Selects: Wasps: Not as cute as bees

Wasps have a bad rap. Because their sting really hurts and they don't make honey like their cousins. But they are super cool and you shouldn't kill them. Listen to this classic episode and learn! See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:04Josh Clark?

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• 1:38Speaker 02

  Hi, everybody. Happy Saturday. We are rolling through COVID one episode at a time every other week with me, your host, COVID Chuck. I had it three times, so I can call myself that. August 4th, 2020, middle of the summer during COVID, people are out and about a little bit as far as getting out into nature at this point because it's summertime, but they're still keeping their distance, hopefully still masking up. And hopefully, listening to this episode at the time, wasps, you know what's coming. Colon, not as cute as bees. And you can check that out right now.

• 2:16Speaker 00

  Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio.

• 2:26Josh Clark?

  Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. Jerry's out there somewhere, which makes this Stuff You Should Know.

• 2:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, old school insect a dish from Robert Lamb.

• 2:39Josh Clark?

  I know. It's, it's got mouth parts in it, but it's no Tracy Wilson joint.

• 2:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:45Josh Clark?

  But it's still good. It's super charming. It starts, Robert starts this article out from the perspective of a spider who has been dragged into a wasp's nest and is about to be eaten alive by a wasp larva.

• 3:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:00Josh Clark?

  It's pretty interesting.

• 3:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:02Josh Clark?

  It's a good article, I guess is what I'm trying to say. And if you are not familiar with Robert Lamb, then friends, you are missing out on not one, but two, no, three really great podcasts that that guy has put out. What is it? Stuff to blow your mind.

• 3:17Speaker 02

  Of course, the stalwart science tech, well, not tech, sort of science plus show.

• 3:22Josh Clark?

  Yes. Yeah, yeah. In depth, like super deep rabbit hole, interesting stuff. And then he did one called Transhuman.

• 3:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's a fiction scripted sci fi. Very cool.

• 3:35Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And then also he and Joe, who he does Stuff to Blow Your Mind with, also do invention too, which is kind of an in-depth rabbit hole thing about invention. So check all those out, everybody.

• 3:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was fun to kind of get back to basics with a nice little insect cast on wasps. And dude, I went outside today on my side deck to let the dogs out and low and behold, I looked.

• 4:01Speaker 02

  What?

• 4:02Josh Clark?

  I was, you said, who let the dogs out?

• 4:04Speaker 02

  Oh, sorry.

• 4:04Josh Clark?

  Or you said, let the dogs out. So I had to.

• 4:08Speaker 02

  I thought you were saying, wait, wait, wait.

• 4:09Josh Clark?

  No, no, I was saying, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop.

• 4:14Speaker 02

  Oh, boy. There was a wasp nest on the ground.

• 4:17Josh Clark?

  Okay, good. All right. Sorry, did I, I knock the legs out from under that story?

• 4:22Speaker 02

  Nah, it was just a wasp nest, but it was, you know, the timing of it all.

• 4:25Josh Clark?

  Was it live?

• 4:26Speaker 02

  Oh, I didn't poke it to see it. It was, it was not attached. I think it had fallen. So my guess is that it did not have any more wasps residing in it.

• 4:35Josh Clark?

  Man, that's gotta be a real letdown because it's the middle of summer right now. So they're, they're wanting to like grow. There was probably larvae in there. Huh.

• 4:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:46Josh Clark?

  That's, that's really weird. They must've abandoned it then.

• 4:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, and wasps are, you know, I think, you know, everyone loves the bees now because they should, because bees are awesome and bees produce honey and we want bees to stick around. But I think wasps and hornets, which are a type of wasps, are still just so maligned. And they're the ones that people will reach for their can of Raid to spray.

• 5:13Josh Clark?

  With no qualms.

• 5:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you shouldn't. Don't do it. Let the wasp live. I'll go ahead and say it now. We're going to say it a bunch.

• 5:19Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 5:19Speaker 02

  But let them live.

• 5:21Josh Clark?

  Totally, Chuck. Thank you. Yeah, we're here to open everyone's eyes to the function and purpose of wasps' existence. They're not like mosquitoes. Remember in the mosquitoes episode, we basically concluded that there's no reason for mosquitoes to be around and they just are terrible. Wasps are not like that. And I think Robert does a really good job of basically pinning down why wasps get such a bad rap. One is that their stings pack such a wallop compared to other stinging insects.

• 5:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, it hurts.

• 5:51Josh Clark?

  And we'll talk about their, their stings and the venom that goes along with it, which is so, okay, that's fair. Like, nobody wants to be stung by a wasp. It's really, it can ruin your day. And then also the other thing is, is that if you pay attention to wasps, you realize that they live these really brutal, grizzled existences. They're, they're predators. And in fact, in their habitats, they're apex predators. They're like sharks and lions, but for the bugs and sometimes small animals that live around there, like I didn't watch any of the videos that I could have because I'm just really over animal death, even if it's nature.

• 6:32Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 6:33Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 6:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's Emily.

• 6:35Josh Clark?

  When I was doing the end of the world with Josh Clark, like I went into it just feeling fine about that. It's just nature. That's the way things work. And then one of the guys I talked to is David Pearce, who you and I talked to actually first in our Super Stuff Guide to Happiness.

• 6:49Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 6:50Josh Clark?

  But I went back and interviewed him and his whole jam is like, we could actually eventually engineer the biosphere so that there isn't any suffering among animals and like what we take as natural isn't necessarily have to be that way.

• 7:05Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 7:06Josh Clark?

  And it's really changed how I view like violence even among animals. So anyway, the upshot is I didn't watch any videos, but one of the ones that I saw, the title was wasp kills baby bird. So that video is out there if you want to see that, but I just can't. I don't, I don't like to see that stuff anymore, you know?

• 7:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:25Josh Clark?

