Cybersecurity Red Alert, SpaceX Earnings, OpenAI Strikes Google Deal | Diet TBPN

Diet TBPN delivers the best of today’s TBPN episode in 30 minutes. TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with each episode posted to podcast platforms right after. Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” the show has recently featured Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella. TBPN is made possible by: Ramp - https://ramp.com Public - https://public.com Cisco - https://www.cisco.com Console - https://www.console.com CrowdStrike - https://www.crowdstrike.com Figma - https://www.figma.com MongoDB - https://www.mongodb.com NYSE - https://www.nyse.com Railway - https://railway.com Shopify - https://www.shopify.com/ Follow TBPN: https://TBPN.com https://x.com/tbpn https://open.spotify.com/show/2L6WMqY3GUPCGBD0dX6p00?si=674252d53acf4231 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/technology-brothers/id1772360235 https://www.youtube.com/@TBPNLive

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Jordi Hays?

  We got bad news for you, and then we have good news. The bad news is John is not here with us today. He is under the weather.

• 0:08Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 0:08Jordi Hays?

  Keep him in your thoughts and prayers. We've never actually taken sick days, ever. Normally, when we're sick, we just, we just keep going. But John is really down and out, and we feel like a ship without a sail.

• 0:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:25Jordi Hays?

  A lighthouse without a light, and we miss him dearly, but the show must go on. We have a great show.

• 0:32Speaker 01

  I got big shoes to fill, literally.

• 0:33Jordi Hays?

  Huge shoes to fill. John is wearing an entire, all of John's clothing. He put his clothes on. Trying to keep it together. But funny enough, the suit doesn't actually look as comical as one might think. I was hoping that it would look even more exaggerated, but it kind of just looks like a normal suit.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  Nathan Fielder, yeah.

• 0:53Jordi Hays?

  Not a workout-related illness this time, just flu season. So stay safe out there. But big day today in technology. Of course, all the new vulnerabilities that we're finding out about, which are unfortunate. Was texting friends and family this morning, trying to make sure that everyone outside of X is, is well aware. But we have Nikesh Aurora coming on in just 30 minutes from Palo Alto Networks.

• 1:20Speaker 01

  He's gonna break it down.

• 1:21Jordi Hays?

  Gonna break it down for us. So yeah, we'll, we'll, we'll cover a few things, but wait to get into a lot of it with him. And then we have Aiden Smith from Flapping Airplanes coming on. They have a new $800 million round.

• 1:33Speaker 01

  And before I forget, let me tell you about Ramp. Time is money, save both. Easy to use corporate cards, bill payments, accounting, and a whole lot more.

• 1:41Jordi Hays?

  You nailed it. You just missed the button.

• 1:43Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:44Jordi Hays?

  But we're working through it.

• 1:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're having some technical, there it is, there it is. Oh, okay, it's good. We're having some difficulties here.

• 1:50Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 1:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll figure it out as the show goes on.

• 1:52Jordi Hays?

  John makes it look so easy.

• 1:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean.

• 1:54Jordi Hays?

  Makes it look so easy, but it's an art form, right?

• 1:56Speaker 01

  It truly is, yeah.

• 1:57Jordi Hays?

  Truly is.

• 1:58Speaker 01

  You can't really, some of the stuff, you can't even really be taught it. It's just kind of natural, I think.

• 2:01Jordi Hays?

  Totally. You're born with it.

• 2:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03Jordi Hays?

  Well, let's pull up this video of John shortly before coming down with an illness.

• 2:14Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 2:15Jordi Hays?

  Wow. Season got started and he wasted no time clip farming.

• 2:28Speaker 01

  Majestic.

• 2:29Jordi Hays?

  I hope he's watching this. I think he's sleeping. Anyways, let's, let's go into PHP land. Tyler, you want to kick it off?

• 2:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, so PHP, obviously, like everyone knows, right, as you do, you know.

• 2:44Jordi Hays?

