Sign-In With GPT, Anthropic Vs. the Pope, Paramount Rebrands as Skydance | Diet TBPN

Diet TBPN delivers the best of today’s TBPN episode in 30 minutes. TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with each episode posted to podcast platforms right after. Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” the show has recently featured Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella. TBPN is made possible by: Ramp - https://ramp.com Public - https://public.com Cisco - https://www.cisco.com Console - https://www.console.com CrowdStrike - https://www.crowdstrike.com Figma - https://www.figma.com MongoDB - https://www.mongodb.com NYSE - https://www.nyse.com Railway - https://railway.com Shopify - https://www.shopify.com/ Follow TBPN: https://TBPN.com https://x.com/tbpn https://open.spotify.com/show/2L6WMqY3GUPCGBD0dX6p00?si=674252d53acf4231 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/technology-brothers/id1772360235 https://www.youtube.com/@TBPNLive

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03John Coogan?

  Oh, we're getting Christmasy up in here. Okay.

• 0:06Jordi Hays?

  Here we go.

• 0:06John Coogan?

  Very Christmasy. It's Q4. We're in the correct, we're in the correct season now, so we can get pretty Christmasy.

• 0:14Jordi Hays?

  That is right.

• 0:15John Coogan?

  It's pretty tricky to stay in the little.

• 0:17Jordi Hays?

  Enough about Christmas, John. Let's, let's get into the news.

• 0:20John Coogan?

  Let's talk about artificial intelligence. Uh, yeah. So, uh, make it less Christmasy. It's too Christmasy. It's 80 days away. This is a, this is no more than 20 days away before we get that, that Christmas.

• 0:34Jordi Hays?

  I'll just leave this on.

• 0:35John Coogan?

  Yeah. So, uh, there was this funny moment, uh, in a dev day, uh, this week where, um, you know, everyone's like focused on the war of like Dots versus Muse versus Instinct. And, and there were a couple of times where you're like, I want to talk about sign in with chat GPT, which is like the most like boring and like minute feature and not very much not in like the drama war for the personal agent where who's going to do your shopping? Who's going to book your.

• 1:00Jordi Hays?

  I just thought it was cool for independent developers, small app builders.

• 1:04John Coogan?

  It's actually like probably more immediately relevant to the community that was there, like the developers, right?

• 1:11Jordi Hays?

  Yeah. And, and you remember when like flashback to two years ago, people were creating these magical new product experiences with the best models at the time, but they were in hindsight, pretty rudimentary.

• 1:22John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:22Jordi Hays?

  And they would build something magical, scale up really quickly and then be like, whoa, I'm just got stuck with like a $30,000 API bill.

• 1:30John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 1:31Jordi Hays?

  And so this is the solve for that because it allows users to bring their own compute.

• 1:35John Coogan?

  BYOC.

• 1:36Jordi Hays?

  BYOC.

• 1:37John Coogan?

  Everyone knows BYOB. Now we're in the era of BYOC. And, uh, and, and, and yeah, like, you know, most companies, they could usually figure out a way to say, hey, like this service is going to use a ton of compute. So you gotta jump on the pro plan immediately. You gotta set up a consumption, a credit card relationship, API credit, something like that, uh, metered billing. But it was just an extra step, an extra point of friction of you saying like, okay, I already paid 10 bucks a month for this thing. Now I gotta actually, uh, pay for inference. And this gives like a different off take. So, uh, yeah, Peter Yang was feeling the same way that you were. He said, uh, I'm excited about Dots, but even more excited about sign in with chat GPT feature.

• 2:17John Coogan?

  Letting users use the chat GPT plan in your website or app makes a bunch of indie apps a lot more viable. Uh, example, I have a live language learning app that I wasn't planning to launch to users due to API costs, but letting users sign in with chat GPT makes this viable. Hope they roll it out to non-enterprise folks soon. Vignesh, who's actually running the project, said, I'm going to try and answer a bunch of questions that people have raised about signing with chat GPT in the next couple of days. Before that, I want to let you know why they shipped it. The bring your own subscription stuff, it sticks out because it feels like it's potentially like the beginning of a new economic structure. Like, is this an app store where there will be a margin that accrues to OpenAI? Or is this more just like better for discovery?

• 2:57John Coogan?

  Will agents like reach for these because the sign in is available? How much more smooth will this get? But, you know, at a high level, I think you described it well. A user can sign into an app or service. The Notion example is a good one because it's very intuitive. People already pay for Notion. You can imagine all the AI features that are there. And people were probably on day one of chat GPT launching, copying from Notion into chat GPT, copying back into Notion, writing bindings. But if Notion wants to offer like a whole bunch of inference opportunities and agentic features inside, then they gotta go to other clients and say, hey, you're paying 10, 20 bucks a month for your seat.

