The Stuff You Should Know Doin’ Science Playlist: Legs! Legs! Legs! (The Periodic Table)

If you’ve ever wanted to listen to two totally untrained, non-chemists who are fully unqualified to explain how the periodic table works nervously explain how the periodic table works, then this episode is for you. Chemistry majors, be warned. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:04Josh Clark?

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• 2:34Josh Clark?

  Here we are, friends. The last episode of our Do In Science playlist. It's been quite a ride, hasn't it? If you're super bummed about it ending, you can just start all over again. This episode on the periodic table that we released just a couple of years ago became one of my favorites because I had to give myself a crash course in chemistry. And I learned a ton of stuff that I never knew and probably never would have learned if we hadn't taken this one on. As you will hear, I got pretty jazzed about it. I hope this episode gets you jazzed about it, too. And thanks a lot for spending some of your time with us, listening to our Do In Science playlist. We'll be back in September with another one. Until then, keep testing your predictions.

• 3:18Speaker 04

  Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

• 3:28Josh Clark?

  Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here, too. And this is the "We'll Get Through It" edition of Stuff You Should Know about the periodic table.

• 3:40Speaker 05

  Uh huh. I have other names for it.

• 3:43Josh Clark?

  I'll bet you do. Can you say any of them?

• 3:46Speaker 05

  This is the "Only Time I Hate My Job" edition.

• 3:51Speaker 05

  This is the "Now We Can Stop Talking About the Sun" episode.

• 3:56Josh Clark?

  Maybe.

• 3:57Speaker 05

  Edition.

• 4:00Speaker 05

  And this is the "My God, Why Do We Ever Do Episodes on Chemistry" edition. I failed chemistry. It's the only thing I've ever failed was chemistry.

• 4:08Josh Clark?

  I don't think I even ever took chemistry, to tell you the truth.

• 4:11Speaker 05

  Hey, you didn't fail it.

• 4:13Josh Clark?

  Right. Can't fail if you don't try.

• 4:15Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 4:16Josh Clark?

  That's my motto. Uh, here's what I figured out about this, like driving myself mad trying to learn this stuff and understand it. Um, there is a lot of people out there who have written articles and explainers on the stuff that we're going to talk about, who literally don't know what they're talking about. And yet they're presenting their information like they do, and it's wrong, and it's, you can't understand it. Or in cases where you can understand it, it still doesn't fully answer the question. There's a lot of stuff out there like that on this, especially as it gets more and more like arcane, right?

• 4:56Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 4:57Josh Clark?

  There's a whole group of people out there, chemists, molecular chemists, physicists, who understand this, but you can put them all together and they can't coherently explain any of it to anybody else. They can just talk to one another like this. Where we are, where us and everybody listening to this episode right now is stuck in the middle.

• 5:15Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 5:16Josh Clark?

  We know enough that we, we can, we can notice when somebody is wrong, or not correct, or doesn't know what they're talking about, but we don't know enough to understand what the actual scientists are saying, and then come back and explain it. So, um, first of all, Breton cap off to Livia for helping us with this one.

• 5:36Speaker 05

  Boy, Livia should get a bonus for this one, quite frankly.

• 5:39Josh Clark?

  For sure. And then second, we might have to edit that out.

• 5:42Speaker 05

  Right.

• 5:44Josh Clark?

  Secondly, we can, we're smart enough to get all this across. We are, but we're also, um, uh, transparent enough to admit when we're like, we don't understand this part.

• 5:56Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, there's a few parts I still don't get. Uh, I imagine, the good news is, I imagine that maybe about 20% of our listenership is even hearing this right now.

• 6:08Josh Clark?

  I hope more than that, because it's really interesting stuff.

• 6:11Speaker 05

  Would you click on something called, How the Periodic Table Works?

• 6:14Josh Clark?

  Well, we're gonna have to come up with something else. I think we'll call this one Legs Legs Legs.

• 6:22Speaker 05

  Colon, tiny lettering periodic table.

• 6:24Josh Clark?

  Exactly.

• 6:26Speaker 05

  The sex episode.

• 6:30Josh Clark?

  We'll see, we'll trick him into listening to it.

• 6:33Speaker 05

  All right, uh, I know I can get some of this at the beginning, so if you'll allow me to talk about one of the only parts I understand.

• 6:40Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 6:41Speaker 05

  All right, great, I'll kick it off, uh, cause we have to set the stage sort of for pre-periodic table construction, which is to say that early, uh, I'm sorry, late in the 18th century, we were working from, science was working from the Aristotelian, Aristotelian. Yeah. That's to say Aristotle system, which is, uh, which we've talked about some, uh, recently, which is, hey, we got, uh, four elements, fire, earth, water and air. And then after that, science became a little more nuanced and they're like, hey, actually, we think there are more things out there, more building blocks.

• 7:17Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 7:18Speaker 05

  And, um, maybe we can distinguish them from one another and categorize them, maybe based on their mass. And this was sort of the scene when in 1804, a, uh, oddly, an English school teacher, who was also a researcher named John Dalton. Said, all right, um, things are made up of smaller things, maybe these, uh, which is not new, like for, you know, ancient cultures, we're even talking about things being up of smaller things.

