1047: Adobe has a big problem

Someone just clean-room ported seven Adobe apps to Rust, and Wes is shocked at how good it is. Scott and Wes break down what it gets right, what’s still missing, and why copying software is easy but inventing what comes next is the hard part. Show Notes 00:00 Welcome to Syntax! 00:12 Adobe Is in Trouble: A Clean Room Port of the Entire Suite ArtCraft 02:22 Scott’s Long Running Adobe Grudge Since 2017 03:42 Figma Is Not a Raster Tool: Why Every Alternative Falls Short 04:40 Opening Real Photoshop Files: Masks, Half Tones and Blend Modes PhotoCraft Github 06:30 What Clean Room Porting Actually Means 09:54 A Familiar Interface, Entirely Built in Rust 10:15 Don’t Trash the Whole Thing Over One or Two Bugs 12:14 What’s Missing: Artboards and the Tiny UI Interactions 13:53 Where Are the Vibe Coded Photoshops? Four Months Later 14:33 Figma’s Locked Down MCP and the Backlash 17:22 Dylan’s Clap Back at Anthropic’s Own Closed Ecosystem 18:08 The Real Photoshop Replacement Will Be a New Way of Working 21:35 Good UI Is Still the Moat 22:28 Caring About Your Project Past Two Days 23:05 Audio Crackles and Paper Cuts: The Bugs Only Humans Chase 24:56 Brought to you by Sentry! 26:28 Copying Is Easy: The Hard Part Is Inventing What Comes Next 27:28 DaVinci Resolve Keeps Shipping Useful Releases 28:26 Sick Picks + Shameless Plugs Sick Picks Scott: KWS V2 Rack Wes: Insta360 Luna Hit us up on Socials! Syntax: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Wes: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Scott: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Randy: X Instagram YouTube Threads

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Wes Bos?

  Adobe is in trouble. This company has taken the entire Adobe suite and clean room ported every single thing Photoshop, Illustrator, Premiere, Lightroom, Print, what is that? InDesign, what's their animation?

• 0:15Scott Tolinski?

  After Effects.

• 0:16Wes Bos?

  And DesignCraft, that maybe that one is InDesign. Anyways, they have like vibes, slop forked, whatever you're gonna call it, every single Adobe app from the Adobe suite. And normally I see this type of thing and I go, yeah, right. You know, it's not any good, you know? And before you turn this off, because I hate how obnoxious all these AI bros are, where like, X just killed Y. And then it turns out the person talking doesn't know anything about X or Y. But I have been a Photoshop user for 25 years. I've tried all of the alternatives, you know, PhotoP, GIMP, Affinity. I have, I've tried them all and they're not as good.

• 0:59Wes Bos?

  Believe me, I would love to stop paying $80 a month for the Adobe suite. I just, nothing has, has come close to it. However, this thing rolled out the, yesterday, and I installed it. And I was like, yeah, right. Let's open it up. I threw some of my biggest Photoshop files that I have, or maybe not biggest ones, but some of my more recent ones. And let me tell you, it worked very well. I was very surprised. And first of all, it opens faster than Photoshop. It implements, we'll talk about the feature parity. It's not quite there just yet, but to tell you, I'm shocked at how good and fast this is. I had another one of those like,

• 1:43Wes Bos?

  holy smokes moments with this type of thing. So the show today is, we're going to have a conversation about kind of like where we're at with our industry. Is this stuff okay? Should you even be like vibe coding and an exact copy of something? Or is the next iteration of software just something, something totally different? So I think it's going to be kind of a cool demo and a good conversation about like, where is software even at where you can make something that is significantly better than any Photoshop alternative I have ever seen in, I look back at the commits, two weeks, all while doing the rest of the Adobe suite, which is absolutely nuts.

• 2:22Scott Tolinski?

  Yes, I'm so excited. I'm a famous Adobe hater. July 6th, 2017, I published a video on the Level Up Tutorials channel, how to mostly ditch Adobe. Because I was fed up with Adobe and it's, it's funny, Wes, I don't know if you would believe this, but I have not opened Photoshop on my computer since 2017, which is when we started this podcast. And I made that video because I was so annoyed with the Dune Creative Cloud thing that's always running and the updates and the logins and the can't, our dark patterns are on cancellations. So me, I've replaced all of my things in the Creative

• 3:04Scott Tolinski?