• 3:37John Coogan?

  I, we also need a bunch of money for inference. This offsets that. And so the way it works is a user signs into the, to an app like Notion, then authorizes the app to run the OpenAI model requests against their plan without managing an API key. On Notion, this means drawing from the chat GPT allowance instead of Notion credits. And it makes a lot of sense for bigger companies that have inference bills, as you mentioned. And they've all had to grapple very quickly with like product tokenomics, which is just a new, new economic muscle and like price elasticity curve they need to ride effectively. Um, but the big thing is that it'll, it should over time allow leaner teams to offer inference hungry features with way less friction.

• 4:14John Coogan?

  So it's worth clarifying that the feature only brings OpenAI tokens along for the ride. It's not OpenAI dollars, which is, I think, a way where this could go. But the, the good example is like, let's say you have like some sort of AI book publisher where you're doing a bunch of token inference to generate the text of the book. Like you say, hey, I want to go take this, you know, general story, turn it into a book and then print it and send me the book, right? There's two sort of costs there. One's inference, one is.

• 4:46Jordi Hays?

  I'll scan it back into the computer and then I'll turn it into a playable video game.

• 4:51John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. But you can't offset the cost of printing books with OpenAI tokens in any way.

• 4:58Jordi Hays?

  Yes.

• 4:58John Coogan?

  Um, yes. Uh, but you could have the user spend their OpenAI credits to run the text generation side of the business. But I, but I do think this could go further. The example that I gave was, uh, generate a video. Uh, I'd like to have like a front door to AI that can handle the full billing relationship. So if I need to generate a video, I can just add that to my tab and.

• 5:18Jordi Hays?

  No, and you went through this, you went through this with Higgs field where you're using Codex to make videos.

• 5:23John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 5:24Jordi Hays?

  And somehow Higgs field has like $500 of yours now and it's locked in there.

• 5:31John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 5:31Jordi Hays?

  And, and it's unclear.

• 5:33John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 5:33Jordi Hays?

  How you can get it because you ended up buying like the wrong kind of credit or something like that.

• 5:39John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 5:39Jordi Hays?

  Very simple.

• 5:40John Coogan?

  Setting up like a consumer subscription and then I also bought API credits. So I have consumer credits and API credits. And in order to use the consumer credits, I need to write a new binding in Codex to use the front end as opposed to just.

• 5:56Jordi Hays?

  And that would be using computer, wouldn't that, using computer use, which would cost you more.

• 6:01John Coogan?

  Maybe a little bit. It's very unclear. And so all of these things are like very messy, but, and so, yeah, I mean, between computer use, MCP APIs, this might not even be a discussion. Because like you're very, like, we're pretty close to the workflow happening out of the box, even without direct integration. But then there's a question about will the apps like push back? But there is a world where even if you're, if you're an inference provider, you're maybe fine with not owning the front door. If you're generating so much more demand because you're integrated with the big platforms and you say, yeah, I'm actually losing the customer billing relationship.

• 6:38John Coogan?

  But I'm going to 10x my revenue because I'm like the model or the inference provider of choice when people go and they ask for a particular, uh, particular integration.

• 6:47Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 6:47John Coogan?

  And so there's always this dance with these integrations. Uh, you know, we were talking about it yesterday with the Neo clouds versus Nvidia, uh, strategy where, okay, well, if Nvidia actually does get DGX cloud leptin off the ground. And if you're on there, you're going to get so much more business and your, and your, your utilization rate is going to be so much higher, but you're not going to have the leverage over the, over the customer. Uh, it, it's always this like careful dance. And then ultimately if an app store does emerge, everyone gripes over, you know, the 30% tax, like the Apple taxes, the same. You could wind up there in the age of AI. But, uh, I, I think from a consumer perspective, like having a consolidated business really, uh, like billing relationship would be great.

• 7:27John Coogan?

  Even in the world where computer use can go like plop down your credit card and set up an API key, it's still nicer to have like one point of billing. And then true, like, like the buck stops with one model. So, okay, you want to do this? It's going to be 10 bucks. Is it cool?

• 7:43Jordi Hays?

  Yeah. It's the same, same reason that some people want all the streaming services to be rebundled.

• 7:48John Coogan?

