The Stuff You Should Know Doin’ Science Playlist: How Big Bang Theory Works, with Neil deGrasse Tyson

There are a number of theories for how the universe evolved but none are more widely accepted than the Big Bang theory. Learn about the mind-boggling details of the early universe and hear Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson talk about what it will take for us to know its origins. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:04Josh Clark?

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• 1:43Josh Clark?

  Yes, indeed, you read that right. If you made it all the way to the end of the very lengthy title of this Science Playlist episode, we got Neil deGrasse Tyson to sit in for an interview with us, and it was pretty boss. And a couple of years later, he was nice enough to have me come on StarTalk to talk about my end of the World Series. He had this rapid-fire question segment that he does every time, and he wondered aloud at some point why it was going so slow. And the secret answer was that my tangents were derailing the rapid-fire part. At any rate, even without NDT, this episode is pretty great, as everyone knows any talk about the origin of time and space is cosmologerific. So I hope you feel that way about this episode, too.

• 2:26Speaker 00

  Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from HowStuffWorks.com.

• 2:36Josh Clark?

  Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Chipper Josh Clark. There's Chipper Charles Pryant. Oh, that's your new nickname.

• 2:43Speaker 02

  Chipper Charles?

• 2:44Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 2:44Speaker 02

  Eesh.

• 2:45Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and then there's Jerry.

• 2:47Speaker 02

  She's not Chipper.

• 2:48Josh Clark?

  She is actually Chipper today.

• 2:50Speaker 02

  I'm not Chipper. I'm grumpy because this topic...

• 2:52Josh Clark?

  I know.

• 2:52Speaker 02

  Man, oh, man. My head has already melted.

• 2:55Josh Clark?

  You guys should see the vein in Chuck's forehead. It is protruding.

• 2:59Speaker 02

  Well, we'll do our best. That's all I'll say.

• 3:01Josh Clark?

  Of course. Dude, we're not astrophysicists, but we do have an astrophysicist coming on as a guest at the end of the episode, don't we?

• 3:08Speaker 02

  Yes, my friend. You interviewed Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson, or as I like to call him, NDT.

• 3:16Josh Clark?

  Sure, that's what I call him, too. NDT is dynamite.

• 3:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I was unable to be on the interview for various tooth-related reasons. So you took it upon yourself, and I think an interview like that is probably just better for one person anyway. It gets a little clumsy if two people that don't know anything about astrophysics are trying to glean information.

• 3:37Josh Clark?

  Oh, here's my question.

• 3:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:40Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 3:40Speaker 02

  What'd you eat for breakfast, doctor?

• 3:44Josh Clark?

  But yeah, it was very kind of him to come on, and we want to thank our friends at the Fox Theatre, where he's going to be on April 20th here in Atlanta.

• 3:52Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 3:53Josh Clark?

  For hooking that up. So thanks to everybody who made that happen, because it's a great interview, as you guys will hear at the end of this episode.

• 3:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, I loved listening to it, and I'm gonna go ahead and say my two favorite parts are probably one that won't make it in, when you said that you're happy to plug the Fox Theatre show, and he was like, "Don't bother, it's gonna be sold out."

• 4:10Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I like that, too.

• 4:12Speaker 02

  And then at the end, when you thanked him for advancing our understanding of this light years, and he was like, "That's not nearly enough."

• 4:19Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 4:19Speaker 02

  He was like, "A light year is not very far. Thanks."

• 4:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah, so I changed it to parse it, because he's like, "You're getting closer."

• 4:24Speaker 02

  I know. It was very funny, actually. I hope you leave that part in there.

• 4:27Josh Clark?

  I hope so. And later on, I immediately regretted not saying, "Well, you advanced our show billions and billions of light years."

• 4:36Speaker 02

  He would've appreciated that.

• 4:37Josh Clark?

  Yeah, he would've, and I didn't do it.

• 4:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:39Josh Clark?

  I wasn't sharp enough.

• 4:40Speaker 02

  It was a good interview, though, so...

• 4:41Josh Clark?

  Thanks.

• 4:42Speaker 02

  Feel free to skip right ahead to that, is what I say.

• 4:45Josh Clark?

  We'll lay here and go to sleep. So we're talking about the Big Bang Theory. And not the TV show, so settle down nerds.

• 4:53Speaker 02

  I think he was on that show though, wasn't he?

• 4:55Josh Clark?

  I'm sure.

• 4:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:57Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 4:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, he made an appearance.

• 4:58Josh Clark?

  Um, I think all you have to do is say like, you will further science if you appear on this. He's like, I'll do it.

• 5:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've never seen one episode of that show.

• 5:07Josh Clark?

  Uh, I guess I've maybe seen some here or there. It's, it's, I think, literally the most popular show in the world.

• 5:15Speaker 02

  Uh.

• 5:16Josh Clark?

  Or it was like last season or the season before, like it's just taken off like a rocket. And hats off to them too, because they like mix actual science and science jokes and all that stuff. It's, it's like smartening up the world.

• 5:29Speaker 02

  Well, I'll tell you one quote I got from Mr. Tyson, uh, Dr. Tyson, from, uh, the internet. And it was, I actually heard him say it, so I know it was a real quote. Uh, he said that, you know, people ask, do you believe in the Big Bang Theory? And, uh, and only the way that he can. He was like, well, it's not a matter of believing. He said, I, I'd only believe in things that are evidence-based. And he said, the question should be that you posit to people, of all the data and evidence out there, what theory is best supported? Uh, and he said, it's the Big Bang Theory.

• 6:01Josh Clark?

  Sure, right. And, um, our colleague Jonathan Strickland, who wrote the article that this is based on, and kudos to that cat. Because he took some really, really difficult concepts and explained it really well.

• 6:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, he explained it in a way that I came close to understanding.

• 6:17Josh Clark?

  Right, same here.

• 6:18Speaker 02

  At times.

• 6:18Josh Clark?

  But he makes that same point too, that, that, um, not only is the Big Bang Theory a theory, which obviously cannot be proven, can only be disproven. Um, but that there are other competing theories out there too, which we'll talk about later.

• 6:31Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 6:31Josh Clark?

  Um, but that for the most part, it has the most, um, observational evidence backing it up, including the recent, um, confirmation of gravitational waves. Which made a huge stir. Um, and that as a result, it's the most widely subscribed to theory among scientists. As describing the early universe. And that's a big thing. There's a big distinction about that. A lot of people think that the Big Bang describes the formation of the universe.

• 6:57Speaker 02

  Not true.

• 6:58Josh Clark?

  No, the Big Bang describes the time starting very soon after the universe formed.

• 7:07Josh Clark?

  But it does not go back into where the origin of the universe came from, what came before it.

• 7:13Speaker 02

  No.

• 7:13Josh Clark?

  And it actually doesn't even go all the way back to that point where everything started. It just can't because science falls apart as we'll see the further you try to go back in time. Because, you know, time ceases to exist at that point.

• 7:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, if the universe were a human being, it's the Big Bang Theory sort of describes the point where the sperm and the egg meet up.

• 7:37Josh Clark?

  It describes the time a trillionth of a trillionth of a second after they met up. What about that?

• 7:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, which is, you know.

• 7:45Josh Clark?

  It's close.

• 7:46Speaker 02

  It's a pretty great time.

• 7:47Josh Clark?

  It is. So another misconception Chuck is that the Big Bang was an explosion. And that's not, that's not correct.

• 7:56Speaker 02

  No, in fact, a man named Sir Fred Hoyle is the one who gave it a name almost, well, not almost, he gave it to it in jest.

• 8:04Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 8:05Speaker 02

  As sort of an insult, because he was a believer, I don't know if he always was, but he was a believer at the time in the steady state theory.

• 8:13Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 8:13Speaker 02

  And it was like, yeah, this explosion, this big bang.

• 8:16Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 8:17Speaker 02

  But it's not an explosion at all.

• 8:19Josh Clark?

  So Chuck.

• 8:20Speaker 02

  It's a, it's a rapid expansion.

• 8:22Josh Clark?

  It was, and the best way to think of it is like this, so like an explosion, right? Let's say you have a planet and that planet is actually the universe and it's just floating there in space.

• 8:30Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 8:30Josh Clark?

  And Darth Vader shoots it with the Death Star and it goes, right?

• 8:34Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 8:34Josh Clark?

  And it goes everywhere.

• 8:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:35Josh Clark?

  Starts scattering everywhere, but it's scattering within the boundaries, the confines of spaces we understand it.

• 8:40Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 8:41Josh Clark?

  That would be the popular conception of what the Big Bang represents. Not at all. What the Big Bang actually says is that space itself inflated.

• 8:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:52Josh Clark?

  It expanded and that all the stuff that was in it was in this. Very tightly wound, dense, incredibly hot core. That was a singularity, basically, that expanded into the universe that's as big as we understand it now.

• 9:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, something that was so tiny and hot, it had an infinite amount of density. Cause everything we know was crammed in. You know what it's like? It's like, uh, if Neil deGrasse Tyson listens to this, he's going to love this.