  Sorry.

• 2:46Speaker 01

  So something like 70% of all websites run on PHP. And basically, there's this big vulnerability that was found in August, and now it's kind of coming out. There's a patch coming out. It should be, I think it may have just come out. It didn't come out immediately when the actual news of the vulnerability, vulnerability happened, but.

• 3:03Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, so this was discovered with 5.6.

• 3:06Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 3:07Jordi Hays?

  Back in August.

• 3:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:08Jordi Hays?

  And so for the last couple of months, all the different companies involved have been trying to inform as many as people as possible.

• 3:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:15Jordi Hays?

  Trying to make sure that, that a lot of companies can, can get ahead of this before the disclosure. The, the big issue, I mean, my personal point of view is like, you're probably going to be fine using services from public companies, right?

• 3:28Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:28Jordi Hays?

  Companies that would have been, that would have been in the loop over the last couple of months.

• 3:31Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 3:31Jordi Hays?

  The bigger issue is the rest of the internet, websites that people have been.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think there's going to be this, this kind of long tail of people that, you know, maybe are not that online, but they, you know, they're running their own server from their, you know, local business that they've had up for 20 years or something. I think that that's a scenario that like, is maybe a little bit more scary, where you just like, have to really stay, stay up on this stuff.

• 3:51Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, I've been thinking about, like, all the different places that people have input private information, things like social security numbers. I'm thinking like, old, even like, local government websites, right? All these different things. Feels like we're very close to, or effectively, it's unavoidable that a lot of this stuff is going to leak out. So that's the bad news.

• 4:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, we've seen a lot of government websites, like temporarily come down. I think Finland, they had some internet services that, that they like.

• 4:19Jordi Hays?

  Just took offline.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, took offline. Netherlands, France, similar. But hopefully, you know, throughout the day, those will come back up, because it seems like the, that the main patch has, has now come out, so.

• 4:28Jordi Hays?

  So the issue dubbed PHP2Shell represents a class of problems in the way PHP manages a computer's memory. It can be exploited in many ways, some requiring just a few seconds, by hackers who would use it to run unauthorized software on any unpatched web server. It is the most severe security issue that PHP has faced in more than a decade. According to Volker Duusch, a security engineer with a nonprofit foundation that manages the PHP project, he likened it to Heartbleed, a similarly widespread vulnerability that forced a global race to protect hundreds of thousands of servers more than a decade ago. When security patches are released, it marks the starting shot in a race between defenders and hackers. Defenders have to test and install the software patches while hackers study the patches as

• 5:11Jordi Hays?

  a guide to find new vulnerabilities, looking to see what has changed and then devising ways of attacking those areas. But today's AI tools can do this work much quicker than any human, potentially making the process more risky, security experts say. Some dude on Twitter could take the patches and run AI against it and post some exploit script, said Ty, the chief executive of Callith, the security company that first discovered the issue. All hell will break loose.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  Naughty, naughty.

• 5:39Jordi Hays?

  The big bug. Ryan Austin, a researcher at Callith, uncovered the flaws with help from GPT-5.6, Seoul, one of OpenAI's most advanced models, from a couple of months ago. During an audit of PHP source code in August, OpenAI funded that and other audits, part of an effort by AI companies to help open source projects address software vulnerabilities now being uncovered by AI systems. The class of bugs had been hiding in PHP source code for years. A security researcher had flagged it as a problem area decades earlier, but the flaw had been considered too difficult to exploit and was largely forgotten. AI found a way. Austin figured out how to control the code that was running in the computer's memory with as few, with as few as a few dozen requests to a server running PHP.

• 6:22Jordi Hays?