  That and also why a lot of consumers are like, yeah, it's awesome when I subscribe to something on the app store because it's so easy to unsubscribe in the app store. You just go to your, your iOS subscriptions and you say, look, I'm canceling that. And it can't be, why are you canceling it? Make sure you call us. Like all that annoying stuff that happens when you're on like some website and they're, well, you actually have to call between, you know, 11 AM and 2 PM. And we take a two hour lunch in there and you gotta explain yourself and listen to our pitch for why you should stick around. Apple like makes it one click.

• 8:19Jordi Hays?

  Turn down the discount to stay.

• 8:20John Coogan?

  Exactly, exactly. Apple like turns all that off. And so that could be this like complex dynamic. Uh, app store economics are always, are always complex. But it might not, it might not matter because you can just go and with computer use say like, yeah, like set up this API key, use this credit card. It's a little hesitant still, and I don't think it's polished among any of the models. Um, a lot of them really hesitate. They're like, they'll even say like, don't give me your API key. Please put that in your environment. Don't give me your credit card number. I don't want it. I don't want it actually accidentally leaking or anything like that. Like even if you are being bold, uh, the models will often be really hesitant. I, I remember I was trying to use computer use to send an iMessage. I was like, go do a bunch of stuff.

• 9:05John Coogan?

  I'm going to leave. I don't want you to send me a push notification. Just text me. I have a text message open in iMessage. The window's right there. Go in that box and tell me when you're done and then I'll get it on my phone. It'll just come from me. And it spent so many tokens being like, I don't want to screw this up. This is high stakes. Like it really knew that like botching an iMessage computer use thing could be like ruinous, you know? Cause it winds up texting.

• 9:31Jordi Hays?

  It'd be over. It'd be over.

• 9:32John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It would be cut. The other reflection is like, uh, this whole app store concept, this whole sign in with chat GPT, bring your inference around. Let's partner on distribution. Let's integrate into the, into the app. Uh, let's be the front door. Uh, Sam originally launched this three years ago at the very first dev day, 2023. Uh, they, they had a product called GPTs and there was the GPT store and everyone was like, wow, okay, I totally see the vision. And then it was like three years of like languishing and like, and like tussling and back and forth.

• 10:05Jordi Hays?

  Too early.

• 10:06John Coogan?

  Yeah. And there's just been so many integrations like Walmart and Apple where people have said, okay, I want to do an integration, but it needs, it has to be really, really good and to my favor. And then it breaks down like the Siri integration that's, you know, going away because they're, they're migrating to Gemini is actually atrocious. Like you will ask a question and, and it's like, yeah, of course it didn't work. You ask a question, you ask a basic question and it will say like, oh, do you want to ask chat GPT? And then you need to click, click a button and then you click a button and it gives you an answer. And if you want to go deeper, you can say open in chat GPT and then it opens it.

• 10:43John Coogan?

  But chat GPT doesn't get all the context of whatever happened before. It just opens the app. And so it's like the worst possible like broken flow because like both companies were like begrudgingly working together basically. And being like, look, neither of us want to work together, but. The boss has signed a deal. So we gotta, we gotta do something here. So let's both.

• 11:04Jordi Hays?

  You gotta pretend.

• 11:05John Coogan?

  Let's both fight it out. Anyway, I'm interested in, in like your thesis of will there be like a flappy bird moment or like a small dev team that figures out like, hey, if we can be the victor in the tool that gets pulled off the shelf when, you know, there's 1.2 billion users, probably like, you know, they'll, they'll always give that quote about like 400 million people are asking about health questions. Like there's probably like 400 million people that are asking about, I don't know, some, some, some niche thing. And if you can be the tool that funnels and you actually use it as the top of funnel, we could definitely wind up talking to a founder who's like, oh yeah, I actually like basically figured out how to be the tool of choice. I log in, I monetize the

• 11:48John Coogan?

  inference better and I scale to a hundred million ARR in like a couple of months.

• 11:53Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 11:53John Coogan?

  Um, which is, uh, interesting. At the same time, there's going to be a lot of companies like, like this would be like such a solution for instinct, right? But they would never do it because they're trying to actually go up against on the core feature.

• 12:05Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 12:05John Coogan?

  And so there's this weird dynamic where, uh, you know, Noah was on Invest Like the Best being like, I spend 75% of my time trying to secure compute. I'm burning so much money. I gotta raise all this money. And like, the solution's like right there. But it's like, if you take that apple, like you leave the garden, you are, you're, you're in trouble probably. But, um, who knows?

• 12:24Jordi Hays?

  On the enterprise side, OpenAI, uh, announced a partnership with Base10, our friends over there.

• 12:28John Coogan?

