Ashley Walters

The brilliant Ashley Walters is over for dinner this week. From his days as Asher D in So Solid Crew, to Top Boy and Adolescence, Ashley has had an incredible career and now he’s stepping behind the camera for his directorial debut ‘Animol'. Mum made sea bass with tomato and anchovy dressing followed by a vegan apple and apricot cake. We chatted about growing up in Peckham, his early days in Oliver! in the West End, how he ended up in prison, working with Stephen Graham and the comfort foods that take him back to childhood - including oysters! Thank you Ashley for such an honest and lovely evening. ‘Animol’ will be released in cinemas from 30th October. Listen & watch Table Manners here - https://tablemanners.komi.io/ Follow Table Manners on: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tablemannerspodcast/ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@tablemannerspodcast Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/tablemannerspodcast YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@TableMannersPodcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Jessie Ware?

  Hello and welcome to Table manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here with Mum. You're looking very glam Mum, the hair has heightened today.

• 0:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, good height today.

• 0:09Jessie Ware?

  What have you used on it today?

• 0:10Speaker 01

  Just what I normally use, but I did my rollers in a different way.

• 0:14Jessie Ware?

  Oh, yeah.

• 0:15Speaker 01

  I went backwards darling.

• 0:17Jessie Ware?

  Instead of forwards?

• 0:18Speaker 01

  Sideways.

• 0:19Jessie Ware?

  Oh.

• 0:20Speaker 01

  So instead of looking like a barrister when I have my rollers in, I put them all back for height.

• 0:26Jessie Ware?

  That has worked.

• 0:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, thank you.

• 0:28Jessie Ware?

  It's a bit farer.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, is it?

• 0:30Jessie Ware?

  No, just like, it's nice.

• 0:32Speaker 01

  A bit Charlie's Angels?

• 0:33Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay.

• 0:34Jessie Ware?

  It's nice.

• 0:34Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 0:35Jessie Ware?

  We have Ashley Walters coming on today, who, I mean, I've known since he was Asher D in So Solid. And that has been like, that is, if you are a Londoner, particularly a South Londoner.

• 0:48Speaker 01

  South.

• 0:49Jessie Ware?

  You know every lyric to that song.

• 0:51Speaker 01

  Go on, tell me, what is it?

• 0:53Jessie Ware?

  I'm not gonna do it.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  What's it called? What? What's it called?

• 0:57Jessie Ware?

  Well, they've got many songs, but 21 Seconds is the one, where they got the high budget for the video and Romeo was a vampire, do you remember? I think it was like around the time that like Romeo Must Die just happened and Aliyah Done Try Again.

• 1:10Speaker 01

  Were you at secondary school?

• 1:12Jessie Ware?

  Year nine, maybe, I think. And we loved them and we loved that they were South London.

• 1:17Speaker 01

  They were Peckham, weren't they?

• 1:18Jessie Ware?

  No, they were about to see some of them, but Ashley Walters was Peckham.

• 1:21Speaker 01

  Peckham, yeah.

• 1:22Jessie Ware?

  Asher D was Peckham. And Ashley Walters has gone on to be one of our great actors.

• 1:28Speaker 01

  Actors and now a director?

• 1:30Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, everything from Bullet Boy, Top Boy, Small Island with Ruf Wilson.

• 1:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh yes.

• 1:36Jessie Ware?

  And of course, Adolescence. And he now has directed a film. It's his directorial debut and it's called Animal.

• 1:47Speaker 01

  Animal with an O?

• 1:49Jessie Ware?

  Yes.

• 1:50Speaker 01

  I wonder why it's called?

• 1:51Jessie Ware?

  I'm gonna ask him that.

• 1:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52Jessie Ware?

  It's about a young offenders.

• 1:54Speaker 01

  Institution, yeah.

• 1:55Jessie Ware?

  It's a really challenging watch.

• 1:57Speaker 01

  It's upsetting, it's heartbreaking.

• 2:00Jessie Ware?

  But it's also got a really beautiful story in it too. Well, a few beautiful stories in it. And it's also got a really beautiful friendship and relationship as one of the storylines, which I found incredibly touching. Stephen Graham didn't tell us that he was in it. He plays, what do you call him, like a youth advisor?

• 2:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:22Jessie Ware?

  And yeah, Ashley Walters is coming on to talk to us all about Animal.

• 2:27Speaker 01

  I hope he's going to talk about a lot of other things too.

• 2:30Jessie Ware?

  I don't think he lives in London anymore.

• 2:32Speaker 01

  He lives in Kent.

• 2:33Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, so I wanna know about all the spots that he likes in Peckham, because that will suit me.

• 2:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:38Jessie Ware?

  Mum, what have you made?

• 2:40Speaker 01

  Well, I've made what Stephen Graham told me to make for him. I've made sea bass with a kind of very interesting salsa dressing. And it's from the book, oh, I can't.

• 2:53Jessie Ware?

  Alexandra Dudley?

• 2:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:54Jessie Ware?

  Good cookbook.

• 2:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a lovely cookbook and it seems quite simple. The only thing is you're going to have a bit of fried fish. Well, I'm, I'm going to have to fry the fish. Well, anyway, I've done new potatoes in this tomato salad that is mixed with kind of anchovies and shallots and everything. It looks nice.

• 3:12Jessie Ware?

  Where's that from?

• 3:12Speaker 01

  The same book. And then I've just done some green beans and some new potatoes without butter.

• 3:19Jessie Ware?

  Well, Mum had a whole plan to do something else until she looks at the notes and it says that Ashley's lactose intolerant.

• 3:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, he was going to have a fish pie with a pint of milk in.

• 3:29Jessie Ware?

  And then what were you gonna do for pudding?

• 3:31Speaker 01

  Oh, it was cheesecake.

• 3:32Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, so that's, that, that, you had to rethink that. And what have you done for pudding?

• 3:37Speaker 01

  I've made a vegan apple and apricot cake.

• 3:42Jessie Ware?

  Well done for being so adaptive.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  I adapted with five minutes before my Ocado cut off. It was touch and go.

• 3:49Jessie Ware?

  Right, well done. Ashley Walters coming up on Table Manners.

• 4:01Jessie Ware?

  Ashley Walters, thank you very much for being here.

• 4:03Speaker 02

  Hey, hey, hey. Thank you for having me. Thank you both.

• 4:05Jessie Ware?

  It's a pleasure.

• 4:06Speaker 01

  Does this area feel familiar?

• 4:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:08Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 4:09Speaker 02

  Totally. I, I grew up around here. My first girlfriend was from Clapham Common.

• 4:13Jessie Ware?

  Oh, yeah.

• 4:14Speaker 02

  Who became the mother of my first three children. So I've got like a lot of ties to, to Clapham. And obviously So Solid was all back to see Clapham, yeah. So I've been around here a lot.

• 4:28Jessie Ware?

  And we all, well, as I'm 41, So Solid was everything to every South Londoner. It really was. But yeah, I need to know what you did in the gym today.

• 4:39Speaker 02

  So in the gym today, what did I do? I did a five, I do a 5K run every morning.

• 4:44Jessie Ware?

  Okay, sure.

• 4:44Speaker 02

  Treadmill run because I'm 44 and my knees have gone. So.

• 4:48Jessie Ware?

  What's wrong with your knee? Because I just got my MRI back.

• 4:51Speaker 02

  If I run on the, on the roads, they're just, I'm, I'm out of the game for like three days.

• 4:55Jessie Ware?

  It's so boring running on a treadmill though, isn't it?

• 4:57Speaker 02

  I know, it is. I have to.

• 4:58Jessie Ware?

  Do you watch something?

• 4:59Speaker 02

  I watch a podcast, Table Manners.

• 5:01Jessie Ware?

  Oh, shit.

• 5:02Speaker 02

  No, no, dude.

• 5:03Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, okay.

• 5:04Speaker 02

  Every now and then I've got like loads of podcasts that I watch, but yeah, I'll throw in a podcast.

• 5:08Jessie Ware?

  Which, which other podcasts do you like?

• 5:10Speaker 02

  I'm a big fan of, like, I'm a big football person. I'm a huge Arsenal fan. So I watch Football's 12th Man. There's a guy called Dan Potts that runs that. AFTV, but I'm kind of, you know, they, they were big, they are the biggest probably. So I watch them every now and again, but they're slightly commercial. I like to hear like the raw, you know, the raw fans going at it.

• 5:31Jessie Ware?