• 7:46Josh Clark?

  Yeah, we talked about democratic in that episode about things we believed before the scientific method.

• 7:51Speaker 05

  Totally, that's exactly where it was. Uh, but he said, things are made up maybe of like these little tiny indestructible, indivisible atoms. Uh, he got a lot of that wrong, but one thing he got right was the idea that

• 8:06Speaker 05

  no two elements that we know about so far, which were not very many at all, uh, at that point, can have an identical mass and all the atoms of that element have the same mass, which also wasn't quite right, but at the time it was right.

• 8:20Josh Clark?

  Yeah, because you gotta give it up to these guys. When we're like analyzing elements and atoms and stuff today, we're using like spectrometry and particle accelerators and doing all sorts of amazing stuff. These guys are like burning things.

• 8:34Speaker 05

  This is 1804.

• 8:35Josh Clark?

  Boiling them in acid. Yeah, like they were doing all the stuff that a high school chemistry teacher does to demonstrate chemistry. That's what they were doing to actually isolate elements and like weigh them. They were weighing things like oxygen. Like they figured out that if you take a liter of oxygen, you will find that it weighs 1.5 grams. No matter where in the world you weigh it, it's going to weigh 1.5 grams. Like, that's what these people are doing. Can you capture a liter of oxygen? I can't. So I mean, like, what they were doing was the hardcore, like, bloody, like, roll up your sleeves kind of chemistry.

• 9:14Josh Clark?

  Like, apparently, it was like one of the biggest scientific pushes of the 19th century was identifying elements. And John Dalton was the first to say, hey, some of these, I think we can kind of like try to organize them a little bit. And Dalton didn't discover any elements, from what I understand. He was just the first one to come up with atomic theory in the modern age and try to start ordering them based on atomic weight.

• 9:42Speaker 05

  Yeah, exactly. It wasn't quite the periodic table yet, but it was a precursor for sure. And his very first version in 1803 only had the five elements that we knew about at the time. Hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, carbon and sulfur. Nitrogen was known as, and I think we said this in another episode, the azote? Or is it azote?

• 10:04Josh Clark?

  I guess.

• 10:04Speaker 05

  Okay. A-Z-O-T-E. His second list, just five years later, was up to 20 elements. And then 24 years later, by 1827, that list was up to 36. And as science was progressing, they started noticing patterns and they started noticing sort of intervals where things would repeat themselves such that all of a sudden a German chemist named Johann Wolfgang in 1829 said, well, wait a minute, we're noticing these patterns and some of these things are the same. Like, if you look at lithium, sodium, potassium. They have very similar properties and we might can group those together.

• 10:45Speaker 05

  And those three in the modern periodic table are grouped together in the same column. So he was, he was right on the money as far as that idea.

• 10:53Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and I mean, we as humans are obsessed with finding patterns in things. And like discovering a latent pattern in nature, I mean, there's few things more exciting than that. So these guys were looking for patterns even in places where they didn't necessarily exist. Maybe maneuvering things where they should or shouldn't be. Some people took some cracks at it to try to, to try to kind of organize these elements by pattern. But they ran into some problems. One was the chemistry wasn't as exact as it needed to be to really organize stuff. There were elements that hadn't been discovered yet. So there are big missing chunks, but they didn't necessarily know there are big missing chunks. But they were on the right track that you could order these things one way or another.

• 11:38Josh Clark?

  And when you did, they would start showing patterns, periodicity. Periodic table means that there are periods or patterns that repeat themselves.

• 11:48Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 11:48Josh Clark?

  Depending on how you organize these elements.

• 11:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, and the, the modern periodic table that we know and loathe.

• 11:58Speaker 05

  Sorry. I loathe that thing that they pull down in science class that, you know, teenagers just blankly stare at, not knowing what the heck they're looking at.

• 12:10Josh Clark?

  But it's pretty.

• 12:11Speaker 05

  Sure, if you say so.

• 12:15Speaker 05

  We can, we owe that to a Russian chemist named Dmitri Mendeleev. And Mendeleev in 1869 was working on a, the very first Russian language organic chemistry textbook in 1869. And said, you know what? We have 63 elements at this point. I think we can organize these.

• 12:36Speaker 05

  He did so. He arranged things in like columns. He had to reorder some things from the the previous order. Uh, so he's like, maybe we shouldn't organize just by atomic mass. Maybe we should order them into these similarities and how they behave. And the big, big thing that Mendeleev landed on was uh, leaving gaps where he saw gaps. And instead of just, you know, buttoning it up and making it look a certain way. He said, I'm gonna leave a gap here. And this is actually what kind of proved his his worth and the fact that he was really on the right track. Because in the 15 years following him leaving those gaps, uh, three elements were discovered that fit those very gaps that he had left perfectly. Like a little puzzle piece.

• 13:21Josh Clark?

  It's like the molecular chemistry version of Babe Ruth calling his shot.

• 13:25Speaker 05

  Yeah, basically.

• 13:26Josh Clark?

