Pod Insights Stuff You Missed in History Class Thanksgiving vs. Franksgiving About this episode This episode covers President Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s decision to move the date of Thanksgiving with the hope of helping businesses that were trying to recover from the Great Depression – and the controversy that caused.
Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Speaker 00 This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.
0:04 Tracy V. Wilson? Whether you're calling the wise women in your life, video calling your girlfriends across the country, or checking in on someone who always knows how to make you smile, staying connected matters. Those small conversations, shared laughs and quick hellos, are what keep relationships strong even when life gets busy. Some of the most life-giving conversations start with just a phone call. That's why AT&T guarantees the network you can rely on, so you can focus on the moments and people that matter most. That's the AT&T Guarantee. AT&T: Connecting Changes Everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.com/guarantee for details. Deanna Flores is a flag football star, a trailblazer, an entrepreneur, and now host of a new podcast. In Born to Become with Deanna Flores,
0:48 Tracy V. Wilson? she's sitting down with people from every corner of culture to find the whole person behind the public identity. Every episode, you'll get to know Deanna, her guests, and even yourself a little better. No lectures, no know-it-all hosts, just real people being real. Listen to Born to Become with Deanna Flores, out now on the iHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Created in partnership with Geico. We've all tumbled down an internet rabbit hole trying to self-diagnose, and it leaves us more anxious than informed. Our feeds are full of wellness trends, but how do we know what's real, what's exaggerated, and what's just wrong? Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association breaks it all down. Emmy-nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez talks to doctors, influencers, and real people trying these trends,
1:32 Tracy V. Wilson? not to cancel them, but to understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. So listen to Health vs. Hype wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeart Radio.
1:54 Tracy V. Wilson? Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. Wilson. And I'm Holly Frey. Here in the United States, the Thanksgiving holiday is observed on the 4th Thursday in November every year. That was not always the case, though. Today, we're going to talk about President Franklin Delano Roosevelt's decision to move Thanksgiving earlier with the hope of helping businesses that were trying to recover from the Great Depression. We are also going to talk about the intense controversy that move caused. In keeping with the theme of the episode, we're also putting this episode out the week before Thanksgiving.
2:33 Tracy V. Wilson? It is earlier, just like Roosevelt's Thanksgiving was earlier. There was some partisan bickering about this decision, and you can make some pretty obvious comparisons to various partisan bickering over holidays and how they have been observed in more recent years. I really did not feel the need to belabor that point in this episode, so just feel free to use your own imagination if you want to spend more time on that. So instead, we're going to start by talking about how Thanksgiving became a US holiday and how long it took for it to be standardized as the 4th Thursday in November. Of course,
3:17 Tracy V. Wilson? cultures and peoples all around the world have some kind of observance to express gratitude or thanks, or some kind of harvest festival involving a traditional meal. American Thanksgiving, with the traditional menu of foods like turkey and stuffing and cranberry sauce and sweet potatoes or yams, has elements of both of those things. There are a few countries besides the US that observe a similar Thanksgiving holiday, including Canada. And there are also some countries that have an official Thanksgiving holiday that is not as focused on this kind of traditional meal, including Liberia. Of course, indigenous peoples all over North America have also observed harvest festivals for thousands of years.
4:00 Tracy V. Wilson? Those festivals are reflections of where people have lived and which foods they have relied on. One example is Cranberry Day, observed by the Wampanoag tribe of Gahetahquena. Today Cranberry Day takes place on the second Tuesday of October, but historically, this could take place over the course of several days, maybe even a week, as people came together for the cranberry harvest. There's some debate about which European celebration of Thanksgiving in North America should be recognized as the first one. It was common for ship captains to give thanks at the end of a voyage, but these were often just simple prayers and not big elaborate feasts.