  Oh, cool.

• 12:29Jordi Hays?

  Uh, just, just a few days ago at Dev Day. That's like a really good enterprise example because you can now basically get access to open models through your overall, like OpenAI, like commit, uh, which is, which is cool. And it's native in Codex. And then the other use cases that I'm thinking about are like, you know, all those like generate headshot apps, right? That have been super popular. Those are super compute intensive. And so being able to use, basically get access to images 2.5.

• 12:54John Coogan?

  Oh, sure, sure, sure.

• 12:55Jordi Hays?

  Is, is pretty cool.

• 12:56John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where like you've built an interesting funnel, you've built an interesting harness, you've built an interesting wrapper, but your computer scaling really unfortunately, and you have a, and you have the ability to like off take there is, uh, is very, very interesting.

• 13:12Jordi Hays?

  Trey's saying Coogan's War on Christmas. Yeah. What do you have against Christmas, John? We're in Q4 and you're asking, put away the decorations. It's kind of distracting.

• 13:23John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 13:23Jordi Hays?

  Do we really need them?

• 13:25John Coogan?

  Leave it, leave it, leave it. Pope Leo said, uh, in this era of artificial intelligence, it is becoming urgent to distinguish human art from what machines produce. There is an ontological difference, even before an aesthetic one, between art and what a machine can generate through statistical calculation based on millions of images created by others. Algorithms lack the spark of humanity. For this reason, the church wishes to renew an alliance with artists and cultural institutions to safeguard our humanity. Very interesting. Uh, what did PG reply? He said, uh, since your opinions are meant to last, you should consider what you'll say when AIs are trained on visual experience

• 14:09John Coogan?

  as well as art made by human artists, because that is presumably coming.

• 14:14Jordi Hays?

  Well, what prompted this, John?

• 14:15John Coogan?

  Walter Isaacson chimed in. Popes have been hiring good artists for a long time. Yeah. What prompted this? There's a article in the New York Times about the, uh, the interactions between Anthropic and the Vatican. Uh, Danny summed it up. Anthropic, Claude has a soul. Pope Leo says nah. Anthropic says, please say Claude has a soul. Leo says nah. Here's a book length explanation why that's not true. Anthropic says, we're pretty sure Claude has a soul. And Pope Leo responds with this. Uh, yeah, a lot of people are, are duking it out here. The bombshell report in the New York Times, uh, Christopher Hill sums it up here. Anthropic co-founder Chris Ola threatened to walk out of Pope Leo XIV's AI encyclical launch in May because the Pope

• 15:00John Coogan?

  rejected the idea that machines can be conscious. Ola's team then privately lobbied the Pope's advisors, quote, "to take the possibility of model consciousness seriously." Pope Leo XIV held firm. For months, Anthropic has wined and dined theologians and religious scholars under non-disclosure agreements, hoping they would bless the idea that Claude has moral standing. Okay. People are getting worried. They're debating, is it God or is it computer? Uh, Neil Kostola doesn't like it. He says, I am increasingly concerned about the AI psychosis inside Anthropic. Imagine zealously trying to build something you believe to be a conscious god while running around and claiming it will end the world.

• 15:44Jordi Hays?

  Yeah. And to, to their credit, they're not claiming that it will end the world. They're saying that there is a real possibility.

• 15:52John Coogan?

  Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. I- i- interesting that there's less of, uh, less of, less of a white pill there. Like, I don't know, there, there's a world where you're, where, where you're like, yeah, we're going to build God and like, it's going to be amazing. Like, uh, like P doom negative a thousand. Like, it's going to be even, it's going to be the best thing ever. There are no risk because it's God. It's, it's, it's, it's.

• 16:16Jordi Hays?

  The creator.

• 16:16John Coogan?

  Yeah. It's the creator. It's going to love us. Like, it's going to be so, it's going to be amazing. It's going to save us, you know? Uh, that, that would follow, but there, there is a little bit of like cognitive dissonance that it's like, well, what kind of god is it? Like a devil?

• 16:30Jordi Hays?

  Well, and I think the, the, I think what a lot of people should be asking themselves right now is, is Claude force conscious, right?

• 16:37John Coogan?

  Ooh.

• 16:38Jordi Hays?

  Because, I mean, that is the intelligence powering the Salesforce.

• 16:43John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 16:43Jordi Hays?

  Sort of ecosystem in, in many ways. And so at what point do you have to ask, is Salesforce, you know, if Salesforce is sort of embodied by Claude, is Salesforce conscious?

• 16:53John Coogan?

  Salesforce has been godlike for decades.