  Cloud with kind of worse alternatives, with the exception of that being DaVinci Resolve and Figma being better than Illustrator to me and Premiere. But the other ones, Photoshop, you know, that, that's never really had a good replacement. I've tried Affinity Photo. I've had that installed forever now. I've tried GIMP. I've tried all of the ones that people say to use and I've never been super happy with any of them. So I'm really interested to see how good this is. Maybe this is the alternative that I've been waiting for since 2017.

• 3:41Wes Bos?

  Yes. And like, I love Figma. I use Figma for most of my like, like web design stuff, but Figma is not a raster tool. And if you want to make like nice blending modes and things like that, there's, there is no equivalent tool with this type of thing, right? Like, yeah, there's, there's no raster based alternative in Figma for this type of stuff. And for, for a lot of the designs that I do, whether it's t-shirt designs, or whether that's just like little textures and whatnot, for like even for the syntax website has a lot of texture on it. Like that stuff does not look good as a vector. And same thing with like all of the print stuff. We have a syntax skateboard. The whole box is designed in Illustrator. It's just, it's not a

• 4:26Wes Bos?

  good, you can't design print in Figma. The whole thing just, just spins away and crashes, right? And anybody who tells you that there is better alternatives is not actually a professional user of these types of things, because it's just not a good alternative. So when I cracked this thing open, I was like, yeah, right. It can't be that good. But I opened it up and I opened up quite a few of my existing Photoshop files and all of like, this is, this is one thing that I have. This is a custom like half tone thing. Let me turn off all of my visuals on here, right? Like this is, this is just a stupid little thing. This is not an actual design, but I have all of

• 5:08Wes Bos?

  these filters that I layer on top of each other to get this sort of like half tone effect on here. And this is eight stacked different effects of patterns, gradient maps, levels, black and white, variance, random variance. These are all things that are in Photoshop. And then each of them has different blend modes that blend into each other. And then one of the layers is masked over top of it. And it exactly perfectly, right? Like if you look back at our Mad CSS thumbnail, the only thing in this thumbnail, right? There's, there's lots of masks in here. There's lots of effects, drop shadow. The only thing is that it didn't get the texture on the drop shadow exactly

• 5:49Wes Bos?

  how it would look like in Photoshop. So like, I'm surprised at how good this is. It opens up faster than Photoshop. And I've just been having one of those mornings where I'm just looking at it being like, holy smokes, this is amazing. And I went on the GitHub and looked at the commits for this type of thing. And they don't go past two weeks ago, meaning that somebody recreated probably like 80% of the Adobe suite, maybe, maybe 70%. You know, there's still quite a bit that needs to be done here, but they got a good portion of it done in just two weeks via, they're saying it's clean room, which, I don't know. Do you want to explain what clean room is? Or you want me to give a stab at it?

• 6:33Scott Tolinski?

  I want you to give a stab at it because I'm not confident in my explanation here. Yes.

• 6:39Wes Bos?

  So with this stuff that is like, like this is obviously legally dubious, where like you can't just take somebody's software and try to crack it and try to reverse engineer the implementation of it.

• 6:51Scott Tolinski?

  Sorry, Wes. Or, or like what we were just talking about in the live stream the other day, the whole de- decompiling and recompiling of video games, right?

• 7:00Wes Bos?

  Yeah. Like you, you shouldn't do that. You're not allowed to do that. But what you can do-

• 7:06Scott Tolinski?

  Unless it's a video game that I want that is unavailable, then you should do that. Yes.

• 7:10Wes Bos?

