SYSK Gets Weird Playlist: Will We Find Evidence of Aliens by Their Engineering Projects?

In 1960 physicist Freeman Dyson suggested that in the hunt for alien life, we should search for evidence of massive engineering projects that encapsulate stars with solar arrays to harness their energy. Could we humans ever make one ourselves? See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 2:01Josh Clark?

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• 2:37Josh Clark?

  Okay, I'm back with a neat and rollicking look at some sci-fi theories, in the truest sense of the word sci-fi, about what lines of progress any intelligent civilization should follow. And this concept leads, pretty much inevitably, to things like building space probes, and harnessing the energy of stars, all of which should leave some telltale trace of a civilization already far more advanced than ours. What happens after that is another story.

• 3:08Speaker 05

  Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from HowStuffWorks.com.

• 3:18Josh Clark?

  Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. Jerry's over there, with their foot on the button. And that means this is Stuff You Should Know, the podcast. The foot on the button. Just waiting to cut us off.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's what, no one knows, but Jerry has a kill switch at her foot for all of our profane tirades.

• 3:42Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it would kill us if she ever pressed it.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 3:46Josh Clark?

  That's why they call it that.

• 3:47Speaker 01

  But she's not very good at it, I've noticed.

• 3:49Josh Clark?

  I've noticed, too. Some stuff slips by.

• 3:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I told her she's like Keith Richards of podcast producers, because he can't use guitar pedals.

• 3:58Josh Clark?

  So he's known for that? Is that a thing?

• 4:00Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, I don't know how known he is, maybe among guitar players, but he just plugs right into the amp. It's pretty great.

• 4:09Josh Clark?

  Oh, I see.

• 4:10Speaker 01

  And he was on Mark Maron's podcast. It was a great interview. And Maron, you know, is pure Keith Richards, and he was just basically like, you know, I have a hard time standing upright. Like, I can't mess with trying to press foot pedals.

• 4:24Josh Clark?

  That's Keith, man.

• 4:25Speaker 01

  Yep, very pure.

• 4:27Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 4:29Speaker 01

  And by pure, I mean...

• 4:31Josh Clark?

  Pure heroin.

• 4:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:33Josh Clark?

  Pure China.

• 4:34Speaker 01

  No, he's clean now, but...

• 4:36Josh Clark?

  Is he really? That's astounding.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, no, I mean, he doesn't do, like, hard drugs anymore.

• 4:43Josh Clark?

  I gotcha.

• 4:44Speaker 01

  I think he drinks and smokes weed.

• 4:45Josh Clark?

  I gotcha.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  But it's Keith Richards. Come on.

• 4:48Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 4:49Speaker 01

  He still smokes, too.

• 4:50Josh Clark?

  That's like pristine.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  Actually, Maron smoked his first cigarette in a decade in that show with him.

• 4:55Josh Clark?

  Oh, that was smart. That was a good decision.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  He was like, I have to. How can I not?

• 5:00Josh Clark?

  Yeah, he easily could not have done that. I'm disappointed. Did he really?

• 5:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. Keith Richards offered him a smoke, and he was like, sure.

• 5:08Josh Clark?

  Yeah. I mean, I see that, but at the same time, I also see not smoking.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  Listen to you.

• 5:15Josh Clark?

  I know, I'm being judgy.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  Wagging your finger.

• 5:18Josh Clark?

  So Chuck.

• 5:19Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 5:21Josh Clark?

  Have you ever used energy?

• 5:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 5:26Josh Clark?

  Well, you know, when you're using energy, most likely you're using something like a fossil fuel, right?

• 5:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, right.

• 5:33Josh Clark?

  Like gasoline or natural gas or something like that. Stuff that comes from decomposing dinosaurs.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 5:40Josh Clark?

  Okay. The problem with using decomposing dinosaurs, as most people know, is that it's essentially a nonrenewable resource. There's no more dinosaurs to decompose any longer. And even if there were, it would take tens of millions of years for them to decompose into fossil fuels for us, right?

• 5:57Speaker 01

  Right. Even if we could, even if we had dino-DNA, and we could make new dinosaurs just to kill them and watch them decompose.

• 6:06Josh Clark?

  Which is something we would do if we had the capability. I guarantee it.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  Oh, sure.

• 6:11Josh Clark?

  Right? But we don't have that capability. And as far as I know, like, no one's working on that track right now. I don't think.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  Just Steven Spielberg.

• 6:21Josh Clark?

  Right. Maybe someone at Rutgers.

• 6:25Josh Clark?

  So we have to come up with energy sources that we won't eventually run out of. And obviously, there's like wind and solar. And as far as solar power goes, from what I understand, we're actually doing pretty well right now. Like, right now, we use something like 0.01% of the sunlight that reaches Earth to power our world. So there's a lot of room for growth potential.

• 6:50Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 6:51Josh Clark?

  The thing is, is I also saw that if we keep growing, and our energy consumption keeps growing at something like 1% a year, within 1,000 years, we'll be using more than the entire amount of sunlight that hits the Earth can provide. So we really need to come up with something else.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 7:11Josh Clark?

  The problem is, is even if we harnessed all of the energy here on Earth, we would very quickly outgrow whatever energy it provided. So some people have said, well, why don't we just go straight to the source? If the sun's such a great source of energy, but it's shooting that energy out in directions other than the Earth, the stuff that is starting toward the Earth doesn't make it very frequently, let's just go to the sun and basically strangle the life out of it to get energy from it, right?

• 7:43Speaker 01

  Great idea.

• 7:44Josh Clark?

  And one of the first proposals of it, I don't want to say a serious proposal, because although it's been taken seriously over the years and almost been interpreted like scripture, it was a thought experiment to begin with. It's something called a Dyson Sphere.

• 8:02Speaker 01

  Yes. Well, I guess we should introduce the man. Not that we have him here.

• 8:09Josh Clark?

  That'd be awesome.

• 8:10Speaker 01

  He's still around.

• 8:11Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I know.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  He's an old dude. But we're talking about Freeman Dyson, not the maker of the vacuum cleaner, or the bladeless fan.

• 8:23Josh Clark?

  Or the bladeless hairdryer.

• 8:26Speaker 01

  Is that really a thing?