  Well, my husband's a Spurs fan and he's chatting, listening to them just like not knowing what to do. And he listens to those ones, so.

• 5:38Speaker 02

  We can't talk about your husband or Spurs while, while I'm here now.

• 5:41Jessie Ware?

  You're fine, you're doing okay. So calm down, okay?

• 5:44Speaker 02

  And I saw, I saw you got Man United toilet row in the toilet, so I didn't get that.

• 5:48Jessie Ware?

  That was actually from an Arsenal fan that Mum's kept it, because yeah, to wipe, yeah.

• 5:52Speaker 02

  Oh, it was a, it was a wind-up?

• 5:53Jessie Ware?

  Yes, it was a wind-up, yeah.

• 5:54Speaker 02

  Got it, got it.

• 5:55Jessie Ware?

  But did you celebrate, how did you celebrate when Arsenal won?

• 5:59Speaker 02

  I was away. So I was in, I was actually in Belfast shooting something. So I just had to watch it online, to be honest, and the night that we won. But then when I got back, I did go to the parade with my wife and my two youngest kids. Yeah, it was lovely. It was amazing. 22 years.

• 6:14Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, a long, long way.

• 6:16Jessie Ware?

  Do you play anymore?

• 6:18Speaker 02

  No, no. And I wasn't good when I played. So I'm not one of those people that know what I'm talking about.

• 6:23Jessie Ware?

  But I know what you were good at and, because my, well, my, my mate was in Oliver with you.

• 6:28Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 6:29Jessie Ware?

  Jack Pignate?

• 6:30Speaker 02

  I'm not gonna, I won't remember and I'm so sorry, but I was really young.

• 6:34Jessie Ware?

  You were in Oliver?

• 6:35Speaker 02

  I was in Oliver.

• 6:35Jessie Ware?

  Like the first?

• 6:36Speaker 02

  I was in the first cast in, at the London Palladium.

• 6:40Jessie Ware?

  With Jonathan Pry?

• 6:41Speaker 02

  Jonathan Pry, Sam Mendes directed, and it was amazing. It was amazing.

• 6:45Jessie Ware?

  Well, my mate was one of Fagin's gang, which I think you were.

• 6:50Speaker 02

  I was as well, yeah.

• 6:50Jessie Ware?

  So Jack was part of the Fagin's gang and so.

• 6:53Speaker 02

  Did he tell you the character he played? Because they didn't have names.

• 6:56Speaker 01

  He was a Blackheath boy and he talked like a South Londoner.

• 7:00Speaker 02

  He didn't wear like a, like a blue costume with like a blue hat or something like that. I remember. I had a fight with him.

• 7:08Speaker 01

  Probably.

• 7:08Jessie Ware?

  What, on stage or off? Okay, fine. I was gonna be like, oh God, shall I ask Jack? I'll ask Jack.

• 7:14Speaker 02

  No, maybe, maybe it was.

• 7:15Jessie Ware?

  What was your character called?

• 7:16Speaker 02

  Mine was Handwalker.

• 7:19Jessie Ware?

  Because you got to make them up or not?

• 7:21Speaker 02

  Well, no, they were made, basically, we had like a north and a south cast. So because you're so young, you can't do all, all the days by law, so you had to split them up with another guy. The other guy who was playing my character could walk on his hands. So he had this little moment in the show where he'd like get, start walking on his hands for like five minutes or something. And I obviously couldn't, I couldn't do it. They tried to train me up to do it, but I couldn't do it. So I was called Handwalker, but I never walked on my hands.

• 7:48Speaker 01

  Handwalker.

• 7:48Speaker 02

  So my, my, my son's been auditioning for Lion King.

• 7:51Jessie Ware?

  Oh, really?

• 7:52Speaker 02

  For Simba for the last maybe year. So he's just, he's just about to be called back next year.

• 7:58Jessie Ware?

  Is that how long the audition process?

• 8:00Speaker 02

  Well, no, but they, they were always turning them over. So they're like, it didn't work out for you this time, come back again in a few months or whatever. So he's got his next run coming and I've been kind of rehearsing with him at home.

• 8:10Jessie Ware?

  How's that going?

• 8:11Speaker 02

  It's amazing. It's like, you know, it's my son, so I'm a bit biased.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  Is he going to acting classes?

• 8:17Speaker 02

  He doesn't, but we've, we've had him in like little, you know, Stagecoach and you know, the little drama stuff that you have in, in your local area. So he's been doing it. He's been singing and doing drama since he was like three, four.

• 8:28Jessie Ware?

  And how is it acting opposite your son?

• 8:32Speaker 02

  It's amazing. We actually nearly ended up in the same movie. So I went up for a big film. It was like a Denzel Washington film and I went up to play his brother. And the next day, my son got the call from his agent to play my character younger. So it was like, I don't know, it was such a coincidence.

• 8:53Jessie Ware?

  Did either of you get the pass?

• 8:54Speaker 02

  No, we didn't.

• 8:55Jessie Ware?

  Well, it's still time.

• 8:57Speaker 02

  Cut that out. I always get passed.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  Did you go to Sylvia Young?

• 9:02Speaker 02

  I did, yeah.

• 9:02Jessie Ware?

  I can't believe that you're still having to audition, mate.

• 9:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, it happens. It happens. That's how it goes. I mean, I mean, maybe she's just for me. I don't really talk to other actors about it.

• 9:13Speaker 01

  Now you're a director, you can put yourself in it.

• 9:14Speaker 02

  Well, that's it. That was the whole point of the directing was like, just in case the work dries up, I can give myself work.

• 9:21Jessie Ware?

  Well, let's talk about, we will talk about food in a minute, but let's talk about Animal.

• 9:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:25Jessie Ware?

  Congratulations, by the way. It's the directing, the acting is phenomenal. And it slaps you around the face and is really quite upsetting to watch, a lot of it. Whilst there is also like real beauty in that relationship between Christian and Troy. Like that was incredibly beautiful. And even the ending, that scene with Stephen Graham about joy, a shame.

• 9:52Speaker 02

  Shame, yeah.

• 9:53Jessie Ware?

  And so congratulations.

• 9:55Speaker 02

  Thank you, thank you.

• 9:56Jessie Ware?

  I guess, why, firstly, we both want to know why Animal with an O, but that's just because we want to know.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:04Jessie Ware?

  So I just need to know that.

• 10:06Speaker 02

  Well, listen, I'm glad we did it because there are like two other films called Animal and Animals that are coming out like around the same time, which always happens. So, so I'm glad we kind of made a difference, but that was just Nick Love, like the great Nick Love. I mean, sometimes I don't understand a lot of the decisions he makes and we haven't really had a conversation about it. But I do know that.

• 10:31Speaker 02

  I suffer with dyslexia. He suffers with dyslexia. You know, and it was, I don't think he did it by accident. He did it on purpose, but it was just to signify like what a lot of the boys, I guess, are going through. In in the prison and probably had a bit more significance in the first draft, because I, there was loads of stuff that we kind of took out. You know, loads of storylines of themes that we took out. And one of them was that Troy couldn't read or write.

• 10:55Jessie Ware?

  Right.

• 10:56Speaker 02

  So and I, in the end, I didn't want that in there.

• 10:59Jessie Ware?

  Can we talk about, I mean, why did you, I think I know why you chose this as a subject, but um can you tell us why you chose to do your de- debut?

• 11:09Speaker 02

  Um, I mean, from, I got the opportunity to direct, I always said that I didn't want to do anything that anyone would expect me to do. I've done a lot of, you know, crime dramas and gang dramas and stuff, and I just thought it would be so easy for me to go into something like that. So I was trying to avoid scripts like Animal, to be honest, but um but Nick was adamant that we had to work together and I had to direct this film. And he sent it to me and I just thought it was beautiful and it was, you know, we have so many prison drama films that come from the UK. We do them quite well, you know. But never one that kind of sees it from this sort of perspective, you know, I was, I went to prison early two thousands.

• 11:51Jessie Ware?

  How old were you?

• 11:52Speaker 02

  Uh, well, it's two thousand and one. So I was like eighteen, nineteen, I think.

• 11:58Speaker 01

  Was it prison or Young Offenders?

• 12:00Speaker 02

  So I started in the Young Offenders. I was on the cusp of the age group. So I started in the Young Offenders for like two months. I was in Felton for a month or so.

• 12:08Speaker 01

  Used to visit Felton. I was a soc- I'm a social worker.

