SYSK Tribute: Why does everyone love Dolly Parton?

Today we dive in to celebrate the international treasure that is Dolly Parton. Why is she nearly universally loved? Listen in to find out. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:04Josh Clark?

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• 1:40Speaker 02

  Hey, everybody. Chuck here on a Wednesday for an intro for a very special release because yesterday we learned that music icon and country music legend and philanthropist and just all around amazing person, Dolly Parton passed away after a short battle with cancer. And a few years ago in April of 2023, we recorded this episode. Why does everyone love Dolly Parton? And, you know, I think that title, Josh came up with that title and it really hits it on the head. She was a beloved person that seems to have crossed different musical genres, of course, and, you know, political boundaries.

• 2:23Speaker 02

  And she was just one of those people that kind of everyone seemed to be united in agreement that Dolly Parton is and was an amazing human being.

• 2:35Speaker 02

  That's the kind of thing we detail in this episode and we try to get to the heart of why she's so beloved. And I think for me, Dolly was just someone who seemed like her guiding principles were kindness and, and love and joy. And that's seems to be what led her to do just about everything in her career and every decision she made and people who she worked with and, you know, nonprofits she decided to get involved with and her, certainly her philanthropic efforts and everything that she gave to the world, it seems like she led with her heart first. And that's just kind of a rare trait these days.

• 3:18Speaker 02

  So Dolly was certainly a rare breed and just an amazing woman, somebody who I think we can all agree is should be revered and looked up to. And the world is a little dimmer today without her light shining. So here we are today, the day after she passed, releasing this special episode, hoping everyone can, can give it a listen as we pay tribute to the great Dolly Parton with our episode from 2023, Why Does Everyone Love Dolly Parton?

• 3:57Speaker 00

  Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio.

• 4:07Josh Clark?

  Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too. And today we're going to make some joyful noise together here on Stuff You Should Know.

• 4:17Speaker 02

  That's right. I just poured myself a cup of ambition.

• 4:20Josh Clark?

  Uh huh. I had a few of those this morning.

• 4:24Speaker 02

  Livia helped us with this one and, you know, we've remarked about how Livia is getting great at titling the articles, even though she doesn't even have to.

• 4:32Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 4:33Speaker 02

  She does it because she's creative and talented. And her title for this is Why Does Everyone Love Dolly Parton?

• 4:41Speaker 02

  And we're going to explain that, but I think the easiest thing to say is since the 1970s, this is a woman who has basically just put goodness into the world at every turn.

• 4:55Josh Clark?

  Yeah, for sure. I was reading an interview with her in Rolling Stone from 1980, like nine to five had just come out. And it, you might as well have told me it was from 2023.

• 5:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:07Josh Clark?

  She just, she's been the same way this whole time.

• 5:09Speaker 02

  It's great.

• 5:10Josh Clark?

  Like she, she doesn't like get into any political stuff. She said, I'm not political. I won't talk about politics. She doesn't, she leaves hot button issues alone, but if it means something to her, it's really meaningful, she'll, she'll come out on, you know, in favor of it, endorsing it, but she doesn't put anything down. She might support something, but she's not going to put anything down publicly.

• 5:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. So the other kind of funny thing about this one from Livia is she always includes her sources and she may have broken her own source record.

• 5:40Josh Clark?

  Yeah, there's a lot.

• 5:41Speaker 02

  Oh, boy. There were probably a hundred sources, but we did want to mention one in particular because I listened to this from Jad Abumrad, the great Jad Abumrad of Radiolab fame, like four years ago, put out the wonderful series, Dolly Parton's America.

• 5:56Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 5:57Speaker 02

  And Livia binged it and I listened to it back then. And back then I was like, oh, man, I want to do an episode on Dolly Parton, but it's like Jad did it, like he covered it so well, like what's the point kind of thing?

• 6:08Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 6:09Speaker 02

  Uh, but now four years on, I was like, well, we can give it the Stuff You Should Know treatment, which is to say not as, not as deep a dive, but it's a great series. If you want to learn more about Dolly Parton, then check out Dolly Parton's America.

• 6:24Josh Clark?

  Very nice. And then just to button up Chuck, we were trying to answer that question, why does everybody love Dolly? I, I came up with another hypothesis too.

• 6:34Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 6:35Josh Clark?

  And it's that, you know, when, when somebody is like, they can be anything anybody wants them to be, like they, they're interpretable from all different angles. So everybody just assumes they're like them. Dolly is not like that. She is her own person who can't be pigeonholed into one box or another, right? But she's likable from all sides.

• 7:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. Like find someone that's going to talk smack about Dolly Parton. And then you and I are going to have a discussion in the parking lot with that guy.

• 7:12Josh Clark?

  It's a sad state of affairs though, dude, because there's think pieces all over the internet about how it's just amazing that everybody doesn't hate Dolly Parton. And it's like, good God, like this is what we've come to. Like everybody hates everybody casually. So, I mean, how has she escaped it so long? And it's just like such a sad state of affairs that that's normalized by even writing pieces like that, but they're out there for sure. But the upshot of it is people are amazed that people don't hate Dolly Parton. And it's true. People don't hate Dolly Parton.

• 7:41Speaker 02

  Yeah. And she's, she's someone that is so, I think, kind of universally beloved and internationally beloved that, as you'll see later in this episode, there, she's been studied by anthropologists and sociologists.

• 7:54Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 7:55Speaker 02

  Which is pretty amazing. Uh, and so let's, let's start at the beginning, shall we?

• 8:00Josh Clark?

  Wait, hold on, one more thing.

• 8:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. More praise.

• 8:03Josh Clark?

  The other thing about her, I think that's so amazing and so remarkable is that she, this is the reason why everybody's just so fascinated with her right now. She's maybe the one person who is straddling both sides of the political and social divide, as wide as it is in the United States today, and is not, is not like hanging on by her fingernails. She's like, I got a foot here and I'm not lying about it. Got a foot here, I'm not lying about that either. I'm not.

• 8:32Speaker 02

  Right.

• 8:32Josh Clark?

  I'm not trying to fool either side. This is, this is what I'm into and, and, you know, I like both of you, basically.

• 8:39Speaker 02

  It's almost like being a genuine human who 100% stays true to who they are is something we should all aspire to.

• 8:46Josh Clark?

  Sure. But it also shows, she shows that that's such a rarity in this world that, that you can be globally beloved by just doing that and also making like a ton of really great music too.

• 8:57Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, I mean, come on. We're going to talk about all this stuff. But can we go back to the beginning now?

• 9:03Josh Clark?

  Yeah, yeah, sorry.

• 9:04Speaker 02

  Okay. Uh, hey, never apologize about singing the praises of Dolly Parton.

• 9:08Josh Clark?

  That's a great rule of thumb.

• 9:10Speaker 02

  Stuff you should know motto. Uh, and I just can't wait till we get to the Dollywood stuff because you, you've been and I have not. Um, all right. So she was born, uh, Dolly Rebecca Parton, uh, in 1946 in January, uh, 19th of 1946. In rural Tennessee, uh, how do you pronounce it? Is it Sevier County?

• 9:29Josh Clark?

