SYSK Gets Weird Playlist: The Mystery of the Mary Celeste

When the Mary Celeste was discovered floating and abandoned in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean one day in 1872, the legend of the ghost ship was born. Why did the Mary Celeste’s crew disappear? Was it pirates? Mutiny? UFOs? Well, probably not that last one. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 0:04Speaker 01

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• 0:31Josh Clark?

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• 1:12Josh Clark?

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• 1:39Speaker 01

  Hey, everybody. Chuck here, intro-ing episode five of the Stuff You Should Know Gets Weird playlist. This is weird stuff, everyone, and this is episode of the Mary Celeste, because that was definitely pretty weird. It's definitely a mystery, and I believe the title is, in full, "The Mystery of the Mary Celeste." Enjoy it right now.

• 2:03Speaker 03

  Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from HowStuffWorks.com.

• 2:13Josh Clark?

  Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry Roland, the triumvirate, the hat-trick, the trio, the triage.

• 2:25Speaker 01

  Triptych.

• 2:25Josh Clark?

  In French. There you go. Is that Latin?

• 2:28Speaker 01

  Hmm, I don't know. I just know it as a gambling term.

• 2:32Josh Clark?

  Well, whatever it is, it's Stuff You Should Know.

• 2:35Speaker 01

  Hey, Happy New Year.

• 2:37Josh Clark?

  Happy New Year to you too, buddy. Happy New Year, Jerry.

• 2:40Speaker 01

  Chee-mouth Happy New Year. So, in real time, this is our first recording of 2018. I know this always feels a little bit weird when we say things like Happy New Year in, what, February? No, this will be late January?

• 2:54Josh Clark?

  No, it's like next week.

• 2:55Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:56Josh Clark?

  We ate up the kitty.

• 2:57Speaker 01

  Did we get that slim?

• 2:59Josh Clark?

  Yeah, oh, yeah.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  During our long break, which was wonderful.

• 3:02Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it was so nice, Chuck. I actually, get this, relaxed.

• 3:08Speaker 01

  No.

• 3:09Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  No, but...

• 3:10Josh Clark?

  It was, I did, I unwound. I, my cortisol levels decreased, although the spare tire didn't actually go down with it. It was replaced by frosting.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  My webcam begs to differ, because I was peeking in on you the whole time.

• 3:27Josh Clark?

  Well, okay, I did a lot of work, but I did relax in between.

• 3:30Speaker 01

  I saw you pacing.

• 3:33Josh Clark?

  Wondering what to do with myself.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  Clipping orchids, clipping orchids.

• 3:36Josh Clark?

  Man, my orchids are doing so well right now. It's super cold out, of course, right?

• 3:41Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:41Josh Clark?

  But I've got to keep them outside, because they have a bit of an ant infestation. Haven't figured out how to do anything about that one yet. But I built like a little impromptu cold frame around them.

• 3:52Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 3:52Josh Clark?

  And I have a mini crock pot, warming water inside the cold frame. So, to the orchids, they're in Ecuador right now during the rainy season.

• 4:01Speaker 01

  It's like downsizing. Have you seen that yet?

• 4:04Josh Clark?

  No.

• 4:05Speaker 01

  Oh, well, that means nothing to you, then.

• 4:07Josh Clark?

  No, it doesn't. I have no idea what you're talking about. You have to tell me now. What is it?

• 4:11Speaker 01

  Well, it's that new movie, the new Alexander Payne movie with Matt Damon.

• 4:16Josh Clark?

  Does that have to do with orchids?

• 4:18Speaker 01

  No.

• 4:18Josh Clark?

  Crock pots?

• 4:19Speaker 01

  It has to do with...

• 4:19Josh Clark?

  Ecuador?

• 4:20Speaker 01

  Shrinking people down and living in miniature.

• 4:23Josh Clark?

  Oh, that sounds kind of cool.

• 4:25Speaker 01

  So, there'd be like a miniature crock pot. That's what got me on that tangent.

• 4:28Josh Clark?

  Did you ever see that documentary? I'm sorry, everybody who wants to stay on track, but just one more thing. Did you ever see that documentary, Chuck, about the, the woman who created miniature crime scenes for, like, police to study and learn from?

• 4:45Speaker 01

  No.

• 4:46Josh Clark?

  You should check it out. It was, it was this lady who did exactly what I just said, and they made a documentary about her and how much these things have actually helped teach techniques and how radical a change it was in presumption of guilt and that kind of thing.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  You know how much I love miniature things, though.

• 5:03Josh Clark?

  Well, you would love this. I'm surprised you haven't seen it, then.

• 5:06Speaker 01

  No, because what was, I think it was in Chicago, the museum in Chicago, and the downstairs, I don't want to say basement, but whatever the lowest floor is, they have the works of the woman who created all the miniature house interiors. And it's just, like, I could have spent all day in there.

• 5:27Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I'll bet. So, you would...

• 5:28Speaker 01

  It's amazing.

• 5:29Josh Clark?

  You would, I know, some, there is something about things that are really small, things that are really small and things that were once above ground that are now under water.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  Have you, you ever get the little, little tiny Tabasco bottle?

• 5:42Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 5:43Speaker 01

  I just want to hug it.

• 5:45Josh Clark?

  It's about as prized a Tabasco bottle as you can get.

• 5:47Speaker 01

  Man, I love small stuff like that.

• 5:49Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Well, I know what you're getting next Christmas.

• 5:52Speaker 01

  Something tiny.

• 5:53Josh Clark?

  Yeah, well, some tiny Tabascos. I'm going to be like, hug these.

• 5:58Speaker 01

  Give me a small anything.

• 5:59Josh Clark?

  Okay, good to know. Good to know. All right, so let's talk. Let's wrap.

• 6:05Speaker 01

  All right.

• 6:06Josh Clark?

  You know I love me a mystery, Chuck. I think you do, too.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is a good one. The old ghost ship.

• 6:13Josh Clark?

  When you, yeah, when you cross mystery with history, it's, it just blows up. The spot, the whole spot blows up. And that's what this one is. Like, I remember learning about the Mary Celeste back when I was a young tyke, probably from that, like, Time, Life, Unexplained phenomena series.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 6:30Josh Clark?

  I'm pretty sure that's where I...

• 6:31Speaker 01

  For those Time Life books?

• 6:33Josh Clark?

  Yeah, they were great. They were just chock full of just outright lies and mistaken facts and things like that. But they were perfect for like a little 10-year-old imagination, you know?

• 6:45Speaker 01

  You were tiny.

• 6:47Josh Clark?

  What do you mean?

• 6:48Speaker 01

  You were tiny 10-year-old. Your imagination was big, though.

• 6:51Josh Clark?

  I, I wasn't tiny at 10. I was really starting to work on some chubs by then.

• 6:56Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. See, I was, I was, I'm going in reverse order. I was a skinny 10-year-old.

• 7:00Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah, I was never a skinny kid.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:04Josh Clark?

  Well, anyway.

• 7:07Josh Clark?

  It's just imagine little, kind of chubby 10-year-old Josh, sitting there reading a Time Life book, learning about the Mary Celeste, this, like you said, ghost ship, and just my hair standing up on end going, this is, what a great universe to live in.

• 7:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, where there can be ghost ships.

• 7:24Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, and we'll get to, at the end, we will reveal the, the big, well, no one knows for sure what happened, but...

• 7:33Josh Clark?

  No.

• 7:33Speaker 01

  Um, we'll, we'll get to what the best guess is at the very end. Or should we just say that right now?

• 7:39Josh Clark?

  No, no.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  That'd be weird.

• 7:40Josh Clark?

  I think, no, I think that, that, I subscribe to the best guesses, we'll see.

• 7:45Speaker 01

  All right, so way back Machine Time, right?

• 7:48Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:48Speaker 01

  But this is our, our seafaring version.

• 7:52Josh Clark?

  Well, no, we're going to Old New York.

• 7:54Speaker 01

  Oh, okay, so we don't need to get wet yet?

• 7:56Josh Clark?

  No, not yet. Where, where Daniel Day-Lewis reigns supreme.

• 8:01Speaker 01

  Have you seen that yet? Oh, no, you're talking about, uh...

• 8:03Josh Clark?

  The Gangs of New York?

• 8:04Speaker 01

  Gangs of New York. I thought you were talking about the new one, Phantom Thread.