• 16:56Jordi Hays?

  Yes.

• 16:56John Coogan?

  People understand that it's, it's, it's a deity for customer relationship management.

• 17:01Jordi Hays?

  That's right.

• 17:02John Coogan?

  Bern Hobart says, looking at the current debates about Anthropic makes me feel guilty for not keeping up with some academic domains. I honestly had no idea that we'd solved consciousness and determined which substrates can and can't support it. Thought that one was more up in the air. He's joking, of course. I haven't found anything from someone in Anthropic saying models are conscious, just that they might be now or in the future. And yeah, that was something interesting in the New York Times article. Uh, Ola really goes back and forth. He's like, I don't know. I, and, and I, I, I thought that was, that was interesting that he was, he was advocating for, he's, we, he's a, we, we gotta talk about it guy. Basically that. He, he was saying like, I, I don't know. I don't have a firm position. And, and, and through like multiple reports, he,

• 17:46John Coogan?

  it's not like he was ever like, I'm convinced of this and I'm trying to pull people towards this discussion. He was just like, yeah, this is a, this is an interesting question. Consciousness is unintuitive. Why the heck is there such a thing as the experience of being me in the first place? What's the cutoff for which things can get it? When? Seems hard to be confident when everyone's operating on an N of one view. Yeah. Very odd.

• 18:11Jordi Hays?

  At the same time, that Vatican visit was at the time where they were adding seemingly like a billion dollars of run rate a day.

• 18:18John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 18:18Jordi Hays?

  And like the whole company, like when you're growing that quickly, like the whole company's.

• 18:22John Coogan?

  You would put money over God in that scenario, basically is what you're saying?

• 18:26Jordi Hays?

  Not saying I would.

• 18:27John Coogan?

  But, but, but, but it's reasonable to think that, that that was the calculation.

• 18:31Jordi Hays?

  Yeah. And they have a bunch of founders for a reason, right?

• 18:34John Coogan?

  Yeah. Oh, yeah. It is true. Uh, and, and Ola really does seem to be like the guy to send to this because he's actually really deeply engaged with this question. Um, how many people are actually paying for this AI thing? It's only 2% of US households pay for AI. This feels low. Co-founders Nick says, we live in an X bubble. Only 2% of US households pay for AI. Uh, 25% of households pay for Sirius XM. Have you ever subscribed to Sirius XM?

• 19:03Jordi Hays?

  I wonder how this gets counted.

• 19:05John Coogan?

  Because sometimes you buy a car and a company, right?

• 19:07Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 19:07John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 19:08Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 19:08John Coogan?

  Yep. And then maybe it rolls over or something, but.

• 19:10Jordi Hays?

  Well, I, I think they might be counting. I think it might be like sold in with the car.

• 19:14John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 19:14Jordi Hays?

  Cause that's user acquisition for Sirius XM.

• 19:16John Coogan?

  Sure.

• 19:17Jordi Hays?

  No one wants Sirius XM.

• 19:18John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 19:19Jordi Hays?

  And so they're thinking like, maybe if they try it, they'll, they'll stick around.

• 19:24John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 19:24Jordi Hays?

  And I'm sure to like, I've never activated the free Sirius XM.

• 19:27John Coogan?

  Yeah. And I wonder.

• 19:29Jordi Hays?

  When you activate it, you have to add a credit card. And so then it does roll over.

• 19:33John Coogan?

  Yeah. So maybe you need to go a little bit more like, uh, because 55% pay for cloud storage across probably Google, Dropbox, Box, et cetera. And, or I, I, iCloud. Um, and so I wonder if, does this include people who are on X premium accounts that includes Grok, right? Or like, if you have a Google account that is on a premium subscription and got you a little bit of Gemini, does that count in here? Like, there's a lot of bundling that's happening in.

• 20:05Jordi Hays?

  Sirius XM did around eight and a half billion of revenue last year. Currently trading, their, their market cap is around eight and a half billion.

• 20:13John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 20:13Jordi Hays?

  Um, and so, yeah, the business is, uh, generally on the way out, but, uh, relatively robust in the meantime.

• 20:23John Coogan?

  Um, where do you want to go next?

• 20:24Jordi Hays?

  Uh, there's some, there's some new, there's a new South Park episode that depicts a town infested with podcast obsessed billionaires. Jason over at This Week in Startups, uh, is saying, what?

• 20:37John Coogan?

  Did you watch it?

• 20:38Jordi Hays?

  It feels like it's made, made for him, made for all of us. I don't even know, when, when something goes out on TV, I don't usually know.

