Stephen Graham

This episode is absolute gold! Joining us for lunch this week it's the wonderful Stephen Graham! Stephen came over for a slightly chaotic brunch where I made a Meera Sodha gochujang & cheddar cornbread with bacon and eggs, and mum made a raspberry & blueberry tiramisu that sadly ended up on the kitchen floor… We heard all about Stephen growing up in Kirkby, his nana’s legendary Scouse, his childhood breakdancing crew, and the very romantic story of how he finally told his wife Hannah he loved her at New Cross station after five years of friendship (with benefits). Stephen also spoke beautifully about fatherhood, and the phenomenal success of Adolescence, plus we hear about his meetings with Bruce Springsteen, his love of meditation, and the exciting news that he’s reuniting with Leonardo DiCaprio for Heat 2! Stephen, thank you for being so open, warm and for embracing the absolute chaos in the kitchen! Letters to Our Sons is out now and you can watch Stephen in Nocturne on Apple TV from the 30th October. Listen & watch Table Manners here - https://tablemanners.komi.io/ Follow Table Manners on: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tablemannerspodcast/ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@tablemannerspodcast Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/tablemannerspodcast YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@TableMannersPodcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Jessie Ware?

  Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and Lenny's just Shushing.

• 0:08Speaker 01

  Shushing darling.

• 0:09Jessie Ware?

  Looks great. We had a lovely weekend, didn't we? We went to, we had Rocha Shauna, which was gorgeous. Yeah. Shunatova and we also had Paddington on Sunday.

• 0:21Speaker 01

  I'm into Marmalade now.

• 0:24Speaker 01

  Marmalade.

• 0:26Jessie Ware?

  Respect. Tom Fletcher, you did it. Those songs are catchy as anything. It was so gorgeous.

• 0:32Speaker 01

  Bonnie Langford.

• 0:34Jessie Ware?

  Oh, was it Bonnie Langford?

• 0:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:35Jessie Ware?

  With the leg split.

• 0:36Speaker 01

  This is good. Yeah.

• 0:38Jessie Ware?

  She was very good.

• 0:38Speaker 01

  That's why everyone was so thrilled.

• 0:41Jessie Ware?

  She was very good. I really loved it. Go and see it. I mean, it's a pricey ticket, but dare I say, worth it? I think so. It was amazing.

• 0:51Speaker 01

  And the wonderful Paddington.

• 0:53Jessie Ware?

  Oh.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  Just gorgeous. I love the way the eyes moved when he was sad.

• 0:58Jessie Ware?

  I know. I want to know how the lady inside was doing it all.

• 1:01Speaker 01

  I know. His eyes just went so sad.

• 1:03Jessie Ware?

  It was gorgeous. But enough talking about other people's brilliant acting. We have one of the greatest actors of our time in my kitchen in a minute. It's Stephen Graham, you will know from whether you've watched Snatch or This is England.

• 1:17Speaker 01

  Line of Duty.

• 1:18Jessie Ware?

  Line of Duty, Band of Brothers, the dad in the Matilda musical.

• 1:22Speaker 01

  The Blow the

• 1:24Jessie Ware?

  A Thousand Blows.

• 1:25Speaker 01

  Thousand Blows.

• 1:25Jessie Ware?

  That was on Disney. Help, the one about Covid.

• 1:29Speaker 01

  Father of Bruce Springsteen.

• 1:31Jessie Ware?

  Oh, I mean, he's played everyone. And of course, Adolescence, which was this huge hit. What's been borne out of it is huge discussions. It's now in every school, I think, as learning material. And also, he's written a book which was inspired by these tough conversations that maybe weren't being had. It's called Letters to Our Sons and it's a collection of letters from different men to their sons. And it's a really interesting, beautiful read. Saw Riz Ahmed's on in there. Yeah.

• 2:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. But lots of them are anonymous.

• 2:03Jessie Ware?

  Lots of them are anonymous. It reminds us a bit of when Gillian Anderson came on this podcast and did a whole collection of essays and letters about want and desire. It's really, really brilliant. But also, he's coming on to talk about Nocturne, which is released on Apple TV on the 30th of October. Liv Schreiber's in it.

• 2:22Speaker 01

  It's amazing cast.

• 2:23Jessie Ware?

  It's incredibly dark. It's also really gripping and brilliant. And I feel like everyone's going to be watching it and talking about it. He plays

• 2:30Speaker 01

  The lame man.

• 2:32Jessie Ware?

  who is in a, what do you call it when it's high?

• 2:36Speaker 01

  High security.

• 2:37Jessie Ware?

  It's high security. He's not, he's a prisoner who is, well, you know what? I'll let him talk about it. He plays a really dark character, Cal Supriess, but he is very good at it.

• 2:48Speaker 01

  But I always feel he's got such warmth in everything he plays.

• 2:51Jessie Ware?

  He's got very kind eyes, doesn't he?

• 2:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's kind and I don't know if it's because of that Scouse in him, but he's always very endearing and very engaging. Darling, what, what have you made for him? Because it's a funny

• 3:02Jessie Ware?

  It's kind of brunch. So I've made from Mira Sodas book dinner.

• 3:08Speaker 01

  You've not made dinner, darling.

• 3:10Jessie Ware?

  I haven't made dinner, but it's from Mira Sodas book dinner. It's the cheddar and gotcha chang cornbread that we're going to have with a pickled sweet corn on top. And then we're going to have fried eggs and bacon with it and sour cream and some avocado. Does that sound all right?

• 3:30Speaker 01

  Fabulous. You're going for it, darling.

• 3:32Jessie Ware?

  I don't know. I feel like this is a bit of a showstopper. I'm so bad with baking. I hope it's okay. So, but I know it tasted good. The batter tasted amazing. So I feel like that would be quite delicious. Fried egg. So yeah, and then you've made pudding.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:46Jessie Ware?

  What have you made?

• 3:47Speaker 01

  Well, I've made a kind of blueberry and raspberry tiramisu.

• 3:52Jessie Ware?

  Can't go wrong. It's like cream.

• 3:53Speaker 01

  Let's see what it's like.

• 3:55Jessie Ware?

  Ladies' fingers.

• 3:56Speaker 01

  Ladies' fingers, only one little thing and then mascarpone with egg. And I put blueberries through the whole thing and then blueberries and raspberries on top.

• 4:07Jessie Ware?

  That sounds great.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  Be nice for a little taste.

• 4:09Jessie Ware?

  Stephen Graham coming up on Table Manners.

• 4:18Jessie Ware?

  Stephen Graham.

• 4:19Speaker 02

  Hello.

• 4:19Jessie Ware?

  So excited to have you.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  Gracing our table. We're so happy.

• 4:25Speaker 02

  I'm very nervous actually.

• 4:26Jessie Ware?

  Oh, shut up.

• 4:27Speaker 01

  What are you nervous about?

• 4:28Speaker 02

  Because my missus adores you too massively.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  Obviously, yeah.

• 4:32Speaker 02

  Honestly.

• 4:33Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 4:33Speaker 02

  And I've seen some stuff as well. So, and I'm always a bit nervous at these things that are slightly.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  No, we don't hijack anyone. We just chat.

• 4:41Jessie Ware?

  The only thing you need to be nervous about is if you get a bit of coriander in your teeth and I've got you. So don't worry.

• 4:45Speaker 02

  You've got me.

• 4:46Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 4:46Speaker 01

  Have you got coriander in your food today?

• 4:49Jessie Ware?

  Sorry, is that okay? Do you hate coriander? Are you one of those people that hates coriander?

• 4:52Speaker 02

  Have you got coriander in there or?

• 4:53Jessie Ware?

  Not yet. You hate it. My God, my God, we talked. You were so polite though. You were going to go with it.

• 5:01Speaker 02

  If I, yeah.

• 5:02Jessie Ware?

  It's not in yet.

• 5:03Speaker 02

  Okay, well, can we, can we swerve the coriander?

• 5:06Jessie Ware?

  It's right there.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  No, do not do it.

• 5:07Jessie Ware?

  Do you have, you have the thing then that

• 5:09Speaker 02

  I just think it's like soap.

• 5:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, you've got it then.

• 5:12Jessie Ware?

  You know this is a thing.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  It's a thing that people, some people really, it reacts in their body and it tastes like soap.

• 5:20Jessie Ware?

  Not that you just Anto's got it too.

• 5:22Speaker 01

  It's not that you just don't like it. It, it makes it taste all

• 5:25Jessie Ware?

  She calls it the devil's herb.

• 5:27Speaker 02

  The devil's herb.

• 5:28Jessie Ware?

  Yeah. So you've got that too.

• 5:30Speaker 02

  I do, yeah.

• 5:31Jessie Ware?

  It's actually a medical condition. So it's fine. Yeah. You can be like, I'm so sorry, I'm intolerant to

• 5:35Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 5:36Jessie Ware?

  To coriander.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  You mean like gluten free?

• 5:38Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, they go, any intolerances, any, you can't coriander, actually.

• 5:42Speaker 02

  Okay. Yeah. No, I can't stand it.

• 5:44Jessie Ware?

  God, I didn't put it in.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  Neither does Grace and Alfie. They can't stand it neither.

• 5:46Jessie Ware?

  Really? Are those your kids?

• 5:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:48Jessie Ware?

  Right, okay.

• 5:48Speaker 02

  They can't stand it.

• 5:49Jessie Ware?

  How old are they?

• 5:50Speaker 02

  Grace is 21 and Alfie was 20 a couple of weeks ago.

• 5:53Speaker 01

  She's gorgeous as well. Both of them are so good looking.

• 5:55Jessie Ware?

  How are you looking at his children?

• 5:57Speaker 01

  I've looked at pictures of them when they were at an award ceremony, looking proud.

• 6:01Jessie Ware?

  No, to be fair, I'm off the old Insta now, but I did see a fantastic bit where you're doing your dance thing. You're an amazing dancer.

• 6:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, me and Alfie just messing about. He always gets me to do these silly things.

• 6:13Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, but like you used to dance when you were younger, right?

• 6:15Speaker 02

  I was a break dancer.

• 6:16Jessie Ware?

  Okay, yeah.

• 6:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, in the townie.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  Oh my God, could you do it on like on your head?

• 6:20Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no. Once, oh no, I could, yeah.

• 6:22Jessie Ware?

  You could.

• 6:23Speaker 02

  I thought you was going to ask me to do it. Now there's no chance.

• 6:25Jessie Ware?

  Don't worry.

• 6:25Speaker 02

  I'll pull it up or something. Do you know what I mean? I'm very old now. No, when I was a kid, we, we had a little break dancing crew. And my mum never used to know, but we were in the townie. We used to go to townie with our ghetto blaster and some, some lino and throw it down and just press play. And, and you'd get a couple of quid, do you know what I mean, between us? So.

• 6:45Jessie Ware?

  What was like your showstopper?

• 6:48Speaker 02

  Well, it was two amazing dancers called Darren Ailey and Justin Henry.

