OpenAI Math Breakthroughs, SpaceX’s $40B Nvidia Deal, Quant Firms Hiring Idea Guys | Diet TBPN

Diet TBPN delivers the best of today’s TBPN episode in 30 minutes. TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with each episode posted to podcast platforms right after. Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” the show has recently featured Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella. TBPN is made possible by: Ramp - https://ramp.com Public - https://public.com Cisco - https://www.cisco.com Console - https://www.console.com CrowdStrike - https://www.crowdstrike.com Figma - https://www.figma.com MongoDB - https://www.mongodb.com NYSE - https://www.nyse.com Railway - https://railway.com Shopify - https://www.shopify.com/ Follow TBPN: https://TBPN.com https://x.com/tbpn https://open.spotify.com/show/2L6WMqY3GUPCGBD0dX6p00?si=674252d53acf4231 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/technology-brothers/id1772360235 https://www.youtube.com/@TBPNLive

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02John Coogan?

  First off, I got a little movie review for you. I saw a movie yesterday. I went to the theater and I saw Primetime. And I wanted to, yeah, oh, okay. I want a review from those on the production team who have seen Primetime, the new Robert Pattinson film, but I thought I would try and take you on sort of a film critique, a journey with a review that sort of channels the way Tyler reviews movies. So here's my review of Primetime.

• 0:37John Coogan?

  It was good. The audio was good and the video was good. Act one was good. Act two was good.

• 0:45Jordi Hays?

  And the acting.

• 0:46John Coogan?

  Three was good. The acting was good and the lighting and the cinematography was good. And the set design was good. So overall.

• 0:58Jordi Hays?

  I feel like I have a really.

• 0:59John Coogan?

  I would say it's a good movie.

• 1:02Jordi Hays?

  Strong review. That was a good review.

• 1:04John Coogan?

  Pretty good. What do you guys think? You liked it?

• 1:09John Coogan?

  Let's get Scott up here.

• 1:10Speaker 02

  Saw that movie.

• 1:11John Coogan?

  Yeah, you liked it?

• 1:13Speaker 02

  I thought it was great.

• 1:14John Coogan?

  Was the the frame? It felt like I was watching IMAX format, but it was just four three.

• 1:19Speaker 02

  They used 23 different cameras on that movie.

• 1:22John Coogan?

  The cinematography was crazy, right?

• 1:24Speaker 02

  It was insane.

• 1:24John Coogan?

  Highlights blown out and there was so much grain, like it was.

• 1:28Speaker 02

  It was like way too stylized for a Chris Hansen movie.

• 1:32John Coogan?

  I had no idea where any of this would like, where these ideas came from. It feels like they were just pulling from every different camera from that era.

• 1:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:40John Coogan?

  It was really, really cool.

• 1:41Speaker 02

  Well, Lance Oppenheim.

• 1:44John Coogan?

  There we go.

• 1:45Speaker 02

  Lance Oppenheim, he does documentaries. Have you seen Ren Faire and?

• 1:48John Coogan?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, that's right. That's right. Okay, cool. Yeah. Uh, but yeah, really, really fun, you know, creative way to throw back to like the way people watch TV at that time.

• 1:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:00John Coogan?

  Four by three.

• 2:01Speaker 02

  I like that. I like that Chris Hansen was kind of like the antagonist the entire time.

• 2:04John Coogan?

  Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a complex investigation of his career and, and, uh, and the way he's remembered. Did he go too far? It feels like a little bit heavy handed, like it's pretty clear.

• 2:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:16John Coogan?

  The, the vision, it doesn't fully leave you open to make your own judgment, but you of course can.

• 2:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:22John Coogan?

  Which I, I thought was a nice touch. And, and Robert Pattinson is just in fighting form, like.

• 2:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's in a flow state.

• 2:28John Coogan?

  He's just in flow state. Yeah, he's really good. Uh, anyway, we clearly were teasing it, but of course we have the TBPN Road to Christmas Countdown ready for you. Let's let you know. Let's remind everyone. There are 78 days until Christmas. Get ready. Get ready. If you missed it yesterday, we did an interview, a deep dive into the Christmas tree tree Farmers Association of America, understanding everything from how the Christmas tree industry is structured to techniques for keeping your Christmas tree alive.