• 20:45John Coogan?

  Hard to find.

• 20:46Jordi Hays?

  I don't usually know how to.

• 20:47John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 20:48Jordi Hays?

  How to get access to it.

• 20:49John Coogan?

  It's funny. Yeah. That we're learning about this from like a Forbes article, but.

• 20:53Jordi Hays?

  Tyler, can you find out if it's, um, if it's out and if it's out, if you could watch it at like 10, 10x speed and then kind of report back in a few minutes and give us your review? Tesla stock jumps 5% on better than expected vehicle deliveries report. Uh, the delivery figure represented a 2% decline from a year earlier, but an unexpected increase from the prior period. Tesla's stock was down 21% for the year as of Thursday's close, trailing all of its mega tech, uh, mega cap tech peers. Okay. So I was not surprised to see this at all. I think that Tesla and the reason for that is purely anecdotal, purely vibe space

• 21:34Jordi Hays?

  analysis. Uh, I ordered a Tesla like two months ago and just got it this week.

• 21:42John Coogan?

  Yeah. It wasn't like it was sitting in lots.

• 21:44Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 21:44John Coogan?

  And, and, and there was, there were so many rumors of like, oh, all the cyber trucks are getting sold to SpaceX. It's this circular deal. There were pictures of like a lot that was filled with Teslas. Like they're not moving. And yet.

• 21:56Jordi Hays?

  Yeah. When I was, when I was ordering.

• 21:57John Coogan?

  Try and buy one and they'll be like, you have to wait six months.

• 21:59Jordi Hays?

  And when I was ordering mine.

• 22:00John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 22:01Jordi Hays?

  I was intentionally specking it to try to reduce the lead time. Like I.

• 22:05John Coogan?

  Oh, really?

• 22:06Jordi Hays?

  There's like, people online talk about like, if you spec it this way, or you get this, this version.

• 22:11John Coogan?

  What is there to spec?

• 22:12Jordi Hays?

  Cyberbeast or.

• 22:13John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 22:15Jordi Hays?

  But basically, there's like, there's less demand, there's still a lot of demand for the like.

• 22:19John Coogan?

  Cause there's only one color, right?

• 22:20Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 22:20John Coogan?

  There's no like, you can't get deviated stitching.

• 22:24Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, there, there's a bunch of like more minor things.

• 22:27John Coogan?

  Do they have a tailor made program?

• 22:28Jordi Hays?

  They should.

• 22:28John Coogan?

  They should.

• 22:29Jordi Hays?

  They should. But here's the thing.

• 22:30John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 22:31Jordi Hays?

  Uh, I had, uh, I had the experience this week of autopilot.

• 22:36John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 22:37Jordi Hays?

  It worked perfectly for like 50 minutes.

• 22:41John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 22:41Jordi Hays?

  And then I had to intervene.

• 22:42John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 22:43Jordi Hays?

  And going from the car driving itself to suddenly I have to drive my car in traffic is the most jarring, brutal experience because you realize how insane it is that we still all drive our cars.

• 22:56John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 22:57Jordi Hays?

  Like, once you try it, I don't think you can go back.

• 22:59John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 22:59Jordi Hays?

  Especially for, I've always loved driving. Like, I've never really like minded commutes.

• 23:04John Coogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 23:05Jordi Hays?

  Um, they're obviously great if you can avoid them, but I, even going on a 20 minute drive to get an errand is generally enjoyable for me.

• 23:14John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 23:14Jordi Hays?

  But when it comes to the daily commute, every single day, there's some amount of people that are experiencing autopilot for the first time.

• 23:21John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 23:21Jordi Hays?

  And it's the most viral experience because it is, it's the first like technology that I've tried that actually feels like life changing, especially if you're in the car for like 30 minutes a day.

• 23:32John Coogan?

  A hundred percent.

• 23:33Jordi Hays?

  Which a lot of people are. And it's the most viral thing because it's so magical.

• 23:36John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 23:37Jordi Hays?

  It feels like this thing that it, that, that we should have had for a long time, but it's here now and it works.

• 23:42John Coogan?

  Well, it was promised a decade ago.

• 23:44Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 23:44John Coogan?

  By a bunch of companies. Everyone was like level five by 2020.

• 23:48Jordi Hays?

  Yeah. And so it's here now and it works. And when you experience it, you tell all of your friends.

• 23:53John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 23:53Jordi Hays?

  And I think all these other auto manufacturers, if you rewind a year ago, everything that Elon had gone through with, with politics and facing competition overseas and, and more EVs coming online from, from a bunch of other manufacturers that are much better, they're much better built cars.