• 8:07Josh Clark?

  I don't, where do you hear about these movies?

• 8:09Speaker 01

  That's my job, dude.

• 8:11Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah, that's right.

• 8:13Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, that, I don't think that movie's even out yet, actually. At least not in Atlanta. You know, we're like a second, second-tier city.

• 8:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's true, but I suspect not for long, because I think Atlanta's actually surpassed LA now as far as, like, film production goes.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 8:29Josh Clark?

  Have you heard that?

• 8:31Speaker 01

  Uh, I could certainly believe it.

• 8:33Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  So, does that mean we're second tier and LA's third tier?

• 8:38Josh Clark?

  Maybe so.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  All right.

• 8:39Josh Clark?

  2.5.

• 8:41Speaker 01

  All right, so are you talking early November 1872?

• 8:45Josh Clark?

  Yes, November 4th, to be exact, a Monday.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  Are you talking about the Astor House in New York City, New York?

• 8:51Josh Clark?

  Yeah, man, and this was at a time where, like, have you ever read Devil in the White City?

• 8:55Speaker 01

  No, man, I still have not read that.

• 8:57Josh Clark?

  You should read it. It's pretty good. But one of the things that the book does is, it reproduces menus from these dinners that they had when they were planning the expo. And these things were like, they had chapters, basically. They'd, they'd smoke cigarettes in the middle. There'd be a cigarette round, because you had to do something to keep all of this food down and, and, and help the process of digestion. It was crazy how much they would eat. So, I can imagine the, the food was pretty good at the Astor House in 1872.

• 9:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, but everything back then was like, uh, crown roast and rack of lamb and...

• 9:31Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 9:32Speaker 01

  It was just like huge trays of beef.

• 9:35Josh Clark?

  Right, live pig that you beat to death at your table and then start eating.

• 9:39Speaker 01

  God.

• 9:40Josh Clark?

  They, they did it, believe me. The Time Life books told me so.

• 9:43Speaker 01

  That's right. Uh, all right, so at this dinner table, we have a few people. We have one, Captain David Morehouse, and then his buddy, he was a ship's captain. His buddy, another ship's captain, because, you know, they tend to hang out with one another.

• 9:56Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 9:57Speaker 01

  Um, Cap, Captain Benjamin Spooner Briggs, uh, and they're sitting down with Briggs's wife, Sarah. And I don't know, did, did Morehouse have his wife there, or was he batching it?

• 10:08Josh Clark?

  That's not the impression I have. I think that Sarah was there because they were, she was shipping out the next day, too.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 10:15Josh Clark?

  I think he was batching it, in other words.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  But they were, they were good buddies, both captains, both set to set sail, uh, out of New York for the Mediterranean, and I guess they were just talk, uh, talking shop.

• 10:29Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I mean, I think they both grew up in Nova Scotia, so they may have known each other there. Uh, couple of salty old sea dogs, but good people from, from, uh, from all accounts.

• 10:39Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 10:40Josh Clark?

  And they, uh, the, I mean, the fact that these guys were having dinner in New York on November 4th, 1872, totally unremarkable in, in most senses, right?

• 10:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:50Josh Clark?

  But, but a month later, it would be incredibly ironic.

• 10:54Speaker 01

  Oh, yes.

• 10:55Josh Clark?

  And tell them why.

• 10:56Speaker 01

  Well, because Morehouse's ship, the, uh, is it De Gracia?

• 11:02Josh Clark?

  I think so.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  Okay, we'll call it that, D E I G R A T I A, De Gracia, uh, was sailing along and, and we'll get to the specifics of how this happened in a second, but they came upon his buddy's ship, the Mary Celeste, and by all accounts was probably like, hey, that's, uh, that's Briggs. We need to go over and check out how, how spoons Briggs is doing.

• 11:26Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 11:27Speaker 01

  And they weren't doing well because nobody aboard the ship was aboard the ship.

• 11:32Josh Clark?

  No, I mean, just seeing the ship would have caught him by surprise because he shipped out a full week later, bound for the same city, leaving from the same port, so they should have never caught up to them.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  No.

• 11:43Josh Clark?

  And then the fact that, yeah, when they boarded it and there was no one aboard, a, a mystery that endures to this day was born that day.

• 11:50Speaker 01

  That is correct.

• 11:52Josh Clark?

  Right, so the Mary Celeste, very famous ghost ship, but what a lot of people don't know, Chuck, is that even before the Mary Celeste became this famous ghost ship, it was already considered pretty unlucky, actually.

• 12:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, so 1860 was when, uh, not even named the Mary Celeste yet, it was called the Amazon at the time, was born in Nova Scotia, and, uh, I believe the very first voyage, what you would call a maiden voyage, was to haul some, some timber to London, across the Atlantic.

• 12:25Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's what she was used for.

• 12:26Speaker 01

  Pretty, pretty routine.

• 12:27Josh Clark?

  Yeah, didn't go very well.

• 12:29Speaker 01

  No, it didn't.

• 12:30Josh Clark?

  No, her first captain was a guy named, uh, Robert McClellan.

• 12:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:35Josh Clark?

  And he apparently had had a cold, and when they shipped out, he took such a turn for the worse that they had to turn around and go back home, and he died two days after they, they got back from pneumonia.

• 12:47Speaker 01

  Can you imagine back in those days, if you get a cold, you're like, well, I've got about a one in 10 chance of dying.

• 12:52Josh Clark?

  Right, maybe even worse than that, right? Yeah, so this, this, but think about this, like, first of all, sailors are fairly, um, superstitious bunch, right? So a maiden voyage, anything that's like hinky or weird or bad about a maiden voyage, automatically cursed ship. So the captain dying on a maiden voyage that can't even be completed, that's a cursed ship right out of the gate.

• 13:17Speaker 01

  I would say so.

• 13:18Josh Clark?

  But this is also a business venture, so it's not like the owners gave up on the thing, they said, well, just get in another captain, you superstitious dogs, and get back out there, and that's what they did.

• 13:29Speaker 01

  Yes, and captain number two was, uh, John Nutting Parker.

• 13:33Josh Clark?

  Great name.

• 13:34Speaker 01

  It's a good name, and, uh, he also sailed to London, and when they left, they actually encountered some trouble right off the bat, they hit, uh, some fishing equipment off the coast of Maine, um, pressed on, as you do, uh, and did reach London, um, dumped off their cargo, set sail for home, and as they set sail for home, they actually sunk another boat in the English Channel.

• 13:59Josh Clark?

  Yes, cursed ship, cursed ship.

• 14:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that other boat was probably like, picks a lot.

• 14:04Josh Clark?

  Right, exactly.

• 14:05Speaker 01

  Amazon.

• 14:06Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and the, the captain of the other ship even stubbed his toe on the way down afterward, it was terrible, it was a bad scene. So again, this is a business venture, the owner said, whatever, it was somebody else's ship, our ship's fine, we're gonna keep doing this London to, um, or New York to London timber route.

• 14:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:26Josh Clark?

  They also did some West Indies trade for a while, and everything was fairly normal for a while, um, and then a freak storm caught this ship, and I'm not, like, I'm not a seafarer by any means whatsoever.

• 14:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, same here.

• 14:40Josh Clark?

  So I don't know if this actually is like a, an inordinate amount of things to happen to one ship, but it does seem like a lot in just, you know, less than a decade for a single ship, so she, the first captain dies, second captain sinks another ship, they run into some fishing tackle, and then in October of 1867, she's run aground in a storm, and is so bad off that the owners say, we're abandoning her.

• 15:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, that must be pretty bad, so they literally left the ship there to, uh, decompose, or I guess you would call it rot, if you're wooden.

• 15:16Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 15:16Speaker 01

  Or I guess wood decomposes, right, or is that just rot?

• 15:19Josh Clark?

  I think rot is more slang.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  Okay, it sounds grosser, too.

• 15:23Josh Clark?

  Like, cool.

• 15:24Speaker 01

  Right. Uh, and at that point, the ship was bought by, uh, a dude named Alexander McBean, also from Nova Scotia.

• 15:33Josh Clark?

  Also a great name.

• 15:34Speaker 01

  And then he, I mean, the ship is changing hands, basically, he sold that shipwreck, and I guess that was just a thing at the time, you would buy a shipwreck, maybe sell it, then turn a quick profit, probably not a ton of money, but he sold that shipwreck to a dude who then sold it to another dude, named Richard Haynes, so he paid about 1,750 bucks for it, which is about $32,000, according to our favorite inflation calculator, which is?