• 9:25Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 9:25Speaker 02

  You know the little pellets that you would get with your fireworks, a little black pellet?

• 9:29Josh Clark?

  Uh huh.

• 9:30Speaker 02

  And then you light it.

• 9:30Josh Clark?

  A smoke snake.

• 9:31Speaker 02

  And then it snakes out to like, you know, several feet.

• 9:34Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 9:35Speaker 02

  That's, that's like it, except if that pellet were like thousands and thousands and thousands of fraction of the size of a head of a pin.

• 9:42Josh Clark?

  Right. I think that's a great analogy.

• 9:45Speaker 02

  And I'm just gonna leave the room.

• 9:47Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 9:48Speaker 02

  And I'll come back in 40 minutes.

• 9:50Josh Clark?

  But, but even still Chuck, take that analogy, right? When you imagine that, you imagine that snake growing that you, on a sidewalk and maybe there's kind of grass in your view and it's at night and there's a car parked there because you're outside, right?

• 10:03Speaker 02

  Well, sure.

• 10:04Josh Clark?

  That's where our brain wants to take us.

• 10:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:06Josh Clark?

  We want to confine what we know within the boundaries of our universe. What we're talking about is the universe itself growing.

• 10:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:17Josh Clark?

  And expanding in nothingness.

• 10:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, and he points out in the interview, I don't want to spoil it, but he kind of blows my mind when he starts talking about like, this goes beyond what our human senses can understand.

• 10:28Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 10:29Speaker 02

  Sight and sound, like, forget about it.

• 10:30Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and that's how nobody's gonna be able to pin anything on us, cause we'll be like, well, we just can't comprehend that, so how could you blame us for getting it wrong?

• 10:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:40Josh Clark?

  So, um, Chuck.

• 10:42Speaker 02

  Now I'm gonna leave the room.

• 10:43Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 10:44Speaker 02

  And you need what, a half an hour?

• 10:46Josh Clark?

  It may take a little longer than that.

• 10:48Speaker 02

  No, I get parts of it, so I'll just chime in when I feel confident.

• 10:51Josh Clark?

  There's a line, right, that Strickland had in here. It was, he says that "the earliest moments of the Big Bang, all of the matter, energy, and space we could observe was compressed to an area of zero volume and infinite density." Doesn't that sound like the line from a religious text or something like that?

• 11:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:09Josh Clark?

  Isn't it just like right there on that border between like science and religion, basically?

• 11:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, and now take this drug and everyone take their clothes off and follow me into the grand room.

• 11:19Josh Clark?

  And we'll understand what I'm talking about.

• 11:22Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, and you know what? Uh, when Strickland and scientists and cosmologists talk about that, that is what is known as a singularity.

• 11:30Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 11:31Speaker 02

  That thing with zero volume and infinite density.

• 11:34Josh Clark?

  Right, so, um, I think it bears repeating at least one more time. What we're talking about is all of the matter, all of the energy, all of the heat, all the radiation, everything in the universe that is here or ever was here over the last 13 point roughly seven to nine billion years.

• 11:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:53Josh Clark?

  Was in a, a point that was 23 orders of magnitude smaller

• 12:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:03Josh Clark?

  than the diameter of an atom.

• 12:05Speaker 02

  You almost, you just caught yourself wanting to say it's like a little ball, but there's not even circularism.

• 12:10Josh Clark?

  Right, yeah.

• 12:11Speaker 02

  Is that a word?

• 12:12Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 12:13Speaker 02

  There was nothing circular.

• 12:14Josh Clark?

  And so at this time, at this point, um, we know that it was very, very hot.

• 12:19Speaker 02

  Sure, makes sense.

• 12:20Josh Clark?

  But mind-bogglingly hot, like you can't even think of all the zeros associated with the degrees of Kelvin or Fahrenheit or Celsius, right?

• 12:28Speaker 02

  Right.

• 12:28Josh Clark?

  And it was incredibly dense, and then something happened. We don't know what that was. Science simply isn't equipped to explain it or understand it or detect it.

• 12:38Speaker 02

  Right.

• 12:39Josh Clark?

  Something happened to make this... Incredibly dense ball, or whatever it was.

• 12:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, there was no ball.

• 12:46Josh Clark?

  Um, expand.

• 12:48Speaker 02

  Yes, and it was not like the, the smoke snake. It wasn't a child with a lighter.

• 12:54Josh Clark?

  You don't know that? Neil deGrasse Tyson doesn't know that? Nobody knows that.

• 12:59Speaker 02

  So, this, uh, expanding happened really, really, really fast. And we'll talk later about just those first few seconds afterward. Like, that's how fast we're talking.

• 13:10Josh Clark?

  Well, few, like, trillions of a second.

• 13:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:13Josh Clark?

  Is how they break it down. Like, there, this, so much happened in that first, literally the first second of the origin of the universe.

• 13:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:20Josh Clark?

  That, um, that there are different ages and epochs that happened in like, trillions of a second.

• 13:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's really mind blowing. So, as things expanded though, in those first few seconds, and today, things are still expanding.

• 13:35Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 13:36Speaker 02

  Things are expanding and things are cooling down, even as we speak.

• 13:39Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 13:40Speaker 02

  Literally every second that we're on the earth, we're expanding and, well, not us, but the, the universe is expanding and cooling.

• 13:47Josh Clark?

  Right, exactly. And as a matter of fact, from what I understand, um, our, our region of the universe, which is, um, something like 90 billion light years across, is, is no longer expanding, but other parts of the universe are expanding.

• 14:02Speaker 02

  Right.

• 14:03Josh Clark?

  And there's this really great article about cosmology and where it stands right now. It's in Aon.

• 14:08Speaker 02

  Not cosmetology.

• 14:09Josh Clark?

  No, cosmology.

• 14:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 14:11Josh Clark?

  Um, and it was written by a guy named Ross Anderson, and I think it's called "In the Beginning", and it's incredibly well-written, but he makes a really great analogy. He says that, that 90 billion light year across portion of the universe that we inhabit, that we consider our own.

• 14:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:29Josh Clark?

  Is but a small section of one tiny bubble that floats along on a frothy sea whose proportions defy comprehension.

• 14:40Josh Clark?

  Isn't that neat?

• 14:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:41Josh Clark?

  And that's just our section of the universe, right?

• 14:43Speaker 02

  That's our little neighborhood.

• 14:44Josh Clark?

  So the universe is unknowably large. We sound like H.P. Lovecraft here describing this stuff.

• 14:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:52Josh Clark?

  And still, some parts of it are expanding. And apparently, in the early universe, when it was a singularity, the four forces, the four fundamental forces.

• 15:03Speaker 02

  The dark side, the, oh, wait. I thought you were going, I thought you meant the Star Wars universe.

• 15:07Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I was.

• 15:08Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 15:09Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 15:10Speaker 02

  So the force, the dark side, midi-chlorians.

• 15:13Josh Clark?

  And Mark Hamill's hair.

• 15:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, and prequels. The four basic forces, as everyone knows, electromagnetism, strong nuclear force, weak nuclear force, and gravity.

• 15:24Josh Clark?

  Right, and at that singularity, before the universe expanded, began to expand, all of them were coupled together into a single unified force.

• 15:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, which we don't understand how.

• 15:34Josh Clark?

  No, we don't, and as a matter of fact, trying to get them back together is one of the great pursuits of physics. Because if we can figure out how they were all unified, we can start to understand the science we need, the paradigm we need to understand the origins of the universe, but we just can't figure out how to do it, right?

• 15:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, one thing that kind of blows my mind with this is when, you know, we get to the stuff later on about, does it defy other laws of physics and stuff? Like, basically, every answer is like, the further you travel back toward that singularity, the less all these rules that we think we understand apply.

• 16:09Josh Clark?

  Right, it falls apart.

• 16:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, so just, you know, we will probably never understand this stuff.

• 16:14Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 16:15Speaker 02

  You know, at that very singular moment.

• 16:18Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I don't know, I disagree. I think I disagree, yeah, I think that we are maybe a century or two away from understanding it.

• 16:27Speaker 02

  Well, you just clearly pulled that out of your hat.

• 16:29Josh Clark?

  Well, I totally did.

• 16:30Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 16:31Josh Clark?

  But we've made some-

• 16:32Speaker 02

  Another 126 years.

• 16:33Josh Clark?

  Well, no, we've made some incredibly huge strides in the last, like, 150, 200 years in our understanding thus far, right? So I think that's not a bad guess, right?

• 16:43Speaker 02

  So it'd be a, it'd be a string theorist, right? To marry all these, uh-

• 16:47Josh Clark?

  I don't know.

• 16:48Speaker 02

  Probably.

• 16:48Josh Clark?

  I don't know, and that's what NDT said. That's what we call them now.

• 16:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:52Josh Clark?