4:44 Tracy V. Wilson? The first Europeans in North America to combine giving thanks with a feast may have been Francisco Vasquez de Coronado's force when they held a feast of prayer and Thanksgiving in Palo Duro Canyon in what's now Texas in 1541. The first feast of thanks among English speakers in North America may have been in Popem Colony in what's now Maine in 1607. There were lots of other feasts and observances for giving thanks in North America in the 16th and 17th centuries. But the one that most people think of as the first Thanksgiving took place in 1621 in Plymouth, Massachusetts. There were at least 52 English people there, known as the Pilgrims, who had arrived aboard
5:29 Tracy V. Wilson? the Mayflower, and at least 90 Wampanoag. This celebration lasted for three days at the end of the colonists' first harvest. They did not refer to it as Thanksgiving, and their menu was very, very different from the so-called traditional Thanksgiving meal today in the United States. But in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, a highly romanticized version of this celebration became part of the Thanksgiving holiday lore, including becoming part of children's school lessons to reinforce ideas like community and freedom and good citizenship.
6:10 Tracy V. Wilson? This attempt at a feel-good Thanksgiving story glosses over centuries of warfare, enslavement, and genocide in North America. And it also wasn't really necessary to manufacture a connection between the Thanksgiving holiday and ideals like freedom and good citizenship. Those connections go all the way back to the first National Thanksgiving proclamation, which came from the Continental Congress on November 1, 1777. It began, "For as much as it is the indispensable duty of all men to adore the superintending providence of Almighty God, to acknowledge with gratitude their obligation to Him for benefits received,
6:52 Tracy V. Wilson? and to implore such farther blessings as they stand in need of; and it having pleased Him in His abundant mercy, not only to continue to us the innumerable bounties of His common providence, but also to smile upon us in the prosecution of a just and necessary war for the defense and establishment of our unalienable rights and liberties, particularly in that He hath been pleased in so great a measure to prosper the means used for the support of our troops, and to crown our arms with most signal success. It is therefore recommended to the legislative or executive powers of these United States to set apart Thursday, the 18th day of December next, for solemn Thanksgiving and praise."
7:37 Tracy V. Wilson? So this obviously was during the Revolutionary War, and that proclamation was issued not long after the British defeat at the Battles of Saratoga. So it was meant to celebrate the American victory and thank God for God's, basically, endorsement of the colonial effort. The Continental Congress issued Thanksgiving proclamations for the next few years after that, setting dates in December, and they continued to reference the war when they issued these proclamations. The 1780 proclamation also thanked God for, quote, "rescuing the person of our Commander-in-Chief and the Army from imminent dangers at the moment when
8:18 Tracy V. Wilson? treason was ripened for execution," that treason being Benedict Arnold conspiring to give West Point to the British. In 1781, after the Articles of Confederation were ratified as the nation's first constitution, the Continental Congress became known as the Congress of the Confederation. On October 26th, just a few days after the British were defeated at the Battle of Yorktown, the Congress of the Confederation proclaimed December 13th as a Day of Thanksgiving and Prayer. In 1782, this national day of Thanksgiving was observed on November 28th. In 1783, it was the second Thursday in December.
9:00 Tracy V. Wilson? And in 1784, it was Tuesday, October 19th. That year's proclamation acknowledged the signing of the Treaty of Paris, which had formally ended the Revolutionary War the year before, and the exchange of ratified versions of the treaty that had taken place in France on May 12th, 1784. With the Revolutionary War over, and the peace treaty signed and ratified, there were no national Thanksgiving proclamations between 1785 and 1788. But by 1789, the federal government had found a new reason to be thankful. This is the briefest of brief overviews, and we are not going to get into all of the various problems and debates and plans and other specifics.
9:45 Tracy V. Wilson? But the Articles of Confederation had not worked out as a basis for the US government long-term. At first, there were proposals to amend them, but after intense debate, a new constitution was drafted instead, and this process involved even more intense debate. Very broadly speaking, federalists wanted the Constitution to outline a strong central government, and anti-federalists wanted much more limited federal authority with more autonomy and localized power for the states. These two things were the opposite, and so it was impossible to create one document
10:29 Tracy V. Wilson? that would equally satisfy both sides. One part of the effort to get the Constitution ratified involved the drafting of 12 amendments to preserve freedoms that it didn't specifically protect.