• 3:07Jordi Hays?

  And if you watch any tech or business content this week, it's gotta be that.

• 3:11John Coogan?

  It's gotta be that. It's gotta be that.

• 3:13Jordi Hays?

  Interview. Uh, it was.

• 3:15John Coogan?

  We highly recommend that you donate. I made a donation yesterday. TreesforTroops.org. Give whatever you can. They also do company matching. So if you, uh, work at a company that matches donations, uh, if you're an early anthropic employee and they match three to one, back the truck up. Throw down a hundred mil. Come on, let's do it. Let's, let's get, every troop must have the biggest tree possible, a 40 footer, you know? I want a White House style tree in every troop's home. That would be amazing. No, but, uh, he, he had some harsh words

• 3:53John Coogan?

  for the plastic tree industry. He called them toilet brushes, which was hilarious. I, I'd never heard that, that slur for those uh, plastic trees before, but he, he had it ready to go, which I enjoyed. And it did, uh, and I noticed some people in the comments saying, hey, look, I understand that a real tree is better, but not everyone can afford a real tree and the economics of a of a plastic tree just sometimes make, make more sense for certain people. And I understand that. Not everyone's in the position to buy a, a brand new expensive tree. Anyway, Ben Thompson's going through a bunch of frustrations over, um, Mac OS. He's vibe coding, building apps. The apps need permissions. We've talked about this, uh, the, the agentic era.

• 4:36John Coogan?

  But yesterday there was a post that hit the timeline that was, uh, pretty crazy, a, a sort of truth nuke, uh, for the Adobe crowd. Someone decompiled basically every Adobe product, ArtCraft, GetArtCraft.com, capable tools for artists, and you can download for free all sorts of different tools that they have. And they basically cloned.

• 5:02Jordi Hays?

  What kind of tools?

• 5:03John Coogan?

  Photoshop, Premiere Pro, uh, they, it feels like they can do a lot. I'm not exactly sure if they decompiled everything in the Adobe ecosystem, but listed here is PhotoCraft, which is clearly Photoshop, VectorCraft, which is Adobe Illustrator, FilmCraft, which is, uh, Premiere Pro, LightCraft, which is Lightroom, PrintCraft, EffectCraft, which looks like After Effects, and then DesignCraft, which is, I think, InDesign. Uh, more crafts are on the way. And so it says all Adobe products re-implemented from scratch, free and open source. And, uh, this is pretty, pretty crazy. There have been open source competitors to Photoshop for a long time. They've always lagged a lot.

• 5:46John Coogan?

  I downloaded, uh, the Photoshop decomp, decompilation, PhotoCraft, used it a little bit, not bad. Pretty remarkable how many tools did make it over. It actually doesn't have everything that you would expect. Some of the really cool features of modern Photoshop are actually AI and they run on the server. So if you want to patch a hole, you've always been able to fill it in with a, with a full color. You've also been able to do content aware fill, where it has a basic algorithm that looks at the colors of the pixels around, the textures, and tries to blend that in, but it can be a little, it's like pretty hallucinatory. And then recently Adobe launched AI fill. I forget what it's called. Not, it's not content aware fill. It's, it's, it's some generative fill.

• 6:30John Coogan?

  I think they call it generative fill. And that of course runs on the server, usually uses Nano Banana, or they have a, they have a couple of fine tuned models. And that feature, because it's server side, doesn't work. So there's this interesting thing where like, yeah, you're in the death of software. You can just decompile everything, but at the same time, I probably want my software to run on the server. I want the server to be stable. I, I need the, I need services. So all the investments that software makers made in providing like inference heavy tooling actually sort of creates a little bit more of a moat. Obviously the moats are, are decreasing, but there still is something where, where if I were doing heavy duty Photoshop use, PhotoCraft would not be a perfect substitute for my workflow.