  On smaller system, the hack takes just seconds. A more complex one, it can take hours. On August 11th, Deng called PHP's leadership, "There's a serious issue here," he said. "I had this moment of, oh God, what are we doing now?" Duusch said, "How do I communicate this?" And then you calm down, you let the adrenaline flow through, and you get to fixing. Soon, an informal working group had formed among security researchers and software engineers. They collaborated with software distributors and security companies, figuring out ways to patch PHP2Shell and prevent it from being exploited. Researchers from Google's Wiz cybersecurity team soon reached out with new exploits, which they had discovered independent of Callith. There were findings from OpenAI's research team, too.

• 7:05Jordi Hays?

  AI is enabling well-meaning security researchers to find thousands of software bugs, overwhelming projects like PHP with a flood of issues that need patching. But PHP2Shell was viewed as a priority, and AI's proficiency at hacking prompted worries that criminals could exploit PHP2Shell. We need to figure out how to, we need a, like, a nickname for that. It's getting a little long.

• 7:27Speaker 01

  I mean, Heartbleed, that other.

• 7:29Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, that, that name goes hard.

• 7:31Speaker 01

  PHP2Shell doesn't sound very scary.

• 7:33Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, it just sounds like some mumbo jumbo. Keeping the secret, PHP2Shell is the most severe AI vulnerability that was ever found, and one that was likely too complex to have been discovered without AI, said Ami Lutwak, Wiz's co-founder. Deng and the other researchers kept its existence a closely guarded secret while they worked on fixes for fear that an AI-aided hacker might find and exploit it before they were done. Really crazy that this was kept, like, a relative secret for this.

• 8:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, actually, I, I think the original release of this was supposed to be tomorrow, and then details started to leak, I think, a, a day or two ago.

• 8:07Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, so they pushed it out.

• 8:08Speaker 01

  And so actually, like, right at the very end, it started to leak. But yeah, for, while they were working on it, it is, it's great that they were able, that they were able to kind of hold on to this.

• 8:15Jordi Hays?

  The patching effort was massive. There are close to 200 files being fixed, and developers wrote over 10,000 lines of code during the process. Should have called Gary Tan. He could have ripped that 10,000.

• 8:25Speaker 01

  Gstat could have done that in seconds.

• 8:27Jordi Hays?

  In a day.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  I mean, yeah.

• 8:29Jordi Hays?

  Maybe hours. Eventually, a patch was set October 22nd. Then the inevitable happened. News of the patch leaked out Tuesday in a post in Hacker News. Fitting for it to go out on a site called Hacker News.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  Greg Brockman had a good post about this. What, what, what an interesting kind of tidbit that people are pointing out, I can read it here. "As vulnerability discovery ramps, we will need new defense solutions, potentially including authorized defenders such as government, scanning the internet for vulnerable hosts, and either notifying, or in extreme cases, patching those systems remotely." Which is very interesting. I mean, you can imagine some kind of service that basically, they just, whenever anything happens, they are like, have some sort of, you know, write access into your systems and can update that.

• 9:13Jordi Hays?

  Yep. Prime Minister posted, "We have an urgent request for everyone to take action regarding PHP, which is used on many websites. The PHP security team has issued a warning about two critical vulnerabilities. Please check if you have publicly available websites that use PHP and prepare to apply the fix patch that will be released tonight at 11:00 PM Japan time. It is difficult to apply the fix promptly. Temporarily suspending websites and similar measures can be considered an effective way to reduce risk." And LevelsIO reached out to a friend. He said, "I notified a friend working at a big tech company about the PHP vulnerability as their entire infrastructure runs on PHP. He answered, 'Thanks, I'll try to patch it in a few days as I'm out of office now.'"

• 9:58Jordi Hays?

  And this is the modern tech company. Imagine the traditional companies running PHP. People won't update fast enough, and the vulnerability will be out in the wild. Once the patch hits, as anyone can reverse engineer it based on the patch. Considering this, there's going to be so many sites hacked and so much user data exposed, I think, so.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, not great.

• 10:17Jordi Hays?

  Wild times.

