(Don't Fear) The (Grim) Reaper

Cultures have come up with lots of personifications of death: Young and attractive? Yes. Riding a black buffalo? Check. Covered in tongues and eyeballs? Uh-huh. But in the West there’s only been one go-to soul taker for hundreds of years: The Grim Reaper. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:04Josh Clark?

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• 1:31Josh Clark?

  Listen to Voices of Vivgard on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:38Speaker 00

  Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio.

• 1:48Josh Clark?

  Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too, harvesting souls. And this is Stuff You Should Know, the podcast.

• 1:59Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 2:00Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I'm excited about this one. Chuck, do you want to know why?

• 2:04Speaker 02

  Why's that?

• 2:05Josh Clark?

  Well, mainly because it's Halloween-esque and I love Halloween.

• 2:08Speaker 02

  Sure. That's it?

• 2:10Josh Clark?

  No, that's not it. There's so much to know about the Grim Reaper. But the biggest thing that I've learned about the Grim Reaper is there's actually not that much to know about him. Because, listen, out of all of the different ways that death has been represented, the Grim Reaper is actually like the least invested with like lore or background or mythology. It's, it just is what it is, man.

• 2:35Speaker 02

  Is what it is, but we can talk about Bill and Ted at least.

• 2:39Josh Clark?

  For sure. Well, that's the spoiler. There's the best part of the whole episode.

• 2:43Speaker 02

  Oh, no. Well, that's coming in act three, so you got to stick around if you want to hear, you know, what Bill and Ted have to do with this.

• 2:49Josh Clark?

  That's right. So if you are not a Westerner, if you're one of our listeners who lives outside of the West, you might not be familiar with the Grim Reaper, although the chances are probably pretty slim. But I say that because the Grim Reaper is an entirely Western representation of death. All around the world, over the eons that humans have been around, there have been different ways of people like kind of putting a face on death. Not the faces of death, that's totally different. Putting a face on death itself, like death with a capital D.

• 3:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, you know, I guess the idea, or at least people speculate the idea behind this is if there's a, you know, a visible personification of an abstract scary thing like death that we're all going to face.

• 3:38Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 3:39Speaker 02

  That it might make it a little bit easier to face. And, you know, depending on what, what history and what religion and what culture you're looking at, there have been a lot of ways that that's been done over the years. Some, some kind of super scary and some not as scary.

• 3:53Josh Clark?

  Right. I found that pretty interesting too. Chuck, let's take it back a step, though. I'd like to talk in real depth about some creation myths.

• 4:02Speaker 02

  Great.

• 4:02Josh Clark?

  Just kidding. We'll just kind of cover this. This point, to me, is very important, that there's creation myths from all over the world, from all different cultures, that have some really like detailed stuff in common, like people being made out of clay. Or that there's like, like creation was supposed to be perfection at one point, but then some trickster figure came along, say a serpent, and managed to ruin the whole thing. And then what really kind of applies to this episode. In a lot of different creation myths, humans were originally intended to be immortal beings. But because they broke some rule through free will of their own, they became mortal.

• 4:44Josh Clark?

  Right? And the whole point of even bringing that up is that it's kind of like that, how long have people been aware of death? Well, since the first person witnessed the other first person dying.

• 4:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:56Josh Clark?

  This is kind of like codifying that in text. Our oldest myths that, that have ever been written down, that predate writing by centuries and probably thousands of years, all talk about people dying. Like that is a thing. That's part of the creation myth. It's that important. Right? So you can kind of chalk up, we've been thinking about death, at the very least, if not pretty scared of dying, you know, mortal terror and all that.

• 5:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:26Josh Clark?

  For, for a very long time, which I've now very beautifully set the table for talk about Grim Reaper and other personifications of death.

• 5:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, you know, like I said earlier, like sometimes depending on the culture, it could be something super scary. Sometimes it's a little more, I don't know about friendly, but yeah, I mean, maybe friendly. Like if you look at ancient Greece, they had Thanatos, who was a twin, I don't think I knew that until this. Thanatos had a twin brother, which was Hypnos, the god of sleep, like hypnosis. And they were, you know, they were young dudes. They weren't a chore to be around. Like both pretty handsome, I think. And Thanatos had a job and that was to, and as you'll see, this is a pretty common thing, of accompanying the dead to whatever their version of the afterlife is.

• 6:20Speaker 02

  In this case, it would be Hades.

• 6:23Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And he was friendly. Like you said, his catchphrase was, hi, guy, time to die.

• 6:30Josh Clark?

  And people loved it. They went crazy for it.

• 6:32Speaker 02

  That's pretty scary, actually.

• 6:34Josh Clark?

  Yeah, especially if he's got like a creepy smile.

• 6:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what I was picturing.

• 6:38Josh Clark?

  I guess. So yeah, he'd accompany you to Hades. He'd drop you off with Char, the ferryman who crossed the River Styx, took you across the River Styx, and then you were officially in the underworld, right? And the fact that Thanatos's job was to guide you, the dead person's spirit or soul, or whatever you want to call it, that makes him a very specific kind of personification of death, a psychopomp, which is, it's a pretty word to look at in some ways.

• 7:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. And that's, there has to be a band named Psychopomp.

• 7:11Josh Clark?

  Gotta be. Yeah.

• 7:13Speaker 02

  There's just no way. That one's too good to ignore, especially with the meaning of it and everything. Yeah, but that's one way you can go. It's generally kind of split in half as far as what your culture or religion personifies as death. You can be the psychopomp, which just sort of helps guide you to the afterlife and drop you off at the front door. Or you could be a collector. And that is like, you know, you know what that means. That means the Sith comes along and actually causes your death.

• 7:43Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And so there's, there's like psychopomps, it's a pretty recurring theme, like Anubis, the dog-headed god from Egyptian mythology.

• 7:52Speaker 02

  Love Anubis.

• 7:53Josh Clark?

  Psychopomp. Me too. I like him a lot.

• 7:55Speaker 02

  You know why?

• 7:56Josh Clark?

  Why?

• 7:57Speaker 02

  Because he's a good boy.

• 8:00Josh Clark?

  Oh, my God, he would smite you so quick for doing that?