• 12:10Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  So I used to visit kids in Felton.

• 12:14Speaker 02

  It was tough in there. I feel, I feel like, like younger prisoners have a harder time. Everyone's got something to prove, like older prisoners are more relaxed. But anyway.

• 12:23Jessie Ware?

  But you're going in there off the back of also being famous.

• 12:26Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 12:27Jessie Ware?

  You are Asher D at that point, having hits. So I can imagine that may have been even harder or was there a kind of power there? I don't know, like.

• 12:36Speaker 02

  It was just a huge target on my head, to be honest, you know, and everyone had a, had a point to prove, I guess. But I managed to survive that experience, but. It was, I mean, it was really important when I read this script for me to tell the story, because I was really vulnerable in there, although I was, had this sort of gangster image on the outside. I was in Sylvia Young doing theatre and, you know, tap and ballet on the weekends and stuff that my friends didn't know about. And my kind of jail time was a real shock to my family and to my close friends. They didn't realise what I was going through. So the experience was harrowing. I was really vulnerable in there. And, you know, in order to survive, I had to befriend people and just like, you know, act a different way than I actually am in order to get through.

• 13:19Speaker 02

  And I saw that in this script and I don't think I had actually felt that from other scripts before.

• 13:23Speaker 01

  Without being too personal, what, since you had success and things were going well, what do you think went wrong that you ended up?

• 13:32Speaker 02

  Oh, that was, um, I mean, the music game and the, you know, the music group that I was in, although Soul Solid were really good. A lot of the guys had come from crime, you know, they, they'd already been in gangs, a lot of them had been into prison, you know, some for attempted murder. There was like, it was like a huge group of people that had one common goal to kind of get themselves out of the area and the position they were in, but there was a lot of trauma and a lot of people kind of delving back into it. And I got really drawn up in that year. I just got drawn into it. So I made some decisions that weren't great and I was eventually arrested for possession of a firearm um over an altercation I had with a traffic warden in, in, in London, which is like, you know.

• 14:13Speaker 02

  But yeah, so that all happened and I had that experience. And one thing I always say about life is that, and which I know a lot more now in my forty four years, but I've never been in control of anything that's happening around me, right? You're, you're, you do the best you can do with what you've got and, you know, and you better yourself every day, but people, places and things, other things that exist, I have no control over and I was trying to control a lot of what was going around me and in, in turn, maybe blocking a lot of my blessings, you know.

• 14:43Speaker 01

  Do you think they were making an example of you because you're in So Solid Crew that to send you to prison?

• 14:49Speaker 02

  I'm su- I'm sure.

• 14:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:50Speaker 02

  I'm sure I was tried by, by media and, do you know what I mean?

• 14:54Speaker 01

  That you would have got a suspended sentence.

• 14:57Speaker 02

  Maybe, maybe. I mean, it was a loaded firearm. It was dangerous and I like, you know, especially because there'll be other kids that age watching me. I would never say, you know, it was the right thing to do. So I deserved to get time. Um, and I could have got a lot longer. I think after my case, they sort of changed a lot of the laws and, you know, you, you, I could have got seven years. So I only got a year and a half. So I was happy about that, yeah.

• 15:25Jessie Ware?

  But um, did you, when you saw the script, did you help them adapt anything, being like, hang on, that isn't how it would have been? I would, is there any of your story in there? Did you weave any of that into Troy's character?

• 15:38Speaker 02

  I think so. I think everything you see visually is my memory of prison. I, I spent maybe six months trying to find the right jail, because it had to look the way it looked for me.

• 15:53Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 15:54Speaker 02

  Um, didn't get the prison I wanted, to be honest, but, but that intention made everyone kind of want to get that image out of my head. So we, we kind of designed everything to the way I see it. Like even the, you know, the, the kind of setup of the armbands that the kids are wearing and they're on, you know, advanced beginner and, and, and stuff. That was from my memory.

• 16:14Speaker 01

  Do you want me to start cooking?

• 16:16Jessie Ware?

  Yes, okay. And I actually, whilst mum cooks, I, it feels, I understand why you maybe wanted to distance yourself from these stories. However, I do think it's incredibly profound, you directing something of this, like this subject.

• 16:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:31Jessie Ware?

  And also, we both were involved in a fundraiser for Dusty Knuckle.

• 16:35Speaker 02

  Oh, yes, yes.

• 16:36Jessie Ware?

  I sung there and you spoke.

• 16:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:37Jessie Ware?

  And you spoke and introduced My Old Neighbour on stage to show what Dusty Knuckle, the bakery, does. Max sends his love, by the way.

• 16:46Speaker 02

  I love Matt.

• 16:47Jessie Ware?

  But Dusty Knuckle, I feel like we talk about their sourdough all the time on this, but actually what they do is really amazing and they help reintegrate young offenders. I think it's between eighteen and twenty five.

• 16:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 17:00Jessie Ware?

  Post-prison to feel like they can get back into society, working. So like, you've been doing the work.

• 17:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:07Jessie Ware?

  And you are, you speak about it. You've, you've written a book, like, I understand wanting to separate, but it does feel right for you to do, have done it.

• 17:14Speaker 02

  No, no, a hundred percent. And it.

• 17:15Jessie Ware?

  And it's so affecting.

• 17:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know, and I get that. And I think my avoidance has never been because of like the subject or, you know, what I can do to help. But it's about the box that you get put in sometimes. And as a director coming into it, I was like, this is my opportunity actually to be very selective about what I do with my acting career. At some points, you know, you're like, I've got to pay the bills next month. So you kind of, there's a job you don't really want to do, maybe, but you do it because, you know. And, and I was like, I'm finally in a position kind of financially where I can like, I want to curate this experience and make it what I want it to be. So I've been very picky about it, but I understood the importance of this film.

• 17:56Speaker 02

  And obviously on me directing it with the experience I've had, do you know what I mean? And being able to relate. So, and it was such an amazing process. I mean, just like working with the young new actors.

• 18:08Jessie Ware?

  They were so good.

• 18:09Speaker 02

  Oh, man, I mean, I.

• 18:10Jessie Ware?

  Did you help with casting?

• 18:12Speaker 02

  I did, yeah. It was like a long casting process and, and took um our main, our lead, who plays Troy.

• 18:18Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 18:18Speaker 02

  Um.

• 18:19Jessie Ware?

  He was beauti- it was so beautifully acted.

• 18:21Speaker 02

  He was amazing. It's, it kind of goes back to what I was saying about blocking your blessings because, and he won't hate me saying this because I was spoken to him about it, but I didn't want him.

• 18:31Jessie Ware?

  Oh.

• 18:32Speaker 02

  I was, but because he was too tall. He's like six foot, whatever.

• 18:35Jessie Ware?

  He's next to Stephen Graham.

• 18:37Speaker 02

  Huge. And I was like, he's not going to look right against, you know, I need him to be vulnerable.

• 18:42Jessie Ware?

  But he, that's interesting because I thought of him as quite little until he was next to Stephen in that shot. And I was like, oh my God, but that kind of, that was, had even more impact, I feel, because he was this big guy, but actually he looked like a scared young man.

• 18:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it may, you know, if he could, I knew he could get there. And when he did, it was much more powerful for that, for that reason, really. And um, great actor, just a really, really great actor, instinctive actor. And I was lucky to cast loads of great actors who, all I needed to do really was turn on the camera.

• 19:15Jessie Ware?

  How much of the film was improvised?

• 19:19Speaker 02

  I'd say seventy percent.

• 19:22Jessie Ware?

  Oh.

• 19:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, seventy percent. I mean, I'm an improvist. I come from improvisation.

• 19:26Jessie Ware?

  Oh, God.

• 19:27Speaker 02

  That's how I started an independent film with a director that was like, never made a film before. He'd only done documentary.

• 19:34Jessie Ware?

  Bullet Boy.

• 19:34Speaker 02

  Bullet Boy. So, so did.

• 19:36Jessie Ware?

  Was really, I remember going to the cinema as like, you know, with my husband, who I'm still with, who's a South Londoner. Us being like, got to go and see Ashley. I mean, you were Ashley Walters by that point, but it was like, you know, we, we went to the cinema and it was a brilliant film.

• 19:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:50Jessie Ware?

  And I feel like it totally inspired Top Boy.

• 19:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I feel like it did. I mean, it inspired a lot of films that came after that, I think.

