jordi Hays?

  Like, I don't even think this doesn't, what it comes down to, it doesn't reflect badly on like Spotify.

• 19:15John Coogan?

  Okay. I thought Spotify was the one that was optimized correctly.

• 19:19Jordi Hays?

  Maybe.

• 19:19John Coogan?

  I thought Spotify looked good, but yes.

• 19:21Jordi Hays?

  One of them looks bad.

• 19:22John Coogan?

  People are, people are.

• 19:23Jordi Hays?

  It doesn't look that bad for all the different app.

• 19:25John Coogan?

  And they're also dunking on Apple. Like, uh, this is from Tech Droider, which I assume is an Android publication. So they're bound to take a victory lap here, but they say, uh, Apple literally mocked other foldables at its launch event, saying vertical scrolling feels compromised and watching movies means dealing with oversized black bars that make the screen much smaller. Now look at Apple doing the same thing. And suddenly Apple fans and some influencers are defending it. LMAO, the hypocrisy is unreal. Uh, but I mean, it is a good point, like, uh, to release something that drops black bars on, uh, on day one is, uh, is a rough, rough.

• 20:02Jordi Hays?

  Here's the one.

• 20:03John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 20:04Jordi Hays?

  That I was referencing.

• 20:06John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 20:06Jordi Hays?

  This is Apple software call quality in 2026. This is supposed to be a 15 minute timer.

• 20:12John Coogan?

  Oh, and it's not rendering properly. That's very odd.

• 20:15Jordi Hays?

  So again, it's like.

• 20:16John Coogan?

  Well, is it scrolling? Oh, I guess even if it's scrolling, that's like a weird feature.

• 20:21Jordi Hays?

  But yeah.

• 20:21John Coogan?

  I should just do 15M instead of 15min.

• 20:24Jordi Hays?

  Apple's just better than this.

• 20:26John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 20:26Jordi Hays?

  I'm not gonna, you know, I don't think it's on the new.

• 20:30John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 20:30Jordi Hays?

  See.

• 20:30John Coogan?

  I mean, uh, the, the, the Grubinator, John Gruber over at Daring Fireball said that

• 20:36Jordi Hays?

  The Gruberinator, you mean?

• 20:38John Coogan?

  What? The Gruber? No, it's the Grubinator. The Germinator and the Grubinator.

• 20:43Jordi Hays?

  Grubinator.

• 20:43John Coogan?

  The Grubinator was saying that, uh, it feels like he's gotten used to an extraordinary, he's gotten to use an extraordinarily polished prototype, but not a finished product that he'd want to buy and carry. Uh, which is not a good review.

• 20:58Jordi Hays?

  Just to go back to back with the Vision Pro and the Duo getting just appalling reviews.

• 21:08Jordi Hays?

  No, getting the, getting the, it's a good prototype, right?

• 21:12John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 21:12Jordi Hays?

  Getting the, it's a good prototype review is just like not Apple's standard, right?

• 21:17John Coogan?

  I don't know. Patrick here seems to be having fun. He says he's perfected the one-handed flip and I think this might, oh, that's a good look. Pull this video up.

• 21:25Jordi Hays?

  Apple is no longer better than this. They should be, but they're not. My disappointment is immeasurable.

• 21:30John Coogan?

  Yeah, but, but watch Patrick flip this thing around. Tell me this isn't fun. This is great. Look, okay, flips it around, flips it with one hand, boom, slaps it open. That's fun. That's great. You want to do that? Yeah. Click. That's going to be satisfying. It's a fidget spinner. It's got the same dynamic as a fidget spinner. This is going to be a hit. Doesn't matter. The software doesn't need to run. Just, just brick it. Give me something just to play with. Put just, brick it and just put one, one page of text on there that I can just read my mantra and then that's good enough. I don't know. Uh, unbelievable. The iPhone Duo's display has been hiding a shocking secret. Somebody finally dale, dared to peel off the matte film covering the iPhone Duo's display. What they discovered

• 22:14John Coogan?

  is something with the film. It looks surprisingly uneven.