• 10:18Speaker 01

  Also, I mean, we haven't covered this yet, but there's actually two vulnerabilities. There's a second one from eMudra, which is basically the TLS tip kit, right, you know, that has the little lock on the browser. Some of them had, like, very trivial private keys. I think one of them was literally just number four. And so that, you know, for context, the private keys are supposed to be, I think, hundreds of digits long, these like, you know, numbers, and it's just number four. Not great. It is fascinating, though, that.

• 10:42Jordi Hays?

  But no one would expect number four.

• 10:44Speaker 01

  That's true. I, I, I looked it up. I think that had been like, live for like, a year and a half. And no one, seemingly no one, like, really did anything with it. So maybe a kind of a white pill, actually.

• 10:54Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, no one expects the number four. It's actually the smartest possible thing they could have done.

• 10:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:58Jordi Hays?

  The most secure. OpenAI released a codex skill to help check whether your website is affected. They point your codex at a GitHub repo that was just created, and it will guide you through it. So check that out, or, or use your favorite agent. Moving over to updates on Trevor Milton's new Jet startup.

• 11:21Jordi Hays?

  I don't even know if it should be called a startup just because the company's been around for decades at this point, but a friend of the show Preston Holland was able to actually go to the event. I was quite bearish on this strategy. Trevor Milton's obviously been pardoned. He doesn't have a record anymore. He's free to do and build whatever he wants. I just think the strategy of-

• 11:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, so he did nothing wrong.

• 11:42Jordi Hays?

  I'm not going to say that. Definitely not going to say that. But he is a free man. And again, I think the strategy of going into private aviation where you have super discerning buyers is just not probably a good business strategy.

• 11:55Speaker 01

  I still think you can make some argument where, you know, there's some kind of stigma discount that you can get on the plane because like if other people are worried about buying from him, that's a buying opportunity for me, right? Others are fearful. Buy when others are fearful. So I think this could, you can, there's some argument here. I think it makes sense.

• 12:13Jordi Hays?

  I think that's typically about investing, not relying on a machine for, you know-

• 12:20Speaker 01

  These are investments, you could say, in a way. Right?

• 12:24Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, depends on how much you value your time versus your life. But anyways, Preston got a good picture at the launch. The wings of the plane were propped up by posts.

• 12:36Speaker 01

  So is that, is that normal?

• 12:37Jordi Hays?

  No, maybe this is part of the innovation.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's true.

• 12:41Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, very, I shouldn't say it's a huge surprise, right? You would think that they'd have more confidence that the wings of the demo aircraft would be able to just support themselves, right? Considering they're meant to support the entire plane in the air, but coming from the push the truck down the hill guy, can't say I'm that surprised. The main complaint with the iPhone Duo, people are getting their hands on the iPhone Duo. There's some reviews coming out and there seems to be a lot of complaints. The big one being app optimization. Let's pull up this image. If we can scroll down, you can see how apps

• 13:25Jordi Hays?

  that you might use frequently like Instagram or Google Calendar or Spotify. This looks like a Rivian app. Also, internet speed check. Anyways, not dialed yet. I do think that, I don't think this is necessarily going to be a huge issue. I think this kind of thing will get fixed pretty quickly.

• 13:49Speaker 01

  Are you talking about the big sidebar? That's kind of taken up a lot of the-

• 13:53Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, so it's like, hey, we made a phone whose entire value prop is that it's a bigger screen. And then as of right now, and again, I expect this to get fixed.

• 14:02Speaker 01

  And that's for real estate.

• 14:03Jordi Hays?

  Yeah. The, yeah, the core value prop is not being delivered on yet. Mark Gurman says the iPhone Duo reviews are some of the most brutal I've seen from an Apple product in a long time, Vision Pro aside, but I've been around long enough to remember the iPhone 5, 6 Plus and iPhone X. The app optimization issue is a non-issue and will be resolved in weeks. The one big difference I'd add, the iPhone 5 and iPhone 6 Plus gave developers one week of turnaround time, though they've had a month plus in hands-on development opportunities with the Duo. So I don't know what Google and Instagram and Spotify are doing if they've had the ability to-

• 14:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, they've had a month?