  I mean, I didn't really like enjoy it before, but now it just downright bothers me.

• 7:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I get it. That's, I live with a person who can't watch anything like that, so I get it.

• 7:36Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 7:37Speaker 02

  So there are more than 20,000 species of wasp. And like I said, hornets are a kind of wasp. So if you hear, I mean, you would call a hornet, a hornet, but you can't necessarily use them interchangeably, but a hornet is a wasp. And there's a lot of, you know, over that 20,000 species, there are a lot of different kinds and a lot of variety as far as what they look like and what they're shaped like and what color they are and how they like to live their life. But as with every insect cast, we're going to go over those body parts.

• 8:10Josh Clark?

  Sure. And. Cause mouth parts is in there somewhere.

• 8:13Speaker 02

  And it starts with exoskeleton, just like all the little insect buddies have that chitin exoskeleton. And in the case of the wasp, they are very segmented out. They have three segments. You get your head, which has got those antennae, the sensory antennae. You have those mouth parts because they lick and they bite. And then you have the very cool looking compound eyes and simple eyes, these sort of kidney shaped eyes of a wasp that are very sort of signature.

• 8:46Josh Clark?

  What are they known as in your Italian accent?

• 8:49Speaker 02

  Ocelli.

• 8:51Josh Clark?

  So if in the Italian, if a vowel follows a C.

• 8:56Speaker 02

  Ocelli?

• 8:56Josh Clark?

  Chuh. Yeah, it makes a chuh sound. If a C is followed by an H, it makes a cuh sound.

• 9:02Speaker 02

  So is this really pronounced ocelli?

• 9:05Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 9:05Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 9:06Josh Clark?

  I think in, in like among biologists, they probably say ocelli, but since you were doing the accent.

• 9:11Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 9:12Josh Clark?

  I wanted to set you up for a lesson in Italian.

• 9:14Speaker 02

  Appreciate that.

• 9:17Josh Clark?

  Okay, so you've got the head, has some eyes. Also has a brain, Chuck.

• 9:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:21Josh Clark?

  Which I saw supposedly wasps are among the smarter insects out there. They can recognize each other by face, by facial markings. Did you know that?

• 9:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. Hey, Steve, how you doing? Sting anyone?

• 9:34Josh Clark?

  I'm doing okay, Ted. Thanks for asking. Just killed the baby bird. Some weirdo was, was filming it and put it on the internet.

• 9:40Speaker 02

  Well, actually Steve would say, no, I didn't sting anyone because I'm a man and I don't sting.

• 9:47Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah, that's a really great point, Chuck, which we'll talk more about later. You'd find the stinger in the abdomen, which is the third part, the lowest part of the, the wasp's body, but only in a female, which I think this is true for, for bees too, if I'm not mistaken.

• 10:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, don't remember. We've done a lot of good bee stuff.

• 10:07Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 10:07Speaker 02

  And then in between those things, you've got the thorax, which has the six little legs and then those, those really quick flapping wings.

• 10:16Josh Clark?

  Yeah. So in, in between the thorax and the abdomen, you have a very narrow waist, which usually is what gives away a wasp. You can look at it and be like, that's a wasp.

• 10:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:26Josh Clark?

  It's like it's got a corset on, unless it's a hornet. Hornets are much chunkier, more rotund.

• 10:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:32Josh Clark?

  But they are, like you said, a kind of wasp.

• 10:37Josh Clark?

  And actually, I think the genus that hornets fall under is called Vespa. And Vespa in Italian means wasp. So hornets are wasps in Italian.

• 10:52Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 10:53Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 10:54Speaker 02

  So I think one of the coolest thing about the wasp is the history and the evolution of this thing, along with some pretty horrific stuff that's going to follow. But about in the Cretaceous period, about 100 million years ago, you had to kind of take a snapshot of planet Earth to understand how the wasp forms. And back then, they didn't have all these flowering plants like we have now. There were a lot of conifers and these evergreens depended on the wind to spread their seed around. They weren't counting on the insects to do this kind of thing at this point. And we should also mention that ants are a cousin of the wasp, which makes sense. They look kind of ant-like.

• 11:36Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I think they finally figured out that ants evolved out of mud daubers. They're their closest relative.

• 11:44Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 11:46Josh Clark?

  Which kind of makes sense. I think they have some ant-like behavior.

• 11:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, ant-like. So the age of the, during the Cretaceous period, these wasps were carnivores and they preyed on spiders and other insects. And as plants started to evolve, they realized that, hey, there's a lot of insects flying around, going back and forth. Like, we're just using the wind to carry our seed around. Why don't we, why don't we get these insects to work for us, basically? And they can do the job.

• 12:18Josh Clark?

  Yeah, so that was the rise of the angiosperms, which is, you know, whenever you think of a flower that the bee visits and moves from place to place carrying pollen, that's what an angiosperm is. Rather than having to just depend on the wind, you can depend on the insects. And so eventually, over time, these wasps, these early predators that used to feed exclusively on other insects, said, well, you know what? This, this whole nectar thing and the pollen thing, I can get with this. So they started to change their diet from insects to pollen and nectar. But the weird thing is, is rather than developing a way to feed their young from pollen and

• 13:01Josh Clark?

  nectar, like honeybees, which I think is another reason people like bees and don't really realizes it, realize it.

• 13:08Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 13:09Josh Clark?

  Is that they're little vegetarian, vegan animals.

• 13:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, maybe.

• 13:15Josh Clark?

  You know? They don't hurt anybody. They'll, they'll defend themselves, but they don't want to go hurt anybody. They're very peaceful. Wasps are not like that because even though they generally, most species of wasp adults eat nectar and pollen, they still kill other insects to drag back to their nests to feed their young, to raise their young on. So wasps are technically omnivores. At the beginning of their life, they're carnivores, and then later in life, they grow into herbivores.