10:42 Tracy V. Wilson? 10 of these 12 amendments became known as the Bill of Rights. One of the others, which was never ratified, was about the number of representatives. The other stated that, quote, "No law varying the compensation for the services of the senators and representatives shall take effect until an election of representatives shall have intervened." And it eventually became part of the Constitution as the 27th amendment. After still more intense debate, Congress agreed on these 12 amendments at the end of its first session on September 25, 1789. Then Representative Elias Boudinot of New Jersey introduced a resolution, quote, "That
11:24 Tracy V. Wilson? a joint committee of both houses be directed to wait upon the President of the United States to request that he would recommend to the people of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity to peaceably establish a constitution of government for their safety and happiness." There was debate over this as well. Among other things, Thomas Tudor Tucker argued that this was none of their business. Quote, "Why should the President direct the people to do what perhaps they have no mind to do?
12:07 Tracy V. Wilson? They may not be inclined to return thanks for a Constitution until they have experienced that it promotes their safety and happiness. We do not yet know, but they may have reason to be dissatisfied with the effects it has already produced. But whether this be so or not, it is a business with which Congress have nothing to do. It is a religious matter, and as such is prescribed to us. If a day of thanksgiving must take place, let it be done by the authority of the several states." Eventually, though, both the House and the Senate agreed on this resolution. A joint committee, which included Boudinot, presented it to President George Washington on September 28.
12:46 Tracy V. Wilson? On October 3, Washington issued a proclamation naming Thursday, November 26, 1789, as a, quote, "day of public thanksgiving." This was the first presidential Thanksgiving proclamation. It began, quote, "Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor. And whereas both houses of Congress, had by their joint committee, requested me to recommend to the people of the United States a day of public Thanksgiving and prayer to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many signal favors of Almighty
13:27 Tracy V. Wilson? God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness. Now, therefore, I do recommend and assign, Thursday, the 26th day of November next, to be devoted by the people of these states to the service of that great and glorious being, who is the beneficent author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be." We'll have more after a sponsor break.
13:56 Speaker 02 First thought is like, wow, how are we going to do all this?
13:59 Tracy V. Wilson? Hey, everybody. It's Tracy from Stuff You Missed in History Class. That's Alan Goya, a planning engineer at AT&T. He's talking about Intuit Dome, home of the Los Angeles Clippers, where every seat, screen, phone, and transaction is connected with AT&T fiber and 5G, defining the fan's experience. And Alan's master plan made it all possible.
14:20 Speaker 02 It was going to rival anything that was already built. And that takes quite a bit of people and different teams to all be on the same page.
14:27 Tracy V. Wilson? That includes field services manager Drexel Jones. His team made sure it all came together and held up on game day.
14:34 Speaker 03 Through what Alan's whole crew designed, we connected the event visitors to the world.
14:40 Tracy V. Wilson? And after years of hard work and collaboration, it was opening night.
14:43 Speaker 03 To actually see the whole stadium light up and data is flowing is a beautiful thing.
14:47 Speaker 02 With the fans' experience, it's incredible. It gave me a lot of pride.
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15:36 Tracy V. Wilson? Some life decisions are hard, but thanks to ADT Blue, you can DIY trusted ADT home security in a snap. Head to ADT.com/BLU to build your system today. And to hear more about home protection and other grown-up topics, check out new episodes of Grown-Up Stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
16:03 Tracy V. Wilson? We've all done it, tumble down an internet rabbit hole trying to self-diagnose. And sometimes doing our own research can leave us more anxious than informed. Your feed is packed with wellness trends telling you to cold plunge, protein max, detox, track your sleep. But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong? That's exactly what Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association and iHeartMedia's Ruby Studio is here to find out. Each episode, Emmy-nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez, who's racked up billions of views across PBS, Discovery Channel, and YouTube, talks to doctors, influencers, and real people trying these trends.