• 16:06Josh Clark?

  West Egg.

• 16:07Speaker 01

  That's correct. It's just got a good name. And, um...

• 16:11Josh Clark?

  Plus, plus it's easy to use, and it's been around forever.

• 16:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, and they're, they're, I mean, I think it goes up to 2016 now, which is pretty good.

• 16:18Josh Clark?

  That's pretty, pretty good.

• 16:20Speaker 01

  They're always just like a year behind, which I can respect.

• 16:22Josh Clark?

  That's fine, they, they need the data.

• 16:25Speaker 01

  So, uh, Haynes went through bankruptcy, and that boat was seized, and then that was sold to a group led by a man named James Winchester.

• 16:33Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 16:34Speaker 01

  And, uh, Haynes had fixed it up a little bit, but Winchester really put a lot of money into it, lengthened it to, uh, over 100 feet, added a deck, basically, the show would have been called Flip This Brigantine.

• 16:47Josh Clark?

  It was starring Vanilla Ice.

• 16:51Josh Clark?

  You like that one, huh?

• 16:53Speaker 01

  I've seen that show, have you seen it?

• 16:56Josh Clark?

  For like five minutes, I, I'll tell you, I'll tell you this, this proves that I relaxed this, uh, vacation, you ready?

• 17:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:03Josh Clark?

  I got hooked on an Animal Planet show called Insane Pools.

• 17:08Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 17:09Josh Clark?

  Have you heard of it?

• 17:10Speaker 01

  Hmm, I do watch one of those pool shows, but I don't think it's that one, it's another one.

• 17:14Josh Clark?

  I, I was like, I, I have to go to bed now, or else I'm gonna be up till like 5:00 AM watching this marathon about a, a pool renovation show that has nothing to do with animals.

• 17:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 17:25Josh Clark?

  It was, I, it was bizarre how just, it, it just got its hooks in me, so...

• 17:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, that, that happens from time to time with me, too, and you know what scares me about those pools, though, is most of them are just amazing, and you have like grottos and waterfalls and all that cool stuff, but some people opt for those, uh, death tubes, where you can like swim through a thing to another thing.

• 17:47Josh Clark?

  Oh, I haven't seen one with that yet.

• 17:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're like, hey, we wanna, we wanna be able to swim through a tube to another part of the pool.

• 17:53Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:53Speaker 01

  And potentially, you know, get stuck and die, is how I see it.

• 17:57Josh Clark?

  That would be really awful.

• 17:59Speaker 01

  I don't think that ever happened, though.

• 18:00Josh Clark?

  They need to just leave a stick of butter at the mouth of that thing, so you can grease yourself up real good as you're going through. You know?

• 18:09Josh Clark?

  Your pool would just have a sheen of butter floating at, at the top, it kind of rots in the sunlight.

• 18:15Speaker 01

  I worked at a pool like that once.

• 18:17Josh Clark?

  That's grody.

• 18:17Speaker 01

  It was not butter, but there was a sheen, I don't know what it was.

• 18:20Josh Clark?

  I'm sure it was sunblock.

• 18:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess so.

• 18:24Josh Clark?

  Has to be, what else is it gonna be?

• 18:26Speaker 01

  I don't know, body funk?

• 18:28Josh Clark?

  It could be, there's probably a little body funk fixed in there.

• 18:32Speaker 01

  But does that cause a rainbow sheen?

• 18:34Josh Clark?

  Oh, a rainbow sheen, no, I don't know what the hell it was, there should not be a rainbow sheen on your pool, unless you had like pool, like swimmers covered in gasoline going into your pool, that would explain it.

• 18:46Speaker 01

  Well, that might have been it.

• 18:47Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 18:48Speaker 01

  Uh, all right, so Winchester, and by the way, Winchester is just the major investor, uh, there was a very notable other investor, and what was his name?

• 18:58Josh Clark?

  Oh, oh, oh, you're asking me?

• 18:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:00Josh Clark?

  It's been a couple of weeks, hasn't it? Sorry about that.

• 19:04Speaker 01

  You were just staring up into space, that was weird.

• 19:06Josh Clark?

  His, his name was Benjamin Spooner Briggs.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  Right, who you will notice is the dude from Dinner.

• 19:12Josh Clark?

  Yes, so he's, he's not only the captain of the Mary Celeste, he was a two-fifth stake in, investor in it, and, um, what's notable is that at the time he invested in the Mary Celeste, he and his brother were actually considering getting out of the, um, the sailing game.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:31Josh Clark?

  And, and buying a hardware store together in New Bedford, Mass, and instead, uh, Briggs said, no, you know what, this is too good of a deal, this is, this is a great ship, I'm gonna pour my savings into a two-fifth stake, and not only that, I'll be the captain of it, and not only that, for its maiden voyage, I'm gonna bring my wife and daughter along with me.

• 19:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's one of those sliding doors things, like, should have gone into hardware.

• 19:56Josh Clark?

  Yeah, yeah, and rather than sailing into history.

• 19:59Speaker 01

  Um, so, uh, by the way, that is when the ship was officially renamed the Mary Celeste from the Amazon, is when, uh, it was re-registered, I guess, and I, I looked it up, I was kind of curious, cause there is a Marie Celeste, which is a fairly famous World War II, or I'm sorry, uh, Civil War ship?

• 20:17Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 20:18Speaker 01

  And I was just curious where the name came from, and nobody really knows, uh, but they said there is a theory that it was an error by the painter, because it's an English and a French name, and it's just a weird mix-up.

• 20:29Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 20:29Speaker 01

  To not have been Marie and be Mary Celeste, so they think it might have been either the Mary Sellers or another Marie Celeste.

• 20:37Josh Clark?

  Huh.

• 20:38Speaker 01

  So either way, who knows?

• 20:40Josh Clark?

  Well, even today, though, like, still there's like some confusion when you, if you Google Mary Celeste, Google says, do you mean Marie Celeste? And I say, no, Google, I mean Mary Celeste, and they're like, oh, okay.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  Do you mean Vanilla Ice?

• 20:53Josh Clark?

  Right, Vanilla Ice Flip This Pool.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  Uh, so Briggs, like you said, brought along his wife, who was at dinner, and then their two-year-old daughter, Sophia Matilda, they left little Arthur behind because he was seven, and he was in school, and they said, we don't want to take little Arthur out of school.

• 21:13Josh Clark?

  No, he was already pretty dim-witted, so...

• 21:16Speaker 01

  Oh, was he?

• 21:17Josh Clark?

  Uh, no, I don't know.

• 21:18Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 21:20Josh Clark?

  But they didn't want to interrupt his schooling, so they said, Arthur, you stay here with some relatives. And they took Sofia Matilda with them. And this was a huge decision. I don't know if this was unusual or not, but whatever. Briggs said, I'm bringing my wife and daughter with me on this, this ship on the maiden voyage.

• 21:38Speaker 01

  And everyone went, oh, brother.

• 21:40Josh Clark?

  I know. They're like, oh, good, good. This will be fun.

• 21:44Josh Clark?

  Well, we'll not only have to work really hard for weeks at sea, we'll also have to entertain your two-year-old whenever she wants our attention.

• 21:50Speaker 01

  And we can't curse.

• 21:51Josh Clark?

  Right, exactly. So that decision, though, probably had some effects on, on the voyage overall. It definitely had an effect on who Briggs chose for the crew.

• 22:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:07Josh Clark?

  He, you know, he had his wife, his daughter. He was known as a Christian, an upstanding person. Apparently didn't drink much, if at all. He was known as fair, just, level-headed, and just an overall honorable person. Not just at sea, but in life, you know, as well, back on land. So he was pretty well-regarded. I'm assuming his wife was equally well-regarded. And he, because his family was on the boat with them, he went to some, some trouble to make sure that the seven crew members that he picked were of upright character themselves, that there weren't any shade balls, because you don't want any shady sailors out in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean with your wife and child.

• 22:50Speaker 01

  No.

• 22:51Josh Clark?

  You don't want that. So that is to say that the crew of the Mary Celeste on her maiden voyage with Benjamin Briggs, his wife and daughter, were all pretty, pretty top-notch dudes by all accounts.