• 13:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, isn't that amazing?

• 13:43Josh Clark?

  It is. Wasps are way more amazing than I realized.

• 13:47Speaker 02

  Should we take a break and talk about their stinger?

• 13:49Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 13:50Speaker 02

  All right, we'll be right back for Stinger Talk.

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• 17:28Speaker 02

  All right, welcome to Stinger Talk. I'm Chuck.

• 17:33Josh Clark?

  I'm Josh. I'm, wait, no, I'm Ted.

• 17:36Speaker 02

  I guess that makes me Steve.

• 17:38Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 17:39Speaker 02

  Wasp stings are tough. You kind of mentioned early on, it's, you know, you get a yellow jacket and that, that's, that doesn't feel great. And obviously, we're talking about if you're non-allergic and it's not like a legitimate threat to your health, and it's just the pain of the sting that we're rating here. Yellow jacket sting isn't great, but a wasp sting and a hornet sting is really something else. It's, it, I feel like it hurts more and for longer.

• 18:07Josh Clark?

  And for good reason, because it actually does. Like bee venom is its own thing, shares a lot in common with wasp venom. Wasp venom seems to be this extraordinarily highly-developed, like biological weapon that is this cocktail of different kinds of compounds that all come together to produce a horrible pain sensation that lasts longer and has a greater impact on your body than anything the actual sting produces. And that's apparently the whole reason behind it, is it makes the wasps seem way less vulnerable than they actually are.

• 18:49Josh Clark?

  It seems like they're way more powerful, and for all intents and purposes, they are. But like, if you, if you could take the venom out of the sting, the sting would, would do basically nothing to you. But because that, the venom is introduced by that sting, that venom is so potent, it's like one of the worst things in the world to get stung by a wasp.

• 19:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, and the actual stinger itself was, has a pretty remarkable evolutionary story. So here's what happens. In the prehistoric times, this parasitic wasp would use this ovipositor, that's actually, you know, the egg-laying organ. They would use this pointy thing to lay the egg on a living insect. Like, they would lay the egg on the caterpillar, then these little larvae would hatch out, and then they would eat that caterpillar, the larvae would. So at some point, as things are evolving along, Mother Nature says, you know what would be even better than this? Is if you could saw open that caterpillar with this ovipositor and lay eggs inside of this thing. And that's exactly what happened.

• 19:51Josh Clark?

  Right. Which made a lot of sense, and I think there's a lot of wasp species, or there's at least some, that still do this. Like, rather than build a nest, they just go find an insect host and lay some eggs on it, or lay some eggs in it, and then just let the larvae eat the, eat the inside out. But most, I think, have evolved to kind of use some different techniques, which we'll talk about in a little bit. But the, the stinger itself stuck around even after it stopped being used to actually deposit eggs into the insects directly.

• 20:26Speaker 02

  That's right. And you talked about the venom, that's obviously produced in the venom gland, stored in a little venom sac, a little burlap sac inside the wasp body. And then it seeps out, it's got, it's a barbless stinger, it's just like a straight little pointy thing, but it seeps out through these little valves and coats the entire stinger. And so they store this stinger inside of a sheath and are always kind of ready to use it. And, you know, like we said, it's only the females, because it was an ovipositor, but the males can pretend like, like, they'll rear their little butt your way and say, stay away from me, you don't know if I'm a male or a female, right? You don't want to look too closely, right?

• 21:05Josh Clark?

  Right, which is just hilarious. But also, didn't that show like a certain level of intelligence as well?

• 21:10Speaker 02

  I think so.

• 21:12Josh Clark?

  Or at the very least, there's

• 21:13Speaker 02

  To bluff?

• 21:14Josh Clark?

  Some, yeah, to bluff.

• 21:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:16Josh Clark?

  You know? That's, that takes intelligence.

• 21:20Josh Clark?

  Which is, I think, another indicator that wasps are amazing.

• 21:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, and like you sort of hinted at, the reason this venom is so powerful is it has a couple of functions, is one is just the simple function of paralyzing those insects, and the other is a defense, like, it's meant to sting something much, much larger, and have that thing hurt so bad that it thinks it's hurt a lot worse than it is, and like, just wants to get out of there, basically.

• 21:50Josh Clark?

  Right, and then that combined with, they're usually very bright colorings, because you know usually the more colorful an animal is, the more toxic it is.

• 21:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:00Josh Clark?

  It's just kind of a universal symbol in nature, to just steer clear, and hornets and wasps typically are fairly colorful, as far as insects go, so those two things combined can teach a larger animal pretty quickly to just leave them alone, and that's kind of how wasps have made it this long, I mean, they've been around for more than 100 million years, you know?

• 22:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:24Josh Clark?

  That's a pretty successful species or family of insects.

• 22:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that includes humans, obviously, if

• 22:31Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 22:31Speaker 02

  If you go poking around a hornet's nest, or a wasp's nest, and you get stung, you're not gonna finish the job, you know, you're probably just gonna get out of there.

• 22:40Josh Clark?

  Yeah, yeah, hopefully, you can learn your lesson that first time, you know?

• 22:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:44Josh Clark?

  Or maybe you don't even have to learn it directly, you can just know to stay away from the wasp.

• 22:49Speaker 02

  So what's in that venom?

• 22:51Josh Clark?

  Oh, some really good stuff, I actually found even more stuff than Robert included here.

• 22:55Speaker 02

  Ooh.

• 22:56Josh Clark?

  There's some peptides and some enzymes, some of the enzymes include phospholipase

• 23:05Josh Clark?

  A and B, phospholipase A and B, and these actually break down the membrane lipid coating of cells in your body, to basically spill their guts into your bloodstream, and that includes neurons, neural cells can be spilled into your bloodstream when they encounter this peptide, which sends a excruciating pain notification to your brain, saying, "Alert, alert, you're in a tremendous amount of pain."

