Behind the Scenes Minis: Onion Footprints

Tracy talks about how she came to love onions after disliking them as a child. Holly discusses her fear of heights, and questions evidence in Ludwig II's death. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 0:04Speaker 01

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• 0:34Holly Frey?

  A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx, listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We've all tumbled down an internet rabbit hole trying to self-diagnose, and it leaves us more anxious than informed. Our feeds are full of wellness trends, but how do we know what's real, what's exaggerated, and what's just wrong?

• 1:17Holly Frey?

  Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association breaks it all down. Emmy-nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez talks to doctors, influencers, and real people trying these trends, not to cancel them, but to understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. So, listen to Health vs. Hype wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:37Tracy V. Wilson?

  The Old Gays are back with Silver Linings, their lovable podcast from iHeart's Ruby Studio in partnership with ViiV Healthcare. Robert, Mick, Bill, and Jessa strut back down memory lane for season two, sharing lessons on life, love, and loss. These are the kind of insights that only come from experience. So, tune into Silver Linings with The Old Gays on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You ever show up late to the game and your friends already saved your seat, your drink, even a plate? That's looking out. That's having your back. And that's exactly what AT&T does with the AT&T Guarantee. They know staying connected matters, so they actually guarantee a network that comes through when it counts.

• 2:20Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 2:38Holly Frey?

  Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio.

• 2:49Tracy V. Wilson?

  Hello and happy Friday. I'm Tracy V. Wilson.

• 2:52Holly Frey?

  And I'm Holly Frey.

• 2:53Tracy V. Wilson?

  We talked about the Onion Futures Act and an attempt to corner the onion market this week.

• 3:00Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 3:01Tracy V. Wilson?

  A story that I found to be very silly.

• 3:04Holly Frey?

  Best flavor.

• 3:05Tracy V. Wilson?

  I also found just the whole concept pretty silly. Just the concept of futures, all of the vagaries of financial transactions that at this point today may or may not involve ever owning an actual piece of anything.

• 3:25Holly Frey?

  An onion.

• 3:26Tracy V. Wilson?

  An onion, yeah. It's a little weird to me. Also, unrelated to that, when I was a child, I did not like onions. The texture of them really, really bothered me. And I would be very stubborn about not eating things that had chunks of onion in them.

• 3:48Holly Frey?

  Bring it on.

• 3:49Tracy V. Wilson?

  And then I became an adult, and I was at work, and one of my coworkers was having coworkers over after work, over to his house. And he put a bunch of vegetables on the grill to grill, and like, that included big wedges of onion. And I could smell the big wedges of onion and kind of went, that smells, that smells really good.

• 4:11Holly Frey?

  So good.

• 4:12Tracy V. Wilson?

  What if, what if I try that? And I was at that point, I think I had crossed the 30-year-old threshold. Like, I was a fully grown adult, and the onion was so delicious. And now, it opened up a whole world of onion acceptability slash deliciousness for me.

• 4:32Holly Frey?

  Onion magic. Bring it on.

• 4:34Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yep.

• 4:37Holly Frey?

  I was just thinking about onions. My only funny onion story as a kid, because I loved them from youth. My mom really liked those little, you know, baby onions that you could get in jars. And my brother, who was a good bit older than me, was really intent that he hated them. And then she lied to him and told him they were turtle legs, and then he wanted to eat them, and he ate them like, nonstop after that. I don't know when he realized that was a, a piece of vegetation and not a turtle egg. Or why he thought a turtle egg would be delicious. But that's one of those family stories that I had not thought about until just this moment.

• 5:09Tracy V. Wilson?

  There were a number of things I had texture problems with as a child that I eventually learned to love.

• 5:16Holly Frey?

  I was pretty good about most stuff until my older siblings were like, no, that's yucky. And then sometimes I would be like, oh, that's yucky. Like, I loved liver when I was a little kid.

• 5:26Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh.

• 5:27Holly Frey?

  And then one of my siblings was like, liver is gross. And I was like, I guess it's gross, but like...

• 5:32Tracy V. Wilson?

  I think I had that broadly speaking from learning on television that children don't like vegetables.

• 5:38Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 5:38Tracy V. Wilson?

  But like, I would still eat them. I would eat the broccoli and the carrots. I would just complain about it. But onions, big chunks of tomato, various things that just textures were a problem for me.

• 5:50Holly Frey?