  I think it's severe.

• 9:30Speaker 02

  Oh, it's, it's just severe.

• 9:32Josh Clark?

  I'm almost positive it's severe.

• 9:35Speaker 02

  Okay. S E V I E R. And see immediately this is, uh, I'm sure Jad's episode pronounced it perfectly.

• 9:42Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 9:42Speaker 02

  Right off the bat. I don't remember.

• 9:43Josh Clark?

  Threw his face into his palm like these guys.

• 9:47Speaker 02

  Uh, but she was born to a big family of 12 kids and it's kind of fun to look up photos of, uh, Dolly and all her siblings. Because, you know, a few of her sisters look a lot like her. Um, all her brothers look like, you know, they should be like shooting pool down at the pool hall.

• 10:04Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 10:05Speaker 02

  You know, all very just sort of genuine article, Smoky Mountain, Tennessee foothills people.

• 10:10Josh Clark?

  Yeah, for sure. And there were 12 of them, did you say?

• 10:13Speaker 02

  12 sibs, including her.

• 10:15Josh Clark?

  And she was.

• 10:15Speaker 02

  The fourth.

• 10:16Josh Clark?

  Yeah, the fourth of 12 and all 14 people in her family lived in a two-room cabin. And I've seen a replica of this cabin and it is no joke, a two-room cabin and 14 people lived in it in the Smoky Mountains.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  You mean two bedrooms with an office, right?

• 10:36Josh Clark?

  I mean two rooms, my friend, with the outhouse, no running water, no electricity. Like she grew up as, as Smoky Mountain, as a Smoky Mountain person can grow up. Like even people in other parts of Tennessee are like, wow.

• 10:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:52Josh Clark?

  But she said she had a great childhood running around, just being outside and, and because she was the fourth of 12, she wasn't particularly like, paid attention to, so she could just kind of go off and do her own thing.

• 11:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I get the idea that they were semi-feral sort of mountain kids. Uh, her granddad was a Pentecostal minister, very fiery and brimstoney. And she still, you know, mentions God a lot. Um, I get the sense that she's a little less overtly religious, but spirituality is still very much a, a mainstay in her life.

• 11:24Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I think it's more of a personal relationship between her and God.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, which is not supposed to be.

• 11:29Josh Clark?

  So she really lucked out because she had an uncle named Bill Owens, who was a musician, a songwriter, who noticed that she wanted to get into music from a very young age. And was maybe the only person in her entire life, or her early life, that, that noticed and then nurtured it. And she later said, when he died a few years back at his funeral, like she wouldn't be here today if it wasn't him. Like she owed him everything because he nurtured it in her, he encouraged her, he supported her when she got rejected. And he helped her break into the business. So Bill Owens was a huge influence in her life. But he noticed, like I said, from a very early age. I think she wrote her first song when she was five.

• 12:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, Little Tiny Tassel Top, uh, about her homemade corn husk doll. Uh, and she would pretend, you know, she would get a tobacco stick and a tin can and act like it was her microphone and mic stand. And she would sing for the chickens in her yard and had obviously a real talent from the beginning. Um, if you listen to her very first recording Puppy Love from 1959, it sounds like, you know, 13-year-old Dolly Parton, you know, you can hear Dolly in that young voice. Uh, and like I said, she was 13 and that was the same year that she made her very first appearance at the Grand Ole Opry, introduced by none other than Johnny Cash.

• 12:51Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Who was her first big crush. So it was even amazing, more amazing for.

• 12:56Speaker 02

  Unbelievable.

• 12:57Josh Clark?

  That her family didn't get to see it though, because Dolly Parton was on TV before her family had a TV at home.

• 13:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:03Josh Clark?

  Which is pretty cool. Um.

• 13:05Speaker 02

  Was it on TV back then?

• 13:07Josh Clark?

  I believe she, there was a TV appearance, yes.

• 13:09Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 13:10Josh Clark?

  Um, and if it wa, if that one wasn't the, the first, whenever it was, she was on TV first, her family still didn't have a TV back then.

• 13:17Speaker 02

  Gotcha.

• 13:18Josh Clark?

  So, um, thanks to, uh, Uncle Billy taking her around and banging on doors. She ended up making her, her debut on Mercury Records in 1962, which is nothing to sneeze at. But I get the impression that it wasn't like her, it wasn't like a, like a, okay, this is a serious recording contract. It's like, okay, let's, let's test this girl out. Back then they called any woman in country music a girl singer.

• 13:44Speaker 02

  Right.

• 13:44Josh Clark?

  So she was a bit of a novelty, not just because of her age, but because she was a, a woman as well. But she had her sights set on becoming a country music star. And so the day after she graduated high school, the day after she graduated high school, she got on a bus for Nashville and moved there.

• 14:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. Amazing. Uh, 1964, uh, and very soon after she moved there, she met a man that would become her husband. And, uh, a mainstay in her life to this day, who is remarkably hard to find stuff about. Uh, his name is Carl Dean. They met very famously at a laundromat when she was 18 and he was 21. Uh, married a couple of years later and I, I think a lot of people that don't know a lot about, uh, Dolly Parton, think she might be single or something, uh, because she never had kids, but she's been married to Carl Dean since 1966. And he just, he doesn't want to be in the limelight. He never did. He's her biggest fan and supporter.

• 14:42Speaker 02

  She's always said, you know, off the stage, but he, he just doesn't want any part of the limelight. And it's hard to even find a lot of pictures of this guy. There's a handful out there, but he started a, an asphalt laying business in the late seventies, still runs that business today.

• 14:58Josh Clark?

  Oh, really?

• 14:58Speaker 02

  Which is just amazing. And yeah, I read an article from a couple of years ago. She was like, you know, Carl and I, we like to run errands. She said, we go to the, the 24-hour stores, you know, in the middle of the night, like Walmart and places. And she said, and there are fewer people there to come up to me. And she said, and I don't mind it. I love people. She said, I just don't want it to get in the way of our shopping.

• 15:18Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 15:18Speaker 02

  And, you know, Carl's not wild about it. So they just live a very simple, kind of pure life together, I think, outside the limelight.

• 15:25Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I've read an interview with her somewhere and she said that in her opinion, if she's out in public, that time belongs to her fans. So she's not, she doesn't have a problem with people coming up to her, um, asking for autographs. She knows that she's out in public and that's a risk that she runs, right?

• 15:40Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 15:41Josh Clark?

  But her, her leisure time, her time away is like secluded off with Carl, just the two of them usually. Maybe, uh, she has a very close best friend. I can't remember her name. They, they, they go everywhere together. So she's almost like a stand-in for Carl when Dolly's traveling around.

• 15:56Speaker 02

  Yeah. And she's always been very, her persona is very flirty and she's always sort of flirted around with, uh, in fact, no friends that have, uh, worked on like commercial shoots with her. And they were like, man, she's the biggest flirt you would ever know. And that's just her personality. And she said that Carl understands that and that's just how she sort of has fun and relates to people. And it's always very innocent. And, uh, I just think it's kind of, kind of cute and fun.

• 16:22Josh Clark?

  Yep, for sure.