• 7:12John Coogan?

  For some people, they'll be like, yeah, this is actually perfect, but you've always been able to download an illegal copy of Photoshop. But this is less illegal, maybe. It's unclear. It's unclear because it's probably.

• 7:25Jordi Hays?

  Has Adobe responded yet?

• 7:27John Coogan?

  I don't know, but it's going to be fun to watch the open source decompilation community, uh, duke it out with all the tech companies.

• 7:35Jordi Hays?

  Yeah. The interesting thing is, um, there's been so many reasons to not buy Adobe for so long.

• 7:40John Coogan?

  Sure.

• 7:40Jordi Hays?

  Just given that historically I would think of an idea for even like a joke.

• 7:45John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 7:46Jordi Hays?

  And I'd be thinking in my head, I wish I had, I wish I had the time to Photoshop this, or I wish I had somebody handy that could just Photoshop this.

• 7:53John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 7:53Jordi Hays?

  Now you just, you get there with a prompt.

• 7:56John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 7:56Jordi Hays?

  Especially for these sort of less professional use cases.

• 8:00John Coogan?

  Totally. Tools sort of stick around if it's like, you need to lock in and do like a full day of work. Like, there's no substitute yet for like, if, if you were going to be spending eight hours in After Effects or eight hours in Premiere Pro, you're probably not going to be able to replace that with a prompt. But if it's like, oh yeah, you want to just like, you know, composite two images together for a meme or add some text, a prompt is going to get you there. If it was, and it would have been 20 minutes of work in Photoshop. Now it's, uh, you know, one minute of work in ChatGPT, um, or any other tool. Uh, and so the, obviously we're seeing like these two spikes of intelligence right now. Anything that can be done in a purely virtual environment is accelerating extremely quickly.

• 8:44John Coogan?

  Anything that touches like the real world or requires human data or requires like this flywheel, that's much slower. Uh, and the OpenAI math results like show a similar story. We can talk about that more later, but I'm sure most people saw it. It's a pretty crazy result. Uh, what is the, what is the highlight, the high level? It's like 70 different problems, right?

• 9:05Speaker 03

  I think it was, so I think the, the full number is 722, like manuscripts.

• 9:09John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 9:10Speaker 03

  And then so it's kind of hard to like, how do you delineate like an actual problem?

• 9:13John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 9:13Speaker 03

  Yeah. There's like a massive list of like unsolved problems.

• 9:16John Coogan?

  Yeah. The, the press release just calls it a broad range. It's like we solved math. It's, uh, it's interesting. There's a, there's a good Josh Gann's article analysis on Substack that we can read through later. And, and Francois Chollet, uh, the creative RKGI, broke down a theory of what's going on with this big jump in progress and what it means for overall generalization. He said, what if the jagged frontier is mainly math plus code, which you can push arbitrarily far with reinforcement, learning, learning with verifiable rewards, RLVR, and everything else starts to plateau because it's still bottlenecked by human generated data.

• 9:55John Coogan?

  Model performance in non-verifiable areas has kept improving steadily, albeit much slower than for math and code. But is that steady improvement a side effect of a higher G, the general intelligence, itself driven by RLVR? Or only a function of the amount of new human data getting injected into training, which is still continually happening on a massive scale? A lot of things depend on the answer to this question. And so this is a less of a fieldy AGI moment and more of a field of super intelligence moment for me personally. Because no human intelligence has ever been able to solve this many math problems this quickly.

• 10:37John Coogan?

  At this level of mathematical ability.

• 10:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:39John Coogan?

  Like, it's just, it has never happened in human history. Uh, it's beyond, it feels like it's beyond Einstein grinding on this, or anyone else, really. Uh, and so it feels like it's something new. At the same time, it's very spiky. I still like the machine intelligence name because it has a different shape. And we're trying to mold the machine intelligence into something that slots in neatly into like a human, a, a, a general framework, but it keeps breaking out and spiking in these odd areas because of the, the, the ability to train in these environments. So the terminology debates are sort of irrelevant. Um, there's clearly some near-term impacts that are worth working through.