• 8:27Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  They have a Dyson hairdryer?

• 8:29Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 8:30Speaker 01

  You know what? I was so disappointed when I found out what the bladeless fan was.

• 8:36Josh Clark?

  Why?

• 8:37Speaker 01

  Have you seen those?

• 8:38Josh Clark?

  Yeah, you can stick your hand through it. It's amazing.

• 8:40Speaker 01

  Well, I know. And I was like, is it magic? Like, how in the world is it doing this? But it's got a stupid blade. It's just housed in a casing.

• 8:49Josh Clark?

  Yeah, so there's a terrible name for it.

• 8:50Speaker 01

  And then it just channels it up and, you know, squirts it out the front.

• 8:55Josh Clark?

  The Dyson invention that always got me was the Airblade hand dryer. I think we've talked about this before, where you stick your hand down in there.

• 9:04Speaker 01

  I love those.

• 9:05Josh Clark?

  Yeah, but they're so filled with germs, that actually, I was in a bathroom the other day, and they have an Airblade now that just blows downward onto your hands. And it's actually, I'm like, okay, now I'm satisfied with this invention.

• 9:19Speaker 01

  Well, you know you're not supposed to rub your hand on the Airblade itself.

• 9:22Josh Clark?

  No, but it's so close. It's like you're playing Operation. Like, I'm trying to remove a funny bone or something like that. It's almost impossible not to hit the sides of the thing, you know?

• 9:30Speaker 01

  Your big meat hooks are just rubbing all over everything. That's gross.

• 9:34Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it is gross, believe me. Because I walk out just crying with my hands held in the air every time I go to the bathroom.

• 9:40Speaker 01

  Well, you and I have a very big thing about airport bathrooms. And I think I had the worst one of my life at a Boston Logan on our last tour.

• 9:50Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah? What happened?

• 9:52Speaker 01

  It was just not up to snuff. Like, the, first of all, the door, and this might have been just this one bathroom, but the doors to the stalls, none of them secured.

• 10:04Josh Clark?

  They've been ripped clean off.

• 10:05Speaker 01

  Well, they were there, but you couldn't, you know, the locks didn't work. It was just, I basically had to push my hand against it, which grossed me out.

• 10:11Josh Clark?

  Yeah, no, that's not okay.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  And then the gap, when the door was shut, was like, two or three...

• 10:17Speaker 06

  ...inches big, like you could fully just look in and say, "How you doing? How's your poop?"

• 10:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's the Mr. Peepers model stall.

• 10:24Speaker 06

  Well, it's just not acceptable, you know, in this day and age to not have complete privacy in there.

• 10:31Josh Clark?

  I mean, I agree with you. Again, I'm gonna reiterate, I think there should be one stall for an entire bathroom so that no one could possibly sit down next to, but barring that...

• 10:40Speaker 06

  One stall to rule them all?

• 10:41Josh Clark?

  Exactly. But barring that, though, like, the place, like, what we have in our office is acceptable. It's a good second place. There's like a complete wall in between you, there's a complete wall in front of you, and a door that's securely shut.

• 10:57Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's a water closet.

• 10:59Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess, I guess it is. There's a lot of water flowing there.

• 11:03Speaker 06

  Oh, man, I knew we were gonna get distracted by poop.

• 11:07Josh Clark?

  Yeah, this isn't even the porta potty episode.

• 11:09Speaker 06

  I know. Alright, so, sorry, back to Freeman Dyson, uh, not the vacuum maker. He was, uh, born in England, he worked most of his career, he's retired now, but worked most of his career as a physics professor at the Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton University, not Rutgers.

• 11:31Speaker 06

  Uh, he was a civilian scientist with the RAF in World War II.

• 11:35Josh Clark?

  Cool.

• 11:36Speaker 06

  Uh, went to Cambridge, then Cornell for grad school.

• 11:39Josh Clark?

  This guy's got some bona fides.

• 11:40Speaker 06

  Uh, and then he's been in news recently by being a big, uh, I mean, brilliant, brilliant man, but he's been in the news recently by being one of the more prominent scientists on, uh, as a climate change skeptic.

• 11:56Josh Clark?

  Oh, is that right?

• 11:57Speaker 06

  Yeah, and not like a complete skeptic, like, he does believe that it's, I believe where's, what his stance is, that he does believe that it's man-made, but he doesn't think we have enough detail about all the variables for these computer-generated models to be accurate.

• 12:14Josh Clark?

  Uh, I see.

• 12:15Speaker 06

  So he's, he's basically saying like, this is not the end of the world, and in fact, he thinks that increasing levels of CO2 can be a good thing for humanity ultimately.

• 12:24Josh Clark?

  How so?

• 12:25Speaker 06

  I don't know, I didn't get that far.

• 12:28Josh Clark?

  He's like, it gives, it gives you a pretty good buzz.

• 12:30Speaker 06

  Uh, maybe. I don't know, it's pretty interesting, though. He's like, oh, I think, starting about, you know, six to 10 years ago, really started making the news with, uh, his somewhat controversial, 'cause he's a brilliant man and all these other scientists are like, "Wow, he's such a smart guy, but he's so wrong on this."

• 12:47Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 12:47Speaker 06

  But then other people are like, "No, he's totally right."

• 12:50Josh Clark?

  That's pretty interesting.

• 12:51Speaker 06

  Anyway, um, so that's who he is, and he in 1937, well, not 1937, he in the 1960s was reading a book from 1937 called Starmaker, from, uh, science fiction author Olaf Stapleton, and, uh, he saw this thing called a light trap from this book, uh, and this book also had predicted things like virtual reality, and it's kind of a, pretty much a landmark sci-fi, science book, and, um, he said, "Hey, this light trap sounds like a good idea, I'm gonna rip it off."

• 13:26Josh Clark?

  Yeah, he did, and he actually, it was, I think, a paper that was published in Science, in the journal Science, in 1960, and it's really short, did you read it?