• 8:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're right.

• 8:04Josh Clark?

  But I mean, I guess if he was to score you the afterlife anyway, you're dead already. So what do you have to lose?

• 8:09Speaker 02

  That's a good point.

• 8:11Josh Clark?

  Baron Somedy, who I had not heard the name of, but once I read the description of him, I'm like, oh, yeah, he's in The Man with the Golden Gun.

• 8:20Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, for sure. And just also, like, I think that's a, like, a lot of these things are, are things that you may not have heard of, but you recognize from either like a Grateful Dead sticker or, or like some other piece of pop culture.

• 8:35Josh Clark?

  Or a metal album cover art?

• 8:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, but definitely, I mean, yeah, which one was that? Live and Let Die?

• 8:41Josh Clark?

  I thought it was The Man with the Golden Gun, the one with Yaphet Kodo. Is it Live and Let Die? I think you're right. It is. It's Live and Let Die.

• 8:50Speaker 02

  I think Live and Let Die was the sort of voodoo centric one.

• 8:53Josh Clark?

  Yes, then that would be it. Yeah.

• 8:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:55Josh Clark?

  But Baron Somedy, he's depicted as a, often like a skeletal figure.

• 9:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:00Josh Clark?

  He wears a top hat. He wears a coat with tails. He also wears sunglasses all the time.

• 9:05Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 9:06Josh Clark?

  He, he drinks rum. He smokes cigars. He chases women. He tells dirty jokes.

• 9:10Speaker 02

  My kind of dude.

• 9:11Josh Clark?

  Yeah, he's like, he's, he's pretty interesting for sure. But he's a psychopomp because when you die, under Haitian voodoo tradition, he comes and digs you up and is like, let's go to the afterworld. And hey, you got a cigar on you?

• 9:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. And would you like a Mai Tai?

• 9:29Josh Clark?

  Yes, is the answer to that.

• 9:32Speaker 02

  The collector, again, that's a different thing. That, that actually causes the death. There are plenty of examples from this. There's one that comes from the UK, which is Anku. Comes from the Britain mythology and Welsh, mainly Welsh and Cornish traditions. And this, again, is a robed skeletal figure. You know, you're going to see these recurring themes over and over. And this, this guy actually carries an actual Sith. So I think kind of the first time we've seen that particular implement. And the Sith is used to cut down wheat and also cut down life short.

• 10:07Josh Clark?

  Yeah, or long, you know, when it's your time, that's how you go.

• 10:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's a good point.

• 10:11Josh Clark?

  Is Anku comes and takes you is the rhyme.

• 10:15Speaker 02

  Right, but Anku is not death, is not death is a, is a basically a shimp, an employee for death.

• 10:22Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and he's a collector, right? He's not guiding you anywhere. He doesn't care where you go after that. And that's like another subcategory you just touched on. He's a bureaucrat. There's like a whole, a whole type of personifications of death that are like, I just, I'm just here to do my job, man. Just, I'm sorry, I can't do anything for you. It's your time.

• 10:43Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 10:44Josh Clark?

  You know, you're now dead. Sorry. I gotta move on. Yeah, he punches the clock. So, and the Anku's a good example of that. And like you said, they're a worker for death. And it's actually a changing role. Like, you could be the Anku in your village if you wanted to. You just have to die at the right time.

• 11:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, if you're the first person to die that year, then you are the Anku, I guess, for the remainder of the year.

• 11:07Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And you die going, Anku, like you called it.

• 11:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:13Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I think that's pretty interesting. The bureaucrat thing also is like, like I said, it's kind of a recurring theme across cultures, including in the Bible.

• 11:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:25Josh Clark?

  So there's a lot of like, I don't really know my Bible that well, especially like real detailed stuff, but supposedly in the entire Bible, there is no angel of death named. There's an angel that's called the destroyer at one point, and then that's it. There's not really a lot of lore about who comes and gets you and, you know, takes you to heaven or whatever, or hell. Like, there's, there doesn't seem to be anything like that in the Bible. It's all just kind of been added over time through like, Christian fanfic, basically.

• 12:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, like Michael and Gabriel have both sort of taken that role as the angel of death and in the religion, but not like in the Bible. Like, there's no actual story in the Bible about Gabriel being the angel of death.

• 12:14Josh Clark?

  Right, but Michael and Gabriel, again, they're bureaucrats as angels of death. They're bureaucrats because they're working at the behest of God, who says, smite that guy.

• 12:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you know what you do then? You better smite that guy.

• 12:29Josh Clark?

  Yeah, you don't really have a choice because you will be the one who's smote.

• 12:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you don't get the pay bump either.

• 12:35Josh Clark?

  No, you get skipped over on your Christmas bonus thing.

• 12:38Speaker 02

  Should we take a break?

• 12:40Josh Clark?

  Yeah, we'll take a break and come back and talk a little more about angels of death because it's fun. And then I guess we'll start to get into the Grim Reaper, huh?

• 12:47Speaker 02

  Let's do it.

• 13:50Speaker 02

  All right. So before the break, we mentioned Michael and Gabriel in Judeo-Christian religion, but they also appear in the Islamic faith as death angels, as does the Islamic angel of death, who is Azrael, in this case. And Azrael can appear as a, this is maybe the creepiest image, I think, out of all these, as a spirit with eyes and tongues covering his entire body. That's, that's pretty, that's pretty good.

• 14:21Josh Clark?

  Yes, I wonder if he makes a la la la sound when he walks.

• 14:25Speaker 02

  Probably so. Or you ought to hear that thing run.

• 14:29Josh Clark?

  Just like wet slapping?

• 14:31Speaker 02

  All over the place.

• 14:32Josh Clark?

  So I've seen discrepancies on whether Azrael is the actual angel of death, or if the Malak Almat is, which is actually just Arabic for angel of death. But regardless of which one it is, they both perform the same function. They get handed down from Allah, a ledger every year, right before or right after Ramadan? I don't remember.

• 14:56Speaker 02

  I think it's the month before, yeah.

• 14:58Josh Clark?

  The month before, okay. And in that ledger, it's everyone who's going to die in the coming year. And that's it. You have what's called an ajal, right? Your fixed state of death. And there's not a lot you can do. And by a lot, I mean, there's nothing.