  Essentially. So like when it turned out in the next 15 years, they found those elements that did not only fill those spots, but they had properties that Mendeleev predicted they would. Like he was like, they were like, you, you did really good guy. Um, he also predicted some other ones that didn't come true, but everybody was just like, whatever, it's fine. Um, so that was like the model that everybody used from that point on. And it's the classic model that we see today, where it's kind of like a castle with turrets on either side. And you know, the, the brick in the middle. And then the, there's like a couple of rows below that are a moat if you squint hard enough.

• 14:04Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 14:04Josh Clark?

  That's Mendeleev who came up with that whole thing. And the way that they're arranged is not by atomic mass, but by atomic number. That's why if you look in the, we should probably say the way you read the periodic table is from left to right and top to bottom, right? So the whole thing starts in the top left with number one hydrogen. And the reason it's number one is because it has one proton. That's right. It has one proton, Chuck. And because it has one proton in its stable form, it has one electron. And all that's going to be important in a minute.

• 14:35Speaker 05

  That's right. Uh, I mean, should we go ahead and take a break? I feel like that was kind of good setup material.

• 14:40Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 14:41Speaker 05

  All right, we'll take a break and we'll be right back with more things to enlighten you and numb you.

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• 17:46Speaker 05

  All right, so the Modern Periodic Table, I think, where was Mendeleev? He had 63 on his first? Yeah, 63 known elements at the time on his first stab. The Modern Periodic Table right now stands at 118. And I think they've already said they think possibly, maybe one day, it may top out at 173.

• 18:10Josh Clark?

  We'll see.

• 18:11Speaker 05

  We'll see. But that's sort of, you know, the thinking, the logic. But right now, we're at 118 elements that we know about. It includes, on the chart, the name of the element. They're usually a one- or two-letter symbol, which is almost always short for the name. But in a case of gold, like when you see Au for gold and you're like, what the heck is that all about? That just means it's based on the original Latin for gold,

• 18:38Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 18:39Speaker 05

  Arum. And they are placed, like you said before the break, in order of their atomic number, which represents the protons in each atom. And that is what makes that each element unique over those seven rows, AKA periods, and 18 numbered columns, AKA groups.

• 18:59Josh Clark?

  Yeah. So the rows across horizontally, those are the periods. And like you said, it's really important to remember, if you take a proton and add it to an element, you don't have like a variation on the element. You have an entirely new element. Everything else you can mess around with fudge, mess with the neutrons, mess with the electrons. If you add a proton or take away a proton, you got a totally different element, which is why you can order them by their atomic number. Number one with hydrogen, number two helium, which has two protons, and so on and so forth. When you see that little number in the top left of the square for that element, that's how many protons it has. But again, as we'll see, if we're talking about on the periodic table,

• 19:42Josh Clark?

  stable atoms, that means that they don't have an electric charge, they're neutral. And that means that they have an even number of protons and electrons. Protons are positively charged, electrons are negatively charged. And if you have one and one, they cancel each other out. Two and two, they cancel each other out. Or at the very least, they make the electric charge neutral.

• 20:06Speaker 05

  All right. So if you're looking, if you had, if you've brought up a picture by now of the periodic table, because you really want to follow along.

• 20:13Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's a good idea.

• 20:15Speaker 05

  God bless you for doing such a thing. And secondly, you might say, well, wait a minute, Chuck. What are those, what's that thing underneath everything? Uh, we will get to this in a minute, but those 14 short columns underneath is called the F block. And those are the seventh and eighth periods, AKA rows, that are detached and those are unnumbered rows, whereas the other rows are numbered through 18. So put a pin in the F block. Uh, all elements within a period, and again, that is the row, if you're looking horizontal. All the elements on each row have the same number of electron shells. And when you think about that in your mind's eye, you're probably picturing how we think of that in our mind's eye because of chemistry class and science class,

• 20:59Speaker 05

  which is, you know, a circle around an atom's nucleus that holds electrons.

• 21:05Josh Clark?

  Right, like in orbit. That's Niels Bohr's contribution, although he made plenty of contributions, but the whole idea that we have of the atom being, consisting of like a nucleus that's kind of like the sun and electrons orbit orbiting around it like planets. That's thanks to Niels Bohr. Um, and the, the- Actual orbit, let's say you have just one circle around the nucleus. That's a shell. It's one shell. Add another one, that's the second shell. Add another one, that's the third shell. And they actually fill up in order. So when you follow along across the rows, the horizontal rows called periods on the periodic table, all of those in that row have the same number of shells.

• 21:50Josh Clark?

  One shell, and the second shell, and the third shell, and the fourth shell. And as you go down, each row has the, all the shells that the ones above it had, and now they've added another shell because their other shells are full of electrons.

• 22:05Speaker 05

  Right. So if you look at periodic table, get out your little picture, and you look at that first row or period, that means it just has one shell capable of holding up to two electrons. And so that's why there are only two elements there. Hydrogen usually has one electron, and helium, which normally has two. And then you go down from there, the second and third shells can hold up to eight electrons. So those second and third rows are each gonna have eight elements, and so on. For the fourth and fifth, it's 18. The sixth and seventh hold 32. And so there are 32 elements on the sixth and seventh rows.