• 16:23Speaker 02

  I want her to flirt with me, you know? I think is what I'm saying.

• 16:26Josh Clark?

  This, this episode might be your big break, Chuck.

• 16:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:30Josh Clark?

  So, um, would you just like turn bright red and like dig your, the toe of your foot into the?

• 16:35Speaker 02

  I kind of am a little bright red. I thought it was the stuff you should know sign in here casting a, a red beam on my face.

• 16:41Josh Clark?

  No, it's you thinking about being flirted with by Dolly Parton.

• 16:44Speaker 02

  I know. Well, dude, I grew up as you did, but I'm a, you know, a little bit older, like the heyday of early Dolly was when I was a kid. And of course my dad was in love with her and, you know, it was just, she was one of the biggest stars in the world. And my parents were kind of into country music. So she was just sort of prevalent in our household somehow.

• 17:03Josh Clark?

  Yeah. My introduction to her was through nine to five. And my mom, that, that whole message and the idea behind it was right up my mom's alley. So she would watch it with her hands clasped together at the side of her face.

• 17:15Speaker 02

  I love that.

• 17:15Josh Clark?

  Just an editor, iteration of everybody, including Dolly Parton too. I think, um, my family was never really into country music. So I think that that was like a big introduction and probably a win over for my family was nine to five.

• 17:28Speaker 02

  Uh, all right. Well, we'll talk about nine to five and crossover success more. It's a good setup, but how about we take a break?

• 17:34Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 17:35Speaker 02

  And we'll be right back with more Dolly Parton.

• 17:53Josh Clark?

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• 20:04Josh Clark?

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• 21:14Josh Clark?

  Okay, so we're talking about Dolly becoming a star. Like, she's had a couple of record contracts, nothing serious, though. But then in 1965, she signed with Monument Records. That was her big, her first big record contract, I read. But they wanted her to be a pop singer, which is kind of ironic because she actually would kind of become a pop singer later on in her career. But at first, she was like, no way. Like, have you seen my house? And do you know how many people are in my family? I'm not a pop singer, I'm a country singer, right? So she persisted and hung in there, and they ended up, like, folding and giving in. And she went on to become a full-fledged country singer.

• 21:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, in 1967, her first record, Hello, I'm Dolly, which is just great how they used to do records like that and title them like that when you, like, introduce her to the world. But, you know, as would become a thing, like, in her career, most of the songs that she's well-known for, most of the songs she's recorded, she's done, you know, plenty of covers because everyone does that, especially in country music. But she is most well-known as a songwriter. And we'll get into that more in a little bit. But she wrote two. Now, I, Libya has a number 24, but I saw that they were both top 20 on the country charts. Dumb Blonde, which is written by a guy named Curly Putman. Great name.

• 22:39Speaker 02

  And Something Fishy, written by Dolly. And I think the album itself was a top 20 hit. Her debut right off,

• 22:46Josh Clark?

  That's crazy.

• 22:47Speaker 02

  You know, on the country charts, right off out of the gate.

• 22:50Josh Clark?

  Yes. I was looking up Something Fishy, and it's about a woman who's become convinced that her husband's fishing trips aren't actually fishing trips and that he's running around on her. So one of the lines is, "I guess some largemouth bass left that lipstick on your shirt. I don't think you're a fisherman, honey. I think you're a flirt."

• 23:10Josh Clark?

  That's like, perfect debut Dolly. Like, at what age, like, 19, I think, is how old she is? Yeah, that's pretty great.

• 23:18Speaker 02

  And Porter Wagner is someone that we talked about on our Grand Ole Opry show. And he had the Porter Wagner Show. He hires young Dolly to replace his other young woman sidekick singer. And basically, she elevated the show to the point where it was a number one, the number one syndicated show in the country, radio show.

• 23:39Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 23:40Speaker 02

  And they started doing duets together and albums together, including their first one, Just Between You and Me, in 1968.

• 23:47Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and they started touring a lot, too. And she learned a tremendous amount about touring, performing live, the music business. Everything she needed to learn early on came from touring with Porter Wagner. But he was also really well-aware that he had, like, a real cash register on his hands.

• 24:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:08Josh Clark?

  And he kept her under his thumb as much as he could, both emotionally blackmailing her, I get the impression, but also locking her into just really exploitive contracts because she might not have known what she was signing. She probably did and just figured like, okay, at least it's going to help me get to where I'm going. That's the likelier explanation, if you ask me. But he was definitely in charge for the first many years of her serious career.

• 24:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, but because she's Dolly Parton and so beloved, when they eventually broke up their relationship, I think it was kind of rough. And she ended up writing a song, "I Will Always Love You", about that relationship. And ultimately, they worked it out, and she reconciled and was at his deathbed with his family. And it was kind of one of those no-hard-feelings kind of situations.

• 24:58Josh Clark?

  Oh, really? I read that his last dying words were, "I'll never forgive you." That's what I'm going to say on my deathbed.

• 25:05Speaker 02

  No.

• 25:06Josh Clark?

  I'm just going to, like, wave my finger around the room to everybody standing there.

• 25:10Speaker 02

  And we're all going to be like, is he talking about me?

• 25:12Josh Clark?

  Exactly. You guys can spend the rest of your lives figuring it out.

• 25:16Speaker 02

  And you and me will just look at me and say, he's talking about you.

• 25:20Josh Clark?

  Totally.

• 25:21Speaker 02

  So they, while they were a duet, she also-

• 25:25Josh Clark?

  Oh, wait, wait, Chuck, wait, wait, hold on, one more thing. You brought up "I Will Always Love You", which everybody knows, one of probably your most, one of her most famous songs. Arguably, her other most famous song, "Jolene".

• 25:35Speaker 02

  Ugh, great song.

• 25:37Josh Clark?

  She apparently wrote those songs on the same day, start to finish. Isn't that amazing?

• 25:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, she, she now says, like, you know, if it wasn't the same day, it was in the, within a couple of days of each other. But like, either way, it's remarkable.

• 25:53Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and it's possible it was the same day. She just doesn't remember. But that really, like, kind of goes to show what kind of, she, she was drinking cups of ambition left and right, apparently. Because not only is that story potentially true, she also put out 25 albums.

• 26:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:11Josh Clark?

  Both duets with Porter Wagner and then some solo albums in the five-year period between 1968 and 1973.

• 26:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, that's remarkable. She started, and that's kind of where I was headed anyway. She kind of started recording her own solo stuff as she was, you know, it was kind of obvious. She just had, she was too prolific of a songwriter. I mean, she supposedly, her quote is that she's written more than 3,000 songs, and three of them are good.

• 26:40Speaker 02

  She's also humble, another reason people love Dolly Parton. But she, she had too much to say early on. And so started making solo records while she was still with Wagner. And it was in that, that time period, I think in the early 70s is when, you know, those iconic songs, "Jolene" and "I Will Always Love You" came out.

• 26:58Josh Clark?

  Right, but still under the tutelage of Porter Wagner, right?

• 27:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, those are solo albums. And I think "I Will Always Love You" was about them splitting apart. So it was sort of right there at the end, I think.