16:46 Tracy V. Wilson? Not to cancel them, not to hype them more, but to actually understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. Start asking better questions and listen to Health vs. Hype on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
17:12 Tracy V. Wilson? After issuing his Thanksgiving proclamation in 1789, President George Washington included it in a circular to the governors of the states, along with a message, quote, "I do myself the honor to enclose to your excellency a proclamation for a general Thanksgiving, which I must request the favor of you to have published and made known in your state in the way and manner most agreeable to yourself." While Thomas Tudor Tucker had expressed concerns that the president might be directing people to do something they were not inclined to do, generally, the whole idea of a national day of Thanksgiving was pretty well received. In addition to giving thanks, churches and
17:55 Tracy V. Wilson? charities used it as an opportunity to collect money and goods for the needy. But Thanksgiving didn't become an annual holiday nationally for quite a while. Washington's next Thanksgiving proclamation wasn't until 1795, after the Whiskey Rebellion. We have an episode on the Whiskey Rebellion from back in 2015. In this proclamation, Washington described the United States as having enjoyed "a great deal of internal tranquility," quote, "the recent confirmation of that tranquility by the suppression of an insurrection which so wantonly threatened it." Yeah, it really comes across as, we know how life is here is so tranquil because
18:36 Tracy V. Wilson? this rebellion was an outlier that we have now suppressed. Later Thanksgiving proclamations continued to be connected to some kind of war or other unrest. John Adams issued similar proclamations, although they were for days of fasting and humiliation rather than Thanksgiving. Those were to take place on May 29, 1798 and April 25, 1799. That was during the French Revolutionary Wars. The United States remained neutral during most of these wars, but also saw them as a serious threat. In these proclamations, Adams described the United States as being
19:17 Tracy V. Wilson? placed in a, quote, "hazardous and afflictive situation by the unfriendly disposition, conduct, and demands of a foreign power," and, quote, "held in jeopardy by the hostile designs and insidious acts of a foreign nation." During the War of 1812, Congress submitted a joint resolution to President James Madison to request a day of Thanksgiving. He made his proclamation in November of 1814 with Thanksgiving to occur the following January 12th. After the war ended, he proclaimed March 4th, 1815, as a day, "which the people of every religious denomination may in their solemn assembles unite their
19:58 Tracy V. Wilson? hearts and their voices in a free will offering to their heavenly benefactor of their homage of Thanksgiving and of their songs of praise." Generally, these proclamations all referenced some kind of God or supreme being, although without naming a specific religion or denomination, there was kind of a general assumption that everyone had a religion and everyone believed in God and that having the nation give thanks to that God was an okay thing to do. But that connection to religion and the holiday's Puritan roots were enough to lead Thomas Jefferson not to issue any Thanksgiving proclamations when he was president.
20:43 Tracy V. Wilson? That was in between John Adams and James Madison. He had declared a day of Thanksgiving while serving as the governor of Virginia, though. During and after all this, various states had their own Thanksgiving holidays and observances. One person who advocated for Thanksgiving to become an annual federal holiday was Sarah Josepha Hale. Our episode on her ran as a classic on November 18th, 2023, and talks more about that. Hale started advocating for a national holiday to be held on the last Thursday in November in 1837. She saw this as something that might hold the nation together as states became increasingly divided over the issue of slavery.
21:26 Tracy V. Wilson? That, of course, did not work. And in 1862, during the Civil War, US President Abraham Lincoln and Confederate President Jefferson Davis each issued Thanksgiving proclamations. Lincoln issued his in April, recommending that people give thanks, quote, "at their next weekly assemblages in their accustomed places of public worship."
21:50 Tracy V. Wilson? Davis issued his after the Confederate Army won the Second Battle of Bull Run, also called the Battle of Second Manassas on September 4th, with the observance of that day of Thanksgiving on September 18th. Lincoln made two Thanksgiving proclamations in 1863. One on July 15th, setting the day as August 6th, and the other on October 3rd, the anniversary of George Washington's first Thanksgiving proclamation, setting the date as the last Thursday in November. He designated Thanksgiving as the last Thursday in November in 1864 as well. Lincoln was, of course, assassinated in 1865.