• 14:49Jordi Hays?

  They've had roughly a month. But maybe they're just bearish on the Duo.

• 14:54Speaker 01

  Well, I think for like Instagram or whatever, they probably assume that people are going to be doing kind of, they're going to have the like wider, so you can do kind of dual-wheeled reels. So they're probably optimizing for that.

• 15:05Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, I do want to see what it looks like on Instagram when you have the two screens.

• 15:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so I think these are starting to be delivered on Friday, I believe, the 23rd. So we'll start to get some-

• 15:19Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, but somehow people have them out in the wild now. So-

• 15:21Speaker 01

  Well, this is MPHT review, yeah. I assume that he'd get it early.

• 15:25Jordi Hays?

  Let's pull up this video from MKBHD.

• 15:29Speaker 02

  And it is bad. Photo quality. See that selfie camera? Yeah, that is, that is very first gen. And it is bad. The photo quality is trash. It looks a little better on like a FaceTime call with video than just straight up taking pictures with it. But yeah, Apple clearly has done the math. Like they've assumed people won't use this camera very much and they've accepted the trade-off of image quality versus having this big dramatic uninterrupted inner display. We'll see. See that selfie camera?

• 15:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's a reasonable trade-off.

• 16:01Jordi Hays?

  And the camera's effectively invisible?

• 16:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:04Jordi Hays?

  Which is extremely impressive.

• 16:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I'm, this makes me more bullish on this.

• 16:09Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, it seems like a pretty good experience.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. I did not get one, but-

• 16:15Jordi Hays?

  Do you want to?

• 16:16Speaker 01

  I could imagine other people enjoying it.

• 16:17Jordi Hays?

  You're not going to get one?

• 16:19Speaker 01

  I could-

• 16:21Jordi Hays?

  Would you get one if we needed somebody on the team?

• 16:23Speaker 01

  I could, yeah.

• 16:24Jordi Hays?

  To make a sacrifice and do it?

• 16:27Speaker 01

  Sacrifice? I would, I would sacrifice myself.

• 16:31Jordi Hays?

  Because you're going to have a massive aura loss.

• 16:32Speaker 01

  That's true, yeah.

• 16:34Jordi Hays?

  So you need to be prepared for that.

• 16:35Speaker 01

  You can't be seen pulling this thing out.

• 16:36Jordi Hays?

  Cracking it open. I mean, John really does need to do it. He's the newspaper guy.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:42Jordi Hays?

  I think he's got to do it. So I don't think you should have to. It's time to talk about SpaceX SI Tesla. SpaceX had their Q3 earnings call yesterday. It is one of the cooler earnings call experiences, even like the countdown, like the imagery that they have just show why the company ultimately trades in a somewhat detached way from business fundamentals. But they talk about the progress that they've made over the last quarter with Starship, specifically. The stat that stood out is that one Starship that was not even

• 17:26Jordi Hays?

  full is launching the equivalent of 10 Falcon 9s worth of Starlink satellites, right? So it just shows, shows how big the payload capacity can be. And, and again, they're just like going as, down the line as fast as possible to get to not just reusability, but rapid reusability. So that's what they're telling people to watch out for in the, over the next quarter. A lot of the call was focused on the terrestrial compute build-out. Elon

• 18:02Jordi Hays?

  compared SpaceX and, and the team there to the, the other sort of like cloud or NeoCloud players as, this is like the New York Yankees playing in the Little League. So not, not mincing words. And yeah, the big numbers that stood out, they're talking about two and a half to three gigawatts online by the end of this year with, and pacing to get 10 online next year. That being said, he did, he did leave possibility for getting to 20 gigawatts

• 18:41Jordi Hays?

  next year. The logic there being like they are building out more, like they're trying to get enough effectively infrastructure in place to support 20 gigawatts even if they don't actually have the power yet. So, and-

• 19:00Speaker 01

  And then, I mean, he kept hinting or vaguely circling around some kind of merger, right? Between Tesla, SpaceX. That's like a lot of the news about right now.