• 22:45Josh Clark?

  Just to demonstrate a little further, so helium has two electrons in that one shell. Helium's full. The first element on the next row that has a second shell, that's lithium. Lithium has two electrons in its first shell, that's full. But it has an extra electron, so now it's added another shell, the second shell, to house that first electron. And you go all the way down to the very end of that row, that lithium starts, and you find neon. Neon has 10. Its first shell of two is full of electrons. Its second shell, that can hold up to eight, is full, so it has 10 total electrons. This is what the periods are showing us. The number of shells, and then eventually in a second we'll know the number of electrons that can fill those shells.

• 23:29Speaker 05

  That's right. And the periods of the rows, we're gonna say that 1,000 times. Groups or columns, periods or rows, because if, if there's one takeaway from this whole thing, you can at least look smart. And when you walk into a room with a periodic table chart and say, and someone says, what are those rows and columns? And you can say, do you mean groups and periods?

• 23:47Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And then really quickly after that, look at your watch and be like, look at the time, I'm late and run out of the room so that there's no follow up questions.

• 23:54Speaker 05

  Yeah. And make a U shaped hole in the wall. Not the letter U, but a, a Y O U shaped.

• 24:00Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Nice.

• 24:00Speaker 05

  Did that come through?

• 24:01Josh Clark?

  Sure. It did. Once you spell it.

• 24:04Speaker 05

  Uh, the groups are what we're going to talk about next, and those are the columns. And this is where Mendeleev, uh, realized, um, these patterns were coming into play. And once, you know, subatomic theory came about and we started being able to drill down further and further, we started to be able to get way more specific.

• 24:23Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 24:24Speaker 05

  So these patterns in these rhythms on the columns are based on the number of valence electrons for each element, which means how many electrons you would normally find in that outermost shell.

• 24:36Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And the outermost shell is important, Chuck, because that's where all the action happens. That's when, um, atoms bond together to make new molecules. That's where the attraction or repulsion happens. Like that is the, that's the, the active, um, shell. All the other shells are full. And when a shell is full, it's basically content. It just wants to sit there. It wants to be left alone. But if that outermost shell isn't full, then it's ready for some action. It's, it's got its leather jacket on. It's got its dice in its pocket, maybe a switchblade, and it's looking for, for trouble.

• 25:09Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 25:10Josh Clark?

  So more than, more than I think even rows, like all of the elements that are in a row, remember horizontal across a period, they're related because they all have the same shell, the same number of shells, one, two, three, four, and so on. The groups up and down, the columns, they're more related really because they have the same number of electrons in that outermost shell. They can have a bunch of different numbers of shells. Like for example, I think, um, fluorine can have five shells, but only one electron in that, that outermost shell. And, or it could have one shell and just have one electron in that outermost shell, like, uh, hydrogen. And they're more related because they'll, they'll

• 25:52Josh Clark?

  react, um, to other things more than they would if they had different numbers of electrons.

• 25:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, we can add something to something you should remember because this will make you look even one step smarter before you run out of the room through the wall. Just say, "Oh yeah, you know, it's organized into periods and groups and the periods of the rows and the groups of the columns and if you ask me, the columns, AKA groups, that's really where it's at."

• 26:19Josh Clark?

  They're more related.

• 26:21Speaker 05

  They're more related and then you run through the wall.

• 26:24Josh Clark?

  Right, so let me give you an example here, okay?

• 26:27Speaker 05

  All right, this is if you want to really, really, really be smart, you remember this.

• 26:31Josh Clark?

  Right, if you have your periodic table out, really honestly, it will make this whole thing so much easier, but if you look all the way down to the second group from the right that starts with fluorine.

• 26:42Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 26:43Josh Clark?

  If you look at fluorine, it has, I think, nine electrons and it's in period two, so we know that it has two shells, so we know that it has two electrons in its first shell, so it must have seven electrons in its extra shell, or its second shell. And since we know that the second shell can hold eight, there's one little irritating gap and it wants to fill it. So fluorine is super duper reactive. On the other hand, you've got things like potassium. It has only one electron in its outermost shell and it wants to actually get rid of that electron because I think I said earlier, when a shell is full, the atom is content and happy. It doesn't want to do anything with anybody.

• 27:27Josh Clark?

  If it just has one left over, like one hole or one electron, it either wants to get rid of that one electron so that it can lose that shell and go down to the next shell, which is full, or it can fill its shell, like fluorine wants to, with an extra electron. Either way, they're super reactive and it all happens in that outermost shell, the valence shell, and that's why, that's where all the action happens.

• 27:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, and you know what, something we haven't even said that I think is important that dawned on me.

• 27:54Josh Clark?

  What?

• 27:55Speaker 05

  Is the periodic table isn't just a like, uh, let's just do this thing so we can group them together. A periodic table, the periodic table is made and it's organized this way. So chemists and people that really know what they're doing can look at a poster on a wall, at any of those squares and know because of where it is on the row, where it is on the column, what color it is and what block it is. And we'll get to those things in a minute. And they can know a lot of very specific things just because of where it sits and what it looks like and what color it is.

