Selects: Can movies be cursed?

First of all, movies can't be cursed because curses aren't real. However, that can't stop Josh and Chuck from taking a look at some movies throughout history that have had a disturbing number of bad things surrounding their production and release. Dive into the world of cursed movies in this very fun classic episode. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:04Josh Clark?

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• 1:28Josh Clark?

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• 1:35Speaker 02

  Hey, everybody. Happy Saturday. Chuck here with your Saturday Selects. And this week, I think it inspired me because recently we did an episode on the movie Roar, the most dangerous movie ever made supposedly. And so let's go back to November of 2017, the 16th to be exact, to talk about movies being cursed. In this episode that runs at 56 minutes long, can movies be cursed? Please enjoy it right now.

• 2:04Speaker 03

  Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio.

• 2:14Josh Clark?

  Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. There's Jerry. My tongue is super big today for some reason.

• 2:22Speaker 02

  Gross.

• 2:23Josh Clark?

  And this is stuff you should know.

• 2:25Speaker 02

  I know, it's like...

• 2:26Josh Clark?

  I sound like Peter Overby for God's sake.

• 2:28Speaker 02

  Who's that?

• 2:29Josh Clark?

  You'd know that guy's voice anywhere. He's like a NPR reporter.

• 2:33Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:33Josh Clark?

  And like, he, he has me even beat for the large tongue's candy sucking sound. Do you remember when we first came out and people would write in and be like, "Tell Josh to stop sucking on candy while he's podcasting." And I'd just be like, "That's my, that's my normal voice, man."

• 2:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, thanks a lot.

• 2:50Josh Clark?

  Yeah, appreciate that. But now, now that we're high rollers, they provided me with a private nurse to suction out the saliva every 30 seconds.

• 3:01Speaker 02

  Oh my God.

• 3:02Josh Clark?

  And then Jerry has to edit it out.

• 3:04Speaker 02

  So gross.

• 3:06Josh Clark?

  Gross but true, right? Like a cursed movie story, true?

• 3:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, do you know what I hated at the dentist, besides everything?

• 3:13Josh Clark?

  Man, that was a pretty good segue.

• 3:15Speaker 02

  I know, that I just totally mowed over.

• 3:18Josh Clark?

  It's alright.

• 3:18Speaker 02

  I hated the dentist now, you know, you don't have to spit anymore because they do have those suction things. But it's still, like, I still do the fake swallow. You know how it feels like it builds up in the back of your mouth? So like, they'll be in your mouth and you'll just go, "Ugh, ugh," like that. I hate that.

• 3:36Josh Clark?

  That's funny.

• 3:37Speaker 02

  Do you do that? Does everyone do that?

• 3:39Josh Clark?

  The gag reflex thing?

• 3:40Speaker 02

  Well, it's not even a gag reflex, it's just the...

• 3:42Josh Clark?

  The hard swallow, the dry swallow?

• 3:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, the sort of swallow reflex, if that's such a thing.

• 3:47Josh Clark?

  Where you feel like you're gonna break your vocal cords or your throat muscles?

• 3:50Speaker 02

  God, I hate that.

• 3:51Josh Clark?

  I know what you mean. I don't hate it, though. I think it's kind of...

• 3:55Speaker 02

  Yeah?

• 3:56Josh Clark?

  Not enjoyable, but I don't know.

• 3:59Speaker 02

  And I hate it when they talk to you and expect you to talk back.

• 4:03Josh Clark?

  They can talk, but yeah, there can't be any questions involved. Maybe rhetorical questions that you can shrug at.

• 4:10Speaker 02

  My last hygienist, I really didn't care for her. Like, it was a personality thing. And they have TVs at my dentist that they'll put down in front of you, and which is fine. I don't really care. But she would stop and like, look and make comments about the news and stuff.

• 4:27Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 4:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:29Josh Clark?

  Why don't they just, why don't they just let him do his job?

• 4:32Speaker 02

  I didn't like it. It was, it was really annoying. And then I came back in not too long ago, and there was a new hygienist for me, and she was awesome. And on the way out, I was like, by the way, I was like, um, I won't say her name. I was like, but this new hygienist I really like a lot. And she was like, what about before? I was like, I wasn't crazy about her. And she went, no one was, and you guys need to tell us that. And we let her go because we got all these complaints started flooding in. I was like, well, I feel bad. Like, I don't want to get anyone fired.

• 5:02Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 5:02Speaker 02

  But I didn't, there was, she wasn't good.

• 5:05Josh Clark?

  Huh.

• 5:06Speaker 02

  So, anyway.

• 5:07Josh Clark?

  Was this in Brookhaven?

• 5:10Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, is it Brookhaven? How do you know where my dentist is?

• 5:16Josh Clark?

  Well, I just had an experience in Brookhaven, and I'm like, this town is just small enough for that to be possible.

• 5:23Speaker 02

  Well, I'll go ahead and shout out my dentist, the great Dr. Daryl Kimchi. She's wonderful.

• 5:28Josh Clark?

  Kimchi?

• 5:28Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 5:29Josh Clark?

  That's one of my favorite foods.

• 5:31Speaker 02

  Well, but is that your dentist?

• 5:33Josh Clark?

  Uh, no.

• 5:34Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 5:35Josh Clark?

  But it's possible that we're talking about like, a hygienist that gets fired pretty frequently.

• 5:41Speaker 02

  Maybe.

• 5:42Josh Clark?

  You know?

• 5:42Speaker 02

  She's making the rounds in Buckhead, Brookhaven.

• 5:44Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 5:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, Dr. Daryl Kimchi of Atlanta Cosmetic Sports Dentistry.

• 5:49Josh Clark?

  Wow, that is quite a shout out. I think, uh, Dr. Kimchi owes us some free kimchi.

• 5:54Speaker 02

  Maybe.

• 5:55Josh Clark?

  As a thank you.

• 5:56Speaker 02

  She's sort of a celebrity dentist. She does a lot of the, uh, sports people in Atlanta.

• 6:01Josh Clark?

  And the Real Housewives?

• 6:02Speaker 02

  Uh, maybe, but I went in and they have memorabilia up everywhere. And when the TV show was out, I gave them a poster, and they never put it up.

• 6:09Josh Clark?

  Oh, no way. That's hilarious.

• 6:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:13Josh Clark?

  Wow, that's great.

• 6:15Speaker 02

  That reminds me of the Friends when Joey tried to get his head shot up at the, I think it's like the dry cleaner or something, and he wouldn't do it.

• 6:21Josh Clark?

  Man, that is so stuff you should know.

• 6:23Speaker 02

  All right, well, this has got a nice loose start.

• 6:25Josh Clark?

  Indeed, Chuck, but this is a, this is, this is a fun one. Um, but let's begin, shall we?

• 6:31Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, this was written by The Grabster. The article is 10 Movies That Were Supposedly Cursed. And Ed goes to great lengths to point out how there is no way that anything can ever be really cursed.

• 6:41Josh Clark?

  Right, I think probably his, a couple of lines where he's like, just so stupid.

• 6:46Speaker 02

  I know.

• 6:46Josh Clark?

  Where it was edited out, you know?

• 6:48Speaker 02

  I get the feeling you gotta sign this, it's like, oh god, are you kidding me?

• 6:51Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:52Speaker 02

  I wanna write about real stuff like Satanic Panic.

• 6:54Josh Clark?

  But he does love writing about movies. He's definitely a movie guy.

• 6:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:58Josh Clark?

  Especially horror movies, and it seems like more than any other movie, horror movies, they're the variety that, that tend to be associated with curses more than other types, right?

• 7:08Speaker 02

  Or at least the marketing department cooks that up.

• 7:11Josh Clark?

  So, yeah, that's definitely par for the course these days. But there was a more innocent, gentler time.

• 7:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:17Josh Clark?