• 23:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. So they set sail, what they were carrying was about seventeen hundred, actually seventeen hundred and one to be exact, barrels of what's called denatured alcohol. This is not rum. This is not something you're gonna drink. It is undrinkable. It is like fuel, basically, industrial fuel. And they finally set sail on November 7th, 1872, bound for Italy, bound for Genoa. And I think we should probably take a break right here.

• 23:34Josh Clark?

  Let's do it.

• 23:35Speaker 01

  All right, we'll be right back about the haunted ghost ship.

• 23:56Speaker 04

  Welcome to the haunted library.

• 24:00Speaker 04

  Have you come in search of a tale? This podcast invites you to browse the shelves and find stories that will linger long after you've left this place. From Gothic masterpieces to poppy penny dreadfuls, join me, Colin Morgan, with new episodes twice a week. Find the haunted library wherever you get your podcasts.

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• 25:57Josh Clark?

  All right, Chuck. So...

• 26:00Speaker 01

  We're out at sea.

• 26:02Josh Clark?

  Okay, so there's, there was an investigation, as you can imagine, we'll talk about that more later. But this investigation determined that probably, although they definitely ran into some storms and heavy weather here or there, but most of the voyage of the Mary Celeste was fairly unremarkable overall, right?

• 26:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, they made it a long way.

• 26:22Josh Clark?

  It wasn't, they did. It wasn't until the last five days before they're suspected to have disappeared that the Mary Celeste's voyage turned a little odd or became a little unusual.

• 26:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:37Josh Clark?

  And they figured out that, from looking at the logbooks, that within that last five days, Captain Briggs decided that he really should have seen land by, by this time. And if you're a captain and you're a chronometer, which is basically like, from what I was, I was reading about this, it's like a portable time zone that you can use for celestial navigation to, to basically tell exactly where you are in the world. It's a very valuable tool to have at sea, but if your chronometer is, is faulty, you're not necessarily going to be where you think you are.

• 27:17Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 27:18Josh Clark?

  So based on his calculations with his chronometer, he thought that they were, they should have seen land, the Azores by then. This island chain in, in the Atlantic, kind of toward Portugal.

• 27:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like just, like dead west of southern Portugal.

• 27:34Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I think the easternmost island of the Azores is like 400 miles west of Portugal, something like that.

• 27:42Speaker 01

  Quite lovely, I imagine.

• 27:43Josh Clark?

  I can imagine too, but it's, I think it's also basically in the middle of nowhere, in the, in the mid-Atlantic.

• 27:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's one of those things where if you do the Google map, you will see these tiny specks and nothing but blue.

• 27:56Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 27:57Speaker 01

  So you gotta start zooming out to see where the heck you are.

• 27:59Josh Clark?

  Right. It's like the Hawaii of the Atlantic, I think.

• 28:02Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 28:04Josh Clark?

  So he thought that he should have seen the Azores by then, and he hadn't. So I think he started to get a little nervous because they changed course. They went northward, which he suspected would have taken him toward the Azores. And he may have been either looking to kind of re-orient himself

• 28:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:24Josh Clark?

  or just looking for Haven. Who knows? But they, they know that, that they did change course and that he wasn't where he thought he was.

• 28:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I also get the idea, which will jibe with one of the theories, is that he may have been a little nervous having his two-year-old and his wife aboard, in general.

• 28:44Josh Clark?

  Yeah, for sure. I mean, yeah, he's not just, it's not just his safety now, or even the safety of the crew. It's his little kid and his wife's safety. Of course he's gonna be worried about that.

• 28:53Speaker 01

  Exactly. Man, I can't imagine having a two-year-old on a ship. What a nightmare.

• 28:56Josh Clark?

  I know.

• 28:57Speaker 01

  Good God.

• 28:59Josh Clark?

  I know. Just go on a cruise. You can experience it a million times over.

• 29:02Speaker 01

  Oy. Yeah, 'cause a cruise ship, modern-day cruise ship is the same as a 19th-century sailing vessel.

• 29:11Josh Clark?

  It's not. You're right.

• 29:13Speaker 01

  Like, there's nothing to do.

• 29:16Josh Clark?

  No, that's true. Although they did have a melodeon, which I had to look that up as well. It's like an accordion.

• 29:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't see why they even call it something different.

• 29:24Josh Clark?

  Right, an accordion with keys.

• 29:26Speaker 01

  All right, so on, oh, as opposed to what?

• 29:32Josh Clark?

  The little buttons.

• 29:33Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 29:35Josh Clark?

  Or maybe it's the accordion with the buttons rather than the keys. It's one of the two.

• 29:39Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 29:40Josh Clark?

  You know what I'm talking about. It's like a Weird Al Yankovic-type instrument.

• 29:43Speaker 01

  Oh, well, we should get Aaron Cooper to write us, 'cause he will surely do.

• 29:47Josh Clark?

  And they, yes, I'm sure. He, so they would have had that aboard, which would have been all the, all the pleasure you could imagine.

• 29:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, like one wooden doll and an accordion is really gonna keep a two-year-old occupied.

• 30:00Josh Clark?

  And a communal salt lick just out there in the middle of the above deck.

• 30:06Speaker 01

  All right, so the next morning, they wake up and the Mary Celeste actually sees land, which I can imagine if you were a, a seaman out there in the 19th century, and you're a little worried, there is no more welcome sight than seeing land. You know, after seeing nothing but water for, for weeks and weeks. So they see land. The logbook says they saw land. They're about six miles from Santa Maria, which is the easternmost of the Azores. And this was sort of the, the last stop before you hit Portugal.

• 30:42Josh Clark?

  Right. I can imagine there, like, there was this, he just was so relieved when he saw this land.

• 30:47Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 30:48Josh Clark?

  So the reason we know this is not because anybody on the Mary Celeste told anybody, at least not verbally. They, they found the logbook and the log slate, which is kind of like you're, you're just keeping track of stuff on the slate before you actually transcribe it into the logbook. And the log slate was where they noted that 8:00 AM on November 25th, the Mary Celeste sighted land and by their calculations were six miles off of Santa Maria, right?

• 31:15Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 31:16Josh Clark?

  So that was November 25th.

• 31:18Speaker 01

  Yes. They, I guess they just had a nice Thanksgiving?

• 31:23Josh Clark?

  Yeah, maybe.

• 31:25Speaker 01

  With their salt lick? Now they had food, as we will see.

• 31:29Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 31:29Speaker 01

  Uh, so the, uh, remember the Drogacia, Drogatia, Degratia?

• 31:37Josh Clark?

  I think that's it, that last one.

• 31:39Speaker 01

  So the other ship that was being sailed by his buddy, Captain Morehouse, remember? Uh, Seaman John Johnson of that ship said, "Hey, Cappy, uh, there's a, there's another ship out here." And it's about 400 miles further east from where that log had placed that ship, the Mary Celeste.

• 32:00Josh Clark?

  Not only that, it was a good 10 or 11 days later.

• 32:04Speaker 01

  Right. So this is all spelling trouble. Uh, there, there are only three sails set. Uh, the rest of the sails had either blown away, weren't raised, this, none of this bodes well. And Captain Morehouse, I don't think he probably recognized from that distance that it was the Mary Celeste yet.

• 32:20Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 32:21Speaker 01

  But, uh, he sent his first mate, Oliver Devereux, and second mate, John Wright, and another dude, and said, "Get in that boat, row over there and see what the heck's going on."

• 32:32Josh Clark?

  Right. So these guys, Devoe and Wright, were the ones who actually got on deck and, and investigated the Mary Celeste. And I read this one article that I think just put it so perfectly, like,

• 32:42Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 32:43Josh Clark?

  just ropes creaking, like a, a door kind of banging, open and closed in, in the wind, and just utter silence as far as humans are concerned. Nobody on board the ship would be so creepy. I think that, that Oliver Devoe and John Wright probably experienced one of the creepiest e- experiences that any human ever has in the history of people.

• 33:09Speaker 01

  So is it creepier for Josh Clark, Seaman Josh, to get upon this ship?

• 33:17Josh Clark?

  Uh-huh.

• 33:17Speaker 01

  And find nobody aboard, but everything seemingly okay? Or to see dead bodies in each of the bunks?

• 33:27Josh Clark?