• 6:52Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 6:52Speaker 02

  And they were like phenomenal. And they taught me a little bit of it.

• 6:55Jessie Ware?

  I mean, I, just do that for me. You can do that.

• 6:58Speaker 02

  It was just that little bit of it, yeah.

• 6:59Jessie Ware?

  It's really good, Stephen.

• 7:00Speaker 02

  So I learnt from them and our Alan was in the crew and everything. And we, we were called the Kirby Braishers.

• 7:06Jessie Ware?

  The Kirby Braishers.

• 7:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, back in the day.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  Where are you exactly from?

• 7:11Speaker 02

  Kirby.

• 7:12Speaker 01

  Kirby, yeah.

• 7:13Speaker 02

  Kirby, yeah. Just, it's a little town.

• 7:16Jessie Ware?

  I thought it was because you were street dancing outside. So you were on the curbs?

• 7:21Speaker 01

  No, Kirby is a place up in the

• 7:23Speaker 02

  That works. Yeah, I like that. That works.

• 7:25Speaker 01

  So can you still be a Scouser if you're from Kirby?

• 7:27Speaker 02

  Well, we are Scousers, yeah.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  Oh, you're the proper Scousers. Oh, okay.

• 7:30Speaker 02

  Technically, look, we're like 30 minutes away from the centre of town. But what Kirby is, is Kirby's a little place where when me nana and all them back in the day, they used to live off Scotty Road. And they got sent. Well, you had to apply to go to Kirby because it was like, oh, everywhere's green and lovely. No one, it would become overcrowded. So they sent them out to them areas. And that's where I was born and raised, Kirby.

• 7:52Jessie Ware?

  Well, let's take it back to then. Can you give us a memorable dish from your childhood and tell us who was round the dinner table?

• 7:58Speaker 02

  Okay, so a memorable dish from my childhood is going to have to be a pan of Scouse.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  I was, knew you were going to say that.

• 8:06Speaker 02

  You knew I was going to say it.

• 8:07Speaker 01

  You know what it is. It's stew.

• 8:09Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 8:10Speaker 02

  It's stew, but it comes from Lap Scouse, which traditionally, I think, if I've got it right, I know people think that it's kind of an Irish stew, which it is basically, but it comes from the sailors.

• 8:22Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 8:23Speaker 02

  I think over in Norway, something like that. But then it was, because Liverpool was a massive dock area, wasn't it? And I think it was brought over from then. I think, please, if I've got it wrong, someone will tell me. But that's what it is, Scouse. And it's basically stew and steak.

• 8:37Jessie Ware?

  Stew and steak.

• 8:39Speaker 02

  Stew and steak.

• 8:40Jessie Ware?

  Sorry.

• 8:41Speaker 02

  Sorry. Stew and steak. It's my accent. Stew and steak, that's in the pan for hours.

• 8:46Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 8:47Speaker 02

  Like hours.

• 8:47Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 8:48Speaker 02

  And then it's potatoes, carrots, turnip. And that's basically it.

• 8:55Speaker 01

  It's the barley in it.

• 8:56Speaker 02

  No.

• 8:57Jessie Ware?

  No.

• 8:57Speaker 02

  No.

• 8:58Jessie Ware?

  What are you eating it with?

• 9:00Speaker 02

  We have it with bread.

• 9:01Jessie Ware?

  Oh, bread.

• 9:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:02Jessie Ware?

  Okay, nice.

• 9:03Speaker 02

  Well, you can put others, it's sacrilege, but you can put other stuff in it. Because our Vera used to make a gorgeous one. Our Vera Scouse was the best.

• 9:10Jessie Ware?

  Who's Vera?

• 9:11Speaker 02

  Vera was me auntie Vera, God bless her. And then you'd have it with like, what's, what's the, what's the red cabbage stuff?

• 9:18Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 9:19Speaker 02

  Pickled cabbage.

• 9:19Speaker 01

  Pickled cabbage. Oh, I love that.

• 9:21Speaker 02

  Or beetroot.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  Oh, beetroot from the jar.

• 9:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, from the jar. Exactly.

• 9:26Jessie Ware?

  Delicious.

• 9:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was gorgeous.

• 9:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, a bit of sharp with it.

• 9:29Speaker 02

  So now today we have it, but you know, occasionally I'll make it, but make it with some mushrooms and things.

• 9:34Jessie Ware?

  Do you make it?

• 9:35Speaker 02

  I can, I was taught how to make it quite properly, yeah.

• 9:39Jessie Ware?

  By Vera?

• 9:40Speaker 02

  By Vera and me ma. Me ma, me ma was a good cook, but our Vera Scouse was the best. But then me nana's was the best.

• 9:47Speaker 01

  Was your mum from Liverpool?

• 9:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, they're all from Liverpool. They were all, my mum's mother was from Irish descent and her dad was from Scotland.

• 9:56Speaker 01

  And where's your dad from?

• 9:58Speaker 02

  My biological father is, his dad was from Jamaica and I think his mum was from, I think their history goes back to Norway. So I'm a ton of bread mother.

• 10:08Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 10:09Speaker 02

  That's what I think.

• 10:09Speaker 01

  Have you done your DNA?

• 10:11Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, I did. Yeah, yeah, it's a bit mental.

• 10:14Speaker 01

  Is it?

• 10:14Speaker 02

  I can't remember all the bits and mottos.

• 10:15Speaker 01

  But you've got a lot of.

• 10:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's like, yeah, from all over the place.

• 10:19Speaker 01

  All over the place.

• 10:20Speaker 02

  Massively Irish, a big chunk, most of it's Irish, a little bit of Scottish, and then a lot of African. I think it was something like twenty one percent African, I think, or twenty percent African. It's a shame, Hannah, isn't it, because she knows all them details and she can fill it all in.

• 10:36Jessie Ware?

  That's your wife.

• 10:36Speaker 02

  That's the boss.

• 10:37Speaker 01

  And where was your stepdad from?

• 10:40Speaker 02

  Um, his father was from Africa.

• 10:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:43Speaker 02

  Um, and but obviously like second generation or third generation in Liverpool. So Pops' dad was also from, you know, he, he was black and Pops is mixed race as well.

• 10:52Jessie Ware?

  So who was round the dinner table? You have, do you have two brothers?

• 10:56Speaker 02

  Well, back in the day, it would have been me and me mum when I, because me nana, my nana passed away when I was fourteen. So a lot of the time it was food at me nana's house. Um, and me and me mum lived at me nana's for a while. But me nana used to, it sort of be like, the other thing with me nana's was, me nana's was like the haven. Do you know what I mean? It was the base where everyone come and she'd just make masses of food. She, the best thing as well she used to make was them, what are they called? Them, these shit, like ribs, but they, you put them in a pan. You put them in them, remember them pressure cooker things?

• 11:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  You put the ribs in it, bacon back ribs.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  Bacon back ribs.

• 11:30Speaker 02

  Like big strips of them.

• 11:31Speaker 01

  Oh, right. And then you get them really soft and then it all fall off the bone. Yeah.

• 11:35Speaker 02

  So you'd have that with mash and peas.

• 11:38Speaker 01

  Uh, how delicious.

• 11:39Speaker 02

  It was gorgeous. But that smell, I just remember that smell in me nana's kitchen all the time.

• 11:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:45Speaker 02

  That reminds me very much of me. That salty kind of bacon smell.

• 11:49Speaker 01

  Salty bacon. And so.

• 11:50Jessie Ware?

  Okay, by the way, I'm just gonna be over there finishing off because I know he's hungry.

• 11:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:55Jessie Ware?

  So you keep on asking the questions.

• 11:56Speaker 01

  I will keep on asking.

• 11:57Jessie Ware?

  Also, your mum was a social worker, wasn't she?

• 11:59Speaker 02

  Yes, she was, yeah.

• 12:00Speaker 01

  So his mum, I'm a social worker, yeah. Well, I'm a bit old now. I just do odds and ends. What did your, who did your mum work with?

• 12:07Speaker 02

  My mum started off as a, we went away, we went to Holland for a little bit, me and me mum, when it was just me and me mum, um.

• 12:13Speaker 01

  What, to live?

• 12:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, we went there for a while. She went to study over there for a little bit and I think she did some Montessori stuff as well when she was over there. And we lived in a place called Den Bosch, just outside, uh, Amsterdam. We were there for, I think we were there for a year and a half.

• 12:29Speaker 01

  How interesting.

• 12:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was wonderful. It was really wonderful. And we did, we lived there for, for a while and embraced the culture and, and the people. I used to be able to speak. Look, my nickname when I, in where I'm from in Kirby, a lot of people know me as Dutchy.

• 12:44Speaker 01

  Dutchy? Oh, because you went to live in Holland.

• 12:47Speaker 02

  To live in Holland. Me mate David McManus' name was, I came back home and went back to school and he went, where have you been? I was like, oh, we were over in Holland. And he was like, Dutchy. And then that was my nickname.

• 12:56Jessie Ware?

  Did everyone sing Pass the Dutchy?

• 12:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, I got that quite a lot, yeah, which is very apt, you know what I mean? It's a banger, isn't it? Yeah, it's an absolute banger. So we came out and my mum was a nursery nurse. She worked in a council farm. And she trained and trained and trained and then, you know, eventually she became a social worker.

• 13:12Speaker 01

  Which football team do you support?

• 13:14Speaker 02

  Liverpool.

• 13:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, even though you've been to Holland, you've got Norway, you've got all different bits involved.

• 13:21Jessie Ware?

  And mum, the sad thing is you can't say shit because we're so shit at the moment. You can't even come back with anything.

• 13:26Speaker 01

  Man you, I come from Manchester. Do you ever go to football matches?

• 13:30Speaker 02

  When I get a chance, yeah. Um.

• 13:31Speaker 01

  I bet they give you like VIP, you sit in the director's box.

• 13:35Speaker 02

  No, it's very nice.

• 13:36Speaker 01

  And people all bow to you.

• 13:37Speaker 02

  No, no, don't be ridiculous. Um, they, they look after us. We get to go in the, in the Legends Lounge. So I've been, I've been very fortunate to meet John Barnes, who's an absolute icon, yeah. He's one of my heroes, still is one of my heroes. So I get to take the family, which is lovely.

• 13:54Speaker 01

  But you live in, you don't, you live in Leicestershire?

• 13:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, we live in Leicestershire.

• 13:58Speaker 01

  Why?

• 13:58Speaker 02

  Well, Hannah's originally from Leicestershire.

• 14:01Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 14:01Speaker 02

  So when we were, we used to live in Beckenham.

• 14:04Speaker 01

  You did, huh?

• 14:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, we used to live in Beckenham. They're always, um, we actually lived in what was then called Penj, but I believe now it's Posh.

• 14:11Speaker 01

  Oh, Posh, oh, Posh.

• 14:13Speaker 02

  Changed, gone a little bit upmarket.