  That's what he said. He was like, who knows? It could be string theory. Maybe someone will be able to come up with a unified theory, what's called the theory of everything, that unifies the four fundamental forces back into their their single version of a force.

• 17:06Speaker 02

  Man.

• 17:06Josh Clark?

  Or maybe we just don't understand quantum physics enough quite yet.

• 17:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:10Josh Clark?

  And when we figure that out a little more, that will unlock some keys for us.

• 17:16Speaker 02

  Unbelievable.

• 17:16Josh Clark?

  So Chuck, before we get into the how we started to come to understand the big bang and the origin of the universe, let's take a break real quick, alright?

• 17:26Speaker 02

  I'm gonna go wipe my brow.

• 17:27Josh Clark?

  You're doing great.

• 17:43Speaker 03

  First thought is like, wow, how are we gonna do all this?

• 17:46Speaker 04

  Hey, this is Josh and Chuck from Stuff You Should Know.

• 17:49Speaker 02

  That's Alan Goya, planning engineer at AT&T, and he's talking about Intuit Dome, home of the Los Angeles Clippers, where every seat, screen, phone, and transaction is connected with AT&T fiber and 5G, redefining the fans' experience. And Alan's master plan made it all possible.

• 18:04Speaker 03

  It was gonna rival anything that was already built. And that takes quite a bit of people and different teams to all be on the same page.

• 18:12Speaker 04

  That includes field services manager Drexel Jones. His team made sure it all came together and held up on game day. Through what Alan's whole crew designed, we connected the event visitors to the world.

• 18:24Speaker 02

  And after years of hard work and collaboration, it was opening night.

• 18:28Speaker 04

  To actually see the whole stadium light up and data's flowing is a beautiful thing.

• 18:32Speaker 03

  What the fans' experience is incredible. It gave me a lot of pride.

• 18:35Speaker 04

  AT&T, connecting fans to what they love.

• 18:39Speaker 05

  Connecting changes everything. AT&T.

• 18:45Speaker 02

  You know, you're never done decorating your home. You know what I mean?

• 18:48Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 18:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, because it's a process. There's always something you could do, or buy, or update. The only question is, what's next? For us, our animals just wear out our rugs so quickly. It's usually a new rug.

• 18:59Josh Clark?

  Well, Chuck, whether you need a rug, or whatever is next for you, you can go to Wayfair. It's the smart place to get it.

• 19:06Speaker 02

  That's right. Whatever your style, whatever your budget, whatever you're looking for, Wayfair makes it easy to find it. And you can feel good about your purchases, too, because Wayfair verified products go through a thorough 10-point quality inspection.

• 19:17Josh Clark?

  And with over 20 million 5-star reviews, Wayfair must be doing something right. You can find pieces made for real life and get even more value with Wayfair Rewards. Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R dot com.

• 19:43Josh Clark?

  Everyone has a story to tell. What's yours? The moment you met your partner, landed that promotion? For people living with a rare disease, life can feel divided into before the diagnosis and all the after moments that follow. On Voices of VivGart, VivGart is also known as its generic name, Efgartigimod alfa Fcab, you'll hear powerful stories from people facing challenges and embracing a life with a rare disease.

• 20:07Speaker 02

  Join host Andra Stratten as she guides listeners through honest conversations about life after diagnosis. You'll hear how each guest worked with her care team on their treatment plan, as well as their personal challenges, setbacks, progress, and moments of connection.

• 20:20Josh Clark?

  These stories reveal that life is bigger than a moment, a condition, or a tough day. Listen to Voices of VivGart on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 20:45Speaker 02

  All right, I sort of get this part, so.

• 20:48Josh Clark?

  The history part?

• 20:48Speaker 02

  I'm gonna talk a little bit about it.

• 20:51Speaker 02

  And this makes a lot of sense to me. Go back in time. Let's get in the Wayback Machine.

• 20:55Josh Clark?

  Oh, yes, let's.

• 21:01Speaker 02

  Boy, it feels so safe and comfortable in here.

• 21:03Josh Clark?

  I know. It stinks of kerosene.

• 21:06Speaker 02

  It does, weirdly. It's the 1800s, and astronomers started using something called a spectroscope, which is pretty nifty. We've talked about light waves in here before. A spectroscope is something that divides that light spectrum up into the wavelengths. Blue on the left, red on the right, and as you go further toward the red, the wavelengths grow longer. So that's part one.

• 21:29Josh Clark?

  Right, right. That was spectroscopes.

• 21:33Speaker 02

  Yes, that's light waves.

• 21:34Josh Clark?

  Right, and around the same time, a guy named Christian Doppler was tinkering with the frequency of sound waves, right? He was studying those.

• 21:45Speaker 02

  Because he's a smart guy.

• 21:46Josh Clark?

  He is.

• 21:46Speaker 02

  And he said, "You know what? It's weird that when I sit by a train, it sounds different as it goes by me, approaches, then goes by me and goes further away from me."

• 21:55Josh Clark?

  Right, it sounds different, then that doesn't really make any sense.

• 21:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, and whereas most people would just eat their figgy pudding and go about their day, he wanted to try and explain it.

• 22:04Josh Clark?

  He was like, anybody else would've been like, "This new Charles Dickens book is top-notch."

• 22:08Speaker 02

  So he said, "You know what? As this noise approaches you, the sound waves it generates compress. It's going to change that frequency, or at least how you perceive it, in a different pitch. So as it moves away from you, those waves are going to stretch, that pitch goes down, and I'm going to name this effect after myself."

• 22:26Josh Clark?

  Right. Well, I'll let my wife do it. So I don't look like a jerk.

• 22:30Speaker 02

  Right, so basically you marry these two things, light wavelengths and the Doppler effect.

• 22:35Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 22:36Speaker 02

  And it sort of led us down this path to where we could understand the Big Bang Theory.

• 22:41Josh Clark?

  Right, it would indicate that something that was emitting light out there in the universe, whose light moved toward the red end of the spectrum, would be emitting longer wavelengths, which would suggest, based on Christian Doppler's findings, that it was moving away, right?

• 23:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, and they found that. They said, "Look at these stars. Some of the light is falling into this right-hand side, and does that mean it's..." Moving away and it's getting faster.

• 23:11Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 23:11Speaker 02

  Like it wants to get away from us.

• 23:13Josh Clark?

  That's where Edwin Hubble came in. He basically said, yeah, this is really weird, guys, because some of these stars appear to have a velocity that's proportional to its distance from the earth. Like, there seems to be some sort of rhyme or reason here to it.

• 23:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:28Josh Clark?

  And it suggested to Hubble and later on to everybody else, including Einstein, as we'll see, that the universe itself was expanding. And this is where we came to the genuine origin of the Big Bang Theory. The idea that the universe was expanding and

• 23:47Speaker 02

  At a constant rate too, right?

• 23:49Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 23:49Speaker 02

  Is that the idea? Is that the Hubble constant?

• 23:52Josh Clark?

  No, no, no. The Hubble constant is the proportion between, or the relationship between how fast something is moving away from us

• 24:02Speaker 02

  Right.

• 24:03Josh Clark?

  to its distance from us.

• 24:05Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, I guess it didn't mean constant rate. I mean...

• 24:08Josh Clark?

  And actually, no, the universe appears to be expanding more quickly than it was before.

• 24:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 24:13Josh Clark?

  Yeah. So it's increasing, which is

• 24:15Speaker 02

  That's what I meant.

• 24:15Josh Clark?

  Makes a lot of people really nervous.

• 24:17Speaker 02

  It's a constant in its relationship.

• 24:18Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 24:18Speaker 02

  Does that make sense?

• 24:19Josh Clark?

  Yeah, the Hubble constant has to do not necessarily with the inflation of the universe itself, or the expansion of the universe itself, but that how far, or how fast, say, a star is moving away from us. And the further away from us it is, it appears to be moving faster than others that are closer.

• 24:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, and we should point out, you said inflation and/or expansion, and apparently, if you're an insider, if you're a scientist, you'd probably say inflation.

• 24:44Josh Clark?

  Sure. So, expansion is the basis of the Big Bang Theory. It's the idea that the universe has expanded over time. So that by logic, since time is one of the four dimensions that we live in, right? You've got the three dimensions plus time, so therefore, spacetime describes the fabric of the universe and the reality we live in, right?

• 25:05Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 25:06Josh Clark?

  So by logic of that, if you went backward in time, the universe would be smaller and smaller and smaller. And the more they started looking into it, the more their minds started popping as they realized, like, wow, this thing was really, really small once. And that's the basis of it. Inflation theory comes in and suggests how that happened, how that expansion happened. And it fills in a lot of blanks that we'll also talk about.

• 25:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, so you mentioned Einstein earlier. He's a noted, smart guy.

• 25:35Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 25:36Speaker 02

  Um, and he actually had some issues, uh, because it conflicted somewhat with his, uh, general relativity theories. Cause he subscribed to his own theory that the universe was static. It's not expanding.