  Uh, it, it would be, okay, so it depends on the position of the dead bodies. Are they just kind of like crumpled and tossed like they've been thrown down, uh, onto the bed? Or something like that?

• 33:38Speaker 01

  Like have they been butchered?

• 33:39Josh Clark?

  Are they like sitting up at, at, at the dinner table or sitting up in bed?

• 33:44Speaker 01

  Or is it a Walt Disney ride?

• 33:46Josh Clark?

  That's, that's what I'm saying.

• 33:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. Or are they laying there with, uh, purple robes and Nikes, uh, Heaven's Gate style?

• 33:52Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that would be something as well. Uh, so to me creepier is, I think no one there. I think it would be more horrific to find the, the bodies, of course. But creepier would be, um, just finding a ghost ship.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  Okay. I agree, I think.

• 34:07Josh Clark?

  Cause there's the absence of something that's supposed to be there. And that's, I think, what, what would make it so creepy.

• 34:13Speaker 01

  Well, yeah. And I think the thing that really makes it creepy, as we will see, is that, that was, it wasn't like, "Hey, this ship has clearly been pirated."

• 34:22Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 34:23Speaker 01

  And people, there's blood on the walls and people have been killed. There was just nobody there, no signs of distress. Um, the, the, the sextant, the chronometer, chronometer?

• 34:34Josh Clark?

  I know, it's tougher than you'd think to say.

• 34:36Speaker 01

  The chronometer, uh, the nav book, uh, they were gone, but that log book was still there. So basically like, there was, there was food, there was drinking water, there were, everyone's clothes were there. That little girl's two, uh, the saltlick was there, her two toys were there.

• 34:51Josh Clark?

  Shoot, there was the impression from her sleeping on the bed in the captain's cabin.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  That's super creepy.

• 34:57Josh Clark?

  It is.

• 34:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:59Josh Clark?

  Um, there was, there was not, there were no signs of violence, there was no signs of like, um, uh, panic, uh, no kind of disorder. I mean, some things were out of order, but it was the kind of stuff that you could chalk up to a ship drifting at sea for a week or so.

• 35:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:15Josh Clark?

  Uh, by itself.

• 35:17Speaker 01

  Like a broken compass.

• 35:18Josh Clark?

  Right, a broken compass, like some of them, some of the, uh, sails had been blown down onto the, to the deck itself. Um, there was some water in there.

• 35:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, in the hold.

• 35:28Josh Clark?

  Right. And then one of the things they found, which is a pretty big clue, was, um, uh, improvised sounding rod, which is basically just a stick with markings on it to show feet, right?

• 35:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:40Josh Clark?

  Um, and they, you would lower that into the hold to see what, where the watermark hit. It's just to figure out how deep water is in a hold. So they clearly knew that there was water in the hold, cause they built the sounding rod, and it had been found on the deck by the, the two guys from the Degratia.

• 35:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it was only about three and a half feet of water, by all accounts. And that's not, uh, that sounds like a lot to a guy like me who's not an experienced sailor.

• 36:05Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 36:06Speaker 01

  But, uh, apparently on a ship that size, that's like no big whoop.

• 36:09Josh Clark?

  One of the other things that ties in with the water too, is they had two pumps aboard.

• 36:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:13Josh Clark?

  One of the pumps was found disassembled. So there was basically like, these guys came onto this ship and there are all these,

• 36:22Josh Clark?

  these weird, out of context things that were the result of decisions made by people who, who were now vanished.

• 36:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:31Josh Clark?

  And they had to, to try to figure this out. But one of the first things that came into their head, uh, eventually, I think when they went back to the Degratia and told Morehouse what was going on, um, in pretty short order, somebody said, "Well, we should probably take this ship to Gibraltar with us, how about that? Because there's something called salvage rights." And whether it was your friend who was missing or what have you, you would have been pretty foolish to have just

• 36:58Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 36:59Josh Clark?

  continued on your way and left the Mary Celeste. Because what they found pretty quickly, and this adds to the mystery itself as well, the Mary Celeste was totally saleable.

• 37:10Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, and I don't even think we pointed out that all the, all the, uh, denatured alcohol that they were shipping was there and intact, like,

• 37:18Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:18Speaker 01

  it's not like they had been, uh, axed into and, uh, or, uh, like what would you, pillaged?

• 37:25Josh Clark?

  Exploded?

• 37:26Speaker 01

  Or exploded. It was all there, all the, all the gear onboard was there. So there was a lot to salvage, in other words. Cause not only can you salvage the ship, but the cargo.

• 37:37Josh Clark?

  Exactly.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  And what it come out to, like, between 45 and 80 grand in today dollars,

• 37:42Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:42Speaker 01

  uh, is what he could have potentially gotten for salvaging this thing.

• 37:46Josh Clark?

  Yeah, because the, at the time, the insurers owed a reward to whoever salvaged a ship like this. Um, and, and it could run up to 100% of the value of the cargo or the ship.

• 37:57Speaker 01

  Mutual of Nova Scotia.

• 37:59Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 38:00Speaker 01

  Who paid good dollars.

• 38:01Josh Clark?

  Which, I mean, man, you wanna see a board stuffed with neck beards?

• 38:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:06Josh Clark?

  Go to that bank.

• 38:10Speaker 01

  Oh, that's good. Um, all right, so they, like you said, decided to do the smart thing and the right thing. Cause, and it was his friend, just besides the fact that, uh, I mean, anyone would have tried to salvage the ship, but it was also his pal, so I think that probably had a little to do with him saying, or maybe it was just all the money.

• 38:30Josh Clark?

  Uh, no, I think it was both. I'm sure he was concerned. I've, I've read accounts that he was, he was concerned by this.

• 38:35Speaker 01

  He said, "I very concerned."

• 38:37Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 38:38Speaker 01

  Arr, arr, arr. The end.

• 38:40Josh Clark?

  So they, they take this boat, they actually took, um, there was three guys. One of them was, uh, Oliver Devoe, who was, um, the first mate of the Degratia. He was in charge of sailing this.

• 38:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, very important note.

• 38:53Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that he, he sailed with just two other guys. This, um, the Mary Celeste, they pumped out the, the water from the hold, they, they fixed the sails. And the night of the day that they found it, they set sail for Gibraltar. And just three dudes sailed this thing successfully, 1,000 kilometers from where it was found onto Gibraltar.

• 39:16Speaker 01

  Not bad.

• 39:16Josh Clark?

  Where they took it to the, uh, salvage court and said, "Pay up."

• 39:22Speaker 01

  That's right. And this is where things get a little bit weird. Because, uh, there was a man there, uh, the Queen's Proctor in Gibraltar, by the name of Frederick Soliflood.

• 39:32Josh Clark?

  Man, that could not be more British.

• 39:34Speaker 01

  I know. And he basically said, "Hmm, this is, uh, you say there was nobody there at all, there's no explanation for any of this, and you want, uh, the equivalent of $27,000 of $45,000 to $80,000?"

• 39:53Josh Clark?

  Thank you, West Egg.

• 39:54Speaker 01

  We should have, we should have done it in reverse.

• 39:56Josh Clark?

  I think that was in their dollars, $1872.

• 40:01Speaker 01

  No, it says contemporary estimate. Doesn't that mean?

• 40:06Josh Clark?

  No, contemporary at the time.

• 40:08Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 40:10Josh Clark?

  I think it, I think that was an estimate in their dollars.

• 40:13Speaker 01

  Is there such a thing as contemporary at the time? Doesn't that always mean now?

• 40:17Josh Clark?

  I don't know.

• 40:19Josh Clark?

  I got it, I could have gotten it wrong. It's entirely possible.

• 40:22Speaker 01

  All right. Well, it's, it's 2018 and we're, we're just figuring stuff out here, folks, so. Give us a break.

• 40:28Josh Clark?

  So, it, it's in their dollars, so I'm almost positive.

• 40:32Speaker 01

  Okay, well, at any rate, he was, uh, Soli Flood said, "This is, um, seems really hinky to me, guys." And Devoe, you, sir, since you boarded the thing first, you sailed it here, you are the star witness in this case. Uh, he gave his testimony, it was very clear, nothing weird about it, he was very honest, cause by all accounts, he had nothing to hide. And, uh, but Soli Flood's just was suspicious from the beginning.

• 41:00Josh Clark?