• 14:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:15Speaker 02

  Uh, we lived there for a long time.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  Why?

• 14:19Speaker 02

  Well, we met, we met in London years ago, the two of us. We met at drama school. We met thirty three years ago.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 14:27Speaker 02

  Um, and usually this is New Cross area, isn't it?

• 14:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:30Speaker 02

  So I've got a little bit of a, when, look, we were, um, what's a nice way of, so we were friends with Lovely Benefits.

• 14:38Speaker 01

  Why didn't you want to commit either of you?

• 14:40Speaker 02

  Because I was shit at that time.

• 14:42Speaker 01

  Oh, you were shit at commitment?

• 14:44Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 14:44Speaker 01

  Okay, fine.

• 14:45Speaker 02

  I had commitment issues and it was just one of them things, you know, and, and look, we were both young. We were only, I was twenty, she was nineteen, um, and I'd recently just moved from home, um.

• 14:58Speaker 01

  So you didn't want to commit to?

• 15:00Speaker 02

  No, but then what happened was she went to Spain.

• 15:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:04Speaker 02

  And she was there for a little bit and then she met this fella.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. That's so, that clarified things for you.

• 15:12Jessie Ware?

  This anger that comes out in some of your characters, is this from, is this from this Spanish bloke?

• 15:18Speaker 02

  She met this fella called Paco.

• 15:20Speaker 01

  Paco?

• 15:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, very Spanish, isn't it?

• 15:23Speaker 01

  Very Spanish.

• 15:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. Uh, and so she'd gone for a while.

• 15:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:28Speaker 02

  And then she came back and, look, we'd never been on a proper date.

• 15:33Jessie Ware?

  You just shagged?

• 15:34Speaker 02

  Well, no, no, it was deep conversation, Jessica.

• 15:37Jessie Ware?

  Post-coital combo.

• 15:39Speaker 02

  But, you know, one of them ones where you don't really know what you're in until it's gone?

• 15:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:45Speaker 02

  So that's what happened to me.

• 15:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:47Speaker 02

  And when she came back, I was like, so what's been going on? And then she said, look, I'm gonna move to Spain.

• 15:53Jessie Ware?

  Oh, for Paco?

• 15:54Speaker 02

  See, yeah, exactly. See, exactly. See? So I was like, what do you mean? And she said, I've met this fella called Paco and I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna live in Spain. And I was like, why? And she was like, well, there's not an ear, is there really? And I was like,

• 16:09Speaker 02

  can I take her out on a date? And she was like, what? And all that time, we'd never been on a date. So the first time we went.

• 16:15Speaker 01

  Where did you take her?

• 16:16Speaker 02

  We went, we went to New Cross.

• 16:18Speaker 01

  On a date?

• 16:19Speaker 02

  Well, let me finish. No, we went to pitches. We went to watch Shaving Private Ryan. And then there was a little restaurant across the road.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  Cool.

• 16:29Speaker 02

  I can't remember what it was called. It was like, I think it was.

• 16:31Jessie Ware?

  Where was the cinema? Did you go to Greenwich Picture House or?

• 16:35Speaker 01

  No.

• 16:36Speaker 02

  No, because then we walked, no, we must have gone, no, you're right. Yeah, we were in Greenwich, weren't we? And then we, but then we got a train. Anyway, long story, we ended up at New Cross Station.

• 16:46Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 16:46Speaker 02

  Right? And we're there. And don't forget, she's going in two days. So my arse went and I was like, I've gotta try and pull this out of the bag somehow. And then, and then I did, I don't know where it came from, but I just went, I love you.

• 17:01Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 17:02Speaker 02

  And we were at New Cross Train Station and she went, I've been waiting five years for you to say that.

• 17:07Jessie Ware?

  You were shagging her for five years and you didn't take her on a date? Stephen, that's outrageous. Outrageous.

• 17:12Speaker 02

  I was, no, well, we, we.

• 17:14Speaker 01

  She was patient.

• 17:15Speaker 02

  And, yeah, thank you.

• 17:17Jessie Ware?

  She knew you loved her, though. She knew she, she just needed you to realise it.

• 17:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, basically.

• 17:22Jessie Ware?

  Oh, no, it's a good story. It's a good story.

• 17:25Speaker 02

  So then I told her and she said, I've been waiting five years. And then she never went to Spain. And within three days, then we moved in together.

• 17:34Speaker 01

  I'm sure there's a TV series that could be made about your relationship.

• 17:38Speaker 02

  And do you know what? Um, one time she bought me this little, this little, like a plaque, uh, which said New Cross Train Station on it.

• 17:46Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 17:47Jessie Ware?

  She should be here.

• 17:48Speaker 02

  I know she should be. And I told her she should have come, but she's mad busy.

• 17:52Speaker 01

  What happened to Paco?

• 17:54Speaker 02

  I don't give a fuck.

• 17:57Speaker 02

  Paco's loss is my game. Paco got packed off, yeah, thankfully. Um, and then, you know, you have your trials and tribulations in every relationship, don't you?

• 18:07Speaker 01

  You've not played any real romantic leads, have you?

• 18:11Speaker 02

  No, I haven't.

• 18:12Speaker 01

  Do you think you could?

• 18:13Speaker 02

  No.

• 18:13Speaker 01

  I think you could.

• 18:14Speaker 02

  I don't see myself as a romantic lead.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  Don't you?

• 18:17Speaker 02

  No.

• 18:17Speaker 01

  Oh, I do. Those gorgeous eyes and that lovely smile. I think that's why we, because some of the parts you play, oh.

• 18:27Speaker 02

  That's all right. We've got a fire alarm. Oh, the whole thing's going off.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  Oh, Jesus.

• 18:31Speaker 02

  She's burned the basin. Pressure.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  Oh, it's pressure.

• 18:36Speaker 02

  It's pressure, look, it's pressure. It is like boiling point.

• 18:39Speaker 01

  This is like boiling point.

• 18:41Speaker 02

  Can we get a shot of that, please? Can we see this? Can we see this manicness?

• 18:45Speaker 01

  Jessie.

• 18:49Speaker 02

  It's messy. It's all right, love. Don't worry.

• 18:57Speaker 02

  Did I do a meditation this morning?

• 18:59Speaker 01

  Oh, my canal, yeah.

• 19:01Jessie Ware?

  Oh, sorry.

• 19:02Speaker 02

  You just swore.

• 19:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:03Jessie Ware?

  So, we swear a lot. I'm so sorry, though. That is fucking certain.

• 19:06Speaker 01

  Jesus. Did you like doing Boiling Point?

• 19:09Speaker 02

  I did, yeah.

• 19:10Speaker 01

  It was such a good series.

• 19:12Speaker 02

  Thank you very much. It was a wonderful experience.

• 19:14Speaker 01

  It was so wonderful. And I love the second one where she takes over.

• 19:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. And you're in depression.

• 19:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, he's, yeah.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  Not well.

• 19:23Speaker 02

  No, not well at all. He kind of, he relapsed and stuff, so.

• 19:27Speaker 01

  Could you do another one?

• 19:29Speaker 02

  Well.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  Cause yours was like the precursor to the bear.

• 19:32Speaker 02

  That's, yeah, that's exactly what we thought, you know what I mean? And it was, I, I think the first series, we did the film, which was a wonderful experience. Um, and then we did a little series, which was on the BBC. And I think it went, it was received really well.

• 19:47Speaker 01

  It was fabulous.

• 19:48Speaker 02

  And it was one of those kind of things where, you know, it was, it was a kind of working class drama. But I, I think, and I'm, and I'm not being disrespectful. I think today, you know, those kind of things, maybe the BBC and the studios don't really want that kind of social realism.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  Why?

• 20:06Speaker 02

  Well, I don't know. It's, it's, if you look at it more, there's not many kind of working class dramas that are on today that you can really identify with.

• 20:17Speaker 01

  Well, you're in the mall, if there any, if there are any.

• 20:20Speaker 02

  That's, that's been my kind of, you know, um, that, that's been the.

• 20:24Speaker 01

  Time.

• 20:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. That was, that was wonderful to do. That's been my bread and butter. That's the kind of, when I was a kid, you know, alls I ever wanted to do was to be in something like that. My aim and my ambition when I was, when I was younger was to, I really wanted to be in a Jimmy McGovern piece. So for me, to be in time, um, was just, was just an absolute gift. Do you know what I mean?

• 20:47Speaker 01

  I loved you in Line of Duty.

• 20:49Speaker 02

  Well, thank you very much. That was a lot of fun to do.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  What was it? Corbett?

• 20:52Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, yeah.

• 20:53Speaker 01

  And, yeah, it was great.

• 20:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that was great to work with. I, I never really got to work much with Vicky. Um, and my newer, really close friends, and I think Vicky's phenomenal in that. She's a wonderful actress.

• 21:04Speaker 01

  She is.

• 21:05Speaker 02

  She's brilliant, isn't she? She's just such, she's got such a wonderful heart as well, Vicky. And I never really got a chance to work with her in that, but that's why I love doing This is England. That was a gift as well.

• 21:15Speaker 01

  Amazing.

• 21:16Speaker 02

  Do you know what I mean? It was a real gift.

• 21:17Speaker 01

  I loved, Vicky won an award last week at the NTA.

• 21:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:21Speaker 01

  For Trigger Point. And she mentioned that it was a wonderful tribute to working class actors.

• 21:28Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 21:28Speaker 01

  Which I think was a very, it was very important to say, I think.

• 21:32Speaker 02

  It's very important to say that because I do feel we're not making enough stories about, you know, the majority of their audience, I think, who are people from working class backgrounds. Unless, and I'm not being disrespectful, unless it's kind of gangsters or, do you know what I mean? Yeah, or soaps, which soaps are integral. You know, so I, I used to watch Coronation Street in East London all the time. Yeah, yeah, back in the day.

• 21:55Speaker 01

  Were you surprised at the success of Adolescence?

• 21:59Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 22:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:02Speaker 01

  How did it start, the whole premise?

• 22:04Speaker 02

  It was, it was actually off the back of, um, Boiling Point.

• 22:09Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 22:10Speaker 02

  We made Boiling Point and then that, you know.

• 22:12Jessie Ware?

  Because of the one take?

• 22:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, because of that one take concept, which was an idea from Matt, our wonderful D O P, um, and Phil, the director. So it was kind of one of those little beautiful, sedentipitous moments where you start off, it was a favour really for Phil. We made a short.

• 22:30Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 22:31Speaker 02

  And I was like, and he said, look, will you, and I was like, oh, go and make one yourself first and then we'll see. And he did. He went and made a beautiful little short. And then he had, he said, look, I've got this idea with Matt, the wonderful D O P who I've been working with, we were thinking of making a short, which would be one take, twenty-two minutes, all set in a kitchen, about a chef. And I said, I think that idea sounds fantastic. So then what we did was we made the short, um, and originally the short was just to get him an opportunity to show agents what he could do. So we, cause he wanted to be a director and it was like, all right, well, let's, let's make this. And, and I sent it to my agent, Jane, the wonderful Jane.