• 25:48Josh Clark?

  Right. And I don't, I don't, I think like, he was like a member of the, there's a way of viewing the universe that like, it was always this way. It was always spread out this way.

• 25:56Speaker 02

  Right.

• 25:56Josh Clark?

  It wasn't getting bigger. That's nuts. And so he figured that his general theory of relativity would prove this. And actually he was extremely surprised to find that his own general theory of relativity actually said, no, the universe is either expanding or contracting. It's certainly not steady. And then Edwin Hubble came along and he had his findings and Einstein said, you know what? I was wrong.

• 26:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. I'm a, I'm a big enough man to admit it.

• 26:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah. That's the kind of guy I am.

• 26:22Speaker 02

  Uh, and one day people are going to keep my brain in a jar in a barn.

• 26:25Josh Clark?

  And slice it up. It's going to go on a car trip. That was a good episode we did too.

• 26:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. Did we do one on that?

• 26:31Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 26:32Speaker 02

  On its own?

• 26:32Josh Clark?

  Einstein's brain.

• 26:33Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, that's right. I remember. Boy, those were the good old days.

• 26:36Josh Clark?

  Einstein's brain episodes?

• 26:37Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 26:38Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 26:38Speaker 02

  All right. So, uh, let's talk about some of the predictions, uh, that rose from the, uh, the theory that the universe is expanding. Uh, one is, uh, and Strickland says the universe is homogeneous and isotropic, which is a fancy way of saying it's, it's made up of the same materials in completely uniform.

• 26:59Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Here is one of the first times we run into something where you're like, what are you talking about? It's funny. If you read Strickland's article and I sent him an email saying as much that I was like, this is really well-written.

• 27:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:10Josh Clark?

  But if you just read the words you're saying, it sounds like it was written by someone who is totally insane.

• 27:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:16Josh Clark?

  You know?

• 27:17Speaker 02

  I know.

• 27:17Josh Clark?

  And he makes the point too. He's like, well, yeah, all you have to do is look out into the Milky Way or anything like that. Anything we can see easily and see that it looks different. Like there's not a star that looks just like our sun with the same number of planets looking around.

• 27:31Speaker 02

  Right.

• 27:31Josh Clark?

  The point is, is that you look, if you go out of several orders of magnification and look at the universe outside of any given galaxy.

• 27:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:39Josh Clark?

  You're going to see that actually, yeah, everything's distributed pretty evenly.

• 27:44Speaker 02

  Right.

• 27:44Josh Clark?

  Throughout the universe. And so that makes it homogeneous. And then secondly, it's isotropic, meaning that there is no center to the universe. There's no central point.

• 27:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. Which some people posit that the earth is the center of the universe. Uh, well, we'll talk a little bit about that later.

• 27:58Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 27:59Speaker 02

  But that's wrong, right?

• 28:01Josh Clark?

  I mean, it hasn't been disproven, but it's just extremely unlikely, I think.

• 28:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it's a very human-centric thing to say.

• 28:09Josh Clark?

  But the reason why some people say that is that they are, if you look around,

• 28:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:14Josh Clark?

  that expansion that we're seeing is everything's going away from us.

• 28:19Speaker 02

  Right.

• 28:20Josh Clark?

  Which is like, why is that happening? Like, we should be going along at least with, with something else. But the idea is that we're not, because we're the center of the universe, but the, the implications of that are so mind-boggling that it's just not possible, almost.

• 28:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:36Josh Clark?

  That we're actually at the center of the universe when we're just this small segment of a tiny bubble in a frothy sea that defies proportions. There's no way that's the center of the universe.

• 28:46Speaker 02

  Uh, so another prediction was, um, and, uh, we talked a little bit about the intense heat, uh, at the very first moments of the Big Bang. Uh, and if that were true, then you would feel and see this radiation, I guess not see it, but you would have this radiation expanded over the entire galaxy.

• 29:06Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 29:06Speaker 02

  In roughly equal proportions.

• 29:08Josh Clark?

  Yeah, because again, remember, the universe is homogeneous and isotropic, so if there was radiation, it should be evenly distributed.

• 29:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, there'd be like, they call it an echo, I've seen described in some circles.

• 29:19Josh Clark?

  Right, okay, so apparently back in the 40s, they detected this stuff and didn't know what they were looking at. And in the 60s, they figured out, holy cow, this is the cosmic microwave background, which is basically, um, I think of it as more like a fingerprint, the fingerprints of the universe, right?

• 29:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:37Josh Clark?

  And it's evenly distributed. It's this trace radiation that's still around from the Big Bang.

• 29:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:44Josh Clark?

  Which is pretty amazing. So, when you put that and the discovery that the universe does seem to be homogeneous and isotropic, along with the fact that we discovered this cosmic radiation background that's evenly distributed throughout the universe, it really gives a lot of credence to the Big Bang theory. And so too, does this, um, gravitational wave.

• 30:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:03Josh Clark?

  The gravitational wave discovery, they apparently found, um, curls in the cosmic microwave background that were, are remnants of gravitational wave from the Big Bang too. So it's just getting supported all over the place and everybody's super happy about it.

• 30:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's like real observational data there.

• 32:34Josh Clark?

  Oh, that's good stuff.

• 32:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:35Josh Clark?

  What kind?

• 32:36Speaker 02

  Stare at the wall and have some pie.

• 32:37Josh Clark?

  What do you recommend?

• 32:38Speaker 02

  Doesn't matter.

• 32:39Josh Clark?

  Again. Okay, so something super sweet, not fruity?

• 32:43Speaker 02

  Uh, what's a fruity pie?

• 32:44Josh Clark?

  Like a cherry pie or apple pie?

• 32:46Speaker 02

  Hmm, I like a good apple crumble pie.

• 32:49Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah, I do too, but-

• 32:50Speaker 02

  But not like the one with the crisscross pastry on top.

• 32:54Josh Clark?

  I don't, I don't really discriminate against pie.

• 32:56Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 32:57Josh Clark?

  I tend more toward the fruity section-

• 33:00Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 33:01Josh Clark?

  Of the pie spectrum. And I tend to think of pecan like right in the middle.

• 33:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:05Josh Clark?

  But then on the other end, you have like your creamy and chocolate mousse pies and stuff like that. I tend to be on the other side a little more.

• 33:11Speaker 02

  Or a good lemon pie, lemon ice box.

• 33:12Josh Clark?

  It's good stuff.

• 33:13Speaker 02

  What I don't get is the cheddar on the apple pie.

• 33:16Josh Clark?

  I've never gotten that either.

• 33:17Speaker 02

  I've never tried it, so maybe I should.

• 33:19Josh Clark?

  Those people are obviously crazy.

• 33:21Speaker 02

  I like sweet and savory together, so maybe I should give it a whirl.

• 33:24Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah?

• 33:25Speaker 02

  Do we have to start talking about this again?

• 33:27Josh Clark?

  Dip a french fry in a frosty and call it a day.

• 33:30Speaker 02

  Alright, so at that point that you described, that, you know, don't say all the zeros again. But at that, at that point, the universe was tiny, tiny, tiny and small and dense and hot. And the, the area of the universe spanned a region of about 3.9 by 10 to 34 inches. Everything.

• 33:50Josh Clark?

  And that, that area, right? 10 to the negative 33 centimeters. Again, the average diameter of an atom, or roughly something like that, is 10 to the negative 10.

• 34:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:02Josh Clark?

  This is that much smaller than an atom. And everything that's in the universe now was encapsulated in that tiny little thing, whatever it was.

• 34:12Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 34:13Josh Clark?

  And again, like surely astrophysicists and cosmologists, when they were coming up with these calculations, were like, "This can't be right."

• 34:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:22Josh Clark?

  And I guess over time, they were like, "It seems to be right."

• 34:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:26Josh Clark?

  Either we're all just totally off our rockers and really somebody forgot to carry a one and everybody forgot to carry a one? Or this is really how things started.

• 34:36Speaker 02

  I know.

• 34:36Josh Clark?

  And it's just mind boggling to think.

• 34:38Speaker 02

  All right, so in that very first, first, first, first moment, theorists think that those four primary forces that we mentioned are still hanging together.

• 34:48Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 34:49Speaker 02

  They're still united, and that matter and energy were inseparable at this point.

• 34:53Josh Clark?

  Which is another, don't feel bad if like you're sitting there going like, how is that possible? No one knows.

• 34:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:59Josh Clark?

  They just see, like, the calculations bear that out, is another way to put it, you know?

• 35:03Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 35:04Josh Clark?

  But that's how it was. Matter and energy were one and the same.

• 35:06Speaker 02

  And as things expanded, and we'll go into these in detail, we go through something called baryogenesis, particle cosmology, and then standard cosmology.

• 35:15Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 35:16Speaker 02

  And as this time passes, things become a little more easy to understand. And when I say easy to understand, I mean extremely difficult, but at least, at least your mind can wrap around it.

• 35:26Josh Clark?