• 19:56Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 19:56Speaker 02

  It was kind of like the start of that sort of genre, if you want to call it that. So, yeah, it was good to be, it was good to be a part of that, but that was a huge inspiration for me and I've had the best times on set with, working with directors that kind of just set up an environment for you to win and just kind of let you go. I mean, adolescence was one of those.

• 20:15Jessie Ware?

  Which also, you know, I know that you don't want to be pigeonholed, but I thought that was so exciting to see you in that role of, of the law.

• 20:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 20:23Jessie Ware?

  And you were so fantastic at it. Like, was it, am I wrong in thinking that that, because you, you did it in all one take, of course.

• 20:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:31Jessie Ware?

  But was it on your episode where you did a take and it was fucking perfect and then something happened at the end?

• 20:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was my episode.

• 20:39Jessie Ware?

  It was your episode?

• 20:40Speaker 02

  The something that happened was me fucking up.

• 20:42Jessie Ware?

  What did you fuck, how, how did you fuck up?

• 20:44Speaker 02

  So, right at the end, you know, in this episode two, at the end, I chased the kid.

• 20:48Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 20:49Speaker 02

  I come back to my car, my son's there, we have that whole conversation. When I saw my son, I called him the kid I was chasing, by the name of the kid I was chasing. So, and that was right at the end and.

• 21:00Jessie Ware?

  Couldn't you have just done a bit of like, um, audio?

• 21:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, Phil came up to me and was like, don't worry, because I was crying. Because I was like, I was like, you know, the weight of that was like, oh, man, I fucked up. And I was so upset and he came in my trailer, he gave me a hug and he was like, don't worry, we can do A D R, it'll be fine. And next day he was like, we can't do A D R. It's done. It's gone. And that was, the next day was our last chance.

• 21:23Jessie Ware?

  Do you, do you think, which take do you think was better?

• 21:28Speaker 02

  The take I said the wrong name on was like.

• 21:31Jessie Ware?

  So annoying.

• 21:32Speaker 02

  Was the one.

• 21:33Jessie Ware?

  Mate, well, you were still fantastic. That episode is like, yeah, it's a fantastic episode. You're only human, Ashley.

• 21:41Speaker 02

  No, I know, I know. I like to, I try and be perfect.

• 21:43Jessie Ware?

  Oh, so annoying. Um, well, we should talk about food a bit.

• 21:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:47Jessie Ware?

  Um, okay, so let's talk about.

• 21:48Speaker 02

  Smells good.

• 21:49Jessie Ware?

  Let's talk about Peckham. Who was around the dinner table? What is a memorable dish from your childhood?

• 21:56Speaker 02

  Uh, memorable dish from my childhood would be, mum's gonna kill me for this, but spag bol.

• 22:04Jessie Ware?

  Why is mum gonna kill you?

• 22:06Speaker 02

  Well, because.

• 22:06Jessie Ware?

  Was it mum's spag bol?

• 22:08Speaker 02

  It was mum's spag bol and it was great spag bol. Um.

• 22:11Jessie Ware?

  Would, would she have liked you to have said?

• 22:13Speaker 02

  She probably would have wanted me to talk about her more like refined dishes and stuff like that. Um.

• 22:20Jessie Ware?

  Bol's so perfect.

• 22:21Speaker 02

  That was comfort food for me. And when I smelt it in the house, you know, the memory of that and the warmth of it and kind of how easy it is to kind of plate up for everyone and eat. I mean, we didn't do too much sitting down at tables to eat.

• 22:35Jessie Ware?

  Were you watching telly? Were you eating alone?

• 22:37Speaker 02

  I was eating alone. I'm, I'm my mum's only child and my dad's sixth, um, child. Um. So, at home was pretty lonely.

• 22:48Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 22:48Speaker 02

  If I'm honest. And I, I kind of really learnt to, to love my own company, to be fair. So, it was get my food from the kitchen, go into my room, you know. Homework and eat and stuff.

• 22:58Jessie Ware?

  Okay. So, usually if you were around the table, would it be you and your mum then? Yeah.

• 23:02Speaker 02

  It'd be me, my mum, my stepdad was around at the time, my mum's partner at the time. And yeah, just us three, like, you know, shooting the breeze really. I have a really cool relationship with my mum. Although she was really strict, she taught me to have conversations.

• 23:20Jessie Ware?

  Mm-hmm.

• 23:20Speaker 02

  So, anything that happened in my day was, there was like an extensive conversation about it. Anything that had gone wrong, if I was five minutes late, it was like.

• 23:29Jessie Ware?

  Interrogation?

• 23:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like, how, what happened in those five minutes? Well, it's just the bus. Well, what could you do better next time to make sure? You know, that was my life.

• 23:37Jessie Ware?

  How are you as a parent?

• 23:39Speaker 02

  The same.

• 23:39Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 23:40Speaker 02

  It's rubbed off. But a bit more, I guess there's a lot of guilt for me because I'm away a lot. You know, I mean, and since adolescence, I've maybe been at home three months.

• 23:51Jessie Ware?

  Is that because of the success of it? You're booked and busy, baby?

• 23:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. So, it's not, it's not, not complaint, you know, being booked is amazing, but it's tough, you know, and you miss, you miss key moments. You miss things. My, my, my ten year old son, he's like, we're really close.

• 24:06Jessie Ware?

  Hmm.

• 24:07Speaker 02

  So, I know he kind of suffers when I'm not around and stuff, so. You know, like, I'm really, I try my best not to be critical, like too judgmental, too, you know, too strict, I guess, but you have to be a parent as well, don't you?

• 24:21Jessie Ware?

  I'm, I'm, I'm the boring strict one.

• 24:23Speaker 02

  Are you?

• 24:23Jessie Ware?

  I am, and I'm the one that goes away more, um, because I sing as well. So, I, um, yeah, I, mum thinks I'm way too strict, but.

• 24:34Speaker 02

  Well, that's great.

• 24:35Jessie Ware?

  I want them to have good manners. Obviously, I want them to be happy, but I do think it's interesting. I've got a ten year old too. She's my eldest and I feel they kind of, even more so now, they need us. I feel like this kind of time.

• 24:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:50Jessie Ware?

  Where they're working stuff out, of course, boys as well. I feel like that's, I'm terrified about my boys being a bit older too, but, but yeah, it's a pivotal time.

• 24:59Speaker 02

  I know, I know, I know exactly what you're saying. My daughter is twelve and it's like, she's like seventeen or something.

• 25:07Jessie Ware?

  Does she still want to hang out with you?

• 25:10Speaker 02

  It, it's, it's stopping now. She's still, like, she still sees me as cool.

• 25:15Jessie Ware?

  Oh, that's good.

• 25:16Speaker 02

  And her, her friends like come to the house and be like.

• 25:20Jessie Ware?

  Oh, really?

• 25:21Speaker 02

  You know, because they, they kind of know as well. So, it's kept me in good stead with, with her.

• 25:25Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, great.

• 25:25Speaker 02

  But she's getting, you know, hard to, she's getting cheeky.

• 25:29Jessie Ware?

  Oh.

• 25:29Speaker 02

  She's getting cheeky.

• 25:30Jessie Ware?

  You want a strong, you want a strong woman, right?

• 25:32Speaker 02

  I love it. I love it. I love it. Mummy doesn't like it too much.

• 25:35Jessie Ware?

  Can we talk about your wife?

• 25:36Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 25:37Jessie Ware?

  I loved her in Chewing Gum.

• 25:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, she was amazing.

• 25:40Jessie Ware?

  She's amazing.

• 25:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 25:43Jessie Ware?

  Is she doing any projects at the moment?

• 25:45Speaker 02

  She is. She's doing bits and bobs here and there. I mean, she's, she's really dedicated to her acting career.

• 25:50Jessie Ware?

  I loved her in that so much.

• 25:52Speaker 02

  I think for, for women, especially for black women in, in the industry, it's really tough. If you're, you know, you go away, you, you kind of stop for a bit to have a child. It's like starting from square one. When you come back, it's really hard to build it up. And so, we, we've really been kind of dedicating a lot of space and time for her now to kind of push a bit more. So, she's writing, she's producing, she's kind of trying to push herself in that way and she's working here and there. So, but she's great.

• 26:19Jessie Ware?

  Have you got a production company?

• 26:20Speaker 02

  I do, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 26:21Jessie Ware?

  You, do, do you work together then?

• 26:24Speaker 02

  No.

• 26:25Jessie Ware?