• 23:11Speaker 02

  Um, and she put it around the office and within two days, he sat down, he was having a meeting with an agent. And then his agent said, why don't you turn it into a feature? So we did. And again, very low budget. Wow.

• 23:23Jessie Ware?

  Oh, well, you've got no coriander, don't worry.

• 23:26Speaker 02

  Wow, look at that, with a fried egg as well. Well.

• 23:29Jessie Ware?

  I hope it's not too wobbly, the fried egg. It's over, it's, it's.

• 23:33Speaker 02

  No, I love an egg like that, yeah.

• 23:34Jessie Ware?

  Okay, fine.

• 23:35Speaker 02

  Have you got any Tabasco sauce?

• 23:37Jessie Ware?

  Well, do you want to fucking try it first?

• 23:39Speaker 01

  No, he wants hot sauce, Jeff.

• 23:40Speaker 02

  This is the Penguin, Hannah. No, no, Hannah says the same.

• 23:43Jessie Ware?

  I'm gonna have a word with your wife. You're gonna have all the condiments, Stephen. Right.

• 23:47Speaker 02

  Really sorry.

• 23:47Speaker 01

  Do you love spice? Oh my goodness. So it's hot sauce on everything?

• 23:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:53Speaker 01

  And which is your?

• 23:54Speaker 02

  Chili flakes.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  And chili flakes.

• 23:56Jessie Ware?

  Do you like the crispy chili and oil?

• 23:58Speaker 02

  Oh, I don't know.

• 23:59Jessie Ware?

  Okay, you can have a bit of that. There's in Kona there.

• 24:01Speaker 02

  I like in Kona. In Kona's good.

• 24:02Speaker 01

  Is that your go-to?

• 24:04Speaker 02

  This is, this is very good. We've got one at home. I can't remember what it is, but it's a real spicy one, like a Jamaican one, which has got a proper kick to it.

• 24:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:12Speaker 02

  But Tabasco's always sweet.

• 24:14Jessie Ware?

  Hold on a minute.

• 24:15Speaker 02

  Um, and I smothered everything in pepper as well. I'm sorry.

• 24:19Jessie Ware?

  I'm sorry. I'm, I'm on like my last peppercorns.

• 24:23Speaker 01

  Oh, Jessica. Is that my pudding?

• 24:26Jessie Ware?

  What's the pudding?

• 24:28Speaker 01

  Oh, Jessie.

• 24:29Jessie Ware?

  I just love it. Hang on.

• 24:36Speaker 02

  I feel like I'm in a press. What's going on?

• 24:41Jessie Ware?

  I, I'm really sorry.

• 24:42Speaker 02

  It's okay. We can work around it.

• 24:44Jessie Ware?

  We're not fucking eating. I'm so sorry, Mum.

• 24:46Speaker 02

  We can work around it.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  Only took me a nap last night when I came back from dinner.

• 24:50Jessie Ware?

  I just got a bad hip.

• 24:51Speaker 01

  And I've got a bad hip.

• 24:52Speaker 02

  No way.

• 24:53Jessie Ware?

  I didn't put it in there, by the way. Yeah, no, it's, yeah, it's not. It's, it's a goner. I do have ice cream.

• 25:00Speaker 02

  Can you just tell me what it was?

• 25:01Speaker 01

  It was a tiramisu made with blueberries.

• 25:05Speaker 02

  Oh, I love tiramisu.

• 25:06Speaker 01

  He loves tiramisu as well.

• 25:08Jessie Ware?

  This is more chaotic than usual.

• 25:18Jessie Ware?

  So what's happened is I went to get Stephen Graham some hot sauce because he demanded all the hot sauces and I was worried. I mean, you did say before you'd even tasted it, that you needed all the hot sauces.

• 25:29Speaker 02

  All right, Annie.

• 25:29Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 25:32Jessie Ware?

  And Hannah, yeah, and, and we'll talk later about this. But anyway, so I went to get it. Luca, darling Luca, had put Mum's delicious looking blueberry and raspberry tiramisu in, not fully in, and it's gone. It's gone. God, this will go up there as one of the top, um, blunders. Is this beet? Having the fight with Maka? I don't know. Um, Georgia's red beet, yeah. Anyway, um, Got Chichang cheddar cornbread with.

• 26:02Speaker 02

  Come again? Who's Chichang? What's that all about?

• 26:05Jessie Ware?

  Um.

• 26:07Speaker 02

  What is Chichang?

• 26:07Jessie Ware?

  You make Got Chichang, Korean red hot, I mean, if you like.

• 26:12Speaker 02

  Oh, it is. It has got a little kick, doesn't it?

• 26:13Jessie Ware?

  Oh, welcome. The fucking spice. And you said, you said specifically.

• 26:19Speaker 02

  It has got a lovely little kick. Yeah, I love it. I love it with a kick, yeah.

• 26:22Jessie Ware?

  They said Stephen likes spicy food and chicken. And I don't, I didn't feel like I could feed you chicken at eleven o'clock in the morning, so I did spice. So this is Got Chichang and cheddar cornbread from Mira Sodas Dinner Cookbook. And, um, and then I've done it with fried egg and bacon. So there you go. Dig in. It is nice, isn't it?

• 26:41Speaker 02

  Gorgeous.

• 26:42Jessie Ware?

  Dig in. Eat some. We'll all think about what just happened.

• 26:47Speaker 02

  Or let's forget it.

• 26:48Jessie Ware?

  Oh, let's forget it.

• 26:49Speaker 02

  Let's forget it. Yeah.

• 26:52Jessie Ware?

  Who's the biggest Stevie you've worked with on set?

• 26:56Jessie Ware?

  Apart from Lenny just right now.

• 26:59Speaker 02

  Um.

• 27:01Jessie Ware?

  You're not gonna say.

• 27:03Speaker 02

  I was gonna, but then I've realised no comment.

• 27:05Jessie Ware?

  No, don't worry. Well done.

• 27:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:07Jessie Ware?

  Well done.

• 27:08Speaker 02

  And I hate that when they say that in twenty-four hours in police custody, but I am gonna go no comment. Well, coming back, look, see, and this is, this is the professionalism. Going back to that question.

• 27:18Jessie Ware?

  Hmm.

• 27:20Speaker 02

  That was one of our main influences.

• 27:21Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 27:22Speaker 02

  Um, twenty-four hours in police custody. No, because I, I love the concept of it and I love how they do it, you know what I mean? Um.

• 27:28Jessie Ware?

  For Adolescence?

• 27:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:29Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, right.

• 27:30Speaker 02

  And it was basically Plan B, which is Brad Pitt's company.

• 27:35Jessie Ware?

  Right.

• 27:35Speaker 02

  Got in touch with Phil and said, we'd really love to develop something with you and Stephen. It was Jeremy from Plan B. He said, we'd really love to develop something with you and Stephen, um, with respects to that kind of one-shot format. And it was kind of, they wanted to do something about one person and follow them around for like eight episodes. And I just said, that's wonderful, but I think that'd be a bit boring. And then I had this idea and this concept in my head that just kind of came to me while me and Phil were travelling in the car and we discussed it. And I knew I wanted to make something about.

• 28:09Speaker 02

  Young men, because there was quite a spate not too long ago where young boys were stabbing young girls. It happened. There was an incident in Liverpool. Um, there was an incident in, I think it was Hull, where that transgender girl got loads of the parking and stuff.

• 28:27Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 28:27Speaker 02

  And then while we were actually filming or just about, we were about to go film, there was an incident that happened in South London, where the young black girl got stabbed at the bus stop by her boyfriend.

• 28:36Jessie Ware?

  And Croydon.

• 28:37Speaker 02

  And Croydon, yeah.

• 28:38Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 28:40Speaker 01

  She dumped him.

• 28:41Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 28:41Speaker 01

  And he waited on the bus.

• 28:43Speaker 02

  Waited on the bus, yeah. And he, he had flowers for her as well or something, I think. So I just wanted to look at the possibilities of what that was about and why that was happening.

• 28:52Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 28:52Speaker 02

  So I had the idea in my head and then I knew for me personally, you know, I've been very blessed to work with Jack Thorne, who's a marvellous writer. I've worked with him on a lot of projects and we're very close and really good friends. And I knew Jack would be able to pull that out of my head and then make it something beautiful because he's a phenomenal writer.

• 29:09Jessie Ware?

  Which brings me on to your book.

• 29:11Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 29:12Jessie Ware?

  Um, it's.

• 29:14Speaker 02

  It's not my book.

• 29:15Jessie Ware?

  Well.

• 29:16Speaker 02

  No, but I get you.

• 29:17Jessie Ware?

  No, but you, okay, explain to people.

• 29:20Speaker 01

  Did you choose the letters yourself?

• 29:22Speaker 02

  A team.

• 29:23Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 29:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a collective we did.

• 29:24Jessie Ware?

  And I believe there's Jack's in there. Has Jack written on to, yeah.

• 29:28Speaker 02

  Jack wrote a letter in there.

• 29:29Jessie Ware?

  I really, really enjoyed his, um, letter.

• 29:32Speaker 02

  Beautiful, wasn't it?

• 29:32Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 29:33Speaker 02

  Did you read Ben? Did you read Lowell Khan's letter, Ben?

• 29:35Jessie Ware?

  Oh, no.

• 29:36Speaker 02

  His, his letters gorgeous.

• 29:37Jessie Ware?

  Well, he's amazing, isn't he?

• 29:39Speaker 02

  He's a wonderful lyricist. I'm beautifully keen on him.

• 29:41Jessie Ware?

  Red Riz Ahmed, though. Saw that in there. Well, I presumed it was Riz Ahmed, Riz actor.

• 29:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, but it's kind of that, that essence of anonymity as well to an extent, you know what I mean? You know, you may know who they are, but it's also.

• 29:52Jessie Ware?

  But also, it's not just actors and creatives. It's, you know, bricklayers, it's cleaners, it's, it's, um, people that work in, you know, I T, it, it.

• 30:00Speaker 02

  Doctors.

• 30:01Jessie Ware?

  Totally.

• 30:01Speaker 02

  Lawyers, you know, bin men.