• 27:10Josh Clark?

  It definitely was. And I heard a story years back that he said, "Okay, I'll let you out of your contract if you let me produce this amazing song."

• 27:18Speaker 02

  Oh, that song?

• 27:19Josh Clark?

  Yeah, "I Will Always Love You", right? And then apparently, he turned around and sued her anyway for breach of contract. But she, she got out of it. She got out of this, this, this terrible contract, this exploitive contract. She got out from under a very domineering mentor. And this is a really big time of transition for her because not only did she get away from Porter Wagner, which was enormous, because in a sense- Um, she was like a pinball that had just been plunged when she was released from, from Porter Wagner, just looking for like the, the next bumper to just shoot her off in another direction. That's my analogy, buddy.

• 27:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:59Josh Clark?

  And that's exactly what happened, but she also had to break up with her family band. Like they were her original backing band. She had to be like, I, I gotta get better musicians, you guys. And she made some really hard decisions, but they, they ended up paying off. And from what I understand, there were no lasting hard feelings from it.

• 28:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's pretty great. Um, she hosted a TV show for one season, Just Like Us. Uh, it was called Dolly. You know, back then they had all those great variety shows. Uh, this was 76 into 77. And then a very important, uh, man comes into her life by the name of, uh, Sandy Gallin, who was a Uber manager, uh, got the Beatles on Ed Sullivan, would later manage Michael Jackson and Barbra Streisand and Cher. And Sandy Gallin was a, a pretty instrumental person for a couple of reasons. One is, um, kind of encouraging the crossover success.

• 28:57Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 28:57Speaker 02

  Like he booked her at the Bottom Line in the Greenwich Village, who, you know, everyone from Springsteen to Lou Reed were playing there.

• 29:03Josh Clark?

  Like Andy Warhol came and watched her show. There's an awesome picture of them sitting together.

• 29:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. Talk about crossover.

• 29:10Josh Clark?

  Yeah, exactly. And she was nervous. I saw that she was nervous on the, on the way to being scared.

• 29:16Speaker 02

  I'm sure.

• 29:17Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 29:18Speaker 02

  Uh, he had her tour Europe, exposed her internationally. Um, uh, he, uh, took her to Studio 54, which is probably where she also hung out with Andy Warhol. Um, but the other big reason is that Sandy Gallin was gay. Uh, he died like five years ago. And this was, um, a very instrumental relationship. And, and I get the impression, you know, Dolly is very famous for, uh, being a sort of an icon in the LGBTQ community.

• 29:45Josh Clark?

  Yeah, from very early on.

• 29:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it, and it seems like, uh, this is kind of where it all started was, um, having this relationship with Sandy. And, you know, just the, the gay community wrapping their arms around her early on. Not necessarily because, you know, she had a gay manager, but, you know, I don't think it hurt.

• 30:05Josh Clark?

  Right. And, uh, the New York Times wrote that she got a warm welcome in San Francisco from transgender fans. And quote, "other exotic urban cult audiences."

• 30:17Speaker 02

  Well, Dolly's always said, you know, she's one of those love is love types and, uh, you know, it's just like, it's the way to live life. Like she doesn't judge people and she never has. And she's always just embraced like whatever community wants to love her music. Like, why would she, I, I never get it when people like intentionally sort of turn audiences off.

• 30:40Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 30:41Speaker 02

  You know?

• 30:41Josh Clark?

  Yeah, no, for sure. Um, for sure. But also like it's, that's so true. And it's so prevalent when, when you read about her, watch interviews with her, just listen to her talk. You're almost like, what's your angle, Dolly?

• 30:56Speaker 02

  Right.

• 30:57Josh Clark?

  What are you really up to here?

• 31:01Speaker 02

  Uh, her big, uh, crossover hit was Here You Come Again, which was considered a pop song. I mean, I've always kind of thought it was a country song, I guess. Cause her voice is in it and she insisted on, uh, steel guitar, uh, so it still had a little country tinge to it.

• 31:17Josh Clark?

  But it's like, it was a huge song. It's a perfect crossover. Like it's exactly perfectly balanced. Like there couldn't have been a better song to transition from full-on country singer to country pop singer.

• 31:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it went number one on the country chart, number three on the pop charts. Album went platinum. And this is, you know, the late seventies when she really, really, really blew up.

• 31:41Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that was that. She just took off like a rocket from there. One of the things that she did very wisely, uh, in the late seventies, early eighties, right around this time, was just hop on the, the, um, TV circuit.

• 31:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:54Josh Clark?

  She's been on at least a few hundred TV appearances. But a lot of them took place in the seventies and eighties when she was just making herself known, making herself a household name. Uh, and none of this was by accident. Like she's, she's, she's wanted to, to be in a mega star since she was a kid. And this was part of, she, she apparently makes a lot of lists. And they turn out to kind of be five-year plans. And I'm sure getting on the talk show circuit was part of one of those lists.

• 32:25Speaker 02

  And that explains why as a kid growing up in the seventies, I saw a lot of Dolly Barton.

• 32:29Josh Clark?

  Exactly.

• 32:30Speaker 02

  She was everywhere.

• 32:31Josh Clark?

  Dolly wanted you to see a lot of Dolly Barton.

• 32:34Speaker 02

  Uh, in the eighties is when she continued, uh, some of her, uh, collaborations with other artists. Very famously with Kenny Rogers with Islands in the Stream. Huge, massive hit.

• 32:44Josh Clark?

  Haven't heard it.

• 32:46Speaker 02

  Uh, and then 1987, my favorite, uh, collaboration at least came out. And maybe my favorite Dolly stuff, period.

• 32:54Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 32:54Speaker 02

  Uh, was the album Trio. Yeah. That she recorded with Linda Ronstadt and Emmylou Harris. Um, just three of the best voices in the history of music coming together to sing together. Uh, they ended up making three albums over the years together. Uh, so if you haven't listened to any of this stuff, highly recommend Trio from 1987.

• 33:12Josh Clark?

  She also released some bluegrass albums in the late nineties. The Grass is Blue, Little Sparrow, Halos and Horns. And then, um, she released her first Christmas album in 30 years back in 2020, A Holly Dolly Christmas. Which, uh, is pretty good. It's cute. Uh, but I think the best Christmas album she released was Once Upon a Christmas in 1984. There's a lot of Kenny Rogers on it.

• 33:37Speaker 02

  I made a joke this last Christmas on Instagram. I think that like, probably 50% of Dolly Barton's Christmas songs are about sex.

• 33:47Josh Clark?

  It's true.

• 33:48Speaker 02

  Where there's like sexual overtones. It's kind of funny.

• 33:51Josh Clark?

  Exactly. Yeah.

• 33:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's good stuff.

• 33:52Josh Clark?

  But that, um, that 1984 album has Hard Candy Christmas on it, which is, I mean,

• 33:59Speaker 02

  There you have it.

• 33:59Josh Clark?

  Maybe your best, her best one, if you ask me.