• 23:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:35Josh Clark?

  That's just like, step one.

• 23:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, they also have norepinephrine in there, which stops the blood flow temporarily, and that's why, like, when I said it feels like it lasts longer, I feel like that's the norepinephrine at work, because it just sort of sits in one place, and eventually the bloodstream is gonna kind of dilute it away, but it kind of hangs out there for a little while.

• 23:59Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's just mean, there's also acetylcholine, which actually goes to your pain receptors and stimulates them, right?

• 24:09Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 24:09Josh Clark?

  And there's also histamines, and histamines are released by your body, they're responsible for the inflammatory response, but they also, the venom in a wasp's venom includes histamines directly, too, just to make sure that it gets that inflammation good and primed.

• 24:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then there's, I was hoping you would take this part because of that word, you wanna try it?

• 24:36Josh Clark?

  Hyaluranidase?

• 24:37Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 24:39Josh Clark?

  I use hyaluronic acid under my eyes, so I'm

• 24:42Speaker 02

  Oh, do you really?

• 24:42Josh Clark?

  Familiar.

• 24:43Speaker 02

  Sure. What's that?

• 24:46Josh Clark?

  It's like, it's an acid

• 24:48Speaker 02

  What's it for?

• 24:49Josh Clark?

  You put it under your eyes, I don't know, I think for bags and

• 24:53Speaker 02

  Oh, like eye bags?

• 24:54Josh Clark?

  Just to generally keep, yeah, yeah, yeah, just to keep your eyes looking sharp.

• 24:57Speaker 02

  Oh, wow, I noticed your eyes always look so sharp.

• 25:00Josh Clark?

  I thought you'd notice eventually.

• 25:03Speaker 02

  So, that thing that you just talked about, and then something called

• 25:07Josh Clark?

  Hyaluranidase?

• 25:08Speaker 02

  MCDP, mast cell degranulating peptide, this stuff actually melts through the connective tissue between cells, and basically just sort of, it destroys those membranes and allows the venom to move a little more freely than it would ordinarily.

• 25:24Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and the mast cell degranulating peptide, degranulating means that it basically goes to your mast cells and squeezes the histamines out of them, so not only does it contain histamines already, not only does it trigger a histamine response or release, it goes and gets it out of the cells that normally carry it around in your immune system, so it's just really mean nasty stuff, one of the other things I saw that they've just started to kind of pay attention to is called Brady Keenan, and it's associated with chronic pain, so

• 26:02Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 26:02Josh Clark?

  On top of acute pain production, they're like, how about a little dose of what it feels like to have chronic pain, too, in the mix of all of this stuff, and then Chuck, tell me this isn't astounding, I got a couple more, one thing is just called antigen 5, which is as cryptic as it comes, they don't know exactly what role it plays, but they know it's a very powerful allergen, and then there's a couple of peptides that are antimicrobial, which prevent the wasp from contracting an infection from a prey that it puts its stinger in.

• 26:35Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 26:36Josh Clark?

  Yeah, isn't that amazing, like, this is some amazing stuff.

• 26:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I didn't see, I saw that hornets can sting again and again and again, but I don't know about the wasp in general, is that the case?

• 26:49Josh Clark?

  Yes, definitely.

• 26:49Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 26:51Josh Clark?

  Because a hornet is just a type of wasp, so you've got like mud daubers, the kind of wasp, a hornet is a kind of wasp, and there's like, many types of hornets, but they're all wasps.

• 27:00Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 27:02Josh Clark?

  You know, so yeah, they can sting again and again and again, which apparently is another reason why their sting hurts so bad, they can do this to you and inject this venom into you, I saw one expert interviewed on a different How Stuff Works article, that said, an average of 10 times, like, if you get stung by a wasp, usually you're gonna get stung more than once, and it can be 10 times, I guess, on average, I don't know if they just pulled that out of the air, but they were a wasp expert, so hopefully not.

• 27:29Speaker 02

  Well, you know those murder hornets that are making the news these days in the States? Those things can kill small rodents with a full charge of a sting.

• 27:39Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 27:40Speaker 02

  The Asian giant hornet, which they found, I think, I think three of them in the Pacific Northwest, that they thought they got rid of last year, but it turns out they survived the winter, a queen did, and, you know, they call them murder hornets because they kill bees, and those, I didn't know this, it was a big, because it was just sort of a back page thing, but in 2016, a package of murder hornets was intercepted at San Francisco International Airport.

• 28:09Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm, I saw that, too.

• 28:10Speaker 02

  And they destroyed that, so it didn't become a thing, but they're a real threat to bees, so that's why people are sort of writing about murder hornets now invading, as an invasive species here in the US.

• 28:22Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and I mean, like, it's really doing an injustice to the hornets, unfortunately, because calling them murder hornets, like, if you read some of the articles on it, like, people will say outright, like, you know, they can kill people very easily, and that's just absolutely not true, and it makes it sound like they're a threat to humans, like you said, the big threat is to honeybees, and specifically is to European honeybees, because they haven't evolved around murder hornets, or Asian giant hornets, Asian honeybees have, and they actually have a defense to where, when the giant hornets show up, like you were saying, they just, like, murder hornet is a good term if you're a honeybee,

• 29:04Josh Clark?

  because just a few of them showing up at a hive can just destroy a colony in a few hours, and they do it in a really brutal way, they like, they decapitate the bees, and just kill an entire colony in a few hours, and they do it because they're one of the few species that, they're omnivorous, but most of their food comes from meat, they're mostly carnivores, so they're eating

• 29:29Speaker 02

  Human babies?

• 29:30Josh Clark?