  Yeah, so much so that during this investigation, and, and this would be like going to probate court, and all of a sudden, the, the representative for the state accuses you of murdering your grandma, who's state, who's the state you're in charge of, of taking through probate.

• 41:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:16Josh Clark?

  And then suddenly, there's this murder investigation.

• 41:18Speaker 01

  Without any evidence of anything.

• 41:20Josh Clark?

  Right, just based on the prosecutor's suspicions, right?

• 41:24Speaker 01

  Well, and that granny disappeared without a trace.

• 41:27Josh Clark?

  Well, oh yeah, that's a big one too, I forgot that part.

• 41:30Speaker 01

  But, you know.

• 41:30Josh Clark?

  But, but, so that's basically what happened to these guys. So they were pretty surprised by this. And Soli Flood launched this investigation, they, they inspected the, um, the Mary Celeste, they found marks on this, the railing, which Soli Flood was like, "These are clearly hatchet marks." There was discoloration on Captain Briggs's sword, "This is clearly blood." Well, it turned out that the hatchet marks, the axe marks, were actually from the construction of the, um, of the ship. That wasn't axe marks, so no violence there. There wasn't blood on, on Briggs's sword, it was just rust. But, um, Soli Flood was so determined to prosecute these guys, that he suppressed the test results.

• 42:12Josh Clark?

  Um, that, that showed that this was not blood on the sword, that it was actually rust. He really wanted to get these two.

• 42:19Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, and here's the deal, I think things really ramped up when, um, here's what happened. Before all of this, like, uh, deep investigation, uh, remember, the, the, Morehouse still has his ship that was waylaid. And so he says, "Hey, Devoe, I gotta stay here for this thing, to collect this dough." You keep, you just go on to Genoa, you've already testified, and take our cargo of petroleum, "Cause I gotta get this stuff here, I'm losing money."

• 42:45Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 42:46Speaker 01

  And so he did so, and so all of a sudden, Soli Flood was like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, he was the, he was the number one witness, and you've just sent this guy away, so now I'm super suspicious."

• 42:56Josh Clark?

  Yep, but, uh, Devoe came back, he's like, "What? What's going on, everybody?"

• 43:01Speaker 01

  What's the big deal? Here's some salami.

• 43:03Josh Clark?

  So, finally, um, Soli Flood just couldn't come up with any evidence of foul play. Uh, but, apparently did raise enough suspicion that the, the probate judge said, "You know what, we'll give you guys a reward, but it, it's gonna be like a tenth of what you actually deserve."

• 43:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:23Josh Clark?

  So they got a reward of seventeen hundred pounds, um, which was jack, even in that day.

• 43:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:31Josh Clark?

  Um, and they, uh, they were allowed to go on their way. The Mary Celeste was finally released in February, this, this all began in December. She was released in February to finally carry her, uh, cargo of alcohol to Genoa.

• 43:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:46Josh Clark?

  For Genoa, and, um, that would have been that. And what's weird is when you think about this ghost ship, you just think like, well, obviously, they, they took her out of service or commission. You gotta remember, this is a business venture, a ship in those days, just like they are today, it's a business venture. And business people are not exactly the sentimental types usually. So, once she got to Genoa, they got a new crew, a new captain, and put her right back into service again.

• 44:15Speaker 01

  So, as you say, it, uh, just is back out there on the market again, um, taking cargo around the world. And it ran, uh, aground off a reef of Haiti in eighteen eighty-five. And this was all, this is just kind of a weird ending to this ship, uh, that was super unlucky. Uh, or maybe cursed, who knows? Of course, that stuff isn't real. But, um, it ran aground, uh, in Haiti as part of this insurance fraud scheme. So, they cooked up this scheme, who was the, uh, what was the guy's name? The captain?

• 44:52Josh Clark?

  Captain Gilman Perkins.

• 44:54Speaker 01

  All right, so here's what he did, he basically, it's like any insurance fraud you could imagine today. Like, when I was a kid, there was this, uh,

• 45:03Speaker 01

  you know, I didn't grow up in a big neighborhood, I grew up on a street with like seven houses, and it was a dirt road until I was like twelve.

• 45:09Josh Clark?

  With the murder house?

• 45:10Speaker 01

  No, I, uh, oh, what murder house?

• 45:13Josh Clark?

  Was it a murder house or a haunted house? I can't remember. There was one down the street from you that you were scared to death of.

• 45:18Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, this was that. So, that one was torn down, but a big house was built in its place, but the old barn from the murdery haunted house, uh, was still there. And my brother and I would, used to go exploring, is what we'll call it now. We basically busted into this barn, and we're just checking things out one day. And then about two weeks later, the thing burned down. And I remember being a little kid and these insurance detectives, is that what they're called?

• 45:49Josh Clark?

  They are now.

• 45:50Speaker 01

  Insurance, whatever, investigators?

• 45:52Josh Clark?

  Uh, uh, claims investigator?

• 45:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, they, they came by and questioned Scott and I, and we're like, "What was in that thing?" Cause this guy's claiming, like, hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of, I can't remember what all he said was in there, and, you know, we were little kids, so we just told the truth, we're like, "Hell, none of that stuff was in there."

• 46:09Josh Clark?

  We stole that.

• 46:10Speaker 01

  It's a bunch of old file cabinets and just a bunch of junk, it was just like a junk barn. And, so I'm not even, I need to ask my mom, I'm not sure whatever happened with that, but, um.

• 46:19Josh Clark?

  That guy's probably still in jail because of eight-year-old Chuck.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  Good.

• 46:23Josh Clark?

  That's funny. He got some guy sent up the river.

• 46:26Speaker 01

  The law prevailed, uh, but that's basically what happened here, is this guy purposely wrecks the ship and says, "Man, there was a lot of really valuable stuff on board, I was, I was toting a bunch of Bass ale, like, the real Bass ale, that we still enjoy today."

• 46:43Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 46:43Speaker 01

  Uh, and then, what else was there? There was a bunch of really expensive shoes.

• 46:47Josh Clark?

  Cutlery.

• 46:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, a bunch of cutlery.

• 46:49Josh Clark?

  Fine fish, fine butter.

• 46:51Speaker 01

  And what was in there? A bunch of garbage.

• 46:53Josh Clark?

  It was, so, so this guy purposely runs the ship aground, it's insured by five different insurers for a total of thirty-four grand.

• 47:01Speaker 01

  A lot of dough.

• 47:02Josh Clark?

  In eighteen seventy-two dollars, contemporary dollars. And, and they probably would have gotten away with this. Uh, but, the captain, Gilman Perkins, went ashore and sold salvage rights to this cargo, this fine cargo that was supposedly on the ship, to a, a local, um, salvage person in Haiti. And had, had he not conned the salvager, then they may, again, they may have gotten away with this. But the salvager went aboard to get this, to recover this cargo, this Bass, this, um, great butter, great shoes, cutlery, all this stuff, and found, like you said, just pure nastiness there.

• 47:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's a bunch of junk ale, a lot of the bottles weren't even filled, there were dog collars instead of, uh, shoes.

• 47:51Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 47:52Speaker 01

  Uh, what else? The cutlery, no, no, the cutlery was do- dog collars, these boots were old galoshes.

• 47:59Josh Clark?

  Yeah, the women's fine shoes.

• 48:02Speaker 01

  Just classic scam.

• 48:03Josh Clark?

  The butter was rank slush, I think, is what it was called. So this con, this con man, or the, um, salvager's like, "I've been conned," and alerts the authorities, who get on the case and finally track it all the way back to Boston. And Captain Perkins, the last captain of the Mary Celeste, remember, the first captain died, the third or fourth captain disappeared, and the last captain of the ship is facing, uh, the gallows for barratry, which is deliberate destroying of a ship.

• 48:30Speaker 01

  It's a great crime.

• 48:32Josh Clark?

  Narrowly avoided being executed for it. Um, I think the jury came back seven to five, and he got off, just narrowly avoided being killed for it.

• 48:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know why he got off.

• 48:44Josh Clark?

  The, uh, the, the article I read by a guy named Paul Collins, um, supposed that the jury just couldn't bring themselves to kill a person for an insurance fraud scheme.

• 48:54Speaker 01

  Uh.

• 48:55Josh Clark?