  Yeah, I like vegetables more as an adult than I did as a kid, but I think part of that, my mom was a great cook in many ways, but she didn't do a lot of interesting things with vegetables. It was very much like...

• 6:02Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 6:03Holly Frey?

  Often canned vegetables just kind of heated up. And now, I'm like, she never once roasted a Brussels sprout? She didn't know how delicious?

• 6:13Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:15Holly Frey?

  And I literally, if you want to just throw a bunch of onions on a baking sheet and roast it...

• 6:23Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 6:23Holly Frey?

  I'll just eat that. Caramelized onions in a pan? There is nothing to top that. Now, I want that at my lunch. I love onions very much.

• 6:33Tracy V. Wilson?

  Very good.

• 6:34Holly Frey?

  Talking about onions so much, though, is hilarious to me, because it's just a weird word.

• 6:38Tracy V. Wilson?

  It's, yeah, I agree. I felt like the outline for this was very silly. The explanations were very silly. The fact that we had to start with what is, to me, not the most interesting explanation of what futures are, but you, you needed to kind of have a sense of what that was for the rest of it to make sense.

• 6:58Holly Frey?

  That's one of those things I still struggle with. Like, I understand it in theory, but then when you hear about like, big crimes of it, like The Big Short, you know, covered the housing stuff, I still find myself making quizzical puppy face and going, do I understand this correctly? I'm never confident of my understanding. I did think a lot about Grandpa Simpson, but that's a different thing. As was the way at the time. I also, there was a Bruce McCullough character on Kids in the Hall that was a little kid that would just like, overshare a lot of odd things. Did you ever watch Kids in the Hall?

• 7:37Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yes, but like, off and on.

• 7:39Holly Frey?

  It was the kid that would occasionally say, all Zaid is onions. And I don't know why, there he was. I also want a shirt that says Chicago Butter and Egg Board.

• 7:51Tracy V. Wilson?

  Butter and Egg Board?

• 7:51Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 7:52Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 7:53Holly Frey?

  Maybe we should start making more shirts for our shirt store that exists that we never talk about.

• 7:57Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, we never talk about the shirt store, and we haven't added anything new to the shirt store. And the fact that we have said the shirt store just now, and I'm not sure even the URL of the shirt store, it does exist.

• 8:09Holly Frey?

  Me either, but we're going to get right on that, because I do have ideas. Popes.

• 8:14Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 8:15Holly Frey?

  So, we wondered which popes he could have had an audience with.

• 8:19Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 8:19Holly Frey?

  We're not saying he did have an audience with these popes. But these are the, these are the four that were potential, and I'll tell you the three that I think it would have been. Some of this is just based on the fact that this crime played out in 1956. He couldn't do anything for a minute, and then he started opening his restaurant and generated so much money that he gave to the Catholic Church.

• 8:41Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 8:41Holly Frey?

  Is that your understanding of when those donations began?

• 8:44Tracy V. Wilson?

  So, I under, my understanding of the donations is that, that it didn't necessarily follow the, the establishment of the restaurant, but did follow his incredibly lucrative onion farming and trading.

• 9:00Holly Frey?

  Okay, great. I think it would have been too late for Pius XII, who was Pope. I almost said rule, who ruled until, but that's very, we're thinking about...

• 9:10Tracy V. Wilson?

  That's a different thing.

• 9:11Holly Frey?

  Different, different kinds of things. He was Pope until 1958, so I think that's too early. I think the real candidates are St. John XXIII, who did 1958 to 1963. St. Paul VI, who ruled from 63 to 78.

• 9:28Tracy V. Wilson?

  You said ruled again.

• 9:29Holly Frey?

  I did. Great, who was the Pope from those years? Sorry, my brain can't get over it.

• 9:34Tracy V. Wilson?

  Well, we are talking about royalty later in this recording session.

• 9:38Holly Frey?

  We are, and that is exactly what's on my, my mind. Because then there's, John Paul I was not Pope for very long, just like, a little over a month.

• 9:46Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, really?

• 9:46Holly Frey?

  In 1978, so I don't think that was a likely one. He died 33 days after he became Pope. And so, then I think we're at John Paul II, who of course, was Pope for a very long time, 26 years, like 26 and a half years, something like that, starting in 1978. So, I think that would have had to have been the one. It has to be John Paul II, Paul VI, or John XXIII. Those have to be the ones. If he in fact had...

• 10:15Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. Which, maybe he did.

• 10:18Holly Frey?