  All of these bees, basically, they, yeah, they just carry your baby right off out of its crib, but they can wipe out a whole colony like this, if they run into an Asian honeybee colony, those bees have developed a response where they'll swarm around one of the Asian giant hornets, and they'll flap their wings a bunch, and generate heat, and they'll cook the hornet alive inside the swarm, that's their defense, European honeybees, which make up a lot of the honeybees, most of the honeybees in the United States, they don't have that defense, so it's a big problem if the Asian giant hornet gets a foothold here.

• 30:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it will pack a lot more of a punch, too, they have about seven times potency as a honeybee's venom, and as far as the pain scale, they likened it, getting stung by a murder hornet is, they likened it to like, between three and 10, like, if you were to be stung by three to 10 yellow jackets all at once.

• 30:31Josh Clark?

  So awful.

• 30:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:32Josh Clark?

  Because a yellow jacket sting is nothing to sneeze at either, I mean, that's a kind of wasp, you know?

• 30:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't get, I haven't been stung in a long, long time, knock wood.

• 30:40Josh Clark?

  Knock on wood, I got stung a couple summers ago.

• 30:43Speaker 02

  I'm not allergic or anything, but, you know, my story, I told it back with the bee thing, was when I was hiking that time, and I got tagged 11 times in the face and neck.

• 30:53Josh Clark?

  Oh, man.

• 30:53Speaker 02

  When I stumbled, it was one of those underground hives, that I just walked over, and, you know, you see two or three bees, you're like, oh, what's going on, then you see 10, and then all of a sudden, they're everywhere, and you're just running like a moron through the woods, toward the river, basically, but, yeah, I got hit 11 times, and, you know, that could have killed me if I was allergic, out in the middle of nowhere like that.

• 31:19Josh Clark?

  Sure, I thought you were allergic, so we just lied on the episode of the Stuff You Should Know TV show?

• 31:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was painful, there was one, I think that got the deepest on my eyebrow bone, my orbital bone, and it went straight through, and I could, I could almost feel it on my bone, and that's the one, like, I had a hard time getting it out, it was so embedded, and it felt like somebody, and I know I used the same analogy back then, but it felt like somebody had a tiny little, you know the little nails you hang pictures with, felt like somebody had that poking that bone, and they were just tapping it with a hammer, in this like, regular beat.

• 31:59Josh Clark?

  That is awful.

• 32:00Speaker 02

  It was terrible.

• 32:01Josh Clark?

  Man alive, yeah, it sounds like you stepped on a yellow jacket nest, because they nest in the ground.

• 32:08Speaker 02

  And they follow you, too, like, they were gonna come after me

• 32:12Josh Clark?

  Where are you going, huh?

• 32:14Speaker 02

  Uh, I think we should take a break, maybe, and talk about nesting right after this?

• 32:19Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 32:34Josh Clark?

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• 32:56Josh Clark?

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• 33:43Josh Clark?

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• 34:02Josh Clark?

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• 34:43Josh Clark?

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• 34:59Speaker 03

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• 35:27Josh Clark?

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• 35:56Josh Clark?

  Okay, Chuck. So we're moving on from venom. I think we made our point. Venom from wasps is pretty serious. And if you want to avoid getting injected with venom from wasps, you want to learn to know what a wasp nest looks like so you can avoid the wasp nest altogether. Because some wasps are more aggressive than others. And if you get anywhere near their nest, they're going to be like, let me just give you a little lesson about getting close to my nest. And they'll sting you, right?

• 36:25Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 36:26Josh Clark?

  You want to get away. So the kinds of nests that you see hanging from trees, that's a kind of wasp nest. It's a paper wasp nest. There's mud dauber nests. There's nests in the ground that are yellow jacket nests. Wasps make a bunch of different kinds of nests. And for you to survive in the world, you have to know what each one looks like and be able to sense them out with your nose.

• 36:53Speaker 03

  Yeah. When I think of wasp nests, in Georgia at least, I think of that honeycomb style, where it's just a bunch of little tiny holes. And it looks like it's made out of paper, because it kind of is, in a way.

• 37:08Josh Clark?

  Yeah. I think those are bald-faced hornets or wasps. I can't remember which one.

• 37:15Speaker 03

  I think those are the wasps.

• 37:16Josh Clark?

  And they actually chew up wood fragments that they'll get from, say, like your deck. Or if your kid only has those old-timey wood toys, they might chew those up if they're in the yard. And then they take that and turn it into actual pulp, like paper. And they spit it out and make basically a paper mache nest.

• 37:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:34Josh Clark?

  Which is pretty impressive. But that's why those things look like they're paper mache, because they basically are.

• 37:39Speaker 03

  Yeah. And they're light, like paper mache. And they're fairly intricate. If you look at them, they have, some of them have what looks like little roof eaves.

• 37:49Speaker 03

  They can be, they're, like I said, super light, so they can be dangling from a really small sort of thread-like,

• 37:57Speaker 03

  I don't even know what you would call it, just a...

• 38:00Josh Clark?

  Thread?

• 38:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, sort of like thread, I guess.

• 38:02Josh Clark?

  Suspension cable?

• 38:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, suspension cable, exactly.

• 38:05Josh Clark?

  We'll go with that. Because it sounds like it's a little sturdier. Although, is that the kind that you found in your yard today?

• 38:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:11Josh Clark?

  When you let the dogs out?

• 38:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, I found one of those laying on the ground. When I was a kid, you know, the big hornets nests that are the big sort of,

• 38:22Speaker 03

  also sort of looks like paper mache, but it's more gray and it doesn't have the little holes. It's just got one central entry point. And it's about as big as a football.

• 38:31Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 38:32Speaker 03

  Those were sort of like country decor. Did you ever know anyone who had one of those in their house?

• 38:37Josh Clark?

  Yes, murderers, serial killers.