22:33 Tracy V. Wilson? And that year, his successor, Andrew Johnson, set the date as the first Thursday of December. For the next few years after that, Thanksgiving took place on the last Thursday in November, although in 1869, President Ulysses S. Grant set the date as November 18th, which was the third Thursday. So at this point, there was only a national day of Thanksgiving if the president issued a proclamation about it. And that happened on whatever day the president chose. It wasn't something that was covered under any federal law. That changed when Grant signed the nation's first law regarding federal holidays in 1870.
23:15 Tracy V. Wilson? This law applied to Washington DC and to federal workers, but it was written to align with what was already in place in a lot of the states. This law designated New Year's Day, Christmas Day, and Independence Day as holidays, along with, quote, "any day appointed or recommended by the President of the United States as a day of public fasting or Thanksgiving." So Thanksgiving became a federal holiday, but the exact day that Thanksgiving would be on was still up to the president. Pretty soon, though, the last Thursday in November became the traditional day. After the end of World War I, there was some back and forth about whether Armistice Day,
23:58 Tracy V. Wilson? observed on November 11th, should be combined with Thanksgiving. But there were concerns that messing with Thanksgiving might upset people who liked that tradition. Today, in the US, November 11th is, of course, Veterans Day. Those concerns turned out to be well founded, which finally brings us to Franklin Delano Roosevelt and his decision to move the date of Thanksgiving in 1939. The Great Depression had started 10 years earlier. This massive economic downturn affected people around the world, but its effects varied from place to place depending on each nation's economy. In general, though, industrialized nations saw huge declines
24:42 Tracy V. Wilson? in industrial production and correspondingly huge increases in unemployment. Herbert Hoover was the US president when the Great Depression started, and in a lot of ways, he became the scapegoat for it. The president just does not have sole control over the economy. In 1932, Roosevelt ran against him and won the presidential election by a landslide. Roosevelt's first Thanksgiving in office was in 1933. And that year, the last Thursday in November was November 30, which was also the last day of November. At the time, there was more of a taboo around the idea
25:23 Tracy V. Wilson? of starting Christmas retail before Thanksgiving was over than there is today. Today, a lot of people complain about it, but a lot of businesses also do it. So some people were worried that this later-than-usual Thanksgiving would also mean a later-than-usual start to Christmas shopping and that this would hurt businesses that were already struggling. But not everyone agreed. People sent Roosevelt letters for and against the idea of observing Thanksgiving earlier for the sake of businesses. For example, the Downtown Association of Los Angeles sent a letter on October 3, 1933, asking for Thanksgiving to be observed on the fourth Thursday in November,
26:05 Tracy V. Wilson? rather than the last, to help businesses and increase employment and purchasing power. But clothing manufacturer Richmond Brothers sent a telegram on October 13 that argued the opposite, saying that moving Thanksgiving would, quote, "shorten the season and curtain the fall business of clothes and all seasonable goods for the benefit of novelty and small gift items." Roosevelt ultimately decided that trying to move the date of Thanksgiving away from the last Thursday in November would probably cause confusion. So he didn't do it. But then in 1939, Thanksgiving again fell on the last Thursday in November, November
26:47 Tracy V. Wilson? 30th, and FDR was still in office. This time, he made the opposite decision to what he had done in 1933. On August 14, 1939, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt visited his boyhood summer cottage on Campobello Island in New Brunswick, Canada. At 1:35 that afternoon, he gave a press conference. He said that over the previous six years, he'd heard a lot of complaints about the long stretch of time between the Labor Day holiday and Thanksgiving, and the short window between Thanksgiving and Christmas. He noted that Thanksgiving had fallen on different days at earlier points in history, and he said
27:30 Tracy V. Wilson? there was nothing sacred about the last Thursday in November. So he would be designating November 23, not the 30th, as a day for general Thanksgiving that year. The response was immediate. And with the exception of some retailers who were excited about the extra week of Christmas shopping, most of that response was negative. People's calendars had November 30 marked as Thanksgiving, and calendar manufacturers pointed out that 1940 calendars were already printed. So if the president did the same thing again, all of those calendars would already be wrong. A lot of big football games
28:11 Tracy V. Wilson? were scheduled for Thanksgiving Day, or the Saturday after Thanksgiving, and now all of those games were on the wrong day. One exception was the big game between the University of California and Stanford, which was supposed to be November 25, the Saturday before Thanksgiving. But this change meant that it was now the Saturday after. Schedules for these games were often set years in advance. Various entities that had some kind of connection to Thanksgiving or Thanksgiving preparations all had opinions. James Fraser was chairman of the Board of Selectmen of Plymouth, Massachusetts, home of the so-called First Thanksgiving, and he said he was going to be taking the matter
28:55 Tracy V. Wilson? before the board, quote, "Because we in Plymouth consider the day sacred." Plymouth celebrated Thanksgiving on November 30th that year to, quote, "Save the day from exploitation and desecration." The president of the National Poultry Butter and Egg Association wrote to the president to say, quote, "Your contemplated change will be injurious to many producers and disrupt marketing plans of processors and distributors." The former president of the Rhode Island Turkey Growers Association said the date change, quote, "Might throw Thanksgiving into warm weather and adversely affect the final fattening and preparation of birds for market."