• 34:03Speaker 02

  Great song. Uh, all right. So now let's talk a little bit more about her songwriting. Uh, I think that's the thing that she's sort of most proud of. Um, she said in a 2020 book, uh, if I had to choose just one thing to be, I would choose to be a songwriter. Um, she's always said that she loves writing from the male point of view. She loves writing songs for men. Cause a lot of her songs are sort of narrative story type songs. Uh, and she's written a lot of big, huge hits for people like Merle Haggard and Kenny Rogers and Hank Williams Jr. And all kinds of dudes.

• 34:37Josh Clark?

  Right. She also plays a bunch of instruments. The guitar, she says, is her strongest. And there's a lot of other string instruments that she can play. I saw a video of one of her concerts. She's got a banjo slung around her.

• 34:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:51Josh Clark?

  Her, like a, she's got a strap hanging from a strap while she's playing a fiddle really fast. It's pretty amazing. But if you really want to be amazed by Dolly, you should watch her play the saxophone. And in particular, uh, in, at the Glastonbury Music Festival in 2014 in the UK, in front of a crowd of a hundred thousand, she busted out Yakety Sax.

• 35:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:12Josh Clark?

  The Benny Hill theme song. And it just killed.

• 35:17Speaker 02

  It did. That whole show is a fun watch because it's, you know, it's in, it's at the Glastonbury Festival. And it's like, I don't know. I, I think her legendary status just like grew with that appearance.

• 35:28Josh Clark?

  Oh yeah. Like she was, you know, kind of a cult favorite in the UK. And then she became like a, a, like a pop culture favorite after that show.

• 35:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. Uh, Nine to Five, the movie that you mentioned before in 1980, is when she got into movie making. And it is a movie, boy, not only does it hold up today, but it is, that was ahead of its time and like even more relevant today than it probably was then.

• 35:51Josh Clark?

  Which is sad if you stop and think about it.

• 35:54Speaker 02

  No, no, totally sad.

• 35:55Josh Clark?

  But it was based on an actual movement called Nine to Five, the Nine to Five Movement from the early seventies. Uh, that I guess Jane Fonda was aware of, um, because she was one of the creators behind the movie Nine to Five. And, uh, that was an actual like movement led by secretaries, starting in Boston, and it spread around the country. And they were, um, protesting sexual harassment, low pay, getting passed over promotions. And they had a great, uh, slogan that I saw, raises not roses.

• 36:24Speaker 02

  Raises not roses. Yeah. I love that.

• 36:26Josh Clark?

  I love it too. Like talk about a great t-shirt. Exactly.

• 36:29Speaker 02

  How about some money?

• 36:30Josh Clark?

  Exactly.

• 36:31Speaker 02

  I'll buy my own flowers.

• 36:33Josh Clark?

  Right. I can buy my own flowers.

• 36:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what the back of the t-shirt said. And then parentheses, quit pinching my butt.

• 36:40Josh Clark?

  Plus also that's a Miley Cyrus song. Who is Dolly Barton's goddaughter?

• 36:46Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 36:47Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 36:48Speaker 02

  And Dolly credits that relationship with the fact that millennials love Dolly.

• 36:52Josh Clark?

  Yeah. I, I wasn't aware of this. So everybody knows, even I know that Miley Cyrus was Hannah Montana on Nickelodeon from I think 2006 to 2011, right? Um, and she would have Dolly on here or there as Aunt Dolly, like her aunt, Hannah Montana's aunt. And I guess like millennials just grew up watching that and that she just exposed herself, not literally, but figuratively to an entirely new generation. And it stuck. Like that's, that's how they, that's how they met Dolly and they just kept following her and loving her from that point on.

• 37:26Speaker 02

  I love it. Uh, she was in a bunch of movies over the years. Uh, Best Little Whorehouse in Texas with Burt Reynolds, of course. Uh, part of the ensemble in Steel Magnolias. Uh, very disappointingly, Livia doesn't mention my favorite Dolly, second favorite Dolly Barton movie, uh, which was Rhinestone with Sylvester Stallone. One of my big HBO movies early on. I watched that thing over and over again. Stallone sings. Have you ever seen it?

• 37:52Josh Clark?

  No, I never have. I turned, I turned the TV off after Life Force.

• 37:58Speaker 02

  Uh, you should check out Rhinestone because she, you know, the, the premise is she's, uh, to make a country star out of Sylvester Stallone. And he has a song in there called Drinkenstein instead of Frankenstein. And the chorus is Budweiser, you've created a monster and they call him Drinkenstein.

• 38:18Josh Clark?

  Wow.

• 38:19Speaker 02

  But Stallone really sings and it's just, I, I think it's known probably as a bad movie, but, uh, it has a very special place in my heart.

• 38:25Josh Clark?

  It sounds like the prequel to Tulsa King.

• 38:30Josh Clark?

  So she also, did you mention Sand Dollar yet?

• 38:33Speaker 02

  No.

• 38:34Josh Clark?

  She founded a production company with Sandy Gallin, her longtime manager and friend. And they went on to produce movies like Father of the Bride.

• 38:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:44Josh Clark?

  Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the movie.

• 38:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:47Josh Clark?

  And she also did Straight Talk, which she was in, where she plays a woman who accidentally becomes a radio host and of course just shoots into the stratosphere in popularity.

• 38:58Speaker 02

  I never saw that.

• 39:00Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah, it was, it was okay.

• 39:03Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 39:05Josh Clark?

  Not her best work, but still. She was amazing in Steel Magnolias. I mean, like, if you

• 39:09Speaker 02

  Shelby.

• 39:10Josh Clark?

  If you go back and, and yeah, if you go back and watch some of those scenes between her and her husband in particular, it's, she's a really good actress.

• 39:18Speaker 02

  No, she's good. And in fact, but the Shelby I just did was more Sally Field. Now that I think about it.

• 39:24Josh Clark?

  I detected a hint of Sally Field in there.

• 39:27Speaker 02

  All right, I think let's take another break and then we'll, uh, this is gonna go a little long, but that's okay, uh, cause we're about to dive into Dollywood right after this.

• 39:35Josh Clark?

  Shelby.

• 39:52Josh Clark?

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• 40:54Josh Clark?

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• 41:41Josh Clark?

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• 42:02Speaker 02

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• 42:05Josh Clark?

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• 42:16Josh Clark?

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• 42:35Josh Clark?

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• 43:10Speaker 02

  All right, my friend, here we are. I'll set it up with how it starts, and then you can just take over, because you've actually been there.

• 43:19Speaker 02

  But in an interview in 1982 with Barbara Walters, Dolly Parton said something about being interested in opening up a theme park back home.

• 43:28Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 43:28Speaker 02

  And there was a theme park, Silver Dollar City in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee. And the owners, Jack and Pete Hirschen, heard this interview, gave her a call, and was like, let's get together on this. And they did, to great success.

• 43:43Josh Clark?

  Yeah, four years later, Dollywood opened. It reopened as Dollywood, I should say. Just that first year, they doubled their entries to 1.3 million people coming.

• 43:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:55Josh Clark?

  And that's not just a full year. Like, it snows and everything kinda shuts down in the wintertime in, in Pigeon Forge or in the Smokies. So I'm guessing they crammed a lot of those people in in a very short amount of time, probably summer. I don't know why I'm going off on this tangent, but it just seemed important when I started.