• 13:35Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 13:35Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it's like, I think it took up two pages in Science, um, out of like a thousand or something like that in that volume, but, um, he basically said, "This would be a great thing, as you say, to rip off, for a thought experiment I'm working on," right? Because just very recently, something called Project Osmo had been created, and that was, they started to search the sky for extraterrestrial intelligence, it was the first study, um, and they were looking for radio signals, still are, but Dyson was saying, "Well, hold on a second, if you're gonna start looking for extraterrestrial beings, like signs of intelligent civilizations, you should maybe start looking for these," and, and they came to be called Dyson spheres,

• 14:17Josh Clark?

  because he was the first one to popularize it, even though he got the idea from Olaf.

• 14:22Speaker 06

  Yeah, he actually said, um, he thought a Stapleton sphere was a better name, but I guess, not good enough to actually use it.

• 14:29Josh Clark?

  Right, right. Yeah, yeah, he said it once.

• 14:32Speaker 06

  Right, very quietly.

• 14:33Josh Clark?

  Yeah, but, so this Dyson sphere, he, it was originally created as a, again, a thought experiment, he wasn't, he didn't talk about how to construct it necessarily, or, uh, anything like that, although there were some follow-up correspondence, um, after the letter first came out, but almost immediately, people started thinking about how you would create one of these things, this, this Dyson sphere, and the whole point, we should say, basically at its, at its basis, a Dyson sphere is, um, an engineering project, a megastructure, that

• 15:12Josh Clark?

  initially was thought to be basically a hollow sphere that you built around a star. For example, we would build it around our sun.

• 15:20Speaker 06

  Right.

• 15:20Josh Clark?

  And the whole point of this thing is, on the inside of this sphere are solar arrays, so that all of that sunlight, like we were talking about earlier, that gets wasted, as far as we're concerned,

• 15:32Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 15:33Josh Clark?

  is captured and converted into usable energy for us. And, and Freeman Dyson's point was, if you build one of these things, you're going to capture light, light won't get out, but infrared radiation, heat, thermal heat, will escape. And so if you're looking around the skies for aliens, look for something that has a tremendous amount of, like, the infrared radiation of a star, but isn't putting any light out, and maybe you just found an alien civilization. That's how it began, but people started trying to figure out how to make one of these things almost as soon as he, he published that letter.

• 16:09Speaker 06

  So, the one thing I don't get, was he saying that look for this because other civilizations out there are using a Dyson sphere?

• 16:17Josh Clark?

  He, he said that it would be likely that they, that this would be an invention they came up with.

• 16:22Speaker 06

  Okay, gotcha.

• 16:24Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 16:24Speaker 06

  Alright, well, um, let's go, should we go to, uh, this Nikolai Kardashev?

• 16:31Josh Clark?

  I think we should. I think we can't put it off any longer.

• 16:33Speaker 06

  It's pretty interesting. In the 1960s, there was an astrophysicist named Nikolai Kardashev, and, um, he was a Bond villain, and, uh, actually, he wasn't, but he should have been. Um, he had this idea that there were three classifications of civilization. Type one, which is basically, we have learned how to harness all the energy on the home planet, like, everything you can possibly harness here on Earth, and you would think, "Well, that's probably us, we're not quite there yet," uh, a really smart dude named Michio Kaku, um, not a Bond villain either,

• 17:13Speaker 06

  he said, uh, "In the next hundred years or so, maybe 200 years, we might actually be a type one civilization."

• 17:20Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and like you said, that's where every bit of geothermal energy, every drop of sunlight, every, um,

• 17:30Josh Clark?

  every bit of hydroelectric power, all of that stuff, every potential bit of energy is being harnessed by us.

• 17:36Speaker 06

  That's right.

• 17:36Josh Clark?

  Yeah, we're nowhere near that right now. I think Kaku's assessment's a little rosy.

• 17:42Speaker 06

  Oh, wow.

• 17:43Josh Clark?

  And I can say that because he was on our TV show.

• 17:46Speaker 06

  Sort of. Well, he was.

• 17:49Josh Clark?

  He, yes, he appeared on. He didn't interact with us in any real way.

• 17:52Speaker 06

  Exactly.

• 17:53Josh Clark?

  He has no idea who we are.

• 17:55Speaker 06

  No, none. Uh, so type two is the next, of course, and they, uh, that kind of civilization would understand how to harness all of the energy, not only on your own home planet, but the energy of a star in its own solar system.

• 18:10Josh Clark?

  Right, that's where, that's where the Dyson sphere comes in.

• 18:13Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 18:14Josh Clark?

  You know?

• 18:14Speaker 06

  That's what we aspire to do one day.

• 18:17Josh Clark?

  Right, maybe a million or so years from now. And then type three is just kind of like following this logical progression.

• 18:26Speaker 06

  Right, and that's harnessing all the energy of all the galaxies, or of entire galaxies, not necessarily all of them.

• 18:34Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I think the, the second, the second stage, the type two civilization, would be, um, the, either the hardest to get to, or take the longest to get to.

• 18:47Speaker 06

  Right.

• 18:48Josh Clark?

  And that's because when you build that first Dyson sphere, your technology and your energy efficiency and your productivity is going to just shoot forward exponentially from that point on.

• 19:01Speaker 06

  Oh, yes.

• 19:01Josh Clark?

  So, so, once you build that first one, you can start building more and more and more, much more quickly, so you jump from a type two to a type three civilization pretty, pretty fast, compared to how long it took you to go from a type one to a type two civilization.

• 19:18Speaker 06

  Yeah, I think it's like any, any product even, that, that first one is tough, and then you can scale it, and, uh, but, well, we'll, we'll get to the, the robots here soon.

• 19:27Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 19:27Speaker 06

  In fact, let's take a break.

• 19:29Josh Clark?

  I'm getting a little psyched, Chuck.

• 19:30Speaker 06

  And we'll talk a little bit more about the sun, boo, right after this.

• 19:52Josh Clark?

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• 20:01Speaker 06

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• 20:14Josh Clark?

  Or discover Toyota's off-road lineup, including the iconic 4Runner and Land Cruiser, designed to go beyond the everyday. And with Toyota's proven reputation for quality and reliability, plus hybrid power on many models, you can get more for every mile and drive for less along the way.

• 20:30Speaker 06

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• 20:52Speaker 07

  First thought is like, wow, how are we going to do all this?

• 20:55Josh Clark?

  Hey, this is Josh and Chuck from Stuff You Should Know.