• 24:12John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 24:12Jordi Hays?

  Like, I am like incredibly, I'm incredibly happy with my Tesla. And at the same time, at the same time, I can look at it from like 20 feet away and point out a bunch of issues with the build. Every other auto manufacturer that sells cars primarily for utility is like way more in trouble than I think generally people are picking up on.

• 24:34John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 24:34Jordi Hays?

  And the reason for that is when we have anybody that's in the automotive space on the show, we ask them like, when do you think you're going to be able to get autonomous, self-driving working?

• 24:43John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 24:43Jordi Hays?

  And they all kind of like chuckle and laugh and you can tell it's like, like a seven, like, could be like seven years out.

• 24:49John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 24:50Jordi Hays?

  And they are so.

• 24:53John Coogan?

  Doug Emery used the word appliance. He's like, the, the Model 3 is the best appliance car. It's like, and DHH has talked about this where it's like, his Model Y is like the best appliance car, but then he wants something with a gas engine, a stick shift, three pedals. Like he wants something that's super engaging for driving.

• 25:11Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 25:11John Coogan?

  And then if he's not driving, he wants to be driven. And those are two separate categories now. And it's like, if you're an automaker, which one are you in? Oh, wait, uh, Skydance Paramount Warner Brothers Discovery has a new name. It's just Skydance?

• 25:24Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 25:24John Coogan?

  That's exciting. So David Ellison joined X for the first post ever, right?

• 25:30Jordi Hays?

  Let's watch the video.

• 25:31John Coogan?

  Let's watch the video. Let's throw it on. A movie about movies. Let's see what they got. Can you name any of these movies? What's this? Do you have any idea? Whoa, he knows. Ball. Look at this.

• 25:42Jordi Hays?

  I'm not going to be able to name anything.

• 25:43John Coogan?

  You don't know that one? You don't know that one? Oh, Ben's showing off now.

• 25:47Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, show off, Ben. Go off.

• 25:48John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 25:53John Coogan?

  Says, we have big goals for Skydance. We intend to pursue them with passion, imagination and willingness to take smart risks. At the same time, we'll honor what makes Paramount and Warner Brothers special, giving both studios the opportunity to grow, tell more great stories and bring those stories to even broader audiences around the world. Couldn't be more excited that what, about what we're going to build together.

• 26:14John Coogan?

  Very exciting.

• 26:21Jordi Hays?

  So is the actual app and platform going to be called Skydance?

• 26:24John Coogan?

  Yeah. Uh, well, the company, I think is going to merge into Skydance.

• 26:29Jordi Hays?

  But I, but I'm wondering, are they gonna, are they, is there a possibility in the future that we could get a Skydance Max?

• 26:34John Coogan?

  Yeah, I was thinking they, they, they should at least for a couple of months rename HBO's Skydance and then rename it back to HBO and then go back to Skydance BO and then back to HBO and then, and then HB Skydance and then back to HBO. Cause you gotta keep people guessing with that brand. Uh, it's not like everyone knows what HBO is.

• 26:52Jordi Hays?

  Putting, putting aside the debt load on the business, this bundle is extremely compelling.

• 27:00John Coogan?

  Totally.

• 27:01Jordi Hays?

  And, and, uh, I think like, this is a, it's, it's very disappointing for Netflix, I think, to see how all this has come together. Like, I think they can both, they obviously can both coexist and, and consumers will, will pay for both. But this combination of assets and IP is super compelling from live to, to news to, um.

• 27:23John Coogan?

  Like CBS has some of the like lower tier content that you can just throw out in the background, like the laundry television that Netflix has gotten so good at. Like CBS has that in the catalog. Like, there's a bunch of great shows that people can just watch and it's just serialized stuff. So it's not like it's just Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight that's on there. And that's the only crown jewel, although that is a very valuable crown jewel. They gotta bring Nolan back to Marvel. Or not Marvel, DC, DC. Because if they can reboot the DC universe with Nolan, bring him back for Superman, put everything together, let him run free, uh, the Dark Knight trilogy extended, uh, that would be fantastic.

• 28:03John Coogan?

  Although I think he might be, he might be done with, uh, with, with his video game era or his comic book era. Oh, Ben Affleck. Ben Affleck, uh, put out some, some, uh, uh, there's a video of him.

• 28:15Jordi Hays?

  Takes.

• 28:15John Coogan?

  We should, we should listen to this, uh.