  Maybe.

• 10:19Tracy V. Wilson?

  May, like, maybe all of those things really happened. It just seems very vague. Yeah. And I had done a fair amount of the research on the episode, including pulling up all of these documents related to the hearing that they had to go through and all of that kind of thing, before... I can't remember if I read an article in kind of a generalist casual publication, or if I listened to a podcast on it. Like, there was some, something. It might have even been that NPR story from 2015. But suddenly, he was portrayed as a character in a way that he had not been

• 11:03Holly Frey?

  Right.

• 11:04Tracy V. Wilson?

  in the other research. And I was like, what is, like, where did this come from? And then I realized the source for this seemed to be one book, and that it really, like, it felt like everybody was repeating the same basic story points from this one book over and over. And I am not in any way suggesting that, like, there's anything wrong with this book. The only parts of it that I have read are the part that is about this. And when you are writing something that is not for an academic audience, it is absolutely normal to interview a bunch of people, write your chapter, and not have footnotes for every single

• 11:44Holly Frey?

  Right.

• 11:45Tracy V. Wilson?

  piece of information.

• 11:45Holly Frey?

  Right.

• 11:46Tracy V. Wilson?

  Like, it's just not that kind of book. But that also meant I wasn't able to verify any detail in it, because I don't know who said those particular things.

• 11:56Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 11:57Tracy V. Wilson?

  I do know that, you know, poring through newspaper archives, I did not find substantiation for things that seem like they would have been newsworthy.

• 12:08Holly Frey?

  Right.

• 12:08Tracy V. Wilson?

  So, yeah. Yeah.

• 12:11Holly Frey?

  Uh, onions.

• 12:13Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yes.

• 12:13Holly Frey?

  I did think a lot about just, you know, millions of pounds of onions going bad.

• 12:18Tracy V. Wilson?

  So many, that I can imagine how slimy it was.

• 12:23Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 12:24Tracy V. Wilson?

  Because when, when onions start to decay, they get that slimy texture.

• 12:29Holly Frey?

  Yeah. And then they become desiccated and fabulous.

• 12:33Tracy V. Wilson?

  [laughing]

• 12:34Holly Frey?

  Not in any real fabulosity, but just, I don't know.

• 12:37Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 12:38Holly Frey?

  There's something about a very dried out vegetable that I'd sort of love. It cracks me up a little. I don't know.

• 12:42Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 12:43Holly Frey?

  Probably me being a weirdo. Um, we discovered a very elderly pepper that had gone unused in our refrigerator recently, and it was like the crypt keeper of vegetables. And I was like,

• 12:56Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 12:57Holly Frey?

  I almost feel bad throwing it in our dehydrator to become compost, but there it goes.

• 13:02Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right. Yeah. I tried to shift from having, like, bottled lemon and lime juice in the fridge

• 13:12Holly Frey?

  Uh huh.

• 13:12Tracy V. Wilson?

  to keeping lemons and limes on hand and just

• 13:15Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 13:16Tracy V. Wilson?

  squeezing the juice out of them as needed. And I have not landed on the right number to have on hand.

• 13:23Holly Frey?

  I will never land on the right number.

• 13:24Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. But I have, I have discovered desiccated lime in the back of the fridge

• 13:30Holly Frey?

  Oh, yeah.

• 13:30Tracy V. Wilson?

  a couple of times.

• 13:31Holly Frey?

  Well, we always keep them on hand because I make a lot of cocktails. And the thing is, of course, if we have a party, I buy too many, but that's fine.

• 13:40Tracy V. Wilson?

  Sure.

• 13:41Holly Frey?

  But then there's that thing where I always keep a little too many on hand, because you never know when somebody might want to come over for a cocktail somewhat spontaneously, and I don't have time to run to the store all the time. And then I'm like, uh-oh, so I always have too many lemons and limes?

• 13:58Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 13:58Holly Frey?

  I keep just throwing the squeezed things out the back door off of the cantina. And I'm like, one day, a glorious lemon grove will grow here. It won't. Conditions aren't right. But in my head, that's my legacy.

• 14:11Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 14:12Holly Frey?

  [laughing]

• 14:14Tracy V. Wilson?

  That would be lovely. Lemons. I, I always think about when we were in Italy, you were not on this optional day trip that we took in Italy

• 14:25Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 14:25Tracy V. Wilson?

  to go to Pompeii. But on the way back, we were supposed to stop and have a limoncello tasting.