  That's not gonna, that's not gonna happen.

• 26:26Speaker 02

  We haven't yet. Not that I wouldn't, not that I wouldn't. I know it would be difficult. I know it would be difficult. We are that couple. We're a fiery couple. We debate a lot, we bicker a lot, you know, we have that sort of energy and it scares me, kind of working with her.

• 26:41Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 26:41Speaker 02

  Although I know I would, I, I would love to do it. I think it would be great for both of us. And she's my best friend. I always think about like awards and stuff and my speech in my head would always be dedicated to her because the sacrifices that she's made, you know, throughout the process of me getting there and also my, you know, my, my addiction and my sobriety troubles and stuff like that. So, like, we've been through a lot and she sacrificed a lot for me to do what I'm, I'm doing. So, I would love to kind of be in a space with, with her, where we could work together like that.

• 27:13Jessie Ware?

  Can you cook?

• 27:16Speaker 02

  I feel like I can.

• 27:17Jessie Ware?

  Like, if we were coming around, what are you cooking us?

• 27:19Speaker 02

  Probably be like a surf and turf.

• 27:21Jessie Ware?

  Ooh.

• 27:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, it could be simple, like.

• 27:23Jessie Ware?

  That looks great, mum.

• 27:25Speaker 02

  It looks beautiful.

• 27:26Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 27:26Speaker 02

  I don't, I don't believe you could just cook that. No way.

• 27:30Jessie Ware?

  Yes, I mean, there's a bit of prep. There's a little bit of prep. We've been, we've been doing this for about ten years now, so we've learned the hard way. Like, when we had loyal Connor and we were frying laccas whilst he was here for the whole episode, we've learnt that you have to prep. I say, doing none of the prep.

• 27:47Speaker 02

  This looks beautiful.

• 27:48Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, it looks gorgeous, mum.

• 27:49Speaker 01

  It's sea bass with a, a salsa and a tomato salad with an anchovy dressing and just green beans and potatoes done with.

• 27:58Jessie Ware?

  This looks so gorgeous, mum.

• 28:00Speaker 01

  I hope so.

• 28:00Speaker 02

  Beautiful.

• 28:01Jessie Ware?

  Do you want to know what mum nearly made you until she read the notes?

• 28:04Speaker 02

  What was it?

• 28:04Speaker 01

  I'd ordered, and we have five minutes on the Ocado cut off. I do, I hadn't read the notes and I read, I was just reading the whole notes that we got. Lactose intolerant. I thought, fuck.

• 28:17Speaker 02

  What were you gonna make?

• 28:17Speaker 01

  Fish pie with a pint of milking and Parmesan cheese and then cheesecake with sour cream.

• 28:24Jessie Ware?

  Thank God.

• 28:24Speaker 01

  It would have killed you.

• 28:26Jessie Ware?

  You would, I don't know what.

• 28:27Speaker 01

  You wouldn't have eaten it.

• 28:28Speaker 02

  No, I would have.

• 28:29Jessie Ware?

  What would have happened after? You would have died or shut yourself?

• 28:31Speaker 02

  Gosh, yeah, I would have shut, I would have shut myself in the car and went home, basically.

• 28:34Speaker 01

  Just help yourself.

• 28:35Speaker 02

  I would have done that for you.

• 28:36Jessie Ware?

  That's really, thank you, thank you.

• 28:38Speaker 02

  Thank you so much.

• 28:39Jessie Ware?

  So, okay, we're talking about what Ashley would cook for us if we were coming over.

• 28:44Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 28:44Jessie Ware?

  And it's surf and turf.

• 28:45Speaker 02

  Surf and turf. I love a surf and turf. A good piece of, um, a good steak.

• 28:50Jessie Ware?

  Yeah. How are you, how long are you cooking yours for?

• 28:53Speaker 02

  I'm a medium, medium temperature sort of guy.

• 28:57Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 28:57Speaker 02

  And, yeah, lovely, lovely half a lobster with like some garlic, some garlic sauce.

• 29:04Speaker 01

  Someone else talked about lobster. It was Stephen Graham.

• 29:07Speaker 02

  I love lobster. I live by, I live by the sea and I'm moved by the sea for that reason.

• 29:13Jessie Ware?

  For the lobster?

• 29:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, um, there's an actor called, uh, Tanya Frank. Do you know her?

• 29:17Jessie Ware?

  Maybe I know by face.

• 29:19Speaker 02

  Great, great actress. And she was in Chewing Gum, but she would, she lives in Whitstable.

• 29:25Jessie Ware?

  Oh, yeah.

• 29:26Speaker 02

  And she would invite us down and she was like, just come down on weekends. And, you know, they have like the largest oyster farm in Europe. It's just all seafood orientated and we spent so many summer weekends there just eating oysters and drinking beer when I drank. And then we decided to move there. Couldn't afford it, so picked the next town on, which was Hearn Bay, and I've lived there for seven years now.

• 29:50Jessie Ware?

  And that's got the best crab, hasn't it?

• 29:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, best crab. It's beautiful. So, I moved, I moved there for oysters, basically. I'm a big, huge fan of oysters.

• 29:58Jessie Ware?

  Mum can't get into them.

• 29:59Speaker 01

  No, I can't really.

• 30:01Jessie Ware?

  Have you?

• 30:02Speaker 01

  But I do like lobster.

• 30:03Jessie Ware?

  This is lovely, mum.

• 30:04Speaker 02

  Gorgeous.

• 30:06Speaker 02

  I love a good bit of sea bass, this is amazing.

• 30:09Jessie Ware?

  God, Stephen got it right. You and Stephen are quite kind. I know you're long time friends now and collaborators. But you could have a lovely date night with Stephen, because he loves oysters and he loves lobster. So there we go.

• 30:20Speaker 01

  And his wife.

• 30:21Jessie Ware?

  And his wife, and he loves his wife.

• 30:22Speaker 02

  He loves him a bit of Anna.

• 30:24Jessie Ware?

  Okay, so you're gonna do a surf and turf. Are you a sweet kind of guy?

• 30:29Speaker 02

  Nah, you don't, you don't get body like this eating sweets.

• 30:32Jessie Ware?

  Oh, boring, Ashley.

• 30:33Speaker 02

  Only joking, I, I, I'm a huge fan of sweets.

• 30:36Jessie Ware?

  So you have to stop them?

• 30:37Speaker 02

  It is my problem. Chocolate and like gelatin, you know, like jelly, jelly sweets, like Haribo and, and sometime, I mean, some weeks I can do like a pack of Haribo a night.

• 30:49Jessie Ware?

  But I guess like you're not, you're not, but it's, you're not drinking anymore.

• 30:53Speaker 02

  No, no, no.

• 30:54Jessie Ware?

  And you know.

• 30:55Speaker 01

  You need sugar.

• 30:56Speaker 02

  I need sugar, basically, that's what it is.

• 31:08Jessie Ware?

  Last supper, you're going, I don't, I don't think we'll do Death Row today. Stephen was like, let's do Death Row, I know this one. Desert Island for a very long time. Starter, main, Pudd, drink of choice?

• 31:22Speaker 02

  Um, starter would have to be oysters.

• 31:27Jessie Ware?

  Okay, how are you taking them?

• 31:27Speaker 02

  I live next door to Whistable, which is a great oyster farm. So I'd have like, like six natives.

• 31:35Jessie Ware?

  Okay, are they the big ones?

• 31:36Speaker 02

  No, they're the smaller ones.

• 31:38Jessie Ware?

  I can do the, I can do the smalls.

• 31:39Speaker 02

  Cute, small ones. And then maybe like six, like, what do they call them, like Jersey Rocks?

• 31:43Jessie Ware?

  Okay, they're the big ones.

• 31:44Speaker 02

  The bigger ones, yeah.

• 31:45Speaker 01

  Do you put hot sauce on or?

• 31:46Jessie Ware?

  You do twelve oysters in a sitting?

• 31:48Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, easy, easy.

• 31:50Jessie Ware?

  How are you having them with?

• 31:52Speaker 02

  I'm having them with like some vinegar, vinaigrette, um, and loads of Tabasco.

• 31:57Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 31:57Speaker 02

  And I have loads of Tabasco. I like it hot and spicy. So that would be for my starter.

• 32:03Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 32:03Speaker 02

  My main has to be laksa.

• 32:07Jessie Ware?

  What?

• 32:07Speaker 01

  Oh. Oh, I love a laksa. I could have made that for you.