• 20:58Speaker 06

  That's Alan Goya, planning engineer at AT&T, and he's talking about Intuit Dome, home of the Los Angeles Clippers, where every seat, screen, phone, and transaction is connected with AT&T fiber and 5G, redefining the fans' experience, and Alan's master plan made it all possible.

• 21:14Speaker 07

  It was going to rival anything that was already built, and that takes quite a bit of people and different teams to all be on the same page.

• 21:22Josh Clark?

  That includes field services manager Drexel Jones. His team made sure it all came together and held up on game day.

• 21:28Speaker 06

  Through Alan's whole crew design, we connected the event visitors to the world. And after years of hard work and collaboration, it was opening night. To actually see the whole stadium light up and data's flowing is a beautiful thing.

• 21:41Speaker 07

  What the fans' experience is incredible. It gave me a lot of pride.

• 21:45Josh Clark?

  AT&T, connecting fans to what they love.

• 21:48Speaker 05

  Connecting changes everything. AT&T.

• 21:54Speaker 06

  You know, you're never done decorating your home. You know what I mean?

• 21:57Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 21:58Speaker 06

  Yeah, because it's a process. There's always something you could do or buy or update. The only question is, what's next? For us, our animals just wear out our rugs so quickly, it's usually a new rug.

• 22:08Josh Clark?

  Well, Chuck, whether you need a rug or whatever is next for you, you can go to Wayfair. It's the smart place to get it.

• 22:15Speaker 06

  That's right. Whatever your style, whatever your budget, whatever you're looking for, Wayfair makes it easy to find it, and you can feel good about your purchases too, because Wayfair verified products go through a thorough 10-point quality inspection.

• 22:27Josh Clark?

  And with over 20 million 5-star reviews, Wayfair must be doing something right. You can find pieces made for real life and get even more value with Wayfair Rewards. Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com.

• 23:00Speaker 06

  All right, so I went "buh" when I said the word "sun."

• 23:05Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I thought that was odd.

• 23:06Speaker 06

  No, it's not. You know.

• 23:07Josh Clark?

  I honestly had no idea where you're going with this.

• 23:10Speaker 06

  Well, you do. You're being coy. Most people out there, most longtime listeners, know that our sun podcast was one of our biggest struggles and would have been our biggest achievements had we done it right.

• 23:26Josh Clark?

  It's the biggest pity applause we get.

• 23:30Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 23:31Josh Clark?

  For the sun. No, no, it was, it was fine. That's what we get.

• 23:34Speaker 06

  You tried.

• 23:35Josh Clark?

  Yeah, good for you for trying.

• 23:37Speaker 06

  But let's talk a little bit about the sun. This stuff I can deal with, at least.

• 23:42Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 23:43Speaker 06

  As far as its immense power and energy. And I love that our own article has some of these comparisons.

• 23:52Speaker 06

  The sun can generate 5 times 1,023 horsepower.

• 23:57Josh Clark?

  I think that that is a typo. I think that it's supposed to be 5 times 10 to the 23rd power.

• 24:03Speaker 06

  Oh, you think?

• 24:04Josh Clark?

  That's the only explanation I have for that.

• 24:06Speaker 06

  Yeah, that doesn't make sense.

• 24:07Josh Clark?

  That's a really small number, actually.

• 24:09Speaker 06

  Yeah, I agree.

• 24:10Josh Clark?

  It'd be like about 5,100, 5,200 horsepower.

• 24:17Speaker 06

  Yeah, that's 5 times 10 to the 23.

• 24:19Josh Clark?

  It's gotta be.

• 24:20Speaker 06

  Someone just got lazy there.

• 24:22Josh Clark?

  Seriously?

• 24:22Speaker 06

  They're like, I don't know how to do the little 23 thing.

• 24:24Josh Clark?

  Right. I don't, I don't know how to use SuperScript. What am I, like a great editor?

• 24:29Speaker 06

  SuperScript, that's what it is, right?

• 24:31Josh Clark?

  SuperScript and SubScript, I think.

• 24:34Speaker 06

  So let's put it this way, and this one is the one that cracks me up. The sun has enough energy to melt an ice bridge, 2 miles wide and a mile thick, from Earth to the sun in a single second.

• 24:47Josh Clark?

  In a single second.

• 24:48Speaker 06

  That's pretty good.

• 24:50Josh Clark?

  This is the only article I think I've ever seen an ellipse in. Like, like the author was like, wait for it.

• 24:55Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 24:56Josh Clark?

  In a single second.

• 24:58Speaker 06

  Yeah, I don't even think they did the ellipse right. Isn't the ellipse supposed to be right after the letter, or is there a space?

• 25:02Josh Clark?

  I think there's supposed to be a space on either side.

• 25:04Speaker 06

  Oh, really?

• 25:05Josh Clark?

  Technically, yeah.

• 25:06Speaker 06

  I've been doing these wrong, then.

• 25:09Josh Clark?

  Well, don't feel bad. This thing says 5 times 1,023 horsepower, so it's all good.

• 25:15Speaker 06

  All right, what else? 1 trillion 1-megaton bombs going off every second.

• 25:21Josh Clark?

  If you're warlike.

• 25:22Speaker 06

  And then finally, 1 single second of sun action, whatever that is, is enough to power our Earth for a half a million years. That drives it home.

• 25:36Josh Clark?

  It does, but it also gives you an idea of just how primitive we are energy consumption-wise.

• 25:44Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 25:44Josh Clark?

  Like, it's, it's, it's crazy, because you know, we're, we're really worried about running out of our non-renewable resources, but we use such a minute amount of energy that, that the sun could power the energy use we use currently for half a million years in one second.

• 26:03Speaker 06

  Yeah, that's nuts.

• 26:04Josh Clark?

  Right, so that also kind of takes your mind, though, too. And this is, I think, one of the things, one of the buttons that Freeman Dyson pushed. It, it makes you realize, like, holy cow, we could do some really amazing stuff if we could capture a significant amount of that power that the sun puts out.

• 26:25Speaker 06

  Even an insignificant amount.

• 26:26Josh Clark?

  Yeah, really. Yeah. You'd keep Iggy Pop going for like another 100 years.