• 19:08Jordi Hays?

  Yeah. Before we get into that, we can talk about, let's pull up this clip of him talking about AI demand.

• 19:17Speaker 03

  Our belief is, is that the value of compute per watt will increase over time, not decrease. And the reason that, for that, I think, I think it should be obvious to people really is that as you improve the, the AI software, as the models get better and better, they're able to, you get more useful intelligence per watt. And the value of that compute is proportionate to the useful intelligence per watt. And that's why you see things like even old computers like H100s renting for more than they rented when they were new.

• 19:59Speaker 03

  And I think that's, that's likely to continue. I think we're going to face a shortage of super intelligence compute. And that shortage is going to remain for a long time. So, so I think the smart move is to, is to do short-term contracts and to, and essentially that, to make, to place the bet on useful, useful intelligence per watt increasing rapidly, which obviously is done. So that's what's happened so far. That's why I posted that sort of video, video meme of the Monty Python cheese shop sketch where the guy goes into

• 20:42Speaker 03

  a cheese shop to get some cheese. And, and they actually have no cheese. And so he goes like, what about this kind of cheese? What about that kind of cheese? And, and they really just don't have any cheese. So we've actually tried to offload some of our employees' compute to-

• 21:00Jordi Hays?

  Trying to explain a meme.

• 21:01Speaker 01

  They've got no cheese.

• 21:02Speaker 03

  ... for training. And we get the cheese shop sketch.

• 21:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, so presumably those short-term contracts talking about are the Anthropic ones, right? And it's interesting that he keeps saying like, short-term contracts. Because I think-

• 21:19Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, people were, people, that's how people have been making the bear case around their compute business is like, okay, like this is a, you know, temporary solution for companies like Anthropic and Google that are compute constrained, but these contracts will roll off and the demand will shift somewhere else. And what he's saying is like, no, this is intentional. We're doing this because we want to basically every year raise prices, raise prices because the expected value of the compute will go up.

• 21:47Speaker 01

  Or, I mean, or at some point, like use that compute internally for, for Grok models, right? This is kind of also like the meta maybe case where like, oh, they'd have this big build-out and like, maybe they're, they're making good use of it now, but at one point people were like, oh, you should just resell it to become NeoCloud.

• 22:03Jordi Hays?

  Yeah. So he, he definitely talks about Grok Bot in the earnings call as well and says he expects most of their compute to be, to go towards Grok Bot eventually. And talks about the growth there. The big line that stood out, which was funny, this was, came at the very end of Elon's segment before he passed the mic to Shotwell. Let's listen to it.

• 22:28Speaker 03

  I mean, in a nutshell, what this implies for SpaceX annual recurring revenue by the end of '27 is somewhere between 500 billion and a trillion.

• 22:46Jordi Hays?

  Let's go.

• 22:46Speaker 01

  I mean.

• 22:47Jordi Hays?

  He literally nods and then.

• 22:51Jordi Hays?

  Oh, it's amazing. Big, big, big numbers.

• 22:57Jordi Hays?

  I guess in this case, it's funny, normally people would say annualized revenue run rate, but he said annual recurring revenue, but in this case, it actually could be. Maybe it's not. Yeah, it is annual recurring revenue if they start continuing to stack these, these like annualized deals. People are saying that Musk just saved the NeoCloud trade. With that line, our belief is that the value of compute per watt will increase over time, not decrease.

• 23:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, this is what like semi analysis has been saying for a long time. Right? The things just can't keep going up.

• 23:32Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 23:34Jordi Hays?

  Brett over at Arc is talking about the merger.

• 23:40Jordi Hays?