• 11:24John Coogan?

  Uh, as I mentioned earlier, Ben Thompson has been working through these Mac OS frustrations while he goes deeper in agentic AI. Uh, he wrote about this in a, a Stratechery post called Apple and the Hacker's Future. He said, what I'm much more interested in is controlling the software layer myself. The fact of the matter is that with AI, you can decompile almost all existing software. There is a revolution happening in gaming over the past few weeks as game after game is decompiled to source and ported to any platform you wish, and you can write your own. That means my software that interacts with my agent in the way I want it to for everything.

• 12:02John Coogan?

  That's way more exciting than praying Apple delivers the right API and that third-party developers don't suck. And so he's talked about the frustration of you use an agent to build a piece of software and that piece of software lives on your Mac Mini or your computer and it needs to access the desktop to save files or it needs to, uh, access the network. And when you build a new piece of software, Mac OS says, hey, this is a, this is a piece of software you're running, but you need to explicitly give it permissions. You have to click yes on the pop-up. We're all familiar with this from iOS. You download an app and it's like, can it send you notifications? Can it have your location? Can it get into your camera roll? Right?

• 12:46John Coogan?

  Like these, these apps, even after you install them, they're very walled off for privacy reasons, which is great, but Ben wants to operate at a different level of abstraction, give a coding harness the ability to write software that then maintains the same level of approvals and, uh, and access, uh, and permissions that the overarching AI agent has been given. There's been this bull case for Linux. It's possible that we see more Linux boxes and maybe even Linux on the desktop because all of the downsides of Linux are offset by, oh, well, now you just have a prompt to interface with it instead of anytime, like getting like the volume changed in Linux is sometimes like a command line thing and it's such a hassle.

• 13:31John Coogan?

  But if you have a prompt there, you can just say, oh, like fix this driver, change this thing and it'll just go do it. What's interesting is like, we went from like old games like Halo and Modern Warfare two and Minecraft being decompiled, uh, and then Photoshop and some other Adobe software. And I'm wondering like, how far are we away from just straight up decompiling Mac OS? Because if you can decompile Mac OS, then you could potentially patch security features that you don't like, change that fact that every new application needs permissions granted explicitly. You could just go into the source code and recompile your new version of your operating system that's based on Mac OS.

• 14:16John Coogan?

  Now clearly Apple's not going to be happy about that. It's really complicated, but what do you think?

• 14:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, isn't that just like jailbreaking with your iPhone? We've been able to do that for a while, but no one does it because then you lose like a bunch of features of Apple.

• 14:26John Coogan?

  Yeah, I wonder, I wonder how hostile Apple would be to that because is there a way to, to decompile, jailbreak, uh, Mac OS and still appear to Apple servers as like, oh yeah, this is like a legit Mac OS install. And so, uh, we will still serve them iCloud or we will still, uh, treat it as a viable iMessage recipient, which is like what people want. They want iMessage, they want the ecosystem, they want security updates, but then they also are at least the hackers in Ben Thompson's analysis.

• 14:58Speaker 03

  Sure they'll love it and they'll encourage it and they'll celebrate it.

• 15:01John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah. Uh, it, but it does feel like, it does feel like it could be good for the hackers future in the Apple ecosystem. Like if you can eventually just point an AI model and say like, you know what? I don't like this about Mac OS, but I like everything else. Just change this feature at a very root, root level and it goes and breaks in and does exactly what you want. Hackers could be like, yeah, okay, we're staying with Mac OS for a while because the hardware is great. They obviously still have a huge hardware mode. Um, but there are a whole bunch of other, uh, issues in the new world where software is infinitely malleable. Adobe market cap, where we traded down 3%, 5% over the last five days, 10% over the past month. I don't know, there's like an ongoing SaaS apocalypse narrative.

• 15:44John Coogan?