• 30:03Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 30:03Speaker 02

  All across the, the spectrum, you know what I mean? That's, that's kind of what we were looking to try and achieve. But there was a marvellous team. Um, my best mate, who also I've known for thirty three years, Jude, um, it was kind of a concept that she came to us and we, because of Ollie, Ollie, who's also part of the curation team, she, um, her son was thirteen, so she got letters from, um, men in his life, just to give him some kind of bits of advice and tips and, you know, the things, things to look forward to, things to be mindful of. Um, and so Jude came to our house and said, look, what do you think it is? Do you think there's anything we could do with this concept? Um, and

• 30:44Speaker 02

  we were in our garden and I, and I just kind of went, yeah, this is really weird. If we kind of made it from fathers to sons, and we called it letters to our sons. And that, what we were trying to achieve and hopefully was to, because it's very difficult, especially, men find it difficult sometimes to, to communicate, to talk, especially to the children, do you know what I mean? And especially men of a certain age. I think generationally, that's switching and it's, and it's in a process of change. But I think systemically, we've always liked, men keep all of their things to themselves, do you know what I mean? And that's, that's culturally, socially. But what this was trying to do was just simply

• 31:28Speaker 02

  sit down, think of that one person, think of your son or your sons, and just write them a letter. And to take that time out and just think of that one person alone and no one else, it's a beautiful kind of meditative thing that you go into, do you know what I mean?

• 31:43Jessie Ware?

  Totally.

• 31:44Speaker 02

  And some of these letters are absolutely beautiful.

• 31:46Speaker 01

  Do you have a relationship with your dad at all, your biological dad?

• 31:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, no, he was very young when he had me. He was only seventeen.

• 31:55Speaker 01

  Crikey.

• 31:56Speaker 02

  But you know, I mean, my mum was nineteen.

• 31:58Speaker 01

  Shit, that's very young.

• 32:00Speaker 02

  And it was very difficult. You know, my mum was not married and my family, not hypocrisy, but you know, they were a very kind of Catholic tradition Liverpool family. So for my mum to be having a child who was mixed race and to have no father, it was, it was very difficult for her, do you know what I mean? At first, really difficult. And me and my dad, yeah, you know, I saw, I saw a lot of him when I was young, but he, he just, he didn't have the skills himself to be, um, a father that was there for me. And I, and I understand that, do you know what I mean? Because of his own life. But in saying that, he's gone on to have another three children and he's there for them, do you know

• 32:45Speaker 02

  what I mean? It just didn't quite, that's all right. I, I carry no animosity. I carry no resentment. I wish him nothing but love. But we just don't communicate because that's just kind of something that happened over time.

• 32:58Speaker 01

  He must be quite young now.

• 33:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, he can't be that old, can he? I don't think. So if he was seventeen when he had me and I'm fifty three, my maths is shit, but what's that?

• 33:07Speaker 01

  Seventy.

• 33:08Speaker 02

  There you go. But.

• 33:09Speaker 01

  Well done. Very young.

• 33:11Speaker 02

  Very young, but in response to that, Pops is the man that's raised me.

• 33:15Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 33:16Speaker 02

  He's been there from the age of ten.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  Oh, the age of ten.

• 33:20Speaker 02

  From the age of ten, yes. And he's the one who's guided me and, you know, the majority of my morals and my own moral compass comes from my, my pops. He's the one who taught me about my history, my sense of identity, the sense of pride and the culture that I should have. And I'm very proud to be Scottish. I'm very proud to be Irish. I'm very proud to have that, excuse me, Jamaican African heritage. I'm very proud of that. And but as a kid, there were struggles in that kind of sense of identity, not quite not knowing where I fitted in. And if you have to, you know, and if we're being completely honest, if you look at it, if you look at the kind of, the rise of the national front

• 34:00Speaker 02

  and things like that, when I was little, it was very, you know, it was very scary. Me and my dad were walking from Quarry Green shops once to, we were going up to the top of the roofie and three, three lads just, you know, started, started saying the N words, you know what I mean? And, and so it was, I did experience a bit of that when I was young, do you know what I mean? Quite a bit. Um, and to see how my dad conducted himself through that moment was, was very, for me as a kid, it was, yeah, because they were, you know, there was, the NF was all over the place, wasn't it? And it was a big rise in that. And, and I, and I think it, it was for me, was, it was a very scary time. Absolutely.

• 34:44Speaker 01

  It feels scary now.

• 34:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I agree. Yeah.

• 34:48Speaker 01

  People donating massive funds to reform from outside of England.

• 34:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:55Jessie Ware?

  I mean, seventy two mil. And that's, I mean, This Is England was one of your breakout.

• 35:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 35:01Jessie Ware?

  Was there a reason why, like, that felt like the right role to, because, I mean, your experience growing up?

• 35:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:08Jessie Ware?

  And, you know, actually going forward, the play, the people that you play, you know, in Nocturne, which is fucking terrifying.

• 35:15Speaker 02

  Thank you very much.

• 35:16Jessie Ware?

  But like, you, you're brilliant, of course, but you, did you feel like you wanted to tackle and see another?

• 35:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, with, with, with This Is England, um, when I went for the audition, I didn't mention anything about my heritage. Um, and it was in there. When we were doing the, the audition process with, with a group of us, um, Shimmy, Andrew Shim, who played Milky, you know, I said some harsh things in the context of what we were doing. Um, and then I phoned him later on and said, I'm really sorry, you know, the things I said, that's not me. Look, I just want you to know that I'm mixed race. And he was like, I, I knew it. I thought that was the case. Um, I said, but don't tell Shane, please, because I don't want it to jeopardize the possibility of getting the job. But Shane was

• 36:06Speaker 02

  listening to the conversation. So we already knew. And then Shane got on the phone and I went, Shane, uh, yeah, look, you probably don't want me now. And he was like, are you kidding? He said, this, this adds a different perspective to it. We can look at it from a completely different perspective. And then it goes back to, look, I'm, I'm, I'm fifty three. I'd like to say, I think I'm, I'm comfortable with who I am. We all have our fears and our doubts and our insecurities, do you know what I mean? Um, that kind of inferiority complexes that we can carry for a long time. I think that's slowly, over time, is beginning to pass. Um, but I still get moments of pure, it's always gonna go away at some point.

• 36:48Jessie Ware?

  Oh, God, imposter syndrome.

• 36:50Speaker 02

  Imposter syndrome, that's the exact thing I was looking for.

• 36:52Speaker 01

  How could you? And you're the most accomplished actor.

• 36:55Speaker 02

  Because.

• 36:56Speaker 01

  You've won, I mean, you couldn't have won another award last year.

• 36:59Speaker 02

  No, yeah, it was, it was mental.

• 37:00Speaker 01

  You won everything.

• 37:01Speaker 02

  But you said, there, there's, they're my deep little insecurities that I turn comes to terms with, you know what I mean? And that I work on regularly, uh, in, in a regular, a daily basis. For me, it's just for today, do you know what I mean? I only have today. I try and be present and be in the now and be here for today. So I only have today. But to go back to that, I'm in that position now, but whereas I looked at that character and he had hatred for his father, because we come up with a scenario where his dad just left one day and never came back, um, and left him and his mother. And then he had to take care of his mum and his little sister. And there was a horrible incident that happened and he stabbed the man who was raping his little sister. You never, you never understood any of this or you never saw it. But this is the backstory and the details that we went into. So that he, then he became a product of the system.

• 37:46Jessie Ware?

  Hmm.

• 37:47Speaker 02

  And he was thrown in prison at a young age, do you know what I mean? And from that moment on, he had this kind of hatred towards that representation of what his father was. So that's where all of his confusion came from. And with respects to Nocturne, that's completely different. That's, you know, that's, that's a really fun, interesting character to play. And I never would have, and again, I, I completely understand it. And it does go back to that. I completely understand it. I would have, I don't think I would have been looked after that role if it hadn't been for the success of adolescence.

• 38:17Jessie Ware?

  Hmm, yeah.

• 38:18Speaker 02

  And I'm aware of that. I'm completely aware of that. But the beauty and the joy of adolescence for me is that it's transformed a lot of people's careers. You look a little old.

• 38:28Speaker 01

  Gosh.

• 38:29Speaker 02

  Phenomenal, phenomenal. But again, let alone as someone that, you know, Shaheen and Phil and the whole lot of us really nurtured and we supported him. And we we gave him an environment where he could show his true talents. But if you look how he's progressed.

• 38:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:43Speaker 02

  And what he's gone on to. Then if you look at Christine, who played my wife, who was amazing. Christine was struggling to find work, you know what I mean? But now she's gone from job to job to job. You look at Erin, Erin Doherty.

• 38:57Speaker 01

  She's in everything now. I mean.

• 38:59Speaker 02

  She's phenomenal.

• 39:00Jessie Ware?

  From The Crown to that, it was.

• 39:02Speaker 02

  And who's to say that she wouldn't have kept going? But there's something within her, and you know what I mean? Again. What this has done is this has given us all opportunities. You you look at Phil, our director. You know, a fellow who six, seven, eight years ago was like, oh, I'd really like to be a director. And the trajectory of his career through the success. I'm proud of the team. I'm proud of all of us of what we achieved.

• 39:23Speaker 01

  But one of my favourite roles of yours was Bruce Springsteen's dad.

• 39:28Speaker 02

  Oh, thank you very much.

• 39:29Speaker 01

  I nearly died when you popped up with an American accent sounding, yeah, but playing a father again.

• 39:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:37Speaker 01

  A rather, a rather.

• 39:39Speaker 02

  Troubled.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  Troubled and damaged man, yeah.

• 39:41Speaker 02

  And I spent a lot of time talking to Bruce about his relationship with his dad.

• 39:46Speaker 01

  You talked to him about it?

• 39:47Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 39:48Speaker 01

  Oh, my word.

• 39:49Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah, because I, for my research, I listened to his book, his autobiography, his autobiography. And when he spoke of his father or spoke of things that his father had said to him, he changed his voice. Excuse me, very subtly, he changed his voice. And I said to him, are you aware that you've done that? And he was like, no. But there was kind of still a little essence of who his dad was to him when he was young and his dad suffered hugely from depression. Do you know what I mean? Huge. And that goes back to what we were saying about the book. I think back in the day. Excuse me, something's really.

• 40:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:26Speaker 02

  Let me do that bit again. No, no, no, sweet. It was gorgeous. I think the spice is getting me a little bit, but that's good though, because maybe I, maybe I overspice.

• 40:36Speaker 02

  She's a lovely lady, isn't she? But to go back to that, I think that generational thing, and that's what I was saying before, it's systemic, and I think that's the beauty of the book.

• 40:47Speaker 02

  Generations of generations of men have never spoken honestly and openly. And for me, if I'm really honest, my perception of this, and this is only my, you know, this is just my view, the biggest, the the strongest. Quality a man can have is vulnerability. To me, that's just the way I look at it.

• 41:05Jessie Ware?

  I want to talk about this idea of living each day. You said, you said, say, how do you take every day as like.

• 41:13Speaker 02

  Just for today, every day is what it is.

• 41:15Jessie Ware?

  Is that something to do with like, are you, you're sober? Are you sober now?

• 41:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:19Jessie Ware?

  But did it, did you, did this come out of that? I mean, did you do meditation today? Like, I want to know what helps you.

• 41:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I do meditate and and it was just a choice. I just, for a while, I've I've chose not to, not to drink, so. I, that's my own personal choice and my life has transformed dramatically. But I do, I, you know, I've found my own sense of peace.

• 41:39Jessie Ware?