• 28:31Josh Clark?

  Yeah, they can tell you whether it's gonna blow up in water.

• 28:35Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 28:36Josh Clark?

  Like, um, like, uh, I guess apparently sodium, pure sodium does. Um, they can tell you if it's shiny. Um, there's, all of this has to do just almost entirely with the number of electrons it has in its outermost shell. All that stuff. And that's the evolution of the periodic table. People notice properties, physical properties, they notice appearance, stuff like that. And then as they learned more and more about the atom, they figured out why, why in the atom those properties existed. And they were able to classify those things together in the periodic table. So like you said, a chemist today can look at that and be like, oh, that's gonna be a shiny metal that'll explode in your hand if you look at it wrong, because it's in this group of elements, right?

• 29:18Josh Clark?

  And I saw it described by a chemist really well. If you, uh, like to a chemist, a periodic table looks like a, a map to us. Like if you look at a map of the United States, you, you know that if you, uh, are looking at someplace in the north, it's gonna be colder there than say somewhere in the south. You don't know exactly what the temperature is or anything like that necessarily, but you know generally based on this map. It's a map to the elements.

• 29:45Speaker 05

  Yeah, and it also might, you know, you might think, uh, if you're looking at a map of the south, like that's where people are more like this. And in the Midwest, people may be, you know, it tells you, a map tells you a lot more than just like what the weather's like.

• 29:59Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 29:59Speaker 05

  Just like a periodic table. So if a, if a scientist, if a chemist looks at silicon, Uh, I look at it and I see a capital S lowercase i, the word silicon, the number 14 in the left-hand corner, and that it's yellow. A chemist looks at it and says, "Well, I see it's in between, uh, on the row, aluminum and phosphorus, and in the, in the column, it's below carbon and above, uh, germanium, and I see its number is 14 and it's yellow, which means it's a metalloid." So I can tell you like, these 12 things about silicon, just because of where it sits on that map.

• 30:36Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 30:37Speaker 05

  It's pretty amazing. I just, I don't get it, but it's amazing.

• 30:40Josh Clark?

  Right. I was, I was just gonna say, we're not going to explain what those 14 things are, because they're the kind of things you have to go to graduate school in chemistry to truly understand. It's okay that we don't understand it. All you have to take away from this, and all we're trying to get across, is that trained chemists can look at the periodic table and realize a lot about whatever element they're looking at, and figure out how to mix it with other elements to do, um, amazing things. Or if you put together these two things, this is probably the reaction that you're going to have.

• 31:11Speaker 05

  Yeah, and it's also, for someone like us, it can get really confusing, because when you look at different periodic tables, one thing you'll notice is that the colors may be different. Like, there is no, unless I'm wrong, there isn't one completely settled, "This is the only way to do it" periodic table.

• 31:29Josh Clark?

  Oh no.

• 31:30Speaker 05

  As far as a lot of it goes, but like, you know, depending on who you are and how you want to organize the periodic table that you use, those colors may mean different things, so it can get really, really confusing.

• 31:41Josh Clark?

  Oh yeah.

• 31:42Speaker 05

  Uh, when it comes to that stuff.

• 31:44Josh Clark?

  For sure. Um, and usually there is like a key or a legend on the periodic table that says, "This is what these colors mean." But if you take away the colors, the layout of them across and down, if you look at a periodic table, it's generally going to be the same for any periodic table that looks even roughly like what you're looking at. It's the colors that really kind of change things up. But more and more, as we've learned more about the atom, starting in the early 20th century onward, and quantum mechanics kind of became a thing, that got incorporated into the periodic table as well. And that is where we get to, essentially, the third way that the whole thing's organized, which is by, um, blocks, subshells, S, P, D, and F. And-

• 32:33Josh Clark?

  So

• 32:36Speaker 05

  Take it away.

• 32:37Josh Clark?

  The number, the number of shells that an element has, that's its period across. The number of electrons in its outermost shell, that's its group. The blocks describe where that outermost electron is. And if you'll allow me for a second to just kind of take a little divergence here. It helps you understand it, I think.

• 33:01Speaker 05

  Please, can we talk about baseball?

• 33:03Josh Clark?

  No, not that kind of divergence, like deeper into chemistry kind of divergence.

• 33:08Speaker 05

  Okay, I'm gonna go out and think about baseball.

• 33:10Josh Clark?

  Okay, so, so that whole model that Niels Bohr gave us of like the planetoid nucleus and the, or the sun-like nucleus and the planetoid electron orbiting it, that is really off. That's not at all what they're like. It's good for people who don't really care about this kind of thing to walk around thinking. But when you actually start to try to understand the periodic table, it really gets in the way. So if you can kind of throw that out and instead think of electrons as not particles like planetoids, they're actually waves of energy, right? And they like to orbit atoms because their negative electrical charge is attracted

• 33:54Josh Clark?

  to the positive electrical charge of the protons. That's why they're orbiting or flying around that nucleus. But they don't do it in like these tight little orbits like a planet does around like the sun. Instead, they inhabit three dimensional areas that follow predictable shapes depending on the energy level of that electron. You can say what shape it's going to follow around that nucleus. But you can't say where it is at any given point in time, thanks to our friend Heisenberg's uncertainty principle. Heisenberg said, "You can know the velocity of an object, or you can know the location of a quantum object. You can't know both."