• 44:11Speaker 02

  It's called how theme parks work. They close in the winter.

• 44:14Josh Clark?

  Be quiet, you. So, um, so it was a success right out of the gate, I should say. And little known fact, or it's a rumor that a lot of people don't realize is actual fact, there, she, they buried a time capsule there on opening day, and it contains an unreleased Dolly song.

• 44:31Speaker 02

  No way.

• 44:32Josh Clark?

  That is not to be opened until I think she's 99 years old.

• 44:35Speaker 02

  Wow. Which is, what is she now, 76?

• 44:40Josh Clark?

  78, I think.

• 44:41Speaker 02

  Okay, so it's, it's close.

• 44:43Josh Clark?

  Yeah, we can wait.

• 44:45Speaker 02

  She sees it, yeah.

• 44:45Josh Clark?

  Oh, we'll wait.

• 44:47Speaker 02

  So tell me about Dollywood. I wanna, I wanna know more.

• 44:49Josh Clark?

  So it is a, you can definitely believe that it used to be a Silver Dollar City. They preserved a lot of stuff. There's a coal-fired train that kinda takes you around on some neat vistas and everything. There's, um, we went, we went around Christmas time, which kinda undermines my argument about things shutting down in the winter. We went for Yumi's birthday, actually, like, one year. And, um, there was like a Christmas show where there was like singing and dancing, but it was so corny that I was waiting for everybody to be like, oh, you know, we're just joking, here's the real show. It never happened. It was just that, like, kitschy and American and earnest, yeah, and just corny. But it was very sweet, in retrospect especially. Hard to sit through, but very sweet.

• 45:32Josh Clark?

  And then there's just a lot of, like, people dipping candles, there's tons of food to eat. There's a roller coaster that neither Yumi nor I went on, but there's a museum there that's closed temporarily, cause apparently they're reimagining it. But it was originally called the Chasing Rainbows Museum. And Dolly Parton is a, just a self-professed pack rat. She saved everything, Chuck. Everything. The coat of many colors that she sings about, it's there. You can see it in real life, right there. And it's the tiniest, cutest little thing you've ever seen in your entire life. It's so tiny.

• 46:09Speaker 02

  This is a coat her mom made for her when she was a kid, right? Out of old rags?

• 46:13Josh Clark?

  That she sang about, and that coat of many colors.

• 46:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:15Josh Clark?

  And it's, what a great song, but then just to, just to love that song and then see the actual coat, and then just see how dinky it is, it was just amazing. Those lists I told you she used to keep, she kept those, those are on display. Wigs, rhinestones everywhere, but it's, it's not just like this ode or tribute to Dolly, it's a genuine, like, curated look into her whole career. And it's, it was one of the best museums I've ever been to in my life of any kind.

• 46:43Speaker 02

  Why didn't you guys ride the roller coaster?

• 46:45Josh Clark?

  We're both scared of roller coasters.

• 46:47Speaker 02

  Oh, I don't think I remembered that.

• 46:49Josh Clark?

  Yes, I've been scared of roller coasters for decades, but I feel like I'm starting to come out of it.

• 46:54Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 46:55Josh Clark?

  And I might go challenge myself and ride a few roller coasters this summer, uh, and see if I'm correct or if I'm really, really wrong.

• 47:02Speaker 02

  Well, you should go to Six Flags with Ruby and I, because there's nothing like getting your courage worked up than a seven-year-old who will ride anything.

• 47:11Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 47:12Speaker 02

  Staring you in the face.

• 47:13Josh Clark?

  Okay, all right, I may use that. That's just the elixir I'm looking for.

• 47:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, cause she'll go on whatever, and she's just like, she wouldn't understand. She'd be like, why don't you wanna go on it? What do you mean, you're scared?

• 47:24Josh Clark?

  I don't, you're, you're kinda ruining things for me.

• 47:28Speaker 02

  Well, I wanna go to Dollywood, so maybe we can go to Six Flags and then Dollywood and just do a, a theme park roundup.

• 47:33Josh Clark?

  I strongly recommend it, because there's like all sorts of stuff in nearby Gatlinburg and Pigeon Forge, which is like one of those

• 47:39Speaker 02

  I've been to Gatlinburg.

• 47:40Josh Clark?

  Ripley's museums, and just all sorts of just cool, super kitschy touristy stuff.

• 47:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:48Josh Clark?

  Oh, what's his name?

• 47:51Josh Clark?

  The guy who sings Proud to be an American? Lee Greenwood. There's the Lee Greenwood Cafe, where they, no joke, play that song

• 47:59Speaker 02

  Oh, no.

• 47:59Josh Clark?

  On a loop, over and over again. The whole time, you're like, where's, where's the next song? They don't play the next song.

• 48:05Speaker 02

  I heard that song every night of the summer for like five summers when I worked at the Stone Mountain Laser Show.

• 48:10Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah, I'll bet.

• 48:11Speaker 02

  I got my fill of it.

• 48:12Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 48:14Speaker 02

  So we can talk a little bit more about her politics. She's, and this is where the sociologists and anthropologists come in. There's a sociologist named Tressie McMillan Cottum, uh, that has written about how black women have always looked up to Dolly Parton as a role model, uh, even though she is like, it's a very specific sort of white, southern thing that she embodies. Again, just, you know, testifies to her crossover appeal, that she is to be admired by anybody. Her Q score, uh, if you don't know what a Q score is, it's a marketing tool that basically, there's a bunch of things that go into your Q score, but it's basically how, how much people like you, how much they recognize your name. And her Q score is like, legendarily, one of the top Q scores of all time, celebrity-wise.

• 48:59Josh Clark?

  She has a high positive Q score. They also do a negative Q score, and she has a very low negative Q score. So she's among the most beloved and among the least disliked people in the entire world.

• 49:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't wanna know my Q score.

• 49:12Josh Clark?

  I, I looked it up, we don't have one yet.

• 49:14Speaker 02

  Okay, good.

• 49:15Josh Clark?

  But, um, I was reading this article on the conversation, and these two Australian marketing people were trying to figure out who would have been Australia's Dolly, and they landed on Hugh Jackman. And I'm like, I can't disagree with that.

• 49:27Speaker 02

  He's pretty likable.

• 49:28Josh Clark?

  Sure, everybody likes Hugh Jackman.

• 49:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would agree with that.

• 49:33Josh Clark?

  Even though he did The Greatest Showman.

• 49:35Speaker 02

  Right.

• 49:35Josh Clark?

  People still like Hugh Jackman.

• 49:39Speaker 02

  The anthropologist comes in, a man named Jonathan Zilber in 1995, um, talked about how she was loved in Zimbabwe.

• 49:48Speaker 02

  Of all places. And again, it's just like, you know, pick a, pick a country and chances are people there love Dolly Parton.

• 49:56Josh Clark?

  And in Dolly Parton's America, didn't they talk about how Nelson Mandela, um, while he was in prison in South Africa, got his, uh, jailers to play Jolene for the whole.

• 50:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:06Josh Clark?

  Whole jail, basically all a Shawshank Redemption.