  Can you tell me, because as somebody who maybe is trying to find a bit of peace and, and but. How do you do meditation? Do you do transcendental or is it like an app or is it?

• 41:50Speaker 02

  Different, my favourite is Muji.

• 41:52Jessie Ware?

  What's Muji?

• 41:52Speaker 02

  You don't know Muji?

• 41:53Jessie Ware?

  No.

• 41:54Speaker 02

  Muji is phenomenal.

• 41:55Jessie Ware?

  I know the shop, but I don't know.

• 41:56Speaker 02

  Muji's a, uh, he's a kind of guru, I suppose. He's a, he's a, I did a Muji course, Hannah bought me it for. Well, bought me for Christmas quite a while ago, but it was, he's got a place out in, um, Portugal.

• 42:11Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 42:11Speaker 02

  But I couldn't go because it was Covid, so I did a, a week's course. And kind of just Muji is the, the, I mean, I, I say, I feel, why do I feel silly talking about it? I don't know. Um, yeah, it's, you know, it's, it's, for me, meditation is integral.

• 42:28Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 42:28Speaker 02

  It's, it's part of my practice every morning.

• 42:30Jessie Ware?

  So you've been doing it, what, for like six years or?

• 42:33Speaker 02

  Ten years.

• 42:33Jessie Ware?

  Ten years?

• 42:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:35Speaker 01

  God, you're gonna have to do it after this.

• 42:37Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 42:40Speaker 02

  See, I, I didn't get too bothered about everything. Do you know, it is about that being present and being in the moment, you know what I mean? And and for me, the bit, what is the, what is the best kind of, it's, it's, all of these experiences are human experiences. This is what we're here for, do you know what I mean? Irrespective of differences that people would have and or people do have, like we were saying, socially, politically, underneath. And again, I I bring it back to the book in this respect, surely all you want is for your child to be the best person they possibly can be. And what's the best quality we have as human beings? Empathy. If you've walked a bit in my shoes, you understand me a lot, do you know what I mean? If you haven't, then surely communication and listening to each other is how we get there. How we try to find a balance and try and find some, for me, my mind can be quite racy.

• 43:26Speaker 02

  So I've tried to find that peace and that stillness, it's the breath within the breath, you know what I mean?

• 43:30Speaker 01

  You, you've just finished Nocturne, or you haven't just finished it, it's probably, you finished it a while ago.

• 43:35Speaker 02

  A good few months ago.

• 43:36Speaker 01

  What projects have you got coming up?

• 43:40Speaker 02

  You've got a bit of a twat, mention it though.

• 43:42Speaker 01

  Don't feel a twat. Don't. I want to know.

• 43:46Speaker 02

  Heat two.

• 43:48Jessie Ware?

  Fuck off. What? Heat, like Val Kilmer and, and, oh my god.

• 43:55Speaker 01

  How exciting.

• 43:56Speaker 02

  Yes, very exciting.

• 43:57Jessie Ware?

  Who's in the car?

• 43:59Speaker 02

  Um.

• 44:00Jessie Ware?

  Are you allowed to say?

• 44:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it's, I think everyone, yeah.

• 44:03Speaker 01

  That line of probably already said it.

• 44:05Speaker 02

  Uh, Leonardo DiCaprio.

• 44:07Speaker 01

  Have you acted with him yet?

• 44:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, I did.

• 44:09Speaker 01

  When did you act with him?

• 44:10Speaker 02

  Um, on Gangs of New York.

• 44:12Jessie Ware?

  Oh, okay, yeah.

• 44:13Speaker 02

  Which goes back to Leicester. Um, we went, me, well, because me, because you said ages ago, so we lived up there in Penj. And then we had to go to, I had to go to Italy to do Gangs of New York. And we had a little flat, so we gave our little flat up and put all of our stuff in Hannah's mum's house. And then we thought we were going to be in Italy for like five months. We ended up being there for seven months, I think it was, in total, eight months.

• 44:35Speaker 01

  Did Hannah come with?

• 44:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. She was, she loved it. She became like a tour guide. Because again, it's one of those things where when you're experiencing those things, you want your friends and family to, to be a part of that, do you know what I mean? What's the point in having all these experiences if you can't share them with the people that you love? So a load of mates and family came out to see us and it was absolutely gorgeous. We were in Rome and we lived in a place called Via Marguta, which was just off the Plaza de España.

• 45:02Speaker 01

  Wow, you said that beautifully.

• 45:04Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, so, but we had a wonderful time and, um.

• 45:08Speaker 01

  And the food.

• 45:09Speaker 02

  And the food.

• 45:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:10Speaker 02

  The food is unbelievable, isn't it? I think it's quite possibly my favourite, my favourite cuisine, I tell you. So, yeah, I met him, we were trying to work it out the other day, I think, way before the kids, so about twenty seven years ago, I met Leo. And we did Gangs of New York together and we've.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  Was that Scorsese?

• 45:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:29Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 45:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, and we've been mates ever since.

• 45:32Speaker 01

  So it's you, Leo.

• 45:33Speaker 02

  It's a buzz. I'm gonna go to work with me mate, you know what I mean? Every day.

• 45:37Speaker 01

  You and Leo?

• 45:38Speaker 02

  Christian Bale is in it as well.

• 45:40Speaker 01

  Christian Bale, oh my god.

• 45:41Jessie Ware?

  Oh my god, jeez. Okay, when, I mean, you are one of the greats, you really are. And you're also with, you're acting alongside greats a lot, but I mean, that's quite a, that's like.

• 45:55Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 45:55Jessie Ware?

  Avengers Assemble.

• 45:57Speaker 02

  It's slightly phenomenal.

• 45:58Speaker 01

  Right, we're, we're going to send you off on to a desert island.

• 46:01Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 46:02Speaker 01

  For six months. What's going to be the meal you'll have before you go away? Just to sustain you.

• 46:10Jessie Ware?

  What's your main per drink of choice?

• 46:12Speaker 02

  Oh, this is death row dinners. We play this at home. No, no, no, no, no. I love the desert islands.

• 46:17Jessie Ware?

  I'm down for death row dinner.

• 46:18Speaker 02

  The desert islands, okay, well, I mean, I've been playing this game for years, so.

• 46:24Jessie Ware?

  Let's do it.

• 46:24Speaker 02

  You ready?

• 46:25Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 46:25Speaker 02

  Okay, first of all, do you want to know where they're from as well?

• 46:28Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 46:28Speaker 02

  One ton soup.

• 46:30Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 46:30Speaker 02

  One ton soup, one ton soup from New York in Chinatown. Can't remember exactly where it was.

• 46:36Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 46:36Speaker 02

  But I went upstairs in this dingy looking little gaff, sat there and I had found my mecca. I was there and this bowl was massive and I was like, okay, can I have a one ton soup please? And they were like, yeah, okay. And it, and it just, it was like shining there in front of me, you know, where, it was just beautiful. And I tasted it and it was the most delicious one ton soup I've ever had. And I was obsessed with one ton soup because when I was a kid, I mean, my, I used to go into Chinatown and we, we'd go and have a Chinese. I'd always knock the coke home, so I get that, all that kind of stuff. And me, me mum would always get a one ton soup and I would go, why you have one ton soup? And she'd go, this is how you tell whether or not they're good, because this is the best one to judge them by.

• 47:17Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 47:18Speaker 02

  This is how you judge, this is how you judge a proper Chinese restaurant.

• 47:21Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 47:22Speaker 02

  I was like, all right, my, it's a taste, and that became my go to.

• 47:25Speaker 01

  And what's the stuffing in it? Is it pork?

• 47:27Speaker 02

  Yes, or prawns sometimes, but mostly pork.

• 47:31Jessie Ware?

  Okay, so we're going one ton soup from Chinatown in New York.

• 47:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:35Jessie Ware?

  Um, where are we going next?

• 47:36Speaker 02

  All right, now you'd make, now I get a bit twatty.

• 47:39Jessie Ware?

  Okay, it's okay.

• 47:40Speaker 02

  But, um, I'm having lobster.

• 47:43Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, good for you.

• 47:44Speaker 02

  Lobster.

• 47:45Speaker 01

  Grilled or?

• 47:45Speaker 02

  Grilled.

• 47:46Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 47:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, grilled lobster.

• 47:49Speaker 01

  Fresh from where?

• 47:50Speaker 02

  Fresh from, well, I was with Buck once again in New York this, yeah, we were in New York and we went to, is it Chelsea Market, Chelsea Avenue?

• 47:57Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 47:57Speaker 02

  We've got all the big fresh fish and all that. And we bought these fucking giant lobsters. They were amazing.

• 48:03Speaker 01

  Were they alive or dead?

• 48:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, they were alive.

• 48:06Jessie Ware?

  Oh, my god. Oh, so you took them home?

• 48:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, and Buck was like, because I was like, what are we, no, I know.

• 48:11Jessie Ware?

  Who's Buck?

• 48:12Speaker 02

  Buck's my mate from America.

• 48:14Jessie Ware?

  Okay, fine.

• 48:14Speaker 02

  He's amazing, big old one.

• 48:16Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 48:16Speaker 02

  And he threw them in a big pan. I know, it's terrible. I know, I'm sorry.

• 48:19Jessie Ware?

  No, it's not that. I don't, no.

• 48:21Speaker 02

  We had to put them in the bag and all that and carry them on to the, to the flat, the apartment.

• 48:25Speaker 01

  Put little elastic bands on their pins.

• 48:27Jessie Ware?

  Oh, mum.

• 48:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know, yeah.

• 48:29Speaker 01

  So they can't crawl out.

• 48:30Jessie Ware?

  Um, okay.

• 48:31Speaker 02

  Grace loves it, but she'll never pick one out of a thing. No, no, I have to have it.

• 48:34Jessie Ware?

  Okay, so you're having that.

• 48:35Speaker 02

  Goes in there, right? I'm having that and I'm having me Auntie Vera's chips.

• 48:40Jessie Ware?

  Why were they so good?

• 48:41Speaker 02

  They were unbelievable.

• 48:42Speaker 01

  She homemade chips.

• 48:44Speaker 02

  Homemade chips, proper chips.

• 48:45Speaker 01

  She had a proper chip?

• 48:46Speaker 02

  She had a proper chip pan. Yeah, with little bits in it as well occasionally, you know what I mean?

• 48:50Speaker 01

  Do you know what a chip pan looks like?

• 48:51Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, Gaga used to have one.

• 48:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like a little.

• 48:53Jessie Ware?

  She used to do her chop and fry fish in there too. But it's when they go, they go sweeter in a chip pan, I feel like there's a sweetness.

• 49:00Speaker 02

  Soft, and it's like spud in the middle and it's like soft mashed potato, but she could keep them perfect.

• 49:05Speaker 01

  But crispy on the outside.

• 49:06Speaker 02

  Crispy on the outside. Whenever my kids would go to the, can we go to Auntie Vera's so we can have some chips? And me ma made good chips as well. Me ma did make great chips, but not as good as our Vera's, our Vera's chips.