  Yeah, start to, at least, right?

• 35:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:29Josh Clark?

  So, remember we started at t, which is the time after the creation of the universe? t equals 1 times 10 to the negative 43 seconds.

• 35:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:36Josh Clark?

  The next, the next big part where things start, and actually, in between the two, gravity separated from the, from the four fundamental forces.

• 35:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, just a little thing like that.

• 35:47Josh Clark?

  Right. But the next big one that came along was at 10 to the negative 36 seconds. And this is where baryogenesis happened. And around this time also, this is where the electro-weak, which is electromagnetic and weak force combined together.

• 36:03Speaker 02

  Right.

• 36:04Josh Clark?

  Separated from the strong magnetic force. And apparently here, at that 10 to the negative 36 power seconds, that was where inflation happened. That's where the expansion began.

• 36:16Speaker 02

  Right, and that's where we actually could begin to observe some kind of matter.

• 36:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and they think that what happened was a tremendous amount of matter and antimatter were created.

• 36:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:28Josh Clark?

  But that, and we did it, we, I don't remember a lot about the details, but remember we did a podcast on antimatter spacecraft?

• 36:36Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 36:37Josh Clark?

  And how amazing those were.

• 36:38Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 36:39Josh Clark?

  But antimatter and matter like to destroy each other, effectively cancel one another out.

• 36:45Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 36:46Josh Clark?

  But apparently, at the beginning of the universe... At the origin of the universe, it's suggested by this, that there was a slight imbalance in whatever makes matter and whatever makes antimatter. So that there was slightly more matter that was created than antimatter.

• 37:02Speaker 02

  Which is a good thing.

• 37:03Josh Clark?

  So that, right, so that that stuff survived.

• 37:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:05Josh Clark?

  Had the balance been the other direction, there'd be slightly more antimatter than matter now. And who knows what kind of loopy, bizarro universe that would have created.

• 37:13Speaker 02

  Seriously.

• 37:13Josh Clark?

  You know?

• 37:13Speaker 02

  Or if there would have been anything at all.

• 37:15Josh Clark?

  So all that matter that survived is the matter that we see in the universe now.

• 37:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:21Josh Clark?

  And that's a lot of matter. So imagine, since this is just a tiny fraction of the matter that was created and destroyed by the antimatter that was also created, how much matter and antimatter was created at 10 to the negative 36 seconds?

• 37:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:35Josh Clark?

  Through baryogenesis.

• 37:37Speaker 02

  Again, this is mind boggling.

• 37:38Josh Clark?

  And that was the result, Chuck, of energy and matter uncoupling as well, right?

• 37:44Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 37:44Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 37:45Speaker 02

  All right, and this is the point where we can actually start to, you know, we did one on the Large Hadron Collider. It's a particle accelerator, the biggest and best that we have on the Earth. And this is where you can actually use a particle accelerator to recreate and look at this stuff.

• 38:01Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 38:02Speaker 02

  So we can actually observe this at this point.

• 38:04Josh Clark?

  Yeah, we can smash things together and be like, kaboom! Look at that! Early universe. That's what they do at CERN.

• 38:14Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah?

• 38:15Josh Clark?

  Uh huh.

• 38:15Speaker 02

  All right. Well, people should listen to that one, too, by the way.

• 38:19Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 38:19Speaker 02

  That would be a good, like, primer.

• 38:21Josh Clark?

  That was the one where we wondered whether it was going to end the universe or not.

• 38:24Speaker 02

  Right, it did not.

• 38:25Josh Clark?

  Not yet.

• 38:26Speaker 02

  So at this point, there is still no light. Things are too dense, and it is still just a dark, dense area.

• 38:34Josh Clark?

  Right, exactly. And I think during the particle cosmology epoch, the...

• 38:41Josh Clark?

  Electromagnetic force and the weak force break off into separate forces.

• 38:45Speaker 02

  That's right, and we still can't, at this point, these subatomic particles still can't bond. They're there, they can form.

• 38:52Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 38:53Speaker 02

  But they can't hook up and party.

• 38:55Josh Clark?

  Right, exactly. That actually didn't start to take place until we reached the standard cosmology age, which is the age that I believe we're in now, right?

• 39:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, which started 0.01 seconds after the initial bang.

• 39:08Josh Clark?

  Right, one hundredth of a second. So we've gone through that many ages, and we haven't even mentioned them all.

• 39:13Speaker 02

  No.

• 39:14Josh Clark?

  In those, that, within that first second.

• 39:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's crazy.

• 39:18Josh Clark?

  It is crazy. So that standard cosmology, this is about where the astrophysicists and cosmologists say, "We understand it from about here on out."

• 39:26Speaker 02

  Right.

• 39:27Josh Clark?

  Everything else is a little shaky, but we've got some observational data that backs it up. But here is where neutrons and protons were formed. And a little after that, they started to be able to form nuclei through nucleosynthesis, right? And they, they would ultimately be the building blocks of atoms.

• 39:47Speaker 02

  Right. So at this point, things are still expanding and cooling at a rapid rate.

• 39:53Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:53Speaker 02

  And we can actually, there are no atoms yet, but like you said, it's, it's too hot at this point for electrons to complete that process.

• 40:02Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 40:03Speaker 02

  Still too hot in the hot tub.

• 40:04Josh Clark?

  Yeah. I mean, after 100 seconds, the universe had cooled to a temperature cooled after 100 seconds to 1.8 billion degrees Fahrenheit, or a billion degrees Celsius. That was how, how hot it was still after 100 seconds.

• 40:20Speaker 02

  Should we take another break here?

• 40:21Josh Clark?

  Let's.

• 40:22Speaker 02

  All right, let's do that, and we'll come back and, and explain the rest of it in great, easy-to-understand detail.

• 40:44Josh Clark?

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• 41:21Josh Clark?

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• 42:50Speaker 02

  All right, buddy. When we left off, things were expanding and cooling.

• 42:54Josh Clark?

  And they still are, actually.

• 42:55Speaker 02

  The end.

• 42:56Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 42:56Speaker 02

  Nope.

• 42:57Josh Clark?

  Good night, everyone.

• 42:58Speaker 02

  And everyone here is Neil deGrasse Tyson.

• 43:01Josh Clark?

  To take us home. So 56,000 years after the creation of the universe, or after the Big Bang,

• 43:11Josh Clark?

  we were at a temperature of 15,740 degrees Fahrenheit.

• 43:16Speaker 02

  Nice and cool.

• 43:16Josh Clark?

  Or 8,726 degrees Celsius, right? After another 324,000 years, so at 380,000 years after, it had cooled down to 4,000, just under 5,000 degrees Fahrenheit, and just under 3,000 degrees Celsius. And finally, here, atoms started to form, because protons and electrons could combine. And the other thing that happened, too, was the density had expanded out enough. The volume had increased is a better way to put it. And the temperature had cooled, so that suddenly, the universe was now transparent. We could see through it. Up to this point, 379,000 years, you still couldn't see through it.

• 43:59Josh Clark?

  It was too dense and too hot. And at about 380,000 years, it hits that point, and you can see it like we do now.

• 44:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, we finally have light. At that point, those cosmic microwave background radiation was, that we talked about earlier, it's locked in. I don't think we mentioned earlier where we're at now, temperature-wise, just to kind of put it in perspective. We currently are at roughly negative 454.8 degrees Fahrenheit, negative 270.4 degrees Celsius.

• 44:29Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's the temperature of space right now, right?

• 44:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:31Josh Clark?

  Yeah. So it's definitely cooled. Apparently, it's still cooling. Like, it's still not at absolute zero yet, which is the lowest temperature, or the lowest activity that atoms will move at ever.

• 44:43Speaker 02

  Right.

• 44:44Josh Clark?

  So it's still cooling, and still expanding.

• 44:47Speaker 02

  All right, so here's when things really heat up, or I guess really cool down. Sorry, bad pun. Strickland points out, for the next 100 million years or so, this is when the universe is really cooling, it's expanding. And then you have matter clusters together.

• 45:05Speaker 02

  Eventually forms gas, and this is the quick view, we'll dive into it. Those gases form stars, those stars cluster into galaxies, and those galaxies cluster together into solar systems.

• 45:16Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 45:17Speaker 02

  That's the overview.

• 45:18Josh Clark?

  And so what they think happened was, because this really doesn't make any sense, as a matter of fact, one of the criticisms of Big Bang theories, that it violates the law of entropy, that organizations become more disordered and chaotic over time.

• 45:31Speaker 02

  Right.

• 45:31Josh Clark?

  And the idea that planets and galaxies and things formed.

• 45:34Speaker 02

  It seemed like it became more orderly.

• 45:36Josh Clark?

  That's the opposite, right, exactly. And so they've really kind of looked into how anything would have formed at all, and what they think happened was that back in, say, the 10 to the negative 43 second era.

• 45:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:50Josh Clark?