  I think there's, there's obviously some spots there where, where it is doable, but like you shouldn't be able to like take, as much as you hate Adobe or whatever these companies are, you shouldn't be able to just crack it open and reverse engineer all of the things. So what a clean room does is that they have one agent that is simply going through the entire application and figuring out what all the surfaces are, what all the features are, how they work, detailing absolutely everything about it, and then passing that description on to maybe writing tests, things like that, and then passing those on to an actual implementation agent, meaning that the one that is writing the code has never actually touched the, the agent that is, has been like

• 7:55Wes Bos?

  kind of going through and describing all of it. And in that way, they, it's, it's like, like a clean room, right? You've never actually touched those two. Whether they did that or not here is, I don't totally understand, know if that's the case, but there is thousands of tests and thousands of Photoshop files that are, are being tested against. And then the same for the Illustrator, the video editing, the Premiere one, right? Et cetera, all of those things. What is missing? I have one file-

• 8:24Scott Tolinski?

  Wait, hold on, hold on. Sorry. Sorry. Yeah. Can we just notice here what Wes is on screen is very similar to what I'm wearing right now. This is-

• 8:34Scott Tolinski?

  It's a different T-shirt, but it's so close, folks.

• 8:37Wes Bos?

  This is, I think Randy designed this one. I opened it up because there's, there's quite a bit of like masking and drop shadows and text and things like that. When it's been absolutely perfect. This is exactly what it looks like when you open it up in Photoshop, right? We have some more simpler ones. This is the MAD CSS jacket. You can get it at syntax.fm if you still want to grab one. It's a sick jacket, totally custom, really nice. This is just like a tech pack that we sent to the manufacturer for like, kind of the mock-up that we want, right? The MAD CSS, one of our thumbnails in here. And the interface is familiar. That's another one of the things, like, like a lot of people that are saying, like,

• 9:18Wes Bos?

  use something else is like, well, you don't understand that the entire industry is on the standard. Like, you can't just move, like, as much as you would want to move to a different program, you have to use something that supports Photoshop files. And like GIMP supports Photoshop files. And I posted a tweet about this. Everyone's like, well, GIMP's done this for 28 years. Try. I dare you to try open one of these things in GIMP. There's no, like, there's no smart objects, a lot of the filters in. None of the texts works. So like, it's not a viable alternative. Whereas like, all the text and all this stuff just works right outside the box. The interface is nice. It's the whole UI is also built in Rust, which I thought you would like, quite like that, Scott.

• 10:02Scott Tolinski?

  Yeah, I wonder what they used for the interface.

• 10:05Wes Bos?

  Yeah, I went through it. It's not GPUI. They seem to have their own crate with a whole bunch of tests for actually building the UI.

• 10:13Scott Tolinski?

  Yeah, very curious about that. I want to say too, you know, there's a lot of people who, whether they have an anti-AI stance or whatever, that might look at this thing, find one or two bugs in it and use that as a reason to trash the whole thing. When, I think it's important, like you said, I mean, this was made in very little time. And so it stands to reason that it could be improved in very little time. And it is, it is one of those things that parts of the conversation when people talk about this stuff that always kind of bugs me. It's like, okay, well, I did this and it took one day and it got really close. And then people use that as a reason to dump on it. As in like, oh, it's not, it's not good enough, slopped it together.

• 10:58Scott Tolinski?

  But like, guys, uh, it's really stinking close. And you can, you can get it there.

• 11:05Wes Bos?

  I'm that guy as well, because like, anybody can like vibe code something that has 10% of the features. But like, it takes-

• 11:14Scott Tolinski?

  But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

• 11:15Wes Bos?

  Yeah, but like, it takes, like, obviously the guy who built this, he's Echelon, Brandon Thomas on GitHub. Obviously knows what he's doing with Rust, you know? Obviously knows what he's doing with these apps. I took a look and this, the company that's doing this is called Storytold or Storycraft. And they seem to be building GUI tools for using LLMs in the image editing space. And I, I think the, the end game with this type of stuff is that they will re-implement all of the Adobe AI features, which is like, you can like, circle something and say like, add a cowboy hat. They will probably just re-implement that with their own service.

• 11:59Wes Bos?