  When, when rumors of Satan influencing the production of a movie was a legitimate rumor, you know? It wasn't a PR stunt.

• 7:25Speaker 02

  Right.

• 7:26Josh Clark?

  So, like you said, Ed goes to some trouble to point out what's actually behind the idea of a movie curse, that some things are bound to happen on just about any movie set.

• 7:37Speaker 02

  Sure, oh yeah.

• 7:37Josh Clark?

  Especially when you stop and consider, especially in the early days, the kind of stuff they were doing with the technology they were working with at the time, of course, bad things happened on movie sets, of course, people died.

• 7:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:52Josh Clark?

  Like, for example, I looked this up, right? Um, there was a 1928 movie called Noah's Ark, and they used 600,000 gallons of water to create the flood scene. One take, they did one take and three extras drowned. One guy who did survive had to have a leg amputated, it was broken so badly. Because this is, this is the flood scene and you needed to, to basically get it as real as possible. Isn't that crazy?

• 8:21Speaker 02

  That is, uh, yeah, especially back in those days, but they didn't care back then.

• 8:25Josh Clark?

  Right, they were just like, oh, they're just extras, who cares? Although John Wayne, it turns out, was an extra in that movie, but he survived, obviously, yeah.

• 8:33Speaker 02

  And he factors into another curse.

• 8:35Josh Clark?

  He does, he also worked in the special effects department on that movie, or prop, prop, sorry, prop.

• 8:41Speaker 02

  Like, special effects was what? He did early CGI.

• 8:44Josh Clark?

  Right, he would, he would clap the coconuts together.

• 8:49Speaker 02

  For all the horse scenes?

• 8:50Josh Clark?

  Right, um, but, but, hold on, I have another one, okay? So, this is another movie, years later, they died with their boots on. I think it's about the Charge of the Light Brigade, maybe?

• 9:00Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 9:01Josh Clark?

  Uh, it was a 1941 movie starring Errol Flynn and during this cavalry charge, uh, that they recreated, three extras in that movie died, just in that one shot, that one scene. One of the guys was thrown from his horse and he threw his sword, like, away from him. Unfortunately threw it ahead of himself and the sword stuck into the ground handle first and he was impaled on the sword.

• 9:28Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 9:29Josh Clark?

  This is, this happened on a movie set and it's not just like back in the day either. 1983, the Twilight Zone movie, very famously, there was a disaster, right?

• 9:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was, uh, it was very sad, that's when Vic Morrow, two children, uh, were chopped up by a helicopter blade.

• 9:47Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 9:48Speaker 02

  Uh, very infamously, it was terrible, terrible tragedy.

• 9:52Josh Clark?

  Yeah, Shin Yee Chan and Micah Din Lee were the two child actors who were killed. So, things do happen on movie sets and again, when you stop and think about what they're doing, it's all been very dangerous. So what Ed is saying is, when you start to put these things together and then you get rid of all of the things that don't support your point, you got a curse on your hands.

• 10:17Speaker 02

  Should we start with Poltergeist?

• 10:18Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 10:19Speaker 02

  Poltergeist, that's one where people always list this as a cursed movie because, uh, quite a few of the actors...

• 10:28Speaker 02

  Died sort of unexpectedly after the movie.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  And then Ed goes on to say very astutely, but it's also a textbook example of why the idea of curses is silly.

• 10:41Speaker 02

  Have I mentioned that curses are silly?

• 10:43Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 10:44Speaker 02

  Over and over. So three of the, those first three Poltergeist, eighty-two, eighty-six, and eighty-eight. I didn't see the remake, did you?

• 10:53Josh Clark?

  I didn't even know there was one.

• 10:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course there was. They remade it a few years ago.

• 10:57Josh Clark?

  No, I didn't. I didn't see it.

• 10:59Speaker 02

  No, I don't think it was very popular. But Dominic Dunn.

• 11:05Josh Clark?

  Dominique.

• 11:06Speaker 02

  Dominique, excuse me. Her father was Dominic Dunn, correct?

• 11:10Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and her brother was Griffin Dunn. Or is Griffin Dunn.

• 11:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, she was, well, she was murdered. She was murdered by her boyfriend.

• 11:20Josh Clark?

  John Sweeney.

• 11:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that was a very disturbing case. Have you ever poked around that case?

• 11:26Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  Like, the signs were all there. It was one of those things that could have been prevented. And he, he got away with it for the most part.

• 11:37Josh Clark?

  He did like three years in prison. And Dominic Dunn, her father, he was there every day for the trial of the man.

• 11:45Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 11:46Josh Clark?

  Just crushed by the injustice of the sentence that the guy received.

• 11:51Speaker 02

  Well, it changed his life. He became a crusader.

• 11:53Josh Clark?

  It did, yeah. He, you can read some of the best coverage of high-profile murder cases in the pages of Vanity Fair that he, he'd covered for years and years and years as a direct result of him basically covering his own daughter's murderer's trial.

• 12:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, OJ very famously, he covered that case.

• 12:13Josh Clark?

  Yeah, he did. And he, apparently the Duns spent a great deal of time.

• 12:20Josh Clark?

  Basically, keeping tabs on John Sweeney for years.

• 12:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was a chef for a while.

• 12:25Josh Clark?

  He was.

• 12:26Speaker 02

  Uh, and I even started tracking him down. This, I just went down the rabbit hole like six or eight months ago on this for some reason.

• 12:33Josh Clark?

  Really?

• 12:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is one of those, you know, things where you see something on Facebook and then all of a sudden you go, oh, yeah, and then you go down the rabbit hole. And I was, I was trying to find this guy. I was like, where is this guy? Where is he? And the last I saw, he was some chef somewhere. Um, I think he had changed his name even, of course.

• 12:50Josh Clark?

  Yeah, to John Maura, M A U R A.

• 12:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, keep changing that name, buddy, because it's, it's gonna follow you around.

• 12:57Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and I mean, like, there was no question whether he did it or not. He admitted to, to it, like, he told this guy who, who had been in the house at the time in, um, Dominique Dunn's house, rehearsing lines, to call the police that he just killed his girlfriend.

• 13:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:13Josh Clark?

  Um, but yeah, he, he was hounded for many years. And I guess toward the end of his life, Dominique Dunn said, you know what? I'm not gonna waste my life, like, keeping tabs on this guy anymore.

• 13:22Speaker 02

  Right.

• 13:23Josh Clark?

  Um, just, just dropped it. But yeah, there's a lot of people out there who don't like that dude.

• 13:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would imagine so. So, um, so she died by murder. Um, then the, the young girl.

• 13:35Josh Clark?

  And this was like a couple of months after Poltergeist came out, right? So it was very close to the production.

• 13:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, she was not in the sequels, obviously. Um, Heather O'Rourke was the little girl in Poltergeist.

• 13:47Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 13:47Speaker 02

  And she passed away after, uh, in 1988, after Poltergeist 2, uh, was wrapped. And she initially was diagnosed with a flu. We talk about this in our flu episode a little bit.

• 14:00Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 14:00Speaker 02

  But what she really had was, uh, an intestinal blockage. And at the tender age of 12, uh, she had a heart attack and sepsis and passed away. Super tragic.

• 14:10Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And so those two dying so close to the production of the actual movie, she died, it was Poltergeist 3, I believe, that Heather O'Rourke died after filming. They were basically done.

• 14:25Speaker 02

  Did Ed get it wrong?

• 14:27Josh Clark?

  Ed got it wrong.

• 14:27Speaker 02

  Oh, man.

• 14:28Josh Clark?

  And then Dominique again died just a couple of months after the first Poltergeist came out. So that's like one big hallmark of a of a movie being cursed story is the deaths that happen typically need to happen either during production or right around production.

• 14:46Speaker 02

  Right.

• 14:47Josh Clark?