29:38 Tracy V. Wilson? Other turkey producers disagreed with this, though, saying that their fattening process started in September, so since they knew about the change in August, it would be a non-issue. Thousands of people wrote to the president, and some of their letters really demonstrate that wild political comparisons are really not a new phenomenon. Robert Benson and Clarabelle Voight of Groton, South Dakota, wrote on letterhead from an insurance and real estate company and described themselves as, quote, "Representatives of the Northwest." In their August 17th letter to the president, they said in part, quote, "This country is not entirely money-minded. We need a certain amount of idealism and sentiment to keep up the morale of our people,
30:21 Tracy V. Wilson? and you would even take that from us. After all, we want to make this country better for our posterity, and you must remember we are not running a Russia or a communistic government. Between your ideas of running for a third term and your changing dates of century-old holidays, we believe you have practically lost your popularity and the goodwill of the people of the Northwest." I tried to find more information about exactly who Robert Benson and Clearable Clearbell were, whether they were just the self-proclaimed representatives of the Northwest, or whether they had some kind of public role. I failed to find anything else about them besides this letter. Meanwhile, to continue the wild political comparisons, an Associated
31:06 Tracy V. Wilson? Press report quoted Alf Landon, who had lost to Roosevelt in the 1936 presidential election, quoted Landon as saying, quote, "The president's sudden attempt to change Thanksgiving Day is another illustration of the confusion which his impulsiveness has caused so frequently during his administration. It is upsetting to many businesses and college programs. If the change has any merit at all, more time should have been taken working it out so as to assure wholehearted cooperation instead of springing it on an unprepared country with the omnipotence of Hitler."
31:49 Tracy V. Wilson? On top of all those letters to the president, there was so much public discussion around this. As just a couple of examples, on August 19, 1939, the entirety of Page 4 of the Belleville News Democrat of Belleville, Illinois was about what day Thanksgiving would be on. The Knoxville News Sentinel ran half a page of reader letters on August 27 and said its readers were against this change 2 to 1. Newspapers continued to carry heated Thanksgiving coverage for weeks, although it started to fall off after Germany invaded Poland on September 1. Within a day of FDR's press conference, an unnamed State Department official, apparently
32:33 Tracy V. Wilson? trying to reassure people, had told the Associated Press that the presidential proclamation affected only the District of Columbia and US territories. It did not affect the states.
32:46 Tracy V. Wilson? Traditionally, state governors had issued their own Thanksgiving proclamations, and some states had their own laws around the holiday. The president's proclamation had not invalidated any of that in any previous years, and it also would not in 1939. So in 1939, some states observed Thanksgiving on November 23rd, following the lead of the federal government, and some observed it on November 30th, the way they'd been doing it before. Some people called November 30th "traditional Thanksgiving" and November 23rd "early Thanksgiving." But some of the biggest critics called it "franksgiving."