• 26:34Speaker 06

  So like you said, the, the idea behind the Dyson sphere is this structure. He originally proposed a hollow sphere and kind of referred to it as a shell.

• 26:46Speaker 06

  But I think now, or I think he went on to, to make it a solid sphere.

• 26:51Josh Clark?

  He, so he actually said, he was really, what's the opposite of clear?

• 27:00Speaker 06

  Convoluted?

• 27:00Josh Clark?

  Opaque? Yeah, I guess a little. Convoluted. He, he didn't really go to the trouble of spelling it out, because again, remember, this is a thought experiment.

• 27:07Speaker 06

  Right.

• 27:08Josh Clark?

  That had to do with finding aliens, not an engineering schematic. So he used some very, it was vague. That was the word I was looking for. He was using some vague words.

• 27:16Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 27:17Josh Clark?

  We're like, wait, what, what, what are you talking about? What is this sphere? Is it, is it cohesive? Is it like a, a solid body? Is it hollow in the middle? What's going on? And he came back and said in a letter, a follow-up, he said, "No, no, no, like, there's, there's no way you could build something that would go around our sun that would be a solid body that was hollow in the middle." Like, it couldn't be a cohesive hole.

• 27:41Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 27:41Josh Clark?

  Because the rotational forces, the shear forces, and the gravitational forces acting on it would just obliterate it immediately.

• 27:49Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 27:50Josh Clark?

  Like, it'd just be mechanically impossible to make it like that. So he said, "So maybe you would make something like a bubble or a swarm or something like that."

• 27:59Speaker 06

  Yeah, and he said, "In the letter, I've enclosed some blotter acid. Put it on your tongue."

• 28:05Josh Clark?

  You're gonna love this. It's dynamite.

• 28:07Speaker 06

  "And call me in an hour." Might make a little more sense. Yeah, our own article points out that one of the first downsides, obviously, if you surround the sun completely, is that sunlight has, I mean, I know we'd be harnessing that energy, but sunlight provides a lot more than just energy.

• 28:28Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah. Like, it makes us happy?

• 28:30Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 28:30Josh Clark?

  People write entire songs about how sunshine makes you happy, like John Denver did. You know?

• 28:36Speaker 06

  Uh-huh. And that was just on his shoulders.

• 28:38Josh Clark?

  It would be a global bummer if somebody enclosed the sun. That's like supervillain kind of stuff, right?

• 28:44Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 28:44Josh Clark?

  Okay, so that's a problem. Another problem, though, is that if you're going to build something like this, and Dyson even suggested the size of it, he was saying it would need to have a radius. So a radius, not even a diameter, half of the diameter, a radius that was 2 times the distance of the Earth to the sun.

• 29:04Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 29:04Josh Clark?

  So this thing would be massive, which means that it would also enclose the Earth, too, right?

• 29:10Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 29:10Josh Clark?

  Like, he wasn't proposing you just go up and create this tight ball around the sun. Like, it would be much further spread out, and it would actually encompass the Earth's orbit within it.

• 29:21Speaker 06

  Oh, so it would be like, this, this is mine. It belongs to the earth and no one else can get any sun.

• 29:29Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it would block off the stuff outside of two times the distance of the earth's orbit. So there's a couple of planets out there that would get the old screw job. But the ones inside, twice the distance of earth's orbit, would really benefit from it.

• 29:47Speaker 06

  That's very selfish.

• 29:48Josh Clark?

  Yeah, but the other problem is too Chuck is I imagine it would, things would get pretty hot.

• 29:53Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 29:54Josh Clark?

  Pretty quickly, inside this thing. So the earth would be destroyed.

• 29:59Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 30:00Josh Clark?

  And to get around this, and a lot of people I don't think got it immediately. He said, "Well, you just live inside the Dyson sphere, like in the outer shell of it."

• 30:12Speaker 06

  Oh, sure. Make it habitable?

• 30:14Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 30:15Speaker 06

  Right. Well, that makes sense.

• 30:16Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 30:17Speaker 06

  But what you were saying about just the sheer size of it, there literally aren't enough raw materials on our entire planet to make something this big. In fact, in our entire solar system, there probably aren't enough raw materials to make a structure like this.

• 30:32Josh Clark?

  No. And not still try to inhabit it. There's just no way.

• 30:37Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 30:39Josh Clark?

  Some people say though, and Freeman himself, I keep wanting to call him Freeman like that's his last name. But I just end up sounding like I know him on a first name basis. He was saying, "You might be able to build something like this by disassembling Jupiter." Well, that was his suggestion.

• 30:58Speaker 06

  Oh, really?

• 30:59Josh Clark?

  Yeah. He said, "Disassemble Jupiter and put it back together and you could build a Dyson sphere that had the radius twice the distance from the earth to the sun and make a solar array of it."

• 31:16Speaker 06

  Must have been some good acid.

• 31:18Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 31:18Speaker 06

  Good for him.

• 31:19Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 31:20Speaker 06

  All right. So I think we're both in agreement, and most people are in agreement, that this sphere idea is not at all tangible.

• 31:30Josh Clark?

  Not as like a cohesive whole, no.

• 31:32Speaker 06

  Like it just remains in the realm of thought experiment. So why bother?

• 31:36Josh Clark?

  Oh, well, that's the interesting thing to me. It basically is kind of like, he meant it as a thought experiment. It's been brought out of the realm of thought experiments. And yeah, we're in no way, shape or form capable of doing this. But a lot of people have tried to figure out how to do it. And I think it's one of those things that's like, yeah, it's theoretically possible. But we're just, it's not at our, we're nowhere near that level of capability right now.

• 32:08Speaker 06

  Well, I think his other ideas that he came up with though are decent.

• 32:12Josh Clark?

  Oh, like the swarm and stuff?

• 32:14Speaker 06

  Well, yeah. I mean, let's get to that. He himself even said, "The sphere is probably not very realistic at all. So why don't we do this? Why don't we think of different machines maybe that are independent of one another that actually circle the sun, collect this energy and then beam it back to earth."

• 32:31Josh Clark?

  Right. So to him, his initial idea was that sphere. And then what it came to be was that the sphere was like this umbrella term for these different, slightly more realistic ideas, like the swarm or the bubble.