  Okay, so those two are the big ones. But then people say, oh, oh, still not convinced? Well, listen to this. In Poltergeist 2, there was an actor named Will Sampson who played Taylor, the medicine man who helps the family.

• 15:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:02Josh Clark?

  And he is better known for playing Chief in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

• 15:06Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 15:07Josh Clark?

  One of the great characters of all time. He died, I guess, after filming, a few years after filming, the year after filming, in 1987, he died following a heart and lung transplant.

• 15:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, and he had a he had a history of health issues. He was a giant man.

• 15:28Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 15:28Speaker 02

  And so that was, you know, again, tied to the curse, but what can you say about someone who just died sort of of natural causes?

• 15:37Josh Clark?

  After a heart and lung transplant, I think there's pretty good odds.

• 15:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:42Josh Clark?

  And then there's Julian Beck, who played the scary, scary, scary preacher.

• 15:47Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 15:48Josh Clark?

  Kane in also in Poltergeist 2.

• 15:50Speaker 02

  Man, he was creepy.

• 15:52Josh Clark?

  He died, I guess, before Poltergeist 2 actually came out. So that would have been close to the production as well. So it checks those boxes, but he died of stomach cancer and he apparently had a longstanding issue with battling it as well. So you can make the case it doesn't really count, but are you really trying to make a case? About curses, yeah. Let's just talk about them instead, how about that?

• 16:21Speaker 02

  Agreed.

• 16:22Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 16:22Speaker 02

  What's next?

• 16:23Josh Clark?

  The Wizard of Oz is next.

• 16:25Speaker 02

  That's right, 1939, great, great movie, but a great movie that was marred by, for such a happy movie, it had some, some rough stuff going on. Because it was in the early days of making movies, and like you said earlier, back then, it was, they didn't know or care as much about safety, like for instance, the Tin Man, Buddy Ebsen.

• 16:48Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 16:49Speaker 02

  They, they said, alright, we need to make you look silver, and so we'll just coat you with aluminum powder. And that stuff was really dangerous. He went to the hospital, it irritated his lungs, and he could not even continue in the role.

• 17:01Josh Clark?

  No, luckily he survived to go on to play Jed, the dad in Beverly Hillbillies, thank god. But he was out of The Wizard of Oz.

• 17:10Speaker 02

  He was.

• 17:11Josh Clark?

  So Buddy Ebsen was replaced by Jack Haley, and they said, well, we probably shouldn't use that same aluminum powder, so they used an aluminum paste, which didn't get into his lungs, but did give him a really bad eye infection.

• 17:24Speaker 02

  Man.

• 17:25Josh Clark?

  Right, so the alum, just the Tin Man role itself had a bunch of problems, but that was just one of many.

• 17:31Speaker 02

  Margaret Hamilton, the wicked witch of the West, she was burned pretty badly with some of the pyrotechnics from the movie. And, um, I think she, she was on, she was hospitalized, but she came back and, you know, completed work on the movie.

• 17:45Josh Clark?

  Yeah, but she said she wasn't gonna do any more firework. Apparently the trap door that she was standing on, the timing of it wasn't, wasn't right.

• 17:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:54Josh Clark?

  So it didn't open up and drop her right before the fireworks went off, but did it simultaneous to the fireworks going off, which is not what you want.

• 18:03Speaker 02

  No. But it was 1939.

• 18:06Josh Clark?

  Right, so they were like, whatever, what are you gonna do?

• 18:08Speaker 02

  Uh, there's the, the very famous urban legend, which is not true, but it bears mentioning, that one of the munchkins, uh, hanged himself in the background of a scene. And if you just Google image that junk, hanged munchkin, Wizard of Oz, it will, it will have a screen cap with a little circle around.

• 18:28Speaker 02

  I mean, it doesn't even look, it just looks like something that is not a tree. In other words, it's not attached to the ground.

• 18:36Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 18:36Speaker 02

  It doesn't necessarily look like a hanging munchkin. But apparently there was a bird.

• 18:40Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it doesn't look like a bird to me either, though. Like supposedly it's a silhouette of a bird. And if you watch the, like a close up of the video of it.

• 18:48Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 18:48Josh Clark?

  It does sway back and forth above the ground. So, I mean, you can see where, where people came up with that for sure.

• 18:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, but that, that is not the case. There was no munchkin that, that just couldn't take it anymore.

• 19:00Josh Clark?

  There's actually, there's a really great horror fiction story by, I think, a guy named Steve Nagy, called The Hanged Man of Oz.

• 19:07Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah?

• 19:07Josh Clark?

  Looking up and, and reading. It's pretty good, but it's about this dude kind of becoming obsessed with that, that rumor and seeing it on video and not being able to unsee it and all the stuff that happens after.

• 19:19Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 19:20Josh Clark?

  I think it's Steve Nagy. It's definitely called The Hanged Man of Oz.

• 19:24Speaker 02

  All right, I'll check that out. Um, other tragedies in Wizard of Oz. Uh, Aunt TM, Miss Clara Blandic, she killed herself.

• 19:35Josh Clark?

  At age 81.

• 19:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:38Josh Clark?

  And she left in her suicide note that, um, that she was going on her greatest adventure.

• 19:43Speaker 02

  Well, that's kind of nice.

• 19:44Josh Clark?

  I guess so. It's about as pleasant as it can get with the suicide note, I think.

• 19:49Speaker 02

  Uh, the wizard himself, Frank Morgan, uh, he was injured in a, in a car wreck just a few months after they released the movie. Uh, and then, of course, Judy Garland had one of the more tragic lives in Hollywood history.

• 20:04Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 20:05Speaker 02

  They're making a movie about her soon, I think.

• 20:06Josh Clark?

  She, uh, I can't believe they haven't already.

• 20:09Speaker 02

  I think they've done it on TV, but not a big movie thing, I don't think.

• 20:13Josh Clark?

  She was basically owned by MGM.

• 20:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:16Josh Clark?

  Like almost, almost the definition of being owned, right? Um, she was, uh, like discovered at age 13, I think in Kansas, actually, uh, at a state fair. And they said, um, well, we're just gonna buy you from your parents, basically. And they took her and they said, you can't get fat, so smoke 80 cigarettes a day.

• 20:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:41Josh Clark?

  They basically prescribed her that. They got her on amphetamines to keep her going. They, they let her have one square meal a day.

• 20:49Speaker 02

  Terrible.

• 20:50Josh Clark?

  Yeah, really. So she, and she, yeah, Ed makes a really good point. If there was any real tragedy that came out of The Wizard of Oz, it was Judy Garland's life.

• 21:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. So she eventually would die by suicide herself on an overdose of barbiturates. And I think it's, she had the equivalent of 10 Ckinol capsules in her body.

• 21:19Josh Clark?

  Good lord.

• 21:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:21Josh Clark?

  Wow. Man, that's sad. I want to see that movie. Do you know who's going to play her?

• 21:27Speaker 02

  Oh, man, I just saw this the other day. I can't remember who. But I remember thinking, yeah, good casting.

• 21:33Josh Clark?

  Oh, okay.

• 21:34Speaker 02

  Like, it wasn't Owen Wilson.

• 21:36Josh Clark?

  That'd be pretty bad.

• 21:39Josh Clark?

  Get your troubles, come on, get happy.

• 21:42Speaker 02

  So, right, she was 47 years young, by the way, which is far, far too young.

• 21:47Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 21:47Speaker 02

  To have lost Judy Garland.

• 21:48Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 21:50Speaker 02

  You want to take a break?

• 21:51Josh Clark?

  Yeah, on that downer, yes.

• 21:53Speaker 02

  All right, we'll come back and talk about The Man of Steel right after this.

• 22:09Speaker 02

  You know, folks, for most of us, home security was never really about the house. It's about the people inside it, the ones you do anything to protect. And a break-in leaves a mark, even if nothing's taken, because it marks the moment homes stop feeling safe. And SimpliSafe gets that, right?