• 14:32Holly Frey?

  Mmm, delicious.

• 14:33Tracy V. Wilson?

  And I was so exhausted that all I wanted to do was go back to the train station and return to Rome, like, and go to bed. That was all I wanted in the whole world. And we got off the bus, and I was kind of trudging toward where we were going to be. We were taken into a building that looked kind of like a somewhat old timey ice cream parlor.

• 14:56Holly Frey?

  Great.

• 14:57Tracy V. Wilson?

  But then we continued walking out the back door of the ice cream parlor.

• 15:01Holly Frey?

  Sad.

• 15:02Tracy V. Wilson?

  No, no. We walked into a beautiful lemon grove

• 15:07Holly Frey?

  Mmm.

• 15:08Tracy V. Wilson?

  with fully fruiting lemons everywhere, also other citrus fruits.

• 15:13Holly Frey?

  Beautiful.

• 15:13Tracy V. Wilson?

  And we were ushered to a picnic table in this lemon grove to have our limoncello tasting. At the end of the limoncello tasting, they brought us lemon gelato, and the lemon gelato revived me. And I was like, never mind. Everything I said, it was absolutely worth it to come to this lemon grove and have limoncello and lemon gelato. Hopefully, no one will try to corner the market on lemons, drive up the price for everyone, but crash it instead.

• 15:44Holly Frey?

  Yum, limoncello. Mmm.

• 15:46Speaker 04

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• 16:19Speaker 05

  First thought is like, wow, how are we going to do all this?

• 16:22Tracy V. Wilson?

  Hey, everybody. It's Tracy from Stuff You Missed in History Class. That's Alan Goya, a planning engineer at AT&T. He's talking about Intuit Dome, home of the Los Angeles Clippers, where every seat, screen, phone, and transaction is connected with AT&T fiber and 5G, defining the fan's experience. And Alan's master plan made it all possible.

• 16:42Speaker 05

  It was going to rival anything that was already built. And that takes quite a bit of people and different teams to all be on the same page.

• 16:50Tracy V. Wilson?

  That includes field services manager Drexel Jones. His team made sure it all came together and held up on game day.

• 16:57Speaker 06

  Through what Alan's whole crew designed, we connected the event visitors to the world.

• 17:02Tracy V. Wilson?

  And after years of hard work and collaboration, it was opening night.

• 17:06Speaker 06

  To actually see the whole stadium light up and data's flowing is a beautiful thing.

• 17:10Speaker 05

  What the fans experience is incredible. It gave me a lot of pride.

• 17:14Tracy V. Wilson?

  AT&T, connecting fans to what they love.

• 17:16Speaker 07

  Connecting changes everything. AT&T.

• 17:19Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 18:02Tracy V. Wilson?

  Blue, you can DIY trusted ADT home security in a snap. Head to ADT.com/BLY to build your system today. And to hear more about home protection and other grown-up topics, check out new episodes of Grown Up Stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 18:22Holly Frey?

  We've all done it. Tumble down an internet rabbit hole trying to self-diagnose. And sometimes doing our own research can leave us more anxious than informed. Your feed is packed with wellness trends telling you to cold plunge, protein max, detox, track your sleep. But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong? That's exactly what Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association and iHeartMedia's Ruby Studio is here to find out. Each episode, Emmy-nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez, who's racked up billions of views across PBS, Discovery Channel, and YouTube, talks to doctors,

• 19:05Holly Frey?

  influencers, and real people trying these trends. Not to cancel them, not to hype them more, but to actually understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. Start asking better questions and listen to Help vs. Hype on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Deanna Flores, flag football star, trailblazer, broadcaster, and entrepreneur, knows what pressure feels like. She knows what it takes to step up in the moment, and she knows that even the biggest achievement is never the end of the story.

• 19:43Tracy V. Wilson?

  In the new podcast, Born to Become, with Deanna Flores, she's sitting down with people from every corner of culture, including sports, business, wellness, and entertainment, to find the whole person behind the public identity.

• 19:54Holly Frey?

  Whether she's talking to an athlete on the field, a founder heading into a pitch, or a musician before a show, the conversation starts with the official bio ends.

• 20:04Tracy V. Wilson?

  Every episode, Deanna shares her own experiences, questions, and even doubts. Her guests learn from her, she learns from them, and you might pick up something along the way. No lectures, no know-it-all host, just real people being real.

• 20:16Holly Frey?