  There were quantum fluctuations, little vacuum energy fluctuations, within this universe, this tiny little universe. And that as the universe expanded very quickly, those fluctuations grew tremendously in size. And the vacuum energy in the cosmic microwave background, those little fluctuations that are on there.

• 46:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:13Josh Clark?

  Were just different enough from the other spots in the universe, that they had slightly more density, and thus exerted slightly more gravitational pull than other areas. And so more matter started to attract around them, and they started to form stars, and the stars started to form galaxies, and planets started to form around them, and all of a sudden, what had just started out as little vacuum energy, became ultimately universal hotspots where you could find matter clustered together, which explains why so much of it is deep, of deep space is just void.

• 46:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:50Josh Clark?

  And why some of it has stuff, apparently it all began with these little tiny quantum fluctuations, way back trillions of a trillions of a second after the universe was created.

• 47:01Speaker 02

  So like a really cool dude at a, at a party the size of all humankind. And he's so cool that people start hanging out with him. And that his party grows a little bigger.

• 47:10Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 47:10Speaker 02

  Is that a good way to describe it?

• 47:12Josh Clark?

  I think that's, that's better than anybody could ever hope to.

• 47:15Speaker 02

  So it's what, so it's an attraction, basically, that drew things together ever so slightly enough.

• 47:21Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 47:21Speaker 02

  To form larger bodies and then larger bodies.

• 47:23Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And the reason why they think this happened is because of the, these tiny little fluctuations, little, little details in these little, this little universe.

• 47:33Josh Clark?

  Grow bigger over time, right? Especially if you look at this inflation growing as a process of time. Rather than just like volume expansion. It's also.

• 47:44Speaker 02

  Right.

• 47:44Josh Clark?

  Time is, is a dimension to it, right?

• 47:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:47Josh Clark?

  So it, it makes total sense. In that just these little things would get bigger as the universe itself got bigger too.

• 47:54Speaker 02

  Well, does that mean that the universe, being coy here, does that mean the universe will ever expand for all of time infinitely?

• 48:02Josh Clark?

  So I mean, you're talking about like that debate, right?

• 48:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:05Josh Clark?

  Yeah, there's a whole debate over whether or not it's ever going to stop. And all of it comes down to how much matters in the universe. Which we don't quite know yet.

• 48:14Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 48:14Josh Clark?

  When they calculate the matter we do know about. They realize that there's actually some that you can't account for, and that's dark matter. Because we know that there's something that's making stars behave differently, or there's clearly some matter that we can't detect that's out there.

• 48:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:30Josh Clark?

  So we can't account for all the matter in the universe. So we don't know how much matters in the universe.

• 48:34Speaker 02

  Right. But the idea is if there's enough, then that gravity will reverse and things will start to contract again, right?

• 48:40Josh Clark?

  Right. Because gravity is this force that attracts matter to other matter.

• 48:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:45Josh Clark?

  And yeah, eventually if there's enough matter, it'll, it'll, it'll counteract that expansive force that came out of it. And then yeah, probably will either stop is one school of thought.

• 48:56Speaker 02

  Right.

• 48:56Josh Clark?

  Or the universe will contract and form what's called the big crunch.

• 49:01Speaker 02

  Right.

• 49:01Josh Clark?

  And some people say that's what our universe is. It's just the cycle of expansion and contraction that takes place over many billions of years. But we're just one part of a cycle that is, is ongoing perhaps forever.

• 49:16Speaker 02

  It makes it sound, when we talk about it like that, it makes it sound like the universe is just breathing.

• 49:21Josh Clark?

  It does, doesn't it?

• 49:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:22Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 49:23Speaker 02

  In a creepy way.

• 49:25Josh Clark?

  And Chuck, that has to do also, the reason why they don't know

• 49:30Josh Clark?

  if it's gonna keep expanding or contracting, they don't know if it's what's called a closed universe with positive curvature or one with negative curvature, right? And it also has to do with the, the shape of space to a certain degree. And Strickland also wrote a really top-notch article called, "Does Space Have a Shape?"

• 49:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's a good one.

• 49:49Josh Clark?

  It really is. And something from studying this that they figured out is that really, it doesn't seem like it has a positive or a negative curvature. It seems flat. It seems like it has a zero curvature.

• 50:03Speaker 02

  Right.

• 50:04Josh Clark?

  And this is what's called the flat problem of the Big Bang Theory. Why should it be flat? That doesn't make any sense because if you look at the spectrum between positive curvature and negative curvature, there's a lot of places on that spectrum where the universe could fall one way or the other. But it's so close to the middle that astrophysicists and cosmologists have no idea if it's positive or negative in its curvature.

• 50:29Speaker 02

  Right.

• 50:29Josh Clark?

  And they've started to wonder like, why should we be almost exactly in the middle? That doesn't make any sense.

• 50:36Speaker 02

  Right.

• 50:36Josh Clark?

  It would suggest that the early universe was so finely tuned that we're only slightly off of center.

• 50:46Speaker 02

  Right.

• 50:46Josh Clark?

  So it would have had to have started almost completely at center. Because remember, small fluctuations grow bigger and bigger over time and on a larger scale. So since we're still so close to center right now, with the universe as big as it is,

• 51:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:00Josh Clark?

  it would have had to have been basically on top of exactly in the middle between a closed and, or a negative and a positive curvature

• 51:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:07Josh Clark?

  at the very beginning of it, which is kind of puzzling in and of itself.

• 51:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:12Josh Clark?

  That's like, well, that indicates some sort of weird fine tuning.

• 51:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:15Josh Clark?

  So does that mean that the astrophysicists are off a little bit in their, their own fine tuning of the Big Bang Theory and inflation? Or what? Who knows? Or is there a little kid with a lighter who set the snake off?

• 51:28Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 51:29Josh Clark?

  And the snake was very well manufactured.

• 51:31Speaker 02

  Uh, well, that's just one thing that we can't quite explain. We talked earlier about the fact that at the very beginning, that the Big Bang Theory wasn't meant to address a lot of questions. One of which is, that we touched on was what happened before the Big Bang, and we just don't know.

• 51:49Josh Clark?

  It doesn't even try. It doesn't. It can't right now.

• 51:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, that like trying to explain time before timing existed is futile.

• 51:58Josh Clark?

  Right, because you get into stuff that I just suggested, which is basically amounts to intelligent design or whatever, and there's that's that's beyond science. Like, science isn't equipped to say, oh, well, what about this? Or what about that? And I tried really hard to get Neil deGrasse Tyson to say something, and he was not going to bite.

• 52:16Speaker 02

  Well, no, and smartly, you know, I think a scientist looks at the observational data and extrapolates from there and not, and I'm sure, like I said, I'm sure, and I think even said in the interview, that sure, people like to talk about these things.

• 52:28Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 52:29Speaker 02

  But it's not like, you know, hard science.

• 52:32Josh Clark?

  Right. And and also to answer that flat problem that I brought up.

• 52:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:36Josh Clark?

  Apparently, inflation theory does answer it, it does satisfy it by saying the universe appears flat to us because we're looking at it strictly on a very local level, even though we're looking at ninety ninety billion light years or something like that.

• 52:51Speaker 02

  Right.

• 52:52Josh Clark?

  The it it it's really just a very small segment of something. So if you take a balloon and you blow it up.

• 53:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:01Josh Clark?

  It's still curved, but the if you're just looking at just a pinpoint segment of it, it's going to appear flat to everybody looking at it from just that tiny perspective. So it's basically.

• 53:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, that makes sense.

• 53:12Josh Clark?

  Perspective that we're looking at the universe right now makes it seem like it's flat, but it's really actually curved one way or the other.

• 53:18Speaker 02

  Right.

• 53:19Josh Clark?

  That's the answer to that.

• 53:20Speaker 02

  Uh, well, should we talk about some of the problems with the Big Bang Theory?

• 53:24Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 53:24Speaker 02

  Uh, there are criticisms, and there will continue to be. One was that is that it violates the first law of thermodynamics, that you can't create or destroy matter or energy. And proponents will say that that's unwarranted for a couple of reasons. One is it, like we already said, it doesn't address the creation of the universe. It was never meant to, but just how it evolved or inflated over the years, uh, over the years, over the sixty or seventy years.

• 53:51Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 53:52Speaker 02

  Uh, and another reason is, kind of like we said earlier, is that the further back you go, the rules don't apply. So maybe the law of thermodynamics is just completely moot.

• 54:02Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 54:02Speaker 02

  When you go back that far.

• 54:03Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 54:04Speaker 02

  Like, it didn't come into being until later.

• 54:06Josh Clark?

  Yeah, if matter and energy are like one in the same, I can imagine that some of our current laws don't necessarily apply.

• 54:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, probably a lot of them.

• 54:15Josh Clark?

  Right. And then, one of the other things too is that, that inflation that supposedly happened when the strong nuclear force decoupled from the electroweak force.

• 54:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:28Josh Clark?

  And the universe suddenly expanded, you know, within that one second, it just kept growing and growing and growing.