• 22:23Josh Clark?

  Yeah. While other security systems react once a break-in is begun, SimpliSafe is built to keep threats away from your door in the first place.

• 22:30Speaker 02

  That's right. Unlike traditional security systems that only alert you after a break-in is already underway, SimpliSafe is built to stop it before it starts because an agent intervenes in under 30 seconds, speaking through that camera to stop an intruder in their tracks and calling for urgent 911 dispatch when it's needed most.

• 22:47Josh Clark?

  Yep. SimpliSafe has you covered. And they also have a great offer. You can join the more than 6 million people who entrust SimpliSafe with their home security. Right now, save 60% off with professional monitoring when you visit simplisafe.com/stuff. SimpliSafe.com/stuff. And when you order, write in "stuff you should know" in the checkout survey. It lets them know we sent you, and it helps to support the show. So, thank you. SimpliSafe, ahead of crime, in real time.

• 23:18Speaker 02

  You know, you're never done decorating your home. You know what I mean?

• 23:21Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 23:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, because it's a process. There's always something you could do, or buy, or update. The only question is, what's next? For us, our animals just wear out our rugs so quickly. It's usually a new rug.

• 23:32Josh Clark?

  Well, Chuck, whether you need a rug, or whatever is next for you, you can go to Wayfair. It's the smart place to get it.

• 23:39Speaker 02

  That's right. Whatever your style, whatever your budget, whatever you're looking for, Wayfair makes it easy to find it. And you can feel good about your purchases, too, because Wayfair verified products go through a thorough 10-point quality inspection.

• 23:51Josh Clark?

  And with over 20 million 5-star reviews, Wayfair must be doing something right. You can find pieces made for real life and get even more value with Wayfair Rewards. Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R dot com.

• 24:16Josh Clark?

  Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it all starts with a great deal on a truck from your local Toyota dealer.

• 24:26Speaker 02

  That's right. Make a smart buy on the off-road Ready Tacoma or half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's most capable and longest-lasting trucks, built with the strength for the tough jobs, the tech to power your next big adventure, and the rugged style for everything in between.

• 24:39Josh Clark?

  Or discover Toyota's off-road lineup, including the iconic 4Runner and Land Cruiser, designed to go beyond the everyday. And with Toyota's proven reputation for quality and reliability, plus hybrid power on many models, you can get more for every mile and drive for less along the way.

• 24:55Speaker 02

  That's right. And long after you leave the lot, your Toyota keeps delivering with great resale value. So you could trade in for more when you're ready for your next Toyota. From a great deal today to a great value tomorrow, a Toyota is right for you. Shop toyota.com for deals and details, or stop by your local Toyota dealer today. Toyota, let's go places.

• 25:27Josh Clark?

  All right Chuck, so there's actually a role, Superman, that's considered a cursed role. Did you know that?

• 25:37Speaker 02

  I did know that because I remember as a kid, even though I'm not, you know, 65 years old, I liked to watch reruns of stuff like Gilligan's Island and Green Acres and Petticoat Junction.

• 25:51Josh Clark?

  Oh, really? I've never seen Petticoat Junction, is it good?

• 25:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, you know, it's one of those old shows, they're all great.

• 25:56Josh Clark?

  What about F Troop? F Troop's probably one of my favorites of all time.

• 25:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, I watched F Troop, I watched all that stuff.

• 26:02Speaker 02

  Superman, the name of the show that I watched was called Adventures of Superman, and that was straight up from the 1950s and still in reruns in the mid 70s at least.

• 26:11Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 26:11Speaker 02

  Because that's where I watched it, and that was the one starring George Reeves as the, not even very muscular and slightly tubby Superman.

• 26:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah, like that kind of like 50s fit.

• 26:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, kind of barrel chested.

• 26:26Josh Clark?

  Which is chunky and just weird, like weirdly shaped.

• 26:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:31Josh Clark?

  Like what were the, what kind of exercise were they doing back then?

• 26:34Speaker 02

  Well, I don't think they did exercise back then, wasn't that the deal?

• 26:37Josh Clark?

  Oh, is that what it was?

• 26:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, they were just like, you know, you're gonna play Superman, so eat a bunch of steak.

• 26:43Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 26:44Speaker 02

  Buff up a little bit.

• 26:45Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 26:46Speaker 02

  Do some pushups maybe.

• 26:47Josh Clark?

  So he, George Reeve, Reeves, he's George Reeves, Christopher Reeve is not plural, it's a singular version, right?

• 26:55Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 26:56Josh Clark?

  George Reeves became synonymous with Superman, like everybody thought of him as Superman.

• 27:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, too much.

• 27:02Josh Clark?

  Like, he wouldn't be cast in anything else, right? And he had some, he had to put up with quite a bit being known as Superman or recognized as Superman, apparently kids would come up and like punch him in the stomach to see if he was made of steel. I looked into it, I learned this years ago from the Uncle John's Bathroom Reader, and I looked into it and I think it actually may be correct, but at one like public appearance, he Had to talk a kid out of shooting him. Like, this kid had brought his father's loaded thirty-eight caliber pistol to shoot Superman to see if the bullets really bounced off of him. And George Reeves got the kid to put, to hand the gun over to like a cop or something,

• 27:47Josh Clark?

  because he told them that, sure, of course, the bullet would bounce off of him, but it could ricochet and hurt somebody else who was standing nearby.

• 27:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was in the Ben Affleck movie, Hollywood Land.

• 27:58Josh Clark?

  Is that right?

• 27:59Speaker 02

  It's about George Reeves, and that scene was in the movie.

• 28:02Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 28:03Speaker 02

  And he does.

• 28:04Josh Clark?

  I've not seen that movie or heard of it.

• 28:05Speaker 02

  Eh, it's okay, it's not great, but...

• 28:07Josh Clark?

  You lost me at Ben Affleck.

• 28:08Speaker 02

  It's not bad. But yeah, he talks the kid out of it in the movie and, um, and is said exactly what he said, like, of course, blah, blah, blah, and then he takes it, then you can see him, he's just like, oh, God, Jesus, like, I almost got shot.

• 28:22Josh Clark?

  Right, yeah, so, yeah, that was, I can't imagine the relief that would wash over you after that.

• 28:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, George Reeves, Reeves?

• 28:31Josh Clark?

  Reeves, yeah, he's the plural. It's tough to keep up with.

• 28:35Speaker 02

  It is, he had a very sort of sad life, uh, which is in that Hollywood Land movie. He, like you said, he couldn't get other work, and he was only known as Superman, so I think he turned to the booze, and, um, was not a happy guy. And eventually, in June of nineteen fifty-nine, um, there was a, he was having a party at his own house, his fiance was throwing a party, and he said, "I'm gonna go upstairs and shoot myself in the head."

• 29:03Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and Ed makes it sound like he was upset about the noise or something like that from the party?

• 29:09Speaker 02

  Nah, I mean, that may have been the straw, but he was upset about life.

• 29:13Josh Clark?

  I gotcha.

• 29:14Speaker 02

  And I got the sense, like, legitimately depressed, you know, like, clinically depressed.

• 29:20Josh Clark?

  Right, yeah, I mean, like, it's, it's, as we get to know more and more about, like, depression, um, it's so much easier to look back at, like, you know, people who were depressed before, but that you just never really kind of pegged them like that, because you, people didn't know about that kind of thing, then it's just sad to see, like, how many people suffered like that because no one knew what was going on, or they just thought it was the blues, or you should just snap out of it, you know?

• 29:50Speaker 02

  Right, yeah.

• 29:51Josh Clark?

  We've never done one on depression, I think we should.

• 29:54Speaker 02

  Have we not?

• 29:54Josh Clark?

  I don't believe we have, man.

• 29:57Speaker 02

  Uh, well, then we should definitely do that.