33:26 Tracy V. Wilson? A lot of sources framed the state-by-state breakdown of who did Thanksgiving when as partisan, and there were definitely some trends along these lines, but things were not anywhere near unanimous. According to a Gallup poll that was released on August 25th, only 20% of respondents had no opinion on the date change. Roosevelt was a Democrat, and according to the poll, Democrats supported the move by a very slim margin of 52 to 48, while Republicans opposed it 79 to 21. When it came to which day governors announced for their own state's observations, things
34:11 Tracy V. Wilson? also did not fall strictly along party lines. In 1939, 12 states that had Republican governors observed the old Thanksgiving date, and six of them observed the new date. One state did both. Meanwhile, 11 states with Democratic governors observed the old date and 16 the new date, with two of them doing both. The three states that decided to have two Thanksgivings were Colorado, Mississippi, and Texas. I can get behind the two Thanksgiving plan. Having two different Thanksgivings, depending on the state, caused a lot of additional problems, like what if you lived in Iowa, where Thanksgiving was on November 30th, but
34:55 Tracy V. Wilson? the grandparents you were going to visit lived in Illinois, where it was on November 23rd? This was a particular issue in areas that were close to state lines, where children might live in one state and go to school in the other, or people might work in a different state from where they lived. On October 31, 1939, after months of criticism, Franklin Delano Roosevelt issued his Thanksgiving proclamation with that earlier date as planned. It did not say anything about why he had chosen to celebrate Thanksgiving on an earlier day, but it did reference what the nation had been going through in the years leading up to that. Quote, "Our nation has gone steadily forward in the
35:36 Tracy V. Wilson? application of democratic processes to economic and social problems. We have faced the specters of business depression, of unemployment, and of widespread agricultural distress, and our positive efforts to alleviate these conditions have met with heartening results. We have also been permitted to see the fruition of measures which we have undertaken in the realms of health, social welfare, and the conservation of resources. As a nation, we are deeply grateful that in a world of turmoil, we are at peace with all countries, and we especially rejoice in the strengthened bonds of our friendship with the other peoples of the Western Hemisphere."
36:18 Tracy V. Wilson? In 1940, Roosevelt again proclaimed an earlier date for Thanksgiving, this time November 21. That year, 32 states observed Thanksgiving on the 21st while 16 observed it on the 28th. A Warner Brothers Mary Melodies cartoon came out that year that showed a calendar with Thanksgiving marked as November 21 for Democrats and November 28 for Republicans. In 1941, Roosevelt once again set Thanksgiving as the 3rd Thursday in November. That made it on the 20th, which seems very early to me. But by that point, Congress was also working on taking this decision out of the president's hands. After some debate on
37:02 Tracy V. Wilson? October 6, 1941, the House passed a joint resolution which read, quote, "Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America and Congress assembled, that the last Thursday in November in each year after the year 1941 be known as Thanksgiving Day and is hereby made a ...legal public holiday to all intents and purposes and in the same manner as the first day of January, the 22nd day of February, the 30th day of May, the 4th day of July, the 1st Monday of September, the 11th day of November, and Christmas Day are now made by law, public holidays.
37:43 Tracy V. Wilson? The Senate passed this resolution with an amendment specifying that the 4th Thursday in November would be Thanksgiving Day rather than the last one. Roosevelt signed this into law on December 26, 1941. By that point, it didn't look like the earlier Thanksgiving celebration had really done much to spur retail sales. This controversy did not immediately fade from public consciousness, though. For example, the 1942 movie Holiday Inn, starring Bing Crosby and Fred Astaire, included an animated sequence in which a turkey runs back and forth on a calendar, trying to keep up with which date is marked as Thanksgiving Day, either the 20th or the 27th.
38:27 Tracy V. Wilson? The turkey finally gives up. Holiday Inn is also the movie that premiered the Irving Berlin song, "White Christmas." Roosevelt's 1942 Thanksgiving proclamation referenced the newly passed federal law. It started, quote, "It is a good thing to give thanks unto the Lord," and included the entirety of the 23rd Psalm, and it ended, quote, "Now, therefore, I, Franklin D. Roosevelt, President of the United States of America, do hereby invite the attention of the people to the joint resolution of Congress, approved December 26, 1941, which designates the 4th Thursday in November of each year as Thanksgiving Day.