  Come curious and leave with something you can use.

• 20:19Tracy V. Wilson?

  Listen to Born to Become with Deanna Flores, out now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Created in partnership with GEICO.

• 20:37Holly Frey?

  We talked about Dr. Bernard von Gudmundt this week.

• 20:40Tracy V. Wilson?

  We did.

• 20:41Holly Frey?

  I don't know if you were as instantly enthralled by the idea of him as I was when we were in Bavaria and specifically at Nuschfondstein, but boy, did I find him interesting.

• 20:53Tracy V. Wilson?

  I don't think I really grabbed any details about him while we were there.

• 20:57Holly Frey?

  Oh, I will say some of it may have, I may have gotten some of it when there is a beautiful, but not for Holly, a bridge that is just north of the entry to the castle.

• 21:10Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 21:11Holly Frey?

  And I, our amazing tour guide, Peter, said as we got there, hey, everybody has time to go walk across this bridge. You'll get the most amazing pictures. Don't do it if you have a fear of heights. And I said, I'm gonna sit down. Um, I'm not going up there.

• 21:26Tracy V. Wilson?

  I went to the bridge. Yeah. So I was not there for the conversation if that's when that happened, because I went to the bridge.

• 21:32Holly Frey?

  There was some, he mentioned it again later, I know, but I know we talked about it briefly then, and then we talked about other things. But yeah, I was not, I made the correct choice. Everyone went to the bridge but me. And after watching people's video, I was like, thank goodness I didn't go there.

• 21:47Tracy V. Wilson?

  When I was a lot younger, I struggled with heights a lot. And then when I went to college in the mountains, I was like, well, I'm gonna have to deal with this situation. And so I'm much better with heights now, but that bridge, when you step onto it, the, the planks have a, an amount of give that I did not find acceptable.

• 22:11Holly Frey?

  Yeah, nobody liked it.

• 22:13Tracy V. Wilson?

  So I did not go out that far onto the bridge. I definitely didn't go all the way across it. I went sort of far enough to get some pictures and then came back.

• 22:20Holly Frey?

  Oh, for some reason, I thought you had to keep going if you went.

• 22:24Tracy V. Wilson?

  No, you can just go back the other way.

• 22:26Holly Frey?

  Hmm.

• 22:28Tracy V. Wilson?

  But even then, like it.

• 22:30Holly Frey?

  Yeah, scary.

• 22:31Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 22:32Holly Frey?

  Scary. Not for me. One of the things that was interesting about that trip to me, because as you know, I'm a professional eavesdropper. But, and I wasn't even like butting in on anybody's private conversations, but like when you're just outside of Nuschfondstein, there's a little uphill walkway that leads to the front door, for lack of a better phrase, that like a lot of people would stop at and take pictures. And there are a lot of groups there with tour guides and a lot of small groups that have private tour guides. And I was kind of eavesdropping on all of those as we went up. And I, I, at one point too, we were waiting for everybody to be together to go in. And what was fascinating was the

• 23:14Holly Frey?

  amount of variety in the assessment of Ludwig II's mental state that those different tour guides had.

• 23:22Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh.

• 23:23Holly Frey?

  Like I heard one go, he was not crazy. He was just a little eccentric and nobody could handle it. And others go, he was clearly very crazy and every option in between, which shows you just how, you know, completely unsettled this particular matter is in the minds of locals and people who even teach this history to others. So I thought that was really interesting. I will say that walking through Nuschfondstein, which has been something I've wanted to do for a very long time, my takeaway was not that this is the work of somebody who is not in their right mind. Because it was like, this is how I decorate, just like with a lot more money.

• 24:02Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. If, if you don't recognize that name, this is the fairy tale castle that the interior rooms are decorated like Wagner opera sets.

• 24:17Holly Frey?

  I would say most Americans pronounce it Nuschfondstein. We discovered that was incorrect. Yeah. I mean, a lot of them are like, I want to recreate my favorite scene from a Wagner opera. I want to create a cool and amazing, you know, little grotto that mimics something in a Wagner opera or from a fairy tale or from, and like, I mean, I went to, you know, the lengths to add on to my house so I could have my own Star Wars canteen. Instead of me, this seems perfectly rational. Like, do what you love, live in your fandom. He was just a super fan. So it didn't strike me as the work of someone who must clearly be not in their right mind. I'm like, they just have flair. I understand. That's not

• 25:01Holly Frey?

  the only criteria that people use to decide that. And obviously, as we talked about in the episode, not everybody is in agreement. And a lot of people that knew him were like, no, he's just, he's just very fanciful. I don't know where you land on the assassination conspiracy theory or not. But I know where I land.