• 32:11Speaker 02

  Laksa is, is beautiful. I mean, it is, there's cream in there, so it's.

• 32:15Jessie Ware?

  But coconut cream now or?

• 32:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I mean, whatever cream it is, I, I'd still risk it for a laksa. I had a place, it's called, um.

• 32:23Speaker 01

  Drink some water.

• 32:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, please. Um, Sambal Shik. It was on, it's on Holloway Road, it was on Holloway Road, because it recently shut down after eight, eight years. And there was a chef there called, um, Mandy Yin, who used to make the, the laksa there. So I'd get one before every Arsenal game. And it's just like beautiful comfort food, man. I love it, like the broth and, you know, drink it and.

• 32:46Jessie Ware?

  Have you ever tried to make it?

• 32:48Speaker 02

  Never, never.

• 32:49Speaker 01

  Oh gosh, this sugar.

• 32:49Jessie Ware?

  It's like a paste, you can like, it's not too.

• 32:51Speaker 01

  Jesse, the Sugar Club cookbook is, makes a fabulous laksa.

• 32:54Jessie Ware?

  You should try and make one and do it with all the beautiful fish from Kent. Okay, so a laksa. No one's ever done a laksa. Thank you. And then Pudd?

• 33:05Speaker 02

  Um, Pudd, you've already said it actually. My favourite pudding is actually Eat a Mess. And I didn't even know that.

• 33:12Speaker 01

  Jesus, you'd be dead or you'd be on the loo the whole time.

• 33:15Speaker 02

  I mean, I, I very rarely order a dessert, unless it's like a birthday or something, if I'm in a restaurant. But if I was to have a dessert or I had to have one, it would be an Eat a Mess. Because, and a deconstructed one as well.

• 33:28Jessie Ware?

  Oh, okay, fancy.

• 33:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, like I, I had that like, maybe two years ago. I can't remember where. It might have been Soho Farmhouse, you know? And, um, and it was just great, you know, because I, you get a bit of the sweet and then you've got the, like, you know, the.

• 33:43Jessie Ware?

  The crunch.

• 33:43Speaker 02

  Acidicness of the strawberries and all of that.

• 33:46Speaker 01

  So you don't really like any Caribbean food?

• 33:49Speaker 02

  I do, I love Caribbean food, but I wouldn't have it as my last meal because I have it so much.

• 33:52Speaker 01

  Okay, we have it all the time. Which place in Peckham would you go to?

• 33:57Speaker 02

  What for food? Oh, um.

• 33:59Jessie Ware?

  Do you go back there?

• 34:01Speaker 02

  Not recently.

• 34:02Jessie Ware?

  Is your mum still there?

• 34:03Speaker 02

  No, my mum lives in, um, Haggerston now.

• 34:06Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  Oh wow, the other side.

• 34:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, she, she went over before me, way before me. Yeah, yeah. We always had this thing that we would never leave South London. You know, once you're South London, you're always a South Londoner. But she went to East, yeah.

• 34:18Jessie Ware?

  I mean, you're just further south now, so I still feel like you're within.

• 34:21Speaker 02

  I mean, I did North London for a while. My wife is from, um, Old Street.

• 34:25Jessie Ware?

  So, um, yeah, where, like, are there any spots? I'm in, I'm in New Cross, so.

• 34:31Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 34:31Jessie Ware?

  Are there any memorable food places from, um, Peckham that you used to love?

• 34:34Speaker 01

  Such good places in Peckham now.

• 34:35Speaker 02

  No, I didn't, but my mum was so dedicated to, like, how I fell in love with oysters was I bad, I saw oysters on TV. And I said to my mum, so I was like around nine, ten, I was like, I have to have oysters. So every day for like two months, I was battering her about oysters. And she took me to a restaurant here, well, on, on the Common, actually called La Rueda.

• 34:58Jessie Ware?

  La Rueda, the Spanish place.

• 34:58Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah, the Spanish place. And she took me all the way up there from Peckham one evening after work. And she's like, there you go, shut your fucking mouth about oysters, go on here, eat them now.

• 35:08Speaker 01

  It's a nightclub on Friday night, yeah.

• 35:10Speaker 02

  Is it?

• 35:11Jessie Ware?

  Is it still there?

• 35:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's smaller and it's a Spanish restaurant and then they close it all down and they have.

• 35:16Jessie Ware?

  I used to love La Rueda.

• 35:17Speaker 02

  I, I didn't.

• 35:18Jessie Ware?

  Why? Did you get, put people in?

• 35:19Speaker 02

  Because I, because I ordered like a, no, I ordered like a, um, a dozen oysters and I didn't eat one of them.

• 35:26Jessie Ware?

  Oh no.

• 35:27Speaker 02

  Whoa, whoa, like doing all that over the food. And my mum was very upset, I remember that, she wasted her time, but. The point I'm trying to make is she always tried to like push me and push the boundaries, you know, holidays, taking me to different cultural places and whatever, so. I, I really respect her for that. And that's how I had my love for like restaurants and like trying food, you know.

• 35:47Speaker 01

  So which, which place in Hearn Bay do you go to?

• 35:50Speaker 02

  Hearn Bay, um, we, I mean, it's not really great, great restaurants there.

• 35:58Speaker 01

  It's a little sportsman near there.

• 35:59Speaker 02

  The, the sportsman is our go-to, so I was gonna say that, and probably our only go-to. We go there. We've gone there for the last five anniversaries, um, and sportsman is lovely, we love that.

• 36:09Jessie Ware?

  They're so lovely there too.

• 36:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, and they're great people as well.

• 36:12Jessie Ware?

  Okay, we have, um, a few more food questions, Ashley.

• 36:16Speaker 02

  Go for it.

• 36:16Jessie Ware?

  Um, what's so wrong but so right?

• 36:20Speaker 02

  It's gonna be another boring one for you guys. Tyrrells.

• 36:24Jessie Ware?

  Crisps? They're not wrong. What, what flavour?

• 36:28Speaker 02

  Um, sweet chili.

• 36:29Jessie Ware?

  Oh, delicious.

• 36:31Speaker 01

  Why?

• 36:31Speaker 02

  I'm so Moorish, man, but.

• 36:32Jessie Ware?

  They're delicious.

• 36:33Speaker 02

  Calories.

• 36:34Speaker 01

  Bet you never eat those, mate.

• 36:36Jessie Ware?

  You're now sounding boring.

• 36:37Speaker 02

  Uh, no, no, I said it was gonna be boring, I warned you, I was like, everything for me is about. It's not actually about the flavour or anything anymore, it's about, well, it is about it, but it's like, anything that tastes good is bad, isn't it?

• 36:51Jessie Ware?

  Is that, is that from having addiction? Is that like that feeling of like?

• 36:55Speaker 02

  I think the control is from having addiction and I have an addicted personality. You know, I'm, I'm addicted to people, I'm addicted to my job, you know, all that stuff. So I have to be really careful about the things, you know, that's why I can like, I can be in bed and finish a packet of Haribo and be like. It's one in the morning, I could still go shop and get more if I need, you know, that's how my brain works, is that. I should have more and maybe I don't wanna eat them now, but in the morning I might want them, so they should be next to me now. And it's like, it's a really obsessive thing. So when I get into Tyrrells and I might go to someone's house and my, my kids call them Tyrells. And I'm like, it's not a black man, it's not a black man.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  Sounds like Pharrell.

• 37:41Speaker 02

  Daddy, dad, it's Tyrell. It's like, no, it's not your cousin, it's not, it's.

• 37:46Speaker 01

  Do you come from a big family?

• 37:48Speaker 02

  I don't, my family's quite small.

• 37:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, my, it was my mum, my mum's sister, my aunt, um, and my two uncles and my gran.

• 37:58Speaker 01

  So what, what's your celebration meal?

• 38:00Speaker 02

  Celebration meal?

• 38:01Speaker 01

  Like if it was a birthday?

• 38:04Speaker 02

  Um, probably would get into some like, maybe some West Indian food then. I love, I'm, I love curry goat.

• 38:11Jessie Ware?

  Oh, yeah. I think you've just answered. I've got a question. Hold the, hold the phone there. Stephen has a question for you.

• 38:18Speaker 03

  Ash, they'd say it is jerk chicken or curry goat?

• 38:24Speaker 02

  It's a good question.

• 38:25Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 38:25Speaker 01

  Well.

• 38:26Speaker 02

  There's a war over this question in the Caribbean community, but.