  Possibly even a better version of that than, than Photoshop has. And then you would just pay them for the, their subscription with this type of thing. So I bet that's sort of the, the route that they're going. Talking about like, so I'm, I'm here saying, yeah, this is awesome. Shockingly, how, how good it actually is. There are a handful of things that, that do not work. Notably, like the effects in, in the side panel here, you can't like collapse those. There, if you like, want to mask something, you would hold down Control and like click in between two layers. And like, you would create a mask of the top layer over top of the bottom layer. Like, that doesn't work. A lot of the like tiny little interaction stuff is not quite there just yet.

• 12:43Wes Bos?

  You know, dragging and dropping an image on top opens it up in a new file. And like we've been saying with a lot of this stuff is that like UI is the hardest stuff for this vibe-coded software. And while they get quite, they have hundreds of tests related to just how UI works in here. But there's still a long ways to go in terms of like, the actual UI of getting it exactly how Photoshop works. But again, I'm shocked. I do believe it will probably get there if the people behind this project kind of like, keep going. And like enough people can supply fixtures of like, this, this doesn't work. Because we have one huge Photoshop document with like eight of the thumbnails that I've worked on.

• 13:28Wes Bos?

  It's like two gigs and it has about, I don't know, seven art boards in it, right? And I opened that up and the whole thing crashed. And I guess, I don't know what it is about that, but it's, I think it's just multiple art boards is, is one thing that's not supported yet. So hopefully that is one of the features that will be implemented relatively soon. So there are, again, it's, it's not two weeks and it's, it's absolutely perfect. But if you look back, four months ago, we had, there was a blog post called, "Where are all the vibe-coded Photoshops?" Meaning that like, yeah, it, these are cool, these are cool demos and X, Y, and Z. But is anybody actually building any real software with this type of thing?

• 14:13Wes Bos?

  You know, where is the professional software that people are vibe coding up? And here we are, four months later, somebody has, has implemented most of the Adobe suite via these methods. So it just goes to show how much we have changed in the last four months.

• 14:33Scott Tolinski?

  Yeah. You know what? And this is all interesting on the backs of the, the conversation that's being held on Twitter in regards to Figma. So if you haven't been paying attention to this, folks, or Wes, if you didn't see, Figma does not support every AI harness in their MCP. They have a strict process of getting a tool approved for MCP in Figma, which is, you know, contrary to how MCP should work in general, right? Like, for instance, this came about because Pi was getting blocked by Figma's MCP. And then their community support person directed them to a Google form.

• 15:17Scott Tolinski?

  It was like, if you'd like your tool to be approved, you can submit it here. And then when you do that, they would say, we're not accepting any at this time. And the Figma's stance on this has been to, Dylan from Figma, I mean, I will say this. I've been a Figma user for a long time. I did their initial videos for YouTube on their explainer videos. I had, I even was offered a job to work there early, early, early, like 2013, 2015? I don't know what, 2014? I don't know, very early. Might have been 2015 now that I think about it. Either way, they basically have been taking a stance that's like, kind of a lockdown approach to AI tools.

• 15:58Scott Tolinski?

  And you gotta wonder if the ability to have like no mote here and some of this stuff. Now granted, Figma is a complex application. You're not just going to slop fork it in a week or whatever. But like, this is probably going to light some fire under some people. Like, gosh, the, the people are not happy with Figma's stance on this MCP thing. It blew up for them. It really, really got a lot of people like, like, what are you doing? And Dylan responded to me and, you know, it was really great. But like, we have a different idea about MCP and the overall ecosystem. We're basically, we feel like we can control the ecosystem. And I don't think you can, you know?

• 16:37Wes Bos?

  I also was, was thinking a lot about this Figma stuff because like, Figma doesn't want you to use the MCP. I'm, I hate, I hate when I read my own tweets, but like, this is my thoughts of like, Figma doesn't want you using the MCP because they want to be in charge. Amazon doesn't want you shopping with agents. Reddit doesn't want Claude, doesn't let Claude access the threads, you know? Like Twitter doesn't let ChatGPT read tweets.

• 17:02Wes Bos?