• 49:16Speaker 01

  So lobster and chips?

• 49:18Speaker 02

  Lobster and chips and, um, um, I've, I'll have to have a grain on there, won't I?

• 49:23Speaker 01

  You don't know.

• 49:24Speaker 02

  No, no, I do want a grain. Yeah, I'll have some broccolini.

• 49:27Jessie Ware?

  Oh.

• 49:27Speaker 01

  Broccolini.

• 49:28Jessie Ware?

  Someone's spent some time in America.

• 49:30Speaker 02

  No, no, and nice, but yes, yeah.

• 49:34Speaker 01

  What's the difference between broccoli?

• 49:36Speaker 02

  I don't really understand it.

• 49:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, is it just spears?

• 49:40Speaker 02

  I think, I don't know what is the actual difference. Yeah, I think they're a bit smaller.

• 49:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:45Jessie Ware?

  Oh, little.

• 49:46Speaker 02

  I don't mind pepper let the broccoli as well, that's nice.

• 49:48Jessie Ware?

  Oh, yeah.

• 49:50Speaker 02

  Purple sprouting, not purple.

• 49:51Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 49:51Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 49:52Jessie Ware?

  Uh, drink of choice?

• 49:54Speaker 02

  Oh, um, okay.

• 49:57Speaker 02

  I will have, um, oh, what will I have? I'll have, I'll have a peppermint tea.

• 50:02Speaker 01

  Oh, lovely.

• 50:03Speaker 02

  With a little bit of honey.

• 50:05Jessie Ware?

  Jesse, you could have given him one. I can give you one. I've got some mint in the garden. Would you like a peppermint tea?

• 50:09Speaker 02

  We can have one, yeah, if you don't.

• 50:10Jessie Ware?

  If you want one, I can do it now. Is she in the bushes there? I'll just get it.

• 50:15Speaker 02

  Why?

• 50:18Speaker 02

  Well, I thought we were gonna try it though. No, let me have a little tiny taste. No, it's worth a taste.

• 50:24Speaker 01

  Jesse, he's gonna try that really badly.

• 50:28Speaker 02

  Jesse, you're gonna have to present me with this dessert.

• 50:31Speaker 01

  What would you have for dessert on your, before?

• 50:34Speaker 02

  Okay, now, this, this dessert lives in its own paradoxical universe, okay?

• 50:39Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 50:40Speaker 02

  So, listen to this dessert.

• 50:42Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 50:42Speaker 02

  When I was a kid.

• 50:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:44Speaker 02

  And I used to go to Tarnay for my school dinner, I'd go to Sayers, that's a bakery. I don't know if they only existed in Liverpool or whatever, I don't know.

• 50:52Speaker 01

  And I come from Manchester, so I don't know.

• 50:54Speaker 02

  Don't think you was at Sayers, did you? Okay, and this is the duality of life in a different way, yeah? So I'd go to Sayers and I'd have a cheese pasty.

• 51:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:03Speaker 02

  Religiously without fail, and a cream slice.

• 51:06Speaker 01

  A cream slice.

• 51:07Speaker 02

  But it had pink icing on it.

• 51:09Speaker 01

  Oh my goodness, so it was like, um, flaky pastry?

• 51:13Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 51:14Speaker 01

  And you had icing on the top and then just cream whacked in the middle.

• 51:17Speaker 02

  With like some kind of raspberry.

• 51:19Speaker 01

  Raspberry jam, yeah.

• 51:21Speaker 02

  Do you remember them?

• 51:22Speaker 01

  Cream, of course.

• 51:23Speaker 02

  Cream slice, so I'd have one of them from Sayers.

• 51:25Speaker 01

  They do them anywhere.

• 51:26Speaker 02

  No, however.

• 51:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:28Speaker 02

  And this is where things go. I went to, what's that really, what's that really lovely, Scott's?

• 51:34Jessie Ware?

  Oh, yeah.

• 51:34Speaker 02

  That lovely restaurant, right?

• 51:36Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 51:37Speaker 02

  And then I've gone that up to dessert, I've gone, and I've looked at the thing, and I've gone, what's that?

• 51:42Speaker 01

  Cream slice.

• 51:43Speaker 02

  A millefeuille.

• 51:45Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 51:45Jessie Ware?

  Oh, I love a millefeuille.

• 51:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:47Jessie Ware?

  I've never known how to say it.

• 51:48Speaker 01

  It's almost like a cream slice.

• 51:50Speaker 02

  Millefeuille, millefeuille.

• 51:52Jessie Ware?

  I don't know.

• 51:53Speaker 01

  It means a thousand leaves.

• 51:56Speaker 02

  A millefeuille.

• 51:57Jessie Ware?

  She's been married to a Frenchman.

• 51:58Speaker 02

  Feuille, millefeuille.

• 51:59Speaker 01

  It just means leaves.

• 52:01Jessie Ware?

  You go quite camp when you do that.

• 52:02Speaker 02

  Millefeuille. You're in the millefeuille, yeah? Chabba, I'm on the millefeuille. Um, so it's basically just a cream slice.

• 52:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:11Speaker 02

  Isn't it?

• 52:12Speaker 01

  Delicious.

• 52:12Speaker 02

  Cause it's layers, yeah.

• 52:14Speaker 01

  And the icing.

• 52:14Speaker 02

  So, because I'm on an island and it's my last one, I'll have one of the cream ones from Sayers.

• 52:20Speaker 01

  And one from Scott's.

• 52:22Speaker 02

  Their millefeuille.

• 52:24Speaker 01

  And a peppermint tea with honey.

• 52:26Speaker 02

  Peppermint tea with honey, yeah.

• 52:27Jessie Ware?

  So we are trying something on this season where we get a kind of pay it forward, where a guest from the other episode asks you a question.

• 52:36Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 52:36Jessie Ware?

  So Kelly Rowland of Destiny's Child fame has got a question for you.

• 52:41Speaker 02

  She didn't even know who I was about yesterday, she didn't have a clue.

• 52:43Jessie Ware?

  Oh, why? She definitely did. Kelly Rowland knew exactly who you were.

• 52:48Speaker 02

  I can imagine, she's beautiful looking, isn't she?

• 52:50Jessie Ware?

  So.

• 52:51Speaker 02

  Stunning.

• 52:51Jessie Ware?

  Unbelievable.

• 52:52Speaker 02

  Skin is flawless.

• 52:53Jessie Ware?

  Her skin, she's the face of Olay's. Why do you say that?

• 52:56Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 52:57Jessie Ware?

  It must be that super serum she's.

• 53:00Speaker 01

  She is beautiful, actually astonishing.

• 53:02Jessie Ware?

  Okay, so this is, um, Kelly Rowland's question to Stephen Graham.

• 53:07Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 53:08Speaker 03

  What is the food that you could constantly eat in between takes?

• 53:14Jessie Ware?

  That's a really good question.

• 53:15Speaker 03

  For continuity, like, you know, it's like something that you wouldn't get tired of.

• 53:19Jessie Ware?

  That's a really good question.

• 53:22Speaker 01

  So have you got an answer for Kelly?

• 53:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's basically anything.

• 53:26Jessie Ware?

  Oh.

• 53:27Speaker 02

  And I'm not gonna ruin it for you, only because the trick is, when you're having a conversation.

• 53:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 53:33Speaker 02

  You eat the bits that you need to eat, whatever.

• 53:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:36Speaker 02

  But then, what we'll do is, we'll keep, you don't yummy too much, timey. Make sure you don't put too much in your mouth, and then obviously when they say cut.

• 53:48Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 53:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, sorry.

• 53:50Jessie Ware?

  Is it not delicious?

• 53:51Speaker 02

  Well, some of it is, yeah, most of the time. We have one of them people on set now, don't you, like a food tech kind of person? Who makes sure it's all, they, they, they do it beautifully.

• 54:00Jessie Ware?

  They need it to look good.

• 54:01Speaker 02

  But there's some stuff on, um.

• 54:04Jessie Ware?

  Which one? Nocturne?

• 54:05Speaker 02

  Boiling Point.

• 54:06Jessie Ware?

  A boiling point?

• 54:06Speaker 01

  Boiling point.

• 54:08Speaker 02

  There's some stuff on Boiling Point that you couldn't eat, cause it's sprayed, they have to spray it and make sure.

• 54:12Speaker 01

  And make sure it looks right.

• 54:13Speaker 02

  Make sure it looks, yeah.

• 54:14Speaker 01

  But, but throwing on from Kelly Rowland, what food would you never get tired of? That you could eat again and again and again?

• 54:23Speaker 01

  Is it Scouse?

• 54:24Jessie Ware?

  Clear as chips.

• 54:25Speaker 02

  It might be, it would probably be average chips, wouldn't it? I could eat a plate, but, but now though, let me think, somehow you can just keep going.

• 54:32Speaker 01

  You lived in Italy.

• 54:33Speaker 02

  I know, yeah, I was just wondering.

• 54:34Jessie Ware?

  Italy didn't get a look in, I don't think.

• 54:36Speaker 02

  No, I know, it didn't really, did it? I feel terrible about that. Probably just a simple, beautiful plate of pasta, and I mean, simple pasta.

• 54:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:43Speaker 02

  Very simple.

• 54:45Speaker 01

  With what on it?

• 54:46Speaker 02

  Little bit of oil.

• 54:46Speaker 01

  Just olive oil and garlic?

• 54:47Speaker 02

  Little bit of oil, little bit of garlic, maybe.

• 54:52Speaker 02

  Maybe, no.

• 54:53Jessie Ware?

  And she'd be?

• 54:54Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no, let's just keep it nice, well, then we'll.

• 54:57Jessie Ware?

  Sorry.

• 54:58Speaker 02

  He's back again. Then, then we're gonna go like a, what is it called? You can pronounce this properly, is it fruit de mer or something like that?

• 55:04Speaker 01

  Fruit de mer.

• 55:05Speaker 02

  Excuse me?

• 55:06Speaker 01

  Fruit de mer.

• 55:06Speaker 02

  Fruit de mer, doesn't she live down the road?

• 55:09Jessie Ware?

  I thought it was fruity.

• 55:10Speaker 02

  I thought it was fruity de mer. I go in and I say, can I have the fruit de mer please, mate? So I should be going, can I have the?

• 55:16Jessie Ware?

  Fruit de mer.

• 55:16Speaker 02

  Fruit de mer.

• 55:17Speaker 01

  So which bit do you, what do you like of all the fruit de mer?

• 55:21Speaker 02

  I just love it all, I think it's delicious. Yeah, no, I'll go that, let's, let's go that then, but not a massive load of spaghetti.

• 55:27Speaker 01

  What about?

• 55:28Speaker 02

  Just a small plate.

• 55:29Speaker 01

  Oysters, are you an oyster?

• 55:30Speaker 02

  I love oysters.

• 55:31Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 55:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I love oysters, I think they're delicious.