• 38:30Speaker 01

  Is there?

• 38:30Speaker 02

  I would definitely pick curry goat.

• 38:33Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 38:34Speaker 02

  Definitely. There's something about it, it's kind of like the spaghetti bolognese and kind of like the laksa, it's like, it's comforting. I love broth and like, and, and soup and stuff like that.

• 38:46Speaker 01

  But people have it for a wedding, don't they? It's a celebration meal, curry goat.

• 38:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I guess so. I mean, like, all Caribbean food is kind of like the worst, it's always like the worst parts of the meat and. You know, because it all comes from people having nothing and, you know, having to make do. But yeah, I love, I love a curry goat. Jerk chicken is good, but it's a bit too common, you know, a bit too commercial.

• 39:09Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 39:09Speaker 02

  So.

• 39:10Jessie Ware?

  Where's the best curry goat?

• 39:12Speaker 02

  Oh, the best curry goat, go to, I'd say, I mean, I probably could get killed for this, but One Love. Do you know One Love in North London? It's on, um, Crouch Hill. It's right by Crouch Hill Station. And it is just sublime. Everything in there is, is levels. You can sit in and eat, but it's more of a takeaway joint. So yeah, that would be my kind of go-to place.

• 39:35Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 39:36Speaker 01

  I'm gonna clear the table and get some dessert.

• 39:38Jessie Ware?

  Well, I can do that.

• 39:38Speaker 02

  Thank you so much.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  You might have to help me because it'll take me a while.

• 39:41Jessie Ware?

  That's okay. Yeah, it's fine.

• 39:47Speaker 02

  Ooh.

• 39:49Speaker 02

  This looks gorge.

• 39:50Speaker 01

  So it's an apple and apricot warm cake.

• 39:54Speaker 02

  Beautiful.

• 39:55Speaker 01

  Without any, it might not be, who knows. Help yourself.

• 39:59Speaker 02

  Shall we test it?

• 40:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:01Speaker 02

  I'm gonna go small first.

• 40:02Speaker 01

  Go small, I think.

• 40:04Jessie Ware?

  No, it's fine.

• 40:05Speaker 01

  I'm not offended at all. It might be horrible.

• 40:08Jessie Ware?

  I mean.

• 40:09Speaker 01

  It's very crumbly.

• 40:10Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, what is it made with oil then?

• 40:12Speaker 01

  It's made with oil and.

• 40:14Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 40:15Speaker 01

  Thank you. And, oh, it's quite brown. It's probably from the apple. There are a lot of apples in. And you put apricot jam in and apple sauce.

• 40:27Jessie Ware?

  Ooh.

• 40:29Jessie Ware?

  Oh mum.

• 40:30Speaker 01

  Is it nice?

• 40:30Jessie Ware?

  Quite autumnal.

• 40:31Speaker 01

  Do you want ice cream? Do you want normal ice cream or do you want to be?

• 40:35Speaker 02

  It smells American.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  Does it?

• 40:37Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 40:38Speaker 02

  Like.

• 40:38Jessie Ware?

  This could be in Gilmore Girls.

• 40:40Speaker 02

  Gonna kill me.

• 40:41Speaker 01

  Does it?

• 40:42Jessie Ware?

  Well, you know.

• 40:44Speaker 02

  Not because it's bad, but because it's sweet.

• 40:46Jessie Ware?

  Let's enjoy it, shall we, Ashley?

• 40:48Speaker 01

  It's an American recipe. It's an American recipe.

• 40:52Speaker 02

  We've got to let this melt a bit, don't we?

• 40:55Speaker 01

  What's it taste like?

• 40:56Jessie Ware?

  This is a great recipe. What do we think, Ashley?

• 40:59Speaker 02

  It's lovely. It's sweet.

• 41:00Speaker 01

  Very sweet.

• 41:01Jessie Ware?

  Too happy.

• 41:02Speaker 02

  It's beautiful.

• 41:02Speaker 01

  I think it's too sweet, I think.

• 41:04Jessie Ware?

  It's cosy.

• 41:07Jessie Ware?

  It's like, hunker down, it's autumn. Where's the recipe from?

• 41:11Speaker 01

  New York Times.

• 41:12Jessie Ware?

  It's good. Back to Animal.

• 41:15Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 41:16Jessie Ware?

  When is it released?

• 41:17Speaker 02

  It's gonna be at the BFI. Um, the 11th of October is our launch, our premiere. And then actual release, the 30th of October will be in the cinemas.

• 41:26Jessie Ware?

  How are you gonna celebrate?

• 41:28Speaker 02

  Kind of hide.

• 41:30Jessie Ware?

  Oh, really?

• 41:30Speaker 02

  That's what I do.

• 41:31Jessie Ware?

  Really?

• 41:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm like. I'm really, I get really nervous about like projects I do, acting or directing, because you're always. You know, it's really enthusiastic doing it and it's like, it's all about the craft. And then at some point, as a director especially, you realise I have to give this to the world now. And then I had no longer have any control over what people say about it, what they do. And it just kind of goes into the ether and. So I, that process was really hard for me. I think I stayed in the edit longer than I needed to because I was like, I don't want to do the next bit. I don't want people to judge me.

• 42:07Jessie Ware?

  But that's like making an album too. I don't know, like, it's that thing of like, you're like, hang on, is it ready? Is it ever ready? Is it ever finished? But.

• 42:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, the same, same thing.

• 42:16Jessie Ware?

  Being afraid.

• 42:16Speaker 02

  Um, but you know, as a new director, it's a new piece of work. You know that if it's not great, it could mean a big struggle for you after to kind of get your next one off the go. But I think, yeah, I feel, I feel like I made a movie. I definitely made a film. I mean, it's, you can watch it.

• 42:34Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, mate, you, you can, you, it is fantastic and it is arresting. And the performances, which you obviously, you know, helped these young actors.

• 42:47Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 42:49Jessie Ware?

  Create like such brilliant characters and it, you, that, that's on you, I think, like. And so I think, congratulations.

• 42:57Speaker 02

  No, thank you. I, I have to get used to that as well. I think humility as a director, it doesn't really work. You know, when you're like, you don't want to accept the.

• 43:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, you've got to be confident.

• 43:10Speaker 02

  And whatever. Um, directing is all about your vision and it's all about pushing your vision. And one thing, I think a few family members came to see it, not really in the film or TV world. And after they said, it felt like every one of those actors were, they were acting like you. Like I see you acting. So it kind of made me think, I was like, okay, so I pretty much. Put a bit of myself in each of these performances somehow, which I think is, yeah, is great. And to, to have the ability to do that and to have great actors that are willing to let you kind of push them a bit. It was, it was amazing.

• 43:47Jessie Ware?

  Were, were you tempted to like have a cameo in it at any time?

• 43:51Speaker 02

  Stephen's part was written for me.

• 43:53Jessie Ware?

  Interesting.

• 43:54Speaker 02

  It was, it was. He won't mind me saying it. Um, so it was up until I asked Steve to do it. Because I just didn't want to take the risk of being in something that I was directing. Would, would the directing side of it lose a bit? Because, you know, I'm focused on that, so. So I asked Steve, um, and he jumped at the chance. Obviously he read the script and loved it, but. Yeah, before that, Nick was like, this is, it's your part, you know, it's your part, it's your part.

• 44:21Jessie Ware?

  Did you, did you make this post adolescence?

• 44:24Speaker 02

  Post adolescence? No, no, it was way before.

• 44:26Jessie Ware?

  Oh, interesting.

• 44:27Speaker 02

  We've had this film. The film was written in 2020, 2019, 2020.

• 44:35Jessie Ware?

  When did you shoot it?

• 44:36Speaker 02

  We shot it a year and a half ago.

• 44:38Speaker 01

  It's kind of timeless though, isn't it?

• 44:41Speaker 02

  It is, it is. You know, I didn't want it to feel like set in any sort of space of time really, but. You know, the time period for him is like 65 days in the film, so it spends.

• 44:54Speaker 01

  What, what next?

• 44:56Speaker 02

  What next?

• 44:57Speaker 01

  More directing or acting?

• 44:59Speaker 02

  Um, both really. Um, since adolescence, just before I did adolescence, I was thinking about quitting. Um, acting and I wanted to like direct, just direct, basically.

• 45:13Jessie Ware?

  Because you were fatigued by Top Boy. I listened to.