  It's down 33% over the past year, but, uh, it doesn't seem like people are, are, are canceling their Creative Cloud subscriptions en masse because of this, but it'll be interesting to see where this goes. This is definitely like, uh, you gotta be pretty early adopter-ish to be like, yeah, I'm running the decompiled version of this thing and like, I modded my own Halo into Modern Warfare and I'm having fun with that. I did see someone got a nuke in Modern Warfare two Minecraft edition. Did you get a nuke?

• 16:13Speaker 03

  I, I did not drop a nuke.

• 16:15John Coogan?

  It seems like you did drop a nuke on this show.

• 16:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, right now.

• 16:18Jordi Hays?

  Uh-oh, uh-oh.

• 16:19John Coogan?

  I feel like the sound effects are a little anticlimactic there. Okay, there we go. I guess it would be quiet. There we go, the truth.

• 16:26Jordi Hays?

  It's been a good run.

• 16:27John Coogan?

  Goodbye, everyone. We'll be back in five seconds.

• 16:30Jordi Hays?

  John, uh, do you value human intelligence above all other human qualities?

• 16:37John Coogan?

  No.

• 16:37Jordi Hays?

  I knew the answer to that already because we've been operating with a golden retriever mindset.

• 16:43John Coogan?

  Yes, yes. The golden retriever mindset, uh, two years ago, we sort of coined this on the show. It's the two-year anniversary of TBPN, by the way. We started in October of 2024.

• 16:54Jordi Hays?

  There we go.

• 16:55John Coogan?

  Yeah, two years in. Um, but yes, the golden retriever mindset. Be hot, friendly and dumb. Something that, uh, it was, this is pre-looks maxing, but it was basically like focus on physical fitness, don't make enemies, be very friendly and don't think you're the smartest person in the room. No one really likes to know it all, but also you're going to have a bad time if you, uh, if you prize value and if you value intelligence above all other human qualities, you're going to have a bad time. That was Ilya Sutskever in 2023. And, um, yeah, it seems like that is playing out in real time, but there are still a whole

• 17:36John Coogan?

  bunch of other things and I don't know, people are like, intelligence is still really important, obviously. It's just applied in so many different ways. It's, it's just odd that like the IMO gold medalist to startup founder pipeline is super rich and yet the work of a Scott Wu at cognition day to day does not look like solving IMO medal, uh, IMO level.

• 17:59Jordi Hays?

  It looks like high stakes poker.

• 18:01John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Deal-making, hiring, strategy, implementation, product development. There's so many other things. It would be very funny if it was just like, oh yeah, actually like solving math problems is the most like, if you can solve math problem, you, your, your company will make like a billion dollars. So you gotta solve like 12 a year. So you gotta just staff like a lot of mathematicians and like just be solving these and like, yeah, as long as, okay, how are you going to solve 20 of these math problems that get you a billion dollars each next year? Cause we need to see growth. We need to underwrite these, it's a pretty high margin, but you gotta pay the mathematicians a lot. No, it's never really been, that, that's not the work, but, uh, it, it's all these, it's all these other human qualities, uh, that seem to be sticking around.

• 18:46Jordi Hays?

  Rune says, do not let yourself be reduced to the status of an audience at a magic show, uncomprehendingly clapping as machine intelligence creates parcels of astounding knowledge. All of this is for us to be understood by us to sate our own curiosities. It's all really happening. Uh, yeah, the good news here, the, you know, the internal model that, uh, was used.

• 19:08John Coogan?

  Why is he taking shots at being an audience member at a magic show? That's like my favorite thing to do.

• 19:14Jordi Hays?

  Kind of a low, low blow.

• 19:14John Coogan?

  I'm like the number one audience member at a magic show. I love magic shows and I love being there, being like, wow, this is amazing. That's the best. That's the best. I don't need to be the guy being like, oh, I figured out the magic trick. I, I know how it works. I just want to sit there and be off. And that's my experience today. I'm just like, really impressive math, guys, awesome, but I don't, I don't need to.

• 19:37Jordi Hays?

  We did it.

• 19:38John Coogan?

  I'm good.

• 19:39Jordi Hays?