• 25:21Tracy V. Wilson?

  Where did you land?

• 25:23Holly Frey?

  He was assassinated.

• 25:24Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 25:25Holly Frey?

  Here's one of the things that really struck me as odd. Now, there are, I mean, I, as I was researching this, I was reading various things, some of which make it sound completely rational that yes, of course, he drowned. That makes all the sense on earth. And then there are other things where I'm like, this is weird. One of the things that struck me as very odd, and maybe I just don't understand, was the comment that was in the US paper, but written from a correspondent in Munich, that you could see footprints in the soil under the water. And I'm like,

• 26:04Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 26:04Holly Frey?

  I need more information about that, because that seems like a weird detail to include that is hard to verify.

• 26:11Tracy V. Wilson?

  I also have footprint questions.

• 26:15Holly Frey?

  I'm like, duh. I mean, this is a lake. It's not an ocean, but lakes have currents too, and water is moving and things don't stay intact.

• 26:25Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 26:26Holly Frey?

  And also, how did you see those? Did you have divers that could see that?

• 26:30Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. And I have questions about how easy to distinguish difference in their footprints would have been. Like, how different were their shoes? How different were the sizes of their feet? Like, I don't really know that.

• 26:44Holly Frey?

  That might be easy-ish, because I know Ludwig was much taller than Gudmundt.

• 26:49Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 26:50Holly Frey?

  So presumably, he probably had bigger feet. Like, he's always described as being a much bigger man than Gudmundt. And so that's one of the reasons people say, like, of course, he could have overpowered him really quickly if Gudmundt tried to interact with them.

• 27:02Tracy V. Wilson?

  Something that happens tragically often is a person in the water will start to struggle. And someone who does not know how to rescue a drowning person will try to rescue them. And the result is both people drowning.

• 27:21Holly Frey?

  Yes, 100%.

• 27:22Tracy V. Wilson?

  Um, so it's like, that idea of Ludwig going into the water to try to end his own life and his doctor attempting to rescue him and both of them drowning, on its surface seems like a plausible scenario. But also, many other questions raised by other details shared in the accounts of it.

• 27:49Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

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• 28:22Holly Frey?

  We've all done it. Tumble down an internet rabbit hole trying to self-diagnose. And sometimes doing our own research can leave us more anxious than informed. Your feed is packed with wellness trends telling you to cold plunge, protein max, detox, track your sleep. But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong? That's exactly what Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association and iHeartMedia's Ruby Studio is here to find out. Each episode, Emmy-nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez, who's racked up billions of views across PBS, Discovery Channel, and YouTube, talks to doctors, influencers, and real people trying these trends. Not to cancel them, not to hype them

• 29:06Holly Frey?

  more, but to actually understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. Start asking better questions and listen to Health vs. Hype on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 29:25Holly Frey?

  Deanna Flores, flag football star, trailblazer, broadcaster, and entrepreneur, knows what pressure feels like. She knows what it takes to step up in the moment, and she knows that even the biggest achievement is never the end of the story.

• 29:38Tracy V. Wilson?

  In the new podcast, Born to Become with Deanna Flores, she's sitting down with people from every corner of culture, including sports, business, wellness, and entertainment, to find the whole person behind the public identity.

• 29:50Holly Frey?

  Whether she's talking to an athlete on the field, a founder heading into a pitch, or a musician before a show, the conversation starts with the official bio ends.

• 29:59Tracy V. Wilson?

  Every episode, Deanna shares her own experiences, questions, and even doubts. Her guests learn from her, she learns from them, and you might pick up something along the way. No lectures, no know-it-all host, just real people being real.

• 30:11Holly Frey?

  Come curious and leave with something you can use.

• 30:14Tracy V. Wilson?

  Listen to Born to Become with Deanna Flores out now on the iHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Created in partnership with Geico.

• 30:28Speaker 04

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• 30:47Tracy V. Wilson?

  Destined to be a classic. The Gales of November, now in paperback.

• 30:57Tracy V. Wilson?