• 34:39Josh Clark?

  And because we know the, the energy of an object, we can figure out its velocity, its speed. Like an electron, which means we can't know where it is. So these orbits actually are where they may be 90% of the time. That's what an actual electron orbit is. And again, it follows these weird, cool looking little three dimensional, four leaf clover shapes, just really neat. And depending on the energy of the electron, it's going to inhabit a specific place 90% of the time around the nucleus of that atom, either close to the atom, further out, further out, depending on the shell that it's associated with.

• 35:20Josh Clark?

  And the block is where the highest energy, the outermost electron is in that position. And again, it's denoted by S, P, D and F. And it gets way more arcane than that. But all you have to remember is that when you're looking at blocks, they're talking about the specific location of the most energetic electron. And again, since the outermost electrons are where all the action happens, the most energetic of the outermost electrons are really where the action happens. And that's why it's become a little more sophisticated, a little more refined over time, thanks to the addition of quantum mechanics in our understanding of the atom.

• 36:06Josh Clark?

  Are you there Chuck? Did you go outside?

• 36:08Speaker 05

  Sorry, I just came back in. I didn't actually think about baseball. I was just kidding. I watched an entire baseball game.

• 36:14Josh Clark?

  Oh, who won?

• 36:16Speaker 05

  Uh, I have no joke.

• 36:20Speaker 05

  My brain is too mushy for a joke right now. Uh, no, I actually listened to that and I learned from you, so.

• 36:26Josh Clark?

  Oh, wow.

• 36:26Speaker 05

  Appreciate that.

• 36:26Josh Clark?

  Thank you, because I felt like I was hanging from a trapeze by my fingernails.

• 36:32Speaker 05

  Well, I was underneath you with a net. That's all I'm good for.

• 36:34Josh Clark?

  Thanks, buddy. I appreciate it. And by the way, I didn't want to just walk past, that's all you're good for. I just couldn't even bring myself to recognize such a dumb thing that was said.

• 36:45Speaker 05

  I appreciate that. So, the final thing we gotta talk about is kinda brings it back to the beginning of how they originally just started to think about grouping things, which was by their atomic mass. The sort of very basic thing that they first thought they could use as a grouping device. And they still will indicate the atomic mass on most periodic tables, but the atomic mass is actually a weighted average of the amount of protons plus neutrons, but it depends on how abundant different isotopes in that element are out in nature, and it's not always the same.

• 37:19Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 37:20Speaker 05

  Carbon is a great example that Livia used. It always has six protons, usually has six neutrons, but sometimes can have seven or eight. So instead of having an atomic mass of just 12, 6 plus 6, they take a weighted average and it weighs out to 12.011. So if you see those numbers with a decimal point, you can understand that that's because it's a weighted average and not just a locked-in number.

• 37:46Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and just it doesn't necessarily have much to do with the periodic table, but you've mentioned isotopes, and all those are as an element with more or less electrons than it has when it's stable in a neutral charge. If you take away an electron, it has more positively charged protons than electrons, so that's a positive ion. If you add an electron, like say fluorine wants to do, it becomes a, it has more electrons than protons, so it becomes a negatively charged isotope. So, those are possible too, but just bear in mind, you're not changing the number of protons, because if you do that, you have a new element, you're just changing the number of electrons, either adding or taking away. And one of the other things about the periodic table is, you can point to different sections

• 38:31Josh Clark?

  and be like, "Those are the ones that form positive ions, because they give away their extra electron. Those are the ones that form negative ions, because they attract extra electrons than they normally have in their neutrally charged state." That's another thing that you can just point to at the periodic table.

• 38:47Speaker 05

  Pretty amazing.

• 38:49Josh Clark?

  It is. I mean, the fact that people have figured this out is just hats off to all of the scientists that were involved in this over the years.

• 38:57Speaker 05

  Yeah. I say we take a break.

• 38:59Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 39:00Speaker 05

  And when we come back, we're gonna tell you about how things got very interesting in terms of the periodic table in the 1930s, right after this.

• 39:22Josh Clark?

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• 40:38Josh Clark?

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• 41:31Josh Clark?

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• 42:20Josh Clark?

  Chuck, I feel like we made it through the hardest part. We're out of the woods.

• 42:25Speaker 05

  I'm shaking a little less.

• 42:27Josh Clark?

  I am too.

• 42:29Speaker 05

  But I will fully relax for another 15.

• 42:32Josh Clark?

  Just hang there.

• 42:32Speaker 05

  10 to 15 minutes.

• 42:33Josh Clark?

  Hang in there, we'll get it.

• 42:35Speaker 05

  All right, so what happened in the 1930s?

• 42:37Josh Clark?

  Oh, well, a guy named Dr. Lawrence, I can't remember, but he, the Lawrence Livermore Laboratory is named after him in part, invented particle accelerators, where you use incredible amounts of energy to throw trillions of particles of different weights, or specific weights, at a target atom. Tell them what Einstein, how Einstein described this process.