• 15:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, pretty much. I mean, get your hands on that ledger if you can.

• 15:19Josh Clark?

  I guess so. I'll bet you there's a story about that, about somebody trying that. And the lesson probably is, don't even try.

• 15:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, you know, as we'll see, there's a lot of, well, we'll get to that, but people trying to cheat death in various ways. That's coming soon. If you go back to the very, very most ancient of cultures, God like needs no helpers, basically. It's like, hey, I'm, I'm God, so I don't need bureaucrats to help me rid the planet of people. I can just do it myself. And that is the case with Motu, the god of the ancient Canaanites and Phoenicians. And there's also one in Hindu, right? This one sounds pretty cool. The Hindu, yeah, Yama rides a black buffalo and carries a noose. That's also a pretty, pretty creepy visual.

• 16:08Josh Clark?

  Yeah, uses it to capture the souls that he harvests, right?

• 16:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, not bad.

• 16:12Josh Clark?

  Yeah, but then he personally takes them into the underworld. And then he, like, I guess, puts a robe on. He takes his traveling sweater off and puts his robe on and judges that soul, right? So he does it all, for sure. Yeah, the pictures I've seen of Yama are pretty intense, but cool.

• 16:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I got no beef with the Valkyries either. They have appeared in the Marvel Universe, most recently, I guess, is where I've seen them. And they are Odin's messengers. But they also fly in, and these are attractive women on horses, like flying horses. So what's not to love?

• 16:50Josh Clark?

  I can't think of anything because I've heard they also smell like Strawberry Shortcake, the doll.

• 16:56Speaker 02

  Oh, man, you just made it creepy.

• 16:58Josh Clark?

  Did I? Is it creepy to sniff old Strawberry Shortcake dolls at the store?

• 17:03Speaker 02

  At the garage sale?

• 17:04Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 17:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, you'll get thrown out of a front yard for that.

• 17:07Josh Clark?

  Hasn't happened yet.

• 17:09Speaker 02

  All right, well, keep that run going.

• 17:11Josh Clark?

  Okay. I really do love that smell.

• 17:13Speaker 02

  Oh, do you really?

• 17:14Josh Clark?

  Yeah, man, it's one of the best smells ever. All of the different Strawberry Shortcakes smelled great.

• 17:19Speaker 02

  All right, I'll have to give them a sniff.

• 17:22Josh Clark?

  Didn't you have any girlfriends when you were little?

• 17:25Speaker 02

  No, I was raised Baptist. I wasn't allowed interaction with, with young girls.

• 17:28Josh Clark?

  I got you. Okay.

• 17:29Speaker 02

  When I was a young boy, I was, I was only allowed to go to boy, boy parties.

• 17:33Josh Clark?

  And none of them like Strawberry Shortcake?

• 17:35Speaker 02

  No, which also explains why I was so into the village people.

• 17:38Josh Clark?

  That's probably where that originates, yeah.

• 17:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:42Josh Clark?

  So you're talking about the Valkyries. They're a bunch of different atypical things rolled into one. One, they're, they're feminine personifications of death.

• 17:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:53Josh Clark?

  Which in the West typically is not, it's usually, it's almost always a man. In like a lot of Slavic cultures, it's a woman. But yeah, in Norse mythology, Valkyries are women. The other thing is, is they're bureaucrats and that they're coming and harvesting souls. They guide you. So they're also not just collectors, they're psychopomps. But the big thing that differentiates them is they're like, you, you're going to die. Like, they choose who, who lives and who dies.

• 18:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I think it's usually like a wartime thing. Like, on the battlefield, they'll choose, you know, who they think is the bravest, which isn't very good strategy for winning any war, but whatever, you know?

• 18:35Josh Clark?

  No, but I think they take them where they're needed more, which is Valhalla, to await the Ragnarok, or just Ragnarok, which I know all about, not from the Marvel Universe, but from our friend John Hodgman, who used to talk about it ceaselessly.

• 18:50Speaker 02

  I remember his Ragnarok days.

• 18:52Josh Clark?

  Yeah, he really went through a Ragnarok phase, for sure.

• 18:55Speaker 02

  What, I think we're finally, the capital T G R Grim Reaper, right? So this is the, this is the big daddy. This is the one here in the West that, you know, everybody has seen in movies and on glow-in-the-dark posters and various album covers as the, the robed, well, I was about to say skeleton, but the robe is kind of the thing that keeps, keeps it shrouded in mystery. So generally, you see like a robe and then sort of darkness, and then that's it.

• 19:29Josh Clark?

  Yeah, but sometimes the giveaway is that it's a skeletal hand holding the scythe.

• 19:33Speaker 02

  Ah, true.

• 19:34Josh Clark?

  Skeletal finger pointing at you and you're like pointing yourself and looking around like me.

• 19:40Speaker 02

  So what you're saying is the skull is assumed because it matches the hand.

• 19:45Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And then also it does like the Grim Reaper is often depicted like with a with a skull, without the hood on or anything like that.

• 19:54Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 19:56Josh Clark?

  So let's talk about this, right? Because there's some, all of them symb- symb- symbologically? Is that a word?

• 20:02Speaker 02

  I think it is. Yeah. I like symbologically, actually.

• 20:05Josh Clark?

  I do too. It sounds more academic, you know?

• 20:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, let's go with it.

• 20:08Josh Clark?

  Okay, so symbologically, all of these things are, they're kind of obvious in a lot of ways, but they really work, even if they are a little on the nose. But the, I said earlier that the Grim Reaper's almost loreless. He's got no backstory. He's not some cursed soul who has to, you know,

• 20:27Speaker 02

  Right.

• 20:28Josh Clark?

  rove the earth for eternity. Didn't do anything wrong, as far as I know. It's not fat domino. I looked and it's, he just doesn't have a backstory. And the reason why is because he was assembled from different parts and pieces over the course of centuries before he finally, it wasn't until like the 1850s where he had been fully packaged into what we think of as the Grim Reaper. But he had been kind of slowly assembling like a death-based Voltron or something.