  Guess who's back in the house? The old gays return for season two of Silver Linings, their hit podcast from iHeart's Ruby Studio in partnership with ViiV Healthcare. Just wait until you hear what hosts Robert McMillan and Jessa have in store this time around. They strut back down memory lane navigating life, love, loss, and everything that shaped them along the way. And as usual, someone just might break into song. From leather bars to bathhouses, dance floors to drag brunch, nothing stays off limits. These are the kinds of insights that can only come from experience. So, listen to your elders, honey, and discover the silver linings you can take with you. All sass, zero filter, and decades of perspective from four friends proving that queer joy

• 31:42Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 32:02Holly Frey?

  I was fascinated to discover that there is, it is called a secret society. People know it exists. I think the, whether or not you are a member is a secret, but they do things publicly, but they are hooded always. There is a secret society that truly believes in the assassination thing and is always trying to like find ways to prove it. And one of the things that they do, we've mentioned at the end of the episode, that on the date of Ludwig's death, there are often memorials to him, there are ceremonies about him, you know, there's, he's really become very revered to a lot of people historically.

• 32:41Holly Frey?

  But one of the things that they do is they take a boat out to the, it's still very shallow, but there are a bunch of people and they go out to the spot where the bodies were found or where he was believed to have died based on, I guess, this footprint information. And there is, somebody actually put a cross there some years ago, but it's just fascinating to me that there's like a whole ritual involved in going out there and like honoring his memory every year. And yeah, there are people very invested, is my point in all of this, in what the truth may have actually been. And I, you know, I'm so normally not into conspiracy theories at all, but this one just seems so shady and dicey that I'm like.

• 33:23Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, there are layers, layers of shady dice.

• 33:27Holly Frey?

  It makes me want to go back again.

• 33:29Tracy V. Wilson?

  What I don't want to do is walk down the hill from the castle ever again.

• 33:34Holly Frey?

  Oh, my goodness gracious me. That was rough. That was rough.

• 33:38Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 33:39Holly Frey?

  You can take a little.

• 33:41Tracy V. Wilson?

  There's a bus.

• 33:42Holly Frey?

  Shuttle bus that'll take you up the hill. You have to like disembark from any big buses at this parking lot. There's a shuttle bus that will take you up to the hill. You have to wait a lot because it only holds so many people and a lot of people visit the site because it's again, making tons of money. Or you can walk it, but they warned us like it's uphill. It's like a 20, 25 minute walk. Most people did not do it, though some in our group did. They are, my hat's off to all of you who did it. You can also take a little horse drawn carriage up there, but it was so cavalierly like, oh, you could just walk down. And we're like, yeah, we could just walk down.

• 34:15Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 34:15Holly Frey?

  That walk hurt so bad.

• 34:17Tracy V. Wilson?

  It hurt my feet a lot.

• 34:19Holly Frey?

  Hurt my feet, hurt my back.

• 34:20Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 34:21Holly Frey?

  Brian's hips did not enjoy it.

• 34:23Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 34:24Holly Frey?

  The cant of the angle was way steeper than I thought it would be.

• 34:28Tracy V. Wilson?

  It's very steep and it's on pavement the whole way. So like the continual strike of my foot onto the pavement on like my forefoot over and over.

• 34:45Tracy V. Wilson?

  As we got toward the bottom, I really thought I might have injured.

• 34:49Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 34:49Tracy V. Wilson?

  Myself. I was not injured, fortunately, but I was, if I had it to do all over again, we would have taken the bus down.

• 34:58Holly Frey?

  Yeah, same, I think, I think. Gosh, what a beautiful, beautiful place, though. The views just literally take your breath away, like the gasping that I did throughout that day. Spectacular. What a lovely place.

• 35:15Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 35:15Holly Frey?

  And I honestly, man, I love seeing all of that gorgeous design, both interior and exterior of that castle.

• 35:24Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 35:25Holly Frey?

  So spectacularly beautiful. I was bummed, I understand, but I was bummed because you can't take pictures inside.

• 35:33Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 35:34Holly Frey?

  But I of course bought the books.

• 35:35Tracy V. Wilson?

  So did Patrick.

• 35:37Holly Frey?

  Of course I'm gonna.

• 35:38Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 35:38Holly Frey?

  But yeah, I just, there's like that mosaic in the floor that I was obsessed with in that one room that has like animals all around it. Obsessed, obsessed, obsessed. It's so beautiful. And again, you know, if I had all that money, I've often said, I'm going to buy every house in our neighborhood, put a different Star Wars bar in each one. So like, I'm never going to judge his Wagner love.