• 55:33Jessie Ware?

  I can do about three and then I'm like, yeah, okay, no, cool, I'm good.

• 55:37Speaker 02

  I can do, but I can ease, I could sit on my jet, I could do.

• 55:40Speaker 01

  Put hot sauce on?

• 55:41Speaker 02

  Well, I go, yeah, I, see, look, I go loads of pepper.

• 55:45Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 55:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:46Speaker 02

  The little shallot thingy there, throw that, throw that fella in, then I get the Tabasco.

• 55:50Jessie Ware?

  You're like everything.

• 55:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, then I bang the Tabasco in, so I've done me pepper.

• 55:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:55Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, you did it at the beginning.

• 55:56Speaker 02

  Shallot, Tabasco, and then I have to ask very nicely, cause they normally have to get it from the bar. And this may be certain, like, purists may think I am a Philistine, but fuck them. I like to get some Worcestershire sauce.

• 56:09Speaker 01

  On top of that.

• 56:10Speaker 02

  And just drop it in.

• 56:11Jessie Ware?

  You're basically making kind of like a Bloody Mary in like, it's like a bit like a Virgin Mary, isn't it?

• 56:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, so you can't, you can't taste them probably.

• 56:20Speaker 02

  No, but then I don't mind them on their own, but especially with, cause me mate Leon, he, he throws the thing and I'm like, what are you doing? That's the best bit to see, the juice. What did Hannah say?

• 56:30Speaker 01

  It's like eating snot.

• 56:32Speaker 02

  She said it's like giving a whale a blowjob.

• 56:33Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 56:38Speaker 01

  It's very funny.

• 56:39Speaker 02

  That's the kind of, you need to get it on, you need to get it on, don't you?

• 56:43Speaker 01

  We do need it on.

• 56:45Speaker 02

  She's a fantastic cook.

• 56:46Speaker 01

  Is she?

• 56:47Speaker 02

  She's apps, I, I really looked out, yeah, ah, no mistake. I, I landed right on me feet, she's phenomenal.

• 56:56Speaker 01

  Darling, thank god for you, cross.

• 56:57Speaker 02

  She's a wonderful cook.

• 56:58Jessie Ware?

  So listen, I'm gonna try this with Stephen, so if we're going down, we're going down together.

• 57:02Speaker 02

  Let's, hang on, let's throw that in there.

• 57:04Speaker 01

  Any crunchy bits?

• 57:06Jessie Ware?

  Oh, it would have been delicious.

• 57:07Speaker 01

  I know.

• 57:08Jessie Ware?

  Oh, yeah, I'm going in again, lovely.

• 57:12Speaker 02

  Oh, do you know what? I think I've got food to that. Yes.

• 57:16Jessie Ware?

  What are you gonna do?

• 57:17Speaker 02

  We found this out over like the past couple of years, I never used to do it at all. What's going on? Maybe you can answer the question?

• 57:23Jessie Ware?

  What, what?

• 57:24Speaker 02

  When I have, when I'm in a restaurant, and I have something, see, I start.

• 57:27Jessie Ware?

  Did you just click?

• 57:28Speaker 02

  I start going, I can't do it in real life normally if I try to do it, but I go like click and.

• 57:33Speaker 01

  Have another go and let's see what happens.

• 57:36Speaker 02

  See, it's gone, it's, honest to god, and I'm not making it up.

• 57:40Jessie Ware?

  Is it when it's good or when it's?

• 57:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, when it's good, it's like kind of my happy tune. We were having dinner once, me, Hannah and Leon, and I, and I fucking, I did this thing, right? I had it and then I turned into like, I went to sad clam, she was like, stop doing it, and I went. And they were both like, what the fuck are you doing? And then I went into happy elephant.

• 58:00Speaker 01

  Any crunchy bits?

• 58:02Speaker 02

  But I'm like, I can't control it when it's happening. Have you ever been to that restaurant, Frog?

• 58:08Speaker 01

  No, Adam, Adam, Adam, yeah, I love his restaurant, it's gorgeous.

• 58:13Speaker 02

  Have you been to?

• 58:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, the one in Covent Garden.

• 58:15Jessie Ware?

  Did you rib it?

• 58:16Speaker 01

  The best.

• 58:17Speaker 02

  It's unbelievable, it's so delicious.

• 58:21Jessie Ware?

  Were you making noises there?

• 58:22Speaker 01

  Adam Handler.

• 58:22Speaker 02

  I was like a fucking one man band in a car, I was like.

• 58:28Speaker 02

  They were, the two of them were, I went, I'm going to the toilet, and them two were like, you two now, they were just pissing themselves laughing. I don't know where it comes from. Why has it started?

• 58:38Jessie Ware?

  I don't know now, I need to know what the next sound is.

• 58:40Speaker 02

  Hannah reckons it's cause when I was a kid, me mum used to go, mm.

• 58:43Speaker 01

  Um, oh, yeah, yum, yum, yum, yum.

• 58:45Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 58:46Jessie Ware?

  I mean.

• 58:47Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 58:48Speaker 01

  Thank you for trying it, darling.

• 58:50Jessie Ware?

  You are so sweet. The last question that we need to ask you is. A nost.

• 58:58Speaker 02

  See?

• 59:00Jessie Ware?

  Enjoy it. I don't mind the sounds, it's beautiful.

• 59:05Speaker 02

  I swear to god I didn't do it with the other, it's, now it's mostly just.

• 59:08Jessie Ware?

  You know what you like more then, don't we?

• 59:09Speaker 02

  No, I don't mean it that, ah, ah, but like, sorry. I don't know what, what is it? What's going on? Me mum just has this uncontrollable thing to do whatever it wants.

• 59:17Speaker 01

  I don't know, we've never had a guest like you before, to be perfectly frank.

• 59:22Jessie Ware?

  Okay, last question.

• 59:23Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 59:24Jessie Ware?

  Really enjoyed having you on, Stephen.

• 59:26Speaker 02

  Thank you very much, it's been a pleasure.

• 59:27Jessie Ware?

  You are amazing. Um, a nostalgic taste that can transport you back somewhere, happy or sad?

• 59:34Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm gonna go bavaro.

• 59:37Speaker 01

  Bavaro at football matches?

• 59:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm gonna go bavaro with a bit of pepper.

• 59:44Speaker 01

  Where'd you get your pepper from?

• 59:47Speaker 02

  Well, they have it on the side, you just have the little white thing, you do that, yeah?

• 59:51Jessie Ware?

  Who got you into that?

• 59:53Speaker 02

  Um.

• 59:54Jessie Ware?

  The pepper with the bavaro, you just, where there's a pepper, there's.

• 59:56Speaker 02

  Just one of them things, just one of them things as a kid, but I mean, like the proper footy matches, you know, like my uncles and that, my cousins playing footy. And the side, and the hot dog fan used to do bavaro and that as well, that's kind of where it is. But then I thought, yeah, I love bavaro, bavaro's kind of, there's something about that. Yeah.

• 1:00:11Jessie Ware?

  Stephen Graham, thank you so much for coming on.

• 1:00:13Speaker 02

  It's been an absolute pleasure, thank you.

• 1:00:15Jessie Ware?

  Good luck with the book, good luck with Nocturne, can't wait to see you on our screens again.

• 1:00:18Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me, it's been an absolute joy.

• 1:00:20Jessie Ware?

  Sorry about the chaos.

• 1:00:36Jessie Ware?

  Stephen Graham.

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  I think I've just fallen in love.

• 1:00:39Jessie Ware?

  I loved him so much, and I also loved how much he loves his wife Hannah.

• 1:00:44Speaker 01

  I love how warm he was, and actually he had exactly what he thinks the world needs more of, empathy.

• 1:00:51Jessie Ware?

  Thanks Stephen Graham for Prime Minister.

• 1:00:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. Um. Head of the world, I think.

• 1:00:56Jessie Ware?

  Loved chatting with him and kind of forgot that we were doing a food podcast, so just thank you so much, Stephen, for being so open and fun. And embracing the chaos that was this episode.

• 1:01:10Speaker 01

  It was chaotic.

• 1:01:12Jessie Ware?

  It was. There was a lot of noises today.

• 1:01:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, smoke alarm.

• 1:01:16Jessie Ware?

  Including Stephen's enjoyment of your.

• 1:01:19Speaker 01

  Bro, yeah.

• 1:01:19Jessie Ware?

  I'm sorry about that.

• 1:01:20Speaker 01

  It's like.

• 1:01:23Jessie Ware?

  It looked really nice and it tasted really nice too.

• 1:01:27Jessie Ware?

  I didn't put it in the fridge, that's all I'm gonna say.

• 1:01:30Speaker 01

  But you dropped it out of the fridge, yeah.

• 1:01:32Jessie Ware?

  I did drop it out of the fridge.

• 1:01:34Speaker 01

  It was, you kind of got overwhelmed with finding hot sauce.

• 1:01:37Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, I mean, the guy, look, I'm saying he's a really great guy, but he is quite demanding when it comes to hot food.

• 1:01:41Speaker 01

  Just offered him one hot thing.

• 1:01:43Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, but then I was trying to like, you know, get him with Stephen Graham.

• 1:01:46Speaker 01

  Cause you'd fallen in love already, yeah.

• 1:01:48Jessie Ware?

  So much. I just wanted to make sure he really enjoyed his food and, and doing so, lost a course. Sorry.

• 1:01:57Speaker 01

  Never mind.

• 1:01:57Jessie Ware?

  Um, what a guy.

• 1:02:00Speaker 01

  Wonderful man.

• 1:02:01Jessie Ware?

  Letters to Our Sons is out now, and you can watch Nocturne on Apple TV at the end of October. Very different sides of Stephen Graham.

• 1:02:11Speaker 01

  And exciting to come.

• 1:02:13Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, he too. Maybe he'll put in a good word with, um, Christian and Leo. That'd be good, wouldn't it? Thank you to Stephen, just brilliant, had amazing answers and was just a wonderful guest. I did give him a hefty amount of cornbread. I thought the recipe was delicious.

• 1:02:31Speaker 01

  Delicious.

• 1:02:31Jessie Ware?

  Mira Sodha, you're so good.

• 1:02:33Speaker 01

  She's clever.

• 1:02:35Jessie Ware?

  Oh, I'm gonna make that for Sam.

• 1:02:36Speaker 01

  Are you supposed to have it as big as that? No, give those portions that big.

• 1:02:41Jessie Ware?

  No, I'm learning maybe I should have done a smaller portion for Stephen, but he had said that he hadn't eaten all day, but I think maybe his stomach could shrug.

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  Small and then they can ask for more.

• 1:02:49Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, I know. Okay.

• 1:02:52Speaker 01

  Well, but that was, he was getting his visa so he can go off and film heat.

• 1:02:55Jessie Ware?

  There you go. We'll see you next week for more table manners and sorry about the pudding.

• 1:03:01Speaker 01

  Never mind.