• 20:59Speaker 02

  Right.

• 21:00Josh Clark?

  Since the, since the 13th century, basically.

• 21:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, if you go back to European religion in the Middle Ages, you kind of get your first representation of the angel of death as a skeleton. Uh, I think that was from a 13th century illustration called The Three Living and the Three Dead, where you had these three skeletons wearing burial shrouds. They have maggots crawling all over them. Uh, one of the skeletons is like peeking out from the page.

• 21:29Josh Clark?

  It's cool.

• 21:30Speaker 02

  Like, looking at the reader and smiling. Yeah, it's a totally cool illustration.

• 21:35Josh Clark?

  Yeah. I mean, it's a big, like, not even a mean or like, um, scary smile. Like, it's a big grin. Like, hey, good to see you, kind of thing. I love that picture.

• 21:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, me too.

• 21:48Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it's not knowing, like, I know what's gonna happen to you and you're not gonna like it, kind of thing.

• 21:53Speaker 02

  Yeah. Uh, if we really want to see where this took hold, it, you gotta look at the Black Death, which I figure, it seems like we've talked about that several times semi-recently.

• 22:02Josh Clark?

  I think we did an entire episode on it.

• 22:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was a while ago, but it's just popped up here and there about.

• 22:08Josh Clark?

  Has it?

• 22:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, just like how many people died, which was at least 25 million people in the initial outbreak. And I know we talked about this in the episode, but it changed the way, like, so many people died, it changed the way that people thought about death. Like, everyone knew death was eventually coming. But when the, when the plague hit, death was at the forefront of everybody's mind all the time.

• 22:33Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that initial outbreak over just a couple of years, the estimates are something like 30 to 50% of the entire population of Europe at the time. And everybody, men, women, babies, old people, rich people, poor people, everyone just started dying. And the living were subjected to living among the dead. And yeah, how could that not just completely alter not just you and then the people who are young and being impressed upon for the rest of their life, but just society as a whole?

• 23:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. I mean, that was the, there was a morbid pall that hung over a continent for a long time. And that, you know, the, the books that were coming out, the poems and the odes and the paintings, like, all this stuff was pretty dark at the time. You saw a lot of skeletons. Never seen more skeletons in your life in paintings than during the plague. Uh, and then.

• 23:27Josh Clark?

  Everybody was talking about.

• 23:29Speaker 02

  It was the hot thing. Uh, and then eventually that would lead to the, the Dance Macabre or the Dance of Death.

• 23:36Josh Clark?

  Yes, which I have, I think Dance Macabre, D-A-N-S-E-M-A-C-A-B-R-E.

• 23:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:44Josh Clark?

  Is really cool term.

• 23:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, it, it, it looks like a band name or an album, like dark metal album cover or something.

• 23:52Josh Clark?

  I think it was a, um, a nonfiction book that Stephen King wrote in the 80s too, if I'm not mistaken.

• 24:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's something about a slight misspelling as we know it that ups the creep factor. If it was D-A-N-C-E, it is 75% less scary.

• 24:10Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Uh, remember that band Dead Can Dance?

• 24:14Speaker 02

  Was that with a C?

• 24:16Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 24:17Speaker 02

  If they would have made it with an S, you know how scary that band becomes?

• 24:20Josh Clark?

  I know. They would have only gotten booked around this time of year, you know?

• 24:25Speaker 02

  This is the one where I think of the Grateful Dead sticker. Uh, I don't know if that is strictly a Dance Macabre, but the skeletons dancing, like, that's what that is, right?

• 24:36Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I think anytime you see skeletons dancing, it somehow, some way has its roots in the Dance Macabre. Because that's how, that was the depiction. It was skeletons cavorting, dancing, partying with the living.

• 24:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:48Josh Clark?

  And in a lot of cases, the living depicted in these images, like, are clearly aren't aware that the skeletons are partying with them.

• 24:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:56Josh Clark?

  But they are nonetheless. So death is always around you. And then another part of it is like, they would sometimes dance and party, lead the party right to the grave. And that was, you know, everybody's going to end up there eventually. That's essentially the basic message of the, the Dance of Death. But it goes even deeper than that, really.

• 25:15Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah. And actually, I don't do this often, but I just looked up and apparently there was an actual event called Dance Macabre, featuring the Grateful Dead. And, uh, who else? Country Joe and the Fish.

• 25:27Josh Clark?

  Back in the 60s?

• 25:30Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, I think it was 1966.

• 25:31Josh Clark?

  That's awesome.

• 25:33Speaker 02

  Because, you know, if you want to evoke death, you gotta have, uh, "I'm gonna go to the country."

• 25:40Josh Clark?

  Oh, is that Country Joe and the Fish?

• 25:42Speaker 02

  I think so. Isn't that like their one big song?

• 25:44Josh Clark?

  I don't know. Oh my God, that's hilarious.

• 25:47Speaker 02

  That song is just, I don't know why, it's endlessly funny to me.

• 25:51Josh Clark?

  That, that'll change the tone of an acid test, like, in a snap.

• 25:55Speaker 02

  Uh, I diverted it, so where were we?

• 25:58Josh Clark?

  We were talking about the, the Dance Macabre is basically like death is inevitable, but there's more to it. And the, really the more to it was also like the people who are often depicted in the Dance Macabre illustrations were from all stations in life, right? So there could be like the Pope, and there could be like a peasant and, you know, some merchant or whatever, just a bunch of different people meant to just basically say like, death does not care about your social strata. It, it just levels everybody.

• 26:27Speaker 02

  My brother and I used to crack up at the Black Sabbath line. "Would you like to see the Pope at the end of a rope? Do you think he's a fool?"

• 26:40Speaker 02

  For some reason, maybe it was because soap on a rope? I don't know. My brother just thought that was the funniest thing ever.

• 26:44Josh Clark?

  That is pretty good. Which one is that from?

• 26:47Speaker 02

  I don't even know.

• 26:48Josh Clark?

  It sounds familiar, but I can't place the, the song.

• 26:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I never thought I would literally sing twice in this episode. Didn't see that coming.

• 26:56Josh Clark?

  Maybe, maybe there's a third time coming too.