  There are big players and like, this happened with APIs eight years ago, where the big players are saying, we are not just a utility. We don't want to lay down and just let you do whatever you want. We want you to go through us because A, we think that's a better experience. And B, we are obviously going to be making more money with it. And like, Dylan had a really good, like, kind of clapback at the Anthropic folks, which is, can you help me understand why you don't make various Anthropic resources available via the MCP? Maybe I'm missing something, which is very true, you know? Like, if Anthropic is like, yes, you should make your entire business available via the MCP, all while Anthropic doesn't even let you use Claude code with open code.

• 17:46Wes Bos?

  Or like, there's so many limitations around where you can use your Anthropic subscription.

• 17:53Scott Tolinski?

  Yeah.

• 17:55Wes Bos?

  So-

• 17:55Scott Tolinski?

  Yeah, I mean, I, I agree with all of that. In the same regard, I don't think that, like, yes, he has a point, but it doesn't much to do with them blocking Pi, you know? I get that, but yeah.

• 18:07Wes Bos?

  So my question here is- Yes, you can make a new version of Photoshop, or you can make the exact same version of Photoshop. And this is very impressive, especially for the Adobe Creative Suite, which is very sticky. It is very hard to move off of the Adobe Creative Suite. Nobody who is using Adobe products is happy that they are using Adobe products, but they are just the best and they are what the industry uses. And there's just so many reasons around it, right? So I don't think that like the replacement for Photoshop is going to be PhotoCraft, where we just, somebody just makes a free version of Photoshop, we just keep on doing that, right? The replacement for Photoshop is going to be something that is

• 18:52Wes Bos?

  a little bit different. We saw that with Figma, right? Like, we used to design websites in Photoshop. And when we moved, we moved over to Sketch and then we moved-

• 19:04Scott Tolinski?

  Well, we moved to Illustrator first, and that was no fun. And then we moved to Sketch, which only works on Mac, it's still-

• 19:12Wes Bos?

  And it was because Figma came out with like a better way of doing it. It was, it was a little bit to like rewire your brain as to like how things work and, and whatnot. But it was just a totally, not totally new, but a new enough evolution of software that people moved to that. And I think that whatever the next version of Photoshop is going to be, and believe me, there's a lot of people trying to figure out what is the next version of video editing, photo editing, raster. Everybody is trying to crack this right now. Nobody has cracked it just yet. It seems to be like the best thing we have is just MCP with video editing so far.

• 19:53Wes Bos?

  But I think whatever we end up landing on is not going to be the exact same thing of Photoshop, but free, or but faster, or but a little bit better. Or like a lot of people right now are making software, but with AI. I don't think that that's, that's the move. It's got to be some generational shift that is enough for people to, to move over. Because like, all of these, Adobe's adding AI to all of their products as well. So they, they can do that as well.

• 20:22Scott Tolinski?

  Yeah. Yeah. And I, it's one of those things that's like, you almost don't know what it is until somebody does it, right? You don't know what that evolution looks like until you're able to see it in action and just be like, oh, this makes so much sense with today's workflows, right? I mean, things have changed and, and like, some of the big stuff that Figma brought was the multiplayer stuff that changed designing completely, the multiplayer interaction, the fact that you could have it on any, and it even, you know, worked on Linux, you could use it in the browser. It was like, wow, this is a, like you said, a substantial step forward

• 21:02Scott Tolinski?

  in a totally different way, the way that we were unable to do before. So whatever that product is for Photoshop, I don't know. Yeah, I haven't seen it yet. And Wes, I will say, as somebody, like you said, Photoshop is sticky in that regard. The way that I have gotten around not using Photoshop since 2017 is just by not doing any raster photographic editing. Like, I just haven't done it.

• 21:26Wes Bos?

  Your style has just changed.

• 21:27Scott Tolinski?

  Yes.

• 21:28Wes Bos?

  Like that, maybe that's the thing, is there is simply just your style, styles changed because the type of software that people are using change. So let's talk about the mote, right? We always talk about like, what's your mote? What's the mote that is there? I think like, two things right now. One, the UI, really good interaction where somebody cares about the itty bitty clicking, dragging, pasting, all of those types of things. That is, that's why Figma won initially. And I think that whoever cracks really good UI for a photo editing program with AI is, is going to be the winner. So with any of these AI-generated apps, the

• 22:09Wes Bos?

  weakest point by far is always the UI, not just what it looks like, but had the interaction, which is like, what happens when you click and drag and hold a key and then like hover over top of something and then right-click and you're in a certain mode. Like, this stuff is so, so complex, so many state machines all the way down. So whoever can crack that. And, and also, my, the second thing that I think is a mote is, is someone that just cares.