• 29:59Josh Clark?

  We have done one on cats.

• 30:02Speaker 02

  Uh, and then Christopher Reeve, uh, played Superman, and that is why some say it is a cursed role, because he, uh, was very sadly injured in a, in a horse riding accident in the mid nineties, uh, which left him paralyzed from the neck down. And he became very much an inspiration to people because he became a, an advocate for research into spinal cord injuries. And he went on to, uh, direct and even act some as well after that.

• 30:30Josh Clark?

  And Ed also points out, um, that after Christopher Reeve died, his wife Dana, who saw him through this whole thing.

• 30:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:40Josh Clark?

  Um, she died of cancer like two years afterward.

• 30:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've just, man, I felt so awful for that family and those kids.

• 30:47Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I mean, well, just to get, like, that random, to be thrown from a horse, and then just be paralyzed from the neck down, yeah. So you put those two together, and everyone says, "Well, Superman is a cursed role."

• 31:00Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 31:01Josh Clark?

  What would, what would the grabster say?

• 31:03Speaker 02

  No such thing as curses.

• 31:05Josh Clark?

  So stupid.

• 31:06Speaker 02

  Uh, The Conqueror is a movie that, like we said, John Wayne factored in, and this one was definitely, I don't know about cursed, but, um, well, here's the story.

• 31:19Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 31:19Speaker 02

  It is, uh, very unlikely that John Wayne would play, uh, Mongolian Genghis Khan.

• 31:25Josh Clark?

  He did, though.

• 31:26Speaker 02

  But it was Hollywood back in the day where they just would cast white people to play whoever.

• 31:31Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 31:32Speaker 02

  Um, and he played Genghis Khan, and they shot The Conqueror in Utah, uh, less than a hundred and fifty miles from the Nevada test site, sorry, Nevada test site, where our own US government set off eleven, uh, nuclear detonations above ground the year before.

• 31:50Josh Clark?

  Just in the year before.

• 31:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that area was crawling.

• 31:56Speaker 02

  With uh, with bad stuff, lingering fallout in the dirt and in the, the, the rocks and like everything, it was in the soil and they were just running around in there filming movies.

• 32:11Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I read this really interesting article in The Guardian called Hollywood and the Downwinders.

• 32:16Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 32:16Josh Clark?

  About the people who lived in that area who suffered tremendously.

• 32:21Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 32:21Josh Clark?

  From health problems from the fallout. The government went to great lengths to cover it up and just assured everybody that there was no danger whatsoever to them, even though they were, their, their houses and schoolyards were covered in radioactive ash. And so from filming there, when this production came to town and they filmed there, yeah, they were exposed to this, the same radioactive debris and dust and dirt that these people who lived in the area were as well. And as a result, supposedly, something like ninety, ninety-one out of two hundred and twenty cast and crew members who worked on location for the movie

• 33:04Josh Clark?

  The Conqueror, came down with cancer later on in life, which is highly unusual statistically speaking.

• 33:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's like forty something percent of the crew. And years later, in People Magazine in nineteen eighty, they actually did a special report on that movie and the cancer connection, like John Wayne, Agnes Moorehead, Gene, Gene Gerson, Susan Hayward, the director, Dick Powell, they all died of cancer. And in that People Magazine, Dr. Robert C. Pendleton, he was Director of Radiological Health at the University of Utah, said that, like, this would hold up in a court of law. That's such an outstanding number of people.

• 33:46Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and apparently not even just the people who worked on the production. It came to be known, The Conqueror came to be known, by the way, it's considered one of the- Best bad movies of the golden age of Hollywood. But people who visited the set battled cancer later in life, too. Both of John Wayne's sons, who came to visit him. There's a famous picture of him with two of his sons and a guy using a Geiger counter on set.

• 34:15Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 34:16Josh Clark?

  Both of his sons had cancer later in life, too. But supposedly, the family and Dick Powell's son Norman, who's interviewed in that article I read, they discount the idea that it was, that people got cancer from that test site. They say, maybe it was a contributing factor, but these people all smoked heavily, ate steak like eight, eight times a day.

• 34:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:41Josh Clark?

  And that they, they had a lot of other risk factors that probably led to it. But it's also entirely possible that they may not have died of cancer as early had they not filmed at that site.

• 34:54Speaker 02

  Well, that Dr. Robert Pendleton Pendleton said essentially that this is about three times the rate of cancer that you would expect, so.

• 35:01Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 35:01Speaker 02

  I think that it definitely contributed.

• 35:04Josh Clark?

  It's pretty curious. I want to see it. Have you ever seen The Conqueror?

• 35:07Speaker 02

  No.

• 35:08Josh Clark?

  I gotta see this.

• 35:09Speaker 02

  I've seen pictures of John Wayne as, as Genghis Khan.

• 35:12Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it's pretty, pretty cringey. Yeah, super racist. But apparently, like, even if you take all that away, just like the dialogue is awful. Like, the whole premise of it is he kidnaps a woman and forces her to marry him. And of course, romance blossoms as a result. You know, it's just the usual stuff from the 50s.

• 35:32Speaker 02

  The Omen.

• 35:34Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 35:35Speaker 02

  This is a good one because this is one of those where it's a movie about the devil. And so, all these stories are going to be heightened.

• 35:45Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 35:46Speaker 02

  Because it's kind of like Poltergeist, like, it wouldn't, if this was When Harry Met Sally, and that some of this stuff happened.

• 35:54Josh Clark?

  That, When Harry Met Sally was cursed with great laughs.

• 35:58Speaker 02

  It was. I love that movie. Uh, one of the few romantic comedies that were legit good movies.

• 36:03Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 36:04Speaker 02

  You know?

• 36:04Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 36:05Speaker 02

  So, let's, let's go back to the beginning of this one. Obviously, the omen everyone knows was uh, the great movie from nineteen seventy-six about the Antichrist, uh, taking, um, well, not, I guess possession, you could call it, but it's not like an exorcist thing. It basically, the Antichrist is, is this little boy. He comes back as a little boy.

• 36:25Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, a bad, bad naughty little boy.

• 36:30Speaker 02

  Damien.

• 36:30Josh Clark?

  Who dresses like Angus Young.

• 36:32Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, sure.

• 36:34Josh Clark?

  Okay, so, um, Damien is adopted by Gregory Peck in the movie.

• 36:39Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:39Josh Clark?

  Um, and in real life, Gregory Peck's son, um, killed himself. He died by suicide, uh, apparently out of the blue. No suicide note or anything like that.

• 36:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:51Josh Clark?

  And this was before production had started, but after Peck had agreed to do the movie.

• 36:58Speaker 02

  Right.

• 36:58Josh Clark?

  And he still went ahead and did the movie. Um, he left the US and went to London. And even, even on the way to London, before he even got to London to start shooting, something happened to him, right?

• 37:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, he said, "I'm gonna get on a plane and fly to London." His plane was struck by lightning.

• 37:16Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 37:17Speaker 02

  And the producer's plane was struck by lightning.

• 37:19Josh Clark?

  Separately, these are two different, two different planes, struck by lightning, on the way to start shooting in London.

• 37:25Speaker 02

  So this cursed thing is feeling legit this time.

• 37:28Josh Clark?

  This is the one that even Ed got a little shaky on, if you ask me.

• 37:32Speaker 02

  How about this? The hotel where they stayed, uh, at least where the producer and some other folks stayed, was bombed by the Irish Republican Army.

• 37:39Josh Clark?

  Yeah, Hilton, the London Hilton.

• 37:41Speaker 02

  I don't know about, uh, a curse in that case, because the mid-seventies, there was a lot of that going on.

• 37:47Josh Clark?

  Yeah. The IRA was bombing all sorts of stuff back then. So it was-

• 37:51Speaker 02

  Like a restaurant where the crew and the cast went to eat one night.