  And that was, that was it, and actually, a couple of years after, they, they changed the law, so that barratry was no longer a capital offense. Um, but you could still get in big trouble for it, but a jury would be more likely to convict if it didn't mean your death, you know?

• 49:09Speaker 01

  Right.

• 49:09Josh Clark?

  So the, the, the Mary Celeste, run aground on this reef, met its fate when, uh, I guess, the government of Haiti paid for, um, it to be dousing kerosene instead of flame.

• 49:23Speaker 01

  All right, well, let's take a break, and we'll come back and talk a little bit about how the, the legend of the Mary Celeste lived on, and then what may have actually happened that fateful day in November.

• 49:50Speaker 04

  Welcome to the Haunted Library. Have you come in search of a tale? This podcast invites you to browse the shelves and find stories that will linger long after you've left this place. From Gothic masterpieces to poppy penny dreadfuls. Join me, Colin Morgan, with new episodes twice a week. Find the Haunted Library wherever you get your podcasts.

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• 51:39Speaker 01

  All right, so, uh, the Mary Celeste, it wasn't some huge sensational story of the time. Locally, it probably got a little news, but it wasn't like, you know, it didn't sweep the world. But there was a story written by one Sir Arthur Conan Doyle called Jay Habakook Jepson's Statement in 1884.

• 52:17Josh Clark?

  That's the worst made-up name I've ever heard.

• 52:19Speaker 01

  In Cornhill Magazine, also worst magazine name ever.

• 52:22Josh Clark?

  Yeah, but it was like a huge magazine at the time.

• 52:25Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah?

• 52:26Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:27Speaker 01

  I know it outsold Cornhole Magazine.

• 52:29Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 52:30Speaker 01

  Uh, so he writes a story, and what it is, is basically this sensationalistic, uh, fake account of the Mary Celeste, but everyone takes it as real.

• 52:42Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and he renamed the ship the Marie Celeste. I don't know if it was a mistake on his part or whatever, but that also muddies the waters these days, too, as far as Google searches go.

• 52:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, so everyone thought this thing was real. Um, all these, uh, basically it presented a bunch of things as fact, made up a bunch of stuff like, um, the tea was still hot and steaming when they climbed aboard, and the beds were still warm, and, uh, it was sailing perfectly and fully sailed, and breakfast was half eaten, and like, there's a cigar still burning. None of this stuff was true. It was all cooked up to make the myth just even creepier, but a lot of people, even today, still think that stuff is kind of true.

• 53:27Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm. Did he make all that up, or was it just kind of added to later on?

• 53:33Speaker 01

  Well, I think, I don't know what exactly he made up, but it basically, over the years, everyone just started adding stuff like that the lifeboat was still there, you know?

• 53:43Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 53:44Speaker 01

  Like, none of that stuff was true.

• 53:45Josh Clark?

  Right. So, um, all of those, those facts, I'm making scare quotes as you can see, um, they are, they, they, they lend credence to like really outrageous solutions to this mystery, right?

• 53:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:59Josh Clark?

  Like, there've been a lot, well, some, some aren't exactly outrageous or preposterous, they're just, the evidence doesn't support them. Some are just totally outrageous, right?

• 54:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:07Josh Clark?

  So you can kind of divide them into different categories, like the natural, um, phenomenon. There could have been a sea quake, um, which I guess happens, and that usually disturbs the sea above when the seafloor has a massive earthquake, waterspouts, rogue waves. Remember, we did a really good episode on rogue waves?

• 54:27Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 54:28Josh Clark?

  Remember that one? Um, giant squid, giant octopus, which-

• 54:32Speaker 01

  That's a good one.

• 54:33Josh Clark?

  -fall under the subcategory sea monster. That's the natural stuff.

• 54:38Speaker 01

  Sigma the sea monster?

• 54:39Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 54:40Speaker 01

  Um, all right, then there's piracy and murder. Uh, these, just for the time, would make a little more sense. Um, like Conan Doyle said, uh, that there was an ex-slave bent on revenge who just wanted to kill white people.

• 55:01Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 55:02Speaker 01

  And that was in his story, so that, that clearly ramped things up. Uh, there was a movie in the 30s with Bela Lugosi, that he was a, uh, one of the crew members was a murderous sailor.

• 55:11Josh Clark?

  With a hook.

• 55:13Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 55:14Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 55:15Speaker 01

  All right, well, they always had hooks. Um, Captain Briggs was overcome with religious mania, killed everyone on board, including his family.

• 55:23Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 55:24Speaker 01

  Uh, then killed himself. Uh, then there was the mutiny theory that everyone got into this alcohol that you couldn't even drink.

• 55:30Josh Clark?

  No, you would die, like, almost immediately.

• 55:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess just got the drunken murderers, the drunken murder rampage. You know what happens when you drink a little? You just want to kill.

• 55:42Josh Clark?

  Right, exactly. Well, do you remember, um, I guess in our prohibition episode, it was shown years on that the US government had poisoned the, the bootleg hooch supply-

• 55:54Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 55:55Josh Clark?

  -with denatured alcohol, and people died and went blind from it? This was this stuff.

• 55:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:59Josh Clark?

  That's what they put into the supply.

• 56:00Speaker 01

  Well, and then there's the, just the kind of mundane pirate, piratry, like, hey, this was where there were North African pirates, and, uh, that's probably what happened, is they were, it was just a regular, uh, run-of-the-mill pirate operation.

• 56:14Josh Clark?

  Yeah, but whether it's like any kind of violence, like a, um, religious fervor or pirates or something like that, there was not, uh, any sign of struggle, remember? And the one lifeboat was missing. So there, it would seem that if they got off the ship, they probably got off willingly rather than, um, there having been some sort of violence.

• 56:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then the, also, the, uh, the two brothers, there were a couple of brothers who were two of the crew members, Volkert and Boy Lorenzen, and they were suspects for a little while because none of their personal possessions were found. What, apparently there was no motive whatsoever, and, uh, a descendant of them said, you know, they had lost all their gear in a previous shipwreck, so just none of that makes any sense. They were good guys.

• 57:05Josh Clark?

  Right. So probably was not murder, right?

• 57:07Speaker 01

  Probably not.

• 57:09Josh Clark?

  Plus also the idea that the crew had come across another ship, pirated it, turned pirate all of a sudden, uh, and were led by Briggs. The idea that, and then just, just took this other ship and set off, set sail to start a new life elsewhere. Um, doesn't make much sense on its face, but even if you dig down just a, one more degree and remember that they left their son Arthur behind-

• 57:33Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 57:34Josh Clark?

  -who became an orphan on the day that the De Gracia found the Mary Celeste, that's even, it lends even less credence to, to that, so-

• 57:43Speaker 01

  Unless they didn't like Arthur.

• 57:44Josh Clark?

  Yeah, again, he was fairly dim-witted.

• 57:47Speaker 01

  They left him behind.

• 57:48Josh Clark?

  Not a very likable kid. He had a real temper for no good reason. Didn't like cake. Who doesn't like cake?

• 57:53Speaker 01

  I know.

• 57:55Josh Clark?

  So, um, the murder, piracy, or lastly, so remember the Captain Morehouse-

• 58:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:03Josh Clark?

  -dined with, uh, Captain Briggs and his wife the night before they headed out?

• 58:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:09Josh Clark?

  And then Captain Morehouse is the one who found the ship and claimed salvage rights to it. The idea that it was fraud, maybe a fraudulent scheme cooked up, that one's really dismissed, too, again, by the presence of Arthur.

• 58:21Speaker 01

  Right. Arthur ruined everything.

• 58:23Josh Clark?

  So you can dismiss murder, piracy, or fraud typically?

• 58:27Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 58:28Josh Clark?

  What about paranormal?

• 58:30Speaker 01

  Let's go ahead and dismiss that, too.

• 58:32Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 58:33Speaker 01

  Because I don't think that, uh, the Bermuda Triangle ate them, or that, uh, aliens, it's aliens, man, I don't think that happened.

• 58:41Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's a big one.

• 58:43Speaker 01

  Uh, so let's just go ahead and not even talk about that too much, because that's dumb.

• 58:48Josh Clark?

  So that, that Frederick Solihull's obsession with this whole thing at the time, contemporarily?

• 58:55Josh Clark?

  Docu- presented like the documented evidence we have concerning the case. So it's good that he, he did this, that he was gripped by this, this paranoia, this suspicion, right?