• 43:02Speaker 05

  Like shooting birds in the dark in a country where there are only a few birds.

• 43:06Josh Clark?

  Right, like the chances of you actually having a collision are so remote that you, like they're almost indescribable mathematically. But if you shoot trillions of particles, you really increase your chances of there being some kind of collision. And when you collide a, one particle, one atom with another atom, with enough energy, they can combine, and when you add proton to proton, remember, you get a new element. And so with particle accelerators, they were able to start. Creating elements that you can't find in nature. And they started doing this all the way back in the 1930s. And this research is what actually directly led to nuclear bomb. Apparently, when Einstein heard that Lawrence had created this particle accelerator,

• 43:50Josh Clark?

  he advised FDR to start working on a bomb because it was now a thing. Like, the world had just been prepared scientifically for a bomb to exist soon.

• 44:01Speaker 05

  Yeah, so lab-created elements, like you said, started being a thing in 1937. Anything past uranium on the chart, you cannot find in nature because it decays much too fast to even be around and know it's a thing and study. But, so anything past uranium is lab-created. And in 1937, technetium was the very first blank spot to be filled in with a lab-created element as number 43.

• 44:34Speaker 05

  Nuclear bombs that you mentioned, when they started doing the nuclear tests out on the Marshall Islands in the 50s, they would send planes out into these explosions with filters on them to scoop up unusual atoms and discover potentially elements. That is how we got element 99, named einsteinium. And I guess we should talk a little bit about the naming because the IUPAC actually has rules around this. It says new elements have to be named after a, and this is very interesting, a mineral, a place or a country, a property, or a scientist, or a mythological concept, which is fascinating. So we have some of the latest elements.

• 45:19Speaker 05

  I believe in 2016 is when we got 113 through 18. We got the element tennesene because it was, there were institutions in Tennessee that led to the discovery of this super-heavy element. And so they named it tennesene. And most of them sort of follow that naming convention.

• 45:37Josh Clark?

  Yeah, nehonium is named after Nihon, which is the Japanese name for Japan. A moscovian is named after Moscow, where the lab where that was created. And a ganasan, oganasan, oganasan? Oganasan? That's what it is. It's named after a guy named Yuri Oganeshian, who is a Russian, essentially, element hunter now.

• 46:03Josh Clark?

  He has got tons of funding behind him, has set up new particle accelerators with more and more energy and is bashing things together in the search for entirely new elements that not only don't exist on Earth, they may not exist anywhere else in the universe. They may only exist theoretically until Ognesian manages to smash the right atoms together to create those elements for a picosecond. Like, they're so unstable that they last almost no time at all, which makes them totally useless to us.

• 46:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, as of now.

• 46:39Josh Clark?

  The fact that, like you said, they predicted, I think it's going to go up to 173.

• 46:44Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 46:45Josh Clark?

  And we're at 100 and what?

• 46:47Speaker 05

  18.

• 46:48Josh Clark?

  Makes people like Ognesian just crazy. Like, they want to find them all. And he actually found a couple of those, most recent ones, that were inducted, I guess, in the periodic table in 2016.

• 47:02Speaker 05

  Yeah. And this is kind of cool, too. Ognesian apparently wanted to name that element stardust in honor of David Bowie, but it didn't fit the naming criteria.

• 47:14Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah?

• 47:15Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 47:16Josh Clark?

  Too bad. So sad.

• 47:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, too bad. So as far as the sort of the coda on this, Libby is keen to point out that there are gaps in the framework still. There are issues when you look at the periodic table. You needn't only look at the very first one, hydrogen, at the far left of the table. It's there because it has that one electron, but it is not like any of the rest of its group, because the rest of them are all alkali metals. It's actually more similar to something like chlorine, which is in the second column from the right.

• 47:51Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 47:52Speaker 05

  But, you know, there's still debate on like... It's not settled on where things should be placed on these various and there have been, you know, there are alternative tables that people have put out over the years with different tweaks, some small, some large, and it's, it's pretty interesting, I think.

• 48:07Josh Clark?

  And there's also that two-period section that's always removed from the rest of the, the periodic table, it's put down below it. Those two sections actually go in.

• 48:19Speaker 05

  That's the F-block, right?

• 48:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah, the, the bottom two rows. So they come after, I think, barium and just go all the way over to, oh, I can't remember the other one, but imagine that the periodic table was, looked like it did, but then the bottom two rows were about twice as long as they are now. It'd look weird and it's because you would take that lower F-block and put it into its proper place if you're arranging these things by atomic number. But the reason why the F-block is pulled out is because those two rows of elements, the actinides and lathanides, I think, they might like follow an atomic number in that way,

• 49:03Josh Clark?

  but their properties are totally different from their periods or their groups. And the reason why is because they're the only two groups that have the F-position subshell filled by an electron, which completely alters their everything. It's just different than all of the other ones. And it's, it's different enough that they just basically removed it until they can figure out where it should sit, because depending on how you interpret where, like how the periodic table should be laid out, they should go here, they should go there, or they should just stay out like they are now.