  This seems inevitable at this point. Elon's pretty clear that it's going to be up to the shareholders on either side to decide.

• 23:49Jordi Hays?

  He believes it's the right move and again, people, one of the biggest challenges of having SpaceX and Tesla, both as public companies is like, you can't drive all of that investor demand to one place. And so you're trying to balance like supply and demand for both assets. And again, these are like, this is a portfolio of existing products as well as like, but, but the companies, both companies are valued on their future potential. Right?

• 24:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:17Jordi Hays?

  So combining them does make a lot of sense. I can imagine this as, as it's not hard to imagine it as a sort of first $10 trillion company. Brett has a point of view on, on the merger. He says on SpaceX versus Tesla, very crudely, RoboTaxi is a bigger opportunity than Starlink, but orbital compute is a much bigger opportunity than RoboTaxi. And Optimus requires more baking time than orbital compute. And Optimus's success is predicated on access to gobsmacking amounts. Not a lot of people using that word these days. Maybe it's time to bring it back.

• 24:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 24:55Jordi Hays?

  Amounts of super intelligence. The forced usage of super intelligence by our industry has been, been pretty brutal to watch. It's really.

• 25:07Jordi Hays?

  I, I cringe a little bit every time. Elon responds.

• 25:10Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 25:11Jordi Hays?

  It just says, interesting. This is, uh, this is obviously his way of drawing attention to, to things without, without giving them an endorsement in any way. So lawyers.

• 25:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, so many things here make sense, right?

• 25:26Jordi Hays?

  Lawyers hate this one simple trick.

• 25:29Speaker 01

  They don't want you to know this.

• 25:30Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, the big thing is that Elon owns so much more of, you know, SpaceX that he wants SpaceX to have the highest possible valuation and Tesla to have the lowest possible valuation at the time of the merger. What else? Hiro Onada says, I know Elon stocks get totally different treatment, but this is Oracle, September 2025. Huge claims of future revenue, revenue extremely low quality, business about to become recklessly levered. So he's given the bare case here.

• 26:07Jordi Hays?

  Not Elon's first time making huge claims of future revenue. I think the interesting thing is like, even if he's off by five years on, on these sort of revenue targets, like shareholders are still going to do pretty well.

• 26:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:22Jordi Hays?

  But yeah, very, very clear that they will be levering up in a way that no Elon company has before outside of XAI. Matthew Zeitlin says the American capital markets are the eighth wonder of the world. And he's quoting The Economist and it says, in the past year, American markets have digested the largest ever initial public offering SpaceX, equity raised by a public company, Google, or a foreign firm, SK Hynix, private funding round, OpenAI and private debt deal, Broadcom, as well as most of the biggest bond issue in history, Amazon, there was the first $1 trillion exchange traded fund or ETF.

• 27:05Jordi Hays?

  Vanguard, a record breaking cash pile, Berkshire Hathaway and stock buyback program Nvidia, and consummation of the largest ever leveraged buyout EA. The, the other crazy thing about, about a lot of these deals is like, they weren't even the current thing at the time. Like it was the kind of thing where it would be maybe get a, a mention on, on the front page of the journal or just be buried in the business section.

• 27:31Jordi Hays?

  Big news today, somewhat unexpected, OpenAI models are coming to Google Cloud.

• 27:39Jordi Hays?

  To frenemies now, I guess, in many ways. OpenAI and Google strike major AI distribution deal. OpenAI will bring its frontier AI models, including GPT-6, Astro and Codex to Google Cloud in the coming weeks. Enterprise customers will be able to purchase them through Google Cloud Marketplace using existing cloud spending commitments. The agreement follows OpenAI's expansion to AWS after its exclusive Microsoft distribution arrangement ended. In other news, OpenAI acquired Orchestra Bio, a platform that helps biopharma teams coordinate the complex process of drug development.

• 28:21Jordi Hays?

  Rhendra goes to OpenAI, absolutely massive news and super excited for the team over there.