• 28:17Speaker 02

  In order to be a video model that's successful, you just need a huge volume of video. Initially, it learns things like what is red, you know, uh, and then it learns more and more specific information. To get to the cinematic information, it's the sort of last stage. And in order to obtain that information, I was concerned that most of the models being used had trained on my peers, uh, people I know's work. And I was uncomfortable with that. And I thought, that's not really a viable business. So I sort of created that last layer, which was an understanding of cinema and cinematic components that did not need to be.

• 28:51Jordi Hays?

  And so how did you create the last layer without doing all of the, you know, essentially copying of what came before it?

• 28:57Speaker 02

  Because open models, uh, just like open, uh, language models, open video models are, um, available to be trained on. And so you just unfreeze the weights and you say, okay, just stock that step 8,631. Now here's step 8,632. So you could take existing open models that didn't work very well and that weren't cinematic, but that had just aggregated a bunch of social media footage or random video online and teach them to meet cinematic standards.

• 29:28Jordi Hays?

  Oh, so it's fine to train on our, our content, Ben, but not on your, your buddies? Make it make sense.

• 29:36John Coogan?

  I think he's kind of saying like, train on everything, right?

• 29:38Jordi Hays?

  No, no.

• 29:40John Coogan?

  He's describing what's actually going on.

• 29:42Speaker 02

  What you're doing to everybody to learn from, they retain the proprietary nature. In other words, they benefit from the learning that they're creating.

• 29:50John Coogan?

  This is funny. Ben Affleck. All right, gather around. So you want to freeze the base weights first, learning rate two, two E minus four. He's, he's, he's in the thick of it. Um, yeah, I remember a year ago, some, some, uh, AI lab, uh, founder was telling me like, yeah, he was like, I ran into Ben Affleck at some event and he, he used compute as a noun. And I was like, that's when I knew he was like dialed in.

• 30:15Jordi Hays?

  Yeah. When he went on Joe Rogan, everyone was like, oh, wow. He's a.

• 30:18John Coogan?

  Yeah, no, no, he's been, he's been deep in this. Ben Affleck reveals that seeing open AI models made him call Matt Damon and warned, we're finished before realizing its researchers knew little about how movies are made. So.

• 30:29Jordi Hays?

  We gotta talk about dot SI domains.

• 30:31John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 30:32Jordi Hays?

  So Hale says, get your dot SI domain people. Appreciate Rob, at Rob at at snagged for helping us lock it down.

• 30:40John Coogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 30:41Jordi Hays?

  And, uh, I'll start by saying Rob and the snag team are some of the fi, are the finest domain brokers I've ever worked with. Rob helped us get, uh, TVPN.com back in the day.

• 30:54John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 30:55Jordi Hays?

  And then I'll, I'll say next that, um, I don't think it's worth getting your S dot SI domain at all. I think, uh, super intelligence and trying to rebrand it is, uh, corny. And, uh, you should focus whatever energy you were going to put on getting a dot SI domain on just getting your dot com. But I would do it.

• 31:15John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 31:15Jordi Hays?

  I would do it with, I would do it with Rob. I think the whole scramble, like already dot AI domains are, are obviously inferior to dot coms in every single use case.

• 31:25John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 31:25Jordi Hays?

  And so using like the second tier version, the dot SI.

• 31:30John Coogan?

  Sure.

• 31:30Jordi Hays?

  Is, is, um, is even worse.

• 31:34John Coogan?

  I'm, I'm hearing sort of a pitch for like a third party candidate because of course Donald Trump came out and said, we need to be SI, super intelligence. And Gavin Newsom fought back and said, we gotta use AI. And you're saying dot com. So sort of a third party, just pure commercialization.

• 31:50Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 31:50John Coogan?

  What does com actually stand for? Commercial entity, right? It's great.

• 31:54Jordi Hays?

  That's a good question.

• 31:55John Coogan?

  That's not going anywhere. Yeah.

• 31:57Jordi Hays?

  Yeah. Commercial or company.

• 31:59John Coogan?

  Commercial or, or company.

• 32:00Jordi Hays?

  There we go.

• 32:01John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 32:01Jordi Hays?

  There we go.

• 32:02John Coogan?

  Yeah. We'll see you at 11 AM Pacific on Monday. Have a great weekend. Have the best weekend ever.

• 32:09Jordi Hays?

  Of your life.

• 32:09John Coogan?

  Of your life.

• 32:10Jordi Hays?

  It's possible. A lot of people go into the weekend.

• 32:12John Coogan?

  Podcast on Spotify. Sign up for our newsletter, TVPN.com and we will see you on Monday. Goodbye.

• 32:19Jordi Hays?

  We love you.