• 22:35Scott Tolinski?

  I was gonna say, Wes, you say you don't want to talk about your tweets. I wanted to talk about your tweet from one hour ago.

• 22:41Wes Bos?

  You can talk about my tweet.

• 22:42Scott Tolinski?

  The only mote left is caring about your project past two days.

• 22:48Scott Tolinski?

  It is so true, man. Everybody could slop together something. And it is the person who is using it, getting down into the details, getting into how it feels, how it works, using it, like what it actually is, rather than just slopping something out and calling it a day.

• 23:04Wes Bos?

  I, like, I go, I hopped right in the Discord for, because I, I found an issue where I crashed the app when I uploaded multiple, or opened a Photoshop file with multiple artboards, right? And I was like, well, like, that's a bug. The, we should throw this file into the fixtures so that they can figure out how to, how to make it work. And like, I saw this right in here. "Hi, everyone, just installed the FilmCraft program," which is the like Premiere alternative, "and noticed a bug where the audio keeps crackling. What should I do?" And, oh, boy, oh, boy. Let me tell you about audio crackles, frames dropping-

• 23:40Scott Tolinski?

  Your master, yes.

• 23:41Wes Bos?

  Half of my, like, if, if I ever quit tech, it's going to be because of little bugs like this. Audio crackles, frames dropping, all of this type of stuff. And this is partially solved by very good low-level primitives, you know, like FFmpeg has solved so much of the video playing and video transforming issues at a low-level primitive, that a lot of those things are not a problem up the stack. But they still happen. People have weird hardware, people have weird stuff all the way down. And, and these little things of like audio crackling. And I think that the people that work at Adobe, there are peoples, the full-time

• 24:22Wes Bos?

  jobs are like, "All right, we just installed this like Toshiba Toughbook from a police cruiser, and it, it crackles the audio when I have 11 layers, but there's a mask on top of it for some weird reason." You know, it's just these weird, weird bugs that happen. And those are the types of things where you really, really need a human to, to care about these things and to make a good software product. Because it only takes seven or eight little, little paper cuts. And then you go, you know what?

• 24:56Scott Tolinski?

  Folks, you know what's good for that stuff is Sentry. So whether that's like user feedback, or bugs, or errors, like, a huge part of this is find, like, now that we have AI to fix bugs, or to find why, you know, all of these things exist, so that way, we hopefully shouldn't have these long-running bugs. The most important part of these things is capturing them, getting them into a place where you can even have an answer to put an agent on, or even understand what's going on. So check it out, Sentry.io. I'm serious. Capturing the errors when you have users, because let's face it, some of us do have users. When you, when you have the software in the system, they're just going to stop using it if it doesn't work, or they

• 25:39Scott Tolinski?

  might complain about it being broken. So you want to get on top of that early with Sentry, at Sentry.io.

• 25:44Wes Bos?

  Yeah. That's the, the first thing that happened when it crashed is, damn, I wish they had Sentry in there. Here I am, copy-pasting, or like, reporting a bug to them, when like, that should just be automatically thrown in their Sentry so they understand what's going on, right? And like, I just, I filed a quick bug, but I'm sure they're going to come back and be like, "What version of macOS are you on? Do you, do you have an M chip? Which version of that?" You know, like, there's just so much of this stuff that is, needs to be captured when there are bugs. You could stick an agent on it, but, once you have that information, but you need it in the first place.

• 26:25Scott Tolinski?

  Yes.

• 26:25Wes Bos?