  Uh, SpaceX looking to raise 40 billion to give to Jensen. Blockbuster debt deals, latest sign of vast spending on chips and other infrastructure. The company is seeking to raise about 10 billion in bank loans and 30 billion in investment grade debt to fund its blockbuster chip order. Private capital group Apollo is expected to lead the financing effort and help sell the debt to a broad base of investors. Uh, PIMCO was among a small group of lenders in talks to fund the deal. SpaceX financing plans underscore the vast sums that are being raised to pay for an investment in data centers. Insurance and pension funds would be able to buy SpaceX's debt due to its BBB credit rating, the second lowest investment grade ranking. Such funds take much more limited positions in junk rated notes. Apollo and PIMCO does, uh, declined to comment.

• 20:24Jordi Hays?

  The deal would strengthen ties between SpaceX and Nvidia after Musk vowed to double down on the group's technology for his AI initiatives. It would also mark a win for Nvidia as it contends with growing competition from chip makers aiming to challenge its dominance in advanced semiconductors. We've decided to build exclusively on Nvidia because we think the Vera Rubin architecture is the best architecture. We think it's the best AI computer and we greatly value our close cooperation and partnership on many levels.

• 20:51John Coogan?

  That's interesting because that's, that's only on the short term, right? Because he's still doing terra fab, he's going to make his own chips, he's making his own chips at Tesla and he has to deal with Intel for that.

• 21:00Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 21:01John Coogan?

  So he's kind of just saying like.

• 21:03Jordi Hays?

  I think he recognizes like right now it's very strategic to just, um, kiss, kiss the ring, basically.

• 21:09John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 21:09Jordi Hays?

  Um, investors whom SpaceX had previously approached about financing its purchase said they only received a short two-page deal memo with pictures of outer space and an arrow pointing out that the company was going to build data centers somewhere in the universe. How are we supposed to take that to IC? One of the people said, sounds like a pretty good memo to me.

• 21:29John Coogan?

  I was, I was laughing at this too. And then I was thinking like, it really is pretty simple. Like it's $40 billion, buy some chips. What is the value of the chips? How do you underwrite those? Like, I mean, I guess you need more, but you can probably, uh, you can probably back of the envelope it yourself. But it is, it is funny that, uh, the photos that we saw in the S1 made it into even the, even the private credit side of the, of the deal making.

• 21:58Jordi Hays?

  You're exploring putting billions to work into AI infrastructure. You should probably be doing a lot of your own work on understanding the risks.

• 22:06John Coogan?

  Totally.

• 22:07Jordi Hays?

  How this could go wrong.

• 22:08John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 22:08Jordi Hays?

  And I think that, uh, giving money to Elon and just sort of trusting the process has worked today.

• 22:14John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 22:15Jordi Hays?

  And so he's sort of earned the right to have a, you know, shorter than, than average memo, I think at this point. Uh, what does Nick Presler have to say? Says, look at him. That's my qual. Your what? Your qualitative. My vibe specialist. Look at him. You notice anything different about it? Look at his face. I'll give you a hint. His name is Jaden. He won a local poetry competition in Bushwick. Yeah, I'm sure of the vibe.

• 22:39John Coogan?

  This is, this is based on real reporting here from AQR Capital. Uh, quant firms are hiring idea guys, not quants. I've been skeptical about the whole software is commoditized, ideas are the moat argument, but I've seen firsthand the best quant and technical firms in the world hire thinkers, liberal arts grads and generalists. I predict the trend accelerates. Uh, yeah, I actually know, now that I'm thinking about it, I know a lot of hedge fund guys who have philosophy degrees and I'm kind of biased here, I think, based on the sample size, but I know a lot of people like have studied history and gone into, uh, investment,

• 23:20John Coogan?

  investing and they brought a very differentiated lens to the practice and some of them did really well because of that, because they were able to, you know, understand the way like the Eurozone might develop more because they studied, you know, history as P in a PhD program.

• 23:38Jordi Hays?

  They, they had a crazy Euro summer.

• 23:40John Coogan?