• 26:58Speaker 02

  I don't.

• 26:59Josh Clark?

  You know any Dead Can Dance songs?

• 27:01Speaker 02

  I don't. But they had a hit, right?

• 27:03Josh Clark?

  I don't know. I just, I knew they were good. They had a weird, they had their own unique sound, if I'm thinking of the right one. I often confused them with Rusted Root, and I think they were like nothing alike. I think Dead Can Dance was way more like goth and dark, but also Sigur ros-y, maybe?

• 27:20Speaker 02

  Oh, I love Sigur ros.

• 27:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah, well, you'd probably like Dead Can Dance.

• 27:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:24Josh Clark?

  I think the guy also sung like Ian Curtis from Joy Division 2 a little bit.

• 27:28Speaker 02

  Oh, well, that's good.

• 27:29Josh Clark?

  I could be making this up, but I'm, I'm putting together an ideal band.

• 27:33Speaker 02

  Right.

• 27:34Josh Clark?

  As I, as I speak.

• 27:35Speaker 02

  So, but it wasn't like, uh, "Boingo boingo, it's a dead man's party."

• 27:41Josh Clark?

  No.

• 27:42Speaker 02

  "Who can ask for more?"

• 27:43Josh Clark?

  Do you know who the lead singer was of that, that band?

• 27:47Speaker 02

  Come on, seriously?

• 27:49Josh Clark?

  I didn't know. I should have known, but.

• 27:52Speaker 02

  Wait, you didn't, when did you find that out?

• 27:54Josh Clark?

  No, no, I didn't know that you knew, but I should have known that you knew.

• 27:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:58Josh Clark?

  I found that out. Man, I was like, I was in diapers when I knew that.

• 28:02Speaker 02

  Uh, the, the great Danny Elfman, for those of you who don't know. Uh, and I'm, I'm not shaming you if you didn't know that, by the way. I, I did just see, by the way, I just sang a third time.

• 28:11Josh Clark?

  Yeah, you did.

• 28:13Speaker 02

  Danny Elfman at a music festival recently did the Simpsons theme onstage.

• 28:20Speaker 02

  And it's pretty great.

• 28:21Josh Clark?

  Man alive. I'll bet it is.

• 28:23Speaker 02

  Can you imagine? Yeah.

• 28:23Josh Clark?

  Where did you, what music festival?

• 28:26Speaker 02

  I don't know. I just saw it on Instagram. It popped up.

• 28:29Josh Clark?

  I thought you went to the music.

• 28:30Speaker 02

  Oh, no, no, no.

• 28:31Josh Clark?

  I don't know.

• 28:32Speaker 02

  I don't go to this anymore. I'm too old for that stuff.

• 28:35Josh Clark?

  But that is cool. I'm glad you told me. I'll have to go check it out.

• 28:38Speaker 02

  Uh, all right. So back to the Dance Macabre.

• 28:41Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 28:41Speaker 02

  Um, did you mention the first depiction of that?

• 28:44Josh Clark?

  No.

• 28:45Speaker 02

  The first one, I think, was a big mural on the wall of the, uh, Charnel House at the cemetery of the Holy Innocents in Paris in the 1420s. Uh, but then it became a, a kind of a play where you would perform this at like, you would get some churchgoers together and perform it in a cemetery or churchyard or something. And it's basically a, a play that says like, hey, uh, death is coming for you and you and you, and we all understand this, right?

• 29:15Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm. Yeah. Can't you just imagine the kind of spread out like sporadic claptor at the end?

• 29:24Josh Clark?

  People standing around the graveyard watching it.

• 29:27Speaker 02

  Oh, man. Worst performance ever.

• 29:30Josh Clark?

  Should we take a break or talk about some of the symbology?

• 29:34Speaker 02

  No, I'm all out of songs, so let's take a break and we'll come back.

• 29:37Josh Clark?

  You could sing "I'm All Out of Love" first.

• 29:40Speaker 02

  That's for you only, buddy.

• 29:42Josh Clark?

  Okay. All right. We'll take a break and you can sing it to me then.

• 30:47Josh Clark?

  Okay, that was a great rendition, Chuck. I actually teared up a little bit, so thank you for that. I feel like it really kind of reinvigorated our partnership.

• 30:57Speaker 02

  Well, I know how you feel about Air Supply.

• 30:59Josh Clark?

  So, I love them. I told you about that time, you, me, and I went and saw them in Jacksonville, and I said it was like a church tent revival somehow. It was amazing to just be there and experience that.

• 31:09Speaker 02

  That's so cool.

• 31:10Josh Clark?

  Yeah. So, we're talking about the symbolism of the Grim Reaper, which I said earlier is pretty, you can, just if you stop and think about all of it, you're like, yeah, of course that makes sense. But I don't know how much of that is because you're just so used to seeing the Grim Reaper with like, say Scythe or the Hourglass or whatever.

• 31:31Josh Clark?

  Or if it's because they were already common sense elements that were added over the years to create the whole Grim Reaper package.

• 31:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've been saying Scythe. Have I been saying it wrong this whole time?

• 31:43Josh Clark?

  I think you were talking about the Dark Lords, the anti-Jedi.

• 31:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Oh, well.

• 31:51Josh Clark?

  So, it makes sense. They're kind of evil.

• 31:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, Scythe, isn't it?

• 31:56Josh Clark?

  I think so.

• 31:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you're very sweet for not correcting me.

• 32:00Josh Clark?

  I didn't want to upset you.

• 32:03Speaker 02

  You didn't want to upset me like all the other times where I'm like, Josh, never do that again.

• 32:08Josh Clark?

  I know, man. If we had an outtake reel of you yelling at me for correcting you, it'd be something else.

• 32:14Speaker 02

  Well, hopefully it would live with the best of those, like Casey Kasem and Bill O'Reilly. Those are so great.

• 32:21Josh Clark?

  Winnebago Man?

• 32:23Speaker 02

  Oh, well, sure. They made a whole documentary about that guy.

• 32:25Josh Clark?

  Yeah, he was great.