  Definitely put Sentry in your project. I think my, my last little point here is that, like, like copying this stuff is easy, you know? It's, it's one thing to simply just take an existing product and say, "I copied it exactly, and, and here we are." But it's another thing to like, be the person that's trying to figure out, what do we build? What are the possible new interfaces for this type of thing? So I'm excited about these Photoshop hacks, simply just because I want to get off of my $80 a month subscription for something that I use four or five times a month. But I also think that whoever wins this next-level

• 27:07Wes Bos?

  Creative Suite is going to be someone that is just constantly thinking about, how do we make this better? And, and the DaVinci is, is that for, for video editing, for myself, quite honestly. Like, I don't want a Premiere equivalent. I want someone who's thinking, well, how do we make this better? How do we make it different? What's a better experience for the, the end user?

• 27:28Scott Tolinski?

  As somebody who's been using, I mean, I used Final Cut Pro, I use Final Cut Pro X, I used Premiere, I've used every video editing app under the sun. Nobody has the clip of useful releases that DaVinci has. Dude, every time they release an update, I'm like, gosh, this app is getting better and better and better all the time. It is, man, DaVinci Resolve, goaded. It's so good. Do people still say goaded, or is that unk? Or is it chopped? I don't know. Yeah.

• 28:01Wes Bos?

  I think that's chopped, yeah.

• 28:02Scott Tolinski?

  Yeah.

• 28:03Wes Bos?

  I even, I, I even find myself that with the saying, I accidentally say six or seven all the time. And it's just, it's not even funny anymore. It's-

• 28:13Scott Tolinski?

  Yeah, it's not. I'm sorry. I don't, I don't know what, what the, even my kids are saying. I don't know. My, my son says "bro" a lot. Bro.

• 28:22Wes Bos?

  Bruh. No, it's bruh.

• 28:25Scott Tolinski?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 28:26Wes Bos?

  All right, let's move into the next section, which is sick picks. You got a sick pick for me today, Scott?

• 28:34Scott Tolinski?

  I'm gonna sick pick 3D printing your own rack. I've talked about the rack before. I've shown the rack.

• 28:40Wes Bos?

  It's a nice rack.

• 28:40Scott Tolinski?

  I just finished. Yes, it is a nice rack and it's gotten even bigger. I've made my rack bigger. This is the third straight week I've enlarged my rack. And now I just bought this, this area is for Raspberry Pi cluster. So I have a few Raspberry Pis. I'm gonna cluster them in here and then I'll use the other space for something else. Network stuff, Mac Studio, Mac Mini, Synology. It's all gonna be in this bad boy and it fits perfectly under my desk. This is the KWS V2 rack, rack, if you're looking to print something like this. I had to sink in my nuts in here to, I know.

• 29:24Scott Tolinski?

  I was just trying to find a different way to say that. And, uh, man, it is sturdy as hell. This thing could, could break a window. It is awesome. And, uh, yeah, it's just gonna live under my deck, my whole computing stack. I'm gonna have to, uh, I, I have some fans and stuff from old computer builds. I'm gonna toss in the back of here to get some good airflow coming in and out.

• 29:44Wes Bos?

  Yeah.

• 29:45Scott Tolinski?

  So there's still more work to be done there. And I still have to figure out like how I'm mounting power and stuff to this. But I'm gonna start moving my stuff into it probably today. I'm pretty stoked.

• 29:56Wes Bos?

  Cool.

• 29:57Scott Tolinski?

  Yes, and it's pet G, so it's not going to warp with heat or anything like that.

• 30:02Wes Bos?

  Yeah, that's probably important.

• 30:04Scott Tolinski?

  Yes.

• 30:05Wes Bos?

  It's so cool. And like, talk about taste as a moat, like you, all you did is pick colors, but like, you did a great job. I'm just looking at the like bamboo maker world.

• 30:15Scott Tolinski?

  They're all ugly.

• 30:16Wes Bos?

  3D print have the worst foresight into like what things will look like when they're picking colors.

• 30:22Scott Tolinski?

  Yes.

• 30:22Wes Bos?

  And they just, everything looks awful.

• 30:24Scott Tolinski?

  I even printed these in a different shade of gray first. And then when I saw it next to the yellow, I was like, eh, not quite what I want.

• 30:32Wes Bos?

  Yeah.