• 45:16Speaker 02

  I was fatigued by anxiety. Um, I'm an anxious actor. And like even coming here for me, I had a panic attack in the car. I was like driving down there, I'm like, ah.

• 45:24Speaker 01

  Oh gosh.

• 45:25Speaker 02

  You know, you start sweating and you're like, oh, God, I can't do this. Doing my breathing exercises. By the time I got here, I was fine. But acting for me was like that, is like that every day. You know, that's what I go through in the morning. I wake up and it could be a job that I'm loving. But it's like to get to work and to actually leave is a lot because I know how tense it's gonna be for me. And I bring a lot of it home. So I was getting to the point where I was like. I don't know whether I really want to do this anymore or how much I'm enjoying it. And I love directing, like as chaotic as it is, it's so peaceful for me. Um, I really enjoy being behind the camera, answering all the questions and, you know, just doing what I do. So. I was, I was nearly there and then adolescence came.

• 46:08Speaker 02

  And since the award kind of run that we did and I've just been getting really good offers for work. So I've had to change my plan, but.

• 46:18Jessie Ware?

  Is the anxiety still there though?

• 46:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, still there.

• 46:20Speaker 01

  Can you take Peter Blocker?

• 46:22Jessie Ware?

  I think he does breathe breath work instead.

• 46:25Speaker 01

  But, okay, or what Stephen's retreat?

• 46:29Jessie Ware?

  He, Muji, the guru Muji.

• 46:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, Stephen is very, very spiritual and I'm kind of maybe 25, I have like maybe 25, 30% of his spirituality. But he shares a lot of it with me. But my, that's what my life kind of revolves around, a lot of like meditation, a lot of prayer and stuff.

• 46:47Jessie Ware?

  Um, that kind of blows my mind that you still get so, I mean, I, it's because you care, of course, but I just thought me.

• 46:54Speaker 01

  Well, I don't know whether you should, if you enjoy doing something else and.

• 46:58Jessie Ware?

  And it makes you less stressed out.

• 46:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, that was the thing, that was the thing.

• 47:01Speaker 01

  But set the good roles, how are you gonna turn them down?

• 47:05Speaker 02

  Love, I love like, I don't necessarily love the process of acting, but I love seeing the end product.

• 47:13Speaker 01

  You're so good.

• 47:14Speaker 02

  Well, thank you.

• 47:15Speaker 01

  You'd be such a shame.

• 47:16Speaker 02

  Maybe I need to believe that myself. That might help my anxiety. Because a lot of anxiety for a lot of actors is about.

• 47:24Jessie Ware?

  Impostor.

• 47:24Speaker 02

  You're in front of a camera, there's 50 people on the other side of it. And all, sometimes all I can think about is what do they think?

• 47:31Jessie Ware?

  Of course.

• 47:31Speaker 02

  And what are they thinking? You know, everyone's just staring at you. Sometimes they're like that. You know, they're probably talking about their day last week or football or whatever. But to you in that moment, you're like, I'm not good. Maybe they're doubting me and, you know, and a lot of that goes through your head. So, well, for me anyway, I shouldn't speak for everyone.

• 47:49Jessie Ware?

  And all your characters that I've seen you in, they're so. I mean, there's so much to all of them and I think you're a brilliant actor. And I think that, I don't know, when you start believing that, I mean, you must deep down know that you.

• 48:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm milking it a bit.

• 48:09Speaker 01

  People wouldn't offer you stuff if you were shit, would they?

• 48:12Speaker 02

  No, that, well, I mean.

• 48:15Speaker 01

  I mean, you are handsome, but besides that, you're a great actor.

• 48:19Jessie Ware?

  Um, before we let you go, Ashley, congratulations on everything.

• 48:24Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 48:24Jessie Ware?

  It's been so wonderful hearing you speak and you speaking so openly about everything. So thank you.

• 48:30Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 48:30Jessie Ware?

  What is a nostalgic taste that can transport you back somewhere, happy or sad?

• 48:36Speaker 02

  There's two things, but I will go with cherry drops.

• 48:40Speaker 01

  Oh, I love cherry drops.

• 48:42Jessie Ware?

  Love cherry drops.

• 48:43Speaker 02

  Remind me of, um, school. Just, I used to buy a hatch. Well, like from 11 to like 13, secondary school.

• 48:51Speaker 01

  Can I ask you, if you have people around for dinner, what sort of soundtrack do you have on in the background? What music is it?

• 49:01Speaker 02

  I am like, I'm a huge jazz man. Um, Italian jazz, like specifically, specifically. Probably, I mean, like my favourite probably artist was Piero Ummiliani.

• 49:16Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 49:16Speaker 02

  And he has like a, yeah, he's got, um.

• 49:21Speaker 02

  A beautiful album. What's it called? La, La Legge, La Legge, La Legge, La Legge de Gangsters. Um, it's an amazing album.

• 49:32Jessie Ware?

  What's the name? Piero?

• 49:34Speaker 02

  Piero Ummiliani.

• 49:35Jessie Ware?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 49:37Speaker 02

  Um, and he has a, there's a beautiful song he has called, uh, I think it's Crepse Culo Sumare or something.

• 49:45Jessie Ware?

  Yes, Crepse Culo Sumare.

• 49:49Speaker 01

  And who would you have at the dinner table, dead or alive, someone?

• 49:53Speaker 02

  Um, ah, that's a question. I'm about to bury my uncle on, on Monday.

• 50:00Jessie Ware?

  Sorry.

• 50:00Speaker 02

  So probably my unks, my uncle. Um, and my granny I lost earlier on this year and I was, you know, she was mum to me when my mum had me. So we had a really close relationship. It'd be nice to dine with them one more time. Yeah.

• 50:14Jessie Ware?

  Ashley, thanks so much.

• 50:15Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 50:16Jessie Ware?

  Good luck with Animal.

• 50:17Speaker 02

  Thank you so much.

• 50:18Jessie Ware?

  I think you're gonna be fine.

• 50:19Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 50:20Jessie Ware?

  And I think you are gonna have to carry on acting though, but you can do both.

• 50:23Speaker 02

  Cool.

• 50:23Jessie Ware?

  Okay, cool.

• 50:24Speaker 02

  Excellent.

• 50:24Jessie Ware?

  Great.

• 50:38Jessie Ware?

  Ashley Walters on Table manners. He was such a great guest.

• 50:42Speaker 01

  Gorgeous, a delightful, delightful person.

• 50:45Jessie Ware?

  I really appreciated how open he was and how much he shared with us.

• 50:52Speaker 01

  He's so interesting. He's lived, he really has lived a life.

• 50:55Jessie Ware?

  Yes, he has and you like it when they live a life, don't you?

• 50:58Speaker 01

  Someone's lived a life.

• 50:59Jessie Ware?

  Ashley's directorial debut, Animol, is out on the 30th of October. It's a brilliant watch, painful, beautiful, heartbreaking. Um, and I think it's quite, I think it's quite important.

• 51:12Speaker 01

  And very touching.

• 51:14Jessie Ware?

  Absolutely. Mum, the food was delish.

• 51:18Speaker 01

  Was it?

• 51:18Jessie Ware?

  I thought that was a really good recipe.

• 51:21Speaker 01

  The, the sea bass?

• 51:22Jessie Ware?

  Thrilled. He, he had two sea basses.

• 51:24Speaker 01

  I don't usually like sea bass, but that was quite nice, wasn't it? What's her name? I've got the cookbook.

• 51:29Jessie Ware?

  Alexandra Dudley has done it again.

• 51:32Speaker 01

  She sent me her cookbook.

• 51:34Jessie Ware?

  It's.

• 51:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:35Jessie Ware?

  It's a really good dish.

• 51:36Speaker 01

  So good, yeah.

• 51:37Jessie Ware?

  Um, no, really delicious and I loved that pudding.

• 51:41Speaker 01

  Did you?

• 51:42Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 51:43Speaker 01

  See, I wasn't sure about it, so I put cinnamon and icing sugar on the top. Cause I want.

• 51:49Jessie Ware?

  Ooh.

• 51:49Speaker 01

  Because I just wondered whether it needed a little bit more of a kick. But it looks like I've used brown sugar, but I didn't. It's just apples.

• 51:57Jessie Ware?

  It's really, it's a lovely, lovely dish.

• 51:59Speaker 01

  Good. Take some home.

• 52:01Jessie Ware?

  Okay. Thank you to Ashley for coming on and we will see you next week for more Table Manners. Don't forget to subscribe.