• 32:27Speaker 02

  All right, so back to the Grim Reaper and the symbolism, you know, we've, you're not surprised to hear us talk about skulls and skeletons, of course, and this was just a common thing during the plague. Like, people saw more bones than they'd ever seen in their life. And so, that became just a popular depiction, obviously, in that era.

• 32:45Josh Clark?

  Yeah. I think it's interesting, don't you, that you can basically place an event that essentially gave us the Grim Reaper because it was so awful?

• 32:54Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 32:55Josh Clark?

  So, you talked about the cloak, and the black cloak, specifically in the West, black is associated with death and mourning and funerals. I mean, have you ever seen a, like a bottle green hearse? You haven't?

• 33:09Speaker 02

  No.

• 33:10Josh Clark?

  Sometimes they're white, though. I feel like I've seen a white hearse here or there.

• 33:14Speaker 02

  Wasn't the hearse in Six Feet Under green?

• 33:18Josh Clark?

  Maybe so.

• 33:20Speaker 02

  Isn't that weird that you said green?

• 33:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 33:22Speaker 02

  A literal, cultural green hearse?

• 33:26Josh Clark?

  Yeah, to contradict me.

• 33:28Speaker 02

  Right.

• 33:31Speaker 02

  I think it's bottle green. I don't even know what that is, but.

• 33:35Josh Clark?

  Yeah, bottle green is like a green from the 70s, a car green, not metallic P. This is a different, kind of like darker, more attractive green than metallic P.

• 33:46Speaker 02

  All right, let's talk about that Scythe.

• 33:48Josh Clark?

  Okay. The Scythe itself is, this one is the, this is the money implement, if you ask me, but it's not exactly clear what the Grim Reaper's doing with this, right? So, earlier, the Grim Reaper used to hold the arrow or darts.

• 34:04Speaker 02

  Nah.

• 34:04Josh Clark?

  Guess he was a dart champion at his local pub.

• 34:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:07Josh Clark?

  It's spear. What about a spear?

• 34:09Speaker 02

  That's creepy, yeah.

• 34:10Josh Clark?

  What about a crossbow?

• 34:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, that's scary, but I think some, I think, I could see a Grim Reaper with a spear

• 34:19Speaker 02

  in my mind's eye more than I could a crossbow.

• 34:21Josh Clark?

  I'm sure the crossbow would be distracting because a lot of people would be like, man, can I see that thing? I want to hold the crossbow. It's pretty cool.

• 34:28Speaker 02

  Have you ever shot one?

• 34:30Josh Clark?

  I don't think I have. I've just always admired them. Remember, we did a whole episode on them?

• 34:35Speaker 02

  Did we really?

• 34:36Josh Clark?

  We totally did.

• 34:37Speaker 02

  Oh, good lord.

• 34:38Josh Clark?

  I think we both kind of fanboyed out the whole time.

• 34:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, so eventually it became the Scythe, and, you know, it was, I think I said earlier, like, this thing was used with a big swing to bring down a lot of grain. So, I think just sort of, symbolologically, the idea of a Scythe, like, sweeping through and taking out humans is like a pretty good visual, or, you know, at least creepy.

• 35:06Josh Clark?

  Right, especially during a plague like the Black Death, where a lot of people were cut down at the same time. So, and that's where the Scythe got added, was out of that experience, right? So, it totally makes sense. Plus, also, this is like an agrarian society, so Scythe, like, that whole allegory of death coming along to harvest souls in just the same way that a farmer comes along and harvests wheat, and say, like, the fall, when the earth itself is about to die, all of it is, it's a pretty good analogy, I think, or it's a pretty good prop.

• 35:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:42Josh Clark?

  The question is, does the Grim Reaper use the Scythe to cut you down and take your life? Or is he just holding the Scythe because it's just part of his whole, his whole look? That's unclear. The fact that he used to hold arrows and darts and spears and crossbows makes it seem like the Scythe is the implement he uses to cut your life out. He also used to carry a candle snuffer, I saw sometimes, so that makes it seem like he's actively taking your life. But if you think about, like, more modern depictions of the Grim Reaper, maybe once in a while, if he touches you, I think there was a Grim Reaper that touched your head and it killed you. I don't remember on what. But for the most part, he's just there.

• 36:24Josh Clark?

  He's like a bureaucrat collector is basically what he seems to be depicted as mostly these days.

• 36:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, so like, he walks up, you see the Scythe, and you're like, oh, and he goes, that's just for show. Don't worry about the Scythe.

• 36:38Josh Clark?

  It's made of plastic.

• 36:40Speaker 02

  That's right, and he bends the blade, like, see?

• 36:43Josh Clark?

  It's a retractable scythe blade.

• 36:48Speaker 02

  The Hourglass is another symbol, you know, obviously, you know what an Hourglass is. It has the two bulbs with the sand, and I believe it takes an hour for the sand to fall from one bulb to the next. But if the Grim Reaper walks up to you, or, here's a fun trick, get like a foot tall Hourglass and just like, walk up to somebody's table in an outdoor cafe with a creepy look on your face, and look him in the eye and turn it upside down and walk away and leave it on their table.

• 37:18Speaker 02

  The message isn't, you know, if you finish that meal before the Hourglass is up, it's free.

• 37:25Josh Clark?

  I would take it like that.

• 37:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:28Josh Clark?

  So, yeah, the Hourglass also, I mean, now you're conflating time with death, right? Everybody has a certain amount of time. So, yeah, I mean, you put all those together, you got yourself a Grim Reaper. There's not too many other implements. He's pretty, he travels light, I guess, as J.J. Cale put it.

• 37:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:46Josh Clark?

  I don't know. That's not necessarily true. So, he rides a horse if the Grim Reaper is also considered the same as the, for the Horseman Death, who rode a pale horse to bring about the apocalypse along with war, pestilence, and famine.

• 38:04Speaker 02

  In the Bible, that is.

• 38:05Josh Clark?

  I should say that, yes. So, the reason we bring that up, well, you brought it up, is because that Horseman, one of the four Horsemen, was, is often depicted as looking identical to the Grim Reaper. He's just on a horse.

• 38:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, you got pestilence, you got war, you got famine, you got death, and those are the four equestrians.

• 38:27Josh Clark?