• 37:54Josh Clark?

  Yeah, they were about to go eat there. So there's actually like, all these close calls actually make it seem like this, this movie production wasn't cursed, but instead was actually being looked out for on high by the Dark Lord.

• 38:09Josh Clark?

  Right, so like the, the, the crew that were, was gonna go to dinner, um, didn't go to dinner. They didn't make it there in time for the bombing.

• 38:17Speaker 02

  Right.

• 38:18Josh Clark?

  The people who were staying in the hotel when it was bombed, weren't there yet. Um, there were a lot of close calls, but there was one close call that really is, is just mind numbing. I would have freaked out had I been one of the people involved.

• 38:33Speaker 02

  The private jet?

• 38:34Josh Clark?

  Yeah, so they chartered a private jet to, um, fly them around London to get some good aerial footage of London. And at the last minute, the, um, charter service switched planes to accommodate a group of Japanese businessmen. Well, the plane that, that, the Japanese businessman took that the crew was supposed to be on, crashed on takeoff, actually crashed into a car and killed everybody onboard the plane and everybody in the car it crashed into.

• 39:02Speaker 02

  How about that?

• 39:04Josh Clark?

  And this was like a last minute switch too supposedly.

• 39:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, those make you think.

• 39:09Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that, I mean, curse or no, just knowing that you were that close would just, that'd get you.

• 39:15Speaker 02

  How about this, a worker, there was an animal sanctuary where they filmed and a worker there was killed by a tiger.

• 39:21Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 39:22Speaker 02

  That one, uh,

• 39:23Josh Clark?

  I think,

• 39:24Speaker 02

  That one fits.

• 39:25Josh Clark?

  I think that was the actual animal wrangler for the movie was killed.

• 39:29Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 39:29Josh Clark?

  Yeah, which makes it even closer. This is the one though Chuck, you gotta take this one home. This is the one that really gets everybody, even though I think it's, like a lot of it's made up.

• 39:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, there was a car crash with, uh, John Richardson, who was a special effects, uh, worker. Uh, he designed the effects for The Omen.

• 39:49Josh Clark?

  Including a very famous decapitation scene toward the end.

• 39:52Speaker 02

  Yes, very famous. And, uh, oh, I thought that was the beginning.

• 39:55Josh Clark?

  Was it the beginning?

• 39:56Speaker 02

  I think so. I think that's how it opened if I remember, but it's been a while.

• 39:59Josh Clark?

  Oh, okay.

• 39:59Speaker 02

  Either way, um, he was in Holland after working on a movie called A Bridge Too Far. And he was involved in a head-on collision in his car and was injured. But his assistant, Liz Moore, was decapitated and killed in that car wreck. And he claims, and I don't know if this is lore or not,

• 40:19Josh Clark?

  Sounds lurish.

• 40:20Speaker 02

  It does sound lurish, but he claims that he awoke from that crash and looked up and there was a street sign where they crashed that said the distance to the next town. And it was the town of Omen, O-M-N-E-N, at a distance of 66.6 kilometers.

• 40:39Josh Clark?

  Bam.

• 40:41Speaker 02

  Now, is that true?

• 40:42Josh Clark?

  There's no way it's true because I looked up on the internet that sign, trying to find any picture of that sign. If that sign existed, there would be so many pictures from tourists taking, taking photos of it on the internet. There's not a single one.

• 40:56Speaker 02

  You think from back then, those pictures would still be around?

• 40:58Josh Clark?

  Uh, the sign would probably be, still be around.

• 41:02Speaker 02

  Well, see, I think that's the presumption that may not be true. Like, they may have taken the sign down for that reason.

• 41:08Josh Clark?

  Maybe. I guess that's possible, but no picture of it whatsoever. That no AP photographer went, "I gotta get a picture of that sign." Nobody did. That there's no existing photo of that sign.

• 41:21Speaker 02

  It does seem hinky, for sure.

• 41:22Josh Clark?

  Yeah. That's the one that makes me think like, nah. Although, there is a town called Omen in the Netherlands, so it's entirely possible the crash took place by there.

• 41:29Speaker 02

  So that checks out.

• 41:31Josh Clark?

  That definitely checks out. So, we're gonna take a break, everybody. We just decided. But we're gonna be right back, so don't worry, because we're gonna talk some more about cursed movies.

• 41:53Speaker 02

  You know, folks, for most of us, home security was never really about the house. It's about the people inside it, the ones you do anything to protect. And a break-in leaves a mark, even if nothing's taken, because it marks the moment homes stop feeling safe. And SimpliSafe gets that, right?

• 42:07Josh Clark?

  Yeah. While other security systems react once a break-in is begun, SimpliSafe is built to keep threats away from your door in the first place.

• 42:14Speaker 02

  That's right. Unlike traditional security systems that only alert you after a break-in is already underway, SimpliSafe is built to stop it before it starts, because an agent intervenes in under 30 seconds, speaking through that camera to stop an intruder in their tracks and calling for urgent 911. Dispatch when it's needed most.

• 42:30Josh Clark?

  Yep, SimpliSafe has you covered. And they also have a great offer. You can join the more than 6 million people who entrust SimpliSafe with their home security. Right now, save 60% off with professional monitoring when you visit simplisafe.com/stuff. SimpliSafe.com/stuff. And when you order, write in "stuff you should know" in the checkout survey. It lets them know we sent you and it helps to support the show. So, thank you. SimpliSafe, ahead of crime in real time.

• 43:02Josh Clark?

  Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it all starts with a great deal on a truck from your local Toyota dealer.

• 43:12Speaker 02

  That's right. Make a smart buy on the off-road Ready Tacoma or half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's most capable and longest-lasting trucks, built with the strength for the tough jobs, the tech to power your next big adventure, and the rugged style for everything in between.

• 43:25Josh Clark?

  Or discover Toyota's off-road lineup, including the iconic 4Runner and Land Cruiser, designed to go beyond the everyday. And with Toyota's proven reputation for quality and reliability, plus hybrid power on many models, you can get more for every mile and drive for less along the way.

• 43:40Speaker 02

  That's right. And long after you leave the lot, your Toyota keeps delivering with great resale value. So, you can trade in for more when you're ready for your next Toyota. From a great deal today to a great value tomorrow, a Toyota is right for you. Shop toyota.com for deals and details, or stop by your local Toyota dealer today. Toyota, let's go places.

• 44:03Speaker 04

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• 44:43Josh Clark?

  All right, we're back, as I promised. And we're on to Brainstorm, which I think Ed was just kind of showing off with this one. Because he even says, like, "You're not going to find this on many lists of cursed movies."

• 44:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm not sure I get the curse in this one, but we'll talk about it. Brainstorm was the 1983 sci-fi movie, most famously known as being the great Natalie Wood's final film.

• 45:06Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 45:07Speaker 02

  Because she died, in real life, after the movie, obviously. When she drowned after being out on a boat one night, partying with her husband, Robert Wagner, and her co-star, Christopher Walken.

• 45:22Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 45:23Speaker 02

  Under, some say, many say, mysterious circumstances.

• 45:26Josh Clark?

  Yeah. I was reading up about that case, and they apparently had been drinking since at least four in the afternoon. And they made it back to the boat pretty late, and they'd been drinking through dinner. They were all just pretty crocked, right? And supposedly Natalie Wood was either afraid of water and/or couldn't swim.

• 45:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:46Josh Clark?

  And for some reason, she had tried to get into a dinghy that was attached to the boat that they were staying on, and probably hit her head and drowned.

• 45:59Speaker 02

  That's the story.

• 46:01Josh Clark?

  That's the official story, right? But apparently, in 2012, it was reopened, or her cause of death was changed from accident to undetermined.

• 46:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, there were stories that she and Robert Wagner had been fighting. The captain even, many years later, said that he actually killed her. No charges were ever brought. Christopher Walken, for his, I think he's never talked about it publicly, if I'm not mistaken.