• 38:40Speaker 03

  We'd had one. My dad climbed up a tree to get one of these. It was emptied, thank goodness.

• 38:46Speaker 03

  And we had that thing, you know, mounted on a log above our fireplace for years.

• 38:51Josh Clark?

  Really?

• 38:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was weird.

• 38:52Josh Clark?

  Wow, that's fascinating.

• 38:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:54Josh Clark?

  I don't remember which kind that is. And I, I mean, I've looked at so much stuff about wasps.

• 38:59Speaker 03

  I think it was the white-faced hornet, if I'm not mistaken.

• 39:02Josh Clark?

  Okay, is that who it is? All right.

• 39:03Speaker 03

  Who are very aggressive.

• 39:04Josh Clark?

  Get pretty big and they're...

• 39:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:05Josh Clark?

  Yes. And they're big. The, like you said, the size of a football, their nests can get pretty big. But yeah, they, that's a good one to avoid. I didn't realize that they were aggressive, huh?

• 39:17Speaker 03

  Yeah. You don't want to mess around with one of those nests. You don't want to go poking it.

• 39:22Josh Clark?

  From what I saw, though, mud daubers, which actually make theirs out of mud, they're the ones that, you know, those tubes that usually come down from like the ceiling down the wall? Those are actually mud tubes that the mud dauber has made. And mud daubers, we should say, there are basically two kinds of wasps in the world, wasps and hornets, social and solitary. And solitary is exactly what it sounds like. They, it's just a single wasp, a female, living on her own. She'll mate with some male wasp and then go off, make her own nest, either burrowing into the ground. Or if she's a mud dauber, she'll make a mud nest. So when you see a mud dauber's nest, like, stop and be like, I respect that. Because that was made by one single wasp on her own,

• 40:06Josh Clark?

  with zero help whatsoever. She made that nest, which I just find extremely impressive, by chewing up mud and just slowly but surely building it, spinning mud out onto the wall.

• 40:18Speaker 03

  Yeah. And if you're a social wasp, you are, it's sort of bee-like in that they're working for the queen. Maybe more than one queen even. But you have these male drones that are there to mate. And you have these female workers who build the nest and they hunt for food and tend to these little larvae. But it's basically all about getting the queen to live through the winter to the next season. Like, they will all leave the nest. And I think, I think the queen is the only thing that overwinters. Isn't that right?

• 40:49Josh Clark?

  Yeah, yeah. The queen, yeah. If they raise queen larvae, the queen will, will live until the next winter and start over again, basically creating eggs of sterile female workers to help her to hatch and then help her build up the hive, raise male drones. Or no, is the drone the worker? No, drone's a male that's just used for reproduction, right?

• 41:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:14Josh Clark?

  And then eventually raise little queens. So it's pretty, pretty interesting, especially as far as like social insects go. There are very few species of social wasps and hornets. But the ones they are, that are pretty, they're, they're highly social, even among like social insects. They have pretty intricate, complex societies. Like, some of these, the social wasp nests, I think, including yellow jackets, will have multiple queens. And there's one head queen who has basically beaten up other queens to establish her dominance. And then she'll have the most eggs. And then the next layer down will have the second most eggs and so on and so forth.

• 41:58Josh Clark?

  And that takes like a certain amount of cooperation to maintain and respect that type of hierarchy to keep that society functioning the way it should, especially considering you have to reinvent the wheel every year after winter comes and goes.

• 42:12Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And they talk to each other, too, in a way. They communicate, especially if there's a threat via pheromones. So that's why you are more likely to get swarmed, rather than just, like, if you're an actual threat to a, to a nest, they can send a signal that says, hey, everybody, this jerk over here's got a, this kid has got a stick and he's coming at us.

• 42:36Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 42:36Speaker 03

  Let's get him.

• 42:36Josh Clark?

  And if they, if they die, actually, they release that. It's like a byproduct of their death is releasing that same pheromone.

• 42:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, man down.

• 42:44Josh Clark?

  Basically, they turn into like Harry Dean Stanton in Red Dawn, where they're like, avenge me.

• 42:53Speaker 03

  I guess.

• 42:53Josh Clark?

  I have that one written down.

• 42:55Speaker 03

  I guess you didn't see the, uh, the video then of the, the tarantula hawk? Since you're not into those.

• 43:02Josh Clark?

  No, but I've seen one in person, actually.

• 43:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, the Pepsis wasp is known as the tarantula hawk because they lay eggs inside of a paralyzed tarantula. And the larvae eat the tarantula from the inside out. And I was like, I gotta, gotta see this. And of course, on YouTube, there is a Pepsis wasp battling it out with a tarantula. And it's no match. Uh, and it paralyzes this tarantula and drags him back like a great distance.

• 43:33Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 43:33Speaker 03

  You see a wasp pulling this tarantula across the ground.

• 43:37Josh Clark?

  Which is much, much, much larger. But the tarantula, like you said, is no match. And even among humans, I think the tarantula hawk's sting is like a four out of four on the Schmidt pain scale. Like it's as bad as it gets.

• 43:53Speaker 03

  Cause you know, I've asked Mr. Schmidt, how bad's that hurt? And he's like, oh my gosh, it's terrible.

• 43:58Josh Clark?

  He said, yeah. But yes, and they're very bright blue and orange too, which is another,

• 44:06Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 44:06Josh Clark?

  Another indicator, like stay away. If you see anything that's really colorful, just assume it can, it can mess you up pretty good.

• 44:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, don't lick that.

• 44:13Josh Clark?

  The tarantula hawk, that's the case.

• 44:14Speaker 03

  Don't lick that colorful frog.

• 44:16Josh Clark?