• 54:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:34Josh Clark?

  Way faster than the speed of light.

• 54:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:36Josh Clark?

  And a lot of people are like, "Wrong, nothing can go faster than the speed of light."

• 54:42Speaker 02

  Well, there was no light.

• 54:43Josh Clark?

  Well, nothing you could see, yeah, there were definitely photons, but they, they had the, the proponents of Big Bang have the same answer. They say, "Well, again dude, you're talking general relativity, this, this, that wouldn't have applied at all."

• 54:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, the answer is kind of consistently, "Don't even come at me with that."

• 55:00Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 55:00Speaker 02

  Your laws.

• 55:01Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 55:03Speaker 02

  Uh, should we talk about, should we finish with a few other, uh, alternative explanations?

• 55:08Josh Clark?

  Yeah, um, like we said, there are alternative models, right? One of them is that same one that Einstein was a proponent of, the steady state model, that it is not actually expanding. Um, and the, apparently, this, this is hard for me to wrap my mind around, the people who say that it's not expanding, explain away expansion by saying that matter's created as, um, in proportion to the original density of the universe.

• 55:40Speaker 02

  Right.

• 55:41Josh Clark?

  So maybe the universe is expanding some and more, more matter has to, um, be created to keep the same density. So I think what they're saying is-

• 55:49Speaker 02

  I think that's what it means, yeah.

• 55:49Josh Clark?

  The universe has been at the same density all the time.

• 55:52Speaker 02

  Right.

• 55:52Josh Clark?

  And sure, it's expanding, but it's also creating more matter.

• 55:55Speaker 02

  Right.

• 55:55Josh Clark?

  So-

• 55:56Speaker 02

  Which holds it static.

• 55:57Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 55:58Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 55:58Josh Clark?

  Guess so.

• 55:59Speaker 02

  Uh, the Echpyrotic, Epirotic?

• 56:06Josh Clark?

  I know, those two letters should not be-

• 56:08Speaker 02

  How do you say it?

• 56:08Josh Clark?

  Epirotic?

• 56:09Speaker 02

  Epirotic model?

• 56:10Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I think that's it.

• 56:11Speaker 02

  Man, that's just, we're the worst.

• 56:15Speaker 02

  That suggests the universe is a result of a collision of, well, that's the one you brought up earlier, of two three-dimensional worlds and that there is some hidden fourth dimension out there.

• 56:26Josh Clark?

  Well, that's part of, the fourth dimension is part of like, standard astrophysics and cosmology, but this was like, this thing says our universe came out of two universes colliding

• 56:40Speaker 02

  Right.

• 56:41Josh Clark?

  in the fourth dimension, which, that defies me a little bit, but, but the idea that there are four dimensions and one of them is time is definitely a part of like, standard stuff.

• 56:52Speaker 02

  Alright.

• 56:53Josh Clark?

  Still hard to think of.

• 56:54Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 56:55Josh Clark?

  And then plasma cosmology, I like that one a lot, because it's just totally different from the way we think of the universe. It seeks to describe it based on its, basically, its electrical charge state, you know?

• 57:08Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 57:09Josh Clark?

  Rather than like, the temperature of it, or the density, or anything like that. It's more involved in like, the plasma aspects of it, because you know, plasma is ionized gas.

• 57:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:20Josh Clark?

  And it's like a fourth state of matter, and plasma cosmology looks at it through that lens, which is basically totally alien to everything we've just talked about, from what I can gather.

• 57:29Speaker 02

  Did you just say there's totally aliens out there?

• 57:31Josh Clark?

  There's aliens out there, and the universe was started by a little kid with a lighter.

• 57:36Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 57:37Josh Clark?

  That's my stand. Well, if you like this, then stick around, because, right now Chuck, we have an interview with Neil deGrasse Tyson, we weren't joking.

• 57:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, great job on that one too, buddy.

• 57:49Josh Clark?

  Thanks, man, we missed you. He was like, where's Chuck?

• 57:51Speaker 02

  No, he didn't.

• 57:52Josh Clark?

  Yes, he did.

• 57:53Speaker 04

  Well, how you guys doing?

• 57:55Josh Clark?

  Good, how are you doing?

• 57:57Speaker 04

  Are you assuming I know how stuff works?

• 57:59Josh Clark?

  I have an inkling that you may have a clue.

• 58:02Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 58:03Josh Clark?

  So, I guess my first question is then, how do you, specifically, how do you think of the universe, when you think of the universe as a whole, like, do you think of it as something like a speck of dust underneath a giant fingernail, or is it part of a branching multiverse, or is it a bubble that kind of pushes up against other bubbles? Like, what is the universe when you think of it?

• 58:24Speaker 04

  I don't- Think, I think of the universe in a fundamentally different way from that of my colleagues. You, what you wanna do is separate the things we have data and observations to support. And the things that live and thrive on the frontier of theorizing about what the universe was, is, or will one day be, or what larger system it could be a part of. So, if you live in the realm of data, then we are in an expanding universe. And it's been expanding for nearly fourteen billion years. And it was smaller in the past and hot in the past, and it's getting larger and cooler by the minute.

• 59:05Speaker 04

  And we exist on this planet we call Earth, born four point six billion years ago, with the rest of the solar system, in some undis- undistinguished part of an undistinguished galaxy we call the Milky Way. And this, this, this scenario, this picture, was very hard-earned. And it's, it's no more than about eighty or ninety years old in total.

• 59:33Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 59:34Speaker 04

  Edwin Hubble, the man, in this particular usage of the word.

• 59:38Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 59:39Speaker 04

  Uh, Edwin Hubble, in the nineteen twenties, so about ninety years ago, nineteen twenty-six, discovered that there are other island universes, if you will. Not the way we might think of that term today, but back then, there were these spiral fuzzy things in the night sky, imagined to be just spiral fuzzy things in the Milky Way. He would show that those spiral fuzzy things are not in the Milky Way, they are entire other Milky Ways.

• 1:00:05Josh Clark?

  Hmm.

• 1:00:05Speaker 04

  Other galaxies. And that was a profound expanding, uh, expansion of our worldview, if you would. And then just three years after that, he would show that these spiral fuzzy things are rapidly moving away from us. Coupled with Einstein's general theory of relativity, we would learn that it's not just galaxies spreading apart within a pre-existing space, it is the fabric of the space and time itself that's expanding. All of this is supported by data. So, if you have discomfort. Thinking that the universe had a beginning and that we will expand forever, then too bad. That's just what the universe says.

• 1:00:46Speaker 04

  And the universe, I've said this before, the universe is under no obligation to make sense to you. Especially when what we learn of the universe comes to us from methods and tools that completely transcend our native inborn biological senses. Which in fact is the great ascent of science.

• 1:01:04Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 1:01:05Speaker 04

  What are all the ways we can decode the operations of nature without having to rely on the limits that our biological senses force us to occupy.

• 1:01:18Josh Clark?

  So when science is furthered, you know, decades down the road, and the vision we have or the view we have of the universe we live in is magnified by orders of magnitude from what we're looking at through right now. What do you suspect, what shape do you suspect it's going to take? Do you have suspicions? And if, I mean, if you don't, how do you keep yourself from making that leap? Like, yes, of course, this is what it's going to be. This is what we're really living in.

• 1:01:48Speaker 04

  Well, we all have biases and, let me not call them biases, let's say, we all have longings for how we think or want the universe to be. And if you begin to believe your longings too strongly, then you could, you might miss some realities that don't fit your expectations and someone else will catch them and make the discovery. So it's okay to lean in one direction or another, but don't do so while being blind to what else could be true. In spite of how you think it might be. So now the scenario I gave you is sort of, is very well established in terms of observations and data.

• 1:02:33Speaker 04

  Data and basically a century of thinking about and observing the universe and posing questions and answering them. So beyond that, we can ask. Um, is there a multiverse, right? This seems to come naturally out of certain thinking about the behavior of the universe when you try to bring together quantum physics and Einstein's general relativity. There are, there are good arguments to suggest that we could be in a multiverse, and it's not obvious, at least to me, how one would test that just yet.

• 1:03:11Speaker 04

  And so, but the theories of the universe that point to a multiverse are themselves well-tested. So, this is what gives you the confidence that maybe, maybe our multiverse folks are on to something. And there are other frontiers. For example, the quantum physics, which is the theory of the small, and general relativity, the theory of the large, they work perfectly well in their own regimes. General relativity describing the large-scale universe, quantum physics describing with very

• 1:03:51Speaker 04

  high precision, atoms, molecules, nuclei, particles, this sort of thing. But in the early universe, when the entire universe was the size of an atom, then we might suppose that quantum forces override whatever was going on with general relativity, because now the entire universe is of the size that quantum laws significantly manifest. And so, and right now, we do not have a good way to merge those two theories. And this, we got top people working on it. Sure. So, these are collectively the string theorists and others in that realm, who are thinking long and hard about, is there a third theory that needs to be introduced that will

• 1:04:35Speaker 04

  enclose quantum physics and general relativity into a deeper, broader understanding of what's going on, or will quantum physics absorb general relativity? I don't know that people know just yet. And it involves very high levels of math, and higher dimensions, and this sort of thing. And some people have criticized string theory for not really being a legitimate theory, because you can't test it. Right. Uh, in any traditional way. But it's the only game in town, so, and they're not very expensive, you know? You give them a pencil and a pad, and throw in a laptop, and a string theorist is in business. So, I, I, I- Let them go as far as they can take it.

