Short Stuff: The Retirement Curse

Is retirement bad for your health? Well it certainly can be if you don't take steps to prevent it. Listen in to learn more about the "retirement curse." See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:20Josh Clark?

  Hey, and welcome to the Short Stuff. Josh, Chuck, Jerry, Dave, Short Stuff, tally ho.

• 1:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're talking about retirement today, and specifically what can be referred to as the retirement curse, which is this idea that, you know, maybe you're doing fine in life and you're chugging along at your job, and then you retire and you encounter all sorts of problems, maybe mental health problems, maybe physical health problems. And retirement can be the trigger to that kind of thing.

• 1:54Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I mean, I think it's one of those things where a lot of people are familiar with it anecdotally, like maybe they've seen somebody, you know, just their health declines very quickly, or it's just something changes for the worse from retirement, and it's actually quantifiable. And apparently, five to six years after retirement, this is just the average American, I suspect it's not quite as bad elsewhere. And in fact, I couldn't find mention of the retirement curse as we're presenting it anywhere else. It does seem to be a semi-American phenomenon.

• 2:28Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 2:29Josh Clark?

  But there's this, the average American shows a 6% to 9% decline in mental health within the first five to six years after retirement, a 5% to 6% increase in illness condition, right?

• 2:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:42Josh Clark?

  A 5% to 16% increase in difficulties with daily activities. And when they control all the other variables, they're like, it seems to be retirement. But of course, retirement itself is not doing this to you. It's all the life changes that come from retirement.

• 3:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. It's that transition. How you deal with that is really, really key, and something that you've really got to think about going into it. I hope if you're a person of retirement age, you've got a plan in place. We're gonna talk more about that, but it seems like the worst cases are when people just retire and all of a sudden they're like, wait a minute, I have my days free all the time, I'm not going to this place anymore. If you went to an office, let's say, I'm not surrounded by people every day that I normally might be. You know, going to work is, is mental engagement and, you know, even if you're not doing like hard labor, just getting up and getting out of bed and going to an office and moving about

• 3:43Speaker 01

  the world represents some kind of physical activity. And especially if, when you retire, you just kind of hit the couch or the recliner. That's, that's a big difference.

• 3:53Josh Clark?

  Yeah, also, like those people that you're interacting with, even if you work from home, just interacting with them on calls or via email, like you don't have that all of a sudden. If you start emailing those same people, they're like, you retired, go do your thing. I'm trying to work here.

• 4:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:09Josh Clark?

  You know, they don't let you in on calls any longer. And so if you don't already have a pretty tight circle of friends outside of work, which a lot of Americans do not.

• 4:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:18Josh Clark?

  Especially as you get older, it just gets harder and harder to make friends. And because you spend a lot of your time at work, those people become your friends de facto. If you don't have that network already in place, you need to go figure out how to do it because that is probably ultimately what's behind the decline more than anything.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. And like we said, we need, you need to have a plan in place for, you know, we'll talk about exercise and social engagement and stuff like that, or maybe just keep working or work part-time or volunteer. And maybe we'll take a break and talk a little bit about those work statistics right after this.

• 4:56Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 5:10Josh Clark?

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• 6:10Speaker 03

  First thought is like, wow, how are we gonna do all this?

• 6:13Josh Clark?

  Hey, this is Josh and Chuck from Stuff You Should Know.

• 6:16Speaker 01

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• 6:39Josh Clark?

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• 7:03Josh Clark?

  AT&T, connecting fans to what they love.

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• 7:17Speaker 01

  All right, I got this from the Bureau of Labor Statistics here in the United States, kind of the picture over the years of when people stop working. I think in 1948, the, the rate of people aged 65 and older working was 27%. 47% of men, 9% of women. Age 65 and older started trending down in the latter half of the 20th century and hit its lowest point in 1985, and only 10% of people over the age of 65 were working. And since 1985, that started to grow, grow and started to trend upward, like people working later and later.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  Because sometimes economic necessity, sometimes just preference. And then the last year I have had available at least was 2024, when it was about 19% of people aged 65 and over are still working, and I think 38% of those were doing so part-time.

• 8:16Josh Clark?

  Right. You can also, like the fact that it hit its low point in 1985, that's just about the time the unions got broken up and pensions went away and got replaced by 401Ks.

• 8:29Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 8:30Josh Clark?

  Yeah. So, and that is one reason why a lot of people stay in the workforce, is financial necessity. When I was looking for the retirement curse abroad, outside of the United States, one reference I found was in Australia, but essentially what they were talking about was the retirement curse of outliving your savings. And a lot of people are scared to death by that idea. And there's a lot of people in the United States who are like, I have to keep working. I don't have a choice because I'm going to keep living longer beyond my savings. So that's a big one, especially because we don't have universal, single payer, or free healthcare here in the United States. That gets more and more expensive the older you get, and you happen to need it more and more the older you get, too.

• 9:13Josh Clark?

  So the insurance plan that mostly you get that through your employer, you used to before Obamacare, if you have a good insurance plan that you don't pay that much for through your employer, that in and of itself is, is reason enough to keep working for a lot of Americans.

• 9:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, end-of-life care is really, really, really expensive. Another reason-

• 9:33Josh Clark?

  It's a real screw job.