• 32:46Speaker 06

  Right.

• 32:47Josh Clark?

  So like, what's the swarm?

• 32:49Speaker 06

  Uh, well, the swarm, maybe they are in different orbits. And they, like the swarm, he likens it to bees. Like instead of gathering pollen, they're just around the sun, moving around, gathering energy and power.

• 33:04Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 33:04Speaker 06

  And some of those might be habitable too.

• 33:07Josh Clark?

  Right. And they're like, they're solar arrays that are satellites that are moving around on independent orbits of one another.

• 33:13Speaker 06

  That's right.

• 33:14Josh Clark?

  And if you, and the way that they would make a Dyson sphere is, yeah, there's a lot of space in between them. But if you step back a few orders of magnitude, further back into the other parts of the galaxy or the universe, it would appear as basically a whole sphere around the sun.

• 33:31Speaker 06

  Yeah, sure.

• 33:31Josh Clark?

  So it still falls under that category, right?

• 33:33Speaker 06

  Yeah, he had to keep that sphere thing because of branding. He didn't want to lose that.

• 33:38Josh Clark?

  He's like the genie's out of the bottle.

• 33:40Speaker 06

  They're like, "You really don't need it to be a sphere." He's like, "Oh, it's gotta be a sphere."

• 33:45Speaker 06

  So those satellites are actually, they would be called, uh, statites.

• 33:50Josh Clark?

  Well, no, if they were the bubble, they would be statites. This guy's got it wrong.

• 33:55Speaker 06

  Oh, really?

• 33:55Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:57Speaker 06

  I thought the solar sails could be the statites now?

• 34:02Josh Clark?

  So what I saw, the difference between the swarm and the bubble was that the swarm has the satellites in orbit around the star and they're in their own orbits, not interacting with each other.

• 34:14Speaker 06

  Oh, I got you.

• 34:15Josh Clark?

  A bubble is where the satellites are in a fixed position relative to the star.

• 34:21Speaker 06

  So those are the statites.

• 34:22Josh Clark?

  Right. So they're just kind of hovering outside of the star, not in orbit.

• 34:28Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 34:29Josh Clark?

  Just kind of hovering instead.

• 34:32Speaker 06

  And then those are the two, and then the third are the solar sails, correct?

• 34:35Josh Clark?

  Well, you can make a solar sail, or you can make any of them with solar sails. And I don't know where that guy got that.

• 34:41Speaker 06

  Yeah. Did we do a whole episode on solar sails? Yeah. So, I mean, it makes sense. If you get a bunch of these solar sails orbiting the sun, you might think that you could harness the power and send it back to earth some way.

• 34:55Josh Clark?

  Right, exactly. And like, that's, like, you could use that with any of these. Whether it's a bubble, whether it's a swarm, whatever you're doing. And if you, like you said a second ago, made them habitable, then all of a sudden you have a recipe for survival for the human race if earth ever becomes untenable, right?

• 35:17Speaker 06

  Hooray.

• 35:18Josh Clark?

  Or we can't terraform Mars. We can go live on these things. And when we think about living out in space, my brain immediately goes to like the cramped, tiny tin can conditions of the ISS. These things don't need to be like that. I mean, if we're creating Dyson spheres, we're going to be advanced enough that we could build some really luxe satellites and statites as solar arrays to go hover or orbit around the sun, right?

• 35:43Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 35:44Josh Clark?

  So they could be huge. So big, in fact, that Dyson was saying, this doesn't have to be an engineering project that's carried out by a central global government that's directing the whole thing. That as our energy consumption and energy needs continue, nations could take it upon themselves individually to create these solar sails that are habitable, put them into orbit independently, and just through the desire to preserve one's own life, would make sure that their orbit wasn't going to intersect with somebody else's orbit who was already up there. And just organically, a Dyson sphere in the form of a swarm or a bubble could form on its own

• 36:26Josh Clark?

  just by self-interested nations developing this technology, basically independent of one another.

• 36:33Speaker 06

  Wow.

• 36:34Josh Clark?

  I don't know. Guy was, he had some far, far thinking thoughts.

• 36:40Speaker 06

  Far thinking?

• 36:42Josh Clark?

  I don't have those.

• 36:43Speaker 06

  Uh, should we take another break?

• 36:46Josh Clark?

  I think so.

• 36:46Speaker 06

  All right. We'll do that and we'll wrap it up a little bit with how to get this energy back to the home planet.

• 37:10Josh Clark?

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• 37:32Josh Clark?

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• 37:48Speaker 01

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• 38:10Speaker 01

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• 38:44Speaker 01

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• 38:56Josh Clark?

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• 39:10Speaker 01

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• 39:20Josh Clark?

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• 39:55Speaker 06

  All right, so earlier you talked about dismantling Jupiter. With a socket set, a couple of screwdrivers.

• 40:05Speaker 06

  Mercury is another planet that people have talked about as potentially harvesting. The good thing about Mercury, a couple of things. One is that it is near the Sun.

• 40:17Josh Clark?

  Yeah, so who needs it already?

• 40:18Speaker 06

  Yeah, so it would make it proximity wise, it makes a little bit of sense. And I think this Oxford University physicist Stuart Armstrong is who proposed this. And one of the other great things about Mercury is it has a lot of great raw materials, namely iron, that we could use.

• 40:37Josh Clark?

  Right. And he actually suggested that we could disassemble Mercury fully in basically what amounted to a 40-year stretch.

• 40:46Speaker 06

  I thought you were gonna say, eh, 30 days, I could do it.

• 40:49Josh Clark?

  Right, exactly. If a contractor tells you you can take Mercury apart in 30 days, don't trust him.

• 40:55Speaker 06

  Agreed.

• 40:56Josh Clark?

  No, this was in basically four 10-year stretches. Combined equals 40 years, obviously, but I think his point, Armstrong's point, was that you don't have to disassemble Mercury as a whole and wait until it's fully disassembled to put it together into Dyson, to start creating a Dyson sphere. You can disassemble and then start reassembling as you go.

• 41:20Speaker 06

  Right.

• 41:20Josh Clark?