• 50:10Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 50:11Josh Clark?

  Pretty cool.

• 50:12Speaker 02

  Pretty cool. Uh, and like you said earlier, she, she basically just avoids politics. She doesn't let any politician on either side use her music. Um, if a Democrat uses it, she shuts them down. If a Republican uses it, she shuts them down. She just sort of sidesteps all that stuff. Um, she's always, um, been, you know, uh, growing up, of course, in the seventies, there were a lot of playground jokes about Dolly Parton's breast size. She was very well known for it. And she's always been the first one to jump in and joke about it herself. Instead of being like the butt of the joke, she can just go along with it. And that's just, that's another really likable quality is someone who can, and can laugh at themselves and not take things too seriously.

• 50:54Josh Clark?

  I also saw it put that she, um, she knows that these jokes are going to be made anyway. So she can diffuse them by getting out in front of them and topping, you know, the lame jokes that like old talk show hosts would make.

• 51:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:08Josh Clark?

  Um, I saw once she said that, uh, she burned her bra and it took the fire department three days to put it out. Like that kind of stuff. That's hilarious.

• 51:17Speaker 02

  That was her joke?

• 51:18Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 51:18Speaker 02

  Oh, that's good. That's very funny.

• 51:20Josh Clark?

  So I think we mentioned this before. Do you know that, um, Dolly, the sheep, the first cloned animal on the planet was named Dolly because, uh, it, she was grown from a mammary gland. So.

• 51:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:32Josh Clark?

  I can't remember where we talked about that, but it really just goes to show like, that's how, that's how ubiquitous Dolly Parton's boobs were in the 20th century.

• 51:40Speaker 02

  I know.

• 51:41Josh Clark?

  Like they were as big as she was, basically.

• 51:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:45Josh Clark?

  They were definitely part of her.

• 51:46Speaker 02

  Intended.

• 51:46Josh Clark?

  They were definitely part of her brand for sure.

• 51:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. You know, she was smart enough to lean into it. Uh, another thing that she had done over the years is she, there are a lot of really dark songs that she's written about, uh, even though she's never kind of outright considered herself a feminist. She very much is. Uh, and a lot of the songs she's written over the years have been very dark songs about women who are either abandoned or suffering from sexual double standards. Or there's a one brutal song from 1970 called Daddy Come and Get Me about a true story of a relative in her family that was basically institutionalized by her husband. So she's never been afraid to go down sort of in the tradition of the old sort of dark country murder ballad thing, go down these darker roads with some of the songs she's written.

• 52:34Josh Clark?

  Yeah. I saw that she considers herself, um, not a feminist, but in favor of all women. She's for all women. So it's like, she doesn't subscribe to the movement part, but what the movement's ultimately about, she's totally in favor with. And that's super her. Um, well, she, she made a very rare overt statement, um, when she came out in support of Black Lives Matter at a really like, at a time where it was like you're casting your lot one way or another. Um, and she stood up for it, um, which is pretty cool.

• 53:08Speaker 02

  She did. Uh, she also, uh, in 2018, there was, um, at Dollywood, the Dixie Stampede. Um, she changed the name to Dolly Parton Stampede after people complained about the, the whole Dixie connotation and civil war theme. She changed that up and she was just like, you know, I never really thought about, you know, the Confederate imagery, meaning what it meant to, to people. And so she was hap- happily changed it. Uh, and that's just the kind of person she is, I think.

• 53:35Josh Clark?

  And she got guff for that. And she got guff for supporting Black Lives Matter from some of her, um, her right-leaning fans, but she, uh, she can always explain herself, you know? And she does so in such a great way that you're just kind of like, well, fine. It's hard to be, you can't keep a grudge against her, even if she goes against you politically, but she just so rarely does it.

• 53:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, agreed. Uh, she is, uh, we're going to wind it down with her business and philanthropy. Um, very savvy business person from the very beginning. Uh, she was smart enough to hang on to her, um, the rights to her own music and never give them up. Even when Elvis Presley came calling.

• 54:13Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 54:13Speaker 02

  And wanted to cover, I Will Always Love You. He wanted half the publishing rights and she was like, no way. So take a walk, Elvis Presley.

• 54:21Josh Clark?

  He didn't. Apparently Colonel Tom called her up on the morning of the scheduled recording session and sprung that on her and she turned him down. And she said, she was hoping that Elvis was, was as disappointed as she was, but that took a lot of gumption, especially to have it sprung on you like that. And she said, nope, not doing it. But that's one of the things that made her so incredibly wealthy. Like apparently her music catalog has a net worth of about a hundred and 50 million dollars. And brings in about six to eight million dollars a year for her, according to, I think Forbes. And then her stake in Dollywood is her, um, her most valuable asset. I think it's like a hundred and 65 million dollars. Pretty neat.

• 55:02Speaker 02

  She has done quite well for herself.

• 55:03Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 55:05Speaker 02

  Uh, she, I mean, these days she's, she's not stopping either. She's, um, she's on Duncan Hines buttermilk biscuit mix with her little cartoon face. They have fragrances branded by Dolly. Uh, they have pet clothes that she's branded with, um, like just all kinds of things. She's not afraid to license her image.

• 55:26Josh Clark?

  No.

• 55:26Speaker 02

  Uh, for sure.

• 55:27Josh Clark?

  We've got that, um, the Duncan Hines frosting in our pantry.

• 55:30Speaker 02

  Do you?

• 55:31Josh Clark?

  The chocolate, chocolate cream frosting. And then one other thing I saw Chuck, she wrote a book, co-wrote a book with James Patterson, one of the best.

• 55:38Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 55:38Josh Clark?

  Most favorite novelists in the entire world. It's called Run Rose Run. And it's a thriller based kind of loosely on Dolly's story of, of making it in the music base.

• 55:47Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 55:48Josh Clark?

  Yeah. I think it just came out.

• 55:50Speaker 02

  Okay. I might have to check that out.

• 55:51Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 55:52Speaker 02

  Uh, she is very charitable as well. She started the Dollywood Foundation in 1988, uh, just to get literacy going in her home county. And it grew and grew and grew to the point where it is now in the U S, Canada, Australia, the UK and Ireland. And to date, uh, the program has given out more than 204 million books across these countries. And, um, you know, she helped build a hospital in her county. Um, anytime there's like wildfires nearby, she's chipping in. Uh, she very famously donated a million dollars to Vanderbilt University Medical Center

• 56:32Speaker 02

  for COVID-19 vaccine research. And, you know, people don't credit her with the Moderna vaccine, but they're like, that million dollars was instrumental in getting that vaccine to trial.

• 56:44Josh Clark?

  Well, yeah. She also was like, everybody go get jabbed. She.

• 56:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:48Josh Clark?

  There was a video that went around of her, um, getting her own, um, vaccine, the first one, I think. Um, and she was singing vaccine to the tune of Jolene.

• 56:58Speaker 02

  And saying. Pretty nice tie in.

• 56:59Josh Clark?