• 28:31Jordi Hays?

  Ken Griffin had some comments yesterday. He said, we're almost certainly in an AI bubble, but that sounds way more bearish than what he was actually saying. He, he, in his comments, he's talking a lot about disruption due to AI, but also said it would be a golden age of entrepreneurship.

• 28:53Speaker 01

  Let's go.

• 28:54Jordi Hays?

  So not all bad. I don't know if this is a serious comment or not, but let's see. Brian Johnson says, I have an AI agent that logs every negative comment someone makes about me online, then creates a profile of the person, maps all of their social connections and finds all their emails. Tomorrow morning, my AI agent will send out an email blast to everyone's extended social network detailing the horrible things they've said about me. And he says, just kidding, it's not just to their social network, but to the extended network of everyone they know as well. I'm for real, just kidding on all of this. I thought he would do it. I thought that was actually kind of an interesting experiment, just sort of narking on everyone. Narking on.

• 29:40Jordi Hays?

  On, it's probably millions, don't you think it would be millions of people?

• 29:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, if you include, you know, every Instagram comment, there's, I think there's a long tail of these things, so.

• 29:51Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 29:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:52Jordi Hays?

  Puko Capital says, some years ago, I just stopped logging into Netflix and never really thought about it again. Honestly surprised it's still worth 275 billion. I read this and, and I agree. I think I still pay for Netflix. I never use it. I would, it's interesting to think about how much you would pay for YouTube.

• 30:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:16Jordi Hays?

  Versus Netflix. Like my willingness to pay for YouTube would, would probably be in the thousands of dollars a year. And I would probably take a thousand dollars in exchange for never being able to use Netflix ever again.

• 30:35Speaker 01

  I, yeah, I, I agree. I mean, so much, so much of the content stuff is, is hard because now like 10 years ago, whatever, you don't have all the competing streaming platforms with like, oh, actually my favorite show is on this, so maybe for this month we'll get this and our family, there's, you know, we can move over for a little bit to try this one.

• 30:53Speaker 01

  I have not used Netflix in a long time.

• 30:55Jordi Hays?

  Oh, WAP raised 200 million in Series D funding from Sequoia and Shopify. Very cool to see Shopify coming in as a strategic. And yeah, I think that in many ways, WAP is the Shopify for a whole new category of work on the internet. And I think Stephen and the team have been pretty consistently underestimated by a lot of the market, but are extremely serious operators and, and have shown like massive ability to like, be flexible and evolve with their customers.

• 31:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:33Jordi Hays?

  Which, yeah, the, the work that they're doing in various forms, whether it's clipping or, or courses is constantly, constantly evolving. So.

• 31:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:46Jordi Hays?

  But, but that's it. We did it. We made it through. But that's it. We did it. We made it through. We made it through. I've always said that if, I wouldn't be podcasting if it wasn't for John, but.

• 32:00Speaker 01

  Nor would I.

• 32:01Jordi Hays?

  Nor would you, nor would any of us, but, but I'm glad we can do it. It's good, it's good that we can, we're not going to do it again. That's John's last, that's John's last six day, sick day for the year. So as we head into flu season, just remember, John, you already use your day up. It's over.

• 32:24Jordi Hays?

  Any, any final words? You remember what John says?

• 32:27Speaker 01

  Follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, subscribe to our newsletter. What else is there? I think that's it, right?

• 32:37Jordi Hays?

  Can't forget.

• 32:38Speaker 01

  Oh, how many days? Oh yeah, what are we at?

• 32:40Jordi Hays?

  64 days.

• 32:43Speaker 01

  We're right there. We're in the final stretch now.

• 32:46Jordi Hays?

  We're in the final innings.

• 32:48Jordi Hays?

  That's it, folks.

• 32:52Speaker 01

  Leave us five stars.

• 32:54Jordi Hays?

  Wow, really delayed flash. We love you guys. See you tomorrow.