• 49:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, uh, there are some, and, and it's kind of fun to look some of these up if you want to see some kind of cool, at the very least, just aesthetic examples, and then they're not just like, oh, this looks cooler. Uh, it makes sense to the person who has put out this whatever alternative or alternate periodic table, like in 1949, Livia found one from Life Magazine uh, that is a spiral, and there are quite a few different spiral or spirilic designs, where you have hydrogen at the center and it's sort of like racetrack shape.

• 50:14Speaker 05

  If you look at any, just look up spiral based periodic chart and they're very nice to look at. I imagine they're much, much harder to sort of make sense of and read unless you're the person who, who made it.

• 50:26Josh Clark?

  Or a chemist.

• 50:28Speaker 05

  Yeah, a chemist would still probably be like, well, why are you doing it that way?

• 50:33Josh Clark?

  I liked it the other way.

• 50:35Speaker 05

  Uh, or that 3D one that Timothy Stowe, uh, came up with that I think physicists are pretty keen on that has three axes of different colors that represent quantum numbers, uh, that describe the electrons, but it's, you know, if you look at a 3D version, that's kind of cool too. But if you find the one, the traditional one confusing as a non-chemist, just try looking at any of these, these other ones. It's really confusing.

• 50:59Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And it's, all it is, is it's saying, well, actually, no, I think we should arrange them so that they're connected more by this property, like electronegativity, or they're shiny, or they're pretty. I like this, these elements and so we're going to put them together. These are my favorite elements. It's just kind of like that. And so you can bend them in all sorts of weird shapes.

• 51:19Speaker 05

  Yeah. I have my own periodic table I've designed.

• 51:21Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah?

• 51:23Speaker 05

  And it is just a big black, uh, block, uh, and then Times New Roman in yellow lettering in the middle. It says, who gives a S?

• 51:34Josh Clark?

  I would have imagined it was a traditional periodic table, but scratched out with a pen on it violently.

• 51:40Speaker 05

  No, that's good. I like that better. I'm going to change mine.

• 51:42Josh Clark?

  I've got, uh, one other thing that doesn't, it has a lot to do with everything, but not anything we're going to go into. But there are some, especially, um, those, uh, elements that don't occur in nature and they have to, to create in particle accelerators. But also some that occur in nature, like gold and mercury are two good examples. They have electrons that spin so fast that are moving at such incredible energies that they actually are like a significant fraction of the speed of light. That's how fast they're going. And it doesn't matter whether you're talking about, uh, like a photon or a planet or a black hole or an electron.

• 52:23Josh Clark?

  Anything that has mass and can move at anything like half the speed of light is going to actually bend time and space. And so for some, uh, kinds of elements that have relativistic speeds, meaning their electrons travel close to the speed of light. They have all sorts of freaky deaky properties. It's why gold is gold. Not going to get into that. Just trust me. It's why gold is gold. But also it means that if you could go into those atoms and just kind of exist in them as if they were a universe, you would see that the time and space was bent compared to how time and space exists outside of those atoms, like on our level. That's what atomic scientists have figured out.

• 53:08Josh Clark?

  And it's actually kind of having a mind breaking effect on the periodic table to an extent.

• 53:15Speaker 05

  Amazing.

• 53:17Josh Clark?

  I think so, too. That's it, Chuck. We did periodic tables. It's done. You did great.

• 53:22Speaker 05

  Oh, boy. We don't have to do it again?

• 53:23Josh Clark?

  No, I don't think so. God, I hope not. Yeah. What is this? Murphy's Law?

• 53:31Josh Clark?

  Well, since I said Murphy's Law and Chuck laughed because he got the joke, you may not have, and that's okay. That means it's time for listener mail.

• 53:40Speaker 05

  All right, I'm going to call this a very quick follow up from our Halloween episode. As we record this, it is actually Halloween. So that has just come out today. And we have something from Owen that perhaps explains something that we kind of wondered about. Hey, guys. Once again, loving the yearly spooktacular, figured I'd mention my take on what the hermit meant. Hermit? Hermit meant when he said the man's eyes didn't match his mouth.

• 54:07Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 54:08Speaker 05

  I think it might have something to do with honesty, like the words of encouragement were somehow disingenuine. That lined up with the idea that the hermit is sort of seeing flaws and faults. That makes sense to me. Eyes didn't match his mouth.

• 54:20Josh Clark?

  That's like the best explanation I've heard so far. It's also the only explanation, but it's a good one.

• 54:25Speaker 05

  And I think that's totally it. And Owen says, regardless of whether that's the author's intent, I'm using the description in a song I'm writing.

• 54:32Josh Clark?

  Oh, cool.

• 54:32Speaker 05

  So thanks for the inspiration. And in all honesty, the voice work is on point this year. That is from Owen.

• 54:40Josh Clark?

  Thanks a lot, Owen. Here's a, here's some inspiration for the musical part of your song.

• 54:53Speaker 05

  No.

• 54:54Josh Clark?

  If you want to be like Owen and write in to explain something to us, we love that kind of thing. You can put it in an email and send it off to [email protected].

• 55:08Speaker 04

  Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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