• 9:35Speaker 01

  It is. Yeah, you work your whole life and then get hit with a tremendous bill that you can't afford at the end of it.

• 9:42Josh Clark?

  Exactly.

• 9:42Speaker 01

  It's sad. So, personal choice is another reason. People are, you know, generally healthier and living longer these days compared to previous decades. And so a lot of people just want to keep working because it gives them a sense of purpose, something to do.

• 9:57Josh Clark?

  They want to keep joining those calls.

• 9:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, and remote work is another reason why people are working a little later because, hey, you're at home, so, you know, no skin off your back.

• 10:07Josh Clark?

  So there's actually a Harvard study that was like, okay, what's behind all of this? Because yes, everybody, you know, has some sort of anecdotal data, but there's got to be some factor that really rises above everything else. And Harvard's been studying this cohort of 724 men for over 75 years now. There's only 60 of them left and they're all in their 90s. But every two years, they track their health, they ask them about their satisfaction in life. And they found that when you separate the wheat from the chaff, the cream from the milk, the peanut butter from the chocolate,

• 10:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:43Josh Clark?

  what stands is social connections. And we've talked about this before and it makes me really nervous every time we do. But the more social connections you have, the more connected you are with other people, the more you interact with other people,

• 10:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:56Josh Clark?

  the happier you are, the longer life you have, the less disease burden you have into old age.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:02Josh Clark?

  And just the better off you are in general. It seems to be the underlying thing for health into old age.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. The fourth, this is an amazing study, the Harvard Study of Adult Development. And the fourth director is a guy named Robert Waldinger, who is a psychiatrist and he has an awesome TED Talk that I recommend people watch. And it's a TED Talk, so it's not more than, what, what is it, 18 minutes or something?

• 11:27Josh Clark?

  I don't remember when the...

• 11:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's a set length I can't remember. But it's called, "What Makes a Good Life: Lessons From the Longest Study on Happiness." And he reiterates what you said, is that, you know, those relationships are kind of the key to remain socially connected and loneliness is toxic. So, you know, you want to avoid that stuff, both physically and mentally. And on the physical side, one kind of obvious things that you should do is, I mean, if you're a runner and you do cardio and you can keep doing that, that's great. But strength training and stretching and stuff like that, resistance exercises is a really big deal to start doing as, or continue to do, if you don't do it already as you get older.

• 12:09Josh Clark?

  It's enormous. It helps keep your bones healthy, helps keep your muscles strong. It prevents things like sarcopenia, where you develop a stoop. Balance is a big one because falls are a big problem as you get older. So, strength training, resistance training, that helps your balance as well. And you also just want to move. One thing I'm heartened by is there's so many people who I see out taking walks in the middle of the day, every day. I think that's great. And that's a big part of staying, I guess, healthier, just living life is getting outside and moving around, even if it is just going for a walk, you know, or chasing pigeons at the pond.

• 12:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, that's, you know, one of the mental aspects is daily routine. And if that's chasing pigeons is your thing, like, you need to, you need to have a plan in place and have a routine and not just be like, well, what's the day gonna throw my way? You know, you also need to eat, you know, eat well, obviously nutrient-dense foods and get really good sleep. That's key. But like, getting out in the world is a big one. And, you know, I think everyone has seen this, maybe sadly somewhere in their family, like, the worst thing you can do is turning that television on during daylight hours.

• 13:27Josh Clark?

  It gets worse, though, Chuck. If you turn it on and you turn it on to cable news, you're toast.

• 13:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:33Josh Clark?

  Not only are you going to die, but your family wants you dead now.

• 13:39Josh Clark?

  It's a problem.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  It is. When you start sitting on the couch and watching TV during the day, it's, you know, it can be the beginning of the end. So you need to be out in the world, you need to try and learn some new things. Like, it's, you can get so inspired by seeing, you know, either on social media or whatever, or news stories, when you see some of our senior friends out there, like, taking a dance class for the first time, or a new hobby or learning an instrument, or a new language or something like that, like, that is just food for your brain.

• 14:11Josh Clark?

  Yeah, like, if your local community is, like, putting a one penny tax or something to build a new senior center, that's money well spent.

• 14:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, agreed.

• 14:23Josh Clark?

  And then, of course, you can volunteer, you can mentor, there's a lot of stuff you can do. I think the point is to just keep doing stuff. Like you said, like, resist the trap of just sitting on the couch all day, you know?

• 14:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, because the retirement curse is self-inflicted, generally. So you hopefully have a choice as to how you spend your remaining years. And we say, because, I mean, I'm 55, dude, that's coming, that's coming for me sooner than you. And I want to, I want to be out in the world. I want to be one of those old guys out there on the golf course in his 90s or taking a, I want to learn to dance, finally, in my 80s.

• 15:02Josh Clark?

  That's awesome. What kind of dance? Modern jazz?

• 15:07Speaker 01

  No, breakdancing.

• 15:08Josh Clark?

  Oh, that'd be great, the breakdancing grandpa. There's your second chapter right there.

• 15:13Speaker 01

  There you have it.

• 15:14Josh Clark?

  Well, yes, I think the short stuff proved that we are becoming old men. And look for short stuff in the future on sitting.

• 15:23Josh Clark?

  And I think Chuck's short stuff is out.

• 15:28Speaker 06

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