• 30:33Scott Tolinski?

  So yes, black marble and, uh, yellow here. And then I even intentionally went with the, the metal, uh, screws for the front plates and everything. So a lot of important decisions made in the aesthetics.

• 30:48Wes Bos?

  I am going to sick pick a new camera I just got. This is the Insta 360 Luna. I'm super happy with it. And I, I basically, I had been using my phone to capture B-roll. Um, and even like, like when we're doing videos and we're like, just like doing a single cam. I think the video can get really boring. So one move that people do is they'll just record like a second angle of themself sitting at their desk, right? Or like, I'm working on a video right now on all of like hacking these little digital photo. Oh, shoot, I just dropped my laptop. I'm working on a video right now.

• 31:26Scott Tolinski?

  No, no.

• 31:27Wes Bos?

  Where I'm like hacking these like Android, cheap Android photo frames. Which very good video coming out. And I just needed a whole bunch of B-roll of me working on it, right? And then I, I put my phone and it's annoying because then I need my phone to text my wife. And it's, I was like, I need a second decent camera. So I got the Insta 360 Luna. Um, and this is just like a little, nice little handheld gimbal camera. Quality is amazing on it. It's, yeah, it's, it's really nice for, for that type of thing. And we just, we brought it to my daughter's like ninja competition on the weekend. And, um, we're using it to film her jumping around and it's, it's kinda cool.

• 32:05Scott Tolinski?

  Man, I am so jealous of that. I did see they have it at Costco. And so I have that link open and it's just kinda sitting there. I cannot justify it, but, uh, I, I think, you know, my wife's been doing a lot of, uh, vertical video for YouTube and stuff. Talking about, folks, if you're interested, she's talking about dyslexia. She's talking about learning disabilities. She's a doctor of educational psych, if you haven't seen her before. But she's doing her thing on YouTube right now under the name Phases FM. And I just think this, right now she is setting up my Sony A7 III. She's connecting it with a cam link to her computer and recording it in QuickTime.

• 32:48Scott Tolinski?

  And it's like, I just can't imagine how much easier this would be for her. With the little DJI mic and everything connected to it.

• 32:58Wes Bos?

  You know, cause I, I built out like a tiny little like handheld rig that had like a monitor on the top. So you can see yourself and like, it was so cool, but like, I just didn't use it. It was too, too fussy, you know? You gotta plug everything in. You gotta have external power to it. I had a little USB hub on it and it just, you don't use these things when they're, they're too complicated, right? And then I ended up just using my like front facing camera so I could see myself. And then the quality is crappy, you know? And it's just, it's so frustrating with all of this stuff. So I was like, you know what? I'm doing it. Getting the, the Luna Insta 360. The, the other one that people get is like the DJI Osmo Pocket 4. I know that they're banned in the States.

• 33:40Wes Bos?

  So that's part of the reason why I didn't go with that because there's a couple of other reasons. I think that this is cool because the, the screen detaches from it. So you can bring the, the remote, so you can pan it around as with you. So you don't have to go back to the camera to change where you're panning. But the DJI is, is banned in the US. And I thought like, nobody's gonna be 3D printing. Nobody's gonna be selling attachments for this thing. If, if the States doesn't have access to it, I could buy it because I'm in Canada, land of the free. But I, I decided to go with the Insta 360 instead.

• 34:17Scott Tolinski?

  Yeah. Uh, in case you're wondering, Costco does have a limit of five per member for buying the Insta 360 8K gimbal camera. So if you are looking at Costco, you can only buy five of them if you wanted.

• 34:32Wes Bos?

  8K, man. I'm not doing like, like sports or whatever, where I need to be filming in 4K or 8K. Um, I do like 4K though, because then I can crop my shots or zoom them in without losing any of that quality.

• 34:45Scott Tolinski?

  Yeah. Yep. Oh, man. Oh, boy. Uh, hovering over the buy button. Wes, I'll talk about this later. Yeah, okay. Fear freshener.

• 34:55Wes Bos?

  Have a good, good one, Pete, folks. Peace.

• 34:57Scott Tolinski?

  Peace.