  So, but even if they, even if it's not a wasp taking down a tarantula and laying eggs inside it that eat the tarantula from the inside out. Almost all wasp species, if not 100% of wasp species. They, like we said, they raise their young by, by paralyzing other insects, dragging them to their nest and laying the eggs nearby, leaving the bug to be paralyzed and still alive when the egg hatches and larvae crawls over and starts eating that bug alive. And this is one reason why wasps have such a bad rap, because it's just such a brutal.

• 44:51Speaker 03

  It's like a horror movie.

• 44:52Josh Clark?

  Circle of life. It really is. Yeah. Especially from the perspective of the, the insect. And apparently Charles Darwin said, um, when he witnessed this happening to a cute little caterpillar, that it made it difficult for him to believe in an omnipresent and beneficent God. Because what kind of God would allow a poor, a cute little caterpillar to do that?

• 45:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:13Josh Clark?

  The thing is, is Charles Darwin, I mean, he liked to putz around in the garden, but he was not a farmer. If you're a farmer, you probably kind of happy to see a wasp larva eating a caterpillar because

• 45:24Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 45:24Josh Clark?

  Caterpillars eat your crops. And if you ask me, um, this is where we get to the part about the, the roles that wasps play in the ecosystem and why you shouldn't just go willy nilly killing them.

• 45:35Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, they'll bring in wasps, uh, farmers will sometimes if they have like a, a insect issue, because the wasp is going to take care of that naturally. And you won't have to use, you know, insecticide and stuff like that.

• 45:49Josh Clark?

  No, so plus also bees are usually kind of finicky, I saw as far as what they'll pollinate and what they won't. Wasps are not at all finicky. They'll pollinate whatever. So they're non-selected pollinators, which makes them, like you could use them to pollinate any kind of crop, which makes them pretty helpful. And so they control other crop destroying insects. And they also pollinate crops too. So they are pretty useful. So that means that you shouldn't just go around killing them. I think we should say it again.

• 46:18Speaker 03

  No, you shouldn't, uh, kill anything except mosquitoes, fleas and ticks.

• 46:23Josh Clark?

  And you also can't say, well, they're, they're a threat to humans. Cause I looked up some stats, Chuck. You ready for this?

• 46:29Speaker 03

  Yeah. You're not going to get killed with, from a wasp, are you?

• 46:32Josh Clark?

  No. I mean, yeah, but no, you're not. So combined bees, wasps and hornets, and hornets are just another type of wasp.

• 46:41Speaker 03

  Is that so?

• 46:43Josh Clark?

  Yeah. I hadn't heard. They kill about 62 Americans every year from anaphylactic shock, right?

• 46:51Speaker 03

  Oh, wow.

• 46:51Josh Clark?

  By contrast, 300 Americans die from falling off of ladders every year.

• 46:58Josh Clark?

  In the UK, get this, between 2006 and 2007, eight people died from bees, wasps or hornet stings. I'm including bees here, by the way. And then in Australia, where you would guess that half the human population is killed off every year by bees and wasps and has to regenerate every spring. No, between 2000 and 2013, there were only 27 deaths total for the, that 13 years from bees, wasps and hornet stings. Which is pretty astounding, but it all goes to say like, don't listen to the murder hornet rap. The hornets and the wasps aren't out to kill you. They don't want you anywhere near their nests, but they're not like trying to, to wipe out your family. They just want to be left alone, basically.

• 47:42Speaker 03

  The murder hornet rap?

• 47:44Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 47:44Speaker 03

  Now here is a hornet and it's here to say, I come to kill bees.

• 47:48Josh Clark?

  I love fruity pebbles in a major way.

• 47:51Speaker 03

  Uh, I think, I can't wait to re-listen to this one, because I'm pretty sure you said that they kill 62 million Americans every year.

• 47:59Josh Clark?

  No.

• 48:00Speaker 03

  I think you did. I might've been hearing things. It might've been a computer glitch.

• 48:04Josh Clark?

  Just 62.

• 48:05Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 48:05Josh Clark?

  Six to the two.

• 48:08Speaker 03

  I, I really am curious on, uh, if you said million, so.

• 48:11Josh Clark?

  We'll find out.

• 48:12Speaker 03

  That'll be an Easter egg for us only. Uh, so yeah, don't kill the wasps. If you have what you think is a wasp problem at your house, you really don't unless it's, you know, I mean, if you have a really big wasp nest, like right above your front door or something, I could see maybe a case being made for removing it, uh, having it professionally removed.

• 48:36Josh Clark?

  Or if your kids are playing out back and there's a sinkhole from a yellow jackets underground nest.

• 48:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:41Josh Clark?

  Hundreds of yellow jackets.

• 48:42Speaker 03

  And if you're allergic.

• 48:43Josh Clark?

  I could see getting that removed too.

• 48:45Speaker 03

  But in general, like wasps aren't after you. They don't want anything to do with you. They're not aggressive toward humans unless you come poke in their thing with a stick. I love this, Robert says, and this takes like nerves of steel. And he's like, if one lands on you, uh, don't panic. Avoid swatting it or making swift movements. Just kind of sit there and it'll quickly fly off. Like I, I don't want to kill a wasp, but if a wasp lands on my arm, I'm not going to be like, all right, little fella, you're just, just going to give you some time.

• 49:17Josh Clark?

  Go mosey along.

• 49:18Speaker 03

  No, I would, I would freak out and flail. I wouldn't swat at it. Cause I feel like I would get stung for sure, but I would definitely.

• 49:24Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 49:25Speaker 03

  Do a, you know, ah.

• 49:28Josh Clark?

  Right. You gotta try not to do that. You have to listen to Robert and, and don't panic.

• 49:32Speaker 03

  Good luck.

• 49:34Josh Clark?

  Every time I see, don't panic in the wild, I just assume that it's a reference to the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, don't you?

• 49:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think so.

• 49:42Josh Clark?