  That's right. I guess Death is the only one that's specifically named in the Bible, and they call him Thanatos.

• 38:34Speaker 02

  Oh, really? All right, from the ancient Greek.

• 38:37Josh Clark?

  I guess so. He was supposed to be friendly, not, you know, a Horseman of the Apocalypse. Something happened to him. I guess some, he got dumped and took it really hard, maybe?

• 38:48Josh Clark?

  And do you remember I said that he didn't come as a full package until the middle of the 19th century? That's when he finally got the name, the Grim Reaper, and it came from a Christian devotional text called Circle of Human Life. That's where the name Grim Reaper originally came from.

• 39:05Speaker 02

  I love it. Do we know who wrote that?

• 39:07Josh Clark?

  No.

• 39:08Speaker 02

  All right.

• 39:09Josh Clark?

  Jack Handy.

• 39:13Speaker 02

  Well, now we're at the part where we can talk about a little bit more of the fun stuff in pop culture. We promised to talk of Bill and Ted, but that, the way it's handled in Bill and Ted is the way that it's handled in a lot of cases, like I mentioned, is where someone's trying to cheat death. A lot of times in stories and movies and books and stuff, it's like someone's trying to trick the Grim Reaper to escape death, maybe steal that scythe, maybe break that hourglass or something. And it can be funny, obviously, in the case of Bill and Ted's, or it can be very symbolic and kind of heavy if you're talking about Bergman's The Seventh Seal.

• 39:50Josh Clark?

  I've never seen The Seventh Seal, have you?

• 39:53Speaker 02

  No, I mean, I've seen clips of it in film classes and stuff, but it's, you know, that type of Bergman stuff is a tough watch for me.

• 40:03Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I've seen it depicted in like perfume ads sometimes.

• 40:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 40:09Josh Clark?

  You know, like, they always seem to be kind of tapping into that somehow. But essentially, it's like an existential angst type movie where in this film, very famously, a crusader, a knight on his way back from the Crusades, finds death waiting for him. And to basically say like, I'm not ready to die yet. How about this death? Let's play a game of chess. And death, I guess, kind of bored is like, all right, let's, um, let's play. And death actually loses. I don't know what happens after that, but the upshot of The Seventh Seal, and mentioning this personification of death, is because if you ever see death in a black cloak with just a white, like, super pale face, they're pointing to The Seventh Seal, that depiction of death.

• 40:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, for sure. And that's where, exactly where Bill and Ted were trying to pull from, because they challenge him to a game, except in this case, it's Battleship.

• 41:07Josh Clark?

  Yes. And if you want to find a piece of bizarre AI slop, go look up the enigmatic legacy of William Sadler's Grim Reaper. It's the strangest article I've ever read. And I, you didn't get to read it, did you? I sent it to you and you said it came up with a virus alert?

• 41:30Speaker 02

  He sent me two links that were both virus alerts, to the point where I thought someone had, like, hijacked your phone or something.

• 41:39Josh Clark?

  No, this is really a thing. I stumbled upon it. William Sadler is the guy, the actor, the very frequently used character actor who plays death in Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey. But this article writes about it as if the cultural impact of his, his depiction of death was just so sweeping and so wide that it changed art forever, basically. It's just completely mad and made up. And then even more bizarre, the pictures in it are all of Prince William. There's no, and he doesn't look anything like that. It's just normal stock photos of Prince William. And I want to know what AI tests produce that, because it is a very strange article. I just happened to stumble upon.

• 42:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. I think I'd rather hear your description of it, actually. That's more fun.

• 42:26Josh Clark?

  It's pretty funny to read, though, in itself. Sure. So what else?

• 42:31Speaker 02

  Well, you've got the Blue Oyster Cult, or just Blue Oyster Cult, and their cowbell-heavy song, Don't Fear the Reaper, of course. Don't fear in parentheses.

• 42:41Josh Clark?

  The Reaper. I don't know why they did that, because they never, they never just say the Reaper. It's always, don't fear the Reaper.

• 42:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, that, the 70s, they were just wild about the parentheticals for some reason.

• 42:52Josh Clark?

  Yeah, they were. Like, I'm All Out of Love by Air Supply.

• 42:59Josh Clark?

  Did you read that poem by Emily Dickinson, Because I Could Not Stop For Death?

• 43:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, I read that in college.

• 43:05Josh Clark?

  I had never read it before, and I went and read it today. And it is a beautiful, it's a nice short read, very crisp, efficient, economical. And it's just basically about her riding in a cart through death and going past all the phases of her life until she ends up at the grave. And she seems pretty okay with it.

• 43:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, ED, one of the best.

• 43:25Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it's definitely worth reading, everybody. Of course, The Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come was very clearly based on the Grim Reaper, although that's often depicted as somebody you just don't see, like, you don't see necessarily as a skeleton. It's just basically hidden in shadow.

• 43:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, for sure.

• 43:47Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And I think that's a, it's a great inclusion by Dickens.

• 43:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. I want to throw out Death Takes a Holiday, because that was actually remade into a pretty bad movie. The 1934 film was supposed to be good. I never saw it, but it was about death's decision to take a break, basically, and like, take a mortal form and see what that's like. And the 1998 remake was, of course, Meet Joe Black with Brad Pitt as death. And it's, I never saw it, because it was, it's pretty legendarily bad.

• 44:17Josh Clark?

  Oh, you didn't see it? It is as bad as you think. He just has, he acts blank. And it's, you get the impression that he's just kind of being himself in a lot of ways.

• 44:26Speaker 02

  Oh, interesting.

• 44:27Josh Clark?

  It's, it's a very strange, he made some strange choices. Almost as strange as the voice he used as the Amish man in 12 Years a Slave, which almost, almost threw the entire movie off the rails. It was such a weird decision. It's so weird. But there's a Simpsons treehouse of horror that kind of plays off of that.

• 44:48Speaker 02

  Of Meet Joe Black?

• 44:49Josh Clark?

  A little bit, or Death Takes a Holiday, where Homer accidentally kills death, and so everybody stops dying. So Homer actually has to become death. And it's just, it's a really good one, for sure. I think it's called Reaper Madness.