• 46:29Josh Clark?

  No, he finally did, years and years later.

• 46:30Speaker 02

  Oh, did he?

• 46:31Josh Clark?

  In a Playboy interview, and he basically said it was, it must have been an accident. That no one knows, but it was, surely it was an accident.

• 46:37Speaker 02

  Gotcha.

• 46:38Josh Clark?

  That was what he said.

• 46:40Speaker 02

  And that's probably the only thing he said, because I didn't think he ever said anything.

• 46:43Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 46:44Speaker 02

  He said, "It's an accident, clearly."

• 46:48Josh Clark?

  That was great.

• 46:56Josh Clark?

  Because that was Christopher Walken with just a hint of John Travolta.

• 47:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was a little Travolta-esque.

• 47:03Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 47:05Speaker 02

  So, yeah, I mean, that's tied to brainstorm as being a curse, I guess, because they were both in the movie. Even though the grabster points out that some people tied this back to a rebel without a cause curse because...

• 47:17Josh Clark?

  That makes way more sense to me.

• 47:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, because James Dean and Sal Mineo and Natalie Wood then all died from that movie.

• 47:23Josh Clark?

  Relatively young. She made it the longest. She was in her early 40s, I think, when she died. But James Dean died very young in a car crash right after Rebel Without a Cause was released, I think.

• 47:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I think wasn't Sal Mineo murdered?

• 47:36Josh Clark?

  He was murdered in 1976, at a pretty young age still. He was stabbed to death in the heart in an alley behind his house.

• 47:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, so...

• 47:47Josh Clark?

  By a pizza man.

• 47:48Speaker 02

  To me, oh, really?

• 47:49Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 47:53Speaker 02

  It's a little weird.

• 47:54Josh Clark?

  Well, it is. But, I mean, we're talking about curses, so...

• 47:57Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, usually the pizza man gets stabbed, you know what I'm saying?

• 47:59Josh Clark?

  Right. I think this guy was actually a serial killing pizza man.

• 48:03Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 48:04Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 48:05Speaker 02

  I just saw recently, is there a serial killer in, like, central Florida?

• 48:10Josh Clark?

  I don't know. I hadn't heard anything. But aren't there, like, at least 50 serial killers operating at any given point in time?

• 48:16Speaker 02

  I don't know. But I do know that I saw something that I heard that, like, three murders in the Tampa area were just linked.

• 48:24Josh Clark?

  Oh, man.

• 48:25Speaker 02

  I think. And that made me think, it's been a while.

• 48:29Josh Clark?

  Yeah, you don't hear about them very often, but as I grow older and wiser, I'm starting to think, like, there's a lot more serial killers out there than you would imagine. That, like, human life has very little value to more people than you would hope, you know? Isn't that the darkest thing you can think of?

• 48:47Speaker 02

  It's pretty dark. The last high-profile one I remember is BTK, but surely there's been one since then, right?

• 48:53Josh Clark?

  Yeah, because he was, like, early 2000s, right?

• 48:56Speaker 02

  I know, but I can't think of one.

• 48:58Josh Clark?

  I can't either, man.

• 48:59Speaker 02

  But it's been a long time since, you know, we've heard of, like, Jeffrey Dahmers and...

• 49:04Josh Clark?

  Man, that was shocking.

• 49:05Speaker 02

  Ted Bundy's and stuff like that.

• 49:06Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 49:07Speaker 02

  Thankfully.

• 49:08Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 49:09Speaker 02

  The Son of Sam's and the Zodiacs. It seems like the 70s and 80s were sort of the time where that was happening more.

• 49:16Josh Clark?

  Yeah. I don't know why, maybe it was harder to get away with it, or easier to get away with it, or?

• 49:22Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 49:23Josh Clark?

  Who knows?

• 49:24Speaker 02

  I'm listening to that Heaven's Gate podcast.

• 49:26Josh Clark?

  Oh, I haven't heard that, no.

• 49:28Speaker 02

  It's good. It's from our buddy Chris Bannon over at Midroll put it out.

• 49:32Josh Clark?

  Is he hosting it?

• 49:34Speaker 02

  No, no, no. Glenn Washington narrates it, but I've been through three episodes now. It's really good, but it's kind of funny, man, that that time of the 60s and 70s, it was just, and we talked about it some in our cults episode, it was, people just believed more in trying stuff out like that, and UFOs, and it was all just kind of in the mainstream.

• 49:57Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 49:58Speaker 02

  And it just all seems so unbelievable now, but back then, it wasn't, it was kind of believable that someone might join up with a cult.

• 50:05Josh Clark?

  Well, a lot of people were on grass back then.

• 50:08Speaker 02

  On the grass?

• 50:09Josh Clark?

  Yeah. That's crazy. I gotta hear that podcast, man. That's, that's just a fascinating story.

• 50:16Speaker 02

  But now that means we can't do Heaven's Gate, because?

• 50:18Josh Clark?

  Bannon did it.

• 50:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then they did, you know, you can't cover in 45 minutes what they cover in whatever, 10 episodes.

• 50:24Josh Clark?

  10? Sounds about right.

• 50:26Speaker 02

  I'm not sure. I haven't, I don't think they released it all at once, but it feels like a 10.

• 50:30Josh Clark?

  Let's say 7 to 10.

• 50:33Speaker 02

  So anyway, can we close on Brainstorm, or are we still? Did we miss something?

• 50:39Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I think, yeah, I mean Natalie Wood's murders, or death, death, sorry, is unsolved still, and it's a mystery, it may always be. I had no idea about that, about Robert Wagner. I just knew Natalie Wood drowned. I'd never heard anything about it being mysterious.

• 50:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, it's long been mysterious. And, well, here's how we'll finish it then. She wasn't even able to finish filming on that movie, and they did use a body double to complete some of those scenes. And it was a big flop.

• 51:08Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 51:11Josh Clark?

  Yes, it was. Okay Chuck, so for the last one then, we're gonna combine two together.

• 51:17Speaker 02

  Alright, great idea.

• 51:18Josh Clark?

  Strangely, they are almost the same story, but with two different films. And both of them are films that were never made, or have yet to be made, I guess is a better way to put it. The first one is A Confederacy of Dunces, the film adaptation of John Kennedy Tool's book, I guess, novel.

• 51:37Speaker 02

  Great book.

• 51:38Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I've never read it.

• 51:40Speaker 02

  So good.

• 51:41Josh Clark?

  I really want to, I've just never read it for some reason.

• 51:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a classic, classic book, and very sadly, Tool killed himself in 1969, and the book was not out yet. And part of the reason he killed himself is because he could not achieve success as a writer. His mother gets it published, it wins a Pulitzer Prize in 1981, and posthumously, he became a famous author.

• 52:04Josh Clark?

  Yeah, so people, when it first was published in the early 80s, people were like, "Oh, we've got to turn this into a movie, this is a great idea, great book, will be a great movie." And they said, "Who could, who can possibly play the main character? Belushi, he'd be perfect." Belushi dies. Well, who's next? Let's wait a few years and let's see. Who else could play this main character? John Candy. John Candy died. Okay, alright, everybody, let's just take a breather, we'll wait a year or two. Who's the next guy who's gonna play this? I got it, this young up-and-comer named Chris Farley.

• 52:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:44Josh Clark?

  Chris Farley died. So, A Confederacy of Dunces just kept getting put off and off and off, right? And then finally, Will Ferrell steps in, and it looks like it's going to happen, because Will Ferrell is obviously indestructible, right?

• 52:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, and if you haven't gathered by hearing the people cast as Ignatius Riley, he was a heavy man in the book. So, obviously, Belushi, Candy, and Farley were all big dudes, and they all died, so finally they go to Ferrell, and they're like, "Well, he's in shape, we can bulk him up, maybe use some special effects," I have no idea, "but at least he's probably not gonna drop dead of a heart attack or something."