  So there's, there's standing still, that's one thing when one lands on you. Um, okay, that's, that's great. Things you can do to keep them from landing on you though, or to not wear white and yellow outdoors.

• 49:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:56Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 49:56Speaker 03

  I like white and yellow.

• 49:58Josh Clark?

  They, uh, white, or yellow doesn't look good on me anyway. But those colors attract insects. You don't want to wear perfume because you may confuse them into thinking you're a flower.

• 50:09Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 50:10Josh Clark?

  If you have your garbage can uncovered, don't stand next to it. You want to cover your garbage can.

• 50:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, especially if you're us. We gotta, we got the stink. I always call it the stinkiest garbage can in Atlanta. I think it's so nasty.

• 50:25Josh Clark?

  Ours is pretty bad too.

• 50:27Speaker 03

  It's a lot of years of cat litter.

• 50:29Josh Clark?

  Oh yeah, that's a stink.

• 50:30Speaker 03

  Dog poop.

• 50:32Josh Clark?

  And then you, uh, you, oh, you can take down nests yourself if it's below 60 degrees Fahrenheit or 15.5 degrees Celsius, because they're probably dead in there anyway. So it's a good time to take it down. But for the most part, we're just going to go ahead and say, don't take down a wasp nest that you want out of your yard by yourself. Just don't do it.

• 50:55Speaker 03

  Nah.

• 50:55Josh Clark?

  Hire a professional. There are people who will take money in exchange for coming to, to get a nest out of your yard. You can give them money for that and they know what they're doing. So you can feel good about that, about hiring them. And it also supports local business too.

• 51:12Speaker 03

  Yeah. And don't get that, uh, wasp spray that sprays from like 20 feet away and just go home and like attack these nests with poison. Just don't do it.

• 51:25Josh Clark?

  No.

• 51:25Speaker 03

  Stop killing things.

• 51:28Josh Clark?

  What else you got? I got one more thing. You have anything else?

• 51:30Speaker 03

  Nope.

• 51:31Josh Clark?

  Okay. So in Japan, it always circles back to Japan, doesn't it, Chuck?

• 51:36Speaker 03

  Yeah. If, if it's quality and good.

• 51:39Josh Clark?

  Including their, um, including the Asian giant wasp as well as yellow jackets and some other types of wasps. Japanese culture or culinary culture loves wasp larva. But to get wasp larva, you have to go out in the wild, find a wasp's nest in the summer and then take it back home without getting stung and raise the larvae yourself. And then when they're ready to go, you harvest them and eat them in the fall, which is pretty interesting in and of itself, right?

• 52:11Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 52:12Josh Clark?

  It gets even more interesting than that, because to find a wasp nest in the woods, what they do is they take raw fish. Japanese love raw fish, but they share some of theirs with, um, wasps. And they leave it out as bait. And then when a wasp shows up, they'll take chopsticks and a little hunk of this, this fish meat that they have a string tied to, and they'll hand it to the wasp. And the wasp will fly off with the hunk of fish to take back to its larva, its eggs, with the string dangling, which makes it easier to follow back to the nest. And after doing this a few times, they're probably successful enough that they track the wasp all the way back. They don't lose it and they find the nest. And then that's when they take it home and tend to the larva. And then they eat it in the fall.

• 52:54Speaker 03

  That sounds familiar for some reason. I might've heard that before.

• 52:58Josh Clark?

  Isn't that cool?

• 52:58Speaker 03

  It's amazing.

• 53:00Josh Clark?

  Amazing. Well, that's all I've got for wasp, Chuck.

• 53:04Speaker 03

  Wasp out.

• 53:06Josh Clark?

  So, uh, since Chuck said wasps out, that means it's time for listener mail.

• 53:12Speaker 03

  I'm gonna call this, Adam, I think you were wrong and Josh was referencing They Might Be Giants. It's a long-winded title.

• 53:21Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 53:22Speaker 03

  Hey, guys, in your episode, How We Almost Got Rid of Polio, you read a listener mail that referred to how flamethrowers work, uh, episode. However, I'm somewhat sad that the reference wasn't made for the They Might Be Giants song, Istanbul, not Constantinople. Josh made this statement and it was a wonderful wasted opportunity. Well, that's exactly what you're talking about, right?

• 53:44Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I said not Constantinople.

• 53:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, but you were talking about the They Might Be Giants song, right?

• 53:50Josh Clark?

  Yeah, of course.

• 53:51Speaker 03

  You just didn't.

• 53:52Josh Clark?

  This guy doesn't get me.

• 53:52Speaker 03

  You just didn't say, hey, by the way, that's the They Might Be Giants song.

• 53:56Josh Clark?

  Hey, everybody, open up for the spoon feeding.

• 54:01Speaker 03

  Just thought I'd drop you both a line. I love the show and enjoy listening to it daily to and from work, especially the wit and dry humor. Even though it goes over your head sometimes.

• 54:09Josh Clark?

  Yeah, right.

• 54:10Speaker 03

  He said, it's very much my style, so much so that you aren't sure if there was a joke even told. Wow, this is getting very meta. Uh, you both make my commute tolerable and enjoyable. Thanks, guys. That is from Adam P. in Gulfport, Mississippi.

• 54:24Josh Clark?

  Nice. Adam, for you, from now on, whenever I make a joke, I'm gonna add Wakawaka at the end.

• 54:32Speaker 03

  That'll do it.

• 54:32Josh Clark?

  It'll be just for Adam. Thanks a lot, Adam. We appreciate that. Thank you for listening to us and for letting us rag on you. We do it lovingly and jokingly. We hope you know.

• 54:41Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 54:42Josh Clark?

  Uh, if you want us to rag on you, well, you send us an email and see what you get. Look up and see what you get. Uh, you can send it to [email protected].

• 54:56Speaker 00

  Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

• 55:12Josh Clark?

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• 56:17Josh Clark?

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