39:09 Tracy V. Wilson? And I request that both Thanksgiving Day, November 26, 1942, and New Year's Day, January 1, 1943, be observed in prayer, publicly and privately."
39:22 Tracy V. Wilson? This new federal law still did not resolve all the conflicts about when to have Thanksgiving, though, especially in years when there were five Thursdays in November rather than four. The next time that happened was in 1944, and that year, eight states observed Thanksgiving on the fifth Thursday rather than on the fourth. The number of states doing this dwindled over the five Thursday Novembers that followed, and today, all the states are aligned with the federal law. Presidents and governors do still issue Thanksgiving Day proclamations, though, and you can read all the presidential ones at the website of the Pilgrim Hall Museum. Who knew Thanksgiving was so fraught?
40:07 Tracy V. Wilson? Who knew that changing the date of Thanksgiving would lead to one being compared to Hitler? We should know, because that's how it works. That became a rule on the Internet many, many decades later. Yes. Do you have listener mail that's about turkey and cranberry sauce, and, most importantly, stuffing or dressing, whichever you like to call it? It is about none of those things. Boom. It is about a mystery that has now been solved during our Behind the Scenes mini,
40:45 Tracy V. Wilson? in which we were discussing the bank robbery, the Bank of Pennsylvania robbery of 1798, and we were talking about where the key came from. And I mentioned reading a book as a child in which someone made a key by making an impression on a bar of soap and then whittling it out of wood. Tanya has left a comment on our Facebook that has said, "The book mentioned by Tracy is 'The Great Brain at the Academy' by John Fitzgerald. His brother Tom makes a key by pressing it into a bar of soap and whittling a copy." Thank you, Tanya, because I remembered that this had something in the title about a brain.
41:29 Tracy V. Wilson? And that had led me to The Magnificent Brain, which is a different book entirely. It had specifically led me to the sentence, "The magnificent brain concocts a recipe," which is like one chapter title of one book. Clifford B. Hicks was a children's book author who wrote a series about Alvin Fernald, mostly in the 1960s and 70s, but also a little later. And one of them was called Alvin Fernald, Foreign Trader, and that is where there's a chapter titled, "The magnificent brain concocts a recipe." Having come up with the slightly wrong magnificent
42:13 Tracy V. Wilson? brain versus great brain meant that I just was finding only results that were related to something else. Yep. So, thank you so much, Tanya, for solving that mystery for me. That is definitely for sure the book that I was thinking of. If you would like to send us a note, solvety mysteries that we've mentioned on the show recently or in the long past, I don't know. We're at [email protected] and you can subscribe to our show on the iHeartRadio app or wherever else you like to get your podcasts.
42:51 Tracy V. Wilson? Stuff You Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
43:05 Tracy V. Wilson? Deanna Flores is a flag football star, a trailblazer, an entrepreneur, and now host of a new podcast. In Born to Become with Deanna Flores, she's sitting down with people from every corner of culture to find the whole person behind the public identity. Every episode, you'll get to know Deanna, her guests, and even yourself a little better. No lectures, no know-it-all hosts, just real people being real. Listen to Born to Become with Deanna Flores, out now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Created in partnership with Geico. You ever show up late to the game and your friends already? Saved your seat, your drink, even a plate? That's looking out. That's having your back. And that's exactly what AT&T does with the AT&T Guarantee.
43:47 Tracy V. Wilson? They know staying connected matters, so they actually guarantee a network that comes through when it counts. AT&T has connectivity you can depend on, or they'll proactively make it right, just like that friend who takes care of things before you even ask. AT&T: Connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.com/guarantee for details.
44:12 Speaker 04 Livrite, publishers of John U. Bacon's New York Times bestseller, The Gales of November, a chronicle of the S.S. Edmund Fitzgerald's 1975 shipwreck. "Never has it been told better than by Mr. Bacon in this colorful book," writes John J. Miller of The Wall Street Journal, while author Hampton Sides proclaims that it's destined to be a classic. The Gales of November, now in paperback.
44:40 Speaker 00 This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.
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