• 53:23Josh Clark?

  Right, he was a safe bet.

• 53:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, but that didn't happen either.

• 53:28Speaker 02

  I think it was sort of in turnaround forever. It took a long time in development. And eventually, um, the, the head of the Louisiana State Film Commission, it's set in New Orleans, so they would have shot there. He was murdered and Hurricane Katrina came along to wipe out a lot of where the film would be, uh, shot.

• 53:47Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 53:48Speaker 02

  And so I think that kind of just helped to put it on indefinite hold at the very least.

• 53:53Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 53:53Speaker 02

  But they are, I just saw, I was looking this up, see if it was back on track. And I saw there's a movie called The Butterfly and the Typewriter. About John Kennedy Tool.

• 54:02Josh Clark?

  Oh, neat.

• 54:03Speaker 02

  So they're doing a biopic on him with, um.

• 54:05Josh Clark?

  Owen Wilson.

• 54:06Speaker 02

  Thomas Mann, no, uh, Thomas Mann playing Tool.

• 54:10Josh Clark?

  Who's he?

• 54:12Speaker 02

  He's an actor.

• 54:13Josh Clark?

  Right, obviously, but what has he been in?

• 54:16Speaker 02

  The thing that I saw him in was, uh, a movie out a couple of years ago called Me and Earl and the Dying Girl.

• 54:23Josh Clark?

  Oh, okay.

• 54:23Speaker 02

  It's a good, good little indie film. So he's, he's good. So he's playing Tool and then I think Susan Sarandon plays his mom.

• 54:29Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 54:29Speaker 02

  And Diane Kruger's in it as well, so, uh.

• 54:32Josh Clark?

  And Susan Sarandon's gonna totally try to date him too, I'll bet.

• 54:37Speaker 02

  Why would you say that?

• 54:38Josh Clark?

  Oh, she likes younger dudes.

• 54:39Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 54:40Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 54:41Speaker 02

  Wow, maybe I have a shot.

• 54:42Josh Clark?

  She likes young hipster dudes. No, way younger than you, my friend.

• 54:46Speaker 02

  Maybe not. Good for her. I love Susan Sarandon.

• 54:49Josh Clark?

  So, oh yeah, more power to her. I think she's great. Um, but she is totally gonna try to date Thomas Mann.

• 54:54Speaker 02

  All right. Well, good for him too then.

• 54:56Josh Clark?

  Sure. Um, I'm not being judgy.

• 54:58Speaker 02

  No, I know.

• 54:59Josh Clark?

  Okay, so then that's, um, a Confederacy of Dunces, right?

• 55:03Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 55:04Josh Clark?

  There's another script out there called A Tuck that has virtually the same story to it, right? Um, but the, the story's totally different, but the curse story is, is virtually the same.

• 55:16Speaker 02

  Right.

• 55:16Josh Clark?

  With A Tuck, it's like a fish out of water movie about an Inuit man who, um, comes to New York and has to make his way in the big city, right?

• 55:25Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 55:27Josh Clark?

  Um, that script was, early on, it was optioned, um, and John Belushi was scheduled to play the main character, right? Well, what happened to John Belushi? He died. So who was up next, Chuck?

• 55:42Speaker 02

  John Candy.

• 55:43Josh Clark?

  Isn't that crazy?

• 55:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:45Josh Clark?

  Okay, well, John Candy. Past, God rest his soul, who was after John Candy?

• 55:50Speaker 02

  Chris Farley.

• 55:51Josh Clark?

  That's right, Chris Farley. And so the narrative to this cursed story takes a huge sudden turn when the next person up after Chris Farley is Sam Kinison.

• 56:04Speaker 02

  Yes, and Sam Kinison, they were actually, I mean, they were actually gonna make the movie. It was happening. And Sam Kinison kind of destroyed that because he wanted to, he wanted to be really heavily involved in the script where he writes, and the direction of the film, he wanted creative control, he battled with the studio, I think there may have even been lawsuits going on.

• 56:25Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 56:26Speaker 02

  And he eventually got to the point where he was like, you know what, if I'm gonna, if you're not gonna give me creative control, I'll be in your movie and I'll, I'll suck on purpose.

• 56:36Josh Clark?

  On purpose. And they said, oh yeah, we're gonna sue you. And he said, oh yeah.

• 56:40Speaker 02

  Ah, ah!

• 56:41Josh Clark?

  Right. And then he died in a car wreck.

• 56:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:45Josh Clark?

  Before anything could happen as a result. So I took, for the moment, died with him again. Isn't that bizarre?

• 56:53Speaker 02

  It is.

• 56:54Josh Clark?

  The idea that those two things crossed over like that, that one, obviously it's not a curse, but I think that it's pretty interesting at the very least.

• 57:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure.

• 57:03Josh Clark?

  Well, if you guys wanna know more about movie curses, just go start watching movies and ask people, is this one cursed? And then if they say no, go watch another one and ask about that. And then eventually someone will say, yes, this one's cursed. And then ask them the story behind it. And in the meantime, since I said all that, it's time for listener mail.

• 57:25Speaker 02

  I'm gonna call this just a very kind email from a kind Aussie.

• 57:29Josh Clark?

  Nice.

• 57:30Speaker 02

  Hey, guys, discovered your show a couple of months ago, and I reckon I have listened to two or three podcasts a day since then.

• 57:36Josh Clark?

  Awesome.

• 57:37Speaker 02

  I absolutely love you guys, and to say that your show is addictive would be an understatement. Until very recently, I was a news junkie. I lived in Melbourne, Australia, and would listen to Radio National at every opportunity. But since Brexit and the recent US election, listening to the news and current affairs has become a health hazard for me. I also have two youngest children, 11 and 9, and having grown up in the shadow of the mushroom cloud myself, I don't want to subject my kids to the same fear. So finding your podcast has been a true joy. I love how enthusiastic and optimistic you both are about everything, and your curiosity is truly infectious.

• 58:11Josh Clark?

  So nice.

• 58:11Speaker 02

  Isn't it?

• 58:12Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 58:12Speaker 02

  Uh, you are so gloriously accepting of different ideas and cultures. I've even adopted Chuck's, I don't want to yuck someone else's yum. Which, by the way, Bridget, I did not make that up.

• 58:22Josh Clark?

  No, that was another listener who sent that one in.

• 58:24Speaker 02

  But we love to say it.

• 58:25Josh Clark?

  For sure.

• 58:25Speaker 02

  Uh, and I'm glad you've adopted that. Uh, but I love the podcast so much, I've gotten my husband and kids into it as well. Uh, my husband is a radio ham. We listened to your episode on ham radio together. He was impressed with your efforts. Keep it up, guys, and thank you for all the joy and information you've brought to my life. Cheers. That is from Bridget Foster in Melbourne.

• 58:43Josh Clark?

  Cheers with some Fosters.

• 58:45Speaker 02

  And I tell you what, Bridget, we're coming to Melbourne in September of next year for shows.

• 58:49Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 58:50Speaker 02

  And you write in with a friendly reminder and you and your family can get on the old guest list. How about that?

• 58:55Josh Clark?

  Awesome, man. Chuck, you're the guy.

• 58:58Speaker 02

  You're the guy. There, your pass is too.

• 59:00Josh Clark?

  All right, cool.

• 59:01Speaker 02

  Well, uh, thank you. I'm just giving them out.

• 59:03Josh Clark?

  Thanks a lot, Bridget. It was Bridget and family, right?

• 59:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, Bridget with a D.

• 59:07Josh Clark?

  Bridget, uh, thank you for writing in. And if you want to get in touch with us like Bridget did, you can send us an email, [email protected].

• 59:19Speaker 03

  Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

• 59:35Josh Clark?

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