• 59:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:07Josh Clark?

  Because we do know some facts about the thing. We know that like, like we said, the ship was found with just three, three sails up and the rest were either blown down or unfurled. The lifeboat was missing. There was a rope dangling over the, the side from the back of the ship into the water.

• 59:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:25Josh Clark?

  Nine of the seventeen hundred and one casks were intact, but were actually empty.

• 59:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:32Josh Clark?

  And on closer inspection, they were made of red oak, which is more porous than white oak, which the other seventeen hundred and one barrels were made of and were intact and still full. So we know these things about this ship that, that, that are actually correct and they've been put together to, to kind of create this explanation that again is, is isn't definitive, doesn't prove it once and for all what happened. That'll never happen now, which I love. But there's, there's a pretty good explanation. I think that we both kind of agree is, is the likeliest explanation.

• 1:00:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. So those casks that, that leaked, but did not explode or anything, uh, there could have been a smell. There could have been a sound. There could have been just some indication that maybe this ship is about to blow up or we are in danger. Uh, they had taken on a little water that might've played into it. But what really everyone thinks played into it is, like we said at the beginning, was he had his wife and, and toddler aboard. So he was taking no chances, which would thoroughly explain why they got off of that boat really quickly at the very first signs that something could be wrong.

• 1:00:47Josh Clark?

  Right. So those nine red oak barrels that were empty had three hundred gallons of denatured, highly flammable alcohol in them.

• 1:00:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, it would have smelled.

• 1:00:57Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it would have smelled. It could have created a fireball explosion. Um, it could have blown the hatches off. Uh, it could have done a lot of things that, that would have made a reasonable person, especially one that's also concerned for the life of his wife and child, say, the likeliest thing we should do here, the most reasonable thing we should do here is get off of this ship. So considering that there was this alcohol aboard, some of it was missing, um, and that the lifeboat was gone and that the logbook showed that they were within sight of land at the last time they'd made any kind of entry

• 1:01:34Josh Clark?

  supports the idea that they had all gotten into the lifeboat willingly because probably that alcohol and then the, uh, the, the water that the ship had taken on.

• 1:01:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. And apparently in 2006, there was a study at University College of London where they, they tried to reproduce what that explosion might have looked like and uh, sounded like. And, uh, they did it with butane. So I guess, is that about the same thing?

• 1:02:01Josh Clark?

  I don't know why they used butane instead of alcohol vapors. I have no idea why, but they, they feel like it was pretty definitive.

• 1:02:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so basically it caused a big brilliant flame and made a sound, but because it was this vapor, there was no, it didn't like burn everything up. It didn't scorch anything. There was no soot. There was no evidence. So if this would have happened on board, this guy's got his wife and his toddler, that would have been enough to create a panic. And that, that's where my money is for sure.

• 1:02:28Josh Clark?

  For sure. And plus also, I mean, like that, that the explosion of the exploding alcohol theory had been around for a while, but had been dismissed because they were like, well, it would have left some evidence, but this study showed that no, it could have actually blown, blown up, scare the heck out of these people and gotten them off this boat into the lifeboat, which they would have had, um, connected to this ship, the Mary Celeste.

• 1:02:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:02:52Josh Clark?

  By this four hundred foot or four hundred yards. It was a very long rope, inch thick rope.

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:58Josh Clark?

  Called a halliard and they had connected the lifeboat to it. And what they supposed happened was that, um, they kept a few of the sails down, some of them, uh, still furled, uh, to let the ship keep going, but at a slow pace because it was going to, they were going to have to ride behind it for an indefinite period of time. And that the wind caught it just right, sped the ship up, snapped the line, and then within an hour, the lifeboat was adrift with the Mary Celeste out of sight.

• 1:03:29Speaker 01

  So is the idea that they got in the boat attached with the rope attached to just say, hey, let's like get away from it and see what happens here?

• 1:03:37Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 1:03:38Speaker 01

  Okay. And then, and then it just starts going. The rope is gone. And then they're like, well, can't catch it now.

• 1:03:44Josh Clark?

  Right. And, and they would have been left adrift at sea, um, to die, which is what everybody thinks happened.

• 1:03:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I guess at the time there would be, uh, unless it got really lucky or unlucky and the, the rowboat eventually, uh, washed ashore somewhere, there would just be no trace, right?

• 1:04:05Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 1:04:06Speaker 01

  They just were fish food.

• 1:04:07Josh Clark?

  Yeah. I mean, if they're out in the Atlantic, especially if they just, uh, six miles away from an island that's in the middle of nowhere is pretty, pretty middle of nowhere.

• 1:04:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:17Josh Clark?

  If you're in a small boat, there, you would, you, it'd be very easy to vanish without a trace forever.

• 1:04:22Speaker 01

  Man, I bet that, like that story is the sad one is what those final days were like.

• 1:04:27Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 1:04:28Speaker 01

  That kid, man.

• 1:04:30Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:31Speaker 01

  It's heartbreaking.

• 1:04:32Josh Clark?

  So, uh, that's the story of the Mary Celeste.

• 1:04:36Speaker 01

  Good job.

• 1:04:37Josh Clark?

  Good job you Chuck.

• 1:04:39Speaker 01

  I feel like we kicked the rest off the sword on this one.

• 1:04:42Josh Clark?

  If you want to know more about the Mary Celeste, there is plenty more to dig into. I, this is a, a nice rabbit hole to jump down. If you want to do that kind of thing, just go search Google, say, no, Google, I mean, Mary Celeste and, uh, start it off. You'll have fun.

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:04:57Josh Clark?

  And in the, in the meantime, it's time for listener mail.

• 1:05:02Speaker 01

  Uh, I'm going to call this, uh, local listener. Uh, hey guys, my name is Sally and I am a sophomore at Emory University. Started listening to Stuff You Should Know two years ago when I was on a school exchange in Beijing. What began as a fun way to, uh, bide time and bumper to bumper traffic, uh, turned into a complete obsession. Your quick banter made me feel at home on the other side of the world. While your engaging and well-developed topics reignited my love of learning. Uh, since leaving Emory, I frequently imagine bumping into you guys and Decatur in Atlanta and having the opportunity to chat about your journey from college kids at UGA to potentially the most interesting and vibrant guys I've heard.

• 1:05:41Josh Clark?

  Wow.

• 1:05:42Speaker 01

  You're vibrant, buddy.

• 1:05:43Josh Clark?

  Thank you.

• 1:05:44Speaker 01

  I'm fascinated by how you do what you do, and there's nothing I would love more than to be a fly on the wall of the show. Uh, from your creative process to your tangential tidbits, whatever topic you happen to be covering, I am fully captivated by every facet. It's nice, huh?

• 1:05:59Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:00Speaker 01

  Uh, I still have not declared a major. She wrote a lot more really nice stuff, but, um, I had to edit it for content.

• 1:06:07Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 1:06:07Speaker 01

  Uh, or for time. I have still not declared a major and I'm still essentially a ball of frenetic energy, but you guys have helped me because you helped me tap into that frenetic energy and productively exercise my burning, insatiable desire to learn, to think, to question and to grow now as a young adult. And until the nurses need to pinch my oxygen tank and physically made me stop.

• 1:06:28Josh Clark?

  Well done.

• 1:06:29Speaker 01

  A million thanks. That is Sally Jinx.

• 1:06:32Josh Clark?

  Thanks a lot Sally. That's pretty great. Um.

• 1:06:34Speaker 01

  Very sweet.

• 1:06:35Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it is. And good luck with the rest of your schooling.

• 1:06:39Speaker 01

  Agreed.

• 1:06:40Josh Clark?

  If you want to get in touch with us and pay us some high compliments like Sally did, we're always down with that. You can tweet to us at Josh Umm Clark or S Y S K Podcast. You can hit us up on Facebook.com slash Stuff You Should Know or slash Charles W. Chuck Bryant. You can send us all an email to [email protected]. And as always, join us at our home on the web, stuffyoushouldknow.com.

• 1:07:07Speaker 03

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• 1:07:56Speaker 04

  Welcome to the haunted library. Have you come in search of a tale? This podcast invites you to browse the shelves and find stories that will linger long after you've left this place. From Gothic masterpieces to puppy penny dreadfuls. Join me, Colin Morgan, with new episodes twice a week. Find the haunted library wherever you get your podcasts.

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