• 1:05:16Josh Clark?

  So it does seem like there is either, like you said, quantum physics may be the answer to all this. We just don't fully understand that field yet enough to get back to the moment of the Big Bang or what happened before the Big Bang. But it could also be, from what I've seen, the unified field theory that gets us back to that point. But either way, to get to a point where we go further beyond our current understanding, further back in time in the Big Bang, including before the Big Bang of what was before, it seems like it's going to take a vast leap forward. Do you think that leap is going to come from

• 1:05:59Josh Clark?

  a genius that hasn't been born yet, or has been born but hasn't been educated and entered the field yet? Is that how it's going to happen? Is it going to happen from, you know, this person combining this work with this work and that work and this work, and then suddenly the pieces are going to fall together in that sense?

• 1:06:17Speaker 04

  That's a great question that also has a philosophical dimension to it.

• 1:06:22Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 1:06:22Speaker 04

  Such that, in modern times, great leaps in science, do they happen by the lone genius burning the candle at midnight, coming up with a eureka moment? Or do they come about because you have huge, expensive, highly collaborative scientific projects, such as LIGO discovering gravitational waves?

• 1:06:43Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 1:06:44Speaker 04

  Such as the Next Generation Space Telescope. It's called the James Webb Space Telescope, not yet launched. But that will enable us to see galaxies being born in the early universe, as well as a host of other frontier observations that were not possible with previous telescopes. Well, that telescope had to be designed by whole teams of people with questions that they had in mind that they want answered by the new data. So I'm not convinced...

• 1:07:17Speaker 04

  That we're just waiting for a new smart person to come along and have it all make sense. I think we're waiting for someone to obtain new data that we've never seen before that then force us into new ideas and understandings of the universe. Maybe there's some new theory that, maybe, I'm not discounting it, but I can tell you is we're in an era, look at the Higgs boson for example, that required the Large Hadron Collider and thousands of scientists and tens of thousands of engineers who built the thing in the first place. So, we're kind of in a collaborative era right now.

• 1:07:58Speaker 04

  And so if I were a betting man, I would say that the great discoveries to come will come about from huge collaborations, possibly even international collaborations. Now, that doesn't remove the question as to whether there is an Einstein walking among us who happened to have been born into poverty in a developing country, and then we will never know. Well, that would be one of the great tragedies of modern civilization. So, I as an educator feel very strongly about what kind of access people of the world should have to knowledge, to learning, to health, to, you know, a person should be able to

• 1:08:40Speaker 04

  live a day and not have the entire day be preoccupied about whether you have food or whether or not you're going to die from a disease that your neighbor just died of. So, this is a, so I think we should be able to measure our state of our civilization by the extent to which we are in the position to discover another Einstein rising up from the midst. And that's, so that's one way to get an Einstein. Another one is to wait around until one is born into the right circumstances.

• 1:09:15Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 1:09:16Speaker 04

  But I'd rather, you know, we've got seven billion people on Earth. Somebody in there's got to be badass enough to help us out.

• 1:09:21Josh Clark?

  So, you, I mean, you brought up your role as an educator and you're a world-class science popularizer and explainer. What is it that got you into science as a kid?

• 1:09:33Speaker 04

  I was nine years old and it was a first visit to the Hayden Planetarium, right here in New York.

• 1:09:38Josh Clark?

  Oh, it's pretty fast.

• 1:09:39Speaker 04

  My local planetarium. I think most big cities have planetariums. Even medium-sized cities will have a planetarium. And my family, my parents took my brother, my sister, and me to all the cultural institutions of the city every weekend. So, one weekend it was the Natural History Museum, another it was the zoo, another it was the aquarium. We even went to other things that sort of talented grownups did, like we'd go to a baseball game, or the opera, or the theater. And that exposure enabled the three of us to see what is possible beyond the traditional, "you wanna be a doctor, lawyer, Indian chief."

• 1:10:19Speaker 04

  You know, the three traditional options that you're given as a six-year-old or a seven-year-old. And so, out of that arose my interest in the universe. That really got cemented by the time I was 11, I knew that, in fact, I was so convinced that I wanted to do astrophysics, that I began to question whether or not it was, in fact, the universe that chose me.

• 1:10:42Josh Clark?

  Hmm, that's really cool. Well, thank you very much, Dr. Tyson, we appreciate you joining us. This was, like, you just took our Big Bang episode and moved it along light years, so thank you.

• 1:10:54Speaker 04

  Oh, okay.

• 1:10:55Josh Clark?

  Thank you.

• 1:10:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, light years not actually very far in the scale of the universe, so I'd feel better if I'd taken it along billions.

• 1:11:02Josh Clark?

  How about a parsec or something?

• 1:11:04Speaker 04

  A parsec is only 3.26 light years, so that still won't even...

• 1:11:08Josh Clark?

  All right, all right.

• 1:11:10Speaker 04

  You know, a parsec is not even far enough away to get to the nearest star to the sun.

• 1:11:16Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 1:11:17Speaker 04

  So, you're just in the wrong zone there.

• 1:11:18Josh Clark?

  Okay, well then, how about billions of parsecs?

• 1:11:22Speaker 04

  Nice.

• 1:11:23Josh Clark?

  Okay. Thank you very much. What a guy, huh?

• 1:11:26Speaker 02

  Great job.

• 1:11:27Josh Clark?

  Yeah?

• 1:11:28Speaker 02

  He was, man, he's just such a cool customer, that's why he is where he is now.

• 1:11:32Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and if you wanna hang out with him, head on over to the Hayden Planetarium, I'm sure he'd be happy to see you.

• 1:11:37Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:11:38Josh Clark?

  You can see him on tour, you can see him with StarTalk Live, he's got a podcast, for those of you who don't know, with our pal Eugene Merman.

• 1:11:46Speaker 02

  He was on our TV show even.

• 1:11:49Josh Clark?

  He was. I didn't get a chance to ask him if he remembered that or not.

• 1:11:52Speaker 02

  I'm sure he didn't.

• 1:11:53Josh Clark?

  That's why I didn't get a chance.

• 1:11:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. That just would have been embarrassing.

• 1:11:57Josh Clark?

  Well, if you want to know more about the Big Bang, type those words into the search bar at HowStuffWorks.com and it'll bring up some great stuff. And since I said "search bar," it's time for listener mail.

• 1:12:09Speaker 02

  I'm going to call this, "Is Russia European?"

• 1:12:13Josh Clark?

  Nice.

• 1:12:13Speaker 02

  Remember that debate?

• 1:12:15Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 1:12:15Speaker 02

  Well, it wasn't so much a debate. We just kind of wondered.

• 1:12:18Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 1:12:19Speaker 02

  In the continents episode. "Hey, guys, thanks for cracking me up with the show. It's astonishing how many film references you can fit into a geography lesson. Yes, Russia is definitely a European country." Exclamation point. "Historically, it's always been considered a part of Europe. For example, it was named as one of the six major European countries in World War I, and the Tsar was closely related to other royalty in Europe. This is very different from China or India. Always much more distant and mysterious to the east. Also consider that maps are very deceptive. Over 75% of Russia's population is on the European side, including every major city from Moscow to St. Petersburg."

• 1:12:57Josh Clark?

  From Milan to Minsk.

• 1:12:58Speaker 02

  I knew you were going to say that. Very nice. I would have been so disappointed, had you not.

• 1:13:04Speaker 02

  "Most of the land you see to the east is empty and largely uninhabitable, only there to look pretty on a map." Well, I don't know about that, but...

• 1:13:13Josh Clark?

  That's what the little kid with the lighter put it there for.

• 1:13:16Speaker 02

  So cheers. That is from Timothy, and that was one heck of a Seinfeld reference.

• 1:13:21Josh Clark?

  Timothy or Timothy? Is he Russian?

• 1:13:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, good point.

• 1:13:25Josh Clark?

  Yeah? It's Timothy Moscow, who just wrote, using his pseudonym, Timothy.

• 1:13:31Speaker 02

  Milan to Minsk.

• 1:13:33Josh Clark?

  If you want to get in touch with me and Chuck and Jerry, you can tweet to us at @SYSKPodcast. You can join us on Facebook.com/StuffYouShouldKnow, and you can send us an email to [email protected]. And as always, join us at our home on the web, stuffyoushouldknow.com.

• 1:14:05Josh Clark?

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• 1:14:38Speaker 02

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