  And once you start getting one bit of it online, it's gonna help power and create better efficiency to harvest and reassemble Mercury, the rest of Mercury, you know, like we were talking about earlier.

• 41:33Speaker 06

  Yeah. And not only that, but you could use that energy, all of a sudden you could, there would be supercomputing like you've never seen, space travel would get faster. Like, all these technologies that we can't even think about yet would be growing at exponential rates.

• 41:49Josh Clark?

  Right. And I mean, that's the point. Like, when you're like, well, what would we do with, you know, all of this energy every second coming off of the Sun? Who knows? We cannot conceive of the stuff we could do with that amount of energy yet.

• 42:05Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 42:06Josh Clark?

  But I guarantee it's not gonna be, you know, using fuel, like, charging our smartphones. It should be for some pretty neat stuff, I guess.

• 42:16Speaker 06

  So the other cool idea is that, holy cow, how many people would have to take part in this kind of a project? Just literally the labor force you would need. And I think Armstrong is the one who said, "Well, you could use robots, actually." And with the same idea that once you get some of these robots going, if they could self-replicate and build themselves, then you can just kinda sit back and watch the paint dry.

• 42:45Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 42:46Speaker 06

  On Earth. And all these robots are up there, just building themselves and working and working and doing everything for you.

• 42:54Josh Clark?

  Exactly. And that's why, that was his, I don't know if it was his point, someone's point along the way, is that when you start that, when you build that first Dyson sphere, all of a sudden it's just going to keep going and going and going faster. It's going to spread at an exponential rate. So you would go from a type 2 civilization to a type 3 civilization pretty quickly. And as a matter of fact, you would also, if this project was carried up by a centralized government, it would spread so quickly and so far in such a relatively short amount of time, something like going from that first Dyson sphere to colonizing an entire galaxy in something like a million years, that even if it was a centralized government involved at the beginning,

• 43:38Josh Clark?

  they would very quickly lose control of the colonies, because they'd be so spread out and there'd be so many of them, that they would just basically become self-sufficient and spread over the galaxy. So the reason this is noteworthy is that if you found one Dyson sphere, you would probably find millions or billions or trillions of them in just one section of the universe, right?

• 44:04Speaker 06

  Right.

• 44:04Josh Clark?

  You probably are not going to find just one Dyson sphere. You're going to find a Dyson galaxy.

• 44:10Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 44:11Josh Clark?

  A type 3 civilization. And that's what they're looking for by sifting through some of these old sky surveys. And they found a couple of candidates, actually, in the last year or so, I think.

• 44:24Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah?

• 44:24Josh Clark?

  Yeah, there's a couple of surveys that have found stars, and they have, like, typical star names. One is KIC 8462852, which is a sexy name.

• 44:39Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 44:40Josh Clark?

  And then the other is EPIC, which I'm pretty sure they call Epic, 204278916, right?

• 44:48Speaker 06

  Wow.

• 44:49Josh Clark?

  And Epic was discovered by the Kepler spacecraft in 2014. And the reason these things are noteworthy is because there is some sort of weird transit pattern where the light dims, I guess randomly, or not necessarily on some sort of set schedule, around these stars. And you would say, "Well, that's probably just a planet or something coming in between it." Well, yes, they thought about that already.

• 45:20Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 45:21Josh Clark?

  And normally, a star will dim by about 1% when a planet-sized object comes in between you, the observer, and that planet. These things are dipping, in the case of KIC star, 22%. And in the case of the Epic star, 65%, right?

• 45:44Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 45:44Josh Clark?

  They have no idea what could be massive enough to dim those two stars that much. They haven't encountered it before. There's a couple of theories. One of them said a swarm of comets. Somebody else said, "Well, you could very easily go from a swarm of comets to a swarm of solar arrays, so maybe these are evidence of Dyson spheres."

• 46:06Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 46:07Josh Clark?

  I mean, it's possible.

• 46:09Speaker 06

  Well, you know, it's kinda fun to talk about robots building themselves and them doing all this work up there. One of the big problems is we're not nearly, I mean, we have robot technology now, but nothing close to that at the present. And as this article points out, that you would need, like, it would have to be so advanced, these robots would have to be operating without fail up there, because they would be by themselves. Or be able to fix themselves and fix problems. Like, the intelligence would need to be so far advanced, like, we can't even imagine what that would be like.

• 46:49Josh Clark?

  No, but, I mean, even if Michio Kaku's off by 100 or 200 or 500 years, that's not that far off.

• 46:58Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 46:58Josh Clark?

  Like, if we can harness all the energy on Earth, we should very quickly improve as far as our technology is concerned. So, who knows, maybe those robots aren't that far off, you know?

• 47:10Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 47:12Josh Clark?

  One other thing that I saw from this, though, was when Freeman Dyson was talking about disassembling Jupiter, Chuck. He said that it should take, I don't know, roughly 800 years' worth of the Sun's energy output to disassemble and reassemble Jupiter.

• 47:28Speaker 06

  Oh, well, that's not bad.

• 47:29Josh Clark?

  But do you remember how much comes out of the Sun in a second? We're like, whoa, you know, that's so much. We would need 800 years' worth of that to disassemble and reassemble Jupiter. So, like, not only do we not have the capability of building a Dyson sphere, we don't even have the capability of disassembling Jupiter. We just don't have any way to harness that energy, which creates this kind of chicken-or-egg dilemma. Like, we almost need a Dyson sphere to create a Dyson sphere at this point.

• 48:02Speaker 06

  Yeah. Somewhere Freeman Dyson is laughing.

• 48:06Josh Clark?

  On acid.

• 48:06Speaker 06

  Somewhere in New Jersey.

• 48:09Speaker 06

  One of the other big issues is, okay, let's say that you could even do something like this and harness this energy. To get it to Earth is another big problem, if we wanna make it actually usable. Some people said we could laser it over, but the problems with laser beams is after about a mile, you're gonna lose a lot of efficiency with it, so good luck with that. Microwaves have been floated out there, but microwaves, even though they're more effective farther out than lasers, you're still limited to about 100 miles, which will do us no good.

• 48:46Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 48:46Speaker 06

  So, what's the answer?

• 48:49Josh Clark?

  I don't know.

• 48:50Speaker 06

  Yeah, I don't have one either.