• 45:04Speaker 02

  That's so good. God.

• 45:06Josh Clark?

  They are so great.

• 45:07Speaker 02

  I did just see Obsession, by the way. Not about the Grim Reaper, but I know that you had recommended that. I finally checked it out.

• 45:13Josh Clark?

  It's a good one, isn't it?

• 45:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I thought it was good. You know, a pretty clever idea done well.

• 45:20Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I don't remember the name of the actor, but the, the main girlfriend.

• 45:25Speaker 02

  She was so good.

• 45:27Josh Clark?

  Somebody was saying she's, she's, there's like Oscar buzz around her, and it would be a really unusual, non-traditional Oscar. But if you get actors Oscars for their performance, she definitely should be in the running, for sure.

• 45:40Speaker 02

  No, she was, she was fantastic.

• 45:43Josh Clark?

  It was great, though, but not as good as Back Rooms.

• 45:49Speaker 02

  I think I liked it more as far as enjoying a movie, but I thought Back Rooms was definitely more kind of creative and out there, you know?

• 45:57Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I got shouted down at dinner last night with you, me, and our, my sister-in-law, brother-in-law, and niece. All of them didn't like Back Rooms either.

• 46:05Speaker 02

  Oh, I liked Back Rooms. I just, it fell apart for me more after I sort of thought about it more, but, but I did, I did like it, for sure. But I liked Obsession more.

• 46:18Josh Clark?

  I got you. And then there's a third one I can't think of right now. Oh, yeah. Disclosure Day? I didn't see that. Is that any good or not? Didn't you see it?

• 46:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's on the theater. Yeah, I like, a really good Steven Spielberg movie, I thought.

• 46:32Josh Clark?

  I'll check it out.

• 46:33Speaker 02

  Not scary, though.

• 46:34Josh Clark?

  You know how sometimes when you don't hear as much buzz about something as you expect to, you just presume it wasn't very good? That's kind of what happened with me in that movie.

• 46:42Speaker 02

  I mean, I don't think it lit it up, lit the critics on fire, but I thought it was good. Had a little bit of Spielberg magic.

• 46:49Josh Clark?

  Let's rattle off a couple more very famous or very creative uses of the Grim Reaper, okay?

• 46:56Speaker 02

  All right, what you got?

• 46:57Josh Clark?

  The Discworld novels by Terry Pratchett. Death is actually a main character who comes to become very fond of humans, and is kind of a offbeat take on death. Death rides a horse, a pale horse, but the horse is named Binky, and Death has a granddaughter named Susan. So it kind of gives you a rough sketch of what, what the Discworld novels, the fantasy novels are like. They sound pretty good.

• 47:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, haven't heard of those.

• 47:24Josh Clark?

  Have you ever seen Dead Like Me?

• 47:29Speaker 02

  Which, who is in that? Was that Christine Applegate?

• 47:31Josh Clark?

  I don't, no, no, that's, um, oh, what was that movie? That was a good one, too. Or not a movie, a TV show. I can't remember what it was called.

• 47:40Speaker 02

  Dead something, wasn't it?

• 47:41Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I don't remember what that was. No, this is different. It's about a girl who dies. And rather than going on, she gets recruited to be a Grim Reaper. So kind of like Anku. It's like, recently killed people have to act as Grim Reapers. It's pretty cute.

• 47:56Speaker 02

  Ah, okay.

• 47:58Josh Clark?

  And then there's The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy, the cartoon. It's pretty great.

• 48:03Speaker 02

  Haven't heard of that.

• 48:04Josh Clark?

  And then let's end this on MST 3K. One of the best Mystery Science Theater 3,000 episodes ever was Soul Taker. And it has Joe Estevez in it as the main Soul Taker, and I can't remember the other actor's name. He's got a, very famously has an enormous face. But they are these, like, again, recently dead dudes who are tasked with collecting souls into these rubber glow rings, essentially, and then they take you to the afterworld.

• 48:37Speaker 02

  What's the name of that one?

• 48:38Josh Clark?

  Soul Taker.

• 48:41Speaker 02

  Soul Taker with, actor with a famously large face.

• 48:45Josh Clark?

  At least if you are familiar with B and C movies, he is famous for his very large face.

• 48:52Speaker 02

  Hmm. I'm gonna have to see who that guy is.

• 48:56Josh Clark?

  You should. You could also see Ninja Cop. He's in, he's a bad guy in Ninja Cop, too.

• 49:02Speaker 02

  And that actor's name is Robert Zadar.

• 49:06Josh Clark?

  Yes, that's exactly right. I would never have come up with it, but yes, I've heard that, that before.

• 49:12Speaker 02

  That's a dude.

• 49:13Josh Clark?

  Okay, well, Chuck just found out the name of Robert Zadar. And as predicted in 2008, when Jerry broke open that envelope containing the eighth seal, we just triggered listener mail.

• 49:29Speaker 02

  That's right. This is by a cat named Chester. Hey, guys, my family and I have enjoyed your show. And I recently got my 10-year-old interested on road trips and playing out loud to help my kid to go to sleep. Your voices are becoming a regular sound in my home. However, I have a cat named Chester who's taken to digging at my phone when I play your podcast out loud. He's gotten so irritated by your voices that it's become a routine to move my phone around, or literally hold him back while playing your show. I've experimented with, because this is my question, is like, is it everything? I've experimented with music and other podcasts, but it's just you. When I play just your podcast, he is set on destroying you two. Help, guys, my screen is getting scratched. Please apologize

• 50:13Speaker 02

  to Chester for whatever you did that offended him. He's a smart cat. He might forgive you. And we can listen to you in peace in my house again. That is Lasko and family. So Chester, we want to say to you.

• 50:26Josh Clark?

  Meow, meow, meow.

• 50:31Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And meow, meow, meow, from me as well. Meow.

• 50:35Speaker 02

  Agreed.

• 50:37Josh Clark?

  Well, thank you from Lasko and family. And again, meow, Chester. Really, meow, from the bottom of our meow. If you want to be like Lasko and get in touch with us, you can send us an email. Send it off to [email protected].

• 51:00Speaker 00

  Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

• 51:15Josh Clark?

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