• 22:17Jordi Hays?

  Way too dramatic.

• 22:17John Coogan?

  Who cares? Don't pull, don't pull the, don't pull the matte film off.

• 22:21Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, the matte.

• 22:22John Coogan?

  I, I, I ripped the product apart and it didn't work as expected. That makes no sense. Anyway, um, yeah, people are, you know, the polish is not quite there. Uh, Joanna Stern's been testing the product. Uh, she's folded it. Oh, she built the device or had a, had a friend build a device that would fold it 32,000 times over and over and over again. And it seemed like it, it held up pretty well. So I don't know. Take him doesn't like it though. He says, half baked. Read this review before ordering. The initial enthusiasm on the neat opening duo animation has faded hard, it may, but all but disappear after the first wave of Apple fan, early adopters. This is a very bad iPhone experience. I don't

• 23:04John Coogan?

  know. I think the software gets patched pretty quickly. These, the, these things, uh, these things move pretty quickly and I feel like they should move very quickly in the age of AI coding. Like if you're a small app developer and you're like, ah, like, yeah, 1% of my audience is using the iPhone Duo. Do I really want to open up Xcode and sit there and rewrite all the views and get an Objective C or Swift and, and, and actually hammer out of, uh, you know, a layout that looks good. If you can point an AI agent at this and get it to get you 90% of the way there, maybe you'll do it a little bit faster. So I would expect some acceleration towards the software being good and functional very quickly. Um, but it does look like after a bunch of folds, you can see the crease a little bit more.

• 23:48John Coogan?

  I don't think people really care. I don't know. The crease doesn't seem like that big of a deal. Anyway, uh, Ben Thompson has, I think, yet to review the iPhone Duo. I'm sure he'll discuss it. He's talked about it a little bit, but he's also presented by Stripe now. That's huge news. I think we put up a card for it. Uh, very, very great to see the techery partnering with a fintech company. Great partnership because, uh, Stripe is obviously a very successful company, but not the, the hottest, most dramatic, oh, you gotta track earnings. Who knows? Maybe they'll never IPO. So Ben will never be called upon to cover Stripe earnings because they will never be reporting public numbers to be analyzed. Uh, but also, uh, a long lineage of working with Ben because he built his entire business

• 24:33John Coogan?

  on Stripe. And so, uh, very, very excited to see that, uh, and excited to, to hear some ads in through techery. Finally, this has been our mission.

• 24:42Jordi Hays?

  This is our moment.

• 24:42John Coogan?

  We, the first episode.

• 24:44Jordi Hays?

  As much as this has been Stripe's moment, it's also our moment.

• 24:47John Coogan?

  Yeah, it really is. You gotta pat ourselves on the back here. Take a little victory lap because, uh, when we started the show, we said, uh, our goal was to get every tech podcast to have advertising and we're pretty close to done.

• 24:58Jordi Hays?

  One step closer.

• 24:59John Coogan?

  Pretty, pretty close to done. I don't know. Is there anyone that's missing? I think Tyler Cowen, Conversations with Tyler, although Tyler Cowen, Conversations with Tyler, fantastic show. A little low on the ad load personally. I don't think I've heard an ad in there ever. Occasionally promote live shows and, uh, specific events that are happening. I don't really count those. I want money in his pocket for those ad reads. Um, but he's, he's maybe moving over, it feels like he's moving over to the New York Times hosting, uh, Ross Douthat's old show, Interesting Times with Tyler Cowen now. New York Times, that's an advertising monster. So, uh, that's some good news in the world of advertising. You're going to be able to buy ads on a Tyler Cowen product for the first time. You can buy ads on a Ben

• 25:42John Coogan?

  Thompson product. You can buy ads on All In product. Of course, TBPN product. We got plenty of ad space. Yeah. Lock in. Um, anyway, uh, anything else that we want to talk about?

• 25:52Jordi Hays?

  Let's end here.

• 25:53John Coogan?