• 36:00Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 36:01Holly Frey?

  Because life should be lived with joy. And he, his Ludwig's writing about that castle was how excited he was to build it and live in it.

• 36:09Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 36:09Holly Frey?

  He did not get to live there very long, obviously. It was not even completed when he died and those rooms are left uncompleted to this day as part of like maintaining it. But to me, it just reads as like, listen, I'm a fanboy. And I will say, we didn't talk about it in the episode, but the other thing that is very much in the conspiracy theory side of the scales for me, is that Ludwig was not, not doing his work.

• 36:40Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 36:40Holly Frey?

  As the monarch.

• 36:42Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 36:43Holly Frey?

  He didn't like to talk to people, but he and like the people that worked immediately with him had worked out ways that like, he was still getting things done. He was getting stuff telegraphed to him. He was making decisions. He was fulfilling all of his duties. They weren't always all popular, but I don't know any leader in such a position where that's the case. And he, like he wasn't shirking his responsibility at all. So like the idea that he couldn't be trusted to do these things really does start to smack of like, well, maybe not the way you want. And maybe you're just trying to, you know, parlay this convenient eccentricity into seizing power for yourself. That's the other thing that I'm like, yeah.

• 37:26Holly Frey?

  Anyway, Ludwig the second, I'm sorry about how all of this went down.

• 37:31Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 37:32Holly Frey?

  There was also a thing I put in the episode and then cut for time about Empress Sissy. She sent him this bouquet of flowers and it was placed on his chest in his coffin. And then she wrote him a poem about the placement of those and like how she got to privately say goodbye to him before it was all closed. And, and it's very sweet and quite moving, but I was like, I love all of this, but we don't have time.

• 37:58Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 38:00Holly Frey?

  It's a different story about her at that point and not about Gooden, certainly. So, yeah, Dr. Gooden, I don't know if you sold your soul or not. I also don't understand your eyeball science, but that's okay.

• 38:14Tracy V. Wilson?

  No, me neither.

• 38:19Holly Frey?

  If this is your weekend coming up, I hope that no one accuses you of being unfit to live your life because maybe you're eccentric and wonderful. And I say, fly your flag, baby. We need more, more joy, more creativity, more everything that brings light to the world all the time. And I support you in whatever does that for you. I also hope if you have to work, if this isn't like a weekend where you get time to maybe fly your flag, that you can still embrace the world in ways that give you joy, that give you meaning, that make you feel fulfilled, and that everybody is super kind to one another, and that we all get enough rest and enough hydration. I'm really bad at that. I'm always working on it.

• 39:03Holly Frey?

  And enough to go to bed at night, if that is your schedule, and sleep peacefully. We will be right back here on Monday with a brand new episode. We will, of course, as always, also be back tomorrow with a classic.

• 39:21Tracy V. Wilson?

  Stuff You Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

• 39:36Holly Frey?

  A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 40:07Tracy V. Wilson?

  Whether you're calling the wise women in your life, video calling your girlfriends across the country, or checking in on someone who always knows how to make you smile, staying connected matters. Those small conversations, shared laughs, and quick hellos are what keep relationships strong even when life gets busy. Some of the most life-giving conversations start with just a phone call. That's why AT&T guarantees the network you can rely on, so you can focus on the moments and people that matter most. That's the AT&T guarantee. AT&T, connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.com/guarantee for details. Deanna Flores is a flag football star, a trailblazer, an entrepreneur, and now host of a new podcast.

• 40:48Holly Frey?

  In Born to Become with Deanna Flores, she's sitting down with people from every corner of culture to find the whole person behind the public identity.

• 40:56Tracy V. Wilson?

  Every episode, you'll get to know Deanna, her guests, and even yourself a little better. No lectures, no no at all host, just real people being real.

• 41:04Holly Frey?

  Listen to Born to Become with Deanna Flores, out now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Created in partnership with Geico.

• 41:15Holly Frey?

  Live Right, publishers of John U. Bacon's New York Times bestseller, The Gales of November, a chronicle of the S.S. Edmund Fitzgerald's 1975 shipwreck.

• 41:26Tracy V. Wilson?

  Never has it been told better than by Mr. Bacon in this colorful book, writes John J. Miller of the Wall Street Journal, while author Hampton Sykes proclaims that it's destined to be a classic. The Gales of November, now in paperback.

• 41:43Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 42:13Speaker 00

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