  Yeah. So, uh, let's, let's read this actual letter. The question being asked, not only in finance, but also across industries and business schools is what remains a durable differentiator once AI has surpassed many of humanity's analytical and technical capabilities? Our answer is not what most people would expect to hear from a quantitative investor. Of course, AQR, what does AQR actually stand for? It's like advanced quantitative research, I think.

• 24:11Jordi Hays?

  Yes.

• 24:11John Coogan?

  Uh, is that right? Did I one shot?

• 24:13Jordi Hays?

  Applied.

• 24:13John Coogan?

  Applied.

• 24:14Jordi Hays?

  No.

• 24:15John Coogan?

  Oh.

• 24:18Jordi Hays?

  We should know that.

• 24:18John Coogan?

  Our answer is not what most people would expect to hear from a quantitative investor or in business school dean, creativity and emotional intelligence. That's what's going to get you the big bucks on Wall Street going forward. Uh, you gotta win that poetry competition in Bushwick if you want to get the big bonus. Uh, not because these qualities are wholly immune to AI, but because in the age of AI, they are domains where people can develop a durable advantage. They, AQR said golden retriever max. They, they, they agree. They agree. The air, the, the time of the golden retriever is upon us. You're in Europe and you're building the data center. You gotta call Cisco. Uh, you also gotta procure a

• 25:00John Coogan?

  beautiful, beautiful building because, uh, take a look at this European data center. Amazing. This solves so much. This is so good, right? This is what we want. Uh, this is, this would change so many things if, uh, if our, if we had a data center, if, if Abilene looked like Versailles, it's a completely different conversation. Jordy, do you disagree?

• 25:22Jordi Hays?

  I agree.

• 25:23John Coogan?

  I'm on to something, right?

• 25:24Jordi Hays?

  I agree.

• 25:24John Coogan?

  Give me credit here. Make, build Versailles as a data center. Actually turn Versailles into a data center, then copy paste it into every community in America.

• 25:34Jordi Hays?

  Okay. So I'm so, I'm so confused because this image.

• 25:39John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 25:40Jordi Hays?

  Came out of a thread from the co-founder of Mistral.

• 25:44John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 25:45Jordi Hays?

  Which he posted announcing Le Chong, their new model yesterday.

• 25:49John Coogan?

  Oh, it's, it's train.

• 25:50Jordi Hays?

  But then it's, but then it's getting community noticed. I think he might've been.

• 25:53John Coogan?

  He was joking.

• 25:55Jordi Hays?

  Was he messing with people?

• 25:56John Coogan?

  Brutal. It seems like it's.

• 25:57Jordi Hays?

  It's a train station in France.

• 25:59John Coogan?

  Hmm.

• 26:00Jordi Hays?

  He pranked us.

• 26:01John Coogan?

  Well, it will be a data center soon. I think the traction on this post shows you that people want beautiful data centers.

• 26:09Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 26:10John Coogan?

  And this is the future.

• 26:11Jordi Hays?

  A reporter was on the ground.

• 26:13John Coogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 26:15Jordi Hays?

  Apparently inside.

• 26:16John Coogan?

  Great.

• 26:16Jordi Hays?

  A data center. They were asking one of the construction workers, his thoughts on the current labor market. Let's pull this up.

• 26:23Speaker 04

  So when you hear data centers, what comes to mind? I'm working at Homer City, building the new data center. People say it's only temporary. It's only when they're building it out. Then what happens?

• 26:33Speaker 04

  Hey, every job in my field is temporary. That's true too. Okay. I hear you, man. So when you hear data.

• 26:38John Coogan?

  The reporter's like, yeah, that's a good point, actually. Uh, yeah. People haven't really said that before. Like, that's kind of a genius take. I don't know. I've never heard that. It's like, yeah, they're temporary, but every construction job is temporary. That's the whole point. Uh, funny. Anyway, uh, what if instead of Greek life, it was Chinese life? Yeah, bro. I'm rushing Mao Zedong next semester. There's like 1.4 billion people in my pledge class. Uh, I thought that was just very funny. Instead of Greek life. Cause we use the Greek alphabet. Chinese, it'd be very funny.