• 48:51Josh Clark?

  I mean, I guess one of the easy ones is, well, just inhabit the solar arrays. Go inhabit the Dyson sphere. Stop being so precious about living on Earth.

• 48:59Speaker 06

  Yeah, that's true.

• 49:02Josh Clark?

  Which makes sense, but I like living on Earth.

• 49:05Speaker 06

  Yeah, but would Earth 800 years from now be worth living on?

• 49:11Josh Clark?

  Uh, it depends Chuck. Will it be skipping, skipping to school and skinning knees and spelling bees and all that still? Cause if so, then yes.

• 49:22Speaker 06

  Yeah. I don't know what you're talking about.

• 49:25Josh Clark?

  It's another Simpsons reference.

• 49:27Speaker 06

  Oh, okay.

• 49:28Josh Clark?

  He's, it's a, the one where Principal Skinner came back, the real Principal Skinner.

• 49:32Speaker 06

  Oh yeah. Great one.

• 49:33Josh Clark?

  And he's like, he goes, if, uh, if you think, uh, skinning knees and spelling bees are corny, well then mister, corn me up.

• 49:41Speaker 06

  That's right. That's when they introduced, uh, we'd like to introduce their Principal Skinner, Principal Skymore Skinner.

• 49:50Josh Clark?

  Arm and Tansarian.

• 49:51Speaker 06

  Yep. That's a great one.

• 49:53Josh Clark?

  Um, there's one other thing. You got anything else?

• 49:55Speaker 06

  I got nothing else.

• 49:56Josh Clark?

  I got one more thing. So there's that whole idea that Dyson came up with to search the skies for this, this imprint where there's a lot of infrared radiation, but no visible light.

• 50:07Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 50:08Josh Clark?

  There's a problem with that because this guy came along, his name was, uh, Robert Bradbury. He's a futurist, I think maybe a science fiction writer.

• 50:15Speaker 06

  Ray?

• 50:16Josh Clark?

  No, Robert. His little, little brother.

• 50:19Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 50:20Josh Clark?

  Um, Robert Bradbury said, well, you know what? If you really wanted to, um, make these Dyson spheres efficient, you'd make them in like the same manner that those Russian nesting dolls are made.

• 50:31Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 50:31Josh Clark?

  Like a Matroshka, right?

• 50:32Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 50:33Josh Clark?

  So you'd have the, the internal sphere and then outer spheres going around it, catching all that lost heat energy and turning it into usable power, which is awesome because you'd have basically a hundred percent efficiency as far as the Dyson sphere was concerned. But if you're looking at the stars, you would see nothing because not only would there not be visible light, there also wouldn't be any infrared radiation. And Freeman Dyson just hung his head, went into his room, shut the door and laid down on his bed for a while.

• 51:05Speaker 06

  The end.

• 51:06Josh Clark?

  Yep. Uh, well, if you want to know more about Dyson spheres, you can start with this article on howstuffworks.com by typing Dyson Sphere into the search bar, how stuff works, as I said. And, uh, since I said how stuff works twice, that means it's time for listener mail.

• 51:25Speaker 06

  Uh, I'm going to call this, uh, we helped a lady out. Um, hey guys. Hope this email finds you well. Been listening for only a short time, but it becomes so addicted, I've already binged about half of your episodes offered on Spotify.

• 51:41Josh Clark?

  I think she meant pinged.

• 51:43Speaker 06

  I know. We, uh, we're on Spotify by the way, and you can bing us all you want from that platform. Um, like many others, I absolutely adore your show. I came across the podcast after a very upsetting event in my life. Save you the sob story, just say I was going through intense grief. There was something about your kind voices, strong intellect and raunchy humor that gave me a thirst for learning and a new purpose in life.

• 52:09Josh Clark?

  Wait a minute, wait a minute. Do we have raunchy humor?

• 52:13Speaker 06

  Sure.

• 52:14Josh Clark?

  I didn't realize that.

• 52:15Speaker 06

  Oh, I think she picks up on the.

• 52:17Josh Clark?

  That's like Cheech and Chong.

• 52:18Speaker 06

  The sideways comments.

• 52:20Josh Clark?

  We're like the new Cheech and Chong.

• 52:23Speaker 06

  Uh, I thank you a billion times over for just being who you are. The podcast was a large factor in saving my life. Uh, don't ever underestimate or doubt what you do and know that there are people like me out there soaking up every word. Sincerely, Cheery B.

• 52:38Josh Clark?

  Thanks a lot, Cheery. That's nice. I like hearing that we help people.

• 52:43Speaker 06

  Yeah. Makes me feel good in my belly.

• 52:45Josh Clark?

  Yeah. We appreciate the compliment. It's very nice of you to take the time to write in to let us know. Um, and, uh, you can let us know that you think we're the tops by tweeting to us. I'm at Josh Umm Clark and there's also an official SYSK podcast one. You can hang out with Chuck at, uh, facebook.com/charleswchubryant or facebook.com/stuffyoushouldknow. You can send us an email to [email protected]. And as always, join us at our home on the web, stuffyoushouldknow.com.

• 53:23Speaker 00

  For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howstuffworks.com.

• 53:36Josh Clark?

  Buy smart, drive for less and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it starts with a great deal on an off-road ready Tacoma or half ton Tundra, two of Toyota's longest lasting trucks, combining power for work, tech for adventures and style in between. And they're built on a reputation for quality and reliability, which is why Toyota trucks are known for holding their value, which could mean big savings when it's time for your next Toyota. So get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for more. Toyota, let's go places.

• 54:07Speaker 01

  With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One Bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep. Even on weekends. It's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com/bankguy. Capital One, N A, Member FDIC.

• 54:34Josh Clark?

  Let's play a quick game. When I say Carnival cruise, what comes to mind? Maybe a buffet, maybe a lively Lido deck, or maybe you've already decided cruising isn't for you. But we can assure you a Carnival cruise isn't what you think. From casual bites to five-star dining, laugh out loud comedy, a relaxing spa and unforgettable shore excursions, Carnival has everything you want in a vacation. So take another look, then book your next getaway at carnival.com. Ships registry, the Bahamas and Panama.

• 55:02Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.