  Yeah, exactly. It was great. So, um, the one other thing though, about her foundation, I, one reason she got into literacy, um, programs was because her father never learned to read. And apparently he told her just before he died that he was most proud of her for, for that work that she'd done with, with promoting literacy around the world. It's, it's pretty cool. It makes it even neater.

• 57:21Speaker 02

  Uh, and in addition to the vaccine, Jolene song, she also did a version of, uh, I Will Always Jab You.

• 57:28Josh Clark?

  That was less popular.

• 57:30Speaker 02

  Less popular.

• 57:30Josh Clark?

  Sounds a little aggressive.

• 57:32Speaker 02

  She's been nominated for 53 Grammys, 53. Uh, she's won 10, which I think that number should be higher. Uh, but you know, they have given her like lifetime achievement awards and, uh, Jolene and I Will Always Love You were inducted into the Grammy Hall of Fame. So they have like heaped awards on her, even when she has not won the actual Grammy. Uh, and she's also won an Emmy, right?

• 57:57Josh Clark?

  Yeah. She was also up for two Oscars for best song for, um, oh, traveling through for Trans America in, I think, 2006, and then, um, nine to five, the song.

• 58:10Speaker 02

  Nine to five not win?

• 58:11Josh Clark?

  No, it was beaten by fame.

• 58:14Speaker 02

  Oh, boy. That's a tough year.

• 58:16Josh Clark?

  Traveling through was beaten by Hard Out There For A Pimp from Hustle And Flow.

• 58:21Speaker 02

  That's a good song too.

• 58:22Josh Clark?

  How are you going to top that?

• 58:23Speaker 02

  It's really hard. I was getting, getting ready to trash whatever beat out nine to five, but.

• 58:28Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 58:28Speaker 02

  Fame, fame is a great song. That's a, that's a tough year.

• 58:30Josh Clark?

  That was a very tough year. But she also has two, two Guinness World Records to her name. One of which is most decades with a top 20 hit, which really just goes to show how long she's been around and how long she's been huge.

• 58:44Speaker 02

  You know what else she has two of?

• 58:46Josh Clark?

  What?

• 58:46Speaker 02

  Stars on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, two.

• 58:49Josh Clark?

  I know. Is there anybody else who has that?

• 58:51Speaker 02

  I, I think so. People in different media, although, uh, probably not a lot of people. I bet it's a pretty short list. Um, one in 1984, and then one in 2018, when, uh, I guess the final trio of trio albums came out.

• 59:07Josh Clark?

  So if you think Dolly's slowing down, friend, you are dead wrong.

• 59:11Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 59:12Josh Clark?

  She's got a new album coming out. So she was inducted in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame despite her protest. She's like, I'm not a rocker. Apparently she's like, all right, well, I better go be a rocker and earn that honor. Um, she's, so her next studio album, her 49th is coming out, I think this fall. Um, and it's called Rockstar. And she's going to be singing with some other rock stars too.

• 59:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. Stevie Nicks, uh, Paul McCartney, Cher. I love it.

• 59:38Josh Clark?

  Yep. Vince Neil.

• 59:40Speaker 02

  No, not Vince Neil.

• 59:42Josh Clark?

  That's correct. Not Vince Neil.

• 59:43Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 59:46Speaker 02

  That'd be pretty amazing, actually.

• 59:48Josh Clark?

  Um, you got anything else about Dolly Parton? Oh, I've got one other thing.

• 59:52Speaker 02

  Let's hear it.

• 59:52Josh Clark?

  Before you answer, she wakes up at 3:00 AM every day.

• 59:55Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 59:57Josh Clark?

  And just.

• 59:57Speaker 02

  Daughter of a sharecropper.

• 59:59Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I guess so.

• 1:00:00Speaker 02

  That's amazing.

• 1:00:01Josh Clark?

  Okay. You got anything else?

• 1:00:03Speaker 02

  I got nothing else.

• 1:00:05Josh Clark?

  Okay. I don't either. I don't think, but I'm going to think of 10 things after we're done recording.

• 1:00:10Speaker 02

  I know. I'm going to, I've been listening to Dolly Parton all day, so it's going to continue on.

• 1:00:14Josh Clark?

  Yeah. It's not hard to do. Uh, if you want to know more about Dolly Parton, friend, go listen to Dolly Parton, go watch videos of Dolly Parton, go read interviews with Dolly Parton. She was once described as a black belt interviewee. So you'll never be disappointed with a Dolly Parton interview. And since I said you'll never be disappointed by a Dolly Parton interview, that has opened up listener mail.

• 1:00:37Speaker 02

  I'm gonna call this great email follow-up from Arcades. Hey, guys, wanted to tell you a story of my very traditional grandmother. She was very traditional in the Midwestern sense, and she was a homemaker.

• 1:00:49Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:00:50Speaker 02

  Kept books for my grandfather's ironworking concern. She didn't tolerate cussing or fussing and was a conservative dresser.

• 1:00:57Josh Clark?

  She liked the calico.

• 1:00:59Speaker 02

  She didn't have any obvious vices, save one: Pac-Man.

• 1:01:03Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah?

• 1:01:04Speaker 02

  To hear her tell it, there was a time where she would wake up before her husband and five children, power up the Atari and start a Pac-Man game. After 30 minutes or so, she would get breakfast on the table, get her family out the door, and do the books, clean the house, and then finally get back to her paused Pac-Man game, which she would play until it was time to start dinner when her family came back home.

• 1:01:23Josh Clark?

  That's awesome. She had Pac-Man fever.

• 1:01:25Speaker 02

  That's good. Wouldn't be much of a story, guys, except here's the thing: she was really, really good at Pac-Man.

• 1:01:31Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah?

• 1:01:32Speaker 02

  She once told me she had the first 40-something levels memorized and could use them to rack up points and then thus extra lives. She got to a point where she could play the same game all day long. Eventually, she would describe getting to a high enough level where the game would freeze.

• 1:01:47Josh Clark?

  Oh.

• 1:01:48Speaker 02

  And what she was describing was Level 256, the kill screen.

• 1:01:50Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:01:51Speaker 02

  But since she was home alone every time she reached it, and the internet wasn't a household thing, no one ever knew what she was talking about.

• 1:01:57Josh Clark?

  She'd just run out the door and be like, "Somebody, anybody, come look!"

• 1:02:02Speaker 02

  It was until many years later that I saw King of Kong and saw the footage of the kill screen my grandmother had described. Couldn't believe my eyes or the fact that my conservative grandmother was such an early skilled gamer.

• 1:02:13Josh Clark?

  That's neat.

• 1:02:14Speaker 02

  She's since passed away, but every time the subject of Pac-Man comes up, brings a smile to my face, and I remember her and her high scores. That is from Aaron Miller of Kansas City, the Kansas side.

• 1:02:26Josh Clark?

  Oh, that's rare. You don't usually hear from those people.

• 1:02:29Speaker 02

  Kansas side.

• 1:02:30Josh Clark?

  Well, thanks a lot, Aaron. That's a fantastic story. I'm glad you could smuggle that message out of the Kansas side of Kansas City to us. And if you want to be like Aaron and get in touch however way you can, try putting it in an email, sending it off to [email protected].

• 1:02:51Speaker 00

  Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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