• 27:15Jordi Hays?

  David Holes, uh, shares reflecting on 1920s images of people working on massive generators for the electric electrification of the modern world makes me realize that the past was wildly futuristic too. Uh, this image was so, seeing this was honestly depressing to me in some ways because it felt like, it feels in some ways like a mid-journey image of the future. And yet we were doing this over a hundred years ago.

• 27:43John Coogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:44Jordi Hays?

  Um, and, uh, it really makes.

• 27:47John Coogan?

  Well, we don't know the full story.

• 27:48Jordi Hays?

  I'm feeling the stagnation.

• 27:49John Coogan?

  These guys could be LARPing. These could be LARPers and this could all be hardboard. And they could be like, yeah, let's just, like, I think we gotta, we gotta build something really cool and take a photo of it. And so they just built something huge, but it actually has no functional purpose. You don't know. You don't know. But I think it's real because we did get the electrification. We enjoy it every day.

• 28:09Jordi Hays?

  That's right.

• 28:10John Coogan?

  I thought it was possible. We did it. We did it. We created more ad space. You saw this? DIY device turns your car window into a digital billboard. They said it couldn't be done, but we did it. DIY system. It's called hollow glass and it turns your car into a moving display. Can turn almost any car window into a digital display for ads. This is the future. It allows you to basically digitize the exterior of your windows to share content on the go, says the founder, who I invited on the show. Hopefully we'll get him soon. You can literally pop it in, pop it out. We make them for all makes and models. If you're getting Jaguar type O1, get a couple of these in there. Offset that cost.

• 28:55John Coogan?

  Run some ads. An app controls what you see from videos on your phone to a custom sign you can generate in seconds. The system.

• 29:02Jordi Hays?

  Can you just blast Paw Patrol out for the?

• 29:05John Coogan?

  You can do whatever you want.

• 29:06Jordi Hays?

  For the other, you know, citizens sitting in traffic?

• 29:08John Coogan?

  Yes. Yes. This is extremely cyber pumped. If you're running this with the, with the Nuvo Lari, with the Cybertruck, with the, with the Jaguar type O1, and you're just blaring ads, look at this. It attaches, that's just a full on projector. This, this company's layers is like, that is just an off the shelf projector. And they're just selling you a projector and a mount and the software system.

• 29:32Jordi Hays?

  It's brilliant, John.

• 29:33John Coogan?

  It's brilliant. We love it. I, we were, I was getting worried that, uh, there weren't going to be that many more ad inventory services.

• 29:40Jordi Hays?

  So what does it cost? And then what kind of revenue can you generate if you opt into serving ads?

• 29:46John Coogan?

  It starts at about $300.

• 29:48Jordi Hays?

  I feel like this will math out.

• 29:50John Coogan?

  It depends on, so.

• 29:51Jordi Hays?

  Maybe not in year one.

• 29:52John Coogan?

  The audience is what matters. So where are you driving this? Because if you're driving this around Sand Hill Road and you're advertising a bunch of really high ticket items to venture capitalists, could be really high, uh, AOV, really high ARPU. But if you're driving it around someplace where people don't have as much disposable income, you're not going to be seeing the same CPM.

• 30:16Jordi Hays?

  How much do you think somebody in a city like LA could make on a daily basis?

• 30:22John Coogan?

  I don't know.

• 30:23Jordi Hays?

  Do they give any estimates?

• 30:24John Coogan?

  One dollar. I have no idea.

• 30:26Jordi Hays?

  I think that, uh, I think it probably costs a lot more than that to run like one of those taxi ads on the top of a roof on a per day basis. So I think the math could actually be pretty compelling, right? If you can basically pay back the, the unit in six months and then from that point on, you're just getting paid to commute.

• 30:47John Coogan?

  I like it. Thank you for tuning into TBPN today.

• 30:51Jordi Hays?

  It's been an honor.

• 30:52John Coogan?

  Leave us 5000 on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Sign up for our newsletter at tbpn.com and we will see you tomorrow. Goodbye.