  There were a couple of things going on.

• 25:54Jordi Hays?

  Let's end here.

• 25:55John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 25:57Jordi Hays?

  This is kind of the dream daily for.

• 26:01John Coogan?

  This is the, this is Eliezer Yudkowsky's car. We finally saw it. This is what he's doing.

• 26:07Jordi Hays?

  Can we get some sound? Cause this thing sounds amazing.

• 26:09John Coogan?

  Please, someone please be my ops. Is this real or is this AI? I can't even tell.

• 26:13Jordi Hays?

  Oh, this guy I think actually builds a bunch of insane vehicles. We gotta get him on the show immediately.

• 26:19John Coogan?

  Really, really cool. Mad Max C7.

• 26:26Jordi Hays?

  Look at that.

• 26:27John Coogan?

  I like the chains on the side. That's a really nice touch.

• 26:30Jordi Hays?

  Is this like a moving truck or not a moving truck or like a, an old, um.

• 26:34John Coogan?

  Looks like an old ambulance or something. Yeah. Yeah. Dump truck or something, but.

• 26:38Jordi Hays?

  But this is the car of the future, everyone. This is going to be how you get to.

• 26:42John Coogan?

  When the grid goes down, this is what you're going to want to be driving. Get this vehicle, lock it in, get this, get this, uh, get this going. Uh, anyway.

• 26:55Jordi Hays?

  Anyways.

• 26:55John Coogan?

  Anything else you want to talk about today?

• 26:57Jordi Hays?

  Oh, one more, one product suggestion for Lucy.

• 27:02John Coogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 27:02Jordi Hays?

  Wanted you to build. I wanted you guys to make this.

• 27:05John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 27:05Jordi Hays?

  The gum watch.

• 27:06John Coogan?

  Oh, this is good. I hadn't thought about this.

• 27:09Jordi Hays?

  This is a hitter.

• 27:10John Coogan?

  The gum watch. This is a real, this is a real product.

• 27:14Jordi Hays?

  Called Crazy Planet.

• 27:15John Coogan?

  This would be a good drop from them. I, I'm going to send this over to the team. Crazy Planet. I'm surprised. I've seen a lot of like pouch holders, different, different ways to hold your, your nicotine pouches, your nicotine gum, but, uh, in the watch is.

• 27:30Jordi Hays?

  Have it on the wrist. It's a hitter.

• 27:31John Coogan?

  Rest is good. I think, I think you, that'd be a hit with you.

• 27:35Jordi Hays?

  Uh, and the final post of the day, just put the lightning in the bottle, bro.

• 27:39John Coogan?

  Just do it. Stop making excuses.

• 27:41Jordi Hays?

  Just put the fries in the bag and then put the lightning in the bottle.

• 27:44John Coogan?

  You caught lightning in the bottle. When you've caught lightning in the bottle, it's time to, time to double down, maximize, maximize the, the ROI on whatever you did that was described as lightning in a bottle. It's rare. So when it hits, you gotta go, you gotta burn all the, all the other ships and focus. It's a good lesson. Good lesson. Anyway.

• 28:04Jordi Hays?

  That's right.

• 28:04John Coogan?

  Leave us five stars on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Tyler got that wildly wrong yesterday. He said, follow us on Apple Podcasts. We don't ask for follows around here. We ask for five star reviews. If you're thinking this is a four star show, don't tell us. Keep it to yourself.

• 28:19Jordi Hays?

  Keep it to yourself, please.

• 28:19John Coogan?

  Keep it to yourself. Also sign up for our newsletter at tbpn.com. Don't just sign up for our newsletter. We don't leave the viewer to figure out where to sign up. We tell them exactly where to sign up. It's on tbpn.com. And I also remind the viewer that we will be live the next day. We will see you Friday at 11am Pacific. So tune in then. And thank you.

• 28:41Jordi Hays?

  Can't wait.

• 28:41John Coogan?

  For watching us today. Goodbye.

• 28:43Jordi Hays?

  We love you.